#601 Gina Made Me Loop

December 27, 2021Scott Benner

Gina dared me to Loop and she has a child living with type 1 diabetes.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends. Jeez. Try that again. Hello friends, and welcome to episode 601 of the Juicebox Podcast

today on the show I'm going to be speaking with Gina and Gina made me loop. I think that's the episode title Gina made me loop. Yeah, that's what I'm gonna go with. Anyway, my daughter uses a do it yourself algorithm called loop. It is not from any company, it's available on the internet. And a long time ago Now Gina pretty much dared me to try it. And that's the story you're going to hear today plus other conversation. Please remember while you're listening that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan, or becoming bold with insulin. Don't forget to head over to t one D exchange.org. Forward slash juice box and fill out the survey. If you're a US resident who has type one diabetes or care for someone with type one, this survey will take you less than 10 minutes. It's completely HIPAA compliant, absolutely anonymous, and supports people living with type one diabetes, as well as the Juicebox Podcast.

This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the Dexcom G six continuous glucose monitor, learn more and get started today@dexcom.com forward slash juice box. The Dexcom G six continuous glucose monitor is at the heart of how my daughter and I make decisions about her type one diabetes, and I think it would help you as well. Imagine being able to see not only the speed and direction but the number of a blood sugar 127 heading up. That's amazing. 127 heading up three points per minute. Even better information, you're seeing the number, the speed, and the direction. And if you want, you can share that information with up to 10 followers on Android or iPhone phones. So there's a share and follow feature as well. You probably should head over to dexcom.com Ford slash juice box to learn more. The data that the Dexcom G six provides is in valuable, irreplaceable and absolutely tingling tinggly Making you make the little tingle feelings when you think about it. I'm saying you get excited. You're like ooh, I can see which way the blood sugar is going. I know what to do now with food, with exercise with insulin. make an informed choice. dexcom.com forward slash juicebox

Gina 3:01
Hi, this is Gina from Kansas City.

Scott Benner 3:05
Gina from Kansas City. Excellent. Gina. We've met each other one day. Right? One time at the Kansas City JDRF extravaganza

Gina 3:16
that's right at the summit or whatever they call it here. Whatever they JDRF

Scott Benner 3:22
whatever they call it. Yeah, I don't think they're ever gonna call it anything ever again. But yeah, that one was a summit. What do you remember about that day?

Gina 3:35
Um, I was there volunteering for Nightscout representing the Nightscout organization. And we we have talked a few times before that. So I knew you were going to be there. And it was kind of, you know, fun to get to meet you in person.

Scott Benner 3:53
It's like a celebrities coming almost a little bit like, like, but, but like somebody in like a Mickey Mouse costume. Kind of where you're like, this is fun, but not that great.

Gina 4:08
No, it was a good day. It was fun. And it was interesting, too. I haven't done a lot with JDRF. And so it was fun to just kind of see the whole type of forum thing come together.

Scott Benner 4:22
Yes. I get a lot of hard boiled eggs that day. I will never explain why. That's all.

Gina 4:28
Yeah, I don't even want to hide. Yeah,

Scott Benner 4:30
I won't tell you why don't worry. I'm just I just wanted to bring it up. That's all. What I so what I remember about the day was that you and I have had obviously spoken previously. And I'm just getting to meet you and I thought it was really cool that you were there trying to just help with you know people to understand Nightscout I thought that was a really big deal. I want you to know that I still fundamentally don't understand it. That is not your fault at all. Right now Ardens Nightscout frequently locks me out and I have to put a password back in to get back in people tell me there's a way to fix that. But then it seems to involve coding and then I'm done. So,

Gina 5:09
right. I don't really Yeah. I don't want to misrepresent myself as someone who is the tech guru of any kind. And I had nothing to do with Nightscout being developed. I am just a and or looped, or any of the other. No, no, we're just they're parts of that community.

Scott Benner 5:28
You're spreading the word. Right?

Gina 5:30
Right. And I'm truly an end user who only follows instructions, like a cookbook recipe and you get me outside of that realm. And I'm, I'm lost pretty quickly, but I know who to ask. So that's always been my way to encourage people is to be like, well, I know who we can ask. So let's go ask.

Scott Benner 5:49
That's why I found it to be really nice, because you really, were just volunteering your time just trying to get the word out about something. That's really cool. Are you talking with your hands a lot? If you are, please stop, like touching it.

Gina 5:59
Okay. Yeah, I'm Italian, and we talk with our hands, so I'm gonna have to sit on them or something. Yeah.

Scott Benner 6:05
So far, I I'm pretty sure that I could identify seven of the things on the table in front of you just by how they say.

Gina 6:14
Awesome. Makes me feel so much more comfortable than I already.

Scott Benner 6:20
Are you nervous to do this?

Gina 6:22
Um, maybe yeah, I didn't. I didn't know that I was, but apparently I might be. And I'm just a fidget. By nature. So holding still is hard.

Scott Benner 6:33
Alright, well, you can move your hands as much as you want. Just trying to tap the table or anything that makes noise. Okay. All right. So if you're just flailing about wildly Fine with me if you don't hit the headphones or the table.

Gina 6:44
Okay, very good.

Scott Benner 6:46
So, but you have probably been indirectly mentioned in the podcast more than anyone else. Are you aware of that? It's never by name. You're always what? The person who made me try lube?

Gina 7:00
Yes, yes. You might have mentioned my name one time, right. I find it more fun

Scott Benner 7:06
to set you up as a superhero supervillain type situation.

Gina 7:11
I did double dog dare you. You did.

Scott Benner 7:13
And so at that point, did we know each other at all? We didn't.

Gina 7:18
I had been, I would send you a message every once in a while about because I had been listening to the podcasts all along as well. And so I would kind of just comment or whatever, nothing major. And then loop became available on Omni pod, I want to say was like, what has it been two years and the spring? And that is when I reached out and said, Hey, Scott, you ready to do this? Are you ready to get a little more sleep, I think is what I might have said,

Scott Benner 7:54
what made you ask me?

Gina 7:58
Because you? Well, a couple things. First of all, I wanted to always find a way to give back to this community, the DIY community, because they're so amazing. And so many people have spent so many hours of their own volunteer time breaking this thing down and then making it available to all of us. And I because I'm not tech oriented, I knew that I could never contribute in that way. So it had occurred to me that if I could get you to talk about it on the podcast, that way more people that I could ever reach with our little local community builds would be made aware of it. And so plus, it sounded like you were working on Arden stuff long enough that I could appreciate as a parent that you probably weren't getting as much sleep as you would like, just like the rest of us.

Scott Benner 8:49
Yeah, sleep is. Yeah, much more plentiful. With with an algorithm, sleep is much more plentiful. It really is. I was saying to somebody the other day that I don't think Well, that's the wrong phrasing. It would be hard to imagine a scenario overnight where the loop couldn't at least stop Arden by the time she was 50. And right, and that's, you know, right cousin. I'm not trying to say that happens every night. I'm trying to say if her blood sugar is trying to go down overnight, it's not some like crazy. Like, we used way too much insulin scenario or something like that. That, you know if she's drifting, even when Yes, even when it has trouble. She doesn't usually get below 50. Which I agree

Gina 9:29
yeah, which is if your settings are anywhere near where they should be. Yeah, it's gonna. It's gonna stop you, for sure.

Scott Benner 9:38
It's pretty cool. Yes, it's the part of the episode where I remind people that loop is a do it yourself algorithm that's not from any company has not been passed through the FDA in any way. It's just a robot of great people working on coding and this thing works really, really well. Somebody had to hack into On the pod to make it work, right? That was a yes. thing. And, and yeah, we do use it. And it's pretty amazing. Now, having said that, I do wonder how long it's going to be available? Do you ever think about that?

Gina 10:17
I do every day. Not every day. But yeah, regularly. I think that this community is, I don't even know the right word to use, but they, the people that are involved are and it's it's different people kind of all the time that are chiming in and adding their own piece to all this. They're so driven, that I don't know that any commercial, the commercial options as they do come available, will attract people for sure. Because they'll just be kind of simpler, you'll have that, you know, warranty type thing available. And that will call to a lot of the non tech people, but there are going to be those who are always just will, you know, needing to push the envelope. They want things the way they want them. And I'm not sure but, you know, the FDA approval process will move along anywhere near fast enough. So I'm hoping to cling to their coattails as long as I know. So if I really appreciate all the features, yeah. Oh, no,

Scott Benner 11:21
I was I'm sorry. I didn't mean to step on you. But it's interesting, the way you took the the the question, because I think the people are amazing. And the way it morphs and people come in and out of it. That's fantastic. I don't imagine that would ever stop. I just look at a company using Omni pod as an example. And I think How long do I expect them to make three different versions of their insulin pump? Right? Right. If one of them's going to go by the wayside? Isn't it going to be the oldest one? Like they're not going to stop making Dash? And they're not going to stop making Omnipod? Five, when it comes out? Right? But like, is it? I don't know the company. But is it reasonable for them to make three of these like, like, if I made a Nissan Altima, and you know, one of the ultimas had, I don't know, some partial self driving feature, and one of the Ultimates didn't, and one of the Ultimates had a third thing like how long before I was just like, whoa, you know, let's move people to the more advanced features, and making the i That's the thing that concerns me more than anything, it's like, are the the accessibility of the pump going to go away? At some point?

Gina 12:29
I do. I do agree that it could happen. And in that case, yeah, we'd have to make a decision. And our house, I do still hold. You know, we started back. Prior to Omni loop. We did the Medtronic, the old Medtronic pumps, and I have not sent my old pump off. For my son, he would really be unhappy to go back to a tube pump, I do believe but we would always have that option, I guess, as well. But yeah, I am hoping that it will all coincide nicely with a really nice upgrade to the Omnipod. What are they calling it horizon or five, five, that we can you know, one, one, and if they do, and we use all the pods that I've hoarded, that hoarded a little pile. There might be a small pile building up. And so we'll get through that. And then we'll go from there. Right. And by then he might be old enough to voice an opinion on things and tell me he's done with me managing him anyway. And then maybe some of those features wouldn't be as important. But being able to monitor him, we have some ability to do remote overrides, as you know. And he and just using the same phone, you know, he has, he carries one phone that he uses for everything and unlike or, you know, much like every other young preteen in America, he's, you know, he he has more buy in to use the phone that he has with him. Anyway.

Scott Benner 14:14
He's got it. Yeah, well, alright, I don't I obviously have no idea what's gonna happen. I'm just, it's just like, it doesn't make sense to me, just from a purely business scenario that they would keep making. Like it would be like if Dexcom still made the Dexcom four and the five and the six and then they're gonna make this like at some point, things, like they start making older stuff. And that's right. And then that's to me, where, where that where you'd have an issue and how many people? I mean, honestly, how many people really use loop?

Gina 14:45
Yeah, it's a fraction. It's a it's a tiny fraction compared to everything else. And I even think that there will be people that will be happy to, you know, move quickly into the commercial versions of things. as they become available, and so, we in our house will kind of take that case by case, I suppose and just sort of ride the wave as it goes, because, you know, that's a lot of unknown and we figure it out.

Scott Benner 15:15
We use the auto Bolus version of loop. It's like legit, you know, like rd rd took an LSAT this morning. And overnight, I think I don't know what happened like she was going to sleep. And her blood sugar got a little low we Bolus for a snack that she didn't finish. So she has some juice, then I think she popped up and everybody was asleep and no one noticed. So the loop like smashed it back down. It took a number of hours, but she went to 180. And it got her back to like 140 By the time she woke up at six o'clock. And then we started to work on bringing it down as she woke up, but it kind of wasn't budging. And so I didn't have a lot of time. As she was going out the door. I was like look, I don't like you got to go, this thing's a time situation. So I just set it override for like, I forget, like 150% for a couple of hours. And then two hours into the test. When the override ended, her blood sugar was still like more like 110 ish. And so I just jacked her Basal up remotely from my Nightscout. And so I basically did a 20 minute Basal increase. But it like I forget what I did like five units an hour. So she'd get like a couple of units and just 20 minutes. I basically said like, you know, I mean, like I set like a little extended Bolus through the Basal feature, like I pushed more and more and everything, like I did that remotely while she was taking her SAP. That's not going to exist with commercial stuff, at least in the beginning, if ever. And just the idea of being able to say, for whatever reason today more power. Like I know, you know what I mean? I know this amount. Yeah, it works. But right now, just whatever you do magic algorithm, do it. 50% more strong, please. Thank you. And you know, that stuff isn't going to exist. But I'm having said that. I'm really excited to get on the pod five and see what I can make it do. Right, right. That's what it will be. Yeah, that's my thought

Gina 17:18
for sure. And, you know, I say an algorithm. I'm a CGM, um whatever kind that you have, is better than no algorithm. And certainly, you know, CGM always greater than no CGM, in my humble opinion. But there's, you just got to have that data coming in. I, I know people do it the other way. And I am amazed by then and truly, you know, mad respect on it. But the idea that you'd give up, you wouldn't have 288 data points a day, you'd have 10 or 20, or something. I don't I don't even know what how that all works. It overwhelmed me to talk about it. We got on CGM pretty early Dexcom. Probably not even six weeks after diagnosis. So

Scott Benner 18:05
yeah, I think before before like to put it into perspective for people who've used the CGM for a long time or have only ever used it. The before there was the CGM, my whole life felt like the two hour warmup period on the G sex, right? Like you just sort of like, I'll set a timer, I'll test here, like it. And that was if you were trying to be like cautious with blood sugars and keep them in a range. Otherwise, most people just were like, Listen, I'm going to test I'll count my carbs are Bolus and three hours now test again, if I'm high, I'll give myself more insulin. And if I'm low, I'll eat something. And that was literally how people took care of themselves. And that was a person doing a really good job taking care of themselves. Before, right, you know what I mean? So this the technology's amazing. Now, the other thing I want to say is that, I also think this stuff will well, it has the opportunity to move more quickly now. But it's going to be up to the companies and whether or not they're willing to continue to put someone in charge of fine tuning. You know what I mean? Like there's not going to throw it out and go, Okay, well, that's our algorithm. We'll see in five years when we try another one. Like that's right. That's my hope. And I have to tell you that behind the scenes everywhere that I have the ability to say something I am very forceful is the wrong word. But I'm, I make sure to tell people that that's the key. Right? Like I always say in a meeting, I always go look, I don't know who Ivan is, but someone should hire him. Right. And I don't know Ivan is by the way, but someone should hire him.

Gina 19:47
I do agree and and that did happen with pee and who really, you know, developed the Reilly link and then Katie De Simone, they all went to work for tide pool and I'm hoping that okay, and I don't know I'm not the, I'm not the guru on this stuff for sure. But you know, with Tide Pool, which is a nonprofit, driving a lot of, you know, this kind of data collection and pushing the envelope on things and moving towards the interoperative operability of all the devices where they will standardize and be able to, you know, in theory, choose your own pump, choose your own CGM in the future and then choose your own algorithm in the future. I mean, they are headed that way. I'm, I can't, I don't, I can't speak to it enough to make it a given a real, you know, perspective on it. But I do know that that is all occurring. And the conversations with the FDA have somehow opened up more through that channel. And, and I'm hoping that that is where, you know, we're all going to find the sweet spot for how we do diabetes at our own, you know, houses because everybody does it differently. And so, to me, that's, that's the end goal. And that would keep things moving faster, forward faster.

Scott Benner 21:09
Yeah, I prefer a stainless steel pan to fry my eggs. And and some people like the ones that are coated with the nonstick stuff, we should get the Peck and I actually I have somebody coming on from tide pool, I think, on my schedule, you should see my schedule, it is just, it's insane. I don't have an open recording day until January.

Gina 21:35
Wow, Dr. should feel very amazed that I got on schedule after

Scott Benner 21:40
I had to double you up to make it work. And now I'm like, I have this like, high minded idea that I'm going to open up my, my schedule real quick and find the person's name. And now I realized that was stupid, like, I'm looking at all these names. Oh, my God. But yeah, I have somebody coming on. To talk about it at some point, I just think I know, you have to have like kind of a long view of this stuff, which sucks if you've got loop, because you know, the immediacy of a small group of dedicated people making a fix or a change. You know, like, they'll they'll I forget what what a good example is, but there was a problem was something and like four days later, they have it figured out and then they fix it and they upload it and it's done. You're just like, wow, that was cool. You know what I mean? Whereas when I write to a company, it's like, alright, we found a problem. We know, we had a meeting,

Gina 22:38
figured out what the problem was another meeting in a month, we'll,

Scott Benner 22:41
we'll get together again and see how this went. And then later, we'll probably test it. And if that works great, and then we'll make double extra double shore before we go to the FDA. And then six months after they get it there'll be like that fixes, okay. And then you know, that's just how the world works. So for people who are accustomed to lube, it's it's, you know, saying you have to have a long view of it is probably frustrating. But there's a bigger picture, right? And the bigger picture is, like no lie loopholes. Ardens a one C and the fives like no problem, I used to put a lot of work into making that happen. And now it's much less work, especially overnight during the day, still not so there's still stuff to do. But but the point is, is that it's very customizable. And I can in six seconds, say Oh, Arden's getting your period, turn this, this way, turn that that way, and make this target this and boom, we're right back at it again. It's like not a problem. Right? I am nervous to see how the other ones work. Because you got to think they're not going to be as customizable. Although, you know, what I always pitched when I'm talking to Omnipod. I always tell them about this is gonna sound strange for a minute, but Adobe Elements is okay. Is it just a, you know, it's a thing you can manipulate pictures with and stuff like that, right? And when you open it, there are tabs across the top, and I forget exactly what they say. But it's basically beginner, intermediate, and Pro. And right. And when you click on the tabs, you get more function. And I'm like, That's what an algorithm should have. And you can complete trainings online, and when you complete the training online, then it unlocks the next tab. Like you know what I mean, and then that way, yeah, he has an option to do it. I think that's an amazing idea. Nobody listens to me, but

Gina 24:38
Well, I do know and I know even less about the the Android APS system than I do about loop. And I've never attempted to use it all but I believe that in that space, the end there's a lot of European and the kind of international crowd that is more that uses that algorithm and that that technology base. And I really am speaking out of my zone here completely, but I believe that they have tests and quizzes and things along the way they make you sort of follow a path. And I'm probably underselling that or saying it all wrong, but I think that there is some of that, in that space. And, and I think that's great. Because you do have to use loop. Or, you know, these algorithms, you need to learn them, and which is why I was not content to sit and wait until someone came out with one.

Scott Benner 25:30
Yeah, if you're, listen, if you're listening, right now, if you're waiting for your doctor to tell you that, yeah, that's not gonna happen. So, you know, hey, Doctor, can you tell me, you know, I want to set my insulin sensitivity and my Basal rates, just so I want to, you know, I just want to be no lower than 70. If I can help, and the doctors gonna be like, 70. And then you know, that'll be the end of it. And you'll, you'll be wherever they put you. And if you're, if they get those settings wrong, then the algorithms not going to work at all. Like when the ID algorithm settings are wrong. It's just as bad as you doing it manually, not knowing how to Pre-Bolus and misunderstanding, food impacts. You just you'll rollercoaster on, if this totally, yeah. It's not magic.

Gina 26:16
Yeah. No. And you have to like we have a conversation with our Endo, and the, you know, nurse, the diabetes educator in our office, which rotates I ended up talking to kind of a different diabetes educator pretty often. And every time we have a debate over his ISF setting, because in in their calculations, it should be much lower, the number should be smaller than what we use. And it's because you know, when you're using a manual pump, or you're doing MBI, you're not factoring in how closely loop is recalculating, recalculating, every five minutes, and the duration of insulin. I think they said it much shorter with a pump, like three hours or something. And you know, we're at lupus six, right? Yeah. So yeah, they, there's a learning, there's learning for everybody all along the way. And as these systems do come online, I guess they'll be gathering their data as well.

Scott Benner 27:21
I'm just trying to say that it is 2021. And if you go into most endocrinologists office and ask them how to extend a Bolus for pizza, they're gonna be like, I don't know. Right? You're asking them to like learn an algorithm, Me thinks that's not going to go so well. And then we get into the situation where the pump companies are not doctors. And not only are they not doctors, they're not allowed to give you advice about how to use your insulin. Like they're just there. They're not the FDA does not let them say that. So you're going to get this tool again. And I always I used to say, it's like you give somebody a bazooka, and you teach them how to fly like SWAT flies with it, you know, the mean? Like, like, does a lot more than this? Oh, this is what I'm allowed to say it does. You know, and so it can't and that's nobody's fault. It's, it's again, that's the FDA and the company stay out of it. So then where do you get your training? Well, the company's point to the doctors, well, I just told you, your doctor doesn't understand that, you know, your blood sugar is high, because your Basal is low. So good luck. You know, like I say something on this podcast, it is so common sense to me, which is if your Basal is not strong enough, your blood sugars will be high more frequently, causing you to correct out of balance with where the carbs are, which will eventually lead you to a low, that isn't common sense thing that I would say in court, if somebody asked me to write, I'd raise my right hand, put me in three Bibles and say that that is true, except you show that graph to a doctor and they'll go, oh, look, you're getting low here, here. And here. We should turn your Basal down more or less Basal, right, because you're getting lower, I saw low, so less, instead of seeing, because there's not enough Basal, your bolusing in crazy places and making those later. And that's a really basic and easy concept. And I figured it out myself. And you met me, Gina, I'm in it. Okay, so I figured it out. You can't get your doctor to figure it out. But yet, we're gonna hand them an algorithm and ask him how to fine tune it. Not not not gonna go well. So then what's the answer? Because community can't be the answer either. Because you see what happens. It burns out. Like people try really hard and then there's these the great places and then people come in to get help they get their help. And they take from it, which is what they're supposed to do. But then most of them leave. And the people who are left behind are like, well, this isn't my job. I can't do this forever. You know, so that there has to be a mechanism in place. I hope tide pool does it. Yeah, where where you can just teach, teach, teach. You know what I mean? Yes, I don't know what the Yeah,

Gina 30:00
cuz what's out there is amazing loop and learn and the people that are putting all that together and all the time and effort that went into that goes into loops group CGM in the cloud. I'm sure I'm missing seeing, and I can't even get into all the names of everybody that's so amazing.

Scott Benner 30:19
million great people doing great stuff, but it's not their job. And so, you know, listen, if you want to know why the podcast is good, if you think it's good, it's because it's my job. And so I can, while you're walking around thinking about, like, your job, I'm thinking about other ways to tell people about glycemic load and index, it aren't as boring. And so that's just what I get to do. And so when you have this coming through a Facebook group, at some point, people are gonna get like, Wow, I can't do this anymore. They'll get burned out, you know? Yes, I'm not allowed to get burned out because I sold ads. And if you don't hear you burn out my voice, because this is my job. You know? Yes, that's gonna be really interesting. I am, I am super excited to put my hands on on the pod five again, because I think I might learn something about it. I'm also excited that Omnipod saw from the beginning to get involved with Tide Pool, which I think they were like the first ones, right? They were like, one day, we're gonna put out an algorithm. And if you want to use our algorithm, you can and if you want to use tide pools algorithm, you'll be able to do that too. Like that. Yeah, that was and that's still in the works. As far as I understand.

Gina 31:31
I meet you, again, I'm pretty far down on the totem pole of getting the information. But yes, I understand that to be true. And, and

Scott Benner 31:41
Geeta, no one. Just so you know, what's that? I said, No one tells me, I'm not on any totem pole. I'm not I'm not at all on a totem pole anywhere. I don't even think some of the loo people even like me, but I don't know what to do about that. You know what I mean? So it's just, it's, they probably hate you for telling me about loop, I probably wouldn't know about it, it wasn't for you. This is all your fault here. Finally, we know. Finally, we're getting some answers about who to blame.

Gina 32:16
I mean, it definitely has probably brought some people into the space that would not have wound up there. But I am okay with that. Because I just, I look around, and I read, you know, forums, I started into that, you know, I did a deep dive when Carter was first diagnosed and found all these groups and found all this information. And quickly gravitated, you know, in one direction, because there were so many people who just, you know, were very, very helpless in a lot of ways. And I was like, Oh, I, I need more information than this. I can't do this for the rest of his life, because he was not even seven when he was diagnosed. You know, I need a more sustainable path. And so quickly found the more proactive groups and just kind of plunked my chips up over there.

Scott Benner 33:09
Where do you think you'd be personally if, like the algorithm never existed.

Gina 33:16
I mean, I don't even want to know. You know, because it used to get him in that that we didn't wait very long he was diagnosed, we got CGM, which really shows you, you know, whether you're on it or not on it, it shows you where you are. And so then did traditional pumping and found those places found us in those, you know, the highs, the lows, etc. And just the stress of that, it was a lot I took it on very personally. And, you know, watching those Highs climb at night, and the things that used to happen back in the beginning, it was psychologically not a good place for me to be. So I don't know how people do it. And that's why I wanted to be able to encourage people to not wait until a system comes out. You know, the whole, the whole hashtag, we're not waiting, appealed to me on so many levels. Like I've got to be doing something more. We this will not you know, this will not sustain. So I found I found the podcast. In addition to you know, I found the podcast and started listening that before we were looping it this was all sort of going at the same time. So I was not content to wait until you know, the next thing. And look, it's been full Carter's been diagnosed for years. We've been looping over three of those years. And we're still waiting on, you know, some of the algorithms to come to come Yeah, it takes a mark that got

Scott Benner 34:51
you got this far off of this and well, don't you? I shouldn't say Don't you think but I think that you said earlier you know, what do people do? I don't know what people do. I think what they Do as they give up, or it just becomes too overwhelming. I just got done interviewing someone whose kid was diagnosed when they were two, and by the time they were three, they, they were getting divorced. And then they lost a couple years in there. And you know, they won't see one up 789, you know, and it's like, you kind of don't even notice that happening. It just, it gets away from you, there's a lot going diabetes a full time job. And then you know, your mom in charge of it for a little kid. And then I think she had another kid, and then you know, she's got life issues, and all this is going on, something's got to give somewhere. And you know, like, what can give to that? You know, is it is it easier for your blood sugar to be 160 all day, or me not to have a job? Well, I have to have a job, we won't have insulin like so. Okay, so you don't I mean, you start making those bargains. And I think, I think that's what happens for most people, these algorithms, you know, so we're sitting around right now talking about this thing, that, you know, you have all this control over, and you get this fine control. And it's amazing, and it should definitely exist for everybody, you know, but then you start asking yourself, Could everybody really use it? And this is where Yeah, I know, good, good. I'm sorry.

Gina 36:18
Well, can they use it? And and I think that people can learn that, but then also, you know, if does it fit into their economic lifestyle? Right, um, you know, how do they afford it? Those kinds of things all come into play as well. But also, yes. How do you teach this? I mean, I come from a healthcare background. And so that helps me, I guess, maybe feel more competent, about tinkering and trying things. And, you know, I knew what a pancreas was some

Scott Benner 36:52
idea of what's going on? Well, so. So I mean, I'm gonna say on the pod five, you know, because that's what I'm going to be like using. But you take that, right, just try to imagine, I don't know how many users loop has, right, like actual users? I would, I would venture to guess that nobody knows. They know how many apps have been downloaded maybe or something like that. But I don't know, they know how many people are actually using it. But is it fair to say it's fewer than 10,000?

Gina 37:22
I'm gonna guess probably the last time I looked at, yeah, how many times the code had been downloaded and GitHub? Yeah, it was somewhere around there. But you're right. There's no real way to know. Right.

Scott Benner 37:37
And so it let's just forget first, let's say it, everyone who downloaded it is using it right. Right. Now let's Google worldwide. Type one. diabetes.

Gina 37:50
It's a fraction one

Scott Benner 37:51
e 21. Yeah. So a lot of people have diabetes? Yes, a lot. A lot. A lot of people I think they say like, it's like 460 million people have diabetes. In general, type one. diabetes, of course, is a fraction of that. And now, but what if I think the last number I heard was like 1.8 million, maybe? Right for type one, and you're telling me 10,000 of them have like the loop app on their phone? And so percentage wise, that's nobody, right? Like if I said to you, if I said to you, Gina, listen, here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna start a television show. And now there's 1.8 million people who have TVs. We need a big piece of those. Who are we're going to go out of business. And then you said to me, oh, but Scott, we have 10,000 I go, Oh, dammit, Gina, we have, we have to cancel a TV show. So it's just not a large amount of people. Now those other 1.8 million, by the way, pump use is not that widespread, far fewer people pump than you would think of that number.

Gina 39:01
Exactly. Especially when you get to international because so many of them are not. I mean, some countries this stuff just doesn't even exist. They just don't have access to it at all.

Scott Benner 39:11
I just sent a note from a listener in Romania, and they asked me to send it to Dexcom and Omnipod asking them to bring their stuff to Romania. And so like that, so but but Okay, now we're down to the people. A lot of people don't pump. Now you're down to like cost, right? So CGM are expensive, more expensive than not having a CGM pumps might cost more money or maybe your I don't know, maybe your insurance that covered this. And now we're down to the people who can afford it, who are insured who are inclined. And those people still have wack as a one sees and don't know what they're doing, right. Right now you're slapping on the pod five on them. And if you tell me that that takes their a one seat down into a stable place, that's magic. That's a magic rose people Yeah.

Gina 40:00
What did I read? Get it someone had put a statistic online just recently. And I do, I'm in a couple groups, so I kind of dive in and out of occasionally. And I think that, you know, the pediatric endocrinologist want kids under like, 7.5. That's their goal. And that only like 17% of kids are meeting the goal of being under 7.5. Yes. 17%.

Scott Benner 40:29
And I don't know, it's yeah, do you know, I don't know the Omni pod five numbers yet. But, I mean, I got to think the goal a one sees under 7.5, at least. And so right, if you're telling me that you could just slap this thing on those people, and they'd have that kind of improvement? Well, then hell, then you've said the greatest thing that's ever been said around type one diabetes management. Except true, except for you. And me and his other handful of 1000s of people who have seen Looper like, huh, hold on a second. I like to be able to turn Arden's Basal up while she's taking your essay to, you know, that it seems like somebody's taking something from you.

Gina 41:10
That's true. Yeah, we are a subset. And I'm not even in I mean, the subsets kind of vary, and there are people who are even more dialed in than I am, I like to use loop as like, my, not my autopilot. But as my cruise control a lot of the time, and I don't, I don't have our my son, I should say, doesn't always have a pristine line, and all these things, but it keeps us in the zone that keeps us in the lower, you know, the lower sixes, a one see, and and that allows me to, like, you know, take my eyes off the road. Occasionally,

Scott Benner 41:49
like when you hear him talking about warping and nudging, like people who don't have algorithms, that's what that does really, that bumping and nudging, right keeps you in a space that's manageable, where you're not so far out of whack that you're suddenly like, I don't know, how much insulin do you think will break up? 350? You know, like, you don't get that situation, you don't get into situations where you're like, I've been eating for an hour and a half and the 60 won't move like that doesn't really happen with the algorithm. Right? That's not to say that it couldn't, but in general, well set up, etc, etc. You don't see that as much as you would without it. But right, so I'm super excited. Like, I hope on the pod five works great for Arden for a number of reasons, a algorithm printed right on the circuit board, no need for any kind of a link thing. Yes. You know, like those things comes from the company. If it breaks, I know who to call, you know what I mean? Like, if when when loop goes bad, what I do yell at the Internet, you know, so.

Gina 42:46
Right, right? I don't know. Yeah, for the general population, I mean, it is going to be and I expect even people like I said, to move off of loop DIY loop into whatever, for sure. Because it is it's just less to carry around, it's going to be and compared to maybe what they had done in the past. You know, there I we saw people do that with even tandem, and kind of people pretty, you know, pretty deeply into the group went ahead and moved off into control IQ. And and they're happy, and it's working. And I totally applaud that whole. That whole effort. And yeah, like what you got to do what works for you, for sure. I agree.

Scott Benner 43:27
And also, yeah, enough for nothing. And I know there are people who wouldn't be bothered by this at all, but I'm not really comfortable having to send my daughter to college with a firm understanding of Xcode. So that she can build an app and load it on her phone. That's right, that's not, that's not in our life that's not conducive to harmony that makes it sound like I'm gonna have to get on a plane one day, fly to a school and do something. And when I get there, I'm still gonna have to call you to figure out how to do it, you know what I mean? And so I've just, I that level of complexity, and intricacy I'm not comfortable with, you know, the programming and the making the app and all that stuff like Arden needs a new phone so badly. And I guarantee you that the only reason we haven't done it is because I don't want to rebuild and I pretty sure I would just open Xcode, plug the phone in and like install it. I don't even think it would be hard. And I It scares me to think about doing it.

Gina 44:32
Yeah, we just recently Carter, Carter exploded phone. I don't even know what he did to the phone. He's He's 10 and a half and he's outside and running constantly and live water and all those things. I

Scott Benner 44:45
mean, my God, you're almost, you know, they mean might as well be 1812 Are you are you I don't even know it's such a nice place to be in there. But yes, thank you.

Gina 44:56
Thank you. Thank you. We need it. We need a plug there. In the middle of The map for sure, but we have large bodies of water and he not not an ocean, we're nowhere near an ocean. But he definitely manages to get all of this tech wet frequently, which has ruined a lot of things. And I'm just this past week, I had to build on a new phone like the send off, get a refurbished replacement. And, yeah, it caused a little sweat around the back of my neck. There's no doubt about it. It was like, Oh, God,

Scott Benner 45:24
I went away. I went away for a week, a couple weeks ago. And Kelly goes, she pulls me aside, she says, hey, if this thing stops working, what do I do? And I said, rip the pot off, pull her PDM out, put the batteries back in it, yeah, only I'll give you a Basal program to plug into it, you can go back to the way I used to do it. Because I write for I wouldn't know the first thing to tell her about how to handle it. And

Gina 45:47
it's true. And you have to have a backup plan, no matter where you are, you know, whatever way you're managing your diabetes, you've got to have a plan that includes putting insulin into a body somehow. So you know, I so I was away from Carter when the phone died. And I was like, okay, and I could start getting phone calls about it. And I'm like, okay, hold on, guys, don't panic, you've got this going on, we've got this is the backup, we've got this here, you know, because it is a complicated thing to kind of maintain. But we also have the backup plan, there's, you know, there's a long acting pen available there are you know, there's a vial of insulin, there are needles around. If we had to go back to old school, and finger sticks, we can do that. And we can do it rather quickly. And I think you always have to, you know, that has always be in your backup pocket in your back pocket. But the idea that you know, yeah, and we have a PDM that we literally have never used it's never even had batteries in it. But I keep track of or, you know, our settings are I have those kind of, well, they're really distorted Nightscout, where you can go back in and look at, you know, previous profiles. So you can so you can too, so I can't, I can't. But yeah, I don't care if it's even just scribbled on a piece of paper in your back pocket. You know, those things. Everybody has to have that no matter what you're doing. Yeah, you gotta have that backup plan. And it's not something that takes you six months of you know, all this, you know, like, oh, you should do this before you start pumping. Or you should do this before you have CGM. So you get a feel for it. You know, I'm not for bad either. I think that you teach people to use what they're going to use most common. And you make them aware of the fact that you know, in the event of an emergency, this is what you do. It's like getting on an airplane. Right? They they show you where the life.

Scott Benner 47:51
I'm not a fan of planning for failure. So, right, yeah, I'm gonna plan for success. And if something goes wrong, I'll adjust but I'm not gonna sit around understanding. You know, I don't know. Like, I just thought, right. I don't care. I wouldn't care if Arden was diagnosed today. I'd want her to have an algorithm today. And that old why that old ass argument about like, well, you need to understand how I don't even care. I would I don't think that's true. And I don't care. And if, if the world blew up, and there was no technology, and we had to go to a short, you know, a short and a long acting insulin and inject everything, I'd figure it out. But I don't need a year figuring it out just to give it away. Hope you know what I mean? Like it doesn't. I don't buy into that stuff. Like you need diabetes without a CGM. You try understanding diabetes without a CGM, that CGM is the only way to understand it, you know. So

Gina 48:45
I do think it is, you know, one of the many ways and then that's what I try to tell new families is because of course, anyone that knows someone whose child gets diagnosed, that I know, you know, they owe you got to talk to, you know, Gina, and so I tried to just and it's also overwhelming for them in the beginning. But I tried to just get that information in there, like, find your online community. And you know, podcasts of course, Juicebox Podcast, I don't start with, you know, going in hard on the rest of it. But if they can get to a CGM in the beginning Dexcom especially, then they're going to get that information right away, and it's going to help them fast forward through the learning curve, as opposed to the spot checking. That just leaves you feeling lost, confused, and lost.

Scott Benner 49:33
This is really come Gina, right. And the electricity grid goes down or I don't know. Russia hacks our grid or I don't know what's gonna happen. Let's be honest, it's harsh to say Arden's the first. Get any mean she's gone. Like Amy she knows that I know. We all know that this minute refrigeration is gone. We're on a countdown, right? We're on Yeah. So so I won't spend the last days of my life thinking I really do. I wish I understood MDI better than I do. Now, because we're running from zombies. It doesn't matter. It just is. So this is the world we live in. I'm planning for this world, like you don't mean like, I really would like to get an electric car one day, I don't, I wouldn't buy it and think to myself, Well, I hope electricity doesn't go away. Well, if it does, we have bigger problems than that I write electric car. The problem, we're all gonna murder each other in the street inside of a week and a half. Okay, that's the bigger problem. I mean, no one listening to this hasn't thought. If everything got sideways, how quickly could I get to the CVS break in and Robert and take all the insulin, we've all wondered how quickly we could get that accomplished. So great. So whatever your pharmacy is called, don't don't. Don't send me a note telling me about your Walgreens or whatever, just I don't care. We all had that. But that's not the plan for you don't plan for that. If you're planning for I think you're a prepper. And then I think you've got food and bones. And that's, that's got a lot of carbs. So you're in trouble one way or the other?

Gina 51:12
I don't exactly know, but I just I want people to know, that's right. You'd like you, you have to live today. And today, these things are available, and they're amazing. And you will be not waiting part like well, this will eventually be available. Like, you know, waiting five years for the Cure kind of thing. Like the curious not coming. I'm gonna assume right now, you know, until I have something in my hands, like, I am gonna use what's available right now. Yeah. And that, you know, that included loops. So

Scott Benner 51:43
you got to think is a little weird. But in comparison to progress, our lives are pretty short. So right, you can't give away a 10th of your life to waiting for something. Like, you know what I mean? Like, you're a great example, you figured out how to use loops, you've got all these years under Carter's belt of this, you know, you know good control and, and, and health and, you know, a confidence and an idea that it can be done like all that exists that whatever, you know, anxiety and stress, it's lifted off your life sleep, freakin sleep alone. It's amazing. Right? Yeah. And then something else is going to happen on the pod file to come out. And then if they don't, you know, and then and tandems, oh geez, alright, well, we'll get better at two and then Medtronic. Like, I'm tired of that guy on the podcast and our stuff is crap. And then they'll fix their thing. And then like, you know, and everybody's gonna keep pushing. And, and you're gonna get somewhere in a handful of years, you cannot imagine right now. And if you think that's, if you think that's BS, you have to really I'm going to tell you right now, my daughter's had diabetes. Since she was two she's about to turn 17. My rough math tells me that's 15 years. So 15 years ago, I had a meter that looked like it fell out of a bubblegum machine, a handful of needles and a vial of insulin. And now and a cell phone. What a cell phone was a thing that was in a bag on a cord that plugged into your cigarette lighter in your car, and your car doesn't have a cigarette lighter anymore. Okay. Now on my daughter's cell phone, which by the way, is a pocket computer more powerful than the first computer that launched us to the moon in the 60s. Okay, there's a an app with an algorithm in it. That is looking at our blood sugar going. Point three, five an hour point, one an hour, one an hour. 1.2 point 8.71. Take it all away, give it back. Oh, Bolus point five. It's doing that it's magic. Okay, like it's a man. It's amazing. And, and I don't know that I could have imagined that maybe even six, seven years ago. I don't think I could have imagined that. So what's gonna happen when she's 25? You know what I mean? Right? It's common.

Gina 54:02
Yeah, I'm, I'm counting on that, that the technology is going to continue to, it seems like all technology like, you know, we're speeding forward. It's all you know, what happened in the last 50 years? We've eclipsed in whatever five years or something and then so I'm counting on that occurring in the diabetes space as well.

Scott Benner 54:24
Let me do some reading. Give me a second here. Um, I know people from AMI pilots that my podcast and they damn well should I saw a lot that's not the point. All right, listen. Find the Ivan's find the I hire the Ivan's get the people I that should be a hashtag find the Ivan's I don't even know. You know, he's probably a gun runner in his spare time and I'm like hey hire I don't know him. Okay. Well, what you imagined if he was just a gun running type one who wanted to go down. She's right now like, like going across the desert hoping not to get caught. Hot by the IMF, which I think isn't a real thing. But that's the thing. Tom Cruise works for mission and but not the point. The point is, find people like that. And you hire them and show them your algorithm and say to them, Hey, make this better. And then when you're done making it better, take a vacation, and then come back and make it better again, like keep doing the right for us. You should be hiring those people. That's all.

Gina 55:24
CO signing on this 100% Thank

Scott Benner 55:26
you. I don't know who he is yet. Maybe it's somebody else. But hire those people. Put yourself in a position where you can stand up in front of people diabetes, hold up your your pump and say, this thing is going to hold your agency in the fives. Like if you could say that to people, that would be magical. Like do that, you know, anyway, try for that. That's all I have. I can't I can't be common sense for everybody. Jean. It's tiring. Okay. You just heard my brain. I took a nice man who's helped with Lupe, who I've never met before in my life. I turned him into an international spy I put him in the desert. Tom Cruise that all happened in 20 seconds. My brain is not built for like building algorithms, but it is built for saying stupid crap, and that I'm really good at that. So

Gina 56:11
right? I won't even say his name because I'm pretty sure it's probably pronounced with all different accents. And it could be Yvonne I

Scott Benner 56:20
mispronounce to him. Are you telling me I'm missing? I could be mispronouncing IV A N.

Gina 56:28
I think maybe you could be. I mean, this is incredible. No, no, that's the guy from Philly. mispronouncing an international name. Yeah, I don't know.

Scott Benner 56:39
I have I have Russian listeners. I'm assuming that's where this guy's from. That's got to be right, doesn't it?

Gina 56:47
Ask them Don't ask me. I'm gonna midwest.

Scott Benner 56:50
I heard that's where he was from. I mean, I can be applied to I Ivan's hyphens a woman named Yvonne who lives in Sarasota. I bet she's right. I just been wrong about all this.

Gina 57:03
Someone's gonna let you know. I hope so. I

Scott Benner 57:05
you know, for sure. Ivan Reitman made Ghostbusters. And he says his name Ivan. So I was thinking. I don't know. It doesn't matter. It's a it's a random name that I've literally heard out loud. Like, and I only know it because Kenny said to me one day, do you want to use Pete's auto Bolus, or Ivan's auto Bolus? And I was like, Alright, I don't know. Let's try it. I just pointed to the one that was closest to my finger. I didn't know what I was doing. It and but seriously, there are people out there. It's crazy that they don't work for the companies who are making it's insane. Right, you know? So yes, go find them. That's all I got. I know it's been an hour. But why are you on the podcast that I make you come on? Or did you want to come on? I can't remember.

Gina 57:53
We just sort of on one of our text threads. It was like, you're coming up on, I believe two years. blooping. But I think I said it's been two years since I double dog dared you to try this. And you said maybe you should come on. And I was like, yeah, it seems like it might be time. So

Scott Benner 58:12
let me let me thank you. So first of all, I would have not done it without you saying it like you specifically. So keep that in mind. This is all free. Things were going so well for Arden back then using the stuff that people hear in the Pro Tip series all the time that I never would have even thought like like where's better in this Ardens? A one season the fives it's stable. Like mid fives. Sometimes it's lower fives sometimes it's five, seven, but it's it's here. She eats whatever she wants. What what could be better than this? Well, the answer to what could be better than this is sleeping. Sleeping could have been better. I'm sleeping is really cool. And I missed sleeping and I don't listen anymore. You may have saved my life. And I don't know that it happened. Now on top of that, when you said it, I will be 100% Honest, what I thought was everything's gonna go algorithms next couple of years. It would be smart for me as the person running the podcast if I understood this stuff before it happened. Like I just thought it would be a bad idea. One day One people were like, here's an algorithm. I was like, what's that? Like? So I thought that was my closest ability to to learn about it. And it's become a staple in our lives. And it helps people on the podcast all the time. I get great feedback about the loop episodes that we've done, that really help people get their loops currently. And I've learned more about diabetes because of loop. I learned more about diabetes because of a lot of things that happen on the podcast. But just having Nightscout open and watching it manipulate Ardens Basal took my understanding of diabetes to a completely different level. So just

Gina 1:00:01
It just shows you the you see it, it's happening in real time in front of your eyes, instead of you trying to piece all this back together on the high on the back end, and be like, Oh, maybe that caused this or maybe that caught, you know, so I think even if you had to switch back to, you know, MDI and finger sticks, I still, I think people would be wiser because they had seen it would have seen the data in the past, and so they could make better judgments.

Scott Benner 1:00:31
100%. That's true, I 100% believe, Yeah, true. The idea that at 11am, the algorithm has a pretty good idea that you're going to be low in an hour. And it starts taking Basal away, but not just like, it doesn't just rip it away. It takes it away thoughtfully, so that you drift down, you don't like crash and catch, like, it's it's so gentle. Like how it works. Like when I look at artists, three hour Dexcom lines, they're always gentle, even if she gets a spike, they're gentle spikes. Even if she's low, it's a gentle low Arden's blood sugar does not hop straight up or hop straight down. And, but again, like there's more to it than just seeing like saying to somebody, like, Oh, I saw the data, so it makes more sense. And I know that when people are like data, but data data, please leave me alone. And so, but but, but just watching it happen, makes you feel like 100%, right, you put me back on just the pump. And the bumping and nudging I used to do I would I would instantly be better at it now. And one of the things that's taught me is like, we talked about crush it and catch it, like, you know, if a blood sugar gets really high, like you want to start over again, I can, I can look at the line on the Dexcom during a fall, like if I create a fall on purpose. And I know I'm gonna have to catch it with glucose, I can see on the line, it's not the number and it's not the arrow, it's the actual pitch of the line. I am like, ooh, put in the glucose right here, or put the loop back on. Like, sometimes I'll shut the loop off. And then I'm like right now right now, it's when we turn the loop back on, and it just boom catches it. Or sometimes you turn the loop off, meaning you now have Basal insulin covered in the loop has no ability to take it away or give it back and you're in a freefall. And if you don't know if it's ever happened to you in a freefall, turn the loop back on the loop shuts off the Basal, and the freefall stops in minutes. It's amazing. 100% amazing. It means that that the impact of the insulin, when it's being used in an incredibly thoughtful way, every minute of the day, it is more reactive than we think it is. Does that mean Exactly?

Gina 1:02:52
Yeah. Yeah. Because conventional teaching is that you make Basal adjustments for what you want to see three hours from now. Some thing like that, I've never paid any attention to it, because of course, we were doing this so quickly. But they you'll hear people say that like well, you can't use Basal as brakes. And I'm like, well, Luke can work very effectively that

Scott Benner 1:03:16
way. So now a regular person who's not using this algorithm right there, right. I think what what gets missed, I think what I'm learning is what gets missed is that most people even who are having success are largely having success through mistakes, they don't realize their mistakes. They're like, like their Basal is like, way too heavy, but they barely Bolus anything for a meal, or their Basal is way too light. But they their meal ratio is way heavier than it actually should be like there's a middle ground in there where they're Basal should be in their meal ratios should be but one's heavier ones lighter. They're making mistakes and making up for them somewhere else. But you don't realize that in another scenario, like the one I just described, you're too heavy Basal insulin has, has impacts across the timeline of your day. But if you but if Arden's Basal insulin said at one unit an hour, but for two hours, it was point eight for a half an hour, it was point four for another hour, it was 1.2. Like, then the insulin, it's the pinnacle of timing and amount, it's the right amount of insulin at the right time, 24 hours a day. And that takes a lot of the a lot of the variables around insulin. So yeah, everybody should have it if they can afford it, and they can figure it out. And yet I know that's not going to happen. So hopefully these commercial ones are going to spread like wildfire and help people that's my hope, at least I agree. And then I'm gonna learn how to use it and then we'll do episodes about that. And that's right, I gotta keep this podcast going.

Gina 1:04:49
I think I think you have an unending amount of information. And it's it's helped us so much even with looping. There's still so many things that You still need to think about, especially with growing kids, puberty, all that stuff that we're starting to look at, and it does some crazy stuff to numbers. Yeah. And it's just amazing how quickly he can need more insulin suddenly. And I don't think I would know those kinds of things. As quickly as I know, as I've learned them without having been, you know, a podcast listener all this time. It's so applicable no matter what you're doing, however, you're delivering your insulin that I, I just recommend it to everyone, I think.

Scott Benner 1:05:37
Thank you. Just amazing. I wanted to say that seriously. And then I just giggled over myself out of like, I don't know what

Gina 1:05:47
like, but that's exactly what I say when I checked all these moms that are new onset. I'm like, it will help you fast forward through the learning curve. Yeah. Oh, it really does. So listen.

Scott Benner 1:05:58
And you know, some people still can't I, the other day, I had it in my head. I was like, oh, I want to, I want to interview somebody who loves the Facebook page for the podcast. But it's never heard the podcast. And so I put up you know, I put up a post like that was like, Hey, if you love this, this group that you're in right now, by the way, it's called Juicebox Podcast, type one diabetes on Facebook. No, go join it. It's a really great Facebook page for diabetes. If you love this page, and you've never heard the podcast, I'd like to have you on the show. And way too many people answered me. I was like, I've ever heard the podcast, people are like, what podcast? Like, are you? Okay? But, but what I heard back most frequently from people was, I want to listen, I don't have the time. And the way I answered them, or I would answer anybody that says that to me, would be Look, listen to the defining diabetes episodes, there may be four or five minutes long each, there's 40 of them, there's a couple hours, and then go listen to the pro tips. There's maybe 20 hours of those. Now, okay, that might be 20 or 30 hours of your life. But what you'll get back after that is way more in time and, and confidence and, you know, alleviating fear, like what I want to say to them is, I know you think you don't have enough time to listen, what I'm telling you is you don't have enough time not to listen. Exactly. And that's a hard thing to make people understand, I think.

Gina 1:07:33
But I agree. But they Yeah, it just it really has truly helped us even just from the psychological standpoint, the sense of hearing someone else, you know, share their story, the emotional impact that had on me early on, the psychological impact of not of not feeling alone, not feeling ashamed that I'm doing it wrong. It has helped me just come at this from a much more non judgmental standpoint of like, okay, he is high right now, he needs more insulin. And that be like, What did I do wrong? What did he eat? Did you sneak food? I don't even want to be in that headspace. And the podcast has definitely helped us all that to hearing just the stories are different. But there, there's that thread that just runs through so many of them. And you you're instantly human without ever having met anyone. feel that sense of community. And it's super important.

Scott Benner 1:08:32
I agree. And I am. I'm touched that it. It strikes you that way. I think that's really wonderful. I will 100% admit that the podcast does more than I anticipated. It was not my some of this stuff is not on purpose. But I after I've seen it, I've definitely leaned into it. You know, I've definitely been able to see like, wow, this is something I didn't realize people needed to know. But it's super important. Like the define, I think, when people ask me like, what the best part of the podcast is like, if you're newly diagnosed, it's defining diabetes. Like you need to listen to those because it's all the words and the ideas that people are throwing around, you're like, I do not know what any of this means. So you can't effectively use a screwdriver if you don't know what a screwdriver is. So let somebody explain to you what it is. And then you know, Jenny and I'll have a fun couple of minutes where we'll show you where it would fit into your life. And then you think okay, now that's a tool I understand. Now. Once you have that, I think the pro tips are next to get like a deep dive into like management. But those defining episodes are really to me. I'm very, very proud of them. As a matter of fact, I'm working very hard right now on doing something else with them that I think will help people. Oh, I'm not gonna say on here, because well, Gina, some people listen to this podcast to steal my ideas. And so this is not going to be one of them there. You're not taking this idea from me you scumbags come up with your own idea. When talking directly, you know who you are. Eat it. Okay, that's it. Um, but But yeah, but I'll tell you when we're done recording, but I'm doing something with that, because I think there's I think there's so valuable.

Gina 1:10:17
Definitely, yeah. So no matter themes are they'll never have your delivery. So

Scott Benner 1:10:24
that to you can't steal me. Is that what you're saying? That's what I'm saying the glue that holds this bullshit together. That's 100%, right? No, I, well, listen, let me be 100% honest, I've never heard any of those people. And so I couldn't tell you if they're good at it or not. And so that that I want to be completely fair to them. They might be amazing at it. But there are it's not. It's not everybody. But there are people who wait for me to say something and then run out and try to do it before I get it done. So I've learned not to say things ahead of time. That's all. Yeah, that's all. Is there anything that we haven't talked about that you wished we would have talked about?

Gina 1:11:06
Um, no, I think I just encourage people to, you can encourage them to be bold with insulin, I just want them to be bold with trying new things and not waiting. We are not waiting. And that that can mean a lot of things to a lot of people. But just keep, keep trying something new, because that's what helped us the most.

Scott Benner 1:11:32
Because you do not want to look up 10 years from now and think, Oh, I didn't realize everyone was doing it like this. And I'm like this, like you don't change for the sake of changing. But when something makes sense. You should take a look at it. And algorithms makes sense. So that's pretty much it. I mean, if you've got a CGM already, like if you're on Omni pod dash and Dexcom right now, I mean, to me, it's a no brainer to try on the pod five when it's available. Agreed. All right. Well, hold on a second. I'll tell you my idea when no one's listening. Alright. Alright, nosy people, I

Gina 1:12:09
like to be in the know. Oh, who doesn't?

Scott Benner 1:12:12
Ready. I'll just start telling you right now what I'm gonna do with the define. I just restarted the recording because I forgot to ask you something. Alright, so you're, again, I've told you know what I'm gonna do with the show. And now we're back. When I was in Kansas City, yes, I It was a busy day for me. I was in and out of a lot of places. And then I went back to the hotel and the lovely people that had me out. told me they wanted to take me out for barbecue. And they took me to a place where I've told the story on the podcast before I thought I was going to die. It was like in an alley. It felt like next to a train track and everything smelled like cow manure. But the barbecue was amazing. Where was I?

Gina 1:13:01
Do you so? If you were all the way downtown Did you drive

Scott Benner 1:13:06
quite a ways? Not too far. We weren't.

Gina 1:13:09
We weren't around the county. I'm Joe's barbecue.

Scott Benner 1:13:14
It was like it was in like a square stucco nondescript building with a ramp on the side of it that easily could have been a warehouse

Gina 1:13:23
man. We have a lot of good barbecue here. Arthur Bryant Jr. Joe's barbecue, which used to be Oklahoma Joe's. Gates, of course. I mean, there's just dozens.

Scott Benner 1:13:38
So if I hold on if I say gates barbecue. Yeah, see that's not at that building looks new on a second. What Joe's? Well, they're

Gina 1:13:48
the original Joses literally in a gas station. And people wrap around the building every day to get back but they have a place out in the county as well. That's a little bit more of a restaurant. You were out in the suburbs, and I live in the city. I don't know.

Scott Benner 1:14:05
Quite as well out there your time. I apologize. I thought I thought it was gonna finally get my answer. But instead

Gina 1:14:10
now. I'm sorry. You can just cut this part out.

Scott Benner 1:14:15
Listen, I don't like to edit that much to a lot of trouble. I will keep track. Oh my god. There goes my voice. This is what happens when I try to do two podcasts in one day.

Gina 1:14:27
Oh my gosh, my voice just

Scott Benner 1:14:28
completely disappeared. Alright, I'm sorry. Hold on.

I want to thank Gina for coming on and talking to me today. And I'd also like to thank the Dexcom G six continuous glucose monitor for sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast. Head over now to dexcom.com forward slash juicebox. There are links in the show notes of your podcast player and links at juicebox podcast.com. If you can't remember dexcom.com Last juicebox I want to thank everybody for listening for following and your podcast apps for subscribing for telling other people about the show, leaving wonderful reviews, checking out the private facebook page. See me over there on the Instagram, all the stuff you do. Thank you so much. I'll be back soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.