#481 Diabetes Veterinarian

May 19, 2021Scott Benner

Kari is a D-Mom and a veterinarian who treats animals living with type 1 diabetes.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Friends, did you ever sit down to do something having an idea that it would be a certain way? And then when it was over, it was way different than you expected? If that has happened to you, then you know what I felt like when I got done recording this episode.

Hello, everyone, and welcome to Episode 481 of the Juicebox Podcast. If I seem like I'm not as enthusiastic as I usually am, I'm doing something a little differently this week. I'm getting ready to go away with my son for a few days. So I'm editing a ton of episodes and getting them ready to like they're going to go up automatically because I won't be here. And I'm having trouble like, you know, bring in the Zoom Zoom for every one of these intros and outros, so I'm not a I'm okay. Anyway, this episode is really cool. It's Carrie, she's the mom of a type one. She's a veterinarian. She's the person who handles all the type one animals in her practice. And somewhere in this episode, she told me something that I didn't expect to hear. And it made it really a full conversation much more than I expected. I really appreciate it. Please remember, while you're listening that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. We're becoming bold with insulin.

This show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries g vo hypo pen, Find out more at G Vogue glucagon.com forward slash juicebox. The episode is also sponsored by the Contour Next One blood glucose meter. It is in fact, the most accurate, easy to use, easy to carry easy to read blood glucose meter that I have ever personally held used. We're talking about. I am not kidding. Contour Next one.com forward slash juice box. And I'll tell you this, too. It's a really great website. It's not, you know, when you get on a website and like who made this, like did the person who made this website? Have they ever been on the internet you ever had that feeling you will not have that feeling at Contour Next One forward slash juice box. I'm holding up my hand like they do in court. Because I am telling the truth of the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

Kari 2:47
I am Kari I'm a veterinarian, and just general practitioner and I see a lot of cases and I tend to get a lot of our diabetics, because obviously we all know it's a pretty complex disease on the human side and equally complex but a bit different on the animal side. So a lot of the other doctors I work with are sometimes intimidated or or frustrated with the cases. So I I see a lot of them.

Scott Benner 3:19
What's your connection personally to type two diabetes?

Kari 3:23
My daughter is 14 and she was diagnosed at age seven with type one.

Scott Benner 3:28
Okay. So we're not gonna say your daughter's name. Is that right? Yep. Correct. Your daughter. That's how I'll handle it. Okay, how old was your daughter when she was not how old Excuse me, but what was the care like when she was diagnosed seven years ago. Seems like you might have been pump CGM time.

Kari 3:47
Yeah. So when she was diagnosed, it was 2014. And we got the Dexcom. couple months in and it was not in the cloud. And then somewhere along the way, in our first four, six months, we got the super expensive little base station so that when she was sleeping, it would the data would get sent to me my phone, whatnot. That was super exciting. And then seemed like shortly after that. It all just ramped up into total lead app and the receiver and the cloud and all that. And so then she went on a pump probably like six months after diagnosis. Gotcha. We started with animus and move to Medtronic and now t slim and chill like we've experienced a lot of the technology

Scott Benner 4:38
on the pumps. One thing I think either your hair or jewelry might be brushing the phone.

Unknown Speaker 4:44
Okay, I know that

Scott Benner 4:45
sounds crazy, but and I have a Dexcom cradle right in front of me. Do you all the old stuff that I've tossed that you know becomes, you know, unnecessary as the years go by? I can't seem to get rid of this one thing. Yeah. Because it, it worked out so oddly, that I mean Dexcom clearly produced these cradles because they thought it was going to take longer than it did. Yeah. To get that next device approved.

Kari 5:12
Yeah, I feel like it. I remember being pricey. Like, I don't know, 100 200 300 I don't know. And then within months, it was useless because things were better. But I mean, it was it was worth it while I had it. I guess.

Scott Benner 5:27
I imagined them all over desks at Dexcom with business cards in them. So that's how I say it in my head. But yeah, I mean, for people who don't go back that far. It was absolutely insane. Right, this little thing came out, and you would take your Dexcom receiver, slide it into it, and somehow then attach it to the cloud and somebody could follow you. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Such a big deal. Just Yeah, big deal. And he could only use it really at night, right. Like it was kind of by them. Yes, I'd feeling.

Kari 5:57
Yeah. It was too complicated to like, get it to school. And we had our teachers trains to monitor and yeah, so it's just by our bed, but it was such a great thing to be able to just sleep and wait for the alarms. Yeah.

Scott Benner 6:13
Do you wonder now most people probably don't even know there's a receiver. They just use their phone? I would imagine. Yeah, that's fascinating. It really is. And then the the part that of course, was both kind of frustrating if you paid for it. And otherwise, is that that the new receiver that kind of had the chip built into it that could go to the cloud? it Oh, my god, it couldn't have been three months maybe. And it was available.

Kari 6:36
Yeah, that's what I remember. It was super quick. Well, that was a big investment for a couple months.

Scott Benner 6:43
But I can't believe I totally remember that. In that time. I guess I want to know a little bit about your, you know, your ideas around management. Like I mean, sevens pretty young. I imagine you were pretty involved with your daughter.

Kari 6:55
Yeah, for sure. Um, and because I am medical. I mean, I just jumped right in, I totally understood it. And she was so young. And it was first day of summer break. So I ended up spending a lot of days that summer going on her little field trips, the summer camp field trips, and I just hardly let her out of my sight. The the manager or whatnot. At the daycare she was with learned diabetes, no one there had ever had it in their recollection in recent years. So she took it on and helped me out quite a bit but any field trip dosing for carbs, you know, this and that. I was always there. So, and then we were fortunate enough when she entered second grade, we had the most amazing teacher ever, of all my kids years at school and she like took it on like a second mother and she was amazing. So so it went pretty well. All things considered. As much as pretty well could be.

Unknown Speaker 8:02
Yeah,

Scott Benner 8:03
back then something like this. What did you take to it pretty well? Where did you find Yeah, wishing she had kennel cough because that you understand?

Kari 8:11
Um, yeah, I mean it. It was different. I mean, it's managed very differently and animals and humans so but I understood all the science behind it so easily and but yeah, it's it's it's way different. I feel like we manage animals, like we did. 20 years ago. I remember. I remember a type one diabetic. Kind of a friend of a friend back when I was in college, and like they were doing, you know, twice a day shots and carrying a cooler. I remember going to Cedar Point they had the big lunch cooler. And you know, the glucometer and no, no remote Ma, you know, no CGM. And he had multiple seizures. And I just felt like, was so poorly managed 20 years ago compared to humans today. And unfortunately, that's kind of where we are with the animals not because we're behind the curve, but because it's just not super realistic to do all the intense carb counting and CGM and all that and all the animals. You just

Scott Benner 9:15
made me You just really made me focus on the idea that back then with like, regular and mph and those those kinds of things, that that that probably, I wonder, like, if you spoke to a doctor behind the scenes back then if they were just thinking, how will this person's pancreas stop working? So we're just going to do our best to keep them alive for as long as we can until stuff starts going wrong? Because that's Yeah, that's the vibe of the dogs. Right. And the animals Yeah.

Kari 9:42
Yeah, pretty much. I mean, we. Yeah, I mean, we do the best we can twice a day dosing and we have started playing it Some of us have started playing around with the freestyle lever or whatnot. And I've only had one Clients religiously try it, like, begging clients to try. But yeah, I mean, we just for lack of better terms, if somewhat winging it, I don't have owners do blood sugar's at home very often because they get too worked up on, you know, a blood sugar of 300 they all of a sudden want to increase insulin. But, you know, we don't we have a much wider curve. Yeah, on our dogs and cats, then some well controlled humans, not necessarily my dad or these things with hormones, but you know, they can fluctuate 100 to 300, and be pretty acceptable, we hardly blink an eye if the average is okay, so we don't micromanage it as much. So yeah, we just kind of do the best we can and educate the owners, but obviously, it's very overwhelming for many of them. And we try to dumb it down almost to to, you know, reduce their stress, and yet still do the best we can for the animal.

Scott Benner 11:04
So carry that sum. It sounds it sounds sad, I guess is the word I want. Like, like, the understanding that there's this thing that I guess that really is medicine, in general, though, right? isn't like we're getting better and better at it as time moves forward. But a lot of it is maintenance. Like just Yes. And when you mean maintenance, you mean maintenance, trying to stave off something, whether it be right a problem or the end, or whatever it is, you're just trying to slow the progression to this thing. Yes. And you can you tell owners of pets that or is that not something you've kind of freely share?

Kari 11:40
Um, I mean, I'm always very optimistic that, you know, we can give them a relatively normal life that the hard part, the hardest part probably is some of these dogs are just picky eaters. And to to have an owner at home kind of treating blindly without regular blood sugar, checks, blood glucose checks, you know, and all sudden, the dog doesn't eat breakfast, what do they do, and, you know, to try to give partial doses and to educate them on all that. So I try to just encourage them that, you know, we're going to do our best to give them a pretty happy healthy life. And one of the biggest fears is the needles and even the most scared clients realize the needles, no big deal. And, you know, I try not to overload them with all the heavy, potential negative stuff. But um, you know, main, a large portion of the dogs develop cataracts. So I do tell them that right off the bat dogs more than cats, and you know, I tell them, they're going to be frequent visits back to see me and it's, it's not cheap, paying, you know, full price for insulin and blood tests, you know, without, most of them don't have insurance. And so I kind of prep on that. A little bit of expensive disease, but you can do it and they're gonna feel great. And, you know, there may be complications down the road, there may be certain lifespan, but we'll deal with each one as it comes. And I try to keep things as light as I can. But still, you know, this is something to be taken seriously. And we can do this together. We're Team call me any time

Scott Benner 13:27
trying to make them feel a part of like the process of doing a good job. Yeah. How do you get a cat or dog to drink a juice box? While you're talking?

Kari 13:41
Yeah, so our go to is like Kira syrup or maple syrup on the gums. You know that, that sort of thing and, and call us if they're not coming around in 510 minutes.

Scott Benner 13:54
It's fun. It's funny how the problems are mimicking both sides, like I have two dogs. And one of them one of them's older. And there are some mornings, you know, like the process, you know, the morning goes exactly the way it goes every time and he comes back in from out back. And he's like, oh, man put the food down. And he comes over and eats the food. And some days he looks at it. It's not now and then he goes over and lays back down, which he never did when he was younger. And I'm trying to imagine I'm trying to imagine talking a dog into eating I guess. Yeah, I'm trying to wrap my head around. And it's making me think back to when my daughter was young as well. So

Kari 14:32
it's hard when there are picky eaters and you know, a lot of these dogs, like schnauzers are notoriously type ones and are you know, diabetics, dogs are more often type one and cats marfin type two, interestingly enough, but you know, these little dogs are not always big eaters, labs are prone to it. Also, and that usually goes well because they eat anything you give them. But yeah, some of these little ones. One of my most intensive cases is a little Chihuahua, and Elvis. He's an old man. And he's had cataract surgery and all kinds of stuff. She's the one actually who tried the the CGM, the lever. And he Yeah, so she's mastered it because she is all in as most of us are parents to type one. So we're all in and we're micromanaging. She, she lives her life to manage this dog diabetes, I swear. So what's my point? Oh, he's not, he's not the best eater. So she's, you know, always trying to finagle what he eats. And she's well aware of all the complexities of carb counts that I don't overwhelm my most of my clients with. So she knows like, what's high carbs, low carbs, and how that affects his insulin needs. And but yeah, when they're not good eaters, it's hard. So it's, it's a battle for them for sure.

Scott Benner 15:55
So I'm sorry, you, you've got me off, you've got me off kilter a little bit, because I literally am just picturing someone on their knees with a handful of kibble going, just have five of them, just please eat fine. I gave you your insulin already. How long does it take the dogs and cats to get used to getting a needle?

Kari 16:13
Honestly, they don't know what to set. Okay, they do great. So I have the owners, if possible, I have them feed twice a day dose twice a day. And I tell them, it, every vet does it differently. And I've tried to cope. My clinic that's to kind of do it similar to me, because there's such differences I've seen, I've seen some that say I'll do some An hour later. And you know, I use the food as a distraction. Once it looks like they're eating most of their food just give the full dose and most donors are shocked that the dogs never, and cats to never even act like they feel it. So they do really well. And it's done a little differently. We don't use the pen needles, we actually tent the skin and kind of angle it 45 degrees with a more traditional insulin syringe. Although I had one Schnauzer that was vicious to the owner, and they literally had to kind of just Dart the dog as it walked by his name was lucky enough, you should never name your animals lucky because it never works. It's always opposite. But um, so

Scott Benner 17:30
I know won't get back to this in a second. But it puts you in the position of attending to a dog who's passing away and having to turn to somebody who loves it and goes and sell them. Yeah, Lucky's gonna die.

Kari 17:41
Yeah. lackeys are there now never lucky. They're they hit by cars. They're the bad diseases. But yeah, this dog is the only patient and 20 years of practice that I've ever had us live little pen needles, and like literally just start them as he walks by. And it works. She kept them alive for quite a while. But yeah, they don't notice the needles. Honestly, they do so well. You know, the owners are more freaked out, but we demo it.

Scott Benner 18:13
They can kind of see it's not a big deal.

Kari 18:15
Yeah, we have them give them some sealing as a practice once, twice, three times whatever they're comfortable with. And they go off on their own. And almost every single owner is shocked how easy it ends up to actually inject to them and the pet

Scott Benner 18:30
that you said that you when you brought up type two, it made me think so in the I mean, how many years Do I have to go back into veterinary medicine before no one would ever consider giving a pet insulin?

Kari 18:44
Yeah, good question. I mean, my whole 20 years we've all been on board, okay. I don't know. I still have clients that occasionally request euthanasia when they're diagnosed. And it just breaks my heart because it's close to home and I just I've done I've probably given in and done to maybe in recent years but I do everything I can to talk them out of it and yeah, I don't know at what point you know it progressed through to little more effective treatment and the animals I would assume it's been quite a while I mean if this insulin spin out

Scott Benner 19:26
do you imagine that and I'm This is me guessing so if I'm wrong you stopped me but do you imagine that people who are able to seek frequent and regular care through a veterinarian for a dog Are you know better financial place than other people and does that not make us believe that people who can afford it still have pets?

Kari 19:45
Um, so yes and no funny enough. We My practice is like the edge of a big city and so we we pull in clients from the wealthy suburbs. Inner City I have learned through the years you cannot judge where they live, what car they drive for anything. We have, you know, clients with the fancy cars. I mean, no offense to anyone listening. But they're just absolutely appalled that I asked them to buy $110 lantis pen, we use the pens in cats as a vial, basically. So they don't have to buy a $380 vial of Lantus to use two units twice a day, we we buy packages of the pens and break them up and sell them for 110. And, I mean, people are just absolutely upset either with us or with, you know, insulin, crazy pharmaceuticals in general. And then we have, you know, people driving beaters and just not looking as well to do and that they don't blink an eye and they'll do it. So I've learned long ago like not to prejudge anyone, you lay it out there and let them know. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 21:04
yeah.

Scott Benner 21:04
So do you people ever, like how harsh does it get? Like you said, they'll they like, has anyone ever said to you, you want me to spend $110 on something that cost me 20 bucks. Like is Does that ever get that harsh? Or do they not say that to you?

Kari 21:17
Um, so what do you mean? So what do you mean? 110? That cost me 20 bucks. So like, yeah, like,

Scott Benner 21:24
some people don't know that. I think there's some people that don't see a cat. I think they see it as a belonging sometimes and not a Does that make sense? And now Yeah, suddenly, like here, let's spend a lot of money to Medicaid, something that you paid $20 for at some point like that.

Kari 21:38
Oh, I see what you Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Um, and again, that goes across the whole range, like, wonderful parents, you know, the shoe, the kids are there, and they're like, we're not doing this. Well go get them another cat next month, or, you know, whatever. And vice versa. You know, it's, uh, yeah, I mean, people just range I've had so many people say, Oh, I grew up on the farm, or, you know, we never treated our cats and dogs, they live to be teen. And, you know, you don't need to do this. And, you know, again, just recommend what's medically best, but then your medicine has evolved to be more intensive and more high quality. It's, we're actually built building a new building right now. And we have someone trying to sell us on a CT scanner, because that's the norm for dentistry, it's better. We thought we were doing great because we had dental x rays, but now the norm is to CT that the jaw, and it's just things are evolving so much, you know, just better care better technology. And, as a result, often higher bills and people do it, they love these pets, and you know, most of them will do whatever it takes, they may complain. But we, we My practice is always pretty good at kind of giving them options. You know, diabetes probably isn't a good example. Because there's not a lot of options you treated or you don't but you know, if you dogs vomiting, and it's prone to foreign bodies, but you're pretty sure didn't get into the sax. today. You know, if you want to just treat for virus and wait for an X ray, that's your choice. Or you can spend, you know, 180 bucks for x rays and see if there's a sock and its stomach. So we kind of give plan a plan B and so many people go with the full workup and I mean, they they want to take care of their pets. It's lovely.

Scott Benner 23:41
Really, I'm trying to decide what the number is for me not to take care of my kid. Like I'm like, What number would someone at this Happy Friday when I don't like them? Yeah. I'm sure there isn't one but it's a very, it's what I'm thinking too is that you don't get into veterinary medicine. Like by mistake, right? Like you weren't like trying to decide whether or not to be an accountant or a veterinarian. This was a calling for you. I would imagine.

This isn't much of a cliffhanger. I mean, Kerry's going to say that veterinary medicine was a calling. I mean imagine if she didn't imagine if she was just like, now I hate animals. That is not what happens. But anyway, that's neither here nor there. You'll find out all about that in a second. For now, I need you to know this. g vo hypo pen has no visible needle, and it's the first pre mixed autoinjector of glucagon for very low blood sugar and adults and kids with diabetes ages two and above. Not only is chivo hypo pen simple to administer, but it's simple to learn more about. All you have to do is go to G Vogue glucagon.com Ford slash juicebox g Vogue shouldn't be used in patients with insulin, Noma or pheochromocytoma, visit je Vogue glucagon.com slash risk. I wish you all could have been here the day I learned to say pheochromocytoma, it was hilarious. Anyway, I need you to go to Contour Next one.com forward slash juicebox. Why are you going to do that? Well, it's easy. When you get there, you're gonna find a blood glucose meter that is accurate. Understand, it's easy to use, easy to hold easy to read has a nice bright light for nighttime viewing. And it has Second Chance test strips. Second Chance is exactly what it sounds like. You take a chance dip in the blood. Right? What other add in the world do you hear dip in the blood as part of the words you have put the test strip in the blood and say you don't get enough. Oh, that was your first chance. Now you get a second chance to go back and try it again. without interfering with the quality of the test. And you don't ruin a strip. Not bad, huh? Plus the things easy to use. I love it. I mean, as much as you can love a blood glucose meter. I love this one. That's an accurate, that's an accurate and honest statement for me. I mean, you know, like if you said to me, Scott, what do you love more sunny days are blood glucose meters I've been I kind of like glucose meters good I can do with or without the sun. But I mean, if it got down to my family, and you're like Scott, here's your wife and a blood glucose meter. I'm gonna go with Kelly. That's not the point. The point is, I love this meter. And you may too. You may also love a lot of the things going on at Contour Next One comm forward slash juice boxes. So head over and find out they have a test trip savings program. A lot is going on. It's a really I mentioned at the beginning of the episode. I don't mean to jump around in the middle of the ad, I'm sure right now that people are contour like, could you stay on topic, buddy, we're paying you here. But I am. It's a great website gets really well laid out. It's easy to find. And there's a ton of information on it. It's not overwhelming or confusing. It's worth your time. Contour. Next One comm forward slash juice box. You know, I got a bit of time left here in the music. So let me just say this. Find me on Instagram, find me on Facebook on bold with insulin on Facebook. I'm Juicebox Podcast on Instagram, and the private Facebook group where there are now 811 1000 users, a lot of them active every day. It's a jump in Facebook group full of cool people talking about type one diabetes, it's called Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes. That's it, you go there and you chat with other people just like you other listeners. 100% free nothing to do just, you know, ask answer a couple of questions. Make sure you're not a robot, or somebody trying to sell t shirts or other scams, that seems to be a big thing in the diabetes community. People come in and they go, Oh, ah, I have diabetes. And look at my brand new t shirt. Isn't it amazing? And they just take a picture. I'm gonna keep talking here for a second because this really pisses me off. So I'm just gonna take a second to share it with you. And I mean, pisses me off is harsh. It pisses me off. It's just it's a well done spam. Do you mean? So somebody takes a picture of themselves. And they're like, I have diabetes. And I know how hard it is. And it is hard. And my shirt says that I'm tough or whatever I want to call it, the shirt says, and then they don't. They don't like pimp it. They don't put a link up, right? They're not like me. They're not like Juicebox Podcast like they, they don't do anything. They wait for someone to say, Oh, I love your shirt. Where did you get it? And then they're like, oh, let me just give you this link, which goes to their store. These people don't have diabetes, they're preying on you, they're trying to sell you diabetes t shirts. Now, if people want to sell you a diabetes t shirt, they should just tell you, I'm selling your diabetes t shirt or I'm selling you another t shirt. That's fine with me. I'm all about capitalism. I'm good with that. But don't try to trick people. I'll try to make it look like it's one thing when it's not. I don't like that. So anyway, I try to keep those people out. And I do a pretty good job of it. So don't be afraid to check out the Facebook page. Well, this was long winded wasn't it? Let's get back to carry. This was a calling for you. I would imagine.

Kari 29:11
Yeah, I wanted to be a vet my whole life and you know of course growing up all your friends do too We all did at one point right? Probably. But they drifted away to other things and I was a senior in high school or junior whenever applying to undergrad and like I've never thought about anything else maybe I should. So I looked into of all things architecture, and special ed and I thought well those are cool careers but now I won't be event so and then went on from there and some people because that school is kind of hard to get in. Depending on the school the average is one out of 10 applicants. So some people after not getting in move on to like the human side because I don't know if it's good or bad that it's easier to get into med school but I Couldn't do humans humans are kind of gross medically and and luckily I got in so I didn't have to think about what else to do or how many times would I apply, I get on first try by some miracle. And here we go. If

Scott Benner 30:16
I have to say that the first time I saw a veterinarian, express my dog's anal glands, I thought she really likes this is her calling? There's no way she's just doing this for money.

Unknown Speaker 30:30
You know, like, yeah,

Kari 30:32
there's some gross parts, definitely, we're pretty well staffed. So we've delegated out to your skill level and what you're trained at, so my unfortunate technicians get to do most of the ina glands. Unless they're busy, and I don't want to wait, then I'll do it. But no, yeah, no,

Scott Benner 30:50
I was asking. Because, I mean, I would think that a person who I'm guessing loves animals as much as you who went into a profession to keep them healthy, that when someone says to you, Hey, I don't want to give this thing insulin, let's just let it die, or can you put it to sleep? I don't imagine that you see much of a difference between that. And and if I were to come up to you and tell you, you know, we're not going to bother with your daughter. She's a lot of work. Like, I don't think you Yes, I would I am I right about that?

Kari 31:20
Yes, yeah, I agree. Um, and, you know, my, my partner's my associates, they, I think they accept that request easier than me, and the only one with a type one family member. But because it is pricey, and it's high stress, and it's high maintenance, and, you know, so when an owner is just not willing, you know, I find my we are all in it to help animals, but we also have a lot of really emotional hard things every day. So, of people who don't want to treat something, or people who, you know, think it's a charity, and their dog was hit by car, and they need free surgery. You know, it's a very emotionally draining career. It's not all petting cute dogs and cats and saving their lives every day. There's a lot of human emotion and ranges of quality of care and willingness to be compliant. And you know, a lot of difficult stuff like guilt trips, or blame or this or that. So anyway, I find the other doctors you know, if they diagnose a diabetic and the owner is just not willing, they sadly agree versus I put my foot down and like, absolutely not, am I euthanizing your dog? I can't, I cannot, I cannot, we are going to treat it. We're going to find a way.

Scott Benner 32:50
I did not want this turn into a therapy session for you. But the whole time, this is where I've been heading. So just say, okay, because I really felt like how is it possible that she could? Like, I didn't think you could disconnect that feeling from your personal life? And like, you don't I mean, like I couldn't I just don't know how, if I'm, I mean, I, I've been a pet owner most of my life. And I can't, and I can't fathom how somebody would just be like, Oh, it's sick. I forget it. Like, I don't understand that. But I'm also not, um, I don't know how to put this like, I'm not a crazy pet owner. Do you know what I mean? Like, again? Yeah. Like, I think there's a line, like you're saying, like, I kind of believe if my dog got hit by a car, and I brought him in, and he looked really bad. And you said, this is gonna cost $10,000 he's probably gonna die. I might be like, Oh, you know, me, like, that probably would hit me. But that would be because I feel like that would be because of the money. If I couldn't afford it, I think it's just a weird thing to look inside yourself to try to decide, you know,

Kari 33:53
yeah, yeah. It's hard. I mean, it's a daily battle. And it's hard. The owners, it's hard on owners to like you said you would love your dog. Can you do 10 grand, and there's a guarded prognosis. And, I mean, it's hard on them. And most of them are very understanding of the situation we're put in, and we come to a decision together, but there's, there's a lot of tough points where, you know, they they don't agree with, you know, our estimate, or they feel that this is an animal and we're, like, we're in it to help animals, we're obligated to do whatever it takes, and why are we trying to make a fortune and, you know, it also there's, there's hard stuff and there's owners, you know, that just don't understand why it's such a big deal that their dog has a, you know, a tumor that's probably malignant, the sooner we get it off, the more chance that we can prevent fatal outcomes. And now they're just going to watch it and you know, so we have to go with that. That's their choice, and we have to go home at night and let it go. And it's It's a hard, it's hard things sometimes. But I, I've learned through the years and this may sound cold, but I love these animals. I love the science, but I have emotionally distanced myself a little bit from the bond that these animals have with their owners and the owners lives. And I, I try, I try to be very thorough, very friendly, very helpful. But I try not to get too connected or too bonded to some of these pets. And there's always those ones that sneak through and I when they die, or when they're sick, I cry like, it's my own child that, but I think that's what's hard. In our profession. We actually have a very high suicide rate, we're ranked the highest in all professions, apparently. And it's like three times what an average american is. And yeah, it's it's a very emotionally difficult career because of all that stuff. So again, it may sound cold, but I kind of, I still absolutely love my job. And I find it's because I enjoy the animals, I enjoy the science, but I I try not to get too attached to each individual patient because I just, you can't handle it, you can't keep your chin up and deal with all these tough decisions and financial limitations. And, you know, it's just it's tough. So I, I do the best I can, but again, certain patients get through and certain causes like diabetes gets through, and I am absolutely attached to every diabetic patient I have and

Scott Benner 36:38
are you the diabetes doctor? Like is it is it that simple? Like you just hear from other rooms I carry? This one's yours?

Kari 36:43
Yeah, yeah, pretty much. Yeah. Yeah, because it's an ergonomic endocrinology is super tough. I mean, it was my hardest class and med school. And it's it's complex, all the hormones interact with each other and everything else in between. and, you know, as general practitioners, we treat everything and we treat minimum of two species, cats and dogs in, you know, small animal practice. I do some exotics, too, but so, you know, you have to know, everything possible about the heart and the kidneys and all the endocrinology and musculoskeletal and we do surgery and neurology and so yeah, these doctors who aren't living type one like I do with my daughter. Yeah, are like, okay, I just died. I died. The dose is this and oops, I don't understand why his blood sugar's not well controlled. Carry. Oh,

Unknown Speaker 37:43
I'm starting to wonder if everybody's endo doesn't feel that way. If

Unknown Speaker 37:48
that's true. I wish I

Scott Benner 37:49
could call someone else to come in here and help you. Yeah. Are there any odd animals that get diabetes? Like, I assume, not frequently, but what's the

Kari 37:59
I've diagnosed a couple of guinea pigs. And other than that, I don't know. I mean, I'm assuming every animal can, but we mainly just do cats and dogs. And, you know, back in vet school, we had to learn six species. The exotics, were kind of separate from that. But you know, cows and goats and horses and sheep and cows, goats or sheep. Yeah, cats, dogs. So those are the six. And I remember some endocrinology from the rest of them, but not a lot. To be honest with

Scott Benner 38:35
you, and I'm embarrassed I can't believe I'm going to admit this. People shouldn't don't get a podcast because if you don't tell people the truth, they won't listen. You said guinea pig and I thought, well, there's there's my line. I found it. Okay.

Unknown Speaker 38:51
Goodbye hundreds of dollars worth of insulin for a guinea pig. It's I think you may have found my line. I'm really not just embarrassed and ashamed. And yet I'm saying it so

Kari 39:00
No, it's fine. Yeah, and that's that's the thing because I do see exotics. I have a lot. A lot more clients probably that I'm, what am I saying? I mean, the ones that will bring a guinea pig in with a urinary issue and we're actually pay surgery to remove a Bladder Stone. It's shocking. But think about how many households have hamsters and gerbils and guinea pigs and rabbits and you don't see 99% of those. I mean, they all stay home and when they're sick, they the poor little kid holds them and cries and they die. But you know, the ones that come in those owners will do anything.

Scott Benner 39:43
You think, Mike because I'm so sorry. I cut you off.

Kari 39:47
Yeah, no, you're fine because they do make the effort to come and vet to begin with versus most owners do not and that's understandable. I mean, that's part of our job. I'm not going to make someone feel bad because they don't Yeah. supposed to do something? And also diabetes, then

Scott Benner 40:03
you will? Absolutely. So if any of you out there have a diabetic hamster or gerbil and you're not getting it treated, this person is not gonna let you off the hook, just saying. Where did you feel this way prior to your daughter's diagnosis? How was it different prior to that?

Kari 40:19
Um, as far as like binary medicine and the overall No,

Scott Benner 40:22
I look, you did that? Yeah, with the diabetes specifically in animals like, like, 10 years ago, if somebody's dog had type one in there, like, I don't want to do this, where you just like, Yeah, right. Or, like, you

Kari 40:32
know, cuz I've always been, so I have this theory that, that's get into many medicine for one of three reasons. And I think we all start off with a high compassion for animals. But almost equally common is the interest in science and, and the third is money. But believe it or not, we are a very low paid profession compared to other doctorate degrees. And that goes all the way through our entire staff, technicians, everyone, I mean, when I graduated, I got off track, but when I graduated med school, the average starting salary was 45, grand. And Ohio State there was for doctorate programs. And the next highest, I think, was dentistry, or whatever it was, it was 90. So that gives you example, it's a very low paid profession. So a lot of people feel we get into it for the money, but we don't make awesome money compared to human MDS and whatnot. So anyway, back to my, my philosophy on this, a lot of us are in it for the science too. So I definitely feel like you know, I'm equally compassion for these animals in science. So I always loved like, the internal medicine stuff, I actually had myself all set up to kind of become a specialist, I was hoping for internal medicine, there's two tracks to be a specialist of enter medicine, you can do the residencies, you know, and work at the vet schools or the you know, the referral hospitals or you can kind of do an in clinic, you almost self study for boards, and you have to have a couple mentors that are specialists, you have to present case studies and stuff like that. So I always loved all the science and I was definitely not an expert on diabetes, but I enjoyed all that stuff a lot. So I had my timeline, I had my mentors and one of my two case studies to apply all that stuff set up. And I love school I miss school I miss learning I was super excited. Had my books ordered.

Scott Benner 42:33
You are exactly like my wife by the way. Like this. Yeah, my wife has a is a biology major. And she she very much was was on the way to go into medical school when some things in our life kind of throw her sideways. But she talks about science and and the medicine that she also thinks people are achy, I don't think she ever would have been a doctor who would have practiced.

Kari 42:56
Yeah, just can't do it. Yeah, but I was all set. And then my daughter was diagnosed and it just took the wind out of my sails. So I still claim to be kind of the narrative the group I kind of have a very informal title of medical director I love I love implementing new things and learning new things. I'm the one who reads every magazine that comes through I'm the one who actually enjoys going to see continuing education. So I love all that stuff. But I don't think I I don't predict I'll ever have the energy to go through the program.

Scott Benner 43:32
If I said to you, money wasn't a necessity. And you could do whatever you want right now. You'd go back to school.

Unknown Speaker 43:38
Oh, absolutely. Yeah, I

Unknown Speaker 43:39
know your type. Okay.

Kari 43:42
But I don't want another profession. So I would just have to be a specialist. Yeah, I don't I don't have any other desire to do anything different. Maybe like business school because it is there's so much better medicine that's business oriented, that we just don't learn. They're implementing more business classes probably a very small amount but in that programs these days but there was zero when I was there so that would be maybe interesting but more so would just be to specialize and learn more stuff. Yeah,

Scott Benner 44:17
I know. Trust me, I know your world. I know at least this part of you if that's for certain I'm can we shift gears for a second to something you said back in the first couple of minutes? talked about I think you were alluding to things have been tougher management wise for your daughter since hormones is that seem like where you're headed? Um, what are you seeing is it just generally blood sugars that are just generally higher than normal? Worse spikes?

Unknown Speaker 44:48
Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 44:49
yeah, we

Unknown Speaker 44:50
already have it.

Kari 44:51
Yeah, all the above, higher blood sugars, irregularities, and honestly, I would say the biggest problem is Just she's 14, and she doesn't want to be bothered. And she's not total, like Debbie Downer about diabetes, she actually more days than not and that's that she kind of enjoys it. She has like, tons of awesome friends. She loves camp. You know, she's proud of her hard work on it. She loves the tight relationship she and I have we're a team, you know, so. But could I bother her to like Pre-Bolus for a meal at the end of the world? Or you know, if I'm not there to Nagar, you know, she's at a friend's house or at her dad's house or whatever. All of a sudden, she's 350. I text her Did you eat Did you Bolus? No, I forgot. So I think it's mine. It's hormones and just what that does to all the, again, endocrinology is complex, everything works together. So how it's affecting everything, but also just the teenage boy has a attitude of whenever I'll be fine, mom. Yeah, my a Wednesday is 8.2. But it doesn't matter. It's fine. And you're

Scott Benner 46:11
like, no, it's not

Unknown Speaker 46:15
killing yourself.

Scott Benner 46:16
I got a Schnauzer named Butch living better than you over here. This is not okay.

Unknown Speaker 46:20
Yeah.

Scott Benner 46:21
Do you take a onesies from pets? How do you know you're doing okay? Just because it's alive?

Kari 46:30
So, uh, yeah, we I mean, we just we question and monitor. So the best test we do is for Tosa mean, for dogs and cats checks. Like I tell owners, it's a lot like a one C, because so many owners are familiar with that. You know, it just gives us the two to three week average, basically. You know, and I question them? Do they drink a lot? Or they pee a lot? Are they maintaining their way? You know, just stuff like that. And if they're happy and perky and fructose means acceptable. We check it off as a win.

Unknown Speaker 47:03
How do you?

Scott Benner 47:06
Do their lives get shortened? Like, is there any way to know if they're if they're losing a little off the end? or?

Kari 47:13
Yeah, I mean, statistically they kind of do. Yeah, I'm just because I don't think we can regulate them as well as hopefully most of us are on the human side. Unless you have a 14 year old stubborn girl. Um, yeah, I think their lifespans are shortened I would say so. Just it, it takes its toll on the body for sure.

Scott Benner 47:38
Can you kennel a dog that has like, like, I'm trying to imagine like, how do I go on vacation, if my dog has diabetes, it will look like handled give injections, some of them maybe

Kari 47:49
typical kennels walls. So in our area we have we have a couple like pet sitting services that have registered Tech's on staff and they can do you know, home visits. We do medical morning, we don't do regular morning, but any of our clients that have intense cases like seizure dogs, or or diabetics, will, will do medical boarding and manage them there. But then that implements a whole other problem of the eating. You know, a lot of the dogs and cats don't want to eat well, when they're there. Their stress is changing their numbers and, you know, so it's it's hard for

Scott Benner 48:24
exactly the same for a dog or a cat as it is for a person.

Kari 48:28
Yeah, so it's hard on the owners. There's some others that have like, an amazing neighbor who can give shots or you know, whatever. You know, there's there's creative ways to go about it. But it's hard. It ties them down for sure. And then you want them to be pretty close to 12 hours apart. Which how many of us are home exactly? 12 hours apart every day of our lives? Yeah.

Scott Benner 48:48
Yeah, right. Hey, can dogs do inhalers?

Kari 48:54
No, I'm, well, we have I have not heard of any inhaled insulin going for dogs yet. We do inhalers or asthma on cats. So I've never actually thought of that. I wonder if it'll evolve to be a cat treatment or even a dog treatment. But yeah, as of right now I have. This is the first I've ever thought of that or heard of it. No, I just

Scott Benner 49:21
sit here thinking if somebody can make it happen, it might be you. And I physically understand if like a animal could do an inhaler. Like because, like, yeah, the idea of an inhaler is you know, to push the button and then breathe.

Kari 49:33
Yeah. So we have those. Those chambers for us are called Aero cats. And I can't I don't know what they're called on the human side. But I know like my son had one for his. He had like temporary asthma when he was younger. And that those little tubular chambers with that little rubber mask at the end. So yeah, so when we use like Flo vent or something for asthma for cats. Dogs don't tend to get asthma. So I have Never use some hidden dog but cats. Yeah, we we just kind of hold that little mask up to shake it up and we'll push the plunger or let them take four or five breaths and they're done. So yeah, I don't know, let me know. You hear me?

Scott Benner 50:15
Yeah, let me put this right here just in case if anybody out there ever finds themselves giving their cat or dog a frezza, I did it. Okay, I made it happen. Because this might be years from now, it might take a while for my idea to get through the through the mainstream. But I'm taking I'm taking credit for this right now, March 31 2021.

Kari 50:35
Some interesting idea, now we're gonna have to look into it. I swear,

Scott Benner 50:39
if this ends up happening, I would like a procedure named after me, you. You and I get together and decide on the name later. So what do you I know this is going all over the place, but I'm having a good time. By the way. Thank you for being chatty. I think I could have started this off and gone. Hey, everyone, this is Carrie. She's a vet, her kids got diabetes. And then I could have maybe left the room and come back because she we're good at this. Thank you, please. So now I'm gleaning from our conversation that you have like, you know, your your daughter, your kids go back and forth between two households. Are they with you more than they are in the other place? Or vice versa?

Kari 51:15
Yeah, they're with me maybe like three fourths? Two thirds, three fourths? Yeah.

Scott Benner 51:20
So that presents its own management issues? I would imagine, right? Because you don't think about diabetes? I mean, nobody thinks about it exactly the same way. So I'm imagining your acts, and you don't have the same ideas about it. Yeah, okay.

Kari 51:32
That's a good point.

Scott Benner 51:34
Sorry, I don't want to get you in a fight on a podcast. But okay. And so, I've done I've done episodes about divorce, and diabetes. And there, you got to find the exact right person, they want to talk about it. And and I did want to actually guy came on, he was terrific. And his ex wife said he could talk about and everything he was so like, good about it. But the point is, is that he had one management style. And then his his ex did not have the same understanding of it. And so I'm wondering, when you're when, when a child's already kind of like, I don't really, I'm not all that interested in this? Because one household make that easier than the other. And then does that put you in a weird position where you want to say something, but you feel like it's not your place? But you know, it is?

Kari 52:18
Yeah, absolutely. And luckily, my kids didn't have to split households till like a year ago. So you know, if it if she was seven, or eight, and I think it'd be super hard, but but I mean, she has her phone, she she knows it better than him. I don't hope he never listens to this, but she knows the whole disease and everything she needs to do better than him. She knows how to change your pump site or CGM better than him. So I kind of just worked directly through her while she's over there. And once in a while, I've had some, you know, some issues where I can't reach her or this or that I have to reach out to him. And you know, he says he's on it. But, you know, humans have different opinions. But yeah, luckily, again, she's a trooper, even though she doesn't want to be bothered a lot of the time she she accepts, at this point, her diagnosis and heard her need to take care of herself. And so I and we, she and I are very tight and very good together. So we, you know, I just worked directly through her for the most part. But yeah, her numbers are not usually as good over there. But I just gotta pick my battles.

Scott Benner 53:44
Aside of the pick the battles vibe, does it? Are you heartbroken while it's happening? Like, how do you deal with because if you told me right now that I couldn't text my daughter and tell her that her blood sugar was 139, and I wanted it to be at five. I would I would have, I believe what they call Arjuna the entire time. Does it bother

Kari 54:04
you? I Yeah, it does. But I also have to just kind of choose to let some stuff go. I mean, there was one time a couple weeks ago, I was just infuriated. And she was over 400 for six hours. And I couldn't reach her and or she was with the girlfriend and she hates being around her and she doesn't want to talk to her. And she didn't want to answer the phone because she didn't want to talk to me in front of her. You know, blah, blah, blah. It's just this whole ordeal. So her dad and I don't talk a lot. But I did end up reaching out. We use a court order to App our family wizard. I reached out to that and I kind of was pretty straightforward. I'm like, This is unacceptable. She's do this. You Do that, you know? And he's like, Oh, well, I just I just now after I reached out to him, just check ketone. She's fine. She feels fine. She forgot to dose her cereal this morning. We've been chasing the numbers ever since. So six and a half hours later. Yeah. Like, you know, Chase and Miss Bolus cereal for six numbers.

Scott Benner 55:21
I don't want to misrepresent why you're here. And then. But you just said something. Now I have to tell you. I'd stop this recording right now and then say the words to you court ordered app and then let you talk for an hour. Because I would love to understand what that is. More importantly, I'd love to hear the story about how you got to it. But that's neither here nor there. So yeah, but I am imagining something that when you look back on you both cringe and laugh, that's all I'm saying. Well,

Kari 55:49
I cringe and laugh, he probably cringes and doesn't laugh. has an anchor. Yeah, hold

Scott Benner 55:58
other story. Yeah. That's not why you're here. But you fascinated me when you use the words court ordered app. I was like, Oh, my god, there's such a story behind that.

Unknown Speaker 56:06
Yeah.

Kari 56:08
It's been a rough road. Better better.

Scott Benner 56:12
Yeah, I am really, I am super Sorry to hear it. I grew up like, you know, in a divorced house. And I understand all the serious parts of it. And I don't understand I do want to ask you this one question. You don't have to elaborate. But if you're comfortable answering, do you think the diabetes make it harder to be married?

Kari 56:34
Yes. So that is a great question. I love to analyze, you know, think about stuff. So I would never want my daughter to feel this way. But I feel, you know, big battles in our lives, either bring us closer, or break us up. And I felt with her and me and even my son, he's an amazing support for her. And he adores her. I mean, it's strengthen the family significantly. And my ex for the first year was all on board. And I mean, we were a team of four, we battled this, we're doing great. He has a history of mental illness and stuff like that. After about a year, he just kind of tanked. And I feel it led to a lot of troubles within himself and within us. And it just went downhill downhill downhill from there. So yeah, unfortunately, I think that first year, it was just this almost weird blessing. I don't want to call it that. But it was, I mean, we were tapes, and nothing would stop us. And we were upbeat. We weren't when those families that you know, just kind of break down in tears every day about this, we were like, We got this, you can do it. We're gonna do it good. I immediately got involved with jdrf. And that's progressed to the point of like a board seat on the board. And you know, my daughter, and I do tons of advocacy. And I mean, it's become like a new way of life. And for her and me, we've stuck to it, but it it spiraled for him. And I think that affected his mental well being and our marriage and everything.

Scott Benner 58:21
So yeah, I'm sorry, is is there? Um, is there autoimmune on either your side of the family or his?

Kari 58:28
Yes. So no type ones? Well, there were no type ones. I have two or three autoimmune conditions, celiac and then a rare one called poly myositis. And then little stuff like Rhino ads and x month stuff like that. My mom had scleroderma, my aunt had lupus and krones tons of autoimmune and my daughter was diagnosed with hypothyroid at the same time as diabetes. And she doesn't know it better bloodwork last week showed a high celiac antibody. So I have to deal with that. But um, and then my, her dad side had none. But interestingly enough, a young child was diagnosed on his side. And it is his half sister's granddaughter. So I don't know if there's some genetic stuff there. But that's she was diagnosed within the year, last this year. You know, so I don't know if there's any sort of link there. But

Scott Benner 59:34
the reason I asked initially is because I've I'm starting to get a larger number of people who come on to talk about that they have type one and they're bipolar. And it started making me wonder if bipolar was autoimmune, and there are some writings that seem to feel like it may be and and I was so interested by that when you said that

Kari 59:54
but interesting. Yeah, yeah. Well, that that could relate to her father.

Scott Benner 1:00:07
Have you come from like an Irish background ish? Do you have any of that?

Kari 1:00:12
No, I'm I'm Swedish and German. He's a mix of everything.

Scott Benner 1:00:21
Yeah, type ones. Is it is sweden, sweden, one of those places where it barely exists? Or where it's prevalent?

Kari 1:00:27
I am lucky. Good. Good question. But I feel like it's low,

Scott Benner 1:00:32
most common chronic diseases affect you on? Yeah, Type One Diabetes is one of the most common chronic diseases that affect children in Sweden.

Kari 1:00:39
Oh, really? Oh, good to see,

Scott Benner 1:00:41
I just I, after you talk to enough people about this over and over again, you just start seeing connections, you know, like certain certain backgrounds, certain places on the globe, like it just, you know, like with that you've got a number of autoimmune and that your daughter might have celiac? Does she show any symptoms?

Kari 1:01:01
No. So interestingly enough, you know, they screener once or twice a year for all that stuff. She had one of the antibody levels was high, oh, three or four years ago, and it was kind of a rough patch of time as a family. And I was also switching her pump. I think that's when we went from animus to Medtronic. And, you know, she was relatively young, and she wasn't symptomatic. And I talked to her doctor and like, Can we like, you know, for this hurdle, the pomp and you know, just take a few months to kind of settle back down, and then we'll address it. She said, Sure. So by the time we got around to considering scoping her, she's like, you know what, let's run bloodwork again, and her values are normal. Okay, so we never scope, but I feel like she's been on that trajectory. And I'm an optimistic person. But I'm a realist. And I kind of in the back of my mind, she's just been on that trajectory. And it's coming. And so yeah, I haven't heard from the doctor yet. About the blood results, but they post online thought, Oh, no, here we are again. And I haven't told her.

Scott Benner 1:02:15
Yeah, I would think that's not gonna be fun. I yeah, I've had to tell my kids a number of medical things. And it's heartbreaking leading up to it. And then yeah, and you got to be that cheerleader and help them get through it the whole way. And it takes months for it to like sit in and

Unknown Speaker 1:02:31
yeah.

Kari 1:02:33
Feel, and maybe, you know, grass is greener, I don't know. I have celiac. Like I said, You know, I would rather have type one than celiac. I can handle a needle, I can handle carb counts. And granted, I I'm not living it like she is. So that's probably a very flippant thing to say. But you know, the celiac it's, I'm so ultra sensitive. And she is such a picky eater, such a picky eater. It's going to be super rough if she has to go gluten free. And

Unknown Speaker 1:03:09
I don't know. Well, I have

Scott Benner 1:03:09
I have a number of number of episodes with people who really leaned into it and did a great job with it and would now tell you, it doesn't impact their life in any of the ways that you're scared of. So

Kari 1:03:23
this celiac, yeah, yeah, it's Yeah. I mean, I just, I don't know. I mean, I'm not one of those celiacs that, like, are afraid to eat out or anything, but I am really leery because I'll have them flagged my meal and, and I'll still get sick. And you know, it makes it kind of difficult to work or difficult to leave the house or do you know, it's just, uh, I just hate the unknown. And the, the,

Unknown Speaker 1:03:52
you know,

Scott Benner 1:03:53
no, I can't imagine but I do think I understand what you're saying. Like the idea like, at some point, you might just take a bite of something that throws your days off, like not just a couple of hours, right, but a stretch of time.

Kari 1:04:06
Yeah, I mean, I get I get crazy sick. And I can't even pinpoint where but I know it's gluten because I feel a certain way for gluten exposure. And it doesn't have to be like, a one time early on. I kind of forgot I was cooking hamburgers on the grill for the kids and all their friends. And you know, next thing I know, I had eaten a hamburger on a bun and I'm like, Oh my gosh, what the heck am I doing and I didn't get out. My friends are like, Oh, I was so sick. But I mean, that was a big exposure, but just small stuff. Like, you know, I can tell when it's gluten exposure versus just, you know, flu or a little, you know, too much coffee or you know, whatever. And it's it's unexpected and it's frequent. And it's I just dread with her picky eating and her social life. From her,

Scott Benner 1:05:02
does she see? I mean, she obviously sees you live this way to sit. Does it look burdensome to her? through your eyes?

Kari 1:05:09
Um, it does. But she's super supportive. Like, like, if I make something gluten free, I don't have a gluten free household, I feed them and me separately sometimes. But if I make something gluten free, she wants to try it. She never likes it. But so she's very supportive. She thinks it's unfortunate, but I think she feeds off of my, you know, I'm not one to like, Woe is me, I'm gonna have a pity party. My life sucks. And so I think she realizes it's just another burden in life. And, you know, what doesn't make us makes us stronger, makes us stronger. And, you know, I remind her that I'm healthier for being gluten free, because that's what I need. And, you know, she's okay with it. But yeah, it'd be a whole nother story if

Scott Benner 1:06:06
all of a sudden she's like, Listen, I know, we have a rah rah on you. But for me, boohoo, like, I feel that way. You know, I think I think anybody feels that way when something is kind of, quote unquote, taken from them. But, you know, it sucks to, I mean, that you've got the experience that you're not, you know, you're not having a great time of celiac. So it's not like, you know what I mean, it's not like you've like, oh, I've got it all straight, and it works great. And I never get sick. And I'm sure it happens to everybody. And then she's seen. Yeah, you're right. She's not gonna have a great reaction. I do not. I'm sorry for you that you're gonna have to give her that.

Kari 1:06:46
Yeah. I mean, we'll see. I it was, it was mildly elevated, and just one value, but nice port girl.

Scott Benner 1:06:55
I really do. It sucks. I have to tell you, I really appreciate this. I did not know how this was going to go. But I just want to ask you just a couple of drill down questions at the end. So the people whose dogs like So one more time, like what would people notice in their pets that would make them feel like they have diabetes?

Kari 1:07:15
Um, so pretty similar. I mean, lots of thirst. accidents in the house. Sometimes vomiting, definite weight loss. So all the kind of the same things really. Okay. lethargic. Yeah, same stuff.

Scott Benner 1:07:33
All right. And then they go to you and say, I'm seeing what looks like diabetes, you do a quick test, I guess and then they're on their way.

Kari 1:07:42
Yeah, so for most of these people diabetes isn't on the radar. There's like a it doesn't feel that he's been laying around and then a lot of times they don't mention that they're drinking like crazy. But I have my list of questions for every sick patient, like how, you know water consumption up or down any bombing any, you know, and I check a weight and I almost always No, I mean, there's a distinct difference between, say a cat and kidney failure and a diabetic cat like there's there's just a drastic difference. But similarity they both drink more, right? You know, so I tell them well, I you know, I usually do a full blood panel, we run it in house, we have results in half an hour. Like I'd like to check the kidneys and the blood sugar and there's some other stuff. Let's

Unknown Speaker 1:08:23
see what's going on. And,

Unknown Speaker 1:08:24
you know,

Unknown Speaker 1:08:25
there it is. Cool. Well, I

Scott Benner 1:08:27
really appreciate this. I'm going to say thank you and stop. I have something I'm going to tell you personally that I think your daughter might like this comes to the podcast so I'm not gonna bother the people listening because they already know but I want you to know and you can do whatever you want with it. So thank you very very much for doing this. It was delightful now you're very flexible with time and everything and I appreciate that very much.

Unknown Speaker 1:08:51
Sure. No problem all right.

Scott Benner 1:08:58
Huge thanks to carry carry What am I doing I carry carry carry carry Jesus This is what happens we let me do this late at night. A huge thanks to Carrie for coming on the carry a huge thanks to carry carry carry a huge thanks to carry carry. What a huge thanks. How do you sell? Oh my god, I just talked myself out of saying her name. A huge thanks to khari I don't even know I'm forgetting. I give up. I could go back and listen to her say it again. It might be something to do with a Midwest accent. I can't tell you. But one way or the other. I really appreciate her coming on and it's late at night. So coming in. A huge thank you to one of today's sponsors. Je Vogue glucagon, find out more about chivo hypo pen at G Vogue glucagon.com forward slash juicebox you spell that g v o KEGL Uc ag o n.com. forward slash juicebox. I'd also like to thank the Contour Next One blood glucose meter. I know it's not really a person, I can't thank the meter. But you know, it's the Contour Next One blood glucose meter. That's what you're supposed to know about. But it's made by assenza. So if I was really thanking somebody be like, I'd like to thank assenza then you'd be like, who in the hell is ascencio? Scott, which is why just say, I'd like to thank the Contour Next One blood glucose meter, check out there Second Chance test strips, by the way that the meter itself, it might actually be cheaper to buy in cash than than other meters are through your insurance. That's like another thing you can find out on that website. The website rocks, Contour Next One comm forward slash juice box head over and take a look around. While making the ads for this episode, I learned about myself that if you come on the podcast and say to me, hey, Scott, tell me what you think about people who scam people on Facebook and try to get them to buy t shirts. I could probably rant and rave about it for about 40 minutes. Which I didn't know until just now. I'm assuming you know, you're like Oh, yeah. That's not surprising to me, Scott. But to me, it was surprising. I was like, Oh, I have a lot of feelings about this. Yeah, right. That's pretty much it.