#1322 After Dark: Borderline

October 2, 2024Scott Benner

"Phoebe", a 50-year-old mother of five, discusses her family's experiences with type 1 diabetes and her husband's mental health issues.

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Scott Benner 0:00
Welcome back, my friends, to the diabetes show that never ends.

We're back today with an after dark episode. Gonna be speaking with a person we're calling Phoebe. She is 50 years old, has five children, two of them have type one diabetes. Her 12 year old daughter was diagnosed at six, her other daughter at eight. We're going to talk about diabetes, some problems she's having within her family structure, and so much more. Nothing you hear on the juicebox podcast should be considered advice medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. If you're newly diagnosed, check out the bold beginnings series. Find it at juicebox podcast.com, up in the menu in the feature tab of the private Facebook group, or go into the audio app you're listening in right now and search for juicebox podcast. Bold beginnings, juicebox is one word. Juicebox podcast, bold beginnings. This series is perfect for newly diagnosed people. Don't forget to save 40% off of your entire order@cozyearth.com All you have to do is use the offer code juicebox at checkout. That's juicebox at checkout to save 40 percent@cozyearth.com you OmniPod.

Your kids mean everything to you, and you do anything for them, especially if they're at risk. So when it comes to type one diabetes screen, it like you mean it, because if even just one person in your family has type one, your child is up to 15 times more likely to get it, but just one blood test can help you spot it early, so don't wait. Talk to your doctor about screening tap now or visit screenfortypeone.com to get more info and screen it like you mean it. This episode of The juicebox podcast is sponsored by the contour next gen blood glucose meter. Learn more and get started today at contour. Next.com/juicebox okay, I call you Phoebes. Or do you like Phoebe better?

Unknown Speaker 2:14
I like Phoebe's better.

Scott Benner 2:16
All right, Phoebe's, let's do it. You are just about 50 years old. You have two kids with type one diabetes. Let's get their ages rough, ages like teens, younger. Where are they at?

"Pheobe" 2:27
Of the diabetic children? Yeah, all of them. Now

Scott Benner 2:31
worry about those other kids. Let's talk about the kids with diabetes. Oh,

Speaker 1 2:35
the oldest one is 12, a girl since 2018

Scott Benner 2:40
2018, so diagnosed around nine years old. And what? No,

Speaker 1 2:43
no, six, 2018 she was diagnosed, wait,

Scott Benner 2:49
oh, my god, I forgot what year it was. Excuse me, that's 2024 pretty embarrassing. I was like, Oh, my time is slipping away. I'm sorry, at six years old, and then the other,

Speaker 1 2:59
the other is now eight, and she was diagnosed 2021 at age five, right? Right, before she turned five, right? I believe. And

Scott Benner 3:09
you have other children. Are they older or younger, or mixed?

Speaker 1 3:13
They are older. We have three teenagers, and our oldest, she's 19. She is diagnosed in with celiac in 2020 right before the covid shutdown, right within about two weeks of the covid shutdowns,

Scott Benner 3:27
what about other autoimmune in your family? Anything else besides the celiac?

Speaker 1 3:31
Well, we did not figure this out until our first diagnosis. I have a cousin with type one. I have two cousins was Hashimotos, and then on my husband's side, they didn't even know there's type one. And his mom didn't know that her dad had type one, and her sister has type one. She's still living but they were both diagnosed in their late like 30s and 40s. No kidding.

Scott Benner 3:57
Well, that's quite a pile, actually.

Speaker 1 4:01
It is yeah, and we I knew I had a cousin that had type one diabetes, but no one explained to me that our kids were at risk for it as just clueless. No idea took you by surprise. Yes, her diagnosis did. It was summer, very hot, humid, summer, and she just seemed sleepy and she didn't want to play so much, which was unusual. And we had just done a well visit about six weeks before, you know, everything showed fine at the well visit, and they actually said she needs to lose a few pounds. They told me, you know, she's six years old, and after a few weeks, I thought, wow, she's starting to lose some weight. That was easy. Yeah, he looks thinner. And then I was starting to put it together. I even made a Facebook post about our kids, because our son that's two years older than her, he was always hungry, wanting to eat, and I was kind of joking in the post, because. You got hungry and thirsty, because she's always thirsty. She's thirsty all the time. And it still did not click, until one evening, she drank a whole bottle of water. It was a 16 ounce bottle of water, and she looked at me and she said, Mom, I'm still thirsty. And then it was before bedtime, but you know how you start. I went on one of my mom groups. I said, I've got a kid, she's kind of tired, she's been thirsty, and everyone said, you have to get her to the emergency room right now. It's type one diabetes, and I we've got five kids, so I don't like to go into the hospital unless I have to. So my husband had chronic migraines, so we spent a lot of time in emergency rooms for all of that. So I hate, absolutely hate, but you have to be dying for me to take you to the hospital. So the pediatrician, I had a late afternoon appointment, and I packed up the car thinking we're going to go the beach after this appointment, because it's not going to be anything. I'm just being paranoid. So we see the pediatrician, they did a finger stick, and we knew nothing about diabetes. And the nurse that came in, she's, she said, it's 500 like, oh, okay,

Scott Benner 6:11
I didn't know what that meant. I gotta go. We're going to the beach, see, yeah,

Speaker 1 6:15
yes. And she said, Let me do another one. Like, okay. And she did another one, and in the five hundreds, and it, you know, it still did not occur to me. I had no idea what was going on. So the pediatrician, he comes in, he said, Are you here today? Because you thought maybe your daughter could have type one diabetes? And I said, Well, I don't think she really has it, but I just thought we better be safe and rule it. Yeah,

Scott Benner 6:38
these people on Facebook told me. And I was like, Oh, whatever. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 6:42
Like, they're just overly concerned, because we would never have this in our family. And he looks at me, he said, You need to get her in the car right now, and you're going to the hospital, and you're not going to stop and you're not going to let her fall asleep in the car. And I said, Well, we were going to go to the beach and get something to eat. He says, No, you're not going to the beach, you're not stopping for food, you're going directly to the emergency room. I'm calling you get her there as soon as possible. So that's when I started to freak out. Because yeah, people me, my kid had diabetes, and my oldest kid, she had went in with me and her daughter for the appointment. Others, they're waiting out in the car, you know, for us to go to the beach, and I come in the car, all crying, and, you know, don't let her fall asleep. And she didn't have any idea what was going on. My oldest daughter did. She knew she was very calm. She's very level. She's not like me. She was very calm. But we got to the hospital, and this little girl of ours, she always hated needles. She was afraid of needles and everything. Up until that day we got her in the hospital, she did not cry at all, not for any of the IVs, the finger sticks, the shots, nothing. She just took it. It was amazing. She I think she knew she had been sick, because later I've talked to her about it, and she said she remembers laying on the floor being tingly and not feeling well, but she didn't know how to tell she. She didn't know what it was, yeah,

Scott Benner 8:17
how to communicate all that, right? Wow. She's probably just happy to feel better. Needles, needles or not, from the very beginning, your kids mean everything to you. That means you do anything for them, especially if they're at risk. So when it comes to type one diabetes screen, it like you mean it now up to 90% of type one diagnosis have no family history, but if you have a family history, you are up to 15 times more likely to develop type one. Screen it like you mean it, because type one diabetes can develop at any age, and once you get results, you can get prepared for your child's future. So screen it like you mean it type one starts long before there are symptoms, but one blood test could help you spot it early, before they need insulin, and could lower the risk of serious complications like diabetic ketoacidosis or DKA. Talk to your doctor about how to screen for type one diabetes, because the more you know, the more you can do. So don't wait, tap now or visit screened for type one.com to learn more. Again, that's screened for type one.com and screen it like you mean it the contour next gen blood glucose meter is sponsoring this episode of The juicebox podcast, and it's entirely possible that it is less expensive in cash than you're paying right now for your meter through your insurance company. That's right. If you go to my link, contour, next.com/juicebox, you're going to find links to Walmart, Amazon, Walgreens, CVS, Rite, aid, Kroger. And Meyer, you could be paying more right now through your insurance for your test strips and meter than you would pay through my link for the contour next gen and contour next test strips in cash. What am I saying? My link may be cheaper out of your pocket than you're paying right now, even with your insurance, and I don't know what meter you have right now, I can't say that, but what I can say for sure is that the contour next gen meter is accurate. It is reliable, and it is the meter that we've been using for years. Contour next.com/juice box. And if you already have a contour meter and you're buying test strips, doing so through the juicebox podcast link will help to support the show,

Speaker 1 10:45
yeah, because someone is actually telling her what is going on. But she did get very sick by the time they were going to put her in the ICU, because she started vomiting, and they gave her the anti nausea medication, and she was vomiting for a long time, but that we've, you know, we got under control eventually. But where we live, there is, is not an endocrinologist at the hospital. Hasn't been since the we've had to go the hospital for some other things. So we did not have see an endocrinologist at all for hospital stay. Yeah, they sent us a diabetes educator and a nurse practitioner to get us set up for our training.

Scott Benner 11:29
How long after this diagnosis, does the next one happen? Well,

Speaker 1 11:33
that was August 24 2018 and then 2020 in late February. Our oldest was diagnosed with celiac

Scott Benner 11:45
about a year and a half later. And then, yeah, yeah,

Speaker 1 11:51
September of 2021 was the other type one. Wow. So it's within three years, three years all that happened, yes, and then the second one, because I was on high alert with the first one. We got five kids. I just knew, in my mind, I can't explain, I knew that she was going to get diabetes. I don't it sounds crazy, but I just knew she was going to get it. We did the trial net the two oldest, they did not want to do the trial net tests? Or yeah, the two oldest did not. The third oldest, he did it. He tested negative for trial net. Our youngest that was diagnosed in 2021 I think she tested for only two of the auto antibodies. But we switched. We went from our area. We traveled two hours away for all of our endocrinology now, they do a really good job where we're at now that was the first time we did not see an endocrinologist until two years after diagnosis. If that tells you anything about the area we live in,

Scott Benner 12:56
who were you seeing? Just the general practitioner. Yes, it

Speaker 1 13:00
was not a doctor, it was a nurse practitioner, nurse practitioner and a diabetes educator. Yes, and we had the first diagnosis. I didn't know they were a very bad fit for our family, because they put us on such a restricted diet for this child, who we now know also has Oppositional Defiant Disorder, so to put them on such a restricted diet, you know, five carbs or less for any snack, we had a huge Food Battle for probably three years of hers taking food without insulin. You know, I'd go out in the yard, there'd be wrappers everywhere, and then I'd go to the appointment. And her numbers were always her. ANC was always like, 7.6 and under. But they would pull up her chart, and he would say, what did she eat here? Why did she eat that I got so stressed out over the micromanaging us, and they would shame me. It was a personality conflict between me and the person, nurse practitioner, for some reason, she just didn't care for me. So anyway, we switched, and then we saw an endocrinologist for the first time, and he does a lot of research and a lot of medical studies. So when I went to him, I brought the trial, net study results, and he said, This child has a like, I think, of 80% chance of getting type one diabetes. She's going to have it in three years. And I think that was in like 2020 back to the youngest. I would do random finger sticks on her after because we took her out of the pool one day, and she was so angry and grumpy, I did a finger stick, and she was, I think, 44 and I thought, well, she's been playing in the pool, swimming, and then, you know, a few months later, she was out at church, and she had a pee accident. She was five at the time. She had never had that happen before, so I did a finger stick, and she was in the 200 So we kind of knew,

Scott Benner 15:02
yeah, just take her to your endo at that point, or to did you call?

Speaker 1 15:06
I call them, and I just let them know that we were watching for it, and they were okay with that. And we got five kids. Life is very busy. That's one good thing. I don't get to sit and worry too much about certain things, because it's just crazy.

Scott Benner 15:22
Too busy going, Yeah, well, yeah. So let's talk a little bit about management. So the first one has it for a couple years prior to the next one. How are you managing? Pumping needles? Do you have a CGM? What? What are you doing there?

Speaker 1 15:36
I think we did three months with only finger six. They did not put us on a Dexcom right away, so we she's diagnosed in August, and I think it was right around Thanksgiving, we got the Dexcom for her, and then I wanted to move to the insulin pump, because she's the one that takes food without insulin. And I wanted her on an insulin pump. I wanted the tea slim, because we tried different phones, people gave us phones and then the receiver, and it was always getting lost all the time. So I wanted the tea slim pump so it'd be connected to her. We could not lose that pump. And our provider, that's why we switched providers, actually, is she kept saying, No, you cannot have it until you get this child's diabetes under control, because she could see, you know, we were giving corrections during the day. I think we were doing they wanted what they wanted, only six boluses a day for her. So that means why that's just the way she wanted. The lady wanted it done was you've got too many boluses. I think we're around like eight to 12, because she would take food or not boluses, because they had me enter in every time I gave her an injection that was before the pump. I'm sorry. So they, they'd have me enter in on the receiver every time I gave her insulin. And they said, This is too much. You need to stop once you get down to six boluses a day you can get the insulin pump. So I finally left the practice because I just felt you would do better on an insulin pump. Okay,

Scott Benner 17:11
man, you kind of had to go find the the guidance that you were looking for.

Speaker 1 17:16
Yes, yeah, yes. And they never where I'm at. They've never shamed us or scolded us one time. They've been really good. Because the endocrinologist, he also has type one. He's on the same insulin pump, you know, in like, you know, I'll be in the appointment with him, and they'll say, Aren't you high right now? And he's like, Oh yes, I'm 200 and it's just very nice to have, you know, to be able to see he's an endocrinologist. He does research, and he does get high. He said he gets kind of stressed out during the day sometimes. And so it's, I think it's relatable for our kids to see he has the pump on him. Got it? Okay?

Scott Benner 17:54
I have two questions here. How do you find the podcast?

Speaker 1 17:57
I found it very quickly. Actually, I think I was still in the hospital, because for our first diagnosis, we homeschool our kids, and I was in a very large homeschooling group, and they were kind of following my story. That's where I got the information to go to the hospital. Yeah, and then someone, I don't know who it was that someone I knew, they told me about your podcast. Nice.

Scott Benner 18:19
Did it help you? And if so, how like, did you find it more of like a community support information like mix

Speaker 1 18:28
both. I'm a I'm a researcher, information person, any health issue we have going on. I've got a little ADHD brain. I, you know, the hyper focus on new things. So I was at that time with all the kids I have. I used to read all the time, but it's hard. I don't have the time to read. So I do listen to podcasts, so that fit perfectly. Gotcha to listen. And I listen. Mostly. I listen to the educational ones, and here and there I'll listen to the stories of people, but usually I like the parenting ones with the therapist. Oh, you like Erica, yes, yes, right? With our situation we're in. I love therapists and psychologists right now, so I'll listen to those and the parenting ones, and then I the Pro Tip series. I've listened to a lot of those. And the beginnings every listen to some of those on bolusing and that type of thing. It's

Scott Benner 19:26
been valuable for you. Yes, very

Speaker 1 19:28
I've, I've learned way more that way than any of our appointments we go to. And when we go with the two of them, we're there for two hours every three months. You know, between all the educators and everything, I think that has been the most helpful for me. Gotcha?

Scott Benner 19:44
Okay, great. It's just nice to know how it helps. Okay, let's pick through your the stuff that you sent me. You basically listed four ideas about things you might want to cover while we're talking caretaking for the caretaker, when there are multiple to caretake, that's. So tell me what you meant by that.

Speaker 1 20:01
Well, I know for health issues, we started out when we were first married and having kids, my husband has chronic migraines, so it kind of puts you in a single parenting mode of taking care of that person and then running the household.

Scott Benner 20:17
Tell me for a second, like, use a month as an example, a full 30 days. What do chronic migraines look like? Chronic

Speaker 1 20:24
migraine is, if you have more than 14 migraines a month, if you're taking aspirin or pain reliever for headache more than two days a week, you should see a neurologist, is basically the guideline. But if it's 14 or more that's considered chronic migraine. And

Scott Benner 20:43
these are crippling, I imagine, but How so, like, what? What's the impact on him? For

Speaker 1 20:48
him, they are not everyone is crippling, but we have done well before 2018 they did not have this specific medication. It's the CGRP antibody. It's a shot once a month shot. So before 2018 we were going to the emergency room at least once a month for his migraines, and it's crippling that he would get extreme vomiting, nausea, dehydration, so they would put him on a cocktail what

Scott Benner 21:22
is just an anti nausea and like other things?

Speaker 1 21:26
Yeah, yeah, it's reglan Benadryl and toradol, some type of it's a narcotic cocktail.

Scott Benner 21:35
So he's not really valuable during these episodes as a character,

Speaker 1 21:38
yeah? No. And usually back then, he would be sick for days, and I would just get to a point when he started saying he wanted to die, I would pack him up and go to the hospital. And you know, when we're waiting in the waiting room, a lot of times he would be in his underwear, he couldn't get his shoes on, or, you know, he would be laying on the floor in the waiting room. So it was not like for him, it's not like you got a headache and you're, you know, the commercials they show the lady with their she looks all pretty, and her hand is on her head.

Scott Benner 22:08
Do you have migraines? Like, this pretty woman, like, yeah, it doesn't look like that. No Phoebe.

Speaker 1 22:14
No people. I'd bring him in and everyone would look horrified, and they move out of his way because,

Scott Benner 22:19
yeah, because they thought, they thought you were bringing a crackhead in there. That's why, yes,

Speaker 1 22:23
they had no idea. But my two boys also got them as children and their abdominal migraines, where they would just vomit for a couple of days and then they'd be fine. So we had a lot going on back then. The boys have grown out of it. My husband, I think it was about two weeks before our first diabetes diagnosis, he started taking this shot, the AMO VIG shot, okay, and that has helped a lot, so they're a lot less violent. I think since then, we've only been to the hospital once or twice for a migraine. I see that's

Scott Benner 22:58
crazy. That's it. And how long has he been living like

Speaker 1 23:02
that, but since I met him in 1998 so when I first met him and we were dating, I and went to see my parents, and his dad called me one day. He said, We just wanted to let you know that has a migraine. And I'm like, Okay, I just thought it was a bad headache, and they said we called the ambulance to take him to the hospital. So I had no idea when we first met what all that entailed. Yeah,

Scott Benner 23:31
wow, and you still married him. Look at you. I

Speaker 1 23:35
know. Well, you know, back then I'm a eternal optimist and happy, positive person. I just figured you could work through anything. If you work hard enough, you can work through everything. And I, as you get older, you realize that that's not always the case. You're like,

Scott Benner 23:51
you're like, back then, I had optimism. Scott, what? What do you have today?

Speaker 1 23:56
Oh, I'm a little bit of a cynic. Now,

Scott Benner 23:59
just because things have been hard.

Speaker 1 24:03
Yes, we have had very hard road to home. I guess you could stay Yes, because that was like the end of the world. We thought the migraines as I stay at home with our children. We've moved all over the United States for his job. So I think from 2004 to 2012 we've had maybe nine different homes that we've lived in with all these kids moving around. Yeah, we've been in the same place since 2012

Scott Benner 24:33
How does he make out working? When, when the migraines come?

Speaker 1 24:38
Well, his job, where he works, is very good. It's a very odd schedule. It's not nine to five. Their clients come in around the clock, so he might be working weekends, nights or days. So since it kind of checkerboards the time, because most of the migraines are early morning, where the worst ones are like, you know, he'll wake up with it. But. With him sometimes going in later in the day, it helped him. You'd give him time to recover. And he's worked the same job since 2007 different locations, and there's a high need for what his work is. So I think that helps.

Scott Benner 25:14
And obviously you don't get a migraine while you're having sex, because you have five kids. So I assume that's his damn part.

Speaker 1 25:21
Although I have said after he does get them, there is such a thing as there are migraines triggered after sexual activity. So there is some people who get it afterwards, but he does not see any correlation. Oh, good, because

Scott Benner 25:35
that would be scary, because if you're like, you know what I mean, like, so then this part's gonna happen, and then I'm getting an addict. That's not usually how I usually how I like to think about this part. You know what

Speaker 1 25:44
I mean? Yes, and I just thought we were ordinary people, but people probably think we do a lot of that. Since we have five children, I just think we're very fertile. One of us is very fertile. I

Scott Benner 25:56
see I say you've had sex five times in the last 10 years, and every time you got a baby, I got

Speaker 1 26:01
you, yeah, that sounds right. You

Scott Benner 26:05
said one of the kids has odd what is that? Is it one of the kids with type one? Or no?

Speaker 1 26:10
Yes, the first one with type one, we did not know what it was, because before we found out about the diabetes, she'd get real angry, particularly with me, like kissing and just kind of off the wall. Did you say? Kissing? Kissing. Yes, you kiss me. Kiss.

Scott Benner 26:31
Oh my god, I left her at a grocery store. Okay, all right. So hold on, hey, honey, one of them hisses at me. We got four others. What do you think you just want to go to buckies and leave this one in the beef jerky section and get out of here. No, seriously hissing. Like, like, make me understand. Like, there's a an inconvenience, there's an argument. Like, how does what leads to that?

Speaker 1 26:53
Yes, I'd say stop doing that. And the response would be his scene, if she had hit, you know, so she was, she was just, I always called her a fireball from a toddler age, because she would get up on the table and when, you know, she'd hit her brother in the head with a troquey ball, she hit me in the head with a Trojan ball. She was just, she was very sweet. But she's also just off the chain sometimes. And then I was ready to talk to our pediatrician about a behavior issue, and my husband has always been very anti therapy, and he said, No, don't do it. They'll take her away or something. So that well, visit before her type one diagnosis. I didn't bring it up. And then we got the diabetes diagnosis, and I thought, Well, maybe it's her blood sugar. Maybe her blood sugar has been right causing her to behave that way for a long time, but we've kind of since then. We figured out it does not matter what her blood sugar is, and we've since then, we have done so much therapy. So for her, they say oppositional defiance disorder, odd ago, agoraphobia, selective mutism, is another one that she is dealing with anxiety, so

Scott Benner 28:09
hold on one second, odd, irritable moods, argumentative, defiant behavior, aggression, vindictiveness. That all sounds like that. Okay, and then what were the other two things? I'm sorry, selective

Speaker 1 28:20
mutism. What is that? Because when we are out in public, she does not talk to people. She hardly talks to anybody. She speaks to our neighbor, friends. You know people she's known for a long time, but if I take her out somewhere, she will just sit by my side, not speaking to anybody who are responding to most people unless she knows who

Scott Benner 28:47
they are, and that's an anxiety disorder.

Speaker 1 28:49
Yes, well, we're still, we're Yeah, we're still picking through it. We are waiting for her to have a psychological evaluation. A behavioral pediatrician told us these things, but there's a 14 month waiting list for a psychological exam for a child right now. Jesus,

Scott Benner 29:07
how many kids speak parcel tongue. I didn't realize all this. I don't know if I'm joking or not joking, but like, the hissing is like, must have scared the living crap out of you, right? It

Speaker 1 29:16
did. We had a lot of and after her diagnosis, I mean, I think she has a lot of anger. She does not know how to communicate her feelings. Is the same thing her dad. I think she's on track with her dad. He cannot communicate his emotions very well either. But sometimes she would say she wanted to kill me. She wanted to kill herself. This after the diabetes diagnosis, and it was we had a I had a very difficult time because I was the one dealing with her all the time. Sure, I'm the I Am the diabetes manager for both of them. I do 99% of it. Are

Scott Benner 29:50
you okay? What do you do for yourself?

Unknown Speaker 29:58
Oh, um, the. Give me a second.

Scott Benner 30:00
No, you're fine. Take your time.

Speaker 1 30:05
I will say, I appears to be okay, you know, because we were pretty active in the community. A lot of people know we're a family, because not many people have five kids anymore. So we were involved in a church I started running a few years ago. I go to the gym, do therapy. Now, I got a dog a couple years ago, a golden retriever. I walk her every day. I have a friend in the neighborhood. They have a golden retriever too. They have a play date almost every day. So I do get out. I do things. I'm not gonna lie. We are in a very difficult place. It's not just her situation. What my husband is dealing with is a very kind of dark to me, mental health disorder I did not know existed until two, almost two years ago.

Scott Benner 30:53
I'm sorry your husband has something going on that you have not mentioned so far. Yes, are you willing? Yes, you want to skip it, or you want to say it,

Speaker 1 31:01
I'll say it. That's why I am on here, because I don't Well younger people probably know, because my 19 year old says everyone younger than me knows mental health, but us older people don't know anything about it. So he way back, he would kind of get angry over what I thought were small things, and we just thought he had a bad temper, or he was very organized and didn't like things out of place, because I'm kind of ADHD. I tend to lose things, forget things. So we saw that early in our marriage, some but it would kind of blow over pretty quickly, and it was far and few between, right? Probably when our oldest was about 10, they started to have a little bit of a power struggle, struggle that she did not seem respectful to him, and he was have a hard time with her, because she should just be obedient all the time. And the fifth child, she was actually a surprise. We were not planning on having a fifth child, and after she was born, she was a baby. He just casually mentioned to me one day that he was thinking of killing himself, and that really freaked me out. I talked to a friend of mine that was a nurse practitioner, and she said, Well, do you want to inpatient him? And I said no, because he's very anti therapy, mental health treatment. So we did not, I didn't do anything. We just kind of wrote it out. And then it happened another time where he I saw him leave the house with a some things in hand, and he just acted strangely, but nothing happened from that. And then he started, if he'd get upset, he would just leave, like, drive off, and I would try to beg him to come back. You know, I need you home. We'll do better, that kind of thing. I'll be a better wife, better mom. Just come back home because I state I've been home, not working since 2004 he's our sole source of income. And then it started. More and more he would talk about he's been thinking of leaving, just leaving the family. And

Scott Benner 33:11
you said he left the house with stuff in hand, like, You mean, like, like a gun or something that hurt himself with or,

Speaker 1 33:17
yes, okay, yes. I didn't know what it was his work bag, and it was not usually he, if he's going, he was wearing shorts and sandals. He had hurt his back. We were waiting for him to have a back surgery. At that time, I followed him out to the car, and you know, he he's not a very emotional, like crying type, and he's like, I'm sorry. I love you. Tell the kids, I love them, then you drove off. And I and I knew in my heart, I knew he wasn't going to do anything that day, and he did not. But you know it was, it was concerning, but I didn't know what it was. And I think it was 2022 like that summer, I started seeing a therapist for me, because I just felt like I was doing everything wrong, like I wasn't a good enough wife, I wasn't a good enough mom. And someone recommended I read the book stop walking on eggshells. And when I read that book, the first part, there's my talks about borderline personality order disorder and narcissistic personality disorder. And there's nine traits that someone will have for I think it's border, borderline and narcissistic personality order. And I cried through that whole list because I picked out at least five or six for him. And then the book says, Don't tell them that they have it, because it's such a difficult thing for them to deal with. They don't know how to deal with emotions. Basically, it's a big fear of abandonment. So when he was saying he was going to leave, you know he feels he's worried that we're going to leave him so he's going to leave us before we can leave him. If that makes sense, that's where a lot of that abandonment is. Thing comes from, I did not tell him, but you're supposed to stop caretaking. I'm a big caretaker. I will make you nice meals and do everything for you and set up all your doctor appointments and completely make you feel good and well taken care of. But that is what I needed to stop doing. That's what. You can't do it all. They have to do things for themselves and their own mental health. So I, I don't know what made it come to a head, but one night he he woke me up. We have firearms in our house, and he had loaded a weapon in our bedroom, and was, you know, ready to, you know, take his life. So I said, Well, I think you have this. I read about this, and, you know, he kind of calmed down because he's was saying that he just cannot get all these things out of his head that he's thinking, yeah. And so I said, I think you've got this. I read the list to him, and he said this, yes, this does sound kind of right. And this is about, almost. It'll be two years in October. So we went through the list, and I was thinking in my mind that remember earlier I said, if you work hard enough, you can get through everything. I figured that he now he knew this little bit that he would just be like me and pick it up and run with it, but he didn't, he want, doesn't want therapy and all of that stuff. So that's kind of where we have been almost two years, of him going in this circle again, of not this stuff happens over and over again, and I'm doing more for myself without

Scott Benner 36:35
getting help. It's not going to end obviously, no. And

Speaker 1 36:38
if you if you were to read up on it, it's not a medication thing. Bipolar Disorder, my understanding, is more of a chemical imbalance, and they can give medication the personality disorders. It's your personality that needs to change. So what they want is it's something called dialectical behavior therapy, DBT therapy. And if you were to aggressively go at it, you would be at a therapy, doing therapy twice a week, taking DBT classes and always working on this. I think it's a two year course of once to twice a week therapy classes for two years. He knows this exists. Yeah, he told I've talked to them since then, we visited a couple different therapists for this. You want someone that is older, you know, that's been in practice for a long time, does the DBT therapy? And he's had a couple tell him. They just tell him he has the traits. They'll call it a spectrum. And I think the narcissistic personality disorder, they don't think they like to tell people they have that.

Scott Benner 37:47
So you think that the that therapy would help him, but he doesn't. He's not willing to do it.

Speaker 1 37:53
It can help him. I mean, you can go to therapy, but you have to put work into it, you know,

Scott Benner 37:58
yeah. I mean, I'm assuming he goes and does what he needs to do. You think it would help him, but he's not interested. In doing it. Is that correct?

Speaker 1 38:04
Yes, he's gone a handful of times since we figured it out, and we've had a lot of things go down in our house since that one night I told you about have to draw a line in the sand, as we have to do this therapy, you know, for us to stay together. So he, he did have one appointment a couple weeks ago, and then he said he couldn't get in until the middle of June, but he only scheduled two more appointments. You know, he would really need to be getting, you know, let's fill up her calendar the year, yeah, and knock it all out. So I don't know if I'm not really sure that. And when I set up to be on the podcast, I picked the farthest date possible, which is now, because I was hoping I'd have more of a better idea what direction we're going, but nothing I don't know. No, it is a little more definitive, because we're at the kind of the point whether we have to figure out if we're going to stay together. Stay together or not, because it's strongly affecting our all of our children, sure, not just the diabetic children, because they see things and hear things that they should not be seeing and hearing, but because I am a root Christian homeschool family, you know, we're supposed to be all

Scott Benner 39:18
good, not going the way you expected.

Speaker 1 39:20
No, it is not at all how I expected. I'm actually looking into perhaps working full time in the fall and putting my children all in public school, but the ones that are still in school

Scott Benner 39:32
because you're trying to become more self sufficient, because you think this can't go on. Yeah,

Speaker 1 39:38
yes, yes. And sadly, I mean, our home environment is not pleasant with all this going on. My two older boys said that they actually I thought I just last night, I talked to them about maybe going to public school, and they seem okay with it. The one said, I'd rather be there than at home all the time. And I mean, we do. Things. He works with both my my oldest son is 17, so he has a job, a part time job, and they have friends, and they have activities, but he just, you know, he's ready. I think he wants to try something different. And the the older boys are fine. My eight and 12 year old are not. But we're working on that?

Scott Benner 40:21
No, of course. I mean, it's obviously encompassing and difficult and a lot to consider, but I think you're thinking about it correctly, about separating the kids from it

Unknown Speaker 40:31
honestly.

Scott Benner 40:32
You know what? I mean? Like, it's just, it's, I mean, it's too much to to go through as a kid, and the repercussions from that are going to be. Have you heard of the aces, the 10 aces of trauma? I have not okay, so they're going to come up in a NEP in a series about resilience with Erica that's going to come out pretty soon, but, but basically, there's these 10 childhood experiences that have the potential to change like the course of your life, right? And they are physical abuse, sexual abuse, verbal abuse, physical neglect, emotional neglect, mental illness. And what that means is a household member with a mental illness that impacts their ability to provide proper care for the child. This has a profound impact on the child. The experience could be depression, a household member attempting suicide, or other mental illness. The seventh thing on the list is substance abuse. So alcohol or drinking in the household,

Speaker 1 41:30
we don't have that. That's the one thing we got going for us,

Scott Benner 41:34
imprisonment. Somebody in the household has been incarcerated, witnessing abuse, and then, has somebody witnessed abuse?

Speaker 1 41:43
We don't have any physical abuse, but it, from what I have read, we've got emotional, verbal, financial and spiritual. I know I don't think you are a Christian, but you know, if I'm told I'm not being a biblical wife for certain things.

Scott Benner 42:01
Oh, you, you get shamed through religion, yeah,

Speaker 1 42:05
yes, and I am a Christian. I Jesus died on the cross for my sins. I know that, but that does not mean I need to be perfect in all things. Because, you know, things will happen. You know, he said he's, you know, pulls the attic door down, we can hear it, and gets his bags and throws him down. I'm packing up, I'm leaving. They'll hear that in my little one, the teenagers, they can I know they care, but they act like they don't care, like he's just trying to get attention. But my eight year old, she will cry her little heart out because her daddy is

Scott Benner 42:39
well. So my bigger point here is not that that's not horrifying. I'm sorry, the 10 thing on the list is losing a parent to separation, divorce or death. But you know, how many of these Did you? Can you count on your fingers when I read physical abuse,

Speaker 1 42:52
not physical we've got a verbal, emotional, mental health disorder, attempted suicide. We've had several times. I did have to call the authorities in December The kids also, I'm leaving the house for that, but he was not arrested, and the separation, that is a big topic in our family right now that we're trying to I'm trying to decide which way to go, because, like I said, I've been at home with the children. I have a college degree, but when you don't work for 18 or 19 years, that does not mean very much. Yes,

Scott Benner 43:24
listen, Phoebe, if it makes you feel any better, I I have a fairly successful business, and a lot of people listen to my podcast. I don't think I could get a job. So, like, I think I if I went out the working world, they'd be like, you're a what now? And I'd be like, yeah, no, I've been a podcaster and a stay at home dad. They'd like, yeah, no. Thank you. Listen. The reason I bring up the ACE is because these adverse childhood experiences are indicators for problems your kids are going to have in the future. But it's not a set in stone thing, and so while I have never once advocated for the disillusion of somebody's like family, I do think that if you remove your kids from that situation, that gives them a better chance to not find themselves in that situation as adults. And then it makes me wonder, of that list that I read to you, do you think, how many of those things do you think your husband grew

Speaker 1 44:13
up with? He had both parents growing up? So I don't really unders. I don't know, but I think there is parts of it. I think the difference is, I think his mom just went in and line and kept him happy, and that kept the home better for the kids. I think that it was, it was there, the same, the mental.

Scott Benner 44:34
Think the father in law has it too, and the mother in law just put her head down and made it all go away as best you could.

Speaker 1 44:41
Yes, codependency, because that's what I would do. I would just try to keep the peace. I don't like conflict, so I just tried to appease him. And then at some point there was like a switch, you know, because he he called, he was out driving around, and he says, I'm gonna take this job in another state and start over. And I. Okay, because I was at home and our all of our kids were little, and I wanted to be home with our babies, I would beg for him to come back. And then I one day, I'm like, why am i This is so humiliating. I should not have to I'm not that bad of a person that I need to beg my husband. Well,

Scott Benner 45:15
first of all, let's say this. You're not a bad person at all like so it's probably hard, from your perspective to see it, but you're describing like a show in 17 different directions, and not a thing that you or anybody else should have to deal with and listen respect to the fact that he has obvious issues, and we'd like to see him get helped, if it's not possible for him to be helped, and hope for a resolution, then you have to ask yourself, like, Well, how long do I let my kids sit around this fire burning at their feet when he's not trying to put it out and you can't, maybe you can't blame him for that, which is fine. Like, maybe it's, maybe he's so far down, you know, a direction that it's not something he can break free on his own. Like, also, no, there's, you know, no disrespect about that. If you have a mental illness, you're probably not the best one to help yourself out of it. But no, at some point, like you're not, you're not describing anything joyful, you're not describing anything fulfilling. You know, it's a one way relationship. It basically feels like you've described, there's this guy that lives in my house, and he puts money in a pile. And so here's all the things he does when we just try to ignore him the best we can, because there's money coming. Is that right at this point? I'm sorry,

Speaker 1 46:40
it is. And he, I think he can tell somehow he is able to keep working. And I did. I mean, we, I'm not gonna, I mean, we had a very enjoy. Obviously, he was not like this when I married. Of course, you know, we had a lot of good times. We've lived in a lot of neat places, and I think my understanding is with a disorder, especially as the kids get older, you know, they feel like they you know, for me, I could keep, kind of keep the peace by doing things the way he liked it. But you have more kids, they start getting older, they talk back a little, they get their own mindset, and they don't agree with everything he does. And then we have a kid, one kid was type one diabetes, and then all of a sudden, my attention is pretty much off of him, you know, because I'm trying to figure out diabetes, yeah, and manage this. And then then 18 months later, there's celiac okay? We have to learn how to do all the gluten free right stuff, and we're doing diabetes. It just took all the attention off of

Scott Benner 47:38
him. Oh, no, yeah, you were basically your job was to throw the dragon meat so it didn't burn everybody. And then you got distracted with other more important things, and now suddenly you can really see what happens to him if you're not placating his and basically petting him and telling him to stay calm. Yes, yeah. No, no, listen, this is obviously difficult, but I mean, so tell me something like, Do you have a plan?

Speaker 1 48:05
I'm working on, on a plan, and it's kind of, it's not funny, but it is. You know, we lived here long enough I've known I've gotten to know enough ladies, and that's another reason why I wanted to talk about this, because there are so many people I know, three or four personal friends, that I've had a long time living very similar situations, and I had no idea until about two years ago. I just, I don't tell everybody. A lot of people know what I am dealing with now our church knows I've talked to them. My neighbors know I've got safe places to go, like three different houses in the neighborhood to go to, and my kids know where to go. I'm working with a domestic abuse advocate right now. Yeah, that kind of pushes me to do more than what I would want to do. At my church, I have some friends that are law enforcement. He's former US Marshal and SWAT team, so he you know, so I have people I can talk to. And the thing I'm really battling is with myself, because I know I'm going to have to make a decision, and I've kind of kicked the can down the road because I don't want to make the decision. I don't, I understand he's not going to be the one who can think clearly and do it. So I, you know, right, if it comes that we need to separate, it'll be me having to make the call, and I will look like the bad person to the children and everybody. Well, you

Scott Benner 49:38
know, listen, that sounds like it might be inevitable, because your luck is terrible. Like, I mean, honestly, like, as you described this whole life, people, here's something people don't know you went to your church to find quiet to record, because you like, my house is going to be too loud. And then I and then then a smoke. Detector and like, a fire alarm went off while you were there. Like, does it must? You must be like, God, nothing goes right for me. Like, like, that's exactly what I thought when that went off. I'm like, this poor lady. I mean, Jesus Christ.

Speaker 1 50:15
No, that. That is my life in a nutshell. And I look, I left my keys inside. I hope I'll be able to find them. Yes, no, my life. People that hear my life, they just, yeah,

Scott Benner 50:27
no. It's that old adage. It feels like, it feels like, if I wrote this as a movie, people would be like, Oh, it's too over the top. I can't believe all this. Yeah.

Speaker 1 50:36
You know it is. We have dealt with a lot. Yes, they got me locked out of the building, but smoke detector went off. But I'll just hang out by my car. I'll go back later and get my car keys. You're gonna be able to get in. Are you sure? Yes, they have a they have a doorbell. I was gonna

Scott Benner 50:54
say, we've just ringed the bell like Jesus opens the door or something like that. Is that how it works? There's our guy that works there. I guess maybe. Secretary, yes, Secretary, I'm sorry. Don't be sorry. You don't mean to what.

Unknown Speaker 51:11
I don't cause trouble.

Scott Benner 51:13
Please. First of all, don't apologize to me. You didn't do anything wrong, to be perfectly honest with you, I think it's I think it's good. I think it puts a an exclamation point on your story. Honestly, like just everything at this moment seems hard. You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 51:30
Yes, everything, everything is hard. So and I will, I The other thing, I want to encourage people, because I did not have any friends in our neighborhood until covid He hit because we started walking. The kids were older. I started walking. I started running and meeting people. And for a while, there were actually a group of people that would come in our front yard every afternoon we put out the chairs, and there'd be a bunch of people sitting in our neighbors coming to talk to us, because there's nothing to do during covid, right? So I met a friend in our neighborhood that was like, 18 years older than me, married, has a dog. The kids like playing with his dog, and just by talking to, I hate to use the word normal people, but emotionally healthy people, it really showed what was going on in my life. And I don't if that hadn't happened, I don't know if I would have seen it. I think it would have taken me longer to see it, because I don't know how to describe it here. You know, just a healthy, emotional person that, you know, I didn't get upset over little things all the time. And,

Scott Benner 52:49
yeah, normal. The word, the word you're looking for, is normal. Like, like, I think it's possible you have been in this for so long, I don't think you recognize how strange it is no

Speaker 1 53:04
no, because my parents would come from across the country that we'd see them once a year, and they would buy things for the house, and my husband would get really upset and disrespected and make me return stuff. I you know, if they the only way they could get gifts for us was, you know, they come visit, and we'd go shopping while he was at work, and he might not notice that they bought the kids a bunch of underwear and shoes and things. Yeah, it's because I'd have to kind of keep it on the down low that someone's buying stuff for for us. I'm

Scott Benner 53:34
gonna say something that I can't be sure of. But if you pack those kids up right now and left, and I don't know what your situation is, financially or, like, I know there's a lot to consider, right? But you've, you've also, you know, you've just, you've talked about a lot of disorder in the house. There's firearms, there people threatening to kill themselves, you know, these power moves on you about, I'm leaving, like, that's just to keep you in line. You know what? I mean, that stuff and like all this is going on, and I can't be certain of this. There's a large part of me that thinks that if you broke free of this and got yourself reestablished somewhere else and got some time away from it, that a year or two from now, you'd look back on this story and think, I can't believe I didn't see this completely for what it was like, because this is horrifying, and you're laughing through it like, and I know probably laughing to not cry, but like, but I genuinely don't know that you know how bad this is. Now

Speaker 1 54:35
the description, because I I read, I listen to a lot of podcasts and things. And the description is, like, you are, you know, you put the frog in the cold water and you slowly heat it up, and you don't even know. You don't

Scott Benner 54:47
know you're boiling alive, yeah, you have no idea right now. Like, like, there's your description makes me feel like a SWAT team should drop in that house and extricate you. Like, like, I'm not, I'm not even joking. I'm worried what happens. If you tell him you're leaving, or if you ask him to leave, yes,

Speaker 1 55:03
I just had that conversation with a friend last night, because this is all it's been kind of coming, yeah, to a head What? What he does now is he just stays away as much as possible and come to him after we are sleeping, and I wanted to talk, we're gonna say, you know, you need. We're actually meeting with our church pastor tomorrow. My husband called him to talk about this. I don't know what he wants to accomplish, but it's kind of coming to a head right now. And my friend, she said, Well, you need. Where were you gonna go? And I was gonna go the ponds across our road, you know. And she's like, No, no, you need to go somewhere public. And I was trying to set up a meeting with him, and he says, No, I'm not doing that. I'm just gonna come home after you guys are asleep tonight. Yeah.

Scott Benner 55:53
I mean, listen, you might need, you might need a cop, a priest and three other like armed guards, to have this conversation. Let me ask you a question. What does better look like to you? Like? What has to happen for you to stay with him and be happy and fulfilled

Speaker 1 56:14
like you said? I don't even know. It's possible what my plan was, or what my hope was when we figured it out was he would do all this treatment. I we've had a in the last month. He I've finally gotten to go to a psychiatrist, and they wanted medication for the depression. He was not doing that. I wanted regular therapy sessions. He's not doing that. He has an appointment in June 15. I don't know if they're going to put it all in the books, but I don't think he can do it. So I would just need to see that he is being proactive in the all this wild stuff to simmer down, because we just, we had a horrible weekend, just, just all kinds of things going on, but I don't think we can get packed in. Yeah,

Scott Benner 57:01
none of that's going to change. Like, your life is like, living you're living inside of a tornado, inside of a hailstorm, and so, like, like, the oh, this weekend was tough. Or that's always going to be like that. And I'm not even telling you, like your kids have some issues too. You might move away and be like, This is not good. It's just better and more possible for you to focus on what's happening. Listen, you're 50. How long have you been married?

Speaker 1 57:28
We just had our 23rd wedding anniversary,

Scott Benner 57:31
a couple. So you got married. You were what, 27 when you got married?

Speaker 1 57:36
Yes, we met. I think I was 23 when we met just right out of college. Okay,

Scott Benner 57:43
that's my point. How many serious adult relationships did you have before this person?

Unknown Speaker 57:47
The very this

Scott Benner 57:48
was the very first one. You do not even know how you're supposed to be treated.

Speaker 1 57:53
No, I cannot even fathom what a good I mean, my parents were together. My dad is just he's our friends. Everyone just loves him. He's so good to my mom, and that's what blows me away, is how I even got,

Scott Benner 58:08
yeah, well, that ship sailed, but like, but listen, I'm just going to tell you that if, if I did one of the things that you listed, my wife would beat me up, bounce the head, throw me right out the front door and lock the door. If I did all of them, she'd shoot me and then tell the judge what I did and go, I thought it was okay. Seriously, like there's no world where you should be treated like this. No, and

Speaker 1 58:30
it doesn't start. All this radical stuff was not going on early. Early on, it was, hey, you lost the remote control. I need it right now. You know,

Scott Benner 58:43
he's right. His thing's gotten worse, and it's ramped up, but it's always been there to some degree or a level, right? Like you've like, when you stop and look back, like, has there ever been a time where if you did something quote, unquote wrong, you weren't told you weren't being a good Christian? Or some, I'm sorry to say this, but some like that, some controlling decision, like, I'll make a power move, I'll leave. You're begging him, like, like, really think about how he's treating you. You're the one begging him not to go. Well, you know what I mean? Yes,

Speaker 1 59:13
good, right? Yes, I, I will say, you know, I had, you know, pretty low confidence. I had not been in a relationship before. So and then, when you have a bunch of small children, you know, babies at home, not, you know, not working, it is scary to think you know he's going to leave. I've got all you know, these four. It didn't get like that until we had four at home, and I think we had just had, is after the last one. So we had five kids within 11 years time. So we had five kids, 11 years old and under, yeah, with me seeing no real way for me to support them. And that's the other thing. You know, he. You will sometimes say, if you leave, I will quit my job, you know, so you won't have the, you know, even there's the fear you might not even have child support.

Scott Benner 1:00:11
I don't know how to say this, like, like, politely, so let me just talk right around it. I mean, are you wealthy?

Speaker 1 1:00:18
No, we're not wealthy. We've got five kids, you know, high medical needs. We're middle class, okay, maybe lower ish, middle class. You

Scott Benner 1:00:27
don't have to tell me this, but you told me so much else, I can't imagine. You'll say, No, well, how much the money is he bringing in a year?

Speaker 1 1:00:33
Probably about 160 about 100,000 about 150 150 $160,000

Scott Benner 1:00:40
okay, well, listen, if you get divorced, he gets to keep some of it too. So you're looking at like existing off of, you know, I'm gonna guess, about $80,000 you and those five kids. And, you know, you can get a job, certainly, and take some of that money. And you might have to you might have to lean on social services of some kind to help make the rest of it up, but I think that gives your kids the best possible chance at a reasonable adult life. Because I hate to say this if you be like and I'm sure you can pull yourself around and have some happiness in your life, but I think your main focus has got to be on trying to save the kids from this happening to them, like, I don't, I mean, because you're not fixing this relationship, like, it's not like he didn't make a conscious decision to act like this. This is, I mean, this has crossed wires in his head. You know what? I mean, yes, like, and you're not gonna, you're not gonna rewire that today. And even if he pulls himself together, it could take him a decade or more to help to get that together, and by then, you're gonna have five kids who look more like Him or you, meaning either they're gonna come off like he does, or they're gonna be getting taken advantage of like you do. You're only gonna create one or two different kinds of people in this relationship right now. It's going to be people who get taken advantage of and are told they're not any good like, you have maybe a half a dozen times in the last hour referred to yourself as not a good person. Somehow, like, I don't, I can't even understand that. And so, like, think about your daughter. Do you want your daughter to be with a guy that treats her like this? No, no, but she's seeing you treated like this, and she's gonna think that's what's normal, yes,

Speaker 1 1:02:26
yeah, and I, I had therapy last week, and she it's a secular organization, and she told me at the end, she said, I prayed before seeing you, she said, before I asked her a question, and she said, You need to think about your kids. Your first job right now is to protect your children. Yeah, I agree. So this morning, we live right there's a elementary school right in our neighborhood. My youngest, she's going into third grade. So this morning, I did apply for three different jobs to work in the school system that, you know, it has benefits. Summer's off, school breaks off, and then I'm gonna, I don't know if I can say the company names, but I'm also gonna apply for, you know, Dexcom and tandem diabetes to see if I can do it, customer support work. I know a lot of them work from home, because you call them and you can hear kids and animals in the back, and you can

Scott Benner 1:03:25
hear the prices right while they're telling you about your stuff. Yeah, yeah, that's a great idea. Listen, those are great ideas you have to and I listen, I shudder to give somebody advice, like I really people are probably laughing, but I don't, I don't want you to do something that I think is right. I've only known you for an hour, but I mean, from what you've described, I don't see the downside of you extricating yourself and your kids from this situation. Like, I mean, you, it's not like you've once said, Listen, I have a deep, like, love affair with this man, and it's breaking my heart that this is how he is, like you're saying, like, you know, we're already talking about getting separated, like, you know, like it's not even that, like you're just, from my perspective, you are so beaten down I don't even think you know where you are supposed to be, and I Don't. And I wonder if getting away from it, like, I mean, it's not going to be easy. I don't want to, like joke with you and say, oh, you know, just getting away is going to fix it. That's going to be a step. And there's probably going to be a moment in the first six months afterwards where you feel completely alone and you think, I did the wrong thing. I got to go back. I need help. But those are the moments when you have to realize he is not actually helping you with anything except for money, and this, then the state you live in can compel him to do that. So you know what? I mean,

Speaker 1 1:04:50
it's a lot of here. Well, I know it's not enough to support the the two families. So that is my step ahead. I've I'm starting to save a little. Money. I've got my advocate I'm working with. I'm I'm the type of person I need some type of plan. So that's why I'm applying for some jobs. You know, we've got summer talking about getting the kids in school. So if you look at the domestic abuse side of it, the advocate I'm working with, and I'm in some support groups. There's a lot of people that live with this. Have no idea. No,

Scott Benner 1:05:25
that's the thing that's making me the saddest is I'm thinking, I'm having this conversation with you, and I'm like, Oh, my God, this is crazy. And a lot of people are probably like, this is Tuesday for me. So you know, like, I believe that there's people who are going to be able to help you get through it. They could also probably, I don't know if you have as a family, if you have savings, I they could probably talk to you about how to make sure that you know when you tell him you're leaving or he's getting out, that he can't go empty your accounts and things like that. Like there's ways to get ahead of that stuff too. Yes,

Speaker 1 1:05:56
yeah. Well, that's the part I'm working on. So it looks, it looks kind of small, but the people who know where I've started, they've said it in the last year, I've made huge progress. You know, it's kind of a small way to go. I'm

Scott Benner 1:06:12
very impressed. I'm very, very impressed with with how you're handling this. If you, if you want to know the truth, I can't, seriously, I can't imagine you didn't just like, like, he's like, I'm leaving. I would have been like, Oh yeah, you buddy, I'm leaving. How about I'll brace you to the car. How's that sound? But like you're not doing that. You're not you got your eye on your kids. You're making smart decisions. You're talking to people to make sure you're not making rash decisions. I'm very impressed with how you're handling this seriously. Well, I

Speaker 1 1:06:41
think you need to exhaust all of the avenues, and that is what I'm trying to do, because it is a thing. Feels like you've done it, by the way. Yes, well, we have the sense of, I'll be back here tomorrow with this appointment. I don't know what the purpose of it is, but we'll go through it, and then we'll go from there. I'm just not ready to take the jump yet, but I have people that are willing to help, and I'd like to stay here. We've lived here for 12 years. Our kids know this is their home. They work here. They've got friends here. Yeah, amazing neighborhood. So that's what I'm trying to work out, is if I there's a way we can stay. Also,

Scott Benner 1:07:22
have you considered, what would any of the kids say? I'm staying with dad? Well,

Speaker 1 1:07:27
that is my concern, because the two youngest are the ones with type one diabetes, and he lavishes attention on them, taking them out to eat and buying them things and doing fun things, because he'll say mom and the teenagers, they don't like me and stuff like that, so they are very attached to him, and that is part of the

Scott Benner 1:07:49
oh, he's doing to them. What he's did to you?

Speaker 1 1:07:53
Yeah, he's good. He's very good to the those two girls, and he's

Scott Benner 1:07:56
grooming them, yeah, to be his fans, yes.

Speaker 1 1:07:59
But they also have the diabetes, which he does not manage, and that was kind of the tipping point we had a few weeks ago. They I was I just left home a few minutes ago, and our 12 year old, her infusion set fell off, and I was driving out of the neighborhood, and he's called, and I said, Can you do it? I will come back if you cannot do it, because he does, you know, if the alarms are going off in the night and he's awake, he'll wake me up to go do this stuff. So he says, Yes, I can do it. But then they got in an argument. She didn't like her attitude or something. She called me. The other kids got into it that they're two teenagers at home, they started arguing with him because they didn't like how he was treating the 12 year old. I got the two teenagers to leave and come to me. She wanted to stay with him because she loves daddy, and then she calls me, and she's never put an infusion set on all by herself. She's 12. You're going to start teaching her this year to do it right? I had to FaceTime her how to put it on, because he would not put it on for her. He was so upset. And while I'm putting that set on her, she's on FaceTime, and I can hear him in the background talking about how he's leaving. He's done, he's packing. He's leaving

Scott Benner 1:09:14
because of her attitude around an infusion set change.

Unknown Speaker 1:09:19
Yes, I think she was rough.

Scott Benner 1:09:23
Let me jump in here. I'm sorry. This is indelicate for people listening, and I am not I am not unfeeling for people with mental health disorders, but he's out of his mind, and you have to get away from him.

Speaker 1 1:09:35
That's what I'm thinking. This isn't her first time doing this by herself, and I don't know if she'll remember it, but this is what she has in the background. Is her dad talking about leaving her over something that started over the set.

Scott Benner 1:09:48
Oh yeah, this is, this is the beginning of a of a backslide for her that you won't even recognize till she's in her 30s. Like I'm saying, like the small things that happen to us day by day. Take forever to build up and turn into a good thing or a bad thing, and you'll never know what they were when you look back on them, but they are, for certain, the reason you get where you're going. And so, you know, you just buy 1000 paper cuts. Yeah, exactly. And so, like, maybe this won't be the thing, but all she's gonna have the memory of my dad was unstable, or how about my diabetes is the reason he left? Are you kidding me? You know what I mean. And see people do see stuff like that all the time. Yes,

Speaker 1 1:10:30
I know it happens, but that was the big mental shift for me. And he knows that he knew that he knew he messed up big time for me to hear that and that we've just been extra crazy the last few weeks because he I treat him completely different. He says, You look at me like I'm a cashier at Walmart, and I like I'm friendlier with a cashier at Walmart. Yeah, that

Scott Benner 1:10:53
guy's never yelled at me. But Okay, listen my father. My father left when I was, like, 13, and he told my mom, he put this on her. He told my mom, I'm leaving because I can't take the kids. And then he specifically highlighted me, because I was less willing to to just take his shit and, like, bow my head, right? And so I grew up. I had to, like, I had to get through that, like, at 13 years old, like, Oh, my dad, like, abandoned our family, and it was my fault, you know. And I know it's not. And I even knew then it wasn't. But it didn't mean that him just saying it out loud, didn't hang it on me for 20 years to figure out, you know what I mean. So you

Unknown Speaker 1:11:39
still have it inside a little. Of course, you heard that.

Scott Benner 1:11:42
Yeah, of course, I still have and listen, I've been able to, like, fight through most of this crap. But it's, I can't tell you, it doesn't impact you. We're planning right now, I'm planning to announce, I think next week, that I'm gonna put on a cruise that goes out of Texas, for people who listen to the podcast, right? And we're genuinely not sure, like, by the time this goes up, maybe we'll have a little better of an idea, but we're generally not sure how many people are actually going to want to do this. And there's a business side of it. I have to basically fill 200 state rooms for this thing to just break even, right? And then there has to be even more if I want to be able to afford to bring speakers along, or I'm otherwise, it's just going to be me speaking. It's going to be more of a vacation, right? And so I'm talking to the person who's setting this up, and she's like, Oh, we you'll get that many people. And I'm like, I don't know if I will you, but I don't, but I'm telling you, Phoebe, I don't know that. Like, I can't everyone around me is like, oh my god, this is going to be really popular. I have a friend of mine who used to work at JDRF and some other places. She's like, you're this will be bigger than something the JDRF puts on. And I'm like, I don't think 10 people are going to do it. No, you'll fill it up. Listen, the line I'm trying to draw here is, why do I feel that way, in the face of everything that would seem to say the opposite. And I think it's because of little things that happened to me over the years growing up that leave me incapable of actually feeling about myself, even being able to see myself the way I actually am, or my surroundings the way they actually are. And I I agree, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm just saying, like, if you have any way to safely get out of this, I hope you take that opportunity.

Speaker 1 1:13:29
Well, that's what we're working on. That's why I said we did the farthest. Thought I'd have a better resolution, resolution, but we're getting, I think we're getting close to it. I just need to get some details. I've worked out you're doing great.

Scott Benner 1:13:42
Listen, I'm gonna let you go. This is a lot to talk about. You must be exhausted emotionally from having this conversation. Let me just throw this in here at the end for all you ladies, if you were my daughters, I would tell you the same thing I told my daughter. Every boy who's talking to you wants to have sex with you. You have to know that when it starts. And then look at every one of their thoughts from that angle, is this a loving thing to say? I thought it was when I sent my daughter off to college, I said you're going to meet some lovely people, some really kind people, nice people, but in general, you have to wonder what people's motivations are, and you really need to know them before you start giving yourself over to them, emotionally or sexually or in any other way that you give of yourself to a person, because for every great person there is out in the world, there's one who isn't they all look the same at first, you know. So you really have to like you just, I'm sorry, I know it's 20 some years ago for you, but like, there were probably signs in there where you could have been like, Why do you say that? Or how come I'm being treated this way, or like that kind of or if you had more self confidence, maybe you would have been like, I'm not going to let him talk to me like that. And again, those 1000 paper cuts, right? And now look at where it leads all these years. Later. And like you said, this happens the way more people than you think. Also it happens in reverse. There are plenty of guys who are lovely, who are out there, yes, you know, married to horror, horrifying women who are treating them poorly, too. This is not a a male, you know, specific

Speaker 1 1:15:15
trait. No, I know men loving. It's the same thing. Yeah, no, 100%

Scott Benner 1:15:21
Anyway, take care of yourselves. Do your research before you give away your Hulu. And good luck to you, Phoebe. I love that we called you Phoebe. That was like, I love that name. That's good name, yes.

Speaker 1 1:15:31
And maybe someday I'll have an update for you so I will let you know. Oh, I

Scott Benner 1:15:36
would love that you you keep me in mind for a couple of years down the road, I think people would like to know what happened, you know, and what you were able to figure out. Because I have a lot of confidence that you're going to figure this out. Do

Speaker 1 1:15:47
you? Yes, I think so. It will just be a pain, very painful thing, but we'll figure it out. Oh, it's

Scott Benner 1:15:54
going to be horrifying. I don't want to lie to you. There'll be a retrospect moment where you'll be far enough away from this horrifying part to look back on both of the horrifying parts and go. It was worth going through that to get away from that. You know what? I mean? Yeah, I think there's a, there's a Somewhere over the rainbow for you. It just might take you a little longer to get there than you hope. Yes, sir. Yeah, good for you. Okay, all right, I'm gonna let you go. Hold on one second for me. Okay?

Did you know if just one person in your family has type one diabetes, you're up to 15 times more likely to get it too. So screen it like you mean it one blood test can spot type one diabetes early, tap now talk to a doctor or visit screened for type one.com for more info. A huge thanks to the contour next gen blood glucose meter for sponsoring this episode of The juicebox podcast. Learn more and get started today at contour, next.com/juicebox if you're living with type one diabetes, the after dark collection from the juicebox podcast is the only place to hear the stories that no one else talks about, from drugs to depression, self harm, trauma, addiction and so much more. Go to juicebox podcast.com up in the menu and click on after dark there, you'll see a full list of all of the after dark episodes. Okay, well, here we are at the end of the episode. You're still with me. Thank you. I really do appreciate that. What else could you do for me? Uh, why don't you tell a friend about the show or leave a five star review? Maybe you could make sure you're following or subscribed in your podcast app, go to YouTube and follow me or Instagram. Tiktok. Oh gosh, here's one. Make sure you're following the podcast in the private Facebook group as well as the public Facebook page you don't want to miss. Please do not know about the private group. You have to join the private group as of this recording, it has 51,000 members in it. They're active, talking about diabetes, whatever you need to know. There's a conversation happening in there right now, and I'm there all the time. Tag me. I'll say, hi, hey. What's up everybody? If you've noticed that the podcast sounds better, and you're thinking like, how does that happen? What you're hearing is Rob at wrong way recording, doing his magic to these files. So if you want him to do his magic to you, wrongway recording.com, you got a podcast. You want somebody to edit it. You want rob you.