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Podcast Episodes

The Juicebox Podcast is from the writer of the popular diabetes parenting blog Arden's Day and the award winning parenting memoir, 'Life Is Short, Laundry Is Eternal: Confessions of a Stay-At-Home Dad'. Hosted by Scott Benner, the show features intimate conversations of living and parenting with type I diabetes.

Filtering by Category: Dexcom

#603 Grandma Heidi

Scott Benner

Heidi was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes over forty years ago.

You can always listen to the Juicebox Podcast here but the cool kids use: Apple Podcasts/iOS - Spotify - Amazon MusicGoogle Play/Android - iHeart Radio -  Radio PublicAmazon Alexa or wherever they get audio.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 603 of the Juicebox Podcast.

today's podcast brings us a 40 year veteran of the fight with type one diabetes. Heidi was diagnosed when she was nine years old. And she's here today to tell you all about it. While Heidi is talking, and I'm being delightful, I need you to remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan, or becoming bold with insulin. Are you looking for the diabetes pro tip episodes? At the moment? They started episode 210. Go back in your podcast episodes machine, the podcast app and take a look. They're also available at juicebox podcast.com. And diabetes pro tip.com. I said at the moment because I'm toying with re releasing them still trying to figure out if it's a good idea or not. But they're always they'll always be where they're at now, Episode 210 is where they start. You'll see there's a list at diabetes pro tip.com. You you'll you'll figure it out. And if you're interested in community, check out the private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes.

Oh, this is my last ad for 2021. Oh, I'm so excited. I'm finished. You don't know what it's like to get a well maybe know what it's like but an assignment on January 1, to make over 300 live ads for seven companies, six or seven. There's a lot of them. And I'm done. This is it like I've not done like Oh, I'm glad I'm done with that. But like I actually completed it. It's a big deal. For me, I'm the kind of person who you would have you know, give it a book report to an 11th grade and they never would have done it. So I'm proud of myself. So we put a real good effort into this one. Not that they all don't get a good effort. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by touched by type one, please go find them on Instagram, Facebook, and it touched by type one.org touched by type one's mission is to elevate awareness of type one diabetes, raise funds to find a cure and inspire those with diabetes to thrive. You really should check out what they're doing at touched by type one.org. And let me thank them personally for being longtime sponsors of the podcast. Okay, here comes Heidi. By the way, there's gonna be two more episodes this week. These are just the last of the ads. Let's try this again. Hi, how are you? Hi. Oh, everyone your name?

Heidi Wickstrom 2:53
Heidi Wickstrom.

Scott Benner 2:56
Heidi, what makes you want to be on the podcast?

Heidi Wickstrom 3:00
Wow. Well, I guess 40 years of being a diabetic and knowing lots of moms that have little ones that have always come to me and ask questions. And I felt like maybe I could give some advice to others or just some knowledge. Experience.

Scott Benner 3:18
I like it. Yeah. So 40 years ago, you're held now 49 Okay, so when you're nine years old, in

Heidi Wickstrom 3:28
1980 ish. Anyone? Yeah.

Scott Benner 3:31
Wow. Now that was to me. That's that's that's still Dark Ages, right? That's yeah, cloudy. Yeah. No meat or stuff like that? No. Do you remember much of it? Do I do? What sticks out in your mind when I say what's it like growing up a diabetes?

Heidi Wickstrom 3:51
Well, I mean, I have a vivid memory of when I found out. Do you want to hear that story? Tell me more. So Well, first, let me preface that with my dad was also type one from the age of seven. Okay. So my mom was kind of always on the lookout, I guess for one of us to get it possibly. But I remember sitting at a park with my family drinking a coke or soda of some kind. And my mom's next thing I know, I'm at the doctor's office, getting blood work done. And they sit me down like literally in the office like she's behind a desk, the doctor and tells us this news like it's, you know, like you have diabetes, like it's this big announcement. You know, it's very serious. And immediately I had to go home, pack my bags and go to the hospital. Like it was that fast. And just because of my dad I knew that meant shots and so I was devastated because I wanted nothing to do with needles, like every nine year old and then I was in the hospital for either A week. You know, being poked and prodded and get my blood drawn every gosh, I felt like it was every hour.

Scott Benner 5:10
You're in the hospital for a week when you're nine before iPads existed where the? Yes, yes. Would you do? Yeah. Yeah. stare at a wall. Is that what you do? Just stare at the wall?

Heidi Wickstrom 5:22
Yeah, no, I just remember being constantly like poked like people were always coming in and you know, drawing blood giving insulin. You know? I remember seeing my dad on the floor fainting. Weight in the hospital room. Yeah, he would faint when they come draw my blood.

Scott Benner 5:41
Your father a lifelong type one couldn't watch you get blood draws? Yes, he's still with us. He is not Oh, cuz if he was gonna listen to this, I was gonna make fun of them so I could hear it. Sorry,

Heidi Wickstrom 5:53
but you can make fun of me too. I have to lay down and I get my blood taken. I'm a danger. Oh, no kidding. Yeah, no, I always have to lay down that my feet have to be up and otherwise I'm down on the ground.

Scott Benner 6:02
Is it when you see the blood? I know cuz

Heidi Wickstrom 6:05
I don't watch. I never watch it just it's just literally I don't know. They'd say it's psychological. I feel like it's more like the blood leaving my body but

Scott Benner 6:14
I definitely feel that's wrong. Do you get faint when anything else poke show?

Heidi Wickstrom 6:20
Ah, no. It's just about losing blood.

Scott Benner 6:24
Gotcha. So it's the dual blood. Gotcha. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Okay, so your dad's passing out hospital? Yes. Passing

Heidi Wickstrom 6:31
out. And then I gotta remember, they couldn't find veins on me. So they were like putting IVs like up, like in my upper forearm?

Scott Benner 6:41
Yeah, like awful places. Yeah, that doesn't seem fun at all. Now, I'm gonna ask a tough question. If you don't have an answer, it's fine. If you don't want to answer it's fine. Okay. Do you find yourself feeling resentful towards your father? No, no. You ever feel like that's the guy that gave me diabetes? No, never. I wouldn't think so. I just wanted to ask. Yeah, no, no. Okay. It's cool. Because I always wonder that when? When we're having I think I've never asked anybody before.

Heidi Wickstrom 7:10
Yeah, I think he felt that way. But I literally remembering one day actually saying it to him. Like, just so you know, I don't blame you. Well, yeah. I don't know what made me say that. But I do remember vividly saying that to him.

Scott Benner 7:22
You could feel his his guilt.

Heidi Wickstrom 7:24
Yeah, I think so. It's interesting, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah.

Scott Benner 7:29
I think parents feel like that about almost everything. Oh, I'm sure. Yeah. Any little thing you can see in your kids that they don't seem to be happy about, or you wish they didn't have? And you're like, Oh, I did that which is right. Right. But it's hard not to feel that way. It's true. Okay. So you're now taking the shots. You wait. And so giving yourself shots? No problem.

Heidi Wickstrom 7:51
Well, okay, so I was nine. So my mom, another thing I remember. She had to be taught how to give me shots. And the very first time ever, we're in the hospital, and she sticks the needle in my like, inner thigh. And, and then says, Now what, and then pulls it back out, which

Scott Benner 8:13
we'll try again in a second. I should have thought through before we win.

Heidi Wickstrom 8:17
I'm like, Oh my god. So anyway, so my mom gave me shots till I was 12. And I started doing it myself.

Scott Benner 8:24
I got better at it, I imagine.

Heidi Wickstrom 8:26
Yeah. And you practice on oranges. You know, the whole week. You're there,

Scott Benner 8:31
right? Yeah, yeah, we had to practice on bananas. But yeah, I felt bad for the banana every time we threw it. Seriously, that's how broke I was growing up. Every time we threw the banana away. I was like, Oh, well did the hospital visit cost? Like, you know, 50 grand, and I didn't think anything of that. I was like, Well, look, you wasted a lot of bananas in this situation. We just cut a part off of it. And here's that it just seems unfair to the banana consent. Well, your mom haggis had never given your father an injection. No, I guess not. I never asked. But I bet your dad gave your nevermind. Stop it. So but um, Tom? Yeah. How many how do you have any brothers or sisters?

Heidi Wickstrom 9:12
I have a yes. An older brother. Five years older. Okay.

Scott Benner 9:15
Any diabetes there? Nope. Interest nowhere else. Any autoimmune stuff anywhere?

Heidi Wickstrom 9:23
Um, I mean, I also have asthma. We call it autoimmune. But, but now me my brother's totally healthy. We had more we had like, type two on my dad's side, but no other type ones.

Scott Benner 9:38
Are you? Do you think your brother feels guilty? No. You don't think so? He's like, Yeah, whatever. Oh, no. In fact, he'll

Heidi Wickstrom 9:46
say to me now he's Oh my god. He'll say to me like, I'm totally healthy. There's nothing wrong with me. Like good for you.

Scott Benner 9:56
Hey, you want to hear something from the NIH asthma and autoimmune diseases both result from a dysregulated immune system and have been conventionally considered to have mutually exclusive pathogens. autoimmunity is believed to be an exaggerated th one response while asthma with a th two underpinning is congruent with the well accepted th one th two paradigm. Well, there's a lot

Heidi Wickstrom 10:21
of words. Yeah, that's that's exactly what I was gonna tell you. But I didn't think you'd understand.

Scott Benner 10:24
Yeah, I appreciate you trying to save me on that one. But I, I was just gonna say that. I think they're kind of connected somehow. Yeah, me too. Yeah. There's a lot of things people come on here and talk about that are starting to repeat. And I realized it's sort of anecdotal still, because, yeah, just talking to people. But I don't know how many people have to tell you they have type one and they're bipolar before you start thinking like, Hmm, that's interesting. You mean or type? Yeah. And I have really bad allergies, or I have

Heidi Wickstrom 10:51
Crohn's disease and brains,

Scott Benner 10:53
etc, etc. Before you start. I got this. I see what's happening here. Yeah. Okay. So your brother treated you like any older brother would have treated you in any situation? Do you? Did you ever have any anger at him that he wasn't sick? Or

Heidi Wickstrom 11:08
now? Remember that? No. Okay.

Scott Benner 11:11
So then what was management? like day to day? Was it just really just shooting twice a day?

Heidi Wickstrom 11:16
Yeah, no. So it was like mph in the morning? And at night, I believe. And then regular before every meal. Okay, it was literally like, I mean, it was, you know, you had to eat breakfast at seven. You had to have lunch at noon, and you had to have dinner at six or whatever. Or your blood sugar would go at Nana's Right. which I hated. Because what if I wasn't hungry? Right?

Scott Benner 11:40
Shoot on a scale. And you know, choice. Just everything. Shoot, schedule, eat schedule. Yeah, yeah, my

Heidi Wickstrom 11:47
mom, I guess in your Sunday, I don't remember is that I assume she'd had to come to school and give me shots because the nurses there were no nurses giving me shots. So I don't remember that. So I'm kind of surprised.

Scott Benner 11:58
Maybe she shot in the morning before you left?

Heidi Wickstrom 12:01
Maybe But what about lunch? I don't know. I don't remember. I have to ask her that she only worked like a mile from school.

Scott Benner 12:07
Yeah, but you're thinking about how you probably managed now. Like I think in the beginning, you just put in a bunch a breakfast made sure to eat lunch. Yeah, I'm then shot again before dinner. Right?

Heidi Wickstrom 12:16
Yeah. Because I mean, you couldn't check your blood sugar. I had to go get my blood drawn to know my blood sugar. Yeah, and just check your ketones, right. I mean, that's really all you could do

Scott Benner 12:26
you do that frequently?

Heidi Wickstrom 12:28
I feel like I did. Yeah. Wow. Yeah.

Scott Benner 12:31
Do you know what the result of that kind of care pattern was like, did you take a onesies? Do you know what they were?

Heidi Wickstrom 12:37
Oh, yeah. That was awful. It was awful. It was like in the teens.

Scott Benner 12:41
Wow. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I don't know if everybody understands how numbers work but teens started 13. Yeah, okay. Yeah, like there's no 1213 or 17 or anything up there. And and did you know you didn't feel well? Or did you feel okay,

Heidi Wickstrom 13:01
you know, I don't remember thinking I didn't feel well. Which is weird to me. Because now when I see I have a friend whose daughter is eight and she'll tell me the craziest stories she's going through their blood sugar's and I'm like, God, she must feel awful. Because I am I know how I feel. Now. If I'm high. Yeah, but I don't remember feeling I felt like high was my norm. Then when I was younger, well that's why

Scott Benner 13:26
it felt okay. Because your body does Yeah, little adjustments the vessels and things so that you don't you feel normal at that blood sugar, but still all the all the bad long term stuff is going Did you have any short term problems?

Heidi Wickstrom 13:37
No knock on wood. And I've made one DKA when I was probably somewhere in my teens again.

Scott Benner 13:47
I was gonna say like, 17 about about it. Yeah,

Heidi Wickstrom 13:50
no, I was younger, because I remember just I think my mom thought I had the flu because I was like vomiting. But I remember vividly having a lot of stomach pain and had like laboring to breathe. Yeah. And obviously, eventually I went to the hospital. That's what it was.

Scott Benner 14:07
You should never get that far when you were diagnosed because your mom saw some.

Heidi Wickstrom 14:10
No, no. That makes sense. None of the weight loss none of that stuff. Yeah, she

Scott Benner 14:15
she saw it really early because she was probably Yeah, she's watching for Iraq. Yeah, she

Heidi Wickstrom 14:19
said it was the thirst and urination. You know, having to go the bathroom really thirsty, having another bathroom? And I'm like, yep.

Scott Benner 14:25
So can we jump over for a second? Yeah, they're probably managed similarly. Say guys again. Your father. He probably managed himself similar to? Yes. Yeah. For his entire life. He never switched. No. How old? Was he when he passed? 66. Interesting. Yeah, how old were you when you switched over to a faster acting insulin?

Heidi Wickstrom 14:48
Oh, faster. Gosh, that I couldn't tell you. I just remember when I switched to a pump. Probably like, I don't remember.

Scott Benner 14:54
So did you do two shots a day until the pump?

Heidi Wickstrom 14:58
I didn't know I was doing like five or six. Next. Oh, so

Scott Benner 15:01
you started doing multiple daily injections in there? Yeah. Yeah. You know how old you were when that happened ish? Yeah, I

Heidi Wickstrom 15:07
was like, 30 Wow,

Scott Benner 15:09
I'm gonna do some more math. That's 21 years of doing it the other way.

Heidi Wickstrom 15:13
You're sorry. We're sorry. I was like, 30 When I went to a pump, so sorry. Um, so I was probably 20.

Scott Benner 15:21
See, that's my guess is if you were nine, yeah, one, then by 88 or so. I got to feel like you're, that's when those insulin started coming up. Hey, I'm sorry. I'm following a woman. Blood sugar right now. Give me a second to look at it. Yeah, she's saying, Okay, it's Taco Time. But I gotta change my site. I'm gonna take a full four years. I've left it and then the other one, I changed it in five minutes. But it's hard to be a little more aggressive because of the change because of the slight change and being in exercise mode. Do not everybody sent me an email and asked me to help you with your blood sugar just because I did this while I was recording. This woman hit all my good heartstrings. All right, and she's been very cool. She's also listens, by the way, okay. Not like some of you who I help and you're like, Are you sure? Like, I'm more sure than you are? I might not be sure. But I saw your graph and you called and you don't know what you're doing. So why don't we give it a shot? What I'm saying. Anyway, yeah. So your father never switches you probably around your late teens early 20s start doing MDI you do MDI for 10 years.

Heidi Wickstrom 16:49
So age nine till I was 30.

Scott Benner 16:52
Yeah, well, I mean, you know, it's funny isn't that funny? I think multiple Oh, you mean

Heidi Wickstrom 16:56
multiple daily inject? Got

Scott Benner 16:57
it? Yeah. No,

Heidi Wickstrom 16:59
I mean, to me, they're always multiple right?

Scott Benner 17:02
To is multiple so. So you've done multiple daily injections the whole time? You started with a faster acting mealtime insulin, right around 20 years old. Did that for 10 years. Did you ever have a CGM in those 10 years? No. Do you now? Yes. Interesting. So you got a pump when you were 30? Yeah. And that was a couple of years ago. Isn't it suck when you think of your life like this? Oh my god, I can't I hate this. I hate talking like this. I'm going to be 50 next month. I'm like, oh, yeah,

Heidi Wickstrom 17:31
so you're worse. So we're, yeah, so we're close in age. Yeah.

Scott Benner 17:33
But it sucks. Like, you know, does suck talking about the 80s like it was 30 years ago.

Heidi Wickstrom 17:38
I know. And I have a teenager who's dressing like it's the 90s the 90s like okay, this is all coming back. I said did you buy a toe ring yet? Or an anklet?

Scott Benner 17:48
We don't post yourself Heather Locklear come back. Okay, that's gonna be a problem, Benoit. That might that might not the modern that's not gonna happen. might not like that. Yeah, they like their naked ladies on the screen, not hung up on a wall. I tried to explain to my son one time that I worked in a sheetmetal shop when I was a kid. And yeah, there were posters of half naked or naked women everywhere in that place. And he's like, and no one said anything. I said Cole, it was so incredibly common. I don't think anyone thought anything of it. And no, to watch him not be able to wrap his head around that. And then I realized now at then being, you know, removed from it for quite some time. I was like, wow, that was so incredibly wrong. Like it's just, like, so inappropriate and wrong and crazy. And, like Mike, like, there was a woman that worked there in the office and she had to walk. You know what I mean? And none of it

Heidi Wickstrom 18:46
was just like my, my brother having posters in his bedroom, right? Look, what what would it be Christie Brinkley or? Yeah, Paulina Porizkova. Not he has a sister who wasn't getting care care or a mother

Scott Benner 18:57
and people who have never seen these posters. These girls were wearing nothing. They barely Yeah,

Heidi Wickstrom 19:02
it was strange. Let me see no Sports Illustrated Swimsuit cover sheets.

Scott Benner 19:06
I don't think they do anymore either, by the way. No, they don't. Yeah. And I'm not saying there's no right or like, well, maybe I am saying maybe we were wrong back then. But I think it's easier to say that it's interesting to watch people progress, right? Or to notice things that were like you know what, that wasn't a good idea. We'll stop doing that. Or technology changes so you move along like I mean, honestly magazines with scantily clad women. There used to be an unlimited supply of them. There must have been 40 of them on a news Oh, yeah. And people listening don't even know what a newsstand is. And you know and and my point I guess it was a weird segue but yeah, you went through the cloudy and the all that stuff into the you know into the fast track the meal insulin then to a pump, then eventually to a CGM, but your father never came along with it. It missed it

Heidi Wickstrom 19:56
now. Well, you know what he also whenever Think of my dad I think of he was literally if you looked up diabetes and everything that could go wrong, it was my dad. Okay. Like he, you know, his vision, he lost a leg he lost toes. He, you know, I mean everything, you know, eventually kidney failure heart, you know all that stuff. Well, it didn't take care of himself.

Scott Benner 20:22
So that was he not doing what the minimum of what they were asking him to do.

Heidi Wickstrom 20:28
I literally just think he took ish the same amount of insulin every every time and just ate and drank and, you know, he liked his beer.

Scott Benner 20:39
He was just gonna write this out like I got diabetes. Let's see how far how long I can stay on this ball is that

Heidi Wickstrom 20:45
yeah, it was I don't know. I just think stubborn. You know, some some men are stubborn.

Scott Benner 20:49
Okay, some women are stubborn. There's one of them below me on another floor, the structure. I think some people can be stubborn, but

Heidi Wickstrom 21:00
But I remember when it by the time I started mentioning like a pump. Like when I had mine. He was already like his fingers. He wouldn't even be able to like, I don't think he could do it. Like he you know, he had lots of trigger finger, which I've had too. But so he has a lot of you know, his fingers like cramping. And I don't know, I just felt like it was too late. When just sad to say how old

Scott Benner 21:24
were you when you realized he could be doing a different thing?

Heidi Wickstrom 21:31
I guess when he started having stuff go wrong. So like he lost his leg at 50? The year 2000. So Wow. 57 I think he was

Scott Benner 21:42
did that frighten you? Person? Oh,

Heidi Wickstrom 21:44
yeah. Oh, yeah. No, he's the one that made me go. You know, this is not, you know, this is serious business. I've got it, you know, really take care of myself.

Scott Benner 21:55
Good for you. I'm just working now on getting a behavioral scientist to come on and talk about something called sunk cost fallacy. You know what that is? No. It describes I'm going to read right off the internet for you. A sunk cost fallacy describes our tendency to follow through on an endeavor, if we have already invested time, effort or money into it, whether or not the current costs outweigh the benefits. It's an economic idea that also comes into psychology a little bit. Yeah, I think it's, I think it relates significantly to people who were diagnosed in the 80s, or before. Yeah, with type one. And I'm concerned, why I'm going to talk about now on the podcast, that one day, as hard as it might be to believe at this moment, there may be a better way than what we're doing now. And that people might feel so invested in what they've already done, that they feel like there's just no reason to try. And so I'm going to have someone come on and talk about it. Because I think it's a I think it's a paralysis that you kind of get right, you know, well, I'm sorry, I'm sorry for you. You know, for that, I can tell you that. I think what happened to him is fairly common for people diagnosed when he was oh, yeah, lifespan, etc.

Heidi Wickstrom 23:12
So like, 1950 Yeah, yeah.

Scott Benner 23:14
Was it a heart attack in the end? You know,

Heidi Wickstrom 23:17
it and he just, it was systemic, like just systemic infection everywhere. Like, everything just shut down. Yeah.

Scott Benner 23:25
So he has an amputation. And then you think, tell me again, with this insulin pump is is that was it about it?

Heidi Wickstrom 23:33
Yeah, I don't. I'm trying to think if I had it at that time, maybe I hadn't had it yet.

Scott Benner 23:38
But something about his health push.

Heidi Wickstrom 23:40
Yeah, that was Yeah, because I mean, long story short, I mean, this leg amputation started with an a blister on his heel. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. And by the time he called me, we weren't, you know, my parents. Sorry. My parents were divorced when I was an infant. Okay, so, so we weren't close. We were close. We weren't super close. But anyway, he's the kind of guy that like, I got a phone call. And he says, I know we had a sore spot, but he's like, by the way, I'm having surgery tomorrow. They're taking my leg. He says, and they gave me 50% chance of making it through surgery. I'm like, I'm sorry. What?

Scott Benner 24:21
How far from you? Did you live?

Heidi Wickstrom 24:24
Well, he's in Palm Springs and I'm in Orange County so hour and a half.

Scott Benner 24:26
I love men born in that time in the in the world in the in that?

Heidi Wickstrom 24:34
What's the funny thing is I don't even think he called me I think I called to check in on him and he happened to tell me that's

Scott Benner 24:40
exactly what I'm talking about. Hey, Dad. Oh, we're gonna get on a plane and go kill some Nazis. What? Yeah, I'll be back or I won't. Don't worry about it. You know, just a real like,

Unknown Speaker 24:51
I don't even matter of fact.

Scott Benner 24:53
Oh my gosh, no big deal. We're in a world war. You stay with your mom. I'll see you later. Yeah,

Heidi Wickstrom 24:58
so I'm at work and so I rushing into my boss's office crying say I gotta

Scott Benner 25:03
go. cutting my dad's leg off. He didn't even want to tell me any, you might

Heidi Wickstrom 25:06
not make it. Yeah. You know what I mean, it was the craziest phone call ever. So you know, I drive to Palm Springs. But the crazy what I was getting to is, you know, I'm in there visiting my dad, the the wound care guy comes in and he says to me, you might want to leave when I change this bandage. And I'm like, okay, and he's like, the smell is pretty bad. He's or at least put a mask on. So put a mask on. And he literally took this bandage off and a half of my dad's butt was gone. Wow. Just from bacteria. Yeah. And high blood sugars. That's crazy.

Scott Benner 25:41
And it was crazy. And it was it was clear to you in that moment. I mean, I'm sure it was. But why why he was having this problem. Oh, yeah.

Heidi Wickstrom 25:48
I was like, oh my god, this is why you can't just take whatever shot you want and eat whatever you want. And just

Scott Benner 25:53
call it a day. Did you? Did you chastise them a little bit? Or were you able to hold it in?

Heidi Wickstrom 25:57
No, I mean, I, I just, you know, knew He was who He was. And yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's that was that interesting time anyway, he obviously he didn't pass that you made it through surgery. Everything was great. But I do have a funny story. So do you think you'd like funny stories,

Scott Benner 26:11
I have to tell you something it as weird as it might sound so that you can see into my brain a little bit. The preposterous nature of your father not calling you before that surgery is funny to me. The rest of the details are hard, you're like this, you're like this. Go ahead.

Heidi Wickstrom 26:25
So he's in pre op, he's about to go into surgery, you know, me and his, my step mom's there and my brother. And we're saying, Okay, you're gonna be great, you know, you're gonna do fine. And he's saying, Well, you know, just in case I don't make it goodbye, and I go, dad, you know, come on, have a good attitude, blah, blah. The next thing I swear to God, we hear a saw going on. I'm like, Oh, my God, what is that? I go around out of the curtain. And there's somebody literally signing something in the hallway of the hospital. And I look at him I go, my dad is about to get his leg amputated. Do you mind doing that later?

Scott Benner 27:05
Can you wait till I go out to like the waiting area before you start running a circular saw, please. It's literally I was like, we're just I mean, also for people a nice look back into the past. They're doing construction in an operating wing of the hospital. Like where it's people are still going and moving around. And no one no one would think twice about that

Heidi Wickstrom 27:26
you saw on some under the sink in the hallway, like a pipe or something. And I'm like, Oh, my God.

Scott Benner 27:31
Yeah. There's a time probably not 20 years before that, where the doctor would have stood there smoking a cigarette change in your file for sure. For sure. We really have it together, don't we?

Heidi Wickstrom 27:41
Oh, my God. We're not even that long ago, my senior trip to Cancun, we could smoke on the plane.

Scott Benner 27:47
Your high school your high school senior trip? Yes. Yes.

Heidi Wickstrom 27:51
I didn't smoke. But they were smoking

Scott Benner 27:53
it? Of course you didn't. You would never. But is that something? We wouldn't a school trip one time? I'm going to say no lie. We were in ninth grade. I don't know how old that makes you. But maybe 14 were the same. Yeah. Okay. And we go into Manhattan. Now, not the Manhattan of today, post COVID. And not the Manhattan of pre COVID where, you know, The Lion King runs around and there's that half naked guy and a cowboy hat playing a guitar and it's all fun. And you can go to Fuddruckers? Like not like that. Manhattan, like where you were there. And you're like, someone's gonna sell me drugs. You're trying to kill me? Like, let that level of Manhattan right. And we're gonna go to, you know, you think Oh, it's a school trip. They'll take you they'll have a you know, itinerary setup, you'll do thing we pull up three buses full of kids, boom, boom, boom, everybody gets out. We're standing on the sidewalk and the teacher goes, break up into groups be back here at 5pm. Can you imagine?

Heidi Wickstrom 28:56
Do you remember being scared? Were you scared? No. We

Scott Benner 28:58
were like, amazing. Let's go. Like, it was just like, you looked around for your four best friends and you're like, This is great. We're just free in New York City. And we had money in our pockets. And we were like, some kids came back high as a kite. One one kid came back had so many fireworks. I think he was trying to start a fireworks like Emporium when he got home. Kids were drunk. People like it was in sane and completely common and and realistic for the time period. Yes. I just told Arden the other day that when I was in elementary school, my entire school about 700 kids went to see I think The Empire Strikes Back in a movie theater.

Heidi Wickstrom 29:44
Oh my gosh,

Scott Benner 29:44
there was a movie theater. A five. Let's call it a five minute drive from the school. Okay, we all just went out in the front parking lot of the school got into a tandem line and walk they're like down round corners across streets like like Baby, Baby ducks, just, you know, that went on forever. And I said that to her and she goes, my school would never do that. They'd never let us do that. I was like, I know. And her friend goes, and we don't have any fun at all. And I was like, yeah, no. So different world, obviously different time for your father, he probably, I'm gonna guess, did what he was told what he was told wasn't that helpful. At some point, you get like, I guess this is what it is. I'm just gonna, like I said, get on this bowl and see how long I can stay on. Yeah, then things change over. But not in a way where anybody ever reached back to people they never, like, that's the, to me, that's the message of this this hour is that management comes in waves. And you can very easily get stuck in the wave that you were brought up in. And that that might be a great idea. Yeah. So alright, so how did you find having a pump

this is going to be short and sweet. Touched by type one.org. Go type it into a browser, and then look around, check out their programs, like their annual conference awareness campaign, both for cause dance program dancing for diabetes, their D box program, type one at school. There's a little link there for their upcoming events. And you can find out how to support them through donations, shopping, or becoming a volunteer touched by type one.org. That was that we're done.

Heidi Wickstrom 31:45
We loved it. I think the thing I love the most about it was so I went through, you know, stages of weight gain with shots, like and I finally figured out okay, like while I'm eating and I'm going hungry, right? Because I had to eat. And so when I got on the pump, I was like, wow, so I don't feel like I want a huge lunch at noon. I don't have to have it. Yeah. And if I want to just snack all day I can and that that was the part I liked the most about it.

Scott Benner 32:10
Just being able to eat like something like walk

Heidi Wickstrom 32:13
if you wanted to eat and you didn't have to eat or you could skip whatever. You know, I like I'm a snacker I like to snack. I don't like huge meals and I never really have. So that was the best part of it for me. Yeah, and of course my blood sugar's were awesome once I was on it,

Scott Benner 32:28
right? No one, no one puts a slice of pepperoni on a Ritz cracker if they've got to pull a needle out for it. Right? You're just like, I'll skip it. I'll wait on the bigger meal literally. Yeah. So that and and that's those are early pumps to so they were just kind of more efficient delivery systems that you didn't have to poke yourself for. Yeah, yeah. Right. You didn't use any kind of like, you weren't thinking about like extending boluses or that didn't even exist. I

Heidi Wickstrom 32:54
don't I feel like I did. But I don't know how long into it. I did. It was like a mini med. I think I had a mini med first and then I had like a paradigm and then I had a I had a few of them.

Scott Benner 33:04
Can you imagine people listening right now? We're like there's T slim and on the pod and Medtronic. What are you talking about? Me? Yeah, paradigm. You know what did that

Heidi Wickstrom 33:12
I think Medtronic was mini med. I believe that. Okay? Yeah.

Scott Benner 33:15
It's just interesting how the wording the word I know. I know. At what point in this does the CGM pop up?

Heidi Wickstrom 33:25
You know what that was? That was only probably let me think in the last seven years, really? Okay. So I don't know how long it's been around. How long have we had Dexcom? Okay, so

Scott Benner 33:42
if you're on a Dexcom, and it started with

Heidi Wickstrom 33:45
a four I think even five.

Scott Benner 33:48
Okay. Arden started with like the is the original Yeah, they whatever the original what they had their numbering system was messed up for a while, like there was for like a something plus I forget now they're in a in a numerical Dexcom four or five, six at sevens kind of be out. Your sevens coming? Yeah, yeah. Actually, by the time this comes out, I bet seven exists. Well,

Unknown Speaker 34:11
I'm excited. Yeah.

Scott Benner 34:13
Also, don't say that out loud to anybody, because I believe I've signed an NDA, but as long as you okay. So anyway, yes, I

Heidi Wickstrom 34:22
think I started with a four, but nothing earlier than that. Okay.

Scott Benner 34:25
Yeah. So you've had it? Probably seven, eight years, then that's probably in that space. It's funny, because now people who have them probably don't imagine they ever didn't exist, but they're still fairly new. I call under 10 years new, honestly. Yeah. Yeah. What did you notice first when you had a CGM on

Heidi Wickstrom 34:45
I guess just not pricking my finger 10 times a day.

Scott Benner 34:48
So that was the big that was the big thing for you is just not having to test your blood sugar. Yeah, right.

Heidi Wickstrom 34:54
Did it wasn't good? Yeah. I mean, I guess, obviously, it was watching the trends too. But I really wasn't doing that it was more, more just having the not having to test as much.

Scott Benner 35:09
Do you use it for more than that now?

Heidi Wickstrom 35:12
Well, and then, you know, and then I went through a phase of being overly obsessed with it. Were over cracking and stuff cuz like, Oh no, I'm going up like, oh, no, you know, I mean, and then you overcorrect. And so now I'm just kind of just let it be. And I'm also looping to

Scott Benner 35:26
Okay. Oh, you are now. That's cool. Yeah.

Heidi Wickstrom 35:28
I've been doing that for like two years. Well,

Scott Benner 35:31
I think Arden's probably coming up on a couple of years now with

Heidi Wickstrom 35:33
that. Yeah, whenever it well, not when it first started. But yeah, it's like it's been two years.

Scott Benner 35:38
What you mentioned the, the kind of like, obsessing over the CGM. Yeah, that was such a big concern slash issue when they first came out. Because, because just nothing like that ever existed. It's hard to imagine, right? Like, and then suddenly, this whole, you know, group family of people who had lived some of them exactly the way you're describing, or, you know, the way my daughter came up with, you know, just multiple daily injections and a meter, and I didn't know what was going on. And like that whole thing. Some people saw that, and they couldn't stop looking at it. Well, yeah, it really gripped them. But I think it's better now. Like, I think now that it's become more common. It's, you know, kind of mixing the zeitgeist a little bit people understand it better. Hopefully. Yeah, they're not as gripped by it.

Heidi Wickstrom 36:25
And I had to just adjust my alarms and stuff to like, I, I mean, I know a lot of people say they have a alarm go off, like, I don't know, like, 100. And something. I'm like, Oh, my God, I don't want to hear I don't want to hear a thing out of my pump. Unless I'm like, 250.

Scott Benner 36:40
So you're old school. You're older with diabetes? Well,

Heidi Wickstrom 36:43
yeah. And you know, it's funny, the only thing that scares me for people, I don't want to say scares, but I do think about it, is if What if you didn't have any of this stuff? And you do have to go back to like, shots, or and I don't know why you would. But I always feel like everybody should really have a grip on shots and pricking your finger.

Scott Benner 37:03
I'm going to call this episode, grandma. Heidi, what do you think?

Heidi Wickstrom 37:10
But no, don't you understand what I mean, though? You just have a grip on it. Like, what if you lose your insurance? Right? God forbid.

Scott Benner 37:18
So here's what I think I understand. So this is really common. I'm not making fun of you about it. I know, I think that people who grew up the way you did with diabetes, that is every time this comes up, that's their their concern. But, and I and back, when I first heard that concern, I thought, okay, that makes sense. Get good at it with like, the basic tools, and then blah, blah, blah, but it's hard to get good at it with the basic tools. So why not get really good at it with the great tools, and if something should befall me, and I lose my insurance. I have all that knowledge about how to do things, and then I can apply the more basic tools to my advanced knowledge. I think you have it exactly backwards. Okay, okay. I think that hopefully, that will never happen. But if it does, you'll have so much information in your head from using a CGM and a pump, that you'd then be able to do it. Like I see it as like, you know, the zombies come you flee your home, you grab the basics, and but you still remember how it used to be so you, you can shoot for that with your basic tools. Right. And I don't I don't even I don't judge anybody who has that thought. Because that thought occurred to me as well back then. It's only through the process of making the podcast that I think it's backwards. I think it's just a scared idea from people who came up a different way. That makes sense. That makes sense. Yeah, yeah. Why don't have to agree with me. You could just say I completely disagree. Actually, it would make it more fun. We could argue.

Heidi Wickstrom 38:48
I'm gonna make my own podcast and call you a different name.

Scott Benner 38:50
Go ahead. I'll tell you what, if you can figure out how to get a podcast on the air. I'll be your first guest. What do you think about? A lot? I heard you tried to get on this zoom this morning. You're never gonna do it?

Heidi Wickstrom 39:04
No, it was literally I don't know what it was. It was my ear. It was my air pods. I don't know what's happened

Scott Benner 39:08
signal air pods, something like that. Not your fault completely. No, but I'm being serious about that. Like, I think. I think it's, I think there's a lot of value in having a deeper understanding. Yeah, and I also think that you want to talk deeply for a second about things. Yeah, I think that as humans, we've we create fixes to problems that then need fixes. So you know, you, you know, from the first time Man, you know, set a fire, then they burned something down, they had to learn to put it out. You know, we keep moving forward. There has been no time in our history, where we have gone backwards with technology. As a matter of fact, I think that technology always requires more technology. At some point at some point humanity's job We'll just be to keep humanity moving like like everyone's it's a weird thought but but if what you're describing would either have to be a decimation of finances which I think is possible for people obviously. Yeah, or you know World War where they just aren't things aren't being made anymore and then I don't want to break it to you too harshly. Heidi, but, you know, you and my daughter, you're sure you're in trouble. So, you know, like, that's that that's gonna be I wouldn't plan for that kind of devastation I guess. Okay, the partial we learn how to get insulin from cows. I think it's pigs isn't it? bovine Oh isn't bovine cows isn't a bovine a pig. Oh god. Alrighty, this is gonna be really embarrass my zoom there. Oh, great. Now you found the name of the podcast either both. Oh bovine a biological sub family includes a diverse group of 10 medium to large size undulates including domestic cattle bison African buffalo for horn and spark your right so then what the hell

Heidi Wickstrom 41:09
hold a look at you. I know what I was injecting in myself

Scott Benner 41:12
so excited. Yeah, hold on a second a pig. Is pig not a bovine? Yeah, it is. There may be bovine is a term relating to cattle there may be exceptions to this term uses our cattle horses asses swine. Oh, Vine is a term related to sheep. Pork poor sign is a term related to swine. Okay, so a hog is por sign. bovine is cattle. You are right. And I got to say SS without blurring it out. Because it means donkey. So that's true. Yeah, you go.

Heidi Wickstrom 41:49
Well, I I seriously feel like I remember a picture of a cow on my insulin box.

Scott Benner 41:55
Really? I swear, hold on a second. We're looking for that.

Heidi Wickstrom 42:00
Look up mph regular 1980. Something we

Scott Benner 42:03
could you tell me how to Google Hold on a second. Definitely somebody is Mother. How many children do everything? Yeah. How many children do you have? Two? How old? Are they?

Heidi Wickstrom 42:16
14 and 10?

Scott Benner 42:20
It's when a cow on it?

Unknown Speaker 42:25
I swear. Swear there was a cow.

Scott Benner 42:28
Oh, no. All right. That's up to you to find. Or I'll find it and make it the cover of your episode.

Heidi Wickstrom 42:33
Alright, thanks.

Scott Benner 42:36
That's crazy. Any concern about your children? Do you think about

Heidi Wickstrom 42:39
it? I mean, sometimes when not really. I mean, like where I live. And I don't know if it's everywhere. But most of the people here have their kids on all those trials to see if they carry the trial machine. Yeah, they're do it all the time. And I'm like, I just don't want to obsess over it. I'm just like, you know, but they're like, but if they do have it, then you can kind of prevent it or put it off. And I'm like, I I just know.

Scott Benner 43:03
So. So let me ask you a question. First of all, I people come from two different categories on that. I understand both sides, I don't want to think about it. And I know how to take care of diabetes if it should happen. And I want to know cuz I want to try to do something. So they have this drug now people are using called to miss a blob, or something like that. And yeah, it's like a please, all these details. I have a great episode on it. Go listen to that if you want to. But But um, but they it's like this infusion that you do like a certain amount of days in a row and then it's over. And it like really slows down the progression of type one in their in their studies. And I think that's why they're doing it, but I don't think it's, they're getting through the FDA, it's moving along. So, so forget, like, my how things really work if I told you, if you did trial that you'd be able to find out if your kid was getting diabetes, and then they could stop it that you would do. Yeah, right. Okay, obviously. That's that one company's goal is to, I guess, put beta cells back in. And it's just a really interesting conversation beta cells back in and protect your, your immune system from going back against you again, they're also talking about long term inoculating people, for many of the viruses that end up kicking type one in so the idea is maybe you'll have the genetic predisposition to it. But if you never get Coxsackie virus or you never get this virus or that virus, then you might have a chance of never getting type one. It's interesting like prevent like preventative type one by preventing other things that aren't type one, which I thought was kind of interesting anyway it's a really cool this is cool,

Heidi Wickstrom 44:53
but yeah, so anyway, I you know, I keep my eye on them, but I, you know, I watch for having to use the bathroom too much or

Scott Benner 45:00
Be honest with me. Be honest with me. They crested the age that you and your father were diagnosed that so you feel better about it?

Heidi Wickstrom 45:09
Well, my son's not well, he's 10. Yeah, he's right. Yeah, I mean, I guess I do. I probably do. Yeah, I definitely remember them being that age and thinking, No, this was when, you know, I probably said it

Scott Benner 45:20
to them. You're about to get diabetes for your birthday congratulate. And

Heidi Wickstrom 45:24
I just, you know, your mom was going through at this time, and you're complaining about whatever?

Scott Benner 45:31
Yeah, I think parenting magazine says not to guilt your children like that about. Right. But I have described there was, there was a couple of times where my wife was like, you know, the fact that your dad would hit you for saying that and you haven't hit our children for it's not something you're supposed to tell them. Okay. But I just wanted to know that if they would have said that to my dad, they'd be, they'd be across the room behind the sofa, wondering what happened to them. Right. So, and again, I realized that's wrong. Don't get me wrong.

Heidi Wickstrom 46:01
Yeah, no, no, of course. Oh, my gosh.

Scott Benner 46:05
But yeah, I don't do that anymore. But I had to do it a couple of times. I was like, because it's hard not to feel like you have no idea what would have happened to me if I would have said that to somebody.

Heidi Wickstrom 46:16
No, I I've definitely said that myself to my, to my son, for sure.

Scott Benner 46:20
Again, I don't think you're supposed to but whatever. Now who knows really? What's your care like today? What are your outcomes like today?

Heidi Wickstrom 46:30
Well, okay, so, since I started the pump, I've never Okay, so since I started the pump, I have never been lower than the sixes from a onesies. Okay, so 20 years, but since I started the Riley, I'm in the fives.

Scott Benner 46:45
Okay, so you're looping and you're in the fives now? Yeah. How often do you think you're low that needs intervention? Under 5050? And under like that kind of low?

Heidi Wickstrom 46:56
Oh, that needs intervention. You mean like, besides me just eating a sugar pill? Or what do you mean? No,

Scott Benner 47:01
that's what I mean. Like you having a long thing. Like where the loop doesn't catch.

Heidi Wickstrom 47:05
Oh, last night was the cluster. I had a real bad night last night. Because of I don't have my glucose tabs, because I have glucose tabs I dialed in. Like, I know exactly how many I need depending on the number and if I have any insulin on board, or whatever. But last night, I went for the orange juice, which was a mistake. Because I never really know how much I need and I just kind of you know into middle the night so drink down and then loop sees my sugar spiking and then gives me insulin and then I ended up crashing. And I did take have some more and then I crashed. It literally happened. I feel like all night last night.

Scott Benner 47:39
Particularly couple minutes picking insulin, orange juice. Can we pick through this for the last couple minutes? Do you mind? Well, no, he wouldn't be insulted by a person who doesn't have diabetes talking to you about All right. Thank you. Okay, so how often do you get over 200? Daily? No, weekly. Maybe do you Pre-Bolus Now, you know what the problem is? No, you don't Pre-Bolus You have to prove off.

Heidi Wickstrom 48:13
If I bet if I Pre-Bolus and I'm already 75 I'm going to crash

Scott Benner 48:17
because your settings are wrong. You're probably too strong. What am I guessing here? Your Basal maybe is too strong trying to make up for the fact that you don't Pre-Bolus and that you're higher during the day than you want to be because you're not Pre-Bolus thing so if you had your so if your Basal was right and your insulin sensitivity was right, you would not get low over and over again at night. Unless you were busy. unbalancing your meal insulin by not Pre-Bolus Singh. Do you listen to this podcast at all? Yeah, no, I

Heidi Wickstrom 48:50
do I not religiously. I'll be honest. I listened to that's fine. Everyone. Oh, yes, they do. That's fine. You Jenny I listened to I see.

Scott Benner 48:57
Okay, so. Oh, it's interesting.

Heidi Wickstrom 49:02
Okay, so can I tell you something though? I

Scott Benner 49:04
am your thing. Yeah. I'm sorry. Yeah, go please.

Heidi Wickstrom 49:09
Okay, um, every night like I have a bedtime snack. I just do. So if I decide to try something different, which I did last night, it can go to hell. So like I had a you can bar ever heard of a you can bar? No. It's supposed to be a long. It's a carb stabilizing starch. It's literally meant for like long term blood stabilization. Okay, and I remember last time I had one, that it didn't work the way it's supposed to right is supposed to be long absorption, right? So we Okay, well eat this. It was 20 grams. My pump went to give me 1.4 And I said, Nope, I know that's too much. I gave myself one unit. And I gave it a long acting I just put four hours because literally it was kind of like a cuz I hadn't had it and gosh, couple years. So I'm like, I'm just gonna give it a you know, see what happens. So what happened was just like I assumed it would I crashed and right away like it will actually sorry, it absorbed right away. And so I got high and then I went really low because it corrected while I was sleeping. And then that's what I had the orange juice, I had too much orange juice and then went high. And that's the thing with that link the Riley I don't really understand or is when I tell it, I've had the orange juice, then it doesn't work out. But if I ignore that I corrected my low.

Scott Benner 50:42
Yes. So I will tell you that if Arden is you know I'm saying if Arden's getting low or low, and I use some fast acting sugar to fix it. I do No, I do not put those carbs in the loop. Okay, so if she's 60, diagonal down, and I'm like, Here drink a juice, and the juice is 12 or 15 carbs. I don't I tell it nothing. Okay, then if she reaches the threshold, which I think on her pump is like 95. So she gets like 95 diagnose, it'll make like small bonuses or, you know, it'll jack up your Basal depending on what version you're using. Yeah, and but yeah, I would never like it's 65 Diagonal down, say Bolus 12 units for this juice. Not right, because because we've made a mistake in the past. And she has too much insulin. Yeah, we need to balance that back out again. But But what I'm saying is this is like so on a good night. Where did you? Where does your blood sugar sit? Stable? Oh, at? Cool. And am I allowed to ask how much? Why? Yeah. 120. Okay, what's your Basal right an hour?

Heidi Wickstrom 51:51
My wait an hour, your Basal rate? Oh, you want to know all of them? I mean, they're all different. See? A lot of them. Why do you

Scott Benner 51:57
have so many? I don't like that. Well, what

Heidi Wickstrom 52:02
can I tell you and I pretty much a creature of habit, which you kind of have to be right. But um, so I'm gonna open this up. Um, so, okay, so I wake up at 7am I have a cup of coffee. And then I work out I literally fast. And I don't probably eat till 10 or 11. Okay. So and that's the norm for me. So, um, so I workout fasted, I'm fine. And then I eat. And that's just the way it is. So anyway, so I do feel like sometimes that doesn't happen. Obviously, it affects my day, but so my rate starting it, where you need to start. Oh, started midnight. Okay, so midnight, point two. And then I start to get that Dawn phenomenon three, and I go to point four. And then by the time I'm awake, I go up to point four or five. And then by the time I'm ready for food, and I've exercised, it goes to point five, five at 10. And then I'm point five, five till five o'clock. Okay. And then at five o'clock, I'm point six. And then at nine, I'm point four, five. And then I go back to point two at 930. When I go to sleep, we're very low at night.

Scott Benner 53:20
Were you getting you get low overnight when you go to sleep? Well,

Heidi Wickstrom 53:24
um, no, I don't anymore. But I was I've had to, in the past. Say, I've never had a horrible low where I needed intervention from someone else. But it's happened twice in the last four years.

Scott Benner 53:38
Okay. So you've waited night to kind of get in front of that?

Heidi Wickstrom 53:43
Yeah, so my doctor and I just kind of in he's very, he always says, like, you know, more than I do. Right? You know, and so we'll talk about it. He's like, Yeah, just adjust this and that and, you know, or whenever, you know, I basically adjusted on my own. Right. But um, yeah, so nine, I'm very low.

Scott Benner 54:02
Gotcha. So I wouldn't listen, if whatever works, works for everyone listening, but there, you have to, in my opinion, you have to be careful that you're not setting Basal rates that are meant to stop problems that can be stopped in other ways. Okay. Does that make sense? So, yeah, you know, like, already, like, I'm

Heidi Wickstrom 54:21
not taking enough at for a meal or I'm taking too much for a meal. Yeah, right. Or,

Scott Benner 54:25
or you're, I mean, in your case with loop if your insulin sensitivity is too strong in the afternoon, or in the evening, and you're having to dial everything back because you've got too much insulin coming into when you digest your dinner and lay down to go to bed. Then, you know, you don't I mean, like if you're too strong in one place. The way I think of it is that everything you do with insulin right now is for later, but kind of more importantly, think about it like this. Everything you did before with insulin is for now Right. So if you're getting low at midnight? I don't I mean, the common, the common idea would be if you're getting low at midnight to make your Basal lower, maybe at 11pm, right to try to stop that. But but before you do that, I would look at what happens at dinner and the hours before that, like, is there something we can be doing in there better, like more balanced carbs against insulin that would stop a low at midnight, like that's not to say that it wouldn't end up being an 11pm Basal decrease in that situation. But I'd want to really like rip apart the rest of it before I did that, like Ardens, a Ardens. Basal rate is just basically one Basal rate 24 hours day, and then, you know, it's a little lower overnight. And by that, I mean, like 1.2 to one or 1.1 2.9, depending on if she's got her period, or she doesn't like that. Yeah. But whatever works works, but I don't, I would hate to see you. Having all these like Basal fixes all over the place to catch problems that maybe you wouldn't have to have to begin with. And also if your Basal was, if your Basal and your insulin sensitivity was stable, like that you could because you can fast in the morning, you're saying Where does your blood sugar sit in the morning when you're fasting? Right now? I'm

Heidi Wickstrom 56:24
fasting. I'm at 85.

Scott Benner 56:25
That's amazing, right? Like, if you could achieve that throughout the day, then you wouldn't have to be so segmented with what like you said, you said something interesting earlier, that you said like, it was like it was gospel. You have to be regimented. Yeah, but my daughter's day is never the same twice.

Heidi Wickstrom 56:43
Yeah, what's her age two? I think I'm just you know, what? When I was her age, I was a mess.

Scott Benner 56:50
You were Yeah, but I'm saying her blood sugar super stable all the time. If she gets up in the morning and doesn't eat, it's fine. If she gets up in the morning and eats it's fine. Yesterday, yesterday, she had most for lunch. You know, which is terrible. Oh, no bones. Oh my god. It's like text. I don't even know what it is like it was like some bowl with like, beef and tortilla and like cola. Like it's a lot of food. Yeah. But she very easily could have said to me at lunchtime, I'm going to cut up a bunch of carrots. Like she's all over the place without sheets. Yeah. And she's always super stable. But I think it's because their settings are like rock solid. That's good. You don't I mean, I think yeah. See, this is interesting. Because you've had diabetes for a while. Is there is a party who's like, yeah, that's you, not me. You think that right?

Heidi Wickstrom 57:39
Um, no, I just think it's a different. I don't know, like, if I had a pump when I was younger, I don't you know, I don't know. You know, I mean, I just I don't know.

Scott Benner 57:51
No, I don't mean for you to like, go back in time and re

Heidi Wickstrom 57:55
know that. I'm trying to think like when I was that age. And I ate that way. I mean, like, if I ate that way now. Right? ate whatever I wanted. Whenever I wanted, I would definitely that would have to be all dialed in. But because I'm very, like, regimented and scheduled. And you know, I'm saying like, I don't have to dial it in as much because I don't really go off my path very much. Oh, no,

Scott Benner 58:19
absolutely. Yeah. And if that, by the way, if that works, I think that's amazing. You know, I'm not I'm not saying otherwise. I'm just saying for people who are listening. I think there's you don't have to eat, you know, very specifically like that. Yeah, for sure. It's one or the other. But I again, I firmly believe in whatever works is what Yeah, yeah. 100%. And now you're a one season five. That's amazing.

Heidi Wickstrom 58:42
Yeah, it was like five five and my daughter thought that was a little low. Especially because I had a problem. We don't listen to them. Yeah, I like got up one night and hit my head really hard on the dresser and like, it could have been really bad because

Scott Benner 58:57
you were low. Yeah. Oh my gosh, that's Oh, yeah.

Heidi Wickstrom 59:01
I would know is really bad. i And it's funny because I got God. God bless my husband, but he he gets panicky, which I don't blame him, but I can see it even though I can't say anything that inside my head even though I'm really low. I think to myself, like do just calm down. It's fine, but at least

Scott Benner 59:23
you're not thinking I could have chosen better.

Heidi Wickstrom 59:27
Like can you at least make me feel a little better? That'll be okay, cuz you look like you're crazy right now.

Scott Benner 59:32
He just doesn't want to raise those kids by himself. That's all

Heidi Wickstrom 59:34
but no, the next thing I know, I was sitting up on the edge of the bed. I guess I had already fallen. I didn't know I fell, right. And he's trying to shove orange juice down my throat. I'm like, oh, you know, and then I see him struggling with the glucagon and all I could say was back see me. I'm like back see me and I kept pointing to my bedroom, my my bedside table drawer, right? That's the only word that came out my mouth because I saw him like trying to do the glucose I was like, this is not going to happen.

Scott Benner 1:00:02
So you're gonna inject you with glucagon?

Heidi Wickstrom 1:00:05
Yeah. Because I was like, yeah, it was it was bad. And it definitely was From what I recall even though I was like, couldn't speak or anything. I saw what was happening. Does that make sense?

Scott Benner 1:00:16
Heidi? Either you're great at sex make a lot of money or he really loves you. I don't know what but he was in a pack.

Unknown Speaker 1:00:24
Maybe all three, yo, hey,

Scott Benner 1:00:26
nothing to say couldn't be all three.

Heidi Wickstrom 1:00:29
Anyway, he does he gets the vaccine. Yeah. And literally, like within, you know, 10 seconds. It's in my nose. And he felt better. And yeah, but he goes, you fell and I looked, and by the time I came back, oh, and then I was shivering and I was sweating. It was a whole thing. But by the time I could look in the mirror, I'm like, Oh, shit, like, oh, sorry to swear. Um, but I had a huge like, contusion on my head. Yeah, it was pretty easy. Yeah, you fell right there and hit your head on the dresser. And I'm like,

Scott Benner 1:00:57
oh, looking back. Do you have any idea what caused the low?

Heidi Wickstrom 1:01:01
I don't remember now. But I remembered then.

Scott Benner 1:01:07
Some short term memory loss. My memory,

Heidi Wickstrom 1:01:08
by the way is horrible. Like it used to be solid gold. Now it is horrible. There's

Scott Benner 1:01:14
going to be a guy comes on next month and record with me. It's got a lot of a lot of long term issues from diabetes probably grew up a lot like you did. And one of them he wants to talk about is like memory fog and memory loss he has.

Heidi Wickstrom 1:01:29
Yeah, that's the only thing I have not gone when Yeah, that's really someone. Well, besides No, I had an issue. I was pregnant, but I know we probably are done, but I have a lot of other stuff.

Scott Benner 1:01:39
I have a lot of other stuff. Alright, well, listen, we're already over on time a little bit because it's 20 minutes to get on. But what give me What's one more fun problem, you know, seriously, what did you what happened?

Unknown Speaker 1:01:51
What negative stuff?

Scott Benner 1:01:53
Yeah, maybe we should ask you Does anything good happen to you? You live a nice life. You're You're happy, right? You have good family? Like you're? You're doing hockey? I?

Heidi Wickstrom 1:02:02
Yeah, I can exercise. I mean, I have all my limbs.

Scott Benner 1:02:07
What did you? Well, listen, that's a real perspective. When you watched your father lose a leg, right?

Heidi Wickstrom 1:02:12
I know. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:02:14
Is there? Are you more of I guess, what am I trying to ask you like his attitude? A big part of it for you? You seem like you have a good attitude about it.

Heidi Wickstrom 1:02:27
Yeah, I mean, I don't, I've never gone. I mean, I think maybe I've had a couple of breakdowns in 40 years, where I'm like, this just isn't fair. And you know, but that's usually when I'm high. You know, like, it feels awful. And it won't come down and I'm hungry. You know, like one of those moments. Yeah. You're like, Why me? I just wanted to eat and I feel, you know, but no, otherwise, I'm like, it's really not that bad.

Scott Benner 1:02:52
diabetes, not that bad. Really not

Heidi Wickstrom 1:02:54
that bad. It's a t shirt. And I really keep most of it to myself. I mean, I you know, it's like a hidden disease. What do they call that? Like, no one sees it. So besides stuff on your body now, but

Scott Benner 1:03:06
well, your dad wasn't your dad wasn't telling anybody about it really wrote, right?

Heidi Wickstrom 1:03:10
No, yeah. No. So it's kind of it's just something you deal with personally. And? And then when really was

Scott Benner 1:03:16
no. And you said earlier? We never got around to it. But there's a lot of people in your life like that. Those kids have type one and you talk.

Heidi Wickstrom 1:03:23
Yeah, yeah. In fact, I feel like in the last few years, I I've gotten phone calls from friends will say you'll never believe it. My daughter was just diagnosed or my son was just diagnosed, and I'm the first person they call.

Scott Benner 1:03:35
What's the first thing you think to tell them? Oh, it's a great question. Oh, my questions have been great. Heidi, this one? There's no reason to just go out this one.

Heidi Wickstrom 1:03:51
I mean, I think they usually do all the talking. But

Scott Benner 1:03:53
Oh, so you're sort of like you listen, and then you say things like, look for a POM. Try to get a CGM. Don't worry.

Heidi Wickstrom 1:04:01
And they're usually already on top of that, you know, like there. Yeah. Because the chalk hospital here is really good. Okay. Children's Hospital.

Scott Benner 1:04:10
So I think they're looking for more like, community connection. Like people. Sure.

Heidi Wickstrom 1:04:15
Yeah. We have a big type one Facebook group and just in my, my city here. Really? Yeah. How many people kids we have parties. We hang out. We you know, it's fun.

Scott Benner 1:04:27
Yeah, I tried to rival my Facebook group it what's going on here? It's just for locals. All right. But the weather's nice there. Right? It's yeah, Southern California. Yeah, you might want to have like a diabetes celebrity at one time to talk at one of the events. Great. Or maybe if you can't find one of them, and that's coming. I just want to go somewhere warm or it's not here. But that's pretty much all like, Yeah, you

Heidi Wickstrom 1:04:52
should probably come here. Pretty nice. It's I just got back from Hawaii, so I can't complain.

Scott Benner 1:04:56
Wow, it's June 21. here and I walked outside and that's it. Go Okay, the humidity is here already great.

Heidi Wickstrom 1:05:02
Terrible. Like Scott, you'll never believe it. But it's June 21. Here too.

Scott Benner 1:05:05
I know. But this is not for you. It's for the people listening when they hear it. And it's like, oh, sorry, November and they're like, why is he talking about it humid?

Heidi Wickstrom 1:05:14
Yeah, I'm talking to Hawaii. She's like, why is she going to Hawaii and Christmas? Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:05:17
exactly. That's it. I look at you just waiting around like a lion tries to pounce on me. If you make a mistake. I'm going to call this grandma Heidi, if you don't watch it. Oh, I don't even know what to call this episode.

Heidi Wickstrom 1:05:32
You'll find some tidbit that you like, move on. It's not a pig bovine

Scott Benner 1:05:36
is not a pig. That's pretty good. Right? Look if you're producing good job. Well, I do really appreciate you doing. I enjoyed your note when you said, when you filled out the thing and it says, you know, tell me a little bit about why you want to come on the show. And you're just like, Oh, no. Like, I can almost hear you mumbling and you're writing and it's gonna it'll be good, like, people diabetes will help somebody like, right? You'll make it work. I actually think there's a sentence in there. That is like, Scott, I'll make it work. Don't worry, it'll be fine. That's like, Okay. And then I had to put you off once, which I want to apologize for

Heidi Wickstrom 1:06:16
now. It's fine. I'm sure there was someone bigger and better.

Scott Benner 1:06:19
And my son went on a trip that needed my attention. And I had to clear a week away. And it was during your time, so I was actually out on that coast at the time. Oh, well, up in Washington morn like Seattle ish. But yeah, yeah. I appreciate very much. I know it sucks to have something moved like that. No, it's fine. But you paid me back this morning with your technology. So sure. Did we're even now.

Heidi Wickstrom 1:06:42
Now I have to go for a walk. See?

Scott Benner 1:06:45
Yeah, I listened that people don't understand because it wasn't recorded that your idea was to go for a walk and talk at the same time, which I've done with people before. But you just I don't know. The cell service just wasn't what must be. Yeah, I missed your headphones. Maybe it was your headphones. Actually. I don't know. You. Listen, you could afford to go to Hawaii. Let's replace that stuff. Okay, did

Heidi Wickstrom 1:07:07
I just hop on my peloton. Now?

Scott Benner 1:07:10
Is this some like white lady like, brag what's going on here? I'm just trying to be funny. I love you guys.

Heidi Wickstrom 1:07:18
I think everybody can walk. If you have legs. Go for a walk people. That is my advice today.

Scott Benner 1:07:22
10 minutes that your heart rate up three times a week. Isn't that the vibe that they say? Just 10 minutes? at a very minimum, get your heart rate up for 10 minutes, three times a week. And that's the very minimum but and that's super easy to accomplish with

Heidi Wickstrom 1:07:35
walking. Yeah. Or if you're married anyway.

Scott Benner 1:07:38
Just yesterday. Oh, I think you were saying sex. I was thinking arguing.

Heidi Wickstrom 1:07:42
Sorry. I was being clean.

Scott Benner 1:07:46
I guess you could do that without being married to right.

Heidi Wickstrom 1:07:49
That's true. I'm sorry. I was just for the children out there.

Scott Benner 1:07:52
There are kids. Mary, I have to be reminded once in a while the children listen.

Heidi Wickstrom 1:07:57
Yeah. Well, especially when my mom friends. If I say I'm on here, guess who's gonna listen their children?

Scott Benner 1:08:03
Oh, are they really? Oh, so. So So and Heidi jumped on here to tell us our legs, you're gonna get your, like the Ghost of Christmas Future over? Ooh. No, no, that won't work. Not happening to me. It's not gonna you know what the truth is, is as really genuinely sad as what has happened, you know, to your father. Yeah, that outcome is going to be incredibly uncommon moving forward for people who have Yes, technology and the idea of how insulin really works. And it's just a it's a bygone era. Not that I guess it couldn't happen. No, it is, but it doesn't need to happen anymore. And it's it's certainly not going to happen as frequently as it used to. So

Heidi Wickstrom 1:08:44
and in fact, that's that's reminds me that's probably exactly what I tell people that are first diagnosis that Oh, my God, all this technology. They're going to be fine. You know?

Scott Benner 1:08:52
Yeah, I agree. I don't know why the serious episodes make me feel the most jokey. But obviously, it makes you uncomfortable. Probably. I'm not making light of.

Heidi Wickstrom 1:09:02
I'm like that too, though. I always use humor. Instead of

Scott Benner 1:09:05
Yeah, well, we were a real great match here because we were both doing the same thing. Like no one was being an adult. While we were talking about like the sound of circular saws and hospitals we've got that is really a great story. It is a good story. It's odd timing. All right.

Hold on. I'd like to thank Heidi for coming on the show and telling her story. And of course, thank touched by type one for sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast. I would like to remind you to check them out on Facebook, Instagram, and it touched by type one.org. Also, remember that I also want to remind you that I have a website juicebox podcast.com and a Facebook page with over 18,000 members Juicebox Podcast, type one diabetes, the Facebook page is completely free. I just reached And we've found out that people charge for that. There's no charge to be in the Facebook group. Just go use it, enjoy it, meet other people who have type one for adults and parents. There's a beautiful little hodgepodge in there. You might like it

I wish you could be in my head right now. I'm trying to decide if I'm going to go back and edit out where I went live bla bla in between those. I'm not I'm leaving then I don't care. I mean, it's not that I don't care. It's just, I don't know how to put it to you. It's not that I don't care. It's that I. I don't think it matters. Like I don't think you're right now going, Oh, how unprofessional of Scott. I just don't think you mind if you don't mind. Doesn't matter, mind over matter. I don't think that's what that means. But anyway,


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#602 Beth from Episode 23

Scott Benner

Beth was recently diagnosed with type 1 diabetes, she is the mother of a T1 and a former podcast guest.

You can always listen to the Juicebox Podcast here but the cool kids use: Apple Podcasts/iOS - Spotify - Amazon MusicGoogle Play/Android - iHeart Radio -  Radio PublicAmazon Alexa or wherever they get audio.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT


DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 602 of the Juicebox Podcast.

I don't normally like to date the episodes, but I am recording this for you on December 27 2001. By recording this I mean the ads I think the actual recording was made some months ago. But I'm telling you because today's guest is Beth. Beth is a newly diagnosed type one who is also the mother of a child with type one diabetes. I know that Beth is the mother of a child with type one, because on July 7 2015, she and her then husband were guests on the 23rd episode of my podcast. While that sinks in please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan or becoming bold with insulin.

This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by touched by type one, please visit them at touched by type one.org. Or find them on Facebook and Instagram. Touched by type ones mission is to elevate awareness of type one diabetes, raise funds to find a cure and inspire those with diabetes to thrive, you should check out what they're doing at touched by type one.org.

Beth 1:56
I'm Beth and I have a son who was diagnosed with type one diabetes six and a half years ago when he was two years old. Four weeks before his sister was born. And I was diagnosed with type one diabetes six months ago when I was 38.

Scott Benner 2:14
Whose high alarm was that yours or his? That was mine. Are you nervous?

Beth 2:20
I'm a little bit.

Scott Benner 2:22
You shouldn't be though, right?

Beth 2:24
I shouldn't be because I've done this once before, but yeah, I don't know.

Scott Benner 2:30
Well, don't worry about that. Take care of your blood sugar if you need to. There's so much to ask here. Where do I start? Um, you're like one of daddy's friends before the divorce kind of thing. Like I You're like you were on the podcast in the very, very beginning. Am I wrong? Like

Beth 2:49
yeah, that's that is very accurate. I think I was. I don't know if they missed 30s I think I want to say, but I can't really remember.

Scott Benner 2:58
I think so too. It was far enough back that the naming system I had for it was different. And so I can't it's not even easy for me to figure.

Beth 3:10
We were we were Jack's mum and dad. I do remember that.

Scott Benner 3:13
Okay, hold on a second. Wait, no, hold on a second. Yours was 31. This is super interesting. Episode 31 was called PI attack. Because of you know, because your married name.

Beth 3:29
Nope, that's not me.

Scott Benner 3:31
Hold a second. That's not you. That's not me. Let me Google some more. All right, hold on a second. I'll find it. I'm so bad at searching my own blog. That's crazy. I should be better at this. I just did like your first name was like a pop right up. I was like, this is definitely it. What do you think the title was?

Beth 3:52
I think I think it was Jack's mom and dad. Jack's Dad and Mom. Because both me and my ex husband were on at the same time. We were still married at the time.

Scott Benner 4:03
I have it. I have it. 23 Oh my god.

Beth 4:08
Oh my gosh.

Scott Benner 4:10
I remember you. Oh, my Wow.

Unknown Speaker 4:15
This was hoping that's a good thing,

Scott Benner 4:17
of course is July 2015. And it's June 2021. Right now.

Beth 4:24
It's been a wild six years.

Scott Benner 4:26
I was gonna say that six years ago. You totally took away my my joy of knowing how many years it's been since 2015. Don't don't apologize, but even crazier. There are two people named Beth that were on the show in the beginning who I don't think are married anymore. Oh, do you think oh, it was bad luck for women named Beth.

Beth 4:50
Or good luck.

Scott Benner 4:51
Oh, never mind. Good riddance.

Beth 4:56
Well, I'm not gonna throw anybody under the bus. You can't stand up here and find themselves, but you know, I'm in a better place

Scott Benner 5:04
for you. Alright, well. So this is I hold on a second. This is completely fried my mind. But I'm together now because in my heart, you were the other Beth. Let me just say this before we move forward to the other bath. I'm glad you don't have diabetes. But in my mind for the last six months you have so I don't know if she still listens or not, but that that is absolutely crazy. Okay. All right. So a lot has happened since then. So when you came on six years ago, you had two fairly small children. Is that right?

Beth 5:39
Yeah. Yeah, cuz Jack Jack was two at the time, or two and a half by that point. And Abby was not even four months, I think.

Scott Benner 5:53
Okay. She's, I have a picture of her. She's super tiny in the photograph. So

Beth 5:58
yeah, yeah, that was her newborn picture. And so yeah, she was she was teeny tiny.

Scott Benner 6:03
So back then Jack was to tell me again, how old he was two and a half and how long he had he had diabetes at that point.

Beth 6:13
Six months? Wasn't even. Yeah, it was like, it might have even been five

Scott Benner 6:18
was like any good at the podcast back then. Oh, yeah. It was a really? Oh, thank you. That's nice. I was certain you would say no.

Beth 6:26
No, I absolutely. I absolutely love listening and had it not been for the divorce happening a year later. I would have continued to listen, but it just kind of got to be too much. But I have caught up on four years of podcasts in four months. So

Scott Benner 6:45
well. Thank you. I just announced today on the Facebook machine that the podcast is currently averaging three and a half downloads per minute. That is awesome. I want six bath. I just

Beth 7:00
I mean, you You are the constant overachiever. So

Scott Benner 7:03
I it's funny. I don't think I overachieving anything but this I think of myself more as competitive with myself. So every time I see the number, I'm like, Ah, but couldn't it be more? And, and then I get like, I think of ways to reach more people. And but it's least it's a nice thing that competitiveness gets used in a good way. Which is

Beth 7:23
Oh, absolutely, yeah. Cuz I can. I like, especially these last, like, since I've started re listening again, I'm like, Oh, this is like getting therapy on an extra day.

Scott Benner 7:35
Oh, thank you. I should charge for that. $40 a month Patreon. There you go. I'm definitely that sounds horrible to me. Although there was somebody who came to me the other day, you know, there are business people who see that you have a popular thing. And they'll come to you and say, here's how you can monetize your ideas. And I'm like, Thank you. No, thank you. Like, I have to say, No, thank you to a lot of people. Right. But one of them was one of them said, Imagine if you would charge 50 cents for a download, or $5 a month for each person listening. And I said, I can't imagine that. Because if I stop and think about that, that will make me want to do that. Because I would like to retire to someday. So I'm like, Please don't tell me about that. I'm like, I very badly want this show to remain free to the people who are listening to it. So no, thank you. And please, please, I can't hear you. I can't hear you.

Beth 8:27
But what I'm just I think I would speak for probably most of the people listening or or all of them wanted to say we can't thank you enough. I mean, it's just it's it's not just a management podcast. It's it's a humanitarian.

Scott Benner 8:54
Hey, we might get good. I'm almost like Nelson Mandela for diabetes, you're saying? I mean, you're like, No, I'm not.

Beth 9:02
Pro tide bit. I mean, that might be going at TED,

Scott Benner 9:06
Nelson Mandela's a little too much of a shining star in this scenario. Hold on a second,

Beth 9:10
maybe a hair's breadth too far. But it's, it's it's a welcome reminder that we're not alone. And that we all have struggles, and that we all have struggles outside of diabetes, right? It's just like, it adds to it. Right. It's, it's the one more thing that nobody really wants one more thing to be. Well,

Scott Benner 9:34
I'm super happy that it provides that for you. I'm going to ask you one difficult question so that we can leap forward and ask the rest of them was the dissolving of your marriage to do in any way with diabetes?

Beth 9:47
I had a feeling that would come up. Um, I can't say that it. It was specifically to that there were a number of other probably more more heavily contributing factors. But from my standpoint, there were I can't say that it wasn't, but not directly.

Scott Benner 10:10
Wow, you just talked all the way around that path. Okay, so I'm not asking your personal I don't want to like you understand I'm not asking for your personal details, like right about your divorce. I just want to know, did diabetes add? Is that what you're saying that it added stress on top of an already stressed issue? Yes. Okay, that's fair, I would think that it's added stress to all of us. And that there's like four people listening right now that like, my life is perfect. So diabetes wasn't that much worse, and everyone else feels that exact way. So I just didn't want to gloss over it. Because if I was listening, as a listener, I'd wonder the whole time. And I didn't want people to be wondering when I started asking you really other questions that I'm super interested in? So first of all, how is Jack doing?

Beth 10:57
Jack's doing good. We've, you know, we did struggle for a while and his agency to get up into the nines. Unfortunately, you know, there's all kinds of ways that I could talk around that, but life is distracting. And we were able to refocus, and he's now back down to 7.1. So hopefully, we'll get him under the sevens. And then within the within the year,

Scott Benner 11:27
did it become I don't want to, I don't want to attach it to something meaningless. But again, all of my examples that popped in my head are always stupid, but give me a second. So what I was thinking was, is it like when you want to do the laundry and mop the kitchen floor today, but the laundry ends up being slightly more important, so you don't mop the floor for six months? Kind of okay. So

Beth 11:52
so it's, it's, it's also one of those. You know, I acted as a single mom for, you know, a number of years. And and I, you know, I worked full time. Yeah, right. Around single, you know, single mom, me wasn't even two. It just kind of got lost in the mix. And I probably slept through more high alarms overnight than I had prior. Prior to

Scott Benner 12:29
Gotcha. And that's just the, the function of you need to get up and go to work in the next day, or you guys are gonna have bigger problems is that feels right.

Beth 12:37
Yeah. I mean, there's that.

Scott Benner 12:40
Any sadness on your part? After thing?

Beth 12:49
In regards to what

Scott Benner 12:50
did you did you go through a period of like, feeling down after the divorce? Or was it invigorating? My, I only have my mother's divorce to draw from my mom acted like she was okay, but seemed pretty sad, got thrust into a full time job that she didn't have prior to that, and then seemingly ignored everything around the house, because that was pretty much all she could handle. Right.

Beth 13:15
So I think, for me, it was just kind of, I threw myself into survival mode almost. And so there wasn't, I think any grieving that I did I did prior to the divorce. Okay. Because I had hit a point to where I I had done what I felt I could do, and I was, I was just done. And so that grieving process, for the most part happened up to the point to where the papers were signed, and then it was kind of a, you know, take a breath and

Scott Benner 13:59
move forward. It was kind of processed for you by then. Yeah, got it. Kids went, stayed. Did you have to change homes? Or did you get to stay where you were?

Beth 14:09
We did. So we sold the home that we were in and then I moved to a townhome for about a year. And then my current husband and I, we weren't married at the time, but we we went ahead and bought a house together. Yeah, and so yeah.

Scott Benner 14:31
I'm sorry. I know this is all incredibly difficult, but you must have known that when you reached out right.

Beth 14:36
Oh, yeah, no, I mean, I like I'm, I'm prepared. Like i i Don't you know, you can try to make me cry.

Scott Benner 14:45
Do you think I'm trying to make people cry? Most not to cry myself.

Beth 14:53
Although I'm sure it would do wonders for ratings. So

Scott Benner 14:55
I listen. We're not gonna make you cry. Just some where people will listen. But if that's gonna work, then we'll just, we'll pick a time in every episode and people cry together. It'll be nice. So, okay, so during this kind of transitional period would, would you say you lost focus on Jax diabetes? Or how do you describe what happened as you drifted away from where you were to where you ended up? And then what? What made you like kind of go? I gotta move this now that direction?

Beth 15:28
Yeah, so part of it was certain aspects had kind of been moved out of my realm of overseeing. Right. Like you probably should not text your ex husband at two in the afternoon and say, Hey, more insulin. That's not going to be taken. Well,

Scott Benner 15:55
does he respond back? You left me?

Beth 16:00
I never tried it. So I don't know. I

Scott Benner 16:03
see you weren't certain where it was gonna go see. So people who did not grow up in a divorce, like householder probably not going to see as much humor in this as I do. But so Jack spent time with his dad and he spent time with you. There was one set of management with you and one set of management with his father. Is that fair? Correct.

Beth 16:26
Correct. And then on top of that, he also started daycare about a month after we moved, and that took some adjusting on their part as well. Now they were they were super cooperative and very vigilant. But a lot of daycares use a lot of processed food. And then they also have snacks of things like you know, Pop Tarts or let's make fruit kebabs or you know, how many cards can we shove into your kid at three o'clock and then you're going to try and feed them dinner at 530

Scott Benner 17:07
we like to make him sleepy for the end of the day so they don't fight putting their coats back on. What we do is we pack them full of carbs and then they just kind of slow down a little bit they're less onry Yeah, I It's crazy knowing what daycare costs that that wouldn't at least come with like something that wasn't a pop tart. Terrible and you're stuck right like I think that's important for people to remember is that you're not like you're not the queen of like Wales or something I'm sure that Wales doesn't have a queen but they must have a princess or something like that. And like you're not like sitting on a pile of gold trying to decide what to do next with your fancy like you're you're out busting your ass you got a job you're trying to like keep all this stuff up in the air trying to have like a life for yourself like there's a lot going on in the tiny little space and time and so as it drifts up as a once he goes up and up are you thinking like how does it does it happen so incrementally that you don't feel it? Is it like gaining 10 pounds?

Beth 18:12
Oh no, no. Well, I mean for me gaining 10 pounds i i feel gaining 10 pounds. Um but there's there's a lot of self flagellation that goes along with it of like not doing a good job still not doing a good job Oh, I'm doing even worse job. And that I mean it doesn't really help anything right because it's still not solving the problem. Um, you know, and probably within the last two years is when we've really started to see his agency come back down so there was there was probably a two and a half year time period where it it went up and I just said That's That's enough. Like I just can't We can't keep doing this. And

Scott Benner 19:06
what's the fix then? How do you how do you jumpstart it

Beth 19:17
one meal at a time. Um, I mean really, it was just let me see if I can get one meal down. Let me just see if I can get a dinner and okay, well he's he's going to bed at a stable rate. Okay, let's see if we can get him to stay stable overnight. Which and

Scott Benner 19:44
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off. No, no, that's

Beth 19:47
fine. Um, it's just the the once you want once we got him in range, right. It's easier to keep him in rage. But the the problem was, it continues to be right. If something goes a little hinky.

His blood sugar's shoots up trying to get it back down and get it back down safely.

Because when he was diagnosed at two, you know, a half a unit is in is an insane amount of insulin at that age, right? And then, you know, fast forward a couple of years and half a unit is I mean, it's not nothing, but it doesn't do the same thing. Alright,

Scott Benner 20:45
I have to say something, and then I'm going to ask a question. And please, I am not making fun of you. It's just so worth pointing out a couple of minutes ago. You meant self flagellation, which you know, means to inflict, and you say, self flagellation, which I think is something about farting. So it's very possible, very possible that you may have inadvertently named your episode, self Angelus.

Beth 21:14
Hi, Dan, because I actually had a good one in the back of my head, you're

Scott Benner 21:18
gonna have to come up with something way better as we move forward to knock that out of my head. Now. Now, speaking of getting something knocked out of your head, it's occurring to me as I'm putting this timeline together, that you have a very young son diagnosed with type one diabetes, in that first year, we all know that time to be chaotic. And then you get divorced, which I'm assuming puts kind of a pause on your ability to dig into the type one. So is it almost like when your head comes up above water? Is it almost like he was just diagnosed? Or am I wrong about that? I mean, you still dealt with it day to day, but I mean, if we're being fair, and at the nines, there was some stuff being missed in there. So

Beth 22:03
Oh, absolutely. Yeah. It was going through some of the education again. Right, it was, you know, kind of reintroduction of like, looking at what we can, what I considered to be high, readjusting my expectations. Because, you know, when you're, you know, I guess I kind of only had so much bandwidth. And so then I was hitting that, like, Oh, it's just 180. It's okay. Oh, it's just 200? Well, it's, it's not it's still under 200. It's okay. Right, and then those creep away from you.

Scott Benner 22:48
Yeah, you just keep raising the ceiling.

Beth 22:51
And then I, you know, it was just kind of hitting this point of, you know, that's it, that his agency is not going any higher than this. And we're, we're gonna go about this the way that I was going about it at the beginning, and hopefully we see some more success.

Scott Benner 23:11
And how did that how were you able to impact the split household situation? Or has that changed since then?

Beth 23:17
It hasn't been but you know, my, my husband is really great. He actually helps me manage mine as well.

Scott Benner 23:30
wait to get to that part. Yeah. The only podcast in the world where people are super excited that you got diabetes, but go ahead.

Beth 23:38
Right. Yeah, so he he helps out because he, he's a stay at home step dad. So he helps out with school time, he helps out with after school. You know, he kind of takes care of the overnights for the most part. And so he was able to, you know, because Jack was still the last time that he was actually in a school was first grade. But he was able to call up to the nurse and say, Hey, go ahead and up his Basal and give him a Bolus of you know, point seven five

Scott Benner 24:24
are you supporting at this point? The four of us I've just I spent a lot of time being a stay at home dad feeling like I don't make any money. I always felt I felt very badly about it. But I'm just teasing. I don't think that law I think that stay at home parents do an amazing thing. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Okay, so you're getting help from from another person. Now. How long have you been remarried?

Beth 24:52
Since February. Oh, so coming up on four months here.

Scott Benner 24:57
Oh, wow. It's very new. Congratulations. Thank you. Should we book six months from now? You can tell me about your third husband are there six years?

Beth 25:05
Let's say six years. I want to give this one.

Scott Benner 25:08
Good rule first. Now, that's really wonderful. Congratulations. How did you guys meet? I'm interested in how how you meet during a pandemic and get married.

Beth 25:19
Um, well, we actually, were sort of college sweethearts we did in college for a few months. Kind of sorta kept in touch with each other. Off and on. And as I was going through the divorce, we reconnected and yeah, so we've we've actually been together. Yeah, since later on in in 2016.

Scott Benner 25:51
I see. Oh, yeah. You didn't meet on like, Grindr? Tinder? I don't know. I'm not sure which ones are appropriate for you. But I think there's one now called hinge if I'm not mistaken. Oh, actually interesting. Yeah. Yeah, I should never get divorced as I will not be able to find another human being through an app. That would be a horrifying thing. Can you imagine? Yeah. Is it? Is it hard as an adult with two kids to say to somebody like, Hey, look at me, I'm a package like, is that scary or not with the right person? That doesn't?

Beth 26:23
Um, I don't think with the right person a you know, with with Jordan, it was, you know, all cards are out on the table from the get go. And I was like, Look, dude, I got a kid with a chronic illness that's not going away. So, you know, you want to continue this, you just need to know what you're signing up for. And, you know, I sent him I think like a pancreas and sugar surfing in the mail. Cuz he actually was living two hours away from here as well.

Scott Benner 27:04
Anything in your life easy?

Beth 27:07
No, no, because, you know, when you also second thinking about it, My diagnosis was in the height of the pandemic. Yeah,

Scott Benner 27:14
I just want to know, I was getting ready to jump into that. I felt the vibe. But I want to know is did he? Did you get married? And then you got type one, or did you get type one right before you got married?

Beth 27:29
So I got type one. And when I was in the ICU, and they were asking for next of kin, I tried to put him down. And they were like, What's your relationship? He's my life partner. Yeah, no, that doesn't work. What's your mother's name?

Scott Benner 27:46
We dated in high school.

Beth 27:49
Oh, it's just like, Ah, okay. And, you know, I let him know that and we had kind of been talking about getting married, but then that was kind of the impetus of like, Alright, let's go down to the courthouse.

Scott Benner 28:06
Oh, so wait, so this isn't a good guy. He thought he was gonna get your stuff. I know. I guess that's not it. You wouldn't trade taking care of a kid with diabetes for like a DVD player and 20 movies? Probably I don't think. Yeah. So okay, so how did you alright, I guess how did you figure out you I type one what happened?

Beth 28:26
Um, well, and we actually think that I may have had lotta that I ignored for years. But it kind of started with a yeast infection,

Scott Benner 28:41
as every good story does,

Beth 28:43
right. And I am not prone to yeast infections. I think I've had to my entire life. And this one came on and was not going away. I mean, I think I struggled with this for four months. Wow. And I was seeing doctors, I was I was getting, you know, I was getting antifungal oral medic medicine. I was getting topical medicine. I was getting internal creams. And it just would not go away. And the lab results were not coming back positive for ease. So we kept thinking, I've got cancer. Right? Yeah. And then they re ran the yeast culture. And it came back positive. And my immediate thought was, oh, shoot. sugar feeds east.

Scott Benner 29:55
Did you did you say it out loud. You're like, Hey, I've diabetes. Did you tell somebody or did they figure it out on their own?

Beth 30:04
Well, I, I figured it out. I called Jordan into my office, because I've been working from home. And I said, I, I think this might be diabetes.

Here, he's looked at me and said, Okay, well now like I said, Well, let me test my blood sugar after lunch.

So I had a salad and the world's tiniest cookie. And an hour later, check my blood sugar was over 300. Right? Yeah, check it again. Oh, still over 300

Scott Benner 30:43
Try different finger. Maybe all the sugars in this one finger.

Beth 30:51
Ah. So I call my mom and I'm like, hey, my blood sugar's over 300 I think I have diabetes. And she's like, No, that could be that could be any, any number of things. I'm in a meeting, I got to go by. Okay. So then I call my doctor. I'm like, Hey, ah, so I checked my blood sugar. I had a salad and a small cookie, he's like, You can't check your blood sugar after you've had a cookie. Like

Scott Benner 31:25
cookies, don't make your blood sugar 300. If your pancreas works, I hope everyone understands that even though your doctors and your mother don't seem to.

Beth 31:36
So, so he said, Well, send me a fasting blood sugar in the morning. And this is an empirical question. And I'm a very logical person. Normally, um, and so I'm like, Okay, there's like some facts around this. And he wants to. He wants to measure that he knows his control. So okay. So I struggled through the rest of the day, send him have blood sugar in the morning. And it's 257. I want to say, somewhere around there. And he's like, Okay, well, I'm going to send in a prescription for Metformin for you. And we'll have a consultation tomorrow,

Scott Benner 32:22
even though your kid has type one,

Beth 32:25
if that was what he and I said, so you don't think you so you don't think this is type one. He said no, it nor type one normally presents with higher with a higher blood sugar.

Scott Benner 32:36
Now, if you catch it sooner, right? Well, and

Beth 32:39
the other thing too, which retrospectively, I think had I not already been in? In DKA. I would have thought through this a little bit more. But I had checked my ketones as well. And they were 5.6 on a blood meter. Oh, my God,

Scott Benner 32:58
this guy's sending you Metformin. Where do these? Do they just hand these license out? Now, at this point, are there too many hot colleges making doctors what's happening? I'm an idiot, Beth, let's be clear about that. And I could have diagnosed you off the things you just say. I mean, my goodness, that's terrible.

Beth 33:19
And here's the funny thing. So that was that was a Tuesday. And so I had an appointment with my therapist who happened to have been, who have who did a research project on exercise in diabetes at the Joslin Institute, um, when she was younger, and so I kind of, you know, she had been aware that we were concerned about cancer, and I said, Well, I'm 99.9% sure that I don't have cancer. And she was like, Well, that's good. And I said that I'm 99.9% sure that I have diabetes. And I think if she could have crawled through the computer screen, she probably would have. Because I mean, she was totally floored. And then I told her what was going on. And she said, you don't have type two. She said that this is type two. I'll eat my hat.

Scott Benner 34:17
Yeah, honestly, how long did it take your poor vagina bounce back after?

Beth 34:23
By that time I had been through, I think eight rounds of an oral antifungal in three rounds of creams. And by that time it finally had healed up thankfully.

Scott Benner 34:37
Yeah, I mean, I don't have one but that seemed horrible. So

Beth 34:42
it was it was pretty awful. Like it was I mean, actually it to totally TMI or graphic here but again on my legs that was starting to not be skin anymore.

Scott Benner 34:52
Oh my god. Yeah, it's not like if you break your wrist, you can just put it in a cast and let it heal. You still got to use that thing. Right away. least what basic stuff and hopefully the other stuff

boy, you're quite a catch. I can see how you guys ended up married. This is something,

Beth 35:13
right? I just come with all the bells and whistles.

Scott Benner 35:16
You're like, listen, here's what I have to offer. I got two kids, one of them has type one diabetes. I think I have diabetes. My my hooch is pretty busted up. And. And I'm in a townhouse. So come on over, sign the papers. We must really love you.

Beth 35:34
He's a pretty stand up guy. Yeah, sorry.

Scott Benner 35:37
That's excellent. All right. So you do you even end up in the hospital over this? Or do you even make it the Metformin guy?

Beth 35:43
I do. So I don't make it to that for my guy. Because this is, this is Tuesday. This is 10 days before Christmas, too. Because we don't you think simple here. And I'm, I'm trying to avoid going to the hospital because there's a pandemic going on? Yeah. And I just don't know how much insulin to give myself is really where I'm at. Right? You know, cuz I've got to, at this point, I have an eight year old and I know what works on an eight year old isn't going to work on 38 year old. So I don't really know.

Scott Benner 36:23
Did you just try? Like, I feel like I would try.

Beth 36:27
I probably in retrospect, should I have this hearing what I dealt with at the hospital? Oddly enough, my brother in law three, my husband, his my my husband's sister? Husband has type one diabetes.

Scott Benner 36:47
Brother in law. You said brother in law, which I understood, and then you described it a different way. Right? Yeah. Like my brother in law than you like my husband's sister. Yeah, your brother.

Beth 37:01
There's no blood relation? Like, no, right. Yeah. Um, but yeah, so he has type one. And so my husband is messaging back and forth with his brother in law saying, Hey, he's like, Well, you could always try just give it her five units and see if it drops. And I'm just, you know, and I'm thinking about what five units says to Jack and I'm thinking you're not getting near me with five units. Insulin, I don't know what that's gonna do. And I don't have a continuous glucose monitor. So there's no way.

Scott Benner 37:32
That's funny. That's interesting. I was wondering like, where you would fall? Like, like, how it would feel? That's the part of your story. I think that's, that's we haven't tapped into yet that I'm super excited to talk about, which is did any of what you understood for your son translate to you? Oh, absolutely. Just scaled up. Just Not That day, when you were like, hey, what's great here? Okay, so you end up in the hospital then?

Beth 37:58
So I do, because, you know, it, I had hit a point to where we'd realize that I was, I was too far gone to mess with it at home, I say. Because at that point, we really, I had also dropped about 35 pounds in three months. You know, and I had thought I had been being super healthy by drinking all this water. And that was what was making me pee so much, right? All the classic signs finally kind of clicked. And that was the point to where I just, you know it and I think I'd had a low carb dinner for I'd had a low carb dinner that night, and passed out on the couch. And Jordan just kind of looked at me and was like, you were gonna go to the hospital one way or the other. Even if I had to toss you in the car and then throw you out of it. Into the

Scott Benner 38:58
horn. Come get this one. I'll take the other two. Oh, diabetes and checker which just drove Yeah, fix all the stuff I need and make sure she doesn't die. And they just drove away. Because of the COVID again, yeah, right. Yeah. Okay. So you go into the car.

Beth 39:19
Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So and we had, you know, we're, we're in North Dallas. And so there's a number of hospitals to choose from, right. And so we, we saw one that had an endo attached to it. Is that okay, we'll go we'll go to this one because they have a specialty available, that will probably mean and so I go into the ER, and like I have, I have diabetes, but I don't know what type and I needed diagnosis. Which is probably not the right thing to say but it was really what my brain Get out at that point. And so they're like, Yeah, okay. And the ER comes in. He was like, So what's going on? And I said, Well, I have I tested my blood sugar at home, I have diabetes, but I don't know what type. My son has type one. I'm pretty sure it's type one. But if we could run the antibody tests, that would be great. And, obviously everything else that you guys need to do. And he just kind of looks at me, he's good. Okay, well, we're going to verify that we're gonna run your ad and see like, Okay, sure. And then, you know, they draw blood and have you piano cap and all of this. My agency was 11. So they're like, yeah, you've got diabetes. Okay, thank you. And, you know, and there was, you know, there was glucose in my urine. And I think when they did a finger stick, it was 287.

Scott Benner 41:05
Okay, well, yeah, you had the low carb meal. Right, right. Yeah.

Beth 41:12
And so they, they start getting me hooked up to stuff and I'm still asking for the antibody test. Oh, they'll pull that for you in the ICU. Okay. But you probably have taped to like, and I'm just, I'm sitting there going. Like, I know, I need to lose a few pounds here. But you haven't taken my medical history. Right?

Scott Benner 41:38
It's, you know, it happens to everybody right path, like, I know, just like they go, Hey, you have weight to lose, you have type two diabetes, Hey, you don't have weight to lose. Just can't be type two diabetes, that people are just like, I mean, it must be. Here's what I'm saying. Medical school must be super easy. That's what I mean. I what I'm figuring is I'm a six hour course away from being able to take out your spleen. That's all.

Beth 42:04
That would not surprise me. Yeah,

Scott Benner 42:05
I just need to learn online. Apparently, kids don't even have to go to college anymore. I'm just sitting in this chair away from being a surgeon as well. I'm thinking I don't, I don't know how, with something as prevalent as diabetes, there couldn't be an extra 20 minutes worth of education about it for doctors. I just like put them all on the same page. Like how hard would it be to put everyone on the same page about type one and type two diabetes? Hey, don't judge people by their body shape. Here's how you figure it out. Like I don't know. I don't understand why we can't fix little problems in the world. You know, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, it happened to you. But still,

Beth 42:44
I mean, it. I knew I knew when I went in there. I was like, This is gonna be I didn't think it would be as much of a fight. As it ended up being. Yeah. But I knew that I would have to try and convince somebody. Right. And so they sent me from the ER to the ICU. Because, I mean, I was I was pretty far gone into DK at that point. And my electrolytes were totally out of balance. So they're hooking me up to all kinds of bags. And I asked for the antibody test again. Oh, no, no, we're not going to do that here that that would happen in your regular room. But you've got type two diabetes. Okay, why are you? Well, you're 38. Okay, you can get type one any age and they're like, Yeah, but this this isn't type one, you can get DK and in type two. So I'm just, you know, I'm like, Alright, pick and choose my battles. I'm not going to get anywhere these people find I'll wait until I get down to the regular room get moved down to the regular room. And the overnight doctor was the first one who actually said hey, all of that sounds reasonable. You have a very close relative with type one. You're not overly obese. Um, um, you know that I would be considered obese. Anyway.

Scott Benner 44:21
Knock out the other title with not overly obese.

Beth 44:25
I mean, I'm overweight, but I'm not. I'm also not the picture of a couch potato either, right? Like I I go hiking, I go walking. I am not an inactive person. And so she seemed totally fine. ordered the test. The morning doctor the daytime doctor, remove the orders from my chart. Really, really? That's fine. Top. Yeah, I

Scott Benner 45:01
hate to have to edit that out. But that's really great. So you got to the right. You did. By the way, I appreciate how you handle this. You ask everybody, then you assess who are the decision makers in the room. Recognize that this isn't going to go anywhere. Keep moving. Keep asking find the person who finally makes sense. And then the next chucklehead comes in and takes it off again. Yeah, so your 344 Bed doctor so far. You've er, I see you overnight. Morning. And you found one. Yeah. And the other ones that knocked that one right out of the convention? Yeah. Interesting. Go ahead.

Beth 45:42
So, um, then we move about the day and these they've switched me off, you know, cuz they've moved me out of ICU. I'm no longer on insulin direction. I'm not on pins. So, um, you know, I think the first meal that I ate was a dinner. And I, you know, I said, Okay, how many carbs? Because I'm thinking, I don't know how much you guys are shooting me up with and you guys aren't checking my blood sugar as often as I'd like anyway. So I'm definitely not going to under eat this first go around. And they said 40 to 60. Well, okay, so I'm gonna order 60 carbs because I don't trust a single person in here.

Scott Benner 46:26
Except the guy and he's gone now. Or the way she was the overnight doc, a woman or a man. I'm sorry. It was it was a woman. Okay. She's gone now. Right?

Beth 46:35
Yeah. And so then my, so my blood sugar went high overnight. And they're like, Okay, you know, how much how much did you ask them? Well, you told me to cover, you know, up to 60 carbs. So I ordered 60 carbs. Oh, let's try and knock that down to 40. Okay, so I had an omelette and a bagel for breakfast. And by lunch, my blood sugar went up to 400 something.

Scott Benner 46:59
Yeah, hospital bagels are not even like grocery store bagels. Which are not even bagels. And for those of you who don't live on the east coast, you have no idea what a bagel is. And that's a judgment straight from I really probably

Beth 47:13
don't. It's thinking Siri like, my exposure has been Texas April's Yeah, so

Scott Benner 47:19
it's not even a thing. You don't even understand what you're doing. Right? So it's great. So when my brother tells me he's getting pizza, you're not getting pizza, you're in Wisconsin. Stop it so okay. So they've successfully jacked your blood sugar back up again.

Beth 47:38
I'm blaming me because I shouldn't be eating a bagel. I'm nevermind that they're they're giving me insulin. So I don't think the bagel is the problem. I think it's the lack of insulin. But you know, that's fine. And at this point is when the arguments with the daytime Doctor really start? Because I was very insistent on getting this test. And she just refused to put it. And I hadn't realized that she had removed it from my chart. Or from my orders.

Scott Benner 48:14
Yeah, how would you know?

Beth 48:16
And so, um, I'm, relatively speaking, a fairly mild mannered person. But it hit a point around four o'clock that afternoon during shift change, where there were two nurses, and both of the techs in my room as I was shouting, that if only there was some way to figure out which type of diabetes I have. Oh, right. There's a king test. Why don't you order it?

Scott Benner 48:56
You were yelling this?

Beth 48:57
Yes, with the door open. So I'm sure I was like, very well looked upon by the rest of the hospital staff at that point, but I didn't care. I wanted my test I wanted. The only reason I walked into the ER was to get a diagnosis and to get my blood sugar down. Right. Right. And they weren't really doing either one of those things.

Scott Benner 49:20
They were they still charging you though? I imagine you were getting billed every day. $10,000 a day to be there. Oh,

Beth 49:26
thankfully, I have pretty good insurance. But I did see what the original amount was. And I was like, There's no way your guys are getting that money out of me.

Scott Benner 49:36
No one's paying that for your scattershot help. What what what ends up being like, do you figure it out in the hospital like this somebody save you or how does this end up at an endo?

Beth 49:50
So pretty much what ended up happening was the overnight doctor came in and I'd made so much noise the nurse actually asked her about the The test and she said, Well, I ordered that last night, why wasn't it drawn? So they drew the they put the order back on, and made sure to have the blood drawn before the daytime doctor came in. And she was super thrilled when she found out that I had done this, that I worked my way around. Um, and then I was out of the hospital, I think two days after that. And somehow and during this time, you know, my husband was calling in those around town trying to get me in somewhere. And there was a doctor who could see me first thing in January, I think, I was like, You know what, they're gonna give me enough insulin to get me through January will be fine.

And got out of the hospital on a Saturday. Monday, I got a call from the endo office saying, Hey, we had a cancellation. So tomorrow, can you come in? Oh, heck, yes, I can.

Scott Benner 51:10
You might, by the way, I'm sorry. Are we gonna get to the end of this office and find out that these people are inept, too, or is this somebody?

Beth 51:18
A good story? This is Yeah, no, the end was great. And it was fantastic. Excellent. And so I go in and, you know, I'm explaining to him the situation. He was like, they didn't do any diagnostic tests. And I said, Well, I had to beg and plead for the antibody tests, but it hasn't come back yet. He just kind of sighs he said, Okay, well, we'll order a C peptide. And we'll order an in antibody test. And I got the results from the endo before I got the results from the hospital.

Scott Benner 51:52
I want to jump ahead a little bit, but I do have to ask you, did you ever go to the doctor that cancelled the orders have you sent them like, like a card that says I have type one diabetes, you suck or something like that?

Beth 52:04
I know what I did file a formal complaint against her with the hospital, and I let them know that she misdiagnosed me. Fun times.

Scott Benner 52:11
Good for her. Yeah, try harder. So now, how long ago was this? Six months?

Beth 52:18
Yeah, a little less than six months. But yeah.

Scott Benner 52:21
How is it going for you? What how are you finding the transition for yourself versus what your experience was with your son?

Beth 52:30
So it's been a little, it's had both it's seamless parts, and it's less seamless parts. So you know, once I got the official diagnosis, I was able to go into my endo and say, and actually, when I had gone into him the first time he I said I want to I came in here for two things. I want a diagnosis and a Dexcom. And I left with the Dexcom. Yeah. So that was pretty awesome.

Scott Benner 53:00
Did they give you the whole setup, or did they give you that Hello? Dexcom thing?

Beth 53:04
No, no, they gave me a transmitter and sensor.

Scott Benner 53:07
Yeah, but did it did the box say hello? Dexcom on it. Do you remember? So? Yeah, that's a new program. They have were doctors or have those in their offices? Yeah, that's interesting. Cool.

Beth 53:19
It was it was pretty awesome. I have to say like it was. I was like Christmas came early. I'm

Scott Benner 53:26
actually late because then this all happened six months. Like right but right at Christmas.

Beth 53:30
Right? It did. The Endo. I had my first very first appointment with the Endo, I think two or three days before Christmas.

Scott Benner 53:41
Oh, well. Oh, so that whole story happened very quickly, then. Yeah, gotcha. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Well, then Christmas did indeed come early.

Beth 53:49
It is awesome. Like, hey, I can actually eat on Christmas because I can feel my blood sugar is doing it. Now I have an insulin to carb ratio. So I can actually figure out how much insulin I need for stuff.

Scott Benner 53:59
Yeah. Are you using pens though?

Beth 54:01
I am not. That was another issue was that they sent me the hospital sent me home with with pens, but no needle caps. And when they sent the prescriptions in, they send a prescription in for pens which weren't covered by my insurance and did not send in any needle cap prescriptions. So they were super helpful. I ended up having to use Jack's insulin in leftover syringes when when he was still on MDI.

Scott Benner 54:31
I'm just laughing because you just imagined at some point his story, something would go right. And you're down into the nitty gritty now right of like, the the syringes they gave you and you still it's fascinating it really and and I want to bring this up. I've been thinking this for 30 minutes now. You're a younger person who has a child with type one diabetes. Imagine you're 55 years old, don't know anything Think about diabetes, this exact the health thing happens to you. You are in your house right now taking Metformin thinking you have type two diabetes? Oh, yeah. 100 Well,

Beth 55:09
or if I had gone to the hospital, because at that point, I would have been comatose. You know, I've been back in the hospital because they didn't send me home with insulin that I could use or anything to use it with

Scott Benner 55:23
right now. Yeah. You You basically are the, the source of all information in this scenario, right? No one else is helping you. Except the one doctor who apparently they only let work when the sun's not up for somebody.

Beth 55:39
Right? Yeah. Go on her actually talking to the patient. Yeah, right. Good idea.

Scott Benner 55:42
She might she might figure out what's wrong with them. Oh my gosh. Wow. So so you're sorry. Are you using a pump now?

Beth 55:55
I am I Yeah. So I got into an omni pod. I think two days before my wedding. So that would have been February 10.

Scott Benner 56:07
Wow. And your son uses which pump? Omnipod? Oh, you just have a big stack of them.

Beth 56:12
Right? We have interchangeable matching equipment. We use everything the same except for our insulin.

Scott Benner 56:18
Okay. Really? What insulin do you use? So I want Novolog. And

Beth 56:22
Jack, if I'm Hema luck,

Scott Benner 56:24
really? Is that?

Beth 56:26
It's yeah, it's insurance. Funny enough, we both have Blue Cross Blue Shield, but we have two different versions of BlueCross BlueShield.

Scott Benner 56:33
I say? I say Wow. Is it scary? Or giving yourself insulin? Or let me say that in English? Is it scarier? Giving yourself insulin or giving it to a kid?

Beth 56:49
To a kid? Okay.

Scott Benner 56:52
Do you know why? Um yeah,

Beth 57:02
I guess it's the idea of if a train is coming at you, and you can throw your kid out of the way first. That's what you're gonna do. Right?

Scott Benner 57:11
Right. So you feel like if there's the possibility, you're going to make a mistake. You feel less frightened about making it on yourself than on him? Yeah. Okay. Do you use a lot more insulin than he does? Are you honeymoon? Oh, yeah.

Beth 57:25
No, oh, no, no, I straight went to 30. When I was still on NDI, it was 30 units of love Amir. Like from the get go, okay. And, and

Scott Benner 57:40
was that hard for you? Like, because the number.

Beth 57:43
I mean, the first couple of times, I was just like, whoa, this better go right. And then it went right a couple of times. So I was like, okay, you know, I mean, height, weight, age. Here we are. And then it was, I think that also allowed Jordan and I to kind of reassess, like, Okay, this is where we're going like, this is where Jack's going to get to at some point. So we know that there's just going to be incremental increases along the way.

Scott Benner 58:13
Ah, oh, good. So it gave you some insight that because that's where people struggle a lot. Their kids get bigger, and they don't use any more insulin. And they're like, I don't understand his blood sugar's are going up now. Like, well, yeah, weighs 12 more pounds than he did last year. And you're still having 1.35 Basal rate, you know, like, that kind of thing. Oh, so that was helpful eye opening for you for that. Yeah, absolutely. I hear adults all the time. Tell people like with kids who have type one, they're like, Wait till you see how much insulin you use when you're older. It's gonna freak you out. And yeah, you know, what's the biggest Bolus? You've made it a meal? Um,

Beth 58:51
I think I've probably done 25 or 30 units for a meal before.

Scott Benner 58:57
Do you feel like are you like superior in that situation? You like Jack? Look at this.

Beth 59:01
I have shown him a couple of times because, like, he'll see a five unit Bolus. And like, that's a big meal for him. And I'll be like, hey, hey, come here. Look at this. See? Mommy's getting 25 units. I just, you know, big as pastors.

Scott Benner 59:17
We still little too, right. Like, what is he? 10? Ah,

Beth 59:21
he'll be nine in September actually.

Scott Benner 59:23
Yeah, I mean, that's the son still have like a little kid. How Yeah, was it? I just like stuttered through 18 sounds and didn't make one word. Everyone go back and listen that again. I was like, this felt stupid while I was doing it. How's his reaction been to you having type one.

Beth 59:47
So that that's kind of a funny thing in itself. As we were heading out the door to drop me off at the ER because it was a family adventure. I'm here says to me, honestly, Mom, I'm kind of scared. But I'm kind of excited to not be the only one in the house with diabetes anymore. I understand that. And there was sort of part of me that kind of wanted to go, well, Merry freaking Christmas kids.

Scott Benner 1:00:18
Listen, I gotta tell you something, I see where this would bring you comfort, but I'm really hoping it's not that.

Beth 1:00:25
Well, and that that was kind of the other thing, too is, is, I was kind of hoping it was type one. Because I didn't want to have to learn another disease.

Scott Benner 1:00:36
Right? Understand. I

Beth 1:00:38
mean, you know, I know that sounds kind of weird. Because everybody's like, no, no, shouldn't you hope that it takes you because you can make that go away? And I'm like, Oh, God, I've got to relearn everything. If it's that, like, if it's type one, just slap the stuff on me. And let me go. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:00:53
At least you didn't need a coochie ectomy. Right, yeah, or whatever would have happened. The I don't obviously, know. I'm not an OBGYN. by trade. I have what you might call a tangential understanding of the area, but nothing medical. Yeah, no, I get that like, well, at least we'll have to learn something new is a reasonable like thought, honestly. And has it brought him comfort? Do you think?

Beth 1:01:22
I think so. Um, you know, we were going through some periods where he was screaming pretty loud with his car changes. And, um, you know, I had him do a couple not do my power changes, but I had him activate them. Yeah. And, you know, I would just look at them, I wouldn't make a sound. I was like, Alright, I'm doing this every three days. Why are you screaming? And it's kind of allowed us to kind of reframe some of that for him of, you know, this. It's, it's something that we just have to do. And there's times where it's sex. There's times where it definitely sex. And there are, there have been, I say, there are some days where I don't want to diabetes. And those are the days where, you know, I probably eat more cheese and nuts, and salami, that is really healthy. Um, because I just don't want to mess with my blood sugar. I just don't want to. I know, I'm going to have to eventually because of the protein and the way all of that works. But I don't have to mess with it the way that I would like eating a sandwich.

Scott Benner 1:03:00
Yeah. I mean, I've seen Arvind, do that. Like, just be like, I'm just having a salad for dinner? Because I just, I'm not up for this today. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, I can understand that. Do you ever see Jack do it.

Beth 1:03:16
Um, he hasn't really hit that point. And I think that's because we haven't really transferred any of the ownership of it over. You know, I mean, he's still eight. So we will have him Bolus himself sometimes. But we don't have him try to count off the carbs or anything. Although he did get really excited when I showed him the food library. Up in the dash, because he was like, Oh, I can show this to dad. And now when we get McDonald's, we can just go in here. And I can bring it up down the menu.

Scott Benner 1:03:53
You're like, what? Could you not go to McDonald's? Would that be easier? Please help me someone helped me. Anybody? Help me. It is a nice feature to have that do you find the food library comes pretty close for the carbs.

Beth 1:04:07
It comes relatively close. Usually what happens with us is almost without fail when we're doing this higher carb meals is it'll be on a day where we've had more activity. And so Jack and I will end up you know, snacking on something later. So we're still trying to figure that out. We've done a few family hikes and it took a couple of those for us to kind of really realize okay, we just need to cut the Basal like in half for the duration of this. So it is kind of one of the things where I feel like I'm helping him learn more quicker. Um, because he also sees me doing it.

Scott Benner 1:04:59
I have to be Be honest, I'm just thinking I joked earlier about it, because I was just being stupid. But now I definitely want to keep the podcast going for like six more years and have you back again, because I can't wait to figure out what you guys figure out together. Like as he heads off to college, and right, you know what I mean? And you're like, it's just, it's, it's gonna be like a strangely fascinating journey, especially that you're diagnosed after him. I don't know why I find that to be more like unique.

Beth 1:05:30
It's not super common is is what I've picked up on. It's happened. You know, there's a, there's a few people in a couple of Facebook groups, but it's not super common for whatever and and to have the ages be so spread, right? Because like, you don't have a ton of two year olds being diagnosed. And then you don't have a ton of 38 year olds being diagnosed either.

Scott Benner 1:05:57
Yeah, you guys got both?

Beth 1:05:59
Right. Yeah, I have actually said to people, I was like, Don't try and throw any kind of, you know, numbers or statistics at me because they just don't apply to this house.

Scott Benner 1:06:11
Do you guys have any other autoimmune stuff?

Beth 1:06:15
Well, that's actually why we thought that I might have ended up having lotta that I ignored because I also, within the last six years developed asthma and eczema.

Scott Benner 1:06:29
Yeah, those are both like autoimmune, right? Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Look at this. Wow. Well, what a little train wreck this is, I enjoyed this conversation very much. Does the kid look nervous? The baby is she like, Hey, you dodged with your diet.

Beth 1:06:50
I mean, she, you know, she don't know.

Scott Benner 1:06:53
But I mean, are you gonna?

Beth 1:06:54
You guys know? She absolutely 100% Like, oh, to say so. So I'm, I've been in counseling for five years, right? And Jackson in counseling for three or four Emmys been in counseling for a couple of years. And I just part of that with me is, you know, I have on top of everything else, I have bipolar and EDD. And so mental health is something that is very important to me. And trying to set the kids up for success with that as well. Because it's, I mean, just the odds are one of them's going to end up with this other fun disease as well.

Scott Benner 1:07:41
Trying to be ahead of it. That's really good. I actually, hey, you know, you're, you've got to be like, I gotta be five or six people deep into type one and bipolar. People just bring like, they just comes up more and more. Have you heard the bipolar episodes?

Beth 1:07:58
I haven't caught up to those yet. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. No, I did. I did listen to Danny's on trauma and addiction. Yeah. Which was super cathartic. That was a really great one to hear. And then I have kind of said, oh, I need to get to these other ones, but I'm very particular and what and listening to everything chronologically.

Scott Benner 1:08:25
I don't want to get in the way your craziness you do whatever you need to do. That's fine.

Beth 1:08:30
We're all a little crazy. It's just which brand are you?

Scott Benner 1:08:33
Whatever works for you. I'm 100%. Okay, with as long as you're subscribed in a podcast app, downloading new episodes and listening, you can do it in any order you want. But and and if Daniel hear this, and he'll be very happy to know that the the episode was valuable for you. But But yeah, I mean, I'm. So what you'll hear me do when they're on is I'm googling you know, at points. And there are doctors who see bipolar as autoimmune kick, you're like why not?

Beth 1:09:09
You know, chunk it in there.

Scott Benner 1:09:11
One of the more recent discoveries in the study of bipolar disorder is that autoimmune disease may play a role in the conditions Development Studies have found that having an autoimmune disease or suffering a severe infection increases the risk of having bipolar disorder. That's all that's all I know. But I all I can tell you is that the number of people who are on the show, who mentioned bipolar, are starting to stack up. So it's sort of like it's not quite up to the speed of like, and I have hypothyroidism. Right. Yeah. Which is just like I bought this purse, and I got this great handbag. To put it in, like a that just seems like at this point, like one goes with the other for most people. Right? It's not quite up to that, but I am noticing people mentioning it. Yeah. Anyway, it's interesting. At the very least Not the people who are fighting with it to them. It's hard. But it's interesting.

Beth 1:10:04
It really is. And I'm actually coming off of this is my last week of a six week leave of absence due to a depressive depressive episode. So

Scott Benner 1:10:15
is it? Can you feel it? Like, I'll let you go after this? Because we're over time. But do you like notice it happening? Are you like, do you feel like warning signs coming? And you can get, like, at least make plans to be ahead of it a little bit? Or how does that work?

Beth 1:10:30
Yes, so some of them I can, um, this last one was pretty detrimental to the point where I, I have been able to sustain most of my mental health for about 10 to 13 years without medication. And the this last episode, I needed to go back on medication. And so that this last one really kind of hit me. I don't want to say out of nowhere, but it was. There wasn't a foreseeable trigger to it.

Scott Benner 1:11:16
Okay. Does the medication impact your blood sugar at all?

Beth 1:11:21
Um, oddly, if it does anything, it makes it easier to control and it drops it. Oh, okay. And that that might also be so I also got, so I'm on an anti psychotic, which I'm sure my exes would all say like, yeah, that fit. So I'm on anti psychotic and a stimulant for a DD. And so it's kind of hard to tell which one is doing, which. But my blood sugar has definitely been easier to get lower.

Scott Benner 1:11:55
Okay. Can I ask one question and then just preface it by saying you don't have to answer it. Like, we can just end up at like, I'll ask it. And if you want to answer it, you can. And if you don't want to answer it, I'll skip to saying goodbye to you. And I'll cut out the part where I asked it. Okay. Did you have some sort of a trauma earlier in your life?

Beth 1:12:14
I actually have complex post traumatic stress disorder. So

Scott Benner 1:12:19
got it. Yes, yes. I see. Alright, because Danny's episode was a weird one to call up for me like it you got that out of you pulled that one out of left field when I was talking while you were talking? And also, if bipolar can be triggered by an infection, you had bipolar before you had type one, which is what made me ask? Yeah, got it. Okay. Wow, Beth, you up for this again? In five or six more years? Sure. Just get you on the calendar right now.

Beth 1:12:52
It seems like we might have to as far out as your book,

Scott Benner 1:12:55
you know? Well, first of all, this won't go up for like six months. And that has nothing to do with you. But do you know that yesterday? Yesterday, June 8 2021. Someone booked a recording for June 6 2022? Oh my gosh. And I felt kind of like, proud when it happened. Oh, yeah. This thing is so busy. People are like, I can do it in a year. I'd love to no trouble at all, knowing full well that they're going to wait a year to say something that won't be heard for 18 for 18 months from the day that I was really touched by like, proud in a like a, again, a humbled way. Like I was really touched by the idea that someone that it would mean enough for someone to be on the podcast for them to go through those kind of machinations to do that is really cool. So I'm glad you reached back out again. I'm super sorry, you got diabetes. But great story.

Beth 1:13:53
Well, thanks. Yeah, no, I'm I did. I did say to my husband, you know, if there was gonna be one of us in the house, to get it to make Jack feel more included. I'm glad it was me.

Scott Benner 1:14:13
Yeah. No, I understand that. Well, you're going to provide a real great comfort for him that you might never fully appreciate. But yeah, he's like his mom. You know what I mean? Right. Yeah, it's pretty great actually, in a really strange way. Not like people talk about diabetes the way I do.

Beth 1:14:32
Hey, you know, I, I always said to dec, everybody's got something we found is out early, and we found out a few of mine a little bit later.

Scott Benner 1:14:42
You know, one day I'll get it and you'll just hear me go kicking and screaming like, when it happens to you. I'm like, you know, it's great that your son's got a it'll happen to me one day and I'll just be on here for three hours just mumbling into the microphone like him. It got me it got me You know, I won't, I won't handle it nearly as well as I talk about it. That's for certain.

Beth 1:15:05
Right? Well, I think if it happened in any year besides 2020, I would have had that same reaction. But given the entirety of 2020. Like, once it hit in December, I was just like, oh, this thing here is yeah, this is this is how 2020 And for me,

Scott Benner 1:15:20
why not? I thought a meteor was gonna hit the house, but this is just as good. Cheese. Wow. Well, you've got the most interesting story at Christmas dinner next year. That's for certain. I mean, oh, yeah. Virtual Christmas dinner? No. Oh, God, I hope that this Christmas, do you know, let me let me I do have to go in a second. Actually. I'm recording twice today. So I have to go collect myself before I do this again. But it's super boring story. I had to replace the pressure valve on our hot water heater yesterday. Those of you who think I'm famous, now realize I'm not. But I met the Home Depot. And I believe I was the only person wearing a mask in Home Depot. And that took me by surprise. I'm vaccinated. But I just like, I was like, I don't know. It's in the car. Like I put it on, you know what I mean? Like, just seemed right. Like I I'm super happy to have not had a cold for the last 18 months really sounds like, you know, Oh, yeah.

Beth 1:16:13
No, no, I mean, you know, there, there are things about the Northeast that I'm very, very much jealous of right now, because I am not. I'm originally from Wisconsin, when Wisconsin was a very blue state. And I currently live in Dallas, Texas.

Scott Benner 1:16:36
Do you think it's do you think it's politically motivated by people's mask wearing?

Beth 1:16:41
I think some of it is. And I think I think here, specifically, it has been okay.

Scott Benner 1:16:50
I have to admit, I pick it up. And I'm like, I don't know if this is really necessary or not at this point. But what the hell? I don't feel right forced to do it. I'm just like, why? I mean, it hasn't bothered me. I've been doing it for a while. It really doesn't bother me. And so, but I'm vaccinated. And I was like, yeah, like, I mean, I don't know. Like, it just didn't occur to me, I'm sure one day it won't. Having said that I was with my son somewhere a couple of weeks ago, in a place where it's like a private place. There weren't a ton of people in it. And you had to prove if you were vaccinated or not. And if you if you were good enough to where I'm asking if you weren't, you did, and I went in there without a mask, and I never thought twice about it. I know. It seems it's all kind of arbitrary. I don't really know how I feel about any of it to be honest.

Beth 1:17:35
Yeah, I mean, at this point, it's, you know, I think I'll feel better about it when I'm able to get the kids vaccinated. Cuz that that's always been, that's always been the leading factor for me is

Scott Benner 1:17:52
is their health right soon, right, though? By age. You can. They're eligible. Right?

Beth 1:17:57
I think. I think Well, Jack will be eligible before Eddie, because he'll be nine in September. But me still six.

Scott Benner 1:18:05
Really? It's Texas, I thought you're allowed to do whatever you wanted?

Beth 1:18:09
Well,

Scott Benner 1:18:10
the one thing you're not allowed to do.

Beth 1:18:12
That's the one thing you're not allowed to do, apparently? Well, I

Scott Benner 1:18:15
think if you could put the vaccine on a bullet, you would be allowed to shoot somebody with a go. That's thinking. I don't know if that would work how the vaccines work exactly. Again, not a doctor. So I'm not

Beth 1:18:26
here on the Juicebox Podcast is medical is should be considered advice, medical or otherwise fairly

Scott Benner 1:18:31
common sense is definitely not medical advice. Well, I really appreciate you doing this and taking the time. I want to thank you. No, thank you very much. It's been a joy. getting back together with you again, I can't believe you were on like, seven years ago. It's insane that I kept this going. But it's even more insane that you're like aware of it still. And that's crazy. Oh, oh, I'm so happy. It's just hard for me to fathom. Like, you have to put yourself in my shoes. Did I mean like, I'm like, I'll do a thing had seven years later. It's like oh, comes out three times a week and listen to like, constantly by like all over the world. And that was I didn't think all that was gonna happen. You know, I definitely didn't think like back then I was I probably was like, I can't believe I trick these people into coming on my podcast and nobody listens to and but but for you coming on you helped build it. But here's a great story. Great stories in the beginning that that helped build the podcast. So it it should be interesting for you to know and then I will let you go. That in the first 24 hours that your episode is out. It will it will be heard more than probably your first episodes entirety. Oh, wow. Isn't that weird? Yeah. The podcast gets more downloads a day now than it would have taken four months in the first year to get as many done I get a day now. That's bizarre, like I'm flabbergasted by it still, like I will never be accustomed to it.

Beth 1:20:08
And still, it's a testament to the good work you're doing.

Scott Benner 1:20:11
I just want more. That's nice you to say, but I just I want, I wanted to reach more people. I want to win. I don't even know what I'm trying to win. Whatever it is, I want to win it.

Beth 1:20:21
You're trying to win diabetes.

Scott Benner 1:20:22
It's probably an illness. that competitive nature is likely. I've probably bumped my head when I was a little kid. But but in honesty, I really if the podcast is helpful to people, then it feels incumbent to try to reach more people. So that's how it feels to me for real one, I'm not joking about it.

I'd like to thank touched by type one.org for being a longtime sponsor of the Juicebox Podcast, and reminds you to check them out on Facebook and Instagram, and go see what they're doing at touched by type one.org. Also want to thank Beth for being a returning guest after seven years, and sharing her story as it grows. Maybe I'm gonna have to have on some more return guests. This was really interesting. I like catching up with that. If you're enjoying the Juicebox Podcast, please leave a fantastic rating and review wherever you listen. And don't forget to subscribe and follow in the podcast app that you're listening in right now.

Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.


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#601 Gina Made Me Loop

Scott Benner

Gina dared me to Loop and she has a child living with type 1 diabetes.

You can always listen to the Juicebox Podcast here but the cool kids use: Apple Podcasts/iOS - Spotify - Amazon MusicGoogle Play/Android - iHeart Radio -  Radio PublicAmazon Alexa or wherever they get audio.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT


DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends. Jeez. Try that again. Hello friends, and welcome to episode 601 of the Juicebox Podcast

today on the show I'm going to be speaking with Gina and Gina made me loop. I think that's the episode title Gina made me loop. Yeah, that's what I'm gonna go with. Anyway, my daughter uses a do it yourself algorithm called loop. It is not from any company, it's available on the internet. And a long time ago Now Gina pretty much dared me to try it. And that's the story you're going to hear today plus other conversation. Please remember while you're listening that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan, or becoming bold with insulin. Don't forget to head over to t one D exchange.org. Forward slash juice box and fill out the survey. If you're a US resident who has type one diabetes or care for someone with type one, this survey will take you less than 10 minutes. It's completely HIPAA compliant, absolutely anonymous, and supports people living with type one diabetes, as well as the Juicebox Podcast.

This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the Dexcom G six continuous glucose monitor, learn more and get started today@dexcom.com forward slash juice box. The Dexcom G six continuous glucose monitor is at the heart of how my daughter and I make decisions about her type one diabetes, and I think it would help you as well. Imagine being able to see not only the speed and direction but the number of a blood sugar 127 heading up. That's amazing. 127 heading up three points per minute. Even better information, you're seeing the number, the speed, and the direction. And if you want, you can share that information with up to 10 followers on Android or iPhone phones. So there's a share and follow feature as well. You probably should head over to dexcom.com Ford slash juice box to learn more. The data that the Dexcom G six provides is in valuable, irreplaceable and absolutely tingling tinggly Making you make the little tingle feelings when you think about it. I'm saying you get excited. You're like ooh, I can see which way the blood sugar is going. I know what to do now with food, with exercise with insulin. make an informed choice. dexcom.com forward slash juicebox

Gina 3:01
Hi, this is Gina from Kansas City.

Scott Benner 3:05
Gina from Kansas City. Excellent. Gina. We've met each other one day. Right? One time at the Kansas City JDRF extravaganza

Gina 3:16
that's right at the summit or whatever they call it here. Whatever they JDRF

Scott Benner 3:22
whatever they call it. Yeah, I don't think they're ever gonna call it anything ever again. But yeah, that one was a summit. What do you remember about that day?

Gina 3:35
Um, I was there volunteering for Nightscout representing the Nightscout organization. And we we have talked a few times before that. So I knew you were going to be there. And it was kind of, you know, fun to get to meet you in person.

Scott Benner 3:53
It's like a celebrities coming almost a little bit like, like, but, but like somebody in like a Mickey Mouse costume. Kind of where you're like, this is fun, but not that great.

Gina 4:08
No, it was a good day. It was fun. And it was interesting, too. I haven't done a lot with JDRF. And so it was fun to just kind of see the whole type of forum thing come together.

Scott Benner 4:22
Yes. I get a lot of hard boiled eggs that day. I will never explain why. That's all.

Gina 4:28
Yeah, I don't even want to hide. Yeah,

Scott Benner 4:30
I won't tell you why don't worry. I'm just I just wanted to bring it up. That's all. What I so what I remember about the day was that you and I have had obviously spoken previously. And I'm just getting to meet you and I thought it was really cool that you were there trying to just help with you know people to understand Nightscout I thought that was a really big deal. I want you to know that I still fundamentally don't understand it. That is not your fault at all. Right now Ardens Nightscout frequently locks me out and I have to put a password back in to get back in people tell me there's a way to fix that. But then it seems to involve coding and then I'm done. So,

Gina 5:09
right. I don't really Yeah. I don't want to misrepresent myself as someone who is the tech guru of any kind. And I had nothing to do with Nightscout being developed. I am just a and or looped, or any of the other. No, no, we're just they're parts of that community.

Scott Benner 5:28
You're spreading the word. Right?

Gina 5:30
Right. And I'm truly an end user who only follows instructions, like a cookbook recipe and you get me outside of that realm. And I'm, I'm lost pretty quickly, but I know who to ask. So that's always been my way to encourage people is to be like, well, I know who we can ask. So let's go ask.

Scott Benner 5:49
That's why I found it to be really nice, because you really, were just volunteering your time just trying to get the word out about something. That's really cool. Are you talking with your hands a lot? If you are, please stop, like touching it.

Gina 5:59
Okay. Yeah, I'm Italian, and we talk with our hands, so I'm gonna have to sit on them or something. Yeah.

Scott Benner 6:05
So far, I I'm pretty sure that I could identify seven of the things on the table in front of you just by how they say.

Gina 6:14
Awesome. Makes me feel so much more comfortable than I already.

Scott Benner 6:20
Are you nervous to do this?

Gina 6:22
Um, maybe yeah, I didn't. I didn't know that I was, but apparently I might be. And I'm just a fidget. By nature. So holding still is hard.

Scott Benner 6:33
Alright, well, you can move your hands as much as you want. Just trying to tap the table or anything that makes noise. Okay. All right. So if you're just flailing about wildly Fine with me if you don't hit the headphones or the table.

Gina 6:44
Okay, very good.

Scott Benner 6:46
So, but you have probably been indirectly mentioned in the podcast more than anyone else. Are you aware of that? It's never by name. You're always what? The person who made me try lube?

Gina 7:00
Yes, yes. You might have mentioned my name one time, right. I find it more fun

Scott Benner 7:06
to set you up as a superhero supervillain type situation.

Gina 7:11
I did double dog dare you. You did.

Scott Benner 7:13
And so at that point, did we know each other at all? We didn't.

Gina 7:18
I had been, I would send you a message every once in a while about because I had been listening to the podcasts all along as well. And so I would kind of just comment or whatever, nothing major. And then loop became available on Omni pod, I want to say was like, what has it been two years and the spring? And that is when I reached out and said, Hey, Scott, you ready to do this? Are you ready to get a little more sleep, I think is what I might have said,

Scott Benner 7:54
what made you ask me?

Gina 7:58
Because you? Well, a couple things. First of all, I wanted to always find a way to give back to this community, the DIY community, because they're so amazing. And so many people have spent so many hours of their own volunteer time breaking this thing down and then making it available to all of us. And I because I'm not tech oriented, I knew that I could never contribute in that way. So it had occurred to me that if I could get you to talk about it on the podcast, that way more people that I could ever reach with our little local community builds would be made aware of it. And so plus, it sounded like you were working on Arden stuff long enough that I could appreciate as a parent that you probably weren't getting as much sleep as you would like, just like the rest of us.

Scott Benner 8:49
Yeah, sleep is. Yeah, much more plentiful. With with an algorithm, sleep is much more plentiful. It really is. I was saying to somebody the other day that I don't think Well, that's the wrong phrasing. It would be hard to imagine a scenario overnight where the loop couldn't at least stop Arden by the time she was 50. And right, and that's, you know, right cousin. I'm not trying to say that happens every night. I'm trying to say if her blood sugar is trying to go down overnight, it's not some like crazy. Like, we used way too much insulin scenario or something like that. That, you know if she's drifting, even when Yes, even when it has trouble. She doesn't usually get below 50. Which I agree

Gina 9:29
yeah, which is if your settings are anywhere near where they should be. Yeah, it's gonna. It's gonna stop you, for sure.

Scott Benner 9:38
It's pretty cool. Yes, it's the part of the episode where I remind people that loop is a do it yourself algorithm that's not from any company has not been passed through the FDA in any way. It's just a robot of great people working on coding and this thing works really, really well. Somebody had to hack into On the pod to make it work, right? That was a yes. thing. And, and yeah, we do use it. And it's pretty amazing. Now, having said that, I do wonder how long it's going to be available? Do you ever think about that?

Gina 10:17
I do every day. Not every day. But yeah, regularly. I think that this community is, I don't even know the right word to use, but they, the people that are involved are and it's it's different people kind of all the time that are chiming in and adding their own piece to all this. They're so driven, that I don't know that any commercial, the commercial options as they do come available, will attract people for sure. Because they'll just be kind of simpler, you'll have that, you know, warranty type thing available. And that will call to a lot of the non tech people, but there are going to be those who are always just will, you know, needing to push the envelope. They want things the way they want them. And I'm not sure but, you know, the FDA approval process will move along anywhere near fast enough. So I'm hoping to cling to their coattails as long as I know. So if I really appreciate all the features, yeah. Oh, no,

Scott Benner 11:21
I was I'm sorry. I didn't mean to step on you. But it's interesting, the way you took the the the question, because I think the people are amazing. And the way it morphs and people come in and out of it. That's fantastic. I don't imagine that would ever stop. I just look at a company using Omni pod as an example. And I think How long do I expect them to make three different versions of their insulin pump? Right? Right. If one of them's going to go by the wayside? Isn't it going to be the oldest one? Like they're not going to stop making Dash? And they're not going to stop making Omnipod? Five, when it comes out? Right? But like, is it? I don't know the company. But is it reasonable for them to make three of these like, like, if I made a Nissan Altima, and you know, one of the ultimas had, I don't know, some partial self driving feature, and one of the Ultimates didn't, and one of the Ultimates had a third thing like how long before I was just like, whoa, you know, let's move people to the more advanced features, and making the i That's the thing that concerns me more than anything, it's like, are the the accessibility of the pump going to go away? At some point?

Gina 12:29
I do. I do agree that it could happen. And in that case, yeah, we'd have to make a decision. And our house, I do still hold. You know, we started back. Prior to Omni loop. We did the Medtronic, the old Medtronic pumps, and I have not sent my old pump off. For my son, he would really be unhappy to go back to a tube pump, I do believe but we would always have that option, I guess, as well. But yeah, I am hoping that it will all coincide nicely with a really nice upgrade to the Omnipod. What are they calling it horizon or five, five, that we can you know, one, one, and if they do, and we use all the pods that I've hoarded, that hoarded a little pile. There might be a small pile building up. And so we'll get through that. And then we'll go from there. Right. And by then he might be old enough to voice an opinion on things and tell me he's done with me managing him anyway. And then maybe some of those features wouldn't be as important. But being able to monitor him, we have some ability to do remote overrides, as you know. And he and just using the same phone, you know, he has, he carries one phone that he uses for everything and unlike or, you know, much like every other young preteen in America, he's, you know, he he has more buy in to use the phone that he has with him. Anyway.

Scott Benner 14:14
He's got it. Yeah, well, alright, I don't I obviously have no idea what's gonna happen. I'm just, it's just like, it doesn't make sense to me, just from a purely business scenario that they would keep making. Like it would be like if Dexcom still made the Dexcom four and the five and the six and then they're gonna make this like at some point, things, like they start making older stuff. And that's right. And then that's to me, where, where that where you'd have an issue and how many people? I mean, honestly, how many people really use loop?

Gina 14:45
Yeah, it's a fraction. It's a it's a tiny fraction compared to everything else. And I even think that there will be people that will be happy to, you know, move quickly into the commercial versions of things. as they become available, and so, we in our house will kind of take that case by case, I suppose and just sort of ride the wave as it goes, because, you know, that's a lot of unknown and we figure it out.

Scott Benner 15:15
We use the auto Bolus version of loop. It's like legit, you know, like rd rd took an LSAT this morning. And overnight, I think I don't know what happened like she was going to sleep. And her blood sugar got a little low we Bolus for a snack that she didn't finish. So she has some juice, then I think she popped up and everybody was asleep and no one noticed. So the loop like smashed it back down. It took a number of hours, but she went to 180. And it got her back to like 140 By the time she woke up at six o'clock. And then we started to work on bringing it down as she woke up, but it kind of wasn't budging. And so I didn't have a lot of time. As she was going out the door. I was like look, I don't like you got to go, this thing's a time situation. So I just set it override for like, I forget, like 150% for a couple of hours. And then two hours into the test. When the override ended, her blood sugar was still like more like 110 ish. And so I just jacked her Basal up remotely from my Nightscout. And so I basically did a 20 minute Basal increase. But it like I forget what I did like five units an hour. So she'd get like a couple of units and just 20 minutes. I basically said like, you know, I mean, like I set like a little extended Bolus through the Basal feature, like I pushed more and more and everything, like I did that remotely while she was taking her SAP. That's not going to exist with commercial stuff, at least in the beginning, if ever. And just the idea of being able to say, for whatever reason today more power. Like I know, you know what I mean? I know this amount. Yeah, it works. But right now, just whatever you do magic algorithm, do it. 50% more strong, please. Thank you. And you know, that stuff isn't going to exist. But I'm having said that. I'm really excited to get on the pod five and see what I can make it do. Right, right. That's what it will be. Yeah, that's my thought

Gina 17:18
for sure. And, you know, I say an algorithm. I'm a CGM, um whatever kind that you have, is better than no algorithm. And certainly, you know, CGM always greater than no CGM, in my humble opinion. But there's, you just got to have that data coming in. I, I know people do it the other way. And I am amazed by then and truly, you know, mad respect on it. But the idea that you'd give up, you wouldn't have 288 data points a day, you'd have 10 or 20, or something. I don't I don't even know what how that all works. It overwhelmed me to talk about it. We got on CGM pretty early Dexcom. Probably not even six weeks after diagnosis. So

Scott Benner 18:05
yeah, I think before before like to put it into perspective for people who've used the CGM for a long time or have only ever used it. The before there was the CGM, my whole life felt like the two hour warmup period on the G sex, right? Like you just sort of like, I'll set a timer, I'll test here, like it. And that was if you were trying to be like cautious with blood sugars and keep them in a range. Otherwise, most people just were like, Listen, I'm going to test I'll count my carbs are Bolus and three hours now test again, if I'm high, I'll give myself more insulin. And if I'm low, I'll eat something. And that was literally how people took care of themselves. And that was a person doing a really good job taking care of themselves. Before, right, you know what I mean? So this the technology's amazing. Now, the other thing I want to say is that, I also think this stuff will well, it has the opportunity to move more quickly now. But it's going to be up to the companies and whether or not they're willing to continue to put someone in charge of fine tuning. You know what I mean? Like there's not going to throw it out and go, Okay, well, that's our algorithm. We'll see in five years when we try another one. Like that's right. That's my hope. And I have to tell you that behind the scenes everywhere that I have the ability to say something I am very forceful is the wrong word. But I'm, I make sure to tell people that that's the key. Right? Like I always say in a meeting, I always go look, I don't know who Ivan is, but someone should hire him. Right. And I don't know Ivan is by the way, but someone should hire him.

Gina 19:47
I do agree and and that did happen with pee and who really, you know, developed the Reilly link and then Katie De Simone, they all went to work for tide pool and I'm hoping that okay, and I don't know I'm not the, I'm not the guru on this stuff for sure. But you know, with Tide Pool, which is a nonprofit, driving a lot of, you know, this kind of data collection and pushing the envelope on things and moving towards the interoperative operability of all the devices where they will standardize and be able to, you know, in theory, choose your own pump, choose your own CGM in the future and then choose your own algorithm in the future. I mean, they are headed that way. I'm, I can't, I don't, I can't speak to it enough to make it a given a real, you know, perspective on it. But I do know that that is all occurring. And the conversations with the FDA have somehow opened up more through that channel. And, and I'm hoping that that is where, you know, we're all going to find the sweet spot for how we do diabetes at our own, you know, houses because everybody does it differently. And so, to me, that's, that's the end goal. And that would keep things moving faster, forward faster.

Scott Benner 21:09
Yeah, I prefer a stainless steel pan to fry my eggs. And and some people like the ones that are coated with the nonstick stuff, we should get the Peck and I actually I have somebody coming on from tide pool, I think, on my schedule, you should see my schedule, it is just, it's insane. I don't have an open recording day until January.

Gina 21:35
Wow, Dr. should feel very amazed that I got on schedule after

Scott Benner 21:40
I had to double you up to make it work. And now I'm like, I have this like, high minded idea that I'm going to open up my, my schedule real quick and find the person's name. And now I realized that was stupid, like, I'm looking at all these names. Oh, my God. But yeah, I have somebody coming on. To talk about it at some point, I just think I know, you have to have like kind of a long view of this stuff, which sucks if you've got loop, because you know, the immediacy of a small group of dedicated people making a fix or a change. You know, like, they'll they'll I forget what what a good example is, but there was a problem was something and like four days later, they have it figured out and then they fix it and they upload it and it's done. You're just like, wow, that was cool. You know what I mean? Whereas when I write to a company, it's like, alright, we found a problem. We know, we had a meeting,

Gina 22:38
figured out what the problem was another meeting in a month, we'll,

Scott Benner 22:41
we'll get together again and see how this went. And then later, we'll probably test it. And if that works great, and then we'll make double extra double shore before we go to the FDA. And then six months after they get it there'll be like that fixes, okay. And then you know, that's just how the world works. So for people who are accustomed to lube, it's it's, you know, saying you have to have a long view of it is probably frustrating. But there's a bigger picture, right? And the bigger picture is, like no lie loopholes. Ardens a one C and the fives like no problem, I used to put a lot of work into making that happen. And now it's much less work, especially overnight during the day, still not so there's still stuff to do. But but the point is, is that it's very customizable. And I can in six seconds, say Oh, Arden's getting your period, turn this, this way, turn that that way, and make this target this and boom, we're right back at it again. It's like not a problem. Right? I am nervous to see how the other ones work. Because you got to think they're not going to be as customizable. Although, you know, what I always pitched when I'm talking to Omnipod. I always tell them about this is gonna sound strange for a minute, but Adobe Elements is okay. Is it just a, you know, it's a thing you can manipulate pictures with and stuff like that, right? And when you open it, there are tabs across the top, and I forget exactly what they say. But it's basically beginner, intermediate, and Pro. And right. And when you click on the tabs, you get more function. And I'm like, That's what an algorithm should have. And you can complete trainings online, and when you complete the training online, then it unlocks the next tab. Like you know what I mean, and then that way, yeah, he has an option to do it. I think that's an amazing idea. Nobody listens to me, but

Gina 24:38
Well, I do know and I know even less about the the Android APS system than I do about loop. And I've never attempted to use it all but I believe that in that space, the end there's a lot of European and the kind of international crowd that is more that uses that algorithm and that that technology base. And I really am speaking out of my zone here completely, but I believe that they have tests and quizzes and things along the way they make you sort of follow a path. And I'm probably underselling that or saying it all wrong, but I think that there is some of that, in that space. And, and I think that's great. Because you do have to use loop. Or, you know, these algorithms, you need to learn them, and which is why I was not content to sit and wait until someone came out with one.

Scott Benner 25:30
Yeah, if you're, listen, if you're listening, right now, if you're waiting for your doctor to tell you that, yeah, that's not gonna happen. So, you know, hey, Doctor, can you tell me, you know, I want to set my insulin sensitivity and my Basal rates, just so I want to, you know, I just want to be no lower than 70. If I can help, and the doctors gonna be like, 70. And then you know, that'll be the end of it. And you'll, you'll be wherever they put you. And if you're, if they get those settings wrong, then the algorithms not going to work at all. Like when the ID algorithm settings are wrong. It's just as bad as you doing it manually, not knowing how to Pre-Bolus and misunderstanding, food impacts. You just you'll rollercoaster on, if this totally, yeah. It's not magic.

Gina 26:16
Yeah. No. And you have to like we have a conversation with our Endo, and the, you know, nurse, the diabetes educator in our office, which rotates I ended up talking to kind of a different diabetes educator pretty often. And every time we have a debate over his ISF setting, because in in their calculations, it should be much lower, the number should be smaller than what we use. And it's because you know, when you're using a manual pump, or you're doing MBI, you're not factoring in how closely loop is recalculating, recalculating, every five minutes, and the duration of insulin. I think they said it much shorter with a pump, like three hours or something. And you know, we're at lupus six, right? Yeah. So yeah, they, there's a learning, there's learning for everybody all along the way. And as these systems do come online, I guess they'll be gathering their data as well.

Scott Benner 27:21
I'm just trying to say that it is 2021. And if you go into most endocrinologists office and ask them how to extend a Bolus for pizza, they're gonna be like, I don't know. Right? You're asking them to like learn an algorithm, Me thinks that's not going to go so well. And then we get into the situation where the pump companies are not doctors. And not only are they not doctors, they're not allowed to give you advice about how to use your insulin. Like they're just there. They're not the FDA does not let them say that. So you're going to get this tool again. And I always I used to say, it's like you give somebody a bazooka, and you teach them how to fly like SWAT flies with it, you know, the mean? Like, like, does a lot more than this? Oh, this is what I'm allowed to say it does. You know, and so it can't and that's nobody's fault. It's, it's again, that's the FDA and the company stay out of it. So then where do you get your training? Well, the company's point to the doctors, well, I just told you, your doctor doesn't understand that, you know, your blood sugar is high, because your Basal is low. So good luck. You know, like I say something on this podcast, it is so common sense to me, which is if your Basal is not strong enough, your blood sugars will be high more frequently, causing you to correct out of balance with where the carbs are, which will eventually lead you to a low, that isn't common sense thing that I would say in court, if somebody asked me to write, I'd raise my right hand, put me in three Bibles and say that that is true, except you show that graph to a doctor and they'll go, oh, look, you're getting low here, here. And here. We should turn your Basal down more or less Basal, right, because you're getting lower, I saw low, so less, instead of seeing, because there's not enough Basal, your bolusing in crazy places and making those later. And that's a really basic and easy concept. And I figured it out myself. And you met me, Gina, I'm in it. Okay, so I figured it out. You can't get your doctor to figure it out. But yet, we're gonna hand them an algorithm and ask him how to fine tune it. Not not not gonna go well. So then what's the answer? Because community can't be the answer either. Because you see what happens. It burns out. Like people try really hard and then there's these the great places and then people come in to get help they get their help. And they take from it, which is what they're supposed to do. But then most of them leave. And the people who are left behind are like, well, this isn't my job. I can't do this forever. You know, so that there has to be a mechanism in place. I hope tide pool does it. Yeah, where where you can just teach, teach, teach. You know what I mean? Yes, I don't know what the Yeah,

Gina 30:00
cuz what's out there is amazing loop and learn and the people that are putting all that together and all the time and effort that went into that goes into loops group CGM in the cloud. I'm sure I'm missing seeing, and I can't even get into all the names of everybody that's so amazing.

Scott Benner 30:19
million great people doing great stuff, but it's not their job. And so, you know, listen, if you want to know why the podcast is good, if you think it's good, it's because it's my job. And so I can, while you're walking around thinking about, like, your job, I'm thinking about other ways to tell people about glycemic load and index, it aren't as boring. And so that's just what I get to do. And so when you have this coming through a Facebook group, at some point, people are gonna get like, Wow, I can't do this anymore. They'll get burned out, you know? Yes, I'm not allowed to get burned out because I sold ads. And if you don't hear you burn out my voice, because this is my job. You know? Yes, that's gonna be really interesting. I am, I am super excited to put my hands on on the pod five again, because I think I might learn something about it. I'm also excited that Omnipod saw from the beginning to get involved with Tide Pool, which I think they were like the first ones, right? They were like, one day, we're gonna put out an algorithm. And if you want to use our algorithm, you can and if you want to use tide pools algorithm, you'll be able to do that too. Like that. Yeah, that was and that's still in the works. As far as I understand.

Gina 31:31
I meet you, again, I'm pretty far down on the totem pole of getting the information. But yes, I understand that to be true. And, and

Scott Benner 31:41
Geeta, no one. Just so you know, what's that? I said, No one tells me, I'm not on any totem pole. I'm not I'm not at all on a totem pole anywhere. I don't even think some of the loo people even like me, but I don't know what to do about that. You know what I mean? So it's just, it's, they probably hate you for telling me about loop, I probably wouldn't know about it, it wasn't for you. This is all your fault here. Finally, we know. Finally, we're getting some answers about who to blame.

Gina 32:16
I mean, it definitely has probably brought some people into the space that would not have wound up there. But I am okay with that. Because I just, I look around, and I read, you know, forums, I started into that, you know, I did a deep dive when Carter was first diagnosed and found all these groups and found all this information. And quickly gravitated, you know, in one direction, because there were so many people who just, you know, were very, very helpless in a lot of ways. And I was like, Oh, I, I need more information than this. I can't do this for the rest of his life, because he was not even seven when he was diagnosed. You know, I need a more sustainable path. And so quickly found the more proactive groups and just kind of plunked my chips up over there.

Scott Benner 33:09
Where do you think you'd be personally if, like the algorithm never existed.

Gina 33:16
I mean, I don't even want to know. You know, because it used to get him in that that we didn't wait very long he was diagnosed, we got CGM, which really shows you, you know, whether you're on it or not on it, it shows you where you are. And so then did traditional pumping and found those places found us in those, you know, the highs, the lows, etc. And just the stress of that, it was a lot I took it on very personally. And, you know, watching those Highs climb at night, and the things that used to happen back in the beginning, it was psychologically not a good place for me to be. So I don't know how people do it. And that's why I wanted to be able to encourage people to not wait until a system comes out. You know, the whole, the whole hashtag, we're not waiting, appealed to me on so many levels. Like I've got to be doing something more. We this will not you know, this will not sustain. So I found I found the podcast. In addition to you know, I found the podcast and started listening that before we were looping it this was all sort of going at the same time. So I was not content to wait until you know, the next thing. And look, it's been full Carter's been diagnosed for years. We've been looping over three of those years. And we're still waiting on, you know, some of the algorithms to come to come Yeah, it takes a mark that got

Scott Benner 34:51
you got this far off of this and well, don't you? I shouldn't say Don't you think but I think that you said earlier you know, what do people do? I don't know what people do. I think what they Do as they give up, or it just becomes too overwhelming. I just got done interviewing someone whose kid was diagnosed when they were two, and by the time they were three, they, they were getting divorced. And then they lost a couple years in there. And you know, they won't see one up 789, you know, and it's like, you kind of don't even notice that happening. It just, it gets away from you, there's a lot going diabetes a full time job. And then you know, your mom in charge of it for a little kid. And then I think she had another kid, and then you know, she's got life issues, and all this is going on, something's got to give somewhere. And you know, like, what can give to that? You know, is it is it easier for your blood sugar to be 160 all day, or me not to have a job? Well, I have to have a job, we won't have insulin like so. Okay, so you don't I mean, you start making those bargains. And I think, I think that's what happens for most people, these algorithms, you know, so we're sitting around right now talking about this thing, that, you know, you have all this control over, and you get this fine control. And it's amazing, and it should definitely exist for everybody, you know, but then you start asking yourself, Could everybody really use it? And this is where Yeah, I know, good, good. I'm sorry.

Gina 36:18
Well, can they use it? And and I think that people can learn that, but then also, you know, if does it fit into their economic lifestyle? Right, um, you know, how do they afford it? Those kinds of things all come into play as well. But also, yes. How do you teach this? I mean, I come from a healthcare background. And so that helps me, I guess, maybe feel more competent, about tinkering and trying things. And, you know, I knew what a pancreas was some

Scott Benner 36:52
idea of what's going on? Well, so. So I mean, I'm gonna say on the pod five, you know, because that's what I'm going to be like using. But you take that, right, just try to imagine, I don't know how many users loop has, right, like actual users? I would, I would venture to guess that nobody knows. They know how many apps have been downloaded maybe or something like that. But I don't know, they know how many people are actually using it. But is it fair to say it's fewer than 10,000?

Gina 37:22
I'm gonna guess probably the last time I looked at, yeah, how many times the code had been downloaded and GitHub? Yeah, it was somewhere around there. But you're right. There's no real way to know. Right.

Scott Benner 37:37
And so it let's just forget first, let's say it, everyone who downloaded it is using it right. Right. Now let's Google worldwide. Type one. diabetes.

Gina 37:50
It's a fraction one

Scott Benner 37:51
e 21. Yeah. So a lot of people have diabetes? Yes, a lot. A lot. A lot of people I think they say like, it's like 460 million people have diabetes. In general, type one. diabetes, of course, is a fraction of that. And now, but what if I think the last number I heard was like 1.8 million, maybe? Right for type one, and you're telling me 10,000 of them have like the loop app on their phone? And so percentage wise, that's nobody, right? Like if I said to you, if I said to you, Gina, listen, here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna start a television show. And now there's 1.8 million people who have TVs. We need a big piece of those. Who are we're going to go out of business. And then you said to me, oh, but Scott, we have 10,000 I go, Oh, dammit, Gina, we have, we have to cancel a TV show. So it's just not a large amount of people. Now those other 1.8 million, by the way, pump use is not that widespread, far fewer people pump than you would think of that number.

Gina 39:01
Exactly. Especially when you get to international because so many of them are not. I mean, some countries this stuff just doesn't even exist. They just don't have access to it at all.

Scott Benner 39:11
I just sent a note from a listener in Romania, and they asked me to send it to Dexcom and Omnipod asking them to bring their stuff to Romania. And so like that, so but but Okay, now we're down to the people. A lot of people don't pump. Now you're down to like cost, right? So CGM are expensive, more expensive than not having a CGM pumps might cost more money or maybe your I don't know, maybe your insurance that covered this. And now we're down to the people who can afford it, who are insured who are inclined. And those people still have wack as a one sees and don't know what they're doing, right. Right now you're slapping on the pod five on them. And if you tell me that that takes their a one seat down into a stable place, that's magic. That's a magic rose people Yeah.

Gina 40:00
What did I read? Get it someone had put a statistic online just recently. And I do, I'm in a couple groups, so I kind of dive in and out of occasionally. And I think that, you know, the pediatric endocrinologist want kids under like, 7.5. That's their goal. And that only like 17% of kids are meeting the goal of being under 7.5. Yes. 17%.

Scott Benner 40:29
And I don't know, it's yeah, do you know, I don't know the Omni pod five numbers yet. But, I mean, I got to think the goal a one sees under 7.5, at least. And so right, if you're telling me that you could just slap this thing on those people, and they'd have that kind of improvement? Well, then hell, then you've said the greatest thing that's ever been said around type one diabetes management. Except true, except for you. And me and his other handful of 1000s of people who have seen Looper like, huh, hold on a second. I like to be able to turn Arden's Basal up while she's taking your essay to, you know, that it seems like somebody's taking something from you.

Gina 41:10
That's true. Yeah, we are a subset. And I'm not even in I mean, the subsets kind of vary, and there are people who are even more dialed in than I am, I like to use loop as like, my, not my autopilot. But as my cruise control a lot of the time, and I don't, I don't have our my son, I should say, doesn't always have a pristine line, and all these things, but it keeps us in the zone that keeps us in the lower, you know, the lower sixes, a one see, and and that allows me to, like, you know, take my eyes off the road. Occasionally,

Scott Benner 41:49
like when you hear him talking about warping and nudging, like people who don't have algorithms, that's what that does really, that bumping and nudging, right keeps you in a space that's manageable, where you're not so far out of whack that you're suddenly like, I don't know, how much insulin do you think will break up? 350? You know, like, you don't get that situation, you don't get into situations where you're like, I've been eating for an hour and a half and the 60 won't move like that doesn't really happen with the algorithm. Right? That's not to say that it couldn't, but in general, well set up, etc, etc. You don't see that as much as you would without it. But right, so I'm super excited. Like, I hope on the pod five works great for Arden for a number of reasons, a algorithm printed right on the circuit board, no need for any kind of a link thing. Yes. You know, like those things comes from the company. If it breaks, I know who to call, you know what I mean? Like, if when when loop goes bad, what I do yell at the Internet, you know, so.

Gina 42:46
Right, right? I don't know. Yeah, for the general population, I mean, it is going to be and I expect even people like I said, to move off of loop DIY loop into whatever, for sure. Because it is it's just less to carry around, it's going to be and compared to maybe what they had done in the past. You know, there I we saw people do that with even tandem, and kind of people pretty, you know, pretty deeply into the group went ahead and moved off into control IQ. And and they're happy, and it's working. And I totally applaud that whole. That whole effort. And yeah, like what you got to do what works for you, for sure. I agree.

Scott Benner 43:27
And also, yeah, enough for nothing. And I know there are people who wouldn't be bothered by this at all, but I'm not really comfortable having to send my daughter to college with a firm understanding of Xcode. So that she can build an app and load it on her phone. That's right, that's not, that's not in our life that's not conducive to harmony that makes it sound like I'm gonna have to get on a plane one day, fly to a school and do something. And when I get there, I'm still gonna have to call you to figure out how to do it, you know what I mean? And so I've just, I that level of complexity, and intricacy I'm not comfortable with, you know, the programming and the making the app and all that stuff like Arden needs a new phone so badly. And I guarantee you that the only reason we haven't done it is because I don't want to rebuild and I pretty sure I would just open Xcode, plug the phone in and like install it. I don't even think it would be hard. And I It scares me to think about doing it.

Gina 44:32
Yeah, we just recently Carter, Carter exploded phone. I don't even know what he did to the phone. He's He's 10 and a half and he's outside and running constantly and live water and all those things. I

Scott Benner 44:45
mean, my God, you're almost, you know, they mean might as well be 1812 Are you are you I don't even know it's such a nice place to be in there. But yes, thank you.

Gina 44:56
Thank you. Thank you. We need it. We need a plug there. In the middle of The map for sure, but we have large bodies of water and he not not an ocean, we're nowhere near an ocean. But he definitely manages to get all of this tech wet frequently, which has ruined a lot of things. And I'm just this past week, I had to build on a new phone like the send off, get a refurbished replacement. And, yeah, it caused a little sweat around the back of my neck. There's no doubt about it. It was like, Oh, God,

Scott Benner 45:24
I went away. I went away for a week, a couple weeks ago. And Kelly goes, she pulls me aside, she says, hey, if this thing stops working, what do I do? And I said, rip the pot off, pull her PDM out, put the batteries back in it, yeah, only I'll give you a Basal program to plug into it, you can go back to the way I used to do it. Because I write for I wouldn't know the first thing to tell her about how to handle it. And

Gina 45:47
it's true. And you have to have a backup plan, no matter where you are, you know, whatever way you're managing your diabetes, you've got to have a plan that includes putting insulin into a body somehow. So you know, I so I was away from Carter when the phone died. And I was like, okay, and I could start getting phone calls about it. And I'm like, okay, hold on, guys, don't panic, you've got this going on, we've got this is the backup, we've got this here, you know, because it is a complicated thing to kind of maintain. But we also have the backup plan, there's, you know, there's a long acting pen available there are you know, there's a vial of insulin, there are needles around. If we had to go back to old school, and finger sticks, we can do that. And we can do it rather quickly. And I think you always have to, you know, that has always be in your backup pocket in your back pocket. But the idea that you know, yeah, and we have a PDM that we literally have never used it's never even had batteries in it. But I keep track of or, you know, our settings are I have those kind of, well, they're really distorted Nightscout, where you can go back in and look at, you know, previous profiles. So you can so you can too, so I can't, I can't. But yeah, I don't care if it's even just scribbled on a piece of paper in your back pocket. You know, those things. Everybody has to have that no matter what you're doing. Yeah, you gotta have that backup plan. And it's not something that takes you six months of you know, all this, you know, like, oh, you should do this before you start pumping. Or you should do this before you have CGM. So you get a feel for it. You know, I'm not for bad either. I think that you teach people to use what they're going to use most common. And you make them aware of the fact that you know, in the event of an emergency, this is what you do. It's like getting on an airplane. Right? They they show you where the life.

Scott Benner 47:51
I'm not a fan of planning for failure. So, right, yeah, I'm gonna plan for success. And if something goes wrong, I'll adjust but I'm not gonna sit around understanding. You know, I don't know. Like, I just thought, right. I don't care. I wouldn't care if Arden was diagnosed today. I'd want her to have an algorithm today. And that old why that old ass argument about like, well, you need to understand how I don't even care. I would I don't think that's true. And I don't care. And if, if the world blew up, and there was no technology, and we had to go to a short, you know, a short and a long acting insulin and inject everything, I'd figure it out. But I don't need a year figuring it out just to give it away. Hope you know what I mean? Like it doesn't. I don't buy into that stuff. Like you need diabetes without a CGM. You try understanding diabetes without a CGM, that CGM is the only way to understand it, you know. So

Gina 48:45
I do think it is, you know, one of the many ways and then that's what I try to tell new families is because of course, anyone that knows someone whose child gets diagnosed, that I know, you know, they owe you got to talk to, you know, Gina, and so I tried to just and it's also overwhelming for them in the beginning. But I tried to just get that information in there, like, find your online community. And you know, podcasts of course, Juicebox Podcast, I don't start with, you know, going in hard on the rest of it. But if they can get to a CGM in the beginning Dexcom especially, then they're going to get that information right away, and it's going to help them fast forward through the learning curve, as opposed to the spot checking. That just leaves you feeling lost, confused, and lost.

Scott Benner 49:33
This is really come Gina, right. And the electricity grid goes down or I don't know. Russia hacks our grid or I don't know what's gonna happen. Let's be honest, it's harsh to say Arden's the first. Get any mean she's gone. Like Amy she knows that I know. We all know that this minute refrigeration is gone. We're on a countdown, right? We're on Yeah. So so I won't spend the last days of my life thinking I really do. I wish I understood MDI better than I do. Now, because we're running from zombies. It doesn't matter. It just is. So this is the world we live in. I'm planning for this world, like you don't mean like, I really would like to get an electric car one day, I don't, I wouldn't buy it and think to myself, Well, I hope electricity doesn't go away. Well, if it does, we have bigger problems than that I write electric car. The problem, we're all gonna murder each other in the street inside of a week and a half. Okay, that's the bigger problem. I mean, no one listening to this hasn't thought. If everything got sideways, how quickly could I get to the CVS break in and Robert and take all the insulin, we've all wondered how quickly we could get that accomplished. So great. So whatever your pharmacy is called, don't don't. Don't send me a note telling me about your Walgreens or whatever, just I don't care. We all had that. But that's not the plan for you don't plan for that. If you're planning for I think you're a prepper. And then I think you've got food and bones. And that's, that's got a lot of carbs. So you're in trouble one way or the other?

Gina 51:12
I don't exactly know, but I just I want people to know, that's right. You'd like you, you have to live today. And today, these things are available, and they're amazing. And you will be not waiting part like well, this will eventually be available. Like, you know, waiting five years for the Cure kind of thing. Like the curious not coming. I'm gonna assume right now, you know, until I have something in my hands, like, I am gonna use what's available right now. Yeah. And that, you know, that included loops. So

Scott Benner 51:43
you got to think is a little weird. But in comparison to progress, our lives are pretty short. So right, you can't give away a 10th of your life to waiting for something. Like, you know what I mean? Like, you're a great example, you figured out how to use loops, you've got all these years under Carter's belt of this, you know, you know good control and, and, and health and, you know, a confidence and an idea that it can be done like all that exists that whatever, you know, anxiety and stress, it's lifted off your life sleep, freakin sleep alone. It's amazing. Right? Yeah. And then something else is going to happen on the pod file to come out. And then if they don't, you know, and then and tandems, oh geez, alright, well, we'll get better at two and then Medtronic. Like, I'm tired of that guy on the podcast and our stuff is crap. And then they'll fix their thing. And then like, you know, and everybody's gonna keep pushing. And, and you're gonna get somewhere in a handful of years, you cannot imagine right now. And if you think that's, if you think that's BS, you have to really I'm going to tell you right now, my daughter's had diabetes. Since she was two she's about to turn 17. My rough math tells me that's 15 years. So 15 years ago, I had a meter that looked like it fell out of a bubblegum machine, a handful of needles and a vial of insulin. And now and a cell phone. What a cell phone was a thing that was in a bag on a cord that plugged into your cigarette lighter in your car, and your car doesn't have a cigarette lighter anymore. Okay. Now on my daughter's cell phone, which by the way, is a pocket computer more powerful than the first computer that launched us to the moon in the 60s. Okay, there's a an app with an algorithm in it. That is looking at our blood sugar going. Point three, five an hour point, one an hour, one an hour. 1.2 point 8.71. Take it all away, give it back. Oh, Bolus point five. It's doing that it's magic. Okay, like it's a man. It's amazing. And, and I don't know that I could have imagined that maybe even six, seven years ago. I don't think I could have imagined that. So what's gonna happen when she's 25? You know what I mean? Right? It's common.

Gina 54:02
Yeah, I'm, I'm counting on that, that the technology is going to continue to, it seems like all technology like, you know, we're speeding forward. It's all you know, what happened in the last 50 years? We've eclipsed in whatever five years or something and then so I'm counting on that occurring in the diabetes space as well.

Scott Benner 54:24
Let me do some reading. Give me a second here. Um, I know people from AMI pilots that my podcast and they damn well should I saw a lot that's not the point. All right, listen. Find the Ivan's find the I hire the Ivan's get the people I that should be a hashtag find the Ivan's I don't even know. You know, he's probably a gun runner in his spare time and I'm like hey hire I don't know him. Okay. Well, what you imagined if he was just a gun running type one who wanted to go down. She's right now like, like going across the desert hoping not to get caught. Hot by the IMF, which I think isn't a real thing. But that's the thing. Tom Cruise works for mission and but not the point. The point is, find people like that. And you hire them and show them your algorithm and say to them, Hey, make this better. And then when you're done making it better, take a vacation, and then come back and make it better again, like keep doing the right for us. You should be hiring those people. That's all.

Gina 55:24
CO signing on this 100% Thank

Scott Benner 55:26
you. I don't know who he is yet. Maybe it's somebody else. But hire those people. Put yourself in a position where you can stand up in front of people diabetes, hold up your your pump and say, this thing is going to hold your agency in the fives. Like if you could say that to people, that would be magical. Like do that, you know, anyway, try for that. That's all I have. I can't I can't be common sense for everybody. Jean. It's tiring. Okay. You just heard my brain. I took a nice man who's helped with Lupe, who I've never met before in my life. I turned him into an international spy I put him in the desert. Tom Cruise that all happened in 20 seconds. My brain is not built for like building algorithms, but it is built for saying stupid crap, and that I'm really good at that. So

Gina 56:11
right? I won't even say his name because I'm pretty sure it's probably pronounced with all different accents. And it could be Yvonne I

Scott Benner 56:20
mispronounce to him. Are you telling me I'm missing? I could be mispronouncing IV A N.

Gina 56:28
I think maybe you could be. I mean, this is incredible. No, no, that's the guy from Philly. mispronouncing an international name. Yeah, I don't know.

Scott Benner 56:39
I have I have Russian listeners. I'm assuming that's where this guy's from. That's got to be right, doesn't it?

Gina 56:47
Ask them Don't ask me. I'm gonna midwest.

Scott Benner 56:50
I heard that's where he was from. I mean, I can be applied to I Ivan's hyphens a woman named Yvonne who lives in Sarasota. I bet she's right. I just been wrong about all this.

Gina 57:03
Someone's gonna let you know. I hope so. I

Scott Benner 57:05
you know, for sure. Ivan Reitman made Ghostbusters. And he says his name Ivan. So I was thinking. I don't know. It doesn't matter. It's a it's a random name that I've literally heard out loud. Like, and I only know it because Kenny said to me one day, do you want to use Pete's auto Bolus, or Ivan's auto Bolus? And I was like, Alright, I don't know. Let's try it. I just pointed to the one that was closest to my finger. I didn't know what I was doing. It and but seriously, there are people out there. It's crazy that they don't work for the companies who are making it's insane. Right, you know? So yes, go find them. That's all I got. I know it's been an hour. But why are you on the podcast that I make you come on? Or did you want to come on? I can't remember.

Gina 57:53
We just sort of on one of our text threads. It was like, you're coming up on, I believe two years. blooping. But I think I said it's been two years since I double dog dared you to try this. And you said maybe you should come on. And I was like, yeah, it seems like it might be time. So

Scott Benner 58:12
let me let me thank you. So first of all, I would have not done it without you saying it like you specifically. So keep that in mind. This is all free. Things were going so well for Arden back then using the stuff that people hear in the Pro Tip series all the time that I never would have even thought like like where's better in this Ardens? A one season the fives it's stable. Like mid fives. Sometimes it's lower fives sometimes it's five, seven, but it's it's here. She eats whatever she wants. What what could be better than this? Well, the answer to what could be better than this is sleeping. Sleeping could have been better. I'm sleeping is really cool. And I missed sleeping and I don't listen anymore. You may have saved my life. And I don't know that it happened. Now on top of that, when you said it, I will be 100% Honest, what I thought was everything's gonna go algorithms next couple of years. It would be smart for me as the person running the podcast if I understood this stuff before it happened. Like I just thought it would be a bad idea. One day One people were like, here's an algorithm. I was like, what's that? Like? So I thought that was my closest ability to to learn about it. And it's become a staple in our lives. And it helps people on the podcast all the time. I get great feedback about the loop episodes that we've done, that really help people get their loops currently. And I've learned more about diabetes because of loop. I learned more about diabetes because of a lot of things that happen on the podcast. But just having Nightscout open and watching it manipulate Ardens Basal took my understanding of diabetes to a completely different level. So just

Gina 1:00:01
It just shows you the you see it, it's happening in real time in front of your eyes, instead of you trying to piece all this back together on the high on the back end, and be like, Oh, maybe that caused this or maybe that caught, you know, so I think even if you had to switch back to, you know, MDI and finger sticks, I still, I think people would be wiser because they had seen it would have seen the data in the past, and so they could make better judgments.

Scott Benner 1:00:31
100%. That's true, I 100% believe, Yeah, true. The idea that at 11am, the algorithm has a pretty good idea that you're going to be low in an hour. And it starts taking Basal away, but not just like, it doesn't just rip it away. It takes it away thoughtfully, so that you drift down, you don't like crash and catch, like, it's it's so gentle. Like how it works. Like when I look at artists, three hour Dexcom lines, they're always gentle, even if she gets a spike, they're gentle spikes. Even if she's low, it's a gentle low Arden's blood sugar does not hop straight up or hop straight down. And, but again, like there's more to it than just seeing like saying to somebody, like, Oh, I saw the data, so it makes more sense. And I know that when people are like data, but data data, please leave me alone. And so, but but, but just watching it happen, makes you feel like 100%, right, you put me back on just the pump. And the bumping and nudging I used to do I would I would instantly be better at it now. And one of the things that's taught me is like, we talked about crush it and catch it, like, you know, if a blood sugar gets really high, like you want to start over again, I can, I can look at the line on the Dexcom during a fall, like if I create a fall on purpose. And I know I'm gonna have to catch it with glucose, I can see on the line, it's not the number and it's not the arrow, it's the actual pitch of the line. I am like, ooh, put in the glucose right here, or put the loop back on. Like, sometimes I'll shut the loop off. And then I'm like right now right now, it's when we turn the loop back on, and it just boom catches it. Or sometimes you turn the loop off, meaning you now have Basal insulin covered in the loop has no ability to take it away or give it back and you're in a freefall. And if you don't know if it's ever happened to you in a freefall, turn the loop back on the loop shuts off the Basal, and the freefall stops in minutes. It's amazing. 100% amazing. It means that that the impact of the insulin, when it's being used in an incredibly thoughtful way, every minute of the day, it is more reactive than we think it is. Does that mean Exactly?

Gina 1:02:52
Yeah. Yeah. Because conventional teaching is that you make Basal adjustments for what you want to see three hours from now. Some thing like that, I've never paid any attention to it, because of course, we were doing this so quickly. But they you'll hear people say that like well, you can't use Basal as brakes. And I'm like, well, Luke can work very effectively that

Scott Benner 1:03:16
way. So now a regular person who's not using this algorithm right there, right. I think what what gets missed, I think what I'm learning is what gets missed is that most people even who are having success are largely having success through mistakes, they don't realize their mistakes. They're like, like their Basal is like, way too heavy, but they barely Bolus anything for a meal, or their Basal is way too light. But they their meal ratio is way heavier than it actually should be like there's a middle ground in there where they're Basal should be in their meal ratios should be but one's heavier ones lighter. They're making mistakes and making up for them somewhere else. But you don't realize that in another scenario, like the one I just described, you're too heavy Basal insulin has, has impacts across the timeline of your day. But if you but if Arden's Basal insulin said at one unit an hour, but for two hours, it was point eight for a half an hour, it was point four for another hour, it was 1.2. Like, then the insulin, it's the pinnacle of timing and amount, it's the right amount of insulin at the right time, 24 hours a day. And that takes a lot of the a lot of the variables around insulin. So yeah, everybody should have it if they can afford it, and they can figure it out. And yet I know that's not going to happen. So hopefully these commercial ones are going to spread like wildfire and help people that's my hope, at least I agree. And then I'm gonna learn how to use it and then we'll do episodes about that. And that's right, I gotta keep this podcast going.

Gina 1:04:49
I think I think you have an unending amount of information. And it's it's helped us so much even with looping. There's still so many things that You still need to think about, especially with growing kids, puberty, all that stuff that we're starting to look at, and it does some crazy stuff to numbers. Yeah. And it's just amazing how quickly he can need more insulin suddenly. And I don't think I would know those kinds of things. As quickly as I know, as I've learned them without having been, you know, a podcast listener all this time. It's so applicable no matter what you're doing, however, you're delivering your insulin that I, I just recommend it to everyone, I think.

Scott Benner 1:05:37
Thank you. Just amazing. I wanted to say that seriously. And then I just giggled over myself out of like, I don't know what

Gina 1:05:47
like, but that's exactly what I say when I checked all these moms that are new onset. I'm like, it will help you fast forward through the learning curve. Yeah. Oh, it really does. So listen.

Scott Benner 1:05:58
And you know, some people still can't I, the other day, I had it in my head. I was like, oh, I want to, I want to interview somebody who loves the Facebook page for the podcast. But it's never heard the podcast. And so I put up you know, I put up a post like that was like, Hey, if you love this, this group that you're in right now, by the way, it's called Juicebox Podcast, type one diabetes on Facebook. No, go join it. It's a really great Facebook page for diabetes. If you love this page, and you've never heard the podcast, I'd like to have you on the show. And way too many people answered me. I was like, I've ever heard the podcast, people are like, what podcast? Like, are you? Okay? But, but what I heard back most frequently from people was, I want to listen, I don't have the time. And the way I answered them, or I would answer anybody that says that to me, would be Look, listen to the defining diabetes episodes, there may be four or five minutes long each, there's 40 of them, there's a couple hours, and then go listen to the pro tips. There's maybe 20 hours of those. Now, okay, that might be 20 or 30 hours of your life. But what you'll get back after that is way more in time and, and confidence and, you know, alleviating fear, like what I want to say to them is, I know you think you don't have enough time to listen, what I'm telling you is you don't have enough time not to listen. Exactly. And that's a hard thing to make people understand, I think.

Gina 1:07:33
But I agree. But they Yeah, it just it really has truly helped us even just from the psychological standpoint, the sense of hearing someone else, you know, share their story, the emotional impact that had on me early on, the psychological impact of not of not feeling alone, not feeling ashamed that I'm doing it wrong. It has helped me just come at this from a much more non judgmental standpoint of like, okay, he is high right now, he needs more insulin. And that be like, What did I do wrong? What did he eat? Did you sneak food? I don't even want to be in that headspace. And the podcast has definitely helped us all that to hearing just the stories are different. But there, there's that thread that just runs through so many of them. And you you're instantly human without ever having met anyone. feel that sense of community. And it's super important.

Scott Benner 1:08:32
I agree. And I am. I'm touched that it. It strikes you that way. I think that's really wonderful. I will 100% admit that the podcast does more than I anticipated. It was not my some of this stuff is not on purpose. But I after I've seen it, I've definitely leaned into it. You know, I've definitely been able to see like, wow, this is something I didn't realize people needed to know. But it's super important. Like the define, I think, when people ask me like, what the best part of the podcast is like, if you're newly diagnosed, it's defining diabetes. Like you need to listen to those because it's all the words and the ideas that people are throwing around, you're like, I do not know what any of this means. So you can't effectively use a screwdriver if you don't know what a screwdriver is. So let somebody explain to you what it is. And then you know, Jenny and I'll have a fun couple of minutes where we'll show you where it would fit into your life. And then you think okay, now that's a tool I understand. Now. Once you have that, I think the pro tips are next to get like a deep dive into like management. But those defining episodes are really to me. I'm very, very proud of them. As a matter of fact, I'm working very hard right now on doing something else with them that I think will help people. Oh, I'm not gonna say on here, because well, Gina, some people listen to this podcast to steal my ideas. And so this is not going to be one of them there. You're not taking this idea from me you scumbags come up with your own idea. When talking directly, you know who you are. Eat it. Okay, that's it. Um, but But yeah, but I'll tell you when we're done recording, but I'm doing something with that, because I think there's I think there's so valuable.

Gina 1:10:17
Definitely, yeah. So no matter themes are they'll never have your delivery. So

Scott Benner 1:10:24
that to you can't steal me. Is that what you're saying? That's what I'm saying the glue that holds this bullshit together. That's 100%, right? No, I, well, listen, let me be 100% honest, I've never heard any of those people. And so I couldn't tell you if they're good at it or not. And so that that I want to be completely fair to them. They might be amazing at it. But there are it's not. It's not everybody. But there are people who wait for me to say something and then run out and try to do it before I get it done. So I've learned not to say things ahead of time. That's all. Yeah, that's all. Is there anything that we haven't talked about that you wished we would have talked about?

Gina 1:11:06
Um, no, I think I just encourage people to, you can encourage them to be bold with insulin, I just want them to be bold with trying new things and not waiting. We are not waiting. And that that can mean a lot of things to a lot of people. But just keep, keep trying something new, because that's what helped us the most.

Scott Benner 1:11:32
Because you do not want to look up 10 years from now and think, Oh, I didn't realize everyone was doing it like this. And I'm like this, like you don't change for the sake of changing. But when something makes sense. You should take a look at it. And algorithms makes sense. So that's pretty much it. I mean, if you've got a CGM already, like if you're on Omni pod dash and Dexcom right now, I mean, to me, it's a no brainer to try on the pod five when it's available. Agreed. All right. Well, hold on a second. I'll tell you my idea when no one's listening. Alright. Alright, nosy people, I

Gina 1:12:09
like to be in the know. Oh, who doesn't?

Scott Benner 1:12:12
Ready. I'll just start telling you right now what I'm gonna do with the define. I just restarted the recording because I forgot to ask you something. Alright, so you're, again, I've told you know what I'm gonna do with the show. And now we're back. When I was in Kansas City, yes, I It was a busy day for me. I was in and out of a lot of places. And then I went back to the hotel and the lovely people that had me out. told me they wanted to take me out for barbecue. And they took me to a place where I've told the story on the podcast before I thought I was going to die. It was like in an alley. It felt like next to a train track and everything smelled like cow manure. But the barbecue was amazing. Where was I?

Gina 1:13:01
Do you so? If you were all the way downtown Did you drive

Scott Benner 1:13:06
quite a ways? Not too far. We weren't.

Gina 1:13:09
We weren't around the county. I'm Joe's barbecue.

Scott Benner 1:13:14
It was like it was in like a square stucco nondescript building with a ramp on the side of it that easily could have been a warehouse

Gina 1:13:23
man. We have a lot of good barbecue here. Arthur Bryant Jr. Joe's barbecue, which used to be Oklahoma Joe's. Gates, of course. I mean, there's just dozens.

Scott Benner 1:13:38
So if I hold on if I say gates barbecue. Yeah, see that's not at that building looks new on a second. What Joe's? Well, they're

Gina 1:13:48
the original Joses literally in a gas station. And people wrap around the building every day to get back but they have a place out in the county as well. That's a little bit more of a restaurant. You were out in the suburbs, and I live in the city. I don't know.

Scott Benner 1:14:05
Quite as well out there your time. I apologize. I thought I thought it was gonna finally get my answer. But instead

Gina 1:14:10
now. I'm sorry. You can just cut this part out.

Scott Benner 1:14:15
Listen, I don't like to edit that much to a lot of trouble. I will keep track. Oh my god. There goes my voice. This is what happens when I try to do two podcasts in one day.

Gina 1:14:27
Oh my gosh, my voice just

Scott Benner 1:14:28
completely disappeared. Alright, I'm sorry. Hold on.

I want to thank Gina for coming on and talking to me today. And I'd also like to thank the Dexcom G six continuous glucose monitor for sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast. Head over now to dexcom.com forward slash juicebox. There are links in the show notes of your podcast player and links at juicebox podcast.com. If you can't remember dexcom.com Last juicebox I want to thank everybody for listening for following and your podcast apps for subscribing for telling other people about the show, leaving wonderful reviews, checking out the private facebook page. See me over there on the Instagram, all the stuff you do. Thank you so much. I'll be back soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.


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