#780 Bold Beginnings: Treating Low Blood Glucose

October 30, 2022Scott Benner

Bold Beginnings will answer the questions that most people have after a type 1 diabetes diagnosis.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 780 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Welcome back everyone to the bold beginning series today Jennifer Smith and I are going to be talking about treating low blood glucose levels. At some point, in this episode, you're going to hear me tell Jenny that oh, this is the last one we're recording, but I might have made a mistake, so there's more coming. Anyway, you'll see nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan, or becoming bold with insulin. Remember that while you're listening, please. If you have type one diabetes and are a US resident, or you're a US resident, who is the caregiver of someone with type one, can you please go to T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox and complete the survey. Just join the registry complete the survey takes fewer than 10 minutes. Absolutely HIPAA compliant, completely anonymous. Super simple answers to type one diabetes questions you already know the answer to your feedback helps other people living with type one, t one D exchange.org, forward slash juicebox.

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I'm gonna hit record Jenny to tell you this little preamble bit that I normally would have said ahead of time, but what we're done, you and

Jennifer Smith, CDE 4:28
this is the last one we not yay, I should say, Oh no, we're done.

Scott Benner 4:32
We're done with the bold beginnings, then we will move on to the long list of things that I have to do with you for next year. So but I'm gonna throw a little curveball in here. So you and I were going to talk about insurance. And then we were finished but I'm going to bring somebody else in to talk about insurance. Cool. So because otherwise it would just be you and I you know talking about our experiences with insurance which might not have answer some of the people's questions.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 5:01
No, I think that's great. Because I think there are quite a number of people that definitely know more about the navigation. And I think in terms of this topic, it's more how to really nudge yourself into insurance and get what you need and get to be able to talk to the right person about it. Yeah. So I think that's great.

Scott Benner 5:24
Yeah. So you and I would have done, we would have had fun. And I would have told stories about yelling the F word into phones to get art and things. I can do that with someone else who can also hit the technical sides of it for us a little awesome. So instead, you and I are going to add our very last episode to the bowl beginnings series together about how to treat low blood sugars. Oh, right. Because you get diabetes. And nobody says to you, hey, you might get low. And the low might be slow. And it might be fast, and it might be harsh, and you might be dizzy. They just say if your blood sugar gets low, eat 15 carbs, wait 15 minutes. And then it

Jennifer Smith, CDE 6:07
might respond really fast. Or it might not resolve for a couple of hours. And you're thinking, Where did the food go? So,

Scott Benner 6:17
so I so I want to kind of talk through a number of scenarios. And I know, I know, I'm dropping this on you out of nowhere. And of course, is that is that anything new? No. But I don't have any notes whatsoever. Like we've been doing bold beginnings off of people's questions. So, you know, we might have gotten lazy because we're like, oh, we don't have to drive this conversation. I'll just wait and see what this person said.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 6:37
Well, I'm sure there are probably lots of questions that have come in about low blood sugars.

Scott Benner 6:42
There may have been but they were not. They were not called together for me for the situation. So we're just going to fly by the seat of our pants, which I think will be fine. Not like before. Alright, so let's think about this. Your newly diagnosed, and I guess the first thing we can consider is that you might be honeymooning, still true. All right. So if that's happening, if you're getting help from your pancreas that you don't expect, you might see protracted I saw somebody online the other day whose kids blood sugar was like low all day. And she's like, this has to be a honeymoon because like we're not doing anything different than we've done in the past. So I guess if you're MDI, and you start experiencing low blood sugars, that seem like they're being I guess, impacted by your pancreas, still, you can't cut off your your Basal insulin, because you've probably shot it already that day. Correct. But you could start limiting. I don't know, would you

Jennifer Smith, CDE 7:47
limit your Bolus insulin? Right? Right, or you could look at for that day, making your insulin to carb ratio, more conservative, you know, if you're floating around at a ratio of an in honeymoon, when kids and even some teens might be a one to 30 ratio, right? You could suggest one to 45 or one to 50. Or right if you know that you're floating, pretty stable when there's not food introduced, but the stable is low and you're having to give it a little bit of carb to keep it from like dipping, then it would be the Bolus is that would be the easiest to adjust in that day. And in looking forward into the next day thinking, this might be what it is. You could downplay your basil that day. Whether it's morning or evening time dose, you could take it down a little bit, and see if then the next day floats just slightly higher, and leaves you without having to add so much extra carb

Scott Benner 8:55
to treat. And on the day that you get surprised by it and your basil is already in. You can kind of feed the basil a little bit for the day. Yeah, right and bred out and spread out carbs to cover the timeline. But so this is where you need to understand the difference between like a faster acting car but a more sustainable impact, right. And so if you're being drugged down constantly over hours and hours and hours, a couple of skittles might stop it for a minute. But the minute you bounce back up again, and this extra Basil is there that you don't need you're gonna get drugged back down again. So you need foods that are slower to digest. Right? You start you start reverse engineering your problems from diabetes and using your problems as solutions right like, right if you ate pizza that might take that might sit in your system for hours and hours and hours impact you so what a great opportunity to have pizza a little bit of pizza or what are

Jennifer Smith, CDE 9:54
pleading some proteins with some carbs. Right. You might want to treat if you're done hoping or lower already. If you do, then knowing what you just said, you want some sustaining power after that to not drop yet again, you could do something that incorporates some fat and protein in it to hold things level because again, the other consideration that if if it is a honeymoon based, like drop in blood sugar, it could be that anytime your blood sugar does nudge up from what you treated with simple sugar, it could be that your betas are also like, Oh, look at that. There's a rise in blood sugar. Let's give some help. And it doesn't really know that you've got Basal injected, that's also there.

Scott Benner 10:39
That's C you know, isn't that interesting that you brought that up? It didn't occur to me that I've always just thought of it is like you're getting help from your pancreas, but your pancreas seeds the carbs and attacks them while the insulin you've learned the manmade insulin you've put in is also drawing your blood sugar there. Oh, wow. So you have dumb insulin and smart insulin working at the same time.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 11:01
Correct. And common time for that in honeymoon is overnight for a lot of people actually, where they may have corrections that work pretty well in the daytime, despite them being really tiny, you know, miniscule amounts of correction. But I've got person after person that says I can't correct unless my blood sugar's 300 At night, because if I correct with just a minor half unit of insulin, I'm sitting at like a 60 blood sugar.

Scott Benner 11:30
In this reason we're newly diagnosed people.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 11:33
Correct. It's specifically more honeymooning. I mean, you can even see it on nights where blood sugar is going up. You don't correct the high blood sugar because you have the hindsight to know what's coming. Blood sugar could hit 202 20. And it downplays in your wake up in a beautiful number. That's, that's not injected Basal that did that. Your body helped you?

Scott Benner 11:57
Yeah. Okay. So that's one kind of low, you could experience now another one might be activity, right? I'm trying to think of I'm trying to put myself in a newly diagnosed person's situation, right? Like, they go back to their life, like I have diabetes, diabetes isn't gonna stop me. And then they go play tennis, and then their blood sugar falls really quickly. There we need fast working sugar, correct something that's gonna hit you very quickly, and stop this freefall. So if you're in a freefall, for whatever reason, you can't eat. That's not the time to have a slice of pizza.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 12:36
That's not the time to have peanut butter cups, the slice of pizza, the nacho meal breaks, not

Scott Benner 12:41
because that's because you're going to keep crashing before it has an opportunity to start digesting and to stop you. You're looking for simple sugars. I mean, in emergency situations, I know, I know, people don't seem to talk about glucose tablets anymore. Like they've become persona non grata, right. Because they taste achy,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 13:01
they're not the greatest. I mean, they are they are okay. I think the greatest thing about them for me personally, is that I am never going to over treat with glucose tablets. Right? I mean, they do their job. They're doing the job that I want them to do. But they're not like a bag of I don't know, licorice, like licorice. I like black licorice.

Scott Benner 13:23
So you might be like,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 13:25
easy to keep eating with a low blood sugar.

Scott Benner 13:27
Well, that is one interesting thing that there's a plus for for glucose tablets, you will you won't eat them for fun, that's for sure. No. Gel. I mean, I don't even know Do people carry that still, they should write it,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 13:40
we should and or it's easy, especially if somebody needs to help you. Because you can just get it into kind of the gum line and sort of massage it in it. It does work really quickly. So if you don't love the taste of glucose tablets, the glucose gels might work really great. There's a nice liquid glucose that I just heard about two that I really liked. Okay, so

Scott Benner 14:04
but, but in general juice boxes, people are gonna use Skittles gummy bears stuff like that. Right? Correct.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 14:11
Exactly. But the another good thing as you bring up glucose tablets, glucose, or dextrose is the simplest form of sugar, right? So your body doesn't have to go through this breakdown of the structure of of sugar if you will. And so it gets absorbed really fast. So if you're looking for candy specifically, you really want to look for candy that has glucose or dextrose as one of the first two or three ingredients because it's going to have the fastest impact on a low or a really quick drop that you want to stop.

Scott Benner 14:45
Yeah, the timing so super important because I know a story about a person. I won't say their name, but they're an adult. And diabetes for a long time felt themselves getting low knew it. ate a bunch of carbs passed out And then just turned back on when the carbs hit them. They were just like, hey, I'm back. And so so there's an it's an example of having the timing wrong. Like you're falling at a certain degree of speed or rate of speed. And you need that sugar to come in, and to slow like a parachute almost to parachute that that number fall down and to stop it, you know, what a nice level sponsor don't go too low. So things need to work the way you need. I mean, that really is the message of this episode, right? Like if you're one if you're 120, and you're wearing a CGM, and you see this gradual fall, and you look back over at 90 minutes going down, oh, geez, like I Bolus for this meal, it clearly looks like it's too much insulin, I'm going to get low a half an hour from now. Well, there, you could just add some more carbs to your meal or have a couple more bites. Correct, you might stop that. But if that same 120 was falling quickly, you're in a different scenario, you need to use different carbs,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 16:02
you need to use quicker, exactly the simple carbs on a quick drop. If you've got a gentle sort of glide down something that's a little more complex, like crack, you know, something like peanut butter crackers, I hear a lot kind of get used, because there's a little bit more to the cracker with the peanut butter added to it, right. So something like that could use it down. But if you're really, really dropping, then sugar,

Scott Benner 16:30
yeah. And you have to, in the beginning, it'll be hard not to over treat a low. But that is a skill you need to learn. Because otherwise, the bounce comes and then you're like, I don't know what to do. I wish you have that fear from you've just been low. You don't want to Bolus like you get caught in that, that balancing rhythm. You don't want to be in that. So maybe you'll learn at some point to look at your situation and say, half a juice box here. Or, you know, take a couple of sips just have two Skittles, you know, I say to people all the time, just because you open the bag, doesn't mean you have to eat all of them. Right? Yeah, just eat what you need.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 17:07
All right, which is also why those little tiny bags, I mean, this is a popular time of the year for a lot of people to end up stocking up on simple car, because we have Halloween coming up. Whether you celebrate it or not, it's a great time of the year to find really little packets of somewhere between eight and maybe 15 grams of carb, simple sugar, Candy really prepackaged. So the whole bag of Skittles versus the tiny little packet helps you to contain things a little more.

Scott Benner 17:40
And if you're not lucky enough to have a CGM in the moment and you're just leaning on your, your finger sticks. How frequently do you tell people to after they think after they've identified a low or felt it and treated it? How often do you stick your finger and look, I find myself. You know what I mean? I use a lot more test strips in that moment than you do sometimes for the whole week

Jennifer Smith, CDE 18:05
you do but you can expect that even simple sugars going to take a little bit of time for digestion, right? So you're really not going to see much shift. If you do a finger stick, confirm your low, treat the low and five minutes later you're doing another fingerstick you're probably not going to see much of a difference, right? So that's where old school was that 1515 rule. 15 grams, 15 minutes while you might not need or take 15 grams to treat this low that you have. Waiting about 15 minutes to retest will give you enough information to say well I treated it. It doesn't look like it's come up but it hasn't also fallen. So that should give you enough to say it's not dropping. Clearly, digestion is happening. Well, let's give it another 15 minutes and test again.

Scott Benner 18:56
Yeah, you know, I have two thoughts. So one of them I'm going to make a note about and then the other one I'm going to say if you are wearing a CGM. Sometimes it will not register as quickly so you can see like a like, Oh my God, my blood sugar is 50 You know what I mean? And you take a bunch of carbs and and then there's this way to look at the arrow with the Dexcom at least I don't know how it works with libre, you'll you're stopping a low blood sugar, let's just say it's 60. And it's the arrows diagonal down and you take some carbs in and the next reading is 55 and the arrows still down. And then all of a sudden, the arrow will like sometimes disappear. Like almost like the algorithms like I don't know what's happening right now. But the number stays the same. Or sometimes the number or the number will get lower, but the arrow changes. And do you know what I mean by that? Yeah. And so your

Jennifer Smith, CDE 19:56
whereas if you were testing in a look then it said 55 with an eight Build arrow down, you've treated it. And now you can see it has a horizontal arrow, but the number is reading like 51 or 50. And you're thinking, Well, what that really indicates is the system has found a stability, even though the number has slightly nudged down yet, it's not dropping, what you've done is actually making some impact overall. So it's not really time to treat with yet another like whole box of juice.

Scott Benner 20:30
It's so weird. It's a weird moment because the CGM is a little behind. And what you did with the carbs is maybe more in the now, but you can't see it. And so there's like, there's like multiple things happening at once that the technology has, has difficulty showing you. But you can see that something's happening. And so that's when that's when I say to myself, Okay, now this thing looks stable. And we've gotten to, you know, readings in a row that say 50. But I want to know what's really going on, because either the CGM seems confused, and I didn't do well. And we're lower than we think. Or we're higher than we think. And I don't want to treat more, that's the perfect time to do a finger stick to me absolutely have to write

Jennifer Smith, CDE 21:14
Absolutely, especially for those. Those numbers where you're treating I say at a number less than 60. Honestly, if you're varying at all and decision about whether I should do a finger stick or not. If you're less than 60, and you've treated it and the numbers on the CGM just don't necessarily add up. Or you're mentally not quite like with it enough with a low blood sugar like that. Just do a confirmatory finger stick, because at least that's going to show you real time right now. Where is your number? Yeah,

Scott Benner 21:53
yeah. And I know we're trying not to over treat. But if you get caught and you don't know, like, this is the time you're going to hear me say I'd rather I'd rather just Hi. Yeah. Because Because what you're saving yourself from or saving another person from. We don't talk about very much like in diabetes in general, even on the podcast very much like it just doesn't get talked about very much. You're talking about becoming incapacitated. You're talking about having a seizure. You're talking about death, like you're talking about. There's a lot that happens between 40 and then I don't know how low anybody's ever been right. You know, but while they were still alive, I saw Arden's blood sugar. I saw Arden's blood sugar 22 once on a finger stick when she was really little, and she was okay still. And I was just like, keep eating, eat. Yeah, II keep going. And then all of a sudden, it was 30. And I was like, Oh, I might have tested moving, I might have tested her blood sugar 10 times in seven minutes. I was like, but But I mean, it's the truth, right? Like you, you have to learn to do this because you use manmade insulin and your blood sugar is going to get low. I just don't care who you are, it's gonna happen. So you need to know how to handle it or how to handle it for somebody else. And you need to know how to handle it without causing a problem in the future. Whether that problem is a high blood sugar, or calling an ambulance, like right, you're it's not. I guess we don't talk. It sounds scary. It's probably why people don't talk about it, huh? Yeah, yeah. So

Jennifer Smith, CDE 23:27
it's absolutely it's it's more around how to treat. There's not even an emphasis on like the overtreatment. It's just treat it. But why, right? Why is it so important to recognize a low sooner than later or deal with it sooner than later? Or stop it from happening? sooner than later? Because there is that scary factor of? I don't know. I don't know why some people can have a blood sugar. I might the lowest I was ever was 26. Yeah, I don't, I was fine. My mom actually thought the number had to be bad. I mean, it was really old. I mean, this was like 1988. So clearly, the meters were not what they are today. But she's like, that's got to be wrong. You feel good, right? We were camping. Did it again, it was like it was pretty much the same. Just like you need to eat. Here's the juice. Where's it? Where's the regular soda? You know, why could I be there? And fine when somebody else could be passed out, have a seizure, need an ambulance need assistance? When their blood sugar is 61 and low. Right? Right.

Scott Benner 24:36
Yeah, everybody's going to be different. And so so let me let me say a couple things here. I use a football analogy because it's football season, right? You can't like the reason the offensive linemen are these giant blobs of people is because they're trying to stop this insane force that's coming at them. Right? Correct. You can sometimes put carbs in and you I made such a mistake earlier in the day with insulin or, you know, there's just so much power on the side of the insulin. It's like the carbs aren't there, like you might as well not have anybody blocking because it runs right through them. Right? That's a panicky situation, the first time that happens to you, where you take in a juice box, and realize that it's, it's like you didn't drink it. If you're enjoying the Juicebox Podcast, and you would like it to remain free. Please support the sponsors. Today's sponsors are Dexcom G six dexcom.com, forward slash juice box, and Omni pod. Both the Omni pod five and the Omni pod dash are available at Omni pod.com. Forward slash juicebox. It's a hard moment, you know what I mean? Because this is what you know is going to work. And now suddenly, it's not working for some reason. And you're like, Oh, God, what do I do? You can't find yourself in those scenarios. Wondering what's in the cabinets? Or what's in my bag? Or what do we have in the car, like you have to be prepared? Correct all the time. Just, you know, anywhere you are. There are fast acting carbs. I don't give a crap. If you don't use them for six months. I don't care if they get stale, throw them out and replace them. If the juice, you know, in the juice box, get some spongy from being in the car in the heat. Throw it away, put another one in there. Like just don't. Don't ever find yourself in a situation where you're like, it'll be okay.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 26:30
Right? Yeah, right. I mean, It's fall now. and I were just like rotating through. We don't really have summer jackets, but like into fall into the winter jackets, we're kind of rotating them into the mix, right? So I bring up my winter stuff. And absolutely in at least like one, if not two of my like fall into winter jackets. Their old, nasty bad glucose tablets, like they've gotten the like crystallized sugar like dots. And like, if I had to, I would still use this. So like that juice box that's like nasty and squishy. If that's all you got, you use the squishy juice that

Scott Benner 27:09
spread them around your life, like your grandma's spreads around her reading glasses, do you know what I mean? There's just a pair in this room and over here, you need to be less ready, you can't be it's a weird scenario, you can't be scared, you can't live your life scared. You don't want to live your life with a 200 blood sugar because you don't want this to happen. Because also, that's not any safety from not being low. Right? As a matter of fact, that might put you in a situation where you're a little more frequently, but but I like to say about diabetes, that you don't learn these things. You don't prepare for these things so that you can stop a problem. The problem is always going to sneak through somewhere, it's never going to be where you think it's you know, because if it was where you think then you'd get ahead of it. Right. So you have to be ready for when it happens. And then the last bit of this is, if all else fails. I mean, please be carrying glucagon, you know, with you like not, it's in the cabinet in the kitchen. But we don't take it, you know, anywhere I left it in the car when I went pumpkin picking like it needs to be with you. Right. Yeah, exactly. So well, this is a fun conversation.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 28:14
Yeah, it's a harder, I think it's a harder conversation than you think about before. Because there's a lot of there's a lot more on the back end of not taking care of a low well enough. That is actually scary. Yeah, and it doesn't get talked about. We always try to like smooth it out like not to worry about it so much and whatnot. But in order to not really worry about it. Preparation is needed to have to have things in your purse or your car or your backpack or, you know, at your friend's your friend's house that you go to all the time or whatever it is. I guess it's like being a girl scout or a Boy Scout. Be prepared how

Scott Benner 28:57
to be prepared. Yeah. You know, when Artem was younger, she spent her whole day in one classroom, right where she went to art or something like that. So she had a bag and she took it with her when she hit middle school in high school, and she started having English in one room and math in another room and that started happening. We put supplies in each room. Like we didn't say to ourselves like she should be humping this stuff all over the place constantly. Let's put a little here there was a couple of juice boxes in every room. You know, it's interesting when you learn about your management to how come we're always restocking the English class. And never the math class. What's the time Yeah, it's the time of day we're doing something that's making a low around this time of day. It's actually an interesting way to learn a little bit about your management is where am I grabbing my supplies from? You know, do you think that do you think that every load is different? Because there's there are questions here from people that are like you know, after I stop a load with a fast acting, should I put a protein in every time time afterwards, but not necessarily.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 30:02
Yeah, no, I mean, the idea. Again, it's kind of an older concept. It's sort of like the 1515 rule, it's 15 grams, 15 minutes, and then you essentially may need to follow that up with a snack. But again, there's lack of enough information about why the idea really was simple carb will typically help keep your blood sugar up for about 90 minutes, give or take. Now, again, a variable in the picture is why was the low there, if it's excess insulin, you may actually need to treat with more than what you thought you would need. But the other idea is that the simple carb to keep your blood sugar up is it's meant to sustain you for that time period, before you might eat again. So if you treat a low blood sugar at, let's call it three o'clock in the afternoon, but you don't typically eat dinner until seven or eight o'clock at night. Lows can bring on another low they can. So if you treat the low, but there's something in the picture that's keeping you lower, could be honeymoon, it could be excess insulin, it could be more movement in the day, whatever. You may actually for longer than two hours before your next meal, it may be beneficial to have a handful of nuts a spoonful of peanut butter a piece of string cheese boiled egg, whatever it may be. The the idea there is that that's a little bit more sustaining and or a snack that might have a little bit more complex carbs to it long with some protein to sustain things. So you're right every low is not the same right?

Scott Benner 31:44
Art in tried art is a college right now. She tried to use a following blood sugar as a Pre-Bolus for her lunch. But it just didn't like she didn't time it well enough. So like at 60. But so listen, for anybody who's listening. Here's how I did it. Arden's in another state, she's 13 hours away. I'm able to look at her phone and see where it is. Right. So I use Find My Phone to see. Okay, she's in the cafeteria, so at least I know she's right. So now where she should be near food. I text her, Hey, what are we doing about this? Because she's got this like 70 that became 65 pretty quick. And then I looked at the arrow. And then I looked at the line and I thought this isn't stopping. Like this is not a low that's going to stop right like this is this is going to be negative 15 If we don't do something about it, right. What are you doing? I'm trying to like Miss like, you don't I mean, I don't want to be up harass Johnny. And at the same time, I don't need her dropping dead. It's College. Like I'm trying to find the middle. I'm like, Hey, what's up at nothing. Now I know she's with the food. So I'm like, you see this? Nothing. Art and I really need to know you're okay. I'm eating now. I'm like, okay, like the food's going in your mouth. Yes. But Jenny 6060 560-560-5550 5540. I'm like, Are you eating now? Yes, I'm eating. I told you. I was eating

Jennifer Smith, CDE 33:12
what are you eating lettuce leaves?

Scott Benner 33:17
What's happening? Like, you're eating like handfuls of sugar, right? Like, and so, but so I texted or test her. So then I sent a text to test her cognitive, like where she was cognitively. Right. And I'm just like, how do you feel? And she's like, I feel fine. And I'm like, Okay, have you been eating for a while? She said yes. So I said, Okay, I got it. There's food in there. It's working. The CGM hasn't caught up yet, but I had to stand there. for like three go rounds. That CGM watching that 42 Just sit there knowing she's not really 42. She's in the mid 60s already. I know. I know this. But I only know this from

Jennifer Smith, CDE 33:59
you. Because you've lived with her. You've dealt with it long enough. You knew the questions to ask. You knew how to get her to respond and whether or not she was going to answer you the right way. And that it takes learning

Scott Benner 34:12
Oh, it's yours. Because otherwise I would have been like drinking juice. I don't care if you don't drink the juice. I'm bringing you home. I'm not paying for college. Like I don't you know, like, you know, because the number because we've done everything's over come home and live in this room for the rest of your life. Because the because the number was so scary, right? But I was able to pick together enough information. I swear to God, that CGM. One more time went from 42 to 66. And I was like, Okay, I was right. But I'll tell you, you're like, oh my god, what if I'm wrong? You know what I mean? Like, I don't want to be wrong, but I might be the next thing I think we should bring up about Lowe's. Because we're in a we're in an algorithm world now right control like you on the pod five that thing that Medtronic makes i What is it? Which one is that? Let me learn the number Medtronic, don't they have an algorithm right now?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 35:03
They do. They've I mean, they've had an algorithm for a long time I use as a their CGM. Right. And I don't know that their, to their algorithm have a name likes me pod five, six. So their new their new one in the ISC. The number is what you're looking for 770 G. And I know someplace I don't know if it's here. I don't think it's here yet. 780 G, I know is available in some places in Europe already. But seven, seven D 780. Yes,

Scott Benner 35:34
I just I feel like they buy they buy ads for in pen. So I figure I, I owe it to them to learn the name. I just can't keep saying the thing that Medtronic has they're gonna be like, How about how about if you're not the podcast that we sell the embed on anymore? Like? Alright, so the 770 G, right. So yeah, so whether it's one of those algorithms, we all live in a new space now, where the algorithm sees a low coming, and it takes away and takes away and takes away your basil and takes it away. But it doesn't, it isn't always going to get it right. And so you might end up treating a low after a prolonged amount of time of not having any insulin. And then your blood sugar shoots back up very quickly, because there's nothing to stop it. And what does the algorithm do when it sees the higher number gives you more, it gives you more insulin, sometimes sometimes can happen. That's what I'm saying. It can happen that's a better way to and when that happens, here's what I know, for certain, yeah, gonna be low again later. Because because, you know, the, you know, when you're taking, you know, sugar in for a low, if you take in the right amount, you've been getting on a regular, you know, on a regular pump or on an MDI, you've still been getting your Basal the whole time. So you're, you're correcting that low more in real time. When you do it right algorithm, the algorithm thought it was going to stop you, it does not expect these carbs. And now you jump up and it Bolus is the number or it's pushing basil at the number that the other night. I guess I should have listed lupus one of those Arden had Jenny, I think it was around her period, and she was tired. She's rundown. And she's getting her period. At the same time, we had this whole day where she was a little too low. And it persisted into overnight. And so around eight or nine o'clock, we fixed the low and I said listen, take these carbs, go into the settings and shut off micro bolusing without carbs. I was like where this thing is gonna hit your your correction. And it's gonna push it back again. And she did that we went through the night really nicely. It was a nice learning experience for her because then she brought it up the next day. She's like, should I put the microbuses back on again? And I was like, Yeah, everything looks good now. So but anyway, you have to be aware of that. So I mean, I don't know what you do. Me.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 37:53
I mean, there are other you know, for other systems, you can certainly also navigate something like that. If you've treated a low, you know that you've overtreated it, but the system is going to give back eventually, and you know that it's going to be too heavy, similar to your scenario there. The other systems do have, I guess, adjustable targets or different targets that would be higher. So then it would adjust less, if you adjust the target up and say, Hey, I'm aiming for this now. So as my blood sugar is going up, it's okay. You don't have to give me as much because I want to be higher

Scott Benner 38:30
anyway. So like an example with Omnipod five, you might tell it to shoot for the higher range and that's correct. And yes, with I'll tell you what, in that exact scenario with Arden I said, I asked her what did you take for the low? And she's like, Oh, I had gummy bears. They hit her really hard. So I was like, Oh, crap, she's gonna jump straight up. But they don't hit her and hold her. They hit her and then they disappeared on her. So I was like, oh, no, no, don't let that thing Bolus again. Yeah, anyway, this probably all sounds much more confusing than it will be you have diabetes for a few months. It's all gonna make sense. Don't

Jennifer Smith, CDE 39:05
maybe know they will. Yeah. There's still some things I throw my hands up. And I'm like, oh, clearly, like Venus is not in the right place in the orbit of something because I I just I don't know right now.

Scott Benner 39:21
You're maybe just said Good. Luck is what I heard.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 39:25
That is so not the case. Not the beginning of this is what you want to hear. Yes. Forget the maybe. I shouldn't say maybe should be like the point 1% of the time. You know, it doesn't take much to learn, especially with CGM is in the mix. These days. It doesn't take much to learn how much is needed. And as you were sort of, you know, talking into the effective algorithms, you'll see, well, gosh, I was used to using this much. I probably need to use a quarter to a third of what I used to use to treat it when I didn't have system that was helping me You know,

Scott Benner 40:01
I saw a woman yesterday say, I don't know the exact numbers, but the gist of it was on control IQ I needed 14 or 15, carbs stop below and on Omnipod five, I don't need four or five carbs to stop below. So interesting that interesting. I found that incredibly interesting actually. So

Jennifer Smith, CDE 40:16
especially system to system, given the fact that they're both doing a given take of insulin, but they are, they are very different algorithms. Yeah. So that it does make sense.

Scott Benner 40:27
Alright, so check me on this. You need to know how to stop a low they're going to happen. You're not going to stop a low from ever happening. You need to understand the different impacts that these different carbs are going to have on your low blood sugars. After a while teaching yourself to stop a low without creating a high is a great tool to have. Yes,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 40:46
if you it will happen. Yeah, yeah.

Scott Benner 40:49
Oh no, you're gonna rebound high until you until you learn how to do it in a real panic situation. Screw everything else save your life. Correct. And that's it right? Have glucagon with you have snacks with you. Don't go anywhere without ways to treat Lowe's, the people who love you and are around you should understand how to help you if you're unconscious or unable to help yourself.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 41:13
And I think another thing as you mentioned, caregivers or loved ones or you know, whoever. I think within that for Lowe's is recognizing the like what you mentioned about cognitive when you're doing kind of a check with Arden the people that are around you enough, should be able to tell whether you're responding or or talking or whatnot, the way that you normally would. And in the case that your CGM is off, or you aren't using a CGM or technology, somebody who knows you well should be able to kind of chime in and say, Hey, are you okay? You know, and don't be angry at them for that. It's just a, it's a checkpoint to be able to keep you safe. So

Scott Benner 42:02
yeah, also for I guess, caregivers, low blood sugars could leave you with people who are difficult to YES to help, right? They could become combative, or and that's a real concern, especially as they become adults. And I There's one story that sticks out in my head all the time of this woman whose husband got low, and she just wasn't big enough to overwhelm him to do what he needed, you know. And she had to call 911 because of that. But yeah, I mean, the people around you just need to know. And people should be following you. If you have CGM. Like I don't know if liberi has follow like Dexcom does, but yeah, it does it. Okay. Arden is in a suite with girls. And the girl in the next room follows her on Dexcom Oh, wow, that's awesome. He only has a 55 alarm and nothing else. But we explained to her I'm like, if this thing's beeping, please go find Arden. And make sure she's okay. That's all. Yep. And it just, I don't know, especially for adults living by themselves or kids off at college, like somebody, you know, has your back because it also not everybody hears the alarms to like I had a low last night. It was only like 65. But I was sleeping. And in my sleep. I thought did I hear something? Like that was all I thought, right? And then I'm like, I woke up and I looked, and I was like, huh, yeah, I'm gonna watch that for a second. Because to be honest with you, it was a real slow drift. The loop had been taken basil away. I'm like, I think this is gonna bounce. Like, I think it's okay. I don't want to wake her if it's not going to be okay. And it waited and waited and waited. And then I was like, Oh, it is gonna be okay. It went back up again. But I talked to her this morning. And I was like, you know, you're a little last night. She has no idea. But since she had that seizure more recently, if you listen to her last episode, she will tell you about it. If she has a she experiences any kind of a quick fall while she's sleeping now. I don't know. I don't know how that rewired her brain but she's boom. I'm up. I drank juice. I'm good. Hey, Dad. I did this. Do you think this is enough? Like she never used to wake up. And now I know she's feeling the fall while she's sleeping right now. Which has only happened twice since she's been away. But anyway. Alright, Jenny. Did we know it? We did it? I think so. Yeah. Yeah. For us then. Yay for us.

Unknown Speaker 44:24
Awesome. Thank you. Oh,

Scott Benner 44:25
I guess we should say something like thank you for listening to the bold beginning series and I hope you found it like helpful.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 44:31
Absolutely. Especially in the beginning when everything is so new. So

Scott Benner 44:35
let us know if you want us to add to this series. If you go back and listen to it and find something that should have been in there that wasn't please send me a note. And Jenny and I will we'll add it if we think it needs to be added. Absolutely. Thank you. What are we doing? What are we best here so I

Jennifer Smith, CDE 44:53
got nothing else to know right? But just hang around

Scott Benner 45:02
Well, as I mentioned at the beginning, we've already found more stuff for bowl beginning. So this was not the last episode. Let me thank Omni pod and Dexcom. While I have your attention on the pod.com forward slash juice box, see if you're eligible for a free 30 day trial of the Omni pod dash, or if you're interested in the Omnipod, five, for full safety, risk information and free trial terms and conditions, you can also visit omnipod.com forward slash juicebox. And of course, thank you to Dexcom for being a longtime sponsor to the podcast dexcom.com forward slash juice box see blood sugar in real time, the speed direction and the number right there on your iPhone, Android, or on your Dexcom receiver. There's so much more I want to tell you but I'm on about day seven of this illness that I have and to be perfectly honest, editing the show together almost killed me. So I'm gonna go take nappy, and I'll see you next week with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.