Scott Benner 7/5/24 Scott Benner 7/5/24

#1246 Weekly Diabetes News 7/1/24

Topics include the US launch of Medtronic's MiniMed 780G system, promising research from Johns Hopkins on a monoclonal antibody for type 1 diabetes, and gene therapy advancements by Fractal Health. Scott also discusses legislative news on CGM access in Illinois and early developments in oral insulin formulations.

You can always listen to the Juicebox Podcast here but the cool kids use: Apple Podcasts/iOS - Spotify - Amazon Music - Google Play/Android - iHeart Radio - Radio Public, Amazon Alexa or wherever they get audio.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends and welcome to episode 1246 of the Juicebox Podcast

I'm back with another quick episode to catch you up on what's in the news for type one diabetes this week this is for the week of July 1. Nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan.

sup everybody, I'm back to read you the news about diabetes. Nice to me, I'm just I scour the internet for you. I find stuff. It's interesting to me, I come here and I tell you about it. And 15 minutes later, you've got all that stuff in your head without any of that pesky reading. Hey, if you want to save 30% off of your entire order at cozy earth.com Just use the offer code juice box at checkout. And of course, when you place your first order for ag one with my link, you'll get five free travel packs and a free year supply of vitamin D. Drink ag one.com/juicebox if you have type one diabetes, and you're from the US or you're the caregiver of someone with type one, please go to T one D exchange.org/juicebox. and complete the survey completing the survey helps type one diabetes research and it only takes a few minutes. Before we get started, let me tell you about the 2025 Juice cruise. Now what is that exactly? Well, I'm going on a cruise. And I'm inviting all of you to come with me. This is going to happen in June of 2025. But if you register by August 1 2024, you're going to receive a $25 onboard credit per stateroom. This Cruise is great for you if you have a family with children with type one if you're an adult with type one or anywhere in between. I got a note the other day and said I have type two diabetes. I'm a listener and I want to come I was like absolutely Let's go. Everybody is welcome. Bring the kids bring yourself bring the fam. Let's get out in the sun meet each other really experienced community one on one and have a great time. Maybe you just want to meet other Juicebox Podcast listeners. Maybe you want to meet other people that you know from the private Facebook group or perhaps you just have never met another person with diabetes and this is your chance. We're gonna fill that boat with beeping. Understand, it's gonna be very real. What is that? Somebody's blood sugar's high. This Cruise is on the Royal Caribbean International's mariners of the sea. It departs Galveston, Texas on Monday, June 23. It's a five night trip with ports of call in Galveston Costa Maya and Cozumel. Now for two of the days of the trip, there'll be talks, I'll be giving talks meet and greets Q and A's, we're going to bring on some special guests to talk to and right now I'm going to start to reach out to advertisers of the show to see if they'd like to send out customer service people so that you actually have somebody from specific companies to ask questions of I thought that was kind of a nice idea. I'm working on that right now. I don't know if that's gonna happen. It's up to the companies. But we'll find out. If you want to learn more, go to the link or text Suzanne at 817-928-4930. That's poor Suzanne who's about to get a lot of texts. She's running the whole, you know, travel side of this whole thing. The Scotty side of it, if you go to the link, you'll be able to see the different state rooms, the complete charges that are you know, necessary per person, you'll understand what you're talking about before you reach out to Suzanne, or if you just want to reach out to her and get the conversation started. I'm sure she'd be thrilled to talk to you. All right, juicebox podcast.com, or link in the show notes or text Suzanne, and I'll see you on the ship in June. I'm very, very excited to meet everyone. I hope you can come bring the family. Now on to the news. So I searched a little bit did some looking around poking around because ADA is at fourth Scientific Sessions was last week. So I figured there's got to be some takeaways from ADA. Right. The American diabetes Association holds a big conference, there must be news. Here's what I found some interesting stuff. And some stuff that you just kind of expect companies are like our thing is good. Like, okay, well we know about that. That's not actually news. We know you think you think is good, and it probably is but we're looking for new stuff to talk about not just you know, we did a study and you know, there's less hypoglycemia if you were an automatic insulin delivery system. Yeah, thanks. We know how about this one I'm going to start here. Medtronic is launching the mini med seven ATG system in Oh, the US us launch of the mini med seven ATG system. The guardian for sensor that's interesting. includes advanced hybrid closed loop technology for automated insulin delivery. Sounds like they're getting their thing into the US. What else here? There are new therapeutic targets for diabetes discussed? Oh, really? I can't wait for that. Yeah, I can't wait for the establishment to realize that maybe your agency should be lower than seven. Boy, a lot of this is probably just going to irritate me, it's going to be stuff we've been talking about for, you know, 510 years on the podcast, where they're like, we've done a study and we've figured it out. There's health disparities in communities. How about that? Who knew? But this is just me being sarcastic with the news. I didn't expect that. But here we are. This is just, this is just research with mice at this point. But it's interesting enough. Where's this over at Johns Hopkins, a drug named M A, B 43. It's a monoclonal antibody. It's only they're doing mice studies right now, but prevents and reverses type one diabetes onset in mice potential for long term use with minimal side effects, beta cells begin reproducing an inflammation decreases. I'm excited about anybody who's looking into inflammation in the pancreas. Very interesting, led by a PhD here. Not a lot more than that. But, you know, I don't like to get too excited about things that work in mice, because they very often don't work in people. But still, I like the direction of that. Now, here's something I actually did find really interesting. I think this is more around type two. But it's very, it's very, very interesting. And here's why. Here's the overview of it. A recent study explored the effects of a single dose of GLP, one based gene therapy, on obesity and diabetes management in mice. Again, mice, but, you know, this is kind of interesting. The therapy is designed to deliver a gene encoded encoding GLP one, which is a hormone involved in blood sugar regulation, and this gets delivered directly to the pancreas. The mice were divided into three groups one receiving gene therapy, one receiving daily semaglutide injections, and one receiving a placebo. During the duration to the initially, excuse me initially followed for four weeks with a follow up period extending to eight weeks for some groups. Now here's the key findings. There was weight and fat reduction, the mice treated with the gene therapy experienced at 21% reduction in fat mass compared to a 16% with the semaglutide After four weeks, ooh. And after eight weeks that gene therapy maintained a 17% reduction in fat mass, even after semaglutide withdrawal. While the placebo group saw no significant effect, no significant change. Hmm. Significant improvements in fasting glucose and insulin levels were observed in the gene therapy and semaglutide groups at both four and six weeks. The third, the therapy resulted in a 36% reduction in total cholesterol and a 51% reduction in LDL cholesterol compared to placebo after two months. And they're saying here the potential is this gene therapy could offer a long term single dose treatment option for managing obesity and diabetes. It aims to provide durable weight loss, and improve metabolic control without the need for continuous medication. So it's something about listen, I'm no surgeon here, or researcher. But what I'm hearing is you take the GLP one, and you magic mix it somehow in a gene therapy situation. And then maybe you're re I don't want to speak for this thing. But maybe you're recoding how things are working. Anyway, it looks like a company called fractal health. They plan to progress the therapy through preclinical development and initiate first in human clinical studies in the first half of 2025. That gets a clap for me. Let's go fractal health looks like they're calling this drug. Is it read Juvia investor's clinical studies, our company I might reach out to them to get somebody on the podcast here. I mean, unless they're listening, and then just please send me an email. I have a lot of time for this. I don't have a lot of time to be sending emails. I'm very busy. Yeah, I don't know if they've got a PR I'll look through there. I'm gonna hold on to this. I might, I might, I might reach out to them. That's not a bad idea. What else do we have here? Did the Hopkins thing. Health Disparities, there's health disparities and communities they figured it out. They just did a research study. It only took a couple of years and they came back and they said things are not fair. Look at you got it. Let's see. Don't you know tandems got that Moby pump now? On the pod five works with Dexcom G seven.

I heard some news from ever since but I can't I gotta make sure I get the details. Right before I bring it to you. Maybe you'll hear about that next week. This is kind of local, but I find this very encouraging. Illinois has passed legislate legislation legislation, expanding access to continuous glucose monitors for Medicaid benefit beneficiaries. That's excellent. This move is praised by the American diabetes Association. It's praised by me too. That's good and more people should be doing that and more states 1,000,000% All right, kids. There's some older stuff here. It's not new news, but it's still stuff that pops up when I'm when I'm talking there's an oral insulin formulation developed by the Artic University of Norway that could potentially eliminate the need for insulin injections. That'd be cool. Very, very early on, but keep working on that for sure. And there was something here about let me find it. Let me find it intermittent fasting. Okay, I got it. This is a UIC research initiative on intermittent fasting with type one diabetes. The study lead Christa Verde, hey, Krista. What's up? You're famous professor of nutrition at the University of Illinois, Chicago. The focus of the study was examining the safety and effectiveness of time restricted eating a form of intermittent fasting for individuals with type one diabetes. I thought this was really interesting. She found there were no adverse reactions. How about that? She's talking about hypoglycemia, diabetic ketoacidosis. In the reviewed studies, participants experience weight loss and lowered average blood sugar levels in some cases. It's like there was a pilot study here. It's still ongoing comparing time restricted eating to calorie counting, and a control group was 60 participants. The recommendation after the study was a patient should consult with their doctors and well that's not great, Krista, but I think what you're really taken from this is somebody's out there doing a study about fasting with type one diabetes, where a lot of you would say, oh, you know, if I fast my blood sugar is gonna get low, where I would say, if your settings were good, you could not eat for quite some time without experiencing a low blood sugar. This is the takeaway here, right? Because people are always wondering like, how do I exercise my blood sugar voice false exercise without any active insulin. That doesn't mean you don't have your Basal going, but it's a really well timed Basal, a well considered Basal, so it's not dragging you lower. I brought this up mainly to remind you that you can exercise fasting and that that's probably a way for you to keep from having a low blood sugar while you're exercising if you have type one, but also Krista viraday. Professor, if you'd like to come on the podcast, give me a shout. I'd love to talk about this a little more. I think it's very interesting and timely, and I think it's important for people living with type one diabetes. Alright, that's it for Scotty reads you the news this week. Don't forget the juice crews link in the show notes link at juicebox podcast.com. And of course, how to do it again. Of course you could just text Suzanne at 817-928-4930 and say I want to know more about the juice cruise and Suzanne will go Why is my phone blown up like this but that's between you and Suzanne. I will not be giving you my phone number and also be very nice to Suzanne. She's lovely. She has type one diabetes. She's a travel agent and this was her brainchild. And she's doing the lion's share of the work. She's a lovely lady, and she'd love to get you set up on the cruise and of course I'd love to see you there.

#1245 Resilience: Privilege and Resilience

Episode 1245: Psychological Impacts of Diabetes with Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT

Marriage and family therapist Erika Forsyth explores the psychological impacts of diabetes on patients and caregivers. This episode delves into the anxiety and stress associated with constant diabetes management and offers strategies for coping with these challenges. Erika discusses how technology can both help and hinder emotional well-being, providing a comprehensive look at the mental health aspects of living with diabetes. Listen to gain valuable insights into managing the psychological impacts of diabetes.

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Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends and welcome to episode 1245 of the Juicebox Podcast

Erica Forsythe is back with me for part three of the resilience series. And don't forget to learn more about Erika, you only have to go to Erica forsythe.com. Nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. If you have type one diabetes, or are the caregiver of someone with type one and a US resident, you have a unique opportunity to make a significant impact on type one diabetes research right from your home in fewer than 10 minutes. Just go to T one D exchange.org/juice box and complete the survey. That's all you have to do. When you place your first order for ag one with my link, you'll get five free travel packs and a free year supply of vitamin D. Drink ag one.com/juice box. Hey, you like being comfortable? Do you like looking good. If you do go to cozy earth.com Fill up your cards with towels and sheets and clothing and all the things that will make you happy. And then use the offer code juice box at checkout and you will save 30% off of everything in that cart. Cozy earth.com use the offer code juice box at checkout this episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by us med U S med.com/juice box or call 888721151 for us med is where my daughter gets her diabetes supplies from and you could to use the link or number to get your free benefit check and get started today with us met. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the Dexcom G seven made for all types of diabetes Dexcom G seven can be used to manage type one, type two, and gestational diabetes, you're going to see the speed, direction and number of your blood sugar right on your receiver or smartphone device. dexcom.com/juicebox This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the only implantable sensor rated for long term were up to six months. The ever since CGM ever since cgm.com/juicebox. Erica, we are back to do the third installment of our resilience conversation. How are you?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 2:43
That's right. I'm well thank you. So yes, I have to keep reminding myself that the yes, the overarching theme is resilience because I know we're focusing a lot on trauma, but we're, it's all connected.

Scott Benner 2:55
If people listen to the podcast long enough, they'll recognize that my titles are not that meaningful sometimes. But I also think that resilience just leads into the conversation. You know what I mean? Like, I reached out to you and I said, Can we talk about resilience? That's all I said, and you came back with all this great content and these things to pick through, you know, what you found and what you knew, you know, which I didn't know, because I think this was just the thing I thought of while I was in the shower, if I'm remembering correctly, is that you know, this part about trauma that we discussed in the last episode? And I guess we'll kind of continue on with today as well as that, right?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 3:32
Yes, I was thinking today, we could do a little bit of review and reflection, and then start talking a little bit more about the connection of privilege and resilience. That also connects to our talk a little bit more about the ACES today if we have time.

Scott Benner 3:46
So I want to hear all about that. But let me ask you this. I think that it's possible that we use the word privilege, you scare people, and they're looking for the stop button already. They're like, I don't need to be told I have privilege. So like I'm interested in, in how that unfolds. And I hope people like take a minute and listen to the that they can see the bigger picture. You don't just mean I don't want to tell you what you mean. So do your review. And then and then you ask then yes, I

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 4:13
know that that word can be has a lot of connotation and association. And what we'll get into is kind of thinking maybe the better question to think about is did you feel safe and secure growing up? Which is can be thought of as a certain form of privilege? Or do you currently feel safe and secure? And so we'll talk about how that is connected to your stress response system and whether or not you had opportunities to develop to develop resilience as a young person.

Scott Benner 4:47
Yeah. Because in context privilege is opportunity to be safe to be protected to be loved that kind of stuff.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 4:57
And predictability. Hmm Have you an opportunity, minimal threat, and you experience stress and chaos? You still experience it, but it's in an unpredictable, controllable, manageable way.

Scott Benner 5:12
Okay, cool. You said you want to look back a little bit before me? Yeah,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 5:17
I just thought we could review a little bit of what we talked about in the last couple episodes of the kind of capital T trauma, which is understanding what is trauma, we'd look at the event itself, and how did you experience the event? And then did you have any long lasting effects of that event. And if you are experiencing traumatic system symptoms, which I don't even know if we actually talked about last time, but if you are wondering if you are living from a traumatic experiencing a traumatic event, or having the past or continuing to the symptoms might feel and look very similar to depression, or anxiety, some of them you know, having flashbacks, intrusive memories, exhaustion, fatigue, anxiety, depression, changes in appetite, changes in sleeping, or irritable mood swings, you might be numbing by alcohol, or other drugs, you know, or other even ways to numb that emotional overwhelm that you're feeling. You might have difficulty concentrating, you might be kind of always on edge and irritable and like, you know, hyper arousal and hyper vigilance is one of the keys of PTSD, key symptoms. As we talk about trauma, those are symptoms as a result of trauma. But it can get confusing and maybe unclear is it? Are you experiencing depression? Are you experiencing the results, you experiencing symptoms and behaviors as a result of one traumatic event which we talked about the capital T trauma? Or is it that over a period of time, you might be exposed to the heavy days, many, like many, many, many moments of feeling invisible or not good enough or shamed, or feeling like you, you're gonna be feeling stupid, or that you don't quite get it or feeling othered over time, all of those moments of kind of small t trauma still trigger your stress response system so that you are actually responding as if you were exposed to a terrible hurricane or earthquake abuse. Right? So you're still your body's responding as if you had a big T trauma. So we talked about those two differences. Am i Does that make sense? Not only

Scott Benner 7:39
does that make sense, but you just I feel like somebody just threw open the curtains for me. I used to hate ordering my daughter's diabetes supplies, and never had a good experience. And it was frustrating. But it hasn't been that way for a while actually for about three years now. Because that's how long we've been using us med us med.com/juice box or call 888721151 for us med is the number one distributor for FreeStyle Libre systems nationwide. They are the number one specialty distributor for Omni pod dash. The number one fastest growing tandem distributor nationwide, the number one rated distributor index com customer satisfaction surveys. They have served over 1 million people with diabetes since 1996. And they always provide 90 days worth of supplies and fast and free shipping. US med carries everything from insulin pumps and diabetes testing supplies to the latest CGM like the libre three and Dexcom G seven. They accept Medicare nationwide and over 800 private insurers. Find out why us med has an A plus rating with the Better Business Bureau at us med.com/juice box or just call them at 888-721-1514 Dexcom G seven offers an easier way to manage diabetes without finger sticks. It is a simple CGM system that delivers real time glucose numbers to your smartphone, your smartwatch. And it effortlessly allows you to see your glucose levels and where they're headed. My daughter is wearing a Dexcom g7 Right now, and I can't recommend it enough. Whether you have commercial insurance, Medicare coverage, or no CGM coverage at all Dexcom can help you go to my link dexcom.com/juice box and look for that button that says Get a free benefits check. That'll get you going with Dexcom when you're there, check out the Dexcom clarity app where the follow Did you know that people can follow your Dexcom up to 10 people can follow you. Right now I'm following my daughter but my wife is also following her. Her roommates at school are following her. So I guess Arden is being followed right now by five people who are concerned for her health and welfare, and you can do the same thing. School Nurses, your neighbor, people in your family, everyone can have access to that information if you want them to have it. Or if you're an adult, and you don't want anyone to know, you don't have to share with anybody, it's completely up to you, Dex comm.com, slashed use Box links in the show notes links at juicebox podcast.com. And when you use my link to learn about Dexcom, you're supporting the podcast. I'm being being really genuine here, I was just having a conversation with a person whose details I'll keep very vague. But they experienced a significant amount of anxiety, they're medicated for it, they had a situation where the medication went away for a little bit. And they they told me they didn't realize how much the medication was helping them because as soon as the medication went away, it was overwhelming. And this person doesn't think of themselves as depressed. But told me that in their medical folder, it says, I forget the exact phrasing, but it's something basically says always sad. But they're not a sad person. But that's how the doctor sees them. They have this anxiety that they've been told they have without the medication and it's unmanageable. But when I think about what I know about their upbringing, Mother using pills, a lot of craziness. And you're talking and I think God is Is she not anxious? Is she not depressed? Is she just in a constant state of experiencing her younger life, and waiting for it to happen again, and again? And again? Like that's a really

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 11:40
interesting, actually. Yes. And because of her exposure to that, in her childhood, she is sensitized to that and kind of more aware, more, or like to maybe trying to anticipate, and trying to protect her body and mind from experiencing those feelings. Like we said last time, I think the research and information out there from trauma is still it's still new, in terms of how we define it, understand it and treat it, which is it's really fascinating. And then when we when we look at it through the lens of diabetes, that we talked about whether or not let's say you grew up in a very predictable, safe environment, as a child, then you are diagnosed, then are you having these micro moments that feel like trauma, because of how you're treated in the classroom, or how you're treated by others, or the shame that you experience constantly, if you do around your diagnosis and living with diabetes, or is it what we talked about the FFTs, you know, from Brene, Brown a first time experience, which is what we we do experience that as people living with diabetes, or caregiving where you're trying something new every time. And then you're having this expectation that you're supposed to kind of nail it because you did it. You nailed it yesterday. So I think that's where it's really kind of confusing and blurry. Are you experiencing some of those anxiety? Depression is that diabetes distress is that diabetes burnout? Is that as yet your body responding as if it were a trauma? Right, because of your past or not? Right? So it's, it's really blurry. And I think also really fascinating. And if someone wants to go do research on all of that, that would be I don't

Scott Benner 13:31
know how blurry it seems. I mean, it feels like it makes a lot of sense. You know, and I can even see how it could look like resilience. Because if you're, I'm going to use myself as an example, like I was around a lot of yelling, right? And it could be physical, sometimes not all that frequently. I'm trying to balance what the 70s was like, compared to what I would want to do now for my kids. So like, he got smacked more in the 70s. But it wasn't a full on assault DNA. I mean, that makes sense. But I grew up like that, like people were if he did something wrong, you got yelled at, there was a little bit of fear mongering to like manage you like right, there was always that like, It's good if they're a little scared feeling. I think of myself as very resilient, but maybe I'm just always on alert because of that, but it's manageable for me. So I look resilient. If it wasn't manageable for me, I'd look anxious. Is that right?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 14:28
Yes. Because because of having a little bit of stress is is helpful. And somewhere within as we talked about last time, is it your genetics? Is it your family generational resilience that is ingrained? And I guess that's also part of genetics. But somewhere in there you as you were exposed to to stressful situations. You learned how to adapt and respond and overcome,

Scott Benner 14:57
but that could be as easy as it just got lucky and conquered a couple of them. So I build up some confidence. And then I have this expectation it's going to go well, etc. Can that look at? Can I ask a weird question? I don't want to get too far off the path because I'm really interested in this conversation today. But could that look like narcissism? Can confidence look like narcissism when it's not narcissism? What's the difference between knowing you're good at something, being confident that it's going to go well, and actually being a narcissist? Is there a difference? Oh, gosh,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 15:30
they asked if, by the way, if you're interested in in narcissism, there's a really good book I just was talking about recently called The Wizard of Oz and other narcissists, just as theirs. So the question is, are you what's the difference between feeling confident and competent? Versus narcissism? Yeah, if

Scott Benner 15:51
I was speed dating with Superman, he was like, less than I'm very handsome, super strong, I look great in a bikini fly, you know, and you keep going online. He's just telling you the facts about his life. And like, so you don't mean by that? Like, so? Yes. Good. Well,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 16:06
I think well, Nurse narcissism is a true is a personality disorder diagnosed by the fact that they're excessively you're self centered, you're preoccupied with your own needs at the expense of others. And so I would say, when you're confident, competent in something, you're still maybe you're holding compassion and empathy. Whereas oftentimes with people with narcissism, they need the attention, they want people to admire them. But they really lack the empathy piece, or I say, compassion. Okay, so that would that I think that would be the marker of the difference.

Scott Benner 16:45
Perfect definition. I just wanted that out there for moving forward. That's Yes. Great. Thank you. Okay, I'm sorry, do you know where you? Did I cut you off to the point, you don't know where you

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 16:53
are? No, we're good. So okay, so we're talking about these three, kind of three different layers, how I'm envisioning is like these three different buckets. But they can also be layers of like this big T trauma, this kind of one event incident, these multiple moments of really feeling invisible, you experienced that fear that feeling of of not accepted, or not good enough, that can also lead to the trauma experience, and the third bucket of doing something for the first time, which can, you can have these moments of feeling doubtful of anxious of sadness, of loneliness, but over time, that doesn't necessarily lead to a stress, it's not triggering your stress response system so that you're having traumatic symptoms. Okay. So with that, I think if we're looking at going back to diabetes, and understanding trauma, as the way Brene Brown defines it a situation or environment over which you have no control, thinking about this from the context of mean, we feel like that all the time, you can feel like you have like you do all the right things, and then you still skyrocket or you still plumb it with your blood sugars, or you still experience the emotional toll. That can be feeling like you're in this constant traumatic state. And I was just envisioning, you know, I know, we talked, we've talked about your history. But imagine, like if you grew up in chaos, where stress was unpredictable, was uncontrollable. And then you learned you had these kinds of adaptive behaviors as a child to say, Okay, I'm going to, I'm going to try and feel safe in this environment by trying to predict, right predict outcomes, I'm going to try and figure out how can I be safe, I'm a trade control as much as I can, or at least tell myself I'm going to control as much as I can, I'm going to be a people pleaser, and avoid conflict. Those were all adaptive behaviors as a as a child to feel safe, then you get diagnosed with diabetes. And I think I feel like I see this and I hear this a lot on the on your podcast, as well as like, how could you not I just thinking about this question of how could you not go into a shame spiral or experiencing severe anxiety, depression, if you feel like you can control things, right. And then you get diagnosed, you're like, oh, my gosh, not only am I out of control with this diagnosis, but then feeling that sense of out of control, particularly in the new so you know, first year or when life changes, you experienced this kind of, like you're feeling out of control, you thought you could control everything, and then consequently, you're experiencing these kind of traumatic moments. I thought that was important to kind of note and reflect on. And so if you're listening and you're hearing that, I think it's really important to understand, like, what is what's the story, what's fueling this response in this behavior? Is it Just the diabetes, usually it's not, is it your childhood trauma is that all the other things going on in life that are feeling unpredictable and scary and overwhelming. And then you're you felt like you could live a life trying to be in control, and then you realize you aren't a

Scott Benner 20:17
you could live your whole life having impacts from this and not have any idea what it's them from. And just thinking, I'm an anxious person, or because I hear people say it all the time. Like, I'm just an anxious person. Yeah, right. Or, I don't know, I just am always expecting the worst thing to happen and blah, blah. But I've tried this a number of times, when I'm making the podcasts, I'll say to somebody who says somebody that I'm like, Are your parents alcoholics? And a lot of people will say yes, because alcoholism is pretty common. And so like, they'll say, Yes. And then they don't, they don't understand the connection between it all. And then you say a little bit of like, you know, the, some of the things you've just mentioned, like, you know, always being on alert or things being so like, you know, haphazard one, one minute, everything's fine. The next minutes not, is that exact explanation of what anxiety is, you're trying to be ready for something that you have no idea if or when it will ever come? That's anxiety, right? And yes, yeah. And so, if it's always looming, whether it's really there or not, you're still going to feel that way. And then I think the part you don't get is like, even if it's not, like, let's say, it just doesn't exist in your life anymore. But you still have the response, you come off strangely to your spouse or to your family, who then wants to know, why are you acting so strangely, and then you don't know you're acting strangely. And then these weird interpersonal, like, underlying issues come and they build on top of each other and build on top of each other, until you're in these problems, and you don't understand how you got there. And now I'm trying to imagine on top of that, you have that feeling already. And then you or your kid gets a chronic illness. Holy Hell, I knew it was coming. Eric, I knew it. I knew it. Here it is. And then your body rewards you by giving you more anxiety. Because see, this was really valuable for us. I told you something bad was coming. But is that kind of the point? Is that the path it takes? It

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 22:17
can I mean, and that's part of, you know, anxiety connects to a lot of the distortions you were just talking about, right? Like the magical thinking, or the catastrophic thinking, that's worst case scenario, thinking. And the trick we talked about, in my practice, you know, that anxiety lies to you, and says, Will you be prepared, be prepared? Because you never know what's gonna happen? And you think that that's going to reduce the pain? If and when something bad happens. But no one has ever said, Gosh, I'm so glad I worried about this thing happening. Because when it happened, I was I was so much more prepared. It felt it didn't feel as bad. Yes. That

Scott Benner 23:00
never happens. Fear is a waste of imagination, is what it ends up being. But anxiety is different than fear. Right? Yeah. Yeah. I

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 23:07
mean, they can be connected. But yes, yeah. But

Scott Benner 23:10
what yeah, not to dig too deep into it. But you can find reasonable things to be like, That's a scary thing. I should know how to I should know how to unlock my car in case I have an accident. You know, I have a seatbelt cutter. And a thing that breaks the window like, oh, that sounds like anxiety. But if you had a car accident as a young person, or someone was able to market to your anxiety properly, I could make anything sound necessary. I mean, a good salesman could could sell you anything. I don't know, this is all just very, I don't know if I'm being articulate enough. But I think that many people listening to this can say, Oh, wow, I did have either large T small t first time, trauma in my life as a child, I can see now that I that is still something I'm worried about. And then we have to make the leap to believe that that underlying anxiety is coming from that. I bet you there's a fair amount of people who think what you're talking about is Hocus Pocus, like, you know what I mean? Like, like therapy and talking about your past, there's plenty of people are like, just get over it. I don't know that that's a thing. You'd even know what's happening to you to get over. If that makes sense.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 24:22
Yes, I think it's, it's important, I believe, obviously my profession to understand why you're doing or thinking a certain way. And sometimes it's because of what happened to you yesterday. But most of the time, it's about what happened in the past and how your core your neuro pathways, your stress system, everything was formed. And you don't have to spend years looking back at all that right. But I think it's important to just spend a little time to look back and say, Oh, this this all these things happen. That's why I, when I hear this sound or smell that thing, or someone says this thing to me, or I have to prick my finger, I experienced these things,

Scott Benner 25:09
right? I get worried as we're talking about it that some people see themselves as so autonomous and conscious that they don't think about anything that happened before. It's this, you know, the wind blew I squinted, I made that decision. Like you don't mean like I am only who I am right now. I'm not a collection of the things that have happened to me in the past. But today's podcast is sponsored by the ever since CGM, boasting a six month sensor. The ever sent CGM offers you these key advantages distinct on body vibe alerts when higher low, a consistent and exceptional accuracy over a six month period. And you only need two sensors per year. No longer will you have to carry your CGM supplies with you. You won't have to be concerned about your adhesive not lasting, accidentally knocking off a sensor or wasting a sensor when you have to replace your transmitter. That's right. There's no more weekly or bi weekly hassles of sensor changes. Not with the ever sent CGM. It's implantable and it's accurate ever since cgm.com/juicebox. The Eversense CGM is the first and only long term CGM ever since sits comfortably right under the skin and your upper arm and it lasts way longer than any other CGM sensor. Never again will you have to worry about your sensor falling off before the end of its life. So if you want an incredibly accurate CGM, that can't get knocked off, and won't fall off. You're looking for the ever since CGM ever since cgm.com/juicebox. And I do think that's, I think a lot of people believe that I think a lot of people think therapy's meaningless because of those beliefs. And if you feel that way, that's great. But listen to what she's saying here about, you can all trace your life back a little bit and see moments where you're like, Oh, my God, that did happen to me, or that was scary. And so if you're one of those people who says like, I don't like being told what to do. That's a great one, right? You ever hear people say that very proudly? I don't like being told what to do. You know? And you're like, Well, yeah, it's because somebody controlled you, you know, at some point along the ways, and this is you trying to keep that from happening again. But there's also somebody out there who likes to be told what to do. And we're probably being controlled the exact same way. But for reasons I don't know, they it was comfortable to them instead of off putting and I don't know, I think what you just said about knowing yourself, and knowing why you feel the way you feel. I think that's at the core of anyone's ability to live a healthy and comfortable life. But, you know, get a podcast, talk about yourself constantly. You'll figure it out pretty quick.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 27:55
Oh, my gosh, okay. Well, yes. Okay. So we'll end it just on that last thought on that point. It can feel scary. And you might not even know, if you do have a sense of what is causing or driving some of your thoughts, behaviors, that it can feel scary to do that. And so you know, there's no point in opening that box. But you also might not even know what's there. Sure. And that can also be overwhelming. Yeah. are scary. How

Scott Benner 28:26
can I tell you the reefer story, and then you can just move on, I'll let you go. I just put an episode up last week. It's called after dark prison, a female in our 30s mother of a few kids. And we spent an hour and a half laying out her life like she came on because she had been to prison with type one diabetes. And I wanted to hear about that. But the interview just went. I mean, it went so well. I'm proud of it. It went so well. And we basically dug through her early life of a lot of verbal abuse from her parents, from her dad, and no defense from her mom. And eventually she ends up in foster care. And then there she meets other people who were not treated well. And now they have the Justice League of foster care kids. So now they can break more rules and do more things. And they're all stunted at some point in their life, right? They're all kind of frozen wherever their trauma happened. She gets out of foster care. As babies the state takes a baby from her big trauma, right? Then she has more kids with a person who she shouldn't have been with. And then he's a criminal. And then she becomes a criminal. And then she defraud the government somehow gets caught, gets thrown in jail for two years during jail times treated terribly with her diabetes on and On and on and on. And I hope when people listen to that story, I mean, you can hear it any way you want to. And I'm not saying she didn't make decisions along the way that she could have made better she absolutely could have. But if you look at her as a whole story, and not just a caricature of a person who's been in jail, somebody abused her when she was little, and it sent her on a path. And then she met more abusive people. And to the point where she said at one point, she thought, because she knew how to vacuum and clean, she was better than the other people that she knew. That was her Mendoza line for success. She's like, I know what a vacuum and clean and I'm like, Oh, my God, like no one taught her anything once ever. And now you look at her in her 30s. And you want to be able to, and people want to judge her, they want to go look at her and go like, geez, yeah, there's no resilience here. She gave up everywhere along the way, broke every rule she could she didn't, you know, she didn't work hard. She didn't do anything like that. Yes, but what if someone would have been kinder when she was four, like, you know what I mean, like, and that's a bigger and more kind of ham fisted example. But some version of some of that happens to a lot of people. And maybe it doesn't end up with you in jail, maybe it just ends up with you in a personal, you know, relationship where it's always just a little contentious. And you don't really know why, or something like that. Like, I just think that that's important to know that, that what happened to her, on some level or another probably happens to almost everybody, and all the things that we've talked about in the past so far, your genetic makeup, the situation you're in the privilege you have of being loved by somebody, you know, because what a difference it would be to have a car accident as a seven year old and be surrounded by supportive people, or have that same car accident, and not have support, and then let that trauma tumble away and suck you down some sort of like, you know, siphon, anyway. Yes. Yeah. I feel like I don't have any clear thoughts on this. But I feel like I have a ton of them. I don't know how to put them together, if that makes sense.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 32:12
Yeah, I get that. Okay. Because it is it's it's so rich, and intense and important. But it's hard to lay it out in a very clear, clean outline. So I think we're trying to figure our way through here. I

Scott Benner 32:27
just hope that people listening can do it for themselves. Because what this really is, in my mind is a star map. Like you're the planet in the middle, and all these other points of light around you have pushed you pulled you influenced you helped you hurt you loved you not loved you along the way. And that those are all the reasons why you are who you are. And then we meet people as adults, and we say stuff like, she's a bitch. It's not that simple. Right? Right now, it's not my job to fix you. But it should be, oh, God, I'm going to sound like a hippie. It should be. It should be our jobs, to at least look at people and say, you know, there might be a really good reason that this is happening. And why don't I try not to be one more reason for this to go wrong for them. You know, you can say it any way you want, like Be the bigger person or whatever, or, but you know, when it all comes down to it. I follow David Foster Wallace his advice, and when somebody cuts me off, I assume they gotta go to the bathroom. They're not just being a jerk. They're probably just being a jerk, Erica, but it doesn't help me to feel that way. So I just give everyone the benefit of the doubt.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 33:44
I love No, I love that. Because that's that's your you just answered the question. You know, there. There's a story. What's the story fueling the behavior is what I think either Brene Brown or Dr. Perry usually asked. Yeah, there's there's always something underneath. And

Scott Benner 33:58
that's your it's very important to you, as you're figuring out your thing, but to the outside world looking in my perspective is it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if they have a good reason for being like this or not. It doesn't benefit you to walk around thinking that everybody's a piece of shit all the time. Like it's just it's hard on you. You don't I mean, like and why do we want to assume that people are bad on purpose? That's a weird thing, because some people don't feel that way. Right. So even that's an impulse from a variable from your past, right? Yes. Yeah. Okay. I'm sorry. Okay. I could No, no, that's good forever. So go

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 34:41
ahead. Yes, me too. Yeah. Okay. I was just looking up. I think we could maybe transition into talking about the aces, which I just was looking at the time it was developed aces or adverse childhood experiences developed in 1995 by researchers Vincent the Ready, Robert, and their colleagues at the Center for Disease and Control Centers for Disease Control. So thank you. And this is a tool that they started implementing and using it didn't really it hasn't really good didn't gain traction until a few years ago. I think we talked about that. And it's a it's a questionnaire, you could you could look it up right now, and take it, but it's for questions for adults, so 18 and over, but they're asking you if you experienced any of these 10 bad things before the age of 18. And these are things like, you know, consistent conflict in the in the household divorce, abuse, addiction, and neglect. And from the recent data, they have discovered that 60% of the population of the adult population has experienced at least one of these things before the age of 18. Jesus, really? Yes, 30% of the population has at least three or more. And what they discovered from these results is that the higher the score, the more risk there is for health disease, mental health problems, relationship issues, etc. Can I read them real quick? Yeah, please. Yeah, wait, I just kind of summarize Go ahead. Physical

Scott Benner 36:20
abuse, emotional abuse, sexual abuse, emotional neglect, physical neglect, parental separation, or divorce, mother treated violently, substance abuse, mental illness, incarceration. How many people have three or more

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 36:37
over 60% 30% of three or more 60% of have at least one. So this is so when we talk about I think it maybe it's important to yet to talk about the aces in conjunction with this idea of growing up feeling safe and secure. So if you grew up in a household, that the the stress, the pattern of stress was predictable, it was controllable is more moderate. That is a privilege in general, not like we're not talking about capital P privilege, that's that is a privilege. And that pattern of stress that was moderate controllable leads to more resilience, because like we talked about in the previous episodes in the in the parenting series, as well, you experience a little bit of stress, and then you come back to a safe and, and loving parental figure. And that's how you develop the resilience. And because of that, then your stress response system is more regulated. And that leads to as Dr. Perry says, a cascade of secondary and tertiary benefits because you're more capable of managing stress. So now, if we think about that household, and then juxtapose it with, if you grew up in a household where you had one, or three or more of these adverse childhood experiences, you are at greater risk to develop these other issues, health issues, mental health issues, relationship issues, problems with your profession. And what the studies one study from the Department of Health and Human Services found that while all children are at risk of aces, numerous studies showed inequities in these experiences. And these inequities are linked to the historical social and economic environments in which some families live. So that's where it this this conversation around environment, your family, is that that privilege, but then also is connected to how you were able to develop resilience. But also, it's important to note that even children who were exposed to a lot of these aces, they also showed, I don't have the numbers here but had a height. A lot of people demonstrated resilience despite these aces. Yeah.

Scott Benner 38:58
So it doesn't befall everybody and ruin them. But yeah, it certainly could. And also, you have to start thinking about the numbers inside of the numbers, like I listed 10 things. And but then go ask yourself, like how many people have mental illness? And how many people experience you know, spousal abuse or how many people and you start looking at? I mean, if there's 10 options, and each option has a fairly big percentage of likelihood, then the likelihood that you're covered by a number of these, this is significant, or at least I mean, I looked at it, I've got a couple of these from growing up to you. Would you mind we never talked about you, but do you have any of them? I mean, look at the list again, probably physical emotional, sexual, emotional neglect, physical neglect, separation, divorce mother treated violently substance abuse, mental illness, incarceration,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 39:50
not clinic No, not clinically, I would have to say I grew I definitely had a you know, a very predictable all controllable household Yeah, then there's the diabetes factor, right, which happened younger. But that anyway, I'm gonna pause there. Also,

Scott Benner 40:09
there are significant impacts from having a chronic illness too. So you could just find problems in a different spot like so even if you grew up, luckily, do what you call privilege. I call it luck, like in this in this context, right? If you luckily did not experience any of these things, and you still got type one diabetes, there you go. Like there's your big T right there, followed by a whole lot of baby T's come in forever and ever and ever with low blood sugars. And, you know, here's your juice box, you know, Do this, don't forget your meter, like all these other little things that we think of is not just important, because they are not just safety things because they are but they're little, I think of them as like, little dings on your soul. You know what I mean? Like, over and over again, like you're trying to leave the house, you're running out the door, you're feeling like a real person, and then somebody looks and goes, Don't forget your kit. Oh, yeah, I have diabetes, I got this bag. You didn't even like, hey, you know, you're gonna go play at the park. That's great. Hold on, what's your blood sugar before you go? Like that, like thing thing? You know, let me just get you over and over and over again, little bits, little bits, which is to say like, I wouldn't stop doing that if I was a parent. I mean, I try not to be overbearing about it. You can't just forget that you have diabetes. But there's that. I don't know what the feeling here is, though, is, you know, you come out of the womb, and hopefully you're, you're at 100%. You know what I mean? And then something happens. And sometimes you dip down and you get to come back up again, right, you get a cold, you fight the cold, you come back up again. But some things you get. And you never can re ascend all the way. And if you start having a number of those things happen to you know, that's the pressure and the weight of life, right? Like I can't get out from under these things that have happened to me. And then you get these little, these little bits here and here. Like my friend of mine struggling just to get there CGM is right now having these long arguments and conversations on the phone arguing with insurance companies and going back and forth. And you think, Oh, no big deal, you have insurance, you're lucky you'll get them. But after hours on the phone having to say to somebody, give me this thing, that you know what? I don't really want, I just need it. Like you don't even mean like, like, so I need this thing. You're telling me I can't have it. I've explained to you 1000 times I have diabetes, I've had diabetes for years, you know, I have diabetes, why don't have to reprove it to get like, Why do I have to sit down and go over it again? Like, why do I have to relive the fact that I have diabetes with you to get this thing that I don't really want, I just need and that I'm telling you takes a little piece away. And if you're lucky, you can rebound in any mean? Yes.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 42:46
But even let's say you don't have any of the aces or major T traumas. But that scenario that you just described, over and over and over again, whether you're the person living with it, or a caregiver, that is stressful and triggering your stress response system. And that's over time, that does become the big T trauma. And so I just wanted it. I know, we've said that, but I think it's important to really highlight that that is as if you had this one event, but it's also

Scott Benner 43:15
a good example for why like all the sudden you lose your shirt on a neighbor who's like, can you eat that? And you're like, you know what, here we go. Like, I'm gonna let it all out right here, because you don't know that's gonna happen. Like you don't I mean, like, what, just one day, it's just too much. And it just tips the other way. What's that? Slowly I turned? What's that old movie? And like, so like, I don't know, I'm not referencing things I haven't even seen. It's like that kind of push you over the edge moment. And I don't think that like people don't just go off half cocked, they have these little things that happen that build up. And then like you said, all the sudden, it all gets pressed together and do it into a ball. You can't tell one little trauma from the other one. It's just this horrible feeling I have now that exists because I have diabetes or because something else happened to me that I can't like and then I look over here and this person's got all these same problems, too. And they seem completely resilient. And they're just smiling and tripping through life gone. Oh, yeah. What are some of the lessons you've learned from diabetes? You like, like, I always hear that conversation. And I'm like, I believe in it. I don't want to go down the wrong rabbit hole. Like I believe in it. I believe that I am better off because my daughter has type one. I also believe that I would be happy to give away all the things that I'm better off about. If she didn't have it. I think she's better off to I think I do think she's more resilient and blah, blah, blah. But if I was a piece of she didn't, that resiliency wouldn't have come to her it would have been something else and then she'd be running around going No, there's nothing good that's come from diabetes. Then two people online, argue with each other all day long about it. Oh though, there's plenty to learn from type one. I don't care. I have all these problems like, again, it's Those little like points of light that surround you, that changed your perspective and their perspective, your planets pointing one way and there's pointing another way. And that's where all these little arguments come from all the time when I see people arguing about, you know what, you know, if you want people with type one diabetes to argue Erica, go on Facebook and say, Hey, how do I get a disability? Pass it Disney live,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 45:23
but yeah, I've been seeing those conversations. Yeah. We're

Scott Benner 45:28
not disabled. Yes, we are. No, we're not. Yes, we are.

Lija Greenseid 45:31
I can't stand up that low. My blood sugar gets low. Yes, you can. I ran a marathon back and forth, and back and forth. And I just want to get in the middle of it and go, stop. Why does it matter?

Scott Benner 45:42
She needs the past. You don't move on. Alright. Right. But it's not that easy. Because of all of this, that you were telling me about? It's freaking me out. This conversation is freaking me out. Just so you know. I'm so sorry. Aces were? Yeah. So

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 46:00
aces. I think the we're talking about you know, the, when you experience it, how you experience it. Also, I think it's important to not only talk about what happened to you, but also what didn't happen, like what, what was not there that you may be needed, which was that safe and secure. environment. And what you're talking about is Dr. Perry says your your ability to enjoy the world and enjoy others is related to how regulated you are, which is directly related to what happened to you? Because if are you operating from a place where you feel safe and secure? are you operating from a place that you're constantly aware and wanting to respond in fight or flight or protect yourself. And when we're talking about if you feel safe and secure, then you're also able to be more curious and go out and explore the world. And I was thinking about this in terms of your how you manage the diabetes, right because some people leave the hospital with their pomp and their CGM on or at least mostly their CGM, some people aren't able to do that. There's all different reasons why. And then some people are more comfortable saying, Okay, we're going to switch from injection to pump or we're gonna go eat this thing on day five, or we're going to, or we're not. And I also from this kind of framework of trauma, I was thinking about, is that related, if you're under threat, you're feeling under threat, you aren't very curious, or you aren't feeling very confident in trying new things. But if you are from either historically, from your family of origin, or even present day feeling safe, secure, are you then able to make those jumps or try new things in terms of your management? I don't know. I just thought it was an interesting point to think about,

Scott Benner 47:59
my son's looking for a job right now. And I said, Hey, listen, I just want to tell you, I think this is all gonna work out for you, you know, if you're feeling worried, or like pressure or anything like that, I don't think he shouldn't. He goes, I don't feel that way. And I was like, and so I go, not law. And he goes, No, I know, you guys got me. I was like, Oh, okay. That was it. That's the same thing you're talking about in slightly different contexts. Like, he's like, No, it'll be alright. I know. It'll be alright. But he doesn't know. It'll be alright. He believes it. Because we set up a safe, secure, loving place for him to live and to and to grow up. And his experience is that things work out. Not always quickly. But in the end. Yeah. So he can take risks, which and because he turned, he turned a job down because he was like, this isn't what I want to do. And it wasn't like a malt. Like, you know, like when I don't know what generation of these kids now I have no idea. I don't keep track of that stuff. Like I don't know if I'm an extra Milena. I don't know what I am. Well,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 48:59
what? What year was he born? 2000. Say that is? Well, Gen Z. He's Gen Z. Technically,

Scott Benner 49:09
it seems to me like that's a statement where people be like, Yeah, well, his generation, like, they don't care about this, like blah, blah, blah. Like, it's not like that. He just, he has a plan. He is going to execute the plan. There's certain experiences he asked to get from jobs he offered, he was offered a job. And it wasn't, it would have just been a job. He would not have been able to get the experience and he has the luxury. Oh my god America, he has the privilege to say no to that job, because he knows the next one will come along. Whereas when I was his age, it would not have mattered what job you offered me. I would have said yes. And I would have taken it like literally I worked in a you know, I've worked in sheet metal shops, I've collected credit card debts, I've cut lawns, anybody who stood in front of me and said if you show up here at this time, I'll pay you. I was like okay, and I was there and I did not have any problem. Obviously, Okay, interesting. All right. I

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 50:03
think you know, when one thing I will share, you know, you asked me about my aces. When I think about my my family history in relation to trauma, I was just thinking about I was diagnosed at age 12. Two years later, my brother was diagnosed with type one when he was 10. And then a year later, our house burned down in the Laguna Beach Firestorm was there a lot of lots of houses. So I, when I think about my parents, and like, that was a lot for them to endure. And we got through it, there was a sense of like, resilience, like this is hard, but it was maybe leaning more. So in the like, we can do this and not as much space for like grief, which is probably why I do what I do now. But the I think about my dad and all that he endured, was had a lot of trauma growing up and built a lot of resilience in in response to that. Yeah, and leaned into the like, we can do this mindset. And so I think there's so going back to like, why is it important to look back as to how you operate today? Your history is rich with evidence, right?

Scott Benner 51:08
So if you if you're hit with something that requires resilience, and you have it, then you get a story like your dad's. But if you're hit with something, you don't have it? Are you doomed? Or can you recognize it? And go back and find these things? I mean, I know you believe that that's possible, you probably wouldn't do what you do for a living, but like, but what's the step there? Like, if you're listening to this right now, and you go, I am anxious all the time, and there is no reason for it. And I heard a couple of those things. That aces list, I did live through that. And then my kid got diabetes, and oh, my God, I feel like this. What do you do? Like you only mean like, what do you do that? Like, because listening to a podcast isn't gonna fix it? Like it might make you aware of it. But it's not. There are some people who say if you give something voice, it does clear it which I have seen work for some people, but for a lot of people, you're going to need help, right? Yes.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 52:00
And that what you just said, that's part of what therapy is, is speaking something out separating yourself from that. But if that's part of your narrative, you don't even understand why Yeah, and how its how that is impacting you, just by speaking it out in the presence of someone else to hear it and validate it, and then help you differentiate your story from your past your current story,

Scott Benner 52:26
can you tell me what's the significance of saying it in front of another person?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 52:30
Oh, it's for it to to know that it to recognize that it actually happened, that there is pain in that story to be heard and validated in an objective way. So I'm not going to be saying well, you should have done that. Or, like, why wouldn't did that happen? That way? There's, it's clear, it's just being giving space to something that happened to you by speaking it out in the presence of an objective listener is therapeutic, because you are able to simply be validated that that happened is the is the biggest first therapeutic tool, right to say, Wow, that sounds like it was really intense.

Scott Benner 53:15
Oh my god, Catholic confession. That's the That's, I guess, the basis of that idea. So okay, so here I am in 2024, realizing something that I guess people have known for hundreds of years, but nevertheless, sort of longer, but so just saying it out loud to somebody who won't, who will just hear it, because you can't just say it to yourself, you can't go into a room and be like, I murdered a hobo. Like that doesn't make it go I don't know why I said that. Because I think it sounds funny, and I know that that's not like, you know, like I just I gotta like Friday night, I went out I got crazy. I did some coke and I killed on faker. Like you can't say that in a room and make it go away. And not that you could ever make obviously murdering your person going away is a big example I shouldn't have made but but like, if you go into go in and sit with a priest and say, Look, I did this thing. It alleviates some of it. Saying it to yourself doesn't make it go away saying to somebody else does make it go away. Also, I believe if you say something like that to a priest, they do encourage you to turn yourself into the police. If I was

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 54:19
that from personal experience.

Scott Benner 54:22
I think it's an episode of mash I saw but okay. But if I go to you, and I say, Eric, I, what happens there? What's your legal? I know this is a weird turn. But if I go to you and I say Hey, I think I killed somebody with my car the other night. I'm not sure. We're just the legal legality, why

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 54:45
there's tariffs off rule, which is I am mandated to report you if you come in and tell me that you are thinking about harming somebody and then you you can. You've identified who that person is As I would have to then report that, if it's in the past, I think it really? Yeah. If it was conditional, yeah, it kind of depends.

Scott Benner 55:09
Interesting. Oh, all right. Okay, this all seems important, for reasons that I can't exactly put together right now. But like, what I'm trying to, I guess what I'm trying to like peel apart here is for people who don't see the value in going and talking to somebody, like, what does that accomplish for them? You put it into words, I still think it's a little nebulous for people listening, like, but I know for sure that saying it out loud, is very valuable. Like I'm 100% certain about that. Yes,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 55:40
it decreases the your isolation from that experience, any kind of shame, or you're, you've lived in a space where you've kind of minimized it, where people might come in and tell me stories, and I'll say, that is significant. Trauma, like not overuse trauma, but real, real trauma. And they're

Scott Benner 56:00
like, Oh, my, there's like, just like a whole hot pan on my arm. Right, right. Right. Like that kind of thing. Gotcha. Okay, yes. And

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 56:08
so it's bringing to life, my pain that you've been carrying, and then learning how to grieve, heal and heal from it eventually, right? But just by speaking it out loud in the presence of someone who can be an objective listener and validate it is so powerful for the human spirit. Because you might not know how to validate it for yourself or even know that it needs attention, right? Until you speak it out. Do

Scott Benner 56:35
you need the forgiveness piece to somebody? Because you don't offer forgiveness to people, right?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 56:40
Most people know I mean, that's that's their journey, right? If someone is living in a space of of shame, and guilt, for whatever reason, that's their journey. And sometimes it looks like forgiveness. Sometimes it looks more like acceptance. It really is. Forgiveness is a complicated concept also to be worked on, and addressed in therapy, because you

Scott Benner 57:01
can I guess you would contextualize what they did, which might lead them to be able to accept it, which could look like forgiveness. And maybe just make them feel a little better. But then you got to go. Wow, all this stuff. I never really thought about how like 12 steps or you know, all these other like, they all have little pieces of unburdening yourself in there. Interesting. Wow, that's very complicated being a person. slightly complicated. I'm sorry. Is there something else you want to talk about that? I

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 57:36
think? Maybe, do we pause there we can go into the you know, classic PTSD, but maybe we I don't know what our timing is, like. Save that for next time. Okay.

Scott Benner 57:48
Yeah, I'm happy to I'm happy to. Oh, I see your your part here. Yeah. This was a big part. Part Three. Yes. And then I and then I got chatty in the middle and screw that up for you? Well, I mean, yeah, well, we'll just do it next time, we'll just do PTSD and chronic illness. In our next conversation. That's all.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 58:07
Yeah, I think in general, but you know, we're from today understanding, I think a that how, how are you experiencing? Or are you experiencing trauma? In what capacity? Did you were you exposed to one of these adverse childhood experiences? And if so, and I think your question going back to like, what do you do about it? With, you know, you're realizing, gosh, I did have an ace, or I am or I didn't, but I'm experiencing these traumatic trauma symptoms. Yeah. And I think understanding what people are like, Well, where do you start? Oftentimes, people come into therapy that again, or know where to start? I think it can be important to look at, okay, what are your current stressors? And then moving out? What are your social support systems? What is your family of origin story? Yeah. And when, when you're, when you're experiencing anxiety, it also can feel anxious, you can feel anxiety around what, you know, how do I under understand the root cause of everything. But also that's part of what you know, your therapist or, or anyone else that you're, you know, I'm thinking about? You said mentioned, confession, or even, you know, a church person, the counselor there should be trained to help you navigate and then start making connections. But even now, if you're experiencing anxiety, and you're like, What do I do, I can't go to therapy. I can't I don't have time for all these other things. Understanding, going back to some of our coping skill tools, right like that. You can Google anything around grounding exercises, deep breathing, going back to the basics of learning how to regulate your body physically is a great place to start. Yeah.

Scott Benner 59:51
It occurs to me that as we talk in in modern times about oh, there's so many more anxious people now I always think like there's Probably no more anxious people now than there was before. I just think maybe we talk about it more. Also, we've made a couple of things in life verboten that people were clearly using to like smoking, for example, right? Like, we have significantly quelled cigarette smoking. But how many people were managing their anxiety with cigarette smoking? Probably a lot. And now all of a sudden, a person who before wouldn't have seen themselves as anxious is probably like, No, I'm very anxious, or you mean, like, there's things like that, that, that as society changes, shines lights on other ideas. Now, maybe there are more people with anxiety that then there, there were in the past, I have no idea. I'm not looking at him. But this is as deep as I'm gonna look into it is to wonder out loud, it just does occur to me that we are in a sense, we are in a societal moment now, where people are also not as embarrassed to say something's not going well. When it's spoken about colloquially, you'll hear people say, I've said it before, like everybody wants a diagnosis. Like everybody wants to say they have a thing now all the sudden, like, I've never seen adults walking around and going, like, I think I'm this I think I'm that I'm like, oh my god, like, okay, like, like you so many feet, it feels like they want to identify their problem, somehow, like, right, like, I want to give a name to my problem. But I think it probably would be more valuable to give a voice to the what got you to the problem. And then just to say, Oh, I have this, see. And then that'd be the

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:01:26
right. You don't there's there's such their interest, interesting conversation around, you know, the DSM, the diagnosis manual. And even the ACE study, there's, there are critics of these things, because then it's saying, Okay, well, great. You have, you have five aces, and now you have now we can identify you as having PTSD. That's great. But let's we want to understand how can we help heal people and understand, not

Scott Benner 1:01:53
just paint them and then go, Okay, we'll go away. You have this now? Like, right, like, yeah, I want to get past this idea. Are there people walking around who have been through those aces? who legitimately don't have life struggles? Where is it impossible to have those things happen to you and not be impacted by them?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:02:11
I don't know if I could, like, I wish I could give you like a study. But I mean, I think that, in general, the research has shown that yes, you certainly can be exposed to these aces and, and succeed, and you've demonstrated resilience, you've overcame that adversity. But then there's also the data that says, well, that also can really impact your your mental health, your physical health, your overall functioning. But again, going back to the question of like, Are there more people with anxiety? Or are we just having that conversation and diagnosing more is, is a complicated line that we've kind of talked about this a little bit in past episodes. I think that the beauty of it, though, is, is normalizing the experience that people are, I think there probably is more anxiety based on a lot of things like the internet and social media, and even just thinking about with diabetes, you know, when you were diagnosed, like I was 30 years ago, you could hide it. And you would not, you didn't have any beeps, or things on your body. And consequently, I didn't have any teachers telling me like, who's ringing who's beeping or kids, everyone, you know, you beep and all the kids look at you in the classroom, and you have that micro moment of like, Oh, I'm different, right? I didn't have any of that even

Scott Benner 1:03:23
your health, you can kick the can down the road, because it's not hurting you in the moment. So you don't even say it. Yeah,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:03:29
that's interesting. And so now with, even with the, you know, the the, all this technology, their psychological implications of, of caregivers, looking at the numbers all day, my mom had no idea what my number was until she would download my CGM or look at my, you know, fake life.

Scott Benner 1:03:50
42

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:03:55
there are opportunities for anxiety to be triggered more so. And we're talking about it more. And we're understanding what it looks like more. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:04:04
yeah, gotcha. Okay. Well, I appreciate this. As always, I'm fascinated by all this and like, and looking at the different pathways that you could end up where you are and, and I also am very cognizant of the idea that like, there are some people who are like, I don't end up somewhere I make choices to get places. And then there are people who are like, I don't have any of these problems. And maybe they don't like maybe some of them don't, but maybe some of them do, and just think they don't land in the end. If you're happy. Is that enough? Like, you know, at what point do you want to just live your life and not be working on your life? There's just a lot of interesting questions for people to ask themselves in here. And I think just by talking back and forth like this, you allow them to wonder what those questions are, you know, anyway, appreciate it very much.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:04:51
Yes. Thank you.

Scott Benner 1:05:01
A huge thanks to Dexcom for supporting the podcast and for sponsoring this episode dexcom.com/juicebox Go get yourself a Dexcom g7 right now using my link. A huge thanks to us met for sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast. Don't forget us med.com/juice box this is where we get our diabetes supplies from you can as well use the link or call 888-721-1514 Use the link or call the number get your free benefits check so that you can start getting your diabetes supplies the way we do from us med. I want to thank the ever since CGM for sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast. Learn more about its implantable sensor, smart transmitter and terrific mobile application at ever sent cgm.com/juicebox Get the only implantable sensor for longterm where get ever since if you are a loved one was just diagnosed with type one diabetes, and you're looking for some fresh perspective. The bold beginning series from the Juicebox Podcast is a terrific place to start. That series is with myself and Jenny Smith. Jenny is a CDC es a registered dietician and a type one for over 35 years. And in the bowl beginning series Jenny and I are going to answer the questions that most people have after a type one diabetes diagnosis. This series begins at episode 698 In your podcast player, or you can go to juicebox podcast.com. And click on bold beginnings in the menu. I know that Facebook has a bad reputation. But please give the private Facebook group for the Juicebox Podcast. A healthy once over Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes. The group now has 47,000 members in it, it gets 150 new members a day. It is completely free. And at the very least you can watch other people talk about diabetes, and everybody is welcome type one type two gestational loved ones, everyone is welcome. Go up into the feature tab of the private Facebook group. And there you'll see lists upon lists of all of the management series that are available to you for free in the Juicebox Podcast, becoming a member of that group. I really think it will help you it will at least give you community you'll be able to kind of lurk around see what people are talking about. Pick up some tips and tricks. Maybe you can ask a question or offer some help Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes on Facebook. If you're not already subscribed or following in your favorite audio app, please take the time now to do that. It really helps the show and get those automatic downloads set up so you never miss an episode. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast. The episode you just heard was professionally edited by wrong way recording. Wrong way recording.com

#1244 Juicy Jaw

Episode 1244: The Importance of Authenticity in Diabetes Support

Melissa highlights the value of authenticity and honesty in diabetes support communities in this insightful episode. Learn how sharing genuine experiences can foster understanding and support among individuals managing diabetes. Melissa emphasizes the importance of personal connections and how they can enhance the effectiveness of diabetes management advice and support. Tune in to discover the power of authenticity in diabetes care.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends and welcome to episode 1244 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Today I'll be speaking with Melissa she has a 12 year old son named Anthony who has type one diabetes and she came on the show today because she feels like she might owe Anthony an apology. Please don't forget that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan or becoming bold with insulin. When you place your first order for ag one with my link, you'll get five free travel packs and a free year supply of vitamin D. Drink ag one.com/juice box. I know that Facebook has a bad reputation, but please give the private Facebook group for the Juicebox Podcast a healthy once over Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes. If you're a US resident who has type one diabetes or is the caregiver of someone with type one and a US resident please go to T one D exchange.org/juice. Box and complete the survey when you finish the survey you are helping to support type one diabetes research he won the exchange.org/juice box thank you so much.

This show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries G voc hypo penne Find out more at G voc glucagon.com. Forward slash juicebox. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by ever since the ever since CGM is more convenient requiring only one sensor every six months. It offers more flexibility with its easy on Easy Off smart transmitter and allows you to take a break when needed ever since cgm.com/juicebox. Today's episode is sponsored by Medtronic diabetes, a company that's bringing together people who are redefining what it means to live with diabetes. Later in this episode, I'll be speaking with Mark, he was diagnosed with type one diabetes at 28. He's 47. Now he's going to tell you a little bit about his story. To hear more stories from the Medtronic champion community or to share your own story. Visit Medtronic diabetes.com/juice box and check out the Medtronic champion hashtag on social media.

Melissa 2:33
I'm Melissa. I am 43 years old and I'm a mom to two children. One of them my son, he is 12 and he is a type one diabetic.

Scott Benner 2:45
So your son is 12. He's got type one. How old was he? When he was diagnosed?

Melissa 2:49
He was right after his 11th birthday. Oh, this is pretty recent than last year. So like a year and a half. It was eight. He turned 11 in April. And then he was diagnosed may 2022. Was

Scott Benner 3:03
this complete surprise? Or is there a type one in your family? complete

Melissa 3:07
surprise. I had no idea. I think after listening to the podcast and hearing you talk to other people and ask them like Do you have any autoimmune in your family? Like I can go back to like my Nana, who always held our hands are kind of wham was like my hands and I can't I don't have any tears. I can't cry and they don't know what's wrong with me like those kinds of things. My dad has type two, and he has very severe psoriasis like kept him out of the army at the time psoriasis. So there's definitely autoimmune in the family. But no type one. Wow.

Scott Benner 3:39
Yeah, you gotta love fig. You found all of them like that. Was it interesting for you to pick through and go? No tears? Hold on a second. And like, Did you look into it? You go online.

Melissa 3:49
So we didn't. So my Nana and I were not close. So at the time, I just sort of like would roll my eyes at it. And it wasn't until Hearing you say that, that I was like, oh, wait a minute, that might have actually been a thing. Yeah. So just sort of put it in the autoimmune basket. Yeah, I

Scott Benner 4:06
don't know. Something. I never know if I pronounced it right. But so so drugs, so drugs, maybe s j o g r e n s, that's probably that.

Melissa 4:15
And I've never ever heard of that. So Ra

Scott Benner 4:17
probably right. You're you're describing with their hands. You think she might have had like our like, rice. Okay. Wow, okay. And wait, your father. What war did it keep him out of

Melissa 4:30
no war. He just wanted to join the army. So he's an identical twin. And right after high school him and his twin brother were going to join the army and his brother who, incidentally it's funny because they share all the same afflictions but he doesn't have psoriasis. And so his my dad psoriasis kept him out of the army. And my uncle went on to join

Scott Benner 4:49
the army. What year was that? You know, like, like, roughly though? Yep. So

Melissa 4:53
my dad graduated high school in 1977. Couldn't get in

Scott Benner 4:57
the Army in 77 because of dry skin. I must have been insane.

Melissa 5:01
Yeah, yeah. And he's gone through like, you know, different light treatments, different medications to try and he has it for the most part under control. He's on, I think humera for it. And so he'll look at, it's gonna be like, Oh, it's fine. I don't need this humera anymore, and then he'll have a flare up. And I'm like, yeah, that's how you stay on the humera.

Scott Benner 5:20
Yeah, yeah, yeah, well, that those injectables are are fairly new, but pretty impressive for what they accomplished so far. Okay. All right. Yeah. All right. So your son is 12. He's a type one for a year. Why are you on the podcast?

Melissa 5:34
I just really looking back after his diagnosis, couldn't believe, number one, how I gaslighted my own son. Like after the diagnosis, I'm divorced. And I'm remarried. And his father is also remarried. And it got to the point where I said, for the four of us, like we owe this kid a collective apology, because he has a little bit of anxiety. And every symptom could be explained away by either a growth spurt or a little bit of anxiety. And so it was important for me to really apologize to him because he had said, I think something's wrong. And maybe we should go to the doctor. And I'm like, Anthony, we've gone to the doctor about other things, and you're fine. And I think it's a growth spurt, or I think it's anxiety, I think it's really taking the time to be like, listen, we owe you an apology over the things that you said, were happening to your body. And I assumptions like, you're fine. And I also co parent drew diabetes with my ex husband and his wife. And you know, me and my husband are trying to figure it out our way and you're talking about four very different personalities and how you manage diabetes, with these four different personalities.

Scott Benner 6:42
A quick Google is anxiety, autoimmune. And anxiety disorder can be caused by multiple factors such as genetics, environmental stressors and medical conditions. New research also indicates that chronic anxiety symptoms that will not go away can be due to an autoimmune response triggered by common infections. I'm telling you, I am not a doctor. I'm not a researcher. I've been doing this podcast long enough. I don't think I've ever met somebody who has type one in their family who doesn't also start talking about oh, my sister, her sister's very anxious or my aunt was or like, I don't know, like, it just, it feels hard to ignore to me. You know?

Melissa 7:19
Like, that's totally reasonable and my whole like, there's a whole side of my family. I mean, we'll be choking and I'm like, who's got the out of band because I don't have mine. And we are

Scott Benner 7:30
that's just how we are. Finally this anxiety came through for your son and it got he was like, No, I'm I know something's wrong. Like it's almost like when people think someone's following them and then eventually they are you like Okay, your paranoia finally paid off. How long did that go on for were you just like Nah man, you're fine. If you take insulin or sulfonylureas you are at risk for your blood sugar going too low. You need a safety net when it matters most. Be ready with G voc hype open mind daughter carries G voc hypo pen everywhere she goes, because it's a ready to use rescue pen for treating very low blood sugar and people with diabetes ages two and above that I trust. Low blood sugar emergencies can happen unexpectedly and they demand quick action. Luckily, G vo Capo pen can be administered in two simple steps even by yourself in certain situations. Show those around you where you store G vo Capo pen and how to use it. They need to know how to use G Bo Capo pen before an emergency situation happens. Learn more about why G vo Kibo pen is in Ardens diabetes toolkit at G voc glucagon.com/juicebox. G voc shouldn't be used if you have a tumor in the gland on the top of your kidneys called a pheochromocytoma. Or if you have a tumor in your pancreas called an insulinoma. Visit je voc glucagon.com/risk For safety information.

Melissa 9:01
Oh just it was probably only like a week or 10 days. Like it wasn't as epically long amount of time. But he would wake up and say I peed the bed. And I would go into the bedroom. And I'm like your bed just isn't wet. So what I think is happening is like you're starting to pee a little bit and you're waking yourself up and you're going to the bathroom. And I think you're probably sleeping through it because you're going through a growth spurt. And you just It's fine. It's probably normal because you're not like wetting the bed. And he would get in the car and he's like, Well, I need to know how long this is going to take because I'm gonna have to use the bathroom. And I was like, buddy, this anxiety like whatever you have, because he hyper focuses on things right? And so you're like, you have now started focusing so much on needing to go to the bathroom that you're willing yourself to need to use the bathroom every 10 minutes.

Scott Benner 9:47
He's like, No, my pancreas isn't working.

Melissa 9:51
Like so there's this other thing and if you would just listen to me.

Scott Benner 9:54
Well also, I've only met like 412 year olds have ever known anything reasonable. So I mean I I Listen, I think you're being hard on yourself saying you guess, let the kid but I get your point. So well,

Melissa 10:04
I also wanted him to know like if there's something wrong, like I needed to do a better job of listening to him, like,

Scott Benner 10:10
you definitely owe them an apology but I don't think you're gaslighting him I think you were just going through, you know normal steps of problem solving and you know, for a busy person and time and you know him and all the other factors, given his anxiety and what you've seen in the past, it doesn't sound like you were just ignoring him. It just sounds like it took a took 10 days to get to it. That's not I'm like, that's bad. You

Melissa 10:36
know, and I mean, thankfully, you know, he got, he had gone to dance, he dances and he had gone to dance. And the dance teacher called me and was like, I think you should come pick him up, doing this weird kind of breathing. And thankfully, I was working from home because I have a salon studio at home as well. So I ran out, I was working, I was able to just leave my client for two seconds, pick him up from dance, put him in the living room, and I'm going to be right back, finished up my client. And I went and we just looked at each other. And he was breathing a little bit. And I just looked at him. And I said, Okay, I need you to go get a bag. We're going to the emergency room. And I looked at my husband and this is the weirdest thing. I looked at him and I said, he has diabetes, and we have to go to the emergency room.

Scott Benner 11:19
How did you know that?

Melissa 11:20
I have no idea.

Scott Benner 11:26
Showing off now, okay, I swear

Melissa 11:28
to God. I said, I don't even know what makes me think this there was a doctor's appointment, like, a couple of years before and I was like he's paying a lot. Could it be diabetes? And they checked the sugar? And they said, No, he's fine. And so I don't even know why it took me so long to get to that. He's been a lot. He has diabetes. But we just looked at each other. And I said, go get in a car. And yeah, he has diabetes. Well,

Scott Benner 11:51
the ping a lot thing. I mean, did your dad did that? Was that a thing that happened to your father was type two? No.

Melissa 11:58
So my dad is, you know, an Irish Catholics stoic kind of man. And I don't know that I would think he lives with me now. So he's been living with me since June. So now I would pick up on different things. But my dad, he would just like I'm fine. Don't worry about it. So I don't even know that I know leading up to it. What made him other than going to a routine appointment, and I'm saying you're a onesies. Hi, about

Scott Benner 12:23
that. Okay. All right. You by the way, the cool small respirations being picked up by a dance teacher. Well done. You

Melissa 12:29
know, whose husband is actually type one. But

Scott Benner 12:33
that's not what she saw. She just saw Hey, the kids breathing weird. I don't want him dying.

Melissa 12:37
Yes, the kids breathing weird. And he's having a hard time catching his breath. He doesn't seem sick. But he's having a hard time catching his breath. I think you should come get him.

Scott Benner 12:45
Wow. Okay, well, so see, you're giving yourself a problem. But you figured it out in 10 days.

Melissa 12:52
His sugar wasn't even he was in DKA, which was terrifying. Because we went to the doctor, we went to the emergency room and the doctor check that sugar and everything started moving really fast. Like everything in the room just started moving really fast. And he came in and he said, we called Boston med flight. And I was like, wait, I can't get on a helicopter what? And they said no, no, no, just the just the ambulance we need to do to get in town. Because he knew he looked at Anthony. He was great with Anthony. And he said, You are very sick. And we can't take care of you're here. But you're going to be okay. And they're going to take care of you in town. And I asked him to step out of the room. And I said I just I don't understand what's happening. Because is he in danger? You said he's very sick. And the doctor said, you know, he's gonna be okay, but you're about two days away from losing him. Wow. And I just will never forget that moment. I thought like, it was like, have you seen the TV like, everything got black around me and everything was shrinking around me. So obviously that was a very life changing day for all of us. And my ex husband made it to the hospital before the ambulance I was gonna go on the ambulance with my ex husband made it and I saw the look on my ex husband's face and I just had to grab him look at him and say Look at me. He's gonna be okay. But there's that moment where we know nothing about diabetes, but we were just hold we could have lost him in two days. Yeah,

Scott Benner 14:14
I remember being told that we did a good job getting to the hospital before Arden was in a coma that didn't feel like I did a good job by the way it felt Yeah, yeah.

Melissa 14:24
And it's like that's a sick to your stomach like the back of my jaw starts watering when I even tell the story like sick to my stomach Bolus.

Scott Benner 14:31
I've never heard anybody say the back of my jaw starts watering Yeah, you get like juicy

Melissa 14:35
jaw. When you start thinking about things that make you feel bad.

Scott Benner 14:39
You gotta be real careful. Your episodes gonna be called juicy jaw say some pretty amazing in the next 45 minutes.

Melissa 14:49
I need to come up with something else that cannot be trusted right now. No person in my family will see that episode. No go that's my lesson. Why'd you stop? I'm getting juicy jobs. I

Scott Benner 15:02
gotta be honest, just let it go. It's gonna be called juicy jobs. So there's this thing in your note that I'm, I'm super interested in talking about. So you said you're a small business owner, you're a hairdresser, right? Yeah, yeah. And you talked here about, like just trying to keep your business going and, and dealing with all this after the diagnosis. And I don't think we talked about that stuff at NAB. So I was wondering if you would walk me through what happened and where the difficulties were being

Melissa 15:28
behind my chair, I've been doing hair for almost 24 years now. And I still have very, very high client retention, like I have my very first client still. And so I live my life, like six weeks at a time, right. So any big, major thing that happens in my life, I have to replay with these people over and over and over again, for up to six weeks, because that's about the lifecycle of somebody's hair, and their appointments. So like I've had major traumas happen in my life, like I had a brother who passed away just over four years ago. And so like the very first person that gets in my car, and I'm like, Oh, my brother passed away. And we have to go through that story every single time. So that happens, and I go back to work after the five days in the hospital, and you're so new with this, thank God for technology. But I have these numbers now coming across my watch, I at the time, really have no idea what they mean, because I found the podcast while we were in the hospital, but I haven't gone far enough in it. And you know, like you say that don't die advice is all that we're going on initially. So you're having doctor's appointment, I specifically went out and bought air pods, because I would pop these air pods in behind my chair, do doctor's appointments, be talking to the school who at the time that school didn't even have a nurse, I had to like go in and show them how to figure out his carb count. And so we would get calls at lunchtime. And all the while you're doing all these things. And you're still trying to provide somebody with like a luxury service, and be able to maintain the integrity of that appointment and the integrity of your business. Thankfully, I own my business with my best friend. So where if I fall down, she's able to pick up and when she something happens with her, I'm able to pick up where she is feeling like she's lacking. So if he was sick, there were days that I had to call out and be like, I just need to be home with him. And thankfully, I do have a Salon Suite at home. So I would have people come to the house as well. But there were there was a day where he was sick, and I could not get his blood sugar down and the hospital was like it's time to come in now. And so you're canceling clients, which I don't do, like I very rarely if do I get sick? Do I need a sick day? Do I take time off last minute. And it's really hard, especially when people are sitting in their chair. And I say this a lot in the Facebook group. People talking about like, oh, this person said, I should take cinnamon and they will be very easily offended by someone. And I know that people you intentioned matter. Right? Right. Like if you're willing to attend. So for six weeks that we're going through Anthony's diagnosis, people would say, Oh, I totally understand. And I would say Oh, you do your tour instead? And they would say, Oh, my cat has diabetes, as well. Yeah. Oh, I don't know that if it's totally the same thing. But they're well intended. Right? So very similar.

Scott Benner 18:24
Did you ever hug your ex at a hospital? Because that's how horrible your life was? Because I hadn't hugged him in a while before that.

Melissa 18:30
And I had to like put my hands on him. So I'm just going to ask them maybe you understand it's not the same thing? Yeah.

Scott Benner 18:36
What's your cat life flighted anywhere by any chance?

Melissa 18:41
And like, I don't know that if something very dramatic happens to your cat that I'm gonna feel the same way as if it happens to my child. Yeah,

Scott Benner 18:47
that's I mean, listen, I I'm all for people loving their pets. But that's a weird, you know, a weird example to give somebody but again, like you're saying, well intended, well

Melissa 18:55
intended. And so when people talk to you, and they say, Oh, that's great. He's on a pump. So you don't have to worry about anything. And I think you can do two things you can get upset about it and be like you don't even understand. Or you can use that as an opportunity to speak back into somebody who maybe needs a shift in their thinking, and he needs more information. And then it's like a spider web and they can go out and be like, Oh, I was wrong in my thinking. My hairdresser. Son has diabetes. And she told me X, Y and Z.

Scott Benner 19:23
Yeah, it's a nice idea just to say, you know, well, actually, it eliminates her having to do injections, but you know, doesn't make the diabetes easier or less dangerous or, you know, impactful. You want to know more? Or is that you know, have I have I bored you enough with the thing you heard that you thought was was the truth, right? Yeah. Can I ask this you just talked about like people's lifecycle of their hair being about six weeks. And you've been doing this for a very long time. But does that feeling ever go away? When when when a client walks out like God I hope they come back if Don't come back, this all falls apart. If this falls apart, I can't pay my bills like that that feeling that small business owners have? Have you lost that?

Melissa 20:06
You definitely know as a small business owner like this is how much we need to pay the bills. But specifically as it pertains to doing hair, there are some people who you're like begging for them not to come back. You're like, listen, we are not a good fit, right? Like if people say, no hairdressers ever been able to get my hair, right, the chances of me doing it right are very slim. Yeah, like, common denominator here is not me, right. And there are some people and you look at it, like every time someone leaves, you get a new person that you might be better situated to work with. But there's definitely that fear, especially with now with post COVID. When we had supply chain issues and inflation, and issues like that, like nemenhah, we need to hold on to every single person, and they need to keep their appointments, and we need to make sure that we can maintain the business. But I think that because we are a small business, and we put family first it's like, listen, we're doing the best we can, and we put the good energy out into the world. And hopefully, we just can make enough to maintain the business and have our income, be what it needs to be. And we just want to do the best we can for our clients. Anything at the end of the day. That's what we're trying to

Scott Benner 21:22
do. Yeah, no, I just I recognized my own life and what you were saying because, you know, aside from making the podcast, and it being this valuable thing for people, so it's obviously something that you want to keep doing, for those of you who aren't lucky enough to be in a position like this, like helping people like actually helping them is, is incredibly fulfilling. And so like, just from that perspective, I don't want this to stop. But I am also like, you know, I'm a I'm a person, I have a family and and I need to I have bills like to pay. And so from a professional point, I don't want this to stop either. And, you know, so while your things he felt like to me like it's on a, like a six week clock, I'm on this crazy clock where January 1 comes, and I am on a med tear to provide good content, stuff that helps people, you know, that keep it entertaining, stay ahead of other content providers, as far as you know, like, you know, new ideas and like, you know, you're constantly you're striving to put out stuff that people want to hear that will actually help them like that's my mix, I want to I want it to be entertaining, and I want to be valuable. Yeah.

Melissa 22:31
And then we do definitely the same thing behind the chair, we want to provide an environment like, we keep it very light at the salon, like it's very fun. It's a fun environment. We're making sure actually my business partner, and I also educate for the color company that we use at the salon. So we try to stay as current as we possibly can we try to give these clients really an experience that they know that they're valued, but we also value their time. So we can get them in and out as fast as possible. Some people want to stay with us all day. And that's great. That's the best. But it's also trying to find that balance. Like there was a time when it was like no, no, no, my clients versus my clients first. And I've definitely had to shift yours. Because my clients were providing my income. And I've had to shift gears and say, I need to put my family first. And hopefully I can strike that balance that I really need. And it's it's hard. And I think you know, when you and I were speaking earlier, it is hard, because you pour so much of yourself into it, that if something doesn't work out, it's hard not to take it so personally, and take it personally from the business perspective as well. Yeah. And then you know, right after diagnosis, my poor clients are sitting there and I'm trying to provide them and I love what I do. I really love what I do. And there's a alarm going off and one of the girls in the salon is like is the higher low and we're running to bind my phone to figure out what's going on just those are just not how it's supposed to go. But it's just the way it's gonna go

Scott Benner 23:53
right and so you're trying to provide this episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the only CGM you can take off to get into the shower. The ever since CGM ever since cgm.com/juice. Box. Well, I mean, sure, you could take the other ones off, but then you'd waste the sensor and have to start over again. But not with ever since ever since is a six month where implantable CGM. So if you want to take a shower without anything hanging on, you pop off the transmitter jump in the shower, when you get back out, put it back on, and you're right back to where you started. Come to think of it. You could do that whenever you wanted to. Maybe it was your prom night or your wedding day. Maybe you just don't want the thing on for a little while. But you don't want to go all through the hassle of taking it off and having to restart it and you know, starting back over with like wonky numbers and having you know all that that goes with it when you take off the CGM and put it back on Oh, but you don't have to do that with the Eversense CGM. Because ever since is the only long term CGM with six months of real time glucose readings. This gives you more More confidence, more convenience and flexibility. The Eversense CGM is there for you, when you want discretion, a break, or maybe just a little adult time, ever since cgm.com/juice box, pop that transmitter off, pop it back on, you're right back where you started without any wasted devices, or time. Right now we're going to hear from a member of the Medtronic champion community. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by Medtronic diabetes. And this is Mark.

David 25:31
I use injections for about six months. And then my endocrinologist in the Navy recommended a pump. How long

Scott Benner 25:37
had you been in the Navy? Eight years up to that point? I've interviewed a number of people who have been diagnosed during service and most of the time they're discharged. What happened to you?

David 25:47
I was medically discharged. Yeah, six months after my diagnosis. Was

Scott Benner 25:50
it your goal to stay in the Navy for your whole life? Your career was?

David 25:54
Yeah, yeah. In fact, I think a few months before my diagnosis, my wife and I had that discussion about, you know, staying in for the long term. And, you know, we made the decision, despite all the hardships and time away from home, that was what we loved the

Scott Benner 26:08
most, was the Navy, like a lifetime goal of yours? lifetime goal.

David 26:12
I mean, as my earliest childhood memories, were flying, being a fighter pilot,

Scott Benner 26:17
how did your diagnosis impact your lifelong dream?

David 26:20
It was devastating. Everything I had done in life, everything I'd worked up to up to that point was just taken away in an instant, I was not prepared for that at all. What does your support system look like? friends, your family caregivers, you know, for me to Medtronic, champions, community, you know, all those resources that are out there to help guide the way but then help keep abreast on you know, the new things that are coming down the pike, and to give you hope for eventually, that we can find a cure, you

Scott Benner 26:46
can hear more stories from Medtronic champions, and share your own story at Medtronic diabetes.com/juicebox, and experience and a good haircut and add value so that people come back. My thing is, I'm basically piling up downloads, listens, right? Like, I need a certain amount of listens in a bucket by July, to entice the advertisers to have a conversation in October about coming back for the next year. So the first six months are just like, make a mad dash to make download. And then it turns into a sales thing. And then after the sales thing, then it turns into a negotiation. And then he then they they resign up and then that was the hat the lead, by the way. And while I'm doing that, for the last half of the year, I'm also still providing content and like that that part didn't change. I'm just now I have two jobs. And then finally, I mean, it's November 29. You and I are talking right now. And I'm still waiting on. I'm still waiting on two confirmations for advertisers for next year. And if they like for some reason don't come back. Then the other advertisers will think Well, where did they go? How come they don't want to advertise on that show anymore? And then it starts. Now next year, I'm like, Well, this is it this last year, the podcast, like you have no idea how many times I've thought this is the last year of the podcast, I can't keep this going anymore. That's it. It's not just up to me just making good content is not enough. Like you know, blah, blah, blah. And, and for me, my hairdresser, my clients, their hair stops growing, some of them. So some people just love the podcast, they listen to it constantly, which God bless them. And thank you very much for listening. But some people are just here for management. And then they get their management in order and they go I don't need that podcast anymore. And now I did all that work to find that person. And now they're gone. And so like, the reason I brought all that up is because it's so resonated with me when you said I don't get sick, I don't have time to be sick. I feel the same way. I'm like, I don't know how people who don't work for somebody else. Even like I you know, I've heard people say over the years like I don't get sick days I work for myself is a pretty like surface way of saying it. But the real truth is there's no one else. There's no one else keeping the ship up. Like I do it or it doesn't happen. It's

Melissa 29:06
panic. It's like panic inducing. You know, when it's my my husband, Duggal, I'm taking those day off and I'm like, oh, that must be nice. Let me know how you enjoy your nice day. And if I have a client cancel, I'm like, Oh, well, do I need an only fans now like what am I going to do?

Scott Benner 29:24
How do my feet look?

Melissa 29:27
Really nice feet guy some money off. But it's just like, really hard not to be like self deprecating self loading like you lose a client like everybody hates me. I'm never going to be able to provide for my family. What am I gonna do? It's very hard you're

Scott Benner 29:43
gonna hear eight to 10 episodes. You've already heard them now because the way the recording skill but you'll you've heard eight to 10 episodes of me recording with COVID like like sitting here, like falling apart like sweating with a fever making this pocket you will never know you Have you heard this podcast recorded while I have bronchitis? You've heard this podcast recorded wha? My mom was literally dying. Like you've heard this podcast recorded while I was so worried about my children that I thought I was gonna go crazy while my wife was sick, and I was sick to my stomach, like, you're never going to know that. And these are situations where most people would go, I'm going to take a day off today. Yep. But my point is that we never talked about this so much. And listen, even if you work for somebody else that comes with its own problems. And now you're taking time off on hey, my kids blood sugar, I'm learning about diabetes. I don't know what to do. You hear people say all the time, I had to quit my job when my kid was diagnosed, like, you know, because my, they were gonna fire me because I couldn't come in and I wasn't figuring it out in time, in a weird way or lucky you at least could turn to your person and say, Look, you know me, I'm gonna do a good job cutting your hair, but you gotta give me 10 minutes here, you know, so

Melissa 30:52
Oh, absolutely. And I'll go in the back room, and next color, and there'll be tears coming down my my eyes, tuck them down my face. Because you'll try and hold it together. I mean, I've been doing this so long. I went through my divorce. I went through my brother dying. I went through my grandmother die. And I went through Anthony's diagnosis. And the beauty of this is that in my specific situation, I do like with these people, right? Like, some of these people have been coming to me, literally 24 years. I've seen them grow, marriages, divorces, kids, sickness, happiness I've seen them through. So we are essentially doing life together. And so sometimes it's, you know, it's a particularly hard blood sugar day, and I can't get him off the roller coaster. I will put the phone on speaker and put it on my station. And they're my clients like, Hey, Anthony, you know, and I'm very thankful, very lucky for that in that situation. But even some of my clients who are nurse practitioners will like, you know, most of this would warrant like a leave of absence. That's great. Should I start a like a GoFundMe?

Scott Benner 31:53
I'll go tell the lady that runs the place. See if she's up for for oh, wait a minute. Sorry.

Melissa 31:59
Right. Okay, great. Yeah. So you know, you you are doing life with these people, but also sometimes, like, a self care this particular and everything's hard, right? Like, life is just hard. And I understand that. But this particular disease, for me, as the caretaker is like, the, you know, at the helm of the ship, it requires, okay, what do I needed to do on the back end to stay okay to be able to give him what he needs to be able to give the clients what they need. And for me, it's making sure like, I make it to the gym every single day. Like if I never lose another pound in my whole entire life. That's fine is just for the mental health clarity, diabetes hour. But what can I do to make sure I stay Okay, for my clients, for my kids and my family?

Scott Benner 32:39
Isn't it strange that when you work hard in life, you have these kinds of conversations? And you're just like, oh my god, like, I'm on the edge everyday. Like, I think most people are walking around just holding a murderous rage under the surface. You know what I mean? Like, just like, everything's wrong, like, you know, we always ask people, How are you? How are you? I think we should have a month where everybody answers honestly.

Melissa 32:59
Oh, my God, we were talking about this the other day, it's like, how are you? It's like, I don't Well, which answer is it? You're looking for? You just want me to say okay, because if that's if you want me to say okay, then I'm okay. But I have a whole plethora waiting. If you want me to unload. How

Scott Benner 33:13
are you? You should just change to I hope you're doing well. Because that's what you mean. That's what you mean? Yeah. Hey, I hope you're doing well. Because how are you is either like you said, like, you're gonna I'm gonna lie to you. Or I'm going to tell you a story that's going to, you know, shrink your balls to the size of reasons. And you didn't you just gotta walk around in a scared little huddle. That's a line from Julia Roberts movie. Which one? Notting Hill. Have you ever seen Notting Hill?

Melissa 33:41
I don't. I don't know if that's one I've seen. Alright, so

Scott Benner 33:44
you Grant's flatmate, look at me being British flatmate says something like, I'm going to tell you a story that will shrink your balls to the size of races that's always stuck in my head for like 20 years. I've never said on the podcast where I'm like, finally, get this one out. But you know, like, like, you're either gonna be horrified by my answer, or I'm gonna lie to you, or my life is going great. And somehow those people whose lives are so easy, their lives just become bad in a different way. Well, everybody

Melissa 34:10
has their thing, right? Like everybody, no one's getting out of this life unscathed. Right? And everyone has their thing. And I think when you say like, when someone says, How are you saying, I'm okay, well, for the most part, mostly, you just are okay. Like it might be it might feel terrible, but like you are okay.

Scott Benner 34:25
You really are. I mean, that's the other side of it is that this is like, and I think that's important. That's why I brought it up actually, like you You're, you're digging into my into how I'm thinking about this episode, but you are okay. Like, right, like that is the truth. Like, yeah, that all this stuff is going on. I don't know about my diabetes, and I don't understand this and I can't pay for that and blah, blah, blah, but every day you're up and it's happening. It's not it's not ideal, and it's not certainly how you would choose for it to be. But it also isn't a thing that you should run around. Just going like oh my god, Everything's ruined. You don't I mean, like it's just it's your You hear people say like, this is my new normal. I guess that is the best way to say it. Like, I'm okay. Like, I'm fine. I have cancer. I have a whiteboard in front of me that's just about my family's health. Ask about this for coal. See if this vitamin will help Arden, try this for Kelly, we need to get this test. There has to be a doctor's appointment here. I don't even see that anymore is like upsetting.

Melissa 35:22
It just is what it is 100% it just in my days

Scott Benner 35:24
go by very quickly, Melissa. So that's nice. I'm never bored.

Melissa 35:30
There's never there's no time to be bored.

Scott Benner 35:32
Oh, yeah. I don't understand when people are bored. I don't understand when people watch television. Like how do you do that? That's fantastic. Like I'm making somebody said to me the other day Oh, what was it? Called girlfriend was here for for Thanksgiving. And it was late one night? And she's like, Can we watch a movie? I really want to watch this movie. And she's like, sure she goes, Can we watch American Gangster like, is it Denzel Washington movie with Russell Crowe? And she's like, Yeah, I just saw this documentary about I want to see the movie now. So we put the movie on. And I'm watching my voice a good movie. And about a 45 minutes in your mic. I got damn. And I feel like I've seen this movie before. But I've never seen it. And then I realized, I want to put it on a monitor next to me while I was working on the website for the podcast. I have technically sat through the movie, but I've never sat and watched it. And like that's even how I get my entertainment. Like while I'm doing something else at so that I can make a podcast. And then you know, Melissa and I were talking before the show started. And before we started recording, and I told her, it's like it's such a weird thing to help people to know you're helping so many people, and yet still have to go online and get yelled at sometimes. And you're just like, I'm just trying to help. Like, that's like one of the things you want to tell people like while you're yelling at me, please remember that I don't even watch television with my eyes. Because I'm busy doing this for you. And somebody might hear that and go I'm not asking you to do it. And then fair enough, like but yeah, you know, like, okay, so like I don't, I'm not offended by it. I'm like, whatever, be mad at me. If you want to be mad at me or I don't care. I'm just going to take this thing. I'm going to put it out in the world. You

Melissa 37:12
can do whatever you want with it. Yep. And we're just going to do the best we can. Yeah,

Scott Benner 37:15
and we're all gonna do the best we can. But the truth is, you are I mean, listen, there are some people who are in obviously dire situations, and I'm certainly not lumping them in with everybody else. But for the most part, you are okay. Your life sometimes is just what you decide it is, if that makes sense. You know,

Melissa 37:32
and there are things that like, especially in the situations where we can control even if diabetes like diabetes is one of those things where I'm very type A I like right and wrong. I like here's this is black and white. So diabetes came in and I was like, Well, this is the best because it does not follow a lot of rules all the time. And what you've taught me is, you know what, it doesn't even matter why, like the why just doesn't matter. But we can have a situation come up and it's like, fine, but it's still okay, we can still adjust, we can make adjustments, we can do more insulin, we can treat a low, and it's still gonna be okay, we've been here before. We've seen this before. Obviously, if your kids get sick if they get stomach bugs and things take a turn that different. But for the most part, I've been here before it'll be okay.

Scott Benner 38:17
No, it's such a I mean, it is the thing I probably used to say on the podcast more than I do now. But yeah, sometimes they're your blood sugar is high. Like it would be great to know why. And long term, we do want to figure it out so that you can get ahead of it. But in the moment that people make themselves crazy sometimes trying to figure out what happened instead of trying to fix what happened. That makes sense. No, see, you get kind of Yeah, what does that they call that analysis of paralysis of analysis? Like, is that the same as the saying, I don't know a lot of things. But

Melissa 38:49
no, it's it. Yeah, it is. Because I get it when I go to like look things up. If I'm like, oh, I want to go here and I look it up and like five minutes and like I have no idea what just happened. I gotta shut this computer and move on. To come back. Yes,

Scott Benner 39:00
blood sugar's high. Let's Bolus, you know. Yeah, we'll figure out what happened later. I don't want you to ignore for the rest of your life, that the fat and your meal makes your blood sugar rise 90 minutes after you eat or something like that. But like in that moment, we want to get it down. I saw a person doing it online last night. Kids blood sugar's like, in the four hundreds, something obviously went wrong. I've changed the pump, and I Bolus again. And I'm like, okay, but it's not moving. So I said maybe you should inject some insulin. But I already Bolus to the pump. I was like, Yeah, but the blood sugar is 400. Like, right? Is there not a small amount of insulin you could use here just to test the idea of it. Maybe there's something wrong with your pump site, or, you know, Baba blah, whatever. And you could just see the person frozen. Even in writing that I don't know what to do now. And they sat and watched that blood sugar for hours. And

Melissa 39:51
it's funny that you should bring that up. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you. Go go please. So you know, as I was saying about how we co parents, so Anthony He was with his dad last night. And it's hard because, again, intention matters my ex husband, there's no question about how much he cares about his children because well intended. But it's hard. You have to learn to kind of sit back and be like, okay, he has the same information that I have. And I've tried to tell him like, listen, of this mark, if we have pizza, here's where everything's going to start to get a little wonky. And we might have to hit it a little bit harder. And on those nights, where it's like, oh, he just had pizza, and you're watching from a different house, but you kind of can't say anything, because you've already said it. And he has to parent also and figure out how to navigate diabetes also on his home, and he has access to the same information that I have access to, it's a hard thing to watch, because, you know, he's frustrated, or Anthony is going to be frustrated that these things are happening. It's like, I think we already talked about this. And it's hard to co parent through those situations, like you're saying you're online. And you're like, Well, what about this? And you saw them freeze?

Scott Benner 40:59
Yeah, no, it's fascinating. I've done a number of interviews about this, I don't know that I've ever come to a helpful conclusion, the idea of the dissolution of a relationship, a marriage, that then has to come back together again, and then be decision makers together when like, let's be honest, like one of the main reasons why people do break up in a relationship is because they can't come to an agreement on anything. So now now you make it like, my wife and I are still married. And we had trouble agreeing about how to manage diabetes. When Arden was first diagnosed. I don't know what you're supposed to do. When you're watching that CGM. And somebody's somewhere else, and you think I know what to do. I know what I know it will help here. But that is not a person I can communicate that to. And at the same time, if I don't get my kids in this situation, is a must. It's like, feels like a probably an ultimate rock and a hard place.

Melissa 41:54
Oh, yeah. I mean, because if I speak to my husband, and he's somewhere with Anthony, and he doesn't do something, I will literally call him and be like, Are you new? Are you a tourist? What are you doing that you're not addressing? What's happening right now? And I can't call my ex husband and be like, Hi, what are we doing? And I can say the things to my husband that can't say it to my ex husband. Like, peace around the house?

Scott Benner 42:28
Are you know what's going on?

Melissa 42:31
Is this your first day? Do we not talk about diabetes all day every day? I mean, we don't you know, but ham, I'll be like, Oh, I tried to my husband. I've tried this, you know, new bowls and strategy. And so him and I are always talking back and forth. And my ex husband is very smart man. But he's somebody who here's a piece of information. And the first piece of information is the information we take on. So learning new information is harder, because he heard something in especially when we heard it from the hospital. So when we heard from the hospital, 15 carbs, 15 minutes. That's it. That's the piece he's holding on to rest of our life. We're doing that. Yeah, that's what we're doing. And so if I see an ad, blood sugar, and at home, I would be like everybody hold I don't know if it's fine. My ex husband's like 15 cards, 15 minutes. And then we're staring at 200 I'm shooting

Scott Benner 43:20
for ad like I don't know what everyone else is talking about. But again, you've just completely blown up my brain because now I realized that my wife is looking at me thinking, oh my god, you freaking idiot. But she's not saying it out loud. Because we're still together. Is that actually what's happening? Now,

Melissa 43:37
not for me, I tell my husband, he's a freaking idiot. Oh, like, I have an easy time doing that with him. Because also, my husband is like, my best friend. Right? So he's a safe place for me so I can unload on him and he can be like, I love you so much. He'll look at me and say I love you so much. Like I totally didn't deserve that. But okay, but he's like a safe place for me to like, you know,

Scott Benner 43:58
there's the thing that nobody tells you when you're getting married.

Melissa 44:02
That poor guy when we go into like, know how to go to the doctor and I'm like, Are you safe at home? I'm like prime and I'm fine. I would check on Billy but I'm fine.

Scott Benner 44:09
He's probably not safe and I'm doing great check on him. That poor guys hold on by a thread I am. Yeah. But it's okay. He loves me.

Melissa 44:23
Yeah, he just was like having anxiety and he's like, yeah, here come Lay it on me.

Scott Benner 44:28
No, I think people end up doing that for each other but there's lovely but yeah, that that bit about working in a you know, an annex situation. I don't know like there there have been some people who have come on who have swallowed like really hard and let it all go. And they actually describe that their life is better that they're not mad with their ex anymore, but they had to stop being mad to help the kid. But it don't you know what I mean? It almost help them. But that's the thing that if both people aren't on board, it's hard. Then you know one person is the punching bag and one person's the hand If only one person decides, I'm just gonna let this all go, but somebody has to write. Yeah,

Melissa 45:05
and I mean, I'm a child of divorce. So there are things that I was like unwilling to repeat with my children. But like, we will do birthday parties together, you will see pictures of just me and my ex husband and my kids, and he will see pictures of all six of us. Because I don't have that from growing up. And there are things that I just think make kids feel so much more secure. And so there is some things that like, I might swallow something, and I'm sure my husband has to do things that he doesn't love doing as it pertains to me or my ideas about something. But I do think, especially when it pertains to diabetes, there's always the helm of the ship. And there's always going to be one person at the forefront of somebody's care whether you're caring for an elderly person, whether you're caring for a sibling, there's always somebody that's, you know, doing just a little bit more research or whatever. So I am able to talk to him and say, you know, suggested the podcast hated this podcast episode, or I found this article, or, Hey, I tried this dosing strategy. And at least I know, I've said it, whether he is like, I don't want to talk to her today and doesn't take it in, at least I know, I said it, and a lot of most of the times he's available to hear it. And without any ego,

Scott Benner 46:14
being solid is such a big part of being a good parent. And, like just being solid and stable, and somebody that you can count on, to do the thing, that, you know, whatever the thing is, like, when your kids know, you're there, I think that's so big, that, you know, when they Yeah, when something happens, and they're like, That lady is going to take care of this, I know she will, like like, I just, I don't have to worry about that they handle that. I don't mean like, I don't mean you running around cleaning up after them or something like that, I mean, the big stuff, like, you know, like, sideways, I'm going to look up and you know, who's gonna be there, Mom's gonna be there. And, like, I know, that's gonna happen, I think that it creates a comfort in a human being while they're growing and maturing. That is, it's irreplaceable, as as, as a valuable ingredient in their life. So even just you reaching out to an axe and saying, Look, this is the thing you should know, maybe you're not going to respond to me or whatever, I don't care, I'm still doing the right thing in this situation. And the right thing is to give you this piece of information, like that's a really big deal, and very mature view.

Melissa 47:21
And I think it matters so much for them, for the kids, because then they also will not be as afraid to have certain communications and certain conversations, if they know that both parents are on the same page. You're

Scott Benner 47:35
also not I want to be clear, I'm not getting the vibe from you that your ex is some bad guy or anything like that. Like I don't get that at all.

Melissa 47:42
I mean, obviously, he's my ex for a reason, his ex for a reason. I don't think that both of us, you know, I don't think either one of us have a lot of bad things to say about each other. But I don't think that both of us know that the path that we're on now is better than probably it would have been if we stayed. So I don't I think that he's very happy in his marriage. I'm very happy in my marriage. And I think we're doing the best we can for our kids. I mean, I'm giving them just enough trauma to like keep them funny.

Scott Benner 48:13
Just enough Boston to make them decent people.

Melissa 48:19
So yeah, I think that we you know, we're definitely exes for a reason. But I, you know, one of the things that I would never question how much he cares about his children, things like that.

Scott Benner 48:29
No, it all sounds very, very good to me. Hey, just real quickly, I love that the Patriots suck. I just want to say that I don't

care if you like football or not, I just want to say out loud that I'm thrilled that they suck this season.

Melissa 48:49
Can I just tell you that when I was growing up, it was a terrible era for the Patriots. And I remember my dad, I think we're I think the total was like seven windshields because he would be driving and he would just like pop the windshield when they were screwing up, like spider cracks across the windshield. There was one time we were sitting in the living room, watching the Patriots and he was so mad. He ran up, pulled the cable box out of the wall sent it sailing to the living room outer closed window. So like How was your anger management as it pertains to the Patriots. I remember exactly where I was in 2001 when they I think I believe was two I think I was 21 when they won their first Super Bowl with Tom Brady. And then this dynasty is so amazing. And now if you I listen to sports radio every morning, if you could hear the way that they're talking, it's like it is unbelievable to hear how heartbroken how mad everybody is. It's like we're just walking around in like mourning because we lost Tom Brady and I don't know we are a disaster right now. Just a disaster.

Scott Benner 49:51
It's an interesting thing how a sports franchise can impact an entire city. It's really fascinating. Like I remember when the Phillies Were in the World Series rollin two years ago when they actually made it to the World Series, but the run up to it, the closer they got to being in the World Series. You could watch crime and Philadelphia fall.

Melissa 50:12
Isn't that crazy?

Scott Benner 50:14
People were just happier. They were happier and less likely to like take that murderous rage that I talked about earlier and go let it out somewhere they were letting it out through happiness through watching baseball on television.

Melissa 50:25
Fantastic. I'm always surprised at how quickly people turn. Oh, yeah, on their team, like, it is wild to me how quickly they turn they want this one fire. That one's gonna go in very quickly if they haven't very quickly.

Scott Benner 50:39
Yeah, that's the really something else. Like I just just wonderful. I don't know, I'm not an aficionado, obviously. Like, I don't know everything about football. But with a little bit of hindsight here, it just seems like it wasn't Bella check. It wasn't the system. It wasn't the Patriots. It was that guy like there was something about.

Melissa 50:58
I mean, I think it's easy to say like the coach is great when your players are great. I think that don't get me wrong. Like I don't want to get lambasted for saying I think Dobell attracts great. But I think the guy, it makes it easy when the guy is really great, too. Right? And

Scott Benner 51:13
a lot of the assistants went other places, and they're not doing well as head coaches either.

Melissa 51:16
Right? Right. And actually, my husband was going to the game this Sunday. And I was I was surprised that we're going to waste money on tickets for him to go this weekend tickets

Scott Benner 51:25
must be $8 at this point. Does anybody even want to go

Melissa 51:28
actually not that expensive? And I was like, Well, I guess if you're gonna if you're gonna go at least you're not going to spend like $15,000 before you've even left the house. Yeah. You know, anyway,

Scott Benner 51:36
my favorite patriots stories, really at the top one is you remember when the owner stopped to get a handy in Florida on his way to the Superbowl. Of all the stories that one's your favorite, absolute favorite. You got on a private jet, flew to Florida or massage parlor to get a hug and then went out the super. Did you just say to get a job? I did. Is that not appropriate? No,

Melissa 52:05
it was terrible.

Scott Benner 52:09
It was my favorite. That's my favorite is my favorite patriots story. Like,

Melissa 52:13
it's just like, could you not have figured out a way to be a little bit more discreet and not end up on the news? Like whatever?

Scott Benner 52:19
Yeah, if you're, if you're taking a jet, somebody's gonna notice I'm pretty sure. Why did he go to Florida but wasn't in Arizona? Like why did you go to Florida before he went out west? Like that's weird.

Melissa 52:31
That has to be a world class tug of war.

Scott Benner 52:34
You know what, Melissa, you're saying the truth here? Because you think that a wealthy man could find that at the Super Bowl? Because I mean, we all know Right? Like prostitutes won the Super Bowl cities the weekend of the Super Bowl. Like it's a major

Melissa 52:48
need. Everybody has to make their money. Right? Yeah, well,

Scott Benner 52:51
you go where the work is, is what I'm saying. But listen, if people stopped coming, your haircuts, you start going to them, I guarantee it.

Melissa 53:01
Like, I mean, like I said, Am I gonna have to start an only family? You know, we got to do what we got to do.

Scott Benner 53:08
Anyway, that was the news story. I'm not making that up. You can go Google it and look at the

Melissa 53:13
legit news story. We all hung our heads and thought you couldn't have figured out how to be more discreet about that. Also, he is married, right? I don't know if at the time if she has because he was married, and then she passed away. And I'm not sure of the timeline on that. And

Scott Benner 53:27
so I'm just trying to say that if I was married to a man that wealthy and even if I didn't want to talk to him anymore, I still think if he was like, hey, you know, I'd be like, All right. I do love my Mercedes. Like, come here.

Melissa 53:44
You know, when people say like, money won't make you happy? Can I try? Like, give it a try? And like, you know,

Scott Benner 53:51
I mean? Did they hate each other? Like were one of those gloves? Would you do the food prep? I don't know what to say I first of all, I've never I want to be honest. I've never done that for another man. So I don't know the implications. But I might be talking out of my trade now. I'm just saying like to be wealthy. I think I could do it is what I'm getting.

Melissa 54:12
I love when people say money won't solve my problems. I'm like, 99% of them.

Scott Benner 54:17
Let's try and see what happens. What is it? Did you know? Yeah, anyway, that took an odd turn. But I don't think really because you're from Boston. And honestly, this is how you want to be talking?

Melissa 54:28
No, not really. But my clients also note that I am like a wide open book. And I think in just in Boston were just built a little differently.

Scott Benner 54:35
No, I think there's a lot of similarities between Boston Philadelphia where I grew up to like, just the very like, I'm watching people, the better the Eagles get right now, the more people around the country are trashing the fans. But I'm here to tell you something. If you lived here, you would love it. You would think it was the it was the greatest thing like just nothing better. My example that would be that when Bryce Harper played baseball In Washington, I was like What an asshole. And like when what's his name went after him and choked him in the dugout. I was so like, oh my god that's hilarious what was like papel bomb? Do you do you know about this? Do you ever seen that video?

Melissa 55:15
It's ringing a bell but I can't say for sure that I know exactly

Scott Benner 55:18
Bryce Harper's a young kind of brash guy, he must have said something that made one of the crazy players out of his mind. The guy came down the steps that dugout leapt at him, put his hands around his neck and jack them up against the back of the dugout. And I was like Harper's getting his Bryce Harper plays in Philly right now. I'd go defend his home for him if he needed me to. It's so much. It's so much fun when they're on your side. Like that's, that was

Melissa 55:42
like deep rivalries, like the deep love that the people have for certain teams like New England. That way they love their patriots. 100% Yeah, they will defend everything for them until they start screwing up. Like you know, people think that our quarterback and doing a great job and now they're ready to like, you know, burn about the steak.

Scott Benner 56:00
In the end, you're you're getting out. I mean, listen life. I keep going back this year to something my son said to me, he's he was on his own for about six months, maybe when he called me one day very, super serious. And he said, I need to ask you a question. What do people do after work? And I found it to be such a sad thing. Because I was like, Oh, he's an adult now. Like, he doesn't have baseball to go to he doesn't have this. Like he's, he's like, he's like, what do people do? And when there's a whole world out there, beating their ass into the ground doing their job. And in you know, that's true, because I make a podcast. And it's incredibly difficult. And I have something to compare it to. I used to work in a sheetmetal shop and not for a day for a long time. I'm telling you, I'm not dirty, and I'm not hot. But this is difficult. And so everyone out there is doing something difficult, right? And they don't have enough money and their kids have diabetes or something else is going on or Jesus like, you know, how about they just got psoriasis all over them that God damn compatriots can't win. You know what I mean? Like, like, Yeah, and like that feeling. Like, everyone's got that going on. And then if you get a good sports team, you're like, there's a release here, at least, you know, like something I can do from the comfort of my home, that doesn't cost me money, I can flip the television on and watch some other people succeed for a while. And then when you get used to it, and then it goes the other way, it probably feels like those people, even though they're not the same players who were winning for you five years, there's a completely different group of people. And when it starts going the wrong way you feel, I guess it comes off, like anger. But I just think it's this, it's a sadness that you don't have that release anymore.

Melissa 57:41
And we just got so used to it. Like, it was just one of those things that you just get used to, and when you can get used to winning in any regard, right, like, and then something happens in your life. We were winners. Like, we just got used to it. Like, of course, we're going to civil Of course, we're going to win a ring. And I think that like you said it was such a relief for people, people were feeling very happy they were getting together and celebrating this thing that wasn't heavy for anybody.

Scott Benner 58:07
No, I listen, if this podcast were ever fall apart, I already know which wall I'm running my head through in this room. So like, Don't worry, like. Because imagine, like, if I lose my job, I don't just lose the job. I lose the way I'm valuable in the world, which I guess also is for most people's jobs. But then I have to make a big shift. And I've been out of like real work, which I'm making with air quotes. But I think I mean, like I've been out of real work for so long. Like, what am I going to go back into the world and go Hi, what do you been doing for the last 10 years? Well, for the last 10 years, I was a podcaster. But before that I wrote a blog. There'll be like, Oh, we can't wait to hire you. Like what am I? Can I just sit in the coffee room and talk people will be so entertained? Yeah, great. That's not a job here. Get the like, like, so. How am I getting another job? I gotta learn to cut somebody's got damn hair. Like, you know,

Melissa 59:00
yeah, but then even like, if I am I gonna go work for somebody at this point in the game? Like, am I gonna go walk into a salon and be like, Oh, sure, you can tell me how to do my job and how to book people. And when I need to be like, No, thanks.

Scott Benner 59:13
Mostly. When I was a kid. I worked in the 711 for a year I've ever talked about in the podcast. I worked at 711 for a year. I don't think I've ever heard you mentioned seven. I don't think I have like Yeah, so the long the short, long story is, I was really young. Oh my god. My kids are gonna listen this when I was really young, and I had a girlfriend who love to have sex. I mean, we've been pretty like clear in this episode. She likes to bang one out in the afternoon before she went to her job, just what she enjoyed doing okay. And so I literally switched my job so that I could be available at 3am

Melissa 59:47
priority. Scott, you had priority. I worked

Scott Benner 59:52
in a king 711 for a year because they had a seven to three shift and I could have six with this lovely girl

Melissa 20:00:00
Every day of 3010 My

Scott Benner 20:00:02
God is the best year of my life. I just want to say that out loud right now for anyone. I mean, if my kids are listening, I apologize to you. You're probably thinking, what about my birth or when I graduated? The year I got to have sex every day at four o'clock in the afternoon was the best year of my life.

Melissa 20:00:18
And didn't have like real people's problems. Oh, my God. I had enough

Scott Benner 20:00:21
money even though I didn't make any money. Yeah, I had all the security in the world about where I was gonna live and what I was going to eat and everything. And every day there was sex. It was like, it was the greatest thing. Anyway, I had to work in this 711 from seven to like, it was a terrible job. Why did I start telling this story?

Melissa 20:00:41
Because I said, I don't ever want to work.

Scott Benner 20:00:43
Good, by the way. Yes, I have I've a relation to that. After I worked at that 711. And our relationship right now, believe it or not, we didn't have a ton in common. And after that relationship, we didn't get out much. So like after we after that relationship ran its course I went did another job for a while it was a seasonal job. And when that fell apart, I tried to go to a different 711 Because I thought, Oh, I'll be able to walk in and grab this job real quick. I know how to do this. And then I'll I'll keep this job while I'm looking for like the next thing I want to do. Except just working at a different 711 was so different that I couldn't do it. It was maddening. Like all the routines were different. And the expectations were different. And you would think it's a seven love and you do it here. You do it there. It was completely different to me. Yeah, then that was my point. I actually ended up adding myself on my story about that, to tell you that I've gone from one place to another you really went like all the way through it. Yeah, it's such a lovely warm remembrance when it came up in my head. She's a lovely girl. I'm sure she would be horrified if she's not gonna say her name, obviously. Yeah, that's what yeah. But I what she was really lovely. And, and I did really enjoy my time with her. And if I'm being clear, I want to say I did love her very much. And I'm sure she didn't like me at all. But that's not the point. So

Melissa 20:02:02
I think she liked you at least a little bit. A little bit. That went on for that long. Yeah.

Scott Benner 20:02:06
Also, I don't enjoy seeing a little bit, let's say, let's say more than an average bit. She liked me. Okay, well, let's but not an amazing bit, just more than

Melissa 20:02:20
anyway, saying she liked you enough probably isn't

Scott Benner 20:02:24
awkward enough that she seemed happy? Yes. Perfect. Yeah, that's all. Okay, we're done. Let's get past this. Is there anything we haven't talked about that we should have? I can't imagine if there was,

Melissa 20:02:34
I think we've covered a lot. I just, yeah, I wanted to make sure to talk about, you know, just, it's, it's a lot. And I think, especially as it pertains to work, it's just, everyone's just doing the best they can. And I'm very thankful for my situation that I'm in because, again, if I worked for somebody else, I don't know how easy it would be like pop earplugs in and, you know, check in on what you're doing on the podcast to see if I'm missing anything or check on Anthony. And I have alarms going off in the background. And I mean, all to say he's doing awesome. And I wouldn't have it any other way. Right? Like he had him and my family and everything needs to come first. And, you know, I'm so thankful for what you do and the value that you bring to my family because it's a one sees great. And now we don't have a lot of panic. When we're doing things. We're like, Oh, we've seen this before. We don't run around with our hair caught on fire. And I'm just super thankful that if he had to get diabetes, we bought it at this point in time.

Scott Benner 20:03:31
I was very nice. I just say about about what I'm doing. And I think it's a great perspective that you have actually but can I ask you what is it? I do? Do I just effortlessly weave good information about diabetes around stories about having sex as a young as a as a 19 year old?

Melissa 20:03:46
You took the words right out of my mouth, because that is the way I would have so eloquently put it.

Scott Benner 20:03:53
Honestly, there's times I'm like, I don't even know what I'm doing. Like why? Listen, this is not me blowing Oh, a horn for myself or anything like that. But I am Ultra aware of the podcasting space, like I pay attention to it in a way that may be unhealthy.

Melissa 20:04:08
So let me tell you, let me tell you what it is because I happened upon your podcast in the hospital on like, day two, I just was sitting there and he was sleeping. And I was like, I don't know anything about diabetes, like I don't even know where to start. And when they came in, and they dosed him with insulin, and they were telling us he was gonna start to give himself injection. And I said, Okay, you know, they give you the hospital menu, and it has all the carb counts and ethics figured out. We have to do the math equation. And they said, they will do this 20 minutes before he eats and I looked at them and I said, I do not understand. Because what if he doesn't eat everything on his plate? Wouldn't it make more sense to dose him after? Now understand where in the children's floor of the hospital, I have endocrine coming in and out. I have all the nutrition coming in and out. Nobody's said to me, it takes about X amount of time. I'm too insulin to come online. So here I am asking it's a very specific question. Why wouldn't it make more sense to do it after what I know what he's eating? And they said, Yeah, you can do that. But you should do it this way. Nobody told me the why. So your podcast so valuable, because you're telling me somebody who's very black and white, very type A, the why. So I can make it make sense in my brain, here's what we need to do, we're eating this food is going to hit like that we need to Pre-Bolus like this. And that is even as I we went to the doctor, you know, we go every three months. And once a year, we do diabetes clinic. And we're in clinic for like three hours. So his last appointment was actually November 15. And we went in and the nurse practitioner, and I like everybody in the practice, I really do. But the nurse practitioner said to me, Hey, you had diabetes clinic in August? Do you like it? And I'm one of those people that I believe you can say anything to anybody if you're respectful, right? Like if you're not an asshole, you can say whatever you need to say. And he said, I'm gonna be honest with you. I don't appreciate diabetes, Manik and she said, why? And I said, Well, for us specifically, because we always hear you are our star patient, you don't need to worry so much. And I love that they see me that way. But I don't appreciate it. Because I had to go get this information somewhere else. And it doesn't mean that I'm okay with this 250 blood sugar that I'm seeing. And I'm trying to get ratios, right. And if they say to me, you're a start patient, don't worry about it so much. That's neither here nor there. To me, that makes me feel sad for other patients, that they don't have the information or the education or whatever. So I said to her don't appreciate diabetes clinic because nutrition comes in. And they say to me, you know, whatever. They're saying to me about food. And if I ask them a specific insulin dosing strategy for a specific food, and they look at me and say, I don't know, you've wasted my time. I don't like if I have a specific question that you consistently cannot answer. I don't want us to sit here for three hours. Psychology comes in, I think psychology is super important. We saw somebody right after diagnosis, that was not a good fit for him. And we said, this woman is not a good fit for him. She was perfectly lovely. She just wasn't a good fit for Anthony. They and the practice that Nope, we think that they are the best fit. So why do I have to do this thing, if you're gonna make me do it when you won't meet my needs. So what you were able to do is give me number one, the information that I was searching for, that nobody else seems to be able to give me. Because this is not my body, right? So I can't go experimenting with insulin, because it's not my body, I need to be respectful of him, I don't know what's going to happen. He's not always with me. So you were able to give me the confidence to be able to do the things that I need to do to keep them healthy, I need to be able to set him up. So that when he is a grown up and says me, I don't want to borrow my numbers, or I'm not with him all the time, that he has the confidence to move forward. And that is something that we weren't ever going to be able to get just from the practice, I understand I could hire a CDE I could hire someone like Jenny, who I am obsessed with. I love her so much. But that's what you do. That's what you're able to do for people and it is invaluable. I

Scott Benner 20:08:02
appreciate you. Honestly, I honestly appreciate you sharing that with me, because I know I've said it before, but I'm almost the last person who understands exactly what is happening. Like, I'm just being myself and I have this information. And do you really mean like somebody didn't sit down and say do this, then say this and be like that, and then this lady will have that experience? I'm just doing the thing, and it happened to work out? I mean, it genuinely. And what I was gonna say earlier was that when you look at what is popular in podcasting, especially around health, when you look at what's popular in podcasting, around health, what you see mostly is like the bro science stuff, you know, like stuff that may help but like, who really knows if it's, you know, does getting in a freezing cold bathtub, make your life better? Like I don't know, but it's a very popular thing to talk about right now. And if you talk about that, on your podcast, you will have a popular podcast, if you you know, double down on like ketogenic diets, you'll have a popular podcast, if you take a position on a certain, you know, like thing you'll have, you'll have a popular podcast, but the idea of talking about diabetes, there are other people doing it. And not just podcasting, but also blogs, Instagram influencers, tick tock, there's like all these, like, every, let's be honest, people are trying to be internet famous with the thing they have, right. And there are some there are also people trying to help like I'm not discounting that. But there's a lot of people out there trying to make a living off of whatever this is. And it doesn't work. Only for this show. That's the only one who like I'm consistently in the top 20 in the Apple podcast medicine chart for like four and a half or five years now. I know you're not a podcaster but that's insane. Like it's absolutely insane. It's a niche idea. That's like when I pull up the top 10 You know, right, I'm looking at the top 10 Right now if I said Peter, a TIA to you. Do you know who that is? No, no, because you care about diabetes, but trust me, right. A lot of people were into podcasts we go, I know Peter to you. If I said Dr. Mike Heyman, you'd go, I know Dr. Mark Heyman. Does anyone know Rhonda Patrick? People love her. How do they know her? She had this podcast. She went on Joe Rogan's podcast, he made her super huge. She has been in the top five in my category for years since she was on Rogan. Like, there are millions of people listening to these podcasts. Paul Saladino, doubles down on I think carnivore diet, he stays in the top 10 doing that RFK does the the way he's coming. What's his perspective about like, you know, questioning vaccines, he stays in that high space all the time. That's the kind of like hot button stuff you have to do to have a top 10 podcast, unless you're me talking about type one diabetes. And when you work at 711. For some reason that mix works, like like the ADEA has a podcast. It does not do well. I would guarantee I mean, listen, I've never heard it, I genuinely I want to I have my right hand raised like I'm in court. I've never heard the ADA is podcast, okay. But I bet you it's got good information in it. But nobody listens to it. I think one of the biggest mistakes people make in the diabetes space, is they just sit back and go, we're delivering good information. People should get it, they'll come get it. That's not how it works.

Melissa 20:11:28
I also think for us specifically, how you structure the podcast, you know, you have the Pro Tip series, and then you have all the other specific Informational Series. But the conversations one of the things I think that is really lacking in type one diabetes is community. And the Facebook page is the best. But in real life, you don't have this community. So like, my family will say to me, how is Anthony? And it depends on the day, some days, I want to be like his Basal rates were off and this and that, and this and that. And all they wanted to hear was good. Yeah. You know, like, they don't, of course, don't want anything wrong with him. But they're not looking for me to because it's not something that they've had to know about. You don't know about diabetes. And so you have to know about diabetes. So when these conversations in this space, I may not be able to talk back. I mean, I do in my car, especially like when I'm hearing I'm like, oh, yeah, totally no, we talk about it provides a sense of community that people can listen to people share their stories, and not just online because we all know in a Facebook group, like I posted something recently about cheese sticks, my son fell out of honeymoon in like a moment. And he would eat like three cheese sticks, which were typically like a no insulin snack. And hours later, he would be high. And I couldn't figure out why. And all of a sudden, it hit me like a freight train, like it was the chief stick. He's havin three chiefs at a time. And you know, I posted it on the Facebook page. And if somebody you know, somebody was like, You need to allow him to have cheese sticks. And that's not necessarily the community I'm you know that when you're in this space, you're just looking for someone to share with and understand where you're coming from. And I think it's hard online, but it's something easier about hearing people's voices than hearing them be vulnerable on the podcast and laugh with you. And so you do get that sense of community that we, you know, you you might see like I like when people say like a tea one day in the wild. And I've we might get that but there isn't that big sense of community in day to day normal life. So these conversations are so important, because even if, today we've talked about like a million different things, but if there's one thing that we've talked about, and someone's like I that resonates with me, and that was helpful to me that that sort of makes you feel so much better. Yeah, within your community.

Scott Benner 20:13:42
Listen, I'm gonna give up my secret on this, which I've said on the podcast over and over again, you have to allow people to communicate openly and be themselves and not stifle people because they say something that you're worried someone else is going to be uncomfortable with. And it doesn't hurt that I'm this way on the podcast, and this is how I am and so I'm like that in the Facebook group too. And so people who listen to the podcast and make the the Facebook group are also communicative open people, like honest so that when somebody comes in and tries to shut you down or shame you for saying something that they think, you know, is not politically correct, or whatever I know, by the way, woke means politically correct, right? Isn't it the same thing, and so like, keep changing the words I'm old, I need to be able to keep up. But to give you an A to give you an example. Two days ago in the Facebook group, someone posted a picture of their kid with a deer they just shot like you know when hunters like yeah, kill something and they take a picture with it right? And I'm not a hunter. I've never shot a gun. By the way my wife asked me what I want for Christmas and I was like I might want like range lessons I can maybe I'd like to learn to shoot a gun like in a controlled anyway. I've never shot a gun. I've never held a gun. I've never gone hunting. If you asked me to kill something so that I could eat I probably could do it but I wouldn't do it with a lot of disaster gusto This is my position on this But I don't take down this this person's excited. Like in their world, hunting is a big deal. And they're proud of their kid. And people started reporting that post like not a lot, because I've cultivated a space where everybody's safe, right? But, but I got four or five people reporting the posts. And, and then finally someone posted in there and said, You know, I don't need to see this person like like I don't. And I just I deleted their comment and I sent them a note and I said be nice. This person is very proud of their child, you might not be into hunting, they are, let it go. When one of my moderators asked me, What do you think of the hunting posts? I said, in my mind, that's no different than someone's kid holding a soccer trophy. Like, you know what I mean? Like, they're just like, look, my kid did a thing. Like it's a thing we've been working on for a long time. It's a thing that our family thinks is important, and I'm proud. Do I know there are going to be some people who complain about this? I do. But I don't care. Like, it's not that I don't care that you're upset about it. My My position is, don't look at it.

Melissa 20:16:00
Yeah, you could, you could, and I know, it's like a hard concept. You could just keep scrolling. You could just say, this doesn't interest me, I don't need to look at it. And I can just move about my day.

Scott Benner 20:16:12
Again. Now, I could use more buzzwords like this and have a more popular podcast. But it's virtue signaling, it's you wanting to make sure that the whole world understands that you think this is wrong, and you're on the right side of it. And so like, take it out of the hunting thing for a minute and go into simpler things. That doesn't exist in my space. And if it does, we take care of it immediately. And not privately, you will like I will respond to somebody and say, Look, I don't know what's going on here. But we're not going to talk to people like that, like and we're not going to DM each other and be private about it. You said something crappy, take it back, or live in the honesty of what happened here. Like you're getting called out for this. And it's not mean or cruel. It's actually done very kindly. But it's, it's about like expression and open communication and allowing everybody to be who they are. And at its core saying like, we all have this thing in common, like we're, you know, you there's diabetes in your family. They that's it and I don't care type one, or type two, or lot or doesn't matter to me, like you have diabetes, or you love someone with diabetes, or you're supporting somebody with diabetes, you're welcome in that space. We're not going to be all woke, we're not going to delete things, because we don't like when people say stuff that makes us uncomfortable. Like, we're also not gonna let people make other people uncomfortable on purpose. Like it's an easy balance. If you just apply common sense to it while you're looking at it, instead of being worried all the time that someone's going to cancel you or like you can't get canceled. You live in Iowa. You know what I mean? Like, you're you're just you're okay, you're posting online about something. It's your kids, whatever, like, don't worry, you're not, you're not famous. And by the way, yeah, go ahead. I'm sorry. I

Melissa 20:17:54
also think that diabetes is, is hard. And it's a lot and it's like, even from Anthony's diagnosis story, like, I still get very emotional. And so I also think that were people in your life don't know as much as you do, right? Because, again, you don't know what you don't know. But you get to have people when you're in the Facebook group, most people are well intentioned. And it's like other people rooting for you. They want you to know, if I say, Anthony is anyone see, you know, he was like, almost 14 at diagnosis, or you've been consistently between like, five, eight and six, one, like, my BM is like, that's great, but they don't know. And so it's really other people getting to cheer you on, which is just so valuable, because not that you need validation from other people. But this diabetes, what we know about diabetes is what I forget the statistic, but diabetics have to make, like X amount more decisions a day than everybody else. And it's just somebody else who knows what you're going through and is able to cheer you on in the background. I'll

Scott Benner 20:18:49
tell you what, it's another little thing that I was way out ahead of that I can look back in hindsight and tell you I was 100% correct about that. Because because the like celebrating success. I mean, I've been in this space a long time. So back when I was blogging, it was frowned upon, like it was looked at as rubbing it in people's faces that you're doing better than them. I never once saw somebody rubbing something in someone's face. I'm like, that's not what they're doing. That's how you're choosing to take it. And so when people succeed in my Facebook group, I'm like, tell us, like, you know, you want to put your agency up there your time and range or you want to show us a great Bolus that worked out for you. Like do that because other people either can, you know, it sprouts a conversation where people can learn what you did. Or by the way, I think most importantly, it expresses hope. Like so if you're doing poorly, you can look up and go, there's some lady from Minnesota figured this out by listening to a stupid podcast like maybe I'll go listen to that podcast, maybe all figured out like maybe I'll be hopeful instead of just like, oh gosh, this is never gonna go my way. Don't rub it in. No one's rubbing it in, you know how they feel. They're elated that they Got that something right? And that they might be on to something. And

Melissa 20:20:03
they have to go somewhere where they can be celebrated within their community on top of the fact that I think what you just said is really important. Like, what's that saying? Like there's more than one way to skin a cat. And so when you see the comments, you're like, Well, I've tried this. And I've tried that maybe not everything is for everybody in every situation. So if I see things online, oh, I need to make a mental note of that. So when we do this thing, this person had great success this way. Yeah, I think it's important to have those resources because you can read all the books you want. But when things are happening in real time, I think it's helpful to be part of Yeah,

Scott Benner 20:20:36
and by the way, did you say there's more than one way to skin a cat because we were talking about hunting earlier? Was that attached to that?

Melissa 20:20:42
Well, no, I mean, that fits well.

Scott Benner 20:20:46
You don't know anybody shooting animals in Boston, there shouldn't?

Melissa 20:20:48
Oh, no, I do actually do that. Because this past Saturday, I went to new friend's house. She's a volleyball mom for my daughter's volleyball team. And we went over there to put the gifts for the banquet together, and I opened the door. She's like, Listen, I have a lot of taxidermy on my wall. You freaked out. I'm like, No, it's fine. And she had taxidermy all over the walls that our husband had hunted and killed just

Scott Benner 20:21:10
rats from the city or that he goes into the woods.

Melissa 20:21:14
Matthew, where the Boston rats? No, I think he had like a black bear. I think he had all kinds of stuff. That's

Scott Benner 20:21:21
very, very gunner. No guy that's braver than I did. In the end, the whole thing works. And it works. Because it's authentic. It works. Because I don't sit around worrying. If somebody's going to not like it, like Trust Me, I'm gonna get an email saying, you shouldn't have said you and your girlfriend. She liked to bang one out after he was a freshman in college. But, but like, you don't mean like, I'm gonna get a note that says, you shouldn't have said you and your girlfriend like to bang one out when she was done with school. Like I'm somebody's gonna say that someone's gonna call me a misogynist, trust me, I'm gonna get like you don't love women. Like I'm gonna get all that kind of like, fringe opinion, does that make sense? Like whether it's like, far right or far left, like fringe opinions, like people were like, their virtue signaling, they want to let you know, they know the way the world is supposed to go, and you're doing it wrong. I get notes all the time, that would freak you out. Not one of them stops me from saying, I know that the podcast and the way I make it helps people live better with their diabetes. So I'm gonna keep doing that. Like, that's, that's it. I'm just gonna keep doing that. When COVID started. As an example, when COVID started, there was this new story. I don't remember the details of, but it was out of like Sweden maybe. And I thought it was interesting. And I think I just posted it somewhere. I was like, this is interesting. And, and I don't know anything about it. I just thought maybe people would find interesting, I genuinely don't even remember what it was about. I'm being 100% Honest. Well, like a day later, on some social media platform. This guy's literally trying to cancel me. He's like this podcast, you shouldn't listen to it anymore. This guy's like, I forget what he said I was doing. And I was like, I'm like, Dude, I'm just like, when I looked at it, I thought, I'm just sharing this news article, like, do whatever you want with it. Like, I don't give a crap. But I had gone against his orthodoxy. And because of that, he was now going to try to ruin my life and ruin this podcast. He didn't care how many people the podcast helped. That wasn't important anymore. He was out there trying to show everybody how virtuous he was. And you know what I did? Nothing. I didn't do a goddamn thing. I didn't reach out to him. I didn't try to explain myself. I didn't get upset. I didn't run around wringing my hands going, like, Oh, God, it's over. I just said, this is meaningless. This person's wrong. And I'm not going to engage with them. And it all went away in the day. But it was his intention. You know,

Melissa 20:23:44
it's almost unfathomable to me because it just doesn't match my 16 year old says it's just not that deep. Like she says to me all the time. Just Mama's just not that deep. Like, I can't imagine my world, on any given moment is like a dumpster fire at best. I cannot imagine focusing so much on what someone else does, if they have a different opinion. Or say something I don't like. I can't imagine doing anything other than moving on. Yeah,

Scott Benner 20:24:11
I don't get how everybody wants to have a hot take about things that are so complicated that they don't understand them, and nobody else does. hyzer like that, that's always and if you don't agree with their hot take, then you're a bad person, you're trying to ruin the world, or vice versa. I had somebody reach out to me recently and wanted me to do an episode about the, you know, the current conflict in between Israel. And I guess, am I saying this right. Is it between Israel and Hamas? I'm not even sure yes. I don't understand that. I don't understand it enough to speak well on it. But all I could think was, so you want me to take my diabetes podcast that helps everyone with diabetes and alienate half of the people listening so that they leave and don't get help with their diabetes anymore so that I can share your opinion about what's happening overseas. A place where you're not at and don't know anything about. I'm like, Yeah, we

Melissa 20:25:03
know, immediately can't even consent like, what are people thinking? Like? Does he not want you to be successful? So

Scott Benner 20:25:11
I don't have an opinion about it because I've never been there. I can't live there. I'm not Palestinian, I'm not Israeli. I don't know anybody who is you want me involved in this? I was like, it's a diabetes podcast. Like why in God's name? Would I be involved in this? And so you know, what ended up happening is now that person's mad at me. People are always mad at me, Melissa, I ever saying that I that I share with Isabel all the time. And she's the only person I've ever said this to. So now I'm saying it to everybody. I say don't worry, eventually, in the end, I'll be the bad guy. Everyone's gonna blame me on the last day. It's just the position you're in by doing this thing. And again, I wish that wasn't the case. It breaks my heart when people get mad at something else and decide I'm the one who did it to them. Because I'm a voice in their headphones, then I they I feel famous to them. I'm not famous, like, Do you know what I mean? Like, I'm not important. I don't, I'm no more important than anybody else. But eventually, they'll focus on me and decide that I'm finding the problem. And it doesn't happen a lot. But when it happens, it's I find it tragic, because like, Oh, God, like, Are you this lost, I'm a disembodied voice in your ears. Like, I'm not really a part of your life, you know, like, I'm not impacting you. But some people are, you know, unstable to some degree and are really struggling. And that happens. But again, when that happens, I have a lot of compassion for it. But big picture of the podcast helps a lot of people don't waver I stay course, you know, so and I think

Melissa 20:26:51
that that's super important. And the tragedy is like they're they need, they need more help than what you could even offer

Scott Benner 20:26:57
I've tried, it's a number of times, I've been successful with some people, and but most of the time, it just, I just end up being the bad guy.

Melissa 20:27:06
And eventually, we did all we did cell phones, because you're going to attract the people, like all the other people in the community, from the Facebook group and the podcast, and it's just gonna weed itself out. It's just unfortunate that you're like taking shrapnel dealing with it. If you do

Scott Benner 20:27:21
what I do, and you want to be successful at it and actually help people, then the phrase, I can't help everybody has to be part of how you think about this, like, I'm going to do my best to help everybody, I'm not going to intersect well, with some people, those people are going to go the wrong way. And this is not my failing. And it's certainly not an indication of who they are. It's just we're not a good fit, like you talked about with a therapist or with your ex husband or anything like that. We're just not a good fit together.

Melissa 20:27:48
And we always learned that you cannot be all things to all people. Yeah, no, no, sometimes it just doesn't work out.

Scott Benner 20:27:55
I tried in the beginning, it made me crazy. So like, and by try to I mean, it was my intention. But that's where all the like the strife online comes from the end. By the way, it's where you get milquetoast content from, I'm not going to call anybody out, but from a large portion of this space, is that what you're doing is really well intended, sometimes very well educated people are trying to be liked by everyone. When you make yourself that boring, or milk toast is the right word. I just don't know if people know it. Like when you make yourself that bland so that nobody can have a problem with you, then you are not going to be able to properly deliver content to people in a way that's valuable to them. Like you know, when, you know, when you flip through tick tock or Instagram, and somebody pops up in front of you. And they're like, Hi, I have great advice for how to exercise with diet, like Did they just realize that people can't flick away from that fast and

Melissa 20:28:52
fast and don't screw up my algorithm? I gotta get rid of them. And by

Scott Benner 20:28:56
the way, who knows what they were gonna say next, probably really terrific advice. But you seem like a fake person when you're doing that, you know, like, and you don't just seem fake to, you know, very conservative people you don't just seem can speak to very like liberal people, you don't seem fake, you seem fake to everybody, because you are being fake, because you're not being yourself. You're trying to be palatable to everyone that doesn't work. So

Melissa 20:29:22
and I think that that's a really, you know, important part of the podcast in the conversations that you have with I'm gonna say random because I'm a random person on the Facebook portal. It's like a random person like me is that everybody's been there. You're giving them space to be their authentic self, so that they maybe have something in common with someone else is going to hear them and think, Oh, I needed that.

Scott Benner 20:29:44
Yeah, we need to hear everybody's perspective. Like everybody's and anyway, you're terrific. We've established I'm fantastic. Obviously. I'm going to I'm calling this episode juicy jaw. I just want to remind everybody it's about the thing, Melissa I said not about the thing I said about 711. Okay, so and

Melissa 20:30:03
I will say now when you get that feeling and something is like either grosses you out like I can't do blood, I can't do this. I don't have any of that. And if you feel the kind of way and you realize that your back molars are starting to water, you're gonna be like, that's juicy, John. That's what that is.

Scott Benner 20:30:17
Thank you so much Bolus, I appreciate it. Thank you, Scott. Oh, my pleasure. Hold on one second, I

want to thank the ever since CGM for sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast and invite you to go to ever said cgm.com/juicebox. To learn more about this terrific device, you can head over now and just absorb everything that the website has to offer. And that way you'll know if ever sense feels right for you. Ever since cgm.com/juicebox. Mark is an incredible example of what so many experience living with diabetes. You show up for yourself and others every day, never letting diabetes to find you. And that is what the Medtronic champion community is all about. Each of us is strong, and together we're even stronger. To hear more stories from the Medtronic champion community where to share your own story. Visit Medtronic diabetes.com/juice box. A huge thank you to one of today's sponsors, GE voc glucagon, find out more about Chivo Capo pen at G voc glucagon.com. Ford slash juicebox. you spell that GVOKEGLUC AG o n.com Ford slash juicebox. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast. The episode you just heard was professionally edited by wrong way recording. Wrong way recording.com