#658 Body Dysmorphia and Type 1

Grace has type 1 diabetes and body dysmorphia.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends and welcome to episode 658 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Today's show is with grace. She has type one diabetes, and also lives with body dysmorphia. I think this conversation is incredibly enlightening. I really appreciate Grace coming on the show and sharing her story with us. I want you to remember while you're listening, that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan, or becoming bold with insulin. I just got a note from the tea Wendy exchange. They are thrilled with how many of you filled out the survey last month in March, but they still need more of you. They need your answers to those simple questions. T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox. All you need to be is a US resident who has type one or a US resident who is the caregiver of someone with type one, you go to T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox. Join the registry fill out the survey takes less than 10 minutes. When you do it. You're helping people with type one diabetes, and you're supporting the podcast

this show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries G voc hypo penne Find out more at G voc glucagon.com. Forward slash juicebox. today's podcast is also sponsored by Dexcom, makers of the Dexcom G six continuous glucose monitor, you may be eligible for a free 10 day trial of the Dexcom G six head to dexcom.com Ford slash juice box to learn more, or you can just get started.

Grace 2:03
My name is Grace. And I'm a type one diabetic.

Scott Benner 2:08
How old were you when you were diagnosed? Chris?

Grace 2:11
I was 18.

Scott Benner 2:14
And now you are

Grace 2:16

27. Okay,

Scott Benner 2:18
that was nine years ago?

Grace 2:19
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. doesn't feel like it.

Scott Benner 2:23
Yeah. Did you know the trick on that one? What do you mean? Well, you're 18 and then 27. So one and two are only one away? Oh, right. Yes, yes. And then the seven rolly one offs of Boom, just like that. Because if it was like you said, like, you know, 18 and 28. I'd be like, boom. 10 years? Yeah, I don't know. It's just

Grace 2:45
no, that's very true. I was actually doing the math last year on my birthday. And I was like, wow, I've only I've almost been a diabetic for 10 years. It's kind of crazy to think that I'm coming up on my double digits. Yeah. Anniversary.

Scott Benner 2:58
No, I know, we should really talk about that. And because I'm just, you know, I'm just, I'm trying to. Yeah, I'm boasting a little bit about my math.

Grace 3:07
So math skills, world.

Scott Benner 3:09
I just want people to notice how quickly I did that. Okay, so just about a decade diagnosed in your late teens. Can you tell me a little bit a little but what was that a little bit about being diagnosed?

Grace 3:22
Yeah, so I was in college, I was a resident assistant. So I lived on campus all year round, because I stayed for the summers as well. And I think it was my sophomore. It was in between my sophomore and junior year when I was starting to feel like really crappy. And I wasn't sure why I assumed it was because of my workload, and that I wasn't taking care of myself. I was sleeping all the time. And my friends like to put it in perspective, Grey's Anatomy at that point had 10 seasons, and I watched all 10 seasons because of how little I was doing with my time. So I was just constantly exhausted. And so because I was feeling crappy, and the term was over, I set up a doctor's appointment. And at the time, my aunt lived next door to us, and the morning of my appointment. My mom called her and was like, yeah, like Grace's just already asleep on the couch. It's not like her she's usually awake and ready to go. And so my aunt was like, Alright, I'm coming over just let me know. She throws up an ad that moment I literally was like Mom and I ran into the bathroom. My aunt ran next door, tested my blood sugar. It was unreadable on the little machine that she had. So they drove me to the ER right away. And of course with my aunt, being a nurse, I got in right away and I did all these things. And honestly, it was all a fog at that point. But yeah, I was in there for about a week. My I guess without eating my blood sugar was over 750. So, yeah, I was just chilling there. My agency at that point was over 16. So I was cruising this this this way for a while. Was that

Scott Benner 5:16
well, on your way? I have a couple. Yeah. Yeah, I think you might have answered one of them. But why? Why was your aunt so aware of you might throw up because she's a nurse?

Grace 5:26
Because she's a nurse. And I don't know, because I was asleep at the time. I don't know what my mom was saying to her on the phone that made her think along those lines. Yeah. But, you know, because my aunt lived next door, she obviously saw me. When I came home from school, and I had lost a lot of weight I lost over. I have to say, I lost over 35 pounds in three weeks. And I had started going to the gym. I know, it's so silly to even think like, in hindsight, I started going to the gym, two days a week. And when I started losing weight, I was like, wow, like, I'm, I'm doing this thing, I'm doing a great job. And that was not the reason. I think she saw that and all these other things. And something triggered in her brain.

Scott Benner 6:12
You were probably sitting in that gym thinking like, I'm gonna be rich, and I sell this idea to people. It's three situps. I just

Grace 6:22
got an incline for 10 minutes.

Scott Benner 6:24
You watch. You watch a little bit of Grey's back when you know, the cast was right. Yeah. And Arden told me the other day, you're on your way. She says I never finished Grey's Anatomy. I just started it over. And I was like, yeah,

Grace 6:38
yeah, I feel like there's two types of people, those who started from the beginning who just keep rewatching it until a certain point and those who are just jumping in now. It's just two different generations of watching grace.

Scott Benner 6:50
They don't understand any they don't know. I mean, I don't want to just tell you, but when O'Malley died, it really started to go downhill for me.

Grace 6:59
Oh my God, it was like the turning point of destruction in my brain. It was not great.

Scott Benner 7:04
I'm embarrassed to have been able to put that sentence together. Okay. So you get in there you have one, it's only nine years ago. So alright. Are you like, Is your family stunned that you have diabetes? Or they're like, Oh, this is what happened to and Gertrude like, you know, what level of right wareness did you get that type on?

Grace 7:28
Definitely stunned. Definitely stunned. I am the only one in my lineage at this point that we know of that has type one diabetes on both sides of my family. But what was really cool was that my uncle had had married a woman and she had type one. So my parents leaned on her a lot, which was really nice. But she also learned about diabetes so long ago, so our conversations don't exactly match up. And it's kind of funny because now she asks me about Omni pod and those things. So I actually got her switch from her Medtronic Omni pod. And so it's kind of like, again, with a generational thing. She was able to relay her experiences to my parents, which I think they benefited from. And then I get to have these conversations with her and we get to discuss and she'll talk to me about appeals so it's

Scott Benner 8:19
really cool. How to Write appeals. Yeah, yeah. What were you in college for? Like, you were there all year round? isn't like were you just a dork or were you doing something scientific or

Grace 8:29
so. So, I, I have to say I love living on campus because I had my own space. And when I lived on campus as a freshman, that was what my parents had said, they said you can live on campus will pay for you to live on campus for a year. But after that, you have to figure it out or you have to commute and so during my first year, I had my own RA and he was great. And he had said you know you might make a good resident assistant. So then I applied and because of that I just got kept living the lavish life of having an apartment for free.

Scott Benner 9:07
Better than not better than home. Right? You did. You sounds like you visited.

Grace 9:12
Like I did, I did visit but it was for like a weekend or my family. We used to do Friday night pizza night, every week when I was a kid. So I would come home for pizza night, stay on Saturday, go back up, and things like that. But I really did enjoy being on my own.

Scott Benner 9:28
Do you think it broke your mom's heart that you want to leave so badly?

Grace 9:31
I think she was devastated because when they moved me on campus my first year she kept asking, she was like, you want me to help you put this away? You want me to do this? Let me do that. And I had said to her I was like no, no, I got it mom, like I'm good. And my dad was the one who had to kind of like ask her out and I saw the heartbreak on her face.

Scott Benner 9:53
You got the first 18 years I'm gonna take the rest of them I need you to re write like I was

Grace 9:58
the test child. So I understand being sad that I'm no longer home because I'm definitely her right hand. But I very much enjoyed my independence. Gotcha.

Scott Benner 10:06
Any other brothers and sisters? Sounds like Yes.

Grace 10:10
Yes, I have two younger brothers that were each two years apart in age. So where we grew up really close together,

Scott Benner 10:20
you want me to do it very quickly for you? 25 and 23. Yes, very good. Very good. Thank you. I don't want to have to I won't bore you with how I did that. But pretty amazing. Any other auto immune in your family? We're even like you like, let me throw some out at you. hypothyroidism, celiac. A ton of allergies. Bipolar, like anything, anything? Yeah.

Grace 10:51
So we actually are a pretty healthy family. For a while. We thought my cousin had celiac, but she ended up just farting. It wasn't. Yeah, she had some other issues going on. But it wasn't celiac. Because at first I was like, Oh, great. Like, we're on the same team. But you know, we are not

Scott Benner 11:12
alone on an island that within your I am you know, I'm on my own island beyond your you know, beyond your Aunt aunt that has type one also, by marriage type. Yeah. Hi, Mary. Um, yeah. Is there anyone else in your life that has type one diabetes?

Grace 11:29
I have friends who have type one diabetes. Um, there's actually there's three of us. And we're actually all connected on my like fiance's fit friend side. So I actually went to college was one of the girls I'm friends with. And we went to college, we were in the same major, but I didn't know she had type one diabetes at the time. Okay, but now, after kind of getting back together after me, my fiance's friends, and she was a part of that group. Now, there's three of us who all have type one, and we're called, we call each other the diabetes. And yeah, we kind of lean on each other, which is

Scott Benner 12:11
really cool. Excellent. So what do they give you in the hospital? When you leave? You get pens.

Grace 12:17
So yeah, I was on pens for about a year. Actually. Probably shorter than that. Probably like eight months. I was on pens, and then I switched to Omni pod.

Scott Benner 12:26
Oh, that quickly. Alright. And you? Yeah, you use the CGM at all Yeah. Dexcom libre, anything like that.

Grace 12:32
Yep, I have the Dexcom. And I'm now on the dash systems. I have the Dexcom on the dash.

Scott Benner 12:36
Oh, are you thinking of doing Omni pod five when it arrives?

Grace 12:40
Um, it's, it's a thought. I'm not. I'm not one to like, so quickly switch, especially when I enjoy routine and the data is still fairly new to me. I only recently was able to get coverage for the dash because of the new health insurance that I got from my job. So thank you. Thank you. Um, the one good thing about having to switch jobs is that I got better insurance. So, um, yeah, I am still getting used to the dash. Okay. But, you know, we'll see what happens on the horizon.

Scott Benner 13:13
That's hilarious that you said that grace, for reasons you don't know. When they first made the Omni pod five. Do you know what they called it?

Grace 13:22
i I'm pretty sure I heard you speaking about it called the horizon.

Scott Benner 13:25
The horizon. Were you saying that? Were you? You funny? No,

Grace 13:28
I wasn't. I wasn't definitely like a 2020 recollection.

Scott Benner 13:32
Right? Because if you were doing that, that's some next level upon and I appreciate. I'm not that skilled, you know, get in there. Don't Don't knock it. You're doing great. So how long have you been listening to the podcast?

Grace 13:47
I've been listening for probably about two years, I have an hour commute to my job. So I listened about two hours every day on my way to and from work with sporadic breaks for music, but yeah, pretty regularly.

Scott Benner 14:01
It's okay with me. If you listen to music just as long as long as you consume as long as I come back. Two episodes a day. I think whatever you else you do in your free time is fine with me. You know, now, if you're only getting in one a day or a half, then I'd like you to if you just kind of rejigger your life and

Grace 14:20
rearrange, it's like to get that full second episode in there.

Scott Benner 14:23
I'm working pretty hard over here. Grace, and I would like to be paid back. Okay. So listening for about two years. How did you find out about it?

Grace 14:31
So that's funny. How did I find out about it? I think it was on Instagram. I saw a post that I follow a bunch of, I guess you could say celebrity diabetics, who are really just people who have their pages and content focused on diabetes. So someone had posted about it. They had shared something about how they were listening to an episode and it hit them really hard. So in a good way, obviously. And so then I looked it up. And I started from the beginning. And chugging along. I honestly don't even remember what number episode I'm on because I'm just I'm constantly listening to it. It feels like it's a stream of conversations, which is pretty cool.

Scott Benner 15:13
Oh, do you have any, like, confusion about knowing me? Do you have that going on? Do you ever talk to me anything like that in the car? Good for you look at you all rock solid in your head. Good job. So, what made you reach out? Because i Your topic is, I mean, I'm done chit chatting now because your topic is like utterly fascinating to me. And I just wondered, first, what made you want to share about it.

Grace 15:41
So I was listening to a bunch of the after dark episodes, because again, like the topic that we're gonna be discussing, it kind of it does fall on, like the mental health spectrum. So I was listening to a couple after dark episodes, and I was kind of almost like waiting for one. You know, I was like, Oh, I can't wait till they talk about something that I really can get into. And I just kept listening. And no one was saying anything about it. So

Scott Benner 16:10
I was like, are you here? Because I let you down.

Grace 16:13
Yes, I devastated I must represent

Scott Benner 16:17
idiots not going to follow through on the things I need to hear about. I'm gonna have to do it myself. Actually, I'll tell you by now. There's got to be 50 people who have been on this podcast who were on because they wrote to me and said, Do you have episodes on this topic? I go through this. And I said, Well, I don't but if you come on, then I will. And you know, that's how it happens on so I appreciate you doing this very much. I don't know anything about this. So can you explain explain the first time you had the feelings and what they were like and how it's either changed, morphed or stayed the same and etc please.

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Grace 19:40
I live with by dysmorphia. And I it it started even before I had diabetes, so I was a competitive dancer. And I myself I'm just stronger, more muscular my family is you know As they say big boned, but I was never a fat child will say, but in comparison to other dancers I was on the outside will say, so I was always looking at myself as bigger than I actually was. And even to this day, I look at myself as bigger than I actually am. So when I got diabetes, and it was pre diagnosis, and I lost all that weight, I even then did not see the weight fall off, which is half of the issue that I had when it came to being diagnosed. Because in the hospital, they're like, Okay, how, like, have you lost any way recently? And I was like, No, I really haven't. And my mom and my brother were there. And they're like, yes, you have. And even like listening to my brother describe how my face looked. He was like, You looked so sunken in like, your skin was kind of just like hanging. I didn't see that in myself. I didn't see any of that, because I always perceived myself as a heavier girl.

Scott Benner 21:10
And I asked you, sorry, no, don't be sorry. Yeah, I just want to ask a question. Please say no, if it's not right, can I give context to your height and weight? Or would that be bothersome? No, absolutely.

Grace 21:20
I am five, seven, right. And I currently weigh 215.

Scott Benner 21:27
Okay, back when you were diagnosed?

Grace 21:31
I was five, seven, and I weighed 138.

Scott Benner 21:36
Okay. All right. And so that was prior to 138 was prior to the diagnosis or after the weight loss.

Grace 21:43
It was it so when I was weighed in the hospital, I was 127. So the 138 was the last time I had weighed myself prior to being diagnosed. I understand. Okay, because all my classmates, they're like, Oh, you're looking so great. And I was just obviously, being fueled by that positive, positive. I'll put in air quotes. Positive notion that oh, you lost weight. You look so great. So I wanted to see what my number was. And I was like, wow, like 138 That's like, fantastic. I've never seen this number even when I was in high school. But I never saw that number. I was like, wow, like the gym again. The gym. I'm doing so great. So

Scott Benner 22:24
see greatness came from because you saw a number shift. But what can you recall back? Did you look in the mirror and see a different, like a difference?

Grace 22:32
I didn't. And even now I I look back on pictures. Like if I'm scrolling to embarrass a friend for a birthday post or something and I scroll back through all of my photos. I don't see that change. I am the same body even even when I look at pictures where about my smallest pre diagnosis definitely sick. I don't see that.

Scott Benner 22:57
Okay, so as you scroll, is it I mean, let me just I'll jump for a second and then I'm gonna jump back again. Like did you seek some sort of treatment at some point? I did not didn't Okay, I did not. So when you scroll through those pictures, do you go like is there something that happens in your brain? Do you see yourself and think Oh, there I am I look terrible. There I am I look terrible. And no matter if you're you know what weight or health situation you're in, like sunken in face not sunken in about to find out you have diabetes, you know, using insulin? Is it all just the same feeling when you see yourself over and over again?

Grace 23:31
Yeah, I have to say, doesn't matter what picture I'm looking at, if I'm not a child looking at like, Baby young child pictures, every picture that I've taken myself, there's always that feeling of okay, you know, and thankfully, I have an amazing therapist now who I talk with her very often about this, because for a lot of people when it comes to body dysmorphia, because there's a large number of people who actively and know that they suffer from body dysmorphia. But a large population of people on this planet suffer from it in some way shape or form on like a minor scale. And after my therapist was like sharing that information with me, it helps me recognize that people who I perceive as perfect also have their own issues obviously with like how they look and their bodies. And so I have to kind of step away from that, oh, I want to become that or I want to do that right?

Scott Benner 24:31
I imagine so I imagine that that it can go in either direction as well too Right? Like you could see yourself at a I don't I don't know how to put it actually you're gonna have to excuse me because I don't know the terminology around this but let's just say you're you're in an unhealthy weight and you don't see yourself that way. You could just look at them look at them and be like I'm doing well you know and then yeah, you know, but be 3040 pounds overweight, and it actually be impacting yourself but you don't allow yourself to see that. So that's sort of the that's the same idea. It's just not in the, in the direction that we think of it when we like usually what we think is, I mean, don't you? I'm generalizing now right. But when when I hear body dysmorphia, I think of I mean, honestly, I think of a person who's, you know, who looks better than they feel they look, I guess, the simple way that I think of it, do you think that's accurate?

Grace 25:26
No, yeah, that's definitely an accurate and probably the more perceived understanding of body dysmorphia is from the, let's say, let's use like a general like an athlete who sees himself as not in their actual body they see themselves as overweight or not fit or something like that. But it does go the other way where there are individuals who have body dysmorphia, where they are larger or they have more weight, but they see themselves in a younger and not younger in a lighter frame, which again, could be detrimental to their health and I I can't speak from experience because that's not the body dysmorphia that I experienced. But there are people out there that I've seen on these I don't want to say chat rooms but like on these Facebook groups that I follow that talk about this there are groups out there who are like oh, just went to the doctor's office and they said this on a third but I don't see it I guess I'll discuss this in therapy this week. You know, kind of a thing where there are things that impact your health, when you are at a heavier weight things that have to do with like circulatory system and blood pressure and all that which will have an out lasting effect on your health. So yeah, it definitely does does go both ways. I'm gonna

Scott Benner 26:42
do something a little boring for a second, but this is from Hopkins. medicine.org Okay, Body Dysmorphia is a mental health problem. If you have BDD, you may be so upset about the appearance of your body that it gets in the way of your inability to live normally. Many of us have what we think are flaws in our appearance. But if you have BDD, your reaction to this flaw may become overwhelming. You may find that negative thoughts about your body are hard to control. You may even spend hours each day worrying about how you look, your thinking can become so negative and persistent. You may think about suicide at times. And then it says that the cause of body dysmorphia, excuse me the cause of body dysmorphic disorder is thought to be a combustion of environmental, psychological and biological factors. Bullying or teasing may create or foster the feelings of inadequacy, shame or fear of ridicule. So, did you ever feel bullied? Or did the situation where you were at dance allow you to bully yourself if that makes sense?

Grace 27:43
Yeah, definitely a. I am my own bully kind of way. Um, I had to say growing up in grade school, I had amazing friends. My school was like looking back now I know, being an educator myself now that it wasn't this way. But it was literally a fairy tale. I had amazing friends. Everyone was friendly. We always everyone played together. So I never got that external pressure or external commentary on myself, but it was always internal.

Scott Benner 28:14
Okay. I'm gonna give you a little more from this website, just because I think it's interesting. It says that this affects women and men equally. They think that factors contributing could be family history of this, or some similar mental disorder. abnormal levels of a brain chemical doesn't say which one, your personality type or life experiences. Is there any Has anyone else in your family come? Like? I guess the question first is are you very open within your family about this?

Grace 28:45
Um, I wouldn't say that I've said to my family. Oh, yeah, I suffer from body dysmorphia, or I live with body dysmorphia. I've never gone out and said something like that, but my younger cousin and I we are very similar. And she recently had an incident where she bought a really cheap pair of pants from h&m, if anyone's looking for jeans, don't buy them from h&m. But she bought them and she went to bend down to play with the family dog and her pants ripped. And I on her face, I literally saw the emotion that I feel inside when I'm about to bend down to do something, the fear and the realization that my biggest fear literally just happened. Um, so I know that I'm not the only one in the family who, who experiences these types of feelings, but no one really talks about it at all, which is the hard part.

Scott Benner 29:47
Yeah. Is it like an omnipresent thing. You open your eyes in the morning and think I don't like the way I look or is it you have to See yourself? Or do you have to be put in one of those situations where like, Oh God, I'm about to reach over my head, my stomach's gonna stick out of the shirt like this, like, how does it present itself to you?

Grace 30:09
For me, when I wake up in the morning, I don't feel anything, but when inside when I'm starting to get dressed, that's when I start to be overwhelmed by the thoughts. And so I try my best to set up my outfits the night before, because at that point, I'm so exhausted, that I'm literally just putting together clothes that I know fit me and that I know, look good, because I've worn them in the past. Because if I wait until the morning of and I'm in a rush, or if I'm running a little bit behind, then it becomes this entire event. And so a self strategy of mine is to try and do that. Okay, so ahead of time, I'm not, you know, dealing with that issue.

Scott Benner 30:52
Yeah. So if, if, if you, I see what you're saying. So you pick out the clothes when you're tired, and being tired kind of stops you from having the thoughts as much I guess. And then in the morning, because the outfits been chosen. You don't, you don't go through the same thought process as you would when you're standing in front of the closet.

Grace 31:12
Right? Cuz as soon as I stand in front of the closet, and I have all of my options there and I'm awake, and I'm ready to move. Then my brain goes, Oh, I can wear that. Oh, actually, I can't because I hate when this happens, or I don't know, this crap, I don't think

Scott Benner 31:27
grabs my stomach. You can see my arms and this like that kind of stuff goes like Yeah. Okay. And yeah. And but then where does it go from there? Because I mean, I'm not comparing but I've stood in front of clothing. Well, I can't wear that. And but I don't then feel badly about myself afterwards. So does it right, viral? How does that what happens after when it all starts? Where does it go?

Grace 31:50
It is definitely a spiral. So I would say I have created a system for myself for when it comes to work attire, but God forbid we're going out or we're socializing with friends or things like that. And I, I have to then go outside of what I'll call like my work capsule wardrobe. It is a entire event, there have been a handful of times where I've, where I've literally just sat on the bed, my fiance's come in and she's like, we're not going our way. And I'll be like, you can go, but I'm not going. Which is when it becomes the issue where that now it's impacting. It's impacting my life and my daily experiences and things such as that.

Scott Benner 32:33
Okay. Do you have any other thing going on? Are you Would you consider yourself to be depressed or anxious or anything like that?

Grace 32:41
Yes, I'm also I also have depression, which runs in my family. So I am working on that as well. Um, so there are other things, there are other mental health factors, such as that. So

Scott Benner 32:56
this is personal. But isn't it funny, where the line gets drawn in my head on my phone, and I'm gonna ask a person you've been talking for 20 minutes. I'm like, oh, but this isn't too personal. I just had that same experience. You know, it's gonna be in an after dark, I'll let you find it. You'll enjoy it. So you're with somebody. Right? So does the fact that they think you're attractive? Not help?

Grace 33:25
It does not register at all?

Scott Benner 33:27
Okay. at all to then what happens at sexy time? Do you lay there like, Oh, God, like, Please let this end? She can see me or like, I don't have I don't what happens, I guess.

Grace 33:39
Yeah. So. So interestingly enough, so now my fiancee is very loving. She is very caring of me. She she goes out of her way to tell me what she sees in me of me what she thinks of me and like my body and everything. But anytime we're going to get intimate. All lights have to be off. I'm already in bed. I'm underneath the covers, like, I don't want you to look at me. Which has been a topic of conversation for us, because she obviously doesn't see what my what my vision of myself is. And no matter how many times I try to describe it. It's something that is hard to compute. For another person who's

Scott Benner 34:30
looking at me, yeah, your dog can't even understand it.

Grace 34:33
I know. She's so bad. I'm sure the mailman is literally standing outside. She's so bad.

Scott Benner 34:40
I think the one of the things that it brings in and that makes it so difficult is if the other person is looking at you and being like I very attracted to you. So and you're Yeah, you're keeping that from me. I guess it could feel like on some level and then they could start feeling impacted by it. Like there's something up with them and that's why you won't share yourself Yeah,

Grace 35:00
yes. And we have to have that conversation as well, because I don't initiate any form of intimacy like that. Because again, how I feel about myself. So we've had to have a conversation where I've had to share with her like, Yes, I find you attractive. I love you, I want to do this, but I am not comfortable with myself to do this. Okay, so then it does it impacts her own mental understanding of Okay, now, am I on attractive? Does she not love me in my body, which is not the case. It's all it's all my issue. But again, bleeding into that type of scenario, you know,

Scott Benner 35:38
does it impact like, even functionally, are there positions you won't get into or things you won't do? Just because of how you feel like your body is going to look in that situation?

Grace 35:49
Yeah, I, I have to say, it's not. I haven't experienced anything like that. Like, I'll definitely hesitate. But then she'd be like, come on, like, let's just try it. So it's definitely there is still hesitation and there is still concern and like, self awareness of okay, how am I gonna look in this position? Yeah. But,

Scott Benner 36:17
sorry, I have another question. This one's gonna. This one's gonna sound like less than tactful, probably. But I genuinely want to know, this might be a male perspective thing. I have no idea we're gonna find out in a second. Is there a part in the process where you just tip over the edge and you're having such a good time? It goes away? Like can you ever like up like, not that you can let go of it? But you know what? I mean, do you ever get like, right? To a point where you're just like, I would do this in front of my mom in the mall? I don't care this very good.

Grace 36:47
Um, I have to say, if if I'm sober. No. If there's alcohol involved, or some other type of, you know, elite, something that will alleviate the focus from me, then yes, I'm able to kind of have that. I want I don't want to say out of body experience, but it definitely feels like that because I'm not thinking about myself.

Scott Benner 37:09
Okay, Chris, did we find her? Do we find your line? Did you just stop yourself from saying if I'm Hi? Hi, I would never I was like, Oh, this girl was very open right till she got the weight and she's like, I'm not saying that.

Grace 37:26
It's not It's not often I'm more of a gummies girl like I won't like smoke it so much. But I am I am a gummy. I like eating gummies and treats and such so if it's in there, I'm not gonna say

Scott Benner 37:40
no, I can I say girlfriend or fiance doesn't matter to you know doesn't matter. So if she sees you grab a gummy Do you think she like run and change the sheets and everything?

Grace 37:51
This is a high probability starts

Scott Benner 37:53
throwing light bulbs out of the out of the ceiling.

Grace 37:55
Yeah. turn all the lights off. Make sure the sheets are ready but a little corner so Grayson, just slide right in. Yeah,

Scott Benner 38:01
picture phone puts it on private, she starts texting friends. It's happening. Leave me alone.

Grace 38:09
No one contact me until I reach out, please.

Scott Benner 38:12
Oh my god, can I ask you a question that's completely disconnected of all this? Yes. How great is it to be in a same sex relationship because I assumed your periods have linked up by now. So the same time that nobody wants to have sex, nobody else wants to have sex, he must be amazing.

Grace 38:27
Hey, it's, it's quite great. We are we're pretty synced off by a few days. So when I start, she knows it's coming. And she's the baby out of the two of us where she will, she will milk it until the cow is dry. She will complain and all this jazz. So as soon as I get mine, I'm like, Hey, prepare yourself, because we call it we call it Nellie. So we can talk about it. And public will be like, oh, is Nelly coming this week or is now like coming next week? I'll be like, now he's coming for you. I'm just

Scott Benner 38:59
thinking like, how great must it be to like, not feel sick to your stomach or something or, you know, just blot and know, just intrinsically, your partner's not going to call it you right now because she's in the same exact situation. Whereas in my scenario, I'm like, wow, the boobs are way rounder now than they usually are. And then she's like, I don't feel good. I'm like I'm just saying. It seems like a match made in heaven is what I'm getting at. Yeah, that's excellent. We have our we have our

Grace 39:29
ritual of murder mysteries are crashing into some crazy series. And then we go back to our normal routine until next month.

Scott Benner 39:39
Murders in the building on Hulu. So I

Grace 39:42
haven't watched it yet. It's on my watch list. And she hasn't started yet because I told her I wanted to watch it. So it's fun.

Scott Benner 39:51
I enjoyed it. I really enjoy Steve Martin and me too. I love him was very good. And Selena Gomez didn't bother me so I thought it was her Nice. She was good. I there was part of me that was like, I don't want to watch this Wizards of Waverly girl. She was She did a good job. So yeah,

Grace 40:09
I haven't seen Selena Gomez in any shows like, since with Wizards of Waverly Place, I haven't seen any of her other movies. So I have no real perception of her acting skills. So this is a good review.

Scott Benner 40:21
Thank you. You'll be good. You'll you'll enjoy it. I am and I was also just a little mesmerized and proud of myself when I pulled the Wizards of Waverly Place reference out. As I was saying it I was a little like, is this a Jake and Josh thing, and I'm getting this wrong? So hey, anyway, it's

Grace 40:37
channel who are the other actors? What is it called?

Scott Benner 40:40
So moving the kind of like the, the sexual problems into the real world? Do you have things you avoid doing in your day that people don't know about? But you're very aware about? Like, How are you coping? In real life? So?

Grace 40:56
So it's actually interesting you say that, so?

Scott Benner 41:00
I'm amazing at this grace, what do you I mean,

Grace 41:03
you are a professional what was I think?

Scott Benner 41:07
Here's what I knew about body dysmorphia five seconds ago, there's a person tangentially in my life, who I think is having trouble with this. And I don't know what to do for them. And, and other than that, besides me, you know, fooling myself into thinking I don't need loot need to lose weight at a couple points in my lifetime. I don't have any real like connection with the idea. Yeah. So I'm doing an amazing job understanding all this plus, I got you to talk about Lady sex, which I think people are gonna love. You know, and I'm telling Allison, I'm doing really great, but but let's just stop in the middle. So I can congratulate myself.

Grace 41:51
We always need that moment to pat ourselves on the

Scott Benner 41:53
back. Well, joking aside, like, you know, again, for 30 seconds, I'll turn this around. But if you ever want to, like have pressure, put yourself into a scenario where you're having a conversation with people, it's going to be recorded, and then heard by a lot of people. And you don't know what the, you're talking about this. So you know, I'm not without risk here to let's just say, I could come off, like at some point, and I'm always gonna share the episodes with you. So if I sound like an idiot, or sounds like I say something stupid. I felt like I'm cutting it out. You just Yes. And then going, Oh, my God, this. Why do I listen to this podcast? I didn't know what to ask this girl. Right. Anyway, I'm giving myself a lot of credit. I think I'm doing good. You're doing great. By the way. Is there any apprehension about talking about it?

Grace 42:44
Um, not so much. Because I'm kind of like, taking this meeting as sort of like a therapy session. That's kind of how I walked into it so that I didn't have any reservations. You know, I hear that I went into it. Like, pretending I was talking to somebody that I've never met. That I've only heard to my, my car stereo,

Scott Benner 43:06
then just tell them? Yeah, yeah, half an hour. I got you naked.

Grace 43:10
So yeah, that's quite impressive.

Scott Benner 43:13
You're way too easy grace. Alright, so Alright, so in your regular life, those things that we kind of like were able to see. Because, I mean, honestly, because making it into a sexual situation simplifies it, but does anything about that carry into your regular life?

Grace 43:30
I think that. So I'm an educator. So I work with sixth graders. And I think that in my every day, if I see other staff wearing something that I really like, I will automatically be like, Oh, but you could never wear that. Because when so with my job, we have like a very strict dress code. And sometimes it's hard to find things that I actually am like, Okay, I could wear this to work and not think about the slew of issues that I would foresee my body having with this specific garment. And as soon as I see someone else in something that I would love to wear, but I'm not confident or I don't feel like I would even look good or even fit in it. Or if it would just accentuate something that I'm trying to hide automatically. It's like everything goes down the toilet, and I'm spiraling with it. And I have to kind of reset my brain. So I'm going to go into the classroom. I'm like, Okay, we're not talking about this anymore. So there's a lot of compartmentalizing in my life when it comes to that. But do

Scott Benner 44:41
I'm thinking back on being younger and being at school, and I can't remember the woman's name, but I remember torturing as a group, you know, it wasn't just me. It was a pitchforks and pitchforks kind of thing. But we taught her to substitute teacher to the point where she cried. Oh, I'm looking back. I'm starting to feel About About up, I'm trying to be honest grace. Does that, like has that like, what would happen if a kid called you short, fat? ugly, stupid? Like, what if they leaned into you on something like that? Do you think you'd crumble in front of them? Or do you think you could hold it together like,

Grace 45:18
so I have a pretty tough exterior when it comes to my students. So a little background, I work in a deaf school. So I work with a smaller group of students than a typical public classroom. So I have 18, in comparison to other schools where they're like, high 20s, low 30s. So I have a pretty close relationship with a majority of my students, I have yet to come across a single one who would say something maliciously, like that. If it were to be the case, then I feel like I would kind of put on my like, tough face and have that conversation with them. But then maybe on my drive home, I would be obsessed with that, with that thought in that comment, and possibly take something out of that capsule wardrobe that I have for work.

Scott Benner 46:18
Gotcha. Talk about the obsessed part, like, how long would it last? What would it entail? Do you ever have thoughts of suicide, like the website talked about?

Grace 46:28
So I've never had thoughts of suicide myself. Um, so I have to say I'm grateful for that. But with the obsessiveness, it can last a very long time. Like an example, I had a shirt that I used to wear in college that I don't know, it wasn't like a professional shirt, it was something that I would wear if I wanted to look nice when I was going out. But I would say it was like my comfort shirt, nothing could go wrong with that shirt. And I remember someone had made a comment about how I always wear that shirt is the only shirt they ever seen you wearing and how it starting to look worn out. And it doesn't look as good as it used to. And automatically that shirt went in the garbage. And I thought about that comment every time I went out since it was just like something like, I don't even have the shirt anymore. And I'm still thinking about oh, like, I can't keep wearing this item because it's going to be Oh, you against me?

Scott Benner 47:30
No. So you start thinking like even the stuff you like now I can't overwhelm because it'll get worn out and then I'll have to throw it away. So now you're not and I'm gonna lose that option. See? Oh, see you're not wearing it to save it to keep the option but it doesn't help you functionally. Right? Hmm. Oh, you poor thing. Okay. Oh, yeah. That's terrible. Do you speak? I don't know if I'm doing this right. ASL. Do I say do I ask if you speak ASL? Or do I?

Grace 47:58
So I, I use ASL. I am fluent in ASL. And I teach in sign language and communicative my students through sign and my friends through sign. So it is a it actually, funnily enough, it has an impact on my sugars. If I am working, my sugars are stable. But if I'm like distance learning, like I am this week, my sugars are much higher, because I'm not putting as much effort into my day, if that makes sense. I would

Scott Benner 48:25
like to see you up your Basal when you're when you're working without from home. Yeah, yep. Because you're saying you're up and moving and signing. So you're literally active. And so yeah, you need less insulin because of that. Yeah, I wish I would have known about this when we were making the variable season series, I definitely would have felt was a variable. That's just really interesting. Yeah, yeah, do the kids know you have type one.

Grace 48:50
So some of them do. So interestingly enough, the way that my class is set up is that my co teacher teaches social plays, and I teach science. So fifth grade, we talk about the body and the systems of the body. So when we talk about the immune system, and things like that, the textbook mentions diabetes and that's kind of like when we use that half hour to learn about diabetes the CO teacher and I kind of work that out because I am a living example of an autoimmune disease. So having that conversation with them most of them understand my past years they really had a better grasp on it then this year's but again, with distance learning everyone's a little behind and takes more time. So I Yeah, but it's been pretty cool.

Scott Benner 49:37
I feel so bad for those kids. Because if they can't, they can't hide on distance learning like the kids who can hear can because if you have to sign then you have to be visible in the camera. The other kids just hot, right? Yeah, exactly. You just see that. Yeah, they just showed the other day. Arden said to me, I slept through a class. I was like, yeah, she Yeah, she's like Bed learning. And I was like, yes. We call it beds. And it's back again, after New Years. I just got the email as you and I were sitting down there going back again. So,

Grace 50:14
yeah, we're going back on the 18th. And my students definitely do better when they're in person, as many students do. But when they're home, obviously, there's other distractions. So I'm very excited to be back. And my kids miss it, because a lot of them this, like school is their only place where they have seamless communication. So they're very excited to come back. Yeah, do

Scott Benner 50:35
some of them live in homes where they can't communicate with people in their homes?

Grace 50:39
Yeah, I actually have a lot of students who are from Spanish speaking families. So not only is there a written language barrier, but there's also the fact that some families don't sign with their or they don't have in depth understanding of ASL. So they're not able to fully communicate with them. So

Scott Benner 50:58
you just blew my mind is ASL one standard language. So if I come from a Spanish speaking household, or I come from a French speaking household, we both do the same ASL.

Grace 51:08
So no, so every country has their own sign their own sign language, so sorry, I'm an idiot. Yeah, no, no, you're totally fine. It's actually a huge misnomer that, you know, the thought that sign language is universal. It actually isn't, which is pretty, pretty crazy. Um, so if I were to go to another country, I may not be able to communicate with the deaf community there because we're using two different types of sign language. Yeah.

Scott Benner 51:40
All right. So Grace, like I'm looking at a photo of you right now. Yeah, zooming in, they get popped up. I have a silly photo, you have a nice photo, it's fine. And if I said to you right now, just out of left field, if I said, Grace, I see your picture. You're very pretty. What's your first reaction to that statement? Oh, okay. Thank you. You guys like you can, but do you believe it? Are you just being polite? I'm being polite. Okay. So what are the words that pop into your head when I say that? No. Just like that. Okay. Yeah. So

Grace 52:15
you're like, he's being nice. He's trying to be nice. I say, How did

Scott Benner 52:19
you end up with a partner then? Like, how did you believe somebody enough like to date them?

Grace 52:26
So we met in a very interesting class in college called death in perspective, so not death with enough death like th at the end. And that class, it really forced us to be vulnerable and share really intimate experiences of ours. And because we were in that class, it was kind of as if there were no more secrets. We we spent a lot of time together. And after we both graduated, we were both single, and we kind of just met up as if no time had passed. So the comfortability was there that there's nothing I have nothing to hide from her. Okay. There's no There's no more secrets. She knows. Basically, everything. surface level.

Scott Benner 53:20
So yeah, you've um, again, I'm doing my buddy. Let's keep in mind, I'm 50 and straight, but you've always you've always been gay.

Grace 53:29
So I had a boyfriend in high school. Um, but that was it.

Scott Benner 53:36
You are not how they would refer as you are not gold star that is that

Grace 53:39
I am not gold star. Look at you knowing your term pretty

Scott Benner 53:43
impressed. I know. Better than when I knew how long you had diabetes after doing

Grace 53:52
lovely. Yeah, no, I am not gold star.

Scott Benner 53:55
I'll let people look that up on their own. I'm not explaining everything to you people. Yeah. Let's just say Scott knows things. That's all. Yeah, I'm old. But I'm keeping

Unknown Speaker 54:04
up. You're keeping up you got it.

Scott Benner 54:08
Meanwhile, My knee hurts for three weeks. I don't know why. I didn't do anything to it. I just woke up one day. Like what is wrong with me?

Grace 54:17
Right, my ankles the same way. I have no idea what happened to it but is tweaking like no other Kelly Kelly's

Scott Benner 54:22
like, are you gonna get a knee replacement? She's like, Oh, God, am I gonna have to take care of you? And I was like, Oh my God, I hope not. I just don't want to I feel she could leave me in a room to die is my concern. Like if I couldn't get around, like what would stop her from just not bringing food and water? Right? She'd be like, Oh, I can finally get this insurance money and get started again with a guy I really like.

Grace 54:43
Right, right. I can build a whole new life for myself. Yeah, I

Scott Benner 54:47
mean, it's not too late to get away from this idiot. Okay. I think this is not me wrapping up with you. It's me. It's me making sure like, is there something I'm not asking you I should be.

Grace 55:02
So not so much asking. But so my body dysmorphia has had a huge play and how I handled my blood sugars in the past. So I'm not trying to like write the script for anyone here. But if, like, obviously, if your sugars are higher, you're not as controlled, your body will then start using its own self to kind of fuel you know what I mean? So in the beginning, when I was like, oh, like, I lost all this weight, everyone on the outside is like, wow, like, you look great, I want to maintain this, I was not keeping my sugars in check, because it meant that my body weight number was going to be lower.

Scott Benner 55:45
So you were exercising the diet bulimia on purpose, kind of thing.

Grace 55:50
To an extent, I wouldn't say diet bulimia, because I wasn't doing excess exercising, but I was not. Um, you were keeping your butt was not going to cover the sugars coming in. Okay,

Scott Benner 56:05
so you kept your blood sugar high on purpose, because you knew would keep your body weight down? Correct? Correct. But you you described your weight now versus your weight then, like nine years ago, like, like, pretty differently. So what are you doing or not doing now? Like that? Like, I don't know, how are you living now that you weren't living then?

Grace 56:25
Yeah, um, I, I have a endocrinologist who is extremely, extremely supportive. But she also yells at me in a very supportive way to get my sugars in check. And like to kind of remind me that, you know, having high blood sugars is not good for a long, sustained health, healthy life. And with the things that I'm actively working on with my relationship with my job with my schooling, I want to be around long enough and healthy enough to be able to continue doing them so that all of this isn't to waste. So she yells at me when she's like, you know, right around the holidays, I'm always higher, because I am lazy, or I don't calculate a right amount, or I eat more than I'm supposed to, or whatnot. And she'll yell at me be like, was this you on purpose? Or was this an accident? Okay. And so she will, she will check me when she sees high numbers for long periods of time. And she'll kind of guilt trip isn't the right word, but it definitely makes me think about, alright, like, obviously, that wasn't a good, a good thing, especially if it was on purpose is not on purpose nearly as often anymore. But it definitely wasn't the beginning, where she was like, this is on purpose, I can see that there's a trend here you're thinking about December 3, so

Scott Benner 57:46
yeah, so if your weight hits a number, then you stop using as much insulin to try to drop the weight.

Grace 57:52
Right, she and she noticed that trend, I would say probably within the first year of us being together, and she's like, Alright, we're gonna nip this in the bud. So this doesn't go forward. So yeah, I'm very fortunate that I have someone who is medically aware and also, in tune with me enough to be able to make the right comments. That'll just make me see things a little bit differently. So I'm on the right track again.

Scott Benner 58:16
Okay, I'm gonna ask you a couple probing questions. If I make you uncomfortable, you'll tell me. So you, I hate to use them. But you. I mean, you just described your weight as probably being 80 pounds heavier than when you were diagnosed earlier. Yeah, about right. Okay. So how long after diagnosis? Were you like actively keeping your weight down by not giving yourself insulin? And then at what point? Did you start using more? And is your like, what do you attribute your weight increase to?

Grace 58:50
Yeah, so I would say, the first year after diagnosis, I was very good about keeping my numbers in check doing what I was supposed to. Because I was living with my parents at the time. And they were, you know, they were asking their questions. So I, again, wanting to be the perfect golden Angel, child firstborn that I am. I was like, no, no, everything's great. Like, everything's perfect. And then I noticed the weight gain. So it was my second year, I would say, the second year and a half, that I was like, Ooh, like I can, I can play with this. And then I'd lie to my parents essentially, and fudge my numbers, but like, no, they're great. When in fact, they were much higher, because then the weight loss was happening again, and I was going down that same trail that I was prior, um, and then switched doctors. She noticed the trend about a year in so I would say it took about three years for a professional to recognize the issue and look at all the facts and be like, okay, like, we're gonna work on this mentally as well as physically. Um, So now, the weight gain is definitely the waking that I have now is more attributed to the fact that I'm not going to the gym anymore. I, I am a full time teacher and a full time student. So I'm in classes all night. And I only have time on weekends to really do things to see family and friends. So I'm at this point, the gym is not a priority for me. So a lot of the weight gain I think definitely comes from the fact that I don't have a routine and I'm, you know, with COVID, we were so sedentary. So we had all that going for us, in a way. So yeah, that's kind of where I'm at right now. And it's not where I want to be. But I'm definitely I have the support team enough to go about it the right way. So, are you looking forward to that?

Scott Benner 1:00:54
Are you um, I have a question that I'm I'm skipping, which I'll get back to in a second. I'm not sure. How are you comfortable telling me what your agency is currently?

Grace 1:01:05
Yeah, so my agency right now is a 6.4.

Scott Benner 1:01:09
You have a ton of lows, or No?

Grace 1:01:12
Um, I It's kind of weird. It. It really depends on the day like what's happening, but I have experienced more lows. Recently, but I think it's just because I'm like over calculating or overcompensating and thinking I'm gonna eat more when I'm not,

Scott Benner 1:01:29
but it's not like your last day once he was 7.9? This one? 6.4? Correct. Okay, correct. From stability, okay. All right. I'm not sure if this is okay. We you know what, it's over now. Like, I mean, just you're here, you've, you've opened yourself up, this is your fault. So yeah. Are you over eating? Are you eating? Are you eating things that are like incredibly unhealthy.

Grace 1:02:00
So not on a regular basis. But I do have an issue with also like sneaking food. So if there are treats in the house, I will sneak treats and then eat them and try to get rid of the evidence. And then I'll do it again, because I got away with it. So there is a amount of over eating or not eating the right things, which is hilarious, because on the outside, it's like, oh, I'm meal prep. And I have this on the third. And I have my containers and everything's measured and weighed out because my my fiance is big into the gym, and she's big into working out and eating right. So we have this meal plan, that's great. But because we're not the only ones who live in this house, there are also treats here that when I was living on my own, I didn't have that issue because I just never bought them. But I do sneak sneak food

Scott Benner 1:02:56
for these motherfuckers that put treats around the house and what can we

Grace 1:03:00
say? No, trying to get rid of them. But before

Scott Benner 1:03:06
I see what you're getting at, have you so I don't know if this is actually like I was just gonna say I don't know if this is like gonna be triggering for me to ask you. But I think we're beyond that. So have you considered an intermittent fasting schedule.

Grace 1:03:20
So I, I have tried intermittent fasting and I'm definitely better when I'm on my routine, meaning waking up, going to work going to work, not just like sitting at my desk, going to work coming back going to class, like I'm much better with that. Because then my eating times results around my availability to eat like my intermittent fasting is after our first period when the kids come back, and then I finish as soon as they get home from work around like 430 I'm able to eat by five before I go into class. So I have that intermittent window, but when I'm home home distance learning, teaching and like all that jazz, I It's like a free for all. Yeah, so there's no I can go anytime that the kids are independent working or a bathroom break or a water break. I get a break. So I go downstairs and I see what's what's happening in there. What's in the cabinets. And yeah,

Scott Benner 1:04:12
gotcha. Okay. I mean, I'm not trying to say that there's some simple fix. I'm just trying to put context to it. Like, you know, my Oh, yeah. My real feeling here is that I don't I mean, I don't know how people deal with stuff like this. You know, the guy the I don't know what you do you I mean, you're doing talk therapy right now. Is that right? Yeah, yeah. Let's psychologist. Yes. Okay. May I suggest bit just based on the people I've spoken to in the past? Move up to a psychiatrist. Might be

Grace 1:04:44
Well, I have I have that for depression. I have a psychiatrist who does his depression meds but we haven't done anything for anything else yet.

Scott Benner 1:04:52
So I say do the depression medication put weight on or make it harder to lose weight?

Grace 1:04:58
Um, I don't think so. Um, I haven't like done a lot of deep research about that specifically because again, like, on the side of the bottle, it has all those, you know, side effects or whatever. But I don't I didn't see a correlation between my weight increase to when I started taking those meds, okay?

Scott Benner 1:05:19
Do you want to exercise? Or is it not something that pops into your head?

Grace 1:05:27
I am lazy in nature. So I am not extremely excited when it comes to going to the gym. I know it's good for me. And I've seen better sugar levels and not as many highs and lows when I'm doing it. So there's that motivation behind it. But if I was a full, typical healthy person, I wouldn't be the the person to just run into the gym and enjoy it. I think the only form of enjoyment was when I was dancing when I was younger, because that's you're working out without thinking about it cuz you're just having a good time. Do you need to do something like that?

Scott Benner 1:06:01
Are you more comfortable? Like this is kind of these are gonna sound like they don't go together. But because you don't see yourself? Well, no matter what. Is this just where you're more comfortable? Is it like, is there any chances it's a decision? Are you trying to match your body to how you feel like I don't know. Like, I don't know what I'm asking you. I'm literally rambling.

Grace 1:06:23
Yeah, but that's actually no, I see the path that you're on. I feel like, that's actually a really good theory to test because if I feel like crap, then I don't do as much because I am crap, basically. And then if I were to work out, but still feel like crap, it's like, well, what's the point? Cuz I feel like crap.

Scott Benner 1:06:43
Yeah, you're putting in all this work, but there's no reward because you're gonna feel like this, whether you weigh 100 pounds or 200 pounds.

Unknown Speaker 1:06:50
Right? Right.

Scott Benner 1:06:52
I could be incredibly, very grace. Actually, yeah, you should send me a copay for this. I think I'm gonna take,

Grace 1:06:58
you know, I should I should.

Scott Benner 1:07:03
I just don't know like that. And there's one other like, indelicate question that I don't know how to ask. And I'm not sure if I'm gonna sound like I'm, I'm not sure how I'm gonna sound when I ask it. And it's What's stopping me? Because I don't have any ill intention with it. It's just, it's an observation. Yeah, I'm really trying. I mean, if I don't know if I'm going to let me drink water. Okay. I have friends who are lesbians. And sometimes I feel like one person in the partnership puts on weight to appear more masculine. Mm hmm. Do I do it? I don't know what I just did. Like, I know

Grace 1:07:49
what you're saying. Okay. Um, so actually, between the two of us, my fiance's the more masculine one and on the more feminine one. So, like, examples as a wedding, she wears a suit, and I wear a dress. So it's not so much that I'm putting on the weight to appear more masculine, because that's not the quote unquote, look, that or the, the, for lack of better term role that I portray.

Scott Benner 1:08:18
Okay. Um, hold on, I gotta clear my throat, I apologize. Yeah. I don't think this is the end, but it's close.

Grace 1:08:29
It's like the coffee's a signal.

Scott Benner 1:08:33
So the reason I asked is just because while I'm doing this, I kind of have myself in a bunch of different head spaces. And one of them is I'm trying to think about what the people listening are thinking. And it's just yeah, I'm not gonna say it's obvious, but I'm not the first person who's noticed that I guess is what I'm saying. Yeah. And so I just wanted to get the question out, because I didn't think that was what was going on. But then if I don't ask the question, then the conversation feels incomplete. The people who are listening

Grace 1:08:57
Yeah, yeah, no, my my fiance is definitely more masculine. And she, like, that's how she sees herself, whereas I don't see myself that way. Yeah, I'm just heavier.

Scott Benner 1:09:10
Gotcha. Listen. I mean, I don't even know what to say. When I feel like I wish you good luck. Like I like I feel like, I feel like I'm pushing you in a rowboat out to the ocean. I'm like, you'll probably be okay. Here. Take a banana. But do Yeah. How long have you been working on it? Bye. Professional. How long have you been at this?

Grace 1:09:35
Three years. Okay. Yeah, I think it's only been three.

Scott Benner 1:09:38
Do you see this as an eating disorder coupled with body dysmorphia? Or how do you think

Grace 1:09:43
um, there's definitely, there's definitely, like eating disorder issues that underlie like, when I was younger, I was, uh, I, I would like, hide what I was eating. My mom was very strict when it came to what I do. And because when she was growing up, the way you look equates to how healthy or so she was always lean very. She was a soccer player, all that jazz. So those things that she learned growing up from my grandmother, she then instilled in me. So God forbid I wanted a pop tart, I'd have to sneak a pop tart upstairs, eat it, get rid of the evidence, aka, throw it under my brother's bed so that the boys who could have all of this, were the ones who were implicated in the stolen Pop Tart.

Scott Benner 1:10:35
So yeah, like be skinny. So a boy buys you a house. Like that kind of thing.

Grace 1:10:39
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Gotcha. Oh, yeah.

Scott Benner 1:10:47
Yay. My next afterdark that's coming out. So you and I are talking in real time, but it's a little easier with after darks because they happen. I don't sit on after dark. So as long after I record them, my guess is, yeah, the next one that's going to come out is with an old gentleman who has an eating disorder. And he talks about how he dealt with it. And it's fairly interesting. Like, I think you'll like it.

Grace 1:11:16
Yeah, I'm excited. I appreciate after dark that are like that, because there are a lot of overlapping of feeling and experiences in some ways. So yeah, I look forward to that.

Scott Benner 1:11:30
I I have the one that's coming after that is with a sex worker, a female sex. And she came to the podcast through another afterdark episode. So that's cool. Yeah, I'm excited. Really good feeling about them actually. Just what they do in general, not those specific episodes. But what the series does. Yeah, you know, me, like, it's so easy to say like, well, I'll do an episode about Pre-Bolus. And because people need to know about that, and everyone will want to know, but yeah, you know, you don't expect when you're doing things like this, that you're going to get a note from someone who's like, Hey, I'm a sex worker who found your podcast, because someone in another episode admitted to doing cocaine read doing this? Yeah. Like, why? So I want to come on the part. He was just like, wow, really? Like, these are email? Yeah. I did not expect to get my life. But um, that I think it's really cool. Yeah, I think it's building a really great little compendium of the other stuff that nobody wants to talk about who Avi I mean, listen, I make a crazy generalization here. But there's nothing about you, physically, that I would look at, and then jump to any of these conclusions about you. And I know, right, I know that. That's not that's the case for everybody. I don't think that's how people think about it. Like, I think that, you know, we don't see, we don't see, struggle until we see broken,

Grace 1:12:57
I guess, right, usually, yeah. And you know, that's so true. Because, you if you were to meet me on the street, I would seem as if I got my shit together. I am, like, focused, I've got all these things going for me. Well, on the inside, I am digging myself into this deep tunnel, about a glance that you may have never even intended and been like, damn, like they were looking at me for this than a third. You know, on the outside, you don't see that.

Scott Benner 1:13:26
It's so funny. You say this. So I was leaving a convenience store last night. I'm just gonna be very honest and use my honest words, right. And I saw I saw a really pretty big girl. Yeah, that's all okay. Like, I don't know, another way to put it. Okay. She was super curvy. And, you know, if you held her up to the scale at the doctor's office, I bet she needed to lose 100 pounds, you know? Yeah, if that's how we're gonna measure her, and I thought she was really pretty. And I found her attractive. And I as I crossed buyer, like, I don't listen, Grace. You don't have a penis? You don't know about this, but I physically can't not look at her. Like I just like greatly. Yeah, brains. Like maybe we should make that one pregnant. Like, it's just a very weird thing. Yeah, hard to like, quantify what it is to be a boy. But I looked at her. And I tried to smile in a friendly way because then we made eye contact. And it wasn't creepy. It was just glancing like, we were just passing each other. I never even got the ocular like I was hoping to I know that's I'm just being very honest. Right. So because she because we made eye contact, like friendly passing eye contact, and I smiled. And I thought I saw that interface like that. Yeah, that thing you talked about earlier. Like I thought I saw her face on fat Don't look at me. Yeah, you know, and I and there was like this small part of me that wanted to look at it and go I think you're really pretty and then just leave but I didn't do that because that that would be wrong. So I just left. So then I started thinking as I was walking out the she just keep her eyes down all the time. Yeah, like that kind of thing. Like, does she not want to see people because of stuff like that?

Grace 1:15:14
Yeah. And then you're funny you say that? Yeah, it's funny you say that because my accent in college, I always walk with my head down. And she used to have such a feeling about it. She's like, you always look down. Aren't you looking at anybody? That's like, oh, because I don't want people to look at me. I don't want them to look at me because I'm not happy. And I don't, I don't want to see their judgments, because it's just gonna bury me even further than I've already buried myself. Yeah. And it was a it was a constant thing. She she would always, I don't want to say nitpick. But she always be like, pick your head up, like you're next to her. And she tried to be nice about it. But I knew that the argument that we were about to have about it, it was just like a cyclical thing, because I always walk with my head down.

Scott Benner 1:16:02
Yeah, you know what, I think if I can be super honest, the saddest thing I think about your situation, is that not once have I heard about you wondering about how to get out of this? Like, does it feel like it's never gonna stop?

Grace 1:16:16
Yeah, it's stuff. I feel like it's almost like I hate to say it, but like a lifetime commitment. Like, I'm in this for the long haul. And I can talk till I'm blue in the face, I can pay for the best. Psychologists go on whatever medication that doctors feel is best. But I feel like this is a a ingrained feeling that I can't ever separate myself from.

Scott Benner 1:16:45
So if that's the truth, and I'm not saying it isn't or that I know it is. But if it is, is there a world where you can just start looking at your physical body as your health and say to yourself, Okay, I'm never going to feel good about how I look. But I can at least be healthier? Because you did talk about wanting to stay alive and do things like that. Yeah, earlier.

Grace 1:17:07
Yeah. And it's definitely it was, it would be almost like a homework assignment for myself, like anytime that I see myself having to actively say, Okay, this is like you're giving this many hours today? How many? How many different ways can we be healthier for ourselves? Instead of looking at it being like, oh, like, I have to walk through the world looking like this today? You know, so having to give myself that literally like homework, and have it be a everyday assignment every day of every minute assignment. So that, you know, it's so easy to start in the morning and be like, okay, like, I'm in this great, bright, happy mindset. I'm going to be healthy today. I'm going to make healthy choices today. And then something happens and it changes it all. So that's why it would have to be a constant homework assignment. You know what I mean?

Scott Benner 1:18:03
Yeah, so when something happens, then you fall into kind of those, like sneaking food like that kind of like, yeah, that situation. So if I may, it does feel like you have multiple things happening. Like, I don't think it doesn't seem like all of this stems from one thing like, I don't think this is just Yeah, being depressed. I don't think this is just body dysmorphia. I think it sounds like there's a trifecta here. To me, it feels like there's the body dysmorphia. It feels like the depression, but it also feels like an eating disorder to me a little bit.

Grace 1:18:37
Yeah, definitely been talked about that too, and about how it's impacted, um, in different ways, but I think that there, there's nothing diagnosed yet. I guess I could say, yeah,

Scott Benner 1:18:51
um, I think you're really gonna like that next episode that I was talking about. Yeah, I just wanted to be clear that when I just said that you're talking to a guy who graduated from high school did not go to college. And his entire, like, professional background is I was a graphic designer, I wanted to credit card collection, I worked in the sheetmetal shop and I have a podcast. So try not to look too deeply into.

Grace 1:19:14
Yeah, but you know what your education comes from the fact that you talk to so many different people, you have so much more world knowledge because of all of the vast individuals you talk to because of the podcast, so don't sell yourself short.

Scott Benner 1:19:27
Okay. I hear I'll give myself some credit. People are like, Oh, good. We were waiting for that hasn't happened. And I want to see how I can keep people like very private. My wife has an acquaintance who's been very sick. They've been going on for a while. And they usually talk by like, like face like I said it like you like you're not young and that's not how you only talk to people like through FaceTime and stuff. Like actually, yeah, let me come back to that in a second. But, you know, I keep overhearing these conversations about our illness or illness that they think I might have cancer and I'm like what is going on? On. So far, I finally just said to my wife, like, what are her symptoms? She rattled them off, and I was like, her irons low, she needs a complete iron panel. And, and she's gonna need an iron infusion. There's nothing wrong with her. She doesn't have cancer. And my wife like tells her that. And I guess she was just desperate enough that she went back to where she went and did it. She went to her doctor and gave the doctor my instructions. Okay, wow. And then she got a diagnosis, and she's on our way to feeling better. Oh, my God, I rely on it's ridiculous. I was like that woman's health has been saved by the fact that I have a podcast.

Grace 1:20:41
Yeah. Like, the fact that she was literally thinking she had cancer or you cannot.

Scott Benner 1:20:47
I was like, baffled that I'm like, How was no one seeing this? How come these tests haven't been run? Why am I the one who understands this? I really am an idiot. And I'm just like, I'm like, why is it me? You know? And now yeah. Now because it's been such a thing. And it's going on so long. And I don't know this person as well as my wife does, like, because what I want to do is I really want to speak to her and get my credit, but I can't thank you. Grace, I want to be thanked appropriately. Just like six months from now. You have some sort of like awakening, and it was from this? I want an email.

Grace 1:21:28
Yeah. You know, I'll be the first one. I probably

Scott Benner 1:21:32
I want to like, Scott, thank you for speaking to me so directly about my stuff. I've I feel better credit. Yeah, I want I want to I want that's all. I'm only doing there. So people like will tell now. I'm just kidding. I actually, I have to tell you. Um, I shouldn't joke while I'm being serious at the same time. I feel like some people can't separate it. But I love that. That we're talking about this. I really do. I got to the episode and recording with the the sex worker who should have come out before you so I mean, she's a she's a dancer, which is even something I learned. Like she called herself a sex worker and the entire lead up to the conversation. I was like, I wonder what kind of like work she does. Like, what, what am I gonna find out? Like, there was like, almost like, I walked up in the room. And I was like, I mean, I guess she could be a prostitute. I guess she could be this, like, I started going through all the things that I had. And then and this is what she does. And her entirety of her story is uncommon to my life experience. Yeah. And there was time when I was talking to her just like I'm talking to you now. And I feel the same way talking to you as I did talking to her. Like, I'm not going to record some like funeral procession conversation where we're all just depressed. And we're like, I see you have body dysmorphia. That sounds horrible. Like, tell me right, like you don't even like if we can still be people and talk so that this is relatable, so that someone might talk about it. Like, I don't care. Like if someone listens to this later and thinks like, Oh, God, he made the assumption that like, you know, lesbians do a certain thing, like, I don't care, like I want the conversation. And when I was talking to her, I talked to her on, like, on the level that she she sees herself. Like, I didn't I didn't judge her. I didn't actually have any judgment about her while I was talking, which is a major advancement for me as a human being and that came from the right, you know, I mean, so I don't know, I just think these conversations are much more valuable than people might give them credit for. Absolutely. Absolutely. I'm very excited that you did this. I I want to thank you a lot. I want to make sure that I'm not leaving anything out. But

Grace 1:23:52
I also Yeah, well, thank you for having me. I really, I enjoyed this.

Scott Benner 1:23:57
See, but I don't know if that means I just said See. See everyone I did it. I feel

Grace 1:24:07
that's what conversation. I believe

Scott Benner 1:24:09
that I had the same feeling just now as you have when you hide a Reese's Pieces wrapper and nobody finds it. You're like I did it.

Grace 1:24:15
I did it. No one caught me.

Scott Benner 1:24:17
No one caught me. Wow. You have Listen, aside of all this, and, you know, I'll let a little like it's not like it's a real secret. But I'll let the secret out of the bag like I talk to you like in the first 15 minutes not about this. Because part of me wanted everyone else to see that aside of these, like issues that you live with. You're You're just like everybody else. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like you're not like, you're not the Hunchback of Notre DOM like locked up in a bell tower and, you know, completely broken and this isn't. This doesn't happen to real people. It happens The people like this you don't mean like this is you don't I'm saying like I wanted people to understand like your, your lovely, pleasant, wonderful person and this this got stuck to you. You know what I mean? Yeah, but not by your doing Yeah. So I don't know I want to wish you luck but it sounds trite.

Grace 1:25:21
I think all the luck I can get gamma

Scott Benner 1:25:23
killer like I don't know what to say right now. Yeah. And you know, you can tell that we're winding down because now I just have what I think of as fun sex questions about being a lesbian, which I'm not going to ask you. This would only be for my own personal like knowledge. personal gain. Yeah, really would literally just be for me. So let's not do that and we'll stop now instead.

Unknown Speaker 1:25:44
Okay

Scott Benner 1:25:55
huge thank you to one of today's sponsors, G voc glucagon. Find out more about Chivo Kai Po pen at G voc glucagon.com Ford slash juicebox you spell that GVOKEGLUC AG o n.com. Forward slash juice box. I also like to thank Dexcom, makers of the Dexcom G six continuous glucose monitor for their longtime support of the Juicebox Podcast and remind you to head over to dexcom.com forward slash juicebox. To learn more and get started today

Hey, long episodes, I'm going to let you go just want to thank you for everything you do for the show, sharing it, listening to it, downloading it, talking about it with your doctors and your friends, etc. I really appreciate it. I'll be back soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast that was very abrupt but it's over now. Goodbye.

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