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The Juicebox Podcast is from the writer of the popular diabetes parenting blog Arden's Day and the award winning parenting memoir, 'Life Is Short, Laundry Is Eternal: Confessions of a Stay-At-Home Dad'. Hosted by Scott Benner, the show features intimate conversations of living and parenting with type I diabetes.

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#1363 Caregiver Burnout Series: Part 3

November 20, 2024Scott Benner

Erika Forsyth provide strategies and encouragement for caregivers to manage nighttime sleep disturbances and burnout.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Here we are back together again, friends for another episode of The Juicebox podcast.

Erica is back for part three of the caregiver burnout series, and don't forget, if you'd like to hire Erica, you can learn more about her at Erica forsyth.com. Nothing you hear on the Juicebox podcast should be considered advice medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. Don't forget to save 40% off of your entire order at cozy earth.com. All you have to do is use the offer code juice box at checkout. That's Juicebox at checkout to save 40% at cozy earth.com if you are the caregiver of someone with type one diabetes or have type one yourself, please go to T 1d exchange.org/juice box and complete the survey. This should take you about 10 minutes, and will really help type one diabetes research. You can help right from your house at T 1d exchange.org/juicebox, I know that Facebook has a bad reputation, but please give the private Facebook group for the Juicebox podcast, a healthy once over Juicebox podcast, type one diabetes.

This episode of The Juicebox podcast is sponsored by ag one, I start every day with a delicious drink of ag one, you could as well drink, AG, one.com/juice box. Today's episode of The Juicebox podcast is sponsored by Omnipod and the Omnipod five learn more and get started today at omnipod.com/juice box and that Omnipod iPhone app you've been waiting for, it's available right now in the Apple App Store, Erica, we are going to jump into episode three, the third part of our caregiver burnout series. Today we're going to talk about what

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 2:10
that's right today, we are going to talk about the third burden or barrier to why it's challenging to take care of yourself as a caregiver or find time to care for yourself, and that is managing type one and the experience of nighttime sleep disturbances. Again, this is the third most common burden or issue that parents have identified in all of the research around caregiver burden for children with type one,

Scott Benner 2:41
when it's time, can I read the quote from the research? Yes, I'm gonna

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 2:45
pass it over. It's time. Read the quote. This is from the parent from the from the research, getting,

Scott Benner 2:51
getting the character. Let's see, I'm sad and tired. Okay, I got it. Yes. I feel unhappy when I think about not sleeping, feeling anxious and feeling tired and moody all the time. So it's rather contradictory, because I'm obviously satisfied that things are well and that my child feels fine at the same time, I may not feel satisfied because I do not feel well, really. Okay. So what this person is saying is, right, like I've got, I got my ducks in a row here. Kids doing good, but I'm up at three in the morning Bolus in a 140 and I feel like I'm gonna drop dead because I'm unbroken sleep might be the worst thing that could happen to you. I used to think, I guess, in the beginning, when Arden was first diagnosed, and I realized, Oh, I'm awake at two in the morning for 45 minutes, and then I'm up again at 430 for 15 minutes. I actually, in the beginning, I thought, I can do this. It's okay. I guess this is what it is. And then as the years went on, I mean, there were times like I one time I woke my wife up and I said, I need you to watch Arden's blood sugar. I feel like I'm gonna have a heart attack. Like I like I was yes, I was buzzing, and my heart was like thumping out of my chest. I was exhausted, but I had so much adrenaline, it didn't matter I was awake. And I'm not that guy. I am head on the pillow. Go to sleep like I don't. I do not struggle to sleep. Prior to ardence, diabetes, I would not have been a person who I thought could have just woken up at two in the morning and stayed awake before stayed awake for 45 minutes or an hour or something like that. I just wasn't that person. But then I was, and I actually tricked myself for a long time into thinking, Well, I'm gonna be okay. This will be all right. This is, I guess, this is how I live, and I'll be okay. And then one day, I thought, I'm gonna die if I don't, if I don't fix this, you know, yes, and then CGM and algorithms came, and it got easier, but, but tell me more about it, please.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 4:46
Yes. I mean that that tension between you know, you need to sleep, but just as important, you wanting to make sure your child stays alive and or doesn't have a. Have a low or stay high for hours. And so this is, obviously, this, the state of sleep deprivation is really common in the beginning of diagnosis. And as we've talked about, you know, the seasons of change, particularly from, you know, changing devices or growth hormones, etc, etc. So this, you know, the fear, this is probably one of the greatest fears among parents, at least according to the research. But I would also probably say, from what we hear on the podcast and in in my office, you know, this is the greatest feared outcome. Is your child having a hypoglycemic reaction or seizure. And so then that fear is driving. You're just wanting to monitor whether you're finger pricking every half an hour to an hour, or watching the CGM. And so even, as you just said, parents know and experience you have short tempers over long periods of time of not sleeping, you are not motivated to exercise. You have difficulty making decisions. You have you might have some impairment in your work performance or functioning. You might not make the dietary choices that you are striving for. You have decreased patients and irritability. So you're then stuck in between this tension of, I so desperately want my child to be safe at night, and I so desperately need to sleep, and I and I know that I'm not functioning well, yeah, but yet, as the parent says, but then you feel well because your child's doing okay at night, right? You're

Scott Benner 6:37
proud and exhausted at the same time. And yes, it's funny, because you said hypoglycemia is what people are worried about in the research, I was worried about both. Like, that's the other thing. Like, I'm freaked out when somebody says, Oh, you know, I needed to sleep through the night, so we just put their blood sugar at, you know, 180 and left it there all night, or 200 or wherever you put it. I'm like, Oh, God. Like, don't do that. Don't do the other thing either. Like, that's the to me, that's the that's the push and the pull and the anxiety of the whole thing, which is, like, you can't be low, that's dangerous right now, and I don't want you to be high, because that's dangerous later. And, you know, I'm exhausted, but in my mind, you know, if I go to sleep now and don't do something about this, either you're going to have a seizure or your eyes are going to explode when you're explode when you're 35 and like, and that's how it feels like it just, it feels like, no matter, like I have to do the right thing to avoid both sides of this, you know, Storm and, you know, like in the middle feels so narrow, like the line you're trying to walk, it feels, it feels like a tightrope, right? And you know, just, it's not easy, and then you're exhausted. And everything you just said about what comes with exhaustion, I know I've lived through all that, just, just every, everything you just said happened to me, and it's, I don't think it's a thing you can avoid, all those, all those implications,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 7:57
yes, yeah. So this is, it is challenging. And again, can be normal during certain, you know, ages and stages of your child's diagnosis. But what we're wanting to encourage you to think about, you know, if this is now becoming years and years and years, right, of of not being able to sleep, and so pausing and asking yourself, you know, noticing the why, what is going on. And so as we move into kind of the tool, you know, I say take breaks, and we're going to get into that, like, what does that actually mean? But I would encourage you to to start asking yourself, what is the risk and the benefit of studying the numbers? What is, what is the underlying reason that you cannot sleep? And this might feel a little bit similar to episode two of kind of pausing and listening to what is driving the behavior? Is it fear? Yes, it's probably fear of having, if your child up being too high for too long or having a low but what is underneath that? Do you need more education? Do you need more knowledge? Do you need more time? Do you need more trust with the alarms? And we'll get into that a little bit more. So what is, is it kind of general anxiety? Are you feeling anxious about everything, and that's keeping you up, and then you're watching the numbers, so just trying to understand what is is it might be grief also come, you know, in the beginning or at any point, what is it that is driving you to continue to monitor the lows beyond the obvious of what we've already said, Right?

Scott Benner 9:41
Guilt, maybe my daughter is 20 years old. I can't even believe it. She was diagnosed with type one diabetes when she was two, and she put her first insulin pump on when she was four. That insulin pump was an Omnipod, and it's been an Omnipod every day since then. That's. 16 straight years of wearing Omnipod, it's been a friend to us, and I believe it could be a friend to you. Omnipod.com/juicebox, whether you get the Omnipod dash or the automation that's available with the Omnipod five, you are going to enjoy tubeless insulin pumping. You're going to be able to jump into a shower or a pool or a bathtub without taking off your pump. That's right, you will not have to disconnect to bathe with an Omnipod. You also won't have to disconnect to play a sport or to do anything where a regular tube pump has to come off. Arden has been wearing an Omnipod for 16 years. She knows other people that wear different pumps, and she has never once asked the question, should I be trying a different pump? Never once omnipod.com/juicebox, get a pump that you'll be happy with forever. The holiday season is approaching quickly, and I'd like to take something off of your plate. If you're looking for something for a partner, a parent or a friend, why not give them the gift of health. Give them ag one. And right now, ag one is running a special Black Friday offer for all of November. Ag one is a daily health drink packed with nutrition to help alleviate bloating, support sustained energy and whole body health. It's the time of year where we put a lot of different stuff in our bellies, but the one thing we should put in there, my opinion, is ag one. So this holiday season, try ag one for yourself, or even gift it to someone special. It's the perfect time to focus on supporting your body with an easy and surprisingly delicious daily health drink. And that's why I've been partnering with ag one for so long. Every week of November, ag one will be running a special Black Friday offer for a free gift with your first subscription, in addition to the welcome kit and vitamin d3, k2, so make sure to check out drink a G one.com/juice box to see what gift you can get this week that's drink a g1 com slash juice box to start your holiday season off on a healthier note, while supplies last, yes, right? That could get you it's my fault. This comes from my side of the family, that kind of feeling, I think, also either being a single parent or having a spouse who you guys have decided that, well, they work during the day, so I'm the one that does this. Or, you know, I have to be honest, I hear a lot of people tell me, you know, I guess it, I guess it, it could be either side of it. But I hear a lot of women tell me, like, Oh, my husband says he's not getting he's not good at hearing things. So I'm like, Oh yeah, me either. But let's go. Like, so sometimes, I think sometimes in a two spouse situation, you'll find one that just goes, Oh, I'm not good at this. And then, you know, it gets laid on you, or you're the one that does the management, so it feels like you're the one that needs to be doing it. And, you know, people can kind of use that as either like a legitimate reason or a cop out for not being involved overnight, yeah, but at the same time, I don't know, I think you could set to see to me, it seems like a learning thing, like very much like we talked about before, like, if you if you had good tools, not just, not just, you know, CGM and pumps, which you know, would obviously make it easier, I think. But just like good knowledge of how insulin works and you know how to head things off before they become giant, you know, hyperglycemia issues or, you know, or hypo I think those tools will help you. And then maybe you start with a wider range that you're okay with overnight, and then learn how to through actions that happen prior to sleeping, you know, settings and bolusing strategies, etc, you know, learn to, like, tighten that tolerance as you go. I wish I could go back into it that way. I didn't have any of that information, but, but I can see where it would have saved me to do those things.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 13:53
Yeah, yeah. So, so, you know that's trusting. You know, can you trust? If you are using CGM, can you trust the alarms? As you were saying, right? Like, and if you can't, what is underneath that? Is that general anxiety? Is it not trusting? Is it too tight? Is it too wide? You know, what is your range?

Scott Benner 14:16
Also, the physical alarm? Like, maybe you just, maybe some people just don't hear it. Like, I know that I just kind of was sarcastic about it because, but sometimes you just don't hear it. I alarm, fatigue is very real. There's a ton of research about it. I don't hear the damn thing, like, half the time, like, you know, I mean, like, I'll hear the I'll hear the den, den, like, the real low one, yeah, but I don't, I don't hear the other stuff. And we actually just realized recently that my wife's phone her high alarm, like it's set where ours is, but she's not really that. My wife's not involved in like, moment to moment decisions about insulin. So I said to her, like, let's raise that alarm up so that if Arden goes over 120 your phone's not beeping every few minutes. I said, because I think. It's, I think we're just hearing it now and not reacting to it anymore. Like, let's put it at a place where, if it goes off, it wakes us up, because we're not accustomed to hearing it. And even though we're sleeping through it, I still think it's causing poor sleep for us as well. Yes, yeah,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 15:13
yeah, alarm, alarm, fatigue, not hearing it. I mean, I often, I think I've shared this before. I don't necessarily hear my alarms, that my husband will, but I will feel the vibration. My pump will vibrate. And so I often will feel that wherever it is, you know, in my bed. But there are certainly more, you know, sugar, all the different you know, sugar pixel glow. Glucose

Scott Benner 15:33
isn't Thank you. Glucose gloss is audible. It's visual, but I find it okay. So you want to go over these real quick, yeah, yeah. Let's do it. Sugar pixel has a puck. Actually, I have it right here. That's crazy, a puck that plugs into the sugar pixel and then it vibrates. You can kind of put it under your pillow, right? And hopefully that'll give you some vibration there. I like glucose because it I set ranges for colors, and then if I should wake up in the middle of the night and I look up and there's a soft green glow in the corner. I don't have to open my phone and look at it, because I think, okay. Green, good, back to sleep. Red, Oh, I gotta wake up and see. And it helps you to stay it helps me, at least, to stay aligned with what I'm trying to accomplish without it yanking me hard out of sleep. Now, you know, yes, that is cool. Yeah, it definitely helps with that. Also, if you get too low, if the blood sugar gets too low, it flashes red. Now, visually, I've never been woken by that, because I have it on a it's as dim as I can get it. I use it for just like it makes my wall glow a color off in a corner, and that's how I use it. But the sugar pixel itself that has alarms, and you could set it up to vibrate for yourself. It gets a great tool. I have a sugar pixel next to my bed. Arden doesn't have it because she's at college and she couldn't get it onto the to the Wi Fi like because her school's Wi Fi was blocking it. But I also know there are people who can get around that. Yeah, it's a weird monster. It's so the data so valuable, and the alarms are so valuable, until one day you just like, I don't hear this anymore. And that's, that's the end now, yes, what about the other side of it? If my daughter's low, my wife's cortisol shoots through the roof, and she can't go back to sleep. Like it hits her. She gets hit with adrenaline, even if I'm like, she's fine. She's like, it don't matter. I'm up. So does that happen to people too? I guess, right,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 17:31
yes. And, and I think with your different ages of your child, we have, yes, thank goodness we have all this technology if you're if you're able to use it and the the alarms, but also your body, for most, not actually, I don't know what the stats are. I wonder if you do of how many people can wake up from their lows. Because prior to my wearing a CGM, my body would wake itself up from a low now it doesn't, because now, now I'm reliant on my alarms if I go low, so I will not wake up and feel low prior to my alarm going off, but before I had alarms, my body would wake itself up. My brother would never wake up from a low and consequently had some more morning seizures. Okay, so I wonder, I don't know. I've never actually thought through this, but I wonder if our bodies have become more dependent on the alarms, as opposed to waking themselves up, Bolus, I don't know,

Scott Benner 18:27
you can also get, like, hypo, hypoglycemic unawareness and that, well, yes, yeah, which can come from that it described to me when it when your body used to wake you up, what did it feel like? You remember the visceral feeling?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 18:40
Yo, yes. Like, it was pretty classic, you know, shaky, racing heart. Those would be the the first I would wake up and feel shaky, wake you

Scott Benner 18:51
up, like, physically pop you open. Or, like, you know, when you're dreaming, and you realize in your dream, you like, I gotta pay, and then you wake up because you gotta pay. Like, that kind of, how does it work? How did it work?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 19:01
The shaking wouldn't wake me up, but not like I was seizing, but it would. I would wake up feeling that way, feeling shaky, and would just roll over and pop some glucose in my mouth.

Scott Benner 19:13
Did you stay awake to see if it worked? No, I

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 19:16
would take three and go back to bed and probably wouldn't even finger prick. Yeah, that was back in the day. Take three and you're good, yeah,

Scott Benner 19:23
three should be it. Boom. Done that. Did you wake up in the morning super high, or was it usually okay? Oh yeah, I'll fix this by making my blood sugar 350 but, but, you know, at a certain age, right in college, maybe, like, just, it's great that you did it honestly now, but you say now, as an adult, your husband's the one that wakes

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 19:46
you. He'll hear the alarms and think, you know, due to technology, I don't have as many nighttime alarm or lows, right, because the pump will shut off, but if I do have a low I would say. Most often I'll hear or feel the vibrate or the alarm and wake up and then feel low. How often

Scott Benner 20:06
does that happen to you in a month,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 20:08
a nighttime low? Maybe twice, okay? And that only happens if I've eaten late and have I have a lot of insulin on board before going to bed, and so that just means I over bullish. But if I if everything is okay, and I naturally go low, my pump will shut off, and I'll never

Scott Benner 20:26
you'll wake up in the morning and say, Oh, I was 65 for an hour and they came back. I was, yeah, yeah, gotcha. That's interesting. Okay, so I'm sorry, back to, back to,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 20:35
yeah, it's okay. So I mean, yeah, nighttime. What is driving that fear right beyond the normal? Is it fear? Anxiety? Is it guilt? Is it shame? You know, we've talked about, what, what gremlins? What thoughts are you having as you're watching the arrows? Are you on that roller coaster of fear, of shame, anxiety, as you watch your child's numbers rise and fall. So what do you do? I know a lot of people, particularly in the beginning, and I understand and get it and validate it, but you might spend all day watching the numbers, staring at it, yeah. And then, even if you're in you know range, and you feel like you're in a comfortable space, it's hard. You can't tell your mind to say, oh, it's night time. I'm going to stop looking at the numbers, right? It's hard to make that switch. So if you're Reliant and dependent and accustomed to staring at the numbers for most of the day, it's hard to just turn that off at night. And so when one tool to take an actual break during the day, for example, not looking at at your and this is, again, mostly we're talking to people who are, you know, doing follow or watching your child's number on a CGM app, not look at it for starting with five minutes, if you're if you're looking at it, or if it's constantly up in your screen again. If you are able to function and you feel comfortable and everything is flowing, that's great. But if you are finding that you are riddled with fear and shame and guilt and need to feel like you're fixated on the number and want to take a break, this is, this is something that you could try to say, Okay, I'm not gonna look at the number for five minutes, or an increase to 10 or an hour, whatever feels like wherever you are in that threshold that feels like a challenge initially, and then grow, yeah, and during that time you will that will give you clues as to what's going on. Are you panicked? Are you fearful? Are you able to distract yourself and trust what's going on with where your child's number is and how much insulin is on board, etc? And so during that initial time, it might be hard to be like, what else can I do? You know, whether it's make a phone call, do something positive for yourself, any kind of distraction that is helpful, but noticing in those breaks of when you're not looking at the CGM or the number, that is an indicator of what is in going on inside you emotionally. Does that? Does that make sense? It

Scott Benner 23:13
does. Can I I'm gonna this is not a left turn, I promise you. No, go ahead. Encouraged me while we're talking right. How does social media platforms keep your attention through dopamine hits for instant gratification. Dopamine has another name. It could be adrenaline. So it gives you that a social validation loop. It's another thing that social media does to keep you and you're validating that you you're doing something important. It gives you that feeling of completeness, that you've completed something people love, that it hits you with, uh, FOMO, right? So the fear of missing out on something, there's something called notification triggers. So push notifications come. It draws you back into the app. It makes you feel like there's something interesting happening, like, this whole thing, there's an engagement loop that comes from that. And then there's social comparison, which you talked about earlier. And then there's the kind of the gamification elephant that they use. They gamify things. So you could make a an argument that I've heard people say that they game their diabetes, and they do well because of it, because they take it as like, Oh, I'm trying to keep like, you know, it's, I don't know it's like, Pac Man, like I'm trying to keep the lady inside of the thing without the ghost catching her. Like, I'm trying to keep my numbers here and there. Some people report that that's a really great way for them, not for everybody. And also, you get a lot of emotions out of this too. So it occurs to me that, like, there are a number of reasons why that could help you do well, but there's even more reasons why it could hurt you. But at the same time, we're right back to the idea of like, you can't just put it down. It's not, it's not a game. It's it's life and it's health. But there's a bunch of ways that you could be being impacted by it and not realize it. And. Therefore keep you in that app longer than you need to be, which is why I very just simply tell people you set alarms and you do not look at that app unless those alarms are beeping. Just do not just, you gotta just, you gotta trust something. You gotta trust that if I'm in the range that I set, I don't need to look. That's my opinion. That's what worked best for me, yes,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 25:20
if that doesn't work for you, that's okay. And if you're noticing that whatever you're doing doesn't feel sustainable, that's you know, then to kind of pause and say, Okay, what is why can't I trust the alarms? Why can't I sleep? If the fear. And I get it. I really do that the fear you don't want your child to have a low or sustained highs, and then looking at where is that fear coming from? And again, I know, I think I've said this every episode now, but that it does often feel like a luxury, something that takes time and energy to pause, like, what? What is driving my fear? I don't have time to think about that. I'm just surviving. I'm just trying to keep my child alive. And so I think I want to acknowledge that too, that this, hopefully just even by listening again to this, to this particular episode, that you're able to spend a few minutes saying, like, wait, you know why? Why is that so hard? Beyond the obvious of wanting to keep my child alive,

Scott Benner 26:21
right? Well, I'll talk to about the again, about the ranges, because I think this is important. At some point in the in the podcast, you'll hear me say that it occurred to me while I was still learning all this, it occurred to me one day that Arden's top number was set at 200 on our CGM, and that we were very good at keeping her blood sugar under 200 and then I thought, I wonder if this is an expectation game. So I pushed her blood sugar to 180 and then I realized we were awfully good at keeping our blood sugar under weight 80. And I was like, oh, so I kept pushing it down right. What you don't realize in that story is that along the way, I learned other things that were helping us keep her at 181 6140, like on and on and on, and it's a lot about settings and timing and the other stuff we talk about in the podcast about how to use insulin. But as I was learning to use insulin and tightening the range up, I was getting what I was expecting more often. It just occurred to me while you were talking, I don't know what Arden's blood sugar is. I don't think I've looked at it today, so I wasn't certain. I opened up my phone and her blood sugar is 88 but that freedom of like, the settings are good. We know how to use the insulin most of the time. This is going to be okay. Like, the way to get to that is by understanding how insulin works. Is, again, my opinion, like, like, and so if there's a place to put your effort to me, it's, it's learning what you talked about, like your body. It's, you know, like, what it needs, like, what happens, like, how do I get ahead of this knowing simple things about insulin? I know this isn't like an insulin, like, you know, series, but the one thing that I think most people miss out on in the beginning is that what's happening now is about what you did before. And I don't think people think people think about it that way, usually, like, you mentioned it earlier, like, if I get low overnight, it could be because I had a heavy dinner some six hours previous to that, you know. And I don't think that in the beginning it occurs to you. Like, I think you just look at and you go, it's three in the morning. Why did I get low in three in the morning? And you start making changes to your basal and messing up your basal and, like, everything else, right? So that's the stuff. It's where I just think, go listen to the Pro Tip series. Learn how to use your insulin, and then see if a lot of these things don't get not alleviated over time. It's my expectation for you. It's why I made the Pro Tip series. Actually, I can't believe Martin blood sugar is 88 I'm like, super happy. It's like, she's in college. She just ate something terrible, I'm assuming a while ago, because I see a Bolus, like I see a Bolus about about 45 minutes ago, and she did a great job with it, you know. Anyway, I'm sorry,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 28:52
no, that's good, I mean. And it is true, like there a lot of it is this education piece, and when you are able and ready to access and apply that is also part of your journey. Yeah,

Scott Benner 29:07
you have a note here too. I don't want to miss about setting a timer.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 29:10
Like, yeah. So, so the timer, yeah, we talked about like setting the timer in terms of during the day. The topic is, you know the nighttime sleep disturbances and the fear of your child going low or having long term high, and that if you're watching the numbers all day long, it's hard to tell your brain to turn it off when you're going to bed, and so to practice giving yourself that break during the day. So setting a timer like what you were just saying with the alarms. Don't look at the number at the CGM or test your child's blood sugar for five minutes. It's very

Scott Benner 29:47
worth like, highlighting like, I'll set a timer, and I will not think about this until the timer goes off again. You can teach yourself to like, I know it works, because before all this technology, I used to think I. To check Arden in an hour. And, believe it, I seriously, believe it or not, eventually my brain knew an hour, yeah, like, I would just be like, Oh, I'm gonna test her now. And then my alarm would go off. My taught my brain how long an hour was without looking at a clock. And so you can teach yourself to, you know, to step back a little bit too. I think, I think that's like, a really valuable idea to give yourself some a shot at separation from the whole thing,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 30:25
yes, and then hopefully that gives you feedback as to what's going on, to then apply that at night also, right? So what we're trying to do is to want to help you have more sleep at night, ultimately. But it is a hard it's a hard process to get there, and it is normal to have that right, to have those sleep disturbances, but we hope that eventually to get to a place where you can trust what's in place, so that you can take care of yourself and get some sleep.

Scott Benner 30:58
Yeah, because it's it is very hard to see what a lack of sleep is doing to you until it's too late and you're having those fights and those problems that you were talking about. And sleep is just not a thing. You can't bank it like, you know, I mean, like, I can't just sleep 20 hours today and be okay tomorrow. You need to sleep every day. And I know that's the thing. I just, everyone must know, but it's tough. Like, it just, it really is. It's the thing that's come the closest to killing me from diabetes so far. Like, seriously, like, I like, vibrating, heart pounding, like I'm so tired, but I can't go to sleep. Like, it just, it was, and it would, sometimes it goes on for days when you don't know what you're doing, yes, oh, it's hard. It's the worst. And I was lucky enough to be a stay at home, dad, like some of you poor bastards are getting up in the morning and dragging your ass to work, you know, like on no sleep. And then listen, we had a parenting thing the other day here, and I said to my wife at the end of the day, you know, lucky we are that we even work out of our house. I was like, this took a lot of effort and time and focus that I think if we were just leaving the house and going to work, we would not have been able to accomplish this like, you know. And just imagine being, you know, having that implication and being exhausted, on top of all the other things, did we get through? There's a little bit left here. Good. Well,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 32:12
we, yeah, I think we got, we got through everything. I think they just, I wanted to end with a little exercise, just because these first three well, they're all They're all challenging and heavy, because what you're doing as a caregiver is challenging. But just wanted to end with a self compassion exercise, because a lot of these things that we've talked about, if shame or guilt or fear is driving some of these behaviors to offer some self compassion and kindness to yourself. And I can't remember if we've already gone through this before, but if you're able to either right now or maybe later, pausing and taking some deep breaths and either placing your hand over your heart and feeling your heart beat, or placing your hand over the other hand, and you can either just hold it or or tap it or kind of rub it as if you were kind of crossing your child's hand, but you're doing this to yourself and connecting with your body in that way, with either your hand over your heart or Your one hand over the other and having offering a positive kind of affirmation to yourself that I you know, I am good enough. I am I'm doing the best I can. I am taking this one day at a time. I am on a journey, and I am valuable. Whatever else is coming up for you. I know this might feel odd doing this right now, but if you are able to integrate it can take you can do it for 30 seconds or a minute throughout the day, of just pausing, connecting with your body and connecting with your mind and giving yourself some positive affirmation, because you all are doing an incredible job. I hope

Scott Benner 34:02
you're happy. Erica, now there's a bunch of people crying in their cars and while they're doing their dishes so but no, that's fantastic. I I'll try that for sure. Thank you. I appreciate it.

The conversation you just enjoyed was sponsored by Omnipod five. You want to get an Omnipod five? You can you want to make me happy? Do it with my link. Omnipod.com/juice box. A huge thank you to one of today's sponsors. AG, one drink. AG, one.com/juice box. You can start your day the same way I do with a delicious drink of ag one. Are you starting to see patterns, but you can't quite make sense of them? You're like, Oh, if I Bolus here, this happens, but I don't know what to do. Should I put in a little less, a little more? If you're starting to have those thoughts, you're starting to think this isn't going the way the doctor says. It would I think I see something here, but I can't be sure. Once you're having those thoughts, you're ready for the diabetes Pro Tip series from the Juicebox podcast. It begins at Episode 1000 you can also find it at Juicebox podcast.com up in the menu, and you can find a list in the private Facebook group. Just check right under the featured tab at the top, it'll show you lists of a ton of stuff, including the Pro Tip series, which runs from episode 1000 to 1025 when or if you need something that is represented by one of the sponsors. It would help the podcast immensely if you would use my links to look into it or to make a purchase. Those links are available in the show notes of the podcast or audio player you're listening in right now and at Juicebox podcast.com it's a simple and easy way to support the podcast. If you're not already subscribed or following in your favorite audio app, please take the time now to do that. It really helps the show and get those automatic downloads set up so you never miss an episode. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox podcast. The episode you just heard was professionally edited by wrong way recording, wrong way recording.com, you.

#1362 Rollin’ with Elizabeth

November 19, 2024Scott Benner

18 year old Elizabeth shares her story.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Scott Benner 0:00
Welcome back, friends to another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.

Today, I'll be speaking with Elizabeth, who is 18 years old. She's an athlete into martial arts and judo. She's had type one diabetes for five years. This is her story. Nothing you hear on the Juicebox podcast should be considered advice medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. If you're looking for community around type one diabetes, check out the Juicebox podcast, private Facebook group. Juicebox podcast, type one diabetes. But everybody is welcome type one, type two, gestational loved ones. It doesn't matter to me if you're impacted by diabetes and you're looking for support, comfort or community, check out Juicebox podcast, type one diabetes on Facebook. Are you an adult living with type one or the caregiver of someone who is and a US resident? If you are, I'd love it if you would go to T 1d exchange.org/juicebox and take the survey. When you complete that survey, your answers are used to move type one diabetes research of all kinds. So if you'd like to help with type one research, but don't have time to go to a doctor or an investigation and you want to do something right there from your sofa. This is the way today's episode of The Juicebox podcast is sponsored by the ever since 365 the one year where CGM that's one insertion a year. That's it. And here's a little bonus for you. How about there's no limit on how many friends and family you can share your data with with the ever since now app no limits. Ever since us med is sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox podcast, and we've been getting our diabetes supplies from us med for years. You can as well us med.com/juice, box, or call 888-721-1514, use the link or the number get your free benefits. Check and get started today with us. Med, this show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries, G VO, hypo, pen. Find out more at gvoke, glucagon.com, forward slash Juicebox.

Elizabeth 2:26
Hi, I'm Elizabeth. I am a type one diabetic athlete, and I do judo, which is a martial arts and today I'm on the Juicebox podcast.

Scott Benner 2:36
And a second ago, Elizabeth introduced herself, and I didn't have her track recording, so now it's recording. We're all good. Here's what I learned in the 35 seconds before I realized I wasn't recording your voice. You're 17, you're almost 18. You'll be 18 on July 19, which is just a few days after my 53rd birthday. We're both cancers, but you don't find yourself to be particularly emotional like I do? Yeah. Do you think it's possible that none of that means anything, whether you're like a Pisces or a cancer or something like that?

Elizabeth 3:09
Personally, I think that it has nothing to do with you. You are you, and you be strong as you.

Scott Benner 3:15
I agree. What makes you come on the podcast? What do you want? What made you reach out from previous

Elizabeth 3:22
experiences I haven't really had the chance to meet any other type one diabetes in the martial arts community, and those that I have met, they do not compete to the level that I do. Hold on a second you were hoping

Scott Benner 3:35
what, Elizabeth, you sound like, you might be a little ass kicker. Are you out there rolling with the big boys. What's going on?

Elizabeth 3:41
Well, I would hope so. I actually I compete interprovincially and internationally on Team Alberta. So Oh, my God. Oh,

Scott Benner 3:50
you're Canadian.

Elizabeth 3:51
I am, yeah, oh, I

Scott Benner 3:53
didn't know. I thought you sounded extra polite, but I didn't know. Hold on, a second. How long have you had type one diabetes?

Elizabeth 4:00
I have had type one diabetes for five years this November.

Scott Benner 4:04
Oh, okay, no kidding, so you were how old when you were diagnosed?

Elizabeth 4:10
I was about 11 or 1211. Or

Scott Benner 4:13
12, okay, 11 or 12 in Canada. Always been Canadian. They didn't. You didn't move there or anything like that. Yep, born and raised. So when you were diagnosed that they put you on regular and mph,

Elizabeth 4:24
regular and mph. I'm not quite familiar with the terms. Then you

Scott Benner 4:28
didn't. Then it wasn't you. Some of the provinces use an older form of insulin when people are diagnosed. But you you, what did you start with?

Elizabeth 4:37
I started with basal. Glory and humility, actually. Okay, so

Scott Benner 4:40
you started with more modern Did you know that province? And should I say province or province? Does it matter to you? I don't want to insult you either. Art is fine. Okay, province. There they do it differently from from one to the other. Oh, that's cool. Interesting. So you're in. Let's see either I gotta test myself on this Toronto. Toe would do more modern insulin. So would trying to think of the different provinces. Never mind. I'll never figure it out. Do you live? Do you live where the abominable snow monster lives? Or are you near a building?

Elizabeth 5:13
Well, I mean, I'm in a building, but it gets pretty cold here.

Scott Benner 5:18
Is it an igloo that you're in, be honest, not

Elizabeth 5:21
quite, no, it's, it's a pretty nice house, I'll be honest.

Scott Benner 5:25
I've had, I've had some deep conversations with other Canadians. One was a little girl recently, she tried to tell me that you even have cars in Canada, which I thought was crazy, because obviously you live on a frozen hellscape. There's just polar bears and penguins and everything. But she said, No. She said, like, there's like, towns and sidewalks and everything. So I chose the believer.

Elizabeth 5:46
Are you saying, As shocking as it sounds, that is true, we do have cars.

Scott Benner 5:49
You're representing the same ideas. Okay, that's okay. When did you start? By the way, did you like when I said rolling? Like I knew a little bit about judo? Yes, yeah. It's pretty impressive, I imagine for you first, let me talk to you a little bit about your diagnosis. I want to just kind of get that story for you. So do you remember much about it?

Elizabeth 6:07
I do actually, I was in my junior high years, and I had been sick for a little while. Not quite sure why. I was like, oh, probably just a common cold, like, whatever. But then it didn't really start getting better after about three, four days, I ended up going to get checked out at the hospital nearby, and I ended up admitted that night, and they were like, well, yep, you have type one diabetes. And like, this is something you'll have for life. And I definitely remember being pretty scared because I didn't really know what was going on and what was happening, but I was lucky enough that I had both my parents there to support me. Very nice.

Scott Benner 6:46
Any other family members, brothers, sisters,

Elizabeth 6:48
I do actually, I have three younger brothers, none of which have diabetes, which they're pretty lucky. The

Scott Benner 6:55
word bothers wrong. But when you were younger, did it? Did it make you upset that you were the only one that had it,

Elizabeth 7:01
honestly, I don't think it did. I think the biggest part for me was that, honestly, I was actually really, really scared of needles. Yeah, so I was just a little bit jealous. Were you

Scott Benner 7:10
able to get past that, or do you still have an

Elizabeth 7:14
aversion? I think I'm okay. Now, I look at a needle and it's like, well, this is part of my everyday life. So I think I'm okay. Now, cool.

Scott Benner 7:22
How about other autoimmune stuff for you? Do you have celiac or thyroid stuff, or anything like that?

Elizabeth 7:27
I do. Actually, I am a celiac. Oh, but, but

Scott Benner 7:31
that's probably not a problem in Canada, because you just drink ice water all day, right?

Elizabeth 7:37
As much as I wish that was true, I definitely missed the taste of bread.

Scott Benner 7:41
Tell everybody how to prepare whale fat as soap.

Go ahead. I have no idea. Okay, fine.

So you do. When were you diagnosed with celiac? Oh, I

Elizabeth 7:52
think I was nine before the type one. It was before the type one.

Scott Benner 7:57
You were making a little pile of autoimmune issues, and nobody else in the family with that, even I

Elizabeth 8:03
have a distant cousin who's like, three times removed, who has celiac, but I think that's it. Jeez.

Scott Benner 8:09
Lucky you. Well, Elizabeth, way to just gather all the stuff up for yourself and not share it with anybody else. How about your parents? Did they have anything going on,

Unknown Speaker 8:21
like medical stuff,

Scott Benner 8:21
no, how about that? So did you have, do you remember a virus before you were diagnosed, or anything like that? Yes,

Elizabeth 8:28
actually, I do remember this. So about a week and, yeah, just about a week before I was diagnosed with diabetes, I got a really viral, like disease or sickness. It was called 10 Foot Mouth Coxsackie

Scott Benner 8:41
virus. Yes, that's what my daughter had before she was diagnosed. Yep, yeah. Now you know somebody else who that happened to. So, yeah, we're going to expand your little universe, uh, pretty, pretty quickly with, uh, with this conversation Coxsackie. No kidding, yeah. Arden had it when she was two, and it just didn't go away, and then next thing he knew, she had diabetes. Sucks. Sorry. Well, what a bummer. How do you find the podcast like? How does a 17 year old listen to a podcast made by a 52 year old guy? If you take insulin or so final ureas, you are at risk for your blood sugar going too low, you need a safety net when it matters most, be ready with G vo hypo pen. My daughter carries G vo hypo pen everywhere she goes, because it's a ready to use rescue pen for treating very low blood sugar in people with diabetes ages two and above that. I trust low blood sugar. Emergencies can happen unexpectedly and they demand quick action. Luckily, jivo kypo pen can be administered in two simple steps, even by yourself in certain situations. Show those around you where you store G, vo khypo pen and how to use it. They need to know how to use G. Pen before an emergency situation happens. Learn more about why GEVO kypo Pen is in Arden's diabetes toolkit at gvoke, glucagon.com/juicebox, gvoke shouldn't be used if you have a tumor in the gland on the top of your kidneys called a pheochromocytoma, or if you have a tumor in your pancreas called an insulin OMA visit, gevok, glucagon.com/risk, for safety information. I don't know how you guys order your diabetes supplies, like CGM pumps and testing equipment, but at our house, we use us Med, and I'm gonna walk you through the entire process right now. I'm looking at the email from us Med, it says it's time to refill your prescription, dear Arden, please click the button below to place your next order. Then you click the button that was it. Two days later, I got this email, thank you for your order from us. Med, we wanted to let you know that your order and it gives you an order number was shipped via UPS ground. You can track your package at any time using the link below, and then there was a link, and then it showed up at our house. Now I'm going to walk you through the entire chain of events. On the 29th which was the Saturday I clicked on the email on that Monday, the first I got an email that said the order had been sent four days later on the fifth the package arrived. If you can do it easier than that, you go get it. But if you can't us, med.com/juice, box, or call 888-721-1514, get started today with us. Med, get your diabetes supplies the same way we do.

Elizabeth 11:42
So actually, it was my mom who found the podcast while she was doing a little bit of research internationally for other athletes like myself who compete like at high levels and have diabetes, and she recommended the podcast to me. And so I started listening, and I was like, this seems kind of cool, and I kind of applied, or I kind of messaged you on a whim. I was like, well, maybe he'll say something, maybe not. And here I

Scott Benner 12:04
am. Here you are. Well, cool. So the podcast has been valuable for you. Very, very excellent. I want to figure out what you learned and how you apply it. First, tell me, where are you competing you you mentioned, like, how you what's the is it like a, I don't even know what to say, judo, like league or I don't understand,

Elizabeth 12:24
so, yeah, so I'm part of something called Team Alberta. So each of the provinces has its own, like, judo team that represents the province. And to be part of this team, you have to travel interprovincially. So I think I'm visited pretty much each of the provinces two or three times to even in the past two years. Okay, and I go and I compete, and it's like, the more medals you win, the higher you're standing. And it's like, the better chance you have of then competing internationally. So I was actually given the chance this past February to go to Denmark and compete for Team Alberta as well.

Scott Benner 12:58
You beat up people from Denmark. I did

Elizabeth 13:01
a little bit of beating up and then got beat up as well.

Scott Benner 13:05
Tell me how you get involved in judo. Judo in

Elizabeth 13:07
Canada specifically is a bit of a smaller community, just because it's not as widely spread as something like hockey or lacrosse. But there are a lot of local communities that have their own Judo clubs, whether they be fairly small or the same size as my club. My club is the biggest in the city that I'm from. All you have to do is show up to a class. There's nothing more to it. Everyone is there is very friendly. They're very welcoming, and they're there to teach you how to fall, how to participate in the sport, and simply how to enjoy it and have fun. How old were you when you started? I think I was about five, five or six. Really,

Scott Benner 13:44
did one of your parents do it, or is it something you showed an interest in? They took you to it.

Elizabeth 13:49
So my mom actually got remarried a couple years ago, and my stepdad was the one who was doing judo when we first met him, and he was like, you guys, should come try this awesome sport. And I was actually a dancer at the time, and I was like, beating people up. That sounds awesome. Finally, so I went, and I kind of just kept going, no

Scott Benner 14:09
kidding. Oh, that's very cool. What would you say about judo that other people wouldn't know like because you hear people who do it, they're very passionate about it, and I hear them talk about community and mental toughness and and learning moves and being able to feel how things are happening so you can respond to them. But like, what? What about that is attractive to you? Yeah, definitely,

Elizabeth 14:32
I definitely agree with all those things me. Personally, I find that tudo has given me a very strong sense of morals, and it has really taught me things like resilience and determination, and it has given me a lot of grit. It also gave me the chance to connect with people all over the world, and its community, as you said, is very vibrant and it's very welcoming. And even though you might go and you might compete against some of these people that you know on the mats when. You come off, you shake their hand, and you at the end of the day, it's just you did a good job. We had a good fight like, Thank you for coming. Thank you for showing up.

Scott Benner 15:07
What's the goal of a of a is it a match? Is that what it's called? Yes, okay, what's the goal of a match? Are you trying to score points? Are you trying to submit people? What is it you're trying to accomplish?

Elizabeth 15:20
Yeah, so it's, it's a point system, so you can score half points and you can score full points. So a half point is called a wazari, and a full point is called an EPON. And for the ages 1414, and up, once you score a full point, the match is actually over. But you can score that point in multiple different ways. You have your groundwork techniques, which you can do chokes, arm bars, or you can hold a person down for 20 seconds, and then in your standing you can throw this person, and if they land completely on their back, then that is the full point.

Scott Benner 15:54
How scared are you that you're going to dislocate your knee or elbow or something like that?

Elizabeth 15:59
I mean, I have had some experience with injuries in the past. Actually broke my collar bone and my foot on a couple different occasions, but I think that even though I was scared to get back on the mats after that injury, after any of the injuries that I've sustained, I think that it's the most important thing was that I kept going back and I kept persevering. Because even though I was scared, getting back on the mat renewed my self confidence, and it made me stronger in the end as well.

Scott Benner 16:30
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Elizabeth 18:07
Well, as a girl, just kind of, in this world, it's, it's nice to always have those kind of self defense skills, right? So even just that, and like, knowing that I know how to defend myself if I get into a tricky situation is really valuable to myself. And then for the self confidence part about coming back after an injury, I can say for sure, there is no better feeling than overcoming that mental block where you think you can't because of an injury, you sustain in the path, and you go above and beyond, and you achieve even more than what you wanted to originally. I think that is such an important part of your love for your sport, and it's important that you continue with it and go with it throughout your life.

Scott Benner 18:50
Yeah, yeah. You can tap out of a match anytime, right? You could just tell the referee, like I'm done. Is that right? I

Elizabeth 18:55
mean, yes, but I wouldn't suggest it, because your match only usually lasts about four minutes, so there's really no point in tapping out honestly. Okay, you want to you want to persevere. You want to push through. You want to do as much as you can in the time that you're given and get the best results you can Okay,

Scott Benner 19:14
and is it more about physical strength or using your opponents like motion against them. Like I hear people talk about that, I don't think I understand that completely.

Elizabeth 19:25
I think that's based on the person you are as a fighter and the person you're fighting. So in my personal category, I'm actually on the smaller side in terms of height. I'm only about 5556, and most of the girls I fight are about 510, 511, some even six feet. So a lot of these times, I can't simply muscle my way through them, because they just have longer arms, longer legs. They can reach their techniques better. So I have to use a little bit of a combination of that strength to get them moving, but then also the speed and technique that I've been developing throughout my. Charge you to life.

Scott Benner 20:00
Talk about the technique is it? Is it as specific as I feel pressure here, so I reach for this hold. Like, it's a lot of holds, right? Like, like, how would you explain what you're doing to somebody who has no idea about it? Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah.

Elizabeth 20:18
So the way that we like to describe how you get someone moving is, we call it action reaction. So if I'm going to do something, so if I'm going to push you backwards, you're going to react and try and react forwards. So as a judoka, we tend to use that action reaction to our own advantage. So if I'm going to, if I want to throw this person forwards, I'm going to get them moving backwards so that their reaction is going to come forwards, and that'll facilitate the throw for me,

Scott Benner 20:45
okay? Then you take their motion, their their forward motion, and you throw them with it. Yeah, got it, okay, and then, and a lot of it's about that, right? Like, technique, like responding properly, and then for you, being fast. Like, is that the idea that you so you're quicker, but some of those longer girls, maybe like, are structurally more I don't know what the word is capable. Is that, right?

Elizabeth 21:11
Yeah, yeah, I would say that I definitely rely a lot on the speed and the the mechanics of the technique that I like, which is called a drop technique. So it's actually one where I drop to my knees and then I continue to roll, which loads the person onto my back and turns them onto their own back.

Scott Benner 21:28
Is this an Olympic sport?

Elizabeth 21:32
It is actually,

Scott Benner 21:33
do you have eyes on that? Or is that not the level you're at? For

Elizabeth 21:37
me, I have not been training to the level where I would go to the Olympics. However, we did just send multiple Canadian athletes, including a girl in the under 57 category, to the Olympics. Oh, cool. From your group. No, not from our group, but she is a Canadian athlete who has trained out of Alberta. Am

Scott Benner 21:55
I using the word Dojo incorrectly? If I say, Are you involved in that?

Elizabeth 21:59
No, Dojo is just the name of the space that we use for our training. For our club, actually, we don't have our own facility currently, okay, although we are getting one for the next season, which, yeah, yes, oh, cool. But we actually work out of a local YMCA. So for Judo, you have the Tommy mats. So they're the mats that you do your the sport on. So every class we have Monday, Wednesday, and we have Saturday, we come and we lay down our mats, and then we teach our younger kids classes, which I also help participate in, and then I also do my own classes, which are the late class in the evening, and then we have to put all of our tatami mats away afterwards. Elizabeth, how

Scott Benner 22:37
do you stop yourself from getting what they call cauliflower ear?

Elizabeth 22:40
So I have yet to have an experience with cauliflower ear. Knock on wood. I'm very lucky for that, but I have had a couple of friends in my sport who have had cauliflower ear. The solution to it is simply getting it drained repeatedly. And while it's a very painful process, or so I hear, it prevents your ear from getting that massive swelling around it,

Scott Benner 23:01
wow, that's just from the rubbing and the grinding on the ear. Is that, right? Is that also, like bacteria from the mat? Or no, yeah, is it, I don't know. Isn't that funny? That's, that's what I want to know about. How does that happen? Because it's, it's frightening when people have it. You know what? I mean? Like, visually, you're like, wow, that's feels crazy, but and I just, I'm thinking of you like you just, you're so young, you know what I mean? And I know you don't think of yourself that way, but I'm like, Oh, my God, I don't want to have a big thing on her ear. Do you roll with men and women, or do women stay with women? Men, with men.

Elizabeth 23:36
So in competition, it is just male, just female. You're competing against a girl if you're a girl, and you're competing against a guy if you're a guy. But in the club, it is beneficial to work with everyone on your competitive team, and it helps you, and it helps them, and it creates better bonds between you and your teammates. So I tend to roll with pretty much anyone on the meds, even the guys who are a lot bigger or the guys who are a lot smaller, just everyone is kind of included. But it is important that me, as an athlete and as someone who has technique and skill, but also some strengths that I modify the way that I fight different types of people. So if I'm fighting a younger kid or someone who's a little bit smaller than me, I'm not just going to out muscle them, out strength them. I'm going to use a little bit more technique try and work with something I don't usually do, but if I'm fighting someone who's bigger and a lot better than me, fingers crossed that they're toning down their strength a little bit, and I'll be working on my specific techniques for someone who is bigger, who is taller than me. Gotcha,

Scott Benner 24:37
do you see Judo as a strictly athletic endeavor, or do you think of it as therapeutic as well?

Elizabeth 24:44
I would say, I would definitely say both. There are some days where I'm like, oh my goodness, I gotta go to judo. But every single time that I get on those mats and when I come off afterwards, I feel like a different person. I could be having the worst day in the world if I go to a judo class I come off. Mats, I'm smiling, I'm happy, I'm joking with my friends. It's such a way to get out all of those feelings that you might not be able to express otherwise. And it's it's just so much fun, like it's hard not to be happy. Once you come off the mats after a good day of like a hard sweat and good training,

Scott Benner 25:17
you have a feeling for what it is that the that the activity releases, or what it's, what it's giving you that you didn't have in your day? Is it just the aggression thing,

Elizabeth 25:26
maybe a little bit. But I find just just getting on the mats and, like, not having to, like, talk to someone while I'm just doing a little sparring match, is just kind of the best therapy, because I'm there, I'm in the zone. It's like, okay, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do this, and I'm gonna throw. And then when it works out, it's like, yes, like, I got this. We're doing this. And it's so therapeutic,

Scott Benner 25:50
yeah, so you feel accomplished, too, if you can, like, hold, grip, hold, throw, and you're like, Wow, I did it. Like, I like, I matched their emotion. I I got my technique ahead of theirs, and I kind of won this moment. Definitely, definitely feels okay. That's really interesting. Okay. Now, what about with diabetes? Like, when you first started judo, you didn't have it. Did you notice changes? Like, is it more anaerobic or aerobic of an exercise? Because it feels like it's both. It

Elizabeth 26:18
definitely is both. I found with diabetes, I had to actually tone back quite a bit on the like, the amount of utero that I was doing, simply because I wasn't quite sure how my own body worked in coordination with it. So I had to figure out, like, Okay, how do I do this? How do I manage my diabetes when I don't have insulin running, or this or that?

Scott Benner 26:40
So it took you months, years to figure out how to manage insulin with judo. Or do you still struggle with it? Or is it a thing you understand now?

Elizabeth 26:49
I would say that I understand it pretty well right now, and I'm fairly lucky. I have parents who work in the medical field, so they're really, really helpful, especially in competition. I feel like I have a good handle on what I need to do is sometimes, sometimes it's a little bit hard to do it, or it's like, oh no. There's a moment where, like, I didn't give a Bolus or this, and it's like, I'm still working at perfecting it, but I understand my body a lot better.

Scott Benner 27:15
Yeah, your parents are in the medical field. Yeah. Is it like, can you be in specific, but tell me about like, kind of what they

Elizabeth 27:23
do? Uh, yeah. So my my stepdad, he works, is as a trauma doctor at the hospital here, and then my mom is, she works in orthopedics, so it's like casting and like fixing bones and all that cool stuff.

Scott Benner 27:36
Oh, wow. Oh, is that how they met? Did they meet at the hospital? I

Elizabeth 27:40
think they met at a work related party, but I'm not entirely sure. I'd have to brush up on that.

Scott Benner 27:47
Don't worry. It's okay. Do you meet people to date at judo? Like, new people? I mean, like, you know, have you ever, like, met somebody you've been interested in, like, romantically at judo? Or do those things not mix? I

Elizabeth 28:00
know people who have, but I try to avoid any kind of romantic feelings with anyone on my club. I definitely picture them more as, like, my brothers and my sisters and like those people that, like, I'm really, really close with and I have, like, share a really strong bond of friendship and, like, almost like sibling rivalry with, yeah, I gotcha, but I don't think I could ever see myself romantically interested in anyone at my club specifically interesting.

Scott Benner 28:25
Can I ask, why is it just because you're so close to them, or is it because they're involved in judo? I

Elizabeth 28:30
would say a combination of the two. I'm really close with them, so I don't think I could see myself in a romantic relationship with any of them as well as we're all focused on doing better and improving in judo. Plus a lot of them have significant others outside of judo, so I just tend to stay away from it. I was just

Scott Benner 28:45
wondering if it's a thing you didn't want to mix because of the focus of judo and, like, if you now you're suddenly romantic with somebody, if that maybe ruins what that thing is like, it's because it seems like it's such a specific thing, I don't know. Like, I was just wondering, okay, you wear a pump, or do you inject?

Elizabeth 29:03
So I have a T slim. I am a pump certified, yay,

Scott Benner 29:08
using control. IQ, yes, I do with Dexcom. G6 Yeah. G6 okay. How long have you been wearing that?

Elizabeth 29:16
So I've had the Dexcom, I want to say, like, almost three years now, and the pump just under that, so, like two ish, so

Scott Benner 29:26
you take it off, obviously, to compete. Yes, yeah.

Elizabeth 29:31
So I just for the Tesla. I'm lucky. It's just you can detach it from the pump site, but my CGM stays in. So I actually use something called a co band, or like, vet wrap, and it's basically, it's almost like a tensor bandage that I just wrap around wherever my CGM and my pump side are, and it helps us so they don't get ripped out while I'm competing. Kind

Scott Benner 29:51
of makes it feel like it's part of you, so it can't get pulled on. Yeah, and then do you so you're disconnecting. So do you have the ball? Let's be for you disconnect. I'm trying to decide if the anaerobic, anaerobic things cancel each other out, or if you get high from muscleing or low from movement while you're while you're doing this.

Elizabeth 30:14
So that's actually the fun part. It can go in any which way. There's were

Scott Benner 30:19
you saying fun sarcastically. Elizabeth, yes, okay, yes, very much. All right,

Elizabeth 30:26
but I actually so for competitions, we do actually bullish thing between my matches. So on a good day, I'll have between like four and six matches maybe. So there can be between like five to 10 minutes, or like, three hours between those matches. It kind of depends on the bracket and what happens in the matches, but I always I'm giving small, like units between like one and three every hour or so to keep myself level. But I'm also pairing that with drinking, like my Powerade and having, like, some protein while I'm waiting for my fights, that'll that helps me sustain longer, but the insulin keeps me from going too high.

Scott Benner 31:11
Okay, I see, so see, it's a pretty involved thing for you. So how long does like it the match you said maybe is like four minutes, but then they're sitting around, then you roll again. Or do you roll once a day? Or how does that work?

Elizabeth 31:24
So that depends on how many people you have in your category. For me, I don't usually have more than, like six, so I'll have usually, like five fights in a

Scott Benner 31:33
day. Okay, spread out over how much time I'm sorry, five fights over, that depends.

Elizabeth 31:37
So if I win and I win and I win and I continue to just win, the matches will be fairly close together, but if I win and then I lose one, then I drop down to the rep a charge, which is the bronze medal bracket, and then I have to wait quite a while before those matches actually start. So it can be between like an hour, or it can be between like three hours. You

Scott Benner 31:59
have, like, a little kitchen worth of supplies with you when you go every time. Oh, yeah.

Elizabeth 32:04
Sometimes. I also have younger siblings, right? So we have lots of snacks and stuff for them. Oh, they

Scott Benner 32:09
also are into judo. Yep, my whole family is actually, oh, really, no kidding. You go over there, like, like, The Incredibles, but for Judo, yeah, yeah, I have a question that I feel like you're going to answer in an unsatisfying way, but why are you so mature and smart? Well,

Elizabeth 32:27
I mean, I try to be I'm also the oldest of four kids, so I help look after them as much as I can, and then, like diabetes, right? So I have to be a little bit more mature and able to be able to handle that by myself.

Scott Benner 32:42
So yeah, but that's not, that's not a real answer. Hold on a second. Like, are your are your parents? Like, are they, like, super special, calm people. Were you raised really? Well? Are you making up for something like, what's like? You're uncommonly together for your age. Do you know that about your skin? Well, you're very welcome. But do you know that about yourself?

Elizabeth 33:04
I mean, I've had some people tell me that I'm quite mature for my age. And I'm like, Oh, thank you. I tried always been like that. I definitely was not when I was young. I was I was a little rascal. I was a wild child, actually. So

Scott Benner 33:17
you just said rascal. I feel like we're 75 together. You're fantastic. You're like dating. It'll ruin judo. No. Hold on. You're really interesting to hear because so here, here begs the question, right? When you're diagnosed with type one, do your parents help you with it a lot, or do they just give it to you? Is it a mix.

Elizabeth 33:40
So in the beginning, they helped me a lot, specifically my mom. She she was like, right there. She was like, she held my hand through a lot of the things where I just didn't understand at the time. But over the past couple years, they've given me a lot more, like control with it, and now I primarily do most of the things, although I'm grateful because at competition, my parents are there to help me out when I'm like, running around like a headless chick, and I'm like, Where's where's my belt? Where's this? And my mom was like, take some insulin. And I'm like, it's, it's a really nice reminder when she's there.

Scott Benner 34:13
Nice. Okay, so it started off them, and it transferred to you slowly, and over the last couple of years it's been mostly you, but they still help.

Speaker 1 34:21
Yes, yeah, all right,

Scott Benner 34:24
it's not answering my question, though. I'm trying to figure out, why are you good in school? You get, like, really good grades.

Elizabeth 34:31
I mean, I'm not exceptional. I'm not like a 90s student, but I'm like a fair 80s average kind of person, okay,

Scott Benner 34:38
above average grades, not fantastic. I would say that's just average, but Okay, does it come to you easily, or do you have to work to get to where you're at with your grades? School

Elizabeth 34:50
is not my forte. Test taking is not where it's at. I definitely have to work hard and study lots like all the time to get the kind of grades that I want. I. Even then it's still, it's still really hard. What

Scott Benner 35:01
do you want to do after school? Like the are you going to go to what they call University?

Elizabeth 35:05
Yes, actually, I have been accepted to the University of Alberta in a psychology major. Oh, look

Scott Benner 35:11
at you. I was going to say, what do you want to go for? But there you've answered the question, something you've always been interested

Elizabeth 35:17
in, not originally, originally. I was like, I want to be a doctor, like my parents, like, I'm going to be a doctor. And then, kind of, as I kept growing up, I was like, I don't know what kind of doctor I want to be, maybe this kind, maybe this kind. And then I got diabetes, and I was like, I'm going to be an endocrinologist. Like, Heck, yeah, I am. And then slowly, for sure, I was like, hmm, Kinesiology is cool. Maybe physiotherapy. And then I was like, You know what? No psychology.

Scott Benner 35:43
You're just bouncing around. You don't, you don't, you know, I have to tell you, I just this summer, I've really come to think, like, just how ridiculous it is that we ask 17 year old kids to pick a thing that they're going to do for the rest of their life. It just doesn't, I mean, I understand why you got to get going. You know what I mean? Like, I'm with all that. It's just such an odd thing. Like, how are you supposed to know, you know what I mean,

Elizabeth 36:09
preaching to the choir, man, yeah.

Scott Benner 36:11
And also, you're somehow, like a little mix of a hippie and an old lady at the same time. How did that happen? You know what I'm saying, don't you?

Unknown Speaker 36:23
Yeah, yeah.

Scott Benner 36:25
Does it freak you out when a person who doesn't know you can talk to you for half an hour and start like thinking about who you are?

Elizabeth 36:32
No, no. I mean, I'm not a very like I mean, I would say I'm a little bit introverted when I used to meet most people, but I'm a fairly chatty kind of outgoing person in general. So it is what it is, yeah?

Scott Benner 36:44
But you, you have, like, a, I don't know your vibe is interesting. It's like, upbeat, but old soul, but not crunchy. Does that all make sense? Yeah? Yeah.

Elizabeth 36:57
I'll take the compliment. I'll take

Scott Benner 36:58
it. Listen. Whoever you are is a compliment, as far as I'm concerned, but it's just your mixture is interesting. That's all. What do you like to do, besides judo, so I'm big

Elizabeth 37:08
into, actually, just like physical activity in general. I love, like, mountain biking. I used to be a dancer, so I love dance, just being outside, pretty much just kind of my vibe. But I also do love art, um, I love drawing kind of, kind of anything like that. Okay,

Scott Benner 37:23
so solitary. You like more solitary endeavors.

Elizabeth 37:27
On occasion, I like doing these things, like, with people, like, I'll go and I'll bike with some friends or with my parents, or, like, we'll go on a bike ride with my dog, because I have a lovely little Australian Shepherd.

Scott Benner 37:39
It's interesting though, like, because I guess maybe a lot of stuff is like that. I was gonna say, like, you're doing group activities, but they're singularly focused. Once you're involved in them, you could kind of say that about judo too, honestly, that's what I'm saying. But I think everything's kind of like that. Though, if you stop and really think about it, like, how many things are you actually holding hands with somebody while you're doing? You know what? I mean?

Elizabeth 37:59
Sure true. Maybe, I

Scott Benner 38:00
think I might have just out thought myself in a circle, and then when I got to the end, I was like, oh, dummy, that's how that works. Do your siblings, your younger siblings, know anything about the diabetes?

Elizabeth 38:10
So I have three younger brothers, two of which are, like, fairly young. One of them just turns five this August. The other one is seven. Oh, so, oh, oh,

Scott Benner 38:20
that's right, your parents are, it's a second marriage for your mom, right? Yeah,

Elizabeth 38:24
yeah. Those are my half brothers, yeah. And then I have my other brother who actually lives with his biological father, and he just turned 16. He turned 15. You have

Scott Benner 38:34
a half brother that lives with his biological father, but that's also your biological father.

Elizabeth 38:38
Not quite. Hold on, my mom give birth to me and my brother? Yeah, and he is 15. He lives with our bio dad, okay, but I live with my mom and my step dad and my two half brothers. I

Scott Benner 38:49
got it, okay, okay. I thought there was, like, I misunderstood for a second. Don't worry about okay, so they're not totally they're they're younger, really, is the answer. What's the kids you live

Elizabeth 39:00
with? They're goofballs. And sometimes when I'm sitting there and I'm like, Guys, just like, leave me alone. Leave me alone, they'll be gone. They'll come over and be like, Lizzy, what are your blood sugars? You're being grumpy. I'm like, Guys, yeah, there's, there's silly little goofballs. It's

Scott Benner 39:15
nice. Wait till they get bigger, they'll be silly big goofballs. Oh, definitely. So okay, so after this university psychology, but you're gonna keep I mean, Judo stays in your life for

Elizabeth 39:28
sure. Yeah, definitely, definitely okay.

Scott Benner 39:31
Is it a thing that you recognize that one day, physically, you won't be able to do or do you think you just do it with a little less gusto as you get older so you can continue?

Elizabeth 39:40
I think anything is possible. My stepdad is over 40, and he still competes interprovincially and wins golds and competes internationally and wins medals. So I think I can go for as long as possible, do this

Scott Benner 39:54
every weekend, like every weekend, you get up on Saturday morning and go off to a to an event. So

Elizabeth 39:59
we. Of our trainings, they're weekly. We have three times a week, but our competition season, well, most of our competition season just actually finished after we had nationals, which was about two weeks ago. A little more than that, maybe three. But we probably have about a competition, maybe two a month. And we also have mandatory monthly trainings with the provincial coach.

Scott Benner 40:23
How does this translate into real life? Like, let's say you're, you're out walking, and a lumberjack that smells like maple syrup comes up behind you and tries to take your purse, right? Like, how do you how do you? Like, how do you fight him off with what you know from judo? So

Elizabeth 40:43
again, it's like Judo is the use of your own body mechanics and then manipulating the body mechanics of your opponent, right? So if he's going to come and he's going to reach for my purse, I'm simply just going to grab his wrist and I'm going to turn and throw him, because he's going to be going forwards towards me. So I'm just continuing his momentum, this lovely lumberjack momentum. Yeah, I'm barely doing anything. Honestly, I'm just influencing this momentum. Just a temp, okay,

Scott Benner 41:07
so he comes up to you. He's like, Oh, hey, I'm gonna take your purse a and buy beer. And then you're like, you wait for him to come at you, or you, oh, yeah, well, you would run first, right? Like, you'd be like, I could probably outrun this like, like, like, because he's got syrup on his hands, he'll probably slip and so like, like, but you would, but if you got stuck, you wouldn't attack, you'd wait for the attack. Is that correct? That

Elizabeth 41:30
depends really, if he's coming at me and his if he's coming at me first, and I'm like, well, he's coming at me, time to react to his acting. But if he's there and he's like, oh, like, I'm gonna take your purse, but he's just, like, standing there, and there's not really anything happened, I'm not gonna go for an outright fight. But again, if he, if he comes at me, like he's going to do something, I'm going to take the first move in terms of defending myself.

Scott Benner 41:54
And is this so all in is this also just so ingrained in who you are that even if they took you by surprise, you would react, like, reasonably appropriately.

Elizabeth 42:05
I mean, I would hope so, but like a competition. But

Scott Benner 42:09
what happens, like in your house, if somebody comes around the corner and they're like, boo, are you just like, you already have a hold of them and you're moving them? Do you know what I mean? Or like, how quickly does your body go to that like, that memory, that muscle memory.

Elizabeth 42:22
Have you ever heard the quote, fight or flight, that I'm a flightless bird?

Scott Benner 42:26
Okay, so you're right into it. That's kind of

Elizabeth 42:29
the quote that I try to live by.

Scott Benner 42:31
If you didn't have judo, what do you think you would do with all this energy? Because it feels to me like you have extra energy and that, like, expelling just some aggression and tactile or tactical, like, ideas, seems like it's really good for you. Like, where do you think it would go, though, without this?

Elizabeth 42:50
Honestly, I'm, I'm not too sure. I think Judo has really gave me a level head in terms of just, like, being like a good person. Because, like, I think with more free time, there would have been more chance for me to get into trouble, do things I'm not supposed to, you know, like, go drinking, go partying, which is why I appreciate you, though, because it, like, it kept that level head. It kept me focused on a goal. My goal was winning nationals, and it and I wanted, like, constant improvement. Do

Scott Benner 43:19
you think that that's who you are, though? Do you think like, if, if, somehow, if this man doesn't come into your life and say, Hey, you guys should try judo? Do you think you're out there just like drunk? Elizabeth,

Elizabeth 43:31
I'd like to say that. No, I don't think that's me, but I honestly have no idea where my life would have taken me without something as as moral compass, like as judo. Interesting? Are you religious? No, not really.

Scott Benner 43:46
Is this your religion?

Elizabeth 43:48
I would say Judo is my religion. I would say that, okay,

Scott Benner 43:52
I'm interested because I don't drink as an example. But I think if you I don't, I don't imagine, I can't imagine, what would move me in that direction, like even if my life got bad, I don't think that that's a direction I would go into, because I wonder if you're not giving yourself enough credit for who you are, is what I was wondering,

Elizabeth 44:12
potentially. But I think without my step dad being in my life as well, it would have changed me a lot as a person. Sure, I really look up to him, and I really aspire to be a person as awesome and cool and sophisticated as he is. Wow, so not even just Judo itself, but him not being in my life definitely would have made me a different person.

Scott Benner 44:32
So I don't want to I don't want to discount that. I just want to say that I think it would be okay to give yourself some like credit, like that. You wouldn't be like a person out there, like, just a ne'er do well, like, you know, skulking around in the shadows, breaking car windows and stuff like that. I just don't, doesn't sound to me like that's who you would be. What about him specifically? Are you so reverent about like, what is he? How does he appear to you? If you had to describe him to me? Would you say about him?

Elizabeth 45:00
Well, first and foremost, he is an amazing like judoka. He is incredible at the sport that he does. He holds, like, international titles and like several competitions, and it's like, Whoa. That is awesome. He is, like, a well established man who, like, works in the medical field, and he's good at his job, and he's just like a goofy, outgoing guy, but he also can be like stoic and like reserved, and he's just got so many different contrasts and different angles to him that are so unique and so interesting, and it makes him just a really awesome person as well. He really stepped up as a father figure in my life for a number of my elementary school kind of years. So I really, I really look up to him like that.

Scott Benner 45:45
Yeah, no, I imagine that's lovely. Your mom. She's just okay. I

Elizabeth 45:49
love my mom. I have I share such a special bond with my mom. She is my number one fan. She is my go to girl. She's not just my mom, she's also like my best friend. And it's like the best relationship I could have asked for. Wow,

Scott Benner 46:02
what's the worst thing you've ever thought in your head about another person?

Elizabeth 46:06
There was a girl I was competing against, and I I had won against her several a year before, but in the process, I had accidentally broke her collar bone with a throw, and when she came back the next year. She beat me at the same tournament, and then she slandered me all over social media. I was a little bit sour above that.

Scott Benner 46:27
Yeah, sour. You were just a bit sour. Were you? Yeah, so, so you humiliated her. She came back with an eye on getting even she does that, but then she has to go and do something online too.

Elizabeth 46:43
Yeah, that is disappointing a little bit. It's okay. My, my sweet moment of revenge was I beat her at nationals to win the gold.

Scott Benner 46:54
Oh, look at you. You got her back eventually, eventually, it took a little while I got there. Did you whisper anything in her ear while you were, like, choking her out or whatever you were doing there,

Elizabeth 47:03
no no that the drill maps, the tatamis where you are competing is almost as is a sacred place. Oh, you can't there was no disrespect there. You can't

Scott Benner 47:14
whisper. I wouldn't have put that on Instagram if I was you while you were, like, making her rethink her life. No,

Elizabeth 47:20
no, okay, in a match. One, you can't talk because you'll get in trouble. And two, it is, it is incredibly difficult for a person to come out and compete in front of a huge stadium for like a like a national title, so I do my best, even if I despise someone I'm fighting with every fiber of my being, I'm never going to disrespect them in a tournament match. I will never, even though

Scott Benner 47:49
go I'm sorry, even though she was disrespectful to you, you wouldn't consider being a being disrespectful back to her. Just you'll just try to beat her. And if you can good, and if not, then, okay.

Elizabeth 47:59
Yeah, exactly. Wow.

Scott Benner 48:03
Geez. Are, like, are people in your town, like, lining up trying to get you to marry their son? No, no, no, they're missing out. I would, I would definitely, if I had a 17 year old son, I'd be definitely pushing him towards you right now. I'd be like, Elizabeth, here, meet my kid. No, yeah, you're, you're, you're special. I would actually, if anything horrible happens to your parents, I might adopt you. So let me know if you need anything. Okay,

Unknown Speaker 48:27
thank you. No, you'd

Scott Benner 48:29
be good respect. I you listen. You'd make me look good. That's what I'm thinking. Get it? I mean, they'd be like, Oh my god, Elizabeth, right. I'm like, Hey, I know I taught her a lot. That's what I would say. Like, behind your back. I take a lot of credit for you. Well, listen, as a person who slander is a tough word, because it because I don't know if I would say that, but I've been slandered before. It's very it's infuriating, like it really is, because it goes beyond somebody's opinion, like, I don't mind if people don't like me. I fully almost expect that I don't care if people don't like me, and they tell their people they don't like me, that even makes sense to me, but making something up because it's hurtful and because you think it will damage somebody or make you feel better, or whatever. Like, I have a real difficult time with that, and I never, even though I have the ability to and a platform to do it on, I don't strike back in a way that would damage somebody, and I could, and I've been brought to the brink of it a couple of times, but I've never actually done it. So I applaud you, because it's difficult, and I'm an adult, and I still sat down and wrote something out just to delete it the other day because somebody in a public setting lied about me in front of a bunch of other people, and I could have and I know a thing about them that they did directly, that I was aware of this part. Person's actions are just so despicable, and they try so hard not to to look they try very hard to look like that's not who they can be. And I don't know them well enough to tell you that's who they are every second of the day, but I've seen them be like that a number of times I have like and I could have outed them, and it would have been really damaging to them, and I didn't do it, but it's the closest I've ever come to doing it. So I know how difficult it is to, like, pull yourself back, and you seem very much more mature than I am actually with your answer. But anyway, I want to give you a lot of credit for that, because it would be easy to strike back, you know,

Elizabeth 50:39
thank you.

Scott Benner 50:40
Thank you, of course, good for you. I don't understand still, you're an alien, right? You were dropped here. You're watching us from Mars or something, and you're trying to, like, blend in. What's going on exactly? I still don't buy this. Why you're so nice. You don't do anything terrible. You ever kick a dog? No, no, what? No,

Elizabeth 50:57
I have a dog. I love dogs.

Scott Benner 51:01
Okay? I didn't think so. You ever stick gum under a desk? No, you would never do that. Would you? No, do you take your shoes off when you come into somebody else's house? Yes, get the out of here, really? Oh, my God. Do

Elizabeth 51:15
you curse on occasion?

Scott Benner 51:17
What's your favorite curse word? Say it now, unburden yourself. It'll get believed. So whatever you say, no one's gonna know what you

Speaker 1 51:24
said. I don't know. That's a good question. I don't know. I don't know. Oh, my God.

Scott Benner 51:34
Seriously, like, what's you do? You have a go. What are you? You're walking through. Here you go. You're walking through the room, you don't have any shoes on, and you kick something and you yell, is it? No,

Elizabeth 51:49
damn. You're gonna laugh at me for this one. I would I would stub my toe, and I would say, Mother of all, that is holy.

Scott Benner 51:57
Is that a curse? No, it's just what I would say. But you're also not religious, no, but you would never say Jesus Christ if something bad happened. Oh, no, I definitely say that one. That one you say, okay, all right. Have you ever said Christ on a cracker? I love that one.

Unknown Speaker 52:16
I'm sorry.

Scott Benner 52:17
What you've never heard that?

Elizabeth 52:19
No, it's now in my arsenal. Now, wait, wait,

Scott Benner 52:22
wait, hold on a second. We have a question to be I don't know where that came from. Let's find the etymology of Hold on a second. What is the etymology

Unknown Speaker 52:34
of Christ on a cracker?

Scott Benner 52:39
The phrase Christ on a cracker, is an exclamation used to express surprise, disbelief, frustration, or exasperation, is considered a euphemism to avoid using more explicit or blasphemous language, substituting a mild or less offensive expression while still conveying strong emotions. Christ refers, of course, to Jesus. Christ, central to Christianity, etc. On a cracker, this part of the phrase adds a touch of absurdity and humor, making the expression less offensive than outright blasphemy. It also suddenly refers a Christian practice of communion. That's what I thought, too, where bread symbolizes the body of Christ, overall. Christ on a cracker serves as a colorful and emphatic way to express strong reaction. Please go to that one the next time you stub your toe, okay, I will. And if people say, What did you just say, Go. I learned that on a podcast. I would please tell people that was, by the way, our chat GPT Overlord, who gave us that breakdown of the etymology of Christ on the cracker. Lovely, yeah. Also, I was typing and not looking completely missed on Etymology and chat, G, P, T, still knew what I was asking, so be aware it's coming for you and me. So psychology, you find people interesting. Why they do things interesting? You want to help them feel better. What's the also? I don't think this is what you're gonna end up doing. I think you're gonna change like, 17 more times, but what interests you about it?

Elizabeth 54:03
So actually, we had a Japanese exchange student come and stay with us for a little while. He also did judo, so he was staying with us and training with us at our club, and he was actually doing his studies in sports psychology, and I found it really interesting. And I was like, hmm, that seems like a really cool profession. And then another of the gentleman at our club, he also him and his wife. I'm good friends with his kid, him and his wife. They're both sports psychologists. I was like, I was talking to him about it. He was like, yeah, like, it's really cool. Like, this the kind of stuff you do. I was like, but I also, I have, I have a soft spot for kids, since my brothers are awesome sauce, but I definitely would go into either sports psychology or child psychology. Elizabeth, every

Scott Benner 54:48
time you talk, I just assume you're not a real person. You're so kind and lovely, and everything you say, I'm like, oh my god, this is amazing.

Unknown Speaker 54:57
Thank you. Seriously,

Scott Benner 54:58
you. I'm like, What the hell is happening? All right? Well, terrific. Let's make sure. Did let's go back and make sure. Did we talk about or not talk about anything that you wanted to Did I miss anything? That's my first question, Not particularly, no. Did you cover things that you were hoping to talk about? The other

Elizabeth 55:19
thing we didn't really talk about was there's something I do called intermittent fasting.

Scott Benner 55:24
Oh, I would like to talk about that. I've done that in the past. Go ahead, tell me, yeah.

Elizabeth 55:29
So the diabetes clinic actually does not like it when I do intermittent fasting, but so the way that they like to or how I've perceived the way that they like to help manage, like a diabetic blood sugar, is the constant use of like food and like sustenance, because, like with food, you can give more insulin and so on so forth. But I found that an important aspect of participating in judo, like to maintain weight and just increase my overall performance, has to do with the intermittent fasting on non tournament days, I try to refrain from eating for around 16 hours each day, sometimes 18. This gives me a chance to focus on like my background and my basal insulin and generally keeps my blood sugars at like a more steady rate on the days where I don't fast, which is usually just like my competition days, or the days where I have, like, like those post tournament training camps, I usually start the day off with some protein and, like, liquids, and I stay light on the heavy carbs, because those are what spike my blood sugar really bad, and then it just kind of stays up for when I'm doing judo for the rest of the day. Instead, I eat those heavier carbs later at night to help rebuild any muscles that I might have broken down a bit during the day, and those carbs actually helped me maintain my blood sugar better overnight on competition days as well. Why would your doctors have a problem with that? They just don't like the fact that I'm only eating about two meals a day. What's

Scott Benner 56:59
your a 1c

Elizabeth 56:59
my a 1c right now is, I think it's around seven.

Scott Benner 57:04
And what's your variability like? Do you bounce? Do you get over 180 very often? Well, no, hold on a second. You're in Canada. Sorry about that. Give me a second. Juicebox podcast, calm a 1c and blood glucose calculator. Type in. You got to get a plug in once in a while. You know what I mean, put in 180 so 10, right? You get above 10 very often.

Elizabeth 57:26
Sometimes I find that when I'm fasting, I actually don't get above 10 very often. I honestly stay lower about where, on a good day, when I wake up in the morning and my blood sugars are around six, I tend to hover between like six and like four

Scott Benner 57:41
Okay, so like between 70 and 110 that's really great. So yeah, and you don't have a ton of variability. Do you know what your do? You happen to know what your, oh, God, simple phrase just fell out of my head. A standard deviation is my standard of deviation. Do you know that you have you ever go into your Dexcom clarity app and look at your standard deviation.

Elizabeth 58:03
Yes. I mean, I haven't done it recently, but I have. Usually I stay between about six and, like, eight, nine.

Scott Benner 58:10
Really, I don't know what, why didn't All right, what is,

Unknown Speaker 58:16
I don't understand. Like, do you think

Scott Benner 58:18
it's just one of those situations where that's like, that's just how they do it. They don't know how to support you. Maybe

Elizabeth 58:23
they also told me, like in the past, or whatever. So I've also gone to, like, diabetes camp and stuff like that. Again, they use food to help manage, like, blood sugar. So they recommend eating like breakfast, a breakfast snack, lunch, like an afternoon snack, and then evening snack, and then, like, dinner, and then, like, a bedtime snack.

Scott Benner 58:43
So they're feeding people on such a schedule that they don't have an opportunity to get low. Yeah, yeah,

Elizabeth 58:49
which I struggle with, because in tournaments, like, we have to, like, weigh in for our competition, so we're fighting people roughly our size. Like, that's why I do the intermittent fasting. It helps me maintain, like, a healthy weight and sit at the spot where I want to be at. Yeah, I'll be, Damn It's upsetting,

Scott Benner 59:06
isn't it, that they can't just kind of meet you where you are and see that you're having success and try to support that.

Elizabeth 59:11
I mean, I see, I see why they don't, why they're like, why they recommend that I should be eating more. It works for me, so I'm going to continue to do it? No,

Scott Benner 59:21
you should. Does it make you feel bad? That's my worry for you. Seems so goddamn nice. Like, do you like? Do you sit there and feel badly about what you're doing? Not at all good. Yeah, you got a spine for that stuff. Seriously, you you have a you have a resilience that you said you used to work grit earlier, if you knew that or not, because I was busy going, I don't know why a 17 year old knows the word grit, but, but do you feel like is that A is that a central part of your personality, like that resilience?

Elizabeth 59:50
I would say I think so. Like being a diabetic and someone who does judo and like a female and someone who's like, had like a. Rough childhood, or whatever you want to call it like I think, I think resilience is a pretty good way to I mean, I'm still here, right? So

Scott Benner 1:00:07
tell me how your childhood was rough.

Elizabeth 1:00:09
My parents divorced when I was about two and a half after they had my my brother, so I spent a lot of time going back and forth between the houses, and there was some conflict there, as well as some like Anim. I don't want to say animosity, because that's the strong word, but there was definitely some conflict between the houses. So when my mom started dating and when she got married again, my dad was mad and this and that, and it was like a constant band here between the two households. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:00:35
that makes sense. Okay, so the divorce is where you feel like you had your first opportunity, where you kind of could have gone backwards a little bit like something could have happened to you, but you didn't like you kept going in the direction that you went, and even though you don't have, like, a firm feeling for where you want to go in life after this, which we both agree, is not something you should probably even know when you're 17. But does that feel like an unknown to you? Like I would say, Yeah, and you deal with it by knowing what it's going to be okay.

Elizabeth 1:01:09
I think I deal with it knowing that even if I don't know where I'm going right now, like my this is going to sound corny, but the adventure towards where I'm gonna end up is one of the best things, right?

Scott Benner 1:01:25
It doesn't sound corny. It sounds like you're 46 and you're fan and you've been through a little bit of but you really understand life.

Elizabeth 1:01:35
I try. Has

Scott Benner 1:01:36
anything really horrifying ever happened in your life? Have you ever lost someone or anything that we would like think of as traumatic as ever happened to you, beyond the divorce.

Elizabeth 1:01:47
Well, I mean, three years ago or three years ago, yeah, this October, my my uncle, so my mom's brother, her little brother, he, he passed away unexpectedly. Obviously, yeah, that that hit my entire family, including me, like a semi truck. Him and my mom were really close. I was also really close with him. We would talk almost all the time. We spent a lot of time together. So that was that was a devastating blow to our entire family.

Scott Benner 1:02:21
How did you guys traverse that?

Elizabeth 1:02:23
It was tough. I think we're still going through a couple of the ripples of the aftermath and stuff like that. I tried my best to stay strong for my mom, because it was, it was her little brother, and I could not imagine losing one of my little brothers, sure. So I just, I tried to stay strong for her and support her any way I knew I could. Definitely went and talked to some people as well. You

Scott Benner 1:02:46
went to therapy, yeah, but then the focus is on being supportive for your mom, like that, doing it for her, like, you'll be strong for someone else. Yes. Do you think she did that for you in return?

Elizabeth 1:02:58
Yeah, probably it's kind of in her nature. Like, that's where I got it from.

Scott Benner 1:03:02
I have a central belief that if people who love each other put each other first, that a lot of things take care of themselves.

Elizabeth 1:03:08
Does that make sense? Yeah, like,

Scott Benner 1:03:11
like, if I'm here for you before me, and you're here for me before you, then we all are supported, and we all feel like we have a like, a greater purpose within our structure, and then it kind of blends out a lot of the problems that come with selfishness and and feeling alone.

Elizabeth 1:03:31
Yeah, that's a really nice way to look at it. Thank

Scott Benner 1:03:33
you. It's a high minded idea I have that I'm not sure that I live up to. Hmm, now that you and I have spoken, do you like me more or less?

Elizabeth 1:03:44
I like you a lot. You're a fun guy. We're

Scott Benner 1:03:48
gonna call this episode Canadian fungus, because I'm a because I'm a fun guy and and you're Canadian, of course, or the Alberta surprise, although that sounds weird, I don't maybe you're you're too young for me to tell you what I thought that sounded like. So maybe we should. We're not gonna say that. Thank God you told me you were 17 before we started, because I knew to like I wasn't sure you come off so adult that I would never in my life have guessed you were 17 if you wouldn't

Elizabeth 1:04:19
have told me. Seriously, that's what I'm aiming for. That's what we're aiming for.

Scott Benner 1:04:22
Why are you aiming for that? Tell me that

Elizabeth 1:04:24
I want to be mature. I want people to go to depend on me and look to me for advice. I want to be there as a good friend and a good person. So I feel like being mature is a good way to start that process. All right. Well, we're

Scott Benner 1:04:36
going to stop the recording here so everyone listening can go off on their day and feel like they are letting someone down compared to you. Seriously, it's not the intent. There are going to be adults all over the world walking around today going, I'm not trying as hard as a 17 year old girl from Alberta. I really got to pull it together. There are also some people who are hoping you end up in prison. I just want you to know that. Oh, okay. They're like, let's see this girl fall in her face. Wait. Oh, something really goes wrong. But yeah, I know I I'm, My money's on you. Elizabeth, thank you. Thank you. I'm gonna put all my loonies, and I think I have four of them here on my desk somewhere. I do, by the way, do I have I somebody sent me Canadian money with the, like, the diabetes, like commemorative stuff on it. Did you do you know that that happened, like, a year or two ago? Yeah? Yeah, I

Elizabeth 1:05:27
have a couple loonies like that. They are loonies because

Scott Benner 1:05:29
I forget if I'm just using the word because I think it's funny, or because they're actually loonies, they might be loonies. They're my desk somewhere. Go through all the Canadian money. Loony, what else is there? Too many quarter I don't know, dime, nickel. Why, in God's name, would they make it Looney and toonie?

Elizabeth 1:05:45
I don't know they're fun. I think it's based off of a Loon, like the bird, but it's like Loon is in one and then toonie, because it's two, $2 Wait,

Scott Benner 1:05:55
is that seriously? A loony is a bird, but a toonie just means two. Loon

Elizabeth 1:06:00
is the type of duck. Go ahead it, yeah, it's just a type of duck. You're like, that shit. Scott, that's

Scott Benner 1:06:07
the whole story. Oh, my God. Have you ever had a Tim bit I have, yeah, and are they any good?

Elizabeth 1:06:19
They taste like bite sized donut pieces. Gotcha. So

Scott Benner 1:06:22
it's nothing special. The chocolate ones, though, are really good. Do you feel controlled by the Queen?

Elizabeth 1:06:29
No, no. We just celebrated our, like, 100 and 52nd year of independence, didn't we? I

Scott Benner 1:06:33
know, but I sometimes I feel like Canadians sometimes have a little bit of that, like, bad feeling left? No,

Elizabeth 1:06:40
I don't think so you

Scott Benner 1:06:41
don't give a crap. Do you? I like you a lot. Sorry. Elizabeth, thanks. All right, I'm gonna go make a baby right now and try to grow it up to be your age, and then I'm gonna send it over to you, because I'd like to see what you could do for it. I also want to point out to my own children that you're not trying hard enough. And Elizabeth is the absolute seriously. You're not even corny.

Elizabeth 1:07:03
You should I'm a little bit corny. No,

Scott Benner 1:07:05
but Elizabeth, you should be, let me be listen. You want to speak. You want to hear some truth right now? Yes, hit me with some truth. You should come off much cornier than you do and you don't, which means it's like it feels authentic. You're freaking me out. I just want you to know that, are your parents freaked out by you? Like, is there a world like, it would have made me feel better if your parents were, like, functioning day drinkers, and they were like, I don't know where she came from, but it feels like they're decent people too, like your staff. You know what I mean? My parents are great. They're great, I know, and I feel like, if they weren't, you'd tell me, right? Yeah, or you talk around it, you would talk around it at least, yeah, like, if your parents weren't really decent people, you wouldn't say that they are would you like, I wouldn't lie about it, right? But you would stay away from it if, seriously, if your mom was a heroin addict, you wouldn't have told me today. Yeah, probably not. I know. I know that about you. I feel like I know you Okay. All right, Elizabeth, you were beyond terrific. I really appreciate you doing this and reaching out. I have to be honest with you, when somebody was like, I want to come on and talk about judo, I was like, oh god, that's gonna be so boring. But okay, and then it wasn't, it was really amazing. So thank you so much. Yeah,

Elizabeth 1:08:22
thank you for having me honestly. This is like a fantastic experience, and I'm really glad that I got this opportunity. Oh,

Scott Benner 1:08:28
I'm glad you feel that way, but, and I believe you, because I know you wouldn't lie to me,

Elizabeth 1:08:36
what was your favorite curse again? What did you say? Mother of all, that is holy.

Scott Benner 1:08:44
But the next time you you stub your toe, you're gonna say, Christ on a cracker. That's right, it's Oh, Christ on a cracker, just like that. And then when people look at you, just go, I learned that on a podcast. Okay, yes, sir. All right, Captain, you're fantastic. Feel free to ask to come back on the show, like when college is over. Okay? Oh, thank you. I would love, I would love to hear how college went for you as a matter of fact. No, don't thank me. As a matter of fact, I'm gonna make a note here for myself. Keep the podcast going for at least five more years so you can hear what Elizabeth did in college. There. You're no no, but I want you to have time to, like, settle in and feel, you know, like reminiscent and everything I am, you're you're now my reason to go on. Thank you very much.

Elizabeth 1:09:30
No, thank you. Seriously,

Scott Benner 1:09:31
hold on one second. You're fantastic.

A huge thank you to one of today's sponsors, gvoke glucagon. Find out more about G vo hypo pen at gvoke glucagon.com, forward slash Juicebox. You spell that, G, V, O, k, e, g, l, U, C, A, G, o, n.com, for. Forward slash juice box. The conversation you just enjoyed was brought to you by us. Med, us. Med.com/juice, box. Or call 888-721-1514, get started today and get your supplies from us. Med, one year one CGM, that's today's sponsor, the ever since 365 learn more and get started today at ever since cgm.com/juicebox, and you may be eligible to receive the system for $199 for a full year. There's more details about eligibility at my link, if you or a loved one was just diagnosed with type one diabetes, and you're looking for some fresh perspective the bold beginning series from the Juicebox podcast is a terrific place to start. That series is with myself and Jenny Smith. Jenny is a CD CES, a registered dietitian and a type one for over 35 years, and in the bowl beginning series, Jenny and I are going to answer the questions that most people have after a type one diabetes diagnosis. The series begins at episode 698, in your podcast player, or you can go to Juicebox podcast.com and click on bold beginnings in the menu. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox podcast. If you're not already subscribed or following the podcast in your favorite audio app like Spotify or Apple podcasts. Please do that now. Seriously, just to hit follow or subscribe will really help the show. If you go a little further in Apple podcast and set it up so that it downloads all new episodes, I'll be your best friend, and if you leave a five star review, ooh, I'll probably send you a Christmas card. Would you like a Christmas card? The episode you just heard was professionally edited by wrong way recording, wrong way recording.com, you.

#1361 After Dark: Stand Up Mixer

November 18, 2024Scott Benner

Natalie overcame addiction and diabetes struggles to now lead a healthy, stable life.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, welcome back to another episode of The Juicebox podcast.

On today's episode, I'll be speaking with Natalie in this after dark. She's 40 years old now, but she was diagnosed with type one diabetes in her teens. At this moment, she's recovering from drug and alcohol addiction, and this is her story. Nothing you hear on the Juicebox podcast should be considered advice medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. Don't forget to save 40% off of your entire order at cozy earth.com All you have to do is use the offer code juice box at checkout. That's Juicebox at checkout to save 40% at cozy earth.com when you place your first order for ag one, with my link, you'll get five free travel packs and a free year supply of vitamin D drink. Ag one.com/juice box. If you are the caregiver of someone with type one diabetes or have type one yourself, please go to T 1d exchange.org/juice, box and complete the survey. This should take you about 10 minutes, and will really help type one diabetes research. You can help right from your house at T 1d exchange.org/juicebox, exchange.org/juice, box.

Dexcom sponsored this episode of The Juicebox podcast. Learn more about the Dexcom g7 at my link, dexcom.com/juicebox, today's podcast is sponsored by touched by type one. Check them out on Facebook, Instagram and at touched by type one.org. If you're looking for an organization who's helping people with type one diabetes, you're looking for touch by type one. Hi. My

Natalie 1:57
name is Natalie. I am a type one diabetes, 40 years old, and I am also a recovering drug addict and alcoholic. I guess my story kind of starts back with my mother, who was, I mean, I grew I was born and raised the Phoenix area of Arizona. They'll live here, born and raised in the same household. My dad still actually lives in very stable upbringing. In that sense, when it comes to my diet, diesel, it starts with my mom. She was a type one diabetic, and didn't find out she was a diabetic until she was eight months pregnant with me, and she lost her eyesight, so I immediately was delivered as a C section, and I was also almost 10 pounds that about eight months of pregnancy, my diabetes journey really started from the time I was born. Even though I wasn't technically born with it, I grew up around, you know, eating back in the 80s. You know, you eat the the Sweet and Low, the crystal lights, the diet sodas, everything was a diabetic diet for a whole entire family. So by the time it came around for me to become a diabetic, it really wasn't that much of a change. Can

Scott Benner 3:14
you tell me a little bit about your mom? Like, lost her eyesight for good?

Natalie 3:19
No, no, no. Once her, once her blood sugars got back under control, she gained her eyesight back. Okay, okay,

Scott Benner 3:25
that's what I kind of thought you were getting at, but I wasn't 100%

Natalie 3:29
Yeah, no, she, she got her eyesight back. Um, a little, a little more history with my mom is that she's also an alcoholic, so I grew up with her being in and out of recovery a lot as well, which eventually down the line, which led to her passing from her her alcoholism, which affected, obviously, her diabetes and so, like on her death certificate, complications of diabetes is why she died, but it was a direct reflection of her not taking care of herself.

Scott Benner 3:54
I'm so sorry. I can I ask a question like, do you have more context? Like, so she had type one. It wasn't gestational. I

Natalie 4:03
think it started off as gestational, okay, but she was diagnosed as type one. However, she also never, I think she may have gone to an endocrinologist, from my memory, maybe once for the whole time. I don't think it was much of a thing, or she was just so, so in control most of my life. I remember my mom being in such great control of, you know, giving yourself insulin. She'd have us give her insulin so we knew how to, like, give her shots, and we tested our blood sugars and her blood sugars, and she was super strict about diet and exercise. So she really did take care of herself for most of my life

Scott Benner 4:41
going? Would you consider her like a functioning alcoholic, or was she like a fall down drunk?

Natalie 4:47
I would say she she was more functioning until my parents got divorced. Okay? When my parents got divorced, I would think I was 16, 1516, I was around high. School time, and when my parents got divorced, my my mom completely different person. She's the one who moved out. My dad finished raising me, and so she moved out, and it was just downhill from that. It was just like one extreme to the other. She got into the drugs it was. She was homeless for some time. Every now and then she gets sober again, you know, a slew of bad men constantly, it kind of turned into my sister. My older sister really took the role of being her parent. Unfortunately, she had that burden on her. So me, my mom became a strain for about five years. You know, I was just angry. I was getting through high school. I was with my dad. Was just being my dad for even now, it's mostly just me and my dad.

Scott Benner 5:46
So how old was she when she was pregnant with you? You know, he was 30. Oh, okay, and you're the youngest.

Natalie 5:54
I have the youngest. Yeah, I have a sister that's four years older than me. Okay. And then, how

Scott Benner 5:59
old were you when you were diagnosed?

Natalie 6:00
So here's a funny story, or the weird, the weird part, I don't have an exact like, Hey, this is what happened. You know, I was in DK, you know there was, there's no, like, big event that came with it. It was my mom saw the signs. And I think I was around 11, and growing up, I was a huge dancer. I danced almost every single day dance studios. I was a cheerleader. I was extremely active. And when I was around 11, my mom started, I guess, noticing the signs and the constant being thirsty, the yeast infections, the peeing all the time, and the doctors kind of pushed it off. And I remember going there, and they're like, oh, we'd rather just watch her for a little bit. And then once I got into my teenage years, I got into drugs and partying, and I just, I, of course, I neglected myself, and so I never actually got an an official diagnosis until I was almost 18, okay, and then I didn't take care of myself and actually give myself insulin until I became pregnant, and that's when I decided I should live for something. And I was at 19,

Scott Benner 7:13
about a year later. Hey, did your when you were growing up? Was your mom using in the house? Or is that a thing that happened after she left, or was it happening? And that's why she left

Natalie 7:23
the alcohol, the alcoholism in the house. Like I've never, I never knew my mom to do drugs, except for maybe when I was really, really little. She used to have special cigarettes, which I now know it was weed, but I never saw her like, really do that. It was mostly just the alcohol. It was very dysfunctional behind closed doors, for sure, my mom was a raging alcoholic. It was being woken up in the middle of the night with my mom on top of my dad, with a nice tons of fights. It was running to the bedroom, you know, and hiding from everybody to serve, going crazy trying to break up fights. There was a lot of that that I think I have chosen to probably block out, or I was too young to really understand what was going on at the time, my sister has some crazy stories that she can tell you, but for me, I remember my childhood being mostly good. And I don't know if that's like a defense thing, a mental thing. I don't know what that it is, but most of the memories were good, but I do remember that when mom was bad, she was really bad, and she she was crazy.

Scott Benner 8:33
Does she have any mental illness that you're aware of?

Natalie 8:36
Definitely depression, probably some anxiety thrown in there. Nothing like bipolar or anything that required, I don't know her, to be necessarily, put in a hospital or anything. But as since she's passed, I have found out a lot of serving history, like family history, which has been interesting to find out on her side, on her side, yeah, my mom's an army brat, and so, you know, she grew up all over the place, but my my grandmother is from Australia, and so they lived in Australia. My mom was very young, and just some of the stuff like, I mean, forgive me, grandma, but she was a whole and she has, like, like, random kids places. The reason why she married my grandpa, I guess alcohol, alcoholism runs deep with my grandma, and she was a raging alcoholic as well. Oh, okay, so it runs deep on my mom's side.

Scott Benner 9:34
Are you an alcoholic? No,

Natalie 9:35
I am. I mean, I'm not. I'm I'm recovering alcoholic. Okay, so I was gonna say there's parts of my life where alcoholism was definitely the main focus, you know? I mean, obviously it landed me in jail, got a DUI, but mess was my big thing. I never really did the both. It was either one or the other, either I was off the chain with alcohol or it was. I loved doing that math was my favorite until it got too real.

Scott Benner 10:04
What age did you start with? Well, I guess, what did you what drug did you try first?

Natalie 10:08
Actually, the very first thing I ever tried was acid. Oh yeah, that was the very first thing I ever did. And I think I was 15. I was in ninth grade, so I was around 15. How does that happen? I know I think it was at a party. It was, like, one of my very first parties, okay, that I ever went to, and so I just remember trying it and it was fun, and I never did it again, like, ever again. Like, it was cool, it was fun, like, whatever, like, it was scary to look into me, or, I think being my best friend. Best friend last so much, we literally feed our pants, full experience whatever, no interest in touching it again during that time, though, that my ninth grade year must have been around. That must have been women, parents got divorced, because that's when I really got out of control. I would drink alcohol while I was sitting in class, I would have vodka in my walk model, and I would drink him. I eventually did get caught once, because I took all over the floor inside my school. So I got, you know, suspended for that, and I got kicked off a cheerleading so I'm pretty sure that's the memory that people have of me as the girl or the cheerleader who's her up all over the hallway in ninth grade.

Unknown Speaker 11:24
Geez.

Scott Benner 11:25
You remember this is good? Or you remember like younger years is good? I

Natalie 11:30
remember my younger years as good, you know, I remember my parents being really in love with each other. They would dance together, you know, they would kiss like we did everything together. You know, we took lots of family trips. They were always very supportive. Everybody was always the whole family was always there together to support each other. We'd always have like we were Girl Scouts, and I'm almost a troop leader, but nobody knew what was happening behind closed doors when everybody left

Scott Benner 11:57
those cookies are like crack. So maybe that was, maybe that was her.

Natalie 12:01
Maybe that was really the start of it. Well,

Scott Benner 12:04
okay, do you think looking back now with hindsight, like was the laughing and dancing and kissing like mom and dad were drunk in the living room all the time? Oh,

Natalie 12:13
absolutely. Okay, absolutely, yeah. And when we have these big bonfires in the backyard with the family members, of course there were tons of alcohol, right? Tons of alcohol.

Scott Benner 12:23
Did you feel supported emotionally? Did you like if you needed help with homework or a life problem? Did you feel like they were there for you for

Natalie 12:32
the most part? My mom, my mother, absolutely okay. She was also a huge enabler. Never, ever questioned my parents love for me, I don't think when it came to, let's say issues or big things that happened, we were kind of the family that swept it under the rug. Like, okay, this happened, let's not talk about it later. Like, just get through it, and we just don't talk about it. Like, you're grounded for a week and that's it. We just don't talk

Scott Benner 12:56
about it. Yeah, do you know who initiated their divorce? My

Natalie 13:00
mom would threaten divorce a lot, but my dad finally pulled straw on

Scott Benner 13:03
it. He's like, hey, you know what? Why don't you actually go, yeah? He's like,

Natalie 13:07
Yeah, I'm been doing this for 20 years, like I'm done. Did your

Scott Benner 13:11
dad clean himself up? Or would you call him addicted? Now,

Natalie 13:16
you know, I really, I feel my dad is a functioning alcoholic, like extremely functioning, like my dad is. He drinks a lot, but you won't see him drunk, but you also won't see him without a drink,

Scott Benner 13:32
maybe, like a 12 pack a day kind of thing. Well,

Natalie 13:35
he's a vodka drinker. But yes, okay, yes, he will. He's a bot pi draker, as he's gotten older and his body's hurting, I, for some reason, I feel I have absolutely no proof of this. I feel like there might be pain pills involved. Oh, geez. But my dad will, he's he has pride. He will never admit anything.

Scott Benner 13:56
Did you grow up in poverty? Did you guys have money? Where was your What was it like? Financially?

Natalie 14:02
I would say we were middle class, okay. However, also growing up, my dad, come like my grandparents, or my grandpa was an aerospace engineer, and he used to be vice president of TRW, which is now Boeing, I believe so. My dad grew up very wealthy in the Pacific politics in California, his godmother was vivid and Vance from, and she's Ethel from, I Love Lucy, really. Oh, he grew up, yeah, yeah. He grew up kind of like the a list or lifestyle. We had everything that we needed, and probably most of what we wanted. Looking back on what I also found out is like the reason that we had the house was because our grandparents bought it. You know, the reason why my parents had the cars they did was because my grandparents bought it. So you think your parents grew up poorly. My dad did not, absolutely no, my mom. I mean, my mom was an Army brat, so and there was. Five kids in her family. So, I mean, I don't know how that was. She's never said anything that she lived early or wealthy, never, she didn't talk about the childhood much, actually, yeah,

Scott Benner 15:09
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Natalie 17:18
No, I fit into that category. I feel like I felt they would, oh, my God.

Scott Benner 17:22
It feels like they were talking to you and then just wrote down what happened to you and made the list. These are risk factors for childhood development, right? So they're traumatic events or circumstances that could lead to, you know, their risk factors, let's say for you not turning out the way you would hope this is the list chronic stress, so ongoing stresses, whether they're family issues or financial stability, academic pressure, anything like that, that's, you know, anxiety, depression based. I'm going to count growing up with drunks as a stressful abuse or neglect. Were you physically, emotionally or sexually abused? No, you don't think emotional abuse being the child of alcoholics? Probably, yeah, okay, yeah. Probably the next one is parental substance abuse. Growing up with parents who abuse drugs or alcohol, we've got that one so we have stress. We're going to give you parents of substance abuse. Maybe we'll skip over abuse and neglect. But you know, because you get the other one, any domestic violence, you said, yes, your mom would hold a knife on your dad. Yep, losses, poverty, you didn't have lack of parental involvement, like sufficient attention, guidance and support, but like the kind you would want to give a child, not just like they were

Natalie 18:39
there, being there, yeah, they were present. I mean, their physical bodies were present, okay,

Scott Benner 18:45
lack of parental involvement. We got inconsistencies and discipline. And you said there, yes, right? Yes, absolutely. Any mental health issues with your parents.

Natalie 18:56
I know my dad struggled with depression as well as my mom that. I mean, that's all I told about.

Scott Benner 19:03
Well, divorce or separation, you have that one, and then the last one is exposure to crime or violence,

Natalie 19:10
yeah, I guess so, yeah. I mean, if you think about like, when it comes to like, crimes, my parents were, like, the type that would go still, street signs,

Scott Benner 19:19
wait as adults.

Natalie 19:21
Oh yeah, oh yeah. So we lived in this area that wasn't built up yet. I mean, now it's huge in the east valley here, but like, they would put these little I remember specifically in this farmland area I think they were going to be building and they have these street signs of what the street names were going to be. And I remember in we had like, a 1972 station wagon. I don't know why I remember that so well, okay, but I remember being in the back of that station wagon, and my parents driving up next to this field and stealing all these street signs, and then we had them all lined up in the backyard, on the porch. I think my dad still has a couple of them hanging up there, actually. 5050, well,

Scott Benner 20:00
modern mental health doctors believe that you had, and this is me making up a term. It's not from a list, no fucking chance. Yeah.

Natalie 20:12
I know absolutely, absolutely. Isn't

Scott Benner 20:15
it interesting is that the things that happen in your adult life, which we're going to talk about, are completely predictable by these things,

Natalie 20:21
yeah? And it's, it's crazy that it's able to be

Scott Benner 20:25
predicted too. Yeah, no, no. I mean, isn't Isn't it odd to hear somebody read a list to you, and you go, Oh, yeah, that, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Natalie 20:33
So what is this? Where do I call it? What was this thing called? Oh, if you want to look

Scott Benner 20:36
into it more, it's called the it's called aces. It's adverse childhood experiences, or sometimes people call it risk factors for childhood development, but the term ACES is it should get you there on a Google search so you start, okay, Jesus. Now, do you have a good sense of humor about this? Natalie?

Natalie 20:53
Oh, hell, yeah. Okay. Okay, good. Me. I mean, you should hear the sense of humor me and my my daughter have about everything, even the stuff that she's been through that I put her through,

Scott Benner 21:02
I've put her well, we'll get to that. So, yeah, 15 you go to a party and you're like, you know what? I could start slow with a half a beer, or, why don't we try acids? But did that, Christ, I know was that the first half hour you were there and is, I mean, can you look back now? Were you trying to escape, like, how you felt? Do you think you were just, like, getting involved in the family business? Like, what was going on there?

Natalie 21:27
I honestly, I feel it was kind of like I am hanging out with, like, the popular people at school. And I, I remember being just really excited that I was a part of that group.

Scott Benner 21:37
Maybe it was what they're doing that I'm in. Like, yes, exactly. Okay,

Natalie 21:42
exactly. All right,

Scott Benner 21:43
let me just weed. Probably yes, right?

Natalie 21:46
I've maybe been like, I a total of 10

Scott Benner 21:51
times, if that my whole life. Interesting cocaine,

Natalie 21:54
I've never liked it. You didn't like a couple times.

Scott Benner 21:58
Cocaine, a couple times. How about heroin? Never, never. I don't even like pain pills. Gotcha, but meth, yes, please.

Natalie 22:08
Oh yeah, okay, that's the winner. How old? First time, first time I was 17. Wow. My sister introduced me to

Scott Benner 22:17
it. Your sister was like, hey, you know what you would love math.

Natalie 22:23
So my sister had her, you know, my sister had a worst upbringing, or she remembers the real upbringing that I choose to forget. And she started very young, getting in trouble. She, she, you know, I was a golden child. If there was a golden child between us, I was a golden child. So she was the bad one. She started doing method like 15, and she's four years older than me, so when I was 17, she was already moved out of the house and stuff, okay? And I always kept my distance from her, because, I mean, I was in school and, you know, I was doing semi Okay, and somewhat of where I was going in life compared to her, right? But once my heart got broken by my heart my high school sweetheart, everything changed for me. Okay, everything. And I went to go see my sister, and that was it. So you go to your sister

Scott Benner 23:11
for some sisterly advice. And her advice was, let's do math. Yeah, wow, basically, geez, yeah.

Natalie 23:19
And I remember doing it for the very first time. And I'm like, like, smoking this bowl. And I'm like, I remember thinking, like, What the hell is this? Because, you know, like, when, when you drink, like you feel it like you your eyesight feels it like your whole body, like you could feel it. But like with meth, I was like, Okay, what is this? She's like, you haven't shut up for like, 30 minutes. This is the effects. This is this, is it? I'm like, oh, okay, cool. So I could be more outgoing. I was a little bit shy, Tim at person until you got to know me. Yeah, I was very shy. Actually, that's

Scott Benner 23:51
some positive PR for meth, by the way, be more outgoing. Have your teeth fall out. Do you have your teeth? I do. Congratulations. You know, I've

Natalie 24:01
also been blessed throughout my childhood of despite my criminal background and my history, I've always landed, not always, but most of the time. I've landed great jobs with big corporations that have good health care, really, so I've been able to keep my teeth like right now I work.

Scott Benner 24:19
My son's having trouble getting a job. Do you think I should tell him that on meth, you had no trouble getting hired? How do you think you'll well,

Natalie 24:28
okay, here's the thing. I didn't work when I was on very well, okay, did a little bit, but most of my adulthood have, I've been in recovery. I say it's been an on and off thing, um, mostly in recovery most of my adulthood. So

Scott Benner 24:43
how long did the seriously, how long did the math using go on for and at what point do you try to, like, get cleaned up? So from

Natalie 24:49
the time like 17, stayed on, it pretty consistent. I never got in trouble anything. It was just, if it was around, it was around. And you. My sister's boyfriend was the drug dealer, and she was with him for like, 15 years.

Unknown Speaker 25:04
He's got a good job.

Natalie 25:07
Yeah, it worked for a minute, right until it didn't. So it was always free to me. When I got pregnant is when, like, life started, like, flipping the switch, and during my I didn't really explain. Explain this for other people. It makes sense to other people. I was 19 when I got pregnant. I had sex with, you know, my daughter's wonderful dad. I say that very sarcastically. I mean, he's doing well now, but you know, at the time, not a good choice. I got pregnant after having sex with him one time, that same night that we had sex, which was Christmas morning, we got rated by the Feds for him because I picked a winner,

Scott Benner 25:46
jeez. So this wasn't the first time. Was this first time you had sex with him? Yeah?

Natalie 25:52
Christmas morning, the one and only time we had sex. And then the feds came and rated us for him. Merry

Scott Benner 25:57
Christmas. Here's a baby. Yeah? Get dressed. Yeah. And I because Uncle Sam, I ignored

Natalie 26:03
it too. I ignored that pregnancy for almost five months.

Scott Benner 26:06
You knew you were pregnant. You tried to pretend you weren't. Well, here's the thing.

Natalie 26:10
Apparently, you know, you have to read the directions when you take a pregnancy test, you know, so you're supposed to wait until you have a missed period. But when you're high all the time, you don't know what, how long it's been since you had a period. So I took two pregnancy tests, and it says I wasn't pregnant. So I was like, okay, like, I'm not pregnant. And then when I started, couldn't, couldn't put my pants on anymore, I finally was like, Okay, I need to go see a doctor, and I was pregnant. Really?

Scott Benner 26:36
Wow. Yeah. So I was, were you doing meth that time? Yeah, yeah. Go ahead, tell me yes,

Natalie 26:41
I was, I was totally getting high the whole time until I was about five months. Did

Scott Benner 26:46
that have any effects on the baby? Glad to ask her. I

Natalie 26:48
mean, she came out fine. She came out completely wonderful, beautiful, seven pounds other than that. I mean, does she

Scott Benner 26:56
know this? Like this, something she's aware of? Yes. Explain to me the day you said to your daughter, your daughter, right? Yeah, yeah, hey, honey, I have to tell you something. I used meth for the first five months of your pregnancy. So I don't

Natalie 27:11
really know how this topics started. I pretty I used to bring her, or even now she'll come with me every now and then to, you know, like a a meetings and NA meetings, you know, and topics would get brought up. I don't know if remember that conversation actually having with her, or if it was my even my sister drugs during her first pregnancy. And I'm, I don't remember how the conversation started with, we mean her. I was like, you know that I was high during the first part of my pregnancy with you. I remember saying that and us having a conversation. I don't remember how the topic got brought up in the first place.

Scott Benner 27:53
Okay, how many kids do you have? Just one one, it's the one. Just this lucky, this lucky baby that came out after Christmas, by the way, was that your Christmas present, like, did you get a bracelet too, or something? It's terrible. Jesus, my God, all right, hold on. It's

Natalie 28:14
not like we were in love. You know, I feel, in a way, I feel very fortunate because, like her dad, he's actually been on the news telling his story. He's kind of a cool dude to talk to, but he's been in and out of prison, you know, since he was 20. And he's 10 years older than me when I met him, you know, I was about 19, and he had just gotten out of doing 10 years in prison, and so I knew he was on the run, and then when he defense came and rated us, he did, like, another six years, got out for like, maybe a couple months, went back. He's been gone. He was gone consistently until she was about 14 or 15. So I told, in a way, very blessed that, like, he wasn't around, he didn't break my heart. He knew from day one. I never said I was going to be with moms. Like, dude, I'm done. Bye, yeah. Like, we've had an, like, a friendship relationship. And, you know, because of our daughter,

Scott Benner 29:10
listen, you weren't a virgin on this day, correct? Oh no, no. Oh no, God no. Did you hear the story about my grandmother?

Natalie 29:18
Yeah, yeah.

Scott Benner 29:20
What I meant was, is that what I was trying to get to was a lot of your existence, just like, go somewhere, get high, have sex, yes, okay, and yeah, I got you. How are you involved in these many things that I know for myself, I'd go, I have to leave. Like, I don't want to be here. Like, if I went to a party when I was 15 and somebody was doing as they'd be like, Oh, I made a mistake, and then I would have went home. But what draws you in, over and over again? Oh, yeah, what doesn't stop you?

Natalie 29:51
I think maybe it's which is super controversial for a lot of people, of being able to stop I think my addiction kicked in. You know what I mean? There, there comes a. Point where you like to, I don't know if there's any medical terminology, but it's like, it flips a switch in your brain and it becomes the obsession. You know, it's not like, especially with math. It's not a physical obsession. It is a mental obsession. It's like that. What is it the dopamine or the serotonin that get kicked in? And it's just like, you have to have more. I can't even explain not,

Scott Benner 30:23
like, the way people like, talk about heroin, for example, like, it's not, like, a physical you think it's not a physical addiction for you? No,

Natalie 30:30
I mean, it would be physical, as in, you need more to stay awake and to, like, move and stuff, but you don't get physically ill. Offered, you know, like, the worst that's gonna happen when you come off of meth is you're gonna sleep, you might have a crazy outburst because you're so emotional, you're gonna cry and you're gonna eat a ton. Okay,

Scott Benner 30:48
well, chatgpt believes that it is physically addictive. It says someone uses meth it triggers the release of large amounts of dopamine in the brain, which creates intense feelings of pleasure and euphoria. Over time, the brain's chemistry can change, leading to tolerance, needing more of the drug to get the same effect. Yes, yeah, yes, that's your experience with it. Yes, absolutely. Okay. Wow. How old were you when you're diagnosed with type one?

Natalie 31:15
I was about 17, around 17, almost 18. I couldn't remember. I didn't start taking care of myself until I was pregnant, though, okay, yeah, I'm

Scott Benner 31:22
sorry. I couldn't remember at all. I was like, I was dizzy by the whole thing, are you taking care of your diabetes at all during that time? You have to be taking basal insulin at least, right?

Natalie 31:32
I would every now and then when I remembered, okay, it was like, and fun story is that I actually one of my best, like, using buddies was diabetic, and she was a type one diabetes since she was, like, nine years old, and so, like, when I'd see her take her in, I was like, No, I should probably check my blood sugar and see what mine's at as we're eating a pack of Skittles and drinking, you know, a Code Red Mountain too, because that's what we love to do. What

Scott Benner 31:56
a great idea. I should take my insulin. So, I mean, were you going to the doctor?

Natalie 32:00
No, no, no. So I got kicked off of my parents health insurance when I was out of school, because, you know, that's the way it used to be, yeah, and so, like, I was on state assistance. I made sure I stayed on government, like health care for so many years, like, intentionally made sure I didn't make enough money to make sure that my diabetes was taken care of. Yeah,

Scott Benner 32:22
so many years, so sad. I mean, it just is. Well, not just the whole thing is, you get diagnosed in your 17 there's no one there to God, there's no one there to be a parent, you know what I mean, and and to learn about this thing for you and try to help you navigate it. You're high now, so you're not even paying attention to it. They don't. I mean, you're a meth they got to know you're using meth, right?

Natalie 32:45
I was sure they knew. I mean, not once did anybody ever bring it up to me. But I'm sure

Scott Benner 32:51
that no one ever looked Natalie, you okay? You look high.

Natalie 32:56
Yeah, yeah. No, never, never. And you know, I was also never a person that got extra skinny or lost a bunch of weight, if anything, I was like, at the weight, I probably should have been, according to doctors, I didn't like pick my face. I didn't, you know, I have my teeth. I didn't fit the description of a tweaker at all. Oh, Jesus,

Scott Benner 33:16
this. It's so much to think about. You know what I mean? Like, there's so many people who are supposed to be supporting each other, but they're also lost in their own problem. That how could they possibly, absolutely,

Natalie 33:26
yeah, absolutely. And during that early time, my mom was actually in recovery, and she'd keep her distance, um, she'd let me come to her. Of course, I would go to her when, you know, like, she said, Yeah, Mom, I need money. Mom, I need this. Mom, I need that. And then when it was like, Mom, I'm pregnant. Like, if it wasn't for my mom, my daughter totally would have, and should have been taken away from me, for sure, for sure,

Scott Benner 33:49
because you would have done such a poor job, or because she was able, okay, yeah,

Natalie 33:55
to be completely transparent with it. If I wasn't so far along, I would have had an abortion, for sure. I never wanted to be a mom ever.

Scott Benner 34:05
It's because you found out at five months you couldn't do it, correct, yeah, all right, you would have had an abortion, but you didn't know for five months. You're so high you didn't know for five months, right? Right? Okay, exactly, all right. And then you find out you don't know what to do, so you go to your mom, yeah, what does she do for

Natalie 34:26
you? She hugged me, and she's like, You don't have to do this alone. I'll do it with you. I remember that, and we cried. She immediately went and found out the part, because at the time, she was running a halfway house, a recovery house for women. She put her whole life like on hold for me. She went and got us our own place that we stayed in for a few years together. You know, she helped me raise my daughter in the beginning, for

Scott Benner 34:50
sure, what was that like? Was she any good at that? Yeah,

Natalie 34:53
my mom. So another crazy part about my mom is she

Scott Benner 34:56
clean by then? Yes, yes. How does she. Like,

Natalie 35:00
when my mom, when she's like, when she's great, she's great, like, she is like, this person that you like, walk into a room and people are in awe of her because her aura was so good. But like, when she's bad, everyone is just like, Get Get away from me. Like, it's just crazy the night and day. Okay, now she also all my growing up, and from the time like I was born until the time I was 11, my mom was an in home daycare provider, and she had a sorry, hold

Unknown Speaker 35:29
on a second.

Natalie 35:30
I know, I know, I know he had a wait list, because people in the neighborhood wanted her to be like, watch their kids. She used to have a total of sometimes 16 kids at our home during the day. Is

Scott Benner 35:44
there any chance this was a front for a drug dealing thing?

Natalie 35:49
They dropped the kids off? Genius, yeah, maybe pick it up. Pick

Scott Benner 35:53
it up drugs when they drop off the kids.

Natalie 35:57
The new next series should start on that one.

Scott Benner 36:01
Jesus, hey. So you know this is screwed up, right? Oh, absolutely okay. All right, you completely were okay, so, all right, you have your daughter. When do you get locked up? What happens there?

Natalie 36:13
I have my daughter. She is about, I think it was around 2000 I don't remember the years, but my daughter was young. I eventually had gotten clean because I had gotten in trouble. I got my first felony. So I went to rehab and I stayed clean. I don't even want to say I was in recovery, so I just stayed abstinent for about five years. What was

Scott Benner 36:35
the felony? Well, I

Natalie 36:36
had that just means of transportation, and then I had that's with a credit card, forgery with a red instrument and identity theft.

Scott Benner 36:45
But forgery with a, what a written instrument,

Natalie 36:48
okay? Because I signed using one of the digital things,

Scott Benner 36:53
okay, oh, after you stole the credit card. Oh, yeah, yeah, we

Natalie 36:56
went to Macy's whose card just

Scott Benner 36:59
a person's No, okay, yeah, yeah, I got it. I have to ask you, what did you buy at Macy's?

Natalie 37:05
My God, a mixer, like, what? You know, those stand up mixers that I had no idea what to do with, but I knew the dope man would find it valuable. You know what? I mean,

Scott Benner 37:23
you bought the mixer to sell the mixer, yeah, yeah. I'm sorry. It just sounds so ridiculous. You're like, you know, I just thought I'd get into making cookies. Scott, like I was all charged up on meth, and I had this credit card, and I was like, I got, we should try baking, yeah? But you

Natalie 37:39
were, I mean, that sounds normal, actually, yeah, like you're describing

Scott Benner 37:44
Thursday. It's so crazy. It's so it is crazy, and it's sad and happening to way more people than somebody would want to believe. Yeah, what leads you to get

Natalie 37:53
clean? I had was put on probation. Then my probation officer was like, Hey, this is your choice. You are not missing clean anymore or at all, or you're diluting, you know, like all these issues, you're either going to show up to this rehab or you're going to jail. Like, these are your choices. Okay? And so I went, and I showed up at that rehab, and at the time, I was actually have been with somebody who we use drugs with, and he had gotten clean on his own, and he was like, literally just waiting for my time to come, for me to get clean. And so he was already in recovery, doing well, and as soon as I got clean, we immediately got back together. We stayed together for a long time, and actually was engaged to him at one point,

Scott Benner 38:36
but you did go to jail. Is that correct at one point? I did that comes after this felony. Oh, after you got clean. Sorry, yes, yes.

Natalie 38:45
So I got clean. I never saw any jail time for that. Those charges, right? Because it was, like my first offense, you know, the relation, yeah, finished. That completed. After my fiance and I broke up, I went on the Benner of drinking alcohol. That's when I was like at my worst, and probably the most like alcoholic me I've ever been. My favorite thing to do was drink alcohol, drive a car, listen to music, and I used to do all those things together when I didn't have my daughter around me. So I got a DUI, and in Arizona at that time, not sure how they are now, but the laws were hard, super hard, and that's where 10 city came into place. It was my first DUI by first and only DUI offense. And I blue like a point one, five, but my blood came back at point 255, of course, they went with a higher charge. So I had a Super Extreme DUI. They let me do work with work release, which was crazy. So I did work release for 15 days, and then after work release, I was on house arrest for 45 days, and I had a breathalyzer in my house. So every time I'd come near like the house or entering back. Into the house, I have to go blow into this machine. And when I was on that house arrest is when I picked up drugs again, because I couldn't drink, couldn't drink. You know, the next option would be drugs during

Scott Benner 40:11
all this. There's no point your brain just, there's no point. I understand addiction and the idea there, but I'm just, there's no point where you just, like, think, like, this isn't going well, like my life is not going well. Or do you think it is?

Unknown Speaker 40:26
No,

Natalie 40:27
I absolutely know it's not going well,

Scott Benner 40:29
okay, but you can't stop long enough to like, did you have the opportunity for a change? Were you without opportunity as well?

Natalie 40:36
You know my aunt Missouri, like after so I left my fiance, I had gotten my own place. Of course, I ended up losing that place because the DUI and then and at that exact same time, like, literally, like two weeks after I got that DUI, I got laid off from my job. That was around 2008 I remember it was like the the recession type era, and I went to go live with my aunt, my daughter and I went to go live with my aunt, who also have both her and my uncle both have, like, long term, like, 20 plus years of sobriety. Okay? So I was like, perfect. This is where I need to go. But it didn't help. It didn't work. You know, I all I did was waste my time. I'm getting high during that time Jesus

Scott Benner 41:20
Christ. Oh, God heights, the horrifying okay, how do you end up in jail the next eventually, then

Natalie 41:26
eventually, because of the guy I was dating. I don't even, I'm not even sure stuff started getting too real. We took off in Texas because, of course, that was supposed to be a new change, and if I just get out of Arizona, I'll be fine. No,

Scott Benner 41:40
the problem is, it's Arizona, not me, yeah, of course, yeah, it's not me, right? If I can get out of here, I'll be okay, yes, okay, exactly. So

Natalie 41:49
my daughter's dad's family lives in Texas, and they said, hey, we'll put you on a train and you come move out here. So within seven days, I packed my daughter, my current boyfriend, and myself and we moved out to this little, tiny town with like, a population of like 5000 people in Texas. Awful experience. When I came back from Texas, I had a warrant out for my arrest for not paying my fines. Okay? I think it was like a bench board or something. That's what got me placed in jail.

Scott Benner 42:22
What went wrong that this is going to we're going to relocate, and everything is going to be great plan. Where did

Natalie 42:27
that go wrong? I immediately put us into another dysfunctional family. His whole family is also alcoholic, and his sister was so messed up on pills, like it was just like Jesus, you know, just me taking a step, and nothing changed. It just happened to be with a new family. Natalie,

Scott Benner 42:44
do you listen to the podcast? I do I sound like, square to you when I'm talking or do, like, how do I come on? Like, I'm being, being, like, really serious. Now, I'm not making this about me. I'm just trying to understand, like, I'm hearing your life, and I'm like, What in the hell is happening? Like, when you hear mine, what do you think? Normal, happy,

Natalie 43:04
stable.

Scott Benner 43:04
Is it like, I wish I had that like, because I get notes from people sometimes who are like, Arden, so lucky to have a dad who blah, blah, and a mom who and I, and I think all the time, like, how is that lucky? Isn't that the minimum I should expect from my parents? Oh, absolutely. But in most people's lives, it's lucky, you know what? I mean,

Natalie 43:25
yeah, unfortunately, yeah, no, I get what you're saying. You know I mean,

Scott Benner 43:29
no, listen to your list for a second. Your grandmother, your mom, your dad, your sister, the guy you met who rolled over on you and got you pregnant. Yeah, his dad, your sister, everybody you walk into the guy over here, the guy over here, like, you never once bump into somebody who's like, oh my god, Natalie, you're you're so lovely. You should be in the spelling bee with me. And you go, Oh my god, the spelling bee, that'd be wonderful. Nothing like that ever happens to you. Which indicates that you're so surrounded by it. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Jesus Christ,

Natalie 44:02
I'm a firm believer. Of, like, no, also, like, the laws of attraction, we attract people like us, you know, like, quote, unquote, like, normal people don't hang out with drug addicts. Well, yeah,

Scott Benner 44:13
I mean, there's, there's a fair statement for you, like, like, like, you

Natalie 44:18
know what I mean, like, I'm not going to be appealing to like, like, if me and you were to cross paths on the street, even having a conversation that's probably not ever going to go any further than that conversation, because we just have two different lifestyles. I

Scott Benner 44:30
could think you're lovely, have a great time talking to you, but you think there's some level where I'm going to I would go. It seems like maybe trouble. And no thank you. But would you see me and think, like, oh my god, stable. Like, how do I make this happen? Or do you think, no, I gotta go find a drug addict, because that's how I fit. See what I'm saying.

Natalie 44:47
The search was always to find somebody better and more stable than me. For

Scott Benner 44:51
sure, literally, just couldn't identify anybody and get and bring them into your life, into your sphere. Yeah.

Natalie 44:57
I mean, who would want, who would want to deal with this hot. Mess. You know what? I mean, nobody wants I mean, I'm sure you want to be captain save a hoe. They'd be like, that's a mess. Sorry.

Scott Benner 45:09
You know what's funny is, later I will get like, somebody will like, someone's gonna write a note that say I was like, insensitive to you, or I don't understand blah, blah, blah. They'll skip right over the part where you said Captain save a hoe talking about yourself, by the way, they'll just be like, no one will bring that up when they're yelling at me for doing this wrong. Later. I love what my job it's ridiculous. Holy Okay, Jesus Christ. Texas doesn't work. I have a hard time keeping up with this. Texas doesn't work. You know, you head back home, you get home to find out there's a warrant for you, and they and they arrest you, correct. How did they find you, though, like, how do they know you're back?

Natalie 45:45
I was at a bus stop.

Scott Benner 45:47
Oh, go ahead

Natalie 45:48
that that boyfriend that came to Texas with me. I was at a bus stop, and I think we were yelling at each other, and a cop happened to see it. Is everybody, okay? Yeah,

Scott Benner 45:59
let me see some ID. And then they he calls the guy, and the guy goes, Yo, you got one? Yeah, basically, you there with your baby or your daughter? No,

Natalie 46:09
the whole situation, I didn't bring my daughter, necessarily, through all my drug use, because it goes on and off, on and off, on and off from the time my daughter, when we got back to Texas, of course, I had to be like, Dad, I need help get me, you know, save me. And his stipulation was, either you live here or your daughter lives here, you're both not living here. It's a It's weird. My dad, my dad's weird. That's a whole nother thing, trust me.

Scott Benner 46:37
Hey, Natalie, you're all give yourself some credit. You're all weird. Don't worry about it. I'm weird too, but in a different way. But go ahead,

Natalie 46:49
my sister had taken my daughter, well, I went to my dad's okay. So which my daughter probably has a terrific story for you and her her growing up, because that's so cool

Scott Benner 47:01
when you put her with the lady who gave you meth for the first time for a while. Yes,

Natalie 47:05
yes. See my sister when we got in trouble for, you know that mixer that I bought at Macy's, my sister went to prison for that. Get out of here, he didn't get her life together. Yeah, I think she did two years and when she got out of prison, she's completely changed her life like she didn't. I mean, she's had her hiccups here and there, but she's her life.

Scott Benner 47:26
She completely changed her life, except for that six months where she muelled And like, oh God, exactly.

Natalie 47:33
Let's say she she went, can't even explain it, because her situation was bad. They saw because she got into an abusive relationship, I'm sorry. But other other than that, like, as far as the drugs and stuff like that, she cleaned her life up from that part that was just like the dysfunction that happens behind closed doors, or was, until she got out of that. But at the time, I did,

Scott Benner 47:54
all right, so they pick you up at the by the way, I've never even been to a bit this is going to sound very like, I don't actually, is this bougie? I don't know if I've ever been to a bus stop.

Natalie 48:03
You know, I felt the same way. I felt the same way. I never even so at that time, I'm what, 26 and when I got back from Texas, that was the first time I ever had to ride a bus too. I didn't even know what to do, okay? I was like, what? Like, I had asked. I was like, Where do I put this money? Like, you don't put money in here. You need to go across the street and buy a bus ticket. I'm like, oh, okay, even

Scott Benner 48:27
the arguing in public Natalie, like, it wouldn't occur to me to do that. And if I started it, like, if I was with somebody and we were getting loud, somebody would be like, Hey, let's, you know we're in public. Like, let's stop. Like, I know that for sure. It's, it's just really interesting. So okay, what kind of jail do you do? Normal? That's a normal.

Natalie 48:45
Oh yeah, that's how normal people would respond.

Scott Benner 48:49
We're in public. We probably shouldn't be screaming at each other. I live my life under very basic rules, like, I don't do anything that would draw the cops attention. That's my rule. Like, don't, get arrested. I don't want to get arrested. I don't like the I very simple ideas about how to live a happy life. That's at the top of my list, honestly, yeah, yeah, yeah. My brother one time. He's great now, but he was like, a really, like, troubled little kid, like, and my parents were divorced, and, like, I get why, right? And I used to tell him, like, because I was young, I was like, Look, just don't do anything that. If a cop knew about it, they'd be upset about like, that's how I that when I was when I was 13. That's how I talked to my little brother, because it was, like, the clearest thing I could think of to help him. But how long do you go to jail for, though?

Unknown Speaker 49:36
So

Natalie 49:37
I ended up, when I went in to jail, they gave me no time served, meaning my house arrest didn't count, and the 15 days of work release and account so I did three months you

Scott Benner 49:49
owed the whole three months. Okay? And are you taking care of your diabetes at that point better?

Natalie 49:55
You know, I would. I would at least give me myself the long acting. And then I gave myself short acting based on if I if I do what I was going to eat. Well, I think I maybe protect my blood sugar once every few days, right? So for people

Scott Benner 50:09
who's who take, you know, care of the of their health, you know, their diabetes health, can you describe them? How much of a week did you think about diabetes? Like, I'm trying to, I'm trying to show that like, you know what I mean, zero, not at all. No, okay. Like, not at all. The idea that you'd be hurting your health. Ever pop into your head? No, no. But

Natalie 50:37
you also have to think at this time, I was on state assistance. I saw only a primary care doctor, and I, of course, was given only the cheapest insulin. And they okay, they would do my a, 1c never wanted to be like, okay, so you're at 11. You should probably bring that down a little bit.

Scott Benner 50:56
Did you have any understanding of what any of that meant, or what the repercussions were?

Natalie 51:00
I mean, I knew a little bit just like based on like, what my mom has said, I never knew like based on like experience, because my mom didn't have any complications until, like, her last year of death, when she lost her legs. I mean, that her legs, yeah, middle of COVID.

Scott Benner 51:20
How old was she when she passed? Uh,

Natalie 51:21
she was 67

Scott Benner 51:23
okay. Are you okay? Like, now, I

Natalie 51:28
am. I'm good. Now, you know, like, I've been on Omnipod now since I saw my first very endocrinologist at 35 really, 35 Yeah, 35 years old.

Unknown Speaker 51:41
So you know,

Scott Benner 51:42
you're the first person I've ever spoken to who I asked how old they were when they were diagnosed. You're like, I'm not 100% sure. Yeah,

Natalie 51:50
I don't there was no, I've never been hospitalized for my diabetes, like, what so ever. I didn't even know pumps were, like, a thing that, like, helped. I thought you had to buy them out of pocket. I didn't even know until my doctor was like, Hey, let's get you on a pump. I'm like, I can do that. They're like, Yeah, your insurance will cover it. I was like, Oh, I have that kind of insurance. I didn't even know

Scott Benner 52:12
I got fancy lady insurance. I

Natalie 52:14
know, I know my work gives me free something, but I didn't know it was like, this much free.

Scott Benner 52:18
Okay, so Natalie, let's stop for a second. When's the last time you were high at what age 37 All right, three years ago, and in the last three years, you've been taking very good care of yourself.

Natalie 52:31
Yes, yes, I've lost 65 pounds. My a 1c is 6.2 which is the lowest it's ever been for me. Wow, that's great. Yeah, I also just got married a month ago. Congratulations. Like Life is good for me. Now,

Scott Benner 52:49
it took a while. Is it fair to say we have a lot of life left, but is it fair to say that once you had clarity away from drugs and drinking that you were it was easier to take care of yourself?

Natalie 52:59
Oh, yeah, for sure, I still don't, Hey, God, I hate to say this. I hate being defined. Saying, Oh, I'm diabetic. Like, I I really don't like, just like, I don't like saying I'm an addict, you know, I feel like it puts a label on me. And I feel kind of just like, hey, I have this thing that, like, I can share my experience with you, and hopefully it'll help somebody else out. I try not to let even my diabetes run my life, but it does. It absolutely does now, because I care now, and since, you know, watching my mom die, it kind of put like this thing, like, just clicked in my head and it was like, Okay, so let's say the magic number for me, let's just say, in my family history is living 30 or how old was she? She was 17 years or longer than that. I don't even know how to do math. 2727 years. Yeah, 27 years of her having diabetes. What if I only have 27 years to live with diabetes? Like, I'm already out of, like, almost 20 of those. Like, I only got a few years left, and that's what clicked it off for me. I was like, I cannot do to my daughter what my mother did to me. I can't do it. You

Scott Benner 54:07
never once thought I'm using meth. What if I don't have a lot of time left? People with the who use meth don't live very long. Like it was this, like, you get clarity from the drugs, clarity from drinking. Saw your mom pass away and still said to yourself, I might not have a lot of time left. I don't want my daughter to feel the way I feel right now.

Natalie 54:29
Wow, yeah, geez, people, I had gone to COVID and I was pissed off, and it didn't kill me, really. And that's when I got clean. Yeah, I woke up one day and I literally, like, I literally took the bag of drugs that we had just gotten that we couldn't do because we were so freaking sick. I jumped down this toilet and I was like, I was done. It's like, I'm done. People

Scott Benner 54:47
say COVID was bad, but it stopped you from doing

Natalie 54:53
Yeah, yeah. I was pissed. I tried it a couple times. Just couldn't

Scott Benner 54:56
you literally woke up and you thought, Jesus Christ, am I still alive? Yeah,

Natalie 55:00
yes,

Scott Benner 55:00
I guess I ought to pull this together then, yeah, damn. That's ridiculous. Like, I don't mean ridiculous. Like, do you know what I mean? Like, I

Natalie 55:09
like, that's what it took. Yeah, it's

Scott Benner 55:11
ridiculous. That that's what happened where you're like, okay, I'm good. Now I'll stop. Yeah, Jesus, huh? Walking down the street, I passed 50 people. How many of them are doing meth that I'm not aware of it? Oh,

Natalie 55:24
I don't know. I mean, in a way, probably a lot of people think about all the people that abuse Adderall. It's very similar. You can live a double life with it. You really could, like, the when I was doing meth in my 30s, like, most recently, before I got clean, like nobody would have known that's a double life. I kept my corporate job. I actually I had a side business doing Turo. I mean, I would flip cars. I'm buying and selling like I

Scott Benner 55:50
got two streams income over here, Scott. I got one that pays the bills and one pays for the menu. Yeah. Well, to pay for that, yeah,

Natalie 55:56
exactly. How

Scott Benner 55:58
old your daughter now? She's

Natalie 55:58
going to be 21 in a couple weeks. All

Scott Benner 56:01
right, has she used, is she an alcoholic, anything like that, or does she, like, run the complete opposite direction? To you? So far from what

Natalie 56:09
I know of, she ran the complete opposite direction. However, I see a lot of the same behaviors where that switch could flip on her. Like, it could totally click in at any time for her, but I've never had to deal with her. Like, what does that answer? Anything that like, I've never, she's never, like, been in trouble for it. Well, she's always kept a job, she was in school, like she was a decent person, a human being, so far,

Scott Benner 56:38
if I described so, look, this is, this is, this is the less fun part of my job. You're very much like you described your mom, like, great when our great problem, when I'm a problem. And if we, if I get your daughter over here and I read that aces list to her, how many of those things do you think she's going to say, Yeah, I grew up with that stuff. Absolutely,

Natalie 56:57
at 100% all of them, however, the little flip with that is is that while my sister had my daughter when nobody knew there was all that physical abuse going on in that household, that's what most of her childhood is going to be like. The only reason like my daughter C when I let my my sister take care of my daughter because I thought she was going to be in a better situation, my daughter was told that me and her dad didn't want her. I was told that she didn't want to come home and live with me. So when I found out that there was actual physical abuse, or just abuse in general, going on in that house, she didn't have a choice anymore, and I wiped her off and she came to live with me. She didn't have a choice. So

Scott Benner 57:38
your sister decided to tell you one thing while telling your daughter another thing, because she thought that your daughter was better off with her, and that was making you think that your daughter didn't want to be with you, but then you found out that there was abuse between your sister and her spouse, and then you use that to extract your daughter,

Natalie 57:59
correct? Yeah. So my my daughter, has probably been more witnessed to the kind of views that you see on, like, lifetime TV, right? You know, like the men abusing the wife and the children, than I ever did growing up. You know what I mean? I witnessed the views happening, which was my mom was, like, drunk and crazy and wild, you know. And it was totally different kind of abuse, like this ban was the kind of abuse that and he's a band that didn't drink or do drugs like he's just a mad, angry person type abuse. Did

Scott Benner 58:28
he abuse your daughter like hit her little bit, little bits have

Natalie 58:32
come out of some of the things he's done. As time goes on, she's gotten more open about what's gotten on in that household. I don't think he physically abused her. He almost had a couple times Okay, and my sister would jump in. If

Scott Benner 58:47
you were your daughter, what would you want from you? I was my daughter. What would you want from you? Like, yeah,

Natalie 58:55
stay the way I am now. Okay? I would hope so. Anyways,

Scott Benner 59:02
you think you can do that?

Natalie 59:03
I do think I can do that. You know, there's, of course, there's no 100% guarantees. But I also think, given the tools of, you know, like a a sponsorship therapy, you know, keeping a job, you know, doing things like with my fitness, you know, I decided to become a personal trainer on the side. You know, like, constantly improving myself is only going to keep me, like, doing better. Yeah.

Scott Benner 59:28
Do you have any other autoimmune issues? Do you have Hashimotos or anything like that? I do. I do. I thought you did? Your mom have it too? You want to

Natalie 59:37
get into medical history? Oh my gosh, my mom. Yeah, she has the diabetes. She just had an under active thyroid. My dad actually had thyroid cancer when he was 15, and had his thyroid review. And my sister had Hashimotos, and then she also got thyroid cancer, and then she also has a heart condition. And

Scott Benner 59:55
Ms, you guys manage the thyroid well. I mean. Know, I mean, you do the blood work every six months and stuff like that.

Natalie 1:00:05
I do. I do. I feel like, I mean, if you really want to get into, like, the healthcare part of it, I really think that there could be more done. I do watch what I eat, because I do notice that, like, what I eat, not just the diabetes. I get inflamed, and I learned recently about flare ups and Hashimotos. Like, I didn't even know that was a thing,

Scott Benner 1:00:23
like your TSH, maybe spikes goes up higher and, yeah, yeah.

Natalie 1:00:29
They're like, Oh, you're having a flare up. I'm like, what does that mean? What is this? I didn't even know. Do

Scott Benner 1:00:35
you keep your TSH, is there a number you keep it at? Or do they just tell you it's in range?

Natalie 1:00:40
They just tell me it's in range. I don't actually know what my my numbers are. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:00:44
we would like to see it under two. But the reason I bring it up is because the inflammation from the autoimmune in general, right? And then a thyroid, you know, anxiety, other I mean, you can look through everything that kind of comes with with Hashimotos when it's unregulated, some of the things you described could be related to that. I mean, people who have autoimmune issues are now finding, like, a lot of value with GLP medications, right? But GLP medications at the same time are also being talked about, about reducing people's other addictions. And you just kind of, like, start wondering about, like, what's all in the soup? You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. I would start by making sure your thyroid, like, I'm trying to think of ways to give yourself, like, long term success so you can be the person you want to be, and your daughter gets the mom she, you know, deserves, and all that stuff. Like, like, I would talk to your doctor and say, Look, I want to know what my TSH is, and if it's under like two 2.1 or if it's over two 2.1 I'd like to maybe ramp up my medication a little bit to bring it under, to see if I have any alleviation of symptoms. I have more mental clarity, energy, like all these little things that impact people, you know, yeah, Jeez, what made you want to come on the podcast? Well, first

Natalie 1:02:00
it was, hey, that's cool. And then, like, I listened to other people's story, I was like, Yeah, I can relate, like, all those after dark ones I'm totally obsessed with, because those are my people. I get them also. I think a real part of me saying this person who I have become is also about sharing my story, okay, you know, and the way I felt I could relate to other people, hopefully somebody else can relate to me. And there's so many people on that Facebook group, I mean, it'll just reach out more friendships, yeah, and I think that's actually how it started at this because somebody had made a comment about having to go to jail and being diabetic. I was like, Hey, let me tell you what it was. Blah, was like. They made sure I stayed alive. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:02:45
I was gonna say, were you actually taking care of yourself? And, like, what was that three months like with diabetes? So when

Natalie 1:02:51
I was in tent city, it was because everybody got taken into, like, the doctor, the healthcare area twice a day, once in the morning, once at night. So that's when I would go so they would test my blood sugar, they gave me the long acting insulin once a day, and then they would give me the short acting based on what my blood sugar is. But before they would test your blood sugar once, then they made you drink a liter of water, wait 15 minutes, and then they test you again, and then they would no steer insulin based on that. Yeah, they can't be alive also, yeah, they kept us alive. Yeah, yeah. And it was, like the middle of summer in Arizona, and it was just warm. I mean, that was the least of

Scott Benner 1:03:33
you wait the condos you're in on air conditioned. What's going on? So

Natalie 1:03:38
10 city is literally army tent. Yeah, you sleep outside. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:03:42
Tell people about it, please. Yeah.

Natalie 1:03:44
So, I mean, they've taken it down now, which I guess is good, I don't know, but you literally, it's like a dirt, rock area, and there's, think there might have been, like eight tents in this chain link fence that I was in, and then under each tent. And you know that they're the big army tents that roll up on the sides and everything. Yeah, there's one big, giant fan that pushes air through one side to the other. And I think there was, honestly, there might have been 12 months. I could be wrong on a number per tent. Yeah, there, I want to say there's about 12. There might have been less than that for 10, and it was considered like, people who went to 10, I had to fight with a sergeant to get out to tent city, because you get less time. You'll get, like, two for ones, just for being out there. And you get to work,

Scott Benner 1:04:31
if you're willing to be incarcerated in the tent, it shortens your time because it's correct. It extra sucks, yes,

Natalie 1:04:38
and because you get put to work. You know, you go you go to food for inside the jail. You could be put on the chain gang. You get to work with the animals. But I wasn't allowed to do any of that stuff because of my diabetes. So I gotta rake rocks. Like, literally, I just raked rocks. I literally took a rake, walked up and down. Was this. Usually punishment, like, if you had your shirt on top, you had to break the rocks. But that's what I did to keep myself busy. I just break the rocks. That

Scott Benner 1:05:07
was your day. That was my day. What goes through your head? What do you think about with all that free time? How good I

Natalie 1:05:13
felt, these clean, really clarity. I could go I could go to sleep and sleep. Well, I could take a nap whenever I wanted it with, well, I mean, it was hot, but, I mean, you sleep. I had so much anxiety when I had to go home, because I knew it would just start up again. I knew it

Scott Benner 1:05:30
what would start up again by using okay, even though I knew it so you were, you were better off raking rocks in tent city than you were going to be when you got home. Yeah,

Natalie 1:05:41
it was kind of like Girl Scout camp, like, it's not, like, it sounds stupid, but, I mean, you got a lot of people in there that were, like, it was a lot of DUI. So, you know, you had your nurses, you had teachers, you had your moms. You know, it wasn't, it wasn't like hardcore criminals, if you know what. I mean, it was people who made mistakes and that have lives on the outside. Well, you could hear about other people's lives. You get, I don't know, you met some cool people. Of course there, there were some that were, I don't know, you could tell which ones were the tweakers, but I don't fit in with those, because I had this like, I didn't fit in with what they looked like or even how they acted. So it wasn't a tweaker, like, person, even though I did it so interesting, I know it is weird.

Scott Benner 1:06:25
Is the thought I have anxiety because I know I'm going to go home and do drugs again, or are you planning on doing them? Like, are you standing there going, Oh my God, I feel great, but I know, and I leave here, this is what I'm going to do. Like, did it feel like a decision you were making or a thing that was going to happen to you.

Natalie 1:06:41
I didn't get out. Of course, I didn't get out thinking, Oh, I can't wait to go, you trust I'm just going to go, you drugs, call everybody that I used to hang out with. I think it was just more of like that depression, of knowing I was like, stuck and I didn't know how to get out of it. You know, at that time, in my early 20s or mid 20s, I didn't know how to keep a job at all, like my anxiety was so off the charts. I didn't even know how to talk to people, like, if people used to come up and talk to me like I would cry, like I used to not even be able to get gas in my car without somebody being with because I was so scared all the time. And that definitely stems from my childhood, for sure, why? So I don't know. I was just always so scared, like, even in school, if a teacher would call on me, like it would take everything in me to not shake and cry, because I just didn't want to talk. It was crazy.

Scott Benner 1:07:33
So I think the idea is, if you grow up around alcoholism, there's this feeling that something's always about to, like, happen, and you kind of can't tell when it's going to happen.

Natalie 1:07:46
Yeah, you're like, in this constant fight or flight mode, yeah, yeah. I remember going to sleep as a child that was like that,

Scott Benner 1:07:54
just waiting for the other shoe to drop, like, when? When's this gonna happen? Like, and then how do so, if I stay quiet, maybe it won't happen. Or if I'm quiet, maybe they won't see me when it's happening.

Natalie 1:08:05
So I think it's more of like they won't see me. Okay, so

Scott Benner 1:08:09
once those people go back crazy, if I'm not on the radar, maybe I get through this unscath, yes, right, exactly. And that sticks with you as an

Natalie 1:08:18
adult, for sure. Even now I'm like, okay, like, I don't know, just like everybody around me and like, what I do, it'd be like, Okay, I'm just going to get a little bit further in my seat. Just stay here, do my time, go home, as long as nobody knows what I'm doing. We're good. Like, no news is good news.

Scott Benner 1:08:35
How does it work at work, though, when you're at like, a corporate job, like, you don't have those feelings there. I

Natalie 1:08:41
don't anymore. I've really, I've been promoted three times already, like, since this job, like, what I am doing is being seen and I'm being heard. And kind of crazy, how much I've come out of my skin. But I also think that, like, how much, like, I have grown like, even talking to you this would, I would have never even been willing to do this years ago, but with me, like I lived in the halfway house on an Well, actually, mostly on for about four years. I stayed there because it was comfortable. And in that return, I had to get a job, and I had to learn how to like function in life, and that's what made me all of a sudden grow up. I didn't become an adult until my late 20s. I still feel like I'm probably, maybe like, 3031, I'm probably at the same, like, you know, like, financially, I'm probably the same as somebody in the early 30s. Okay,

Scott Benner 1:09:28
I was just looking here while you were talking growing up with alcoholic parents. Have significant, lasting effects on child's development. Some ways are you can have emotional and physical effects, like increased anxiety or stress, depression, low self esteem. We didn't talk about your self esteem. Is it something that's been better over recently, or has it always been okay?

Natalie 1:09:48
I'm sure I've always had really low self esteem. I kind of feel especially younger, younger I definitely did. And since I've been an adult, like, since I've been to jail, like, when it comes to my physical appearance. When I went to jail, if you want to feel good about yourself, go take a shower with 50 other women. You realize that everybody has beautiful bodies, like in their own way. Or you're like, holy crap, my body looks great compared to her. And I know that's that's awful to say, but like,

Scott Benner 1:10:16
it's true, jail showers made you feel good about yourself.

Natalie 1:10:19
Absolutely. I was like, wow, I don't have any stretch marks. I've had a kid. Did you know what I mean? Like, oh, I got a little pooch. Like, you know what I mean? When you prepare yourself, I'm like, Okay, I'm not doing

Scott Benner 1:10:33
nobody cares either, right? Exactly,

Natalie 1:10:35
yeah. But when you think about self esteem, sometimes, like, when it comes to like, even, like, with me applying for jobs, and these corporate jobs that I've worked for, and I work for the big international company, it's like, do you tell them about your past? Because it's going to come up in a in a background check. Like, how honest Do you want to be? Or how honest do you need? So far, I've been completely honest, have

Scott Benner 1:10:59
you really? And how's that gone? Because meth is a thing I would think would just turn people right off.

Natalie 1:11:04
Most people have been very supportive, like, Wow. I would never guess that is crazy. I want to hear a story. You know, I'm not always willing to tell them a story unless they actually ask something specific. I do know my current boss right now comes from law enforcement, and so for her to immediately flip the switch of always, which I I knew about the conversation I had with her, she was very judgy of people with criminal backgrounds, right? For knowing me has completely changed,

Scott Benner 1:11:38
you know, so having these conversations has helped me a lot too. Yeah, that's why I'm always sort of just looking for, like, how did that happen? Or like, you didn't ever think this way or that? Like, why not? I wonder. Like, not like, why didn't you? But like, I wonder why you didn't. And, you know, like, yeah, it's just, it's a different way of thinking about it. By the way, behavioral and social effects difficulty with relationships. Children of Alcoholics struggle distrust, and they find it challenging to form healthy, stable relationships. You, of course, are at an increased risk of substance abuse. Yourself having behavioral issues, having academic struggles, which I think happened, didn't really have an opportunity to happen to you because you were doing well right up until you weren't at school. But you know, there's your point. Once it happens, you're in trouble, physical health neglect, developmental delays, chronic stress and poor living conditions can lead to delays in physical and emotional development. Long term, some children of alcoholics may develop a strong drive to over achieve or to be perfect and attempt to gain approval or avoid the chaos associated with their parents. Addiction. Many children of alcoholics caretaker role, feeling responsible for their parents well being, which can eventually lend lead to burnout and resentment. That's not going to end up it sounds like that might happen to your sister, actually? Yeah, absolutely, yeah. But increased resilience, despite the challenges, some children develop strong coping mechanisms and resilience that may they may become highly independent, resourceful and empathetic, though these traits often come at a cost of their own emotional well being. Sound like you? Yeah, absolutely, yeah. About that, well, don't make a baby if you're drinking a lot,

Natalie 1:13:12
because no more babies. For me, I'm

Scott Benner 1:13:14
talking to everybody else. You're 25 right now, and you're like, I just drink through the weekend. Now's not the time to start a family. Maybe because 40 years from now, whoever I am, 40 years from now, is going to be talking to your kid going tell me what your mom did. And, you know, very avoidable. Natalie, lately, I've been really overwhelmed with how avoidable so many of the stories I hear are, whether it's health and, you know, just having a doctor who understood a little better or took five more minutes, or you know that, or if it's, you know, a parent who, you know, doesn't make a baby when impregnated during an FBI raid. Because we can all just make these very avoidable decisions, like how much differently other people's lives turn out. It sucks that when you're 19, you don't have the ability to know your 21 year old daughter. Because if you were 19 on Christmas morning and you felt that love that you have for your kid right now, and this guy was like, hey, you know what we should do? You'd be like, hey, you know what? Get a condom buddy, because I don't want to disappoint this little girl that I love so much. I mean, I know it sounds ridiculous, but in my mind, like lately, I've just been I just, I keep hearing stories and thinking just if you just would have zigged when you zagged, or if somebody would have given you a chance, or, you know, a parent would have done a halfway decent job for you. Yeah, you know, you wouldn't hear all these stories anyway. You're bumming me. The out is what I'm saying. No, I'm really, I've been sincerely, a gum I'm really happy that you, that you chose to share the story as much as you think. Like, my story is I went to jail, you know what I mean, like, and I had diabetes. Like, I don't think that's the story at all. I think the story is that. You're, you know, two probably well meaning, lovely alcoholic, 20 year olds, you know, had you 40 years ago? Yeah, that's just kind of how I see it. But anyway, yeah, absolutely. How was this for you? Any good? It was cool. I liked it. Did you good? I'm glad. How do I do because I'm always afraid that I'm gonna, like, straddle the line on the wrong side when I'm trying to have these conversations.

Natalie 1:15:25
No, you gotta, you gotta ask the the tough, the tough questions. Thank

Scott Benner 1:15:29
you. I appreciate that. Like, the fact,

Natalie 1:15:31
the fact that you're like, uh, like, why? Like, you realize it just doesn't seem normal,

Scott Benner 1:15:38
you know, like, it's funny. Like,

Natalie 1:15:39
you do realize this, right? Yeah, you're

Scott Benner 1:15:42
hearing what you're saying, aren't you? Like, I God, I can't think of the one is recently it went up. You maybe, you know, because I think you listen to these. I stopped in the middle and I said, Hey, PSA, don't let a guy who lives in a van get you pregnant. Like, I was like, I was like, I don't know. I didn't realize that needed to be said, okay, but punch him in the face and roll Yeah? And I wonder if you realize, or people who find themselves in the situation you've been in over the years, if you knew that like 50 people like me heard your story, it's where it feels like nobody cares about each other, right? Like people who end up growing up in your situation say nobody cares, nobody understands, and people who aren't in your situation are like, You ought to, like, take some personal responsibility and get out of this, not understanding. I mean, it's why I read the ACES list. It's not personal under it's not, I mean, it's not you not taking control. Somebody dug a hole 20 feet deep and then put a trap door in the bottom of it, then dropped a baby in it. That baby was you, and said, Hey, see if you can climb out of this hole. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. The people I'm gonna give you to help are a lady who pulls knives on people, drinks a lot, does drugs, a guy who's doing better than her but isn't doing that much better than her. Don't worry, though, one day, her sister will help her by giving her meth, like this baby's not getting out of this hole. Yeah, you know what I mean? And those are the people like You're like the worst episode of Dora, the Explorer, like your monkeys high. You know what I mean? It's a backpack that's drunk and a monkey on meth trying to help you get through the jungle. And you're like, and they're like, oh, no, no, we ain't getting you out of here. You nailed it. So you're in this you're a baby in a terrible situation. And by the way, the people who raised you very well could have been babies in terrible situations at one point. Yeah, someone's got to stand up and push the guy in the van off of them, like work. And I'm not saying it's up to women to make good like, you know, it's up to guys to make good decisions. Like, people just need to make better decisions in pivotal moments. And then all these very unavoidable things don't happen, absolutely. But it's not what happens Natalie and then in the end, it becomes, you know, it's every four years time to run for president, and so we all spend two and a half years talking about the things leading up to the Jesus. It feels like somebody's always running for president, but people have these conversations in their real lives, and somehow always boil it down to, well, they should take personal responsibility. Well, yeah, they should. But what are you going to do? Like the baby's in the bottom of the hole and you're yelling down to it, take personal responsibility. Yeah, it's true. Yeah. I don't know what to do. What if we just said nobody could have a baby for like, five years? Do you think that would give everybody time to reset or something? I don't know.

Natalie 1:18:38
You know, I really feel like the newer generation is having babies less and less.

Scott Benner 1:18:42
Yeah, but that's not good either. We're gonna run out of people,

Natalie 1:18:46
because the ones that are having babies are the ones that shouldn't be having babies,

Scott Benner 1:18:50
even if you say like, you ever noticed this? But this is gonna sound very generalized, and if you're a person with a lot of kids, I'm not talking just please try not to get upset. You ever noticed that people who are like all like, wow, they really do seem to have it together. And they really are doing well. Those people have one or two kids, and then, like, the guy who's got, like, a sign on their front yard that says something very strange that you drive by every day and go, like, I hope that guy doesn't shoot me. Like, he seems to have seven people, like children, and you're just like, how are we even gonna, like, rebalance this? Like, I just need a couple of common sense people to make some babies. I don't know. It's just very strange. I don't know how any of this gets fixed for you personally or for like, because now your daughter's 21 the real hope here is that your daughter waits to have a baby until she's sorted through all of her crap. Yes, that's pretty much all we that's what we should all be doing, not just people who are your kid, but my kids should do the same thing. Everybody. Just get through your before you bring someone else into your mess. You don't mean exactly super simple. Yes. Yes, but I don't know. It's hard to do. It just really, I don't know, you go to a party and my guy's a pretty girl. Next thing you know, you're like, we could probably have a baby, and you're too young to know what's wrong with you still. You know what I mean? Took you to 37 to figure out what you needed to fix. Yeah, I had problems I didn't know about my it took my wife being like, hey, that stuff's not okay. And I'm like, Oh my God, she's right, but I actually had to listen to her and then, like, work over and over again at trying to, like, level that stuff out. And then she had do the same and and we still had kids too early, so my kids are going to have problems that were avoidable if we would have waited longer. But I don't know. I don't know the answer to any of this. I'm just talking, but, yeah, sucks. You know what I mean? Like, I just feel, I feel better. It

Natalie 1:20:48
also, it kind of probably sucks. Also, being your position, hearing all these things about other people, and you're constantly, like, with the what the like, all the time. You know, I'm

Scott Benner 1:20:59
also tired today. I'd

Natalie 1:21:00
be able to do it. I just feel like, yeah, it's like, it is what it is, you know, what? What can I do? I just make it better, you know, try to help the next one. You know, let's I had a very

Scott Benner 1:21:11
long weekend, and it's funny, because I think if I told you what I did this weekend, you'd be like, if I got that much effort out of my parents spread out over 10 years, I would have been okay. Arden came home from college end of her sophomore year, and took her a while, and then she's like, I don't want to go back there. Here are my reasons, and some of her reasons were very, very poor direction from staff at the school. I am gonna, at some point tell the story of like, something that a teacher said to her that will absolutely anybody who's paid for five minutes worth of college, it will just lure you. Oh, and she's like, I I'm gonna change directions. You know, took her a while to, like, get up the courage to even tell us that. Then she told us, but so she's starting up at a new college next month or next week. Excuse me, but we had until next Monday to get her stuff out of her her place 700 miles from here. Oh, on Friday after Arden got sick last week. So our last week was we came home from vacation. Arden got very sick. My father in law passed away. We went to his funeral. Three days later, we had to get into a car and drive 700 miles to go pick up her stuff, but she was still sick. Oh, so she and I drove that time. She drove in one car because we needed both cars to bring it back. I drove in another one. We left our house at six o'clock on Friday, drove until like two in the morning, got a hotel room, slept, got up at eight o'clock, drove eight and a half more hours, got there, had dinner, went to sleep, got up at 5am packed her car up, and drove back home. Oh my Yeah. So I've driven 1400 miles in the last 48 hours or so, wow. And I'm I'm tired. And then on the way home last night, there was this horrible rainstorm on the East Coast. And so for about three hours last night, I was white knuckle driving, not able to see five feet in front of me. Oh, gosh. Now on top of that, knowing the knowledge of like, every decision I made my daughter was behind me in a car, like, counting on me not to run into something or hit something, yeah, and so it was horrible. I mean, I'm not kidding like I've been alive a long time. It's the worst, worst weather I've ever driven in my life. And we got home, decompressed, fell asleep, I woke up. When I woke up, my son was like, Don't forget, you have to take me. I'm like, Oh my God. Like, I so I'm like, getting dressed, I take him to this thing, I get home, and then I ate two eggs, and now I'm talking to you, dang. I feel like I'm doing a bad job today. I don't know if I am, but I don't feel as clear as I want to be to have this conversation with you. Well, do you at least get a rest after this? Arden has a doctor's appointment she has to be at in three hours that I'm taking her to. Oh, in between there, I have nothing to do,

Natalie 1:24:02
go take a nap. But

Scott Benner 1:24:04
am I wrong? Like, if we got into a time machine and went back and you said, Mom, Dad, I need you to drive with me 1400 miles, round trip in two days to help me with something. Do you think your parents would be like, Yeah, let's go at this stage. Absolutely no. How about back then, back then 20 years ago, maybe, maybe, like, if

Natalie 1:24:25
I wasn't, like, an attitude, like, I think so, okay, yeah, only because there's, there's been a couple times where my parents had driven, taken a few trips to go save my sister in a different state, type thing, you know, like, or try and change her situation around. When she wasn't doing well, they put a lot of effort in my sister. Yeah, I think they just kind of backed off with me being like, we can't save her. Oh,

Scott Benner 1:24:48
it's interesting, though, isn't it, to watch people who are so steeped in a problem that even though they want to and I would believe that, I would believe that your parents love you and care about you, and why. Want to do something good for you, when you don't know what that means, and you're put into that situation, then the help you give is often it's help on that level. It's not the kind of help. It's actually going to get you out of a thing, correct? Do you think that you actually needed the legal trouble to break free of all this? Absolutely? Yeah, everyone, 100%

Natalie 1:25:20
absolutely being even though I was at a very limited capacity on being a good mother, as soon as I became a mother, it changed everything to me, like she is the blessing I didn't know I needed in my life. You know, a lot of the expenses that her life. You know, unfortunately for her, she's had to deal with a lot of trauma and pain that she didn't deserve, but she saved my life. She gave me a reason to want to be better and to do better. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:25:50
it's got to be something. I mean, it's part of the human condition. It just has to be, because the amount of people who will tell me all the time like, you know, I didn't really take good care of my diabetes until I had a baby, or wanted to have a baby, or met this girl, and I knew like I wanted to be married and have a family, and so I had to do this thing. Like everyone, every adult who struggled through their teens, early 20s, with their diabetes, who no longer does, has some version of that story. I mean, not everyone, a lot of them, you know what? I mean, like some version of, uh, I couldn't do it for me, but I was able to do it for somebody else. Yeah, that's that story, and that is what happened to you with but with drugs instead. Yeah, diabetes, absolutely. And then your diabetes care came along after you were clear and you felt better. Yeah, got it all right, yep. Well, I appreciate you doing this with me and for laying that out like that, because I believe more people than we would want to think are in your situation.

Natalie 1:26:53
Yeah, unfortunate, yeah, but yeah. Well, thanks for having me, though. Are

Scott Benner 1:26:57
you kidding me? Thanks for having me. You don't send a note about Tent City and jail and meth. I think a guy

Natalie 1:27:05
already get more into the tent city thing. I know a lot of people are really excited to hear about that. I mean, kind of hard to talk about. Also, you know what? I mean, it's like what you see like on TV and what you hear about and read about, that's how it was. Yeah, you know,

Scott Benner 1:27:20
listen, I don't think anybody listening doesn't hear 10 city and can't fill in the blanks. You know what? I mean? Yeah, I mean, you're arrested for something. It's not nothing. I'm not saying it's nothing, but you know, it's not it's more socially acceptable. Well, you didn't commit a crime with a grand gun, you didn't hurt anybody, like, that kind of stuff, like, right? So you're gonna go to jail, and rightfully so. That's fine outside in Arizona in a

Natalie 1:27:43
tent with a fan. Yeah, that's the part that's crazy about it. Yeah, no,

Scott Benner 1:27:47
it's insane, right? And, and you said you lost weight. Did you lose weight there?

Natalie 1:27:51
What the 65 pounds? Yeah, no, I lost, I lost that when I decided to get so then the last three years, that

Scott Benner 1:27:58
was the sober that being sober helped you with that. Yeah? Okay, yeah. Geez, you're in a good relationship now I am good for you. Excellent. Look at you. Yeah, you know I thought I was gonna say goodbye, but I wanted to reiterate, as crazy as this has all been, and God bless you, it's been crazy this story. You're only 40, you know what I mean? Yeah, I know you're only four. I know you're laughing because you're like, I know I've lived like, 17 lives, but like, but you're only 40. Your daughter is only 21 there's a real world. I mean, it's been three years. You've been clean. There's a real world where five or 10 years from now, this all just seems like a distant memory.

Natalie 1:28:35
It already does seem like a distance memory, like, I have a hard time believing a lot of the stuff that I did and I went through, like, Was that really me? Like, but I can't forget it. I don't want to, I don't want to forget how horrible I felt, the depression that came with it, the sadness, the loss of hope. That's the part I

don't want to forget. Yeah, you felt, hope, you know, but like, it's like, I I stole cars. Like,

who does that? No, I mean people. I mean, that's kind of cool at the same time, like I stole cars, like I got a mixer. I mean, you

Scott Benner 1:29:15
can see it's so crazy that you can see it from both perspectives. You're like, who would steal a person's car? This is horrible. And how cool is it that I stole a car

Natalie 1:29:24
exactly. I mean, who's gonna do that?

Unknown Speaker 1:29:26
I mean,

Scott Benner 1:29:27
I take your point while you're saying I was, like, you have now you have a foot in both sides. But like, yeah, how interesting. It'll be really interesting to see how you talk about it 10 more years from now. You know what I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah. If you'll keep changing, if you'll be able to stay, like one foot on both sides of understanding of this, or if, as time passes and you are, quote, unquote normal for longer living a normal life, if you won't look back more harshly on it as time goes by. Oh, yeah, okay. Probably. Okay, interesting. All right, Natalie, I'm just say thank you, because I feel like I could talk to you forever, and it's not fair to anybody, because, you know, it's getting long. Thank you very, very much for doing this. Would you hold on for one second for me? Yeah, thanks.

A huge thanks to a long time sponsor touched by type one. Please check them out on Facebook, Instagram and at touched by type one.org. If you're looking to support an organization that's supporting people with type one diabetes, check out touched by type one. You can use the same continuous glucose monitor that Arden uses. All you have to do is go to dexcom.com/juicebox, and get started today. That's right. The Dexcom g7 is sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox podcast. I can't thank you enough for listening. Please make sure you're subscribed or following in your audio app. I'll be back tomorrow with another episode of The Juicebox podcast. You

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