#1180 Give a Penny, Take a Penny

Too much in this episode to list. Michael is 25 and has had type 1 diabetes since he was 7 years old. 

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Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends and welcome to episode 1180 of the Juicebox Podcast

Hey everyone, I'm back today I'll be speaking with Michael He's 25 years old has had type one diabetes since he was seven. Michael also has been a Lago Hashimotos, ADHD, anxiety and depression. We're going to talk today about Michael's experiences in college boarding school, how he's learned to be more present, and a lot more. While you're listening. Please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. If you're looking for a way to protect your finances, your identity if you need a VPN you're looking for aura you know those little ads you've seen with Robert Downey Jr. You know, Iron Man, right? Or a.com/juice box use my link you can get a free 14 day trial of ORA don't forget to save 40% off of your entire order at cozy earth.com All you have to do is use the offer code juice box at checkout that's juice box at checkout to save 40% at cosy earth.com If you're looking for community find that Juicebox Podcast private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes, we're coming up on 50 to one oh no, we got like over 50,000 members. That's crazy. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the Dexcom G seven made for all types of diabetes Dexcom G seven can be used to manage type one, type two, and gestational diabetes, you're going to see the speed, direction and number of your blood sugar right on your receiver or smartphone device. dexcom.com/juice box Have you been experiencing the fear of missing out on Omni pod? Foo? If you haven't, it's easy to get rid of. Omni pod.com/juice box that's right. This episode of the podcast is sponsored by the Omni pod five. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by ever since the ever since CGM is more convenient, requiring only one sensor every six months. It offers more flexibility with its easy on Easy Off smart transmitter and allows you to take a break when needed. Ever since cgm.com/juice. Box.

Michael 2:30
Hello, my name is Michael and I'm 25 years old. And let's let's get started again,

Scott Benner 2:39
it's a perfect start. Sometimes people get confused and think they have to tell me their whole life story in the first 30 set. Yeah, Michael, you're 25 you have type one?

Michael 2:46
Yes. One.

Scott Benner 2:48
How old? were you when you were diagnosed?

Michael 2:49
I was seven. So it's been 18 years. Okay.

Scott Benner 2:53
You're 25 you're diagnosed me you were seven? And do you have anything else going on besides type one?

Michael 3:00
I've got I think before the diabetes, I was diagnosed with vitiligo when I was I think around the age of four or five. Okay, and then the diabetes at seven. And then I've had Hashimotos for I don't know how long I don't really remember when I started taking the medication for it. But I just got confirmation a few months ago that I indeed had Hashimotos I only thought I had just hypothyroidism. Right.

Scott Benner 3:30
But they said it's autoimmune. Yeah. Did they find the lumps on it? Is that what they did? No. We

Michael 3:37
did the the antibody blood bloodwork. Okay.

Scott Benner 3:40
Okay, what prompted you to do the bloodwork did because it didn't change the management at all right?

Michael 3:45
No, no, nothing really changed. I think it just, I just wanted to know for sure. Because I don't think I ever got an answer from previous doctors. And because I hadn't really my medication like the amount of levothyroxine I've been taking has stayed the same since I've been taking it. So I was like, Maybe I should see if, you know, maybe I need to go up and maybe it's, you know, if it is autoimmune, that means that's slowly getting worse and worse. So well, I just wanted to see if that was the case. Where does your TSH stay? Last I checked, which was a couple months ago, it was like the high twos. So not terrible. You

Scott Benner 4:25
could stand a little more maybe? Yeah, you know, it's sometimes good doctors. Like even if they can't go up a full pill. Some doctors will just tell you like, Listen, this is not me telling somebody what to do now. Yeah, but it could be as easy as an extra pill once a month. You'd be surprised how they can manipulate it like the ones that really understand the dosing of it.

Michael 4:47
Yeah, that's what I've been last. Last time I went to the Endo. i He was just like, I already I already had enough of like my 50 milligram pills. He's just like, I don't want to have to have you throw those away. So just every other day take two and so that's what I've been doing. If I remember to take it in the morning

Scott Benner 5:06
gotta remember Michael Don't Don't Don't make me parent util I got enough going on here. Okay. Okay, so vit a Lago type one Hashimotos.

Michael 5:18
I mean, that's pretty much it and autoimmune. Bad got. Yeah, no, I mean, considering Yeah, not bad at all. Yeah. And I don't really have any, like adverse effects from the vitiligo, it's just, it's not really in any super visible parts. So it's not like I really have to worry about sunburn, or it's not really and it's like, I'm obviously very white. So like, it doesn't really,

Scott Benner 5:43
yeah, I'm looking at you today. You're already a fairly pale person. So

Michael 5:48
yeah, and I think it is going around my eyes a little bit, but you can't really tell because of our glasses most of the time. Yeah.

Scott Benner 5:54
Honestly see the dark circles under my eyes? I maybe it'd be great if I could. Could I just get a little right. I guess you don't get to pick where it goes, right.

Michael 6:02
No, no. I mean, yeah. I mean, it'll just kind of spread where it wants to go. Yeah,

Scott Benner 6:07
that's a shame. I could use a I don't want to wear makeup. But there are times I see myself in photos. And I'm like, am I a person who has to wear makeup? is just so dark? Oh, my gosh. Well, let's talk a little bit about it then. So what do you remember about your diagnosis? Or do you not? I

Michael 6:24
remember, it was in August of, I guess what? 2005 I remember that summer, just, I was going to the bathroom a ton. I mean, like the typical, like using the bathroom a lot drinking tons of water. That was wetting the bed, you know, at seven years old, which isn't, you know, typical. And like, I specifically remember, we went to Walmart one time. And before we left, I was like, I gotta use the bathroom. And then within like, the 10 minute car ride to go back home. I was about to pee my pants again. I had to like, you know, the car was basically still moving, hopped out the car went went in the house and, and use the restroom. And so that went on for I don't know, maybe like a month or two before my parents were like, there's something. There's something up and my my cousin was diagnosed with type one, like, four or five months before I was really okay. And he was like two years old. I think so pretty young. And so they had some idea that like, maybe this is, maybe this is what's going on. And so they went in for the blood test. And my blood sugar was I think it was like in the seven hundreds.

Scott Benner 7:34
Oh, god. Yeah, that's that's pretty. You said a month at least the urinating was going on? Right.

Michael 7:39
I mean, from what I can remember, my memory isn't great. So I think it went it went. It went on for a good, definitely a couple of weeks. Okay.

Scott Benner 7:50
Yeah. And so your parents kind of recognized that because of your cousin, do you think or I mean, they just recognized in general, something was up. I think

Michael 7:59
at first, it was just some things up just in general. I haven't really asked a lot of specifics about like that that time. That's just what I remember. Okay.

Scott Benner 8:10
And there's some stuff here and your note to me, that I think of is autoimmune related. So kind of tell me about that. Because you said very specifically, you're like, well, that's the end of those. That segment of my concerns, but you have others, right? Yeah. You want to share them? Yeah, I've got or do you want me to?

Michael 8:29
Oh, yeah. I mean, yeah, if you want to, I don't really remember what I what I wrote down. Okay. Well, it sounds like almost a year ago,

Scott Benner 8:35
I have here ADHD? Oh, yeah. Is that diagnosed?

Michael 8:40
Yes. Yes, it is. And it's a recent, like, within the last, like, two years or so?

Scott Benner 8:46
Is that a thing you think you've always dealt with?

Michael 8:48
Yeah, I think so. I think it's just something that I mean, it's, you know, maybe presented itself in a different way. When I was a kid, you know, I found ways to deal with it. And, I mean, I'm not saying that my parents like didn't recognize it, but maybe they just didn't know that, you know, like it because it wasn't the kid that was bouncing off the walls. And like, you know, I was a very quiet kid. And so I think that they were just like, well, that's, that's just not it.

Scott Benner 9:12
You know, when you look back, how does it feel like it impacted you?

Michael 9:15
I think I mean, paying attention in school. I mean, I was not a good student, pretty much all throughout until I went to college, until I got to, like, take classes that I like, actually wanted to take. Just like couldn't pay attention. I mean, my handwriting is terrible. It's like, couldn't I mean, taking notes on top of terrible handwriting was just like, I couldn't read anything, because

Scott Benner 9:35
you don't pay attention while you're writing. To what you're ugly.

Michael 9:39
Oh, I'm writing so fast. I'm trying to keep up that I'm like, Oh, this is and it's sideways. And it's, it's all blending together.

Scott Benner 9:45
I lose the interest while I'm writing.

Michael 9:48
Yeah, yeah. I'll start writing a list. I'm like, I don't I can just do this. I'll just remember and then I don't

Scott Benner 9:54
remember when I'm handwriting by the way. Like I just had to write something pretty voluminous. As for the internet, and I can sit down and, like pay 100% attention to it for as long as it takes. I don't have ADHD, like, like, I can just sit down and do my thing. But I am not interested in things I'm not interested in. That's for certain. Yeah. And I swear to you while I'm writing, while I'm making the letters with my hand, I'm like, Ah, and then I'll just squiggly line it, because I've just already annoyed that I've, I've spent this much time with it. Yeah. So I think sometimes those things can be a mixture, you know what I mean? Like, yes. And yes, maybe you have ADHD? And you do, but like, is that part of it? Or is that just who you are like to me like, like, it's hard to try to pick through all of it and try to figure out as my point. Yeah,

Michael 10:44
no, I'm constantly thinking back on all these like, little little things that I'm like, oh, that's just something that I did. Which is like it like it is, you know, it's not, you know, it's not like, if I didn't have ADHD, I wouldn't have all these other things that I'm, you know, that make me who I am. But just like, all the little things, the more I think about it, and like this is all starting to, you know, the pieces are coming together. And it makes sense, right? This

Scott Benner 11:10
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Michael 12:43
mean, I forget a lot of things. I mean, a big one is I always I would I mean I still forget to like Pre-Bolus You know, and it's been, you know, 18 years, and it's like, no matter how much I think about it, I just I'll just forget. And just like it's that stuff where it's just like, This is my you know, this is for the sake of my health and you know, safety as a person I will not remember. Or like taking my my medications in the morning or remembering, you know, not being able to leave for work on time even though it's like the same time every day. I know what to expect. I don't play plan ahead. Sometimes.

Scott Benner 13:24
Yeah. Okay. Next here on your list is depression. So is that is that clinical depression is a diagnosis. It's something you manage with medication or how does that impact you?

Michael 13:34
Um, yeah, it was it was diagnosed and it's, I was on a few other medications. I think, while I'm still taking one, I can't remember what it's called Bupropion. I said, Oh, that's that's the generic I think it's like Wellbutrin, Wellbutrin. Okay. So I've been taking that for maybe like two years or so. And I think that also helps with with anxiety and it's supposed to have some minor assistance with ADHD, which I'm not sure if it if it really it's hard for me to, to notice some of those things. Sure. But yeah, I take that and that it helps, I think, and, I mean, there's a lot of other things that that help that aren't, you know, medication. But it does, it does help. It's not really as bad as like, ADHD or anxiety. Where did you first see that your life? I think, probably starting in high school and college, I think just being more on my own, because I went to a boarding school for high school. So I was, I mean, not on my own, but I mean, I was living, you know, in a dorm with another kid that I didn't know at 13 and it was, you know, trying to deal with school. You know, being a bad student on top of, you know, doing being a pretty strict boarding school was difficult. Hold Up first,

Scott Benner 15:00
how did you end up at a boarding school if you weren't, like I think of boarding school is like a place where you send like motivated academic kids to flourish. Or maybe they're also places where you send kids who don't pay attention to try to get them to pay attention is that the other side of it? That's not

Michael 15:13
what it was, for me at least, that's how I, that's how I remember it. When I went there. My, I think all the public school that I would have gone to where I used to live, wouldn't have been great, I think. And so I, my brother went to the same high school. And so I think, you know, I maybe I had the illusion of choice to go there. And so I had, I had it in my mind that I did want to go there because like, Oh, this is cool. You know, it's like college, but earlier. And so it wasn't, it was just a, it's like a college prep, high school. So it wasn't anything specific. It wasn't like, like a military academy, like some of the other boarding schools in the area. And it was co ed. So it wasn't like, you know, boys only or anything. So

Scott Benner 16:00
when you get there, the experience is not good for you. I mean, it was

Michael 16:04
it was very exciting. But it was stressful. Because there was like freshmen, you know, you have to get up every morning to go to the office, like sign in to breakfast and like, you know, because they want to make sure you're getting up and getting class on time. And, you know, living with somebody else who isn't really your friend, you know, and just being kind of monitored, almost, you know, 24/7, kind of and, but I overall I really enjoy the experience. Okay, because I'm not a I'm not a rule breaker by any means. So it wasn't hard for me to follow the rules. Yeah, I

Scott Benner 16:44
would I think I'd be terrible that I immediately be like, What do I gotta say, I don't have to sign it for breakfast. That sounds ridiculous. I'm not doing that. I bet you'd get me at the very first thing on the very first day. But did you find like, so you think that's where your depression started to grow, though?

Michael 17:00
Maybe I think just like, kind of, you know, being less alone. And it's not like, I'm not a really

Scott Benner 17:10
social person, either. Oh, okay. So so then there's a lot of time in the day, where it's very solitary for you. Actually, not

Michael 17:17
really, which is kind of what what helped, because since it was it was a very small boarding school about 200 students. And so you kind of did everything with all the other students, everybody knew each other, which was nice. Okay. And it was an international school. So there were kids all over the world from all over the world, which was I really enjoyed that. I think, just in addition to the ADHD, I mean, obviously, there they go hand in hand. And so like being just, like, stressed out about schoolwork, and like, you know, why am I even? Why do I have to learn this? Why, you know, why is it so hard for me to learn this? No, why can't I get this right kind of feeling? Was Was there a lot that how

Scott Benner 17:57
does the depression, the depression manifest itself with you?

Michael 18:01
I think it's just like, I mean, it's not really anything super specific. It's just kind of like an over overarching kind of like, I don't, I don't feel great. No, it's not like necessarily sadness. But it's just kind of like a, I don't know, like, what am I? What am I doing? Why is this not? Why isn't this working?

Scott Benner 18:20
So did you have that, that overall gloom feeling that some people describe the Dexcom g7 is sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast, and it features a lightning fast 30 minute warmup time, that's right from the time you put on the Dexcom g7. Till the time you're getting readings, 30 minutes, that's pretty great. It also has a 12 hour grace period, so you can swap your sensor when it's convenient for you. All that on top of it being small, accurate, incredibly wearable, and light. These things, in my opinion, make the Dexcom g7. a no brainer. The Dexcom g7 comes with way more than just this. Up to 10. People can follow you, you can use it with type one, type two, or gestational diabetes, it's covered by all sorts of insurances. And this might be the best part, it might be the best part alerts and alarms that are customizable so that you can be alerted at the levels that makes sense to you. dexcom.com/juicebox links in the show notes links at juicebox podcast.com to Dexcom and all the sponsors. When you use my links, you're supporting the production of the podcast and helping to keep it free and plentiful. You know, if you dream about walking past the doorknob without getting your insulin pump tubing caught or fantasize about jumping into a swimming pool without having to disconnect from your pump first. You may have FOMO fear of missing out on Omni pod. I know you wish you could wear any outfit you want with that to pump that you have button doesn't fit everywhere. Not like an omni pod would. The good news is you don't have to suffer from food move any longer, all you have to do is go to my link, Omni pod.com/juice box, I see a lot of people in my private Facebook group talking about their love of on the pod five, you may have seen those conversations as well, if you've had you found yourself thinking I'm missing out, you don't have to miss out any longer Omni pod.com/juice box head over there now read all about the Omni pod five, and get started today. Just everything feels like a rainy day all the time kind of thing. Yeah,

Michael 20:31
I mean, it wasn't anything until after, like, being in school helps because I was so busy. So I didn't really have a lot of like time where I could just do something like and or like, and do nothing, like there wasn't that much opportunity to do nothing. Same thing with college, like just so much work. And so it was more like after college, that things were like, you know, Okay, I gotta find a job, I gotta, you know, we got to do all this other, you know, responsibilities of, you know, living on our own. And I was able, I am able to kind of shake it off a little bit easier. Now, that's because of the because of the medication or it's because I have no more hobbies now or, or something. But so

Scott Benner 21:23
as you saw when you were busy as a younger person, it wasn't too bad. It was there. Get out of school, and the new pressure. I mean, finding a job and feeling like you have to take care of yourself for the rest of your life. All that stuff. That's there. You also you're managing your diabetes by yourself. When you're 30. Morning school. That's tough. Yeah,

Michael 21:44
yeah, that was tough, because I was never really great. managing it. To begin with, I was kind of pretty much on my own. Not on my own. But I was I was taking it on pretty much right away from when I was like eight or nine. Okay, I kind of did everything. Mostly on my own. I couldn't do the pot, the pump injections by myself at her too much. I was too scared to do that. But like, you know, giving myself insulin at school and stuff. I did that all by myself. I didn't go to the nurse or anything. And so that so that and not being great at it, and then being at school by myself with no one else who has type one. Not really anyone to like to talk about it. Yeah. Or to like explain, like, why this is hard to that. That was a big part of it to

Scott Benner 22:33
come from a big family.

Michael 22:34
I've got one brother, he's 10 years older. And I've got nine cousins. Pretty much all my family that's in the US is on my mom's side. And it's decently sized. It's probably about like 20 people. But that's pretty much it. And then I've got some some distant and like my grandparents live over in Sweden.

Scott Benner 22:57
But oh, that's your background? A lot of autoimmune there. Yeah, yeah. About that. Okay. So your brother's 10 years older than you because I was trying to imagine. I'm not judging anybody. But I was trying to imagine like, where, how do I if I'm your parents, like, how do I make the leap and descending my 13 year old type one off to school by themselves? But they have a different sensibility than I do. They're from? They're from a place where that's pretty common.

Michael 23:25
Yeah, well, I mean, my, so it's just my dad is from Sweden. My mom's from just from the Midwest. And, and so and he, he's lived in the US since he was, like, 19, or 18. I don't I don't think that was really the case. I think it was just they thought I was taking good care of it. By myself, you know, but I would, you know, they don't they didn't know the whole story. You know, they weren't necessarily checking all my records. I mean, they would go with me to the doctor and see, not only are your numbers aren't great, but my agencies were never terrible. So I was kind of, you know, barely, you know, coasting through,

Scott Benner 24:04
right. But you say I'm trying and they believe you and then it kind of just gets pushed on to the next appointment.

Michael 24:08
Yeah, or, like, you know, I would, you know, they would see that I would, you know, or like a few instances, they would pick me up from school. And then I would realize getting into the car that four hours ago, I didn't dose for lunch, you know, and then I would dose and they'd hear the pump clicking any like, oh, did you forget and like, like, No, this is for something else. And you know, that would and then so then you know they would get upset or you know, or angry with me and so then I would feel bad because I forgot

Scott Benner 24:38
that it just compounds when you talk about that even now at your age now. You forget to Pre-Bolus Does that does that mean like you're literally in the kitchen cooking, and it just never occurs to you and then you sit down you think oh my god, or is it that you're like you're not thinking about food at all. Then you just decide to eat and jump right into food like that question makes sense. both. It's

Michael 25:02
both of those. So like, if I'm cooking, and it's like the foods right in front of me, and I know when it's going to be done. I know when I'm going to start eating, I'll get through the meal completely. And I'm like, I didn't, I didn't do anything. I don't even know what my number is not

Scott Benner 25:14
even before. Okay, like, you've just don't have diabetes, when it comes to food when you forget. There

Michael 25:19
are there yeah, there are a lot of moments like that, where I'm like, I totally just am not aware of it for you know, maybe it's a half an hour, hour at a time. And it's like, I know, it's like, in the back of my head is there. And it's like, you know, I have I have a Dexcom I have, I have the glucose lights in my inner house. So I can see everything. It's right in front of me, but I just, it just totally just blows right past doesn't

Scott Benner 25:41
prompt you at all. And it's not apathy. Right? Like, it's, it's a thing that when you're talking about it, you're disappointed that it's not happening. It's not like you're like, I don't care. It just isn't happening.

Michael 25:52
Yeah, like, I mean, sure, there are some points where I'm like, I know, I can't deal with this right now. And it's like, but that only happens if it's like, you know, three in the morning, my blood sugar's a little high on like, I can't, I don't even know where my pump is, like, it's downstairs or something I don't. Like that'll happen every once in a while. But it's never like, I don't care. I don't care if my blood sugar's high, I don't care if I'm low, it's like, I know that if it's high for long enough, I'm gonna feel like, you know, crap for, you know, for like, for sometimes until the next day,

Scott Benner 26:22
I went Arden was home from college recently. It just something I forget what it was, honestly. But I had the feeling like we should test her blood sugar in the middle of the night. And I went into her room. And I was like, I'm not going to wake her up, I'll just do it. And I couldn't find her bag. It was just nowhere. And the next thing I know, I'm like, I'm in the kitchen in my underwear looking around. And I'm like, it's here under something. And I all I could think is, how could she go to bed without this? But then I listened to your perspective. And I was like, what's easy, right? Because, I mean, you don't want to deal with it all the time. You don't want to always be thinking about it, you know? So, I mean, I got it in the moment. But what you just said made me think of that, that situation again, just the like, how, like, I was like, I don't understand how you could come upstairs without this and lay down like what if, what if you need it? And she just doesn't see it the same way. You know? It's interesting. I mean, not to say that nine times out of 10 The bag is not right there. It because it is but the one time that was and I was like oh my god, like I was incredulous. I was like, how could this possibly. But you hear that? You're like, yeah, that makes sense to me. Yeah,

Michael 27:27
I mean, I do that with mean with all kinds of things. I mean, it's not just you know, to be like all like, you know, wandering water all day. And I'm like my water bottles full. Nice ice cold water right next to me. That's just like, it does not come across my mind.

Scott Benner 27:41
But you think that's ADHD?

Michael 27:44
I mean, I think that has something to do with it. Because it's I think the type that I have is inattentive. ADHD, and you know that like they don't call it add anymore. I don't think it's like inattentive ADHD. And so it's just like, you're not, you're not always able to, like, focus on what's directly in front of you what you're exactly focused on, right in the moment, it's hard for me to focus on things that aren't right in front of me, like, you know, the the next meal the next, like, f5 to get to work, but like thinking a few hours ahead of time. It's like, it's it can be difficult. I'm

Scott Benner 28:16
not discounting your experience, but I feel like you're, I feel like you're describing everyone on the planet. So yeah,

Michael 28:22
no, no, no, yeah. I'm not saying Yeah.

Scott Benner 28:26
If everybody if everybody right now who didn't drink as much as they meant to today, could raise their hand wherever they're at in their car. I think I think everyone listening is now not holding on to the steering wheel anymore. So yeah, I mean, it's, I don't know, I do beat yourself up about it. With the diabetes

Michael 28:42
stuff I do. Because it's like, it's like, sure, I don't have really any. I don't have any, you know, complications or anything. Really, I haven't really noticed anything major. But it's like, I know that it's going to catch up. If I if I keep doing this. And it's like, I'll do everything right for like two days. And then, you know, if I forget one time, then it's like, the cycle is broken. And it's, you know, it's really hard for me to get back into it. Does any sort of routine

Scott Benner 29:09
is difficult. What's your agency right now?

Michael 29:12
Last time, it was a couple months ago? 6.1 No, it's

Scott Benner 29:16
amazing. And what about your variability? Like, what's your standard deviation? You know, probably

Michael 29:20
a lot. I bounced around a lot. Okay, it's so

Scott Benner 29:25
as is and that's the part you're where you're more worried about is that if you could just remember to Pre-Bolus You wouldn't jump up and you wouldn't be bouncing around and doing all that stuff. Yeah,

Michael 29:32
yeah, it's a bouncing around. I just don't I don't like having to chase that all the time. I mean, it's not constant. Like when I'm at work, it's not really bouncing around that much. Unless my you know, the pods on the last last day and it's not working very well.

Scott Benner 29:47
Okay. I know I take all your points and I mean, although look even a bouncing six one, we don't want you bouncing but man, you know, you deserve a lot of credit. That's fantastic.

Michael 29:58
Yeah, and Well and that's mostly before that it was like 7.8 like a couple of months before that horrific and that was because I got on the on the pod five

Scott Benner 30:08
on the pod fight I've been from a seven eight to a six one. Pretty

Michael 30:12
much I didn't really change that much. Wow. I think the overnights which is like what everyone's what everybody says the overnights really help. Just like if I mess up a Bolus, and I'm you know, on the high, two hundreds, almost three hundreds, they were bringing you back down to 120 at a time a week up. If I don't if I don't catch it.

Scott Benner 30:30
That's wonderful. Good for you. I'm just noticing because we're on camera today, I've lost weight. But I haven't thrown out all of my shirts that don't fit me anymore. And I'm like, I can't stop looking at like, how big this t shirt is all I thought when I looked up that as soon as we're done doing this, I'm throwing the shirt. Yeah. Here's the last part of your note. And I'm I'm endlessly fascinated with this. So I'm gonna dig into it with you. All right. What is the potential autism diagnosis mean? I,

Michael 30:59
I mean, I know that like this is a, I don't know, weird to say a trendy thing right now. But like,

Scott Benner 31:06
You're not wrong, by the way, the amount of people I hear that, that like, kind of like, blindly say, Oh, I'm a little autistic. And I think they mean it. Like I think they they're being sincere. It's gone. It's gone up significantly. Like, like the amount of times you hear people say it. I don't know if I want to say like a social contagion or not. But you do wonder, because people, and I don't think this is I'm not saying this to you, and I want to hear your story. But I do think sometimes people just want a thing. Yeah,

Michael 31:35
they want they want to they want a label to it. They want a reason for me. Like, this is why I'm acting like this and like kind of like a thing to put it on. Yeah,

Scott Benner 31:43
I think that I do. I also by the way, this isn't you. But I've just as a side note, but I've also seen people who feel left out. So they start trying to attribute some of their personalities to something and they go look, I have this like, oh God, is it important for you to have something? You know, like, but but that's not this. So tell me what brings you to that thought first? Is somebody come to you and say it? Or is that a feeling you'd have on your own?

Michael 32:07
I mean, it's it's a little bit of both. It's something that I feel on my own. I've been with my my current girlfriend for almost six years now. And there are a lot of things that she has noticed about me that she has also noticed about herself, that, that we have kind of been like, this isn't, neither of us have a ton of friends. And like, I'm I don't know, I mean, there's I mean, there's a lot. I mean, there's, you know, obviously it is a spectrum of sorts, and it's hard to get, you know, a diagnosis, and there are just a lot of things that on top of the ADHD, all this the social anxieties and, and things that can be attributed to that. And it's like part of it is like I need I want something to be like, this isn't just who I am. There's something. No

Scott Benner 32:58
reason why this is happening. Yeah.

Michael 33:01
And it's like, that's what I've always wanted to know, what

Scott Benner 33:05
is it that's happening? Like, what do you mean? Like social anxiety? What's that? First of all, for you? Like,

Michael 33:11
I mean, it's just like, I can't talk to people if I don't. If there's no reason for me to, like, I haven't absolutely no desire to, like talk to people, sometimes.

Scott Benner 33:27
It feels like a thing you don't want to admit. Yeah.

Michael 33:28
Because it's like, it feels like I feel bad thinking this like or if like if I'm at, like, even if it's like someone in my family or someone at work. I'm like, I make myself ask them how their weekend was no kind of thing which is like, but it's like, deep down. I really don't care. But let's like I do as I want to care, but I don't right. Like I would be totally fine. Not talking to anybody all day except for my girlfriend.

Scott Benner 33:56
Michael, I gotta tell you again, I don't know that you're much different than anybody else. So like, but it strikes you hard. I'm looking at you. It seems upsetting to you that you don't care about their weekend. I don't. Can I be clear, I don't care about anybody's weekend either. So none of us do. It's not that we don't care. It's that we don't have time to care. And I mean, if we were all living in a yurt together, then that's the right poll, right isn't a you're a giant tent that hippies living? Yes. If we were all living in a yurt together, then I might say to you, hey, what's going on my goal? And I'd really care because I wouldn't have anything else filling up my brain. But you're 25 you're with somebody, you live in a place that from what I can tell looks clean. So you've got like stuff to do that you have responsibilities. You're working a job, there's probably things you enjoy doing with your free time. And you're out of time to worry about how Jim and accountings like weekend win, but you're such a decent person you're upset for not caring about his weekend. Am I right about that? Like am I characterizing that pretty close to correctly? Yeah,

Michael 34:58
no, you Yeah, it's that's definitely the lie. I am in no way saying that I am like the only one No, no

Scott Benner 35:05
that like this is yeah, but let me stop you, Michael even there. Yeah, you're concerned that, that we're discounting how other people feel while we're having this conversation. You don't need to concern yourself with how they feel like we're just talking about you and me. You know what I mean? And they're listening in. But we're not, we're not saying, See, this is a, you're young. So you don't know this, okay. But this is a fairly new phenomenon in the last like, 10 years, where we all have to pressure ourselves to be worried about how you feel about what I'm saying. Like that didn't used to be a thing. If you were 40 years old, and we were having this conversation right now. You'd be like, I don't know, man, I don't care how people's weekends go. And that would be the end of it, and you go, but I heard about this. And I'm wondering if maybe I got a touch of this. And that would have, that's how our conversation would go, it would never occur to you or to me to worry that someone hearing it could be offended or upset by it. That is a fairly new phenomenon. It burdens you like I mean, it's burdened you a couple of times in the last half an hour already, like you're worried about other people, you know what I mean? Which is nice. But not to the level where it where it impacts you. I care about other people. I hope they have a good weekend. I don't want anything bad to happen to them. If it does, it's not my fault. And if I can't help or can't do anything about it, I can't shoulder that burden with me. So are you an incredibly like empathic person? Yeah,

Michael 36:35
I think so. I, but there's certain things where I care so much more about other people versus, you know, my, myself. And it's hard to like, I don't care what other people think, or I don't care how other people are feeling. I just want to do what's good for me right now. I understand what it's like, really, I can't get hurt. It's like, almost almost impossible for me to do that.

Scott Benner 37:05
Because it feels like you're, you're doing something to them. Like it feels like an affront to other people that you're not spending your time worried about them.

Michael 37:16
Is that right? Yeah, yeah. Or just like making sure that they're, like, it's, I mean, this is mostly a thing with my girlfriend, and I like I will take on as much as I can. So that she doesn't have as much to worry about, you know? Because, like, I'd rather me do it, because I can deal with it maybe a little bit more than she can. So that it's not as hard for her like her as an example.

Scott Benner 37:43
Does she have other struggles? Like are some that are similar to yours?

Michael 37:47
Yeah, I mean, she, she is she's got chronic migraines. And I mean, she's on medication for it now, which helps a lot. But she's got she's got a lot of chronic pain, and headaches, migraines, and pretty severe depression, and anxiety like myself. So there are a lot of things that can overwhelm her more than they will overwhelm me. And so I'll try to like, I just try to do as much as I can. Does that

Scott Benner 38:17
create an echo chamber? Like does does it bounce around like sonar? Does her anxiety bounce into you, that causes your anxiety to bounce back to her that makes her feel depressed? Because you're not happy? That makes you feel depressed? Because she's depressed? Like, does it just keep feeding itself like that? It

Michael 38:31
can, I will try my best to, like, reassure her that, like, you know, that, you know, or that I am okay. And, you know, if that's me, you know, lying to her that I'm, you know, maybe I'm not maybe I'm more anxious than I put on, or I'm more, you know, worried about something. Because usually the things I'm anxious or worried about are, it's never a big deal normally, and so but like the things that she's worried about are usually it is totally make sense for her to be worried about these things and to want to, you know, figure these these things out and get, you know, whatever, these things, these things fixed, and are

Scott Benner 39:08
they the kinds of things that in truth, if you push them, like if you could convince her that they were okay, and she didn't think about them anymore? Are they the kinds of things that really wouldn't cause a problem?

Michael 39:18
I think that they still would, because some of these things are like the real impactors, then

Scott Benner 39:23
not, not stuff that falls under that, like, I have a motto that one of my one of one of the things that I kind of like I model some of the things I do after and one of them is often the best thing to do is nothing. Yeah, so and and it works like you know, you're moderating a Facebook page or dealing with business stuff or a lot of times the best thing to do is nothing goes away and it's never a problem, but you're talking about real things that would actually be like negatively impactful if they weren't managed, but yet their day to day things that a lot of people just handle without incidents but it's tougher for you guys. Is that right? Yeah,

Michael 40:03
like, you know, you know, maybe it's deciding what we want to eat for dinner, you know, it's just like, it's hard for us to think about, like a week at a time versus a day at a time. You know, so like, stuff like that it can, like, I used to get really upset when I couldn't decide what to make for dinner, which is like, it sounds, you know, I obviously know how that sounds like, it sounds ridiculous. And it sounds are like, you know, if things don't work out, as well as I want it to. And it's like, not that big of a deal. I'll just get like, I'm like unreasonably upset if it's something like in my personal life, or if it's at work.

Scott Benner 40:43
So let's say that that is autism for a second, let's just suppose that this right. You need somebody to teach you how to how to deal with that stuff. Right? Yeah. So you need services, I imagine that would identify this and then help. Yeah, and but it's you and her by yourself, your are your parents involved in your life anymore?

Michael 41:05
They are I don't talk to them that much. Because pretty much ever since going to boarding school, we kind of went by the no news is good news motto. I would only call them if I needed something. Or if they just you know, or you know, at most every, you know, twice a month, we would call and talk. But it's just like I

Scott Benner 41:26
device like your mom right now how you worship like, Oh my God, He's great. He's got a job. He's got a girlfriend, they got a nice place. Like, that's how she would respond. Right? Yeah. Does she know all this stuff about you? I

Michael 41:38
mean, she knows. I mean, they've known about the, the anxiety for that was like my first like, you know, you know, it's, I guess, mental health diagnosis. When I when I was a kid, because it used to be really bad. Like, I used to go to a diabetes camp in the summer. And it was like a four hour drive. And the morning of the entire car ride I was, I was incredibly sick and nauseous and I would throw up. And like, every time we would travel, I would get, you know, just, I would get sick. I couldn't eat the day before I couldn't sleep. You know, and that's not as much of a problem anymore, but it still was throughout high school and college. Like the first day of class was like, you know,

Scott Benner 42:24
it was terrible. either of your parents like this. Like, do they have personalities that are similar? Yeah,

Michael 42:29
my my mom and I have some things that are in common. And my dad night to my dad's also very quiet. My my brother and I are pretty much like the same person. So that's kind of nice to kind of have someone to talk to you about some of the stuff. Yeah,

Scott Benner 42:44
you can talk to your brother about it. Yeah, it's great. Even he's 10 years older than you. Ah, yeah. So he's 35. That's good for you. Because he's been through a lot that he can kind of relate back to you. I would imagine how he's worked on. Yeah. Is he married? Yes. Yeah, this is unfair. But is he married to a person who's similar to him? It's unfair, because he's not on here. But I don't and I won't ask more than that. Because you've found a person who understands your stuff, because they have the same stuff that he has to do the same thing?

Michael 43:12
I'm not sure if that's nice. I mean, they are they are pretty similar. Okay. But they're not. I don't think that they are like the same person by any means. Okay. I think that she is very understanding, just like, I think, yeah, just very understanding of like, all the things that you know, that he has going on. Okay. Which is really all you can ask for.

Scott Benner 43:33
Yeah. So I'm sorry. So back to my initial thought was, you don't have somebody that you? Well, you do have somebody to your brother, just not your parents, that you could go to and say, Hey, these are the issues I'm having. I need. I think I need help. I don't really know where to go for that help. Like, have you tried saying that to him?

Michael 43:49
Yeah, yeah, I have, because he's gone through a little bit more than that. I have, he was diagnosed with bipolar disorder, like, I don't know, maybe six or seven years ago, maybe more, I don't know, the exact date. And so he's had his fair share of, of therapy, and, you know, going into a hospital for for that, and, you know, staying there for, you know, a week or so and like, dealing with that on top of trying to explain that to our parents.

Scott Benner 44:22
That was going on. Yeah,

Michael 44:25
I mean, I know that it did not go that that well, because they don't you know, people have, you know, my parents generation. I mean, obviously, this is well known that like they don't fully understand the severity of some

Scott Benner 44:39
mental health issues. Issues. Yeah. And they also I mean, I think it can be it can be common for people to not want their children to have problems to begin with. You know, yeah, so saying I've learned this Oh, no, you just you just don't like car rides. Like that kind of stuff. You know what I mean? Like because that's probably how they remember because it honestly, when you're vomiting on the way to like, diabetes camp. They're not thinking, Oh, that's a really anxious kid I got there. They don't see it that way. You don't I mean, yeah, so it makes sense. Wow, man. That's a lot. You overwhelmed me for a second. So don't feel bad. I know you're gonna feel bad. I don't feel bad. I'm alright. Don't worry, the internet already attacked me today. You can't hurt me. I'm good. Every once in a while the internet likes to come for me. Did I seem to be the day? Wow, what made you want to come on the podcast?

Michael 45:32
i Sorry. No, Michael, I

Scott Benner 45:35
didn't know you're gonna emotional. Go ahead. Take your time. It's fine. It's fine. Do you want me to cry? Would it help if we were both crying? Because I'll do it. I can cry it through the face for three more seconds, I'm gonna cry just to get us. Like it's okay.

Michael 45:47
Take your time. Yeah, it's just that this No, listening to this podcast has helped a lot. Because I've been I've been listening for a couple of years at this point. And just like, you know, I want to be able to do that same thing for you know, someone else, you know, even if it's just that one other person, you know, that maybe has something similar. I'm like, you know, because like, I've had some some friends that are that are diabetic. But like, obviously, going to camp was like, probably one of the best things I could have done. I went consistently for like, like, 15 years in a row. And so I think just having someone like, like you, who is, you know, taking this, this thing, and just making it that much more manageable. And like, you know, even if it's just, you know, having people who don't have diabetes, understand, you know, just all the different perspectives decided just wanted to be a part of it. Because I'm not very active in, like, on the Facebook group, or, or, or anything. I think the only time I posted on there was because I ran out of pods and insurance and send me more, try to see if I could get some but

Scott Benner 47:21
not an uncommon. So let me make sure I understand. I think I do. And you made me cry. So I'm good. Now. Now we're going to cry. You found this connection that it's giving to you. And you recognize that the reason there's value in it for you is because other people come on and tell their stories and you want to add to it. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Well, thank you. And like,

Michael 47:45
because because like, I know that, you know, you know, I may not be the only one who has this exact, you know, experience, but everyone's got something a little bit different, you know, and everyone's got a different combo of, you know, autoimmune diseases and, you know, mental health issues and, you know, different different stages of their life.

Scott Benner 48:03
Right. Well, I think you'd be surprised by how many people have your combo, actually. Yeah,

Michael 48:07
you know, yeah.

Scott Benner 48:10
It's, I mean, you know, and I would know, without making the podcast for certain, but it's incredibly common, the, the anxiety, depression part, along with the autoimmune stuff, just like even when you said your brother had a bipolar diagnosis. It was hard for me not to say yeah, like, doesn't surprise me. So many people have said it, like somebody in their family has bipolar diagnosis. At this point. I mean, I don't know. I guess I'd have to go interview 1000 People who don't have any autoimmune in their life, but it seems connected to me. You know? No,

Michael 48:49
yeah. There's, I mean, there's no way that it isn't because, I mean, my mom's got, she's got hypothyroidism and my brother's got hyperthyroidism, recently diagnosed. You know, my grandma on my, on my dad's side, too, has thyroid issues. So like, it's, you know, it's like, and like all this stuff on you know, because like, I think I've heard you say that, you know, ADHD can be, you know, inflammatory kind of in this in the same way. And I mean, it's definitely related. And then they kind of bounce back on each other because like, your blood sugar's out of whack.

Scott Benner 49:19
You know, she's around more, you're not who you are on top of everything. Yeah, I completely buy into it. I listen, I'm not a scientist. I don't know how cells work and how inflammation works. And also, I don't think I mean, I think we're on the in the infancy even in the science world of how people understand inflammation, or even like, You're, like, you know, if I would have said 20 years ago, if I would have turned to somebody in my life and said, You know, I think it's possible that the biome in your gut is impacting how you feel and how you think. I don't know that people wouldn't have locked you up for saying something that sounds too crazy. I'm still old enough that when I say it out loud I get weird douche chills. I'm like, oh my god, do I sound ridiculous right now? But I think it's just I think it's obvious. You don't mean like, I'm not saying it would fix anything but like, I'm drawn to ask you if you're taking a good probiotic. And that makes me sound like a lunatic in my own voice like, in my own head. You don't I mean, no,

Michael 50:18
but I mean, after listening to I mean, I've listened to all those episodes where he talked about the different supplements and art and supplements. And I've been, I started taking a while I was already taking magnesium, but I started taking it, I think I was taking a little bit more, because you know, you kind of have to, you kind of have to take too much to know how much to take. Yes. And so that that's been helping a lot and taking a same digestive enzyme, which I've, I think the past like month, I have not taken it, I've totally forgotten that I hadn't had it. But that did help that help with the like, even just like making sure I don't like, go sky high after a meal. If I didn't know, if I was a few minutes off on the Pre-Bolus or something. You know, it helps to now

Scott Benner 50:59
you're gonna make me really upset, like, I'm actually going to cry now. Because to know that sharing that with someone helped you or anybody is, you know, I spent? And I don't want to turn this conversation to me, but no, and I also know that people are laughing now. And they're like, of course, she just got but I don't.

Michael 51:20
I mean, it's, it's conversational. Yeah, it's a team effort.

Scott Benner 51:25
But the thing that happened today online, caused me to have to explain what it's like to be in my position. Right. And, and it's, it's a thing that I can tell you with, with great certainty that most people won't be able to understand. Like, it's like, I know, we all think of ourselves as like, you know, internet, like, everybody feels like they're a personality now and internet because everybody has, you know, an account here and there. And you might even have 1000, or a couple 1000 followers. And it feels like, wow, I say something and 1000s of people see it, but they don't really like people follow you. They're not on Instagram constantly. They're not on wherever you're at constantly. But I have a significant following. And you would think that it would impact me to say that, like, yeah, it's obvious, I talked about this, and it was going to reach you and you were going to try it and it was going to help you. But I don't have that feeling about myself. So I don't honestly think that way. Like, I know that it's there are probably some cynical people who won't believe this, but I'm just recording my thoughts. And I put them out. And they do what they do. And I don't really think about them anymore. After that. I'm not here maniacally trying to be like, Oh, I'll say this. And this, you know, and it'll make people think like, I don't have, like, I don't think like that. So that when someone comes back and says that the podcast has been helpful for them in some way, there is a small part of me that's shocked by it every time. You know, like, like, I'm just like, oh, wow, that's crazy. Really good for you like that. That's how it feels to me when you say that, Oh, I got something that helped me. And so it's just a, it's impactful to hear that something about your life got better, because something happened to my daughter, and we talked about it on here, and it made its way to you. And anyway, I think when I say that, it It must seem disingenuous to some people, like you know, how many people you're reaching? Because I do I know, I know how often the podcast has been downloaded and how frequently and what the numbers are and how it ranks and all that stuff. But, um, but it's not a thing that I it's not a top of my mind when we have conversations like this, I guess. Right? So,

Michael 53:35
I mean, it's, I mean, that's a totally like, you know, you can't expect yourself to be constantly thinking about, you know, how you're coming across to people during a conversation, because then it's like, you'll, you'll never be really in the conversation. Yeah, you're not really focused,

Scott Benner 53:50
right? You'd always just end up I'd be, I'd be the equivalent of our local news anchor, then, you know what I mean, if a big dumb look on my face, and I only say things that I know, everybody could agree with. Like, we love it when it's sunny, right, Bill? Yeah, like, great. Thanks. That's gonna help no one, but okay. Anyway, like, You shocked me, like when you started talking about like, oh, the magnesium like, Oh, my God, he does that. Wherever you hear about that? You know, so it's an oddity for me, I get this, and I get better at it all the time, like absorbing it and taking it. But there's also part of me that thinks that I shouldn't go too much farther the other way. Because I mean, what's over there, except me just like pompously believing that everybody hears what I say. And like that. I don't think that would be healthy to feel like that. So, you know, I mean, I don't feel like that, but I wouldn't want to either. Anyway. Wow. Well, you definitely help people with your story, that's for sure. That's really great. I mean, you're incredibly open. And it was people can't see you. But it's been difficult. We've only been talking for an hour. It's been difficult for you at times, like genuinely difficult to say things that you've said and and that's that's very nice of you to do. Actually, I have a question going all the way back to like 20 minutes ago, maybe 20 minutes in. You said like, I don't care how their weekend is, could that be the Wellbutrin keeping you from caring how their weekend is? Or did you not care before the Wellbutrin? I?

Michael 55:17
That's a good question. I don't know. Maybe. But I'm not taking. I mean, I think I'm taking like 300 milligrams does. But that's a good good. I don't, it's hard for me to take notice of some of these things. Sure. I'm like, I don't I don't remember why. Right. I don't know what it's, I don't know what it's like to, like, you know, like, it's hard for me to have breakfast, sometimes the morning before you go to work. But then in the morning, I do have breakfast. I won't really notice if I feel better. You know, like, like, stuff like that. It's like hard for me to like, I can't pay attention to myself enough. It made me

Scott Benner 55:54
wonder like is the medication helping you with one thing, but hurting you in another way? And because that description, like you won't know this until you hear it back? Maybe not even then. But that that push and pull of like, I do care about their weekend, but I can't make myself care about their weekend as like a torture statement. You know, and it's it's tough to know, like, but but I also don't know what you're being helped, like, what what has been alleviated for you that is incredibly important to be alleviated? I don't know that either. So,

Michael 56:27
I mean, even I don't even know what's been illegal, like, I'd have to stop taking it to be like, Oh, this is what it was helping me with. Like

Scott Benner 56:36
the enzyme I don't really know. Yeah, you start taking it and it helps and everything gets better. They actually say that, like cycle like, second, what's the word I want just, let's just say depression medicine, like, the biggest problem that they have with it is for people to become non compliant taking it because they have a problem. And then for the ones that start taking it that are helped by it, their life normalizes and then they start thinking, I don't need this medicine, I'm fine, when the medication might be the only reason they're fine. And you know, and so yeah, you get put into a slightly different reality than you would be. And without it, you don't even know where the other reality is, let alone to have ability to I guess, adequately discuss it, and then evaluate it, right? It's a weird position to be in. Do you ever think of just stopping it? Or do you remember what it was like before that and that doesn't seem like a good idea.

Michael 57:33
I've thought about it, because I'm like, I want to see like, you know, maybe just from having maybe a slightly better routine of, you know, eating regularly eating healthier, doing more exercise, like maybe, if I or if I just go down on it, you know, cut it in half to see if it would make any differences, but I kind of don't want to mess with it quite yet. Because, you know, what if it is, it's like, I've forgotten to take him out one night, and I feel terrible. The next day, he was just like, it's the withdrawal. Right? Right, right. Yeah, talking there. But like,

Scott Benner 58:08
there's a way to titrate off of it. If you're going to come off of it, it's actually takes some time to grow. We prior to that, did you ever have like thoughts about hurting yourself or anything like that?

Michael 58:20
Not nothing serious is always fleeting, like kind of like, you know, but it was it's always in, you know, like, I have a lot of guilt about a lot of things that are like on an unreasonable guilt. So that kind of can play a part

Scott Benner 58:40
be overwhelming without it. Yeah. I was going to ask you did anything like tragic or traumatic happened to you when you were younger?

Michael 58:51
I don't think so. I mean, other than the diagnosis, which really, I mean, I remember like, crying when they had to prick my finger over the roof, because it hurt, you know, but like, and like having to deal with all the shots and all that stuff. Yeah,

Scott Benner 59:05
I'm talking more like a neighbor's never take me in the basement to show you this train set or something like that.

Michael 59:11
No, no, not nothing like that. I mean, I've had I mean, I got a pretty gnarly concussion a couple years ago. But I mean, like, that's not but nothing like yeah, no, like, no, like physical or like, mental abuse,

Scott Benner 59:23
actual mental, like physical stuff like that. And you had a bad concussion. But you've had these problems prior to that. Yeah. Okay. Not to say that it has to be one way or the other. But the stories that I hear from people over and over again, it's either wiring or something really bad happened. You know what I mean? Like and, and that's, that's it. You see somebody do you talk to a therapist?

Michael 59:46
I do. I see someone almost every week. Good. Does it help? Yeah, I think it does help even if it's just like, you know, having feelings. Yeah, that is You know, Microcenter isn't, you know, family or, or, you know, friends and someone who can like really kind of understand what's, what's going on. But

Scott Benner 1:00:12
it helps in that it relieves the pressure, but it's not. It's not lessening the strain. Overall, is just keeping it from exploding. Yeah,

Michael 1:00:21
I think yeah, I think it's just yeah, being able to get it out and to like, talk about it in a way that, like, just how I am talking here. It's like, I don't really, you know, it's like, in a way I know you but not not really interested. Yeah, you know. And so it's like, A, it's really easy for me to talk to somebody I don't know, which is kind of weird. Because it's like, if I like talking to people at work, it's like, I don't want to let them know who I really am all the way. Yeah, no, I

Scott Benner 1:00:47
I agree with because it's like, I

Michael 1:00:49
see them every day.

Scott Benner 1:00:50
Yeah. And you have to keep the job too. And you don't want them to walk away and go, we should get rid of Michael. Yeah, he's worrying me. And, yeah, it's a weird place to try to make a really sincere personal connection, because there's always the job. Is that the core of why you even know each other, you know, and I don't know what you do. But if you're in a competitive environment, there are certain terrible people that will use that against you to try to just jump up the ladder. You know what I mean? So

Michael 1:01:19
yeah, well, thankfully, I work at a very, very relaxed, and somewhat I don't want to say easy, but it's a it's a, it's a pretty easy job. And I really like it. It's, it's hands on. So I'm a hands on person. So but they're

Scott Benner 1:01:35
not currently, it's not a place where people are clawing at each other to make 10 more dollars or something like that. It's

Michael 1:01:40
no, there's only like seven or eight people that work there. So good. Okay, well, that's good. It

Scott Benner 1:01:45
sounds like a good fit for you. Did you end up making it through college with a degree? I

Michael 1:01:49
got my BFA in furniture design from SCAD. Oh, really? Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:01:55
Where are you? I think I'm not supposed to say my daughter goes there. So yeah, no. Are you in Atlanta? Were you in the Atlanta campus? Or Savannah?

Michael 1:02:05
Savannah?

Scott Benner 1:02:07
Oh, no kidding. Did you stay local, or if you left, we

Michael 1:02:09
left to go to Milwaukee. After we graduated, we graduated 2020. So the West Center graduate, and then we moved back. We're in the we're back in the southeast, okay, after like, almost three years in the Midwest, just because we like the weather down here. And it's more familiar to us. And we're close enough to Savannah, because we love living there. It was, it was amazing to live there already

Scott Benner 1:02:36
and can't wait to leave. Really, she's like, it's too hot. And everyone moves too slowly. That was the other thing. She says she's like,

Michael 1:02:45
Yeah, no, the slowness can get to you. I mean, but after four years, I mean, you kind of learn to settle. And to like, enjoy it to be like, you don't need to move fast. You're you're gonna get way too sweaty to move fast.

Scott Benner 1:02:57
I think I think those two things actually do impact each other. Yeah, it's a lovely area. I've visited obviously, a number of times, and I've always had a good time. I again, I've never lived there for more than a week. But yeah, it's always been a really pleasurable experience, actually. Yeah. So So do you design furniture for a living?

Michael 1:03:14
Not for a living? I mean, obviously, ideally, that's what I wanted to do. When I graduated. I wanted to do more, you know, hands on furniture making and, you know, maybe some some, I mean, obviously, I love to design and make my own stuff. Which I, which I still do for just for making stuff for our house or making stuff for friends. I'll do but I'm never really got a job to do that. Because it's a pretty small. It's a pretty small industry. Yeah. And like, I don't want to be sitting behind a computer doing CAD work, you know, all day, because I don't, I just sounds like the worst.

Scott Benner 1:03:48
How do you apply what you learned that in the world, making stuff for myself,

Michael 1:03:53
I love just making, like, I've always loved making things that somebody or myself could use in their everyday life. I think that's just something like really fulfilling for me. And so the job I have now is, does that and it just in a different way. Okay. And so, I mean, I use my like, whatever I learned for like, design wise, almost every day, but furniture wise, I just, I'm always thinking about stuff I want to make, but I haven't had a job and like the furniture or like woodworking industry like properly. I was a finished carpenter for a few months. And I did a furniture maker apprenticeship with a guy in Milwaukee for a few months.

Scott Benner 1:04:35
Did you enjoy it? Yeah. Oh, yeah. I

Michael 1:04:38
really liked the the apprenticeship. The finished carpentry was difficult. I mean, it was during the winter in Wisconsin, so it was really cold. I mean, it started at like seven in the morning. And I did drive 30 minutes to get this freezing outside.

Scott Benner 1:04:52
Doesn't seem that bad, but it does when it's minus one degree. Yeah, yeah. And

Michael 1:04:57
those roads are frozen. So we're working in isn't finished so it's not heated and my girlfriend's from Texas and so she anything below 50 is, you know, the coldest ever. And so like living there for you know, three years was that was bad.

Scott Benner 1:05:13
She must have hated that. And you go where your girlfriend wants to go. So you're stuck. Yeah. Well,

Michael 1:05:17
no, because she she had a job. She had a she had a job route to college. So we figure why not, you know, and it's, you know, there. You know, it wasn't the worst. I mean, we did really love living there for half a year.

Scott Benner 1:05:30
Did you guys meet at school? Yeah, yeah, we

Michael 1:05:32
met at SCAD. Sophomore year.

Scott Benner 1:05:36
Nice. Oh, that's, that's lovely actually Arden's a sophomore right now. Yeah, she's working. It feels like 50 hours a day, at the stuff that it's fascinating how much work there is? Yeah,

Michael 1:05:49
it's. And it's funny, because I mean, obviously there. I mean, every school is different. But people will come into an art school like that and be like, Oh, it's going to be easy. But it's like when you have two and a half hours to do classes. And like I had a couple of five and a half hour classes. And like it's not. And it's like you're working constantly. And it's like, it's not, it's definitely not easy. And it's not especially the first year and doing all the Gen Ed's and the drawing and those things. And one 3d design and all that stuff is yeah, it's it's not easy.

Scott Benner 1:06:25
She's in life drawing right now. And last week, the instructor teacher that whatever you would call them, I didn't go to college. So no fancy words, I guess, Professor, they said, Hey, this weekend, you have to draw this. And you should spend at least six hours in the lab doing it. And art was like, I have so much to do. Like, I don't know how to, like accomplish that. But she did it. And then she went back to class and she said, Everyone who didn't spend the time, you could tell in their work that they didn't put the time in, you know, she's like, so the time is, it's the effort, but the effort takes a lot of time and if you don't spend it then you don't get it back. She said the the teacher pictures upset. It was really good show to the people. So this is like, what we were looking for that kind of thing, but aren't like that, like, that was great. But it took a whole day. You know, like, like, Hey, get up. I gotta eat. I'm gonna take a shower. I gotta go over there. Now I'm there for six hours I get home. It's dark, you know? Like, it's, she's like, it's a lot. And she goes, I don't think people just like you said, I don't think people would believe how busy I am here.

Michael 1:07:28
Yeah, yeah, it's it's constant. And that's why I'll have to go in there open 24/7 so that you can stay drawing until three in the morning. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:07:35
I don't walk the buildings. You can just yeah, you can go in and work whenever you want to because you have to. Well, I think most people would hear that and go, oh, there's no science and there's no math and there's no this and you're not really at college, but it's a little work for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Like what did your girlfriend do while she was there, which was her degree with?

Michael 1:07:54
She got her degree in fibers. So like, I tried

Scott Benner 1:07:58
so hard to push Arden towards the Yeah,

Michael 1:08:01
yes. It is one of the coolest majors I think there is. I mean, she learned so much. And she is a hands on person just like me. And so like learning how to weave and like, she knows how to spin her own yarn. And then the job that she got was like surface design. So it's like designing print and pattern for clothes and graphic. And, you know, like the the flowery prints on a dress, you know, stuff like that. Yeah. But it was it was a corporate job. So she hated it. She left. I

Scott Benner 1:08:32
think that's what Artemis said. She's like, I'm not gonna want to do that. I even just I'm like, just take a minor in it. And I was like, seriously, it looks so interesting. And she's like, Yeah, I don't know. And I'm like, but we anyway, we were really like my wife. and I were like, This is good. I would look at this. And she's like, not what I want. Okay.

Michael 1:08:47
Yeah, no, I mean, you should I mean, if she could take even just a class at Pepe, it's, it's an awesome that buildings awesome. And the minor is, I had a friend and furniture who took the minor. And he said it was it was a lot of fun, because it's just like, it would go hand in hand with with fashion.

Scott Benner 1:09:07
I know. That's what we really did push her towards that she just took a business track as a minor instead. Because I think she really feels like she's gonna, like run a small business. It's something

Michael 1:09:16
I want to do do her own thing. Yeah, that's definitely and you can't really go wrong with that.

Scott Benner 1:09:20
Right? So we'll see. But anyway, Arden doesn't go there. She goes someplace. And where am I supposed to say Chicago? Chicago? Yeah, all of you are wrong. And please don't look for her internet. I get a note the other day from a woman who said, I'm not a stalker. Any note you get online that begins I'm not a stalker. You're like, Oh, I'm gonna die. But anyway, this one, she goes, I'm not a stalker, but she was I was in Forsyth Park the other day. And I saw a girl with an omni pod or with a Dexcom on her arm. And she had like your daughter's color hair and I stopped myself from going up to her. And I responded back and I said, Listen, you're lucky you didn't do that. because that wasn't her, because Arden doesn't wear Dexcom on her arm. Oh, I said, so you would have been rushed? A person who did not know at all, what the hell you were talking about? Like so. So anyway, so for all of you in Savannah, don't just assume you see her. You might be seeing other people have diabetes to get out. Yeah,

Michael 1:10:20
I mean, I will do that. There was we went to this art art show gallery thing a couple of weeks ago, and there were two people there who were I could see their pumps. So I forced myself to be like, a diabetic. And like, ask them questions and be like, oh, like, I would love to get your number, right. So that we can, like, have some sort of, you know, community, which I think is really important, you know, something like, the podcast, or just like, you know, being able to have somebody to, you know, even if it's like, I had someone at SCAD, who we had the same, you know, on the pod Dexcom. So, like, I would often run out before my insurance would get me more. And so she would trade me one, and I give her one when I got mine in the mail next week. Of course. Yeah, stuff like that is just like, it's a, you know, it's a priceless resource. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:11:09
diabetes. Give a penny take a penny. Yeah. Oh, we're gonna call your episode. Give a penny take a penny. What a great idea. All right. See? You mind that? That sounds good. All right, is that I mean, that's what you're doing. Right. You're adding your story and taking other people's stories out and putting that in there. And it's perfect. Look at me being creative. Alright. Anything we missed anything? Michael, anything we should have talked about that we didn't?

Michael 1:11:36
I don't think so. Unless there's anything you wanted to ask me more?

Scott Benner 1:11:41
I mean, you feel good about what you got out, though. I want to make sure about that. Yeah, I

Michael 1:11:45
think so. I'm trying to think if there's anything else I wanted to talk about. But I mean, I think just I think I'm just so hard on myself with like the daily, the daily stuff of like, I've had this for 18 years, I still haven't nailed this down. Like what's like, what's wrong with me? You know, that kind of feeling? I guess we kind of touched on that. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:12:03
dude, you have a sixth one. And really, the last thing for you to do is Pre-Bolus. Yeah, just stop, you're bouncing off the chase. So like, is there? Like, I know you said earlier, like when you and your girlfriend are trying to even make like a schedule for what you're going to eat this week that it's difficult for you to do. I wonder if instead of trying to say to yourself, let's sit down and make a menu for this week? Could you not just say, let's sit down and write down all the food we like. And just write it all down? And then just take what you've written down and slide it into segments and do your grocery shopping? You don't I mean? Like, maybe it's the pressure of what are we going to make for like, you know what I'm saying? Like, like, what if you just made it more fun. I know, that seems simplistic, but it's what popped into my head when you were saying it earlier? Just like let's just, let's just write down everything we like to eat, and then we'll make it or why don't we just decide that we're gonna go grocery shopping twice a week, and, and just choose the next three days, like, we'll take our master list of food we love. And we'll look at it and choose three things and go grocery shopping for them. And then go again, why not make your thing fit into life? Instead of trying to make a life fit into your thing? I guess is my thought and then, you know, from there? I don't know man, the Pre-Bolus things tougher everybody. But yeah, do you eat at the same time every day? Or a similar time?

Michael 1:13:31
Similar, I try to eat lunch at the same time lunch I can usually remember to because I'm like, cuz I'm looking forward to taking lunch when I'm at work. So I'm like, Okay, I guess that means I can I can eat lunch soon, you know, all you know. So I'll plan it more ahead. And it's I don't eat a huge lunch. So it's like, easy for me to Pre-Bolus Is this not

Scott Benner 1:13:49
as easy as setting an alarm on your phone that says Bolus at certain times a day? And even if it's not exactly right, at least maybe it's in your head, then I

Michael 1:13:57
will do that for lunch. I'll like be like, I want to eat. I want to eat soon. I'm going to people's now I'll set a timer for 10 minutes. So because sometimes I'll Pre-Bolus I will forget to eat. Sure. Yeah. And then and then I'm dropping and then I'm like, I can't eat fast enough for it to catch and then I have to eat more. Like you know, drink a juice and then a pie and then it's like that. That happens way too often for me and I don't I mean, even if it's or if it's you know the other way

Scott Benner 1:14:21
around. Yeah. But you struggle most with timing your meal insulin. That really is your biggest struggle. Am I wrong? Yeah, yeah. Also, related, unrelated. If you could get your TSH down a little bit, maybe you maybe use insulin a little better. Actually, if you drank water a little more, maybe you'd use your insulin a little better. Like maybe these little like fixes along the way would all kind of commingle and make a big guy you know and pick improvement for you

Michael 1:14:50
know, I mean, so far even just in the past year that I've had because I've had the Omnipod fi for almost a year now. Pretty much got it as soon as I could. I had issues with insurance but What's new, but yeah, that it helped a lot. I was so excited. I was looking forward to this for years, once they had like the ones there's like the little teaser for it for automation.

Scott Benner 1:15:10
I remember when they used to call it, whatever they're gonna call it first. Like Verizon, they were gonna call it an omni pod horizon, and they changed the name to Omni pod five. That's right, even though there was not an Omnipod 123 and four. Yeah. I've never asked anybody about that. Maybe I will one deck. Yeah, it's like the Dexcom numbering, like, somehow started at seven then went to four, like, and then seven plus then four, then five. And then I was like, You guys are overthinking this. Start at one. Yeah, but excellence to keep going. But I think I think when even it shows you, even with a company like they don't when they're doing it, they don't know the future. Like they probably didn't realize when they were making Dexcom that ended up being iteration after iteration after iteration of it. You know what I mean? So the first person calls it something and then you wake up three years later, you're like, Oh, our naming system doesn't work, right? What's it you know, just what happens? Honestly, I have that problem. Sometimes with my episodes, I'm like, Oh, I shouldn't call it that. Now. I'm stuck. And they got to work around it. It's a pain in the butt. How'd you find the podcast?

Michael 1:16:20
My dad was out walking his dog. And one of their neighbors has type one. And she had mentioned it to him. And that was like, that must have been sophomore freshman year of college. Okay. And so that's how I heard about it. And then I didn't listen to it for a while until I remembered it. So I wasn't really listening to podcasts yet. Like, I was just like, I'm not ready to lay I don't have time to listen to podcasts. Like, I can't we listen to him in class. And I was more like, couldn't do them yet. But now I'm like, podcasts 90% of the time. And so that, so I found it through my dad.

Scott Benner 1:16:59
Okay. And it helped you like management wise, the podcast is, has helped you make better decisions. Yeah,

Michael 1:17:05
I mean, I didn't know about I mean, my doctors haven't told me anything. Basically, about, I didn't know about protein rise. And like I didn't know, like, I didn't even know about Pre-Bolus thing until a few years ago. Like, I mean, I knew that, like, that's kind of what you should be doing. But that's not like, we didn't do that at diabetes camp. You know, we didn't you know, the doctor didn't tell. Tell us about that. You know, I did the extent of my diabetes education was you can read a nutrition label, you're good. Okay. And that was like, and that and I was seven years old. And so then no more after that.

Scott Benner 1:17:37
So like, Well, is it maybe it's fair to say that maybe you don't forget to Bolus as much as you've been trained not to? Like maybe this is a habit you're trying to break? You know what I mean? Yeah,

Michael 1:17:48
yeah, I have a lot of, I don't think I've had a good habit. Like, I don't have a consistent habit of anything, I think, which is, like, weird to think about, but I think about it a lot. Like, I haven't done anything good consistently for more than three days in a row. Pick

Scott Benner 1:18:04
one. Just pick one. Yeah. Drink, drink water thing. Or, like you don't I mean, like, pick one thing, and then prove to yourself that you can break a habit. And you know what I mean? And then just keep trying to apply it to other things. It's gonna be a long process. But But here's, here's what I here's what I'm pretty certain of, if you were my kid, and I am old enough to have, yeah, oh, my God has word. But But I would say this, there's trying, and there is accepting it. So if you just accept that, if you accept it, and like, I'm never going to get this, right, it's not going to make anything better, because you're still going to torture yourself about it, you're gonna feel disappointed. I hear your voice when you're talking about how you treat people or like, even how you feel like you're never you're just going to burden yourself in a different way. Right? So you have to there's no choice, in my opinion, you got to keep working at it. And then working out, it can't just mean knowing that you're not doing a thing. It has to mean actual, like functional, functioning, functional, excuse me, like steps. So you have to create steps that are small enough that they're going to make an improvement. But tell yourself it's okay if it doesn't happen today, or this week, or this month, has to be like a big improvement. And, you know, I can tell you like I gave myself over to that idea when I started like we go V because the doctor will say to you Oh you know, where do you see like once it's in your system, like you're gonna lose like a pound a week. And I know when the doctor says that they're like, that's amazing. A pound a week's amazing but back then when someone says it to us, you're like, Why? Why, like a pound like I got, I got more weight to lose and all that like, like, how's that gonna help anything? But that's how it happens. You lose a pound a week. So you just accept that that's the situation and you call that you don't just call it progress. As you celebrated the weekends and you're a pound lighter, and you're like, I can't believe this, you don't look in the mirror and go, I have to lose 50 pounds to this is not very exciting. The you don't eat meat, you say this is amazing. I was supposed to lose a pound this week I did. This is a major celebration. I think that's how you treat like when you pick your waterglass up you go look at me doing it. And you act like you've done. I mean, fake it till you make it. And that's what they teach in AAA. So seriously, I don't know if you like it or not, it doesn't matter if that's a staple of that of that recovery idea. It is really what you're trying to do is you're trying to recover from a habit into another one. So just yeah, you know, man, I say it a lot of different ways, but just set the bar so damn low that even if you trip, you'll end up on the other side of it.

Michael 1:20:43
Ya know, I tried to do the I tried to set my expectations really low. Because it's like, that's, I mean, it's like, you got to start somewhere, you know? It's like, Yeah, I mean, you got to, you know, if you can do one thing. And then it's like, if you like, even if I don't expect to do it, and then I do it. It's like, Oh, great. It's like, you know, those couple days a week where like, my, my, my blood sugar doesn't go above 150, which is like very rare. But it's like, it feels amazing. It's such a great feeling.

Scott Benner 1:21:12
Please think it's interesting when people say that, they have to drink more water, it's a great example. And then there, they end up with a flat a Hydro Flask in their hand that's holding like it feels like it's a half a gallon of liquid. And they're like, hey, you know, it's got lines on it and drink this by eight o'clock this dynamic. You were a person yesterday who drank six ounces of water all day. And now you want to drink? I don't know, however much isn't that thing. That seems to be an unreasonable leap to me. Like, why don't you just start with 12 ounces. And then tomorrow try for more into like, because you'll build up a muscle to it. Like I take that AG one in the morning, it was actually hard to learn how to do. And it wasn't after not actually tastes fine. And like all that's fine. It's just it's that it wasn't a thing I used to do. And then I wanted to make it a thing I did it taking vitamins is the same way like people like oh, I forget them all the time. I get it, like I that happened to me, I had vitamins I want to take, I would forget to take them all the time. So I went out like an old person and bought a vitamin caddy, and I load them up. And I it's right in the middle of the island, like right in the middle of my kitchen. My wife did not like them there. So she moves it, then I go take it and move it back. Because not because I'm messing with her Michael, although that is a lovely byproduct of the of it. Because I do enjoy. I do enjoy screwing with her. But not because of that. But because I just said to him, like if it's not right here, I won't remember. And that needs to be important to you. Because it's important to me, and I need them to be right here. So there's this big, ugly plastic thing on my countertop, and I cannot avoid it. I literally put it I did the like physical equivalent of taping it to my forehead, or writing Pre-Bolus on my palm or something like that. You know what I mean? So, and then it became a habit. And now I can't, I can't forget, like it's impossible. Every day. I'm like, Oh, I take these vitamins. Every day I eat something that I know my body will struggle with. I take those enzymes with it, because I leave them out in front of me. Like I don't give myself the opportunity to forget it. So I don't know you're not the same person. But I hope something in there is valuable for you. Oh, yeah.

Michael 1:23:23
I mean, I did the same thing with my, with my pills. I got like a I got like a, like a very nice looking wooden pillowcase. So that if it's on my nightstand, it looks good. And I'd be like, Oh, it's right there. Let me just take it. I can preload it, you know, for the week. And it has it has a morning, morning side and a night side. So I can keep it all right there.

Scott Benner 1:23:42
I thought for sure you were gonna say that you made it. Like when you said, No, I

Michael 1:23:45
wish I wish it looks it does look really nice. I mean, I probably could, but it would be this person did it so well. So it's like I'd rather somebody else by law. I

Scott Benner 1:23:56
really appreciate this. We're getting along now. So I'm going to say goodbye. But yeah, I want to hang on from it and talk to you when we hang up. And then. Yeah, and I appreciate your time very much. Thank

Michael 1:24:04
you. Of course. Yeah. Thank you.

Scott Benner 1:24:06
That was a real pleasure. Hold on one second.

Here huge thanks to Dexcom for being longtime sponsors of the Juicebox Podcast dexcom.com/juice box head over there now get started today. If you'd like to wear the same insulin pump that Arden does, all you have to do is go to Omni pod.com/juice box. That's it. Head over now and get started today and you'll be wearing the same tubeless insulin pump that Arden has been wearing since she was four years old. I want to thank the ever since CGM for sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast. Learn more about its implantable sensor, smart transmitter and terrific mobile application at ever since cgm.com/juicebox. Get the only implantable sensor for long term wear get ever Ever since. If you're living with type one diabetes, the afterdark collection from the Juicebox Podcast is the only place to hear the stories that no one else talks about. From drugs to depression, self harm, trauma, addiction, and so much more. Go to juicebox podcast.com up in the menu and click on after dark. There you'll see a full list of all of the after dark episodes. I know that Facebook has a bad reputation, but please give the private Facebook group for the Juicebox Podcast. A healthy once over Juicebox Podcast, type one diabetes. The group now has 47,000 members in it, it gets 150 new members a day. It is completely free. And at the very least you can watch other people talk about diabetes, and everybody is welcome type one type two gestational loved ones, everyone is welcome. Go up into the feature tab of the private Facebook group. And there you'll see lists upon lists of all of the management series that are available to you for free in the Juicebox Podcast, becoming a member of that group. I really think it will help you it will at least give you community you'll be able to kind of lurk around see what people are talking about. Pick up some tips and tricks. Maybe you can ask a question or offer some help Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes on Facebook. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast. The episode you just heard was professionally edited by wrong way recording. Wrong way recording.com

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