#496 How We Eat: Keto

Mike is an adult living with type 1 diabetes.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:10
Hello friends and welcome to Episode 496 of the Juicebox Podcast six of the Juicebox Podcast. Hello, Hello, friends. Hello. Hello. Today's episode is with Mike. Mike's had Type One Diabetes for a long time. And he's here to talk about how we eat. Mike will actually be back on the show later in the year to talk about some of his complications that we didn't cover that here. It seemed like it needed its own place. But look out for Mike again in an upcoming afterdark episode. Please remember while you're listening that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, I wonder how long I could get my voice for real. Always cold. No, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. We're becoming bold with insulin that hurt my chest. I used up all the time where I usually tell you there's a bunch of other episodes about how people eat but you'll find them they're in there somewhere.

This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by Omni pod makers of the Omni pod tubeless insulin pump, you may be eligible for a free 30 day trial of the Omni pod dash Holy moly. 30 days I know that's what you were thinking. Check it out at Omni pod comm forward slash juice box. And the show is also sponsored today by the Dexcom g six continuous glucose monitor dexcom.com forward slash juice box Get started today. do good things for yourself on the pod and Dexcom qualify as a good thing for yourself or for a loved one. You get my point. Okay, here comes the show.

Mike 2:11
My name is Mike. I live in San Diego, California and type one diabetic. And for those of you around the world, this is the good old USA.

Scott Benner 2:20
Alright, Mike, you and I know each other bizarrely In my opinion, just because of how I think of the world. So COVID hits. And I got caught up for a second in a hysteria that content providers all got caught up in the idea that somehow because people were going to now work from home, they were going to lose track of their of their people. And I think they they're like, Okay, well everybody's you know, using, you know, video chatting. We'll all do these video chats. People can say whatever they want. Mike, let me be cynical right out of the box. Okay, they can say if they want to, I just wanted to keep all my people connected and everything but they were already connected, like not going to work didn't disconnect them. I think people thought lives were going to change. And that these followers and I'm making quotes with my fingers, because I don't think of the people listening as followers. But I think that people believe they were going to lose their followers that their lives were going to change, they were going to forget about their favorite Facebook page, or charitable organization. So they tried to hold them all together. And then I fell right into it. I was like, I'll hold a zoom for everybody. And the funny thing is, is I liked it. I was like, Oh, this is nice, like get together a little bit. But we would have, I mean, sometimes 7080 people on that zoom, right? And so then I got competitive about it. Because there were other people holding them that had like four or 510 people and I was like I'm kicking their ass I should keep. But No, but seriously, like I had a really good time with it. But at some point, it wasn't sustainable. And people didn't need it anymore. Like I think after the fear of life just change really drastically, very quickly went away. I don't think I just I don't think people wanted it any longer. And And honestly, I felt like my time for everybody listening was better served making the podcast then, because it took a lot of time to do. But you were one of the people that came into it. Yeah, that's correct. Right. And that's where we met eventually.

Mike 4:25
Yeah, that's, that's where Matter of fact, it was. So I got turned on by the podcast several weeks before that. listening to it started applying your, your techniques of bumping and nudging and I was actually out on a walk. It was about 12 bags about 1130 California time, which was almost you were about halfway into your No, you weren't quite into it. You're almost into your first zoom chat which I heard on that pod. Okay, I'm like, trying to hurry back. So I could get in on the zoom. And I made it about halfway through. So that was our that was our first,

Scott Benner 5:08
right. And I know that we're talking about it, and I'm done being flippant about it, I really did like it. And I thought it was I thought it was great. What ended up happening was, unlike what I expected, I thought it was going to be like a conversation to make people feel connected. But it kind of quickly turned into, like, ask Scott and Jenny live except Jenny wasn't there. And people were just asking me a lot of questions, which I was happy to do, because you were seeing some people had the questions, but not the nerve to speak up. So if someone asked the question, everybody sort of got the benefit from it. And it's not that I wouldn't continue doing it. I do think it's nice, actually. But I don't know, like, I'll say I just I ran out. It got I was also thrown into COVID at the time, you know, so my life was kind of messed up, too. But I really didn't want to see, my concern wasn't like everyone else's. I don't think people are going to abandon this podcast. I think the podcast has a real solid following. My concern was not creating content in a moment when you needed something that represented normal to you. So I wanted there to keep being content. But then I was surprised by the whole thing. And I liked talking to everybody. It felt like I was giving a talk in public except I didn't have to get on a plane first. It was kind of nice, honestly.

Mike 6:32
Yeah, I think it was a it was a nice tie into it. Like you said at that time, COVID hit and everybody was freaking and panicking. So it was you know, we're at home, we're not out seeing our friends and our normal comrades who are listening to the podcast, and then to be able to kind of have that you did a few zoom kind of connection of, Okay, we're there together, which kind of

Scott Benner 6:53
comes every one of those makes, I have to be honest, I've gotten a number of notes during Corona. By the way, COVID Corona, I bounced back and forth, you think I'd pick one. But during during COVID I got a number of notes. And that was really what it was about from people like thank you for being consistent with the show. That was a real like strong threw in a lot of the messages. So anyway, I don't know if we were planning to have you on. Before we start I started talking to people about how they eat or not. But I do want to learn a little bit about you before we find out about how you eat. Just so how old were you when you were diagnosed? How old are you now

Mike 7:34
so yeah, so I was between I was actually miss diagnosed at first. I was around nine I was mis diagnosed from a general practitioner having an ulcer. I was getting my symptoms were getting those double over stomach cramps I guess I had the flu or something. And from my understanding that could trigger your body attacking this pancreas which was that's what was happening. Right? So Miss diagnosed with an ulcer, the doctor and the general practitioner diagnosed my mother with being too hard on me so sent her to a psychiatrist, which was furthest from the truth. So my poor mother long story short, they're treating me for a, an ulcer, and I'm just whether in a way, and they finally had taken me to the hospital. So it was right around 10 Wow. And then I was finally correctly diagnosed. Okay,

Scott Benner 8:29
we have to I know that you were young and it was not you're not. You're not an old man, but you're not a young man. And so I'm saying I know it wasn't five minutes ago but but do you have a little context for that? So they thought your mother was like, overbearing

Mike 8:46
about your health? Yeah, just life in general. Just you know, being a kid so the kid is you know, why would a eight 910 year old have an ulcer unless your mother was stressing you out? Oh, that was Yeah, so because I was having such bad stomach cramps bouts of it. When I guess my body was attacking the pancreas. We went to our general practitioner, he said, well, that bad of a stomach cramp. He's got to have an ulcer. So you have to be hard on the boy.

Scott Benner 9:14
What year was this like?

Mike 9:16
7074 75 right in that range? Okay. Because I remember around 76 when the Freedom Train came that's about when I was properly diagnosed. So yeah, so for a year so so I did the bare lilium test and all that stuff. And I remember that I remember that. The X ray technician was there doing the bare lilium whatever they call it stuff to see where the ulcer was. And I'm drinking the stuff of course my sugars are probably all out of whack from actually being a type one and diagnosed I met I just vomited all over the cutest technician. Remember the look on her face just saw this pink stuff. So that was that was my one of my memories of that but yeah, so my mother was dead. Not hard on us. She was an excellent mother. very loving, caring. But

Scott Benner 10:04
What a strange leap in. Like, how come they didn't think you were upset about, you know, the Nixon scandal?

Mike 10:12
Actually, I could have been, but I didn't follow politics at that time. You never know. I could have been a secret politician. But yeah, no, that wasn't wasn't the case. And it's kind of funny. We're not funny, but just pictures of around that time, you know, skin bones, all the symptoms, right? But

Scott Benner 10:30
nobody put it together from being pressured by somebody is what they thought. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's come a long way in a short time. Hmm. I know. It's hard to it's hard to feel that way in the moment. But for anyone, it's really like putting the numbers together here in the early 70s. Mike's mother was sent to a psychologist for how terrible she was to Mike because his stomach hurt. Yeah, that sexism in case you're wondering? Completely? Yeah, yeah. Wow, that's really crazy. Okay, so they originally they eventually find out that you don't have an ulcer? What's management, like in the early 70s?

Mike 11:07
Oh, my gosh. So in the early 70s, well, there was beef and pork, insulin, so you would take the beef until you were kind of, you know, resistant to that. And then you'd take the pork until you were not resistant to that there was no meters. No, there was no really way to test, they kind of you weren't falling over, you were doing good was kind of their rule of thumb. They had exchange rates, which, you know, you know, to starches, or that tend to call it to breads, fat, or protein. And you'd kind of try to do that and go on which throw that right out the window, you take a shot at that time was on one shot a day of a mixture of, you know, obviously the regular beef or pork and then long acting. And you just took that and went about your day. Nobody knew what you were, I was probably, I've probably always fight around 500 I had to bend because I never fell over.

Scott Benner 12:08
Like it really is when you stop and think about it. Like I'm assuming you'd eat something if you were dizzy. And then other than that, you didn't think about it.

Mike 12:15
Yeah, that was that that was it. And then you'd go to the doctor every three or six months, whatever it was, at that time, I really don't remember. And they would obviously do the a one to a one c test and scold your parents because you were probably too high. But that's how do you how do you bring it down? You know,

Scott Benner 12:31
in modern thinking, what that really makes me think about is just helping somebody the other day, I was teaching them how to correct a lower blood sugar without over correcting it. And I made this offhand comment. I was like, hey, look, it's so close right now. If your child has a chewy vitamin, like a gummy vitamin that you use, now would be a great time to give it and she's like, Yeah, he does that they only have four carbs on that. That's perfect. Give him four carbs. So Kate gets the vitamin. Of course she gets nervous because this she's just starting to learn how to do it and gives him a few Skittles. And then the kids blood sugar's 200. And keeping in mind that that's how it all works. Like imagine just Hey, I'm busy. I'll eat you weren't you weren't having to scuttle you were eating you were having a meal right if you got

Mike 13:21
oh yeah that time so the rays and boxes about the size of a cigarette pack. You measure how many carbs that thing had in it

Scott Benner 13:29
so that when you

Mike 13:31
eat one of those you drink plus that maybe the orange juice and so you were probably from you know 40 to 500 again overcorrection

Scott Benner 13:44
and when did meters come into your life?

Mike 13:47
So Gosh, I got my first meter and 1987 15

Scott Benner 13:54
or so years later

Mike 13:58
yeah krim 76 or whatever it was 287 So yeah, that's when I got my first meter there was your mid 20s really nothing before that really no control no

Scott Benner 14:12
and and I'm thinking that not being able to see your blood sugar in any kind of time forget like real time like nowadays if you have a glucose monitor if you're lucky to have one of those you you probably had no you probably that was probably starting over right getting a meter because

Mike 14:27
that was that was completely starting over so prior to that you just you took whatever insulin the doctor kind of prescribe you the morning and the evening and pretty much ate whatever you want to use.

Scott Benner 14:40
All right, When did you become a modern type one like When did you get a pump? When did you move to quicker acting insulin all that stuff?

Mike 14:50
Yeah, so prior to 87 when the the newer insulin came out the newer version pork and beef, I was switched to that, but never any control. And I was just living my life I was actually in Florida at the time. And in Fort Lauderdale. And so you know, eat and do whatever you want, I was overweight, out of shape out of control, my doctor was kind of like, because I had to have a prescription for insulin, you could buy the syringes over the counter. And so at that point, my doctor was ready to fire me as a diabetic and kind of said that nobody's gonna take care of you in South Florida less you go see this person and say that you're taking control. That's kind of when I became a modern diabetic, okay. And 8787, so to speak, and then got in shape, lost a bunch of weight on set, I was way overweight, and nakshi 91. I was my doctor's first patient on insulin pump at that time

Scott Benner 15:55
in 1991, four years, after four years after the doctor, I'm assuming told you look, you're close to being a lost cause in the system.

Mike 16:03
Yeah, pretty much. Okay. Well, you got to remember back in the 60s, the doctors estimated you had approximately 10 year lifespan. In the 70s. And I remember this vividly the doctor looking at me and saying, you'll never live in old folks home. So, you know, that was kind of a maybe a 30 year span. So in my mind, take into consideration it's got in my mind from a kid, I was never gonna live past 30. So why do anything different, right? Don't buy doctor and he said, you know, dude, you're, you're going down.

Scott Benner 16:38
So there's a shift in technology enough so that people didn't any longer believe that you were going to die. By the time you were 30. Except for you who had gone so hard after the idea that it was like maybe you Well, I find a lot of my my friends, you know, kind of my ages that were diabetic at that time. And I don't know why the age 30 wasn't a milestone or an argument of age, but pretty much everybody thought 30 was it. And then 30 came on like, I'm still here. I gotta wait to lose.

Mike 17:14
Technology definitely came along. And obviously, as I don't ever want to say it's a good time to be diagnosed type one. But nowadays, it's a pretty good error to be diagnosed with type one.

Scott Benner 17:26
It's better than it's better than the day before. Always. I feel like we think now the best time and one day you look back on this time and think Oh, I can't believe that's what we used to do. You know? If you're lucky if you're lucky, you get to think that Yeah, and by that I mean if we're lucky the technology will continue to improve and become more affordable so that people can look back at this moment think how barbaric a continuous glucose monitor ended insulin pump, you know, or whatever will happen. Interesting. How did you lose the weight? And because I because as I know you I'm sorry to cut you off. But as I know you you just seem like an older fit gentlemen to me.

Mike 18:03
Like that. Thank you. Yeah, yeah, so and obviously in 87 we got my first meter in the hospital for a week learn how to be in control. Doctors like you got to lose weight. And at that time, there wasn't a lot of type ones being very active and I'm, I'm either don't do it or get way involved in it. So I was an auto mechanic at the time of my parts manager was racing bicycles amateur. So he's like, man, once you get a bike and come along and and, you know, lose some weight because I couldn't jog anymore. I ran cross country and track in high school but I'd been in a bad car accident my knees wouldn't take it. So cycling seemed like the thing to be bought a bike and I lost 45 pounds my first month and got heavily into amateur bicycle racing.

Scott Benner 18:54
Well, you lost 45 pounds in a month riding a bicycle would you ride it to

Mike 19:00
Fort Lauderdale area day one a up and down and ended up doing about 1000 miles my first month. Wow. My first I remember my first ride out I could barely do seven miles without pulling over every mile and Oh, geez. And stretching and, and cramping and, and but yeah. So that's that's how I did that. And then just fell in love with cycling.

Scott Benner 19:24
See, I'm writing down a note here. You can't see what I'm writing, but it's by a bike. Because Jeez, that's amazing. Wow, good for you. That's right. It's not that good for him to invite you along and try to help. You don't mean like be a friend in that situation. Yeah, it was.

Mike 19:43
It was an interesting time. Again, it wasn't a lot of type ones at being that active. So I was my doctor is only that active of a diabetic. And he kept saying my BMI was you know, too low. You need to you need to gain weight and I mean To 20 503,000 calories a day, burn it off, and I had like, no body fat. So and then from there with the injections, I was on multiple injections obviously at that time, and I just couldn't get up in here that I was getting up at, like 2am, injecting going back to sleep, getting up at three eating, going back to sleep. And at 530, I get up and depending on my blood sugar, I could either go work out with the advanced groups. This is when I got more heavily into cycling, I could then go work out the advanced group I had to back off because of my blood sugar. So the pump seemed like the thing to do at that time. Yeah, it took me six months to convince them that a pump was a good idea.

Scott Benner 20:44
So you have an all or nothing like personality, then yeah, right. Yeah, I'm not burnout. I just heard a mike tyson recently say that he didn't want to even work out. Because he didn't want to reignite his ego about competition. And I sort of didn't understand what he meant. And then he went on to say, his wife told him he looked heavy. So he got on a treadmill. And then he went 15 minutes, and then he wanted to go 20, then you want to go an hour, they want to go three hours, because he's just very competitive. And he was doing it. So if he was going to do it, he was going to do it all the way. And now I'm hearing he's gonna fight Roy Jones Jr. in an exhibition match. So it's, you know, it was either I'm going to get fat, and that's it. Or if I start moving, I gotta go punch somebody because I'm a box. Yeah. Very runner up or down. Yeah. Um, so how much of that impacts how you handle other things. I'm wondering, I'm assuming a lot. And you're on here today. Mainly to tell us about how you eat so what's your eating style.

Mike 21:49
Now my eating style, I was eating any and everything. I do the cooking in the house, I like to cook. I teach barbecue. So I was eating any and everything. And with your methods, got my agency down. And recently a few months ago switch to keto. just seemed like the thing to do not having the impact of the you know, the heavy glycemic and out index just for me personally, it seemed to work out pretty good. So um, but I do about 29 carbs a day. And then high protein, high fat is what I'm doing.

Scott Benner 22:31
How long have you been at that? Hey, why don't you set your summer free with the Omni pod dash, you can enjoy your beach and pool days without having to disconnect your tubing or stopping your insulin. You can wear whatever you want, without having to worry about where to clip your pump, or how to carry your pen. There's no better time than the summer to try the Omni pod. Whether you've always wanted to try an insulin pump, or simply want to cut out your tubing for the summer. You can try the on the pod dash now for free for 30 days. Are you hearing through what I'm saying there? If you're using another pump, but you wish you had on the pod dash for the summertime, you can try out the free. You get it you're paying attention right? Go find out if you're eligible on the pod.com forward slash juice box. Maybe that on the pod dash trial for 30 days, we'll be right for you. And since you can now get your only pod through a pharmacy, there's no commitment or long term contracts. like there might be with other tube pumps. I feel like I'm telling you to cheat on your insulin pump. It feels weird. Okay, so if you want to learn more, if you want to find out the full terms and conditions of what I've just talked about, all you have to do is go to Omni pod comm forward slash juice box. Now let's talk about the Dexcom. CGM. Dexcom gs six continuous glucose monitor is the weapon of choice against diabetes. In my opinion, being able to see the speed and direction of your blood sugar or a loved one's blood sugar makes all of the difference in the world. No more guessing what your blood sugar is what it's going to be what this food does what that food does. No more like I'll just count my carbs and put in my insulin and then wait three hours and I'll test again if I'm Heil. Correct. And if I'm low, I'll eat some juice or something. No more. Now you can just see everything happen. You can. You're like, I know I'm old. But you know the matrix where, you know, Neo, you guys might know as john wick, he slows down time. And the bullets like stop at midair like Imagine being able to slow diabetes down so you can see it happening. So you can just step out of the way of a potential problem. Hmm, that's how I use it. My daughter's a one C has been between five, two and six, two for seven years now. I believe I've lost track. Our results are ours, of course, and yours may vary. But understanding what your blood sugar's doing is the first step to doing better dexcom.com forward slash juice box. I forgot to tell you about all the other stuff. It's got alarms and alerts and you can share your data with other people. But you'll figure it out the website dexcom.com. forward slash juice box on the pod.com forward slash juice box. Hey, what the heck Juicebox Podcast calm, get a little plug for myself. There's a little more music left. How about this? The diabetes pro tip episodes are available starting at Episode 210 in your podcast player, but you can also find them at diabetes pro tip.com. Alright, let's get back to Mike we'll find out how long he's been doing this and much more. I'm about May, since May. Okay, so you're coming up on six months? Maybe? Tell me when you make a decision to try something like that. How do you figure out how to do it even?

Mike 26:13
Oh, well. I did a lot of research first. Check with all my doctors. And I'm also working with Ginni with integrate diabetes, been a good help a lot of positive input. And just researching it figured out what's going to work and why. So that's kind of how I got into it.

Scott Benner 26:39
You know, you check with your doctor and say, Look, I'm going to eat like a high protein high fat diet. Is that okay with you like or at least be aware of it? I guess. So. You know, I look for I say,

Mike 26:50
yeah, so I was on obviously, high cholesterol, this that the other vaccine off my cholesterol medicine now. I get most of my carbs from like, for instance, broccolis beans, you know, low glycemic vegetables like that.

Scott Benner 27:06
So you had high cholesterol, so much so that you were on a medication for it? And now that you're eating keto, you don't need that medication anymore. Correct? Gotcha.

Mike 27:14
Yeah, it's interesting to get it, I could get into more of that if you want. But don't tell me about it, please.

Scott Benner 27:19
Because what it made me think about was when I when I, when I speak to somebody, and they're like, you know, we're getting low all the time. And I look at their graph, and I'm like, well, you need more basil. And they think that's not right, I said I was getting low, I must need less insulin. And so the, the, the thing they're seeing this low blood sugar makes them feel like, Oh, I definitely need less insulin, except they don't recognize that because their basil is far too low. There are over bolusing their meals, the meals are getting out of balance with the insulin, and they're causing this crash later. It's just very causal effect. And, and that made me think of that, like, you know, if I saw that my cholesterol was high, I might think to myself, well, I definitely have to eat less fat, right? Well, no, not necessarily. But that's what I would think. Yeah. So tell me about it.

Mike 28:09
Sure. Well, first of all, your theory of donco high, and you won't go low. And by and I was eating massive carbs. And I figured it out. But you know, I'm doing 1214 unit for lunch type of a Bolus. I'm thinking now that sense. And then you read about what is inflammatory in your arteries, and this and that it is the artificial, the bleached flowers, it's the artificial, anything low fat, low, you know, that type of stuff, they have to add stuff in there to make it taste good. So all that stuff is inflammatory to your. And again, I'm not a doctor, I don't play one on TV, I just want to preface that. But all the what goes into your veins is the inflammation is what's inflammatory, which causes the arterial disease. So if you're eating let's for instance, I do grass fed beef, free range chickens. I do the best pork I can find. I'm not doing heritage pork yet. But natural beef fat, your body was meant to process natural chicken fats, pork fat, if you're eating like margarines, and stuff like that, that has all the artificial stuff that's inflammatory. So if you take in the inflammatory stuff away from your diet, you you're, you lower your risk for the cardiovascular disease. And I look at the French they, you know, real butters, heavy creams, all the natural stuff, which was what your body was meant to process. It's like a grain fed cow. The molecular structure of the cow, the meat is changed and our body's not meant to process that so if you get a grass fed cow, our body's meant to process that same thing with you know, natural vegetables not you know, genetically modified vegetables. our body's meant to process that so and I can feel the difference. I'm just after, you know, several weeks of eating that way. And I don't know who you are, but there's nothing better than eggs fried bacon grease.

Scott Benner 30:13
You know, I'm sorry, you made me think of something my dad used to do. But

Mike 30:17
yeah, you know, and so, you know, using your methods and for Bolus and bumping and nudging and eating a better meal is, you know, I reached my goal and a one C. And if you look at my, my chart, my glide for the most part, yeah, I still have highs and still have a few lows. But it looks like a flatline. You know, most guys dead, which,

Scott Benner 30:41
what is your anyone say, at the moment,

Mike 30:44
my last day when C was 5.7. And I was head trending that way, just through looking at Dexcom. And those but I'm usually pretty close, I finally got my one taken several weeks ago, and it was it was 5.7 was my goal for you, to me, and I was proud of that. I was seven, two to nine. And my doctor was like, Great go to God, you know.

Scott Benner 31:06
So you're saying two to nine prior to finding the podcast? Yeah. And then consistently, and then you get to where would the podcast

Mike 31:14
with your podcast? I got down my best on my graph was five, seven, but I was averaging five, nine, okay, to 659 to 659 to six.

Scott Benner 31:23
And then the condo moved you more or not? Correct?

Mike 31:26
It did maybe down to five, seven? Pretty, pretty stable family.

Scott Benner 31:30
Excellent. Yeah. And you feel I think more importantly,

Mike 31:34
yeah, I feel a lot better. Um, you know, I've got a lot of nerve damage from prior just, you know, you figure all those years as a kid, no meters know this, that the other, but definitely feel better. I have hypoglycemic and awareness. So I'm trying to stay around the 100, not the 70 to 80. I say, till I get my, my next service dog back, and then I'll feel more comfortable staying down and then I'm shooting for, you know, below five.

Scott Benner 32:01
So that was my point. That's the point where I was disconnected for a second because if you have such a stable line, I was wondering why not that by the way, none of this is a judgement. I was just thinking like, if you were that good with the insulin and eating keto, I would think you could be closer to a five, then closer to a six. So I thought there must be a reason why you were doing that. And yeah, that's a very good reason.

Mike 32:22
Yeah, I've passed. Well, past several years, the wheels have fallen off the bus here but developed hypoglycemic and awareness. And so I got a service dog. And he was awesome would wake you up at night. You know, they're not robots, but they they can't do work for their train properly. So I was more comfortable. You know, being lower at that table. I was still in the sevens at that time, because that's what the doctor said. Yeah, you got a great, fine. Yeah, that 300 no problem, but it's just an excursion. Yeah, right. But anyways, so had the dog he had to have his kidney replaced. So he got replaced, and they're training another one now. So what once I know the dog will wake me up at night. I'm more comfortable being at a lower range.

Scott Benner 33:05
Gotcha. Hey, your dogs, like in a convalescent center somewhere.

Mike 33:09
Now he got retired. He's living in a two acre fenced in yard. Up in Riverside, I think it is. So he had to be adopted out because the medication he was on. He was not alerting properly. He had a reflex this energy, which is a bladder issue, which was caused anyways. So because he wouldn't alert properly because of the medication, he would sleep through the night sometimes. So I see had to be easily he had to be replaced. So he got retired. He's running around. He's happy for him.

Scott Benner 33:39
That's good for you, too. And how long will it take them to train a new dog?

Mike 33:43
They're training one right now. I've met in fact, they trained I had another one that wasn't trained for me but didn't work out. And where I work, he was just too afraid of the environment. Okay, so the training one now it should be anywhere from six months to a year. Wow. That's a nice time I set my clock to wake up every few hours and make sure that I'm in a good zone at night.

Scott Benner 34:04
And mostly you are. Yeah, yeah, for the most part. Gotcha. hypoglycemic unawareness is we never really talked about it. But since you're here, you you could be 20 and not know it right? You don't know until you're unconscious. Yep. Wow. No dizziness, no confusion. You're not talking oddly. Just not the you know, I'm I guess.

Mike 34:26
My wife says occasionally, she'll notice something. Hey, let's go test you. You know, because sometimes the CGM like backseat of the roller coaster, you know, it takes a few minutes to catch up. So I'm in that dip and don't don't know it. It's just yeah. happens. He's talking to you in 30. And Hi.

Scott Benner 34:45
Did you did you drag your wife into keto? Is she doing it with you?

Mike 34:48
Yeah, so she's doing since I'm cooking the house. She eats whatever and

Scott Benner 34:53
she has no real choice actually. Now

Mike 34:56
so she she's also doing keto. She does. She runs marathons. And she's actually noticed she has more energy with keto than not.

Scott Benner 35:07
Well, listen, I'm certainly no expert on any of this, which is why I'm trying to talk to so many different people. My experience in my life would be that when I was in my 20s, I gained a lot of weight. And we did the Atkins diet, which I think basically is, you know, very, very low carb. And I lost a lot of weight fairly quickly doing that. And I have to echo your sentiment that I felt, I mean, obviously, I lost weight. So I'd feel better about that in general. But I do believe that there's something about processing grain and flour and all that stuff that your body really just some people's bodies just struggle with. And, you know, so I am not at the point where I would, I don't mean restrictive in the way that you might take it, but I'm not at the point where I could do something that's as restrictive as keto, but I am really specific about what I eat, I guess, like I really try hard to stay away from most of the things you're talking about. In my day to day eating my day to day eating is very kind of natural. And I agree with you a little things like I'd rather use butter than margarine. You know, I tried for them not to be preserved as in things extra ingredients. I don't know what they are, I stay away from a lot of oils and processed food. But then at the same time, like the kids asked the other day, they're like, Can you make sugar cookies for us? And I was like, of course I can. So I whipped up some sugar cookies and now I'm not sure if I made them for them or me. But you know, so that's it really for me.

Mike 36:46
You can still eat the cookies. I don't find it hard personally hard to maintain, you know, keto, you know we don't i don't like go out to restaurants anyways and obviously we're don't go out because of COVID right now or Corona however you like you said you want to call it but I don't find it hard to to maintain because I was never a sweets person anyway, so you know desserts and cookies were never a thing even as a kid before type one. I just don't find it hard to there's so many recipes now and the early. I'm not saying anything against the early Atkins or whatever. But that was more of kind of a dirty keto for my understanding how well it was Mark, you know, eat all the greasy cheeseburgers and bacon and just all that versus you need to add some like the broccoli you need to have some carbohydrates so you get some of the more nert nutrients, the macros. And there's dirty keto now which there's dirty keto clean keto. I've tried to do it where I am doing a cleaner keto and, you know, again, we didn't have the cookies in the crap but that was a Dorito Holic or chip a Holic if you want to be generic popcorn a Holic just don't eat that stuff anymore. Because all the other ingredients that go with it.

Scott Benner 38:04
Yeah, so there's me I don't I if something comes in a bag, I don't eat. Like that just seems to be my role. I there's I've chosen aisles in the grocery store. That just, I don't go in anymore. I'm like, I just don't i don't go in that. That is not for me. Now the problem is, it's interesting for you is how old are you right now? 54. Okay, so you're 54 you're married? There's no children in the house right.

Mike 38:28
Now. Other than me, my wife would say no, yeah,

Scott Benner 38:32
I understand that. But like, I'm 49. Actually, I think I'm 49. The other day, I was confused about how old I am. I'm not quite, but I really don't know how I guess we can figure it out. But I'm not gonna bother there. I'm right around that space. And but I still have two kids in the house often on two kids, one kid for sure. My wife who's not interested in eating a specific way you're not away. And so I am a little in the middle of balancing everyone's desires around food, which is interesting. But I noticed for myself as I get older, food becomes more and more the way I wanted it to be when I was younger, like in my heart. If we could just if the Jetsons pill will just pop out on the table. And I can eat it and stay healthy and alive. I love cooking. But I think I would opt for that more often than not because I'm a slippery slope eater. For sure. Like I don't eat more Soylent Green. I don't know. Maybe I'm alright with that. Because I'm not like, I'm not like, oh, sugar cookie. I'll have one of those. I'm like, oh, sugar cookie, I just won't eat today. And I'll have five sugar cookies today. Instead, like I'll make sugar cookies my whole day. And I don't meaningfully understand that about myself. But I can't eat chips. Doritos, like that stuff. I would be like sick and biking. I can make popcorn and like have a handful of it. But then I'm done. Like I couldn't eat a bowl of it. It's if it's the salt and butter. If it's gonna get me Yeah, if that makes no sense and sugar I guess to in there, but otherwise I put sugar in nothing. And I am one of those people that if everyone around me stopped eating that way, I don't think I ever would again. But that it's here it gets me. It's

Mike 40:15
that's why we couldn't keep some of this stuff in the house. Like I couldn't keep chips in the house because if I knew it was there, you know, you have one I need the whole bag. of popcorn. I'd get up at three in the morning. It's like popcorn is like crack cocaine for me. Anyway, all the people out there that know me, you'll know who I am. I just I have no control over power. Yeah,

Scott Benner 40:34
yeah. No. Is it the sometimes I think it's the texture more than the food. I don't know if that makes sense. Or not like I like the way cookies feel on my mouth. I don't like the way string beans feel in my mouth. I don't know what psychological issue I have around that. But I am tactile to begin with. Like when I go shopping. I end like in a clothing store. I touch everything. Yeah, like I want to touch the like I it's part of my ability to like understand that there are things I don't like the way they feel in my mouth. And you know, I don't know another way to put that but but so to the Quito what are some examples of Fuji now You and I have something in common? A you obviously were doing it much longer than I was. But at the beginning of COVID I decided I was going to learn how to smoke meat. And I started right around the time COVID started it was hard to get a hold of a grill to be perfectly honest around it's hard to buy anything right now, actually, but I got it and I've spent the last like five or six months. Like I can make ribs now terrifically, even little things like I like to have turkey in the house to slice up. So instead of buying like lunch meat, I'll go buy turkey breasts and just smoke them. And then and I slice at them as I need them. That that I've really enjoyed actually learning how to do all that. I've learned how to make pizza on the grill from like scratch, like from like scratch scratch. But you helped me in the beginning because I didn't know I didn't know a lot about it. I ended up asking you a lot of questions. But yeah, is that where most of your food comes from?

Mike 42:10
Well, yeah, a lot of it does. Because anything you could do in the oven you could do in the smoker, you know the they go from depending on your brand, a smoker, they'll go from, you know 150 to 600. So when you get the higher temperatures, it's like that woodfired pizza oven flavors. Obviously I don't do pizzas anymore. I used to do a same thing. Make my own dough ton of pizza as we do a lot of couches prior but now doing keto I smoke got a great recipe for smoked meatball so well one of the one of the dishes is some boiled or not boiled but pan fried kind of get moist out tomatoes, some spinach, some cheeses and the smoked meatballs instead of cooking the meatballs in the oven. I smoked them and they're just they're awesome smoke a lot of my vegetables that we eat you know do admit In fact, yesterday I did the barbecue started teach with just started to import or not importing but they started selling Australian wagyu and that is just a bomb. So I did a wagyu tried tip yesterday for dinner. That was amazing. Couple days prior to that pulled pork do a lot of ribs. Hamburgers on the on the smoker. Do you ever do more

Scott Benner 43:31
exotic animals like elk or venison or stuff like that? Do you get involved in that at all?

Mike 43:37
I've gotten a little bit one of my co workers is a big Hunter. And he'll bring stuff in and he'll give me a package of whatever and he'll say let's I'll be out for lunch tomorrow at whatever time so I got a smoker at work too. So

Scott Benner 43:55
it is something you walk away from for a long periods of time. So you can't get a lot of other things done while it's happening. It's just a little bit of pre planning is how I find Yeah, you know, what we do?

Mike 44:03
We do low and slow and hot and fast. Depends on what you're cooking. So that's good. I like it. That tried tip last night took me an hour and a half. Yeah, I did that at 380.

Scott Benner 44:16
Well, does everybody and everybody doesn't need this kind of time to eat keto, right, like there's ways to do it. No,

Mike 44:22
no, no, no, you can. You can whip stuff up fast. Like I said, that's kind of the most people eat 1520 different items. That's kind of what seems to be the average people's diet. So we repeat a lot of our meals throughout the week, be it salmon be at the meatballs with the spinach and tomatoes, be it you know, the spaghetti you know the zucchini spaghetti so a lot of the dishes we do was kind of the same thing and I've always been a 20 minute or under kind of meal guy for the average. So something you could come home and make quick But good and healthy. So I find that a keto it's easy. There's a lot of different apps you can get. One of the specific ones I has will will suggest menus, you put in your, your, your body weight, your your birth, your height, what you want to do you want to maintain lose gain, and it'll suggest meals and recipes for you. So it's, it's, it's as hard as you want or as easy as you want. And that's an that's an any diet, be it high carb, low carb. Yeah, paleo.

Scott Benner 45:31
It's funny, as you're talking, I realized that everything is everything's branded in the world today. Like you could sit here and you're like high carb, low carb, keto, paleo, vegan, vegetarian pescatarian. Like, you know, everyone's branded their way of eating. But in the end, you're eating more meat with vegetables, and no grains. It's like, yeah, that's kind and no, you don't eat processed food. That's pretty much, right.

Mike 45:56
Yeah, no, I eliminated all processed foods. Matter of fact, we went through all our cabinets, and we came up with like, three boxes of stuff that we donated to the church of everything that we just don't eat anymore. All the processed the carbs, the pastas, you know, all that stuff. Yeah,

Scott Benner 46:14
I found myself I got away from my idea earlier. But I wanted to finish by saying that I find that as I get older, I don't see eating as entertainment anymore. Maybe. But as the way I did when I was younger, I don't know why that is. I mean, it's not it's not wisdom, certainly, cuz you could bring a couple of those cookies in here, right now, I'd be like, I'm gonna eat those. And I wouldn't even I wouldn't even need to want them. But when. But when I'm very careful about my, I guess I do eat on an intermittent schedule. And when I'm specific about that, you know, say you started, start off not eating that way. And then I moved into an intermittent fasting schedule. So I went from like, 11am to 7pm. And I would just eat in that space. And for the first month, I was like, I'm just gonna test the idea of intermittent, I'm not going to limit me, I'm just gonna eat the way I always eat right in here. And I lost like, 15 pounds doing that, and generally did feel better. At some point, I found myself in the middle of the baseball season for my son getting home a little later. And I was like, Well, I didn't eat dinner yet. And it's 730 I'll just eat. And then I wouldn't get done eating till 815. And then that was that was the slippery slope, right? Like, then you're just sort of like, Oh, well, it's, you know, 1030 I'm hungry. It's sad. elevens almost coming and that, but it's very specific about that schedule, and how your body deals with having food or not having food with, you know, insulin levels and energy and a lot of other things. And as soon as you get outside of those hours, I could eat anything inside of those hours and lose weight. But as soon as I opened those hours up a little more, I put the weight back on again. It started to come back. It was it really, really interesting. I don't know, I don't think there's a right answer for anybody. I think that what works works and you know, if you're listening, if you're listening to you and going look, Mike, alright, but I wanted some bread, you know, like, you still could not eat a bag of Doritos. You know what I mean? Like, there's reasonable

Mike 48:14
I don't crave this stuff anymore. I don't crave because I used to eat out fast food. It was just easy. burger fries. Come home. I made all my own breads, all this stuff. And you know, you need a loaf of bread in two days. Because it was good. Yeah. But because you're not having those spikes and insulin and spikes and you know, all that sugar and salt and things that come with that. I I don't crave anything anymore. It's just an I used to like, see a fast food commercial that literally my wife and I really had to go get the keys, get in the car, go get whatever they were advertising. Pavlov's dog. Yeah, it really was. And I did. And since and I crave that. So I thought I craved it for a longest time that I had a cheat meal. We have local fast food. Mostly Southern California, Texas, had these little mini tacos, and I just used to love those are tiny tacos. And so I finally went in one day, I'd been a couple months into keto and I had it for lunch and I shot up to 300 I felt like crap. And I'm like, never again and I I just don't crave that stuff Good for you.

Scott Benner 49:18
Well, I think in the end, you're not saying anything crazy. You're saying there are natural things that were on the earth long before someone figured out what high fructose corn syrup is. And people ate those things for a long time. So our bodies have developed and grown to be good at that stuff. And you know what, by the way, I have no idea. I'm not a scientist, nor am I a person who can see the future. But there's part of me that thinks that one day we all might just weigh 500 pounds and be really good at digesting high fructose corn syrup. I don't know that. That's not that that can't happen. But I can I can definitely say I don't want that to happen to me. So I'm with you. Not as Are you lose me as vegetables? I just I really dislike vegetables. It's probably my parents fault because they used to yell at me about eating them and I think they really made me hate them like I feel a defiance about them

Mike 50:12
depends on the vegetables and again, we don't eat tons of them but and it's like the green stuff the the Rockies the cauliflower is not green, unless it shouldn't be green. But if and I hated brussels sprouts and asparagus until he cooked them on the smoker Konya smoker on about like 300 little either olive oil and whatever barbecue rub you want. Throw them on the smoker for a little bit. I love asparagus and brussel sprouts now. Really? Yeah. All right, Mike.

Scott Benner 50:41
Well, I'll tell you what, you send me the you send me a recipe for brussel sprouts and asparagus on a smoker. I will try it and I'll include it in this episode. Because I will if you can make me a Brussel sprout you're a magician.

Mike 50:57
Dude, I seriously man, I tried them over the years because your taste change? I think Well, let me try it. Let me try it right up until several months ago, you could not pay me to eat brussel sprouts or asparagus. Okay, now it's like part of one of our staples. Yeah.

Scott Benner 51:10
Well that I would love to know about that. Because I don't think I have I cook them for my family. So like everybody else here eats asparagus and brussel sprouts as two examples. Like I make a lot of vegetables, I just make them and then I don't touch them afterwards. Which is also makes it by the way harder as the cook to make because I don't really know what I'm shooting for and texture and things like that, you know?

Mike 51:32
Well, that's that's another neat thing with like flash flash and like Tomcat flash frozen vegetables. So if you get like those steamer bags of broccoli, that you throw in the microwave for 10 minutes, that's probably better than buying the fresh stuff at the grocery store and either over steaming it. It's simple, it's easy, you divided it up, put your favorite barbecue rub on it, and it makes it even better. And a little bit of butter here so butter and salt will cover a lot of

Scott Benner 52:03
what broccoli is. Is that what you're telling me?

Mike 52:04
No, no. I was you know, not I wasn't implying that. But you know, if you want to flavor it, but it's it. Some of that stuff is my point is it's so easy to make nowadays. Because you don't have to have you know, go to the store, get all the fresh vegetables, you got to eat them. Within a few days, they start going back, get to flat flash, frozen tongue twister, flash frozen vegetables, and there is healthiest eating and getting fresh. And it's it's not. That was my point. It's not hard to eat good.

Scott Benner 52:37
Yeah, well, I because I think that that ends up being one of the arguments sometimes about any diet structure is that people are like, Oh, it's so expensive to do. You know, because you're talking about meat meats more expensive. Is there a way to eat keto? I guess not. Because that would be dirty, right? If I was doing it with lesser meats, I guess or

Mike 53:00
Well, you know, you want to get the best you can afford. And, you know, grass fed beef sounds obviously better, a little bit more, it's not that much more. If you go to a restaurant, and you're going to spend 30 bucks a pop, if you go out to a fast food joint, it's almost $20 for two people anymore. So if you spend, let's say six bucks on a pound of grass fed beef, that's going to feed the two of you, there's three bucks a person for better meat than you would get if you went to the restaurant or the fast food place, right? Or just spent $1 less than got the, you know, the regular grain fed. So it's really not expensive. It's kind of you know, if you watch what you're doing, and we don't ever get I don't look for sales. I don't do coupon shopping. I'm just I don't want to say I don't have the time for it. But I just I don't have the I don't have the patience for it.

Scott Benner 53:53
I always, every time the cashier says Do you have any coupons? I said no. I'm against saving money. Thank you. Because I know that's how it feels to them. But I'm just I don't have the mind for it. Like you could cut out a coupon and leave it on the countertop. And I'll just I won't remember it. I don't know why that is exactly. Okay. Well, what what what do you think people should know about keto eating that they don't know? Like, what's what's not in the, you know, out in the world about it, things you learned or things you think they should know?

Mike 54:26
Gosh, well, I always remembered from the prior and even my mom and my mom's still stuck in the 70s for diabetes education, and how things work and it's like no, and when the the Atkins and I'm not talking about about it, I think it's a it's another alternative for people but the original is your body was going into ketoacidosis at that time, which was thought to be the same as diabetic ketoacidosis, which is bad. What you're actually doing is you're going to a keto keto Genesis. So your body's learning to burn the fat That's the one thing that my wife said was gives her more energy before when she would run it would take her four or five miles to warm up. Now she is warmed up in the first mile because you're not, you're not accessing all those glucose sources right away to try to deplete, you're burning, you're burning, you're burning fat. So that's why you have the higher fat but you need good fat the grass fed if you can butters are regular butter, the fat from the pork, the beef, even beef tallow you can use in cooking so you're putting clean fats in your your your body that your body was meant to burn, it's the same thing and they the whole cholesterol thing back when you know margarine came about and so they everybody go low fat low this, and they were still having all this coronary artery disease and heart attacks. Well, it was from all the inflammation that you were getting from all the non fat, low fat, all the additives. So by by eating, drinking whole milk, using whole creams, using stuff your body was meant to process, your body's going to run cleaner. And I've noticed my blood pressure's lower. Like I said, I got off my, my cholesterol medication and again, consult your physicians, your doctors, you know,

Scott Benner 56:14
don't just start taking your medication.

Mike 56:16
No, but it you know, it got it lowered just because I'm not having all that stuff. So, you know, I like you can do this. There's there's keto without eating meat, you know, people who don't, you know, vegans or whatever the Monday you could still get your proteins from your, your lagoons and what have you. But, you know, it's, it's, it's been good for us. It's not difficult. You're not not eating food you enjoy, I'm not eating, you know, crap, or just stuffing myself with, you know, stick of butter in my coffee every day. So, you know, there's no look into it. There's, there's keto for diabetics, and there's a lot of good information, and there's a lot of bad information out there. So that's, that's why I consulted. You know, like all my doctors. Again, Jenny, she's a dietitian. And, you know, did my research do? I would say, with anybody, any diet is do your due diligence, do your research, don't just listen to one source. Yeah, and find what works for you.

Scott Benner 57:25
I think too, I mean, about finding information, like, everyone's got their, you know, the, everyone's got the castle, they're defending, you know, for the most part, and because I don't eat any specific way, I thought maybe I'm a good person to talk to about how other people eat because I really don't, I don't have a, you know, I don't have a horse in the in the race. I don't care one way or the other, you know, just say what you're gonna say. But I think too, you got to be careful about people who are making money off of things. So if you know, it's, hey, there's this keto lifestyle, and for just $50 a month, we'll take like, there, you're there, you're falling into a trap. I admit, I agree with you about the about the fats, and about natural foods as well. Like, I would just never eat margarine. But my wife's like, you know, she's like, this is what I have to do, because there's less fat and I'm like, I really think you're wrong. You know, but there's, I can't get through to her. And she's she and maybe I'm wrong,

Mike 58:16
you know, so it's, it's all processed under high heat. And it's like, like, you know, the vegetable oils on stuff. It's all processed with high heat. So it's actually not good for you. It's inflammatory. So, you know, it's not for everybody. And then there's there's the other side of it that you know, if you want to eat a certain way when you want to have pizza, and is that the other you can figure it out that works for you. You know what, back to you.

Scott Benner 58:42
Oh, yeah, I I genuinely imagine people understand that are listening. But in case someone's coming in from the outside, like, I'm not doing these episodes, because I'm trying to change anybody's mind. I just, you know, I think everybody, if we're going to understand how to use insulin, it should be everybody should understand how to use it, not just people who eat, you know, whatever a classic meal is they mean, if somebody eats keto, they should know how to use insulin just the same as if they don't, so I'm just trying to pump information into the podcast.

Mike 59:08
cut my insulin way in half. My basil rates are obviously down, way down. And I've noticed which didn't take me long to learn but I had to learn the different proteins for instance, like the beef, the hamburgers, or whatever, that kind of fats versus the pull the pork fats, and then they kind of hit me differently. Okay, so I have a different approach to is, you know, obviously, I don't Bolus before I eat I Bolus after and then depending beef, pork or whatever, I might do an extended. I'm using loop so I'll do an override maybe a 30% override for three or four hours. And I found that that works pretty good for me and I'm typically pretty on you know, the other day I had a pretty bad day. I Got up higher than I wanted to. But, you know, yeah, stretches of the world also add to that.

Scott Benner 1:00:05
No kidding. I think it's it's so important for people to hear that in any context. I mean, you're eating almost no carbs. And your blood sugar is going up from protein. And the fat, it's so I mean, there's a pro tip episode about it. And I mean, we've tried our hardest to, like, make sure people understand that it's not just some magical diabetes rise that happens. But you know, that protein gets broken down, and it gets stored as glucose. So yeah, yeah, it's not hard to understand, I guess, if you if you put it simply enough, but it happens later. So you can't you can't Pre-Bolus and eat keto, because that insulin will crush you before that process of the breaking down of the protein ever happened?

Mike 1:00:47
Correct? Yeah, yeah, I was. I was Pre-Bolus and maybe up to an hour before. So I had for the most part, for the last. I don't how many years, I've had a turkey sandwich for breakfast every every morning. When I know out hits me too. I really enjoyed it. And I would Pre-Bolus almost up to an hour before eating that and kind of hit that right. And with keto for breakfast, I'm depending on where I'm at. Might be a half hour to an hour after before I Bolus for the proteins in the fat.

Scott Benner 1:01:18
Do you find your your kidneys and and just the the system of disposing of liquid waste is an easier process without carbs. Do you mean I don't know. I just find that if I if I feel like my, if I feel like my health is tumbling in the wrong direction. I'll go to a very low carb thing for a couple of days. And the first thing I find happens is that the excess waterway to me just goes away. Like are you retaining less water now?

Mike 1:01:48
No. So I drink a ton of water. So prior to Corona COVID

Scott Benner 1:01:57
let's call it COVID

Mike 1:01:58
COVID I keep a case of water in my truck or car Jeep whenever I was driving the day and anywhere I went even if it was to the gas station a block away I drink a bottle of water. Okay, so I was drinking, you know, 10 1215 bottles of water a day. Since I'm not driving, I drink a 12 pack minimum of sparkling water, which is basically nothing in it. So I'm always flushing anyways. Okay,

Scott Benner 1:02:23
so your process?

Mike 1:02:26
Yeah. I've noticed I probably have a little bit more water retention. Since I'm not doing as much like I'm not working as hard right now. But I know that's just water. And but I'm still constantly flushing. So I haven't noticed the difference in that.

Scott Benner 1:02:44
Okay. I'm just wondering. Hmm, but you do need your fiber. I will say that, hey, listen, I am not embarrassed at all. Let me just say something right here right now. What I use is an old classic Metamucil still has the sugar in it. I don't want any of that fancy sugar free Metamucil into a few ounces of water. Everything is perfect forever. And why do I have to do that? Because I don't mean the goddamn vegetables.

Mike 1:03:12
I noticed that's one thing I noticed. I am using a psyllium husk. Good that doesn't have any sugars or additives. So even with the vegetables I'm eating, I'm not eating a ton. But and I wasn't eating a lot of vegetables prior. I'm doing that better now. But so I'll do a teaspoon of that. And I find that that worked out quite well.

Scott Benner 1:03:33
I have to be honest with you. I joke about it because I'm older. But I wish someone would have found me when I was 20 years old and said hey, pick a fiber supplement. I really do wish somebody would have said that to me. I think it would have changed my life. Yeah, it can't hurt just have a little have have enough supplements have enough in you that what your body needs is available to it. And that's all do you take any supplements at all like I take I take a zinc and a D? I take a fish oil and vitamin B every day

Mike 1:04:07
you do I started taking just a men's 40 plus just kind of a I mean, I get a lot of I never got the keto flu. I've always had enough sodium and mineral from all the rubs and barbecue stuff. So I just took that on a recommendation. But other than that prior to that I've never taken supplements. I didn't understand what you just said keto

Scott Benner 1:04:27
flu.

Mike 1:04:29
Yeah, so when you start keto, sometimes people say they get a headache. And is because if you're most processed foods, I'll have a ton of sodium you go to fast food sodium, you go to the restaurant sodium. So your minerals go down when you start keto if you're not keeping that up. So because a lot of people don't salt heavy, so if you're when you go to keto, your your electrolytes get lower. So you need to pay attention that and one of the sides of that, as they call it keto flu, you get a little bit of a headache, you're foggy. Okay, you can take some chicken broth and kind of get over that level now,

Scott Benner 1:05:08
I guess also you're getting away from sugar. Possibly too, right? If you're making like a real firm switch like, bang, I'm going from this to that.

Mike 1:05:16
Yeah, well, the breads I used to make only had three teaspoons for the lopen anyways. But yeah, there's sugar in french fries that you get at the fast food and there's, you know, sugar and salt makes everything taste better. So yeah, you're getting away from that, but it's mostly the the electrolytes the salts. Okay.

Scott Benner 1:05:31
Have you stumbled during this process at all? a loaf of French bread got to you or something like that? or?

Mike 1:05:38
Yeah, so we had, it wasn't I'm not blaming my wife for that monthly, but we did have a pizza the other day. Yeah. And it was horrible. And I felt like I'm so glad I had it.

Scott Benner 1:05:49
So you ate the pizza and your body just rejected the idea of the pizza.

Mike 1:05:53
I used to be able to eat half. if not more of a pizza, we'd go to the the one of the local places that's national chain and it was deep dish. It was great. And we could easily eat half of it and some of the cheesy breads and I had two pieces and I felt like I ate a cow. Yeah, just just your your body was like what, why? Why are you doing this? And I was like, you know to at all night I was like I kept just Bolus Bolus, Bolus 200% override it was I it was.

Scott Benner 1:06:26
So when I make mine, I make a nice like it's a Neapolitan is a very thin crust. And you know sparsely with cheese, and there's some sauce and maybe I'll put like, you know, sausage or something like that on it. But they're also like 12 inch pizzas. And I could probably eat like, I guess if I pushed myself. I could eat a whole 12 inch pizza, but I don't usually. And then I don't make it again for five, six weeks. And then yeah, it just pops up on a Sunday. Like sometimes I just want to get up in the morning and cook all day and not think about anything and and

Mike 1:06:59
Well, yeah, when we were normally when I was making pizzas I do. You do a typical dough ball. I put it in forts. I make my own for myself and then whatever trophy wife wanted, and we do pesto's I do barbecue sauces. We do you know, all that stuff, you know, pretty thin crust. And that's the stuff when I was making them.

Scott Benner 1:07:20
How do you handle barbecue sauce when you're like, do you use any sauces when you smoke Are you just mostly dry rub everything.

Mike 1:07:26
I pretty much dry rub. I've never been a fan of barbecue sauce. Just because meat has to stand on its own. But for the pizzas that we use a little thin, then barbecue sauce. So one of the things we used to do the way I teach barbecue at the barbecue started every month we'd have a free for all barbecue come down and I'd make you know 50 6070 pizzas, and we'd use the different sauces that he sold in the store to show what you could do with it. Yeah, and you're using a tablespoon maybe on a pizza. So it does doesn't hit you too hard.

Scott Benner 1:08:00
Right? That makes sense. Yeah, I have to say that. The moment I learned that pizza crust had to be cooked, hot and fast changed. I yeah, I make too much and my neighbors can kind of smell it happening. You see them they're in the backyard. They're kind of like his he can offer me a pizza. You know, and and I'll kind of pass them out a little bit. My one neighbors like this is the best pizza in town. And I was like, well, it's just, you know, just put a little more effort into the dough and and and by the way, I feel like because I cold ferment the dough and it takes days for it to come together. I actually feel like my body processes it better than then if I would have made it the other way. I I can't imagine that I could ever completely. I should say that I think I believe and I agree that flour, processed white flour is not something your body's meant to deal with. I believe that. And at the same time, I don't know what's going to have to happen to me. For me to not have pizza again.

Mike 1:09:05
I'll send you a recipe for a dough it uses Parmesan cheese, eggs, and such. And if you if you can tell me that it doesn't taste like real pizza dough or if not better than some of them. Really. I'd be surprised. Yeah, we did. We did several different doze and that one restaurant that we the national chain that we would get them from I love that flavor and it is really close to their cheesy bread flavor. And then some of my prior to that goes I'd use double lot flour. And it was just some of the best Oh,

Scott Benner 1:09:36
yeah, no, I there's definitely ways to make good food better. And it but it takes a lot of effort. And a lot of you know, time I think that's what I said earlier like sometimes I just want to like when I'm looking for a day off on a Sunday. I sometimes choose cooking something that takes a lot of time because nobody can argue with that. Nobody can look at you and go Hey, go do this now to be like, Oh, I can't sorry. This is how long it takes to make the pulled pork. Yeah, it's like so um, and by the way not not to go down the rabbit hole but I made pulled pork and crock pots before my life and I thought they were good and smoking uphold pork is a is magical it just it's an I lean towards you I make the meat in more of I guess would be considered more of a Texas style which is just dry rubs and and nothing really wet on them. I do put a little bit of a thin sauce on the on the ribs but but i like i like that style of cooking meat.

Mike 1:10:38
Yeah, we do competition ribs, we we saw some a bit for that kind of turnout, which is a different read than you'd normally have that you'd cook for your your friends and neighbors. But that's pretty much the only time where you really use sauces and honeys and

Scott Benner 1:10:50
yeah, that's that's too much. The other thing about me is I eat like a little girl. Like I'm not kidding, like I, I have a little bit of food, which is sad all the time. Like I'm the fattest guy, it doesn't need that you've ever met in your life. Because, you know, I'll make these three racks of ribs. There's only four people in the house. And I take four or five little ribs off and I'm done. I'm like, Oh, they were really good. And they're like, have more. I'm like I can't I'm kind of full. You know, like I fill up easily. It's it's fascinating how quickly I get full. I actually I'm insulting little girls who I'm sure it could pretty much out eat me No problem. I don't know how it is. I don't know, I don't know how it is I eat Exactly. But I get full quickly. And then it's funny when with empty calories. I don't get full. Like with the cookies, I could eat them. Like mass wise, I could eat way more cookies than I could eat beef for some reason. It's

Mike 1:11:42
because your body keeps spiking insulin, which then makes you hungry again is coming down. Yeah. It's just that it's just an effect like Chinese food effect.

Scott Benner 1:11:50
I believe you and I know it's right. And I've heard enough people talk about it. I've seen it happen enough in my life. There are some foods that just turn your brain and your body into a garbage disposal for more of that it just makes you want it in a way that is I mean, they say rice Sugar Sugar is more addictive than, than some drugs they say it is. Yeah. So can be. Alright. What have we not put in this episode that belongs in here? Anything? Um, gosh. You know, it's Monday,

Mike 1:12:25
I had a couple of points. I just want to make sure we we hit or talked about, I appreciate them. Yeah, so I kind of want to go back to from when I was first diagnosed to then when I got in control in the 80s to kind of now it's education, diabetic educators education as far as Ed, your podcast is, I think does the most justice to the world. Because there's just not enough education out there. And what you do the pro tips, the Ascot and Jenny, which, you know, if you're in the hospital, you get your five or 10 minutes education, you leave and nobody thinks to go back. And nobody really tells you to go back, which is a disservice to type ones because as things change as technology changes. So my first training was in the 70s, which wasn't my trainings, my parents. My second training was when the 80s and that was kind of it, then you figure it out. My third training was education. What I mean by training was your podcast. And then I continued that with Jenny, which you have to relearn things or talk about things which like I said, My doctor 20 years just told me I was doing great. never told me you know, maybe she'd go back and get some more education on diet or control or how to come from between seven and nine down to respective. Like I said, I got a lot and you know, neurological damage and neuropathy. And, you know, education is key. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:13:57
I work or somebody just say to you, hey, by the way, you know, protein could turn into sugar, sugar needs insulin, you know, like any of those things could be told to you and, and and genuinely aren't. And I think I at this point, I'm at peace now with why it happens that way. I just don't. I mean, listen, it's gonna sound pompous for half a second. But I'm really good at explaining diabetes to people. And so I've tried, in my mind to wonder if I was a doctor in that situation, how would I get this across the people? And the best I can come up with is I would send them to the podcast. I can't. It's too much. And it's you can't just we're not machines. You can't just download that much information at one time and have it make sense the next time you need it. I think it's something about the conversational nature of this. It's part of why it sticks to you.

Mike 1:14:55
It is and and after, listen to the podcast and work Going with Jenny. And, again, my doctor 20 years it never said to do better. But I think they have a, they have a guideline that they have to go between, okay, keep people around seven, you know, and now we have CGM and such, how much damage could have I avoided? You know, 15 years ago when I got my first or Dexcom. seven plus, you know, just just with that technology might have might have I avoided but I think, again, most of my damages from early on, but you know, I think the doctors have a guideline they have to go to, I think they could gently refer you for to the podcast, if you want to know more fine tuning this will work because there's not a lot of I don't want to say there's not great diabetic educators out there sure that they also have a guide. Yes, there are, but they also have guidelines that they need to follow, which is what the doctor tells him, right?

Scott Benner 1:15:50
Yeah, and there's no point when you can say to somebody like, oh, that happened, all you really got to do is this, like the hacks and the, and the little things that you would only know by doing it every day, no one's either gonna think to tell it to you, or they're gonna be afraid you're gonna misunderstand it. And so there's that piece of it, too, is that nobody really wants to say it out loud. You know, which is fascinating.

Mike 1:16:12
10% of type ones that are taking care of themselves, the rest of them just, you know, I know my I got some friends it just like, yeah, you're a zealot. Yeah, for wanting to talk to other type ones and hang out. But, you know, I don't think that's true. But you know, it is what it is it.

Scott Benner 1:16:31
I don't think there's a way to understand. And then to put it into practice, if you don't immerse yourself in it a little bit. And, you know, I heard from somebody recently, and I, you know, I took some time to talk to this person on the phone at the end, I said, Okay, so here are these episodes I want you to listen to and then you can contact me back and ask me any questions you have? And she said, I don't have time to listen to that. And I don't think she meant it that way. I think she meant I don't have time. Like, I think I meant she, I want to make sure I'm like saying it correctly. She couldn't imagine giving time away to this thing, because diabetes is such a, like a Hellfire in her life. So what I said was, look, I don't think this is going to be cliched, but you don't not have time. Like you have to make time for this. Because you could all the time you're giving away to fighting low blood sugars and worrying about spikes as like imagine not having to do that anymore. So find 20 hours. Listen to those episodes. I think you can put them in your ears and listen while you're doing anything. Like you don't have to be sitting taking notes. And then yeah, you'll save all that time and your health.

Mike 1:17:41
Yeah, I've turned everybody I can from the top of the mountain. It's like, Look, you gotta listen to this podcast. Listen to this. Listen to this, listen to this. And you know, the ones that do like, hey, thanks, man. It's like because it's, it's a whole nother way of looking at just just think about just the bumping and nudging that I started gently. Just being as you call bold with insulin. I was terrified to insulin. I'm hypoglycemic, right? You know, just just doing that. It's like, Wow, what a huge impact. And nobody told me that before. Yeah, my doctor 20 years never said, hey, let's, you know,

Scott Benner 1:18:16
seems like such common sense to me. Like even when I first set it out loud. I thought, this is a waste of people's time, who would look at a 160 blood sugar and not do anything about it. You like,

Mike 1:18:29
yeah, I'm with 350 because I didn't want to get woken up at night. Yeah, my alarm now is 120

Scott Benner 1:18:35
get woken up in the morning comes to pick you up. My doctor said that was fine. Yeah. If you want to sleep, that's okay to do that. kind of started leaving high so you can sleep? I mean that I think everybody gets those words spoken to them. And, and I say, you know, there's a world where it can stay lower and stable, and you can still sleep. Yes. Just understanding how the insulin works. And if you want to eat keto, and do it, you can. And if you want to have bread and do it, you can you just have to understand how it works. There's different caveats to different diets, but

Mike 1:19:11
and I figured I figured it out prior keto, just by the bumping nudge and I went from 350 to 300 300 to 250. You know, I lowered that line till I got to 180. And I was like, Well, why not go lower? Well,

Scott Benner 1:19:26
I'm gonna let you go in a second. But your progression makes me happy. Because you, you know, from, from my perspective, you prove out the theory. You were you were you're an older diabetics or somebody who got, you know, not great technology, not great insulin moved into different areas within that space of a one. See, that's obviously too high, but people are telling you, don't worry about it. It's okay. You found the podcast, learn how to implement it, it worked for you, you could cut you could keep eating like that if you wanted to, and you'd be able to take good care of yourself. And now you've decided, you know what I'm going to eat keto. But you're still using what you learned in the podcast, you're just using it for the keto diet 100% This is my goal. My goal is I don't care what you eat, you need to understand how insulin works. And then you can eat however you want. I've never once I've never once thought of myself as caring about how people eat. I'm not pushing carbs on you, I'm just saying that I think it's unreasonable to think that everybody is going to be a vegan, or everybody's going to be low carb, and everyone deserves to have low stable blood sugars, that Yeah,

Mike 1:20:32
you need to learn how the insulin works. And that was never really explained in detail. And that's where to go back to the education if, you know, however, you can get it and thank you for putting this out there. And, and I know a lot of people that turn it on to the podcast, it's the same thing. It's like, Wow, man, it but it's learning how to learning how to it works. You're right timing and amount. Yep, whatever it is you're eating, I don't care what you eat, you can eat, you know, candy Carmo corns all day long, if you can figure it out, God more power to you, but know how to do it. And that's what I learned from the podcast.

Scott Benner 1:21:07
Thank you. And I appreciate you saying that. Here it is. Eating healthy, whatever that means. And having stable blood sugars are not the same thing. They don't need to be the same thing. You know, like you can control any carbs you take in with insulin if you do it correctly. I'm not saying it's a great idea. Like I'm not saying the karma corn all day long. But if you're going to just because that's your decision, doesn't mean you don't deserve to have good blood sugars, a nice day one C and a nice long life as long as you can live it. And I don't understand anybody who would argue one diet from another. That's that's a that's a different conversation. Like if you want to make one of those arguments, like you shouldn't eat meat, or you know, you know, whatever, like whatever your argument might be. That's a different argument, then you need to understand your insulin, but somehow they get conflated sometimes. Yeah,

Mike 1:22:06
yeah, they do. And it's just, it's like the people that look at you can't have that cookie. Like, well, why not? So there's two things that type one diabetic cannot eat. First is poison. Yeah. 100%. Second is anything made with poison. So that cookie is not made with poison, dammit, I can eat it.

Scott Benner 1:22:21
But if you don't know how to use your insulin, you eat a cookie, your blood sugar's gonna be 350. Just so you know. And so let's get that straight. And I think we went a long way towards helping people understand what it is to eat keto, these x, these conversations are not to teach people to eat keto, or teach people to be a vegan, it's to have a real conversation with a person with type one who has made that choice. So I appreciate you coming on and sharing this all with us. I really do. Sure happy to do it. Thank you. It's been really nice knowing you to me, not that we're never gonna see each other again, like, but I've enjoyed. I've enjoyed our relationship. So. So I appreciate that as well. Thank you. All right. Hold on one sec. I'll send you those recipes. Oh, yeah, seriously do that. I will put them in the show notes. There'll be right in the show notes with the links to the advertisers that if you click on the podcast gets to keep going, right, Mike?

Mike 1:23:11
Yeah, absolutely. And I did switch g ship because he you.

Scott Benner 1:23:15
Thank you Dexcom, Mike bought a G six because of me. And I did get a new meter. Ah, got the Contour. Next One. The winnaar News. Ah, there we go.

Mike 1:23:26
And that thing is spot on. accurate and I'm going to take up one more minute of your time I don't like. So I've been at type one test monkey for years. And I don't know if you know what a y si machine is. But it's a it's basically the most accurate meter there is and they take these blood draws for whatever they're doing every so often. So that meter compared to the y si the closest in it was the Accu check and that was several years ago at my old meter, right? It was dead on closest from all the meters and I had like five different meters with me. I'm not gonna go into other names, but you want a good one. Get the right one

Scott Benner 1:24:05
Contour. Next One. I knew it right. Hey, let's just say right here, Contour. Next One Contour Next One slash juicebox. That's all you gotta do. Now, I appreciate you saying that. Because seriously, I meant everything I said about wanting to help people. And this podcast went from what I thought was going to be an extension of my blog to a real legitimate full time job. It's this podcast takes up my entire week. And I'm happy to do it. I actually really very much enjoy doing it. You know, but the other side of that is is that you know, I got kids and bills and house and everything else and I can't give away Hey, he's showing me the meter. He really has it. It's a great meter. And you know, I'm not selling anymore. I really mean this as the technology gets better and better and better. You know, CGM. You still need a meter. Yep. So have a good one. Cuz you're going to get one anyway. So, you know, get a good one. That's all I get a great one. Yeah. Good point, Mike. Let's not just get a good meter get a great meter. You guys might hear that in the future ad by the way.

Mike 1:25:12
The other thing that really upsets me is the FDA allows meters plus or minus 20%. So are you 80? Or 120? Right? Are you 50? Or are you whereas, you know, if you have a great meter that you can rely on, you can rely on that number

Scott Benner 1:25:29
to tell you something else while we're being mad about things. If you I mean, how much more difficult can it be to make a great meter than a good meter? Like, if you're gonna make a meter? Why would it not just like, work really well. And by the way, if it doesn't work really well be a mentioned, get out of the game, save yourself, the best meter we could make is the sixth best meter in the world. Maybe we shouldn't make blood glucose meters, we'll make something else. You know, it's such an odd thing. I think that about cars. I think about cars sometimes, too. I'm like, how much effort would have been to just make this piece so it didn't fall off the car?

Mike 1:26:05
You know, you figure they save $2 per one unit over 100,000

Scott Benner 1:26:09
you're making the car already? Why don't you make it nice? Is it really? Yeah, I don't understand that. So anyway, we can talk forever. I've got to go live my life. And I'm assuming that you have to cook for your wife or she'll starve to death. So it's coming up on lunchtime. So yeah, I have to make something for my trophy wife. Well, I'm glad that she's an exceptional woman that you sound like you seem lucky to have. I am every day I wake up and she's still there. Thank you. Sometimes my wife will get up and walk out I'll look at the kids and I go I knew she was gonna leave eventually. Get here from the other room. She's like, I'm just using the bathroom like none of that said she's out of here. I can tell. Okay, Mike, thanks so much, man. I really appreciate it.

Mike 1:26:53
Hey, thank you, Scott. I really appreciate you know

Scott Benner 1:26:55
that's it's my pleasure. Have a good night. Thanks. Hey, huge thanks to Mike for coming on the show. He'll be back again after dark series. Wow, did you hear that Thunder? I'm not editing that out that scared the living crap out of me. Thank you also to the on the pod see if you're eligible for the free 30 day trial the dash and on the pod comm forward slash juice box and dexcom@dexcom.com forward slash juicebox. Get yourself a CGM. Find out what's going on. This could be the end of my life. So if you if you never hear from Oh my god, the dogs are going crazy. That was a lot of thunder. Wow. x comment on the pod paying for a weather report. Hmm, it's raining in New Jersey. This AccuWeather forecast is brought to you by Dexcom and Omni pod. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back soon with another episode of the Juicebox Podcast.

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