#1152 It Was Always Yellow

March 14, 2024Scott Benner

Craig has had T1D for 50 years.

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Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 1152 of the Juicebox Podcast.

They will be speaking with Craig who has had type one diabetes for 50 years, Craig and I are going to go through how technology has changed through his lifetime. And that story ends with him building his own Iaps system. I'm talking about 61 year old Craig building his own Do It Yourself algorithm. Nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan.

Don't forget to save 40% off of your entire order at cozy earth.com. All you have to do is use the offer code juice box at checkout. That's juice box at checkout to save 40% at cozy earth.com. And if you're a US resident who has type one diabetes, or is the caregiver of someone with type one, please go to T one D exchange.org/juicebox. and complete the short survey. You'll be helping type one diabetes research right there from your phone from your sofa or wherever you are. T one D exchange.org/juicebox. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the ever since CGM. Ever since it's gonna let you break away from some of the CGM norms you may be accustomed to no more weekly or bi weekly hassles of sensor changes. Never again will you be able to accidentally bump your sensor off. You won't have to carry around CGM supplies and worrying about your adhesive lasting. Well that's the thing of the past ever since cgm.com/juicebox. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by ag one drink ag one.com/juice box. head there now to learn more about ag one. It's vegan friendly, gluten free, dairy free, non GMO, no sugar added no artificial sweeteners. And when you make your first order with my link, you're going to get a G one and a welcome kit that includes a shaker scoop and canister. You're also going to get five free travel packs and a year supply of vitamin D with that first order at drink a G one.com/juice box. This show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries G voc hypo Penn Find out more at G voc glucagon.com. Forward slash juicebox. My

Craig 2:48
name is Craig, I've been a tier one diabetic for over 50 years. And I'm here to basically go over what I learned recently pertaining to, you know, the the new treatments that are available for type one diabetics that before this May I never knew about, oh,

Scott Benner 3:15
this is going to be interesting. I'm going to enjoy this. Okay. Craig, if you've had diabetes for 50 years, how old are you? I am 61. Very nice. So you're 11 years old when you were diagnosed? 50 years ago 19. So

Craig 3:29
long ago, I can't remember exactly right. But I was about 11 years old to the best of my rescue recollection, I have a younger brother, who is also a T one D. And he was diagnosed several years before me in the early 70s and the early 70s. Okay, wow.

Scott Benner 3:52
Well, alright, so this the reason I'll find this interesting, and I think everybody else will, too, is because you've come up with one idea of management. And it's shifted probably four times significantly since then. But do you keep up with it? So Alright, so first, let's go back and say, Do you remember anything about your diagnosis? Yeah, I

Craig 4:18
remember it very clearly. At the time, you know, obviously, we had some experience with type one diabetes in the family because of my brother. I really didn't have any kind of insight into what what that was like, other than he had diabetes. I didn't know anything more about what this specials, you know, special conditions were surrounding it.

Scott Benner 4:44
You just basically grew up in a house where your brother has diabetes. He gets a shot twice a day, right?

Craig 4:50
Oh, back then it was I believe once a day in the morning, from what I can remember that's that's what I remember myself starting on once a day in the morning, it was it was a pretty slim treatment. Yeah. You know, I mean, I really, I don't know, there wasn't that much known. This is the way you did it. And, you know, so that's what we accepted. I didn't know. But anyway, getting back to how I discovered I had diabetes. Out of the blue, I started to get real thirsty. And I wondered to myself, that's fine. Me. And I had, I had said to my mom, who by this time was taking care of my brother for a couple of years. I said, Hey, Mom, I'm really thirsty. And I'm urinating a lot. And she said, Oh, well take one of your brother's test strips. Because back then we had the test strips that you had to use, you know, you take it out of the little vial and up on the little test strip, and then you look at the color. And I remember revealing the color as I peed on it, you know, in front of my own eyes. And it went, like, all the way up to the worst color. I forget what it was the worst colors or yellow? Yeah, pretty green was the best color and it wasn't green. So she said, really? You sure? I said, Yeah. And we left for the hospital. So it was a pretty easy diagnosis. And, you know, that's how it all that's how it all started. And you know, at that point, it really didn't even understand the impact. Sure, even when I was in the hospital, I didn't understand the impact. And you know, the education that you were given in the hospital was more like, how to take an insulin shot yourself, and not much about how to manage it. I guess they must discuss that at the time with my mom to come up with the dosage. And I'm sure she already had an idea from from doing it with my brother. So that's how it all started. Yeah,

Scott Benner 6:53
you have any other brothers and sisters?

Craig 6:57
I have two other brothers. And the interesting fact about that is my brother and myself both have brownish hair. My other two brothers that never develop diabetes have blonde hair.

Scott Benner 7:12
Well, now we know how to avoid it. Yeah, so that's just that's

Craig 7:15
just like a defining, I guess, tree between our chemistry like I must be more chemically like with my brother that has type one diabetes, and the other two are more chemically alike in a different way.

Scott Benner 7:29
I wonder if that's in any way possible? That's interesting. For sure. So you guys see that? That's the fact. Yeah. Well, not that you're not that your hair color is not the same. I just wonder if that actually has anything to do with anything? That'd be amazing. Growing up, do you guys kind of pair up a little bit because of this or does it not bond you like that?

Craig 7:51
I would say somewhat however, you know, we were kids. We grew up in a city you know, we lived on a city blocks. Obviously he was a different age group and we had different you know, different grades of school, different friends, all that kind of stuff. So I think we both kind of just tried to cope in our own way. separately. I don't think we ever got together and compared notes. I

Scott Benner 8:19
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Craig 11:06
you were staying alive Scott.

Scott Benner 11:08
Right, right. We did you ever get low? You have low blood sugars as a kid? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That happened

Craig 11:16
multiple times a day. I'm a kid, you're out running around like a low blood sugar. Sure. I mean, you had to constantly eat to feed the monster so to speak. You know what I mean? It was just, it was a never ending roller coaster. And I'm sure when I wasn't low, I was probably 300. But, you know, we didn't even have any good way to monitor it. So it was it was like the wild west of diabetes. But yeah, you know, looking back people before me, obviously didn't even have a

Scott Benner 11:44
chance. No, no, no, that was that you're you really kind of come into it in one of those very first treatments that allows you to get 50 years with it. Yeah.

Craig 11:54
And I can remember the the insulin that we use was pork or beef.

Scott Benner 11:58
Yeah. Right. So it was

Craig 12:02
there wasn't that much science behind it all, you know? No, no, I

Scott Benner 12:05
take your point. I really do. What's the first shift you remember in management?

Craig 12:11
Oh, that's a long time. You know, I shifted from the one shot a day eventually to multiple shots a day, which still included the one in the morning, but then, you know, I trying to give an extra boost during mealtimes? I'm gonna say that wasn't that successful? Oh, really? I don't think I don't know, the control wasn't much better. How did you measure that? And not only that, but now I had like syringes all over the place. You know what I mean? either used or unused? Or you know what I mean? Really just overwhelmed with a mess with

Scott Benner 12:46
with it with the and then your brother's got it too? How often do you see a doctor? And how are they measuring your success?

Craig 12:53
Back then? Yeah. Yeah. You know, I don't remember how often I'm gonna say it wasn't that often. Okay. And I guess success was being alive once a year, twice a year. You know, I don't remember all that. Exactly. So, so anyway, you know, as time went on, and I got into my, I'm gonna say, mid 20s. I had moved from the city in that I was living in to South Jersey, where I live now actually Central Jersey on the coast. And at that time, obviously, I had to switch doctors. So I left the juvenile Doctor treatment that I had in the city and went to a normal endocrinologist and the gentleman happened to be extremely good. He was very big on the latest diabetes innovations. Okay. He was like, part researcher, part endocrinologist. So he was he was, he was really good. However, still, you gotta remember that at that time. You know, even though he was up on the latest technology, it wasn't really that advanced. Yeah. However, the insulin pump had come along, and he had been kind of trying to persuade me to try the insulin pump. For I'm gonna say at least two years, and for some reason, I resisted. Looking back on it, it's so silly. You know, I didn't know if it was something they cut you open and plant it in. Yeah, I didn't know anything about what an insulin pump was. No kidding. Now, so,

Scott Benner 14:42
Greg, do you want to do something for me before you go on? I think your microphones working from your laptop. So can you sit forward? I like you better forward.

Craig 14:51
How's that any better? Yeah, it's

Scott Benner 14:53
definitely different. Yeah, if you can, okay, if it's not uncomfortable, if you could stay there, that'd be terrific. No, that's fine. Okay, so it takes him So he's saying insulin pump to you, but you're not even getting enough information to know that it's not a thing that they cut your skin open for,

Craig 15:07
I guess you have these preconceived fears, you know about a change. You know, I want to I want you to understand Scott along this whole route. I didn't think my control was that bad. I thought this is the best you could do. I mean, I didn't have any other knowledge to say, hey, there might be something better that I'm not even considering.

Scott Benner 15:28
Your health is good for these 15 years that we're talking about here. 11 years old, mid 20s.

Craig 15:35
Yeah, I'm gonna save control wasn't that great. But health was very good. Yes.

Scott Benner 15:40
All right. And if you are bouncing high to low your body's kind of accustomed to it. Do you stop feeling lows after a while? Not at that time now. You

Craig 15:49
still felt I didn't? I didn't start feeling lows until my late 40s. Oh, you

Scott Benner 15:54
didn't feel lows at all? You knew would? How did you know you were low? Dizzy. No, I

Craig 15:59
knew lows back then I'm saying I didn't stop feeling until the late my late 40s. Prior to that, I felt lows constantly. Okay.

Scott Benner 16:08
So you felt them? So you were bouncing? You were high and you were low? Did you feel unwell when you were hired?

Craig 16:13
You feel kind of bloated and sluggish when you're high, but you push through it? Same thing when you're low? You push through it?

Scott Benner 16:21
I hate to say that? Well, that was the bit that was that was all you had really. That's all I knew

Craig 16:28
I you know, there, there probably was better treatment, education and better treatment tools. But if you don't realize that what you're doing is not the best it can be. You don't ever change. And that is a problem. Yeah, no,

Scott Benner 16:45
it definitely is.

Craig 16:46
That's one of the points that I wanted to kind of make with this whole this whole interview was that, you know, change is something as a diabetic, you have got to adapt constantly. I agree. Yeah. Have you ever heard before right now is not good enough compared to what you're going to do tomorrow? Right?

Scott Benner 17:05
Yep. And stuff they come up with, like, I always say, I keep it kind of simple. What I say is, I wouldn't jump from technology just because a new thing pops up. But you can't get so comfortable that you find yourself 510 years later, and everyone's using an algorithm or something and keeping the right one seeing the sixes without even trying and you're back there going, this is fine, you know, with your eight a one se or whatever is going on, because it does get better. And if you don't keep up with it. I mean, it's gonna catch up to you, I think.

Craig 17:37
I think there's a certain denial. At least in my self, there was a certain denial that it couldn't be better. I thought that, hey, I got diabetes. And this is it. This is what it is. This is what it feels like every day, this is what you do. This is what every diabetic deals with every day, you know,

Scott Benner 17:58
is there any? I mean, you're you're an old enough man to have thought about this stuff. So if you consider that there's better does that make you feel like Oh, I haven't been doing as well for myself as I could have like, does it make you feel badly to consider that there's more? It makes sense. Not really.

Craig 18:17
I'm thankful that there's more. You know, anyway, let me get back to the story with my doctor. So he suggested us insulin pump. Finally, one day, I hate to jump around on your bed. Finally, one day I get I go to his office for my whatever, bi yearly visit. And he got an insulin pump in the office. And he says, You're taking this home with you? And I said, I don't know. I don't know, you know. And so while I hemmed and hawed and ended on and finally I said, Okay, I'll take it home with me, Scott. It's sat in my in my hallway in my house for a year before I started on it.

Scott Benner 18:57
I've heard stories from people back at the beginning of CGM, who would say I mean, up to Victor Garber was on this podcast. And he told me I asked him about a CGM. And if I'm remembering this correctly, he says, I have one of those. It's in my drawer. Yeah. And I was like, Victor, I think you should try it. So I take your point, so it sits in your house for a year

Craig 19:19
or a year. So anyway, one day I finally think, Okay, I'm gonna try this insulin pump. So I get it out. I read the instructions. I call the trainer they come over to train me how to use it. And Scott, it wasn't one day when I realized that I had been making a big mistake. Yeah, I imagine it was that it was that much better.

Scott Benner 19:44
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Craig 21:14
I'd say it was 75% not injecting and 25%. Slowly feeling like you had better control. I mean, when I say better control, I don't think it would have improved my agency greatly right off the bat. But the fact that it kind of alleviated some of the peaks and valleys. Okay, back back, then there still wasn't any compatible GCM. That CGM that worked with the with the pump was pre it was pre that time. So you still had to stick your finger. So that was kind of a big obstacle.

Scott Benner 21:51
Yeah. And is this? I'm trying to do the math. So if you're 11 and 7585, nine, is this the early 90s, early mid 90s.

Craig 22:00
I went back and looked at the timeline for pump introduction. And let's see, what did I find out here on my notes? Where did I write that down?

Scott Benner 22:13
Do you remember what kind of pump it was?

Craig 22:15
Yeah, it was a mini med 530 G, which was in 2007, I believe.

Scott Benner 22:22
Wow. Oh, so you were you're you're older than your mid 20s? By then? For sure. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. Yes. No, no, no. And so And what's your blood sugar testing? Like at that point, you have a meter. But are they very accurate? Like this time as time goes on? And meters get better? Do you look back at them and think, Oh, God, I don't even think they were very accurate or just so much better than what you had, like who cared? Well,

Craig 22:48
I guess before I had the, the test strips that you urinated on. I mean, come on. I mean, compared to that, it was like, it was so much better. I mean, it gave you like a number or whatever I forget, but it was a pretty antiquated looking device by today's standards.

Scott Benner 23:06
Okay. I guess anytime you're not paying on your hand is an increase in your happiness. Yeah. And

Craig 23:12
I hate to say but you don't do it. Yet. As as as a kid growing up, how many times you're doing that a day? Yeah, once,

Scott Benner 23:20
right? Even when you did it when you're just shooting once or twice a day anyway, like if you if you peed on that strip. And once your mom said, hey, it's yellow. would she do anything? Scott,

Craig 23:29
it was always yellow. Gotcha. There was no other color on that test trip. As far

Scott Benner 23:35
as I was concerned. You just named your episode, right? Yeah. Well,

Craig 23:39
it was I just was I hate to tell you, but it was for all the years I use those stress test strips. I didn't even know if they were any good.

Scott Benner 23:48
And that's something. So it's this almost meaningless endeavor. You figure that out? Stop doing it. Yeah. Blah, blah, blah. So are you do you think? Was your mother adjusting your insulin based on your weight? Or do you think the doctor did that? Like once a year, maybe you went in there? And he's like, just here, make it this now instead? And that was kind of it right?

Craig 24:08
Yeah, I really don't know how that was determined. All I can tell you is it was pretty arbitrary. I gotcha. All

Scott Benner 24:15
right. So now we're on the pump. And you're you have your first, by the way, isn't it great that that your first pump, the biggest takeaway was, Wow, I don't have to inject anymore. And now we're sitting around talking about pumps. And we're getting to the point where we're like, Well, with this algorithm, you don't even have to do this. And when this algorithm it does, like it's it's so great, how far it's come, but you're happier. I imagine you're not injecting there's not needles all over the place. At what point do you start using the pump as more than just a way to not have to inject like when do you start understanding the power of it better?

Craig 24:49
Well, without the constant glucose monitoring capability, that was still very much a guess. Everything was a guess. How am I insulin you decided to tell the pump to give you was a guess there was no carb counting. No real testing. You know what I mean? So you kind of just went with it. what worked yesterday you did that again tomorrow. You know what I mean? And today? It wasn't. There was no science wasn't any science, it was just a better tool than it then is faring

Scott Benner 25:24
better than jabbing yourself. But tell me this again. There's no, you hadn't been taught to count carbs at that point? No, no. Oh, wow. And

Craig 25:33
if they did try to teach me that, look, I'm a young man. I'm busy. I have a career and I don't have time for all that. When am I going to do that? How am I going to tell him when he carbs are in and McDonald's cheeseburger? You had no board back then I told you how many what the book The nutrition facts? Were right. So you Penny No,

Scott Benner 25:53
yeah. So you pick a number or an amount of units. And if you don't get dizzy afterwards, you're like, oh, this might work. And

Craig 26:02
guess what? Or you ate something? If it didn't, if it was too much, you know, three hours later, you had to stop at 711 and get something to eat and grab something Oh, like, I you know, fruit, a fruit of fruitcake or candy bar. I mean, I Oh, obviously, a lot of times I carried that with me constantly. Every day, I needed to treat low blood sugar. I'm gonna say for the first 35 years of my life every day.

Scott Benner 26:29
And so almost like, I don't know, like a scale of justice, where you're just kind of pouring insulin on one side, and then you're holding food in your hand and dropping a little food on the other and just trying to keep those scales as balanced as you can, based on how I feel. I got it. Okay. That was that was the method of control that was

Craig 26:49
now seems ridiculous, but

Scott Benner 26:51
that's what it was. Listen, I wish this wasn't your story. Right. But I like it being told it wasn't that bad. Honestly,

Craig 26:57
Scott, I was very successful, I will be able to do anything on non bi diabetic could do. Sure. So it didn't it didn't stop me. Was it a little harder for me? I'd have to think it was Yeah. But it didn't stop me. You

Scott Benner 27:12
don't think of your life when you look back on it as being difficult? Well,

Craig 27:16
it was the it was the hand I was dealt. And you know, to think oh, I can't do this. Because it's too difficult is just an excuse. Yeah, no, I understand. You know, I mean, I don't think that that that gets you anywhere. Yeah. Do you

Scott Benner 27:34
have to get married at some point or have kids? I

Craig 27:37
did in 1992. I married my wonderful wife, which was awesome. But we do not have any children. Okay, was that on purpose? Or my wife wanted to have children. And I kind of was against it, although I would have went along with it. But luckily, and Mike he and I wasn't really I didn't want to bring a diabetic into the world and be honest with you. That's what I was wanting. Yeah, yeah. No, of course, I always thought that. I

Scott Benner 28:04
don't know how it's funny. I've talked to people who come down on both sides of that argument. And I've understood everybody's perspective along the way, I can tell you that when Arden was diagnosed, like we still considered having another child, and I really do think diabetes stopped us from having a third baby. Now, I in the beginning, it would have definitely been been because I didn't we didn't know what we were doing. And if we would have had to do it twice, it would have been a mess. But by the end, it might have been more about our exhaustion than diabetes. I can't I'll never really know for sure, I guess. Well,

Craig 28:37
Scott, you're not you're not a type one diabetic. Of course, you've been able to watch your daughter all these years and you know, experience through her what it's like to be a diabetic. But I can tell you from my point of view, you never want anyone else to become a diabetic. Never. Yeah.

Scott Benner 28:55
It's one of those. I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy thing.

Craig 28:58
Not in a million years. Yeah, I understand. Now, there are worse diseases in the world. Don't get me wrong, but that doesn't. That doesn't take away the fact that somebody should become a diabetic. That's crazy. No, nobody should become a diabetic. In my view.

Scott Benner 29:13
It's tough. Did your mom ever get to see the improvements in care? And did she?

Craig 29:18
Yeah, both my mom and dad are still alive. Oh, geez, how old are they? My mom is in our hair. Early 80s. And my dad is in his mid 80s

Scott Benner 29:30
to either of them have autoimmune issues. Not

Craig 29:32
really, you know, in my home in my whole family. And that was of course, one of the questions initially in the family was well, how did you guys get diabetes, you know? Sure. And I had one of my grandfather's cousins that was a diabetic Other than that, zero other people with any kind of, you know, again, back then. I don't know all of this. Disease and immune diseases and everything weren't quite as obvious as they are today. But but no other signs of immune diseases or diabetes in our family before my brother and I, your parents have arthritis or No, no, their stomachs aren't unsettled they can eat. Well, no kidding. That's something. Yep. Yeah. Wow.

Scott Benner 30:22
How about your brother? Did your brother end up having kids? Yes. Do they have any autoimmune stuff the children know

Craig 30:29
about that. Wow. That was in so far. No problem.

Scott Benner 30:33
You guys are just super lucky. Greg. That's awful. You and your your brother? Do you still talk? So let me go back to you get in the pump. Now. There's your brother have a pump when that happens to you. When you get one. Wow.

Craig 30:45
Not initially. So I got the poem. I was the pioneer, so to speak. And it was I'm going to tell you it wasn't a week after I got the pump that I said to my brother Mark, you gotta get a pump. And it took him like another year or two to get one. I guess we're cut from the same cloth.

Scott Benner 31:03
It sounds like it sounds stubborn guys. Yeah, but But you did. But you were able to get him to get to it eventually. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And

Craig 31:13
he he absolutely said the same thing that it was a huge improvement. And he should have done it sooner. No doubt. Right.

Scott Benner 31:19
Okay, so you're going along like that? When's the first? Like when's the first time you're in a more modern method of management. You're you're thinking about carb counts. And, you know, like that kind of stuff. Like when when do you get into more of a? Because you're there now. Right? Greg? I'm not wrong. Oh, yeah. So

Craig 31:42
when you hear I'm in like the super advanced class class right now.

Scott Benner 31:46
When does that start to happen? And what do you think brought you into it?

Craig 31:51
Well, in 2018, my pump warranty was up on my second mini med pole. And I had tried the Guardian CGM with that. And that was and that didn't work out very well. So when my pump warranty was up, I started looking for other device manufacturers that might have a better a better device for treating diabetes. So I went to the T slim x two with the Dexcom. Five. Oh, okay. Very nice. And yeah, my doctor and everybody, you know, showed me how to carb count and, and all that. And you know, the Quick, quick couple of minutes when you have an appointment. However, I really never never jumped on that boat of counting carbs. However, you know, now you have your blood glucose measurement constantly. So it made the decisions about guessing how much insulin to take a lot better, even without counting carbs, when

Scott Benner 32:53
you see that CGM for the first time. Does it blow your mind? What do you think? Like, I never knew what was happening, or do you have the thought like, Oh, I thought this what was happened? Like, didn't you mean? Like, what did it open your eyes to or or open up for you?

Craig 33:08
You know, gone back? It's it's hard to imagine me. I mean, it's hard for me to remember exactly what it was like, initially, I'm sure it was an eye opener. But against God, you got to understand that, you know, I'm using this as a crutch, so to speak, to get on with my life. Okay, diabetes was not the focus of my attention. Like the main focus my attention, until maybe the last I'm gonna say the last three or four years not that I was out of control. My agencies were always in the sixes. You know, it just, I thought about things I was doing in life, things I wanted to accomplish. You know what I mean? It really, I guess, diabetes, were just not number one. Well, the way

Scott Benner 33:52
it's sounding to me is that see, the way you start? The management is what it is. It doesn't exactly put you on a path of paying close attention to it. And then the pump comes the pumps just a way to get rid of the needles, which is terrific. And then the CGM comes in the CGM, sort of just a way to get rid of like the fingerstick testing to you. It's not you're not looking at it. Like, I wonder what I could do with these things. You're like, this is making my thing easier. Now back to life. That's it. That makes sense.

Craig 34:22
It was a it was a convenience feature. Yeah. Like, oh, I could just look at this. And then that can guide me a little better to what steps I should take as far as insulin management. But it wasn't. It wasn't all of a sudden, like I focused on the readings all day long. No, that didn't happen. Yeah, no.

Scott Benner 34:40
And by the way, I don't expect that this is just because of when you were diagnosed. I don't imagine that that's not happening to somebody right now who was diagnosed a year ago, who's just not looking to be all up in this thing and in constant with it and not wreck or maybe having the same thoughts as you like, maybe this is good enough. I'm standing up You know, I'm doing my thing. Um, it's not stopping me. Why do I need to look farther in this? Or who would even know if there's more? Because most doctors don't talk about it to begin with? Yeah,

Craig 35:09
I'm sure that that whole train of thought is 100%. Right on target. Yeah,

Scott Benner 35:13
that's what I think too. Okay. All right. So, a couple of years ago, you decide or make a leap or something happens. What, what, what in God's name moves you after all this time?

Craig 35:22
Well, in 2020, I switched to a newer 10 To mix to control which was a control. Basal IQ. Yep. Which which regulated your Basal sunlight. And that was a small improvement. And then about a year later, I guess they came out with the control IQ, which was even a step in better in a better direction. And then you're gonna love this. It was only recently May. So right now we are in the end of August, right? In May my pump warranty on my latest tandem T slim. expired. Okay, so every time you know, your pump warranty expires, you start looking okay, which which pumps should I get? You go to the pump store, and you look around, like you're looking for a cell phone, which one has the best features. And what I saw was a world that I never knew existed. Where all the information and technology that had come so far so fast, it blew me away.

Scott Benner 36:30
Yeah. And I, by the way, I don't even know about that whole warranty thing, because Arden has been on a Omni pod her whole life. So I don't think of it that way. Like, she doesn't have a device that gets older and we got to replace it. At some point. She's wearing a new pod every three days. And it's just that it's not how my brain works. But it's interesting the way you describe it. What? So what did you see when you went out there and looked around?

Craig 36:53
When I started to look, I saw two great options that I didn't know existed, okay, the one option was the beta bionics islet pump, which I obviously was really interested in and read all about it and signed up immediately, you know, for the pre order and all that kind of thing, but because I knew, you know, one of the gripes that I had with my tandem control IQ was it was too conservative. It just didn't do enough. So, okay,

Scott Benner 37:25
how so? Was it not attacking your meals as well as you'd like? Was it not keeping? No,

Craig 37:31
no, no, it was it was it was like the, the amount of change that the tandem pump made was so small, it was insignificant, okay. It wouldn't ever capture me quick enough to stop the lows, and it would never give me enough insulin to stop the highs. It moderated them somewhat. But in day to day life, it wasn't a big help.

Scott Benner 37:53
I love that you went from decades of like, this is fine to you're like this not aggressive. That's fantastic.

Craig 38:00
Well, because as you start to gain insight that there are tools available, you really want more. Yep. It's like getting a new car. And all of a sudden, the next year a car comes out with more features. Don't you want the new car?

Scott Benner 38:13
I'll tell you right now this is this is showing you what access gives people? Ya know, it's

Craig 38:19
it's unbelievable. I'm right now it's coming at such a rapid pace compared to what had been done the previous 30 years. Yeah, it's incredible.

Scott Benner 38:26
And listen, you're you're literally excited, you're giddy about it actually does even talk about

Craig 38:31
it. Because because it's great for all of the people now if they can learn and take advantage of it. You know, that to me? Seems like the biggest stumbling point right now is, is the AI? How do you get it out? And tell everybody you know, if the doctor doesn't tell you who's gonna tell you, you're telling people, which I think is, is just phenomenal. But I don't know, is everybody listening to the podcast? I hope they are. But I don't know if they are.

Scott Benner 38:59
I don't have everybody yet. Craig. I'm working on it. So it really is. I try to make the point over and over again that. And I've been thinking about this a lot lately. Because Jenny and I, and I'm sorry, I don't know your level of understanding of the podcast. But it sounds like maybe part of your understanding is coming from the podcast. So I'm gonna definitely yeah, so Jenny and I are working right now on putting on putting together a series for healthcare professionals to walk them through all of the process is from early diagnosis to early at from, you know, early education into understanding insulin like that whole thing. Like we're basically going to put together a podcast series that hopes to teach doctors how to talk about diabetes in a way that won't leave people lost. And just keep going over people's notes and letters and things that they send to me, because I've asked for feedback on this. It's a crime that you would get diabetes in a hospital and someone would tell you, it's just enough to keep you alive. which is what happened to you 50 years ago. And then they get to a doctor who oftentimes won't give them much more information than that. And with the technology being what it is right now, and even before that, like not telling someone how insulin works, I don't know how you manage a person with diabetes without giving them a firm understanding of insulin and what it's doing and how they can use it more effectively. And so I don't know, just hearing your stories means extra to me today, because it's easy to think. Yeah, this happened to Craig because he was diagnosed in the 70s. But if you don't think somebody being diagnosed today on August 24, isn't being treated the same way you are, you're you're not seeing this clearly. The you know, the the people who find this podcast and listen to it, there are a small fraction of the people walking around using insulin. And that that to me is is a shame. So yeah,

Craig 40:55
no, definitely. So I you know, I think today with the, with the evolution of the Internet, and of course, that has come so far, so fast, it's dizzying how fast it all comes out, you know, but that in diabetes is a good thing.

Scott Benner 41:12
Yeah, million percent access to tools, information, other people's stories. It's, it's what speeds everybody up, and gets them through it. And it's exactly the opposite of how the medical community thinks about disseminating information.

Craig 41:30
I don't know why they don't change. I don't get it. Yeah, well, I don't know what either, although I hear I hear that over and over on your podcast that, you know, the people that are supposed to be supporting you don't give you the information that seems so obvious or worse, don't understand it themselves. One or the other. Maybe that's why I don't know why they're not giving it to you. All I can tell you is, from what I've heard, and my own experiences, and I have nothing against my endocrinologist. I mean, I get it, they only get paid so much. You go in and look, every time I go for my visits. I'm doing good. I'm like the star patient. And this is before what I learned recently, yeah, that's with you on a reason that say, Well, did you ever think about change and trying this new thing? You know, even though they should have they didn't? That's

Scott Benner 42:23
such a good point, you start getting judged against the people who are doing so poorly. You look like yours? I mean, what do you sit in there with your tandem? T slim? What's your a one say?

Craig 42:32
i A one C was in the mid 60s 626466. You know, it fluctuated a little bit. But right around that range consistently over the past four or five years.

Scott Benner 42:45
And that's very good. But what you're saying is, is that because somebody else coming in after you in that office is walking in with an eight or a 10, or whatever, you're like, you know what it is? It's like there's three kids. And one of them's a great student and the other to struggle. So no one ever helps the grade student with their homework. And that person that kid inevitably always whenever you meet them as adults will tell you a sad story about when I was in school, my parents never helped me with my homework. And I and they'll tell you I know why it's because I was doing better than the other ones and other people needed help too. But it still has a really bad effect on them and that's the same thing you're walking there with your six to and nobody's talking to you about anything because they figure you must have it all figured out. By the way you live your whole life with a six to it'd be amazing it doesn't mean you don't deserve more information or you know an opportunity at the very least you went looked at the island now the island is kind of talking about holding a seven a one C for people but with all you have to do is tell it I'm having a big meal a small meal or extra large meal. Would you do that? Would you take extra a one C for that? That comfort? Wow.

Craig 43:58
In the beginning, I was really attracted to the No to the less work yeah. However, I think switching from a tandem Yes, I would have I would have accepted the seven to do less work because the tandem still requires a lot of user input constantly. It's just the algorithm is like I said it's not it's not up to the job so you're always tweaking it always Yeah, so I'm thinking wow if I get this eyelid I don't have to do all the tweaking all I do is live my life and that's what they're kind of advertising and and maybe that's true. I don't know I don't have it. Yeah, I haven't even been able to find that many people reviewing what it's like it's very slim at this point. Yeah, I

Scott Benner 44:45
don't think a lot of people are wearing it to be honest. At the Yeah, I

Craig 44:48
don't know if they like it or not. I mean, I don't I don't see it out there. I don't see any information on on the results, you know, outside of a

Scott Benner 44:55
few smaller company. It's gonna take them a while to get it out in the world. Here's what I think I'd be happy to share what I think about Ireland in a couple of sentences. Most people who are living with a one C over seven, I think it's probably a no brainer for them. Put it on big meal, small meal, medium meal, boom, I have a seven and a one C in the sevens, I'd say sign me up if I was in that situation, if you're you, and you know what a six, two looks like. Now, if you're a person who can get an A one C and the fives, you know, you're not going to be looking for that. But to your earlier point about how fast technology is moving, who knows when we're going to wake up and the people that I let are going to be like, Hey, I let keep seeing the sixes, hey, islet we're shooting for like, I don't know what they're gonna keep doing it. They might

Craig 45:43
be it might be capable of that. Now, I don't I don't know. Because I don't have any reports. I have no evidence.

Scott Benner 45:49
They're very clearly saying in their marketing, that they're shooting for sevens and he was pretty well, they're not they're not they're not over promising. Yeah, we'll see. Yeah, to your point. Or maybe it's something that they had to do with the FDA for set. Like I have no idea. I can tell you that tonight. Yeah, I can say this on here. Tonight. I gotta think about when things happen. Like when people hear it, not just what is happening here. Yeah, we're gonna sit down tonight and build art in an Iaps. System. And okay, I did that already did. Yeah. We're gonna move her off a loop and try Iaps and see what that is. So yeah, so all this talking. We don't know what you're doing right now. Correct. Like, what is your management right now? What do you get into that? Yeah, you're doing a good job laying this out. By the way. I said you never did this.

Craig 46:33
I'm glad I'm keeping you on the hook. I

Scott Benner 46:35
know you're doing a great job of telling the story.

Craig 46:39
I love killing you.

Scott Benner 46:41
I love I loved earlier when you said I'm sorry for jumping around. I was the one jumping around you were the one trying to get back to the story. So but go ahead. I'm sorry. Good. So what do you what are you up to now?

Craig 46:51
So when I started to look, I know I told you I found the islet, but I also found a really, really fantastic option. I discovered that we are not waiting movement. Okay. And the more I learned and the more I studied about the movement and all of the advantages to DIY systems, I was immediately convinced this was the way to

Scott Benner 47:22
go. Yeah. That's hard to argue with. That's for sure. What did you end up doing? Did you loop?

Craig 47:27
I did not live because I don't have an iPhone. I have an Android. Oh, you did? APS. Oh. So that that pushed me right over to Android APs. And it wasn't easy. Scott, I read all that documentation. I don't know how many times and I'm not gonna you know, kid, anybody that transitioning is easy. However, it wasn't just about Android APS, the system, the algorithm, it was about the learning. Okay. The learning about carbs. The learning are about, you know, different type of carbs, the learning about insulin, the different types of insulin, things I never knew, which is crazy. In this day and age. I have no idea.

Scott Benner 48:10
I don't think it's crazy at all. But I love that you went on the trip and you learned

Craig 48:14
Wow, it was it was I'm telling you I've been obsessed. For the past three months. I've been obsessed, because I know that if I can get all this in my brain. And you know and make sense of it all. It is absolutely the way to go. Right now. There is nothing that comes close. Nothing. These people are the greatest gift. The diabetes ever. Yeah, I think I agree with you. I really don't. They're all volunteers. They all do it because they don't want to be diabetics, either. Yeah, they want to be free of diabetes. So they have decided to make a difference. Yep. It almost brings me to tears that all these people are working this hard. Yeah. For free. Yeah. And then they just let all of us join in for free.

Scott Benner 49:05
It's uncommon to me, isn't it? Oh, it's

Craig 49:07
unbelievable. That me really shows that the world is is really full of great people. No, I

Scott Benner 49:15
couldn't agree with you more. I don't know them all, like by name. And it's a shame that there's there's no way to like categorize them all over. I can just tell you that when somebody brought it to me the first time and said, Hey, I think you should try this. And we got involved. It was the same process. I didn't know what I was doing. I'm lucky enough to have the podcast, like people helped me build apps and things like that. So like when I said tonight, we're gonna make IEPs What I meant was, Mike, who's the guy who has been on the show before is when it's, it's good to zoom in with me and be like, click there, dummy, click there, dummy. And I'm gonna and I'm gonna do that. And so we've been lucky that way. But I agree with you like, one of the first. Listen, I was pretty good at diabetes before loop. I had Arden say one scene fives I knew what I was doing. Like all that stuff I talked about in the Pro Tip series, I pulled it together and I would do it Temp Basal Ling. You know, extended Bolus is like, you know, peppering insulin across timelines, like stuff like that is when you stop and think about it. After you've seen looping. All I was doing was I was acting like an algorithm. Yes. And then when you see the algorithm, I mean, I've said this so many times, I feel like I'm repeating myself. But when you watch the algorithm give you more basil, or make a Bolus out of nowhere, or take basil away. That's when your brain goes, Oh, my God, like, we're lucky to be doing this. Well, with a static Basal rate. We're lucky to be doing this well, with injecting basil like, I don't even know like, how many variables like you were talking about as a young person? How many times am I eating or exercising or doing something like that to make my body fit into the way I'm giving it insulin? Instead of making the way I'm giving insulin fit what my body needs? Like, that's just a super switch over and it teaches you so fast about diabetes, when you watch it work? I know the excitement you're having because I had it years ago, and you're it's like, somebody pulls up the curtain and goes here. This is how it actually happens. It's fantastic.

Craig 51:13
Oh, it's amazing. I mean, you know, the Android APS has one feature that I personally, I think is a great feature that Lupin and IPS don't have not that I'm knocking them by any stretch of the imagination. But one thing I'm gonna say that that is included in and varied. APS is the forced learning. Yeah, you have you have to learn how to use the app and understand how diabetes management works. Before you get to use the company. All the features on the app. Yeah, yeah, basically, you I just, I just, I just finished my learning. Yesterday. I completed all of the all the objectives yesterday. Oh, no kidding.

Scott Benner 52:04
So So explain that to people me three months, explain it to people a little bit you you build the app, but then you basically have to, like answer questions to move forward to unlock the app as you move. Is that right? Am I understand that correctly?

Craig 52:17
Yeah. And the questions are complex, to say the least. But they have accurate, excellent documentation that the volunteers have all put together, that that obviously, in detail, explain all of the every fact every every facet of diabetes, as explained in these documents, and whatever is incorporated into this app, they develop the questions based on knowing all that information, like you know exactly how to carbs impact you and how long it in your system, and on and on and on. And if you don't get the questions, right, you can't move ahead. Yeah. And they're not easy. My wife and I sat. And, you know, at one point, I had to say to her, Look, you got to help me with this. I can't figure it out. And we'll read through the documentation and trying to come up with the answers. And it was, it was really a great exercise. Looking back at it. Was it frustrating at the time? Absolutely. Sure. But do I think in the end, it was a great learning experience, the best it was, I don't know how to develop such a, such a clever way to go about letting people use the app by making sure that they learn that to me is is incredibly important. Smart

Scott Benner 53:46
people, you know, I mean, really, hey, I'm gonna ask you a bit of a bummer question. I'm gonna put it in here now, because I don't want to ask it at the end. Sure, if Android APS existed, when your wife was talking about having a baby, do you think that would have changed things for you? No, no, you okay? You're, you're more

Craig 54:03
I guess not gonna. It's not gonna stop my genetics. Gotcha. Okay.

Scott Benner 54:08
I wanted to make sure I understood. I was like, I wish Yeah, no, I understand. Okay, how long have you been using Android APs.

Craig 54:17
I started on June 6. And in the beginning, I stayed on my tandem pump. And I set up the Android APS system on my on my phone. I built the app, which again, that wasn't easy, either, but anybody can do it. But it takes patience, but I did it. I'm not a computer geek by any stretch of the imagination. I'm unlike you, Scott. I grew up in the sheetmetal business, did you but anyway, yeah, yeah, I own my own HVAC shop.

Scott Benner 54:46
Oh, no kidding. You. Also you and I live oddly close to each other. Because yeah, no, I

Craig 54:51
when I heard that on the podcast, I was like, wow, sheetmetal guy and he's in New Jersey. That's unbelievable.

Scott Benner 54:58
So you built your app. and you're using it with the tandem pump. So that's I don't know about APS,

Craig 55:04
no, I didn't use it with the tandem pump, I kept the tandem pump on. Okay. And now I had an old mini med pump and I got the orange link similar to like what you do it loop. And I set it all up. And now I was able to run it alongside without attaching it to myself for like a week, I think to get a feel for how it all worked without without putting myself in jeopardy, so to speak, because I wasn't sure I knew what I was doing. And that is explained in the documentation that you should kind of do a trial without it attached to you. And that that was really the key to getting a feel for the app and all of the different settings and how to use them. Even though you know, in the beginning, you're certainly not an expert. Right. But you know, you're tiptoeing into it, instead of jumping in i It makes

Scott Benner 55:55
a lot of sense because it makes it available to people who are willing to do that work. And that I think is, again, that's access and it's options. Not everybody is going to do what you did. Not everybody's going to like there's plenty people who hear this and gray, that'd be wonderful. But I can't do that, or I don't want to or I'm not willing to put that effort into it like they know themselves. Right? And it's not, it doesn't give you it's what is it like? It's like making you go over a three month obstacle course before you drive a Ferrari. Like if everybody can relate, yeah, if everybody could just jump into it and go, there'd be a lot of crash Ferraris at the end of the street. And so we don't we don't want that. So the process weeds out people who might not do well with it. And I think that's

Craig 56:39
that's the part that I'm really not that happy about. I don't want to weed anybody out from being in better control.

Scott Benner 56:46
Yeah. Well, I mean, I think all we can hope this is me. I think all we can hope is that all the pump companies keep hearing these conversations about these, these DIY things and say to themselves, can we bring that level of control to the masses? Like, how can we do that? I hope they're all thinking about it, you know, because it's great to put somebody in a not counting carbs situation and give them an A one C and a seven, I think that's terrific. But if you can do that, can you keep working on it and put them into a different situation with a more stability? A lower a one C? Like that kind of stuff? Like I hope they keep all going after it? You know,

Craig 57:24
I think they will just is the pace quick enough. For me. It's never quick enough for me

Scott Benner 57:31
right? Now. It's gonna be fine for a kid against diabetes 20 years from now, but you're sitting here 61 years old, you need it now. So yeah, I

Craig 57:39
mean, it's great to have it now. And honestly, you know, one of one of the main points that I wanted to, you know, bring bring about, you know, by coming on the podcast was that people have to, I should have been looking more along the way, I should have been more open to change. Yeah, and I wasn't. And that is a big mistake.

Scott Benner 58:07
I'm glad that you're willing to share that message. And I don't know how much of the podcast you've ever heard. But that's been my attitude forever. And I can't take credit for that. It's because my friend Mike was diagnosed, you know, when we were in our late teens, and he just didn't move along with things. And now even just hearing your story is upsetting for me, because I think this is what happened to Mike. And like, what's the randomness that allowed you to go forward healthy, didn't allow Mike to do it? You know, like, we'll never know what that is. But yeah,

Craig 58:41
that's, that's, that's tough. And I really, I can't explain that myself. Honestly, I am one of the healthiest people. I know. I mean, I have friends that aren't even here anymore. It's 61 and all my type one diabetic for 90% of those years, and I'm still here. It's crazy. No,

Scott Benner 59:03
I know that, that that bit of it is I mean, that's the unknown part about life in general, but

Craig 59:10
not this kind of the other. The other point that I wanted to make as far as I'm living with, with with diabetes is, you know, I use it as a motivation tool during my life, that look, whatever I wanted to accomplish, whether it was sports when I was a kid, or you know, as you get older, getting married and finding the right woman or, you know, I built my own house, I I have a boat in the Caribbean. I have an island in the Caribbean, I house on an island in the Caribbean. Anything I ever wanted. I use diabetes as sort of like the motivator like, hey, I can do this. In spite of diabetes. If I want to do it. I'm going to do it and I want to make sure that I can say diabetes didn't stop me.

Scott Benner 1:00:03
I think you can say that. That sounds that sounds for sure. Well, I appreciate you coming on and sharing that perspective. I really do. Would you tell me what Island when we're done like not where people can hear but when we're not being recorded? Yeah.

Craig 1:00:17
Okay. Why do you want to go to an island? Everybody wants to go to an island Scott, especially if you were working out in the cold as a as a sheetmetal? Worker.

Scott Benner 1:00:25
No kidding. You did HVAC your whole life.

Craig 1:00:29
I started an HVAC around 1985.

Scott Benner 1:00:34
Were you union shop?

Craig 1:00:37
I was both non union and union. We're an independent shop. Okay. But most of our work was done with government type contracts. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:00:47
Okay. Because the work kind of dried up in Philly a decade ago. Right. Like, that's when I got out of it. Yeah. Because the buildings, the buildings went from being built to needing maintenance and the guys that were putting in the dock didn't some of them didn't shift quickly enough to the maintenance side of his I do I have that about right. Sort of

Craig 1:01:07
Yeah, I guess business in general is a lot like diabetes. It's always changing.

Scott Benner 1:01:13
Yeah, you got to save up. Is there anything we didn't talk about that we should have?

Craig 1:01:19
Oh, probably, but nothing I can think of right now. I really want to commend you for the for the work that you're doing with this podcast. I mean, when I found the podcast, which was to Facebook, by the way, and probably through that we are not waiting. When I when I started to do research into what that was all about. I discovered that Juicebox Podcast, it is absolutely a wealth of knowledge. And I know you've made the point many times where all you have to do is listen, and you're learning something. Where else can you do that? You can't do it hardly anywhere else. I don't know of anywhere else.

Scott Benner 1:01:56
I took the reading out of learning. I mean, come on.

Craig 1:01:59
Yeah, I think that's fantastic.

Scott Benner 1:02:02
I appreciate it.

Craig 1:02:02
I hope you're able to keep up with it for a good long time.

Scott Benner 1:02:06
I've been doing it for nine years. I'm not stopping now. So I appreciate it very much. And

Craig 1:02:10
I wish you and your your daughter, of course, the best of luck. And, you know, it sounds to me with your guidance. You know, even though I've heard in some of the podcasts that maybe you don't think that everything that you're suggesting gets through, she's a young woman, but at any time, she will realize that, you know, what you have been telling her is really sensible. Yeah. You know, as a young man, you can tell me anything, either, I don't think you would probably not much different. As you as you age, you realize that, hey, maybe somebody can tell me something?

Scott Benner 1:02:50
Well, when she went off to college, it was a big, it was a big boost for me, because I really watched her take good care of herself. Like, you know, college food is horrendous, you know, processed and not quality. And she maintained 6.4 I think while she was away at college on her own, she was gone for a chunk of time, like, three months. And then she was back for a little bit. But then she was gone for almost six months. And she did that on her own, you know, while being a freshman in college. So I thought she she between the the algorithm and the technology and what we've been beaten in her head slowly. But she really did do a good job. She had, you know, a couple lows. But she managed them and was really, I was really proud of her. So

Craig 1:03:35
if I if I can offer our nanny advice it would be to not let your dad build the Iaps as you do it. Let her look at it and watch it Oh, absolutely. Oh, let her do it or want to do it. That's that's the difference, Scott, that is the difference in getting better at anything in life and diabetes, especially. It's learning.

Scott Benner 1:04:00
She usually sits here when we do it. Maybe I'll I'll I'll shove her over in front of the keyboard instead.

Craig 1:04:05
Get her? Yeah, I think that it would be nice if she heard this and said to herself, hey, Craig is probably right. I shouldn't be just telling my dad, let me do that. Like on your own accord.

Scott Benner 1:04:17
When we get to that day. Correct? Then I'll know I'm out of this.

Craig 1:04:20
That's why That's why I never I never moved on to another thing. Yeah. I didn't know about it that maybe it wasn't available. I wasn't looking.

Scott Benner 1:04:31
Yeah. And I guess what you're you're totally right, that now that you're involved, now that you're in the game, you're going to keep paying attention to what's happening. And then something else will come along and you'll say no, that's not for me. But then something eventually will come along and you'll think yeah, that's a good leap. I'll take that leap. Let me ask you a follow up of a final question. Do you worry about or are you planning for when you get older? And like because right now obviously you're you're incredibly sharp and you know easy to talk to you have recollection and all that. But what happens when you start to get a little older? And you still have to manage your diabetes? Is that something you think about?

Craig 1:05:08
I think about it in general, it's hard to pinpoint what I'm going to do. I mean, you know, I'm not much of a pre planner, other than I know, it'll be different than today. That See, that's

Scott Benner 1:05:23
exactly how I think about it. I have to adapt, you'll have to adapt. But also the stuff is going to get better and better. And when you hope should make Yeah, I do, too, which I think should make it, you know, more manageable.

Craig 1:05:35
Well, I've been I've been reading about all of the new algorithm features that they're that all these great programmers all over the world are working together on and it is amazing. The thoughts and creations that they're working on. Scott is just amazing. Yeah. It's, it's, it's beyond anything I could imagine.

Scott Benner 1:05:59
I'm starting to hear about systems where people aren't even announcing carbs. And well, that's

Craig 1:06:04
part of this. Android APS right now. Yeah. So that's something else I'm looking forward to when they have the unannounced meals, which I haven't ventured into trying yet. But I could. And, you know, obviously, it depends on you educating yourself to what all the settings do. Exactly. And getting them fine tuned. Exactly. But right now there are, I'm gonna say hundreds, if not 1000, or more people throughout the world that are just eating, they're not doing anything. Yeah. They're just eating and letting the algorithm do its

Scott Benner 1:06:40
job. Yeah, that that almost made me cry. Just when you said that just now. And I don't have God,

Craig 1:06:45
and it's going to get better. Yeah, because they're working on what they call branches, which are new branches to refine that system to make it even better. Now, I

Scott Benner 1:06:55
know, I've been watching, I've been watching nice people work on loop for years, and they take an idea and they try something else. And like, Ooh, I love that. But I wish it did this, and they make little. It's fantastic. It really is. Um, it's so cool that you found it after the journey has been on honestly, it's really, really Yeah. So

Craig 1:07:11
for me going to one shot in a day that who knows what it did? Because this is i It's like going to the moon. Yeah, in your own car. I mean, it's just crazy. It's

Scott Benner 1:07:23
a great way to play it. And you trust me. It's unbelievable. That's

Craig 1:07:27
how far we're going to advancement it is. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:07:29
And you will get them one day you'll get the thought in your head. You'll think I'm gonna try this no one else meal thing and you'll you'll look into it. You really you will. So Wow. Yeah,

Craig 1:07:39
I'm kinda I'm so happy with what I'm doing now. Still, like, you know, I listen, I've only been counting carbs for three months. God. Before that, it was all it was all guesswork. I have to tell you, we like like you say on the podcast, I look at a meal. Oh, that's six years. Yeah. That's what I did my whole life. Trust me.

Scott Benner 1:07:59
That's still what Arden does. Like we she and I had lunch together yesterday. And her food came out. And she's she just had a cortisone shot in her shoulder. So everything's a little wonky, with her blood sugars, but we're doing a good job keeping it down until till that initial hit goes away. But um, but the the meal came out. And she goes, she's looking at it. And she said, tell me how much you think I should Bolus? And she said, I'll tell you what I'm thinking. I said, Okay, so I got done. I said, I have a card number in my head. And she goes, me too. And I said, I have 60. And she goes, I have 65. And I do 65. Like she wasn't going to do 60 Because I said it but even just that was just looking at the plate. Like neither of us did that we both looked at the plate and came up with that number, you know, and it's very doable. I know that early on. I can't imagine people believe that. But eventually you just kind of get good at it. So And honestly,

Craig 1:08:54
even me, I mean, I look at all the labels, at least in the past two months, I'm looking at every label, I count the carbs, I convert the protein and fat into a car, you know, into a carb equivalent. I take the shot for the amount of carbs that are straightforward on the labels. And I enter the you know the fat and protein conversion into another button that stretches it out over three or more hours. Yep. But guess what, Scott? It's not exact science now, it still isn't exact so we're doing it your way gave you the same result. Probably and it is it a lot more less work. Yeah, probably but it doesn't mean that you shouldn't know how to do to carb counting. It doesn't mean that you can you know skip that but you don't have it's still a guess nothing is perfect.

Scott Benner 1:09:47
I agree. I really don't listen, I until Artem was on loop. We weren't counting carbs at all we were we were counting. We were looking at food and making like a a unit gas in our Ahead, it was actually getting loop that made art in, we had to reverse engineer we in the beginning, we'd look at the plate and go, Oh, that's seven units and then say, alright, well, her her ratio is this. So seven units means this many carbs. And that's how we were. That's how we did it in the beginning. And now she just looks at the plate and then a card number pops into her head instead of a unit number. It's just you can do it. You don't I mean, just takes and that's

Craig 1:10:23
fine. I think that's fine. Yeah. If that's the way you want to do it, that's fine. Because now what your glucose monitor, you're going to see your results. So when the same meal comes up again, you're going to go Oh, last time that didn't work out. So well. Let me do it a little differently, more or less based on what your result was last time? Yep. That's really the defining tool that you need is experience.

Scott Benner 1:10:48
Experience. And you only get that by doing it. So fortunately, yes,

Craig 1:10:53
but But you know, the closer guests you can get by being educated to how to guess, right, the better it is. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:10:59
100%. So you found the podcast? Have you listened through like you listen to it, like for management stuff? Do you like people's stories? What do you appreciate about it?

Craig 1:11:10
I like to listen to the episodes where there is a feature that is a teaching moment. You know, I know that my story right here has been a lot of just my experience. Personally, I don't find that that that. That useful? Mean? Entertaining, right. But I never even listened to a podcast before your podcast. So you know, I turned on the radio and listen to music. I never you know, I never listened to a podcast before I understand.

Scott Benner 1:11:42
I'm sorry. I ruined music for you. So

Craig 1:11:46
I still listen to the music to Scotland.

Scott Benner 1:11:50
Thank you so much for doing this man. I really do appreciate it. No,

Craig 1:11:54
thank you for doing it's got you are you're the you know, the linchpin in this education movement. You know, one of the linchpins anyway, in your own way. And all of that is really a huge advantage to diabetics everywhere. And I would only hope that people with other kinds of afflictions have the same resources because it is really important education is really important.

Scott Benner 1:12:21
Yeah, I agree. And I appreciate your words. Thank you so much. Okay, Scott. Yep. Hold on for me for a second. Okay.

Unknown Speaker 1:12:27
Sure.

Scott Benner 1:12:32
A huge thank you to one of today's sponsors, G voc glucagon. Find out more about Chivo Capo pen at G Vogue glucagon.com Ford slash juicebox. you spell that GVOKEGL You see ag o n.com. Forward slash juicebox. I want to thank the ever since CGM for sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast. Learn more about its implantable sensor, smart transmitter and terrific mobile application at ever since cgm.com/juicebox. Get the only implantable sensor for long term wear get ever since. A huge thank you to one of today's sponsors, ag one drink ag one.com/juice box, you can start your day the same way I do with a delicious drink of ag one. Lots of people with autoimmune seem to have trouble with their thyroid. And that's why I've made the defining thyroid series juicebox podcast.com. Click on defining thyroid the menu to find out more. If you're looking for community around type one diabetes, check out the Juicebox Podcast private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes, but everybody is welcome type one type two gestational loved ones. It doesn't matter to me. If you're impacted by diabetes, and you're looking for support, comfort or community check out Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes on Facebook. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast. The episode you just heard was professionally edited by wrong way recording. Wrong way recording.com