#1049 Parenting: Brainstorming the Series

October 26, 2023Scott Benner

Erika is a licensed marriage and family therapist who herself has had Type 1 diabetes for over 30 years and who specializes in working with people with diabetes and their families and caregivers—from those newly diagnosed to those experiencing it for decades. Today, she and Scott launch a parenting series.

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Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 1049 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Today I'm welcoming back Erica Forsythe and Eric and I are going to do something a little different than what we've done in the past. We're going to build an entire series around an idea. That series, as you can tell from the title is about parenting, it's going to expand beyond type one diabetes. But at the same time, I think that parenting skills and diabetes parenting skills go hand in hand. While you're listening. Please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. If at any point in this series, you think I'd like to check Eric out, she has a great website, Erica forsyth.com. She sees patients virtually and in person. If you're a California resident, check out her website to see what states Erica is licensed in. If you'd like to save 40% off of your entire order at cozy earth.com, you can do that with the offer code juice box at checkout. And to get a free year supply of vitamin D and five free travel packs with your first order use my link drink ag one.com/juice box. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by us med us med is the place where Arden gets her diabetes supplies from her Dexcom and her Omni pods. But they have much more than that. You'll learn more about them when you check them out at us med.com/juicebox Or by calling 888-721-1514 You can get your supplies the same way we do from us med. Okay, so just so you know, like I've hit record already. Okay. All right. So I Okay, where do we want to start with this? You and I have never done this this way before. But this this is a pretty common thing that Jenny and I do. So Jenny, and I used to brainstorm privately about series. And then one day I said why don't we record the brainstorming and make that the first episode of the series. That way people can listen, decide if it's something they're interested in and get a fair idea for the direction we're gonna go in. So you and I are going to try that. Let's go. Yes, no, I was worried. I was worried. Because you are a careful speaker.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 2:46
Yes, yes.

Scott Benner 2:50
I still don't I don't think that matters. I think we can do this. So I'll give you a little bit of my thought. And then we'll figure it out. So I was thinking we could do sort of a parenting list like, I don't know, the first way it popped in my head was, you know, what are the worst parenting mistakes that you've seen in your job? And I thought through that, there's something and then I started thinking about a little more, I thought, well, maybe there are also good things that you've seen that are valuable. And like so I don't know what we'll call the episode yet. I think we'll figure that out as we're going. But I'm wondering if we couldn't build a list of things that you have seen that have been valuable things that you've seen that have been detrimental? And maybe a little bit of what's in between? Does that make sense? Yes. Okay. Yes. I'm gonna open up a file because you're, you're gonna be the thinker today. So I'll be the TypeR.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 3:49
Okay. I think it might be important to note before we start listing, you know, parenting mistakes, communication, mistakes, errors, just to not say the obvious that parenting is one of the most challenging things ever in life. And speaking as a parent, I am not I am far from perfect and make these mistakes myself. And but I'm sure Scott, you never do

Scott Benner 4:18
think my whole life is a parenting mistake, I would imagine. Well, you know what, I meant that to be funny, but it might be true. No, I don't mean just me. I mean, somebody parented somebody made a mistake lead to another thing that led to me that led to Bob about maybe it is all a learning mistake. But no, I think that so I don't think about it the same way. I don't think of things I do is like mistakes or wins or something like that. But I do think it's a continual learn learning process, but that there is a sweet spot and you no matter where you jump in, if you're not ready I don't know how to put this, you're going to be doing micro damages that, that you may never be aware of, or that may not like rear their head for, I don't know, 10 years or two generations, I have no idea. But it's such a bizarre feeling to think that I have the ability to do something that will create a problem or a, you know, a good thing for somebody that I might never even meet. super interesting.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 5:33
generationally, yes. Yeah. It's crazy generational patterns. Yeah. And I think even what you said, you know, you might not be ready most of us are most parents aren't. What? And how would you define ready? What does it mean to feel ready to parent another? That's another conversation too, but I think you do. It is an evolution of learning. And maybe mistakes is even the wrong word to use. And I think the first step would be the awareness piece, right? You might be acting or parenting in a way that you are not aware. That could be causing pain or suffering or damage. But that also might be a result of your own pain and suffering as a child, as well.

Scott Benner 6:18
Let's let's do something first, before we move, okay, because you're just right. I don't think I don't think of it as a mistake, either. You know, like, I had kids, when I was fairly young, I would be a different parent if those kids came out today. Right. But, you know, if you, if you use the Magic Wand idea where you took the thoughts in my head now and put them in the thoughts in my head when I was in 20, then I think overall, things might have turned out better. Like, and I don't say that they turned out poorly. I just there may have been, you know, I don't know, better decisions made them there by me. But if you make me 52 years old, and give me a baby right now, well, then I'm going to make some better decisions. And then some things aren't going to be nearly as good because I'm not have the same energy or etc. Right. But I guess the idea is, is to share with people, things that we've seen in our own personal lives, or that you've seen clinically, that with reasonable certainty led to something, but I don't want to call them mistakes. So let's find better words, and you'll be good. So what did we call it? Because I said mistakes and winds, which was way wrong, like it just not smooth? What are we really talking about?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 7:35
Patterns, maybe? Negative, harmful, harmful decisions, harmful patterns? inconsistent? Yeah, I guess patterns is there is really the, because we might have a really good method of disciplining. And then we might make, we might forget, or we might be tired. But it's really we're talking about the over, over time saying or doing the same thing, without changing or without either having the awareness or desire or the know how of how to change and in effect, positive change in your relationship with your child.

Scott Benner 8:21
So somebody asked me the other day that we were talking about, like interpersonal communication. And I said, the one of the things about me that I'm proud about as a as a matured person, is that I'm incredibly consistent. Like, like, and that person said back to me, you're very authentic. And I said, Well, that may be, but I'm consistent. If you ask me a question at 8am or midnight, you're gonna get the same answer for me that, you know, if it happens on Wednesday, or Sunday, or December, and everybody's had that Christmas anxiety or whatever I, I, I'm basically a common sense person. So I don't get ruled a lot by the things going on around me, if that makes sense. And I think consistency is incredibly important for anything for parenting. I think consistency is why the podcast as well, you know, and I don't even just mean like, what you're hearing. I mean, the way the podcast gets made when it comes out what people expect, right? And that's a trust. Like, think of that for a second, if you consistently make the podcast people trust that this thing is going to happen. That's what consistency brings to parenting. Is this comfort, right? Like, I hear my wife discuss sometimes, how she never knew what was going to happen. Mm hmm. And she once told me how she felt manipulated as a child. When if they were acting up, her mom would say, Hey, guys, if you're good for the rest of the day, we're gonna go to McDonald's. And then no matter how good They were or weren't. They were not going to McDonald's, like, and so it never happened. So it was like, it was like this carrot on a stick. That wasn't real. But the kids didn't know it. Mom probably couldn't even afford to go to McDonald's. She just said a thing she thought would shut them up for a couple of hours. You know what I mean? But interestingly, as an adult, four decades later, that feeling that it bred in my wife, I think it's still tournaments are the idea that you can't trust people when they they say things to you sometimes. So you don't I mean,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 10:35
yeah, so and that might also create their narrative for as a child growing into an adult that no matter what I do, I'm never good enough. Okay, that's pretty, that's pretty common.

Scott Benner 10:46
Yeah, that's so cool that you said that, not that that happens to people. But that, right, like, even a thing that, listen it again, we get in a time machine, go find my wife's Mom, 50 years ago, and say to her, what were you doing, when you did that? She's probably gonna say, look, I was out of my mind, I had four kids, you know, like, I needed them to stop, I had stuff to do, like, whatever. If you said to her, then that action turned one of your kids into somebody who doesn't believe their parents, and that that has ripple effects in their own life. And by the way, the thing you just said, and by the way, if we put four more voices on this conversation, for more people might come up with four other things that come from that. That's the kind of stuff you can't know, while you're doing it. So there has to be some sort of consistency to your decision making to stop these unintended and undesired outcomes. That, you know. I don't know that that's it, right? Like, okay, but still good conversation. But we did not come up with better word, a word good or bad. So Hey, viewers, why don't we just said positive? I just need language for my conversation, or I'm gonna fun for over it. So I'm gonna say positive. And for the moment, I'm gonna say unintended. Hmm, I like that. Okay. Or is it intended and unintended, positive intended? Everything I

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 12:16
did intentionally unintentional

Scott Benner 12:19
unintended. Maybe the conversation is going to reveal the words. So maybe the people listening right now are yelling a word in their car,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 12:27
they might say, yes, please share it.

Scott Benner 12:29
I've thought of this. Okay, so let's just I know, your brain doesn't work like this. So we'll get this out of the way first, okay, unintended things that people do, that you see over and over again, that don't lead to good outcomes.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 12:48
I think we could start with what you shared the example of your wife, the inconsistent discipline, slash motivation, okay? Just like the the, if you're good, then this will happen. And no matter how good the child was, they never got it. But I also, you know, you could see, the converse of that is, no matter what happens, the child gets the McDonald's. Okay, so, yeah, so it's just inconsistent follow through in the discipline slash motivation,

Scott Benner 13:26
or sprinkling some sort of praise or gifts on them for no reason. It's just as bad. So what's that idea of just kind of like, blindly?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 13:42
Oh, you know, usually people say nowadays, like everyone gets a trophy parenting. Yeah, praising, praising for every little thing, and not. Which could be again, going back to maybe as a child, you were not affirmed for any kind of behavior. And only were disciplined for negative. And so maybe as a parent, you're saying to yourself, I'm going to flip that, and I'm gonna praise the heck out of my child because I never got that. As a kid.

Scott Benner 14:16
I'm calling that Cecil over corrections. Nice. Because, because that's really how I think of it like right, you grow up being treated poorly. And then you want you want to correct that action. So as a parent yourself, you overcorrect and then instead of doing the right thing, you end up just making a different mistake. Correct. Right. So okay,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 14:48
a different choice in how to parent Yeah, a different choice.

Scott Benner 14:51
But it's not just a choice, right? Because you can say, I'm going to be more positive than my parents were. But what happens when it gets into that space where your kid walks over? Around believing that everything they do is perfection, like, right, like that's an overcorrection.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 15:07
Yes. And you might see if a if a child gets in trouble for the sun making, you know, something at school, maybe the parents might have a challenging time, acknowledging that the child could do something like that.

Scott Benner 15:25
Yeah, that's a great example. A teacher says, Hey, your kid did this, you know, my kid doesn't do those things. What are you talking? Yeah, great. But I even mean, the I mean, we all No, a child who, who believes in themselves more than they should did it. And I don't mean that you shouldn't believe in yourself. I mean, like, obviously, you want to instill, you know, good self confidence in people and self esteem. But when there's this belief that there's nothing you do that's ever been wrong, or even worth questioning you, it's how you make an asshole. Yeah,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 16:03
yes. Well, and just it's very, maybe a black and white thinking or rigid thinking and perspective of themselves, where they cannot except they might make an error. This is rare, I would say we usually see more children and teens and adults with lower self esteem. Right? It's rare to see the bravado kid, but it does happen.

Scott Benner 16:27
Yeah, well, not to say that maybe those kids don't end up in therapy. But they are out in the world, having a bad experience, whether they know it or not, maybe they're pretending it's not a bad experience, because I'm terrific. And you must understand how amazing I am. So. But you know, I have an example I've used in the podcast before, I'm not going to like belabor it here. But I've met a kid like that is the only the only child I've ever met my entire life that I couldn't find a way to like, get you know, it was really something. And then you look back at the parenting structure. And there's one parent who's kind of quiet in the background very kind, I've never had a bad interaction with a person once in my life. Then there was another parent who was a monster. But the monster was the one pumping up the kid. And it was interesting, like, again, nasty person, I guess is the way I want to say it. Like you could see like, I don't know how to put this, like when you're speaking to them, you can see ill intentions behind their eyes, like they're calculating everything. They're sure they're better than you, and everyone around you, they've put this into the kid. And the other spouse seemed too kind to do anything about it. That makes sense. So that is that's another that's another thing you could do, I'm still going to just stick with wrong for now. But so you could overpower the other parent and not allow their input.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 18:08
So I'd say having a united front would be the positive maybe spin on that. So okay, being united in in parenting, the decisions you make. You might have different opinions and perspectives about certain situations, but ultimately the bottom line you agree on, and that is around your the boundaries that you're setting for your child. So it's a boundary boundary setting or having lack of boundaries.

Scott Benner 18:40
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Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 20:43
I would say both. And for you to model to model for your child that you and your and your partner can have disagreements. But you're modeling? How did how to disagree? Right to how to have a conversation around? Well, I think I think Johnny should be able to go to the thing. And the other parent says no, I don't think so. And then you can model for them. Why do you have these different perspectives? And ultimately, you know, maybe, quote unquote, one parent wins in that conversation. But ultimately, the parents have or the, you know, the adults are modeling to the child how to have a disagreement and communicate in a healthy way and landing in a decision that may or may not be that they both are agreeing to but they've agreed how they came to the decision.

Scott Benner 21:33
So what I what I've put here for under positive is model communication resolution. Yes. Okay. But at the same time, is it not also important to let them know that everyone's not always going to agree?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 21:55
Yes. Not everyone's going to agree. But I think you know, the classic example that you would hear as I go, I go to mommy and ask for the lollipop. And she says no, but then I can go to daddy, and I know that Daddy's gonna say yes to the lollipop. So they learned children learn those patterns. And so you want to be united? In some of the basics, I would guess I would say kind of foundational boundaries. Yeah.

Scott Benner 22:25
But when mommy pulls daddy into a coat closet to tell him he's an idiot for giving the kid the pump? Like, is it okay for the kid to see that? Like, hey, he can't have that, you know, not to give that to him? Like, I see I from for my money. That's okay. I'm okay. With age appropriate, by the way, everything's age appropriate. Yes, yeah. But for my money, it's alright. For, it's hard for one of us to be right. And one of us to be wrong, like, like, statically correct and incorrect in a situation, it's already for one person to speak up if the person who's wrong, disagrees. They need to be free to, I don't know, discuss and give light to their thought process? Well, I don't, you know, dinner is not for three hours, I don't think the lollipops gonna hurt him. I'm okay with that. Because and do those, because I believe those interactions help people to learn what they don't want to be when they're adults. I know, I think positive modeling is incredibly important. And I think that following through, and a number of other things that we will talk about in a minute. But like, those things are all important for kids to see. But I don't have a problem with them seeing things not going well. Like I think my children are completely aware of my wife's and my shortcomings. And you know, to me, what they learned from them is maybe my dad does this, I have a personality like him, I'm going to try not to do that. But big picture, we're still a successful family unit. And that, you know, we exist in the world well, and everything and I don't know, because I think that what I see sometimes from younger parents, is an attempt at perfection. And then anything less than perfection is a dumpster fire in their mind. And therefore life is terrible. Everything's horrible. My kid's gonna grow up to be a meth head. Like like it goes from zero to 100 really quickly. So under negative i guess i What is it that perfectionism does the children. That's my question, right?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 24:46
I think leading them to believe maybe having those unrealistic expectations. I think that there's as a parent when we The whether there's a conflict and we can model conflict resolution, it's okay to have disagreements, I, I totally agree with all of those things. I think we are always able to model how to apologize and say, you know, what, we, whether it's a single parent thing or parents are made it, you know, felt like they mishandled the situation. One of the, I think the best parenting moves we can do is to say, gosh, you know, we had this conversation and I blew up at you, or, you know, we blew up at each other and trying to make this, you know, figure out this decision, and you know, we're sorry, next time, we're going to try and do it this way. Because then you get to model to your kid that, hey, we're going to make mistakes, we're going to say things incorrectly. And then I'm going to apologize, even if you're three years old, it's I think it's a beautiful intervention or, you know, practice,

Scott Benner 26:01
I would have put apology under a positive thing. And I, I wrote, arguing under negative. So I, my for my money arguing with children, like you are a child like, oh, yeah, they mean, like losing your shit. And then then finding yourself going, Oh, well, I'm as crazy as they are right now. Like, like that.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 26:30
happens. It happens. Yeah, no,

Scott Benner 26:34
I've been involved in it. Yes. But but it's one of those things that you do have to stop yourself about also, on the apology thing. I want to be clear about this. You apologize when you're wrong. But apologizing can't be the scapegoat for your bad behavior? Yes. Right. Does that make sense? You can't willfully keep doing the same thing wrong over and over again, and then running back and saying I'm so sorry, because it's meaningless after a while.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 27:07
Because ultimately, and I just read this, quote, someone who focuses on boundaries, that if you continue to do the same pattern, same behavior, and then you continue to apologize. Ultimately, what you're really seeking is to kind of seek that comfort for whatever shame you're dealing with. Right? As opposed to apologizing to the person that you offended. You are apology, you're doing the behavior over you're asking for forgiveness, you're apologizing? And the person saying no, it's okay. It's okay. But it's, that's then then that's about you. So I think having going to that first step of awareness of my my doing this and asking for forgiveness, and apologizing five times a day, then I would look at that if it's.

Scott Benner 27:57
So I added that doing work on yourself as an adult under a positive thing. And to that, I mean, if you're having the same argument over and over again, if you're having the same thing that makes you upset, you have to remove yourself from the unit for a minute and go, Why am I doing that? You know, and, and so being willing to listen to a partner or your kid, like, you know, first some insight into yourself is important, because that's what you're looking for, you're looking for insight into yourself. But you first have to make the decision. Like what do they say, recognizing the problems, the first step or something like that, like so you have to get the figure out what the problem is first, and then say, I want to fix it. And if you can't find a path to that, then you have to go to trusted people and say, Hey, I do a thing. Do you have any idea why I do that? Or what have you noticed, like that kind of stuff? And of course, hopefully you have somebody to go to that you can trust who will have your best thing, you know, take care of you in that situation? And give you a good honest answer. Also, they might not know you may be married to a moron. I don't know. Like some Well, some of you, Erica. Erica, won't you say anything bad? That's your therapist. I wish I knew you as a real person and not as a therapist. Well, I'm similar. Here one day when I go my wife is married to one and you go oh, yeah, no, I see it. But, but I mean, that's really important that the idea that I guess seeing yourself as accurately as you can, is a real kind thing you can do for your children.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 29:39
And really difficult without either the the awareness desire and takes courage. I mean, you know, it takes a lot of courage and your desire to be authentic, right with who you are. And so to reach out and ask for insight or feedback You know, seeking feedback from your children from your partner from your co workers from your close friends. I mean, I'm just thinking about like, When is the last time? I asked other people that or I heard other people asked me that, you know, it's it's hard to do. Yeah, one of the problems is to seek that feedback. Yeah,

Scott Benner 30:19
one of the problems with being, oh, Eric, I'm going to use a word that makes me feel weird to say, but one of the problems with being present, is that is that life requires that is from you as well. And you also might be tired or sick or hungry, or any number of other things. And then there's these moments like I one of my biggest, like, one of the things I had trouble with, when I was younger, was if something happens, that needs attention, like right, in this moment, you know, if we get past this moment, it's going to dissipate, then all it's gonna be left is the bad thing that happened. Right? Like, like the opportunity to fix it is gone. But you can't literally stop. Yeah, that I hate that, because it feels like I don't know. It like it feels like, it feels like there's like a Geiger counter. And, and it's moved, sometimes it moves towards we're all gonna blow up. And sometimes it moves towards Don't worry, everything's fine. And once in a while you see it move towards, it's going to blow up and you go, Oh, I could bring it back to it's going to be fine. But you're on the way out the door that way, and I'm on the way out the door this way. And then it then it multiplies. Because instead of fixing it, you get in your car, and you're like she always does that. And now you're mad, right? Like, and then she's in the car, don't I my mom was right, he's such I gotta get out of this. And like, and that just keeps growing. And the counter goes the wrong way when he doesn't have to. I hope that made sense. But that's that. So a positive thing you can do is I'm just gonna say stop, drop and roll for now. And then we'll figure out a different, like, maybe even talk, there we go.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 32:04
And take a break. I mean, maybe that the stop, drop and roll, I like to you know, you're kind of before it's about to explode, and you're feeling you could feel it in your body. Your mind is racing or heated, things are being said quickly. Practicing just knowing when that happens is just okay to stop. And particularly if you're in front of the kids to stop, and it's not going to be solved and things can be. But that's the best thing you could do for you and your partner and your children is to stop and pause. Yeah.

Scott Benner 32:38
And the extension of what I said is that you should speak to each other when you're calm. So I think maybe the thing to do there is to make an agreement, while it's heated, that we're going to come back to this later when we're not busy. And when we're calmer. And never say the word calm your wife use a different word. There's a there's a there's a marriage tip from me to you. Also, I, my wife was yelling at me recently. And as I was standing there trying to figure out what happened. In my mind, like, she's like, What are you making that face for? And I couldn't say to her, I'm trying to figure out how this happened. But like, and then later, I'm literally I'm gonna say this people are going to be upset with me, I don't care. I have made myself a promise. I've been married for 26 years. There are three days during my wife's monthly cycle that I should not talk to her about important or emotional things. And yet, sometimes when it starts to happen, I can hear the voice in my head, go yo man, not now. And then there's another voice in my head that goes she's wrong. Just tell her she'll understand. And then 30 minutes later, I'm going well, what was I doing? What do they do? And so, again, I'm not saying women are not in control themselves. I'm saying that my wife, my personal wife has a heightened emotional state. It goes about three days. On one of those days, she likes me a lot. And then on the other days, if if you start to try to have like a deep conversation with her, her mind kind of goes to all the things that are wrong. Like and she gets a little like melancholy about it. And it's just not the right time to talk to her. There's also times it's not the right time to talk to me too. And I'm sure it's got to do with my hormones probably as well. But my point is my greater point is that you are not. It doesn't matter. It could be you and what was that British guy who was so smart during World War Two and everybody listened to him. Why am I not thinking of his name? This is ridiculous. Heavy guy cigar Churchill could be you and Churchill again. It's my wife on the wrong day. And she's gonna leave believing that you and Winston Churchill are idiots and that everything is bad. Like it shouldn't it's the wrong day to speak to her about that. And I know that and I still once in a while I step in it like a booby trap. And I'm like, Oh, my God, what am I doing. But that goes for your kids too. There are times you should not push things with people is Migrator. Trying to be amusing there for a minute, but you can't like you can't push things with people, they're not always ready for it. And what you're going to get out of them is not a give and take conversation, what you're gonna get out of them is whatever horribleness is inside of them that day, they are going to put it out into the world. And everyone does that. Male Female, happy, sad doesn't matter, people are going to do that. So you have to be good at choosing time in place to have conversations without letting it get past. So far past when it happened, that it's now push that push that needle too far to one side, and you can't get it back anymore. So you can make a fixable problem unfixable by not going after it and discussing it and you can make a fixable problem and fixable by discussing it at the wrong time. Yes, took me a while to do that. But I think that's

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 36:21
and that goes I know, we're kind of tutoring into, you know, the communication. Pros and Cons patterns. But I think the what you're getting at is not only being aware of your, your audience, right, and what they may or may not be going through whether you are knowing it or not, whether it's the cycle or the end of the day, or, you know, whatever else is going on, but also being aware of your state as well. And so, as you're entering into the conversation with your partner with your child, and you're addressing something that's maybe beyond just whether it's possible conflict, or ask to just be checking yourself having that awareness of how am I entering into this conversation? And how is the My the audience, the person I'm speaking to? Where are they at emotionally? Okay. And

Scott Benner 37:17
so what are some good traits of good parents so engaged, communicative, that I think being a good listener makes you a better person, better parent in general. What else?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 37:39
I think modeling as much as you can, healthy behavior holistically, not just how you communicate, but doing doing self care. We've talked a bit about that over the years of, because we know that parenting is 24/7. And even as you're working or managing other things, you're thinking about your kids, you're thinking about their blood sugar. And so it is so important for your kids to see you taking care of yourself in a way that might feel you might face the guilt or anything else. But I knew I know, sorry. We're sticking to just topics I go into your fine examples.

Scott Benner 38:21
That's what we're doing today. Okay, just pretend nobody's listening to us. And we're trying to figure out how we want to put this series together.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 38:26
Okay. So yeah, I think a pro would be to, to take that self care, take the timeout, so that you can be more emotionally present, when you are physically with them. And you're not just you're not running through that, you know, brush your teeth, clean your room Pre-Bolus and all those good things.

Scott Benner 38:48
So I ask people online about things they've seen. So I'm going to spend the rest of this time like talking about them, and then pulling out nuggets of what they've said, although I also want to throw in for myself. Being a martyr or overly dramatic is really not beneficial at all. Like it's, it's really it's a it's a mess, you should not do that. Okay, so. So this person says that good parenting is acknowledging a child's feelings, no, no matter how irrational they may seem. That seems good to

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 39:21
validate validate with a capital V. Yes. So validate.

Scott Benner 39:25
I like that you're going to be able to pull the words out of their thoughts. My parents would restrict sweets. And then when I started sneaking food and would get caught, they would shout at me for 10 minutes, which just taught me to hide it better. So what's the takeaway from that?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 39:42
I would say realistic and healthy boundaries, expectations around eating. Flexible, I'd say having flexibility

Scott Benner 40:00
Okay, so I got from that I got unrealistic boundaries and expectations. On the bad side I put be flexible on the good side with this is gonna work. Okay, hold on a second. I'm a single mom, I get no support. I'm the sole provider. One time my son was in this place where he would tell me he was going to live with his dad every time he was upset with me. I will up once and I said, go ahead and call him and see if he'll come get you tell him to pay for your insurance and all of your diabetes supplies. And let's see how long you stay alive. And she said, felt like a dick move. And I still feel bad about it today. But there's, there's a pro and a con in there. It's painful. It's for all of them, right? Because you can hear in that statement. She's struggling. The kid is being a kid and saying the worst thing they can think to say. But then she tells the kid, look, that guy doesn't care about you as much as I do. And if that's true, it's horrible for the kid. If it's false, it's horrible for the dad and the kid. And no matter what, it's not good for the mom. So what did she do? What did she mean? What did she mean to do that she could have done differently? That's, I think how we have to attack?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 41:28
Yeah, I think that's something just to speak to her. Obviously, I know you're she's probably shaming herself or videos. She's feeling badly about that, obviously, exhausted physically, emotionally. And so the comment came out, and it would be repairable if that is the one, you know, if that's a new a new type of conversation. If it's a common theme, I would encourage her. Sorry, I'm not answering your question.

Scott Benner 42:01
Sorry. Because you're helping therapy, you're, you're like me, here's my take from that, okay, you can never be degrading of your spouse. Like to your child, like it's, it's, it's their dad, like they, they are that they they look at that person or that woman, mother or father, and they feel like they're connected to that person. I'm partly you, if he's a piece of shit, then on a piece of shit. Like that's, I think, to me, that's the biggest mistake in there.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 42:29
I'd say yeah, if if there's one thing that when I'm working with with children and parents, who are divorced, that is one of the most challenging I know, but highly effective rules to follow is to not speak poorly about the child's other parent, when they're not when they're with you, you know, and I think that's really, really hard. But that's more about your own. That's between her and the dad.

Scott Benner 42:58
Right? I also think that they're, you know, taking her at her word, and this, she's being honest. And in a more age appropriate situ, I don't know how old this kid is, but under 18, obviously, but in a more age appropriate situation. I don't know that it's like if you're, if there's a parent that really is that much of a near dwell, and not helpful, then it's not wrong for them to know that, but I think you have to couch it to them in a specific way. You know, your dad, blah, blah, blah, your mom blah, blah, blah, you know, it's not, you know, they're trying or like to, you know, I think they're gonna, they're working on it, that kind of thing, even if it's not true. I mean, them knowing that the person isn't living up to expectations. Maybe he's, I mean, the kids got to know that. Right?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 43:50
Right. And I would also wonder, thinking about her comment saying, whenever she would ask him to do something that he didn't want to do, he would threaten or to say, I want to go live with dad. And so maybe she had tried various different ways to problem solve every time he would make that comment. And it got to the breaking point of like, Fine, you know, go. And so I guess that I would either I would, it's hard, it's hard to kind of say what it what could she have done differently, not knowing that journey of what happened all along the way? And how she tried to connect problem solved with her son every time he would make that thread, if that makes sense. But because there's something going on in the sun as well. That's like this just a complicated hard one.

Scott Benner 44:39
Trust me, this other one's terrible. So so there are more than more than a few people who as adults are saying in this thread, like, you know, I was beaten for a number of different things. My room not being clean when my parents were not good at keeping our house clean. So even that like it's Oh, taking the the hitting out of it for a second. You can't punish your children, for your crime because you feel bad about it. So you are a collection of neurons and bacteria and all the things that make you up and you made a baby that is probably very likely like you. And then you look up and that baby's messy like you are, you don't want to be messy. So you're going to try to save them from it. And so I don't know where the lesson is in that except to say, the apple, you can't you can't yell at the Apple for fallen next to the tree it fell off of like, I mean, do you know what I mean? Like that's, I think, yes. These no hitting on my list?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 45:45
Yes, yes, no hitting, I think the one of the things, if you have that awareness, the things that maybe irritate you or aggravate you, the most in your children are most likely the things that you don't necessarily like about in yourself. And so that's often why they might be frustrating, like if your kid is really stubborn. And you see that stubbornness at play when you're asking them to clean their room. That might really irked you. And you might not know how to respond to that. And that's something to say, Well, gosh, maybe I'm really stubborn in these ways. And this is kind of a simpler example. But to have that awareness of like, why am I why am I triggered so easily when my child does or says X, Y, or Z? It might be because you're tired and stressed. But it also might be something within you that you haven't quite either understood or faced or expressed. Going back to the grace and compassion towards yourself for why you're that way.

Scott Benner 46:49
This person said screens, it bothers them when people abandon their children on on some sort of piece of electronics. That yeah,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 46:57
I was gonna list I was gonna say one of the, you know, just having healthy technology, boundaries, which could be connected to also having, you know, quality time.

Scott Benner 47:13
Yep, too much. And quality, time means anything, right? It means together.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 47:22
It means together. And it means having that connection, and

Scott Benner 47:27
connected time, quality, connected time,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 47:29
quality, connected time where your child or even teenager knows that you are attuned to them. And I think one thing that gets in the way of this is that we think it has to be this long, fabulous, planned event vent. But it can be you walk in the door, and maybe we've talked about this before, but you walk in the door from work, or out of your office and you spend five minutes making eye contact connecting with your kid that builds attachment connection, and will feel like quality time for both of you. Or it's spending seven minutes outside playing catch, you know, it's it's it can be small segments of that quality time that builds up over time.

Scott Benner 48:13
Do you think that parents can be friends with their children and parent them at the same time? Hmm.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 48:21
That's a good question. And hard. I think you can be friendly, and have fun friend like moments. But where I guess it would depend on what your how you define being a friend as a parent.

Scott Benner 48:37
Yeah, I don't mean like smoke meth with her. But like, you know, I see what you're saying. But were you say, like, brings up like, there's a person here that says, Look, I'm very friendly with my daughter, we're buddies. But people say you shouldn't do that. But I like her. So I don't know that you can't be friendly with your kids. You just, you know, I guess the way to put it is I'm very friendly with my children. And we talked about like I told my eyes. I may or may not have made a weird off color comment to an x ray technician today who laughed like hell and then said something even funnier afterwards that I'm not gonna tell you about and then I texted my son because I thought it was hilarious. But like, that's fine. But at the same time, even at 23 years old, and taller than me and stronger than me. My son knows I am not fucking around. Like like it like when when the ship is happening. Like I'm his dad, like, we were when our son was in college for the first year. She came home or we went to see her during a break or something. She's talking about this kid she met that was doing this like crazy thing with money or something like that. And Arden said to me, you would kill me if I did that. And I And she's like, I would never do that. Like she and what I got out of that was their expectations. Right? There are rules lines and If I know if I cross too far over them, there's going to be an actual consequence. And I don't want that to happen. So that's, you know, I don't think that's not why she does anything, she doesn't do it because we kind of raised her in that direction. But she does know that if it happened, it wouldn't be okay. Like, I wouldn't just be like, okay, you know, there, I would do my job at that point, which is kind of how I say it is because nobody wants to beat like, it's not fun. Parenting sucks, in case people are wondering, it's not a ton of fun, like the love things, the only thing that pays you back, really the rest of it's really thankless. And but, but like, you still gotta do the thing. You know what I mean? Like, there's got to be rules. And and you also have to know, I think you also have to know that sometimes you make up rules when you're a younger parent, because they were things you did. You have to be it, you said be flexible, you have to be able to be flexible and go, You know what I've been saying this, but that's not necessary. Like maybe the times will change. Maybe my kid is different than I was when I was being parented for a number of different reasons. You have to adjust. But adjusting doesn't mean like moving the line, so that the kid can get away with anything they want, right? If adjusting means like reasonable adjustments.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 51:19
And I think what, in your example, with Arden, there, there has been consistency, right? So over time, she has learned that you love her, you guys can be playful and friends alike. But she knows there are boundaries and expectations. And so I think, yes, you can be friends with your child or teenager. But where I think it becomes challenging is as a parent to say, if you're if I'm your friend, it's gonna be hard for me to say no. Because then are you not going to we're not going to be friends still, you're not going to love me is that

Scott Benner 51:56
confusing to the kid if you'd like flip flop on them?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 52:00
Right? So what they but they what they need and what they are craving, as I think most parents really do know that they want those boundaries and expectations and for you to say no at certain times. That also instills security, safety, love a foundation of all of those really important things as opposed to saying yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Because I think that will make you love me more as a parent. That's, that's hard.

Scott Benner 52:27
There's this one response from somebody frizzy I'm just going to put your entire response into my document well done. overpowering the child loving the child with conditions expecting more than is his or her developing brain capable of training of any kind of bad parenting. Be respectful, you know, gentle approach to the child showing unconditional love responsiveness with no exemptions. This person has been to therapy. Because like, yeah, that's all good. Go through your own childhood traumas break your cycles, break your cycles is such a thing that sounds cliched right now, me because internet and everything, but it's 100% Probably the biggest thing you could be doing. Don't put children into their own anxiety by yelling. Don't threaten punishment. Let's see. And if it happens, realizing that we are the idiots we've helped. Yeah, apologizing, letting them live through their emotions respect. Yeah, I you know what? A lot of people tell their kids what they feel. That's interesting. They hold on, don't tell your kids how they feel? Or they tell them what or who they are. Have you know what I mean by that?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 53:50
I think you can you can affirm and praise kids just reminding them of their love and that they are valued and worthy. I think sometimes there there might be if you're waiting for that pause, your own anxiety might fill that space and get tell them what they're feeling or tell them because you're also your kids might not know sometimes they do need that language right to say, are you feeling this way? Or I wonder if you're feeling this way or that way? I think one of the greatest gifts is to give your give that space for your kid, your child teen to think

Scott Benner 54:29
there's a list here from a person who was a who was who is a I guess they have they're a daycare person. This list alone, like this is I can't I'm not going to read it. But when you don't feel good about society. These are the reasons some of these reasons are. I just gotta give you one of them. Pepsi and a baby bottle. Hey, go. So I'm going to assume that I am honestly going to assume that a person We'll put that Pepsi in a baby bottle isn't listening to this podcast, and we're gonna we're gonna raise the level of conversation beyond that. Yeah, I mean, a, I guess, you know, it's easy to say some people shouldn't probably be parents at the at certain times their life but, man, that's tough. Okay, so

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 55:22
the overpowering over protecting,

Scott Benner 55:27
overpowering protecting overpower

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 55:28
yeah overpowering over protecting could be a theme.

Scott Benner 55:35
You can also you have to think you have to be, you have to follow through. Like you're I think your children need to be able to believe that you're there. Like Like, just and I don't know what to call that exactly. But they have to be there has to be some certainty that you're the one. Right? Like, like when the bus is coming and we're all standing on the corner, you are definitely going to throw me out of the way and stand there and face the bus. Like like you you've got to be trusted.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 56:09
reliable, trustworthy, yeah.

Scott Benner 56:13
No matter what that means, honestly, like, like, you know what I mean? Like it doesn't like you don't need to be like the CEO of a Fortune 500 company and be reliable. You can be a ditch digger and be reliable, like just consistent reliability, something that they can hang a hat on, like, say, I know this is gonna happen. Like, there's a lot of people in this thread that are like, you'd be surprised how many people forget their children in places? Or like, you know, never get them anything on time. And then how that actually does affect the kid. Like, if you have an anxious kid, and you're always late. That's gonna make that's gonna make the kid upset. Yeah. And so you kind of have to see. Let me say this, maybe I think I'm going to type as I'm talking. You need to be the parent, your kids need. Not the parent you needed. Or even be the person. You are. Like, sometimes your kids are going to need things you're not to. You still have to find whimsically? Yeah, you have to do those things. It's all on you. Like it really is. It's the worst of all the things nature doesn't do, right. Making penis happiness attached it owning a baby later. That's the worst thing in the world. Like, I understand why it happens and everything but terrible idea. Like, really, you should get a baby at the end of a 20 question. questionnaire questionnaire you take and you gotta get like 95% of it, right? And then maybe a baby pops into the room or something like that. And it's really hard to get them right. It shouldn't be like, Oh, that felt good, baby. I mean, imagine if babies came from eating candy. We'd be knee deep and babies. What does that say about sex? Is candy. Sex? Oh, gosh, oh

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 58:13
my gosh. I think I just want to pause that because as we're listing all these things, you know, I just wonder if you're, as a listener, or you're like feeling just overwhelmed. Like, oh my gosh, I you know, I can't do this. I can't do that. But like, it's also we're creating a list we're not, you know,

Scott Benner 58:34
listen, Eric is going to take this document and put it into real adult words and then that's what we're gonna make the podcast off. Then I'm gonna say silly shit in between Moreover, recording it, don't you worry. It's gonna be fun. I'm not the adult in this situation. Don't like like, really like, it is. You know, I've said this before, but I'm always very interested in watching you think? Because I will say the first thing that comes into my mind and then talk it through. You talk it through in your mind and then say the thing you mean? Like we know you don't just try stop at what you do. I if Eric and I were dating, I would sit across from her at a restaurant and go just blurt it out. We'll figure it out later. She'd be like, I'm almost done formulating my thought. But there's, there's a ton of I mean, obviously, that is that you're well suited for what you do for a living, obviously. You know, and because you're very welcome, though, the way I chatted through the spot where that could be a problem for somebody is because if you hear something I say that you like that makes your brain light up. And I haven't gotten to the point yet. You could really just go Oh, yeah, that guy said that. I'd be like that's not what I said. You didn't hear the seven words while I was still working it out. Eric has just been To say what she means and you can count on it that's that's why you're here because otherwise it just be me talking in circles and then at the end God oh my God does it mean that

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:00:11
but you lay on you lay on the plane you do

Scott Benner 1:00:14
fun while we're listening to it on the podcast, but like it needs a little bit of both. I have to say that we there was the rebellion episode we did. When at the end, I said, life's a crock pot and our potatoes aren't cooked yet. Oh, yes. And I looked at your face. You were like, Oh my God. That's exactly right. He's like, lovely look on your face. And I felt so good. I was like I did good.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:00:43
validated. Oh, I bought Yes. That was a good comment.

Scott Benner 1:00:48
I was like I did God. I felt good. I was like, yeah. Okay, so I mean, as we, I mean, we were throw it here. Like, there's a ton of stuff to consider, you are going to like for the lovely people put a list together, I'm going to send you links, the things that people said. And we'll we'll put some of those things together in conversations. But I think mostly this is you for a professional perspective. And as a parent, and me from my perspective, and what I don't know, even people know about you, like you have younger children

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:01:21
do. So have a four though I have a five year old, she just turned five girl and a eight and a half year old girls,

Scott Benner 1:01:31
my kids are 23 and 19. So and but you and I are similarly aged.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:01:36
But I'm old daughter? Yes. I am 45. I'm 45. Yes,

Scott Benner 1:01:44
you were like I'm not 50 to make sure they knew that. But But seriously, like it's two different perspectives. With your professionalism mixed in, I think this is a great idea. Because my idea for this is, is that nobody launches into life at the exact right time. And the exact right time would be different for every person, that time would change once you couple up with another person, like maybe you would be a perfect mom at 32. But I'd be a perfect Dad, I don't know 25. But we don't meet like that. So you know, everyone's gonna get thrown into it. Where the happy penis feeling puts them. And then, and then the baby comes out. And then immediately, I'm going to just tell you, your fear, and your your, your desire to do a good job and your fear or the overwhelming factors in the beginning, when the baby's born, you're like, I don't want to screw this up. And I don't think I can do this are probably what swirling around in your head. Even though I don't think the words come out like that from your mouth, you just have maybe a dose of love, oh, my God, that's probably a lot of that involves happiness and all that other stuff, because you're not exhausted yet. So you can still be happy. But like all that feeling is there. And then it happens, then it's a I mean, then it's a drop of water rolling down a hill, and it makes turns and gets absorbed and then gets rehydrated and then runs into a stick and gets diverted and you don't get to sit around and philosophize every time one of those things happens. So there's got to be a simple bag of tricks that you're honestly, Eric, I think the cats out of the bag. This is how I think about diabetes to write like a small tool bag that you don't have to think about. You just your hand goes in and you're holding it, you don't even know how it happened. You're like, I know what to do here. This is a Pre-Bolus. You know, I know what to do here. I need a Temp Basal here. I'm gonna pray I'm gonna Bolus for the fat here. If you have to think about those things, then they don't happen. But if there are things you understand, and things that have been kind of put into your head through storytelling, and podcasts and things like that, then when you need them, they're there. And because I can tell you or Erica can tell you all she wants not to do a thing in a situation. But the reason that's the thing people tell you not to do is because that's the human reaction in that situation. It's what people are going to do. And if you have to consciously not do it, you're probably going to fail at it. You need to it just needs to happen. So I'm hoping that that does this for people hope it helps them with their kids. And then I hope it helps them with their diabetes too, because I'm going to all finish up here and then I want to hear what you have to say. I think after talking to so many people who are adults who have been children with diabetes, that parent things more important with diabetes than even it may be in a regular situation, because there are a lot of extra things that can go wrong. And those things can lead to real bad health problems, not just you, you know, not liking blonde ladies or something like that. So, you know, which is how I would feel if my blonde mom was yelling at me a lot. Anyway like that, that I think is just anyway, that's what I say for this the bigger picture of it.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:05:11
No, I appreciate that. Because I was thinking, Did we explain why we were kind of taking a bigger, broader view around parenting? And so the hope is that if we can address some of these common themes, that that would ultimately help the parent child dynamic in your in the diabetes management piece, because sometimes we kind of narrow in on like, just tell them to Pre-Bolus Tell them to not eat data. But we're not looking at the bigger picture of like, well, why is that? Why is that dynamic occurring? So the hope is that the parenting picture would help the diabetes management,

Scott Benner 1:05:48
I read an interview that just went up, where this woman describes how she was diagnosed as a teen. And just it was long time ago, before management was very good. And they just didn't want to be bothered with it. So they would do background insulin and Bolus when they got high. And that was it. Like not even for food or anything like that. And she's on the show to talk about the fact that she's lost her sight. Already had a couple of transplants hoping to get another kidney, like that kind of stuff, right? Like really like the worst outcomes that you that you worry about when somebody tells you you have diabetes. And her reasoning, for the things that happened in her life are all very, like, I got every one of everything. She said, I was like I understand this, right. But all I could think while she was talking was Well, that's what you saw. What really happened? Like what got you to make that decision, like what did your parents do? Or not do? Or what did your life experience lead you towards? That when this happened? You made this decision. And to me that's about this like you, like, listen, we're all going to be good parents at times, and we're all going to be bad parents at times. But the difference between your kid having a reaction that just leads them to be I don't know, you know, a dick to a parking attendant. And, you know, not taking care of their blood sugar. There's a big difference between those two things. And I don't imagine that anybody has the time or the or the knowledge about diabetes or parenting while they're in it, to conceive of those issues, and find a way around them. So my idea is stop the problem before it starts. So that you're not just the person that 60 years old sitting around going, I should not have done that. And now this is what happened from it. And then you just sit there looking back feeling bad the whole time. So I actually think this will be a fun conversation that will lead to some value for people. So anyway, I appreciate you doing it with me.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:07:57
Yes, thank you.

Scott Benner 1:08:00
Thank you. Alright, I will see you next time.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:08:03
See you next time.

Scott Benner 1:08:16
Erica Forsythe is a therapist for families with diabetes. Check her out at Erica forsythe.com. Erica offers help for caregivers and families therapy for tweens, teens and adults and so much more. Erica forsythe.com I want to thank us med for sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast us med.com forward slash juice box or call 888-721-1514 Get your free benefits check and start getting your supplies the same way we do from us med

you're gonna get a new episode of this series once every week until it is completed. Today of course was the intro episode. I think I called brainstorm parenting episode parenting episode. How am I going to do this? All right, you're gonna get to figure this out with me. I guess we'll brainstorm the rest of this. I need to need titles. Like I have like, like the next episode is going to be called Understanding parenting styles pisode after that building positive communication. I'll tell you the next few in a moment, but I need a preface like you know how it's like diabetes pro tip colon Pre-Bolus I need a blah blah blah colon for this parenting. Maybe that's it. Maybe it's just parenting colon. This one's brainstorm. Intro intro brainstorm something like that. The next one understanding parenting styles parenting, understanding parenting styles. Parenting, building positive communication. Yeah, maybe that works right. Let me keep trying that with you. Parenting self care and personal growth for parents parenting creating boundaries and expectations, right? Parenting, avoiding unintended consequences of inconsistent discipline over involve parenting, how in the hell am I going to make that a title that I'm gonna have to slow down? That one would be parenting unintended consequences of inconsistent discipline and over involved parenting. I'll call that one inconsistent and over involved. Okay, I can do this, by the way, there's more episodes and just these five that I've mentioned here, but this is how it's gonna go. And you know, you'll listen or you won't, you'll decide what you think. I hope you love it. I'm super excited. And like I mentioned at the beginning, and I think that parenting in general and ideas, things that we don't talk about or think about sometimes they impact how we do things, we could always maybe make better decisions. I know I can. And I think that extends to diabetes. So whether you find that Eric and I are specifically talking about diabetes in the moment or not, I think the information and the conversations will help you in both walks of your life. I hope you enjoy it. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast. Thanks so much for listening.