#1238 Dr. Tom Blevins on GLP Medications - Part 2

June 27, 2024Scott Benner

Dr. Tom Blevins discusses GLP medications. Part 2

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Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends and welcome to episode 1238 of the Juicebox Podcast

Dr. Blevins is back today to expand on his GLP conversation from a few weeks ago. Today we're going to be taking listener questions Dr. Blevins is going to do his best to answer them. Nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. Hey, if you have type one diabetes or are the caregiver of someone with type one and a US resident, I need you to go to T one D exchange.org/juicebox. and complete that survey that survey helps the T one D exchange to move type one diabetes research forward T one D exchange.org/juice box. If you've ever wanted to help, this is your chance it will only take you about 10 minutes. When you place your first order for ag one with my link you'll get five free travel packs and a free year supply of vitamin D. Drink ag one.com/juicebox I know that Facebook has a bad reputation, but please give the private Facebook group for the Juicebox Podcast. A healthy once over Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes

today's episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the contour next gen blood glucose meter. This is the meter that my daughter has on her person right now. It is incredibly accurate and waiting for you at contour next one.com/juice Box. Today's episode is sponsored by Medtronic diabetes, a company that's bringing people together to redefine what it means to live with diabetes. Later in this episode, I'll be speaking with Jalen, he was diagnosed with type one diabetes at 14. He's 29. Now he's going to tell you a little bit about his story. To hear more stories with Medtronic champions. Go to Medtronic diabetes.com/juicebox or search the hashtag Medtronic champion on your favorite social media platform. Alright everybody. So Dr. Tom Blevins is back, we're going to do another episode around GLP medications. If you have not heard his first one, it's episode 1212. But today, we're going to do all questions from the audience. So Tom, welcome back.

Dr. Blevins 2:35
Scott, good to be here.

Scott Benner 2:37
I'm glad you were so good the first time I'm excited for you to be back again. I'm just going to jump right into questions that came from the audience about GLP meds I don't know that we're gonna get through all of them. But but let's do it. All right, so I'm gonna start right at the top, my seven year old is very overweight doctor suggested possibly giving her one to help her lose weight over the summer. Is this safe for young children and effective she's type one. She lost 40 pounds before diagnosis and is gained 60 back cannot stop eating.

Dr. Blevins 3:06
Yeah, that, you know, that is a tough problem that she's lost because of the high blood sugar to begin with. And now she's gained back everything and then some. And she's she's hungry. And hunger is a is a tough deal as possible. Certainly that insulin induces some hunger or promotes it. And she's overweight. Now, we don't know the details. But you know, here comes the summer, you wanted to lose weight? And the question is about GLP. One's a glucagon like peptide, one meds? And I'll tell you, it's important to look at what what's been done in terms of studies. And all that when I answered this question, and the answer is there is no medicine approved at this point for a seven year old. And for for any purpose for diabetes, or for weight loss, and there's no GLP one approved, the approvals are the one called saxenda, which is liraglutide, the once a day injection, that one is approved for weight loss in the pediatric population down to age 12. So that's not going to go and the bottom line when it comes to approvals here is that we just don't have data. So we don't know, the person who asked the question could talk to their, their doctor and ask about that. That's certainly something they can talk about. But I would be reluctant to go that direction. It's a really good thought. And you'd love to get her to lose weight, that's for sure. But anyway, I'd be very, very cautious about that talk to a doctor. And and work maybe with this might be a time you know, everyone that's listening probably has talked to a dietitian before. Dieticians can be very effective. So it might be a good time to talk to a person like a dietitian to talk about the eating.

Scott Benner 4:58
Is there a possibility of so for spa this, this suggestion is coming from their physician. So, I don't know, I can't make you guess about this. But is there a world where you would ever look at a seven year old in a similar situation and have this thought or you wouldn't go this way? Full

Dr. Blevins 5:13
disclosure? I do. Mainly, I see mainly adults, and I don't really see seven year olds. So I couldn't answer that about a seven year old. But, you know, this is a place where the doctor, doctors can use medicines, as you know, off label. And and they can look at the indication. And and they could use a medicine that doesn't kind of fit the indication it's a clinical judgment call. We don't know about safety for young kids. And would it be less effective, more effective? We don't know, I suspect it would work the way it does for older children. So the answer is we just don't have much data there.

Scott Benner 5:50
Okay. Let me jump to the next question. This is I'm going to jump around a little bit on this list. But just a very simple question does GLP medication cause muscle loss? So if you're paying attention in the space, when GLP has became kind of in the, in the limelight maybe two years ago, I think Dr. Peter Atea, pretty famously said that he is his practice, took a look and said that people were losing muscle. And I think that became one of the one of the concerns out in the in the media and everything now. Yeah, I've been on it for 13 months now. I don't feel like I've lost muscle. But as a matter of fact, I feel stronger now than I did before. But does it cause muscle loss? Or is that just part of losing weight? Or what are we seeing? Contour next one.com/juicebox. That's the link you'll use. To find out more about the contour next gen blood glucose meter, when you get there, there's a little bit at the top, you can click right on blood glucose monitoring, I'll do it with you go to meters, click on any of the meters, I'll click on the Next Gen. And you're gonna get more information. It's easy to use, and highly accurate. smartlight provides a simple understanding of your blood glucose levels. And of course, with Second Chance sampling technology, you can save money with fewer wasted test strips. As if all that wasn't enough, the contour next gen also has a compatible app for an easy way to share and see your blood glucose results. Contour next one.com/juicebox. And if you scroll down at that link, you're gonna see things like a Buy Now button, you could register your meter after you purchase it, or what is this? Download a coupon? Oh, receive a free Contour Next One blood glucose meter? Do tell contour next.com/juicebox head over there now get the same accurate and reliable meter that we use.

Dr. Blevins 7:44
Great question. And it is a concern. And there there have been people who said oh, these medicines, the GLP ones cause muscle loss. And that's been that's been an inhibitory kind of commentary or idea for many people when they when it comes to using them. But here's what we know, if a person takes a medicine or of any kind or loses weight for any reason, and they're sedentary, they're going to lose fat and muscle both. And probably preferentially even in that situation. If they stay sedentary, they're going to lose more muscle more that is fat than muscle. And typically the first fat loss is the visceral the abdominal fat. And that's what you want to lose as that rapid turnover fat. So that will go first yet if a person maintains a certain amount of activity. And and I would say it's always important for a person to be active walking like 150 minutes a week or whatever a person does. Many people do much more than that, of course, like lifting weights, that kind of thing resistance exercise, those people are not going to have much muscle loss when they use a GLP one or when they lose weight for any reason. This is really a weight loss phenomena. It is true that when a person loses weight, especially a substantial amount that some muscle areas are just not needed as much not having to carry as much weight, so they might lose those muscles a little bit. There have actually been some pretty good studies done that have looked at body composition with GLP ones and the combined GLP one tip Med and remember we're talking about GLP one glucagon like peptide one. And the GI P is glucose glucose dependent insulinotropic polypeptide. Those that abbreviations we use tip for that one and then GLP one, that's a pretty good body composition data that shows that yeah, people can lose a little bit of muscle but mainly they're losing fat. So I'm not worried about muscle loss. When people use GLP ones and less they're completely sedentary. And one of the first things I'm gonna recommend that people do when they take one of these meds I say be active and burn some calories to these medicines reduce calorie intake, but also it's very important that people burn calories and and use their muscles. I

Scott Benner 10:01
have to say, I've been wondering about this question for a while, because Did someone just say something in public? And it just stuck? You know what I mean? Was it like a knee jerk reaction or one of their first things like even would you go back to them now? Maybe? And they'd say, Oh, I've looked further. And I agree more of what I just heard. So I'm glad you were able to answer that. So completely. Thank you.

Dr. Blevins 10:22
Yeah. You know, Scott, I think some of the studies that have been done with body composition will be published, and will become more common knowledge. And it's an important concept. It's an important question. And it's important that we advise people to, you know, do their own thing about reducing calorie intake and also increase muscle activity when they're using these methods. Yeah,

Scott Benner 10:43
I saw a big difference. Just adding like low intensity like dumbbells from my arms, my chest, my shoulders. Yeah.

Dr. Blevins 10:49
I'm glad you said that, too. Because your experience is very important. You're not you don't feel like you've lost muscle mass. And you're, you're doing activities, you're lifting weights, and that I'm not talking about heavy and you're not either. We're not talking about heavy duty weightlifting, we're just talking about lightweight resistance. Yeah, resistance exercise.

Scott Benner 11:07
I'm also very careful to mix a fair amount of beef and chicken into my diet for protein to Yeah, good. Yeah. I'm going to jump off the list for a second. This is actually a question that came in to me through a there's somebody I know personally. So they start zap bound for weight loss. This person does not have diabetes, yes. But they were pretty significantly overweight. And not just hungry, Dr. Blevins but like ravenously, hungry 24/7, like could eat to being stuffed, and someone could offer them a dessert and they go, Yeah, bring it on. Like that kind of thing. Knowing sitting there thinking I'm not hungry. Not only am I not hungry, my stomach hurts. But yes, I'm gonna eat this, but they go on zap bound. It took a couple of months. And the fruit noise did not go away for a couple of months. And I said to them, just keep going. It will. And one day, I get a text. It's working on me all the sudden, like I'm starting to lose weight. I don't feel ravenously hungry all the time, I'm filling up quicker, it took months for to start working for them. And they're having success, they lost 14 pounds, things were getting better. And then all the sudden, the doctor does the blood work. And they have a significantly increased lipase and amylase. So lipase 394, Emily's 204, Doctor pulls them off the med. And those numbers go back down. So my first question is, are those bigger numbers a reason to say oh, my god pancreatitis is coming get off the med or is that just the thing that happens? Well,

Dr. Blevins 12:42
that is a great question. And I'm not sure I have the the perfect answer here either. But we've done quite a number of studies and I can talk about published information. And it is clear that those enzymes can sometimes go up and down. And and while on treatment. The question is what happens in people who are not on those meds at all on a day to day, week to week, month to month basis? And we don't know there really hardly any studies, if any at all. I don't like that. I can cite one that looks at amylase and lipase and as you said those are for the audience. Those are the enzymes from the pancreas. And they tend to be really high when people have pancreatitis. Well keep in mind that pancreatitis is a clinical syndrome of pain, Amin pain, like bad pain, and inflamed pancreas, and very high numbers. So what does it mean when those numbers are high, and a person is not having pain? We don't know. And, of course, I agree those numbers are are depending on the normal range, depending on the normal range in that lab. Those numbers are concerning. And I do understand the concern of the doctor there. And using a medicine that remember these medicines stimulate the beta cells to make insulin they they affect the alpha cells that make glucagon in the pancreas EndyMed that might affect the pancreas could maybe inflame it, but there's really no clear evidence that these meds do that. So I agree with the concern. It's an unknown and this is going to be a clinical thing there with the person who was on the zet bound. That person I know will be talking to the doctor further. And do they want to re reintroduce the medicine that's there? That's a judgment call. Yeah. Is it pre pancreatitis? Who knows? That's a great question. Do I normally measure lipase amylase? Do we always routinely do that? No. Was there a reason in that patient and the person you're talking about to measure at night where they have in some pain? Maybe I don't

Scott Benner 14:44
know Tom. Absolutely no, no pancreatitis Oh

Dr. Blevins 14:47
symptoms at all. One at all. So it wasn't pancreatitis. Almost certainly. And in that one's going to be a call it as you go, and do I recommend that people check amylase and lipase not really Everybody has a different level of caution. Some practitioners may want to check them along the way. And that's their call.

Scott Benner 15:07
Yeah. All right. So here's another one that's not on the list, person using medication for mood stabilization and anxiety, yes, starts using a GLP medication for weight loss. And then it messes up the absorption of their medication. And their anxiety gets significantly worse. Is there a way to manage that they're already on a large dose of the anxiety? medication, the doctor was uncomfortable giving them more. And that's why they took this person off of the off the GLP. But was there a better way to manage that, that you know, if you

Dr. Blevins 15:47
get that's gonna be very much a clinical thing up kind of between the person you're talking about and the doctor would a lower dose of the GLP one work and make it all okay, maybe would timing help of the medicine? Maybe, but not not horribly likely. Because, as you know, these GLP one meds like the ones we use once a week, and they have a very long life. So there's not really a predictable time during the day that the effect would be less on the stomach emptying, would it gradually improve over time, but not hard to know. As you know, the effect on gastric emptying that these medicines have the slowing down of gastric emptying is something that happens, especially early on when you start the medicine and every time you increase the dose, it kind of recreates itself. But as the gastric emptying kind of goes back a little bit more towards normal, after a person has been on the bed for a while. And after a few weeks, it doesn't go back to normal. That's going to be very much a play about your thing. That's what this is why the people say it's the art of medicine, just the science and that's gonna be an art thing. I

Scott Benner 17:00
asked the question here just so people can hear like if you are taking medications by mouth, you might be seeing absorption changes, it is the thing to take care of. You notice that is true. Take note of Alright, let's stay in that vein a little bit. I have gastro problems when I use these drugs. I have a very low carb diet, which helps me keep my numbers in five, five range, but I need to lose weight. Low Carb means high fat some of the time, which can make me sick with the drugs. Is there anything that can be done to help me use GRPs without so much sickness? This episode is sponsored by Medtronic diabetes, Medtronic diabetes.com/juice box. And now we're going to hear from Medtronic champion Jalen. I

Speaker 1 17:44
was going straight into high school. So it was a summer heading into high school was that particularly difficult, unimaginable, you know, I missed my entire summer. So I went, I was going to a brand new school, I was around a bunch of new people that I had not been going to school with. So it was hard trying to balance that while also explaining to people what type one diabetes was. My hometown did not have an endocrinologist. So I was traveling over an hour to the nearest endocrinologist for children. So you know, I outside of that I didn't have any type of support in my hometown.

Scott Benner 18:17
Did you try to explain to people or did you find it easier just to stay private?

Speaker 1 18:22
I honestly I just held back I didn't really like talking about it. It was just it felt like it was just an repeating record where I was saying things and people weren't understanding it. And I also was still in the process of learning it. So I just kept it to myself didn't really talk about it.

Scott Benner 18:36
Did you eventually find people in real life that you could confide in. I

Speaker 1 18:41
never really got the experience until after getting to college. And then once I graduated college, it's all I see. You know, you can easily search Medtronic champions, you see people that pop up and you're like, wow, look at all this content. And I think that's something that motivates me started embracing more, you know, how I'm able to type one diabetes, Medtronic

Scott Benner 19:02
diabetes.com/juice box to hear more stories from the Medtronic champion community.

Dr. Blevins 19:09
Yeah, you know, this is this a question has many different components in a way and keep in mind that fat does slow down the stomach emptying already. And then you add a medicine on top of it, that slows it down and you get a double slowing and away maybe not double but you get more slowly. And that can lead them to more or not nausea, and even vomiting. And and so one of the strategies of course, when people start a GLP one or GLP one gi P method is to reduce the fat. So those of you out there who are taking these meds, if you have a high fat diet, then you're taking a GLP one cut back because that will help the nausea if you're getting nausea. Low Carb doesn't necessarily have to mean high fat. Low Carb can be accompanied by kind of a lean lean protein type, elite meat type intake, and it can be okay in terms of weight loss. So I would say that, though it's not as simple as I might try to make it here, that the person here doesn't have to go high fat, and I think they could modify down to, and I think low carb, in my mind, is it many different definitions of different definitions of low carb. I think it's low, simple, simple car, but I think vegetables fit very well into a low carb diet. It's the potatoes, pasta, rice bread stuff that I try to get people to avoid more simple carb and other simple carbs to. So I think I think the vegetable lean meat approach would be okay. And so I hope that helps the person. And if they take that approach,

Scott Benner 20:49
I think it might actually, yeah, here's one. I've been on rebel sis. Since mid February. I'm type one, I'm taking it for weight loss, my a one C is six, eight, no side effects. I've gone from 190 to 169 pounds. Now today, my endo said she's really concerned with me using a GLP medication being a type one, and then notes the risk of pancreatic and thyroid cancer. Is that a genuine concern?

Dr. Blevins 21:15
Okay, so a couple things, I'm always going to want to kind of refer back to the idea of the approvals. And I know this is being used off label for this patient numbers, you know that Rob Bell's is not approved and type one, right? We've talked about this before. And Scott, you know, I'll continue to repeat that because it is up to the clinician, and the patient to decide some some of the many of these things is called off label use of a medicine. So that's one thing to say congratulations to the person who has such a great a one C, and weight loss. That's great. So this is gonna be a discussion that's going to be important for the person to have with their Endo, and go back in and say, Hey, tell me more about this. And let's talk about it. And and I certainly don't want to get in the middle of that. I will say that the thyroid cancer issue with GLP ones and GLP one gi P meds, and it's a boxed warning for virtually all of them has to do with a cancer called Med galeri. Thyroid cancer. That's a route that's I'm not going to go as far as say it's rare, but it's really uncommon. And it runs in families many times not always, there's something called multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type two runs on and we do see people I'm an endocrinologist, I see people who have immune to and I would never give them GLP one meds because it's contraindicated because their cells in the thyroid called C cells that were stimulated in rodents, when they were given GLP one meds now humans aren't rodents. But we don't know the whole story here in terms of how humans might respond, who have either the cancer or family history, we don't know that we would promote it. So those people shouldn't take it. Most thyroid cancers have absolutely no implication when it comes to GLP. One, there's no sign that GLP one meds can cause the routine, the common kinds of thyroid cancer. So that's something that person needs to talk to their endo about a little bit to try to find out more about that. And if the person has no family history of medi Larry, thyroid cancer, no family history of me and multiple endocrine neoplasia, then they could go in and talk to their endo about that. Pancreatic cancer, there's really no evidence that these males cause pancreatic cancer. So I think the person wants to go back and talk to endo and say this talk about that issue. What are we talking about here? I think that's the best approach. Go back in and talk to the talk to the endo and find out more about the concerns that we know. Yeah,

Scott Benner 23:50
I'm going to read you something then I'm going to ask you a question about how you think about things. So yes, medullary. Thyroid cancer is a rare type of thyroid cancer accounting for about one to 2% of all thyroid cancers in the US, approximately 1000 people are diagnosed with modularity thyroid cancer each year in the United States. So if you're one of those 1000 people, then their odds aren't great. But that's a pretty low number. And that's fair to say, right? 1000 people is a fairly,

Dr. Blevins 24:18
that's pretty low number. Okay. I agree with the concept. I think one to 2% doesn't fit rare, but it's really, really uncommon. I know it's called rare. It's really, most cancers are thyroid cancers are called papillary, or follicular or mixed. Those are the ones that we see if someone has that kind of cancer in their personal history or family history. There is no contraindication to using this method. So you are you're right. You know, one thing to point out is and we don't want to go too far here, but these meds have been around for quite some time. You know, ozempic was approved in 2017. And then true listed He's been out for a long time. And it's been used in millions of people. And we're not seeing a thyroid cancer, med Valarie? Or any other answers signal in it. Now you could say, well, it's not being followed very closely. I mean, how would you know, because there's not a, there's not a study going on here. But people do report these things. There is no signal that showing up. So I think it's very important that a person not take GLP wants to have if a person has a personal history of modularity, thyroid cancer, or that multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome, but we are right, it's really, really, really uncommon.

Scott Benner 25:35
So my question to you is, because your common sense person, this is one thing I've learned from you. In the short time I've met you and known you, in your own life, medications you might take or as a, as a doctor who's prescribing? How do you think about the problem of Yes, some people die in car accidents, but we need to drive when it comes to medicine? Like, do you know what I mean? Like that bigger, right? Because you hear people all the time, like, you know, I'll post on the Facebook group, hey, you know, we're talking about GLP. Today on the podcast, and 50 people be like, Oh, my God, I've been on GLP. For two years, I've lost so much weight, my one sees down, blah, blah, blah, it's all in one person's like, it makes me throw up and everyone goes, Oh, my God, it makes people throw up. It's a really interesting way our minds work. Like I know, we're, we're risk averse as humans on purpose. And that's a good reason. But But how do you think about it personally, like when you're standing in front of a person, you decide to give them something? And this and whatever else is in that label is out there? How do you make the risk reward decision?

Dr. Blevins 26:39
Yeah, it's what you said it's a benefit risk equation, it's a benefit risk analysis, you want the benefit, the potential benefit, when you start a medicine, when I run a medicine, I want the benefit, the potential benefit to way exceed the risk in risk is a very, very thing too. I mean, some some medicines have a risk of some really nasty things. Some medicines have risk of some fairly mild things. So nausea can be anything from mild to nothing too terrible. It is true. And I tell people this all the time, or if I'm ever presenting this data, I say, Well, some people can't take it, for sure. And that's true of most myths. And that's when I take them out. I know I'm going to try it. If I'm having a symptom I don't like I'm going to stop it. And I'm going to look for an alternative. Maybe it depends on what it's all about the the condition, and the benefit and the risk. And so people need to know going into taking this type of medicine or any type of medicine, why they're taking it, what it can do for them and the risk, and they need to realize it especially with GLP ones that sometimes people just simply can't take because of nausea. Yeah, if one person has nausea and vomiting, and they stop taking it does that is that a clarion call to say everyone should go off of it? Not at all, not at not at all, the vast majority of people have no problems with it, they might have mild nausea, they may have moderate nausea, or even even notable non nausea, which tends to get better over time. It doesn't always get better over time, though. And I'll tell you, if you look at most studies, I'll just kind of ballpark it anywhere from 4%. Up to 8% of people in the studies had to discontinue the GLP one or GLP one tip meds because of GI symptoms. And as we've talked about before, that would be nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, constipation, I tell people, Hey, you may get nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, constipation, and you don't get to choose, you know, one of those and you may not, you may not tolerate it. Many times we can mitigate the we can reduce the side effects by reducing the dose. And in their other things I could go on and on about that can also reduce the risk of that like lower fat. We talked about that while ago. lower volume in the in the food intake. There's lots of things people can do to modify. But yeah, you're right. If one person has a significant side effect, and they can't take it that does has that's interesting. And that's that's it, and I'm sorry for that person. Of course, it doesn't mean other people should go off of the medicine

Scott Benner 29:12
or not try it out either. Yeah, exactly. My mindset is simple. Like, we're here now. Like, the rules have changed. Like I'm not, I'm not standing in front of you. Me personally, super fit and muscular with no fat on me and no risks of heart attacks. I'm 52. I'm carrying extra weight. A lot of it's in my stomach. You give me this medication. I'm not as hungry, I fill up sooner. I'm losing weight, and I have diarrhea feels like the cost of doing business to me. You know what I mean? Now, it wasn't so bad that I couldn't exist. And of course, if it was that would change it. I want to know too. And this is going to call for speculation but how many people have you stood in front of who experienced the side effects and you think yeah, stop taking this and how many of them do you think tougher out, it'll be okay. And like, it's sometimes it's just the resiliency of the person, not necessarily the medication. I know that I'm not blaming them. But I mean, people do have different tolerances for for trouble. Do you know what I mean? By do?

Dr. Blevins 30:16
You know? The answer is it's highly variable. I had a person in the office yesterday who was having pretty bad constipation, connected to a GLP. One method. And we did a few things. First of all, she didn't want to stop the meth because she's had good results. And just what you said, she's had good results, she understands the importance of the results, she's had her sugars are better, her weights down, everything's better, she feels better. But she has pretty notable constipation. So what do we do we cut back the dose a bit, I gave her some advice about treating constipation in general. And there ways to deal with it. Now some people come and say, is so bad, I can't take it. I go, you're the boss, not me. And let's let's go off of it. Or we might try different GLP one GRP. Med. This is surprisingly, sometimes changing the med can change the symptoms. And you wouldn't think it would be true. You would think that I'll be kind of similar in that way. But there are some there are some differences.

Scott Benner 31:14
My endo told me going from Wiko V to zap bound might help me with loose stool. Yeah, yeah. And she indicated that it's possible my acid reflux, which had gotten much better, could actually even get a little better again, yeah, it has been my finding. If I had known enough about the drug before I started, which I think people should, should know that I was very careful to take magnesium oxide every day, when I started the medication, like, I did not want to be constipated. And I also very thoughtfully, even though I am not a high fat person to begin with, I was extra careful not to eat high fat. Now, I mean, truth is, depending on the dose, I've had, you know, it's funny, I've had French fries in front of me at a table with a bunch of people. And I've reached out and had two or three of them, and you get to the third round, and you just like, I don't want this. And it just it's interesting how your brain works so much differently on this med than then it worked for me that my brain worked without it. Because I could have eaten them. But I was just like, I don't I don't want to do this.

Dr. Blevins 32:18
And that is so cool. Because you just saved yourself a few 100 calories. Yeah, that is that is the way those work, meds work. They do such a nice job with that. Fascinating.

Scott Benner 32:27
Yeah, let me ask you one, it's a little generalized, but just so that this information is in each episode that you do about GLP is this question, what specifically? Is it about a GLP? That helps lower insulin needs for type ones? And is there one that is preferred over another specifically for type ones? Well, the so forget, forget, for a minute. FDA approved, right? We know none of them are for type ones. But what's the mechanism of how a GLP helps lower your insulin needs? Yeah.

Dr. Blevins 32:58
And you're right, none of these were approved for type one. And we are doing a study you as we've talked about before, here in Austin, that's looking at one of these people with type one. And I hope that study pans out to show it's effective and safe. And maybe we'll get one approved, we sure hope so. But the way it could reduce insulin needs would be number one, it does slow down gastric emptying, so therefore, anything that goes in, it's absorbed more slowly. So there's less peaking of the carbohydrate, less less glucose flow from the intestine, at least it's delayed. And so that's a better way to put it. In addition, the medicine can reduce appetite a bit, so fewer calories and fewer carbs in lower glucose and lower insulin need. It can reduce then weight as a result of the decrease in appetite or early satiety. And that improves insulin sensitivity itself, as you know. Now, is there one that's preferred? I don't know. And I'm not gonna I don't think so. I will say that the one called terzetto appetite, which is Mount Yarrow. And set bound has the effect that the GLP one has on slowing emptying and reducing appetite, but also seems to increase insulin sensitivity. And so that that's an interesting phenomena to where everybody's still kind of working their way through that one. So it has that effect. So all of those mechanisms together, or intervene individually can help reduce the need for insulin

Scott Benner 34:41
to follow up questions, so ones for me personally, if it's slowing gastric emptying, meaning I'm probably going to bed with food, my stomach, how is my stomach acid going down? How come it's having that impact for the life of me the first time I lay down at night I thought Oh God, I don't think my dinners like through For me at and I expected more gastric reflux and I got less, what's the mechanism there? Yeah,

Dr. Blevins 35:07
you know, this is going to be something that varies from person to person, these meds can cause a worsening of reflux because they slow emptying. And that's what you'd expect. And some things happen that we can't explain, I will say this, when a person loses weight, they lose visceral, adiposity, visceral fat early on, they don't lose it all, they lose some of it. And that reduces then pressure on the stomach, that's just a mechanical thing that reduces reflux. And so and perhaps a person eats less as as they use the med to. And that might reduce volume. And that might actually reduce pressure in the in the stomach, then the pressure is what leads to the reflux into the esophagus, and the acid feeling. So there are a number of possible reasons that your symptoms are better. One may be the weight loss or reduction adiposity, visceral fat, and the other may be that you're eating lower volumes, and maybe not even notice and you are but the possibly you are I know that that's not have intrinsically any anti acid effect. I'll tell you that. Right. So

Scott Benner 36:15
it's more physical structural implications.

Dr. Blevins 36:19
I think so

Scott Benner 36:20
yeah, it makes sense to me, I'm going to ask a very specific question. This is actually for, like an acquaintance of mine. Yes, at birth, this person lost some of their intestine. So it had to be removed their whole life, they basically eat and then dump, right? Like it just That's how it goes. Right? Did GLP be bad for them? With that structural change? Interesting

Dr. Blevins 36:42
question. And this may also more generally be something people who have gastric bypass his might ask or gastric sleeve to in the answer is, well, first of all, the best answer is, I don't know. The other part of the answer is that person if they wanted to explore that would need to talk with their doctor and find out the you know, the pros and cons and whether it's even possible or feasible. And the answer is, it could in theory, because it slows down gastric emptying that slows down the lower intestine as well in many people. So how that how's that gonna work? I don't know. But it's an interesting thought.

Scott Benner 37:21
It's not a question that makes you like, throw up a stop sign up. Oh, hell no, don't do that. No,

Dr. Blevins 37:26
yeah. Okay. No, that's, it's, this is one of those things, you know, it's a negotiation with the doctor, of course, or that person may have a GI specialist, I don't know. But it's a negotiation, like so many things is, well, what about this? Would it be worth worth? worth trying? And that's, that's where I would take it. Let's

Scott Benner 37:43
listen. That's what I told them, especially when you're, this would be for weight loss for them, not diabetes. I said, My God, they're gonna give you a quarter of like, Wiko V to start, like, I don't think you're gonna get thrown into a giant problem. And if it's a problem, you're gonna live through it and stop, you know, so yeah,

Dr. Blevins 38:00
probably, you know, it's probably the only gi history and there's, there's some I might in general, that I would say as is kind of a contraindication to using them as would be if somebody has established gastroparesis, then adding a medicine that slows down the stomach even more, just, generally speaking, not a great idea. Yeah, most of these is recommended. You don't use them and people have gastroparesis hasn't been studied. And people have gastric sleeve or gastric bypass or a person like the person you're talking about. Know. And could it be tried? Possibly, you'll know pretty quickly. If it's a problem.

Scott Benner 38:37
Yeah, I have a note here to myself, because I knew this would probably come up at some point, talking about the difference between a person with type one who starts to experience digestion issues. Maybe because your pancreas has been impacted the way it has been, you're not getting digestive enzymes, maybe correctly from your pancreas anymore. People don't know that. But the frequency that I hear from newly diagnosed people or my son has stomach issues now that they have type one and they've had it for a year. For some reason, a lot of endos. Don't talk to type ones about using a pancreatic enzyme or a digestive enzyme, excuse me to help with digestion, or maybe add a magnesium oxide to help with elimination, and instead they end up eventually at a gastro who just says, Oh, if your stomach's emptying slowly, you have gastroparesis. The difference between that and someone who's had type one for 30 or 40 years and likely has nerve damage if they have gastroparesis, and I do think there's going to be a section of type ones who GLP aren't going to be a choice for because of actual gastroparesis, that that's affected that is a front what does that nerve called the feel like it starts with an F but I can't think of the name of it all of a sudden, Renick

Dr. Blevins 39:53
is one of the nerves but vagus nerve is there and I mean some people with with Type one do you have that neuropathy? The autonomic type neuropathy? Yeah, which leads to gastroparesis. And some of them don't know, they have gastroparesis. And they might find out if they, of course, it would be off label, if they used GLP, one type method. Yeah. And I've seen that, and they're gonna have more notable, and there could be people who have gastroparesis, who have had diabetes a short period of time, but But it's probably not caused by the diabetes. And so there are certain tests like a gastric emptying study, which is kind of funny study where people may have to intake some food that's got some radioactive stuff kind of mixed in with it. And then it's observed the emptying from the stomach is observed after they eat it. Yeah. But that kind of a test is an objective way to look at gastric emptying.

Scott Benner 40:46
I just want to bring it up. Because there's, there's a lot of thinking to be done around this issue around type one and GLP meds, I think, yeah, I think you're right. Scary. Scrambled eggs aside the gift that they give you for that? Right? Oh, stuff? That sounds kind of awful. Yeah. Would it be better? GLP? Is they mean than taking Metformin? I'm asking because my teenager has major insulin resistance and weight gain.

Dr. Blevins 41:14
Yeah. You know, Metformin, has a little bit of there's data in type one diabetes with metformin, and it can help a little bit, but it's not very consistent. Metformin, primarily seems to reduce a paddock that has liver glucose output. Is it an insulin sensitizer? Can it treat insulin resistance very effectively? The answer is well, in general, it's not a classic sensitizer can it lead to weight loss, and not very often and infrequently, occasionally, though, people get sort of almost like anorectic on Metformin. And we have to take them off. And that is very unusual. So I think Metformin has a potential role, it might be worth a try. It is, of course, it's not approved for type one either, but we try it at times. And so I don't think I mean, that for me might have some effect. What was Scott, what was the other part of that question?

Scott Benner 42:14
They have major insulin resistance and weight gain? Yeah. So I mean, let me ask you a different question about Metformin. And then we'll circle back around. It's one of those drugs that's used a lot by biohackers. Like with the idea of like Metformin fixes everything makes you live on like, is there any studies that tell me that just pop into Metformin is good for my longevity?

Dr. Blevins 42:38
You know, there's a lot of theory here. And Metformin may have some anti inflammatory effect. There are people that feel like it has some effect on reducing dementia. And as an effect on longevity, the data is not in on that one yet. And there's some studies going on. Actually, there's a large study going on to look at that kind of thing, but it's going to take that kind of study clearly can take a while to finish. And they'll hopefully be some stops along the way they will get information but the answer is unclear. Does it lower glucose and sugar? Yeah, it does. And is it good for type two diabetes? For sure. Is it is it a strong met? Not really. It's kind of a weak man, when it comes to lowering glucose. It plays well with virtually every medicine that we have in the type two space. And we do use it off label sometimes in type one.

Scott Benner 43:27
Okay. But GLP is are leaning towards packing some similar ideas with like me right away? What's the one that they want to they were trumpeting like heart disease with GRPs is down and and what else kidney disease. But is that? Is that just the function of keeping weight off and or blood sugars lower? You

Dr. Blevins 43:47
know, it's not really clear. I think that's a lot of it. But you know, that semaglutide which of course would be ozempic will go V rebel says the ozempic component that is looked at people went with type two diabetes and with existing heart disease, and found that there was a reduction in what was called major adverse cardiovascular events, and that would be cardiovascular death, and then also non fatal mi heart attack and non fatal stroke. So is it because of the weight loss? Hard to know? Is it because of the consequences of weight loss? Probably, yes. The lowering of blood pressure or maybe improving lipids, other anti inflammatory or other effects we don't even know about? And maybe so but in people with known heart disease, cardiovascular disease, and type two diabetes ozempic has really good data. And you know, that will go V recently, which is of course, the same thing for the weight loss is semaglutide with GAVI recently was approved to reduce the risk of those major adverse cardiovascular events, and people that have known heart disease and either obesity or overweight. So we know that these meds and other meds are the other meds like Manjaro is at bound, they're being studied in the same way. Trulicity showed improvement, you know, truelist, these Dula glue tie the other GLP. One. liraglutide showed that too, so that that whole area is very good. Usually, though I'll point this out. They're looking at people I've known known known cardiovascular disease, they're not looking at people who have type two diabetes and don't have any known disease. And they certainly have not looked at people with type one. Kidney, yes, there's some good data that shows that these meds and specifically semaglutide might actually have a beneficial effect on the kidneys. Interesting.

Scott Benner 45:47
Let's do one for people who are using now what happens if I go up and down on my dose? Because of the shortage of the medications? Is that gonna hurt me?

Dr. Blevins 45:56
And the answer is, it's gonna be really annoying, and it's gonna hurt your feelings for sure. And I don't know, I don't think it's going to hurt you, you're gonna have to chase the glucose is a little bit when you go down on the dose, or you have if if a person, for example, can get one dose, but they could get the lower dose, the pharmacy has the lower dose, they don't have the dose they're taking? Well, the lower dose is gonna be less effective. The person might have to adjust their glucose, sugar lowering meds a little bit. And, and they may feel differently. And then, you know, in a month or two months, they might get the dose, they were on that as now the higher dose, and they might have to reduce their their meds a bit. Is that going to hurt you? I don't think so. Is it going to annoy the heck out of you? Yes.

Scott Benner 46:42
Yeah. It's almost like somebody's going to reach in and change your Basal rates or something like that without telling you. Right? Right. And even if you're just on it, for I'm seeing people who are just on it for weight loss, they don't have diabetes, and the same things happen. And they call their pharmacy and their pharmacies like, Yeah, we don't have it. And you know, but we have this one, and you go, all right, I mean, some is better than none, if it's lower, but you can't just go from like, for example, you can't just go from five milligrams of zinc bound up to 12. Because that's what they have that'll crush you. Right?

Dr. Blevins 47:14
That can be a problem. And I think some people could probably tolerate that. But we don't know. And the whole idea about going up slowly, is just what you're implying is so that you maintain your tolerability of the medicine, and going up too far too fast, could bring out GI symptoms that you wouldn't have had otherwise. So that Euro it's a funny world right now, where the supply is difficult. I think there's been some improvement recently, you know, we're talking right now, late May 2024. And I think by by later in the year, the supplies gonna be better. I will tell you this, though, I said the same thing last year at the same time, and the supply didn't improve that much demand is so high for these meds, that it's been hard for the companies to keep up with supply.

Scott Benner 47:59
I think there's an indication there, by the way that because the demand is so high and consistently high and grows, that should be some indication that it's working for people, because sure everybody might want to try it. But if you try and it doesn't do anything you're not going to keep you're not going to keep doing it. You know, it's obviously at best, you know, just me guessing out into the world. But I don't imagine there'd be this trouble locating I mean, I've run around looking for this stuff, like a crackhead a couple of times. You know what I mean? Like, right, yeah, yeah. Yeah, hard to find sometimes hard to find and CVS Caremark just announced, they're just not going to carry it anymore through mail order. Because it's so inconsistent their ability to get it. But okay, but that explains the the moving around in in doses, I went, I'm into my second week of 10 milligrams is that bound? And I was I had plateaued on Rigo V, I couldn't I just wasn't losing any more weight on the go V. I got moved to that bound. My doctor, I think, started me at what is it two and a half, maybe with that, I quickly went to five. Yes, I lost six pounds. But after I and then they put me on, I plateaued she put me at seven and a half. And seven and a half just nothin. Like I started to gain those five or six pounds back that I lost with a switch. And now I'm on 10 for two weeks, and I've lost those six pounds again, right? And everything's back to where it was meaning I started to have sugar cravings at the end of when I was on lower dose of set bound. Now that it's higher, the cravings are gone. The weight loss is happening again. It's fascinating to watch, but you really do have to pay attention to do Yeah, I make a diary of it. I do it on the podcast, but I think if I wasn't making the diary, I wouldn't even be able to keep up with what's happening to me. Like I think it's that's my by the way, that's my little bit of help. I think you should make a diary about it if you're on it.

Dr. Blevins 49:55
I think that's a great idea. And I think I'm really glad you said what you did about titrating To increase the dose and then that you had results on the weight loss side, and because sometimes people will start at the lower doses, nothing's happening, this is not working. And, you know, hang in there titrate the dose, you get up to 7.5 of zet bound 10 12.5. Sometimes people attend, don't get results and got to 12.5 and their work. And there's a chance. I mean, they're always people that don't respond to any dose, that's for sure. But usually titrating up is going to allow a person to get some results, and that goes for what GAVI that goes for all of them.

Scott Benner 50:35
But Dr. Blevins, you're sitting here with this grand amount of knowledge and you're articulate about it, you know how to explain it in a way that people can understand. A lot of people don't get that from their physicians, a lot of some of their physicians are making decisions based on what they hear on Access Hollywood, you know what I mean? Like I hear it's making people throw up, you don't always get real thoughtful advice. And even the advice I'm getting is from a, from a very learned, like, level headed person, you know what I mean? And, and I have good communication with her as well. Like if I texted my endo right, now, she texts me back. Well, that's great. Like that kind of like, you know, like, if I said, Hey, I'm doing this and this happen, what do you think I should do? I'm thinking this, I'd get a note back. Yeah, yeah. And not most people don't have that, you know, it is

Dr. Blevins 51:23
important to realize that people who are prescribing, there's that thing in medicine called do no harm, and you don't want to make people sick with your medicine. And so realize that, the audience realize that, you know, you may not tolerate the medicine, and and you're communicating many times back and forth, just got, as you said, by text or by phone, or by, you know, Portal message or whatever. And you can't express exactly what's going on. And, and then the person on the other end is going to read, if the person said, Hey, I can't tolerate this medicine, they can say, Oh, you want to stop it. But there may be some middle middle ground there and actually communicating in person. Yeah. Or, you know, more completely can really make a big difference that

Scott Benner 52:06
knee jerk reactions from happening to Yeah, exactly. Here. Do GLP s reduce inflammation in the body? And has it shown any benefits for other autoimmune issues? Yeah,

Dr. Blevins 52:17
that's a great question. And that's, that's the hotbed of a lot of of research and a lot of discussion, and a number of studies. And the answer is, if you look at the studies that are so far available, you can see some reduction in markers of inflammation. Is that going to translate into some really good treatment for inflammatory conditions? I don't know. I don't think anybody knows. Like, if somebody has rheumatoid arthritis, as a GLP. One help? Who knows? I wouldn't predict Yes, because I don't see how that could happen. But it may be there. There'll be something down the road. That'll tell us more if a person has say osteo arthritis, the bone, bone on bone in their knees, hips. Does losing weight help that? Of course it does. And so, lots to learn here.

Scott Benner 53:08
Is AstraZeneca, developing a GLP that you know if I know

Dr. Blevins 53:12
that Boehringer Ingelheim is developing, and also there's some other companies developing company called structure. I'm not aware that AstraZeneca is and I'll just be the first to say, I don't know everything here. And we do a lot of clinical research here. And there may be things going on, I don't know about but I suspect that question was about boy and girl Ingelheim. The bigger answer here is, you know, there are a number of companies that are developing new GLP, one meds GLP, one gi P meds, and even those are dual agonists. And they're triple. And there's a whole wave of new generation meds coming through. And they're going to have different characteristics and they're going to have favorable characteristics we think. So, you know, hold on, and as you might expect, there's a lot of attention in this area in the pharmaceutical research industry. And there'll be more meds coming down the pike. Let

Scott Benner 54:05
me read you this. And I'll tell you what I think cat GPT four o says AstraZeneca is actively involved in developing a GLP medication. They have recently acquired the rights to a promising oral GLP one agonist called AECC 5004 from a Chinese biotech company called Echo gene. So good now, so great, let everyone he

Dr. Blevins 54:24
says AC is a big company. And many of the big companies have have focused a little bit more on on this area. So that is great news.

Scott Benner 54:35
I'm also excited for biosimilars to start popping up because obviously, these things are working for people, it's hard to turn them out. Some of the molecules work better. And you know, for some things, some for others, I think you can only benefit to have options and a fresh set of eyes. Doesn't always hurt either when people are trying to find something that does the job but isn't copying because that's the real problem right now. So people have patents. So you can't like nobody can knock it off as a generic yet there's, that's not going to happen for a while. And so if you want there to be more innovation, you've got to have all these companies looking at this at the same time. So

Dr. Blevins 55:13
that is so true. Yeah. Yeah, you know, this, this thing about these methods and their effect on what you talked about appetite. And one of the people asked a question asked about appetite. And these, these medicines help regulate appetite, which appetite gets people into trouble. And, like, you have three French fries, and you stop, that's great. Most of the time, you know, over the past, if you were me, a few French fries, oh, man, they all that looks good, I'm gonna have that whole basket. And if some cuts, something good tells me to stop that be really good and very healthy. It'd be interesting to see these meds approved just for appetite reduction, although that's probably going to happen, because I don't think the FDA is going to allow that approval for something they're going to want a disease condition. But appetite is frequently the root cause and these medicines reduce appetite, all of them.

Scott Benner 56:01
I'm waiting for Agra companies to start getting involved in trying to put a stop to them. Because you don't I mean, if I made Oreos, I'd be scared. Seriously? Yeah,

Dr. Blevins 56:11
that's a good point. And no carrying. I don't think Oreos have anything to worry about.

Scott Benner 56:16
I'll tell you what, are

Dr. Blevins 56:17
not the only an Oreo, and I'll eat it. What

Scott Benner 56:20
is is there any concern with long term use? Like I mean, for some people, listen, this is me looking online, right? I've seen some people say I lost the weight, I lost the med because of my insurance. And guess what, I'm fine. I didn't get any back. I learned how to eat better. Everything's going well, I'm active, etc. I've seen people say I've lost the med because of insurance. And I didn't change a thing about what I was doing, I put all the weight back on. So some people are going to have to take it forever. Is there a concern a safety concern with that, that you can think of

Dr. Blevins 56:50
Forever is a long time. And we have a lot of data with these meds. And we don't have like 20 year data yet. Trulicity ozempic have been, we talked about this earlier been a long time. And so far, no new signals have shown up like some weird findings. And so they look safe for long term. In general, I would say that for person to maintain the effect of the Med, most of the data says the person has to continue the Med, they might be able to reduce the frequency of administration and the dose to maintain. But they're going to need to continue the Med, they're going to be exceptions to that rule. They're going to be people who can stop and maintain. That is great. And they're going to people, the only people who take it on and on and on and they regain. But in general, if you continue to Matthew, if the effect continues. So we're looking at everybody's looking at the scientific community to look and see if there's anything long term that turned out to be a negative, but so far, so good. So it's not like the duration of time people are on it to the number of people. And they're really millions and millions and millions of people who've been on these meds now and no clear new signals have shown

Scott Benner 58:04
up. Yeah. Do you have a little more time? Are we done?

Dr. Blevins 58:07
Yeah, we can go? How about we could aim for another 10 or so

Scott Benner 58:11
minutes? Okay. I like to know if GLP is used in patients with thyroid concerns, Hashimoto specifically and or hyper cholesterol OMYA. Is that what that is? hypercholesterolemia?

Dr. Blevins 58:23
III, I think is what they're saying.

Scott Benner 58:26
What are their concerns with that?

Dr. Blevins 58:28
The answer is, there's no sign that GLP one meds or GLP. One GRP meds can make Hashimoto as improve, or worse, there's really no evidence there. And there, there is no evidence that these meds would make cholesterol worse. In fact, if you look at most of the data, you would see that the cholesterol levels improve. I could go through each fraction, I'll just say they improve when people are on these meds probably because of the effect on weight loss. There's no sign that there's a direct effect of these meds on cholesterol synthesis or absorption or any of that. But weight loss is magic. When it comes to improving cholesterol.

Scott Benner 59:11
I'm going to ask one for myself. And this is about you specifically, in your practice. You deal with a lot of adults. Yes. If I was your patient, and I came in, I said, Hey, you know, here's where I'm at so far. And you've watched me for the last 13 months. And I said I want to continue to make my my body stronger and give myself the best chance to live longer if I said I don't know anything about this Dr. Blevins but should I be on some sort of a testosterone replacement? Is that a conversation you would have with me or do you not see the value?

Dr. Blevins 59:40
I would definitely have the conversation with you about that. And what I would wind up what do I do? It was I would first of all ask you about any symptoms related to low testosterone. And then I would check your levels. And then if you're low I would I would say you know your About your muscles, your mood, many things in your body will do better if you're normal. Would I put you on testosterone? If I find you to be normal? And the answer is I wouldn't. There's no evidence that putting people on testosterone who have normal levels is going to prolong life or improve things. And, and so it's another one of those benefit risk things. If the benefit, if you're low, the benefit, I think exceeds the risk, there is some risk potentially. So testosterone is not a cure all for everything. And if the levels normal, there's really no evidence that it could could help. And, you know, testosterone given to people who buy either gel injection, pellet, whatever, can have some negative kind of has some side effects and negatives. And like, they can increase the blood count, which could increase the thickness of your blood or viscosity, which could lead to stroke, things like that it gets overstimulate the prostate. That's another possibility. And I've had some people who are given testosterone who get very agitated, and that's not very often but it happens. And then we just we back off, or we stop it,

Scott Benner 1:01:10
you handled it exactly the way my doctor did. So I was just, I'm just, I was just interested in your response. Yeah. And my levels were didn't need addition. But I was in that mindset, I was like, how do I make sure that I'm stronger and fitter and have the best chance of staying alive as long as I can? Okay, so I'm gonna go to what I think is going to be a little bit of a long answer. So we'll finish with this one. Okay. This person says, I want to know the doctor's thoughts on micro dosing. GLP is specifically for people with autoimmune disease. And for people who do not need it to lose weight. My thoughts are that maybe a pharmaceutical version of these peptides, those far too high and too fast for type ones. Maybe micro dosing will negate many of the side effects, and maybe you'll get some of the inflammation, increased insulin sensitivity, and the other benefits that come along with it. I'm super interested in this because I just did an interview last week with CEOs from xirrus and beta bionics because they're working on a dual hormone pump. And I mean, honestly, what are we talking about there? We're talking about micro dosing glucagon in an insulin pump. So Exactly, yeah. So what do you think here about the idea of this possibility with GLP? Yes.

Dr. Blevins 1:02:19
You know, the micro dosing ideas are really interesting idea. And I will I'll be the algo right out and say, I'm not sure exactly what that dose is. But well, I know that means less than normal. And I would think it might be the same frequency or more frequent lower dose? Who knows, but micro dosing less than normal dosing, specifically for autoimmune diseases? And I'll say very quickly, no data? Would I do that before an autoimmune disease? Depends on which one you're talking about? Of course, some are more serious than others the answers for all of them, I guess, so is that independence? The answer is no, I wouldn't do that. I don't know, I don't have data for that. And what I use it for people who don't need to lose weight, well, that would be people who have diabetes, as to who don't need to lose weight, and some people's because it does have an effect on glucose metabolism. So I would use, the concept of micro dosing is interesting data is not available, it's all going to be personal use, and we'll really need I mean, you know, I'm a scientist, we need a study to tell us what to do anecdote is, is going to get people in trouble. And the thought the pharmaceutical dose could be dosed far too high, maybe for certain things, but not for what we're looking at that dose about right for blood sugar, and the weight loss and that, and then maybe people would have fewer side effects of micro dosing, that's true, they also may have no effect. So we really have to have a clear cut target, like, use it in someone who has a particular type of autoimmune, a group of people who have a certain kind of autoimmune condition, and have a placebo control, and use a lower dose and find out. I don't think those studies are being done, but you whoever wants to can suggest that to their people they know in the pharmaceutical industry? And would that increase some of the benefits like inflammation and sensitivity and things like that? I don't know, maybe, I think the current doses are pretty well worked out. These doses are taken from the bench to clinic, and all kinds of doses are looked at, you want a dose that actually has an effect, and it need to have a target like blood sugar or weight loss or something like that. And then you want to be sure that dose actually works. So I think the I think the current doses are effective. The concept of exploring other areas a great idea, and there are studies being done looking at like arthritis, like osteoarthritis, looking at sleep apnea. There's been some positive there already. That's about weight loss, I think. Yeah, and other other conditions, that maybe even some cognitive conditions like my Alzheimer's Could, could these meds help people, people looking at all kinds of things but until we have a good study, I don't think I would jump in and start using it that way. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:05:03
Do you think you've seen anything? Even just, you know, N of one kind of like returns? Where people have experienced less gambling habits like other addictive natures that you've heard that talked about, but do you actually say it? I

Dr. Blevins 1:05:18
have not had a person come back and tell me that they took it and they were not going to Las Vegas as often, though, I've read about that. And I think it's fascinating cravings. Appetite is a type of craving, gambling as a type of craving alcohol, and alcoholism. I know for a fact some studies are going on looking at that. Do I know results? No. But I've had a few people come back and tell me they were less interested in drinking alcohol about drinks. And there may be something there? If so I sure hope there is. But I want to see a good study, come back and tell me that that actually was true. Yeah. And it may just be it's not, it's not a consistent thing. I've asked some people, do you drink any less? And they say no. So we need something to tell us more about that.

Scott Benner 1:06:05
I've noticed this thing. I'll end with this and ask you if you've seen it, too. I think it's possible that as a society, we've become so used to people's body mass being a larger, that now I'm seeing people use these medications, get down to what looks like a very nice healthy weight. And yet the people around them are shocked and say like, Oh, my God, you're too thin put weight back on, like, bah, bah, bah. And you if you really look at them, like from a reasonable perspective, they're not too thin, they're not to anything, they just look like a healthy human being. It almost feels like that's not what people are accustomed to looking at maybe with you personally or with people in general. But I was wondering if you've seen those kind of more psychological reactions? Absolutely.

Dr. Blevins 1:06:48
That that's true. Change is something that people notice and comment on. And in historically, when people have lost weight, it's because they're sick, and cancer or something like that. And I've certainly had people comment in that direction, or have people tell me, they've, they've been told they look sick, they need to eat? Yeah, their family, their friends, I'd say here, you need to pat yourself, get some get, you know, eat and gain some weight back. Even though what you said is correct. Their weight is now more normal than ever. I would tell people in the audience expect that and understand it, and take it as a compliment. And let people know what you're doing. And if you want to

Scott Benner 1:07:34
don't let it thwart you, I've seen people, it happened to somebody around me recently, they were so pressured by the oh my god, you're losing too much weight, pressure that they started thinking about not doing the medication, I said, Look, between you and me, I need to lose 15 pounds. And maybe more, I don't know, like, I have to tell you like my ability to understand how much weight I needed to lose is completely skewed. Because I started this thing thinking 20 pounds, I'll be great. When I got that 20 pounds. I was like, I don't even look any different. And now, if I said to somebody, somebody says, Hey, you look great. I'm like, thanks, I still have 1520 pounds loose. They go, that's not possible. And I'm like, Well, I can take my shirt off and share it with you if you want. But like I definitely still need to. Yeah, I just don't want people to get thrown off by knee jerk reactions to their visual appearance.

Dr. Blevins 1:08:21
You know what I mean? I agree. Yeah. Yeah, the nice thing about it is people are concerned. And they notice and, and there is a compliment. You know, it's it's people who are concerned, they think, Oh, is there something going on? I care? I want to know, or they may be they just playing nosy, I don't know. But then you could reassure them and say, you know, and now now everybody knows about these methods, almost everybody. And you could divulge or you don't have to you don't want to maybe tell people what you're doing. You could say now that I don't have cancer. I don't have some bad disease. I'm working on weight loss, and, and, or something like that. But yeah, it's a common phenomena. And everybody should just expect it. And it's actually a real big positive, but it comes off as Oh, you look, you've lost too much weight. And of course, the answer is no, you haven't.

Scott Benner 1:09:07
Yeah. And by the way, I don't actually care about the number of my weight. I care about the fat My body's holding. That's yeah, my concern is so exact whatever I end up looking like after I'm carrying a healthy amount of fat on me, is what I'm going to look like. Right. All right. Well, Dr. Bill Evans again, this is terrific. I feel like I could just have a podcast where I chat with you about anything and it would be good. So thank you. I appreciate your time again.

Dr. Blevins 1:09:32
Scott, thank you very much. It's fun. Yeah, I've enjoyed it.

Scott Benner 1:09:35
Great. And we're gonna head back again. Is that right? Yes. Oh, excellent. Great. Great. I'm super excited. Hold on one second.

Jalen is an incredible example of what's so many experience living with diabetes. You show up for yourself and others every day, never letting diabetes define you. And that is what the Medtronic champion Community is all about. Each of us is strong and together, we're even stronger. To hear more stories from the Medtronic champion community or to share your own story visit Medtronic diabetes.com/juicebox And look out online for the hashtag Medtronic champion. Having an easy to use an accurate blood glucose meter is just one click away. Contour next one.com/juicebox That's right Today's episode is sponsored by the contour next gen blood glucose meter. We're starting to get a nice grouping of GLP focused episodes. There's a full list of them in the featured tab in the private Facebook group. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast. The episode you just heard was professionally edited by wrong way recording. Wrong way recording.com