#1412 Life Coach: Anonymous Female
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A woman in her 50s (anonymous T1D mom) seeks advice from Scott on leaving a psychologically abusive relationship.
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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.
Scott Benner 0:00
Friends, we're all back together for the next episode of The Juicebox Podcast. Welcome.
I'm hoping that this episode becomes a series. I have a couple recorded already, but this is my first one. I asked people to reach out if they wanted a life coach. And to be perfectly honest with you, I was being sort of light hearted about it, but then I got a real request. Today's episode is with a woman in her 50s who wishes to remain anonymous. She knows about me because she has a child with type one diabetes, but this episode is not about that at all. This is about being in a psychologically abusive relationship that she liked to get out of, and she was looking for advice. The reasons that she came to me are revealed within if you're looking for a pretend life coach who has a podcast, reach out to me through my website. It doesn't have to be about a serious matter. It could be about anything. Nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. When you place your first order for ag one with my link, you'll get five free travel packs and a free year supply of vitamin D drink. Ag one.com/juice, box. You
this episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the contour next gen blood glucose meter. Learn more and get started today at contour next.com/juice box. Make better sleep your New Year's resolution with cozy Earth best selling bedding, because quality sleep is essential for managing your health. Learn more at cozy earth.com and don't forget to use the offer code juice box at checkout to save 40% off of your entire order. Today's guest is going to remain anonymous, so we're not going to use any kind of names, and we're going to be pretty vague about other things that could be identifying. But why don't you tell me a little bit about yourself as much as you're comfortable, and then we'll get into your
Anonymous Female Speaker 2:14
story. Okay, I am a longtime podcast listener, Juicebox Podcast. I'm the mother of a type one, and that's how I found the podcast. And when Scott proposed this new series where he was going to coach us, I thought this would be a great opportunity for me to get some wisdom from someone I respect, and to bring some attention to the kind of situation I'm in, which is, to be more specific, I am In a long term relationship that has become emotionally and psychologically abusive, and I I need to get out of this situation and heal.
Scott Benner 3:12
Okay, let's see what we can figure out. So we're going to keep you just so people know your your voice is going to be changed, like when you listen back to this, you won't recognize it too. So if anybody is listening right now and they think, Oh, I know who this is, you don't you just know what your voice sounds like when it's changed to sound like something else. Let's figure out a little bit about yourself so you're married, yeah, okay, for a long time, like more than a decade, more than two decades,
Anonymous Female Speaker 3:41
more than two decades we've been together more than three decades, like 35 years.
Scott Benner 3:47
Wow. Okay, and you have one child with diabetes? Do you have other children? You don't have to tell me how many, but do you have other children as well? No, no one child. Okay, give me a little like, like flavor. I guess, of these 30 years, you're having problems now, did they start immediately, or are they more recent? How would you describe your relationship up until now?
Anonymous Female Speaker 4:11
I would say that the situation has escalated in the last three to four years, and we can get into what's happened since that has led to this. But as I'm going through the process of reflecting back and wondering to myself, why didn't I see these things, I can recall what should have been red flags, but at the time, I was young and naive.
Scott Benner 4:44
What do you think some of them are like? Looking back, I would
Anonymous Female Speaker 4:48
categorize them as little points of exerting control. Particular incident that comes to mind when we first started dating, we were. Were at the supermarket, grocery shopping. We we didn't live together. At that time. I was an independent person. We met in college. I was independent. He was independent. We happened to go grocery shopping together. So I was gonna buy my own groceries, and he would buy his own groceries. That was the way I'd always done it, the way I assumed. But for some reason, he insisted on buying my groceries, I guess too, at the time it, it seemed like an act of kindness, but I remember he started taking the groceries out of my basket and putting it into his and I took them back. And I kind of laughed about it, like it was a light moment. And I just remember him taking them back. Then I take them back. I thought it was kind of funny, but then he said, God, you're annoying. And for some reason, that particular moment has stuck with me all these years. And I know that there were issues from the beginning, but I was just too I love to see. How did
Scott Benner 6:18
that strike you then like the god, you're annoying. Did you think it was playful, like, I'm trying to help you and you won't let me help you? Or did you see it as more like attacking of yourself at that point? And if so, then I guess, start there. Like, how did you see it in the moment? Do you recall it
Unknown Speaker 6:40
was more the latter. The tone of voice, the facial expression, which stick in my mind, were not playful.
Scott Benner 6:50
Did you see him treat other people that way? No,
Anonymous Female Speaker 6:52
you know, as we got closer to the present, that's one of the things I came to understand, is that behind closed doors was a different person than when we're out and about or when
Scott Benner 7:07
other people are around. How was he in front of his family?
Anonymous Female Speaker 7:13
Oh, caring, yeah, caring, protective, everything you would hope for and boyfriend, eventually, husband, definitely and
Scott Benner 7:25
towards his parents and his siblings, if he had any same No, oh, how
Anonymous Female Speaker 7:31
does he treat them? Yeah, I would say that there are times when he sort of lashes out at them or criticizes some of them, not all of them. Oh, ones whose life choices he disapproves of.
Scott Benner 7:49
Okay, so he's judgmental about the people he disagrees with in his family. Very gotcha, and that has been very consistent the entire time,
Anonymous Female Speaker 7:59
yes, from when we were dating till now. Yeah,
Scott Benner 8:03
and had that bothered you when you were younger? Or did you not kind of rub up against it back then,
Anonymous Female Speaker 8:10
I took his word for it, because I didn't know them. I hadn't met them or been around them much. I mean, when I finally met them, it was just sort of limited in big family gatherings. So it's not like I had time to have intimate conversations and really get to know them and and at the time we we lived kind of far away, so family gathering gatherings were few and far between, so I really didn't get to know them on my own. I depended on what he was telling me, and I trusted his judgment at that time. Okay,
Scott Benner 8:51
did you find yourself like, getting on his team, like, if he was harsh on people? Did you find yourself being like, yeah, they do suck. Or, how did you handle that if you didn't like get on board?
Anonymous Female Speaker 9:03
I'm embarrassed to say that. Yes, I went along with what he was saying, Not ever when we were around those people, but when we were in our apartment or wherever. And he made some kind of comment, I feel like, oh, gosh, that's that's not right, that's not good.
Scott Benner 9:27
So it starts off like that. That's kind of the entry. And how long are you together before you get married? A while, a while, like five years, more, less, more, more than five years. Okay? And what's the impetus behind that? I guess, like, did you want to get married? And he didn't. Vice versa. Did nobody ever bring it up, I
Anonymous Female Speaker 9:49
wanted to get married. He never said, No, I don't want to get married. But it was, I don't even remember the exact excuses, but. I was just like being strung along. I mean, I made very clear that I wanted to get married, but I don't know I stayed. I thought I was in love with a great person. I assume that the hiccups and ups and downs were natural part of any relationship. And the thing to do when you love someone is you love all of them, The Rose and the thorns and All
Scott Benner 10:32
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Anonymous Female Speaker 12:24
No, no. And I would say to parents out there who are thinking that that's a protective mechanism to not let your kids date when they're under your roof, it's not wise give them an opportunity to learn about themselves in a relationship, so that they can recognize when someone else is valuing them for who they are and not just what they bring to the table
Scott Benner 12:54
when he stretches out the courtship process while you've said, like, I'd like to get married, and you're getting older, and I mean If you met in college, and you mean you were, were you in your 20s, so when you got married, or were you into your 30s and to my 30s? Okay, so he strung this out for a long time. And is there a moment during that where you think, Oh, God, I did the wrong thing, but like, now I'm like, pot committed this is it like? What am I going to do?
Anonymous Female Speaker 13:22
I did feel stuck. I felt like I didn't know how to start over. And at that time, we were living somewhere where I had no family, so I didn't know where to go. It comes back to having no experience on my own, and even though I had a pretty important job and I felt confident at work, maybe importance the wrong word, but I had a job with a lot of responsibility, and I felt confident, and I knew my bosses believed in me and I was being promoted somehow at home, my mindset was just frozen and different, like
Scott Benner 14:10
you were a teenager. Still, yes, yeah. Do you think in that period of time he was aware of the the control aspects that he had like, do you think he was not marrying you on purpose to keep you in flux? Do you think did he move you away from family, or did that just happen?
Anonymous Female Speaker 14:29
He didn't say, you know, we're going to move now. It's never that explicit. It's it's more subtle, and that's one of the things that's one of the reasons I'm doing this interview, is it's not so easily recognizable as more over types of control, where it's like, you're gonna do this or else, it's more subtle, like, oh yeah. Want to pursue my career over here, and you can come along, you know that kind of thing,
Scott Benner 15:07
yeah. Can I ask, like, I'm gonna play devil's advocate here for a minute, like, do you think that if you were in a different part of your life or a different person, that you would have resisted it because you've had a long time to think about this, right? Like, you've been thinking about this forever? Am I right? Like, the last five Yeah, for a long time. Yeah, right. So like you've been going over this in your mind and trying to figure out where you went wrong, and yeah, it has there been a point in time where you've ever thought to yourself, like, I have to take responsibility here, like I could have done something and I didn't. Or do you see, I'm not saying that you should have I'm asking you, like, what your assessment of it is, Do
Anonymous Female Speaker 15:44
I have any blame or culpability? Of course, you know I, I was an adult, but I was a very inexperienced adult in matters of the heart, and I didn't feel like I could speak to anybody about this or learn about what I was going through. Nowadays, there's so much information out there, and that is, that's how I got to this point. Is social media, somehow those algorithms are so smart. Started putting little things in my feed about these kinds of relationships, and I watch one, and then all of a sudden, 50% my feed is like this. So I start watching more, learning more, and like this haze or cloud, just like lifts, because I finally have the vocabulary and the understanding to step out of the situation emotion, step out emotionally and look at it objectively, and see What has been happening when you're in deep, emotionally deep, I don't know, like, it's like the other part of your brain, the thinking part, the logic part, gets impaired. Yeah.
Scott Benner 17:09
Have you heard people say my algorithm figured out I was gay before I knew? Yeah, yeah, that kind of stuff, right? Yeah, yeah. So your algorithm figured out that you weren't happy or that you were being controlled by a partner or something like that, and started feeding you more stuff. You started seeing people speak openly the way you're speaking about it now, and you you're like, oh god, that's me. Like, I recognize myself in these people's stories. Absolutely, yeah. Were you ever afraid that that wasn't you, but it offered an explanation, so you would just go with it. How do you fact check that to make sure you're you know, I'm saying, Does that make sense?
Anonymous Female Speaker 17:53
It just makes sense. This the information I was seeing on social media. Part of it, yes, part of it was individuals like me speaking about their personal experiences, but the greater majority of it was PhD psychologists who have clients in this kind of situation, who have a lot of experience, who've written books about it, who've researched it. They have YouTube channels and books and practices where they specialize. This is the niche. And when those people are talking about certain things and defining certain things, describing experiences, and it's all clicking in my head, like, wow, yeah, this person could I have no idea who this is. They have no idea who I am, but they could be describing my life right now,
Scott Benner 18:45
right? Do you think your husband? Does he know this stuff about himself? Like, no, consciously, he's not aware of it. Like, if you turn to him today and said, Hey, I'm leaving. Here's the reasons why he'd be blindsided by that. Yes, and so have you brought this up to him in the past, and he's ignored it, or have you never said anything?
Anonymous Female Speaker 19:07
We have had discussions, arguments, whatever you want to call it, about other things, like more specific thing, whereas, like this, I call, like a higher level meta kind of thing. And it's clear to me, and by the way, our our t1 also has similar experiences,
Scott Benner 19:31
experiences that they've brought to you, or experiences that you've witnessed, and you've said, Oh, that happens to me with their father too.
Anonymous Female Speaker 19:38
Both, both, so we've all been in the house when something happens between them, and I'm hearing it with my own ears, or the kid is out with my husband, and the kid calls me like this, and this is happening, and I don't know. How to Deal with it. And this is really frustrating. He never listens. They used to say that all the time. He never listens. And that is also my experience from in your previous question, Have I talked about this before with him? I've tried having adult, mature, calm discussions. I don't think there's a lot of capacity to receive criticism and to self reflect. Why do you think? Why do I think? Yeah,
Scott Benner 20:30
I mean, you've, you've had to have diagnosed them and and dissected him over the years, like, Why do you think he can't?
Anonymous Female Speaker 20:37
I actually think he might be on the spectrum, and how they say that, I think that's part of the reason I have kind of stuck around, because I would make excuses for just the general behavior, the general lack of I think it's a lack of empathy and understanding, ability to self reflect. I'm obviously, I'm nowhere, anywhere, trained in anything like that.
Scott Benner 21:08
Well, we have that in common, because I am completely untrained in this. I want to make this is probably a good time to point this out. I have no certificate, I have no training, I have no education. I had this idea the other day, somebody was talking to me and said, you know, you could be a life coach. And I laughed about it, because, I mean, and no offense to life coaches, but it doesn't seem like a real thing to me. I know it is, like, don't get me wrong, like, I understand that there are people who need help, like, you know, formulating direction, and I understand that, like, I'm not, I'm not teasing anybody. It just seems like one of those things, like, I'm a little older, you know what I mean? It feels a little, a little hocus pocus E, but I thought they'd be fun conversations if people wanted to come on and, you know, people who were connected with diabetes and talk about other ideas. And I could whip out some of my, you know, 1970s ideas that I think are sometimes valuable. And you reached out. A number of people actually reached out. It's awesome, but, yeah, I just want to point out I have no training. I should not be doing this. This is not, uh, this is not legally binding. Can I take a right turn for just one second before we get back to it? Yeah, what has happened between you and I through this, this medium, that this actually seemed like a good idea to you. Well, I
Anonymous Female Speaker 22:23
think that a coach, whatever training they have, they have, but it comes down to being a good listener, a thoughtful person who has seen a lot of life and who can communicate to the person they're coaching ideas in a very digestible manner. And the Juicebox Podcast is, is that to perfection?
Scott Benner 22:52
Thank you. I'm gonna say I'm a life coach. I'm gonna have a T shirt made. Never mind you've talked me into it. You're sweet. I really appreciate you saying that I wanted to understand like so that happened to you or for you from me, through diabetes conversations,
Anonymous Female Speaker 23:10
absolutely, you know, a diagnosis. I didn't know where to turn for information at the very start, we were in the ICU, but I knew that I loved listening to podcasts, that I was the longtime podcast listener, and I knew there was a podcast about every subject on Earth. So I just opened my app and there's like, there's got to be a diabetes podcast. Found the Juicebox Podcast, and I probably tried listening to one or two before, but upon listening, it's it's just immediately apparent that you have a gift for talking with people and using their stories to educate this is gonna come off like crazy when I say this, but please, I'm a person of faith, and it's the same technique that Jesus used with parables. Certain things are just more digestible and more memorable when you hear them through the art of storytelling, whether your storytelling in a format like This American Life podcast where you storytelling in a Q A interview format, by knowing how to bring out what questions to ask to bring out the person's story. And I knew that I could listen to the Juicebox Podcast over and over and not get tired of it and learn learn so much from it that was immediately apparent because I listened to other podcasts when they're very pedantic, just like instructional, it's so boring and nothing sticks.
Scott Benner 24:53
Yeah, I agree with that part. I can't I mean, I don't understand when people put content out like that. It's just like. Uh, check boxes. Go forward. No personality. I mean, listen, you said a lot of words there. What I just heard, basically, was Jesus like, so I'm gonna go with that. Um, I'm gonna change my life. Coach, first of all that you're, you're lovely. I appreciate that and, and I am kidding for anybody who would imagine that I'm not, I think you're right. I think that I don't know why it occurs to me this way, right? I have no idea. I don't I don't know how I became who I am, or why I respond the way I do, or think the things I think or say the things I say. But to listen to you thoughtfully break it apart. It's so funny, because earlier you said my social media fed me, you know, psychologist talking about my situation, and I thought, Oh, they're describing me. And when you described what makes good storytelling, I thought, oh, that person is describing me, but I never would describe myself that way. It's interesting, isn't it? Like, if you asked me, like, you've, you've listened for a while, so, you know, like, if you ask me what the podcast is, I'm the least articulate about what it is, because I don't, I'm just doing the thing that occurs to me to do. But then when you described it, I was like, Oh, I do that, but not on purpose. Maybe that's why it works. I don't know. Anyway, that's that is really nice of you. I didn't I didn't expect all that, but I'm definitely going to take it and say thank you. I asked you if you thought he was cognizant of who he was, because you do not want to be in a situation where you spring this on him, because it's going to turn into anger, because you're going to be this person with very reasonable, measured, time, honored, you know, experiences, and you're going to say, I don't want to do this anymore. I'm going to stop doing this now, and what you're going to get back is anger. Then the way you're being treated unfairly is just going to shift, like you're going to trade the controlling part for the anger part. I don't want that for you, but I don't know if there's a way to avoid that or not. And it sounds like you've tried to explain a number of times what your problems are, and he doesn't seem receptive. Doesn't matter, by the way, if he's on the spectrum or not, like, whatever it is, he's he's unreceptive to your Hey, listen, this is happening. Explanations. I don't want this to happen. We can't do this. You can't treat the kid this way, you know, etc. You're in a bad spot, like, for sure. Can I ask you, do you have love left?
Anonymous Female Speaker 27:38
Love, not the way you're probably thinking of it. When you ask that question, I try to, and this is one of my problems, is I try to find the good in people. I even, even in this situation, for example, he, he's always been a good provider. We don't live in any or fiance or anything, but I always have had a roof over my head. Food on the table. Kids always been taken care of, so have no complaints.
Scott Benner 28:12
Are you going to be okay trading one sadness for a different one? I think you can expect that by giving away your problem, you're going to be happy, but I think that what I see most people do is they give away their problem and they trade it for a different problem. And I'm not saying you should stay because the next thing is not going to be fun either, but I do think it's worth being aware that in the interim, at least, this is not going to be fun like and it might be a number of years of not fun, you know, lawyers and arguments and splitting the kid and one person having control the diabetes on the kid one time, and the other one the next time. And, you know, the first time you see a blood sugar that's crazy, and you think, Oh, I can't call or text because the lawyer says I'm not allowed to, or whatever it's going to end up being. It's tough because this isn't fixable. You don't think this is fixable, right?
Anonymous Female Speaker 29:09
No, right. No, I don't, but I do want to make you aware of two other important things. So one is the kid is a legal adult, now off at college. Okay, so thank you Juicebox. Thank you loop community. Kid is doing great at college. Awesome. What led to at the beginning of this conversation, I had mentioned that things had escalated in the last few years, so the situation which has also kept me here is that few years ago, I was diagnosed with cancer.
Scott Benner 29:50
Oh, my God, I didn't know
Anonymous Female Speaker 29:52
okay, and the treatment kept me alive. Thank God. But. The side effects were somewhat debilitating. I am officially disabled, and for me, what that looks like is constant fatigue. I need I need helpers to help me with the activities of daily living. So showering, changing my clothes, I can feed myself, but like preparing meals, things like that, are a little harder. And I'm not only dependent financially, I'm very dependent, and that has kept me here, and
Scott Benner 30:34
he's helping you with those things, or he's paying for services
Anonymous Female Speaker 30:38
he's paying, and I am grateful for that. He's made clear that this is all too much, which I absolutely acknowledge being having your spouse severely ill, and then going from an active person who used to take care of the household, the groceries, the laundry, driving the kid around, if someone who went from that to being bedridden for quite some time. I can walk now, but not far I don't drive. So I need people to help me. He's made very clear that that's not his role, actually helping me with day to day things I'm not not for him. So
Scott Benner 31:32
you're not having a lot of contact. Then none. Sorry. When did you stop having sex? How long ago? I
Anonymous Female Speaker 31:40
can't remember a decade. Probably
Scott Benner 31:45
Gotcha. So you're not even like good roommates, like you're not even he's not even like, Hey, let me get that dish for your roommates so you sleep in the same room. Still, no, no, functionally. Did that happen when you got sick and you came back? Or had it happened before that, even before before that. Do you think he cheats? I don't know if you call it cheating in this situation, but do you think he's got like a relationship outside of your marriage,
Anonymous Female Speaker 32:10
not that I'm aware of, and you know, I would say it's not likely i He, to me, is like a rule follower who wants very much to be perceived as the good guy. No people can always surprise you. So if that's what's happening, that's what's happening. I don't have any evidence, and I don't I don't think it's in nature, but I would never say never to anybody if
Scott Benner 32:42
that happened, would you care? I'm so interested if you'd be hurt by it, or if you if it would just seem like it's Tuesday and the newspaper game. I
Anonymous Female Speaker 32:53
don't miss intimacy with Him, actually. Let's not call it intimacy. Let's just call it sex. Don't miss it. It was okay. I'm trying to be kind here. Would
Scott Benner 33:06
you be hurt by it, though, like but would it feel like a betrayal or No, no,
Anonymous Female Speaker 33:11
you know what feels like the greater betrayal is, is to get sick and then feel abandoned.
Scott Benner 33:19
So you guys had split your lives up pretty much before this, but then your illness comes, and it turns things more stark, like things are getting said out loud now that we were just agreeing were happening prior to that. Yes, things
Anonymous Female Speaker 33:34
are definitely getting said out loud there. Let's see, do I describe this without details. Certain things are such the details are so particular, they would be identifying. I like my bedroom a certain way. It's, it's, it's very within normal people. Nothing crazy. It's just a bedroom. The accusation was that this thing that I'm doing to my room is harming the property. Okay, you just have to trust me when I say it's like, totally normal. Okay, everybody does it. I am actually friends with the people who used to live here, so I call them up like, I haven't talked in a while, like, this crazy question for you, I'm in the bedroom that they were in. Did you guys ever do this in in the room? Like, do this to the room, and they're like, Yeah, of course, everybody does that. And I said, Well, did it ever hurt anything in the house to do like, what if they thought it was crazy? Because it is totally crazy. So that night, there was just this big I'll call it an argument. But. It was really one sided, because at that point I stopped being reactive. I realized that when I tried to reason, it just escalated. So I learned that not reacting would at least de escalate, but the things that were being said to me were like, You need to leave. You're damaging the house. I make the rules in this house. This is him saying that kind of stuff. You're
Scott Benner 35:31
making reasonable requests about stuff, and you're being told that it's not your decision. You can't do it, and moreover, it's not okay, because you're ruining the resale value of the home. Yeah, which doesn't appear to be true, as far as you can tell.
Anonymous Female Speaker 35:47
No, yeah. And then other other things are okay. So I mentioned that I'm kind of limited in mobility, so I really don't go anywhere. I can't unless somebody takes me and he doesn't take me anywhere. So I rely on my helpers, my paid helpers, and friends. So I'm pretty isolated, and I know that's not healthy, so I I actively accept when people text me and they're like, Hey, can we come over to see you, please? I'm not talking about having a party and play like one friend. Come over we chat for half an hour, something like that. There have been complaints that this has become like a hotel, like people, complaints about people coming in and out of that house and Google and there's no privacy, and like the day after Thanksgiving, two of my friends dropped off food, like home cooked food, which is nice, because mostly I eat processed food, because I Order from, I ordered whatever frozen food from grocery store gets delivered, and because that's what I can handle, right? I can't I can't cook anymore. So my friends, two friends, separately, they stop by and drop off the food. So they didn't stay if they've got stuff going on with their family. It's the holidays. One was here. I went back and looked at the ring camera. One was here for three minutes because she had brought a bunch of stuff, and she helped me unpack, put in the fridge. The other one was here for, I think it was like 30 seconds. She came in, gave me a hug, handed me a little bag of food, said, Happy Thanksgiving had left. I
Scott Benner 37:40
got a role, yeah. How did he characterize those visits? Where are
Anonymous Female Speaker 37:44
all these people coming over? I can't get any peace and quiet that
Scott Benner 37:51
kind of stuff. Does your friend group know that he's like this, like, Is it obvious at this point, or is he doing a good job of hiding it? He was
Anonymous Female Speaker 38:00
doing a good job of hiding, and so was I, and I recently, so I recently told all my very close, trusted friends, because I did see on one of my social media educational videos that after the first step of acknowledging that you are in this kind of situation, the Next step is to stop hiding and let people know. So I started telling my dear, dear friends and everybody shocked, because I kept up such the pre temps that, yeah, they were, I gotcha, and that's why I want people to hear this, because as a society, we speak a lot about sexual abuse. Did he, whatever? Send the news a lot. There's a physical abuse you can prove, let's say you've got bruises or whatever, emotional, psychological abuse you can't see it, and when the abuser acts so differently in public, you really believe. You come to believe no one would ever believe you if you told them the things that were said and done behind closed doors. So you keep silent to that, and that's what I did. What's
Scott Benner 39:19
your plan moving forward?
Anonymous Female Speaker 39:23
Well, the kids gone. Kid is aware, actually, as I said, they experienced a different kind of, different
Scott Benner 39:33
form of it, yes, yeah. And
Anonymous Female Speaker 39:35
they're like, I'm so happy for your mom that you have finally opened your eyes. I have always wanted you to be treated better, and I think you need to go live your life without all of this, because coming back to my health diagnosis, the stress could literally kill me. I. Good. You probably heard of that, but the Body Keeps the Score. Yeah, yeah. I'll never be able to prove it, but I think the stress of all those years probably, I think there's a good chance it led to my initial diagnosis, and then people had been telling me, but I finally accepted and understood that if I stay in this situation, this toxic situation, my recovery is going to be an uphill battle, because I'm not only battling the physical health situation, the mental stress, it
Scott Benner 40:34
doesn't stop. I was going to say like, you know, I said earlier, you're going to trade one sad thing for another sad thing. But then you you kind of opened up a little more and and told me more of the story. And I don't think I feel that way at this point, like you are alone, but with a force in your home that's making you uncomfortable constantly in a number of different ways. Obviously, it would be much better to be alone without that force. Your child being older, right? Like, and not being like, you're not gonna be passing the child back and forth. There's no like, kind of custody issues there. That's not gonna be a an impactor for you. Are you able to like, what is your goal? Is your goal for him to leave the place you live? Or is it for you to leave that place? Have you thought of how you want that to go. Because
Anonymous Female Speaker 41:22
of my limited mobility, it would be easier if he were to move on, but that doesn't seem to be what
Scott Benner 41:33
will happen. You think he'll defend he'll want the place for himself
Anonymous Female Speaker 41:39
or control of it? Yeah, well,
Scott Benner 41:42
I don't think it's gonna, I mean, I don't think it'll end up working out that way. I think you might be forced, you might be forced to sell it, to split proceeds, if that's a situation, if you own some of it, or all of it, do you have a place to go? Have you worked all this like, how far are you? I'm trying to remember if this is something you brought up to me before we began recording or not, but your plan is to leave, right? So, like, Yeah, is this a short term plan? Like, do you think this is going to happen within three months? It
Anonymous Female Speaker 42:11
depends. It's not easy for me to go apartment hunting.
Scott Benner 42:16
Yeah, no, I hear that. However,
Anonymous Female Speaker 42:20
gosh, I just love my friends. They're like, we'll do it for you. We will, on the weekends, go look at things, and then we'll narrow it down and then dance like two things, two places. And then you can look at those two and
Scott Benner 42:36
figure which one you like, choice. Yeah. Do you have any physical concerns? Do you think he'll like when you tell him? Do you think he'll become violent or extra angry, or anything like that?
Anonymous Female Speaker 42:45
I don't think so. There's never been physical violence or a threat of physical violence. Now, that's too specific. I'll tell you after, but something happened. And I have another friend who's a social worker, I told her, and she's like, that gets very close to and maybe even crosses over to a form of physical abuse you could I don't even know how it works, like you file some sort of complaint with whatever court handles such things, and is
Scott Benner 43:26
that a thing you want to do? Or do you just, what's your pie in the sky? Vibe here, like, what is it you're hoping happens? You're gonna let him know? Hey, listen, I think we both know, you know, we're not really married, so I, you know, it's time to split up. I'd love it if you'd leave if you don't want to, you know, if that's not something you're open to, you know, we're gonna have to make some, some plans to get me a place to live. Obviously, I'm gonna need you to keep covering my medical like, that kind of stuff. Like, I mean, you're like, look, I've got a lawyer. Like, you should get a lawyer. Like, how do you imagine that opening conversation to be
Anonymous Female Speaker 44:05
that sounds about right? I, I have had a free consultation on, you know, a friend of a friend of a friend is handles these kinds of things, and she offered to do phone consultation to help me understand the laws where I am, because my number, I have two major concerns. One is health insurance, because, yeah, the UN the United States system is so screwed up. You
Scott Benner 44:41
definitely can't lose what you have, that's for certain.
Anonymous Female Speaker 44:45
And the second would be housing, because I don't know, it's very expensive, yeah, so
Scott Benner 44:55
do you have that? I mean, does the household have that kind of money? Like you said you had a. A job before, but have you worked since you've been sick? No,
Anonymous Female Speaker 45:04
but I'm on disability. Okay, like, I qualify for disability, but it's not anywhere near enough to cover rent where I live and my helpers, yeah.
Scott Benner 45:19
Is that covered by insurance or the people that help, or is that a is that a cash prospect? You pay people out of pocket for that? That's
Anonymous Female Speaker 45:27
totally out of pocket? My limited understanding is that long term care insurance could have paid for it. But I think very few Americans have that. They have that,
Scott Benner 45:38
do you have any fear that you're going to be an out of sight, out of mind for him, like he's paying for people to help you, because he doesn't want to be involved. But if he's not there, then, like, is that a concern?
Anonymous Female Speaker 45:49
Do you mean if we were to be formally divorced, yeah,
Scott Benner 45:54
Mike, I mean, obviously that would get taken care of in some sort of a an agreement, but like, prior to the agreement like that, that gray area my parents were divorced, there's a gray area in between where there's nobody's being compelled to do anything. And you know that can sometimes take time. So my thought is, is that right now, he's probably happily paying for people to help you because he doesn't want to be involved with you to begin with. But if you are off in an apartment, and there's no court order in in place that says that, you know he needs to keep paying for your care. I'm gonna guess that's gonna be difficult money to shake out of him. You see what I'm saying? Yeah, cuz you're gonna be out of sight, out of mind. Then, like, if you're in the house and you need something, if he doesn't pay for somebody to get it for you, he's gonna end up having to do it, so he's probably happy to spend the money to avoid the contact, but the contact gets avoided when you leave. That's my concern for you, is that in the middle time, like, how are you gonna get the services you need so that you can actually make the separation leave and get the process underway? So there's an actual court order in place that that handles this like that in between time. I'm concerned for for you.
Anonymous Female Speaker 47:08
Yes, thank you for bringing that up. That's something that I hadn't thought of yet.
Scott Benner 47:13
Make sure you understand what that's going to be, because you could very well end up, I mean, you guys are so separated to begin with, that you might be one of those people who gets divorced while you're in the same house, and that you never leave during the divorce process. That happens and then eventually someone moves out. I can't see that. It's not going to end up being him. You know what I mean? Like, it seems unreasonable for someone to try to compel you to leave it does
Anonymous Female Speaker 47:43
seem unreasonable. I'll tell you why after I
Scott Benner 47:49
bet you a lot of your life seems unreasonable. Jesus. I mean, do you see what I'm saying? Like, if you've got a mediator, or if you get lawyers talking right away, like I don't know that if I was you, that I would leave right away. I
Anonymous Female Speaker 48:06
don't plan on it. Yeah, for two reasons. One, one is this just hard for me, right? And I have thought that okay. Once, once I leave, I have no way back.
Scott Benner 48:21
You lose a lot of power by leaving the house. I think, yeah, yes.
Anonymous Female Speaker 48:24
I mean, as a resident here, I just think there have got to be laws. We've been here for 1617, years. Yeah,
Scott Benner 48:36
it's your house too. I wouldn't go anywhere. That was my point. That's what I was getting to I wouldn't just move out. I'd stay unless you were you felt like you were in danger, and if you feel like you're in danger, then I'd get him removed. But I wouldn't secede that house if I was you. Okay, you know what I'm saying? Because, like, you said, like, once you're out, you're out. I mean, that's your house as much as it is his. You have a medical reason that leaving is difficult. And I can't see a world where a court or a judge or a mediator says, Hey, one of his got to go, and it's you. It just doesn't. It doesn't make sense. And I'm going to guess that once you put the proceedings into motion. He's not going to be comfortable there. You might be surprised that he might. He might happily move to another place at some point.
Anonymous Female Speaker 49:30
It's possible. I wish he would. He actually, he knows people where he could stay there easily. You
Scott Benner 49:41
know what I mean? It's going to become uncomfortable. Also, like, right now, you get to keep pretending that you're like, you're more that your relationship is morphing like even though you're not sleeping in the same room, or he doesn't seem interested in helping you with your health concerns. But he's still getting to pretend that, you know, for. The outside. People don't know for the most part, oh
Anonymous Female Speaker 50:03
Exactly yeah. How is it gonna look if he says, Oh yeah, my wife has cancer. I'm divorcing her. The optics of that,
Scott Benner 50:14
I do think at some point the optics will get the better of him, and probably deservingly. So by the way, I don't want to sound bitter, but like, I mean, I'm not hearing his side of the story. But like, you know, if your side of the story is anywhere near accurate, then I would think he'd get embarrassed and leave honestly. So you've had a consultation, a phone consultation, your child's over 18, away at school, you're looking at, were you trying to get through the holidays? Were you trying to get through like, a thing with your health? Like, are you ready to go? Is it just a matter of, like, getting the nerve where you at?
Anonymous Female Speaker 50:49
I'm trying to gather the information that the attorney recommended that I have before taking a more formal step, okay,
Scott Benner 51:04
bank records, writing down, writing down, your your experiences, things like that.
Anonymous Female Speaker 51:10
I suspect that there are things I don't know of. I suspect there may be hidden assets.
Scott Benner 51:18
Oh, got money in the walls, maybe awesome.
Anonymous Female Speaker 51:25
I saw some mail that was clearly financial. That was nothing I had ever heard about before, interesting,
Scott Benner 51:40
so you're looking into that as well?
Anonymous Female Speaker 51:42
Well, yes, or at least my attorney, or when that person becomes my attorney, you haven't hired them yet formally said that their firm has ways to find anything that's hidden, if that is the case, is the case, and to have some screenshots of said mail to help. Jeez.
Scott Benner 52:14
It's ugly. It sucks, doesn't it like I mean, are you so far past it sucks that it doesn't bother you anymore, like you just said, I'm saying like, there doesn't sound like a lot of again, you're not longing for a thing to be the way it was, like that that's out of your mind. You don't have that expectation. You're old enough that I don't imagine you're thinking about like, you know, I get away from this person and restart another relationship or something like that. Like you're just trying to just get yourself some distance to see if your health will respond to to a better environment. Is that correct?
Anonymous Female Speaker 52:53
Yes, that is my number one priority. Who's the hottie? Now I don't even know my date was Brad Pitt. Well, he turned out to be kind of mature. A hot guy could walk through the door and it wouldn't matter to me.
Scott Benner 53:09
Yeah, that's not your situation. That's somebody. Do you think this is going to be a crazy question, perhaps, but do you think that if it wasn't for the cancer, you ever would have decided to leave
Anonymous Female Speaker 53:18
no and that is, you know, coming back to my faith. You know, I had heard people say things like, when, when bad things happen. Oh, this is a blessing. And I thought they were dulu, or whatever the kids say now, but I understand, I fully understand now I would have kept justifying and justifying and trying to understand and trying to be empathetic and sympathetic and be the one to bend and flex to keep things going. And I realize now none of that effort amounted to anything, because this is not someone who is open to change. And I, I joined a support group. I mean, it was originally for health, the kind of health issues I have, and I I got to know these people pretty well. And one day, I was just like, I know I've been telling you I'm struggling with this physical health thing, and that is true, but I need to, need to give you a little more color on why it's been so hard
Scott Benner 54:32
for me. Yeah. Talk about the rest of it. Yeah.
Anonymous Female Speaker 54:35
So I talked about the rest of it. And what did you know? Like half the group had similar experiences. And apparently I haven't fact checked this, but I it did come up on my feed, just like a meme. And actually, you've talked about it a little bit, something similar with regard to Team One dike. System. Anyway, something came up on VIP that said the divorce rate for marriages where there's a chronic illness is 75%
Scott Benner 55:12
it goes up to like two. It goes from like one in two to two in three. The last time I had heard about it, yeah,
Anonymous Female Speaker 55:21
significant, yeah, this is where one of the partners is the one who's chronically ill. And it says something like, if, like, if it's a heterosexual couple, that's the male is the one who is sick. That's like 3% of the divorce. Anyway, if it's a female, it's a much higher number.
Scott Benner 55:44
You saying boys bail quicker than girls, by a significant margin.
Anonymous Female Speaker 55:49
I'm saying this is a meme that came up for, I don't know. It's not, not a meme, but a post that came up in my social media feed. I have not had the time to fact check it. Well, some I read
Scott Benner 56:03
the comments. Doesn't sound unreasonable. Is that what you're
Anonymous Female Speaker 56:06
saying? I've read the comments, and just anecdotally, so many people commented that, yeah, exactly, totally believe it. That was my life. That was my situation. So, I mean, I'm not here to bad mouth men. There are amazing men. I just not with one of them.
Scott Benner 56:25
Just didn't get one. It's funny too, right? Like you, you coupled up so early in college, and you were, it sounds like you were head over heels. So, like, you overlooked a lot of different things. You didn't even know what you were overlooking, probably at the time. I don't think any of us do. But then, you know, like, some people get lucky, right? Because I don't think anyone's perfect. Like, there's a world where a different you and a different him get together and, you know, you Zig when you should have zagged, or something changes a little bit, or something does happen or doesn't happen, and you grow in it, and it's a different situation. But this is just how this one went. So, I mean, for whatever reason, eventually pushed you to do something, you're gonna have a net positive for making this decision. I don't want to tell you that. I think it's going to be 100% better. Like, it could be crazy. You could wake up three years from now and be like, Oh God, I wish I was still married like I have no idea you know what I mean, but I don't know what to tell you is going to happen. I just know that if you believe right now that you're being treated that poorly, if you're being isolated already, if this is the life you're leading, but there's stress is in your house, and you're worried that this stress is compounding your health issues, then I think the only reasonable thing to do is the thing you're doing. It makes sense to Yeah, it makes sense
Anonymous Female Speaker 57:46
to me. That makes sense. Yeah. I'm really thankful for this opportunity to talk things out with you. Oh,
Scott Benner 57:55
my God, did this help by any chance? Yeah? Yeah. I have no idea what I'm doing. I'm just like, this might be a good idea for the podcast. Do you have, like, the the feeling like you want to ask a question of me before we go, or do you just feel like the conversation was valuable?
Anonymous Female Speaker 58:11
I think the conversation was definitely valuable, and especially since, like, that point you made about the in between period being prepared for that, because, unfortunately, I do not live close to any family. I have a lot of what we call, call it family by choice. I guess people friends became friends over the long period, and I trust them very much. One has even offered like a spare bedroom. But I think I need to mentally prepare for staying here while things get worked out, because that would just overall be better for me and my health needs, and I have to put those first. Yeah, no,
Scott Benner 59:07
for sure. I mean, you obviously you couldn't share too much, because the details would let people know who you are. But I mean, you've had a significant health issue. It's ongoing, and to give yourself the best chance possible, I agree with you. I don't see how you could live around all the stress. So, yeah, I mean, listen, you're in a bad situation, you know, like, this is not like. This isn't like. If you just made one different decision, this would all be like, you know, rainbows and sunshine. This is a this is a mess, like your illness, your relationship. You know, the years that you guys have put into pretending this wasn't happening until it was like, You know what I mean, like, it's not going to be easily untangled. I don't know if you'll ever untangle it, but you could certainly put yourself in a better spot. I think yes,
Anonymous Female Speaker 59:53
and then I wanted to figure out how to heal and move on. So I don't know if it. If you want to how much time we have left, or if you want to go there, but I met him so young, like I didn't really give myself time in between leaving home for college and getting into a serious relationship to just be on my own, not attached to anyone or anything, and just learn who I am. And, hey, you want to do that? My kids said you can do that now. You know, once you're out of here, um, I in my 50s, I just don't even know where to start. And I think that thought is another reason people in situations similar to mine stay Yeah, like the thought of and forget about, like, even if you don't want to do dating, set that aside. I I've been a stay at home mom. I don't know if I can work, and even if I can, like, how do people go about getting jobs now? Like, so much has changed, so you
Scott Benner 1:01:08
feel like the world changed while you were doing this and and it's hard to imagine starting over again, even
Anonymous Female Speaker 1:01:16
just that I'm from the day of paper resumes. And now it's like, everything is online. You have to have certain keywords or whatever in your resume or their the algorithms, those algorithms don't pick you. Yeah. And then I take your point, blame my absence for the workforce, like, like, AI is taking over everything. Who's gonna hire me? Like, that's going through my mind
Scott Benner 1:01:48
a lot or and even if that person exists, like, how do you find them? Yeah, and how do they find you? Yeah, I hear you. That's the bummer. And I'm aware my son just found a job this year, and so I watched him go through that process that you must have to keyword your resume so that the algorithm likes it enough to show it to somebody. Yeah, it's interesting, and that's not a thing you know about anymore, not currently. You could learn.
Anonymous Female Speaker 1:02:16
I'm willing to learn. But where does a person? Where does this person go to learn these things? Like, I'm from the day and age where you take a class or whatever? I guess so much is on social media. Now. I mean, hey, I learned about narcissistic abuse over social media, so maybe there's a way for me to learn how to reinvent myself over social media.
Scott Benner 1:02:40
You learned how to take care of your kid. It's diabetes. With social media, you learned about your life situation. I'm sure you could figure this out as well. And you have a good, astonishingly, a good attitude about I mean, unless you're unless you have, like, a ton of seething rage inside of you that you just didn't tell me about you seem like you're in a at least mentally in a reasonable place to do this. I
Anonymous Female Speaker 1:03:07
spent a lot of time being angry over the years.
Scott Benner 1:03:12
Are you just done with it now?
Anonymous Female Speaker 1:03:14
Yes. I mean, I came to understand that it didn't help me at all. Yeah. You know, I'm just redirecting, like I don't want to waste any more energy or just head space on someone who doesn't deserve my time?
Scott Benner 1:03:32
Yeah, no, I hear you. I think that's an incredibly healthy decision to make. Really, you should give yourself a lot of credit because you are like you said, you're in your 50s. You've been at this for a long time. It would be easy just to, like, dip your head in the sand and go, like, I just got to make it. Like, 10 more years, you know, we'll all get real old, none of this will matter anymore. And blah, blah, blah, no, I think, take advantage of the time you have left, no matter what that time is, or the you know, how much you can get around or not, get around like you're still living your life every day. You might as well live it, at least in the way that you see fit, and in a way where people are not, you know, asserting their on you and making you feel a certain way or feeling burdened by you. Because, I mean, maybe the most insulting thing of the conversation, I mean, of your explanation of your life. I feel like the most insulting thing is just being told, like, well, you're sick now and you need help, and I don't want to be involved in that. That's, yeah, I think that's terrible actually, but I don't think it's uncommon, but I do think it's terrible.
Anonymous Female Speaker 1:04:36
Yeah, I completely agree that that's the thing that psychologically kept me confused for the longest time, because I kept trying to figure out ways to make him care, and then it just I got educated, and I let go of that expectation, and. The freedom came with that. So coming back to what I the reason I put myself out here in this podcast now I know you have such a huge audience for anyone who's listening, who is in a similar situation and feels so stuck, I just want you to hear this and realize you are not stuck, man or woman, you are not stuck, and you can educate yourself, look up narcissistic abuse and use that education to empower yourself. It's one step at a time. We did not get here overnight, and extricating ourselves from the situation won't be quick either. Yeah, that's for sure. Or painless, it'll be quite painful. But think of it if, if I who am dealing with cancer and the side effects, the rare side effects of the treatment. Can make this shift in mindset and start taking baby steps, one step at a time, to get out. You can too. Don't stay I think
Scott Benner 1:06:14
it's a reasonable way to sum it up, right? It's not going to be easy and it's not going to be fun, and it's a decision. You don't have to let life keep happening to you. You could at least make a decision and try to move it into a different direction. I don't say that any of us could sit here and know for sure what's going to happen to you through this process, but you know what's happening to you now, and it's not something you're interested in, so change something and see what happens. Maybe it'll get better. I think it will, like you said, for time, feel like it got worse, but you're gonna have to go through the you know, like you said, it took a long time to get here. It's gonna take a long time to get out of it again. So it's all very good advice from you. It sounds like you've really had a lot of time to think about this, and it feels to me like you're, you're well thought out and probably ready to make the next step. It sounds to me like you're gonna, you're gonna be okay.
Anonymous Female Speaker 1:07:08
I do a lot of praying for that, and I do believe I'm going to be okay. I've got great friends, and I'm taking my power back. It's awesome. Whatever the young kids see
Scott Benner 1:07:23
you're still young. I know somebody who would tell you you're still young. They tell me all the time, and I tell them, No, I don't think we are I think we're old. But they keep saying we're young. So I choose to listen. You have plenty of, you know, plenty of good years to do something great with it, you just got to go figure it out. Do you think I the one thing I didn't ask you about your condition is, is there a prognosis where you're you're doing better than you're gonna than you are now? Or do they expect this to be your baseline?
Anonymous Female Speaker 1:07:55
It could very well be my baseline. If this had happened to me, a few years ago, I would probably not be here, but some new drugs have been developed in the recent years, who have been released or approved or whatever, and they've made a significant difference
Scott Benner 1:08:17
okay
Anonymous Female Speaker 1:08:18
to keep people like me alive, and maybe the next step is in the next 10 years, whatever 15 years is to then improve quality of life. So I'm hopeful, and I have to just stay positive and be hopeful. But if I'm where I am, my objective is to find a way to to be happy, to be of service to other people, to give back. Because I have, I mean, the amount of doctors and nurses and pas and MPs who have just helped me so much over the years. I want to find a way to give back, and that keeps me going too. Yeah,
Scott Benner 1:09:06
well, that's a great purpose that you won't need to keyword a resume to do. That's for sure. Maybe you'll be one of those people on social media that helps other people get out of their stuff by sharing their thing. Have you thought of that? You come full circle maybe one day. Who knows? Like you said, the world's different now, like it's it's incredibly digital. People are able to find ideas and voices that they never would have met in the past. You know, you do a good job of telling your story, and you go out there and tell people like, look, this is my situation. And you know, it's not any Imagine, imagine a couple years from now, like this isn't my situation any longer. You know about getting through problematic relationships, you know about getting through incredibly difficult health issues. There's a lot of people out there that could use that at uh. I don't even want to say advice. I would just more say an example. I think part of what the podcast is for people with diabetes is just like I had a daughter diagnosed very young. We had to figure everything out on our own. And now we're just, I'm just re sharing the things that I figured out. That's all like, I'm just talking about the things that I figured out. And, you know, that stops other people from having to struggle the way we struggled. I'm really just doing what you said you wanted to do. You could do it too. A lot of people do it. You know, a lot of people out there that need help. You never know. Well, you'll figure it out. That's for sure. Let me thank you for doing this. I really do appreciate this is obviously very difficult thing to talk about, like, just like this. I can't thank you enough for adding your voice to the podcast and for being the first person to reach out when I said, like, I think what I said was, like, Would you like to be coached by a completely, I forget how I put it, but untrained life coach, and you were like, yeah. So thank you. I really appreciate it.
Anonymous Female Speaker 1:10:58
Oh, you're welcome. I really hope this series becomes a huge success. I'll be shocked if it's not, because you're just a great person to talk to. Scott, it's very easy to talk to you. Thank you, lovely.
Scott Benner 1:11:11
You're very nice. I'm sure the people in my life are probably like, no, he's not. But you know, like for everybody else, awesome. Thank you. Hold on one second for me,
today's episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the contour next gen blood glucose meter. This is the meter that my daughter has on her person right now. It is incredibly accurate and waiting for you at contour next.com/juice box. I'd like to thank cozy Earth for sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast and remind you that using my offer code juice box at checkout will save you 40% off of your entire order at cozy earth.com that's the sheets, the towels, the clothing, anything available on the website. If you'd like to be on the life coach series, give me an email. Guess I usually say give me a call. You can't call me, but you can email me through Juicebox podcast.com Make life coach your subject line and let me know what you want to talk about. Hey, kids, listen up. You've made it to the end of the podcast. You must have enjoyed it. You know what else you might enjoy, the private Facebook group for the Juicebox Podcast. I know you're thinking, Oh, Facebook. Scott, please. But no. Beautiful group, wonderful people, a fantastic community Juicebox Podcast. Type one diabetes on Facebook. Of course, if you have type two, are you touched by diabetes in any way? You're absolutely welcome. It's a private group, so you'll have to answer a couple of questions before you come in, but make sure you're not a bot or an evildoer. Then you're on your way. You'll be part of the family. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast. If you're not already subscribed or following the podcast in your favorite audio app like Spotify or Apple podcasts, please do that now. Seriously, just to hit follow or subscribe, will really help the show. If you go a little further in Apple podcast and set it up so that it downloads all new episodes, I'll be your best friend, and if you leave a five star review, ooh, I'll probably send you a Christmas card. Would you like a Christmas card? My last thanks to rob at wrong way. Recording. Rob is the editor for the Juicebox Podcast, and he changed this person's voice so magically, I swear, if you heard this person's real voice, you'd just be stunned. Did such a wonderful job of protecting her anonymity. I want to thank him so much. Check him out at wrong wayrecording.com, you.
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