Scott Benner 11/13/20 Scott Benner 11/13/20

#406 Patrolling with Type 1 Diabetes

Sean is a Police Officer living with type 1 diabetes

Sean is a 26-year-old police officer who employs the tips and tricks discussed on the podcast to keep his glucose levels stable so that he is able to more readily respond when his job throws something unexpected at him while he works rolling daytime and overnight shifts, as well as potentially adrenaline-spiking SWAT-team roles. He wants to show other Type 1 diabetics that it is more than possible to join the force if they are interested.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello everyone and welcome to Episode 406 of the Juicebox Podcast. Today's show is sponsored by Dexcom, makers to the G six continuous glucose monitor the Omni pod tubeless insulin pump, and touched by type one touched by type ones 20th annual dancing for diabetes show is virtual this year. And you can watch it at touched by type one.org. It'll be available on November 14. That's this Saturday, November 14 2020. At 7pm eastern time, I just spoke with Elizabeth the other day, and they filmed the entire event in a huge auditorium said it was really exciting. And definitely worth your time. You know what else is worth your time the Omni pod tubeless insulin pump and you can get a free no obligation demo of that pod sent directly to your home absolutely for the free by going to my Omni pod.com Ford slash juice box and of course@dexcom.com Ford slash juice box you can find out a lot about the Dexcom g six, like how to get it what it is. And oh by the way, if you get your health care through the VA Dexcom is now covered.

Shawn lives with Type One Diabetes. He's a husband and a police officer. And today we're gonna talk about a little of all of that here on the Juicebox Podcast. Key Imagine if I did it all like that. I'd be like, oh, welcome to the Juicebox Podcast Today Show. Anyway, Sean's a cop. I grew up around a lot of police officers. And so I have a little bit of background about what it's like to be a police officer tiny little bit, a little bit of background. And generally, if you understand I'm saying to Shawn, and I got along very well. He told me how the podcast helped him what it's like to do his job with Type One Diabetes. And he wanted to come on to encourage young people who'd like to be in law enforcement, and who are living with Type One Diabetes, to know that they can. Please remember while you're listening that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, please always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. Searching for Spanish to blooms on the bottom of the oceans are becoming bold with insulin. Oh, I've piqued your interest, haven't I? Let's get to song.

Sean Hunter 2:40
I'm Sean Hunter. I'm 26 years old, from Camden County, New Jersey. I'm a type one diabetic, then diabetic for 17 years. And I'm a police officer also in Camden County, New Jersey. And that's why I was interested in coming on and talking to you, Scott.

Scott Benner 2:58
That's amazing, because I think you're the first police officer that's reached out and said, You know, I I'm happy for you to tell people on police. I think I've interviewed other police officers, but they haven't brought up what they are. Which is interesting sometimes, but I was I was really pleased with the, with your with your note, interestingly, I grew up around, you're gonna be able to tell in a second because I'm gonna say cops instead of police officers because I don't know how often I can say police officers, but I grew up around cops, and right. Just one of my best friends in the whole world with time. And then sort of by proxy, you get drawn into their life a little bit. So you know, I've been at picnics with 40 police officers are going on motorcycle rides with 50 guys that are all cops, you know, in the middle of the night, which by the way, if you've never ridden a motorcycle at midnight with 50 cops gear you're missing.

Sean Hunter 3:50
It sounds like fun.

Scott Benner 3:53
there's a there's a real feeling that we can't get a ticket if you know what I mean. Yeah. Anyway,

Sean Hunter 4:00
yeah, I was sorry, Clay off. I was I was just excited to come on and try and give some, you know, point of view from the law enforcement side, you know, hope play, there's people out there that are type one diabetics that are cops and they're, you know, can listen to this. Or, you know, maybe there's kids out there that are that want to be copson they're kinda skeptical because of the diabetes. I'm trying to, you know, open it kinda

Scott Benner 4:27
possible, right? Yeah. Well, you know, there's a real irony in this that last night, I edited a episode that's going to go up today, with a young woman in Massachusetts, I think she's 26 honestly, when I recorded whether she'd only had diabetes for about a nine months when I recorded with her and she wants to be a police officer. And it's just it's very strange as I didn't you know, I didn't schedule that to happen like that, obviously, but it was it was really interesting. So let's talk a little bit first about being diagnosed when you're nine. So that's old enough to have a memory of it. I imagine. And probably in one of those sweet spots for boys where I don't imagine you were thrilled to find out.

Sean Hunter 5:07
Yeah, so obviously I was not years old. I was it was during the summer, I don't really remember the date. But all I remembers that one of the most distinct memories, I was at a pool party, and, you know, I really couldn't quench my thirst, which is one of those, you know, signs. And instead of drinking water, you know, I'm a little kid, I wanted to drink soda, which obviously was then splitting my blood sugar up higher, which I had no idea about. But then my parents, you know, throughout the night, that the next couple of nights, they were keep an eye on me, they thought I was dehydrated. My dad's an EMT. So he said, you know, pay to my mom on pay, take him to the hospital. Maybe he's just dehydrated, they'll give them some fluids and send them home. When we went to the hospital, I went in told the intake person my symptoms, they brought me immediately back because they know the symptoms of diabetes. And I was kind of in that age group. Yeah. And they tested my sugar and I was 898. Wow,

Scott Benner 6:09
you're well on your way to something. Had you? Do you remember how you felt poorly? For how long prior to that? Did it come on quickly? Or what's what is hindsight then tell you how it was happening? Do you remember,

Sean Hunter 6:20
it was probably like three to five days that I was, you know, feeling really bad throwing up a lot. Obviously, using the bathroom a lot, not keeping any food down. And I my mom said my my eyes were sinking back, you know, just look like I was dying, which I

Scott Benner 6:36
was. Yeah. So you were in decay?

Sean Hunter 6:39
Yeah, pretty much. And I you know, I don't really have I don't really have any memory of that. The only memory I have of being in the hospital is that my mom was so nervous that she went to get her insurance card out of her purse, and she dropped like $300 worth of change on the floor that she had in her purse. was like the last you know, like, yeah,

Scott Benner 6:59
sure, on Vita mom's always have so much change in their purse, like I dated a girl for a long time. She never had a quarter and then suddenly I had a couple babies with her and she's got to fistfuls a change in her purse. I don't understand. Yeah,

Sean Hunter 7:12
I don't know why. But it was it was just a little bit of laughter to kind of break the the seriousness of the situation. Yeah.

Scott Benner 7:17
Now that's, that's amazing. Hey, listen, your voice is cutting in and out on me a little bit. Okay, so when you're pausing, it's you probably have noise cancelling on your headphones. And so every time you stop talking, it wants to take away background noise. So let's try to figure out a way around that. First of all, is that are those The only headphones you have? Do you have like gamer headphones or something like that by any chance?

Sean Hunter 7:40
I don't think so. I can check.

Scott Benner 7:42
Even Apple just on the wire with the microphone in the cord.

Unknown Speaker 7:47
Let me go Look,

Scott Benner 7:48
I don't believe so. Okay, and if not, I have another idea. So your mom has her little moment of levity that kind of breaks the ice a little bit. You go back were you in the hospital long? How long do they keep you

Sean Hunter 8:01
so that night, they gave me fluids brought my sugar back down, I assume you know, insulin and all that stuff. And then they transferred me to chop in Philly. And I stayed there for a week.

Unknown Speaker 8:16
Week.

Sean Hunter 8:18
Yeah, so I was there for a week for education, I guess. And but I specifically remember being there for a week and playing Xbox and doing all this cool stuff at CHOP. You know, it was it was a cool hospital for kids. So

Scott Benner 8:31
they do a nice job there of, of taking care of kids. You know, you and I live pretty near each other right?

Sean Hunter 8:37
Yeah, that's that was another reason I wanted to talk to you is kind of cool. having another new jersey in?

Scott Benner 8:41
Yeah. Yeah, so that's, that's that's Arden's hospital. That's not where she was. Not where she was diagnosed, but it's where her endocrinologist is out of Do you use a an adult endo now in New Jersey?

Sean Hunter 8:54
Yeah. So I use um, Cooper. endocrinology, I just commented on your post in the group actually, the other day use a Dr. Becker from Cooper.

Scott Benner 9:05
It's funny, you were not the only one that brought up that practice. So that's usually a good sign when people are like, Oh, this place this place, you know? Yeah, that's excellent. It's hard to find to a good adult endocrinology. And you would have some feeling about that, too, because you left chop that does a really good job for kids. And did you be able to find Cooper right away? Or was there any struggle in between?

Sean Hunter 9:30
Yeah, so I actually stayed with chop until I think I was 20 or 21. I really didn't want to leave and and I was, you know, I was the really old guy going in and seeing all these little kids. So they kind of pushed me out. But I found Cooper really easily. They referred me there and it was a good transition.

Scott Benner 9:47
It's a funny image, by the way of you just you rolling through like Hey, guys, what's up?

Sean Hunter 9:52
Yeah, on the veteran walking through with these little kids that are diagnosed.

Scott Benner 9:57
So how old were you when you thought You want to be a police officer?

Sean Hunter 10:02
going throughout high school? I think so like in that 14 to 18 range. I grew up with public servants in my family. And, you know, I enjoyed seeing them go out and make a difference in the world. And that's the reason why I wanted to become a cop. So I think as of then, it really, you know, drew my attention, I wanted to go do it. And then I, you know, obviously went to college and studied criminal justice and, you know, started to pursue that career field.

Scott Benner 10:36
And there are two paths, there's two paths to it, am I correct that you can go to college and take a criminal justice track? Or you can just go right to the police academy to is, is that the other option? Or is that not like that anymore?

Sean Hunter 10:49
No, that's true there,

there are a lot of different options, you could actually even pay your own way through an academy, um, without having really any I mean, I think you need some sort of college credits. But you can pay your own way through and then kind of get hired out of the police academy with that, you know, police training, commission certification,

Scott Benner 11:09
so I grew up around a, like I said, a lot of police officers, none of them directly in my family, but good friends, you know, through my, my late teens, who are a little older than me, and I know, scads of great cops, people who want to be cops, for the right reason, do a great job at it. I've been at it for decades. And I've seen a couple who were sketchy along the way. But I have the greatest sketchy story that I'm going to share with you at some point, because it's hilarious. And, and I and I want to, I've never said this on the podcast before. But when I was 18, because of being around these people, and having no real direction in my life, I thought, I'd like to be a police officer, and my local town was hiring three, right. And so back, then they put out a test, and you took the test, and that test would whittle down. And then there was a, you know, interviews and it went down to this process, then they chose from that group of people and sent those people off to the police academy. So I'm barely 19 years old by the time the test comes up. And, Sean, it's weird when you hear me talk on the podcast, because I probably seem like an idiot. But I, I'm bright in strange ways that don't show in regular life, which is right, it was just, it's hard to put into words. But this test ended up basically just being an IQ test. It was a fancy IQ test. And I crushed it. And so when I first told, you know, a friend of mine, who back then was just an officer, you know, that I wanted to do this, the first thing he said was, you mean, you're 19 they're not going to give you a gun. He's like these, like, you're never going to get through this process. He's like, you're old enough, technically, you know, air quotes, but no one's gonna let you be a cop when you're 19. And I was like, I'm gonna take the test anyway. So I take the test and, and just days before the test, the lieutenant comes to my house and says, Hey, listen, we think this is great. But you know, you need to know you're too young, and we're not gonna, you're never gonna make it through. And I was like, okay, and it seems all very, like, you know, I was like, Alright, I understand this. But I did so well on the test that they couldn't weed me out. So the next thing I know, I have an interview. And it's me and want the top 20 people. And you know, you're young, I just figured I must have been the 20th person. And at the end of the interview with some of the lieutenants, and desert in certain designated officers. At the end, they told me how well they thought I did. And of course, that I wasn't going to make it to the next round, because, you know, I'm 19. And then a couple weeks later, the letters come out, and I make it to the next round. And now I'm in the interviews with a 10. By the time it was over, I was top six for that.

Unknown Speaker 13:58
Because I really wanted, you

Scott Benner 13:59
know, well, they they wanted me to be older is what they wanted, you know, but I hadn't done anything yet that made them think we can't just tell him No, like he's doing better in these interviews than people. And he did you know, and so when it got down to the top six, I actually by then I was like, is this gonna happen? Like, even I started, I'm only 19 they probably shouldn't give me a go. Look, I started having that thought. And, you know, it eventually went away gracefully. And people were very nice about it. And you know, the the end result was You're too young to be a police officer in our eyes and but you know, try again, and by the time and you know, like openings don't come that often it was a smaller price. And by the time they did I sort of in my mind moved on. But it was a very strange like nine month period where everyone in the town was like I began to give that kid a gun but it's exactly how it felt for a while. But But you went to college and you got a you know, a criminal justice degree. Did anything in college dissuade you? Or were you like straight on the whole way? Like, this is what I'm gonna do. Um,

Sean Hunter 15:06
so I think originally, before I went to college, I wanted to do something like physical therapy or physical therapy, personal trainer kind of background. I'm really into sports. And you know, I played baseball throughout college. But I really wanted to help people and you know, serve. And that was one of the things that I, I really wanted to do. So I don't think anything really dissuaded me after I went to college. If anything, it pushed me forward, you know, having really good professors who were retired police officers, lieutenants, chiefs and stuff like that, that, you know, really pushed me towards that goal.

Scott Benner 15:47
And you're not, you're not a cop in a, like, a nice little town like the one where I was trying to be a police officer, like, you're, you have a tough job, don't you?

Sean Hunter 15:57
We're in a smaller town, but we are, you know, definitely a pretty busy town with with a lot of different calls for service and, you know, some pretty serious crimes that happen. So it's, you know, it's, we definitely get our share of fun stuff that happens.

Scott Benner 16:11
Yeah, I have an acquaintance from years ago, who's an older gentleman, older than I. And he was, I did a task force in South Jersey serving drug warrants. And he said he could only do it for about a year, he says, most heartbreaking, horrible job he had ever had in his life. And about a year into it, he went back to his chief, and he's like, I can't do this anymore. Like, yeah, it needs to be someone else.

Sean Hunter 16:38
Yeah, I actually started my career in a pretty infamous city down in South Jersey. I worked there for almost three years. And then I switched departments. And I'm in a, like I said, a smaller town now, but still pretty busy.

Scott Benner 16:53
You know, you and I might have a conversation after this is over, because the stories he told me were not they're not appropriate for the show. They have nothing to do with diabetes, but they're horrifying. And, and they've shaped a lot about how I think about some of the jobs people have to do. So you know, so you're, you're into helping people with your father's health, your father knows he's still an EMT.

Sean Hunter 17:16
He, so he slowed down a little bit on the EMT side, he's a paid firefighter, he actually just got promoted to Deputy Chief, he actually works in the same town I work in as a police officer.

Scott Benner 17:25
Isn't that interesting? My dad did volunteer firefighting. When we were kids, he never became professional at it. But he was a dedicated guy who kind of broke the what some people might have is a, I don't know, a vision of what a volunteer fireman is a guy trying to get away from his family drinking beer at the back of a of a building, it has a couple of fire trucks in it, but he really cared about it and, and did really good work. And for a number of years. You know, especially before alarm systems became common, there were a lot more fires, like the realize or not, things don't burn down as much as they used to 20 years ago. But he was a firefighter during a time in our town and surrounding places where things really, really, they needed firefighters and there were some serious building fires. And I actually did it for three years, through my teenagers as well. And I only did it for three years, but I learned a lot about being calm. Okay, and not freaking out when most other people are freaking out. And it's it's an interesting thing until you've stood in a room that is completely on fire, like walls, ceiling, and you've got a hose in your hand and you know, the you went in there to save the building but you realize now you're then there to save yourself. You know, it's a it's a it's a different thing. And and I wonder about that with being a police officer, like how much of your day is spent? Like how hard is that? I guess is my question to go out into the world with a with the idea. I'm out there trying to help other people, but your first thought is always I can't help them. If I'm dead, like is that in your head constantly? What's it like to be on the street? It's my question.

Do you or someone that you love, use insulin? Give type one or type two diabetes? Are you finding that your blood sugar gets low, you become sweaty, disoriented, it gets very high you feel sick to your stomach? Would you like to stop that from happening which like to be able to address those issues with carbohydrates or insulin as necessary and needed without having to poke a hole in your finger a bazillion times a day. You can do that with the dexcom g six continuous glucose monitor. That's available@dexcom.com forward slash juice box. Find out when your blood sugar is on the move because Dexcom will show you not only what your blood sugar is, let's say 125 but it'll show you what direction it's moving in, up or down or is it steady and how quickly Is it moving in one of those directions? Are you moving one point a minute to three Dexcom can tell you I can tell you in real time, and it can show you right there on your iPhone or Android. And if you don't want that information on your phone, you can carry a dexcom receiver with you. Now you tell this receiver or your phone, this is the range I'm comfortable in. But please, when I fall below this number, go above this number. Tell me just like my daughter's just it. My daughter's dex calm is telling me that her blood sugar's over 120 by beeping like that, by 120, because that's where we set it. And you could set your own range and have a better fuller picture of what your blood sugar is doing. dexcom.com forward slash juice box. And by the way, this is new. If you're using the VA, to get your insurance Dexcom is now covered. Go to the link. When it asks you what kind of insurance you have. You just say, VA that easy dexcom.com forward slash juice box, the how you're going to get that insulin? Well, you could use an omni pod tubeless insulin pump like my daughter has been doing since she was four years old. Arden, by the way, is over 16 now, and she's been using an omni pod every day. During that time. It's an absolute friend in life with Type One Diabetes. And if you're using insulin for type two diabetes, same thing, my omnipod.com forward slash juice box, here's the greatest part, they're going to send you if you like a free, no obligation demo of the Omni pod, it'll come directly to your home where you can try it on and wear it for yourself, where you can see what tubeless means not being tethered to something not having to wear a pack with insulin in your belt or your bra or something like that. This thing's all in one tiny, it's compact, easy to wear, you can hide it, or wear it out loud and proud doesn't matter. And when you do need to do something with your insulin, the controller is completely separate from the pump. And it's easy to carry in your pocket or purse on the pod is definitely something you want to look at. If you're considering leaving injections, or you're looking to leave your tube insulin pump my Omni pod comm forward slash juice box, check it out. Last thing of course touched by type ones 20th annual dancing for diabetes show is this Saturday, November 14 2020. At 7pm touched by type one.org. Go check out all the kids and their amazing dance routines. It has to be virtual this year. But everybody has their fingers crossed for next year being back in person dancing for diabetes.org dexcom.com forward slash juicebox my Omni pod.com forward slash juice box the links in your show notes links at Juicebox podcast.com. Now it's time to find out more about living with Type One Diabetes. And being a police officer.

Sean Hunter 23:15
It's definitely in the back of your head. And you always have to think about that. When you're going, you know to calls for service or you're stopping cars or anything like that, you always have to think about their situations and because if you're not thinking about it, and something happens, you're not going to be able to react to it. But it can't let it you know, take over you know your mind and take over the situation you have to obviously we have a job to do. Whether that is to help someone or if we end up having to arrest someone or you know anything like that. Like I said, you can't really let those thoughts take over that situation. But it always has to be in that the back of your mind. I've been to a lot of training. And I've listened to a lot of people talk and they kind of talk to they're talking about it like like flipping your switch, you always have to have a little bit of violence on standby, you know. And that's, that's something that you have to train and you get used to as you gain experience on the job. You know, you can't expect the guy with six months on the job to come in and say, you know, be able to flip that switch. But, you know, maybe a guy with five or 10 years old job he's more acquainted with that violence that he has on standby. He can. If he has to use it, he can, you know,

Scott Benner 24:36
yeah, it's a special person that can kind of walk that line and I have always seen with the people I know who are police officers, that some of the hardest. One of the hardest things they have to do personally, I think is be able to separate I guess I don't know a better way to say it. But I what I noticed is that their entire day is spent with people who are breaking the law or trying to get over or something like that? And then how hard is it not to, in your personal life think that everybody's trying to get over and treat people like people when you're home, but be have enough, you know, I don't know, just, you know, understanding of what the world can be like, you often don't find a job where you're directed at crime constantly, or people who are in that mindset. And I know, you'll still run into citizens who need help, and they're obviously not thinking like that. But when you get there, right, when you get out of that car, like, Who's Who? And how do you figure that out? And you know, and how do you stop yourself from being suspicious of everybody? Do you find that yet? Are you have you not been in it long enough to have that like, feeling?

Sean Hunter 25:51
No. So I definitely, I definitely know where we're coming from its I definitely, you know, see people different, even when I'm not at work, we're just going out with a family stuff like that, you know, you definitely kind of look at people differently. And you kind of, because you have to, you know, especially if you're living in that, that yellow area, where you're trying to react to things, you definitely see people differently. But if you're going to a situation, and you have to find out what's going on that just takes good investigative skills, and, you know, that's all built over time. I would say that I'm definitely you know, getting better at when Sam great, you know, only having five years on the job. But you know, you gain those skills over time. And you get better at finding out who's the good person who's the bad person, just based off of their reactions and their demeanor,

Unknown Speaker 26:47
learn to read people?

Unknown Speaker 26:48
Right? Yeah.

Scott Benner 26:49
So we're gonna get into how this all affects your diabetes or doesn't or how you deal with it in a second. But have you had a moment yet where you thought, No, I don't need to be a cop anymore. Like has anything really frightening happened that makes you rethink it. I mean, one of my close friends always tells me about the first home intrusion he went into that was happening. And he got in the house and the intruder went into the basement. And you know, the homeowners like he went downstairs and my friend standing at the top of the staircase, and he pulls his gun out and starts going downstairs and realizes as he's going down that because of the makeup of the house, that his legs and his entire lower half of his body are going to be visible long before he can get his eyes into the space. And he said there was a split second there where he thought, why don't I just leave? And but he did. He went down and did what he was supposed to do. But he's like, there was that moment where he's like, do I really want to be a police officer? And now's the time? No, you know, have you had one of those yet? Or how's it gone for the first five years,

Sean Hunter 27:49
um, there's definitely been a lot of those, you know, those pucker moments, if you want to call them that, um, I just recently think within the last eight months or so, I was put on our regional county SWAT team. So there's definitely been a lot of those moments where if we are clear, and a house, or we're going into a situation where we're possibly going to go in and find someone you know, you, you kind of think about it like, and this is kind of crazy, like we're the guys that are going in. We're the first people who are going to get hurt if something happens. But I think we kind of wear that as a badge of pride, like, Hey, we're the guys that went in and found this person that were the first were the people that went in and got the job done. And I think it's, it's a little bit crazy sometimes, but I think that's something that you have to have as a police officer to kind of have that, that pride of saying, Hey, I'm, I'm the guy that got that job done. I'm the guy that went out and did that thing, you know?

Scott Benner 28:47
Yeah, no, I hear you. Um, so I have to tell you my funny story, and then I'm gonna get into how diabetes is this? So I grew up in this in a pretty small town. And I'm going to give not enough details especially because the internet back then, you know, you could find it if you tried hard enough, but we I grew up in this small town, you know, the police department have probably 10 or 15 guys, it's grown over the years. And there was this one officer who was just quiet. He went about his business. He wrote his tickets. He didn't really do much else. That was kind of the vibe about him like you don't I mean, like he wasn't gonna wasn't gonna do much and he was just gonna do what he was supposed to do. And, and he just was he was wallpaper he just there he was, and you saw him you never thought twice about him. He's a decent enough guy wasn't a bad guy. Nothing like that. And then one day, he gets arrested. Because, wait, hold on, I swear to you, you're gonna love this. He found out about sunken treasure in the ocean and decided that he was going to die for it. And this was going to be how he's going to live the rest of his life off of these The blooms, okay, but how is he going to get enough money for the dive? Obviously, he's going to start robbing drug houses in the area. So he did, and was fairly successful at it for a while. if my memory serves, until one day, he went into a place, you know, a place where a lot of people were doing drugs, and they were selling drugs out of the place that he knew about. He went in there as a police officer to rob the place, but she had been doing and someone using drugs in the place if I my memory serves the son of a local politician, recognize them. Wow. And that's how he got caught. No lie. This story goes that he went to prison did his time and then got out and disappeared. And people think he went and found that treasure and left because they never got the money back from the robberies. He just he shut up. He did his time he held on to his money. He got out and he and they think he went and got that money somehow off the ocean floor. So I always imagine this man somewhere on an island, just with a big smile on his face with that same sort of like lackadaisical, like, I'm just here. Like, I just think of him as just existing. I don't know if that's actually what happened to him. But in my mind, that's, that's how I like to think of him. But that's not right.

Sean Hunter 31:20
Yeah, I can't even I can't even wrap my head around that. doing that, that's crazy.

Scott Benner 31:26
It was as much about the fact that he was just the quietest guy who was probably at the time, near 50 years old, he probably been a cop 15 or 20 years. Like he just really, it was insane. And it's 100% true. And I know it's true, because I know enough of the details to Google it and I just found two news stories on it while I was talking to you. So I know. It's not just stories that people told. But that was that like, you know, you woke up one day and you're like, Hey, remember, Officer blah, blah? Yeah, you got arrested? How come? He was robbing drug houses to make money to go look for Spanish to blooms on the bottom of the ocean floor? And you're like, Get the hell out of here. Anyway, I hope you don't go that way, Sean.

Sean Hunter 32:06
No, I don't I don't plan on it.

Scott Benner 32:09
What's that I don't think he had planned on it his whole life. And one day he snapped, like, I guess it was just one too many free medium coffees from 711. He was like, I'm done with this. Anyway, what I really want to know about is, you know, we just described a job that is can be, you know, fulfilling, you're off helping citizens. It can go from that fulfillment to anxiety and adrenaline very quickly. You have to be ready at a moment's notice. How do you manage your type one diabetes through that, that's why you're here. I really want to hear how you do that.

Sean Hunter 32:44
Um, so I, I was actually using a Medtronic pump, but I just switched to an omni pod. Okay. And I use the.com g six. Um, so you actually pushed me towards the Omni pod with your ads. Oh, on yours worker show.

Scott Benner 33:03
Excellent. Hey, dex coming on the pod the ads work, keep buying them.

Sean Hunter 33:09
But yeah, so I use Omni pod in the Dexcom. And I kind of just use the principles that you talked about, while I'm at work, you know, pretty bolusing and bumping and nudging are the two big things that I try to use. You know, not trying to, you know, use or have mountains in my, my numbers, you know, what I mean? Just have them be small rolling hills, if I, if they end up getting too high or too low,

Scott Benner 33:41
you know, so is creating that stability, helping you when out of nowhere, you do a car stop, and something looks weird, and you feel that adrenaline kick in does your blood sugar jump up at that time does it try

Sean Hunter 33:54
who I haven't really ever had too much of an effect from adrenaline, just my, my sugar going too high. But it definitely having a more stable blood sugar and more stable numbers throughout the day definitely helps. If something does, you know, go bed and say I'm away from my my snacks or something like that. It definitely helps to have a more stable number. If I, if I'm away from things for a while, you know, see, I

Scott Benner 34:22
think that's interesting what you just said, so that when you and I believe this as well, when you create stability that runs over hours and days, then when something happens that some people see is like, Oh, this thing threw me way off. I think they don't realize the whole picture. Sometimes if their bezels too high or too low, if they're bolusing too much at meals because their bezels too low or whatever the things are. They have this imbalance of insulin running through their life. And then when something happens, it's easier for things to get upside down because so many other things are wrong. So now that you've created the stability when things come up, you're okay, what about? Excuse me? What about you ever have to, like suddenly jump on foot and take off? Do these it in your head? Like, like, I give it to me? Like, are you ever gonna go pull your gun and pull out a candy bar instead? Because you've got stuff on you like, how do you handle like, like, when you're away from the car, I guess? Are you out of that?

Sean Hunter 35:23
Yeah, so I actually always have something with me, I always have like a glucose jellen, I have like two or three in my pocket at work. But like I said, I always try to keep my blood sugar pretty stable. If I feel like I'm going low, I will correct it before it gets, you know, too low. Just in case something like that does happen. And being on, you know, different scenes in different situations. You know, I like I said, I always try and keep stuff on me. There have been situations where if I'm standing outside of the house on the perimeter, and I'm going loads, like, hey, let me you know, I put call the guy up to me and say, Hey, you know, watch this side, I'm gonna just, you know, shoot some glucose real quick. And then I'll, you know, right back in the flight, but like I said, I try to keep everything pretty stable. So I don't have to get into that situation. So I can go an hour or two inside of the house, or on a job and not have to worry about my sugar crashing or spiking.

Scott Benner 36:25
Yeah. So because that's sort of your reality. While you're at work, do you find that your management? I'm gonna say control, although I know some people don't like that idea. But do you find that your control is better while you're working? Because you're more present about it? Or do you carry that into your regular life? Because you do work shift work as well?

Sean Hunter 36:43
Yeah, so we switch each month. So I'm actually working on days, this month, and then next month, we'll switch to tonight work where we work a 12 hour shift. So we work 630 to 630. And, but I actually, like you said, I actually think I have better control while I'm at work. Because, like you said that, that awareness that things could go bad really quick, you know?

Scott Benner 37:12
Yeah. And so the reason I bring it up is because it's a, it's a simple idea that translates to everybody's life. And, you know, you can say it anyway, you know, I've said it a bunch of different ways over the years. But if you pay attention for small moments, you don't get into big problems. It's when you try to ignore diabetes for 346 hours at a time and just hope that it's going to be okay, that you wake up to find, oh, my blood sugar's 200 points higher than I thought, or I've been 50 all night long, or something like that. But when you just look once in a while, it takes a brief couple of moments to say, Oh, I'm good, or I need a little bump here or something and get right back in the game. I'd much rather spend 30 seconds, never getting way out of bounds then pretending for three or four hours that everything's okay. And so I when you're describing how you handle work, I thought I bet you He's, like, really within tolerances. At that time. Where do you set your, your goals that high and low on your CGM.

Sean Hunter 38:15
So before listening to you, I had them wherever Dexcom has been preset, I think it's 70 to like 220 or something like that. Okay. But since listening to you, I bumped it down to originally 70 to 140. And now on 70 to 130. Good for you.

Scott Benner 38:31
You're a one sees probably sub six. We like 5758

Sean Hunter 38:36
as one so I, I just started listening to your podcast in January, I think. And then my next appointment after that, I think was in March. And I was at like 6.1. And I'm excited to go and get my bloodwork done for my next appointment because I'm fairly certain I'm going to be under six.

Scott Benner 38:57
Congratulations. That's very, very well done. But were you prior to finding the show? Do you mind saying

Sean Hunter 39:05
I think I was low low sevens or high sixes I could probably pull it up. I probably like a six, seven to seven. You know,

Scott Benner 39:14
that's a that's a really great adjustment. Do you feel differently by any chance?

Sean Hunter 39:20
I definitely feel better. I'm especially so before even when I would go work out you know, go to the gym, do stuff like that. It was tough trying to keep my sugar in rain. Okay, but then being able to find a good basal rate. I can go out into the gym and work out for an hour and not have my sugar go out of range for that hour, hour and a half. You know, and that's that's something that is, is pretty freeing for me because I work out a lot and that's one of the things I enjoy doing.

Scott Benner 39:52
How did you handle it in college because I know at every level of baseball, it doesn't matter what division you're in the guys They lift a lot they do a lot of hard workouts practices are long. Were you constantly feeding your insulin when you were in college?

Sean Hunter 40:08
Yeah, so I can tell you that I was a terrible diabetic in college. It's one of the things I regret a lot about my life as a diabetic. Probably the last three years, or, you know, the first three years, my senior year, I was definitely more focused on it. But I wouldn't check a lot. I wasn't using a CGM throughout college. So, you know, I was checking my sugar, but I was using the Medtronic pump. But I wouldn't check my blood sugar a lot. I wouldn't really only do it, you know, before bed. And then after I woke up in the morning, you know, and then kind of just ride the feeling I had throughout the day, if I felt low, I would eat if I felt like I was too high, give myself insulin. And, again, like I said, that's that's one of the things I kind of regret about my life as a diabetic is kind of just living that. uncontrolled life for for a few years in my college years.

Scott Benner 41:07
How was it before college when your parents were more involved? Do you remember being similar?

Sean Hunter 41:14
Yeah, I mean, I was, I was pretty good. I wasn't, you know, anything crazy, like I am now you know, where I'm in pretty tight control. But I was more controlled, because obviously, they're looking over my shoulder. And they're making sure that I'm doing things correctly and making sure I'm testing for from meals and giving myself insulin prior to eating rather than after eating and you know, stuff like that.

Scott Benner 41:36
Yeah. Well, I have to say that it's impressive what you've done end on a personal level, I feel like, in an indirect way, I'm protecting South Jersey now. So I feel like I feel like I'm making it easier for you to protect them. And so I'm gonna take credit my own mind, I won't say it. Anybody else except for the 10s of thousands of people that are hearing me say it right now. But that's not the point. Really. I'm joking, mostly. But I'm happy that you're able to do your job better and live a better life just off of a couple of small ideas. Really? You know, right tools. Right job. Yeah, I mean, I don't want to oversimplify it. But it sort of is what it is.

Sean Hunter 42:17
Yeah, that's all it is, man. It's all it is, is just having the right tools and the right mindset to go out and make things work happy.

Scott Benner 42:24
How long have you been married? You said you're a married you seem as although I was married when I was 26? When you said I was too young, but go ahead.

Sean Hunter 42:34
So I've been married for going on three years or four years now. Yeah, four years. We got married in 2016. October 2016. So what's that? What's that? Make me 22? I'm about as good as you at now.

Scott Benner 42:50
Yeah, I don't know if you asked me how old I was. When I got married. Or when I had my children. I have no idea even though the years. I know, like I know when my son's born. But if you ask me how old I was, when he was born, I don't know. And that's even more ridiculous because he was born in 2000. So the math is really simple. And I can't come up with it off the top of my head. But that's neither here nor there. So did you guys know each other a long time?

Sean Hunter 43:16
Yeah, we actually met in college. She's from North North Jersey in Warren County. But we met in college. She was actually my ra my sophomore year of college.

Scott Benner 43:26
I see Sean, he started out trying to get a decent room and then went better. I say I love listen. Interesting. She was from North Jersey when she got to South Jersey. She probably thought she was in Pennsylvania right because people from North Jersey think that think that like Princeton is South Jersey?

Sean Hunter 43:44
Yes Yeah, she's definitely It was definitely a culture shock at first when she moved down here with me

Scott Benner 43:48
it's a very interesting thing so New Jersey sort of split into these three knits North Central and South people in South Jersey think the Trenton area where the capitalist for example they think of that is north but that central the people and the only the people around Trenton understand that there's a north in the south because the people up north by the city just think that by the time you get to Trenton that's the bottom of New Jersey. Right. It's It's interesting how we don't understand the state of

Sean Hunter 44:16
weird though, and there's a lot of different things going on around here.

Scott Benner 44:19
Yeah, well, once you get far enough south, it feels like you're in Philly. Honestly, it feels like you're in a suburb of Philadelphia. Like do you feel like you live in Philadelphia Moreover, or is that taboo to say down there?

Sean Hunter 44:32
Now we're more suburban like you said we're you know, little neighborhood nice little house so it's not really that really city like but we definitely I mean, we're like 20 minutes from Philly so

Scott Benner 44:45
right. Just Just tell everybody for a second not to get off track too far. But explain the joy when the Eagles won the Super Bowl. Wasn't that was great. It's just amazing.

Sean Hunter 44:54
Yeah, it was awesome.

Scott Benner 44:55
I never thought I was gonna say it. I thought for sure I would die before it happened. And and It was I just remember sitting in my house for the last 20 minutes of the game thinking like, I think they could win. It's such a strange thing to have no hope ever to grow up with no hope around sports

Sean Hunter 45:14
that in the Phillies in a way, I was more excited about that.

Scott Benner 45:18
I was so thrilled I my son was still kind of young. And if I remember correctly, there was some weather that pushed the game, the last World Series game a day or two. And we were down to like carving pumpkins for Halloween while the game was being played. And I remember Cole being in the kitchen, a little kid carving it, excuse me. A little kid carbon is pumpkin. And I just was like, come out here like you have to watch this. And and he's like, what? Like, it's baseball. I'm like, no, no. And I even remember even though he was that young, he was eight years old. I said the last time the Phillies won the World Series. A, my dad was alive and he's dead now. So I'm going to be dead the next time this happens to stand here. And then of course, the next year, they're back in the World Series. And he's like, I thought you told me this was never gonna happen again, you idiot. But, uh, that was a great baseball team there for for a number of years. So have you heard Sam on the show? Sam's a coach. Oh, yeah.

Sean Hunter 46:20
Yeah, I actually listened to both of his episodes. Okay, cool.

Scott Benner 46:23
Yeah, he's a, he's terrific. And I love that he's in Philadelphia. I was so happy when that felt so random to me when he left the A's and then suddenly was coaching. in Philly. I thought, Oh, this is terrific. You know? It's cool. Yeah. So okay, so you've got this job. The shift work I want to get into for a second, but I have to clear my throat. I apologize. I think it's just like a little Corona back there or something. I'm not sure exactly. But you shouldn't joke about that. shift work. Now, when my buddy was young, they had shifts that you would probably think was crazy. He'd work 5772 threes. The early cut, the early guy was six to two. And then there were three, two elevens, the early guy was two to 10 and then 11 to seven and then there was always an early guy so there was always this one guy that came in an hour before the shift started left an hour before the keep this overlap going. So there's always a car on the street while people are switching over that kind of feeling. But they would work them five on three off five on three off and they would they would I don't know how he did it. Like I there were times I thought it was gonna kill him. He said he'd come out of a midnight into a 303 211. And fella he lost two weeks of his life. And it but you're but you're doing. You're doing 12 hours for how many days in a row.

Sean Hunter 47:53
So we work a Pitman schedule. So I work Monday and Tuesday, and then I'll work all weekend. So I'll work Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and then it just flips that next week. So after I work Friday, Saturday, Sunday, I'll be off Monday, Tuesday, work Wednesday and Thursday and then all Friday, Saturday, Sunday.

Scott Benner 48:14
Okay, so there's these two days, the keep moving forward on the counter you have off Monday. You'll have off like Wednesday, Thursday, then Monday, Tuesday, Friday, sad like that kind of a thing. But you're always working live.

Sean Hunter 48:26
Yep. So it's easier to think about it. We just we basically we have every other Friday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday off every other good schedule. I like it,

Scott Benner 48:36
it is but now how does your management change? Or does it daytime to nighttime days off? How do you do it? Do you find yourself changing basal rates or anything like that.

Sean Hunter 48:47
The only thing that I find is I may have to back my bazel down on a network because I kind of jacked my bazel up I have my babies will setting kind of jacked up at night when I sleep because I tend to rise when I sleep. Um so I kind of use the technique that you've talked about is like the to two hours before I see the rise I've kind of jacked my bazel up and it's helped level out my sugar overnight while I'm sleeping. But But with that jacked up basal rate I kind of just kind of Temp Basal while I'm at work at night. I know I can set up different bazel patterns on the pod, but I think that's more complicated than my brain can handle. You know what I mean? Trying to switch Sorry, guys,

Scott Benner 49:38
no, no, I feel like you could do it but but I think you would need three different three different programs you would need. You'd need a day off, you need your day off program. You'd need a night night work program in a day work program. I would think I would think there's a way to do that. And then you have to just go go into your settings and change from days to nights. But anyway, you're doing great. It's not like you need it. But if it makes it easier for you on day,

Sean Hunter 50:08
yeah, it's definitely just been easier to kind of Temp Basal as I need it, you know, or if I see, if I see a change, you know, looking at my graph, I can just kind of temp it and then deal with it.

Scott Benner 50:19
So now do you ride with someone? Or are you in a single

Sean Hunter 50:23
now, so where we ride solo? Our Town is kind of small enough, where we have a two guy minimum for the street. We work squads of three guys. So a supervisor in two patrolmen. We, like I said, we ride solo, it's easier to cover more area, we have a four square mile town, which is small, but we are still pretty busy with calls for service. Yeah.

Scott Benner 50:51
I was wondering about the guys that you work with? Do you? Have you told each and every one of them? Do you tell each one of them? Or do they just know on their own? Or is it private? Like, how do you handle being diabetic in a setting like that?

Sean Hunter 51:06
So everyone knows. I don't if I'm not mistaken, I don't think it has has to come up really on like a hiring process. I think it I think it's a something that should come up in a job like, like a police officer, you know, it's more demanding than like a desk job, you know, something like that. But like I said, everyone knows, the gods that I work with, know, they're not super knowledgeable on like, what to do in different situations. They kind of know. I'm like, they know what my alarms go off. They look at me like you are, right.

Scott Benner 51:45
Guys are great, aren't they? Just guys, I don't know. Women will never really be able to appreciate this. But when you just get a bunch of guys together. I'm sure you work with females too. But guys are just like, y'all right now. Yeah. All right, good. And then it's sort of like, I wish you knew how little we thought about things. Generally speaking. I get the vibe, but you're saying they check on you a little bit. And that doesn't get old for you like it feels brotherly, I guess?

Sean Hunter 52:12
Yeah, I don't, I don't mind it. I've always been really open about my diabetes. And I really don't care that I have it. It's up sometimes. But, um, it's a part of me. So I think that, you know, people should know that I have it and how to deal with it. You know, especially with being on the SWAT team. I talk to those guys about it. We have a medic on the team who's just specifically assigned to have medical interventions and we need it and I you know, I gave him some glucose Joe and told him like, Hey, listen, if I go down you know, if I pass out or something look at my look at my phone if my numbers right, give me some some glucose, you know, but that's really the

Scott Benner 52:54
extent of it.

Sean Hunter 52:55
Yeah, the extent of knowledge that they really need to know about it.

Scott Benner 52:59
Your is your SWAT team, like my buddies is it made up of guys from a lot of neighboring towns, and when something happens, you all come together?

Sean Hunter 53:07
Yeah, we have about five or six different towns that are on the team. We're like 20 to 22 guys.

Scott Benner 53:15
And then you support all the team supports all those towns in the the the situation where it's needed, how often do you get called for that,

Sean Hunter 53:24
um, kind of few and far between for call outs, especially now, you know, the, the virus and everything that's going around. So we'll get called out every once in a while for like a barricaded subject or, you know, emotionally disturbed person, something like that, where people are barricaded in a house, and we're, you know, obviously the people who are more well trained for those situations. But we also do search warrants, like narcotic search warrants, and high tech crime search warrants, like different stuff like that we do those more, more than we get called out for situations.

Scott Benner 54:04
How has COVID-19 changed how you do your job?

Sean Hunter 54:10
Yes, so we've, I don't know if it's for the better or not, but we've definitely changed the way that we do things. We're handling a lot more calls over the phone. So like, whereas before somebody would call calling like a theft complaint or something like that they're reporting something stolen, we would go out to their house and talk to them and you know, get all their information meishan then do the report. Whereas now we're, you know, handling that call over the phone. So we don't have contact with people.

Scott Benner 54:42
It's gonna be an app one day.

Sean Hunter 54:44
Yeah, I mean, there's there's actually a lot of police departments that are doing it now where you can report like non violent crimes or you know, property crimes on their, their website, you can just go on, put in the information for your report, and then it'll be investigated. The police departments, they're probably really

Scott Benner 55:03
work on the street, they'll just do. Like they'll do crime. digitally. That's really that makes sense, though. I mean, honestly, it's the population explodes. You can't be everywhere constantly, right? I mean, it's just, it just makes sense. And the limiting contact is limiting contact, but but in a, in a real situation. Okay, listen, I know, there's they've probably given you, I don't want to get you in trouble, they've probably given you rules about how to handle yourself. But the fact of the matter is that if something goes down, out of nowhere quick, you're not going to stop to cover your face before you go do your job, right? Like, you're gonna end up doing what you're going to do. I don't see how in some lines of work, that's, you don't mean like, hold on a second, I'm sorry, that guy's hitting you. Let me just get my face mask on before I come over there and help. Like, that's not going to be the case? Do you find yourself somewhere between reality and what a perfect situation would call for?

Sean Hunter 56:06
Yeah, so we actually have a response protocol or continuum that we have, that our command staff put on to us. And that, you know, there's always that, that section that says, If you know, everything in this, you know, policy or whatever is subject to, you know, situations. So if there is a situation like you're explaining where it is, or emergent, like we're pulling up in, someone's getting beat up or something like that, we're not going to take into account the time to put a face mask on or put our personal protective equipment on, you know, we have to go address the situation. And then once everything is calmed down, then we'll go back and we'll put our mask on, and we'll deal with that, you know, but we have a, we have a job to do we have a duty to protect people. And that's what I'm going to do, I'm not going to worry about, you know, there's no time it takes to put that mask on.

Scott Benner 57:01
How do you personally think of COVID-19 in relationship to you having type one are you going with? I mean, I'm sure you're you're being careful as you can, but are you going with I'm healthy, my blood sugar's are stable, they're in a good range, I'm probably no more risk than someone else, or do you have concerns?

Sean Hunter 57:23
I wouldn't say I have a lot of concerns I, I kind of and like you said, I'm, I'm pretty healthy. I think my immune system is pretty good, you know, minus the fact that I have diabetes, but I wouldn't say I'm too concerned about contracting it. And I think if I did contract it, I think I would, you know, I would be okay, fighting it off, you know, or having my body deal with it?

Scott Benner 57:49
Well, as my friend Vicki said, to me, your immune system is pretty toxic, kick the shit out of your pancreas. So it's, it's a very strange situation to be in, though, honestly, you know, you're you're looking and it makes sense, what I'm hearing, I don't disagree with like, I cover my face, when I go out, I don't think I'm sick. But if I am, I don't want to make someone else sick during this time, you know, or wherever, if I can help it. And at the same point, you know, we have to be a little realistic, that you know, moving forward, we're not all going to live inside of our homes for the rest of our lives. It's just not what's going to be, I really hope we get to a point where we protect people who are at risk. And you know, and everyone else sort of gets to go back and do what they're going to do. But yeah, I mean, you're just in a unique situation. You really are. Yeah, I've seen I've seen it happen. Fire calls and rescue calls. I've seen it happen with police officers, there's a moment where you have to make a decision and you can't always do everything, you can always open up the book and follow the steps. Sometimes it has to be, you know, like you said, this is emergent, we needed to act right now. There's a story the other day about a a very, um, you know, dedicated nurse who had a, I forget where it happened, but she had a patient who was in trouble and she ran into the room and it ended up killing the nurse. Like she died a couple of weeks later from Corona. And but she didn't they say she didn't stop. She knew she wasn't unaware of what she was doing. But she felt a calling to help these people. It's what her job was, and she did it. And that's what it called for in the moment. I'm assuming that's how police officers feel as well.

Sean Hunter 59:26
Yeah, there's a like I said, there's a there's a calling like you said, No, we have a purpose. World everyone has a purpose. And you know, my purpose is to go out and help people and make a difference, or at least try and make a difference. And that's what I that's what I do every day I strap on the uniform and strap the vest on I go out and try to fulfill that purpose and make a difference in someone's world.

Scott Benner 59:47
Good dude, man. Like it's a special person who's willing to to take a job like that I think of you know, it's it's really strange because, you know, over the last number of years, you'll hear stories worries about, you know, cops who aren't doing things the right way or, you know, violating people's civil liberties in a way that I think everyone can look at and think that's not okay. I don't want that to be happening. But I always get afraid of just like with everything else, you don't hear enough stories about all the people are just out there doing it, you know, and doing a good job and doing it for the right reason. It's the internet or the news, you know, you hear about the bad stuff, not the good. It's nobody, nobody takes five minutes to click through a picture to find out about, you know, a police officer who stopped in, you know, got a cat out of a tree or helped a woman across the street, not to use a bunch of old, you know, tired ideas, but you don't mean like, just to do the regular everyday things that people need. It's a kindness, and it's their job. And we never hear about that, you know, right. It's, it sucks. It really is. It's terrible, to have bad apples be able to ruin the whole barrel. But, you know, especially when you're out there working so hard and doing such a good job. So I really appreciate what you're doing. And I'm sure everyone else does as well, especially with your circumstances. But moreover, Shawn, I'm really thrilled with how far you've come with your type one and what is basically like six or seven months. That's it? Yeah,

Sean Hunter 1:01:11
I definitely feel better. And I appreciate, you know, you put in the info out there, you've definitely helped me because I, I've known a lot of these things, you know, whether it's Pre-Bolus saying or, you know, using a little bit less insulin if my sugars high and trying to make it come down a little bit more gradually than, you know, then plummeting, you know, I'm getting my basal rates, right. I've known all these things, but kind of hearing it from somebody else and hearing from a podcast, you know, I listen to a lot of podcasts is you know, it's definitely helped. And it's definitely pushed me to to make a change.

Scott Benner 1:01:45
I'm thrilled for you. I really wish I understood, I think I you know, in a broad way, have the idea of what it's like, but I still don't like when people like you say what you just said like I knew a lot of this I just didn't do it. Do you have a feeling for what it was about hearing it through a podcast that made you go I'm gonna try this do you think you were just ready? Or did it flip a switch? Do you have any idea even you might not even know,

Sean Hunter 1:02:12
man, I don't really know what like you said I could just be I was ready to do it, you know, kind of just ready to take take them not the risk, but you know, take the risk and just say Screw it, I'm gonna I'm gonna mess with my basal rates. Now I'm gonna do the stuff and see if it works. And you know, if it works, it works. If it doesn't, then I'll just change it. I don't know if you've ever heard of Jocko Willink in his podcast, but he talks about having, you know, being disciplined in your life. And this is how discipline equals freedom and I try to live that way in my personal life and my work life and be disciplined in the things I do. But I wasn't really being too disciplined with my diabetes, I was kind of letting that go to the wayside. So I think it was just me realizing it was time to take control of the diabetes and you know, be in control of everything in my life rather than just letting one thing go

Scott Benner 1:03:07
on. Like, I've got all these other things in line, why am I Why the hell am I ignoring this one thing that's got such impact over you know, everything about me really, like you could be as good at your job or as good at being married or you know, whatever else you're going to be at, but your blood sugar's are bouncing all over the place and you feel like hell and you're hurting your long term health, like what's the point of the rest of it? Like that's got to be first. Right? So and Jacko tacos the the military guy, right? Was he a seal?

Sean Hunter 1:03:34
is a retired Navy SEAL? Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:03:35
is he the guy that puts like the time he gets up in the morning on his Instagram every day. It's like someone godly early time is that the person

Sean Hunter 1:03:43
he takes a picture of his watch, everyone gets up at 430 and works out.

Scott Benner 1:03:46
God bless him, he deserves to be in good shape. If he's up at 430. I try to wake up at 430 and there's gonna be a noise from my knee and my ankle in my lower back. That's like, Brother, you better lay back down. But, but I guess I'd be better off if I was up working out. But let's not. Let's not do too much. So I think what I've learned here is that it's just like when I'm talking to people privately, and you'll talk for like 45 minutes, and sometimes you end up laying, I'll end up laying things out. And I can tell it's the first time they've ever heard them. But in the end, whether it's the first time they've ever heard them, or it's the 50th time and they're finally going to listen, a lot of the times I feel like my role in that moment is just, it's a pat on the bud. It's like you could do this, move your bazel and see what happens. Try this and see what happens. You know, I mean, like I think sometimes people just need a voice to say to them, what's the worst that can happen? Like you're only moving at point one like I said to someone we were doing a zoom the other day and I the lady's like can I move my kids bazel from you know where it is to this? And I was like, Look, I don't know like for certain I can't tell you I'm like but what I can tell you is the kid weighs 40 pounds and you're asking me about moving is bazel point oh five. I'm not a doctor, but always that's gonna kill anybody. Like give it a shot and see what happens. You know, and I said it if it's blood sugar starts going down, put it back. But you don't you know, you're not you don't have to stand there and watch it. It's it's, there's no rules like, Oh, you move it, you got to leave it there. So that's, that's really excellent. And I good for you. I think that's wonderful. I'm gonna, I'm going to say thank you and let you go. And then I just I want to tell you one more thing privately. So if you don't mind, can you hold on one second? Yeah, absolutely. So I appreciate you doing this. Thank you so much. Hey, huge thanks to Sean for wanting to be on the show, share his story, and give encouragement to younger people who'd like to be of service to others. And thanks to Dexcom, makers of the G six continuous glucose monitor You can learn more about it@dexcom.com Ford slash juice box and of course the Omni pod tubeless insulin pump and it's free. No Obligation demo offer can be found at my Omni pod.com forward slash juice box. Don't forget to head over to touch by type one.org on Saturday 7pm. Eastern Time, check out that dancing for diabetes program. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of the Juicebox Podcast.

#404 How would you help a newly diagnosed friend?

People living with type 1 diabetes share their thoughts about what helps a newly diagnosed person.

From the Juicebox Podcast private Facebook group

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Scott Benner 0:00
Hello everyone and welcome to Episode 404 of the Juicebox Podcast. Today's show is sponsored by everybody but has no ads.

Scott Benner 0:11
Dexcom makers of the dexcom g six continuous glucose monitor and the Omni pod tubeless insulin pump. We're also going to thank g Volk hypo pen touched by type one, the T one D exchange, and the Contour Next One blood glucose meter. You can find out more about the dexcom G six@dexcom.com Ford slash Juicebox Podcast forget it's covered completely now for veterans. So if you're in the VA, definitely check out the link. You can also get a free no obligation demo of the Omni pod tubeless insulin pump at my Omni pod.com Ford slash juice box check out Arden's blood glucose meter at Contour Next one.com forward slash juice box g Volk glucagon.com forward slash juice boxes where you'll learn more about g voke hypo pen. And don't forget to touch by type one dancing for diabetes event is coming up very soon touched by type one.org. And you can add your name to the T one D registry very simply, very quickly at T one d exchange.org. forward slash juicebox. There are links in the show notes and links at Juicebox podcast.com.

I logged on to the Facebook page recently for the podcast the private one that you can find by searching for Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes, when I saw Jenna's post, and it really caught my eye. Please remember while you're listening to Jenna's post, and the hundred and 84 comments that were left behind it, don't worry, I don't think I'm going to read every one of them. Please remember while you're listening, that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise. Please always consult a physician before making changes to your health care plan for becoming bold with insulin. Jenna's post is really lovely. And I'd like to read it to you now. Hello all. I am not the parent of a type one diabetic. But my very best friend's son was just diagnosed over the weekend. They should be coming home from the hospital tomorrow. And I want to help her navigate this transition home.

Right now she is scared, very overwhelmed, and has information overload. Please give me any advice you could that helped you in the beginning. I want to put together a giant care package with tips, tools, items, or information you wished you had or that helped you. Any input you can share with us will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. D share shared that her biggest concern coming home with her five year old were snacks and she was looking for free snacks you know quote unquote free snacks as she's trying to figure out this insulin thing. So she said string cheese simple, simply smart popcorn, jerky, sugar free jello and olives were some examples of things that helped her transition in the beginning. Joni wanted to share that things will get easier. You should get a Dexcom and join a support group. Jennifer says while you're a great friend, perfect portions makes us scale to weigh foods and it tells you how many carbs that has counting carbs accurately is very important. While you're getting dosages adjusted. She also suggests getting a really cool backpack to carry the supplies around then. And that in the beginning having little bags of snacks pre counted with their carbs makes things easier. Nita popped in to say that she loves the scale she has greater goods, nourish digital kitchen food scale, please know that I have never used any of these products. I'm just reading the while this thread goes on forever. Someone else is amazed that a scale can count carbs. Kelly brings in another scale. This one is the nutria track. Apparently there are a number of these scales. You put something on tell it Hey, this is an apple or whatever. And it tells you the carbs. I wonder how well that works. Oh, well this scale thing freaks out a number of people. And then Julia says this is a wonderful community to start with. Oh, thank you Julia. The podcast that they This group is based on is a wonderful resource. Julia, you're very nice. Episode 11 is a great starting point. And then Julia brings something up that I would have suggested defining diabetes, the series within this podcast that just defines terms is very helpful in the beginning, while people are throwing new words at you, and you don't know any of them. aleena says, be patient with yourself, your child and this empire and this entire process because it will get easier. The first few weeks or months are wacky, and she warns to look out for a honeymoon period. For those of you listening, don't know, a honeymoon period is a time where the body still may make some insulin. And that can get confusing when you're measuring insulin using it, then you get some that's man made and some that's still made in the pancreas, it can make things a little wonky. So look out for the honeymoon period. If you get one, which not everyone does. Nina says that a lot of her friends were actually at home when she got there to support her, they brought, you know more quote unquote free snacks. And they did some stuff around the house that helped. So that the family could settle in. That's really lovely. I have to say that that was done for me to reminding you that I am a stay at home dad. When we returned from our vacation where Arden was diagnosed, a number of family members came and just cleaned our house top the bottom just you know, like put us in a reset in the house. And it was really helpful not to have to worry about stuff like that. In those first couple of weeks. It's a great idea. Becky says to know you're not alone is huge. And if Jenna could do her best to try to understand type one diabetes, that would be amazing. She also says that she wished she found this podcast years ago, and that has changed her life. Oh, Becky, that's really lovely. I'm very happy.

Oh, she also says get an Dexcom I agree with everybody else who said good at Dexcom. Laura says How about a nice cozy blanket. And something for the mom, like a bottle of wine or tea, something that may help comfort her. And educating yourself helps a lot to Laura said that she found the best support came from those that listen without judgment that there'll be good days and bad days. A willing ear is always very appreciated. Kimberly believes that her friend is going to need encouragement, a shoulder to cry on. And she brings up free snacks too. So obviously that's gonna keep coming up. And I want to say that when someone says a free snack, they're talking about food that doesn't need to be covered with insulin. And while there are some things that just have absolutely no carbohydrates in them that don't impact your blood sugar. I'd like to mention here that there are some things that have no carbs in them that people will tell you are free, that could have an impact on your blood sugar down the line. That's a higher level understanding. But we do have an episode about it. It's called diabetes, pro tip fat and protein. That said, in a nutshell, you could eat protein, like, like beef, for example, though, as it gets broken down in your system gets stored as glucose and can raise your blood sugar. Now it doesn't raise it nearly the same as if you you know, had a juice or an orange or an apple. But there is still impact calling it free is a bit of a misnomer, but I understand the inference and the Denise Megan brings up low supplies. So if you're listening and you're newly diagnosed, there are likely going to be times where you use too much insulin or balance it sort of incorrectly with the food impact and your blood sugar may start to get low. In that situation. You're going to need something to bring it up pretty quickly. Sometimes, fruit snacks hit the blood sugar very hard. As do juice boxes. My daughter uses Adam and Eve, the little Burton Ernie ones even though she's 16. Those work great and why Why? Why is my daughter carrying around a burden or any juice box when she's 16 years old, because it has a very little bit of juice in it so you get a little bang for your buck. There's only a tiny bit of juice think it's like four ounces, but it hits my daughter harder. So think about that. You don't want to have to drink 16 ounces of Gatorade 32 ounces of Gatorade to bring your blood sugar up 30 points you want. You want a hard hit. You know what I mean? Like bang, ooh, that worked. I moved 20 points. Just want to get something that you can regulate. A huge mistake I see people make is once they open the bag they eat a law. It's possible you might need to fruit snacks or three fruit snacks to fix your blood sugar. You don't have to eat all of them just because you open the package because eating all of them could bring A low blood sugar and continue to make it a higher blood sugar. Then you get on the roller coaster. And that's not fun. That's you don't want to be shooting up and then shooting down especially in the beginning when you don't understand really how the insulin works. So low blood, low blood sugar supplies, great idea. try really hard not to overdo it. Once you get on that roller coaster, it is hard to get off. David's advice, listen to the Juicebox Podcast and get a continuous glucose monitor, find some good meals and snacks that are lower carb and have the carb count ready. At the beginning, every meal was difficult for David because he couldn't think of any ideas for meals. Now he uses ingredients like vegetables, cheese, eggs, tofu, he said he's a vegetarian. But he knows that meat is also a low impact food. And don't forget about spices that can add flavor to meals. Even having one meal a day kind of prepared and understood as far as its carbon impact goes, can alleviate some of the mental weight of the diagnosis. He also says please listen to your friend because they're scared and overwhelmed. And listening really does help. David also suggest the diabetes pro tip series from this podcast. But he also says to listen at your own pace so that you don't become overloaded. Daniela offered to learn how to give shots and finger sticks.

Knowing a friend can help is a relief. That's simple and good advice. There's a follow up here to that one that was going to be my advice, learning ratios and all you can about specific care to help her out if she needs a break. This would have been so helpful when my son was diagnosed. And even now, eight years later, this would be the best gift in support you could give. Robin says that she's a nurse, and so is Jenna. And she says from one health care professional to another, please know that what we learned in our training about Type One Diabetes could never prepare you to be the parent of a child with type one. That there is a level of complexity in precise science, constant dynamics of change meal prep body's response to meals, response to school sickness, fear sports, these things all have an impact that you couldn't be ready for. Holly says to try to think about numbers you know blood sugar numbers as information and not a measure of personal value. She said she struggled with this personally for a while. In her 45 years as a person living with Type One Diabetes. She was able to help her daughter only think of the number as a piece of information on which to base a decision. I think that is actually great advice. Catherine says listen to the podcast. Thank you, Catherine. Lots of stories of people going through the same thing, plus tips and lots of good real world information, which I discovered it when I was first diagnosed. She also very much likes the book bright spots and land mines by a former guest on the show Adam Brown. Adams writing she says are clearly written and very helpful. Jennifer says here's a big one. And it's difficult to do never judge or react strongly to a blood glucose reading. You're gonna see highs and lows. But there are no bad numbers. Just simply your guide to adjusting ratios. Try to keep strong emotions out of your diabetes decisions. Always being a frustrated, sad angry can obviously lead to bigger issues. Jennifer, I know how you found this podcast. I like the way you think. Rebecca says she wished she knew that some of the older slow acting insulins were more impactful when they were split and used every 12 hours instead of once a day. Gina says she just got a meal that somebody made for and how wonderful it was to receive something that, you know, she didn't have to cook herself. Jodi brings up something here that I'd like to say, which is that putting a time restraint on when you're going to feel better is sort of silly, I did this I've shared it on the podcast before it was a bad idea. I got it into my head that you know, in a year I would really understand diabetes. So don't think oh, it's been a month or it's been a week or it's been a year. I should know all this by now. It takes a lot of time to have the experiences that build the knowledge base that you end up using day to day. They don't just come all at once. And often you'll have the experience and not recognize it as a valuable experience. So you don't save it. Or I also think you can be so freaked out in the beginning that you gret you get this great lesson and it just doesn't register at the time. having patience and not putting timelines on things, I think is a great suggestion. There's a follow up that idea here from Michelle. She said that there was a ton of grieving, discomfort. Don't forget this thing as traumatic. It's a loss of normalcy. There's going to be tears and frustration and anger but she was amazing. That how quickly things like that translated away, as she found things like Dexcom, or learned that there were some foods that didn't, you know, impact blood sugars. And in finding this podcast, she said, Actually, it looks like she found the podcast while she was still in the hospital with her daughter and it helped her a lot. Well, I'm glad Michelle, that's excellent. Michelle says less than 60 days later, she's transitioned to a dexcom g six. She's talked about her diabetes with their teacher and her classmates. And everything is, you know, getting normal, she's even back to playing volleyball, golf, tennis, I think that's a good, that's a really great message too, for anyone that this is not a permanent loss of normalcy. It's a temporary pausing while you figure out how to do things with diabetes. And then soon, you'll realize it's not that big of a deal to go out and play baseball and have type one diabetes, a lot of people do it. You can tell favia says that, of course everyone is different. But for her as the mother of a child with Type One Diabetes, she was mentally physically and emotionally drained after the diagnosis in hospital, say, a friend sent her flowers, and then just let her vent, and that it was a huge help.

Carrie says a 504 plan is a really big help. And for those of you who don't know what that is, it's a care plan that your school has to legally adhere to make. So a lot of things go smoother. Jamie says that her four year old was diagnosed at two and she wishes somebody would have just told her it's going to be okay, at some point, just reassurance that it's going to be okay. Lisa has not to make a lot of plans because there's going to be a lot to do right now. That's insightful and simple. Lee, you're learning Type One Diabetes right now. And it's kind of hard to do that while you're painting the garage. This has been said a couple of different ways but not so specifically, Holly says being able to offer to babysit is a big deal. Just childcare in general. So somebody could take a nap or a bath or just get away for a minute is a really big help. Jeanette says it's not a jail sentence. It's a lifestyle change. That viewpoint really helped. Sarah said it was important for her to have somebody there to support her but not to pretend that they understood what they were going through. This is a deep idea. And emotionally important. I don't think that it's a good idea to say oh my gosh, my aunt has diabetes. I know all about this. That's not great. Empathy, real empathy, not. I know how you feel, or I can't imagine Of course you can't imagine it's great that you can't imagine your kid doesn't have diabetes, right? You You don't have it. But coming in with with honest support, I think is what Sarah's saying, not you know, don't pretend. Bernadette says that her son was diagnosed at 13. And one of the best things that she did was to get him involved in his own care from the beginning. Finger sticks, giving himself an injection. He saw that he could do it believed he could handle it and gained a lot of confidence. And then soon he was telling her to relax that he's got it. It's excellent. A couple people have mentioned the genteel Lance. I guess it's like a suction Lance that people say it doesn't hurt as much I don't know my daughter says her Lance doesn't hurt she has the well how about that my daughter's had diabetes for so long. I can't think of the multi clicks or something clicks. See Li x we love It's terrific. But I guess everybody will find one that they like, ooh, fast clicks. It's called fast clicks.

Unknown Speaker 18:53
Got it.

Scott Benner 18:53
It's cool because it has a drum and you don't have to change it all the time. You'll see if you if you check it out. Lena says that the person asking the question Jenna could listen to the podcast to to absorb some ideas. She's found that meal planning apps can be helpful. And a grocery shopping buddy who helps you read labels. It's nice idea. One person here just says you're just such a lovely friend. And they remember being so lonely and sad. When they came home from the hospital Julia Julia is a frequent guest on the show said you're an amazing friend. I recommend not forgetting to help your friend. From the emotional standpoint she's likely drained and may think she can do it anything you can do to help take that burden off like errands or chores to help her relax would be very helpful. Julia. Cassie reminds us all that sleep is important. So anything you can do to help somebody take a nap I agree napping very important. Natalie said her child was just diagnosed and this post made her cry. Because of what a good friend, Jenna is, Taylor says, This is interesting. We just came home last week, I cried a lot, a lot. make her laugh, she'll cry too. But it'll be good. Don't try to point out the good parts of anything. But if you do point out something good, just reminder that everything is still the same, she can still play sports and eat food. She's still gonna have her first sleep over, go to college. And I'd like to add something here. I didn't find it helpful when people said, Oh, your kid got this because you can handle it. The inference that I am a together person and able to shoulder a burden of a medical diagnosis is not comforting. I think that's a little bit about what Taylor was saying there Don't point out the good parts to me. Don't say stuff like, Oh, well, at least you have health insurance, and stuff like that, because none of that is helpful. Vanessa points out that no one described the differences in carbs to her. And this is something we talk about on the podcast a lot. The glycemic load and glycemic index of different foods, which at its core, and at its very basic nature means that 10 carbs of grapes will impact your blood sugar differently than 10 carbs of a baked potato. And knowing that would be really helpful, especially when the impact dictates how much insulin it needs. So 10 carbs of one thing is not necessarily going to be the same as 10 carbs of another. Jill, I appreciate you bringing that up. Jay brings up something I think happens to a lot of people I wish she says that I knew my daughter could eat whenever she wanted. As long as I gave her insulin, the first day home, I thought she could only eat at certain times. And she sees a lot of moms with that same confusion. I agree. Sometimes when the hospital and the doctor are giving you rules, the rules seem very concrete. And it turns out, they're a lot more flexible than you think. I would say that common sense is a big, big and valuable tool in living with type one diabetes, and not getting brainwashed by something someone said to you one time is really important. Theresa brings up what I think is another great point to remind her that her child is the same person that nothing has changed about who the child is. I struggled in the beginning with not looking at my daughter and seeing diabetes before I saw her very important not to do that. Look at Alexandra jumps in and says give her my information. I'd be happy to talk to her if she needs help. That's really nice. Jennifer brings up my point don't say God knew that she could handle this if she gave her kid diabetes. Yeah, that's a obvious thing you would think but a lot of people say it. Margarita brings up something that I'm going to have a podcast episode about soon as I can. She said that she went through the stages of grieving while her son was diagnosed, and that it's fine. But you have to give yourself some time. Don't forget to take care of yourself as the parent. Very, very, very important. Another vote for a babysitter. Stephen says that once the initial shock of the diagnosis wears off, he found that the words education is the great equalizer are absolutely true. He's telling you to learn about how insulin works. Learn about how food impacts you learn about the quality of food, this one's coming from me. Processed foods are much more difficult to manage with insulin than more natural foods. It's just the truth. You can do it like I could Bolus a pop tart, but you're not going to figure that out on the first day. That's difficult. more votes are sending her friend wine. Cheese. You guys are a bunch of drunks.

Sima says you're an awesome friend for asking. Oh, Kelly, be the person that she doesn't have to be brave for. That's a that's an interesting way of thinking about a shoulder to cry on. You just be a place where your friend can be honest and doesn't have to pretend it's a great idea. Taryn says that someone that can help with the rest of the family, if there are other siblings is a big help. So those kids don't feel like they're just sort of being shelved while you're figuring out diabetes. Andy says this is good and he said that when she was coming home from the hospital, they were given like a packet of papers by everyone that she met with and that they need to be organized and going gone over and sorted out. And that even some of the things that are being said here aren't going to make any sense to her at the moment. She's going to need time to figure it all out. She also says that going to pick up her prescriptions for would be really helpful. Oh, Sarah, you are Oh girl after my own heart office. To do her laundry and bring her coffee, I don't drink coffee. But anyone who would do my laundry is a lifelong friend. Oh, Lois says Get her here on the on the this Facebook page will give her access to all kinds of great information. Thank you, Lois. I think it's a great Facebook page too. All right. Just listen, let her cry. Have her listen to the podcast that changed my life. I'm going through a little quickly now. Tina gave some lists of some carb counts that are, you know, you can kind of download off the internet so you don't have to guess. And Jenna comes in and says thank you This by the way, this thread is now four days old, as Jenna comes in to say thank you again. And Jen has been very responsive and, and Harding everybody stuff and everything. And then this guy comes in and says that the thread is going to become a podcast episode. If you'd like to join the Facebook group, there's links right here in the show notes of your podcast player, and at Juicebox podcast.com. But you can always search Juicebox Podcast, Type One Diabetes on Facebook, to join today. Hey, huge thanks to Jenna for making a post that got such great responses. And thank you to everyone who responded. I genuinely believe that this is the kindest place I've ever seen on Facebook, especially wrapped around type one diabetes. So many listeners, so many wonderful and thoughtful replies.

I'd like to also take a moment to thank the sponsors of the show. Because this is me, you know, going through a Facebook post and reading what I think are really helpful replies, it takes time. I know it'll take you a half an hour to listen to it. But it takes me hours and days to produce this episode and get it to you as it does with all of them. This podcast is absolutely free to the listeners because it is ad supported. So if you have the opportunity to check out one of the sponsors, please do if you're looking, you know for an insulin pump, check out the Omni pod. You don't have to buy it. But check it out, get the free no obligation pump santia. See what you think. If you're thinking about Dexcom, use my link to get there. And this same goes for all of the other advertisers. Every year around this time, they look back and see how many of you clicked on a link. And that's how they decide if they want to sponsor the show for another year. That's how a year from now you'll get another episode. It's how a week from now you'll get it one is actually going to be two more episodes this week. So that'll end up being somewhere around four hours worth of content just this week. It takes me I am the Booker of the show. I am the one who conducts the episodes. I edit, produce, do the technical parts of leveling the sound, getting you the episode, supporting it on social media. I think that each hour of content that you hear probably takes me six to seven hours to create. And I love it like don't get me wrong, this is the best job in the world. But it is ad supported. So click on the link, check out the sponsors. Tell someone else about the show. I mean, really, if if the show continues to grow, then we shouldn't have any trouble keeping the sponsors. You know what I mean? So if the podcast is really been valuable to you, and you meet somebody else who you think it could be valuable to also telling them is maybe the kindest thing you could do to keep the podcast going. So with all that in mind, thank you to the dexcom g six continuous glucose monitor. Find out more dexcom.com forward slash juice box and the Omni pod tubeless insulin pump my Omni pod.com forward slash juice boxes where you can get a free no obligation demo of the Omni pod sent directly to you. To learn more about the Contour Next One blood glucose meter go to Contour Next one.com forward slash juice box. See what's going on it touched by type one at touched by type one.org. Don't forget that their dance extravaganza is coming up in just a few days. Check out that link for more information. If you're a US resident, add your name to the T one D exchange registry. They're looking for data from you simple, easy type one diabetes related data to help grow care for everyone. It's completely anonymous and 100% HIPAA compliant. T one d exchange.org. Ford slash juice box. No kidding. I Had some computer issues a few weeks ago, those of you who clicked on key Wendy exchange.org, forward slash juice box and filled out the registry questions paid for online backup of my data and on site backup, so I was able to buy some hard drives and get a backup service for the shows that have already been created. I know some of you may know I had like a computer issue, as a bit of a scary didn't lose anything. But there were 63 unproduced, but recorded episodes of the podcast on a computer. And I now have redundancy set up that was paid for by those of you who clicked on T one d exchange.org. forward slash juice box in October. It's very cool. It's amazing. People like to learn more about g vo cuyp open G Volk glucagon.com forward slash juice box. last little bits. If you have a great doctor, or you're looking for one, check out juicebox docs.com. That's where listeners of this show are sharing their favorite practitioners. If you have one, send them in through the website. And if you need one, go check it out. We have them all over the United States and all over the world actually more come in every day. Are you looking for those diabetes pro tip episodes. You can find them right there in your podcast player beginning in Episode 210. Or they're all neatly displayed at diabetes pro tip.com. Those of you who are looking for help, because you're newly diagnosed, I hope you'll go back, check out the Facebook page talk with people.

I really think the diabetes pro tip episodes are invaluable as our defining diabetes episodes. And we have some great stuff coming up in 2021. Jenny's gonna take all of the notes that she gets from people. And you know what? That's too soon. Let's just tease that out a little longer. I'm not gonna tell you what Jenny and I are doing yet in 2021. But let's just say yeah, gonna love it. Alright, thanks so much for listening to the podcast. Two more episodes coming this week. The holidays are upon us. I know. It's been a long year for everybody. I hope you're doing okay. But through it all. You've supported the podcast in record numbers. As the show approaches, 3 million downloads. I feel incredibly lucky and grateful that you're here, that you're sharing that you're listening and that you're having the outcomes that you are. It's really heartwarming. And I just want to thank you as we go into the holiday season. I'll see you soon.

#399 After Dark: Heroin Addiction

ADULT TOPIC WARNING

Neva began her addiction with oxicotin at age 17. A decade later she is in recovery from opiates with the help of medically assisted treatment.

You can always listen to the Juicebox Podcast here but the cool kids use: Apple Podcasts/iOS - Spotify - Amazon Alexa - Google Play/Android - iHeart Radio - Radio Public or their favorite podcast app.

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Scott Benner 0:10
Hello, everybody and welcome to Episode 399 of the Juicebox Podcast. This episode of the show is actually the 10th in the after dark series. If you've been listening to the after dark series we've talked so far about type one diabetes and drinking weed smoking trauma, addiction, sex from both a female and male perspective, depression and self harm divorce and co parenting bipolar disorder, bulimia, and today, we're going to be talking about heroin addiction. You can find all the episodes of the show as well as those other afterdark episodes in your podcast player, or at Juicebox podcast.com. Please remember, as you're listening that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, please always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan, or becoming bold with insulin. So this episode is with Niva. She's going to do an incredible job of explaining her addiction to you how it began, how it progressed, how she's tried to fight it, and during it how she was diagnosed with Type One Diabetes. She has, in fact the most unique diagnosis story that's ever been on the show. The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the Omni pod to boost insulin pump, the dexcom g six continuous glucose monitor the Contour Next One blood glucose meter, touched by type one.org and G Volk glucagon. Today's show is sponsored by touched by type one on the pod index calm, and I'll be telling you about them later in the show. For now, to get a free no obligation demo of the Omni pod. Just go to my on the pod.com forward slash juicebox to check out my favorite diabetes organization touched by type one.org. And of course you can learn all about the Dexcom G sex@dexcom.com. forward slash juice box.

Neva 2:12
My name is Neha and I live in Colorado.

Scott Benner 2:19
It's hard, isn't it? Neva? It's yourself, isn't it?

Neva 2:23
Yeah, so I'm 28 years old. I'll be 29 in December. And I am a type one diabetic. And I am also a recovering heroin addict.

Scott Benner 2:36
There you go. So now for everybody listening naevus email came? You probably were answered back in a split second. I would imagine it was it was pretty quick. Yeah. Well, I know a good story when I hear one.

Neva 2:49
Yeah. And I often say that to like, I feel like my life should be a movie sometimes. I knew it was a good one. So I thought I, you would like it. I thought you would like it. By the

Scott Benner 2:58
time I got to the fourth sentence and I read Suboxone. I just replied Yes, here use this link yourself the time and date that works for you. So and I know. Yeah. So you're you're doing a an interesting and very kind thing. And I want to tell you this before we started when we started, but I want to tell you this before we really started getting talking that you are the fourth former heroin addict who's wanted to come on the show, but only the first that had the nerve to go through with it.

Neva 3:29
Wow, really? Yes. So I knew that like, it's kind of a really niche persona, I guess, or I don't know what what you would call it like, so I know, there's not many of us out there. But I know they are out there. So that's why I figured you know, if I have a story that can maybe help somebody you know, like, because I would like to hear somebody in my situation on a podcast like that that's has diabetes and going through, like addiction is addiction. But heroin addiction is like a completely different ballgame. Yeah,

Scott Benner 4:01
we'll dig into it so that people can try to understand But no, yeah, I am. It's been over the last I'd say two and a half to three years. Every once in a while someone reaches out and they really want to tell the story. And then something gets in the way. Either they kind of change their mind. Sometimes it's legal issues that are still ongoing, right?

Unknown Speaker 4:22
Yeah. A

Scott Benner 4:24
lot of stuff that happens the behind the scenes part of this podcast is way better than the podcast just so you some of the the conversations I get to have like very privately, I'm like, wow, I wish people could hear these. Yeah. So so let's dig in a little bit. I guess we're gonna start by asking what leads So you see, you said you started with pills. You said that's pretty common for kids.

Neva 4:49
Right? Yeah. So basically, so I told you I was 28 I in high school. So my addiction started when I was about 17. It was like right at the end of high school, I got involved with a guy that I really liked in high school, he became my boyfriend and he used pills. And what he used was, I think it was like Vicodin, and like Xanax and stuff. And, you know, I was kind of at that age where our time in my life where I wanted to experiment, and I just kind of, I had the mindset, like, oh, try everything once you know. And so and I'm just a curious person, just in general. So I always want to just know what things are, like, just have the experience behind me. And so him being involved in those, and just using them made me want to try it was like, Oh, you're, you're using that. I want to use it too. And so I would try to vike it in and it would make me sick. I would throw up because I guess of the acetaminophen and like all the because I would take more than one like Viking

Scott Benner 5:55
anyone using the label?

Unknown Speaker 5:58
Um,

Neva 5:59
no, not not gonna not gonna go by the lake.

Scott Benner 6:03
You weren't like, let's see Billy's grandma's was take one of these were hip hurts. So I'll take

Neva 6:08
six. Exactly, yeah. So, so because the vikan made me so sick, we found other pet like he was like, Okay, well, if that makes you sick, try this one. And the one that he said to try was oxy cotton, and was the 30 milligram. And they had no Tylenol in them. So they, those were better. Those didn't make me sick. And so I, you know, started off, like, using a few on the weekends. And then it was a few every few days. And then it was like, one once a day. And then it was like, two every day and it just kept going on and on. And, um, so yeah, that was like 10 years ago. And I kind of knew right away that like, oh, like, I'm addicted to these things, because I'm using them every day. But I didn't. Like why it wasn't enough to make me like want to stop or just because like you would when you stop using, you know, and you're using that much and then you stop using them, you get so sick and you just do anything you can to not feel sick anymore. So I would just constantly try to keep feeling well, I guess.

Scott Benner 7:30
Yeah. Well, and so though, give me Just give me a second because we got to pace ourselves here, by the way, right? We have an hour scheduled but if this goes longer, that's okay. Right.

Unknown Speaker 7:42
Okay, right. That's okay. All right.

Scott Benner 7:44
Okay. So if you've just said 1000 things I have no first hand knowledge of I only have just kind of a tertiary understanding of so like, I remember about a dozen years ago, that what I heard people calling hillbilly heroin was was a huge problem. Right. Right. We didn't we didn't call it by its by its drug name until more recently, I think when there was some lawsuits, right? against like pharma. Yeah.

Neva 8:13
Purdue pharma, right. They, they would like, put out these commercials back in like the 90s saying, Oh, it's this breakthrough pain medication, it's non addictive, it's the best, you'll feel the best, and it'll take away your pain. And so they were just prescribing like crazy. Yeah. And that's exactly what happened is, people would doctor shop, you know, they would get multiple different doctors and get these prescriptions for oxy cotton. And these prescriptions would be like, for huge amounts like that you just bought, like, obviously, nobody that is just trying to take away you know, a little bit of chronic pain is even that is they're not going to take that much pain meds that these doctors are prescribing.

Scott Benner 9:01
You don't need 90 pills if your shoulder just feels like I don't know, when I roll my shoulder around. It seems to catch. Yeah, nothing like that. So right. Um, let's dig a little bit. Because I when you're 17 I mean, can you characterize your upbringing because people are going to think right away and even people are gonna think, well, she's brought up poorly she was always going to use drugs like so I want to I don't know that that to be true. And I want to understand what your what your launch into life was like, could 14 year old you have imagined what 17 year old you would be going through?

Neva 9:35
No, not in a million years. So that's the thing with me is it's so hard to imagine that I brought myself to such a place in got myself into what I did because I growing up I had like the best childhood I could have ever had. I have an older brother and an older sister, who are both quite a bit older than me. Brother is seven years older than me and my sister's nine years older than me. And we just always, are around family. I remember growing up and spending holidays at my grandpa's house with all my cousins, and we're just really close, big, happy family. Like, I always remember being happy. I was always happy as a kid. And

Scott Benner 10:26
then

Neva 10:27
it was in high school that I guess it just, I kind of wanted to. I think there was something in me that like, felt like, like, I wanted to rebel, because I felt like I was doing everything I should, you know, like, I was even like, in honors classes in high school, and I got good grades and all that. But there was something back there, like a kind of, like party animal that wanted to come out, I guess, you know, and there was like, no way for me to do that, I guess in like a

Scott Benner 11:06
in your own head

Neva 11:08
or a in a, like, not go big or go home kind of way, a moderate way. I couldn't do it in a moderate way. And I guess that's, I guess that's the addict part in me, you know, like, Yeah, because if I didn't have that addict gene, I could have been able to do you know, experiment with drugs when I was younger and put it down and not

Scott Benner 11:29
care on the pod? Yeah, it's just Yeah, you're gonna be okay. Through this.

Oh, yeah. All right. Cool. We're good. Um,

what was my question? On the pot threw me off. Sorry, no, no. Were you being rushed? Did you grow up with parents that were so restrictive? that were you like a be like a horse that somebody was pulling the reins back on? Like, were you like, had were? No. Do you know what I mean by that?

Neva 11:59
Yeah. Yeah. I do know what you mean. And I wouldn't say no, I, I wasn't but so when I was 10, my sister, so she would have been 19 at the time. And we were living in Colorado at the time. And she was going to college. And she was getting into some bad stuff. And she got in a really bad car accident that left her paralyzed from the waist down. And so I think kind of ever since that had happened. My parents kind of, I'm sorry, I'm just trying to make sure my stops beeping

Scott Benner 12:44
because we've hit on something here because my sister car accident, definitely a gateway to a problem. So

Neva 12:50
right, get into it. And so I think they kind of looked at me and thought like, Okay, well, we don't want her to get involved into that stuff. So we kind of need to shelter her a little bit more, but, but also, like, I looked up to my sister, you know, so it I always thought, Okay, well, she's in she's always been a party animal. She's always been crazy loved. being around people love partying. Still does to this day. So I think there was something about that, that made me want to experience that like, Oh, my older sister is doing that. Yeah. So I, so then this is like stuff I've never really quite gotten to the bottom of

Scott Benner 13:37
we're doing. Don't worry.

Neva 13:39
Yeah. Like to try to figure out why, you know, I'm an addict and all that. So. So this is interesting. All right.

Scott Benner 13:47
If you just as long as you feel like you're okay, we'll keep going. Oh, yeah. Yeah, no, I'm good. Your parents have any addiction issues at all? Is it in the extended family?

Neva 13:56
It is, so it is like, I can't even count that many alcoholics I have on my mom's side of the family. Um, all my uncles and aunts drink. Um, a lot. like not even just like social like, well, I guess it is mostly social.

Unknown Speaker 14:15
But

Neva 14:17
my, one of my aunts really likes her wine and she drinks a lot of wine. And, but then, so that's my mom's side of the family. But my dad said the family doesn't really have any. Well, it's so my mom said the family is really big. And my dad said a family's really small. But so his, my dad's dad was an alcoholic and he actually died. I guess it was from cirrhosis or something like that. When he was really young. I think he was only 50 when he passed away. I never got to meet him. Um, but other than that, there's not many Any addiction issues on that side, however, my dad all growing up, throughout my childhood was a really big pot smoker in there, and he tried to hide it, it was like a closet thing that he did, but he did it a lot. Okay, um, and so there would be times when I would like, walk in on him smoking or something, and he'd like, try to hide it. And so I think it's like little, little bits and pieces of like, stuff like that, that I got in my childhood that was kind of like, What is this, you know, like,

Scott Benner 15:31
it normalizing and it makes you feel a little like wonderment.

Neva 15:35
Right? Right.

Scott Benner 15:37
All right. Well, you have a You said you had like a third sibling?

Um, no, no, just the two of you.

Neva 15:45
No, no, there's three of us. But their older brother, an older sister.

Scott Benner 15:49
He's the brother like wrapped in, like bubble wrap somewhere? Is he just like, trying to hold on? He's like, don't let any of this happened to me, or is he?

Neva 15:56
Oh, he's I would say he's an alcoholic as well. He's got his, um, drinking issues, for sure. He drinks a lot.

Scott Benner 16:05
Let me ask you. I'm sorry, that may have nothing to do with anything. But I mean, any financial trouble growing up with your family pretty settled? Or where it was?

Neva 16:14
Yeah, growing up, we were all usually pretty, pretty good. I got pretty much almost anything I wanted growing up. We always had an I mean, we were I would say we were middle class. You know, we had a fairly nice house. Yeah. I wouldn't say it was like big or anything. But we were always like, clean people. And I would say we were pretty normal for the most part.

Scott Benner 16:37
Gotcha. You know, it's funny. I think the stuff was

Neva 16:40
a closet stuff. You know,

Scott Benner 16:42
I do imagine your father trying to hide in a small room smoking weed back before vaping or anything like that, you probably realize you're not hiding it. In case you're wondering.

Neva 16:51
Well, I remember one time. When I was really little, we went over to one of his friend's house and his friend had a daughter my age too. So we were upstairs playing and they were down in the living room. And I came down and I sat down on the couch. And I knocked over something, and it spilled. And I looked down there and he like tried to, you know, pick it up real quick and everything and wasn't a water bottle. So that was kind of weird, you know, was a bomb?

Scott Benner 17:23
Yeah. Well, so the so is the boy you met the gateway? Or is he the excuse? Do you know what I mean by

Unknown Speaker 17:32
Yeah.

Scott Benner 17:35
And why do we just want to have sex like, normal boy? Come on?

Neva 17:39
Well, we did that, too. But, um, yeah, so that is a good question. Like, I definitely think had I not met him? I don't think or, yeah, had I not met him? I don't think I would have gotten introduced into the stuff that I did. Um, so I don't think that I would have gone down the path I did. I think I would have experimented in the same way that I, you know, because we had like a raver thing that I did. And we like did ecstasy every weekend and stuff like that. But we always went back to the opiates. So I think I would experiment like with that stuff, but I don't think it would have got as like, deep and dark. Were you bored? Yeah, I think that is a big a big trigger for sure is, I think I was just kind of bored and wanting more something, you know, like, felt like my life was too normal or something. I don't know.

Scott Benner 18:45
I've long kind of held the idea that when you grow up around something like this, it does really just make it feel like, oh, everyone does this. Especially when you're younger, and you're answering your father's smoking and like, you know, this is going on, you're just like, oh, the whole world does this. This is what we do. Yeah. And it just makes you feel like I should start doing it at some point. Like, you know, if you're, I don't know that it would be any different if your family was just a bunch of like, you know, nose to the grindstone like way too hard workers 15 hours a day, if you wouldn't just grow up thinking like yeah, it's what I do. I get up and go to work and I work all day. It's too much. You know, no one ever dies saying they wish they went to the office too much, but I love it you like if you would just kind of be Yeah, you know, like, well, that

Neva 19:30
that is another thing about my family is they like my mom, I would say she's a workaholic for sure. Like she she's always like held down like three jobs at a time. It's constantly working and um

Scott Benner 19:46
well, someone's Yeah, everyone's addicted to something. Right?

Neva 19:48
Exactly. Yeah, I sign in. I'm sorry. You You did say something about like, Oh, this is what everybody does. So I do it too, or whatever. And that's the weird thing about me as I've never been much of a drinker. Um, so I wonder if that's because I've always had the drugs you know, so that's why I never really got into drinking is because I had the other

Scott Benner 20:10
vice were too busy

Neva 20:11
had I have you had I not had that maybe I would have become an alcoholic, I don't know,

Scott Benner 20:15
may ask you how you get drugs when you're 1718 years old.

Neva 20:21
So from other kids, it that's how it started was just through friends, you know that had it. And I don't know where they got it probably their parents medicine cabinet or something. And then they would give a number like, oh, we'll call this guy for this. And then that person would give a number and then you'd kind of eventually work up to like, the person that's actually like dealing the pills as their job, you know. And then so, like, a few years down the line after, like, I was 17 doing pills every day, you know, I was going to this drug dealer and getting pills every day.

Scott Benner 21:01
What do you get the money?

Neva 21:03
I had jobs I growing up. I Well, in high school, I worked at a sandwich shop. And I had that job for a while. And then I got into an office job and I've always had a job. So I've always had a way to um

did your to fund my habit?

Scott Benner 21:25
Did your entire existence was your entire existence about making money to buy drugs, buying drugs, using drugs making money to just go in a circle?

Neva 21:34
Yeah, yeah. And although I did it, like, I, it was a closet thing for me too. It was kind of like I did a double life, like I would go to work, go to school, do everything I needed to do. And then I would come home, do my drugs, wake up in the morning, do my drugs, go to work, go to school, come home, do it all over again, you know, so and I never did it like around people. It was always a thing. Or me. Like when I did when I was still with that guy. It was a thing we did together. And then we would go about her life. And then when I finally broke it off with him, I still had this addiction. So I still used um, and it was just a thing I did. Probably myself and then

Scott Benner 22:19
yeah, anybody in your family know, you were addicted?

Neva 22:23
It they do now. But did they then but they?

Sorry, my mom just peeked in the door.

Scott Benner 22:33
Tell you're busy telling the whole world about your addictions?

Unknown Speaker 22:35
Does she know? Okay.

Unknown Speaker 22:38
Hold on a sec.

Neva 22:41
Um, yes, they do know. But for a while they they didn't. Like, I would say, growing up, I'm like, or I keep saying growing growing up. But like when I was 17 1819, maybe to 20 they I think I held it secret for a while. But then things, you know, I I'd said I had a job to fund my habit for a long time. But the those funds only go so far when you have such a huge addiction. So I would do things you know that I'm not proud of to get money like I would steal from my family. And so when stuff like that starts happening, then they kind of start to look a little deeper and say, well, what's going on?

Scott Benner 23:38
wise money? Oh,

Neva 23:38
Perry. Right? Yeah. And then they were they would come out? It's funny.

Scott Benner 23:43
I would imagine that everybody who's listening had the same thing happened to me, to them. That just happened to me when you're like you said I did things I wasn't proud of my brain. Phil did what I thought you were going to say next. And oh, I wonder if everybody didn't think about 1000 different things like their their thing in their head? That would be too far, you know, right. I, when when they started noticing like things missing? Did they come to you?

Neva 24:13
Yeah. And they because and that is one thing that I have, you know, my family has always been very supportive of me, stuck by me through everything. So they just always wanted to help me, you know, so even though they were angry that I stole from them, they wanted to do what they could to help me so they, you know, they weren't, they didn't want to enable it. They wanted to, you know, get ahead of it and come to me face, you know, face me and say, Well, what do we need to do to fix this? And so that just kind of started a period of trying to get clean, relaxing, trying to get clean, relaxing, trying to get clean, relaxing. Like, I can't even count the many times and things I've tried.

Scott Benner 25:03
When you first tried, did you want to? Or were you doing it because you got caught?

Neva 25:08
I think I was doing it because I thought for sure, okay.

Scott Benner 25:12
How does it? I don't want to glamorize this, but I do want to understand. It's just is it addictive? Like an addictive property? Or is maybe my question stupid. But I'm sitting here as a guy who's like, you know, almost 50 whose back is hurt every day for the last 30 years in some way or another? And, you know, like, Is it just? Does it just make everything feel like you're floating on air? Or you gone? So what is what's the, what's the outcome of using?

Neva 25:44
It does, it does make your body feel really good. Like, I'm people. I've heard people describe it so many different ways. Like I know people say like, oh, it feels like Jesus has given you a warm hug. And yeah, it does feel good. I'm not gonna say it doesn't feel good. But there's so much other stuff that makes it feel so much worse, too. But, um, but what I was gonna say was it it does make your body feel good. But I think the appeal, especially for me, is what it did was it not only shut off my thoughts, and my racing mind, or whatever, but it it just made everything seem like it was good like it. Even though I had all these debts and these problems and these issues and this huge addiction. It just makes it makes your mind say, well, everything's fine. The world's fine, you're fine. You know, so it, I think that was a big appeal was to keep coming back to shut off the stops, right? Do you brain?

Scott Benner 26:55
Just for context, family background? What's your lineage?

Neva 27:02
Um, I am white. I, my dad is pretty much all German. And my mom is English, Polish and Irish. Okay.

Scott Benner 27:18
Are you mad at the guy? Or do you go through a time where you're mad at him?

Unknown Speaker 27:25
Yeah. I'm

Scott Benner 27:29
mad at yourself, which is,

Unknown Speaker 27:32
like,

Neva 27:36
I'm mad at him. Because, I mean, there's more to the story than just him introducing drugs to me, but he was also like, he had his own issues. So he would like, isolate me from my family, and all kinds of stuff like that. And so like, I'm mad at him for that stuff. But I think I am mostly mad at myself for just not being smart about it, I guess. Um, but also, I think, had somebody told me like, Oh, you have this addictive gene. Like, if there was a way to tell like, Oh, you have this addictive gene? Maybe I wouldn't have tried it in the first place, you know, or maybe somebody would have drawn it out for me how horrible. It can get, you know, like, not just

Unknown Speaker 28:33
like,

Neva 28:35
the stealing from family and stuff like that. But like the withdrawals, like not having it, how painful it is to go through the withdrawals. And

Scott Benner 28:45
yeah, I want to ask you about that. But I want to understand first. If that says really tough age for a girl at 17 So were you Was it a self confidence issue was just like, hey, this guy likes me. And that felt like good, or did you not have trouble with self confidence? And

Neva 29:02
so I always felt like I was pretty confident. But I think that now that you bring that up, that does make a lot of sense. Like, I think it was like okay, this guy does this, okay, he'll like, I want him to like me more so he'll like anymore if I do the same things he does. So yeah, I think that is it for and like just fitting in, you know, like, going to parties and trying to be the cool girl or whatever, you know, like smoking weed or taking ecstasy, trying to act all hard and stuff. And yeah,

Scott Benner 29:39
if I have to tell you, I do listen to the show.

Neva 29:42
Oh, yeah. I think I've heard every episode. Well, thank you and

Scott Benner 29:45
everyone else. But what are you saying you listen to every episode and so should everyone else. What are you doing?

Neva 29:53
Right That's learned a lot from it. So

Scott Benner 29:54
thank you. I'm a

Neva 29:56
podcast person. So I listened to works for you to begin

Scott Benner 30:00
Yeah, what I was gonna say is that everything you said to me, I mean, I'm grateful not to have an addictive personality around this. But none of it makes. It doesn't resonate with me at all. I don't want to be around a bunch of people, I don't want to go to a party. And people think about me, like, I don't have any of that if someone came up to me when I was 17 was like, Hey, I have pills. I'd be like, Okay, and then that would be the end of it. You know, I'd be like, well, I guess I could talk to you anymore. And then that would and I was not brought up with any. My mom won't hear this, right. Like, I was not really parentid as a, like, my, my father and mother split, when I was 13. And my mom went off to work full time, and I basically took care of my brothers. And no one was giving me any direction. As a matter of fact, I guess if I sit here and make a list of things I've done that I shouldn't have done. There won't be drugs and alcohol on it for any reason. And the only rules I ever broke were in the pursuit of helping my family like, I don't think I've ever said this on the podcast. But this is an after dark episode. And I think the years have passed by where it won't matter anymore. I have been a daily driver of a car since I was 13 years old. Yeah, because my mom didn't drive and we had to take in a boarder to offset some costs when my father left. And we needed to go to the grocery store. So I taught myself to drive a car so I could take my mom to the grocery store when I was 13. I drove every day picking epic. And it was, you know, that's incredibly illegal. It's not as illegal. Illegal as heroin. But I mean, it's, it's not a thing you would think of a 13 year old doing right. And yet I did not. I don't know. Maybe? I don't know. It's just addiction. Such a crazy thing. Yeah. And I think mothers

Neva 31:53
Yeah, that just goes to show you how different paths people can take depending on you know, what, how their life is shaped and stuff. And like you said, even not having that addictive gene. And yeah, maybe you don't have it. And so it just wasn't, there was no appeal for you in the first place. And

Scott Benner 32:15
it's just fascinating that everything you described to me that you were trying to get to sounded terrible to me. I was like, Oh my god, I'd have to go out and do drugs there then like I had done Oh, my god, it sounds terrible. I'd be around people see.

Neva 32:29
Now to me, that sounds terrible. Like I don't know if maybe like doing heroin made me a recluse and now I don't want to be around people. But that's been water. Sure. That's the

Scott Benner 32:41
next question then is when? A number. Yeah, hey, what's your Yeah, careful. You're on your clothes or your hair. Okay. Oh, okay. But yeah, how do you get from the pills to the heroin.

Neva 32:55
So I watched those pills go from like, $7 for one pill, to $30 a pill. And when you have like a five pill a day habit that gets really, really crazy expensive. You're telling me inflation drove

Scott Benner 33:14
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Neva 37:44
Yeah, um,

so when you're sick, and don't have enough money to feel good doing your five pill a day habit? And somebody says, Oh, well, I have this and it's much cheaper. It'll get you 10 times higher. And while you're sick, you think Well, yeah, give it to me. Oh, yeah. So I did kind of think at first, you know, I was like, Oh, this is heroin. I keep doing that. You know, like, the others was okay. Because it I knew exactly what I was getting where it was coming from how much was in it was from a doctor. So that's not bad. Even though I was crushing it up and snorting. It wasn't bad.

Scott Benner 38:32
He left him upside good.

Neva 38:35
So, um, yeah. So that first time when my boyfriend at the time brought back the heroin and said, Well, I have this so we're sick. Let's just do this. I remember thinking, Oh, well, what is this gonna open up? You know, like, Oh, my gosh, I'm gonna be a real junkie now. Yeah, you know, even though I already was clearly doing everything a junkie does. I just don't know why. I'm using pills. So I'm not a junkie, but I'm using heroin. So I am a junkie.

Scott Benner 39:11
Well, George W. Bush did this apparently to you. I just looked up on Google. He, uh, Oh, really? Whatever, though. Obviously, I'm kidding. But it's, it's interesting as hell that you could see the pills as not as bad because they were right. Somebody's got them legitimately even though they weren't yours. And like,

Neva 39:35
in a way, that's true. Because like with heroin, you don't know exactly what you're getting, or where it's coming from. Right. Whereas with the pills, I mean, it's I know they do make fake pills and stuff, but I'm pretty sure most of the ones I got were legit. You do you know, they're made in a lab. They have to be FDA approved and stuff. So like, in a way they are quote unquote, better, but I mean, you're it's the same thing. Really, it's, it's the same

Scott Benner 40:06
you literally cooking it a spoon and jacking it, how do you use it?

Neva 40:10
Uh, yeah. So at first, so the pills, I went from just taking them orally for probably about a year, maybe not even that much long, maybe like six months, and then I started snorting Um, and I probably snorted them all the way up until you started heroin. And I was living in California at the time. And so what they had out there was black tar heroin. And so I would smoke it on like tin foil. And so I used it like that for a few years. And then that wasn't getting the high anymore. And I knew some people around that, you know, just being in the circle of, like, I didn't, I didn't really have friends at the time. But from going to the dealer, I would see people you know, and we would kind of Converse or whatever, you know, you just know people that are in that circle, kind of, kind of thing. And so I knew some of them, use needles, and I knew that, okay, I'm smoking this stuff, just to get me well and feel normal. But I want to get high. So in order to get high, I'd have to shoot it. And I tried for the longest time to not use the needles, but you know, you get desperate enough you in addiction, you do things you would never thought you would do. And

so yeah, so I started shooting it up.

Scott Benner 41:45
So the draw, I want to try to understand, just make sure I got this right, smoking heroin to stay to keep from being sick. But that didn't make you high anymore.

Neva 41:54
Right, right. Yeah, you get to a point. When you use so much. And for so long, you get to a point where it doesn't make you high anymore. You it's just literally using to make you feel normal.

Scott Benner 42:05
Okay. And I guess it's probably difficult for people to understand that haven't done it. And I I'm gonna put myself in that category. But what is in that moment? This like, how, what does the sickness feel like? Like when you're when you're when you don't? You don't have them anymore? Because it because it makes you do? It makes you ignore things that you would normally Oh, yeah, right. So it may it

Neva 42:32
turns you into a completely different person, like you will do anything to not feel sick. And that just shows you how horrible the feeling it is. It is the worst feeling I've ever felt, although DK was pretty far up there. But um, I would say withdrawal is pretty

Scott Benner 42:55
physical pain.

Neva 42:56
Like it Yeah, so you, it starts with your so like maybe 24 hours after not having it, you, your nose gets runny, your eyes get runny and then your extremities like start to get cold and you start to sweat. So you're like hot, but you're cold at the same time, you get those cold sweats, and then maybe like 72 hours or 48 hours to 72 hours after you haven't had it, then you're you get restless legs and you can't sleep. And then you start vomiting and have diarrhea, you can't keep anything down, it's coming out both ends. You can't stay still your joints ache, your back aches, your bones just ache and your muscles ache. And then you can't sleep on top of it and you're throwing up and you're cold and you're hot and it is just a horrible horrible feeling. And then just to know that in that lasts for like probably about a week until you start feeling better. Um, and but just to know that the only thing that will take all of that horrible pain away is just one little shot or line or whatever, you know, just a little little bit of the drug and it'll just Oh, you'll feel completely fine again, and if

Scott Benner 44:18
you if you stayed medicated, like to a point where you wouldn't feel sick but wouldn't be high would you just be a useless person? Like if you had enough heroin and you had to just keep up like a steady like say you could you somebody could stop you from using more. Would you just be like a zombie? Or could you Yeah, you're spot in there.

Neva 44:43
So and that's what is a really hard thing about my addiction to is I did function for so long like that. And so I want you know, I definitely do say I was a functioning addict. But yeah, it was a zombie like life. Like, there would be times when I would go to work. And I would like not off at work, you know, and it just, and then when you're working to literally all your money is going to that it's like, there's more to life than just that. Yeah. So like, yeah, I think you could do it. But does anybody really want to do that? Like, what kind of life is that? You know,

Scott Benner 45:30
looking back, do you think that the people around you like at your job and stuff? Do you think they knew you were an addict? Like, do you think you thought you were hiding it? But you aren't?

Neva 45:39
Yeah, I think there, because there's no way you know, like, when I'm sitting there, like, not at all, like, there's no way nobody can not see that and think like, Oh, she's just tired. And that's what I would say, you know, like, I'm just tired, but

really, I'm just fooling myself.

Scott Benner 46:00
Well, okay. Give me a second. Let's pray. Okay, all right, here we go. I'm gonna take my sweatshirt off in a second. This never happened. Heating up as we're talking. So your see your parents kind of lead you to trying to get cleaned up, right. And the first try was, what what do they do first? Is it rehab? Or is it how do they

Neva 46:28
first try, I think, was when I was still using the pills. And I think I just tried to go cold turkey. And I think I lasted three days. And then I went back out using and then I think I I don't know if I was like, just a really good liar. Or if my parents just didn't want to like, um,

Scott Benner 47:00
know what to do.

Neva 47:01
Yeah, or, like, kind of

what is the word I'm looking for? Like, um, sweep it under the rug type of thing, like, wanted to not deal with it or something. So. So I would tell them, you know, I'm good. I'm good. I'm not using I'm good. Even though I was. Um, so that would go on, you know, like, Hey, I would tell him Oh, those three days, you know, okay, I'm good. Now. I got over it. Right.

Scott Benner 47:32
What but then I don't want to. I don't want to drag your sister's personal details in it. But at what part of her life is it while you're when they try to get like a she already had her accident by then?

Neva 47:44
Oh, yeah. Yeah. So she, I think her accident was in 2001. And we were still living in Colorado at the time. And I moved out to California with my family when I was 11. And that was in 2003. And she moved out there with us. And she she completely turned her life around after her accident. She started going to school, she got her. She went to school out there. Got her master's now she has a PhD. Um, and so she kind of had her own life off to the side where I was still living with my parents.

Scott Benner 48:30
So the reason I asked it was her accident, like, I don't need real details, but drug related.

Neva 48:37
Yeah, okay. Yeah, and alcohol, alcohol and drug. Okay.

Scott Benner 48:42
I'm trying to imagine your parents. They've got a their oldest girl is paralyzed from a drug related car accident. And now they found out their youngest is using oxy. Do you think they were just like, oh, we're good at this. Like, good. Like, what are we gonna do?

Neva 49:00
No. I I can't even imagine what I have put them through. Um, well, them. Yeah. Not even them just going through my sister nearly dying. But then. Yeah, what? I can't even imagine the stress that I've put them through,

Scott Benner 49:19
right. I just meant like, I'm trying to figure out like when you said you don't know, if they were trying to sweep it under the rug. I imagine they're in their bedroom with the door closed going. What do we do? Like, what do we do? I don't know what to do. I'm, you know, and

Neva 49:31
I yeah, they and they probably were like that, and they probably didn't know what to do. And I didn't know what to do. And so he was so

Scott Benner 49:45
Darden can pick out a new dresser for her room and my wife and I are like in the bedroom going oh my god, how long is this gonna go on? Yeah. So it's hard being like someone's parent and I'm not altered, which it sounds like your dad was and You know, it's just a lot of ending, you still gotta go to work. You don't mean like, try to imagine it's, you know, it's a Thursday, and your daughter comes downstairs, it's like, Hey, you know, I'm on pills, and you're like, I'm exhausted, and I just want to get high and then go to bed and go back to work, since I'm pretending to be your dad now. It's like, I was gonna go to bed and go back to work. And now this is just there's no time for it. And then, so the cold turkey thing. Did anyone try to help you? What was that? Like?

Neva 50:29
Yeah, they, um, they did for sure. And they tried to make me comfortable and all that in. But, you know, we said at the beginning, it was kind of like it was forced on me. You know, it wasn't that I really wanted it. So it was kind of gonna fail Anyway, you know, like, I didn't really want it. Yeah.

Scott Benner 50:52
So you've tried cold turkey you didn't want to you was you've tried Suboxone? Which I actually know what that is. Because this is gonna sound random to you. And something that the words may not mean anything to you. But a comedian that used to work on the Howard Stern Show was an addict, his name was already lying. And I remember

Neva 51:12
I know that is funny because I listened to another podcast that has to do with him.

Scott Benner 51:18
So rd, who, by the way, used to tell the greatest drugs stories on the radio, they were just and I feel bad, having been so thoroughly entertained by them, but he tells one, about being on the set of Mad TV, dressed as a pig in a full costume with like, teats and everything. And literally, like during a break and filming, racing across Los Angeles to get cocaine. And it's and it's I've never heard anyone tell a funnier story in my entire life. Of course, everything had happened to him after that. Very funny. But, but I remember Artie always saying, I'm using Suboxone, I'm okay, I'm using Suboxone, but I think he was I don't think he was I think he was using and telling people he was at different times. So but Suboxone is what tell people what it's supposed to be.

Neva 52:07
So Suboxone is a replacement therapy drunk. Or like, medically assisted treatment, I guess is what they would call it, which methadone also falls into that, which we'll get into that as well. But, um, so Suboxone it's the drug that it actually is is Naloxone, which bloods buprenorphine and Naloxone. And so buprenorphine is the drug that attaches to your opiate receptor. So it blocks it basically blocks the opiate receptor. So it makes your brain think that you're when you take it, it makes your brain think that you've got that you're high on the drugs, but you don't get high. And then if you were to try to use on top of using the Suboxone, you wouldn't get high, you would actually get sick. Um, which is kind of a weird thing with me. When I did start the Suboxone maintenance. I would still kind of use on the site too. And I actually didn't get that sick, like you're supposed to.

Scott Benner 53:13
Fully the system.

Neva 53:14
Yeah. And so I used it, like not in a therapeutical way. I would use it when I didn't have heroin basically, is how I would use this box.

Scott Benner 53:24
Gotcha. So you just you just use to make the sickness go away. But you still Yeah, at high. Right, right. And so and you said you've tried methadone, inpatient, outpatient, like everything what finally worked

Neva 53:39
well, so that kind of brings us into the diabetes? Um, yeah, nearly dying from DK i think is kind of what set it off. So I moved so my, when I moved out to California with my family, I went to high school there and everything started using drugs got into all those issues out there. And then in 2015, we thought okay, maybe you should move out to Cal to Colorado and be with like your because my whole extended family still lives out here like my grandpa aunts and uncles and stuff like that, um, maybe to move out there, you know, changing scenery and everything. Maybe that'll help you you know, since I had tried everything else. And so, I did that until I'm 15. And that didn't work I started using almost immediately after coming here, and I came out here and started living with my grandfather.

And

so then I

basically the same cycle started over again, here, as at the dare I would I say somehow found a dealer I think online somehow I found

Scott Benner 55:04
in dealer using, yeah. Almost anything, right? I'm trying to imagine your grandfather and his golden years, like, wait a minute, what's happening? My wife when I was coming to live with me

Neva 55:19
the whole time, you know, I'm telling everybody Oh, I'm good, I'm clean. I'm good. I'm clean. And I don't know if they believed me. They I guess they said they did. But there was always, you know that in the back of their mind, because everything else had failed and stuff that I maybe wasn't telling the truth. And then the same issues, you know, well, wasn't paying my bills and stuff like that. So then it would be like, Oh, well, are you really good Niva. And so then that's when I started, I had a job out here. I was working with my aunt in an office job. And I worked the front desk. I was like, a receptionist accounting person. And I dealt with the cash box. And so

Scott Benner 56:10
that's not a good fit for you. Right? Yeah. Even I know that.

Neva 56:16
But I'm good. Remember?

Scott Benner 56:20
To for you to for me one. Yeah.

Neva 56:23
And that is exactly what happened. So somebody there went and counted the cashbox, and, of course, it was short. And then they started investigating, and, you know, my ear, knowing my background comes to me and says, You know, I put my neck on the line for you to give you this job. You need to tell me, did you take this money? And so I told her, yes, I took it. And then my mom got involved. And she said, Well, we need to figure something out. Like, this still isn't working. What? What do we need to do to help you. And that's when I tried the inpatient. It was out here that I tried to inpatient for the first time, okay. And so I went to a detox out here. And, um, I was in detox for, I think, like, five days. And then from there.

Scott Benner 57:17
Sorry, I had to take a drink. Oh, you're fine. From there, don't apologize, you're great. I can tell you listen to a lot of podcasts. So you're doing terrific.

Neva 57:25
Thanks. And so from the detox, in order to get out of the detox facility, you had to have something set up for afterward, whether it be session like a appointment to meet with a therapist or a counselor, or to go into an inpatient program, or to go into an outpatient program, you have to have something set up. And so my deal like, they make you set it up while you're in there, you know, because you're in when you're in the detox facility, you're going to groups, you know, every few hours and conversing with the other people that are in there and stuff. And then you have some downtime. And during that downtime, you're supposed to be calling your insurance and setting up this aftercare stuff. And so I set up to go to this inpatient program, which was a two week program. And, of course, my family is telling me Oh, you need more than that you need at least 30 days, 90 days, something like six months, even some people were saying, I don't use that are down, I needed that.

But, you know, of course, I wanted to

get out in start living my life, you know, I didn't want to be stuck in there. And, and there was also a part of me that wanted to still, like, be an adult and take care of my, you know, go to work and I didn't want to be stuck in a rehab facility and somebody taking care of me, you know, like it just there was something in my head that well, I don't want to burden you with having to take care of me. So I guess I went for the two week program thinking I can like I I had it in my mind like, yeah, I can do it. I I think I got my head on straight now. But then, there was still something in my head that didn't want me to give up. I don't know if it was the, the comfort like knowing of that I have that that I can fall back on or there was something still in the back of my mind that kept me wanting to still use like not give it up completely. Like there was you know, they say okay, you never you can't ever use again. Yeah. And to me that just Like,

Scott Benner 1:00:00
you're like nah. Yeah. Like, I'll just start over, like when I was 17.

Neva 1:00:05
Tell us a little bit here and there. Fine.

Scott Benner 1:00:07
So the detox like when your Detox Detox, it doesn't take away. Whatever issue. I mean, do you buy into the idea that people using like hard drugs like this, or who are drinking a ton or are trying that they're covering some sort of emotional pain up?

Neva 1:00:26
I do, and I don't. And so that's still, you know, something that I'm still trying to figure out, you know, like, because like I said, in the beginning, like, I had a great childhood. Things, for the most part have been good in my life. And so what could it have been that I was covering up? But then like, thinking back, you know, okay, I had this boyfriend that I started using with, well, he would also, you know, be verbally abusive to me, and just, you know, stuff like that, that maybe I was trying to medicate, or something

Scott Benner 1:01:06
like, question around that. And I really, I don't know, the first thing about this. But my question around that just from listening to you is that some people like if you weren't being physically restrained, I don't understand that you ever saw him again? And and so I've been treated poorly by like, we've all been treated poorly by somebody at some point. And some people are just like, what is this noise? And they're gone. And some people are like, it's not that bad. He Yeah. So I mean, like that.

Neva 1:01:37
Yeah. And I do I totally know what you mean, because I've thought about this before, too, is, I think I was for a while addicted to him as much as I was the drugs, you know. And so I think he, from the beginning was like, a troubled Boy, you know, and so I had this idea in my mind, well, I can fix him. I can make him happy. And I'm, when he's with me, he's happy. And so

Scott Benner 1:02:05
it makes you feel good. Yeah,

Neva 1:02:06
it just Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:02:08
You're You're the you're his medicine. Not that much longer. Hey, I hope this doesn't seem out of left field. He's your first sexual experience or no? Yes. Okay. That seems important for me to know.

Neva 1:02:21
And and I think, yeah, and since you do say that there was this idea in the back of my head, like, oh, the high school sweetheart thing like, Oh, I have to have the high school sweetheart. Yeah, I have to have this guy that, you know, he was, you know, I lost my virginity to him. So, and I won't ever have to have sex with anybody else. Because he's my high school sweetheart. We're gonna live forever together, you know. And so I think that was definitely in the back of my mind that something I felt strongly about.

Scott Benner 1:02:54
I don't doubt that, you know, I don't doubt the idea of people having a tendency towards addiction. I don't at all, but I just, there's, it's hard not to feel like, you just got unlucky with the first person you bumped into as well. And

Neva 1:03:11
I think that is it, you know, and also unlucky that I had that addict gene, because maybe if I didn't have that added gene, I could have just put it down, you know, right. You could

Scott Benner 1:03:21
have like, like, no lie. If I'm, I don't mean this in a creepy way. But if if me at 17, and you at 17 met each other, we wouldn't have done drugs together. And and if you would have, I would have been like, hey, if you do that, I'm not gonna hang out. And I wonder if that wouldn't have been enough pressure for you to be like, well, I like this guy. And he doesn't want me to do drugs. So like, if that doesn't just sign a shirt. What a different path, you know? Yeah. You'd probably be a raging alcoholic by now. But I'm just saying at least we wouldn't have done pills together. Yes. I'm just saying with your family. I don't think you're getting away from this. Or are you read weigh 1000 pounds or something? You know, like, I think you'd just be like,

Neva 1:03:59
I'd have an addiction somewhere else. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:04:00
I gotta be addicted to something. Damn it. And that does bring up a question. Now that you're and let me ask How long have you been clean?

Neva 1:04:10
Now it has been two years. Just over two years. That's excellent.

Scott Benner 1:04:14
Good for you. Thank you. Yeah. How do you not I'm like what do you do to fill that need to be addict? Like, did you did you overcome it? Or are you just doing it with something like, are you doing like, I'm needlepoint or something like what's going on?

Unknown Speaker 1:04:31
I'm still um, I make scarves

Scott Benner 1:04:33
Scott, would you like a scarf?

Neva 1:04:37
I do have hobbies. I definitely do have a lot of hobbies. Um, but I am still in aftercare. Yeah, so I'm still in the methadone program. So I do.

Unknown Speaker 1:04:51
So I don't

Neva 1:04:53
do you want to jump into the diabetes thing because it does kind of,

Scott Benner 1:04:56
hey, listen to your story way better than me all. I can tell everybody Listening is we're an hour in, and you still haven't heard what I'm going to tell you is the best goddamn diagnosis story you've ever heard in your home. So just hold on, it's coming.

Neva 1:05:10
Okay, so. So after I got out of the, the inpatient, I think I stayed clean, maybe like a week or something and started using again. And then I met a boy, and he did not use and he despised my using. And I liked this boy enough to try to stop, you know, because my, you know, I? Well, so I ended up losing that job that I was taking the cash from, you

Scott Benner 1:05:39
would think,

Neva 1:05:41
yeah, and, um, and so I was jobless for a little while, and I ended up finding another job. And you know, I started this relationship with this boy. And then so that's when I started the methadone program out here. And so methadone, it's a replacement drug also. But if you don't have it, you'll, you'll get sick as well. Okay. And so that's kind of controversial to some people, they think you're just replacing one for the other. But there's a lot to be said about, well, if you're truly working like, you know, like, you don't get high from it. Like, if you're, if you're at a right dose, and you're working on, you know, the other aspects of your life trying to put the pieces back together, and then I'm working on like, coming off of it, like they slowly slip very slowly wean you off of it. Um, I think it can be used therapeutically to where it's not like, Oh, just replacing one for the other. Like, I don't want to be on this for the rest of my life, you know, um, but right now, it's a lot better than sticking a needle in my arm.

Scott Benner 1:07:05
So this methadone is keeping your body from going bonkers, putting you through a pain, all these withdrawal problems. Right? But it's not feeding your addiction, though. Right? Okay, so So what do you do, you still feel the pole or just the methadone keep you from wanting to be high to

Neva 1:07:24
the methadone, it does do a really good job at keeping your brain from not thinking about it. Um, but you know, I, I'm an addict. So and I'm always going to be and so I'm always going to think about it. I'm not going to deny that. But so when I do think about it, you know, I have people I can call. And that's, you know, I've always had a really good support system, and for the most part have been pretty honest with people about my addiction, and how bad it's gotten and stuff. And so I do have people I can turn to in those times of need.

And so

back in 2018,

it was, I had just gotten this new job that I had told you about, I've been going to the methadone program for a couple months, and things were going pretty good. And then I kind of started to lose weight a little bit. But at the same time, I also found out I was pregnant. And I was drinking a lot. I was super thirsty. I was going bathroom a lot. And so the methadone program, they pee test you ever once a month, and I had so I told my boyfriend It was so how I found out I was pregnant was I I my boyfriend has weird superstitions like, oh, if I have a headache, and he has a headache, oh, that means you're pregnant, like weird stuff like that, like so one day. He goes, Oh, my stomach. My stomach's been hurting. I said, Oh, my son is hurting too. And he's like, oh, you're pregnant means you're pregnant. I was like, no, it's me. I'm pregnant. And so he said, well, let's just buy a test and find out and I was like, no. And then he said, well, let's just Just do it. And I was like, okay, because I really didn't think I was pregnant. I was like, Okay, I'll humor you all. Let's just get the test. And I'll take it. And it's going to be negative, so whatever, you know, and so, took the test. And it came back like it almost immediately came back positive. And like, right away, I'm thinking like, Oh my gosh, like, and so I'm, like, start googling, like, how accurate are these things like, it's got to be wrong, it's got to be wrong and so on. Hear, I'm still thinking, you know, like, I'm not pregnant, I can't be pregnant, you know, like, I don't even get a period because I'm on this methadone. So like, I can't, can't be pregnant. And so I, then, about a couple days after I took that test, I started waking up every morning throwing up. And that's when I knew, you know, this is morning sickness. I'm definitely pregnant. And so, about a week after that, I woke up one morning in excruciating pain. And, mind you, I'm still losing weight going to the bathroom constantly super thirsty. All that? Yeah. Um, and so I wake up in excruciating pain. And I'm, I go to the bathroom, and blood, lots of blood just coming out of me. And so I cleaned it up and all that stuff. And then I kind of start thinking, well, this, this is too much blood to be normal, like, Am I having a miscarriage?

Unknown Speaker 1:11:09
And,

Neva 1:11:11
um, so I

kind of toyed through the idea, like, should I go to the doctor, what should I do? I don't know, I was still living with my grandfather at this time. So I thought, well, I don't want to, you know, tell him what's going on. Because I, like I, I didn't want to be pregnant. But I wasn't going to have an abortion, either. So I was, I'm a spiritual person. So like, I prayed to God hoping, you know, asking him, like, I don't want to be pregnant, you know, like, I just wasn't ready for baby at this time in my life, you know, and I've never really wanted to be a parent really, anyway, but I knew that this time, like, just wasn't right. You know, I'm still trying to put the pieces back of my life together and all that from my addiction. And it Yeah, it was just a lot to bring in a baby, you know. Um, and so I, I had hoped that I wasn't pregnant, but I, you know, my spiritual beliefs and all that I just, I couldn't bring myself to get an abortion. So I didn't know what I was going to do. But, um, when I had prayed to God, asking that I wasn't pregnant. I didn't know that that what was gonna happen, you know, have a miscarriage like that. But, you know, thinking back to it, you know, God knew that it wasn't the right time in my life, either. So I guess it happened for the best. Um, but so yeah, so that morning, I ended up passing, you know, the tissue and the blood clots and all that. And then never did go to the doctor. I know, people have told me that I probably should have and all that, but I just, you know, went through it. And my boyfriend, of course, he knew, you know, my reservations of not wanting a kid or anything like that. So when I told him that I had had a miscarriage, I told him because I wanted support, you know, because he was going through this too, because he wants kids and all of that. And so, because he was a part of it. You know, I told him thinking that he would be supportive. But of course, the first thing that he said was, what did you do to our baby? He thought I had got an abortion. But I didn't. Sorry. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:13:54
And so may I suggest something while we take a break here, because this got pretty soon, you should stay away from penises completely. That's my first thought for you. Okay. I don't know if you have any gay tendencies, but I'd follow them. And I would, I would, I would definitely if you get near a penis, I would wrap it up in like saran wrap and then put a condom over top of it, or saran wrap. That's the first thing. Second thing I and second thing. I hope you don't carry any guilt about the miscarriage because, I mean, I understand your faith and everything. But you know, I don't think Yeah, you didn't pick up the phone, make a direct call to God and be like, Hey, could you get rid of this pregnancy for him? Right? No, no problem. I wouldn't i

Neva 1:14:38
don't i think you know, carry a lot of guilt. Um, because looking back, you know, because I didn't know what had caused the miscarriage like now I do. But at the time, I felt I did. Yeah, I did think like, well, what did I do, you know, to? I had to have done something to like, was it the methadone What was it that was malnourished? What what, you know, it was something I did that made this baby die. Um, but that leads us into the next

Scott Benner 1:15:14
segment I was looking through while you were talking a little bit online and you definitely don't want to be on methadone and have a baby on purpose, that's for sure.

Neva 1:15:22
Right? Yeah, exactly. Cuz they, they could go through the withdrawals to when they're born because that methadone supply is completely taken away from them. So yeah, putting a baby see that just Yeah. But you

Scott Benner 1:15:33
haven't you had a miscarriage for a very simple reason, right? You were the Type One Diabetes and you weren't treating it? You had no idea? Right? Yeah. How long? And so scars? Did you figure that out?

Neva 1:15:46
Um, let's see, July, August. Two months, I guess. Um, so the miscarriage happened in July. And then I got diagnosed in September. And this was all in 2018. So like, 2018 was, like, the worst year of my life. Um,

Scott Benner 1:16:07
but that's saying something even. Sorry. I mean, really, that's a, that's really saying something because every year of your life seems like the worst year of your life. And, and, and it's just, it's terrible that it kept building on you. And also, by the way, fills you with perspective, doesn't it? Because because, really, you know, it could be worse, I guess, you know, and I guess I don't even know, I am so sorry that I left. I don't think it's funny. I just think it's, it's crazy. That Yeah, that you could after telling that entire story, we've been talking for an hour and 15 minutes, and you've been doing most of the talking which most people are going to be like, Oh my god, I can't believe Scott Shut up. So I need to tell her story. But I did. Okay. And so it um, that you, it just took me by surprise that you said that was the worst year of my life. I thought my God, like that's really saying something. So at this point, now, you fought through all this addiction. You're still I mean, you're using methadone to help yourself, but this isn't like, you know, for people who don't understand. It's not like you got the flu and it's gone now. Like you're still you know, you're you're fighting with if you didn't have that methadone, do you think you'd use? Yeah, yeah. Okay. And then you have a miscarriage. And I don't mean to tell you who to be with, but that whole thing your belly hurts. My belly hurts thing that makes me really question that guy. And so I'm,

Neva 1:17:41
and I'm still with the guy just so you know, I'm not gonna

Scott Benner 1:17:44
bad mouth and past that. I'm just saying, I want some more clear thinking. Then my belly hurts. Your belly hurts. You must be pregnant. I don't like that.

Neva 1:17:52
Yeah. Well, he, he, like I was saying he wants kids. He wants a family and stuff. So I think just any little excuse, you know, to

Scott Benner 1:18:01
you tell us. Okay, because we're not we're not new. It's not up to making babies yet. Okay. Yeah. Right. You You are, if you ever have a baby, you are going to look back on this moment right now. And the moments that came before this, and realize that you are 100% a different person. Because otherwise, you Listen, I've raised two kids so far. It's really, really hard. It's in sanely difficult. And you want to be at your best while you're doing it. Because the first because why? Because anything can, can knock you off course a little bit. And if you keep getting knocked off course over and over and over again, before you get before you know it, you're so lost. There's no way back. And somebody a child needs somebody to make the hard decisions. And the obvious decisions, when when they're not there. Like just imagine if your mom was in the room the first time you're like, I'm gonna take this pill, she would have been like, No, you're not. And you know what I mean? And, and, and there you go, and you're off on a, you know, a different path. So you need to be the best you possible to be a parent. And you know what I mean? And I feel like you know that I didn't feel like I was, like, scolding you right there. Like, I really feel like you understand that. But you tell this boy to calm down is what

Neva 1:19:28
gives if my boyfriend does listen to this then hey,

Scott Benner 1:19:30
yeah, listen to me, man. You're stopping. Yeah. Okay. It's enough. Seriously, get a hamster Jesus. Right. I mean, practice on a parrot first or something? I don't know. Wow. Okay. I'm so sorry. 2018 was the worst year of your life continue?

Neva 1:19:49
Yeah. So in September, I walk into the methadone clinic to get my dose and they tell me Oh, Your last ua came back positive for alcohol. And I look at them like, what? Like, I don't drink alcoholic? That's that must be a false positive or something. I don't drink. Do you

Scott Benner 1:20:11
think they got your aunt's pee by mistake? I'm just kidding, keep going.

Unknown Speaker 1:20:16
So

Neva 1:20:18
so they their protocol is to give you a breathalyzer before they when you test positive for alcohol, because if you come in drunk, they won't give you your methadone because there's like some negative reactions. Okay, with using both of them, I guess. So, you know, they give me the breathalyzer and I blow into it. And, well, I'm thinking, Okay, well, my, that test had to have been a false positive. So if I haven't drinking anything, so I'm gonna blow zeros, you know, no problem. So I blow into the thing. And, of course, I blow numbers. And I told the nurse there, I was, like, I haven't drinking any alcohol. And they're like, well try it again. So I try again. course I blow numbers again. And so I'm getting really frustrated. I'm like, Whoa, okay. I'm drinking orange juice. I'm drinking water, and I'm drinking coffee. Could any of those do it? And they're like, no, they're like, well, maybe it's the machine. And so the nurse, you know, tries it. She blows into she blows zeros. And then so that happened. They didn't give me my dose for that day. Okay,

Scott Benner 1:21:27
how long? Oh, that's a problem, by the way, not having the method.

Neva 1:21:32
Exactly.

So I come in, so I think, Okay, well, crap, that sucks. But what am I doing? You know, I can't they're, they obviously aren't going to believe me, you know, like, I'm an addict, believe me. Um, so I go through the that 24 hours, and then come back in the next morning. And the same thing, they give me the breathalyzer blow numbers. And I'm thinking like, well, what? I don't I don't understand. And so the nurse looks at me and he goes, Well, are you a diabetic? I said, No. And he goes, Well, we can't get it. I mean, that was it. Like he didn't elaborate on it or anything. And so he was like, well, we can't give you methadone. Sorry. And let me go out my way. And so by this time, I'm getting sick. And so I turned back to the heroin, because I don't want to be sick. And it had only been a couple of months by that point. So I wasn't, like, completely out of the game, or cured or anything like that. So, in fact,

Scott Benner 1:22:42
leave a real quick, that fast, you can get heroin again, just bang, like no big deal. Like, I'll just go get heroin. It's like, Did it take me an hour a day? Or?

Neva 1:22:50
Um, no, because I still had the person's number. So, um, that helps. Um, so yeah, I was just able to call them back up again. Because like I said, it was only a couple months. Like, now if I work to try again, I'm because these dealers that I deal with here, they like change their numbers quite often. So like, if I were to try to even call that number that I had before, I don't even think it would work.

Scott Benner 1:23:18
But it hadn't been long enough that you do any heavy lifting to, and I'm assuming you would have known people to talk to as well.

Neva 1:23:25
Yeah, I could have Yeah, it might it would have taken a bit longer, but I, you know, it's an addict wants something bad enough still, they'll find a way to get I'm

Scott Benner 1:23:34
just saying like, we bought a side table for Arden's room, and it took six weeks to get it. You're like I can have heroin in a week in a day? Yeah. I just really was I, I couldn't imagine. That's why I asked. I was like, oh, how long would it take to like get back in the game, but I guess not

Unknown Speaker 1:23:49
not long at all. So it

Scott Benner 1:23:51
took two days of not having methadone before you were like, I know how to handle this. And then what happens?

Neva 1:23:59
So that was on a Tuesday that I went back to using and this point I was, I didn't tell anybody, you know that I didn't get my methadone or anything. But I was rapidly losing weight at this point. Like my parents weren't, like sagging off of me and going to the bathroom 50 times a day and just drinking crazy amounts of liquid. And so at that point, I remembered what the nurse had said. He said, Do you have diabetes? And I thought, What are the symptoms of diabetes? So I googled the symptoms of diabetes. And of course, I had every single one of them. And so I called my grandmother who was a retired nurse, and I talked to her a little bit about, you know, my symptoms and stuff. And she said, Well, yeah, kind of sounds like you have diabetes. Um, but she didn't elaborate on the, like severity of DK or anything like that. So she said, we'll call your doctor make an appointment. And she didn't even say anything about type one or type two or anything like that. Yeah. She just said, Yeah, it sounds like you have diabetes, go to your doctor. And so that was on Wednesday that I called her and looked at the symptoms and all that. And so I called my doctor when I got off the phone with her and made an appointment with them. And I told them, You know, I think I might have diabetes. And here I am, I think I was 26 at the time, and they're on the phone with me, they can't visually see me or anything. So I'm sure they're probably thinking, type two diabetes, you know, since I'm 26. So they scheduled me an appointment for the following Tuesday to come in to get it checked. And so the next day rolls around, and my grandma sends me a message. And she says, How are you doing today? Also, one of the symptoms that I noticed on the on Google of type one diabetes, or DK was fatigue. And I didn't really have fatigue yet. At that point, I was just had thirstiness, the I'm going to the bathroom and the weight loss. And so you know, she asked me, she said, Well, how are you doing today? And I said, I'm doing okay, my fatigue is a little worse. But, you know, I have this appointment on Tuesday. So I'm good, you know. And so the next day rolls around, I think it was, so it's Friday, now, Friday morning, I get up and I go to work. And I am still maintaining, you know, my withdrawals from by using. And so I get up and I go to work. And by the time I get into work, I start throwing up. And so I go to my boss, and they say, Well, I, you know, just throw up in my trash can. So I'm gonna go home. And so I went home, and I, and I'm living with my grandfather. And so when I get home, I told him, You know, I came home early, because I wasn't feeling good. And he looked at me and he was like, yeah, you don't look very good. And I guess I was really pale. And so I go down to my room, and I tried to lay down. And I kept telling myself, Well, if I can just rest, you know, I'll feel better. And so I couldn't keep any, any food or liquids down at this point. And then my breathing started to get really, really heavy. And I forgot to say when my grandmother had messaged me the day before, when I told her my fatigue was worse, she had told me to go to the ER, at that point. Yeah. But I didn't listen to her because I didn't know the severity. You know, I thought,

Unknown Speaker 1:28:05
like, did this have

Neva 1:28:07
my appointment on Tuesday? I can make it till then, you know, I just need to rest did it it might

Scott Benner 1:28:12
be like sickness, like from the heroin. But no, I

Unknown Speaker 1:28:15
think

Neva 1:28:16
yeah, maybe because I had picked it up again after not using it for so long. I think that maybe I did think that maybe I was nauseous because of that. Because it can make you nauseous if you haven't used for a while,

Scott Benner 1:28:28
right. But you still were worried enough that you were gonna seek medical attention. It wasn't like you were because anything else about the drug use you just hidden. I mean, you hit like, you hit the miscarriage really. So like that you're thinking of going to a doctor's kind of a new thread to this conversation, actually. So I was just wondering if there's any overlapping symptoms, that's all?

Unknown Speaker 1:28:49
Well,

Neva 1:28:51
I was gonna like I had every intention to go to that doctor appointment on Tuesday. I just thought, like, I I'll make it to them. Like, because I keep saying like, I didn't know the severity, you know? I thought, Well, like I said, I thought that Yeah, maybe it could have been from the drug so it'll go away, you know? And then I'll go to my doctor's appointment figure this thing out. Yeah. So Friday night rolls around, and I ran out of drugs. So and I'm feeling really really crappy. And my breathing you know, was heavy. I had that like, the cold it panting you know, I was like, breathing in and out really, really hard. Yeah, happened. Yeah. So I am. I called up my guy met up in you know, we met up we picked a place to meet or whatever. And I went out to get some soup before meeting up with them. And my fatigue at that point was so bad I couldn't even walk 10 feet Without having to like, stop and take a break and catch my breath. And my vision was like blurry, and I should not have been driving. And I snuck out of the house to do this, by the way, because my grandpa thinks I'm sick, you know, if I tell him all, I'm gonna go get some soup. But really, that's not why I'm leaving the house, I gotta leave to go get drugs, you know, like, so I snuck out of the house to do that. And so at this point, my grandma's quite concerned. She can't get ahold of me. And so, my, and I think she called my parents, she had asked, you know, she said, Well, do you want me to tell your parents and I about the, you know, you might have diabetes thing? And I said, No, wait till I go to my appointment and figure out what's going on there. And then I'll tell them, because I felt like that was a big thing that I should be the one to tell them that, you know, okay. And so, um, my grandmother then calls my parents, and I'm out on the street, you know, driving around. And then my parents call my grandpa to ask to check on me. And he goes and checks on me, and I'm not there. And he, you know, tells them all well, she's not here. And nobody could get ahold of me or anything. And so what had happened was, I was driving, I was driving and shouldn't have been driving. I was delirious. I never did make it to meet up with my drug dealer. I had stopped to get gas. Well, no. So what happened was, I was trying to get to the gas station. And I turned down a freeway off ramp, so I was going the wrong direction. And there was cars coming at me and I saw the wrong way sign. I had enough coherence to see that and get turned around safely. But somebody must have seen me and called the cops because when I had finally made it, stop to get gas, I was ambushed by five cop cars. And they opened the door and asked me what's going on. And here I am, like delirious panting, throwing up. Probably, why does it ghost? And I tell them, I think I might have diabetes. And they start asking me questions like, what year it isn't stuff. And I know I got those ants. I answered those questions wrong.

Um, and

those cops

they must have seen in me that I really was not well, because they could have just thought I was drunk and taking me to jail. Yeah, but I credit those cops with saving my life that night, because they called an ambulance right away. They believed me. And they called the ambulance right away. And I got to a hospital. And they told me at the hospital that if I would have waited, if I would have fallen asleep that night at my house, I probably wouldn't have woken up.

Scott Benner 1:33:22
If I have to tell you I'm incredibly impressed that you got out that you thought you had diabetes.

Unknown Speaker 1:33:27
Yeah, you know, seriously, cuz

Scott Benner 1:33:29
you know, you easily could have said, Hey, I'm a heroin addict. That wouldn't have Right. Yeah.

Neva 1:33:36
You're right. And I never thought about that. But yeah,

Scott Benner 1:33:39
you said the right thing, because you could have been like, I'm just looking for soup and smack Can you guys help?

Neva 1:33:44
Yeah. Yeah, who knows what could have came out of my mouth holy.

Scott Benner 1:33:48
I'm sorry that this is an after dark because it's gonna have to be called like after dark, like heroin. That's what I wanted to call it after dark soup and smack just now.

Neva 1:34:00
That's a good, that's a good title.

Scott Benner 1:34:02
I'm getting close to it. Don't worry. I jotted it down on a piece of paper so I don't forget. Wow, that's insane. Okay, hold on. You got I've never not spoken so much on this podcast before in my entire life.

Neva 1:34:17
And I'm not a talkative person. So Oh,

Scott Benner 1:34:20
the art tonight. And it's and it's going your way because you're telling a really interesting and I think, to some people, foreign and to me kind of confounding story. It's just it's it's riveting. The entire we're an hour and a half into this and I don't think we're anywhere close to being done yet. So

Neva 1:34:39
might have to be a two parter.

Scott Benner 1:34:40
You know, it is a cheap way to get downloads, but I don't do that. The other podcasts that have trouble getting downloads, they try to steal a download from you by splitting stuff up. Me I give you more consent, don't you? So Wow. Wow, it was the worst year of your life. You're not wrong about that. I guess we get better at some point or just a story. Like you don't get to the hospital hospitals on fire or something like that, right? Nothing.

Neva 1:35:09
Definitely does get better. Good, good. Um,

so yeah, I got it, I made it to the ER, um, and, you know, I had been an addict for so long my veins were completely shot. So they had a hard time, you know, even getting an IV. I mean, I guess when I got to the hospital, they said my body temperature was 92 degrees. I weighed 90 pounds, and my blood sugar was 935. And I had abscesses on my arms, and my body was going septic.

yeah, if I didn't make it, if those turn of events did not happen the way they did that night, I probably wouldn't be here.

Scott Benner 1:36:03
It's ironic, isn't it? That the need for the drugs got you out of the house? house got you to the cop. Even the soup part, I think is kind of super you're going to get by the way. Chicken Noodle. Yeah. I mean, why not? Right, it seems

Neva 1:36:16
and I made maybe had like two bites of it. Like, I could not really eat it at all.

Scott Benner 1:36:21
Do you even get to have the soup? You know, I have to tell you, you know, by the you know, as we're speaking now, like I poked around the internet a little bit like, I feel like I found a picture of you. You're just like a very adorable, average looking person. And the story like, like, I was like, when I clicked on the photos, like, what is going to happen when this photo comes up, and you're just there you just do just that nice looking person. You know, like, I think that's a you're a ginger. So I mean, yeah. It was a couple points there, I think. Yeah, but but just kidding. By the way, everyone red hair, just calm down. I don't have anything against your red hair. It's just an easy joke.

Neva 1:37:02
That's funny. My a lot of my family calls me ginger. So

Scott Benner 1:37:05
yeah, well, you just tell them come down. ain't doing worse. I don't want to hear from them. Seriously, come on. Like, I'd be like I've been through enough. Leave me alone. Okay. But you said you're there in the hospital. Presenting like a junkie, right? But you're saying I have diabetes? They took you seriously? They checked your blood sugar. Yeah, you're moving along. But this but the lack of drugs is still a problem, or is this the decay? Is the decay so bad? It's overpowering the need for the drugs?

Neva 1:37:43
I think yes, the DK was so bad that it was over powering the need at that point. Well, and I don't believe at that point. I was in like full withdrawal yet. I just knew that I was out of drugs and needed more.

Unknown Speaker 1:38:00
But

Neva 1:38:02
I did tell them, you know that I was on methadone. So they, you know, got in contact with the methadone clinic and within a couple days or the next day, I was able to get my methadone dose. So if I did go through any withdrawal wasn't for very long.

Scott Benner 1:38:21
And the number on the when you tried to blow for for drinking that was ketones or what was the year for figure out what the breathalyzer so

Neva 1:38:31
the Yeah, the I did tell the doctor, you know that that happened and what they what he told me was my sugar and my blood was so high that it was basically fermenting and turning acidic. And yeah, so it was ketones.

Scott Benner 1:38:47
Wow. That's really crazy. I have to applaud you for a second. Let's take a second. Just to stop talking about all this for a minute. The ease in which you're telling this story is It's really impressive. And I don't, I don't know why. Because you just said you're not really a very talkative person. And we're obviously speaking about some things that you haven't really hammered through yet in your life. But you were just telling the story. Like you're like, you're telling the story with the confidence and calm as if I said to you, hey, Niva explained to us all how to paint a bedroom and you'd be like, oh, first you cover the carpet with plastic. And then you have to clean the walls and get paint brush. You're just I'm really impressed with how you're telling the story. Like it's you know, I've

Neva 1:39:30
told it a few times. So I've had practice you mean

Scott Benner 1:39:33
like in group?

Neva 1:39:35
Well, yeah, and like to family and just

Scott Benner 1:39:38
Yeah. Well, I mean, that's not the point though. The point is, is that it that you don't have any self I don't know that you're not embarrassed by it. Even I think is kind of fantastic. You know, you're making me think I'm, I'm way older than you. I can probably double your age basically. And I notice As I was coming out of high school, there were a few girls that I'm thinking of who were just headed in the wrong way, right. And we get separated and we don't see each other anymore. It's you know, some of them are just acquaintances, some of them are friends, you know, people go away, they start jobs, etc. And you don't understand this because you've been in a life where you can contact people easily with cell phones, and you know, online and things like that. But that didn't used to be a thing. And when Facebook got popular, and people, like old people started using it, to like, you know, set up their high school reunions and stuff like that we all sort of, like from our graduating class, and older people are gonna relate to this, we all just, you know, became Facebook friends. And it was interesting to see that every one of those girls that I can think of off the top of my head where attics like I thought they were, but I wasn't sure. And every one of them has a full life. Now. It's very interesting, they all found their way through, which I guess is just lucky. To some degree, but I wanted to tell you that just because I do think you could have kids and have a life and and like the way you want to. I'm thinking of this one girl in particular. She was just adorable when we were in high school and, and nice, but she just like, like you described like, she was just it was always looking for trouble. It felt like and always with guys that you were just like, oh, Why him? You know? And like, if you were friends, you'd pull her aside and go, I feel like you could do better than this. And and but now I can picture in my head a 50 year old woman who shares very openly about what she went through. And I don't know, it just feels like you're much younger than you think you are, I guess is what I want to tell you. Yeah, there's a lot ahead of you.

Neva 1:41:57
Yeah. And I've always kind of thought of myself as like an old soul. But also like my drug addiction has kind of left me at like a perpetual like 17 for

Scott Benner 1:42:12
10 years, you know, so not exactly chasing a stable job and health insurance and

Neva 1:42:17
yeah,

savings and all that. Yeah, having my own place. All that. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:42:22
Yeah, I have to admit it both surprised me and didn't surprise me when you said my mom just came in. I was like,

Neva 1:42:28
yeah. And that's funny. You bring that up, because she's actually here visiting. So she's staying with us here. So she just happens to be visiting at

Scott Benner 1:42:36
your place. Okay, that's it. I was like, 28. I'm like, honey, yeah, pulled together a little bit. Still. And by the way, everyone listening who's 28 or older loses their parents. I'm not judging you just keep going. Let it happen. Just let it out.

Neva 1:42:49
You never know what's going on in their life.

Scott Benner 1:42:52
Listen, everybody needs help, you know? Yeah, at one point or another. So how do you usually I asked this question like 20 minutes in but we'll do it now. Instead, how do you manage your type one diabetes, how's it going? and How the hell did you find this podcast?

Neva 1:43:07
Um, I am using an ami pod right now. And I'm I've right now I'm just using a glucometer. Because I'm kind of lazy with changing my CGM. I've tried. I've tried all the CGM because of insurance and stuff. I couldn't afford the Dexcom. I did try it was able to use it for a couple months, but it was too expensive. So then I went to the Libra is using that for a while. And then my doctor, I was kind of having a lot of lows overnight and stuff. And so he he suggested the Medtronic CGM, The Guardian, okay. And so I started using that one. And it was way more accurate than the Libra was I noticed for me, okay, but the process of having to put on the Guardian, there's like 8000 steps to it. So I get when it's time to change that out. I just get really lazy and don't

Scott Benner 1:44:13
you lift it out. You listen so much, as you said that did you think wow, Medtronic really does take a lot of hits on this

Unknown Speaker 1:44:19
puck.

Neva 1:44:21
Yeah, I want

my like my doctor, I kind of feel like he's in Medtronic pocket a little bit because even from the beginning, he was like pushing the Medtronic pump on me and stuff. So, but when I told him I want it on the pod from listening to this podcast, he went with that. And so I found your podcast because after I got out of the hospital, I was in a hospital for about six days.

Unknown Speaker 1:44:50
And

Neva 1:44:52
I joined Facebook groups pretty much right away. And I think, no, that's not how I found it. I think I typed Diabetes on the podcast app. Okay, and yours popped up and I started listening and basically got caught up. I'm pretty much in

Scott Benner 1:45:13
here what I have to say not that this is a this is a ham fisted place to say this, but when I tell people like leave good ratings and reviews because it helps in searches. This is exactly what I'm talking about.

Neva 1:45:24
And I recommended your podcast to a lot of people because it I learned so much more from your podcast and the Facebook groups just by people sharing their experiences right then I have ever had from my doctors.

Scott Benner 1:45:41
I'm really glad that it's helpful to seriously I it makes me happy. Yeah, I think I think I can officially say now that I'm the official diabetes podcast of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and attics, go with this, like, seriously, cuz I, I'm gonna put that on the sign outside of my building, I put that on the sign. I really I'm really overwhelmed. Honestly, as you're talking that, that in a story that was that long, that seemed that it lacked in a number of places, people, you know, helping you that the first thing that really helped you was this, but I don't I don't think it's a silly podcast. But if you know, I'm an older person to tell people I have a podcast is weird. You know what I mean? Like when people like what are you doing? I'm like, Oh, you know, I podcast. I'm gonna stay at home dad for like, 20 years, and I have this pretty popular podcast and like, Oh, do you? Do it's really popular? Like, is it like, it is like, are you guys making fun of me? And what's it about? And I'm like, it's about type one diabetes. They're like, fine. Just anyway, I have to have that conversation a lot in my life, in case you're wondering. It's not like saying, Oh, yeah, I'm a manager over at the place. You know, it's a it's a little weird. But to hear that it helps you like so how do you do with your blood sugar's like, Where's your agency right now.

Neva 1:47:13
I'm supposed to go in, in the beginning of November to get it checked again. But my last one was 6.0, which I was pretty happy with. I did not expect it to be that low. But I try to keep a pretty tight range. Just, you know, from what I've learned from you, and other people and stuff that, you know, I don't feel good when my blood sugars are high, and it's not good for my health for them to be high. So

just to try to do what I can to keep them low.

And I don't like I don't

limit myself, like I don't say, Oh, I can't eat that because I'm a diabetic, because I don't want to create like a weird relationship with food. You know, like, I don't want diabetes to like, create an eating disorder or anything for me.

Unknown Speaker 1:48:05
So I do,

Scott Benner 1:48:07
you do not need another problem, right? Seriously, no? Well, I want to ask you, Oh, um, fear, did you have any fear of insulin?

Neva 1:48:21
No. And

that's another another thing. Like,

the irony doesn't surpass me, I know that, you know, like, I have to completely refocus my view of, like, needles, you know, like, cuz, before I associated needles, like, I'm not using needles, like I'm not doing MDI. But I still use a regular needle to fill my pump and stuff. So I still have to use like, needles are a part of pretty much my everyday life force, just as they were before when I was an addict. Yeah. So I had to really like, because I before I would associate needles with using, and so for a long time, they were a trigger for me, like when I was in that detox that we were talking about earlier, behind the counter was a sharps container. And for whatever reason that sharps container was like the biggest trigger for me. And so coming out of the hospital, I really had to refocus my head to like, I'm going to be using like sharps containers and needles and all this. It's just going to be a part of my life. Like, it's either that or die. So just kind of I just kind of dove head in and

tried to make the best of it.

Scott Benner 1:49:55
It sounds like you're doing a really good job, actually. Do you feel like you're doing well right now?

Neva 1:50:00
Do Yeah, I, I definitely do.

Because I,

I mean, every once in a while I'll have like a fluke where I'll eat something and don't know why. But I'm like 270 or 300, you know, but I can count like on one hand the amount of times I've been 300 since I've been diagnosed. So I feel like that's pretty good.

I think in just anything to try to keep me

from going into DK again, because that was pretty pretty far up there with one of the worst feelings I've ever had. So

Scott Benner 1:50:39
it's kind of astonishing actually like to hear all the things that your body has been through and then distill here that DK was terrible. Have you heard the episode? with Jonathan, about it's a it's an episode about

Unknown Speaker 1:50:55
is that the bipolar? Yeah, yeah.

Neva 1:50:57
I actually just got done listening to that one, like this morning. And so that's as far up as I am. From there on is what I have to get caught up.

Scott Benner 1:51:06
Wow. Yeah, you made me think of him. Because the way he described me and in TK, I think he I've said this already a couple of times that stuck with me, but he said like, he felt like the devil was like ripping apart from the inside out. Like Yeah, damn.

Neva 1:51:19
So does feel like that.

Scott Benner 1:51:21
Yeah, I just I mean, to have withdrawal from something as strong as an as an opiate like that. And then you know, heroin and, and to still feel like DK is worse, I think is should be telling to people what it's like,

Unknown Speaker 1:51:35
Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:51:36
for sure. And what your body's going through. While it's happening. Right now, importantly,

Neva 1:51:43
yeah, and I especially like the like analogy that you've made about the sugar molecule, you know, like, when you look at like a sugar cube or a grain of sugar. It's all like sharpened stuff, and the sugar molecules the same way. And so when there's that much sugar is going through your veins, it's literally like ripping apart your inside. So it literally feels like that, because that's literally what's happening.

Scott Benner 1:52:06
You're being scraped very slowly. And I just I said that that time because I don't think people understand when they're like, Oh, you know, I have a bleed my I like what that it's from my diabetes, what they mean, when they're saying that, but you know, a little vessel just gets worn out. And, you know, the worst part about it is some of those vessels as they get worn out, your body tries to Jenny explained at one time how it tries to patch it, and then that's how arteries close off. So when you when you later are like, Oh, he had a heart attack from his diabetes, what what actually happened was that the artery became narrower and narrower, because it kept repairing itself and narrowing. And that's the kind of stuff I don't think anybody tells you, when they tell you you have diabetes. So yeah, it's really worth knowing. So Alright, I won't keep you much longer as I have you. 15 minutes already passed by soldier? I'm sorry, if I'm holding you up from something

Neva 1:52:58
Oh, no, no, nothing at all?

Scott Benner 1:53:02
What are steps forward for you? Like what is like, I'm assuming you're a very day by day person with some bigger long range plans? Like how do you? How do you stay in the right frame of mind? And what are the steps you have to take to do it? And do you have any advice for people who might be going through what you are,

Neva 1:53:19
I'm taking it day by day definitely is a big part of it. But I, for me, um, some of my goals, you know, are to eventually move out with my boyfriend, you know, move out from living with my grandfather, and, you know, buying a house together and starting a family getting off methadone. But the addiction piece is something that I will have to work on for the rest of my life. So

I think

in order to not

get ahead of myself, I have to just work on doing what I can today to stop like, to not use again, you know, and so for me that's going to work taking, you know, care of my debts and stuff, so that I can eventually slowly build my credit score back up so that I can save up money and move out.

And then

just kind of take it slowly, like baby steps, you know, and

Scott Benner 1:54:36
what about on the physical side? Like, what, what's the, like, how do you stop using methadone at some point?

Neva 1:54:43
They slow very slowly lean wean you off. It's like a milligram a week they'll so like, say you're at like 50 milligrams your dose every day is 50 milligrams. And then you'll finally it's up to you whenever you want to stop Are start to come down. So when you finally say, Okay, I think I'm at a good point in my life to start coming down. They'll say, okay, so we'll start weaning you off. You know, you'll talk to your counselor, because they do make you go to monthly counseling sessions, and they work with you, you know about relapse prevention and stuff like that. And so they'll, when you say you're ready, they'll you know, give their input, whether they agree or not, or whatever. And then they'll start, then they'll say, Okay, we'll bring you down to 4049 milligrams this week. And so for that week, you'll do 49 milligrams every day. And then the next week, you'll go down to 48 milligrams. And so that's like how slowly you'll so that your body will, it'll be slow enough to where your body doesn't feel those big jumps. So not having so much in body,

Scott Benner 1:55:56
I see the idea. Once a month therapy, like, if you were my kid, I'd be like, you gotta go more often than that. Yeah. You have health insurance?

Neva 1:56:06
I do. Yeah. And I am, when I did, when I was starting with the methadone program, I did go once every two weeks. So I did go more often, because I did feel I needed that.

Unknown Speaker 1:56:20
And

Neva 1:56:22
it's, they have helped me with, you know, finding other coping mechanisms, you know, more healthy coping mechanisms, and I'm putting myself first was a big one, you know, like, not in like, a selfish addict way, but like, just caring for yourself, you know, like,

Unknown Speaker 1:56:43
working that way. I that's back to what

Scott Benner 1:56:45
I was saying at the beginning. Like, like, if you had that piece. Back when you were 17. I think you would have felt like, this guy's weird. This isn't? Yeah, you know? Sure. Yeah. And when you want to have that moving forward, what are some of the coping mechanisms that they give you?

Neva 1:57:03
I'm kind of taking, like, so when you get a thought of using a big one for me was they had me fill out this card. So whenever, and it has like, eight different things on it, about what to do when you get a thought of using and like, one of them is like, let the thought past like, Don't dwell on it. Don't keep thinking about it, like, try to think about something else. Or say the Serenity Prayer. call somebody.

You know, you could

pick up like, a, I mean, for me, you know, wouldn't be very feasible, but like a piece of candy or something to like, kind of trigger that piece in your brain that's like, Oh, you know, like, this was nice. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:57:52
Sugar? Yeah. Well, he, you do, I'm thinking of somebody specific. And I can't obviously, I wouldn't say names, but I do know, somebody who was a did was a drug seeker like you, but they, they, you know, stuck with emergency rooms to get, you know, pharmacy level narcotics the whole time. And when they finally, when, you know, when the system finally caught up to this person, it was like, Look, we all know what you're doing, we're gonna call the cops, if you ever come back here again, they went right to food after that. And it's just such a shame because this person that I'm thinking of went from an average size person to a person who's just, you know, unhealthily, and significantly overweight, but the eating really does I mean, from an outsider and a layman, but it just seems like they just traded one addiction for the other one. Yeah, you know, it's terrible. Like it just it really, I'm so sorry for you that that any of this happened, but I'm really amazed at how well you're, you're getting through it because it's just there were so many opportunities for you to not to not get to this place and you still did you know, it's really kind of cool.

Neva 1:59:06
And that's one thing that I'm grateful for is that I never have overdosed. And I don't know how I never have but I haven't had to be narkanda or anything like that. So I definitely have some kind of guardian angel looking over me and I'm extremely grateful for that.

Scott Benner 1:59:25
Do you ever laugh to yourself when you go to get more insulin from the farmers to you always, like, Are you ever like I'm such a square now?

Unknown Speaker 1:59:34
No,

Neva 1:59:36
but it is kind of weird because like there was one time when I went to pharmacy to get needles for using and I because out in California you could go to like a Walgreens you know, pick up needles and they would sell you a bag without any questions or anything. And so I walked into King soopers here in Colorado, and I had a wanted to buy a bag of syringes? And they said, Oh, well do. Do you buy your insulin here? I said no. And they're like, Oh, well, we need you. Like if Where do you buy your insulin or something like that, and I made up something and they're like, Oh, well, you can have them call. Like I said, Walgreens or something. They're like, Oh, you can have them, call us and we can verify you know that you get your insulin from them, and we'll give you this syringes. And

Unknown Speaker 2:00:27
so just, they

Scott Benner 2:00:31
Damn it. And so

Neva 2:00:32
now, you know, I'm like, Oh, yeah, I get my insulin from there.

Scott Benner 2:00:35
It's such a, it's such a, like, like I was saying earlier, like, your whole life revolves around it, because now you have the heroin, but you don't have the needles. And now that's and and everything about society is set up to block you from doing the heroin. And and so you're just like, it must have just been like a scavenger hunt all day.

Neva 2:00:54
And it's, it's exhausting. And that, you know, just your whole life kind of revolving around that is extremely exhausting.

Scott Benner 2:01:02
Are you happy? Yes. Have you been happy? Were you happy in the past using? Or is this a new thing for you?

Unknown Speaker 2:01:11
I was happy,

Neva 2:01:12
but obviously not as happy as I could be, you know, like I, I've always had, like, for a long time had the feeling of wanting to stop. Like, you know, of course, in the beginning, I didn't want to stop. But then it got to a point where it was so bad to where I did, but I couldn't no matter what I did, I just couldn't. So it was like, two different pieces, you know, pulling me in two different directions. Like, yeah, I want to stop. But something doesn't want me to stop too. So yeah, that was

Scott Benner 2:01:44
always a constant, physical piece of the addiction. You can't overwhelm that. Just with Yeah, but you just wanting to, Hey, did you ever try to hurt yourself while you were using? No, no. So it never got to the point where you're just like, I have to stop living. I can't keep doing this, which

Neva 2:02:02
there were times when I thought it like, we're like, I would think oh, I want I want this bag to be the one that'll you know, overdose me like, there were times when I did think that. Yeah. But I don't think I would ever. I don't think I didn't want to live that bad enough to where I would like, try that. You know.

Scott Benner 2:02:27
You just think I

Neva 2:02:28
still had happy moments in my life that were worth something.

Scott Benner 2:02:31
Gotcha. You just said you just said a bag. And I'm like, Ah, there's a barrier for entry to be right there. I feel bad. Every time I throw a sandwich baggie away. I would just be like, Oh, I can't keep doing this to the environment. I'm sure I wouldn't be thinking that if I got to that point. But yeah, it really does. Like

Neva 2:02:51
there's small small bags. Well, then

Scott Benner 2:02:53
that makes me feel a little that I can try. That's fine. Me if they're tiny bags, just a little snack size once you mean,

Neva 2:02:59
you know, like even small, even

Scott Benner 2:03:00
smaller than that. Oh, well, that. Yeah, I can do it like quarter size. Gotcha. I know nothing of what we're talking about. You know, you've listened you listen. So you're like, I don't drink? I've never, I have nothing against the idea of smoking weed. I've just never done it. There's just no part of me that.

Neva 2:03:20
That doesn't. So how would you know,

Scott Benner 2:03:22
I have no concept of any of this, which is why I'm so like, incredibly interested about it. And I just I can't thank you enough for doing this. It really was. I want to tell you it was brave. But you just seem kind of so ballsy about it. Maybe it wasn't that brave. I don't know.

Neva 2:03:40
Thanks. There's a couple of parts where it got a little emotionally but yeah, yeah. Well, thanks for having me on the show.

Scott Benner 2:03:48
I really appreciate that. I have to tell you the one thing that I really worry about, like in every one at first of all, I have to tell you, the first time I was like, I'm gonna do a drinking episode. I'm gonna call it after dark. I didn't think all this was going to happen just so everyone was like at this point now. I mean,

Neva 2:04:04
what was a good thing? I think, you know, it's stuff that needs to be talked about. No, it's,

Scott Benner 2:04:08
it's amazing. And I'm super happy I'm doing I'm just telling you like I am in a space I did not expect to be in. It just didn't, I didn't know where it would go. But where it's gone. I mean, to be serious. Where it's gone is that we're telling people stories that do not get told around diabetes. And I came to the realization like so I'll say this too, because this will this will probably come out after the ones we're talking about. But I'm starting to realize that every person that walks the earth, like every idea, like kind of person, religion, race, you know, job, a person that holds a certain job in every configuration that people can come in. Some of those people have diabetes, and like I'm getting ready this week to you Interview a world class cellist who has diabetes. And I realized if she didn't have type one, she wouldn't be coming on the show. But I don't feel like I'm interviewing a type one. I feel like I'm interviewing a cellist. Yeah. And I didn't feel like I was in like talking to a type one tonight, I feel like I'm talking to a person who has struggled with addiction, and is getting through it and has a really great story. And you happen to have type one diabetes, right, everybody? Like I said, there's, there's countless configurations of human beings on the planet, and at least one of them has type one somewhere. So I think there are a lot of stories to share. And none of them are so. And none of them are as uncommon as you would think. You know, what I mean? Like, when, when the person that came on and talked about, you know, being bipolar came on and the person came on talked about cutting? I was I thought to myself, like, is anyone going to be interested in this? Like, that was my first thought like, this doesn't happen to people like that frequently, but it does. All of it does, you know, what's happening to you? Like, you're not some random person. This happened to I don't know, the statistics, but this is a huge issue. Yeah, you know, is happens to a lot of people, not, not all of them have, you know, stories that go as well as yours. Did. You ever think about that? Like, Oh, yeah, yeah. Just feel lucky, I guess.

Neva 2:06:34
Yes. Extremely. And I think a lot, you know, I've mentioned about my, the support that I've had, I think that plays a big, big part in it, because had I not had the support that I have, and, um, you know, who knows where I would be, you know, I'd probably be on the streets somewhere dead, you know. So it, if anybody is going through the same thing? I think it starts there is having the support. Well, look at this 20 in 2018 data showed,

Scott Benner 2:07:07
sorry, data. Now all those data people that bugged me by email, or in my head, can I just say data? Ne Leave me alone. 2018? Well, data shows that every day 128 people in the United States die after overdosing on an opioid. that's a that's a pretty big number. Yeah,

Neva 2:07:29
that's to think that I have lived.

I don't even know how many days that computes to the last 10 years. It made me one out overdosing at all this miracle

Scott Benner 2:07:42
in that in a decade of using How many times have did you use every day?

Unknown Speaker 2:07:47
Yes. Wow.

Scott Benner 2:07:48
That's insane. It really is. I'm not judging you. It's just it's, it's the fries. My mind. It really does. Mm hmm. Well, listen, I was gonna do this after you got off, but we're gonna say goodbye anyway. So hold on for a second, the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration is a government agency, you can find it at sa MH sa.gov. Or you can call them at 1-800-662-4357. And it translates to one 806 six to help. It the helpline is free, confidential, 24, seven, 365 days a year. treatment referral and Information Services comes in English and Spanish for individuals and families facing mental and or substance abuse disorders. So if you're, if you're vibing, with what's being said here, and you'd like to help yourself, I think that's probably a pretty great place to start. And I've learned that you can just type in methadone clinic near me into Google, and it will give you on so try to help yourself if you can, especially if you're having a moment of clarity right now. And you're listening, like take advantage of that moment of clarity and run towards somebody that can help you right.

Unknown Speaker 2:08:57
Yeah, yeah, for

Scott Benner 2:08:58
sure. Is there? It doesn't matter really just somebody like tell somebody? Right?

Neva 2:09:04
Yeah. And don't hold like reservations. Like if people are telling you, oh, methadone doesn't mean you're clean. Or, you know, for the longest time, my family kept saying like, oh, when are you going to get off that stuff when you're going to get off that stuff? And I had reservations against it in the beginning and stuff, and then they finally realized how it was helping me. So as long as it's helping you stop using, then that's enough to help you get to where you need to be in between

Scott Benner 2:09:33
you're saying anything that isn't those pills or heroin is better,

Unknown Speaker 2:09:37
right? That? Yep, yes.

Scott Benner 2:09:39
Well, that sounds hard to disagree with. Okay. If I really appreciate doing this, I believe this is going to officially be the longest podcast I've ever done. I kind of feel like we can both go pee and come back and keep going if we have been thinking about that. But I really want to pay just so you know. And and I think I think there's nothing left to say really at the moment other than I appreciate this. I wish you a ton of success. I hope you keep in touch. You're very welcome.

I want to take this moment to thank Niva for her bravery and honesty, and a moment to remember all the people who have come on and told tough stories in the in the after dark episodes just can't be easy. And it's incredibly helpful. I hear from so many of you behind the scenes were helped by these very episodes. So for everyone who's willing to step up, everyone appreciates it, especially me. Thanks so much to touched by type one, the Omni pod tubeless insulin pump, and the dexcom g six continuous glucose monitor for sponsoring this episode of the Juicebox Podcast.

You can find out more about the dexcom@dexcom.com Ford slash juice box. Get that free, no obligation pod experience kit at my on the pod.com Ford slash juice box and of course, touched by type one.org or find them on Facebook or Instagram. Hey, you can follow this podcast on Instagram at Juicebox Podcast. You can find the blog at Juicebox podcast.com. And on Facebook we are bold with insulin that's the public group and Juicebox Podcast Type One Diabetes is the private group which I think is up to 7000 of you now in they're all talking about management of insolence. Very cool. One of the nicest places I've ever seen in Facebook and that is no over exaggeration.

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