#942 Get DiabetesWise

June 29, 2023Scott Benner

Korey Hood, PHD has type 1 diabetes and is the founder of DiabetesWise.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 942 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Quarry hood has type one diabetes. He's also a professor and health psychologist at Stanford University. And today, the creator of diabetes wise is here to tell us more about it. While you're listening, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan, or becoming bold with insulin. If you'd like to save 10% On your first month of therapy, you can@betterhelp.com forward slash juicebox you can save 35% on your entire order at cozy earth.com with the offer code juice box at checkout and of course, ag one get yourself some delicious ag one at athletic greens.com forward slash juice box and when you use my link, you'll get five free travel packs and a year supply of vitamin D with your first order. After you're finished listening to Cory if you're interested, check out diabetes wise.org.

This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the contour next gen blood glucose meter. Learn more and get started today at contour next one.com forward slash juicebox. Actually just you can get more than started you can actually buy the contour and the strips right at that link and they may be cheaper in cash than you're used to paying for your current meter through insurance and the contour next gen is super accurate and offers Second Chance testing. today's podcast is also sponsored by Omni pod now Omni pod offers the Omni pod five if you're looking for an algorithm, or the Omni pod dash, if you want to go old school, either way, you're going to be to Bliss and carefree with the Omni pod Omni pod.com forward slash juicebox links in the show notes links at juicebox podcast.com To contour Omni pod and all the sponsors.

Korey Hood 2:27
Hi, I'm Corey hood. I'm professor at Stanford University psychologists. I'm also a person with diabetes. I'm glad to be here to chat with you a little bit about myself and diabetes wise and whatever wherever this

Scott Benner 2:41
leads are nice. Well, it's nice to meet you, Cory. You've type one.

Korey Hood 2:46
Yeah, I do have type one diabetes,

Scott Benner 2:48
how old were you when you were diagnosed?

Korey Hood 2:50
So I was diagnosed in 2000. So I was I was 26. So I'm going on, I'm on my 23rd year, I have kind of an interesting diagnosis story, which was that I had started working my my PhD. And when I when I came into the Ph. D program, I had to pick some program and I just happened is one of the only ones that was available is what was in diabetes. And so I was interested in psychology and health but not didn't really have much of an interest in diabetes, but started that work. And then within six months, I was diagnosed myself I had, you know, I had lost like 30 pounds and, you know, had all the classic symptoms. So, so yeah, it was an interesting experience, right, as you're starting that work, but

Speaker 1 3:43
it sounds like all the circumstances of your life are pushing you in that direction. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. What did you have your undergrad in? And what were you hoping to build on? But you know, I mean, when you when you set up that that PhD program, what's your goal?

Korey Hood 4:00
Yeah. You know, I was interested in I think I was just interested in psychology as an undergraduate. And that was what my degree was, and it was in Bachelor of Science in Psychology. And I was interested in, I don't think I had a specific area that I was really interested in, but I was just, I thought that it was really, it was fun to understand why people do the things that they do. And so to understand behavior and thoughts and then I think as I explored it a bit more, I thought more and more about health and how does the what is the psychology of health and so as I started work on my PhD, which is in clinical and health psychology, it was you know, it was really just what something at the intersection of health and, and disease or, you know, the psychology side of it. And then as I worked in the field, I think that my interests have also evolved into understanding how this technology play a role in this and how we think about health and the things that we can do and the benefits of it. Sometimes the drawbacks, and that's ultimately what has led us to work on diabetes wise and other programs where we're trying to understand the intersection of how someone thinks about health and themselves and technology and devices. And obviously, diabetes is a huge part of my life, personally and professionally.

Scott Benner 5:30
What do you find? I mean, you're, you're diagnosed as an adult, right? So what did you find to be the most difficult in the early going? And what is sticking with you? Later?

Korey Hood 5:43
Yeah, it's, I think that what was, even though I had worked in diabetes, I, you know, I think you feel a little bit like this is, you know, this is this is outside of me, this is not part of me. I get to go home in the evening and not, you know, check blood sugars, take insulin injections, do all those kind of things. So I think that getting used to how much work it is, was probably the hardest part, just thinking about it. And it'd be on your mind all the time. And then I think, as I've gone along in the 20 plus years, I think that there have been different times. But they've all they've always been driven a little bit by devices and technology, you know, in terms of, do I want to do this? isn't accurate enough? Am I getting burned out by using it? Everybody says this is the best thing ever isn't really the best thing ever. And so I think it took me a little while to I don't know, maybe find my comfort place with technology and devices and all that as we kind of moved along with the, with the diagnosis and then just having diabetes. Long term.

Scott Benner 6:56
I remember. Right off the bat, Arden was just diagnosed for a couple of days. And this is going back now. I mean, she was two and she was diagnosed, she's about to be 19. So it's 17 years ago. And I can as clear as day picture, the nurse coming in with this little meter that she said we were going to take home with us. And then she had a cart with this giant meter from the hospital. And she's like, look, I'm you know, I'm going to test her for her charts here. And she tested with the big meter from the hospital. And she goes, go ahead. Now you test here with this meter. And the numbers were so different than each other. And I don't mean within like 20% tolerances. I mean, like, it was shocking. And, and she's and I said, Well, I you know, I'd prefer like that meter. Why don't you let me have that one? Because that thing costs $10,000. You can't have that belongs to the hospital, you're going to use that when I said well, which ones right? And that was it. Like right there. It was like frozen. You know, I thought well, I don't understand like, how am I supposed to do this? If you know, yeah, it is an odd thing to say that. It doesn't matter. Like I don't know how that like it eventually it kind of just I don't I've never been able to put this into words. It just I mean, meter technology has obviously gotten better over the years. And Arden uses a much more accurate meter. But back then. I don't know. It just it was never an issue after I let go of it. But it was really difficult to let go of.

Korey Hood 8:21
Yeah, no. And I think one thing that that brings up, as I was thinking about, you know, we talked to a lot of people as we were in both research, and then that as we've created diabetes wise and other projects, but the one of the things that I think a lot of people that have been diagnosed longer than maybe 10 or 15 years, they talk a lot about this kind of feeling of just flying blind, like having no idea what their glucose might be, because they're getting either different readings or they're, they don't have access to one it's a it's when I've had that it's really kind of an unsettling experience when you're supposed to be doing something or someone tells you that you're supposed to do it a certain way, but you don't have the actual equipment to make those decisions.

Scott Benner 9:14
I just got done speaking with a 64 year old woman who's had diabetes for like 50 years. And it was interesting, she tried to pump and she had some issues with the set and so she got away from it. And even though her a one C was almost a full point lower on the pump than it was on MDI. She didn't live through a time when even the insulin and the way people thought about it and technology would allow you to make adjustments to your blood sugar after you ate or something like that. So she didn't see that as a as a concern. She She was well aware of that or a once he was lower that she was doing better. It was healthier. She said it was a little more work, but it wasn't enough to make her feel But I'll persevere with the pump or even check on another one. If maybe this insulin pumps not right for me, I'll try a different one. But she spoke about her Dexcom. Like it was just irreplaceable. Because it actually, it actually fixed a problem for her. That scared her horrible, horrible life. She wasn't scared of a six, seven, a one C, she thought that was terrific, even though the pump was giving her a six. But not being able to know she was low. That meant like the world tour. It was just interesting to me how she embraced one side of it, but didn't care so much about the other side, until I realized that this is just the perspective she grew up through, you know, anyway, it's interesting. So yeah, so diabetes wise, is what we're How does it start? Who is it? What is it trying to accomplish?

Korey Hood 10:52
Yeah. So we started, we started diabetes wise, about five years ago. And we, what we were realizing as we looked kind of the landscape of devices, and technologies was that there wasn't really a place you can go to that had, you know, everything, all the different devices, all the different technologies, what you had to do was you had to go to one device manufacturer website and compare it to the other device. You know, there wasn't really a place where you could do a lot of those comparisons, and get it some of the things you're talking about, which is what are some of the features that people are interested in? What are the what are the some people are interested in the actual specs of how accurate one is versus the other in terms of CGM. You know, which ones have to been which ones don't on the pump side. And so we realized we needed to create something that could could fill that void. And then we thought it was also important to do it in a way that, you know, wasn't branded or wasn't biased toward one or the other. And that's why we sought funding from the Helmsley Charitable Trust so that we could be you know, we certainly have a bias that devices and technologies work really well. But we don't have a, I don't have a bias toward which one I want you to use, I just want more people to gain access to it. And so and I think that that aligned with with their mission, and also, you know, obviously sitting at Stanford, you know, the the idea is to promote more awareness and education just through one of the missions of the university. And so, so we really tried to create something that could be as untethered to device manufacturers and technologies as we could but offer a, you know, a true, you know, unbiased view of what these different technologies have to offer.

Scott Benner 12:50
So did you do a an independent study of each device to give I mean, so basically, I don't want to dumb this down, because I'm on the website. That's obviously more than what I'm about to say. But it's an impartial review site for glucose monitors, pumps, meters, that kind of stuff.

Korey Hood 13:09
Yeah, absolutely. And, and I think that one of the things that, you know, I think that everybody's gotten used to this, or at least I have, I think many other people, you know, when you search for something on Amazon, and it says, What are other products, like the one that you're looking for? And so we wanted something that was able to, you know, for example, you could compare the Dexcom g7, to the Abbott libre three, you could compare it to Sensi on it, you could you can line those three up. And you could say, how are these? What are the what are the features? What are the priorities, what and then the part that we added, it gets to your question about the independent work on each one, we reviewed all of them, we don't give them a value, we actually decided to stay away from us giving them a review, you know, four out of five stars or whatever it might be, but we but what we wanted to do was really get to know each of those devices. And so we actually have a lot of people on our team that have diabetes themselves. We have, we've run focus groups, you know, studies to really get at what people say. And so one of the other parts of the website includes, you know, wisdom and stories and quotes from people about what their experiences have been. And not all of them are positive, you know, we're not, we don't try and sugarcoat it. So

Scott Benner 14:36
no, I mean, I always say what works for you is what's best. Yeah, I mean, that's just sort of simple. If you if you abhor tubing, then you're looking at an omni pod if you don't care about that then you know when I don't know the inset works better for you with handle them than right on if your insurance covers metrics, like you know, do what works is it's always been my my feeling But who who pays for this diabetes wise? Like you said you went to Helmsley. But is that the only funding it has?

Korey Hood 15:08
Yeah. So right now the so we've had funding from the Helmsley Charitable Trust was so since 2018, specifically on diabetes wise efforts. And then before that we had studied funding to do projects where, you know, we would interview, we have one project where we interviewed 1500 People with type one diabetes, about the reasons why they started and stopped CGM. What makes them go off? And it's to your point a little bit earlier about the 60s something, you know, that that you talked to, you know, we heard a lot from people that, you know, it's for worries and concerns about hyperglycemia or for other things. And then so, so we've had funding from them. So right now, all of the funding to support diabetes wise, and the the HCP side of it, diabetes wise Pro comes from the Helmsley Charitable Trust, we sit at Stanford. And so, you know, Stanford helps us have an ability to have different computing programs and things like that, but Helmsley is the one who supports it.

Scott Benner 16:18
So for a regular user, they can use the website for free, but there's a pro side is that is that? Is there a fee for doctors to use that?

Korey Hood 16:27
No, both both sites are free. So diabetes, ys.org is for people with diabetes, but anybody can look at it. It's all free. There's no part that there is nothing that's unlocked by having a subscription or anything like that, we don't have that. And then on the pro dot diabetes, Whiteside org site, the HV HCP side, it has some some similar features in terms of being able to compare different devices look at a device library, but the pro site has a prescription tool where a provider but a personal diabetes could also do this, where they put in, what their plan is, what device they're looking for, where they live, and then it'll spit out whether or not you need prior authorization to get your device, and then it'll spit out. You know, who provides this? Because I mean, you know, from from doing this, I think he said 17 years, you know, there's, you probably had five different DME companies or pharmacies in the last like five weeks. So it's this kind of experience. So, so also trying to give people information about prior off, do you need it? If you do, where are you going to get it? And so we tried to make that as easy and as simple as possible to kind of simplify the prescription process. Well,

Scott Benner 17:55
while you were explaining that I checked to see if a Dexcom G seven was available. I mean, I know it is in New Jersey with my insurance, and it came right back with an answer. So let's go That's great. Yeah. That's wonderful. So there's the goal isn't the goal of this website's not to make an income, you're just providing the service? Why okay, why? Now I like you know what I mean? Like what is? Yeah, I'm not saying everybody's doing something for money. I'm not saying that I'm saying that like, when you sit down and say this, obviously you you thought of this as a need so I guess from your professional training, what did you think this was going to alleviate for people like what what? What thing did you see happening that you thought that needs to be righted?

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Korey Hood 22:47
That's a great question. I think, as I've thought about it, I, I think that the critical first part is that I think there were there's not enough awareness about what's available from devices and technologies. And so, you know, if you think about someone who's diagnosed right now, they may, they may have to do a lot of searching a lot of information to get to increase their awareness of what's available to them. So I think that the first part was to increase awareness of devices and technologies that they work and that they're available. The second part was to broaden access, because we know that, you know, if you in your search right there, if you would have put in a different type of insurance, or maybe you put in Medicaid or Medicare, it may come back as not being covered. And so then, you know, many times people in those situations will just stop and they'll say, you know, I don't know what I'm supposed to do, I can't access this. So we wanted to, you know, help people become more aware, help them gain access. And that may be you know, we have different kinds of programs, or not programs, but guides for them to seek approval, how to get, you know, pre certification, do all of those kinds of things that are that are a lot of work. So, and then and then the last part is that, to get people on technology and get them on devices, we think that that'll improve both quality of life and their health outcomes. And that's, you know, that's further down the road, things that we don't track as closely, but, you know, we're, we're interested in that, and I think they, you know, your your question about the the money side is, is a great one. I think that, you know, the reality is you couldn't sustain this without, you know, philanthropy, you can't, and you couldn't sustain this without some income and you can't maintain a, I don't know, an unbiased or unbranded view, if you start taking money from device manufacturers, or companies and so we have to find a way Our long term program, our long term ideas, we've got to make this sustainable in a way that we can still remain neutral. But we were gonna have to generate some income to support it in some way.

Scott Benner 25:09
Well, Cory, you should have came to me earlier, because what I do is I just say, Look, you can buy ads in the podcast, but if somebody says something crappy about your thing, I'm not sticking up for you. I just think it's, it's people's experiences i. So you know, it's funny. I relate to exactly what you're saying, you can have a thing that is so valuable to people. But that doesn't mean anything. You still have to make them aware of it, show them how to use it, make them understand why it's helpful for them. Like it really is. It's a difficult thing. Like I have Episodes Series within this podcast, I am completely comfortable telling you, Cory, you listen to those series, you're able to see is going to be a six with very little trouble. And I don't mean in the six. Yeah, I mean, a six. If you apply a couple of the other ideas, you can live in the fives with a little bit of technology, free podcast, like that's it like I, because I take ads, because I got into the same spot you were at, I was like, I'm gonna have this thing. And it turns out, if you turn to people and say, Hey, I could save your life for $5 a month, they'll go no, thank you, and you don't like it. And you know, and that's just the thing you can't get past. I, I tried to make the podcast for a little while without ads. And then my wife was like, You better get a job. And I was like, Okay, so. So we took some ads. And what I find is that I just stay focused on in my mind, my job is helping people. That's all I see my job as, and I take advertising money for people. So I can do that. And I also find that the honesty, which is why I like this idea. I think the honesty fixes everything, because nothing's perfect. And in fairness, I don't see any device manufacturers running around saying our thing is perfect. And your thing is, and I think it's pretty obvious once it's in your hands, everything has limitations one way or the other, right? It's what's best for you. And I actually think from a marketing perspective, that's the best thing that the companies could say, is that you should try our thing. And hopefully it's right for you. That I mean, to me, that's that's how you sell this stuff like it's a TiVo. You put it in their house, and then they'll love it, or they'll hate it, and they'll keep it or they won't, and you move on to the next person. Is this terrific that you're doing this? Really, it's, I guess, then the next leap? Right? It's probably what you're here is how do you how do you make people aware of it? That's absolutely difficult. Yeah.

Korey Hood 27:39
And I think that, you know, I, I appreciate everything that you mentioned there. And I also think these are the things that I think we're, we're thinking about as we try and grow this and reach I think that one of the biggest efforts we've tried to make in the last probably six months is making more diabetes care professionals aware of the site, because we think there's a lot of value with the prescription tool, we think there's a lot of value with, you know, the comparison of the different features. And I mean, you think about I mean, we're not just thinking about the endocrinologist here, we're thinking about those in primary care, you know, the 60, something that only gets to see primary care, never sees the diabetes specialist, but, you know, how are they going to get become more aware of this. And so, I think that so some of those efforts include reaching out to specific clinics, making them more aware doing things like this. And, you know, it's, it's a great opportunity to be on here and talk about this, and, and, you know, just to continue to get the word out about it, but also, you were trying to exhibit at, we're planning at the American diabetes Association and a couple of weeks to have a booth and to talk about it. You know, they give nonprofits a little bit of a price discount, which is the only way that we can be there and exhibit but but but it's really the, you know, the idea you're right, making people more aware is really the the first part and I think that as we hopefully what we can do is we can we can increase access, because we think that there's a lot of people who, who can't access these or just aren't aware of them. So let's let's do that.

Scott Benner 29:25
And this is the pathway to, to that. I did a I mean, you're an actual researcher, but I did an informal poll, maybe a 50 question survey. I think I got 1100 listeners to the podcast to respond. Okay, which and I had a great I had a great person who has type one who was at Johns Hopkins, she was finishing up her MPH and she wanted to help the podcast and I said, you helped me like facilitate this poll, like make it as close to what you know, real researchers would do. We'd be impressed by. And what I learned is that overwhelmingly, the people that listen to this podcast are helped by this podcast, sometimes three or four to one over their doctor, and like six to one over other materials online or in print. And that is, was a real big lesson for me. You know, I just thought, like, wow, I thought I knew what the podcast did for people, I see the reviews, I have a bustling, like Facebook group, like, so I hear back from people constantly. But I thought, Alright, well, let's make it so that they're not, you know, their face isn't an avatar, maybe if they want to say something, you know, sideways to me like this will be a good place for them to do it. I couldn't, I couldn't get anybody to say anything different. It was it was just, it was fascinating. And so when I think about my job, I think my job and your job are very similar. I've been doing this for nine years. And when people asked me what I want the goal, what is the long term goal of this, I always think I want for one day, somebody goes to their doctor's office, and actually gets the right information immediately. And because you can't count on your doctor, right? Like they're not with you all the time, they can't, they can't be in your pocket, but they can put you in the right direction. And I am really, I'm really sure that by trying to sometimes save people's feelings or not overload them, you can send them down the wrong path, then they can have a bad outcome. And then they can come to believe that that outcome is there, is there a lot in life, and then they don't look up again. And then they just live like that. And they go, they go down? You know, I mean, you have no idea how many people come on here and talk about their 11 a one sees for 10 years of their life. And then I somewhat fixed it. I was in Costco one day, and a lady saw my pump and told me about your podcast. And now my one sees a six. And, and I think about technology the same way. So many people, especially kind of old school type ones, especially their expectations aren't the same. And so when they're presented with these ideas, so like now, this is good enough, I'm fine. But with pumps, like, I mean, I know you don't use like, but I mean, any of the algorithms on the pod five control IQ, this eyelet thing it's about to come out, right? I mean, I think I like shooting for like a seven a one C I'm not sure I'm about to interview him this week, right? But so don't hold me to that right now. But if I slap a pump on someone with an 11, a, one C, and they can keep a seven? Well, you just changed their life. You know, absolutely, you know, and so but then again, it becomes about awareness and access and and that feeling like I could do this. And and that's not something you get from your doctor, your doctor who by the way, could be in practice for 25 years, and be giving you a certain pump, because 20 years ago, 20 years ago, like a pretty girl with broader bagels on Fridays, and was like holding up a pump, you know, like you don't know why you're being told what to do. And I wanted to ask you about that. Because if you're willing to talk about it, when you speak to doctors, do they really no. Where are they just doing what they do, too? Does that make sense?

Korey Hood 33:24
Yeah, no, it does make sense. And I and I, I think that I appreciate the the context to why you know, why we think about this, I think I guess I would leave no answer from both the personal and then more of like the diabetes, wives diabetes, why sigh? I think that, personally, I think what I what I have found myself doing is gravitating toward doctors that that No, and that are in the know. And so I've been fortunate to be in places where there are some really great, you know, endocrinologist or diabetologists, who I can access. And so, and there have been several that, you know, you you push to the side, because there may be not as it's not even about being aggressive, but just being you know, I guess listening to me, and doing what I think might be helpful or are going to, but I think I'm in a really unique and privileged position to be able to do that because of the because of where I've worked and people that I've gotten to know. So I think that what I would love is for people to feel like that. You know that to have that personal connection to a provider where they can tell them things and the provider is going to have their back or they're going to do that and I think that they're out there, but those are also the ones that you'll have a waiting list of a year long because they know that they're really great. So I think that you so that's a little bit about Part of it. And then I think the other thing that it reminded me, when you were you were mentioning that was that on diabetes wise, we have a section called wisdom. And it's really these stories that people have. And some of them are quotes, some of them are videos, you can watch about their experiences. And a lot of times, it's about their experiences with devices. But the amount that people feel empowered, when they, when they take over some part of management, and maybe that's through device and being able to see the numbers make a decision about device, you know, when they feel empowered about it, it really changes I think, their, their approach to management, and that I think that you were talking about, you know, the example of the person that has that interaction in Costco and then goes from an 11 to seven, a one C, I mean, it's because they've been empowered, and, you know, in your podcasts, empower them. What we're hoping is what diabetes wise, we empower them in a way. And the last thing I'll say real quick about that, is that, you know, there's some, there's some really good, some really interesting research on the way that people view, patience, you know, view different kinds of providers, even though they don't always agree with them, or they still give them a lot of power. You give them a lot of I mean, they're, they're in there's so much reverence to the providers. And then, but the reality is that they listened to other people who are in the in the trenches are on the front line, in the same way they they listened to them in a different way. And I think it's often a more powerful way,

Scott Benner 36:46
those two things can conflict a lot, too. I've come to believe, yeah, doctors, teachers, police officers, we just believe, like, hands down, we're just like, okay, no matter what, like I was raised to say, yes, and the white coat doctrine, you went to more school than me, you must be smarter than I am, you know, like all that other stuff. And then you go out into the real world, and someone says, Have you tried Pre-Bolus thing, and they go, Oh, my doctor says not to do that. And then there are some people whose personalities allow them to just break free of that and try. But overwhelmingly, a lot of people are rule followers. And, and so they'll spend this, this breaks my heart, most specifically, they'll spend their time knowing that what they're doing is wrong, believing there's a better way, and not being able to act on it. And I think that psychological punishment is maybe one of the sadder things I've seen in diabetes, like to get up every day, to be scared to eat, to be scared to use your insulin to know there's something you should be doing. Not only do you know that there has to be something else here. But I was just talking to somebody and they're doing it. And then they can't take that step. I mean, I hope you're putting a lot of effort into getting this to doctors, like specifically, obviously, there are plenty of doctors that know what they're doing. We're not talking I mean, if they all did, then we wouldn't be talking about it. But I'm not even coming down on the ones who don't. I mean, honestly, like my daughter just crossed out of pediatric into adult endocrinology. And we were very lucky. You said the same thing. We were lucky that. I mean, we were able to find a head and shoulders above the rest physician, who, by the way, doesn't do type one anymore. But he's doing it for Arden, you know, and you know, my mom's still alive, man, because my neighbor's kid grew up to be a doctor who knew another doctor who set us up with an oncologist. When other people were saying, now your mom's too old will will let nature take its course. And that guy was like, Oh, you want me to help her? I'll help her. And that's a privilege right there just by knowing people. I think that most people are not going to come into that situation. So you really it is your job. You know, to circle back around, like, I don't ever think I finished my thought completely. I see my job as telling enough people in the moment how to help themselves. So that then they go to their doctors. And inevitably, the doctor is gonna say, How did you do this? And this, they will say, I listened to the Juicebox Podcast. And then I had doctors come on i There's an endo. They came on the show a couple of years ago. And she said the podcast fundamentally changed how she helped people. That and so like, I think that's it. Like I think when I like when I lay down and die, you know, I'd like I'd like to think that I changed how doctors talk to people about their diabetes. On some level, like somewhere and this is how these things happen. Very, very small steps.

Korey Hood 39:49
Yeah, no, I absolutely agree with you. And I think that I mean, both on the the idea of the impact but one of the one of the you're pointing things out actually ties into what we thought about what diabetes wise was that the only way that there's an authenticity to it? Or is if you hear from other people with diabetes? You know, it's not, you know, I think that we can listen to a lot of different providers. And there's, there's great providers, like you said, and there, I think the ones who aren't as aware, it's usually because they, they don't have the time to it, you know, and they're, you know, they've got, they're seeing 40 patients in a day, and then it's trying to figure out a time to, like, learn something new. It's really tricky. So I think in on diabetes wise, we, we wanted within the wisdom section to insert that, but we also added to your point about, you know, kind of the guides and giving some people some, some, it's, it is advice. I mean, we're not, we're not reserved about offering advice. But we, you know, we offer guides for how to talk to your provider about getting on a device, you know, here's some things that you can say, that are going to be helpful. Here are some phrases you might want to use, this is the time to do it, you may even want to send a message through the patient portal. Before you go, because I want to talk about getting on a pump. I want to talk about starting on CGM, that, and then excuse me, and then also on the provider side, and we really think about what are, you know, what are some better ways to listen to, you know, what your, what the person with diabetes is coming to you about what are some, and if you want to prescribe, here's some, here's ways to do it. And if you get that first, you know, denial, don't give up, we've got to keep pushing through on these ways,

Scott Benner 41:50
I find it's helpful to give people expectations. So there's another thing I think, that I'm doing here is I somehow by the way, before Ted Lassa was popular, I saw part of my job is just like, I'm like the coach, like as you're running out on the field, it's a slap on the ass and like you can do it get out there. You know, like, there's part of that. There's also part about I bucked the system years ago, and you've been around a long time, Cory, so you're gonna know what I'm talking about. But there was a, there was a an edict in the diabetes community, people who created content that you didn't celebrate, because it made people feel better. And I don't like I don't think you should be running around in the endzone, like spiking the ball and, you know, flipping people off in the stance. But, but, but I do think is there, there's, there's a mistake that if you think of people as being above you, they're not above you, they're ahead of you. Like, like, it's not a it's not a score, it's a path. And so why would we not illuminate the people up ahead who have already traversed all the problems? Know the answers are having the success that you're hoping for? Why don't we shine a light on them as hope, like, so to me, you give people expectation that they deserve better, and hope that they can achieve more. And then you show them, look, here's how, here's how I did it. That's all I'm doing here, I just share what worked for my daughter. And you can cherry pick from it or copied it exactly, or ignore me, I like I don't care, I'm just doing my best to put it out there. And I do think that was the other thing that this space missed for a while was that a lot of the content was coming from people who were struggling, which then makes it feel like that's the whole world. And then the people who like figured it out, they kind of go away and go back to their life. And I said to my wife one time, I'm like, I'm gonna stay behind and, and like, try to be a beacon. You know, and that takes a little bit of, I don't know what that takes. I was gonna say chutzpah, but I don't know if people know that work that but but what I did was I looked at my daughter and I said, I have a system. I don't call it something. I haven't marketed it to anything. I didn't name it all. But I know if you do these things, you're a one season the fives. It just is I know it. I'm gonna stay behind and tell stories about it, where I'm at a maybe I'm just going to translate right into this thing. I'm worried for you, you've got this wonderful website. But the one thing I've learned, being around us for so long, again, going back to the beginning, is having good information doesn't make you definitely successful and help you reach people. The reason the podcast works is because there's great information mixed in with stories about like people being diagnosed on a heroin vendor. And so like, you know, like, that's the actual story on the podcast, like, you know, where people coming on and being like, so emotional and honest about themselves. And like, really, it's the long form that allows it to happen. And then I mean, not for nothing. I just got here first. So my my camera's been set up longer. And so that's where that's where the numbers. I mean, I don't know what you think about all day, but most of the day, I think about helping more people, like how do you reach more people? And I mean, I'm happy to have you on here and help about this, because this is just a wonderful idea. And I know how hard it is to put it in front of people.

Korey Hood 45:15
Yeah, and I think I think that there, there are a couple things that I thought about as you were mentioning that, one is that, you know, simply giving people education and information. I mean, we've done that, and we know not forever, but we still do it, which is, you know, it doesn't change outcomes, often, you know, what, you know, what, and what we tried to do with diabetes wise, and I'm thinking about a specific story of a guy on, on there named Dan who, who talked a lot about his journey in diabetes, trying some different devices, and then going off them. And then, you know, how, how it made him feel different times, how it made him frustrated, angry. And then to come back, you know, have to give it a couple of years and then come back to it. But then ultimately, what it what it unlocked for him was the ability to do some of the things that he really loves doing. And his specific example was motorcycles. And like being able to do things as a group with other friends that he wasn't able to do before. He had CGM, because he was so worried about going low and things like that. And so I think that the part that helps a lot, and I think that you do this in the podcast, and then what we try and do our diabetes wise as well is to walk people through the process to of when they run up against those barriers, or those challenges. What what do you try and do and then give examples of people who have problems solved to figure it out? And those are the ones that, like you said, are kind of out in the front leading. And, and I can do that a little bit. But if you hear that, from, you know, if you if you listen to stories and you know, ton of other people who did it in the same way, were you were you on the pro side, if you talk to you listen to some of the providers who have struggled over time giving prescriptions, but have found a way to do it. You know, it's I think that's a much more powerful story than anything you're gonna get in a relatively short visit with your provider. Yep.

Scott Benner 47:24
And bullet points are, are, they're useless? Like you, I've said before, like, there can be the secret to life and this episode, if it's not entertaining, you're not gonna get to it. If the sound is bad, Cory, people will shut it off. Like there are so many like, like, little speed bumps that derail people, and I understand why, you know, but it's just it's so dry. And you mentioned it earlier, it's already your whole life. Right? Like, you're living with it constantly, like, well, I'm going to spend my entertainment hours listening about diabetes like, yeah, to your mind. You don't I mean, but that's why when I first started doing this, I had someone come up to me and say, You can't do what you're doing. They said, You're Not You can't tell people how you manage your daughter. It's dangerous. And I said, I disagree. And I think back on that person all the time. And I wonder what would have happened, if I would have just like, let them scare me off, you know, and I said, No, I said, I don't agree with you. I said, I, I reject, honestly, the idea that all of our everyone's diabetes is that different. Your your variables are different, and your personal life is different, etc. But insulin works, the way it works. Hydration works, the way it works. Those things are consistent. And it's sorted to me like, I'm so old now. But it's the matrix. Right? Like, like, I know, when you stop and look at it, in the beginning, it looks like a guy in a black coat. But it turns out, it's ones and zeros. And you know, you can manipulate it. Is it hard? Not after you understand it, you know, it's never gonna be easy, you get better at it, you know, like, it's, there's a path through that. And you have someone's got to give you, I'm gonna ruin my own metaphor, because I forget which pill showed you the matrix. But But someone's got to give you that pill and say, Look, there's more here than what you're seeing. You know, I hate when people say, that's just diabetes. Because to me, that means you just don't understand how insulin works. Like, like, you wouldn't, you wouldn't say that, like diabetes isn't a thing that happens to you. It's a thing that happens that you more frequently don't understand. And understanding it gets you a lot farther and understanding that technology is going to take people a lot farther. I mean, this is this is really wonderful. I appreciate you doing this.

Korey Hood 49:49
And one thing I would add, add to that. I completely agree with that. That idea and I think that what also happens I think with devices and technologies which makes Diabetes, why is unique is that, you know, given our, my experiences personal and diabetes, but also as a psychologist and then a lot of people on our team, how many diabetes? I think that we better understand the the psychological connection to devices and technologies because here's the big one. And, you know, at the core of it, is this relatively straightforward. You know, like you said in The Matrix ones and zeros, I mean, there's a relatively straightforward approach to it. But then you add in all of these emotions, do you add in all of this extra junk that you bring into it or that others bring to it, and it makes it really complicated. And so I think that trying to get through a bit of that with some of the tools that we have on on the sites, I think can help people get through a little bit of that chunk in that baggage. Because if you can make it a bit clearer if you can manage it in a lot better way

Scott Benner 51:02
1,000,000%. It's, it's, listen, Cory, you'll, you were older when you were diagnosed, but I sent my daughter off as a freshman this year, she went 700 miles by car from my house, oh, live by herself. And she kept her agency in the low 60s, mid 60s by herself eating crappy food, it's great first time away. And her agency went up like a half a point from when she left. And I was like, I didn't, I was like, You're doing terrific. You know, like, it just it's and what does she have? She's got a CGM, she has a pump, she's isn't an algorithm. Those things are great. I see plenty of people use those that don't have a one sees like that, like, if you like people know, the food at colleges is horrendous. And a lot of calories and fried food. And you know, bolusing for it is, is a Herculean effort. But But what she really has is, like the things, the ideas that we talked about over the years and went over and, and that when something comes up, she doesn't pause and go, I don't know what to do. She goes, Oh, this is this thing. I do this. You know what I mean? Like, she's got knowledge. And it's, and it's available to her without having to wonder. And I just think that that's incredibly important. And I think that you could the doctors need that. Like when I walk into an office and I say, Hey, do you have a suggestion for an insulin pump? I don't want to hear about the one that you know, you like because the company's up the street from here, which happens in the Midwest a lot, you know, and, like, I don't want to hear which CGM like the commercial you saw. Like I saw the commercials too, like what do you know about them? And if you don't know, learn, and learn by talking to people, not by reading a pamphlet or looking for bullet points. Go find people who are listened to them and you have your patients right there, listen to them, and then figure it out yourself? It's not Do you think the model is I don't know, if I'm going to take you in an uncomfortable way. I often think that the model of one patient going to one doctor for a prescribed amount of time around diabetes is completely wrong. I think that every day 300 People ought to come into an auditorium and all the endocrinologist and the practices stand up front. And they should just talk to everybody, enough people ask questions that everyone's questions will get answered. And I see I see that being I know, there's HIPPA and stuff like that, but you could sign well, but I think that I

Korey Hood 53:34
think that I think you bring up right there at the end, you'll one of the biggest barriers to that is, you know, all of the kinds of regulatory things that make it hard. And there is a conflict between helping people and all of the the kind of roadblocks that we put up from a regulatory standpoint. And I think that, and I think that's partially partially why you've seen people move to some of the things like diabetes wise, and I mean, your podcasts, other sources, where you can you can get more of a Frank, you know, view a more authentic view. And, and I think that there's a lot of value in that. I do think that, I mean, I would love to be able to do more group visits and have people together and, you know, it's it's something that they've been trying to do for two decades. And it's been really tricky to get enough people to want to do these group visits because of some of those kinds of things with privacy and confidentiality and all of that. But the other thing that I think, and this is where I actually thought that you were going with it was thinking about, you know, providing care more remotely and more broadly. And people not having to come into clinics, people not having to come in two places. I think we're moving in In the direction where you're gonna have maybe a little bit more of a, an option to do things remotely and to have a little bit more of a menu of who you might want to see. And if that's the case, then we we need to help people become more informed about making those decisions and choices. And I think that, you know, we try and do that a diabetes wise and, you know, I think that we want people to feel empowered, feel like they can make these choices and decisions on their own, but they need the information, they need the knowledge, they need other people's stories to support, you know, they're pushing us to do this, you're making

Scott Benner 55:37
me think I should get back to something I was doing. I did during COVID A lot. We did these, like zooms. And if I'm, if I'm being honest, I came out of I was trying to prove something at first, I saw a very big diabetes organization, do an online zoom and 14 people are in it. I thought, Oh, is it hard to get people in these things? So then I did want to have to get like 250 people in it. And I was like, Ah, all right, that made me feel better. But then, but then I got in there. And I was like, What is this supposed to be? What's it going to do? What we turned it into was, I will sit here as long as I can and answer as many questions as you can, while everybody listens. But what I have that no one else has is that I get to say at the beginning, but nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise. And then And then, and I'm not telling you what to do. I'm giving you my opinion of your question. And I don't know, when I don't know how long it's gonna have to be before people in a position of power look up and see that they're being served. They're being supplanted by a guy in an extra room in his house, you know what I mean? Like, I'm reaching more people, and, and that, that's where it has to change, really, like, you have to give up that idea of the model, which is like, I'm smarter, I went to school, I know, even though any doctor you talk to will tell you that they like studied diabetes for 18 seconds while they were in med school, right? And you know, like so. But then they get out there with that idea of like, this is this is how it works. It doesn't work like that anymore. My podcast last week was in the top 10 on the US medicine list, with with shows that are run by Fortune 500 companies that have staffs of hundreds of people. And if that doesn't tell you that these people need accessible information that they can walk away and use acceptably, and they don't want to come to your office, and they don't trust you. And we're you're not doing it the way that you should be. If that's not clear at this point, then like, I don't know how, how much clearer to make it. You know, it gets Do you know that we don't just help people here with diabetes, we've taught people how to advocate for themselves with their iron issues, their thyroid issues, their mental health, we branched out, you know, in a world where people told me Don't mix diabetes together, not we help people with type two diabetes, like, you know, like it just, it's not a, all those old models are supposition that doesn't work in the real world anymore. Like this, this is this is how people get information now, like get on border or get left behind, and don't right away. And I'm not and I'm not calling anybody out, although I am thinking of somebody, don't get it in your head to start a podcast, and then make it the same boring stuff that they hear in the office like that, like, yes, the delivery systems, not the problem. The message is the problem. So anyway, yeah, I don't know how

Korey Hood 58:37
I think. No, no, I really appreciate all those comments. And I would also say I think it also ties a little bit back into what you said early on was, you know, thinking about what the value proposition is for people. And in thinking specifically about diabetes wise, I think that, you know, they have to feel like there's some value in it, that they're hearing some advice, or some suggestions or, but but it's also relevant to their life and their daily, the daily grind of diabetes. And I think the, you know, you can speak to that, and the the experience that people have to have, whether we're talking about people with diabetes, or the health care professionals, they have to view it as something that's valuable. It's something that's going to move it along. And I think that, you know, even we make the site free, and we make them accessible to everything. But that's not that's not value value is the feeling like I learned something new. I'm going to apply it to my life. This is how the other person did it. These are technologies that can move me along in my journey with diabetes. And I think that that's what we're trying Well, that's what we're trying to do and hopefully we're we're achieving, and we can keep moving on and along with diabetes wise.

Scott Benner 59:56
Well, bravo. Thank you. I appreciate you doing it. I have other questions that don't have anything to do with this. But I don't want to muddle the the conversation up. So maybe I'll just ask you, if we haven't talked about anything that we should have before I let you go.

Korey Hood 1:00:13
No, I, you know, I really appreciate this time. And I also think, you know, a couple reflecting back on our conversation, I think that I want to just emphasize that diabetes wise is free, that we're, we have a bias toward getting people on devices, but we don't care which ones they are, it's kind of like you said, it's got to fit your life, it's got to be the best one for you. And I think that we have some, some features and some tools on it that help you figure out what that is, what is going to be the best fit for your life. And so then I shouldn't, you know, also note, you know, we've great relationship with the homes we trust, and we really support them from both the funding but also just the, they're, they're allowing us to do the things that we want to do with this and make it accessible to people. So

Scott Benner 1:01:04
David's been on the show. Yeah,

Korey Hood 1:01:07
I listened, I listened to it back and listen to is, and I realized you're you're approaching, you're probably approaching 1000 episodes soon, right? Like, sometime this year, or next year, you'll put

Scott Benner 1:01:17
out delightful and a couple of months, I O in a couple of months. Okay. So Cory, the same thing is, when when I was imagining all this, usually I used to keep this stuff private, but I guess nobody's gonna, like try to do it. So I guess I can just say what I'm doing. Most podcasts come out once a week, some come out once a month, there are people I know a person who tells me that their podcast is in its ninth season. But it has, you know, 80 episodes, I put, I put out 80 episodes in two months. Because for me, it's content. And it's keeping you here, right like because I don't know how to put this. But it's social media, if people don't understand social media is like trying to keep a rock hot with a match. As long as you hold the match on it, the rock is hot, the minute you take the match away, the rock is cool. And before you know it, someone else will come along and heat up a different rock. And that's it like so it has to be informative. It has to be accessible, you have to meet people where they are, it has to be entertaining, it has to be valuable. And it has to be plentiful. Like you I can't just put out an episode once a week and hope everyone remembers to come back. You don't mean like because in the last seven days, Netflix put out three different shows. You know, Joe Rogan had somebody on that everybody wanted to hear about and they're all yelling and screaming, there's too much going on. So I don't think of this as a podcast, as much of it as they think of it as a community. And it's a community of people who you don't meet. But I have to think of one of the one of the people who was on the show a couple of years ago. So young girl and like her mid to late 20s. And, you know, she told me she was coming on and telling me how much the podcast helped her. And we had a long conversation. I think like 45 minutes into it. I said, like, how did the podcast help you? I was like literally sitting back getting ready for my kudos about how I taught her how to Bolus or something like that. She goes, No, I knew all that before. And I said, Oh, I don't understand how the podcast helped you. Then she goes, I don't either. But when I listen, I want to do better. And that was it. When she said that I thought, well, then I can't just put up one episode this week, because what if that's not for her, I'm going to put up four. She'll want one of them. You know what I mean? Like one of them will meet her need this week. And that's how I think of it now. Like I just I want you to have a ton of options just like with these devices. And maybe you're not going to want three of them. But you'll want one that'll keep you here listening to other people's stories. And you know, 35 minutes into a story you might hear like, Oh, is that how you Bolus for pizza? I didn't know that. You know, what's a fat rise? Like how fascinating it is at Cory? How many people are using insulin to control their diabetes, and not one doctor has ever told you that fat slows down your digestion? And that's why you spike later. No one ever says that. You know what they say? You should see a nutritionist. Great. Yeah, yeah, that'll help me. Thanks a lot. So give me something I can work with here. Anyway, you get me all upset now. Cory I can I get

Korey Hood 1:04:18
right as we're wrapping up, I

Scott Benner 1:04:19
go on and on. I'm like, I just I just it. It just all seems like common sense. And and I have to say something. It's an aesthetic decision on your website. I don't know who made the decision. But using sort of just line drawings of devices in Azure graphics instead of images. It's it's nice because it really doesn't feel like a marketing tool. And it's clearly not but I mean, it could get shiny if you started using the images. It's a nice, it's a nice, small decision. Aesthetically. It's wonderful. Well,

Korey Hood 1:04:51
I appreciate you saying I don't know just call out the cell recruitment and the team that helped me which was a design company in San Francis so that we worked with closely on this, and Sarah has type one diabetes, and we found surrounding ourselves with a lot of people with diabetes has helped a lot of really smart people, you know, has helped us figure out some of these things. So that was her decision.

Scott Benner 1:05:16
That's wonderful. You tell Sarah if she ever wants to make some free graphics for a podcast, I know somebody will take her up on it. Great, thanks very much.

I want to thank Corey for coming on the show and remind you that you can check out diabetes wise at diabetes ys.org. And let's thank Omni pod and the contour next gen blood glucose meter for sponsoring this episode of the podcast, Omni pod.com Ford slash juice box get that free test drive or learn more about Omni pod five and Omni pod Dash. And of course contour next one.com forward slash juicebox. read up about our meter. Get one for yourself. Buy it right there online. The whole shebang. It's a great website. They're both great websites, they explain everything, using my links help support the show. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast. If you're looking for community around your diabetes, check out Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes on Facebook. And that group is for everybody. I know what the title says But uh, your type one, your type two. You're welcome. I don't care how you eat. I don't care anything about what you do. Your business is your business. Come on in. Check out the group. Watch some of the conversations jump in and get involved or just sit back and try to learn from others. Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes. There's something in there for everyone.