Scott Benner 6/10/24 Scott Benner 6/10/24

#1221 Condo Shopping

Mike from episode 531, After Dark: Diabetes Complications is back to update us on the last three years. He brought a guest.

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Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends and welcome to episode 1221 of the Juicebox Podcast.

In August of 2021, I put up an episode called after dark diabetes complications. It's episode 531. And it's with today's returning guest, Mike, you do not want to miss it. Honestly, go listen to 531 If you haven't heard it, and then come back and check out Mike and his wife Karen in this episode, as we get an update on Mike's life, and how things have been going for the past three years. Please don't forget that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan, or becoming bold with insulin. If you're living with type one diabetes, the afterdark collection from the Juicebox Podcast is the only place to hear the stories that no one else talks about. From drugs to depression, self harm, trauma, addiction, and so much more. Go to juicebox podcast.com up in the menu and click on after dark. There you'll see a full list of all the after dark episodes. If you're looking for community around type one diabetes, check out the Juicebox Podcast private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes. Guys, this episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by touch by type one and they have an absolutely free conference coming up in Orlando, Florida very, very soon that I will be speaking at touched by type ones free conferences on September 14th. It's an absolutely free all day event. I will be there speaking and registration is open now. Absolutely free registration. Don't forget touched by type one.org Go to the Programs tab. I'll see you in Orlando. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the ever since CGM. Ever since it's gonna let you break away from some of the CGM norms you may be accustomed to no more weekly or bi weekly hassles of sensor changes. Never again, will you be able to accidentally bump your sensor off. You won't have to carry around CGM supplies and worrying about your adhesive lasting. Well that's the thing of the past. Ever since cgm.com/juicebox. US med is sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast and we've been getting our diabetes supplies from us med for years. You can as well. Us med.com/juice box or call 888-721-1514 Use the link or the number get your free benefits. Check it get started today with us med.

Mike Green 2:54
My name is Mike Green. Live in San Diego. And this is Karen my trophy wife.

Scott Benner 3:00
Karen, how are you? Nice to meet you.

Karen 3:02
I'm good. Nice to meet you.

Scott Benner 3:03
Although Haven't we spoken once on the phone maybe while you guys were in the car one time maybe or something like that. If I'm maybe I'm remembering it wrong. I talked to a lot of people probably Yeah. Mike is a past guest he was on episode 531. It was an after dark called. No wait. That's not right. It's episode 151. Is that right Mike? No.

Mike Green 3:26
Was the complicate after that complication for

Scott Benner 3:28
dark complications. Okay, I'm sorry, I'm looking at I also have another episode called complications or complicated. Who named that one a genius.

Mike Green 3:37
I did a nether on how we eat episode. Theta of which I am. Well, we'll get into it. But I am not as keto as I have been in the past for reasons that will unfold here. Okay.

Scott Benner 3:50
So you were in 531, after dark diabetes complications and how we eat keto, which is 496. Sounds about right. All right. Cool. You're back. Now, listen, I don't have a lot of return guests. But I like Mike a lot. And beyond that his story resonated throughout the podcast, a lot of people became very interested in what you shared. And I think if I'm being honest, I think you're maybe the first time that I really just let people talk about complications. And just let like you just unfolded us a lifetime story of how you got where you were and what was happening with you. And I think it was a growth moment for the podcast, too. You know, not that I was hiding things from people before that, but I just never really found the right person to dig into it. And you certainly were the right person at the right time. So I'm always very appreciative of that. Thank you, Miriam. Tell me why you wanted to come back on because you you approached me

Mike Green 4:50
well, in the complications episode. At that point, we were working at going out on disability Basically just, you know, I was diagnosed in 1976. Back then there was no, no good answers, no meters, no nothing basically given a 30 year lifespan, as a kid told by a doctor, and, you know, everything caught up to me but getting ready to go out and disability because things aren't working like they should, I can't do what I did. The preparation for going out on disability COVID hit, kind of not working, get ready to go out on disability. We thought it was going to be three or four year battle, you know, bunch of denials and having to really fight for us getting the spit ball lawyer at the end to try to help us through it. And Karen had always said, Okay, you need to prepare yourself mentally for this as well. And

Scott Benner 5:53
he did not he did not prepare himself. Well, Mike,

Mike Green 5:56
I did not know I we we did all the proper work. Got the right doctors got the right paperwork. And it went through quick like just six months and then it went too quick.

Scott Benner 6:08
You see you went from like, Let's remind people a little bit about like, what kind of work you did.

Mike Green 6:13
Oh, I was I was a piano and instrument repair technician for the school district at the time. So it's pretty physical tune pianos is physical, your shoulders, your arms, your hands repairing instruments. You got bent trumpets, flutes. It's it was really physical. Yeah, the neuropathy in my hands. I basically can't open a Gatorade bottle anymore. I can do like Costco water bottles.

Scott Benner 6:42
So for people who didn't hear you the first time you had but I guess what they like colloquially colloquially call trigger finger but it's do pinchers. Is that right?

Mike Green 6:51
SuperTrend? contractures. Yeah, I had a bunch of those surgeries, especially on my right hand. Yeah. My left hand the doctor submiss in both my pinkies at the first little nub. He did a surgery, bad surgery, which made me have to amputate my left finger. My right finger it had so my right pinky had had so many duper chin, contracture removals that the blood flow was compromised on the outside of my finger. And basically the neck surgery was it wasn't going to live so I had to have it. It amputated as well.

Scott Benner 7:33
Yeah. So for people who can't see you like I can both of your hands at the first knuckle on your pinky from the first knuckle up. Gone.

Mike Green 7:40
Yep. Yeah, double knob double, not.

Scott Benner 7:45
least you have a good except a good sense of humor about it. But so this work becomes more and more difficult. You have other other complications that you're, you know, before you found the podcast, your eyesight was a problem. I'll let you talk about how that's going now later. But the other thing that I really one of the key takeaways for me is you have to understand I talked to a lot of people like every day, but the way you explain to me that brain fog was one of your complications from diabetes. Like I remember that striking me so solidly. I've never forgotten like that one. Like I swear to you right now, if you would have like, held your hands up, I would have thought Oh, that's right. Mike doesn't have his pinkies. But I think that didn't stick with me it was the brain fog thing that stuck with me the most. And how much did that impact your ability to work?

Mike Green 8:33
It affects it is, you know, try to remember things to do in tasks and keep it on focus. I mean, I, I listened back to my complications episode recently to kind of refresh my memory. And I was so brain foggy that day, I was answering questions you weren't even asking. Anyway. Yeah, it was just you. You have this inability to, I don't know, how would you explain it?

Karen 9:00
Just completing a task from A to B, A, you get to a and then forget what B is?

Mike Green 9:07
Yeah, I walked in the house to he was literally

Karen 9:11
to go to the bathroom. And he'll walk into the house and stand in the kitchen with kind of a blank look. And I'll say, did you have to pee? Oh, yeah.

Scott Benner 9:19
No kidding. Mike, how old are you?

Mike Green 9:22
I am 58 757. This joy.

Scott Benner 9:27
How old were you when you're diagnosed?

Mike Green 9:28
I was around eight or nine. Oh, 7619 76. Yeah, I finally went back and figured out the exact it was 76. Okay, so I was misdiagnosed right around age 10. Yeah, misdiagnosed with an ulcer from the stomach cramps from a GP for about a year. And then finally properly diagnosed as I was almost done, you know? Yeah. Just emaciated. And the likes. Karen,

Scott Benner 9:58
how long have you guys been together?

Karen 9:59
It will be well married 19 years and one week from today. Oh,

Scott Benner 10:06
congratulations.

Karen 10:06
Are you guys similarly aged? I'm younger, by 12 years.

Scott Benner 10:10
Oh, good job like.

Mike Green 10:12
That's why she's a trophy wife.

Scott Benner 10:14
How'd you do that? Might you trick her?

Karen 10:16
We kind of joke because I actually had a medical condition going on at the time. I literally had a hole in my skull that we didn't know about. So we joke that he tricked me because I had a hole in my head.

Scott Benner 10:27
You weren't able to keep up with the flash of Mike. I see which,

Karen 10:31
by the time I got fixed, we were already married. So I don't want

Scott Benner 10:36
to go too far down this road. But you had a hole a hole in your skull. I

Karen 10:39
did. I did. I had something called a cholesteatoma. It's usually grows on the eardrum, and I actually had one in my ear canal. It's not like a cancer or anything. It's just a growth that's very destructive. And I've had eaten up the bone from the top of my ear canal up to my brain, does that repair itself? Or what did they do for that? No, you do a surgery, you get like a plate. I do. Now, the first surgery, took out the cyst itself and put everything back together. But it did get infected. And so they had to do a second surgery to take out the bone that they had put back in because it didn't have a blood flow. And there were some there were some metal plates and screws in there that didn't have blood flow. So the infection kept going. So then they had to do a second surgery to take all of that back out. And I was on IV antibiotics for a while I bet three months. Yeah. And then they did a third surgery. I do have now have a plastic plate and my son's

Scott Benner 11:39
gonna say to they use like acrylic now or some sort of like medical grade plastic methyl in the factory late I believe is what it was methyl methacrylate. Yeah, I don't I don't know what that plastic that rolled right off your tongue. That was fantastic. I feel like you've been in a lot of doctors offices while they said that to you. And you're okay. Oh, good. Yeah. That's crazy. That really is crazy. That's why That's amazing. Mike took advantage of your medical situation he lured you in, you guys have been together for like 19 years now. Married you together longer than that. But like for your company here? Just about a year. Yeah,

Karen 12:13
we dated for what, like eight months, I think before we got engaged and got married about six months later, so I had to work

Scott Benner 12:19
quick. Yeah. Okay. Right. Before she figured it out, Mike. Thank you get this all taken care of before she I don't know, opens her eyes or something. So I take that I've, I've, there's a woman that somewhere in this house that I tricked. So it's too late. Now, you know what I mean? What's she going to do? So going back to what you started in the beginning. I wanted to give people a little background about where you are, but you're getting ready to go on disability, I'm assuming in your mind said okay, I'm not going to work anymore. I know now incapable of it. But I'm worried about the timing, but then bang, it just happens very quickly for you. Yeah,

Mike Green 12:55
like I said, we figured it was gonna be about a three year battle of denials, denials, denials, and going back and forth so it didn't go through in but it it went through quick. We we assumed it was going to take a long time. So I never mentally prepared and we go out on disability.

Scott Benner 13:18
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Karen 16:00
So I had said to Mike, as we went into this process, I said, you know, we know this is going to be stressful. We're going to have to go without paychecks, stuff like that. Money is going to be come tighter. It's gonna be stressful. So I said, you know, let's let's try and keep that in mind and try and stay positive about it for the process itself.

Scott Benner 16:20
Karen, I know why we're together today. So I don't feel weird asking you this. Why did you feel like you had to tell him like that? Because

Karen 16:27
I know that he internalizes a lot, you know, and if he doesn't, if he doesn't prepare for it, if he doesn't express it, if he doesn't talk about it, as it's happening, it can get on top of them pile

Scott Benner 16:42
up on him. Yeah, yeah. And so you guys are raring for this fight of we're not gonna be able to pay for things. So you're not really thinking this is going to happen, but instead it happens quickly. And then Mike, you're very quickly met with the stark reality that you are not a working member of society anymore. And that your health caused you to have to stop working. Is that about right? Yeah, that

Mike Green 17:03
is correct. And I, I was the guy. I mean, there was nothing I couldn't do. I mean, I you know, fix things I build things built a house did was heavy in the off roading and, you know, activities that when you rolled your Jeep or went off a cliff, I was the guy that winch you up or fixed your rig, or I was that guy.

Scott Benner 17:28
And now you can't open a Gatorade bottle. Yeah, yes.

Mike Green 17:31
So going out on disability and then trying to live life and be, you know, figure out who I am. I hadn't really. It hadn't reared its ugly head yet.

Karen 17:44
So, and I hadn't tried to encourage him to to consider what life was going to be like when it was approved. Yeah, because that was really the only end result was we would get it approved. That was kind of the only option. Right? Right. And it just happened. You know, when it was approved. I took that as a great thing. Like, holy crap, we did it. We did it right. We did all our work. We got all our ducks in a row. We did everything we needed to so that it kind of flew through. And I think he took it as a kick to the balls that like I am so bad off that this notoriously difficult process.

Scott Benner 18:19
Yeah, they were like, oh, no, this guy right through. Let's go get a stamp. Oh, Jesus, what did you just see his finger like that? Yeah, like and so you feel like you feel more broken than broken at that point. I

Mike Green 18:33
want to say I didn't feel that broken at that time. But I knew I had restrictions. I knew I couldn't do things.

Karen 18:40
I think looking back, like the hindsight of it, is it kind of triggered like a, like a low grade depression. You know, he was still basically functional throughout the day. But I could tell like, he wasn't really as happy and like, you shouldn't necessarily be happy that you're now on disability. But you know, this big stressful thing was now over. I was relieved. And I could tell he wasn't exactly relieved by

Scott Benner 19:08
it. Right? So you were worried about the money part that didn't become an issue. So you're like, Oh, this is great. But he feels depressed. Because now all this reality has fallen on top of him for whatever.

Karen 19:18
It's reality. Yeah, it's on paper. Now. It's

Scott Benner 19:23
it's a new chapter. Yeah, you're not going to work and struggling anymore. You were told, like don't come back here because you can't handle this even if you just yourself telling you that. And then does the depression build on itself?

Mike Green 19:36
Yeah, it built slowly. Okay, you know, so my disability basically just pays for the mortgage, but I like to travel. I like to do things you know, go out but that costs money, so I can bring food home to us. So I ended up door dashing to try to make some spare cash. I can bring tacos and hamburgers to people. So I'm doing that, you know, that made me feel good. I'm productive. Again, I'm not the type that I'm man I need to provide I need to, you know, well,

Karen 20:11
I like Mike

Scott Benner 20:13
Mike's like, I'm not the kind of person who needs to provide because I'm the man and Karen's nodding, like, Yes, he is. So

Mike Green 20:19
you still have that I want to, I want to contribute as much as I can. And I want to, I want to travel, I want to, you know, there's things I want to do still, but obviously, it costs money. So I gotta make money. So I'm doing that. And that made me feel a little better. I'm doing something. I could do it during the daytime. I can't drive at night anymore. I don't. That was helping. And I guess the biggest kick in the balls was, I took us i i I've got a three wheeled motorcycle, I can't do work the clutch anymore with my hand my handle lock up or my it'll dump the clutch. So I got the three of motorcycle that's pretty much automatic.

Karen 20:58
Can I just interject? Okay, please. I bought that motorcycle as like a congratulations on your disability. And the I didn't I financed it. And I didn't want to put him on the application because I didn't know if they would need his Hummer, whatever it was brand new. And I bought that with my perfect credit score. Thank you.

Scott Benner 21:17
So you want to say Karen's your credit scores? Very good. Yes, I

Mike Green 21:21
have a perfect credit score. And sugar mama. Appreciate.

Scott Benner 21:25
But but when you're buying it for him? Do you know he's not going to be able to like operate it? No, no, this is when he can't be on the automatic when he can operate. Okay

Karen 21:33
and operate. And that's and we had talked about getting something like this before I see something that he actually can operate. Yeah, it was. It was like, Okay, this new chapter is starting. We're excited. I'm excited anyway, now we have this fun new toy. And he takes a trip on it. Yeah,

Mike Green 21:51
but what when I was had my piano service, I had Goldwing that was my service vehicle. I drove 150 Miles average day, six days a week. But in 2016, I had to sell it because I couldn't operate the clutch anymore and run trying to hold it up. It was sometimes difficult with my problems, neuropathy and my legs. So this, it's, it's black and go.

Scott Benner 22:15
But like I'm remiss if I don't ask you so soon after you not being able to make money anymore. Karen's like here's a motorcycle I paid for, like, do you think oh, I couldn't have bought this myself at this. Like, do you start because I listen, I used to stay at home dad for a really long time. I didn't have an income. And as much as I genuinely mean that it did not bother me. The one place it would get me is I couldn't. It was terrible to buy my wife a gift with money she made like because if I ended up getting or something she's like, ooh, like that. That's the one you picked or something like that. Then I'm like, oh my god, I wasted her money on something for her. She doesn't want like it's how it felt. That didn't feel

Mike Green 22:55
bad because we really enjoy riding out here in Southern California. The mountains, the hills, so it was something we enjoy together. You guys do it together. That wasn't bad.

Karen 23:03
I mean, we went into it together. I say it's my bike because my name is on it. But it's not mine. It's his he bought it and yeah, we do those things together. Yeah.

Mike Green 23:13
Okay, that's fair. Oh, yeah. So that didn't feel bad what what got me was I have a bought a tent because I want to travel I want to do it as economically as can. So I bought a tent trailer that you tow behind the motorcycle so small, I think oh, you know, this thing gets 40 miles a gallon. I can travel pretty efficiently sleep in a tent. You got to set it up. It's got a nice bed, and I took a trip to my buddies. It was my buddy's birthday. T windy. Firefighter Kyle. Shout out to Kyle. Hey. So he's in Texas. I wanted to take a trip so I've I'll go to Texas.

Karen 23:51
I wanted him to test it out a little bit more locally,

Scott Benner 23:53
not halfway across the country. So I get to go into Los Angeles wants to see how that goes. Yeah.

Mike Green 24:02
I I'm the all or nothing. So make it down to Tucson the first night. Set up the tent and you got to unhook it to maneuver it. It's not that heavy but but bad shoulders and all the other that's going on. I got it set up pretty quick. And it shouldn't be about five minutes to put it away. It took me four hours to pack it up. I was just I was just struggling miserably. That was the proverbial kick in the balls that man you're not who you were. You were not the person you were you're not capable. You're not it just it just killed me. I ended up getting hotel night hotels every night after that took me four days to get there and six days to get back. And from when I got back and I can I will tell you that I collapsed. I went into such good I went into such a deep depression that I did. didn't realize how bad that affected me. Right? When he got home,

Karen 25:05
you know, I knew that he was upset by this that that was playing right. And so I thought he needs a couple of days to grieve this and to and to He's exhausted, he's, you know, upset. So he needs a couple of days to just be upset. And that was fine. I had I had no, you know, no issue giving him that space. But those Days turned into weeks. And those weeks turned into months. And yeah,

Mike Green 25:34
it got pretty bad. I've been literally I would I abused alcohol so bad to try to escape from the mental part of it. Some of it was the physical but I just, I got in such a hole. That from not dealing with what life is now. I mean, I would I wouldn't wake up to one or two in the afternoon. Some days I'd sleep for two or three days. I didn't realize that was even depressed. I just, I just turned in. Yeah,

Scott Benner 26:10
do I was drinking problem before the pain? Yeah,

Mike Green 26:14
I used alcohol a lot for for pain relief. You know, between my shoulders, I have a hard time sleeping. So I would, I would probably lean on the bottle heavier than I should. And I just I met Scott, I could drink a whole a whole handle of Bacardi a night. And I would just, it wasn't good.

Karen 26:36
It got to the point where he literally was like a zombie. He would he would be asleep all day. And up at least part of the night. I don't know, I was sleeping. And I think he was just in a YouTube hole and drinking and drinking. And that was that was the whole this whole

Scott Benner 26:56
can how long did that go for?

Karen 26:59
It was a couple of months. Okay. And then there was another kind of breaking point in that. And I happened to be one of my mother was visiting because of course, why not add that in? So she was seeing how miserable he was doing. And I think because my mother was here, he was trying to pick up a little bit and trying because he's usually the one that says does the cooking and

Scott Benner 27:23
let's have a very gregarious guy like, yeah, like a warm, happy, like, like, good to be around person is how it seems

Karen 27:32
you know, he loves to entertain, and he loves to cook for people. And I think he was really trying to do that for her even just one meal. And literally, he made one dinner for us. And later that night, he said, I'm having chest pains. I think I'm having a heart attack. I need you to take me to the ER. Yeah.

Scott Benner 27:53
So trying to pull yourself together for a day might put you in that situation you think? Yeah,

Mike Green 27:58
yeah, I just Yeah,

Karen 28:00
I in my head was going, Okay, you're not having a heart attack. I know exactly what this is. But you're not gonna listen to me. So let's go to the ER.

Scott Benner 28:09
So he's having a panic attack. And yeah, because for months prior to that, he's basically cocooning up in a way that he does not have to think about life or anything, because the minute he stops and tries to function the way he used to, then I'm useless. I couldn't get that camper set up. Like that whole thing hits him again. Yeah, yeah. You feel like your life was over like, yeah,

Mike Green 28:33
yeah, I did it. But I didn't realize it. And I didn't know what I was doing to Karen, and how that affected her. But I said we go in the emergency room. They mainly put me on the EKG and guys like it's not your day. Yeah. But we'll figure out what's going on.

Scott Benner 28:51
I wouldn't say something though. Mike, you said you didn't know how it was affecting Karen. But at the same time, you tried to just be cognizant of dinner and it almost ruined you like I think if you would have tried to stop and say this is how I'm acting. I wonder what's happening to her. I think you'd have had a panic attack there, too. Oh, yeah, absolutely. I don't think you could have handled anything at that point. Is that about right?

Karen 29:11
I knew that in that time. What I was struggling with was after that ER visit because the doctors are coming in and out. That's when he was finally cognizant enough for me to have a conversation with him to say, do you recognize that you're depressed? As the answer was? No. And I thought, it's so obvious, like, how do you not know? So I didn't have an expectation that he would be thinking about me in that time. Sure. But once he did kind of start to wake up and go, you're right. I have been really depressed. I do need to work on this. I need to figure this out. He still hadn't put that puzzle piece together of what I was going through during that time. Yeah, because I lost my partner, right? Yeah, I lost my support system. Yeah. Jeez,

Scott Benner 30:00
while he was probably thinking with a motorcycles got three wheels, she doesn't really need me anyway. But I hear what you're saying. Like it's, you're having an experience, and he's having an experience. He's incapable of thinking about the, the whole nature of your relationship. You're probably worried about him and at the same time, able to look and go, This is a show, like like, yeah, right, like holy crap like this is it like, I'm, what I'm 40 some years old. I'm married to this guy for 1718 years. And this is this is the last days of this, like, holy, that

Karen 30:35
I was thinking because I thought he knew he was depressed. I thought he knew. And I thought he had chosen to give up.

Scott Benner 30:45
But when he didn't know it was harder on you than if you thought he gave up.

Karen 30:49
Know, the fact that he didn't know that that we can work on you actually felt better about that. I did because now Okay, now he knows now he's actually making a choice. I thought he had already made a choice. I say, to give

Scott Benner 31:00
up. Okay, so happy day.

Karen 31:04
It got better from there.

Mike Green 31:05
It did. Yeah. She was ready to leave. I didn't I didn't even realize that. Do you have a backpack?

Scott Benner 31:10
Karen? Well, how far were we into that?

Karen 31:12
I was on Zillow looking for condos. No kidding. Well,

Scott Benner 31:18
I would have been a hell of a condo, right?

Karen 31:24
Because again, I thought he had made a choice. I thought he had made a choice to give up. And now I had to make a choice. Right? You know, do I save myself and get out of this for myself? Or is this the rest of my life? Do I let this happen?

Scott Benner 31:39
It felt like not only was he drowning, but he wasn't kicking anymore. And if you jumped in and grabbed him, you were both going down? Exactly. Oh, Mike, you had no idea. She was like looking for condos. I

Mike Green 31:49
had no idea. When I was depressed. I had no idea of what I was doing to her. I had no I didn't I didn't know until an emergency room that when she said, Do you realize you're depressed? I'm like, No. Yeah. And then it kind of?

Karen 32:06
Yeah, that's what opened the door. Because we weren't even we weren't able to communicate anything during that time at all.

Scott Benner 32:12
Like, did you know you were drinking too much?

Mike Green 32:15
I probably Yeah, I knew I was drinking too aware of it. I didn't care. I didn't I just I guess I did give up on knowingly. And I just, I just didn't care. I didn't want to, I didn't want to realize what I had become or what I was or what I was incapable of, or I missed who I was, I missed what I could do that I couldn't do anymore. As I think about it, that was the only thing I could reach for at the time.

Scott Benner 32:47
I'm sorry, can I ask you a question? Karen? Like, you know, Mike story, right. So, you know, he was diagnosed at a time where people didn't get good care. And that probably every one of the physical problems he has today is the little random bad luck of being diagnosed with diabetes at a time when they didn't have that those ideas, right. So how long are you able to hold on to the idea like, this isn't his fault? before it becomes I can't care if this is his fault? I

Karen 33:18
knew obviously going into the relationship going into the marriage that diabetes was going to be a stressful thing. Right? It just is. You know, I knew there was going to be extra expense, extra stress that that kind of stuff. And that didn't bother me. You know, it didn't deter me, I guess. I don't think I was prepared for how mentally impactful it is for both of us. Yeah, you know, how depressing it can it can be? Or? I don't know if I'm answering your question.

Scott Benner 33:48
But how it gets up on you kind of a you don't see it coming? Right. And then all of a sudden, there's thing but but my real question was if it's a great explanation of something, but not as my question. So I'll try again, right? You're aware that he didn't have good care and that he had complications, right? Correct. But do you really know what that means? In the moment, when you meet? Like, do you like, do you know, like, one day, he's gonna lose his pinkie, and he's not gonna be able to, like, fix a piano and like that, you don't really have context for that. So you learn that along the way. Like, at some point, now, you're aware of what happened to Mike, you're aware that if Mike was born in 2006, to me, that he'd be my daughter off somewhere with like, a great a one C and not no problems. Right. And so I assume that that brings a lot of compassion out. Yeah, but how far into his problems before that compassion is not enough for you to go I gotta get a condo. Like, do you know? You mean, does that make sense?

Karen 34:44
Yeah. So you know, we've gone through bouts of depression before his and subsequently kind of mind. Sort of because of it, not your fault. But you know, it's a struggle for me too.

Scott Benner 34:56
You can ping pong back and forth, too. Yeah, yeah. So

Karen 34:59
You know, we'd gone through it before and would always work towards it and worked our way out of it. For this round once he finally realized that it was too much for me, I told him that I said, you know, I've been giving you a lot of support. Yeah, and I need it back.

Scott Benner 35:15
Yeah, no kidding. So, especially

Karen 35:19
you know, as a woman in her 40s, discovering the joys of perimenopause.

Scott Benner 35:26
Listen, Mike pull together because I'm about to go nuts. Okay.

Karen 35:32
I've given you everything I've had for the last couple years, and I have nothing left and I'm gonna need it back. And you're gonna need to get your together because I'm gonna lose my mind. No,

Scott Benner 35:41
I hear you when you pointed it out to him. He accepted it right away. Were there any excuses? Not my fault. I know. And Mike, that's commendable like that? Because you easily could have said what I just said, you could have been like, I was diagnosed the 70s. I didn't know any of this was happening. Like, this isn't my fault. But you don't do that. It's one of the things about you that I find genuinely heartwarming. Is that No, a lot of bad stuff happened to you. None of it's your fault. I've never once heard you say why me? wasn't my fault. Not my fault. Can't blame me. Okay, I've never heard any of that from you. So. So when you said there was work to do, like, did you know what the work was? You have to go to talk to somebody June, Karen figured out together, like, how to take steps to get you through that.

Mike Green 36:26
I thankfully have a wonderful therapist. Okay. That I had to get back to see and who, me But Karen goes to my most of my appointments had worked with over the years for some other issues. So she knew my story. So literally, within five minutes of starting to the appointment, you're in session, and was able to get down and figure out what was going on in my head. And yeah, I once once Karen mentioned that in the hospital, it's like, I

Scott Benner 37:00
saw the light bulb. Yeah. Like he's like, I didn't mean to be doing this.

Mike Green 37:04
No, no, I felt it. I felt horrible for what I put her through. Sure. You know, to know what you did your spouse is the person you love. Your partner is just it just tore me up. Still tears me up. But to, to hear that and figure it out and realize what I did? unknowingly. It Yeah, it's

Karen 37:24
not your fault. Like, Oh, listen, I'm

Scott Benner 37:26
married. And everybody who's married knows what you're talking about. Yeah. So yeah, I mean, at some point, just Yeah.

Mike Green 37:31
You know, that was part of it had to work. I had to figure it out. I had to, I had to get help. Yeah. And

Karen 37:37
what I told him through all of this is, you know, I'm always gonna support you, through whatever you need supporting through. But only if you're helping yourself first. You know, I can't help you. If you're not willing to try. You know what I mean?

Scott Benner 37:55
Yeah. Do you think you would have left and stayed left? Or do you think you would have left to try to jumpstart him?

Karen 38:01
Probably more of a jumpstart? Yeah. Because I actually did. I did go away for a weekend right after that hospital visit. As his light bulb had gone off. He was starting to come around. He was gonna get back with his therapist, but he still hadn't seen how hurt I was. And it was like he was just trying to flip the switch back to normal. And I wasn't reading space.

Scott Benner 38:23
Yeah, you gotta give him a little space. Plus, just because he figured it out. Doesn't mean you're suddenly like, free of all that has happened. Exactly.

Karen 38:29
So I took off. I took off for a weekend. Yeah, he was, I think a little surprised by that. I have a friend that has a cabin in the mountains. And I texted her on a Friday morning. And I said, is your cabin available? I need to get out of this house. And I packed up a few things. I took the dog and I told him I said, I'll be back on Sunday. But I need a break. And we'll talk about it when I get back.

Scott Benner 38:53
Mike, were you 100% sure she'd be back on Sunday?

Mike Green 38:55
I was hoping. Yeah.

Scott Benner 38:57
I remember when my mom went to visit a friend. I'm going for a pack of cigarettes. Yeah, that we didn't all live together after that. Yeah, no, I

Mike Green 39:07
I was hoping. Yeah, no, I

Scott Benner 39:09
imagined it was probably so did that. Did that help her leaving? Did it give you some clarity? Or do you did you have an already? Well, I

Mike Green 39:16
think I was already on the track. I knew she needed a break. I knew she needed to get out. I knew it. Just it. It was more impactful of Oh, what did I do? It? I don't want to say it. It made me want to get better faster. But as I gotta fix this,

Scott Benner 39:32
I gotta fix this. Yeah, maybe along a little bit. I bet. Yeah. Yeah. And so Mike, it's interesting, because if people who have heard you on the podcast priority, if you haven't, I swear go listen to Mike's episode, or you haven't heard it before, but But you had a number of significant problems. So we're not going to like, like belabor the point and go list and list all of them. But one of the things that you tell me privately when we talk all the time, is that your vision has returned. Yeah, since Finding this podcast is that right? That

Mike Green 40:02
is correct. Since I started listening during COVID, I knew of the podcast or listening during COVID Got my Awan C's down to a five, five, and I've got my 2020 vision back from not going high, low, high, low, high low and your eyes shrink, swell string swells shrink swell. Well, most of the members in my family, grandfather, father, don't wear glasses. But as of brown 18, I've had to wear glasses to read street signs and distance and I'm having good solid blood sugar's keeping a low number. Pilar is 120, you know, keeping things in check. From the tools from the podcast, I'm having a hard time seeing with my glasses on my sunglasses, or prescription. Yeah, that's good. So I quit wearing them and go to the eye doctor. And Jake, you've got 2020 vision. So that that was a and I

Scott Benner 40:57
didn't ask you to point out how fantastic I am. I just think that's obvious, Karen, but I was I asked because I want people to see that you were, you know, long time in trouble. You still found your way through it. But just because you popped your head up doesn't mean something else can't come along, right. Because your your ebb and flow in here, like you had a long stretch of, you know, not even understanding what you're doing with your diabetes, perfectly honest. Right? And then you figure it out, you get the return of dysfunction, and you know, in stability and your blood sugars and all that comes with it. And then now the complications come back for you again, you lose your ability to work. And then something else happens, like, do you know, I mean, like, it's, I want people to understand that it's not a television show. It's not like, here's our characters, they had a trouble, they figured it out. And we're all good forever, like this could you know, stuff like this happens? It ebbs and it flows, and you've got to keep moving to conquer the next hill. Or, you know, or because, honestly, what happens caring, you move out, he drinks more. He's dead in a couple of years. Right? And, and you're by yourself, and instead look at the tour, you're here. Explain to other people with look out for it for themselves. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's wonderous, that you're it is that you're here. But it's also not by mistake. It's a testament to who you are and how you like you react to these things. You don't I mean,

Mike Green 42:23
you, you have to, and it's you know, we all know, diabetes sucks. You hear a lot of people that you know, diabetes, depression, this at the other, but you really have to seek the help get to help reach out, you know, it's gonna be depressing, but even

Karen 42:41
just working on the awareness of being depressed, you know, because that's something that Mike has had to work on with this therapist, like, hey, when, you know, certain trigger happens, and it kind of puts you in a mood for a couple of days, you know, you need to recognize those you need to realize,

Scott Benner 42:58
like, what do I do when I'm heading down that path that I don't recognize is the first step of that path when it's happening. Right, right. Because then, by the time you're jogging down the path, it's too late to turn back and you're, you're like, oh, Bacardi. And like, you know, like, yeah, and now all the sudden, this is normal, like now, my sleeping and drinking and not talking to you. Like, if I asked you to look back in hindsight, it's the one thing you could have done when you got back from that trip that would have avoided all this probably

Mike Green 43:28
realized I needed to figure out what my, my life is now, my life with diabetes, my life, being on disability, who I am, as a person, as a husband, as you know, day to day and what that means. And that was, that was a lot of the therapy was to to Okay, now what is what are you like I said, before I was, I was a guy that did everything. I was the guy that, you know, you were in trouble. I came and rescued and now I'm not that guy. I know. We were watching a stupid movie last night, The Poseidon Adventure and the chips upside down. I'm thinking it was the

Karen 44:11
9110 Yeah, we heard The Poseidon Adventure. I could,

Mike Green 44:15
I couldn't be the guy that, you know, I couldn't run out of the way, you know, if you

Scott Benner 44:21
would you just get hit by the dining room table. You'd be like, Oh,

Mike Green 44:26
it's just those moments. I mean, even yesterday, I was trying to work on my motorhome. You know, I was ready to call 911 He helped me off the roof. And then I was like, I can't get out. So it's just those moments that it's like, yeah,

Scott Benner 44:39
so recognize who you are now. Yeah. And be happy with what that is. And, and the other thing too, I mean, I'm gleaning from all this. If I had to say where you made your mistake when you came back from your trip, it would be not telling Karen how you felt.

Mike Green 44:55
I didn't know

Karen 44:56
how I felt well, I knew how he felt but he didn't And so

Scott Benner 45:00
you assumed he was going to get through it, because in the past, he would have gotten through it. Yeah,

Karen 45:04
I assumed he knew how he felt, and just needed a couple of days to process.

Scott Benner 45:08
Yeah, we're boys, we don't really know anything. In case you're wondering, I

Karen 45:12
really don't. It's surprising. You can be

Scott Benner 45:17
head down, hit the next thing, see what you can get accomplished. Yeah, give up give up at the end. I don't think men spend a lot of time thinking about how they feel like, generally speaking, especially a guy Mike's age. You don't I mean,

Karen 45:31
I think if he had gone back from that trip, and we had even just gone out to dinner, or like, had a conversation, you know, I don't think we even had a full conversation when he got back, he literally crashed.

Scott Benner 45:43
Can I tell you why it doesn't matter? Because if he would have because I would have done that. Right. Like, I would have come back completely examined myself and over shared and my wife would be like, shut up, like so. Like, so. It all depends on who you're saying it to as well, like you were, again, you have some hindsight going on to Karen, you're like, Well, if this would have happened, I would have responded this way. But you might not have you might have been like golf man like get leave me alone. You're a grown man, figure it out. Like you don't know what you would have really done. This is all hindsight. And I think that mental health, man, I have so many conversations with people where you just think it's unfair, like how quickly it hits you. And you don't even get the courtesy of what a physical health problem gives you. Right? You know what I mean? You don't even get the like, Oh, my head hurts. I have a hole in my skull. You don't get you know what I mean? You don't get you get the like, the slow, unseeable matriculation into this like, pool of nothingness. And you don't you did not see that you were heading there. And by the time you get there, you don't know the way out. If you even know you're there. Yeah, you know, it's just a description. It's unfair. But I mean, you had each other and you worked it out. And luckily, he tried to make dinner for your mom and everything got fixed. Yeah, so yeah, but yeah, but no kidding to like Mike, like, at your core. You were like, even in the middle of all that. You're like, I love to get up and make a meal for everybody. And she couldn't handle it. But because of who you are not maybe unknowingly, but you were looking for a way to get back to who you are. Just when you got there. You couldn't manage it. That's all. Yeah, yeah. It's really interesting. I'm fascinated endlessly by people. I'm so glad I have a podcast. I used to just be the guy at your job who like asked you a bunch of inappropriate questions if people didn't ask each other at work.

This is a much better use of my time, actually. Wow, it's really something so. Mike, where are you at right now with your different complications? Like where are things at? or is anything progressing? You haven't locked keeping anything away? What's going on?

Mike Green 47:55
Well, yeah, I know. I'll never get better just trying to maintain to not have things get worse. I'm not saying my neuropathy and my legs or feet are getting better, but I don't use my walking stick as much anymore. I've got so that I believe is progressing a little better. There's, I have different aches and pains that I think things are trying to connect, like, misfire or fire sometimes it's just kind of weird. You know, obviously, my eyesight. Brain fog. I don't have as many bad brain foggy days as I was having by maintaining better blood sugars. Okay, I believe, but I still in brain foggy.

Karen 48:40
I'm nodding. Yeah,

Scott Benner 48:41
yeah. But enough that you'd have to ask Karen because you're not sure. Yes.

Mike Green 48:45
Right. Yeah, cuz I would all this is going like, I'll get triggered by things that people say or my family or you know, stuff. That's a big trigger. Yeah, that just it's like, wow. And I question myself, Am I safe? Am I Am I hole Am I real? Is this real? Should I be doing this? And then I just it just spirals me for a day or two sometimes. Karen?

Scott Benner 49:14
I feel weird asking this in front of Mike. But do you ever wonder who he'd be if his blood sugar's weren't all over the place for a lot of his life? Because he's such a kind person already. Do you know what he mean? Yeah, I

Karen 49:29
think he'd still be that 18 year old kid out in the desert. Honestly, I think he'd still be that. I mean, you look at pictures from when he was younger and like the smile plastered across his face. I remember one time when we first got together, and we went out on what your dad's boat or something and we were tubing. It was when my brother was visiting. That was your your coworkers. My coworkers felt That's right. My coworkers. We were tubing and he was laughing. I mean On a motorboat, you know, he was laughing so loud in the tube that we can hear him in the boat. Yeah. And he was just having a blast

Mike Green 50:08
the guy the boat was trying to whip me to make me crash.

Karen 50:11
I was laughing. As

Scott Benner 50:14
Mike told me stories from his life. And the first episode he did with me, I had that feeling of like, he's like the Forrest Gump of people. Like, he'd go from like one thing to the next to the next. And I'm like, how did you get to that as you get that you're on a boat? Now you're doing this, like, I'm like, you know, like, that kind of thing? Like, that's how I that's how I think of him. Like, do you have any means like in that, and I obviously my interaction with you, Mike is limited, much more so than Karen's, obviously. But I wonder that because I try to get through to people all the time. You know, I have a weird job. So there's a lot about diabetes that you're not going to know on the first day. And you might not know it in the first week or the first year, right. And it's my job to very slowly try to keep you entertained enough that you'll stick through these conversations and hear little bits and pieces. So you can put it all together so that you don't end up a guy in your 50s Wondering what your personality would be like, if you didn't not take care of your diabetes, or if somebody didn't tell you what to do, because it's oftentimes no one's fault. You know, like, it wasn't Mike's fault. Like, it's not like my god, like rock solid direction, he was like that I'm not doing that. Like, that's not what happened. You know what I mean? And you think that however, many years later, this wouldn't be what's going on. But it happens all day long to people like newly diagnosed people. And so I want them to understand that vacillating blood sugar up and down, it changes how you react to things. And that is changing who you are, what your personality is like, and the experiences that you'll have throughout your life, you know, not just at the end, I don't want to lose half my pinky, or I don't want to not be able to hold up a Goldwing because my legs have neuropathy. Like that's the stuff that's easy to talk about. But I mean, I just want people to, to understand the totality of what it is they're trying to accomplish. And if it's too much for them, then they need to take it in bits and pieces, that's fine. But for the people who really can handle the truth, and and they deserve to know. And without Mike and people like him, no one's telling those stories, your doctor doesn't tell you that you're not get you know, you get like, you get like you don't want to lose a leg one day, like maybe if somebody's trying to scare you into taking care of yourself, they don't tell you. Here's how you'll stop that from happening. You know, Pre-Bolus your meals like fat might make your blood sugar drop 90 minutes after you eat. Like, these are the things that no one says this to anybody. And they'll listen, no one someone does, but not enough. You know, there's far too many people who don't get the information. I just like I'm trying to make it my mission in life to make sure as many people as possible now, like, that's really just what I'm doing. So

Mike Green 53:00
you are and it's scary to medical practice. These days, the, you know, I had a, my GP sees my five, five and tells me I'm taking too much insulin. Okay, what should I do just take less insulin, okay. And then I had a type one diabetic doctor that was mad at me and wanted me to be up at seven. Like, why, you know, they don't teach you how to use. So I have a wonderful endocrinologist now, that asked me, how did you obtain that? And I explained her and she says, wonderful, you look at my time and range, you'll look at my percentage of highs and lows, but it's so scary. The lack of knowledge that is out there, they don't teach you how to use them. So they don't teach you all of these tools and things. You know, they don't they don't tell you, you can do better if you want. You know, and here's how they, they just don't do that. It's just, it's so frustrating to think. If somebody told me that 20 years ago or whatever, you know, what, what my life would be now? Or like, the like carrots is, you know, just seeing those pictures of me younger and seeing

Scott Benner 54:16
so what the promise might, what could happen like and the reason I asked you about it isn't to make you upset and I do apologize for that. I asked you about it because because right now there's a doctor listening and what I'm trying to say to him like or her not so slickly you know is you have the opportunity to stop somebody 25 or 30 years from now from having this experience. Yes, Mike's life is now about like, let's try to hold it off as long as we can. Like, that's just the sad truth. There's stuff that can't go backwards for him. But everyone moving forward from here has an opportunity not to be in your situation. Yes, if someone helps them, and yes, I can't find everybody. You know what I mean? Like I I'm not going to find everybody. I take a lot of solace from when people come into the Facebook group. It asks you that one question, how'd you find out about this? And more and more people say my doctor told me about it. Yeah. And I think that's terrific. Like, you know, but also you just said something that I've heard 100 times I have, I had a type one, Endo, who told me, my a one C was too high, or too low. And you're like, Oh, well, if I can't count on the type one endo to understand like, what am I? What am I hoping for? Exactly? You know what I mean? Like, your GP didn't know, you had a type one, Endo? Who was like, Oh, you're you're a one sees too low. Like, I don't know what that means. Because if you didn't have diabetes, your one C would be like, 4.8 4.9. Yeah. And, you know, I know what the ADA says, like, you know, under seven, you'll be okay. But they used to say under eight, you'll be okay. Like, so? Did they, like suited the song? Did they say it? Because that's what the technology can support at the time? Or do they say it? Because that's true. You don't I mean, part

Karen 55:59
of that, too, that I find so frustrating because I have friends that are type one is she wanted to get pregnant, and her endo said, Okay, well, we need to bring your agency down first. And it's like, if you can expect a pregnant person to maintain this lower number EP, why can't you expect a non pregnant person to do that? Why

Scott Benner 56:17
is my agency not okay, when I'm not pregnant? But it's okay. When I when I'm not pregnant, but when I am, it's not okay. Like, wait, is it not? Okay? Or it's like saying, Yeah, you can have a little sip of arsenic every day, just a little bit? Oh, not when you're pregnant. Don't do it that, oh, what can I do when I'm pregnant? What the hell? Like I don't even like it. And I get it like, I I'm not an idiot, I understand the big picture. Some people aren't going to understand they're going to be low all the time. They're going to bounce around everything. But I still maintain. You tell everybody, and you'll save some of them? Yes. You know what he mean? Like, we're not going to get everybody. But is that an excuse to not get anybody? It doesn't make any sense to me. It

Mike Green 57:00
doesn't. And that's that that's also what's so frustrating. It's like, Here are the tools, timing and amounts, and, you know, get your settings tight and not having one low. One day at 1am. And your doctors mess with all your settings and like listening. Yeah, listen to your grand rounds, I your podcasts, doing a great job getting the information out there. And I just want people to really, really, really focus on that is, you know, don't live 20 years, 30 years, with bad a one sees with bad control. You can do it there is better. Yeah. It took me a while to figure it out. But, you know, like you said, I know I'm not gonna get better. Hopefully, I won't get worse, right? I just want that message out there. And

Scott Benner 57:50
yeah, and you do a really good job of that by sharing what is a very difficult listen, I'm looking at you today. It's a very difficult thing to say out loud. I can't imagine like, you know, it's but I'm very grateful. Karen, did you listen to his first episode? You did. Okay. So you know, then like, it was hard for me to talk to Mike. Yeah. Because his name is Mike. Like that mess that messed me up. Like, right. Yeah, yeah. And so I don't say it very often on the podcast. But you know, a lot of the motivation I have to talk. The way I talk about this, is because my friend Mike was diagnosed when we were 19. And he's gone. You know, yeah, he's just gone. And a more lovely person you're never gonna meet. And, you know, he was in his living room one day talking about dinner and stood up to go make it and fell over face first. And then he was gone. Yeah. He started off on regular and mph, his doctor never moved him along to faster acting insulin. As time went on. He thought he was doing the right thing. I look back now with all the knowledge I have today. And I can't believe none of us knew. Like, like, it's so sad that we didn't know the things that we knew. Like, like, very simply, you'd stop at a urinal. And you, you thought Mike was going to piss through the wall, the through the porcelain and the plaster, and it was going to end up outside, right. And it's and he'd always be like, Oh, he pee so much. And it was so much force behind it. But you know, none of us ever thought, Oh, he's forcing all that glucose through his kidneys. And I bet he's gonna be on dialysis one day, but there it was, you know, and now he's on dialysis. Then he has a heart attack. And now I'm in my I'm in my mid to late 40s. Standing in a hospital room, play in my buddy's best friend's my buddy's favorite songs to him before I leave, because he's gonna be dead. I'm not gonna get back here again. You know, and why did that happen? Because he's born at the wrong time. And then he didn't bump into a guy who said to him, Hey, have you heard about Novolog Atlantis? You don't mean like, and by the time that someone finally said to him, upgrade your care is just it was too late already? Yeah, yeah. And that's it. So Though I don't know, man, I just appreciate you sharing this because I don't think it's easy to say things like in the abstract about stuff like this, but until somebody comes on and says, Hey, I only got half my pinkies and I can't do my job and I'm cloudy and you know, my feet, you know, I have neuropathy. And I mean, you've had other stuff, too, like, we didn't even list everything, because no one is trying for this not to be a bummer. But like, you know, until somebody is willing to say that out loud. I don't know how you expect a person to really understand it. You can't just say, Hey, you don't want your finger cut off one day, do you? Because that's, that's too nebulous. You know what I mean? Like that. Nobody, nobody's gonna think that's gonna happen. You know, people

Mike Green 1:00:40
don't talk about it. And you know, we, we have friends that are type ones that I'm like, I'm not like you, I don't care what you eat, I don't care how you eat, I don't care. If you take care yourself, don't take care of yourself. But if you want some help, I'm here. I can give you some tools. And we have several friends that are type one. And I just think oh, my gosh, you know? Well,

Karen 1:01:01
and that's Scott, why he reached out to you. Because, you know, he did that complications episode. And he's gotten feedback from people that said, that really helped that, you know, was a light bulb moment for me that that put some things together. And so we felt he felt that it was important to come back and kind of follow up on that and say, hey, yeah, there's certainly a huge physical side of this disease. But there's a huge mental load that can pile up on Yeah, yeah.

Scott Benner 1:01:34
Well, Mike, you're not the only one that heard from somebody that had helped you. Like, I hear about it all the time from people. So and, you know, like Willie was on here, he mentioned, you know, a lot of people will tell me that, like yours is one of their favorite episodes of the podcast, which is this in an interesting to how much people desire, like to know the rest of it, because it's not an upbeat conference. I think you cry, I cry. Like, it's terrible. You know what I mean? And, and yet people are like, Oh, it was a really valuable for me to hear that. Now, listen, would I hand that episode to somebody whose kid was diagnosed six days ago, I would not, you know what I mean? Like, it's not where I would have you start, I'd want you to listen to bold beginnings, listen to defining stuff, understand what you're doing, have some successes, so you can feel like he can build on them. But I'm telling you, what, a year or two down the line, I think you need to know, part of

Mike Green 1:02:26
that also is obviously when I was diagnosed the 70s no tools, no technology. And that's part of my message is, you know, we have the tools and technology today. Use it, this doesn't have to happen to you. And that's, that's, that's my any message, that's my biggest message, I just want to get across to people and let them know that you know, this, you don't have to have this happen. This doesn't have to be heard here in dollar future, or whatever you want to call it. So you know, utilize it. And if you don't think you're getting good care question. And then it's, you know, don't

Scott Benner 1:03:06
give up to be well, but give me a second mic. Because, in fairness, we don't know what if we would have met 18 year old Mike in the tube with a Miller Light and told him all this, you might have been like, that ain't gonna happen to me. I don't know. You know what I mean? Like, there's no way to know who so you can't give up like I very much don't want to call somebody out. But I think there'll be enough distance between these episodes where we won't know what I'm talking about. But I interviewed someone recently, about like a person they were caring for, and they're not doing what they need to do. And it's pretty scary what they're not doing. And the person was like, Well, you know, I told him, I'm like, That's it. We give up? Like, what? Like, tell him again? Tell him 50 I don't I don't want her to be mad at me. You prefer she can't feel her feet, like 30 years. So now like, I don't know, like, I know, it's difficult. And that psychologically, everybody doesn't just fall into line like everyone's not Jenny. You know what I mean? Whose mom like, cooked really well for her and she's like, I eat good. And it's fine. Like, you know, that's, I've said that the journey we were on like, it's maybe just dumb luck of your personality and who your mom was, you don't you mean that that worked out for you. But so it's not going to work out for everybody right away, but I don't understand that the very quick, just dismissal of it. Like oh, well, I said something didn't happen. I

Mike Green 1:04:24
think it's easy to live obviously. Take your insulin eight. All right, you got high blood sugar, you know, if it hits 300 You know, it'll come down and just kind of go day by day because you're not feeling the repercussions right then. Yeah. And then when they creep up on you, obviously, it's usually too late but they just they dismiss it because they don't want to be bothered. Oh, that's a hassle. I hate diabetes. Oh, this that the other it's no people like that. And it's like, What the hell are you doing? And I want to scream and shake their heads. But maybe

Scott Benner 1:04:56
honestly, perspective only comes away it comes like maybe I only know this but because of what happened to my friend, Mike, like, right, because maybe, you know, maybe I just had an experience that informed me differently than it was going to inform them. Well, I

Karen 1:05:08
mean, that's what it comes down to. Right? Everybody's lived experiences different. And, you know, Mike was surprised that I was willing to marry him, because my own experience with diabetes prior to being with him was a relative of mine. And it wasn't infrequent to have to call 911 Because she was having a low blood sugar. And so I kind of went into it thinking, Okay, well, this is going to be part of my life, I'm gonna have to call 911, you know, couple times a year, whatever it is. And he was really surprised that I was still willing to, you know, move forward. But that was my experience. And thankfully, so far, I'm gonna knock wood here.

Scott Benner 1:05:49
on the wrong side, don't knock on the wrong side of your head. Isn't there like a thing in there?

Mike Green 1:05:57
Better than a peg leg?

Scott Benner 1:05:58
I don't know. But Oh. My gosh, all right. Is there anything that we haven't talked about that we should have? I

Mike Green 1:06:06
don't think so. I forgot my notepad, I couldn't remember where I put it. But I guess, just realize that this is the long game of it, you know, take the best care you can of yourself, utilize the tools we have today, continually re educate yourself as new insulins new technologies, you know, if you got a doctor that graduated in 1984, and he's still teaching 1984, medicine, for God's sake, get a better doctor, you know, don't rely on not great care, you know, do everything you can to take the best care, you can have your diabetes. And even that type one diabetic doctor I had, you know, he, you know, told me, he says isn't that you know, having a, you know, great agency, isn't that more stressful for you? And like, no, actually, I think so much less about diabetes. Now, once learning how insulin works, learning how that works. So educate, educate, and take care

Karen 1:07:08
of your mental health to Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:07:10
but Mike, was that sent to you by a doctor after you had complications? Isn't it a lot of stress? They have a five five a one C?

Mike Green 1:07:17
Yeah, yeah, that was a type one diabetic doctor that was just upset. And you know, you need to be up at seven. And I want to

Scott Benner 1:07:23
be clear, you're in an office missing two pinkies. You can't work. You have all these problems from uncontrolled unmanaged blood sugars through your years. And their advice was, you don't want to be stressed out by all this. Do you?

Mike Green 1:07:36
Yeah. Yeah. That was his his direct quote, is that too stressful? I don't know what to say, before you launch your 250 300 You'd say, Ah, man, I gotta cover you know, so you're dealing with that all day long, that was more stressful. I realized afterwards, then having my alarm go off at 120. And, you know, taking a peek at Sugar mate looking at the Delta and deciding you know, a 10th or two insulin versus I think so much less about it. Now. It's just, it's, it's really in the background, not in the forefront.

Scott Benner 1:08:10
When your electric bill comes and you think you can't afford it not opening, it is worse than opening it knowing it says like, That's just you just deal upfront, and keep going. And I mean, listen, it's easy to say Pre-Bolus Your meals the day will go better, don't like let your blood sugar get too high, get ahead of it before that happens. You'd probably rather stop, like a quick load and be fighting with the high all day, like all the things that you'll hear me say somewhere, they all lead to like, I think less activity during the day with diabetes, not more. And, and you start to like, you start to get what you expect. So then it lightens the load, you know, you're like, Oh, I'm gonna do this. And this is gonna happen. And, you know, eight out of 10 times it does happen like great. So eight times I don't have to think about the other two times I fixed it, but like, just let everything go to hell. Because you can ignore it. While it's on its way to hell is bizarre to me. When I was growing up. My little my little brother, I don't think he'd mind as he's a grown man. Now. Rob was either in trouble and you were aware of it. Or he was about to be in trouble and you hadn't found out about it yet. Oh, God, I hope he hears that one day, I think I think you'll laugh is I don't want to hear that. I want somebody to tell me troubles coming. Yeah, I don't I don't want to I don't want to pretend live and then the cops show up. You know what I mean? Like, I just I wouldn't like is there something we can maybe get right this ship now like before it gets to the to the end problem? I don't know why that's not common sense. So I don't know. I

Mike Green 1:09:39
don't know either. I can't answer that. I don't know. But I just I know what, like you said, you know, open the electric bill. Look at it, take care of it. And that's where I use the delta so much. That's my that's my biggest tool. You know, what, what is it doing? You know, is it 120 plus zero? The timer 15 minutes, so I can remember to look at it again. And it's typically going back down to around 100. If it's 120 plus three, all right, you know, address it before it gets up to the 150s, two hundreds I had a yesterday, I had a site went bad. I was eating some ice cream. I've got some lot of scar tissue in my stomach area. So sites don't last long there. And I'm feeling like just absolute crap. And I look down. I'm, I'm 300 That's the first time I've been 300 years, since, you know, listening to the podcast and just, Oh, okay. You know, hit it hard on got right back down, but it wasn't gonna sit there and stare at it. And from having normal blood sugars for so long. I didn't realize how bad I felt at that high level, right? It's just, you know, address it, take care of it. It wasn't like, I will stare at it for awhile. I'll give some more. And so I got another day on the pod no changing.

Scott Benner 1:10:57
I think knowing is better than wandering. Absolutely. That's all like I would much rather to go back to the the electric bill, you know, example. Like, even if you can't pay it, I think it's less stressful to know that it's $400 than to wonder if it's $400. You know, like, I just

Mike Green 1:11:15
think so. Yeah. That's a great analogy. Yeah. And if

Scott Benner 1:11:19
it's $400, like, get rid of that hot tub, you know, you never end anyway. You know, I like it. Yeah. All right, Mike, I really do appreciate this. Man. This is great for you to give your time. And Karen, for bringing Karen along. And for being willing to talk about all this too. I really appreciate it. Thank you. Yeah, no,

Mike Green 1:11:39
thank you for doing the podcast. You know, what you're doing out there. It's a lot of great information, a lot of great stories. Listen to all the episodes, man, I've learned so much more about the world, listening to people's stories, and, you know, hearing all the different episodes and just the diversity that's, that's out there. And yeah, it's still diabetes. But it's, you know, what, what's your twist? What's your story? What happened? And you know, putting those messages out there, I think is just so important. And the tools, it's just, you know, thanks.

Scott Benner 1:12:16
Oh, you're very welcome. I agree. I think I think listening to people's stories is, is maybe the best way to learn anything.

Mike Green 1:12:23
When I do you travel, I, I'll put your pocket I'll listen for four or five, six hours. I've I've listened to probably every episode, if not twice, three times, you know, I'll start from 100 to 200 200 304. Back to you know, it's like you hear new things.

Scott Benner 1:12:38
Everyone should do that. And you're letting me down if you're not listening at least three times every episode. But I listen, I will tell you something. I'm not embarrassed tell you. I listened to the podcast this morning. I got up in the morning, and there was a cold wind episode. And I thought I remember recording this. I don't remember enough about it. And I listened to it this morning while I was getting ready and doing stuff. And I mean, it's not it's gonna sound strange. So I'm the ones saying it's a good podcast. It's not a thing you just have to listen to because you have diabetes and dammit, I need to figure this out. And and I think that I think that's also part of why it's helping people is because it actually entertaining. Yeah, you know, so and thoughtful and, and I love learning about the world and not knowing, like I was telling Mike recently, that was interviewing somebody who, oh, we just talked about it before we came on. It guy said, you know, the passing of my father, I used one of the episodes where you talked about like the 54321 grounding technique. And he's like, and that was really valuable for me when my father died. And when he told me, I thought, Oh, that's so weird. That's like a thing I thought of in the shower. And I then sent a text to Erica, who does like the kind of therapy like basic conversations with me. And I was like, Do you know anything about the 54321 method? And she goes, Yeah, I'm like, could you talk about on the pocket? Because sure. I was like, let's do that. And then like a year and a half later to hear a grown man say like, again, I mean, that thing you thought of in the shower, like it's very strange for me still. I know it works at this point. So yeah,

Mike Green 1:14:07
it was great, great episode. I love all the series episodes, you're doing the cold when the rounds, just all of them don't matter. They're valuable. I get. There's tools I take from everything, all the all the different tiny little nuggets you hear. And that's why listening back again, sometimes you re hear something. Oh, I forgot about that. I'm

Scott Benner 1:14:26
glad. Well, like that is a six by four whiteboard behind me and everything. You can't read on that because it's too far away or my ideas for the podcast. So we'll see what comes next. Hopefully you can keep it going for a long time to come

Mike Green 1:14:39
out almost 2000 now, so I think you got a good streak going.

Scott Benner 1:14:42
I'm not going to stop. That's all I'm not going to stop until somebody makes me stop. And I don't think I don't think they can do that. So I guess I'm okay. All right, Matt, thank you very much. Hold on one second for me. Sure. Thanks, Karen.

Unknown Speaker 1:14:54
Thank you

Scott Benner 1:15:00
I want to thank the ever since CGM for sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast and invite you to go to ever since cgm.com/juicebox. To learn more about this terrific device, you can head over now and just absorb everything that the website has to offer. And that way you'll know if ever sense feels right for you. Ever since cgm.com/juice box. A huge thanks to us med for sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast. Don't forget us med.com/juice box this is where we get our diabetes supplies from you can as well use the link or call 888-721-1514 Use the link or call the number get your free benefits check so that you can start getting your diabetes supplies the way we do from us med. And don't forget right now go check out touched by type one.org Whether you're interested in their upcoming event, or you just want to see a fantastic organization helping people with type one diabetes, it's touched by type one.org. You can also find them on Instagram and Facebook. I know that Facebook has a bad reputation. But please give the private Facebook group for the Juicebox Podcast. A healthy once over Juicebox Podcast, type one diabetes. The group now has 47,000 members in it. Sorry, it's 50,000. Now they just keeps growing. It gets 150 new members a day, it is completely free. And at the very least you can watch other people talk about diabetes, and everybody is welcome type one type two gestational loved ones, everyone is welcome. Go up into the feature tab of the private Facebook group. And there you'll see lists upon lists of all of the management series that are available to you for free in the Juicebox Podcast, becoming a member of that group. I really think it will help you it will at least give you a community. You'll be able to kind of lurk around see what people are talking about. Pick up some tips and tricks. Maybe you can ask a question or offer some help Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes on Facebook. The episode you just heard was professionally edited by wrong way recording. Wrong way recording.com If you're not already subscribed or following in your favorite audio app, please take the time now to do that. It really helps the show and get those automatic downloads set up so you never miss an episode. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.

#1220 Defining Diabetes: Tug of War

Scott and Jenny Smith define diabetes terms In this Defining Diabetes episode we define tug of war.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends and welcome to episode 1220 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Today on defining diabetes Jenny Smith and I are going to define tug of war. Nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. When you place your first order for ag one with my link, you'll get five free travel packs and a free year supply of vitamin D. Drink ag one.com/juice box. If you have type one diabetes, or are the caregiver of someone with type one and a US resident, please go to T one D exchange.org/juice. Box and complete the survey. Your answers will help to move type one diabetes research board that may help you to T one D exchange.org/juicebox. If you're living with diabetes, or the caregiver of someone who is and you're looking for an online community of supportive people who understand, check out the Juicebox Podcast private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes, there are now 50,000 members who are sharing stories and ideas. Go check out this amazing private and free Facebook group. Today's episode is sponsored by Medtronic diabetes, a company that's bringing together people who are redefining what it means to live with diabetes. Later in this episode, I'll be speaking with Mark, he was diagnosed with type one diabetes at 28. He's 47. Now that at the very end of the episode, you can hear my entire mini interview with Mark to hear more stories from the Medtronic champion community or to share your own story. Visit Medtronic diabetes.com/juice box and check out the Medtronic champion hashtag on social media. All right, one last one. Yay. Jenny, I'm going to ask you to help me define something that I made up. So okay. But you're uniquely qualified for this. And I'll tell you why. You know, fabulous a number of years ago, you've said a number of kind things to me over the years. But a number of years ago, you told me that my explanation about how meal insulin works was the clearest that you had heard and that you were telling it to other people, which very much touched me. Oh, when I describe a tug of war. Yeah, between the insulin and the carbs. Yes. So apparently, I've said that, you know, enough times in the podcast that now people are like, Hey, what is this tug of war thing? If they haven't, like actually heard the explanation? So we're gonna define tug of war. Yay. As it pertains to meal insulin may give you a tiny bit of back. I haven't. I haven't done this in a while. Do you know that I used to stand in this room by myself. And give this explanation out loud until I got to the point where I could just do it. Because I was giving so many talks that I didn't want to get confused while I was doing it. Anyway, I've practiced this. So I feel you're ready. You're ready to go? No, I just it makes me feel stupid to say it in front of you. But because I like stood up and gone through it so many times. But

Jennifer Smith, CDE 3:25
would you like me to turn my camera on? Look away, please. I can look at your chameleon. So.

Scott Benner 3:31
But that'll sound like a non sequitur to anyone who doesn't know there's a chameleon? Or, okay, so, in the beginning, before I had a podcast, I had in my head that using insulin at meals was like the scales of justice, but they both had little holes in each side. And I used to try to tell people imagine that there's a dish on one side of the scale and addition on the other side, and you're adding insulin and carbs in it in a way that as they're dripping out the bottom and losing their ability to impact the scale. You just add a little more of this and a little bit of that just to keep it balanced. I probably told this story somewhere else. I'll just skip through it very quickly. I was trying to explain that to someone one day. And they said I'm sorry, I don't understand what you're saying. And I was in a position where if I didn't help this person, a very young confused mom was going to go back to a very young baby with diabetes and not understand how to help the baby. Not a good scenario. It was in a private conversation. I felt heartbroken. I didn't want to leave her off the call that we were on together. And so I just re centered myself and I have no idea where this came from. But I said have you ever been involved in tug of war like on a schoolyard? And she said yes. And I was like, Okay, great. I said, Well, instead of one team on one side, one team on the other side, I want you to think about insulin on one side of the rope and carbs on the other side of the rope. And in the middle, of course, there's this flag hanging. And in your tug of war at school, it was your goal to yank the flag onto your side, I said, but in our tug of war, the goal is that the flag never moves, it just stays in the center. And no matter how hard the carbs pull, or how hard the the insulin poles, we can't get that flag to go up and down. And I said, Now right now we're thinking east, the West, you know, but I want you to flip that whole image in your head to North and South. So instead of the carbs pulling West, let's think of the carbs pulling north. And let's think of the insulin pulling south. And we still don't want that flag to move. I said, Now imagine, every minute that goes by a new flag pops up in this timeline. And longer, we keep that flag in the middle. That's a straight line on a CGM. And she said, I'm following and I was like, Oh, good, because I was nervous. I was literally making it up as I was going along, right. And I said to her, I'm like, so just try to imagine this. You know, when you eat food, your blood sugar starts to go up pretty quickly. You know, in the first couple of minutes, you can see it on the CGM. But when you Bolus for insulin, it doesn't, like the insulin goes in. And it just, you know, sometimes can sit there for 1520 minutes, depending on the situation and, and where your blood sugar is, at the time, could go longer and longer before you see an impact and the pulling down from the insulin. So what I want you to do is, I want you to cheat a little, I want you to tell the insulin, it's allowed to pull first. And then right when the insolence kind of picking up steam, and that flag is starting to move off center towards the insulin. So let's go ahead and eat. Right. And so now you'll eat and a few minutes later, just as that flag is really starting to move towards the insulin side, or, you know, down, the food kicks in and starts to pull up. And I was like, and now we're in a tug of war. And if we've timed that insulin correctly, and use the nerf, and if your Basal is right, and all the other things, neither side is going to win that tug of war. And the flag is going to stay right in the middle, minute after minute off into the future. And you're going to have a nice stable line. And that's doable when you're eating anything. Like it's not easy, but it's doable. That's it. That's what I said to her. And she was like, okay, I'm good. And she was on her way. What about that? Did you like when you heard it?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 7:34
I just liked that there was something that was easy to put in the mind that is of a tug of war game, knowing what the pull is and the fact of a difference in a real tug of war game, you want one side to win, right? We want insulin to win, but we also want the food to win. Right? So your explanation also goes along with a CGM line, which allows us to see that flag just little bits of movement as each side gets their pull in, but overall keeps it fairly nice and stable. You might have a little bit of a rise, the insulin really gets moving because you timed it well and it smooths it out on the back end. It's just a really easy mental kind of picture to paint for people who are much more I think visual learners in a way okay. It just yeah, it made it was just a really nice a really nice description.

Scott Benner 8:29
I sometimes I you'll hear me talk about, like football with like blockers. And there's times when I think about it my head like, like the point in time on the CGM line like the.is, almost like a drunk running between two lines of people with pillows. And as they wobble back and forth, the people with the pillows reach out and shove them back to the center again. And I don't know another way to say that when I'm watching Arden's graph, and I see it rising. In my mind, I imagine the insulin on top of it, trying to push it back down again. And the same way as treating a low. When I see that going down, and the carbs go in, in my mind, I'm like, okay, the carbs are underneath there like a floor jack now trying to lift it back up again. And it helps me a lot when I'm considering the insulin to picture it that way. Because the math of it doesn't help me in that moment. Like I'm not comforted by we use the right amount, or I know her carb ratios good. Like that kind of stuff. Like I look at that graph. And I imagine what's happening carbs, fat, digestion, insulin, Basil specifically, and you'll and I find the addendum to this story. Now that algorithms exist. And you can see basil getting like ramped up yeah. Right, it almost feels like we can't protect the quarterback with our five offensive linemen. So I've kept the tight end and to block, which is a very specific idea if you don't understand football, but like, here's more like, hey, this rise is happening. I know your basil of one unit an hour usually handles this, but the algorithm says it's not working. Here's 1.3 units for the next 10 minutes or something like that. I'm gonna I'm gonna leave the tight end back to block a little longer. Yep. And those little like, picture grams are a big part of how I taught myself to understand the algorithm. And yeah, and graphs on the CGM. So I

Jennifer Smith, CDE 10:39
think it goes along with and we have, we use bump and nudge which are also terms that you brought in, we use them kind of opposite. Mine is opposite of what cuz you say what for bump what is bumped do

Scott Benner 10:53
to me bump brings you up and nudge brings you down. And you think of nudges nudging up, you nudge with carbs, and you bump with insulin, correct and I bumped with carbs and I nudge with insulin, but it doesn't matter as long as matter

Jennifer Smith, CDE 11:09
as long as you understand which is which for you

Scott Benner 11:11
as long as you understand, which is wait, don't start randomly going bump and meaning one thing and everything. But even that like it's it's still that you've heard me say before, and this gets a little bit away from tug of war. But at the same time, I think it helps add to the idea. When you learn to drive, one of the hardest things in the beginning is to learn not to overcorrect. Right, like you don't want to like see that yellow line. You're like, Oh my God. And then the next thing you know, you're across the yellow line and you're out into the weeds or you're crossed into the other lane. I think that when you when I stopped and thought about when you're drifting off the road, the amount you turn the steering wheel to bring yourself back is almost imperceivable to your eye. You're barely moving it. Right. And that's how I kind of think about the insulin in non emergency situations. Like I'm not saying if you're 60 straight down, you should have two gummy bears and see what happens. But because what's gonna happen is you're gonna wake up with the EMTs there and gummi bears in your mouth. But if you're drifting at the end of a Bolus, and it's five hours in and you see an ad become a seven da become a 76. I'm like, I wonder what a gummy bear would do right here. I wonder what's two Skittles might accomplish? Like, can I just bump this back up a little bit. And then the same. And I know we've talked about it so many times. But it really does fit here. The same thing with a slowly drifting up blood sugar, my 95 has become 105 has become this. Like instead of staring at it for the next three hours until it's 180 and bolusing. Like see what point one does. You know what I mean? Like what would Temp Basal for 15 minutes accomplish here like that kind of stuff?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 12:54
I think that's maybe why we consider it like I've always been conservative with nudging. I've always been concerned nudge and bump in terms of me, a nudge is a little light, gentle. And a bump is a little bit more of a. Right. So my nudge to my blood sugar is if I'm lower. I've always been really conservative with what I use to treat. And so I consider that more of like a little gentle. Like, I might need one or two grams of carbs, a little nudge. Whereas if my blood sugar is going up, or it is high for some reason, I consider that bump this thing, man.

Scott Benner 13:39
So you use the words as strength. And I use the misdirection. Yeah. Oh, isn't that interesting? I

Jennifer Smith, CDE 13:46
use that because I've always like I said, bump and nudge are a little like a little nudge is like, it's more like friendly, where the bump is like, Man Get out of my way. Like, whoa,

Scott Benner 13:56
I gotcha. I understand. Okay, no, this is wonderful. No, I love this conversation.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 14:01
I am a visual learner i That's how I think of things to which I think is the reason that I really liked your example of the tug of war. Yeah, because in my mind, I probably had thought about it, almost like that. But I didn't really define

Scott Benner 14:14
words to it. I literally speak and picture sometimes. I know my wife whose brain does not work like that. You should see her and I tried to tell each other how to get to somewhere in our car. It's fascinating. I lay it out. And she goes, I don't know what you're talking about. That she tells me and I'm like, I can't follow what you're saying. Yeah, it really is fascinating. Yeah. So tug of war, to me is, you know, you're going to be inclined to think of it as a meal Bolus, but I apply it to everything I applied to basil. I applied to meal Bolus is corrections. Anytime you're using insulin, there is a tug of war at play. Hmm, that's it. Okay. Thank you. I appreciate that.

Unknown Speaker 14:55
Absolutely. That was good. All right.

Scott Benner 14:57
So I think And because we only have a couple of minutes left,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 15:02
are you the direction giver like I am, that's like, The Red House three blocks from here, take a right. And then when you get a little further, where there's the gas station that used to be, but now it's all burned down. Now you take a left, those are my directions. My husband's the one who taught me to read a map, right? Like, yes. And even still, when I do maps, I still expand it. And I'm like, is there like a McDonald's or something? Like, what should I look at? Where are the arches? Or where is the gas station? Like, where is it on the map? So I can see that where I'm turning? Oh, yes, this is an identifiable building. And that's how I know where I'm going. Yeah, I

Scott Benner 15:40
don't know, directions at all. Like, if I'm driving south or north, I have no idea. Like, it's not important to me, like, you know, and I don't know, like, I'm like drive, like, you know, for a couple of minutes, and then make a left here. And then and she's very specific about it. Like, like, it's really interesting, although, I don't know if it matters now. My son's 24. He doesn't almost drive anywhere without his nav on. Oh, really? Yeah. I'm like, Do you know where you're at? And he's like, the thing knows, and I'm like, okay, art is completely different art. No getting a car at like, seven at night. She'll be like, I'm gonna go drive around. And then she'll come home at like, 11. And she'd be like, there's a house. And she'll like, have dug deep into the town and found a place and been very like, like learning the the landscape of it. I don't think Cole would go for a ride for fun, ever. It's interesting. How they think about it differently. Yeah, I don't even I can't even tell you how I give directions because obviously, I'm just doing it the right way.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 16:38
Yeah, I give directions just like I told you. Yeah, I tell people what to look for. What's there, the big red tree that's got half of it missing? that's those are bytes that's

Scott Benner 16:49
viable. Yeah. What if I don't see the tree though.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 16:52
You're you were not using your eyeballs. Yeah, should have been paying attention.

Scott Benner 16:55
And now you're in Minnesota. I think we're kind of done for today, to be perfectly honest with you, I'm just gonna leave you go.

diabetes diagnosis comes with a lot of new terms, and you're not going to understand most of them. That's why we made the finding diabetes, go to juicebox podcast.com, up into the menu and click on the finding diabetes, to find the series that will tell you what all of those words mean. Short, fun and informative. That's the finding diabetes, the diabetes variable series from the Juicebox Podcast goes over all the little things that affect your diabetes that you might not think about travel and exercise the hydration and even trampolines, juicebox podcast.com, go up in the menu and click on diabetes variables. And now my full conversation with Medtronic champion, Mark. Mark, how old were you when you were diagnosed with type one diabetes? I was 2828. How old are you now? 4747. So just about 20 years?

David 18:09
Yeah, 19 years?

Scott Benner 18:11
What was your management style when you were diagnosed?

David 18:13
I use injections for about six months. And then my endocrinologist at a navy recommended a pump.

Scott Benner 18:19
How long had you been in the Navy? See eight years up to that point? Eight years? Yeah. I've interviewed a number of people who have been diagnosed during service and most of the time they're discharged. What happened to you?

David 18:31
I was medically discharged. Yeah, six months after my diagnosis.

Scott Benner 18:35
I don't understand the whole system. Is that like, honorable? Yeah.

David 18:38
I mean, essentially, if you get a medical discharge, you get a commensurate honorable discharge. I guess there could be cases where something other than that, but that's that's really how it happened. So it's an honorably discharged with but because of medical reasons,

Scott Benner 18:50
and that still gives you access to the VA for the rest of your life. Right?

David 18:53
Correct. Yeah, exactly.

Scott Benner 18:54
Do you use the VA for your management?

David 18:56
I used to up until a few years ago, when we moved to North Carolina, it just became untenable, just the rigmarole and process to kind of get all the things I needed. You know, for diabetes management, it was far easier just to go through a private practice.

Scott Benner 19:10
Was it your goal to stay in the Navy for your whole life, your career? It was? Yeah,

David 19:13
yeah. In fact, I think a few months before my diagnosis, my wife and I had that discussion about, you know, staying in for the long term. And, you know, we made the decision despite all the hardships and time away from home, that was what we love the most. So that's what made it that much more difficult

Scott Benner 19:30
was the Navy a, like a lifetime goal of yours or something you came to as an adult?

David 19:34
lifetime goal. I mean, as my earliest childhood memories were flying being a fighter pilot and specifically being, you know, flying on and off aircraft carriers. So, you know, watching Top Gun in the 80s certainly was a catalyst

Scott Benner 19:47
for that you've taken off and landed a jet on an aircraft carrier 100 times. Is there anything in life as exhilarating as that? No, but

David 19:56
there there's a roller coaster I rode at Uh, I think it was at Cedar Rapids up in Cleveland Sandusky, and they've got this roller coaster rotation from zero to like It's like 80 or something, you go up a big hill and you come right back down. So the acceleration is pretty similar I would say to catapult shot, I'm

Scott Benner 20:14
gonna guess you own a Tesla.

David 20:17
I don't I I'm a boring guy, I got a hybrid rav4 I get made fun of I get called, you know, my, my wife says I drive like a grandpa. I'm a five miles per hour over the speed limit person. And no more than that. So yeah, in the car. I'm boring Scott. So

Scott Benner 20:31
you've never felt a need to try to replace that with something else.

David 20:35
You can't replace it. It's irreplaceable. That's what I thought. So up until the point where someone you know, buys me an F 18 or allows me to get inside a two seater and fly it you can't replace it? How did

Scott Benner 20:45
it make you feel when you saw or maybe you haven't seen? gentleman named Pietro has his large aircraft license. He's flying for a major carrier. Now he has type one diabetes. Does that feel hopeful to you?

David 20:56
Yeah, it does. You know, when I when I was diagnosed, that wasn't a possibility. The FAA prohibited commercial pilots who had type one diabetes, but I think it was 2017 when they changed their rules to allow type one diabetics to be commercial pilots. And part of the reason they did that was because of the technology advancements, specifically in pump therapy and pump management. So I don't have any aspirations of going to the commercial airlines. But one of my sons who has type one diabetes very much wants to be a commercial pilot. So, you know, in that respect, I'm very hopeful and thankful. Yeah.

Scott Benner 21:28
Do you fly privately now for pleasure?

David 21:31
I do. Yeah, one of my favorite things to do is fly my kids to the different soccer tournaments they have all over the southeast us. So last week, my wife and I and two of our boys flipped to Richmond for their soccer tournaments up there. And Charlie, who's my middle child has type one diabetes. So you know if I can combine flying family and football and one weekend to me that's I think I've just achieved Valhalla.

Scott Benner 21:55
So then it sounds to me like this diagnosis was a significant course correction for you. Can you tell me how it affected your dream?

David 22:02
Well, I you know, if I guess three words come to mind first, it was devastating. Everything I had done in life, everything I'd worked up to up to that point was just taken away in an instant. And I was not prepared for that at all. The second emotion was, it was scary. I hadn't thought much about life outside the Navy, certainly not life as anything else, but a fighter pilot. And Heather and I were getting ready to move to France, I was going to do an exchange tour with with the French naval air force. So we're taking French classes. So pretty quickly, I had to reinvent myself. And then probably the most important thing at the same time that all that was going on, I had to learn how to deal with type one diabetes, and how to manage it effectively. The third thing that pops into my mind, I guess, is challenging, you know, new daily routines, I had to establish first with injections, and then eventually, you know, through pump management, and then learning how to count carbs and recognize highs and lows, how my body reacts to blood sugar trends based on exercise and stress and those types of things. And my goal at that time, and it still is today is to leverage technology and make sure my habit patterns are effective so that I take diabetes management from the forefront to the background.

Scott Benner 23:09
Have you had success with that? Do you feel like you've made the transition? Well,

David 23:13
I have I mean, I believe in continuous improvement. So there's always more to do. I will say the technology since I was diagnosed specifically with pump management, it's just, it's just incredible. It takes less of me intervening. And it's really done by the pump itself and by the algorithms through the CGM EMS. And to me again, that that should be the goal for everybody is to not have to focus so much on the daily aspects of type one, diabetes management, you know, we should let technology do that for us.

Scott Benner 23:42
What else have you found valuable? I've spoken to 1000s of people with type one diabetes, the one thing that took me by surprise, because I don't have type one, myself, and my daughter was very young when she was diagnosed. I didn't really understand until I launched this podcast, and then it grew into this kind of big Facebook presence. I heard people say, I don't know anybody else who has type one diabetes. I wish I knew more people. But until I saw them come together, I didn't recognize how important it was. Yeah,

David 24:11
I think similarly, I didn't know anyone with type one diabetes growing up as an adult up until when I was diagnosed. And then all the sudden people just came out of the woodwork. And when CGM is first hit the market, certainly within the last five years. It's amazing to me and my family, how many people we've noticed with type one diabetes simply because you can see the CGM on their arm. I mean, I would say a month does not go by where we don't run into someone at a restaurant or an amusement park or a sporting event or somewhere where we see somebody else with type one diabetes. And the other surprising aspect of that is just how quickly you make friends. And I'll give you an example. We're at a soccer tournament up in Raleigh, this past Saturday and Sunday, and the referee came over to me My son Charlie at the end of the game and said, Hey, I noticed you're wearing pomp. And he lifted up a shirt and showed his pump as well and said, I've had type one diabetes since I was nine years old. I played soccer in college, I'm sure that's your aspiration. And I just want to tell you don't let type one diabetes ever stop you from achieving your dreams of what you want to do. And it's the other man was probably in his late 50s, or 60s. So just having that connection and seeing, you know, the outreach and people's willingness to share their experiences. It just means the world to us and just makes us feel like we're part of a strong community. Yeah.

Scott Benner 25:31
So would you say that the most important things are strong technology tools, understanding how to manage yourself and a connection to others? Yeah,

David 25:40
technology for sure. And knowing how to leverage it, and then the community and that community is your friends, your family, caregivers, you know, for me, the Medtronic champions community, you know, all those resources that are out there to, you know, help guide the way but then help help you keep abreast on you know, the new things that are coming down the pike, and to give you hope for eventually, you know, that we can find a cure, you

Scott Benner 26:02
mentioned that your son wanted to be a pilot, he also has type one diabetes, how old was he when he was diagnosed,

David 26:08
so Henry was diagnosed when he was 12 years old. That was just at the start of COVID, we are actually visiting my in laws in Tennessee, we woke up in the morning, and he had his bed. And several years before that, we had all four of our boys tested for trial net. So you know, predictor of whether or not they're going to develop type one diabetes, and whether or Henry and one of his brothers tested positive for a lot of the indicators. So we always kind of had an inclination that there was a high degree of possibility he would develop it. But we always had at the back of our mind as well. And so when that event happened, at the beginning of COVID, we had him take his blood sugar on my glucometer. And it was over 400. And so right away, we knew that without even being diagnosed properly, by endocrinologist that he was a type one diabetic, so we hurried home, to get him properly diagnosed in Charlottesville. And then we just started the process, first grieving, but then acceptance, and, you know, his eventual, becoming part of the team that nobody wants to join,

Unknown Speaker 27:11
how old is he now?

David 27:12
He's 15 years old. Now,

Scott Benner 27:14
when's the first time he came to you? And said, Is this going to stop me from flying almost

David 27:20
immediately. So like me, he always had aspirations of flying. In fact, he out of all four boys wanted to be in the military, that was a difficult part of the conversation, and maybe something that we don't talk about as a community. But there are some things you cannot do as a type one diabetic, and that's a hard fact of life. And unfortunately, joining the military is one of those hard and fast things you cannot be, you cannot join the military as a type one diabetic. So it was very difficult for him and for me and my wife to get over. Then we also started talking about being a commercial pilot. And so I saw that same excitement in his eyes because like me, you know, he can be an NFA teen or a 737 or a Cirrus SR 20 That I fly and be just as happy. So he still has that passion today and still very much plans to eventually become a commercial pilot.

Scott Benner 28:05
I appreciate your sharing that with me. Thank you. You have four children do any others have type one?

David 28:10
They do? My oldest twin Henry has type one diabetes, and my middle son Charlie has type one diabetes as well. The boys are twins. The oldest two are twins. One has type one diabetes. My middle son, who is not a twin has type one diabetes.

Scott Benner 28:24
I see. Is there any other autoimmune in your family? There isn't

David 28:27
I'm really the only person in my family or my wife's family that we know of with any sort of autoimmune disease, certainly type one diabetes. So unfortunately, I was the first to strike it rich and unfortunately pass it along to to my sons, but

Scott Benner 28:42
celiac thyroid, anything like that. Not at all, nothing. We're

David 28:46
really a pretty healthy family. So this came out of nowhere for myself and for my two sons. That's really

Scott Benner 28:52
something. I appreciate your time very much. I know I appreciate your sharing this with me. Thank you very much. Anytime Scott, learn more about the Medtronic champion community at Medtronic diabetes.com/juice box or by searching the hashtag Medtronic champion on your favorite social media platform. If you're not already subscribed, or following in your favorite audio app, please take the time now to do that. It really helps the show and get those automatic downloads set up so you never miss an episode. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast. The episode you just heard was professionally edited by wrong way recording. Wrong way recording.com

#1219 137 and Counting

Erin is 44 years old and was diagnosed last year after being misdiagnosed as a type 2 since 2014.

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