#659 Burnout

April 6, 2022Scott Benner

Erika is a licensed marriage and family therapist who herself has had Type 1 diabetes for over 30 years and who specializes in working with people with diabetes and their families and caregivers—from those newly diagnosed to those experiencing it for decades. She and Scott discuss burnout.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello, everyone, and welcome to episode 659 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Everybody, Erica Forsythe is back. Erica, of course is the licensed marriage and family therapist who's been on the show a whole bunch of times in a ton of different episodes. She also has had type one diabetes for well over three decades. And today, she came on this is something I guess, she came on to talk about burnout a little bit. And then I, I mean, she talked about it, she said everything she wanted to say but I completely took the conversation in a direction that was more about I don't know my, I guess my fascination with people's minds how they're built, fortitude versus struggle, that kind of stuff. I think it's really interesting. But I talked way more than I meant to there's something about Erica, that makes me very comfortable. Please remember, while you're listening that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan. Or becoming bold with insulin. If you wait for the end of the episode, Eric and I announce some things that we're going to do in the future together.

This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the Omni pod dash, a tubeless insulin pump that you may be eligible for a free 30 day trial of Learn more at Omni pod.com forward slash juicebox. Today's episode of the podcast is also sponsored by the Contour Next One blood glucose meter. It's little, it's accurate. It fits in your pocket. And it gives you those numbers those sweet sweet numbers. Super, super accurate, sweet, sweet numbers. Contour next one.com forward slash juicebox. Erica, the timing of this recording is interesting, because not too long ago, I recorded with Jenny about does Jenny burnout and being 1,000,000%? Honest, I didn't know what Jenny was going to say. Like I didn't like send Jenny a you know, an email and say, Hey, have you ever experienced burnout we should talk about on the podcast I just said let's talk about burnout. And she said okay, when she said that she hasn't ever really experienced that. I'm like, Okay, well, this is her truth. And let's talk about it. Well, Erica, then I got a number of messages from people who were not thrilled that I didn't talk to somebody who had been through birth. And I was like, Well, I've got Erica on the schedule coming up. So let's get to that instead. So, I mean, you understand, you know, the podcasts like I don't, I'm not setting things up to happen in a certain way. I just I had the conversation. Jenny, you know, is a specific person, and she's pretty great at managing herself. And on top of that is, uh, I don't know, she's an active person she eats well, like, you know what I mean? Like, maybe her diabetes is just easier to manage for some reason. Or maybe it's just specific to her wiring in her brain. Like, who knows, you know, but I do want to talk about the other side of it. And I'm excited that you're here. So welcome back.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 3:31
Yes. Well, thank you. I'm happy to be here. Yes. Talk about the burnout.

Scott Benner 3:35
So let's just start on a personal level, right? You've had diabetes forever and a half, right?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 3:41
Yes. 30 plus years? Actually, that's

Scott Benner 3:45
great. Because so is Jenny. So it's easy for me to remember that you're both over 30 years. Yes. I

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 3:49
think we're similar in our diagnosis. Yes. Am

Scott Benner 3:52
I crazy? So, alright, have you ever experienced it and and more, more specifically, when you hear the word burnout? What does it make you think of?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 4:04
I think yes. So I will speak to my own experience. But I think with burnout, I think of it can be either a short period of time, or you know, in really sad and tragic cases, it can be forever. And burnout is comes from, you're so exhausted, you're so overwhelmed. You're so frustrated and stressed by all of the management of diabetes, and I'm not just talking about the daily blood sugar, you know, checking whether it's finger picking CGM or the injections that the pump sites but it's also you know, the doctor's appointments, the blood draws the eye appointments. And so you could be burnout could look like well, maybe you're, you're bolusing but maybe you're not checking your blood sugar. Or maybe you're kind of going through the motions but you haven't been to the doctor, you haven't had your eyes appointments in yours, you haven't had to get your, you know, your blood drawn. And, again, I think it's really important to understand that burnout, it can be, I mean, it's not just like a one time situation maybe you're busy and you went didn't go to your doctor's appointment or you didn't feel like injecting for that one meal that one time, but it is a pattern behavior. But it can be reversible. If you are in a burnout stage right now listening to this, I also want to you know, speak cope into that experience, that you might feel like you are in a hole and alone and feel like you can't get out. But I want to encourage and speak Copan to those people who might be listening who are in a kind of burnout stage right now.

Scott Benner 5:50
I have a question. But before I ask it, I know you're using different headphones today and usually do or they appaled wired

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 5:56
headphones. They are wired Apple Yes. Do you want me to switch?

Scott Benner 6:00
I want your hair to stop touching them. Oh, okay. That's all okay. Or might be my scarf. Let me take that something's rubbing it. That's okay. Okay, thank you. No, no, please. Is that better? I won't know till you start talking again. So my initial question as a man, I mean, listen, I'm a neophyte on this. I don't have diabetes. But I have been alive for 50 years. And I feel like I've experienced burnout on a number of things in my life. So is it? Is it a similar feeling? And a similar situation to anything else? I mean, could a person just get sick of getting up every day at seven o'clock and going to work or cleaning the house? Or like things that are repetitive that feel burdensome? Like is that? I mean, is this a common human feeling? Or do you think it's very specific to diabetes?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 6:49
Oh, I think it's definitely a common human experience of feeling burnout, going up going to work, getting, you know, maybe getting the getting the kids to school, making dinner, cleaning the house doing all the normal errands of life. I would say maybe the difference is with diabetes, burnout, obviously, that affects your your life and your health. But it might and that is both physically and emotionally. And not to minimize burnout in other areas. Maybe you're, you're on a you're doing like a diet and exercise regiment, you can burn out from that for periods of time. And that's a normal human phenomenon. Right? And I think to anticipate and expect that is also healthy. So you're not feeling so shameful in those moments or ashamed of yourself?

Scott Benner 7:37
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. The only thing I can, but it made me think of just now when you said that, is that when my wife and I first got married, and we were talking about what we thought it meant to be married, you know, for your whole life. I remember saying, I don't know, like, by the time it's over, if we have, you know, eight, great years, nine, okay, years, three pretty great years, six crappy years, like, like, I don't know, like, I don't expect the whole thing to be not that I wouldn't work at it. But I would expect the ebbs and flows like Like everything else. And you don't mean like talking about this, just what you've been saying. First off, makes it feel so clear to me, that people need to understand that they haven't caught some special diabetes, flu, you know, what he mean? Like that this is how people's minds work. And that it could happen to you differently than it happens to me or more frequently, or less severe, etc. Like, it's not, it's not an experience, that's just, you know, it's not going to be one size fits all, I guess, is what I'm saying.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 8:42
Correct? Yeah. And I read a stat recently that over 50% of adults with type one experience, burnout or, and kind of a distress burnout situation, at least once a year. And I think what you were referencing, you know, in terms of your marriage, it's managing your expectations in terms of, can I live this perfect marriage or have a perfect diabetes, being a perfect diabetic, so to speak, and having this perfect straight line and all of the things I think it's okay to strive for excellence and to strive for healthy management, but in that, having appropriate expectations, helps prevent the disappointment and, and which then goes back to the shame and feelings of you know, pain and frustration and exhaustion and isolation, I think is the other big factor.

Scott Benner 9:44
Okay, and then commingled with health, which is what you were trying to say earlier, and then you're such a kind person, you you were like undaunted it couldn't happen to other people. But but your health is the I mean, it's really what makes it so emergent, right? Like if I if I burn out on vacuum The worst that's gonna happen is I have a dirty rug. If I burn out on Pre-Bolus thing, my a one C is gonna go up two points, then that's a different situation like it really is, it makes it more. I think I think you just said it, it makes it feel more like a failure, I would imagine. It makes it feel more panicky. And then you see people roll into that feeling all the time, like, well, you know, I mean, you know, like, I guess to bring it to a diet metaphor, like I already gained three pounds, What's five pounds, I already gained five pounds. What's, you know, I mean, like, my blood sugar is 150. Now, it's always 180. Now, it's always 200. And you just sort of incrementally I'll, you just you allow for more and more, because it starts to feel like, like, there's no way to get back to it. And I know that just something people struggle with, in general, like, how do I get back to where I mean to be when it feels like, this weight is on me? And it just gets heavier and heavier as times pass? So what's the answer to that question? Like, how do you reset? Is there a blanket statement for that? Or no?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 11:06
Oh, gosh, yes. Well, I think resetting I think the example you just shared, I would want to pause and say, Well, what what are you telling yourself? What are you thinking? What do you what are you thinking, which obviously affects your feelings, which affects your behaviors. And so if you're thinking, kind of your self talk is negative. And I'm never going to be able to get back to where I was, I'm never going to be able to figure out how to manage my blood sugar's in the way that I know I should, how. So kind of really, if you're in a very self deprecating, really negative self talk space, I think it would be healthy to reach out for help. And which is obviously a hard I know, we've talked about this a lot. It's a really hard first step. Because when you're in that zone of cycling through, I'm a bad diabetic, I can never figure this out. I'm always high. I'm or I'm always going up and down the roller coaster. I don't know how to do this. I think it is kind of a two prong approach. And I know we have talked about Will you need the tools to learn how to how to manage your blood sugar. Right. So one is one isn't having the skill set. But then also there's the the health and well being of your of your psyche and how you were talking to yourself, and how you're feeling about yourself in connection to your diabetes management. And that's when it's healthy. A healthy first step would be to reach out to your endocrinologist and asking for either some help or a referral to a therapist. Because I think that's when it's beneficial to not only learn the skill set of how to manage, but then also kind of process through How did you get to this place of feeling burnout? And what kind of feelings felt so overwhelming, that you stopped taking your insulin?

Scott Benner 13:06
So to me, this brings up the two these two things in my head that I think, support each other, or let me see what you think. Now, you know, because you've been on the podcast for a while, and who excuse me, I apologize. And people who listen know that for me. I mean, I'm not a mental health professional, and I don't have diabetes, but it's always been my hope or my assertion that having good tools would make management easier. And when I met and when that management is easier, that hopefully that would alleviate some of the burden some feelings that diabetes brings. I know that's not 100% True. I know it's not going to work for everybody. I've talked to people who understand management backwards and forwards and still, you know, experience exactly what we're talking about today. But you you brought up something, I'm going to use the wrong word here and you're going to correct me okay. But attitude. And I know it's not attitude when it's mental health, but it's what is it? It's intense. It's how you move forward. It's the like, I feel like you're talking about a bigger subject. I think you're talking I feel like you'll tell me if I'm wrong. I feel like you're talking about just fortitude like general life fortitude, and that you're going to run into things. And that if your expectation or your response is oh here something went wrong. I guess the whole thing's in the crapper. I'll just give up versus somebody who runs into a problem and just does not relent. They press forward and press for and I know that's not always a conscious decision that can be made that some people's brains are just wired differently. But I mean, is that what you're saying is it's just about how you attack the problem and how you think of it.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 14:59
I I would agree to that. Yes, a little bit. I think it's about mindset, right? And how either how you're wired or how you've learned to respond to either trauma. I mean, obviously with this is that because it's chronic management, right? Learning how to manage your diabetes is a forever thing. And so having a positive mindset is definitely helpful. But just because you have a positive outlook, attitude, Mantra mindset, doesn't mean that you won't experience these challenging emotions at some point. Yeah, I think then learning then knowing what to do with them is the next step. Because what, and I think we're kind of getting more into, like, what we people would define as distress, diabetes, distress, like, you can still have an amazing a one C, you can still know how to manage and Pre-Bolus and do all of the all the things that you have, you know, taught so well on the podcast, but maybe you're still have a fear of hypoglycemia. Or maybe you still are struggling around food, or maybe you're still struggling around how people engage with you, whether it's friends or family about type one, but you know how to manage it well. And so those still, those little moments can still cause this distress. Throughout your life, even if you've if you know how to manage, yeah, and then that, then it's okay, I'm starting to feel overwhelmed. I'm hearing myself say, I'm so irritated by diabetes, why do I have to have this? Or why does? Why do my friends at school? Keep talking to me about it? Or why do they keep saying, Can you eat that? Can you eat that, like those if they're little, those are like little blips on the radar that will happen, you know, for our entire life. And then it's learning how to respond to like, it's okay to have those feelings. Obviously, it's okay to be frustrated. It's I talk about a lot with my, my families, my and my clients, it's okay to be angry and frustrated with having type one, right? That's a normal response, and said, Okay, now, what are we going to do with that? Can we express it? Can we process that, as opposed to then spiraling further further into a hole? Right, which then leads to the burnout? Does that make sense? It does. Okay,

Scott Benner 17:21
I'm not a Listen, I'm not a I'm not a bootstraps person, like I would never turn to you and be like, try harder. You know what I mean? Like, I don't feel that way. And I understand that a lot of people have a lot of different impacts that maybe are lifelong, or, you know, something that makes this trauma feel, you know, reflective of something that's happened to them in the past. I only have myself like, I only know that I raised like, I don't I'm always I'm endlessly interested about this. Because my wife grew up in a tough situation. I grew up in a much harder situation. I don't know why. I'm a head down, keep moving move forward person and not a oh my god, what happened to me, this is a disaster. I give up. And I don't think I can take credit for it is what I'm saying. And I don't you know what I mean? Like, I don't know what it is about me or the situation that I came through and all the people who impacted me along the way, or didn't, I just turned out the way I turned out. And so is it just as simple as like, you know what I mean? Like, I know, I'm asking like a deeper question that you probably don't have the answer to but, but is it just random? Is it just random that, that I'm the God? Like, if the zombies come, Erica, come find me. We're living through it. Okay. I don't know why. I just know, Scott wins in the end, okay. It's how it's how it's just always gone for me. How is that a function of my decision making? Is it a function of something that happened to me in the past? And is it and and what about the person who sees the zombies and just lays down and goes, Okay, eat me. Surrender. Yeah, you know, like, like, that's not that's, they can no more be told that they're at fault for that, then I can be given credit for my response. That's how I think about it, but I don't know how that helps people.

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Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 23:18
And I feel like we're talking about you know, is it is it resilience? Is it and and how is that? Is it nature? Is it nurture? is a little bit of both? I would I would look at you know, what was your what was modeled for you and your family? As a child? What was what kinds of other traumas or stressors were you exposed to as a child? And how did you see the people around you respond to those? Yeah. You know, for some families when their child is diagnosed, it can be a very, I mean, it's obviously traumatic for anyone in the beginning. And then there are some families who say we're going to this isn't going to stop you. We're going to do all the things all the time. And then there are some families who it might it might take longer for them to get to that kind of baseline. Okay, we've we're going to get through this and that's okay.

Scott Benner 24:11
So I I'm not minimizing anything, but I can tell you raising my kids that, you know, Arden got hit once in the knee with a softball while she was pitching by a much bigger girl. And I mean it down to her like he went down hard, right? And my wife's like, go check on her. I was like the coaches with her. And she's like you have to go out to and I'm like, she'll be alright letter. I Kelly's panicking. I'm like, Kelly, listen, if she's dead, she's already dead. There's nothing we can do about it. I said, But, but Right. But this is literally what I said to my wife. Don't be jealous ladies. And I said if she's dead, she's already dead. There's nothing we can do about it. But if she's going to be okay, one day, let her figure it out on our own for a minute. Like let's not make her think that every time something happens to her we're going to run behind her scoop her up and be like it's okay. And I did make my way to her. But not you don't mean like I wasn't running on the field screaming my baby, you know, like it was right away, let it play out that little girl, you guys will know Arden now is being five, seven and oh, she's a woman. But back then Arden was five, three, she weighed like 90 pounds. And she was tiny. And she got up, continued to pitch the inning, got the rest of her outs, bunted in the next inning, ran the first and then walked over to me and said, I think I should stop playing. Okay. So I said, Hey, no problem, what's wrong? And she's like, My knee is really swelling up. And I said, okay, so Oh my gosh. But that little moment, I think is why when you hear Arden interviewed on the podcast, you say to yourself, like, that kid just sounds like she doesn't even care that she has diabetes, because on some level, I don't think she does. Like I think that it's not I should say that it's not a number one stressor in her life. And it is a pain in the butt. Like she just came in here. 20 minutes before you and I recorded. She comes in and she goes, Hey, let's go get lunch and I said, I'm gonna record with Eric. And now I can't and she's like, Ah, she made a little disappointed face. And then I said, um, but I'll be done in about an hour. I'm gonna jump in the shower, we can go. And she's like, Okay. And then I said, is your pump almost out of insulin? And I watched her thing her eyes rolled back in her head. She thought and she goes, Yeah, I'll go change it. And I was like, okay, and she loved it. But no, like, no, like Scarlett O'Hara moment? No, what was me? I can't believe this is happening. You know? And I don't know, like, to me. It's a fine line when you're raising children, right? Like you. You have to let them stand on the edge by themselves. But they have to know you're there. But not feel like they don't have to do it. But But what happens if you're 19 or 20 years old? That's not how you were raised? What if somebody I don't want to say coddled, because I really do think, Erica, that when people talk about this nowadays? It's just? I don't know, I think it's I don't know, I don't think they talk about it correctly. I think people make overly simplified generalizations. We coddle kids now, you don't I mean, pressure makes diamonds. And they don't say anything else. Like, alright, well, pressure also makes you pressure also makes anxiety ridden people like, flip there. You know, you have to support people. You know, I hate using these likes. I hate using Office words, but you have to meet people where they are. So I can't believe I just said that. I feel like that was that was really good. I know. But I feel like an idiot say like, it's like if I ever said let's think outside of the box, I'd be the right person to be like, Oh, Scott, shut up. But, but it's just 100% True. You have to meet people where they are you have to raise your children who they are, not who you want them to be or what you think a perfect scenario would be. So then my question keeps coming back to me is now we've kind of covered the parenting aspect of it. I mean, if no one's paying attention, what I'm saying to you is let your kids struggle a little bit, but not too much. You figure out where it fits my opinion. But what I really want to hear from you is adults or adolescent children, or people you see in your practice, they come in, and this is how they see the world. It's against them. They're losing, it's too hard. Where do you where do you where would you begin to get somebody back and say, This is no harder for you than this for anybody else. And that person is doing great. Let's get you thinking more like that person?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 28:37
Well, I would never say that. But

Scott Benner 28:39
you wouldn't have a professional. Erica, you understand like? Good? Well, I

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 28:45
would first I would commend them for taking the first step for seeking help. Because that's often you know, the most challenging thing when you're in a state of burnout or high distress. I think I would also be curious to learn about their upbringing. You know, thinking about your story or softball story with Arden. I was wondering, you know, when you were a little boy, how were you tended to when you got hurt or had a hard day at school.

Scott Benner 29:19
I grew up in the 70s. I was taught to swim by being thrown in a pool and somebody's going he probably won't drown. When I fingers crossed when I was picked on it as a child, I can't believe I have to pull references in a row. But when I was picked on as a child can 1112 years old by the kid in I grew up in an apartment complex. The kid in the apartment complex that basically terrorized everyone he was older and bigger and stronger. In my mind. He was like Lou Ferrigno. I'm sure he wasn't. He would hold us underwater in the pool during the summertime. And I and my mom told me figure it out.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 29:58
There you go. There you go. Go figure it out. You were, you know, you were encouraged to, and I'm sure there was some sort of safety, sense of safety and nurturing, but also because you you do that as a father or your, you've learned that. And so I would be curious to hear just kind of what has been their history of dealing with stress. And when things are hard, how do they respond, I also would spend a lot of time normalizing the experience because being feeling like you're in a state of burnout, and you're, you're stressed out and overwhelmed, it's not. It's not a complication. It's not a sight. It's not, yeah, it's not a complication of having type one, or diabetes, type two, it doesn't matter. It's a part of living with it. And so I think helping, helping the client see that they're, they're not alone is a huge part of healing and growth, because I think you do get stuck in that. I'm the only one who can't figure this out. I'm the only one who's so burdened by living with this chronic illness. And so it is it is a normal part of living with type one. And so and then moving into a place of compassion as a result, I think once you realize that you're you're not alone, you can start to be kinder to yourself. And that's also another step towards healing is just learning how to nurture yourself and be compassionate and kind that way that maybe you didn't experience as a child and needed to

Scott Benner 31:48
how much of this is about your expectation for what should be?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 31:52
Oh, I think it's, it's majority of like, I having your expectation that it's everything is your going to be perfect. And get, you know, the time everything perfectly, have the correct response. And all of it is a big is a big part of it. And so I think understanding that you can't be a perfect, quote, diabetic, that you are going to have in there, they're going to be moments, not just like mistakes on it on a daily basis, or like whoops, I Bolus, you know, four units, I should have probably done double that or should have started that, you know, people sooner. That's, that's totally normal. But then also being kind to yourself when you when you're in when you're in burnout. So it's like they think they practicing self compassion in the moment to moment, but then also in the larger, you know, grander scheme of where you are emotionally.

Scott Benner 32:53
So you hear people say this, I think they're half and joking, and they're half being serious. But I've heard a lot of people say this, and I have to be honest with you, I I subscribed to this a little bit as I was coming up. So again, it's not diabetes, but I grew up really broke. My dad left when I was 13. We didn't have any money. My mom was always working. I was raising my brothers. By the time I was 13 and a half, like, you know, they were like, in five. I have the bar set so low, Erica. I walk across the room and nothing bad happens. I'm like we are winning. Finally, coming together for Scott, and like, so I really do think that I think that because I was I because I grew up in a situation that just wasn't full of things going the way you wanted or wins. Then anytime something went even reasonably, right. I was like, Hey, we're removing like, we're moving forward. I'm getting there, you know. And I don't I mean, obviously, nobody wants my upbringing. But I don't know how you I remember feeling when my kids were little that we had, we had a send a little bit, my wife and I had better our lives. And I remember worrying, where is my son's friction going to come from? Mm hmm. You know, like, how can you? How can he How can he learn to see the zombies and laugh? If everything that happens to him is always perfect. And that anytime something goes wrong? It's tough. I'll tell you right now, his health had been perfect till he was 21 when he got Hashimotos he had a much harder time with it than Arden would have. Because nothing had gone wrong in 21 years for him. And it was it was it was more of a process now that's when my wife and I come in and support him. And you know, it's tough because you're you're supporting a person who might not want to hear your support at times. So you have to kind of be like a ninja about when you slip it in sometimes and not go too far. And there's a whole there's a skill set in too into getting thoughts into people's heads without, without them pushing back so hard that you don't get to say the next thing. But I don't know, I just to me expectations got to have a lot to do with it. And from there it's perspective.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 35:14
Yes. And I think also what you're talking about is like, because you went through the challenging times, not only did that build resilience, but its sense of, you know, grit, that's a big term these days in the mental health world is, which a lot of people also experienced, you know, but now coming out of the pandemic of like, this sense of grit, like we can get through this, but that doesn't always end and also, the challenges has brought you to a place of gratitude. And so I think, fine, it's like finding that balance of okay, I can experience the stressors and these hard moments. But you also have found, at least in your own story, you know, moments of gratitude, when things are things go well, and you're, you're excited and you celebrate.

Scott Benner 36:03
Yeah, I also think that on social media, I'm not a big proponent of, you know, blaming social media for things, but I do get why seeing people struggle online is important. Like I like when people share honestly, I guess, because then you can look and go, Oh, hell, like, that happens to me, I thought I was the only one but happen to that person, too. I try my hardest to balance, hope about management of diabetes on the podcast with remembering to tell people like my kids, blood sugar is not always 90. You know, they may not like I know it, could I know you can hear Arden's a one C and think, Oh, she must walk around with a 92 blood sugar constantly. Straight line all day long. Yeah, now that works. And so but but what I do is, I limit highs, I limit the length of spikes, like I get, you know, I don't you know, where some people, you know, think of as a higher number, you get the 140, I start getting a little like a I don't like how this is going, you know, 180 I consider high. And all I learned about that, that that example for Arden's care was that at 180, I could crush that high and bring it back down without creating a low. So I just changed in my mind the definition of a high blood sugar. That's all I did, right? Because prior to that, I thought High was 300. Right? Right. And that's it. So I just decided that high went one ad, which changed how I reacted to things, which changed my outcome was like that. So and but somebody needs to say that to you once so that, you know. And I mean, Eric, I don't know how much you actually get to listen to this podcast. But I've spoken to just I mean, close to 1000 people at this point. Now, and everyone's stories are fairly similar. The reasons why people do well versus struggle. There's a ton of similarities in there, most of the time, it's got nothing to do with them. It's got to do with the random stuff, like meeting the right doctor, or having a parent who didn't help too much and didn't help too little, you know, having some hope. Like, like meeting people who have diabetes, hearing other people's stories, like all these very common through lines. Yes. You know what I mean? Like, in the end? I think that's, I mean, that's what we're talking about, right? Like, we're not just talking about how do you save somebody who's so far down the burnout hole that they can't see the light anymore? You're also talking about? How do you stay out of it to begin with or limit your time in it? I think,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 38:32
yes. And I think all of those things are very common, you know, key factors in helping you survive, living with type one, you know, the community, not feeling like you're alone, having the support, having a doctor who understands having the hope, I think as a human belief that you're going to be okay, and hope that you it won't it there will be moments and seasons where diabetes might feel more challenging. And there are all sorts of you know, those, they're the normal stressors of life. And, but understand that it's not always going to be like that. I think that's, that's a common misunderstanding. And when you're feeling down, you feel like you're always gonna feel that down. But to remember that, you know, those those it passes, it does pass and to have hope and understanding that it will helps you kind of get through those stages.

Scott Benner 39:34
It feels to me like expecting that everything isn't going to be perfect without dreading that everything isn't going to be perfect is a big key, right? Like knowing that. I mean, listen, everyone has who uses insulin is going to agree with that. I'm gonna say doesn't matter how well things are going in the back of your head you're like, This is gonna get sideways at some point. I don't know when and I don't know why. but I am gonna just like, you know, all of a sudden, like see a blood sugar is just creeping 9110 120 You're like, Oh God, this is never gonna stop. I haven't said this a little while but those kinds of those kinds of blood sugars that remind me that price is right.

Unknown Speaker 40:14
Yes, the claiming Yeah.

Scott Benner 40:17
Yeah, yeah. Cuz they they're like yo Lee and there's this you're like that happens and the whole time you're watching it you can see the person playing the game like it's gonna stop. It's gonna stop, it's gonna stop and then it doesn't it falls off the edge. Yes, that's how I That's how. That's how I think of those climbing blood sugars. On a side note, a woman sent me a text today and asked me if I was dyslexic because she said that Dyslexics think in pictures. I'm not dyslexic, but I never heard that before. Yeah, visual. Yeah, I just, I just my brain makes connections to things that don't appear to have anything to do with.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 40:53
Well, you I was right there with you. I was totally envisioning the guy climbing the mountain. I can hear

Scott Benner 41:01
the yodeling. I mean, I don't even think Drew Carey, I think Bob Barker, and that

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 41:04
Oh, for sure. Oh, no, for sure. Yes, Tiny. Microphone. He

Scott Benner 41:08
had everything? Yes. But so like when you're in that situation, and people have heard me say it on the podcast a lot. And I believe in it, like one of the keys to diabetes management is not to give into the drama. And like, that's how I used to think of it. But as we're having this conversation, I mean, it might be a little reductive to say drama, but at the same time, I'm not going to apologize for it. Because I mean it and I think it's accurate. You can't have something happen and start running around like, Oh, what was me this is i This is how it's gonna be everything sucks. You, to me, you use that moment to try to figure it out. It's an example for you to look at, you make a better decision next time with insulin, which is most likely where it went wrong. And, and and it's a learning experience, because every time you ignore a learning experience, it becomes a, it's a it's another problem. That's just going to happen again. And you know, so what I see happen to people, when I'm kind of watching them online and talking to them, is that some people throw themselves into the despair. And some people steel up their spine and fight back. I'm endlessly fascinated by who is who.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 42:20
Right and how, how did they get there? Right?

Scott Benner 42:23
Oh, I'm never gonna not be interested in that. Yes. You know, I don't think there's an answer, like I said, but it's fascinating to me.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 42:32
Oh, absolutely. And I think yeah, there is no kind of general summary statement that you can make as to how or why you fall into either category. I think it's, it's all it's all the factors that we, that we talked about.

Scott Benner 42:48
So I'm going to draw a line here. Okay, you're probably gonna disagree with me. But anyway, that's what will make this fun. Okay, and I'm not saying dollar for dollars, apples to apples. Okay. But in the last handful of years, in society in general, online, specifically, I feel like I'm seeing people who want to be upset. Does that make sense? Like not that like, like, they, they're, I don't know, somebody says something social or political or something like that. And if you're just reasonable about it, and step back, you go, alright, I see what they're saying. Or, you know, I don't agree, but whatever. But instead, they feel like that's an opening to proselytize their idea. Right. Like, it's almost like they're looking for an opening to say something. Mm hmm. I wonder if, similarly, but not the same. If when something goes wrong in someone's life, if they're just, they're just almost happy, and maybe subconsciously happy to have a reason to complain? Like, they just want to tell the world like, this sucks. I have diabetes. And you can't say that to people. You can't walk around going, oh my god, everything's terrible. I gotta shoot that I got this pump on. I'm doing this. I hate all this. Right, like, so it's just a great opportunity to commiserate maybe just with yourself. Because there's no one else. Like, that's what I'm starting to think like, do you just does it give you the opportunity to just sit down for a second and feel bad for yourself? Because you don't have anybody else to talk about it with day to day? Like, I don't know how and I guess

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 44:23
you're wondering like, is that how people kind of get to a stage of burnout? Or you're saying is that an opportunity for them to it's okay to validate the challenges to yourself

Scott Benner 44:33
as ironic as this is gonna sound? I think both. I think that it's, I don't think there's anything wrong with stopping for a minute and going oh, my God, this is hard. I wish this was not happening to me. But I don't know how valuable that is for you to do with any real consistency. I have had my absolute thoughts. I have stood in a room privately and thought how the hell did this happen to my kids? When I look around I see so Are many other people who do not have concerns like this. How is my smart and funny and pretty daughter always worried about this thing or always having to think about this thing or waking up in the morning and tell me hey, my stomach hurts. I don't know what it's from. Or, you know, the other night, Erica, her toes started to go numb. Oh, Arden's been Arden's been tested for everything under the sun. And she, she has hypothyroidism and type one diabetes. Like there's nothing that points to any other thing. Addison's or whatever, whatever anyone's gonna hear and think of next, right. Trust me, we've looked, okay. So I believe, thank you. And yet, here's my daughter trying to do homework. Dad, my toes are numb, can you just squeeze them? So they don't hurt like this till it stops? 17? Why is that gonna happen to her? And and if I were to think that over and over again, that would crush me. Right? So I squeeze your toes, and then we get up and we keep moving. You don't mean like you? You just can't like, Eric, it's too much, it'd be too much. Like, I think the problem that I just realized with this conversation, is that I think of myself, I think of myself as a person who's going to beat the zombies. And I believe that, but I don't know that that's true. I just think it's important that I believe it. Right? You know, I mean?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 46:29
Gosh, I think you just touched on a lot of different things. I think having the space, like I see, you know, in the Facebook group, who are like, particularly people who are newly diagnosed, often caregivers will will share and grieve. And they receive the validation. And I think that's a beautiful place to share your initial grief and and then you receive the the validation and the community support. It's just, it's beautiful. And I see that all the time. That's totally healthy, and appropriate, I think. And then you're wondering, but how I think we want to look at is it becoming a pattern in your response to living with the chronic illness or being the caregiver for it? I think, yes, it is so normal and healthy, to to commiserate and to let them out. And say I cannot believe we're still dealing with this or now where you know, all the like the transitions going into high school, going into college, having children, maybe your your doctor moves, or you have to change insurance, and you have to change doctors, all of those things. Or you have you been on all all of the different factors in management. Within life transitions are definitely opportunities to to vent and grieve with your, with your family, with community. But I think you're wondering, like, when does that become? If that is your automatic thought and response to daily management, whether you are the person with type one or the caregiver, then that would be a time to maybe look internally and say, Gosh, I'm not sure I know how to manage this emotionally. And I need to reach out for more professional help, right, because I think I do want to normalize that the process of grieving. And that's what it is. I just think if you're feeling the loss of normalcy, but then you're having that balance, sorry,

Scott Benner 48:29
no, no, you have to be able to talk to some, I mean, in the end, if we if we strip all this down, you're a little kid, you didn't get good communication for your parents, or you didn't get good communication from a doctor or you didn't have good communication with other people who have diabetes. And now here you are these problems that you thought, Oh, this is never gonna affect me, I'm good start to pile up on you. You have to go seek out someone to talk to like it could be Erica, if you live in California, or worry, it could be a friend or I know a lot of people listen to the show because hearing other people's problems helps alleviate their own. You know, like whatever it is, but you can't just sit there and hope it's not going to happen or that it's going to go away. Because that's not gonna work. That's just going to get worse and worse and worse. Right now is conversation about it too, no matter where you have the conversation.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 49:22
Yes and then and then learning how to because as we know there will be challenging moments with with not just diabetes but in life and learning how to respond how to give yourself that like the validation and then having to move on and I'm sorry to hear about artists toes by the way, I skipped over I wanted to say they hope that you that it becomes resolved. You're very

Scott Benner 49:43
nice. We're gonna cut our toes off and fix something if we had all Verto surgically removed then the tip of her foot started to tingle. Oh my gosh. Anyway, then it would turn into like a weird horror movie where eventually Arden would just be a nub. Anyway That's not here nor there. We're not going to cut off her toes. She has an appointment in a couple of days with a integrative endocrinologist and we're gonna just keep, we're gonna keep hacking away until we figure something out. But we're not going to stop living while we're trying to figure it out. Meaning meaning that if Listen, I'm not saying that this is the truth, but meaning that if Arden's life is, you know, let's say her health is let's say we have a crystal ball, we can see the future and Arden's health is going to completely degrade by the time she's 35. And she's going to spontaneously combust. Like, I still wouldn't sit around today and go woe is me, I'd be like, get the college, learn the thing, get good at what you're doing, meet people live your life. I think that's just super important to remember that, that this is gonna sound so hippy, but you're not promised any certain amount of time. And so the truth is, you just got to live the best you can day to day. And you know, some people, some people get to walk through a field of flowers through their life, and not too much goes wrong for them. And some people are being shot with arrows while they're trying to walk forward through that, that field of flowers. But in my mind, I want to be the guy that gets hit with the arrow and doesn't stop. Like, I want to, I want to take as many of them as I can before I give up. And I just think that that's you can think of it a different ways. Like maybe it's fake it till you make it. Or maybe it's just a little bit of little blip of blind ignorance on my part. But one way or the other. I know what the alternative is. The alternative is it's over. And that's not okay for me. So I'd rather walk through that field of flowers with it with an arrow in my shoulder, then not see the field of flowers at all. I don't know, that's just kind of how I think about life. Like, I don't know how long this is gonna last. I'm not missing any of it. That's

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 51:51
yeah, so I love that. And I think Yeah. And how did you get there? It's all you know, your life experience.

Scott Benner 51:59
You're bringing Erica.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 52:02
Oh, my gosh. Oh, and then and then you've learned you've learned to how you want to face your day and your life. I think, as you were talking about, you know, you're you guys are live, you're moving forward. But you also are getting the doctor's appointment to kind of explore if there's something else going on. For Arden, I think that's you're able to break down, that there's this bigger concern what is happening, but you can break it down into smaller chunks, you are taking it one day at a time. I think that part of what also leads to the feeling of over I'm so overwhelmed. I have to I'm just giving up. Obviously, that's not always a conscious decision. It's just feeling like I don't even know how to get back to, you know, ground zero in terms of my functioning emotionally, physically with my management. And so finding ways to break it down and just say, Okay, well, I'm going to make an appointment. I'm going to do this, I'm not going to fix everything today. I think that's another helpful way to respond.

Scott Benner 53:03
I'll break it down into two sentence for anybody's listening, get your Basal right Pre-Bolus Your meals, everything's gonna get a lot easier. And when it gets easier, go listen to the pro tips and make other like adjustments. I seriously mean that I don't listen, it's a good first step. You're sure five people or 5 million people listen to those pro tips. I don't make any more or less money. I don't you know, I'm just telling you, I think the informations in there. I think Jenny and I laid it out really well. And it's a way that's absorbable it's not overwhelming. And you really will see a difference. You be surprised you get those high blood sugars down and more stable, how much better you feel and how much better that makes you at being able to weather a bad day. You don't mean because you're not already. I mean, we don't talk about it enough, right? But high blood sugars, swinging blood sugars, they affect your emotions, too. And your and your guess your clarity, everything.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 53:54
They in two ways they affect your emotions, not only like physically because you don't feel you don't feel good physically, which makes you feel emotionally not well. But then I think there's also like the self efficacy, self competency part of it too. Like not only do you feel physically yucky, and then you might have the I can't even figure this out.

Scott Benner 54:13
You got file you're on top of it. Yeah. Oh, I'll tell you I just I love. I love talking about stuff like this. But you know, I just want to say this might be clinically improper. And you can do your own disclaimer afterwards. I do not. I don't ascribe to what Scott just said. But I think if you're struggling sometimes and you're listening to another person, whether it's on this podcast or it's me now or whatever it is, and you think God I wish I was more like that in that situation. Just steal it from me for a little while. Just pretend like there's nothing wrong with just pretending until I do think fake it till you make it's a real thing. You know, I there's nothing wrong with saying other people do this. Damn it. I bet you I could too. And even though this feels completely wrong to me right now. I'm just going to, I'm going to say the right things. And I'm going to do the right things. And I'm going to believe it. And maybe because the truth is, the truth is that the difference between success and failure is really just, it's just taking the right steps. Do you know what I mean by that, like you can, you can paint a wall, right? Or you can paint a wall wrong. If I teach you how to paint a wall correctly, you don't have to know about painting to paint the wall anymore. Somebody showed you what to do you do it when you're done, the walls got paint on it, five, or six or seven or 10 walls later, you actually know how to paint the wall. And then you get the outcome that you expect. So there's nothing wrong, I don't think there's anything wrong with that idea. Just to model somebody who's having success until you can create that success for yourself. Am I completely off on that? Or

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 55:53
no, I think I think that can work for many people having you know, it's like the mantra of like, I can do it. I'm gonna, here's, this is what I'm supposed to do. I'm gonna model what I see other people do. I'm going to fake it. And I'm going to tell myself, I have hope and belief in myself. And I think for many people that might be all they need is having that mentor having the tools. Yeah, I think there are others who might need more support getting to that place to have the hope to be able to say, I know I can do this, or I believe in myself. I know, I just need to do X, Y and Z. And so I just want to also speak to people who might be listening who are feeling like, well, I can't even say that, I can't even pretend I can't even try and fake it. Because I'm so low, I'm struggling so much. And, and that's okay to you know, to be in a place where you feel like I can't even I can't even imagine faking it till I make it because I can't even get out of bed. And so I just want to speak some compassion into that group as well, that it's okay if you're in that zone. But I think for many people, that might be the first step to having that mantra. Yeah. Has it happened to you? Did it? Did burnout ever happen to me? Yeah. I would say not in the sense of a long period of time. But I can say, burnout often might look like and this happens to a lot of the the teens that I've worked with as well, when I was a teenager, just wanting to be, quote, normal and fit in. And so maybe this was back in the day with, you know, fingerprints and injections where I wouldn't take my blood sugar. For, I wouldn't say it was all day. But there are definitely moments over long periods of time where I would not take my blood sugar because I just didn't want to deal with it, I would still inject. But that was not positive. You know, there weren't always positive outcomes with that. And so I would say burnout can look like in certain stages of life. Just wanting to ignore, like, you don't have type one, to a certain extent, and so that I did experience that for sure as a teenager in high school.

Scott Benner 57:59
Back then, when I was younger, my friend decided to not have diabetes for a week. Then he was in the hospital, he was in decay. But if he told me afterwards, he's like, I just didn't want to do it for one week. You know, and I don't know what led him to that. And I can't ask him now because he's gone. But I guess I think we spoke about him. Yeah, but I just remember like, so clearly it happening. He just disappeared one day. And I was like I called his house. It's not like he's in the hospital, and then spoke to him afterwards. And that's all he said. He said, I just didn't want to do it for one week. But sadly, that's not the way it works. So, Eric, I've been mulling over for a half an hour where I want to tell this story, you're gonna be so horrified by it. But please remember that it happened like over 40 years ago, okay, okay. My dad grew up on a farm. And if I disagreed with him, he'd yell at me if I didn't agree with him after that. He'd smack me that was just sort of that was the process. Okay. And I remember one day, I don't know what we were talking about. But I can tell you that I was only maybe 12 years old. And he was physically imposing as a as a person, but specifically to me at 12. He looked like a, like, he looked like a monster to me. Like he was huge, you know, and he was yelling at me for something. And I knew he wasn't right. And I could have easily just said, like, alright, yeah, I'm sorry. And instead, I tried to, I tried to converse with him, which, you know, always goes really well when someone's yelling at you. And I pointed out where I thought I was right. And he didn't like that. And he smacked me. And I, I did it again. I responded again. And I think the next time he hit me, I stumbled, and I went to the ground. Like, I really want to be clear. Not that it matters. He did not knock. He didn't hit me hard enough to knock me off my feet. I literally backed up and like stumbled over something. But once I was on the ground it was too much effort to reach down to hit me. So he just started doing it with his foot instead. And it wasn't like in a movie, like he wasn't kicking me in the stomach and doubling me over, he was just like, again, not making I genuinely, I'm not, I'm not covering from A to B thing to do, no one should do it. I don't care if it was the 70s, the 80s, the 90s, or whatever, I'm not saying that, I just want to let you know, he was not kicking me to my death. And so he's now re asking the question, and saying things like, Do you agree with me now? And then I'd say no, oh, my goodness, he kicked me. And so at some point, I gathered up all of my strength. And I said, you can hit me as much as you want, it's not going to make you right. And he stopped. And I remember that moment as a triumph in my life. I don't remember it as being smacked. I don't remember it as being abuse, I remember it as me standing up for myself, and actually, being able to change make an effect of change. Like, I don't think it changed him. I don't think it made him less of who he was. But from there forward, he did not try to pressure me out of my opinion ever again. And I know that's not what's supposed to happen in a parenting relationship. I'm not, I'm not saying any of that. I'm saying, sometimes, you have to look this stuff in the face, and just be like, and just get angry. And, and stick up for yourself, kind of no matter what's gonna happen, like, in the end, like, your it, like you and your health, and this diabetes thing and all that comes with it. I think at some point, you just got to stand in front of that monster and be like, I don't care what you do. I don't give up. And I don't know, I just think I think that's a big part of who I am. And, and as much as I don't want to have a memory of being smacked as a kid. It's one of my most enduring prideful moments.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:02:05
Well, Scott, think Well, thank you for being vulnerable and sharing that. I feel like that depicts and explains why and how you are the person today and how you respond to trauma. How old were you again, when this happened?

Scott Benner 1:02:24
I couldn't move maybe 11 or 12 years old?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:02:27
Wow. Yeah. Did you ever have an opportunity to share that? I mean, I don't know if you like kind of relationship you had with your dad as an adult, or if he's a lifestyle, I'm sorry, I don't know that.

Scott Benner 1:02:39
He left about a year later. And I didn't see him until I was an adult. And maybe more than a handful of times, at the end of his life. Uh, we did see him and explained to him how all that felt. At that point. He was an older man. It's so interesting with guys, like once the testosterones gone, they're just different. You know what I mean? Like, it wasn't, I wasn't talking to the guy that smack me when I was 11. When you know, when he was in his 70s. But, you know, we were very clear with him about how I took my brothers to meet him one day, and I said, Look, I don't think we're here to make a relationship. We are here to unburden ourselves. Do not worry about how he feels you tell him how you feel. And so we did. We did that. And I mean, I was at his deathbed when he died. And I was quite glad that I was there. So yeah, I feel I don't have any that I'm aware of lingering concerns about it at all. It was also the 70s Like people hate each other for like, any reason whatsoever, it wasn't uncommon for this to happen. Erica one time I shot my brother with a BB gun just to see what would happen that 70s By the way, always wondering, it hurts like hell,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:03:57
yeah. Oh, wow. I think I mean, not only did that story is obviously a part of your, your growth and, you know, character development, but that also was who you are. I mean, in that moment, that was who you are, you were, you know, sticking up for yourself for truth. And so you had, it feels like you had you were born with a sense of grit.

Scott Benner 1:04:22
I want to I want to be clear that I think you are who you are in your mind. Like, like, if you're thinking back on if you're hearing that story of First of all, you're horrified. I appreciate that. I'm sorry, I had to tell it to you. But if you're picturing me as like some sort of like, in shape, buff, 12 year old kid who has that, like I was a little fat kid. Like I had no reason to stick up for myself seriously, Arca like there was nothing imposing about me. There was no that man did not think I was gonna stand up and turn the tide on him get on. I mean, like it was. All I had was what was in my heart and in my head, like that's how I think of myself. I almost don't even know what I look like. Like him. I my thoughts. That's how I that's how I think of myself. And I can't imagine something you could give me that I don't think I could conquer, I'm, I'd be wrong. But I can't imagine that thing. And there's nothing about the way I grew up that gave me any kind of confidence, like not nothing like that. I just, I don't know, I just tried to remain true to what I expect for myself. And I think I think everybody, that's a simple thing for people to do, to say I want to be healthy. And I don't want my blood sugar's to jump all over the place, damn it, and I can stand up to this and make a change. And if you don't know what to do, functionally with diabetes, just find please like it's in this podcast or find someone else. Because a lot of this goes away when you're not chasing blood sugar's around constantly. It's a huge, it's that, that that one aspect of type one, diabetes is a huge trigger for the rest of this. It's that that feeling that everything's never comfortable or settled, or the you know what you're doing. And when you can get rid of those feelings. I mean, this thing just gets, I would never say diabetes gets easy. But I think you get so good at it at some point, it can feel easy. And and that's where a lot of this goes away, I think, but maybe easier. Yeah,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:06:25
I think yeah, I think the what you were just describing, you know, your thoughts are who you are. I mean, that's, I believe that as well. And that's why our thoughts are so important, because it does impact how we feel and what we do. And so I think, yes, having having the skill set, can reverse kind of that the triangle of okay, I have the I have the tools, I have the skill set, I do feel better. And now I have the thought I do have some hope. And that is a great first step to changing your thinking about how you how you deal with it,

Scott Benner 1:07:00
and to communicate, just keep communicating. Because I mean, that story that I just told, I mean, I feel like I just told Erica, but you know, now I realize a few more people are going to hear it than just but but I'm not bothered by that. Because I've gone over this in my life more than once. And just communicating it and going over it just sort of it turns it more into perspective, I can draw on unless have some story about why I should be sad. You don't even because I am. I am not a sad person. I'm in eternally hopeful person. I'm telling you, if you and I were, I don't know, trapped on a desert island together. You'd be annoyed because every morning I'd wake up and I'd be like, This is it. This is the day we're getting out of here. Like and then I would set upon trying to make that happen. And if it didn't happen, I think I'll try again tomorrow.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:07:50
Try it tomorrow.

Scott Benner 1:07:52
I don't know. Like, I feel lucky that that's how my brain works. I'll be honest, yes.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:07:55
You know, oh, thank you. I'm glad that we that you have that hope and you get your share that hope with us. And thank you again for sharing such a vulnerable memory.

Scott Benner 1:08:07
Oh, you make me feel so gushy inside when you're nice.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:08:13
Oh, well. I'm glad

Scott Benner 1:08:14
I feel like we're at the end of our appointment and you're like okay,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:08:17
I do I do.

Scott Benner 1:08:21
You know what, let's, let's before we say goodbye, let's tell everybody here that you and I are going to put a defining together for for mental health in over the the rest of 2022 and start getting it out to them as soon as possible. Yes, I am excited about it. And why do you have extra time now Erica, tell them

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:08:39
Well, now I want full full time private practice. And so I'm very excited to to share the the future episodes with you all with Scott, and more available to meet with you all. So California

Scott Benner 1:08:53
starting in June, right? You're starting in June, you're gonna go Yes. Yes. Well, I've said it when you're not being recorded a million times. But you're one of my favorite people to talk to and I'm very grateful for the way you and I go back and forth. I think it's I think it's it's hard to find people that I that I vibe with so well. And, and so I love that you're coming on. I love that you're gonna have more time. What's your website?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:09:17
Erica four site.com Alright, cool.

Scott Benner 1:09:21
And you have to be a California resident to to see you right?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:09:24
Yes, yes. In person or telehealth,

Scott Benner 1:09:28
big state. Gotta be a couple of you over that's

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:09:31
all. Well, thank you, Scott. I appreciate it.

Scott Benner 1:09:34
No, thank you so much. I'll talk to you soon.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:09:35
Okay, bye.

Scott Benner 1:09:46
First, let me thank Erica for coming back on the show and let you all know how excited I am to do a defining series with her about mental health and wellness. I'd also like to thank Omni pod makers of the Omni pod dash and the Omni pod promise And remind you to go to Omni pod.com forward slash juicebox. Do you need a meter? Of course you do. Do you have a good one? No might not. But if you had the Contour Next One blood glucose meter you would contour next one.com forward slash juicebox

I'd like to thank you so much for listening. Like you know, there's going to be another episode of The Juicebox Podcast coming up very soon. And remind you to check out the private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes, or find the show on Instagram, Tik Tok, Twitter, wherever Juicebox Podcast, go follow on the Insta gram machine, please. Thank you. I'm obviously a seasoned social media user. And you're not going to be wasting your time at all following me. You might be but just follow me anyway, please. In case I got something important to tell you. This is how I would tell you. You understand how social media works. I don't need to explain this. What else? Thanks so much for the recent reviews and ratings. They were terrific. Whoever left them good on you. Appreciate it. Glad you're loving the show. And that's pretty much it. podcast is cruising along it is doing really well. That is because of you guys. I don't say thank you enough for that. But I absolutely should be saying it every five seconds. The podcast downloads are they're just, there's it's crazy how many there are. And I I can't even take credit for the spread of the word. You guys do all that yourself. Word of mouth is how the show grows. And so I really appreciate it when you take time to tell someone else about it. Alright, again, I'll be back soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast. humbled that you guys listen. Thanks so much.