contact us

Use the form on the right to contact us.

You can edit the text in this area, and change where the contact form on the right submits to, by entering edit mode using the modes on the bottom right.​

         

123 Street Avenue, City Town, 99999

(123) 555-6789

email@address.com

 

You can set your address, phone number, email and site description in the settings tab.
Link to read me page with more information.

Screenshot 2023-03-12 at 2.41.02 PM.png

Podcast Episodes

The Juicebox Podcast is from the writer of the popular diabetes parenting blog Arden's Day and the award winning parenting memoir, 'Life Is Short, Laundry Is Eternal: Confessions of a Stay-At-Home Dad'. Hosted by Scott Benner, the show features intimate conversations of living and parenting with type I diabetes.

Filtering by Category: Dexcom

#495 Hilary is Trying to Kill Me

Scott Benner

Hilary is the mom of a young child living with type 1 diabetes.

You can always listen to the Juicebox Podcast here but the cool kids use: Apple Podcasts/iOS - Spotify - Amazon MusicGoogle Play/Android - iHeart Radio -  Radio PublicAmazon Alexa or wherever they get audio.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT


DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:10
Hello friends and welcome to Episode 495 of the Juicebox Podcast. Today's show is with Hillary, and Hillary is trying to kill me. She wanted to come on the show, then she recorded this episode, and it was terrific. And then she sent me an email and said, I don't think I did a good job. Please don't let anybody hear it. And then months later sent me another email and said, I changed my mind. You could let people hear it. I was like Hilary, I've already deleted your episode, it's gone. But I found it on a backup server backup server. It was backed up somewhere, way, way back. And I'm delighted to bring it to you now. Please remember while you're listening, not to try to kill me, and that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise. Please always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. or becoming bold with insulin. Hillary Hillary Hillary this show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries g vo hype open, Find out more at G Vogue glucagon.com forward slash juice box. The show is also sponsored today by the Contour Next One blood glucose meter. It is incredibly accurate, easy to hold easy to use as a super bright light. I'm going to tell you more about it later. For now just know this, you can find out more about it get started. See if you're eligible for a free meter at Contour Next one.com forward slash juice box. I want to give you a tiny bit of context for this episode before it starts. Hillary came on to talk about how her child eats with Type One Diabetes, it was going to be part of the how we eat series. But when it was over, Joking aside from earlier, she just felt like she didn't do a good job of explaining. But I just really loved the episode. And you know you don't make a good conversation. trumps everything else for me. I thought it was a great episode. She wasn't happy about it in so much as how she described their eating style. So this is not part of the how we eat series. But it is a really great episode of the podcast. And Hillary. I forgive you for trying to kill me.

Hilary 2:46
I'm Hillary. I'm married. We live in Southern California. And we have two children. One is five and one is three. And Joan is a type one diabetic.

Scott Benner 2:58
What do you do for a living? Because you've never used zoom before? That's for sure.

Hilary 3:02
Do I have used zoom before? I am not working right now. But I am I'm I'm teaching kindergarten right now. So are you really not not by choice? not by choice? Oh, California, I'm being forced to teach kindergarten.

Scott Benner 3:22
deputized your major teachers. I'll be right that. No, that's so how many kids do you have in total? to two? And that's it forever? To forever? I feel like that's a smart move. Which one has type one? Joe and she just turned three last week. Wow. Okay, when was she diagnosed?

Hilary 3:43
She was diagnosed when she was 11 months.

Scott Benner 3:45
Who is she named after? Because that's a very traditional name.

Hilary 3:50
Oh, you know what, just, she's Nate. We have a Joan in the family. But we just really liked it. We both were it was hard to agree on a name. And with my son. We went back and forth and with with her. My husband said, you know, how about john? I was like, Yeah, let's do that. Let's just, and we didn't mess with it. I mean, if you agree on something, I feel like you know, just go with it.

Scott Benner 4:11
So I need to know, if you didn't have to make this decision along with somebody else. What would John's name be? Did you have one picked out that he couldn't agree with and vice versa?

Hilary 4:22
No, no, no. Well, he was thinking about Ruby, but I think I that wasn't a name that I really liked. But no, it's just it was just easy. We just both thought you know, Joe,

Scott Benner 4:34
I think Ruby is a woman who sang in a 90 minute 19 speakeasy somewhere. Well,

Hilary 4:40
it's like country music. My husband likes country music. So anyway, I did

Scott Benner 4:49
this down if they like country music, it's fine. I'm just joking. I'm really just trying to say stupid stuff to loosen you up so we can start talking about the diabetes. Yeah. So how old again? Was she when she was diagnosed? 11 months, 11 months that's really young.

Unknown Speaker 5:07
So Young,

Scott Benner 5:08
are you would you describe yourself as just on the emotional edge or things going? Okay.

Hilary 5:14
Um, I would say they're going okay, now most days, but I don't think I mean, I was actually just perusing pictures while I was waiting for you to call. And I was looking back, so I couldn't remember because he's looping. I was like, I wouldn't I couldn't remember when she started looping. And so I was looking back at pictures. And I was just seeing pictures from that time that first year when she was really young. And my son, you know, was just turning four when she was when she had been diagnosed. And it was just really hectic and hard. The first I was crying, like, all the time. Yeah. And it was just I remember driving one time somewhere, and I was just like, I should not be driving like this is, you know, because I hadn't slept it was just out of control.

Scott Benner 5:58
I so I think, what's yours? What do you say? I said, I think my life was similar to yours back then.

Hilary 6:06
Yeah, I mean, I really appreciate you being so open about like, just going, you said that you went up to your, when your wife brought Chinese food home and you just went up to your shower, and you just started crying because it's like, you feel like that sometime. It's just like, you know, are you just trying to keep it together? You know, it was really hard, but I feel like lately, you know, it was the first year was I feel like, you know, it took like a year and a half, I'd say I mean, I feel like it takes a while I think it's gonna take a long time to really get where I felt like to also get where I want to be where I don't see a number and kind of like clench up or take like a breath, you know, like just, you know, have that poker face which I'm excited about a psychologist kind of coming on and talking about like the effects of like, like how to help yourself maybe some tools with you know, higher emoting you know, yeah, you try not to I know I don't like you don't do that. That's why I love listening to cuz I'm like, how you can just like, you do what you need to do. And then you're you don't think about it again, it's to me very inspiring, because I would love to get there.

Scott Benner 7:17
Well, it was a process because for quite some time, I felt like I was doing that. But my wife said that my face gave me away that even if I get if I get hold it in verbally, she's like, it's just coming out through your face. She said, you might as well just look at us. And you know, say what's your thing? Yeah, I used to I've said on here before, but it was like a knee jerk reaction when something didn't go the way I wanted it to, I'd say out loud for some reason, like just under my breath a little bit. And my wife's like, that's hard on on us to hear like her and I and everything. I said, Okay, well, I wasn't doing like I wasn't like, you know what I'll do? You know what? You don't my Fingal Bay? It wasn't like, you know, it wasn't like that. It was just like, was it? You know, just or you're thinking

Hilary 8:05
I messed up. I mean, you're thinking that you messed up not anybody else. That's how I feel.

Scott Benner 8:10
It's a compounding too. It's it's you feel like you screwed something up, you feel like you're hurting their health. You feel like you're messing up the next thing you think you feel like you're letting them down. You feel like you're keeping them from eating. And it just hits you at once. And you're just like, gosh, like, I don't think there's anything like anyway, apparently, it's not good for people around men who are in what I guess you would call us. Like, I don't even know how to talk about sexuality anymore. There's so many different words like, Is there a word for when you're married to a woman? And you're a man? That's the traditional? Is that traditional? I don't even know what to call that. Anyway, I think I think men will know that I'm a large complaint from your spouse is usually tone. Right? Because this guy's just don't think about that. We say what we mean, we don't mean anything more or less than that. And the tone really, you probably shouldn't even infer anything from my tone. You know, I'm not even thinking that far ahead. But, I mean, it's going to be the rest of my life trying to figure that out. Because I know, you know, just the way things are said or impactful on people. And that probably sounds crazy coming from me because I do do a good job on the podcast talking to people the way I the way I would perfectly like to speak to everybody but the key is that I'm not sitting down quietly in front of a microphone having every one of my personal conversations and I'm not centered all the time and think you know, things are going on around you and you're unfocused or running around or tired and just happens, you know? Yeah. Well, I feel for you and it sucks to because the people around you who aren't taking on the lion's share of the responsibility don't really completely understand what it feels like either. Yeah, yeah, it's not great. But anyway, what is Joan using? Is she have any gear? Is she MDI? What's she doing?

Hilary 10:05
Um, she has been looping since she was 14 months. So we've been doing it for a while. And I worked with Kenny. I was like, reached out to him because on Facebook, he always chimes in. And I mean, he changed everything for us. I felt like I was about to give up because I was like, I just feel like we're not really looping. I mean, it's a big change. Okay, I have to back up. When we first when we first started. It was like, my husband described it as like, we've been living without running water. And it's like, turned on now. Like, we have water, because it just felt like a safety net. Like, you know, someone's already working on it. Or like Jenny says, a little grim. Is it good? Or did you want the Gremlins anyway? Someone said something about little Gremlins cleaning up and like, taking care of stuff, you know, while you can go about your life. So, you know, I feel like it's taking care of the highs and lows, but my settings weren't right. And they weren't completely off. But you know, like, for me, I started like fidgeting, and then I'd fidget a little more. And then it was something else. And then by the time it was, you know, a year later, I just felt like, gosh, I just still don't I still not grooving with it, you know, all the way would help, but not as much as other people I would see out there. Yeah. So that's when I reached out to Kenny and I said, you know, can you help me and he lives in Southern California. So we got together. And I mean, man, it's insane. I'm like, You're like a wizard. So that helped a knife, though. I mean, it really works, you know, and he also has so many good videos now on the so called bloopers page, and the, like, the videos that he's done, where he explains nightscout and really goes through everything, and it's really helpful. He's gonna come back. I, I'm glad that he is. Because I just find that he's who I've gotten so much from. And yeah, he's, he's been great. So it's,

Scott Benner 12:02
it really is interesting. You know, for people who don't loop or, you know, use some sort of an algorithm, there's a number of settings. And if those settings aren't correct, it just doesn't work very well. And you can also get the settings close enough that it works well away from food, but near food, it's kind of a disaster,

Hilary 12:20
or one setting could be making up for another. So in some situations, it's working really well, half the time, but the other half it doesn't work, which I think was what was happening with us. But we did one basil rate, which I had, like, I think I had like maybe six or seven basil rates. Yeah, I mean, because on a traditional pump, I mean, I I remember when john was first diagnosed, and we were on, we'd done the Omni pod and T slim, we tried a few different ones. And now we're on Medtronic, because of looping. They didn't have the Omni pod when we first started doing it anyways, but but with the T with a tea slim, we would call in to you know, the the nurse would say adjust this, adjust this change your Basal rate? Oh, it sounds like you need to step down your baseline. And so I had all these different ones until Kenny said, don't you just need one? Especially with I think with anything? I don't know, I bet it just smooth things out.

Scott Benner 13:20
Yeah, I agree that we're basically to Basal rate situation, there's a slightly lower one overnight, and there is during the day. Yeah. And, you know, someone like Kenny, who can see the real mathematical cause and effect of things. That's a, it's just, it's, it's fascinating to me that he can look and say, this is happening. So that means that this is too great, but then he can look at the you know, at the other setting and say, Well, if you make this one weaker, that one has to be stronger, and vice versa, like he just knows. And it's funny, I know now, like I can look at the settings and just change them. But I don't have any of the cognitive thoughts that he has to get to it. I don't even know how to do that. I just know that knob is gonna make this happen and that knob is gonna make this happen.

Hilary 14:13
Yeah. And I think it's interesting what he said about x strep that he used that for MDI and that he had even tighter control us just looking at the data coming back from that. I was like, how are you doing? You know, he really does understand

Scott Benner 14:25
and I've said it before, and I've said it to him too that he also has a younger child and as Do you and so we tried the the just like his idea for just one basil rate. And it worked great away from hormones. And then when hormones existed his settings were useless. Like they weren't they wouldn't work so I so I totally makes sense. I now think of Arden is like three different people. Yeah, and that fixed it. It just it didn't i didn't fight it. Like I hear people say all the time, like you can't figure out like hormones and you know, talking about periods pretty special. difficulty. And I just decided one day, I'm like, she's one kind of person in this, this space, she's one kind of a person in this week, and this week, she's a different person. And so her needs are different. I'll meet her needs. And then the next, you know, the next thing you have to do is figure out like, when does it happen? So, after a couple of weeks, you just see it like, okay, when, when this starts to drift up, these are the settings and when it begins to drift lower, then you go back to the other ones, and you get a little more aggressive with meal boluses in the for art, and it's the handful of days before the actual event begins. Which I say that way, because in my mind wants me to say it before she bleeds, and I'm pretty sure that's completely insensitive and correct. So I end up saying the event or something like that. Yeah, whenever Mazel Tov happens. So it really is interesting, but how is how, how are the outcomes now that you're all set up?

Hilary 16:01
I feel like we're good. It's, yeah, we we just kind of, I mean, there's days when she spikes and you know, I just kind of take care of that, but I feel like her car pound everything's, you know, right. And, you know, I try to keep her. I try to keep her under 130. I mean, usually, if I see a 130 I'm going to Bolus and I feel like we sometimes maybe have a little bit more like a feed insulin a lot, but I'd rather she snack so much. I mean, she's always eating I feel like so I know, there's gonna be a meal coming up anyway. So I would rather just make sure that there isn't a spike, even if I think it'll probably slow down, you know, cuz she's so young. And I have complete control because she's with me all the time. So I just think, give her the best care I can right now. Or you can Yeah, yeah, I do feel like Luke does a good job. I'm not just gonna leave it to loop to knock down something that's that if I miss if I miss time, something you know, which I feel like happens all the time. I don't know how you do it. I feel like with the the lunch that you give Arden and then she can you can just extend, you know, like put in the loop. what it should do. And it keeps like all of it comes in and works at the right time. Like I just feel like that's so hard to do.

Scott Benner 17:28
You're just basically fooling it into being in ludicrous mode the entire time, the foods, you know, just keeping everything turned up, meaning that there's real active Bolus and real active basil. And it's just happening. It's just fighting. I think of it as two flame throwers in a cartoon hitting each other. I don't I my I just there's pictures that pop up into my head. And so the food The food's just trying to, you know, it's trying to get to the other side and you're just trying to stop it. So you just you meet you meet force with force is how I think of it. Yeah, you know, and I do that with, uh, you know, different absorption times. Just tell what

Hilary 18:07
absorption times are you putting in? Are you doing because I do like chili like fruit and some sort of like meat, cheese things. But the fruit I found I thought that the fruit would hit like, all really fast. But sometimes it doesn't like sometimes I over Bolus up front was what I was noticing was happening. And then she would go kind of too low and they would cut off basil. So I started splitting the Bolus, but I still feel like that's not really right, either. So I don't know what I'm doing wrong. But I feel like the timing is still confusing to me. And I don't know if it's because of other foods she's eaten. Because there's not much time between meals, it's like two hours between meals. I do

Scott Benner 18:49
find that it's incredibly easy to overpower simple sugar. And even if it's there count wise, it might not need the same power. And if Yeah, if that makes any sense. Yeah, I mean, so I'm trying to pull this up right now so I can look for an example. So about a half an hour before you and I began, we decided to change Arden's pump. And, and she had been sitting on our CGM, oddly, and nobody noticed. So she didn't have a signal for like half an hour or so. So the loops now not engaged, and her blood sugar's going up and there's no loop. So she gets this like 190 blood sugar that just none of us notice right away. So now it's a 190 blood sugar, it's time to change the pump. So we put on a new pump and make us you know, make a little bit of a Bolus. She announced that she's going to eat something. And I said, Well, I have to go upstairs. So just Bolus 10 carbs now and then figure out what you're going to do and put the rest of it in. I just I don't know what you know, what else am I gonna do? And then I get a text message a little while ago. What is now about 40 minutes ago, now. And the text message just says, I'm having a big potato and reheated macaroni and cheese. No, that's great, you should sprinkle some rice overtop of it. Sugar because that rice has no flavor. And so I said, Okay. So what I did was 80 carbs, 40 carbs for four hours, 40 carbs for three hours. And I opened the loop, because I don't even want to mess with it. Because it's a new pot. It's a new pot. It's a new pump site. And I don't know how well it's gonna work or not. So I don't want to get into the intricacies of basil rates being taken away right now right now. I just want insulin. And you know, that's where we are. She's 187. So I think

Hilary 20:49
how often do you open the loop a day? No, not every day. No, no, no, no, no. I never open the loop. I never do it. But I maybe maybe I should if I get into a situation. So like yesterday, John's blood sugar went really high. And I think it was adrenaline. And it was just up and then it finally came down. But I mean, I Bolus she's on diluted insulin. She's so it's you 25 25% of one unit. And I mean, I gave her six units. And it was finally came down. It was so bizarre. Well, it was almost like a like she was getting sick kind of you know, yeah, amount because I usually don't have to give her it would be you know, just a couple units if she was like at 180. To get her back in range.

Scott Benner 21:41
I have a sort of a concept about high blood sugars. And it's something I use in my own life, but it turned it started as kind of a teaching tool. I guess while I was talking to people. And you know, it's it's nice if you if you have time to listen to the podcast, it'll come to you. Alright,

Hilary 22:01
Scott, wait, I've listened to every single episode. Every single episode and and many several times. I love your podcast. I'm like the probably your biggest fan I think, Oh, thank you. I absolutely love it. And I tell everybody about it. I've told her info about it. I can I like just think it's the best thing because it's taught me I wouldn't have I mean, it. I can't believe they let people go out of the hospitals without giving them like some direction. You know what I mean? Yeah, and without finding your podcast, I mean, I'd be in the weeds.

Scott Benner 22:37
That's very nice. You didn't have to say that. Although I'm glad you did. And because it makes me feel good. And it gives me a nice break in the conversation where I can put the ads.

g vo hypo pen has no visible needle, and it's the first pre mixed autoinjector of glucagon for very low blood sugar in adults and kids with diabetes ages two and above. Not only is chivo hypo pen simple to administer, but it's simple to learn more about. All you have to do is go to G Volk glucagon.com forward slash juicebox. g Volk shouldn't be used in patients with insulin, Noma or phaeochromocytoma. Visit je Vogue glucagon.com slash risk.

Do you or someone you love, have diabetes and find yourself checking your blood sugar? You know what I mean? Like a little finger poke and squeeze, squeeze, squeeze and dip, dip dip and then a beep beep and then number that if you do you should be using a good meter. Maybe a great meter, maybe an amazing meter. Why do you have a bad one? Wait, do you have a bad one? You don't even know do you? You've never even looked into your meter. That's okay. A lot of us haven't. Luckily for you. I took care of that. I got the podcast set up with the Contour Next One blood glucose meter. It is super accurate, easy to handle, easy to use, easy to see at night. And it has Second Chance test strips that stop your strips from being wasted. If you miss the blood The first time you know when you get some blood but not enough and you have to go back. That's your second chance. The Contour Next One blood glucose meter allows second chances and it doesn't hurt the accuracy of the test. If you have to go back in to get more. So you're not wasting strips. You're getting a great number and you're doing it with a it's a hip little beaner I was gonna call it like stylish but I don't know how stylish a meter can be. I can tell you this. If fits great in your hand, it's easy to use, it's easy to put in your pocket, your bag, your purse, wherever you carry your diabetes supplies. And it just flat out works. It also may be cheaper in cash, like out of your pocket than you're paying for your meter. Now through your insurance company, I'm not sure but that's possible. And you can look into that at Contour Next one.com, forward slash juicebox. There, you can find out everything about the meter, the company the test strips, see the cash price, find out if you're eligible for a free meter. It is a comprehensive website. Well worth a couple of minutes you're gonna spend looking around it when you get done listening to this episode. That's a lot of confidence for me, isn't it? All right, Mike, you're gonna go look at this thing. I have to tell you, I sometimes look at the site. And I think who put this together? There's so much good information here. Well done, I think. And then I clap my hands lightly. As if I'm at the opera. Contour Next One comm forward slash juicebox links in the show notes, links at Juicebox Podcast comm support the sponsors support the show, let's get back to Hillary. And how she tortured me and then told me to get rid of the episode, delete it, just kill it like it. You know, it's like one of my children in these episodes, and she just wants it gone. wasn't that easy, Hillary? Just give it away like that. I have feelings. Just she's just like, hey, just get rid of the episode. You know, no big deal. Just go. I'm teasing Hillary, I really like her. Let's get back to the show.

What I was gonna say is before you were so kind is that when I'm talking to people who have not listened to the podcast the way you have, right who were coming into it in full freakout mode, you know, so I see I see it a lot on the Facebook page, like some people are just like, Hey, I'm here to listen to the podcast. And then they do it. That's just really cool. As a matter of fact, the podcast just had its best month ever. And this month had more downloads than the first two years of the podcast combined. Wow, crazy. That is awesome. So I appreciate you telling people because the word is definitely getting around. But But anyway, sometimes you get these people and they don't have all the ideas, and they still are having such bad outcomes that you want to try to get them somewhere stable to start over. Right? Yeah, so I have an idea about high blood sugars, the way I think about a really high blood sugar is crush it, stop it, get it stable. Because if you crush it, it's going to fall. And you have to stop that drop without causing another high because I just because you have to write so you know. So it's crushed it, stop it, get it stable. That's it. And I employ that for my own mistakes. Because I think it's almost impossible for most people to disembark the roller coaster while it's moving. I can do it. And I'm sure you'll be able to do it at some point people listening. But when you're first starting out to turn a 250, you know, into an ad during a meal is is a ninja plus level move. And like I can do it I could Bolus for a 200 give my kid a baked potato and and macaroni and cheese not be in the room not count the carbs not weigh the potato and end up at a good blood sugar. But, but most people can't What they need is the ability to start over with. And and so when that happens on loop, I just use the same concept. But you have to you have to open the loop to do that. So it doesn't take away the basil.

Hilary 29:09
I wonder if that was the issue because, you know, I'm also like, I feel like I can he's always said you know, don't trick loop don't tell it you're doing like don't put in fake carbs, you know, things like that. And so I'm like, I'm not going to be a fake Carver. And, and so I think you know, but also it's like the the nature of diabetes. Sometimes you're like, this takes this amount of insulin and you just I feel like sometimes I just beat my head up like yesterday. I was like, well, it doesn't take this much. It takes this much. You know, after you've done it a few times you think you know what, you know, which is something you say but then yesterday didn't work. It was weird. I don't

Scott Benner 29:43
know. Well, that's not fake carbon, though. Yeah, that's a dressing glycaemic load of food, right. So there can be I know that at some point, people are gonna be like, please stop saying this, but it's really important and nobody pays attention to it. So you know, you Get 10 carbs worth of baked potato and 10 carbs worth of I usually say watermelon because they're pretty diametrically opposed, right? And those two things are going to impact your blood sugar differently. So so whatever ratio you have set up for, you know, say your one unit per 10 carbs, that one unit might handle that watermelon perfectly, it may, in fact, handle a number of foods perfectly. If you actually had 10 carbs of it, it doesn't mean it's going to work on the baked potato. So if you know that the baked potato needs the insulin equivalent of 15 carbs, that's not fake carving. You don't that's not lying about carbs. That's being honest about need. Right, which is, you know, I don't even think that's splitting hairs. I just think that's a setting that the pumps and algorithms don't have, you know, I wish that they did one day they might but for now, they don't. You know, for sure. But anyway, yeah, that's, that's what I like to do. And it's so instead of the old fashioned way, you know, prior to an algorithm of crush it, stop it, get it stable. I do with a loop. I do crush it. figure out exactly when to turn the loop back on. Let it get stable on its own.

Hilary 31:22
See, I should have done that. I should I never open the loop. Like I said, I never do it. And that and I probably because I'm trying. Yeah, I probably should have yesterday and

Scott Benner 31:30
it's a different spot for everybody. I would imagine but Arden's about 140. Diagonal down. If you reengage the loop right about there, it gives it enough time to catch it.

Unknown Speaker 31:40
Oh, that's good. Yeah.

Scott Benner 31:42
And keeping in mind, too, this is important. I think most of our ties don't go much over 200. So it's not like we're, but it's still a fair amount of insulin, you know, that I'm talking about? Yeah.

Hilary 31:53
I mean, anything over 120 I feel like it gets a tax, you know? What do you feel like when it's over money, I get the tax, you know, gets a, because if you ever want, it's like so easy to bump in nudge, like you always say, you know, if you're, you know, in a really nice range, it doesn't take much insulin, but once it starts creeping up, it just takes more and more and more.

Scott Benner 32:14
Yep. The higher the higher, you get the you know, the I see people think of it as your insulin resistant, but I prefer to think of it as you know, it's a number you just didn't hit correctly. So now you have a deficit. So you I think of it as a deficit of insulin, some people call it an insulin resistance. I don't know that they don't, in theory and function mean the same thing. But right, you know, it's just the, it's just the way I prefer to think about it's the way that works on my brain. To be perfectly honest with you. I just want to I just want to understand what I'm doing. So you're on to talk about low carb eating, aren't you?

Hilary 32:53
I am low carb not very not not extremely low. We're low ish, low. It only

Scott Benner 32:58
took me a half an hour to get to really getting good at this podcasting thing, but I was enjoying our conversation. Wait, oh, people who like tune in because this one's gonna be called how we eat lowish carb. And then people are going to listen to us talk about stuff for half an hour, and then we're gonna start talking about carbs. And I'm like, this could have been upfront and to you, I tricked you. You're still listening. No, just kidding. No, no, I like having a nice conversation first. So we know, kind of what your situation is, and put people in a mindset. Yeah.

Hilary 33:27
I mean, I felt like the the situation was that she was diagnosed so young, too, you know, so that was part of the, the low carb approach was that the in the hospital, they were like she needs to eat. I think they told me 50 carbs per meal. Like, okay. And then I like put together a meal and I was like, like, how was she going to eat? She was also like she she had because she got sick. She had RSV at six months. And I noticed sort of that she kept on getting sick and different illnesses, a lot of ear infections. And and so that

Scott Benner 34:11
was RSP because I thought of Ruth Ruth Bader Ginsburg,

Unknown Speaker 34:14
when you said

Hilary 34:16
was like, wait, what is she sorry, RSV. It's like a respiratory infection. babies get sometimes end up in the hospital. So I think that's kind of what triggered things because after that, it was just like a slow decline of just her getting Yeah, take her to the doctor. Oh, I don't you know, she's just an ear infection. Okay. And then, finally, I took her in that last month, every single week and I was like, something's wrong with her. Something's wrong with her. And then she finally saw her pediatrician. But she was in decay at that point and had thrown up that day last she was instead of 19 pounds, she was 17 pounds. And like, you know, it was just those are

Scott Benner 34:56
those are Arden's exact weights. 19 pounds 70 I

Hilary 34:59
know I've heard you say that. Yeah. And it was funny because I don't know if it was, it's funny now, when we're, you know, in the house, and we were in a doctor's office, they did the meter, the nurse, you know, gave her a blood check. And it just said, you know, hi on it. And I was like, as you thought, Oh, that's so nice. It's it, you know? So that that made me laugh when you said that, because I thought the same thing was like, What a great, you know, little instrument.

Scott Benner 35:26
You know, only older people would have that thought who had really crappy electronics as a child, just like, Oh, look, it comes on and says, Hello, this is lovely. Yeah.

Hilary 35:38
Yeah. They told me so we went to the hospital after that, obviously. And then they were like, yeah, give her you know, I think it was like 30 to 50 carbs per meal. But I remember it was a it was a lot. It felt like a lot. And you know, we live in California, I eat pretty healthy. We, you know, we didn't really I mean, I don't know, it just, it just was. I think that's just how we ended up there. Because I was giving her Luckily, she was on diluted. And that was that made a huge difference. I felt like with just the not having a ton of lows and highs but she was on, you know, the level here at night, which was, you know, she would have you know, lows at night. It was it was tricky when everything first started, but it felt like, well, we can kind of do small meals, do like 15 carbs per meals and snacks throughout the day, then that kind of makes my life easier, in turn makes me happier and my family happier. So that's kind of how we got there.

Scott Benner 36:38
Alright, so I've like a layered question here. But first, I want to point out that you said, you know, we live in California so we eat healthy, which is why a lot of people don't like people from California in case you're wondering. You're like obviously I'm a healthy person. I live in California.

Hilary 36:54
I just went there's a lot of options. Right now actually, because we're escaping the fires. So we drove here with my fit like me and my kids and my husband drove to Texas. That's where we're from. Okay, cuz you're totally

Scott Benner 37:06
not from California. You said a word early on and it made me think to ask you where you were from. Originally, I made one. I made a note to ask where you're from originally. Now. I can't remember what word triggered me. But we're in Texas. We're about not exactly where because people will come and find you, Dallas. Oh, yeah. I'll tell you, Texas is I'm leaning on my wife about Texas because I feel like I could find no snow and no humidity somewhere in Texas.

Hilary 37:34
Now, it's so humid here, everywhere. But about Austin. I don't know, man. It's it's very buggy. There's so many bugs here too. And I'm not I'm not scared of bugs. I don't mind bugs. But I mean, I came back and I my ankles like everything's eaten up by running very buggy.

Scott Benner 37:52
Let me just believe this exists. Because as I get older, I don't want snow and I don't want humidity. These are my goals. They're very small goals.

Hilary 38:01
Sounds like the West Coast. Why don't you go to new or New Mexico or Arizona? I don't know. Everybody loves you in Salt Lake City. Right.

Scott Benner 38:09
I'm huge in Utah. I know. Sure. I could be the next leader of the church if I tried. I'm serious. I don't know if that was insensitive. And if it was, I apologize, but I think it's true.

Hilary 38:24
I mean, they like you. They're just like, it's beautiful, too. I've never, I've only driven through but it looks amazing.

Scott Benner 38:30
Someone sent me. Someone from Utah heard me say this and sent me a town. They're like, go here. And I looked online, and I was like, I'll be damn, I would like to live there. It was just really beautiful. You know? Yeah. Anyway, so. Okay. What I was gonna say is, you're kind of interesting, because of the timing of Joan's diagnosis in history. I mean, but you're almost gonna you're almost like a person who, you know, 10 years from now is gonna you know, you'll you'll meet somebody who bought a car that runs on gasoline, and you'll be like, oh my god. Wow, where'd you get that? And like, you know, your kid had diabetes for three months. And you put her on an algorithm. Yeah. And was she lower carb that whole time?

Hilary 39:13
Wait, it was more than three months because we did some things before it she she was diagnosed at 11 months.

Scott Benner 39:19
He did some things like he robbed the bank. What are we talking about? You did something

Hilary 39:22
Wait, I'm thinking maybe she was 17 months then but it said porch. I mean, I looked at my pictures this conversation has been a lie believe it No, no, but I mean, I look back at my pictures and it said for it was 14 months it was in February. So yeah, it was really quick after

Scott Benner 39:39
maybe your computer doesn't know what month it is. But that's not the point. Quick No,

Hilary 39:42
she didn't do MDI is very, very long. At all. You also with she got the the G six. Also when we left the hospital, she had a Dexcom she was wearing one from California. Say everybody leaves with the Dexcom from California.

Scott Benner 40:04
Hillary do not ruin my joke. I set that joke up masterfully sorry. Honestly, cut me a break. Okay, let me know though. No, but that's that's so far that's how did you talk them into a Dexcom? How did you even know to ask for one

Hilary 40:19
might well, my husband when she was diagnosed just like he was like we, you know, he's he just wanted to figure out the best things that we could get for her. And he's like, we need to get a pump, we need to get a Dexcom He's like, like the Omni pod. He was just had it all figured out. I was in the hospital just like, not able to talk pretty much like laying in the bed with Joan, you know? Yeah. So he figured it all out. And he's like, the tech guy, and that he does like all the research and all this stuff that we need to he set up our loop. And then I do the settings, which I think, you know, it's usually one person. I don't know, a lot of people I know, because it's a lot to take on setting it up. Well, I mean, people do it. But for me, it seems like a lot.

Scott Benner 41:00
Yeah, I don't know what I'm doing still. Like, there's, they're like, right now people are like, oh, there's a new version of the loop. And, you know, you have to rebuild nightscout or something like a No, thank you. I mean, it's still work and don't have to do it. You know, when I'll do it, by the way, is when I force Kenny to help me or anyone else, I'll just go online. And I'll, I'll I'll exchange some of my goodwill for help because I'm really confused by all that stuff. It's, it's, it's it's not dissimilar, by the way then how I make adjustments on pumps. I just, I just know turn that knob or click that box like I can get through the setup, but I have no tangible idea what I'm doing. Right. I just know where to click. It's Yeah, I must be infuriating to people who, whose minds work differently. But it's the best I can do. Yeah, it really is terrible. So what does lowish carb mean?

Hilary 42:03
Well, for me it it's just like, I'll, I'll I'll give her we'll try things. You know, I'm not I'm definitely if we're, you know, out and somebody has brought something to the park Well, well, not these days, but maybe in the future. You know, well, boys experiment with stuff. But I mean, when we're eating around the house is just, you know, as many lower carb options is sort of what I'm offering. And then I do like to make sure she gets you know, 10 to 15 carbohydrates. At least with the breakfast, lunch and dinner, and then snacks also if she wants, so it's like for breakfast, she had yogurt and berries. But the yogurt was sort of like a more high protein. Yogurt, which is not easy to Bolus for because you have for me because she is low. Like we all kind of eat lower carb sheet, especially with her being little like she's like a little kid, her body can produce ketones, right? So I don't want her to ever have high ketones because of her diet. So I that's why it makes sure that we check ketones, that she's that she's getting enough carbohydrates to kind of flush them out too. So you're trying she's also getting a lot of protein.

Scott Benner 43:20
Jenny explained this to me one time so there are ketones that come from eating and ketones that come from not enough insulin, they're not the same thing. And they and they don't and I ketones might be the wrong word. Because I remember complaining during that episode that there were so many words that sounded like each other that meant something different. But so it's you're just trying to avoid it more because she's such a tiny person. It leads the weight loss to right like

Hilary 43:47
Yeah, right. Yeah. But she hasn't had she's only been gaining weight and she's like, I don't know at a third 70th percentile which she's always been so she's I mean we eat a lot of so she eats like yogurt berries for breakfast or like she had I get this like low carb bread called sola. And it like with Walden farms jam on it in the morning or she'll eat bacon with fruit like usually berries or apples with like walnut butter. She also has like she has some allergy stuff going on or she's allergic to eggs and to soy and almonds so it's been tricky like just with some foods that she can't eat but we do a lot of nuts though even though she's allergic to almonds and we do a lot of nuts for snacks and about lunches. lunches. Sometimes like just leftovers from the night before if it's like chicken and vegetables asleep the chick she's usually She's like a little kid so she's I always I tried to offer vegetables to my children but they don't always they almost never eat them. salami is pretty easy cheese is she loves the least chocolate. I know they were a sponsor at some point or they still are you still

Scott Benner 45:12
have a switch over at the company and then we're going to get back on track.

Hilary 45:15
Okay, cuz we're I'm also obsessed with the chocolate like we buy so much Lily's chocolate. Because you know, it's like olives and lilies chocolate are like the two things I do not have to ball Bolus for everything else. I have to definitely give her insulin for I make what I make waffles out of, like, hurt out of, you know, alternative sort of nut flowers and stuff, right? Yeah, so I mean, there's a lot pretty much and especially with like the keto craze, and people like thinking, you know, doing like low carb diets, I feel like it's so much stuff now you can buy. But for me, it's just easier to do like, lots of different fish and meats and offer those and there's this stuff called moon cheese and like the parmesan, cracker kind of things that I mean, if she wants other stuff, and we're out, I'll also do that it's just, you know, she's here day to day. Yeah, with also my let me know, with my, I have a five year old, you know, trying to wrangle them and all that I just feel like it was putting in so much insulin, and getting the timing right and not getting like, you know, forgetting this or that it just felt like a lot of pressure and stress.

Scott Benner 46:35
So is can I ask you is the is the lowest carb diet a, a, an actual decision about nutrition? Or is it more about making bolusing easier, and the rest of the family just went along with it

Hilary 46:50
felt like it's both because I always have sort of eaten. I mean, always kind of ate this way. Anyways, we didn't eat a lot of bread. And then but my husband did. He was like, eating pizza and all kinds of stuff. And he always has. But ever since john is diagnosed, he stopped eating all of that kind of stuff. And he only eats like meat and vegetables now.

Scott Benner 47:12
Do you believe that during the day when he's not at home, he's just sitting in this car? I

Hilary 47:15
do I do. He's really he's he found also the rebel ice cream. So that's like his thing. He'll have like a pint of rebel ice cream at night, which Joan also can have, which is very cool. But I just feel like there's so many alternatives. And, like right now that it's it's easy enough

Scott Benner 47:37
just to stay on the lower side of carbs.

Hilary 47:39
Yeah. Because then, you know, we can just, like go to the beach, and I don't have to worry about how much insulin she has on board. And I have friends who, you know, it's just, I see the other side. And I feel like, gosh, that looks stressful. You know, because when we're at the park, the most unit she has on is maybe three and that's you know, she's so that's really only point seven, five, because it's diluted, you know, I mean, sometimes it's more but it's it's a it's where I could give her one card and she would be back at where she's supposed to be you know, so and I don't get the spikes and the drops. And so I feel like for right now her being so little and us just all being together as a family for the most of our days, it's especially in quarantine right now.

Scott Benner 48:24
You don't need extra things to be worried about or anything. And by the way, I not that you need my approval. But it sounds completely reasonable to me. And it sounds like it's working really well. So I mean, do you think there'll be a time? Where if she were to come to you and say like, Look, lady, I had pizza at a party? I don't know what to tell you. But I want more of it. Do you think you'd be able to handle bolusing it or do you feel like like so I guess what I'm saying is, is that being lower carb for managing insulin? Some it strikes me like it's sort of like setting the video game to beginner. And you know, so that it just, you know, everything's a little a little more forgiving as you're going which is terrific. It's it's an amazing idea. Obviously. My question isn't, you know, do you think you can sustain this? I don't think like that. But like, say it happened. say she's just like, I'm gonna eat this now. Would you need you'd need some practice, I would imagine, right?

Hilary 49:30
Yeah, I mean, I think with any I mean, we've we've I Bolus true pizza before. And one time, it was great. Another time. It wasn't another time. It was good. You know, like, so it's like, yeah, everything just takes practice. But I think because she's so little Like, right now it's just easier if she's not asking for something than to just do low carb. But if she does ask for something, then I certainly want her to be able to try it and you know, yeah, but you know, we went out to dumplings the other day. Like when I say the other day, it was probably a year ago because we've been inside with each other for six months now. But um, and she, I thought she'd be totally into them. And she like, picked up one dumpling when we finally got our food and she was just like, oh, and she only ate the meat inside. And I was just like, Oh my gosh, you fooled me, you know?

Scott Benner 50:25
She needs a fresh piece of white toast with some butter.

Hilary 50:29
Yeah, actually, I use these for if I do give her food that she doesn't eat, I have the date bars with cashews in them. They're just dates and cashews. And they're so good. They're so easy to Bolus for and they're like 30 carbs. For one bar, I think or maybe they're the what is brand is that a ham what brand it is, but they're just dates and cashews. So I split one and a half, and that's 15 carbs. And so it's like, we miss something. She doesn't want it. It's there you go. And it's so study, and easy. But yeah, I think when she gets older, I have friends who I have. Like this one mom said her, you know, they were even like, very low carb. I don't know if they used our insulin, but they were very low carb. And when our son was diagnosed when he was really young, and then he got older, and he wanted to have pizza and God is friends and have burgers and things like that. So she, you know, he does that now. And she does that kind of work together and do their best. But you know, yeah, it's I say whatever. Well, I mean, the thing is, yeah, it's kind of for me, I think of it in like chunks of time of like, okay, for the next year, what are we going to be doing? And this is, so it's just so much easier the day to day to not have to, but I wouldn't, I wouldn't like it if she was upset that someone was eating something. And she was and I wouldn't want that situation at all. So if that was the situation, then I would say, okay, you want to try that? You know, let's do it.

Scott Benner 51:59
It's very possible that it'll never happen to her, she might just be very happy with how she eats. And that'll be that and,

Hilary 52:04
well, we've been out and she definitely has done that. So Oh, gotcha. It's okay. It's okay. You know, like it. It The thing is, is that we eat like this at home. And so when we are out and if things go sideways, I don't feel like I just think that the day to day of it would be for her age. And for me and like you said, this is like almost like the studying it on like a like a computer game to the beginning level. Because I am a beginner, I've only been diagnosed 11 months, and she just turned three. So we haven't been at it this long. So I feel like it It works great for that. So and there's just so many options, you know,

Scott Benner 52:42
yeah, no, I there obviously, obviously, is a ton of things that you can buy, and that tastes better than anything has in the past, etc. I was gonna say that, um, yesterday, an episode went up with a mom of a really young kid with diabetes. And she just threw herself into understanding how to Bolus for regular foods. She sends me something on Instagram every day, and food that the kid eats and the kids graph. And she's she's a rock star name's Tori. And she's amazing at it. And I just wonder, like, I would love for her to like I said, I'm having this Daydream where you like babysit her kid for a while. And she babysits yours for a while. And I see. No, they're on the east coast. So you'd have to FedEx them. And I think that's illegal. So and I don't know why it should be. But it definitely, by the way, if anyone's listening, I think it's illegal. It'll ship somebody in a box. But especially children, you think the The point is, is that she somehow figured it out. And and I don't know. Like you both listen to the podcast. So like, I'm just fascinated by that. Like, it doesn't matter to me, like, I genuinely mean it when I tell you, I don't care how anyone eats. And I'm going to end up saying this sentence probably on every episode of how we eat. But I just want people to understand how to use insulin. And from there, they can do it with whatever they want. And it sounds like you understand it really well. Now, it's just when you add more carbs, it's it's harder for you. And there's something in there like there's you're not bolusing and not for your your botching the timing or something like that. But it's doable. It's just not. It's not necessary. You know, I'm not arguing for or against any of the ideas of how people eat. I just interviewed a guy yesterday that was a vegan, and not for moral reasons, just just to eat vegan, and it's better for his body and he feels better. And I think that's cool. I actually think whatever people do that works for them is really great. I just want to sort of give voice to all the conversations. So

Hilary 54:51
I think that that's what I appreciate about your podcast is I don't feel like you have an agenda and you are genuinely just interested in people and their journeys. And I think in the type one community, sometimes I get nervous about talking to friends on either side, because it feels like there is like a divide or a stance that you have to take. And for me, you know, even saying like, we're low carb, like, it feels a little bit like, you're gonna be judged.

Scott Benner 55:18
You're not, you're like, you're like, you wouldn't be low carb enough.

Hilary 55:22
Oh, no, I think either way. Yes, yeah. Anyway, yeah, I do feel like and that's why I said low carb ish, because I didn't I didn't want someone to think that I was, you know, representing, because I'm not, you know, but it's, it seems like, just for me, it just makes sense to do what works for you. But I do think that's an interesting point that you bring up about, about the timing and that someone is doing it who has little kid and I sometimes I wonder, like, Am I am I not? Am I like scared? Because sometimes, recently, you ask somebody that like, are you just scared to give that amount of insulin? I was like, Oh, that's a good question for me to ask myself. Am I just scared? You know, of giving that much insulin? Or am I just trying to make it easier in my day to day life? Because if I give that amount of insulin? I would have? I mean, it seems like I would have to try it. Like at least seven times, I think to get things right. But with I feel like the little kids. She's always eating and it's so hard to like really get a good idea of Did you get the Bolus right or not? You know,

Scott Benner 56:32
I hear you. So what's the answer? I don't know. I don't know. Do you think about it for a second? I don't know. I'm what do you do you think you know? Yeah, of course. I know. Yeah. It's It's It's a mix of both. It started out because you because you were not having success? I would imagine.

Unknown Speaker 56:51
Yeah. And

Scott Benner 56:52
then it became easy. And now it's easy. And the further away from doing it. You get the harder it seems about right? I think it is. Yeah. I'm like, I'm almost a genius. I understand. I barely understand anything, Hillary just so you everyone listening understands. I'm good at watching people and, and knowing how to use insulin other than that. It's pretty much a mixed bag after that. But, but no, I would imagine that that's it based on what I've seen, you know, countless other people go through, I can tell you right now, if I come down to Texas and get my ankles bent a little bit, we can give Joan whatever. She wants to eat a bowl of soup for it and we'll be alright.

Hilary 57:36
We're going to be in California Scott. not staying in Texas.

Scott Benner 57:39
wasn't coming to Texas. So you know, it was more of a hypothetical, but I could do it. I also wonder too, how much does she weigh? Again? 31 pounds. How come you still diluting the insulin?

Hilary 57:51
We planted the loop until she's I think I'm four or five is what the end of said no, I think you get I mean, for me, it seems like tighter control because you don't have to. I mean, sometimes I wonder I don't know. I mean, you just her basil rates are, you know, some? Some of them are. You know, so little.

Scott Benner 58:20
How little how small. Like point two five? What would it be if it wasn't diluted?

Hilary 58:27
Uh, I don't think you could get it small enough. Right? Well, because it's, it's one unit is

Scott Benner 58:36
point two five doesn't make sense. It's point two five diluted, but she weighs 30 pounds. Let me look at what her setting. What's her a one say? Okay, would you tell me that? Yeah, it's a 5.5. I mean, it's working. I wouldn't change it if it's working. But obviously, I would just think at 30 pounds she could handle point two of regular at a regular strength. Yeah, I don't know. What's experimental. You're kidding. I'm just kidding.

Hilary 59:10
I mean, that's the only way to do it. That's the weird thing about type one. It's like, I remember when we first started on like, you know, can you tell me how much and then you realize it's all just you just experiment and see what happens you know, we I mean nothing really bad. No, if you're just if you're just trying things and poking around and not you know being too crazy nothing's gonna happen.

Scott Benner 59:31
I just the reason it's striking me is because I just released a person into the wild who I was helping privately and their their kid was like three years old and weighed like 40 pounds or something like that and, and the kid needed like ended up needing it. It's I don't mean it insultingly the kid and it I just said the same sentence. I'm just trying to avoid saying him so I don't get out of here. And instead I'm just being terrible. I'm like that thing that we were talking about. Anyway, the boy He's getting like half a unit an hour.

Hilary 1:00:04
We have sir her basil rate for the whole day is 4.8.

Scott Benner 1:00:08
Hold on. And that's the looted?

Hilary 1:00:11
Yeah, sorry, I don't have this info. I don't have her phone on me. I didn't know we're gonna talk about this. I thought we're talking about food. We are

Scott Benner 1:00:18
talking about food. So that's she's getting point two an hour of diluted insulin. Yeah, I see what you're saying. So that's probably, what's the dilution? How do you do one? Part Two? What one part?

Hilary 1:00:34
It's called diluent. So it's a I think some people use sailing. And then some people use dill, you went with different kinds of insulin.

Scott Benner 1:00:44
But is it like, Is it like a certain parts of insulin to a certain parts of the dilute? Brilliant? Yeah, yeah. What is it? How many parts? To what? Um, it's. So what do you mean? How many parts? How do you mix it? How do you do somebody mix it for you? Or do you mix it? I mix it? Yeah. Tell me how you mix it. As long as

Hilary 1:01:07
you want me to take you through how I mix it, I take out 250 units of insulin, right. And then I put in 250 units of Sorry, my kids are now walking into the room.

Scott Benner 1:01:26
Tell them we're doing something very watch a show. Yeah, watch a show, or find some pornography on their phone or something to leave us alone. So it's half in half. Basically, you're having it. So point two of this is equal to point one, I'm guessing have regular strength. And your pump will do that. Yeah, we're out. Yeah, we're on the Medtronic. Yeah, you're probably you think that we should move to to just not diluting anymore? Well, keeping in mind that I'm a dumb ass from New Jersey, who just bought a microphone and has an idea of how to get his voice onto the internet. I mean, I

Hilary 1:02:04
don't know. What do you think will happen if we don't dilute? Why will that be better?

Scott Benner 1:02:09
I just think you'd have more control over the insulin. What I might be wrong, you

Hilary 1:02:15
feel like do you feel like the diluting is is making it, like, diluted? I was thinking that it was making it not, like precise or something. That's what I fear is that, you know, because one little drop can make such a big difference, you know,

Scott Benner 1:02:34
so keeping in mind that what I know about this could fit into a thimble. I mean, that seems reasonable to me, but I could be 100% wrong. But I would try it for fun one day, I could try that. I would just make I would make her basil rate point one use, like full strength insulin and see what happens. Interesting. I never I never would have thought of doing that. I mean, if she starts like, you know, dropping drastically I might go Ah, that didn't work. Yeah. But doesn't the pump do like point? 052? Also?

Hilary 1:03:08
Yeah, that's what I like about the Medtronic pumps

Scott Benner 1:03:11
totally doable. Yeah, yeah. Here's a good time to say again, nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise. I really, I genuinely mean I, I'm, I'm just thinking of this in a fanciful way. I don't I have no idea what I'm talking. But what's the point of it just that you don't have to dilute it anymore? What's the point of deleting it?

Hilary 1:03:36
I don't, I don't know. Cuz I was told, I don't know. I don't ask questions like this. I don't know. I was, I was thinking, Hillary, you're just

Scott Benner 1:03:43
making me upset that I didn't marry somebody who's more like susceptible to authority. And constantly arguing with my wife about every last thing. She's got a goddamn opinion about everything. You're like, I don't know, someone told me.

Hilary 1:03:55
That's like my husband. My husband's like, he's the one who was kind of like spearheading the more lower carb, sort of, he's like, how are we feeding her all this crap? This is crazy. What they're telling us, you know, and I was like, I don't know. They're telling us. I'm just following what the doctor told me to do. And he's like, you need to stop it.

Scott Benner 1:04:10
If I had to guess about that. 50 carbs a day at a meal thing? I would when you said that the first time what it made me think was they know a ratio in that doctor's office and it's based off of 10s. Right, and they were just like, well, she's little half it, give her five. Like, I just that really struck me is such an arbitrary thing.

Hilary 1:04:34
It's so arbitrary. So much of what they had told us, you know, it was they told us to give her 15 carbs to treat her. She was going low. And I was doing it and I was like, This is crazy. You know, she's 300 and now we treat her with one you know, one carb is usually what she needs. It's just it's it's unfortunate

Scott Benner 1:04:55
here sips of a juice box. Just a little bit. Stop just like that. Yeah, yes. Especially when they're that small. Well, I can tell you that six days ago, I met a lovely woman named Patricia. And that's not her real name, but she'll know that that's funny when she hears it, and her son, few years old, I don't remember now, which will probably make her upset. Little kid, blood sugars kind of all over the place. I think it took me maybe 12 hours to get the kids blood sugar stable. And then a couple of more days to teach her how to Bolus and a day after that to tighten up his his basil and get them right. And I just unfollowed her yesterday. And she's, she's doing great. So it and the only thing that's there is she had a willingness to learn something new. And she she I can't believe I'm saying it like this, because I don't mean it this way. She listened well. Like she spoke up when I said something crazy. But I told her in the beginning, if I say something that seems completely out of line, please say something because I'm not there. Like, if I'm saying something that just makes you feel like that's not something we should do, then say that otherwise, you know, we're going to make some adjustments, turn some knobs, see where he gets high, and when he gets low, and then you're going to Pre-Bolus and learn the difference between the impact carbs have and that's it. She I never, I've never spoken anybody privately who's picked it up as fast as she did. It was really interesting to watch happen. She even inside of that week fought with her doctor's office, because they saw the data and said, What are you doing? She's like, I'm keeping my kids blood sugar from spiking all over the place. And they're like, no, that's gonna hurt him. And she's like, No, I think you're wrong. Like she fought back. And yeah, in a week, she's is amazing. Like, she's the quickest turnaround ever. It was really, really interesting. And I'm simultaneously talking to one other person who won't believe what they see. So they just keep throwing themselves into the same problem every three hours. And it doesn't matter what I say, they're not going to listen, so I'm probably gonna suggest to them that no, we shouldn't talk because it's just not worth anybody's time. Yeah, and that's fear, in my opinion.

Hilary 1:07:15
Yeah. Fear is a big thing. I think with the just, I think I think I have had that. And I still do, you know, because but I think it's now mentioned, like we were talking about just, it's just easier this way. Sure. You know, but I also, you know, she's going to preschool and I started thinking like, Well, you know, I don't they can't operate her pump like, she's going to be going just a few hours. So there's, I don't know, when they're this little, it just seems so much easier because it's a one car will raise her blood sugar 20 points. So if you get a miss timing of something, which is also easy to do when they're this little, I feel like I have a lot of nose noses. I feel like I know, I'm on the podcast right now. But if I was listening to it, I feel like I know what you would say. Next, almost. It's really funny to be on it. But what do you think I'm going to say? I think he would say like, I think there's I think that I'm like, there's obvious fear, you know, of, of just like letting her like this, you would have so much insulin on board, and that it's a fear thing. And that I should just try it.

Scott Benner 1:08:26
You know, you're making me think that therapy is such a scam. So I just, I just get somebody in a room and then charge them money to make them say things out loud. They already know. But they haven't said. Yeah, but it's very helpful. I don't know. Yeah, I just, well, let's submit this your insurance to see if I can get a copay for mental health. And

Hilary 1:08:46
you should be I feel like your podcast would be awesome that it should be submitted to insurance, you should be getting some sort of like, payment for this because it really is. Okay. The whole timing thing is I think the part that's hardest, because, you know, the protein rises, you know, there's things that come later that can have so much power and one day, there'll be a certain amount and then the next day they won't, that's where I I was getting frustrated, I think at the beginning, because I would try something three days in a row for breakfast and every day, it would be different.

Scott Benner 1:09:22
Sir, any chance that that has something to do with using diluted insulin?

Hilary 1:09:27
I don't. I don't, I don't know. I wouldn't think so. I mean, I know a lot of people who use or looted insulin and it works okay, or not a lot. I mean, I know. Well, what

Scott Benner 1:09:36
about the idea that the the lower carb options? Do they have a lot more protein in them sometimes?

Hilary 1:09:47
A lot for protein, but that also can be a timing thing. So it's kind of funny because I'm like, I always think about that like when I deal with like a protein rise that I missed on and I didn't hit it like because with Lou I found that I can't really set out a three or like a four hour absorption to hit. And it won't, it won't hit it hard enough when the protein rise happens like that two hours later, or an hour half later, okay, so I have to put in that she's eating carbs. And it's a three hour absorption an hour and a half after she eats to get the protein rise, not to rise, but if I forget, or whatever, I feel like a lot of this has to do with just me being absent minded and not paying attention. Then it messes up, you know, and then I've missed it.

Scott Benner 1:10:37
Are you absent minded? You don't seem absent minded.

Hilary 1:10:40
Very absent minded. Yeah. I get distracted pretty easily. Yeah. Yeah. Like, shy?

Scott Benner 1:10:47
Or like, how bad?

Hilary 1:10:49
No, not that bad. But you know, I just, you know, it's like two kids, you start playing and you know, then you go on to the next thing. And then it's like, oh, I gave you insulin, those a Pre-Bolus. I forgot. Oops, that kind of thing. Yeah, it's like, it's just one less thing to worry about, well, I guess the truth comes out. I'm just trying to make my life easier here. While

Scott Benner 1:11:08
you were being self taught you were being reflective just now what I was really going to say was, it sounds like it's working really great for you. And I wouldn't change it. I was just, it was just fun to talk about. I mean, there are people with children, your child's age at your child's weight that are using pumps that with insulin is not diluted was really my only point. But if it's working for you, then whatever, I just don't want you to get to the point where it stops working one day, and you're so far off of center that you don't even know how to restart.

Unknown Speaker 1:11:36
Yeah, you know,

Hilary 1:11:37
you know, it's interesting, because I mean, that's just protocol at the hospital that we're seeing that that if they're under three, they get diluted insulin that you as the parent gets to mix up every couple of weeks. And it's just part of the process. I remember when they told me that I was like, This is crazy. I can't mix up medicine. What am I chemist? Like? Are you kidding me? This like more stuff?

Scott Benner 1:11:59
What if I forget in the middle of me mixing it up what I'm doing?

Hilary 1:12:02
My husband did that. Like he was supposed to be the mixer for me. And he I came home and he was like had Crazy Eyes. And he's like, I don't know which one I put it in. If it was like diluted if it's the Kimball auger that diluted and I can't. I was like, Okay, stop. Just give me I'm gonna do this job. So,

Scott Benner 1:12:19
episode of Breaking Bad ever. Guys, shoot anybody? You're still money? No, no. Well, you're in Texas. Now you can shoot anybody you want. That's not true. You can't just shoot anybody in Texas. I just need to say that I think. Well, that's a listen. I appreciate you coming on. And I didn't, we didn't talk about what I expected, we would talk about as much. But I feel like we did at the same time. I feel like we talked about I feel like we talked about something that happens to a lot of people, especially people who are probably parents of younger children are people who just struggle out the gate. And the and when they don't figure out how to use insulin, the next very reasonable step is well, I'll limit the carbs then. I mean, I think that's completely reasonable. I always just have a feeling that I don't want you to, I don't want you to eat any certain way. Because you feel like you can't figure out the insulin. If you want to eat that way. I think that's really terrific. I genuinely believe that. But I don't I I'd be sad if I thought that every day you were making a plate and thinking, I really want an English muffin. But I don't know how to Bolus for it. That's all, that's all. And I think you could figure it out because other people have and they couldn't. And like I said, if you FedEx me that kid, I'll get her some pizza, get her all set up. But send a note with her because I don't think you can transport children over a state line like that. I'd probably be capping or if that happened. But But seriously, like, you know, just don't be do what you do. Because you want to do it. Yeah, I guess that's what I'm saying. And it's cool to know that there are a lot of low carb options. And it was interesting to hear you go over some things that she eats, that she enjoys a lot. But it was also interesting to hear you say that she has seen other food and been like, hey, Mommy, how come? I don't know french fry? You know? So

Hilary 1:14:22
right. I mean, I tried to do it when you know when we're out. And if she does want something, I feel like that's really reasonable. But if she wasn't happy with options at home, I think I would rethink things. But I think it's just she also was when she was diagnosed, she was just starting to eat finger foods because she had been sick for like a month before that, you know, and so it was just all everything was kind of skewed from there.

Scott Benner 1:14:52
I think bottles get used up to about like two years, right? It's not about that. It's about reasonable like breastfeeding or bottle feeding.

Hilary 1:14:59
Yeah. I was breastfeeding at the time. And I did stop that because that was it seemed really stressful. And then I found out I mean, I've heard from other people you've had on your podcast that they kept going and they just kind of rolled with it. It was pretty inspiring

Scott Benner 1:15:13
on a Bolus for

Hilary 1:15:15
Yeah, but it's I think, mainly I just want her to feel healthy day to day. And for our family to be happy. And, and not. I feel like when I went, you know, sort of, without knowing that she's definitely going to eat something to give her so much insulin, it gets tricky. Yeah. Do you ever did you feel like that beginning with Arden? Yes, like

Scott Benner 1:15:39
100%? Yeah, yeah. But what I figured out to do is what I tell people to do on the podcast now, which is juicebox, or pick, pick an amount of food you just for sure know, they're going to eat and that's your Pre-Bolus even if it's five carbs and Pre-Bolus, five carbs.

Hilary 1:15:54
And what happens when the timings off on it? So you're, then you're dealing with like a 200, or 250?

Scott Benner 1:15:59
I don't do that. What are you talking about? So you put in the five carbs, right to get some sort of a Pre-Bolus. And the minute the second, that you see that there's more food going in you Bolus. You don't wait till they're done eating, you go, okay, five carbs are in I've got a nice Pre-Bolus things are moving my direction. Also keep in mind, my daughter starts a meal at a reasonable blood sugar. It's not like I'm Pre-Bolus Singh, five carbs on a 250 blood sugar. It's right, you know, she's more around 100 somewhere, one, one side of the other of it. So you would get a little bit going, let it work as a Pre-Bolus give her the food. As soon as five carbs go in, and it's clear, she's gonna keep eating you Bolus for the rest. And that's it. And then that way, there's enough in there to make up for the timing. That's what I didn't. I mean, that's what that's that's what most people do, I think, who have little kids. And it's interesting. I think I've said it on here once before, but somebody contacted me privately once who had gastroparesis, who wanted to Pre-Bolus and we talked on the phone for like a half an hour. And at the end, I said like, I'm sorry, I can't think of what to tell you. Like, I don't have any, even like Fs suggestions here for you. I said, Oh, except you could Pre-Bolus the way people Pre-Bolus for infants was like, just give yourself a little and then once you see that the insolence impacting the way you expect, then give yourself the rest because the problem could be is that they could eat no digestion happens. And so the so the the you know, the glucose is not being pulled up by the blood. Now all that insolence in there, it's gonna, it's gonna kill you. And so once but once they see that digestion is happening, then add they need the insulin right away. And so they did the same thing.

Hilary 1:17:41
Yeah, I guess mine is just more of a timing thing, because I feel like I want to keep things under 180.

Scott Benner 1:17:47
Yeah, no, I know. But you definitely could. But it takes practice. But Alright, so this was good. I enjoyed this. Did you have fun? Did we not talk about anything that we shouldn't have that we should have that we know

Hilary 1:17:59
I think everything was good. I've got my whole family in here. Now. They found me

Scott Benner 1:18:03
as Jonah. Like, can we like pinch her so she cries so we can hear or something like that? Is that? JOHN, you want to say hi, john. He's trying to hear you, Joan. Hello, sweetie. How are you? Yes, Joan. Casey, hi. Hi. Hi, john. How are you? You know how good bread is? Oh, she's gone. Nevermind the turtles. Oh, that's really sweet. She sounds sweet. Yeah, she's a lot of fun. You didn't say that with a ton of conviction? Well, we've been we've been together for six months now. Yeah, she's fine as far as children go. Every day, same thing. That's great. Yeah, yeah, I hear ya. I really do. Alright, well, thank you so much. I appreciate you doing this. Yeah, that's fun. Cool.

A huge thank you to one of today's sponsors. g Vogue glucagon. Find out more about chivo Kibo pen at G Vogue glucagon.com forward slash juice box. you spell that GVOKEGL Uc ag o n.com forward slash juicebox. I also like to thank the Contour Next One blood glucose meter and remind you to go to Contour Next one.com forward slash juicebox to learn more about Arden's blood glucose meter. I also want to remind you to find the Facebook group for the podcast Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes.

Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back soon with another episode of the Juicebox Podcast. Please don't forget to leave an amazing review wherever you listen. tell a friend about the show or a stream I don't care. If you have to stand up on a bus and start talking about it. You need to do your part. Okay? I make the podcast, I get it to you doesn't cost you anything, the least you can do is stand up on a city bus, where there's about 60 people, I don't want you to waste your time with just three or four and say, Hey, anybody here have diabetes? I got a podcast for you. And say it out loud. If they seem confused, show them how to use their phone. Really, this is all I'm asking of you. Just public displays of affection for the podcast. And if you're an endocrinologist, or someone that works in the practice, and you've been suggesting the podcast to people, let me say thank you. That was really very kind of you. I appreciate that. All right now I'm really done.


Please support the sponsors

The Juicebox Podcast is a free show, but if you'd like to support the podcast directly, you can make a gift here. Recent donations were used to pay for podcast hosting fees. Thank you to all who have sent 5, 10 and 20 dollars!

Donate

#494 Monkeys Eyebrow

Scott Benner

Phoebe is an adult living with type 1 diabetes and she is an open book.

You can always listen to the Juicebox Podcast here but the cool kids use: Apple Podcasts/iOS - Spotify - Amazon MusicGoogle Play/Android - iHeart Radio -  Radio PublicAmazon Alexa or wherever they get audio.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT


DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:12
Hello friends and welcome to Episode 494 of the Juicebox Podcast on today's show, Phoebe. That's it. I just liked Phoebe. I really enjoyed talking to her. I think you're going to enjoy listening to her. isn't that easy? Simple. Phoebe's a type one. She's had diabetes for a while. It's moved to all over the country. Her dad is super interesting. Please listen to this episode. While you're listening, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan, or becoming bold with insulin.

This episode came within a hair's breadth of being called possum trot. Anyway, smelly cat was also in there but for reasons that will not be evident while you're listening to most of you. Nevertheless, this is Phoebe.

This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the Contour Next One blood glucose meter, please, please go to Contour Next one.com Ford slash juice box. It is the most comprehensive website about the Contour Next One that you'll ever find. I mean, that seems obvious. But seriously, there's a ton of stuff there. The meter is incredibly accurate, rather affordable, and it has Second Chance test strips, it's worth your time to look into Contour Next one.com forward slash juice box. The episode is also sponsored by the Omni pod tubeless insulin pump. Summer is here people it is time to swim and frolic and you'd love to do it with an omni pod Trust me. It is tubeless it does not encumber you while you're doing such things and you do not have to disconnect to go into water. That's a big deal. a really, really big deal. You may be eligible for a free 30 day trial of the Omni pod dash. Find out on the pod.com forward slash juice box.

Phoebe 2:33
Hi, my name is Phoebe. I live in Livermore, California. It's a town maybe about an hour east of San Francisco. But I'm from the east coast. So it's weird being in California for me still. And I have been a type one diabetic for Oh, God got to do math. 2727 years.

Scott Benner 2:57
Why did you pick this time? If you're from California, it's so early in the because

Phoebe 3:01
Friday, I have Friday's off. And I also use Friday as chore day. So by the time we're done, all of the grocery stores will be starting to open and I can go before everyone else goes.

Scott Benner 3:12
Wait a minute. How are you? Why are you so well planned out?

Unknown Speaker 3:16
I believe my husband, I'm 30 where you bleep?

Scott Benner 3:19
Does he hit you if you don't have groceries?

Unknown Speaker 3:21
No, no.

Scott Benner 3:23
Can he hear this? she just looked over her shoulder. She just looked over. Make a sign if she needs me to call 911 No, no, no, seriously,

Phoebe 3:34
I um, when we first when we first moved in together and we went grocery shopping together we would go like the second the grocery store opens were like in the grocery store. And I've just gotten used to that. And now when I go to the grocery store when there's you know a million people I'm like, Oh, so you Reno's grocery store at a kit. Why it Why am I dealing with people in a parking lot?

Scott Benner 4:00
This is the worst TV telling me that you have rules that are so specific around grocery store shopping that if you don't show up when no one's there. It ruins the experience for you.

Phoebe 4:10
It does now Actually, yes, I used to not care but my bandwidth for dealing with other people in a grocery store just significantly decreased. So time. No, I've been I've been up I've already started laundry. Instead of doing a podcast, I would probably have cleaned all the bathrooms Fridays are my chore days. And yeah, by the time I would get home, the only thing would be left is fold laundry and mop the fullness.

Scott Benner 4:41
That's hilarious. Let me see something here. I was gonna say I'm a little hung up here. I was gonna say that. When I talk to people on the phone. I can't sit down and do it. So I'm a huge proponent of cleaning toilets while while I'm on the phone, so I I find myself saying a lot. Hey, I'm about to flush the toilet that I have to explain that I enjoy. But by the way, enjoy cleaning toilets while I'm on the phone is an incorrect statement. I just feel like it's a good use of time that would otherwise be a better

Phoebe 5:15
use of time when, when I'm on like a conference call that I don't have to be at a very active member. That's usually when I'll like sweep the floors do the kitty litter stuff like that.

Scott Benner 5:29
I hear you. Okay, so I guess I want to understand how you got to California from the east coast.

Phoebe 5:35
Oh, gosh. So Well, let me back it up to when I graduated from college. Since graduating college, I've lived in Baton Rouge, Kentucky, North Carolina, New Jersey. The Philly area, Alexandria, Virginia and now California. Because God, you're right, a lot of a lot of it was job related. Okay, so I got my first job in a chemical plant in Baton Rouge. And then the project that they hired a lot of people for was canceled or they had to basically scratch it so then they transferred a bunch of us new hires throughout the company and that's how I ended up in Kentucky as a uranium tetrafluoride production engineer. And then

Scott Benner 6:36
what I What Are You Smarter something Phoebe What's going on here? I never know who I'm getting on this podcast. What do you know that other people don't know?

Phoebe 6:43
A lot. I'm so I'm a chemical engineer through my college degree. And currently, I'm a safety engineer at a national lab. And between the end and now I've had all different kinds of manufacturing jobs. But being in the middle of nowhere Kentucky, just as a not married 22 year old was like the worst thing you could be you know, the prospects out there, whereas Well, well at least he has all his tea.

Scott Benner 7:20
Hey, people listen to this that this podcast and Kentucky Phoebe.

Phoebe 7:23
You're killing my people from Paducah. She between possum trot and monkeys eyebrow, but you didn't know that. Wait a minute. Did you make that up? Those are real towns. My husband has a shirt that says a welcome to possum trot, Kentucky.

Scott Benner 7:39
I have to tell everybody listening from Kentucky right now that if that's actually true, and I think I have no reason to doubt Phoebe, then her snarkiness earlier is reasonable. And I don't think we can hold her account, I

Phoebe 7:50
promise. It's true. It's not like I was in Louisville or Lexington or you know, one of the populous areas. Like the nearest target was an hour away. That's

Scott Benner 8:02
a very rural place by yourself when you're 22. Yeah, exactly. Good job, or was it just you needed to start somewhere with the idea of

Phoebe 8:10
kind of I needed to start somewhere because when I got transferred, I was only six months into my career and quitting at that point would be, it would be harder to start up. So I was like, Alright, I'll go here. I'll work until you know, my contract is so I don't have to pay back relocation. And then I'll just find something else. And then that's what I did. And I was in a rotational program for

Scott Benner 8:33
Hi. She's killing a cat while we're talking. What are you doing to that workout? Oh, he says no. He knows when he wants attention. Okay. I do something similar.

Phoebe 8:45
Yeah. No, if he literally will forget where Andrew and I are when we go to bed. And I just realized that it's really dark in my room and heal me out from downstairs and we have to essentially invite him upstairs into the bedroom. So he can, you know, come snuggle.

Scott Benner 9:06
Alright, so give me a second here. So you're, I understand taking a job anywhere when you start off, but the part that throws me off a little bit as being by yourself and because I imagine I'm imagining maybe I'm wrong, that you work all day, and then there's not a lot to do you don't know anybody and you're not near anything. Is that how you're that's? Yeah,

Phoebe 9:24
that's pretty much what Kentucky was. I actually started dating Andrew when I was in Kentucky. He was a groomsmen and I was a bridesmaid at our close friends from college wedding. And so I met him and told off my ex at that same wedding and like, I knew when I saw injury I was like, Huh, all right.

Scott Benner 9:52
Target acquired, saw Andrew and thought he's better than the one I have.

Phoebe 10:00
And yeah, I saw Andrew flirted very heavily. And then that jaw at that job. We had a four day weekend for Labor Day. And we had been texting each other because he was in New York getting his PhD, and I was in Kentucky, just wasting away. And, you know, we've been texting and I was like, Hey, I have a four day weekend. For Labor Day. What should I do? And I think he jokingly was like, Oh, you should come to Buffalo. And I was like, I could come to Buffalo and then like, 10 seconds later, I purchased a plane ticket. And

Scott Benner 10:35
Phoebe went to Buffalo. That's amazing. Are you unstable? Or no, he just freeze. No.

Phoebe 10:42
He's, he's a good. He's one of the best friends of one of my best friends from college. So she has good taste. So I have to tell you, he wasn't like a weirdo.

Scott Benner 10:52
For people in Kentucky. It does not bode well that buffalo was the place she escaped to. Getting his PhD. He's smart. So that's nice. We're gonna have a little tiny smart babies one day.

Unknown Speaker 11:03
I hope so. Yeah. Wouldn't it be crazy if they were kind of dumb to what you were just like, that's like,

Phoebe 11:09
other than them getting type one diabetes, then being like, dumb, or their favorite subject being English is like my worst nightmare.

Scott Benner 11:19
I had a conversation yesterday with a couple and I don't do a lot of three ways. I don't do a lot of three way recordings. But this was fun. And they were both very late. They had very, you know, kind of specific, like, traits and hobbies and things. And I like to think the whole time I was talking to them as their kids gonna want to play football, and they're just gonna sit there.

Phoebe 11:42
I hope if I have a son, he doesn't want to play football. Soccer is fine. But football with all those head injuries just freaks me out. Oh,

Scott Benner 11:49
I didn't even meet the head injuries. These people were just the furthest thing from sporting enthusiasts that you were ever going to meet. And I thought Imagine if they had to sit on a field for 15 years. Probably.

Phoebe 11:59
We'd love it. Okay, we're both Penn Staters. So I mean, we have a wall dedicated to like, football stadium, the football stadium panoramas in our home. So

Scott Benner 12:14
so this is this is what we need to get to from your email. She's gonna show me Yeah, well, this is the exact witness the dartboard Yeah, from somebody who went to Penn State now. I was so when, when when Phoebe sends me an email. She just says kind of like, you know, I was in college, I did this like Dance Marathon to raise money for cancer. And I was like, immediately being from the northeast, I thought Phoebe went to Penn State, because well, especially since you're in Jersey, I'm sure you've either seen the cameras or have almost hit one with your car. I have grown up around a bunch of Penn State students standing on corners collecting nickels and dimes for a very large portion of my life. And I know about somehow I tangentially understand that there's this dance marathon to raise money for cancer. But mostly what I know about people from Penn State art is that they, they are just shy of being cult members. Because why do you all love it so much?

Phoebe 13:14
Um, so you know, people are like, well, it's such a big school, aren't you? Just a number. And honestly, the way I went through it is, you make it you make the school as big or as small as you want it to be. And by the time I was a senior, like, you know, I was, I was knee deep in my engineering classes I was involved with on I was involved with homecoming, I was in a sorority, I was in another club, and there's just, there's so much to do. And of course, you know, football is just fun. And at that time, you're 18 to 22 years old, you have absolutely no responsibilities compared to being you know, a real life adult. And, you know, when you're when your biggest responsibility is making sure that you study for a test with your other engineering friends, it's just, no, it was, it was probably one of the funnest four years of my life. And

Scott Benner 14:16
football was a big part of that. I have never met a person who went to Penn State who didn't absolutely adore it. Just Yeah,

Phoebe 14:23
it was And plus, you know, I mean, not to, you know, totally miss out on like, the academic part like Penn State engineering is a top engineering school. It's cool. Like it it's, it's a, you know, and plus, the good thing too is they tell you this statistic when you're going through it, one in one every 100 working professionals is a Penn Stater. So, um, you know, eventually we'll meet maybe maybe a hiring manager is a former Penn Stater and boom connected click

Scott Benner 15:00
And then then you do the secret handshake that only you from Penn State and the devil knows. And then next thing you know, yeah, so you've got she's making. Maybe they're saying, alright, let's not mess with these people just in case they really are called and I don't want them coming after me. But anyway, she's like, no, we're not which is exactly what they would train you to say by the way VB true. No kool aid is delicious, by the way. So you're diagnosed at what age?

Phoebe 15:29
I was going into my third birthday, actually had to ask my parents about my diagnosis story because I didn't really know it. Okay, so, um, I first asked my mom, and she was like, we were shopping for your third birthday cake. And oh, backstory, my mom is a nurse and my dad is a surgeon. Okay, so medical, strong medical background for both of these people.

Scott Benner 15:51
Before you start, were they shopping early in the morning before anybody else was there for your birthday cake?

Phoebe 15:58
I think so. Honestly. It was in the morning. find that out. Send me an email. We'll do okay. Um, so, you know, my mom was like, you were very specific. You wanted the mermaid cake. And as we were, as we were shopping, sorry, I need some water real quick. You're fine. There we go. Um, as we were shopping, I go, Mama. I'm thirsty. She was like, Okay, well, it's may it's warm out, have a juice box. And then I go, Mama. I'm still thirsty. And she's like, wow, you're really drinking this really fast. Are you okay?

Unknown Speaker 16:31
They go. Yeah, my mouth feels like cotton. She's like cotton.

Phoebe 16:36
That what the hell. And so she was already on alert, because that's just a weird thing for two, almost three year old to say, yeah. And then she's talking to my dad later that night. And she was like hay fever has been acting kind of weird. She's been going to the bathroom a lot. And she told me her mouth felt like caught and my dad was like, Oh, that's really odd. Well, let's keep our eye on her for the next couple of days. And I think the next day is a weekend. But my dad had to do some rounds at the hospital. And he brought me with him and I would toggle after him. And apparently all the nurses loved it. And before we go, I'm like Papa, I have to pee. And he's like, Oh, you won't go pee. And then when we get to the hospital, not even a 15 minute driveway, pop, I have to pee again. Okay, think takes me to the bathroom. And he's only gone in his own. What's only there for like an hour and I'm like, pop I have to pee again. He's like, Okay, how let's and he takes me to the emergency room and finds me an empty bed. He's like, sit up here feed. And let's test your blood sugar. And it was like, 420 He's like,

Unknown Speaker 17:39
dammit. So.

Phoebe 17:44
Yeah, so I think between the time my parents noticed I had symptoms. And when they actually confirmed the diagnosis, it was less than 48 hours. Yeah. And I actually have the half brother, who's 20 years. Wait now 30 years older than me. 30 No.

Scott Benner 18:05
That seems unreal. Yeah. It's not No. Brother. Yeah, I your dad's 114.

Phoebe 18:15
Papa guys. Oh, gosh, he was 60 when I turned 21. So he's 69? Yes, yeah. 70 8080 to 90. Yeah. So David was born in 70. And he has type one diabetes.

Scott Benner 18:29
Okay, hold on. And we're related through dad. Yeah, I was gonna say slow down a second here. Sorry. I'm excited and nervous. You're excited and nervous? Yes. Are you seriously? Well, that every one of you Who says that? If my wife could hear she would smack you on the head for being nervous to be near me. Okay, but, but wait, I need to understand. Not that I think it has anything to do with anything, but maybe it does. You're 30 now? Yes. You literally have a half brother who is 69 years old? No. My dad is 60 to 69 years old. So your dad had your half brother when he was nine. Dad is a sexual prodigy.

Phoebe 19:10
I did math wrong. Sorry, David. David is 50. Okay. And then I think Tara is about to turn terrorismo half sister may start over. My dad has been married three times. And he has had kids in each of those relationships. from his first marriage was David David is the other type one diabetic in the family got it. From his second marriage came Tara than Levi. And then from his third marriage came came me. Okay, so I'm, I have siblings, but I would say I grew up an only child.

Scott Benner 19:45
I hear that. Does your dad have any children from his fourth or fifth marriage? No, no, not from his fourth. He's recently remarried. Gotcha. He's your dad like the Ganga is Khan of doctors. I see just oh man. I don't know if I want my dad to listen to this or not just like is he get up every morning and just kind of crack his fingers and go, Hmm, is it gonna be? I'm gonna spread some seed today, baby. No idea. I gotcha. Okay. All right, by the way, I was joking. And then when he told me he was married again, I was like, Damn, I'm intuitive. Although intuitive, yep. debate. So that's got a ton of energy. Yeah, he got no money. I'm betting

Unknown Speaker 20:36
he's doing okay, quite fun.

Phoebe 20:39
middle of nowhere, Maine and his house is on the bay. And I get jealous every time I see pictures, and he watched her fishes for himself. And, yeah, make sure they don't get pregnant. God is just a, he's the most like eclectic man. I've known and until I'm met my husband. He was like the smartest man I've ever known. So it's interesting.

Scott Benner 21:03
That's really kinda interesting. Okay, so you have an older half brother, who also has type one.

Phoebe 21:07
So you guys know step 15. And according to my dad, his symptoms were much slower onset than mine. Like it took them a while to figure out David was a diabetic, but for me, it was like,

Scott Benner 21:25
right away. Well, he had also seen that before I'm imagining unless he was true. Yeah. That's interesting. He so he's the thread between the diabetes your father. Gotcha. Yeah. Your dad can get anybody pregnant and make a baby with Type One Diabetes. He's like a super cool Blake. To two out of four kids, right? That's he's batting 500 Yeah, I really I know he's older. But I'd like to see him knock up two more ladies to see what happens.

Phoebe 21:52
My dad kinda looks like the most interesting man in the world, is how I would but paler.

Scott Benner 22:00
So you imagine the most interesting man with a with a darker sheen?

Phoebe 22:07
Like the you know, the original dos techies, man? Yes. He was very tan my dad,

Scott Benner 22:11
literally. Oh, I say I got you. Alright, that's who my dad was. You weren't just being there was no hyperbole there. You were literally

Unknown Speaker 22:20
making a real reference reference. Gotcha. Yeah,

Scott Benner 22:23
I gotta stop using so many big words that people are gonna figure out I know more than I said. Let's get back to me saying great. And wow. All right now, okay. I'm not much smarter than I purport to be on the podcast by the meaning they're fine. Okay, so you are diagnosed at three? What was it like growing up with type one that was 27 years ago, and I can do math reasonably well. That was like, 1997 9393. Yeah, I transposed the seven and a three and my backwards math. Okay. 1993. Fair enough. Yep. I, by the way, in 1993, I was 24 years old. So you seem very young to me. And, and so what was it like growing up?

I'm putting the ads here because this episodes about the heat up. And I don't want to interrupt it when it does. So quickly. Let me tell you about this. On the pod tubeless insulin pump, you may be eligible for a free 30 day trial of the Omni pod dash, that is 30 days of using the Omni pod dash insulin pump for free. That's 30 days 1/12 of the year, where you're not paying for insulin pumps, just that try the dash. And you're not even like hooked in like you can be like, ah, nevermind, I don't want it, it's fine. Maybe use this opportunity to see what it's like to swim without, you know, having to disconnect your tube pump. That's the big deal for those of you who are to pumpers right, you disconnect to get in the shower and then maybe you forget and don't connect again. And next thing you know your blood sugar's 250 or you jump in the water now you don't have your Basal insulin for a while these problems are they're real and they can be avoided using the Omni pod. So check it out on the pod.com forward slash juicebox don't disconnect to go to the beach. Don't disconnect to get in the water to take a shower, a bath to frolic about Do you ever have somebody point a hose at you and say oh God, don't spray me my insulin pump. Don't have to do that anymore. Either head out in the backyard and shoot each other with a hose. You can do that with an omni pod. There are a lot of other great features about the Omni pod that I am now don't have time to tell you about but this whole bit about it being tubeless and eligible to get into the watery situations. To big push here for the summertime. Don't forget about it on the pod comm forward slash juice box now you have an insulin pump, or you don't you have a CGM or you don't. But everybody has a meter. But not everybody has a great meter. But you can and it is not expensive. The Contour Next One meter is the most accurate, easy to use, easy to hold. lovable little meter that my daughter has ever had. It is the favorite of mine. Personally, I love it. Contour Next One comm forward slash juicebox a second chance test trips, where you can go back in and get more blood if you don't get enough the first time without ruining the test trip, or impacting the accuracy of the test. And the accuracy is crazy. It is it is so good. It's so accurate, it's accurate, you understand it's super accurate. Find out about it contour next comm forward slash juicebox. If you don't need anything else from a meter, at the very least you need accuracy. But this meters got so much more it's gonna fit right in your pocket in your bag in your purse. It is incredibly affordable, you actually may be eligible for a free one you can find out at the link. Seriously, head over. It's the most comprehensive blood glucose meter website I've ever seen in my life. The people who put it together really made sure that everything you needed to know was on that site and it was easily accessible Contour Next one.com forward slash juice box, go find out if you're eligible for the free 30 day trial, the dash on the pod comm forward slash juice box and now we are going to dig into Phoebe's life and laugh like hyenas. There are links to these sponsors and all of the sponsors at Juicebox podcast.com. We're right there in the show notes of your podcast player. Alright, you guys ready? You're not ready for this, but you're gonna love it.

Phoebe 27:16
I don't remember growing up with any other type one diabetics. And it was actually quite hard in the early years because my parents divorced shortly after my diagnosis or the same year of my diagnosis.

Scott Benner 27:30
Well, he's on a schedule. He can't you guys, he just had to keep moving. I guess. Yeah, go ahead. I'm sorry.

Phoebe 27:39
But um, so my, my mom and I moved to Atlanta. And the reason I moved back in with my dad is apparently my daycare didn't handle my diabetes. Well, they would administer insulin, but they wouldn't draw it up. So every day during lunch, my mom had to sit three year old Phoebe on the phone, and had me count the lines that I could see. And eventually she, what that's arbitrary. So weird, right? Yeah. So, you know, and she's a nurse, so it's not, and she was a nurse, and now a single mother. So it's not like she could just,

Unknown Speaker 28:26
you know,

Phoebe 28:27
be at home with me to take care of me. So she was just like, I guess she called my dad was like, Oh, and I, it This isn't working. She needs to come be with you or there's more resources and because, you know, my dad was a essentially like a big fish in a small pond kind of thing. And, you know, with him being orthopedic surgeon, he's operated on everyone's mom, Grandma, blah, blah, blah. And I had already had an established nanny at that up there. So I moved back in with my dad. And from what what I can remember, you know, there were definitely no other type ones. Um, and my dad was very adamant that I learned how to do everything I needed to do without the help of an adult. So by the time I could do long division, he was having to calculate my my dosages. You know, it was it was hard at first because I was on mph and regular right back in the day and that just sorry, I just remembered a funny story. So with mph and regular. We've talked we've talked about this before, we have to be on very specific eating schedule. And I was the pickiest eater, in the whole world, like the juice on my food could not touch on the plate. If it did, I wouldn't need it. Okay. And I had learned That if I just hold out long enough, Dad will panic and feed me whatever I want. So, one day it backfired. And it was time to get ready for school. And he poured me some cereal. And I took a bite and I was like, Daddy, I don't like this. And he just he was like, dammit, Phoebe, I am not doing it this morning, you are going to eat your cereal and you are going to go to school. So I eat the cereal. I'm crying. I'm like, Daddy, it tastes bad. And turns out, go to school. Everything's fine. Come home. Dad's like, Alright, we need to go to the store. We need to get some milk. I was like, we have a full thing of milk. And he's like, oh, sweetheart, I'm so sorry. It was spoiled.

Unknown Speaker 30:52
Sure, your story

Unknown Speaker 30:54
decided he couldn't put up with your bullshit anymore. Because the data was bad. And he made you eat it. That is exactly what happened. That's great. That's exactly what happened.

Phoebe 31:08
Yeah, so and and think of, you know, I think I was like five or six at that time, too. And I was stubborn and petty enough to just plow through it anyways. So

Unknown Speaker 31:21
yeah, um, well, you won.

Scott Benner 31:24
You ate that milk. You ate that

Unknown Speaker 31:26
I ate, I ate it. I didn't drink the milk. And he was like, that's fine. But I ate it. Just get out of my house, go to school. Go to school.

Scott Benner 31:34
I got ladies coming over. You got to get up.

Phoebe 31:40
And then and so. But yeah, he was very adamant that I knew. Because with him being a doctor, um, you know, I couldn't call him to ask, Hey, what should I do for this? Um, so he made sure I knew what to do. Of course, when he was he was there. He would double check things. And sorry, second kept coming in.

Scott Benner 32:04
There's another cat. And this one's Meow. Meow, sir. Yeah. Which you guys can see. That is a pretty cat. Of course. Well, so you his schedule didn't really allow for you to be in contact with him. And so how did

Phoebe 32:20
how did and also texting wasn't a thing. So it was all phone calls and beepers. It was just Yeah, um, you know, so back in the day like, and I was a latchkey kid, you know, I would come home from like kindergarten and let myself in the house. And, you know, I knew how to make scrambled eggs from a young age. I knew how to make a sandwich. Like, I knew how to cook for myself, all from a very young age. Because if anything happened, I like it's it's me. It's not.

Scott Benner 32:51
I really am finding myself wondering if people even understand like, younger people would even understand the concept of that. Like if I tried to explain to my son that used to come home in kindergarten, bust out your key let yourself in the house and start making some eggs. No one called the police.

Phoebe 33:08
If we did that now like CPS would be all over us. back then. It was totally normal, right?

Scott Benner 33:13
Yeah, I am. I raised my brother's pretty much break it out. Yeah. Yeah, I don't think that is as common anymore. I'm sure it still happens. But it's just probably not nearly as common.

Unknown Speaker 33:27
But good. All

Phoebe 33:29
I know is being so independent. Growing up, I did go to diabetes camp once I didn't like it because I felt like no higher all of I don't like being around other diabetics. Why are you trying to tell me to do with, with my diabetes, you don't know anything go away. I grew up to be so hyper independent, that I have a hard time sharing When I need help, because it's my thing. You know, that's been pretty much the only cause of like a disagreement between Andrew and I to it's just like, he's like, you need to tell me when you are low. And I'm like, Yeah, but usually I've already taken care of it. And like one time I literally sat in front of him with a my checker to gatorades and I thought that was enough. And then I finally came back up and I was like, that was a bad one. He was like, Why didn't you tell me I was like, cuz i was i already handled it. It's fine.

Scott Benner 34:27
So this is interesting. Seriously, because the people I told you about earlier I recorded with yesterday. I am going to be certain that whenever one of them comes out that yours comes out, they come out together because these people are younger married couple. And she the non diabetic is incredibly involved in his type one. And it was seamless the way they talked about it. Then you're allowed to get away from it. Five to die, I'll die, but you're not helping me. Yes,

Phoebe 35:04
I have gotten better. So I have a Dexcom. And the hardest thing for me to do was to let Andrew Follow me, which he does now. And he, gosh, I was working out the other day and I started to dip. And he has a song that apparently, he was driving the other day and he was listening, listening to low buy the Foo Fighters. And he's like, the song is you. I was like, What are you talking about? He goes, Well, it's called low. And the opening lyrics are, um, hey, you are you in they're stuck outside you. And he's like, when you're when you're low enough, you just go somewhere else, and no one can reach you. So he pushed that song onto the Alexa and I had to yell downstairs like, I'm fine. Leave me alone.

Scott Benner 35:56
So he's just now because you won't allow him to be involved with your diabetes care. He's now just playing taunting music at you while you're low.

Phoebe 36:04
I occasionally let him in I I've told him, you know, maybe we should practice having you put a like insulin pump site on me and stuff like that. And he knows the basics. He knows how to use my pump. He knows what a low blood sugar is, what a high blood sugar is and how to correct for each. But I'm just so this is my thing. It's not your thing. It's mine. Right?

Scott Benner 36:35
Well, okay, so besides the fact and I'm not a psychologist, obviously, I'm just a podcaster. But besides the fact that your father instilled in you that you need to take care of this by yourself at an age that is so young that I don't imagine you could escape the message. So besides that, though, what would the problem be? Like forget your like, any neuroses feelings you have about it? Like what would the issue be with him helping it there's really no issue. Another thing was, you know, um, so

Phoebe 37:11
another thing is like, my dad was so stoic and very serious. My mom was quite emotional. And anytime that I had a bad blood sugar, I would hear, you're gonna lose your feet, you're gonna go on dialysis. You can't let your blood sugar be 250. What are you

Scott Benner 37:27
doing? So just come on. Phoebe, I'm starting to think you might have lost the parent lottery a little bit. I'm sure they're lovely and everything. But I'm not saying that. I'm just

Phoebe 37:42
parents, when it when it came to when it came to diabetes. Like if I needed help, I'm sure I could have gone to them. But you know, and with them being divorced, I don't. I had my mom and I had my dad. So when it was like, Who do I go to? It was whoever I was living with. And my mom would panic at other numbers. And which is funny because she's a nurse. Like, she should not panic. And whenever we got like a bad a one C was, well, what are you doing? not wrong? Not? Hey, what can we fix together?

Unknown Speaker 38:17
Can I ask? So that just led you go?

Scott Benner 38:19
I want to ask you questions. So this just happened recently, like I just made an episode that's actually going to go up in a couple of hours. And it started from a Facebook question that someone asked, I don't know if you're inside the private Facebook group. But so inside the Thank you. Inside the private Facebook group, someone, a parent of a child said, Hey, I know there are a lot of adults in here. What you know, what would you what, what kind of advice would you give? Like, what did you learn from growing up with diabetes, right? And all kinds of different interesting directions. But one of the things that stuck out just now while you're talking to me, was that this adult believed that when their parents were harsh or angry, or you know, you have to do this, that it was really just fear coming out as anger, that they were just afraid for you and no,

Phoebe 39:12
no, absolutely. Right. Um, and, you know, it really is it was really was just fear, like, you know, I'm, I'm my mom's only child. And she like, if anything happens to me, she would just crumble, right? So she wants me to be healthy. She wants me to pop out like a million kids. And when I was younger, anytime that my blood sugar's were out of whack. Which, you know, back in the day, whack whack was, you know, below an eight, right? Okay, that was like the general consensus of the 90s and stuff.

Scott Benner 39:53
See that again? The below an eight a one c? Yeah. So if you were below in eight things were up Lie down. Oh,

Phoebe 40:00
great. Oh, that was no I was below in eight things were great. Okay, um, because back in the back in the day they preach the better high than low, right? Don't want her to go low. And now we're learning Well, we don't want them to go high either.

Scott Benner 40:17
So why just one. Why do we always pick one? Why is it always this or that in life? I'm stuck. Yeah, lately, no one can just see the nuance. It's always just this or that. It gets no, there's never. There's never a mix. I don't know. I know. And, you know, I've

Phoebe 40:35
started ever since listening to your podcast, I have gotten more aggressive with my insulin, and I'm at a 5.2 now, which was a huge success for me. I've been in like the low sixes for the past couple of years. But then I was like, Huh, Pre-Bolus in huh? All right, let's give that a whirl.

Unknown Speaker 40:56
Wanna see by a whole point? Yeah. That's cool.

Scott Benner 40:59
What about your spikes? How have they changed since you Pre-Bolus? What are they nor What did they once were

Phoebe 41:04
like now is like 160. Like, yeah, and I have my glucose or I have my Dexcom alarm set to like, 120 I wish I could set it lower because I but for some reason, it doesn't let me alert lower than 120. But whatever. Yeah, I don't know why. I don't know if it's the app or what have you.

Unknown Speaker 41:28
But I'll have to fiddle and

Scott Benner 41:30
figure that out. Neither here nor there. I am proud of you. I don't, I don't know you and you don't need my adulation. But it's nice to have regardless. That's very, that's lovely. I mean, how long did it take you to take a full point out of your Awan say? No, three months? Yeah, that's what I think too. I don't think it takes long at all. And I agree with you. 160 is the number where I start thinking, I messed this up. Like, you don't

Phoebe 41:58
feel good anymore at 160 I don't I get a little bit queasy. Um, and, you know, I'm, I'm 13 my husband and I have been talking about the baby thing. My my two good friends in California. They're both pregnant now. So apparently it's contagious. Yeah. And I was like, Alright, well, pregnancy is going to be a number. And he's like, well, you don't know that I'm like, I do. It's gonna, it's if even if it's an easy pregnancy, the diabetes part is gonna suck. And then if it's not an easy pregnancy, pregnancy is going to suck and diabetes is gonna suck. So we have an agreement that I'll be pregnant one, like, we'll get through a healthy pregnancy once and then I don't have to do it again.

Scott Benner 42:47
I don't do it. Your your verbiage is terrific there. If I was you, I would just trade those two cats in for a larger animal. And we're thinking about getting a puppy or something with a more human face. And I think you're finished Really? So are you Scott, I want to know about this. Are you scared to be pregnant?

Phoebe 43:05
A little bit? Yeah, it freaks me out one because you know, you have this thing growing in you and it like, that's just kind of odd, you know, in the first place. And then, you know, my diabetes is affected by every single decision that I make throughout the day, whether it's doing something or not doing something. And if I, if I mess it up, you know, it could hurt the baby. And people will try to be like, well, it's never your fault. Just manage your diabetes. I'm like, You're telling me two conflicting things. You're telling me to manage my diabetes. But if I don't manage my diabetes, and something happens, then it's not my fault. It's like you got to pick one or the other.

Scott Benner 43:46
There's a difference between the kind of comfort we give each other so that we all don't lose our minds. And what's real? Yeah, right. Yeah.

Phoebe 43:57
So you know, like, I would know that if something had happened, because I'd let my blood sugar's run high for a little bit. And I also know that it's not like one high blood sugar. It's consistent high blood sugars. So I'm basically right now I'm trying to practice pregnancy blood sugar's without being pregnant. I think I've gotten the hang of it a little bit.

Scott Benner 44:21
I think that's a great idea. Honestly. I have the time. We're not looking to do it anytime soon. So did the pro tip on pregnancy help you at all? Oh, yeah. That was actually the first one. The first few episodes that I listened to. Okay. Yeah. So and I was like, Huh, alright, so it's doable. It sounds terrible, but it sounds do hope. So your concern really is if I'm, if I can dig into this a little bit, your concern is that you think you can do it. Now you've proved that you can do it. Now. You're worried that you just arbitrarily won't do it or that something will happen so wonky But you can't Is that right?

Phoebe 45:02
Yeah, I'm scared that just because I can handle it without being pregnant and the added hormones and Gosh, I like I was talking to a doctor and they're like, we want you to eat a bajillion carbs a day. And I was like, Huh, I don't know. You know, like, they want you to eat, like 50 carbs at every meal and have breakfast lunch, dinner. Oh, and don't forget your 20 carbs of snacks. And I'm just like, so you want me to be in the two hundreds all the time, you're gonna ask, what's gonna happen, it's gonna be

Scott Benner 45:31
a lot more insulin is what it's gonna be. Yeah, gosh, I know, it's gonna be a lot more

Phoebe 45:35
to get my head around, like, all of my basil, right? So are between point eight and point nine. And the fact that it would have to go up to like, three is just like, it's, I know, it's the insulin that I'll need. And it's not going to cause me to tank because my body needs it. But it's still it's still a bit of a mind warp.

Scott Benner 45:57
Yeah, it's hard to wrap your head around. And it really is, I really want to I actually want to have somebody on to talk more about that. And I don't even know how to like, blend it into an episode or not. But it really makes all the sense in the world. And at the same time, from an outsider's perspective, oh, it's meaningless. To me, like, from my perspective, what I what is it? What does it matter? If it's point eight, or 1.8? Like, what?

Phoebe 46:27
I don't know. It's such a weird thing. And I can tell to like, Alright, if I don't exercise like my blood sugar's do start to creep up a little bit. So I make sure like I exercise every day. I just don't. I don't know. Maybe it's a pride thing

Scott Benner 46:42
about having that's that's the thing. I can't figure out because I do think, why is it so prideful to be like, I don't I don't use much insulin get me. Yeah, I. That's because you see it a lot with adults especially. And it's a big impediment for people making improvements. I even see this, like, Listen, somebody will come to me. You know, in my private life, they've got they've got blood sugars that are pretty consistently in the 250s. Yeah, with their kid, I can use a reason. They're just like, they need more insulin. Well, I'm like, this isn't hard to figure out. They treat by the time it's over. Like you're a genius. I'm like, Am I you know, like so but but the kids say the kids basil is point three. Right? Right. And I say I think the bass one needs to be more like point six. Well, they're like, Oh, my God, no, that's double. And I'm like, Yeah, what? Clearly, and your body needs it. So to dig into the psychology behind it, at some point that kids basil was point one, five, right? And point three is already doubled. And they can't imagine that one day that kid's gonna weigh 110 pounds, and his Basal is going to be 1.2 an hour, you know, he's or he's gonna be going through puberty. And that's just gonna, yeah. Which is then leads to why when ladies get their periods, they can't. They can't make that leap with their baselines on some helping Arden's friend the other day, I swear to you, if the FBI ever looks at my text messages, I think I'm at least gonna get investigated. Because I'm texting a 16 year old girl, you have to be sure and let me know when your period starts, which I'm assuming does not look good from the outside. Right. So So yeah, Shark Week just throws everything off. So this little girl's Basal doubles. For for her cycle goes from like, 1.2 an hour to like two in Basal. And if it doesn't her blood sugar's go right up in the 270s. They won't come down again. Wow. Just like that. Yeah,

Phoebe 48:42
for, for me. Shark Week causes not so much basil in sensitivity, but it seems like when I dose it takes longer for my insulin to start acting. So I have to Pre-Bolus even earlier, not necessarily a higher amount.

Unknown Speaker 49:01
But

Phoebe 49:02
and then of course, you know, it takes longer to start working, but then I feel like it's more sensitive. So if I don't time it right, I'll I'll spike and then I'll just tank.

Scott Benner 49:14
And I think I remember Samantha talking about that in her pregnancy like series about the Pre-Bolus being much. Right. Was that helpful to her? Did you hear her stuff?

Phoebe 49:24
Oh, yeah. No, it was it was great. I looked up every single pregnancy episode and listen to it. And it definitely calmed me down a bit. And then we also made an appointment with a maternal fetal metal medicine doctor, and he was like, yeah, you can start right now if you want. I was like, no.

Scott Benner 49:42
So the other piece of this has to be to is you have a I'm assuming a taxing job.

Phoebe 49:51
Um, it's not too bad. I have a I'm a safety engineer. So my role is a lot of document. patien and also just making sure that when someone does introduce like a new process and your chemical we go through the Okay, well, what if there's a reaction we didn't expect for what if we overpressure the system, what could go wrong and who can get hurt, things like that. And

Scott Benner 50:23
it's a desk job. Like you're

Unknown Speaker 50:26
part part desk part being involved with, like a research project.

Scott Benner 50:34
See, in my mind, this was like an 80s movie, and you had a white plastic helmet on a long white coat, you're holding a clipboard with safety goggles on walking around somewhere, checking things out. So I know I do that. Okay.

Phoebe 50:48
It's, it's a little bit of everything. Um, you know, I find it to be pretty entertaining. And it's, it's especially different with so you know, I'm in more research based role right now. And before I was in manufacturing, and manufacturing, so much more high paced than a research and development kind of thing. And, you know, the chemicals I used to work with in manufacturing were just nasty, nasty, nasty. Like, you cover the size of your palm with one of these chemicals, and it could cause heart arrhythmia, and you could die kind of nasty. Now,

Scott Benner 51:32
I'm in my mid 80s movie, Michael Keaton was in the helmet for some reason. Now let's try to figure out through my memory why that is? Hold on. Yeah. I'm gonna guess. It's a film called gung ho, where they were making cars. And I remember Michael Keaton, in garb slightly, like I've described, gung ho is not a good movie. Please don't watch it. But it was huge. Right in 1986. And now I'm going to find a picture of him. and with any luck, he's going to have a helmet on and be walking through a factory. George went was in this film. Do you remember George went from cheers by any chance? It brings a bell does it? My memory. I can't believe this is what passed for a movie when I was a child. And a teen. My kids are watching like Infinity War. And, you know, I'm watching Michael, one of my

Phoebe 52:32
one of my friends favorite movies and not sarcastically favorite, but like, her actual favorite movie was Big Trouble in Little China.

Scott Benner 52:42
Okay, it's acceptable. I'm just saying, when I was growing up, this is why you like Raiders of the Lost Ark. And Star Wars was so huge, because everything else was just it's like a it's like an independent. like four guys talking on screen. And sometimes a white lady would wander in and do a little, you know, expository dialogue and then leave again. She's writing this time for dinner. Things have grown since then. Anyway, well, gosh, I

Phoebe 53:14
forget why we were on this topic. But I don't know. We're talking. And I was like, we could never make a movie like Blazing Saddles. Oh, today. Yeah, we're not seeing the script would be burned.

Scott Benner 53:29
Like, we've insulted everyone who's alive. We can't do that. Can't do that. It'll come back around, by the way. I think so. Obviously, the the woke thing will fall asleep. Yeah. And, and, and everybody will be like, Oh, that's funny. Okay. Oh, this is funny again. Yeah. It's okay to be funny. Nobody means that, you know, no one's saying you should do that. That's exactly, definitely could happen. Might not I might be you know, I might be old enough to be one of your step brothers at that point. But by the time it comes around,

Unknown Speaker 54:05
but that Yeah,

Scott Benner 54:06
so I'm remiss here if I don't ask as we're talking about because we were talking about your kind of job because I was wondering if the work you did would interfere with being pregnant at all seems like you'll be okay. Yeah. Is there any? And this is not why you came on. So I feel bad asking this but I feel like this led us to Is there any like voice in the back of your head that's like, oh, if I have a baby, I'm gonna get divorced. No, no, you don't like have like that. Like, like, Andrew is far too good to let go ever. Okay. So usually the problem if your

Phoebe 54:42
issue is the diabetes, gotcha. It's just freaky to me. I just didn't know and do you know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, yeah, no, no, no. And Andrews just, he is, like, one of the best men that I not like he's one of the best people I've ever met. And, you know, he's, he's, he's caring. He's smart. He's funny. And he's the kind of funny that it's like it's not obvious right away. But as you as he like, warms up to you, he starts cracking out these one liners. And then you realize like, Oh my God, this kid's hilarious.

Scott Benner 55:24
Phoebe Do you guys like tell math jokes each other while you're having sex just be true. History actually chemistry, okay, I wasn't sure

Phoebe 55:36
I prefer, you know there's a mass pickup line and it's like, Hey girl, can I be your derivative so I can lay tangent to your curves. And my response to that is, I'd rather you be my integral. So you can take up the space beneath me.

Scott Benner 55:57
Everyone, that's how smart people hear humor. Just say you're not smart people get pregnant. That's how they get pregnant, they make a blueprint first. And then they get together and meet a number of different times over zoom to make sure that it's gonna work out. And they plan a day off into the future. And then they also have an extra day in case that day doesn't work. That's it, I By the way, thank God, people can think like you were I'd be washing my hair with, you know, welfare, I just

Phoebe 56:26
make sure no one, I just make sure no one gets hurt. And if they do get hurt, I figure out how that happened and make sure it doesn't happen again.

Scott Benner 56:33
That's a pretty cool job. It's fun. I enjoy it. I would see it's interesting, I would think you would my wife has a job that if she sat and described it to people, most people I think would be like,

Phoebe 56:44
Oh, god, that's our jobs are very similar in that we're both dealing with federal and state regulations. And we have to make sure that those regulations are applied and followed. And if something goes wrong, we have to fix it, essentially. So because I think you mentioned once she works for like the FDA or something she she

Scott Benner 57:07
works in drug safety. So not not the government side. But so she she very much makes sure that what's happening on the company side is safe for the people who are eventually going to end up with whatever it is they're working on. Git, right? It's very detail oriented. And there's a ton of laws and rules, and you kind of need to know them. It's not like, you know what I mean? Like, it's Yeah, it's like a stop sign. You can't see, you have to know what's there and stop, but no one's gonna tell you it's not there. And if you don't stop, they are going to come along and give you a ticket. It's a very interesting knowledge. Yes.

Phoebe 57:46
Yeah. And I my knowledge bank is, oh, we need to increase the exhaust velocity, because there was an incident that happened in Italy, or Colorado where people were painting and it caught on fire and five people died. So that's what my knowledge bank is, is all of the chemical industries, major accidents for not following safety regulations. And

Scott Benner 58:14
you don't have to just know your company, you have to know what's happening everywhere, because it might have happened to another company and it would apply to you at some point. Yeah, yes. Interesting. No, and it takes, listen, I'm not gonna lie to you. Like, I watched my wife work sometimes. Especially now. She's been she's been you know, she took her over our dining room for like, the last seven months. Yeah. There are not a lot of people who could do what she's doing. And she's exceedingly good at it. It's it's really, like fascinating. I her brain must be firing a million miles an hour. Yeah, if you put me in that job. I would just, I beg I don't know. What do you guys think? Nobody said anything. I must be okay. No. All right. Fine, then move on. Then fine. People are dead. The painting booth somewhere like that. Yeah. So well, it. It's it'll be fun. So cool. So what do you do now? Like, how do you manage what's your gear? So I have a Dexcom. And a tandem insulin pump are using the control IQ.

Phoebe 59:20
Yeah, that's not aggressive enough for me. It sets your target at 110. And if you get to 90, it cuts back on your basil. And I'm like, but I want to be at 90 don't don't cut back on my Basal.

Scott Benner 59:32
So I just got where I'm going. And now you're making me leave.

Phoebe 59:36
Yeah, so I found that it just, it was, too. What's the word I'm looking for? It was too non aggressive. You know, it wants you. I mean, for I'm sure for people who are like bouncing all over from 400 to 40. Every day, multiple times a day, I'm sure it's like a godsend. Yeah, but I wasn't at that. Point and now I'm trying to be like, hey, if I could hang out at 85 all day, I call that a plus, that'd be alright. And for me, I my ish. Like, I'm not scared of lows. I, like I know a lot of diabetics are just absolutely terrified of low blood sugars, right? I don't know if because when I was a kid, I had a number of seizures. I had a seizure when I was by myself living in Kentucky, got myself out of that. But those lows Don't scare me, maybe because I've seen the worst. High is on the other hand, like, I don't like highs and lows are easier to fix. You chug your Gatorade, and in about 10 minutes, you're coming back up. Whereas with a high, it's half an hour before the evil, the insulin even starts working. And then, you know, another hour before it peaks. And then finally, like two hours later, you're coming down so well, I just think a low is so much easier to fix.

Scott Benner 1:01:07
It's so funny. I had a question that I knocked out of my own head by laughing I was gonna say something like, I built you up to be smart. And then you said that non aggressive or aggressive and I was like, No, you let me down there. But But now I'm just wondering if you found yourself on the floor in Kentucky thinking I am not dying and Kentucky by myself.

Phoebe 1:01:28
I thought that what happened was I woke up one morning, I'm like, Oh, I don't feel good. And I stood up and I had an open container of glucose tabs on my desk. And as I was falling to the ground, I managed to knock the glucose tabs off of the nightstand. And they were about six inches from my face. And I started convulsing. I was completely conscious the whole time, which was bizarre. Um, and I just was like, EFF this I not dying in Paducah. And I managed to like, like, you know, in the Princess Bride, when after he eats the miracle pill, he like flings his arm Yes, like move around. I basically did that. And I got a hold of like three glucose tabs and shoved him in my mouth. And then, uh, and then I regained motor function, and I shoved like 10 more in my mouth. And then I called Andrew and he's like, why are you on the i facetimed? Him? He's like, why are you on the floor? I was like, I think had a seizure. But I'm not sure. But I don't feel good. He was like, Okay, I'm like, What are you doing? He's like, I'm getting the number for the paramedics just in case I lose you. I was like already.

Scott Benner 1:02:50
And I'm busy telling Alexa to play low. But we didn't have one. That was that was before. Before Alexa, I'm just impressed that an engineer had enough hand eye coordination to knock something on the floor as they were falling. What do you think of that? Well, I play soccer. Oh, really? They don't like my hands and soccer though. I was a goalie. Oh, well, kid you you have an answer for every one of my questions.

Phoebe 1:03:15
Yes. I was also concussed one. So maybe that's why I'm not good with words. of soccer ball hit you in the head a little too hard. No, someone kicked me in the head. Oh, that's worse. For weeks, I was like, when are we gonna make up this game that we missed? And my teammates were like, thieves. You missed. Miss. We didn't miss that game.

Scott Benner 1:03:36
I was like, y'all played it. You sat on the side and said weird stuff for like an hour and a half. Hopefully you went back in I was probably not a good idea to really try to play again. My coach put me back in Yeah, that's not I saw my my son's catcher one time, took a foul ball. It came right through and hit him in the helmet. He caught a little longer before he came out of the game. And it was a doubleheader. And I spoke to him hours later, after all the games are over. And he's like, I only really remember like the last half hour what's going on right now. Like, he was gone. He played afterwards for little I doesn't remember playing like no,

Phoebe 1:04:13
no, I don't remember anything from that day. And then later, I was getting headaches. And my mom took me to a doctor. And she's like, you know, have you had any injuries in the past few months. I was like, Well, I was kicked in the head. And my mom looked at me because she didn't go to my soccer games because she would panic anytime someone came near me with the ball. So I eventually told her I was like, you gotta just not

Scott Benner 1:04:38
come. I thought she didn't come because it was soccer.

Unknown Speaker 1:04:41
No, no, she she would she would yell like, oh, watch out. Oh, sweetheart. And that would be like, Mom,

Scott Benner 1:04:47
stop. Everyone should know.

Phoebe 1:04:49
And I was like, you don't have to come. Yeah. And then. And then she was like, wait, you didn't tell me this. I was like, Oh yeah, I probably forgot.

Scott Benner 1:04:59
I I want you and everyone listening to know that at this point in the life of the podcast, I only tease about soccer because of one person listening. So I'm sure if you're listening still, one former collegiate soccer player who wants emailed me and said, Please stop making fun of soccer. I'm literally just doing it with you. Just so you know. Excellent. It just makes me happy to tease and think that there's one person out there. That's like, Why won't he stop making fun of soccer? It's a nice sport.

Phoebe 1:05:37
A I don't like like one of the few sports that women can play where you can still hit each other and it's fine. What about roller drives? I thought about joining a roller derby team when I was in Kentucky, because there's nothing else to do. And I thought that would be fun. I gotta

Scott Benner 1:05:52
be honest, if anyone's listening who does roller derby? Right? I would like you to be on the show.

Phoebe 1:05:58
One of the things. I did jujitsu for a little bit, but then I went back on a pump and a CGM. I was like, this is gonna get ripped off. And they're too expensive. Just so.

Scott Benner 1:06:09
So yeah. So throughout your life, and we're gonna wrap up because we're up on time but but throughout your life, doing regular and mph as a kid and everything you have any recollection from what you're a one sees whereby you just think, were they actually under eight? Or was that just the goal?

Phoebe 1:06:25
under eight was the goal, I would probably I was probably floating around eight for most of my childhood, okay. And then college happen, then I wish I had a Dexcom in college because I hate checking my blood sugar. I loathe it. Some I like I get that's for some people. It's automatic. And it's no big deal. But for me, I was lucky if I was testing three times a day, right? Because I just hated it. And I hated seeing the high numbers. And it would be like, I would have a beer. And then dinner time would come around. And I knew I was going to be high because beer has carbs. So I'm just not going to check. And I'm just going to dose. And obviously with the Dexcom that kind of takes care of everything because I can just look at my phone real quick. But yeah, it was, I was happy to be in the eights. I I never got into the double digits. But that was probably mostly luck. And now that I have the data and the technology, you know, I can still have like, the snacks and if I if I forget to look at my pump after eating a few crackers, I can be like, just give that insulin real quick. All right, I'm at Oh, maybe I'm okay. Yeah, um, I'm back in the day. I just loved checking my blood sugar. And that's probably why I was running higher. We have been

Scott Benner 1:07:54
a lot. So I got my wife is irritating me. Maybe it's just because we're early in our marriage. But Andrew doesn't irritate me. She's texting me She needs to know something, right? Which is fine. And, and so she sent me a text, which I ignored. Because I'm doing something. We're doing stuff. And now I'm getting, you know, multiple text messages. So she's setting up a new laptop for work, her laptop just died. They sent her another one, she's got to get it set up, right. So I get a picture of a screen that's asking for our Wi Fi password. Which by the way, is the same, you know, I already have to bleep earlier. So I now they'll be asleep during reading. It's the same Wi Fi password that we've had for 25 years. And then I get new laptop. So now it's for the picture. My phone buzzes under my leg, and then it buzzes again, because I don't answer the picture. Then she sends new laptop that buzzes then it buzzes a second time, then it comes in Hello. Then I say I'm recording. And then I send our Wi Fi password through tax which now I'm assuming the NSA has, and it's not going to be long now before bill Barr is using my Wi Fi. Right and and so and then she goes Oh, nevermind. I got it.

Unknown Speaker 1:09:18
Been kidding me.

Phoebe 1:09:20
I was so I've been trying really hard not to swear because I have a mouth like a sailor grew up for a bit in Boston and you know, in the Philly area. So for me. I'm going to have the kid that teaches all the other kids the swear words. I just know it. Like watch my child's first word be like, or something like that. Um, and I was I was joking in my head before coming on. I was like, oh, we're gonna have to make this an after dark because Phoebe has a sailor's mouth. But so you did well, I cursed. Not you know, I was like, oh, once he curses. I'll be good.

Scott Benner 1:09:58
The biggest problem with cursing is that When I'm editing, I have to stop and bleep and all that it just takes more time. Although, I mean, if you're gonna text me seven times about the Wi Fi password that you got them, Well, no, I'm gonna have to be. Alright, so hold on one second. So you were saying, but if anybody can follow this, they have aged ADHD, that's for sure. Seriously, but you were you were you were talking about your management when you were younger. And once these were where they were, I was wondering, is there looking back regular an MPH? Was there any way to really affect it? Like, how could you have affected it? Back then, and he had a meter right. But you didn't use it very frequently, if at all probably wasn't super active. I mean,

Phoebe 1:10:39
when I when I was a young kid, it was better because I was more under my parents. Watch. But once I turned like 13, and I was pretty much on my own. My checking got a little more laps. But with Yeah, with regular and mph, really it was dose, eat at the right time dose again, eat at the right time. So there there really, there's not a lot of tweaking you can do with that system. It's meant to keep you alive. It's really not meant to

Scott Benner 1:11:10
manage down your stuff like that. Yeah. Now, how. So when you were speaking about college was interesting. You said something that kind of flared My, my, my head a little bit, you said that you would think oh, I drank beer, so my blood sugar's high. So I'll just give myself insulin, but would eventually lead to checking. So you had to check. But you were swapping checking to make a good decision for checking to save your life, when you could have just like reminded me of sleep? Do you ever give to somebody who can't sleep on a schedule, and you say they're always tired, and they're sleeping, and you say, look, if you just went to bed four hours earlier, you'd get up, you'd get up four hours earlier, your life would be on the process of the sun, the way your brains meant to be, and you'd feel better and etc. You it all makes this. It's not like you have to be at a job at one o'clock in the morning, you're just physically making the decision not to go to sleep, just slide the clock a different way and start over. And similarly, had you just moved the blood sugar check to where it would have been held for you. None of this all would happen, but and you're a bright person. So my question is, why does that not? I don't mean just for you. I think a lot of people struggle with this.

Phoebe 1:12:24
I think I just, I just it would be like, well, I've already messed up this blood sugar, might as well just lean into it and see if I can maybe fix it later. and hope for the best because it was very much a I don't want to know if I'm high. So I'm just gonna

Unknown Speaker 1:12:47
ignore it.

Scott Benner 1:12:48
But eventually you'll be high and then you'll have to know.

Phoebe 1:12:52
Yeah, I mean, eventually you'll you'll know just from the way you feel. And but of course, you know, as your blood sugar's stays elevated, you get a little more used to it being elevated. So, you know, you feel fine, but you're not fine.

Scott Benner 1:13:07
You know, you're perfectly describing dieting. Seriously, like, you know, you get up in the morning, you're like this morning, I'm gonna have two eggs and a half a piece of rye toast and a cup of coffee. And I'm gonna give myself because you're like, you take a bite, you're like, well, hell, if I'm gonna have a bite, I might as well have three waffles somehow that's the leap. You know?

Phoebe 1:13:27
It's very much that. I don't know, there's I think there's like there's some kind of folly or something that has it has an actual name, but I forget what it is. But it's very much of a well, I already messed up this one time, might as well just lead into it, trying

Scott Benner 1:13:43
to figure out what part of the brain lights up for that because it's the same thing, right, like so now that I've had the waffles when lunch comes, I'm not going to have, you know, a water crunch. Right. So now I'm like, I ate waffles this morning. As you know, we should probably get pizza. And then you know, you get pizza. And then you're like popping candy in the oven. And then you don't feel well. And you're like, Oh, I shouldn't eat like that. And then you know, I'm going to get better. Yeah. And then in the morning, you're like, oh, two eggs. I'm gonna poach him. I think this time, little rye toast, blah, blah, blah, kid comes running through the room with those little muffins that come in the package that you know, aren't food and you're like, Oh, those things are great. You're popping them in your mouth. And the next thing you know, you weigh 65 pounds more than you mean. Right. So so seriously, I think it's the same thing.

Phoebe 1:14:28
It's probably very similar. It's just, uh, it's, it really is a well I already messed this up instead of you know, just trying to deal with it and fix it and you know, as as a kid, like, No one likes to see that your blood sugar's high because especially I don't know if it's just from I feel like the the attitude has definitely shifted from when I was younger, but it was very much a that blood sugar is bad and it means you're not do Doing in means you're doing bad with your diabetes, and it was very much not a. Okay, this is the number. Let's fix it and move on. Okay, um, which I think is a much better approach. Yeah, you know not to assign good or bad to a number. It's just here's the data, use the data, and then move on with your life. Yeah. Which is what I'm starting to see, like more like in the chats and like the, you know, when someone says, like, oh, what's the best piece of advice? Everyone goes, don't assign a moral value to a number,

Scott Benner 1:15:38
right? Well, it's also interesting when you're because you're talking about social media. I also think that social media draws in people who are in a certain part of the process, too.

Phoebe 1:15:50
Yeah. So that has always been my issue with like, joining some of the diabetic groups, because you see, you know, you also and a lot of times, that's like the same thing with like Yelp. People don't. People rarely write good review, because I had a great time, they want to write a bad review. So everyone knows that they had a horrible time at your favorite restaurant? Yeah. You know, the people posting online, or there are a lot of times they're, they're in a bad, they're in a bad place, or they're not taking care of their diabetes, or they're just so new and confused. It's just a lot of negativity sometimes, and, but it's not even the people. It's their situation.

Scott Benner 1:16:31
Right. And so, that's why I mean, seriously,

Phoebe 1:16:36
and then, and then sometimes I feel like, it comes across as judgmental. But you know, you see, like people's graphs, and they're like, I was 100% in range. And I was like, Yeah, but your blood sugar still went to 200. But you're in range goes up to 250. Like, why is it so high? You should lower that sucker down.

Scott Benner 1:16:53
That's their first step. Their first step is I picked the range, I stayed in it, and then you hope that their next step is to

Phoebe 1:17:00
lower the range. Yeah. Right. And then I you know, and then you get the responses. Well, I don't want the Dexcom beeping at me. It's like, that's what it's for. That you because if you don't get high, you don't get high.

Scott Benner 1:17:18
I my carbon monoxide detector woke us up. Stop wants that paper, I should take the batteries out of the way the cat's dead. Like, you know, like, so. I wonder what that's about? All the birds dead? Why am I hallucinating? So how did you fix it? Well, we threw out the carbon monoxide detector. Now, I just it's interesting, because if you talk to me or other people have been around for a really, really long time. It just cycles, online cycles and cycles. And I will have conversations with people. And I'll see them pop up in different threads. And then one day, five, six months later, they're just gone. Like you'll see I'm talking about how good their blood sugar's are. And then they'll realize, like, I can go live my life again. Yeah. And that's amazing. But it's hard to remember that in the moment, because at some point, when you've heard your 9,000,000th person make the same complaint, it takes a special person to go Hey, that's okay. And start from scratch. And I am literally calling myself a special person in this situation, because I am the most special Well, at least close to the bestest and because I have the temperament to not feel like, oh, why do these people because I realized these people, quote unquote, are not the same people from yesterday. And right, you know, but a lot of sometimes that doesn't happen. You can see when people reach their social media tipping point, because they conflate everyone together into like one person.

Phoebe 1:18:47
But yeah, for me, it was just it was more negativity than I wanted to deal with. And, and I don't know if this was because how it was raised, but a lot of Oh, woe is me. This is the worst. Like, I'm not saying that diabetes doesn't suck because it does. If I had the option, I would totally go like, be on the experimental trial for a cure, right? Or if I was like, if I could go back or if like a genie would pop up and say like, what's your one wish? I'd be like, get rid of type one diabetes. You know, like, I would totally do that. But once you once you start using the data and figuring things out for yourself, it it it really is okay, I still have days where something throws me off or I get a little sick and like I'm floating in the 150s 160s all day so and then I don't feel so great. Or you know, I have Thai food and misjudged it and now I'm at 220 like it definitely happens. But it those are fewer and further between them when I was a kid.

Scott Benner 1:19:55
I think that's possible to yeah managed to get to. I really do.

Phoebe 1:19:59
Yeah. It's it's like, you know, like, yeah, I can't spontaneously just be like, I'm gonna go to this place for a week like, No, I have to pack insulin and I have to pack my pump supplies. But I mean, you have to pack underwear for a trip. It's the same thing.

Scott Benner 1:20:17
It's all in the way you see it and plus, those people didn't have your dad who was like, hey, look, you're gonna do this by yourself?

Phoebe 1:20:24
Yeah, I know, like it. Like, sometimes I read like how, like, sometimes I hear, like, how involved you are with art in and I'm like, I think it's great. But at the same time in the back of my head, like, if Scott was like, if he had to get surgery for a day, right? And he couldn't answer like,

Unknown Speaker 1:20:42
would she be okay? Like, she handle it? Yeah, she'd be fine.

Phoebe 1:20:46
I'm sure because I'm sure you're teaching her as like you're helping her. You know, with, hey, we should give this but you know, it's it's all of that a while she's gonna leave the house. Not too long. And she's gonna go to middle of nowhere Kentucky where there's not going to be a good Wi Fi signal. And

Scott Benner 1:21:09
Kentucky gets better Wi Fi in case my kid wants to go to college. Well, if you'd be you were really delightful. Thank you for doing this. I appreciate it. Yeah, it was fun. It's a really good time. I liked when I said we're coming up on time. And you were like, really? Cool. That's good news. Because you weren't, you weren't sitting over there going.

Unknown Speaker 1:21:26
chatty, so you're chatty, you were very chatty. Which is perfect, by the way, which is great for a podcast. Really?

Scott Benner 1:21:34
Yeah. There's been a couple of people over the years who were just like, please say more words, please. I'm running out of the say you gotta say.

Unknown Speaker 1:21:43
There's a lot of dead space. Kai, when you start when I start running

Scott Benner 1:21:47
out of words, you're in trouble, because I can talk forever. Sure. Oh, cool. Well, seriously, thank you so much. First, I want to thank Phoebe because she was terrific. And then I want to thank the Contour Next One blood glucose meter, because it's terrific. And you can find out more about how terrific it is at Contour Next one.com, forward slash juicebox. And to my longest standing sponsor on the pod, thank you, thank you, thank you. Find out if you're eligible for that free 30 day trial of the Omni pod dash at Omni pod.com Ford slash juicebox. There are links to these and all of the sponsors at Juicebox Podcast comm are right there in the show notes of your podcast player, or you're not listening in a podcast player. You should be it's a really easy way and free way to listen. And of course, we'll just let the music drift off here. If you're looking for a way to support the show, it's simple. Share it with someone who you think might be interested. Subscribe in the app you're listening in, or follow like if you're in Spotify follow if you're an Apple Music, I think it's or if you're an apple podcast, I think that's follow now some of them are subscribed. Just subscribe or follow, subscribe or follow. tell somebody about the show. Leave a great review wherever you listen, these things would be incredibly helpful. And if you'd like to join up with other listeners and talk about diabetes, there's a Juicebox Podcast private Facebook page. It is there for you to use as you will I believe 12,000 users right now and growing every day Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes, and of course supporting the T one day exchange by joining their registry and answering their quick survey also supports the show. And this ends the how to support the podcast that portion of the podcast. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back soon with another episode of the Juicebox Podcast.


Please support the sponsors

The Juicebox Podcast is a free show, but if you'd like to support the podcast directly, you can make a gift here. Recent donations were used to pay for podcast hosting fees. Thank you to all who have sent 5, 10 and 20 dollars!

Donate

#493 We Are Diabetes

Scott Benner

Asha Brown is an adult type 1 and founder of We Are Diabetes.

We Are Diabetes is a non-profit organization devoted to providing much needed support, education, guidance and hope to individuals living with type 1 diabetes who struggle with disordered eating behaviors.

You can always listen to the Juicebox Podcast here but the cool kids use: Apple Podcasts/iOS - Spotify - Amazon MusicGoogle Play/Android - iHeart Radio -  Radio PublicAmazon Alexa or wherever they get audio.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT


DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:11
Hello friends and welcome to Episode 493 of the Juicebox Podcast On today's episode, Asha Brown is here. Asha is a person who has been living with Type One Diabetes for quite some time. And she's also the creator of we are diabetes. We are diabetes is a nonprofit organization devoted to providing much needed support education, guidance and hope to individuals living with Type One Diabetes to struggle with disordered eating behaviors. Family members and loved ones of those who are struggling are also welcome and encouraged to reach out to the organization. We are diabetes.org. Please remember, while you're listening that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan, or becoming bold with insulin.

Before we get started, I'd like to remind you about the T one D exchange. The T one D exchange is looking for type one adults and type one caregivers who are us residents to participate in a quick survey that can be completed in just a few minutes from your phone or your computer. After you finish the questions. They only took me about seven minutes, you're done. This is 100% anonymous, completely HIPAA compliant. And you'll never have to go to a doctor or remote site. And yet, you'll still be helping people with type one diabetes. You can help with research for type one without going to a site or visiting a doctor. And this is how you can do it. T one d exchange.org. forward slash juicebox. Go to the link. Click on join our registering now and then just complete the survey. It's that easy. Pass participants like you have helped to bring increased coverage for test trips, Medicare coverage for CGM, and changes in the ADA guidelines for pediatric a one c goals. And it's exciting to imagine what your participation will lead to while you're on the internet, doing good things, check out touched by type one touch by type one.org. also find them on Facebook and Instagram. Here's Asha.

Asha Brown 2:46
Hi, I'm Asha Brown, the founder and executive director of We Are Diabetes. I also live with Type One Diabetes among other autoimmune diseases.

Scott Benner 2:55
Okay, so I'm gonna say something that you won't take wrong, please. No, I, you are a person who I am aware of peripherally, but I don't think you and I have ever spoken directly. No, this is our first time right now. Right? And at the same time, I have. My wife asked me last night who's on the show who you're recording with tomorrow. I told her. And she said, How come you're having her on and I said, I get a really good vibe from her. Oh, and that's all I had. She's like, that's it. I'm like, Yeah, I get a really good vibe from her. And I said, and she's friendly with people who I also get a good vibe from.

Unknown Speaker 3:32
So

Asha Brown 3:32
you know, I think the good vibe concept and and however you want to, you know, phrase that is what builds very strong communities?

Scott Benner 3:43
I think so I also think that you're from Let me ask you like, when did you start being visible around diabetes? How did that all happen?

Asha Brown 3:51
So that's, that's an interesting question. Because at age five, when I was diagnosed, and then started my professional film career, what a year for my parents. I was actually doing advocacy work with my dad, who's also a type one. And we were featured on the front of Ada diabetes forecast, holiday magazines, blah, blah, blah. But you know, that was back in early 90s. Then I disappeared and had a, you know, an entire unraveling of self. When I came back to life and to the world of social media. And launched we are diabetes. We started in, you know, we began in January 2012. And I still feel like I'm new to technology. But I started connecting with the DRC specifically around that time and ever since then, just like you said, I I really love people. And I like to talk and that is how I've gotten to know everyone that I know.

Scott Benner 4:48
Now it's very cool. So by 2012 I think I'm at this about four or five years by 2012. And I'm just beginning to understand And that other people do what I do. Is that is that, right? Because that's how sort of disjointed the internet was at some point.

Asha Brown 5:08
Yeah, right. Yeah. And that was very everything was starting that I feel like

Scott Benner 5:13
Yeah. Now it just and and the the idea of a diabetes community, it's funny, I think, I don't want to I would never want to speak for anyone. But I think in the beginning, the idea was there were these eight or 10 people. And it was widely believed that they were the core of the diabetes community, right. And I, that they are in my head, right. And I have trouble not thinking of it that way, as well. Like, these are the people who kind of stepped out first. And because I did it, it's interesting. I didn't do it on WordPress. And because I didn't do it on WordPress, I had no SEO. So I was growing word of mouth. But I was not one of the people who anyone was, like, centrally aware of which I ended up believing was really good for, for it in general, because it got to grow at its own pace. But But as the years have gone on, I've come more to think of the community as the people at impacts not the people who are generating content for it. I love that. Okay, that's how I say,

Asha Brown 6:17
and no one has ever said that to me, Scott. But that is exactly how I think of it to simply because of the work I do. Because it is so centralized around my clients and the you know, reach out, you know, the people that come to me and reach out. So diabetes community, and more specifically my community it is it is exactly that it's the people that are part of it, not the people that are spearheading blogging it creating it,

Scott Benner 6:47
the way I think of it is I think it feeds from the out the perimeter to the back into the content creators, like if I make something and nobody cares about it, it'll be obvious to me because I have metrics, and I'll see that nobody cares. Yeah, then I'll just go away. Right? And, but there are people who turn and turn and turn stuff that doesn't get heat or reflected back, or doesn't vibe with people. And that's not the I don't think of that as community. I think I think of the feeling that there are people in the world who were putting out information that hopefully helps you. And if it finds you, and it's valuable for you, then that feeling is the community. I hope that makes sense.

Asha Brown 7:35
No, I love that. And I want to I want to let's piggyback on that. Let's take a piggyback ride. With that being said, what you were just saying about, you get a good feeling from me, that is also part of this, it's an essential part, because who cares how many people visit your website or your website or know about this or that, if it helps you, then it's part of the community. And this concept of inclusivity, although I feel like that word has, it's like the new kale, you know, for for many reasons, important reasons. You know, don't don't get mad at Asha for saying that. But it's but it there's this sense that it has to just, there's no you don't need to grip it, you know, it just it's a good feeling. And it helps you then it's part of it. There doesn't need to be more than that. And there's space for everybody who wants to be part of it. Right?

Scott Benner 8:27
And because it's virtual, I mean, so the word translates community translates. But it's not like, I'm at home and I live in this town and eight of us get together every Thursday and make a potluck dinner and sit down in the room. It does sound fun. Yeah, of course, we're never gonna probably do that again. But I I do understand that. But it's not it's not apples for apples exactly the same thing to me for me, right? It's a woman who said out loud. A Piedra works better for my son than novalogic. And I thought, I'll try that. It's for the first person who said to me, are you going to try a CGM? And I said, I don't know what that is. Yeah, you know, like, right, like, it builds and builds and builds. And then those people have to feed other people. Because no one I used to have this dream, where there'd be a centralized hub where everyone's writing would be. Oh, yeah. And I thought that was the only way to like really serve people and then when you stop and think about it, and then people are, you know, some people are selling ads, and they're making money and it's not gonna it's not gonna work, right. But you know, in a utopian world, that was gonna be the only way for everybody to see everything

Asha Brown 9:45
would be a lot easier and save more time Google searching. Yeah,

Scott Benner 9:47
certainly would and and so at one point, I was like, that's the idea. And I just was like, no, that's not gonna work. And then you know, so you keep going on and on. And now what I've come to believe is that it's it's all about value. So I think this podcast has its its listeners, because one of them hears it, finds it to be valuable and tell someone else about it. That's it, how it works. And if it doesn't work that way for you, then, you know, you keep doing what you're doing, if it makes you happy, but, you know,

Asha Brown 10:20
you know, this actually circles right around to what you first said, is that I know of you. And you have been on my periphery, you know, since I started, I mean, what you do, and just your name has been around for a long time. And I've always gotten a good feeling about you, even though this is the first time we're having, you know, communicate them. Yeah,

Scott Benner 10:42
I appreciate that. Well, listen, at the core of all this. I used to cry in the shower, because I thought I was killing my daughter. And then I figured out how not to do that. And I thought, well, that's something I should tell somebody else. And that's pretty much it. And look at how many people you've helped. That's, I mean, that's just beautiful. Did you come on here to say nice things to me? Because that's not necessary. It's one of my favorite things to do. Oh, please say nice things. To cut you off. I'm terrific. Keep talking. No, no. No, but seriously, it's um, it probably feels trite to hear but it's one of the most fulfilling things I've ever done as an adult, is to watch someone come through and say, hey, guess what? My variability decreased. My time and range increased, my agency went down, I feel better. Or I have one note that sticks in my head forever. Word for word. I used to think my daughter was a bitch. And then we got her blood sugar's lower and stable. And it turns out, she was just tormented by her blood sugar swings

Asha Brown 11:53
at swing suck, especially for girls, just women in general. So hormonal disruption? Oh my gosh,

Scott Benner 11:59
it's like having three. It's like, it's like managing three people's diabetes every 30 days. And yeah, I would agree with that. No One No One yells at you. We're switching to her now. It just happened? Wouldn't it be nice if there was a chart for that? light on your forehead? That would go for amber? bright red, bright red. Right. But no, it's just very, um, I always think back. I don't know that person. Obviously, they just sent a note. But I think what if her whole life with her daughter would have been spent thinking that they had some horrible personality conflict, and they just ended up growing apart because of that, like, that would be just heartbreaking. And why why what helped her no one had a Pre-Bolus understanding how insulin works, you know, II mean, like, that's education

Asha Brown 12:50
can go such a long way. And although it's, you know, it's a different concept. I know for me personally, when my blood sugar's got regulated, after I went to treatment, and something that I experienced with my clients now is, there's a lot of diagnosis, stuff flying around, you know, bipolar depression, and some of and I'm not making light of it. But it's often very difficult to get a firm diagnosis. For a mental state, when your blood sugars have been uncontrolled for a long period of time, you know, and it's pretty amazing how a lot of that softens, when the diabetes control is better.

Scott Benner 13:33
Yeah, well, they're not perfect, but better. There's too many variables. It's hard to know it. So on the podcast, there was a gentleman on a long time ago, he was a barrister from Canada. And he made this fancy Yeah, he's a lawyer in Canada, which I think means I think he just defends like Tim Hortons and stuff like that. But it's not it's um, but he, but he made the point one day that when you're talking to witnesses, he said it like this. He said, some people see a man put a pencil in his pocket and rob a bank and come to the conclusion that pencils caused bank robbery. And, like, right, I'm like, I'm getting what you're saying here. And now when you look, you see people all the time, say, you know, my finger hurts. My hands got to be hurt. Nobody ever thinks there's a something pinched in their shoulder, you know, II mean, or, you know, she's crazy, or she's out of control, or she's just she's a bitch. Like, that's what that woman said. Right? None of that's true. So why don't you tell us a little bit about like your story. You said you unraveled a little bit and came back together. What does that mean?

Asha Brown 14:35
Oh, man. No, it's interesting because I'm, I'm working on a new way to share my story right now. So I'll try to circle back to that in a minute. I yeah, I've lived with chronic illness. My whole life. I was diagnosed with type one and five hashimotos came pretty quickly after that, but it was extremely undramatic just because my dad So live with Type One Diabetes. So what I remember is that, leading up to the diagnosis, I was eating triple Decker peanut butter and banana sandwiches for my bedtime snack, before storytime and then peeing all night long. And so my dad was like, Oh, my God, well, here we go, right. And there you go, at life, you know, with type one as a child was, was still fine for me. And again, I also had this amazing theater and film career that started really quickly after that. And, you know, I've lived a lovely magical childhood. But I am a young woman, and a young woman being in the arts, in this society and culture, who not only has type one and thyroid disease, but was then diagnosed with pcls, which is polycystic ovarian syndrome in high school. Those are a lot of factors playing against you, and the literature and information available in the 90s. about all of these conditions, with crap, just total crap, there was no differentiation between someone living with type one and type two. And it was mostly scare tactic information that I was able to find. So by age 16, I was in a deep rebellion and very angry. I felt like my body was doing me that, you know, no matter what I did, I was going to be fat, not with no legs and probably blind. And, you know, I just, I was deeply angry. So I developed an eating disorder, and many other very terrible coping mechanisms for over a decade.

Scott Benner 16:49
Okay. Are you willing to share them? Or is that enough?

Asha Brown 16:52
Oh, you know, I was. I don't know if we have enough time to go that deep about that. How about that? goes along with what I said before, I think before we started, or maybe we were already recording, I don't know. I've lived many lives. I've lived many lives. And I've met a lot of people. And I've also I have pockets of time that unfortunately, I don't remember things just because of my choices of illegal substances at the time. Gotcha. How about that? How about that

Scott Benner 17:25
I have an episode just went up the other day, where young girl about 27 came on, and for two hours, shared what it was like to get hooked on oxy cotton, and go to heroin, and she's trying to kick it still. And she has type one. Absolutely, like, heartbreaking and fascinating. Really, you know, it was really something

Asha Brown 17:50
I enjoy. You know, it's funny, because I think that people that live with type, I don't know, some, some will agree with me on this is we, our bodies go through so much. And we get kind of used to these irregularities and a lot of strange feelings people don't ever experience on a daily basis, you know, even get alone in their lifetime. But we feel these rises and falls and all sorts of things, just things happening in our body. And I, for me, it gave me the sense of not superiority, but kind of like, you know, well, I can't, I'm going to try really hard not to swear it might be hard. But you know, a few desks and whatever. Like I started to feel invincible. And because my blood sugar's were deeply unmanaged know, my agency was above 15, for almost a decade, I felt nothing. So I started to feel this superior sense of, you know, I can't die. And at this point, I don't care. So that, you know, kind of spurned many poor choices within this timeframe that I'm tired. I

Scott Benner 18:50
understand. So are you saying that after a while of having an elevated blood sugar like that, that not only does everything sort of become physically disconnected, like they say, you can't feel your highs anymore, all that stuff, but you're listening to a doctor who tells you if you don't take really good care of this bad stuffs gonna happen, you know, I got up again today and nothing bad happened because it feels like nothing.

Asha Brown 19:11
Right? Exactly. Like and, you know, again, I also didn't feel pain, which Boy, oh, boy, I wish I had, because now I certainly do. You know, I mean, the complications I live with now, because of that part of my life. I just, you know, I, I, it's, I sober up to it, which I choose to use that word, I sober up to those consequences every day just because of, you know, what my body now has to deal with and what it cannot do anymore, just because of that very long time of uncontrolled blood sugars.

Scott Benner 19:45
How did you have a good attitude about that? Like, how do you not wallow in the look what I did instead of Let's Move forward?

Asha Brown 19:53
I, I wish I had a better answer than the one I'm going to give you because it's not going to help anybody. Okay. It's because I have the a guard genetics. It's from will agar my father, I don't know what's wrong with us. We're deeply plucky, we're deeply plucky, we're, it's half glassful, even if there's barely any water in that glass, I don't. And we have very hardy genetics, like he's been through a lot. My god, he's lived now with type one, much more than 50 years. He was diagnosed in 1970. He's, he's had a quintuple bypass surgery. He recently had two heart surgeries in September. You know, just if it happens. No, but he's, he's still working, thriving. He's, he lives this beautiful life of art. And he's a teacher and a father, a musician. He just, he wants to choose joy versus not. And that is, it's been ingrained in me. I was taught it, you know, before I even understood words.

Scott Benner 20:59
It's very, very interesting that you're talking about this right now. Because two hours ago, I was standing in my kitchen, my wife and I were talking about an acquaintance who seemed to be falling down rabbit holes. And I said, I wonder what the difference is between someone who sees something and says, Oh, this is horrible, and burrows down on the horrible. And someone who says, Oh, this isn't great. But here's perspective. Like we were talking specifically about being kind of locked in your house right now. And I said, um, I said, I try to step back and think, well, I am quarantined here, but my life is still better than most people's. And then I just reset my idea of what great is and keep moving. I don't know. And I don't understand why other people can't do that. I get that they can't. And I'm not saying I don't understand, like, Hey, you should just do it. Right. Like I frankly, can't, I can't comprehend it. And I know, it's just the difference in whatever you said. Right. Like the unknown part of who people are.

Asha Brown 22:01
I think that's like the I think it's the evasive component to why some people have treatment resistant depression, you know, I think it's the that like, I think, is the phrase jenis acquah. We don't know, scientists are still trying to figure it out. Everybody's Ted talking about it. We're never going to know, because it's the magic of life. It just is, you know,

Scott Benner 22:23
it doesn't for others. And that's that. Yeah, I saw I used this as an example. When I was talking my wife, I said, when I was very young in elementary school, I remember kids talking about, you know, all the things kids talk about. And the one thing that came up was, if you step on a crack in the sidewalk, you'll break your mother's back, right? Like, it's like this thing. So I remember one day walking to school on this long sidewalk. And I noticed, oh my gosh, I'm purposely not stepping on the cracks in the sidewalk. And my mind immediately said, That's crazy. Just step on the cracks in the sidewalk. So I see, every crack I could on the way to school. got home, mom was fine. That was the end of it. Yeah. That's what you learned your lesson. How does someone have that very first, like, seed of a thought around something obsessive like that, and then not be able to, like leave it go or walk away from it. It's terrible.

Asha Brown 23:19
You know, it's terrible. And that's a great, you know, that's, that's a question that I wish I had the answer to. And yet, it's kind of what gives me drive every day with the work I do. Now, because I've been there, I had my own inability to step on the cracks, so to speak, right? With my behaviors and the coping mechanisms I use to avoid my feelings and avoid growing up and being an adult. And I'm very, I'm making very light you know, of what I struggled with. And the people that I work with in my coaching and just people that reach out to weird diabetes. Everyone is at a place where they recognize I don't want to do this anymore, but but it's gotten so cyclical and so difficult, and and they can see it but they don't know how to pull themselves out. And it is, it is a different process for every single person.

Scott Benner 24:14
I think it's very common through many threads of being human to like seeing that you're trapped, knowing it's not what you want and not knowing the steps and by the way, I don't see that as being much different than being diagnosed with Type One Diabetes being told test your blood sugar counts your carbs, getting getting mired down in this to too vague plan, then starting to see the bigger impact pop, you know, packs and think I don't know how to do that only have these couple of tools. It's like somebody hands you like a hammer and a screwdriver. And it's like, okay, go make a space shuttle.

Asha Brown 24:48
Right, right. I know. Oh, that's a great metaphor. I don't think I can write that down. Oh my gosh.

Scott Benner 24:56
It really does feel like that's what diabetes is like, for most people who get That direction, and then it takes certain people to break free of it. And certain people can't. And then hopefully those that could This is how I see it at least those that could. Should I used to talk about like being on a dark path. Like I always tell people like I'm not better at diabetes than you are. I'm just farther ahead in the idea of in you are. So what's wrong with me shining a light back at you and going, Hey, I'm up here. You know, there's a hole there stick there. There's a lion, if you go this way, that way, this way, that way, you can come home be with me, you don't have to take the trip I took,

Asha Brown 25:34
you know, right, right. Another way to think about it. And what I'm hearing from you is, especially for newly diagnosed, you think there is just this one path. And apparently, if it's not working, then you're the failure, right? But what people don't know is there's so many paths to the same great outcome. And you can even make your own like, you can literally just carve your own way you can use a CGM, but not a pump. And, you know, this is I mean, it's like, there's so many different options. But it's almost like if someone isn't told you can do that you can choose this or not. They don't even think that's a possibility.

Scott Benner 26:11
I have to tell you that there are days where I think my whole job is just on the pad on the ass guy. I'm the guy going you can do it. Get out there. Right? Like, it'll be fine. Try another unit. See what happens. You know, like I love. I love that moment where somebody says, I don't understand my blood sugar's been 250 for three weeks, and I can't do anything about it. I'm like, now that isn't right. The statement, the statement that I can't do anything about it isn't right. Like you can give yourself your blood sugar will be lower. Right. Right. Right. You know, and you're afraid for probably very good reasons. Here are the steps I would take to get it to.

Asha Brown 26:46
Yeah, no, I can't say that. Yeah. Lower say, No. All I can do is redirect, redirect, encourage.

Scott Benner 26:53
Yeah. And I'm and listen, here's the great thing about the podcast, I'm obviously not a doctor, either, right? All I do is I kind of come on here. And I talk about how I do things for my daughter, how I see my daughter doing things people can take from it, what they will leave behind what they don't want. But we really do get caught in that. That sort of like gray area of there are people who know and won't say,

Asha Brown 27:17
Yeah, what is up with that? I kind of get it. But I here's the other mean. So along, as long as I'm continuing to be mindful about what I can say and not say and what you know, will lead to supportive and non illegal like, or not, like no legal battles in my future. What we do is also so important, because it is that much needed, like middle space. Right? You there needs to be people that talk about their personal experience, or their you know, what's working for their family. And isn't. Because if there was just endocrinologist, and CB appointments, then our whole community, you know, back to the community thing, we would be so lost. You know, it's my need these people talking about what works for them.

Scott Benner 28:16
My daughter's endocrinology appointments got us to a low eight, a one se and a lot of stress and anxiety. And I'm sure my little baby not feeling very. And so then I'm like, All right, let me try to figure this out for myself. I didn't realize until years later after writing the blog for a while. So I always have this sort of I have a I usually I'm sure this is politically incorrect. But I have like a little fat kids mentality. I don't think I'm good at anything specifically. You know, I always imagine if anyone can do something, if I can do something, it must mean everyone can do it. Like I don't have a ton.

Asha Brown 28:53
I actually totally understand that. Yeah, I

Scott Benner 28:55
get it. So at one point, I hear people kind of ranting and raving like you can't like they used to say like, you can't give people medical advice. They weren't talking to me. They're saying it out loud, right? You can't write advice. I'm like, but nobody's giving them the advice. So and then. And then the argument would be well, you Well, it's not safe. And I'm like, Alright, well, can't there be a way to tell this story safely? So that right so that you can't hurt yourself? Like, you know, by under understanding slowly, that's where the podcast came in, because writing it down was nice. But saying it works. So much better.

Asha Brown 29:31
Words there, you know, the spoken word as well. I mean, I'm an actor, so I could go on, but it's, you know, what you offer to people is so much more than reading it on a piece of in a book or a blog because it shows you are real. You're a real person going through this and they can hear a motion and variability in your voice and know that it's true.

Scott Benner 29:53
It's very important to be able to hear those so you can't misinterpret an idea to be spoken assist. is so much more important. So anyway, now at this point, I mean, by the time your episode comes out, the podcast will have 3 million downloads. And it just had 2 million not long ago. Oh my gosh, that's just nuts. And then the, the, the, the feedback that continues to come back is, is similar. And it grows in mass, which just I think proves to me it's working for people because totally woke so it's, it's very thrilling and and

Asha Brown 30:30
what actually makes sense that with with the life that we all must consider living moving forward, how's that for a politically correct way to say, we, this, you may find even more listeners tuning in, you know, people like reaching for, you know, options for entertainment that is inside their home, you know, that's engaging, they will explore and find, you know, this podcast that perhaps that they wouldn't

Scott Benner 30:59
want, I'm think you're gonna see too with more sedentary lifestyles, which are happening at the moment, people's insulin needs go up, and they don't see the correlation between being sent and their insulin needs. But anyway, so it's very uncommon for me, because you have, like you said, you do we are diabetes is a coaching site. Is that right?

Asha Brown 31:19
Well, it's no, I mean, that's like the pretty much the last part of it we are diabetes is actually a 501, c three nonprofit. And we are primarily supported to spreading awareness, education and support to people living with Type One Diabetes and disordered eating. And that kind of also includes their families or loved ones, as well as clinics and the providers that are working with these with these individuals. Okay,

Scott Benner 31:43
so if I had Is it me, is it mainly around disordered eating that you

Asha Brown 31:47
right now it is primarily is the primary focus. And what I always like to say is, once I see a large change, which I do believe is possible, not with this president, but perhaps the future one, as well as many other things in the medical world that will shift? Once I see that change? Then I have, I've got decades and decades of ideas of what wad can then move into. But right now we are, this is our primary focus.

Scott Benner 32:13
Am I mean, am I anywhere near your thinking? When I say that, I tell my daughter, and anybody who's willing to listen to the show, that I think limiting food because of diabetes is a gateway to an eating disorder?

Asha Brown 32:28
Yes, you are absolutely correct. And if you want to make banners, and you know, just like little Instagram posters with that message, I am fully behind you because you are correct.

Scott Benner 32:40
So I don't personally care how people eat. I just want them to be able to use insulin in the scenario they find themselves in. That's my goal for that I want you to be able to look at whatever it is you look at in the refrigerator. And say, I know how to Bolus for that. And I think that some people take that as meaning like I want everybody eat like very sugary, high carb things. I don't feel like that. I think if you want cake, you should have cake. I think I think that if you want to eat like today, in a couple of hours, I have an episode going up with an with a doctor who is firmly behind a carnivore diet. And I and I did not put that up because I was like, Oh, I want everybody to eat carnivore. I don't want everybody to understand, this is a different way some people eat. And yeah, if you want to do this, too, here's what it is. And you know what I mean? And then go figure out how to use insulin for it. I don't, I'm not into telling people what to do.

Asha Brown 33:36
No, I think along with that thought, for me, especially because of you know, the past few years with my health and understanding hormones and how deeply important and integral they are to functionality. Insulin is a hormone. So when you have to provide it synthetically, it does take more work and education, and a deep sense of understanding of how your body works with a bunch of variable factors, you know, so their food is, is like, Oh, this is a terrible metaphor, but it kind of goes food is the icing on the cake of the issue. It's really not the issue. It's understanding how insulin works with your body, your set of hormones and all the factors that change.

Scott Benner 34:22
And and it's one thing that gets lost so often and all this is is the idea that 10 carbs of one thing is not commensurate to tank carbs and another thing and it's just not at all and I'm at different times of day, it's a different ballgame. Yeah, I would tell you that I'm sure that if my daughter decided to eat, you know, a keto diet or an all meat diet or something like that, I'd have a easier time and she'd have an easier time managing her insulin. But you know, for context, Arden has what I would think is a fairly classic American diet or a one sees between five, two and six to four, six and a half years. So it's doable or variabilities good. Oh At that age, that's so good for her moving forward, it's listening. My point ends up being that I kept thinking back a long time ago, there's got to be a distilled way to think about the bigger tools, where then people can take them and apply them to their lives so they can take the hammer and the screwdriver that they were given and instead of being facia, but instead of beating in a nail with a hammer, they go, Well, if I flip this thing upside down and use the handle like this, you know, they can take the tools and do what they want with them. Right. That's it. I honestly think that managing insulin for most people, and there are a number of people who have extenuating medical circumstances, and I'm not putting them into the same boat. Yeah, but for most people, it's about having your basil, right, understanding the timing of meal insulin, understanding the impact of different carbs. And you know, from there more and more things, but you could start with those three things and have a successful life,

Asha Brown 35:59
I think. And then I think to add on to that, at least with my, you know, that was my community that I serve is being honest with yourself.

Scott Benner 36:13
What are ways people aren't honest with themselves,

Asha Brown 36:16
you know, that. So that goes into deep, many layers. So, honesty, about, you know, for people who have, you know, gravitate towards binge eating disorder, which, you know, I don't even, I want to avoid saying anything that is going to come back at me negatively. It's, it can be a common thing for people living with type one, to struggle with binge eating disorder, sometimes, right, and I'm not a doctor, there you go. But so being honest with how much food you're eating, being honest with your relationship with food, being honest about you know, how often, you know, you are reaching for food, instead of sharing your feelings. And you know, so it goes into a lot of different layers of honesty. And, you know, you're, you're even playing around with your ability to be honest with yourself.

Scott Benner 37:09
So there are people who are from a third party perspective, quite clearly making decisions that are impacting them. And then when you ask them what's going on, they're like, I don't know, I eat fine, right? Yeah, like that thing.

Asha Brown 37:24
Right? Yep. Yep. And, I mean, so and there's layers of that too, because I for years, was, so in denial that what I was doing, and the choices I were making was actually, you know, under the umbrella of an eating disorder, you know, I would never have used that word ever. And, and yet, I was so secretive and making don't and creating so many lies to protect my behaviors, and my choices and decisions. And my life had become very small in regards to food and what I could tolerate or trust it, you know, it was this big, big ball of, you know, those balls of rubber bands that people have in the office, you know, oh, it was a huge rubber ball of live bands, you know, big, big band of lies. So,

Scott Benner 38:15
yeah, your question cuz I'm looking at you, and I, oh, I've seen you over time. You're, I mean, listen, unless you change drastically below your navel. You're a trim lean person. Are you telling me that you were obese at some point?

Asha Brown 38:31
I was. I don't know, if I was obese. I certainly was heavier at different times in my life. Okay. I was I, my natural body size is what you see. And, you know, I've always been petite. I guess that's the word you use. what's ironic is that when my eating disorder began, you know, I did initially lose weight and I will not talk about any more specifics as to how that happened. But it happened. And what is also interesting is as I layered on more eating disorder, paid behaviors, and as I omitted more insulin, which meant I was constantly hungry and thirsty and craving carbs all the time, my body swole up. So I did gain a great deal of edema and just wait, you know, from years of bingeing and many other disordered behaviors,

Scott Benner 39:31
okay. I always struggle with like, I have people on who have who've suffered like with diabelli Mia, I've had just Billy Billy mix on who there was one girl on recently, she was terrific because she had it's weird how I think of like good stories. Fantastic. Way before she had diabetes, but it just made her story different, you know? And, and I, I always like I always get right up to the line, I want people to understand how insulin is reverse manipulated to keep weight down without without giving someone a step by step tutorial about how to have an eating disorder.

Asha Brown 40:16
Right. And it's so difficult because I see very well meaning people offering advice which there is a line crossed too many times about this. But, you know, Insulin is a hormone. If your hormones are imbalanced, things don't work out. I mean, that's the essence. So if you're getting too much insulin at certain times, and you're being forced to eat too much, that's not going to end well, long term, and you're not going to feel good. If you're not getting enough insulin, you know, things get imbalanced, that's not going to end well. You're not going to feel or look good. You know, it's like,

Scott Benner 40:52
I went up when I'm trying to explain to people when they're what I really do think everything starts at Basal. So when people when people have these little like graphs that go along, then they dip down, they come back up, my first question is, it's funny to watch people jump to conclusions, because I have a very robust Facebook page around the the podcasters. Like 7000 people in it right now. Like 6500 of them are active on a daily basis. Wow, nicest place I've ever seen on Facebook, people are not talking to each other at all. But it's interesting, I want to go live there. It is lovely, actually. But when you see stability, that's a small drop and comes back up again. still barely small drop comes back up again. Some people say, Oh, your basil is too high, it's dropping you down. But I always think to ask first, Hey, are you is that? are you feeding that low to stop it? Or are you bolusing? Right to like, like, are these spikes that that need insulin or these drops that need food? And then I very frequently use the phrase feeding insulin, because I find it intersects with people like that understanding that they're using too much insulin when you're using too much insulin. You have to feed it. Yep. health wise tonight. Yeah, bad for you. Right. But But management wise and figuring it out. If you find yourself feeding your insulin, you probably have a little too much somewhere. Right?

Asha Brown 42:16
I know. It's interesting, because I switched over to the Omni pod, actually, for the first pump of my life this year, you know, with quarantine and everything. I was like I finally I should probably finally try it right. And it was actually a wonderful experience because I was able to utilize integrate the integrated diabetes services. Daniel Hargan rater helped me, you know, yay for community, right. But it really did. Right to what you're saying about the basil being kind of a core. important factor. The major factor is I totally agree. And it's been fascinating to, to work on my specific basil needs, just because I also take steroids multiple times a day to stay alive with my Addison's disease. So it's been very interesting. Yeah,

Scott Benner 43:02
no kidding. I think I'm sniffing out as I pay attention, I speak to more and more people that some older diabetics, people who have had diabetes for a longer time going back to older insulins, who are on MDI, sometimes use more basil than they need, in the same way as they used to shoot their regular and right and then eat at a certain time. It's almost like I'll put the easel in and as it draws me down, I'll have a meal. And it's a timing thing works really well for them. If they have that regulated life, wants a choice, right. But I think at some point, it's interesting to watch people leave a heavy basil, the MDI program, and go to arm and go to a pump, because then they're like, I don't understand my blood sugar's 200. All the time. It's like, Hey, you don't realize you had way too much basil going before? Right? And so you weren't, you weren't bolusing or injecting as much at meals as you probably needed to. Because you had such a heavy layer of basil. And I'm fascinated by how insulin works and, and how

Asha Brown 44:07
it is. It is fascinating. And I think it's a good word to use, because I had to really go through this process of not believing it was the devil and that it was going to make me fat. But then I also had to totally embrace re educating myself and being curious about it instead of afraid of it. And I think there's this big fear thing. And you know, it's not helping, there's a lot of journalists out there and there's really bombastic titled articles about insulin resistance, and, you know, and, and so it just creates this fear. But if you're curious, and you're willing to just see what works. Life can be so much better. Yeah,

Scott Benner 44:48
no, I mean, the whole kind of rallying cry around the podcast is to be bold with insulin. Yeah, just yeah, just use it the way you need it. What and I I'm, I'm fasting It is endlessly and I am some point going to get an adult on here who can who has diabetes who can talk about it about that idea that there's a certain amount of insulin that if I use over that I'm failing somehow.

Asha Brown 45:12
Oh, well, my goodness, well, maybe you should just have me come back on. And we'll talk specifically about that, Scott, because that's one of the conversations I have, almost daily with a client. I mean, that's a, that's a big, that's a big fear thing in regards to people who have disordered eating and thinking about diabetes.

Scott Benner 45:28
It's interesting how that those layers kind of pile on top of each other the idea that like, well, I, it's the insulins fault. I'm like, Well, no, it's carbs. And it's the carbs really, you're eating out so many carbs, you need this much insulin, right? So your problems, not the insulin, your problem is your intake. And if it's a problem, by the way, it's not a problem. You know, like when people say they get, you know, I'm so scared of insulin, because it's gonna make me fat. I think that it's such a simple thing that happens, that then gets blown up in people's minds and just spoken about incorrectly, like, you get diagnosed, oftentimes, you lose weight, and you start having insulin, your body starts processing food correctly. And then while the weight comes back on, now, if you're a person who's eating more calories, or more carbs in a day than your body needs, you are going to see weight gain from that correct. But that's not the insulin, just not the same way.

Asha Brown 46:24
It's Ultimately though, that that specific situation that you described is, isn't is very commonly a time when disordered eating and thinking patterns can occur for someone, just because they do see that big switch, you know, they're saying I didn't have enough insulin, but now they're putting insulin in me, they are right all this like, now insulin is, you know, insulin is to blame and insulin to the pencil that the

Scott Benner 46:51
guy put in his pocket before he robbed the bank. You know, what's wrong here? It's this. It's, um, it's a shame, and I but I understand how people come to the conclusion. Like, it's not crazy to say, okay, but Okay, so she's gotta go, I only have her for a short amount

Asha Brown 47:09
now. And I feel like you're right, this went so fast. We didn't even I feel like we didn't do anything. That's fine. But we just want much we did so much. But nothing. There's so much more to talk about.

Scott Benner 47:20
That's what the podcast is. It's everything all at the same time. But right. But I want to let people know it's we are diabetes.org. Right? That's correct. So if you're, if you're struggling with any sort of disordered eating, I go there. And what do I do? Do I reach out? How do I handle it?

Asha Brown 47:35
You follow the Did you know that we we've tried to make the website fairly clear. There's, you know, an about a section, there's a contact us section, the homepage states what we do. There's, there's lots of options for you to click on. And they will all reach me and my team? Well, yeah,

Scott Benner 47:57
I so seriously, I'm always as the podcast gets more and more popular, more people reach out and want to be on. And I feel badly about sometimes I get notes from people. And I'm like, this seems so good. But I don't know you. Like I can't I can't vouch for you. But you I felt like I could vouch for and I have to tell you that your connection to integrate it because Jenny Smith is a frequent guest on the show. Yeah, just having those connections and seeing what you're doing. I just thought it was really important to let people know about this as an option for them.

Asha Brown 48:28
So thank you. Yeah, thank you. Well, your your words, definitely have been the highlight of my week. It's really nice to hear well, it's

Scott Benner 48:35
only Wednesday, but I'm taking the compliment. Thank you so very much. I really appreciate you. Have a great day. You too. Bye, bye. first like to thank you for coming on the show a huge thank you, in fact, and remind you to check out we are diabetes.org. I also want to remind you, I also want to remind you to go to the T one D exchange at T one d exchange.org. forward slash juice box. Click on join our registry, finish the survey support Type One Diabetes Research and support the podcast. We'll be doing all of that in just a few minutes of time. And of course, touched by type one.org. They're available on Instagram, and Facebook. And right there on their link touched by type one.org. Check them out.

Thank you very much for listening to the Juicebox Podcast. Please remember to share the show with someone you think might enjoy it. And of course, subscribe in your podcast app. If you're listening in the podcast that please hit follow or subscribe. And if you're listening online, check out the apps they're free. There's tons of links to a bunch of apps that will work for you. At Juicebox Podcast calm, but in the end you can listen anywhere you get your audio, Subscribe, Subscribe, subscribe. It really, really, really, really, really helps the show. Thanks so much. I'll see you soon.


Please support the sponsors

The Juicebox Podcast is a free show, but if you'd like to support the podcast directly, you can make a gift here. Recent donations were used to pay for podcast hosting fees. Thank you to all who have sent 5, 10 and 20 dollars!

Donate