#1056 Professor Holly

Holly has type 1 diabetes and is a med school professor.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 1056 of the Juicebox Podcast

Welcome back everyone. Today I'll be speaking with Holly. She's 47 years old and has had type one diabetes since she was seven. Holly is a mother, a wife and a med school professor. She even has a husband with a really interesting story. So get comfortable. And remember while you're listening that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan, or becoming bold with insulin. Would you like to save 40% off of comfortable items like joggers, hoodies, sheets and towels. Go to cozy earth.com and use the offer code juice box at checkout to save 40% off of your entire order. And don't forget the private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes a group with now 43,000 people in it someone in there just like you or someone you can help with. It's a wonderful community. You should go check it out. Last little reminder that Juicebox Podcast Pro Tip series for type one diabetes is completely remastered and available at episode 1000 through episode 1026.

This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by ag one. You can have the same delicious drink that I enjoy every morning by going to drink ag one.com/juice box with your first order. Expect a free year supply of vitamin D and five free travel packs. Get your foundational nutrition at drink ag one.com/juice box. This show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries. G voc hypo Penn Find out more at G voc glucagon.com. Forward slash juice box.

Holly 2:10
My name is Hollywood Aman. I am a mom of two amazing kids. They're 16 and 11. I'm a scientist and a professor in the med school like here in Quebec City, Canada. And I've lived with type one since the age of seven and I'm now 47.

Scott Benner 2:27
Seven to 40 years.

Holly 2:30
Yep. Okay. hope you appreciate I aged on purpose to make the math easier for you.

Scott Benner 2:34
Thank you. It's why we waited for a birthday to come. Because if you would have been like I was I was diagnosed at seven and I'm 46 I would have been like oh god, hold on. Tell me again. What do you do for a living?

Holly 2:48
I'm a professor.

Scott Benner 2:50
Okay. Your kids have any autoimmune stuff? No.

Holly 2:56
Just me. Okay, you

Scott Benner 2:58
okay? Just type one or do you have something else?

Holly 3:02
I also have Hashimotos.

Scott Benner 3:05
Taking T for? Yeah. Does that do it for you? If it seems here? Yeah. Energy is good. All that stuff? Yeah. Cool. All right. Have you been Canadian? Your whole life?

Holly 3:18
Canadian my whole life? Okay, I've lived other places. But you were born there. I was born here. I've moved around a bit. I'm not from Quebec. Originally. You can tell from my accent. Okay.

Scott Benner 3:29
Blanca. All right. Where do you want to start? I've been I haven't done this in 10 days. It's up to you. I just had a practice. I just got back from vacation. And I was like, well, that's life. We know a lot about our work good now. All right, podcasts. Other people have diabetes. Even scientists, people in Quebec, sometimes scientists, people have diabetes. So I guess let's just go to the beginning for so what what do you remember if anything about your diagnosis?

Holly 3:58
I remember my mom crying a lot and comforting her. And then I was hospitalized for a month. Okay, which was a long time even then I think, wait a month, like a month? I lived in the hospital for a month. Do you

Scott Benner 4:12
recall why?

Holly 4:13
So I what I was told was that they had to stabilize me.

Scott Benner 4:19
So they're stabilizing techniques don't work that well? I guess not. I'm, I'm just checking very quickly. It's 2023 right now. I go back 40 years it was 83. Okay.

Holly 4:33
All right. Even back then. No, that was a long time. I can talk to a lot of other people who've been who were diagnosed around the same time or? Yeah, it was a long time.

Scott Benner 4:41
No, no, for sure. Maybe your parents were like, This is amazing. Can you keep her longer place? You don't know but the kids are pain. maybe who knows? They see your dad grease and bombs. She needs to be here another week. Don't you think?

Holly 4:57
We can't deal with this at home.

Scott Benner 4:59
You Yeah. Three more days. Do you remember anything about your care?

Holly 5:05
I remember that. I mean, in terms of in terms of what I was taking,

Scott Benner 5:09
do you mean? Yeah, and how your family.

Holly 5:12
So I remember, I started with either one or two needles a day, I remember going to two. I remember, I was on two, very shortly afterwards, but I don't remember if I started on to where I started on one. But it was like the classic, you know, beef and pork. Cloudy and clear. I remember testing my urine. That was really fun the test tubes in the bathroom and they would, you know, you would drop in, one of them took two drops of urine and five drops of water. And one of them took five drops of urine and 10 drops of water, and then you drop in the tablet and the fears. They change colors and you compare them to the chart.

Scott Benner 5:49
Does that clear the test?

Holly 5:52
So the clinic test was the strip's and they came late. I believe it might have been Clintus. I don't know.

Scott Benner 5:57
No, no, I know. I'm, I'm amazed that you remember that much of it. So then you're Are you one shot a day or two? How do they start? Yeah,

Holly 6:05
thank you. I think I start with two because I definitely remember doing you know, the the breakfast shot. So it was like, you know, 45 minutes before breakfast, and then the supper shot, which was about 45 minutes before supper.

Scott Benner 6:17
Okay. All right. measurements of your health. Any idea what they were looking for? Nothing.

Holly 6:26
I went to the hospital every three months. They took some blood. That's all I know. Okay. And even see wasn't even like, you know, when was he when he developed? Wasn't it like 79 or something like that. So they may not have even had it. I grew up in Saskatchewan. Oh, yeah. Just north of north of North Dakota and Montana. For anyone who is less, less familiar with Canadian geography.

Scott Benner 6:46
I just like that. I like for people to hear that there was no measurement. Like your measurement of health was what standing up? I don't know. Yeah, right. She's alive. We did it. Come back.

Holly 6:58
Here. I wasn't, you know, I was a little kid. So they might have been telling my parents more than that. This is not a conversation I would ever have with my parents. So.

Scott Benner 7:07
Okay, so you did not talk about diabetes with your parents whose child?

Holly 7:12
Oh, I mean, in terms of like, how am I doing? Ah, no, we talked about that. I mean, I would not have this conversation now. Oh, we would never talk about it. What Why do you think that is? Because I mean, my mom and I don't talk much anyway. And my dad basically left it to my mom. And then she left him when I was eight. And then he moved back to Europe when I was 13. So it wasn't really

Scott Benner 7:35
involved. All right, she left him that's why we don't talk to her.

Holly 7:40
Ah, no, we had a you don't have to tell you. I love my mom. Sure. I love my mom. So this is not a therapy session. Right. But we had a difficult conversation a couple of years ago, and haven't really come back together on that.

Scott Benner 7:56
Oh, I see. So one of you doesn't matter who brought up something. I'm gonna guess it was you. You brought up something that had been bothering you your whole life and it didn't land well. When you have diabetes and use insulin, low blood sugar can happen when you don't expect it. GE voc hypo pen is a ready to use glucagon option that can treat very low blood sugar in adults and kids with diabetes. ages two and above. Find out more go to G voc glucagon.com. Forward slash juicebox. G voc shouldn't be used in patients with pheochromocytoma or insulinoma. Visit G voc glucagon.com/risk.

Holly 8:37
We wanted her to test for COVID Oh, and she did. And we thought it was fine. And then the last night of our visit there she got really upset at me about the fact that she had to test for COVID That's it. Yeah. And but it's so when I talk to people who don't understand diabetes, the way I explain this is my my sister has asthma and was allergic to cigarette smoke. It was always said, you know, she shouldn't be around smoke. My mom smoked all the time. Sure, in the car in house, all that sort of stuff. So take that same attitude map into diabetes. That's sort of what I got. Okay. So,

Scott Benner 9:21
you know, my sister can't be my sister can't be around cigarette smoke. And she's like, why not? I'm fine. I

Holly 9:31
think she tried to quit and she did succeed at one point for anyway. It's complicated. And I lived

Scott Benner 9:37
in Saskatchewan. I do heroin, just so you know. Because it sounds cold.

Holly 9:43
It's very cold. Mo for sure. I plug in your car

Scott Benner 9:47
to keep it warm, not because it's an electric car.

Holly 9:49
So it will start again. Yeah, this is back in the day pre electric car.

Scott Benner 9:53
Yeah. So there's heaters on the engine block and you'd plug it in to keep the oil from becoming Hard, correct? Yeah, heroin right into a vein. That's what I do. I'd be like, I gotta get out of here. Or I'd worn that carbon drive south until I did something, though. What the hell does that mean? It's you

Holly 10:13
know how you know how in places so when I lived in Toronto for a while Toronto winters are technically warmer than Saskatchewan. And I think New Jersey is pretty similar to Toronto, right? I mean, sort of like it's it's cold and gray and slushy. You know, whereas in Saskatchewan, it's cold, but it's blue, and bright and sunny.

Scott Benner 10:32
It doesn't matter to me, I'd get the hell out of there. And Tuesday. Okay, so Oh, that's interesting. I

Holly 10:37
was seven years I supposed to go? I don't know. I mean, you were

Scott Benner 10:41
making better decisions than your mom, you should have tried it and so on. So, okay, so you're not nearly the first person I've spoken to who who's had like a real family remoulding. Around COVID. Like, very interesting. Like, it's not uncommon at all. There's a woman I wish she'd never come on here. But her family like, like, just disintegrated over it. Like just, you know, and it wasn't like in your things really simple. It's not like your mom was like, I don't think COVID is real. And you're like, I think it is it wasn't even that argument. It was like, I just need you to put a swab in your nose to make sure I'm not gonna get COVID Because I have diabetes. Yeah. And that pissed her off enough. How old is she?

Holly 11:22

70. Okay, seven years, he would have been 69 or 68. And

Scott Benner 11:28
I'm just trying to change. Yeah. I was trying to figure out why she won't come back around. Yeah,

Holly 11:34
I don't know. I don't know. No, it was my kids were going to visit her. And my youngest was still too young for vaccines. And we know that my eldest does not have the genes for type one, or at least the, you know, the common. The Attilio subtypes that are associated with type one because he was enrolled in trigger was a newborn. But my youngest had never been tested. I mean, trigger wasn't. Trigger wasn't running at that time. So

Scott Benner 12:02
you were basically saying to your mom, listen, I don't want my kid to get COVID and then end up this kicking a diabetes thing in. So just stick this swab in your nose and let's check to make sure you don't have it. Did you pay for the test? No. She she was out the 12 bucks. You're saying? Maybe that was the problem? That she did bring that up real Oh, stop. It. She really? Yeah. She that's great. I just imagined her mind. She's like, my cigarette smoking didn't hurt the girl. Like they said it was going to there's no way that this could happen. Wow. That's fascinating. All right. Anyway, thanks for telling me that. That was a great year. We'll be right back up again. I know how to make the podcast again. Alright, so you haven't spoken to your mom in a while? Yeah.

Holly 12:50
I'm sad about it actually. Like it's Oh, no,

Scott Benner 12:52
I would imagine. Do you want to? You want to talk more about it? Go ahead. No. Okay. I

Holly 12:57
didn't know if you want to unburden unless you want me to send you a copay afterwards.

Scott Benner 13:01
I wish people would send me $40 After I made a podcast with him, but that hasn't happened yet. Okay, so you manage the way you did for how long? Like when did you go to MDI, every day that I wake up, I drink he won. He won, of course, is a foundational nutrition supplement that supports whole body health, drink, ag one.com/juicebox. I drink ag one every morning, just a cold glass of water and a scoop of delicious ag one, mix it up and drink it down. It's the perfect start to my day. I gave ag want to try initially because I was tired of taking so many vitamins and supplements. And I wanted a single solution that supports my entire body and covers my nutritional bases. I wanted better gut health. I wanted a boost of energy. And I hated taking all those pills and vitamins. So if you want to take ownership of your health, it starts with ag one. Try ag one with my link and get a free one year supply of vitamin D and five free travel packs with your first purchase. Just go to drink ag one.com/juice box that's drink ag one.com/juice box, check it out. There's links in the show notes and links at juicebox podcast.com.

Holly 14:17
So what do you count as MDI? Like, is to just two needles count? No, right. So I'm so that was mph, right when I was about so I got my and then I got my first so here, here are the things I remember. And I'm gonna I'm just gonna guess about how old I was. I remember getting a blood glucose meter around age 11. Okay, all right. That was the big brick. Yeah, super. You would put the put a big drop of blood on and blot it and wait 60 seconds and then close the meter. I remember that one human synthetic insulins that was a big change. And I think I was I would have been about 1314 15 around there. That's you getting Lantus. Then No Lantis did not come until much later. Okay. Yeah, no, I actually never even I never even got a. I never even took lintas Because I moved to a pump in 2004 and

Scott Benner 15:12
went right to a pub. Here in Canada. I forgot. So

Holly 15:15
yeah, Lantis was later coming here. So, yeah, but I've moved off of mph on to a took lenti Ultra net MPH is terrible. It was just terrible. And so I tried everything else. lenti and ultra Linsay. Were the two.

Scott Benner 15:32
How was it not helpful day to day? Like What Did mph not allow for you?

Holly 15:37
Um, it's just really variable in terms of how it absorbs you never really know when that peak is gonna happen. You know, and I've never needed a lot of insulin. So small variations. We're all we just like, kick my behind.

Scott Benner 15:52
You think you were a low a lot as a child.

Holly 15:55
I was I there was a lot of glucagon in my childhood

Scott Benner 15:58
really? Like, like seizures. And

Holly 16:02
I don't know if I had a lot of seizures. I know I did have one seizure because I was hospitalized for that. But I would wake up, it'd be about usually about 1030 I'd had glucagon and I was barfing. Wow. And I would barf all day and miss the whole day of school.

Scott Benner 16:19
And this was common for you. Common? Well, you mentioned in your note that you don't feel your lows. Is that still Yeah, that's still the case. That is still the case. How, what age did you lose the ability to feel them?

Holly 16:34
So it was about 20 years in. So I would have been about 27 ish. But it's tough to say when it started. You know, I have? I have. It's funny. My husband and I were talking about this the other day, because there was one point when I sort of realized I'm like this something, something weird is going on, we were on a canoeing trip. And we had to get across a lake. It was really windy, was bad weather. It was it was in May. And it was snowing. And it was just we were like What are we doing out canoeing in May. And we had to get across this lake. And so we're just paddling. And all of a sudden, I'm crashing low. And I didn't feel it coming at all. And I you know you're in a canoe, I can't get up and go get my bag or anything like that. But I always had those, those gels tucked in a pocket of my life jacket. And you know, the cherry gels. And they don't even claim to be delicious. They just say pleasant cherry flavor. That's the level to which they aspire. Yeah,

Scott Benner 17:37
we're just gonna go for not horrible here and see, see what we can do. You'll be able to choke it down. That'd be a better marketing plan. If it just said it doesn't taste horrible. Better than pleasant actually. Also, I'm not sure if people are paying attention to what level but this lady lives in a place where it snows in May. So I don't know why you would stay there again. That's ridiculous there flowers and green grass in May here. Do you have a car?

Holly 18:05
It was not normal? We were not expecting the snow on that.

Scott Benner 18:09
Alright. Alright, that's fair enough. So what do you see you do the gel? Does it actually stop that? Or is

Holly 18:16
it works? I mean, obviously I survived. Right? Yeah. But I mean somebody

Scott Benner 18:18
paddling furiously to get you to a bag.

Holly 18:22
I don't recall. Like, I just remember squeezing the gel and like rubbing it in my cheek. And then, you know, continuing to paddle you just sort of keep going. Mainly, I mean, I can still function physically when I'm low. It's the cognitive

Scott Benner 18:36
stuff that goes buried at that point.

Holly 18:39
We were not married. No, we were we were I think we were engaged at that point.

Scott Benner 18:42
Yeah, that's how you know he likes you. And that's over. Really? Like, wow, he's he didn't just get in the car and drive.

Holly 18:51
I mean, driver's license at that point. So you know,

Scott Benner 18:54
oh, because Saskatchewan. Why would you need that?

Holly 18:57
Right. He grew up on a commune. What the hell were Ontario? They have that in Canada. Oh, yeah.

Scott Benner 19:06
How was he your Is he your age? Did you have the cradle what's going on?

Holly 19:10
No, he's so he's 50. I'm 47. Oh,

Scott Benner 19:13
okay. Here's he was a little older. He didn't have a license in his late 20s. What kind of commune was it? We'd?

Holly 19:20
No, it was. That would have been great. They probably would have survived. They sold organic food. And the kids had to do all the weeding.

Scott Benner 19:31
So his parents were his parents were hippies.

Holly 19:34
I think they were want to be hippies. It was a religious commune.

Scott Benner 19:37
Oh, sell it. Gotcha. Did they wear deodorant?

Holly 19:44
Oh, no. Never asked you would they wear deodorant? Now? You were dating him?

Scott Benner 19:47
Did he wear deodorant? He did. All right. Okay. I didn't think Canada made that stuff. What hippies? Yeah, hippies. Like, there's Canadian hippie

Holly 19:59
group. Okay. It does they did have sites around the

Scott Benner 20:02
world. Do you not want to tell me what it was called?

Holly 20:05
It was called the divine Emmis emissaries of the Divine Light.

Scott Benner 20:09
Alright, hold on. First. I'm googling Canadian hippies. They had them. Okay, you guys got that too. Now hold on to one of the white light.

Holly 20:20
emissaries of divine light. I don't know if it's still I believe they might still have one site that is still in existence. One or two? Wow. I know they had one. So I know he lived for a while in Colorado as well.

Scott Benner 20:34
There on the web. Yeah. So I mean, if you've got a website, you're real. Is that something? Good?

Holly 20:42
Oh, no, I was just gonna say commune. I mean, he's amazing. And I do think that there's something to be said for growing up with the idea of, we're all in this together.

Scott Benner 20:54
Ya know, I would imagine. I mean, just as long as the leader doesn't try to touch you weird or something. Great. Are his parents alive? I'm sorry. This is the Yeah, they're fantastic. And they don't do stuff like this any longer. But they're just really lovely people.

Holly 21:09
Just really lovely people. They're not together his dad. His dad was actually one of the last people who stayed in the location where my husband grew up. And his mom met her current partner there. They've been together for 30 years.

Scott Benner 21:23
Wow. Yeah. So he his mom, and that they just traded off and she went a different way. And he stayed behind, trying to keep the ship from going down. I guess that's great. Well, yeah. Oh, very weird. I love this podcast. I don't know why. Every time somebody says something like, that's crazy. Yeah. Very cool.

Holly 21:44
So many people have such, I mean, I think most people don't think their own life. Is that interesting. But when you listen to stories about people's lives, so many people have these interesting stories.

Scott Benner 21:54
Oh, yeah. You're all out of your mind. If you don't think your lives are interesting. You're just not asking the right questions. That's all I guess. Yeah. All right. So where did this start? Oh, you're hyper

Holly 22:03
awareness in the middle of a canoe? In the snow?

Scott Benner 22:07
I guess my question is, what are the implications of that as an adult?

Holly 22:12
I mean, the main implication for me is it makes it difficult to drive.

Scott Benner 22:16
Okay, because out of nowhere, you're just too low to function in your head.

Holly 22:21
Yeah. Well, so I ended up. So I got a Dexcom. Very early, they weren't available yet in Canada. But I was working in the US. I was doing my postdoc at the University of Michigan. And so, because of that, because I have a sensor, I'm able to do things like drive, but prior to that, it was really scary. Yeah. Right. And I would, you know, always test before I drive, and then I would pull over at least once an hour to test and data.

Scott Benner 22:49
So wow, did you ever have trouble? Um, no, because I've followed the rules. You were so ahead of it. Yeah. Yeah. How does it so it impacts that way? Is it? Yeah, this is gonna sound strange. Is it kind of nice. Like, when you hear other people talk about being dizzy at 65 and stuff like that? Are you kind of, I still get oh, you still have oh, man present?

Holly 23:11
I just have no warning that it's coming. I see. Okay, it's more like i. So it's not that I don't feel any low ever. Although, I've been incredibly low. And just feeling nothing. So you know, I think the lowest I've ever been, and just, you know, I, my Dexcom is going bananas. And I feel fine. Would have been about you know, what around to so 36

Scott Benner 23:38
Wow. Yeah. I mean, that's low.

Holly 23:40
But I still do get low still do impact me. And particularly, I get really sad. You cry. Sometimes, so. And mostly it's just like, everything sucks for three or four hours after I've been low.

Scott Benner 23:56
Oh, Tom, are you serious? So yeah, you get a low even like, like, how low do you have to get before the world's not good for hours afterwards?

Holly 24:04
It's not really a number doesn't seem to be tied to a particular number. But it happens with some frequency. And I was already pretty motivated to avoid lows. But that is definitely an additional motivator.

Scott Benner 24:15
Oh, that's interesting. So you know, what's the level of sadness? Are you unable? Like, I'm really sad. Did like just lay around in a pile or?

Holly 24:23
No, I keep going up because I have a life and I have to do stuff. Yeah. But I'm, I'm very much aware that I am sucking it up. And then I'm going to be fine in four hours. And these thoughts that I'm having are just the low. Everything's gonna be okay.

Scott Benner 24:37
Wow. So it's not just like, it's not like a feeling of just like, Doom or dread or unhappiness, it's total despondency. Like, and it touches things get meaning that just because you know it's happening because of the law. You can't say. I know this lamp is pretty and I'm sitting here thinking about throwing it away because I'm so said that I bought this lamp. Yeah, there's no distinction in there.

Holly 25:03
No, I am very. So I have the meta thought that I am aware of what's happening. I'm aware that it's happening because I'm low. And then I'm going to be okay. Yeah, but I'm still feeling the feeling. Wow,

Scott Benner 25:15
that's XR. Does it impact relationships? Like do you is like, do we know we don't talk about stuff during that time.

Holly 25:22
So I do request that to not be asked to make decisions when I'm low.

Scott Benner 25:26
Okay, because you'll follow the feeling

Holly 25:29
more I have real difficulty making choices. That's crazy. Like, it's just it feels impossible to decide anything.

Scott Benner 25:36
Yeah. Like, yeah, like, you have dread, like real, like despondent feelings. And that's something. Are you ever afraid you'll hurt yourself during it? No, no.

Holly 25:46
I have responsibilities to my family.

Scott Benner 25:48
I mean, like, could you like, could you like tumble like, I don't know. There's no world peace. I wish there was more food. Why are there more commons where people make food? And then you're up on the roof looking down at the ground? Like, could it go that quickly? Or? No,

Holly 26:04
I don't think so. I think like, because I am aware of what's happening as it is happening. It's just, it's really unpleasant, even though I know why it's happening. And that is going to stop.

Scott Benner 26:14
Yeah. Wow, that's really interesting. No one's ever said that before. You're on a first I don't think anybody's had a low on a rowboat. married a guy who grew up in a commune or describe sadness after being low life? That's really good shoe. What else you gonna say?

Holly 26:27
I don't know. Let's find out what sound you got?

Scott Benner 26:30
Yeah, that's a good question. I ever I have a meeting later this afternoon, where I have to listen to the people that helped my mom where she lives describe why they didn't help her again. And then I get to sit there and try to be. So my wife tells me, I have to be polite during these conversations, because I'll put the people off, and then it'll make them harder for them to help my mom, I want to hold them accountable. And I'm not good at holding them accountable with pleasant words. Like outside of

Holly 26:59
gender element there, though.

Scott Benner 27:01
I think it's, I think it's because they tried to kill my mommy. And I'm not I'm not okay with that. And on the podcast. It's interesting. Like, there's a, there's a dynamic at play that most of you aren't aware of, but like, I'm a really direct person. And like, if I was in charge of a group of 20 people in a, you know, in a business situation, we would be a very effective group of 21 people. If I worked in that group of 20 people, I would be a despised human being, nobody would like me. So my wife said, There's no way you could have a real job. She's like, people would fire you immediately. And I was saying, but that's why the podcast works. So well. I said, Because I tell myself what to do. And then I do it. Right. And she's like, Yeah, not everybody does the thing at their job that they're supposed to do. And I'm like, so when they don't do it, it's not okay for me to point out to them that they're not doing it. She goes, No, we have to speak nicely, where they know, we know that they're not doing it, but we don't make them feel bad about it. And I was like, Are you sure? Like, because I would just like to tell them? Do your fucking job? Like, is that not okay, so anyway,

Holly 28:09
so I might not say to your fucking job. But I do think so. I do, I suspect. I'd be curious for you to hear your wife's perspective on this. But I'm willing to bet that you could get away with saying things that she probably can't because of the gender, the gender dynamics. Well, I tried that the legs are allowed to be forceful in ways that women aren't I understand

Scott Benner 28:30
your point. I also think that it's, I think that there's also an aspect in my regular life, that sometimes I have to be cognizant about the doesn't exist, and which is that here, I make, like when you come to record with me, you trust me already. Like, right, so like, so I'm kind of the leader of the of the like, I'm the leader of the commune. And, and when I tell you to take off your pants, it's for Jesus, you don't question it?

Holly 29:01
No, you only get to tell me to weed the garden.

Scott Benner 29:03
Yeah. Okay, sure. And then

Holly 29:07
what job I get to do, and those sorts of things,

Scott Benner 29:10
what guy can have my wife off to if she's

Holly 29:13
okay? Which sister wife, I'm going to be friends.

Scott Benner 29:16
I just have this, like, so I'm accustomed to being a trusted source in this situation. And then you get into the real world, where like, you're in a room with four people were like, I don't know what your stupid podcast is about buddy. And I have no idea who you are. And I forget that, like, everyone's not just going to be thrilled that I'm there. Because I do live a portion of my life or when I show up people are like, it's the guy and I'm like it is it's me. And like and like we're all good. And I am a very like, I am a very pleasant person. But I'm also direct to the point of I think it would surprise people that listen that if you if you were to screw me in my own life, I wouldn't care about how you felt in our altercation or in our but But what I'm Interview,

Holly 30:00
it's pretty clear, I think people should be surprised. I would not be surprised. But in

Scott Benner 30:04
this, I'm always coming from the perspective of, like, Tell me more. Why is that? Like, I'm interested in the interviewing more. Because if I just said everything I was thinking, I guess these interviews would be like, like, I don't? How do I put this? You're getting, like, 23% of me on the podcast, and you made the best 25 You would not enjoy the whole 100%? Cuz I would just be like, how the hell did you get in that boat without something to help yourself?

Holly 30:34
It was in the pocket of my life jacket,

Scott Benner 30:38
there'd be more of me going What's wrong with you?

Holly 30:40
What's wrong? Responsible?

Scott Benner 30:43
It'd be more of me on the podcast going? Did you consider thinking? It's stuff like that. So little bits of that, intermingled in the conversations is actually big people like it. And it's helpful because I interact, right. But when I, but when you don't do a thing you're supposed to do with my mom's care. And she ends up in the hospital and literally almost dies. And then we get back, she somehow makes her way through it. And we're sitting in the meeting, trying to figure out how to not let this happen again, and the answer is if you did your job, it wouldn't have happened. And then they get on and say, You know what, we needed a plan. And I said, you had a plan, you didn't follow it? And they said, Yeah, but we're gonna make a new plan. And I said, Are you going to follow the new plan? And they were like, Well, what we and they just kept pushing the idea of, we need a plan. And I started off very nicely, I remind everybody who was on the call, but when it started, I was pleasant. But about the third time that they insisted that the problem wasn't them. It was that the plan wasn't right. I said, No, you guys have to stop. I was like, that's, that's not what happened here. And I just am not good. I've said this in the podcast, I am not good at sitting in a room where you're lying to me, and I know it, and I'm lying to you. And you know it, I just, I can't do that. So in today's meeting, I've been told, just to sit there very quietly. So I'm gonna be like, the heavy in the room. Like, imagine we're in a room collecting money from your gambling debts. And you say, Who's the guy in the corner? Because you think the guy in the corner is gonna break your hand. I'm gonna play that part today. I'm just gonna say hello to everybody and then not say anything. And then all the nice people in my family are gonna nice it up for me.

Holly 32:27
Anyway, good luck to them.

Scott Benner 32:28
Thank you. Because I just made that happen. That sucks. Oh, it was terrible. Like, I'm not kidding. Like she was in the hospital, delirious, throwing things, not herself, minute to minute didn't remember what happened a minute before. You know, the first four days in the hospital, they're like, you know, my brothers. And I got together and talked about her funeral arrangements, like like that. And then I'm on a call with somebody who's like, well, she's great. I'm like, Yes, but I still had to get on a call with my brothers and decide if my mom was going to be cremated or buried. And now we're all gonna sit here and pretend it. It's all fine, we'll make a new plan. So anyway, I yelled at them a lot. And got things in line. That call did not go well, from that point, from their perspective. And at the end, I they were like, well, what do you want to do? And I said, No, I'm not in charge. Like, what do you want to do? Like I don't, I said, I said, Actually, I think what I said was, Do I ask you to come to my job and do it for me? And they were like, what? And I'm like, I'm not doing your job, you do your job. That's all I want from you. You do your job. Don't kill my mom. At one point, my brother reminded me. So my mom got a UTI. Okay, she's at and almost killed her. My brother reminds me that at some point during the conversation with the people, he says, Scott, you told them the entire story of mom's life in 35 seconds, leading up to her beating cancer last year, and then said, If my mom dies from her ASPI and dirty, I'm not sure how well I'm going to handle that. And there was a pause. And he said, and then he goes, and then you said, So cancer couldn't kill her. But you guys are going to. And anyway, my wife says, I can't say that in meetings with people. So

Holly 34:17
I would I think your wife is correct. That is probably probably not going to engender feelings of hey, let's go the extra mile for this family.

Scott Benner 34:29
I thought they would just do it out of fear. And by the way, they did for three weeks. For three weeks. They did what they were supposed to do. And you know why we're having this meeting again, because they stopped doing what they were supposed to do. And my mom got that was only found out because we were paying attention very, very closely at this time because we know, accreditation. I mean, it's a state. It's a facility that is accredited by the state. And you know, there's actually

Holly 34:56
if I were if I I mean, I'm not a lawyer Hey, and not in that situation don't even know what state it is. But you know, that is usually what they're afraid of. They're not afraid of individuals. They're afraid of the accreditation board.

Scott Benner 35:09
Yeah, one woman in the call. I remember her saying, no one's ever spoken to me like this before. And I said, Oh, I'm sorry. This is the first time I've had to deal with someone trying to kill my mom. Am I not being polite enough? I didn't, it would have made a great podcast. Holly was not a great personal meeting between caregivers and family. I lost my temper. And anyway, I will not apologize. Point being we got off on a tangent. I didn't mean to do that. Okay, so you

Holly 35:39
are saying your whole podcast about tangents?

Scott Benner 35:41
Yeah, but I like to pretend that that's not what it is. No, okay. I act like this is part of the diabetes. This is the stick. I'm like, Oh, how did we get down this road? You want to know the truth? Everyone listening? Here's the truth. You can't make an entertaining podcast about diabetes completely.

Holly 35:58
Doesn't work. That's why I like yours. It's very funny.

Scott Benner 36:02
Thank you very much. Why am I reading here that you dropped out of school? What school?

Holly 36:07
I dropped out of university and and went to work on a sailboat.

Scott Benner 36:15
Alright, so now you're the second person that's worked on a sailboat on the podcast. Oh, really? Yeah. One girl. I thought I did for you. This girl. It would happen so long ago. She found it in a magazine.

Holly 36:29
Oh, she went to school on a sailboat. I remember that way. Right? Right.

Scott Benner 36:33
They took her to the Bahamas, like I think she flew to the Bahamas and then came back up the coast or something like that. And her doctor changed her insulin during the the trip. And they they mailed it to a port where they knew she was crazy stuff like that.

Holly 36:48
I loved it. So no, mine was mine was not that organized. Say I just I needed to. I needed a break. I had been, I'd spent two years at university in at Queens, which will mean something to people in Canada, but it's this very waspy school. And I worked there both summers too. So I hadn't left this college town for two years, I needed to do something different. And I also needed to make money. So so I could keep going to school. So I dropped out, planning to come back. And I did end up coming back, although it was mainly because I broke my ankle. And so I had to go back to school. Whereas if I hadn't broken my ankle, I probably would have taken the job I was offered to crew in the South Pacific. And then I'd be having a very different life.

Scott Benner 37:34
Wow. Instead, you came back and finished what degree

Holly 37:38
my first degree, my undergrad degree was in engineering and math and mechanical engineering. And then I worked as an engineer for a while, okay, and then went back to grad school and got a that funding basically to do some work in health related to health. I was still in engineering, but I was doing more human computer interaction, and then did a postdoc in social science and health. And now I'm faculty and in med school.

Scott Benner 38:04
Wow. Tell me what the lore of the boat was that almost got you to leave all those impressive things that you just said,

Holly 38:12
Oh, well, very impressive, because they're because of the way our society is structured. But I mean, there are, I don't know, what's your fun, going places is fun.

Scott Benner 38:22
Forget what society thinks though. Like you were on your way to being like a, like I'm looking you know, you seem safe indoors. You know, your hair's been washed, you're having decent life is what I'm saying. And you were very grateful. But if you think if you didn't break your ankle, you would have just taken a different job and go on a completely different path. I was like, it wasn't drugs. It was just boys. Was it? Nothing. It was just the thing. You liked it.

Holly 38:48
I just liked it. Yeah. So I wanted to go somewhere. I wanted to be somewhere else.

Scott Benner 38:54
So how long did you do it for before your ankle?

Holly 38:57
So I was on the boat. So I I had a period of time where I was working at a manufacturing plant to make more money. And then we left for Florida where the boat was dry, docked, thinking December and I broke my ankle and it was it was about four, four or five months.

Scott Benner 39:15
Okay. All right. So it was still romantic notion. You hadn't been there that long, maybe two years into it, you would have been like, Okay, I want to be an engineer. I didn't want to work for that. I didn't want to work on that boat for very long. Oh, about a bigger, nicer, happier experience. You

Holly 39:30
know, just different different captain.

Scott Benner 39:32
Oh, what's that? Is that politics? Is it

Holly 39:36
so the captain of the boat so the boat that I was working on? Was my I was first mate and cook. And so I did everything that the captain didn't want to do. It was a little 47 foot sailboat, and he would have his friends come and they would stay on board for two weeks at a time. And they would pay enough just to cover sort of costs food fuel Yeah, you know, my pathetic salary, stuff like that. And he was from East Germany, he had defected and moved to Canada and made a bunch of money in real estate, and was very particular. And so he would do things like, you know, call me over after I'd cleaned the clean this the soul, so the floor inside the boat, and when he was inspecting it with a flashlight, and he would show me the spots that I'd missed.

Scott Benner 40:27
Oh, lovely. So I used to do graphic design for a guy who would spend the first 27 days of the month brainstorming, which we later learned been drinking during the day. And then he would spend the last 72 hours standing over my shoulder. Like watching me work so that I'd meet his deadline. And I'm good under pressure because of that. Oh, well, you know, skills, but it was, it was unpleasant. I got him fired. Did I ever tell that story on here? I don't know. That's such a good story. If I never told that story, somebody write me a note. Because I'll tell you. Yeah, he screwed me and I screwed him back. Yeah, sort of like the meeting at that day. It probably wasn't smart enough to push me the rest of the way. Anyway, not the point. Okay, so you end up back at school? And now you? I mean, what, what is your, I guess, tell me a little bit about your job right now, my current job, or the one that talks directly to the other thing you want to talk about which you said to me and your note that you'd like? It says getting doctors to provide better diabetes care. I have some academic work on this. And I have some funny stories personally. So oh, gosh, do you remember writing that?

Holly 41:42
I vaguely it was a really long time ago, it was at least Yes, I do have I do have work on that. So my postdoc, so my current job, my current job. I'm a I'm a professor at a med school. And so I do primarily research, I teach a little bit, I mostly teach health professionals. So doctors, nurses, you know, physiotherapists, people who are in training to become health professionals. And I do a little bit of continuing professional education to so people who are already practicing. So we did do a study where my postdoc, and I, and another and a med student, did video interviews with people with diabetes, type one and type two. And ask them a bunch of questions. And one of the questions we asked was, What could health professionals do better? What could they do to provide better care to people with diabetes? And then we took all those video interviews, and we stitch them together into sort of like a learning module. And then we tested it we trialed it with with med students, and it helps them respond to clinical scenarios of people with diabetes better. So what's your

Scott Benner 42:48
opinion of when people have poor interactions with doctors, doctors that appear not to know how to help them? Why do you think that is? Why can I figure out more than a doctor can figure out

Holly 43:02
about management about anything? About anything?

Scott Benner 43:05
Why do I go in? And why do I go in and say, hey, here are my symptoms? And they're like, Hey, take this. And then in then I go home and go, no, no, that turns out, this is impacting that. And I don't need a medication for the second thing, I need the first thing to not happen that's happening because of this. Here's how you stop it. And then I have to go back to them, explain it to them, and then smile like a puppy and hope they write the right prescription for me. Why is it work that way? Oh, gosh,

Holly 43:32
I mean, I think so you're talking about your experience in the US system, which is a different a different system than other countries. But I do think that it is common for people to have negative experiences in healthcare systems. There are a lot of reasons it happens. Some of them are the fault of system level factors. So things like there is not enough time. Right? Right. So especially in primary care, those health professionals do not are not paid enough to be able to pay their nurses and pay their staff and that sort of thing and run a clinic in a way that would allow them to spend the time with people to really get like to really unpack what's happening with that person, because it takes time.

Scott Benner 44:18
Yeah. Here's my idea. Tell me if it's yeah, I held this idea for a while I've said it to a couple of people using diabetes as an example. I think instead of you coming to a 1520 minute, 30 minutes if you're lucky. appointment where you come in, and then the first couple of minutes is spent with that I forgot Hello, while they're trying to like look at the chart and remember who the hell you are, you know, and then it's how's it going? They don't care. They're just looking at what your last day latency was and what they talked about the notes they made about you and you're sitting there thinking that this is like one of your best friends the whole world and they're busy going like that. I don't remember this person at all. And like that part ends. There's the first five minutes, then how's it going? And then you say the things you've been holding inside the whole time they go. Ah, uh huh. Okay. Yeah, well, everything looks fine here. And then and then that ends and what scripts do you need? That's really why you're there. What do you need? Do you need insulin? Do you need insulin? Do you need test strips? Do you need a CGM? Tell me what you need. Where do I send it? Like, this is what it is? I think we should this is gonna sound weird. So I'm just gonna say we should all just sign a HIPAA waiver, go into one room, spend the whole day, all of us. So if the doctor sees 20 people a day, in eight hours, then there should be a six hour supposing them with those 20 people where they've done that, why wouldn't Why not more, every time on Tuesday, he should do it with the next 20 people. And on Wednesday,

Holly 45:53
you should talk to you should talk to the people at the courier unit at Mayo Clinic. Okay. Victor mentoree, his group has done this. So one of my good one of my best colleagues here, Angela, she worked with him for a long time. And she ran. She ran a trial of this in maternity care, it works really well. They've done it in type two diabetes care, it works really well. Not quite what you're talking about. But but pretty similar, right? So this idea of group based care, where you do go through, and you do look at people's labs and that sort of thing. And then you and then people ask questions. And I think you're right, because, you know, it happens all the time. Because you could people ask questions that you didn't realize you had until someone else asks it,

Scott Benner 46:38
you can basically replicate the podcast and what it does for people in real life. Because then everyone would ask somebody will ask a question. They'll get their answer. Five people who had the question didn't know they had the questions, they'll get the answer. Five people who had the question would never have been able to raise their hand because they're, for whatever reason, they get the answer. Somebody else asks you keep going. There's people around the side of the room to do breakouts, if you need somebody to talk to. It lasts all day, you get a lunch, it'd be beautiful. Is it because we can't bill for?

Holly 47:09
I don't know enough about how us Yeah, why. But billing problems would definitely be one of the issues. The issue around I mean, I don't think it works for everyone. But I think you're right, I think yeah, it would work for a lot of people, maybe not all day, but like half a day.

Scott Benner 47:25
Couple years ago, before it right before COVID, I was getting ready to go on. Like, I must have spoken at nine things and like a calendar year. And I hadn't done it a while. So I just let a listener find, like a space near me. And I told people, I'll be here to talk about diabetes on this day. Because basically, I need practice given my thing again, and talking to people. And I think someone found a church, they like shook the space out of them for free. I showed up, no one murdered me that was delightful. And you know, there at the end, maybe 4050 people came to this. And I still know a number of them. Like they still listen to the podcast. And in like two hours, you can just like pick someone up and move them to a new a new place in their understanding. You know, I'm thinking about a woman who drove I don't know if you know, the, the geography enough, but a woman who listened still whose son is now an adult, but then three or four years ago is probably a high school students still, she drove from Long Island, like out on Long Island in New York, to a place in Pennsylvania that somebody found for me that I was close enough to that I could make it to and spent the night like, put like a whole thing into it, you know, and her I just talked to her recently, her son's doing terrific. You know, like so I just think that 20 minutes at a time when the first five minutes is like, hey, and the last time and it's just like, tell me what scripts you need. Hurry up. I don't think anything really happens. So I mean, I don't see anybody really being helped. Yeah, I see people being maintained. Yep. You know, I see. I think that's fair. Yeah, I see people being they get lost. And because you really are left to go home and fill in the spaces on your own. And listen, I'm just gonna say it plainly. Apparently. I don't know how to otherwise do that. I guess I could have nice this up somehow. I don't think some people are capable of filling in the gaps. Right? And even me, who you might be like, Oh, he understands diabetes. Like look at the look at the opportunities I had, like, like my wife. I was just stay at home father. I had time, right that I wrote a blog. So it was important for me to pay attention to diabetes, then I made this podcast so it's important for me to take these diabetes like you don't mean like I I'm immersed in it constantly, like I used to say all the time. Like the podcast is more valuable for me than it is for you. But then I keep the podcast going and try to give it back to you again. But you all are really allowing me to stay immersed into it. I just think that's what people need any more time they need more conversations, they need to hear other people. And you need to hear things said in a bunch of different ways. So that one of them, like flips your switch, you know, anyway, yeah, no, I agree. Also that I'm writing to me, I said that I'm right there, why won't these people?

Holly 50:20
Right, and there are there have been I mean, there have been trials of that form of care that do show promise. I don't know enough about the funding model to understand why it isn't adopted more widely. I do know, it's really, really hard to implement new things in healthcare. Yeah, like, just ridiculously difficult. There's a whole science, it's called implementation science. Like people have whole careers in how do you get people to do the right thing in healthcare? Which is depressing as heck

Scott Benner 50:51
yeah, I'm gonna pull something up, first of all, because I want to talk to you about it. But you almost you almost booted just now. Thank you very much. Did I keep very close to giving me a Canadian about

Holly 51:02
you're very close to it? I could switch into French if you prefer. I know

Scott Benner 51:06
people listening who would prefer that, but I would not. Because I can only cancel like nine after three years. So I will

Holly 51:14
give you my husband's best best joke. Okay, back for a while now. Why do why do people in France only eat one egg for breakfast?

Scott Benner 51:24
Because one egg is enough. There you go. Thank you. Well, then, three years, three years in high school. Yeah, I ran a survey, fairly informal survey of people who listen to the podcast. I did it with, with a with a Hopkins student who was lovely and wanted to help the podcast somehow. So she helped me get it together. And when we first started doing it, and I'll brag here for a second, she said, How many people do you want to take the survey? And I said, I don't know, like 500. And she goes, you're not gonna get 50. And I said what she was big institutions have a lot of trouble getting people to take surveys. And I was like, are why one five? Yeah. So I got 1100 people to respond. And I could have kept going, I could have kept going. But I was like, at this point. It's actually just for my ego, because we have enough data. So we stopped. I'm not going to go through everything with you. But she written it up. Not yet. She she would love to see that or be great. Had a parent pass away unexpectedly. So but no, so we're working towards it. Your level of education, you know, the background stuff, What's your connection to diabetes? parent and caregiver I have type one was almost 5050. So for all the people who were like your podcast is just for parents because you're the parent. Not true. I knew it wasn't. It was Yeah, I knew it wasn't but nobody listens to me. You know, everybody using CGM or pomp. So how are you doing? It? Is our family history type one, type two, we go through those sorts of things. Do you have other autoimmune diseases overwhelmingly, thyroid, autoimmune thyroid, celiac, were wanting to others. Eight 766 of the respondents had something other autoimmune that wasn't on the list of like 10 things that I gave them to list. I threw in bipolar disorder because of my I know it's not technically auto immune. But I don't know how many people have to tell me that they're bipolar and they have type one before I'm interested 2121 people out of 1100 listed bipolar. Anyway, what was your your beginning a one C and your lowest a one C right. Before you begin listen to the podcast. You know, what was your highest? What was your lowest? Before you began listening to the podcast, and just highest 10 Lowest seven two highest seven six, lowest seven to highest 13? Lowest 8.9 highest 5853? It's all over the place, right? Like there's there's no there's nothing where you say Oh, only people in this scenario are listening to the podcast. How often do I get my Atrio uncIe checked? Most people do it every three months. Only a handful of people don't track there. Ha are there HBA one see, after beginning to listen to the Juicebox Podcast How did your agency change 960 People improved 175 same eight went up. And I just had somebody write to me and say it's unfair. I put went up because it was the right answer. But I was honeymooning and so my once that's normal. Yeah. And I was like that's terrific. But but she goes to tell me in the in the message. She's like the only reason why a one sees in the fives is because of the podcast, but it just went up because I was honeymooning prior, I was like okay, and then everyone beginning to listen to the podcast and now what was your one? See after three months after this thing? These numbers are insane. seven to five Half and a half, six to five and a half goes on and on and on. Like it really is. It's terrific. And I'm trying to child it. I don't know anything about what I'm doing. Do you have not gotten that from the podcast yet?

Holly 55:14
But I'm sure like, you can run a little like if you had an academic and academic partly like the students. Right? What is she doing a masters or a PhD?

Scott Benner 55:23
Think she just finished her master's in public health?

Holly 55:26
Is she going to do a PhD?

Scott Benner 55:28
I think she was thinking about it when I was talking to her. Okay. Yeah. So,

Holly 55:31
you know, like a little pilot RCT of randomized controlled trial of people who are, you know, randomly assigned to listen to like the Pro Tip series? Yeah. And then people who are randomly assigned to does the ADA have a podcast, you have to do something sort of semi equivalent.

Scott Benner 55:49
There's nothing equivalent to this podcasts as well. I know, but you have to give them something.

Holly 55:52
Okay. Right. You can't just say Comcast versus nothing.

Scott Benner 55:56
Okay. I understand. I see. I take any fact I do, too. I take your point. I'm trying to figure out everything. So what is my health care team? So everybody lists who they see for their health care? And then you get into, I asked this question, what motivates people to make positive changes? Overwhelming, either a health concern or a loved one? Right, like 979, you could answer more than once. 979 health concerns for a loved 1707 everything else. So the podcasts,

Holly 56:28
selecting from from predetermined options, they could choose

Scott Benner 56:31
health care, health concerns, loved ones, pregnancy, the podcast, other print or online materials, clinical education received from a medical professional connection to diabetes community, other 790 of them listed the podcast.

Holly 56:46
That is amazing. That's great. So I do think it's funny, because I've heard you say this before about people doing people making changes for someone else. And so I just wanted to plant the seed for you that it can people can do things for other people. And sometimes, when someone else comes into your life, what it helps you realize is that you are worthy of care. Yeah. Right. So it's sort of like,

Scott Benner 57:12
I hope they get that out of the conversation. I just, I always ask it that way. Because I want them to realize that they were in a situation that was not optimal, that they could have fixed it anytime on their own, but needed a next year, like a, like an influence to make them go, oh, I should take better care of myself. I just think that's a very human thing.

Holly 57:34
Yeah, I do. But I also think, well, I don't know. And I mean, obviously, we're all influenced by our own experience. But for me, like a big a big thing has always been that, you know, like, I've always tried my best. But I didn't always know what I was doing. I went, you know, years, I went over a decade without having any diabetes professional. Yeah. 10 years, right. And so knowing it, the belief that I am worthy of care is a really core important thing. And not everyone gets that like, not everyone. Not every child grows up feeling that way. And so I think that that also influences how people live as adults with type one.

Scott Benner 58:18
Yeah. I just made a note for myself. I'll talk to Erica about that in an episode. The therapist I talked to, yeah, yeah. Let's see, I there's one thing I want to one other thing I want to tell you out of that, where do you learn how to operate your diabetes devices? Average answer 5.6. It's out of out of six 5.07. From the podcast next closest 3.53 From a medical professional.

Holly 58:48
Yeah. Well, they don't they don't spend a lot of time on this stuff. Like, I always think I've always said this, that I get the what, from my health professionals. But I get the how, from the diabetes community.

Scott Benner 59:00
Yeah. But they don't tell you that that's not the lit, they don't at the end, they don't go, Hey, I didn't tell you nearly enough. You have to go find out the rest on your own.

Holly 59:09
So I've definitely gotten that. And I've had some really good endos over the years, but the endos would never be the people to talk to you about your devices. That would be this. That would be the the nursing staff, the diabetes educators. Yeah. Yeah. Right. So if you don't have that kind of care, right. So when I've had that kind of care when I've been going to a, you know, a shop that has the setup to really support people with type one, then I get better care. Yeah, but at other times, I haven't always had that.

Scott Benner 59:40
Who addresses your psychological needs around diabetes management, the podcast overwhelmingly, you know,

Holly 59:48
well, it's amazing to hear other people's stories. Yeah, I really was.

Scott Benner 59:51
I really didn't recognize that at the beginning. Oh, yeah. I really thought this podcast was going to be me being like, Listen, Pre-Bolus Yes. Then here's why. He did. Try to understand how pizza hits you, and then understand how that's everything else. And like, and I didn't, it wasn't the people told me, like, seriously the people would come on, it was the first time that an adult was going on and on about how valuable the podcast was for them. And I just was like, obviously, the Pro Tip series, just fix them all up. And she said, No, I knew all that already. And I was like, what? Well, I don't understand how the podcast helped. She goes, I don't really either. She's like, just hearing people talking about it everyday made me want to do a better job. And I was like, Oh,

Holly 1:00:33
I think so. A couple of things. I think that hearing other people, at least for me, and I don't know if other people experienced this. But I started listening to diabetes podcasts, including yours. When I was, you know, I been looping for a few years at that point, I'd lost a bunch of weight. So all my settings were off. And I've been sort of tweaking them, but they weren't quite right. Like, you know, when you know, when your settings are, like close, but not there. And everything's just like, it's not smooth. Sure. Yeah. And I headed in and I'd started perimenopause. So like, everything that used to be really predictable, just went completely to insert expletive. Right. Right. And so I was having a hard time. Something that was helpful about listening to stories, was just like, I'm not the only person who's working hard at this. Now, I'm not the only person who is giving energy to this. And I resented it. Like, I didn't want to have to give energy to this. I've so many things that demand my energy. I didn't want to give energy to diabetes. But I knew I needed to, and hearing other people also giving energy to diabetes made me feel better.

Scott Benner 1:01:46
Yeah. I can't believe how much that's true. Actually. Like, it just it certainly is. It's overwhelmingly true. Just absolutely. There's something about that. You saying you didn't want to give energy to it? You think that was a conscious feeling?

Holly 1:02:04
Well, I was consciously aware of it. Yeah. But it wasn't like it wasn't like, I made a conscious decision that I just I was, you know, I was so I mean, you know, heading into perimenopause, you know, you know, like that time of life when you know, you've got I am, I love my job. And I love my students, but it's a lot of work. Ya know, I love my kids, but they're a lot of work, and diabetes, a lot of work. And I only have so much time

Scott Benner 1:02:29
right now. That's kind of what I was trying to eliminate is that I don't think that people, I don't think that they consciously say I'm not going to take good care of myself. I think they want to. And then there are other things that seemed more emergent. And maybe it's partly because of time and effort and desire. Maybe it's because they grew up not feeling valuable. And they don't think they're, you know, deserving of the effort. You know, I don't know. Anyway, I don't know how the other things gonna work so well. But do you frequently listen to other diabetes? Podcasts? No. 1071? So Wow.

Holly 1:03:07
Did your did your student explained selection bias to you?

Scott Benner 1:03:11
Yeah, I do understand that. I know that this isn't a real thing. Right?

Holly 1:03:15
That's a real thing. What are you talking about? That's a real thing? Well, so you just you have to like anytime you run a survey, right? What's really important with surveys is your sampling frame. Right? And how you get people to how you invite people to take the survey, who sees the invitation, who decides to participate, that sort of thing. So you can't claim that the survey population is representative of the larger population of people with type one. Right? Right. But it's not it's it's a real thing.

Scott Benner 1:03:46
My wife is, you know, she's delighted and telling me that she loves making me unhappy. I don't know why I think it's because we've known each other a long time. And so I wasn't an

Holly 1:03:57
image sounds different.

Scott Benner 1:03:58
I wasn't unaware of that. I also don't think she delights in making me unhappy. It just feels that way. Do you ever point something out? And you're like, I shouldn't have said that.

Holly 1:04:09
Yeah, I was

Scott Benner 1:04:11
just teasing. But. So I get that, that people like, voraciously clicked on the link, because they love the podcast already. But I think the point I wanted to make out of that is if you listen to the podcast, apparently this is how you feel. If you've enjoyed it, and it's an it's struck you, right? I'm not saying that if you randomly if I randomly went out and grabbed 1000 People who had diabetes, and gave them the podcast that they'd all love it. I'm sure half of them would hate it. And you know, some of them wouldn't like me or some of them wouldn't jive with how I I know that would all happen. I don't know that. That's important. Because when we're talking about this many people, right, even if it was one in 10 Even if one in 10 people had this experience, then that makes the is very, very valuable those other people, because you what you want to think is, well, those other nine people will find something else that will help them. But that is not necessarily true. It's helpful. And I hope that the online material helped them or they read a book and it helped them or, or another podcast, whatever. Right. But I don't know, like, I just don't know, I don't know another place where you could grab 1100 people who, like if I put up a survey that said, hey, I want you to take a survey about your doctor. And it's got nothing to do with me. I don't think 1100 of them would so overwhelmingly say yes, I found help from this doctor and the rest. And so I am completely aware of what you're saying. This was kind of more for me than anything else.

Holly 1:05:49
I think you know, my beautiful. Yeah. So thank you, oh, well, cuz you've poured your heart and your life into making this.

Scott Benner 1:05:56
I just wanted to see like, because then the other thing was at the end, someone said, Hey, can you put a place where we can like leave a message? And I almost think all these numbers. I don't know how important they are. I think you should read the messages. Oh, you know,

Holly 1:06:13
I'm sure I can't because I'm sure the ethics, the IRB approved it. So I'd particulars around who gets to see the data. But it sounds amazing.

Scott Benner 1:06:21
I'm just the one looking at it. Like nobody else has seen it. But if you saw the feedback, like, like, people start in such a hole, and then they go to a doctor and say helped me. I don't know, like there. Unless I'm wrong. You shouldn't. That story should never end with Oh, and then I found a podcast and everything's okay. Now, that seems wrong to me. Maybe that isn't maybe that's how maybe that's how this is going to work? Like, you know. Yeah, I don't know, in the future.

Holly 1:06:50
People in healthcare settings are constrained. Right, and what they can say and what they can do. That isn't to say they couldn't do better. Yeah. Right. Yeah. But yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I do think I mean, so let me let me give you a compliment that, because I review a lot of papers, and a lot of grants. And a word that often sort of bothers me, when academics use it is empowerment, right? We are going to empower patients, because very often, especially in grants, when I am reading this grant, and they're saying we're going to empower patients. Often what it means is, we're going to figure out a way to make these patients do what we know they should do. That's often the underlying subtext of what they need. And I think what you are doing is actual impairment, because you don't really care. You just want to help people. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:07:48
that's the first thing. I think it's really lovely. She said, Well, thank you, you're very nice. The person who helped me she's like, you know, like, academia is not going to care about this. And I said, oh, did I give you the impression that I cared about that? And, and she's like, what I'm like, I don't care what the establishment thinks of it. Some people will. Yeah, and that's lovely. But like, overall, she's like, you know, she's like, they're, they're not, the questions aren't exactly asked correctly. Like, in the end, I'm like, I don't care. I'm like, it's not, I'm just trying to check to make sure I'm doing what I think I'm doing. That's all because it's gotten too big now. Like, you know, like, when it was smaller, I could like talk to more people and like, okay, you know, I see, there's a group of people feel this way, this group through this, I could, I could kind of feel like it's too big now, like, I don't, I need to make sure the ship is still going in the direction. I think it's going in, and I can't I'm not trying to diss I'm not trying to help everyone. I don't think that's possible. I'm trying to help the people who intersect well with the information. That's all and, and look for ways to, I'll tell you what people do not like, it's easy to say, I asked him about different series, the series that get the worst grades are about how people eat, and about the afterdark stuff. But people also love the afterdark stuff. So what they said in the survey, and what I see in the downloads did not coincide.

Holly 1:09:16
Well, I think that's quite I mean, I think what you're what you're speaking to, is that not everything that you put out is going to resonate with everyone. Sure. Yeah. Right. But there are there are people who, who, with whom those different things may resonate. I think my favorite episode was in the how we it was like a vegan cat. Yes. It was so funny. Oh,

Scott Benner 1:09:37
thank you. Well, please.

Holly 1:09:39
Was that a family?

Scott Benner 1:09:40
I don't remember it was how we Yeah. Vegan cat. Yes.

Holly 1:09:44
Oh, it's killed myself. Like I listened to it while I was reading. I almost fell down.

Scott Benner 1:09:48
Well, thank you. That's very nice. There's party here. I'll share this with you. I don't think the people listening are the best arbiter of what they should hear. No, because they because they don't if they knew they wouldn't need it. Does that make sense?

Holly 1:10:04
Maybe? Yeah, no, that's a fair point. That's your point.

Scott Benner 1:10:06
You don't? I'm sorry. I was gonna say a person who knows what they need, does it? They don't go looking for answers about it.

Holly 1:10:14
Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, no one should ever ask questions, though.

Scott Benner 1:10:19
No, it means that it means that I'm in a unique position to know what will help you before you know what will help you.

Holly 1:10:28
Hmm. Yeah, I don't know. That's not impairment, though.

Scott Benner 1:10:31
No, it's not. But it helps me it helps me structure the podcast. Yeah. And then after that, you do whatever you want with it. And that's where I say like, go like, you're an adult, do your thing. Like, you'll be okay. You can do this. Like, that's where all the empowerment comes into. But if I, if they needed to see my left hand, and I showed them my right hand and empower them, that wouldn't help them. So I'm like, here's the stuff like, look at this stuff. I know you don't want to listen to I know, nobody wants to listen to the idea that the food they take in is very impactful on their health. Like that's not a thing, like a lot of people don't want to know that they want. I think that I think some people do think there's a large section of people who are very in tune with what they I also think there are a lot of people are like, look, I got diabetes, and I really want to eat a Hohoe. And I need this to work out for me. And please don't tell me not to eat the Hohoe. Like, I'm going to eat it like so help. Yeah. And so I

Holly 1:11:26
do that. I do. I don't know. I do. I don't know. Sorry, my I just keep. So I had, I had my first colonoscopy last week. So my perspective on eating has completely. I did not know how much fiber made a difference in my life until I had to eat really low fiber for a week.

Scott Benner 1:11:47
Oh, yeah. And then everything slowed down and was unpleasant. Well,

Holly 1:11:51
so I like a very healthy high fiber, mostly vegetarian diet. And my fiber went down by 74%. And my insulin to carb ratio went up by 70%.

Scott Benner 1:12:05
Yeah, there's a strong correlation between people who eat very like vegan like that, and not eating a ton of events that you can take it a lot of carbs, and still have low variability and things like that. Oh, yeah. Oh, I see what you mean. Okay.

Holly 1:12:21
Yeah, but I didn't I you know, it just I knew intellectually, that fiber is great. Fiber is good for you. And it's good for blood sugar management, but I'd never seen it in my graphs. Until, you know, I'm stuck eating white toast and eggs. And all of a sudden, I'm going all over the place. So they

Scott Benner 1:12:41
need to eat.

Holly 1:12:43
So here the deal is you have to eat low residue, and like, they gave you the list. And I'm like, what, like, there's nothing on this that I actually eat. So I probably could have done more I could, I was just, I was just like, Okay, I mean, eat toast and eggs and yogurt.

Scott Benner 1:12:58
And you so you got like fat from the, from the yogurt more so than normal, you got the spike from the toast. And it's not easy to deal with. And so what I meant was, is that I don't think people like to be hit in the face with the reality that that less processed foods will lead to easier days. Yeah, with diabetes. I think that's the thing that I think that it's important to deal with this the way I talk about it, which is you're going to eat however you want to eat. That's not up to me. I think you need to just understand how insulin works with your diet. Like that, to me is the best thing you can do. But then when I put out the how we eat episodes, I think people saw it as like, don't tell me how to eat. And I was like, I'm not telling you how to eat. I'm telling you. This is how this lady eats. Like, yeah, and here's her story. Maybe you'll find something in it.

Holly 1:13:49
I will say the title like how we eat was a little weird. I'm like, what? Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:13:53
well, how we, everybody. This is how everybody eats. This person needs this way this person needs that way.

Holly 1:14:02
I think what it evokes is an eye in the type one community when you meet people who have who are very much about how they eat. They're not always the most enjoyable people to talk to. So that might be part of what's coming out. They're like the people who are just like, let me tell you about my eating style. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:14:24
no, no, I somebody telling you about their eating style was like listening to a like a reformed like alcoholic explain. Yeah, drinking. Just like I yeah, I don't. I don't. It's fine.

Holly 1:14:34
There's some there's some zealotry out there. Yeah, it is not. And I'm really happy for people who have something that works for them. I just, you know, Oh, yeah. And I think sharing that information in a way that's like, hey, this really works for me is great. I worry sometimes about the everyone should do this.

Scott Benner 1:14:53
Yeah, I've learned that the Internet doesn't work the way people are scared. The internet works. But I mean, what do I mean? Okay? There's a there's a phrasing that people use. I've noticed online that and they say that like, it's this thing that is definitely happening in the world because I saw it, I saw it like three times definitely is happening. It's like when somebody tells you this code for Dexcom CGM is bad. It's a randomized code that gets put on. It's not like there's a box of CGM somewhere and they make it like this code number. And all of them in there have the same. I don't know, they act the same way. But people think that way. So you see,

Holly 1:15:34
what's a calibration? It's it's basically it sort of like a fudge factor.

Scott Benner 1:15:38
Yeah. But my point is, they get these four digit codes, right. So so so somebody will come out and say, I noticed that this number isn't good. And they'll literally they'll come to that conclusion, because they have one that didn't last 10 days, and had that number on it. And online, they saw somebody else say that there's didn't last that long. And it also had the same number. So see if the number

Holly 1:16:00
or well they would be coming from the same batch, wouldn't they

Scott Benner 1:16:03
know, I think they're randomized. I believe they're just random,

Holly 1:16:07
random. Why would they why would they have a random number?

Scott Benner 1:16:11
It's no, I'll talk to him. But it's the code that it's just the code that connects the CGM to anyway, I used the bad example. Here's my next exam. Yeah,

Holly 1:16:20
I think you're trying to make the point that people draw large draw very generalized conclusions from like, minor interactions online, and they assume that everything is like that. And it's not.

Scott Benner 1:16:31
So I know, a lot of people who eat low carb who aren't crazy. Yeah, me too. And just because the same 10 People are ringing a bell and lighting fires and telling you, you have to eat low carb, or you're killing yourself doesn't mean that everybody who eats low carb feels that way. But it feels like that when you're online that's happening. And yeah, I think it can it can, you know, it feels like, look, you know, every time I mentioned this, there's always an argument. And I always say like, Did you not notice you're always arguing with the same five people? Like, it's, it's not like the whole world's against you. And every time you say it out loud, we learned that the whole world doesn't agree with you. It's these five people who just believe that they're using their online influence, to say something that is very important to them, right? Like they are struggling, and they're not now. And it's because of this thing. And it turns into proselytizing. They're like, you have to do this, because it worked for them. And it's not to say that it won't work for somebody else. It might it's the veracity comes from they think it saved their life. You know, and like, like I might have, and it very it very well might have been there's nothing wrong with it. But you can't do what you just said like you can't let the masses think there's one way to do a thing. Because the first time you tell somebody, if you don't eat like this, you can't control your blood sugar. If that person's like, well, I can't eat like that. Then they just give it away, then they're like, well, then I guess I don't get to. I don't get to I don't get to be healthy. You know, because I'm not going to eat this way. And I think they give up. And that is important. It's the one thing I don't allow on the Facebook group is you can't tell people how to eat. On the Facebook group. If somebody comes on. It's like, look, I'm trying to Bolus for a Slurpee and a pretzel at a 711. If you know how to do that, tell them and if it is your inclination to tell them not to eat it. You can't do that. Like that doesn't help. Their eating. It's too late. Yeah, now that now if you can tell them how to Bolus work great. And if you can't, then shut up and leave. And so I'm

Holly 1:18:40
very impressed at someone who can Bolus first locrian a pretzel Did

Scott Benner 1:18:43
I hit we when we were in on a trip with our family? Just now. We all went to a movie one night, and art and standing there and she goes, I'm going to get that Mountain Dew. I see. Like, yeah, she was I am I'm getting that. And I was like, Okay, so the girl comes over and she goes, Do you want the artists like what sizes they come in? And the girls like large and medium? And artists like oh, okay, I'll get a large. Well, I don't know what world these Oh my god. I mean is as big as my monitor. It was like, like, two people had to carry it. It's just juice. This is this giant thing. And I was like, Can you Bolus for that? And she's like, Yeah, I think so. And I was like, Okay, so that's awesome. gave herself an insane amount of insulin. And then when and basically, you're basically doing it. I don't know how to explain this. I do not explain this. It's um you know, when you have a high blood sugar and you put an insulin to push it down, right? Yeah. Okay. Or you have a low blood sugar is probably a better example. You have a low blood sugar and you put food in to push it up. So you create the possibility of the low without with the Bolus. And then you feed it up with the Slurpee, right. Instead of trying to think about how do I conquer the Slurpee. Yeah, with insulin, I think about it as how do I conquer the insulin with the Slurpee? In that? It's a it's a slight difference. But it's important, right? So she just gave herself a, and you ask like people would be like, well, how much? I don't know, a lot. Like, because how many carbs are that? I have no idea. How are we going to find out? I have no idea. So you just give yourself a bunch of insulin, and then you keep feeding the insulin. You wouldn't do that in your regular life. But to conquer this one thing? Yeah, this is how you do

Holly 1:20:32
it. It's like holiday holiday management. Right? Here, when you hear people say, like, an extra insulin. And then

Scott Benner 1:20:38
I'm gonna, I'm gonna jack up my basil a little bit today, because I'm going to be grazing all day. Like, it's the same kind of idea. It's just finding a balance between the insulin and the food.

Holly 1:20:46
It's interesting now for old time, like, those of us who are old, like, you know, I grew up in the, you eat these foods at this time. Right? Right. So it's an interesting transition.

Scott Benner 1:20:59
Also, not for nothing. But for many of the people who tell me they grew up the way you do. They all have your body style. Like your fit. Yeah, I'm right about that. Right. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so are Jenny talks about it Jenny's fit, like she she ate, she ate? Well, diabetes, because of the technology of the time, including insulin. diabetes forced her to eat well, and that's just how she eats now. And now we're in a situation where it's 2023. And, you know, nutrition is not the same as it was. And by the way, maybe it wouldn't have been the same for Jenny. If she didn't have diabetes, I have no idea, right? But it's not the way it's just not the way it is anymore. Like there's so much processed food, people have so much access to food, there's so much snacking, like that kind of stuff, because it's all available, available available. My stance is just what I said earlier. Like, I don't know that it's right to eat hohos. Like, probably you shouldn't. But in a world where you have diabetes, and you're going to anyway, you should know how to do it without hurting yourself long term, like, blood sugar wise, I'm not saying the Hohoe still not hurting you, which is another thing you have to say to people like, just because you Bolus for it well, doesn't make it not a HoHo.

Holly 1:22:14
Like, right. In addition to in addition to blood sugar, you still have, you know, a cardiovascular system that you may have heard about. Yes.

Scott Benner 1:22:21
And that is a problem like for diabetes is that and I've tried to bring it up as much as I can think to. Yeah, just because you Bolus for it without a spike, and without getting low later doesn't make it a healthy decision. You just stopped it from being a bad diabetes issue. Yeah. Right. And so anyway, there's a way to I get to say all that. I blend it all into the podcast. Yeah. Because if we just settle all at once people get pissed. Yeah, you know,

Holly 1:22:45
so have you, Jenny ever done an exercise? More on exercise? I would love to hear that. We have an exercise process. You did? I did not like it. Yeah. You didn't like her. And I love you. And I really liked your podcast, but I what was wrong with it? I don't know if that was the one. But I will tell you a story. I was heading out on a run. So I run a lot. And I was running, I was heading out on a long run. So I'd had food and I Bolus for it. Before I ate because I was about to run like 2025 kilometers. Yeah. It's takes me about two hours. And I'm listening to podcasts and one of one of yours comes on. And I remember this, I was coming around the corner. And I heard your voice in my ear say, I think you just shouldn't exercise with active insulin on board. And I said out loud, BLEEP you, Scott, how about I just don't live my life then. Some guy walking by it's like, I don't usually talk to podcasts while I'm running. But no, I do think I do think that it is easier. It's easier to exercise without active insulin on board. But then you have to structure your whole life around when you're going to eat or when you're gonna have insulin and that sort of thing. And it makes it very difficult to have an active life.

Scott Benner 1:24:00
Yes. So that's a that's a painting with a broad brush statement. Like because you're Yeah, if you asked me how to do it. Yeah, I wouldn't say that to you. Because you're a person who goes out and runs like some insane amount of distance. Whatever you just said sounded horrible. I don't drive that far. And like so what you just did that? Hey, you just drove that I just drove like 1500 miles round trip. Yeah, but But my point is, like 15 minutes in your car. i My point is, is that is that most people? There's a spot where I'm no better than a doctor really? Who tells you like, here's the launching in place, you're gonna have to figure out the rest of it yourself. Because I don't know everybody's level of exercise. But

Holly 1:24:39
Jenny was like, like, I knew who she was before I heard your podcast, cuz she's known. Yeah. Like she was on the board of set of when I don't remember the name of it, but it was like women athletes with type one. Right? Right. So she knows what she's talking about. I would love to hear like an issue about what she does. How does she manage her blood sugar or On the activity that she does,

Scott Benner 1:25:01
what if she just jumps on and says, I just make sure I don't have any active insulin when I'm running. But if she said that, thanks. So I do think there are people who are like, I mean, I had Chris Freeman on recently. Yeah. Right. He's talking about, like, sucking down goo packs, and like, you know, eating certain things beforehand and keeping his blood sugar higher while he's doing stuff, but not too high. So it doesn't impact how he is. It depends on how much effort you want to put into it.

Holly 1:25:27
Now, that's true. Yeah. But I do think I mean, I think one of the things, and it's very, it's much more old school, right? But you can also use exercise to essentially beef up your insulin. Right? So if you've got a kid who's spiking after a meal, so not tied to play in the play in the yard for a while, you know,

Scott Benner 1:25:47
a lot, some people get pissed about that, when you say that. Oh, really? Yeah, I once watched some, I don't know, because people sometimes tell them what to do. I was gonna say unstable. But I don't know, I just remember, I remember a big, like, it depends on how the information is presented. Like I've had a person on the podcast, who would tell a story about like, I had to run around the house 10 times that of a cookie, like you go, right. Or my mom would make me run up and down the steps five times, and then I could have a snack. In context. People are like, that's great. But one guy one time gets online and says, Hey, I bought my daughter, this mini trampoline to help with their high blood sugars. And before I knew it, people were like, I don't know, like the woke mob got a hold of him. And it's just like you're forcing her to exercise. It only takes one unstable person to say something to draw out for more unstable people to make it seem like the entire internet is full of unstable people. And then one guy who's just like, I just wanted to tell you that there's a $20 Trampoline at Toys R us.com. Please leave me alone, you know, like, like is, is is caught in this thing. So I do know that some people have a sensitivity to that. And what I tried

Holly 1:27:01
different from the you know, you shouldn't need that.

Scott Benner 1:27:05
No, I think everybody's got a sensitivity to something. Yeah. Not that I don't care about their sensitivities. But I don't. I'm just from the wrong generation.

Holly 1:27:15
I'm not I mean, you're about we're about the same age. I'm 51.

Scott Benner 1:27:19
So, same, there are plenty of things in the world that make me uncomfortable, it would never occur to me to ask someone not to do them. If they were like, if it was their thing, you know, but there are plenty of people.

Holly 1:27:32
I just wonder if everyone knows, right, like, you know, that if you you know, if you inject close to your big your big leg muscles, and then you go for a walk, right, that correction factor is gonna hit you,

Scott Benner 1:27:47
right? I have somebody I just recorded with somebody who talked about the heel raises, like you Oh,

Holly 1:27:54
yeah. soleus soleus Caffrey.

Scott Benner 1:27:56
Yeah, how that can help burn blood. Right. And, and that's cool. Like, I'll put that

Holly 1:28:01
I saw that paper that made that paper made made the rounds of the sort of bro science,

Scott Benner 1:28:07
right? 100%. And I'm not saying that it's like, gonna make your blood sugar go from 300 to 150 or something like that. But if you're sitting at your desk, and you do that, and it takes 20 Points off your blood sugar, like cool, you know, and there's a reasonable amount of bike. Yeah. And if it doesn't do that for you, cool. Like, I don't care. I'm like, I'm the girl wanted to say it. Oh, my God said like, it's fine. But I took a risk having her on. Because she's going to be it hasn't been out yet. But she's a person who wears a CGM who doesn't have diabetes? Oh, so so she's gonna come on. Look, there are some stuff she said that was like that kind of like, like, I think. I think there's a difference between bro science and ahead of the curve. Yeah, we also, we also always made it clear to you, but we don't always know which is which at the time, but it doesn't hurt to say them out loud. Like, I mean, she's talked about apple cider vinegar, and how it how it she wasn't talking about type ones. She was talking about general health. And I said, like, what am I going to like? A lot. A number of people who listen to this podcast said, Hey, this girl has been really helpful to me. Okay. Can you have her on the podcast? I'm like, Yeah, sure. I don't know if what she said is right or wrong. Who cares? Like just like, yeah, like so.

Holly 1:29:24
I will just tell you that when I was a teenager, and we moved cities, I did not get set up. I did not. So my mom did not set me up with any diabetes care. But I was encouraged to repeat mantras, about the sweetness of life. So if your podcast goes down that road, I'm going to stop.

Scott Benner 1:29:43
That's where you'll go. Well, you know, somebody asked me that somebody asked me to do affirmations once. Like, could you have short podcasts of just like daily affirmations for people? And I was like, I don't know. Maybe, maybe not. We'll see. I decided with the podcast says here's what the podcast is. It's how I learned to take Care diabetes, do what you want with that. I think type one diabetes is mainly timing and amount of insulin. That's basically what I think it is. I think

Holly 1:30:10
it is. It's just that's that can be really hard to figure out

Scott Benner 1:30:13
unless you turn the whole thing into a bunch of T shirt slogans that everybody can understand. Remember when they need, which is what I feel like I've done? Yeah. And I also know that the conversations are very important, like in this survey, like you'd be surprised people, like I thought people would be like, This is what I want to hear. This is what I want to hear. I love it when two people just talk about diabetes, or I want management conversation, but I let them choose as many as they wanted. And what I learned is that overwhelmingly, they like both did they don't have a preference.

Holly 1:30:46
It's I really liked the ask Scott and Jenny ones

Scott Benner 1:30:49
do. Yeah, we do this. We have. Trust me. We have questions piled up actually, it's so funny. You said that. Yesterday, I said to my wife, I wonder if I could do like ask Scott and Jenny's and put them behind, like a paywall. And so that and then let them out after they're older, because I'm looking for ways to create, you know, some sort of more income like I'm trying to help Jenny's who like, I'd like to be able to gesture and make any money to come on the podcast at all. Like so.

Holly 1:31:19
Although she does I mean, it doesn't it must drive great interest in Integrated diabetes. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:31:25
she's the probably the most, she's probably the most popular person who does what she does in the world. But I think it takes six months to get in with Jenny at this point because of because of the podcast. So its own the business, right? She's lovely. And she doesn't own the business. So it's not like she's piling up money. She's just working harder, get anything. Anyway, so I was thinking about that, but it's nice to hear

Holly 1:31:46
you get a finder's fee, some sort of commission.

Scott Benner 1:31:48
I've mentioned that to her. Like, maybe you want to get a piece in I mean, so anyway, that's between her and whoever she works for. I don't know, I don't know what we talked about.

Holly 1:31:58
It's always sad when something that was free become goes behind a paywall, but I do I mean, I totally understand I

Scott Benner 1:32:04
wouldn't put the whole show behind it like literally just like, like bits and pieces that eventually would come out in the public anyway. Or maybe just I've also thought about pay walling like cursing people. If any idea how many people want me to curse on the podcast,

Holly 1:32:18
that would be that would be smart. I think that would be

Scott Benner 1:32:21
maybe just one word. Nobody believes anything out. And you hear my story about my mom and her dirty ass and I'm and all the words that I used while I was yelling at those people.

Holly 1:32:32
Maybe it's your record that call with them. Oh, okay to listen,

Scott Benner 1:32:37
I'll tell you what, like a car wreck you'd we'll look at it. I was like, but after it was over my brother's like you Okay, and I'm like, how was I not? Okay, I have the very unenviable ability to be angry and make sense at the same time.

Holly 1:32:54
How was that unenviable? That's great. Well, it's

Scott Benner 1:32:56
for me, it's great for the people on the other end, it's bad. So like imagine I unenviable is the wrong word. If you and I were in an argument, and I was agitated, talking quicker than I usually do. Yelling and making sense. How do you keep up with that? Oh, I could keep up you could and then a lot of people that some people can't. And so like I I try not to overwhelm situations because I know. Yeah, I know I can. So I'm joking. I might not be able to keep up. Oh, it's off put my also have a deep voice. So just over the phone. Yeah, I sound like a, like you mentioned earlier like sometimes people listen to men over women. Oh, yeah. Right. And so then you add a deep voice to it. I'm authoritative. I trust myself. So you don't hear a lot of I don't do a lot of things where I'm questioning what I just said. I don't use language to put you in a better position that I'm in. When I'm in having a conversation like that. By that's why when my wife's like, you have to let them feel and I'm like, can't we just point out that they suck.

Holly 1:34:02
And move on to practice because you have a practice meeting. We did it in the car and get all your emotions out.

Scott Benner 1:34:08
We did it in the car yesterday, my brother my brother called I was in the car with Callie, we were driving home from the vacation. And for like 45 minutes. They were like, you can't say that. Don't say that. Don't say that.

Holly 1:34:19
And I was like, no, no, I mean, like an actual practice where they let you say it all. And then you debrief.

Scott Benner 1:34:25
Oh, I said it all and then they debrief me in the car. So it's okay. Anyway, what I decided is I'm just going to treat this situation like it's a podcast. Yeah. Where I wouldn't like purposely insult somebody. Yeah, although sometimes I say some stuff on there sometimes where I'm like, I should have said that. But that often.

Holly 1:34:46
Has anyone ever been offended or upset about it? Right? No. There's a dynamic when you're just joking with people, you know, they feel and it's not I think people like that. I like that.

Scott Benner 1:34:58
We're gonna be done the minute The first thing I'm going to ask you when we're done is your Are you okay? With everything we talked about? No. And if you were to say to me like, I hated this, like, Don't ever let anybody here and I'd be like, All right, I mean, it sucks for me. But I one time, one time, I can tell you afterwards because but one time and conversation took such a strange turn, that it wasn't a fault of any it wasn't. Anyway, I didn't do anything wrong. And it just that we both got to Unreal. Like we shouldn't let anybody listen to that. And I was like, Yeah, I agree. And that was the end of it. So. So it got deleted. Is there anything we didn't talk about that we should have? I don't know. What? Yeah, what about

Holly 1:35:45
one on your podcast has ever explained standard deviation really? Well, even the guy from Dexcom. So he knows what he's talking about. But he's not

Scott Benner 1:35:52
great at explaining. He was a nerd. Like diabetes nerd.

Holly 1:35:57
I mean, as a nerd, I respect what he was trying to do there. All right.

Scott Benner 1:36:03
Find somebody who can more colloquially describe standard deviation.

Holly 1:36:07
Yeah, no, I'm being very nitpicky. My podcast is amazing.

Scott Benner 1:36:10
I'm amazed that you came. I said, my podcast is amazing. I'm amazed you came up with something.

Holly 1:36:16
It is. No, it's I really appreciate it. And I don't you know, I was saying how I found it when I was struggling. You know what, I started with the pro tips. Yeah. And it was not, it wasn't the content, because it wasn't that I didn't know that stuff. It was that I was exhausted. And I needed and I really appreciated the structure of it. I'm like, Okay, I have to do some stuff. I have to work on my set. Okay, basil. All right. This week, I'm gonna focus on basil, you know, and it was just really helpful. So thank you.

Scott Benner 1:36:45
I'm glad I tell you. I was with Arden for like, eight days this week, right. And about two days before it was done. We were at a restaurant. I said, I think I wanted to. I said, I think you know this, but you're doing a very good job with your diabetes stuff at college. And she's like, she didn't really say much. And I said, you do just an exceptionally good job. And I know how difficult it must be. But But I just want to tell you how great you're doing it. And she said, thank you. And I said, I knew I should require no, Arden wouldn't cry if you were stabbing. So by the way, that's not an invitation for someone to stab my kid, please. Anybody pleased? So then, I said, you hear me? Right? And she was Yeah. I said, I'm really it's exceptional what you're doing. And she's like, Okay, I said, having said that, there are two things you're not doing that I need you to do. And I said, You are not Pre-Bolus thing well enough. And she goes, I know I'm trying and I said, I know you are try harder. And and she's nice. And she's like, what else am I not doing? And I said you're not correcting highs quickly enough. And she's like, I get busy with work. And I said, I know. Just she still wasn't she looping? Yeah, she is. But she's eating at a college and the food's terrible. And then she's not Pre-Bolus eating enough. And like in time distance on our Pre-Bolus She's not afraid of insulin, like so. Like, she just doesn't have a long enough Pre-Bolus. And she's seeing a spike. And then she's letting the loop handle it. Which is cool, because it ends up okay, but I'm like, don't do that. Like, it's not as fast as you do it. She's had a small rise in her agency. But I mean to say that it's I think it's like six, two or six, four or something like that.

Holly 1:38:32
college kid. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:38:34
it's amazing. She's doing terrific. But I'm like, we could get back in the fives if you just did these two things. And and she and I said long term health. You know, I'm not pushing her about it. Like I'm getting too slow. But I'm like, it's important for your long term health. And I said, also, you're sitting down trying to do something for three hours at school, and your blood sugar is 180 or 200 for an hour and a half. Like that's not valuable for you. It's making it more difficult for you. So that's it for her.

Holly 1:39:02
I find your focus better woman higher,

Scott Benner 1:39:03
do you really? Yeah, she gets more like hyper focused.

Holly 1:39:07
Like I'm like, Alright, I'm gonna write this paper and it's gonna get done.

Scott Benner 1:39:11
It's like your Adderall is the high blood we see now you earlier said we shouldn't say things that people could misconstrue. Now we're like, leave your blood sugar high to get a nice Adderall effect. No, I.

Holly 1:39:23
I mean, I'm very honest about you know, like, I don't see any. And I do think it's important for parents to understand that, you know, some no one ever asked me, right. How do you feel in your high? Right? No, and had they asked I would have said I feel really good and relaxed and not scared.

Scott Benner 1:39:43
Yeah, no, I think my bigger concern with her being higher in the evenings while she's doing work, isn't it's not the blood sugar as much is it that when it's over and she's refocused on her diabetes, she makes a Bolus then she goes to sleep. Oh, yeah. And so it creates like Have time at three in the morning where you're not sure. Like if somebody should be paying attention or not. So like, I'm more about like, don't get high, so you don't get low. And so

Holly 1:40:09
I say, I think, like to you and to other parents, it's really beautiful. What you do for your kids? What else you're like, oh, no, that level of support? Yeah, is and I think as an adult who didn't always get that, as a kid, I see how beautiful it is. And I don't know if the kids will ever be able to see it. Because they'll always have had that and they will. They won't know any different. Yeah. But as an adult who didn't get that as a kid, that is beautiful. That level of

Scott Benner 1:40:40
support. That's very nice to you to say. And I forgot your perspective, which was from a woman who smoked in front of your sister was good. But not it's very nice. I listen, maybe one day, I don't know. I'm gonna make so many podcasts. I used to think my kids will listen to this after I'm dead. And now I'm like, I bet you my kids look at that and go I can't take him for that long.

Holly 1:41:00
So it's kind of amazing. No, I mean, it's gorgeous.

Scott Benner 1:41:04
Yeah, it's my it's like a little time capsule. I kept for them. Yeah. Anyway, all right. I'm gonna go yell. It's I mean, I'm gonna go listen to some people tell me how they tried to kill my mom again. And I'm gonna refrain from mentioning that part of it out loud. Good luck. Thank you very much. Hold on one second, I will tell you.

A huge thank you to one of today's sponsors, GE voc glucagon. Find out more about Chivo Capo pen at G Vogue glucagon.com forward slash juicebox. you spell that GVOKEGLUC AG o n.com. Forward slash juicebox. I also want to thank ag one and remind you to drink ag one.com/juicebox. Get your free year supply of vitamin D and five free travel packs when you use my link for your first order. I also want to thank Holly for coming on the show and giving me such a great conversation. Don't forget the Juicebox Podcast private Facebook group. And those diabetes protests that began in Episode 1000. A diabetes diagnosis comes with a lot of new terminology. And that's why I've created the defining diabetes series. These are short episodes, where Jenny Smith and I go over all of the terms that you're going to hear living with diabetes, and some of them that you might not hear every day, from the very simple Bolus up to feed on the floor. Don't know the difference between hypo and hyper. We'll explain it to you. These are short episodes, they are not boring. They're fun, and they're informative. It's not just us reading to you out of the dictionary, we take the time to chat about all of these different words. Maybe you don't know what a coup small respiration is, you will when you're done. Ever heard of a glycemic index and load haven't doesn't matter. You will know after you listen to the defining diabetes series. Now, how do you find it, you go to juicebox podcast.com up top to the menu and click on defining diabetes. You'll be able to listen right there in your browser. Or you'll see the full list of the episodes and be able to go into an audio app like Apple podcasts or Spotify and listen to them at your pace. Download them into your phone and listen when you can. The defining diabetes series is made up of 51 short episodes. That will fast forward your knowledge of diabetes terminology

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