#1059 Parenting: Building Positive Communication

November 9, 2023Scott Benner

Scott and Erika talk about building positive communication. They discuss reflective listening and the recurring reasons behind miscommunication.

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Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 1059 of the Juicebox Podcast. It took me four times to record that correctly

Erica Forsyth is back today as we continue on our parenting series. While you're listening, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. Also, while you're listening, remember that if you live in California or a number of other states, Erica Forsythe is available to be your therapist. Check her out at Erica forsythe.com Speaking of dot coms cozy earth.com use the offer code juice box at checkout save 40% off for your sheets your towels and your beautiful comfortable clothing and ag one drink ag one.com/juice box get five free travel backs in the year supply of vitamin D with your first purchase at my link. Check out the defining diabetes bold beginnings Pro Tip series type two Pro Tip series all kinds of great content from the Juicebox Podcast about your diabetes is available. If you would like to see lists of them go to juicebox podcast.com. Go up to the top to the menu it will take you all through it. Or if you're in the private Facebook group, head over to the feature tab where you'll see lists of all the series

this episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the contour next gen blood glucose meter. Absolutely fantastic, incredibly accurate. Wonderful Second Chance test strips. What am I talking about the contour next gen contour next.com/juicebox But if you haven't heard the remastered Pro Tip series that goes from Episode 1000 to 1026 There are special contour next gen ads just in the Pro Tip series. And I'm just going to tell you go over to the Pro Tip series. Check out those ads for the contour next gen because there's a special link in there. If you're a US resident and this is while supplies last so do not dilly dally, absolutely free meter. Just go to the website, fill out the thing. Boom, here comes the meter. today's podcast is also sponsored by better help, you will save 10% off your first month of therapy at my link better help.com/juicebox Welcome back. We're doing Episode Two today of our parenting series that does not have a title yet.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 2:40
So yeah, it might just be the the parenting series, actually called

Scott Benner 2:44
the parenting series without a title. But last week for Episode One, we talked about different parenting styles. So if you want to go back to that episode, tell me what they are again,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 2:56
authoritarian, authoritative, uninvolved, slash neglectful, and permissive.

Scott Benner 3:05
And we did a nice conversation that discuss the four of those reasons why they might be sometimes negative or positive? Or how to kind of see it in yourself if you're doing it. And today, we're going to do Oh, I like this one. building positive communication. Yes, this is great. I'm going to tell you, I think that most of the problems I've experienced in my life with other people are in some way, shape or form based on a miscommunication. So yes, it can't be It can't be stressed enough how important this is. When people come into you? Do they always come singularly? Or do they come as family sometimes,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 3:46
actually, both, I will have often one caregiver reach out with the intent of me supporting their child or teen. Often it's really beneficial to weave in some sessions with the parent and the child. I think it would be amazing to have more, you know, parent, whole family sessions would be wonderful. That is logistically challenging. A lot of the time. Yes.

Scott Benner 4:15
So when you get them in a room together, do you sort of sit back and watch the dynamic? Or do you ask questions? Is it a mix of that? Like how do you get to how do you get to the part where you have can make an assessment about what's happening?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 4:31
Yes, oftentimes if I have a parent and a child in the room, often I have heard from both of them individually of the of quote, what is the problem? And then it's really beneficial for me to see the dynamic play out. Where you know, is one person cutting off the other is one person misunderstanding the other? Are they really aligned and understand validating each other and prac dissing reflective listening, we'll get into some of these terms. So yes, it's I often like to see and observe their communication and their dynamic play out so that I can help intervene.

Scott Benner 5:13
Do people assess the other person's intention? Well, normally or does is that the basis of a bad communication? Like you just don't understand? Maybe, maybe our maybe our speech styles are different, or one person is like very black and white minded, and the other person speaks an allegory or something like that. Like, is there confusion there? Like with how people talk? I guess my question is, do you find that mostly people's intentions are good?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 5:40
Yes, yes. I think the well, they're a they're in the room. They're seeking, they're seeking help they have some awareness that there's a problem, right? So there's already that they're leaning into, hey, we want to we want to address something, or maybe sometimes we're not quite sure what the problem is. And oftentimes, maybe it's an assumption of, you know, assuming what is wrong, or assuming how we're miscommunicate. There's oftentimes there's assumptions that are interfering with the appropriate communication.

Scott Benner 6:10
Yeah. And so that's kind of how you think of it is its assumptions, like, I hear one thing, but my assumption is, you mean this, or you said it because of this, even though you're not telling me. So it is kind of a human thing to expect that the person you're communicating with is, has some sort of an ulterior motive that you're not aware of, is that right?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 6:30
Yes. There's when you just practice some really good reflective listening in terms of you just I just said something, and you said, No, I hear you saying assumptions. That was really, that's really good. So is there an ulterior motive?

Scott Benner 6:46
Well, not if there is, but do people assume there is like, Do people just assume that they're not being told the whole truth that something's being held back? And that, does that cause a little bit of the problem, because I think the personality that just believes everybody? They're not going to be upset by anything you say? Because they're just going to take you on face value and move on. But if I'm the person who's like, well, what are they really mean by that? Or what are they trying to accomplish? I'm always trying to work out what the other person is up to, then I could be putting on them thoughts and ideas that they don't have? And I don't know, it just it seems to me like, it shouldn't be that hard to say what you mean, for someone to hear it? And for you to absorb it. But it's it's one of the most difficult things on the planet? You don't

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 7:34
I mean? Absolutely.

Scott Benner 7:37
I don't even know what my question is, like, really, like, just like, what people are gonna get. Everyone listening has a misunderstanding going on with someone right now. And they genuinely probably believe that they're on the right side of that disagreement. But both people think they're on the right side of that disagreement. So either they don't, you don't want to hear the other person or you're not interested in the other person worry, you steadfastly believe that you're coming from a good place. So that must mean they're not coming from a good place. That's the assumption I think is that's it took me a minute

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 8:14
that I'm right, and you're wrong. Yeah. That either my belief is right, or my position on this point is right, and you're wrong. And so there, that's where people get into a you know, they're frozen, right? They can't they can't move past whatever the argument is, if one person is believing they're right, and the other person's wrong, then guarantee that the other person is believing the same, same, right? So they're not going to budge.

Scott Benner 8:42
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Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 12:08
I don't know, props to that person for having that awareness. Wouldn't it be great if we entered into a conversation saying, Hey, I leaned this way in a conversation, I can speak over you I can be rude. I can be Curt, you know.

Scott Benner 12:20
That's exactly what I was thinking. Actually, I actually said, tell them that, like, just say that, because I think it fixes the whole problem. You mean, you still need the person on the other side to understand their shortcomings or whatever. But is there? I mean, you've done this for a long time, right? Is there a thing like a central thought you have about why people have trouble communicating? Like if I asked you, like, boil it down to a thought?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 12:47
I think people have trouble communicating, because they are two things. I don't know if I could do one reason two things, they are either not listening, or they are misunderstanding what the person is trying to communicate. Or the person is not communicating clearly. So three things, right. Right. So there's, there's the as we've talked about before, there's the sender and the receiver. And if the sender isn't being clear, and there's interference, the receivers not going to hear the message correctly, if the receiver is thinking about what they're going to do tonight, or they're irritated about the thing that just happened 10 minutes before, even if the sender is communicating, clearly, the receivers not going to hear it accurately. So the sender and the receiver have their own stuff going on. And then there's the delivery. And they all have to be in alignment for the message to be delivered and received correctly.

Scott Benner 13:37
But if we can't get them in alignment, what do I do on my side to make it okay, like, so I can tell you what I do. I don't know if it's right or not. I have this basic feeling that when I'm dealing with somebody, so there's two different types of people that I'm either dealing with the person who I have knowledge of, or I'm dealing with the person I don't have knowledge of, when I deal with a person I have knowledge of it is always my assumption that they are coming from a good place. So even if I don't understand what they're saying, or even if it doesn't make sense, I never jumped to what the hell's wrong with you, I always say with, I must just not be understanding this correctly, or they must not be saying it correctly. But overall, I've been with this person for 20 years, 15 years, I've known this person for 30 years. I know their intentions are good. I just assumed their intentions are good. And then with just that one act, it all goes away. You know, and when I'm dealing with a stranger who I can't make the assumption that they're good, I just give them the benefit of the doubt. And by giving them the benefit of the doubt it releases me from having to judge them. Does that make sense?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 14:50
Well, yes, and releases you from heartache or defensiveness or attacking or reacting, right you're you are responding when you are entering into a conversation from that grounded place of they're doing the best they can, right or they have they have good intentions or they, you know, are trying to communicate something, you are not going to automatically react in an inappropriate way. My best

Scott Benner 15:15
example would be you could live next door to somebody forever, be lovely people have nothing but good experiences with them. Been there for three and a half years, great people, etc, then all of a sudden election comes up, and they throw a sign in their front yard. And it disagrees with your idea. And you think what's wrong with them? If you just continue to think they've got thoughts and ideas that are different than mine? They're still the same people that were before because we all say that all the time, right? Like, what's the what's the thing you hear him like the political realm all the time, like the assumption is, most people are well meaning and probably fairly centric with their thinking, like, great, most people are probably not real far one way or the other. And that we all sort of have the same concerns, you know, freedom, liberty, food, shelter, health care, that kind of stuff. But as soon as we get down deep, and we're looking for something to argue about, it's super easy to go, Well, there's a difference. I'll focus on that difference. Taking it out of politics and bringing it back into a personal conversation. The minute you it's wrong, the minute you feel like something they said is wrong. It's like an attack point. And now you're not. Can you hear that thunder? Yes. Oh, it's gonna be the last last episode ever. When you're in the middle of that, I think that people defend their feelings. And I think people get confused with their ideas and who they are. I think they commingle their ideas with who they are, oh, if that makes sense or not. And then they're that human thing comes in, I want to win, I want to be right. I want to be on the right side of this. Like Bob, even even when it's you looking across at somebody you've been married to for 20 years, for some reason, you're trying to beat them in this conversation. It's ridiculous are your kids who you would 10 minutes ago, have maybe jumped in front of a car to help now you're in the middle of their bedroom, saying something absolutely ridiculous to them, because you don't want to be whatever, like wrong, or I don't know, you gotta let it go.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 17:21
That's all I'm saying? Well, and it's the ability to either let it go or enter into the conversation from a really stable posture is dependent on all the other things that happened to that night, that morning, at work with whoever you interacted with your past trauma, right. So all of that is at play in every touchpoint that we have when we communicate with our partners, our friends, or our co workers. And it's hard, it's hard to constantly be in tune with how we're feeling as we communicate. But the first step is yes, just having that awareness of how where am I? Where am I today, as I enter into this conversation, without attacking, responding,

Scott Benner 18:05
it's interesting how quickly someone can get lit up and let go of all that stuff. You know, like the, this is just verbal, obviously. But you can even see how that path leads to like abusive behavior to like, how do you let go in that moment of, that's the person like, that's my person right there. And now suddenly, everything you're doing is acting like they're a non consequential punching bag. And it's really, really something so. So we know this is important, right to have healthy communication, know how to resolve conflict. But that's not easy either. Right? We don't get taught how to resolve conflict at all.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 18:45
Correct. So I think the we enter into a conflictual conversation based on the things that we just talked about, right, like the misunderstanding, based where are we at in our own mood level. And prior to even getting to talking about the conflict resolution, one of the easiest ways to make sure we're understanding one another is to reflect back and it's super simple, at its core, and it can be feel really silly, sometimes it's something they teach in all grad schools for psychology therapy, there's reflective listening so you say I want to eat an orange today and then you would respond back I hear that you want an eat an orange today, you're starting very simple to then bring it into when you're communicating with really complex thoughts and feelings. The person that is the receiver can respond by so this is what I hear you say is Am I hearing you correctly? And you can do it written you know, you can do reflective, you know, written response. You can also do it verbally. It's hard to do on a car constant basis. But when you start to feel yourself those like, you know, emotions rising, your heart is racing, you want to attack and respond. And I know I know that feeling right when you just want to prove your point. Okay, we they say, Okay, wait, let's take a minute, is this what your is? This is what I hear you say, is that correct? And that can prevent so much conflict, but it is hard to do consistently. Yeah, it really is.

Scott Benner 20:26
From your personal perspective, why is it difficult for you when it when it is?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 20:30
Because you have to be checking in with your own, like your own body or regulation? Are you feeling dysregulated? When you're in a heated argument, whether it's with, you know, parent, child or partner to partner, and you're wanting to prove your point, you're tired, you're stressed, maybe you're hungry, maybe you have low or high blood sugar, you're just kind of done. Maybe it's a conversation you've had over and over again, whether it's about whatever it is, it's really hard to step back and say, Okay, this is what I hear you say, and then the person might say this, that's what I'm saying. And you still might disagree with that. So then once you clarify, okay, I'm understanding the message, then we move into, okay, how are we going to solve this problem or this conflict? But before doing that, you really want to get clear of like, what it is that we are having this? What are we arguing about?

Scott Benner 21:25
I, I will share something personal with you. So if I'm having a disagreement with my wife, I should say when it definitely happens when I'm having a disagreement, or she and I are disagreeing about something. If the situation is that I'm coming from, I'm saying something that she's misunderstanding, I don't care that She misunderstands me. But I literally get hurt if she if her misunderstanding highlights that she thinks I would do a thing I wouldn't do. I don't know how to put that in better words, but when she if she if what she's saying, makes me feel like she thinks poorly of me. I find it very upsetting. And then it becomes incredibly important for me to explain myself, because I don't want her to think I would do something like that. And then after that hurt part goes, I'm angry that after giving 30 years of my life to our union, she would think that off me. That's maybe one of the hardest things for me to deal with in a personal relationship. Now, if I'm being a bad person, I just go home and I put my head down. Right. But But if if I've just said something and you've misunderstood it. My first thought is what I said. The second part, though, is really the part that I don't know, it lights me up inside, like, I guess on a simple way, how could you think I would think that or do that? Right? It's up? Yeah. Don't you know me better than that, after all this time? It's hard on me.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 22:56
She's probably maybe she's she came at it in that conversation. Maybe she's had a hard day and is not thinking clearly and slowly and is making these quick assumptions. But even though she knows who you are at your core, but this is really common to Riley because we're you know that your partner is honest, and hardworking. But maybe in a moment, you make a comment saying, Oh, you're lazy. And then the partner thinks no, but the one of my core values is that I work really hard. But maybe the partner who accused the other one of being lazy, is feeling tired themselves or is irritable because have they gotten to a traffic?

Scott Benner 23:37
Timeout think sometimes she's just trying to burn my ass and she picks the thing she knows is gonna get to me the worst. I think she's like, this argument is going nowhere. Let's just piss him off instead.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 23:50
Well, you know, that happens in relationships, too.

Scott Benner 23:52
Yeah. And I don't think it's a conscious decision. I don't think someone sits there and thinks this has been going on too long. Why don't I make him crazy? When you get into a conflict? And you have to like, like you said, it's gonna be hard to stop. But I mean, we're talking about parenting specifically. I want to start by by helping by sharing something that a 22 year old just told me recently in an interview, that this guy was talking about how growing up whole timing he thinks he started smoking weed when he was a sophomore in high school. And his father wrote him about it and wrote him and wrote him and wrote them and then once he was a legal age, he realized his that smoked weed too. And they were now like, not doing it together specifically, but he's like, now it became clear and he said that the hypocrisy stuck with him. You could tell that's where he got caught. Like, how could you have been giving me so much trouble about something for so long about a thing? You do? So I don't care if we doesn't matter. It's not the conversation. It's hypocrisy. Kids smell that a mile away. And I think it's the damaging when you're hypocritical with your kids, but it's hard not to do.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 25:06
It's, it is so, so challenging. Because if we're thinking about, yes, you're right, like we decide, could it be like cursing

Scott Benner 25:15
or something smaller?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 25:18
something smaller. I mean, even like, let's say brushing your teeth, or I'm trying to think of like a behavior, but it also could be something that you communicate, and you're trying to raise your child up to have these, you know, good habits. And then they learn. I'm just kind of I'm practicing some reflective listening here to make sure I understand you to say, you know, the child realizes, wow, this whole time you were you were training and teaching and parenting me to not do this thing, I realized you're doing it. I think in those in that moment, it would be amazing if that child now you know, adult child could go back to the parent to have some conversations around that, like, Dad, what what was this? What is this about? But there is a lot of pain and violation of trust. In that space.

Scott Benner 26:06
I think the only way to stop that is you can't hide who you are, whether it's in a conversation, or if it's physically or like an action. And I get you like, I want to I'll use a bigger, more bombastic thing. Like if you know the trouble of heroin addiction, and you see your kid moving towards heroin, I get that you're going to be hypocritical, but there's a way to not be hypocritical. Still, you can still say, I see that you're going towards this thing. I've made that mistake. Here are the things that it's done to me, not just say don't do that. Or don't be like me like that. That's too simplistic you because that also children don't. When you point something out about your kids, that is a trait of yours, or a trait. Here's where I've seen it the worst. Let's say you got a couple of kids and one of your kids has some of the moms trade some of the kids has some of the dad's trades, you should never say to the other one, oh my God, you're just like your father. Because what are you saying? You're saying you don't like my dad, or at least this part of him? And you don't like me? That's, and that's not what you're that's not what you think. And that's just not what you're trying to communicate. But that is exactly what you're saying. So you have to everything has to be explained that things take more words than people want to use, I think is, is that a fair way of like, Yeah, you can't just blurt things out, you have to be complete. I feel this way. This thing worries me because I know I've done it already, too. And I'm hoping to help you avoid this issue. There. Now you're not a hypocrite.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 27:48
Right? Yes, yes. I mean, we, the best parenting is through modeling what you want your child to emulate and replicate, right? Like we put on our seatbelt. And we model that for our children. And because we tell them to put their seatbelt on and we all want to be safe. And so applying that the modeling, it's okay, we are not perfect people. We are not perfect parents. And we might make choices that we know are not healthy for us on a daily basis, when it's developmentally appropriate to include your child into that conversation, I think is really a healthy mode of communication to say, Hey, I struggle with this. You know, I want to eat Red Vines all day, but we shouldn't because it's a no that's a random candy thing. I was gonna say chocolate because I love chocolate. Like we want it you know, it's okay to say to their child like, Hey, I struggle with this too. Whatever it is, and I'm I'm trying I'm trying to help correct this habit by this, this and this and let's do this together. I'm not

Scott Benner 28:52
saying I don't do it. I have listened in the funniest way I can tell you I've turned to my daughter a times and gone hey, look, I'm already married. If you want to break somebody's balls, go find your own guy. But I got a lady doing it for me already. I don't need you to. I can't take this from Twitter from France. But when but when my wife or either my wife or my daughter are being constructive and telling me something about myself, I don't feel that way. Right? Like it's it's okay then. But I'm sorry. I gotta loop back around. Conflict Management. Yes. I mean, we kind of aren't we're not at the same time. So you have to be aware like with anything, you know, the conflict can come at any time. And that's a thing. I think we all just know like, you're going along having the greatest day and all of a sudden you're in you're like how did we get here? What is happening? I just tried to go fishing to get a glass of water. Like you know, so you do need to be aware it could happen anytime. The list I'm looking at is from Canada, Canadians are lovely. So this must be right. Proactive. They're saying here like Big Think about preventing problem. ones not just how to resolve them, like, how do you avoid them to begin with. And then a lot of stuff we've talked about already, you know, try to understand all sides of the situation. initiate dialogue. This one I found very helpful when I was looking at know when to ask for help. And I tried to do that, if I get lost in a conversation, you when you start arguing in circles, you almost don't remember what it is you're talking about anymore. Like out there, I'll stop. And I go, I'm sorry. I don't I know this sounds wrong. I don't even know what we're talking about anymore. Like you get, like, please just give me a thing to answer right now. Because I feel like I'm, I feel like I'm being shot out from 10 sides, and I'm just babbling trying to come up with something that's gonna make you happy. And I don't want to just make you happy. I'd like to actually, you know, assess what our options are here and do something about it.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 30:52
Yes, I think that's kind of on a, a broader scale to kind of when you're in that looping, and that happens. You're just you're arguing and then you're going on to the next point about whatever household duty and you're just kind of snowballing into this big fight to say, hey, let's take a step back. What are what was, why did we start this, what or I felt this way about something and you felt this way, like kind of going back to the starting like a reset in the reflective listening? I think in that space of timing. Maybe you guys have got it's you've there's been conflict for so long, whether it's been that day or weeks or months to say we need to either we need help, or we need to reset, but then when you're having when you're having the conversation, when you are feeling either wronged or your partner's feeling wronged or your child, it's so helpful to set up the right time to say okay, are you in a good spot to talk about this issue that we've been that we've been arguing about? And this This works for with your children, five year olds, you know it because we as parents, oftentimes we think, hey, there's a problem, we need to fix it. I know I am in that mentality often. And to remember, our children, our partners, ourselves, we all need to have a fair chance to engage in it in a really healthy conversation. So to check in on the timing,

Scott Benner 32:15
took me a long time to figure it out. I know, I've shared this with you in the past, but because I came from a divorced family. When there's conflict, I used to feel very pressured to resolve it immediately. Yes, and that's normally not okay. Sometimes people just need a little space before you can come back together. It's a it's a great, great thought. So how do people when kids are what they are like, right? Like I don't know, if you all are have younger kids are older kids, you there's a moment they get to a certain age, they just disappear. They're like in their rooms, they become more private and like that, and that lasts for a number of years. But with all the different reasons why it's hard for an adult to talk to a child. What are some ways to make sure that that those lines stay open? Because that,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 33:05
yes. So having an established I know this is particularly challenging, right? As they do become as children become teens, they want their independence, autonomy space, but to maintain the open lines of communication. We that's they want it to, right, I think there's oftentimes as parents, we can assume that the oh, they just they don't want to talk to us. They're going to just, you know, fight back or but I think what I hear a lot from teens is they still want, you know, with an appropriate level of checking in or a validation is a wow, I see you, you know, I'm thinking specifically around the diabetes P cycle. I see. Wow, this looks like a must have been a really hard day. How are you feeling? Whether you're looking at your blood sugars or not just how looks like it was a really great day, how are you feeling? Or just having those moments? I think they also can be they can be brief, as to maintain that open line of communication. They don't have to be as long. But this having a small checkpoints having routines, if they are open to it establishing when is your when are you going to have those check in conversations? Is it via text? Is it at dinner? Is it nighttime? Is it in the morning is you know, whatever it is. But I think asking engaging your child and inviting them into the conversation of like, hey, what do you want our relationship to look like? Without assuming they want it one way or the other or you're putting your assumptions on them?

Scott Benner 34:43
It also conveys a lot with those actions doesn't have to be these long conversations just asking somebody and my son was not feeling well the other day and a couple hours after he told me that I sent him a note. I said, I'm just checking on you, that's all and he said I'm doing It was like, Okay, I don't know if he's really doing good or not. But the point is, is that he knew that he didn't feel well. He shared that with me. I remembered it. And it meant enough to me to ask him about it later. I think that's the important part. Like people could get stuck on the, the important part is that he feels better Mike. Yeah, okay. He's 23 he's gonna feel better. He's gonna go to the hospital like I like I'm not in control of that, right. But the rest of it. I am in control with like, you're doing great. Or at the end of the day, last night, Arden has been commuting to back to college and she's got a broken up into a couple days, she drove 300 Miles yesterday. It's the first time she's ever gone that far on her own. At the end of the night, I just said, Hey, you did great. And and while your blood sugar's were terrific. I don't know what you did. But that was great. Now, here's the thing. Maybe she didn't do anything. Right? Like, hey, algorithms just running and it just worked great. And she might be like, Oh, I never looked at that, you know, like, but she still gets the leave that that momentary interaction with, Hey, I've done a thing. I accomplished it. And I it sounds like I did a good job. Cool. Roll on, you know what I mean. And those are the little things that ended up in. My son had an issue a couple of weeks ago. And he, he called us he was having a conflict of his own a personal conflict of his own. And he called us to tell us about it. And like, we talked about it for a little bit. We listened to him, we offered some thoughts, you know, didn't push him off of the way he felt. I'm like, just like, here's our perspective of this. And we got off the phone. And I said to my wife, how great is that? And she goes, what? Like he's having a problem with it. I'm like, no, no, like, how great is he called us? Like is that that's the great part. Like the rest of it's all bullshit. Like like that. That's what happened, right? He'll have a conflict, it'll come back, it'll fix whatever, who cares? We're not going to fix it for him. He thought to call us I was like, you're not paying attention.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 36:53
That's a win. Yeah, we won. Yeah. Well, it's a win. It's a win in your relationship, right, that do have that established trust, and, and safety. Like he felt safe and reaching out to you guys. So that's,

Scott Benner 37:07
and that's my point about when I hear about keeping lines of communication open, I think people hear those things, and think you're going to rattle off these 10 bullet points. And if they just do these things, then they are going to have open lines of communication. I don't think it's that at all, I think it's about creating, somebody just used this phrase with me, damnit, I'm gonna forget it a psychologically safe space, or something like that, like a place where when your brain says, I need help, it goes to you. And that's the communication. They don't have to be words, you could sit and put your arm around somebody that's still communicating, anyway, okay.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 37:46
Yes, yes, it's about the relationship. And we, it's hard to maintain that given all of the factors of life, but creating that space of trust, and dependency in a in a really healthy developmentally appropriate way. It takes time and effort. And it's hard to do all the time.

Scott Benner 38:07
So the next thing here on our list that I think is really important that is apologizing, like as a parent, especially, I mean, but in general, but it's for me, when I learned how to apologize to my kids, or to somebody else. To me, it's about like ego, it's about letting go of like that. Whatever the hell that is. That doesn't want you to be wrong, you know. So, I mean, my wife forced me to do it. She's like, you have to go apologize to her now. Oh, my God dammit. Okay. And like, and like in your head. I used to say, like, but no, I did the right thing. Like, you know, this was important. We can't care that she doesn't like it. And my wife's like, No, we can't care that she doesn't like it. But we don't have to fight with her about it. Like, and this went the wrong way. You have to go apologize to her. So I learned how to do that. It's very uncomfortable.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 39:03
It is uncomfortable. And it's also a piece of repair, right? You're repairing the relationship. And maybe you did. Whether it's you set or did something that made the child feel uncomfortable, or you truly did make, you know, if you made a mistake in how you communicated it. Not only are you repairing the relationship by apologizing, you're again going back to the modeling piece of like, Hey, I'm not perfect. And I'm in a model to my child, that it's okay to go ask, you know, to say I'm sorry, or ask for forgiveness. Like what a beautiful gift you can give your child in that in that space. It's a kind of really addressing to really key issues in that space. Like that's, that's great.

Scott Benner 39:50
It's so hard in the beginning, especially if you don't feel like you did anything wrong. And it's so then that means you can't you haven't step back far enough to reflect on the situation. See what you've done. So now you have to see that sometimes you're seeing it while you're saying it. And you're apologizing. Every it's just I didn't grow up that way, like, the way I grew up was I told you to do it, do it. That's that. And, and there is part of you that goes, well, I'm alive. And I'm successful. And I'm like, maybe that works. Like, maybe I'm supposed to not care. And I want to point out, I don't think you should be sitting around apologizing to your kids constantly. Like, you know, oh, I bumped into you in the kitchen. I'm so sorry. You know, like, that kind of stuff. I just mean, when you do something wrong, when you're hurt someone's feelings, or a thing didn't go the way you meant for it to. Or even sometimes when something's happening to them, that's got nothing to do with you. You can go in and say I, I am so sorry, this is happening to you. But you know, and go from there. You know, I'm not in control this but still and here are the things I am in control of that I did wrong. I shouldn't have done those things. I'm going to try better next time. I might not get it right. Next time. Please. Call me out. And again, if I do it again. Eventually, that gets easy. It's just did the first couple times you feel like an idiot like I sorted. Yeah. So your ego, right, that makes you feel that way? Yes.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 41:15
Ego and, and maybe flirting with that the mentality of you know, as you were sharing growing up in, you grew up in a very probably authoritarian type of parenting style, because I said so. Right? Because I said, so. And that's in that a No means no, and all those things. And I think one of the most common opportunities where we can exercise, you know, asking for, you know, saying I'm sorry, is when we start to yell, because that, you know, the kid starts to yell, your teen starts to yell, and then you get heightens. And so you yell back as the parent, and then you're both yelling, and then you find yourself yelling with your eight year old and like, what are what is happening?

Scott Benner 41:57
You don't know what life's all about that you've told that nine year old to go themselves?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 42:07
Yeah, that's, yeah, you need to go put yourself in a timeout, for sure. And I mean, I've been parents do that. And I think that's a great you know, if you do find like your kid, you are just beyond your, your at max capacity in terms of all you can handle and you're yelling at, you can't say you know what, Mommy needs to go get yourself in a timeout and like, do your breathing and do your what all the things you need to do. And then you go back and say, You know what, you still can't go to this thing, or whatever you was, you're arguing about like you still, I still believe that you can't do this thing or have this thing. But I'm sorry that I yelled. Like the delivery.

Scott Benner 42:47
I think the Go finding space for yourself is important. Because you know, your kids don't know that you're really just 10 years removed from being like, I don't know, a girl in a parking lot of a Burger King making out with boys and smoking weed. And now all of a sudden, they're looking at it, you're looking for answers. And you're like, I am barely on top of this. Yes, you sometimes you want to look at your kids and be like, You have no idea how amazed I am this house is warm. Okay. Thanks. So you're asking a lot here. But we don't have time. Like you don't have time, every day that you don't communicate well, with a child. It's not a day loss. It's much more than that loss, you don't realize it while it's happening. That's why That's why that joke is like, oh, they'll talk about it in therapy. Like, you know, I'm just gonna keep messing up day after day. But you don't have to keep messing up day after day. Like you could mitigate a little bit. You're not going to be perfect. But again, mitigation would be nice. Like, what if we cleaved off 30% of your stupidity? That's an embarrassing, like, you know, and, and you know, that that sort of stuff is, you know, joking aside, but pulling that thought together. I do think that's sort of what happens sometimes is that people really aren't, it's the best, not kept secret of people who are older. Like, I'm not that much smarter than I was 30 years ago. I really, you know, I the only thing grounding me is the responsibility I feel for my loved ones. Like if those kids and that lady downstairs didn't exist, I'd better show like, like, I just end if I had like an income. Oh my god, what a disaster I'd be. Right. Right. So and so that's still like, I didn't go to some class to be an adult. You know what I mean? Like, I'm just doing the best I can. I think sometimes people can't quell that side of themselves. So when they're dealing with their kids, they just like turn a key and shut it off and turn into like, whatever version they think a parent supposed to look like. And that is that can be a mistake. i That's my opinion, but you know, there's a way to be you and parent like you guys know me pretty well. I'm a moron. But my kids are pretty well adjusted, like gang so you know, like I found a way to be myself and at the same time, in appropriate situations, do the things that the person in charge is supposed to be doing without hopefully making them, you know, never want to talk to me again. But so far so good.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 45:08
Yes, yes, it's hard to do that, as you're talking about, like, you know yourself, you are, you are so much more than a parent. But that's, that is a big role, right. And layering on top of that, again, the game about the diabetes management, I know one of the common topics that we're hearing a lot of parents talk about is the mental load of life of their, their work, household duties. And then, and then we're thinking we're already at max capacity. And then we now have to deal with our child's pump change or site change, or we have to deal with this argument with our partner. So just recognizing how much you're carrying as an in all your other parts of life, really, is like the first step in increasing that awareness of how am I parenting? Like, how are you managing and holding yourself as you're, you know, a, as an employee, or as a good friend, or as a partner, and you're in your parent, it's that you're all these different parts. And having that awareness of how much one is influencing the other, it's really hard. It's hard work and to practice that empathy and grounding and slowing everything down. It's a it's a process.

Scott Benner 46:27
Hey, guys, just jumping in to remind you that one of our sponsors, BetterHelp is offering 10% off your first month of therapy, when you use my link, better help.com forward slash juicebox. That's better. H e l p.com. Forward slash juicebox. Better help is the world's largest therapy service. It is 100% online boasts over 25,000 licensed and experienced therapists, and you can talk to them however you want text chat phone or on video, you can actually message your therapist at any time and schedule live sessions when it's convenient for you. Better help.com forward slash juicebox save 10% On your first month. So from a practical standpoint, I find that turning diabetes tasks into breathing is that is a mistake. What I mean by that before that gets convoluted, you don't think about breathing, it just happens. And there are things that are going to happen around diabetes all the time, I tried to turn them into breathing, they're just things that happen. I don't have to be 100% engaged in them. And that's me 17 years into this I'm on day one, you're going to be fairly focused on trying to figure out a Bolus for something. But as time goes on, and you become better at it, to try to put it into the I don't know, just kind of mix it into the background a little bit, it's just the thing that happens. I've said before, like you don't approach a door and think I'm going to reach my hand up now grab that knob and turn it, you just your hand goes up, you open the door and you're through the other side, there's a moment when you'll be able to get diabetes to that spot. That's very helpful. Because I think what happens is like those pump changes come out like and now there's, you know, I have one right in front of me like, no, like a vial of insulin in front of you, right. And now it's this medical thing, and it's on the table and it's next to this device. And then your brain starts going, oh my god, I can't believe this, she's got to stick that on her leg. And this isn't fair. And before you know it, we spiral right away into how horrible all this is. I just don't, I don't give these things that agency over me. I just I deal with them like they're breathing or open a door. And then they're gone. And that's it, I don't keep them in my mind. And I don't dwell on them while I'm doing them. And I think that can be helpful to avoid that. Because there is mental load, like right, there's a lot going on. And me if you just stop and think about it, if you're in a family of four, you have a relationship with your spouse, your parents, the people you work with, you don't think about it, you walk outside to get the trash you got this dance you do with your neighbor, when you see them, like you know, they mean like you're you ever you have a relationship with One child, another child, you might be responsible for the kitty litter. And then on top of all that who's keeping this place safe and warm and dry, and who's buying shirts and, you know, I want to have sex and like, you know, I'm hungry. And I'd love to play Playstation by myself for an hour or one more time Malay like or, you know, I'd like to go shopping and nobody bother me or, you know, what's the thing you hear people all the time, like, I haven't taken a shot by myself in 10 years, like like, you know, like, like that kind of thing like it all that's happening at once and then somebody comes in and puts his vial of insulin in front of you goes, hey, don't forget that your youngest kid has diabetes. Like think about that too. There's got to be a way where you don't think about all those things and focus on the interpersonal stuff. Because I think when the interpersonal stuff gets good, all of it gets good That's my assumption, or better

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 50:03
to two thoughts. I think there's, there's the journey, right of thinking about the diabetes, as you mentioned, you know, you're 17 years in. And there might be a moment, you know, in five years where something happens with Arden that might trigger, you know, I'm not putting that out there is like, there are moments like maybe there's, you know, I've had it for 33 years, maybe there's going to be a complication that that arises that you'd were not anticipating and you'd worked really hard to prevent, that is going to be triggering, and you're going to experience grieving around this chronic illness. I think there are moments where you can get into that routine where it does become mindless, and just part of breathing. And then it's also okay to have moments where you're just like, yeah, Damn this really, this really, is that car.

Scott Benner 50:54
Yeah, yeah, it certainly can sneak back. Listen, I have a complication and getting old, I just have surgery on my foot. Right? And I was sitting there thinking like, Oh, God, like, I'm so old, my toe stopped working, like what the hell? You know, and that brings in thoughts about how much life you have left. And it's not it's a month 52 thing. And people like that so young, is it? Not? If I'm dying, when I'm 70? Because that sounds like I'm almost done. And you know, and I just started to figure things out, you know, like, so any little thing can kind of push, there's nothing wrong with feeling it. And there's nothing wrong with thinking about it. There's something wrong with holding on to it. That's just gonna waste your time, I think.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 51:36
Yes, I think there's there's a process. And I think holding both of the thoughts that, wow, diabetes is not going to get in the way of my child's development, or if it's, you know, my own. And it's a really serious chronic illness, that takes a lot of work. And so I think we're always constantly as caregivers, or people with with type of diabetes, you're always holding that, right. And some days, the bout the skills going to tip where you're like, I got this, and it's not going to stop me. And then some days, that scale might tip the other way. Really, this is really hard. And I wish I didn't have to deal with this right in this moment. Because I want to go run off and do this other thing.

Scott Benner 52:16
It's Listen, there's no doubt it's difficult. It's always going to come up at the worst time. But I think that's, again, acceptance is just such a big part of it. Because yes, you know, it. I hear people say all the time, like why, why do I always need to change my pump or my this or that at the worst time, and I always say, What would have better time have been, there's no good time for this app. And this isn't the thing that you need. Like, again, you know, diabetes, I've heard it, I've explained it as sometimes it feels like you have to remember to breathe. Like it's almost like you have to sit there and tell yourself, breathe in, breathe out, breathe in breathe, because if you don't do that your health slips away. And eventually, like I said, it gets to the point where you understand that enough where that kind of fades into the background. But when it like you're saying comes back and slaps you in the face, all the sudden it's there again, I was about to go for a walk. I was about to go to bed. I mean, that's the worst it literally your whole life, your whole day and you're exhausted and the only thing you want to do is go to sleep and you lay down and you or your child's blood sugar starts to thaw. You're like or the other day, Erica, I swear to you, I walked through my my downstairs, and I was trying to get into the kitchen to get a drink. And it felt like within six seconds. The UPS guy rang the doorbell Arden's high blood sugar alarm went off. My dog started barking, and I dropped something. And it it literally felt like it all happened at the same time. And I was like, What the hell? Like, oh my God, but but here's the difference. I treat life like an action movie that's trying to kill me. I just watch the things that by my head, I go, Oh my god, that was amazing. And then I keep going. Because I don't have time to sit around and talk. I've done a lot of cool things in my life. I can't tell you what any of them are. I used I have friends who are like you remember the time that you went to a private airport at two o'clock in the morning and flew from Philadelphia to Albany, New York with stuttering John from the Howard Stern Show on a private plane. And I go yes. Oh my god, I do remember that. But I never would have thought to bring it up cuz I don't remember. And like, like, and to me, that's it. Like, I have memories. And they fill me up. But I don't live in the past. Like I'm always moving forward. And I mean, it's been working for sharks for millions of years. I think people should try it once in a while. That's all swim forward, eat a fish. Keep going take a crap in other fish. And sleep. Yeah, don't start thinking about the Khajiit last Thursday. It's upsetting. Keep going Do you have a note here? I don't want to ignore that you put in the notes. I know you want to talk about it last week, and we thought it fit in here too. But let's kind of bundle together cultural backgrounds and the differences that those can bring up.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 55:13
Yes, I think, you know, obviously, we are two people playing White, or white, or white. And oftentimes, I know it can be easier to speak from what feels like normal in your upbringing, we are trying really hard to expose, you know, all the different styles. And I do think it's important to note that there might be different expectations and of how when parents based on your cultural or ethnic background, and I think it's important for us to just acknowledge that we're not trying to say, you know, if that if that is your custom, and that is your culture, of how that the parent is the authority figure. And that's the way it goes in your culture in your background. And that works for you, then I think that's healthy and appropriate. But I think what we are trying to do, though, is shed light on other ways that you know, just where can we improve? How can we grow, while also being kind and gracious to ourselves?

Scott Benner 56:11
Well, I don't disagree with you. And at the same time, I'll add that I've gotten to watch two generations of Indian families, show up in America and raise a generation of children. And if you think you're going to bring culture to America, and then integrate your children with all of us, white people. And you think that it's not going to be easy to hold on to, I've watched people give up on some pretty hard held ideas pretty quickly, because you start I mean, you introduced that freedom. And I don't mean like American freedom. I mean, just like, you know, like the way things work here. And you start giving people like, you can't do this, because of that. And this and people go, I don't know, I'm looking around that didn't happen and other people, and I'm not inclined to listen to you, and I have a phone does, you know, like a Google everything, you know, did you know, like, we brought it up before, right? You can pick up your phone, and you have access to more information than the President had in 1960, or something like that, or 1980, or something like that. So you can't, it's harder and harder to hoodwink people into doing what you want them to do, whether it's for religious reasons, or cultural reasons, or whatever, because they're, once they can see it, then you know, they're only going to do it if they want to, or you're gonna have to force them. And I mean, that's on you. If you want to do that. That's fine with me. I don't care, honestly. But, you know, I'm not again, I'm not telling you about either wrong. I'm just saying if that's your goal, it's not as easy as you think. So, good luck. We've been dealing with this since the 50s. Since like, fast cars and Coca Cola. Like that's about how long it's been happening here. Right. So I mean, in the 40s people listened. And in the 50s, it started, but they blame Elvis, right?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 58:02
Yes. Yeah. The disrespect. Yeah.

Scott Benner 58:06
Are you telling me Pornhub? Is Elvis this fault? It could be a genealogist. But I mean, maybe. But no, I mean, it's just it's hard. Like, and I think that for everybody listening it, forget your cultural background, like, that's the situation you live in now that you're raising children in a in a time when they, they can fact check you in three seconds. So it's not even worth lying to them. Because they'll find out or they'll go ask somebody else. And it's not just about like, what is kissing? Or, like, now it's everything. They literally know everything. Some of the stuff my daughter laughs at I'm like, What the hell? Oh, why does she know about that? And, um, it's just the other way ahead of us. And it's gonna be I want to stay alive long enough to see where it gets them. Because in the beginning, they look overloaded, like, right, isn't that the that's what we've been saying for like the last five or six years, like, oh, kids are overloaded, they're getting more information than they need. Yes, but it's gonna come out in the wash, and like, and you're gonna see, you're gonna see people in their 30s and 40s and 50s, I think that are well ahead of where you and I were in our 30s and 40s and 50s. And then their kids are not going to be anxiety ridden the way they were because we're going to have another generation of this. Yeah,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 59:27
well, we'll have to replay this and the next 20 to 30 years and see and do some fact checking.

Scott Benner 59:33
I'm going to be absolutely dead by then. So good luck to all of you if you're hearing this in a time capsule if I was right, find my grave and come pull one out for me and if I was wrong, just cut me a break. I was just making a podcast okay. I really appreciate you doing this. We've talked before Episode three we're going to record next is going to be about self care personal growth for parents. Episode Four creating boundaries and expectations Episode Five is going to be avoided unintended consequences, and six will be co parenting and united front. And I think then Episode Seven recognizing patterns and breaking cycles. It's about as far as we've like, gotten to what we know for sure is going to be in this but we have a couple other ideas. And we appreciate you listening. So thank you and Erica can help people in person in California and online in California, Oregon,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:00:25
Utah, Utah, Florida, Florida,

Scott Benner 1:00:28
Florida get mixed in there. They're very far from each other. I'm holding up.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:00:33
Well, you know, they have I have some clients there from a long, long time ago or during the pandemic and Florida opened up a really nice telehealth policy. And actually, I'm currently also active for the next few months in Vermont, and I'll see if that if that goes past 2023.

Scott Benner 1:00:51
When it gets cold, the maple syrup freezes up and they take it away.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:00:56
I their telehealth policy might be extended. So I'm there currently.

Scott Benner 1:01:03
Do you think our states will do it? Or do you think that COVID God is many to do it as are going to?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:01:08
I think their states are currently really reevaluating what their telehealth policy is with, you know, COVID officially ending and some of those policies were closed. But then people I think really appreciate them and particularly states who don't have as much have many, you know, therapists because the numbers that they need, they need the actual numbers of therapists psychotherapists, all that. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:01:32
That's cool. Erica foresights.com.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:01:34
Thank you.

Scott Benner 1:01:35
Thank you very much.

Thanks so much for Hey, thanks so much for listening to the parenting series with me and Erica Erica Forsythe doc.com If you'd like to find her she's obviously terrific and specializes in helping people with type one diabetes. I'd also like to thank that contour next gen blood glucose meter for sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast and for sponsoring the remastering of the diabetes Pro Tip series. Don't forget what I said earlier in the show, go check out that Pro Tip series for that special offer link. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast and if you miss me in the meantime, head over to the private Facebook group and say hello. I'm always there.

A huge thank you to one of today's sponsors better help, you can get 10% off your first month of therapy with my link better help.com forward slash juicebox that's better H e lp.com. Forward slash juice box. If you've been thinking about speaking with someone, this is a great way to do it on your terms betterhelp.com forward slash juice box when you support the Juicebox Podcast by clicking on the advertisers links, you are helping to keep the show free and plentiful. I am certainly not asking you to buy something that you don't want. But if you're going to buy something, or use the device from one of the advertisers, getting your purchases set up through my links is incredibly helpful. So if you have the desire or the need, please consider using Juicebox Podcast links to make your purchases