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Podcast Episodes

The Juicebox Podcast is from the writer of the popular diabetes parenting blog Arden's Day and the award winning parenting memoir, 'Life Is Short, Laundry Is Eternal: Confessions of a Stay-At-Home Dad'. Hosted by Scott Benner, the show features intimate conversations of living and parenting with type I diabetes.

Filtering by Category: Dexcom

#593 Grace Bonney

Scott Benner

Author and T1 Grace Bonney is here!

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 593 of the Juicebox Podcast.

On today's show we have grace Bonnie grace is the author of the best selling books in the company of women and Design Sponge at home. Bonnie is passionate about equity inclusivity and supporting all members of the creative community. She founded Design Sponge, a daily website dedicated to the creative community, which reached nearly 2 million readers per day for 15 years. The blog is actually closed now, but it's been archived by the Library of Congress. Pretty cool. Grace was diagnosed with type one diabetes as an adult, we're going to be talking about that we'll talk about her life, about being creative about whatever, you know, whatever questions come up in my head. That's kind of how this always goes. Right. We'll talk and then I'll say something and she'll answer and you'll have a good time. Please remember, while you're listening that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise. Always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan, or becoming bold with insulin. You can find Grace's latest book collective wisdom, lessons, inspiration and advice from women over 50 Wherever you get books.

This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by Dexcom, makers of the Dexcom G six continuous glucose monitor, find out more and get started today@dexcom.com forward slash Juicebox Podcast is also sponsored by Omni pod makers of the Omni pod dash. You can learn more about the dash and whether you're eligible for a free 30 day trial at Omni pod.com forward slash juicebox. There are links in the show notes and links at juicebox podcast.com.

Grace Bonney 2:06
My pets are all downstairs so they should leave us alone.

Scott Benner 2:10
Just as we were getting ready. Arden comes home. And she's got a friend with her. And it's her like it's not her loudest friend. It's their second eldest friend. So I like I ran down the stairs were like, yo, yo, stop. Like, what am I like, you gotta keep it down. I'm like, I'm working. And I know they look at me and they're like, aren't you an adult with a podcast? And yeah, your kids are reading you. I love it. I'm just like, shut up. And I'm trying to do something here. I went back. I was there anyway. Just introduce yourself real quick so we can keep talking?

Grace Bonney 2:43
Sure, sure. Hi, I'm Grace Bonney. In a former life, I ran a blog called Design Sponge all about design. And I just wrote a book called collective wisdom celebrating a really diverse mix of stories all from women between the ages of 50 and 106. I also have type one diabetes,

Scott Benner 3:00
how long have you had type one?

Grace Bonney 3:02
This year will be five years I was diagnosed when I was 35.

Scott Benner 3:06
Wow. So to catch everyone up on the a couple of minutes that we talked to each other before we push record, a grace gets on and says you know, I've been like following you since your blog. And I didn't know that because she's on the show through like a PR person. So like that was like, great. She like struck me very strangely. Right that I didn't realize that this what you were gonna say you use you read my blog? Yeah,

Grace Bonney 3:31
my endocrinologist recommended your blog. Like that's, that's how much of an industry standard you are. I mean, that was when I started using a Dexcom. He was like, You need to read this. This is the place to read things. Yes. It's a parent and a child. I know you're an adult, but this is like the gold standard go here and he was right.

Scott Benner 3:51
Oh, I think I should think better of myself.

Grace Bonney 3:57
Yes, you are. You are the gold standard blood recommendation for the Weill Cornell Medical Practice in New York. Yes.

Scott Benner 4:02
Thank you to them. Do you get that? I don't know that about myself.

Grace Bonney 4:07
I think most people don't know that about themselves. I think in my like previous life when I ran Design Sponge, that was something I heard all the time people who are like, oh, so and so knows of you and what does it feel like to have so many people know you? And that's like, I don't I find that's not the reality for most bloggers, like I think we are usually by ourselves at home. And so it all feels a lot smaller. But I actually I really enjoy that. I'm glad it doesn't feel as big as it sometimes could.

Scott Benner 4:33
I think it's actually necessary. Because when you see people fall into those traps, where everything that's said on the internet impacts them so greatly, you know, I don't even think twice about like, I got a note last night privately from a woman and she's like, Can I get your opinion on low carb eating? And I was like, Sure, and I said, I think people should need to, I think people should understand how to use insulin, and then they should eat however they want after that, but you should understand how to use insulin. Before you do it, and then she kept pushing me for a better a different answer. I'm like, I don't understand what you want from me. She's like, Well, have you ever? Have you ever considered it? And I was like, I guess not. No, like I said, But, you know, Arden tide is a kind of eclectic way of eating, you know, one day, it's like a wedge salad. And the next day, it's, you know, nachos. And, you know, like, she kind of goes all over the place. And I know I never have. And she said, I'm so sorry to push you for your opinion. It must be hard to give your opinion in public. And I said, that's my whole life. Like, I don't even think twice about that, like everything, I think is public. You know, like, and so that took me by surprise. I was like, No, I'm not guarded at all about this stuff.

Grace Bonney 5:42
I, I think a lot of bloggers are quite guarded in every genre of blogging, mostly because I think we're all so used to copious amounts of feedback, both positive and negative. So I understand the concept of that for sure. But I think if you're blogging in a way that feels, I hesitate, hesitate to use this word authentic. But I think if you're blogging in a way that people tend to really connect with, it's because you are sharing things that you really feel about everything. Because when you kind of like take that out of a blog, or any type of communication, I don't know, it's just to feel like less personal. And I think we're all looking for something kind of personal to connect with. Yeah, I

Scott Benner 6:21
believe that if I, if I started guarding myself, because I was afraid I was gonna say or do something that some group of people would disagree with, then the whole thing would be inauthentic. And what would the point be?

Grace Bonney 6:31
Yeah, I mean, I always try to consider like, different communities that, you know, my words might feel differently when when it hits their ears. But I think when it comes to stuff like that, I mean, that's a lived experience. I feel like, speak speak to what feels right for you.

Scott Benner 6:45
Yeah, I agree. I have to say to that, and this is where this all comes back around. It's just as we were pushing record, I was gonna say to you that that I my writing of my book, years ago, really is part of the reason how the podcast happened. And, and so, but the reason I don't think about what people say about me online anymore, is it's because of the book reviews.

Grace Bonney 7:10
Oh, don't read them.

Scott Benner 7:13
So here's what happened to me, I'd never written a book before. And then the first five professional reviews come in, and they're really amazing, like, to the point where I thought to myself, I didn't charge enough for this manuscript. I obviously have a natural talent that I wasn't aware of, and I've undervalued myself, and, and my publisher, the guy that was handling me through the whole thing, he says to me, he's like, Man, listen, it's gonna happen, someone's gonna hate it. So hold on, you know? And I was like that, and I was like, How could anyone hate it? And then Oh, my God, like the next one. I almost couldn't pick myself up off the floor after I saw,

Grace Bonney 7:48
I have so much empathy for that I have just basically forced myself to stop reading reviews. And instead, I mean, I get feedback no matter what I do, usually via like, Instagram or something. And people have no problem telling me exactly how they feel. And I've gotten to a place now where I feel quite comfortable with that. And I can tell if it's feedback that really should be taken to heart or if it's somebody just looking to like, unload about something. But yeah, it's it's tough. I don't I don't even bother with Amazon reviews, my wife writes books as well. And she reads all of her Amazon reviews. And I think that is bonkers. Because it's just people who for the most part, really just want to let loose because it's kind of anonymous. And, you know, people on the internet can be wild.

Scott Benner 8:29
It taught me that if I wanted to do this thing, like say something out loud, in a place where it just anybody could hear it, that I couldn't go back and care what they thought of it. Like I just had to do the best job I could with it, and it would land on them how it would, and that that part was out of my control. Because this first bad review. This person hated me. Everything, the words the order I put them in, you don't I mean, like it was just my thoughts in general. And I was like, how could the first five people have liked it so much? And then when they started coming back in or like they were, you know, back and forth? I love it. It's fine. It was good. It was at least a quick read that one. You know, because that one felt like, oh, well, it wasn't great. But at least it wasn't so complicated that it took a lot of time. And I was like, Oh, geez. You know, but now I don't care. I mean, I don't want people run around saying bad stuff about me, but I don't care anymore.

Grace Bonney 9:27
So it's a it's a very particular skill to hone to be able to sift through what feels like something that is important to take in and what feels like something that's not because when I learned that, I think I learned it by just shutting it all out. And then I was completely unable to accept even compliments that were legitimate from people I cared about in my community. And now I figured out how to balance that a little bit better. But I mean, that literally took me like 17 years of being behind a blog to be like, Okay, I It's okay to take some of the good stuff. It's important to take some of the bad stuff but Most people, I mean, if it gets personal like that, I think that's when you represent something to them that is very much not actually you that they are like hinging it on you and I had that happen to me a ton, I had someone who turned out to be like a professor at a very, very prestigious school in Illinois, write a whole blog about how you would punch me in the face if you ever saw me. And I felt like, wow, like that's a blog about houses really, really got to you, buddy.

Scott Benner 10:28
But you know, that was upset about something else.

Grace Bonney 10:31
Exactly. Yeah. That's, that's what it and I don't mean to discount criticism, because sometimes it's really important. But that things when they get really personal, what it feels like, it's about you as a person, I'm like, You don't know me, you can't you can't critique me as a, as a human,

Scott Benner 10:44
I will tell you that like two years into the podcast, I got like a very passionate email from a woman who was just like you were talking too much. And I read it. And on your own blog, it was about the podcast.

Grace Bonney 10:55
And on your own podcast, it was a

Scott Benner 10:59
podcast, I just like if I don't talk, it's not a podcast anymore. But then I listened to what she said. And over the years I have, what I realized was, is that my desire for to be interesting. gotten the way of me being able to let your thoughts breathe sometimes, because not everybody's used to being interviewed. And so they take a little longer to get the things. And if people back then if people took too long to get to their thoughts, I could hear a voice in my head being like, hurry up, shut them down, move on, you know what I mean? And, and, and I don't do that anymore. So

Grace Bonney 11:33
I totally identify with that I started podcasting a long time ago, because I was terrible at interviews. And I was like, I need to throw myself into the deep end and find my way out. And that's when I realized a editing is your friend, because I still have that voice that's like, this is taking too long. Why are they taking five minutes to and like, I still have that voice in my head. But I know a that I can edit out really long pauses if necessary, but that also people don't feel listened to if you're kind of Yeah, you know, cutting them off.

Scott Benner 11:58
I figured it out the only person now I can't have that good of a conversation with this, my wife.

Grace Bonney 12:04
I think our spouses are always exempt from most of those roles.

Scott Benner 12:07
But everything else, everyone else I'm really good at talking to anyway. So my favorite, we'll move on in a second. But my favorite bad review for the podcast makes it just it actually warms my heart because the person hates me, but loves the content, the content so much, they have to listen. And I'm like, Oh my God, I feel like a win every time. I say I used to have it on my desktop as my screensaver because it was amazing. Cuz she was just like, the guy sucks. The podcast is great. And every time I saw it, I thought hmm, you know, I

Grace Bonney 12:36
am the podcast, right? So listening, listening,

Scott Benner 12:40
it was just it's my favorite one ever. Okay. How old are you now?

Grace Bonney 12:44
I am 40

Scott Benner 12:45
you diagnosed when you were 35? Was that out of the blue? Did you have any autoimmune in the family?

Grace Bonney 12:51
I have now since realized that I do. But I come from a I think very traditional Southern family that just nobody talks about anything, especially things that are unpleasant or scary or health related. So once I was diagnosed and felt completely blindsided by it, I kind of dug into my family history and realize there was actually a very known history of diabetes that just nobody talked about. So it knocked me for a loop. But I think now and I've kind of forced my family to speak more openly about hereditary health issues. It's it's there. So it makes sense. In hindsight, it just didn't, then it's

Scott Benner 13:27
just like, on the level of Uncle Tom has the sugar or

Grace Bonney 13:31
Oh, the sugar? Oh, I can't, you know, it was it's everybody in my family is like very deeply southern. And they were all like, oh, so and so had the sugars. And it was a thing. And that was it. But nobody talked about it even that, and I don't even know if it was type one or type two. I don't even know that matters. But it was really interesting to kind of ask people to talk about stuff. And how many people would just say like, I don't know, no, like, it doesn't matter. Like, it doesn't matter. And it does matter. And I think it's really important to talk about health stuff really openly. And even if nothing comes to pass hereditarily it's important to be prepared. So I wish I had known those symptoms. Yeah,

Scott Benner 14:06
would have been nice, right? I just the way you just said that. One of the more delightful things. I've done this, this just listened to this week, just so and so has the sugars. And it's a thing. That's it and we just don't look don't look at him. He's sweaty, don't worry about it. So who did you go to first with this, like, was your mom

Grace Bonney 14:28
to talk about where it came from or to get diagnosed?

Scott Benner 14:30
No need to talk about where it came from

Grace Bonney 14:32
like my dad because my dad has type two and I was originally misdiagnosed was type two. So that became that was a discussion with him about how that came about. I think we both had a ton of internalized shame about like, Oh, this is our fault. We brought it on ourselves. This was before I understood the hereditary components of type two as well. And I asked my dad if anybody else in our family have this and he was like I don't think so. And then like a week later who wrote me an email Almost like Oh, actually I found out, you know, great aunt blah, blah, blah had this and then I think my grandmother had this, but nobody ever talked about it. But they all died like, you know, the terrible cliches of like, you know, someone lost a foot or something. There was a lot of that. And I was like, How can nobody talk about that, especially just in the way of trying to protect us from those terrible things happening again, and I just kind of got a like, a shrug and a face. Like, why don't we talk about that? So, you know, a lot. A lot of my work is undoing family patterns of silence, but it's, it's very southern.

Scott Benner 15:31
Yeah, no kidding. Okay, so 35. I mean, that's, in my mind, that's almost past the age where you think anything's gonna go wrong. Right? It's,

Grace Bonney 15:41
I mean, I've done so much research now into later in life diagnoses. And it's fascinating how many people are diagnosed like in their 60s and I, when I announced it online, on my old work platform on Instagram. I heard from so many people who said, like, my mom, my dad, my grandparents got it, like in their 60s and 70s. And they, you know, also were misdiagnosed because it's so overlooked. And the GP that I went to, at the beginning stages of my diagnosis. Even after I came back with a diagnosis for type one, when I sought further advice, he said, Oh, do they still actually think you have type one because that's impossible. Adults don't get it. And I was like, I really think you should perhaps, like, update your medical. Like, this is a problem. And I've since switched doctors, but that doctor insisted there was no way I had it. And I was like, Okay, well, I don't need to go to you anymore. What part of the country was this? I live in the Hudson Valley in New York. So like two and a half hours north of New York City?

Scott Benner 16:37
I see. I don't think it matters where you go, you're gonna find people Yeah, I I'm always compelled to tell people that a friend of mine is a doctor. And he has he has an age cut off for doctors that he'll see for himself.

Grace Bonney 16:52
I mean, I found myself through eventually found like an incredible endocrinologist in New York City that you know, travel two and a half hours to to see a couple times a year, who's like a Doogie Howser type like incredibly young, he also has type one. And I find having a doctor with type one has been a game changer, because he is so up on medical tech, he's up on advancements in every type of medication, possibly related to type one. And so that is a real gift and a huge privilege. But I think even the more I live there, when I was first diagnosed, there was a six month waiting list to even get in to see like one of three endocrinologist within three hours of me. And I was like, This is nuts. So that's why I went into the city and was like, well, it's not hard to find somebody there. But that's been worth it. Because I think the awareness of technology is really important, because that's a huge part of this.

Scott Benner 17:44
I really take your point, because I think that I mean, within reason I'm sure you could stumped me on something. But I think you could come to me and ask me any kind of functional daily question about diabetes. And I could either answer it or figure it out. While we were talking about it.

Grace Bonney 18:01
I I constantly tell people who are newly diagnosed to find a season the type one diabetic, because they will probably know way more about this than any of your doctors will. And then especially if you are someone who is a woman or who was assigned female at birth, like the lack of information the medical community has about how type one affects women is fascinating and depressing. And my doctor who I love is still kind of like, oh, well, I don't I don't know why that happened. And I was like, well, could that be related to hormones or like something else in my cycle? And he's like, Well, maybe. And I'm just like, oh, wow, we don't we don't really study this very

Scott Benner 18:38
much to your girls are confusing to me.

Grace Bonney 18:41
Yeah. And so I've, you know, it's interesting to speak with other people who have type one who kind of just done that research on their own. And I learned more in like the first six months of my diagnosis from just other random people on the internet who had type one than I ever did all the original doctors I saw.

Scott Benner 18:59
Three nights ago, I was getting into bed and I look at Arden's blood sugar before I go to sleep. And I looked at it, I thought, ooh, it's trending lower than it has been for the last three days. And I texted her, I'm sure she loves this. I texted her, is this the first day of your placebo? And she said, Yes. How did you know that? And I said, I can see it on your CGM. So we're gonna knock off your Basal a little bit overnight. And that was it like, and I could just tell from? I mean, it just, I don't know how to put it like I pulled up the Dexcom graph. I looked at it. I thought about the last three nights prior. And I say, oh, oh, she's getting ready to get her period. And she's not on the hormone now. So here's what's about to happen.

Grace Bonney 19:41
It is it is really fascinating. In general, the medical community cares very little about women's bodies and how hormones affect them. But it is it's very unique with type one and I think it's it's been important to me to reach out to just a wide range of women to talk about all the different ways that that can affect things, especially women who have had Children that's I mean, that's a nightmare to navigate.

Scott Benner 20:03
Did your did your professional, like some of your professional life lead you to think that do you believe? Because you're I mean, you seem supremely interested in talking to women. So yeah,

Grace Bonney 20:13
that's a big part of what I do is I, I find the best research. And obviously, this is like, qualitative and quantitative research. But I really like doing anything that involves talking to a wide range of really diverse people from different backgrounds, different identities, different parts of the country, just to see how that affects their experience of something. And that's been, that's everything. I did a Design Sponge. That's everything I did with this new book, collective wisdom. And it's how I figure out everything, it's like, let me ask a large amount of people who may have had a slightly similar experience to mine, and to see how that was different. And if I can learn anything from it. And if I do, how do I share that with other people. And so I have like a running email and sort of dem chain going in my life of people who are newly diagnosed with type one as adults. And just I have like a huge FAQ sheet I send everybody that's just cold from all of those kind of informal interviews over the years. And I'm really grateful for it because I still have friends who have type one whose doctors just do not take anything seriously and just don't even care to check in. So I think it has to be kind of a community led thing as I'm, as you will understand. Yeah,

Scott Benner 21:19
I, as you're saying that I thought that is kind of how I think of the podcast now. It's just a it's a list. inable FAQ list.

Alright, I'm just gonna type in here dexcom.com forward slash juice box, see what I get? Blue. It's a pretty web page. It says that you could make knowledge your superpower with a Dexcom G six CGM system. I find that to be true. It goes on to say, now with the Dexcom G six continuous glucose monitor. Wait, that's not what it says at all. Oh, hell, I can't read. Let me just tell you, the Dexcom G six continuous glucose monitor does something that is just amazing. It tells you what speed and direction your blood sugars moving in. So the number your blood sugar's 131, let's say and it's moving down has little arrow, and the arrow represents a speed. So you can see 131 moving down two points per minute. As an example, that is valuable information. You can set limits on your app to tell you when you get to a certain number. For instance, I get notified when Arden's blood sugar goes past 70 like on the way down, or when it goes above 120 On the way up, you can pick whatever numbers you want. This way, you can make management decisions when you want to, and not just arbitrarily like oh, I'll test again in an hour and a half after I eat or something like that, you can actually say, I'm going to make a Bolus here for this meal. And if I should get over 140, I want to know, if my blood sugar starts dropping quickly, I want to know that too. It has alarms for like, you really should go to the page and take a look dexcom.com forward slash juicebox. The Dexcom G six is FDA permitted to allow for zero finger sticks. It has customizable alerts and alarms, smartphone compatibility for Android and iPhone, you can share your data with up to 10 followers. That's pretty legit. It also has Siri integration, and so much more. You can take the next step with Dexcom. When you go to my link, and click on get started with Dexcom G six, the Dexcom G six is at the heart of every decision that we make with my daughter is insulin, and I think you would love it dexcom.com forward slash juicebox. I'm going to tell you a little story now that is 13 years old. My daughter was four and we didn't want her to start school without being on an insulin pump. So we went to this insulin pump that on the thing that our hospital put on and in front of us on a table where all the available insulin pumps, and the Omni pod caught my eye immediately. tubeless it looked different. It looked better to me. I thought at the time, like I didn't really know the difference between tube and tubeless it just sort of made sense that it would be better not to be attached to something then to be attached to something. And so we started with on the pod on that day. That was Wow, geez. 2000 I don't know maybe eight. I'm guessing 2008 That makes sense. Yeah, because Arden's been using it for like 13 Oh geez. 2008 plus 10 is 18 2020 Yeah, that sounds right. She was six years. No, she was four years old. Wow. Sorry. This is getting confusing and not selling any on the pods on the pod.com forward slash juicebox here's what you can do there, you may be eligible for a free 30 day 30 day 30 day supply of the Omni pod dash, you should go find out, you could ask them for a free demo. So you could try a pod on and see what you think. And on the pod promises, geez, the music's coming, and I'm gonna have to talk past the music, I apologize. Omni pod has something called the Omni pod promise. And here's what it is in a nutshell. You can start with an omni pod dash today or start with Omni pod today or whatever. And you don't have to worry about missing out on the next big thing. So if you're a person who's thinking right now, well, I do want an omni pod. But I'm waiting for the next big thing that they do. I don't want to get started now. Because I get I'm afraid I'll get stuck with whatever I start with. That's not true. Omni pod promises that you can update to their latest technology as soon as it's covered by insurance terms and conditions apply. But they promise on the pod.com Ford slash juicebox telling you it's one of the best decisions we've ever made. Head over and take a look. There are links in but I can't talk tonight. Hmm, there are links in the podcast. Oh, boy. Let's try one more time. There are links in the show notes of your podcast player and links at juicebox podcast.com to Dexcom, Omnipod. And all of the sponsors. I am sorry that you had to suffer through that. Really?

Grace Bonney 26:21
I mean, absolutely. That's what it oh, wait, does that sound show up on there? Sorry. What happened? I didn't hear any sound. Oh, okay. I'm sorry. For some reason, my school email just popped up. That's fine. Like not that

Scott Benner 26:31
well. No. So I want to go backwards then a little bit. So yeah. I don't know if this is gonna seem reasonable to you. But like, what was your first adult job?

Grace Bonney 26:40
Hmm, that's a good question. What was my first adult job? Um, I guess technically my first job over 18 out of I worked in college. But I guess after college, I worked for a record label, which was terrible. But I thought it was going to be like my entree into the world of the music scene. And I was so excited. And then I ended up hating it and worked for a really small label in Brooklyn, New York, that was a subsidiary of Atlantic Records. And they randomly took on Mike Gordon, who's the bass player from the band fish, and I was at the time a recovering hippie. And so they assigned me to that case, and I will just say that working, working anywhere near the band fish cured my desire to ever work in music again. I left the music world and got a job in PR primarily for a company that covers you know, furniture and design brands. And then from there, I started my blog Design Sponge, which was all about home and design and the creative community. And from there, I just kind of did projects, as I was interested in like, I did some books and some magazines and a podcast. And I did that for 15 years. And then I closed that down. I guess about two years ago now. Yeah.

Scott Benner 27:50
So okay, so I understand. I understand the PR thing would you go to college for

Grace Bonney 27:56
I went to NYU for two years and study journalism, hated it. And then transported back to a school in Virginia Call William and Mary where I'm from. And then I majored in fine art, both of which, what am I going to do with that, and but I ended up like, with building a blog that was all about writing about the creative community, I ended up kind of making a mash up of both of those majors. And I'm just, I have an only child, and I was raised to be like, quite self sufficient. And so I think I realized that both of those kind of half degrees weren't going to serve me like super well. So I would have to figure out something on my own. And I did I think I was quite scrappy in those early years. And you kind of have to be living in New York, like, how are you going to pay rent, everything is incredibly expensive. So I was always freelancing, like five different things at once to try to just stay stay out of debt, basically. And it ended up working out I think I was like, in the right place at the right time with the right content. And that's kind of a blog, you know, unicorn when it happens. And it allowed me to do what I loved for 15 years, which was awesome. Yeah,

Scott Benner 29:05
isn't it? It's such a an amazing feeling. Because I launched my blog, I think in 2007, at the very beginning of 2007. And there were there were I found out later, two or three other diabetes blogs at that point, but no more.

Grace Bonney 29:20
Really, I didn't even know there were that many seven there were

Scott Benner 29:23
definitely were there were carries George's Scott's mine. I think those were kind of like the first and then. But then after that in the years that came after, at some points that were up to 5000 type one diabetes blogs. And he had no idea. Yeah, you just come to realize like it. It's it had I started later, it wouldn't have mattered like it would like the niche would have been filled already, I guess. And you could come along and do great work, and maybe better over what people are doing. But it wouldn't matter if you come in at the wrong time. It's all timing.

Grace Bonney 29:57
It really is. I think most bloggers don't want to admit that but I will fully admit that like, I incredibly benefited from being an early adopter, including with like social media, like I remember setting up, like Instagram accounts and things like that before anyone thought that that was worth anybody's time. And, you know, being being somewhere first, or at least being a part of the like, early crop of adopters has everything to do with the way a brand can grow.

Scott Benner 30:21
You'll you maybe you won't laugh at me. But the other night, I contacted someone who does my podcast hosting. And I said, Should I be putting this podcast on substack? And he goes, what? Like, no one has asked us about that. And I was like, Well, I didn't stay in this game this long. By by asking after it's happening. I'm like, I'm wondering now like, is that something that can be done or not? I don't even know if I want to do it to be perfectly honest. But like, is it possible? And he goes off to find out and I was like, okay, because that's not you don't wait for a thing to become anything to jump on it. It's too late. Yeah.

Grace Bonney 30:57
Yeah, very true.

Scott Benner 30:59
So So Design Sponge, how long did it run for 15 years? And that's like a legit. I mean, I've been through your I've been through this site, which is closed now but still available to people? Is that correct?

Grace Bonney 31:11
Yeah, it got archived in the Library of Congress, but we're leaving it open for a few more years. So it's still accessible online. And I think I lost track of I think it's like 18,000 posts or something. It was at its height. I think we had like 20 writers. But for the most part, it was like a core group. There's 10 or 12 of us who wrote

Scott Benner 31:31
grace, you are in the sticks in New York, aren't you? Yes. Can

Grace Bonney 31:35
you Sorry, can you hear the fire?

Scott Benner 31:38
Fire siren? Yeah. calling, calling the volunteers to the firehouse?

Grace Bonney 31:42
Exactly. Yes, we live like six houses down from our fire squad, which at first when we bought this house, I was like, Oh, we've made a huge mistake. But we have had fires very close to our house. And I very much appreciate them. Now although this sound. The first time my parents came to stay with us. This happened in the middle of the night and it does sound very much like a tornado siren. And my mom just got up grabbed all of her jewelry. Stairs. So I I'm quite accustomed to this. I will stuff in a second. But yeah,

Scott Benner 32:12
your mom just passed you with their pearls in her hand looking for the baby. Also, just like what

Grace Bonney 32:17
nice story was she bringing with her? But yes, that was she was also like, forget everybody else. I'm out. I don't know where she thought she was going. And you guys. Yeah, but I'm very used to it. And they're people who live right across the street from that, which is quite intense. But um,

Scott Benner 32:31
I grew up in a house that was I could have hit the firehouse with a baseball, and they had this giant, it was an air raid siren on top of it exactly rotated while it was going off. So it would like it would just come around to hit you in the face with sound and then it was numbing actually

Grace Bonney 32:49
it is I drove past it the other day right as it went off and it set off the the like alarms on your car that are for like a like Blindside. The detectors it just like started beeping like there was something and it hit force the brakes to hit as if something was in front of me. And it was just the sheer like volume, or the vibrations of that noise being so close. And I was like, Ooh, I believe this is quite loud.

Scott Benner 33:13
So does so I'm sorry. I got waylaid there by that bite. So Design Sponge is a is a business. I mean it it employed people it kept you floating. Why does it stop? Eventually?

Grace Bonney 33:25
I started on purpose. I think the simplest answer is that the blog model has changed. And I'm curious, I don't know if your this has been your experience within your niche as well. But the model of sponsorship became incredibly problematic. I mean, we benefited probably the first five years of having advertising on the site where it was fully the blog Writers Market. And we could charge whatever we wanted. And it was those were great years. And then I think like it tipped somewhere around like 2009 2010. And advertisers got organized, they completely changed. They formed these networks, they force people into certain rates. And it's kind of been downhill ever since then. And at least in my particular niche, the amount of content that was required for increasingly less and less money. It just didn't make sense to me. And you know, I thought about like getting VC money. And that, to me is just inherently not my vibe, because everything has always been kind of scrappy, and DIY with me and my team. And I had some friends who also had blogs for you know, over 10 years who all just said like the industry is really changed. And that's totally fine. It just wasn't for me anymore. And I think that kind of influencer market has taken over now where it's like very much about the person behind the blog. And for me our blog was very much about what we wrote about not who was writing it. So I think we all just kind of sat down and I was like this doesn't I just feel like we've kind of had our time why don't we leave the party? Well, it's still fun and we're still happy so we we announced it and then didn't actually close for six months on purpose so we could kind of have like a homecoming few months. like revisiting some of our favorite posts or favorite people, it gave my team time to all work together to find new jobs and make sure everybody was settled and stable before we closed. And I'm really honest, I think it's the proudest thing I am of that site was just that a we employed people and supported them, and that we closed in a way that allowed people to find even better jobs. So I feel really good about that.

Scott Benner 35:23
Yeah, I so I never, I didn't take ads. In the beginning. I just, I had this very interesting idea that I didn't, my wife worked. And it didn't take up all of my time. And I wanted very desperately for people to be able to trust me. And I thought that if I put ads on it that would take away from that somehow. And so I just, I went along like that I turned to ads now for a long time. And then I'd say 2013 2014, I started realizing, like, people don't read anymore the way they used to, like, people were complaining about blog posts being long at like, 500 words and stuff like that. And I was like, wait a minute, what is this? This is short, like, how do you want me to get a thought out here and, and I just, I realized things were like going the way of buzzfeed quizzes. And I was like, this isn't gonna work. And you know, I've said this on here before, so I'll be really brief about it. But when I wrote the book, I ended up on the Katie Couric show. And I'm on a panel with all these stay at home dads, because the book was about being a being a stay at home dad. And when it ended, she just grabbed me by the shoulder. And she's like, you're so good at this. And I genuinely grace. I didn't know what she was talking about. I, I got a car service to New York, I was wearing a spank shirt, I can barely breathe. I was just thrilled to be on television. I didn't know what it was going to do for my book, which by the way, didn't do anything for the book. Like that didn't happen at all.

Grace Bonney 36:49
You're not alone. That is a very accomplished TV bump is gone. Yeah.

Scott Benner 36:52
Nothing. Nothing at all. Actually, the I'll tell you what helped the book the most in a second. But I genuinely looked her in the face. I said, I don't What What are you talking about? Like, what am I good at? And she's like, You didn't feel that she's like these 500 people were waiting for you to talk. She's like, they stopped caring what the other three people thought. And I have to admit, I made I recognize that I made people laugh a couple of times on purpose. And I was like, I didn't feel that she's like, you're very good at communicating with people. The only reason I thought it make a podcast. When when when the bogging was going away, I thought, Oh, God, I'm going to lose my blog. It's over. And then I thought, well, Katie Couric said I was going to talking to people. And that was,

Grace Bonney 37:33
that should just be like your blog banner at the top. So just say Katie Kirk's that I'm good at talking to keep

Scott Benner 37:37
hoping she'll hear this. Because I also get something for her online content, where I told the most inappropriate story at CBS News studios, which they completely cut out of the interview. But later producers told me that people were watching on their computers privately, but they weren't going to put it in the piece. That's funny. So yeah, so anyway, that's the only reason i That's why I made the leap. Because I just thought I gave a very, I mean, I always call it like a fat kid mentality. But I just think if I'm good at something, everybody's good at it. Like I don't, I didn't have a ton of self confidence growing up. And so hearing somebody telling me that this thing that I just thought was, I don't know, I thought everybody could do this, you know, and, and to find out that that might not be the case. And then I mean, it's blown up from there, whatever the blog used to be, the podcast is like, times a million. Yeah, really is interesting.

Grace Bonney 38:32
It can be a really nice place to like, figure out what you like about yourself, what you're what you're proud about, I think it's a kind of a nice idealized way to think that we all figure out the parts of ourselves that we like by just listening to our own voices. But sometimes it helps to have other people pointed out and I think that's, that's something that I definitely learned from blogging was skills that I didn't know I had, that I'm now quite proud and happy to have. And I'm now that I'm in, like, in my post blog life, and I'm in grad school to become a therapist, and I'm realizing that these skills, you learn blogging, you actually have like, many real world applications that are that are great. And I thought like, after I closed my blog, it was like, the hell am I going to do? Like, I have these very weird Nishi set of skills. But I think as I'm sure you're finding to like learning to be a good listener, and to be curious about other people, that's that's a really valuable skill.

Scott Benner 39:24
Yeah, I didn't know but I'll take it because to your point, I'm, I'm what I was saying earlier, is like, I never took ads on the blog, because I didn't need to, but when the podcast became popular, and it ate up all of my time, I thought I said to my wife is actually my wife. She's like, that thing better make money or you better stop. And I was like, okay, you know, so I started taking ads, and it really it's become a real business now, and yeah, I didn't expect that either. To be perfectly honest. Yeah. Maybe one day I'll be a therapist. This await so Hey, hey,

Grace Bonney 39:58
I really I mean, I'm quite interested in focusing on like medical settings, and particularly working with families like whose children have gotten diagnoses and like how you process that and how the family adjusts to that? Because I think there is this very interesting niche of like, I think, in particular, and families who have kids that are diagnosed with chronic diseases and illnesses, like, it's super challenging, and there aren't a lot of people who understand that, and I think your blog in that community speaks to that, that need for understanding and connection and information, basic information. And when it comes to the therapy world, it's the same thing like nobody ever sits down with the entire family and goes, Yes, it's just your child that's been diagnosed with this, but this is going to affect all of you. And let's talk about how we integrate that how to, you know, make sure everybody's voices heard, but how to like find your new version of normal. I think that's a that's a very important niche of just general support system that's a little lacking right now.

Scott Benner 40:52
Yeah, we handle that by the medical community. And people in general, we handle that about as poorly as we handle everything else. Like, exactly, we just act like the thing that's being said, you know, the loudest, the most important piece you have diabetes now, is the only thing that needs to be spoken about. And it just, it doesn't work that way at all.

Grace Bonney 41:11
It changes everything. I mean, it really, it's like your entire life is up ended. And like when I was properly diagnosed, someone referred me to think it's the Niomi berry diabetes Center on the Upper West Side in Manhattan. And it's mostly for children. And I went as a 35 year old and it was I felt very weird there. And even that I thought was like, Oh, well, all my prayers will be answered, they will have every bit of information, every bit of tech, I will understand everything, even in that setting, which I think is one of like, the best settings you could be in. Still, I came away with so many questions, so few answers. And I was like, I'm an adult, like, you don't need to water this down for me, like, tell me what I need to do and not do. And they still just like, would titrate information to me. And I was like no, like, treat me like an adult. I would like all of the information. But they really still kind of like gate kept a lot of stuff. And I found that incredibly frustrating. So I don't know if that's it's just something I'm curious about. And this stage of life is like how to better support families where there's a diagnosis of some family member that will affect everybody. Well, how

Scott Benner 42:15
did you, I want to understand how you decided that you wanted to be a therapist, so and how far along are you in that process?

Grace Bonney 42:22
I'm in the first year of three years, just feels very long, but is very, I'm loving it. It's very cool. I think the probably the last six years of Design Sponge, I became far less interested and the stuff we were writing about. So I didn't really care about like furniture, products, even houses anymore. I just I didn't care about any of the things that were the main reason that I started the blog, I became way more fascinated by the people. So wanted to like really ask the families in these home tours, like really deep personal questions. And I started a podcast so I could have these more nuanced conversations with entrepreneurs in particular. And then I got really interested in like, what are some of the big societal issues that affect entrepreneurs, and even even like furniture industries, like we don't think about furniture and design being connected to political stuff, but it very much is and sort of having these like more in depth conversations and was getting so much out of them and felt a sense of connection that I hadn't in a long time. And I started to realize, like, Oh, I really want to sit and listen to people. And when that goes well. And when you've created a space where someone feels really heard. That moment is so important. And therapy has been a huge part of my life for like the last 10 years. And I realized like, Oh, I think these skills I have from Design Sponge of listening and being curious and non judgmental about that could actually really come in handy. And so working on this most recent book that's just come out now collective wisdom, in the process of interviewing, you know, 107 people about their lives. Many of those interviews took on the feel of like a therapeutic session, because we were talking about really personal, very vulnerable life moments. And the fact that they all trusted me with that I think gave me the confidence to finally apply for grad school and take the leap. And I'm really glad that I did because it feels like a really exciting new chapter where I imagined it as like, Oh, I'm throwing away everything. I did a Design Sponge, but no, like, those skills have been a very clear thread into this next chapter. And that's a really nice feeling. Yeah,

Scott Benner 44:29
I interview somebody almost every weekday. And it's crazy that you're saying this because yesterday, I'm not lying yesterday, I interviewed a 25 year old girl. And in the first kind of 15 minutes of our conversation she felt a little like nervous. So it's trying to I was trying to ease her into it. And then I started picking away at like she seems anxious like this maybe is this like her her normal level and started talking about it and going through it and asking and, and instead of just keep driving the conversation back to diabetes. I just started asking more questions about that, hey, look, I can ask is like, you know, your mom and anxious person and your dad. And then we figured out who in her family was anxious, figured out that she relates to her mother over anxiety, like they both run out to like fear porn, the news and then run back to each other, you know. And by the time we got done, she's like, this was like therapy, I feel great. I was like, Oh, cool. And then she sent me an email this morning, thanking me for it. And I was like, wonderful. Like, it's, I'm glad you feel better. And she had ideas. I was like, you know, maybe stop, like, stop watching the news for a week and see what happens, you know, like, we just, they're not any grand ideas. They're just things that won't come out in your everyday life, talking to the people who are always around, you know, and I leave those conversations very energized, my daughter makes fun of me when I come out of here. Because she's like, you're

Grace Bonney 45:54
really, I totally understand it's there. I think especially in this kind of internet life we all live now, you know, the connections you make with people online are very real, I don't discount those at all. But there is something different about being able to like really connect with someone one on one, and to have someone feel safe to maybe share something that they haven't before. It's just, it's a really nice, it's a really nice feeling. And it's not like there isn't, there is there are plenty of therapists in the world. For the most part, I don't, I'm going to be you know, one of 10 million white women practicing as a therapist. But I also really have gotten into figuring out alternatives to therapy as well, because I don't think talk therapy is for everybody. It's incredibly expensive. And I've been doing a ton of research and like private group therapy and support groups and peer to peer counseling. And, you know, at the end of the day, I kind of came away being like, Yes, I think therapy and licensed therapists are a really important part of any support system. But I also think sometimes just talking to somebody who is really listening to you, has the same effect. And I think that's what it sounds like you experienced and it's really meaningful.

Scott Benner 47:00
I can't tell you how much I've taken from making this podcast. It's, I used to say a lot more than I do now. But if the podcast helps you, it helps me way more. I know that might be hard to imagine, but it does so many different things. For me, it's a time capsule about diabetes for my daughter, it's you know, and helping people makes me feel amazing. And so there's like that part for me. You know, a lot of people don't get to make money doing something they enjoy. Most people don't. Yeah, right. So there's no end it has the added benefit of actually helping people.

Grace Bonney 47:35
Yeah, it's it's really like to be able to like service journalism has always been where my heart is like, how do you provide information of any type, it's actually functional for people. And that matters a lot to me. And I find myself even doing that. Now, in grad schools. I'm constantly like, building websites and blogs for people in my class just to be like, oh, let's let's gather all this information that's useful for other students that could be helpful. Let's gather resources and find like a clever way to display them that are fun that people will actually use. And I think if you're somebody who really enjoys sharing information, like there's there's an endless amount of ways to do that. And blogs and podcasts are a really, really fun and very accessible way to do it.

Scott Benner 48:15
Oh, okay. I'm sorry, we got pretty far away from this. So you got diabetes five years ago? They thought you had type two at first. Yeah, very common. They they said, Oh, you're too old, which I've had people on here in their 60s who have been diagnosed for the first time with type one. That's a myth. But only five years ago, do you leave with good technology?

Grace Bonney 48:36
Oh, no. The first appointments? Absolutely not. Um, I even will I was, I was diagnosed with type two. I think I lived with that for like, maybe a month or a month and a half. And they sent me home with metformin, which like destroyed my stomach. And I felt terrible. I was eating like just salad and constantly running. And I could not get my numbers down. And I couldn't figure out why. And I felt terrible. And I kept losing tons of weight. And I went back to my GP and I was like, it's not working. And he was like, well, obviously, you're lying about what you're eating, then I was like, Nope, I'm not lying. I would like to fix this, you will not find a more dedicated patient than me, like, come on. And a friend of mine who has a son with type one, because parents of kids of type one are the greatest resources ever. She said like Grace, I think you need to go get your C peptide test and see if your body's even producing insulin like I don't think you have type two. So I went and found an appointment at Weill Cornell in the city, not with my current doctor, but with a different doctor in the practice. I just walked in the room and he was like, I don't have time to look at you. Which at the time I felt quite comforted by that I now realize it's like a little bit of fat phobia and you know, thin people can have type two people who are heavier can have it now. I don't think all that is quite as connected as people tend to think it is but he immediately like gave me a blood test. I think like a day later he called he's like, Hey, you have type one like you should really like find some resources for that. they referred me to the Niomi berry Center in Manhattan. So I went there, they told me about all my tech options, but said I wasn't ready for them, which I found problematic because I'm not a little kid, like I'm an adult, I can very much adjust to these things more quickly. So I ended up having to find another doctor, I think like a month later, who was the endocrinologist I use now, who I found through a friend of a friend of a friend. And he was like, Oh, absolutely, like, if we can get your insurance to cover at least part of this Dexcom like, you need to do it. And I had a real hesitancy at first, I was like, I'm gonna feel like a robot hate this. And I did hate at first, but it helped assuage, like the fear I had about going really low overnight. And I think once that was solved, and once it helped me really figure out how my body responded to everything from food to movement to hormones. It just felt invaluable. And now, I haven't gone I think more than a day without a Dexcom since then. And while it's incredibly expensive, and I think it should be more accessible. The tech part is just massive for me. Like I don't even know how I managed things before that, because it's just so confusing and requires so much testing. So I'm really grateful for it. Although I have not made the leap to a pod yet. I just feel like I'm not. I don't I don't know that that's for me. But I'm, I know a lot of people who really love it.

Scott Benner 51:19
So you're doing MDI with Dexcom? Totally. A lot of people do really well with that. Yeah. Were you married at the point when you were diagnosed?

Grace Bonney 51:27
I was, yes. How

Scott Benner 51:29
did that impact your relationship? Or like, How involved is your wife get with that kind of stuff? Because you're an adult? Like, you don't? I mean, are you like, help me Are you like, leave me alone.

Grace Bonney 51:40
I crumpled like a wet blanket when I got diagnosed. I mean, I had a pretty traumatic diagnosis of like, nothing was working, my GPA was a total jerk. And he kept saying, I was lying about everything I was doing. And that's why nothing worked. And then he immediately said, like, you know, this is gonna cut 15 years off your life. Why would you say that? But he told me that, and I panicked, I lost it. And I just, I spent like, at least two weeks just being like, well, there goes, rest of my life is gonna be terrible. And Julia is my wife is best. She's just the best. And she went into like crisis mode and was like, Alright, let's get all the books, let's do all the reading. Let's figure it out. I read every book ever. I unfortunately, read a book that like advocates and incredibly stringent, like keto diet, and I thought that was the only way to manage anything. I look back now. And that was just way too intense for me. But she went along with it immediately and was like, we're cleaning out the house, we're getting rid of all the things you can't eat, we're only going to stock things you can eat. She writes about food and as a very good cook and used to be a private chef. And so she took care of food without even asking a question. And I think, aside from somebody, I mean, I would say she probably has a familiarity with type one that you do. Like, she is very aware of everything my Dexcom was attached to her phone. So whenever I'm away or go on a trip by myself, she's super plugged into all that. So I literally could not imagine how much harder this would have been without her like she did. I didn't even have to say anything. She just was like, This is us. We're doing this together. How do we do this? And, you know, I think that at some point, and probably a very long time ago, she really needs support of her own. And I'm always trying to find better support systems for spouses and parents and people who live with this because it's very stressful. And it comes with a lot of anxiety. And, you know, I'm always trying to support her to get the support she needs because I know that she can't maybe complain to me about how stressful it can be or how scared she was about, you know, a particular low that happened or something like that. So I think that people who live with people who have type one deserve their own support as well.

Scott Benner 53:48
Hey, listen, I'm going to ask some. You said a lot of really thoughtful things. And this next part is not going to seem thoughtful. But is she really tall? Are you short?

Grace Bonney 53:58
I am short. I'm five feet tall. I think she's like five foot eight. I think I think of her as tall but I think if everyone is tall compared to me, you approach her first. No, she wrote me an email after I wrote a coming out post on Design Sponge and asked me out and we got married four months later. Wow. Cuz

Scott Benner 54:16
I was gonna say good job if you got her.

Grace Bonney 54:21
Incredibly lucky she did well, too.

Scott Benner 54:22
That's not what I'm saying. But I just like wow, did she just like, she's got that like she's very statuesque, and like those women are sometimes hard to approach. Do you know what I mean by that?

Grace Bonney 54:34
I don't know that. I approached that the same way. But I am quite lucky to be married to her and she is very much my favorite person on the face of the earth.

Scott Benner 54:41
My wife is tall. And she said that when she was younger, she could see boys just look at her like taller than me. No. And then they kind of like Pastor by because of that.

Grace Bonney 54:53
That's so interesting. I don't know if that applies to women who date women in the same way.

Scott Benner 54:58
I wouldn't. I can see the point. Yeah, I yeah, I didn't care. I was like, look how tall that girl is. This is great. My kids are gonna play sports. That's what I thought. Anyway, good job. You're welcome. Congratulations. But that's very cool that she's got that knowledge. So does that work out dated? Like, does she follow you on Dexcom? For example,

Grace Bonney 55:23
I don't I mean, these days, no, she's not checking in, it's still on her phone. But like, we're with each other most of the day. So it's not that big of a deal. But like when I closed Design Sponge, I wanted to take a trip by myself to kind of clear my head. So I took a two week trip to Alaska. And I was very much like, off the grid for portions of it. I just by myself, but that was that was very scary for her as well as my mom. My mom is much less involved and doesn't really under suppose my parents, they don't understand most of this with type one. But Julia was like, very plugged in. And we had plans about like, when I check in, like what we would agree, I would like let myself ride a little high numbers wise, the whole trip just to feel safe. And I did, and the plan worked. And I felt really proud of myself, I didn't have any scary numbers, like I was driving for hours and hours through the Kenai Peninsula without cell phone service without any place to stop and get support. So she was like, please, like, take this really seriously. And I did. I packed I had plenty of snacks and treats and, you know, was very responsible about it. I think that trip was actually really important to me, because I I, I struggle with feeling afraid of my own body because of this a lot of time. And that trip helped me like, take a little bit of control back and realize like, yeah, if I plan ahead, I can do just about anything I would have done before. I don't know that I would feel safe to do like, a giant thru hike or something for like weeks on end. But that felt doable. And I'm glad I did it.

Scott Benner 56:50
Can you tell me the difference between feeling like an attack could come from within versus like you were a woman alone driving through Alaska, like, which were you more concerned about

Grace Bonney 57:01
the attack from within 1,000% I probably should have been more concerned about the other one. But again, it wasn't like hiking on my own. I was like sightseeing in a car. And I think I think as a small a smaller statute, like person I, I always am quite aware of my surroundings, and who's around me and where my exits are and all that sort of stuff. But that's just like being a woman in the world. And so I was very cautious of like, Where's My Car? Who's near my car? Like? Or do they know what hotel I'm going into. I vetted all of my Airbnb with people who live locally, which was really smart. And I made sure I knew somebody on the ground. At every major city I stopped in, I didn't actually know anybody personally who lived there. But through the internet, and people I knew who were bloggers or makers or creative people of some sort, I found people ahead of time to be like, Okay, this is the person I'm going to know, while I'm in Anchorage, this is the person I'm going to know, while I'm in Homer, or wherever, and I had people to be in touch with who knew to like check in or that they expected me. So you know, I think if you're a woman traveling alone, these are things that you like, constantly plan ahead for. And I think diabetes actually prepares me very well for that, because I just I don't leave the house ever, without like planning and making sure I have stuff that I need with me.

Scott Benner 58:20
You know, the checking, the idea of checking in with virtual strangers would have struck me oddly, up until this year, when a family who listens to this podcast put me and my son up for a couple of days in Seattle, when I just I was stuck. And I didn't know what else to do. And I asked online if people knew about a place I could stay. And they just offered. And we did it. Yeah, that was really one.

Grace Bonney 58:39
Yeah, there are certain communities through which I will trust more than I would normally. And I think I did, I found people through my type one community who were in Alaska, which was great people through like, the LGBTQ community that I'm a part of I found and I just felt like I inherently trust these groups of people a little bit more than just somebody who I knew through Design Sponge in general. And that came in really handy. It also just gave me people to like hang out with which was nice. But that was I think I've always wave more afraid of like what my body could do to itself work could happen to my body than I am from something on the outside.

Scott Benner 59:17
So I have a delicate question. Do you guys ever talk about having kids

Grace Bonney 59:21
type one wouldn't stop me from from doing any of that interesting question in that I think we live in an incredibly ableist society that views people with chronic illnesses or disabilities or any diseases as like, Should we do this? And, you know, I very much function under the belief that most people in society will experience a disability of some sort probably way earlier than they anticipated. And I know plenty of people who have chosen not to have kids or who have gone through certain steps of fertility and then maybe opted out of it because of things that have you know, popped up And I don't know, I think as someone who lives with a disability I, I have a really big problem with that I think everyone is totally entitled to make their choices with their body. Absolutely. But I think society sends people a message that somehow that's like a damage or something. And, you know, you actually have to consider what you can't afford to deal with as in terms of like medications and things like that, because that's a very real expense. But it's also just the risk of having a family, there's 10 million risks that come with having children. So

Scott Benner 1:00:31
I asked that question a lot of people, because I'm always interested by how they answer and people fall into camps, obviously. Yeah, but usually type ones will say, like, adult type ones will say like, well, it's no big deal, because they don't see it as a big deal in their own life, where if they do, yeah, then they talk about, well, maybe we wouldn't, because it's their struggle, they're projecting on the next person, which I think is part of what you were saying, which is people Yeah, trying to manipulate the outcome of life, I guess, to some degree, you know, they mean,

Grace Bonney 1:01:02
and it's just, it's frankly, inaccurate to assume that most of us won't have something go wrong with our body at some point. It's just not like an American culture, that's just not we project, the idea that you could have this body where nothing ever goes wrong. And that's just not true. And it's funny, like most of my friends who are moms who have kids with type one, they have gone out of their way to foster adopt support kids that have type one who don't have that type of understanding in their life. And so I've just never known anybody who's who has avoided that so much as people who have opened their arms even more, because they understand what that is like. And so I don't that that's just been my experience of the type one community and maybe I've just fallen into a particularly welcoming subset of people. No,

Scott Benner 1:01:47
no, I think you're probably right. It's just I think it's where along in the process, you are, like, I know that I, my wife, and I talked about having three children. And when our son was diagnosed as our second kid, we were like, okay, like, but that we were just really overwhelmed. Like, yeah, I don't think I could have taken another baby. Even if it didn't have diabetes, to be perfectly honest. At that point. Would I be scared to have a baby that had diabetes? Now? I only because I'm 50. And my back hurts. But other than that, like, you know, no. Yeah. So yeah, I agree with you. I just I'm I love to hear people talk. Talk their way through it.

Grace Bonney 1:02:23
Yeah. I think disability rights and the way we talk about ableism in America is something I really, really care about. And I just get really weary of people. I think, just I think it's something to be delicate with. I'm glad you said it was a delicate question, because it is a delicate question. Like, I think people who especially live with more visible disabilities, like get disgust as if those are things to be avoided. But I think the actual question is just like, do you feel prepared to take on the inevitable risk that is becoming apparent because any number of things could happen to kids? And in addition to type one, and, you know, some people handle that better than others? And it's always a challenge. Yeah. And I think differences

Scott Benner 1:03:05
in general, just, they do well to be you do well to be exposed to them, you know, like, Yes, right? Exposure just creates normal, you know, normal feeling for you. And then you don't have those weird, like, that's not, you know, quote unquote, right? Whatever it is, when you look up at it, and it's just something you haven't seen before, is all we were talking the other day, my daughter's one of my daughter's really good friends moved out of town. And so this girl's Indian, I would say my town's probably about 15 or 18%, Indian, and then she moved to a different town that was heavily Indian and not a lot of Caucasian people. And I asked her what the difference has been like, and she said, it's funny, I don't have a lot of Caucasian friends in my new place. And I said, why not? And she goes, it seems different there than it did here. And I said, why? And she was, I don't know, I think they feel like the minority. And I think that's why we stay away from each and she's, she's 17. She's having this whole big conversation about she's like, but I don't have one white friend, she told me for my new school. And and I said, Do you miss it? And she goes, yes, and no, you know, but, but. But as it's happening, I watched my daughter who grew up in a pretty mixed place. And she doesn't understand why any of this would be important. Like she doesn't care what people look like or what color they are vice, you know, sexuality. None of it matters to her at all. And then I just think that that the same can be said for everything. You just need to be around things till you're comfortable. Once you're comfortable. You know, you'll probably stop having the same questions you had before you were ignorant about the things you didn't know.

Grace Bonney 1:04:43
Yeah, and it's I mean, I never blame ever individuals for people struggling with questions related to differences and I mean, I know this statistic only because I just finished a huge final project on this for school. I did my like, kind of final project. This year on disability rights related to therapy, and like 60% of America lives with a disability. And it's just disabilities that we don't typically acknowledges disabilities. Because I think when we think of that word, we think of like people with physical, quite visible disabilities. But a lot of chronic diseases are in that category, including type one. And so I think if we treated differences to quote unquote, differences as the actual norm

Scott Benner 1:05:29
Yep, you froze. Gray super Frozen. Frozen, frozen, frozen. gratiae. Really frozen? Yeah, you're, you're coming back now.

Okay, can you hear me? Yes. As the norm.

Grace Bonney 1:05:50
Okay. Okay. All right. Should maybe I should leave my camera off, is that make the signal better?

Scott Benner 1:05:55
I don't know. We were great. Right up until then.

Grace Bonney 1:05:57
Okay, cool. It's probably just rural internet. I think what frustrates me so much about the way our culture likes to handle people who are slightly different is that we like separate people. And we make it seem as if those differences are like, minorities, or are like, so rare specialties or special needs. And all of that hate that, like, far more of us have something that is different, or, I don't know, something that is just considered by mainstream culture to be, like, less than desirable, but we actually all have something like that. And if we actually connected with those things, and saw them as widespread as they really are, I think we would have more of the support that we need, because instead we kind of go like, Oh, that's not desirable like that disability is a problem, I'd rather like, find a way to get that out of something. And I don't know, I just I'm very much a fan of like, making people realize how much like differences are actually the norm.

Scott Benner 1:06:53
I think of it as like a light switch culture where people don't want, they just want to go to the doctor and say, there's something wrong with me, give me a pill, I want this to be over or tell me what to do. So it can stop. And maybe that thinking permeates a lot of different things. You look at something that's different, that's different, just get away from me, I don't want to have to learn about a new thing. I just want my happy little cycle to keep cycling through.

Grace Bonney 1:07:18
I mean, our culture is terrified of death. So I think that's why we all like in every trickle down version of that. It's just people being like, how do I keep that away from me, I don't want to be close to that I don't want to be close to anything that reminds me of sickness, or death or disability, like it's all just definitely push away. And I think it will be a lot less scary if we actually just like, let ourselves learn more about it. And I mean, the more I've learned about type one, the less afraid of it I am the more I've learned about every disability that I have friends who live with like the less afraid I feel, and I just wish people could feel that sense of connection that I think a lot of people in the type one community have with each other. It's just it's a really valuable support system.

Scott Benner 1:07:58
About three months ago, my mom found out that she had cancer, she's 79. And it's, we think contained pretty much in her reproductive organs. And so took a couple of weeks to find out what was going on. And she just kept during that time telling me like Scott, I just want to know what's happening. And honestly, gracias, I don't care what happens. I just want to know what's happening. That was kind of her mantra that she found out. And she said, Well, I'm gonna have the surgery. And I was like I said, Mom, it might be really, like, painful, like, you know, are you sure? And she's like, I'm gonna go down, I'm going to go down swinging. And I was like, Alright, I said, Okay, let's do it. She's now five days out of surgery. Like she's just or it's coming up in five days, I should say, and she has not changed her tune at all. She's just like, if she's it, she literally sat next to me and said, Listen, if I die during the surgery, okay. I was like, Oh, what is that clarity come with age or something? You know, like, like, she's just like, yeah, she's like, big, but if I don't do anything, I'm gonna die anyway. And it's gonna happen soon. And so let's try and she doesn't if it works great. And if it doesn't, all that I tried. Yeah. Wow. Like, but none of that like, no matter how much you talk to her unless she's very good at hiding it. The fear of dying is gone. Like she just has clarity. It's very interesting. So

Grace Bonney 1:09:26
it's, it's something that I think does come with age. It's like, it's why I wrote this book that I wrote, because I really wanted to sit with people who have had the privilege of living, you know, to be 7080 90 100. Because I think with that age comes just a sense of clarity. I don't have a sense of ease. I don't know what that actually comes. I think there's still there's still fear, there's still anxiety. There's still things that feel overwhelming, but I think you have lived through enough that you start to understand that you can't change most thing, all you can do is change how you respond to it. And that was a lesson I really took away from working on this book was that like, Okay, I need to stop worrying about like, what if my diabetes progressives to this what if it causes this other condition? Like, all of these things that I think I sometimes spiral about? And if we just take a minute to be like, Yeah, most of those things are inevitable. Like, as you get older, things start to break down. It's just what bodies do. And sometimes that happens earlier than with other people. Like I did an interview the other day, and this girl said, oh, you know, do you consider yourself middle age? And then she stopped and said, Well, you're not middle aged, you're 40, you have until you're 50. Then I stopped. And I said, I'm actually going to push back on that, because everybody's life expectancy is different. And so I think if we assume that, like 45, or 50, is the given like, we may not be factoring in people who just live with other conditions that can affect that. And I don't know, I've really learned to kind of make space for thinking about this sort of stuff, because I think it does make the big things a little more manageable, maybe not less scary, but more manageable.

Scott Benner 1:11:08
I'm always very touched when older people who have had diabetes for a long time, just talk about how grateful they are to be alive in general. Yes,

Grace Bonney 1:11:17
I mean, he's not that old. But I think about Victor Garber all the time, a because I loved alias, and B, I didn't know he had type one until like six years ago. And I like sought out all these interviews with him about like, what it was like to grow up in a time where there were no resources or technology or anything like that. And it's just, it's a completely different thing. So to be alive and have type one, and to have a body that's still mostly functioning. That's amazing. And I find that like, I hate the word inspirational. I think sometimes that like is a little patronizing. But I just really appreciate that there are those voices in that community. And I wish we actually highlighted them a little bit more in the type one community in favor of like, young, famous people like the Jonas Brothers or whatever, I just, I really think it would be nice to hear from people who, like, have some road behind them when it comes to dealing with this.

Scott Benner 1:12:07
Somebody just asked me today if I was gonna ask a famous person to be on the podcast. Like, I don't really care. I just I'm like, I don't know. Like, I don't care. But in the very first year of the show, so episode 43 is with Victor Garber.

Grace Bonney 1:12:23
Oh, my God, I have to go back and listen to

Scott Benner 1:12:26
how good I was at this six years ago. But I remember having a so I can tell you my Victor Garber story, which is, I got him set up. He was filming something in Vancouver. It was coming up on Christmas. I was very new at all this. We had this amazing conversation. It ended. And I realized that I had recorded my voice and not his.

Grace Bonney 1:12:49
Oh, I have made that mistake. Okay, I feel for you. So I have been there. I had

Scott Benner 1:12:54
this phone number of this like vacation home where Victor Garber was with his husband. And I just was only supposed to ever call it once. And that was the end of it. And I call back and I said, Mr. Garber, this is Scott. We just and he's like, Hi, what's wrong? And I told him and I said, I'm so sorry. It's not going to come out. I apologize. It's completely my fault. And he goes, I'm very busy right now, but I will find time and we'll do it again. And he did and he was lovely. Like, really? Really? He

Grace Bonney 1:13:20
seems so lovely. I know. Like, I try not to put people on pedestals because they're humans, but like, I just really love him. He just seems so. So kind. I

Scott Benner 1:13:28
mean, he just he left Canada as a team to be in show business with diabetes. And he just just went like, it's it's fascinating, but not not the point. The point is, is that I you will probably listen to it. And Victor Garber will be great. And you'll think, oh, wow, Scott has gotten better at this. He is terrible. But I've done like, 600 of these. And a lot. Yeah. And I am definitely starting to catch my rhythm. Like just very recently, I think. So I'm sorry, we got away from it for a second. But your your book, I just was looking at it. And it's already like jumping up like it's selling very well already. Congratulations, only been out for a couple of days.

Grace Bonney 1:14:09
Oh, thanks. Yeah, I'm really happy with this. But it's the most personal book I've ever done, where I didn't talk about work. I didn't talk about people's entrepreneurial skills or what they make it was more about like, what have you lived through? And what has that taught you? And what did you wish, you know, and how is your idea of happiness changed over time? Because that was my my real curiosity because as I get older, I'm what I need and what matters to me. It's constantly shifting. And I was just so curious to ask people like what that looks like. And I think because I interviewed women, the majority of the book focuses on women from like, quote, unquote, marginalized communities and women of color women with disabilities, queer women, and you know where you come from and, and what community you come from really shapes how you view the world and even time and I was so so moved by how people were just like, you just have to slow down, like everything about the culture we live in right now is telling you to rush. And that is a horrible idea. And I finished this book, and I felt so much calmer, because I felt like yeah, all the things I'm afraid of, they're not going to go away. But I can try to think about how I respond to them and not respond in a way that is so full of like anxiety and get this off of my plate, like everyone was like, these fears just keep coming up in different forms. Like, you'll always be afraid of death, you'll always be afraid of illness, it's just what we've like been raised in. So just learn to approach that with a little bit less anxiety and know that it's a given. And I think that people who live with type one, have a particularly good understanding of that. And I think being aware of the ways that things that are scary, are constantly woven into the things that are also wonderful and joyful. Like that, to me is like the meaning that comes with getting older, as you get to see those places where joy and fear and pleasure and pain are all like very much overlapping each other all the time. And that like sense of poignancy is what I really took away from this book.

Scott Benner 1:16:15
Yeah, I'm 50 now, and I would say that you get as much time as you get, there's no way to know how much time that is, you should be living your life and enjoying your time not spending your life worrying about getting more life, which is no matter how much older yet you're still gonna have that, like that, that voracious desire to like, I need to be healthier, so I can live longer. And instead of doing mean, it's like you're, you're wasting the time you have worrying about not having time. It's an oxymoron. It doesn't none of that makes sense. These ideas meet with each other completely. And yet, that is what people do.

Grace Bonney 1:16:58
Yeah, I mean, that's what American culture does. It's what predominantly white American culture does. And that was what was so nice about I interviewed a lot of women who were Asian, or who were indigenous. And those communities in particular, have a very different relationship to aging and to death. And those are things that are discussed. And, you know, it's revered, and look forward to getting older. And I think that was so interesting, and nice to see, because I felt like the only option was to always be afraid of getting older. And I really clearly see now that to get older is a huge privilege. And it's not something that we should be afraid of. And there are so many people who don't get the opportunity to get older. And so I wish our culture would kind of expand our understanding of what aging actually is because those people are not only wonderful resources for all of us, but we are also resources for them. And those of us who are younger, absolutely have something to offer people who are older and vice versa. And I think

Scott Benner 1:17:58
we don't know, we stay in our groups a little

Grace Bonney 1:18:01
Yeah, it's that siloing again, it's what like all giant oppressive systems do is just like separate people constantly. And because, you know, those, those oppressive systems get more control when we all feel alone and afraid. And that's part of what I loved about this book was I wanted to remind people like No, no, we all have so much more in common than we do that our differences. And if we just ignore the systems that say, younger people, and older people don't have enough in common to be friends, we would all actually build community because at the end of the day, every single woman in that book agreed, the thing that made getting older, easier, and more meaningful and more and with more joy is having people around you that you cared about. And so I think it's never too early to start building community and people with type one have a particular skill, I think that we have learned the importance of having other people around us who are not just support systems, but who understand our experience. And so that really, really hit me hard with this book was like, Oh, these are all women who realized what really matters is the people you spend your time with, like, how much you have, what your house looks like, what your car looks like, like, you know, none of those things really matter. Like, yes, money matters. You need money to live and to take care of yourself. But when it comes down to what will matter when you're like 90 years old, if you're lucky enough to live that long, and you're sitting on a porch and you know, just taking in the day like who's there with you? Yeah, that's that's what matters the most.

Scott Benner 1:19:29
I think that the entire focus of my life now is finding a place to retire that is central to both of my children and seeing how much time I can spend with my wife. Before I go, like I really got so much more about it than that. But I can see how growing up, it was segmented into like, you know, meet each other. Be Young. stay stuck to somebody make a baby raise the baby, make money, make money, raise the baby, raise the baby, the baby needs money, the baby's gonna need more money when it gets older. And now you're old, try to try to hold on long enough to give the kids the rest of the money you're trying to make before you die. Like that. That's literally how my life was set up. And not by anybody, honestly, just but like you said, like the machine, the system, how it works. And then yeah, we and we just missed each other. Like really think too. I don't see very many people who aren't in my quote, unquote, like, leg of the race, I guess, you know, which is a shame. But I do my best to stay connected. I listen to my kids music still. Even when I don't like even when I'm like, like, I look at my son. I'm like, Who is this? He's like, it's Dave East. And I'm like, Okay, I'll try it, you know, and then I'm like, I like Davies. And but I don't like it for the same reason. He likes it. I always talk about the quality of the guy's voice and my son's like, What are you talking about? Like, voice is so deep? Don't you love it? And he's like, I don't know, that part. I hear the beat. I was like, I don't care about the beat. And so, but But yeah, you to be connected to other people that have these ideas. And, and, and these life experiences that you don't have a lot of perspective, you know,

Grace Bonney 1:21:15
that like, desire to stay curious about life is I think what keeps people feeling connected to life and a really important way, I was almost gonna say younger, but I think that's a little ageist. But I think that, like, everyone I interviewed was like, I asked them, How old do you feel internally, and most people said, like, between 40 and 60, even if you know, didn't matter how old they were. And those were the ages, they felt most of themselves. And that made me feel quite happy to know that like, you know, mainstream culture tells us our best years are behind us after like 25. And that is everybody interviewed was like that is absolutely not true. Like you really don't really get to know yourself and feel comfortable in that until you're much much older. And I really appreciated kind of the reminder that really good things are to come. And the more that you invest in finding the people that matter to you and trying to find more ways to connect with them. Like, the more you get to enjoy those years. And so, you know, I know that there are many members of my type one community, they will absolutely be with me, if we all are lucky enough to make it into our 80s and 90s, which I hope we are. Those people are friends for life, like we can get in fights and get mad at each other. And we still are there for each other. And I don't I don't have a lot of friendships like that. But I think when you have something in common like this, this disease in particular, like it really unites you in a way that's that's very important. Yeah, no,

Scott Benner 1:22:43
I 1,000,000% agree with you. And I will tell people collective wisdom, lessons, inspiration and advice from women over 50 is available now. I would imagine everywhere books are sold. I'm looking at it on Amazon, but other places, right? Yeah, they should definitely buy it. Because I'm gonna I'm, you know, I'm going to get it from my wife, who is a very head down, working hard white lady, who always tells me, as soon as this is done, then I'll have time. And she's been saying that for 30 years. So it's hard,

Grace Bonney 1:23:16
it's so hard to escape that it's really, it's really hard. And I imagine the level of anxiety and stress that you all have lived with adjusting to life with type one diabetes as part of your inner circle, like, that creates a certain level of pressure on parents that's like, that's very real, and, you know, makes a lot of sense that that would be something that feels like the thing to do,

Scott Benner 1:23:39
it definitely changed the course of what I thought my life was gonna be like. And absolutely, I never thought this would be. I mean, to look back 30 years ago, and to say that, you know, see me at 20. And if you would have pointed me and said that guy right there, he's going to talk to a lot of people about their health and their happiness, you'd be like, I think you're pointing at the wrong guy, maybe like there's no way you would have thought that was going to be me and but my, my I don't want to say journey because that sounds douchey. But my but my. But my journey has definitely led me to this place. And I am as happy with myself as a person now as I've ever been. And I don't even think I started becoming a real adult until, like 10 years ago to be to be honest. So

Grace Bonney 1:24:23
I think you're in really good company there. I think almost every single woman I interviewed for this book said like, you don't even know how happy you can be until you get to be a little bit older. Like, you can't really fully appreciate how complicated life is until you've lived just a lot of it. And I think most people are like, man, if you told me at 18 or 20 what I'd be doing it 50 or 60 I would have just laughed you out of the room. But knowing now how that actually feels to be that age like it's a form of wonderful you didn't even know existed and it's also so much harder than you even imagined but you know with age comes the understand I mean that you can take on much harder things than you thought you could,

Scott Benner 1:25:02
some of the stuff that I've overcome, it just keeps, keeps making you feel it even though you're older, you feel more invincible, I can't imagine something that could happen that I couldn't get through at this point. And, and I have to say this too, with a great amount of thanks to, you know, through my middle, the middle of my life, really. So my son is, oh, my God, my son, son was 22. So when he was born, I quit my job. I was a graphic designer at a credit union, and I quit my job to raise my son to stay home. And I had what I think most people would classically consider to be a female experience, raising children. And it absolutely changed me. And I mean, I'll tell you that it was about a year into it. When I started recognizing that there were things that my wife would have just kind of known to do that I struggled to understand. And that somehow by me not understanding it. I was stealing my son's experience and my wife's experience, because she wasn't getting to have it, right. So I was having it. And so now she loses that. And he loses her being with him. And I thought, well, I have to figure out what this all means and be that person. And so now I like the joke, Grace. And I don't think I'm far off. I'm basically too ovary shy of being able to give birth at this point. I'm almost a lady. You'd like I cry when the kids are nice to each other. You don't I mean, like I worry about the things that you would classically imagine that a mom would worry about? And I think it's enriched my life a lot.

Grace Bonney 1:26:38
Yeah, I mean, I think what you just described to me is that you are a human. And I think that you know, gender norms. And again, like large oppressive systems, like patriarchy, and sexism, just make you feel like those things are inherently female or male, but like, No, we are all full human beings with a complex range of emotions. And if we just stop separating genders, or even genders and drag it anyway, but like, if if you would stop separating people by these categories, like we could allow people to fully experience like, all of the complicated things that life has to offer. And I think what you experienced, is really wonderful. And I'm glad you got to have that moment of, you know, connecting with your son, and also connecting with some of your wife's experience. And I hope, ultimately, we will look back and see people doing different roles, and a family is not inherently gendered. But just like, what it takes to raise human beings. It's really hard and really complicated. And it takes people doing a lot of different things.

Scott Benner 1:27:33
You know, it just struck me as you were talking that now there are words for it. And I didn't have them back then. Yeah, socially. But I've been saying for 20 years, that there's no, that tasks aren't gender specific. You know what I mean? it the way I used to put it was like women don't love to vacuum. You don't I mean, and and men aren't thrilled about cutting the lawn. It's just sort of how it ended up, working over and over again. And in. And I didn't see it, when I could let go of the idea that I was doing something that I wasn't supposed to do, and just enjoy being my son's father. And in with the tasks that I had at hand. It's when I was I realized, like, none of this is meaningful at all, but I never attached it to anything, the way it's being spoken about now in culture, honestly. But yeah, it's the same idea. Really? Yeah,

Grace Bonney 1:28:26
we really, in the last 10 years, I think I mean, the last five years, I think have really, the terminology available to understand the human experience has gotten a bit broader, I think it still needs to be even broader. But I think that it, we have gotten options for things that just allow us to like more accurately name, those experiences, because it's so easy to grab, like a gender term or something. It's just related to like what we're told from larger cultural ideas. And when you have more specifics and more variants, you get to like actually describe something in a way that invites people in and I think, like, just connects us all a little bit more. I just, I think when we only have like a couple terms to choose from, you get put in these camps, and you just feel really separate. But especially with parenting, you want that experience to be as integrated as possible with whoever's raising your child or your children. And I'm glad you got to have an experience that gave you a broader range of feelings and tasks and that and your family

Scott Benner 1:29:24
definitely did so. Oh, cool. That's a great place to stop. I'm gonna let you out of this because you didn't think you we're doing this for 90 minutes so I'm sorry. I kept thinking like God she might have something else to do and I'm just holding her up.

Grace Bonney 1:29:36
Oh, you're fine. I'm wrapping Christmas presents.

Scott Benner 1:29:40
incorrectly. I should I be shot I should be shot. Oh god.

Grace Bonney 1:29:44
Oh, no, I only I only did it because I knew I would have exams and things later in the month. And I was like, if I don't do this now I just won't do it at all. And then I'll be that person that just, you know, forgot to do gifts. So

Scott Benner 1:29:56
he was walking around with a book going hey, here's my book.

Grace Bonney 1:29:59
I know I'm not that person I never do.

Scott Benner 1:30:02
It's a very people don't understand you don't give your book to people it feels it's a very

Grace Bonney 1:30:06
Oh yes. It never does not feel never ever, ever. Never.

Scott Benner 1:30:09
I just had somebody asked me to sign my book, which I wrote like, eight years ago, the other day. And I like picked it up. I thought, I haven't done this in a long time. Like I was, I didn't even know what I couldn't find the page. That was clear. I didn't. But it's surprising in my dentist's office.

Grace Bonney 1:30:27
I'd love that. Yeah, it's weird. I had a friend like order a signed copy. And when I was at a bookstore here signing copies, her name popped up, and I was like, Why did you do this? You know, me, I would just give you a book. But that's, you know, it's it's weird to be on that side of it. But it's also what a fun and unexpected feeling like writing a book is a wild process. And I'm glad we both got to experience that. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:30:48
You know, my son told me that during the six months that I took to write a book about being a stay at home dad, I was the worst data you've ever had. I was just like, I just I don't know, I got up in the morning and sat back down again. And just went and went and went. So I really appreciate you doing this. And thanks for having me. This was wonderful. So much. Yeah, of course. Can you hold on one second?

Well, first, let me thank Grace Bonnie for coming on the show. And for being so delightful. Thank you grace, check out her new book, collective wisdom, lessons, inspiration and advice from women over 50. I'd also like to thank Dexcom, makers of the Dexcom G six continuous glucose monitor and Omni pod makers of the Omni pod dash, and the Omni pod promise for sponsoring this episode of the podcast. Go to dexcom.com Ford slash juicebox. To learn more about the Dexcom G six and get started today. And to learn more about the Omni pod, go to Omni pod.com forward slash juicebox. See if you're eligible for a free 30 day trial of the Omni pod dash. Now see I hit that perfectly one try. I don't know what happened earlier. I was all discombobulated. That's pretty much it. Thanks so much for listening. I appreciate it very much. When you share the show, leave a great review. Don't forget to join the Facebook page Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes. I feel like there's something else I should be telling you. But instead I'm just gonna say thank you. The show grows when you share it. And it's really growing. Just the other day the show had the second most downloaded day in the history of the podcast. It's you know, finishing it seven years. So that's pretty impressive. What else? I don't know. Honestly. This is the part where I just feel like I should be thanking you for 20 minutes. But then it sounds like I don't mean it gets uncomfortable for me to say but I really do appreciate how fervently you listen and share. It means the world to me. I'm super happy that you like the podcast. And super happy is not a way an adult talk. So this is pretty much over. Bye. Oh, I'll be back soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.


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#591 Power Struggle

Scott Benner

Cynthia’s daughter is a teen type 1..

You can always listen to the Juicebox Podcast here but the cool kids use: Apple Podcasts/iOS - Spotify - Amazon MusicGoogle Play/Android - iHeart Radio -  Radio PublicAmazon Alexa or wherever they get audio.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT


DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:02
Hey Cynthia, how are you?

Cynthia 0:05
Hello. Good morning. Can you hear me?

Scott Benner 0:07
I can, but you're very squeaky. Why is that?

Cynthia 0:09
Okay? Hold on a minute. I'm actually just pulling into my work parking lot. Okay, because I'm gonna have to go right into work when I finish. So I'm gonna have better. Better service in just a second. That's

Scott Benner 0:23
fine. I'm recording this part, by the way, and it may stay in just so you're aware.

Cynthia 0:29
Okay, I am alright with them. But I'm trying to get my sound better. Am I Am I okay?

Scott Benner 0:35
You're not at the moment.

Unknown Speaker 0:37
Okay. Okay.

Scott Benner 0:39
Are you wearing a headset? I am. Is it Bluetooth? It is. Yeah. It's like it's not going through your car. Right? It's just from the phone to you.

Cynthia 0:52
But I'm wondering if it might be going to my car. I'm literally pulling in my parking lot right now.

Scott Benner 0:57
Take your time. Take your time. I'm having

Unknown Speaker 0:59
fun. We're gonna, we're gonna be okay.

Scott Benner 1:02
I have a ton of I have a ton of energy I haven't recorded in a week. So.

Cynthia 1:07
Oh, excellent. You've had a little bit of a break. Yes,

Scott Benner 1:11
that will either be great for you or horrible for you. We'll find out this.

Cynthia 1:15
Okay, that's right. So I'm parked. So now let me figure out my sound because I do think I'm going through my car. So let me get it on my husband.

Scott Benner 1:23
I appreciate the effort. I really do.

Cynthia 1:27
I know you're pretty picky about your sound.

Scott Benner 1:29
i It sounds like you're arriving an hour early for work so that you can sit in your car and do this and I appreciate that.

Cynthia 1:38
Okay, I am that is exactly thing so that I can do everything. Is that any better.

Scott Benner 1:44
Not only is it amazing, but the transition was kind of magical. And this is episode 591 of the Juicebox Podcast.

On the podcast today, I'll be talking to Cynthia she is the mother of a teenager living with type one diabetes. And while we're speaking to each other, if you would remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice medical or otherwise, I would really appreciate it further. Don't forget that. You should always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan or becoming bold with insulin. Have type one diabetes, or care for someone who does? Do you also live in the United States? Well, then I've got a little something for you to do. Head over to t one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox and take the survey, help type one diabetes research, help the podcast help other people living with type one, t one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox takes less than 10 minutes. It's completely HIPAA compliant and absolutely anonymous. Just one more music swell then we'll get to the program

this show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries. G voc hypo pen. Find out more at G voc glucagon.com. Forward slash juicebox. today's podcast is also sponsored by the Dexcom G six continuous glucose monitor dexcom.com forward slash juice boxes where you'll learn more and get started. There are links in the show notes and links at Juicebox Podcast comm to these and all of the sponsors.

Cynthia 3:44
So I'm Cynthia, I am the mother of a daughter who was diagnosed with type one at about 15 and a half years old. It's now been three years.

Scott Benner 3:55
Wow. So she out of the house.

Cynthia 3:58
She's not she's actually a really old senior. So she just graduated. Gotcha. Just in the last week.

Scott Benner 4:05
Oh, congratulations. Yeah, congratulations as you shift to spending an enormous amount of money to send her to college someday.

Cynthia 4:13
Exactly. That's right where we're at. So Superfish actually, I think she's actually going to stick around for another year and do the local school. So that'll be good.

Scott Benner 4:23
Excellent. I think that's amazing. I offered my son a large sum of money to go to a local college.

Cynthia 4:28
Right? Yeah, my other children didn't. She's my third. She's my youngest. And so yes, at least in this way. She's saving me a little bit.

Scott Benner 4:38
I don't imagine that people who don't have children, like I know it's, you think like, oh, college is expensive. But that's not it. It's you struggle to get through life, month to month a month. And then suddenly someone lays a bill on top of you. That is, you know, commensurate to your mortgage all you know what I mean? And it's every month there's no extra money coming in and somehow you Make it work where you don't like I don't know how you know where you're taking a ton of loans, right? It's it's a massive stress at the end of your life when your knees start hurting and you're like, Oh, I'm not even gonna make it. There. Yeah, yeah. And then they say, like, what are you gonna go to college for? I don't know, you're like, you don't know. You understand why they say that, but you'd like a little more good feeling when you're you're chucking your money out the window. So exactly. Anyway, are we gonna say her name? And maybe not. We don't have to your daughter? Yes. Yeah. My daughter. Okay. So she's your youngest of three. Are there any other autoimmune issues within the, the, the family,

Cynthia 5:45
not in our immediate family and nobody with type one, but it's sort of as you start looking, we're realizing that there are a lot of autoimmune and extended family. We've got some Crohn's we've got, like, lots of different things. Um, but no type one.

Scott Benner 6:04
You know, when Uncle Billy poops a lot, you don't think that 20 years later, and kids gonna get

Cynthia 6:08
it? Exactly. Right. We're just really

Scott Benner 6:11
go doing Thanksgiving all the time. I don't know. It's just always gone. And then you know, you're 20 years old, bringing your dad home? And who knows, you know, but it really is. I think everybody listening should do that deep dive on their family. I met a man this week while I was away. And he hadn't had this happen. Oh, we had to tell him that my son had a thyroid issue that kind of popped up out of nowhere, and that we gotten it worked out. And it made the man say, Oh, my mom's thyroid. You know, has a has a he's like, I don't know what it's called. She's like, but she takes medicine for her thyroid. And I said, Oh, are there any other autoimmune things in your family? And he goes, and he starts listing a couple things. And he says, I want my wife has celiac. And I thought, Do I tell this guy if he ever has a baby one day, and it pees a lot that he should check for type one? You don't mean? Like I had that? Right? You know? So, tell me a little bit about her diagnosis.

Cynthia 7:15
Um, well, she was sick for a long, long time. So she was a freshman in high school. And she was just going through a lot of feeling sick, and feeling super tired. So we actually had thought she was depressed. Okay. And so we were getting her therapy, she was really struggling in school, she couldn't stay awake, seeking lots of kind of different, not even ever once crossing our mind that maybe her blood sugar was high. And so she'd been to the doctor so many times. And then finally, one weekend did have all those telltale signs. And, you know, I had been doing a lot of googling for many months trying to figure out what was wrong with her. And it was very clear to me this one night, I think it was a Thursday night that I just was like, Okay, we're going to talk to you tomorrow, I'm going to tell him to check her blood sugar. Pretty sure she's got diabetes. So it was sort of a strange relief when she was diagnosed, because it was good to have an answer. And to think, Okay, now we've figured out all of, you know, our problems, and we're now it's going to be fine. And I so we wish that that was the case. But how long

Scott Benner 8:35
did that process take? I would say about six months. And when you suggested therapy to your daughter? Did she say yeah, it's possible I'm depressed? Or did she say I'm not depressed and you just persevered?

Cynthia 8:48
And she did say she didn't think she was depressed. But we honestly her symptoms were very depression. Yeah, like, she couldn't get out of bed. She didn't want to she had no desire to do anything. She was just exhausted all the time. And what's funny is she's an athlete. And she, at that time was competing at a very high level. And she could somehow drag herself to practice and get going. And once she got going, she'd be fine. And so now I realized what was happening is her blood sugar was dropping as she was exercising.

Scott Benner 9:26
Interesting, isn't it?

Cynthia 9:29
And then she would feel good and come home and be okay for a little while. Yeah, and then it would just this cycle would repeat itself.

Scott Benner 9:37
I just had I was struck with the thought just now that my life is odd that people say things about their health and I'm like, oh my god, isn't that interesting? Where I should you know, I don't know why my I'm not horrified by it. I'm just I think that's that's incredible like that. You could use hindsight like that and look back and from where you came and her age, right? Like, are you depressed? Well, I don't know. I am tired. More often than usual, I've heard people say it's hard to get up when you're depressed. She right she doesn't know the difference. And right. And would she even know if she? You don't? I mean, if she was depressed, would she know she was depressed? And Correct? Yes. And even, that's really fascinating. And the therapist never said, Well, you know, while we're doing this, maybe go get a CBC or something like that, just to see if she's ill.

Cynthia 10:23
You know, we actually had only gone to one therapy session, I think, at that time, and she just didn't feel like we hadn't found it. She's gone to more therapy since then, believe me, but, um, but at the time, she hadn't found a good fit. So she'd gone to somebody and it didn't really go well. So we kind of were, you know, doing other things. And

Scott Benner 10:43
yeah, well, you went to a mechanic and asked him how to bake a cake. So

Cynthia 10:47
right, right. Yeah, exactly. So and I mean, we in that time, also, we brought her to the doctor, probably three different times, they diagnosed her with sinus infection and ear infection. And we're like, none of that makes sense.

Scott Benner 11:00
I want to give you a lot of props for persevering behind the scenes, because I know what that feels like. And I'd like you to tell me a little bit about how it was for you that feeling that there was something wrong, you aren't coming up with an answer. And I'm imagining every free moment of your life you were digging everywhere you could on the internet trying to figure it out. Absolutely. Scary. Or

Cynthia 11:24
yeah, I mean, to be honest with you, I I was thinking the worst in some ways. You she was a different person from who she had been. And also had become mean her moods where she was having horrible mood swings. So you know, you think typical teenager, but she was my third teenager. It wasn't typical. It was, it was unusual.

Scott Benner 11:49
How far into those? I'm sorry, go off.

Cynthia 11:53
No, go ahead.

Scott Benner 11:54
I was gonna ask how far into those six months till you started thinking physical and not mental.

Cynthia 12:02
I mean, I think we were actually looking for physical more towards the beginning and then thinking okay, well, maybe if there's nothing physical to explain it, it is something more like a depression or something like that. And then swinging kind of just swinging back and forth, just looking anywhere we can try and figure out and in the end, I mean, when she finally was diagnosed, her blood sugar was like 400 out that that's I mean, that's extremely high but and her a one C was in the low twelves.

Scott Benner 12:32
Okay, had been going on. She wasn't

Cynthia 12:35
she wasn't it been going on a long time, but it wasn't and she was never in decay. Like our doctors told us we probably actually found it pretty early.

Scott Benner 12:46
And the running around kept you kind of in the game, so to speak.

Cynthia 12:50
I think the fact that she was so active physically was really what prolonged it.

Scott Benner 12:56
Wow. Wow, some good luck. Yeah, right. I'm just gonna go right once in a while, I guess. You guess I know. It's, it's tough. When you're looking for those silver linings and so many clouds. You find one you're like, this isn't a huge one, but I'm gonna take it as a win. Right? Well, okay, so she gets back. You know, you figure it out. Sounds like you got ahead of it a little bit. And they treat. How, like, are you in? Doesn't sound like you might have been in the hospital for a long?

Cynthia 13:25
No, we were we did do three days in the hospital. And that was a big bummer. But like I said, it was sort of a relief that we knew what was wrong. And we're thinking, Okay, we got her on insulin, everything's gonna be okay now. And let's see, they we did leave with pens. And we had her on a Dexcom. Within weeks, maybe three weeks. G six had just come out. So we were one of the first people to get ge six.

Scott Benner 13:56
Was that through? You're looking into it or through the doctors? Absolutely.

Cynthia 14:00
100% It was from us.

Scott Benner 14:04
And that seemed more important than a pump to you initially. Yes. Can you remember back to why?

Cynthia 14:14
Um, I, her insulin needs were very low at the beginning. In fact, she had she probably went through that whole summer. She was diagnosed in May. She probably went through that whole summer with just taking long acting.

Scott Benner 14:29
Okay. I see. Yeah. So there was still a honeymoon period that went for a while

Cynthia 14:33
for sure. Exactly. And again, because and that summer, she was very, very active. She was in sports camps all day. So yeah, I just think so she was really only taking a couple of units of I think she was taking love Amira at the time.

Scott Benner 14:49
But to dig into that question a little more, not knowing very much about diabetes at all. Seeing what you saw in the beginning when you realize there was a thing she could wear That would pump her insulin in and stop her from taking injections. And a thing that she could wear that would show you her blood sugar in real time. Do you remember what made you think? Let's get the CGM right now.

Cynthia 15:11
Um, I mean yeah, just that knowledge and I guess fear the fear of going low she did within you they sent her home on let's see love a mirror and homologue and of course I went back to work and then she's home like the next, like one or two days after she had come home and she ate something and she did all the math right you know, she's just 15 and a half and did her injection and ate and then tested this before she got the Dexcom and she was in the 40s She sent me a picture of this, you know of her CGM. It wasn't a CGM. What are they called? The pure meter? Yeah. And she's sitting there trying to unwrap Starburst and eat her three Starburst, which is what they had recommended to her and it was a really scary time. And so I think having that although we had ordered the Dexcom even before we left the hospital, but that she had a few scary loads in the beginning that I think she maybe didn't even need the human log yet.

Scott Benner 16:18
Yeah, I in that moment when she's unwrapping isn't it funny by the way kids at this age like she sent you a picture? Like she could have raised you my blood sugar's 40 Like no, you know, I see I hear posts with images get more

Cynthia 16:32
right? Yes, she sent me a picture of the meter Yes. Did you and I'm at work and see this pop up on my phone and have an absolute panic attack. Home his work? I was about probably 20 minutes you didn't

Scott Benner 16:47
make you feel like running out the door or what did you

Cynthia 16:50
I think by the time I saw it, she I think I saw it as well as some other texts that she was okay by then. So

Scott Benner 16:58
good, good. Good. I I've had I one time, couldn't get a hold of Arden at school. And I made it all the way through the front door of the school. Okay, and then she texted me back and she's like, I took care of it and I looked the lady in the face like through the little window you know the post 911 getting into a public schools different than right you know, so I'm looking through the little window and I'm like, Ah, nevermind and I turned around just left okay. But I had made it all the way from a shower. I was in the shower and shower dried ran out the door probably half dressed driving through town. And then arms like I'm good. Okay, and then I just took her on the left but it's yeah, I've

Cynthia 17:42
definitely done that before as well. Yeah,

Scott Benner 17:45
it's frightening sometimes. Well frightening. So you said a second ago that she's done way more therapy since then. So was it not like a brochure transition into type one diabetes?

Cynthia 18:00
Yeah, not really. She's definitely struggled and you know, knowing her I don't know if it was just 100% the diabetes but it that's definitely been a part of of her mental health struggle.

Scott Benner 18:18
Yeah. Does the struggle come? Like what what form does that come in? Is it pushing back against type one is that like, is it like, I don't want this and you can't you can't bring yourself to just kind of say alright, I have diabetes. Is it that she feels different? You know what? What the underpin? I think

Cynthia 18:37
it's all of that that you just said yeah, she doesn't want to feel different. She I mean yeah, she you know she wears her diabetes tech showing and all her friends she doesn't hide it. But she doesn't want to take care of it. And then yeah, just this feeling of wanting to be free and grow up and I think she feels a definite well I know she feels very smothered by me trying to take care of it

Scott Benner 19:07
doesn't want to take care of it and does anyway or doesn't and it's a problem. Je voc hypo pen has no visible needle, and it's the first premixed auto injector of glucagon for very low blood sugar in adults and kids with diabetes ages two and above. Not only is G voc hypo pen simple to administer, but it's simple to learn more about. All you have to do is go to G voc glucagon.com Ford slash juicebox. G voc shouldn't be used in patients with insulinoma or pheochromocytoma. Visit G voc glucagon.com/risk.

Now it's time to talk about the Dexcom G six continuous glucose monitor. If you told me I could only tell you one thing about it, I guess I would say that the Dexcom tells you the speed and direction of your blood sugar. That if I can only tell you one thing about it, that's what I would tell you. I would think that would be enough for you to be interested in more that it also tells you what your blood sugar is. No, that seems like a bonus to me. But direction speed. Yeah, that's the big deal right there. For instance, my daughter's blood sugar's 104. Right now, we are about two hours past a meal at a bar, like a restaurant bar. You know, you're like, Oh, this guy's taking this underage daughter robot. I'm not it's not a bar. It's a restaurant that has a you know what I mean? She got bar food. She had nachos with like cheese steak piled on top of it and french fries. And Arden's blood sugar is 104. At the moment, it is also trending down. I can see that on my cell phone. She's not even with me right now. So I look at the graph over the last couple of hours. And I see where we came in, where we Pre-Bolus for Ardens meal. I can see later where the Bolus got a little overwhelmed, we had it up a little bit. That information from the Dexcom allowed me to comfortably make a new Bolus, which stopped a spike. And now she's leveled off and coming back down gently. I honestly don't know how I could have done that. Without the Dexcom GS six, I think you should check it out@dexcom.com forward slash juicebox. You can find out more or get started today. But I'm just going to tell you, if you have type one. Now forget type one, if you're using insulin, you should have a Dexcom Dexcom share and follow are available for iPhone and Android. And you can have up to 10 followers. That could be your mother, your brother, your sister, your school nurse your parents, a lot of different people could be in your corner if you want them to. And if you don't want that, you don't have to do that. Dexcom is nothing if it is not flexible. Okay, there's links in the show notes, links at Juicebox Podcast comm I want to get back to Cynthia

Cynthia 22:27
doesn't want to take care of and kind of does anyway, which may just be because she so doesn't want to deal with me. It's easier to just take care of it. And then have your mom nagging you constantly to take care of

Scott Benner 22:44
Cynthia going with the old battleaxe version of

Cynthia 22:49
right. I mean, we've tried it all. I've tried the bribery I've tried. You know, I'll pay you to do the whatever

Scott Benner 22:58
disguise about her health like understanding what comes if you don't manage?

Cynthia 23:03
Right, I mean, she's been told that I think you can't really tell them that too many times, because then it just kind of becomes

Scott Benner 23:11
self fulfilling.

Cynthia 23:12
Yeah. So I mean, I will say so I think the the original reason I had emailed you just saying that I thought this was sort of an interesting topic is. So at the doctor, she is always applauded and looked up to as this amazing type one. I think she's a patient that comes in and they're happy to see her and they they applaud her a one sees and they tell her she's doing amazing. And that's just been kind of my biggest frustration is because I'm sure she is doing better than a lot of their patients. But how but it's frustrating to me that there's so many little tiny things she could be doing better. And, you know, when they're 16. And they say, Well, the doctor says I'm doing great mom, they don't want to listen to me. I gotcha. All right. That's how you could do better.

Scott Benner 24:13
Let's find out if you're crazy. Or if she's young, this will be fun. I mean, crazy, in the most lovely sense of the word. So you know, of course, of course. So tell me hurry one see just so we have context.

Cynthia 24:31
So it was in the twelves when she was diagnosed and then it went to nine, you know, like a month later, but ever since then it has always been in the sevens.

Scott Benner 24:39
Okay. All right. So is this a scenario where you're seeing other people doing numbers lower than that? And you think we can get to this, but she won't listen?

Cynthia 24:55
Yes. Ah, she's just so close.

Unknown Speaker 25:00
What What holds your backing? Um,

Cynthia 25:04
well, it's mostly just so she does a roller coaster, major, major roller coaster. She has very high highs and then she

Scott Benner 25:12
has low lows. She's not Pre-Bolus singer meals,

Cynthia 25:15
she does not prefer refuses to Pre-Bolus. So that was one thing that I had a very hard conversation in the endos office one time because I thought, Okay, I'm gonna all bring it up. And then of course, the endo will back me up on it. No, not all of it. Then she didn't. And I so I said, because I think her agency had gone up just a couple ticks, I think it had gone up to like 7.9, almost to eight. And so I had suggested, and I usually let the appointment be driven by my daughter and the Endo. And I just sort of been there because that's how it needs to be. I mean, she was older when she was diagnosed, she really has to take control of this herself, but and so I had just said, what if she takes her insulin earlier? Would that be helpful, so she doesn't go so high? And the endo very quickly said, Oh, I'm happy as long as she just takes it before the first bite of food goes in her mouth.

Scott Benner 26:14
And did you say you mother?

Cynthia 26:19
There's your first belief of the day?

Scott Benner 26:21
Yeah, this to you like you son of a bitch. Just shut up.

Cynthia 26:26
I wanted to so I very quickly said and what if the thing she's eating is a doughnut or a fast acting carb. And she said as long as she takes it before her first bite. So that was really frustrating. Because, you know, I had been trying to get across the concept of Pre-Bolus sing to her. And then the doctor just sort of almost made me look like the idiot.

Scott Benner 26:57
Doctor. younger or older than 40.

Cynthia 27:02
Younger. Really one of the reasons we chose her. Yeah.

Scott Benner 27:06
Does the doctor have type one? I'm gonna go right. I see. Did you meet resistance in the car afterwards? Or your daughter was like, Haha, I told you Did you get any that?

Cynthia 27:22
Maybe not right away there? Yes. Definitely a few times since the she always says the doctor says that I don't have to take insulin until I eat. And then I often have to say yes, but she should be you should take it when you eat and not an hour after you eat when you're high.

Scott Benner 27:40
So I have to tell you, let me just I'm not speaking to your doctor directly. But let's just anyone that's listening. If you are doing this shame on you. Seriously, like really like to tell a 16 year old kid that her eight a one see that, you know, is is almost eight coming from seven and you're doing great. I mean, doing great. What does that mean? Like those kids have no context for that. You've just given her a pass for everything. Everything you just you've told her Gee, it's your point earlier, everything's fine. Don't worry about anything. You can ignore your mom, you can ignore everything you're doing great. Right? That's, it's dangerous. And it's, uh, it's malpractice, in my opinion, and you should be ashamed. And if you don't understand how insulin works, maybe find out or get a different job. You know, right. Don't Don't tell a kid that they can. They can eat a doughnut as their bolusing. And everything's gonna be great. You're gonna be fine. Yeah, you can tell them they can eat a doughnut while they're Bolus thing and their budget is just gonna get incredibly high, and then likely crashed down low later. But and you know, it's not going to kill you today. That'd be that'd be honest. Right, but not great. That's a I'm sorry. So how do you? Well, I'm about to ask you a question. I guess you don't have an answer to both. Do you have a plan for getting through this? Getting through to her, I guess.

Cynthia 29:06
Yeah. I mean, I guess we just keep trying. And we do just the last week she did put a pump on. So she's had the Omni pod and she's just collected dust for a long time, but she did decide to give it a try. And it seems like that's going a little bit better.

Scott Benner 29:28
Huh? Alright, so walk us through it. How did you approach her about it? What happened next, etc.

Cynthia 29:35
Um, she just had had a series of really low lows and because she would go high and then overcorrect to do her range Bolus. And then go way way low and so she had finally agreed that maybe that would be a better way to try and avoid all these lows. So um, It's been a little bit better, I still don't know that she's Pre-Bolus thing, but for whatever reason her body does react faster to insulin coming from the pump than it does when she was MDI, okay.

Scott Benner 30:12
That's good, but not good enough, right, like in your mind, right. Yeah. Right. And you know what the the shame of it is, is that in her mind at some point in the future, she'll agree with you. But how long will it take her to get to that point?

Cynthia 30:26
That's what I worry about? Because I agree. I do think that she will. I think she will get there. But I do worry about how many years it's going to take her to get there. And then I worry about our relationship.

Scott Benner 30:39
Yeah. Well say more about that. What are your concerns?

Cynthia 30:45
Well, just that. I mean, we get along great. So our main, our main issues that we ever have, are always over diabetes. And so you know, that she thinks I'm trying to control her. And you know, I mean, it's just difficult. And then when she me, she's been MDI all these years. And so for many, many years, the first or not many, many, the first two years, probably about till she turned 18. We just every night 10pm, we wouldn't give her her long acting. And then when she turned 18, she's like, I'm gonna do this myself. And we're like, Okay, that's great. You know, she needs to do it at some point. But then turns out as many nights that she was doing it, she also wasn't doing it. So she just would forget are.

Scott Benner 31:38
Cynthia, are you saying that 18 year olds aren't incredibly responsible? I am definitely saying that. Yeah, I didn't know you were gonna come out with such a strong stance today. That's amazing. I know, a lot of you believe it's gonna cause an uproar. Yeah. Well, I like the idea of, I'm going to take care of it. But if I had to watch from a from a from a third party perspective, what I would think was, she used her birthday. As an adult, I made air quotes to tell you to you have to leave her alone now.

Cynthia 32:10
Right. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's exactly what she was trying to do. But my thing is, is, this is not some this is a non negotiable to me is, you know, this is not something that I'm going to give you space on. Is your health

Scott Benner 32:24
Do you struggle with thinking that if you push too hard, she'll just move out?

Cynthia 32:32
At this point, because she really doesn't have the means to move out. So

Scott Benner 32:38
don't let her meet like somebody that has an apartment, right?

Cynthia 32:41
Yeah. Right. No, I guess I do. Yeah, that is a little bit of a concern. Yeah.

Scott Benner 32:47
I had one of those thoughts with my son once like he, he he did something and I needed to do something back and I thought, how far can I push this before? He might just go, you know, well, Forget it then. And that was crazy. Because I thought, Well, I do have to still pay for college. There's no way he's gonna want to do that. So I have a little more time. I don't know if that sounds sinister to people who don't have children. But you know, there's a, that's a real thing that happened to you. I turned 18 Almond adult, which is such an arbitrary bowl thing. It's not real. It's like, it's like you turned 21. And now suddenly, you can you can binge drink, and it'll be okay. Like, but you know what I mean? So, things like that don't happen overnight. I just I feel for you. And I wonder away from diabetes. Do you have any issues like this with with communication or power cycles?

Cynthia 33:41
Um, I don't think anything more than a typical. Yeah. You know, typical teenage power kid turning 18 Of course, you know, they always think that they then should be allowed to do everything and anything but, um, but yeah, definitely, our main struggles are surrounding diabetes, which is very frustrating. Because to me, you know, this is just, again, it's a non negotiable, it's you, you have to take care of your health. Like, I will do everything that I can to make sure that you don't have any long term problems, because I didn't, because I just let you not take your insulin at night.

Scott Benner 34:25
Yeah, no, I appreciate that. I agree with you. I wonder too. Have you gone to wherever and said, Look, I don't push you around on anything else, like you don't see me trying to exert like this is important in a way that maybe you can't appreciate at the moment. And you know, just look on other things. You have freedom here and here and here. I don't like you know, we're not telling you what to do all over your life. If if this feels like that to you. Instead of thinking I'm trying to be in charge of it. Why don't you like help look at you know, can you look at it from my perspective. Did you know but I don't know how well those conversations go. You know, I've, I've lately been talking a lot to Erica and you guys here on the podcast. By the time this comes out, you'll have heard like, another therapist who has type one who I've been talking about more of this kind of emotional stuff with. And it's all amazing when you hear it, like the ideas and the concepts of communication and everything, but I don't know how well it ever really works in practice, like in real life, you don't even mean like it right. Sounds good on don't don't implementing

Cynthia 35:35
Yeah, implementing those things. And you know, she has gone to some therapies and I given some tools and different things and implementing them or is way harder than it seems like it would be reading about them listening to them. It all just sounds so great. Like, that'll work so fabulous.

Scott Benner 35:55
Don't it seems like as being a decent person is not the most human trait. Decent the right word, but like communicating with people? Well, it's obvious, right? Like, I think it's obvious to most people, and then doing it in the moment is, it's not the same thing. There's something else at play that keeps you from saying things the way you even mean them sometimes or

Cynthia 36:19
right. And I feel like with this, there's so much emotion involved as well.

Scott Benner 36:25
Right? Right. And, and everything. I was saying this to my daughter's friends come over, and they get the weirdest conversations in my kitchen. But we were talking about like, all the big, you know, people in their 1617, they talk about the big ideas in the world as if they've just, you know, they're the first people, it's noticed them. And it's a fun time to talk to people. And they were talking about race and politics and these big ideas. And I stopped them and I said, Listen, everything's about power. Everything is about power. Somebody either is in power and trying to hold on to it. Or someone is out of power, and wants to be in power. And that is true in personal relationships as well. Like somebody is empowered in a relationship and everything is a power struggle. So and for children. It's, it's I mean, it's it's normal and obvious, right? Like, you try to assert yourself a little bit. You're trying to break away from your parents, you start seeing, I don't know about you, Cynthia, but I'm slowing down a step. You know, my kids say it, they're like, oh, this old man. Yeah, he's on his way out, like I got better ideas. And, you know, they start thinking, Well, let me get my ideas into the game a little bit. But he's holding the purse strings or you know, whatever else it ends up being. So you try to give them a ton of freedom. And in a normal growth situation, and people can raise their kids any way they want. But I'm a fan, like, let them exert themselves, let them try to insert their ideas. Sometimes it's really painful. As a parent, like, oh, gosh, like that might be right. You don't I mean, like, wow, he might be smarter than me on this one. And to let that go is, is hard sometimes. But then this happens. And it's health. And that you don't have you don't feel like you have the time to let them learn how to be a human being and what's it really going to take? Let's be honest. 26 Is that about when you start to pull it together? You think your mid 20s?

Cynthia 38:22
Wavy? Yeah, my oldest is around that. Yeah. And she's well, she's a different whole different breed. She's very responsible, but we often joke even with her that it should have been her that got diabetes.

Scott Benner 38:35
She enjoys that job very much. Yeah.

Cynthia 38:38
It's funny because she actually she sees it she she just you know, every personality is different. But she's a very science minded, very analytical, I think, you know, somebody would tell her, this is what you do, and she would do it. And and I think she would also be very she's very goal oriented. I think she'd be very driven to like, get that a one C down. Like that would be

Scott Benner 39:00
it would be interesting to her. Do you find that? Do you listen to the show? I'm sorry?

Cynthia 39:05
I do. Yes. And I found it very early, like before we left the hospital,

Scott Benner 39:09
okay. I only asked because you talk to adults, and they fall into those camps. Like some of them are just like what I've diabetes, watch me knock this down. Like I knock everything else down. Like are there right it'll type A about things, which doesn't always lend to great outcomes because sometimes you can't. He can't really absorb the art part of diabetes then when you're trying to write strictly Yes. But so your youngest who has type one? What's her makeup? Is she kind of free spirited or is she Yes, She's

Cynthia 39:44
witty. She's definitely my free spirit. Yes. And yeah, she doesn't want to she wants to be a little be different.

Scott Benner 39:53
Yeah, I don't know how you explain to a person that when they're at that age, and they have that desire that you can't be different if you're not here or healthy. Right, you know, right. And it's so it's such an easy I don't mean easy, but it's so available. Like the health with type one. You know what I mean? Like for, for most people, and I think Pre-Bolus Singh puts her in the low sixes.

Cynthia 40:20
I 100% agree. And I think that's my biggest frustration and she gets so you know, I always okay, dinner's gonna be ready in 20 minutes. It's probably about 50 carbs. You know, I always provide that information. But then from there, I mean, I really, I can't do much else. Yeah, it feels it feels a little helpless. You can't

Scott Benner 40:43
do much else because what would happen if you want what kind of pump the show?

Cynthia 40:49
She's on the Omni pod. And she's literally only been on it for like four days. Oh, she was MTI until I think. I think she's even just on her very second. Oh, so yeah, four days.

Scott Benner 41:00
Oh, so you couldn't walk up to her? And just like a sticker with a needle. Alright, that makes sense. But I mean, what would stop you from walking out into the living room next time and going 50 carbs and pushing the buttons while you're saying it and go boom, and then put it down next to her and then watch her have a better outcome with her meal?

Cynthia 41:17
Yeah, that would that would turn into a big power struggle. Like you're very upset with me that she would say this is my body. This is my health. This is you know, this is a me problem. Not a weed problem. That's one of her favorite lines.

Scott Benner 41:32
Oh, did she hear that somewhere?

Cynthia 41:35
Probably at therapy.

Scott Benner 41:38
Tell her that. Shut the hell up problem.

Cynthia 41:40
And, like I paid for that therapy. Love sleeping

Scott Benner 41:43
under a blanket. I don't think about it often. But you know, a comforter cost $100 I just wanted to bring that up. Let me explain to you how I made that. $100. Right. Yeah, it's it's a me problem. Oh, you just need your up.

Cynthia 41:59
Yeah. So it would it would turn into a power struggle, and it would just it would just be a fight. Have you? So

Scott Benner 42:07
can I ask are the other two? boys or girls?

Cynthia 42:13
Girl boy girl,

Scott Benner 42:14
and you're more west coast. Is that right?

Cynthia 42:17
Yes, we're Arizona. Okay.

Scott Benner 42:19
So you don't have to do you not have it in you to go? Shut the hell up?

Cynthia 42:26
Um, no, I've done that plenty of times.

Scott Benner 42:29
Right. And not and it doesn't get does it escalate like this? They're yelling after that. Does it turn

Cynthia 42:36
yelling and yelling?

Scott Benner 42:40
Oh, yeah. Everyone listening is like, oh, yeah, there's been yo, right. Right. But you know, it doesn't go like UFC. Like you guys don't start like round picking each other. Right? So it just it stays. Yeah.

Cynthia 42:53
It might just turn into her, you know, then just not coming to dinner and just Yeah.

Scott Benner 43:00
Oh, it turns into like a Oh, I was gonna say pouting. That's wrong. Well,

Cynthia 43:05
yeah. I don't know if pouting is right. But I mean, there have been times where yes, we have successfully seen the magic of a Pre-Bolus. And I don't I don't know why she doesn't.

Scott Benner 43:19
What's the bounce like in her blood sugar. Just keep doing it. Because variability what the variability is super important. Obviously, you don't have it, right. Like the standard deviation and stuff like that. You're bouncing up. She's bouncing up and down. Is it possible? She feels like is there possible some of this emotion stuff is coming from blood sugar fluctuation?

Cynthia 43:37
I probably yes. So like her her three days. So since she's been wearing the, the pump standard deviation is 49. So I mean, that's not great, right? But, um, but if I go more out to 60 days, we're looking at 70.

Scott Benner 43:55
Oh, no, no, we don't want that. Right. Baba Baba. Overnight. Oh, do you even get to inspect your blood sugar and make suggestions?

Cynthia 44:06
Yes. So we do she does let us follow her on Dexcom. She does let us manage her overnight. Okay, so

Scott Benner 44:17
let me stop you for a second. Does she allow you? Does she allow you to stay up overnight and not sleep while she's sleeping? Oh my god, it's really.

Cynthia 44:27
So yeah,

Scott Benner 44:28
I guess that's a you problem.

Cynthia 44:30
Right? That's an easy problem. She would tell me I don't have to. And I really and she in fact, if I ever were to say, you know, I lost a lot of sleep last night trying to manage your blood sugar. She would say you don't have to. I'm fine. Just leave it alone.

Scott Benner 44:45
She doesn't understand that all.

Cynthia 44:47
She just doesn't get it. And I you know, I have to remember that her brain is not fully formed.

Unknown Speaker 44:54
Right. So but yeah,

Cynthia 44:56
I think I think that's how her her agency has stayed in the center. Because I manage her overnight.

Scott Benner 45:02
Oh, oh, I bet you're right. Because I think that's the first place to steal a one C is over, right? Yeah, absolutely. Well, so where does she sits? Does she sits stable overnight? Or storage? Does that lack of Pre-Bolus and get a meal time? Just make that a mess into the 2am? Hour?

Cynthia 45:19
Well, boy, these last four days with that Omnipod she's been awfully stable overnight. Good, good, good. So that has helped for sure. But, um, I would say normally, and when she was MDI, I would have to do a correction in the night to keep to give like, we couldn't seem to ever find that magic number with the long acting insulin to keep her stable. So I'm not sure what, I don't know if it's just the formulation of the insulin, but it seems like we could never get it high enough to keep her level.

Scott Benner 45:55
I see. Are you going to work on? Like, where? Where has she been stable these last few nights that like, get a number?

Cynthia 46:02
Well, right now she's 73. Look at you. But most of the night she was and she's about to get up which is probably good. I mean, she's 73. But she's very steady right now. But she spent most of the night in the 90s.

Scott Benner 46:16
Nice. I like that. Now she'll get up and and what about her eating? Is she like, what kind of foods that she gravitate towards?

Cynthia 46:26
Carbs? Yeah. Yeah, she's definitely a typical teenager. And you know, he eats a lot of fast food and you know, likes those sugary coffee drinks that just kill me. I don't like those at all. I don't like she can drink them. Yeah,

Scott Benner 46:45
I've never drank them, but I don't like the way they smell. Oh, I don't I've never had coffee in my life ever wants. Okay, so

Cynthia 46:54
I love the smell of coffee. But I'm not a coffee drinker either. But then

Scott Benner 46:57
you start sweetening it up and putting like syrup in it and stuff. And I'm like,

Cynthia 47:01
great. She's basically drinking a milkshake when she goes to get these drinks. And I'm like, it just kills me again that she won't Pre-Bolus for them. She does Bolus for them. I mean, she does cover for them. But

Scott Benner 47:12
so these drinks are paid for by you

Cynthia 47:15
know, I would never pay for something like get a job. She does have she does a lot of kind of side jobs. And she didn't she worked at Target for a while. Yeah, she said some jobs.

Scott Benner 47:28
Yeah, it's tougher when they

Cynthia 47:30
have Yeah, cuz I would never pay for that. I won't buy things like that for the house. Right? I mean, we don't, I don't necessarily. I'm not against carbs. But I won't have those types of things that are going to spike her blood sugar excessively in the house, because if she would deal with them, I would be happy to buy her cereal. If she was gonna cover for it correctly.

Scott Benner 47:56
Cynthia, not a very common sense person. But am I missing something? Or is this just really like, she is her age? You think?

Cynthia 48:05
I really believe it is her age? And? Um, yeah, I mean, you talk to a lot of people that will say in my teenage years, I was so horribly managed, right. And I just think I'm going through it. And maybe it was when she was diagnosed, because they did. And we encouraged it for her to really just right away, take it and it be hers. And

Scott Benner 48:33
it's hard, though. I mean, it is hard, because there's the other side of it right is if you encourage her to take care of it. And she takes care of it. And then she goes to the end, and then it goes, Oh, my God, you're doing great. Then she thinks I took care of it.

Cynthia 48:46
And if that is that is my major frustration, right?

Scott Benner 48:50
Because had you stepped in first, you could have set a baseline for expectation. That's right. That's where the doctor would have said, Oh, my God, you're doing great. And then that would have been isn't that crazy? And then that would have been held as the expectation.

Cynthia 49:03
I think that's exactly where we went wrong. And now there's no going back from that until I think and again. I do think she's going to eventually get it. Um, she's a really smart girl. But I just think again, she's like, Mom, the doctor says I'm doing great.

Scott Benner 49:21
Yeah, the doctors the rate limiting factor here. I don't like her. That's right.

Cynthia 49:25
I don't either. And luckily, she is a pediatric Endo. And so we will be she will have to find somebody new soon. So I'm hoping that we can find somebody that will say, I mean, I will say at this last appointment, and the doctor did say, now that you're a team, you really need to have a lower a one C which just blew me away. Why does it matter if you're 18 or not? A one C can be higher? Yeah.

Scott Benner 49:56
Yeah, yo, do you didn't know Cynthia that when you're younger? The Laws of Physics and other things don't even apply to you. You're just fine. I used to, I would go in with Arden. And I'd be like, Listen, this isn't right. You know, her blood sugars are all over the place. And they go, Oh, it doesn't matter now. It's like, what now? Like, doesn't that doesn't seem like it makes any sense. And then damages damage, right? They would say that, Oh, she's so young, it won't matter. It feels opposite of what you're saying is true. And so I just ignored them and went on to do other, you know, try other things. Obviously, that led us all here. But it is fascinating that they're like, Oh, they're young. Like, what does that mean? Does that mean they're I make make sense of that for me? Like, what is that? You know, and there's no context, no one knows what they're talking about. I mean, honestly, if there'd be no podcast if people knew what they were talking about. Because you go to the doctor, and the doctor would say sensible things that made sense to you. That worked out and were real. And then things would happen after that you'd have success and yay. But that's just not how it works. And your daughter gets sucked into it. And believes it. I would love to talk, right? I would love to talk to a kid who thinks there's no way anyone's ever going to come on like that. Right? But like, how great would it be for me to sit with your daughter and be like, That's bullshit. Like what's true? Like you are less congested? Yeah, you're listening to a moron that just has more college education than you do? Think that's right. Is it? Right, who would say that?

Cynthia 51:32
I mean, I will say I do think because I know the, once you're in the type one world, you find no, all these people, other people that are in it. And I'm guessing the majority of her patients are not as well controlled as my daughter, which just blows me away.

Scott Benner 51:51
Oh, that's great. That's wonderful. So your daughter's bank robber so we can we can let her petty larceny go? Yeah,

Cynthia 51:58
exactly. Right. I think that that is what they see, though. Because she comes in to see my daughter. And it's like, they're all happy, like, Oh, it's a relief. I don't have a kid in here who's got a 12 a one C

Scott Benner 52:12
know, what they have in there as a kid whose mom is up all night, trying to steal a onesie overnight. So that'll be great. You'll be dead soon. And you know, your lack of sleep, right? It won't even be like a medical problem. You'll fall over and kill yourself from being tired. And and then your daughters they want to go to 11. Right? And then what's she gonna say then to her?

Cynthia 52:37
Yeah. So she actually hasn't even had her a one C checked since COVID. So since last May hasn't been checked and kills me. But I mean, at least we have the Dexcom numbers, so we have a good idea what it is. I think she's gonna have it taken this next time.

Scott Benner 52:55
Cynthia made me upset first thing back from my vacation. A bit with this conversation. I know this happens. And I know that I shouldn't rant about it too much. But I'll tell you, there's a doctor coming on pretty soon an endo. And it'll happen way before in the timeline before your episode goes up. But, you know, one of the things she said in her note to me was I started listening to podcasts, I love the things you were saying about diabetes made me feel more. Like I wanted to try harder, I think is how she put it. And except she called what I was saying doctor bashing. So I would say this, if you're a doctor and you feel like you're being bashed right now, you're just not doing a very good job. That's not my fault. You know? Like, I'm think of me as a sports commentator in this moment. And you're a wide receiver and people keep hitting you in the hands with the ball and you don't catch it. I'm not bashing you. You're not catching the ball. That's, that's there's something different there. Like holding somebody to account is not the same as as bashing someone. Right? You know? And, and this is just you can see the the lineage of how your daughter got put in this mindset.

Cynthia 54:09
Yeah, yeah. And I mean, that's just my biggest frustration is I feel like yes, she's told they're the person who's supposed to be the expert that she's doing a fabulous job and they wish all her patients were as good as her and I just, there's nothing I can do at that point. You know what I look for a new doctor which I would be um, except now it's kind of out of my hands.

Scott Benner 54:34
You should have looked at the doctor and said that's actually a you problem. Don't don't use don't use my daughter's health and welfare to make you feel better about what's happening here. And and don't Don't be lazy by the way. I'll give you this. Most people probably aren't going to listen to good to good advice or common sense or anything like that. I'm I'm aware of that. If, if, okay, so we'll let that be. But that doesn't excuse you, as the doctor from saying it. Like, it's still your job to say it, you might expect that they're not going to listen, and maybe they won't. But that's not an excuse for you not to tell them you have that is free. It's not a waste of time. That's your job. And you don't you don't get to make yourself feel better by telling Cynthia's daughter that her seven a one C is great, because it's good. And it's okay. And it's not terrible, but it's not great. What my daughter's a one sees ninth grade. And it's in the mid fives. It's really, really, really good. But it's not great. There's plenty of people walking around who don't eat carbs, there's a one C is 4.8. Very one C is great. You don't mean like in I just mean? Like, you have to you have to look at the scale. I mean, where am I?

Cynthia 55:57
I feel like I wish they would also look at the variability. I don't feel I feel like all the doctor would look at would be the a one see, but didn't look at the reports that they have access to. I have shared all that information on that they should they should see these three, four hundreds that she's sitting out for hours and hours and then comes crashing down to these scary lows.

Scott Benner 56:22
This doctors just looking at the A one say,

Cynthia 56:25
I think just the a one thing again, I

Scott Benner 56:27
say malpractice. That's right, you know, how can you ducky. So it's confirmation bias. The doctors just saying, look, if I stare at this number, I'm doing a good job for this kid. You know? Yeah, yeah, it's terrible. Well, do you have a time machine?

Cynthia 56:48
I'd like one, because if you had

Scott Benner 56:49
one, I can fix this whole thing for you. But right. Do you remember the day you met your husband? Because we're gonna need that date while we fix all this? Right? No, I listen, I feel for you. It is. It's stressful. And it makes you feel like you're failing. I would imagine it makes you feel like you're failing on a couple of levels, which is terrible for you. Because you have it sounds like all good intentions. And, and you're going about it the right way you are being respectful of her and how she feels. And I mean, that is definitely part of it. And you can't ignore like, I want to be clear, like we've joked around a little bit in this hour, like you can't ignore how your daughter feels you'll push her away. You're right. So you have to navigate this whole thing. without it taking so long that your daughter ends up on the podcast when I'm 60. And she's 27 going, I really wish I would have listened to my mom. And now I get these you know, you know, this happens to me and the doctor says maybe I'm gonna have to get that like you don't mean like, because that does. But people come on here and tell that story. I ignored my parents when I was 16. And now I'm 30 and I'm getting injections in my eyes to try to slow down retinopathy. People have come on here and talked about that.

Cynthia 58:06
So that are not that old. And I and I do think though even though her a one C is okay, she does have these high highs. Yeah, the last and are doing damage.

Scott Benner 58:20
Right. So how do you get through to her on that? Right? I don't know. I really don't know. You were that's why hold on here just for this. I mean, did you try bribing her with a big enough idea? Did you go I've tried.

Cynthia 58:36
I've tried so many different bribes. She doesn't seem bribable anymore. We seem like we've lost that ability.

Scott Benner 58:44
Yeah, I would imagine because the bribing feels like a loss of power to.

Cynthia 58:48
I think that's exactly you think you just nailed it. You're giving? Yes, she's just as like, I'm gonna do what I want to do at this point. And then having a job now, you know, they're harder to bribe when they have their own money. She

Scott Benner 59:06
feels autonomous. It's good. By the way, these are all good things.

Cynthia 59:09
Right. They're all great things if you took away the diabetes, and that's the probably the biggest frustration to is, you know, I feel like our relationship would be way better. Her health would be better her mental health would be better you know, it's so it is it's it's a big thing for a teenager to take on.

Scott Benner 59:28
And you've said that to her like in that way. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Like everything gets better if you just slightly in a slightly different timing fashion use your insulin.

Cynthia 59:39
Right? Yeah. And she knows I mean, you know, you catch her sometimes and you know, her blood sugar stable and you can have a more calm conversation that she like she seems to get it which I think is when she did decide, agree to wear a pump to try that for a while. You think, Okay, this is gonna go better? And it may be well for a day or two, and then she just doesn't want to. It's just because it is so day in day out. I mean, not not only day an hour, every hour, you're having to do something.

Scott Benner 1:00:16
Yeah, I am. I have to say I have a ton of compassion for her to it. It has to be so incredibly difficult to write to be

Cynthia 1:00:26
I do as well. Yeah. I mean, if I could take it just like any other parents, you know, if we could have it instead of our children, we would

Scott Benner 1:00:35
wonder if you could do something where you did it like every other day, like one day it was her and then the next day it was you. And like, if you could ease into it, so maybe

Cynthia 1:00:47
I again, I mean, she kind of lets us do the overnight, although I feel like that might be kind of going soon, too, because you know, she doesn't want us in her room at night. And she's an adult now. And now she's graduated from high school and

Scott Benner 1:01:04
well, so I was gonna say there every other night.

Cynthia 1:01:08
I'm hoping that finding a new endo will make a difference. And I'm really going to do a lot of research and trying to find somebody that I think will set a little bit higher bar.

Scott Benner 1:01:19
Do you think if she was here right now, and you weren't here, and I just said to her? Hey, be honest, like, you know, you should be doing that. Right? She just say, oh, yeah, I know. Yep. Yeah. Do you think she's screwing with you a little bit?

Cynthia 1:01:34
Maybe like a little bit of just showing that. She doesn't have to do what I say.

Scott Benner 1:01:40
Right that this is her side of the power struggle? Yeah, right. Yeah, there's probably here's how all assert and try to get the upper hand. I know people don't think of it that way. And you probably aren't consciously thinking of it that way. Or maybe even somebody Yeah,

Cynthia 1:01:54
and I don't think she would be consciously doing it either. Goes vindictive person. She's very kind and you know, person, but

Scott Benner 1:02:03
I want to say I don't mean power struggling like in like a nasty way. It's just a very human thing to want to be a

Cynthia 1:02:09
troll. Right? They just want to grow up. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:02:13
No, even the littlest things like, Have you ever restack dishes in the dishwasher on somebody?

Cynthia 1:02:19
No, but my husband does it to me all the time. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:02:22
Because in his mind, you're terrible at it. But do your dishes? Do your dishes come out clean? They cannot just find Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. Right there. That's literally what I'm talking about, is that just everyone thinks that their thing should be in charge that their thoughts and their ideas? That's what should be happening? Because that's what I think is right? And I'm it's just it's all it's got to be like animal instinct, the inside of you. Right? Like, just it works. Like it keeps us all alive. You know, trusting yourself. Because think I say this sometimes. But like, think of the alternative. Think of every idea your husband had he doubted? You wouldn't want that guy to be your husband. But you also don't want it to be so strong that he's like, look what you put the dinner plates again? Oh, my goodness, what a moron. Let me move. You know what I mean? Like, obviously, this is the way it has to go. Like, that's the wrong side too. But it drifts into people's lives like that. So is, is the answer here for you. If you love something, set it free. But the problem is, I think the rest of that saying is if it doesn't come back, you have to hunt it down and kill it. So you know, like, I mean, is more freedom, what she needs? And how long would it take if that happened for it to work into good health?

Cynthia 1:03:44
Right? Like, I mean, how bad do I let it get?

Scott Benner 1:03:48
Well, maybe you call her bluff? Or maybe you know what you are right? I can't believe it. But you don't say it with the sarcasm in my voice. But like, you are right, you're an adult. And this is all yours. So, you know, I'm, I'm gonna let you take care of it. I trust you. I wonder how quickly she'd be like, Whoa, where are you going? Wait, because maybe that's your power move, then. Maybe that's your power move. To get your power back. Maybe you have to give it to her. I know for sure that that is the plot of a lot of science fiction movies. Okay. So maybe that'll work in real life. You give her the weapon. It's hers. And then

Cynthia 1:04:32
how do I let her float it to 50 then all night long. I don't know where I go do something about it.

Scott Benner 1:04:38
Did you see the Facebook post in the private group where there was a kid that wasn't managing themselves well, and they'd got like super high. And some of the adults this is where I love the group because the group is pretty mixed between adults with type one and parents of type one. It's a great atmosphere. If you can be open minded because you will get different perspectives. And a couple of longtime type ones came in and said, Oh, you know, you know, let it happen, let her throw up. And then you know, parents like you can't tell them to let her kid going to decay. And they thought it was lovely. And and it wasn't fighting. It was like it was a good spirited conversation. And while I don't think not, not, I don't think I did not read any intention from the adults, like, Oh, let your kids go into decay as a punishment system so they can see what it's like. But what they said was, from their perspective, some kids don't listen, trust me, maybe they were one of them. And the only thing that brought them around was seeing the end of the tail that your wag your finger about, you know, like, you understand this is bad for your health. But you never let them get to that part because obvious reasons. And so they don't really believe it happened. So there were a couple of adults who were like, look, blood sugar will get I started throwing up, you know, and you know, of course, you're going to go into decay really quickly. It's super scary, and very, very, you know, bad and not medically nude. No one's telling anybody to do that. But it was from a theoretical point of view that they were having the conversation. And I'm not saying let your daughter like spiral into decay. Certainly, because there are other problems that come with higher blood sugars, like she might become more resistant and less easy to deal with than she already is. If sugars go up and up and up. But I'm wondering if she isn't still young enough that we're faced with the real possibility of managing this 24/7 on her own if she wouldn't say, Well, I don't really want that, because she lets you have the evening, right? Like, blah, blah, blah, why don't you tell her look, I'm happy to do overnight. But I want to Pre-Bolus the meals for a month, just so we can see how it goes. Like maybe you could actually get her variability down, and maybe she'll be more clear minded.

Cynthia 1:06:54
Yeah, I feel like she would be.

Scott Benner 1:06:57
So I mean, do you think you could get her to just a month like a trial? No. Really? What if she didn't know?

Cynthia 1:07:06
I mean, we've tried that. You know, we we I've tried just to get her to do one meal. And every now and then she will or sometimes she'll just do it and then Dinner takes longer than she thought it was going to

Scott Benner 1:07:18
Alright, how much or is her older sister?

Cynthia 1:07:21
I'm nine years.

Scott Benner 1:07:24
Do you think she could help her?

Cynthia 1:07:27
Maybe? Yeah, I mean, her siblings have been super supportive

Scott Benner 1:07:31
or get supportive. Do you think you can get to the older sister? And tell her look, this is what's going on? I need you to backchannel this. Maybe that's how wars are won. Seriously? Oh, yeah. They're number one the way you are. So I mean, maybe if she'd listened to her more. And it's got to come from a very like, Hey, how you doing? How's everything? How's the diabetes going? Like, he can't be like mom said that your schmuck like he can't be like that, right? But maybe a voice other than yours. How about your husband? Does he? Does he try? Or is he just like, oh my god, please? I'm so close to retirement. Like what?

Cynthia 1:08:09
No, he's super supportive of me and her. I feel like he's sort of this, like neutral.

Scott Benner 1:08:15
Yeah, field, Switzerland, you know, like,

Cynthia 1:08:18
like, he'd like her to do heat. And he does see that he wishes she would do more to, and he helps with the, you know, nighttime stuff as well. So yeah, that he does remain more neutral. He doesn't get as emotionally involved as I tend to,

Scott Benner 1:08:37
I don't, I don't direct this at you. And I genuinely am not directing this at you, but you brought it up. So I'm gonna, like, go a little deeper into it before I am assuming you have to go to work before I let you go. That idea of like, oh, everyone's so supportive. I don't know what that means. Like, if you're not in there throwing hands with me, then I don't care that you're standing behind me going like go go go, I don't want go go go. I went get in here and help me hold this alligator down while I tie his mouth shut. Like Like, don't, don't just tell me you've got my back, like, get in the fight a little bit. And I hear that from so many people. Oh, she's so supportive. Or this one's tough. I'm like, I don't know what that means. Like, I'm struggling over here. I need help. I don't need support. Like, you know, when you know, when we won't need support when we're not resting on the alligator anymore. That's what we'll just go live our lives. So I just think that I think that in so many interpersonal relationships, somebody gets tasked with this terrible thing, mate, you have to do like having this embroiled, you know, conversation with your children you don't want to have and then there's always a person who stands the back and I heard somebody say to me one time it's not a person who's ever been on the podcast. I'm sure they may never be on the podcast. She said all my husband's a good man. He doesn't get involved in this though. I'm like, Well, I don't know. And all that means is a good man was he doesn't hit you. And he brings this paycheck home like 35. Like, how are we judging this? Exactly? You know what I mean? Like, this person is struggling mightily with a problem that her husband will not get involved in. And yet when it comes up, oh, he's a good guy. Oh, my God, you gotta raise your bar a little bit here. You know, like, I don't know what that means. Like, I like, I just I don't know what that means. You're having trouble, like, you need people to help you. You know, you're this is look at you. You're on your own your list. You're talking to me trying to figure a thing out. I mean, Cynthia, really, this is a bottom of the barrel move. You know, you're out of ideas. Lower. You're like, I will let my story be fodder for a podcast so that hopefully something comes up in the conversation that might help me that's desperate. Right. You know,

Cynthia 1:10:53
I honestly believe that there are a lot of mothers and probably fathers out there that are in exactly my same position.

Scott Benner 1:11:02
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, no.

Cynthia 1:11:06
A hard one. When these kids that are becoming adults.

Scott Benner 1:11:09
Oh, Cynthia, is this happening to everybody? Not just Oh, yeah, this is happening to absolutely almost everybody, except those of you who are lucky to have some, like, super type a kid who's just like, sees those numbers like a video game and just trying to like put them where they want. Right, right.

Cynthia 1:11:27
Yes. And those kids are out there for sure. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:11:31
Everyone else? This is a this is the game. Right, right here. Well, the next time I talked to one of the therapists that come on the show, I'm going to, I'm going to, I'll bring this up as a topic, and I'll see what I can do. But I mean, until she's willing to bend. I mean, right. I mean, any negotiation needs two sides to be willing.

Cynthia 1:11:54
Right? Yeah. And she has her moments. And so that's why I do believe she's going to get there. I just can't find the right negotiation tactic at this point. To get her there sooner. I just like to get her there sooner.

Scott Benner 1:12:13
I find myself wondering if the adults listening aren't thinking like, oh, just let it go. It'll work itself out. And then there's gonna be some who think don't let it go, because it's just gonna get worse. But I feel for you, and I right, I understand exactly how you feel. I have felt the exact same way. I mean, not the same situation, but I felt the same way.

Cynthia 1:12:33
And even the therapists that you know, so the professionals that we've turned to because you know, we don't have I don't have to have found a therapist that has type one or really can understand it. So they don't, they probably think I need to back off to

Scott Benner 1:12:50
you're not in California or you were not.

Cynthia 1:12:53
i Yeah, I've heard your

Scott Benner 1:12:55
Sarika is good. Erica. Yeah. Yeah, well, right.

Cynthia 1:13:01
Endo, and therapists, you know, they're kind of just

Scott Benner 1:13:05
you need, you need allies,

Cynthia 1:13:08
right? I've got no one. It's just me and my husband, he's definitely supporting

Scott Benner 1:13:13
people to come into the fight. They're going on the other side,

Cynthia 1:13:17
right. We're just trying to find that balance of not ruining our relationship with our daughter forever over this. I appreciate that. But then also, again, being you know, again, that, to me, her health is a non negotiable, you have to take care of it. And we do have some very strict guidelines on you know, if you're going to drive our car, your blood sugar's need to be here, you need to be doing these things. So

Scott Benner 1:13:42
that's all that's all. That's candy ash. I wish you were more east coast. Because you would have gotten on top of this a couple of years ago, I would have, okay, a couple of fearful moments would have snapped right in the place. I think. I picture picturing my father. I haven't told the story in a long time. But I was sick when I was younger, just something simple. And you know, everything wasn't as great as it is nowadays. And they gave us this giant pill. It was like this dry tablet was really hard to swallow. And I balked against swallowing it. And I think the next thing I remember is my dad's finger, just like you know, in my mouth, then I was like, oh, okay, I guess I can't

Cynthia 1:14:20
swallow, swallowing a lot.

Scott Benner 1:14:23
And again, I don't I'm not saying that that's the vibe, but in the 70s You know, in certain parts of the world, like you didn't, you didn't get a vote on how this happened. And if I was 18, and I and my dad was, you know, gone by them, but I don't think it would have mattered to him that I was 18 I certainly don't think so. Around stuff like that, like a medical right, or safety thing. You know, I think that I think that if I was 25 and I did something, you know, illegal I don't think it would be met with tell me how you feel. I think it would be met with You know, something far harsher? And, again, I don't think I'm not saying you should do that. I'm not even saying that I would do that. I'm just saying that there's somewhere in between where we are now. And where we came from has there has to be a balance in there somewhere like your daughter, not that I want people to be afraid. But she's not afraid of you at all. Because if she know if she was, she'd bend, you know what I mean? Like, there's no, again, I want to be clear, I'm not saying rule by fear. I'm just saying that things have swung so far in another direction, that when you get into an untenable situation, you have nowhere to go from here. Like you're now stuck hoping that your daughter figures out that her health and her life are valuable enough to pay attention to this, and that she can see through what the doctor saying, and all these other things that I'm pretty sure she's not equipped for. You know, it's a weird world. Yeah, you shouldn't have kids. This was your mistake.

Cynthia 1:16:01
That it was the third maybe I should have stopped.

Scott Benner 1:16:06
No, no kids are delayed. There's just times where it's like, it's so good in the beginning, right? And then like, even Yeah, it'll they're like 12 They're amazing. Even get some good ones that you know, up into 17. situ, but then right in that space 1821 in there, man. And they are really starting to like see things and but they don't see enough of it yet. The make a full form, right?

Cynthia 1:16:30
Yes, they don't have they don't really have a full vision, but yet they think they do.

Scott Benner 1:16:36
And if right now, if you're listening, and you're 21 you're like, Who the hell is it? But trust me, you are going to get to a spot where you look back on yourself at 21 and think you didn't know what I was talking about. That's amazing. And yeah, and that's part of the fun of life, actually, except when part of those things can be a medical issue that might cause like, real permanent problems. So wow, I'm sorry. Yeah, I was.

Cynthia 1:17:02
Okay. We're getting through it. And I mean, she's a great kid. So Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:17:09
I never meant to say otherwise.

Unknown Speaker 1:17:11
I know, I don't feel like yeah, good. Good. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:17:14
I'm sure. I'm sure it's gonna work out great.

Cynthia 1:17:17
makes it so hard. Just watching that. Yeah. Yeah. Knowing that there are just I mean, literally, just the Pre-Bolus alone, I think would keep her out of those three 350s 400. Sometimes we would. And then the other thing, I just can't understand that she has the Dexcom with these alarms with why you're not responding to the alarms just to respond to the alarm, and then

Scott Benner 1:17:44
come on up. Have you ever worked fine. Have you ever walked into the house and been like, I can't be the only one hearing that? Right? Yeah, but you are.

Cynthia 1:17:54
She wants me She wants me to bug her less about it. I'm like, so then respond to the alarm.

Scott Benner 1:18:01
You know why you hear it? And they don't, right? You hear it? Because you gave birth to her and you care about her thing on the whole planet. That's why there really is it's true. It is it is harder to care about yourself than it is to care about somebody else. That's that. And it's, it just becomes the truth. No one's going to care about her the way you do. It, just really, it ends up being, you know, honestly true. And I'm sure one day she'll meet somebody that is going to care about her a absolute ton. And then one day, they'll connect themselves together with family, maybe, and then they'll start having that feeling about each other. But I care about the woman in my house now, differently than I cared about her when she was my girlfriend, and differently than I cared about her when I was married to her and we didn't have kids. And that stuff grows. And you're just you're at the pinnacle of that right now. You know, you don't want anything bad to happen to her and trying everything you can think of to stop it. And that's a that's, I mean, that's the whole that's the gig. Right? That's the whole job. Right? Yeah. And, you know, the truth is, you don't have any real sway over that with your other two kids, either. You're just not seeing it as starkly because it's not medical. Right,

Cynthia 1:19:23
correct. Yeah. Correct. Yeah. And I mean, we definitely went through this with our other two children, for sure. You know, that, that when they have turned that magical 18 number when they're in high school, and they think that that means that they then should no longer have a curfew or house rules or anything. Right. You know, we went through that it's just on a different level when you introduce diabetes into it.

Scott Benner 1:19:45
Yep. No, I hear you. diabetes sucks. I hear what you're saying.

Cynthia 1:19:49
It does. Doesn't really does terrible.

Scott Benner 1:19:53
We're trying to make it more fun and more accessible and easier with the podcast. That's Mike All

Cynthia 1:20:00
right. And I do appreciate that I do find a good sense of community from it. I don't listen to it as much as I did, you know, in the beginning. And but so now I want to watch or listen more to episodes that look like they might apply more to me or especially product updates. I'm always interested in that, hoping that that Omni pod horizon will come out sometime soon.

Scott Benner 1:20:25
There are people listen, there are people who listen to it like it's religion. There are people who listen just the way you described, I think there are people who stay more in the the management topics. There are people who stay out of the management topics and love to convert, like there are people who are going to listen to this and love this. And because it's just a real conversation about anything like you, you and I could have. We could be on a podcast right now that's not about diabetes, and just be talking about raising kids and what it's like and teenagers right? would not have been any different. So yeah, so people listen, always, as long as you're subscribed in your podcast app. I am. That's what matters most listening,

Cynthia 1:21:06
I have a feeling I will probably transition to listening less and less in the years coming but it has been a great community resource to me over the year

Scott Benner 1:21:14
we completely believe and understand that so but never unsubscribe. Cynthia or Okay, Dr. House and take all the knowledge I gave you. I will take it back. Okay,

Cynthia 1:21:23
okay. I have even subscribed my daughter to it. I don't know that she's listened. But it is subscribed on her phone as well. So there you go. Oh, I

Scott Benner 1:21:32
hope she did make it listen,

Cynthia 1:21:33
I just hope that one day she'll be have nothing to do. And she'll be in her podcast app and think what is this?

Scott Benner 1:21:41
The kids have something to do constantly. Right? They're so connected to everything. It's, it's fascinating. What I imaginal hap, listen, if you want to make a prognostication what's gonna happen is what happens to everybody. Something's going to come up in her life that makes her realize that her health is important. And then she will hopefully find good answers to to lead her to those things. Like, if you listen to everyone, listen, first of all, let me just say this, Cynthia is a sentient being who can do whatever she wants, but you should all be listening to every episode. And so if you listen to those episodes, you'll hear those conversations, you'll hear people having that moment. And it's almost always tied to the concern for another person. It'll be she gets a boyfriend or a girlfriend, or whatever her deal is, and she loves them. And she's like, I want to be healthy and be around for this person. Or, you know, people have babies, and then they're like, oh, I have to be healthier for the pregnancy. And then now I need to be healthy to be here to take care of them. People, I think need to be needed. And when they are, then they see themselves as more important all of a sudden, like, I don't think people see themselves as important until they're tied to love is that the right word? Like I don't know, like, I guess you can love yourself and have that feeling. But you have to love something deeply enough that you want to be around for it. And I know that's not a that's not an absolute. But having conversations with people over and over and over again, if you really dig into what they're saying. They're saying at some point, I needed to be here, and I realized it. So I'm assuming she'll realize that too. Maybe it'll be art. Maybe it'll be like, whatever her love is or something. And it doesn't have to be a person. It could be a thing. It could be an idea. It could be a vocation, or calling or something. So maybe you just have to let go a little bit. And yeah, trust the process. That's what we did in Philly, and we're working to win a playoff spot and basketball, maybe fun. Yay. Trust the process. That's a very, I'm sure most people don't understand what I'm saying now. But we drafted a lot of people and traded them till we got the fight. We want it not not the point of this point is let go a little bit taller, you're concerned and your lover and you're here. She knows you understand it, right? Like the diabetes. Okay, so yeah, I think that you're inept.

Cynthia 1:24:16
Yes. And I think it's a little frustrating to her how much I understand it. I think she she thinks why are you doing this? You don't have diabetes, because again, for her, it's a me thing. Not a weed thing.

Scott Benner 1:24:30
So I went away. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to cut you off. I apologize. I went away this week. And Kelly said that in the first two days Arden's like, Don't worry, I have my diabetes. And she took she did a really great job. So but why did that happen? My wife didn't feel well. And so Artem was like okay, I'll take this off of her. And then it's just doing a very good job of it. And you Yeah, and but again, if Kelly would have kept doing it, then I guess Arden would have kept letting it get done. Cuz I'm like, I'm out of this. Like, if you need something, let me know.

Cynthia 1:25:12
And do you feel like Arden lets you do that just because you always have? I mean, what do you think she would be like had she not had diabetes until she was almost 16? Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:25:26
I don't know. Oh, my God, I probably would have to kill her. But I would probably have to dig a hole on some property somewhere and get rid of now I don't know, like, I have no way of telling. I mean, right, you got it when she was 16, it would have been more difficult. Like we had there's a Pentameter to our care, right, there's a way it flows and runs exactly right becomes accepted at some point. That's why I said in the very beginning, maybe if you would have like, just done it, then either would have been the power structure would have been in your favor. And then it would have drifted to her. Instead of it started in her favor, like you basically elected an actor as president. And you know what I mean, and now you're the like, the tried and true politician over here going, I don't think you understand how this works. It's like too late. I'm in charge, baby. You know, like,

Cynthia 1:26:17
the coaches telling her that she's doing it. Well. Yep. And she's doing a great job. So

Scott Benner 1:26:24
she thinks it's all going. Well tell her I said, it's not going bad. is nothing to be ashamed of. Right. She's doing well. There's just there's there's simple improvements to be made that would would reap incredible benefits. I know. Yeah. All right. Well, listen, shorter meat come in there and living in your house. I don't know what else to do knock some sense into her talk through it. You know, I mean, do you have any idea what you're going to do? With what with all of this, like, you're going to leave here and think about this? Do you have any idea what you're going to try next? Did anything make more sense than the other? Well,

Cynthia 1:27:03
you know, it's funny, the timing and that she's been on the pump for this few days. And it's going well, so at this point, I'm sort of trying to back off a little bit more, and let her do this pump. And just keep being the, you know, hey, if she's eating dinner with us, just keep providing the dinner's ready in 20 minutes, and it's 50 carbs reminder.

Scott Benner 1:27:29
Have you have you considered just adding directive to your reminder, so hey, dinner's in 20 minutes. It's gonna be 50 carbs Bolus now? Yeah,

Cynthia 1:27:40
yeah, I do. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah. I mean, she often doesn't, but, um, but sometimes she does. Let me she had a really good meal yesterday. So and like I said, it's going a little better. But I'm probably am. It's summer. Now. She has graduated. And I probably am going to start backing off more at night time and

Scott Benner 1:28:03
see what happens next.

Cynthia 1:28:04
Yeah, see what happens. Don't Don't worry. Maybe just follow up with her about how she feels. And and the other thing is, we are looking for a new doctor. Right. So I would think those would be kind of our two.

Scott Benner 1:28:17
Maybe you got to let her come to you a little bit on it. So yeah, right. Well, this was fun. And by fun, I mean, a clear, clear directive to single people not to have children. I think everyone heard that. Oh, my God. That's exactly how it was to my mom. I should avoid children. I would I would think we've stopped people from having sex right now. But this conversation like, I'm worth the risk,

Cynthia 1:28:39
right? Gosh, no, they're worth it. They're all worth it.

Scott Benner 1:28:43
It really is. I love having kids. Which is why I guess I can like joke about it. But still, I mean, honestly, if you look

Cynthia 1:28:52
hard, it's emotionally exhausting.

Scott Benner 1:28:55
You could find yourself in your early 20s and be like, hey, guess what's gonna happen? Never believe yourself. You'd be like, That's great. My kids are cool. I'm cool. It's gonna be great. Yeah, okay, fine. Anyway, good luck with all that. Thank you very much for doing this. A huge thank you to one of today's sponsors. G voc. Glucagon. Find out more about Chivo Kibo pen at G Vogue glucagon.com forward slash juicebox you spell that? G VOKEGL. You see ag o n.com. Forward slash Juicebox. Podcast was also sponsored today by the Dexcom G six continuous glucose monitor. And you could do no smarter thing today then to go to dexcom.com forward slash juice box and get started with the Dexcom G six. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.


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#590 Empty Nest

Scott Benner

Susan is an adult type 1 and a mother.

You can always listen to the Juicebox Podcast here but the cool kids use: Apple Podcasts/iOS - Spotify - Amazon MusicGoogle Play/Android - iHeart Radio -  Radio PublicAmazon Alexa or wherever they get audio.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 590 of the Juicebox Podcast.

On today's show, I'll be speaking with Susan. She is a person who emails me a lot. Not a ton, but a fair amount. And I liked her emails and thought, well, I bet I'd like Susan. And I did. And I think you might too. Please remember, while you're listening that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan, or becoming bold with insulin. I don't want to give this all away. So I'll just tell you that Susan was diagnosed at age 14, and she's just recently turned 60 years old. She's had type one diabetes for quite some time. Her experiences are interesting. Her perspective, unique, and her style is delightful. Hello. Hello. Hi.

Susan 1:08
Hi, Scott. Are you like I know you but you don't know me? It's very weird.

Scott Benner 1:14
I feel like you'd think you know me and I definitely don't know you. That's that's the that's the whole point of this right

Susan 1:22
now. So we don't see each other. Is that correct? It's just Yes, yes. Okay,

Scott Benner 1:27
that's fine. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the Contour Next One blood glucose meter. Find out more at contour next one.com forward slash juicebox. Get the meter that my daughter uses. This episode is also sponsored by Omni pod makers of the Omni pod dash and the Omni pod promise. You'll find out more about the promise later. But right now, let me tell you that if you're interested in finding out if you're eligible for a free 30 day supply of the Omni pod dash, it's just a click away at Omni pod.com forward slash juicebox.

Susan 2:04
Hi, I'm Susan. I live in Jacksonville, Florida, which I never thought I would live in. And I have had type one diabetes. Well, next month will be my 45th diversity. And so that you know, and I got it when I was 14, and had a bad start. Rough many, many years.

Scott Benner 2:27
Before I asked you about that. Do you broadcast your voice for a living? Or have you in the past? You have a very lovely voice?

Susan 2:33
Oh, you're so sweet. No, I was actually thinking about how I probably would hate my voice if I was hearing it today. And you know, but I just have to speak and not think about that. Because otherwise I would hate it. I probably mess something up.

Scott Benner 2:50
Of all the things that I know you're very welcome. But of all the things that I don't expect from people, that's one of them that they're very concerned with what their voice sounds like. And I always say the same thing. Like no one knows what you sound like either even you by the way, you don't know what you sound like,

Susan 3:04
well, we hear our voices through the bones in our heads. So we don't hear our voices the way other people hear though.

Scott Benner 3:11
No, but your your voice is smooth. It's a little creamy, a little smoky. And then you modulate once in a while. It's like you're doing it on purpose. But you're not are you?

Susan 3:21
No, not at all. That's really great, though, I do love the idea of like, reading out loud. I used to do that with you know, when my kids were little I read to them out loud and you know, good. And I listened to podcasts and books on, you know, on audio, so I know that it matter. You know what I was doing it very unconsciously.

Scott Benner 3:44
Well, no, it's so funny that that's what you thought of because the juxtaposition is, I was thinking, you know, back in the 80s when those adult phone lines were open, you probably could have made a lot of money.

Susan 3:57
So you can really still use a you know, like, a little from home occupation. So

Scott Benner 4:02
I don't think that business anymore, though. I mean, I think technology has gone past a lady on the phone being nice, too. So yeah, that's true. It's got to do you remember in back in the day like at midnight on you're watching television, all of a sudden like a stark phone number would pop up in front of you and some girl in what appeared to be a lingerie would start telling you to call her and you're like, why is this happening? And I really hope my parents don't see this.

Susan 4:31
She had real smoky creamy voice. I mean, that was over the top. Yeah, I think we I mean I know the type. I'm not that type but like yes, I remember.

Scott Benner 4:42
Alright, now you're like listen, this is not what I expected from this. Tell me

Susan 4:47
listen to enough of your own

Scott Benner 4:48
you thought this was my

Susan 4:50
baby you you know and and their conversations and that's that's really

Scott Benner 4:53
good. For you said 14 When you're diagnosed. I was How old are you now? Can I ask

Susan 5:00
Well 45th Diversity next month and my birthday is in October. So let's see calculator. So

Scott Benner 5:06
hold on 45 is easy. And then you add 10 to it. That's what I would do. 55 And then you got to get the four that you left behind. That makes you 59

Susan 5:15
That is correct. And I've tried ever since I turned 50 I've trained myself to not be embarrassed to say that because it is a little bit of a mind bender. When inside you feel young, and I do feel young inside in so many ways. I don't feel like what my impression when I was young of what a six year old would be. So, and I have friends of all different ages, which I really love, and I really proud of that. So, um, yeah, I'm gonna be 60 in October. Anyway, so yeah, 14 years old, we change things I would

Scott Benner 5:52
imagine. So do you remember anything about it?

Susan 5:56
About my diagnosis? I remember. So it happened in June when I actually finally got a diagnosis. I do remember. I was in eighth grade. And I remember spending, like probably two semesters of running to the water fountain as soon as class would let out. You know, impeding lot all the classic symptoms. But my mother who was usually a, you know, run them to the doctor at the first sniffle. I think subconsciously, she knew something was really going down. And I think she was I'm surmising here. But I do think she just, she knew that I had a regularly scheduled doctor's appointment in June. So we waited it out. And I do also remember that the last week or two before that doctor's appointment, I was too sick to go to school, like I was home, and I remember orange juice, I remember going to a fair, we would have a memorial day fair in our town, and there would be you know, Slurpees and can be cotton and stuff like that. And I was not like a big sweets person. But I remember like really screwy dietary choices. Because I didn't know what was going on in my body. Anyway, then I got my diagnosis. Um, you know, I was in the hospital, my parents came in, and they were like deer in the headlights. And I kind of sort of said a 14 year old, who didn't know what she was doing loose, you know, to her own devices. And my doctor was not I, you know, if they, if it were my kid now, I would switch them to an endo right away. But they let my primary care physician be you know, do everything. And I remember leaving the hospital after about a week saying, shouldn't I get a special diet or something? And I was told, you can eat what you always eat. Just don't eat too much sugar. I mean, oh my God. Is that bad advice? Or what? So honestly, I don't even know how I stumbled through the last 40 years. I really don't. And I consider myself very, very lucky that I do not have any severe complications.

Scott Benner 8:33
That's I mean, I, I'm a little frozen by it not because not because my experience was so much different, or that things are so much different now. But because of what you just said that you came out the other side. So like, not effortlessly, but well? And how? Like, do you ever think about that, like the randomness of Lacan? Oh, yeah.

Susan 8:58
Because I think some of it was genetics, you know, because I can't account for it any other way. And I just like, I didn't know what I was doing. And it wasn't till. Honestly, there was it was, it's been a life journey that I kind of only embraced in stages. So I met my future husband when we I was in my late 20s. And that was the beginning of kind of wanting to take care of myself better. I mean, no one ever said, Hey, listen, you're really going to have to do this on your own. And because you see your endo like once every three months, like they can't live with you every day. So you're gonna have to do this and you're good. You better study about it too. And I really just ignored all of that. And then I you know, and then I we decided we wanted to get pregnant and you know, I know knew I had to take care of myself on a different level to do that, in preparation for it. And during the pregnancy,

Scott Benner 10:06
did you know that the doctor told you? Or was it a feeling?

Susan 10:10
Um, I don't, I'm trying to remember if it was like me reading or the doctor taught parallely both, but there was that image of you want to make your body your incubation incubator, like as, as close to normal as possible. And so as a pregnant mother, you're, you're, you're thinking, Oh, my goodness, like, oh, day 72 My blood sugar's high. What part of the baby is developing today that I could be affecting for its life? So you know that yeah, I was really aware that I had to be really, really careful. And my blood sugar's were great. I was still on multiple daily injections. I had an endo at the time, I was living in New York City at the time, and my endo had said, I had asked him about these newfangled things called pumps, like, and he said to me, I know you, Susan, you it will remind you all the time that you're diabetic, you will not like having one. And that was really bad advice. And I don't know whether he some people have suggested that maybe he just didn't know how to help you, you know, have a patient with a pump? And I don't know, I'm not going to pin that on him. Maybe he really did think he knew me.

Scott Benner 11:33
Um, maybe maybe people should keep the first thought they have inside of their head till they're sure about it. That's a problem that people had like, oh, occurred to me what's

Susan 11:42
happening is when my son became a toddler, I found that I could not you know, I my blood sugar's were all over the map, because I was dealing with him first and dealing with me after. And I just thought, and by then we were living in New Jersey, and I had a different Endo, who had handed me a VCR. Remember, VCRs, she'd handed me a VCR, about about pumps from one of the pump companies. And she said, Just keep it. You know, one of these days, maybe you'll watch it, maybe you'll be interested. And I remember seeing it in my VCR player, when my kid was about two, two and a half. And because I thought I'll never have any more children. If these are my blood sugar's I can't do it right now. And I looked at that video, and I said, Oh, my goodness, I need one yesterday. And we got a pump really fast. I believe it wasn't an sunshine, remember, because we I did stay anonymous for a good long time. Until they

Scott Benner 12:52
I'm amazed that your endo gave you a VCR tape and gave you the instruction like you hear from people when they want you to think about life insurance. Take the packet home, look at it when you have time. Yeah, that's interesting.

Susan 13:06
I guess the older the other end, is, his voice was in my head, maybe? Like this isn't? Yeah, she didn't give me a hard sell, which was probably fine. Because then when it was meant to be then I moved on head. So then oh, and the other thing that first endo had said to me was, I challenge you to show me a person on a pump that has as good blood sugars as you do now, I did get through a twin pregnancy on MDI, and they were good blood sugars. But, you know, of course, I don't know if he was looking at the hemoglobin a one C at the time, because we know that that is not like I knew I was getting highs and lows. Not not necessarily during the pregnancy, that I mean about that all the other times,

Scott Benner 13:55
what's that, like? Cuz you're, you're, you're an adult, right? Like, I don't mean that other people on here on adults. I mean, you've got experience on top of decades. So what is that really like when you know the truth, and yet the person across from you is gone. You're doing great. And when when he says or she says you're doing great, and you're thinking I'm not I almost fell over on the kitchen floor the other day, and then my budget was 400 After I corrected it, like, why not speak up? It feels like going to a mechanic and you know, the car won't stop and the mechanic goes, I This thing's great. You just go okay, and you drive away like why not go no, no, no, the brakes don't work. Help me.

Susan 14:33
Well, I'll tell you exactly why. You know, it took a long time to change a mindset because I you know, I had been in that particular group for a very long time. That's one thing. I didn't have a I didn't have a concept of really, where my blood sugar's should be like what was truly healthy and I will tell you one other thing about my lows. I think I've been enormously fortunate. I've never had a seizure. I know that you had that experience with Arden. I've never had a seizure. I have never passed out. I passed out once in my adult life and had nothing to do with diabetes, believe it or not.

Scott Benner 15:19
Is it when you found out you had to move to Florida? Pardon me? Did I find that I had to move to Florida?

Susan 15:26
Honestly, where Jacksonville isn't like the rest of Florida, and we really love it here isn't

Scott Benner 15:30
people from all over Florida, listen to the podcast be nice.

Susan 15:34
Like we'd like our community very much. Um, but no, I just, um, I think I that was never I haven't been afraid of Lowe's. Or maybe some of that was ignorance. I mean, when after hearing some stories on your podcast, I think, oh, you know, maybe you should be a little bit more concerned. I could feel them even before I had the technology to show me where my blood sugars were heading. I could feel them I never was insulin on or, you know, low unaware. And I would treat them and I never walk out of the house without juice boxes. So you know, I love the name of your podcast is very close to that. Is it like small ones, I found the small with

Scott Benner 16:18
the tiniest ones to fit in your purse, I'm always worried when I give them the art. I'm like they're gonna break open in there and ruin the purse. Like that's what I always think about and never happens. And I'm always by the way, whoever makes juice boxes is an engineering genius, because you can basically throw them around and squeeze them and they won't break anyway, props to that person.

Susan 16:35
I've had like, some be carried around long enough so that they start to lose their shape. And then they will start to leave.

Scott Benner 16:47
You think yourself, I'm going to throw this one out. This one's done its job even though I haven't drank it? Or do you? Or do you follow through and trick?

Susan 16:56
Oh, um, it depends on if it's an emergency. Yeah. I mean, honestly, if it's starting to leak, I'm throwing it. But if you you know, if I've discovered it, say I'm in my bedroom, minutes the morning and I'm refilling my handbag or something, right? You know, if I'm somewhere, you know, it's Yeah, try doing a try doing a juice box with a mask on on an airplane. I didn't do that. I decided that was not going to work because I recently flew to California, like, can't do it. It's a two handed proposition in order to remove the bottom part of your mask. If you're really trying to keep masked, you just can't

Scott Benner 17:36
you imagine a person sitting next to you doesn't know you're that's like this lady's breaking the mask rules to have a juicy juice. Let's

Susan 17:45
see, when my kids were little. I mean, my kids kind of understood that this was mommy's medicine. But I remember a friend of theirs. One day, looking at me we were sitting in, in our synagogue, and he looked at me and it was really young. And he wanted one too. And I'm so sorry, this is like,

Scott Benner 18:08
get away kid. I saw a gentleman at an event one time, who had type one who was a massive person, you know, he was six, four and probably weighed 240 pounds, and he was this huge guy. And he was walking around drinking this juice. And it was it just looked so much tinier in his hand than it does anywhere else. And it, it felt both kind of initially ridiculous. And then the more I looked at him, I thought looking help kind of like effortlessly and without consideration. This grown GIANT PERSON is wandering around and just drinking it felt nice afterwards that he didn't feel automatic, you know what I mean? But yeah, but back to my question, though, like so all that time prior. And the doctor just tells you like hay, whatever you say you have to change your your perspective. And your idea of what good is and you're telling a common story that most people tell I met a person I wanted to be healthier, I want to have children I want to be healthier, like that kind of stuff that seems to be very human that idea of I don't need to better myself until it benefits someone else I've given up on understanding it just seems like that's how it is.

Susan 19:18
I think I connected that actually embrace like I do now, but I know now that the bad, right? Take care of myself that, you know, then then, like I have to pay a lot of attention to diabetes in order to have a better quality of life. And in the past I thought that ignoring the diabetes, which is like good, it was rare, and I had to deal with it when it was too high or too low. But I really like oh my goodness when you're on it. Well, when I first started taking injections, it was Lintian regular and it sets your course for the day. Yeah, you You know, and I balked against that. And honestly, I don't think it was ever Well, I was ever well schooled in it. But I just like, pumps were made for me I needed to be able to live my life in a, you know, where life was coming first, not whatever schedule was set for me and I and as I said, my parents were deer deer in the headlights, so I didn't really, they didn't know what was going on. They didn't really try to educate themselves. You know, I wasn't sent to diabetes camp. I didn't know any other type one diabetics for decades.

Scott Benner 20:42
Right. And you were was an island. My math is right. You were diagnosed in the mid 70s. Ish. Yeah,

Susan 20:48

  1. Everyone was else was celebrating the, you know,

Scott Benner 20:53
the centennial? Well, but my where I was going with that is, do you remember how old your parents were around that time? Ish?

Susan 21:02
I could figure it. Let's see. Yeah, mom would have been about 44 Because she had me when she was 30. So

Scott Benner 21:09
your mom was born in the mid 30s? Then? Pardon me? Your mom was born in the mid 30s. Meaning that she grew up in a world where like, people got sick and died. Like it wasn't she hurt her space wasn't, you know, like, oh, you get sick and then someone figures it out. Or they give you this neat medicine that does something or it was like she was only mean, she grew up in a time where friends died, where people went to the hospital didn't come back for things that today you don't even think of as being dangerous. That's so interesting. I'm sure she's passed now. But that'd be very interesting to hear from somebody. Like I wonder if you were diagnosed and she just thought, Oh, we lost one.

Susan 21:48
Well, here's the irony of irony. Well, first of all, she I was her firstborn. And she had already lost a brother in infancy. Not infancy. But like toddler, a young adulthood like maybe four to leukemia, and then another brother in the Korean War, so No, she wasn't gonna let me go easily, I don't think. But um, where was I going with that? I don't know. I don't remember

Scott Benner 22:22
when you said Korean War. It made me think of mash. So my head just awful. Oh, yeah.

Susan 22:26
I remember the first episode. Like literally, I remember watching it.

Scott Benner 22:30
Yeah, I know. People don't understand that idea anymore. It's like being somewhere on a day to time to watch TV show. But yeah, but But my point just was, I wonder how much control she felt like she had probably none. And maybe she thought you were a better option than she was. Which is ridiculous. I mean, you are a parent of a parent that you know, 14 year olds are not really good at things.

Susan 22:56
Well, I was terrible. I will also say, In her defense. I was a very headstrong kid. And if someone tried I mean, she probably, you know, first of all, she she did trust my intelligence. But, you know, I don't think she had an any clue as to what she was really, you know, leaving me up to here. But I really was very headstrong. So, um, was she

Scott Benner 23:24
aware that you would get dizzy that you would like that the things that would happen to you because, you know, it just occurs to me while we're talking that you've had so much experience with this. I'm not calling you old. I'm just saying it's it's it's a nice thing like you have a depth and length of experience to be able to tell me if living prior to faster acting insulin pumps, the CGM that I did. Did you just feel like you're? I don't know, driving with your eyes closed and just waiting to hit something to turn the other direction?

Susan 23:58
In retrospect, absolutely. And Apple spec completely,

Scott Benner 24:01
how much do you think that impacted your life? I'm gonna start today by speaking about the Omni pod tubeless insulin pump. My daughter who is 17 years old has been wearing it on the pod every day since she was four every day beyond the pod, and it has been nothing but a friend through this entire time on the pod is tubeless. It is wireless. And it is lovely. Just this little pod that you where it holds the insulin right inside of it. And so it doesn't have to be connected back to some controller that's holding your insulin. It's all with you constantly. When you need to make an adjustment or give yourself insulin. You pull out a little handheld device. And you push a couple of buttons. Bada bing, bada boom, it's all done. Back in your bag back in your pocket with the device. And that's that this tubeless thing it's important because you can Shower bave swim with the Omni pod on you don't have to take it off all of the other insulin pumps that are wired like that you have to take them off to enter the water not with Omnipod isn't that convenient? It is. How about when you're playing sports or doing activities where you're worried that your tubing might get caught? You don't have that concern with an omni pod. Now you can go to Omni pod.com forward slash juicebox to find out more about this. But before you go, let me tell you this one brief story. It's crazy. And it's true. A friend of mine recently broke their finger in an insulin pump tubing accident, how I realized that is a something that's not going to happen every day. But as soon as I heard that, I thought, well, that wouldn't happen with Omni pod. No tube. Don't worry, she's okay. Omni pod.com Ford slash juice box head over and find out. If you're eligible for the free 30 day supply of the Omni pod dash insulin pump. You can also ask them to send you a free demo pod. We're just poke around the website. And if you're thinking Well, Scott, I will but maybe not today because I'm waiting for that next big thing from Omni pod. If you're thinking that you don't have to because there's no need to wait for the next big thing because with the Omni pod promise you can upgrade to Omni pods latest technologies for no additional cost as soon as they're available to you and covered by insurance terms and conditions apply. But like I said, they promise you can upgrade. So get started with Dash today. And if something different comes out later that you want Omnipod promises you can upgrade. Alright, now let me tell you about the Contour Next One blood glucose meter. It is small, easy to hold easy to use has a super bright light is incredibly accurate and offers Second Chance test strips. Honestly, that's all I should have to tell you. I should stop right there and go contour next one.com Ford slash juicebox. But I'm going to tell you more, I'm going to give you my opinion, it's super simple when it comes to blood glucose meters. In my opinion, we don't pay enough attention to the quality of the meter, the quality of the number that comes back from the test, is it accurate? It's important, and for some reason, we don't think about it, we just take whatever meter the doctor gives us. You don't have to do that. The Contour Next One blood glucose meter may be cheaper in cash than you're paying right now through your insurance for your meter. It is definitely incredibly accurate. And it offers Second Chance testing means if you touch that strip to blood, but don't get quite enough, you can go back and get more without ruining the test strip or the quality of the results. It's important so just look into it. Contour Next One comm forward slash juicebox take a couple of minutes to upgrade your gear. Do you really want to be making decisions with bad numbers? Of course not.

Susan 28:09
Tell me how much

Scott Benner 28:10
do you think that reality impacted your life?

Susan 28:13
Of not of kind of driving blind?

Scott Benner 28:17
Yeah, of the feeling that you're walking around? Knowing that at any moment, without without any kind of warning, someone might run up behind you and smack in the back of the head like do you mean like your? Is that not how it felt like it feels to me that's what it would be like but I don't

Susan 28:34
I think because you're so schooled in it your daughter was diagnosed and you made it your business because um, because we're able to write we have the internet we've got all this these tools. I you know, I? I've I think I got by by ignoring the reality you're talking about. I really do. I don't think I am. Okay. I think as much as I could, you know, and there were times when I couldn't ignore it like when I was okay, so I've heard of parents who worried that their their diabetic child shouldn't live alone. I was fearless. I moved you know, we I grew up in the suburbs of New York northern suburbs. And, you know, when it was time for me to go to school, I left high school early and you know, graduated early and went straight to New York City. And never for a moment do I remember my parents ever saying they were worried, you know, worried I wouldn't wake up one morning or worried. You know, I'm fearless. I was fearless about it. You know, not only in retrospect does it occur to me that maybe maybe they shouldn't worried or maybe I should worried. Um, so when I was your age mean, I ended up I did end up in DKA. And I ended up in the hospital. I remember the Shah of Iran was in the same hospital at the Time that dates me a bit. Um, and, you know, and then I think after that I kind of went back to how I

Scott Benner 30:08
muddled through where did the K come from? Did you stop giving yourself insulin?

Susan 30:13
No, I just must have really been out of whack. No, no, I never, you know, I never did any of those like, Oh, don't give your you know, manipulate your insulin, so you'll lose weight? I, I don't think I understood that one could even do

Scott Benner 30:29
I feel like that back then. There are some people who would just stop taking their insulin in silent protest. I never did that. Yeah. And I think it's interesting, because it is a personal protest it and if anybody, anyone listening has ever done that, who wants to come on and talk about specifically, I'd be thrilled about that. But just the idea of like, I don't want to have diabetes anymore. Let me see how long I can go without paying attention to it. That wouldn't work very well, no, no. It doesn't work well. But I don't think that it was uncommon. Or maybe it's still common for people.

Susan 31:01
I will tell you a couple of things that I think are, in retrospect, surprising. One is that I never felt sorry for myself. And I still don't, I think between my parents like I couldn't, I knew the minute I was diagnosed, I knew intrinsically that I was stuck with this for life. And so that and somehow feeling sorry for myself, didn't seem like it was gonna get me anywhere. I'm not that I didn't have depressions about other things at different parts of my life. But I've never said I it's interesting, isn't it that I've never sat around feeling sorry for myself about the diabetes. And in fact, now with some of that wisdom, and everything, I look at some of the things that diabetes has brought me in terms of my relationship with my body as blessings, like I talked about the blood, oh, that's one of the blessings of like, the fact that I'm so I did become Oh, and here's another Okay, I did become very aware of my body. As much as I wasn't like maybe in terms of diabetes, in terms of other things. What was going into my body diet wise, I became, you know, pretty, I have a baseline knowledge of nutrition. So I think one of the other things, not just the luck, and the genetics, but also the fact that I have mostly been vegetarian, or a fish eating that, you know, a pescatarian.

Scott Benner 32:32
Specifically, one of my questions, yes. What, like

Susan 32:35

  1. So I do think that's helped a lot. And in fact, I used to, it used to annoy me when I used to get diabetes forecast years ago in the mail, which I did only sporadically and probably hardly ever really looked at one of the things that annoyed me about it was that I felt like they should be shouting from the rooftops that everyone should be vegetarian, like, it seemed to make so much sense to me. But you know, they didn't do that.

Scott Benner 33:01
I was in that magazine. Once. That's all I wanted to say about that.

Susan 33:05
You were in it. Oh, now I have to go look, I don't

Scott Benner 33:07
know where I just remember having somebody send me a copy and say, Look, they're talking about you in this thing. And I was like, Oh, I didn't know how to feel about that. It was, it was fun. At the time. I don't know where the magazine is now. But so you got to something on your own that I've been wondering the whole time you were talking. Because it wasn't just luck. It was you were kind of for many years, just putting in insulin eating on a schedule, but not eating really high carb or high sugar items. So the insulin was probably having a good go of it against the food, even though you're pretty blind to it, because you're just really testing that a one C every once in a while. And so your health was able to stay there. Like isn't that strange that if you would have been like a different eater, you'd have a different outcome right now.

Susan 33:59
I think that's true, but I will I can remember vividly in high school. thinking, Oh, could my blood sugar slow I can have some Haagen Dazs No, I mean, I wouldn't do that. No, in fact, it really has taken me a so long it's been such a journey. But i i In fact, I'm my mantra these days is treat your Lowe's with with you know with some juice that you can titrate because food even if you know what's on the package with then we love nutrition labels right? It doesn't it doesn't treat it the same way and it you know it can throw me off so like don't forget just have the juice don't look at it as an opportunity to have this blueberries or that you know, whatever. Whatever the name, you know, filling your own food. I'm still learning still learning so much.

Scott Benner 34:55
It's hard. It's hard. Must be hard. I should say not to have that feeling because I've seen that happen to all and where she's like, wait, I'm getting low, and she lights up. She's like, this is my shot, you know, and then she'll roll into the kitchen and just grab something that she normally wouldn't eat. I think

Susan 35:11
she's so lucky to have you to catch it on the other end. I mean, because you you're, when I first started listening to this podcast and listen to the way you in fact, when I first started listening, it confused me a little about whether it was you you had diabetes, or your daughter because you would speak about it like it was yours. But which is kind of beautiful. I never had a parent that did or anyone who did that, right. Well, I mean,

Scott Benner 35:41
it's very nice of you to say it that way. Because that's not usually how I hear back from adults with type one about it. They're like, you talk about like, you have it, you don't have it, they're mad. And I'm like, I don't think I have diabetes. And I certainly am not trying to sound like I do. Oh, you know,

Susan 35:55
people are too critical Yeah, I went I went cold turkey from Facebook a while a couple of years ago, and yeah, I don't miss it. And and I just like it's it's just a wash with people who take, you know, feel safe being critical of each other.

Scott Benner 36:13
I think all those people should try recording their conversations for five hours every week and see if they don't once or twice, speak it in a way that they don't mean. You know what I mean? Like if I yeah,

Susan 36:25
like, I try not to be too judgy

Scott Benner 36:26
you're very nice. Well, okay, so, a lots happened so far. Let's figure out what to do next you so you've kept up this eating style your whole life. Alright, and

Susan 36:40
how much except when I went to Europe at one point where I didn't want any dietary restrictions, so I ate you know, everything that everything and anything that was put in front of me not I don't remember desserts so much what I remember is eating like sausages, which I you know, I am Jewish, I did not grow up in a kosher home. I'm quite kosher now. But I had a squid, I mean, I like everything. And I do remember going to bed with bottles of Perrier, like just taking him up to bed with me. And I knew how to say I am diabetic in like three languages at the time, just so I could get, you know, get through what

Scott Benner 37:26
you needed. So your idea was just you're going to culturally experience what exists where you are?

Susan 37:32
Yeah, I just wanted to I dropped the vegetarianism for a period of time and then and then picked it up again. Later, a few years later, it really kind of it took a few years to get back to

Scott Benner 37:45
it. I'm the only one in the house that really likes fish. And then, which means I don't get fish. Do you don't mean? So I wish I lived with more people who enjoyed the same food I did.

Susan 37:56
But yeah, you should come to my house, I met Craig fish.

Scott Benner 38:00
Thank you, I would like

Susan 38:04
Jacksonville, I just

Scott Benner 38:05
you know, you find yourself in a situation where you're cooking for other people. And you're think, Oh, this isn't what I would make if I was cooking for myself. But okay, here we go.

Susan 38:14
Yeah, I I've been two of my three just moved out of the house across the country. And already the load is so much lighter. And I don't have to, you know, I've only got three different taste buds to cater to instead of five.

Scott Benner 38:30
So it's kind of nice. What's that like to have adult children move far away? That's one of my big fears.

Susan 38:38
Well, I'm, I'm very excited for them. And they've been wanting to go to LA for quite a while the only thing that stopped them was when LH locked down. And we were finally able to talk sense into them. And then of course, I made sure that they were both vaccinated before I would let them go. Other than that, you know, I raised my kids to be independent, and they neither, neither of them wanted to go to college. There's still money sitting there waiting for them. If they ever decide the booth, I have a house full of creatives. And they are both musicians. And you know, so I finally said, okay, then since I don't understand how you think you're going to land there, you know, by just looking up apartments online. Maybe one of you should come out with me and we'll try to find you an apartment so at least then I'll know where you're going to be right, right. And that's what we did. And now Now they and then they rented a Penske Truck and they drove across country.

Scott Benner 39:44
Wow. See, all of that sounds amazing. But what about the part where you don't get to talk to them or see them as frequently?

Susan 39:51
Well, I'm not to say not not gonna say I'm not going to miss them because I will. And I have my own agenda. because I've put my life on hold for many, many years to raise them. So I'm looking forward to I'm an artist that doesn't get to really do much art. And I'm really looking forward to getting back to my studio. And we are planning a trip to LA in July, so we will get to see them. And you know, and there's technology and FaceTime. And I think I think they will be calling quite a bit because they're really it's the first time on their own. Even my 22 year old he was home all this time. Yeah, since high school graduation. And so it's really the first time navigating life right, you know, in a big city in Los Angeles, and I think they'll be calling, I

Scott Benner 40:48
have to tell you the whole thing sounds right. And that's what I hope to I done the same thing I want my kids to be, you know, artists already talking about where to go, and she's still in high school. And my son makes you know, a lot of comments like, Well, when I moved to wherever I move to, but I feel like means, you know, I think sometimes you bring your kids up in a nice suburb, because you want it to be like cozy and safe and nice. And what it ends up feeling to them is boring. You know, and then they're like, Oh, let me roll out of here. And I'm excited for all that, that they would consider it that they would do it that they're not scared at all that makes me happy. I just don't want to not see them. But I'm wondering if I would get to a point like you were I'm just like, Yeah, I did my time. Like, I'm good. You know, like, I'll see him when I say him, that that kind of seems beautiful to me.

Susan 41:34
So, my lovely mother that we've talked about a couple of times already, um, she really, there was a I mean, she was she was a really good mother. And I as I get older, I feel how much of her is in me and she was a very kind person. The the part where there was a mismatch is that she just wanted you to kind of she wanted me to be demonstrative demonstratively close and loving to her. And because she didn't give me the space to come to her, she always made the all the first moves. That the headstrong kid that I was I kind of backed away. And I have never done that to my own kids because of my own experience. I've always and because also their boys, you know, there comes a time where, oh, gosh, we can't have public displays of affection. Right? So I you know, I would ask them, you know, can I have a hug? i My boys are extremely affectionate. And I think I'm so lucky. I'm so I, you know, I think it even in this moving out part, I think letting them call when they have the time and when they need to. For me, that's the way to go. Now my husband's a little different. He's the one who's who's going to have his, you know, way harder empty nest syndrome, because he's also the one who went to work every day in his not nine to five job and miss, you know, a lot of day to day interaction with them.

Scott Benner 43:19
Oh, so when they were older and decided not to go to college, that's probably the most time he got to spend with them.

Susan 43:25
Yeah, and all three of them have made that same decision. And we're talking about, you know, coming from a mother who, you know, I only got my Bachelor's, but I went to college, my husband, you know, he's, he went on and got ordination. I mean, he's, he, he's, my kids are lifelong learners, though. They're very, very, they're very, they're like, one of them's actually an autodidact. I would call him he's such a, you know, an independent learner. So, I mean, I don't worry about them, but they know that it's there as an option. The thing about college, and I think it'll help you to think about this is that it is like a halfway house to life. It's like the safe halfway house, they can be independent, they're in a safer environment than if you just let them out loose in LA, but that's what my kids want to do, and I can't live my life for them. So I hope you know your listeners don't last you for this guest but I really you know, I think they're gonna be fine.

Scott Benner 44:37
No, no, I appreciate your message. I also think that you know, everyone listening to as little kids you know, you guys can't wrap your head around it, you know that you're just one day gonna be like, Alright, go ahead, leave goodbye. But it's gonna happen. So, you know, it's not going to not happen. And

Susan 44:54
this is what we raised them for me. We raised them to be independent stand on their own two feet. Think your life out, you know, this is how I raised them anyway,

Scott Benner 45:03
oh, I've thought of my life very, you know, very simply, I just, I want to do a really good job with my kids. And then I want to hopefully have enough time to do something fun at the end. Like it just seemed to me, like, pretty basic.

Susan 45:21
I know. And I had my kids later. And I mean, I had my, I had the last two who were 18 Now, you know, I was 40 When I gave birth to them. So, I've been waiting a long time to, you know, take this maturity that I've gained, and this time on, they'll have and, like now live my life again. And I just always prayed that I will live long enough to you know, to create things that I'm proud of and feel like I'm leaving, you know, something behind and you know, all the all the art that's in my head that I'm hoping to create that it that I may I have enough time to get it out.

Scott Benner 46:02
I know how you feel. I always think that whenever whoever leaves last will leave I'll close the door backup trip, quick. bang my head on the table and Trump dead? Don't be like No, as I'm falling over, I think no, no, just no need to get a little more lucky at the end. Hey, do you have any other autoimmune issues?

Susan 46:23
Yes, I have a thyroid deficiency. I actually did recently get tested to see if it was Hashimotos or not, and it is not. And I've had that since I was 15. So it was about a year after I was diagnosed and yes, there are in my family to my both my grandmother and my mother ended up with type two diabetes after I you know, I kind of I always joked that I was ahead of the trend like everyone everyone's getting diabetes. Now I you know, I was ahead of the curve even in my own family. Um, and yeah, I think it all comes on my mom's side my my grandmother had rheumatoid arthritis. My mother ended up with something called myelofibrosis which, you know, ended up killing her but she she definitely lasted beyond what the doctors predicted. I think that's pretty much it for me

Scott Benner 47:28
and the kids are, don't have anything going on.

Susan 47:31
Um, one of my kids has GERD you know, he has reflux, but I don't think that is I don't know if that's considered autoimmune. No, they're pretty there's some allergies and we Yeah, no, they're they're pretty. Pretty good. Thank God. Yeah.

Scott Benner 47:53
Huh. esophagus itis is often caused by stomach fluid that flows back into the food pipe. The fluid contains acid which irritates the tissue. The problem is called. Wow, I'm not going to try to say that but it's GERD. An autoimmune disorder called ISO philic. Asafa giantess is also causes this condition. So guards not. But there is a condition. That's all I mean, they can cause it apparently.

Susan 48:20
Interesting. I'll have to look that up. No, I mean, there definitely runs in my family on my dad's side. My dad died of esophageal cancer and his older brother did and that doesn't run in families, but GERD can. And that's a precursor. It can cause esophageal cancer. How

Scott Benner 48:42
old was your father?

Susan 48:44
My dad was around 70. A

Scott Benner 48:48
little older I am. They found that I had a little bit of that too. So when I, when they couldn't figure out my iron thing at first, and I got you know, I don't know what they call it. But I got scoped from both sides. Right. They find lots of fun, right? Yeah, there's like, I know, it's not really it's not precancerous, but there's some sort of cells that they find on the wrong side of like your stomach in your esophagus, like so there's like some stomachs. I guess, if I'm wrong about this, I apologize. But I guess something that belongs to my stomach is in my esophagus. And then they just go back every couple years and check and the guy's like, Oh, if we find it, we'll just like, clean it out. And he's like, you know, if you pay attention to it should never cause you a problem. But it is one of those things that could lead to what what not your father apparently.

Susan 49:36
Right, right. No, you definitely have to take care of it. And scoping as fun as that is. That's I guess that's the best way and you've got a doctor who's on it. So, you know, that's, that's it. I mean, EMRs gotten scoped. And my sister's got Barrett's esophagus. My uncle, my dad's younger brother has Barrett's so I, to the best I've been scoped to, to the best of my knowledge. I Do not have the issue. But God knows. I've got enough others. So, yeah, our meeting I have, like I've taken up a lot of time here

Scott Benner 50:10
Barrett's is what? Like, I heard in the conversation, but it's like precursor to I don't remember, I maybe I should have paid closer attention. You can look it up. So it turns out in the moment, when, uh, when it was when I was going through it, my iron was so low, I couldn't pay attention. So it's much better. Yeah, well, this is, um, you know, I have to tell you that I get a lot of notes from people thanking me for having on you know, they say older people who have type one. But I just, I guess it's just sort of a, because of the way social media works, and where the sweet spot is, for the ages of people who are most commonly on social media people over 50 Get a little ignored. You know, just because they're not as common online, but I think they are common, I just don't think you hear from them as much.

Susan 51:01
I used to be, but I'm just not anymore. Um, because I want to live my life and not, you know, not through a screen so much. But I will tell you, it was social media that first made me feel less of an island. I was I was feeling so alone, one night, many years ago. And I thought to myself, someone out there's got to be, you know, writing about type one diabetes or something. And I found six until me carry sparlings. Blog. And that was like, I read it regularly for a while, because it made me feel less alone when someone else is getting their tubing stuck on, you know, on handles in the bathroom. And it was just, like, just the little things about having to live with this. I just loved it. And I felt less alone.

Scott Benner 51:55
I think her I think her blog is closed up now. I don't think she

Susan 51:59
Yeah, I know. I went back to it recently and saw that it was closed. And other things.

Scott Benner 52:05
I guess you can only write about your tubing getting caught not and she I'm joking. She heard a lot that a lot more than that. But I guess at some point, you just run your course with things. You know, I don't know her.

Susan 52:18
She also I mean, sounds like she also turned to other things. Like she's wrote poetry and wrote a book. And that's really, our blog was enormously useful. It was, you know, I didn't immerse myself in every single person writing about diabetes, like I, you know, I don't have that kind of time anyway. So I found hers. I liked it. You know, in terms of podcasts, I've done yours. And I liked it. Like, I don't listen to other ones. So there's no reason you should know Exactly exactly. Because yours is the best we know. Well, that I

Scott Benner 52:51
mean, not just that, but because how much are you gonna listen to before you're just like, Okay, there's not a lot of extra things to say, You know what? I mean? It's somebody in the end, you have to like the person who's saying it and the perspective they have and stuff like that.

Susan 53:07
Well, the pro tips are amazing, too, that just, you know, I've my primary care physicians son got diagnosed. Recently, we think they think it's type two right now, but I was like, listen to these this is what can you, like, make sure he listens to them? So

Scott Benner 53:25
yeah, I have to be honest, like that was, um, you know, making the Pro Tip series was good for me. Like, it was a growth thing. I just knew a second. The spring here and I'm hours are not pleasant. For me. It was a it was a it was a human growth thing for me. Because I, I thought, okay, the podcast is doing well. And it has these ideas. And I do think that even though I've been having conversations and things come up inside of conversations, you know, I'm seeing people have enough success with these ideas, I should put them all in one place. And, and segment them a little better, you know, be an adult, you know, and so, I was getting ready to do it. And I could have done it. And then I just thought, no, I should add Jenny to this, like, Jenny will bring a different perspective. She'll keep me, like, focused, you know, she'll be able to talk about things that I can't speak about it. So it'll be more it'll be medical and personal, like together, you know, and, you know, it's funny, like, there are people who can listen to this podcast and think that Jenny, you know, like, is Jenny's involved in the in the episode She's involved at all I mean, to say is that like, if you think of the podcast as a candy store, I own the candy store. You know, but Jenny, we're

Susan 54:55
going for your CDE cuz I just saw I always have been You know, it would be such a great fit one would think, although I know you love podcasting, but

Scott Benner 55:04
you know, so a lot of people say it to me, just like there's something in one of your emails that you said that a lot of people said to me, but I'm gonna get to that before we end. I thought of it. I'm not a book learning person. I'd be terrible at it. I don't even know if I'd pass it to be perfectly honest.

Susan 55:22
But it's so interesting that what all that you've come to is completely then been seat of your pants life. You know, it's it's been that's, that's interesting. But that's self knowledge to

Scott Benner 55:32
it all comes from what I said earlier, which I have a very deep desire to be a good parent. And this is what happened to my daughter. So yeah, this is what it needed. Like, if she would have not gotten diabetes, but decided she wanted to ride a horse. I'd know a lot about horseback riding now. Right? You know, it really is just what happened. I just if I tell you, I'm going to do something, I'm going to do it. So when I said to my wife, I want to have kids. I didn't mean like, I'd be super interested in it for a while. So this is just what happened. And then you mentioned earlier, like people have the internet, but I didn't have the internet. And it's so funny. You brought Carrie Sparling up, because back when I started a blog, I believe that it was her. Another guy named Scott and a guy named George, those were the only three diabetes bugs that I was aware of at that time. And I wasn't really aware of them. I didn't become aware of them until later, when someone said to me, because I really had like, when I was doing it, I thought Oh, my God, this is genius. Why is no one else ever done this before. But the internet was very new. And then somebody said, oh, there are other people doing it. But it wasn't 1000 people, it wasn't what it turned into eventually, which was over 4000 blogs, it was like three other people. And then mine came on and some others came on. But I was so bad at Search Engine Optimization, meaning I didn't know that it existed when I was writing. But no, you couldn't google me. So my blog grew completely word of mouth. And that ended up being why it grew slower than the other ones did. So mine was never big. Nobody ever thought anything until suddenly, one day it was. And then I learned about SEO and how to, you know, come up in a Google search. And that that broadened it. But at the same time, it only lasted a couple of years. I think of them as seasons. Isn't that funny now, a couple of years, and then people stop reading. But people were just like, I'm not gonna read your 600 word blog posts. Like, I'm not doing that, you know. And then the podcast came from that. But everything that I learned about diabetes in there, I figured out like living in it, because I didn't have anybody else to ask. And I wasn't opening up that stupid book with the Panther on the front of it. So I just, and by the way, it might be a great book, I have no idea. There's a pink panther book they used to give you and you were diagnosed. And maybe it's a terrific book. But my brain doesn't work that way. I didn't ask questions at the doctor's office, I didn't read anything, the Internet didn't really exist. So I just kept intently watching what was happening, and tried to figure out how to make it happen better or worse, or sooner or later by manipulating the insulin, and then wrote about it and brought some ideas together. And

Susan 58:38
well, you've been part of my sea change, I would say, you and the getting a, you know, because animals went out of business, I had to get a new pump. And I really looked at what was on the market. And I looked at the Omnipod. But I really felt like it was big, it felt big.

Scott Benner 58:57
First one. Yeah. But,

Susan 59:00
um, and I chose the tandem and, and getting the G six Dexcom at the same time, which I had tried in earlier iteration, but and I just felt like at the time, it was so expensive for me to do and I was still pricking my fingers all the time. So I decided I would just wait until they came out with one where I didn't have to prick my fingers. And boy howdy they did it was and it's been well, actually, I'm one of those people that it will very often quit before it's 10 days, which I wish it didn't do that but I call Dexcom all the time, but they're they're a wonderful company with really good customer service. And you know, they always replace them

Scott Benner 59:46
on enough times and describe to me that like look, this is a thing that goes on to a human being like we make the thing then your body chemistry comes in. So if it was less days or fewer days for you, my wife would be so proud of me that I didn't say less days and I caught myself fewer days for you than it does for Arden. Who by the way, where's her Dexcom? I would say 99.5% of the time, right out to the last minute stays on. Yeah. And it works great. But

Susan 1:00:12
I know I've asked them. I mean, I went one day, they actually even got me on with a nurse that's on their staff. And I said to you, it Okay. Could it be that I'm hitting scar tissue? Because I've been diabetic for so long. And so many things have gone in my abdomen? Could it be, you know, all these like we, I said, Look, if you ever decide you're going to do research on the people, you know, the chemistry of the people who it doesn't work the full 10 days for like, oh, Sign me up? I would love to do that. But yeah, they didn't have a good answer. And so I just live with it. Because it is really good technology while it's working. And it's you know, I always just hope that it doesn't poop out at a point where I really need it. Like, there have been some really bad times where I'm like, this is like, I'm walking for, you know, for the next hour, and I don't have my next call

Scott Benner 1:01:06
just goes away. Yeah. And also the,

Susan 1:01:10
I have two other pieces that have made a big difference. One is I my insurance company said I could have a, a coach through something called Vita health. And that's been really wonderful. I really campaigned to make sure that coach was a CDE. And the person I have right now knows a lot about tandem and she's she's been trained specifically in tandem. So we are working to tighten up my settings. And you know, because I know that it can be better. And then the last piece and she's just been amazing. The last piece is that I finally decided to get an Apple Watch. And having my blood sugar's on my wrist has been instead of you know, having to pull out a palm or find my phone has been really great.

Scott Benner 1:02:04
I'm really hopeful that the Dexcom g7 will go directly to Apple Watch. If that happens. Don't

Susan 1:02:10
wait. Because yeah, that was what was holding me back in one day, I just said, you know, it's not even worth it. I'll just let me just get one and they had a really good deal. So I did it.

Scott Benner 1:02:21
That's excellent. So the last thing I wanted to talk to you about was in one of your emails, Susan emails me, not frequently, but reasonably frequently more than other people. Use you asked a question that a lot of adults with type one asked me? Do you remember the one it's it's about Arden? How are you going to give this to this knowledge? Yeah.

Susan 1:02:42
How are you going to hand it off? Because you're you're very hands on? And I think you've actually answered in in a couple of your interviews.

Scott Benner 1:02:51
Yeah, I but I wondered what the if you could help me more with what the question is? Was it a physical? How are you going to put thoughts into somebody else's person? Or how are you going to let go of something you're so involved in? Which part of it? Did you mean more?

Susan 1:03:06
I don't think it was. I guess it was more about somewhere in between all of that. Like, if I know, I've heard I've since heard you speak about the two of you making decisions together? Or you'd say how many carbs do you think this is? So you actually have been trainer all along. But I think when I wrote that I thought you were maybe doing all of it, or most of it. And she was probably younger at that point, at least when I you know of the interviews I had listened to at that point. So I guess, and also knowing that I had well, I had bad training, but I had had to handle mine from a young age. I also believe I kind of think it is important for young people like I don't like when schools say you have to do it this way you have you know, and I know you don't like that either. So I think it had to do with how are you? How are you? How were you going to transition between you know, you have a holding most of the knowledge and most of the most of the control but I'm not saying control like because you're controlling. But you know, being the parent, and her starting to do that herself. And it sounds like you're already doing that.

Scott Benner 1:04:35
I'm just interested because because you have the time and the experience. And so do most people who asked the question, and so I'm always I'm interested in what it is they're concerned about or what happened to you, that makes that be your concern when you hear our dynamic? Well, I

Susan 1:04:54
did feel as I thought you know, also thinking about that later Leaving home aspect, there will come a time in the not too distant future because she's What 16 or 17 right now? Yeah. Where she, you know, she'll go off to college, presumably, but maybe not necessarily my kids sure didn't. And, but when she does, she, you know, I mean, you can still follow her, of course, but, you know, you could do a lot still, but you know, and has she ever wanted to say, you know, Dad, I got this now. I don't know. Well,

Scott Benner 1:05:32
the other night, she went out to dinner with my son and their cousins. And they all just went by themselves. And as she left, I was like, Do you need anything? And she's like, I'm good. And I say, okay, and she went out had a, you know, bar food type meal. That was I, you know, pretty high in fat. She did a good job with it. She came home, she mentioned, she's like, just see how good my Bolus was. And I was like, I did, I was great. And I said, good. I said, you know, you know that we're going to be getting hit with the fat soon. And she's like, I know, but I don't know how much to Bolus for that. I was like, Okay, well, I would do this much. And then she did. And, and, you know, it went the way it went. But I think that, in my mind, like the idea of her getting older or not being here, whichever it ends up being, it's kind of the same problem, that this is what's gonna have to happen next, like, she's gonna have to have the experiences so she can see it happen. And then I have the tools to give her. So I don't think that I expect to just download my thoughts into her. Right, I expect that she's going to learn to have diabetes the same way everybody listening learns. And except, you know, she can text the guy from the podcast, given her pretty much indifference rates

Susan 1:06:59
start and kept her so healthy for so many years. What What's it gonna feel like for you? It presuming your share your that you're still sharing, and you see what she's doing when she leaves? Like, if you see her one day, you know, not doing so well? What's that going to be like for you,

Scott Benner 1:07:22
I hope that what it'll be like is that I look at it and go, This is what I've been telling people, like, I hope I have the courage of my convictions and that point, like, then I can say, this is an experience that people need to see. And then the hope is that she'll be one of the people who doesn't want it to happen. And not one of the people just because I have this is fine, I'll let this go.

Susan 1:07:42
Well, she also knows how good it feels to, you know, to feel good to feel kind of normal, because your blood sugars are in a good range. Right? So she's not gonna like the feeling, and she'll feel it at a much lower blood sugar than some of us. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:07:58
I mean, and then in the end, right, like, like you mentioned with your son's at the very end, if she doesn't do the right thing, I will sit her down and explain it to her until she agrees. That's my job, right? I'm not, I'm not here to be friendly. I got to make sure everybody's okay.

Susan 1:08:17
I know, that is the hardest part about parenting, right? That like, you're not the friend, you're the parent that there are times when it's rough.

Scott Benner 1:08:25
I am not going to do well, living the end of my life, see my children in any kind of like, massive failure, like, like personal like, I'm gonna think like that will make me feel like I did something wrong. And so they can, their lives can fall apart just as long as it happens after I'm dead. That's all I just

Susan 1:08:45
think you know that they Well, hopefully, it'll be small failures and the ones that they because you really do learn from the failures, of course, more than the successes. Oh, no, no, yeah, true. Isn't that it's true.

Scott Benner 1:08:56
It's 100% True. And I'm not saying they don't have things go wrong. I'm not I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that, you know, if Arden's held up in a, in an apartment somewhere, and or a one sees 15 And she's like, I don't care. I'm going down and hard and fast. Like, I don't want to know about that.

Susan 1:09:13
No, of course. No one wants to see that. Right. Um, have you ever heard of the book The blessings of a skinny?

Scott Benner 1:09:21
No, but I believe in it. It's, uh, yeah, it's

Susan 1:09:24
really, uh, I guess I want to say, predated the whole free range parenting thing, but it really is about like life's consequences. Let it you know, parents need to, you know, need to not be helicopter parents and let life's consequences teach

Scott Benner 1:09:41
you. You can't take away the learning experiences that that you're being given every day, naturally. Because then when something goes wrong, nobody's prepared for it at all. And that and that can happen. Yeah, and that can go that can happen in ways that you can't help you know, I mean, somebody gets have, I mean if something went wrong with your life in the middle of the pandemic, for example, that'd be a difficult thing. Like even with some good calluses on your on your soul, like that still might be something harder to get through. But you gotta have a little callus. You know what I mean? You got to be a little tough, and you can't be tough when your mom's picking you up off. She's running out of the stands and picking you up off a basketball court when you're eight years old, like you got to be like, just get up. You know, I remember saying to my wife, Oh, interesting

Susan 1:10:28
about having my children move across the country, because I will not be there to pick them up. You know, short of a phone call, but I won't be there. And as they drove up, drove off in this Penske Truck as an 18 year old and a 22 year old, and I'm thinking Penske will rent to it. And he's the better draw, he's the driver with more experience than my 22 year old. And, and he, you know, and I thought to myself, here's where I just have to trust me, I just have to trust it.

Scott Benner 1:11:08
But then I am gonna bang out an email dealer, dear hurts, your business practices are horrible. And let me tell you why I just watched my son driveway with one of your products. And that kid shouldn't be given a truck.

Susan 1:11:21
Well, it's funny, and they got all the way across the country. And he really, really was enjoying the driving experience. And then we got a call yesterday, they reached LA. So that's great. And they're near the place they'll be renting. He said that we had an accident i that the map had steered me through a construction site and I needed to get out of it. And I backed up and I kind of deemed another car. They got so far, so

Scott Benner 1:11:51
close, so close. Hey, that, listen to that one, one step at a time until the young kids listening. Those math programs are ruining you. You don't even know where you're at. Okay, maybe look up, drive in a direction. See what happens if it goes wrong driving a different direction, you'll be fine. My son never knows where he's at. He's like, I don't follow the thing

Susan 1:12:12
between being like taking a drive. Like if you're easy. Do you like going out for a drive with your family or your wife just just to go for a pretty drive? Have you ever done that?

Scott Benner 1:12:23
Yeah, no, of course. Okay,

Susan 1:12:25
so you, if you're in a nice area, and it's pretty, then you're going for a drive if suddenly, the area starts looking sketchy, then your loss that's

Scott Benner 1:12:35
when you're scared, you're lost. When you're not scared, you're going for a lesson one of the things I hope to do towards the end here, I know I'm saying the end I'm about to be 50. I'm hoping to make it longer. But I'd like to get like an electric car. And Evie. And I would like to drive around and go on some road trips and see some things that I want to see and and to wait

Susan 1:12:53
for Biden to install lots of chargers. Because the problem with the Evie is that and they're wonderful. And I want one too, I've decided no more gas vehicles at all in our household. But the problem is that their range is only what the range is. So you know, I have a friend who drives one. And she said and the reason we decided to get it is that when we do go on long drives, we'll just rent the car.

Scott Benner 1:13:23
I'm counting on the Tesla network. That's what I have my fingers crossed for. That's a pretty like, like country wide network. I think you can make it almost anywhere.

Susan 1:13:32
Actually, I do know you can make it across the country on a Tesla. We have friends who did do that they moved from Jacksonville to LA and they made it across in their Tesla. I just mapped it all out. Right?

Scott Benner 1:13:45
See, and I just want to get in the car and see if we can get somewhere without killing are strangling each other. That's my goal.

Susan 1:13:53
I can't afford a Tesla. But good luck, Scott. Oh, great.

Scott Benner 1:13:56
I didn't say I don't know that. I can't either. I'm just saying like, that's what I'm what I'm leaning on here is the idea that maybe that's the way to do it. Or that maybe that they did it. Other companies will do it as well. You know what I mean? Like, like, maybe, like, I see that one of the selling points of Tesla's seems to be that they have that network. So maybe maybe other like car manufacturers or I don't know, companies will say yeah, we should build a network like that as well. Like, that's my hope is that that that that idea? Will will bear out and more people will try it and create networks like that. I would like to try an electric car. It just from a technology standpoint before I die, like it seems like the future you know,

Susan 1:14:36
oh, it's amazing technology. I'm my friend drives a Chevy Bolt. And it you know, it's she's two years in she's never had a repair and my I guess my mechanic was saying, Well, you know, there's nothing there's no belts. There's like all the things we have to repair on traditional engines. I It's just not even the it's a

Scott Benner 1:15:01
giant slot car. It's two turning wheels on an axle and these little, these electric motors, and other than that nothing and some companies are starting to talk about, and I have to go, I'm sorry, I have to jump on to something else. But some companies are starting to talk to and I talked about an idea of, I think what they call like, steer by wire, meaning that at some point in the future, your steering wheel won't even have to be connected to the front axle. It'll be like a joystick, like, you turn it, and then the computer will turn the wheels commiserate to how you're turning the wheel.

Susan 1:15:34
So interesting. I had a I have a friend who we went to the movies, this was pre pandemic, with, I don't know, one or two of my kids. And at the we walked out the movie theater, and he said and watch this a hugh is already enjoying, like showing us his new Tesla. And he said, watch this. And he had the Tesla come pick us up no driver. And that was terrifying. I mean, I just feel like if I'm standing on a street and I see a car walk go by with no driver that does that's like,

Scott Benner 1:16:05
that's the future. I just want to see the future was I was I had a computer when I was 13, which is a long time ago was one of the first computers you could buy in your home. And I want to drive an electric car before I go. And by the way, before I get so old that it feels so fast. And I'm like, I can't do this. I'm old. Like I just you know, I want to get in one time and try it before that.

Susan 1:16:23
So you'll be able to I mean, they're gonna they're gonna come way down in price and Oh, absolutely. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:16:29
Fingers crossed. All right. This was delightful. I'm sorry, I have to rush away. But I really appreciate you doing this.

Susan 1:16:35
It was really delightful. And listen to I'm so glad. Sometimes you take care. Have a great

Scott Benner 1:16:41
day. You must be thinking right now. It's Scott ever going to run out of amazing guests to have on the Juicebox Podcast? No, I'm not. I'm not going to. This was another one. Susan Ching, paying us back with good talking. I want to thank the Contour Next One blood glucose meter. For being a sponsor on today's episode, go to contour next one.com forward slash juice box. Get yourself a good meter, not just any meter. And I'd also like to thank the pod makers of the Omni pod dash and the Omni pod promise go to Omni pod.com forward slash juice box. Find out if you're eligible for a free 30 day supply of the Omni pod dash tubeless insulin pump

thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.


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