#867 Big Lou

March 15, 2023Scott Benner

Lou has type 1 diabetes and a lifetime of stories.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 867 of the Juicebox Podcast

I had some good fortune recently, and I'm gonna share it with you. I got to speak with Lewis. Lewis is 70 years old. He's had diabetes since he was in his 30s. And we're going to pick through his life. This is just such a great conversation, I can't begin to tell you how much I think you're going to enjoy it. While you're listening. Of course, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise. Please Always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. We're becoming bold with insulin. If you happen to be a US resident who has type one diabetes, or is the caregiver of someone with type one, I would like to ask you kindly to go to T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox. Just join the registry and complete the survey. It shouldn't take you more than 10 minutes. The questions you'll be asked are totally HIPAA compliant. You can remain absolutely anonymous, and your answers to simple questions about diabetes will help to move diabetes research forward. You want to help people with type one diabetes, complete this survey T one D exchange.org. Forward slash Juicebox.

Podcast this episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by Omni pod five. Learn more at Omni pod.com forward slash juice box the Omni pod five is a tubeless automated insulin pump system that I'll tell you more about in the ads. You should check it out though. Omni pod.com forward slash juice box. This show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries. G voc hypo Penn. Find out more at G voc glucagon.com. Forward slash juicebox. Great. That's pretty much it then do you have any questions before we begin?

Lou 2:09
No. I just appreciate you asking me to do this podcast, my daughter in law business due every day.

Scott Benner 2:18
Wow. That's lovely. I'm I appreciate you don't you have an interesting story? I can't wait to hear it. I'll tell you what, let's just keep going like and start. You can introduce yourself. You don't need to use your last name. Tell me a little bit about yourself. I'll ask you a couple questions and we'll have a conversation.

Lou 2:34
All right. My name is Luis mestres. I'm a 70 year old retired educator. I served in the United States Marine Corps, which I'm very proud of. And I've had diabeetus now for close to 38 years. Wow. 3840. If

Scott Benner 2:54
you were 32 when you got it? Yes, sir. And it was type one.

Lou 2:59
Actually, they said it was type two.

Scott Benner 3:04
So at your diagnosis, you were told type two didn't turn out that you actually had type two.

Lou 3:11
Yes, I guess so.

Scott Benner 3:12
Isn't that interesting? So what was your management like back then? Did they give you a diet change oral medication? Did you inject something?

Lou 3:22
You know, it was really, really strange, because I remember the doctor having the nurse came in, she brought in an orange and a syringe and kind of showed me how to do it. And that was basically the extent of the training I got. Yeah. So over the years, I've learned to self manage. I went to another doctor. And he said the same thing, pretty much that I would learn how to take care of myself more than possibly a doctor good because I knew my own body. But I struggled. And I've had two brothers who have passed away. One was 42. One was 40. They both were type one diabetes. And again, I think the most important thing I want to say is because of a lack of education. My brothers did not do well with diabetes. My mother was not very knowledgeable. back then. I actually we approached the the diabetes foundation for some assistance. And I'm talking now 30 Some 30 Some years ago, not now. But it seemed like they were more interested in donations and they were in assistance. And so I really wanted to send my brothers to camps, so that they could learn how to manage and now that's really available to people. I was I'm on dialysis for a while. And thank God I was able to get a kidney transplant. And all of that was the result of poor management on the diabeetus. Thank God, I'm doing pretty well. Now. I do have an insulin pump, the tantum that I use, and it is helped immensely

Scott Benner 5:24
Great. Lou, I want to pick through this a little bit though. So you're 32 years old. When you're diagnosed? Your brothers already have diabetes.

Lou 5:32
No, no, no. No, they were. No, they one was probably five years old.

Scott Benner 5:41
Little you had a five year old brother when you were 32.

Lou 5:46
Well, let me think about that. He was probably 12 Maybe, okay, that's good. Yeah, my mom had nine kids.

Scott Benner 5:53
Whoa, that's what I'm trying to get to your mom had nine kids. That's That's something else. So So of nine children to had type one diabetes. You I still think I'm not sure what you have yet. Like, we're gonna figure that out while we're talking. Was there any other diabetes in your family? Or how about other autoimmune stuff like thyroid issues or celiac disease, visit a Lago? Anything like that.

Lou 6:19
Oh, I have a brother that has factor five. Oh, geez. And I have a sister that has a low blood sugar. She's not a diabetic, but she has to watch her diet because every once in a while, she'll go low.

Scott Benner 6:37
And hold on a second. factor five. It's a blood clotting disorder. Yes. Okay. Give me a second to figure out if that's autoimmune or not.

Lou 6:54
No, it's not. It's not. No, I don't I don't know why I told you that at the beginning. Okay. It's not.

Scott Benner 7:01
It's still interesting, but okay. Yeah. All right. So I'm going back to you being diagnosed and getting given that syringe. So if you were, they told you you had type two diabetes. That's what they told me. But you were injecting insulin right away. Immediately. Regular and mph, or, or cloudy? And what do you remember what it was called? Back?

Lou 7:26
I think back then I, I want to say it was like 7030. Okay.

Scott Benner 7:31
So I mean, not for nothing. But that sounds like you have type one diabetes. It could be. And then they tell you type two because of your age. That's true. You know, because I That's how their brains used to work over a certain age. If you have diabetes, it must be type two. If it happens to you when you're a kid, oh, you have the juvenile diabetes type one. So okay, so you manage like this, going forward right away? Did they tell you about? Because basically, when you're shooting insulin like that, you're just putting in insulin and then eating at certain times, right? Like, that's the extent of the management.

Lou 8:12
And it was poor management, because I was always chasing myself. When I think back now, I would check my blood sugar. I didn't know too much about correcting. I would just take insulin every time I ate. And so I would not take the insulin until either after I ate or while I was eating, and so constantly, I was chasing myself. You know, I know now that I need to take 20 minutes before I eat. So that I'm somewhat balanced.

Scott Benner 8:47
Right? How long? I guess is a long time ago. But how long did you do the 7030? And then when did it changed? Because I'm assuming you've probably changed insulin? One, two, maybe three or four times in your life, right?

Lou 9:03
Yes, I probably have tried every insulin there is. And what's so sad. A lot of it was determined by the insurance. Yeah. You know, there was some insulin so that the doctors recommended and the insurance wouldn't pay. So I'd go back and they'd say, Well, okay, let's try this. Yeah. So insurance would pay.

Scott Benner 9:23
At some point. I imagine you went on Lantis and human log. Yes. You remember about when that was? Probably about 10 years ago. Really? Okay. Yeah. And before that before 10 years ago, you were doing regular mph.

Lou 9:41
I think I was just doing regular regular. Okay. And I think that was the extent of my management with Elaine. Oh, was still young and active and I think my body could take it, but it can't now.

Scott Benner 9:56
And no one's ever said to you, you're type one. It's a Always have you ever checked you done a C peptide test or anything like that? No? Sure, no. Okay. And so about 10 years ago, you go to Lantis. And humor log, is that when you go to a pump?

Lou 10:12
No, I'm only been on a pump less than a year. Wow, you

Scott Benner 10:15
you injected for 37 years? Yes. Were you at least using a pen? Or were they giving you syringes? How are you doing it?

Lou 10:24
syringes? No kidding. Do Yeah, I used to prick my finger and use the syringes. And that's basically what my brothers did. Yeah, again, I think the biggest thing I'd want to say today is get educated. You know, the lack of education hurt my entire family, certainly. And you're probably listening to this thinking like, well, golly, why don't you do some research? Or we did? We did to the extent that that's why we've changed so much now. You know, and my grandson has it now. He's had about a year, right. And so, you know, my, my son and my daughter in law, especially, are on top of it every day. They research constantly, they, of course, listen to you, they take him to all kinds of appointments and research management. They've got him on the, you know, they monitor it constantly on their phones, and they even have the school nurse, monitor it as you walk by the classroom.

Scott Benner 11:33
Lou, you're a good person to ask this too. But tell people when you tried to learn something 30 years ago, there was asking a doctor or finding a book, right?

Lou 11:43
Basically, I was pretty much it. Yeah. And, you know, the other thing is, is that I don't know. I don't want this to come out wrong. But culturally. I think my diet hurt us as a family. Okay. You know, you have to really, really discipline and monitor what you actually eat. Because, culturally, a lot of very rich foods and carbs were available to us.

Scott Benner 12:22
That's what we had. What are some of the staples of that diet? Things you ate over and over again?

Lou 12:28
You know, like, beans and tortillas and sweets. You know, just

Scott Benner 12:36
a lot of rice with things.

Lou 12:39
Or not so much rice but a lot of potatoes. Okay, and, and fast foods like pizza. Oh my gosh. And it's amazing. Different foods affect me differently. I can eat one piece of pizza and I'm 400 I mean, pizza, just it. I try not to ever eating pizza.

Scott Benner 13:01
Interesting. When you say pizza. Do you mean from like a brand store? Like Domino's or Pizza Hut? Yeah.

Lou 13:10
Actually now, any, any any. It just seems now as a selling product, they make it as big and as thick as they possibly can. So you buy it? Yeah, you know, if I eat pizza, I get the thinnest possible pizza I can get. And maybe one piece. But you know, when you're uneducated and young and hungry, and you eat three or four pieces, you know, and then you wonder why your 500

Scott Benner 13:38
Louis, I imagine there's a special place in hell for the first person that said we could put cheese inside of the crust. You know?

Lou 13:48
Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Scott Benner 13:51
That's not a valuable use of marketing. Okay, so, and listen, you said once or twice something that made me want to ask did you as an adult was was were your finances an issue?

Lou 14:06
In the beginning, they were

Scott Benner 14:09
and you had diabetes at that point.

Lou 14:13
You know, when you start out as a teacher 40 years ago, you know, my first contract was $9,000 as us as a classroom teacher, and and then you have a couple of kids. You know, insulin used to be extremely expensive. unbelievably expensive.

Scott Benner 14:37
Did your diabetes shaped the way you build a family were you thinking more children and then you ended up having or did you do about all

Lou 14:45
you wanted to do? No, no, that that. You know, I know it has my other brothers and sisters. Yeah.

You know, they, they've either had one child or two at the Most, but we had three children and we didn't think about the diabetes. Right?

Scott Benner 15:06
And then your and your three kids don't have type one diabetes at all. But but your grants your grandchild does. Yes, right. Okay. Wow. Okay, hold on a second. I have to center myself here for a second. Wow. Um you know, it's funny when you said how much your first teaching contract was. It made me feel bad. And guilty actually felt guilty.

Lou 15:32
Yeah, $9,000 is what I started out with.

Scott Benner 15:35
Yeah, jeez. I mean, listen. 40 years ago, I was 11 years old. But I got my first job. Two years after that. I cleaned up a pet shop after school and ran the cash register. And I made I made $3 an hour to do that. Golly.

Lou 15:53
Yeah. You know, I tell my grandkids this kind of stories now. And they just I don't think they realize, you know, we've talked for $1 an hour as a kid.

Scott Benner 16:05
No, I know. I know. So what kind of teacher were you?

Lou 16:09
I was a history teacher. And for many years, I taught New Mexico history and civics?

Scott Benner 16:18
To what age groups? Did you jump around? Or did you stay in? Oh, middle school, middle school, I

Lou 16:22
was always in middle school.

Scott Benner 16:24
Okay. During that time, you're just injecting what, twice a day. Morning and at dinner.

Lou 16:39
When I first started out, I was pretty frightened of the whole process. So as I said, I, I think the biggest culprit with diabetes, when you don't have a lot of knowledge, is you're constantly chasing yourself. And what I mean by that is that you either don't take enough insulin, or you take too much, and you take it too late. You know, now, we all know that you've got to take your insulin 2030 minutes before you eat. And you've got to be able to figure out what you're going to eat. You know, and that's why I like I'm not pushing any particular one, but I use a tandem. And it does all the math for you.

Scott Benner 17:30
Yeah. Are you using control IQ? Are you wearing Dexcom? as well? Yes. Wow, good. Bye. That's it. That's a big change, huh?

Lou 17:39
Oh, my God, it's like, life changing. And I owe a lot of it to my daughter in law. She is just, I mean, she, she's, like, the family blessing. And, you know, anything I need to know, I call her. But basically, I now understand the importance of, of technology and knowledge if you're going to live with diabetes. So,

Scott Benner 18:13
Louis, is it fair to say that your understanding of diabetes at the core of it is about how insulin works, the timing of the insulin, and how food impacts you? But those are the two major things that you pay attention to?

Lou 18:26
Yeah, yeah, basically. And I think your body changes because I know I went through a period of time where I don't know I call it honeymoon. Because in the 47 years, I've had it, there are times when almost insulin resistant, and I have to take more insulin, then there are times periods of over like 40 years where it just seemed like I don't know. I don't want to say that I didn't have any diabetes at the time. But there were times when like, my blood sugar's ran really great. Yeah, for periods of time. And then, you know, there were nothing over these 40 years for me to be walking around with a 500 blood sugar level.

Scott Benner 19:23
And it's you weren't paying attention to the level that you are now. So if back then, if you I don't know, took on a home project and were very active outdoors for a week or something like that, and needed less insulin that wouldn't have occurred to you then that that might be one of the reasons why. Correct? Yeah, you weren't thinking about that way. No. At what age do you realize that you're having complications?

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At what age do you realize that you're having complications?

Lou 23:12
Probably, you know, after my brother's passed, which has been about 10 to 12 years, I knew I was really in trouble because I knew where I was headed. And that's about the time my doctor told me you have got to get on dialysis. And, of course I fought it. And you know, one day he just said, Look, you're lucky you're live in America. If you lived in my country, I'd be telling you to get ready to die. And so I was on dialysis for four and a half years. And I chose peritoneal dialysis. So I had a tube in my stomach and I hooked up to a machine every night. And these three bags of solution would go into my belly and through osmosis I, you know, cleared the impurities from my body and got up at the morning, got up morning and there was another bag full of this bad solution and I'd empty it and I'd gone to work. I did peritoneal dialysis for four and a half years and during that time, I was a school principal. So you know, you do what you have to do if you want to live. Yeah.

Scott Benner 24:42
I have a couple of questions around that story. So my first one is, what do you mean you resist it. When the doctor said you need dialysis?

Lou 24:51
I didn't want to go on it. And I just said well, let's just see where this goes.

Scott Benner 24:57
Where do you think it was gonna go?

Lou 25:00
As you know, along with depression, and along with diabeetus, sometimes you have some really serious mood swings I'm not talking about to the extent of depression, and maybe so. But you diabetes creates some real serious mood swings. By the grace of God, I have the most wonderful wife. And luckily, she is a nurse. And again, I'm blessed, because a lot of her background is diabetic care. And so, you know, she's aware of many of the things that is are happening to me. So, people with diabetes need to surround themselves with either a support group, or people that are very knowledgeable.

Scott Benner 25:56
Can you tell me some of the ways that your wife has been helpful to you?

Lou 25:59
Well, get her vast knowledge. You know, she constantly monitors me. She's such, you know, an assistance, like, you know, before I got on, on on the tandem, you know, she was constantly like, have you checked your blood sugar? You know, what are you going to eat? You better think about whether you want to eat that or not. You know, it wasn't nagging. It was helping,

Scott Benner 26:32
ya know, that making up? Were you? I don't know, would you say that you were ignoring it? Or just,

Lou 26:41
you have a tendency to ignore it? Yeah. You just have a tendency. It's just just, you know, you know, it's bad. And you still

Scott Benner 26:52
is it that you don't want to have diabetes? And you get a moment where you just want to not think about it?

Lou 26:59
I've gone through that. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I tell people, I'm as close to being an alcoholic as an alcoholic. Because, you know, I know certain foods are killing me and I still eat it. It just, you know, you know that, that same from the good book? Lord, you know, things I should be doing, I continue to do.

Scott Benner 27:24
Do you think it's from your childhood? Do you eat food that you remember fondly? Of course, yeah.

Lou 27:30
Yes. You know, a lot of Mexican food. And even now, you know, I know, tortillas are killing me, but boy, I want to eat them.

Scott Benner 27:41
Not gonna buy a low carb tortilla?

Lou 27:44
Well, we do we do that now. I know better now, you know, and I get the smallest ones. And that's where my wife comes in. You know, she buys the smallest ones. They're not the huge one. And, and they're low carb. Yeah.

Scott Benner 28:01
Do you feel fortunate to be 70?

Lou 28:05
Oh, my God, I, you know, after my brothers passed, and, you know, after what I like, I've experienced, you know, God's got me alive for some reason. I'm still having to do something for, you know, God. But

Scott Benner 28:31
is there any? I'm sorry, I'm picking through your life like this. But is there any guilt? Like because you were you were basically saved? Because you saw the experience of your brothers? And that I'm assuming motivated you to move forward? Do you ever you ever think well, is what happened to me first, maybe one of them would have been motivated to move forward? Or is that not something to think about?

Lou 28:56
I regret every day that that we didn't seek out help for them. It breaks my heart when I think about them, that we weren't knowledgeable enough to help them that we didn't reach

Scott Benner 29:19
out for help. Do you think you knew you needed it? No, no, you were doing what you were told. Right?

Lou 29:28
You know, just that stubbornness of you know I'm in charge and I'm and I'm not saying anything about being I think sometimes we get so busy in life, we forget what we're doing.

Scott Benner 29:42
Yeah. No, I agree. You and I really think about this very similarly. I carry some guilt, but for the people listening. So I I know I have this thing that helps people and then it feels like I'm supposed to find them and make sure they listen to it. And

Lou 30:01
thank God, you know, you're on a mission, you're actually on a mission and, and, you know, like I said, I found out about you through my daughter in law because she listens to you constantly. And she, you know, she reached out to after the Super Bowl to the to the receiver who has type one diabetes, and he did a podcast for my grandson and told him, you know, that he had diabetes in high school and, you know, to manage it, you know, and encouraged him to manage it encouraged him to go on.

Scott Benner 30:39
That's wonderful. This past Super Bowl or before? Yes, yeah,

Lou 30:43
this past Super Bowl. In fact, he contacted my grandson the day after the Super Bowl, I couldn't believe it. Oh, that's amazing. I just couldn't believe it. And so I think people with diabetes want to help other people. So they don't go through what? You know, like I tell my grandson. And he started to understand that now because he plays basketball in high school basketball. Yeah. Um, Daisy says, grandpa, my, my legs and feet feel like concrete. And, you know, we all know that experience when we're high. Yeah. You know, when when you're three or four or 500. You know, I've been so high at times that you know, I can hardly walk right?

Scott Benner 31:32
In so when you let me think we you had a pump before the tandem. What was your first pump? Medtronic, right? No, no, no, tandem is my first tandems your first pump Excuse me? That's right. I'm sorry. I'm confusing myself. With no no problem. When so when you get a pump is the transition. Is it difficult for you? Or did you find it? Relatively easy?

Lou 31:58
Very easy. I worried about it, and I shouldn't have. Okay, that training is pretty simple. It's pretty easy to manage. It just amazing. It's it's a miracle to me.

Scott Benner 32:21
I know. And so now you're What about a CGM? Did you get them at the same time? Did you get Dexcom and tandem at the same time? Or did you know I

Lou 32:30
got, I wanted the Dexcom first, so I could manage it. Before the Dexcom I had a libre. And that was great, too. I, you know, that was a great product. I was able to really monitor myself on my phone with the FreeStyle Libre. But then when I was going to the tandem, I had to switch over to the Dexcom. Because they they read each other.

Scott Benner 32:58
Right, right. Yeah, they talk to each other. And so you, right now your pump is is an algorithm. It's taking away and giving you insulin and you're basically telling it when you take carbs.

Lou 33:09
Correct? Yeah. And then of course, again, my my daughter in law, you know, she said up on my phone, the app, Calorie King. So, you know, I just open that up, or I say to my phone, Hey, Siri, how many carbs are in a tortilla? And, you know, I get the information that way. And again, so right now, in this day and age, there's so much technology around you that you can actually really help yourself. Yeah.

Scott Benner 33:41
It's, it's, and it's better right to do the work put in the effort you're gonna put effort in somewhere is what I always tell people, right? Like, might as well put it in up front and avoid because the back end efforts always, it's always cleaning up a dumpster fire or a health issue or something like that. You might as well do it first and save yourself the trouble. Correct? Yeah, you're gonna do it somewhere. So well,

Lou 34:06
you know, I'm pretty hard headed. And so it took me a lot of years to finally get to where I'm at. Again, I'm grateful for my life. I am shocked that I'm still alive after I've only I've only had to call an ambulance one time in the 40 years that I've had it. But for a low bouncer. Yeah, low blood sugar. Well,

Scott Benner 34:32
in fairness, was your blood sugar mostly high?

Lou 34:36
Yes, yeah. Yeah, a lot of most of my life. I've been high. I mean, not literally, but I mean, blood sugar wise.

Scott Benner 34:45
Louis, is there anything else you want to talk about today? You smoked a little weed?

Lou 34:51
No, not at all. But but, you know, when I'm talking high, I'm not talking 200 jumped out there. Yeah. 500.

Scott Benner 35:02
Right. Well, you have the mixture of not really understanding how to manage on top of difficult foods. Correct? Yeah. And that's going to drive you up like that. So was there? How long were you on the CGM before the pump?

Lou 35:26
I don't know, couple of years. Couple years.

Scott Benner 35:27
So did you start adjusting? Then did you start saying I don't think I'm using enough Basal insulin? Or? I think I'm not injecting enough at meals that?

Lou 35:36
Yes, yeah.

Scott Benner 35:39
Are those things I'm sorry to cut you off?

Lou 35:42
Probably in the last, you know, like I said, probably in the last five years, I've become very, very serious about managing because my grandkids are getting older, and I want to live to see them graduate from high school. And, you know, I just, I just want to see them grow. I've got five grandkids. Yeah. And they're all either in elementary or high school. And I want to manage this every day so that I can see them and continue loving them.

Scott Benner 36:14
How, how long ago, did your grandson get diagnosed, you know, a year ago, just a year, so. So five years ago, see, I'm going to tell you something, because I've spoken to I don't know, you're up to about 1000. I'm up to about 1000 people having this conversation with right. And most people, as adults, make a health change, for the love of something else. For a spouse or a child or a way of life where you'd be surprised how few people say, I wanted to take better care of myself. Like it's it's very interesting that people have such a hard time doing something for themselves. But when it's for someone else to see your grandchildren or something like that, then it's not hard at all, for some reason.

Lou 37:05
You're absolutely right. You know, I I want to live every day now. My son, my grandson is in a track meet Friday evening. And you know, I want to be there. Yeah. And I want to be feeling well, when I go to the track meet, I don't want to be my heart racing or my legs feeling like concrete, you know, I want to be a normal human being at a track me watching my grandson.

Scott Benner 37:30
That's a good message. That really is. Okay, so you get the Dexcom you make adjustments to your insulin, you start seeing how foods impact you more when you move to the pump is is the pump initially in your mind just to ignore like so you don't have to inject anymore or you have a mind on the algorithm and letting the the back do the work.

Lou 37:55
You know, the thing I liked the most about it is it does the math for you. Okay, it does all the math for you. And you just gotta you know, rely on it. And I'm relying on it now. And it's working. I'm anxious to see what my hemoglobin a one c is this next time around? You know, I used to run 11

Scott Benner 38:19
Wow. Yeah. For and what were you last time?

Lou 38:24
9.7 I

Scott Benner 38:25
believe. Okay, and you're shooting for lower and lower. You're trying to?

Lou 38:31
I'm hoping I'm hoping someday to get to like a 7.5. Wow.

Scott Benner 38:36
Let's listen. I bet you could have you made any adjustments to your the way you you know, you feel yourself with food? Or is that been the hardest thing?

Lou 38:48
Yeah, I've had to make adjustments. I don't need as much. I certainly monitor what I eat now. And I stay away from certain foods.

Scott Benner 39:03
Yeah, but

Lou 39:05
I just want I just have a hard time with pastas and pizza. And it just like I said, I can eat one or two pieces of large pizza and, um, 454 hours, right? Yeah,

Scott Benner 39:22
yeah. And do you think when you see a big number like that, do you think to put in more insulin or do you let it ride out?

Lou 39:30
No, I put in more insulin. And like I said, that's why I don't do that anymore. Because that's when I was chasing myself. Yeah. What I call chasing myself. I was always chasing myself. I was never ahead of the race.

Scott Benner 39:46
I think that one of the things that gets lost when people aren't given good education and don't understand how insulin works, is that I think it can feel like that what you're doing right now is for right now. Oh, but it's not right insulin now is for later. Right? Yeah. And it's, I've talked about it a number of different ways on here. But sometimes it's like a confusing like a time travel movie, like you don't know exactly where you are. There's something happened in this timeline, or there's something happened in this timeline. But when you start realizing that that's true, that the insulin is living on its own timeline, and the impact of the food is living on its own. And you need to artificially manipulate it so that they're doing their things at the same time. And that's all that Pre-Bolus thing is it's giving the insulin a chance to get working so that when the food hits you, they're both there. It's a fair fight at that

Lou 40:38
point. Correct? Correct. Yeah. I like where you put that. Yes,

Scott Benner 40:42
thank you. You figure that out on your own as well.

Lou 40:47
After 40, damn,

Scott Benner 40:49
Louie's, like I didn't give up but I figured it out. 40 years? Do you listen to the podcasts or you let your your daughter in law tell you stuff from it?

Lou 40:59
Once you start listening to it, I guarantee it.

Scott Benner 41:03
I have a series called diabetes pro tip I bet you might enjoy where we just it's it's very management based. But we also have a ton of conversations with people, all ages, like you just telling stories about about the things they've done, because I think that is also valuable for people. Oftentimes, I don't believe that people learn by being read, you know, read a bullet list of information, do this and this and this, I think you're gonna hear somebody else say it and think, hmm, I mean, that makes a lot of sense to me. You know, like, I can try, I can see how that fits into my life. Now I'm going to take a look at that. I want to bounce back a little bit though. You're on dialysis for those four years or so. Did you ever think you were getting a kidney?

Lou 41:53
I prayed for one. And I didn't ever think I was gonna get one. And by the grace of God, six years ago, on Easter Sunday, I get a call from Albuquerque, New Mexico. And they said, Actually, I got called three times. The first time. By the time I got to Albuquerque from Roswell, which is three hours. They found out that the individual had had hepatitis. So I lost that kidney. The second time. The doctor that was farming, the kidney had cut the ureter too short. So I didn't get that kidney. But on the third time, I got there and you know, thank God. Everything went well. And I had the kidney transplant. And, you know, I was very grateful for the family that gave their mother's kidney to me.

Scott Benner 42:50
Wow, that's wonderful. Yeah, that's really that's a selfless thing to do.

Lou 42:55
And I I want to take a moment to tell everybody to please be a donor. Please be a donor.

Scott Benner 43:03
Yeah. No, I mean, it's it. Look, I mean, look what had to happen. Three people who were donors till you get yours. Correct? Yeah. Because other things can happen. So you are on a cocktail of anti rejection medications now?

Lou 43:17
Yes, I am. I take quite a bit of medications in the morning. They're anti rejection. And thank goodness, oh, my gosh. My insurance covers. It's just, yeah, it's just

Scott Benner 43:34
the teachers. It's a miracle. It's the teachers union. Right. They set you up in retirement? Yes. Yes. Yeah. Wow. Do you have any other any side effects from the anti rejection meds?

Lou 43:52
Well, little bit of weight gain from the some of the medication that I take prednisone

Scott Benner 44:03
Yeah, that one, the steroids. Tough, right? Yes. And does it make you more insulin resistant? Do you feel well,

Lou 44:10
after, you know, you have to monitor it more. You know, there are some lot of medications that that you take that affect your insulin. So being conscious and aware of that.

Scott Benner 44:26
Do you feel I'm going to tell you a silly story. So I've got I'm not going to tell you the whole story, Louis because it's embarrassing, but I got bit by a bug. And I had a systemic reaction. And they put me on prednisone for like 10 days. And for and for 10 days. I felt like Superman. My back didn't hurt anymore. All my aches and pains are gone. Right. That's the truth. Yeah. Oh my goodness. Right. And do you have some of that benefit or does that go away after a while when you're on?

Lou 44:56
It goes away after a while but I know exactly what you're talking about. how well it makes you feel physically.

Scott Benner 45:03
15 years younger I felt 15 Years Younger for 10 days. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And then I went off of it. And three days later, I was like, Oh, my back hurts again. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, I wasn't sure if I want it. That's the question I had was that doesn't keep happening, because I didn't think it would. Eventually, it's gonna lose its impact, I would imagine. Right? It does. Yeah, he does. What do you do for those 10 days? A

Lou 45:30
lot, a lot of yard work? Well, I got a lot done.

Scott Benner 45:35
It's funny. Oh, my gosh. Okay, so I know. I mean, I so I want to ask about the about the surgery. So you, you know, you go and first of all, you must, it must be even hard to be hopeful. The third time driving to the hospital, but you get there. And actually things are working out for you. What's the surgery like? And what's the recovery like?

Lou 46:05
You know, the first day after the surgery was a little tough, because the doctor put it that the kidney hadn't woken up yet. And so it didn't start right away. So I laid in that bed and prayed and, and, you know, I was hoping that it would work. And by the second day, it started working. And it's been working ever since. So there wasn't a lot of pain to it. To be honest with you, when I think back now. It the recovery was really, really good. My sister Eileen, who is a nurse, and of course my wife who is a nurse, nurse me to help pretty quick. Last month that I was in recovery.

Scott Benner 46:59
I bet you didn't let you lay around too long. I haven't. Oh, God, I had a Why can't I think of the word, my appendix went bad on me. And I had it out. And the doctor told me, you know, the rest of bed for a week. And on the third day, my wife comes in, she opens up the shades and she's like, come on, we're gonna go outside and rake leaves. And I was I don't think I'm supposed to do that. Because you'll be alright, let's go. So it's out there like, Oh, God, this hurts. But she got me moving. And I'll tell you I wouldn't wait around for sure if she didn't do that. So

Lou 47:34
Gotcha. You know, what's also kind of funny is that a couple of days after the surgery, had this fantastic doctor in Albuquerque, just that he goes, Well, I hope you don't mind. He goes, you had a hernia. So while I was in there, I took care of your hernia. Pick it out.

Scott Benner 47:58
You should have told us that gave me a pancreas while you're in there.

Lou 48:02
Yeah, so I got a two for one yet. I got a kidney transplant and he removed the hernia. So you know, I thought that was kind of kind of a neat thing, like a coupon

Scott Benner 48:12
day. Yeah. That's excellent. Oh, my gosh, did they talk to you about a pancreas transplant at the same time or No,

Lou 48:23
no, no, they know, they have not. Okay. And I haven't, you know, my wife has brought that up several times. But right now I'm holding and I'm doing well. Yeah.

Scott Benner 48:39
Well, I mean, it goes without saying you're doing amazing. I know, honestly.

Lou 48:45
It's amazing. I tell my wife this daily. It's amazing. The human body, just the human body, and how we abuse it. You know, like I said, I don't know how many times I must have been four or 500. And the damage he was doing to my body, but the body is just amazing. I mean, there has to be a god.

Scott Benner 49:08
Well, if you put those pizza slices in the gas tank in your car, it would stop running. And somehow your body looks at that and says, Alright, I can't believe he did this, but I'll figure out a way to get through it and keep you going. Yeah, it is. Yeah, you know what I mean? And obviously, it takes a toll. But you're right. Like it's we eat things that we shouldn't be eating. And it just keeps going somehow. And that's is astonishing. It really is.

Lou 49:38
You know, I'm a lot better now regarding health wise because I don't have as much neuropathy as I used to, as you will experienced. I went through a period of time where my feet burned actually burned. And my fingertips have got burned? I don't have that anymore. Yeah, so I know I'm in, I'm in so much better shape than I was in previous years. Yeah. Because I just don't have the neuropathy that I, that I used to have

Scott Benner 50:15
right now. I mean, I hear that story from people all the time, especially ones who are running around like you are with an 11, a one C, sometimes when they better their, their agency, their variability, get their blood sugar's down, find some stability, some of that stuff does go away. And or at least it slows it I've had people tell me like that their eyesight was deteriorating, and it's gotten better, or it held where it was and didn't continue to get worse, like you, you are doing a, you know, you're not asking as much of your body and you're slowing down that the impact that those blood sugars are having.

Lou 50:52
You know, when I think back back about one of my brothers, Thomas, you know, he lost a toe. It really affected his eyes, he lost an eye. And he really suffered. I mean, he really, really suffered.

Scott Benner 51:10
Were you close to them as adults? Do you know? Was he just not taking insulin at all? Or?

Lou 51:16
Again, I think it was the diet. Lots and lots of high carb, Mexican food. Yeah. And, and the bad part about it is we love it. You know, and so. And I just think he was a banker, a very successful banker, and I think he was just so busy. He didn't take care of himself. He just thought every day get up and go to work. He was more interested in working in stead of management.

Scott Benner 51:51
Yeah, well, listen, he probably had exactly what you had when that doctor said, You're gonna go on dialysis. You're like, now I'll be okay. I don't need that. Right. Yeah, you know, I'll be okay. I'll get to it. You know, it makes me wonder while you're talking, because you're so thoughtful about about the reasons why things happen. It makes me wonder when people get on listen to this, are we going to send more people to lunch to buy tortillas or more people to lunch to get something healthy? To eat? I want them so yeah, I wonder if I wonder if it it's interesting. How people's minds work, you know, like, especially in the face of it like this, like you mentioned earlier, just knowing like, I'm doing something right now it is killing me. And you're like, I'm gonna do it anyway.

Lou 52:38
Yeah. And, you know, you, I can't fault people. You know, I'm a pretty conservative person. You know, so I can't sit here and say, God, why are those people doing drugs? I mean, when, when I myself, you know, the foods that I eat are my drugs. Sure. And the way I have to look at it.

Scott Benner 53:03
Yeah, I mean, I think it's, you know, I was just having this conversation with somebody, and I think their episode will come out before yours. But it's, it's the dopamine, that that like, you eat that food and your and your body. Yes, your brain gets happy. And then it just doesn't last very long. And you know, how do you make it happy again, you, you feed it again, the sugar and the fat and the dopamine comes? And, and to your point, some people get that from pills. Some people get that from drugs, some people get it from risky behavior, you know, like that kind of stuff. You you got it from food.

Lou 53:40
You know, I liked what you put that day, because that's exactly it's a vicious cycle. You know, and you have to decide, you have to substitute one desire for for another, or you have to just not yet avoid it.

Scott Benner 53:57
Yeah. Listen to people who exercise a lot. That's where they get it from. They get like an endorphin rush from exercise. And they, they, they make it so that being healthy is a value to them. So that's the thing, they drive happiness, they derive happiness from like, they want to be healthy. So when they are healthy or fit or working out, they're happy about that you're happy because you were eating foods that you remember from your, from your childhood, and probably built pictures in your mind of nine kids sitting around and big meals and fun and stuff like that. It's just what happens. Like everybody gets a thing that shifting from one of those to another proves to be difficult for people. You know, and that's all it's all very understandable. It's just it's it's just the truth. That's all

Lou 54:50
right, you know? That's just it. Basically, you just have to fight that battle every day. Yep.

Scott Benner 54:58
Find something else to be happy about. All right, yeah. Other than he has that now dammit, Louis, I'm gonna end up talking to you if I don't stop talking about starting to think about it, maybe I could like make some chicken. I have rice in the fridge, I could throw together with it. You said potatoes. That sounds like a great idea. I won't, don't worry, I'm gonna go downstairs and eat something that keeps my old ass alive a little longer. So got you.

Lou 55:24
Yeah. And, you know, and over the years, you learn the game. You know, it may say sugar free, but he's got fructose in it. So they get away with it by saying, oh, yeah, that's a sugar free product. But they don't tell you that fructose is gonna kill you. If you eat it.

Scott Benner 55:41
Yeah, we use the bunch of artists such as artificial sweeteners, or there's so much fat in it. And you know, and by the way, when you eat something that they say is fat free. i My example is always like shaved ice, you know, like water ice or something like that. And the sciences, oh, it's fat free. But the minute you eat it, your body takes that glucose and turns it into fat and stores it as fat. So, you know, you get away with it for five seconds. But then something happens on the other side you need. Listen, the truth is it's clean food, you need to eat things that you look at and know what they are. This is a piece of chicken. I know what that is. This is a broccoli. head of broccoli. I know what that is. You start, you know, I don't know how they make pizza dough for Domino's Pizza. I, you know, I don't know what's in it. And you don't either, you know. And at least if you made that at home, you took a little. I mean, I do it here once in a while. I'm making Neapolitan pizza here, but I see it it's salt and flour and water. That's what the just that, you know, right. But even storebought tortillas are probably

Lou 56:51
Oh, yeah, yeah.

Scott Benner 56:53
I'm assuming there's some kills in there. Yeah,

Lou 56:55
chemicals. Yeah. Yeah,

Scott Benner 56:56
I hear you. Okay, so that the surgery wasn't too much trouble. And you haven't had to do dialysis. I'm assuming that dialysis was the was a heavy left, right. There's a long four years.

Lou 57:12
That was tough. It was tough. You know, you have to really, really, I went to see my nephew in Boston. And to this day, he tells me, he goes, I don't know how you did it. But you have to plan and ship the solution to the motel you're going to be in and hopefully when they get there that you know it's there. And then the machine that you carry at an airport, it's a nightmare, because they all want to open it up and touch it and see what's going on. You have to tell them Hey, that's my kidney. Don't touch that. Well, I've got gloves on. I said, Yeah, but you've touched 100 things before you're touching my machine. And so it always be an argument at an airport.

Scott Benner 57:55
Right? You're, you're safe with the gloves on my machines not.

Lou 57:59
Right. You know, and so it was a nightmare. Don't carry all that equipment around and travel. You know, but you do it. You do it? And but thank God, I don't do it anymore. I mean, I just thank God every day that I don't do that anymore.

Scott Benner 58:15
Ya know, I It's a mindset to get you through something like that. But when you don't see a certain end date to it. It's not like somebody said to you, Hey, you gotta go on dialysis. But don't worry. 17 months from now, there'll be a kidney here. You were just right, one day at a time hoping somebody and even is that not strange, hoping that someone passes away so that you can get a kidney?

Lou 58:38
I know in that in that said, yeah. Just you know, and I know people now that had been waiting for years for kidney, you know, and they're still on dialysis.

How I thought I thought that peritoneal dialysis was a lot easier than going into the, I used to call it the chamber.

My brothers did dialysis. Both of them. One brother was a teacher also. And he would go at five in the morning, Monday, Wednesday and Friday. And he'd go at five in the morning and he'd be there for three or four hours. And his planning period was first period. So it's principle worked with him. I don't know how he did it. Because, you know, sometimes it's pretty exhausting. When you're on dialysis. The thing that really affected me when I was on dialysis with the cramps, I used to have unbelievable cramps. I've never had one sense. But when I was on dialysis, the cramps alone was just I had one so bad I just cried one time I just couldn't take the pain anymore.

Scott Benner 59:57
debilitated the kids? No Did they The people you worked with now, some of them did

Lou 1:00:03
have tell you a quick story. We used to have a back to school dance every year. And I had hired two new teachers, two young ladies. And one of the ladies says, we're still having to go back to school dance. And I said, Yeah, we are. I said, but I'll be here. I said, until nine o'clock, and then I gotta go hook up. And I happened to look over it was two young teachers. They're looking at each other. Like, what's he talking about? You know, I gotta go hook up. The other teachers knew what I was talking about. Yeah. So one of the teachers turned over, you know, turned to them and said, he's on dialysis. He's got to hook up to a machine. That was kind of a big laughs

Scott Benner 1:00:48
They thought you had a lady waiting? That's why I guess no. Well, yeah, do you got your wife at home?

Lou 1:00:56
But you know, and I admired, uh, you know, people that are on peritoneal, I knew a coach, that he'd be on the school bus with the kids, and he'd be doing peritoneal dialysis, you'd have the bag up on a title to a poll, and he'd be hooked up on a way to gain during dialysis. So now, so if you want to live, you do it. Yeah. But it's not a good way to live like that. So that's why we go back to management, you know, you know, I don't want to irritate my grandson. But a lot of times I tell him, I say dizzy. And I don't want to scare him. But I said, you don't want to end up like this, you know, so take care of yourself. Take it serious

Scott Benner 1:01:45
right. Now. I was gonna try to get back to that thought. But you did it very well. And I actually think that's a good place to stop. Because I, I think I'd like that to be what people remember, after listening to you, you have a great story. And your outlook is amazing in the way you made it through. And had to figure out so many things for yourself as time went on. It's it's very, it's laudable that you figured it out. I hope you know that it's not, you know, that. It's not something everybody would have gotten done. Like, you really did fight through something, you know? Well, but we got Yeah, but we don't want people needing to fight through it. So. Right, exactly. Yeah. You don't want to get to this point. Like, let's say it would be nice to know, you're this tough, but let's not have to prove it. Anybody, you know, yeah. Would have been would have been better to use that time and effort on something else. But that that image of you should shipping the solution to a motel. So you could go visit somebody? That was really powerful. But when you don't when you were talking about that, I thought my gosh, I never thought about that. You know, that's really something. Wow. Is there anything I didn't ask you that you think I should have?

Lou 1:03:01
No, I think we've covered almost everything. I told my life

Scott Benner 1:03:05
story here. Yeah, it was wonderful. I can't wait for people to hear it.

Lou 1:03:09
I hope it helps somebody and certainly anybody that ever wants to call me or talk to me, you can give them you know that information. And I'll talk to anybody about diabetes, because and that may be why I'm still alive. God wants me to, to help people.

Scott Benner 1:03:30
Well, I have a Facebook group, I'm assuming your daughter in law knows about that is it's got like 35,000 people on it. So when I put your episode up, I'll make a post in there as well. And if people want to ask you questions they can ask right there. Sure. Yeah, I would be. I'd be happy to do that. Okay. Wow. Well, I appreciate you doing this with me. Thank you very much.

Lou 1:03:55
Well, I've really enjoyed it. And I admire what you're doing. I just honestly admire what you're doing. Because as I started this podcast, I told you, we lacked knowledge in our family. And that's what you're doing. You're providing knowledge for people like my family, to better manage? Well,

Scott Benner 1:04:21
I appreciate you saying that. It's my pleasure. I you know, in full transparency, I started figuring these things out for my daughter. And I started to write online about it years ago, because I was trying to drive money to research. And then I noticed one day that the way I talked about insulin, people seemed to resonate with it. And it was working for my daughter and I thought I bet you could work for other people to this way. And so it just kept sharing it and it kept growing and, and I can't tell you how I got a note from a lady last night about her child's diagnosis day and and how they found the podcast in the hospital that night, and then had shared what happened to them going forward and how well they were doing. And it caught me at the end of the day, I was reading it in bed, and I, my wife's like, what's going on? And she goes, Oh, are you going to cry? And I said, I think so. Yeah, I was just so happy for that little girl and her family. And, and, and there's that part where you can't believe that something you did or said, found a stranger and help them you know, I mean, think about it, you're, you're being helped. Because, I mean, for a number of different reasons, but specific to the podcast, your, you know, your son and his wife have a child with type one. And they start learning about it for him, and then turn to you and say, hey, you know, we're learning about a lot of these things, I think that might help you as well. And he did it. You know, like I said,

Lou 1:05:52
my, my, my daughter in law, for many reasons, is, is a saint to our family.

Scott Benner 1:05:58
You know what I wanted to ask you, they didn't how's your heart? Good. And that's crazy, right? The kidneys went, but your sharpest attack and your heart is okay. And it's interesting, right? That it didn't.

Lou 1:06:11
You know, I've been very, very fortunate. I remember a doctor telling me because I had to take a complete, complete physical everything before the transplant. And I remember the doctor told me, he said, Well, you got a heart like a horse.

Scott Benner 1:06:30
Good for you. That's amazing. It just hit me now. Because, I mean, you don't know this. But my, my my best friend growing up, and I'm old now to I'm 51. But But growing up when I was 18, my best friend got type one diabetes, he's no longer with us. He was on dialysis at the end of his life, and had a massive heart attack a number of years into it. And that's what made me like, I thought that was so interesting that your kidneys had had had the issue, but the rest of you seems okay.

Lou 1:07:02
It's really Yeah. Yeah. Unfortunate. In that aspect.

Scott Benner 1:07:07
Yeah. I mean, and just talking to you, I know that sucks to hear. Because when you're you don't think nobody thinks themselves as their age. But I mean, you're 70 and you and I are talking. There's no like, there's no, you're not pausing. You're not like, you know what I mean? Like you're you're, you know, I'm saying like you're you're it's and with all that high blood sugar is what I mean, like, yeah, age plus high blood sugar. And you don't have a deficit like that at all.

Lou 1:07:33
Thank God. Yeah, no kidding. Well, you know, I did a tour in the Marine Corps. So I think I attributed to that.

Scott Benner 1:07:39
You just don't don't want to give up. Right? Right. Yeah. Did you did you? Were you in the Marines during a conflict or

Lou 1:07:47
college during the Vietnam era? I served in the Philippines. No kidding. Yeah. Marine barracks. Subic Bay.

Scott Benner 1:07:55
How old were you when you got shipped there?

Lou 1:07:58
I was 18.

Scott Benner 1:07:59
Wow. Do you drafted or did you enlist?

Lou 1:08:02
Yeah. That was the last draft 1971 I was the very last draft.

Scott Benner 1:08:06
Louis that's the year I was born. 71. Really? Yeah. 71 Oh, ironic. No, that's crazy. How long were you there? Two years. Wow. That's a long time. Yeah. Did you know

Lou 1:08:20
it was a great tour. I was there with a detachment. In March of 73. I got to go with a detachment where the prisoner of war from Vietnam flew into Clark Air Force Base in the Philippines. And so I was there. And McCain was the third one off the plane. Alvarez was the very first one off the plane. It was it was quite a sight. It was just quite a sight when the POS POWs landed in Clark Air Force Base in the Philippines.

Scott Benner 1:08:57
Louis, you were there when John McCain was returned? Yes, no kidding. Oh, that's astonishing. Yeah, he was beat up ah, bad.

Lou 1:09:08
You know, I wasn't as close to the plane as I wanted to be because I was part of this group of Marines. But it was quite a day quite a day for me that feel

Scott Benner 1:09:19
their return feel like the return of hope, like the end of something the beginning of something new How would you describe why it was such a big day

Lou 1:09:35
just proud that they had survived. Just Just proud that an American survived that that torture and that imprisonment. You know, so he would just, I think the pride of very servicemen

Scott Benner 1:09:57
to leave you with the feeling that anything was possible. You can do anything?

Lou 1:10:01
Oh, yeah, I think could survive that. My gosh, you know, you could do anything.

Scott Benner 1:10:05
It makes me it makes me wonder how much of you being there that day has to do with how hard you're fighting with the diabetes and everything? You know what I mean?

Lou 1:10:18
Kelly, can you imagine what they went through? No, just, you know, just anyway,

Scott Benner 1:10:24
ya know, it's hard to talk about and even harder when you think back to the moment when they tried to let him go. And he said no, right, right. Yeah, yeah. He,

Lou 1:10:34
he stayed. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:10:36
What's the story there? They found out his father was a high ranking official. So they offered to let him go. And he stayed behind with the men he was serving with instead. Is that right?

Lou 1:10:47
I believe so. I don't know, all the details involved with him, with him being released. But the important thing is, is he chose to stay and continue.

Scott Benner 1:10:59
That's absolutely. I mean, again, I don't know. It takes quite a person to make a decision like that. So obviously, he was doing it for other people as well. And, and we talked about that earlier, right. can do things you can do a lot when you're doing it for somebody else. So yeah, it's true. Yeah, Louis, thank you so much. I really I can't thank you enough for doing that. Thank you. It's my pleasure.

Lou 1:11:24
This has been great therapy for me. Thank you.

Scott Benner 1:11:26
Oh, good. I should I should take this act on the road, just sit in diners and talk to people and it's not a bad idea. Maybe I'll get a microphone and just start going into diners and asking people questions. Hopefully, it'll be fun. Yeah, no one's steal my idea.

Lou 1:11:38
Hey, well, listen. God bless you. Oh, thank you. I appreciate it via via conduce. I don't know what that means. Via go corn with yours. God. Thank you. Nice condors.

Scott Benner 1:11:57
I really I appreciate the I appreciate the good thoughts. I really do. I, I I'm happy to be making this podcast. I'm gonna keep doing it. So don't worry about that. I don't want to be listening to you. I appreciate it. Hold on one second for me. Okay. All right.

Unknown Speaker 1:12:11
All right.

Scott Benner 1:12:16
Everyone calls them big blue. And I want to thank him very much for coming on the show and sharing such a fantastic story. A huge thank you to one of today's sponsors, G voc glucagon, find out more about Chivo Capo pen at G Vogue glucagon.com forward slash juicebox you spell that GVOKEGLUC AG o n.com. Forward slash juice box. Also want to thank Omni pod makers of the Omni pod five and Omni pod dash Omni pod.com forward slash juice box when you click on my links, you're supporting the show keeping it free and plentiful. Thank you very much. I hope you enjoyed the show today. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast