Scott Benner 9/27/24 Scott Benner 9/27/24

#1317 Lots to Digest

Peggy is a D mom of a young type 1. We talk diabetes and digestive health.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome back to another episode of The juicebox Podcast.

I'm speaking with Peggy today. She's the mom of a child with type one diabetes who is nine years old. He was diagnosed in April of 2023 there's no other type one in the family, but they do have some bipolar, and today we're going to talk a lot about digestion issues and type one diabetes. Nothing you hear on the juicebox podcast should be considered advice medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan. If you're looking for community around type one diabetes, check out the juicebox podcast. Private Facebook group. Juicebox podcast, type one diabetes, but everybody is welcome. Type one, type two, gestational loved ones. It doesn't matter to me, if you're impacted by diabetes and you're looking for support, comfort or community, check out juicebox podcast, type one diabetes on Facebook. Guys, summer is overs, Fall is here, and you are going to need some sweatpants, sweatshirts, new sheets and towels. Go get them@cozyarth.com and save 40% off of your entire order when you use the offer code juicebox at checkout, and don't forget to take that survey AT T 1d, exchange.org/juice, box. I'm waiting for you to get over there. Head over now, only take a couple minutes. Today's episode of The juicebox podcast is sponsored by OmniPod and the OmniPod five learn more and get started today@omnipod.com juicebox. Box. Tickets for the 2025 juice cruise are limited. I'm not just saying that they actually are limited. We have a certain window to sell them in, and then that's it. Juicebox podcast.com, scroll down to the juice cruise banner, click on it, find a cabin that works for you and register right now. You are absolutely limited by time on this one. I'm so sorry to say that it sounds pushy, but it's the absolute truth. Juice cruise 2025 I hope to see you there. We're gonna get a tan, talk about diabetes and meet a ton of great people who are living with diabetes. It's kind of gonna be like floating diabetes camp, but you won't have to sleep in a log cabin. You'll get a tan, and it's not just for adults or kids. It's for everybody. Hi, I'm

Peggy 2:27
Peggy, and I'm a mom of a type one diabetes child who is nine years old. We live in the Midwest, and he was diagnosed last year in April. So I'm happy to be here. I'm

Scott Benner 2:41
happy to have you. Let me fish out a marker for my whiteboard. I cleaned my desk up, which was a huge mistake. My first question is, how long ago was he diagnosed?

Peggy 2:51
He was diagnosed, April 13. 2023,

Scott Benner 2:56
okay, so just about a year, yeah, just slightly over a year, okay, yeah, yeah, at eight years old at that point. Okay, any other type one in your family?

Peggy 3:08
No, well, I pause and say, my first cousin's child, so yes, but not, you know, first tier relatives, right?

Scott Benner 3:20
How about other autoimmune stuff, like celiac, thyroid,

Peggy 3:24
not that I'm aware of, of course, after diagnosis, as a mom, I did all the research and asked all the questions and trying to figure out the why, and as far as I know, like not his grandmother or grandfather, or, you know, aunts and uncles or anything like that. Okay,

Scott Benner 3:41
okay, different tier in the family line, bipolar, yes, yeah, no, yes, interesting. Okay, I'm gonna keep asking that question. Okay, I don't know what answer we're gonna come up with. I think I assume that paleontologists in the future listening to the podcast will be like this guy was onto something in the early 20s. Oh, I guess. Who knows why that

Peggy 4:05
is not one I had thought of. But, yeah,

Scott Benner 4:07
okay, inflammation. Ah, inflammation. That's what a lot of conversation around bipolar and inflammation, which just made me ask it one day, and then I kept asking it, and people keep saying yes. So I'm confused if we met at at the touch by type one conference in Orlando. How do you live in the Midwest?

Peggy 4:24
How do I live in the Midwest? Well, yeah, born and raised here, and when my son was first diagnosed, I craving community. And while I had my cousin's child with type one, no one else knew anything about it. I mean, I was confused. My family was confused. And in the profession that I'm in, I'm actually a counselor, and one of the things I teach my clients is community is really important, whatever your needs are. And so I was practicing what I preached. I reached out all over Facebook with one. One tiny Facebook group that my cousin had recommended, and then got lots of recommendations, and I'm on all kinds of groups now, so, and one of the things that I did was, where can I meet people in person? Like, eyeline is great, but where can I meet people in person? And I saw this free conference, you know, four months post diagnosis, and it was in Orlando, and I was like, let's go, let's go. Like, let's let's figure out who our people are. Learn as much as we can. And I love the touch to one type one in Orlando, because there was a kid section, and this is a big transition for me as a mom, but really, he's a little eight year old boy who none of his friends understand what's going on, and I wanted to just build community for him. And he did. I mean, he did go to type one diabetes camp the first year. I was so proud of them, but just wanted to keep growing our community. So because the conference was free, I just, you know, obviously had to pay for airfare and hotel, but it was, it was the trip. And who doesn't love Florida, right?

Scott Benner 6:05
It's nice and warm,

Peggy 6:06
even in August. I mean,

Scott Benner 6:08
did you do other things while you were there? Did you just come into the car? We did, yeah, good, that's good. Yeah. We

Peggy 6:13
did tons of fun stuff. We went to the beach, you know? We drove to Cocoa Beach. We tried lots of new restaurants, and went swimming a ton, and we met the most incredible people. And I was actually just texting with one of the moms this morning. She has turned into my practically daily check in on just life stuff. And I'm so grateful I went, because really, she's absolutely amazing. She's my closest person I talk to all the time, and she's in Arkansas. Oh,

Scott Benner 6:42
that's fantastic. So you met somebody at that conference that you are still close with right now. More than

Peggy 6:48
Yes, she's my more that yes, she was my dearest, dearest friend. Oh, that's fantastic. She listens to, yeah,

Scott Benner 6:55
the people at touch by type one, I think will be touched by that as well. That's really cool. So okay, so you go there. Did you have expectations beyond community? Do you think you're gonna learn something, or you just, were you really just throwing yourself into it?

Peggy 7:09
Well, you were there, so I wanted to meet you. I was excited about that. So community, meeting you, that was my biggest struggle.

Scott Benner 7:18
So you knew the podcast already?

Peggy 7:20
I did know the podcast already. Yep, all right, yep.

Scott Benner 7:23
Was I okay? You were awesome.

Peggy 7:26
Yeah, you were hilarious. And, you know, it's, it's great seeing your face in person, in real life, and then hearing your voice. It was, it was really cool.

Scott Benner 7:34
I'm glad. Yeah, I have to tell you, there's a fair amount of pressure that comes with that whole, like, somebody thing, you know, you're like, Oh, I wonder what they'll think, or you kind of don't want to, I guess my biggest thing is actually specific to, like, your situation. Like, I think people travel to these like, can you imagine if you got there and you were just like, oh, this is horrible. Like, I would feel so, yeah, I feel so bad about dragging you into it. You know what I mean? Like, even though it was free, I'd be like, I'm so sorry, but Oh, that's good to know. So you knew the podcast prior to that. So had you been managing with ideas from the podcast already? Today's episode of The juicebox podcast is sponsored by OmniPod, and before I tell you about OmniPod, the device, I'd like to tell you about OmniPod, the company, I approached OmniPod in 2015 and asked them to buy an ad on a podcast that I hadn't even begun to make yet because the podcast didn't have any listeners. All I could promise them was that I was going to try to help people living with type one diabetes, and that was enough for OmniPod. They bought their first ad, and I used that money to support myself while I was growing the juicebox podcast. You might even say that OmniPod is the firm foundation of the juicebox podcast, and it's actually the firm foundation of how my daughter manages her type one diabetes every day. Omnipod.com/juicebox whether you want the OmniPod five or the OmniPod dash, using my link, let's OmniPod know what a good decision they made in 2015 and continue to make to this day. OmniPod is easy to use, easy to fill, easy to wear. And I know that because my daughter has been wearing one every day since she was four years old, and she will be 20 this year. There is not enough time in an ad for me to tell you everything that I know about OmniPod, but please take a look omnipod.com/juicebox I think OmniPod could be a good friend to you, just like it has been to my daughter and my family.

Peggy 9:39
Yes, very I mean, as much as you can four months in, right? I mean, there's so much information overload, but even just basic steps, like, I'm going to share a story about my son. So at the type one conference, touch by type one conference, there was a kids section, and you were the speaker at the kids section. And one of the questions that you had asked was, besides food, what you know will raise your blood sugar. And my son raises his hand. Was all excited to answer the question, and said, adrenaline. And your response was, how did you know that? And he said, Well, my mom listens to juicebox podcast, so yeah. So it was really great to learn even more. I think we went to a I went to one on, like self care and like the caregiver and hearing other parents about what they're doing, because I was in like, crisis mode. Man, still four months in, and I was not sleeping. Well. Is pink. This was still kind of working, so lots of lows and just confusion about what the hell right. Because, I mean, I went out with, you know, this information from medical people who I trust, and I am like type A, wanting to like A plus B equals perfection. And realized very quickly that the information I was getting was not working for my child, and I needed to find a different way of doing things very, very quickly, because it was making me sick Peggy, that

Scott Benner 11:13
quickly in the first four months, the things you were being told you'd take them home, and what were the outcomes like?

Peggy 11:21
Oh my gosh. I mean, super high highs and super low lows, like, scariness, where I just panicked all the time, I mean, and it was, you know, Basil was too high. So and again, all this language that you're learning, like, what is a basal, what is a, what is a bolus? You know, I was using language like, short term, long term, because he was MDI in the beginning, even, even MDI, like, what the heck is MDI? So it was a lot of information. And so a lot of huge, huge spikes from within seconds. You know, I remember one time calling the on call emergency Endo, because he went from like 320 double arrows down to like 60 in a matter of nine minutes. I mean, it was incredible. And again, this was in the beginning. So, I mean, it was just way too much of all the insulin, but basil was too high in the beginning. So he was, I mean, six, seven lows at night, yeah. And, you know, the endo would say things like, well, once you administer the the the basal, there's no going back, you know, so the middle of the night, just treat the lows. I mean, that's like the advice I was getting. So it's like, Well, shouldn't the advice be lower your basal tomorrow. You know, like, why am I waiting three days to lower the basal? I don't know. It's just, it's terrible.

Scott Benner 12:49
It doesn't make sense. Terrible advice, yeah, especially in that storm that you're having, like, it's like, you want to see I did this. It worked. That's good advice. Now, check we do that, what's the next thing? And instead, everything seems wrong, and probably honeymooning, right? Yes,

Peggy 13:06
yeah, very much. So, I mean, I know that now, but I remember even the word honeymooning and thinking honeymooning, this is hell. Like I thought honeymoons, I've never been married, but, like, I thought honeymoon was like this bliss of, like, easy love. And this was, like, yeah, my living fucking nightmare.

Scott Benner 13:27
Hell, it is real. I've always said that. Like, why did they name it that? Like, why? Like, I guess, because everything's good in the honeymoon, and then it gets worse afterwards. Is that the idea, but? But that's not the point, though, because, because I do think you're right. I think people think honeymoon, and they think, like, beach happy? Like, like, yeah. You're like, that's like, oh, the honeymoon. And you're like, No, this is not happy. I don't feel like I'm on a beach. This is No, yeah, I feel like I'm in the water knocked over by the waves, exactly like

Peggy 13:59
drowning. That's a perfect example. I felt like I was drowning, drowning with information, drowning with like, nobody understanding, and having to be in charge of everything, like educating the school system, educating his teacher, educating his soccer coach. Like it was

Scott Benner 14:15
a lot. It's a lot. It still is a lot. Oh, of course. But it's a lot if you're if you're tuned in and interested and able, it's a lot. I always think about the people who were just getting by, like no one knew, but they were, like, low key, not great parents, but it was working out and everything. You know what? I mean, don't put a ton of effort in, like it was, they were skating, and it was working, and the kid's easy, and then all of a sudden, ton of information, ton of responsibility, life and death, and then, then what, like all, what are you gonna shift on a dime, you know, and go be a different person. It's,

Peggy 14:47
I know, it's a lot so hard.

Scott Benner 14:50
How did your son handle it? Looking back? Well, gosh, you know, I.

Peggy 15:01
Oh, it's hard to think about going back. Sorry, no, you're fine. I didn't mean to go so, oh

Scott Benner 15:06
no, it's okay. It's okay.

Peggy 15:08
It's no, it's okay. It's just, it's, it's still only been a year, but, you know, he had had, I mean, this kind of ties into the digestive enzyme, so it's actually kind of perfect for, for, I don't years before diagnosis, he was having a lot of stomach issues and gastro, random vomiting and all kinds of stuff that no one could figure out what was going on. And I did allergy testing, I thought it was like a milk allergy pediatrician put him on Oh, and constipation was the other thing. Put him on MiraLAX and put him on Prilosec, and then had a celiac test and an upper endoscopy and all this stuff for years beforehand, and no one could figure out what was wrong. They thought they knew what was wrong, right? They said acid reflux and constipation, because he doesn't drink enough water. And I just knew when my mom got like, this doesn't seem right, you know, like, and that was my gosh. I wish I could think back, I don't know, maybe three years, maybe even four. I mean, even as an infant, he had vomiting from formula. And, you know, looking back now all these years thinking like, God, was there an allergy to formula? And then, I don't know, who knows? You can't blame yourself, but yeah, let me

Scott Benner 16:30
tell you this to make you feel better, that for years, they would tell us, Oh, Arden must have acid reflux or something, because she'd be constant. Well, I'm so, by the way, Arden, if you're listening to this as an adult, I apologize, but when Arden was young, she'd have four, five days of constipation and then one horrible like diarrhea, like release, yes, right, yes, yeah, that was him, and then that was him,

Peggy 16:57
and it was got his diagnosed, yes, Yeah. And there would be moments of like, oh gosh, finally. And then he would like, not eat for a little while because, and they'd say, Well, he said eating because he's constipated. So when he first got diagnosed, quite frankly, I mean, of course, he was traumatized because he had, you know, the blood draws and the needles, and he was scared, but within 24 hours of being in the hospital, he felt so much better. He was still very sick, but he was going to the bathroom. He was just, you could see the color back in his face. Mom,

Scott Benner 17:31
I have diabetes, but I just took

Peggy 17:35
a great you know what I mean? Like, he and I had, I was traumatized too, but also a sense of relief. Like, Oh my god, this is what I've been saying for years. Like I knew something was coming. I knew something big was going on with my kid, and now I know,

Scott Benner 17:50
did it get regular at that point, or was it just? No, it just was good for a minute and then went back again. Yeah. Okay, yeah, yeah.

Peggy 17:57
So, yeah. So back to your original question was, how did he respond? And I think both of us were traumatized and relieved for the first France, I don't know, right for answers, for this reason, right? And then, and then the stomach pain started again. You know, we're home from the hospital, we're trying to get into a routine, and the stomach pain was happening, and constipation was happening, and then we've got up and down blood sugars. So I'm like, trying to figure it all out. And so I went to the internet for answers, and came upon the juicebox podcast, and started listening to the episode that you talked about Arden and her digestive enzymes, and all the the regimen that that you guys had found that really worked for her. And I was like, this is related to diabetes. I mean, it just clicked with me, like, boom, I have to get this product in my hands. So I immediately went online, ordered it, and it has been life changing,

Scott Benner 19:01
life changing, and so, so tell me, I mean, I almost can't remember everything that we tried, to be perfectly honest, like going through it, but, but, you know, for context, we were up to Arden had a scope, and a doctor told her she had gastroparesis, and when we said, Whoa, no, wait, like her blood sugars are really well managed. And he goes, Well, I don't think it's from diabetes. And I was like, Well, don't use that word around people with type one diabetes. It's scary. You know what? I mean, like, he's, he's, he's, like, why? I just mean, she has slow digestion. And I was like, okay, you know, he put her on this, like, gastroparesis diet, which was horrifying. Like, you know, just not a thing you'd want to do your whole life. And she did it like, she's, like, all right, I'll do it. And we did it for a solid month, and nothing, not one thing changed about this, like, constant pain in her stomach, like, couldn't go to the bathroom, like, this whole thing. And I've told. Story before, but I want to tell it here. I went to a local health food store because at the end of this first month with this diet, Arden looked at me one day and she said, I don't care if it hurts. I want a cheeseburger, like, like, let's go. And I kind of used it as leverage, because we had done, I mean, fairly something fairly invasive, like having her scoped and everything. It did not bring her an answer. She was at the point where she goes, Oh, doctors aren't going to help me. This is my lot, right? And so totally. So I said, I'll get you the cheeseburger, but we're going to stop at the health the health food store first, and we're going to just, like, try to get a digestive enzyme to go along with it. And she's, like, whatever, if I get a cheeseburger. It's fine. And I went there, and I talked to a lady who I love. I can't tell what her European descent is. She just sounds like a witch to me when she's talking, which is fantastic. And she's got a very great hippie vibe to her. And she talked to Arden for a while and talked to me, and she put this digestive enzyme in our hands, and she's like, start with this. And we were like, okay, Arden popped two of these things in the car while we were picking up the food, and she ate the cheeseburger, and she said later, like, my stomach doesn't hurt the way it usually does, but then she did not go to the bathroom. So like, days went by and stomach didn't hurt when she ate, but was not eliminating. And so I went back to the witch doctor, and I said, I said, Hey, here's what's going on. And she goes here, and she says, take these magnesium oxide, these will make you go to the bathroom. I was like, right on. And so I was like, Arden, the lady says it's gonna make and, you know, gave her one. And sure enough, like, the funny thing is, is that days went by and I kept waiting for to come to me, I know. And finally I just was like, I said, All right, I gotta ask you, like, are these magnesium oxides working? And she goes, Oh yeah, I went to the bathroom days ago. I just didn't want to tell you. And I was like, anyway, so that's it. Now she does not even do it all the time anymore. It just it got her through like a, like, a situation. Now I still like, so then I like, watch her, and I'm like, God, I have a lot of these issues. And so I was like, let me try the digestive enzyme. Now, all of a sudden, I could go to restaurants I couldn't go to before, or something like that. Like, I started testing them. I just, like, going places. I was like, I was like, I said to Kelly, I'm like, What's that restaurant that always makes me sick to my stomach? And she said, I don't want to say the name of it. And, and I was like, Okay, I'm like, let's go there today. And I was like, I'm gonna go take, I'm gonna take two of these digestive enzymes, and I'm gonna eat. And, no kidding. Like, I didn't get nauseous, my stomach didn't, like, flip over, like, anything like that. And then I had to add the magnesium oxide as well. Now, moving forward, it got to a weird place where, without the magnesium oxide, I wasn't going to the bathroom, but I also wasn't having like, formed bowel movements anymore, like it was and I was happy to be going and being on a cycle, and I felt like everything was better. I had this, like, gut guy, come on the podcast, and he just talked to me for, like, it's not out yet, and he talked to me for like, 45 minutes, and I'm still waiting for more testing, but he listened to everything I said, and then he was like, oh yeah. Slippery elm bark. And I was like, and I'm like, what now? So, so, no kidding. So he goes, I'd like you to try slippery elm bark. Is that right? Let me make sure that's right. I take it every day, and now I don't know what the hell it's called, so no, that's it, slippery elm bark. And I just buy a very like, inexpensive one on Amazon. I think they're like, 4000 milligram. Let me find it for you so I make sure I tell you the right goddamn thing. Hold on a second. We go to my recent orders and type in Elm that should bring it up pretty easily. Yeah. I buy something from Horbach, H, O, R, B, A, A, C, H, slippery elm bark, 4000 milligrams per serving 200 capsules, $9 right? So listen, Peggy, wait here. So I was at the situation now where I was not rushing to the bathroom, I could hold, like I my bowel movement till I wanted to go, which is a thing I used to hear people talk about, and I was like, whoa. Magically, I didn't do that right. And I could do that even though, like I said, my eliminations were not like, in a way that I was like, Oh, this seems solid and good. But I was like, happy because no pain. My digestion was working. I was absorbing my nutrient side this one side effect. I thought, Oh, I guess I'm this is what I'm gonna deal with. I talked to the guy. I ordered the slippery elm bark. I pop two of them in with my next meal. I take them when I eat. I don't know how to take them yet. I don't know if it's two or if it's one, like, it's not a kind of thing where. They tell you, two days later, I just had a solid bowel movement, and I was like, What in the hell just happened? Like, you know what I mean, like, so it just apparently, just kind of coats your insides. I don't understand why that would matter. He also moved me, and this was specific to me, so I wouldn't want anyone else to do this. But when I said I had some reflux still. He moved me to an enzyme, a digestive enzyme that has HCl in it, which is hydrochloric acid. I think so. I grab Thorn, beta tine, HCl and pepsin, digestive enzymes for protein breakdown in absorption, 225, capsules, I put on a little weight of a couple of pounds, but not, I don't think in an unhealthy way. I think I'm just going to the bathroom on a like a more reasonable I think I'm actually retaining some nutrients. I'm having to rejigger how I eat and everything like that, to fit. Bit. But anyway, he then sent me a urine test, which I have to actually do today, and then I'll get the results back from that. Then we're gonna sit down and talk again, then the episode

Peggy 26:09
will come out, so I can't wait to hear about it. Yeah, do they do? You know, do they do those have anything for kids? Because here I am. I'm like, God, my kid could use that too. You know? Like, I

Scott Benner 26:21
just talked to the guy, he sent me. I mean, it's a thing I'm paying for, like, you know, it's like a $300 test. I'm gonna pee in a jar and mail it somewhere. It's like, it's for the podcast. It's for me too, but it's for the podcast. So I can probably write it off on my taxes next year, but, but nevertheless, I'm just really interested to learn more. And here's the crazy thing, and this I'm really sorry for, because I definitely don't think I've ever said this on here. But my son has a similar digestive system to me, and I had been like, you know, doing all the like he was in the same spot. Because I was like, hey, try this, try that. Maybe it's this, maybe it's that. And like, he online, he'd be like, that, none of this stuff is helping me. And I'm like, okay, but I just sent him a text one day and I said, Cole, I'm like, just try this slippery elm bark. I said, just one time. Just try it for a day. And I'll tell you what. Man, he went off for the weekend last weekend, and I watched him go in the kitchen and grab that thing and take it with him. Wow. So I was pretty

Peggy 27:24
you know what's working? He's not going to tell you, maybe, but he's going to show you right come

Scott Benner 27:28
right out and set it. But I because it's weird, like dad. I yeah, he's in his 20s. He ain't looking for that conversation, I don't think. But he and I are both going to the doctor next week, not the gut guy, but our actual doctor, just for our yearly checkup. So we're going to be discussing all that with her. But anyway, so what happened for your son? Tell me how it worked

Peggy 27:46
for him. That's amazing. So I use the brand that Arden had used, so the pure encapsulation. They do have a children's line, which, by the way, continues to be out of stock, and I blame you and the juicebox podcast, because every time I get on a subscription, I'll get two and then they're like, sorry, we're out. What the heck they were out for, like, six months. I

Scott Benner 28:14
just really like, I don't need to be they need to be a sponsor. I don't know if you're accustomed to the term Gird your loins, but I just tensed up when I said the name of that slippery on bark out loud, because I was like, I cannot get

Peggy 28:27
that. Oh, my God, I know. Yeah, you say it out loud and there's going to disappear. That's what's happening to me right now I'm out. So, yeah, go ahead.

Scott Benner 28:34
But what did it do for him? Oh, God,

Peggy 28:36
changed his life so and now he asked for it, yeah, and if he doesn't take it before he eats, like, if we're out and about, um, my stomach hurts. I didn't and I said, I'll say, oh shoot, I forgot the digestive enzyme. So what it did is, it's his stomach doesn't hurt anymore. He would get severe stomach pain, like, I would have to pick him up from daycare sometimes before type one diagnosis, and I'd give him because I thought it was reflux. Like, here you go, buddy. You know now it's like, he can eat whatever he wants within reason, right? And he doesn't get stomach pain, he doesn't vomit, he doesn't have gas. He's like, digesting his food in the way that his body is supposed to be doing. On top of that, I did also start doing because I noticed I just the digestive enzymes first, and it was helping with not having stomach pain, but he wasn't pooping exactly like you said. And instead of doing MiraLAX, like the pediatrician said, because that was making him miserable, I'm doing chewable calm, digest, calm, magnesium for him at night. Okay? He has a bomb of it every single day. The calmest night is a nice product. It is a nice product. Yeah, it's easy, and he it tastes good. You know? He's not, like, ew. This is gross because I've tried other ones, and he's like, I am not and he can't do capsules yet, right? He's only nine, so I. Mean, I've tried, because when the Drupal digestive enzymes was out, I purchased the capsules, even though it's not recommended for children. So he couldn't get up down. I tried. We tried over and over and over and over again. We practiced with other things, and it gets like stuck in his he can, okay, it's probably just, I might, I might try again. It's been a while. Yeah,

Scott Benner 30:22
I have to tell you, it's, it's really interesting. I'd like to read this to people. I just went to chat GPT, and I said, What is the pancreas role in digestion? Chat GPT says the pancreas plays a crucial role in digestion by producing enzymes that help break down food in the small intestines. These enzymes include pancreatic amylase, which breaks down carbohydrates into sugar. Pancreatic lipase breaks down fats into fatty acid and glycerol. And pancreatic proteins breaks down proteins into amino acids. These enzymes are released into the small intestine to help with the digestion of carbohydrates, fats, proteins, allowing the body to absorb essential nutrients, and I say this thing out loud on my Facebook group, and Holy hell, a firestorm of people who are like, my stomach has been hurting for 20 years like I got notes from people that said, hey, my stomach hurt. I actually one lady's like, sticks in my head. My stomach has hurt for 35 years. It doesn't hurt today. Thank you. That's all it said. And I was like, Oh my God. Like, back to your original point of, like, getting all this information like no one ever just says to you, hey, if your stomach hurts, try a digestive enzyme in the endos office. Crazy, yeah, what he

Peggy 31:37
did was he referred me back to the gastroenterologist. You know, he's like, Oh, you've seen this person. Why don't you go back to her and talk to her? So we did, and she did some stool testing and and whatever and everything, you know, like pancreatic because it was testing, I told her we were taking the enzymes. What was it? The enzymes, right? But he wasn't it was because of the poopings. But that's why we're back. I've

Scott Benner 32:01
heard you have gastroparesis. You have celiac. You know, as soon as your stomach hurts, they go, celiac, just like, celiac, right? Not to say you couldn't, but like, bang, right, to that. And then they do the testing, and you go, I don't have any markers for celiac. And they go, silent, celiac, okay? And, you know, I'm like, All right, and then it's, it's gastroparesis. Like, how many people are running around now think they have gastroparesis that don't have it? I have no idea, you know, like, I mean, I'm sure many of you do. But that, again, not the point. The point is, is that this is a simple over the counter thing you can try, and you'll know if it works fairly quickly, so very quickly, and it's not gonna hurt you if you didn't need it, like so and the other thing, well, they'll say, Oh, you gotta get probiotics. Got probiotics. You know how many fcking probiotics Arden took. Didn't do anything. I took them. She took them. I forced them on my son. He took them. Dad, nothing changed. Same. Yeah. Try this. Try that. Same. Yeah. So who cares, like, if it's pancreas related because you have type one diabetes, or if it's just how you're built, or whatever. Like, such a simple fix. I mean, fantastic. I know, yeah.

Peggy 33:10
I mean, yeah, I was really angry at the medical community. Like, how do you not teach people these things and offer solutions, rather than put your hands up in the air, like, Oh, we don't. The tests say nothing. So why

Scott Benner 33:25
does the vaguely Russian Eastern Block witch know and you don't know? Like, I mean, seriously, yeah. I mean, she's, by the way, a lovely woman just has a great accent I don't understand. Like, I really don't. And the other thing is that it's in this health food store that when you get in there, smells weird, and everybody's like, in Birkenstocks, and it's strange and everything. And, like, I'm not listening. If you got Birkenstocks, it's fine with me, but I'm just, I'm trying to paint a picture. You know what? I mean? Like, it's a it's a real kind of, like, incense. It's a hippie place. And if you walked in there, off the street, never having any intersection with this idea you're gonna walk in and go, Okay, what is this? Exactly right? Like, I'm not doing this. Like, I'm not taking bee pollen. I don't know what you know, like, you know, like, and, and I don't know. I just said BEE POLLEN just seemed like something someone would take if they wouldn't. It's crazy that a mainstream doctor wouldn't say, hey, you know, your pancreas is also in charge of so much about digestion. That's

Peggy 34:25
the thing. Is, when we were, when he was first diagnosed, the only information I was taught and thought for a long period of time was that the pancreas produced only insulin. You

Scott Benner 34:38
didn't even know what else it did. Yeah,

Peggy 34:40
I didn't know what else it did I mean, and I'm still learning, like there's so many things it's it's a lot to learn, and I know they can only tell us so much, but based on what I've talked to other moms and other families about and online, how much the i. This is impacting people, and they're getting the same message as I am. I'm really lucky that I learned about it so quickly, and I can't tell people enough, even if I have friends that have kids that are having stomach issues or constipation or whatever, that are not type one, I'm like, you literally need to buy digestive enzymes and magnesium. Like, I don't care what your doctor said, 60s,

Scott Benner 35:19
and you're handed out Quaaludes to people they're like

Peggy 35:25
and maybe it works for some people. I'm not saying, I don't want to say anything

Scott Benner 35:28
bad about No, it's not magic. If you have listened, you might have a lot of a lot of different issues that are not going to be touched by this, but if this is your issue, you will know quickly. Hey, chat. GPT, the human pancreas, I asked it, what are the functions of the human pancreas? The human pancreas has both endocrine and extracurricular functions. Endocrine functions, the pancreas contains clusters of cells called the isolates of Langerhans, which produce hormones that regulate blood sugar levels. The main hormone produced by the isolates are the insulin and glucagon. Insulin helps lower blood sugar levels by promoting the uptake of glucose into cells, while glucagon raises blood sugar levels by stimulating the liver to release stored glucose. Now number two, exocrine function, the pancreas produces digestive enzymes that are released into small intestines to help break down carbohydrates, fats and proteins in food. These enzymes include amylase for carbohydrates, lipase for fats and various for proteins. Dysfunction of the pancreas can lead to conditions such as diabetes mellitus and pancreatic insufficiency. So but Bada bing, like, I mean, like, it's not possible. A doctor doesn't know that, especially an endocrinologist, and I can't understand how you could stand in front of them say My stomach hurts for 35 years, and they go, Oh, you have CELAC, no, I don't. Oh, you have this. No, I don't. Oh, I guess your stomach hurts. That's it. This is not the next step fascinating. So I know,

Peggy 36:55
I know it's so frustrating, and I'm I, I'm glad that you know we're talking about it, because I think that's what's missing, is, you know, this piece, it's not just about the insulin and glucagon, it's, it's all the other things. And it's crazy. It can impact growth. It can impact because my son is on the smaller side, yeah. And so I was trying to find answers with that too, and they keep telling me, and I'm still not convinced that there isn't something else going on, but that's another story. You know, he's on the growth curve. He's on the growth curve. It's like, okay, I understand that, but he's like, significantly smaller than other children. Well, let

Scott Benner 37:29
me say this, then, what's his TSH, what is that? It's the thyroid stimulating hormone. They should test this thyroid. Oh, they

Peggy 37:38
have, I don't know the number, but it's within normal range. Don't

Scott Benner 37:43
worry about the normal range. Like, figure out the number, okay. Like, okay. And let's say, I guess they're going to tell you the normal range is somewhere between. I don't know what the low the low range is, but then the high range is up, 1010, hold on a second normal range for ths agent adults is typically between point four and four. Okay, so what I'll tell you, based on conversations I've had and experiences I've had personally, is that when you start getting over two and you have symptoms, you should probably treat the symptoms with the medication, and then, so I don't know what his is. I might be, you know, completely off, but I'll, I'll share this with you that Arden was the smallest kid in her school. I mean, the teeniest person. Okay, we I forget how old she was when we finally figured out she had thyroid, we pushed treatment very quickly because my wife had had it, and they wouldn't treat her, and it caused her a lot of problems. We got her onto Synthroid really quickly. And today, Arden's going to be 20 in a couple of months. Arden's five seven. She's five seven. Wow. The best way I can explain this to you is that a handful of years ago, after having played softball for this for this guy as a coach for six or seven years, Arden saw this man again when she was like 16, and my wife bumped into him in a store. They were talking, Arden was around the corner at a different aisle, and Arden came back, stood behind my wife, because my wife was engaged in a conversation, kind of politely, stood behind her for a while, and when the conver when the conversation died down, the gentleman asked my wife, who is this you're with? Oh, wow, yeah. He did not know it was Arden. And that's how much like different she was like, she was like, five, one weighed nothing. Was so skinny, and now today, she's a good weight, and she's five seven. And I think it's because we gave her the wow. I think it's because she got that so,

Peggy 39:56
yeah, he's in like the 13th percentile for. For height and 20th, maybe not even 20th for weight, weight and height are really on the low end. Does

Scott Benner 40:10
he have any of the hypothyroid symptoms? Geez, hair loss, fatigue, weakness, sense? He

Peggy 40:17
did a diagnosis. I mean, all that sounds like type one diabetes, sensitivity

Scott Benner 40:20
to cold, dry skin, dry hair, constipation, muscle weakness, depression, anxiety, memory problems, puffy face, elevated cholesterol. These are all like

Peggy 40:33
memory problems, cholesterol, memory I always say, I always, I keep on saying it's diabetes thyroid?

Scott Benner 40:42
Does he have trouble? Does he not get rested after he sleeps? Sometimes, that's one of them. That's a big one.

Peggy 40:50
He slept for 11 hours last night and was grumpy this morning, like he hadn't slept a full night.

Scott Benner 40:56
Yeah. So there's part of me that thinks, you go find out what his TSH is, and you're gonna see it's like three, like, it's like three and a half or something. So it looked green on the Yeah, on the thing. But I'm telling you, if it's over to something, you know, I forget exactly, I have a great episode about it with Dr Benito. I can give you the the Yeah, that'd be great. Yeah, you can listen through it anyway. How else? Like, what else is going on with diabetes? Like, what have you guys figured out? How's it going? All that stuff?

Peggy 41:29
Well, I mean, it's, it's going, right? I mean, we're, like, I said earlier, that's, we're a year into this. It's different every day we he's on the OmniPod five and the g7 he started with the g7 and so I'm in manual. I'm saying I'm in manual mode because I do all the work, right? And I'm having, recently, I'm having a lot of problems. Again, me, I he is, but I am with higher numbers than I would like, because I don't know if it's tunneling. Nico, hi. Nico was the one who told me about tunneling on Facebook, and so I've been trying all the things for tunneling, because it's like, there is no reason for his numbers to be. I mean, I'm, I shouldn't say, no reason, but I it's just like all there's so many factors, right? But that is the one that I feel like keeps happening because it'll his ratios and insulin sensitivity, factor, and all the things are working for like, 24 hours, and then it stops working, and it's driving me crazy. So, you know, and giving them more and more and more and more on the on the app is isn't working. So I'm changing out his pod earlier, and I've tried skin tack, I've tried underlays, I've tried overlays, I've tried I called OmniPod, and was like, help like, this keeps happening to my kid, you know, and I'll take it off. And it's not usually a cannula, it's, I've been cannula once, and they recommended the liquid just around the triangle part. So that's the last thing I'm gonna try. And then I just be like, I need to try a different pump or something. It's driving me nuts.

Scott Benner 43:06
So it's pulling you think it's pulling away? Or do you think

Peggy 43:10
he's very active? Yeah, he fiddles with it. If you know what I mean, he'll, it'll be on his arm, and he'll be watching TV, and be like, or it's on his stomach, and he's stop touching your pod, you know? So it moves a lot. And he's very active. He's running around. He plays soccer. And I think it's just not staying put, and it doesn't, you know, oh, I tried to a grip shield. I mean, I've tried all the things. So he's and if I don't put it right on the right way, it just kind of wheels

Scott Benner 43:38
right. So he's lean and thin too. Yes, very lean. You don't have a lot of, like, flat, bigger spaces to put it on. I don't. It doesn't work better anywhere on his leg,

Peggy 43:47
stomach. He won't do the leg. Ooh, I we did the leg once. I had to, I mean, we had to take it off. He just screamed and screamed. It was so painful.

Scott Benner 43:56
It hurt. The sight hurt. Okay, you get the muscle. Maybe I

Peggy 44:00
must have. I must have. And that was in the beginning of when we started, which I think we started in, like August. Has

Scott Benner 44:07
he put a weight on something? Yes, not

Peggy 44:09
a lot. The doctor's pleased, yeah,

Scott Benner 44:13
well, I mean, you could try the leg again, because it sounds like on the stomach, because he's got, there's more surface area. It's not flexing as much, so you're probably seeing it like rock on arms, is what I'm guessing, right? Yeah. I mean, you turn it on the stomach, like you could have the cannula facing the belly button, then the next time, have it face away, and then on and so you get like, four different sites on, at least on either side of the navel. Yeah, yeah.

Peggy 44:38
And we do, I do the stomach as much as possible. But then, you know, he gets adhesive reactions and inflammation where the cannula goes in. So it's like a hard, bumpy thing, and so he gets, it's really painful, yeah, so he'll ask, you know, can we leave my stomach alone for a little while?

Scott Benner 44:55
Okay, I mean, listen, you could, do you think he would use a tube pump? Maybe? I don't know it's, I don't know.

Peggy 45:03
I don't know. We'll see, we'll see. I'm gonna keep, you know, experimenting. I mean, I the two pumps is, you know, I don't know why I'm so like, against it. It's just, it's so convenient. This OmniPod is so convenient. It's easy within. I mean, now we're a year into this, and I can we, he actually does a lot of it now, because I want to teach him how to do stuff. Obviously, we can fill it, change it. I mean, in less than two minutes, you know, and boom, we're out the door, you know, so quick, and it's easy. So

Scott Benner 45:33
I don't know how I would sell a tube pump. Darden, like, I don't think she'd, I don't think she'd bite, honestly,

Peggy 45:39
I don't think he would either.

Scott Benner 45:42
So you think so it's tough. I think she just loves the form factor of it too much. Oh, before I forget, Dr Benito is in Episode 413 it's called thyroid disease explained, and she is just a font of information.

Unknown Speaker 45:58
And thank you. Yeah.

Scott Benner 45:59
So if you really want to understand thyroid, listen to that one I do and and then go check the tests and see because, like, no kidding, it could not be this at all. But there's a world where I've been told Arden's TSH was six, and they said we don't treat it at this number at six every every, every, every symptom. And they're like, We don't I had to, I had to force them to do it. Wow, absolutely forced them to do it. And then early on, we figured out, like, Arden's uptake is not great, so she has to take a t3 as well. And we had it right then she had a problem, and they blamed the t3 when it wasn't the t3 so then she had to live another year, exhausted, until we finally stupid. Went through so many things till we got back to them, going, Oh yeah, it's probably the t3 and then eventually, eventually, I got her to a good I got her to Dr Benito, actually, who managed, she manages my Arden's coals and my wife's thyroids. That's fantastic. Oh, good, good. So, yeah,

Peggy 47:07
well, yeah. I mean, I think it I mean, that's another thing to talk to, you know, to remind people that are listening today, like, keep advocating for yourself. Like, if something doesn't seem right about yourself, or your kids, just keep advocating for yourself, trust your gut. We are taught, I don't know if it's worldwide or it's an American thing, we're taught to trust the medical people with without questioning them. Yeah, right. I was that person, and I still believe they are the experts, right? Like, I want to go to the experts. They know their stuff, but if something doesn't fit with you and something doesn't feel right, like this doesn't seem like the right thing. Keep asking, keep doing research. Talk to moms, talk to other dads, like talk to other people that are dealing with the same thing, because we're living this day to day. Yes, they got their medical degrees, but they're not living this day to day. Or most of them aren't right, like some are to a D, but I don't know, just keep asking, don't you don't have to just blindly trust what people are saying. You're in charge of your health. You're in charge of your kids health. And just keep looking for the answers, because it's out there. Yeah,

Scott Benner 48:13
I think too it's important to remember, like simple things, your stomach's not supposed to hurt. You're not supposed to be exhausted all the time. You can come up with reasons why, oh, I have a young child, or I have that's all fine, but there are plenty of people with young kids that are not exhausted, and there are plenty of people who eat really crappy food and their stomach doesn't hurt, and they eat good food in their stomach doesn't hurt, and everywhere in between. You are not supposed to be agitated all the time. You're not supposed to be anxious all the time, like, there's, there's reasons why thyroid, for example, could help you with those things. Like, my son's first symptom with hypothyroidism was his personality changed, and my wife's did too. I thinking back all the way back to when I actually joked with the doctor at one time, I was like, Look, I now have a whole dog in the backyard. Case I have to kill this lady. Like, like, like, she was, like, she was a problem, you know what I mean, and then that thyroid medication helped her with that. Like, so like, you know, your hair's not supposed to fall out, right? If it does, don't make up an excuse for it. Just, trust me, it's not supposed to fall your blood sugar is not supposed to be 60, and then 350 and then 60, and then 300 that's not just diabetes. Like these are things that there are quantifiable, knowable solutions to, right and to have. If a doctor looks in the face because I don't know, then they're the wrong doctor. Exactly. You got to dig in more. And you know, I just told somebody last night. I didn't Am I didn't ask me anything on Facebook last night. So sometimes when I'm working, I answer, I like, sit at two keyboards. I work at this one, and then I answer questions on that one, and this one person said, like, you know, I'm so afraid for the doctor to, like, yell at me about, like, changing insulin. And I didn't know another answer. I just said I didn't. It's time to pull up your big girl pants and get in the fight. Like, this is, this is what this is like. It just is, if you don't, if you're not adjusting your insulin, and you have type one diabetes, I don't know how you're I don't understand insulin. I think it goes,

Peggy 50:15
I mean, I Yeah, I hear that a lot too. And I think, and I do get intimidated by my Endo. I mean, it sort of feels like the person that like, is giving my child life saving hormone, like, I don't want to piss him off, right? But I also I'm not taking it right, like he a lot of times, and I see some food too well, he'll say stuff. And I'm like, Okay, thank you, right? Like, can I have my prescription? I'm I'm gonna go home and do what I need to do. I mean, so it's not about again, we're taught to they're the experts. We're supposed to do what they say, and within reason, we listen to what they say, but you're living every day. You get to go home and make your own decisions. You don't have to follow it if it's not working, if it's not working, and they're not going to be supportive, figure it out. Yeah, there's a middle

Scott Benner 51:01
ground between blindly. There's blindly listened and there. And if listen, if everything's great, then who cares? Then right on. But if you're seeing problems, you know, you can't skip over maybe the information I'm getting isn't good. That's right, that's just the first and people skip right over that part, and then you end up looking, you know, around blind corners forever for an answer to something. And you, you the answer is right in front of you, just not paying attention to it. You know, like I they're, I've talked to people privately and on here, running around with TSH is in the eights. They are. They clearly have hypothyroidism. Doctors will not give them medication, that's it. And they're like, Well, I don't know what to do. And I'm like, how do you not know what to do? Go find another doctor, right? And don't just switch and then get in there and hope, call another office and say, look, here's my situation. My doctor is resistant. If I switch to you, will you help me with this? Like, make them tell you they're the way they handle these things before you go through the whole process of leaving a doctor and going to another one because you don't want to. I've heard people switching, get to the next doctor, get the same crappy answer again, and then, and then they just, it takes the ass out of them, and they don't have the the energy for it anymore. You know what? I mean? I was

Peggy 52:20
just gonna say, there's a lot of emotional energy that goes into making a doctor's appointment, finding a good doctor. So I get why people don't do it immediately, take a break, you know, and then, you know, reevaluate. You don't have to do everything all at once, but there's no excuse for not doing it, in my opinion. Just telling you, if

Scott Benner 52:39
you're having a heart attack and you ran to an emergency room, you said, I'm happy. Room, you said, I'm having a heart attack. And they said, We don't believe you. I don't think you would just sit on the floor and die. I think you would try to get to a different emergency room. And I don't see this as much different, but, but that's that, that, that um, weariness in the middle. Listen, last night I went grocery shopping with my wife. She opened up the freezer section to grab a box, and the box had a big dent on top of it. I saw her look at the box and think, I don't want the dented box. I'm gonna get the one behind it. She pulled it forward. The next box was dented. And even though the third box wasn't, she gave up and took the

Unknown Speaker 53:14
second dented box.

Scott Benner 53:17
Isn't that so interesting? She was like, I don't want the dented box, but not bad enough to go through two of these to get to the third one. And then she grabbed it. Now, later, I made fun of her, and she said, I didn't notice that the third box wasn't dented. I was like, why didn't you look like, this was important to you? Like, in this little micro cosmos, she had decided no dented box. But then once it got a little hard, she's like, Ah, she took it out of boxes. Yeah. So when that's the world, I don't know how you it's going to be hard to fight through bad doctors and like to pick through the boxes till you get the right one. But you have to, like you just you have to, you have to, it's your health or somebody else's health, right? And take it for me, a person who feels 1,000,000% better today than I did 12 months ago. It's very, very worth it, very it's

Peggy 54:03
super worth it. Oh, absolutely. It's totally worth it. Yeah, well,

Scott Benner 54:07
Peggy, I this has been really wonderful, but I feel like we've covered everything, so I don't want to, I want to drag you through. Are you comfortable that we got to everything? Yeah, I think so, yeah, right. Oh, that's excellent. I really, I really appreciate you doing this. Just, I want to make sure we didn't miss anything. Nothing else you want to talk

Peggy 54:22
about? No, I just wanted to make sure people knew about the digestive enzymes, the magnesium. I got to tell my story about my son and meeting you. And very nice, really, this digestive times,

Scott Benner 54:35
digestive enzymes, and if you can't poop, magnesium oxide. Magnesium, very, very important, not citrate, because there's 1000 different kinds of magnesium. There's glycinate citrate, wildlife, magnesium oxide, yeah, and that that should make you put oxide, yeah, you ain't pooping on that. I don't know something happened.

Peggy 54:58
Are you gonna be a. Touched by type one in Florida again this year. I don't think I'm supposed, can you not tell

Scott Benner 55:04
us the date of it, but I definitely will be there, and I was, I gotta save the date email already so

Peggy 55:11
we got the email as like, participants. It just doesn't say who's coming. Oh

Scott Benner 55:15
yeah, I don't think, well, they don't want to say in case it falls through, like, because people have problems, they get sick, sometimes, stuff like that, when they're going to come and speak. But yeah, no, I'm, I'm I already got to save the date. I love that trip. I think it's great. I love the I think they do such a wonderful job. Honestly, they really do and it's not people are going to be like they advertise on the show, but that's not why they buy an ad on the show. They buy an ad on the show because it gets the word out. I mean, because look as people from Arkansas go to their thing, right? And they find out about, I'm from the Midwest, yeah, it's my friend Marissa is from Arkansas, yeah, yeah. They're just a fantastic organization. They help people with type one. They put a great, a great event on once a year in a beautiful hotel, like it was beautiful, yeah, yeah. Really, just wonderfully done. I'll say with deference to a lot of lovely people that I've met locally that have set up JDRF events. It's the best diabetes event I've ever been to. So, oh, wow. It was my

Peggy 56:11
first one. So I'm glad to hear that. I mean, I've had JDRF events, but yeah, that it was really it's worth another trip down to Florida. We're planning on it beautiful,

Scott Benner 56:19
beautiful time. All right. Thank you so much. Yeah. Thanks, Scott, great to talk to you. You too.

A huge thanks to OmniPod, not just my longest sponsor, but my first one. Omnipod.com/juicebox if you love the podcast and you love tulip insulin pumps, this link is for you. Omnipod.com/juicebox, I was looking for a way that we could all get nice and tanned and meet each other and spend some time talking about diabetes. How are we going to do that on a juice cruise, juice cruise 2025 departs Galveston, Texas on Monday, June 23 2025 it's a five night trip through the Western Caribbean, visiting, of course, Galveston, Costa, Maya and cosmel. Why do we need to be there? Because during the days at sea, we're going to be holding conferences. You can get involved in these talks around type one diabetes, and they're going to be Q and A's plenty of time for everyone to get to talk, ask their questions and get their questions answered. So if you're looking for a nice adult or family vacation, you want to meet your favorite podcast host, but you can't figure out where Jason Bateman lives, so you'll settle for me. If you want to talk about diabetes, or, you know what, maybe you want to meet some people living with type one, or just get a tan with a bunch of cool people. You can do that on juice cruise 2025. Space is limited. Head now to juicebox podcast.com and click on that banner, you can find out all about the different cabins that are available to you and register today. Links in the show notes, links at juicebox podcast.com I hope to see you on board. I want to thank you so much for listening and remind you please subscribe and follow to the podcast wherever you're listening right now, if it's YouTube, Apple podcast, Spotify, or any other audio app, go hit follow or subscribe, whichever your app allows for, and set up those downloads so you never miss an episode, especially an apple podcast, go into your settings and choose, download all new episodes, whether you have a podcast or a band. Rob at wrong way recording can help you wrong wayrecording.com. If you're newly diagnosed, check out the bold beginnings series. Find it at juicebox podcast.com, up in the menu in the featured tab of the private Facebook group, or go into the audio app you're listening in right now and search for juicebox podcast, bold beginnings. Juicebox is one word. Juicebox podcast, bold beginnings. This series is perfect for newly diagnosed people. You.

#1316 Cold Wind: Med Device Sales

Mia has type 1 diabetes and does medical device sales. Her voice has been changed and her identiy concealed.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Scott Benner 0:00
OmniPod, Hello friends, welcome back to another episode of The juicebox podcast.

My guest today, of course, is anonymous, and her voice has been changed to protect her identity. She is a person who has had type one diabetes for over 30 years. We're going to be calling her Mia today for the conversation, and she works from medical device company in sales, nothing you hear on the juicebox podcast should be considered advice medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan when you place your first order for ag one, with my link, you'll get five free travel packs and a free year supply of vitamin D drink. Ag one.com/juice, box. Don't forget to save 40% off of your entire order at cozy earth.com. All you have to do is use the offer code juicebox at checkout. That's juicebox at checkout to save 40% at cozy earth.com if you'd like to help with type one diabetes research, and you have type one diabetes, or you're the caregiver of someone with type one and you're a US resident, all you have to do is go to T 1d exchange.org/juicebox and complete the survey. This should take you about 10 minutes, and your answers will, in fact, help to move type one diabetes research forward. This episode of The juicebox podcast is sponsored by us Med, US med.com/juice box, or call 888-721-1514, us. Med is where my daughter gets her diabetes supplies from, and you could too use the link or number to get your free benefits check and get started today with us. Med, this episode of The juicebox podcast is sponsored by the contour next gen blood glucose meter. Learn more and get started today at contour. Next.com/juicebox Did you know if just one person in your family has type one diabetes, you're up to 15 times more likely to get it too. So screen it like you mean it one blood test. Can spot type one diabetes early, tap now talk to a doctor or visit screened for type one.com for more info. Mia, excellent. Mia, it's nice to meet you, so let's find out a little bit about you, and then we'll figure out why you got on the podcast, and we'll do some chitting and chatting. Why are you here? What made you reach out?

'Mia' 2:43
I think that it is so fascinating to listen to people's stories, their diagnosis stories, and I feel like Mine's kind of different. I mean, maybe it's not, but it seems, for me, it seems different. And I just wanted to share that talk with you know, parents and let them know that their kids are going to be okay. Okay. I think that that's some of the things I listen to and see on the Facebook pages. And, you know, parents obviously are concerned and have every right to be having had diabetes for 30 plus years now, and the way it's evolved, and it's fantastic that we know so much, but I just wanted to be, I don't know, maybe a sound of encouragement for parents to let them know that their kids would

Scott Benner 3:23
be okay. That's very nice. So you've had diabetes for most of your adult life.

'Mia' 3:28
Yes, I was a teenager when I was diagnosed. At that time, 30 plus years ago, we didn't have CGMS or pumps and all that stuff. And yeah, started with NPH and regular had to mix my insulin in syringes. But in fact, I've actually never, ever taken insulin with a pen, because they didn't exist before I got on my first insulin pump, and I've been a pumper ever since, and I've never taken a pump break. So yeah, I've never taken insulin, which is company

Scott Benner 3:59
Martin has never used an insulin pen once. Oh yeah, we got this giant box of insulin needles. And the truth is, is that we use them for, I mean, she was diagnosed at two, so we used them when she was two, when she was three, and then the year she was four, four and a half, she got an OmniPod. And we have, we still can't believe I'm saying this. That was in so 2006 she was diagnosed. We probably stopped using needles in 2008 ish, and we're still going through those needles now.

'Mia' 4:35
Oh yeah, I had boxes of them. And so we move every couple of years with my husband's job, and I finally, literally just got rid of them in this last move. That's so funny.

Scott Benner 4:52
I every time I see them in the drawer, I think, oh my god, I'm gonna die, and these are still gonna be in this drawer.

'Mia' 4:59
You. Yeah. And then just at my last doctor's appointment, I was like, you know, I really need to have a backup supply of, you know, long lasting insulin. And so, of course, you know, he sent me some. And then I got three boxes, three boxes of needles that came with it.

Scott Benner 5:17
Came with it. Uh huh, we don't have any long acting insulin in a vial in this house. And we never have after Arden started pumping, and my wife, once a year, looks at me and says, Don't you think it would be a good idea if we had some basal insulin here, in case something happens to her pump, and I go, there's a pharmacy up the street. I always say the same thing. I'm always like, there's a pharmacy up the street. We have a doctor. It's 2000 whatever it is, we can just send an email or call somebody. I'm like, I don't think it's that important. And she goes, What if it happens in the middle of the night? And I go, well, we'll just inject fast acting until until then. And then she looks very disappointed at me. And then we don't talk about it for about a year. Well,

'Mia' 5:59
I have to say I haven't had it for a really long time either, and it's probably only because of our new kind of living situation that, now that I'm by myself a lot of the time, that I felt like I needed to be more proactive and have that so because I was just like, oh, I'll just use an old pump, you know, if my current pump goes bad, then I'll just Use one of my old models that I still have in a box. I'm like, Oh, I'll be fine. But now that I'm by myself for a lot of the time, I was like, I really need to be a little bit more proactive.

Scott Benner 6:30
I'm going to say one more thing, but then I'll get back to that for you. So we literally just two days ago, had this thing happen where Arden's been riding a phone for a very long time trying to keep it going because she liked the color and, you know, like, and I'm like, Arden, listen, you know, using an algorithm, you know, a do it yourself algorithm, like it lives on your phone, like, we can't have your phone be this just terrible, like, janky thing, like, it needs to be stable. So she finally said, okay, you know, I think you're right. I think we should replace this phone. Okay, so we have two things to do two days ago. We're gonna get our eyebrows threaded, her and I together, and then we were thinking of coming home and hanging out for a little bit. I was gonna do some work, and then we were gonna go out to the Apple store and get her a new phone. And so it's this, you know, it's kind of how we had the day planned out. So we go get threaded. I look fantastic, by the way. And then we came back, and we, like, seriously, pulled up to our home, and she's like, so when are we going to do the phone? I'm like, I don't know, a few hours from now or something. She goes, Oh, that's great, you know, because my pump is going to expire in a couple of hours, and like, match it up. Oh my god, it's fantastic. I swear to you, sitting in the car, she tried to give herself insulin for something, and there was an error in the pump, and it shut off. Oh no. And so we looked at each other, and I said, Oh, I guess we're gonna go get that phone right now. And because, because she was like, oh god, what's gonna happen here? I said, Oh, you're gonna go in the house, put on a pod. We're gonna go to the store, we're gonna come back with the phone, and you're gonna have to swap the pod again. And she's like, I don't want to do that. I don't want to do that. I said, Do you trust me? And she goes, why? And I said, Let's go inside, take off the pod, and I'm gonna, like, her blood sugar was like, 130 It was exactly 130 that's why we were bolusing. I was like, I think if we inject, and I was like, Oh, the mall, like, 20 minutes from here, and it'll probably take us, like, 45 minutes to get the phone and then come home, like two hours. I'm like, Let's inject a unit and a half of insulin, and then just go. And she goes, All right, so we go in the house, and I pull out the insulin into the needle, and I'm like, No, you know what? Let's do two. I'm gonna do three. And she goes, How did you go from a unit and a half to three units? And she says, I didn't see you do any math at all. And I was like, I'm like, Well, I mean, the insulin is not really gonna start working for 20 minutes or so, and it's not going to peak for a while, and you're already 130 and we're going to walk around the mall a little bit. And I was like, let's just do these three units. And she goes, whatever, man, let's go. So we just injected the three units, and we left for them all, and we came home, and I downloaded the app onto her phone and got it all set up and everything. And, you know, the Dexcom, we were able to, like, you know, get going and everything's going. We tested her, and she was 98 oh, and I didn't say anything, because when she was younger, I might have celebrated for a second, but like, now I just was like, okay, like, just let her soak up that I was that you were right, so incredibly right about this, you know, anyway, why don't you live near home anymore?

'Mia' 9:43
With my husband's job, we move often, and when we got to this new place, there were no positions available. I'm a dietician and a diabetes educator. The only dietician jobs that I could find were working at a nursing. Home, okay, and I started to do that. I got a job, and it just wasn't for me. I really love diabetes technology. I love teaching people how to use it, and I had wanted to work for a specific pump company for a while. Told my husband that I was going to try for it, and he was on board, and lo and behold, I got the position

Scott Benner 10:25
from the very beginning. Your kids mean everything to you. That means you do anything for them, especially if they're at risk. So when it comes to type one diabetes screen, it like you mean it, because even if just one person in the family has it, your child is up to 15 times more likely to get it too. Screen it like you mean it, because type one diabetes can develop at any age, and once you get results, you can get prepared for your child's future. So screen it like you mean it. Type one starts long before there are symptoms, but one blood test could help you to spot it early before they need insulin, and could lower the risk of serious complications like diabetic ketoacidosis or DKA. Talk to your doctor about how to screen for type one diabetes, because the more you know, the more you can do. So don't wait, tap now or visit screen for type one.com to learn more. Again, that screen for type one.com screen, it like you mean it.

'Mia' 11:26
And so now I have an apartment in one part of the state, and I'm in the other state, so I have

Scott Benner 11:33
that. Do you think that right now, people listening are going, huh? They won't say her name and her voice has been altered. I wonder what's about to happen, because I have to tell you something. I don't know what you're going to say, and I am absolutely sitting on spokes. Do you know that one?

'Mia' 11:54
It's not so much. I think, like there's nothing with the company. It's just my satisfaction, and my eyes were opened to how big, basically, it's still a pharma company, right? There's still money that needs to be made. And my ideal was that I was going to be able to go and teach people how to use their product and walk away and have, like, a relationship with the patients. And yes, sometimes I still can, but that's not the focus, okay, that's not the focus of the company. I mean, it is, don't get me wrong, they it's a fantastic company, but it's just more than it's not, it's not what I was hoping to do. I'm still expected to, you know, be in front of providers asking for the sale, which, of course, that's what they need, right? I don't want for companies to not make money, because if they don't make money, then they're not going to create good products. And if they don't create good products, who's going to suffer me, right? I'm going to be the one that's, that's, you know, I'm suffering in that situation, and so I understand all of that from a financial point of view, but I really wanted to just focus on patient care, and that's not necessarily truly the case. Okay,

Scott Benner 13:13
so I'm trying to figure out what you're talking about here. So first of all, I'm laughing, because in my head, I think the all the pump companies just heard that, like, oh, hopefully she'll say something that indicates it's not us. The truth is very likely that this would apply to any device manufacturer or pharma company or anything like in the end, like at the end of the chain, right from scientist, engineer thinking something up to, you know, finance guys going out in the world and getting money to, you know, put it together, and the years and time, and the FDA approval and everything that happens to get it out to market. The end of that chain is sales. It does not help if they created the greatest whatever in the world, if nobody knows about it. And you know, insulin pumps are already not as widely adopted among type ones as you would imagine they are.

'Mia' 14:03
Oh, yeah, exactly. I mean, our biggest competition is not the other pump companies. It's the patients on MDI. Are multiple daily injections. And so that's really who they're, who they're trying to compete with, compete with, you know, and that is totally fine, and all of that is good to do, but I wanted to be able to go in and talk with the patient and provide the education and let them know, you know, hey, this is, you know, this is what we what we can do. This is how I can help you go to the providers and say, Look, this is where they're at. This is what I can do. But I'm not. I'm not able to do things clinically. I can't make insulin recommendations, like if the doctor asks me, then yes, I can provide that information, but if they don't, and they don't want to follow back. Up or anything like that. Then, then I can't say anything. But

Scott Benner 15:03
now that's not your company's rule, right? That's FDA, isn't it?

'Mia' 15:07
Yes, exactly. I mean, it is, it's, it's, it's, I am. I'm there to teach the patient how to use their product,

Scott Benner 15:14
the buttons, and what this means and what this menu does, and etc, but exactly

'Mia' 15:19
and how to use it, but not to clinically manage. And yes, it's, it's more of a FDA, I don't know for sure that's an FDA thing, but it's, it's, we're not allowed to because, basically, we're not prescribing, right? We're not able to prescribe, so we can't, we can't manage patients clinically, right? So I really missed that more than I thought I was going

Scott Benner 15:42
to. You knew that was going to happen right when you took the job. I did

'Mia' 15:46
know that it was going to happen, but I guess I just didn't know how many people would be asking me, and how many providers necessarily don't know how to do pump setting.

Scott Benner 15:56
Okay, so now we're getting into it. So you thought this is a great job like, I want to support a company that, you know, supports people with type one diabetes. I can use my degree and my knowledge to help then you, you know, apply for the job. Obviously, you start to understand that this is not exactly, you know, you're not gonna be able to use your your talents that way. But there's other, plenty of other ways I'll be good with this until you get into a room over and over again with a clueless doctor and a person in need, and you have to sit there with a Barbie look on your face and go, I'm sorry, but I can't answer that question. Yes, and that's soul crushing. Soul crushing. Yeah, the contour next gen blood glucose meter is sponsoring this episode of The juicebox podcast, and it's entirely possible that it is less expensive in cash than you're paying right now for your meter through your insurance company. That's right. If you go to my link, contour, next.com/juicebox you're going to find links to Walmart, Amazon, Walgreens, CVS, Rite, aid, Kroger and Meyer, you could be paying more right now through your insurance for your test strips in meter than you would pay through my link for the contour next gen and contour next test strips in cash. What am I saying? My link may be cheaper out of your pocket then you're paying right now, even with your insurance. And I don't know what meter you have right now. I can't say that, but what I can say for sure is that the contour next gen meter is accurate. It is reliable, and it is the meter that we've been using for years, contour next.com/juice box. And if you already have a contour meter and you're buying test strips, doing so through the juicebox podcast link will help to support the show. I have always disliked ordering diabetes supplies. I'm guessing you have as well. It hasn't been a problem for us for the last few years, though, because we began using us Med, you can to us med.com/juice box, or call 888-721-1514, to get your free benefits. Check us. Med has served over 1 million people living with diabetes since 1996 they carry everything you need, from CGMS to insulin pumps and diabetes testing supplies and more. I'm talking about all the good ones, all your favorites, libre three, Dexcom, g7 and pumps like OmniPod five, OmniPod dash, tandem, and most recently, the I let pump from beta bionics, the stuff you're looking for, they have it at us. Med, 888-721-1514, or go to us. Med.com/juice box. To get started now use my link to support the podcast. That's us med.com/juice box, or call 888-721-1514,

'Mia' 18:53
it is. It's. I mean, it really is. It's so hard to watch this happen and patients don't know what they don't know, I'm trying to then teach them how to use a product, how to advocate for themselves, and how to like like, lead them in a way. Ask your doctor about changing this setting. Ask your doctor about, you know, making adjustments to you know this or that, and if they're able to one, remember that two have the time with their provider when they go back in again to do that. And it's just, it's so it's so hard to watch and be a part of it breaks my heart. And then they're asking me specifically, what would you do in this situation, and

Scott Benner 19:41
then you go, I can't answer that question. Yeah. Or do you ever get like, Listen, you start whispering. Do you go, here's what I would do to make the insulin sensitivity like, three points more aggressive. Now, aggressive is a lower number. I know that's crazy here. Like, do you ever like, do. The thing you're not supposed to do. No comment.

'Mia' 20:04
I strongly tell them, like, you can make the changes when, when I leave this room, and like, if you know how to make the changes you and you've talked to your doctor, you know I always have to tell them to talk to their doctor. Always, always. I mean, I haven't given them specific numbers on that, because I, one, I don't want to lose my job, and two, just, I just can't do that.

Scott Benner 20:28
So, but the system has it set up so that a person like yourself who could really be valuable to this, this other person's life. We're now with them. We got them the tools. We taught them what the buttons do, and what we need now are three more sentences to really straighten this person's life up with diabetes, give them control and better health and all of this stuff, take away the anxiety, etc, all of that. It's all right there. And then we just, we're not allowed to do that, yeah? So that that doesn't happen. Then what happens? They go back. Do you even see them again after that? No,

'Mia' 21:03
I call them or I text them a few days later, make sure that the product is working correctly and that they don't have any questions about it. If they have any blood sugar questions, I have to direct them back to their doctor. Yeah, I

Scott Benner 21:17
was gonna say that caller text is a sales tactic, right? It's a the company really cared about me, the person called back,

'Mia' 21:24
it might be, I mean, I don't know. I mean, maybe that's how it came across. I mean, for myself, I really genuinely care about them, and I really want to make sure they're doing okay. I

Scott Benner 21:33
don't doubt that, but your company, but part of your process is to follow up, yes, and if you actually can't. So basically the follow up is, do you know where all the buttons are? And, yeah, and, but there I'm telling you that from a sale like, probably from a sales perspective, their takeaway is, company B really cares about me. After I got all set up, they, they the lovely woman I met. She called back and tried one more and checked on me. And so I get that, because it really is, but you know what it's like to be me? How about that? I didn't realize that.

'Mia' 22:04
Yeah, I know exactly, and I've thought about you many of times, because I know you've talked about trying to get into, like a hospital setting to provide education for people, and then as soon as they find out you don't have credentials that, they just say no, right? And so I really, I really feel for you and that situation. I mean, you have a fantastic platform, and you know how to help people you know, and your hands are tied sometimes. And so with me having having the credentials of an RD and a diabetes educator, I have to be really careful, because I could lose my credentials. I should have those taken away. And so I don't want for that to happen at all. And yeah, so I'm, I've, I've determined that I'm going to go back to school and I'm going to become a PA, a physician assistant, so I can't do those things nice so, but that's, that's what I Well, I'm in the process of applying. Hopefully, I could get into a school for PA, for PA school, okay? Because then I could actually answer the questions. I could help manage patients clinically. I could help, you know, write scripts for patients. I could adjust settings, you know, I could do all of those things where my hands are tied at this point, but

Scott Benner 23:24
you couldn't, even if you're a PA, you can't do it through that job you have now, though, no, no, right, yeah, no. Meaning, if those companies hired pas, they'd still be restricted the same way you are. Right?

'Mia' 23:37
Yes. So we have to take our clinical hat off and put on our, like, training hat, so and so that was, you know. And of course, they were telling you all this in training. And, you know, the training was fantastic. You know, all of that is there. And they tell you all of that stuff, but it's just, I guess I just didn't really, day to day how much it would impact me in those situations.

Scott Benner 24:02
Yeah, so when I jump on this podcast and I say something that sounds outlandish, like I figured out a way to help people, but I'm tormented by the fact that I can't reach more people. You understand what I'm saying, whereas I think there's sometimes people would hear that and just go, he just wants this podcast to be bigger so we can sell more ads, or something like that. But that's not really how I feel. Like what i you i just feel like, wow, we found a way to help people. It works, and now there's always another step. Well, how do you get it to them? And for you, it's I found the person they're here. They've got this amazing device, they've got clinical care, they have everything they need except the the map to put all of it into play. They just don't know how to do that. I know this is going to be just, you know, not accurate, but every 10 doctors you meet, how many of them are good at setting up pumps?

'Mia' 24:52
Maybe two or three.

Scott Benner 24:55
Are they generally type ones or not necessarily?

'Mia' 24:58
No, they're not necessarily. And. Seen it. I shouldn't say they don't know how to push the buttons, because there's they're just too they're they're too busy doing other things, taking care of the patient. So that's where we come in. But the ones that know how to do the settings, they're very few and far between, like know how to really understand what's going on the settings and why you want to have a duration at this point, or, you know, duration of insulin action time for this or that, and you know the ins and outs of things. And the pediatric doctors probably know that a lot better, because they're probably dealing more with the type ones. But if for adult patients that are type one, they necessarily don't, don't have a provider that necessarily knows that. I mean, some do, but not often based

Scott Benner 25:50
on your interactions to an outsider, right? Who doesn't have diabetes isn't a doctor, they would look at this scenario and say, This doesn't make any sense that an endocrinologist is specifically to help people with endocrine issues. Diabetes is a big part of their job. Probably. How is it possible? I always use the same thing, like, example, over and over again, but like, you don't go to a tire place to buy tires and expect to find a person is like, Man, I know what the lug gun does, but I'm not real comfortable getting the tire on and off of the wheel like that. So we're gonna have to bring in someone from the tire company to do that part. But then I'm gonna send you home and put the tires back on your car yourself, because I don't want to get involved in that. I'm not very good at that part. Like it's a crazy thing. Is it not like, did you think? Listen, you've had diabetes forever, so I imagine you've had a couple of endos along the way, and probably a couple of good ones. But did you really think that when you got in here it was going to be, you were going to find what you found? No, I

'Mia' 26:51
had no idea that it was going to be the to this extent. To this extent, yeah. Okay,

Scott Benner 26:55
so based on your experience when I started up the Grand Rounds series this year. By the way, I got mostly people, people with type one you know, were, were mostly like, Oh, this is great. Like, this is the stuff doctors should be telling us. And but I still got my fair share of like, oh, when you started that doctor bashing series, I was like, again, if the guy couldn't get the tires back in my car, and I went and told people, hey, look, I wouldn't go to this tire place. Like, I didn't even know how to use the lug gun. He doesn't know how to get the tires. Doesn't know how to get the tires off the wheels, and he doesn't know how to put them. Like, I wouldn't be tire bashing. I'd be leaving a reasonable review of a person who told me they were going to swap my tires. But then in the end, we're like, I can't really do that for you. So like, I don't see it that way. And I also think that people must think that like, oh, Scott's taking an example from like, one person's story, but most of the doctors out there probably really know what they're doing. He's finding the ones who don't to make a point. And I'm not. I, first of all, people just tell their stories and up to me what they're gonna say when they come on the podcast. I don't stop people from coming on here based on how they manage, how they eat, what they think, nothing. People just come on, as a matter of fact, Mia, I am still waiting for someone just to get on this podcast and be like, You're an asshole, and I came on to talk about it. I'm like, All right, cool. Like, I'd be like, fine, whatever, you know, but like, point being is that I'm not filtering who's coming on, and I'm not filtering what's going out you guys here within, you know, a couple of like, crazy things that have happened over the years every recording I make, right? And overall, people don't come on to say, My God, my doctor's fantastic. What a lovely person. And you should see my five and AFA one saying, I know how to bolus for French fries, and I know how to bolus for being low carb. That's not what happens. So three out of 10 maybe?

'Mia' 28:41
Yeah, it's crazy. It's crazy.

Scott Benner 28:45
So is that part of what makes you hate the job? You do hate the job, right? It's

'Mia' 28:49
a really strong word. I love when I get to to work with the patients, it's a lot of the extra stuff, the sales. You know that part of it, I don't, I don't care for I just want to help patients get better and teach them. I would love to be able to just say, Okay, this is how we're going to make the adjustments. Give me two weeks with them, and you know, then I could help them 100% give them more education, how you bolus for this, how you bowl this for that. But that's just not, that's not how it's done, that's not how we function. And so it makes it it just makes it really hard, makes it really challenging. And you know, why

Scott Benner 29:30
do you think you have that knowledge? Is it because of your professional background, because of your diabetes life? Is it a mix? Why I think it's

'Mia' 29:38
a mix? I mean, before you know, I've been a dietitian for a long time, but didn't get enough hours working professionally to become a CD diabetes educator until 2018 I started progressing in my my my jobs, and I worked in urban clinics, and I've worked in rural clinics. And I've seen just a lot of different backgrounds, of people dealing with diabetes, you know, I've had patients that are homeless, and I've had patients that are living in shelters, and patients that live out in the middle of nowhere and don't have access to the internet, you know, and so, so it's just all of those things. So it's just really tried to drive me to figure out, you know, how to help them the best, and just listening to their stories and reading and following people and watching things you know, just kind of makes me want to learn more about how I can help people. So yeah, I think it would be a combination of both. And then my experiences with not having technology at the beginning, and how we functioned, and how much better my control has gotten over the years, because I've made changes and because I've done things differently. I think that's kind of where I get a lot of my knowledge

Scott Benner 30:57
from my point in bringing that up is that, I mean, I could easily, like, turn my hat around right and argue well, even if they were allowed to give this information, it would be incredibly difficult to train up that many people to actually be able to disseminate that information well and leave people with a firm understanding, especially in short visits, even if it was over a couple of weeks. But as I would argue that away, I would tell you, like, you know, I help people, and I don't even know who they are. Like, I don't, I don't see them, I don't know their situation. And yet, a grand amount of people come out of this podcast with something, an idea, you know, that helps them pull things together. I think that's the disconnect, is that idea that that what you're trying to do is turn all the dobs exactly where they belong, explain to them exactly how to cover all their food and what to do in all the situations. And people would say, Well, I can't possibly do that. I can't explain every food choice. I can't explain activity versus not activity. I can't explain to them when to take off their pump to go swimming if they're on a tube pump, but don't forget to put it back on because, you know, like all the little details that you feel like you need to know, I think that a company or academics could get held up thinking if I don't leave them with a firm understanding of every one of these myriad of variables, then we can't say anything. And what I've learned is that if you explain to them properly that it's really all about the timing and amount of insulin they're using, and that that idea applies to everything from activity to food to inactivity and etc, then they can have these experiences in their life. They learn from it, and before you know it, they wake up a few months later and like, yeah, my a, 1c, like, six, two, and I don't get low very often, crazy, I swear to you, yeah, you're all overthinking it, yeah, it's timing and amount, that's it. Yeah?

'Mia' 32:57
I mean, I agree, and I think that, you know, people are afraid of insulin, right? I mean, you have well, so it's a huge, a huge issue. So I think one we have to think about, where do patients go for their care, right? They aren't able to get in to see endocrinologists because there's not enough endocrinologists around. The wait is six months, right? Some places longer, other places, they can't get there because they don't live close enough. I mean, so there's all of those issues, right? The access to care, all of that is so then they're going to the primary care doctors, and the primary care doctors don't have enough time, or they don't have the specialty knowledge about diet insulin, so they're giving people a fixed dose, right? They're giving them here take eight units with this meal, you know, every day. Well, that might work for a meal that has, you know, some carbohydrates, and, you know, maybe a minimal amount, depending on what their ratio is. But nobody's figuring that out for them. Nobody's telling them that. They're just saying, Take this amount. Yeah, well, all it takes is one instance where they take, you know, the amount of insulin, and maybe they only have a salad, right? So they have a salad, and then they have a really scary low. And so then it's,

Scott Benner 34:08
they still think they're eight units like they're told to do it a meal, right? Exactly,

'Mia' 34:12
and it's too much, right? So then they're afraid to take insulin because they had this really bad low experience. And think it's just the insulin fault? Well, I mean, yes, it was because of insulin, but it's not just insulins. Because you weren't told to eat enough food to cover that, or you were told to take this fixed dose, and that's all you take, right? And so then the patient ends up at the bad low and then they don't want to take any insulin, and

Scott Benner 34:37
that's it. So everyone who's given incomplete understanding is eventually going to run into a scary incident, and that scary incident is very likely going to stop them from taking as much insulin as they need. And then you tumble down that rabbit hole to health issues, right,

'Mia' 34:54
exactly. And I just feel so strongly for those patients that something has. To be done better. We have to treat them better, right? They have to have better access to knowledge, to technology, to care, and that is where it, just like breaks my heart, that those people that went I don't mean that those people in a bad way, but people that are in a situation where they are only have access to their primary care doctor, and they only get 10 minutes with them at a visit, and they have other things going on as well, but Plus, they're trying to manage their insulin levels, our insulin amounts. And it's, it's just, it's a nightmare. It's,

Scott Benner 35:32
what's the answer? What's the answer? Yeah, you don't know. You don't know, right? You're in the middle of the fight. You don't know the exact answer. Well, my thought is

'Mia' 35:40
that, you know patients, they just need more education, right? We totally need education. But then how do we? How do we give that to them? How do we, how do we have time for them? So my goal is to hopefully be able to be a PA where I can work in a primary care clinic and take all of their diabetes patients be the diabetes specialist for them in their primary care clinic, and take the time to see them and offer education classes. But diabetes doesn't pay, right? So that's the other thing. Is that insurance doesn't necessarily reimburse for providers very much. Those diagnoses may not bring in as much money. Diabetes educators don't bring in a lot of money, so it's all of that stuff together that really, I think is such a I don't know the right words, but it just makes me upset.

Scott Benner 36:30
I know you, I could tell you're flustered and it is upsetting. Listen, I'm upset by it every day. So fair enough. We should spread it around on other people a little bit. Do you really think that's going to happen? Like, are you going to take the time to become a PA and then go out in the world and find a bunch of doctors? Are going to be like, Look, I can't afford to pay you because I can't build that well, and I can't let you spend that much time with people because I can't bill it. And aren't you just going to get flustered again?

'Mia' 36:57
I might. I may. I mean, very well. I talked with my husband about this all the time. He's like, Are you sure you want to do this? You're gonna run into the same situation where people aren't being able to pay and, you know, or whatever. And I said, Yeah, but I said, I can't stay in healthcare and not have the ability to do the next step. Here's

Scott Benner 37:17
another potential problem. So you'll eventually say, Okay, well, I'll help the people who can afford it, and then you're gonna realize that you're only helping a certain sector of people, and then it's gonna get right back in your head, like, well, all those other people who were disenfranchised that I wanted to help before, I'm not helping them now, because I can't spend the time, because they can't pay and nothing changed. I just made a lot of middle aged, white ladies better.

'Mia' 37:43
Yes, I do think about that. Yeah. I mean, I really, I mean, in a perfect world, I would be able to help, you know, everybody, obviously, I think us as caregivers and people that know this information, they want to do that. And so yes, I may have very high in the sky ideal attitude about all of this, about how I can help people, but I mean, surely there's got to be something better. There's got to be a way. And if I don't stop what I'm doing and try and make that difference, then how do I expect anybody else to do

Scott Benner 38:19
that? No, I don't listen. First of all, you should absolutely put your effort where it makes you fulfilled, and you're not going to save everybody. I was playing devil's advocate a little bit, but it's true, because

'Mia' 38:29
I'm in my, you know, I'm in my midlife, and I'm about to maybe embark on this huge financial commitment of taking on going to PA school. I mean, it's not going to be cheap. And are we willing to do that? And hopefully I can get finished, and then, you know, as as long as my husband is still working, you know, I'll be able to pay off the school loans, because I don't have 100 grand just sitting around to pay for it. May

Scott Benner 38:53
I say something, this isn't directed at you, but like, help me spitball this idea. So my podcast is very popular, okay? And it's popular, because people come on and talk about all the things that you just outlined that people need to know, that nobody's able to talk about in a clinical setting, right? And that hurts people, but it also hurts the company selling the stuff, because what the rest of you don't understand, that I'm guessing Mia knows is that you put this like state of the art pump in someone's hand, and they go home and they don't know how to use it well, and then when their blood sugars get low or high or they bounce around, what they say is, this thing doesn't work. They don't say, I don't know how to do diabetes. I don't understand how insulin works. My Settings are all wrong. My doctor sucks. They just say, this pump I just got, it doesn't work. It's supposed to keep my blood sugar stable, and it doesn't. And then eventually those people will leave that pump, try a different pump, or to go back to MDI, or whatever they're going to do. Wouldn't it make sense for pump companies to start like to fund? To another business full of people like you to go help people, because, in the end, that's part of the reason why some of them buy ads on my podcast, because if they keep this podcast going, then people understand management better, and they're more likely to stick with their stuff once they have it.

'Mia' 40:17
Oh, I agree with you. 100% Yeah, 100%

Scott Benner 40:19
I don't, by the way, I don't think of that as a dirty secret of the podcast. I think it's pretty obvious, if you pay attention to it, but, but that's one of my value points for advertisers, is that as long as I'm making this podcast, a mass amount of people who are likely going to find their products are going to know how to use them and stay on them. Oh yeah. I mean, I don't know, like, I don't want to spend other people's money. I don't know how much these companies make, right? And some of them make crazy money, and some of them don't. But if you took a couple of percent of your of your money and started it's, it doesn't even have to be a brick and mortar business, right? You just hire a bunch of people like you, and then after you put them on the pump, say, Look, we have this other business over here. It's, you know, it's healthcare provided your will take your insurance. If we don't take your insurance, you can, you know, you can submit afterwards, like make it easy for them, and basically do what Jenny does for a living, except, except have a bigger company behind it. Oh,

'Mia' 41:15
yeah, I agree with you 100% because what I see is providers then don't have time to make all those setting adjustments all the time, right? And some participations need to be seen more frequently than the providers can see them for those adjustments and tweaks and teaching them how to use, you know, extended boluses if they're going to do that, or, you know, just whatever, whatever it is,

Scott Benner 41:42
yeah, sometimes it's about having a conversation. Sometimes it's about jumping on a call for 15 minutes and just saying, Look, you know, we keep having this meal and it keeps going poorly. Can I just walk you through it so personally the other end can go, wait, wait, stop. Did you say this? Oh, yeah, you should have maybe thought about that, and, you know, or we could have extended this longer or made a larger bolus here. Or have you tried going for a walk after you eat? Like, all the things that a person's not going to think of that you could, like, you see it happen in my Facebook group constantly, right? Like, there's, by the way, there's a reason, there's a reason that the podcast is super popular, and so is the Facebook group. And it's because people, in the beginning listen to the podcast. They listen to me talk about diabetes. They upped their game. Then they got into a space, and they were like, Oh, I'll answer these people's questions. It's see one, teach one, but digitally. Yeah, exactly right. No, no, trust me, I know I got this whole thing worked out. Just nobody listens to me. Well, the people listen, listen. I'm talking. You know what I'm saying anyway. So like, you go into the group and you say this, like, I don't know, like, I had this happen, and I don't know what to do. And every once in a while, like a like a keyboard Crusader, will come in and be like, you could just search the group for that answer. And I come in and I say, No, don't do that. Like, you want this conversation to happen, because, from an outsider perspective, have a limited understanding of what I see, as far as the numbers are. So like, when someone posts something and you think, Oh God, this is asked and answered 10 times in here already. Like, just search. I don't want anybody searching. I want the conversation to happen over and over again. Because what you don't see, you know, from the outside, you'll see, you know, four people having a conversation. Five more people come in. In the end, you think, oh, there's nine people here. What a waste of time. Blah, blah, blah. I've seen this conversation a million times. You can't see what I see, which is how many people see the posts? And it's 1000s and 1000s and 1000s of people. Yeah. So you have that conversation over and over again. Now you're helping a person who never asked the question, didn't have to answer in the Facebook group, didn't have to even like, like, put their hand up and say, I don't understand. And they walk away with the knowledge. They take it back to their house. They try it a few times till it works, and then they're good. And it's just, it's so freaking simple. It's frustrating to me. Look at me. Your your frustration is now on me. God damn it, and it's early, it's gonna ruin my whole day. I'll tell you that right now.

'Mia' 44:06
Sorry, sorry. It's just been like, you see it over and over and over again. And, you know, I have people that will ask me about, like, I, you know, my own Facebook group, but usually during the month of November, I'll post stuff about, you know, Diabetes Awareness. Over the years, people have come up to me or, you know, sent me messages, like, I just saw this doctor, and they told me my a 1c, was 9.5 and they refused to give me test strips. They don't want me to check my blood sugar. They just want me to come back in three months with, you know, they put me on Metformin, and I'm like, You need to check your blood sugar. Well, they won't give me a meter. I'm like, well, then you need to ask for one. So, you know? And I'm trying to teach people how to advocate for themselves and how to how to do all these things. I'm like, why are we waiting three months? Why are we all. The patient who has an A 1c of 9.5 wait three months and just hope that Metformin works. Low

Scott Benner 45:05
expectation. Having motherfers is a thing I heard in a movie one time. Yeah, I don't know what it's from, but that's it like, I

'Mia' 45:13
mean, their blood sugar is already so high, right? A 9.5 what they're sitting at, I don't know. I can't even remember all the numbers and what they equate to. But just like, that's just not fair for that person to have to wait three months. And we know that Metformin, yes, it is the first line of defense, but once you're higher than, you know, nine, I think that I can't remember the standards off the top of my head, but you know, you're supposed to start all these other things, if not before

Scott Benner 45:41
well. So the problem is, is that everyone's limited. So everyone has it, everyone every touch point you have with a person, right? Is a person who works for somebody and is limited by something. I'm the only one who's not limited, because nothing you hear on the juicebox podcast should be considered advice medical or otherwise, always consult your physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan. So there. So now I come on and I say, Look, this is what I do with my daughter, or I interview you. And I say, Hey, tell me what you did, and you tell me, and then other people hear it. This is the only current outlet that is actually able to say things out loud that people might find valuable. And you, you can say to them, like, I'm going to treat you like an adult here, like everyone's not going to understand. I get that over and over again. God, for years I've been saying this. You can't not tell everybody the secret, because you think some of them won't understand it. Because it's not that big of a secret. It's, it's the amount of insulin, and when you use it, timing and amount, timing and amount in every situation. I swear to God, I haven't said this in a long time. Everybody would be mad at me if this happened, but the podcast should be four minutes long. It should be music and me introducing myself and going, Hey, everything about your insulin use is timing and amount. Apply that to every situation. I'll see you later. That's it, right? Obviously, there's more details, and you can have bigger conversations, and that's where people learn, right? It's campfire stories, like you tell the campfire stories. That's how people learn and but the fact that you have so many people, it's your doctor who doesn't know or is limited by time or knowledge. It's the nurse practitioner who doesn't know, or is limited by time, by knowledge. It's the fact that the pump company can't help you, your CGM manufacturer is not going to speak to you about any of this like there's everyone has set themselves up in an insulated bubble where they're not in charge of telling you how to actually use this stuff, and therefore there's no one in charge of that, right? And so then what? Then? My point is, what's the rush? Two months? Three months, come back? What's it matter? They're never gonna figure that out like so it doesn't matter. That's where the horror is in this idea that your pancreas stopped functioning the way that it's supposed to You are now on a different life trajectory than other people. You don't get to be as healthy as everybody else you lost. That's how you get treated, and that's my biggest problem with it. Not, yeah, you don't even 100%

'Mia' 48:11
Yeah, 100% Yeah. It's this clinical inertia that doesn't, you know, change. Nothing's changing, and we're just okay with that. But I, you know, and then I'm like, the patient shouldn't have to feel that way, right? So, crap, when you're that high, and you know, they don't, may not even know it, right? Because they've felt bad for so long, and they don't even know it until they start having good blood sugar control, and they're like, oh my gosh, I have energy now, oh my goodness, I can think clearer. I can do things that I didn't know I was missing out on, and so we're limiting the patients from having that opportunity, and just complications are just going to keep getting worse if we don't make changes earlier on.

Scott Benner 48:54
It's an underlying attitude of dead man walking. Yeah, you got diabetes. Oh, wow, this ain't gonna go good for you. I'll tell you right now, because I can't tell you what to do because, you know the FDA. And that guy over there, he can't tell you what to do because, you know, he don't know. And that lady over there, she's not allowed, and that's, ooh, yeah, your ANC is gonna get higher. You're gonna get foggy in your head. You're not gonna be yourself anymore. You'll probably have complications later. I'd help you, but sorry and like that's really what's happening. It sounds so harsh, because I don't think that's what anyone's actual mindset is, but I do think that it's what happens. Agree, yeah, it's what happens. Because at some point in every person's conversation that they have in their own head, whether it's somebody who works at a pump company who's not allowed to tell people how to use insulin, if it's a doctor who didn't bother learning, you know, somehow calls himself an endocrinologist, but doesn't understand how to adjust basal and everyone in between, all of those people, at some point, make a deal with themselves to not worry about it. They get to the. Into that thought, they go, Oh, I really I'm not helping as much as I should have. But. And then there's always the but that writes it off. I'm not allowed to. That's not my job. It's not my place. I don't want to scare anybody like they'll there's that excuse that stops you from feeling bad about it. Yeah. And then we just all go off and do a half ass job for people, and they get to live half assed lives and then they die. But okay, well, I wasn't allowed to tell them, yeah, I'm not okay with that. Like, that's the the entire crux of the podcast, like going back 10 years now, is that I'm not okay with that. I know I say this too much, but It's recently been been a thing that's back under my my saddle a little bit is when I started making this podcast a prominent person in the diabetes community, and I'm making air quotes around that, because, you know, just because you make content and say you're you know about diabetes, doesn't mean you're actually helping anybody literally came to me and said, It is dangerous for you to share how your daughter uses insulin and how she lives her life With diabetes. You can't do that, and 10 years later, I don't honestly know how many 10s of 1000s of, maybe hundreds of 1000s of people have been helped by this podcast. Common thinking would have been shut your mouth. Don't tell them. They don't get to know, you know, that's a nice thing for you. You don't say it to other people. That's how people think. Yeah, so there you go. Now, I'm been now you've made me cynical on top of angry.

'Mia' 51:28
You know, you see it day in and day out, and it's just it's so hard to watch. And, you know, I feel like there's more that I can do to help people, right? There's more that I can do

Scott Benner 51:40
listen. I have your notes from your intake. Can we switch gears pretty harshly, since we're already saying things people aren't going to like, I have a question about something. Might as well make me unlikable. On another topic too, sure, in your initial intake, you said binge eating like you just like, why did you want to talk about an eating disorder.

'Mia' 52:01
So when I was initially diagnosed, you know, back a long time ago, we didn't have all the stuff to tell us things, and so I would have high blood sugars no matter what I did. Like, if I ate salad, I would have high blood sugar. I would, you know, I we didn't know, of course, as much as we know now. So, so then I would just eat whatever I would want. I would eat ice cream. I'm like, I would just, I literally would go and get the little pints of ice cream, and I would just eat it. Because I'm like, Well, my blood sugar's going to be high anyway, so I'm just going to eat whatever I want. Um, it doesn't matter what I do. So I would just eat, like, binge eat food, and then see what my blood sugar would be, because I didn't know how to manage it any other way. Looking back, I am amazed that I was okay. But yeah, I just we didn't know. I took NPH and regular and all we did was check our blood sugar a few times a day, if we if we did. But every time I checked, every time I checked, it was always high, right? Didn't matter it was, it was always high. And so, so, yeah, so I would just start binge eating because I didn't, you know, I already felt bad about myself because I was high. And so I just was like, Well, fine, if I'm going to be high, I'm going to give myself a reason to be high.

Scott Benner 53:21
Did you feel like you had an eating disorder?

'Mia' 53:23
I was definitely down that path, for sure, for sure. I met my husband, and he kind of helped pull me out of that before, I mean, before we were married and stuff, and kind of helped me start to see myself worth besides just a number kind of makes me cry. But, you know, he really helped me was that a lot of faith and prayer as well, that is a big part of who I am as well, and so that helped me kind of get on the right track. Finally, was able to go to a doctor who didn't judge me. You know, there's a lot of judgment. I remember being at this one medical place, and there were a whole bunch of med students there, and they all came in and, like, asked me the same questions, you know, how many times did they see people with type one diabetes, you know, and my ANC was high, and they're, like, asking me my why my a 1c was high? What am I doing? You know, just like, but there was probably like four students that came in, and they all had to do a health intake on me, right? And, you know, it was just so demoralizing and so judgmental, and I just felt like I was the worst person in the world for that, because my my blood sugars were high, and so for the longest time, you know, I was just like, Oh, if my number is high, then that means I'm a bad person, right? My self worth was tied up into it. And then I met my husband, and he really kind of helped me through all of that. And then I finally had an endocrinologist who just talked to me like a person. Yeah, that kind. Of made me like, Okay, I need to take care of myself and really try and get on the right track. And she was like, Are you gonna have children someday? And it's like, well, yeah, I want kids. And she's like, well, then you have to start getting your blood sugars under control. But she talked to me as a person, like as a female, as a mom, you know, I wasn't a mom, but, you know, if you want to have children, what, what do you want for your kids? Do you want for your kids to have one if I was even able to have healthy kids, if my blood sugars were to continue in that path? But how do, how was I going to be, you know, as a, you know, how was, how was I going to expect my health to be okay, to take care of my kids if I didn't really start, you know, making changes or learning how to take care of things,

Scott Benner 55:46
what do you think the process was that got you there? You diagnosed as a teen, okay? And 30 years ago, like, there's the management was, you know, not what it is now, obviously. And so being high was probably, like, you know, law of the land, right? You probably, probably high most of the time, then you get crazy low once in a while. Is that about what it was like? Yeah, yeah, okay. And that was just it, right? There's no measuring tools, really, to speak of. You're not like, meaning like, you're not looking at a CGM. You're not like, not able to really dial in what you're doing. Nobody talks about you weren't covering carbs at one point, I would imagine you were just No, we didn't,

'Mia' 56:23
yeah, we didn't count carbs. It was all fixed doses. We did the exchange list, yep, but it was just like, Okay, this is how many exchanges you eat, but you still take, took the same amount of insulin for all of that, which I guess, in a roundabout way, is carb counting. If you know exactly what you're doing, right, you know? And then I it was, it really wasn't until I I wanted to have children, where I was really like, Okay, I really need to start taking care of this. And we moved to another place, and I met a diabetes educator there, and she was a nurse. I remember her to this day, and she just helped me. She took me in, and she taught me about taking, you know, did she talk teach me about taking different doses? I don't remember exactly, but anyways, she just really loved on me and made me feel like I was not a terrible person if my blood sugars were high, and so I wanted to do well because, you know, I wanted her to be proud of me, yeah, and also because I wanted to start having two kids. And she said, Well, you know, you need your a 1c to be better. And so, so I did. So I started make, you know, really making changes. And I don't, it's probably not so much that I made changes about my food, because I wasn't eating terribly at that point. But it was like making sure I took my insulin right, making sure that I did take the amount that I was supposed to take. And so it was probably more of those things that really kind of helped me, you know, get better.

Scott Benner 57:56
What happens when you go from Exchange diet, or, you know, regular mph, world to fast acting and mealtime, or mealtime and basal insulin, and there's not a lot of like direction there, back in the day, right? What is that like, mid, late 80s? Is that about, right?

'Mia' 58:13
I was diagnosed early 90s. Okay? I started, I think I started on humologue, I want to say right before my pregnancy,

Scott Benner 58:23
okay, but I'm saying, Once you make that shift, there's not, there wasn't a ton of direction back then. No, no, no, no, no. So it was like, now we're just going to use this factorizing insulin, and then it's the end of it. Then you don't, like, even, yeah, know what the hell you're doing. And my point is, that. So you start in a hole that's driven by what's available, right? There's nothing anybody can really do about that. There's some people who've, like, you talk to some of the old heads, sometimes they really figured it out somehow, like they're rolling around with like, a stable five and a half, a 1c on regular and mph, or something like that. And you're like, okay, but most people don't figure it out. So you have a health suffering. Then, then you fall into this situation where insulins change, and the again, the medical profession is not ready to explain it to people, yeah, and so now people are just lost again. And now there's endless years of people misusing insulin, not understanding it correctly, blah, blah. Then all of a sudden, CGMS happen. And I'm telling you right now, that's the core of everyone doing better now, like, it's, it's being able to see your blood sugar in real time, right? So now these CGMS happen, and people understand them. I'm going to tell you, like, for clarity, like before art and CGM the ideas I were having were all like, they were academic. You know what? I mean, I was like, I think this is what's happening. Or I would try to test her a bunch to try to see if I could see a pattern or something like that. But, I mean, I was really just guessing. Still. I was guessing, right? But I was still guessing. It's not until the CGM comes where I was like, Oh, I get this now. Like, now I see what's going on. I can get I can get ahead of these things. I can make my. Their decisions, etc, so on. I think the point is, is that by the time the only thing that really happened to you, right is that you it's this confluence of events. You meet the educator, you meet your husband, you have this idea of like, I can't feel like this anymore. And then on top of that, you have to live with people asking questions doctors and physicians asking questions that they don't mean, like they're not trying to make you feel bad, right, right? But because of the situation you're in, these are horrible things to hear. Is that? Right? Yeah, yeah. Okay, exactly. And then somehow all that stuff, luckily comes together, and you pull it together, yeah?

'Mia' 1:00:40
Once I started to feel better, when my blood sugars got better, you know, it, it definitely started to really click, right? And then when I got on a my very first pump, it was like night and day. I mean, even back then, with the type of pump that we, you know, pumps that we had, it was like night and day. My a 1c, have been less than seven probably, I think there was two times where it may have been 7.1 or 7.2 over the years since then, and now they're, you know, now they're even much better, and time and range is much better. But, but yeah, it was like, Wow, I feel good. You know, I'm starting to feel better. So if I feel better, I can do better.

Scott Benner 1:01:26
Yeah, and so not a thing you realize when you're going through it. You don't

'Mia' 1:01:30
realize it until you start to feel better, and you're like, Oh my gosh. And then I remember when I finally got onto, I wouldn't say the first CGM, but when I got onto CGM, consistently, I could really tell a difference. I realized that it was because my blood sugar was dropping, but since I'd had hypo unawareness by then, I didn't really know that that was what was happening. But I would just get kind of irritable, and then I would eat dinner. And you know, this was usually in the late in the afternoon, early dinner, you know, early evening, we'd eat, and then I would be fine. But it's

Scott Benner 1:02:04
heartbreaking again, yeah, yeah. There's a moment in my day where my kids look at me and think, crazy lady and, and that's because my blood sugar's low, and I don't even know, yeah, exactly, it's up. See, that's my that's my point is that, and I the best way I feel like I've ever found to say it is, is that with stable and in range blood sugars, you have an opportunity to be the person that you were supposed to be prior to your pancreas not working well, and all this coming into your life, like, there is a way you would respond to your children, to the news, a way you would exercise love, laugh all this like, like, fundamentally, who you are gets changed by diabetes when it's not well managed, And no one teaches you how to do that. So, so it's not just my pancreas, you know, shit out on me, and now I gotta take this insulin like that is a very surface way of looking at what diabetes is, because it when your blood sugar is too high or it's too low, you are altered. Your brain works differently than it would if your blood sugar was 85 Yeah, that's it, exactly. And that's not right. Part of my my focus is for my daughter to be able to live her life as herself. And I don't mean like, you know what I mean like? I mean on that level. I mean on a molecular level, and what comes out of her mouth and how she feels and sees things and speaks like that's the to me, that's what we're trying to do, like the health, the health comes with it. That's great, but it's more about getting to be yourself. Yeah, exactly. I

'Mia' 1:03:53
would agree 100% and I think that that's what kind of makes me really feel for people when they don't have that as an option, and that's not given to them as an option, or they're written off as somebody that's non compliant, or that's not capable of making changes, like it's because they've never had the opportunity to feel good, right? Or they've never been given the opportunity to have technology, or they've never been told, Hey, let's try this instead and see if this will work. Yeah, let you see how your food responds. Let you see what this you know happens when you forget to take your insulin, or when you do take your insulin, you know the differences. And when they start to see that, I believe 100% that people will improve.

Scott Benner 1:04:43
Well, they'll at least have the opportunity. That's for sure. Yeah, yeah. So, like, very simply stated, like, if you have a 200 blood sugar for the last 10 years, you're not experiencing the world. And the world is not experiencing you as you would or they would if. Your blood sugar had been 85 most of the time for the last 10 years. That right there is then, now suddenly, like you said, you go into a doctor's office and maybe you're short tempered, or you can't focus, or whatever ends up happening to the point where you don't do what the doctor says, even though we assume most of them might not even be saying anything all that incredibly valuable to begin with. And then they, they they literally take a pen and write non compliant in your chart. I feel like non compliant means I don't have to worry about this one anymore. They don't want to be healthy. So my conscience is clear, right? Yeah, exactly. Not for everybody. But I know it's just a, it's an insurance thing for, you know, just they have to write it down, like, in a lot of places. So I'm not saying everybody feels that way, but the thing that I spoke about earlier, about the well, my job doesn't allow me to do that, so I can write this off, right? Like, that's non compliant. Well, they didn't listen. Oh, well, not my fault. I told them, yeah. Like, Yeah, but you're telling a person who's altered and then you're upset because they didn't accept it. Well anyway, there's a lot more going on than we think, and none of this has to happen. You just get them in the hospital when they're diagnosed, and you explain its timing and its amount. It's this and it's that. Look, I this is going to sound like a commercial. If you just got that bold beginning series I made when you were diagnosed, you have an exponentially better chance of being healthy.

'Mia' 1:06:24
Oh yeah, that's it, yeah. And when I was when I was diagnosed, I didn't even go to the

Scott Benner 1:06:30
hospital. It's fine, but

'Mia' 1:06:33
it was like, so my brother has type one as well, and he was diagnosed two years before me. We were both around the same age, but, you know, just two years apart. And so my mom took me to the doctor, and he's like, okay, take insulin, and just sent me, sent me on my way. I didn't go. I didn't have, like, education right away or anything.

Scott Benner 1:06:56
Guess what, Mia, you're in the family business now, see ya. Yeah, exactly.

'Mia' 1:06:59
Yeah. So it was kind of crazy, but I'm thankful that people that you know that it is taken a lot more seriously, and that they usually are sent to the hospital for a couple of days to learn things and stuff. But yeah, it was just kind of crazy that that didn't happen for me.

Scott Benner 1:07:18
I hope for everybody that they find the information that it lands with them, if it doesn't land with them, that they find a place to go speak in a community setting where somebody might be able to speak their language and get it to them. That really is another great value of the Facebook group, which is, let's say I lead you down a path, but you don't jive with me, but you still go, oh, something's here. I don't understand. I didn't understand I didn't understand how that guy said it, but it does exist. I'll go to the Facebook group and go find somebody who speaks my language, you know what I mean, and then I'll now, I'll go find it over there. I still, first of all, I still see that as me helping. And the other thing is, is like, not everyone's gonna like me or or hear me the way I speak. Like, like, it doesn't mean they don't get to have good blood sugars, you know, right? I'm just doing my best. Like, I'm just, I'm out here doing my best, and hopefully I'm leading people towards a path that will, will, will just, it'll walk a healthier life for them. That's really all I care about. That's the rest of it just works itself out honestly. So is there anything we didn't talk about that we should have?

'Mia' 1:08:25
I don't think so. I kind of went off on, you know, I guess I'm pretty passionate about what I would I want for people to have care, and so if I went on that too much, I apologize. No, no, this

Scott Benner 1:08:40
was lovely. And also, Mia, seriously, like, don't be sorry about going being passionate about it. Like, I'm not a therapist, but a therapist might tell you that you're trying to do for other people what you wish would have happened for you.

Unknown Speaker 1:08:57
Probably don't worry.

Scott Benner 1:08:58
That's exactly what they say. I just save you the 40 bucks. People did their best for you. Their best was not nearly enough. The technology was not nearly where it wanted needed to be. That's nobody's fault, right? We're just we're getting better as a society in that stuff, right? You were born in a time where this was how it was going to be, and then you got to see the new time, and now you can hold those two things up against each other and go, Oh my god, like I lived a lot of my life the way we just described, and I don't want that for other people, yeah, and I, I'm telling you, I started this whole thing because I just thought, like, there's no reason for people to, like, spend two years crying the way I did when my daughter was diagnosed. You know what I mean? Like, like, I all this stuff I figured out, like, why don't we just go tell it to somebody else? They can skip it. Then it makes sense to me. It's really like this podcast is verbally what AI will be one day for information, which is, like, you could spend six years. Is learning how to do this, or we can just go past that, and now here it is. It just it works. Now, do that. Now see what's beyond this. Like, that's progress, by the way. Like, some people will see that as, like, a loss of, like, old school things like, oh, you know when they people say, like, if everybody has a calculator, what do I need to add for like, how do I like, I don't have to learn how to add I have a calculator. Well, there's an argument to be made, but we would like you to learn how to add. I think that'd be important. There's also an argument to be made for like, Yeah, that's probably right. Just use the calculator. And that's how I see kind of the diabetes information. Like, you can struggle for 10 years and hope to figure it out, but you're probably not going to. Why don't we just let somebody who already figured it out just tell you what to do? What to do, and then you can go build your life on the shoulders of that idea, instead of starting in the hole that you got dug into when your pancreas was like, I don't think so. I'm not today anyway, that's how I think about it. Yeah. All right, this was lovely. I appreciate you doing this. I hope you become a very successful PA and find a doctor who cares more about patients than money. And

'Mia' 1:11:05
I know, I know, I know that that's kind of way out there. I think I would be disappointed with myself if I didn't even try. I say, take

Scott Benner 1:11:13
your hippie attitude out in the world and try to make it work. Yeah, yeah, so that maybe you could do it yourself, like one person at a time. There's nothing wrong with that, right? Like, why couldn't you start a business where you help people with diabetes? I've

'Mia' 1:11:26
thought about that. I've thought about doing that too, but I would like, like, not being a PA, but then I would still have to say, you have to follow up with your doctor, and they have to make the changes, unless the doctor gave me the, you know, the permission to make the changes.

Scott Benner 1:11:42
Well, there are, there are companies out there that help people, and they do exactly what you're talking about, and they're not run by doctors. Yeah, yeah. Well, just remember, nothing you hear on the juicebox podcast should be considered advice medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan. Now, have you ever thought of bolusing for the fat in your french fries? I bet you haven't. Let's talk about it. Thank you very much. Hold on one second. Okay,

'Mia' 1:12:07
thanks. Okay.

Scott Benner 1:12:17
Did you know if just one person in your family has type one diabetes, you are up to 15 times more likely to get it too. So screen it like you mean it one blood test can spot type one diabetes early tap now talk to a doctor or visit screened for type one.com for more info, this episode of The juicebox podcast was sponsored by us Med, usmed.com/juicebox or call 888-721-1514, get started today with us. Med links in the show notes, links at juicebox podcast.com, Arden started using a contour meter because of its accuracy, but she continues to use it because it's durable and trustworthy. If you have diabetes, you want the contour next gen blood glucose meter. There's already so many decisions. Let me take this one off your plate. Contour, next.com/juice box. I want to thank you so much for listening and remind you please subscribe and follow to the podcast wherever you're listening right now, if it's YouTube, Apple podcast, Spotify, or any other audio app, go hit follow or subscribe, whichever your app allows for, and set up those downloads so you never miss an episode, especially in Apple podcast, go into your settings and choose download all new episodes the diabetes variables series from the juicebox podcast goes over all the little things that affect your diabetes that you might not think about, travel and exercise to hydration and even trampolines, juicebox podcast.com go up in the menu and click on diabetes variables, the episode you just heard was professionally edited by wrong way recording, wrongwayrecording.com. You.

#1315 IDU: Why Some People Can’t Hear Sarcasm

Arden and Scott try to figure out why some people can't hear sarcasm.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Scott Benner 0:00
OmniPod, Welcome back friends, to another episode of The juicebox podcast.

Arden's back today to talk more about what we don't understand. And today's topic is sarcasm we don't understand why some people can't hear it. Nothing you hear on the juicebox podcast should be considered advice medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan. Guys, the best way to support the podcast, if you're wondering, is to use the sponsors links. They're in the show notes of your podcast player. They're at juicebox podcast.com, and they're repeated throughout the ads. I'm talking about OmniPod, Dexcom, US Med, the contour, next gen, blood glucose meter, GEVO, hypo, pen, cozy Earth, AG, one screened for type one.com. Let's not forget touched by type one, the Eversense CGM, the Medtronic champions. Link and you can go to tndxchange.org/juicebox, and complete that survey. All of these things will support the show, not to mention sharing it with friends and people you meet along the way. And don't forget to join the private Facebook group juicebox podcast. Type one diabetes on Facebook, it currently has almost 54,000 active members, and it's adding about 150 new people every 72 hours. This episode of The juicebox podcast is sponsored by cozy Earth. Use the offer code juicebox at checkout at cozy earth.com and you will save 40% off of your entire order. The episode you're about to listen to was sponsored today by ag one, you can drink ag one, just like I do by going to drink ag one.com/juicebox, check it out. Okay, alright, we're back. We're making another episode of I don't understand. But before we get started and I tell people the topic, tell me what you just said. Oh, my

Arden Benner 2:05
Instagram. Yeah, Instagram spoiled. Um, what do you mean?

Unknown Speaker 2:09
What do you mean? I'm like, let

Arden Benner 2:11
me tell you about this problem on Instagram. No, I don't even want to say it now. It's not that

Scott Benner 2:18
big. Five seconds ago, you were like, there's a travesty of justice. Let me tell you about it.

Unknown Speaker 2:22
Come on. Let's just come on. Now. You

Scott Benner 2:25
don't know, people are gonna wonder what you were talking about. No, just let them wonder. It's good to be curious. Okay. Well, speaking of being curious, we were wondering, and this is one that neither of us understand, I guess, is it neither or neither, neither. I don't think it matters. Either, either, neither, neither. I

Unknown Speaker 2:45
don't think it matters. Let's

Speaker 1 2:46
call the whole thing off. You know, the end of the I wish

Speaker 2 2:49
you did tomato, and you just say, tomato, tomato, tomato, Potato,

Arden Benner 2:55
potato.

Scott Benner 2:56
Let's call the whole thing off. I don't know that was a whole thing is that like a song about people dating and then they don't end up get together because they say tomato differently. That's a dumb reason to break up. Topic garden is doing I'm stretching my leg. No one knows that's happening, if you don't mention it, today's topic is something it's difficult for you, and I to to understand, right? Because I think, I mean, I know, for me, I'm dealing on a professional level when it comes to sarcasm. I really am, and I've

Arden Benner 3:34
created sarcasm. You feel like you, you're the one, the creator of sarcasm. So we have quite a hard time understanding this

Scott Benner 3:41
topic. Yes, our topic is, we don't understand why. Some people can't hear sarcasm. Yeah, because it's so obvious, yeah, to me, to you as well. Yeah, it's just like the Yeah, like, we're it's so bad I can't not use sarcasm. They say sarcasm is a dull man's wit, or something like that. But I think that was something that a person who didn't understand sarcasm said, you have to understand, and probably you do that when I'm making the podcast. You know, normally I'm dialing back myself by about like 80%

Unknown Speaker 4:20
like I can't if I just doing that right now too.

Scott Benner 4:23
Oh, I'm still doing it. Or I would say something, or I would say something horrifying to people, yeah, and

Arden Benner 4:27
this podcast would be over on episode three, because we get, we get canceled, for sure, then, uh, we would have no money. Like, like, when we,

Scott Benner 4:37
like, when we just said, I said, Hey, do you want to do this topic? And I was like, Maybe we should wait longer until people really like us before we bring this up.

Arden Benner 4:44
I think the truth of it is, though most people feel the same way about things, but they just like, don't want to be the first one to

Scott Benner 4:51
say it. That I believe is probably true, but I've also learned that there are times where people just they don't hear it at all. Like, like, anything you. Like this thing that whatever done, like things that I think are just obvious. And then I have these sit down long conversations with people, and I realize they're not even they're not hearing this, experiencing this, understanding what I'm saying. Like,

Arden Benner 5:14
I Well, I think a big part of sarcasm is understanding the personality that you're working with. And if people don't know you, then it's like, they don't know if you're being facetious or not, yeah. So like, you have to understand the personality you're working with. But because it's like, obviously, if I made a joke and it involved, like, murder, you'd be like, Oh, Arden's not gonna murder someone. That's she's kidding,

Scott Benner 5:40
no, but some people are be put off by it. Yeah, exactly, because they're not reading the sarcastic and

Arden Benner 5:45
those are people who can't, like, pick up on person, like they don't understand how personalities or this or that,

Scott Benner 5:50
but I don't, but it's not like there's nothing, not like there's something wrong with them, because those people could easily say, like, why don't you guys not be so sarcastic, and then I won't have to feel my way through what you're talking about, but when you're being sarcastic, do you not mean what you're saying?

Speaker 1 6:05
Not always, no, but sometimes Yeah,

Scott Benner 6:10
because, like, you know, like the saying many truth are told in jest. You know that one, no, I do okay. Meaning that people joke about things that they really mean, and then they're like, Oh, I'm just kidding to, like, lighten the the landing of the what is

Arden Benner 6:25
it? Drunk, drunk something or sober thoughts, drunk words, something like that. I don't know the thing they say, like, when you drink and you say something like a truth elixir, yeah, drinking.

Scott Benner 6:38
So when people are. It's so interesting because now I'm trying not to be sarcastic while I'm thinking about it. But I know, for as an example, I don't believe that mom's mother, on any fundamental level, understands me. Okay. I don't like I think anytime I'm joking, she doesn't know I'm joking. Wait, what? And why are you saying this? Because she's an example of a person who I just don't think gets my sarcasm at all. And I know there are other people like that, because I get emails from people listening to the podcast who are like mad at me for something that they perceive that

Arden Benner 7:20
I think is so interesting.

Scott Benner 7:24
This is from a listener. Thank you for introducing me to cozy Earth. For my birthday, I bought stuff to update my bed sheets, comforter and a blanket. It honestly made our lives better. My husband and I used to have a conversation in quotes every single morning about who pulled the covers so far to their side, or how we were too hot or too cold. That never happens now, both of us sleep better and more comfortably. And don't get me started on the clothes you all should just try one piece. Use the offer code juicebox at checkout@cozyearth.com, and you will, in fact, save 30% off of everything you put in that cart. Cozyarth.com, use the offer code. Juicebox at checkout. I began drinking ag one when I started worrying that I wasn't getting enough vitamins, minerals and gut support. I tried a couple of other products that I did not like the way they tasted, and eventually I found ag one, and I settled on it because it delivers what I need and I like the way it tastes. So ag one contains prebiotics, probiotics and gut supporting ingredients. And since I've been taking I've noticed I have more energy, improved digestion. I've got reduced bloating, like, you know what I mean? Like, you get puffy in the front less than that, and I make the poopy every day, so it helps to keep me regular. What I'm telling you is ag one helps fill my nutrient gaps and supports my gut health. These things are incredibly important. I take them very seriously, and that's why I drink ag one. So start with ag one and notice the difference for yourself. It's a great first step to investing in your health, and that's why they've been a proud partner of mine for so long. Try ag one and get a free bottle of vitamin d3, k2, and five free. Ag one, travel packs with your first purchase at drink. Ag one.com/juice, box. That's a $48 value for free if you go to my link drink. AG, one.com/juice,

Unknown Speaker 9:19
box. Check it out.

Arden Benner 9:21
For some reason, like not being sarcastic is like the default persona. So if you are sarcastic, it's like you're different because you act like this in this scenario, you know what I'm saying. So it's like you like people will say to a sarcastic person, if they don't like sarcasm, they'll be like, I don't like sarcasm, so you have to stop using it. But why is it not like, Oh, I

Unknown Speaker 9:44
like sarcasm. I

Arden Benner 9:45
understand it. You should use it, right? Such a double standard, I

Scott Benner 9:50
have to tell you, this is a very similar thought that I had after I got married, but not about sarcasm. I want to know what it was about. It's about like. Right? In any interpersonal situation, someone tends to take the moral high ground and illuminate you as the problem, yeah. And now, therefore something that's

Arden Benner 10:14
unique or different anyway, is the problem,

Scott Benner 10:17
right? Yeah. And they feel like, well, because, oh, this is a bigger topic, isn't it? This

Arden Benner 10:22
gets into like, like, race and stuff like that, yeah, like, it's, it's minority. Like, being the minority in a certain setting makes you the one who's wrong. So

Scott Benner 10:31
you're saying, if you're a sarcastic person surrounded by people who aren't, yeah, you're my you being the minority in that situation allows the people who aren't sarcastic to paint you as the problem, yeah,

Arden Benner 10:44
because there's more of them than there is you. So they they think that they must be right, because they're like, they're like, the normal version or something, and we're like the off version of them.

Scott Benner 10:54
Do you think that in an alternate situation when there's eight sarcastic people, eight people with, like, the talent for sarcasm, and two people who don't, does it feel mean to the two people who don't have this skill? Is

Arden Benner 11:07
it a skill? It probably is. But like, think about it like affliction. Think it's like you were in like, a room with comedians or something, and they're all making jokes, and you're not like that is you feel out of place then.

Scott Benner 11:19
So when you hear comedians talk to each other like because now every comedian in the world has a podcast so you can hear their

Arden Benner 11:24
every thought like you. Deb, I have a podcast too, but comedian, I'm not a comedian. You're so funny. Do you think I could do I don't think I could, really. I don't think you could do it either.

Scott Benner 11:34
Yeah. I don't think I could. But my point is this is that when when a bunch of comedians get together, they just break each other's balls constantly.

Arden Benner 11:42
Yeah? And I would love that. I'd love to be in that situation. Mom would start crying four seconds into that conversation because she feels like attack, attacked. Yeah, Cole would too, because they don't hear the sarcastic. It's all jokes. You can't take anything to heart, right? But the thing is, a lot of it's true. You have to deal with the fact that it's true.

Scott Benner 12:03
Are you okay, hearing stuff about yourself sarcastically, that's true. Yeah. Are you sure?

Arden Benner 12:08
Yes, when you're not,

Unknown Speaker 12:10
what do you mean?

Arden Benner 12:11
You're not good with that?

Scott Benner 12:12
I think that everybody thinks you dish it. Don't take it. I think everybody thinks that probably to an extent. Yeah. I think everyone thinks everyone else is bad at it, but they're great at it. No,

Arden Benner 12:23
I don't think anyone's bad at it.

Speaker 1 12:25
I think that you think I can't take it. Oh, you

Arden Benner 12:29
cannot take it. I don't agree with that. You get very defensive. You're already defending yourself. I don't feel defensive. Like, if you told me right now that I can't take it, I'd be like, Okay, I don't know why you think that, but like, Okay, if that's what you think so, but you get defensive right away. This is

Scott Benner 12:43
very interesting because, because I don't agree, I don't agree with the use of the word defensive.

Arden Benner 12:52
I hate this. We're not getting into this next topic. What? Because I we've talked about this at home, and I think it's so ridiculous. I

Scott Benner 12:59
just think it's explaining a perspective. This is just literally

Arden Benner 13:02
wrong. This isn't even like an opinion. This is just wrong.

Scott Benner 13:07
So I'm not allowed to have my own opinion, because you've said I'm wrong, but earlier, you said that if people who don't understand sarcasm,

Arden Benner 13:14
but there's some, there's some stuff, that's just fact and that is just wrong, go ahead, tell them how you view

Scott Benner 13:21
if somebody says something about you that you don't agree with, and you explain it, that person goes, You're being defensive. And I'm saying, No, I'm just trying to give you my perspective.

Arden Benner 13:36
Well, that's completely different, but you can still being defensive doesn't mean like you're giving it being defense. You can give perspective without being defensive. You can say, okay, I don't agree with this situation. I don't agree with how you see it. Here's how I see it. But instead, you're just like, No,

Scott Benner 13:52
you're wrong. Have you not considered that it's because of the incredible onslaught of pressure coming from, let me be honest, you and mom trying to tell me I'm being defensive. You are you? You are being defensive. I don't feel like I am, but when I'm being told I am, it makes me upset, not defensive. It makes me feel like you're not listening.

Arden Benner 14:15
You go into a defensive mode when you're upset. That's how you work. I don't like it when people don't listen, yeah. And you get defensive. I feel like that's very man of you the way you're talking. I think

Scott Benner 14:26
that that feels like a bad word to me. Defensive.

Arden Benner 14:29
Yeah, so it makes you more defensive because you don't like the word. You're just proving my point right now, I don't

Scott Benner 14:37
feel like that well, like, if you're backing me,

Arden Benner 14:41
SUBSCRIBE and COMMENT down below. Is he defensive? Yeah, please. Oh, this

Unknown Speaker 14:46
isn't YouTube, is it? Oh, I

Scott Benner 14:47
mean, it'll be on YouTube. Okay. Yeah, you people do that, but, but I don't see it as defensive. I just see it as you're not understanding my position. And I'm trying to articulate how

Arden Benner 14:58
this feels to me, not to bring up new. All again, but it has so much greatness in it. It feels like the episode of new girl when they're trying to get Ruth into, like, the really good school, and they're trying to teach her about colors or something, and I know about numbers, they're trying to teach her the numbers, and they're like, 1234567, and they get to seven, and she's like, green. And Schmidt is like, what did she just say? Seven was green? And Jess is like, seven is whatever she feels it is. That is how you that is how I feel right now, when you talk about being defensive, I feel like exactly

Scott Benner 15:32
you're not. You're willfully not hearing me so that you can eat me on a defensive footing. No, that's not what's going on. How it feels? Well,

Unknown Speaker 15:43
I feel that you're wrong.

Scott Benner 15:44
Okay, look at you reaching all the way into epic in season seven of New Girl, for reference, Ruth. Look at you that they named after Ruth Bader Ginsburg. I remember I was there. I remember during covid, when you said to me, Dad, you got to watch this show. And you tried to say no at first, I didn't like it at first. Yeah, it felt too um, box at kami in the first you

Arden Benner 16:06
remember the first day that we watched it together? Remember why we were watching it? I do. So

Scott Benner 16:11
here's what I remember about the first day we were up earlier than everyone else. Yeah, so I'm gonna guess we went for a blood draw. We did. We

Arden Benner 16:18
went for a blood draw, but that was the day you remember when we when we went to go get my blood drawn, and she took so much blood, she had to go to another another room, like, looked at each other, like, what? And then

Scott Benner 16:33
that was back when we were trying to figure out all the things that were going on with you. And she was like, I don't have enough booze. She loved the game with more too, yeah, like in her shirt, right? Like she was, she

Arden Benner 16:44
was holding them in her shirt. And we were like, What the hell. And then she came back, and I swear to God, it was like, over 30 tubes that she took. I don't know what was even wrong with me. And then we left, and she, I remember her saying something like, did you eat? And I was like, no. She's like, Yeah, you should probably do

Scott Benner 17:01
that. Then we came back here and nobody was awake yet, and it was like a it was a cold or a wet day, or it was cold, right? And then we sat on the sofa, under blankets, we watched New Girl, and because it was covid, Mom and I were letting you redo your room any way you wanted, yeah, and you decide birthday, because I couldn't do anything for my birthday, we couldn't do anything for your birthday, so you repainted your room, put down different flooring in your room as your birthday present. But you also made this grand pronouncement that watching televisions made your eyes hurt and you needed a projector. Yes, that was the same day. Yeah, you're so right, because the projector screen came that day, and then we put it up in my room. Yes, you

Arden Benner 17:42
know what? The first show I put on was no Grey's Anatomy. Oh, no kidding. And we were watching Grey's Anatomy on the wall. And then Cole did his little dilly dally. Didn't he's like, Oh, what's going on in here? And I was like, I got a projector, bitch. Yeah. You

Scott Benner 17:56
also for people who think that that's a crazy thing. You can get a projector for about $300 and the screen was like 100 bucks, and we put it up in her room, and she pulls down a screen in her room and she wants to watch TV and turns on a projector, yeah, but nowadays you would do it more on a laptop, right? Because I'm downstairs

Arden Benner 18:12
doing homework, but I just got to clean up my room so I can do it. It's hard to do because I broke the little thing that all my clothes are standing on. So do

Scott Benner 18:20
we want to tell people that your closet so full that you have a free standing closet in your middle of your room? No, I

Arden Benner 18:27
don't want to talk about it, because I also have clothes in my basket online right now. So

Scott Benner 18:32
okay, Marta needs this podcast to, like, maybe get some advertisers so she can buy clothes with it. No, I need an education. Okay. So, okay, so that was the day, yeah, and that show is incredibly sarcastic, yes, and you and I love it, yeah. Now here's interesting. Mom cannot watch it. She can't even figure the

Arden Benner 18:51
out. She can't get, like, three episodes in, like, it's just like, it's all right. And I'm like, well, because you don't hear anything that's going on right now, like something sarcastic will happen, and I'll turn my head and smile, and she's just, like, sitting there, and I'm, like, daring, she doesn't get it.

Unknown Speaker 19:07
She did not get it. Did not hear it at all. Yeah, and it's not like, she

Arden Benner 19:10
doesn't think it's funny. She literally does not understand what's going on. Yes,

Scott Benner 19:14
yes, it's not. You're You're right. She didn't hear something funny and decide that, to me, is not amusing. Yeah, she can't identify that. It's funny, yeah, because she's not hearing sarcasm, she's hearing the words and their meaning, and that's

Speaker 1 19:29
it. Yeah, she's so literal, okay, Cole, who is also literal,

Arden Benner 19:35
I think that he's worse than mom and like, like, when you're talking to him, he's worse than mom, but

Unknown Speaker 19:40
he loves new girl. Yeah,

Scott Benner 19:43
he loves that show, yeah, but he likes something different about

Arden Benner 19:46
it. Yeah, it's not the sarcasm, it's the the actions, maybe like the like when Nick will moonwalk, or like when Schmidt like acts a certain way. It's not the sarcasm of it. It's not the joke. It's the

Scott Benner 19:59
but this. The actions here this, he hears the sarcasm. I

Arden Benner 20:03
think he hears it. It doesn't affect in the same way, but he likes, like, the things that they do feel

Unknown Speaker 20:09
sarcasm like, Shut up. Do you know what I

Scott Benner 20:12
mean? Like, you can feel it coming when you're watching something you're like, this is, I know this feeling. I was saying to somebody the other day about being sarcastic, that when it's done exactly right, it is indistinguishable from, like, regular speech. It's not there, but people who know it's there, it's like seeing a ghost. Does that make sense? Sometimes

Arden Benner 20:32
I hear sarcasm and what people are saying when they don't mean to be sarcastic. That happens to me too, and like, they don't know that they've done something sarcastic, and I'm just like, oh, like, you don't know why. So, you know,

Scott Benner 20:48
almost like a double entendre way, but not exactly. I say stuff on the podcast that gets I know some people laugh at it for one reason, and other people laugh at it for a different reason, yeah, and they don't hear the two don't hear the joke. Yeah,

Arden Benner 21:04
I can. I will have to learn people like sarcasm from people. It's like when I say something or someone else says something sarcastic. I have to look around a room and see what people's reactions are, because people who hear a joke laugh and people who hear sarcasm nod their head

Scott Benner 21:20
and grin or something, maybe just not along with it. Yeah, yeah. It's true. It's very, very interesting. Do you want to read about why some people can't hear sarcasm? It might surprise you. Okay, cognitive and developmental factors. Individuals with ASD, which is autist autism spectrum disorder often have difficulty interpreting social cues, including tone of voice, facial expressions and context, which are essential for recognizing sarcasm. That's not why somebody wouldn't like

Arden Benner 21:52
I know that's true. I know that people on the spectrum have trouble, but not everybody's on the spectrum Right,

Scott Benner 21:57
right, exactly. So that's that doesn't get our answer. Young children or individuals developmental delays. Okay, that's children

Arden Benner 22:03
can't even walk. What are they gonna get my joke? It's like, Hey buddy, come over. Uh, he can't walk. But let me tell you this funny joke. Is

Scott Benner 22:14
it funny too? As you're talking about sarcasm, if you said to me right now, say something sarcastic, I wouldn't know what to say, right, right?

Arden Benner 22:21
But if we're gonna say, but if you're talking, you can't not say something sarcastic, because that happens to me. I have

Scott Benner 22:27
to stop myself from being sorry. Yeah, when I was first like of dating age, a friend of mine told me at six years old, yes, I had a full beard, and I was dating at six. Now, when I was of dating age. A friend of mine who is older told me, dude, if you ever want to be with a girl, you can't use that much sarcasm. Do you think that's true? No, I

Arden Benner 22:49
don't think that's true at all. Yeah, I would have, I have to date someone who's sarcastic, where I'm just, like, boring,

Scott Benner 22:55
but your boy is very quiet, or is he just quiet around us? He's

Arden Benner 22:58
just, he's very he's just chill, but he's very sarcastic with me, okay, right

Scott Benner 23:03
hemisphere brain damage. Wait what? The right hemisphere of the brain plays a crucial role in understanding non literal language, including sarcasm, social communication disorder. This isn't what I wanted. Hold on. What is sarcasm? So key characteristics of sarcasm are irony, tone and delivery, context, intention and examples, if it's raining heavily and someone says, what a beautiful day, well, that's a that's just lazy sarcasm, but it is an example of sarcasm. Sarcasm can be used to add humor to conversation, often highlighted by absurdity or contradiction. Contradiction is mainly what I think of when I think of sarcasm like the opposite of like you're saying the opposite of the words coming out of your mouth. Yeah, right. It can be a way to criticize or express disapproval without making direct statements. Yeah. I

Arden Benner 23:59
think we do that for sure, 100%

Scott Benner 24:02
among friends, sarcasm can be a form of social bonding, showing familiarity and shared understanding, and people sometimes use sarcasm to deflect criticism. You think you do that.

Arden Benner 24:12
You do that for sure.

Scott Benner 24:13
Oh, so for sure. I do it, but you're not sure if you do it. I

Arden Benner 24:16
don't know. You have to tell me. Here's why. I

Scott Benner 24:18
can't let me just readjust to my seat so I can explain this too. I don't judge you.

Arden Benner 24:23
Oh, no, we're not into this right now. Ah,

Scott Benner 24:27
so I don't have any idea, you

Arden Benner 24:31
know what? If you do that, you know what, you'll have no career once this is over. If you want me to start talking, just so you know, and that, by the way, sir, was not sarcasm, but

Scott Benner 24:40
when I said I don't judge you, I was being sarcastic, and then you got defensive. No, because

Arden Benner 24:45
we've had a real conversation about this, and I think it's craziness. Did

Scott Benner 24:49
you just say no, I was being sarcastic and you got defensive. Was I gaslighting you?

Arden Benner 24:55
I didn't say no, I wasn't being defensive. I am being defensive. I 100% agree. With that statement. But

Scott Benner 25:00
when I'm being defensive, it's a problem. When you're doing it is righteous. No, I

Arden Benner 25:04
just, I'm just saying that you can't admit to being defensive.

Scott Benner 25:07
No, we're back on start. Just now, I was being sarcastic. Yeah, I know you were being you got you attacked me? Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 25:15
yeah. Well, yeah, 100%

Speaker 1 25:18
okay. Ding, ding, ding. Sarcasm

Scott Benner 25:21
is often used to mock, criticize or show contempt. It can be humorous, but can also be hurtful, depending on how it's used and perceived. Oh,

Arden Benner 25:30
I mock

Unknown Speaker 25:32
you're always mocking people. Always mocking people.

Scott Benner 25:35
It's terrible, unrelenting. I love it when you do it and people don't wreck it. What is that? That's a cricket.

Unknown Speaker 25:42
Sorry, you just yell. Stop it. Cricket. Stop it. Cricket, cricket. What's its name?

Scott Benner 25:49
Well, it doesn't have a name because it only lives for a couple hours. But can you maybe tap on that cage once? Oh,

Arden Benner 25:55
that's not gonna happen, just for sure. Well, we can't

Speaker 1 25:57
talk while it's Oh, it's wait. All right, hold on a second. Can

Arden Benner 26:02
it? Can the thing kill it?

Scott Benner 26:03
It's asleep.

Speaker 1 26:06
The chameleons are asleep. They have a very specific bedtime ritual. They know what time it is,

Scott Benner 26:12
which cages. It's the white one if you just tap it, yeah, that's your freak to crack it out long enough do it again. This is the one real drawback of my chameleons being in here, is that sometimes I go to give them a cricket and they don't get it, and then it lives in there for a day or two, and it makes I got it.

Arden Benner 26:29
Oh no, it started again. You

Scott Benner 26:31
imagine if we had to cancel the podcast because of this something just like left your

Arden Benner 26:36
screen. I don't know what it was. It's

Scott Benner 26:37
a screensaver. Oh, it's louder now. It like knows it's coming for you. Get this. Go ahead. Oh, it stopped. It's gonna start again. Probably, when they get to a certain age, they get like paper on their legs, and they I think, Oh, my God. How does a cricket make a noise? What do you mean

Arden Benner 27:00
by that? That that was the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Do not put that on the Notes app.

Scott Benner 27:04
You don't want to know. You don't want to know how a cricket makes that noise. No, all right, that is for your own time. So I think what's interesting is that we have not been very sarcastic while we're talking about sarcasm. No, you're not. And if you asked me to give you an example of sarcasm right now, I wouldn't be able to do something. But I know my sarcasm is, is like top shelf, like yours is too, by the way, very, very impressive sarcasm, yeah, what

Arden Benner 27:30
is the anaphylactic shock? Is that when you have a allergy, yeah? Where

Unknown Speaker 27:35
did that come from?

Scott Benner 27:38
You were just thinking about anaphylactic shock. Yeah, you said it very wrong. But

Arden Benner 27:44
this, it's not stopping. I think it like it just made a colony or something, and they've started.

Scott Benner 27:48
You think there's more than one in there now, so

Arden Benner 27:51
loud it is really, maybe it's hot. It is hot in here, yeah, like the backs of my knees are dripping.

Scott Benner 28:00
Oh, sexy. You're also wearing a sweatshirt. Guys into that.

Unknown Speaker 28:08
How's that sound? Are you?

Scott Benner 28:13
It really won't stop. Hold on a second. We're gonna pause. Okay, we're back. Let's button this up. So I have a couple of thoughts. Wait

Arden Benner 28:20
before we keep going. I just want you all to know that the Ohio butthole tickling Bandit has escaped custody and is being hunted by the police.

Scott Benner 28:30
The Ohio butthole tickling bandit, that's not real. Um, I'm

Unknown Speaker 28:35
looking at it.

Scott Benner 28:36
How do I wait? How do I get to your butthole. If I'm the bandit, also, I'm not the Ohio uncommented

Arden Benner 28:44
he doesn't penetrate. He only tickles. First

Scott Benner 28:48
of all, I'm nowhere near Ohio. I want to say that right now. Let me about the Ohio butthole tickling bandit.

Arden Benner 29:02
Someone said the fucking who?

Scott Benner 29:06
It's an urban legend. It's a satirical news story that gained some attention on the internet, but it is not based in real events. That's

Unknown Speaker 29:13
no fun. Sorry.

Unknown Speaker 29:15
It's satire.

Scott Benner 29:18
Satire is satire written sarcasm? Yeah, it is done. Satire and sarcasm are related but distinct forms of communication. While they often overlap, they are not the same,

Unknown Speaker 29:34
but isn't satire like only

Scott Benner 29:37
satire is a literary and rhetorical device that uses humor, irony, exaggeration or ridicule to criticize and expose the flaws, vices or shortcomings of individuals, institutions, society or politics. Sarcasm is a form of verbal irony where someone says the opposite of what they mean, often with a tone of voice that indicates they are not. Being sincere. It is frequently used to mock or convey contempt. I have to tell you something. My favorite part of sarcasm is when you use it without the tone that says I'm kidding. Like, I think of that as, like, old 1950s sarcasm. You know what I mean? Like, like,

Arden Benner 30:21
if someone has a cigar in their mouth and they're

Scott Benner 30:23
like, whatever that is, yeah, there's that, like, big voice in

Arden Benner 30:28
their hand, and they make a joke, and the laugh track is, like,

Scott Benner 30:32
that's how I think of, like, old sarcasm, yes, stupid, yeah. When I think of sarcasm, I am saying something to you I do not mean, and I am saying it in a tone that would make you think I 1,000,000% mean it. Yeah,

Arden Benner 30:47
that's why I'm saying sarca it's not about understanding sarcasm. It's about understanding the person who is being sarcastic,

Scott Benner 30:53
because no one should ever take me seriously, yeah,

Arden Benner 30:57
but if, if someone just met you, how would they 100% know that they wouldn't like, you know, when we go to a restaurant and you're being sarcastic, sarcastic with a waitress and she's like, ah, but you can tell she's like, What the hell did he just say? Yes, yeah, it's because she thinks you're being sarcastic, but she doesn't actually know your personality or who you are, and so there is no way she can know you're being sarcastic 100% and our time is so limited, there's no and as an as a person, she's probably defending herself in a way too. It's probably like a mechanism. So she's an animal, like we're all animals. She's in defense mode now, because she's, you've said something that's probably she's not taking sarcastic. It's uncomfortable. And then she's like, I have to defend myself. Now I never, I don't need to. I'm

Scott Benner 31:39
never sarcastic and mean I am the people you know, to people you know. Would you be sarcastic and mean to a stranger? No,

Arden Benner 31:50
I don't know. No, you know what I I'm very sarcastic to people I know and to people who listen to me. If I'm talking to someone I don't know. Well, I'm an observer, not a I don't talk. I observe. So I talk more, so in a setting in which people know me, because sarcasm is so big, so I have to use that, and if I can't use that with people, yet, if they're strangers to me, I have to listen to them, observe them, and figure them out first.

Unknown Speaker 32:18
Okay,

Arden Benner 32:21
were you more so would get in a situation and you would automatically start talking to someone,

Scott Benner 32:25
yeah, I'm oblivious to the things that you just talked about. Yeah, I know, yeah, I and it's purposeful. I don't

Speaker 1 32:33
care you should. I should, yeah, because, because it helps you, makes you a smarter person, how much smarter can I get? Oh, you could get much smarter, trust me. That was sarcasm. I know it was okay, and so was mine. Okay. Well, yours was better than mine. Is that what you're

Arden Benner 32:52
saying? Apparently, if you can't catch on, it's like an animal kingdom on the lion here.

Unknown Speaker 33:00
Oh, you've never seen the Lion King. No, I

Arden Benner 33:03
have not. Why won't

Scott Benner 33:04
you just sit down and watch the Lion King? It's upsetting. What

Arden Benner 33:07
does he say when you listen?

Scott Benner 33:08
Ah, whatever that is. Oh, no. Like that, that thing. Yeah, that's probably not totally correct. There's no one in our family that can sing.

Arden Benner 33:21
No, none of us. We can't dance, we can't sing.

Scott Benner 33:26
And for as pleasing as my voice is over this microphone, I cannot sing. People tell me all the time, I have a really good, a great voice for this, but

Arden Benner 33:33
I have the worst voice for a woman. You think so? So it's so deep,

Unknown Speaker 33:38
I don't know, I find it nice. Well,

Unknown Speaker 33:40
I'm your daughter.

Scott Benner 33:41
That's not why you don't feel shrill to me ever.

Speaker 1 33:44
What's that mean? You know when Sanj laughs? Sanj, poor Sanj,

Scott Benner 33:49
you know when she laughs and it makes you like you want to cover your ears, makes you want to murder her, yeah, like that. You're never shrill, and shrill even means a little more like, oh god. Almost like, bitchy, like, or,

Arden Benner 34:03
you know what I really like about myself that I don't do and I will never do, and if I end up doing it one day, I would really like someone to tell me girls who end their sentence with

Unknown Speaker 34:15
like, Oh my god. Do

Scott Benner 34:16
you remember when vocal fry was really big? People go, Oh, my God, like that. Somebody told me online that I have vocal fry. What I don't though, I think they just mean my voice is really deep. So sometimes when I'm speaking, I think I just there's like a rumble in my voice. But vocal fry is specifically at the end of a word, yeah,

Unknown Speaker 34:38
I hate that.

Scott Benner 34:40
They say it's a mechanism of trying to sound smarter, like you're being thoughtful at the end. What makes

Arden Benner 34:46
you sound dumber?

Scott Benner 34:47
Don't the Kardashians do them?

Arden Benner 34:49
I don't know if dumber's a word. More dumb, more dumb? Is it? More dumb? Dumb, afied

Speaker 1 34:53
Dummy, Dippy, stupid doofus.

Scott Benner 34:59
Okay? Idiot, Jesus, very vibe. I

Arden Benner 35:02
thought we were like, getting up to that.

Scott Benner 35:05
You got to it too fast. Wait, so why don't so why don't people understand sarcasm? It gave us like, very like, if you're have, oh, my God, what was that? That's what it sounds like when Cole comes home. Oh, Jesus, yeah. Shakes. I

Arden Benner 35:19
thought we just got I thought we were about to get I thought homelander was here.

Scott Benner 35:23
It woke the cricket back up. Oh, my God, it did. Yeah, upsetting. That's

Arden Benner 35:28
how I feel when Cole enters a room. Honestly, you're upset, yeah, oh,

Scott Benner 35:32
he's home from basketball.

Arden Benner 35:34
I know I saw him leave. Okay, he's probably so hot about he's probably like, so hot outside. He runs.

Scott Benner 35:39
He goes out in like, 90 degree heat, plays basketball outside, then runs for, like, runs for like three hours. He looks exhausted when he comes

Unknown Speaker 35:47
back, but she'll watch love Island.

Scott Benner 35:50
Okay, so he should please stop watching Love Island, by the way. It's upsetting. God,

Arden Benner 35:54
they're so dumb. I love it.

Scott Benner 35:56
But okay, so you're watching that. Why?

Arden Benner 36:00
It's like a zoo. It really is. It's just like watching animals interact with each other, because they're

Scott Benner 36:07
not having real experiences even it's just like it's made up,

Arden Benner 36:10
right? They'll be in there for like, a week, and someone leaves and they start crying, and then I'm like, How is that possible? And then, you know, another guy wants to talk to another girl, and other girls, like, I just feel like you formed a connection, and I'm like, you have been there for seven days, and two of them you didn't know them.

Scott Benner 36:28
Does it almost feel like they're being sarcastic? No, it there's no sarcasm in their voice. They can't they're not capable of sarcasm. Yeah, you think sarcasm is difficult? Like, do you think you have to be able to hold two different thoughts in your head at the same time to be sarcastic? Because you know the truth of how you feel and you know what you're what you're saying sounds like opposite of how you feel. Like is that interest? Is that? I wonder what that is you mean. I don't think we figured out why people can't hear sarcasm. It's just people can hear a cricket, that's for sure. Hold on a second.

Unknown Speaker 37:10
Oh, I did it, okay,

Scott Benner 37:13
but so, so just some people hear sarcasm and some people don't, because I didn't mean they know

Arden Benner 37:20
what's really interesting, I will openly say I feel superior to people who, like, are not sarcastic. Okay, you're comfortable

Unknown Speaker 37:30
saying that. No, I

Arden Benner 37:31
am, and you're not being sarcastic. No, I'm being 100% serious right now. Not like, Oh, I'm a better person than you, but like, I feel like there is a part of my brain that understands something that yours doesn't not that like, Oh, you're dumb, but it's just like, that part of me is you like,

Scott Benner 37:48
you have a skill someone else doesn't have. Okay?

Arden Benner 37:52
But I think it's interesting that it's not like, if you're not cricket, I know it's not like, Oh, you're not sarcastic, so you're stupid. It's just like, Oh, you're not sarcastic. But those people probably think that sarcasm is like a coping mechanism, or like a way we have to handle a situation. They probably think they're more superior for being, like, serious and being able to talk about something

Scott Benner 38:16
like we have to, Oh, yeah. So like, there's a misconception that you're only being sarcastic, because almost like when people say, cursing is for stupid people. I've

Arden Benner 38:24
never heard that before, and I love to curse, yeah, so

Unknown Speaker 38:27
hold on a second. Oh, cursing, so fun.

Scott Benner 38:29
What's the saying about why some people are sarcastic? The saying is, sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, but the highest form of intelligence. So it's easy humor, but I don't understand what that means. Hold on a second. It's gonna explain. Well, you clearly don't have the highest form of intelligence. First of all, go yourself. Bang on that, dad. It's not working. Do it. Tell it to stop.

Speaker 1 38:57
Thank you. We should start an ASMR channel, an ASMR channel,

Arden Benner 39:02
that's all we should just, yeah, and then they like, whisper. They're like, Okay, today we're going to be doing and like, I would like put my fingernails up to the thing. I would just like start collecting them.

Scott Benner 39:14
That's that upsets me when I see people doing that. Well, guess

Arden Benner 39:17
what? A lot of people really enjoy that. So really, okay,

Scott Benner 39:19
so I'll just, lowest form of wit. This part

Arden Benner 39:24
there's something I wish, if there's one thing in my life I regret, it's that I was bringing that conversation that I just spoke at a lower time that needs to stop, right? Okay? Well, under

Scott Benner 39:33
lowest form of weight, it says this part suggests that SARS sarcasm can be seen as a cheaper, easy form of humor. It's often quick biting, and can come across as mean spirited or lazy, because it doesn't always require much thought or creativity be sarcastic. I

Arden Benner 39:49
don't believe the complete opposite of that. I don't believe being quick is really hard to do, really hard. I

Scott Benner 39:55
have what I heard somebody refer to recently. I heard somebody refer to i. Um, this recently is, oh, you have, um, talk show. You're thinking at talk show speed, like, when somebody's on a talk show and it's all very quick and bantery like that, and people can keep up and keep the conversation going, like, I move at that speed.

Unknown Speaker 40:13
You do too.

Scott Benner 40:16
Like you can, you're quick, yeah, yeah. And I see that as, I don't see that as as lazy, uh, highest form of intelligence. This part counters the first by implying that sarcasm actually requires a high level of cognitive interesting

Arden Benner 40:31
is that if people who move quickly and do all this stuff, sarcasm is considered mean, you move quick. I wonder if that's why I've been in the South for so long, that Southern people see northerners as so mean, it's because we're moving so quickly and we're just to the point like we get something done and then we we do the next thing. They do think we're being rude, and they think we're being rude, but we're being efficient. Yeah, move, move, move, go, go, go. And then them, when they take so long and do all this stuff, I'm like OmniPod. And then the way they speak, it sounds condescending to me because of how long they're taking to get their thought out.

Scott Benner 41:07
You think all the gaps and in when they're not talking is like a little you

Arden Benner 41:12
Yeah, a little bit. Because I would totally do that if I was like, you know, almost

Scott Benner 41:16
like they're making you stand there while they're not saying anything.

Arden Benner 41:22
Yeah, it's like, you I feel like you could walk up to a lady in the south and she'd be like, Oh, honey, I love your skirt. But if I said that to someone up here, they'd be like, you

Speaker 1 41:33
asshole, but you think she really loves your skirt. But it's hard to take that way. Yeah, it's really hard to take I

Scott Benner 41:41
understand says, Why are some people sarcastic? People who are sarcastic often have a good grasp of irony, and they are quick thinkers. They can see the incongruity between what is said and what is meant, and they use that to their advantage in communications. Sarcasm can serve as a social tool, allowing people to convey criticism, humor or disdain in a more veiled or socially acceptable way than outright confrontation. Some people use sarcasm as a defense mechanism. I don't I don't like it there as much. There. It feels dirtier

Speaker 1 42:12
to me. It's cheaper, but it's true.

Scott Benner 42:15
And then among friends or within certain social circles, sarcasm can be a way of bonding and showing affection. We heard that earlier, sarcasm can be a part of someone's natural communication style. It might be how they were raised, or the dominant form of humor in their social environment. I definitely grew up around a lot of sarcastic people, and when I don't, there are times when I'm being sarcastic in my personal life, and I stopped myself, and I think I shouldn't be talking like this, um, because I'm not trying to tax people around me and make my

Arden Benner 42:46
whole personality with certain people, especially like parents. I cannot be sarcastic around a lot of people's parents, they do not understand what I'm saying at all. Yeah. And then I'm like, Oh, you're gonna take your children away from me as

Scott Benner 43:00
their friends. Yeah. But the positives are that it can be witty and entertaining, provide a way to interject, indirectly address issues, fosters a sense of camaraderie. The negatives, it can be hurtful or misunderstood, especially if the recipient does not recognize the sarcasm. It may be seen as insincere or passive aggressive, and can erode trust and respect if overused or used inappropriately, I can see where people could find it to be passive aggressive if they didn't understand your intention. Interesting. So it says, In summary, sarcasm could be seen as low effort form of humor, but it's actually requires intelligence and social awareness. I agree I'm intelligent and socially aware. I think that I've had conversations that I mean one way that are taken completely differently by people. I think there are people in the world who have a vision of who I am that is completely incongruous with who I actually am because they don't hear the sarcasm. Do you think there are people walking around who don't really know you? I

Arden Benner 44:03
think most people don't know me. I think that even people who hear this podcast won't follow it, dude. No, that's not I was gonna say, Wow, he thinks poorly of you guys.

Unknown Speaker 44:15
That's not what I meant. Like, still

Arden Benner 44:16
don't understand me. Because, first off, this is, like, basically 35% of who I am is what I'm giving off right now, because you have to hide some of yourself. Okay, it's like, completely true, not because you're an ax murderer or something, no, just because people will interpret something wrong or right. You know, like part of entertainment is like getting people on your side a little bit, and you're trying to make them relate to you in a way. And people aren't always going to relate to like, right? They want to. They want to feel like you like. They want to be like, oh, like, we're similar. Okay, so

Speaker 1 44:51
you have to kind of like vibe with them, but that that's unrelated, so you

Scott Benner 44:57
try to match other people's energy, yeah. No, you try to give them the part of you they think that you think they can handle.

Arden Benner 45:04
Yes, because I've seen like, I've obviously been on the podcast before, and I'll see like, comments people make about an episode or whatever, and they're like, talking about me, and I'm like, wow, you have me really, completely wrong. And they're not saying anything bad, but it's just like, they're not right. Yeah, the way that they perceive me is so off. It's incredible. I recorded

Scott Benner 45:25
an episode today with a woman who's the way she thinks or almost doesn't think about me at all, even though she listens to the podcast. Was so freeing to me. I She said what she said, and I thought, This is great. I will never again. Wonder how people

Arden Benner 45:43
perceive me. I wonder how people perceive me.

Scott Benner 45:45
I realize that it doesn't matter, because so many different people are going to perceive me in so many different ways. Don't

Arden Benner 45:51
you want to know like, what it is like, how they see you? No, because

Scott Benner 45:53
different what I'm telling you is that different people see you different ways. So you're No, I know when people there are people listening, there are enough people listening to you right now while you're speaking, yeah, that you are being perceived in a multitude of ways, yeah, and in some ways that you can't even fathom. And so my point is, is that it's not worth wondering about.

Arden Benner 46:12
I know that's why. Like, sometimes I'll see like people and I don't completely agree with them, or honestly, like, I think less of them, because I'm like, wow, like, I don't agree with what you're saying or this or that, but I'm just like, I don't actually know what I'm like, you have to give them a chance, because you don't actually know, right? You don't know shit about anyone, right?

Scott Benner 46:33
Exactly. Yeah, you're probably wrong about most of the things you think about other people's intentions and their thoughts. Yeah, that's my expectation. Because if I'm holding something back, so is everybody else right? Yeah,

Arden Benner 46:47
I think the only people I'm not that way with is like, like, our family, like, I feel like I understand what our what everyone would

Scott Benner 46:54
say. I don't think that I change very drastically, depending on my surroundings. And, like you said earlier, maybe that's a problem in some places, but in one place where it helps is like, with you, or your friends come over, or Cole's friends come over, like, I think your friends find this house comfortable, yeah, because there's no pretense between us and them. Yeah, I'm not pretending to be like an adult or smarter than that. I

Arden Benner 47:20
don't change who I am. I conceal who I am.

Unknown Speaker 47:25
I don't bother doing that. So like,

Arden Benner 47:28
I'll be, I actually don't think that I've ever been 100% of who I am with anyone. I think only myself. And then I'll give like 95% of myself to people. And then I'll give like 90% of myself, or whatever, like I would say, like our family as a whole probably knows 90% of me. So

Scott Benner 47:45
this is very interesting, because I always think I've made so many episodes of the podcast, and I am genuinely talking while I'm on the podcast, like the things that I say about how I feel about people, or how I feel about helping people, that stuff's all very genuine. Yeah. And I always think I wonder if my family listened to this, if they believe this is me or not. No,

Unknown Speaker 48:07
I believe that. Yeah, it's interesting.

Scott Benner 48:09
I know. I'm never sure exactly. Wait, can

Speaker 1 48:11
I pause this to crack my neck? Why don't you just crack your neck on the microphone and then we'll stop. Go ahead. Wait. Why stop? Oh, okay, then just crack your neck. Okay. Your neck was disturbing. When we're done recording, let's

Scott Benner 48:23
go back to two minutes and and

Speaker 1 48:26
two hours, two minutes and see if we can hear it.

Scott Benner 48:31
I have to admit that on the GLP meds, I was hoping your cracking would get better, because it's, it's um, we'll

Unknown Speaker 48:37
talk about something wrong.

Scott Benner 48:39
We'll talk about on another show, but I'm seeing I'm having all these people on the podcast that are having all these different like, Revelations with their health, or on glps. It's really interesting. Can

Arden Benner 48:49
I tell you an episode I want to do? Yeah, that I just thought about like I was thinking about it like I would say 15 minutes ago. You're gonna be so confused why it just came up. Go ahead. Do you know who Bridget Mendler is?

Scott Benner 49:03
She sings a song that was popular one summer hurricane,

Arden Benner 49:06
hurricane, and she was on Disney Channel and all that. Okay, we need to just talk about Bridget Mendler lore. Is

Scott Benner 49:15
it because you don't understand it? No,

Arden Benner 49:17
it's because it's so fascinating. Okay, she is so fascinating, and it like she was on Disney Channel, but adults who are listening will really enjoy this. She's a she's a full grown adult now. She has a family, she's married, but this girl went from being like a Disney Channel sensation to going to Harvard and MIT. She has like, multiple doctorates. I think people want her to, like, run for president. It's like this whole thing that's interesting, and we need to look into her. All right, we'll do that. She wrote hit song hurricanes.

Unknown Speaker 49:58
Ready on here. Huh, really.

Scott Benner 50:03
Also at some point we're going to do, what happens when you lose weight? Where does it go?

Unknown Speaker 50:08
Okay, all right,

Scott Benner 50:10
does that sarcasm you're okay? Or were you really disappointed on me for changing the subject that harshly? No, neither of those are true. What did the okay mean? I

Arden Benner 50:21
was, I was just gonna say something else, and I didn't say so

Scott Benner 50:24
most people, when they tell me, I love when Arden's on the podcast, because I feel like I can hear her eyes roll back.

Speaker 1 50:33
When you're like, uh, that I'm not an I'm not an iron but you're not an eye roller. I know,

Arden Benner 50:39
but a lot of I'll just look at you and say, okay, but

Scott Benner 50:41
a lot of people say that to me. I can, I can feel Arden's eyes roll back in her head when you're talking wrong. This is

Arden Benner 50:49
what I'm saying. People do not understand me at all.

Scott Benner 50:51
But do we understand anybody? And does anybody understand I will see people

Arden Benner 50:56
comment things like, Oh, my kids do this to me too. I have a 14 year old who says the same thing to me, and I'm like, Oh, you don't understand. I'm kidding.

Scott Benner 51:06
What if their kids kidding? And they don't understand that. Now, if they're kid's serious, you're joking, yeah, I'm

Arden Benner 51:10
kidding. We like, I don't think people understand how similar we are. So there are things that I'm saying, and I mean it on a completely different level than what's coming out of my mouth. But they're thinking, like, oh my kid says that, but I'm like, Oh no, your kid doesn't say this, because what's coming out of my mouth is not what I'm saying right. Now,

Scott Benner 51:27
you and I are incredibly similar, yeah, the way we think, yeah, yeah, okay. All right, well, let's go kill that cricket. All right, okay, all right, we'll find it together. Thank you for doing this with me, helping bye.

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