Scott Benner 6/25/24 Scott Benner 6/25/24

Omnipod 5 and Dexcom G7 Updates - Juicebox Podcast Episode 1234

Welcome to episode 1234 of the Juicebox Podcast! In this special episode, we bring you the latest updates from the diabetes technology world. Scott Benner discusses exciting news about the Omnipod 5 and Dexcom G7, including new integrations and features now available in the US, UK, France, and the Netherlands. Learn about the compatibility of Omnipod 5 with both Dexcom G6 and FreeStyle Libre 2, and discover the new Rapid Reconnect feature of Dexcom G7 for enhanced Bluetooth range and quicker reconnection. Whether you're a long-time listener or new to the Juicebox Podcast, this episode is packed with valuable insights for managing type 1 diabetes with the latest tools and technologies.

Don't miss out on these important updates – listen now and stay informed about the advancements that can help improve your diabetes management!

You can always listen to the Juicebox Podcast here but the cool kids use: Apple Podcasts/iOS - Spotify - Amazon Music - Google Play/Android - iHeart Radio - Radio Public, Amazon Alexa or wherever they get audio.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends and welcome to a special short episode of The Juicebox Podcast. This is episode 1234.

Well, there's a bunch of news coming out of the diabetes world today I have some for you from Omni pod about the Omni pod five, which includes news about France, the Netherlands, the UK and the United States and some really cool additions to the Dexcom G seven app. Stay tuned, I'll tell you all about it. Please don't forget that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan or becoming bold with insulin. When you place your first order for ag one with my link, you'll get five free travel packs and a free year's supply of vitamin D. Drink ag one.com/juice box. If you're looking for community around type one diabetes, check out the Juicebox Podcast private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes, but everybody is welcome type one type two gestational loved ones. It doesn't matter to me. If you're impacted by diabetes, and you're looking for support, comfort or community check out Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes on Facebook

today's episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by cozy Earth cozy earth.com use the offer code juice box to save 30% off of your entire order. And I'm talking about the shorts that I'm wearing now the sheets I slept in last night and the towels that I dried off with this morning. Those things and every item at cozy earth.com can be had by you for 30% off if you use the offer code juicebox at checkout, use the link in the show notes or type in cozy earth.com Anywhere you get there is good with me. I've got some Omni pod and Dexcom news for you today. I'm gonna start with Omni pod. Let's begin with our friends in France. Omni pod five integrates with Dexcom G six CGM that's now available for eligible individuals with type one diabetes. And it has reimbursements that is from the French national authority for health Ha's Are you kidding me? France Omnipod five with Dexcom G six. Very cool. Let's jump over to America. On the pod five with Dexcom G seven integration is now available for new customers. existing users are going to receive information on how to transition in the coming weeks. Omni pod five with Dexcom g7 integration. That wasn't enough for you. Look at you greedy. That's okay. How about this, the Omnipod five app for iPhone is now in limited market release. Initially, this is compatible with the Dexcom G six. But here we go kids, it's a common. Let's go over what we just said. And then we'll go back to some more new news. But right now we're looking at AMI pod five compatible with Dexcom G six CGM that's available in France for individuals ages two and above. Ami pod five with Dexcom G seven integration is now available to new customers in the US existing Omni pod five users in the US will be provided with further information on how to get started in the coming weeks. And there's a limited market release of the Omni pod five app for iPhone. This has begun and is currently available for Dexcom G six integration. I have more news from Omni pod in a second. And we've got two really cool things coming from Dexcom. Actually, they're available just hold on. I'll tell you about them. But first, let me tell you why you're able to get this interesting content pumped into your ears. It's because the good people at cozy Earth sponsored this episode of The Juicebox Podcast cozy earth.com use the offer code juicebox at checkout to save 30% off of your entire order. I'm talking about the shorts that I'm wearing right now, which I'm pretty certain. I'm just going to live all damn summer and I'm talking about shirts, towels, sheets, anything that touches your bits and your bagels. And you want it to be comfortable and quality. You want to get it from cozy earth.com use the offer code juicebox at checkout or the link in the show notes of this episode of The Juicebox Podcast. Sorry, I don't know why I went to that big voice. I just want you to really use the link, because cozy Earth will be like oh, we you know bought an ad on the podcast and then people bought like sweatpants and stuff and we'll buy more ads and then Scott will make more podcasts that you see how this works. You want this stuff you gotta click. That's all I'm saying. And I'll tell you who's not a sponsor today. But I'll tell you anyway omnipod.com/juice box to learn more about the Omni pod and dexcom.com/juice box to long term sponsors. Long, long, long time of the Juicebox Podcast click on those links, make the clicky clicky go get yourself some sweatpants, some shorts some towels, a off the sheets. I can feel them now in my head. And also this morning when I got out of the shower. I took my cozy Earth waffle towel, and I patted myself everywhere dry. Everywhere dry. Speaking of everywhere, did you think we left out the good folks in the United Kingdom on today's good news with Omni pod? We did not hear comms if you're in the UK and Omni pod five integrates with the Dexcom G six and when I say and get ready for this, the FreeStyle Libre two plus CGM god damn I say god damn news is coming out every corner those are available for you right now in the United Kingdom. If you're two years and older and you have type one diabetes, we're talking about Omnipod five the G six or Omnipod five without FreeStyle Libre two plus. Now, here's what's happening. If you're live in the Netherlands, you think well I heard about France. I heard about the US I heard about the UK. I didn't get nothing. Hold up Netherlands. Omni pod five and Dexcom G six. And and the FreeStyle Libre two plus sensors are now available for you as well in the Netherlands. I want to be honest, I'm from America. I don't really know where the Netherlands are. But I imagine windmills and tulips and my clothes. Doesn't matter. You guys are getting Omnipod five with Dexcom G six and FreeStyle Libre two plus, as well. You get down to pod five. And you get on new pod five. And that was Oprah right? She was she's like you get a car. You get a car and Oprah used to give away cars. Television used to be huge. I have no idea anymore. It's not for nothing. Here's the summary. I'll break it down as of today. insolate has announced that the Omnipod five is compatible with both Dexcom G six and FreeStyle Libre two plus, in the UK and the Netherlands. What do you think of that kids? Things are chugging along. Am I wrong? Oh, I'm not wrong at all. Things are happening. I love when things happen. Hey, before I move on to Dexcom, I just realized I forgot something kind of big right? So we're talking about Omni pod five, in America with Dexcom G seven. But when these new pods arrive in your pharmacy, they're going to be backwards compatible. That means if you have a Dexcom G seven, those Omni pod fives will work with it. And if you have a Dexcom G six, it will also work with those new Omni pod five pods. Now the kind of genius thing about that is that you're not going to need to interact with your insurance at all about this and you won't need new prescriptions from your doctor. That's really fantastic. I just love that when the time is right for you and their stock at your local pharmacy that you're not going to have to go back through insurance or through your doctor to move from G six with Omnipod. Five to G seven. All right, you got it. You understand all the Omnipod stuff. Let's jump over to Dexcom because they did a couple of really cool things. And one of them like they're just not even talking about I think it's the biggest deal of the whole the whole shebang, shebang, Shaboom Shaboom. A little during Durden. That's a song I know from Happy Days, which is a TV show from the 70s. But a song from the 50s. Go figure that out. Let's get the Dexcom. But before I let you go, let's do something else. I got an email here from the goodly people at Dexcom. While we're reading emails, let me see if you wouldn't be interested in it. Let me just drag it up here. What is this? Where is this happening? This a cocktail email. Where'd it go? Oh, here it is. I got a door. This is a you know a week or so ago. But you know, great place to put it in this little episode. Got an email here from Dexcom. And they're talking about how they've got Apple Watch integration. This is direct to Apple Watch. I'm just going to read from the email Dexcom g7 is the first and only CGM system that can connect directly to your Apple Watch. I'll be gosh darn. manage diabetes, hands free. Connect your sensors directly to your Apple Watch so you can leave your iPhone behind. Now there's a little like a little thing. Apparently there's something out there and find out about this. You know they asterik things and still see your glucose numbers update your Dexcom g7 app now to experience Direct Apple Watch. I'm sorry, I don't know why I'm using my super serious podcast at voice let's see. automatically activate logging, simplified meal logging and new medication logging help you better understand how activity food and medications impact your glucose in real time so it's easier to make informed decisions and gain more control. Oh, maybe you really should update this app. Upgrade required. Upgraded Bluetooth and rapid reconnect. They're calling this what is this Dexcom g7 now has upgraded Bluetooth with rapid reconnect delivering a 65% Farther range and a quicker reconnection when you go out of range. This keeps you connected longer. So you have less time without your numbers. Hey, holy How did this get under the Apple Watch announcement? Oh Dexcom if I was over there, I would have gone the other way with this one. Hold on a second he Sookie, this is something else. I didn't even read this email. I've had this email for this email for 15 days and I haven't looked at it. Do you think the PR people next time are like oh great, fantastic. That's fine. Great. Don't read the email Scott. You know how hard they work on these emails lovely people work really hard on these emails. But this to me is the story like listen if you've been waiting for direct Apple Watch from G seven then I mean good on you. You got it. But this here, let me let me talk about this again. They've upgraded the Bluetooth and they're calling it rapid reconnect Dexcom G seven now has upgraded Bluetooth with rapid reconnect delivering a 65% Farther range more range. So what you people been bitching about since it came out? How come I don't see everybody celebrating online? You can plane and you complain and you complain and then you get what you asked for and I don't hear a peep out anybody 65% Farther range and a quicker reconnection when you go out of range. God damn, I got it. Let me ask the kid if she updated or hold on a second. What's her name? Arden? Hey, if there is a Dexcom G seven app upgrade available.

You in your app store? Please update it. God damn. What do you mean? Parenting through text? Huh? Well, gay Dexcom Hold on a second. Why didn't go baby. Way to go wait a pump out, rapid reconnect and not even mentioned it. You guys got all excited about the Apple Watch thing? Huh? And this enhanced event logging? That's obviously new medication logging. Event law. What is this Dexcom g7 direct to Apple Watch. This new feature allows you to experience unmatched freedom, unmatched freedom and convenience. Check out this article to learn more and get a few tips. Oh, it's a link. I'm not giving you the link. What is this? The Dexcom design shop looking on the pod and Dexcom just out there just going like here's some stuff and here's some stuff. You get a g7 integration. You get Apple Watch integration. And you get it's like that Oprah thing. Remember Oprah she used to be famous at a splash of your fun weight of your fun. I didn't read that right add a splash of fun to your welcome back to read the email with Scott to your Dexcom g7 with the under the sea decorative patches under the sea decorative patches. I sounds like something I'm going to be skipping. But I'm going to click on anyway. Oh, there's a Dexcom design shop. Oh, they got these overlays you can put the pictures on them. Hmm. They're $16 So I guess the ones that come with her clear, but I got like little baseballs and softballs beside some puppy dogs. steaks and fish oranges. Hmm. All right. Well, anyway, looks like you can buy those. I'm not here pimping for Dexcom overlay so just I'm reading the email. Anyway guys. Really exciting on the pod. all that great stuff with Omni pod five in different countries in the US but li Braidwood Dexcom G six with Dexcom G seven with an iPhone app. You heard the whole thing. Pretty exciting. Dexcom over here. Just sleeping on this like upgraded Bluetooth thing. Are you kidding me? That's the whole story. My opinion. I mean, the watch is great, but not for nothing. I don't think you can do share if you're direct to watch so for kids, I think it's a little one of those gives us one hand takes with the other situation. Understand why. But hold on. Enjoy unmatched freedom with direct AppleWatch better track your glucose patterns and I gotta click on something. Why don't we learn more with the FAQ? You guys read your emails? I don't think it's obvious this has been out for 15 days and I wasn't aware of this. What is direct to Apple Watch? Well my Apple Watch share glucose data with health apps like sugar mate are happy Bob. Happy Bob by the way, who named that? Direct to watch can't share real time glucose data to health app partners like sugar mate or happy Bob. You guys got sugar man sugar, rocks. Shout out to sugar mate. How do I connect to my g7 sensor directly with my Apple Watch. With direct to watch mode you can see your CGM information on your smartwatch even when you're not near your phone share available out here this is share available from my watch when indirect to watch mode. They added some extra words here so wouldn't just say no. It says share is not available on smartwatches so for those of you were like oh my god, my kid can finally see their bubble ball in their Apple Watch. Oh, not so fast. You're gonna lose Share if you do that. So again, you know, so close a lot of this other stuff that you care about, you should go look, do I need an iPhone to pair directly with my Apple Watch to set up the Dexcom g7 direct launch you must have an iPhone that is running iOS 17 Or later and an Apple Watch Series six or later running watch os 10 I'm sure that it made a lot of sense to you Apple watch people. I Babel. These on the streets. I'm out of here. Scotty out later, boom, boom. Should I read the mail more with you guys. We'll see if I get any feedback about this. And it says, Hey, this was lazy. Don't do this anymore. This is like, you know, I know. I know what you're thinking this is really influencer crap. You don't I mean, like they read the Internet to you to try to get views. Don't take me like that. On this one. I really thought this Omnipod thing was exciting. I wanted people to know about it. And then as I was literally getting office like I could tell them about Apple Watch direct Apple Watch. And then I opened the email to learn that rapid reconnect exists rapid reconnect, who named that? By the way? That's fantastic. And that great. And now with rapid reconnect 65% What did it say? 65%. I like this 65% thing who who timed that? I mean, they put a guy in charge of it was like a lady with a stopwatch and she's like, this was 65% faster. I'm sorry, I'm not laughing at Dexcom I really wrong. Alright, guys, a lot of good looks here. A lot of things happen. And I like it when technology goes forward. Very, very cool stuff. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast. There'll be music here and everything. I'll work that all out later.

A huge thank you to cozy earth.com for sponsoring this episode of the juice box. Go to cozy Earth right now. use the offer code juice box checkout save 30% off everything they make. They make dryer balls that makes sheets. They make towels. They make clothing. They make socks, actually. Oh goodness me. Here's what I forgot to tell you. If you do the little thing at the end. What is it like a survey? Yes. At cozy earth.com They're gonna send you socks. You want free socks? Right? You want free socks? Get in there cozy earth.com use the offer code juicebox checkout, take the survey. Get yourself some socks. Socks. They're so comfortable. Everything's so comfortable. I rubbed that towel this morning. I was like, oh goodness, gosh. Beautiful. If you were a loved one was just diagnosed with type one diabetes, and you're looking for some fresh perspective. The bold beginning series from the Juicebox Podcast is a terrific place to start. That series is with myself and Jenny Smith. Jenny is a CDC es a registered dietitian and a type one for over 35 years. And in the bowl beginning series Jenny and I are going to answer the questions that most people have after a type one diabetes diagnosis. The series begins at episode 698 In your podcast player, or you can go to juicebox podcast.com. And click on bold beginnings. If you're not already subscribed or following in your favorite audio app, please take the time now to do that. It really helps the show and get those automatic downloads set up so you never miss an episode. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.

#1233 After Dark: Foot Bath

Sarah is 26 years old and has type 1 diabetes. Discussions of physical and drug abuse, mental health battles and more.

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Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends and welcome to episode 1233 of the Juicebox Podcast

today's episode feature Sarah she's 26 years old was just diagnosed with type one diabetes in February of 2023. She suspects another autoimmune issue that presents like ra but she can't quite figure out what it is she's taking Plaquenil for it. We're going to discuss that her mental health issues, some physical abuse, and a lot more. But keep in mind with this episode, specifically, if you are an apple podcast subscriber, which means I think you pay like five bucks a month to get the show day early and you get the Pro Tip series in the bowl beginning series without ads. If you have that subscription model right now, you're gonna get this episode, unedited. And without advertisements, that means cursing and no ads. If you're subscribed right now on Apple podcast, everyone else is getting ads and beeps. But I mean, that's not really that bad for free. You know what I mean? Nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. When you place your first order for ag one with my link, you'll get five free travel packs and a free year supply of vitamin D. Drink ag one.com/juice box this episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by touched by type one touched by type one.org and find them on Facebook and Instagram touched by type one is an organization dedicated to helping people living with type one diabetes. And they have so many different programs that are doing just that check them out at touched by type one.org Today's episode is sponsored by Medtronic diabetes, a company that's bringing people together to redefine what it means to live with diabetes. Later in this episode, I'll be speaking with Jalen, he was diagnosed with type one diabetes at 14. He's 29. Now he's going to tell you a little bit about his story. To hear more stories with Medtronic champions. Go to Medtronic diabetes.com/juice box or search the hashtag Medtronic champion on your favorite social media platform. This show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries G voc hypo penne Find out more at G voc glucagon.com. Forward slash juicebox. My

Sarah 2:36
name is Sarah. I'm 26. I was diagnosed as type one in February and I'm here for whatever the new series is called.

Scott Benner 2:44
Who wait. So you just were diagnosed you 26 March April, May, June, July, August, September. It was in February so So eight months. If you count February, then you get an extra month when you're counting is difficult. So eight months ago type one Do you have any other autoimmune issues?

Sarah 3:04
I have an unknown rheumatological issue that I've suspected is autoimmune but they don't know what it is. How

Scott Benner 3:13
does it manifest itself? Since

Sarah 3:15
I was 13, it's mostly related to like I have a lot of flare ups around my cycle is managed right now with Plaquenil. But I mean, it was to the point when I was 23. I was basically bedridden and they were like I don't know all your tests come back clean. So it's mostly just like aching specifically around the joints. It presents like ra except no swelling.

Scott Benner 3:34
Presents like ra no swelling. Antibodies come back negative. And it only happens around your period. It's

Sarah 3:43
the worst man but I also like I click a lot like my joints are very loud and then they pop. Like when I am not consistently taking my medication because I tend to be forgetful. You can actually hear my joints get louder.

Scott Benner 3:58
The Plaquenil is what it's a is that an injectable?

Sarah 4:02
No, it's oral. It's hydroxychloroquine Oh, it's the blanket. It's something let's try this.

Scott Benner 4:11
I know that drug actually, how much has that helped you? Significantly,

Sarah 4:14
really significantly. When I was 23. I had worked up so bad because I had obviously was working still through all of this. But during COVID I quit my job because I was just so built up about everything. And during that time, it's like because I didn't have that daily reason to push myself to I have to go to work I have to do this. I deteriorated to somebody who needed help getting up out of bed very quickly

Scott Benner 4:44
immunosuppressive drug and anti parasitic. So oh, this this. This is the drug that like blew up in consciousness during COVID Because why? Because Oh, I know why? Because it's generic and it's cheap. When people said there were people who were saying this could maybe help with COVID. And then it turned into one of those, like, argument points during COVID. I remember this. Okay,

Sarah 5:08
that made researching it very difficult. And

Scott Benner 5:12
there were people like you using it for stuff like this. And then suddenly it was they were having trouble like sourcing it to is that this drug? That's the same one. Yeah. Okay, I remember this. I've actually thought about this for Arden at times. Does it have any side effects that are ill like things you wouldn't want to have happen? They

Sarah 5:31
say that it increases your sensitivity to sunlight, but I haven't noticed anything. And I very much love to bask so. And I have to get to yearly eye exams, because they say that has a chance for damage to your retinas. But other than that, but and I've been on it for three years. And I say that there's nothing but it's more of a like you're on it for 10 years, and then you have a 5% chance. I don't know the exact but it's relatively minor, but it's enough within it is a requirement to see a yearly ophthalmologist.

Scott Benner 6:04
So after 10 years, you have a 5% chance of having problems with your retinas.

Sarah 6:09
I think it's I think it's lower than that. I'm just making up numbers. Oh,

Scott Benner 6:12
well, yeah, I mean, we should definitely do that. We'll just make up numbers. I made them up about your age, and how long ago February was and everything, so we're fine. What brings you on the podcast? Like when when you said, I'll come on, what did you think you would talk about?

Sarah 6:30
I hear you speak a lot when I listened to particularly to the after dark episodes. And when you You seem interested in things about mental health. And that's something that I have a lot of experience with. And I haven't heard anybody talk about, I guess, when people talk about their mental health issues, they didn't have a core reason of like, oh, this happened. And I feel this way or like a core source of their problems. And I haven't heard anybody expressed the way that I have, I think you had one guest very briefly mentioned her negative connotations towards religion, but it was very sparse.

Scott Benner 7:04
Okay, let's like dig in a little bit. Do you have mental health struggles?

Sarah 7:08
Oh, definitely.

Scott Benner 7:09
Like, of course I do. When did they begin? What do they look like? The

Sarah 7:15
best way I could word it is I remember wanting to kill myself since I was in elementary school. So forever, basically,

Scott Benner 7:22
what does that feel like? How real is that feeling like you make plans to kill yourself, or you just have these feelings of like, I wish I wasn't alive.

Sarah 7:30
It waves. So sometimes like as of right now, I'm pretty decent. And if you catch me, like on a bad day, or whatever, it's like the other day, we were, I was making coffee. And I have one of the old style coffee pots, just the regular pour over. And there had been a clog or something and the grounds spilled up and backed up into the water tank. And I'm just, I just immediately started going, I have to do everything in this house. And that's just another thing I need to do. And I keep messing everything up and in blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and on and on and on and on. And that always just spirals into, well, this wouldn't happen if you weren't still here. Like you're not supposed to be. Oh,

Scott Benner 8:09
wow. And how fast is that happened from like, the odd malfunction of the coffee pot that has nothing to do with you, too. We should find a verge to jump off of like, what's the is it like minutes or days? 80 seconds? Okay, then, but then do you then think I'm gonna go do it? Do you ever make a plan?

Sarah 8:30
Nonetheless, few years now, but I think the only reason I never had a honest to god attempt is because I was so convinced that I was going to screw it up. And I would end up more permanently damaged and worse off than when I started. So

Scott Benner 8:45
when you were younger, What stopped you from attempting suicide was the idea that you would screw that up like you've screwed up the coffee pot? Pretty much. Oh my gosh. Okay. And this stems from what like, do history of mental illness in your family. People are screaming and yelling at you. You've been abused anything like that? Yes,

Sarah 9:02
yes. And depending on your definition of abuse, I was never really hit. But I was in very dangerous situations. I use the word neglect more often. Your

Scott Benner 9:12
whole life neglected. Pretty much. And what does that mean? That means you're on your own to eat to go to school to clean yourself. Nobody involve themselves with you.

Sarah 9:23
Yeah. When my mother and father were still together, that was they were both drug addicts. It was very physically abusive, very dangerous. And we were split apart by foster care. And I went with my grandparents on my mother's side. And they are also drug addicts who also had a very physically abusive household, which was not conducive for a child. And then when my mother got out of prison, I got back with her and her whoever she was dating at the time, and basically from then on out, I was I think I was in third grade, maybe at this point and it was just kind of like, okay, you have to learn to be independent now fully. Oh my gosh, I always had a roof and there was almost always food. But that was

Scott Benner 10:11
like God. Do you have brothers and sisters? Five? Wow. Did they all get I

Sarah 10:19
was essentially raised as a single child after that because one went to his grandparents to went into foster care. And one went to another set of grandparents and one went to the Father. So we all went different directions. Did your

Scott Benner 10:34
mom have five kids with five different men?

Sarah 10:36
Two of them are not hers. So they're all half siblings. Oh,

Scott Benner 10:40
wait, wait. So there were three kids that were hers and two kids. She found somewhere or British?

Sarah 10:46
Were from my father's previous relationship. From

Scott Benner 10:50
you. I gotcha. Okay, so she had kids with other guys met your dad got pregnant. He brought kids with him. I got it. How old were they? When you were being moved to your grandmother's house? Do you think?

Sarah 11:03
Probably about 12 and 13. You were that old? But

Scott Benner 11:07
how old? Were your parents? Were they young parents? I

Sarah 11:09
was like four they were like probably early 20s. My mother had three children by 21. So and I was the youngest. So I think I was had right before she was 30

Scott Benner 11:23
and she was she had addiction issues.

Sarah 11:26
She still does. Okay.

Scott Benner 11:29
Wow. And then you get to the grandparents house. They're the same as your mom basically. Was there any moment when you left your mom and went to your grandparents you thought this is going to be better and then you got there and you're like oh no same place. If you take insulin or sulfonylureas you are at risk for your blood sugar going too low. You need a safety net when it matters most. Be ready with G voc hypo pen. My daughter carries G voc hypo pen everywhere she goes because it's a ready to use rescue pen for treating very low blood sugar and people with diabetes ages two and above that I trust. Low blood sugar emergencies can happen unexpectedly and they demand quick action. Luckily G vo Capo pen can be administered in two simple steps even by yourself in certain situations. Show those around you where you store G vo Capo pen and how do you use it? They need to know how to use Chivo Capo pen before an emergency situation happens. Learn more about why G vo Capo pen is in Ardens diabetes toolkit at G voc glucagon.com/juicebox. G voc shouldn't be used if you have a tumor in the gland on the top of your kidneys caught a pheochromocytoma. Or if you have a tumor in your pancreas called an insulinoma. Visit G voc glucagon.com/risk For safety information.

Sarah 12:55
Oh no. We have visited my grandparents and my grandmother was just horrific. He was screaming and like. So my grandfather while he also was still a drug addict, he worked and he did what he could. So I think the reason that I was cared for the way that I was in that household at the time was because of him. But he worked so much to try to support because he was the only one in the house with a job and takes a lot of money to buy that many people drugs. Yeah, drugs are expensive. So he lay down on the couch for a two hour nap before he went to go drive cabs. And she'd be screaming at him saying you're such a sorry, son of a bitch blah, blah, blah, everything like that. And it was just nothing but vitriol coming from that woman's mouth, always screaming. And

Scott Benner 13:38
so you as a child, you absorb all this. That's how you feel about yourself.

Sarah 13:42
I think it was also a lot of it was she was a very religious woman.

Scott Benner 13:47
It doesn't sound like it, but go ahead.

Sarah 13:50
I know. Southern Baptists will do that to you.

Scott Benner 13:55
Screaming at that guy doing what are we talking about? Heroin, meth. What do we do?

Sarah 14:00
I think she was mostly doing pills. My grandfather, I think he was also mostly doing pills and coke. And then my aunt was living there and whatever boyfriend she at the time and she switched around between crack and whatever she could get. And so well that they were mostly doing OPERS not downers. So while

Scott Benner 14:15
we're doing pills and crack and whatever else we can find some cocaine and screaming and yelling each other and abusing everybody. We're very religious going to church. We're very religious people.

Sarah 14:25
We are we cannot listen to any sort of metal music because I don't like Satan into the home. We cannot watch Harry Potter because that's the witchcraft and that's the devil's work. We cannot associate with certain acts of people whether that be based on sexuality or race. Definitely opinions

Scott Benner 14:44
when you when you strip all that away from them. What's the core issue? How did they get to where they are?

Sarah 14:50
It's definitely in my perception of it is always having to be the victim in a situation.

Scott Benner 14:59
Okay, Do you think looking back at them and thinking about how you feel about yourself? Is it possible this is very generational?

Sarah 15:08
Oh, definitely I watched it, I watched my great grandmother have to be the victim, which followed the grandmother when my mother and then my sister is very much following in the same footpath. And I tried very hard not to do the same.

Scott Benner 15:20
By the way, foot bath is such an interesting illustration with words, because your feet are dirty, and then the bath gets dirty, and then everybody goes through it. I never heard that before. But I love that. I'll be using that at some point in my life. Thank you. I'm trying to ask a question. Isn't it funny? I'm going to ask a question, I think is insulting but I mean, after the story, like what can I say that you know, anyway?

Sarah 15:44
I'm pretty sure you won't hurt my feelings. Are they?

Scott Benner 15:46
Are they particularly smart people? Dumb think?

Sarah 15:51
I think they used to be okay intelligent. But I think the just years and years of drum usage has. My mother was never the brightest person. But I remember clearly the one time I it really clicked with me that oh, this is changing who she is. Sometime when I was in high school. She asked me how to spell house. Oh, I was like, oh, no, this is this is really affecting.

Scott Benner 16:18
You're in trouble. I'm in trouble. We're all in trouble. Yeah. Okay, I'm gonna just call me to get my to do list out and cross off all the jobs that I was hoping to have one day, I don't think I'm gonna make it to. If the lady supporting me is like house, what are all the letters in that? Give them to me in order, please? I think you're like, Oh, I I don't think I'm going to MIT anymore. What were your goals? Like? Did you have goals as a child? Or did this fall on you so quickly, that you kind of couldn't even dream like that? I

Sarah 16:50
never had any expectations for myself. I used to joke in high school that you would find me on the corner in my box. And that's if I made it that far. If the real estate would let me get a box in that neighborhood.

Scott Benner 17:03
I had the downpayment on the box, but I couldn't secure the water rights. I don't want to ask you where you lived. But is this common where you grew up?

Sarah 17:11
I'm fine, saying that I'm in the south. But in the area that I live in is very much you go two blocks down and you see people very comfortable. And then the other two blocks, you see people fighting for Section eight. Okay,

Scott Benner 17:26
I see. But like the kids you grew up with? Were they all like, I hope I can get a nice, I want one of those heavy duty moving boxes, the ones that are real thick, like was it? Was that like very common? Or do you think it was not particularly

Sarah 17:38
I was in like, I don't know what term they use. There's the type of schooling that you'd have to test into, like, you have to have a certain qualifying IQ, it's still a public school, and it gets like public funding, but you have to qualify to get in. So I was very much the odd duck out because nobody in there, with the exception of maybe one or two other kids was under middle class,

Scott Benner 18:00
I say, you were a target. As far as that as well, meaning you didn't fit into that scenario, either. And you didn't see. And so it feels like more of a failure when everyone around you is not failing or having these problems. I was

Sarah 18:12
never really ashamed of it in the sense that I ever thought of myself as a failure. It was more of what the time when I was a kid, I very much had the chip on my shoulder of look at how much I'm able to overcome. And I was very much lacking in empathy, probably because I needed to be at the time. And I'd hear the people around me and the biggest challenge that ever gone through is the loss of a pet or their parents getting divorced. And I'm like, hey, my grandfather's in a coma. And he's been on a ventilator for three years. And I'm being taken care of by two drug addicts, and I'm happy if there is something to eat in the house. So I don't, I don't really think that mommy not loving daddy anymore. Not that big of a deal. Now I understand, you know, that is something very difficult that they weren't dealing with. And that was something important to them at the time. And I'm sure, but at the time, I didn't have the sympathy for it, because it seemed like nothing. And

Scott Benner 19:14
maybe that's actually just at the level of things people aren't meant to deal with in a modern society. Like, you don't need to be, like having the experience of watching your grandmother crush up on oxy. It's not exactly, you know, like something people are supposed to live through. You know, and sure, in the beginning, you tell yourself that stuff like man, I can overcome anything. But that's really that's those are the words of somebody who's being like, oppressed by life every five seconds. Because if you don't do that, then you're gonna you feel like it's just gonna crush you. And then you know, if you don't get back up, you're dead and that whole thing happens. Did you mean it? Or was it just something you were saying? Like I'm saying like, was it just something you said to yourself to keep yourself going?

Sarah 19:57
I think I really did take pride in it. Well But I think it was because I didn't have anything else I could take pride in. Okay,

Scott Benner 20:04
no, that makes sense. Do you think if I lift you up out of your bassinet and take you somewhere where none of this is happening? Do you think you're a person who thinks about ending their life and feels terrible about the coffee grinds and everything else?

Sarah 20:18
I think it wouldn't be to the severity that I have. So I've tried different forms of therapy. And I'm better than I was, but I don't think I'm the best judge of my own character, because I think about who I was five years ago, and I said, Oh, I'm better than I was five years before. And each and every time I look back, I'm like, Oh, I was just the worst place of my life. So I don't think in the moment I'm ever good at judging how I'm doing

Scott Benner 20:46
because you're climbing out of such a deep hole. Yeah, you're like, Oh, my God, I've gone so far. But you're still in the hole.

Sarah 20:51
When I was in therapy, the first time at 19. I remember speaking to my therapist, and she was, I feel bad for her looking back because she was a recent grad. And she'd only had a handful of clients. And he probably wasn't prepared for somebody who'd had long term issues. She was doing college students, she's probably trying to deal with people having anxiety over exams, and she didn't know what to do with me. But I remember telling her Oh, I was so much worse off a couple years back. But at the time, I was an insomniac, I had been on three different medications that were not helping me. I was going through an eating disorder, and I was an alcoholic. So I don't think I was doing better. I think I was doing worse. But I was I thought I was doing better.

Scott Benner 21:34
So in your life, you've had an eating disorder. You drank too much. Is that correct? Did you do any drugs? No,

Sarah 21:42
because I knew I would like film.

Scott Benner 21:47
But you drank a lot? Oh, yeah. No,

Sarah 21:49
I would definitely consider myself an alcoholic for I'd say maybe four or five years.

Scott Benner 21:54
What does that look like drinking every day? drinking every

Sarah 21:57
day. But in the sense of well, I'm better than other alcoholics because I only drink after work.

Scott Benner 22:03
I go, Oh, well. Yeah. Well, you you got that good learning from your grandfather who did go to drive the the cab.

Sarah 22:12
Right? It doesn't matter if you can still hold the job.

Scott Benner 22:15
Yeah, so if I have a job, I'm not, I'm not a mess. Or

Sarah 22:19
you're you're doing well enough. I know that there's issues like I knew that I wasn't happier doing well. But I was doing better than other people in comparison. Because I was comparing myself to people who were doing very poorly. There

Scott Benner 22:35
might be an episode about comparison and blame there is with me and Erica, where we talk we talk about there's sometimes value in comparing yourself, you can actually bolster yourself through it. But when you start saying, I'm doing better than the, you know, man with no legs, who's the alcoholic and you're like a drug addict. And he lives in a sewer like you know, I'm doing better than him. When you do that you're lowering the bar so far, you're hurting yourself. But there's, there are moments where you can actually make yourself kind of like, feel better about things. But it's not a healthy way to do it a lot, but it's not terrible. Once in a while. It's interesting. Like how that that kind of can be. Wow, you were you drank between what ages

Sarah 23:18
19 to 24.

Scott Benner 23:21
It's a little early for all that stayed away from drugs because you saw what it did other people thought you would fall too far down a hole if you did that. Absolutely. I

Sarah 23:31
still believe that.

Scott Benner 23:32
Really? Do you do anything you smoke weed or anything like that?

Sarah 23:35
I never really did just because I've always been worried this is I've always been worried about getting popped on a drug test and losing my job. A lot about whatever job I ever had. Even if I was only making $8 an hour, I was like, Oh, I don't want to lose my job.

Scott Benner 23:49
What if McDonald's starts giving us piss tests? I'm out. They might you never know. They might get real serious about the french fries one day and then I'm out work but that's how important the work part of it is to you. This episode is sponsored by Medtronic diabetes, Medtronic diabetes.com/juice box. And now we're going to hear from Medtronic champion. Jalen.

Speaker 1 24:12
I was going straight into high school. So it was a summer getting into high school was that particularly difficult and imaginable? You know, I missed my entire summer. So I went I was going to a brand new school. I was around a bunch of new people that I had not been going to school with. So it was hard trying to balance that while also explaining to people what type one diabetes was. My hometown did not have an endocrinologist. So I was traveling over an hour to the nearest endocrinologist for children. So you know, I outside of that I didn't have any type of support in my hometown. Did

Scott Benner 24:45
you try to explain to people or did you find it easier just to stay private?

Speaker 1 24:50
I honestly I just held back I didn't really like talking about it. It was just it felt like it was just an repeating record where I was saying things and people weren't understanding it. it. And I also was still in the process of learning it. So I just kept it to myself didn't really talk about it.

Scott Benner 25:05
Did you eventually find people in real life that you could confide in. I

Speaker 1 25:09
never really got the experience until after getting to college. And then once I graduated college, it's all I see, you know, you can easily search Medtronic champions, you see people that pop up, and you're like, wow, look at all this content. And I think that's something that motivates me started embracing more, you know, how I'm able to type one diabetes, Medtronic

Scott Benner 25:30
diabetes.com/juice box to hear more stories from the Medtronic champion community.

Sarah 25:39
In the work is important just because of the money. I love how you speak about growing up with poverty and generational poverty. Because when you speak about it, I don't hear you being ashamed of it. Or sometimes I hear people say, Well, we weren't well off. And then you're like, oh, no, we were broke. We were dirt poor. And that's more of the way that I look at it. I remember getting my neighbor $20 Because our water had been shut off for a month, and they asked if we could shower at her house for the week, for

Scott Benner 26:06
20. That's not a bad deal at all. Seriously, it's like what is that like less than $2 a day, I can afford that? Well, it

Sarah 26:13
was the same thing when her power was out, she'd run an extension cord over to our house, we just tried that $20 back and forth, there

Scott Benner 26:19
was an entire winter where I would get up in the morning and take this little electric heater and drag an extension cord out of my house put the electric heater on the dashboard of my vehicle to try to melt the windshield enough that I could drive to my job before it would freeze over again, because the truck didn't have any heat in it. So I would go out there and like three jackets bundled up, I was colder driving to work than I was when I got to work. And I and I used it. So I would like I remember so like I grabbed the heater slammed the door, run the heater back in the house, throw it through the door, run back jump in the truck and drive away because I had a towel with me. And I would keep taking the condensation off the windshield because it would freeze up if I didn't. And that seemed like a fix. To me. It was like I was like this will work. Because we already had the extension cord and the heater.

Sarah 27:10
I very much understand we had a television that you can only change the channel if you had a pair of pliers. But you also needed the pair of pliers to operate the shower. So but we only had one pair of pliers. So you if somebody was taking a shower and you couldn't watch, take whatever channel it was on. That's what you were watching. You

Scott Benner 27:30
had a moment in your life where you were like I have to go get the the TV pliers so I can take a shower. Yes. Wow. Yeah, that pretty much should sum it up for anybody listening who doesn't understand what it means when you say I've never had any money? Oh, that's absolutely fascinating. Yeah, oh, you're very nice to share that. Okay. So none of that talks about the religious thing. So you think that a lot of your problems stem from the religion that you were around? It's

Sarah 27:58
not in the sense of, I am scared, I'm gonna go to hell or anything like that. And I'm not religious at this point. It's the religion was boiled down to morality. And it was, this is good. This is bad. And everything was good or bad. It was very black and white. And that morality just drilled into me very heavily. And if I was to like, summarize, what is the core of my being better? Like the entanglement of my issues, if you were to try to get to the middle of the rubber band ball, that little ball in the middle is I think I am a morally bad person, even with no evidence

Scott Benner 28:34
towards it, because you enjoyed the Harry Potter films? No, I

Sarah 28:39
don't know where the original idea stemmed from, I guess just I have an assumption. I think when I was small, it was like, all of these bad things are happening. Bad things happen to bad people as I thought, therefore, I must be bad. And I think I just internalize that. Yes,

Scott Benner 28:58
that self flagellation thing like your grandmother is thinking, if I follow the word of God, he'll save me. And because I'm not being saved, this is a reflection on who I am. Because I'm not worthy of that saving. Is that about it? I

Sarah 29:16
can't speak too much on her mindset. Because it was confusing, even to me, even to this day. I don't quite know. She she calls me sometimes and says, she leaves voicemails and I blocked her like three or four times. I don't want to talk to her. I think I've made it abundantly clear, but she just keeps finding new ways to try to contact me and she'll leave me voicemails and say, I don't understand why you don't want to speak to me. Like, you know,

Scott Benner 29:40
well as they get as people get older though. Their brains go a little mushy. How old is she? Is she in her? 70s yet? Yeah, she's in her 70s Yeah, trust me, they the front the frontal lobe begins to shrink with age. And a lot of that what I'll call piss and vinegar kind of goes away a little bit, and then they start misremember. bring things are remembering things kinder than they were. And then all of a sudden, it's like, I don't understand, like, why are we even talking about this, because they really don't remember, sometimes I

Sarah 30:08
feel like it's more of a learned behavior. Because I see the exact same thing with my mother and my sister and my mother's in her early 50s, my sister is in her early 30s. And I see them do the exact same thing. We'll

Scott Benner 30:20
pretend none of this happen. And let's start again. But if you if you started over again, with them, you'd be back in this in the footpath pretty quickly, right? It's

Sarah 30:28
very difficult. I used to have anger issues. And my mother and I would just be screaming at each other every time we wouldn't speak to each other for three weeks. And then if we intersected even for 45 seconds would be a screaming match.

Scott Benner 30:45
Do you ever remember what you were yelling about? Or was it nonsense?

Sarah 30:49
It was It was nothing. So it would be I'd be in my room and the door would be closed. And she would start screaming about Why is the door closed? What are you doing there? Why are you trying to hide for me? And then it just snowballed into, like I had a habit of wearing jackets. Because I was a teenager with an eating disorder and insecure about my body. I wore oversized clothing because I didn't want to show it and she would say, why are you doing this blah, blah, blah. And she is she would always assume that I was hiding something bigger than it really was. Reality.

Scott Benner 31:20
So to me, if I if I got your mom and your grandmother together, like on Family Feud or something like that, and we did like morality, Family Feud, and I said to them, pills, or Harry Potter, what's the bad thing? They'd go Harry Potter?

Sarah 31:33
Probably? My grandmother, definitely. My mother has skewed further from religion and more towards conspiracy. She is an avid follower of Alex Jones. Now, do tell.

Scott Benner 31:45
So how does the conspiracy support her problem? Like good? You don't I mean, like, because your grandmother's like using the religion, idea to support her ideas? How does the conspiracy support your mom's ideas?

Sarah 32:00
Very much victim, everything's out to get me there's always a plan. There's always something some sort of a cabal, and then when I say hey, maybe the things that you are believing in are problematic and causing you problems. And maybe it has nothing to do with the government controlling the weather, or the President being replaced. Or now she's really big into UFOs, and fairies and Ethereal Beings. And I don't even know what the point of those ones are. She just thinks that there are things around her.

Scott Benner 32:30
Tell me Did your mom at some point believe there were Jewish space lasers.

Sarah 32:34
She never said the word Jewish, but it was very heavily implied.

Scott Benner 32:41
So like that level, very

Sarah 32:43
much he believes if you get somebody who can speak fast enough and energetically enough, I believe that except for anything that's sensible.

Scott Benner 32:52
I had this conversation with somebody very, very recently. And we were talking about, you know, the paths that people take. And at some point, this person said, always, the problem is the internet. I said, I need to stop you. I said, I do a lot of good with the Internet. And I don't think it's the internet. I think it's the intention of the person who uses the tool. And he's like, Well, what do you mean? I said, Well, I, you know, I'm like, I do a thing. It's weird. She was talking to somebody who didn't really know when, like, a social setting. And I said, I have a podcast that helps a lot of people. And I have a Facebook group helps a lot of people. My intention was for it to help people. And so because that's my intention, it's my perspective. It's where I come from. That's the thing I've made happen. And I use the internet as a tool to accomplish that. I said, but I'm gonna have to tell you, I said, I know my ability to talk to people. And if I wanted to be and I use the example, I said, if I wanted to be like a televangelist, I'd be so good at it. I was like I said, I'd be so good at it. If I if I had the heart to do it that way. I said, My heart doesn't tell me to do that. And I said, but if it did, if I had a dark heart, I could absolutely scare the crap out of you take your money from you and leave you thanking me. It's a shame but that's what happens sometimes when people use those ideas to take advantage of other people in those situations. And then look at the trickle down effect it has all the way to you. It's fascinating really.

Sarah 34:19
I definitely feel that when it comes to just the the amount of charisma that those people have. We wouldn't have money to put gas in the car. But there was a check the 700 Club on the dining room table. No

Scott Benner 34:30
kidding. Yeah, no, I could get your I could have got your mom and grandma to give me money, no trouble if, if, by the way inside, I was like, Hey, I'm gonna screw these people over and find a way to take their money, use their insecurities to take their money from them. I don't even like even with the podcast. It sounds probably mostly to people, but I take the advertising so you guys don't have to pay for the podcast. Like that's my goal. Really? And even like where this episode gets funny You came when you're like, I'm gonna curse a lot. 33 minutes in, no one has said a bad word. I think I said, No one. No one's cursed, like a warm setting up right now putting like the management stuff without ads on it behind a paywall. So that if at one point in the future, I lose my advertising for any reason, this good information about helping people with their diabetes can kind of continue to exist. But I wouldn't want you to pay for it. And I've said this a couple of times on here. But I had a company come to me a number of years ago now. And they were like, how many downloads Do you have? And I told them, and they said, We can monetize that. Imagine, I think the woman said on the phone call, imagine if you got 50 cents for every one of those downloads. And at that point, she was talking to me, I had like 4 million downloads, and I was like, I would have $2 million. And she goes, yes. And I'm like, that doesn't sound right. And she's like, No, no, and she's really selling like, you know, but of course, they get a piece of it, like she's trying to, what really happens is is that company sees me having some success. And they're like, how can we take a percentage of that person's success from them. And I had the wherewithal to say, if I start charging for downloads, I wouldn't have 4 million because there'd be people who would look at an episode and go, I don't care enough about that to pay 50 cents for it. And, and she's like, I know, you're making a big mistake. And I have to tell you, Sarah, sitting here today, with 15 million downloads total. And I think I got six and a half this year, there is that part of you that goes along? Could I have gotten 20 cents for each one of them, like like, that would have still been an insane amount of money. And then I think, doesn't matter, because it eliminates people from getting to the information. Like like, it doesn't matter if it's 20 cents, or $20. For what it is, there's gonna be somebody at that point that goes, I can't afford that, or I'm not paying that, or whatever. And then the way I think of it is, somewhere along the line, some young person like you who just was diagnosed, or some lady who was trying to help her kid or whatever, doesn't find the information, and they live a whole life, you know, tormented by their diabetes unnecessarily. And, and I don't have the heart for that. Like, I really don't, but a lot of people do. And it's it's not it's not everybody, but it's enough people to find people like your mom and dad and, and grandmother and grandfather and take advantage of them and then leave you in the situation you're in. So I don't know, it's upsetting to me. I think it's probably more upsetting to me. Because I could do it. Like I could, I could have said yes to that company. And I probably would have eliminated 50% of my downloads, and I still would have had a million I still would have, you know, I still would have made that money that year. And so I just it's not for me, the money would be I'd like to say if somebody out there is rich, and they're just like, oh my god, what a lovely thing. I'll just give Scott a million dollars, I happily take it just send it right over. But but for the moment, like I just, I don't I can't imagine that. And I don't know what would have to happen to me. For too dark in my heart enough to just go I don't care about these people. Let me try to like cash grab this. You know, it's it's it's really sad. Honestly, I feel bad for you.

Sarah 38:01
I think part of the reason that you feel that way is because you don't view things as transactional, like I have done enough good. Therefore, I am entitled to my own good.

Scott Benner 38:12
Yeah, I haven't had that thought ever. I will be like, Oh, wow, I had like a day where I got a lot of notes today. I'm like, happy for those people. But I don't sit and think I did that. Like I have to consciously step back. It is kind of an important thing. When you do like what I do, like, there's times I do have to step back and say my actions led to this good thing for this person. And you have to kind of let yourself feel it for a little bit, but you can't bask in it and then expect to be paid for it. Like that's, that would be strange to me. So when you grew up with the the this religious talk that made you feel like you're a bad person. So is that how you feel today, you're you're 26 years old, you know, you're a good person, but you can't believe it, or you actually believe you're a bad person. It

Sarah 39:01
is my first inclination to believe that I'm a bad person. So I'm hypersensitive about things. It's both emotionally and how I am perceived by people that I care about and how people act towards me. But it's only extended towards people who I choose to interact with my wife. It's not like, oh, I bumped into a stranger who probably thinks I'm horrible. It doesn't extend that far. It's I set something down too hard. And my partners in the room, maybe he thinks I'm mad at him. I didn't intend to do that. Why did I do that? I wasn't being careful enough. Now he thinks that he did something wrong. I don't want him to feel that way. Why did I do that? I'm doing

Scott Benner 39:38
it again. And in the meantime, none of that's actually happening. None of

Sarah 39:42
that has happened at all, or it'll go vice versa. He'll say, Hey, can you hand that to me? But I perceived the tone in that voice. And so I go, Oh, no, what did I do? What happened? What went wrong? What did I do again?

Scott Benner 39:56
And it comes back to you like you even if you perceived his tone is like Of course, you wouldn't think what's his problem, you'd think, what did I do wrong? Exactly.

Sarah 40:05
And it could be consulting, completely unrelated to me. So he could come home and say, I have a very bad day at work. My boss was rude. And it was horrible. And I'd say, Why am I not better? Why can't I make him feel better?

Scott Benner 40:21
Yeah, that's a lot. Jesus, sir. And you're not in therapy at the moment?

Sarah 40:26
No, my last therapist, I was at the time I was relapsing with both drinking and self harm. And I was, from my perspective, I thought I was developing compulsions, because I have had two houses burned down. And I gotten to where I was shutting the breakers off when I left the house, because I was so worried about another electrical fire. And I, one day had gotten probably 20 minutes down the road, I was on the way to work. And I couldn't remember, if I shut my stove off. I hadn't cooked in like three days, but I couldn't remember if I checked my stove off. So I had to drive all the way back to go check that so of course it was. And when I told my therapist this, she wanted to talk about my hygiene habits and make sure that I have a consistent dental routine. And that wasn't my priority at the moment. And that was one of the best therapists like find so

Scott Benner 41:27
So you're telling me that if you just would have gotten your teeth cleaned every six months that your stove definitely would have been off?

Sarah 41:32
Exactly.

Scott Benner 41:36
There you go. I am I fault. Listen, no matter what walk of life you're in, whether it's like literally people making the fries at McDonald's, or a therapist, or you know, anybody along the way, you're gonna get varying levels of, you know, proficiency out of out of people or doing a job. And but I think talk therapy in general, just getting things out, is at a, at the basis, at the basic level, it's at least valuable just to talk to somebody, you're going to feel better after you and I talk today, like, I'm going to feel better when it's over the people listen are going to feel better after it's over. It doesn't, it doesn't maybe move the needle enough and change things. But if you do it often enough, it can it can act as like, like you're letting the steam out of the pot a little bit, at the very least. But yeah, finding someone that that's actually thoughtful can see big picture and help you is is not easy. It really is

Sarah 42:35
especially I'm on Medicaid. And there's very limited amounts of I mean, to get my AMI pot, I had to contact a state senator and get the state board involved. But so finding even just a regular therapist who can accept Medicaid is very

Scott Benner 42:52
difficult find moved you like, I don't know where you are, it doesn't matter to me. If I picked you up and put you in a cabin in Wyoming that was a couple of miles from town. And you could have a simple job that paid a reasonable rate and it took care of all your bills, and you had a little money leftover and you could start over again. Would that help you? Or would you just walk into the little town somebody would say something and you'd start you'd start like a problem all over again there.

Sarah 43:22
I think it would definitely follow me because I've that he's internalized so much. I mean, even when I tried to distance myself from it, I'm once again not the best judge, I think I'm doing better than I was before. I'm not having full on breakdowns. But one thing that I learned at least because there's no telling how long I was undiagnosed, but when I'm doing the the ping pong and bouncing around, it's like, like other worldly mood swings, like anything. I remember I was walking home with my partner, and I just been crying for three straight hours and we're walking. And I just keep saying, Can I be done being upset yet? I'd like to be done being upset yet, but I'm doing the hiccuping sobs and everything and it just feels outside of you. Okay,

Scott Benner 44:19
in that moment, you know, you're not upset anymore.

Sarah 44:22
Yes.

Scott Benner 44:25
You know, you're not upset. You consciously want to stop. Can't stop it happening. What ended up bringing it to an end? Do you just exhausted? Yes. You

Sarah 44:35
just have to wait it out. And it's like that there are times where I'll get I will just suddenly feel a drop in my chest like this. You know that sound effect when they turn the sound down? Because like Nero, the emotional equivalent of that. I'll just feel that sink into my chest and then like suddenly I can't talk.

Scott Benner 44:52
Interesting. It's just kind of then you're exhausted. It's over and just can't do it anymore.

Sarah 44:58
Sometimes it's 30 40 minutes, sometimes it's the whole day.

Scott Benner 45:03
And what's the feedback from your partner? Oh, no,

Sarah 45:06
she's having big feelings.

Scott Benner 45:09
Does your partner have issues as well?

Sarah 45:12
He had a brief stint of major depression, but it's to the extent of it. He's he tries to be as understanding as he can. And he knows that there are certain things that he will never fully get, and he listens. But he doesn't know what support needs to be offered. And I don't know what support I need, because nothing has helped. Except time. Yeah.

Scott Benner 45:35
So if I asked you, like, unlike some people's problems, if I said, Look, I give you a magic wand, like what fixes this? Somebody people might be like, Oh, if I made three more dollars now or if I had this, but you you don't even know what would help you. Right, other than just for the feelings to go away?

Sarah 45:49
Well, I've been looking into ketamine therapy. Okay. I don't know if that would help.

Scott Benner 45:53
Well, do you think you're depressed? It comes and goes

Sarah 45:58
definitely, though. I think my last diagnosis was persistent depressive disorder.

Scott Benner 46:03
So you're talking about looking into what's become pretty popular, I guess in Zeitgeist now. So the idea of like, almost resetting yourself with either like low dose mushrooms like psilocybin or ketamine, they're talking a lot about those things. There's some pretty good research going on at Johns Hopkins about it, I think, in a controlled, like, I don't mean, like getting a bag of mushrooms from a guy. I'm telling you, like in a controlled environment that I think is also supported with therapy immediately afterwards, that people are finding, like their trauma, which I mean, obviously, yours is growing up the way you did, from like soldiers to people who grew up with your situations to people who have had like, I don't know, like horrible accidents, like they're able to, it seems like they're having some success, I should say, resetting people, for the lack of a better term. Is that what you've heard, I

Sarah 46:57
haven't heard it in the terms of a reset and more of it helps. Like, if your feelings are very sharp, it helps round the edges. And then they'll sharpen over time, and you have to go file down again. I gotcha. But I because I've done DBT and CBT. And those are very behavioral focused. And I am, at one point in my life, I did need coping mechanisms for focusing on my behaviors, because I've you know, not sleeping, alcohol abuse, self harm, eating disorders, those are not the coping mechanisms. So I very much need behavioral intervention at that time. But as of now, my behavior is pretty, you know, societally acceptable, I'm not doing anything to hurt myself in that sense. Now, I need emotional intervention. And I need to stop the pattern of Well, why is it that when I dropped cup on the floor, and the handle breaks off, my first thought is, Wow, what a sec. That there's no, it's no A to B to B to B, it's I dropped the cup. And, oh, I should just die instantly. I don't know how you intervene in that when it's instantaneous. Yeah. And I haven't found many resources. So far. I'm still looking for emotional train of thought intervention, like how do you out train a gut instinct?

Scott Benner 48:26
Can you trace that back to anything in your life? Like, is there a certain moment or thing that happened to you over and over again, perhaps that, that leads that feeling to pop out like that? People just blaming you constantly for things?

Sarah 48:42
I don't think I was blamed. I think very much it was seeing the abuse from my father, like towards my mother. And it was, she was always being blamed. And I think because I was in that situation, and I felt that anger was also being projected towards me just by way of being there. That I also felt that I was being blamed. I gotcha. Even though nobody ever laid a hand on me. Right?

Scott Benner 49:10
I mean, you love your mom. No, no, when did that stop?

Sarah 49:14
I can't remember ever loving her. Okay, this is a woman who told me that I should kill myself and that I would be pretty if I didn't have that tie around my middle. So she denied me medical care when I was sick and then later said that I was making up for

Scott Benner 49:30
attach it. So you so I look, I've seen a picture of you before. Are you heavy?

Sarah 49:36
I'm about 140 right now.

Scott Benner 49:38
I mean, what I'm what I'm trying to get as I don't actually care what your body looks like I'm what I'm trying to get at is was she making something up about your physical appearance so that you were like, wow, that's like so that it was like gaslighting you almost or was it at least? Did you have a couple pounds and she was like going after you for like I'm trying to figure out what her tactic was.

Sarah 49:58
I definitely He had a couple of pounds, at least from my perspective, but I also have 10 years of eating disorder on me. So I don't know if my perception is reliable on that. But

Scott Benner 50:09
so so she knows you have an eating disorder when she's talking to you about your body like that.

Sarah 50:13
She doesn't care. Okay. And then everything is about her. So like when I was when I was in DKA, in the hospital, I didn't call her I didn't tell her when my house burned down. I didn't call her I didn't tell her. But when she found out, I got a call. And it was her being so upset. And her feelings being so hurt. And I was like, Man, this is this is not about you. I don't

Scott Benner 50:40
have a house. Yeah, I don't want to hear about your problems. Have you ever tried EMDR, the rapid eye movement therapy. When

Sarah 50:47
I've looked into it, it feels it feels more akin to PTSD and people with like, vivid flashbacks. So like, if I got screened that and I immediately thought of, Oh, I feel exactly like when my father screamed at me or when my grandmother was screaming, and I'm in that moment in that time. It seems good interventional for that. But I don't really have flashbacks. So I don't think it would be very beneficial.

Scott Benner 51:15
Yeah. I mean, I don't know enough about it to speak about it. But it mean, I don't I also don't think we can't call what happened to you not traumatic. You know,

Sarah 51:24
oh, no, there are definitely some things that, like the one like I was saying, with a therapist, that was just a recent grad. I remember telling her a story from my childhood. She had to say, I'm sorry, give me a second.

Scott Benner 51:36
I need to share to collect herself. Yeah.

Sarah 51:39
She had to collect herself. And I was like, oh, okay, that's

Scott Benner 51:43
happened to be making the podcast and number of times, I'm like, okay, hold on a second. Wait. And it's, it hits you that the person telling the story. It's just, they're just like, oh, this is the thing that happened to me, and it's hitting you so viscerally. You're like, Wait, that's insane. Like, you know, like, I have to like, put those thoughts in order and relax for a second to hear the rest of it. Because it's so outside of ordinary normal kind, you know, all those things. It's hard to look at that person and realize that that's like a Tuesday for them. You

Sarah 52:14
know, it'll be so the thing about the talking that I don't really feel the emotional catharsis from saying, Oh, I experienced this traumatic thing, and it makes me feel this way

Scott Benner 52:28
to release at all. Not at

Sarah 52:30
all, because I don't really so when I think about something traumatic that happened to me when I was five. I remember it vividly. And I know that I have an aversion to mirrors to this day. And I know why I do. I know the event that caused that link to where now I'm just I have all the mirrors in my house covered up except for one. And I know why that is. But I could retell retell the story, but I'm not reliving the fear of that moment. It is just me telling a story. But I still very tangibly have that fear to this day. So I don't really

Scott Benner 53:09
know what happened that made you like, avoid mirrors.

Sarah 53:15
I don't know if my father was on some sort of a bender or whatever. But he had locked me in my mother and our guest bathroom, this house that we lived on. And he was holding a knife to her throat and making her look at herself in the mirror while he's pressing the knife to her and saying say you hate your mother say you hate your daughter say you hate God say you're sorry pieces. And this you have to do this and everything like that. And I don't think that was good to be drafted there like that. How old were you sir? Probably like five.

Scott Benner 53:47
Yeah, you made me cry finally took almost an hour. Good job. Hold on a second.

Unknown Speaker 53:53
I mean, no, no.

Scott Benner 53:57
I can do it. Didn't happen to me. Give me a minute. Just let me Oh, my God. See, that's the thing that happened to you that happen to your mom. And you're recounting it like, Oh my God. In July when I was 10 We went to Disney now. It was amazing. It just it sounds like a regular story from your life. And that's not a regular story.

Sarah 54:20
And that wasn't something super uncommon. I remember we were living in a trailer he kicked down the front door he shattered the glass coffee table cocked the shock that and said where's that tidying? And she crawled out the bathroom window and was hunched underneath the trailer. And we were just saying like, you know, please do not kill her.

Scott Benner 54:39
You just living in a mid level Netflix TV series like what the hell? Like? Seriously, that's that's not a real thing that's supposed to happen.

Sarah 54:47
Unfortunately it is.

Scott Benner 54:50
What's the Okay, here we go. You've lived through all this and seen it. I make you the king of the world. You have a I don't know whatever I give you a magic wand. How do you fix this bigger problem in society? What makes it go away?

Sarah 55:05
I feel a lot of it is education and empathy. I think empathy is a learned skill, because I think I had to learn. I don't remember being particularly empathetic when I was younger. And I remember actively working towards that in college, because I had noticed my anger issues were coming to a head. And I thought that I was getting to a point where I would hurt somebody, and I didn't want to do that to somebody else. Because I've seen what I've done to other people. And I know how it affected me. And I didn't want to do that to anybody else and be that person for somebody. So I consciously worked through becoming more empathetic and developing empathy. And I think it is very possible for people to do that. And I think people aren't as empathetic. Could be. Yeah,

Scott Benner 55:52
so if shock and daddy, for example, have been raised differently, you think that that's not the path he might have been on? I mean, drugs while this is happening, though, too.

Sarah 56:01
Oh, yeah. But apparently, he'd been doing drugs since he was, like, 15. So it's

Scott Benner 56:05
also not good for you? No, yeah. All right. I'm gonna go with drugs, by the way, is my answer for the magic wand. Because what you know, there's, I hate to say something so trite, but there's obviously a cycle going on within families. And at some point, it's got to stop. Like, are you? Do you think you'll stop it? Are you gonna have kids?

Sarah 56:24
No, I have, when, when me and my partner got together, I made it very obvious. I do not want children, if that is something that you want, I'm not willing to compromise on a life.

Scott Benner 56:34
That might be the kindest gift that somebody in your situation can give the world, which is so sad to say, like, but I don't see like, I mean, we're talking for an hour now. And I'm a reasonable person, I don't see the way out of this. Like, like, how does this stop? Do you know what I mean? Like somebody has to stop it. And so somebody either has to, like, somehow, in one generation, push all that out of their head, make a baby and not screw it up, which seems I gotta be honest with you seems kind of unlikely to me. Or a person's just got to step up and say, You know what, I can break a cycle here by not having kids, like, my family has taught this for generations. And I can go live a lovely life, and not teach it to somebody else and let it die here with me. But is that how you feel about it?

Sarah 57:23
To an extent I, I never wanted children to begin with. But part of that is also just because I find so much difficulty caring for myself. And then I doubt my ability to be like you were saying to be a good parent without just passing on different issues in the same vein, or fields,

Scott Benner 57:43
you won't know you're doing it now. Now, here's the alternate to that argument. I can, I can jump on the other side of it and say, everybody's messed up. Not in not enough people are gonna make this ultimate sacrifice to help things. And so like, why should you be the one that doesn't have kids? But at the same time, you have that empathy piece. So you're, you're trying to avoid making people feel the way you feel? And do feel.

Sarah 58:10
Is that fair? That I think that is fair. And besides chips already, so partner already got that the second way. So I think

Scott Benner 58:16
there's other guys I mean, you might end up with Yeah, I'm saying I like this one. Well, listen, your mom like three or four different guys, so it's fine.

Sarah 58:24
Well, this one doesn't hit me. So I think I'm gonna keep on wait, Sarah,

Scott Benner 58:28
where do you have you been with guys that have hit you? I

Sarah 58:32
dated a girl who treated me poorly, but it was never to the point of physical abuse.

Scott Benner 58:36
Okay. Were you scared in that relationship? Oh,

Sarah 58:40
terrified. But I think part of it was also just self flagellation, in the sense of, I was convinced that I was always doing something wrong. So I was always looking for something that I had done wrong. And this was somebody who always needed to let like, let steam off. And I already was taking the assumed role of well, I've already done something wrong. And so I was it was very easy to be like, well, yes, you did.

Scott Benner 59:08
I think. Yeah, I say you were fulfilling a need for her and she was fulfilling one for you. You knew you were a bad person needed somebody to tell you were bad. And she needed to like go off crazy and who better than a person who deserves it? Back? Kind of? Jeez, do you have sex in a relationship like that? Not really. I was gonna say that would be weird. Sometimes I think everybody just needs to go home. Calm down.

Sarah 59:39
I think that does help some people.

Scott Benner 59:43
Oh my gosh, I was one time. I don't even think I could say this on here. But the Facebook group was going crazy, like a couple of years ago. It seems to move with the moon if I'm being completely honest. And then like drunk o'clock comes in there's like, you know, drunk Facebooking And that happens right around 1030. Eastern time. I don't know if anybody knows this or not. But I just one day one of the moderators was like saying to me, like, what is happening? I said, I just texted back. And I said, I think everybody just needs to go, calm down for five seconds. I was like, This is ridiculous. I don't think I wasn't able to relay that publicly, in a way that I thought would be helpful. But I was like, you all need to relax, like find your thing. I don't know what it is. But Jesus, find your thing. But that's also by the way, from a perspective, this mind, which didn't live through the craziness that you've described, or that many people go through, like, my life sucked, like growing up, like, I'm not gonna say differently, you know, there's a lot of yelling from my dad. My mom was a little like, kind of beaten down, like not physically, but you know, she didn't want to be the one that was the focus. So if he altered us, she kind of stayed in the background. There was no money. They weren't doing drugs. Well, in fairness, I know my mom wasn't, I couldn't, I couldn't. I don't think my dad was but I would be too young to know. He wasn't a drinker. Like you know, beer sometimes, but in social situations, and only one or two like a not frequently not a drinker. Just a lot of anger, I guess, at whatever I don't, I couldn't possibly tell you what it was about. But even describing that as my upbringing, and then divorce in there, and like more poverty and like that kind of stuff, even describing that as my upbringing. My upbringing doesn't hold a candle to yours. I look like I lived in leave it the beaver compared to you. Like Nokia, I

Sarah 1:01:40
love hearing you discuss your upbringing. Because when I there's a story that you've told multiple times on the podcast about when you stood up to your father, when he kicked you and you were just like, you know, you can keep doing that. But I changed my mind. And I love hearing you discuss things like that with the difficulties in that. And then the poverty that you experienced. And, you know, I drove because I had to, that's what I was required to do in that situation to make it through and then hearing the stable and level person that I you are perceived to be at least for

Scott Benner 1:02:17
me. Appreciate that. Yeah, I could be making this all up, I guess. But no, I'm, I'm a pretty like, boring person now. Like, I get up, I do a job. I take care of the people I love. I clean the house, like my wife went away for business for three days this week, right? Yeah, a couple of people came to my house to get into one car and go away to this thing that my wife was gonna go speak at. And there's a couple of people in my house that work with my wife, but I've never really met more than just like over zoom calls and stuff like that. Kelly says to me, what are you going to do while I'm gone? So it's like Tuesday morning, she's leaving at like, 10am. She's not coming home till late on Thursday night. And I went, Oh, I mean, well, I'm gonna get ahead on the podcast, and I'm gonna cut the grass. And I'm going to have to go grocery shopping. I don't have enough food here for while you're gone. And that excited me because Kelly doesn't like seafood. I thought, oh, I can eat seafood. Like she won't complain about it smelling that'll be nice. And then Wednesday night, I got done working at like five o'clock. And I was like, I'm gonna go to a movie. I went to a movie by myself. And I had such a nice time. I talked to this lady that I met there and like, we had a lifetime like watching the movie. She and I were the only ones in the theater together. And like, we had a little conversation afterwards. And I went home, and I went to sleep. I didn't get drunk or high. I didn't the lady at the movie theater. Like Like, you don't I mean, like, I just that's pretty much me. Like I'm a pretty normal, like average person. But I still am not boring. I don't I'm not bored by life. I'm not sad. Like, I think this is what people are shooting for. But I think I'm wrong. I think most people are shooting for pills and craziness and you know, live fast. die young. And I'm, I'm like, I don't know, I just I like to help people. Make some money. Take care of the people I love. You know, make sure the laundry is done that kind of stuff. Like, I don't know, maybe that that might sound crazy to other people. Honestly. I have no idea. Yes,

Sarah 1:04:10
it sounds absolutely perfect to me. When somebody says what do you think? What do you want in your life? What do you envision? I think of myself sitting on a porch watching ducks swim on my pond and I own like maybe two acres. That is all I'm shooting for. So a life where you feel content. And well, you know, I'm gonna go cook a meal that maybe my partner doesn't like, and then I'm gonna go watch a movie by myself and then come home to a clean house. That's, that is what I strive to be contempt with content with

Scott Benner 1:04:41
when I think about retirement like older being older. I think about being somewhere physically close enough to my children to watch their lives unfold. I think about having enough money that I can go see somebody or send a gift or if my son or daughter were to call and say oh my god, I'm in so much trouble. I need five $100 I'd be able to go, here's $500. And then the rest of it is, I want to be healthy long enough to sit around with my wife and reminisce about the things we accomplished. Like I actually that's like, I know, people are like, Oh, I'm going to travel and like, I would like to go to a couple of beaches, you know, and hang out, do some stuff like that. But like, if I saw France, or England or Australia, I'd be like, that'd be great. But if it doesn't happen, I wouldn't regret that at all. I wouldn't even care. I just to me, I've always identified myself by the thoughts in my head. And it actually hurt me. I've tried to talk about a little bit in the week over the diaries, like, as I'm talking about losing weight. I think one of the things that hurt me about my weight and my health is I was an adult, is that I never like I didn't judge myself, by the way I looked. So if I gained weight, or I didn't look okay, I still my my thoughts are so crystal clear. So I was like, That's okay, this is who I am and my thoughts. And so even when I think about like how to wind my life down, I really just want to go back over the things that I experienced, like one more time, like I want to do new things, too. But the new things aren't as important as remembering that the accomplishments. And I don't know that's like how it all seems to me. I am probably pretty boring to most people, don't you think?

Sarah 1:06:20
I don't view that as you

Scott Benner 1:06:22
because you have your mom's throat but people were screaming into a mirror. So you're like, that sounds perfect.

Sarah 1:06:28
Okay, so maybe we found another thing that I'm not a good judge of, which is just what people find boring. Because I my, my partner talks about, he wants to travel, he wants to do all these things. And he's thinking about going back to school, and he used to volunteer for the Red Cross and go to like, disaster zones, and he loved every second of it. And that sounds horrible. I do not like the idea of knowing that

Scott Benner 1:06:53
I grew up in a disaster zone, I don't need you to go find another one for me, I'm okay. Yeah, I don't know. Like, to me, that sounds right. Like even like, where I actually spend money in my life is very specific places. Like it's and it's around my comfort. Like I have a really comfortable sofa. Like that's on purpose. Here's the funny thing. I don't sit in it that off, but I have it. And when I go to watch television, when the times when that happens, I sit in a really expensive, like expensive, comfortable leather sofa. And I watch a giant crystal clear television. But I'm doing it a pair of like, underwear I bought four years ago. But you know, like that. So my money is literally in my sofa. It's in my television that I watch when I sit there. But then to actually give myself the time to sit and use those things is is sort of difficult, because I get so much joy out of making the podcast. So like I am working a lot. I know I don't probably doesn't seem like work to some people. But it's an intense amount of time. It's definitely work. Yeah, it's an intense amount of time. So and my car is a little nicer than it needs to be. Because I spend a fair amount of time in my car, like driving to go help other people. So that's pretty much it. Like I don't have, like, I would tell you that the the stuff that I'm looking at everything I use to make the podcast with write everything. And I can do it in my head really quick. 714 21 3000 4005 Six, I'm sitting probably in front of about $6,000 worth of equipment. And that's it. I mean, that's a very low outlay to start a business. Do you know what I mean? Like, it's almost nothing, I don't pay rent, I don't do anything. As a matter of fact, at the end of the year, I end up paying more in taxes than other people because I don't have any overhead. Like I don't have a bill like to pay. I hired an editor and I told the accountant that handles the taxes for the podcast. And he's like, Oh, thank God, you're finally spending money on something. And I was like, what he goes, you know, you don't have anything to write off. Like, at the end of the day. Like it's nothing like my I'm very simple. Like, and I could afford to buy like tchotchkes or other stuff for the desk that maybe but I don't need them. So like I don't need them. It just it's all very like everything seems so cut and dry to me, like about stuff like that, about being wasteful. And and what nice is and like right now today like you know, like Arden didn't feel well yesterday. Like I'm worried about that. So I'm recording with you. And when I'm finished recording with you. She's away at college. So I will get on the phone. I'm going to call a doctor that's local here. I'm going to start getting her set up to come back and do you know to see that doctor when she gets home in four weeks. I'm going to wait for her to wake up. I'm going to counsel her over the phone, comfort her try to make a plan to help her get through the next four weeks. Like that kind of stuff. And it's not fun, but it's fulfilling and if We had to look backward Sarah and wonder. It's probably because no one took care of me like that when I was little, right that do things wrong motivations. Yeah, right? I'm doing that because it's the worst thing that I could remember happening to me. And so for. So therefore, I do not want to do those things to other people, but I am not. But that's not mixed with any kind of mental illness for me. And that, to me, that's the linchpin. Like, that's where it gets hard for other people when you have some sort of depression happening, or, like, you know, intrusive thoughts, which is what I mean, that's the, that's your coffee mug thing like that thought is there so quickly, it's ahead of your common sense. And you're and then that kind of the rest of it just tumbles down and you you just boom, you just fall into a black hole in two seconds. I don't know how to fix that. I'm sorry.

Sarah 1:10:49
I wasn't expecting you to fix meats that I

Scott Benner 1:10:51
didn't think you were. But I still feel bad. Like, because of how I feel towards the people around me. And it's just who I am, like, I had somebody tell me years ago, this is gonna sound crazy. They were in the diabetes space. They wanted to buy an ad for something. I forget what? And the guy goes to me, Well, you're a caregiver. And I said, why? And it's funny, I'd been a stay at home dad for 20 years. At that point, I had a blog that helped people. I was launching the podcast at that point, my whole life I had spent helping other people. And he goes here, you're a caregiver. And and I have to tell you, it's the first time it ever occurred to me, that I was at my core a person who enjoys taking care of other people. I didn't know that about myself. It's really crazy. Actually, I had a woman tell me recently that I'm very direct. And my first thought was, No, I'm not. Like, I didn't know that about myself. And as we started talking, I was like, Oh, she's right, like I am. And I'm not just direct. I'm like northeast Direct, which is even worse. And, and on top of that, I don't have a filter. Like, sometimes people are like, Oh, I really appreciate you having people on to talk about like this, or, you know, even like your conversation today. And I think what why wouldn't I? I don't even understand why, why that wouldn't be a thing someone would do. But overwhelmingly, no one talks about this stuff.

Sarah 1:12:15
When it comes to like not having a filter. I didn't realize until this year, what like a sense of privacy meant. I never had that sense of that as my personal private information. If somebody on the bus stop, who I've never seen before, never met, came up to me and said, Hey, would you like to tell me about the worst day of your life? I'd say? Sure. And I tell them, it doesn't mean anything to me. I wouldn't mind sharing it. Yeah, the very first time I ever experienced the emotion of That's none of your business is when a CDE asked to see my Dexcom graphs. No, you don't need to look at those. That's not for you. That's my just, maybe

Scott Benner 1:12:55
you want to hear about my grandmother and the pills instead. That

Sarah 1:12:59
was easy. That would have been more comfortable for me than letting this woman see my back stock.

Scott Benner 1:13:04
I kid I kid talked about that. So like any good diabetes podcast, we're an hour and 10 minutes into it. When you were dying. You were diagnosed with type one. How did who you are and the life you're living? Did it have a positive or negative impact on you taking care of your diabetes? I feel

Sarah 1:13:22
like at first it was definitely very negative. Because I was incredibly emotional. And I didn't know what I was doing wrong. But I felt because I had that overwhelming sense of we have to do better we are doing wrong. I immediately, like sought out information. I had that little one touch meter. So when I checked, it would point to the red and I was like, oh, red is bad. I'm doing something wrong. Therefore I need to find more information. Because whatever I'm doing is not right. And then changed frequently. Because I was given bare bones advice at the hospital. So I'm not

Scott Benner 1:13:57
assuming you live somewhere where you got rock solid advice. Yeah,

Sarah 1:14:00
I have when I was diagnosed, I said, Well, how do you know, I'm type one. And the nurse looked at me and said, Well, you're not obese. So you're probably type one. Okay,

Scott Benner 1:14:10
like I look into an ad for that. Maybe do anybody nothing. Okay, thank you. Isn't it funny how even the color thing makes you upset? Like red, bad, bad boom. Like, just

Sarah 1:14:21
I have when it comes to the connotations, one thing that my partner when we've been together on those five years, and he learned very early on, he used to tell me that I was great that I was wonderful. And one day I just sat down and said, Just tell me that I'm good. Like, I need you to tell me that I'm good. I don't want to hear that. I'm great. I don't want to hear that. I'm amazing. I need to hear that. I'm good. That words specifically. And that's the word he uses now and I've definitely appreciated it.

Scott Benner 1:14:46
Yeah, that's really nice. That's it's lovely to find somebody that that understands what you're saying and wants to help you too.

Sarah 1:14:52
That's something that he does say that. He's very appreciative of that I have incredibly open communication. So if he He's watching TV or playing his game or doing whatever, I'll say, Hey, I feel like you're ignoring me I need to be paid attention to, can you pay attention to me? And he'll say, Okay, let me pause my game, and I will pay attention to you. Or I'll come in and I will say, Hey, can you be more cautious with your words? Because I'm feeling very sensitive right now. And I feel like he's very easy to hurt feelings. And he'd say, Okay, well, thank you for helping me, I will do that.

Scott Benner 1:15:22
That's nice. I struggled with that a little bit. Because I've never once had like, a bad feeling towards people in my family. Like, you know what I mean? Like, people come and, you know, they have good days and bad days, whether your kids your wife, or can't your parents or something like that, I'm just very accepting of the idea that, like, you're not doing well today, or you are or whatever. And I don't judge people like that. Because of that. I'm always at the same level. Like, I never, never, I try really hard, and I'm better at as I get older, but when I was younger, I was never good at it. Taking into account how I impacted other people. Like, like, it's that I don't know how to explain this other than if we're all good, then it wouldn't matter if we were all good and happy, because we'd all be in that space. But if one person is feeling badly, and you don't realize it, even just you being upbeat, can be difficult for them. And if that makes sense or not, Oh, no. Does what you're saying? Yeah, like, everybody's not always the same volume all the time. And sometimes you're just like, overwhelmingly positive, like, Yay, couldn't feel like it to them. And I use a lot of humor in my life. And so not everybody's always up for that. And I didn't know, like, I didn't know that when I was younger. Like I and I think, ironically, that misunderstanding for me, I think that comes from a lack of self confidence, in a weird way, and I'll explain it like this. I used to think, if I was good at something, then it must be something everyone was good at. Because I couldn't imagine being excellent at something, if that makes sense. And I actually think that comes from like my upbringing, but also I grew up a fat kid. And I think that's, I think that's part of it, honestly. Like, I just never if I did, if I was good at something, I assumed everyone was good at it. And that's not true. You know, like, there are things I'm good at that other people aren't good at. But I had a lot of trouble giving myself credit for it. So that mindset also made me feel like if this is how I feel, this is how everyone else must feel. Does that make sense?

Sarah 1:17:39
I definitely from a different perspective, obviously. But the concept of I feel this way, therefore everyone else must I also have a hard time separating myself from that. I'll often turn to my partner, and I'll say, Hey, is a phrase fit for you often? Is this a person thing or a TV thing? And I'll describe a situation or an emotion? And is that something that real people do? Or is that just something they do on TV? Because I don't know?

Scott Benner 1:18:10
Oh, I wonder how many people try to mimic what they saw on television growing up to like, like, of happiness? Like This must be what happy people do. Or This must be what like, like close families do or people who don't lie to each other. Like didn't mean like, that's why probably that might It's probably why Michael J. Fox is so like, famous because he was on that TV show where, you know, everybody was smiling and happy. And you're like, Oh, this must there must be families like this out there. I'm sure there's not many of them. And those, and probably if you lived in it, you'd be like, This is a weird Stepford Wives thing. I don't think this is normal. I don't expect anybody to be perfect. And I don't expect that anyone listening has a perfect life. But your stuff is like, extra? You don't? I mean,

Sarah 1:18:59
I'd say it's challenging for sure.

Scott Benner 1:19:01
Yeah. But I also don't think it's uncommon. It's just extra. I've

Sarah 1:19:06
definitely I've met plenty of people with very similar stories to me, some people who I'd say went through abuse to like a more direct and severe degree. And it's just it all, and even with like, my siblings, we were in very similar situations. And we all turned out different and similar. So we all turned out substance abuse issues, there's not a single one of my siblings that isn't currently or in the past, like, had some sort of addiction. And she's like, Oh, I wonder where we got that from. But one thing that is really frustrating when explaining this to people is people think that if you're aware of an issue that fixes it, and that's that's not always the case. Like I can know this is a problem and I can know why I'm like this or I can know why I do this, but that does not stop it from being a problem. And that does not help me in making it the anon issue. But people think because you're self aware that Oh, you're you're halfway there. Well, I've been halfway there my entire life. So where's the other half

Scott Benner 1:20:14
right? Now that that is more of a upper middle class white lady idea, the likeable, I've given it voice. So, you know, and by the way, like, that does work for some things. For some people, it's not to be made fun of, it's just not an across the board fix for something, you can't just go, I'm a meth head. Oh, now that I've said it out loud, I guess that'll go away. Like, like, that's not, that's not how that's gonna work like that. But if you're, you know, you know, trying to deal with like, I'm, I get anxious in like, my shopping center parking lot. There's where that works for you, buddy. You know, that kind of idea. And again, I've given voice the things in my life that have helped me. And I do think it's a valuable starting point. But if it's not going to work for everybody, I think you're 100%, right? You know, I don't know, it's, uh, things are complicated, that I know for sure. And humanity is like, is the most complicated thing. And you know, just how someone treating you poorly as a child can just take your entire existence up or put you in a situation where you're constantly battling to get out of a problem, you know, to the point where you're in middle school thinking like maybe if I was dead, this would be better. Like that's, that almost feels like somebody's willfully putting you in that situation. But then you go and look at them and their situation, how they grew up, and you realize they're just a victim of the thing that came before them, just like you are, which doesn't help you. But you know, I don't know, it should give you a highlight and how to get out of it. But I think you don't get out of it. I think you'll get other people out of it. If that makes sense.

Sarah 1:21:54
I think that does. It's just, I wanted to help my sister, I wanted to help my brother, because I do think they could escape it if they wanted to. But they don't want to. And I have offered help for them. But I made it very clear that I'm not willing to sacrifice my peace to help them that I can't I can't hurt myself further, just because I want them to be better.

Scott Benner 1:22:17
So you think they can get out of it? But do you think you can get out of it?

Sarah 1:22:20
I think I am the most stable out of every one in my family. I think in terms of who is doing well. I am the shining example. I'm working. I'm in school. I'm in clinicals I'm doing everything I can I am not currently drinking. I'm I quit smoking in January. I'm taking good care of my health. I'm doing things that I'm supposed to be well,

Scott Benner 1:22:49
are you becoming a nurse?

Sarah 1:22:52
I'm going into respiratory therapy,

Scott Benner 1:22:54
respiratory therapy. Okay, I just heard you say clinicals. That's really one good for you, sir. That's fantastic. Yeah, no, you're

Sarah 1:23:00
tired. I'm working seven days a week. So I'm not really sleeping. But

Scott Benner 1:23:04
yeah, we're gonna want you to get some sleep. But no, I mean, I agree with you, like I, it feels to me, like somebody dug a hole, then went in the hole, dug another hole, then dug former holes, then through your Senate when you were two years old, and said, see if you can go find the sunlight. And you're actually getting there. You absolutely could be one of those people that I've spoken to in the past. Because you're 26. And you're young, even though you probably feel like you're 100 because of what you've been through. But I've talked to plenty of people who are 50 and 60 years old, who when they're telling their life story, tell stories like yours from when they were 1012 1520 or something like that. And when they're 60. It's a distant memory and just a part of their puzzle at that point. And they don't live in the turmoil that they lived in, back when they were telling those stories. So to me that, you know, for my money, like, I don't know how it's gonna go for you. But the only way to find out and have a real chance at success and happiness is to keep going. Like that, to me is like you could get to a place in your life one day where you look back on all that and say, those are the things that made me the, the person I am today and I like who I am. That, to me sounds like how this usually works.

Sarah 1:24:19
That's definitely what I'm striving for. Yeah, no, it

Scott Benner 1:24:23
sounds like you're doing good. It sounds like you're doing really well. Congratulations. The no drinking thing even is a big deal. It's a big leap.

Sarah 1:24:31
I'm definitely one of those people that thinks that if, if you can't have one beer, then your whole life still being controlled by alcohol. So I do drink occasionally. I just try not to get drunk and I don't want to put it on so much of a pedestal that like if I got drunk one time, in six months, then I have to start the calendar all the way over. It's like no, just keep going how you were. That day was a reminder of why you don't do this anymore. I just keep moving, I

Scott Benner 1:25:00
can't tell you how lucky I feel not to have those issues. And with alcohol specifically, I never liked it. It didn't occur to me to continue to do it. And when I hear people talk about their struggles with it, I swear to you, I just think I feel so lucky not to have that problem. Those thoughts that you have to have I, I just I've never considered it. And I'm, like, I don't know who to be thankful to for that. But it just sounds. It sounds like it's a lot, a lot of work. You know, and a lot of, I don't know what the word is really, but just struggle. It's just crazy. Yeah, really is.

Sarah 1:25:40
Struggle is a word that I use to describe, like my daily thought process to my partner. It's just like when your first instinct for things is I should purge, starve, drank, do anything, that it's just bad for your body, you are going against every instinct in your head, and you're like, No, I'm going to eat a proper meal. And I'm going to get a good night's sleep. And I'm going to do all this. And that is not your base instinct. And just because you are doing the things you're supposed to, and you're doing well, it doesn't change the urges is that I still want to do all those things. And I want to not want those things. I've been stuck in I want to not want to do them. And that's just a difficult thing to communicate with. Like, yeah, I'm doing well outside. But like, I still feel this way. I still want to do all those things. I'm still the same person who wants to hurt myself. Right?

Scott Benner 1:26:36
You're controlling, you're controlling those urges. Is that right? To the best that I can best again? Yeah. Geez. All right. What have we not talked about that we should have?

Sarah 1:26:47
Let me had a little list. I wanted to voice a small gripe that I have with the wording that you use across a couple episodes, you say that something is common sense. And you don't use this for just anything like, oh, well, that's common sense. It's common sense. And I have a particular issue with the phrasing of common sense, because I don't think that's real, I think everything is taught or learned. Okay, and I feel I've just known people who were raised in like equally neglectful household that affected their education. And so it'll be something like they were never taught how to clean or sweep or do basic math, that somebody will say it's common sense. And they don't realize that they learned it so long ago that they don't even remember that it was more.

Scott Benner 1:27:33
Yeah, no, I see what would a better reflection of that idea be? So what am I really saying? When I'm saying common sense? I'm saying things that people just intrinsically should know. Is that what I'm saying?

Sarah 1:27:46
No, because I don't I don't think that's the thing either. I think it's all critical thinking, just different levels of critical thinking.

Scott Benner 1:27:52
So. So then what's the what's the I laugh? Because I don't know what to say next. What's the what do you think? I mean, and what would be a better way of saying it?

Sarah 1:28:03
And I think your intentions are good, just because I've listened to over 900 episodes of you. I think I know what you mean, half the time. I think what you're trying to convey is so like, one situation I hear you talk about it a lot is if your blood sugar is going high, you need to take more insulin. That's common sense. But there's so many people who did it, those dots didn't connect at all. So in a sense, that is something that was taught something that was learned. So that's something that is thought about critically. So I don't know a better way to word it.

Scott Benner 1:28:33
Yeah, well, okay. And I don't either, but I'll talk through it with you for a second. So if we, if we know that insulin makes Downey and RP is opposite of Downey, then is it not common sense that you need insulin if your blood sugar's high?

Sarah 1:28:49
Not when you go back and realize that up and down are learned concepts to Oh, what the

Scott Benner 1:28:53
hell am I supposed to say? We should all just jump in a fire. Like I don't know what, like, I mean, at some point. So I guess what I mean is, I've never thought about this, but I'll talk I'll talk it through. There needs to be a base level of critical thinking, right? That happens in a split second, like so, critical thinking that doesn't take years and months of you sitting down and breaking things down and like pulling it apart, but just this happens, that happens. I'm driving a car and something comes at me my foot moves towards the brake. It's kind of it's it's not thought about, but that's the idea. I mean, let's go this is the common next step to take the obvious next step to take you drop a lot of coffee mugs, you should probably get metal coffee mugs. That would be common sense. You could stop yourself from having that experience of dropping and breaking a coffee mug by just getting a metal mug.

Sarah 1:29:45
See I did the metal ones I actually dented them and I caused them to leak so it wasn't much of a difference. I'm very clumsy or

Scott Benner 1:29:52
you keep throwing them at the floor you drop.

Sarah 1:29:55
Okay, I have unknown arthritis I dropped

Scott Benner 1:29:59
Okay. I agree. So I, yeah, I mean, you're not wrong. If I, if I'm brought if a person is brought up in a terrible enough situation and gets absolutely no direction whatsoever, and they live in a filthy house their entire life, it may never occur to them to clean their house. But I didn't grow up in a clean house. And I am very careful to clean my house. But I didn't want my kids to grow up in a house that wasn't clean. Because I wanted them to expect that they deserve to live in a clean place.

Sarah 1:30:30
I get what you're saying. It's just and this was just a small gripe, I'm not trying to, like attack who you are seem like

Scott Benner 1:30:36
a fan out there. I don't feel attacked. Don't worry about it. By the way, I keep wondering when someone's going to come on and really come after me that hasn't happened yet.

Sarah 1:30:42
Well, I'm sorry. That's my biggest gripe that I have with you just and that's just my own personal thing with that little nitpicky phrase.

Scott Benner 1:30:48
Okay, that was it.

Sarah 1:30:51
That's why I was saying about you that I'm

Scott Benner 1:30:53
pretty great. That's what I'm here. For you at least. All right. Well, I don't know what else to say. And you didn't offer any suggestions, by the way. So I don't know. I

Sarah 1:31:03
don't know a resolution, I can only identify a problem. That is part of the issue with my life. Scott.

Scott Benner 1:31:10
I'm very good at pointing out what's wrong. Leave me alone. But I don't know how to fix anything. I don't know what to do next. Well, you do, you're keeping going, that is a real value.

Sarah 1:31:20
I'm moving. I'm trying.

Scott Benner 1:31:22
There's also listen, there's a reasonable argument to be made that says that, for many people getting back to whatever, like normal would have been for them if they had not been impacted by all these other people and things around them. Maybe it's not possible. You know, maybe it's not. Or maybe it is like, it's why I said something crazy. Like, what if you just moved out into the middle of nowhere and just started over again? Like, you know, could you just go okay, none of the things or problems that I had before are here. And I'm just going to, I'm just going to reset myself, but you think they'd come back to you? Because those things are in your mind, then they're not just they're not physical impacts or human impacts. It's, I mean, I don't know, like, I don't want to be like a downer, like, you ever hear me talk to Erica on some of the episodes. And she'll go through like all of the like, you know, very modern and best practices around people's mental health. And sometimes I get to the end, and I'm like, Oh, my God, I feel like none of that's going to help anything. I have such like, it's all great. And it's worth a try. And I see that it's helped people. But I still think like can't possibly help everybody. Once

Sarah 1:32:31
you have the fifth therapist say Well, have you tried journaling? Yes, ma'am. Yes, I have. Emily, no, have you tried yoga? Uh huh.

Scott Benner 1:32:41
I have a whole journal that says my therapist is just like, keep writing it over and over again, there's one word I never used, by the way. That was me being like, like, I was writing a story for some reason. And just like, you know, like, how would that help me? How is that going to help me to it's spitballing at that point, like, I think like, much like regular physical health concerns, mental health concerns can be that way to, like, just, you know, let's just try things and see what helps. And maybe we'll find it and maybe we won't. And I think that when someone says, Have you tried journaling? Have you tried doing this? I think they're doing the same thing. Like, try this and see what happens. You know, like, Maybe this will help, like, Who the hell knows? Like, I don't want yet like, by the way, I don't want you getting lost down a K hole. But I don't know that ketamine won't help you. And I don't know that, you know, you don't have like trauma that you couldn't get rid of with psilocybin therapy. Like, I have no idea. But you know, I can tell you that 7080 years ago, if you had these, like, if you said these things out loud, their doctors that would try to shock your brain.

Sarah 1:33:46
Oh, no, my grandmother, how do you see to

Scott Benner 1:33:48
Oh, yeah, somebody had to have in your life.

Sarah 1:33:54
If AECT didn't have such a common effect of like, memory loss, and I worried about, there are so few memories that I consider to be like, positive that I do want to hold on to. I'm worried that if I went through with AECT, those would be the ones I've lose, and I've keep everything else aside, because the only reason that's holding you back, like

Scott Benner 1:34:14
what stops you you're like, you know, I'm just gonna lose the good stuff and keep the bad stuff. I do that. Like

Sarah 1:34:20
Scott when my second house burned down. I thought, why did I think this couldn't happen?

Scott Benner 1:34:27
Is it real weird? Isn't it weird? Like how things like dude, Pat, do you know how your home's burnt down?

Sarah 1:34:32
Both electrical fires are bad wiring old houses. Isn't

Scott Benner 1:34:36
that something? That's economics? Really? You know what I mean? Like, you know, get something built, it's not built well, or it's so old, and you can't afford to maintain it like that. That's all just money, I'm afraid.

Sarah 1:34:51
Oh, yeah, money is the root of a lot of things. So I'm hoping to finish school and I mean, the job that I'm going for the starting pay is $24 an hour which does and sound like much, but when I made 19, I saved over half of my pay in six months. Yeah, let's go. I, I'm used to live in on unless I think my car cost $600. And it runs on a prayer. And my home goes, the power goes out every time it rains. And I think a strong wind knocked down though. We're here for now

Scott Benner 1:35:21
you're getting there. Yeah, my son has this first job out of college. And it's a one year stint. He's 10 months into it. And he saved some, like an impressive amount of money. And I know that he did that, because he's not making a lot. And I know that he did that by limiting himself. And he talked to me about how, at the end of the week, he opens up his bank account, and he looks and he goes, Okay, I spent more money than I should have this week. Where did I do that? And then he adjusts himself. And he cooks his own meals and prepares his lunches and stuff like that to save money. And again, like, so it's interesting, like here, I think that's common sense. He got to work. He saw a bunch of young people who were just ordering like, GrubHub every day at lunch, and he sat there and when they just paid $25 For lunch, we only make this much an hour. They just gave away this portion of their day. I'm not going to do that. And then he didn't. And he steadfastly stuck to it. And when he told me that I thought, oh, that's common. That's good. That's common sense. But what you're saying is that somehow, some way we taught him that,

Sarah 1:36:25
I think that you did, because I, I know that y'all did eat out and do things like that. But it wasn't an everyday thing. You weren't always ordering DoorDash or something, and you weren't always going to a restaurant, it wasn't something so easily accessible. And I know that you weren't afraid to tell your children. No. But in a similar situation. I would have seen people doing that and be like, Don't they know that a loaf of bread cost $1? To jar peanut butters to 50?

Scott Benner 1:36:50
Yeah, no, right. Yeah. Listen, I, but I grew up, my parents were terrible with money. They were broke, and they didn't know how to manage what they had. So why do I know? Because

Sarah 1:37:00
you had to you had to learn out of necessity, because you saw what was the contrary, teaching yourself is still learning.

Scott Benner 1:37:08
Sarah, I think I have something though, that is unusual in my situation. So let me say this, if there's some level of intellect that leads you to make decisions, and those decisions lead you down paths, right. And a better decision early on would have led you down a different path. Not to say that everybody has access to those better decisions. But I'm saying that there are some people who are more intellectually challenged than others. And so therefore, their decision making process is more questionable. I grew up with people like that mother, father, not brain surgeons, okay, and didn't come from any kind of money. And then they were put in a bad situation, they made more bad decisions that led down more bad paths. How come I didn't have that happened to me as an adult, I'm adopted. I'm not them. Like my brain is not wired the way theirs is. And so even as a small child, and growing up, I'd watched my parents do things and think that was not the right thing to do. Like, we're in a bad situation here, they did x, they definitely should have done y. And then I'd watch it go bad. And I'd go, Okay, I was right about that. And so, you know, the only I know I don't like want to dig into it, but like, when I was in kindergarten, they pulled me aside and identified me and made me take IQ tests, which used to be a big thing. Because they were trying to like section out kids, they thought were smart and give them different education and public school, which by the way, was a terrible idea. And so I know my IQ, I will tell you this, it's high enough, I won't say it on the podcast. Because it's embarrassing. And it doesn't reflect my intellect. It's just my, I don't know what IQ really measures. And maybe it's both. I have no idea. But what I do know is when you put me in bad situations, I consistently make good decisions. And that's really where my intelligence works. I'm not good at math. I don't remember things about like social studies or science, I'd be terrible at science. I'd be a horrible doctor. If I had to learn the things like I mean, like the the thinking part of it, I'd be okay with the understanding ideas. But like the science I couldn't do, you don't want me involved in any way in anything mathematical. But again, I just try to the way I say it in the podcast is like if the zombies come like you find me I'm living. Like, I'll be okay. When it's over. I'll be the lady that has the zombies on a leash and they're out there killing people for me like guard dogs, or whatever happened to that TV show. And like, like, like, I'll be the Zombie Master when it's over. So I could see my parents making all these mistakes. And my common sense told me not to do that stuff. But they didn't teach it to me. It's just and so I do wonder sometimes how much all this has to do with just processing power in your brain? I

Sarah 1:40:05
do think that definitely does have a play. And I also grew the testing to get the quote unquote, gifted children in public education. I was also in that program, and it just it just felt like total Wolf. Oh, why am I here?

Scott Benner 1:40:19
So I dropped out of it. While everyone else was like, I did it for years. And as I was leaving middle school to go to high school, or as I was leaving elementary school to go to middle school, elementary school to go to middle school, I went to my parents as like a fifth grader, and said, My I need to get out of this program. And she's my mom. My mom was like, devastated. Because she's like, she thought this was the pathway to success, like, No, they've identified you, you're going to like, go on to blah, blah, blah. And I look back now I found some of the people who are in that class, they all crumbled, like the pressure that they put on those kids from, like a young age to be terrific. It didn't do well, for most of them.

Sarah 1:41:04
Oh, yeah. That's referred to as gifted kid syndrome now. Oh, really? Oh, it has a name. It's not a real. It's not a real diagnosis. But it's just like a common social media thing of like, oh, well, if you're a rack full of anxiety, and a perfectionist, I guess you were a gifted child.

Scott Benner 1:41:18
I don't know, I got the hell away from it. I was like, This is not good. I'm leaving. And so I went back into like, Gen pop, I guess he was a prison term. And back with everybody, and I was much better off. I thought, you know, and then truth be told, it really is. The only thing that helps me get all the way out of that hole is meeting my wife, who was willing to judge me on my thoughts and who I was not where I came from, or what I had, she was ahead of me, like she grew up in a more like, a household that that really put a premium on education. So she was in college, she had kind of ascended out of that hole a little farther than I had. And she was willing to, like, stand shoulder to shoulder with me in public and say, This is my boyfriend, even though like, socially, I did not. I didn't belong with her, if that makes sense. And so like, you know, to the naked eye, and so she was willing to like judge me on who I was, and my thoughts that allowed me to jump up a level, and then reset myself. If that makes sense. It might sound like both. I've no idea. But that's how I say

Sarah 1:42:31
it doesn't sound like it's from a different perspective, I changed a lot about how I care for myself and how I act for my partner. Because when I got into this relationship, I said, okay, if I'm really going to take this seriously, I don't think a healthy relationship. Common loving home is one where when she gets too stressed out, she hits her head on the wall sometimes and down to fifth and Morgan. So maybe we don't want to do that. So I stopped drinking when we moved in together, and I started bettering myself in the expense that I could. And I'm not saying that I've always done it perfectly, but I do what I can to care for myself mostly, and motivation of not wanting to be the person that harmed somebody else. I do think I'd be in a completely different situation without him because I wouldn't have the motivation to be doing better. No,

Scott Benner 1:43:23
I understand. I have to tell you that talking to you. And conversations like this one makes me want to stay alive for 50 more years and put you on the books for another conversation like 20 years from now I want to be like, Hey, let's get you. Let's get you set up for 2043. And, and do another podcast because I think you're going to be in a great place. And sadly, I'll be dead. So I won't know. But

Sarah 1:43:43
I live another 50 years. Now.

Scott Benner 1:43:47
I'm definitely not getting 50. But will I be alive in 20 years? I don't think I can make a podcast and 20 years. So

Sarah 1:43:54
maybe you'll have enough bankroll at that time. You can hire people to press record for you schedule everything, do everything. All you got to do is talk.

Scott Benner 1:44:00
There it is Scott say what you think what she said her mom and oh my god. All right. Well, Sara, thank you. I really appreciate you doing this with me. I can't tell you how kind it was. Let me just share a story that I think a lot of people will resonate with. And the ones who don't will might give him something to think about. So thank you very much

Jaylen is an incredible example of what's so many experience living with diabetes. You show up for yourself and others every day, never letting diabetes define you. And that is what the Medtronic champion community is all about. Each of us is strong and together, we're even stronger. To hear more stories from the Medtronic champion community where to share your own story, visit Medtronic diabetes.com/juicebox And look out online for the hashtag Medtronic champion. A huge Thanks to touched by type one for sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast. Check them out on their website touched by type one.org or on Facebook and Instagram. A huge thank you to one of today's sponsors, G voc glucagon, find out more about Chivo Capo pen at G voc glucagon.com. Forward slash juicebox. you spell that GVOKEGLUC AG o n.com. Forward slash juicebox. If you're not already subscribed or following in your favorite audio app, please take the time now to do that. It really helps the show and get those automatic downloads set up so you never miss an episode. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast. The episode you just heard was professionally edited by wrong way recording runway recording.com

#1232 Ask Scott and Jenny: Chapter Twenty-Three

Scott and Jenny Smith, CDE answer your diabetes questions.

• How do you keep a straight line on a CGM?

• With so many variables that can impact blood sugar, how do you know when to dose more insulin?

• What are the pros and cons of seeing an endocrinologist versus a general medicine doctor?

• How does diabetes affect a child’s learning? Highs and lows in particular.

• How do you approach doctors who discourage patients from having a tight range, especially when there is no burnout?

• What are the long-term consequences of hypoglycemia?

• How close is too close for a CGM and a pump site to be together?

• How do you train your type 1 kid to wake up for a hypo?

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, welcome to episode 1232 of the Juicebox Podcast

welcome back to another episode of Ask Scott and Jenny today Jenny Smith and I are going to answer the questions sent in by you the listeners. And don't forget, you can hire Jenny at integrated diabetes.com Nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. Don't forget if you'd like to save 30% at cozy earth.com You can use the offer code juice box at checkout to save 30% off of your entire cart. But if you want an extra little surprise go to juicebox podcast.com and click on the link on the front page. When you place your first order for ag one with my link you'll get five free travel packs and a free year supply of vitamin D drink ag one.com/juice box guys the surveys were down last month at T one D exchange.org/juice. Box I'm not blaming anybody you were probably busy school was ending etc. But now you're just sitting around staring at your kids and wondering when the hell they're gonna leave you alone. So go find 10 minutes where you can be all by yourself T one D exchange.org/juice box take that survey please. This show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries G voc hypo penne Find out more at G voc glucagon.com forward slash juicebox. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by us med U S med.com/juice box or call 888721151 for us med is where my daughter gets her diabetes supplies from and you could to use the link or number to get your free benefit check and get started today with us med Today's episode is sponsored by Medtronic diabetes, a company that's bringing together people who are redefining what it means to live with diabetes. Later in this episode, I'll be speaking with Mark, he was diagnosed with type one diabetes at 28. He's 47. Now he's going to tell you a little bit about his story. To hear more stories from the Medtronic champion community or to share your own story. Visit Medtronic diabetes.com/juice box and check out the Medtronic champion hashtag on social media. Jenny, we are pushing through our ask Scott and Jenny questions I think pushing through is not the right phrase doesn't make us sound like we're here willfully.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 2:49
Correct. It does not even remember that I'm always like, what are we doing today? Scott?

Scott Benner 2:54
Yeah, that's okay. Well, we're gonna we're on topic or whatever. Well, there's no topic. We're just gonna go through people's questions. I'm just going through this document full of questions from people who listen to the podcast, so you're ready to jump in? Yes. Let's start with something a little nebulous. How do you keep a straight line on the CGM? Seriously, I am listening to the podcast and we are continually improving. And we've come so far, primarily because of the podcast. That's nice, truthfully, but the line just isn't straight. I just would like it to be straighter. And although our highs are less high, now, they are still higher than I'd like. So how do you keep a flatter graph? I mean,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 3:39
this is the one thing that I hear over and over and over and over in questions. Look at my numbers. They're not stable. They're not flat, and like you kind of standard deviation of 19. And you're averaging a 102 blood sugar. How much more stable? Do you want that to be? Exactly? I mean, I'm not saying this from a you know, it's not judgment, but it's like, we have to look at this as well, without any information about what this person's data or their data for their child. Maybe it is much more variability or much higher standard deviation than they really want. Great. Could you contain that a little more? Probably. And it does take work. It takes effort. It takes some experimentation with sounds like you know, this person is doing but a straight flat line. Even in somebody without diabetes. That's not the goal. The goal isn't straight straight. Yeah. Nobody's I mean, overnight, maybe right overnight, where there aren't the variables of exercise and food and extra Bolus, insulin and everything. Those are the drivers of the up and down. But in that environment, sure. Stable straight. Absolutely. That would be lovely to aim for. During the daytime. You're looking for more gentle rolls through the day, with a lot less variability a lot less. I started at 100 It goes to 190. Maybe it starts at 100. And it only goes up to 150. That's, that's improvement. Again, you're not looking at 100 stays 100.

Scott Benner 5:10
Yeah. So I think what can happen if you're listening to the podcast is that I don't talk about diabetes from like, this is kind of okay situation, I give you what looks good, right? You know, right, golden, and you try to get to it on your way to it. It's not going to be perfect right away. And so what I see in this question is progress. You know, that's, yeah, absolutely. I started somewhere, it's getting better. How come I can't get to it? And I just think that the answer is time and experience. Yep. If you have the, the nuts and bolts, if you have Pre-Bolus thing, and, you know, timing and amount, and using insulin and stuff like that, then it's just at that point, it becomes repetition. Rack, you know, it becomes not getting complacent and saying, Okay, well, when we eat this, my blood sugar goes to 250. And that's just going to be that. Like, it's like, I wonder what would work here? Is it more insulin? Is it a little longer? Pre-Bolus? Do I should I come back in 45 minutes an hour later and try to get ahead of a fat rise, like that kind of stuff. But I do take your point, too, that some people can get overwhelmed with the idea of just this incredibly flat, right line that's supposed to be at I don't know, 85 forever and ever. And I mean, a person who doesn't have diabetes won't see that. Correct?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 6:32
Yeah, right. And even if you look at those who are following more of the low carb or even the ketogenic, their lines are not flat, so to speak. I mean, flat really means almost no, no variance. Yeah, at all. Right. So while their numbers look more stable, and I guess within a smaller, you know, standard deviation, there still is some little bit of up and down to that. So agreed. Sounds like progress has certainly been made for this person who's asking. And the goal again, then is I think it's even more defined by what are your target goals? Yeah. Where are you aiming to be above on the lower end? And where do you really want to try most often, to kind of hit a top end and not really sit there, but to have it come back down to the mid ground,

Scott Benner 7:20
I take a lot of direction from something you said to me a long time ago, about more like rolling hills, getting rid of sharp peaks, that kind of an idea. I mean, obviously, if you have a meal and your blood sugar jumps to 250, and you know, in 15 or 20 minutes, you didn't meet the need, you know, and it popped up. And now our goal was, let's get it back down without getting low, you know, as quickly as we can. I mean, listen, if you're eating a standard diet, right, like, I mean, I'm not talking about that either, unless you're gonna be like, very ultra low carb or something like that. And probably mixing in some old timey insulin in there too, and doing some other things. Yeah. Which is not not doable. I always kind of look at, like, thresholds. So for me, if Arden goes 141 50 and rolls back down again, at food I go, I wasn't perfect, but it's very good. And reasonable. Also, I don't want the 150 to be for three hours. I'm talking about, right, maybe a 40 minute window, you know what I mean? Just like kinda up and kind of down. Okay, right. And

Jennifer Smith, CDE 8:25
the exact in that example, too, if she's starting at 140, she grazes 150. And then over, you know, an hour she comes back down and she lands at 140. Bolus did its job, right. And your timing did its job, something else might not be quite right. If it doesn't get back down to target, which might be 100 instead of 140. Right. But again, your little bump up and down. Yeah,

Scott Benner 8:47
was lovely. My example actually, I'm maybe I misspoke. I'm talking about she's between 80 and 100, or something and she eats and she rolls the 140 and goes back if Arden was 140 all day, I would definitely I would be like yes, I know you're missing something.

Unknown Speaker 9:02
Something's not right. But

Scott Benner 9:03
again, not messing it up. Just something's you said it better. There's something's not right. Basil is not right. We haven't corrected in the right place. There's food we didn't account for somehow with insulin, right? Because if I'm stable at 140, all day, I certainly could be stable at 90. Yeah, you know, it's just somewhere along there, something's moved. So I would say to people, like, if you're on it, if you if you've got a background, you're building your understanding. I think the next goal is just to kind of give yourself some grace and just chill out and let time pass a little bit. Now if it's getting worse and worse and worse, higher and higher. You might have to worry about your weight, what you're doing, I think, correct

Jennifer Smith, CDE 9:41
and doses maybe things have adjusted maybe if this is a child the child is grown or they've added something else into the mix in terms of activities, or stress or whatever it might be right. But again, I know the big bottom line is that flat, completely flat with no variance is really not. It's not the goal that you're aiming for unless you really just don't want to eat anything.

Scott Benner 10:08
Never have a carbohydrate again in your life which is again you want to I'd start with me just you know Yeah. If you take insulin or sulfonylureas you are at risk for your blood sugar going too low. You need a safety net when it matters most. Be ready with G voc hypo pen. My daughter carries G voc hypo pen everywhere she goes, because it's a ready to use rescue pen for treating very low blood sugar and people with diabetes ages two and above that I trust. Low blood sugar emergencies can happen unexpectedly and they demand quick action. Luckily, G voc hypo pen can be administered in two simple steps even by yourself in certain situations. Show those around you where you store Chivo Capo pen and how to use it. They need to know how to use G Bo Capo pen before an emergency situation happens. Learn more about why G vo Capo pen is in Ardens diabetes toolkit at G voc glucagon.com/juicebox. G voc shouldn't be used if you have a tumor in the gland on the top of your kidneys called a pheochromocytoma. Or if you have a tumor in your pancreas called an insulinoma visit G voc glucagon.com/risk For safety information. diabetes comes with a lot of things to remember. So it's nice when someone takes something off of your plate. US med has done that for us. When it's time for art and supplies to be refreshed. We get an email rolls up in your inbox says hi Arden. This is your friendly reorder email from us med. You open up the email to big button it says click here to reorder and you're done. Finally, somebody taking away a responsibility instead of adding one. US med has done that for us. An email arrives, we click on a link and the next thing you know your products are at the front door. That simple. Us med.com/juice box or call 888-721-1514 I never have to wonder if Arden has enough supplies. I click on one link. I open up a box. I put the stuff in the drawer. And we're done. US med carries everything from insulin pumps, and diabetes testing supplies to the latest CGM like the libre three and the Dexcom G seven. They accept Medicare nationwide, over 800 private insurers. And all you have to do to get started is called 888-721-1514. Or go to my link us med.com/juice box using that number or my link helps to support the production of the Juicebox Podcast. Right now we're gonna hear from a member of the Medtronic champion community. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by Medtronic diabetes. And this is Mark.

David 12:59
I use injections for about six months. And then my endocrinologist and a navy recommended a pump. How long had

Scott Benner 13:05
you been in the Navy? Eight years up to that point? I've interviewed a number of people who have been diagnosed during service and most of the time they're discharged. What happened to you?

David 13:15
I was medically discharged. Yeah, six months after my diagnosis. Was

Scott Benner 13:18
it your goal to stay in the Navy for your whole life? Your career was

David 13:22
Yeah, yeah. In fact, I think a few months before my diagnosis, my wife and I had that discussion about, you know, staying in for the long term. And, you know, we made the decision despite all the hardships and time away from home, that was what we loved the

Scott Benner 13:36
most. Was the Navy, like a lifetime goal of yours?

David 13:39
lifetime goal. I mean, as my earliest childhood memories were flying, being a fighter pilot,

Scott Benner 13:45
how did your diagnosis impact your lifelong dream?

David 13:48
It was devastating. Everything I had done in life, everything I'd worked up to up to that point was just taken away in an instant. I was not prepared for that at all. What does your support system look like? friends, your family caregivers, you know, for me to Medtronic champions, community, you know, all those resources that are out there to help guide the way but then help keep abreast on you know, the new things that are coming down the pike and to give you hope for eventually that we can find a cure. And

Scott Benner 14:13
you can hear more stories from Medtronic champions and share your own story at Medtronic diabetes.com/juice box. So with so many variables that can impact blood sugars, how do you know when to dose more insulin? I can imagine this will get easier once I have a pump and I can slightly give my daughter more insulin but today we Pre-Bolus Traumeel or BGB for lunch was 116 but two hours later, it was 350 It's infuriating. And I don't know why this happens or what to do.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 14:46
Yeah, well, that sounds like the wrong dose. Yeah, man. It sounds like they're working on Pre-Bolus Right, that that was in the picture. You had a starting blood sugar that was in a nice place to begin with, especially if this you know, is a child Old that who is eating carbohydrates. And if your blood sugar is in the three hundreds after and I would say that the follow up to that is if you're in the three hundreds or if you're in the two hundreds, and it sits stuck there. Remember the Bolus, his job is to work that blood sugar back down, at least close enough to the target that you're aiming for. And if it does not, then the Bolus is the problem. Your timing, maybe you needed five more minutes. But a blood sugar shift of that much really indicates a deficit of insulin.

Scott Benner 15:30
Yeah. It seems simple to me. But yeah, I think that's the answer. If you if the food is overpowering the insulin to that degree, then there wasn't enough insulin there to resist it.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 15:41
And I will say that, for some kiddos, again, this is MDI. And there is a little bit of a difference, because you could potentially to get rid of those more extreme high blood sugars or to stay under a high value that you're aiming for after a meal, you may end up making the insulin to carb ratio more aggressive. But because you can't get the precision of dosing there, what you may end up having to do is on the back end, as that as that Bolus is bringing the blood sugar down, you may have to have an uncovered snack, in order for that to actually work all around, right? Because the dosing can't be as teeny tiny as might be needed to give just a little more. But on the back end, you have to kind of cover the extra then for MTI to be

Scott Benner 16:30
tougher with little kids, because such a small amount can move you so greatly, but I mean, 350 is to me, like Jenny said, it feels like way too high. You didn't cover the food correctly. Now, if that person was here to say to me, Hey, I counted those carbs, right? Like I did it right, then you start looking at, is there something about this food specifically, that needs more than Yes, other foods that have this carbohydrate count, which can happen all the time, like some foods are just, you know, they just need more. And so you have to do what they what they need not,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 17:02
not me or some little kids to you know, who really have a hard time. I mean, again, it sounds like they're doing Pre-Bolus Here in this example. But some kids, it's really hard for them to wait for that Bolus to start working, right maybe even the length of time that you as the observer or the caregiver knows you should wait. And in those I mean, I think you did you did with the glucose goddess, right? Yeah, interviewed her. That's where some of those kind of hacks if you will really become beneficial. Have your child start with the protein at the mealtime, have them start with the protein and the vegetables if they really can't wait, and especially if there's something more high glycemic, that's coming, put it at the end of the meal, so that you get a little bit of cushion for digestion and letting the insulin start to have a little bit more, you know, pull action. I've

Scott Benner 17:53
heard back from a number of people who have done some of those hacks, just you know, eating foods in different orders that they've they've reported back they've had some really interesting and beneficial experiences. So nice. Okay, what are the pros and cons of seeing an endo as an adult? Who has type one? Alright, hold on, this person has type one diabetes, she's saying what's the point of me seeing an endo? When I already have to see my other provider twice a year? And I'm getting meds from them? What am I gaining from my endocrinologist at this point? I go back and forth about this. So why can't I just get my doctor, I had this diabetes thing for freaking ever. Why can't I just get my doctor to give me some scripts? I know what I need? I think that's the question.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 18:34
It sounds like it? Yeah, it's a good question. I would say if you really feel like there is something that you need some extra help with, in the realm of diabetes, or maybe you have diabetes, and you have thyroid condition as well, or any of the other autoimmune types of conditions, then an endocrinologist really would be the more beneficial kind of person to go to truly, because while a general medicine doctor knows about all conditions, they really have general information about those conditions. When you have specialized needs, a specialist should be able to take the deeper dive with you answer more in depth questions, if there's additional medication, you know, even in the realm of using some of these newer injectable non insulin medications for things, primary care again, no is like the tip of the iceberg of information if you're going to really get the best benefit of some of these alternatives, going to an endocrinologist and not all of them will fit the bill you may have to search around right? And maybe that's the reason this person really relies on their primary care, because they feel like they don't really get anything extra from their endo anyway, which could be a little give and take there. Are you going to your endo and asking questions and they're just not able to answer. Search around find somebody new because you should have somebody like that on your team. However, if you're not really asking any questions you're expecting Um, to like, pull everything out of you, then maybe it's not an equal relationship. Right?

Scott Benner 20:05
I was gonna say that if in the scenario, the endo is just useless to them, you know, like not giving good information, there's still some benefits. For instance, I don't think a regular doctor would remind you once a year to get your vision checked. Typically, like little stuff like that, like, you know, if a new glucagon comes out, yeah, your regular doctor is not going to know about that. That's the little stuff there, I would think about like, I would think my concern would be not being enveloped in diabetes, and then getting left behind somehow, also, I don't know this person's situation. Now if this person is writing to us, and she's got, you know, a five, eight, A, one C, and she's just rolling through life, then my might say, yeah, you probably don't need an endo. Right. You don't have any big questions, but at this same person's rockin and eight right now, right here, your GPS, okay with that? I mean, maybe an endo would at least ping you every once in a while and go, hey, could we wrecked try a pump? Could we do this? Have you considered this? Like, you know, they're gonna know not to be happy with that number? And

Jennifer Smith, CDE 21:08
with that, again, depending on where the management looks like it is, is the primary care even looking at that? Do they have the tech that's available within their clinical, you know, space or their portals? Does it allow them to review CGM and pump data or even something like the hidden pen data or some of the smart device data? If it doesn't, you're really out on your own. Looking at all of that by yourself? Yeah, they may be able to write your scripts and write the labs that you know they think are needed, and you know, that you should be getting, maybe they even remind you go to the podiatrist every single year, right. But outside of that, the deeper things like you said, glucagon, goodness, you know how many people with type two diabetes on insulin are never ever told ever?

Scott Benner 21:55
About glucagon? Yeah, those are people who are going to an endocrinologist.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 22:00
And some of them are, some of them are going to primary care. And that's my point. You know, they may not, they may not know. So,

Scott Benner 22:05
like, I get the frustration. This person is not helping me move forward. Yes. But I think that then your point, go find somebody who will not stop completely. It's it feels to me, like there's more of a chance for something to tumble away from you. Without having that interaction. Now, maybe you're getting that interaction somewhere else. That's fine. Like I, you know, funny. I don't think anybody would think it was odd that I would say this, but I still feel weird about it. Like, even though I'm the one who has and runs a really big Facebook group for diabetes. I get with people think that and go Why would I help? You know, why not a community from it's really helpful. So if you have like community somewhere and you're hearing about things somewhere, that's fine, but I just don't want people to get complacent. That's my, my bigger concern. Okay, right. Well, here's a fast one that doesn't need an answer. How do I adjust settings on loop? We need an update with Kenny. Oh, remember my fox in the loop house episodes. And I am including this little thing here to tell you that there is a series with Kenny coming up at the end of 2024. That's fun. Oh, there you go. You just wait for that. Sorry, the answer is not in here right now. Next question. How does diabetes affect a child's learning in particular highs and lows? I have found my daughter seems to hit a wall. So she seems to hit a wall when her blood sugar gets around. 10 Oh, am Oh, oh, this person's 10 millimoles. That's a 181 80 blood sugar. It seems like anything she learned before she can no longer remember. And everything is just too hard to comprehend. The thing is, this affects my daughter's mostly during math. It stresses her out. When she gets stressed. Her blood sugar goes up more. I don't know how to help her with this. It's like when she's high. She has ADHD symptoms. And short term memory is no good. She can't retain anything I can outperform when she needs to. So Jenny, you and I have an episode about this. It's called altered minds. Maybe?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 24:04
Oh, okay. Maybe I do remember having a conversation about it. I mean, some of the questions and I think it we brought it in that conversation, it revolves around how often are they being pulled in school by a nurse or are being pulled out of that class, or a class to go and take care of something that is blood sugar relative, because then they're, they're kind of lagging in what the other students are actually getting, because they're not getting instructed in it. And they may have to play catch up on their own. So that's not really relative to the number in blood sugar, but it's more relative to the loss of what they're supposed to be getting by sitting in class. If this person seems to be more, I guess, mindful of when their child learns best, and it's When blood sugar is in what they're considering a target range. And, I mean, again, we've discussed the high levels and the low levels, you know, touching a high I level and then turning around and coming down isn't as detrimental as hanging high, right? Because that also means that your brain either hanging high or hanging too low, it doesn't really get the right amount of energy to retain and you know, incorporate all of that stuff on top of what they've already learned.

Scott Benner 25:20
I found it interesting. By the way, the episode we did was episode 485 is called altered minds. God, it was like three years ago time ago. God, Am I old, what's happening? Okay, let's not think about that right now. It came up because I noticed, and I'm sure you've noticed, and everybody else has noticed, too, but people don't believe this. They don't believe that wildly higher or lower blood sugars, impact people, or they don't want to believe it. I don't understand. I can never really wrap my mind around it. But a lot of people act like it's an excuse you're trying to use. Right? Right. My blood sugar's high. I can't I can't pay attention. That's an excuse. Well, it's not. And so we went into some great depths to talk about that in that episode. So I would say to this person's question, I completely believe this. You know, if the kids blood sugars, like you said, if it's like 9180, back to 90 again, then I don't see it as much but one ad for an hour or two hours. I don't disbelieve that at all. I've I've mentioned a million times that watching Arden in sports, her butcher got to a certain level, and she literally slowed down when she was running. Yeah, and her hand eye coordination changed and all this stuff. So here's what I would say. Imagine you've had a big turkey dinner. And you got that dopey feeling, and then someone brought algebra to you. Yeah, that's what it seems like to me. So

Jennifer Smith, CDE 26:41
or is teaching, you know, some type of fact for the first time, that's supposed to be building on what you've already known. But if all those things that you've already been taught, were built in certain levels of glucose, your reception for some of that stuff. I mean, it all builds on itself, what you learn, it builds, it builds, it builds. And so depending on where the blood sugar, even the variability in if you've got a child, or a teen who's got a blood sugar that looks like the Rocky Mountains up, down, up, down, up, down, up, down, and it's all day long. Absolutely, that's going to have an impact on their learning capacity that's happening

Scott Benner 27:18
right now. Don't hear that and go, Oh, I'm a terrible parent, like just No, yeah, go do the like, go to the Pro Tip series and learn how to stop that from happening. That's all, you know, again, get to it as quickly as you can. But at the same time, it is what it is. You're not gonna learn it overnight. I guess, again,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 27:34
this person sort of also brings in the fact that this particular class also stresses their child. Yeah,

Scott Benner 27:41
right in the process of it happening adds to it again. Now. That's true. I don't know how to help with that. But I have been married a long time. And I know just telling her to calm down is not the answer. No, it has not worked out when I was married in the first decade. Yeah,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 27:56
and those are, you know, those are some of the things with school aged kids that we look at, maybe this class is every Thursday, and Friday, or every Tuesday and Wednesday, or whatever it is. Sometimes if you look at your child's class schedule, you can actually tell that there's some pattern to times of day, one in particular that I always see in kids records is their weekend mornings look beautiful, flat and stable. They might even have like, a three times carb amount pancake breakfast on a Saturday, that looks nice and beautiful. And they get right into lunch looking lovely. Whereas their low carb breakfast on their school days, does completely the opposite. And it's the transition into their school day. It's either the anticipation or the excitement, kind of doesn't really matter matter. inch to age. But again, it might be relevant to dosing around a class like that. That's a really stressful class. Maybe that class causes a rise in blood sugar of 100 points, every time they cut goes and sits down. We'll assume that the class is almost like carbohydrate, then I never have to dose for it.

Scott Benner 29:05
You could try to come at it with an increased Basal if you timed it. Well, you could Bolus for the class if that's gonna happen. I you know, anyway, yes. Higher blood sugars can create situations the way you described. And yes, stress and anxiety or excitement can make your blood sugar go up. So I think, by the way, it's worth pointing out as we get away from that question, good on her for noticing it. Absolutely. Because a lot of people just go I don't know what's happening. Magic diabetes came again. Yeah, you're actually seeing what's happening, which is really cool. Okay, I have two here. I like both of them. How do you approach doctors who discourage patients from having a tight range, especially when there is no burnout? They don't seem to believe patients are getting good numbers without it being a huge burden to them. How can we get them to be supportive of having In a tighter range with with fewer lows, especially in front of our kids. This happens Jenny, this happens all the time. It does. Yeah, this is one of those things that I I used to be shocked by. But now I'm just shocked when I don't hear about it. Somebody all, I always get a note that says, Oh my God, listen, podcast, everything got so much better. So excited to go to the doctor, I went to the doctor, Doctor yelled at me for 15 minutes. I was like, what happened? Yeah, you must have gotten to these numbers by having lows

Jennifer Smith, CDE 30:27
in there reminds me too, that a lot of times doctors are still using that average of an E one C as a hallmark of how are you doing. And if you have an A one, c, that is 5.4, let's say pull a number out of a hat, that number to the doctor represents some stress in management, something is too overwhelming, you are on top of it way too often, you're just visually watching it 24/7, or there must be some low blood sugar. So rather than that doctor actually even looking at your data, they just make a call based on that one average that an ANC represents. So if that were the case, you know, for this particular question, then your job is to come with the records that suggest Hey, you know, we're doing really well, I my kid is in multiple sports, he has all the enjoyment of life that he could possibly need. We're doing this, you know, look at our records, we have, you know, 1%, low blood sugars, and they're not lower than 60. And, you know, my kid is not sitting out because we don't want his blood sugar to move. I think those are the explanations that in your mind, you're living them. So you may not have to verbalize them. But to somebody who's just looking at one number, you may have to just explain, hey, we're good.

Scott Benner 31:47
I think you have to have the wherewithal, it's tough to because can you imagine putting all this effort into something maybe for six months. And then you're finally like, this is my day, the person who judges me is going to be happy, then that judge the person is not happy. And it probably throws you off for a second. But I would just be like, Hey, let me stop you here, I get what you're saying. I see that you think it must be I 24/7 I must be staring at this thing. And like, you know, turning knobs and everything. But that's not we're not at that spot. Like it's just going well for us. We seem to know how to use the insulin and how to cover food and activity and we're doing great and so appreciate your, you know, yeah, right. But yeah, gonna be careful. If you're listening to this. Some of you before you can get that out of your mouth, they're gonna snatch the pump from you and start turning dials to take your insulin away to make your blood sugar higher. And then that's a and Jenny, I'm gonna use some colloquial language here. That's a mindfuck of its own. Okay, because now the doctors like let's make your agency higher. Because, right, you're gonna have a really horrible low or you're going to burn out. And everybody's not the same. Like, I appreciate that. Maybe you've met other people who have burned out doing this. That's not our situation. I have a bigger grasp of this. Yeah, right. Right.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 33:02
This might be kind of like a blanket statement. But quite honestly, any doctor who takes your pump from you to turn the knobs and dials, that is somebody to not stay with it. Really, it is, again, my personal opinion. Because to me, my devices, they're like a piece of my body. Right? That's like removing my arm and fiddling with it to make the muscle bigger, because you want it to look bigger, right? Don't Don't take my body part. If you think I should change something, I'll bring up my settings, we can talk about it. And I may make that adjustment. But I'm going to do it myself. Because one, I use this product every single day. I push the buttons by myself all the time. Don't push my buttons for me. Right? Right. That's a really big discussion to have. Because I think it's very unfair, somebody to take something from you that You very well know how to use.

Scott Benner 33:58
And if you don't know how to use it. And they do that. Now you don't know what happened. They probably don't know how what happened. They did either by the way. They're just like, let's see what this does. And now you're both lost, because you were already wasn't going well. Now you've changed something else. If it doesn't fix it. How do you even know where you moved from? Or what did you next?

Jennifer Smith, CDE 34:16
Or why it was fixed? Yeah. Why did you adjust this versus that? You

Scott Benner 34:21
made me think of something? Not to the question. But I'm going to talk about here. I think this is really interesting. Something about the way you just talked about don't take that from me. You're changing my thoughts. I realized like, like, you're basically saying to someone give me this thing that we've attached to you and I am going to decide what's about to happen to your body next. Right? And you won't know because I did it like so the unknown that so I never thought of it that way. Isn't it interesting? I've never ever thought about that way once. If I take Arden's pump from her and I go hey, I'm just going to do this. That's why adult type ones say things like Does she know you made that change is that Okay, it's about autonomy. It's not about Oh, right. It's not about diabetes at all.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 35:07
Oh, wow. Yeah. Because I think, you know, again, life with what is now almost 36 years with type one, I very much feel like my products are part of me. That's a weird thing. Because there are I call them like, my boys always have called them like my robot parts, right? But they even somebody who has a prosthetic limb, for example, like I would never, ever, as a provider, ask somebody if I can take their body part from them to check it out? Like no, that's, that's, it's the same thing for somebody with diabetes feeling

Scott Benner 35:43
that, like it would be as if, if I said to you, hey, give me your insulin pump Jenny, and I'm going to decide to make you 10% happier, or I'm going to make you 15% More aggressive, or less emotional, or like, oh, that's got to be the same weird feeling you have if you go on like an SSRI, and people talk about like, I don't feel my highs or lows anymore in that like, weird, disconnected feeling like you put this thing in your mouth, and then all of a sudden, you experience the world differently. Correct. Okay, well, this seems like a thing that I probably should have recognized 15 years ago. But I made a note to talk to Eric about I think this is a lovely, lovely concept to go deeper into with a therapist. That would be great to hear really interesting. Okay, look at us learning. Well, me, you are probably just, I always tell Erica, when we're doing stuff that every episode should be called. Watch Erica, watch Scott realize something that was taught in freshman psychology that he doesn't know.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 36:43
Because Scott wasn't paying attention. I

Scott Benner 36:45
wasn't even there. I just had that feeling now, like you might have been looking at me like, yes, really never occurred to you. How about you? Okay. All right. Here's the question. Why don't we just tattoo this on people's foreheads? Oh, I hear this so much. What are the long term consequences of having too many low blood sugars? I hear there is a cognitive impact. But I don't know more. But it seems like it's not discussed enough. Seems like it's not as discussed as much as the consequences of higher blood sugars. So what are the long term effects of hypoglycemia? And every time we try to talk about this, the problem ends up very similar, right, like there, first of all, are no long term studies. There's no, right. That's

Jennifer Smith, CDE 37:27
the hard thing. Yeah, it really is. I get this question a lot, actually, again, with the women that I work with in pregnancy, we focus heavily on highs similar to outside of that right outside of pregnancy. But a lot of the doctors also focus on spending too much time low. Okay, then, yes, we could address that. But unfortunately, in terms of studies, there are not numerous published studies about the long term impact of low blood sugars on the cognitive function then of the child Once born, right. And the studies that are there actually define define the the number of lows under a blood sugar of 50 as being the resultant reason for cognitive impairment or assumed connection of cognitive impairment. And so when we're looking at, like, when you're living with a blood sugar 55, that's, you shouldn't bottom line, you should die. Don't do it. Don't do that. But again, the studies aren't, they're suggesting, oh, a blood sugar of 68. That sucks sustained, is that creating long term, there's nothing to prove that it isn't. But there's really nothing to prove that it is, in fact, that's a many people without diabetes, wake up with a blood sugar somewhere between 65 and 95. Right?

Scott Benner 38:46
It would be inhumane to take a control group of people drive their blood sugar down with manmade insulin, keep it there, and then wait to see if it gives them problems. That's why you're not going to see a study about that. Right. And everything else is, you know, to some point up for interpretation, because you can say to somebody like I'm seeing a cognitive decline in you. Did you have a lot of lows when you were young? Like, you know, I mean, what are you going to do? That's not a thing you can really track? So we know, it's 70 the number that we just know, you're okay. Up above it. Like, is that just the

Jennifer Smith, CDE 39:20
why it's the bottom line? Yeah, that's really and you know, in terms of long term, I think we need more long term studies because some of the information that is out there, like if you go to CDC and some of the other, you know, general research reporting kind of databases, they have low blood sugars, in terms of frequency of them length of them over and over types of effect, leading to the potential for a risk of dementia later in life or the earlier onset of dementia. And again, a lot of them also are done in type two diabetes, but blood sugar to blood sugar Diabetes, diabetes, so we kind of put them all in St. Pat's. Are

Scott Benner 40:04
you willing to tell people what number you worry for yourself? Like, where do you go, Oh, I can't let this be.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 40:11
Huh, I'm comfortable. But I think it also, I like to be above 65. That's a, again, an easy statement. If I am sitting and working at my desk, if I'm sitting in like, doing not much reading a book or whatever, and I'm sitting at 68. And it's a nice flat, stable 68, I'm gonna leave it alone. Like, why am I going to do something about that, because I also, and maybe in the past on more of a manual pump, maybe I would have knowing what's coming in the hours ahead, done something correctively. But now that I have an algorithm AI D algorithm based system, it's really not gonna honestly even sit there long, because I've got my target set above that, and it should be kind of bias

Scott Benner 40:56
a little way, it's gonna let you write some natural body function is going to bring your blood sugar back up. And

Jennifer Smith, CDE 41:01
I think because we have enough of those on the market, regardless of the system that you're using, I think all of them are very conservative in terms of the low blood sugar values that, you know, to sit there for a lengthy period of time, likely not going to happen with most of these systems. And a lot of people are still in the know about, well, my blood sugar is dropping, I need to treat it and with an AI D type of system. Do you mean, like, treat it in? It's too hot?

Scott Benner 41:30
I mean, I guess I'll share too. For Arden, I think a lot of it is about I don't want her to get dizzy. Right? That's sort of the way I feel about it. And, of course, so much about it is also just like you said, it's direction like is this a very stable number that's not moving? Is it never gonna go down from here, because there's no insulin on board. That makes a big difference to you know, if I see again, on an algorithm, if I see art and dip below 70 into that, like mid 60s range, I'll just wait and see what happens. I'll go look, and I'll be like, Oh, this thing already knew this was gonna happen. It's been taking basil away for 20 minutes. And so, you know, I think in the next couple of, you know, the next couple of checks, it's going to start to head back up again, based on what I know, but also know that CGM is are still a little behind reality. And so like, there's I don't know how to say that this makes me feel better. When I see the 65. I think, well, it's not 65. Now, it was a few minutes ago, maybe right? And everything I'm looking at makes me feel like it's heading in the right direction. Now, if I saw 65, and everything I was looking at made me feel like it was going to keep going lower than I would react and

Jennifer Smith, CDE 42:43
he would, yeah, absolutely. And I have to say, you know, in terms of asking about like a target, I would say I have targets also based on certain scenarios in my day, right? If I'm heading out to go and do something with my boys in the afternoon, or whatever, I have numbers above which I would really prefer to be or a stability place that I would prefer to be. From a driving perspective, I always like to be at least 80. Yeah. So there are some, I guess adjustments to where I would navigate and make an adjustment to get my blood sugar to start coming up. Yeah, even if I didn't have my algorithm system. So

Scott Benner 43:23
I want to say if Jenny's number sounds like if you heard 80, and you were like, cute lady. Just think of it as aspirational. That's really how I think of the whole podcast, like, if you're not there, just know that that's possible. And then get as close to it as you can and are comfortable with like that, to me is how to think about this stuff. And

Jennifer Smith, CDE 43:43
he's done. You know, I've worked with a number of people, not just guys, but people who are in construction, right? There are some places that you may have to navigate your targets, especially again, if you're eating a typical, like diet, right intake, that we may have to adjust your targets from an overall safety standpoint, so that you don't get that like that dizziness, or that sort of fumbling with your fingers or lack of cognition, you know, to be able to actually 10 stories up in the air. You're watching on the steel beam, right? You're sitting at

Scott Benner 44:18
a desk talking to people about diabetes, so you can just be like, I'm gonna have a sip of juice right now. And you know, and if you get woozy, you're gonna fall off of your stool, not off of a, you know, a building, right? So right, it makes sense. Couple of quick ones here. This is an easy one. How close is too close for a CGM and a pump site to be together? Oh,

Jennifer Smith, CDE 44:37
that's a good question. Most of the systems they suggest about five inches three to five inches is what I what I know. Do I know people wear them closer without any issue? I do. Do I know that? We in our own office space have tried wearing them closer just to see absolutely we have and from our my personal This is not Linux, from my personal experience doesn't seem to matter without. I've worn them close together, especially when I was using when I trialed and was using Omnipod five, because of that very important piece that they sort of hammer into you is that line of sight, right? So I followed all the rules, I was a sheep, I followed them to a tee initially. And really, like I had that that sensor sight on and I kind of moved my pad around that sensor pretty close so that it would always have that direct line of sight. Again, I really didn't pay attention to the three to five inch distance because yeah, what's realistic? actually sat around like

Scott Benner 45:45
that goes where it goes. I don't know, I'm not speaking for anybody specifically, I just know that what they have to tell you in the literature is what they tested during the FDA trial. So Correct. Yes. doesn't always mean it won't work. i The example I will always use is that you're not supposed to use a Peter in an insulin pump. But we've been doing it for like, 10 years. So

Jennifer Smith, CDE 46:07
correct. And you're in a pod? Yeah. I mean, a piedras should absolutely not be used in the tandem pumps.

Scott Benner 46:14
There's doesn't isn't it interesting there. It doesn't work in an omni pod. It's fine. It does. Except it's not FDA approved for that. Correct. Right. Yeah. Which means that on the pod never tried a Piedra in the pumping testing.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 46:28
Right. They just said don't use it. Yeah. They said,

Scott Benner 46:31
We don't have the money to test that. So go to hell.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 46:37
We can't test this piece.

Scott Benner 46:38
time or the money for your pager, which none of you are using except Scott and five other people. So yeah, by the way, you should try it. It's pretty good. Do you? Are you real tight on time? Are we can I have like 510 minutes? I'm gonna give you one last one that okay. I just don't know that there's an answer to oh, how do you train your type one kid to wake up for a Hypo? Oh,

Unknown Speaker 47:00
do you wake up for your hypose? I do. What happens? alarms,

Scott Benner 47:07
you feel it? Jesus talk to you what happens? Exactly because of

Jennifer Smith, CDE 47:11
so alarms? I think a lot of it may or may have some relevance. I mean, adulthood. I'm also a mom, think once your mom and a feather on the floor wakes you up? So quite honestly. Right? Exactly. Like I used for children. I slept, I could have slept, the train could have taken half the house off. And I was like dead to the world. Outside of my alarms, my alarms, I always have woken to my alarms, right? I from a, I guess from a maybe what my brain remembers, I try like on a monthly basis to change the alert sound, a different sound to a different sound so that it's always something different. That's waking me up, right? I also have the volume turned up so that I can hear it from kiddo standpoint. Kids sleep hard. If you've ever got I mean, most people who have kids who have diabetes, go in and have a problem even like waking their kid enough to like, drink part of a juice box or whatever. Some don't even wake their kid they can like put the juice box in and they just suck and they like fall back. And they're

Speaker 1 48:18
still asleep, essentially. A banana in her sleep. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So

Jennifer Smith, CDE 48:23
So it tells you in this question, it tells you how hard kids sleep. And so I don't know, in terms of training, some of it could be relative to using some of the devices that vibrate isn't a sugar pixel has something that connects to the device that you can slide underneath your pillow and it actually vibrates along with the very alarming noise that goes off i That's the sugar pixel, right. Is that sugar pixel? I

Scott Benner 48:52
believe so. Yeah. Like this little vibrating pad. Listen, there's all kinds of things you can try. Here's what I learned. I raised the kid from two years old to she's just about 20. She didn't wake up for anything. It didn't matter. It was on us. Like, right. She left for college, and half of me thought she'll be dead in three days. Like yeah, like, I mean, what's gonna we're gonna leave this. We're gonna hear anything. Oh, she should be dead by Thursday. You know, and what she reports back to me is that once she knew it was on her, she wakes up. And I was I don't know if that's a maturity thing or and now having said that, there have been, I mean, she's been she's half almost completely done her sophomore year. Wow. In college, and there are in the last two years, I'm gonna guess probably 2025 times I've had to wake her up. Sure. You know, like, I've had to call her and be like a Arden you're low. And she's dead. But and trust me, it's this. Hey, Arden. Your love. Low L oh, you're low juice. Drink get juice. Okay. But then she I'm like, stay on the phone. I'll be okay. And then she hangs up, then I sit there in a panic for 10 Min. Like, did she fall by? Numbers? Yeah. Drink the juice? I don't know, what I would tell you is, I don't know how you train somebody to do that, like, people are different in any mean. They

Jennifer Smith, CDE 50:20
are you can try many things. I mean, it's almost like, you know, like the potty train. I like the overnight potty train. Let

Scott Benner 50:25
me throw Cheerios at them when they're little kids, right? Some

Jennifer Smith, CDE 50:28
kids just get it pretty easily. And other kids, you really have to wake them up, like every couple of hours, right? Or the alarm is going off. You hear the alarm? And you know, maybe the training is that you go in the room and you put the alarm right by their ear. I mean, these are all like, I don't know, option as

Scott Benner 50:46
an adult. Have you ever woken up in the morning looking at your CGM and been like, Oh, my God, I was late last night? I had no idea. I'm gonna say yes. But you don't recall it.

Jennifer Smith, CDE 50:55
But I don't recall it. And again, low defined on a term of I was low. Now with an algorithm for like, you know, seven plus years? No, probably before that. Yes. Yeah, absolutely. Before there was anything. Yes. Now I also have a husband who is also a lighter sleeper. And so he hears my alarm.

Scott Benner 51:20
Wake up, wake up. Yeah, I have to tell you, I've had probably three times in my life, woken up in the morning thought, Oh, my God, I slept all night. It's great. To get on my phone. I'm looking through things. And you see that overnight for like 45 minutes Arden's budget or was like 40. And you think, Oh, my God, I didn't know that at all. That's crazy. And then the first thing you do is you look to see if she's still reporting a blood sugar. Because if she is she still alive? And like, Oh, my God, so I get that, like feeling that leg. I slept through it. It's my fault. We're all gonna die. Like, like that feeling. But I just overall, I have not found it to be that much of a concern. I think the most comforting thing I can say that with a lot of planning, don't get me wrong. Right. Yeah. But putting the right things in the right order. It hasn't been that much of an issue. If you don't do all those things. It's obviously could be a huge problem. Yeah. You know, I assume that people will say the show are putting a lot of effort into this stuff. So they

Jennifer Smith, CDE 52:19
are I mean, from what I've heard and seen, and with all the questions that always come in like this, there's a lot of, especially for parents of kids think there's a lot of consideration, you have Forward Look, you're saying yes, I'm doing this now. I'm happy to do it. I'm the parent, they're my child, I will 100% Do this for them. But at some point, they're not going to want to be here with me. Right? Some point they're going to want to be at a friend's house or a sporting event over a weekend or something that I'm not going to be there. Yeah. And I have to be able to have confidence that they're going to be able to acknowledge an alarm or an alert, I understand it. Absolutely. I

Scott Benner 53:00
would say to you're going to feel like that's not fair. The world's not fair. You're gonna have all those feelings. You gotta get past that because this just is what it is. So I appreciate that. Okay. Well, I appreciate you sharing all of your thoughts with me today. Thank you very much.

Unknown Speaker 53:15
Yes, thank you. I'll talk to you soon.

Scott Benner 53:25
Mark is an incredible example of what so many experience living with diabetes, you show up for yourself and others every day, never letting diabetes to find you. And that is what the Medtronic champion community is all about. Each of us is strong, and together, we're even stronger. To hear more stories from the Medtronic champion community where to share your own story. Visit Medtronic diabetes.com/juice box. A huge thank you to one of today's sponsors, GE voc glucagon. Find out more about Chivo Capo pen at G voc glucagon.com. Ford slash juicebox. They spell that GVOKEGLUC AG o n.com. Forward slash juice box. Arden has been getting her diabetes supplies from us med for three years. You can as well us med.com/juice box or call 888-721-1514 My thanks to us med for sponsoring this episode and for being longtime sponsors of the Juicebox Podcast. There are links in the show notes and links at juicebox podcast.com to us Med and all of the sponsors. If you have type two or pre diabetes, that type two diabetes Pro Tip series from the Juicebox Podcast is exactly what you're looking for. Do you have a friend or a family member who is struggling to understand their type two and how to manage it? This series is for them seven episodes to get you on track and up to speed In episode 860 series intro 864 guilt and shame, Episode 869 medical team 874 fuelling plan, Episode 880 diabetes technology episode 85 GLP ones metformin and insulin, and an episode 889 We talk about movement. This episode is with me and Jenny Smith. Of course, you know Jenny is a Certified diabetes Care and Education Specialist. She's a registered and licensed dietitian, and Jenny has had type one diabetes for over 30 years. Too many people don't understand their type two diabetes, and this series aims to fix that. Share it with a friend or get started today. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast. The episode you just heard was professionally edited by wrong way recording.

Unknown Speaker 55:52
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