#591 Power Struggle

Cynthia’s daughter is a teen type 1..

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:02
Hey Cynthia, how are you?

Cynthia 0:05
Hello. Good morning. Can you hear me?

Scott Benner 0:07
I can, but you're very squeaky. Why is that?

Cynthia 0:09
Okay? Hold on a minute. I'm actually just pulling into my work parking lot. Okay, because I'm gonna have to go right into work when I finish. So I'm gonna have better. Better service in just a second. That's

Scott Benner 0:23
fine. I'm recording this part, by the way, and it may stay in just so you're aware.

Cynthia 0:29
Okay, I am alright with them. But I'm trying to get my sound better. Am I Am I okay?

Scott Benner 0:35
You're not at the moment.

Unknown Speaker 0:37
Okay. Okay.

Scott Benner 0:39
Are you wearing a headset? I am. Is it Bluetooth? It is. Yeah. It's like it's not going through your car. Right? It's just from the phone to you.

Cynthia 0:52
But I'm wondering if it might be going to my car. I'm literally pulling in my parking lot right now.

Scott Benner 0:57
Take your time. Take your time. I'm having

Unknown Speaker 0:59
fun. We're gonna, we're gonna be okay.

Scott Benner 1:02
I have a ton of I have a ton of energy I haven't recorded in a week. So.

Cynthia 1:07
Oh, excellent. You've had a little bit of a break. Yes,

Scott Benner 1:11
that will either be great for you or horrible for you. We'll find out this.

Cynthia 1:15
Okay, that's right. So I'm parked. So now let me figure out my sound because I do think I'm going through my car. So let me get it on my husband.

Scott Benner 1:23
I appreciate the effort. I really do.

Cynthia 1:27
I know you're pretty picky about your sound.

Scott Benner 1:29
i It sounds like you're arriving an hour early for work so that you can sit in your car and do this and I appreciate that.

Cynthia 1:38
Okay, I am that is exactly thing so that I can do everything. Is that any better.

Scott Benner 1:44
Not only is it amazing, but the transition was kind of magical. And this is episode 591 of the Juicebox Podcast.

On the podcast today, I'll be talking to Cynthia she is the mother of a teenager living with type one diabetes. And while we're speaking to each other, if you would remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice medical or otherwise, I would really appreciate it further. Don't forget that. You should always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan or becoming bold with insulin. Have type one diabetes, or care for someone who does? Do you also live in the United States? Well, then I've got a little something for you to do. Head over to t one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox and take the survey, help type one diabetes research, help the podcast help other people living with type one, t one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox takes less than 10 minutes. It's completely HIPAA compliant and absolutely anonymous. Just one more music swell then we'll get to the program

this show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries. G voc hypo pen. Find out more at G voc glucagon.com. Forward slash juicebox. today's podcast is also sponsored by the Dexcom G six continuous glucose monitor dexcom.com forward slash juice boxes where you'll learn more and get started. There are links in the show notes and links at Juicebox Podcast comm to these and all of the sponsors.

Cynthia 3:44
So I'm Cynthia, I am the mother of a daughter who was diagnosed with type one at about 15 and a half years old. It's now been three years.

Scott Benner 3:55
Wow. So she out of the house.

Cynthia 3:58
She's not she's actually a really old senior. So she just graduated. Gotcha. Just in the last week.

Scott Benner 4:05
Oh, congratulations. Yeah, congratulations as you shift to spending an enormous amount of money to send her to college someday.

Cynthia 4:13
Exactly. That's right where we're at. So Superfish actually, I think she's actually going to stick around for another year and do the local school. So that'll be good.

Scott Benner 4:23
Excellent. I think that's amazing. I offered my son a large sum of money to go to a local college.

Cynthia 4:28
Right? Yeah, my other children didn't. She's my third. She's my youngest. And so yes, at least in this way. She's saving me a little bit.

Scott Benner 4:38
I don't imagine that people who don't have children, like I know it's, you think like, oh, college is expensive. But that's not it. It's you struggle to get through life, month to month a month. And then suddenly someone lays a bill on top of you. That is, you know, commensurate to your mortgage all you know what I mean? And it's every month there's no extra money coming in and somehow you Make it work where you don't like I don't know how you know where you're taking a ton of loans, right? It's it's a massive stress at the end of your life when your knees start hurting and you're like, Oh, I'm not even gonna make it. There. Yeah, yeah. And then they say, like, what are you gonna go to college for? I don't know, you're like, you don't know. You understand why they say that, but you'd like a little more good feeling when you're you're chucking your money out the window. So exactly. Anyway, are we gonna say her name? And maybe not. We don't have to your daughter? Yes. Yeah. My daughter. Okay. So she's your youngest of three. Are there any other autoimmune issues within the, the, the family,

Cynthia 5:45
not in our immediate family and nobody with type one, but it's sort of as you start looking, we're realizing that there are a lot of autoimmune and extended family. We've got some Crohn's we've got, like, lots of different things. Um, but no type one.

Scott Benner 6:04
You know, when Uncle Billy poops a lot, you don't think that 20 years later, and kids gonna get

Cynthia 6:08
it? Exactly. Right. We're just really

Scott Benner 6:11
go doing Thanksgiving all the time. I don't know. It's just always gone. And then you know, you're 20 years old, bringing your dad home? And who knows, you know, but it really is. I think everybody listening should do that deep dive on their family. I met a man this week while I was away. And he hadn't had this happen. Oh, we had to tell him that my son had a thyroid issue that kind of popped up out of nowhere, and that we gotten it worked out. And it made the man say, Oh, my mom's thyroid. You know, has a has a he's like, I don't know what it's called. She's like, but she takes medicine for her thyroid. And I said, Oh, are there any other autoimmune things in your family? And he goes, and he starts listing a couple things. And he says, I want my wife has celiac. And I thought, Do I tell this guy if he ever has a baby one day, and it pees a lot that he should check for type one? You don't mean? Like I had that? Right? You know? So, tell me a little bit about her diagnosis.

Cynthia 7:15
Um, well, she was sick for a long, long time. So she was a freshman in high school. And she was just going through a lot of feeling sick, and feeling super tired. So we actually had thought she was depressed. Okay. And so we were getting her therapy, she was really struggling in school, she couldn't stay awake, seeking lots of kind of different, not even ever once crossing our mind that maybe her blood sugar was high. And so she'd been to the doctor so many times. And then finally, one weekend did have all those telltale signs. And, you know, I had been doing a lot of googling for many months trying to figure out what was wrong with her. And it was very clear to me this one night, I think it was a Thursday night that I just was like, Okay, we're going to talk to you tomorrow, I'm going to tell him to check her blood sugar. Pretty sure she's got diabetes. So it was sort of a strange relief when she was diagnosed, because it was good to have an answer. And to think, Okay, now we've figured out all of, you know, our problems, and we're now it's going to be fine. And I so we wish that that was the case. But how long

Scott Benner 8:35
did that process take? I would say about six months. And when you suggested therapy to your daughter? Did she say yeah, it's possible I'm depressed? Or did she say I'm not depressed and you just persevered?

Cynthia 8:48
And she did say she didn't think she was depressed. But we honestly her symptoms were very depression. Yeah, like, she couldn't get out of bed. She didn't want to she had no desire to do anything. She was just exhausted all the time. And what's funny is she's an athlete. And she, at that time was competing at a very high level. And she could somehow drag herself to practice and get going. And once she got going, she'd be fine. And so now I realized what was happening is her blood sugar was dropping as she was exercising.

Scott Benner 9:26
Interesting, isn't it?

Cynthia 9:29
And then she would feel good and come home and be okay for a little while. Yeah, and then it would just this cycle would repeat itself.

Scott Benner 9:37
I just had I was struck with the thought just now that my life is odd that people say things about their health and I'm like, oh my god, isn't that interesting? Where I should you know, I don't know why my I'm not horrified by it. I'm just I think that's that's incredible like that. You could use hindsight like that and look back and from where you came and her age, right? Like, are you depressed? Well, I don't know. I am tired. More often than usual, I've heard people say it's hard to get up when you're depressed. She right she doesn't know the difference. And right. And would she even know if she? You don't? I mean, if she was depressed, would she know she was depressed? And Correct? Yes. And even, that's really fascinating. And the therapist never said, Well, you know, while we're doing this, maybe go get a CBC or something like that, just to see if she's ill.

Cynthia 10:23
You know, we actually had only gone to one therapy session, I think, at that time, and she just didn't feel like we hadn't found it. She's gone to more therapy since then, believe me, but, um, but at the time, she hadn't found a good fit. So she'd gone to somebody and it didn't really go well. So we kind of were, you know, doing other things. And

Scott Benner 10:43
yeah, well, you went to a mechanic and asked him how to bake a cake. So

Cynthia 10:47
right, right. Yeah, exactly. So and I mean, we in that time, also, we brought her to the doctor, probably three different times, they diagnosed her with sinus infection and ear infection. And we're like, none of that makes sense.

Scott Benner 11:00
I want to give you a lot of props for persevering behind the scenes, because I know what that feels like. And I'd like you to tell me a little bit about how it was for you that feeling that there was something wrong, you aren't coming up with an answer. And I'm imagining every free moment of your life you were digging everywhere you could on the internet trying to figure it out. Absolutely. Scary. Or

Cynthia 11:24
yeah, I mean, to be honest with you, I I was thinking the worst in some ways. You she was a different person from who she had been. And also had become mean her moods where she was having horrible mood swings. So you know, you think typical teenager, but she was my third teenager. It wasn't typical. It was, it was unusual.

Scott Benner 11:49
How far into those? I'm sorry, go off.

Cynthia 11:53
No, go ahead.

Scott Benner 11:54
I was gonna ask how far into those six months till you started thinking physical and not mental.

Cynthia 12:02
I mean, I think we were actually looking for physical more towards the beginning and then thinking okay, well, maybe if there's nothing physical to explain it, it is something more like a depression or something like that. And then swinging kind of just swinging back and forth, just looking anywhere we can try and figure out and in the end, I mean, when she finally was diagnosed, her blood sugar was like 400 out that that's I mean, that's extremely high but and her a one C was in the low twelves.

Scott Benner 12:32
Okay, had been going on. She wasn't

Cynthia 12:35
she wasn't it been going on a long time, but it wasn't and she was never in decay. Like our doctors told us we probably actually found it pretty early.

Scott Benner 12:46
And the running around kept you kind of in the game, so to speak.

Cynthia 12:50
I think the fact that she was so active physically was really what prolonged it.

Scott Benner 12:56
Wow. Wow, some good luck. Yeah, right. I'm just gonna go right once in a while, I guess. You guess I know. It's, it's tough. When you're looking for those silver linings and so many clouds. You find one you're like, this isn't a huge one, but I'm gonna take it as a win. Right? Well, okay, so she gets back. You know, you figure it out. Sounds like you got ahead of it a little bit. And they treat. How, like, are you in? Doesn't sound like you might have been in the hospital for a long?

Cynthia 13:25
No, we were we did do three days in the hospital. And that was a big bummer. But like I said, it was sort of a relief that we knew what was wrong. And we're thinking, Okay, we got her on insulin, everything's gonna be okay now. And let's see, they we did leave with pens. And we had her on a Dexcom. Within weeks, maybe three weeks. G six had just come out. So we were one of the first people to get ge six.

Scott Benner 13:56
Was that through? You're looking into it or through the doctors? Absolutely.

Cynthia 14:00
100% It was from us.

Scott Benner 14:04
And that seemed more important than a pump to you initially. Yes. Can you remember back to why?

Cynthia 14:14
Um, I, her insulin needs were very low at the beginning. In fact, she had she probably went through that whole summer. She was diagnosed in May. She probably went through that whole summer with just taking long acting.

Scott Benner 14:29
Okay. I see. Yeah. So there was still a honeymoon period that went for a while

Cynthia 14:33
for sure. Exactly. And again, because and that summer, she was very, very active. She was in sports camps all day. So yeah, I just think so she was really only taking a couple of units of I think she was taking love Amira at the time.

Scott Benner 14:49
But to dig into that question a little more, not knowing very much about diabetes at all. Seeing what you saw in the beginning when you realize there was a thing she could wear That would pump her insulin in and stop her from taking injections. And a thing that she could wear that would show you her blood sugar in real time. Do you remember what made you think? Let's get the CGM right now.

Cynthia 15:11
Um, I mean yeah, just that knowledge and I guess fear the fear of going low she did within you they sent her home on let's see love a mirror and homologue and of course I went back to work and then she's home like the next, like one or two days after she had come home and she ate something and she did all the math right you know, she's just 15 and a half and did her injection and ate and then tested this before she got the Dexcom and she was in the 40s She sent me a picture of this, you know of her CGM. It wasn't a CGM. What are they called? The pure meter? Yeah. And she's sitting there trying to unwrap Starburst and eat her three Starburst, which is what they had recommended to her and it was a really scary time. And so I think having that although we had ordered the Dexcom even before we left the hospital, but that she had a few scary loads in the beginning that I think she maybe didn't even need the human log yet.

Scott Benner 16:18
Yeah, I in that moment when she's unwrapping isn't it funny by the way kids at this age like she sent you a picture? Like she could have raised you my blood sugar's 40 Like no, you know, I see I hear posts with images get more

Cynthia 16:32
right? Yes, she sent me a picture of the meter Yes. Did you and I'm at work and see this pop up on my phone and have an absolute panic attack. Home his work? I was about probably 20 minutes you didn't

Scott Benner 16:47
make you feel like running out the door or what did you

Cynthia 16:50
I think by the time I saw it, she I think I saw it as well as some other texts that she was okay by then. So

Scott Benner 16:58
good, good. Good. I I've had I one time, couldn't get a hold of Arden at school. And I made it all the way through the front door of the school. Okay, and then she texted me back and she's like, I took care of it and I looked the lady in the face like through the little window you know the post 911 getting into a public schools different than right you know, so I'm looking through the little window and I'm like, Ah, nevermind and I turned around just left okay. But I had made it all the way from a shower. I was in the shower and shower dried ran out the door probably half dressed driving through town. And then arms like I'm good. Okay, and then I just took her on the left but it's yeah, I've

Cynthia 17:42
definitely done that before as well. Yeah,

Scott Benner 17:45
it's frightening sometimes. Well frightening. So you said a second ago that she's done way more therapy since then. So was it not like a brochure transition into type one diabetes?

Cynthia 18:00
Yeah, not really. She's definitely struggled and you know, knowing her I don't know if it was just 100% the diabetes but it that's definitely been a part of of her mental health struggle.

Scott Benner 18:18
Yeah. Does the struggle come? Like what what form does that come in? Is it pushing back against type one is that like, is it like, I don't want this and you can't you can't bring yourself to just kind of say alright, I have diabetes. Is it that she feels different? You know what? What the underpin? I think

Cynthia 18:37
it's all of that that you just said yeah, she doesn't want to feel different. She I mean yeah, she you know she wears her diabetes tech showing and all her friends she doesn't hide it. But she doesn't want to take care of it. And then yeah, just this feeling of wanting to be free and grow up and I think she feels a definite well I know she feels very smothered by me trying to take care of it

Scott Benner 19:07
doesn't want to take care of it and does anyway or doesn't and it's a problem. Je voc hypo pen has no visible needle, and it's the first premixed auto injector of glucagon for very low blood sugar in adults and kids with diabetes ages two and above. Not only is G voc hypo pen simple to administer, but it's simple to learn more about. All you have to do is go to G voc glucagon.com Ford slash juicebox. G voc shouldn't be used in patients with insulinoma or pheochromocytoma. Visit G voc glucagon.com/risk.

Now it's time to talk about the Dexcom G six continuous glucose monitor. If you told me I could only tell you one thing about it, I guess I would say that the Dexcom tells you the speed and direction of your blood sugar. That if I can only tell you one thing about it, that's what I would tell you. I would think that would be enough for you to be interested in more that it also tells you what your blood sugar is. No, that seems like a bonus to me. But direction speed. Yeah, that's the big deal right there. For instance, my daughter's blood sugar's 104. Right now, we are about two hours past a meal at a bar, like a restaurant bar. You know, you're like, Oh, this guy's taking this underage daughter robot. I'm not it's not a bar. It's a restaurant that has a you know what I mean? She got bar food. She had nachos with like cheese steak piled on top of it and french fries. And Arden's blood sugar is 104. At the moment, it is also trending down. I can see that on my cell phone. She's not even with me right now. So I look at the graph over the last couple of hours. And I see where we came in, where we Pre-Bolus for Ardens meal. I can see later where the Bolus got a little overwhelmed, we had it up a little bit. That information from the Dexcom allowed me to comfortably make a new Bolus, which stopped a spike. And now she's leveled off and coming back down gently. I honestly don't know how I could have done that. Without the Dexcom GS six, I think you should check it out@dexcom.com forward slash juicebox. You can find out more or get started today. But I'm just going to tell you, if you have type one. Now forget type one, if you're using insulin, you should have a Dexcom Dexcom share and follow are available for iPhone and Android. And you can have up to 10 followers. That could be your mother, your brother, your sister, your school nurse your parents, a lot of different people could be in your corner if you want them to. And if you don't want that, you don't have to do that. Dexcom is nothing if it is not flexible. Okay, there's links in the show notes, links at Juicebox Podcast comm I want to get back to Cynthia

Cynthia 22:27
doesn't want to take care of and kind of does anyway, which may just be because she so doesn't want to deal with me. It's easier to just take care of it. And then have your mom nagging you constantly to take care of

Scott Benner 22:44
Cynthia going with the old battleaxe version of

Cynthia 22:49
right. I mean, we've tried it all. I've tried the bribery I've tried. You know, I'll pay you to do the whatever

Scott Benner 22:58
disguise about her health like understanding what comes if you don't manage?

Cynthia 23:03
Right, I mean, she's been told that I think you can't really tell them that too many times, because then it just kind of becomes

Scott Benner 23:11
self fulfilling.

Cynthia 23:12
Yeah. So I mean, I will say so I think the the original reason I had emailed you just saying that I thought this was sort of an interesting topic is. So at the doctor, she is always applauded and looked up to as this amazing type one. I think she's a patient that comes in and they're happy to see her and they they applaud her a one sees and they tell her she's doing amazing. And that's just been kind of my biggest frustration is because I'm sure she is doing better than a lot of their patients. But how but it's frustrating to me that there's so many little tiny things she could be doing better. And, you know, when they're 16. And they say, Well, the doctor says I'm doing great mom, they don't want to listen to me. I gotcha. All right. That's how you could do better.

Scott Benner 24:13
Let's find out if you're crazy. Or if she's young, this will be fun. I mean, crazy, in the most lovely sense of the word. So you know, of course, of course. So tell me hurry one see just so we have context.

Cynthia 24:31
So it was in the twelves when she was diagnosed and then it went to nine, you know, like a month later, but ever since then it has always been in the sevens.

Scott Benner 24:39
Okay. All right. So is this a scenario where you're seeing other people doing numbers lower than that? And you think we can get to this, but she won't listen?

Cynthia 24:55
Yes. Ah, she's just so close.

Unknown Speaker 25:00
What What holds your backing? Um,

Cynthia 25:04
well, it's mostly just so she does a roller coaster, major, major roller coaster. She has very high highs and then she

Scott Benner 25:12
has low lows. She's not Pre-Bolus singer meals,

Cynthia 25:15
she does not prefer refuses to Pre-Bolus. So that was one thing that I had a very hard conversation in the endos office one time because I thought, Okay, I'm gonna all bring it up. And then of course, the endo will back me up on it. No, not all of it. Then she didn't. And I so I said, because I think her agency had gone up just a couple ticks, I think it had gone up to like 7.9, almost to eight. And so I had suggested, and I usually let the appointment be driven by my daughter and the Endo. And I just sort of been there because that's how it needs to be. I mean, she was older when she was diagnosed, she really has to take control of this herself, but and so I had just said, what if she takes her insulin earlier? Would that be helpful, so she doesn't go so high? And the endo very quickly said, Oh, I'm happy as long as she just takes it before the first bite of food goes in her mouth.

Scott Benner 26:14
And did you say you mother?

Cynthia 26:19
There's your first belief of the day?

Scott Benner 26:21
Yeah, this to you like you son of a bitch. Just shut up.

Cynthia 26:26
I wanted to so I very quickly said and what if the thing she's eating is a doughnut or a fast acting carb. And she said as long as she takes it before her first bite. So that was really frustrating. Because, you know, I had been trying to get across the concept of Pre-Bolus sing to her. And then the doctor just sort of almost made me look like the idiot.

Scott Benner 26:57
Doctor. younger or older than 40.

Cynthia 27:02
Younger. Really one of the reasons we chose her. Yeah.

Scott Benner 27:06
Does the doctor have type one? I'm gonna go right. I see. Did you meet resistance in the car afterwards? Or your daughter was like, Haha, I told you Did you get any that?

Cynthia 27:22
Maybe not right away there? Yes. Definitely a few times since the she always says the doctor says that I don't have to take insulin until I eat. And then I often have to say yes, but she should be you should take it when you eat and not an hour after you eat when you're high.

Scott Benner 27:40
So I have to tell you, let me just I'm not speaking to your doctor directly. But let's just anyone that's listening. If you are doing this shame on you. Seriously, like really like to tell a 16 year old kid that her eight a one see that, you know, is is almost eight coming from seven and you're doing great. I mean, doing great. What does that mean? Like those kids have no context for that. You've just given her a pass for everything. Everything you just you've told her Gee, it's your point earlier, everything's fine. Don't worry about anything. You can ignore your mom, you can ignore everything you're doing great. Right? That's, it's dangerous. And it's, uh, it's malpractice, in my opinion, and you should be ashamed. And if you don't understand how insulin works, maybe find out or get a different job. You know, right. Don't Don't tell a kid that they can. They can eat a doughnut as their bolusing. And everything's gonna be great. You're gonna be fine. Yeah, you can tell them they can eat a doughnut while they're Bolus thing and their budget is just gonna get incredibly high, and then likely crashed down low later. But and you know, it's not going to kill you today. That'd be that'd be honest. Right, but not great. That's a I'm sorry. So how do you? Well, I'm about to ask you a question. I guess you don't have an answer to both. Do you have a plan for getting through this? Getting through to her, I guess.

Cynthia 29:06
Yeah. I mean, I guess we just keep trying. And we do just the last week she did put a pump on. So she's had the Omni pod and she's just collected dust for a long time, but she did decide to give it a try. And it seems like that's going a little bit better.

Scott Benner 29:28
Huh? Alright, so walk us through it. How did you approach her about it? What happened next, etc.

Cynthia 29:35
Um, she just had had a series of really low lows and because she would go high and then overcorrect to do her range Bolus. And then go way way low and so she had finally agreed that maybe that would be a better way to try and avoid all these lows. So um, It's been a little bit better, I still don't know that she's Pre-Bolus thing, but for whatever reason her body does react faster to insulin coming from the pump than it does when she was MDI, okay.

Scott Benner 30:12
That's good, but not good enough, right, like in your mind, right. Yeah. Right. And you know what the the shame of it is, is that in her mind at some point in the future, she'll agree with you. But how long will it take her to get to that point?

Cynthia 30:26
That's what I worry about? Because I agree. I do think that she will. I think she will get there. But I do worry about how many years it's going to take her to get there. And then I worry about our relationship.

Scott Benner 30:39
Yeah. Well say more about that. What are your concerns?

Cynthia 30:45
Well, just that. I mean, we get along great. So our main, our main issues that we ever have, are always over diabetes. And so you know, that she thinks I'm trying to control her. And you know, I mean, it's just difficult. And then when she me, she's been MDI all these years. And so for many, many years, the first or not many, many, the first two years, probably about till she turned 18. We just every night 10pm, we wouldn't give her her long acting. And then when she turned 18, she's like, I'm gonna do this myself. And we're like, Okay, that's great. You know, she needs to do it at some point. But then turns out as many nights that she was doing it, she also wasn't doing it. So she just would forget are.

Scott Benner 31:38
Cynthia, are you saying that 18 year olds aren't incredibly responsible? I am definitely saying that. Yeah, I didn't know you were gonna come out with such a strong stance today. That's amazing. I know, a lot of you believe it's gonna cause an uproar. Yeah. Well, I like the idea of, I'm going to take care of it. But if I had to watch from a from a from a third party perspective, what I would think was, she used her birthday. As an adult, I made air quotes to tell you to you have to leave her alone now.

Cynthia 32:10
Right. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's exactly what she was trying to do. But my thing is, is, this is not some this is a non negotiable to me is, you know, this is not something that I'm going to give you space on. Is your health

Scott Benner 32:24
Do you struggle with thinking that if you push too hard, she'll just move out?

Cynthia 32:32
At this point, because she really doesn't have the means to move out. So

Scott Benner 32:38
don't let her meet like somebody that has an apartment, right?

Cynthia 32:41
Yeah. Right. No, I guess I do. Yeah, that is a little bit of a concern. Yeah.

Scott Benner 32:47
I had one of those thoughts with my son once like he, he he did something and I needed to do something back and I thought, how far can I push this before? He might just go, you know, well, Forget it then. And that was crazy. Because I thought, Well, I do have to still pay for college. There's no way he's gonna want to do that. So I have a little more time. I don't know if that sounds sinister to people who don't have children. But you know, there's a, that's a real thing that happened to you. I turned 18 Almond adult, which is such an arbitrary bowl thing. It's not real. It's like, it's like you turned 21. And now suddenly, you can you can binge drink, and it'll be okay. Like, but you know what I mean? So, things like that don't happen overnight. I just I feel for you. And I wonder away from diabetes. Do you have any issues like this with with communication or power cycles?

Cynthia 33:41
Um, I don't think anything more than a typical. Yeah. You know, typical teenage power kid turning 18 Of course, you know, they always think that they then should be allowed to do everything and anything but, um, but yeah, definitely, our main struggles are surrounding diabetes, which is very frustrating. Because to me, you know, this is just, again, it's a non negotiable, it's you, you have to take care of your health. Like, I will do everything that I can to make sure that you don't have any long term problems, because I didn't, because I just let you not take your insulin at night.

Scott Benner 34:25
Yeah, no, I appreciate that. I agree with you. I wonder too. Have you gone to wherever and said, Look, I don't push you around on anything else, like you don't see me trying to exert like this is important in a way that maybe you can't appreciate at the moment. And you know, just look on other things. You have freedom here and here and here. I don't like you know, we're not telling you what to do all over your life. If if this feels like that to you. Instead of thinking I'm trying to be in charge of it. Why don't you like help look at you know, can you look at it from my perspective. Did you know but I don't know how well those conversations go. You know, I've, I've lately been talking a lot to Erica and you guys here on the podcast. By the time this comes out, you'll have heard like, another therapist who has type one who I've been talking about more of this kind of emotional stuff with. And it's all amazing when you hear it, like the ideas and the concepts of communication and everything, but I don't know how well it ever really works in practice, like in real life, you don't even mean like it right. Sounds good on don't don't implementing

Cynthia 35:35
Yeah, implementing those things. And you know, she has gone to some therapies and I given some tools and different things and implementing them or is way harder than it seems like it would be reading about them listening to them. It all just sounds so great. Like, that'll work so fabulous.

Scott Benner 35:55
Don't it seems like as being a decent person is not the most human trait. Decent the right word, but like communicating with people? Well, it's obvious, right? Like, I think it's obvious to most people, and then doing it in the moment is, it's not the same thing. There's something else at play that keeps you from saying things the way you even mean them sometimes or

Cynthia 36:19
right. And I feel like with this, there's so much emotion involved as well.

Scott Benner 36:25
Right? Right. And, and everything. I was saying this to my daughter's friends come over, and they get the weirdest conversations in my kitchen. But we were talking about like, all the big, you know, people in their 1617, they talk about the big ideas in the world as if they've just, you know, they're the first people, it's noticed them. And it's a fun time to talk to people. And they were talking about race and politics and these big ideas. And I stopped them and I said, Listen, everything's about power. Everything is about power. Somebody either is in power and trying to hold on to it. Or someone is out of power, and wants to be in power. And that is true in personal relationships as well. Like somebody is empowered in a relationship and everything is a power struggle. So and for children. It's, it's I mean, it's it's normal and obvious, right? Like, you try to assert yourself a little bit. You're trying to break away from your parents, you start seeing, I don't know about you, Cynthia, but I'm slowing down a step. You know, my kids say it, they're like, oh, this old man. Yeah, he's on his way out, like I got better ideas. And, you know, they start thinking, Well, let me get my ideas into the game a little bit. But he's holding the purse strings or you know, whatever else it ends up being. So you try to give them a ton of freedom. And in a normal growth situation, and people can raise their kids any way they want. But I'm a fan, like, let them exert themselves, let them try to insert their ideas. Sometimes it's really painful. As a parent, like, oh, gosh, like that might be right. You don't I mean, like, wow, he might be smarter than me on this one. And to let that go is, is hard sometimes. But then this happens. And it's health. And that you don't have you don't feel like you have the time to let them learn how to be a human being and what's it really going to take? Let's be honest. 26 Is that about when you start to pull it together? You think your mid 20s?

Cynthia 38:22
Wavy? Yeah, my oldest is around that. Yeah. And she's well, she's a different whole different breed. She's very responsible, but we often joke even with her that it should have been her that got diabetes.

Scott Benner 38:35
She enjoys that job very much. Yeah.

Cynthia 38:38
It's funny because she actually she sees it she she just you know, every personality is different. But she's a very science minded, very analytical, I think, you know, somebody would tell her, this is what you do, and she would do it. And and I think she would also be very she's very goal oriented. I think she'd be very driven to like, get that a one C down. Like that would be

Scott Benner 39:00
it would be interesting to her. Do you find that? Do you listen to the show? I'm sorry?

Cynthia 39:05
I do. Yes. And I found it very early, like before we left the hospital,

Scott Benner 39:09
okay. I only asked because you talk to adults, and they fall into those camps. Like some of them are just like what I've diabetes, watch me knock this down. Like I knock everything else down. Like are there right it'll type A about things, which doesn't always lend to great outcomes because sometimes you can't. He can't really absorb the art part of diabetes then when you're trying to write strictly Yes. But so your youngest who has type one? What's her makeup? Is she kind of free spirited or is she Yes, She's

Cynthia 39:44
witty. She's definitely my free spirit. Yes. And yeah, she doesn't want to she wants to be a little be different.

Scott Benner 39:53
Yeah, I don't know how you explain to a person that when they're at that age, and they have that desire that you can't be different if you're not here or healthy. Right, you know, right. And it's so it's such an easy I don't mean easy, but it's so available. Like the health with type one. You know what I mean? Like for, for most people, and I think Pre-Bolus Singh puts her in the low sixes.

Cynthia 40:20
I 100% agree. And I think that's my biggest frustration and she gets so you know, I always okay, dinner's gonna be ready in 20 minutes. It's probably about 50 carbs. You know, I always provide that information. But then from there, I mean, I really, I can't do much else. Yeah, it feels it feels a little helpless. You can't

Scott Benner 40:43
do much else because what would happen if you want what kind of pump the show?

Cynthia 40:49
She's on the Omni pod. And she's literally only been on it for like four days. Oh, she was MTI until I think. I think she's even just on her very second. Oh, so yeah, four days.

Scott Benner 41:00
Oh, so you couldn't walk up to her? And just like a sticker with a needle. Alright, that makes sense. But I mean, what would stop you from walking out into the living room next time and going 50 carbs and pushing the buttons while you're saying it and go boom, and then put it down next to her and then watch her have a better outcome with her meal?

Cynthia 41:17
Yeah, that would that would turn into a big power struggle. Like you're very upset with me that she would say this is my body. This is my health. This is you know, this is a me problem. Not a weed problem. That's one of her favorite lines.

Scott Benner 41:32
Oh, did she hear that somewhere?

Cynthia 41:35
Probably at therapy.

Scott Benner 41:38
Tell her that. Shut the hell up problem.

Cynthia 41:40
And, like I paid for that therapy. Love sleeping

Scott Benner 41:43
under a blanket. I don't think about it often. But you know, a comforter cost $100 I just wanted to bring that up. Let me explain to you how I made that. $100. Right. Yeah, it's it's a me problem. Oh, you just need your up.

Cynthia 41:59
Yeah. So it would it would turn into a power struggle, and it would just it would just be a fight. Have you? So

Scott Benner 42:07
can I ask are the other two? boys or girls?

Cynthia 42:13
Girl boy girl,

Scott Benner 42:14
and you're more west coast. Is that right?

Cynthia 42:17
Yes, we're Arizona. Okay.

Scott Benner 42:19
So you don't have to do you not have it in you to go? Shut the hell up?

Cynthia 42:26
Um, no, I've done that plenty of times.

Scott Benner 42:29
Right. And not and it doesn't get does it escalate like this? They're yelling after that. Does it turn

Cynthia 42:36
yelling and yelling?

Scott Benner 42:40
Oh, yeah. Everyone listening is like, oh, yeah, there's been yo, right. Right. But you know, it doesn't go like UFC. Like you guys don't start like round picking each other. Right? So it just it stays. Yeah.

Cynthia 42:53
It might just turn into her, you know, then just not coming to dinner and just Yeah.

Scott Benner 43:00
Oh, it turns into like a Oh, I was gonna say pouting. That's wrong. Well,

Cynthia 43:05
yeah. I don't know if pouting is right. But I mean, there have been times where yes, we have successfully seen the magic of a Pre-Bolus. And I don't I don't know why she doesn't.

Scott Benner 43:19
What's the bounce like in her blood sugar. Just keep doing it. Because variability what the variability is super important. Obviously, you don't have it, right. Like the standard deviation and stuff like that. You're bouncing up. She's bouncing up and down. Is it possible? She feels like is there possible some of this emotion stuff is coming from blood sugar fluctuation?

Cynthia 43:37
I probably yes. So like her her three days. So since she's been wearing the, the pump standard deviation is 49. So I mean, that's not great, right? But, um, but if I go more out to 60 days, we're looking at 70.

Scott Benner 43:55
Oh, no, no, we don't want that. Right. Baba Baba. Overnight. Oh, do you even get to inspect your blood sugar and make suggestions?

Cynthia 44:06
Yes. So we do she does let us follow her on Dexcom. She does let us manage her overnight. Okay, so

Scott Benner 44:17
let me stop you for a second. Does she allow you? Does she allow you to stay up overnight and not sleep while she's sleeping? Oh my god, it's really.

Cynthia 44:27
So yeah,

Scott Benner 44:28
I guess that's a you problem.

Cynthia 44:30
Right? That's an easy problem. She would tell me I don't have to. And I really and she in fact, if I ever were to say, you know, I lost a lot of sleep last night trying to manage your blood sugar. She would say you don't have to. I'm fine. Just leave it alone.

Scott Benner 44:45
She doesn't understand that all.

Cynthia 44:47
She just doesn't get it. And I you know, I have to remember that her brain is not fully formed.

Unknown Speaker 44:54
Right. So but yeah,

Cynthia 44:56
I think I think that's how her her agency has stayed in the center. Because I manage her overnight.

Scott Benner 45:02
Oh, oh, I bet you're right. Because I think that's the first place to steal a one C is over, right? Yeah, absolutely. Well, so where does she sits? Does she sits stable overnight? Or storage? Does that lack of Pre-Bolus and get a meal time? Just make that a mess into the 2am? Hour?

Cynthia 45:19
Well, boy, these last four days with that Omnipod she's been awfully stable overnight. Good, good, good. So that has helped for sure. But, um, I would say normally, and when she was MDI, I would have to do a correction in the night to keep to give like, we couldn't seem to ever find that magic number with the long acting insulin to keep her stable. So I'm not sure what, I don't know if it's just the formulation of the insulin, but it seems like we could never get it high enough to keep her level.

Scott Benner 45:55
I see. Are you going to work on? Like, where? Where has she been stable these last few nights that like, get a number?

Cynthia 46:02
Well, right now she's 73. Look at you. But most of the night she was and she's about to get up which is probably good. I mean, she's 73. But she's very steady right now. But she spent most of the night in the 90s.

Scott Benner 46:16
Nice. I like that. Now she'll get up and and what about her eating? Is she like, what kind of foods that she gravitate towards?

Cynthia 46:26
Carbs? Yeah. Yeah, she's definitely a typical teenager. And you know, he eats a lot of fast food and you know, likes those sugary coffee drinks that just kill me. I don't like those at all. I don't like she can drink them. Yeah,

Scott Benner 46:45
I've never drank them, but I don't like the way they smell. Oh, I don't I've never had coffee in my life ever wants. Okay, so

Cynthia 46:54
I love the smell of coffee. But I'm not a coffee drinker either. But then

Scott Benner 46:57
you start sweetening it up and putting like syrup in it and stuff. And I'm like,

Cynthia 47:01
great. She's basically drinking a milkshake when she goes to get these drinks. And I'm like, it just kills me again that she won't Pre-Bolus for them. She does Bolus for them. I mean, she does cover for them. But

Scott Benner 47:12
so these drinks are paid for by you

Cynthia 47:15
know, I would never pay for something like get a job. She does have she does a lot of kind of side jobs. And she didn't she worked at Target for a while. Yeah, she said some jobs.

Scott Benner 47:28
Yeah, it's tougher when they

Cynthia 47:30
have Yeah, cuz I would never pay for that. I won't buy things like that for the house. Right? I mean, we don't, I don't necessarily. I'm not against carbs. But I won't have those types of things that are going to spike her blood sugar excessively in the house, because if she would deal with them, I would be happy to buy her cereal. If she was gonna cover for it correctly.

Scott Benner 47:56
Cynthia, not a very common sense person. But am I missing something? Or is this just really like, she is her age? You think?

Cynthia 48:05
I really believe it is her age? And? Um, yeah, I mean, you talk to a lot of people that will say in my teenage years, I was so horribly managed, right. And I just think I'm going through it. And maybe it was when she was diagnosed, because they did. And we encouraged it for her to really just right away, take it and it be hers. And

Scott Benner 48:33
it's hard, though. I mean, it is hard, because there's the other side of it right is if you encourage her to take care of it. And she takes care of it. And then she goes to the end, and then it goes, Oh, my God, you're doing great. Then she thinks I took care of it.

Cynthia 48:46
And if that is that is my major frustration, right?

Scott Benner 48:50
Because had you stepped in first, you could have set a baseline for expectation. That's right. That's where the doctor would have said, Oh, my God, you're doing great. And then that would have been isn't that crazy? And then that would have been held as the expectation.

Cynthia 49:03
I think that's exactly where we went wrong. And now there's no going back from that until I think and again. I do think she's going to eventually get it. Um, she's a really smart girl. But I just think again, she's like, Mom, the doctor says I'm doing great.

Scott Benner 49:21
Yeah, the doctors the rate limiting factor here. I don't like her. That's right.

Cynthia 49:25
I don't either. And luckily, she is a pediatric Endo. And so we will be she will have to find somebody new soon. So I'm hoping that we can find somebody that will say, I mean, I will say at this last appointment, and the doctor did say, now that you're a team, you really need to have a lower a one C which just blew me away. Why does it matter if you're 18 or not? A one C can be higher? Yeah.

Scott Benner 49:56
Yeah, yo, do you didn't know Cynthia that when you're younger? The Laws of Physics and other things don't even apply to you. You're just fine. I used to, I would go in with Arden. And I'd be like, Listen, this isn't right. You know, her blood sugars are all over the place. And they go, Oh, it doesn't matter now. It's like, what now? Like, doesn't that doesn't seem like it makes any sense. And then damages damage, right? They would say that, Oh, she's so young, it won't matter. It feels opposite of what you're saying is true. And so I just ignored them and went on to do other, you know, try other things. Obviously, that led us all here. But it is fascinating that they're like, Oh, they're young. Like, what does that mean? Does that mean they're I make make sense of that for me? Like, what is that? You know, and there's no context, no one knows what they're talking about. I mean, honestly, if there'd be no podcast if people knew what they were talking about. Because you go to the doctor, and the doctor would say sensible things that made sense to you. That worked out and were real. And then things would happen after that you'd have success and yay. But that's just not how it works. And your daughter gets sucked into it. And believes it. I would love to talk, right? I would love to talk to a kid who thinks there's no way anyone's ever going to come on like that. Right? But like, how great would it be for me to sit with your daughter and be like, That's bullshit. Like what's true? Like you are less congested? Yeah, you're listening to a moron that just has more college education than you do? Think that's right. Is it? Right, who would say that?

Cynthia 51:32
I mean, I will say I do think because I know the, once you're in the type one world, you find no, all these people, other people that are in it. And I'm guessing the majority of her patients are not as well controlled as my daughter, which just blows me away.

Scott Benner 51:51
Oh, that's great. That's wonderful. So your daughter's bank robber so we can we can let her petty larceny go? Yeah,

Cynthia 51:58
exactly. Right. I think that that is what they see, though. Because she comes in to see my daughter. And it's like, they're all happy, like, Oh, it's a relief. I don't have a kid in here who's got a 12 a one C

Scott Benner 52:12
know, what they have in there as a kid whose mom is up all night, trying to steal a onesie overnight. So that'll be great. You'll be dead soon. And you know, your lack of sleep, right? It won't even be like a medical problem. You'll fall over and kill yourself from being tired. And and then your daughters they want to go to 11. Right? And then what's she gonna say then to her?

Cynthia 52:37
Yeah. So she actually hasn't even had her a one C checked since COVID. So since last May hasn't been checked and kills me. But I mean, at least we have the Dexcom numbers, so we have a good idea what it is. I think she's gonna have it taken this next time.

Scott Benner 52:55
Cynthia made me upset first thing back from my vacation. A bit with this conversation. I know this happens. And I know that I shouldn't rant about it too much. But I'll tell you, there's a doctor coming on pretty soon an endo. And it'll happen way before in the timeline before your episode goes up. But, you know, one of the things she said in her note to me was I started listening to podcasts, I love the things you were saying about diabetes made me feel more. Like I wanted to try harder, I think is how she put it. And except she called what I was saying doctor bashing. So I would say this, if you're a doctor and you feel like you're being bashed right now, you're just not doing a very good job. That's not my fault. You know? Like, I'm think of me as a sports commentator in this moment. And you're a wide receiver and people keep hitting you in the hands with the ball and you don't catch it. I'm not bashing you. You're not catching the ball. That's, that's there's something different there. Like holding somebody to account is not the same as as bashing someone. Right? You know? And, and this is just you can see the the lineage of how your daughter got put in this mindset.

Cynthia 54:09
Yeah, yeah. And I mean, that's just my biggest frustration is I feel like yes, she's told they're the person who's supposed to be the expert that she's doing a fabulous job and they wish all her patients were as good as her and I just, there's nothing I can do at that point. You know what I look for a new doctor which I would be um, except now it's kind of out of my hands.

Scott Benner 54:34
You should have looked at the doctor and said that's actually a you problem. Don't don't use don't use my daughter's health and welfare to make you feel better about what's happening here. And and don't Don't be lazy by the way. I'll give you this. Most people probably aren't going to listen to good to good advice or common sense or anything like that. I'm I'm aware of that. If, if, okay, so we'll let that be. But that doesn't excuse you, as the doctor from saying it. Like, it's still your job to say it, you might expect that they're not going to listen, and maybe they won't. But that's not an excuse for you not to tell them you have that is free. It's not a waste of time. That's your job. And you don't you don't get to make yourself feel better by telling Cynthia's daughter that her seven a one C is great, because it's good. And it's okay. And it's not terrible, but it's not great. What my daughter's a one sees ninth grade. And it's in the mid fives. It's really, really, really good. But it's not great. There's plenty of people walking around who don't eat carbs, there's a one C is 4.8. Very one C is great. You don't mean like in I just mean? Like, you have to you have to look at the scale. I mean, where am I?

Cynthia 55:57
I feel like I wish they would also look at the variability. I don't feel I feel like all the doctor would look at would be the a one see, but didn't look at the reports that they have access to. I have shared all that information on that they should they should see these three, four hundreds that she's sitting out for hours and hours and then comes crashing down to these scary lows.

Scott Benner 56:22
This doctors just looking at the A one say,

Cynthia 56:25
I think just the a one thing again, I

Scott Benner 56:27
say malpractice. That's right, you know, how can you ducky. So it's confirmation bias. The doctors just saying, look, if I stare at this number, I'm doing a good job for this kid. You know? Yeah, yeah, it's terrible. Well, do you have a time machine?

Cynthia 56:48
I'd like one, because if you had

Scott Benner 56:49
one, I can fix this whole thing for you. But right. Do you remember the day you met your husband? Because we're gonna need that date while we fix all this? Right? No, I listen, I feel for you. It is. It's stressful. And it makes you feel like you're failing. I would imagine it makes you feel like you're failing on a couple of levels, which is terrible for you. Because you have it sounds like all good intentions. And, and you're going about it the right way you are being respectful of her and how she feels. And I mean, that is definitely part of it. And you can't ignore like, I want to be clear, like we've joked around a little bit in this hour, like you can't ignore how your daughter feels you'll push her away. You're right. So you have to navigate this whole thing. without it taking so long that your daughter ends up on the podcast when I'm 60. And she's 27 going, I really wish I would have listened to my mom. And now I get these you know, you know, this happens to me and the doctor says maybe I'm gonna have to get that like you don't mean like, because that does. But people come on here and tell that story. I ignored my parents when I was 16. And now I'm 30 and I'm getting injections in my eyes to try to slow down retinopathy. People have come on here and talked about that.

Cynthia 58:06
So that are not that old. And I and I do think though even though her a one C is okay, she does have these high highs. Yeah, the last and are doing damage.

Scott Benner 58:20
Right. So how do you get through to her on that? Right? I don't know. I really don't know. You were that's why hold on here just for this. I mean, did you try bribing her with a big enough idea? Did you go I've tried.

Cynthia 58:36
I've tried so many different bribes. She doesn't seem bribable anymore. We seem like we've lost that ability.

Scott Benner 58:44
Yeah, I would imagine because the bribing feels like a loss of power to.

Cynthia 58:48
I think that's exactly you think you just nailed it. You're giving? Yes, she's just as like, I'm gonna do what I want to do at this point. And then having a job now, you know, they're harder to bribe when they have their own money. She

Scott Benner 59:06
feels autonomous. It's good. By the way, these are all good things.

Cynthia 59:09
Right. They're all great things if you took away the diabetes, and that's the probably the biggest frustration to is, you know, I feel like our relationship would be way better. Her health would be better her mental health would be better you know, it's so it is it's it's a big thing for a teenager to take on.

Scott Benner 59:28
And you've said that to her like in that way. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Like everything gets better if you just slightly in a slightly different timing fashion use your insulin.

Cynthia 59:39
Right? Yeah. And she knows I mean, you know, you catch her sometimes and you know, her blood sugar stable and you can have a more calm conversation that she like she seems to get it which I think is when she did decide, agree to wear a pump to try that for a while. You think, Okay, this is gonna go better? And it may be well for a day or two, and then she just doesn't want to. It's just because it is so day in day out. I mean, not not only day an hour, every hour, you're having to do something.

Scott Benner 1:00:16
Yeah, I am. I have to say I have a ton of compassion for her to it. It has to be so incredibly difficult to write to be

Cynthia 1:00:26
I do as well. Yeah. I mean, if I could take it just like any other parents, you know, if we could have it instead of our children, we would

Scott Benner 1:00:35
wonder if you could do something where you did it like every other day, like one day it was her and then the next day it was you. And like, if you could ease into it, so maybe

Cynthia 1:00:47
I again, I mean, she kind of lets us do the overnight, although I feel like that might be kind of going soon, too, because you know, she doesn't want us in her room at night. And she's an adult now. And now she's graduated from high school and

Scott Benner 1:01:04
well, so I was gonna say there every other night.

Cynthia 1:01:08
I'm hoping that finding a new endo will make a difference. And I'm really going to do a lot of research and trying to find somebody that I think will set a little bit higher bar.

Scott Benner 1:01:19
Do you think if she was here right now, and you weren't here, and I just said to her? Hey, be honest, like, you know, you should be doing that. Right? She just say, oh, yeah, I know. Yep. Yeah. Do you think she's screwing with you a little bit?

Cynthia 1:01:34
Maybe like a little bit of just showing that. She doesn't have to do what I say.

Scott Benner 1:01:40
Right that this is her side of the power struggle? Yeah, right. Yeah, there's probably here's how all assert and try to get the upper hand. I know people don't think of it that way. And you probably aren't consciously thinking of it that way. Or maybe even somebody Yeah,

Cynthia 1:01:54
and I don't think she would be consciously doing it either. Goes vindictive person. She's very kind and you know, person, but

Scott Benner 1:02:03
I want to say I don't mean power struggling like in like a nasty way. It's just a very human thing to want to be a

Cynthia 1:02:09
troll. Right? They just want to grow up. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:02:13
No, even the littlest things like, Have you ever restack dishes in the dishwasher on somebody?

Cynthia 1:02:19
No, but my husband does it to me all the time. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:02:22
Because in his mind, you're terrible at it. But do your dishes? Do your dishes come out clean? They cannot just find Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. Right there. That's literally what I'm talking about, is that just everyone thinks that their thing should be in charge that their thoughts and their ideas? That's what should be happening? Because that's what I think is right? And I'm it's just it's all it's got to be like animal instinct, the inside of you. Right? Like, just it works. Like it keeps us all alive. You know, trusting yourself. Because think I say this sometimes. But like, think of the alternative. Think of every idea your husband had he doubted? You wouldn't want that guy to be your husband. But you also don't want it to be so strong that he's like, look what you put the dinner plates again? Oh, my goodness, what a moron. Let me move. You know what I mean? Like, obviously, this is the way it has to go. Like, that's the wrong side too. But it drifts into people's lives like that. So is, is the answer here for you. If you love something, set it free. But the problem is, I think the rest of that saying is if it doesn't come back, you have to hunt it down and kill it. So you know, like, I mean, is more freedom, what she needs? And how long would it take if that happened for it to work into good health?

Cynthia 1:03:44
Right? Like, I mean, how bad do I let it get?

Scott Benner 1:03:48
Well, maybe you call her bluff? Or maybe you know what you are right? I can't believe it. But you don't say it with the sarcasm in my voice. But like, you are right, you're an adult. And this is all yours. So, you know, I'm, I'm gonna let you take care of it. I trust you. I wonder how quickly she'd be like, Whoa, where are you going? Wait, because maybe that's your power move, then. Maybe that's your power move. To get your power back. Maybe you have to give it to her. I know for sure that that is the plot of a lot of science fiction movies. Okay. So maybe that'll work in real life. You give her the weapon. It's hers. And then

Cynthia 1:04:32
how do I let her float it to 50 then all night long. I don't know where I go do something about it.

Scott Benner 1:04:38
Did you see the Facebook post in the private group where there was a kid that wasn't managing themselves well, and they'd got like super high. And some of the adults this is where I love the group because the group is pretty mixed between adults with type one and parents of type one. It's a great atmosphere. If you can be open minded because you will get different perspectives. And a couple of longtime type ones came in and said, Oh, you know, you know, let it happen, let her throw up. And then you know, parents like you can't tell them to let her kid going to decay. And they thought it was lovely. And and it wasn't fighting. It was like it was a good spirited conversation. And while I don't think not, not, I don't think I did not read any intention from the adults, like, Oh, let your kids go into decay as a punishment system so they can see what it's like. But what they said was, from their perspective, some kids don't listen, trust me, maybe they were one of them. And the only thing that brought them around was seeing the end of the tail that your wag your finger about, you know, like, you understand this is bad for your health. But you never let them get to that part because obvious reasons. And so they don't really believe it happened. So there were a couple of adults who were like, look, blood sugar will get I started throwing up, you know, and you know, of course, you're going to go into decay really quickly. It's super scary, and very, very, you know, bad and not medically nude. No one's telling anybody to do that. But it was from a theoretical point of view that they were having the conversation. And I'm not saying let your daughter like spiral into decay. Certainly, because there are other problems that come with higher blood sugars, like she might become more resistant and less easy to deal with than she already is. If sugars go up and up and up. But I'm wondering if she isn't still young enough that we're faced with the real possibility of managing this 24/7 on her own if she wouldn't say, Well, I don't really want that, because she lets you have the evening, right? Like, blah, blah, blah, why don't you tell her look, I'm happy to do overnight. But I want to Pre-Bolus the meals for a month, just so we can see how it goes. Like maybe you could actually get her variability down, and maybe she'll be more clear minded.

Cynthia 1:06:54
Yeah, I feel like she would be.

Scott Benner 1:06:57
So I mean, do you think you could get her to just a month like a trial? No. Really? What if she didn't know?

Cynthia 1:07:06
I mean, we've tried that. You know, we we I've tried just to get her to do one meal. And every now and then she will or sometimes she'll just do it and then Dinner takes longer than she thought it was going to

Scott Benner 1:07:18
Alright, how much or is her older sister?

Cynthia 1:07:21
I'm nine years.

Scott Benner 1:07:24
Do you think she could help her?

Cynthia 1:07:27
Maybe? Yeah, I mean, her siblings have been super supportive

Scott Benner 1:07:31
or get supportive. Do you think you can get to the older sister? And tell her look, this is what's going on? I need you to backchannel this. Maybe that's how wars are won. Seriously? Oh, yeah. They're number one the way you are. So I mean, maybe if she'd listened to her more. And it's got to come from a very like, Hey, how you doing? How's everything? How's the diabetes going? Like, he can't be like mom said that your schmuck like he can't be like that, right? But maybe a voice other than yours. How about your husband? Does he? Does he try? Or is he just like, oh my god, please? I'm so close to retirement. Like what?

Cynthia 1:08:09
No, he's super supportive of me and her. I feel like he's sort of this, like neutral.

Scott Benner 1:08:15
Yeah, field, Switzerland, you know, like,

Cynthia 1:08:18
like, he'd like her to do heat. And he does see that he wishes she would do more to, and he helps with the, you know, nighttime stuff as well. So yeah, that he does remain more neutral. He doesn't get as emotionally involved as I tend to,

Scott Benner 1:08:37
I don't, I don't direct this at you. And I genuinely am not directing this at you, but you brought it up. So I'm gonna, like, go a little deeper into it before I am assuming you have to go to work before I let you go. That idea of like, oh, everyone's so supportive. I don't know what that means. Like, if you're not in there throwing hands with me, then I don't care that you're standing behind me going like go go go, I don't want go go go. I went get in here and help me hold this alligator down while I tie his mouth shut. Like Like, don't, don't just tell me you've got my back, like, get in the fight a little bit. And I hear that from so many people. Oh, she's so supportive. Or this one's tough. I'm like, I don't know what that means. Like, I'm struggling over here. I need help. I don't need support. Like, you know, when you know, when we won't need support when we're not resting on the alligator anymore. That's what we'll just go live our lives. So I just think that I think that in so many interpersonal relationships, somebody gets tasked with this terrible thing, mate, you have to do like having this embroiled, you know, conversation with your children you don't want to have and then there's always a person who stands the back and I heard somebody say to me one time it's not a person who's ever been on the podcast. I'm sure they may never be on the podcast. She said all my husband's a good man. He doesn't get involved in this though. I'm like, Well, I don't know. And all that means is a good man was he doesn't hit you. And he brings this paycheck home like 35. Like, how are we judging this? Exactly? You know what I mean? Like, this person is struggling mightily with a problem that her husband will not get involved in. And yet when it comes up, oh, he's a good guy. Oh, my God, you gotta raise your bar a little bit here. You know, like, I don't know what that means. Like, I like, I just I don't know what that means. You're having trouble, like, you need people to help you. You know, you're this is look at you. You're on your own your list. You're talking to me trying to figure a thing out. I mean, Cynthia, really, this is a bottom of the barrel move. You know, you're out of ideas. Lower. You're like, I will let my story be fodder for a podcast so that hopefully something comes up in the conversation that might help me that's desperate. Right. You know,

Cynthia 1:10:53
I honestly believe that there are a lot of mothers and probably fathers out there that are in exactly my same position.

Scott Benner 1:11:02
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, no.

Cynthia 1:11:06
A hard one. When these kids that are becoming adults.

Scott Benner 1:11:09
Oh, Cynthia, is this happening to everybody? Not just Oh, yeah, this is happening to absolutely almost everybody, except those of you who are lucky to have some, like, super type a kid who's just like, sees those numbers like a video game and just trying to like put them where they want. Right, right.

Cynthia 1:11:27
Yes. And those kids are out there for sure. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:11:31
Everyone else? This is a this is the game. Right, right here. Well, the next time I talked to one of the therapists that come on the show, I'm going to, I'm going to, I'll bring this up as a topic, and I'll see what I can do. But I mean, until she's willing to bend. I mean, right. I mean, any negotiation needs two sides to be willing.

Cynthia 1:11:54
Right? Yeah. And she has her moments. And so that's why I do believe she's going to get there. I just can't find the right negotiation tactic at this point. To get her there sooner. I just like to get her there sooner.

Scott Benner 1:12:13
I find myself wondering if the adults listening aren't thinking like, oh, just let it go. It'll work itself out. And then there's gonna be some who think don't let it go, because it's just gonna get worse. But I feel for you, and I right, I understand exactly how you feel. I have felt the exact same way. I mean, not the same situation, but I felt the same way.

Cynthia 1:12:33
And even the therapists that you know, so the professionals that we've turned to because you know, we don't have I don't have to have found a therapist that has type one or really can understand it. So they don't, they probably think I need to back off to

Scott Benner 1:12:50
you're not in California or you were not.

Cynthia 1:12:53
i Yeah, I've heard your

Scott Benner 1:12:55
Sarika is good. Erica. Yeah. Yeah, well, right.

Cynthia 1:13:01
Endo, and therapists, you know, they're kind of just

Scott Benner 1:13:05
you need, you need allies,

Cynthia 1:13:08
right? I've got no one. It's just me and my husband, he's definitely supporting

Scott Benner 1:13:13
people to come into the fight. They're going on the other side,

Cynthia 1:13:17
right. We're just trying to find that balance of not ruining our relationship with our daughter forever over this. I appreciate that. But then also, again, being you know, again, that, to me, her health is a non negotiable, you have to take care of it. And we do have some very strict guidelines on you know, if you're going to drive our car, your blood sugar's need to be here, you need to be doing these things. So

Scott Benner 1:13:42
that's all that's all. That's candy ash. I wish you were more east coast. Because you would have gotten on top of this a couple of years ago, I would have, okay, a couple of fearful moments would have snapped right in the place. I think. I picture picturing my father. I haven't told the story in a long time. But I was sick when I was younger, just something simple. And you know, everything wasn't as great as it is nowadays. And they gave us this giant pill. It was like this dry tablet was really hard to swallow. And I balked against swallowing it. And I think the next thing I remember is my dad's finger, just like you know, in my mouth, then I was like, oh, okay, I guess I can't

Cynthia 1:14:20
swallow, swallowing a lot.

Scott Benner 1:14:23
And again, I don't I'm not saying that that's the vibe, but in the 70s You know, in certain parts of the world, like you didn't, you didn't get a vote on how this happened. And if I was 18, and I and my dad was, you know, gone by them, but I don't think it would have mattered to him that I was 18 I certainly don't think so. Around stuff like that, like a medical right, or safety thing. You know, I think that I think that if I was 25 and I did something, you know, illegal I don't think it would be met with tell me how you feel. I think it would be met with You know, something far harsher? And, again, I don't think I'm not saying you should do that. I'm not even saying that I would do that. I'm just saying that there's somewhere in between where we are now. And where we came from has there has to be a balance in there somewhere like your daughter, not that I want people to be afraid. But she's not afraid of you at all. Because if she know if she was, she'd bend, you know what I mean? Like, there's no, again, I want to be clear, I'm not saying rule by fear. I'm just saying that things have swung so far in another direction, that when you get into an untenable situation, you have nowhere to go from here. Like you're now stuck hoping that your daughter figures out that her health and her life are valuable enough to pay attention to this, and that she can see through what the doctor saying, and all these other things that I'm pretty sure she's not equipped for. You know, it's a weird world. Yeah, you shouldn't have kids. This was your mistake.

Cynthia 1:16:01
That it was the third maybe I should have stopped.

Scott Benner 1:16:06
No, no kids are delayed. There's just times where it's like, it's so good in the beginning, right? And then like, even Yeah, it'll they're like 12 They're amazing. Even get some good ones that you know, up into 17. situ, but then right in that space 1821 in there, man. And they are really starting to like see things and but they don't see enough of it yet. The make a full form, right?

Cynthia 1:16:30
Yes, they don't have they don't really have a full vision, but yet they think they do.

Scott Benner 1:16:36
And if right now, if you're listening, and you're 21 you're like, Who the hell is it? But trust me, you are going to get to a spot where you look back on yourself at 21 and think you didn't know what I was talking about. That's amazing. And yeah, and that's part of the fun of life, actually, except when part of those things can be a medical issue that might cause like, real permanent problems. So wow, I'm sorry. Yeah, I was.

Cynthia 1:17:02
Okay. We're getting through it. And I mean, she's a great kid. So Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:17:09
I never meant to say otherwise.

Unknown Speaker 1:17:11
I know, I don't feel like yeah, good. Good. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:17:14
I'm sure. I'm sure it's gonna work out great.

Cynthia 1:17:17
makes it so hard. Just watching that. Yeah. Yeah. Knowing that there are just I mean, literally, just the Pre-Bolus alone, I think would keep her out of those three 350s 400. Sometimes we would. And then the other thing, I just can't understand that she has the Dexcom with these alarms with why you're not responding to the alarms just to respond to the alarm, and then

Scott Benner 1:17:44
come on up. Have you ever worked fine. Have you ever walked into the house and been like, I can't be the only one hearing that? Right? Yeah, but you are.

Cynthia 1:17:54
She wants me She wants me to bug her less about it. I'm like, so then respond to the alarm.

Scott Benner 1:18:01
You know why you hear it? And they don't, right? You hear it? Because you gave birth to her and you care about her thing on the whole planet. That's why there really is it's true. It is it is harder to care about yourself than it is to care about somebody else. That's that. And it's, it just becomes the truth. No one's going to care about her the way you do. It, just really, it ends up being, you know, honestly true. And I'm sure one day she'll meet somebody that is going to care about her a absolute ton. And then one day, they'll connect themselves together with family, maybe, and then they'll start having that feeling about each other. But I care about the woman in my house now, differently than I cared about her when she was my girlfriend, and differently than I cared about her when I was married to her and we didn't have kids. And that stuff grows. And you're just you're at the pinnacle of that right now. You know, you don't want anything bad to happen to her and trying everything you can think of to stop it. And that's a that's, I mean, that's the whole that's the gig. Right? That's the whole job. Right? Yeah. And, you know, the truth is, you don't have any real sway over that with your other two kids, either. You're just not seeing it as starkly because it's not medical. Right,

Cynthia 1:19:23
correct. Yeah. Correct. Yeah. And I mean, we definitely went through this with our other two children, for sure. You know, that, that when they have turned that magical 18 number when they're in high school, and they think that that means that they then should no longer have a curfew or house rules or anything. Right. You know, we went through that it's just on a different level when you introduce diabetes into it.

Scott Benner 1:19:45
Yep. No, I hear you. diabetes sucks. I hear what you're saying.

Cynthia 1:19:49
It does. Doesn't really does terrible.

Scott Benner 1:19:53
We're trying to make it more fun and more accessible and easier with the podcast. That's Mike All

Cynthia 1:20:00
right. And I do appreciate that I do find a good sense of community from it. I don't listen to it as much as I did, you know, in the beginning. And but so now I want to watch or listen more to episodes that look like they might apply more to me or especially product updates. I'm always interested in that, hoping that that Omni pod horizon will come out sometime soon.

Scott Benner 1:20:25
There are people listen, there are people who listen to it like it's religion. There are people who listen just the way you described, I think there are people who stay more in the the management topics. There are people who stay out of the management topics and love to convert, like there are people who are going to listen to this and love this. And because it's just a real conversation about anything like you, you and I could have. We could be on a podcast right now that's not about diabetes, and just be talking about raising kids and what it's like and teenagers right? would not have been any different. So yeah, so people listen, always, as long as you're subscribed in your podcast app. I am. That's what matters most listening,

Cynthia 1:21:06
I have a feeling I will probably transition to listening less and less in the years coming but it has been a great community resource to me over the year

Scott Benner 1:21:14
we completely believe and understand that so but never unsubscribe. Cynthia or Okay, Dr. House and take all the knowledge I gave you. I will take it back. Okay,

Cynthia 1:21:23
okay. I have even subscribed my daughter to it. I don't know that she's listened. But it is subscribed on her phone as well. So there you go. Oh, I

Scott Benner 1:21:32
hope she did make it listen,

Cynthia 1:21:33
I just hope that one day she'll be have nothing to do. And she'll be in her podcast app and think what is this?

Scott Benner 1:21:41
The kids have something to do constantly. Right? They're so connected to everything. It's, it's fascinating. What I imaginal hap, listen, if you want to make a prognostication what's gonna happen is what happens to everybody. Something's going to come up in her life that makes her realize that her health is important. And then she will hopefully find good answers to to lead her to those things. Like, if you listen to everyone, listen, first of all, let me just say this, Cynthia is a sentient being who can do whatever she wants, but you should all be listening to every episode. And so if you listen to those episodes, you'll hear those conversations, you'll hear people having that moment. And it's almost always tied to the concern for another person. It'll be she gets a boyfriend or a girlfriend, or whatever her deal is, and she loves them. And she's like, I want to be healthy and be around for this person. Or, you know, people have babies, and then they're like, oh, I have to be healthier for the pregnancy. And then now I need to be healthy to be here to take care of them. People, I think need to be needed. And when they are, then they see themselves as more important all of a sudden, like, I don't think people see themselves as important until they're tied to love is that the right word? Like I don't know, like, I guess you can love yourself and have that feeling. But you have to love something deeply enough that you want to be around for it. And I know that's not a that's not an absolute. But having conversations with people over and over and over again, if you really dig into what they're saying. They're saying at some point, I needed to be here, and I realized it. So I'm assuming she'll realize that too. Maybe it'll be art. Maybe it'll be like, whatever her love is or something. And it doesn't have to be a person. It could be a thing. It could be an idea. It could be a vocation, or calling or something. So maybe you just have to let go a little bit. And yeah, trust the process. That's what we did in Philly, and we're working to win a playoff spot and basketball, maybe fun. Yay. Trust the process. That's a very, I'm sure most people don't understand what I'm saying now. But we drafted a lot of people and traded them till we got the fight. We want it not not the point of this point is let go a little bit taller, you're concerned and your lover and you're here. She knows you understand it, right? Like the diabetes. Okay, so yeah, I think that you're inept.

Cynthia 1:24:16
Yes. And I think it's a little frustrating to her how much I understand it. I think she she thinks why are you doing this? You don't have diabetes, because again, for her, it's a me thing. Not a weed thing.

Scott Benner 1:24:30
So I went away. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to cut you off. I apologize. I went away this week. And Kelly said that in the first two days Arden's like, Don't worry, I have my diabetes. And she took she did a really great job. So but why did that happen? My wife didn't feel well. And so Artem was like okay, I'll take this off of her. And then it's just doing a very good job of it. And you Yeah, and but again, if Kelly would have kept doing it, then I guess Arden would have kept letting it get done. Cuz I'm like, I'm out of this. Like, if you need something, let me know.

Cynthia 1:25:12
And do you feel like Arden lets you do that just because you always have? I mean, what do you think she would be like had she not had diabetes until she was almost 16? Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:25:26
I don't know. Oh, my God, I probably would have to kill her. But I would probably have to dig a hole on some property somewhere and get rid of now I don't know, like, I have no way of telling. I mean, right, you got it when she was 16, it would have been more difficult. Like we had there's a Pentameter to our care, right, there's a way it flows and runs exactly right becomes accepted at some point. That's why I said in the very beginning, maybe if you would have like, just done it, then either would have been the power structure would have been in your favor. And then it would have drifted to her. Instead of it started in her favor, like you basically elected an actor as president. And you know what I mean, and now you're the like, the tried and true politician over here going, I don't think you understand how this works. It's like too late. I'm in charge, baby. You know, like,

Cynthia 1:26:17
the coaches telling her that she's doing it. Well. Yep. And she's doing a great job. So

Scott Benner 1:26:24
she thinks it's all going. Well tell her I said, it's not going bad. is nothing to be ashamed of. Right. She's doing well. There's just there's there's simple improvements to be made that would would reap incredible benefits. I know. Yeah. All right. Well, listen, shorter meat come in there and living in your house. I don't know what else to do knock some sense into her talk through it. You know, I mean, do you have any idea what you're going to do? With what with all of this, like, you're going to leave here and think about this? Do you have any idea what you're going to try next? Did anything make more sense than the other? Well,

Cynthia 1:27:03
you know, it's funny, the timing and that she's been on the pump for this few days. And it's going well, so at this point, I'm sort of trying to back off a little bit more, and let her do this pump. And just keep being the, you know, hey, if she's eating dinner with us, just keep providing the dinner's ready in 20 minutes, and it's 50 carbs reminder.

Scott Benner 1:27:29
Have you have you considered just adding directive to your reminder, so hey, dinner's in 20 minutes. It's gonna be 50 carbs Bolus now? Yeah,

Cynthia 1:27:40
yeah, I do. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah. I mean, she often doesn't, but, um, but sometimes she does. Let me she had a really good meal yesterday. So and like I said, it's going a little better. But I'm probably am. It's summer. Now. She has graduated. And I probably am going to start backing off more at night time and

Scott Benner 1:28:03
see what happens next.

Cynthia 1:28:04
Yeah, see what happens. Don't Don't worry. Maybe just follow up with her about how she feels. And and the other thing is, we are looking for a new doctor. Right. So I would think those would be kind of our two.

Scott Benner 1:28:17
Maybe you got to let her come to you a little bit on it. So yeah, right. Well, this was fun. And by fun, I mean, a clear, clear directive to single people not to have children. I think everyone heard that. Oh, my God. That's exactly how it was to my mom. I should avoid children. I would I would think we've stopped people from having sex right now. But this conversation like, I'm worth the risk,

Cynthia 1:28:39
right? Gosh, no, they're worth it. They're all worth it.

Scott Benner 1:28:43
It really is. I love having kids. Which is why I guess I can like joke about it. But still, I mean, honestly, if you look

Cynthia 1:28:52
hard, it's emotionally exhausting.

Scott Benner 1:28:55
You could find yourself in your early 20s and be like, hey, guess what's gonna happen? Never believe yourself. You'd be like, That's great. My kids are cool. I'm cool. It's gonna be great. Yeah, okay, fine. Anyway, good luck with all that. Thank you very much for doing this. A huge thank you to one of today's sponsors. G voc. Glucagon. Find out more about Chivo Kibo pen at G Vogue glucagon.com forward slash juicebox you spell that? G VOKEGL. You see ag o n.com. Forward slash Juicebox. Podcast was also sponsored today by the Dexcom G six continuous glucose monitor. And you could do no smarter thing today then to go to dexcom.com forward slash juice box and get started with the Dexcom G six. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.

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