#1172 Perfection vs. Health

April 11, 2024Scott Benner

Erika Forsyth and Scott discuss the balance between perfection and healthy.

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Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, welcome to episode 1172 of the Juicebox Podcast.

In this episode of the podcast, Erica Forsythe is back, and we're gonna discuss the balance between perfection and health. Learn more about Erica at Erica forsythe.com Nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. When you place your first order for ag one with my link, you'll get five free travel packs and a free year supply of vitamin D. Drink ag one.com/juice box don't forget to save 40% off of your entire order at cosy earth.com All you have to do is use the offer code juice box at checkout that's juice box at checkout to save 40% at cosy earth.com If you're looking for community around type one diabetes, check out the Juicebox Podcast private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes, but everybody is welcome type one type two gestational loved ones. It doesn't matter to me. If you're impacted by diabetes and you're looking for support, comfort or community check out Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes on Facebook this show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries G voc hypo pen. Find out more at G voc glucagon.com forward slash juicebox. Today's episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the contour next gen blood glucose meter. This is the meter that my daughter has on her person right now. It is incredibly accurate and waiting for you at contour next one.com/juice box. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the ever sent CGM and implantable six month sensor is what you get with ever since. But you get so much more exceptional and consistent accuracy over six months. And distinct on body vibe alerts when you're higher low on body vibe alerts. You don't even know what that means to you. Ever since cgm.com/juicebox. Go find out. Eric, I feel like I haven't heard from you in a while. What happened?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 2:32
It does feel like it's been a while January and February happened. I think it was a disease two months the holidays. Yes. Well, this

Scott Benner 2:39
is better than the last time there was a gap in me hearing from you when you have like some surgery or something like that. Yes,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 2:44
I had my knee replacement. That was a couple months. It was couple two years ago. But we were we didn't talk for a couple of

Scott Benner 2:51
months. Cuz you were busy rehabbing. You have a life or something like that, that I'm not completely aware of. So what I did this time, because we're getting back together, and we finished up the parenting series, which by the way, the last episode of it goes up in a couple of days. Okay, what I did was I sent you for ideas that were sent to me by the moderator of my Facebook group based on things that people had said in the Facebook group. And they're, by the way, literally saying, Hey, would you talk to Erica about this? It wasn't just like a abstract question. It was like you should talk to Eric about this. And it's like, all right. Oh, that's fun. Yeah. So you picked one of the four tell people what you picked. So

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 3:33
I thought that we could focus on finding the right balance of, you know, living with a chronic disease. But I think we can hear that with perfectionism and trying to go back and forth between what is it like to try to manage your blood sugar from a perfectionist perspective? And then how can we move to a more balanced way of managing and living it whether you're living with it or the caregiver,

Scott Benner 4:04
right? Do you know while you were talking, I did my best Google foo and I typed in finding balance between perfectionism and chronic illness. And a lot of scholarly articles came back. That interesting that

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 4:17
is, and I did some Googling and I just perpetually impressed by how many articles there are on mental health and diabetes that was not present. Even 10 years ago, you know, as a the prevalence of it. Yeah. Yeah.

Scott Benner 4:33
Nobody was thinking about that. I don't think so. Okay, so what do we have here? We have an every day situation that some days is more in the forefront and some days more in the background, always very important. You know, when you're ignoring it, it's to your detriment. And at the same time, if you run around trying to be perfect about it, it's going to burn you out or make you crazy. Yes. And so what's the middle of that?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 4:59
Yeah. is one of our first few episodes I think we ever recorded was on burnout. And I think we'll definitely touch on that. But I think and we've talked about, you know, the mental load of, of being a parent in general. And I also thought I just realized I'm holding up to Scott, my February 2024 issue of Psychology Today. Oh, look at and what is the title burnout

Scott Benner 5:23
about that burnout? Yeah, that's not specifically about diabetes. No, no, but

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 5:29
in and I'll probably reference it maybe a few times because I just was reading through it this morning. Talking about you know, the data with parenting with children with chronic illness. And that right currently, as many as 20% of parents identify as feeling burnout but the rates are higher from parents of children with a chronic illness and that's According to research from or re bro Sweden forgive me for the pronunciation but 20% so that that's a that's a significant amount without chronic illness

Scott Benner 6:00
no chronic illness in the life and parents are still one in five parents is like I am I visit them too much.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 6:08
Yes, gotcha. Yes. And we can talk about those factors. Yeah. So

Scott Benner 6:12
I my brain goes immediately to that there's a utopia in your mind when you get married. That's something you expect and then when you have children, you build a family and then the further it gets away from your image. The more I Gosh, I don't want to say disappointing but maybe the more disappointed you are and then maybe the more difficult that is then to rev up to do the things that you didn't expect you don't I mean, like it's a very simple idea but on the 7000 day in a row that you've made lunch there's a voice in your head that goes through it is gonna be dead soon. Like you're wondering why do I keep making lunch? It just it the repetition is is numbing sometimes if you take insulin or sulfonylureas you are at risk for your blood sugar going too low. You need a safety net when it matters most. Be ready with G voc hypo pen. My daughter carries G voc hypo pen everywhere she goes because it's a ready to use rescue pen for treating very low blood sugar and people with diabetes ages two and above that I trust. Low blood sugar emergencies can happen unexpectedly and they demand quick action. Luckily, G vo Capo pen can be administered in two simple steps even by yourself in certain situations. Show those around you where you storage evoke hypo pen and how to use it. They need to know how to use G vo Capo pen before an emergency situation happens. Learn more about why G voc hypo pan is in Ardens diabetes toolkit at G voc glucagon.com/juicebox. G voc shouldn't be used if you have a tumor in the gland on the top of your kidneys called a pheochromocytoma. Or if you have a tumor in your pancreas called an insulinoma. Visit G voc glucagon.com/risk. For safety information. Far too often we accept the blood glucose meter that someone hands to us, the doctor reaches into a drawer and goes here and take this one. That is that is that the one you want. Is that accurate, you have no way of knowing. But if you want accuracy, and you want to be confident in the blood glucose readings that you're getting from your meter, you want that contour next gen, it's incredibly easy to get the same meter that Arden uses, just go to contour next one.com/juice box, that's all you have to do. The cons are next gen is easy to use, and highly accurate. It features a smart light that provides a simple understanding of your blood glucose levels. And of course, Second Chance sampling technology that can help you to save money with fewer wasted strips, contour next one.com/juicebox. And sometimes

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 8:59
you might not even be aware of the level of either anxiety or burnout that you're feeling. But perhaps you've noticed that you're really irritable, or you're not performing well at work or your relationships are deteriorating. Those are indicators that like you might be feeling the frustration of not wanting to make the lunch for the 7000 a day. Yeah, but you can't quite connect the pieces but then you're screaming at you know your colleagues. Yeah,

Scott Benner 9:25
no, i By the way, I'm not kidding. I picked the big number on purpose because I'm talking 25 years into it. You're like another egg. Okay, I'll make an egg. What and then you go to put the fork to your mouth. This is my life. As soon as my food gets warm, the dog has to go outside. I personally feel like he's waiting for my food to hit the table. Then he goes, Oh, look how happy that guy looks pretty good bark by the door now. So but with your kids, with your spouse. I mean even especially to when you start settling into the norms. And this is just who I am this is just who you are right? And I'm not a bad guy, you're not a bad lady. But I wish you would do this a little differently. And you wish this about me and we've talked about it and it doesn't change, but it's not a deal breaker. But then there it is, every day, you know what I mean? And, and then you have 1000 things going right in your life. And you see the four things that aren't that I think is what puts you into that space. And then you made such a good point a moment ago, you don't necessarily know you're in that space. Right? Yeah, and I think too, when you're, I was gonna say UNGA. Bissen. But I don't know how much interest we're gonna get out to people here. But like, when you're feeling like, you know, unsteady, it is not your first thought. To look at yourself. It's always you always look at what is happening around you these things, these people, they're making me feel this way. You know what I mean? So

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 10:55
yes, are you right? Yeah, the circumstances, any kind of environmental stressor?

Scott Benner 10:59
Yeah, I'd be fine. If it if it wasn't for my dog barking when I when I went to eat every day, or if my husband just wouldn't do this all the time like that. But the truth is, is if you fix that thing, you would just move on to the next thing in your head. Right? Yes.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 11:14
Yes, our brains, our brains are really, they like to hold on to the the negatives and the misses. Yeah, instead of like, we don't fixate on cashed, I really nailed my dinner Bolus.

Scott Benner 11:31
We don't fixate on that, I'm happy to say here and never tell her it's here. But if she finds that, that's fine with me telling you that my wife has a point system in her head that she doesn't know that she has. And it only works in one direction. So every time I do something unfavorable. I lose a point. But if I were to cure cancer, I would not gain 10 points. It would be well, it's about time he cured cancer. I like like, right. Because it's always felt like it's me. It's not just her by the way. I think it's personal relationships. Like it feels like you start with 100 stars, and you lose one and lose one and lose one. But you don't gain them back ever. Like you never, you know, you never give people their flowers, you just go take them from them. And then to kind of bring this to diabetes, I think that same thing can happen. Like that's why I try pointing out like, hey, there's a lot of good that comes from having type one. I know it's not something you would willfully take type one for. But people are often much better at their own health more in tune with their bodies. You know what I mean? Like, yes, that's a big deal. You don't see that in the aggregate maybe. But as it shakes out over your lifetime, you'll notice it. So I don't know. So what do you think like how do we talk to people about understanding that it's going to be difficult, and that these things that we just talked about are kind of drag you backwards and backwards and backwards. But at the same time, there's a lot of pluses happening. And while your health goals are very important and can't be ignored, they also can't be the reason that you give in? No, no, that's a lot, actually. Yes,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 13:13
it is. So we have we have the understanding, we all know the chronic illness of this chronic illness that maybe feels different than other chronic illnesses because of the consistent decision making and mindfulness that we have to have around it and I like that word mindfulness instead of like we're having to worry about it oftentimes I hear others talk about like I'm always worried about my numbers. I'm worried about my my daughter's going high my dad I'm just worried worried worried. And what's driving that is there's fear right? There's the anxiety is being driven by fear of the higher the low.

Scott Benner 13:54
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Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 15:17
And even just changing the language from anxiety, like I'm worried, too, I want to be mindful is reminding yourself reminding your mind and your body of like, okay, we do need to be mindful and intentional. But what I don't want is the motivation to be driven by fear. And I will kind of get through I want to do I think it's important to talk about the perfectionism and how that is develops with sorry, go ahead.

Scott Benner 15:42
Does that stem like, I feel like what I hear you saying is that because there are so many decisions to make, so consistently, that I'm being put into an anxiety inducing situation, every five minutes or every hour or a couple of times a day, even depending on how, you know, well, I have things balance for myself. And so you never really get a chance to what, like go into that. Because I don't have that thing. But my wife talks about it. She said, I talked to my sleep the other night, and I said something very loud. And she described how her adrenaline popped up. And then she couldn't go back to sleep. And I was like, oh my god, like I swear to you, you could bang a garbage can in my bedroom. And I'd be like, what is happening? But that garbage can away? And then I go right back asleep. But that's not that way for everybody. Cuz you hear this all the time, by the way? Yeah. It's a it's a thing in the community that you hear frequently. The idea about like, oh, it's been said that people with type one diabetes make X amount more decisions a day than everybody else. And I've always just thought like, oh, I don't why does that matter? But I think that's because of my personality. I don't think of it that way. But a lot of people can be dragged down by that.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 16:51
Well, and I think in the beginning, everyone, I sure, regardless of personality, or coping mechanisms are going to experience that level of you know, the nervous system is on kind of flares up and you're in fight or flight like trying to make these decisions. I don't know, is one unit gonna help us too? Is it too much? You know, those types of things. So you're in like the cortisol level is pumping pretty consistently in the beginning. And so what we want to address is over time, how can the cortisol levels be reduced by not only just experience, but also mindset of? Does it have to be an 80 to 120 95% of the time? Because I think people do feel like an end, you know, obviously, I'm not a medical doctor. And the ADA recommends 70 to 180 70% of the time, but there really isn't data yet. or long term CGM used to back that up. But yeah, like that's maybe a good window. It's a

Scott Benner 17:57
tough world where you need to make a health decision for a mental health decision, because you are trading one for the other at some point, because I mean, listen, you've had diabetes. A long time i Arden's had it now, for my God. She's how long, almost 18 years? Wow, is that true? Yeah, well, I don't want her blood sugar to be 180 didn't mean like, if it is we get it back, and that's fine. And we don't like we don't like cling to it. But honestly, if you take the mental health out of it, and look at the physical health, that is not a thing you want. And so there it is, again, right. Like and you you mentioned the cortisol, the goal is not to like learn to live in it. The goal is to not have it happen, right? Because learning to live in, it just probably just killed me when I'm 50. But I'll be like, people be like, Oh, my God, he was so cool under pressure, but you're not cool under pressure. If you're still feeling it, you're just making good decisions in a bad situation. It makes sense. Yes,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 18:54
yes. And I often will ask clients who are struggling with this very issue of, you know, feeling like they need to live in his perfect line, or zone or range. But then I said, you know, at what expense, right? Like, is it? Are you living in a heightened state of cortisol pumping, you cannot sleep you cannot function. You're hysterical crying. And I'm not talking about like, the initial grief stages. And that is that is normal. Yeah, in the beginning, it just is and that will subside. But years and years and years of living with this kind of I need to be perfect needs to be perfect, but that is not sustainable. And that's where you get into the burnout phase. Obviously,

Scott Benner 19:40
I didn't mean earlier to say that I wasn't ever like that. I'm just not like that now, but I the beginning. I was crying like every day for three years. By the way, like a couple of years. I would just in the afternoon. I tell people all the time, my wife would come home and be like, Oh, I didn't have a chance to get a shower. Then I'd get in the shower. So I could cry because nobody can hear me that I'd come out and I'd be like, everything's great. But it was And even on the third day of Arden's diagnosis in the hospital, I recognized what a shift this was going to be like to my, my own personal health. And even I remember saying to my wife, do you think we'll get divorced because of this? Like, just a couple of days, because I was extrapolating it out. Yes. And I was like, oh my god, like, she's not what we thought she was now. Right. So you have to re, like, configure that in your mind, we could kill her with the medication. If we don't get rid of the medication, we could kill her. There's going to be the possibility of long term complications, we won't see them while we're happening. So they'll always be in the back of our head, we're gonna disagree, we're going to argue we're going to be short on sleep, we're going to be all jacked up on cortisol, which isn't a thing I talked about 20 years ago, but you knew you were going to be on edge, you know. And I kept thinking, like, Oh, this is how we're going to get divorced. Because it is a coin flip steal to get divorced, by the way. And then it wasn't six weeks later that the endocrinologist said, the incidence of divorce in America is one and two. But if you have a chronically ill child, it goes to two and three. And I was like, Oh, my goodness. Yeah. So yes.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 21:14
And when you're in that stressful state, worst case, scenario, thinking can feel real. Like that's like, it's really going to happen.

Scott Benner 21:21
Yeah. Oh, no, it definitely felt like it was gonna happen. I was like, Well, this is I felt like a self fulfilling prophecy. To me, I was like, Well, this is it, all the cards are out on the table, they all point to this, you know, we're going to flip one over one day, and one of us is going to get pissed about something and say something we can't take back. And that's gonna be the end of it. Like it really is what it felt like. But day to day, that same pressure exists if you're managing type one for a child, or if you're an adult living with it, like, When am I going to experience something that just pushes me over an edge? I don't come back from and I just say to myself off, it may once he's eight, I don't care. You know? Yes.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 22:01
Well, I think in that sentence, and question, it is the day to day, which is so different from, we used to have this evaluation every three months with the agency, we did not have this data. And I think there is the shift, just like I know, you know, social media and all this instant, you know, news and numbers like feed like you, if you're using that data to determine your sense of like self worth, there's two pieces, right? There's the data determine, am I going low? Or am I having long term complications? And then you can connect it to I'm a terrible person, or I'm a terrible diabetic, or I'm failing my child. And that's the piece. I mean, there are there are the real truth of having lows and long and highs. And that is real. So I'm not dismissing that. But where we're talking is the is the gray area of what is that data? How is that defining you as a human being? I'm

Scott Benner 23:05
following you completely. Yeah, I know it feels convoluted, but I don't find it to be when you're saying it. You know what I'm is that weird example, ever seen those jumped videos, the scare videos where people like turn a corner and scare a lady and she's like, goes crazy. And then they just do it to her over and over and over again. If you did that, to me, I would punch you, I wouldn't go back and go, I would come forward at you. And so it's personality driven. Like I just had a conversation with someone the other day about their young son 12 years old, a little bit in his hands a little bit in his parents hands, parents, one of the parents has type one diabetes. But the kids they once he was in the AIDS, and then G seven came out, they put the clarity app in with the G seven app, the kids now seeing it sort of like a goal. And he got his a one seen on a six one, the little 12 year old boy, like by himself amazing, right? Because his personality and how he's wired. When you jump scare him, he comes forward. And now you put that same technology in someone's hands, who goes backwards and they go, Oh, look at me. Now I'm being judged every day by my app, this is terrific. And he thought, Oh, this is great. I can battle with this and have a good time like a game. And so you don't know who you are. And again, like we were talking about earlier, as it's happening to you, you can't step out of yourself and go, Oh, I'm just reacting to this wrong. You know, this, this could be really good information for me if I just changed the way I'm perceiving it. And is that right? Yes,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 24:33
it will. And I would as a practical tip, I would if you are looking at a clarity app or any of the apps that are connected to your your meters, I mean, your your meters, your CGM or your pumps. If you're looking at that constantly and looking at the trends or the percentages, and that is too much data for you. And that is leading you to shame based thinking. I would definitely encourage like Those are great information, maybe could look at your clarity report once a week, like when you get your weekly email or pull back a little bit

Scott Benner 25:07
weekly, not daily. Don't make yourself like if you if you're feeling shaken up by it, don't keep doing the thing that makes you feel shaken up about it. Correct? Correct. Isn't that great advice for so many things in life that nobody takes that advice? Like, shouldn't I also not pick up my fan? dewlap? Like, you know, right, like, how do you Yeah, sometimes we feed ourselves the exact thing we, we know, we don't need, and I didn't use feed to like invoke food, but maybe there too. And so like, it's very, I don't know, like, I once said to somebody, it feels like you're happier when things are shaken up. And then as I thought about that person, I think, well, that's how they grew up. Like they grew up in a household that was like, always, like, it felt frenetic right and off kilter, and nothing was ever stable. And so when things get good and stable, that person gets uncomfortable, because that's not what that's not where they, they're comfortable, because they didn't grow up like that. There's so many different ways to get you. So I come into your office, because nobody's going to come in and say, Hey, I need therapy. I'm great under pressure, like so like, so someone comes in and says, Hey, look, I've got all this great data. I know, it's valuable for me, but I can't stop looking at it, as you know, condemnation. Is that a self confidence? Like, where do you start with that when you try to help them? So

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 26:35
I would want to understand how are they perceiving themselves in other areas of their lives in their work? Is there are they you, I think, we talked about the different types of perfectionism, there's the self oriented perfectionism, where you have the expectation that you will perform and perfectly in all areas, and then there's the socially prescribed perfectionism where you think others around you are expecting you to be perfect. So I would look at those two factors in other areas of your life. Do you have that in your relationships, in your work? In your own self image body image? Or is it just with diabetes, oftentimes, you might see in other areas, so you'd start there. And then I would want to understand your what is the self talk going on? So if you are feeling like, gosh, I cannot maintain, I cannot stay in range all the time. And therefore I'm telling myself, I'm not good enough. Again, met medical data aside, we wouldn't be necessarily looking at that. But we'd be looking at that to see how was that prescribing who you are? And how much are you listening to that? And where can we find moments for truth, and grace and compassion? In kind of the broader sense,

Scott Benner 28:01
when I talk to people who are what's the phrase I would use here? realists, right, this is somebody who's not willing to ignore the idea that a 250 blood sugar is bad for me. But they also live in the world where their cortisol has jumped up, and they're having these self doubts, and you know, and all this stuff is happening, they're feeling, you know, they're feeling like everything is a judgment, they're failing that whole thing. So when you feel that way, but you can't let go of the reality of what those numbers mean to your health. That's where I see people get stuck the most. They seem like ping pong balls, like flying back and forth. You know what I mean? Like, I know, I should be kinder to myself, but I'm dying here. But I'm gonna go crazy before I die. Like, like, you don't even like in that. That's, that's the part I feel. When I see people in that space. That's the one I feel the worst for. I think you don't I mean, because yes, because it's not like you're tricking yourself into being upset, you're really upset for a good reason. And the thing that you're trying to avoid, it's real, like so. I mean, it would be no different than if you and I were in this house together. And there was a guy outside with a gun. And I was like, oh, Erica, don't worry about it. You don't I mean, like, and we all feel great for 10 minutes till he came flying through the door with his gun pointed and we're like, oh, you know, we probably should have thought about that. So like, that's how it feels to me, ya know? Yeah.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 29:28
So if the person with the with the 250. We would want to look at okay, what is yes, we all want to be in range and have, you know, an agency under seven. So we that's like the goal. But what are the behaviors that are leading to the the ups and downs? Are they consistent highs? And is it burnout coming from perfectionism? Is it ambivalence which maybe, I guess we're kind of talking about that right now? But no, we'll get into that. it later and is it or is it not knowing how to to manage? Is it the depression a lot? You know, there's no real motivation. And is that due to the diabetes is it also is it in general depression. And so we would want to kind of suss that out, like what is. And it could be a combination of all of those things. So knowing how to do it, having the motivation, not really caring. And those can be a messy trio, right, and then cycle of all impacting to be feeling like crap physically and emotionally, not knowing how to manage,

Scott Benner 30:40
right. So from my perspective, as the person who's raised a two year old to a 20 year old, and I've gone from not knowing what I was doing, being incredibly upset all the time having all the feelings that we've described, to slowly figure it out. And now to getting to a point where, honestly, I don't really know what you could ask me about diabetes, where I wouldn't be like, oh, yeah, just do this. Right. Right, like so. And that took a long time. People get to fast forward a little bit, listen to the podcast, because I had to figure it out. So I could come here and talk about it. You guys just get to hear somebody talk about it and go, Oh, okay, I'll do that. You know, and which is, which is terrific. But what I keep thinking while you're talking is maybe you got to fake it till you make it. Like maybe you have to say to yourself, I know one ad is not great. I know, 250 is way higher than I want to be or 300 My God, like, you know, I mean, like, I know all that's true. But I believe that I'm not going to be there one day. And this is part of my learning process. Like while I'm learning, I can't get 100 on every test. So I'll accept the B plus, I'll accept the C minus as this is where I am. But here's where I'm going. And when I get there, I won't see 250 blood sugars anymore. And I really I want to tell you, between you, me and everybody listening, I do not know the last time Martin's budget has been over 250. Like they didn't You mean, like unless there's like a failure of something, or something like that. But day to day making decisions. We just don't see that. You know, I would call 180 A spike like a like a pretty, like, drastic spike for her. But that's because we know what to do we know when to do it. And we do those things. Yes. Now, back in the day. 250 was a Tuesday. Didn't you mean like, I would have been like 250 We're killing it. Like it's not 350. Let's go Yeah, like this is going our way. But but if I could look back and give my my backward looking advice would be that if you're working towards it, and you're getting good information, and you're taking meaningful steps, you will actually get to a point that I've just described. And honestly, the easier you are yourself, the more grace you give yourself in the moment, the more you're able to say, yeah, it didn't go this way today, but I know I'm getting to it. I think the quicker you'll get there, because now you're spending time learning and and moving forward instead of spending time beating yourself up and woe is me. And we're hand wringing and stuff like that. Does that all make sense? Yes.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 33:14
Because yes, because shame, as we've talked about before, likes to keep you there. Yeah, it does not want it to, to shift. Yeah. So when and, you know, I certainly have fluctuations. And it'll be, you know, whatever number and I will say, oops, like that. That was Miss. Oops, I forgot to Pre-Bolus for dinner tonight because I had 18,000 things going on, right? But I'm gonna I'll catch it up. But that also comes from 34 years of living with it. And knowing how and like all the things, all the factors, right, like protective factors. But I could wear and I certainly have been here in my past, like, oh, my gosh, I'm at this number. I'm in the TOS. And I'm going to this is going to affect me long term. How did I do this I terrible person. And you get stuck there, you almost

Scott Benner 34:14
become a parasite in your own story. And I don't know if How do I mean that? Oh, there are some parasites that go into animals that rewild rewire the animal's brain to poop on its own food so that other animals will eat the food with the parasite in it so that the parasite can spread itself apart. That's an actual thing.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 34:34
That's That's so crazy. I can't even I don't even know why you know that. Yeah.

Scott Benner 34:38
Okay. Well, we all know anybody who's listening now knows why I know this. But so there's a parasite that can go into an animal. It will tell the animal like literally, like crap on the food, because I know other animals will come by and eat the food and then I'll get the spread myself out and go on my journey. You kind of become that in your own life when you have the self doubt hits you. And almost the feeling bad feels normal, like I talked about a minute ago. And so you almost make yourself keep feeling bad. And also, when you're feeling badly about your health, you can do this thing where you like, again, like we talked about earlier, isn't it interesting how this all comes together? And I don't mean for it to, you can point to a doctor and go, it's her fault. She didn't tell me. That doctor I spoke to he could have told me about Pre-Bolus thing, but he didn't. So my blood sugar spice now my fault, therefore, likely my parents fault or Oh, my parents didn't tell me they left me alone too long with it. They didn't stay with me till I figured it out. They stayed with me too long and made me you know, what's the word? When you're now can't help yourself, help us. It's a psychological word that I just lost. It's not going to be important data, they can see me it'll pop, it'll pop up into my head, like 10 minutes after we're done, I'll be gone. But agency agency took away my agency. And so I it was always them doing it's their fault that I don't know how to do it because they were doing it for me. Like no matter what happens to you, that's the thing you're going to blame. That is just such a human thing. Like I mean, you go find a billionaire somewhere right now and be like, Tell me who's screwing you and they're gonna have a list. They're gonna be like, well, here's what's happening to me, like, but I'm like, nothing's happening to you. If a billion dollars, it's all going well, like, like, just try looking at the good things. But we can't do that. Like we never do that. Something's always wrong. It's always something else or someone else's fault. Because that's the only way you can sometimes stop from feeling like this. Like, look what I'm doing. to shame we can we blame? Yeah. Is that Is it a t shirt slogan that I just go to?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 36:45
Yeah, that's it is it is a common phrase for sure. To avoid

Scott Benner 36:49
the shame. We can blame we can blame. Nice. I'm putting that on a t shirt. Shirt. Can you imagine you walk into the shoe people like what does that say? And then they start going, Oh, I do that on my butt. But that's the point to is. It's that feeling of like, oh, look what I do. When I feel ashamed. I blame other people. It's not what you do. It's what everyone standing on two feet does. That's the fake it till you make it give it away. Because you know, you're headed in the right direction. Part of it like this is just how people's brains work. Like don't get stuck in this part. And I know that's easier said than done. But that is a clue, though. I mean, you're, you're almost willfully keeping yourself here. And eventually, you know, the secret is, most people get out of it eventually. It's how long you're stuck in it. That is really the thing. I think you have more sway over than you think. Yes. Because you know what I mean, I interview a lot of people. And I enjoy talking to a 65 year old person whose story when they were 15, you would go oh, God, if I heard that story while they were 15. I think this person's done. Like they're never getting out of this. But they do. You know, like, I don't know. I don't know what the answer. Obviously, these are just conversations. I don't think there's a hard and fast answer in any of this. But right.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 38:05
And I think that the sooner and this might be a lifelong process to realize that blaming is a dead end, and you will get stuck in that. Not that conversely, I want to say well, you should just shame yourself because, like, be read that way, right? Like, well, don't blame others. But shame yourself because shame is not a productive, proactive feeling. But we often get stuck in that and I know as parents to care as caregivers, that can be a very common experience. And particularly when you're managing blood sugar's feeling like you're responsible for your child's health. And so it's naturally, you know, feeling like oh my gosh, I mismanaged their blood sugar. Shame on me, now they're gonna have they're gonna lose their their vision.

Scott Benner 38:54
Does it have to be shamed as taking responsibility have to be shame? No, no, no. But that's where, where our minds go. Our minds

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 39:02
go. Because who? Because then like a parent would say, or I would say if I if I, you know, I don't my children don't have type one. But if I were to make a mistake, that caused them pain in the moment, it was on me because

Scott Benner 39:17
there has to be a reason because that's how black and white we are. That's why everyone comes on. And they they're so adamant to tell that diagnosis story because they want to show you where they got diabetes. This wasn't my fault is Coxsackie virus and by the way, that's true, but they need to say it out loud. And they want to tell other Pete Oh, it's about the reason. Like I need a reason. This is not just about diabetes to people need that's why everybody works in, in black and white. That's why the that's why the ambiguity. Ambiguity is not comfortable to people. Is that right? People like an answer. That's why they want to be on a team you If

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 40:00
we want to ascribe ascribe a meaning and a reason behind things and not I mean we, you can get stuck in black and white thinking or all or nothing thinking for sure. And where you want to move out of because oftentimes, it's all bad, or it's all on me when the alternative could also be true. But that's hard, it's hard to retrain your brain. And that's where, you know, trading, retraining your neuro pathways and your thought patterns is really significant and helpful. And you can do that and in therapy.

Scott Benner 40:31
So to use another example, oh, my God, I see it, okay. So there are some people who will tell you, it's just diabetes, there's nothing you can do about it, it's gonna go up and down, you're a once he's not really in your control, I've given it up to God or whatever like, like saying you want to do and that makes you comfortable that you're not hurting yourself. And then there's the other, there's an opposite side, say, like a very keto diet person who's taken in 10 carbs a day, and they're barely using any insulin, but they have a lot of stability. They know if they if they try to weight from that edge, that they've found their, their comfort in, and they start letting more carbs in, then they're going to have more variability, then they're not going to know what's going on. So they have to defend their their position, you have to defend that position is the right decision. Because look, it works out well, for me, just like the person on the other side can defend that this isn't on me, it's on, it's on something else. And both of them are trying to avoid feeling like it's their fault if something goes wrong. And on the one side, you get to take credit for the decision you've made, I'm going to eat very low carbon doing this thing. And on the other side, you get to take credit for believing in a different power this in charge of you and not yourself. And I'm in the middle here telling people you have to understand what foods impact you how they impact you how to use your insulin, and that uncertainty is uncomfortable for the edges. But there's also a great amount of people who are very comfortable in that I want the knowledge so I can decide. And these are the three different psychological, like, norms that you find around diabetes. Did I just figure all that out while we were talking? Or am I wrong? Am I making sense? Yes,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 42:17
I think and I think I can almost see you thinking about all of all of the stories. Yeah, that's exactly what all of the comments from the Facebook group and kind of synthesizing

Scott Benner 42:29
Yeah, I just acted like my own AI from it. I just fed everything, did some research, like data collection, I was like, wait, I know what I'm saying. Because I don't by the way, I don't care. If you eat low carb, I think that's terrific. I don't care if you are like, hey, my a one C seven and a half. And I'm happy and this is the best thing to do. If that's you, then that's terrific. But I'm trying to see the psychological side of it. Because then there's also people who are like, look, sometimes I eat low carb because it's easier. And sometimes my blood sugar gets out of whack. And I say, whatever. And like, I don't think there's anything wrong with any of those three perspectives. But understanding where they're coming from. It's just very interesting. Because I've heard these stories, so many different ways, so many different times. And in the end, it's all about it's just all about humans and how they react to things. And we do fall into buckets, to some degree. And I think specifically about this, these are kind of the three buckets. You know, I have found myself recently, as I'm recording those cold wind episodes, and talking more about like how doctors should talk to patients and stuff like that. Every time I get done one of one of those conversations, I have this like enduring thought, almost like when I get done talking to you, I think, I don't know if this is a thing you can ever make black and white to just tell somebody, like follow these steps and you'll feel better. Like that's what I think I believe in the therapy so much because you need somebody to walk you through it. And while you don't even know you're being walked through it, but to this other thing with a cold wind and you see all these people who like became a nurse or became a doctor and are still delivering substandard care and their understanding is not that and when I get to the end of the conversations, I always think to myself, so it's just it's a human problem. And then everything's a human problem on one level or another right like it's our ability or inability or desire or you know, to work hard at something and make an impact or in some of us are just like look, it's just the job I'm going to show up I'm going to do the thing, and I'm gonna leave I don't I'm not trying to make an impact. And you mix that all together in a soup and you get you get society I should have gone to college I might have enjoyed it

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 44:44
oh gosh. Yes. I mean is it is it. It's human nature. But in going back to kind of these these buckets, it's you know, where do you feel comfortable? Is it is it control? Like we all want to feel like we're in control. And I know we've talked about this before too. look like, but if I don't know how to control and we can't perfectly control diabetes, do we? Can we stay in that gray zone of I'm going to do what kind of works for me, I'm going to make mistakes, and I'm gonna have to move on? Or do I have to live in the rigid? Yeah, like, you know, on the on the rigidity of, it has to be this way. And if it's not, then I'm gonna mess up. And I'm going to feel terrible about myself,

Scott Benner 45:24
all these different decisions are just different levels of you. Giving your brain and the way it works, the freedom to do what it does, like I don't know if that makes sense or not, like if you if I took a low carb person with a four or five, a one C, and I tried to drag them over to the other side and said, Hey, you're not going to worry if your blood sugar goes to 200. They couldn't make sense of that. Like that would not work for them. It's not how their brain works. If I took that person who said, hey, you know, once in a while it is what it is. And I made them eat low carb forever. They couldn't deal with that. And I think the people in the middle, if you took them to either side would say this is too rigid one way or the other. I need a blend, I need gray. Like, you know, that's so interesting. We should rename this episode, watch Scott, understand everything we all got in our first Psych class in our freshman year of college, as if it was a new idea that the world just found, it really is interesting for me, because I've learned about life. The same way I learned about diabetes, like I didn't ask anybody for help. I didn't go to a class, I just picked my way through it. And I didn't go to college like so as I live. I know there are times I see things. And I'm like, I bet you this was described to somebody and like, you know, their sophomore year Psych class, I'm seeing it like, like a newborn, sometimes. You know what I mean? And maybe that's valuable, because it can be explained to all the other people who didn't end up in college, listening to this. Because once you understand how people think, you stop being mad at them. In any mean, you're just like, oh, this is just who they are. Like, it's and I know, it's a simple thing. And people say all the time, but once you really see it when somebody is doing something, and you don't ascribe like bad actor, like vibes to them, like, Oh, they're doing this on purpose, or she's trying to make me feel this way or something like that, once you realize that's not what's going on, life just gets so much easier. And I wonder if diabetes couldn't be the same way?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 47:24
It makes sense. Yes, you know, you're making me think of, you know, one of my faves Brene Brown, who did research on and data collection on people's stories. And that's how she came up with the, you know, the concept of vulnerability. I mean, she didn't come up with that concept. But how that is really challenging for people to be vulnerable, based on all of the interviews and research she did, and did data collection based on people's stories, which is what you're doing, you know, through the podcast, and the in the group, I

Scott Benner 47:57
just have always felt like, I know, there's more to life than I understand. And I like to wonder what it is, if you ask me my favorite thing to do. I know I've said this before, but like, like going out to the end of my understanding and wondering what's beyond it is one of my favorite things to do. And you can't just do it in your head. Because you only know what you know, you have to talk to other people and listen to other people or, and then instead of judging them think where did that come from? Like, you know, and not be upset about it. Like if it came from a bad place or a good place. It's like, whatever this is where it came from. So I love the after dark episodes sometimes to people who are willing to like, come on and say like, Hey, I'm a heroin addict. Here's my story. Be vulnerable. Yeah, yeah. And and let that out there. And if you're willing to, if you're willing to meet that vulnerability with your own kind of openness, then you can you grow from it. Like I actually found myself thinking it's funny, I was thinking about this in the shower this morning. But I didn't know I was thinking about this. I kept wondering how can I pass on my life's experiences to my kids so that they can fast forward a little bit. But I can't think of a way to do it. Because sharing my experience as a story only goes so far, they actually need to go through this too. This is why we progress so slowly. You know, and maybe that's by design or, or necessary. You know what I mean? Like maybe if we kept leaping forward, we wouldn't be able to readjust fast enough. Oh, maybe that's what we're seeing with social media too. Right? Like technology keeps leaping forward and people can't catch up and then we're all anxious because this isn't the soup we're supposed to be swimming in. That's

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 49:38
right. Yeah. You have to do the work yourself. And while yes, it would be so wonderful if we could say here's exactly how to live a balanced life, living with a chronic illness or caregiving for your child with diabetes. Take a walk go outside like you know, everyone knows all those tools. Take a break do deep breathing, be kind to yourself, but it really is slowing down to understand the process that you are undergoing. And doing the work yourself, which is not an easy answer,

Scott Benner 50:15
right? I almost wonder if it doesn't help you to like, take a large step back and say to yourself, can I really be mad at somebody in 1950, for how they treated women, when that's how it was done. And now that we've moved forward, we see, that's not the way to do that. Like, right, and you can see, like, we've made progress. And I guarantee you that in another 70 years, you'll look back on, you know, 2024, and think, Oh, I can't believe that's what we thought about those things. And then, you know, but then understand that along the way, there were these people's lives that were, you know, finite and shorter, given the grand scheme of things, and that they were stuck in one thinking pattern, and they probably were never gonna get out, or they'd grow a little bit by the time they got to the end. And their growth would rub off on their children a little bit, their children would start slightly ahead of them and grow a little more, and we keep going. And if you can take that idea, and flip it back on your, on your diabetes, then I think that's what I'm saying. I think you're faking it till you make it like you're like, I know, I'm not perfect, but I'm not bad. And I'm trying, and then level up, and then do it again. But don't judge yourself on what happened in 1950. Just go, Okay, three years ago, I didn't know to Pre-Bolus. But I know now. And let's level that up and keep going. And hopefully do that quickly enough that you avoid. You know, I mean, catastrophic, like health concerns, and so on. There's no answer, but that's the answer. It's all in there. Just listen to that over and over again until it makes sense to you. Or go see a therapist. And again, we're gonna call this episode watch Erica, watch Scott. Figure out common ideas. Sometimes when she looks at like, where's Eric and I see each other while we're doing this, it's sometimes I have there's this look on her face that I remember my mom like looking at me like, oh, look, he figured it out.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 52:09
It's an encouraging expression. Yeah, she's

Scott Benner 52:12
like dummies getting it. I see it happen. No, I know. You don't think that way?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 52:17
No, it is. It's it's fun to watch. Yeah, the process.

Scott Benner 52:20
I can never tell if you're like, I'm glad I have these conversations with him. Or if you think I should get on a podcast or somebody understands more.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 52:30
No, it's good stuff.

Scott Benner 52:31
Good. It's excellent. I appreciate doing this with you so much. Like, if I just sat down by myself and tried to think my way through this. I wouldn't get as far as I do as I do when I'm with you. Like I'm actually I'm getting tired. My I'm warm from thinking do you know what I mean by that? Yes. Yeah. Yes. My fingers overheating. It's hard. It was how hard is it not to look at me and think look how thin Scott looks. It's amazing.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 52:59
You really you really have Yeah, I mean, pretty soon. Not gonna see Yeah. Oh, no,

Scott Benner 53:04
that's not going to happen. But, but I'm still it's funny. Like talking about how your brain works. Like, I still like I'm focusing at looking at you because if I look at myself, I start going. I don't even look like myself. Again. You can feel like a you can feel yourself drifting away a little bit. And you can go oh, I should have done this sooner. Or how come I didn't figure this out earlier. But you know, to me like, shame, shame pop. Yeah, I feel ashamed immediately, actually. But I have felt that way. But then turned it. Then I just I just turned it on the pharmaceutical industry. I was like, well, they should have come up with that drug faster. But I did say to my wife the other day. Do you ever get sad that this drug didn't exist sooner? Because we're 50. Now like, what if they would have come out with these jell PS when we were 30? Like, would we have had a different life? Like, you know what I mean? Like, it's I'll never know,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 53:55
do you? Because I'll I asked that about CGM 's and automated insulin.

Scott Benner 53:59
I bet you do. Right? Yeah. Oh, I had I had that conversation with someone the other day. Guys had diabetes for like 45 years or something like that. And I asked him, Do you ever wonder about what your life would have been like if you were born now instead of that? And he said he tries not to think about it. Yes.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 54:16
And I think just the question you asked why, why didn't I do this sooner? Of course, as soon as you want it is you're starting to have a healthier mindset of how you view yourself think about others in the world. The old way of thinking shaming still wants to pop back in so it just still was trying to like ah, you should have coulda woulda

Scott Benner 54:34
as I felt it coming. I got in front of it. Because this isn't my fault. Like, I mean, honestly, Erica, I'm not a doctor, quite obviously. Obviously, I'm not educated it anyway, if you've been listening for the last 15 minutes, the GLP has made a big difference. I must have a GLP deficiency because I have not drastically changed how I eat. I had pizza this week. I just want to tell you I bought a pizza, ate at one night, got up the next day, had it for lunch and then had it for dinner a third day and I lost a pound this week. So like, you know, like, I'm not to say that I eat like that all the time. But this week, I wasn't eating very much. And I didn't have a flavor for anything. And I thought, Well, maybe it's better for that eat something than nothing. So I mean, I got this pizza, not the point. The point is, is that even on a GLP, I'll lose a pound this week, having eaten six slices of pizza spread out over three days, if I would have done that, without the GLP, I easily would have gained four or five pounds. And so it's not a thing I couldn't have. I couldn't have done it, the thing didn't exist. It's so funny how my brain was willing to leap over that truth. Like, this was not a thing you could have done. 20 years ago, Scott, this didn't exist 20 years ago, and I went right to why didn't I do this? Like I let go of all the reasons why to blame myself for a second. And I stopped myself. And I said, this isn't my fault. It's Eli, Lilly's fault for not making stuff down sooner, or whatever. I don't know. And I let it go. But there are people who will they get stuck in that pothole right there? Oh, it's my Yes. Yeah, and why?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 56:03
Why didn't Why didn't I make this change sooner? Why didn't like even you said the Pre-Bolus thing. I mean, I didn't Pre-Bolus For the first 25 years of my diabetes life. And, but I didn't know. And that's okay. And now and so like, when you as soon as you hear yourself going whitened. I coulda shoulda just say, Okay, where are you right now, in this moment, going back and doing a mindful exercise or doing the grounding that we've talked about, and bringing yourself to the present. And you can say, wow, look where I am today? Yeah, like the journey is right now.

Scott Benner 56:38
I talked to a guy the other day, who had had diabetes for over four decades. And he told me that in the last handful of years, I taught him to Pre-Bolus his meals.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 56:47
I honestly might have heard about people's for the first time through the podcast. Yeah, honestly, it's a crazy,

Scott Benner 56:52
it's such a, it's such a stupid idea. Like, like, like, I used to talk about it like this. I used to say, if I taught you to drive, and you never driven before, and I said, Okay, Eric, as we approach this curve, I only want you to push down on the brake halfway, and then go through the curve. And I said, if you were doing that, and you press down on the brake halfway and saw you were gonna go off the road into a stone, would you just hold the brake down halfway and go, it's what the guy said to do? Or would you push harder and say, I don't want to hit the rock off to the side of a road. But so many times with diabetes, we just go That's what they told us to do. I guess I'll crash. You know what I mean? And then I'll tomorrow I'm gonna get a new car and crash again. And they over and over again. And how much of that is mixed in with, like the godly way we see physicians. So the guy didn't tell me the lady didn't tell me. So it's obviously not a reason or a rule. So I'll just keep doing what they said over and over again. It's fascinating. It really is like, how do you not say to yourself, I give myself insulin at noon, I eat at noon, my blood sugar goes up. What if I gave it to myself? Five minutes before that, or 10 minutes before though? What would have happened? Again, that's me. If you jump scare me, I'm gonna punch you in the face. Like so when I saw the thing happening with the blood sugar's I was like, that's not right. Like, I always think that I always, by the way, I always think that's not right. And they don't know. But that's just, but that's an abundance of, I would call it self confidence. Yeah, I'm sure somebody else would call it narcissism. That's between me and my therapist. And, but, but I trust myself more than other people. But I also had to count on myself growing. And I had some wins along the way. So I had a reason to trust myself. I've made decisions in the past before that have gone well. So I think well, I'll try it again. I bought it worked out the last time. Let me see what Scott brain thinks this time. You don't I mean?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 58:49
Yeah. I wonder I'm sure. I know. We're totally now in a different topic, but not really. But with the the Pre-Bolus concept. I'm sure you and Jenny have talked about this before. Did did the Pre-Bolus. I mean, I used to Pre-Bolus with regular insulin. And it was like third way to give her injection 30 minutes before we ate. But then when we transitioned to cue melodic fast acting,

Scott Benner 59:14
Jenny blames the naming.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 59:15
Yeah. Is that what it is? Because I feel like then I got the concept just left. Yeah,

Scott Benner 59:20
they told us it was fast acting insulin. We stopped talking about the timing of the insulin. Yes, yeah. Okay. And you're old enough to remember that. Yeah. It's just a naming. Again, that's a that's a human mistake. It really is. Like when you listen to that Grand Rounds series that she and I are making. Everything that a doctor does that throws you on the wrong path is is usually a communication error. Just not knowing how to talk about things and see the implications of the words you're using. Super simple. I mean, nobody knows how to talk. So it's not super simple. Yeah, diagnosing it is simple. Like I see what's happening. I don't know how to get somebody to fix it. I also don't know how you It's funny because a scientist called it fast acting insulin, or faster acting insulin,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:00:05
because it was faster than that regular. Yeah, yeah. But again,

Scott Benner 1:00:09
a person who you should not put in charge of artistic endeavors. Like you don't you mean, like you don't ask a structural engineer to write a poem, because their brain doesn't work that way. So you should get the structural engineer to build the bridge, and then have an artist come in and call it something. Yeah, right. And because they know how to talk to people, and I know how to talk to people I don't like and I have enough understanding of diabetes, that I can take that understanding and put it into words that you can hear and pick up and use somewhere else. I think that's my whole value to this is that I had to teach myself diabetes because I couldn't let my daughter be unwell. And I'm a good storyteller. Like, I know how to talk. And it's not on purpose. Like I swear to you, here, I'm going to tell everybody something that will let them go. I sent you four topics. And I said, ladies choice. That was the extent of our preparation for today. Okay. And then you texted me a half an hour before going, Oh, I forgot to tell you, this is the thing I chose. I didn't read what you sent me. So when we popped on and started talking about it, as you hear me warming up in the first couple of minutes, it's the first time I've considered this today. So and then I start accessing all the stories I've heard on the podcast, and then trying to work my way through it. That's all you're hearing is, that's what you just heard for the last hour and Erica artfully pointing me at the truth about how people's minds work to keep me on that path, which is I'm assuming what you? Yeah. Which was, I'm assuming what you would do if you were my therapist, this you would keep going, Hey, look up, dummy. Keep walking in this direction. You only go back to the theme and the goal right now it's beautiful. Anyway, if anybody heard this and doesn't believe in therapy, they you're not paying attention. Erica forsyth.com. What are your states that you can help people remotely? California?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:02:04
Oregon, Utah, Florida and Vermont. Oh, Vermont. Sticking? Yes. Vermont sticking nicer now? Yes. Good. Good. Good. And

Scott Benner 1:02:14
if you live local to Erica, she will tell you where she's at. And you can sit with her and do this.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:02:18
Yes, I'm leaving office in Pasadena in person, but also virtual as well. Again,

Scott Benner 1:02:25
Erica forsyth.com. If you don't see what she did this hour with me and think that could help me to again, I don't think you're paying attention because I couldn't have put these thoughts together without you today.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:02:37
So Wow. Thank you, Scott. Seriously, nice compliment.

Scott Benner 1:02:42
Oh, hurricane. You know, I've had a couple of therapists on here before I landed on you. You're the right one. Don't you worry. I saw what was going on. I paid attention. I was like, yeah, good conversation, but not right for me. And then I pick through and I was like, Erica works for me. And you know, the big, I'll let you go. But the first reason that I thought that about you is that if I tried to generalize you wouldn't let me when we were first together. Like I would try to generalize think to be entertaining, and you'd be like, No, I was like, Oh, she pushed it back for we're trying to have fun here. And then I was like, Oh, I remember. I was like, she'll be good to talk to you about this stuff. So anyway, I love you. So thank you very much. Oh,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:03:21
thanks, God. I appreciate that. Bye. Oh, gosh.

Scott Benner 1:03:26
There you go. That's perfectly a blessing. Don't please.

I want to thank the ever since CGM for sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast. Learn more about its implantable sensor, smart transmitter and terrific mobile application at ever since cgm.com/juicebox. Get the only implantable sensor for long term wear get ever since. A huge thanks to the contour next gen blood glucose meter for sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast. Learn more and get started today at contour next one.com/juice box. A huge thank you to one of today's sponsors, G voc glucagon, find out more about Chico Capo pen at G voc glucagon.com Ford slash juicebox. you spell that GVOKEGLUC AG o n.com. Forward slash juicebox. If you're not already subscribed or following in your favorite audio app, please take the time now to do that. It really helps the show and get those automatic downloads set up so you never miss an episode. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast. The diabetes variable series from the Juicebox Podcast goes over all the little things that affect your diabetes that you might not think about true Travel and exercise the hydration and even trampolines. juicebox podcast.com Go up in the menu and click on diabetes variables. Lots of people with autoimmune seem to have trouble with their thyroid. And that's why I've made the defining thyroid series juicebox podcast.com Click on defining thyroid the menu to find out more. The episode you just heard was professionally edited by wrong way recording. Wrongwayrecording.com