#906 Postpartum Depression

May 8, 2023Scott Benner

Katies has type 1 diabetes and is here to share her postpartum depression story.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 906 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Today's show is with a type one named Katie. And she's here today to discuss the postpartum depression that she experienced after the birth of her child. There are some sensitive issues in this episode, please be aware of that. Also, remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan are becoming bold with insulin. Now if you have type one diabetes, or are the caregiver of someone with type one diabetes and a US resident, completing the survey AT T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox will help other people living with type one may actually help you to it's definitely going to help the podcast T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox you from your home in about 10 minutes can help move type one diabetes research forward at T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox. All you have to do is complete the survey. It is completely HIPAA compliant and absolutely anonymous.

This show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries. G voc hypo Penn Find out more at G voc glucagon.com. Forward slash juicebox.

Katie 1:46
early for me to say,

Scott Benner 1:48
oh don't worry. This is the earliest I've been up in a while to do the podcast was about a half an hour ago I was I was looking at the shower and I'm like, I'm like Get in. Get in the shower. Get in. So anyway, alright, you go ahead and introduce yourself.

Katie 2:04
Okay, my name is Katie. I am a type one diabetic and have been for about five years almost now. And I have a little girl who is two.

Scott Benner 2:16
How old are you? Katie?

Katie 2:18
I am 26 I'll be 27 in July.

Scott Benner 2:21
Oh, wow. You got to get diabetes when you were 21.

Katie 2:26
Yeah. 20. I was 20. I think I just a couple months after I turned 22 It was definitely leader. Yeah,

Scott Benner 2:35
how old your baby

Katie 2:37
is gonna turn to tomorrow.

Scott Benner 2:39
Oh, happy birthday. That's wonderful. Married? Yes, married.

Katie 2:45
And then we actually are do with our second little girl in June 1, we could you

Scott Benner 2:51
are you how far along? Are you right now?

Katie 2:54
30 weeks. So our duty is six, six. But they said probably a week to two weeks really though? Depending on how things go.

Scott Benner 3:03
Oh, well, congratulations. So now I'm sure when when we were supposed to record this originally you weren't pregnant?

Katie 3:11
Nope. I was not I had? Well, so when we set it up. I had had my daughter like six months before. But then I mean, we were scheduled like, six months later. And then about a year since we rescheduled?

Scott Benner 3:25
Yeah, it did the disappointment of not being able to be on the podcast, make you like just decide like, wow, I've got to make some big life changes. I'm gonna have another baby, or did I not have anything to do with it at all?

Katie 3:36
No, it was more of just like, so my husband comes from a big family. So he definitely wanted to have more kids. And me and my brother were more like three and a half years. And it just seemed like a big gap when we were never in the same schools or anything. So we wanted to try to have them a little bit closer. So

Scott Benner 3:55
it's so interesting, where people's ideas come from, like you had an experience where you were farther apart it made you think, Oh, I wish the kids were closer in age. And I had an experience where there wasn't enough time for everybody. So I thought well, let me spread my kids out so that I can focus on them more clearly. It's there's no right answer. It's just the thing that that occurs to you based on the thing that happened to you.

Katie 4:23
It's really Yeah, and my husband's kind of the same way his little his like, brother that's like next. So he's the oldest and then his brother is the next oldest there. They were 18 months apart. And he's like we loved it. We were always in the same schools and doing stuff together. And so we just kind of went that route but I was really two years apart. I was like, I don't think we're going to try it for the 18 months or anything crazy like that.

Scott Benner 4:49
It's pretty it sounds pretty close to me. Do you know what you're having you have a boy now Do you know what this one is? We have a girl now. We have another girl. I'm sorry I missed her did that 202 Little girls, that's beautiful. Okay, so why were you coming on last time?

Katie 5:07
So last time, I had messaged you, because I was pregnant with my first daughter, along with the pregnancy series, kind of it was like a little bit of head when of when I got pregnant. I can't remember her name, but they were so helpful. And it was so nice to like, go into pregnancy, understanding, like, what to expect and have some sort of like, I had no idea what I was getting myself into with diabetes, because I was obviously diagnosed, and up later, so I hadn't been doing this my whole life, right. And then everything was great. I had worked with Jenny even and then left the hospital had my little girl, she was super healthy, everything was great. And then it was like, three months later, maybe three or four months later, like we were just going on about life and everything. And I ended up having postpartum depression really bad. And it just kind of like, blindsided me to the point where like, no one mentioned, like, you know, after leaving the hospital, like they all talk about the baby lose and everything. No one really ever said to me that like, oh, no, you know, in a couple months, like this could happen, or no follow ups. No doctors ever mentioned it or anything. And so I just felt like it could be a good, yeah, to add to the like, pregnancy series, because like, everything else, I was like, you know, kind of expecting ready to manage. But that one totally what blindsided me in general just to have it and to deal with it. But then, like the diabetes, which is like out the window? Yeah. I mean, I had

Scott Benner 6:34
a three month old at the time. Right? And you hadn't had type one that long, either. So is it a case where, like, the second day after the baby arrived, you're like, I don't feel blue at all? I did it. I'm not gonna have like, you just feel like okay, well, that's not gonna happen. And is that is that it? Did you expect that if you were going to have postpartum that it would just hit you immediately.

Katie 6:56
I guess. So. I mean, I didn't really expect, I didn't really have too many expectations around it. But like, I had her and then like, we left like the two days later, and they sent you home with a worksheet and you're like, fill it out in a week. And it's like, you know, checking how you're feeling or whatever. And then you go to your six week appointment. They didn't even mention it or ask anything and my OB appointment around it. And so like, everything had been good. So like, we just were like, she was healthy. And we were kind of settling in and then it just kind of crept out of nowhere like it. I just didn't know that it could like hit you so many months later, because I had heard about the baby blues and kind of, you know, they sent me home. You fill this out in four or five days. So

Scott Benner 7:38
yeah. Okay, so two things, and I hate to do this. Can we try this without your headphones real quick? Yeah, no problem. Thanks. And then I'm gonna ask my question.

Katie 8:01
Alright, can you hear me?

Scott Benner 8:02
Yeah, actually, you're louder. I think we're gonna go with this. Okay. All right. I think we'll see for a second let me ask my question. I'll let you answer it, then I'll decide. Did you see it coming? Or did it creep up very slowly? Or was it just one day you were like, oh, hell, I feel like depressed.

Katie 8:22
Um, it came on slowly. I think. I it started with me, like becoming a little bit more anxious, like, especially around my daughter and my husband. And then it kind of led to more like noticeable stuff. And then it was kind of finally like, I hadn't like in my husband had noticed that like, things were off. But we were still adjusting to life with new baby. And I had been home by myself with her on my maternity leave and everything. And then it finally just kind of got to a point where I was like, Okay, I'm in way over my head. And I don't know what's happening. And I don't know what to do.

Scott Benner 9:00
Tell me, tell me about anxious around my husband and my daughter. What did what did that feel like? How did it manifest?

Katie 9:06
It started pretty small, like things with my daughter, like, I just would feel like, you know, we're not playing with her in the right way or playing with her enough. Or, I remember very clearly it was like, a little bit later on, but it was like we were sitting there. I mean, she's like, tiny. So I just had her on a blanket and we were just hanging out. And I got up to do something like, grab the phone or whatever. And I came back and like a notice the little red mark on her arm and I was like, did a bug bite her and I'm like, looking all over and I'm like, There's no bugs like in the house that I can think of like you don't I mean, it's not like we've had a bug problem. Like I started just kind of spiraling off of that, like if I hadn't have left her alone for that 30 seconds or whatever it was. And like okay, well what happens now? Like is she gonna get super sick? Is it like, what bitter was it a spider and you know what I mean? Like that kind of just like spiral I couldn't get out of here and it was with everything.

Scott Benner 10:00
And once it was there, it it touched everything. Well, yeah,

Katie 10:05
cuz like, and my husband is a police officer so that I mean is already kind of like, you know a scary thing, especially in the time that everything was going on with COVID and all the different protests and different stuff going on but and so it was like outside of like just normal worry for him it was like, I mean, we lived in a city too. So like you hear sirens and ambulances all the time. And literally every time I heard one, I would just be waiting for somebody to come knock at my door to tell me that he wasn't coming home, like, just spiraling to worst case scenario. And I could not stop myself and like reason with it at all.

Scott Benner 10:41
prior to giving birth, had you ever felt like that before?

Katie 10:46
I had felt like it a few times. He when He started the department as like a brand new cop within want to say probably like, the first I know it was within the first year, they actually lost somebody, an officer on duty that was on his squad. So it kind of hit really close to home really soon. And so like the thought had crossed my mind, but it wasn't like, every time I heard a siren or every time I heard anything that like that's where I would go until the kind of the postpartum depression started sinking in. And like it was just like, it was almost like it couldn't function without like, being worried about somebody or something happening.

Scott Benner 11:27
Oh, that's interesting. So little bite on your on your daughter turns into I only walked away for a second. Now I can't walk away anymore. What about this over here? This might hurt her? Or are we did it go into everything real? Like, you know, we have to start a I don't know, we have to start a college fund right now. And I can't afford it. We're buying the wrong foods. We don't live in the right place. Did it just overwhelmed me like that?

Katie 11:55
Yeah, it did it. And it was things that like, it was more of like I didn't even notice like until I started like getting help and trying to figure it out. But like, you know, you see, especially now there's so many like parenting things online. And every time I saw something new, or, you know, this is the best way to feed your kids, or this is the schedule you should be on. Like, it just made me feel like, oh my gosh, we are doing something so wrong. Like we need to figure out how to do this. And what is gonna happen if we don't figure this out? What kind of thing? Would it?

Scott Benner 12:27
This is a question. I don't know if you'll have the answer to or not. But I was just talking to someone yesterday, a younger person, their thing has nothing to do with your thing. But I found myself asking them Are you being impacted by social media too much by the by our ability to take in so much information from so many different perspectives like, like, if you were just at home, and your husband was at work? And I don't know, you maybe had a job or you were staying home with the baby or your circle was smaller like that? Do you think you would have known about all the things that you should be upset about, like, quote unquote upset about? Or was it outside influences that were showing you? This is the right way to do this, and this is the right way to do that. And then that becomes overwhelming to

Katie 13:17
I think it played a part in it. But like, I mean, like the bug bite like that, you know, everybody gets bug bites, but then you're like looking at this little tiny baby and it just felt consuming. But then when I would be on social media, it just kind of like added to that. And kind of made it even more difficult. But I don't think like if I had never been on social media, like it wouldn't have happened.

Scott Benner 13:39
Do you have a bunch of, of things now, like stuff you bought? Because you thought you needed it?

Katie 13:46
No. And it wasn't, I wasn't even as much of like, buying things as much as like, feeling like I was going to do something wrong, or I didn't do it the right way or good enough. And it was going to impact her.

Scott Benner 14:02
And then where does that because there's nothing intrinsically wrong with the idea that I want to do the right thing. Right. So that's not the problem. The problem is what that It's intrusive, that it doesn't go away that it spreads to everything like where does it actually become troublesome?

Katie 14:19
It became troublesome when like it would send me like spiraling to the point where like, like back to the bug bite just because like that one I was so distinctly remember was like I was like literally on the floor crying because I felt like such an awful mom because I had left her for that 30 seconds for that to happen. To the point where like, it was just like everything became that big of a deal in like to me that it was hard to

Scott Benner 14:48
function. And you couldn't put it down after

Katie 14:52
no I couldn't well and it was like you know even if like my husband was like she is totally fine like it's not even read anymore and like we move on like Two days later, I would still like be carrying it with me, even if like we moved on with like, the next thing that day or whatever.

Scott Benner 15:08
Did the things or the when those things happen big or small? Did they pile up? Or do they feel like separate incidences? Like, like, did you when you thought about them? Were you like, oh, there was the bug bite thing? And there was this thing and that thing? And they seem separate? Or was it just the feeling of like, see, I'm screwing everything up, like, like a more combined feeling.

Katie 15:32
It was more of like a combined feeling. And like, I mean, we're about to go into it again, but left for the newborn is your schedules aren't what they should be. And they're not sleeping through the night or napping as long as they you want them to or you know, like, so all of that felt like it was my fault. And I wasn't doing it correctly. And that's why it was all happening.

Scott Benner 15:58
Can I ask you? What kind of mom you have? Like, did you have one of those moms where you're like, my mom did everything right? And everything looked great? Or was she like a hot mess or somewhere in between?

Katie 16:10
Somewhere in between? I wouldn't say like, she did everything right all the time. But like, she was the like, she was the mom that was taking us to like soccer practice, then like our house was the house to hang out at and so like she, but she wasn't perfect either. And didn't like feel like she was trying to be either. So like, we were kind of somewhere in between. But it did feel like, you know,

Scott Benner 16:35
I was right. I was wondering if you had some like shining beacon of an example. And you were trying to do that, too. Did you ask for help. During this

Katie 16:48
kind of I it was hard to ask for help. Because at the same time, like, I didn't know what was wrong. And I didn't know what I needed, I guess because like it started with just like these like feelings of you know, anxiety and like worry and stress. And I was obviously already tired. And just like feeling not good enough. But then it really I really started to spiral to the point where I was just like, you know, maybe they'd be better off without me. Like, I could just walk out the front door and never come back type thing. And then and just kind of got worse from there. And so my husband kept asking me like, well, you know, what's going on, like, just a long day, and when he got home from work, and he just couldn't really put it into words at the time, or know what to ask for what I needed. And then it got to the point where that's even hard to save. But my husband had taken my daughter somewhere just like to give me a break. And obviously he's a police officer and I had had the thought before I'm like, you know, there's weapons in the house. And then like, I tried to just like brush them off or whatever, but I was literally standing like, at his stand like that we keep like in a separate room of like all of his gear. And just looking at him like, you know, I could take his gun out right now and this could just all be over and I could just, she'd be with her dad and everything would be good. And I could just like be done. And like that was a super scary moment for me. And so after that that's kind of where I was just like I kind of like it hit me that like something really big and outside of like normal is going on. Yeah, and I needed help

Scott Benner 18:34
had you had a plan to kill yourself ever in your life

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Katie 19:25
No I had not it wasn't even like a plan I just I don't even really like remember like deciding to go do it like to go in there or anything and I just kind of ended up in there and it was just like there I was kind of it was weird.

Scott Benner 19:41
Yeah. When it when that happened. It's very, very kind of you to share that with everybody by the way. And I didn't expect to have this many emotions. I haven't been awake for an hour yet today just like flooded me my skin got hot while you were talking. You kind of like curled up for a second like you were going to spring forward and I was like what is she going to say? A and that was really very honest. So thank you. You. Okay, so you have that thought. And it's like, in hindsight, it's a thought of escape, right? It's, I'm trapped in a corner, I can't find my way out. There's I just can't. And you start seeing yourself as another thing that might be hurting the structure of your family or your baby.

Katie 20:25
Yeah. And it just felt like, yeah, it just needed a way out, I guess. Yeah. Because like, I had had, like, the previous thoughts of like, you know, I could just, like, walk out the front door, like, and, you know, 20 minutes before my husband always gets home at this time, you know, I'll just leave her in her crib. She'd be safe, and I could just walk away and be done. And so i Namie obviously, that escalated. But yeah, it was just kind of that feeling of like, I'm not helping, and like, I'm creating problems.

Scott Benner 20:57
Right. And, wow, that's really that's really something and you're, you're still young still to like, it's just, it's a lot. You know, I wanted to ask after, after your daughter was born, how were your blood sugar's

Katie 21:14
right after delivery. I obviously cut back on my insulin like a ton. And for the most part was doing well. I mean, I had some lows. I was breastfeeding, which kind of threw another like variable into it, but they were kind of going back to normal. I mean, we were a couple months in at that point. So life had kind of like studied out and we were getting into a routine. So nothing like

Scott Benner 21:41
you weren't liking or dropping real drastically, or always high or always low or anything like that.

Katie 21:48
No, I was still adjusting to like the demands of a newborn and life around her. And so sometimes I would like Bolus me planning to eat and then she'd wake up. So I'd rush to her and be like, oh, shoot, I didn't eat and now I'm low kind of things. But it wasn't like a constant thing. Before and then. And even during, like I was still managing, to an extent, but like I was, I had just put me like, so far back on the list of things that like, I cared about, or like, prioritize that, like, it just kind of fell away that I did the bare minimum to not be like, super high all the time. But I wasn't Pre-Bolus seeing or counting carbs. I was just like, yeah, that looks like it's maybe 50 carbs, who knows? We're sitting down to eat, and I'll just eat it.

Scott Benner 22:36
I just wanted to make sure you weren't bouncing all over the place at this. And I just was checking. I asked you earlier, did you ask for help? And what I should have also asked, Did you know you needed help? In the beginning when it started? Like, were you even aware there was an issue? Or is it a thing that's happening? And I don't know what to say like almost like, you know, when you're getting sick, and like the first day, you can look back and say, Oh, I was getting sick on Monday. I didn't feel well on Tuesday. It wasn't a Wednesday I realized I was sick, like, was it happening? And you weren't aware of it? Or was it happening? You're like, oh, this is wrong. I need this to stop. But not enough to know I should go to another person like and your husband I imagined is doing. Like he's doing the thing I would have done I would have been like, yeah, all right. Yeah. So

Katie 23:29
back, I could see like that it started probably like when she was like three or four months. And then I want to say it was probably around six months, maybe one like, I got to the point where I was as bad as I was. And I was like, Okay, now or like, I need help. But in the meantime, like, I was a new mom, like I was just thinking that I was just not able to, like, meet the new, like needs of a newborn. Like maybe I just wasn't cut out for this. Never in my head was like thinking like, oh, this could be like postpartum depression coming on or anything like that.

Scott Benner 24:04
Right? Ya know, where there wasn't a world where you would have called your mother and said, Hey, I don't feel like I'm doing a good job here. Or no.

Katie 24:13
There wasn't ever like, I mean, like a few things that happened. Like, you know, just adjusting to like, newborn stuff where I was like, I called my mom and I was like, Hey, she seems like she's sleeping like a ton today. Like, is this normal? Should I be worried about it kind of thing? And she would be like, you know, no, we're trying to hit certain, you know, just don't make her feel comfortable or whatever. Just like adjusting to life with a newborn kind of things but never like falling to be like, I think something might be wrong with me or I'm not doing this right or something else is going on. Like it never. Like I said until like I was in that moment. Like it never even really occurred to me that like something else was

Scott Benner 24:51
happening. Yeah, no, I think I understand. But is there in hindsight, can you look back and tell me what would have helped you in that moment? uh

Katie 25:03
honestly, I mean, I ended up well, so when we first when I first started, like, went to my husband and I was like, Look, I need help. I was like, I didn't know what I needed. And he's like, of course, he's a cop, which he's like, so good hearted, but he's like, you know, I can take you to the hospital right now. And I'm like, You're gonna who lock me up and make me a crazy person? Like, no, you know what I mean? Like, that was like, the feeling that I got. So I was like, you know, no, I'm fine. And so it took us like a week or two to kind of like, figure things out. And through his department, they do, they have like a family therapist and different things. And so I ended up going there, and then they're like, you know, we'll just kind of try to work through it and see, and then, you know, I don't know if you're going to need to be on medication or not, because that was something I didn't necessarily want to do. I have my pilot's license, just like to fly for myself, not like for an airline or anything, but they're very strict on like medications and different things. So I was very wary of doing that. And putting, even like, more possible issues in the way of getting my medical, on top of the type one diabetes and things. But even after trying to, or go into therapy for a while, and stuff, like it just got to a point where even my therapist was like, you just need to go get on some medication with your doctor to like, really start helping get through this. Yeah. So I don't think there was anything like, my husband could have done differently where I could have like, change, like, I just needed to get on the medication and get some help and kind of work through it.

Scott Benner 26:39
You did that?

Katie 26:41
Yeah, it was not an easy. Like I said, I really didn't want to do it. And then I even like said, Okay, I'll go see, like the therapist or whatever. And talk to him. And then, like, we made the appointment. And then the morning of I was like, I didn't want to go I just felt like that made me. I don't know. It made it like official that something was wrong with me. And I was doing something wrong, rather than just like it was in my head.

Scott Benner 27:08
So even though even though you weren't doing physically doing something wrong, like it wasn't like, it wasn't like I held up two cards in front of me. One was red, and one was green. And I said which one's red? You pointed to the green one, right? Like it. But it felt like you were doing something wrong.

Katie 27:25
Yeah. And it just felt like I wasn't. I wasn't doing things correctly. Like, I wasn't like living up to be a good mom. Like I wasn't meeting, I guess what, like, I thought in my head, a good mom was or a good way for like, does that make sense? Like it was just like, and then actually going was like admitting it? Like, I'm not good enough. And all of that kind of feelings.

Scott Benner 27:52
Yeah. I mean, from me, obviously, I don't, I can't know your situation. But for me, it was, I'm going to let everybody down. I'm not going to stand up to my responsibilities, everybody's going to be hurt, when I don't do the thing I'm supposed to do. And I don't know what the thing is I'm supposed to do. It isn't until you're, if you're lucky until you're older and you have more experiences that you can realize that there's no right thing to do. You know, it's you're just sort of life is like you're just like paddling down a stream, right. And you can't plot it out before you get in the boat. because there'll be rocks where you don't expect in the stream will split in different places. And so you just, you just live and react. And if you're still on the boat you want, you know, and no one tells you that no one tells you there's not a right way to live. And that's tough, because really, you're watching you. You're having very normal reactions that are just magnified so big that they're not manageable. And, like, you know what I mean? Like, it's the postpartum that, like just ramps everything up, because there's nothing wrong with thinking, Oh, I walked away from the kid, the kid got hit by something. Maybe I won't do that, again. You don't even like and then just move on and move on. Or you know, but you are. I don't know what I'm doing. Like, I mean, I never knew. I'll tell you. Katie the day Cole was born. The nurse came in with him. A couple hours later, he was born kind of cold, like so they had to warm them up. And so he's gone for a couple of hours. And they brought him into the room. They wheeled him in on like one of these little like, I don't know, to get to go. I don't even know what to say it's like a bassinet, but up on top of a rolling like piece of furniture. Yeah, right. And they roll them in. And you're like, Oh, the baby's here. And it didn't take two seconds like I looked at my wife and we were both like, hey, hey, hey, easy where she going? Cuz she turned around. She's like, enjoy the baby. And we were like, Whoa, like, like we actually said, Where are you going? And she's like, well, you know, she can spend time with the baby. I'm like, we don't I think what I tried to be funny, I said, you don't know us. But you might be breaking a law leaving that baby with us, like I like we're not, we don't and she goes out, you'll be fine. And she just left. And we were fine. But I wasn't depressed while I was trying to do it. You know what I mean? So, but every feeling you've described, so far, everyone knows those feelings. Just not everyone gets them in a moment when they, they aren't as clear minded as they would be in a normal situation. So so the medication did it help you?

Katie 30:49
Yeah. And so I had been going to this like therapist that they do through my husband's department, and they do some of like, different behavioral therapy and different things. And I was like, super skeptical. And then, you know, I just assumed they'd be like, Here, take medication. And that's not the case, like, but when I did go in, they were like, hey, like, I obviously was like, a mess. At that point, I didn't even want to go, I went in. And of course, they like have, they had to fill out a survey online. And he's like, looking at the results. And he's like, you know, start talking to me about it. And I just kind of like, completely broke down. He's like, there's something seriously going on. And this is like, so outside of your control. And that was the first time that it like occurred to me that like, it wasn't my fault, or it wasn't like something that I did, right. And so he was like, you know, a lot of people actually have it happen, you know, more like three to six months after the baby, rather than, you know, two to three weeks, like the baby blues, or right after, which was something I had never heard. I mean, I didn't know tons about postpartum depression and stuff. But it was something that like, I never even occurred to me. And so we had done some different things. And I was meeting with him. I think it wasn't maybe twice a week or once a week for a little while. And it was just to the point where like, I would start to feel better. And then by the time I came back, something had happened. And I mean, our lives are me and my husband live a crazy life, it seems like we always have something going on or changing. And so something would happen, it would, it would just like, put me right back to the start. And then it was kind of to the point where he's like, okay, you know, call your doctor which it worked out. But he's like, just call your doctor right now and say, like, you need to come in, and you need to get on something. And for some reason, that was like a really hard thing for me to even ask for or do. And so I did it in his office, like as I was balling, and they got me in that same day. And he's like, it'll take a little while to work. But even in the first couple of weeks, like I noticed, it felt kind of like a weight lifted off like, and we ended up increasing my dose later on, just to kind of help get back to like a normal steady state. But it was something I had fought for a while. Because part of it was from just like, my aviation and getting my medical and part of it was just like, you know, I don't want to go on this and be on it forever. And I felt like doing therapy, I could fix it myself. But then having to take that extra step felt like, it still kind of felt like I was failing, and I didn't do enough the right way to

Scott Benner 33:33
avoid it. You're doing a very good job of explaining this. Thank you. Would they give you some like Wellbutrin?

Katie 33:39
Um, it was so awful off.

Scott Benner 33:42
How long were you on it for?

Katie 33:45
I was actually on it for a year and so that which I am kind of upset, or I am not upset about it. I wish my OB would have been better about it. I mean, I went in, obviously, my therapist had kind of sent me over and so he's like, Here, take this, like, some notes or whatever. And my OB opened it up or whatever, and looked at it and like, she's looking at me like, Are you kidding me? Like you're living like this? Well, yeah. And so she basically wrote me a prescription and she's like, Well, do you need to stay home from work or anything like anything else? And I was like, no. And she wrote me the prescription and sent me on the way on my way. And that was kind of the end of it. She's like, if you don't feel better, you know, call back or whatever. And we can change the dosage. And so I did when a little bit later, but it wasn't anything like driven by them. Like if I hadn't had been seeing this therapist, which, like he saved my life. Because I like without him. I don't think I would have been able to navigate it. And it's just like along with the diabetes stuff where it just depends on if you get a good doctor or not, but they would have just wrote me the prescription and who knows never seen me again and talking with him. He's like it actually takes a while. For it to kind of like, really work and balance everything out. Yeah, like, it's not something you just take for, like, you know, two weeks you feel better and when you get off like, and so he recommend doing it for about a year and he's like, as long as you're feeling better and stuff, then you can kind of go back off of it. And if you don't, or you start going off of it, and you don't feel better, then just stay on it kind of thing. And so, I had been feeling better pretty quickly, but I just kind of stayed on it for that year. timeframe.

Scott Benner 35:27
Can you tell me more about how the talk therapy helped you?

Katie 35:32
Yeah, I think like, in the beginning, it was like, even just recognizing like, okay, just because you got a bug bite doesn't mean it's your fault. Or even if it for some reason, somehow is over, you could have avoided it like that it didn't have to like spiral, quite as far. Um, and I don't remember exactly what the technique is. It's like I rapid eye movement therapy. And so it's kind of weird when they'd have you, like, watch his finger and they walk you kind of through scenarios. But not like, necessarily exactly like your life scenarios, but different scenarios. And it just helps, like, process it. They do it for my husband's department, especially like if they have like, an incident or trauma or something like that. And they can go and do kind of the same thing, just to help kind of work through it. Yeah. And so you've done some of that. And then part of it was just like, one of the days. And it was probably the best advice I got was he's like, Okay, if you want parenting information, or you need like things or whatever, because I think we were getting close to the age we were gonna start food. And they have like the baby, I don't know if you've heard of it, baby led weaning, and so you give them like, more like real foods and just let them figure it out. And you just like cut it safely rather than baby foods and stuff. Yeah. And I just felt like overwhelmed. I'm like, Well, what should we be doing? What if she chokes? Like I was still kind of in that paranoid stage. And he's like, just go buy baby food. Or if you're, like, concerned and want he's like research the very best parenting book and go by the parenting book. And when you have questions, only consult that don't consult 100 people online.

Scott Benner 37:10
Yeah, don't get 15 different opinions, because you can't pick between them.

Katie 37:18
Or he's like, or call your pediatrician and see what they recommend. But like, don't keep searching or looking for more possibilities. And so just kind of working through that. And then I mean, I, we ended up doing some stuff to like work through. I never really realized like how much it impacted me that, like, in the first year of my husband's job, they had lost an officer. And so like he's like, it's probably kind of stemming a little bit from that, that you just kind of moved on. And now things are kind of bumbling, like bubbling up with everything else going on.

Scott Benner 37:53
Here maybe Was that your first opportunity in your life to think Oh, wow, people just die surprisingly, like unexpectedly people die. Was that that officer was that the first time you experienced something like that?

Katie 38:08
Yeah. And more than that, it was like the fact that it was someone on my husband, same shift. So same squat, there's like six or seven of them. And my husband could have been the one to go to that college just as easily. Yeah. And like he was the first one. Like one of the first two people on the scene. And more of it was just like, I got a text out when this a little bit off topic. But he sent me a text, he lost his phone in the whole thing. So he had sent me a text that said, I'm okay from an unknown number. So like that when I got that that like made me panic for a minute. I'm like, why is like a random timer sending me I'm okay. And so I responded back and I'm like, Who is this and somebody said, you know, your officer lost his phone. He wanted to make sure you knew what it was. Okay. So like that had happened. I started kind of like panicking a little bit. And I'm like looking through online what's going on. Of course, it's on Facebook in the news that there's a shoot out and two officers or two officers are wounded or down. And they the suspect still inside. And so at this point, I'm just watching the news, getting live updates, and then all of a sudden it's possibly a third. Well, it's been an hour since I talked to him and gotten that I'm okay message. And looking back now, and I wish somebody when he started the job would have said, you know, the news is a couple hours behind, because when he finally came home, and I could talk to him because like he was dealing with the situation and then had to be debriefed and all of this stuff. So I mean, it took hours before I got a phone call even that he was coming home, ya know what was going on? And while he knew when he had sent the text like it was actually over. me watching the news still fills and sees that it's still happening.

Scott Benner 39:58
I was gonna say he's back In the station talking to somebody about what went on and you feel like he's still there.

Katie 40:04
Yeah. And then like, they're still getting updates. And now they're saying there's three people. So I'm like, Okay, well, he was okay. Two hours ago when there was two people. And now they're saying it's three officers like what's going on. And so there was just like, a lot from that day. And that like, not knowing I think that impacted me more than, like, obviously, the day like I was, I knew what had happened. But like, it had kind of stuck with me more than I had realized.

Scott Benner 40:32
When my good friend, a good friend of mine is a police officer. And we were really young, like, in our early 20s. And a guy he worked with committed suicide. And he was, like, I can picture him in my head, even though I didn't know him that well, he was fit and attractive and had been in the military. And, you know, seemed like he had it all together. And then one day, he just took his own life. And I still worry about my friend. It's like 30 years later, you know, and because I'm like, Oh, I didn't know, I didn't know he had a job where the suicide rate was different. Like, I didn't know that. And now I know that, and I, I've never forgotten it. I don't have intrusive thoughts about it. But it is a thing. My point is that it's a thing that has stuck with me. And I wasn't dealing with postpartum, you know, and, and so I'm just trying to like, I'm trying to make sure people understand how it ramps up everything. You know, how depression or anxiety can just take, take a one and turn it to 100 for you. And, yeah, then you get caught in the loop and you can't get out of it.

Katie 41:42
And I think that was the hardest part for me is like, I couldn't take that step back and be like, Okay, this is like getting to the point where it's getting excessive or like, way out of hand, like this is a bug bite, and we'll watch it for an hour. And if for some reason, it looks like it's spreading, we'll call the doctor and we'll like address it then. Like that logic just was not there in any sort of way.

Scott Benner 42:05
Yeah. You have it now? Yes, I do have it

Katie 42:09
now. And like, it was amazing the difference that the medication did make for me, but like I said it without, I think the combination of finding someone to like, walk me through it and help me figure it all out. Yeah, in the process, as well as going and getting on the medication. Like I don't know, if I would have ended up in the same place.

Scott Benner 42:30
Yeah, I think all of this is so important, Katie, that. I don't know how obvious it is to people who listen to the podcast or not. But almost every day, I get contacted by some company who's like, we want to sell our widget or whatever through you. You know, we want to buy an app, we want you to, you know, tell people about our promo code, and, you know, etc. And I turned down almost all of it. Because while a I don't want the podcast to be a billboard, and be like, I don't see the value in it for you. But very recently, I was approached by a company that was representing like an online therapy company. And I said, I'm, I'm gonna do that one. You know, because I know how many people could use to talk to somebody, but don't know how to get involved in it, find it, how, what if they just don't realize it's a thing they need? And like, That's what I keep hearing with you. Like, I wonder if like, if you were if you were listening to the pregnancy episodes getting ready to get pregnant. And in the middle, it was like, hey, this episode of the podcast is sponsored by better help. And it's a online therapy thing. I wonder if two weeks into you feeling weird, if you wouldn't have thought, Oh, I wonder if this is something that that would help me with. And because it works that way with other things. You know, when people are MDI and they're like, Oh, I wonder if a pump would help you think, oh, on the podcast, they talked about Omni pod. And like, there's, I'm not saying you have to buy an omni pod. But there's a direction, right, like a thing I can start with. And I don't think people think about therapy at all, honestly, like, and it's a shame that you have to get into a situation where you're standing in a room thinking my could just leave, and then they'd be okay, which is obviously in no way shape or form a valid thought, right? Like you leaving your family is not the answer. And, and yet, there you are, and you had to get that far into it. And you had to get to the point where your husband was like, I can take you to the hospital. Like I mean, do you know what I mean? Like, that's it. People shouldn't have to get that far into a problem to realize it's a problem or to know that they need to look for help. And anyway, I just think talk therapy is really important for people.

Katie 44:54
I think it is too and I think the other thing about it is and I think it's getting better but like I There's just kind of like a stigma about it. And that, you know, most people don't need to need to do it for, like, unless something's going on. But if I had been more, I think exposed to it or even, you know, heard more about it, but it wasn't something that had been in my life prior like, No, and I and my family are new, really, if they had gone, talked about it, or mentioned how they did it, or anything like that, which, since, like, everything, I actually had talked to my mother in law, and she had gotten through postpartum depression and stuff, too. And, you know, kind of had some similar feelings, but it wasn't like we ever talked about that brighter, it wasn't like a topic that like anybody checked in and was making sure you're okay. I feel like if maybe that were like, understanding that you could just get online and talk to somebody. Right? Earlier on, it wouldn't have gotten so far. Yeah, no, by the time it had, and my husband's like, well, they have like, you know, they'll take you to hospital and they have like a hole, which he didn't explain it very well at the time, but like a whole unit to help you and, like, whatever you need type thing. It just made me feel like well, now you just think I'm a crazy person,

Scott Benner 46:07
you thought you were gonna go through some double doors, they were gonna swing shot, and then they'd wrap you up in a sheet real tight, and nobody would ever see you again. Like, yeah, I understand.

Katie 46:17
That, yeah, I think it is super helpful. And I wish that it wouldn't have taken me so long to figure that

Scott Benner 46:24
out. Well, but how would you have known? Honestly, yeah, and now look what you're doing, you're gonna lay this thing down here, this recording, and other people will hear it. And then the next person who thinks oh, I'm going to listen to that pregnancy series from that podcast, and then this that starts to happen to them, they'll think I could go talk to a therapist. And here's why a therapist is important. It's not, it's it's an impartial third party. That's what's important. It's somewhat because you say, Well, why can't I just talk to my husband? Or why can't I just talk to my mom, because when that happens, you're already in a state. And you're not as clear headed as you want to be. And then a person who you have relationships with, and sometimes, beef with you don't I mean, like you've been, how many? How many times? Have you been at odds with your mother? And so in that moment, you don't need the face of your mom's standing in front of you going, hey, you know, what I think is happening. You're, you seem depressed, because you might not take that well, from a person who is who is that close to you. I know, that sounds crazy. But I think that's true. Like, like, here's a exploded example. If your girls grow up to play soccer, here's my advice. Tell your husband not to coach the team. There'll be more successful in soccer if he's the coach. But it's a difficult thing to be. In another scenario being told what to do by your father, it just doesn't work. I've never once successfully seen a man walk to a pitcher's mound to talk to his own son. It doesn't go well, in so you know, doesn't mean you don't need the conversation. You just don't need it from somebody who you have other history with. And so that's why I think therapy is really important. But again, let's get to it before the wheels are off and the entrance on fire, you know what I mean?

Katie 48:21
Yeah, yeah. And I think, like in leading up to, like actually getting into therapy and like agreeing to going and not completely backing out and wanting to, but like, my husband knew what was going on, I talked to him. And like, that's how we figure it out to set it up. But like, he was there and like, would like be willing to talk. But I'm like, I don't know what to say to you. Like, this is how I felt. And this is how like, it feels overwhelming. But he was had no idea how to help me or what to say. And more than that, then it just made him like I would be telling him these things. And like, he's just scared to death and like panicking and doesn't know what to do. And so while talking about it, in general is great. It really makes a difference to have somebody that like, actually can have input or advice. Yeah, like that next step, or even just like how you're looking at it. And when, like, my husband who's so close in into it, all he can see is like, panic, I just need to fix something. So like, this doesn't get worse,

Scott Benner 49:19
right? I mean, how many people have you heard come on this podcast? And at the end of it, they joke they're like, Can I send you a copay? Why? Because we had a conversation. I listened to them. I said, Oh, I know how you feel that's happened to me. And they go it has and then that feels good. Like, oh, what happens to other people too, and then you have, you know, you have a place to work from all of a sudden. Yes, it's not because I'm some like, it's not because I could be a therapist. I don't know what the hell a therapist does. You know what I mean? Like, I don't have any I don't have any training in that. It's just a conversation. And it's just I don't know, it's very helpful. So I have other questions. Okay. How do you after going through all of this, think to yourself, you know what we should do? Why don't we have another baby? Like, that's like, how do you put yourself potentially back into that situation again,

Katie 50:16
I was nervous, kind of when we first started thinking about it, I mean, I knew, I've always wanted like, two kids, like, I didn't, my husband comes from a family of five kids, I was like, I don't think we're gonna go that far. Maybe we'll try two or three. So like, I always knew I wanted another kid, but it was hard. But at the same time, I had come so far, like, even when I saw this, like notification pop up, and I kind of had forgotten completely, since it's been so long. And I kind of just moved past it, and then kind of just started living life again. And so, like, even starting to think about it before this, I was like, you know, what were even the timeframes and trying to like, think about, and that's kind of why it hit me so hard this morning, even because I just haven't, like, thought about it that much. And so I mean, it crossed my mind. But at the same time, one of the last times I had seen, like the therapists and stuff, he's like, you know, take it for a year, if you start to go off of it, and you don't feel better, or it feels worse, like either slow down how you like, go off of it, or just stay on it for longer, like, that's fine, too. And he's like, and then the next if you have another kid, and you're, you get home and start feeling this way, call your doctor and just get on the same medication and just start early, and you know, what to look for, and how to deal with it. And I think that was what I took comfort in, when we were going to start training for a second because I have some sort of like, understand understanding of it. Now, first of all, that it could even happen three to six months after I have the baby or two weeks after, and that I can just go to my doctor and say, Look, things are not right. And this is what I need to be on. And this is what I need to do. And have at least those steps to start. Good for you. Okay, before I get to where I was before,

Scott Benner 52:11
yeah, preparation, right, knowing what to look for, and, and having the, the experience that will let you pull, you know, turn the switch right away, like, Okay, I see this coming, boom, like, do something not just like, Oh, it'll be alright. Or I could probably get through it or like, say something right away. And that way, that way, you get your husband then who's kind of like, able to watch as well, and your mom and other people in your life who could say, oh, you know, we've noticed this is happening. And you told us to look out for this. And that way it feels like it's your decision. Like they're the one telling you, hey, I'm noticing the thing, but you're the one that said, let me know if you notice this. And I think that's I think that'd be really helpful. And I mean, is there a situation? I don't know? Did the doctor tell you it's possible just doesn't happen?

Katie 52:59
Yeah, and when, honestly, the doctor really didn't do anything but write me the first prescription. And since then, I've changed boobies and realize that the one I had wasn't necessarily bad, but was definitely not really helping me through my whole last pregnancy, or anytime after. But when I was talking with my therapist and stuff, he was like, there's no guarantee it would happen again. And it could start slow. Or it could be like, you know, just feeling like it hits all at once. And who knows the timeframe. But as soon as it does, you know, ask for help or go to the OB and ask and I feel like that is honestly the reason I even messaged you in the first place. Is because if someone would have told me just like if someone like when I first got diagnosed, I listened and started, I found your podcast really early. And so I knew to ask for it. Dexcom instead of just letting them like stick me on the library. And so like, knowing that I could just go in and ask or be like, you know, is this normal? That I didn't need to wait for them to be like, oh, is something seeming a little bit off because you come home with a brand new baby, everything is off in six weeks, when you go in for your follow up. Everything is still a mess. But like nobody said, you know, like if things don't get better, or things change, or you're not feeling yourself in six months, like call us and come back in and we can figure it out and take a look at things. Didn't even like think that was an option or a thing that people did?

Scott Benner 54:28
Yeah, nothing's right after you have a baby, like nothing. Do you give birth naturally? Or do you have a C section?

Katie 54:34
I did. I got induced. And so I ended up going in. It was like, we had her the next day. So 24 hours roughly. So and then I ended up having stitches that came out like a week and a half later. So then and they were like, well, we won't restrict you. You'll just go and follow up with your OB and I was like oh great. And they're like just try not to move around. I'm like, okay, that's Oh,

Scott Benner 55:00
I just won't move around. Thanks. We'll move

Katie 55:02
around now that my husband's going back to work, and I have a new work. And so, I mean, like, you're just surviving. And so like, you go to the doctor, and they're like, how are things going? You're like, well, we're all still alive. And I'm here. So we're good.

Scott Benner 55:15
No one tells you you're gonna be wearing a diaper. There's a lot of stuff that happens that you're just like, Wait, it's just all so new and, and ridiculous. Like, almost generally me like it just you're like, why is this happening? Why is that happening? Why don't my boobs feel this way? Why, like, you know, like, it's just, everything's different all of a sudden, and on top of that, someone handed you a little bag of jelly. And if you drop it, it pops. So you're like, Oh, God, you know, just it's too much. And then your husband goes back to work. You know, most other countries, you get a lot of time off after you have a baby. And, and here, it's what your husband to skip a shift to.

Katie 55:51
He actually just took vacation. So he took two weeks off. So I mean, we were the we were home for the first two weeks, which was great. Especially because yeah, like I said, My Stitches came out. And I was literally like, couldn't move without like being in so much pain. And so he was home for about two weeks, but love my husband, but he was not. Like, I love newborns and snuggling and like stuff. And he's like, Well, she doesn't want to play or do anything. So he was less involved in the newborn stage. And so it was more like on me, because I did want to snuggle and just like love on her, but Right. And he didn't know, obviously, like he was the same way as you were, we both were, you know, deliberately take her out and they hand her back. And they're like, Okay, we'll come back and check in an hour after you fed her. And I was like, and how do I do that?

Scott Benner 56:43
Did he do the things like, did he like work on the house or go outside or try to clean the cars, that kind of stuff

Katie 56:50
completely, took apart his car and added stuff and cleaned every nook and cranny? Basically in his two weeks off? And he was around like if I needed something, but like, he just didn't know what to do with her being so small.

Scott Benner 57:04
Yeah. Katie, I unfairly know who you are through the Facebook group. And this is all like, like, multiplied for me by the fact that you appear to be like, 15 years old. Do you know what I mean? Like you're, it's, I don't know what, like, when you were talking earlier, and I was like, Oh, God, like you just, I mean, honestly, a photo. How old? Are you?

Katie 57:26
I am 26. You

Scott Benner 57:28
have no trouble passing for like 19. Right? Yeah, yeah. So it may it made it even more difficult, like for me to like, listen to you, and you're doing such an intimate, like, really, sincerely. I'm not. I'm not patronizing you. But like, you're doing a really good job of describing this. And it's not that I didn't expect you to, but I have had people on your age and a little younger. And I'm like, oh, so they're not going to tell their story. But and I have to pull it out of you that pulled out of them. But I feel like I could have started this and said, Hey Kati, so tell me about your postpartum. And I could have left, and you did such a good job of talking about it. Because of that, I want to ask you, if there's anything that I didn't ask you, or directions, we didn't go, that we should have things that you want people to know.

Katie 58:20
I think the biggest thing, which I'll be honest, like I didn't even when this finally when you first asked me I was like, Oh, I don't know. And then part of me was like, I just wish somebody would have told me so. Because I am not like a extrovert. Like I would just sit at home and never talk to people I work from home, kind of like, you know, in my bubble. And so yesterday, I told my husband, I was like, you know, when you sign up for something, and then you're like, I gotta do it. I was having that feeling. And just because I that's just not my personality. But I was like, You know what, this is something that if it helps anybody not have to go through what I go through just because they know they can ask for help. Or that they can go to a therapist or say you know, something's not right, then it'll be worth it. So I just, that's why I wanted my to say what I had to say, or just make it known. I guess the only thing is is like during the time, like I was trying to get it all figured out like my blood sugar's fell apart completely. I didn't pay any attention. And I was just like, trying to survive. And so I had worked with Jenny, and in my head, like, I was still like overthinking everything. And I finally just got to the point where I was like, you know, I wasn't paying her anymore, because we did the nine months. And I was like, No, I'm just going to, like, message her and see if she'll help me. And because I just, I needed to start over. Like, you know, when your settings are just like so far gone that like nothing's working anymore. So I sent her a message and I was just like, hey, I ended up you know, delivered. I mean, because this is like six months later. I mean, it's a long time since I've even talked to her. And I was like, you know, this is what happened I ended up getting the postpartum depression and my settings are awful and I am just trying to Like, get my life back on track. Can you just take one last look at my Dexcom and my numbers and maybe, like, start me out better because I also didn't have the best endo at the time. They just looked at my agencies, and they're like, Yeah, your agency is good. So, you know, we can back off your insulin if you get too low. But that was like the extent of an appointment. And so even like, that was a huge step for me to like, actually ask Jenny for help, even though like, I knew I wasn't paying for it or like that she didn't, wasn't obligated to help me. And it was as simple as I sent her an email. And she's like, of course, let me see what it is. And she's like, I'm so sorry, you had to deal with that. Like, I would love to help you get back on track. And it was something so simple. But even the thought of like, asking for that kind of help felt? I don't know. Like, I just like I had felt kind of through everything. Like I wasn't living up to like what I was supposed to be your the expectations or my role? Yeah. And so I just wanted people to know that. If it does happen, it can happen six months later, which is not apparently that uncommon note if no one tells you. And there is hope.

Scott Benner 1:01:15
Yeah. Oh, well, I'm glad you reached back to Jenny through, she's beautiful.

Katie 1:01:18
She's amazing.

Scott Benner 1:01:21
I'm just going to add here, because I'm old, that probably going to reiterate something I said earlier, but maybe expand on a little bit. There are no rules about life. There are no rules about how you raise your kid, about what your house looks like about what job you have, how much money you make, or don't make, you know, if you live in your bubble, or go outside of it. Like there's just there's no, there shouldn't be an expectation other than the one you set for yourself. And I know that everybody sees outside influences, and thinks well, that's it that's attainable. That person did this, I can do that. I want that. I I'm at a point in my life where I believe all the hippie stuff that I thought again, when I was 20, didn't really mean like, where I'm like, none of this matters about family and love and, and all that stuff. And then you get caught because you're like, Oh, I made a baby, the baby needs a shirt, the baby's gonna need a shoe might need to have those shoes, how am I going to pay for those, we're going to drive somewhere I want to drive somewhere in a safe car, I want to, you know, make sure they go to college, I want to make sure that they're okay. Like you start having all these things that you think you need to do. And it just, it's not really so like, it's all sort of an illusion, Katie, like really, you just you just wake up and live and make make make good decisions. And then mainly good things happen. And when bad things happen, keep making good decisions, and it turns around, and if it doesn't, ask someone for help, because it's not easy. That really, but to have an expectation constantly that the thing you have, that the life you're living is not enough, that there's more or better. That's a fallacy. Like, that's, that's not true. Like, that's you setting goals you can't find and I know that's not specifically what happened to you. But I think that maybe it's good for people to hear in this context that you can't really do much wrong. You know, don't hit people don't scream at them. They're, you don't I mean, have good intentions. Actually try and, and the rest sort of works itself out. You know, that makes me calm. Just the knowledge of I think of things backwards sometimes. But I always think like, well, we're all gonna be dead in the end anyway. Like, like you don't like so why don't I be happy today? While I'm living? It's all about now. Honestly. I don't know. I hope that's a value to people when they're listening. You were really terrific. I can't thank you enough for doing this. I know you didn't want to so I doubly appreciate it. Yeah,

Katie 1:04:13
I'm glad we finally got to it. Yeah, because we had it on the books once and my whole family ended up sick that morning and you're like, well, it'll be like eight months before we can get on

Scott Benner 1:04:23
there get it right on the air. You don't you shouldn't have to wait any longer. But even this morning, you were like a few minutes behind that start time and I'm like is the scroll not gonna come again.

Katie 1:04:35
You're just did not want to open the link. I had to like, go and get the Zoom ID separately and paste it in because if I click the link, my computer just started. I had this spinning rainbow wheel of death.

Scott Benner 1:04:46
I never gave up on you. It was only four minutes but I didn't give up just so you know.

Katie 1:04:52
Early in the morning is a big ask.

Scott Benner 1:04:53
Oh, you know what the first thought is, is did I get up and get moving this early for nothing. It's like that. And then I go, I'll just edit it all day. That's good. It'll make time for me. And but then there you are, and I was pretty thrilled. I'm gonna let you go and say thank you, but I want to ask you a question when we get off. Is that okay? Yeah. Okay. Thank you so much for doing this. I really appreciate it. Of course

a huge thank you to one of today's sponsors, G voc glucagon, find out more about Chivo Capo pen at G Vogue glucagon.com forward slash juicebox. you spell that GVOKEGLUC AG o n.com. Forward slash juicebox. And of course, I want to thank Katie for how brave she was today cannot be easy to come forward and share stories like this. If you're looking for a community around diabetes, check out Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes on Facebook. It's a private group with nearly 40,000 people in it type ones type twos. Lotta you have questions about pregnancy, anything, those people are wonderful, T one D exchange.org Ford slash juicebox. Don't forget that when go fill out the survey. If you're looking for a list of other pregnancy based episodes, we have them in the private Facebook group, just go to the feature tab, or you can go to juicebox podcast.com. Find a whole list of them there. And then I don't know listen to them there if you want online or go back into your podcast app, and then search for those episodes. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.