#516 How We Eat: Intermittent Fasting

July 30, 2021Scott Benner

Author and podcaster Gin Stephens explains Intermittent Fasting.

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Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to Episode 516 of the Juicebox Podcast.

On this episode of the podcast I'm joined by fellow podcaster and author Gin Stephens. Jen is the host of intermittent fasting stories, and the intermittent fasting podcast. She's also the author of a number of intermittent fasting books. her newest one clean ish, eat mostly clean, live mainly clean and unlock your body's natural ability to self clean comes out in January of 2022. I've been looking for someone to come on for quite some time to explain intermittent fasting to me, Jen does not have type one or type two diabetes. But she is a person who is very well versed in talking about it. And I've had some interesting run ins with the fasting idea, and I wanted to understand more about it. Maybe this will help you with your life with type one. Or maybe you're the parent of a child with type one who's looking for a new way to eat one way or the other. This is the next in my series of how we episodes. While you're listening, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan or becoming bold with insulin. It is incredibly difficult to compile the data needed to help people living with Type One Diabetes. That's why the T one D exchange has asked me to ask you to consider joining the T one D exchange. All you have to do is answer a simple survey that only lasts it's a number of minutes. If it took you more than 10 minutes, I'd be surprised it took me like seven when I filled it out. You need to be a US resident who has type one, or a US resident who is the caregiver or person with type one. That's all you need to be. And you go to P one d exchange.org. Ford slash juice box. When you get there, everything is 100% HIPAA compliant. It is completely completely completely anonymous. And the questions aren't that difficult. They're not deep probing personal questions. They're kind of simple overview questions. But when they get answers from enough people, that data becomes important for people with type one. I'm going to tell you a little more about it later. But please consider going to T one d exchange.org. forward slash juice box. You'll be helping people living with type one diabetes, and you'll be supporting the podcast. I'll tell you more about it later. For now, I'd like you to meet Jim.

Gin Stephens 2:50
Well, hi, I'm so glad to be here. My name is Gin Stephens and I was an elementary teacher for 28 years. So I retired from that. Just before I retired, I wrote a little book called delayed on deny about living an intermittent fasting lifestyle and ran some Facebook groups and it turned into a full time career. So I love teaching and now just manage intermittent fasting support groups, and wrote another book that came out in June of 2020 called Bad speech repeat, which was a New York Times bestseller. So I am loving my intermittent fasting lifestyle and have maintained an over right right around 80 pounds loss since I first lost the weight in 2014 to 2015. So intermittent fasting has turned into my lifestyle and my career. And I just love it. Wow,

Scott Benner 3:44
I have to say I've been looking for someone to talk about this specific subject for a while. And it took me a lot of picking around because you'll reach out to people who were like I do intermittent fasting and I have this or that you think okay, well, they must be used to talking about it. And then you reach out to them like nah, I'd rather not like cheese, how can this be your thing and you don't want to talk about it. But I am so happy to have found you. What's the name of your podcast?

Gin Stephens 4:08
Well, I actually have three podcasts. Okay, the podcast are now you're gonna think I'm crazy. Well, that's a lot of podcasts. Right?

Scott Benner 4:15
You know what, then let's go backwards first, for a second. We'll get to the internet people a listener, like right away, this guy's gonna start talking is that asking about intermittent fasting? But so I want to understand first, you're a teacher. Right? And are you a teacher who's looking to change their lifestyle and finds this thing and then opens up the support group?

Gin Stephens 4:37
Yep, that's exactly what happened. I was even like many of your listeners, I'm sure. I was a chronic dilator I mean, I started dieting in high school before I even needed the diet, right? Because my mother was a dance teacher. And so I was always obsessed with issues counting calories like out in my 11th grade year. This was back in gosh 1984 85 This is how long ago it was I took a computer programming class with words learning basic, that was the name of the programming language. And I programmed a calorie counter program. So I've always had my head and diets. But over the years, you know, as I went to college graduated from college, my weight continued to yo yo, up and down, you know, the yo yos got higher, you know, would go up more than I would go down more. And so it started to look like a big roller coaster over time. And eventually, in 2014, I found myself at 210 pounds, which was officially obese. You know, I had a doctorate and gifted and talented education, and you have a master's degree in natural sciences. And I thought, you know, I'm smart, Why can I not figure out really how to lose the weight and keep it off? And so I just always was in search of that. Thank goodness, intermittent fasting has been the answer, because I have maintained in my goal range since 2015. Even as I've gone through menopause, I'm now on the other side of that, and still maintaining, but you know, it's what I was looking for all those years. And I just didn't know it. Okay,

Scott Benner 6:02
so I have I'm just for context, how tall are you? I'm five, five. Okay, and now you weigh more like 130 ish.

Gin Stephens 6:12
Yeah, right around there. I haven't weighed myself in years, because I just go by the fit of my clothes now. Right? So you must be close to fit.

Scott Benner 6:21
Is that? Is that a freeing idea to not step on a scale?

Gin Stephens 6:24
Yes, it really, really is. Like, in context, I'm coming from the beach. I'm at the beach right now. And I've been here for two weeks, I'm going home tomorrow. And you know, I know my weight would be up. If I were weighing the scale, just because I've eaten differently. You know, it's been a week, your family, I ate out a lot. And so you know what it got to me. But all this lifetime of dieting, you know, I would get on the scale and see that the number was up intellectually, I know, well, it's because they ate differently. I didn't gain, you know, fat, all this fat over the course of two weeks at the beach. And it goes down over the next few days. But then you start having those diety thoughts, like, Oh, I better go on a diet. And what I learned with intermittent fasting is it all takes care of itself, you know, you live the lifestyle. It just all works out, like I said, so I've been maintaining my weight since 2015. You know, if my honest GPS get a little tight, then I just realized that our time to maybe tighten up those eating windows a little bit, and it all works out? Well, it's so much more freeing, and I lose that diet thought that I was so trapped in before,

Scott Benner 7:25
how much of being a teacher helps you organize a support group

Gin Stephens 7:30
100%, I'm gonna tell you the very best preparation for working with a large group of adults, as well as being an elementary school teacher, because you learn classroom management and how to deal with, with people, you know, little people are, you know, grow up to be big people, and they have the same personalities. And so, you know, my skills is managing groups of people really has helped me with running the Facebook groups. I've since left Facebook, I'm no longer there. But which is a whole different story. But it really is very helpful. And also, I realized, being an elementary teacher, it helps me write books. You know, people are like, Wow, you've written this in a way that I really understand it. And one of my friends said, Gosh, I think all books should be written by teachers. And I think, yeah, that's what we're trying to do. We're trying to deliver content to people in a way that makes sense. That's my whole background, you

Scott Benner 8:26
and I talk in pictures. And I think that's why this podcast is positive for people. Because I'm explaining how to how I use insulin for my daughter and a number of other things. And what I hear back more often from people than not is that I really understand it when you explain it. It's very easy to grasp. It's not very technical. It's in my head. Yeah, it's just your boy.

Gin Stephens 8:50
Yeah, I was had an endocrinologist. I mean, think about this. I'm an elementary teacher, I had an endocrinologist, email me and say, Wow, your explanation of I don't I don't even know what probably I was talking about insulin and the type two diabetes and fasting this of course, very different from type one diabetes, as you know, but he said, it really helped me understand in a way I'd never understood it before. I'm like, well, that's just wacky.

Scott Benner 9:16
Yeah, I just had an endo. I just recorded with an endo last week who came on to tell me that the podcast changed how they talk to their patients. Wow, is very cool. But it's it just goes to show that some people are good at delivering a message and some people aren't. And I suspected maybe the teaching part helped you? Yeah, I'm just gonna stay here for one more second before we get to the fasting thing. You said you're not on Facebook anymore. Did you create your own group off online somewhere else? It's not through Facebook.

Gin Stephens 9:42
You know, I did. I did. And it's it's small. I had gotten up to almost 500,000 group members across my combined Facebook groups. But you know, Facebook started making a lot of mistakes with their artificial intelligence. In fact, just this morning, and I haven't been on Facebook since March, I left March 29 is the day I walked away. You know, recording this, gosh, three months later, almost Well, almost to the day. But just today when I left one of my Facebook groups still active, but run by moderators, but I haven't been there just today I got a deem by Facebook me. Obviously, it's something I posted months and months ago. But they said that I posted something that went against cybersecurity. I mean, I have not been posting on Facebook, like I said, since March, that's been over three months. And today, and because I'm the quote, admin of the group that goes against group studying against the group, if we get too many of those, they shut down the group, right. And, you know, we're intermittent fasting support group. And so my fear was, in the fall, they started cracking down on health groups. And, you know, we all know, you know, the spread of quote, misinformation is something they're trying to go against, but they were shutting down, like essential oil groups and things like that, like a friend of mine had a cooking group, and it got shut down overnight while she was asleep. And she didn't know why. And she was also, you know, off of Facebook, like she had her account had been deactivated. And then her group of 10,000 had been shut down. So I started thinking, you know, I did all of my work on Facebook, and with one click, they could shut me down,

Scott Benner 11:17
right? From an algorithm.

Gin Stephens 11:19
Yeah, yeah, based on I mean, I don't what did I do months ago, or even I may put it in a post I made years ago, I,

Scott Benner 11:26
someone in my group was once reported for bullying by the algorithm. And I looked, and they were just sarcastically saying something to someone that everyone involved in the conversation completely understood.

Gin Stephens 11:36
Oh, we got a Dang. And on the group, I'm one of the moderators, and it counts more when it's a moderator and admin, that's what gets your group shut down. But one of the moderators got a ding for saying, it was it was called bullying. And she had said this to a group member, she's like, well, don't worry, once you're fat adapted, fasting gets much easier. Okay, well, the AI saw your fat that's in contact, your fat adapted? Yeah, I mean, that's a perfectly good contact. And then she appealed it, and she got like a Facebook Jail for like a week. And it counted against the group. Because she was a moderator. And we're like, wait a minute, this is crazy. So I, you know, I started feeling the threat of I could really lose everything I've built, you know, you don't have email addresses of the group numbers. So I walked away, and it feels great

Scott Benner 12:25
for you. That's excellent. So and I agree, I that my Facebook page, I mean, I don't have 500,000. But there's 13,000 people in there, I only started at maybe a year and a half ago, and much more niche group of people, obviously. But, uh, I have that thought sometimes like, what if I like, what if this just gets taken from me by an algorithm? Or by something like that it's helping all these people? How do I find them to say, I don't even know what to do. So maybe I'll have to, in the back of my mind, start figuring out what you learned. So people can have a safer place. But nevertheless, I asked you on the show, because I am probably I am not a good eater in general, meaning that if it's green, or natural, or in any way reasonably good for you, I probably never had it before or eating it under protest that when I was 12. And I, my body retains water, like I'm in the seventh month of a pregnancy. So if I, if I eat too much of anything, I can wake up in the morning, four pounds heavier. It's absolutely right. It's It's crazy. So I'm always and forever and the people know listening, I'm always in forever just like messing with one thing or another, but I never do anything specifically. And then one day I run into intermittent fasting. And I have not kept up with it for I guess reasons that have nothing to do with how well it worked. But I went to a schedule of like eating from, I guess 11 to seven maybe 11am to 7pm. And I started with like a I don't I think I might have started with like a 36 hour water fast. And I went right into intermittent and then I must have lost 15 pounds in like a week. Wow. waterway 100%. And but as I was going and then I kept moving. I started testing the theory, I started acting like a like a scientist, I was like, I'm gonna eat everything in between this gap of time. And it was stuff that I don't even normally eat stuff that I would not consider Good for you. And I couldn't gain weight. Right? And so I don't understand that. And then here's the other side of it. My daughter's had type one diabetes, and she's two she's 17. Now this podcast reaches a lot of people who use insulin and have type one and type two diabetes. When my daughter wakes up in the morning, and overnight her blood sugars are absolutely fantastic because there's no fast acting insulin in her and there's no food, that kind of stuff. And it hit me one day. Arden fasts my daughter Just not on the schedule you would think of she basically goes to bed at 10pm and doesn't really wake up and start eating till nine or 10am. She's basically a 1212 eater, right. And her blood sugars are super stable in that time and no lows, like just very stable. So I'm looking for somebody to really explain the nuts and bolts of intermittent fasting, how it works. And I think you might be the person so whatever it is, you tell people about it, I'd love it if you could tell my listeners now.

Gin Stephens 15:30
Well, you know, you've seen it in action and your daughter her blood sugar is very stable because she's not taking in any any fuel wants to sleeping. And our bodies just running right along. You know, our bodies can can be fueled by what we're taking in. you're consuming or our bodies can be fueled from within, right. So within, like, let's say your fasting, there are two places your body can get your fuel one would be glycogen stores. I mean, how basic Do I need to get into this?

Scott Benner 16:05
Like in your liver, your liver, your liver holds glycogen

Gin Stephens 16:08
up? Yeah, your liver, your liver holds glycogen, your muscles hold glycogen, right? So you know, if nothing's coming in, that's the first place your body's going to turn. And it's gonna you know, it days since to save the glycogen in your muscles for for activity, but it'll it'll dip into that liver glycogen. And it's still nothing is coming in. Oh, and by the way, that's why you may see during a fad that you may see blood sugar go up. And you might think, well, how is this possible, I haven't eaten anything was my blood sugar up? Well, that's because your liver is releasing the glycogen. And it's going in your bloodstream. So you have to be aware of that your blood sugar can go up while you're fasting because the it's coming from within your body. So once your liver gets depleted of glycogen, to a certain degree, your body's like, Alright, dude, we got to do something else, we got to get some more fuel. And that's when it starts tapping into your fat stores for fuel for fuel. Sorry, you drink some coffee, I'm drinking my black coffee right now. So you start tapping in your fat stores for fuel and your body really has a lot of fat stores on board. And it can keep you going for a long time. And it can also make ketones out of your fat stores that fuels your brain very well. This is not the same as you know, diabetic ketoacidosis, obviously, which is something you'll have to watch out for. But you you feel great. So your brain has a steady source of fuel from the the ketones that are being produced. And you know, a lot of people think that you only make ketones if you're on the keto diet, and that's not true. Fasting is very ketogenic. And so, you know, I carbs my eating window every day. But during the fast, I find myself, you know, dipping into ketosis, you know, as I get into the later part of the fast, you know, before my eating window opens. So I have great mental clarity, and great sustained energy during the day, you know, for whatever I need. So I really think our bodies are meant to be metabolically flexible like this, if you think about the standard way that we've been really told to eat for the past few decades, you know, breakfast is, quote, the most important meal of the day, and you need to eat to boost your metabolism. And all these things, we've been told that people are eating like six times a day snacks in between, we're constantly putting sources of energy into our body. And so we never have to tap into our stored fat for fuel.

Scott Benner 18:33
Right, you're just always staying on, you're always keeping the gas tank full. So you don't know

Gin Stephens 18:37
exactly, we're always in the Fed state. And so we never, we never have a chance to even you know, to dip into our fat stores. Really, and you know, we're meant to be metabolically flexible, which means we're able to, you know, change our fuel source as needed, once your body adjusts to intermittent fasting courses doesn't happen on day one. But once you adjust, your body can just do what it needs to do and you don't feel terrible.

Scott Benner 19:03
You feel great in the fasted state, your body just makes that shift naturally like it's supposed to do. It's funny, as I was doing it, it occurred to me, I've been talking about this a lot lately that because of the internet, you have to name things because if they don't have a name, you can't look for it. Right? But if if you would have eaten like this 30 years ago, what somebody would have said, like, how do you eat, you would have said, Oh, I skipped breakfast and I don't eat when the sun goes down. That might be all you'd say. Yeah, you know, and that really is what you're doing right? And you're creating this, this thing that you're describing this time where your body can kind of just say, Alright, now I'm going to work on your fat. I'm going to take the storage and then at some point, I guess you get the storage depleted down where physically you appear more of the way you're hoping to. And then you eat during the eating schedule, which puts it back in and then you stop eating during the fasting schedule and then your body He pulls it back out again. And then you're in this kind of nice back and forth

Gin Stephens 20:03
all this. Absolutely, that's what happens. And another name for intermittent fasting, that's a little more sciency time restricted eating, you know that that sounds a little bit better to some people, you know, oh, I follow time restricted eating, which means you just eat within the window of time. And you know, the cats out of the bag, a lot of people are like, I'm not gonna call intermittent fasting, you can call it whatever you want that I mean, it is called fasting, you know, in the general landscape, but time restricted eating just maybe sounds a little better to some people. But even though it's the same thing,

Scott Benner 20:32
and I gotta tell you, I don't care what it sounds like, I there's, there's a whole series inside of the podcast mind called how we eat and somebody with Type One Diabetes comes on, and talks about their eating style, so that people can see that people eat in all different ways. My theory, my theory being everyone with type ones using insulin, they just need to understand how to use it for their style. And so I just couldn't find a type one who intermittent fast. And it seemed more technical than just explaining how they did it. So that's why I asked you to come on. And I presume

Gin Stephens 21:05
Have you ever read the book mastering diabetes? Have you seen that one?

Scott Benner 21:08
I don't read as a general rule, because I'm a boy. No, because I'm very busy. And I and I have seen people on the Facebook page talk about that. But to the extent that I understand what it is, I think it's they eat like a lot of fruit and vegetables and the

Gin Stephens 21:24
type one that that that's what's what's why I brought it up their type one. And they are I don't know if they're completely vegan, but they're very plant based, low fat plant based. But they talk about, you know, why that works so well, in for type one, and also, but the intermittent fasting, so they do intermittent fasting and like that plant base,

Scott Benner 21:44
my my thought around eating is that it's sort of like my thought around everything, but you can't, there might be a perfect solution. But I don't think you can make everybody do it. So I prefer to just say, look, here are all the options. Maybe one of these fits you.

Gin Stephens 22:01
Well, we're all different when it comes to what foods work for our bodies. And science is actually telling us this more and more. You know, the whole field of personalized nutrition is popping up. They're doing a lot of really interesting research on it. A lot of it comes from our gut microbiome. And like we've found, you know, I get like, let's just say glycaemic index, you know, we've all heard of the glycemic index and glycemic response, probably your audience more than most. But it blew my mind when I realized when I finally understood that we all have individual glycaemic responses, like the way I respond to a potato might be different from the way you respond to a potato. And, you know, it, there's not a universal glycaemic response to any food.

Scott Benner 22:41
Yeah. You know, if I, if I completely cut sugar out of my life, my gi system doesn't work as well. Really, I don't need a ton of it, but I need a little bit of sugar and then the entire process start to finish goes better. That was a really I

Gin Stephens 22:58
need to eat starchy, starchy carbs, I feel better when I eat starchy carbs, you know, I tried to do keto, back in the day before intermittent fasting the whole summer of 2014. I was like, I'm gonna lose weight with keto because then I'll never have to quote diet again. I'm just gonna eat this. I'm just forever by lose any weight. And I felt awful. And I never felt satisfied. I never felt full even though I was eating so much fat, so much food. And then that was when I said, Forget it. I'm just gonna do intermittent fasting. And I'd heard about it, I knew about it. I dabbled in it, but I couldn't make it stick as a lifestyle. Then finally, in 2014, when I switched from keto to intermittent fasting, I reintroduced carbs. And I finally started losing weight. And I felt so much better. And I'm like, Hmm, I really do need to eat carbs. And you know, when I try to try to avoid them, I do not feel satisfied. So I believe that we're really are all different. goes back to what lives in your gut microbiome.

Scott Benner 23:56
Well, let me ask you this when you're not eating when you're in the fasting part of the intermittent fasting, so the intermittent is I'm intermittently eating and the fast thing is, I'm also intermittently fasting when I'm in the fasting part. What if forget, type ones for a second? Okay, type twos and people who don't have diabetes is is fasting lessening your need for insulin?

Gin Stephens 24:20
Well, it would Yes, because you're our bodies know people whose bodies produce insulin are in our bodies when we release the insulin in response to food in our blood sugar going up and so with those of us who have have a working pancreas, insulin is coming out. Like if I were to drink a diet soda right now, for example, my brain says Oh, we got something sweet coming in. That means sugar because our brains don't understand Oh no, this is made in the lab. This is artificially sweet because all throughout history, everything that came in that tasted sweet was fruit or honey or sugar or you know it was going to give us a blood sugar was going to go up. Doesn't happen with with the diet sodas. So our bodies release insulin in response with this valic phase insulin response. And so high levels of insulin are actually anti lipolytic, which means keep us from tapping into store fat. So, like if I just drink diet soda all day long and had no food coming in, I would not be tapping into my fat stores very well, because my insulin would stay up even though my foods coming in because I'm sending that food signal. You know, we don't want to send food signals to our body when we're not really eating.

Scott Benner 25:42
Interesting. Okay,

Gin Stephens 25:43
it is very interesting. I learned all of this from reading Dr. Jason funks. work. I didn't understand that before. You know, we all have been taught that oven has zero calories. It's diet, it's good for you. And when I read the obesity code, I was like, Oh, no wonder we all have all these problems. Yeah, type two diabetes is really a disease that starts with too much insulin. You were were insulin resistant, it follows you know, a pattern of insulin resistance. Insulin is too high, our body becomes more resistant. It all just breaks down over time. And leading to insulin dependent type two diabetics, you know, my dad is in that situation. But I actually read a great article. I think it was written by a nurse practitioner, I can't remember but it was when I was researching for fasciae strappy that talked about hyperinsulinemia and our fasting insulin levels. And again, this is not going to be the same thing for someone with Type One Diabetes, but for someone on the way to type two diabetes. And basically she said we're testing the wrong thing. You know, we track your a one C, and blood sugars, but really, fasted insulin starts to go up even before your a one c starts to go up. So that would be the thing to actually track your tracking unit. She said the wrong thing. If everyone knows what their fasted insulin is doing, you could actually take care of that and maybe prevent your one C from from going up prevent the the progression to type two diabetes, my mom and I'm not a doctor. So yeah, listen,

Scott Benner 27:17
people listening to this know this. They're not getting medical advice here from me. Yeah, bad for me. Yeah, don't worry. There's a big disclaimer at the beginning. So you just didn't hear it. I so my mom is 78 years old, and I'm adopted. So she's not biologically my mom. But she started about a year ago, seeing her a one seat rise, and her father had type two diabetes. And I said to her, like, we're in the middle of a pandemic. And I'm like, Mom, listen, here's what I want you to do. was like, I put her on an intermittent schedule, and a lower carb than she does maybe not more than maybe 30 carbs a day. And her a once he came. I mean, she's 78 and she wasn't being active and ra once he dropped down like a point, awesome.

Gin Stephens 28:01
Intermittent fasting does that. Also, you know, you got to make sure that during the fast you're not doing anything that would make your body think foods coming in so you avoid anything with any kind of sweetener. No matter what they tell you. They're like, Oh, no glycemic response. Well, not right now. Avoid any kind of sweetener or food flavor. Don't put lemon in your water. Don't put cucumber in your water, avoid, you know, fruity herbal teas like Apple Cinnamon delight, that kind of thing. You don't want your body to think foods coming in.

Scott Benner 28:29
Can we talk about this on another episode where a CD who's on named Jenny said that when a person who doesn't have diabetes, smells food, or even believes they're about to eat that their insulin starts to work? Yeah, to help keep your blood sugar levels true.

Gin Stephens 28:46
Yeah, it's true. It's your body sensing these food cues. And that cephalic phase insulin response, you know, your body's like, Alright, food is coming in. So you know, we don't want to worry about things we can't control. Like if you're walking through the mall and you smell Cinnabon, you don't need to freak out but

Scott Benner 29:04
I just pictured someone throwing themselves off the second floor into the planter,

Gin Stephens 29:09
where the clothes pan on their nose. You don't need to do all that right? Just you know, don't put anything in you can control what you're drinking, you can control that very easily.

Scott Benner 29:17
Yeah. So if I'm intermittent fasting, I don't even want to have tea before my my eating time starts

Gin Stephens 29:25
you can have you can have black tea, plain tea, green tea, anything that's made of actual tea,

Scott Benner 29:30
that I put sugar into it or something like that. Boom, I'm done. Yeah,

Gin Stephens 29:34
I don't want to add anything to it. So a bitter flavor profile like it's found in black coffee because I'm drinking my black coffee right now. I had to learn to love it because I used to be a heavy stevia user I would put vanilla cream stevia and cinnamon in my coffee and it was a delicious treat. My brain thought it was a delicious treat to but switching to black coffees made all the difference because the bitter flavor profile is not associated with, you know, calories are coming in. So your brain does not see that as a food cue.

Scott Benner 30:04
Does, can the schedule move about? Like, can I, I can do 10 to six one day or noon to eight, like if I'm gonna go out to dinner later like it does that work?

Gin Stephens 30:13
Absolutely. And, you know, you can, you're talking about an eight hour eating window and an eight hour eating window is a great schedule for someone who is not trying to lose weight. Someone who just wants my husband, for example, he never needed to lose weight. He's a PhD organic chemist, and he does a loose 16 eight, he eats lunch, he eats dinner, that's it. And on the weekends, sometimes you might shift a little earlier and have like a really like a brunch kind of lunch, if it's gonna be doing a lot of yard work or something. And it's flexible for him. Now, if you're a woman like me, or if you're trying to lose weight, you may need a shorter eating window, you know, five hour eating window was my weight loss sweet spot. And waiting till later in the day to open my eating window worked better for me, but it's really your your study of one, you've got to figure out what feels like a lifestyle to you. Because intermittent fasting is not something that you want to start and stop, start and stop. You know, your metabolic flexibility can be affected. If you go long stretches without doing any intermittent fasting, you'll have to go through the adjustment period again. And that's the hardest part. So you want to you want to find a lifestyle that is the right amount of fasting for what feels good to you, and allows you to meet whatever the goals are the path,

Scott Benner 31:31
that adjustment period. I am obviously it's probably different for other people, but is there an average on how many weeks until you're not you don't feel hungry, and it feels normal to you.

Gin Stephens 31:41
It really does vary from person to person. So if anyone is starting intermittent fasting, I would encourage them to read or Scott, listen to my book fast, please repeat. It's on Audible. And I actually read it to you, I have something in there called the 28 day Fast Start, and that is your adjustment period. And so that's kind of an average. Now, if you're, you know, pretty metabolically healthy, you might adjust more quickly. Or if you've dabbled in intermittent fasting before, if you're eating, you know, a low carb diet that would also help your body probably make the transition more quickly. versus if you're someone who has been battling your weight for a long time you know, your type two diabetic, you've been obese for a while, it might take your body a couple of months, and maybe 28 days is not going to be enough, you may need to tweak what you're eating as well. Over time, it's really going to be different for everybody, you need to ease in as much as you need to. But understand the goal, you know, you fast clean, which you avoiding any of those food cues, you stick to plain water, no flavors added. You can have sparkling water as long as it's unflavored black coffee, plain tea, stick to the clean fast. And then even your eating window, close reading window, do it again tomorrow. And you just really learn to listen to your body. If you ever feel shaky or nauseous during the during the adjustment period, or really anytime that that may be a sign that your blood sugar is too low now that your audience would be testing their blood sugar so they would know you know in that case, go ahead and eat Don't be a hero. Don't push them through something that your body's telling you eat and you eat.

Scott Benner 33:20
I also have a fairly big caregiver audience too. So a lot of people who don't have type one that you know our parents and you know, might need the information as well like this. This is a an interesting episode for me kind of crosses a lot of different different audience members that I don't normally do. What what are their you said the fast clean What about when you're eating?

Gin Stephens 33:50
When you're eating you know, you eat what what you how you want to eat. You know, as I already said, there's no one way of eating that works for everyone. You know, they're there for I'll use two books for example. One is mastering diabetes that I already mentioned, written by two guys are type one they eat. Like I said, it might even be vegan like that vegan, and that's what they recommend. Well, then on the on the flip side, we've got the diabetes code written by Dr. Jason Fung and he represents our he recommends that you use a high fat low carb approach. And both approaches they're like 180 from each other, but they're working for different people. But what both have in common is the fasting. You know, so that's that's a commonality between both books. You have intermittent fasting in there. And then during the eating window, you find a way that works well for you. I mean, I eat all the foods. I'm also metabolically healthy, I don't have diabetes, and I never was diagnosed with pre diabetes or anything. Although I was probably on my way at 210 pounds. I had a lot of abdominal fat. And you know, that's a big sign of metabolic syndrome. So I'm pretty sure I wasn't you know, especially Looking at my dad, I was on that path. But you know, I eat all the foods. I feel better when I eat real foods and avoid ultra processed foods, although I still eat ultra processed foods every day. Like I love crackers and chips. I just do fit them in around my whole foods instead of making them the centerpiece.

Scott Benner 35:18
Yeah, so you're not having a bag of chips? Oh, gosh, no. So what if I'm gonna go down the other side of the spectrum for a second? What if you're a person is like, I can eat on a schedule, but I'm not going to eat well? Will there be any benefit for them? If they're, like, literally at McDonald's during their eating window?

Gin Stephens 35:37
Well, you know, yes, I like to say the magic happens during the clean fast, although what you eat is important. You're gonna be, you're gonna be better, you know, we need to nourish our bodies, because that's really what makes them work well, but they did a study with rats, I believe. And so I'm just talking about at the top of my head here. I don't have the details in front of me, but they fed different groups of rats different ways. And they also did intermittent fasting with the rats and the ones who continue to eat. I think they called it the cafeteria diet. It was, you know, ultra processed foods. Those rats had health benefits from the fasting even though they they ate the junky food.

Scott Benner 36:18
I made it I go, you stumbled and you use two different colloquialisms and you blinded them. You started I said, I'm talking out of my head, which I believe is I'm talking out of my ass and talking off the top of my head put the

Gin Stephens 36:29
guy did. I'm also in the south. And we don't say we don't say bad word. I know. Of course, we're trying to women not to do that. Also, I taught school for 28 years so often and changing what I'm saying.

Scott Benner 36:44
I like I said, we don't say that you just don't say that more people can hear you.

Gin Stephens 36:47
Well, we say around our trusted people. And really, things have changed over time to almost 52. So it's hard to unlearn those habits. And again, you have to be super careful in a classroom full of kids.

Scott Benner 36:57
It was delightful. When I heard the two colloquialisms get blended together and you rolled right through it. I was like, that's so interesting. Am I not asking you anything? I should be asking you because I really don't know enough about this?

Gin Stephens 37:09
Well, you know, the one thing I guess you might want to ask is, is it different? Or I'm just gonna tell you, I'm gonna just answer it, you know, the different for you, whether you're type one or type two? And the answer is yes, obviously, you know, you're going to if you're type one, you're going to really need to possibly work with your endocrinologist. Hopefully, your endocrinologist is is knowledgeable about intermittent fasting more and more of them are. But you may need a different plan than someone who's type two, of course,

Scott Benner 37:40
right? Well, I just going off of that and telling you something you might never need to know, but might find interesting. So my daughter uses less Basal insulin overnight than she does during the day. Right? And so I'm imagining that if people want to try this with type one, they're gonna run into a similar situation, but it might not be as Stark and helpful as they think. Because there's still other things at play that when you have the pancreas where any

Gin Stephens 38:10
factors? Yeah, I mean, right. And be aware that your blood sugar might go up, you know, like after the workout, for example, if you're fasting, and you work out, you might see your blood sugar pop up, because your muscles are dumping that glycogen, you know, and so you still have to be on top of that, even though no food has come in, you do have to keep your eye on it.

Scott Benner 38:34
I just recorded a variable Episode The other day that may or may not be up by the time this goes up that discusses the difference for type ones between anaerobic exercise and aerobic exercise and what happens to your blood sugar in both situations. And when you tax your muscles lift heavy weights, you are most definitely going to see a blood sugar rise afterwards. Yeah, right. I'm even talking about growth hormone for kids. Hormones from you know, menstrual cycles. Like all this stuff is not going to be completely squelched by as far as I can tell through my daughter through a fasting schedule. But what I can tell you is that, that during my daughter's eating schedule, she eats about like every other 17 year old kid on the planet. Yeah, some days it's a salad and she looks like a dainty lady and Downton Abbey. And other days. She's like, I need nachos and cheese. And I was like, Okay, and then you end up at some like fast food place and she's dipping nachos into a giant vat of what I don't even know what it is. They say it's case. Oh, but I mean, come on. What does that even mean? But, but so she eats sort of, you know, off and on like that, but her weight is very stable. That's good. Yeah. And a lot of times her age as she gets older. No, no, I know. But but but I'm just saying that. I also know children her age that don't eat on a fasting schedule and mix stuff like that in and they don't have the amount of success. She also exercises and You know, you know she, I don't want to paint her as a babysitter. She's a, I would call her an American eater, right. But if there's a more healthy side to that she's, she's off to that side a little bit. That's gonna show snack on carrots.

Gin Stephens 40:15
Right? Oh, that's good. Yeah, getting getting in the vegetables. That's important. You know, I, I was raised, you know, during the time when we just thought if you just took a vitamin, it'd be fine. You know, who needs to eat vegetables, take your vitamins. And so I've had to learn a lot about food. I have a new book coming out, called clean ish. It's coming out on January of 2020. It's available for pre order now. But it really you know, it's I was doing research for that book. It really helped me see, oh, gosh, we need more than just that vitamin pill. You know, we need to nourish our bodies with the, you know, fruits and vegetables. And so I'm making even more of an effort than I was before I eat the rainbow. Not the Skittles, but a real rainbow Rainbow.

Scott Benner 41:02
Well, I tell people all the time that you know, you can, you can figure out how to use insulin for almost anything. But just because you know how to Bolus for Fruity Pebbles doesn't mean you should have them every day. Right? You know, right. And that eating less processed food. Also, I bring it up here a lot, Jen, I cut out oils. And it made a big difference in my life.

Gin Stephens 41:25
Oh, yeah. Those inflammatory oils? Really. I mean, I have a co host on the intermittent fasting podcast. And she's been talking about those for a long time. And I was like, Yeah, yeah, blah, blah, blah. I don't want to hear about that. But when I started really digging into the science, she was right that 70 of those seed oils that are the modern oils are just not good for us. So I picked the olive oil at home. You know, an avocado oil is also a better choice.

Scott Benner 41:55
All I have is I only use cold pressed, not processed olive oil. That's the only thing it's in the house with the exception if I want to be honest for a second, there is a small can of canola oil, which is not I found not good. But I needed to pop popcorn. And other than that it has no use in our life. I can't drink. Yeah. So and popcorn is a thing around here. So and I make it like it's 1948 in a pot with a lid, you know? Yeah, and put real butter on it. Oh, you're gonna have popcorn? I don't understand going halfway.

Gin Stephens 42:30
No butter and salt. That's delicious. But But yeah, ultra processed foods are a problem. You know, I really think if we could, if we could do cheap things for the world, everyone stopped eating ultra processed foods. And when we stopped drinking all these garbage beverages, which really actually, point one would take care of because, you know, you go to the beverage aisle of any grocery store mega Mart, Costco anywhere, be that right? There is so many of our health problems, everything. We've got artificial flavors, sweeteners. It's just It's terrible. But if we all just started eating real food,

Scott Benner 43:05
I think the health of the world would just be changed, just boom like that. So the people who listened to the show mostly probably know that a number of weeks ago, I had to go, you'll probably enjoy this as a person as a podcast. My son had to go from the east coast to the west coast. And he had to stay there for five weeks to work out. He's training for a baseball thing. And the first week he was going to be there. We didn't have lodging for him. And I was going to be with him the first week and we just couldn't set up lodging. And a listener of the show put us up in their house for a week. Which I know even probably sounds crazy to you. But I had

Gin Stephens 43:45
no it does not sound crazy to me because I've had events with my community we've on cruises, and so Yeah, no kidding. It's free. Free COVID

Scott Benner 43:54
so the reason I'm telling you this is because my son and I lived with this, this beautiful family for a week. But they don't drink anything but water. Yeah, and by the time we were there five or six days, I started looking in the mirror and thinking like I'm losing weight. Yeah, but they eat more than I do. And so I was eating on their schedule not like times a day but like they have big they have a big meal every night for dinner like kind of thing like their nights I don't eat very much and things like that. And I was like losing weight really quickly. Right so I got home and I said to my wife I was like can we make one small change? There's always Snapple in the house diet snap, I was like, Can we stop buying that? Oh,

Gin Stephens 44:35
yeah, that's that. Yep. I would absolutely not drink that. Just drink water. Really? I really think if every person whether you're fasting or not only drank plain water with no flavors added black coffee, plain tea, don't add anything to it. I think the health of the world would just blossom he amazing. Yeah.

Scott Benner 44:53
Well, so then I got a little I got a little sneaky. And I was like well let me like try to make this a little better for the people in the house and I brought in like a bubbly water, but it has a flavor in it. Yeah. And I'm not losing weight the way I did when I was at those people's houses,

Gin Stephens 45:06
I promise you stick to the stick to the unflavored. The plain like I have, you know, the lucky boy in the blue can. That's unflavored. Okay, I'll drink that. I also like sanpellegrino mineral water in a flavor added. You know, I like the bubbles. How about that?

Scott Benner 45:22
I just all occurred to me as you were talking, honestly, over the last 15 minutes. I was like, Oh, I cut out the Snapple. Yeah, didn't replace it with just pure water. How about that? Yeah.

Gin Stephens 45:32
And even you know, forget about what I talked about before with the Alec pays insulin response, you know, then the diet sweetener, or the artificial sweeteners affect our gut microbiome in a negative way. We're learning more about that. And so much of our health stems from the gut, you know, even like what your glycaemic responses, it's related to what lives in your gut. So, you know, we want to encourage a healthy population in our gut and they thrive on the real foods, and the ultra processed foods cultivate an entirely different gut microbiome, that it's going to lead you towards, you know, unhealthy outcomes. Will you see that over and over and over? Every study confirms that there's never been a study that shows that ultra processed foods lead to better health outcome. Over time, two things

Scott Benner 46:21
come to mind at once. I had a really beautiful doctor on and she talked about just thyroid stuff, because right, autoimmune things kind of travel in packs. So if you have type one, you might have a thyroid, you might have celiac, like there's other things that would pop up and they'd at least be in the family. So I add them into the show. And she was talking about gut health. And she's like, it's one of those things we can't really quantify yet the way we want to. But there's something there. And it's really important.

Gin Stephens 46:51
It really is. I'm following a researcher. His name is Dr. Tim Spector. He's out of UK, the UK and he is doing a lot of work with personalized nutrition right now. And you know, he's studied identical twins and a lot of genetic research, but he's really focused on the gut now. And it's just astonishing how important it is.

Scott Benner 47:11
Well, I don't know how much this connects. But I told you, I stopped I took all the other oils out of my life, which means now I won't eat something that's deep fried, you know, you know, that kind of stuff. But we ended up in a, you know, one of our like, kind of local bar restaurants recently. And I just stayed away from things that were fried. But then someone didn't finish their chicken wings. And I had a couple of them. And I recognize that I'm sorry if this is too much information for people, but I recognized after I ate them, I am now on a countdown to need to be near a bathroom. Because my stomach is not accustomed to the oil anymore.

Gin Stephens 47:50
That's true. I went You know, you're at the beach with my family. We went to my dad really wanted to go to a seafood buffet. And I was like, Okay, well fine. Keep the dad happy. And so we had the whole family and we went and you know everything there was fraud, pretty much and the crab legs dipping them in that fake butter. It was you know, not the kind of food I would normally eat. But you're right. The next day I was in the bathroom more than normal. Yeah, it was that food and then I was so puffy, I felt inflamed. But you know, I'm, as I talked about in my new book title, clean ish, I'm clean ish. I'm not, you know, obsessive, like gonna sit there with my family and refuse to eat because this is not what I normally eat. Or, you know, go munching just, you know, Iceberg lettuce off the salad bar. I was like, Okay, this is not what I do normally, but I'm going to, I'm going to eat this food and it'll be okay.

Scott Benner 48:39
I'm learning a lot from you. Because you and I are really similar except I didn't stick to the intermittent fasting. I I'm, I'm ish around it like I'm not your intermittent fasting ish. I'm not Yeah, I'm not eating after dark kind of things. But I am eating earlier in the day than I should be. But I was gonna say about the ish part this weekend coming up, July 4, right. And we're getting together at my mother in law's house for the first time in a long time. And I said, Well, I'm gonna bring a pizza oven. I'll make pizzas but I'm gonna make the dough from hand like like actually from scratch. I'll use double zero, like finely milled flour, which believe it or not, impacts me differently than buying like flowers that are milled the American way. I do believe that. Yeah. super interesting. And so when you come down to it with this one that being is the flour the dough is going to be nothing more than flour, salt, Eastern water, and then I will spend a little extra money to put a higher quality cheese on it. Right and and you know, a couple of toppings they'll be like mushrooms they have some might be a little sausage for somebody that's really going to be it and my body will process that pizza. No problem.

Gin Stephens 49:47
Absolutely. You're so right that I actually know my own wheat into flour on occasion and, and bake from Super scratch and it's just such a different experience that really makes a huge difference. You know when people are like a pizza is so bad for you? Well, not not if you're making it like this, right? I mean, if I ordered like a Pizza Hut pizza with Lord knows what they even put on that right? I

Scott Benner 50:10
know exactly what I'm thinking like I thinking of that pizza right now building it in my head. And I know every base ingredient that's in there and I mean down to the fact that it's only that thing that's in there, there's nothing right involved in it. And it's easier on my system.

Gin Stephens 50:25
100% it really is astonishing. So, you know, that's the thing you can eat all the foods you love. I mean, I eat potatoes all the time. But you know, when I when I make them at home, I'll cut a potato up, toss it in olive oil, throw it in the oven, roast it, and it's like Kevin frost, but you know, roasted in my oven. Yeah. And I don't feel bad. However, the first night I was at the beach when I drove here. I went over to the little beach bar because I always like to go there one time and I had a burger and fries and I felt like garbage. Yeah, there's got to be my stomach. Like why did I need these fries with me? My stomach hurt? Why did I do it?

Scott Benner 51:01
Jim, do you? Do you ever talk about that on the on your show? Do you ever think about it your personal life? Like I know everything you've said today makes 100% sense to me. I've seen it happen in my own life. Why will later today I walk past the candy dish and put a gumdrop in my mouth? Like Why? What happened to me when I was little Jen?

Gin Stephens 51:22
Because we're humans, and you know, we, we were not living the life of perfection, right? It's not easy to do that. And it doesn't feel good. And but you do start like I've gotten better at the, you know, thinking about how will I feel later if I have that? Do I really want to go through that like like I've gone through recently, and we're going through menopause. alcohol affects me more dramatically now than it used to. So you're used to every night at the beach? Definitely, I would have at least a couple glasses of wine. But I don't sleep as well when I drink alcohol. So now I'm like you're at the beach not drinking anything. Yeah. Because I want to feel I want to sleep well. And I want to wake up and feel refreshed. So you know, we just start to prioritize wanting to feel good. I feel

Scott Benner 52:06
like I'm gonna mature right when I die. And then it's gonna be late. Like, you know, like, what my wife said the other day, like, they were out shopping my wife and my daughter, and they found this little restaurant and they were like, come over. So I came, and I'm eating and I'm all the entire time eating all I can think is this isn't gonna work out. I then I couldn't sleep that night. Yeah, I was up at like four in the morning awake. And like, I still felt like I was processing my dinner that I had nine hours before that. And it just was I all I could think when I was laying there is like, you're pretty bright guy. Like, when are you going to like, stop?

Gin Stephens 52:40
Well, yeah, we can be slow learners, because, you know, food is a sensory experience. And there's so much more to it than just what you're putting in your mouth. If you're there with your family, and you have these feelings associated with it. And, you know, like, like me and that beach bar, you know, I come to the beach, the first thing I do is head over to the beach bar and have a burger. My wife will say, you know, if I didn't have the fries, I would have felt Okay, I just know that. Yeah, in the next time,

Scott Benner 53:06
I won't order the fries. So it really is about some like real like memories that just the food like relates to an obviously foods relatable to memories. It's when it's when it happens too frequently, that it ends up being unhealthy for you like my wife, say, if I'm at a movie, and there's not popcorn, I might as well not be at the movie. And I don't understand that. But obviously there's a way she grew up that that just that makes a movie for her. Yeah, again. Oh, yeah. That's interesting. It really is. I really I genuinely appreciate you doing this. But I don't want to miss anything. And like I said, I feel like a bit of a neophyte here. But do you think we covered? Did you if if somebody listened back to this? Will they understand intermittent fasting enough to understand if they wanted to know more about it?

Gin Stephens 53:50
I think so you really It's not scary. It just sounds scary. And there's there's a saying I didn't make it up. I don't even know where it originated. But your diets are easy and contemplation and hard and execution. We all know that from diets we tried before. Well, intermittent fasting is the exact opposite. It's hard and contemplation, but easy and execution. You know, you're it sounds like it's going to be so hard and you're going to you know, be starving and hangry. But once your body adjusts, it is so much easier than trying to diet all the time or eat frequent small meals. It frees up your mind to do other things. You have great sustained energy. And you're like, you know, why have I not always eaten this way? In fact, one of the things I hear from people all the time, is that, you know, this is how I used to eat when I was a teenager or when I went to college, but then everybody said you got to eat breakfast. It's the most important meal of the day. So I forced myself to eat it. So I would be quite healthy. And that's when my problems all started that a lot of people really look back to that and they're like or you know, I had a grandma and she just would sit for coffee all morning and then She had a tiny little lunch and a dinner with Grandpa and she was healthy until she died at age 95. And so, you know, everybody's got, you know, stories like that.

Scott Benner 55:09
You make me think that of something I said to my wife was like, we were healthier when we had less money. And I, yeah, and the money is about being able to afford food and end up in this context and being able to have something around always that you mean to have, like having options in your refrigerator.

Gin Stephens 55:28
Well, yeah. And we've also had been trained to fear hunger, like, you better have a snack in your purse in case you're like out shopping and you need to eat something real quick.

Scott Benner 55:36
I have to agree with what you just said before. And I'll tell you, I'm motivated to do this and stick to it better because I, after a couple of days, had to almost remind myself to start eating at noon. Right. And, and I did feel terrific. I will be honest, my back.

Gin Stephens 55:53
Start eating at noon. You know, are Would you like to lose a few pounds or you feel like you're exactly where you'd like today?

Scott Benner 55:58
Oh, you're delightful. No, I should lose a few pounds.

Gin Stephens 56:05
If you would like to lose a few pounds, and maybe you don't open your window till three. You know you have a little snack and then later a great dinner.

Scott Benner 56:14
Okay, listen, I'm up for doing something. I'm 50 gin in a couple of weeks. And I do have that underlying fear that I'm going to tip over some edge that I can't crawl back over again. Well, when is your birthday? July 12. Damn July 23. Happy birthday. My daughter's the 22nd. Okay, yeah. Awesome. Almost birthday twin. Yeah, we're so close. Close enough. Well, I let me first say I really appreciate this. And I will absolutely put links to your books in the show notes. And and when I do an intro, I'll I'll I'll do a nice, awesome buttoning

Gin Stephens 56:50
here. And I think you'll you'll enjoy clean ish. I know that you said you don't read but listen to I'll be recording the audio eventually. It'll be out at the same time. It'll be out in January as well. I just haven't recorded it yet. But you listen to parts of fast paced repeat on audio. And when clean ish comes out. It really I learned so many things. You I thought I knew a lot. But as I was researching, I learned so much more. And it really just inspired me the subtitle is eat mostly clean, live mainly clean, and unlock your body's natural ability to self clean, and you know, talk all about our toxic load and even the things we're putting on our bodies and how that affects us. We're just in a different kind of world now than you know, 100 200 years ago.

Scott Benner 57:33
Now I agree. You just said I'm gonna let you go about put on your body's meaning of like hand creams and stuff like oh, yeah, effect. Yeah.

Gin Stephens 57:39
Yeah, it all you know, goes through the skin, we know that it does, you know, because everybody's seen someone use a therapeutic patch for something or other. It's a great medication delivery system. So if if medications can be delivered through patches than what you put on your skin is delivered in the exact same way. So you know, our toxic loads are just crazy these days, and babies are born with toxins in their cord blood. Then we go down this rabbit hole forever. But it really what I learned was shocking to me, even though I thought I knew a lot. And it really inspired me to make a difference with you know, like I said, I'm clean ish, but I make changes where it wherever I can. So I can still live a life where if I want to go to the beach bar and have fries I can and still be healthy. The fasting helps with that with the clean and self cleaning that happens during the fasted state. But there's other things but fruits and vegetables help our bodies self clean to Well,

Scott Benner 58:37
I've really enjoyed this.

First, let me thank Jen for coming on the show and sharing all of her knowledge about intermittent fasting. For anyone who cares on the day this episode comes out and I don't know what the date is, you're gonna have to look at the calendar. Actually, that won't help you because if you look at it the day after it comes out. Anyway, I think it's about like the end of July 2021. I'm going to start an intermittent fasting lifestyle. I'm going to start it back up again. And I'm going to stick with it for at least 30 days. So if you're on the private Facebook group, I'll be reporting there about it. So I'm using this to hold myself accountable. The first 30 days goes well, I'll extend it

Oh, you might not know where the private Facebook group is. It's called Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes. I think there's a link in the show notes if there's not definitely you can get to it through Juicebox Podcast comm or just searching Juicebox Podcast Type One Diabetes on Facebook. Don't forget to check Jen out. She's got like she said three podcasts I said to at the beginning but I think it's three. She's got a ton of great books. They're all available on I'm on what they call the amazon.com. You can head over there and just type in her name Jin Stevens it's with a Ph. I could do it with you real quick. You people are so needy Hold on a second. I know no one asked ci g i n s t e p h e n s and then when you hit enter, it's all your keyboard. pops right up all of her books, fast feast repeat. She wasn't wrong. It's the best seller and others don't delay living in intermittent fasting lifestyle clean ish. Wow. She's prolific this Jen Stevens. Now if you go to Juicebox Podcast calm and do a little scrolling down. You'll see all of the how we eat series right there. Vegan carnivore plant based gluten free. Low Carb Bernstein fodmap keto flexitarian. Today, intermittent fasting, and there are more coming. People have all different kinds of ways they eat. And I find each and every one of them interesting. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Juicebox Podcast. Thank you for sharing the show with friends, doctors, thank you for sharing it with your patients patients. Thank you for sharing it with your doctors. You guys are terrific. I couldn't do this without you. All the great ratings and reviews and emails and messages. They mean the world to me. I'll be back very soon with another episode of the Juicebox Podcast.