#989 Pecking Order

September 1, 2023Scott Benner

Kevin is 52 years old and was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes at 45 years old.

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Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends and welcome to episode 989 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Today on the show, I was speaking with Kevin, he's a 52 year old. Kevin is 52 diagnosed at 45 with adult onset type one diabetes, and he tested negative for antibodies. And that's something Okay, he's healthy guy a hiker. He's blindsided by the diagnosis. He also has Raynaud's. And he farms his own chickens and pigs for food. I love this episode Kevin's terrific, you're gonna love it too. Arden calls in the middle of it. Don't think you hear her voice. What else? No, nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice. Medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan, or becoming bold with insulin. Don't forget to go to contour next.com forward slash juice box to get one of those contour meters and Second Chance test strips. use the offer code juicebox at checkout at cozy earth.com to save 40% off your entire order. And please find the private Facebook group for the Juicebox Podcast Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes on Facebook

this episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by us med you can get your diabetes supplies the same way we do from us med get your free benefits check now by calling 888-721-1514 Or go to us med.com. Forward slash juice box once again, that's us med.com forward slash juice box or 888-721-1514 Get your diabetes supplies the way we do from us med.

Kevin 2:04
My name is Kevin, I am an adult onset type one diabetic. I am antibody negative by a number of different tests. And a longtime listener first time caller.

Scott Benner 2:19
I don't think anybody's ever said that before. Well, okay, Kevin. So wait a minute. So how old were you when you were diagnosed?

Kevin 2:25
45

Scott Benner 2:26
Holy No.

Kevin 2:28
52 this year?

Scott Benner 2:30
Really? You look terrific. Well,

Kevin 2:33
thank you. Absolutely. I told the doctor, they had the wrong guy.

Scott Benner 2:38
I met you don't look like you're 52 or anywhere near and actually. But it is the it's the blessing of your hair staying dark. Yes, it really is. I have it to

Kevin 2:47
having a full head of IT. Yeah, lucky.

Scott Benner 2:51
People look at you. And they're like, What do you like? 40? And I'm like, Yeah, that's right. I'm 40.

Kevin 2:55
I'll take it.

Scott Benner 2:57
No problem. Sounds good to me. So you were born a year before I was. Okay. So what did you mean, you don't have any anybody's How have you been tested.

Kevin 3:06
So I don't remember the details it was seven years ago. But I remember having the standard antibody test. And I was antibody negative, which meant there were no antibodies present at the time of my diagnosis. The doctor or the endo said, Hey, there's another test that's more sensitive or more accurate or something. And I had that run. And that came back antibody negative again, and I want to say maybe a year later, they did it again just to check and see if anything had shown up.

Scott Benner 3:40
But they're very confident you're a type one.

Kevin 3:43
Yeah, body produces. You know, I had a little bit of a honeymoon period for a couple of years, but my body produces below the minimum recordable amount of insulin on the what is it the creatine test or whatever they do?

Scott Benner 3:56
See peptide. Yeah, sorry. Creatine, are you lifting for bulk as well? No. I'm not either. Was there any indication that something like this could have happened as far as like family history goes?

Kevin 4:11
I gotta tell you this really blindsided me and, and it's one of the reasons I wanted to come on the show because I felt so adrift and lost and clueless. So I really have no family history, a paternal great grandfather had what they called the sugars back, you know, at the turn of the last century. Yeah, right. Right. And that's the close and I have I have a cousin. That's a type one diabetic, but he has been since he was a kid. But other than that, like I've always been a really active person. I've always eaten better than most people. I know. I'm not like a food Nazi. But I always ate three squares. I always ate from the three food groups, right and I tend to be a runner hiker biker kind of person. I'm not you know triathlete obsessive person but I get my kicks and really enjoy staying active. I take the stairs two at a time I park as far away as I can walk everywhere. So

Scott Benner 5:11
at 45 Is it fair to say you hadn't been sick in your life much?

Kevin 5:15
Not with anything like this, I started getting some exercise induced asthma and my 30s and a little bit of Raynaud's because I'm an old Ice Climber. And I had froze my hands a couple of times. So two auto immune kind of things started popping up in my 30s. So yeah, this really hit me like a ton of bricks. I have no family history. I'm not like a soda or a junk food guy. Yeah, stay inactive. It was kind of crazy.

Scott Benner 5:42
And it's your I can tell by the way you're talking about your connection, like mentally to diabetes is around, like health and what you consume until this happens to you. And now I assume you think like, wow, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's autoimmune. So how about other autoimmune stuff in your family? Thyroid, celiac, stuff like that. So there is

Kevin 6:07
nothing, I think. I think there's a couple Yeah, my brother. No, my brother's good. My mom, I think has a slightly underactive thyroid, but that didn't happen until later in life for her.

Scott Benner 6:22
Did they ever tell her if hers was autoimmune? Do they call it Hashimotos?

Kevin 6:26
They did not know Hashimotos. And I don't remember her ever talking about it. Okay. I mean, the only the only the only other thing I could say is my dad got Alzheimer's, and I've heard that called diabetes type three, right? It's sort of an insulin resistance to the brain. I don't know how much that plays into things. Yeah. I

Scott Benner 6:46
mean, I've heard about it talked. I've heard about it talked about, like an inflammation issue too. So yeah, or so. It's there. It's just it's hard to see really. Now do you have children?

Kevin 6:58
I do. I'm proud dad for oh, my gosh.

Scott Benner 7:01
Well, your penis works on. All right. So

Kevin 7:06
well, if the first three were adopted,

Scott Benner 7:07
Oh, okay. Never. I'm sorry. I'm gonna be nevermind.

Kevin 7:13
It wasn't me. So they tell me but that's all right. That's

Scott Benner 7:15
interesting. You adopted three and then and then had one? Surprise Yeah. Oh, so it wasn't happening. You guys know what

Kevin 7:25
it was? And we kept getting pregnant, but it would never stick, honestly. And it was it was a tough road. And we thought we would always adopt but then we decided we need to adopt because we really wanted to be parents. You

Scott Benner 7:37
Oh, well. First of all, let me apologize for my snarky remark.

Kevin 7:42
It's funny. I get a kick out of it. That easy assumption to make right now. Yeah.

Scott Benner 7:46
Wow. That's interesting. So how old are your kids?

Kevin 7:49
I have the youngest is about to turn 11. I have twins that are 16. And my oldest just turned 18.

Scott Benner 7:57
Wow. Are the 18 is the 18 year old and the twins. Are they related? No, no. Okay. No. But the twins are definitely related.

Kevin 8:07
I'm just That's right. Our oldest was international adoption, and our twins were domestic adoption.

Scott Benner 8:14
Okay. Now, do you have your youngest tested for anybody's Have you thought about that? No. No. Okay. So I mean,

Kevin 8:23
we're, he's kind of young, we're certainly aware of it. And I think it's my wife works in the healthcare industry. She's a primary care kind of person, provider. And so I know she watches us, you know, health wise for all that kind of testing and so on. She's a big believer in early diagnosis.

Scott Benner 8:45
See you you mentioned at the beginning, then feeling adrift after all this happened. So I would like to hear about that.

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Kevin 11:28
Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, for for about a year or so I just felt amazingly low energy which wasn't like me. Like I said, I tend to be a pretty high energy kind of go get him guy. excitable and all that. And I, I didn't know what was going on. We my wife would tell me I don't understand. You never want to do anything. You just want to sit on the couch. And I just remember being like, you know, maybe this is what people mean about getting old. This must be what the 40s is finally hitting me or you know what people talked about when once you turn 30 It's all downhill. I didn't know what people meant. Yeah. And, and so I started getting leg cramps, right? The billet waking me up at night, and I've run. I've paced people and ultra marathons in the desert. I know what leg cramps are. And I tried treating them with my normal little tricks have electrolytes and I'm always real good about hydrating and stuff. And they didn't go away after three, four weeks or waking me up. And I wake up in the morning feeling like I sprinted Hills all night long. I'm like, What is this? Yeah, and I went to the doc and they pulled some blood and they said, Wow, you know, your sodium is a little high. Your potassium is a little low or whatever, but they're within range. And, and what's crazy is your blood sugar. Your you got a 12.2 a one C? Oh my gosh. Yeah. And you need to go see the endocrinologist tomorrow?

Scott Benner 12:59
Yeah. Well, it's interesting. When you're a kid, they send you to the ER, and when you're an adult, they're like, just go find a doctor. Well, yeah,

Kevin 13:07
clearly if my once he was at high, had some high blood sugar for a little while. Yeah, you know, then things started making sense. You know, and initially, I was diagnosed as a type two because I wasn't antibody negative. And then I couldn't get like a CGM. I couldn't get a pump, and all that kind of stuff. So I changed then those and it did hit me hard, though. It was like what, you know, what did I do? I immediately thought I must have done something. Right. started trying to think about, you know, the hereditary side of things. Is it in my family somewhere that I haven't discovered? And that's when I heard about my great grandfather, but it was really. So I came home that night, the next day from the endocrinologist and I told my kids and I said, Hey, you know, this is weird, but I promise you pull up a chair and watch the movie, because I'm gonna kick diabetes ass. Alright, this is a challenge that I can manage, and, and overcome. So let's, you know, it's gonna be different for me, but then I remember for a while it would bug me like when the grandparents would give the kids the basket a candy when they showed up at their house. I'd be like, ah, what are they doing? And I grew up with like a scratch baking. Mom who worked in a third generation bakery, right? Miss my baked goods. And my wife's family was a they supply industrial bakeries. They ran a trucking company, right? She grew up baking and just she didn't get I tried to solve it. You know, nutritionally, I was like, Man, I'm gonna, I think I started on like, 12 units a day of like long acting insulin, and I do a little bit of meal time.

Scott Benner 14:57
That was the beginning. And you were where you are. limiting carbs,

Kevin 15:01
not not being they told you eat 30 grams a meal or something, I think is what I was told, right? I didn't, I knew enough about nutrition to understand what carbs were and what foods had them. I didn't understand sort of glycemic index and all that jazz. The way I do now,

Scott Benner 15:19
okay, when you sat the kids down, was it you just wanted to project? Like, don't worry about this? Or were you? Were you projecting it to them? Or were you projecting it for yourself? Like you don't? I mean, like,

Kevin 15:31
Yeah, good question. You know, honestly, with, with the three older kids being adopted, I didn't want them to feel like another parental figure was not going to be there in their life. And I think you're right part of it was also for me that I needed to kind of throw out the challenge and rise to the occasion.

Scott Benner 15:55
So how do you do? I mean, I don't know what kind of direction you got from your physician. But was it enough to get you going?

Kevin 16:04
Yeah, yeah. I mean, they taught me enough for the basics. And I wasn't getting the results I liked. I was like, Oh, this is kind of all over the map. I don't know how to do this. And I hadn't heard your podcast. Yeah. I was very sheepish about insulin. I was I was convinced that pump companies were, you know that the pharmaceutical industry did not have my best interests at heart, and that they were out there to just sell insulin and make a ton of money. And I still believe that to a certain extent. But I'm not quite as cynical about it. And, and so I was trying to minimize my insulin intake. And I started, I think I use the Zone Diet, because I heard that was a diet built to stabilize your endocrine system. And that was just like, always doing math always, like tons of nutritional research at every meal. It was arduous. So after about three or four months, keto had sort of started catching on, and I'm like, Oh, this is the answer. Why am I pouring gas on the fire? Okay, why don't I let the fire burn, but I don't need to add fuel to it. So I tried that. And that was cool. But that that was the hard part. Right? I never, that's when I started feeling really isolated, honestly. Because it was really this is, you know, six years ago, right? keto was was sort of a little bit of a blog thing. But it wasn't what it is nowadays. You couldn't find keto products at Costco or right. Yeah, you know, the supermarket or anything and, and I remember my wife looking at me, like you are crazy, and my endo telling me you know, you can't fast you're a diabetic you need to eat and it was just like, Man, this is bizarre.

Scott Benner 17:39
Yeah, definitely fast. That's yeah, I mean, if your insulin,

Kevin 17:43
you gotta know how you got to know how to do it, you can't give yourself insulin like you're going to eat. And then that's not the way I like to play.

Scott Benner 17:54
Take him. And you just said something that made me like, made me think about something I'd never thought about before. That, as an adult, you might look up and think, Oh, I see. Now I have diabetes, and the man is going to take advantage of me. And they're going to sell me their insulin and their pumps. And they're this and that. And I never, that's makes a lot of sense. And yet never occurred to me before that that would be a situation. But when you said it, I just thought I can see how someone would think that.

Kevin 18:25
I'll tell you a year into it. I was like, the ADEA is broken, modern endocrinology is broken, I can't believe they're telling me, this is such a terrible disease to have, feel bad for yourself, eat what you want, covered with insulin. And give you very little guidance around how to do that, right, like your podcast, not trying to plug you but I have to give you credit where credit is due. And it really helped me understand the basics of Pre-Bolus ng, it gave me the courage to be a little bold with insulin because you're like, man, unless you really mess up and give yourself like 50 units, you can always save yourself with a juice box. Right?

Scott Benner 19:06
Well, it just was pretty cool. No, I appreciate that. I think it's interesting that established lines of communication, establishment lines of communication, we'll say the first part that like, don't you worry, you just do whatever you like, don't change your life, like you can handle this with insulin, but then there's no second part that says, and this is how that happens. You know, they just they just say you can do it. And then knowing full well, by the way that most people are going to fail at it. When they're trying in the beginning. They don't know enough about it. Their settings are probably wrong. Like they're just they're too new at it to get it right. So you tell somebody, don't worry about it. You don't have to change anything about your diet. Just use insulin, but we're not going to tell you how to use insulin, then you have a failure and then there's a pathway you decide it's a fork in the road. Well, I'm either going to limit my carbs because that didn't work or I'm going I need to keep eating the way I was eating and just assume that well, this is just diabetes, my blood sugar is going to be high. It's just it's it's just interesting that they're willing to say so much of the first part of that statement, but not give you the rest of it. You don't I mean,

Kevin 20:12
yeah, I agree. It's, it's sort of a minimalist approach to the care that it takes to manage it. Well, they

Scott Benner 20:21
give you half the information. And it's the half that will hurt you if you don't understand the second half. But it won't hurt you right now to hurt you later. So that's not on them. But they won't tell you but they won't tell you how to Pre-Bolus. Because if you do it wrong and get really low, well, then you're gonna go back and say, well, the you know, this, these people told me to do this. And look what ended up happening to me. It's, it's half assed at best. So yeah, well, I'm glad it helps. So how do you find a podcast?

Kevin 20:48
Yeah, that's a good question. I can't remember where I heard about you guys, probably through Facebook or something. Okay. I honestly don't remember. I was listening to a lot of podcasts and stuff back then I might have heard your name through something else or a web search?

Scott Benner 21:05
What made you look for? I mean, what what roadblock Did you hit that you thought, well, I have to go find other people on Facebook or something like that.

Kevin 21:14
I live in a pretty rural part of the Northeast, I'll say, and, and so like, sounds like in our local system, there's a type two support group, you could join through the hospital. But there was really nothing for type ones. I didn't know any type ones. I felt totally like, Man, how do you do this? And I'm sort of a thirst for knowledge, kind of eternal student, mindset person. And so I was always hungry for knowledge, and figured out you know, that this is, I'm new at this, I gotta figure this out. I want to get better. You know, within six months, I think I had my one C down to five and a half. Well, and I generally, for the most part, keep it below six, right? Yeah. If I look at time and range stuff, I'm usually as far as the ADA standards. I'm I'm usually 90% range

Scott Benner 22:06
between 70 and 180.

Kevin 22:08
Yeah, exactly. And it takes a lot of work and vigilance. And it's like a part time job, you don't get a day off of the way I kind of see it. It's also made me a much healthier person. I'm super, super, you know, concerned with, I raise all my own meat. We Yeah, we raised our own pork chicken in Turkey. We have layer hens that give us eggs. And that's kind of fun. So I pay a lot of it's ate a lot of meat and vegetables, I still avoid carbs. I don't eat starchy vegetables are not much in the way of sugar. And I have to tell you in grains,

Scott Benner 22:49
I'm forever confused about how things come together. Yesterday, my interview was with a woman who owns a farm in Washington State. And, you know, cattle, pigs, chickens. And as she's saying that to me, I thought, Oh, that was interesting. No one's ever said that to me before. And 24 hours later, you're like, Well, you know, like, we raised our own poultry. I'm like, wait, what? How was that possible?

Kevin 23:16
Chicken are quick and easy. They're about 10 1011 weeks, and they're done. The pigs are about six months. I've never done beef because I don't. I'm pretty active in the winter. I love to snowboard. And when you want to grow beef big, you have to winter them and I don't want to spend my time mucking out stalls and taking care of

Scott Benner 23:33
doing all the big animals. Have you always done that? Like what else

Kevin 23:37
is new? Where I grew up in like the Metro New York area? I'm what you call a hobby farmer. I'm a Flatlander that moved to the mountains. And it's been about 10 years.

Scott Benner 23:47
Wow, that's crazy. So did you see when kids in the city and you moved everybody?

Kevin 23:53
We Yeah, we lived actually out in Utah for a while in the desert because there are bigger mountains out there and more snow and fun stuff and rock climbing and all that we moved back east to get closer to grandparents that we couldn't get to relocate. Right you spend all your disposable income visiting family and not vacationing, right? It's a different, right. So you came bearing fruit. So we came back and we're foodies. I'm married to. I'm married to a French Canadian, right? I'm Italian. It's like foods or religion in our house. And so I was at a friend's house and we had this chicken dinner. I was like, Damn, it's the best chicken I've ever had. Right? And it wasn't like the actual recipe. It was like, Man, this is like, tender, juicy and flavorful. And he's like, Yeah, we grow it. I'm like what? And he wasn't from like a farming background or anything. And I was like, wow, so I figured it out

Scott Benner 24:50
right now. My father would tell me that his dad worked at a place where at the end of the week, this is a long time ago. Obviously you if you were Well, that we your bonus was a live chicken on Friday. Wow. So my, my grandfather, who I'd never met would apparently come home, he tossed the chicken over the fence, like into the yard, and my grandmother would come out. And you know, these are not butcher it, they, she'd ring. She'd wring its neck and pluck it and make it. You know, my dad would tell me that, and we were just far enough removed. Like, I'm your age, I'd be like, I don't know what you're saying, man. Like, that's crazy. But it was like a regular part of his life. And so,

Kevin 25:34
I don't I do the butchering. I don't do the slaughtering. I hire a couple of people. I did slaughter my own pigs once or twice. It's a lot of work, honestly. And I'd rather be doing other things. So

Scott Benner 25:44
yeah, well, that's interesting. So you live in a place where you can have somebody come to your property to do it, or do you take the animals to them?

Kevin 25:51
You can do it either way. But I have people come to us and just take care of it.

Scott Benner 25:55
I'm fascinated by that. Okay. Alright, so how are you managing? What are you are using a pump? Um, yeah.

Kevin 26:02
So you know, thanks to you. Honestly, I found looping. Oh, no kidding. So I became a looper with the old Riley link with the little screw cap covers on him. Yeah. And then, so so that's what got me into the pumps, I found a diabetic educator that convinced me she's like, you might even be able to cut your insulin down with a pump. Because the long acting might, you know, my honeymoon was waning with the insulin production. So I started using this at the same time I found looping. So I'm like, I'm gonna do this. And all together. I got looping. And by then I the new, the new endo situation I was in, had classified me as a type one. She's like, you're just not producing insulin. So you might as well, I'm just gonna say you're type one. You're really a one and a half. Right?

Scott Benner 26:50
Did they use the word Lada? Yeah, they

Kevin 26:53
did. But yeah, so I've been looping ever since I'm on an orange link now. And I am just, I've been sort of off the reservation for a while, as far as looping goes for information. And I just realized, I got the email that the arrows is going away at the end of the year, they're not going to make it or whatever anymore. And I just learned that the what is it the dash, right means you don't need to carry the Reilly link or the orange line,

Scott Benner 27:22
you could you could get dash pods and loop three, and you'd be you'd be able to do it. That's what Arden's doing now.

Kevin 27:28
And I haven't updated my loop so long, because my, my Mac laptop got so old, it won't update to the new operating

Scott Benner 27:36
system. That way, you're gonna have to pack up the wagon and go into town and find another one.

Kevin 27:40
I have to well, you could I guess you could force update your Mac, it may run a little slower. But I've found that like I actually again, thanks to you, I hired Integrated diabetes to teach me how to use and set up my link. Really Riley in my looping because I didn't want to deal with it. I'm like, got too much going on. And for young kids and just life going crazy.

Scott Benner 28:04
And it was working. And it's working. Right. So yeah, it's

Kevin 28:07
working. Working. Great. Working. Great. Good. So I'm going to switch to the new loop three and the dash system and not have to carry the link around which will be nice. Yeah. And see how that goes. You know,

Scott Benner 28:20
you know, it's interesting, because you have a, you have a slower way of talking. So you're drawing me into your pace. And it's giving me more time to think about what you're saying. And this is probably more than you care about, about what's going on in my head. But there's a reason I'm telling you. I don't normally spend time thinking, oh, there's a guy and he has four kids and a wife, and he raises his own chickens. And his health is where it is partially because of something the podcast did. It's too heavy to think about. So I usually just roll through it. But I don't know there's something about the conversation with you that's allowing me to slow down and feel it and I'm having a much more like emotional response to what you're saying than I usually do. I'm usually just like, ah, yeah, that's great. Good for you. And we're happy. We're glad glad it helped, you know, I don't know what it is. Maybe also, I don't usually do video. So like looking at you is obvious, but like humanizing you more. And you know, yeah. And I'm and I'm sitting here and I'm like, Oh my gosh, like I did a thing and this guy's life is better. And it's just very it's I don't know how he's, I guess the only thing is I'm coming up with like, I'm having my having trouble. Like, you'd think that would be something I got past this is like the ninth year I've been doing this but

Kevin 29:38
yeah, I know. I look at a guy like you. I can remember hearing I think your podcasts I don't know, five years ago or whatever. When I started looping and you were like, I want to your taglines back then was like, I need you guys to do this so that I can stop doing this podcast. I forget exactly what you were saying. But

Scott Benner 29:58
well, yeah, you guys I'll figure it out, then I could stop doing this. And, but then more and more people came, you know, close to 300 people a week join the Facebook group. And they're just, it's just new people constantly, like coming in the podcast, it leapt up this, it's pretty consistent the way it happens, like you get a Well, not everybody does. But I get a surge in December. And then I get a leap in January. And so every year, it jumps up. But I swear to you that in 2023, I saw an increase of like, 3000 downloads a day, which is significant, you know what I mean? Like, just a Yeah, because I think what happens is, I think the end of the year comes in, everybody kind of gets into the holidays. And they say to themselves, like, I'm gonna like when the New Year hits the calendars a big part of how people help take care of themselves, which I know is obvious, because there's new year's resolutions. I never really believed in that till I saw how the podcast grows and where it grows. It's pretty interesting.

Kevin 31:01
I think, honestly, that's a historical thing. Right? Looking back, even even before New Year's resolutions, were saying, I think there were just celebrations at the end of the year that created feasts. Yeah, yeah. And there was tough times of the year when people were scrounging

Scott Benner 31:18
it's like, Hey, we got through, now it starts again. Now it's time for me to address things. So anyway, long way of saying, I don't see how I can possibly stop making the podcast. Apparently, I'm gonna have to make it, you know, right up until the end. But I enjoy it a lot. So that's fine. And we do find new things to talk about, like, I got a little behind on content for Jenny. So Jenny, and I are we're making a new series. So I don't want to start putting it out till I have enough of it where I know I won't miss a week. Right? So so I didn't have like a management kind of episode this week. And I contacted Erica, she's the therapist that comes on who has type one? And I said, Hey, can you come on and talk about guilt and shame. I have this post in the Facebook group where people have been really open about how they've experienced that, let's go through those. And so we recorded that yesterday, I put it up last night, which is not the norm for me. And this morning, there's a gentleman in there talking about like a revelation he had from listening to that, and it's just Oh, it's just very interesting to see that you're there are other ways to help people with diabetes that aren't necessarily, you know, Pre-Bolus thing and that kind of stuff.

Kevin 32:28
You know, I have to tell you, bringing up guilt and shame that I was certainly full of that, right? Because you feel like you're failing on your mission. If you throw yourself out there to your kids, I'm gonna take care of this and then you're not getting the results you want or you don't know what to expect. Right? I'll tell you one of the biggest things that helped me was stumbling into that diatribe organization. Sure. Right, and that Adam Brown had put that book out for free the variables book right yeah. Oh my word that so many so many pieces to that. I felt like how is every endo in the world not handing people this book? When you go in Bright's, why am I getting that silly food values book? I first get diagnosed

Scott Benner 33:19
he took him It took me a minute to come up with it. But Adam's book is called bright spots and landmines. That's right, right. And he's a type one he's been on the program he wrote the book and diatribe distributes it for free. I think

Kevin 33:32
they used to be amazed if they still didn't think you had to pay like four bucks for shipping on what did it I'm looking at right now. Really helpful. You know,

Scott Benner 33:41
free PDF on Amazon for six bucks Kindle for to listen to an audiobook audiobook free on diatribe or purchase it on Audible Amazon or iTunes. You they I mean are obviously motivated to just put it in people's hands. A same thing for Canadians, UK, Australia. There's links here diatribe.org gets right at the top.

Kevin 34:01
Yeah, that and reading, you know, just read them on their daily or whatever, their weekly email, there's always good inspiration that they've put out. But that book, more than anything, I think really helped me deal with some guilt and shame issues around it. That's excellent.

Scott Benner 34:16
Yeah, he loved to know that. That organization is run by some really smart people.

Kevin 34:22
I emailed him and thanked him and I even got like a list. I was like, I'm gonna try and help you put your book out there. I mean, do I can build email campaigns email and though offices and tell them about this resource. I you know, I started evangelizing it as best as I could.

Scott Benner 34:39
That's lovely. What do you do for a living like what kind of

Kevin 34:42
work? I am a corporate recruiter. Okay.

Scott Benner 34:45
So, you know,

Kevin 34:46
I was I was an old traveling sales reps in the outdoor industry for a long time. And when when the family started getting bigger, I needed to get off the road and I found recruiting

Scott Benner 34:57
so you know how to reach people digitally, and Yeah, it's not as easy as people think. No.

Kevin 35:05
It's usually a numbers game. There's a little bit of persuasion.

Scott Benner 35:09
Yeah. Yeah, with luck. I get cold emails all day long about everything. And there are we

Kevin 35:18
all we all do this you live in a cave for that life. I want

Scott Benner 35:21
to be on your podcast, I want to, I'm a coach, I have this, I have this, I want to sell it like I gotta get on. Do you? Can you? Can I have an ad? Can I do this? Here's what I want to sell. Like, it. Just it's and my point is that there are moments when I'm deleting No, man, I'm like, I feel bad for these people. Like, I know how hard they're trying and then and but you're just like, well, this isn't right. I don't even have time to tell them that. And then if you do tell them that they take that as like, like a crack in the doors. Then they come back and they sell you again. I'm like, Oh, God, I was just trying to be polite. Alright, I'll stop that. But no, that's so did you have any luck doing that like contacting officers didn't

Kevin 36:00
get far down the road. I was in between jobs on I had reached out to and I didn't get too far. I mean, with with all the all the endo people I brushed up against I think they were really excited about it. They had heard about it but didn't, you know, like you they get assaulted with a million promotional approaches people come here to hear my dear My take on it. And what a difference it made to me was was really I think

Scott Benner 36:32
it's personal. Yeah. i People say to me all the time, like you should get the Pro Tip series or the bulb beginning series and the like doctors hands on, like, you've you know how to do that. Go ahead and do that. I think I've come away understanding is that you mentioned, it's a bit of a numbers game. And you know, I believe in the rule of 10s. Now that I have a podcast a lot, you know, you've got to reach 100 people to get 10 people to click to get one person like that, I believe in more than anything, but also just that things are are spread most effectively by real people telling another person about it. It's just, it's just the way it works. So I don't think there's a shortcut where I think everybody would be everybody's business would be amazing. And everybody would be rich if there was a shortcut to spreading information. So anyway,

Kevin 37:15
yeah, absolutely. Well, I have to say another thing that brought me huge comfort was when I first got the CGM. I remember after like a week with that thing, I got a Dexcom. I think it was a G five, then I can't remember. And I'm on the sixth now. And I was just like, why isn't everybody given one of these upon diagnosis? This is the most educational piece of equipment in the world. Like it's almost, I was pricking my finger like 10 and 12 times a day. It's like you're creating biohazard blood, like, you know, like, this is disgusting. Who wants to be near me? Right? Like, this is crazy. And you know, I'm just trying to figure out what, what makes my stuff go up or down or sideways? Yeah,

Scott Benner 38:02
yeah, the finger sticks are like when you need an accurate number. There's nothing better than an accurate meter. But sure, you're just sticking throughout the day, you're trying to imagine what a puzzle looks like, and you've got 10 of the 100 pieces of it. And it just, it just ends up being more confusing. Right? You know, because then you see, shadows, you're like, why don't I was 180 here, and I'm 70 over here. And then you make assumptions about what happened in between? And you really have no idea. So yeah, it's tough. Well, I mean, cost is obviously, and the way the healthcare system set up, right, but I think you're right, like just from an intellectual perspective, like, somebody should say to you, oh, my God, you have diabetes, this meter that you attach to your body, this glucose monitor, and that should be the conversation right there. It's going to show you what's happening. And over time, we're going to learn how food and insulin impacts you. And we're gonna make adjustments based on this information. Nothing more important than this. And instead, it's anything but so, you know, for most people.

Kevin 39:03
Yeah. I mean, it proves to me like when I don't get enough sleep, how much more insulin resistant I was, I was suspicious of that. I had heard about it, but then you see the numbers and you can Are you and there are days that I'm stressed. I have a lot going on or whatever, right? Yeah. times in my life. When I'm more stressed out, I can easily track the insulin resistance. I'm like, oh, yeah, look at that. I gotta hit it harder.

Scott Benner 39:26
I think it's interesting for people to hear it spoken about, simply that way to just the idea of, like, you know, I don't know what happened. You know, you hear people say all the time, like, I did the same thing I did yesterday, and now today is different, but they don't see everything. Like for instance, yesterday, I slept eight hours and today I slept five hours or today, I'm afraid that you know, we're all gonna go broke and die because I can't afford that. Um, you know, work is stressful and you know, all the stuff that comes with it. And then you see a 40 point rise in your blood sugar. And, you know, I don't bet See, it's brilliant. Why are you able to figure all this out? Like, what is it about how your brain works that leads you to making these like leaps, and then trusting them because I think other people see this stuff, but they don't. Sometimes they don't put it into practice, or they don't believe it. I don't know the way to say that exactly.

Kevin 40:17
My wife told me early on, and the longer I've sort of been saddled and been a type one, I get, she said, You know, I don't think you understand how lucky you are. You've got resources, right? I'm not eternally wealthy, but I'm a middle class guy, and I've got decent insurance, and I'll pay the piper for the rest of it. And then I understand, I've always been sort of a closet nutritionist, and I've always been sort of a little bit fascinated by that. And I've always been into my lifestyle. As far as being active. One of those continual improvement, kind of, nothing's ever good enough personality. You're always trying to problem solve and make something 1% Better somehow or another?

Scott Benner 41:05
Yeah. Well, I think that for me, it's, I'm obviously was motivated by my daughter's health, but at the same at the same time, I'm not good at just like, well, I guess this is good enough. Like, I don't I don't have a, I don't think I have a mechanism that stops me and just says, you know, sit down now it's okay. You know, we

Kevin 41:25
could take the next year off. Yeah, we

Scott Benner 41:27
got three quarters of the way there. Let it be.

Kevin 41:30
I've touched a million people I skip, skip it. I just mean

Scott Benner 41:33
even in like in her in her personal life, like, you know, you have a problem and you get like, oh, like when I saw the a one see when she was little, almost touched nine. And then we got it from eight to seven. Like I didn't see seven ago I did it. I was like, Well, were six. And then, you know, when I saw six, I was like, well, where's five? Right? Obviously, what we're doing is working like, let's just keep tightening the screws and see what you know, see what we can make happen here. Whereas I think, Amy, you mentioned you know, like institutions, the other you know, recently too, like if an institution tells you a sevens okay, then you get to a seven you go good. I'm done. Yeah, that's it. You know,

Kevin 42:11
another thing that I had a big influence on me was I bumped into that Dr. Bernstein book, I forget the title of it, right. But he's a guy that sort of instilled in me, you know what? I might be type one. But I have every right and every ability to normalize my blood sugar. Right? Like, there's never been a better time. There's so much technology. I mean, there's ice cream that tastes like ice cream. Chocolate that tastes like chocolate. The sweeteners are better, right? Like, the technology can inform you, it can take care of you while you're asleep. I mean, there's so many, but I was like, I believe diabetics can normalize their blood sugar. Some of us it's harder than others, for sure. But it can be done. Right. You know, that's kind of my mission. Well, I'll

Scott Benner 43:02
tell you, early on making the podcast what, what I felt like I saw more than anything, was that I had to get the information to people. And they needed to hear it without hitting some sort of a roadblock that would make them say, we'll forget this. You don't I mean, like, and I hear and I chose the idea of understand how to use insulin, and you could probably Bolus for almost anything that is does not mean I think you should like eat a half a gallon of ice cream tonight when you're like I'm gonna have an after dinner snack. Like I don't eat does not mean that I think you should have nachos and burgers and you know, fry it and live and live off of it. Yeah, and live off it constantly. I think what it what it means to me in my heart is you have a burger, like an throw some fries with it. That's great. Not every day like like, you know, like once in a while. And so I think I got, I think in some people's minds, I was the guy saying, eat whatever you want. And here's how you Bolus for it. Which is what I'm saying.

Kevin 44:06
That wasn't that wasn't your tenant though. No, no, no, it was just

Scott Benner 44:09
understand how to use insulin. But some people take it as well. I can eat whatever I want. And you can by the way, but there are going to be there's retribution coming if you decide to eat in an unhealthy way constantly. And so when people I think there are some people listening to podcasts, who would have heard you say, Oh, I read Dr. Bernstein's book or probably thought like, oh, Scott's probably gonna say something that I don't give it. Like, if you want to eat low carb. I think that's, that's amazing. You know what I mean? Like, whatever works for you. But let's not lie to ourselves about what's working. That's all. Like, if it's working, it's working. But, you know, if you're, if you eat a giant pancake at IHOP and your blood sugar's 350 for five hours afterwards, then that's not working.

Kevin 44:52
You know, it wasn't because he didn't sleep last night. Yeah, right, right.

Scott Benner 44:55
And don't get me wrong. I can Bolus for IHOP I don't know when the last Some I've been there is but like, I could figure it out. And maybe maybe everyone else could to just don't settle for less than healthy and use some sort of excuse to make it okay.

Kevin 45:13
Yeah, I'm with you. What I figured out from sort of your messaging was you kept it so sort of elegantly simple was like, it's timing and amount. Right? If you read Adam Brown's book landmines, right, there's a million he's got whatever 42 factors affect blood sugar, which is great for inquiring minds want to know that. But when you simplify it, the two things, right? Most people can digest that they can figure out alright, well, I take a little more I take a little less, or I take it earlier. Alright, take it later. Yeah. What what do I do when I do take it later earlier? Kind of, it's my

Scott Benner 45:53
expectation that you can't just say, like, I'm sure that I could sit down and come up with a list of things. And if you did all of these things, you would have considered every possibility, but that's just not how this works. You know, they mean, like, can you imagine like unfurling like a, like a scroll at the, oh, you know, what this could be? I did have a cold last week, like, you know, you're getting so,

Kevin 46:17
right, right, you'd have some giant matrix of different influences on your blood sugar, right? So

Scott Benner 46:23
you put the things into the podcast, and so that hopefully, people sort of pick them up, almost unknowingly. And so that when they get into a situation, maybe it occurs to them, and they go, oh, you know what this could be I'm not hydrated, or like, you know, whatever, it ends up being like, I don't know, I'm stressed out, or blah, blah, blah. I just, I want to say, I want to say the things enough times, in enough different ways that as many people as possible have an opportunity to absorb it come away with something that will help them. So I don't know. Hopefully, that helps. Because you've said a couple of things in your conversation, that I was like, oh, that's important. And I hope people hear that. But I mean, if I if I got you, if I got a hold of you, and I said, Hey, Kevin, just come on for five minutes. Tell me all the important things, you know, you wouldn't write couldn't do the conversations, what leads to it? You know, so, anyway, how do I let's say I want to have a chicken and I want it to give me eggs. Is that the thing I can accomplish in my life?

Kevin 47:23
Easy. It's easy. It's so strange, right? So get this chickens are born with every egg they're ever gonna lay. It's all about how quick you squeeze it out of them. No kidding. They need a certain amount of daylight to do it. Okay, right. So if I don't have where I live is pretty far north. And so if I don't have enough daylight hours, I have to put a light source on farm. And it doesn't take much. There's you know, like even Hank Williams said, Oh, my cells, backyard. You know, backyard coops you could build a coop no bigger than a dog house. You know, each chicken lays roughly an egg a day and they're good for three to five years as far as mine.

Scott Benner 48:01
My neighbors aren't going to hate me. Not unless

Kevin 48:04
you unless you have like 20 or 50 of them, right? They don't smell that bad. They'll scratch around your lawn. We have a bunch of dogs. We love animals. We have three dogs, and three cats. They eat all the insects like we basically stopped getting fleas and ticks.

Scott Benner 48:19
No kidding. Kevin, what

Kevin 48:20
about ticks especially? Yeah,

Scott Benner 48:21
Arden's calling me and she's got to go to urgent care for something. Give me a second. I apologize. Hold on. Hey, how are you? I am but I'm paused. What do you need? There's a church across the street, apparently, where you can park. You might have to go around a big block and come back again. Just keep Alright, so put it back in your nav and follow it again. Okay, and there's no street parking. Then let's find the church address for you. Because maybe that'll help you get to it. Okay, and there's a church there and you can't just turn into it. To take your time. Okay. All right. All right. I'll be done recording probably like 20 minutes. Okay. Go get checked in. By. Sorry, Arden has. She's an art school. And she's been drawing for like a week straight. And she woke up yesterday and her neck was really stiff and her shoulder was stiff. And she's like, it was bad, but it was okay. And she's like this morning I woke up and it feels like there's a rock in my shoulder and I can't turn my head and we're like, alright, well, you might need like a muscle relaxers, something like that to help you out. So this is her going to urgent care for the first time on her own. And she's not good at street parking. So she's like, there's no street parking. I can't turn my head and the place across the street. They said we could park at the church I can't figure out how to get into and then just all of a sudden she goes oh wait, I'm in. I almost killed everybody. But I'm in here now. I'm like okay, she's having it now.

Kevin 49:54
It is it is beautiful to hear your little tales. I almost feel Like I've heard her grow up a little bit listening to the podcast for years. Right? And that's strange having an 18 year old, I totally get it. Yeah, it's they call you and they're like, What do I do?

Scott Benner 50:11
And it's this morning, the text comes this morning, Hey, are you guys awake? And I said, I am. Are you checking on us? And she goes, Oh, my neck hurts. And we're like, in that feeling, Kevin, like, she's, like, 13 hours away. She's like, you know, I know she can handle this, like, she'll be okay. But she's never had to before. So she's working that out too. And, and that, that horrible feeling of like, Oh, if I was there, I can help her. And so, you know, I've just been trying to walk her through it. And I actually had a moment this morning where I thought, I felt kind of grateful. Like, it's interesting. I have no, I have no religious background, but I'll talk. Like, you'll, you'll hear me talk and think that I must. But I felt really grateful this morning that just all this technology existed in regards to like communication, like how quickly we were able to talk to each other. And then, you know, if texting wasn't adequate, we could look at each other. And like, you know, it's just really, it's a big deal. Like, because it 15 years ago, my parents would have said, or excuse me, all those years ago, when I was Arden's age, my parents would have been like, I don't know, figure it out. Right? I don't know what to tell you. Get an Amen. Now. It's like, oh, do this. There's a place up the street, you can go,

Kevin 51:25
let me look on Google Maps, I see that green sign over there on the right, exactly the Street View, and

Scott Benner 51:31
she goes, but that they don't take insurance. I said, that's fine, just pay cash, and we'll submit it to the insurance later. And even that, like being able to say that is a big deal. You know, so, anyway, she's gonna be fine, but it's,

Kevin 51:45
it's like they need they need to figure some stuff out.

Scott Benner 51:49
Oh, 100% Oh, my God, that one, cuz that's the other side of all this is that this stuff can make everything so easy. That nobody knows how to like, get into a scrap and, you know, throw some hands with life and get through it. You know, it's been very good. I was even happy. I miss my son a lot. But I'm happy that he moved out because he's, he's having experiences and figuring things out,

Kevin 52:12
spread his wings and learn how to fly on his own. So

Scott Benner 52:15
what it is right now speaking of learning how to fly the chicken won't fly away. So that I don't know worry about but I do need a offense.

Kevin 52:22
Yep, you need a fence dairy, your fence needs to be about four feet high. I wouldn't put a rail on top of it because they'd like to perch and they'll fly up to the rail, okay. And they scratch around and they pack all the stuff eight little leafy green things and they eat little critters. And they fertilize, right, so you'll have beautiful green grass.

Scott Benner 52:42
That's it. And I get a free egg. Once did that. Yeah, that's right. That's right. All right. I'll do it. It's fun. What do I buy a chicken? Chickens are us that's not a thing, right? Does Amazon have them?

Kevin 52:52
There are places that mail order the chicks, you have to raise them or you go to like, if you Google feed store, I don't know where you live in. more rural areas have feed stores. If you have tractor supplies near you. That kind of store typically has like spring chicks that they sell. And they're only a couple of bucks each and you buy a little. You buy a bag of feed for them and you have a water and that's it. You feed water and make sure they got a heat lamp when they're little for a couple of weeks. And they

Scott Benner 53:21
can live in the cold in the winter and all that. Yeah, they don't need a living room or carpets or anything like that.

Kevin 53:28
No, though. I have a wood chip floor for them. They live in a barn. That's amazing. All right. Yeah. You gotta get your eggs sooner. Right? If it's gonna be below zero, you better go pick those eggs up before dinner. They're gonna free solid because they stopped laying on them. And then they go to roost.

Scott Benner 53:45
Oh, no kidding. And they're gonna like pull out their feathers and go crazy ever because I don't know what to do. If that happens.

Kevin 53:51
I don't keep roosters. roosters are the bosses. They tend to create what they call a pecking order. And they'll pick the less desirable ones. So I just keep a bunch of females around and just that's how we do it

Scott Benner 54:07
just occurred to me. I know what Tractor Supply is because of Yellowstone. Do you watch Yellowstone? Cool? I do not. They do not. Tractor Supply seems to be the biggest add supporter of Yellowstone. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, that's interesting. Because you said Tractor Supply. And I'm like, I know what that is. But why don't I know what that is? Alright, it's fun. So Kevin, is there anything we haven't talked about that we should have?

Kevin 54:30
I don't know. I think we covered a lot of ground. I was just like I said, really grateful for what what you've done and shared with the world and how much it's made a difference to me and I just wanted to be part of that. Give back a little bit.

Scott Benner 54:43
It was very kind of you. I appreciate it. I find it in the end. Most people want to come on and just to spread what they've learned or what they've been through. And it's just it's really valuable. So I appreciate you taking the time to do it. Thank you.

Kevin 54:55
You bet, man. You bet. Hold on one sec. Thanks again.

Scott Benner 54:57
Oh, no, it's my good work is my My pleasure. Hold on one second.

About Kevin coming on and giving us that great interview. Thank you so much, Kevin. And thank you, us med for sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast once again 888-721-1514 or us med.com. Forward slash juicebox. Whether you use the phone number or the link, you're going to reach people. We're waiting for you Juicebox Podcast listeners to contact them. Don't let them just sit there wallboard. 888-721-1514. For us med.com forward slash juice box. If you're interested in what's going to happen on episode 1000s of the podcast, stay tuned.

I've been using an editor for the podcast recently. It just got so far behind and I found the perfect fit with a really professional, great person, somebody who's involved with type one diabetes, and just a great fit does wonderful work. Anyway, I was talking to rob one day. And I said, Is there anything you could do about the horrifying audio in some of the Pro Tip series actually, like the first 15 or 20 episodes are kind of janky. And Rob did an amazing job on them. So for Episode 1000, we're going to rerelease the Pro Tip series, the diabetes Pro Tip series from the Juicebox Podcast, starting in Episode 1000. And I'm gonna put them out in order 1001 23456 all the way up, there's 26 of them. Now I know what you're thinking, Scott, you're gonna release the podcast 26 days in a row like that. I'm not. But I do want to keep the episodes together, numerically. So what I'm going to do is starting with Episode 1000, I think for the first week, you'll get the first four or five episodes of The Pro Tip series depending on how the calendar lines up. And then when we get to the weekend, I'm going to put out all of the episodes over the weekend. So if we get out, you know, the first four then the next 21 are going to come like every couple of hours over the weekend, fill up your podcast player, you can listen to them or don't listen to them. But the idea is that in the future when people are trying to find them, and we're referencing where they are, there'll be together episode 1000 Episode 1026 Is the diabetes Pro Tip series. Anyway, the audio is way way improved. It's Rob's a magician. I think you're gonna love it. If you've listened to the Pro Tip series already. I'll tell you what listening through again, is never a bad idea. I listen to them. Sometimes. They remind me about stuff. And if there's a person in your life who you've been thinking about telling about the podcast, this might be a really terrific time to introduce them. Once there was a time when I just told people if you want a low and stable a one C, just listen to the Juicebox Podcast. But as the years went on, and the podcast episodes grew, it became more and more difficult for people to listen to everyone. So I made the diabetes Pro Tip series. This series is with me and Jenny Smith. Jenny is a Certified diabetes Care and Education Specialist. She's also a registered and licensed dietitian and a type one herself for over 30 years and I of course, am the father of a child who was diagnosed at age two in 2006. The Pro Tip series begins at episode 210 with an episode called newly diagnosed are starting over and from there all about MDI Pre-Bolus Singh insulin pumping, pumping and nudging variables exercise illness, injury surgeries glucagon long term health bumping and nudging how to explain type one, two, your family postpartum honeymoon transitioning all about insulin Temp Basal. These are all different episodes, setting your Basal insulin, fat and protein pregnancy, the glycemic index and load and so much more like female hormones and weight loss. Head now to juicebox podcast.com. Go up in the menu at the top and click on diabetes pro tip. Or if you're in the private Facebook group, there's a list of these episodes right in the feature tab. Find out how I helped keep my daughter's a one C between five two and six two for the last 10 years without diet restrictions. If you have type two or prediabetes that type two diabetes Pro Tip series from the Juicebox Podcast is exactly what you're looking for. Do you have a friend or a family member who is struggling to understand their type two and how to manage it? This series is for them seven episodes to get you on track and up to speed. Episode 860 series intro 864 guilt and shame episode eight six Denine medical team 874 fuelling plan, Episode 880 diabetes technology episode 85 GLP ones metformin and insulin and an episode 889 We talk about movement. This episode is with me and Jenny Smith. Of course, you know Jenny is a Certified diabetes Care and Education Specialist. She's a registered and licensed dietitian and Jenny has had type one diabetes for over 30 years. Too many people don't understand their type two diabetes, and this series aims to fix that. Share it with a friend or get started today. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.