#891 After Dark: Survivors Guilt

Ashton has type 1 diabetes and she feels that drug use in her extended family is impacting her health.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 891 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Today's show is interesting. It begins with Ashton, who is the type one experiencing a low blood sugar. So we sort of just chit chat through her Lo, until the show kind of starts off properly. It takes us a little bit of time to get to why she's here today. But once we get to it, my goodness, what a story. Today's guest is here because she believes that people in her extended family, their troubles and turmoil are causing her problems with her blood sugar. I don't want to ruin the surprise but very specifically, there seems to be a lot of drinking and drug use in her extended family. And anyway, I think we get to something after a while, which is why the title is after dark survivor's guilt and not after dark cocaine use. So you really got to listen to this will unfold. It's something else. While you're listening. Please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan or becoming bold with insulin. This show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries G voc hypo penne Find out more at G voc glucagon.com. Forward slash Juicebox Podcast is also sponsored today by Dexcom. Now Dexcom makes the G six and G seven brand new G seven continuous glucose monitoring system. Arden has tried the g7 we've ordered it and it's arrived waiting for her in a little box right there at college for her to use up her last two g SIX sensors before she switches over and she's very excited. Dex comm.com forward slash juice box check them out at my link when you do you're supporting the podcast

Ashton 2:16
blade right now but

Scott Benner 2:18
you're fine. Do you want me to? I can stop the recording till you feel better if you like.

Ashton 2:23
Oh no, I'll be okay. Okay. I just I just started to go down. So

Scott Benner 2:27
okay, where do you? Where did you where do you do? Well, I guess do you have a CGM? How did you know you're getting low?

Ashton 2:36
I have the FreeStyle Libre too.

Scott Benner 2:38
Okay, so did you scan it before you started here? Or did you feel though,

Ashton 2:43
I started to feel low, and I scanned it and I was 4.2 going straight down. So

Scott Benner 2:50
Gotcha. Where do you start to feel your lows?

Ashton 2:54
I actually start to feel them around four and a half. Like 4.5.

Scott Benner 3:00
I'm gonna just realize and I should probably translate those.

Ashton 3:06
Oh, yeah. Sorry. I mean, Canada.

Scott Benner 3:09
No, no, it's fine. So 4.5 isn't at one. And you feel low there where you are. Do you think yeah, what do you think you were dropping.

Ashton 3:18
I'm dropping pretty good. I didn't eat very much for breakfast as like that I thought I was going to eat. And my daughter had to go outside and play for a little bit first. So we went outside. And of course, I wasn't even thinking and didn't have enough food for breakfast. And then we went outside and played and I came in and I was like, whoa.

Scott Benner 3:45
It's happening faster than I thought it was. Right. So well. Yeah. Well, we'll we'll just take we're not going to start until you're feeling better. So you think you had your Bolus for a meal? Didn't need as much as you thought and then had activity that you weren't counting on?

Ashton 4:01
Yeah, that's exactly it. Is my daughter she she's one or she's 19 months now. So she'll bring us first thing in the morning every morning she brings me or her dad her shoes and outside.

Scott Benner 4:19
Oh, that's good. But now if would you how long ago did you drink this juice?

Ashton 4:26
I just finished it. So can you

Scott Benner 4:28
play a game and scan again and tell me where you're at? Yeah.

Ashton 4:41
Oh, of course my reading is right. I'm using my phone right now. My reading of course is rate in the way of Okay. I'm coming up on 4.5 Now,

Scott Benner 4:55
now. Do you feel low still?

Ashton 5:00
Yes, I still feel pretty low.

Scott Benner 5:03
What are your average blood sugar's during the day?

Ashton 5:08
Oh, gosh, I had them really good until I had my daughter. And since then it has been a complete roller coaster.

Scott Benner 5:17
It's bouncing up and down. Yeah. Do you? Do these lows feel different than they did when you were pregnant?

Ashton 5:25
Yes, definitely. When I was pregnant, I actually didn't feel the lows quite so severely.

Scott Benner 5:34
Is that because you're bouncing around as much do you think?

Ashton 5:37
I think so. I pregnancy was lovely. I hardly felt like I was diabetic because I didn't like I was level pretty much the whole way until near the end, then my insulin needs shot right up. Okay. But yeah, they're pretty steady throughout pregnancy. And before for a couple years before pregnancy, my a one C was 6.5. So around 6.5, it didn't get any higher than 6.8.

Scott Benner 6:14
How do you come up? How do you come to that number? Is it? Do you have a like? I guess my question is, do you have a lot of stability around 120? Oh, geez. Around

Ashton 6:27
20 is, I think eight

Scott Benner 6:31
is so so 120 is like Oh 6.7 6.7 for you? It's an A one? Yeah, then that'd be an A one save about 5.8. So let's go to like 145, which would be about a six, seven or an 8.1 is do you have a ton of stability there or are you high and then low and high and then low all day.

Ashton 6:51
I'm right now high and low, all day. And before pregnant, before being pregnant, I was steady. Like, I wouldn't, you know, shoot up a little bit, but I could get it back down and stabilize it. And I would only I don't know, once twice a week is where I would shoot up and but it always came down nice and easy. But it seems like with all the stress going on and everything, I shoot straight up, I take a little bit of insulin. And then you know something happens with my daughter or you know, I just get busy with life and I don't eat or I'll forget to take insulin or I'm just kind of riding the roller coaster. I've been talking with my endocrinologist and my diabetic educator lately. And we're trying to make a plan like my educator told me like, Well, why don't you wear a fanny pack and have your insulin on you all the time? And I've been trying that, but I'm still having complete highs and lows lately.

Scott Benner 8:13
So do you use are you injecting your insulin or do you have a pump?

Ashton 8:17
I inject right now. I've always been MD mi MDI, sorry, no, you're fine. I, I've been diabetic for 17 years. Okay. Almost 18 And I've been MD MDI the whole time. How old are you? I am 27. I'll be 28. January,

Scott Benner 8:38
you were like around nine years old and you're diagnosed.

Ashton 8:41
I was it was actually a month after my 10th birthday birthday that I was diagnosed.

Scott Benner 8:51
Who is kind of interesting. This isn't even what we're talking about. And I'm just trying to chat with you until your until you feel like you're nice and stable. Yeah. So there's a disconnect between having the insulin with you when you need it. And and that causes some of the highs that then maybe later cause lows?

Ashton 9:16
Yeah, I'm thinking so like getting my daughter ready to eat her supper. And then I'll sit down, eat supper and I'm like, Whoa, what am I doing? I need to go take insulin. And so my timing of my insulin is way off right now.

Scott Benner 9:33
And that's where the bouncing around is coming from.

Ashton 9:36
I think so. Okay. All right. Well,

Scott Benner 9:41
that's it I mean, at least you know, what's happening and then I guess it's about correcting the

Ashton 9:46
Yeah, it's kind of a me problem at this point.

Scott Benner 9:51
It's gonna say Right, like, yeah, like starting a new habit or so. So what happened when you were pregnant? You just didn't have a lot of insulin need or you were just very focused on it.

Ashton 10:01
Um, well, I was very focused on it. But I honestly didn't have a lot of insulin needs until my third trimester. I like I could take two units for a plate of spaghetti in the beginning of my pregnancy. And that's actually how I found out I was pregnant was I could not keep my blood sugar's up.

Scott Benner 10:25
Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. So you didn't need to spend the money on the pregnancy test. And that's great.

Ashton 10:34
No, my endocrinologist. We were trying to figure out why kept going into these lows, and she was going to do adrenal testing on me. She was thinking maybe I had adrenal insufficiency or something. And then she called me the one day she's like, I never thought could you possibly be pregnant? And I thought about it. And I was like, You know what? I could probably be. Yeah. So we found out when I was eight weeks pregnant that

Scott Benner 11:05
Oh, no kidding. First, baby. Yes. Yeah. First one. Congratulations.

Ashton 11:11
We weren't planning but we weren't preventing either.

Scott Benner 11:17
Yeah, that's so that's about how that goes. I think a lot of the times, yeah. Just tell me if you feel okay. And we'll start. Although I'm feeling a lot better now. Better. Are you okay, for keeping this bit of the conversation in the final show? Word would you prefer? Yeah. Yeah, sure. Oh, cool. All right. Well, in. I mean, I feel like people know you a little bit. But go ahead, introduce yourself very quickly. Usually, I would tell you before we start recording, you don't need to use your last name. And, you know, just in you already told him told us a lot about yourself. So I guess just tell me your name, and then we'll keep talking.

Ashton 11:52
Okay, if my name is Ashton, I'm from Northwest Alberta, Canada. Um

Scott Benner 12:03
it's it Northwest. Yeah. Do you already said how long you've had diabetes and when you were diagnosed and everything so Alberta?

Ashton 12:08
Yeah. I guess I could add that my dad is a diabetic type one diabetic as well. He was diagnosed. seven years, eight years before me. Oh, no kidding. So yeah, I was three when he was diagnosed.

Scott Benner 12:26
Do you know about how old he was at that time?

Ashton 12:28
Oh, he would have been it was. It was actually on my parents wedding night. That from all the cake and booze and whatever. He got really sick and had to go into the hospital that night. I'm gonna say he was around 2728.

Scott Benner 12:47
No kidding. And is there any other like type one or autoimmune stuff in your family line?

Ashton 12:55
No. Well, my grandma on my dad, like my dad's mother and her mother. So my great grandma. They both had thyroid issues a little bit like, I don't that they never really told me. But what was that? But yeah, they had some thyroid issues.

Scott Benner 13:16
Okay, so then Yeah, so there's something going on. But you're so do you have you ever heard the story from your father like in hindsight that he think it was Did he can he see that it was coming on and he just that Oh,

Ashton 13:30
my dad thinks he was diabetic from the time he was a young child, because he would get this He told me he'd get this awful feeling and he would just need to run around and you know, burn off what he figures with burn off the shoulder. And he was always sick. My grandma was constantly taking him to the hospital. Even couple years before he would get so sick, he couldn't move, hardly go to the hospital. Nothing nothing. And I don't remember Oh, I guess it was just because he was the doctor figures because he would go home after work and he always would drink rum and coke. And the doctor figures that rum and coke kinda would balance them out at the end of the day.

Scott Benner 14:30
I don't know I should if rum and coke fix type one diabetes and don't you think no.

Ashton 14:36
Like for the months up leading up to his diagnosis getting? Yeah,

Scott Benner 14:43
I mean, that's strange. I mean, listen, I I'm not a doctor, but you can't stay alive for 20 Some years with type one diabetes without insulin. So maybe he was like, I mean, something sounds like it was definitely happening with his health for sure. And

Ashton 14:57
yeah, he he doesn't think die. Diabetes unnecessarily, but he thinks there was some autoimmune trigger that happened when he was younger and it just kind of snowballed.

Scott Benner 15:11
I guess that's interesting. I mean, it's, it's I mean, it's, it's odd. And it's interesting for sure. Okay, so tell me a little bit about why you wanted to come on the show.

Ashton 15:22
Okay, I wanted to come on, because I have some family members then that are addicted to cocaine. I'm so growing up my family, it like we're all really close. My dad, his brother's two sons are my two cousins were the only three kids on that side of the family. So we were always really close. My mom watched my two cousins all the time. And they were more like my brothers. And one of them got addicted to cocaine at 16 years old, I believe. So how long ago was that? That would have been about 15 years ago, okay. And so we struggled with him. And my dad's cousin, he's closer to me and my cousin, sage, the one who was addicted to cocaine. And he was also addicted. So I had two cousins that are addicted. So we were dealing with that. constantly worried about them. And now my we're not married, but I call my husband, his brother, who I've known for 20 years close or close to it. Has, he is addicted to cocaine as well. And it's just we find it pretty hard. Dealing with it because it's like my brother, and then my brother in law being addicted to

Scott Benner 17:11
a lot of people that you care about.

Ashton 17:13
Yeah. And now that we have our daughter, I have no siblings. And so and his little brother are my two siblings, basically. And then Tom, only my, my husband, Tom only has his brothers.

Scott Benner 17:35
Ashley, let me say something before we keep going. You probably shouldn't say other people's names. Oh, sorry. Don't worry about it. Don't I'm just so I'm gonna go back later. And I'll remove. But like, Okay, moving forward. My cousin. Yeah, my brother and my. Yeah. Sorry, no, no, don't be.

Ashton 17:58
So now with our daughter having our daughter here. We wanted them to have we wanted her to have her uncles. And we were all we're both my husband and my families were all really tight knit families. So it meant a lot of a lot to us that our daughter was going to have her uncles. And they just really haven't been a big part of her life or anything. But relating that to the diabetes. So we say get a call from my brother in law. And he's find some reason to get mad at you. And then he will not leave you alone. And he'll just go on and on and take deep digs at you and it shoots my blood sugar rate up. As soon as I see that he called me or texted me and he wasn't in a good my mindset. And my blood sugar would still shoot straight up. And I think that's half of my roller coaster too, is I get a message from my cousin or my brother in law. And I know that they're in a bad way. My blood sugar shoots straight up. So I take insulin to try and bring it down and everything but it just I'll come down and then he'll say something that'll piss me off and I'll shoot right back up.

Scott Benner 19:42
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is it a mixture of anger and sadness? And adrenaline? Or?

Ashton 22:47
I think it's anger? I think yes, I think it's all three of those things. Because I don't know I get so worked up, I will start just shaking and like ready to punch a wall? Almost.

Scott Benner 23:02
Tell me Tell me. I mean, what what is it about? I mean, obviously, let me start my thought over. Obviously that's upsetting, right? Like your loved ones that are struggling with something, it's upsetting. But they're not you and they're not your they're not your husband, and they're not your kid. So when I want to understand, like, what happens when you are kind of faced with their problem? Is it like what happens inside of you that you care so much that it's affecting you like that?

Ashton 23:36
I don't know. I think it's just the fact that I grew up with them all. And I know, I know them as people, the people, they are not the addict. I know who they can be without the addiction. And I think that is part of what works me up and the fact that I can't do anything.

Scott Benner 24:02
Okay. So a feeling of helplessness and and then that feeling that that they're wasting their life for and then you feel badly about that. I imagine.

Ashton 24:16
Yeah, well, and another reason I feel so badly about it is because when I was in end of high school there, I was about 17 The first time I tried cocaine and I had done it on and off for four or five years. And I never really got the addiction to it. I mean I I would go out and do it for fun and whatever. But I could go months without doing it. And then they do it a couple times and they get addicted. And I'm also very upset with myself. You Because I remember both of them would say, don't tell my girlfriend you saw me today. Don't tell me don't tell them I was here. Don't tell them this. And I just kept my mouth shut because they, the girlfriends didn't ask me anything. So I just kept my mouth shut and kind of almost protected them. And now, yes, it really bothers me now that I, I feel like for 10 years, I basically lied for them.

Scott Benner 25:39
I see. And now and now their situation is so bad off that you almost feel like you're a party to it.

Ashton 25:48
Yes. And I mean, I'm not in my auntie and uncle situation, or my father in law's situation, or I'm not the like, I'm not my husband situation where it's his brother. Or, and, or sorry, my cousin is like my brother. So that really gets to me. And then my cousin's little brother has also started.

Scott Benner 26:22
What is going on in Alberta? When they say it's not when they're saying when they say it's snowing there? I thought they meant like, you know, both both. Yeah, goodness. So tell me a little bit about everybody's background, like just generally speaking, is it? Is this a? Does it start as a party thing? Does it go from drinking to cocaine? And then some? Yeah,

Ashton 26:53
I would say I would say it's a party thing. But my cousin, so in my family, there is addictions all over the place, mostly alcohol. But there's cigarettes and drugs. And sorry, my cousin had a learning disability. Okay. And his dad was pretty hard on him growing up. So I don't know if that was his way of get escaping from his father and how hard his dad was on him growing up. Because that's the other thing. My dad and my uncle lost their brother, when my cousin who is addicted to drugs has when he was born. My father and uncle lost their brother due to I don't know the story. But I hear he was murdered by bad people.

Scott Benner 28:10
Do you think that was drug related as well?

Ashton 28:13
See, I don't know. Because from what my dad has told me, my uncle was a thief. He just stole stuff just because he got off on it. Okay. And so it's hard to say if it was he stole from the wrong person, or it was drug related, or they don't really talk about it. I think it hurts them quite a bit to talk about it. And we, me and my cousins, we do ask once in a while, but we don't cry about it.

Scott Benner 28:50
So is this? Well, is it systemic through your family? Is it systemic through the area? Like we, like we have conversations like this, there's obviously other other afterdark episodes, people come out and talk about, you know, heroin, and they're like, oh, where I live? It's everywhere. Like they talk about that. And so, I mean, it's like, I guess where do I start? Like these people you're talking about? Do they work?

Ashton 29:15
Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah, everyone goes to work. And my cousin, he, our, he just went back to work. He's actually been sober for two and a half, three months now. So he just went back to work, but he got to the point where he had lost his job and was sitting at home for months and got depressed and he is best friends with my brother in law, too. And my brother in law got really bad. He would do the drugs and hallucinate and telling us his girlfriend was fake. And I don't know what how happened. I haven't had a chance to talk to either of them about it. But something happened where my brother in law had to freak out. And that's what caused my cousin to start. Decide he needed to get sober.

Scott Benner 30:18
So something happened so crazy that one of them was like, I'm done with this. Yeah.

Ashton 30:25
And my husband and brother in law, they lost their mother when they were 10 and 12. Okay. So I don't know if that's where my brother in law's problems stem from? I think he didn't deal with it the same way my husband did. Okay, and is there

Scott Benner 30:50
a lot of poverty? or No? Where do you? How do you think of how do you think of these people? Do you think of them is? Middle class do you think of them is, you know, middle class, middle middle class people who are making a reasonable living like, do they own a home? As an example? Yeah.

Ashton 31:09
My brother in law, he owns a home in the so we live out in the country. He owns a home in the town close to us. But he was lately he's been struggling with bills and everything. So he actually got the opportunity to rent his house out. And he moved back out here with his dad. My father in law

Scott Benner 31:36
is pardon. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off. Go ahead.

Ashton 31:41
Oh, I was just gonna say, I think like we everyone makes decent money like yes, hard times right now. But everyone has enough to live and it just goes around our area. It's just stupid. Like, I could walk down the street, and probably point out seven people who I've seen dude, cocaine.

Scott Benner 32:06
If Ashley, if I looked at them, would I know? Like just looking? Could I make a snap judgment? Or? Or is it kind of hidden?

Ashton 32:15
I'm with my cousin. It is hidden. With my brother in law. It's fairly hidden. But you can tell when he's been, you know, he went and partied all night last night. By looking at him. You could just tell his eyes are just huge, but droopy. And his face just will look gray and just basically like deaths,

Scott Benner 32:45
okay. I don't want to know where they work. But what kind of worked the people in your area? Like what kind of work is done in that area? I guess. A lot of oil

Ashton 32:57
field. Okay. Like my husband? Is it Equipment Operator building the leases and whatnot. My brother in law's an equipment operator. My cousin is an equipment operator. Mostly working in oil field, but they do some for farmers and stuff and they do reclamation where they put everything back to the way it was before they started working there.

Scott Benner 33:31
Okay. Hard work. Long hours outdoors, that kind of stuff.

Ashton 33:36
Yeah. I would say 14 hour days minimum. Okay. No, most days, not every day. But most

Scott Benner 33:44
days. It's the kind of job where back in the day, decades ago, it was like go to work. Then we go to the bar kind of thing. Yes. Okay. And now we're going to the bar we're drinking but we're also doing coke. Yeah. Okay. And, and so tell me if you don't mind. You said you did it as well, when you were younger. So yep. Tell me the attraction for you back then.

Ashton 34:15
Honestly, for me, it was just the fact that, you know, once I was feeling drunk, I could do a bomb. And I would have my together again, wouldn't feel so drunk that I needed to go to sleep.

Scott Benner 34:36
So that you keep drinking.

Ashton 34:38
Yeah, basically. Okay.

Scott Benner 34:41
Do you consider yourself an alcoholic?

Ashton 34:44
Um, I used to when I was, you know, from the time I was 18 till I was 21 I would say probably three or four times a week I would Have a drink?

Scott Benner 35:01
Blackout drinking or just

Ashton 35:03
No, no, no, I I've actually only been blackout drunk once in my life. And never again.

Scott Benner 35:10
What what do you think at that early age? I mean, listen, this isn't like, you're obviously not the first teenager to drink, right? But yeah, what do you think how

Ashton 35:19
and where I am? 18 is the legal age. Okay,

Scott Benner 35:23
but what? What drives you to it? Is it boredom? Is it fitting in? Is it about, like, a loosening of your attitude? Like, do you know? Can you even know even looking back?

Ashton 35:37
I would say, um, you know, socially. As kids, we'd all oh, let's go out to the bush and start a fire and have some drinks. And boredom. Like you say boredom Thurs? We're in northern Alberta. Like, of course we can do. There's tons of things to do. But everything seems to cost so much. So to to us as kids going and buying, you know, a case of beer and going out and having a fire with all your friends in the bush was it was just, it's a thing that has, like, my parents did it as kids. It's just

Scott Benner 36:23
stuffed holidays around here. Yeah, like local tradition. Almost. Yeah. Yeah. And it builds on itself, then, like, yeah, meaning that, um, meaning that like you, your family does it, and then somebody brings it up, and then happens again, and then your kids do it. And it doesn't seem that wrong to your parents, because they did it. Because even when you're talking about your I don't know if you know this, but it's interesting. You're incredibly upset about what's happened to the people in your life. And you also feel a little responsible. And at the same time, when you speak about it, like the act of using or drinking or anything. There's no contempt in your voice at all. Like you. I think that there's it sounds to me, like, there was there's a wish that, like, Wouldn't it be great if there was a way that we could drink and do some coke, but it wouldn't ruin anybody's life? Am I wrong? Or do I have that?

Ashton 37:25
Well, not the coke part. But I wish. I don't know, I'm not much of a drinker anymore. Okay, since I since I have my daughter, I think I've probably had 10 drinks in total in 19 months. And so I don't, I'm really scared to be hung over with a toddler too. So that's part of the reason, but I just, I don't know, I wish because I know a lot of people who they can't just go sit down at supper and have one drink. Okay, it's, it's you got it. They'll they have they drink to get drunk, they get drunk, they drink to get wasted, basically. And there's so many people around my area that are like that. And I wish it was different. I wish we could go sit down for supper and just, you know, have one drink with our friends and go home. But usually that ends up you know, you have two or three you're feeling good at supper. Well, let's go find something to do afterwards. And I just I guess I wish the people around me could understand that a sober life has been so much more rewarding. Yeah, and easy. I, my brother in law and my cousin, I can't imagine waking up every morning feeling that complete regret. And just feeling disgusting every day. But then doing it again. Yeah, and doing it again. And again.

Scott Benner 39:15
Because that's what you know. Exactly. Right. And see, it's interesting to me. Like when you say like, well, it fills the time or people drink to access or whatever. And this is just what we do. Like, while you're saying that well, and it wouldn't matter if it was you. If anybody said that. I start thinking of all of the other things that I enjoy doing, or the things that I wish I had time to do that I don't even have time to do. And it would never like in a million years it wouldn't occur to me to drink and get drunk. So that I couldn't exist. Like um, but but that's me, right so for other people, it's it's completely opposite. And and you do wonder How many little things stack up before you don't have a chance to have bigger dreams or other ideas? Like what, you know, your parents are hard on you, you live in a depressed area, you know, you're growing up to work in an oil field, like like that kind of like not that there's anything wrong with working in an oil field, but there doesn't feel like there's any other possibility. You're not like, well, I might I've, maybe I'll work in this oil field if I want to, or maybe I'll do these things. And it's just this feeling of like, This is it. Like, I'm here to do this drink. I'll make a baby, that baby will grow up work in this oilfield drink and like, this is what we do. It's not true, by the way. But no, yeah. You feel though, you know?

Ashton 40:46
Yeah. And I don't like for my brother in law. He lost his mom at a very young age. And his aunties, and everyone stepped up. But he's never really had that person to go to to talk about things like, am I stuck in the oil field?

Scott Benner 41:12
Well, that's even if you had somebody to talk to. They're so isolated in this bubble, that, like, you ever heard the saying that, like, you don't know if it's a saying or not, but you can't imagine things you don't know about? Yes. Right. So somebody has to be there. There has to be some example for you to say, Oh, well, I guess I could go do this as well. That's an actual thing that exists. You know, my son just graduated from college. And he's been going around and meeting with people and having conversations with people who work in different like industries, so that he can even understand how his degree applies to the world. So he's got a degree, and he doesn't know what he doesn't know. And so if you don't I mean, if you Yeah. So if you live in a rural area, where the business is pretty specific, I don't know how you're supposed to imagine what's happening right now in I don't know, Billings, Montana, or Atlantic City, New Jersey, or what people do for a living in Miami or Austin? Like, how do you imagine that if you don't know somebody that can explain it to you? And you don't know anybody who's ever gotten the hell out and gone and done one of those things? So there's no storytelling that to help you along? I guess that's, I don't know. Like, I don't know. I'm just talking. So yeah. Does that make sense to you?

Ashton 42:42
It does, yes. Because the other thing around this area that I've noticed, and I'm guilty of it, too. The friends we grew up with are kind of the ones you stick with. Yeah. Most of our lives, like I mean, I of course, I've even in the last year or two, I've gained friends from different towns and stuff. But we all went to the same high school, we all live within 3040 kilometers of each other. And we just, and that's the one thing that we've been trying to tell my brother in law, you need to get away from these people, you need to find someone else. Like we've offered her many times, you know, come out with us, we'll go for a quad ride or back, or, like, just come hang out with us instead of with the same people all the time. Yeah. And, or, you know, even my girlfriend, she she's got really bad anxiety and is having trouble making friends with and she just had a baby, and she's having trouble making friends. So, while we tell her, I tell her, well, let's go to this playgroup that they're holding out here, and maybe we can meet some people out there or it's kind of the same with my brother in law. And my cousin trying to tell them like there is more than just these 10 people out here

Scott Benner 44:19
Yeah. And then you can you can kind of have that feeling like why don't want to go meet those people. Those people are dorks or whatever, like they don't they're not cool like I am or they don't they're not interested in the things I'm in. But I think that those attitudes are probably mostly just you people protecting themselves well, I think what they really think is I don't want to I don't want to drag my coat up as to this playgroup. You don't I mean, and like, you know, yeah, I have all these people judge me, and you know, blah, blah. Like I think that kind of when you when you isolate yourself like that, you can isolate yourself for reasons you tell yourself, but there's probably other reasons you're actually doing it as well. And, and so, so you kind of find yourself in your In your circle, your I guess you kind of process through it already like you did it when you were younger, you're not doing it. Now you have a family, you're like building and you're like, hey, like everybody, like come over here with me where there doesn't have to be craziness and we can just live. But you can't get them to kind of jump on the other side of the fence with you.

Ashton 45:21
Yeah, it's. And I think that might be half of why I get so worked up and so upset about the situation is because I would have been in the same position as them. Yeah, I would have been right there with them. But I found this amazing guy, I started looking after my blood sugar's like, I went into DK over 10 times in my life. I've been in a coma, I've had my shins drilled through in order to get an IV and to me. And when I was about 22 years old, I puked for so long that my stomach lining came up.

Scott Benner 46:16
These are from like, DKA and not not taking care of yourself,

Ashton 46:19
not managing the stomach lining where I brought that a little bit of that up. That was actually from cocaine.

Unknown Speaker 46:27
Okay,

Ashton 46:29
I went out with my cousin. And I did some IR, I actually probably did more than I'd normally would have done. And I came home at midnight, and I puked until about eight in the morning. And I told I called my boyfriend to come get me. He brought me into the hospital. And I ended up being in there for a week. And he came to see me every day after work, he'd come sit with me in the hospital until he had to go home to bed. And I think that's what made made it click was he's not out there doing drugs. Why did I just go do this? And now I'm putting him through seeing me this ill in the hospital.

Scott Benner 47:20
And interesting to me is like the descritto Excuse me. Sorry, I did a bunch of coke before. I'm just kidding. Hold on.

What is interesting to me is that is that I mean that description of like the vomiting, right as an example. Or other things that you know, drinking, drinking, drinking, being so sick afterwards, if I said to you, across the street from your house is a lot of fun. But everybody in the house has the flu. And when you leave, you're gonna have the flu for six days. Would you say I'm not going there if I'm gonna get the flu? Yeah, but if I said you like, hey, next door, there's a bunch of coke and booze and you're gonna be incredibly sick afterwards. But it'll be a lot of fun. You'd go Alright, well, let's do that. That's so funny to me. Like, because the end result is, is feeling poorly. And for so that. So there's some other aspect to it. Right? There's some, you know, I don't know if it's addiction or what the other aspect of it is. I mean, imagine it's probably addiction. But somehow you like you had such a bad experience. You broke free of it. But now you're saddled with I don't know if you realize it or not. You have survivor's guilt. Like you got out.

Ashton 48:41
You know, I've never actually thought of it like that.

Scott Benner 48:44
Yeah, you got away from it. And now you feel responsible and guilty that you can't get everyone else out of it.

Ashton 48:52
Yeah, yeah, right. Yeah, that's, yeah. I've never thought of it like that. But no, you're 100%. Right.

Scott Benner 49:00
You know, the problem with that is, you know what the answer to that is, and it's tough is that you can't help those people. They have their own experience. They have to have their own vomiting, their stomach lining up experience, or something that's going to snap them out of it. And the truth is, those things may not come together. Honestly, you could have had your stomach lining experience and not had your boyfriend. And you might not have been your dog. Yeah, you might not have snapped out of it. Like it might have just been a confluence of different things in your life, that you were able to kind of stop and see all at once. And then those impacts of all those things together. were stronger than your desire to party. Yeah, you know what I mean? Yeah, like your moment of clarity might not come to everybody, and you certainly can't make them have it.

Ashton 49:55
No, and I've actually been getting better with realizing Not lately. You know if my brother in law sends me a text and this, I know when there's something up, he will just text me and all he'll say, is Ashton in the texts? So then I'll just immediately say, what what do you need? What do you want, and then he'll go off. And I'll say, Well, I'm sorry, I can't help you. And I'll just, if I have to, I'll put my phone in another room and let him phone, let them text and just kind of ignore it. And my cousin isn't so bad that way. He knows. He knows what I've gone through my whole life. And I think deep down, he doesn't want to bother me with his problems. And, but my brother in law, he I'm, he talks, he'll go through everyone, he will call everyone he can think of, to go through the same circle about my life. I'm done doing this, I'm done doing drugs, I need to get my life back, I need to get my girlfriend back, I need to do this. And about every week or two weeks, it was the same thing over and over again. And I had to get to the point where I just said, You know what? Sorry. You know what? You do this all yourself? Like, I can't be there to help you. All I can tell you is we don't like you. We, we love we love you. But we don't love the addict.

Scott Benner 51:38
Do you? Consider telling them that they need to get help? Like, were you? Are you not interested in talking to them again? Like,

Ashton 51:46
oh, no, we thought he lives. So my father in law lives through the bush like to it's a two minute walk through the bush to my father in law's house. And my brother in law is now staying at my father in law's. So on his good days, we just don't bring it up, we let him have his good day. But on his bad days, I will tell him like get out of my yard. Or, you know, I can't deal with this. Today, I've got my daughter to deal with having a bad blood sugar day, whatever. And he is usually pretty good with backing off when you tell her mean, you need the space. It's hard, but

Scott Benner 52:29
it's hard to hear. But it's that that sort of a problem, like you see to the level that they can't handle it. Right? You can't handle it either. It's not it's not a thing. Any one person can just sort of shoulder and make go away. It's not like it's not like if he could throw his problems onto you, he'd suddenly stopped doing coke, he just be more unencumbered and be like, well, now I can really party because I'm not worried about all the other problems. It's not like that, that conversation that those people have with you about, oh, I'm gonna stop and this is gonna happen. I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's not really they might want it to happen, but it's not going to it's no different than when someone comes to you and says, that's it for me. I'm done. I'm on a diet. You know, like, all right. Like,

Ashton 53:15
yeah, I'll see you when I believe.

Scott Benner 53:18
I heard that Arizona six months ago, they greatly so it's a it's a human. They're caught in a loop. And it's it is a pretty human thing. I think that's why a exists and and similar programs for drugs, and why people go to rehab, and things like that. Like, do you think that? I mean, is there locally supported rehab that they could go to? Oh, yes,

Ashton 53:45
we have. So

Scott Benner 53:48
business where you're at with this? Oh, yeah. There's a Walmart in a rehab next to it, right.

Ashton 53:55
I don't know why there's not more around here, honestly. Because we are like, from just from the experiences in the last year that we've had with them. It seems like they are just overrun with people, okay. And my cousin, my auntie and uncle actually paid for rehab twice for him. And each time, the first time he didn't even make it there. The second time he got outside and decided no, I can do this myself. I'm done. I'm not going and that's the other thing they need to want to go. Yeah, right. My my brother in law, we've had a man that deep talks twice now. And someone goes and picks him up. We don't know who this person is because he will tell us. I need you to drive me so my truck isn't there so I can't leave. So you know, my father in law or my cousin and took him in, brought him there. And all of a sudden, two days later, he's out. And he's got his truck again. And we asked him who picked him up? And he won't tell us. He says a friend, that's all he says, is a friend. And so he's just not quite ready, I guess to take to do the work, I

Scott Benner 55:23
can't matter to you, though. You know, they mean that you can't be your problem. If Yeah, you know, if this was your kid, or your, or your kids father, then okay, then you have like a, it's I mean, it's a tough thing to say. But there are points in life when, if a family members dragging you down, you know, you're I don't know if you've ever sometimes people drown. And the people that go to save them get pulled under by them. Yeah, there's a panic that happens during drowning. And they can't stop and they end up drowning both people. And this sounds so much like that. Just like they're in a situation that is so terrible. And they just like, they're gonna pull you back into it. Like, that's my fear, as you're talking actually, is that sent me an email in a year and say, Oh, God, I did coke. And I'm not taking care of my baby. And I just I went to help my friend or something. And then everyone was there. And like, you don't even mean like, it's if I was you. I don't know your situation, I would pack up and leave. I really, I really would. I'd moved I'd move somewhere else.

Ashton 56:38
Well, I would if I didn't have such a great support system where I'm at? Because yes, I do have those two, pause. And the third one was dabbling a little bit, but he's not. I don't know. He doesn't seem like he's addicted yet. And like you say, I can't do anything about it. It's his life. And I've come to that point now. Where if they call, or someone tells me Oh, yeah, your cousin had a slip up, or whatever. I'm just like, okay, like, I'm upset about it for 510 minutes. And then it's done with because my grandma was actually the one who told my grandma was actually the one who told me because I, one day was having a really hard time dealing with that with the fact that they were all addicted. And I told my grandma everything. And she said, Well, Ashton, you can't do anything about it. Here. You're just gonna worry yourself twice? For No, for no reason. Yeah. Well,

Scott Benner 57:53
I mean, you have this baby. And here's your own thing. You have diabetes. And I mean, listen, of all the things that somebody's ever written to me about, like, why I want to be on the show. You're like, well, I'm, I have diabetes. And I'm, and I love people who are have addiction problems, and it's hard. And it's just while you're talking, the one thing that occurs to me is that because you are a person who grew up in that bubble, and you've been through it, like your description of using, like alcohol and Coke, as a younger person was disturbing to me. You were like, Hey, I just drank and then you just did some coke. So you could keep drinking? Like I Yeah, it's not a judgement at all. I just want you to understand that from my perspective, that's insane.

Ashton 58:42
Well, I I totally agree with you now that I'm in a good headspace. And

Scott Benner 58:48
but But what I'm saying is that when you're evaluating other people in your life, there is a section of you, that just sees that as partying. Like there's like, there's a part of you that at some point, thought that made sense. And I wonder if that part of you, keeps you from assessing what's happening to other people completely, honestly, because then you'd be assessing yourself. Like when you look at them, and they are a disaster. I don't know if you can say that to yourself, because then you're kind of saying, Oh, God, I used to be a disaster. I don't know. Like, maybe you can. But I just wonder if like, I don't know, sometimes, like, almost like, I'm the worst person to ask about what's in the podcast, because I'm too close to it. Like there are people that help moderate the Facebook page, who if you said to them, like I'm looking for an episode about this, they'd be like, bang, that's this one. If you asked me that, I'd go. I mean, I remember having a conversation about that, but I don't know. And so I wonder if like, because this is a world you live through, if you're not a little incapable of judging it as honestly as it needs to be judged.

Ashton 59:56
Like well, and you're completely right. err, and tell, I would say the last three, four months, I was talking, we, me and my husband were talking about the two boys that are having their trouble. And I just said to Tom, like, that was me. Eight years ago, yeah, I would have been there, I would have been right where they are with nothing. Like I shouldn't say nothing, because they do still have their vehicles in their houses. But they are barely scraping by to pay for those. And I said to Tom, I wouldn't have this beautiful child that I have. We actually just built an acreage on his dad's land. We've been in the house for a year now. And I said, like, look at all of this, look what I have. And if this was eight years ago, that I couldn't even imagine any of this. Right, I thought I thought I was gonna be going down that same path. And but the last few months, I really looked back on how I was, and how growing up growing up was. Or not growing up, but like, the teen years? Hard? Yeah. And like, I always wonder, would it be different if, you know, I went to a different school? Or if I went to, you know, the neighboring town, or if anything would have been different? And I, like I always, that's always in the back of my head is, am I protecting these two boys? Because I don't want everyone to look at me and judge me about what I used to do.

Scott Benner 1:01:57
Right? Yeah, that's why I said move. Like you need a fresh start. I know you can sounds like your property in places and stuff like that. But it's just one of those guys that you're talking about. If the day they were born, someone would have scooped them up and taken them to Maryland and left them on the front doorstep of some lovely people who don't drink and then do coke to reinvigorate themselves. They would 100% be a different person right now.

Ashton 1:02:25
Yeah, yeah, I completely agree. And like I said, if I didn't have the support I do. I mean, my parents are here. My two grandparents are still alive. They're here. I understand. My father in law, his siblings, like we're all a very tight knit family. And we've all been sticking it sticking together through all of this. And at this point, I feel like if I like if I would have moved probably 10 years ago, that would have been perfect. But now at this point, if I were far away from the two boys, I don't know, I think I would just constantly be wondering where they are, and what they're doing. And because every day, not every day, but probably three times a week, if I haven't heard from either of those boys. I will, you know, text them and just be like, Hey, what's up, or I will ask my husband. Hey, have you talked to your brother lately? Or whatever, just because? I don't know. I guess what

Scott Benner 1:03:43
are you telling me? I should? Are you telling me that because that was your past? You don't have a future? No, no, no. You have to let go of it. Like that's the only answer. It sucks. Like, Listen, I'm not a doctor. I'm not a therapist. I'm a person. But I'm listening to you. And I've met Listen, I have a an acquaintance who grew up with insane parents. Okay, like really controlling, odd, insane people. And it was ruining their life. And then one day, they just went to their mother and said, I love you. But you're dragging me down with you. And we're not going to speak anymore. And then they just didn't do it and their life righted itself like it Yes, it was her mother and that made it really difficult. But but that that person was a chain with a weight on it around her neck. And she and and it turned out the chain had a latch on it. And she just she wasn't being drugged down by something she couldn't get off. She She just didn't want to get rid of it because it was her mom. And then yeah, did and I'm not saying it's easy. I'm not saying that this woman is just floating around the world going like I don't talk to my mom anymore. That doesn't matter to me. That is a source of trouble for her. But it is Not as much trouble as the mother was. And like, I know you're gonna feel badly. But But what I keep wondering is, or are you guys also local to each other that you can avoid them?

Ashton 1:05:15
That's kind of it. We all live within 1015 minutes of each other. And we're in a really, really small town, like not, I don't even know how many people probably 2500. Okay. So not a ton of people, and we all still have a lot of the same friends. Like, we have a friend who we hang out with, but then we'll, we'll hang out with him for months and months, and it'll be fine. And then all of a sudden, he'll say, Oh, I ran into, and we went and had a crazy night out.

Scott Benner 1:06:05
Yeah, that's not going to stop. That's what I'm saying. But yeah, it's such a hard thing to say out loud. It's not gonna stop it. No, you could listen, my wife leaves her shoes on the floor. She's bad about it. If I really put my mind to it. I don't know if I could get her to stop doing it. And that's not drinking and cocaine. So, you know, you mean like, it's it's not an addiction she has, it isn't a crutch about her life. It isn't. It isn't a bunch of pain manifesting itself in an activity. It's that she's she, she has a habit. And she would first of all have to listen to me when I said, Hey, listen, you leave your shoes in the middle of the floor. We're going to stop doing that. She'd have to say, okay, Scott, you know what, you're right. I'm going to put some effort into that, can you please remind me every time and it would still be a process just to get a human being an adult to stop doing something that simple. My I don't want to sound like a Debbie Downer here. But you're not going to stop those people from being who they are.

Ashton 1:07:10
No. And I've really, like I said, the last few months, I've really come to realize that. And we have distanced ourselves as much as possible. My brother in law, like he came over, I think, a week ago, he was in a good mindset, and everything came over and plowed our driveway. And that's the most I've seen him in probably in a few months. And like, just, I'm just trying my best to distance myself from them.

Scott Benner 1:07:45
Yeah. And try not feel bad for you when you're talking about it. Because I know you love these people. And this isn't what you want to do.

Ashton 1:07:53
No, it's not what I want to do. But for my family, my daughter, my sanity, my diabetes, I need to. And my two cousins. Like we have drifted apart tremendously since I had my daughter because of this reason. And same with my husband and brother in law, they used to be best friends. And Tom has just distanced himself, because he just can't handle the fact that while he lost his mother, and now they could possibly lose his brother. Okay, and so he's trying to, and he needs he also realized, his brother told him, he was starving and needed groceries. So we lent him some money. And Tom said, I should have went to the grocery store and picked him up food and not given him money.

Scott Benner 1:09:01
Right? Because the problems are sorted.

Ashton 1:09:05
Yeah, exactly. And then, about a week after that, Tom said, You know what? No, he doesn't need anything from me. Even if he is starving, I'm not going to the grocery store and buying food that he's like, I feel like that is enabling him. And he's told his dad to you need to stop lending him money to, you know, top up with his bills, because he's always, you know, $300 short on his bills or something like that.

Scott Benner 1:09:38
Yeah, I was gonna say that. There's the thing about lending people money, right? You don't lend people money. You just give it to them? Because you shouldn't expect it back. And yeah, and the bigger problem is the first time you do it, all it really does is lead to the second time it has to happen, which leads to the 50th time where they're like, Oh, I'm just $50 short this month, or I'm there assume that because they are in a they're in a deficit, right? They have a need doesn't matter that it's money, they have a need, yeah, meet the need, you have, probably you're not, I don't imagine you're sitting around with like, oh, we just have all this extra money sitting around. I don't know what to do. You don't I mean, it's Yeah. And so just because you've got a tiny bit of savings, or a couple of dollars in your pocket, and can afford to hands and probably can't afford, but can get away with handing somebody $50 or $100, or something like that, or giving them food. It's never going to stop. Never, ever, ever, ever going to stop. Because then that becomes part of their hunting and get their hunting and gathering process. Like I have a job, that job makes money, I have costs, I have a home, I have a truck, I have clothing, I have food, I don't meet those costs every month, but it doesn't matter. Because actions given me money. Now you're part of it. You're their job now to go to them and tell the sad story and go, I'm gonna stop I really am. But right now, I can't afford bread in my stomach, like, you know, like, and then you're like, oh, hell, and then that guilt gets to you, you give them that money, they're not giving it back to you. If they can exact right? And moreover, they're going to come back to you and ask for it again. So whether it's money, something tangible like that, or food, or it's part of yours, or if it's more psychological, like when they come to you, and they fallen apart, and now they need to dump their thing on you and then have you tell them, It's okay, you're basically recharging them. They're stealing your use of resources. And whether those resources are in your head or in your pocket. These people are there, they're black holes. That will you you can't fill them.

Ashton 1:11:42
That's exactly it. Because he is my brother in law, same thing, he will come and he Well, I shouldn't say he will. Because this, he's been doing better to the last while. But But up until about a month and a half, two months ago, he would come to us and try and dump everything on us. And we would just say, well, you that's your fault. You caused this, you did this, you made the choice. And he would just dump it on you. And he'd either get upset, or he'd agree with you completely. And then he Oh, well, I gotta go. And then he just leave and he wouldn't go home that night.

Scott Benner 1:12:25
Yeah, let me let me ask you. What do you in a perfect scenario? What would you want from these people?

Ashton 1:12:34
Honestly, I would just want for them to show up at you know, the two three family dinners we have a year. I think that's all I really want is to you know, have one or two good days with them once in a while.

Scott Benner 1:12:52
You see that's for you. But for Yeah. Yeah, for them. What do you need them to do? I don't like if I put you in charge of their life, if we took away their free will and I gave it to you. What would you make them do?

Ashton 1:13:10
I would make them quit the drugs obviously. Get a job. Find or you know, get a job or go to school or find a hobby. Lots of the boys around like my husband is leaving on a trip in a week to go snowmobiling at Revelstoke.

Scott Benner 1:13:33
Oh, that's a normal thing. They're not going to do normal stuff. But now, so those things that you just asked that you would say magic wand, make this person stop drinking, make them stop doing this? Are they going to do that? No. Okay, so then what's the what's the answer for you, because what I'm telling you is, you're not in control of them. And you being a crutch for them is just going to ruin you. You have a baby, you can't give somebody money, okay? And you can't give them your time or your energy. You don't want to be anxious. Listen, if they're driving your blood sugar up, I hate to I hate to talk like this. But if your blood sugar is bouncing all over the damn place, you can't be a good mom. And maybe 20 years from now, you're not going to be a healthy person because of that. And, and 20 years from now, when you're looking at your 21 year old child in the face, you're like, Well, I'm dying now. So good luck in this world, because I spent my whole life giving away my resources to people who didn't appreciate it and who were probably not saveable to begin with. So the so what I'm saying is the answer is this. They have to go to rehab and go through that process. And it works for them or it doesn't, and I would hope that it would, but that's the end of what you can do for them. You can tell them one time. I can't speak to you again until you complete rehab. Do not call here don't text me. Don't come by don't asked me for anything, don't come to any events, go to rehab, finish rehab, come back to me show me a chip. And then we can start talking again. Because you're not as much as this sucks to say they're not in a measurement of humanity at the moment, they're not where you are.

Ashton 1:15:20
No. And honestly, I've even the last I'd say week, I've come to the realization that they probably never will be.

Scott Benner 1:15:32
Well, hopefully, hopefully they can be. But that can't be your problem.

Ashton 1:15:34
Yeah, yeah, no, right, exactly. And I'm getting better at letting that go. And focusing on just my friends and family who are there. And trying to just distance myself from them. I'm working on that. I just

Scott Benner 1:15:55
so I don't know a ton about this. But I think it's possible that you should go to an Al Anon meeting.

Ashton 1:16:04
See, and that's the other thing. My husband had mentioned to me. He, because I had told my brother in law's girlfriend. I said, well, there is support meetings, maybe you should go to that. And when we got home from visiting her, he said to me, maybe you should look into doing this because you said I would, but it's just my brother. And I'm, I'm doing okay with it with that. But you it's, you're my brother, your two cousin, three cousins struggling

Scott Benner 1:16:45
with it. And that's fine. Yeah. Listen, growing up with alcoholic parents, or in an alcoholic like place is, is is impactful on people? Like it actually changes things like about your, like, let me see if I can think of one off the top of my head. Are you more comfortable when things are crazy? Like when when life looks good? Does it make you feel like it can't possibly last? You ever

Ashton 1:17:13
times like I'm more the last year or more content with calmness, and basically nothingness. So like, no one's bothering me. I'm good with that you

Scott Benner 1:17:27
are making real progress for yourself. I sounds like you are I listen, I can only assess you on what you're saying. Right? But you're making really good progress on your for yourself. And I just I don't know, I would treat. I would treat them like they were the flu. And I'd be like, I don't want to be around that. I don't want I don't want that get on me. Now. Listen, here's the interesting thing. If your brother in law came on the podcast, I wouldn't tell him, Hey, I hope people around you will abandon you. I hope that everybody leaves you, I would tell them, here's what you need to do for yourself. Yeah, I wouldn't tell him. Here's what you have to get your sister in law to do for you. Right? And so I it's not without compassion that I'm saying these things to you. I'm talking to you about your specific situation and to defend you and your specific situation. You have to get away from these people. Like yeah, that's that. I mean, I you know, it's harsh. And it's, it might sound cold, but it would only sound cold to somebody who doesn't know what this is. This reality is like, because this Yeah, right. Yeah, drowning, and they are trying to pull you under with them.

Ashton 1:18:40
And honestly, if I, myself didn't do the drugs and the drinking when I was younger, I think it might be easier for me.

Scott Benner 1:18:50
Oh, you'd be harsher. Yeah. Because you wouldn't have any perspective for it.

Ashton 1:18:53
Exactly. I wouldn't have that. What's the word? I'm looking for empathy? Like, yeah, empathy, I wouldn't have that same. I would.

Scott Benner 1:19:03
Your empathy is causing you to swim out 100 yards into the ocean and go, don't worry, I'll pull you back in. And you're not qualified for that. So not at all. So what's the answer? Tell me your because we're at the end here. We're wrapping up. So tell me you're telling me what the answer is to this. Like, what do you do next?

Ashton 1:19:22
I think my next shot, my next step is just let it be if you know if I am over at my father in law's and my brother in law is there and he's having a good day. I'll let him have that good day. I'll act like nothing's going on. But when he is in a bad spot, I just ignore him and leave and come home. I think is my best. Best Action right now.

Scott Benner 1:19:54
It's a good step also what it's going to teach you. My expectation is that At some point, you're going to progress and grow to the point where you think I don't even want to be around this one day a week. Exactly. You will, it'll, and that's where you have to kind of go to your that's where you almost have to go to your father in law and say, Look, I don't I'm not asking you to choose between your children. But I hope you understand that I can't bring my baby here. Like, like, we're doing a good job of building a good life for ourselves. And we can't keep coming back to this. And I feel badly that this is the situation with the boys or whatever. But yeah, we can't be around this. Listen, I'm gonna tell you something right now. There are people in my family and my extended family, people I love and care about greatly, who my children have never been in their car. And when it became obvious that we weren't allowing our kids in their car, and they sent it to us, we responded by saying, Yeah, I can't let you drive my kids anywhere. And you have to, you know, I'm sorry. And I know that's harsh. But we but and this is almost the same thing. Like because it was hard to say to them, it was hard for them to hear. And yet I had something I cared about more than their feelings.

Ashton 1:21:18
Exactly. And we've had a sort of similar situation is your car thing. Um, brother in law about six, eight months ago, asked if he could stay here, because he wasn't waking up for his alarms for work in the morning. He stayed here, and he wasn't waking up to his alarm. So my husband went and went down the hallway to wake him up. And he poked him a couple times and said, Get up. You're going to be late for work. Sorry,

Scott Benner 1:21:51
you're fine. I gave up on that a while ago.

Ashton 1:21:58
And he absolutely lost it. started calling my husband right down to the ground, went into the bathroom to have a shower and slammed the door. The bathroom was right beside my daughter's room. This is at 530 in the morning. So as soon as brother in law went out the door to go to work. I looked at my husband. I said he's not saying here one more time. He's not

Scott Benner 1:22:30
because he wasn't he wanted a mommy. He wanted somebody to help them get out of bed in the morning. Exactly. Man, you didn't want me got mad at you?

Ashton 1:22:38
Yeah, and he wasn't even high that night.

Scott Benner 1:22:43
No, he's emotionally immature. Exactly. Yeah.

Ashton 1:22:48
And so after that, I said, not. He's not to be around Rory when he's acting like that. He's not coming to stay here again. The other situation? His girlfriend got pregnant. She's about halfway along now. So Tom, and I had the conversation. Well, if he projects this baby attitude onto his child, well, our child will not be hanging out with his child.

Scott Benner 1:23:25
I don't know how to break it to you. It's already too late for that. That kid's already doomed. Exactly. That when it comes to that, that this person isn't fixing themselves before that kid becomes impressionable. That's yeah, that's not helpful.

Ashton 1:23:38
That's what my husband said to we're hoping that the well I don't know if their girlfriend if it's his ex girlfriend or girlfriend, but I think she is going to stay living where she is with out him. And they're gonna try and CO parent I think, I don't know, it changes all the time. What's

Scott Benner 1:23:59
gonna happen? I have some money. I'd like to bet on that. Yeah, so and I don't mean to be make light of it. I know. It really is just there is a there is a giant force moving in a direction. And a new baby or a girlfriend or you helping somebody wake up in the morning is not enough to stop this tidal wave that is this person's life. Like it is fine to crash down on the shore and destroy everything that it touches. And you got to move like you got to get away from where it's going to happen. And it's hard but and I get your get the feeling the overwhelming feeling of I can help I can help. I can help but I mean, that's the same feeling that a that a gambler has no I gotta hit this time. And then you know, it doesn't happen. It doesn't happen. It doesn't happen and then you'd make bigger and bigger bets to try to like win back what you've lost. And then before you know it, it's you in a dark black space with nothing around you. If you've bet your shoes, you're naked. It's over. And now you're done. And then that taints your child's life. Exactly. It's all we all know what to do here, Ashton. It's just a question of whether or not you're gonna do it.

Ashton 1:25:12
Yeah, and I've been working on it sounds like you're trying pretty hard for her for her.

Scott Benner 1:25:17
Pretty impressive what you're doing seriously? Like, like, Yeah, I'm not kidding. Like, it's not like you were like, the, the, like, the straight edge kid in the family. Like you did the whole thing, too. And then oh, yeah, hold yourself out. I, you know.

Ashton 1:25:33
And that's the thing is my younger cousin, the one who is starting to dabble in the cocaine. He was always the one who was straight edge. He started a company, he's got a company now, he led a small engine company. He he was always the one who said no, you know, you ask them for, if you want to cigarette Oh, no, I'm good. You know, he'll have two drinks and go to bed. Or he was never really a party, kid. And now he's getting drug into it. And that's a big worry for me. Because how can me go from? How can I go from party girl, wild child to family woman. And it was like, I, it didn't take me any work. It was just I woke up one day and I decided I'm, I'm done. I don't want that. I want a family. I want a life with this guy I want. And I just gave it up. And I just It worries me about my younger cousin quite a bit, because he was such a good kid. And he was always able to say no, and now he's dabbling, too. So I've had to distance myself from him, too.

Scott Benner 1:27:03
Yeah, I'm sorry. It's terrible. It there's nothing. Nothing

Ashton 1:27:07
it is. I have other like, I have my family and everything. But other than them, those three, but it's getting hard. And I've found, like I said, blood sugars with them up and down like they have been, it's so easy for me to get into that depressive mood. Where I'm bawling because I don't know where my brother in law or my cousins are or

Scott Benner 1:27:42
Yeah, but if you didn't know where they were or anything about their life, you wouldn't be worried about them. So you have to do what's best for you. Stop thinking about of just like your blood sugar, although I see you see it in your blood sugar. But really step back and see that what's really happening is that your emotions, and your nervous system, and everything about you is in turmoil for knowing these people

Ashton 1:28:05
do exactly that. Yeah, that is a great way to put it.

Scott Benner 1:28:10
Yeah. Forget, forget, forget, like forget focusing on your blood sugar, or on one thing, it's peace. There's a peace that comes with life. And, and they're taking it from you, or you're giving it to them, probably more specifically,

Ashton 1:28:25
I would say I'm giving it to them. Because I've given them your piece. I tell them I tell myself all the time. Ignore them, ignore them, ignore them, and then they will, you know, oh, hey, do you mind if we stop over for five minutes? And is it Rory don't come here? Yeah. And I'm like, Oh, okay. And then we ended up getting into a big conversation about you know, the other. The other thing is my brother in law and my cousin, they always come to us to bitch about each other. Okay, so that needs to stop to

Scott Benner 1:29:06
see the I don't know if you notice, but basically, what what you're surrounded with is a lot of reasons why bad stuff happens. And it all feels so normal to you. That you almost say it like, I don't know what the example here is. If you almost say it like, oh, you know what happens? They come over here and then they have to sleep here. So I have to wake them up in the morning. You almost say it like, you know what happens? Like some days you have to vacuum the rug. Like it's not normal. Yeah, but you haven't all these things that you're saying? They're not normal. But they seem normal to you.

Ashton 1:29:40
Yeah, it's just how it's been the last, probably your whole lives around. Well.

Scott Benner 1:29:49
What about the adults on your family who were doing the same thing 20 years ago? Yeah, I probably didn't see it happening. But these are probably just things that are repeating over and over again.

Ashton 1:29:59
And That's a big thing my husband and I are working on is breaking that cycle.

Scott Benner 1:30:06
Yeah, listen, you can break it in five seconds. Because you're right, exactly. Yeah, there's a way to break it, you can be done with this right now. So it's, um, it's up to you. Really, it's up to you about like, the level in which you're going to separate. And yeah, I can't tell you for sure that you going to bet it's going to work. But I'll tell you, it's worth trying.

Ashton 1:30:30
It is at this point, because like I said, every day, if something will come up, that reminds me of one of those boys. And that's what's on my mind for the next hour. Are they alive? Did they make it through the night? Did and I need to distance myself from that?

Scott Benner 1:30:47
Yeah, what you should be worrying about is, how's my blood sugar? Is it stable? Am I gonna live a good long time to raise my child and live with my person that I love? And do the things that I want to do? Like, that's, yeah, that's really where your focus should be. It's on yourself and your family. And you have to stop thinking of your cousin or a brother in law, on the same level as you think about your child or your husband. It just, it's, that's just what it is. I probably sound so callous today.

Ashton 1:31:15
No, no, I,

Scott Benner 1:31:19
I guess Yeah. But not to you. But I'm thinking the people listening are probably like Jesus got a little bit. But yeah, I mean, you've given people more than enough chances. And their situation is dire enough that expecting just you to be kind to them, or give them 50 bucks, or a loaf of bread and some milk and some other stuff. That's not going to work. So no, you have to do something that's going to work and protect yourself do because, by the way, he said it early on in the show, and we never it's got nothing to do with your direct story. But violence does follow drinking and drugs, and bad decisions and violence and sometimes violence on purpose. And sometimes violence by mistake in the form of a car accident or something like that, or even a home accident. These are not things you don't want to wake up tomorrow to hear that your husband had a car accident with somebody. And you don't I mean, like it's just I don't know, I my brain might be overly simplistic, but I would just get away from that. I would I would never and I'm not just talking about my ass like I've done it my life. Like I've seen people on my go, you are not dragging me down. I get one shot at this. I get I got my kids, my wife my opportunity. I am absolutely not. For somebody who doesn't want the help or can accept the help. You can't force it on them. And so

Ashton 1:32:45
and you just I've had a it's been so easy for me to accept that with, you know, close friends of mine that I've that I grew up with. I can no problem. Just delete them out of my life. Yeah, just like that. I'm have no problem. Just these two boys. They are albatross

Scott Benner 1:33:10
don't let them. Don't let them be your albatross. Like, just you got it. Yeah, absolutely. And I'm telling you that allanon is not a bad answer. I think I think really, that would be how you'd that that would be a way where you could talk to other people who've been in the same situation. And they could, yeah, you know what happened to them.

Ashton 1:33:29
Because it's not my, you know, my child or my parents or my brother, my sibling that is addicted. They are farther away from me. But we've all grown up so close that I'm just having that hard time letting them go. And I think you're right. I think an Al Anon meeting would probably even just to go to one I'm sure would make me feel so much lighter.

Scott Benner 1:33:57
I even forget being lighter. You have to find a way to value yourself over the their problems. So yeah, hey, I'm sorry, I shouldn't I actually I have to get I have a meeting coming up. Oh, no, sorry.

Ashton 1:34:13
I didn't realize wait, no,

Scott Benner 1:34:14
no, don't be sorry. We had a nice concert. I love this this wonderful. I I want you to know that I'll go back and edit it. I'll take everybody's names out. Okay. You're fine. And, and I appreciate you sharing the story. It's I think it's more I mean, listen, the salient details might be different. Maybe it's not cocaine and booze. Maybe it's, you know, other things, but there are plenty of people living with diabetes, who who are impacted by the people around them in negative ways. And I thought it was just really, I mean, it wasn't a whole story. Like you couldn't have talked about it for an hour. But hearing you say my blood sugar is affected by people around me be In short heads, and I don't know how to stop it, I think it's something a lot of people are going to are going to find some commonality with while they're listening. It might not be whale fields and Coke, but there's something going on in people's lives that is doing the same thing to them. So I really appreciate Yeah, time talking.

Ashton 1:35:18
That's kind of why I wanted to come on to is just how family members or loved ones affect our care

Scott Benner 1:35:30
into one group and call the mother. How's that? How the mother years in our life are affecting my diabetes. And why? Why don't they pull their head out of their ass so I can stop worrying about them. That's a long file off that I have to pare that down to probably something like after dark oil drilling and Coke, but you know

a huge thank you to one of today's sponsors, G voc glucagon, find out more about Chivo Capo pen at G Vogue glucagon.com forward slash juicebox. You spell that g v o OKEGLUC. Ag o n.com. Forward slash juicebox. I also want to thank Dexcom, makers of the Dexcom G six and Dexcom G seven continuous glucose monitoring systems, please get yours at my link dexcom.com forward slash juice box and of course the today's guest Ashton for telling this incredible story. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast. If you're looking for a community around your diabetes, check out the Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes, it's a private group. It's absolutely free. I think it has like 37,000 members. It's incredibly active, very helpful. And it doesn't matter if you have type one, type two or whatever. There's every kind of diabetic and person using insulin and parent of somebody you can imagine there to great group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes, absolutely free on Facebook. If you're enjoying the show, please share it with someone else who you think might also enjoy it. And please subscribe or follow in an audio app like Apple podcast, Spotify, Amazon music or something like that.

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