#1215 Cold Wind: X Ray Tech

June 4, 2024Scott Benner

"Lindsay" is an X Ray Technologist with diabetes.

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Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends and welcome to episode 1215 of the Juicebox Podcast

gonna call today's guests Lindsay. She is an x ray technician who has diabetes, and she's going to tell us a little bit about what she sees in the medical field. From her perspective, please don't forget that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan or becoming bold with insulin. When you go to cozy earth.com Don't forget to use my offer code juice box to save big at checkout that's juice box at checkout at cozy earth.com When you place your first order for ag one with my link, you'll get five free travel packs and a free year supply of vitamin D. Drink ag one.com/juice box help out with T one D research at T one D exchange.org/juice box go over there complete the survey. That's all you need to do you have to be a US resident who has type one diabetes or is the caregiver of someone with type one, you'll be helping yourself helping the show and helping everyone else living with type one T one D exchange.org/juice box go fill out that survey this episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the Dexcom G seven made for all types of diabetes Dexcom G seven can be used to manage type one, type two, and gestational diabetes, you're going to see the speed, direction and number of your blood sugar right on your receiver or smartphone device. dexcom.com/juice box. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the contour next gen blood glucose meter. Learn more and get started today at contour next one.com/juice box. This show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries G voc hypo penne Find out more at G voc glucagon.com. Forward slash juicebox. Don't forget everybody. This is a cold wind episode. So we've changed the name and the voice of the person that I'm talking to. All right, Lindsay, what is your background? workwise? What do you do for a living?

"Lindsay" 2:31
So I am an x ray tech, technically, it's a radiologic technologist, if you want to get specific, there are many different modalities, but I just do

Scott Benner 2:41
X ray. Okay, and what kind of education do you have to have for that.

"Lindsay" 2:46
So you have to have an associate's degree, they go back and forth, if it needs to be a bachelor's, because it's actually three years you have to have a year prior to starting the program in prerequisites. And then it's two full years of clinic and classes. So but it is an associate's degree, and then you have to take a national registry and pass the boards in order to get your license. And then many states most states, I think it's like 45 states in the US require a state license. So it's just taking that national license and registering it with the state.

Scott Benner 3:21
I say, Do you have the accreditation to read the X rays or what is your exact job?

"Lindsay" 3:27
So I do the procedure, the exam, I take the x rays, in order to read the X rays, you have to be a doctor. So a radiologist reads any imaging modality and you have to go to medical school and then go through a residency and radiology and then do additional multiple years in order to read them.

Scott Benner 3:49
I know a doctor who told me that a buddy of his is a radiologist. And it is the fattest job in the world. He said he sits at home, waits for images to come reads them, writes up the notes puts them back in it's his whole life.

"Lindsay" 4:06
Yeah, so there is a few companies that do it digitally. It's becoming more and more especially with the pandemic, they let them have more licensing, openness in order to do it from different states because just like medical practice, in order to do a home health visit with somebody that's in another state, you have to be licensed in that state. I say interesting. So there are some companies that I'm not sure how they go about this and how they do it. But like because our doctors don't want to work overnight. We send it to an off site company and they're specific companies that do that and have the radiologists reading from home or wherever. But there is also procedures that radiologists do in the hospital as well. So we do have radiologists on site as well. Yeah,

Scott Benner 4:59
no, I I'm just saying there's like a job now like to work from home like you imagine being a doctor making a doctor salary and not having to leave your house or talk to patients, right?

"Lindsay" 5:09
There's always a joke about radiologists being mushrooms because and not having people skills. There's several specific doctors that were like Yep. Well, you see why there are radiologists because they sit in a dark room looking at computers all day.

Scott Benner 5:22
I can't believe I didn't get the mushroom reference right away. As soon as you said darkroom, I was like, Oh, why did I not see that? That's nice, though. Maybe they're fun guys.

"Lindsay" 5:31
They are? Absolutely. All right.

Scott Benner 5:36
Well, please, it's hard to mess. It's a ham fisted dad joke from 1973. What made you well, we'll hold on a second. Do you have type one diabetes? Are you the parent of someone with type one? Neither.

Unknown Speaker 5:47
Really?

"Lindsay" 5:49
How do you find yourself to me?

I have type three see?

Scott Benner 5:54
Oh, they snatched up your your business right out of there. How did you lose your pancreas function?

"Lindsay" 5:59
I have neuroendocrine pancreatic cancer and they removed up 30% of my pancreas. I have six remaining tumors that were watching I get treatment every month to they've been stable for seven years. The thought is eventually I'll have the rest of my pancreas removed. But for right now it's stable. So we're keeping it as long as I can.

Scott Benner 6:21
Lindsay, can you hear the conspiracy listeners right now?

"Lindsay" 6:24
The X rays got her right. I actually got it before I started X ray. Ah, yep, X

Scott Benner 6:31
rays are let's be clear with people though, like X rays or give you cancer if you're not shielded from them. And you get them too much, right? Like it's a lot of radiation. Am I right?

"Lindsay" 6:40
So yes, and no good. Clean film X ray, like just going and get a chest X ray or an abdomen or you break your foot and you get foot X ray? is very, very low dose. Okay. Why don't you 30 years ago, when it was film, it was higher. Um, now we know more about it. And with the switch to digital, it's like a quarter of what it used to be. And you get radiation every day of your life from existing. So our bodies are actually very good at recovering from small doses. There's a thing that they called time distance and shielding. So the longer time you're exposed, the more risk, the more exposure in a small time, the higher risk. But a chest X ray, if you go on a six hour plane flight, you actually get more radiation than you do in a tube you chest X ray, interesting, I appreciate you spend a day at the beach, you get more radiation than you do in an x ray. However, when you go to the other modalities, like CT, that is actually hundreds of X rays, taking it in succession. So that CT does give you more radiation. And you do want to be careful not to get too many CTS too close together. You get like one a year your body should be able to recover from that. But if you get one a week, you're gonna get cancer from that.

Scott Benner 8:01
No kidding. My lovely moan when you said day at the beach wasn't because I was like, oh my god go to the beach. And this is how much radiation I just like, oh, maybe we should just go to the beach today. That'd be amazing. Yeah, yeah. Okay, great. not warm enough for that yet. But keep going. I'm sorry, this is fascinating. Tell me as much about this as you, as you know, and you would like to tell me, yeah,

"Lindsay" 8:19
if you go into the O bar and have certain procedures done, sometimes you get some X rays in that they use that we call fluoroscopy, which is Live X ray, it's pulses of X ray. So it's not continuous. Like in CT, it's like you can set it for like three pulses per second per second, or 10 pulses, depending on what they're looking at and how clear and crisp they need it. But usually it's within a few seconds. They do it for a few seconds at a time. So you don't really get that much from that mammography uses X rays. But that is it's more than a plain film X ray. But getting it once a year, it's pretty low compared to a CT. Nuclear Medicine uses a different type of radiation than what you use an x ray. And that can get up to higher doses. So those are things that you want to be careful about getting in succession, and your doctors really should be paying attention to that. And every single different nuclear medicine test is going to have a different dose. And the nuclear medicine technologists are really dialed in to how much dosing I know a lot more about it than I do. And then an MRI doesn't use radiation that uses magnets so you don't get any dose in that. You just get claustrophobia. Exactly. And ultrasound is not radiation, it sound waves.

Scott Benner 9:42
Okay, those are the ways those are the ways we image people right now modern medicine.

"Lindsay" 9:47
Exactly. And every single one of the modalities looks at something different. So it's not like you can say, oh, MRI doesn't use radiation. So that means I never want to get a CT I always want to get get an MRI, but an eye MRI looks at different tissues than CT does. So if your doctor is ordering one or another, it's probably because that is what is best for that specific,

Scott Benner 10:07
right? I can't get I can't get an MRI for a broken ankle.

"Lindsay" 10:13
But it's not going to be it's going to be more expensive. Your insurance, you're gonna have to fight your insurance for approval, because the CT is better and while they'll see the brake, it's not going to be I mean, it's just more involved

Scott Benner 10:28
the values with the actual x ray for that for that injury for example. Okay,

"Lindsay" 10:32
exactly there they would look more like muscle and tendons and things like that in memory.

Scott Benner 10:37
Okay, let me ask you a couple more questions about your own health then we'll move on to your job. Sure. You said there are some tumors left that they're keeping an eye on what does that mean? If you take insulin or sulfonylureas you are at risk for your blood sugar going too low. You need a safety net when it matters most. Be ready with G voc hypo pen. My daughter carries G voc hypo pen everywhere she goes because it's a ready to use rescue pen for treating very low blood sugar and people with diabetes ages two and above that I trust. Low blood sugar emergencies can happen unexpectedly and they demand quick action. Luckily, G vo Capo pen can be administered in two simple steps even by yourself in certain situations. Show those around you where you store Chivo Capo pen and how to use it. They need to know how to use G Bo Capo pen before an emergency situation happens. Learn more about why G vo Capo pen is in Ardens diabetes toolkit at G voc glucagon.com/juicebox. G voc shouldn't be used if you have a tumor in the gland on the top of your kidneys called a pheochromocytoma. Or if you have a tumor in your pancreas called an insulinoma. Visit G voc glucagon.com/risk For safety information. That contour next gen blood glucose meter is the meter that we use here. Arden has one with her at all times. I have one downstairs in the kitchen, just in case I want to check my blood sugar. And Arden has been at school, they're everywhere that she is contour next one.com/juice box test strips. And the meters themselves may be less expensive for you in cash out of your pocket than you're paying currently through your insurance for another meter, you can find out about that and much more at my link contour next one.com/juice box contour makes a number of fantastic and accurate meters. And their second chance test strips are absolutely my favorite part. What does that mean? If you go to get some blood, and maybe you touch it and I don't know, stumble with your hand and like slip off and go back, it doesn't impact the quality or accuracy of the test. So you can hit the blood not good enough, come back get the rest without impacting the accuracy of the test. That's right, you can touch the blood come back and get the rest. And you're gonna get an absolutely accurate test. I think that's important because we all stumble and fumble at times, that's not a good reason to have to waste a test trip. And with a contour. Next Gen. You won't have to contour next.com forward slash juicebox you're gonna get a great reading without having to be perfect.

"Lindsay" 13:24
So I have, I think six tumors right now I get a monthly injection it is every 28 days, right into my butt. It's a deep subcutaneous injection, and it's a subnet of statin analog, which is a hormone that fills the receptor sites on the tumors and does some kind of magic. It is actually off label for tumor suppression. But it's actually supposed to be used for symptom control. But because it whatever it does, it keeps the tumors from growing. That's why I say I've gotten seven years without any growth. And so they'll just I get scans every year to watch the size of it. And once it either symptoms get too bad for me to control or size gets too big, then they'll take the rest of pancreas out.

Scott Benner 14:17
What are the symptoms? Oh,

"Lindsay" 14:18
it depends on what kind of tumor it is. So I have several. Right now I don't know of any hormones they're producing. But as you know, the pancreas produces insulin. If you have an insulinoma your blood sugars will go well. If you have glucagon, Noma, then your blood sugars are gonna go high because it's producing too much glucagon. You also get some rashes. You can have acid producing tumor, so you end up with heartburn. Well, of course my mind is going blank. I actually am pretty well versed in all of the different hormones but

Scott Benner 14:51
you are here I'll ask you a question while you kind of reset a little bit. Yeah, okay. So they give you the injection of the injection for the lack of a term that is technically correct. Keeps the tumor happy. And in its current state, so it doesn't grow or or act up. Is that about right? Yep. Okay. Otherwise you can see any number of those other things that you just brought up. Yep, that can make you feel all different kinds of ways. My question is, why did they take some of the pancreas but not all of it? Originally, because

"Lindsay" 15:22
I didn't go to a specialist. Prior, I just went to a local hospital. And that was the recommendation because I didn't know any better

Scott Benner 15:30
when they're done with that procedure, your type three, see, at that point,

"Lindsay" 15:34
I wasn't actually it was several years before I was the medication that I use suppresses my pancreas. So even though it's suppressing the tumors, suppressing all of the tissue, so my agency has slowly gone up slowly over the years, when it was about 6.5. I tried to get a CGM. And so I could start watching and seeing what was happening. And I was told I wasn't diabetic enough. And so to just keep fingers sticking, I would do good for a few months, and then my numbers would be pretty good. And so I would give it up until I started feeling crappy again, and I'd start finger sticking again and watching what I was eating. And then, about a year ago, I was just really fatigued, really sick. I went in for my shot by a doctor did routine bloodwork, which he did about every three months, and my fasting blood sugar was 363. And they didn't even call me I just happened to see it on the portal, when I went to send them a message. And so I started finger sticking and the next day, my fasting glucose was 430. And so I went to the walking clinic, they took my blood sugar and said, You need to go straight to the hospital right now. On the way my PCP called me back and said, Oh, no, I'm gonna save you an ER visit. Don't do that. I'll put in a prescription for you come to my office, we'll do some blood work. That was on a Friday afternoon, Monday, I still didn't have the results or any medication. Wednesday, they finally gave me a prescription for insulin. And I went and picked it up. And there was no pen needles. So it took until Thursday before I could get a prescription for pen needles. So it was almost a week after my

Scott Benner 17:31
senior doctors, like let me save you an ER visit and then didn't get back to you with the things you needed for six days. Yep. Perfect. Yeah. So today, what's the reasoning behind not just going in there and cleaning out the pancreas and getting rid of the tumors?

"Lindsay" 17:46
I just talked to a surgeon and I told him, You know, I'm insulin dependent. Now I'm on a pump. And he says that yes, well, I do have to control my blood sugar's it is pretty controllable, it's pretty easy for me to handle. If my pump gets occluded in the middle of the night, I can just take it off and go back to sleep. And I'll be okay. In the morning. If you takes my whole pancreas, I will be struggling a lot more, it'll be a lot harder to control. And I'll have to be very much on top of it. And because of all of my other medical issues, he doesn't want to make any of it more complicated and thinks that we should continue to wait.

Scott Benner 18:26
What do you think? I mean, because there's the trade off, right? Like you could basically remove your cancer or have the balance of help from the pancreas. Yeah, what do you think's the best thing for you?

"Lindsay" 18:36
I don't know, I am going back and forth. Because the reason I have this cancer is because of a genetic disease, and which my dad, my grandfather, my great grandmother all died from all from metastasis, which it right now, I am stage one. It's only in my pancreas. And if I could have it taken out and know that I will never have a metastasis, I would do it right the second year. However, they know that even people that have it taken out, it's possible that those cells have already left and implanted in the liver, and just aren't big enough to see. So it's possible it's already spread. And even if I take it out now, it won't save me.

Scott Benner 19:16
I say I'm sorry to ask you this. But how old were your family members when they passed away? They

"Lindsay" 19:21
lived a pretty full life. My dad was 72 and actually died from COVID. My grandpa was 78. My great grandmother was 32.

Scott Benner 19:31
Oh, great grandma. So a couple of generations ago. Yes. You got the magic juice. Now they're, they're popping in your butt. So yes, yeah, exactly. Okay. I appreciate you going over all that with us. So we understand your your context, and your perspective, because I think that's going to like help me pivot into this next bit. Right. So, yeah, you're on a cold wind episode. So obviously, you're here to talk about what you see working in healthcare. My first question is going to be based on the thing You're about to tell me about what you witness at a hospital. Does that impact your ability to be comfortable with your care for your tumors? Like, do you not see doctors the same way I would if I just walked in off the street and I was like, I'm here, I need help. You're the magic guy in the coat, tell me what to do. Absolutely,

"Lindsay" 20:16
I am angry on a almost daily basis about the fact that these people are supposed to be the people helping me. And they don't care. They don't care about my symptoms, they don't care about my quality of life. They just want to check their boxes to say that they saw me in there doing what they should they order my scans, they order my blood tests, I frustrated and angry on a regular basis, about how I know what I need, from being in support groups, being online, doing research, talking to other people dealing with it, who have doctors, who are on the frontlines of creating new treatments. And knowing that there are things out there that could make my quality of life better. But I'm not allowed to give it to myself, because I'm not a doctor. Only a doctor can prescribe that only a doctor can order that. And I spend multiple days a month at doctor's appointments in tears, begging people to

Scott Benner 21:26
help me. Do you think that that perspective of they don't want to help me? Is that coming directly from your experience with your doctors, for your disease in your problems? Or is it because you see them treating other people? You then kind of juxtapose that on to what your doctors must be thinking while you're talking to them? Does that make sense?

"Lindsay" 21:48
It does. I think in my my very specific situation, I have multiple rare issues that they don't see on a regular basis. I think that I demand a higher quality of life, I don't accept, just because I'm sick, this is how I have to feel. And I want the newest, most aggressive treatments there are in order to live the fullest life I can. And even when my doctors do want to help me with that, a lot of times it's outside of their comfort zone, because they haven't done it before. And it's easier to say it's not available, or I don't know enough about that to feel comfortable than it is for them to risk it and do something and get in trouble.

Scott Benner 22:46
Yeah, wonder where their sense of exploration is? You know what I mean? Like, I mean, listen, not for nothing. But Lindsey, you've got a number of people in your family who have died from this thing. You've got six tumors on your pancreas? Like, what's the like, what are we hurt and trying something? You don't? I mean, that is

"Lindsay" 23:05
exactly how I feel. Yeah, exactly how I feel. My PCP is great, and wants to help me. But she admits that a lot of this is outside of her scope. She is a general practitioner. And this is complex, and not something that she learned. Her job is to send me to the other people that do. So

Scott Benner 23:26
the one person you're able to talk into kind of like paying attention to your bigger ideas and concerns is powerless, and the people who are powerful? How do they treat you when you bring it up?

"Lindsay" 23:37
So I actually have had an appointment with a world renowned endocrinologist at one of the top teaching and research hospitals in the US that specializes in one of my issues. He seemed very kind he was very, how are you today? What's been going on? I know it's difficult to get here. You've traveled far, what can I do for you? So I was very hopeful first walking in and talking to him because he did seem very concerned and like he really wanted to help. And as soon as I brought up anything that was outside of what the book says, what The Book says was, that's not helpful. That doesn't really work. He told me that he has patients with this disease that are doing perfectly fine running multimillion dollar companies. And so he's not sure why I'm struggling so much. It must be my diet and exercise or

Scott Benner 24:35
the diet and exercise answer is for everything. They'll say it about anything.

"Lindsay" 24:43
And you're gonna laugh at this one. So I also I had cancer on my adrenals as well. So I had my adrenals removed. So I'm adrenal insufficient. It's not adolescence, because it's not autoimmune. But it's basically the same acts are similar, right? Yeah. So I was asking him if He knew anybody that would do cortisol pump. And he told me that infusion pumping is a matter of choice. And it's just what you want. It doesn't actually help even for diabetics on insulin pumps, it doesn't give you better control.

Scott Benner 25:17
Wait, he said an insulin pump doesn't help you more than MDI. Yes, speaking about diabetes. Yes. And so I mean, can you inject cortisol? You can, but not as specifically, and particularly with measurement and stuff like that. Yeah,

"Lindsay" 25:33
in order to do that, you have to have a doctor order some specific tests, because your cortisol isn't a straight level like insulin. Yeah, there's a range that you want to keep it in. But cortisol peaks at certain times of the day, and then tapers off. And so trying to find that balance, you need somebody willing to do serial tests throughout the day in order to find the correct dosing. And he's just like, well, the average is between 15 and 25. So you go ahead, and the lower you're on the better, so reduce it until you don't feel well. And then when you don't feel well stay there. Or if you don't like this, or you don't feel this, then try this. And it's like, no, it's just up to me just to figure it out. Do

Scott Benner 26:19
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"Lindsay" 27:47
I honestly I don't know I left really upset. And I am not sure where it's coming from. But the thing that pisses me off the most is his name is all over the treatment recommendations that teachers medical art teach in medical school, I say that's what doctors are taught is the correct treatment is being as on them. So

Scott Benner 28:13
everybody's being taught with this with his lens. Yes, yeah. Now, in your job. You sent me a thoughtful note here about this. You said? Can I just I'm gonna say what you said. Okay, you were to remember it was Oh, dear. Okay. Health care behind the scenes working in a hospital. Health care workers are human like everyone else. They have different personalities and different ways of going about treating people as well as different experiences that affect their ability to treat. And I was like, Oh, I wonder if this person doesn't want to come on and talk about like the other side of this conversation. And then you said, in the end, it's a business. And they are just a single entity of a larger system. So as much as they want things to be a certain way the system is against them. So okay, so they're operating inside of a system, they don't have a lot of autonomy, the larger goal is to make money and keep the company open every day unnecessary exams are ordered. Now, do I think those doctors are ordering them to increase revenue? No. But the system is set to cover your ass and support unnecessary testing. So I hear this argument all the time in these episodes, and I find it fascinating because to me, it's parsing words, right? Doctors order these tests, and they're unnecessary. But it's not them trying to make money. It's the company they work for trying to make money, but they know what they're doing. They know they're ordering tests they don't want the answer to but that the protocol tells them to answer. So I mean, complicit is it. I mean, at the very least you're complicit I understand if you can't go against your employer, but it's not like they're like Mary Poppins and the employers the Big Bad Wolf and Mary Poppins doesn't know that the wolf seat and the pigs, you know what I'm saying? Exactly. Okay. All right. There's a difficult balance to be a good provider and not dissolve into despair. Discuss Dr. Death and nurse Colin and how the system they worked in didn't disclose or remove their license. They ignored and covered in order to save their hospitals from negative press, the biggest information that I want to share is that patients must be part of their own, be advocates basically be involved, be heard, you need to feel valued, and understand their medical needs to get the care they deserve. So let's talk about all this for a bit. Okay, let's start with unnecessary tests. What do you mean? What do you say?

"Lindsay" 30:38
So if you come in with a complaint that I have a cough, alright, so I work I work in a hospital setting right now. And if somebody comes into the ER, they walk in, I said, a cough, let's go chest pain, you walk in with chest pain, the triage nurse, in order to get through and get results as fast as possible to find out to make sure you're not having heart attack is going to put in a list of things that's, you know, that they need to run some bloodwork a chest X ray, you have chest pain, you're getting a chest X ray, because I'm not a nurse, I don't know all the things that they put in, but then you get put into a room. Now, the order for chest X ray is put in an F, sometimes it gets made ready for me to go take the chest X ray before the patient's even seen a doctor, okay, in order to try and expedite things and get some answers. However, if you're having a heart attack, the chest X ray isn't going to help very much. Yes, you can see the heart shadow, you can see the size of the heart, you have congestive heart failure, you might have some fluid around it or an enlarged heart. So it is useful. But I've seen multiple times that I go do a chest X ray, take the patient back, and in the notes later find out that the patient fell and hit their ribs. And it's not actually chest pain. It's actually their rib. And so they didn't need any of that blood work. And instead of a chest X ray, they actually needed a rib X ray. They didn't tell the triage nurse all of that because they were just trying to get the basic information. Yeah, in order to get triaged into a room.

Scott Benner 32:15
Okay. So sometimes the the pace of how it works ends up putting people through testing that they don't need if somebody could have triage them better. Yep. Okay.

"Lindsay" 32:24
There's also multiple times that a doctor will put in an order and we'll go check with them. And they're like, We have low suspicion, they fell, they said that their hip hurts now, or their butt hurts. Now, we all know it's not broken, because they're walking on it. But because they're in the ER, everything has to be thoroughly checked out and need out. And in order to 100% verify that they don't have a broken hip, they have to go get a hip X ray. So

Scott Benner 32:49
is that an unnecessary test? Or is it necessary based on society, the system that somebody's going to come back and see you later if you get it wrong? Like it's a little bit of it like that kind of cya. It

"Lindsay" 33:01
is the way to make sure that you are thorough, even though it's mostly, I mean, you could say it is necessary that it's due diligence. But I think that if doctors didn't have that protocol, there's a lot of times that they would skip that. And even if you go into your PCP, if you're complaining about something, and they're not really sure what it is, and they think it's because you're overweight, and you need to eat better, and exercise in order to get you to shut up. They'll just order some tests, just so they can say that they've done something, even though it's not a test that you need. It's just something so that they can say until you well, we looked, we did blood work and everything came back. So see, it must be because you need to diet and exercise.

Scott Benner 33:43
You think that there are some times when there are tests that are run, just that they can shut you up and tell you the thing they want to tell you. Yes. Interesting. And maybe this perspective that they have is what stops them from actually doing like, kind of extraordinary or things like like you're asking your doctor for it, because maybe they just have this experience so often, where the person comes and going, I know what I need, I know what I need. And they're just like a like, you know, you're in a Facebook group. And the Facebook group said that, like it's not real. I went to medical school, even though I went to medical school 35 years ago, and I don't see the need for that. And so, because I wonder if it wasn't for insurance, and it wasn't for people's propensity to sue each other. I wonder if doctors would be more in inclined to just go what you want to try. Yeah, fine. I don't care. Let's try. Absolutely, yeah.

"Lindsay" 34:34
If it wasn't if there wasn't the fear of malpractice and ambulance chasers, I think it would be a lot better. Yeah.

Scott Benner 34:42
People who listen No, I've been taking GLP for weight loss for like over a year now. And I had a real plateau on seven and a half milligrams of zinc bound. And it wasn't even just a plateau like my my weight was creeping up and then going back and it was just I was like, starting to vacillate between like in a fight. pound range, which had not happened the entire time I was on it. I go to a good doctor. I go, I tell her that and she goes, Oh, we'll move you up to 10. That was it just up to 10. Now I'm two pounds lighter. Three days after starting 10 milligrams, most people would get told something not helpful, not accurate. This doctor is saying, Look, I've watched people use this stuff all day long. I see more weight loss at 10 and 12 milligrams will move you to 10 and see what happens. You're tolerating the medication, fine, who cares? You know, it's another couple of milligrams right a week. And I get great results right away from talking to a person who's not afraid. And who is paying close attention to the thing that they're doctoring. They have, like, an intimate understanding of it in a modern sense. But that's not most people situation, like most people are so busy. Like they're part of the mill at this point. Like you don't think of doctors that way. Right? But it's a machine and now they're just a cog in the wheel. Exactly. Yeah. Right. And so they're just trying to do the thing and keep it moving. If you

"Lindsay" 36:04
go in and say, Well, I'm in this Facebook group, or I'm in the support group, or I read this on WebMD, or Dr. Google. I mean, every time you go to WebMD, it tells you, you're gonna die, right? So you come in with all of these expectations and ideas of what it could be. And you say that to the doctor, and I understand why they're getting taken aback and step back a little bit. And it's like, oh, yeah, cuz you read it on the internet, you know, better. And I fully admit that I have been wrong in my assumptions. When I have gone in, there was one of my surgeries I had, I hadn't had a period for like five years because of a pituitary tumor. And I had my adrenal removed. And in the hospital, I started my period. And I started freaking out and called the nurse and was like, I'm bleeding. I'm bleeding. And she just rolled her eyes and was like, Yeah, you started your period. Everyone does it. And I'm like, No, but I don't, I don't, I'm telling you, something's wrong. And it was it was just my period. But you

Scott Benner 37:10
had five years of experience this. It's not, it's not unreasonable for you to not think that was happening right then and there.

"Lindsay" 37:16
And being scared about complications of a surgery that was just pretty invasive. So I mean, I've made mistakes, too. And I've definitely, and so I get why they're on the defensive. I see people every day come in, because there has been hurting for three years. And today was the day they decided to come in and have it looked at instead of talking to their PCP, and things like that. And so I think that you had hit the nail on the head complacency, getting in the day and day groove gets overwhelming. Yeah,

Scott Benner 37:51
I would imagine I listen, I have a family friend who has been an ER nurse for seven years. And in the beginning, their travel nurse, they would actually go to places where there was like more crime because they were looking for like to learn more like gunshots and knife wounds and stuff like that, like really critical stuff. And now seven years later, I was talking to her the other day, and she's like, I gotta get out of nursing. I can't do it anymore. Like, that was like seven years. And she's like, cooked, you know. And so I take that, and I and I'm very respectful of it. And at the same time, it doesn't help you, or me or somebody else in the moment when I'm in the ER having a real problem. And I'm, and I'm faced with a nurses cook. And they're just like, I don't care. Like just follow the checkboxes. I gotta get out of here. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, I asked her, I was like, what happened? She goes, you don't see the people like people anymore. And I was like, she goes, you just you lose your empathy at some point. And she's not on purpose. You know what I mean? It's not like you give it up. It's just how much of it can you possibly take, so I have a ton of compassion for them. But you have such an interesting perspective. Because you work in the setting. You see the stuff happening, right? You see how the doctors are doing what they're supposed to do, or what they're told to do, and how it's not always valuable. But yet, you're on the other side as a patient, and you know what it's like to be ignored by one of those people. So it's interesting, because I don't know if you realize this, but in a half an hour, you are fairly successfully arguing both sides of the argument. I

"Lindsay" 39:24
absolutely know that and it is absolutely insane to me. How many times in a day in an eight hour shift. I judge a patient before I see them. You had started to ask me earlier how I got into this field. And it was because I was a patient. I had an MRI, and the tech was short, and I was 19. I was by myself. I was scared. I didn't know what to expect. The Tech was short and rude, and it made the whole situation worse. And then the next similar I had a couple of years later, the tech was kind took an extra three seconds to explain what was going to happen to me, told me everything is going to be okay. And it alleviated my fears. And it was so easy. And I decided, I'm going to be that person for other people. I see them on their worst day, I'm going to be the comforting word. I'm going to tell them. It's okay, we got you. And that's why I got into it. So the fact that I do still that I do it on a regular basis, will read a patient notes before I go get a patient judged the patient, like, oh, my gosh, why are they here for the seventh time in two months? You know, we have regular frequent fliers, and oh, that person again. And then I get down there and realize, oh, yeah, they are human. And they just want somebody to help. And I'm being the asshole that I hate. Yeah,

Scott Benner 40:56
that's something being a person is complicated. Right? Well, this is interesting lens, isn't it? I like this. I like this perspective. Because you're you're also by the way, and I mean, this not poorly. But you're also at a level in the hospital where I bet you're a little invisible to doctors, too. Yeah, yeah. So they'll be in front of you. And you get to say it. Yeah, I thought that, okay. So

"Lindsay" 41:21
one of the things in my know was, how difficult it is, and how you have to lose some of your humanity in order to continue to do this. And because you do see people in awful situations on a daily basis, and if you took all of that home with you, you would implode, you literally can't save everybody, you can't fix it for everyone. And so you have to compartmentalize things, you have to shut yourself off, I have been in a trauma room with somebody dying on the table. They had a LUCAS device, which is a CPR device, it's like, you know, electronic compression machine, with the patient coding. They're intubating. And the doctor and the nurses and myself are in a conversation about how the director just left and I wonder who's going to take their place it like completely, like not even thinking this is somebody's family member dying on this table right here.

Scott Benner 42:26
You're having a workplace water cooler conversation around this event. Cuz the the machines doing the compressions. You've done everyone's done everything they can do. And now we're just waiting to see what's going to happen. And you guys are basically like, did you guys see the they have turkey sandwiches today in the cafeteria? Yeah. Yeah. About that.

"Lindsay" 42:44
Yeah. So we're waiting for his start heart to start pumping by itself again, so that I can take my X ray and check the intubation tube. And the next sentence after Oh, so and so left, I wonder who's going to replace them as All right, well, we need to get the family in here and explain that he's not gonna make it through this. We can't keep bringing him back.

Scott Benner 43:03
And that person past? Yes, yeah. But your point is, and I think it's an obvious point, but worth repeating. You can absorb all that as a human being over and over and over again and not lose your mind. So you disconnect from it.

"Lindsay" 43:18
I do recognize that if somebody lost their dad and brother and husband that day. And that is sad. And I am sorry to them. But I mean, yeah, I am a little emotional about it right now. But in the moment, completely cut off on emotional. I'm not thinking about it, because I still had to go take X rays for another four hours. I still have to see other patients. Yes, they still herself.

Scott Benner 43:46
Yeah, yeah. No, you you can't go on carrying the weight of everyone's world on your shoulders. That would be That's insane. I don't think any reasonable person's asking a doctor to do that. But you can't disconnect yourself to the point where you're not doing your job anymore. You don't mean or you're not hearing people when they're saying the things. For example, you're saying in your doctor's appointment, that you're being told in response, like no, sorry? No. When I'm off having a different experience with a doctor who's listening to me, am I watching my life exponentially get better, because I have a good back and forth with it. By the way, this is not a doctor who would just blindly say yes to anything I've asked. I've asked questions before to and she'll look and go, I don't think you should do that. And I'll go okay, and then I won't do it, you know, like or like that. I can see that that might be helpful. And it wouldn't be harmful if you tried. So go ahead and try. Like everything's not going to work out. But the things that aren't going to hurt you if you want to try them, try them and you need a person there to help you understand what's the stuff that's worth a shot and what's the stuff that it's not worth the risk.

"Lindsay" 44:51
Yeah, yeah. So another example that I have so I without my adrenals I don't die once electrolytes. Well, I tried drinking electrolytes. But I was having trouble, I had a ton of fatigue. So there is a medical spa where I could pay $150 to get IV fluids. So I started doing that once a week for three months, and my life significantly changed my fatigue. I went from not being able to work 40 hours a week, to working 60 plus hours a week, not even 40 hours a week sitting at a desk to back in the hospital running around the hospital not sitting down for eight hours. And I couldn't have done that without IV fluids. It literally is sailing. Yeah, how it does that much? I don't know. But it did. I have tried to be like, Oh, it has to be a placebo effect. I'll just go a few weeks. But if I go more than two weeks, I am back on the couch. And well, I was paying out of pocket $150 a week. That's not sustainable for me. And I have insurance that I pay 1000s of dollars to get I meet my out of pocket deductible of $7,000 By February, every year.

Scott Benner 46:03
And for $600 a month. They do almost anything that the formulary covers. Yeah, like they would do all that but not the thing that you're actually finding valuable. So

"Lindsay" 46:13
well the leave uncovered that if I could just get a doctor to order it.

Scott Benner 46:16
Oh my god, seriously key? Yes. Okay, go ahead. So

"Lindsay" 46:19
I asked my PCP and she said, No, she wasn't comfortable about it. She didn't understand the benefits of it. And so she wasn't comfortable. And I said, but look, I am going to do this, whether you prescribe it or not, but by you prescribing that I will save some money. And she said No, it's my medical license. If you came in here and told me that doing cocaine made you feel better. I wouldn't give you cocaine. So you can expect me to do do whatever makes you feel better.

Scott Benner 46:49
Wait, she correlated cocaine and acetylene? Yes. Oh, what an order. A great word Smith. That one was

"Lindsay" 46:59
when I saw my oncologist. A couple months later, he went, Oh, that's gotta be expensive. And I went it is he goes, how about I order it for you? I said, Thank you. So I'm getting it covered by insurance now. But it took months.

Scott Benner 47:11
Did you ask him for cocaine too?

"Lindsay" 47:14
No, I didn't. I should next time. I know. He

Scott Benner 47:17
definitely would give it to you.

"Lindsay" 47:18
I'm not sure.

Scott Benner 47:20
I mean, based on your other doctor's

"Lindsay" 47:21
opinion, since he gave me saline, why wouldn't you give me?

Scott Benner 47:26
I swear to God, if someone said that to me, I would just I'd start banging my head on whatever hard surface I was closest to. And then I would say out loud, you're looking idiot. And then I would leave? Oh my god. So anybody can become a doctor. I think it's important to say that

"Lindsay" 47:46
these get degrees, right? These are

Scott Benner 47:48
you're gonna say these nuts. For some reason. I was like, where's this going? Did you go back and tell that doctor that you got another doctor to do it?

"Lindsay" 47:59
No, I'm sure she gets the notes. I haven't seen her again.

Scott Benner 48:03
Oh, I would I would call her on the phone and tell her. Yeah, I'd be like, Yeah, I found a compassionate person. And I'm taking the $600 a month and I'm putting it in the bank or buying food with it or whatever. Well, I mean, the way the world is right now getting a sandwich.

"Lindsay" 48:17
Yeah. Went to the grocery store once and got half a cart. Yeah, I think we

Scott Benner 48:21
live in a world where 20 $25 an hour is the new like minimum wage for what everything costs, you know? Yeah. Anyway, what are we not talking about that we should have so far? Do you have a from work story that if you told it that people listenings balls would shrink to the size of raisins and run back up inside their body? Are you more of a big picture? Yes.

"Lindsay" 48:45
So I mean, the whole reason that what I thought I was going to come on and talk about was, I mean, we've covered most of the points that this gives. But when I first got my license, I

Scott Benner 48:57
Lindsay masterfully because I'm an amazing host. And I've stepped us through this in a very entertaining way. I don't know if you've noticed or not. But oh, thank you. I'm just teasing. I just needed a second take a drink. That's all gonna be take a drink and then I want to hear this guide you you go down that road. Let me hear it.

"Lindsay" 49:16
Alright, so when I first got my license, I actually worked for a physician owned company that had different divisions and I worked for the radiology division. So I worked directly for the radiologists. It wasn't actually taking x rays. I was actually working behind the scenes doing scenes doing administrative work, making phone calls, connecting them to doctors making sure orders were correct and things like that. And this is kind of when I realized that medical is just another business. I got to know those radiologists very well. They know my medical history. I had amazing radiologists that sat outside the CT radiologist cave when you watch TV and use the hungriest Anatomy, the neurosurgeons sitting in the CT waiting for the patient images to come up. That's absolutely ridiculous. They don't walk in, they don't go in those rooms at all. It's a tech. So I actually had a radiologist know, I was getting an exam. And so she actually did Wait, not in the CT ring, but like at her desk right outside and sit down with me and go through the images, I got a very good relationship with several of these doctors. And because I knew them, so Well, I knew that they meant the best, they wanted to do the best for what they were doing, they are trying to diagnose and take care of things. However, they have a business to run and to make money. And the more money they make, the more they all get paid. And they do a lot of great things. They do a lot of charities, charities and stuff. But ultimately, that's what it boils down to. And they would run reports monthly, and wait the different exams, because you can read an x ray a whole lot faster than you can read a CT and body CT a lot faster than you can read a brain MRI. So they wait the average time it should take to read each of those studies, and then pull reports on how many each radiologist completed and tell them this is how many man hours you completed last month. And then they would take all of the people and they would average it and anybody that was below it would have pressure to work faster. Yeah, to go faster, you took more than 30 seconds to read an x ray, that's not good enough, you need to get pumped out more numbers. And there's this constant pressure on them to do more, get more complete more. Because if we're not completing all of the exams, then we're gonna have to hire another person on which is going to reduce the revenue that everybody else is making. Sure, if you want to do less work, and everybody wants to do less work than we can bring on 10 more employees 10 More radiologists split the work between them, you can work less hours, but you're also going to cut your paycheck in half, right? So there's this constant pressure and actual arguing between some of the radiologists that other person's not pulling their weight. Well, I read 359 hours worth of exams last month and you only build 250. So why are we making this thing? Right?

Scott Benner 52:19
Yeah, and keep up or they're gonna hire somebody else that is going to cut in all our money.

"Lindsay" 52:24
Yeah. So that brings it to things getting skipped things getting missed, because you're in a rush, because you've been staring at a screen for seven hours without a lunch break. Because, you know, and every those styles and personalities come into it. There's one radiologist that wants you to code down the image as small as you can to barely get the anatomy because anything extra they're now responsible for, and then other people that want you to get a full picture.

Scott Benner 52:53
And that's the difference between somebody who wants to do a good job and somebody who wants to keep their numbers up, right?

"Lindsay" 52:59
Yeah, I believe they all want to do a good job. But there's outside pressures pushing on them. And after years and years of the same, you've got to hurry up, you got to hurry up, you've got to get more the more we get done. Oh, now this hospital is bringing on another MRI, which means we're now going to have 27 More exams in a day that we have to read. So now you have to squish that in before we get another radiologists.

Scott Benner 53:28
So it's funny because I don't want to see people lose their jobs. Right. But is there not going to be a waiver, like aI kind of thing can read these images much better in the future than a person can? Or is there something about it that needs a human touch?

"Lindsay" 53:43
So there are actually some, especially with breast imaging, they do have some AI software that goes through and will like highlight areas of concern. There will always be a human person over looking at. But there is you know, there's that constant caveat of might miss it too. How long is it going to be before you start trusting that software more than your eye? Oh, because it didn't catch anything. Now you're not going to look at it with the same Yeah. attitude or it is in the works. Yeah,

Scott Benner 54:16
the thing you just described, like, I want to be clear, I don't have anything it's people making money. And doctors, you know, and they're making more than other people but I mean, God bless them. They went to college like you don't I mean, like they they're set up a business they're following the structure of how the world works. I don't have any problem with that. When you're knowingly telling people to go faster. And you know, that means do a poor job. You don't mean to do less quality work, then you have to say okay, well when we can't make as much money or we gotta hire better people are more people are that's a weird decision to make like in you know, we'll skip quality for quantity.

"Lindsay" 54:55
But you just because I played devil's advocate and like you said this whole Interview, I'm playing both sides. And they do have a quality department, they do do quality checks, they will randomly pull exams and have a second person look at them to make sure and if one person is starting to miss too many things, or if they do get a doctor to say, come back years later that something was missed, they do a quality review. And they do a root cause analysis. And so they do the things to catch the other side as well. Yeah. And so it's just they're trying to find a balance. And me as a patient, before going there, assumed that the doctor was taking as much time as they need to thoroughly go through my history and see exactly what they're looking for, and spend the hour or however long I thought it would take to look through my scan. And that's just not the case, they get a few snippets of details about while you're getting the scan, they can if there's something confusing, or if it's complicated, they can go back into your medical history and get more information. They do spend a lot of time consulting with doctors and back and forth. I'm not saying it's completely on an island. But it is not as much as I expected.

Scott Benner 56:15
Yeah, so here's where I'm going to say to you, Lindsay, that people are people, and it doesn't matter what walk of life we're judging them in, you're gonna get about a human job out of them. There's nothing wrong with that. I'm not judging anybody. But you know, there's in every possible thing that we could focus on, you're going to hear stories like this, that mean, part of the reason I started doing this, is because I wanted people to hear from doctors, from nurses from people in health care, whatever. I wanted them to hear like the truth, because people have that feeling that you started with, which is, there's like, there's special different people. And they're, it's just not true. They're not special and different. They're just people like everybody else. And they have shortcomings, and some of them are lazy, and some of them aren't. And some of them care more about money than people and some of them keep care more about people than money. And there's a mix of those people out in the world. And my point is, you don't know which one you're getting. But it's a disservice to you to always imagine that the one you're getting is the bestest one ever. And so you have to pay attention. That's where we end up saying to people, like you need to be your own best advocate. But that's also insulting. Because if I hire a plumber to change out my hot water heater, do I stare at him for six hours while he's doing it to be my own best advocate in case he doesn't sweat a pipe? Right? Like, no, right? Like, you know, watch

"Lindsay" 57:40
a YouTube video before he shows up so that you can make sure he does every step. Right.

Scott Benner 57:44
Right. Exactly. And right. But maybe that is what's happening in health. Yeah, is that people are coming in with their information. And some of its right and some of it's wrong. But ironically, some of its being ignored when it would be very valuable. by a doctor who hasn't heard about this, you know, hasn't, he's been out of school for 15 years. And now suddenly, as hard as it is to believe if you're a physician, there might be someone in a Facebook group who knows more about cortisol pumping than you do. For example, or you might be faced with a person who says, I listen, I listen to a podcast, and this guy told me I should Pre-Bolus like 15 minutes before a meal. And that might not be a thing that you would tell somebody to do. It doesn't make it wrong. And if you're not willing to dive deeper into that, to find out if the thing they're saying is actually right or not. That's where you're doing the disservice. Like I get saying what you heard on a podcast like, oh, boy, let's slow down. i Great. Like I get that if I was a doctor and someone came in and said, I heard on a podcast, I'd be like, Whoa, slow your roll. But I would just dismiss them. In less. I was so burned out that I couldn't. And are we just caught this loop. It's why I genuinely believe that you're going to see people have like personal AI assistants. And it might be for more than just health care, but for health care, and where eventually I think I think it's possible medicine turns into a thing where you go to a physician and you say, Look, I've been plugging in everything. It's been happening to me for the last two months. And my algorithm thinks this is what's going on. And then the doctor is going to be more of less of a physician. You know, a person who sits there and tries to help you figure out what's going on and more of a button pusher says okay, well what's the algorithm think we should do next? Let's try it. And then they'll they'll go over it and say, Okay, I see how it came to all this. But I think the truth is, is that you're going to be able to if you just stop on its face and think about what AI is. It's just like what's chat GPT right. It's a thing that basically has read everything that's available on the internet, and a doctor is up person who we sit in a room for eight years and try to push as much information into their head as we possibly can. Well, you can push more information into AI than you can into a person.

"Lindsay" 1:00:08
And things change, we learn about new things about the body,

Scott Benner 1:00:13
right? And doctors don't generally speaking, even those in like, in specific categories where they're like, I'm only going to pay attention to this, those people end up usually knowing more, because they're surrounded by it all the time. But once you start pulling back, like, you know, a PCP like me, what are you saying, like, they haven't been at school and 25 years, they don't know, they know what they know, they don't go home every day, and continue to read the Internet or continue to take in all the studies. Whereas you can just have this AI just continually keep training itself on new NIH articles and published data and, you know, all kinds of stuff that would actually help you make a better decision. I think you're gonna see healthcare get a lot better in the next 10 years.

"Lindsay" 1:00:56
I sure hope so. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:00:58
but here's gonna be the problem. There are a lot of people making a great living being doctors right now. And they're not going to want to see it happen. And I understand that. I genuinely do. I bet you the my guy who picked up the garbage got really pissed when the trash truck learned how to pick up the cam by himself.

"Lindsay" 1:01:14
My argument about that all the time when people say, Oh, technology is going to take jobs is, but somebody has to do the technology. There has to be somebody behind the scenes, making the algorithms, feeding the software, teaching it new things, still doing the research to add into it. It's just trading jobs. It's not taking jobs, and

Scott Benner 1:01:35
I'll give you a Yeah, but yeah, yeah. But it's like when they told coal miners, don't worry, we'll retrain you for tech jobs, you really think you're gonna take a 55 year old coal miner and teach them how to write Python? That's true. Yeah, that's not gonna happen. You have to recognize that we're not. If we're not in forward motion, then we're here forever. Yeah. And so it's a personal thing, you have to say, Oh, I'm going to become obsolete inside of my adult like money making lifetime, that's going to be tough. That's going to be bad. But instead of worrying about it, I say, I don't know, listen, it's easy to say like, we're moving towards Star Trek, like, don't just want to get up in the morning and put on your foil suit and do whatever you want to do.

"Lindsay" 1:02:13
Have them come scan you with a wand and tell you exactly what's wrong with you

Scott Benner 1:02:17
not want a magic wand. Is that what you're against? No, no. But you know what I mean? Like, like if these things in the short term are taking jobs from people think that's obviously going to happen. Yeah. But that's where you'll start getting involved in the idea of like, both things just happen, you know, maybe people won't need jobs. And listen, we could go down another road and say, Oh, then people are going to become lazy and not do anything. And but there's going to be a lot of growing pain around this. And it's going to go on for 150 years. Yeah, that's true. But in this moment, you are not going to stop the progress that this is. No and and so I think you're watching doctors as an example, just like in a lot of other jobs, you are watching people become obsolete, for good reasons. Because people can't do as good of a job as this thing's going to be able to do at some point. And, you know, that causes a lot of concern. I understand. I would also like a beach house. I don't have one, but I can see where it would be nice. It would be nice. But the point is, is that like you're not stopping this train. There

"Lindsay" 1:03:23
are people out there that are progressiveness, and I just need to find them. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:03:29
Well, that's that's always the tough part. Like me, even finding the doctor that helps me like it was not easy to do. And by the way, she doesn't take new patients. Of course not right, because she's a she's a cache doctor. And then I mean, we turn into our and it's, we're actually very lucky, I pay her cash, and then we get reimbursed like 90% or something like that. So it's not a problem for us financially. Just have to have a little money in the beginning to get, you know, to pay her until it comes back. But the problem is, is like I almost had to like crowbar myself into her practice. And once you get a good doctor like that, and they fill up with enough people, they're not out there in that mad scramble that you were talking about. Because this is a lady who's not trying to become wealthy. She's trying to help you just trying to help the people. She's helping. Yeah. And she's very comfortable and happy doing it. And so she does it. You know, lovely woman, like, I mean, I've seen her home, she's not living in ostentatious lifestyle. She's just helping, she's doing a really good job helping the people she helps. And so I think you're gonna see more of that you're gonna see more of these cash doctors split off. But then the problem becomes is that you're better doctors are going to do that. And then it's going to leave the system full of people who aren't capable of doing that because nobody be interested in paying them. And then, you know, then that maybe is where in the short term you see things get a little worse. Anyway, this has been horrible. Like every one of these episodes makes me feel horrible, right?

"Lindsay" 1:04:52
So I wouldn't mind growing up I had the respect your elders and you know a lot Just respect for other people, I had high expectations, I was the top of everything that I did. And I had the expectation that everybody else was like that. When you walk into the doctor's office, the doctor knows everything about your health, because they went to school for 13 years. They know. I mean, it's so much. So I had this expectation that I thought if I walked into the Home Depot, and said, I need this tool, that any person in that building would be able to walk me straight over to that tool, show me how to use it, tell me exactly everything I needed, because they worked in Home Depot, so they must know every single thing.

Scott Benner 1:05:36
You grew up, sheltered deer. Yeah, very much

"Lindsay" 1:05:41
so. And becoming an adult and realizing that that is not life was a little earth shattering. But also, for people that don't have a lot of medical issues. And they go to their PCP once a year for their annual checkup and say that, yep, you're good. That might still be the case, they might still feel like when they walk into the dark, the doctor's office, their doctor knows everything. Every four years, they get a cold, or a flu, and they go in and they get some antibiotics, and they're better and their doctor fixed everything like that still their life, they still have the expectation that their doctor knows everything. Anybody that has a rare disease, that actually has to go to doctors on a regular basis, starts to realize that they are just human, just like everybody else. And that this is just a job. They only have the knowledge of the experiences that they've experienced. And that's when you have to learn to advocate for yourself to learn to fight and learn the information on your own to take back right and

Scott Benner 1:06:39
plenty people go to the home store and just need a screwdriver. And the whoever they bumped into knows where the screwdrivers are. And they all leave saying, Oh, I had an amazing experience. I'm going to end on this. But this is the thing I've learned one of the things I've learned making the podcast, if you ask people about their health, how's your agency? Oh, it's it's seven and a half. I felt okay. Not bad. Also could come down, right? And you talk for a little while longer. They don't quite understand how their insulin works. They've got some shortcomings and their management ideas, blah, blah, blah. And then you ask them about their doctor. How's your doctor? Oh, I love it's great. Oh, she's fantastic. I just part of my family, like a URI one. C 7.9. You love your doctor. That would be like saying, I went got my tires changed and they put on I don't know, almost all the lug nuts when they put my tires back. And when I said how did you like your tire experience? And oh my god, amazing. Great guy. Why? Because he chatted you up while you were there. Because they had the magazine you liked in the in the waiting room? Like why? Why do you like a person who's not doing a good job for you? Well, they're great. I'm like, okay, they're great. The job they're doing subpar. But that's not how people see people over and over again. I see people do that. They say my doctors fantastic. And no, I drill down with them their cares, not good. Yeah. And I'm like, I don't understand why you told me your doctor was fantastic. They don't know any better. Yeah, they will. And then you know, and then like you said, then people who are not really sick or don't need like, care that that's ongoing. If you ask them how their doctors are gonna say they're fantastic. This is what happens. It's why you can't trust people's reviews of things. It's why people have different experiences when they get there. I just want to end on this because I always want to say this at the end of these episodes. No matter what you heard here today, you fall you break your arm, you have a pain in your chest, go to the goddamn emergency room, there are plenty of things that hospitals are fantastic at and you want to take advantage of those things. Don't become anti doctor, just pay attention and learn more so that you can be you can be more aware of what's happening to you. That's all I'm saying. And

"Lindsay" 1:08:42
take a family member with you. Especially if you're older. Have a second person in the room to listen because if you aren't feeling well, or you get bad news, you're you're shut off and you don't listen. Yeah, anytime you're able have a second person I

Scott Benner 1:08:57
agree. 100% All right. Well, Lindsey, if that is your name, which it isn't. Thank you very much for doing this. I really do appreciate it. And I want to wish you good luck with your with your medical issues.

"Lindsay" 1:09:08
Thank you very much. I want to thank you for everything you've you've done with this podcast. I've been going back and listening to episodes in the hundreds and every single episode I thoroughly enjoy. So thank you for all of the time that you put into this. You really are changing people's lives.

Scott Benner 1:09:26
You made my day. Thank you. That's very nice of you. Hold on one second. Okay.

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