#528 ReliOn Novolog from Walmart

August 20, 2021Scott Benner

Warren Moore, Vice President, Walmart Neighborhood Market Pharmacy Operations is here to talk about ReliOn Novolog Insulin from Walmart.

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Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to Episode 528 of the Juicebox Podcast.

today's show we're gonna be speaking with Warren Moore. Warren is vice president Walmart neighborhood market pharmacy operations. And he's here to tell us about rely on novolog insulin, just now available at Walmart. What this insulin is may surprise you.

If this is your first time listening, please subscribe or follow in a podcast that if you're looking for the diabetes pro tip series, you can find them beginning in Episode 210 in your podcast app, or at Juicebox Podcast comm or or doubler diabetes pro tip calm. While you're listening today, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan for becoming bold with insulin.

Today's episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by touched by type one touched by type one is an organization focused on helping people with type one diabetes, you can learn more about them at touched by type one.org. or on Facebook, or Instagram.

Warren Moore 1:54
Hello, Scott Warren more vice president health and wellness at Walmart. Happy to be here with you today.

Scott Benner 2:01
And I really appreciate you doing this. Thank you, I, I took a shot that I knew somebody that I could get to you. And it worked. And I'm sometimes amazed when it all works out. So I I'll tell you that when it kind of came up, right. So I'm in an interesting position that I'd like to explain to you. So when I saw the press release about rely on insulin coming out, the first thing I thought was they already have insulin, right. It's like it's a different kind of insulin, it's you know, I hear people say certain things about it. And then I listened a little closer. And I realized that this was the thing that I had kind of knew was going to happen for a while. You're You're basically just selling novolog but it's called something different now. And I thought how are we going to explain that to anybody and what happened? So I thought we could get together and ask a couple questions. Can you tell me first a little bit about rely on and and how it got started and what its aim is?

Warren Moore 3:00
Yeah, rely on his his private brand at Walmart. And so how people you think about it you shopping our stores, probably the biggest private brand that we have that people look at is great. And so within our health and wellness space, rely on its label, we put products out both OTC and so over the counter, as well as pharmaceutical products. And it's under our private label. And it allows us to, to lower the cost so that we can lower the price. And it helps our customers save money each and every day.

Scott Benner 3:37
Now do you manufacture your own products? Or are they is the whole brand just kind of repackaged something out? Like you know me like are you buying it from a corporation and already making a thing? And it just gets this new kind of facelift? Or how does it work? Or is it from product to product is that change?

Warren Moore 3:57
I think for the for the artists today it's you know, for us we think about Nova law. It is the actual product that Nova notice, produces. And and so we were able to come together in a partnership and can do that and real grateful for their partnership that we were able to come together to lower the price. So I will say, Scott, if you think about the rely on brand as a whole. We continue to have conversations and understand what's the right way to make sure that we bring products to market that our quality as well. So we never sacrifice on quality. And as you think about incident around this, we want to make sure that the FDA approved exact product. But we were able to bring our assets and in partnership with no one notice to lower the price.

Scott Benner 4:47
Okay, jumping to just something randomly different like a test strip. For instance, I'm assuming you sell test strips, is that something that Walmart makes? Or is it the same situation where it's a product from somewhere else that it's It's kind of rebranded

Warren Moore 5:02
its partnerships. And so as a, as a company, we use partnerships that we have on the produce for us on the under private brands, just like with, with all Gen, obviously, most private brands, I should say, within the industry, what we do is to rely on product brand has become one that our customers can trust. So, you mentioned OTC, you can go to our stores today, you can buy a 50 count box of test strips, and you can get a meter, both for $9. So you can start testing your blood sugar for $18. Again, we don't sacrifice quality. So we get make sure that everything goes to the right approvals the partners we have. And, and we we believe that it's so important to make sure we do it in a way in order to increase access and affordability for all of our customers.

Scott Benner 5:59
So that's part of it, then right, the idea of getting the populations that would not normally have access to these things to begin with.

Warren Moore 6:07
Yeah, you know, Walmart will say equity is is really at top of mind for so you will take where our stores are today. So we operate when you look at Walmart and Sam's Club, we operate over 5000 pharmacies. And actually 90% of the American population lives within 10 miles of a Walmart. And so what that does for us, because we have stores that reach rule and metro areas, we have a lot of our stores that are in medically underserved areas as defined by hersa, which is a subset of HHS. And, and so we're able to in these communities, where individuals struggle to have access to quality, affordable health care, they can't get access to a Walmart or Sam's Club. And then in there, we also have great pharmacists that are there that know the community that are part of community, ask your questions, and be a part of that healthcare continuum. So we believe that that we're positioned here not only by the law on a price, our footprint allows us to reach the communities and really increase access and equity. And, and so we're, we're, we're happy that we're able to touch that many customers across the US. That's

Scott Benner 7:26
amazing. Okay, so what this this insulin that you just started selling now? What do you guys calling it?

Warren Moore 7:34
It's called rely on Nova log. And so it's, it's underneath our brand and and Scott, one of the things we haven't talked about is really, you know, the the price evens that are associated with this. Yeah. For for a vow love of this canceling for the rely on overlock is $72.86 versus the branded price of $174. Wow, so almost Oh, but

Scott Benner 8:02
Geez, it's $100 off, right?

Warren Moore 8:05
Yeah, that's $100 off, and then you get into flex pens, we do the flex pens as well. The Price Is 8588. And the national brand new price is $337. So we got $251. So you're talking 58 to 75 5% savings, respectively, on these products that we're bringing to market.

Scott Benner 8:25
Can I ask you the kind of a back room question to this is, is there something about are we avoiding the insurance process? Is that how the prices go down? Or do you are you being Are you able to buy it directly from novo at a lower price? Like I don't understand how that I think what I'm thinking is that most people listening aren't going to understand how that could be. And I'm trying to find a way to explain it to them. You're laughing well.

Warren Moore 8:51
Scott, I will say that it's it's one of those things obviously how we go to market first it is it is the first ever private branded analog penciling on the market. So it is unique and so we were able to bring that to market. I will say without getting into the nuts and bolts of it is really due to partnership with with Novo Nordisk, and the US bringing our assets together to Lord O to lower their costs. It is we have focused on the cash payment customer because we know that there are a lot of people today that still don't have insurance, this that really challenged by the high prices of insulin. And so we've been able to partner remove that cost and again pass it directly on to the to the customers and what it does is it allows those savings to be used for things like healthy foods or everyday household essential so we do take your insurance so we take all major insurances within our Walmart pharmacies, and what you can then come to Walmart and understand that you know When you use your insurance, and this is one that is prescription, so when you run your prescription, if you have insurance, we'll we will give you the lowest price your insurance does. And if you don't have insurance, you can see the savings of $100 $1 $250.04 bucks. And we believe that that's going to revolutionize accessibility and affordability around,

Scott Benner 10:21
I would say so. So the real struggle here is to get out to people. This is why I asked you to come on because the in my mind this is the real struggle is to get to people and tell them if I'm holding a vial of insulin from Walmart that says, you know, rely on Nova log on it and I'm holding a vial of insulin, it says no vlog on it. I am holding the same thing right down to the molecule. Absolutely, yeah. Yeah. And I happen to know that's true. With this with this announcement, I just, it feels like something probably people couldn't believe. And I have to tell you that some of the questions I got really, like, I'll tell you might, they might even make you chuckle because you're so aware of it. But, you know, someone asked, Is this FDA approved? You know, like someone said, Would you give this to your children like these were the kinds of questions I got, because that was the type of fear that this is not the same thing. That other people I'm making air quotes other people with insurance are allowed to have. But this is the exact same thing. And I went to my wife who many years ago worked at Novo Nordisk, and I asked her about this and she says, she said, yeah, this has been like, you know, in the making for quite some time. And I was like, okay, she's like, it's the same stuff. I was like, Okay, I'm gonna have him on to talk about that. So it's not a generic, it's not see people's fear are going to be that you that you have, you guys are in a bathtub pharmacist over at Walmart. And you, you've you is something's going on generic and you're making a generic and this is coming right from wherever Novo Nordisk is making novolog they're making your insulin as well.

Warren Moore 11:57
Yes, that is correct. And one of the things that, you know, we talk about whether it's, you know, with insulin, whether it's with generic, so, you think about us as a company, we've had a history around, lowering the price, and saving people money so they can live better. It goes back to, like you said, we've had a reliable suite of products that have been there, we've had a $4 generic list, which again, FDA approved, saying, manufacturer go into any other generic that you would get for your blood pressure, or your cholesterol. And, and, and so this is an extension of that. I will say this to Scott, I am a former, I guess, let's say, white coat pharmacist for Walmart as well. And so I've been with the company now 19 years. And I have I have, you know, always had respect for for my peers and a pharmacist we employ in our company. And I think a lot of people got a chance to experience it even more then doing doing this COVID vaccination Ron that we've had. And so, you know, pharmacists have been important part of the continuum they will do, and bite us, we talked about being in medically underserved areas, not only do we want them to have reach from immunizations reach from being a part of the community, we need to give them you know, products that can help remove barriers, like rely on overlong insulin, that again, allow them the suite of services at their fingertips to beta offer, when they talk to the patient and a doctor around the care. We want to give them the tools to do it. And so, yeah, we know that that's why we want to come on and continue to tell their story that this is the exact same product, that they're we are not changing anything we're just in partnership with, with no one notice able to bring this to market. And again, an exclusive offering at Walmart.

Scott Benner 13:53
And I'm glad you did because as you're talking, I looked up at someone's question, very earnest question. Have you made a change to the product? So you could price it lower? Is there less volume? And that's the I know the answer is no. I'll let you say it out loud in a second. But I think that's it really is indicative of what happens when you tell somebody I'm going to I can give you something cheaper than you have been able to find it before. Is this a pure? Speaking of volume, is it is it because you're going to buy so much of it that it can be cheaper? I mean, I guess you're maybe not allowed to tell me exactly how you guys work the prices out, but I want to I want to do something for people's, because it's hard. Like I love what you're saying. But I think it's hard for people to hear and then just swallow like oh, you just want to do a nice thing. But it's a bigger idea at Walmart, right? Like you guys. You guys kind of get a bad rap a little bit like you said something earlier about being would you say 90% of Americans are within 10 miles of a Walmart or something like that. Is that what you said okay. And so I think it's easy when you're involved in something Like I I'll speak for the people I believe are listening to the podcast, like, you know, people have access to technology that is cutting edge, they mostly have insulin, they have insurance. This is a side of the world I don't think they know exists very much that there are people who are, you know, maybe unable to follow simple basic orders from their doctors because they can't afford any of this stuff. It's it's really lovely that it's been handled like this. Can I ask, do you have a Basal insulin? Like, did you work with them? to try to get a Basal insulin at a lower price as well? Is there any plans for that?

Warren Moore 15:40
Scott, as we think about that, I will say that we are always looking as a company for ways to continue to innovate. And so we're open to conversations with others too, who are looking to do the same. And, and, you know, when you you mentioned a minute ago, around Walmart, in how people experience us, I often say that if you could be an I was a really listened to how much we truly talk about making that flywheel work, how do we lower costs to lower prices, to serve Americans every day, people will be astonished. And so it's not a game. It's not a gimmick, it's who we are, and our DNA. And, and so with that history that we've had, with a desire to continue to innovate, we will continue to look forward to new solutions. So our customers can access their care, you know, they both want and deserve and, and when you think about making diabetes products affordable. And the more choices that we can have, when patients get with their doctors again and give with their medical team, we know that each individual responds uniquely to different therapies and treatments. And so we want to have the largest suite of services that we can for for our customers, we actually there are 3 million people who live with diabetes, who trust us every month at Walmart to serve. And so we will continue to, to do our best to innovate and bring solutions to market.

Scott Benner 17:18
Do you do you cover a wide range of health insurances? Like, can you think of a company who you can accept? Or do you accept? How does that work?

Warren Moore 17:27
Yeah, we accept all the major insurances across so in in the major ones that you can, you can think from the blues, etc. We can we accept those. And so yeah, bring your insurance there we, we say that we have a hap I guess I can talk about the company how easy it is to to do business with us too. We have a Walmart app where people can go on and create a profile. And they can request to transfer their prescriptions to Walmart. That way, they can come into our stores, we talked about the proximity within communities so they can come into our stores and, and visit us at the counter and meet our great team. We have drive thru pharmacies and a lot of our locations, especially on labor market locations, as well as some of our super centers, we do curbside. So we started standing up curbside during the pandemic. So if a individual don't want to come into the store, we can bring it out to your car. And we can also mail it a whole new to have mail order. So we try to make it easy we're trying to serve, we're trying to make sure that this is seamless, you can interact with us in different ways, how you choose. And what we want to do is be able to meet those. And so we're, we're striving every day to do just that.

Scott Benner 18:44
So yeah, so you do mail order to then.

Warren Moore 18:47
Yeah, yeah, we have a mail order form data, which is based off the insurance contracts we have. But we also are able to, at times when individual can't get out to actually mail it from our store to the home as well. So we Yeah, so we hope that, you know, innovation and things like that continue, as the rules and regulations change as more. You know, we become you know, more of a digital experience within healthcare as well. But yeah, we were able to mail it we weren't, we were literally looking for ways that we can we can strive to meet the needs of our customers, in a way they choose to shop with us.

Scott Benner 19:26
So at your pharmacies. If I if a person has type one diabetes, or type two diabetes, you have everything they would need. It's not like I gotta get this cheaper novalogic from you and I got to go somewhere else. You have it covered?

Warren Moore 19:41
That's correct. We have it covered. And so when you type one and type two, we talked about, you know, we have a $4 generic list and afford our generic list has been on the market guys approaching 15 years so so we have items like Metformin on there for four hours and 30 days. The player we, we talked about, rely on overlock. We have humanist and as well, we have the OTC so we have your test strips, you have meters, we have your glucose tablets and your alcohol wipes. So yes, you can come to us. And then when all else fails, if you have questions, you can come to our pharmacy counter and talk to our pharmacists, we will be happy to help answer the questions. Okay. And so yeah, we want to be that destination. And we strive each and every day to live up to the trust that our customers put in.

Scott Benner 20:36
I have a question that just popped into my head that I haven't told anybody I was gonna ask him because it just occurred to me now, but I'm sitting here thinking, if you got this accomplished, there must be other things you're trying to get accomplished, too. insulin pumps, glucose monitors, are you are you not allowed? I know, you're a publicly traded company. Right. But like, I like ask a different question a different way. That sounds like a good idea, doesn't it work?

Warren Moore 21:04
God you, you are, I will say that, you know, we we really are in a in a thralls of our health and wellness strategy. And, and again, trying to bring things that I would say, really promote equity within the system as well, because that's what one of the things that that happens to you is when price gets involved, and people can't afford their their products. So whether it's medication, whether it's, you know, they were Central's, they, they make choices, and we want to make sure we're thinking about communities, we're thinking about people in the communities, and we're doing it in ways that are sustainable. So we come to market with products like this, we don't do it, and they, they stay around for one or two years, we we keep them around. And so that'll be our continued focus of as to how we can bring forward solutions in ways that are sustainable. Do them in ways that promote equity. And when I say equity, we're considering, you know, where people are starting in life, and what do they need in order to, to achieve their best possible health outcomes? And, and so yeah, we're we're up to quite a bit as a company, and looking at the whole suite of healthcare and doing it in a ways that that, again, promotes trust that people understand in these communities. Yeah, where there, there are health deserts that we can we can we can play a part in and people achieving the best outcome,

Scott Benner 22:34
you could have just said, we're up quite a bit, I would have accepted that as an answer. No, it just occurred to me, like, you know, you, you went to a large company, you took a product that is out of reach for some people, and you brought the price or lower, why couldn't that happen with an insulin pump? Or with anything else? Like, obviously, whatever the business function that that goes towards making that happen? I don't see why that couldn't happen for other things as well. So I mean, you're doing it with, you know, but the other stuff, you're talking about test trips, and things like that, right. So, you know, that's exciting. How long does? Um, here's a question for you, maybe you can answer, if we were all sitting in a Walmart meeting today. And I said that out loud, no one had ever had the thought before. And, and we all agree, that's a great idea, from having that idea, to bringing more affordable products into the store. How long of a process is that?

Warren Moore 23:30
I will say, you know, as we think through process, there's always puts and takes around each decision, as we think through, you know, Walmart EAC you know, we make decisions and then obviously, the portfolio to to do the right things for for the consumers as well as the impact to us, right. So, we can continue to keep that flywheel going. And so, I will say that that process would win opinions, I will say what you have to have and that Scott again, are willing partners to come to come to the table, you have to have people who are who are like minded and trying to, to really save money and then and then you know, willing to disrupt the market. And so you know, we, we, it takes process, it takes work and it takes trust in these relationships and and so I would say that timetable depends on it.

Scott Benner 24:28
Yeah, so this this, this thing about the novolog insulin that we're talking about right here, it's not a one way street for you like you had the idea but they had to be willing is what is what you're saying to Okay. Is that price so the price I it's tough when everybody has different insurance. I know you can't just speak in a blanket way. But cash price Tell me again, for a vile

Warren Moore 24:53
gas price for ball $72.88 a box of pens $85 Isn't at 80 cents

Scott Benner 25:01
versus what the cash price would be for someone who doesn't have health insurance, but then you might, I might hand my health insurance card to you ask for a vial of this insulin and find out it cost me $20 or $10 or 40. Like it could be less than the 72, depending on my insurance.

Warren Moore 25:19
That's correct. So because this is by prescription, we will run it through your insurance. And we will make sure that individual gets the lowest price. So that's what makes you know, to ensure that the product can do a whole segment of Teflon Scott different insurances. But yeah, we wanted to have an A an offering. So if someone has insurance, and they're paying a copay, that's lor, great, we want to continue to make sure that you are compliant on it, that you're managing your career the same for someone who is challenged with, with, you know, again, the price and economics of taking care of their condition, we wanted to have an offering there as well. So again, we it's it's, you, you can come in and say you're going to get the lowest price. Because based on what your insurance allows you if they were worth the cash price with the lowest on the market. And so you can come in and trust that you will get that.

Scott Benner 26:17
So if if a person is hearing this and thinking, well, I buy novolog, and I pay this much for it. I don't know how this is gonna go, but can they call? Do they have to come into a store? Like how do they find out if this is a valuable decision for them to make? Like, I think it's obvious for people who are paying cash, this is just a no brainer. But But if I'm in that other situation, how do I find out if this is a good idea for me?

Warren Moore 26:43
Yeah, for people bancaires I'm thinking come call and do that. For those with insurance, we will we will, at this point need a prescription to process it. Just based on how we do we don't we don't run test claims that way. So we have to bring it in have a prescription to it. And so I will say that the best price if you're if your copay is, is less than the cash price. You know, you won't be won't pay that you will pay your copay. But if it's if you're paying out or you're wondering how the ADA be this cash price will be there. And then, you know, again, come and talk and as you're as you're there, I would say experience our team because I think it's the it's the hose we Scott it's it's not only having, you know, quality medications at low affordable prices, but it's the cure you get from from your pharmacist there, it's the this the days we have an OTC and so I think that's what gets me excited is knowing that our our teams are out there talking about it, our teams get a chance to interact with customers who may not know. And so if you have any questions, I will say, say everyone calling in so even if you if you have insurance, you want to know more about it. Call me and speak to our pharmacist, and we'll be sure to should ask you a question.

Scott Benner 28:10
Okay. And so if I were to put my, my script through, and I thought oh, this isn't any better, you just wouldn't fill it. And I would just keep doing what I was doing. It's not like it's not something I would get caught up in if I if it wasn't what I wanted.

Warren Moore 28:22
No, I'm probably not the so that the patient isn't in control or where they get it. Get it feel that we you know, we we believe that if you if you come to us and give us give us a try you you'll love our team there but yeah, no, we we won't keep it we won't take you take it hostage anything we will we will just ensure that we answer all your questions. Okay.

Scott Benner 28:43
Now I just want to make sure I had everybody's questions covered. Is there anything that I haven't asked you that I should have?

Warren Moore 28:51
Now Scott, I appreciate the opportunity. And I think that what you're doing here to bring gold to the spill any any myths about the incident there we appreciate and we are doing the same thing I want people to know that that you know just who we are as a company and what we're trying to do and and again, it's it's been a part of our history, there is who we are excited about this and I will say you know we talked about the price of it. The other thing is we're excited about this most people here know about analog though we're excited about you know, you can you understand the duration and a piece better and the action on it. So it makes it great for meal time dosing. We also have Nick's as well, so it's, it's exciting. Thanks for for bringing it on and happy to join you here happy to what you're doing for the audience here and I look forward to future conversations and become I would be lovely. I

Scott Benner 29:48
just I just realized that. I mean, you know, there are other insulins that you guys sell, right and it's, you know, within the diabetes community, I don't know if You're aware of this or not. So within the diabetes community prior to this announcement, that the term Walmart insulin meant, it's a cheaper insulin, it doesn't work as well, you know, like, this is what they're selling. And I just thought, like, I don't know how they're going to get over this hump in people's minds, you know that. And it's cool. Like it was, I mean, if I'm guessing it was probably the the insulin, you were able to make a deal with somewhere and get it in there. And it was probably a really big deal for the people who were using it, I would think it's amazing for them, especially if they couldn't find anything before. But I couldn't figure out how people who already were thinking of it in that light, were going to be able to make the leap in their minds that no, this is, this is no vlog. And I just didn't know without talking to you how to do that, because I've seen articles that explain it perfectly. And yet, every time I hear from somebody, they say, Oh, that's insulin you don't want I'm like, No, I think they've done a whole new thing here. You know, like, let's figure it out. So it was very kind of you to come on and, and talk about it. I really do appreciate it, especially on a Friday afternoon. Because, you know, we're winding down here.

Warren Moore 31:05
Scott and I would say that the last thing on that one of the things that I don't want individuals to walk away thinking that even our humans, we're talking about analog today, but even our human insulin is is in partnership. With Novo Nordisk as well, so so how people understand this is what you can trust, the big note is that people shouldn't switch between the two, of course, if you own an analog and humanism, without consulting your position, yeah, and so and so that's the message there, but know that we anything that we bring the market will be helped da approved quality products that you can trust. And but this one, yeah, this analog instrument is B. Yeah, it's unique. And we're, we're excited to be able to bring it tomorrow.

Scott Benner 31:53
Listen, you know, for people who've had diabetes for a long time, they know that there's been, you know, insulin, and then improvements on insulin and improvements on insulin. And analog is the fastest acting, you know, it's the best you can do right now. Like it just is. And it gets into that kind of, you start hearing people say, Well, just because somebody can't afford it doesn't mean they should have the last generation of insulin. And that's where that sort of gets. I don't know what I think it riles some people up and maybe rightfully so. Right. But it's not that's not a Walmart conversation. It's a it's a state of the world conversation. Really, it's a it's a bigger, more existential conversation. I just love that you guys have this analog now that it's not a generic it's not, you know, you didn't meet four guys in Arkansas, and they said that you could make insulin. This is the stuff you know, so if this can be this stuff, and it can be my rough numbers are slightly over $100 less per vial cash price for just the vial. And what did you say? How much cheaper for the pens 250 to 250 here God, that's a lot of money. Okay. All right. I'm glad you're here. This is fantastic. Thank you. What else? What else you guys got over there. I might come over.

Warren Moore 33:11
We walk you down when it is? Hopefully it's you know, we don't get too much further in this pandemic. But if you ever want to come down we welcome you down to Arkansas Scott. Oh, wait a minute.

Scott Benner 33:21
I randomly said Arkansas. Are you actually in Arkansas? Right. Well, you thought I knew that. I yeah. I just picked the state out of my head real quick. I like I wanted people to realize that you didn't bump into five guys that were like we can make insulin to you know, like it was coming right from the place. How did I pick our consult? How is random?

Warren Moore 33:43
Yeah, that's what we were base.

Scott Benner 33:44
Oh, you know how I picked it. This is crazy. I just put an episode up with a razor back that just got drafted. That's how like I went from one computer doing that work to turn to talk to you and that's where I got and I and there's a picture of him in front of me and he's in an Arkansas Razorbacks you Wow, the mines that crazy thing, isn't it? And then you're in Arkansas, but I freaked me out. Okay, that's enough of this, this episode's ever. I really appreciate Warren coming on the show today and explaining about the new insulin at Walmart rely on novolog. Same molecule, same insulin, same size, same stuff. Different cash price, check it out at Walmart. They're not a sponsor. By the way. They didn't pay me to be here. I just thought this was amazing information for you to have. And I hope I was right. Before we go, let me tell you again about touched by type one. Their mission is to elevate awareness of type one diabetes, raise funds to find a cure and inspire those with diabetes to thrive, touched by type one.org also on Instagram and Facebook Spot