#603 Grandma Heidi

December 29, 2021Scott Benner

Heidi was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes over forty years ago.

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Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 603 of the Juicebox Podcast.

today's podcast brings us a 40 year veteran of the fight with type one diabetes. Heidi was diagnosed when she was nine years old. And she's here today to tell you all about it. While Heidi is talking, and I'm being delightful, I need you to remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan, or becoming bold with insulin. Are you looking for the diabetes pro tip episodes? At the moment? They started episode 210. Go back in your podcast episodes machine, the podcast app and take a look. They're also available at juicebox podcast.com. And diabetes pro tip.com. I said at the moment because I'm toying with re releasing them still trying to figure out if it's a good idea or not. But they're always they'll always be where they're at now, Episode 210 is where they start. You'll see there's a list at diabetes pro tip.com. You you'll you'll figure it out. And if you're interested in community, check out the private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes.

Oh, this is my last ad for 2021. Oh, I'm so excited. I'm finished. You don't know what it's like to get a well maybe know what it's like but an assignment on January 1, to make over 300 live ads for seven companies, six or seven. There's a lot of them. And I'm done. This is it like I've not done like Oh, I'm glad I'm done with that. But like I actually completed it. It's a big deal. For me, I'm the kind of person who you would have you know, give it a book report to an 11th grade and they never would have done it. So I'm proud of myself. So we put a real good effort into this one. Not that they all don't get a good effort. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by touched by type one, please go find them on Instagram, Facebook, and it touched by type one.org touched by type one's mission is to elevate awareness of type one diabetes, raise funds to find a cure and inspire those with diabetes to thrive. You really should check out what they're doing at touched by type one.org. And let me thank them personally for being longtime sponsors of the podcast. Okay, here comes Heidi. By the way, there's gonna be two more episodes this week. These are just the last of the ads. Let's try this again. Hi, how are you? Hi. Oh, everyone your name?

Heidi Wickstrom 2:53
Heidi Wickstrom.

Scott Benner 2:56
Heidi, what makes you want to be on the podcast?

Heidi Wickstrom 3:00
Wow. Well, I guess 40 years of being a diabetic and knowing lots of moms that have little ones that have always come to me and ask questions. And I felt like maybe I could give some advice to others or just some knowledge. Experience.

Scott Benner 3:18
I like it. Yeah. So 40 years ago, you're held now 49 Okay, so when you're nine years old, in

Heidi Wickstrom 3:28
1980 ish. Anyone? Yeah.

Scott Benner 3:31
Wow. Now that was to me. That's that's that's still Dark Ages, right? That's yeah, cloudy. Yeah. No meat or stuff like that? No. Do you remember much of it? Do I do? What sticks out in your mind when I say what's it like growing up a diabetes?

Heidi Wickstrom 3:51
Well, I mean, I have a vivid memory of when I found out. Do you want to hear that story? Tell me more. So Well, first, let me preface that with my dad was also type one from the age of seven. Okay. So my mom was kind of always on the lookout, I guess for one of us to get it possibly. But I remember sitting at a park with my family drinking a coke or soda of some kind. And my mom's next thing I know, I'm at the doctor's office, getting blood work done. And they sit me down like literally in the office like she's behind a desk, the doctor and tells us this news like it's, you know, like you have diabetes, like it's this big announcement. You know, it's very serious. And immediately I had to go home, pack my bags and go to the hospital. Like it was that fast. And just because of my dad I knew that meant shots and so I was devastated because I wanted nothing to do with needles, like every nine year old and then I was in the hospital for either A week. You know, being poked and prodded and get my blood drawn every gosh, I felt like it was every hour.

Scott Benner 5:10
You're in the hospital for a week when you're nine before iPads existed where the? Yes, yes. Would you do? Yeah. Yeah. stare at a wall. Is that what you do? Just stare at the wall?

Heidi Wickstrom 5:22
Yeah, no, I just remember being constantly like poked like people were always coming in and you know, drawing blood giving insulin. You know? I remember seeing my dad on the floor fainting. Weight in the hospital room. Yeah, he would faint when they come draw my blood.

Scott Benner 5:41
Your father a lifelong type one couldn't watch you get blood draws? Yes, he's still with us. He is not Oh, cuz if he was gonna listen to this, I was gonna make fun of them so I could hear it. Sorry,

Heidi Wickstrom 5:53
but you can make fun of me too. I have to lay down and I get my blood taken. I'm a danger. Oh, no kidding. Yeah, no, I always have to lay down that my feet have to be up and otherwise I'm down on the ground.

Scott Benner 6:02
Is it when you see the blood? I know cuz

Heidi Wickstrom 6:05
I don't watch. I never watch it just it's just literally I don't know. They'd say it's psychological. I feel like it's more like the blood leaving my body but

Scott Benner 6:14
I definitely feel that's wrong. Do you get faint when anything else poke show?

Heidi Wickstrom 6:20
Ah, no. It's just about losing blood.

Scott Benner 6:24
Gotcha. So it's the dual blood. Gotcha. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Okay, so your dad's passing out hospital? Yes. Passing

Heidi Wickstrom 6:31
out. And then I gotta remember, they couldn't find veins on me. So they were like putting IVs like up, like in my upper forearm?

Scott Benner 6:41
Yeah, like awful places. Yeah, that doesn't seem fun at all. Now, I'm gonna ask a tough question. If you don't have an answer, it's fine. If you don't want to answer it's fine. Okay. Do you find yourself feeling resentful towards your father? No, no. You ever feel like that's the guy that gave me diabetes? No, never. I wouldn't think so. I just wanted to ask. Yeah, no, no. Okay. It's cool. Because I always wonder that when? When we're having I think I've never asked anybody before.

Heidi Wickstrom 7:10
Yeah, I think he felt that way. But I literally remembering one day actually saying it to him. Like, just so you know, I don't blame you. Well, yeah. I don't know what made me say that. But I do remember vividly saying that to him.

Scott Benner 7:22
You could feel his his guilt.

Heidi Wickstrom 7:24
Yeah, I think so. It's interesting, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah.

Scott Benner 7:29
I think parents feel like that about almost everything. Oh, I'm sure. Yeah. Any little thing you can see in your kids that they don't seem to be happy about, or you wish they didn't have? And you're like, Oh, I did that which is right. Right. But it's hard not to feel that way. It's true. Okay. So you're now taking the shots. You wait. And so giving yourself shots? No problem.

Heidi Wickstrom 7:51
Well, okay, so I was nine. So my mom, another thing I remember. She had to be taught how to give me shots. And the very first time ever, we're in the hospital, and she sticks the needle in my like, inner thigh. And, and then says, Now what, and then pulls it back out, which

Scott Benner 8:13
we'll try again in a second. I should have thought through before we win.

Heidi Wickstrom 8:17
I'm like, Oh my god. So anyway, so my mom gave me shots till I was 12. And I started doing it myself.

Scott Benner 8:24
I got better at it, I imagine.

Heidi Wickstrom 8:26
Yeah. And you practice on oranges. You know, the whole week. You're there,

Scott Benner 8:31
right? Yeah, yeah, we had to practice on bananas. But yeah, I felt bad for the banana every time we threw it. Seriously, that's how broke I was growing up. Every time we threw the banana away. I was like, Oh, well did the hospital visit cost? Like, you know, 50 grand, and I didn't think anything of that. I was like, Well, look, you wasted a lot of bananas in this situation. We just cut a part off of it. And here's that it just seems unfair to the banana consent. Well, your mom haggis had never given your father an injection. No, I guess not. I never asked. But I bet your dad gave your nevermind. Stop it. So but um, Tom? Yeah. How many how do you have any brothers or sisters?

Heidi Wickstrom 9:12
I have a yes. An older brother. Five years older. Okay.

Scott Benner 9:15
Any diabetes there? Nope. Interest nowhere else. Any autoimmune stuff anywhere?

Heidi Wickstrom 9:23
Um, I mean, I also have asthma. We call it autoimmune. But, but now me my brother's totally healthy. We had more we had like, type two on my dad's side, but no other type ones.

Scott Benner 9:38
Are you? Do you think your brother feels guilty? No. You don't think so? He's like, Yeah, whatever. Oh, no. In fact, he'll

Heidi Wickstrom 9:46
say to me now he's Oh my god. He'll say to me like, I'm totally healthy. There's nothing wrong with me. Like good for you.

Scott Benner 9:56
Hey, you want to hear something from the NIH asthma and autoimmune diseases both result from a dysregulated immune system and have been conventionally considered to have mutually exclusive pathogens. autoimmunity is believed to be an exaggerated th one response while asthma with a th two underpinning is congruent with the well accepted th one th two paradigm. Well, there's a lot

Heidi Wickstrom 10:21
of words. Yeah, that's that's exactly what I was gonna tell you. But I didn't think you'd understand.

Scott Benner 10:24
Yeah, I appreciate you trying to save me on that one. But I, I was just gonna say that. I think they're kind of connected somehow. Yeah, me too. Yeah. There's a lot of things people come on here and talk about that are starting to repeat. And I realized it's sort of anecdotal still, because, yeah, just talking to people. But I don't know how many people have to tell you they have type one and they're bipolar before you start thinking like, Hmm, that's interesting. You mean or type? Yeah. And I have really bad allergies, or I have

Heidi Wickstrom 10:51
Crohn's disease and brains,

Scott Benner 10:53
etc, etc. Before you start. I got this. I see what's happening here. Yeah. Okay. So your brother treated you like any older brother would have treated you in any situation? Do you? Did you ever have any anger at him that he wasn't sick? Or

Heidi Wickstrom 11:08
now? Remember that? No. Okay.

Scott Benner 11:11
So then what was management? like day to day? Was it just really just shooting twice a day?

Heidi Wickstrom 11:16
Yeah, no. So it was like mph in the morning? And at night, I believe. And then regular before every meal. Okay, it was literally like, I mean, it was, you know, you had to eat breakfast at seven. You had to have lunch at noon, and you had to have dinner at six or whatever. Or your blood sugar would go at Nana's Right. which I hated. Because what if I wasn't hungry? Right?

Scott Benner 11:40
Shoot on a scale. And you know, choice. Just everything. Shoot, schedule, eat schedule. Yeah, yeah, my

Heidi Wickstrom 11:47
mom, I guess in your Sunday, I don't remember is that I assume she'd had to come to school and give me shots because the nurses there were no nurses giving me shots. So I don't remember that. So I'm kind of surprised.

Scott Benner 11:58
Maybe she shot in the morning before you left?

Heidi Wickstrom 12:01
Maybe But what about lunch? I don't know. I don't remember. I have to ask her that she only worked like a mile from school.

Scott Benner 12:07
Yeah, but you're thinking about how you probably managed now. Like I think in the beginning, you just put in a bunch a breakfast made sure to eat lunch. Yeah, I'm then shot again before dinner. Right?

Heidi Wickstrom 12:16
Yeah. Because I mean, you couldn't check your blood sugar. I had to go get my blood drawn to know my blood sugar. Yeah, and just check your ketones, right. I mean, that's really all you could do

Scott Benner 12:26
you do that frequently?

Heidi Wickstrom 12:28
I feel like I did. Yeah. Wow. Yeah.

Scott Benner 12:31
Do you know what the result of that kind of care pattern was like, did you take a onesies? Do you know what they were?

Heidi Wickstrom 12:37
Oh, yeah. That was awful. It was awful. It was like in the teens.

Scott Benner 12:41
Wow. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I don't know if everybody understands how numbers work but teens started 13. Yeah, okay. Yeah, like there's no 1213 or 17 or anything up there. And and did you know you didn't feel well? Or did you feel okay,

Heidi Wickstrom 13:01
you know, I don't remember thinking I didn't feel well. Which is weird to me. Because now when I see I have a friend whose daughter is eight and she'll tell me the craziest stories she's going through their blood sugar's and I'm like, God, she must feel awful. Because I am I know how I feel. Now. If I'm high. Yeah, but I don't remember feeling I felt like high was my norm. Then when I was younger, well that's why

Scott Benner 13:26
it felt okay. Because your body does Yeah, little adjustments the vessels and things so that you don't you feel normal at that blood sugar, but still all the all the bad long term stuff is going Did you have any short term problems?

Heidi Wickstrom 13:37
No knock on wood. And I've made one DKA when I was probably somewhere in my teens again.

Scott Benner 13:47
I was gonna say like, 17 about about it. Yeah,

Heidi Wickstrom 13:50
no, I was younger, because I remember just I think my mom thought I had the flu because I was like vomiting. But I remember vividly having a lot of stomach pain and had like laboring to breathe. Yeah. And obviously, eventually I went to the hospital. That's what it was.

Scott Benner 14:07
You should never get that far when you were diagnosed because your mom saw some.

Heidi Wickstrom 14:10
No, no. That makes sense. None of the weight loss none of that stuff. Yeah, she

Scott Benner 14:15
she saw it really early because she was probably Yeah, she's watching for Iraq. Yeah, she

Heidi Wickstrom 14:19
said it was the thirst and urination. You know, having to go the bathroom really thirsty, having another bathroom? And I'm like, yep.

Scott Benner 14:25
So can we jump over for a second? Yeah, they're probably managed similarly. Say guys again. Your father. He probably managed himself similar to? Yes. Yeah. For his entire life. He never switched. No. How old? Was he when he passed? 66. Interesting. Yeah, how old were you when you switched over to a faster acting insulin?

Heidi Wickstrom 14:48
Oh, faster. Gosh, that I couldn't tell you. I just remember when I switched to a pump. Probably like, I don't remember.

Scott Benner 14:54
So did you do two shots a day until the pump?

Heidi Wickstrom 14:58
I didn't know I was doing like five or six. Next. Oh, so

Scott Benner 15:01
you started doing multiple daily injections in there? Yeah. Yeah. You know how old you were when that happened ish? Yeah, I

Heidi Wickstrom 15:07
was like, 30 Wow,

Scott Benner 15:09
I'm gonna do some more math. That's 21 years of doing it the other way.

Heidi Wickstrom 15:13
You're sorry. We're sorry. I was like, 30 When I went to a pump, so sorry. Um, so I was probably 20.

Scott Benner 15:21
See, that's my guess is if you were nine, yeah, one, then by 88 or so. I got to feel like you're, that's when those insulin started coming up. Hey, I'm sorry. I'm following a woman. Blood sugar right now. Give me a second to look at it. Yeah, she's saying, Okay, it's Taco Time. But I gotta change my site. I'm gonna take a full four years. I've left it and then the other one, I changed it in five minutes. But it's hard to be a little more aggressive because of the change because of the slight change and being in exercise mode. Do not everybody sent me an email and asked me to help you with your blood sugar just because I did this while I was recording. This woman hit all my good heartstrings. All right, and she's been very cool. She's also listens, by the way, okay. Not like some of you who I help and you're like, Are you sure? Like, I'm more sure than you are? I might not be sure. But I saw your graph and you called and you don't know what you're doing. So why don't we give it a shot? What I'm saying. Anyway, yeah. So your father never switches you probably around your late teens early 20s start doing MDI you do MDI for 10 years.

Heidi Wickstrom 16:49
So age nine till I was 30.

Scott Benner 16:52
Yeah, well, I mean, you know, it's funny isn't that funny? I think multiple Oh, you mean

Heidi Wickstrom 16:56
multiple daily inject? Got

Scott Benner 16:57
it? Yeah. No,

Heidi Wickstrom 16:59
I mean, to me, they're always multiple right?

Scott Benner 17:02
To is multiple so. So you've done multiple daily injections the whole time? You started with a faster acting mealtime insulin, right around 20 years old. Did that for 10 years. Did you ever have a CGM in those 10 years? No. Do you now? Yes. Interesting. So you got a pump when you were 30? Yeah. And that was a couple of years ago. Isn't it suck when you think of your life like this? Oh my god, I can't I hate this. I hate talking like this. I'm going to be 50 next month. I'm like, oh, yeah,

Heidi Wickstrom 17:31
so you're worse. So we're, yeah, so we're close in age. Yeah.

Scott Benner 17:33
But it sucks. Like, you know, does suck talking about the 80s like it was 30 years ago.

Heidi Wickstrom 17:38
I know. And I have a teenager who's dressing like it's the 90s the 90s like okay, this is all coming back. I said did you buy a toe ring yet? Or an anklet?

Scott Benner 17:48
We don't post yourself Heather Locklear come back. Okay, that's gonna be a problem, Benoit. That might that might not the modern that's not gonna happen. might not like that. Yeah, they like their naked ladies on the screen, not hung up on a wall. I tried to explain to my son one time that I worked in a sheetmetal shop when I was a kid. And yeah, there were posters of half naked or naked women everywhere in that place. And he's like, and no one said anything. I said Cole, it was so incredibly common. I don't think anyone thought anything of it. And no, to watch him not be able to wrap his head around that. And then I realized now at then being, you know, removed from it for quite some time. I was like, wow, that was so incredibly wrong. Like it's just, like, so inappropriate and wrong and crazy. And, like Mike, like, there was a woman that worked there in the office and she had to walk. You know what I mean? And none of it

Heidi Wickstrom 18:46
was just like my, my brother having posters in his bedroom, right? Look, what what would it be Christie Brinkley or? Yeah, Paulina Porizkova. Not he has a sister who wasn't getting care care or a mother

Scott Benner 18:57
and people who have never seen these posters. These girls were wearing nothing. They barely Yeah,

Heidi Wickstrom 19:02
it was strange. Let me see no Sports Illustrated Swimsuit cover sheets.

Scott Benner 19:06
I don't think they do anymore either, by the way. No, they don't. Yeah. And I'm not saying there's no right or like, well, maybe I am saying maybe we were wrong back then. But I think it's easier to say that it's interesting to watch people progress, right? Or to notice things that were like you know what, that wasn't a good idea. We'll stop doing that. Or technology changes so you move along like I mean, honestly magazines with scantily clad women. There used to be an unlimited supply of them. There must have been 40 of them on a news Oh, yeah. And people listening don't even know what a newsstand is. And you know and and my point I guess it was a weird segue but yeah, you went through the cloudy and the all that stuff into the you know into the fast track the meal insulin then to a pump, then eventually to a CGM, but your father never came along with it. It missed it

Heidi Wickstrom 19:56
now. Well, you know what he also whenever Think of my dad I think of he was literally if you looked up diabetes and everything that could go wrong, it was my dad. Okay. Like he, you know, his vision, he lost a leg he lost toes. He, you know, I mean everything, you know, eventually kidney failure heart, you know all that stuff. Well, it didn't take care of himself.

Scott Benner 20:22
So that was he not doing what the minimum of what they were asking him to do.

Heidi Wickstrom 20:28
I literally just think he took ish the same amount of insulin every every time and just ate and drank and, you know, he liked his beer.

Scott Benner 20:39
He was just gonna write this out like I got diabetes. Let's see how far how long I can stay on this ball is that

Heidi Wickstrom 20:45
yeah, it was I don't know. I just think stubborn. You know, some some men are stubborn.

Scott Benner 20:49
Okay, some women are stubborn. There's one of them below me on another floor, the structure. I think some people can be stubborn, but

Heidi Wickstrom 21:00
But I remember when it by the time I started mentioning like a pump. Like when I had mine. He was already like his fingers. He wouldn't even be able to like, I don't think he could do it. Like he you know, he had lots of trigger finger, which I've had too. But so he has a lot of you know, his fingers like cramping. And I don't know, I just felt like it was too late. When just sad to say how old

Scott Benner 21:24
were you when you realized he could be doing a different thing?

Heidi Wickstrom 21:31
I guess when he started having stuff go wrong. So like he lost his leg at 50? The year 2000. So Wow. 57 I think he was

Scott Benner 21:42
did that frighten you? Person? Oh,

Heidi Wickstrom 21:44
yeah. Oh, yeah. No, he's the one that made me go. You know, this is not, you know, this is serious business. I've got it, you know, really take care of myself.

Scott Benner 21:55
Good for you. I'm just working now on getting a behavioral scientist to come on and talk about something called sunk cost fallacy. You know what that is? No. It describes I'm going to read right off the internet for you. A sunk cost fallacy describes our tendency to follow through on an endeavor, if we have already invested time, effort or money into it, whether or not the current costs outweigh the benefits. It's an economic idea that also comes into psychology a little bit. Yeah, I think it's, I think it relates significantly to people who were diagnosed in the 80s, or before. Yeah, with type one. And I'm concerned, why I'm going to talk about now on the podcast, that one day, as hard as it might be to believe at this moment, there may be a better way than what we're doing now. And that people might feel so invested in what they've already done, that they feel like there's just no reason to try. And so I'm going to have someone come on and talk about it. Because I think it's a I think it's a paralysis that you kind of get right, you know, well, I'm sorry, I'm sorry for you. You know, for that, I can tell you that. I think what happened to him is fairly common for people diagnosed when he was oh, yeah, lifespan, etc.

Heidi Wickstrom 23:12
So like, 1950 Yeah, yeah.

Scott Benner 23:14
Was it a heart attack in the end? You know,

Heidi Wickstrom 23:17
it and he just, it was systemic, like just systemic infection everywhere. Like, everything just shut down. Yeah.

Scott Benner 23:25
So he has an amputation. And then you think, tell me again, with this insulin pump is is that was it about it?

Heidi Wickstrom 23:33
Yeah, I don't. I'm trying to think if I had it at that time, maybe I hadn't had it yet.

Scott Benner 23:38
But something about his health push.

Heidi Wickstrom 23:40
Yeah, that was Yeah, because I mean, long story short, I mean, this leg amputation started with an a blister on his heel. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. And by the time he called me, we weren't, you know, my parents. Sorry. My parents were divorced when I was an infant. Okay, so, so we weren't close. We were close. We weren't super close. But anyway, he's the kind of guy that like, I got a phone call. And he says, I know we had a sore spot, but he's like, by the way, I'm having surgery tomorrow. They're taking my leg. He says, and they gave me 50% chance of making it through surgery. I'm like, I'm sorry. What?

Scott Benner 24:21
How far from you? Did you live?

Heidi Wickstrom 24:24
Well, he's in Palm Springs and I'm in Orange County so hour and a half.

Scott Benner 24:26
I love men born in that time in the in the world in the in that?

Heidi Wickstrom 24:34
What's the funny thing is I don't even think he called me I think I called to check in on him and he happened to tell me that's

Scott Benner 24:40
exactly what I'm talking about. Hey, Dad. Oh, we're gonna get on a plane and go kill some Nazis. What? Yeah, I'll be back or I won't. Don't worry about it. You know, just a real like,

Unknown Speaker 24:51
I don't even matter of fact.

Scott Benner 24:53
Oh my gosh, no big deal. We're in a world war. You stay with your mom. I'll see you later. Yeah,

Heidi Wickstrom 24:58
so I'm at work and so I rushing into my boss's office crying say I gotta

Scott Benner 25:03
go. cutting my dad's leg off. He didn't even want to tell me any, you might

Heidi Wickstrom 25:06
not make it. Yeah. You know what I mean, it was the craziest phone call ever. So you know, I drive to Palm Springs. But the crazy what I was getting to is, you know, I'm in there visiting my dad, the the wound care guy comes in and he says to me, you might want to leave when I change this bandage. And I'm like, okay, and he's like, the smell is pretty bad. He's or at least put a mask on. So put a mask on. And he literally took this bandage off and a half of my dad's butt was gone. Wow. Just from bacteria. Yeah. And high blood sugars. That's crazy.

Scott Benner 25:41
And it was crazy. And it was it was clear to you in that moment. I mean, I'm sure it was. But why why he was having this problem. Oh, yeah.

Heidi Wickstrom 25:48
I was like, oh my god, this is why you can't just take whatever shot you want and eat whatever you want. And just

Scott Benner 25:53
call it a day. Did you? Did you chastise them a little bit? Or were you able to hold it in?

Heidi Wickstrom 25:57
No, I mean, I, I just, you know, knew He was who He was. And yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's that was that interesting time anyway, he obviously he didn't pass that you made it through surgery. Everything was great. But I do have a funny story. So do you think you'd like funny stories,

Scott Benner 26:11
I have to tell you something it as weird as it might sound so that you can see into my brain a little bit. The preposterous nature of your father not calling you before that surgery is funny to me. The rest of the details are hard, you're like this, you're like this. Go ahead.

Heidi Wickstrom 26:25
So he's in pre op, he's about to go into surgery, you know, me and his, my step mom's there and my brother. And we're saying, Okay, you're gonna be great, you know, you're gonna do fine. And he's saying, Well, you know, just in case I don't make it goodbye, and I go, dad, you know, come on, have a good attitude, blah, blah. The next thing I swear to God, we hear a saw going on. I'm like, Oh, my God, what is that? I go around out of the curtain. And there's somebody literally signing something in the hallway of the hospital. And I look at him I go, my dad is about to get his leg amputated. Do you mind doing that later?

Scott Benner 27:05
Can you wait till I go out to like the waiting area before you start running a circular saw, please. It's literally I was like, we're just I mean, also for people a nice look back into the past. They're doing construction in an operating wing of the hospital. Like where it's people are still going and moving around. And no one no one would think twice about that

Heidi Wickstrom 27:26
you saw on some under the sink in the hallway, like a pipe or something. And I'm like, Oh, my God.

Scott Benner 27:31
Yeah. There's a time probably not 20 years before that, where the doctor would have stood there smoking a cigarette change in your file for sure. For sure. We really have it together, don't we?

Heidi Wickstrom 27:41
Oh, my God. We're not even that long ago, my senior trip to Cancun, we could smoke on the plane.

Scott Benner 27:47
Your high school your high school senior trip? Yes. Yes.

Heidi Wickstrom 27:51
I didn't smoke. But they were smoking

Scott Benner 27:53
it? Of course you didn't. You would never. But is that something? We wouldn't a school trip one time? I'm going to say no lie. We were in ninth grade. I don't know how old that makes you. But maybe 14 were the same. Yeah. Okay. And we go into Manhattan. Now, not the Manhattan of today, post COVID. And not the Manhattan of pre COVID where, you know, The Lion King runs around and there's that half naked guy and a cowboy hat playing a guitar and it's all fun. And you can go to Fuddruckers? Like not like that. Manhattan, like where you were there. And you're like, someone's gonna sell me drugs. You're trying to kill me? Like, let that level of Manhattan right. And we're gonna go to, you know, you think Oh, it's a school trip. They'll take you they'll have a you know, itinerary setup, you'll do thing we pull up three buses full of kids, boom, boom, boom, everybody gets out. We're standing on the sidewalk and the teacher goes, break up into groups be back here at 5pm. Can you imagine?

Heidi Wickstrom 28:56
Do you remember being scared? Were you scared? No. We

Scott Benner 28:58
were like, amazing. Let's go. Like, it was just like, you looked around for your four best friends and you're like, This is great. We're just free in New York City. And we had money in our pockets. And we were like, some kids came back high as a kite. One one kid came back had so many fireworks. I think he was trying to start a fireworks like Emporium when he got home. Kids were drunk. People like it was in sane and completely common and and realistic for the time period. Yes. I just told Arden the other day that when I was in elementary school, my entire school about 700 kids went to see I think The Empire Strikes Back in a movie theater.

Heidi Wickstrom 29:44
Oh my gosh,

Scott Benner 29:44
there was a movie theater. A five. Let's call it a five minute drive from the school. Okay, we all just went out in the front parking lot of the school got into a tandem line and walk they're like down round corners across streets like like Baby, Baby ducks, just, you know, that went on forever. And I said that to her and she goes, my school would never do that. They'd never let us do that. I was like, I know. And her friend goes, and we don't have any fun at all. And I was like, yeah, no. So different world, obviously different time for your father, he probably, I'm gonna guess, did what he was told what he was told wasn't that helpful. At some point, you get like, I guess this is what it is. I'm just gonna, like I said, get on this bowl and see how long I can stay on. Yeah, then things change over. But not in a way where anybody ever reached back to people they never, like, that's the, to me, that's the message of this this hour is that management comes in waves. And you can very easily get stuck in the wave that you were brought up in. And that that might be a great idea. Yeah. So alright, so how did you find having a pump

this is going to be short and sweet. Touched by type one.org. Go type it into a browser, and then look around, check out their programs, like their annual conference awareness campaign, both for cause dance program dancing for diabetes, their D box program, type one at school. There's a little link there for their upcoming events. And you can find out how to support them through donations, shopping, or becoming a volunteer touched by type one.org. That was that we're done.

Heidi Wickstrom 31:45
We loved it. I think the thing I love the most about it was so I went through, you know, stages of weight gain with shots, like and I finally figured out okay, like while I'm eating and I'm going hungry, right? Because I had to eat. And so when I got on the pump, I was like, wow, so I don't feel like I want a huge lunch at noon. I don't have to have it. Yeah. And if I want to just snack all day I can and that that was the part I liked the most about it.

Scott Benner 32:10
Just being able to eat like something like walk

Heidi Wickstrom 32:13
if you wanted to eat and you didn't have to eat or you could skip whatever. You know, I like I'm a snacker I like to snack. I don't like huge meals and I never really have. So that was the best part of it for me. Yeah, and of course my blood sugar's were awesome once I was on it,

Scott Benner 32:28
right? No one, no one puts a slice of pepperoni on a Ritz cracker if they've got to pull a needle out for it. Right? You're just like, I'll skip it. I'll wait on the bigger meal literally. Yeah. So that and and that's those are early pumps to so they were just kind of more efficient delivery systems that you didn't have to poke yourself for. Yeah, yeah. Right. You didn't use any kind of like, you weren't thinking about like extending boluses or that didn't even exist. I

Heidi Wickstrom 32:54
don't I feel like I did. But I don't know how long into it. I did. It was like a mini med. I think I had a mini med first and then I had like a paradigm and then I had a I had a few of them.

Scott Benner 33:04
Can you imagine people listening right now? We're like there's T slim and on the pod and Medtronic. What are you talking about? Me? Yeah, paradigm. You know what did that

Heidi Wickstrom 33:12
I think Medtronic was mini med. I believe that. Okay? Yeah.

Scott Benner 33:15
It's just interesting how the wording the word I know. I know. At what point in this does the CGM pop up?

Heidi Wickstrom 33:25
You know what that was? That was only probably let me think in the last seven years, really? Okay. So I don't know how long it's been around. How long have we had Dexcom? Okay, so

Scott Benner 33:42
if you're on a Dexcom, and it started with

Heidi Wickstrom 33:45
a four I think even five.

Scott Benner 33:48
Okay. Arden started with like the is the original Yeah, they whatever the original what they had their numbering system was messed up for a while, like there was for like a something plus I forget now they're in a in a numerical Dexcom four or five, six at sevens kind of be out. Your sevens coming? Yeah, yeah. Actually, by the time this comes out, I bet seven exists. Well,

Unknown Speaker 34:11
I'm excited. Yeah.

Scott Benner 34:13
Also, don't say that out loud to anybody, because I believe I've signed an NDA, but as long as you okay. So anyway, yes, I

Heidi Wickstrom 34:22
think I started with a four, but nothing earlier than that. Okay.

Scott Benner 34:25
Yeah. So you've had it? Probably seven, eight years, then that's probably in that space. It's funny, because now people who have them probably don't imagine they ever didn't exist, but they're still fairly new. I call under 10 years new, honestly. Yeah. Yeah. What did you notice first when you had a CGM on

Heidi Wickstrom 34:45
I guess just not pricking my finger 10 times a day.

Scott Benner 34:48
So that was the big that was the big thing for you is just not having to test your blood sugar. Yeah, right.

Heidi Wickstrom 34:54
Did it wasn't good? Yeah. I mean, I guess, obviously, it was watching the trends too. But I really wasn't doing that it was more, more just having the not having to test as much.

Scott Benner 35:09
Do you use it for more than that now?

Heidi Wickstrom 35:12
Well, and then, you know, and then I went through a phase of being overly obsessed with it. Were over cracking and stuff cuz like, Oh no, I'm going up like, oh, no, you know, I mean, and then you overcorrect. And so now I'm just kind of just let it be. And I'm also looping to

Scott Benner 35:26
Okay. Oh, you are now. That's cool. Yeah.

Heidi Wickstrom 35:28
I've been doing that for like two years. Well,

Scott Benner 35:31
I think Arden's probably coming up on a couple of years now with

Heidi Wickstrom 35:33
that. Yeah, whenever it well, not when it first started. But yeah, it's like it's been two years.

Scott Benner 35:38
What you mentioned the, the kind of like, obsessing over the CGM. Yeah, that was such a big concern slash issue when they first came out. Because, because just nothing like that ever existed. It's hard to imagine, right? Like, and then suddenly, this whole, you know, group family of people who had lived some of them exactly the way you're describing, or, you know, the way my daughter came up with, you know, just multiple daily injections and a meter, and I didn't know what was going on. And like that whole thing. Some people saw that, and they couldn't stop looking at it. Well, yeah, it really gripped them. But I think it's better now. Like, I think now that it's become more common. It's, you know, kind of mixing the zeitgeist a little bit people understand it better. Hopefully. Yeah, they're not as gripped by it.

Heidi Wickstrom 36:25
And I had to just adjust my alarms and stuff to like, I, I mean, I know a lot of people say they have a alarm go off, like, I don't know, like, 100. And something. I'm like, Oh, my God, I don't want to hear I don't want to hear a thing out of my pump. Unless I'm like, 250.

Scott Benner 36:40
So you're old school. You're older with diabetes? Well,

Heidi Wickstrom 36:43
yeah. And you know, it's funny, the only thing that scares me for people, I don't want to say scares, but I do think about it, is if What if you didn't have any of this stuff? And you do have to go back to like, shots, or and I don't know why you would. But I always feel like everybody should really have a grip on shots and pricking your finger.

Scott Benner 37:03
I'm going to call this episode, grandma. Heidi, what do you think?

Heidi Wickstrom 37:10
But no, don't you understand what I mean, though? You just have a grip on it. Like, what if you lose your insurance? Right? God forbid.

Scott Benner 37:18
So here's what I think I understand. So this is really common. I'm not making fun of you about it. I know, I think that people who grew up the way you did with diabetes, that is every time this comes up, that's their their concern. But, and I and back, when I first heard that concern, I thought, okay, that makes sense. Get good at it with like, the basic tools, and then blah, blah, blah, but it's hard to get good at it with the basic tools. So why not get really good at it with the great tools, and if something should befall me, and I lose my insurance. I have all that knowledge about how to do things, and then I can apply the more basic tools to my advanced knowledge. I think you have it exactly backwards. Okay, okay. I think that hopefully, that will never happen. But if it does, you'll have so much information in your head from using a CGM and a pump, that you'd then be able to do it. Like I see it as like, you know, the zombies come you flee your home, you grab the basics, and but you still remember how it used to be so you, you can shoot for that with your basic tools. Right. And I don't I don't even I don't judge anybody who has that thought. Because that thought occurred to me as well back then. It's only through the process of making the podcast that I think it's backwards. I think it's just a scared idea from people who came up a different way. That makes sense. That makes sense. Yeah, yeah. Why don't have to agree with me. You could just say I completely disagree. Actually, it would make it more fun. We could argue.

Heidi Wickstrom 38:48
I'm gonna make my own podcast and call you a different name.

Scott Benner 38:50
Go ahead. I'll tell you what, if you can figure out how to get a podcast on the air. I'll be your first guest. What do you think about? A lot? I heard you tried to get on this zoom this morning. You're never gonna do it?

Heidi Wickstrom 39:04
No, it was literally I don't know what it was. It was my ear. It was my air pods. I don't know what's happened

Scott Benner 39:08
signal air pods, something like that. Not your fault completely. No, but I'm being serious about that. Like, I think. I think it's, I think there's a lot of value in having a deeper understanding. Yeah, and I also think that you want to talk deeply for a second about things. Yeah, I think that as humans, we've we create fixes to problems that then need fixes. So you know, you, you know, from the first time Man, you know, set a fire, then they burned something down, they had to learn to put it out. You know, we keep moving forward. There has been no time in our history, where we have gone backwards with technology. As a matter of fact, I think that technology always requires more technology. At some point at some point humanity's job We'll just be to keep humanity moving like like everyone's it's a weird thought but but if what you're describing would either have to be a decimation of finances which I think is possible for people obviously. Yeah, or you know World War where they just aren't things aren't being made anymore and then I don't want to break it to you too harshly. Heidi, but, you know, you and my daughter, you're sure you're in trouble. So, you know, like, that's that that's gonna be I wouldn't plan for that kind of devastation I guess. Okay, the partial we learn how to get insulin from cows. I think it's pigs isn't it? bovine Oh isn't bovine cows isn't a bovine a pig. Oh god. Alrighty, this is gonna be really embarrass my zoom there. Oh, great. Now you found the name of the podcast either both. Oh bovine a biological sub family includes a diverse group of 10 medium to large size undulates including domestic cattle bison African buffalo for horn and spark your right so then what the hell

Heidi Wickstrom 41:09
hold a look at you. I know what I was injecting in myself

Scott Benner 41:12
so excited. Yeah, hold on a second a pig. Is pig not a bovine? Yeah, it is. There may be bovine is a term relating to cattle there may be exceptions to this term uses our cattle horses asses swine. Oh, Vine is a term related to sheep. Pork poor sign is a term related to swine. Okay, so a hog is por sign. bovine is cattle. You are right. And I got to say SS without blurring it out. Because it means donkey. So that's true. Yeah, you go.

Heidi Wickstrom 41:49
Well, I I seriously feel like I remember a picture of a cow on my insulin box.

Scott Benner 41:55
Really? I swear, hold on a second. We're looking for that.

Heidi Wickstrom 42:00
Look up mph regular 1980. Something we

Scott Benner 42:03
could you tell me how to Google Hold on a second. Definitely somebody is Mother. How many children do everything? Yeah. How many children do you have? Two? How old? Are they?

Heidi Wickstrom 42:16
14 and 10?

Scott Benner 42:20
It's when a cow on it?

Unknown Speaker 42:25
I swear. Swear there was a cow.

Scott Benner 42:28
Oh, no. All right. That's up to you to find. Or I'll find it and make it the cover of your episode.

Heidi Wickstrom 42:33
Alright, thanks.

Scott Benner 42:36
That's crazy. Any concern about your children? Do you think about

Heidi Wickstrom 42:39
it? I mean, sometimes when not really. I mean, like where I live. And I don't know if it's everywhere. But most of the people here have their kids on all those trials to see if they carry the trial machine. Yeah, they're do it all the time. And I'm like, I just don't want to obsess over it. I'm just like, you know, but they're like, but if they do have it, then you can kind of prevent it or put it off. And I'm like, I I just know.

Scott Benner 43:03
So. So let me ask you a question. First of all, I people come from two different categories on that. I understand both sides, I don't want to think about it. And I know how to take care of diabetes if it should happen. And I want to know cuz I want to try to do something. So they have this drug now people are using called to miss a blob, or something like that. And yeah, it's like a please, all these details. I have a great episode on it. Go listen to that if you want to. But But um, but they it's like this infusion that you do like a certain amount of days in a row and then it's over. And it like really slows down the progression of type one in their in their studies. And I think that's why they're doing it, but I don't think it's, they're getting through the FDA, it's moving along. So, so forget, like, my how things really work if I told you, if you did trial that you'd be able to find out if your kid was getting diabetes, and then they could stop it that you would do. Yeah, right. Okay, obviously. That's that one company's goal is to, I guess, put beta cells back in. And it's just a really interesting conversation beta cells back in and protect your, your immune system from going back against you again, they're also talking about long term inoculating people, for many of the viruses that end up kicking type one in so the idea is maybe you'll have the genetic predisposition to it. But if you never get Coxsackie virus or you never get this virus or that virus, then you might have a chance of never getting type one. It's interesting like prevent like preventative type one by preventing other things that aren't type one, which I thought was kind of interesting anyway it's a really cool this is cool,

Heidi Wickstrom 44:53
but yeah, so anyway, I you know, I keep my eye on them, but I, you know, I watch for having to use the bathroom too much or

Scott Benner 45:00
Be honest with me. Be honest with me. They crested the age that you and your father were diagnosed that so you feel better about it?

Heidi Wickstrom 45:09
Well, my son's not well, he's 10. Yeah, he's right. Yeah, I mean, I guess I do. I probably do. Yeah, I definitely remember them being that age and thinking, No, this was when, you know, I probably said it

Scott Benner 45:20
to them. You're about to get diabetes for your birthday congratulate. And

Heidi Wickstrom 45:24
I just, you know, your mom was going through at this time, and you're complaining about whatever?

Scott Benner 45:31
Yeah, I think parenting magazine says not to guilt your children like that about. Right. But I have described there was, there was a couple of times where my wife was like, you know, the fact that your dad would hit you for saying that and you haven't hit our children for it's not something you're supposed to tell them. Okay. But I just wanted to know that if they would have said that to my dad, they'd be, they'd be across the room behind the sofa, wondering what happened to them. Right. So, and again, I realized that's wrong. Don't get me wrong.

Heidi Wickstrom 46:01
Yeah, no, no, of course. Oh, my gosh.

Scott Benner 46:05
But yeah, I don't do that anymore. But I had to do it a couple of times. I was like, because it's hard not to feel like you have no idea what would have happened to me if I would have said that to somebody.

Heidi Wickstrom 46:16
No, I I've definitely said that myself to my, to my son, for sure.

Scott Benner 46:20
Again, I don't think you're supposed to but whatever. Now who knows really? What's your care like today? What are your outcomes like today?

Heidi Wickstrom 46:30
Well, okay, so, since I started the pump, I've never Okay, so since I started the pump, I have never been lower than the sixes from a onesies. Okay, so 20 years, but since I started the Riley, I'm in the fives.

Scott Benner 46:45
Okay, so you're looping and you're in the fives now? Yeah. How often do you think you're low that needs intervention? Under 5050? And under like that kind of low?

Heidi Wickstrom 46:56
Oh, that needs intervention. You mean like, besides me just eating a sugar pill? Or what do you mean? No,

Scott Benner 47:01
that's what I mean. Like you having a long thing. Like where the loop doesn't catch.

Heidi Wickstrom 47:05
Oh, last night was the cluster. I had a real bad night last night. Because of I don't have my glucose tabs, because I have glucose tabs I dialed in. Like, I know exactly how many I need depending on the number and if I have any insulin on board, or whatever. But last night, I went for the orange juice, which was a mistake. Because I never really know how much I need and I just kind of you know into middle the night so drink down and then loop sees my sugar spiking and then gives me insulin and then I ended up crashing. And I did take have some more and then I crashed. It literally happened. I feel like all night last night.

Scott Benner 47:39
Particularly couple minutes picking insulin, orange juice. Can we pick through this for the last couple minutes? Do you mind? Well, no, he wouldn't be insulted by a person who doesn't have diabetes talking to you about All right. Thank you. Okay, so how often do you get over 200? Daily? No, weekly. Maybe do you Pre-Bolus Now, you know what the problem is? No, you don't Pre-Bolus You have to prove off.

Heidi Wickstrom 48:13
If I bet if I Pre-Bolus and I'm already 75 I'm going to crash

Scott Benner 48:17
because your settings are wrong. You're probably too strong. What am I guessing here? Your Basal maybe is too strong trying to make up for the fact that you don't Pre-Bolus and that you're higher during the day than you want to be because you're not Pre-Bolus thing so if you had your so if your Basal was right and your insulin sensitivity was right, you would not get low over and over again at night. Unless you were busy. unbalancing your meal insulin by not Pre-Bolus Singh. Do you listen to this podcast at all? Yeah, no, I

Heidi Wickstrom 48:50
do I not religiously. I'll be honest. I listened to that's fine. Everyone. Oh, yes, they do. That's fine. You Jenny I listened to I see.

Scott Benner 48:57
Okay, so. Oh, it's interesting.

Heidi Wickstrom 49:02
Okay, so can I tell you something though? I

Scott Benner 49:04
am your thing. Yeah. I'm sorry. Yeah, go please.

Heidi Wickstrom 49:09
Okay, um, every night like I have a bedtime snack. I just do. So if I decide to try something different, which I did last night, it can go to hell. So like I had a you can bar ever heard of a you can bar? No. It's supposed to be a long. It's a carb stabilizing starch. It's literally meant for like long term blood stabilization. Okay, and I remember last time I had one, that it didn't work the way it's supposed to right is supposed to be long absorption, right? So we Okay, well eat this. It was 20 grams. My pump went to give me 1.4 And I said, Nope, I know that's too much. I gave myself one unit. And I gave it a long acting I just put four hours because literally it was kind of like a cuz I hadn't had it and gosh, couple years. So I'm like, I'm just gonna give it a you know, see what happens. So what happened was just like I assumed it would I crashed and right away like it will actually sorry, it absorbed right away. And so I got high and then I went really low because it corrected while I was sleeping. And then that's what I had the orange juice, I had too much orange juice and then went high. And that's the thing with that link the Riley I don't really understand or is when I tell it, I've had the orange juice, then it doesn't work out. But if I ignore that I corrected my low.

Scott Benner 50:42
Yes. So I will tell you that if Arden is you know I'm saying if Arden's getting low or low, and I use some fast acting sugar to fix it. I do No, I do not put those carbs in the loop. Okay, so if she's 60, diagonal down, and I'm like, Here drink a juice, and the juice is 12 or 15 carbs. I don't I tell it nothing. Okay, then if she reaches the threshold, which I think on her pump is like 95. So she gets like 95 diagnose, it'll make like small bonuses or, you know, it'll jack up your Basal depending on what version you're using. Yeah, and but yeah, I would never like it's 65 Diagonal down, say Bolus 12 units for this juice. Not right, because because we've made a mistake in the past. And she has too much insulin. Yeah, we need to balance that back out again. But But what I'm saying is this is like so on a good night. Where did you? Where does your blood sugar sit? Stable? Oh, at? Cool. And am I allowed to ask how much? Why? Yeah. 120. Okay, what's your Basal right an hour?

Heidi Wickstrom 51:51
My wait an hour, your Basal rate? Oh, you want to know all of them? I mean, they're all different. See? A lot of them. Why do you

Scott Benner 51:57
have so many? I don't like that. Well, what

Heidi Wickstrom 52:02
can I tell you and I pretty much a creature of habit, which you kind of have to be right. But um, so I'm gonna open this up. Um, so, okay, so I wake up at 7am I have a cup of coffee. And then I work out I literally fast. And I don't probably eat till 10 or 11. Okay. So and that's the norm for me. So, um, so I workout fasted, I'm fine. And then I eat. And that's just the way it is. So anyway, so I do feel like sometimes that doesn't happen. Obviously, it affects my day, but so my rate starting it, where you need to start. Oh, started midnight. Okay, so midnight, point two. And then I start to get that Dawn phenomenon three, and I go to point four. And then by the time I'm awake, I go up to point four or five. And then by the time I'm ready for food, and I've exercised, it goes to point five, five at 10. And then I'm point five, five till five o'clock. Okay. And then at five o'clock, I'm point six. And then at nine, I'm point four, five. And then I go back to point two at 930. When I go to sleep, we're very low at night.

Scott Benner 53:20
Were you getting you get low overnight when you go to sleep? Well,

Heidi Wickstrom 53:24
um, no, I don't anymore. But I was I've had to, in the past. Say, I've never had a horrible low where I needed intervention from someone else. But it's happened twice in the last four years.

Scott Benner 53:38
Okay. So you've waited night to kind of get in front of that?

Heidi Wickstrom 53:43
Yeah, so my doctor and I just kind of in he's very, he always says, like, you know, more than I do. Right? You know, and so we'll talk about it. He's like, Yeah, just adjust this and that and, you know, or whenever, you know, I basically adjusted on my own. Right. But um, yeah, so nine, I'm very low.

Scott Benner 54:02
Gotcha. So I wouldn't listen, if whatever works, works for everyone listening, but there, you have to, in my opinion, you have to be careful that you're not setting Basal rates that are meant to stop problems that can be stopped in other ways. Okay. Does that make sense? So, yeah, you know, like, already, like, I'm

Heidi Wickstrom 54:21
not taking enough at for a meal or I'm taking too much for a meal. Yeah, right. Or,

Scott Benner 54:25
or you're, I mean, in your case with loop if your insulin sensitivity is too strong in the afternoon, or in the evening, and you're having to dial everything back because you've got too much insulin coming into when you digest your dinner and lay down to go to bed. Then, you know, you don't I mean, like if you're too strong in one place. The way I think of it is that everything you do with insulin right now is for later, but kind of more importantly, think about it like this. Everything you did before with insulin is for now Right. So if you're getting low at midnight? I don't I mean, the common, the common idea would be if you're getting low at midnight to make your Basal lower, maybe at 11pm, right to try to stop that. But but before you do that, I would look at what happens at dinner and the hours before that, like, is there something we can be doing in there better, like more balanced carbs against insulin that would stop a low at midnight, like that's not to say that it wouldn't end up being an 11pm Basal decrease in that situation. But I'd want to really like rip apart the rest of it before I did that, like Ardens, a Ardens. Basal rate is just basically one Basal rate 24 hours day, and then, you know, it's a little lower overnight. And by that, I mean, like 1.2 to one or 1.1 2.9, depending on if she's got her period, or she doesn't like that. Yeah. But whatever works works, but I don't, I would hate to see you. Having all these like Basal fixes all over the place to catch problems that maybe you wouldn't have to have to begin with. And also if your Basal was, if your Basal and your insulin sensitivity was stable, like that you could because you can fast in the morning, you're saying Where does your blood sugar sit in the morning when you're fasting? Right now? I'm

Heidi Wickstrom 56:24
fasting. I'm at 85.

Scott Benner 56:25
That's amazing, right? Like, if you could achieve that throughout the day, then you wouldn't have to be so segmented with what like you said, you said something interesting earlier, that you said like, it was like it was gospel. You have to be regimented. Yeah, but my daughter's day is never the same twice.

Heidi Wickstrom 56:43
Yeah, what's her age two? I think I'm just you know, what? When I was her age, I was a mess.

Scott Benner 56:50
You were Yeah, but I'm saying her blood sugar super stable all the time. If she gets up in the morning and doesn't eat, it's fine. If she gets up in the morning and eats it's fine. Yesterday, yesterday, she had most for lunch. You know, which is terrible. Oh, no bones. Oh my god. It's like text. I don't even know what it is like it was like some bowl with like, beef and tortilla and like cola. Like it's a lot of food. Yeah. But she very easily could have said to me at lunchtime, I'm going to cut up a bunch of carrots. Like she's all over the place without sheets. Yeah. And she's always super stable. But I think it's because their settings are like rock solid. That's good. You don't I mean, I think yeah. See, this is interesting. Because you've had diabetes for a while. Is there is a party who's like, yeah, that's you, not me. You think that right?

Heidi Wickstrom 57:39
Um, no, I just think it's a different. I don't know, like, if I had a pump when I was younger, I don't you know, I don't know. You know, I mean, I just I don't know.

Scott Benner 57:51
No, I don't mean for you to like, go back in time and re

Heidi Wickstrom 57:55
know that. I'm trying to think like when I was that age. And I ate that way. I mean, like, if I ate that way now. Right? ate whatever I wanted. Whenever I wanted, I would definitely that would have to be all dialed in. But because I'm very, like, regimented and scheduled. And you know, I'm saying like, I don't have to dial it in as much because I don't really go off my path very much. Oh, no,

Scott Benner 58:19
absolutely. Yeah. And if that, by the way, if that works, I think that's amazing. You know, I'm not I'm not saying otherwise. I'm just saying for people who are listening. I think there's you don't have to eat, you know, very specifically like that. Yeah, for sure. It's one or the other. But I again, I firmly believe in whatever works is what Yeah, yeah. 100%. And now you're a one season five. That's amazing.

Heidi Wickstrom 58:42
Yeah, it was like five five and my daughter thought that was a little low. Especially because I had a problem. We don't listen to them. Yeah, I like got up one night and hit my head really hard on the dresser and like, it could have been really bad because

Scott Benner 58:57
you were low. Yeah. Oh my gosh, that's Oh, yeah.

Heidi Wickstrom 59:01
I would know is really bad. i And it's funny because I got God. God bless my husband, but he he gets panicky, which I don't blame him, but I can see it even though I can't say anything that inside my head even though I'm really low. I think to myself, like do just calm down. It's fine, but at least

Scott Benner 59:23
you're not thinking I could have chosen better.

Heidi Wickstrom 59:27
Like can you at least make me feel a little better? That'll be okay, cuz you look like you're crazy right now.

Scott Benner 59:32
He just doesn't want to raise those kids by himself. That's all

Heidi Wickstrom 59:34
but no, the next thing I know, I was sitting up on the edge of the bed. I guess I had already fallen. I didn't know I fell, right. And he's trying to shove orange juice down my throat. I'm like, oh, you know, and then I see him struggling with the glucagon and all I could say was back see me. I'm like back see me and I kept pointing to my bedroom, my my bedside table drawer, right? That's the only word that came out my mouth because I saw him like trying to do the glucose I was like, this is not going to happen.

Scott Benner 1:00:02
So you're gonna inject you with glucagon?

Heidi Wickstrom 1:00:05
Yeah. Because I was like, yeah, it was it was bad. And it definitely was From what I recall even though I was like, couldn't speak or anything. I saw what was happening. Does that make sense?

Scott Benner 1:00:16
Heidi? Either you're great at sex make a lot of money or he really loves you. I don't know what but he was in a pack.

Unknown Speaker 1:00:24
Maybe all three, yo, hey,

Scott Benner 1:00:26
nothing to say couldn't be all three.

Heidi Wickstrom 1:00:29
Anyway, he does he gets the vaccine. Yeah. And literally, like within, you know, 10 seconds. It's in my nose. And he felt better. And yeah, but he goes, you fell and I looked, and by the time I came back, oh, and then I was shivering and I was sweating. It was a whole thing. But by the time I could look in the mirror, I'm like, Oh, shit, like, oh, sorry to swear. Um, but I had a huge like, contusion on my head. Yeah, it was pretty easy. Yeah, you fell right there and hit your head on the dresser. And I'm like,

Scott Benner 1:00:57
oh, looking back. Do you have any idea what caused the low?

Heidi Wickstrom 1:01:01
I don't remember now. But I remembered then.

Scott Benner 1:01:07
Some short term memory loss. My memory,

Heidi Wickstrom 1:01:08
by the way is horrible. Like it used to be solid gold. Now it is horrible. There's

Scott Benner 1:01:14
going to be a guy comes on next month and record with me. It's got a lot of a lot of long term issues from diabetes probably grew up a lot like you did. And one of them he wants to talk about is like memory fog and memory loss he has.

Heidi Wickstrom 1:01:29
Yeah, that's the only thing I have not gone when Yeah, that's really someone. Well, besides No, I had an issue. I was pregnant, but I know we probably are done, but I have a lot of other stuff.

Scott Benner 1:01:39
I have a lot of other stuff. Alright, well, listen, we're already over on time a little bit because it's 20 minutes to get on. But what give me What's one more fun problem, you know, seriously, what did you what happened?

Unknown Speaker 1:01:51
What negative stuff?

Scott Benner 1:01:53
Yeah, maybe we should ask you Does anything good happen to you? You live a nice life. You're You're happy, right? You have good family? Like you're? You're doing hockey? I?

Heidi Wickstrom 1:02:02
Yeah, I can exercise. I mean, I have all my limbs.

Scott Benner 1:02:07
What did you? Well, listen, that's a real perspective. When you watched your father lose a leg, right?

Heidi Wickstrom 1:02:12
I know. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:02:14
Is there? Are you more of I guess, what am I trying to ask you like his attitude? A big part of it for you? You seem like you have a good attitude about it.

Heidi Wickstrom 1:02:27
Yeah, I mean, I don't, I've never gone. I mean, I think maybe I've had a couple of breakdowns in 40 years, where I'm like, this just isn't fair. And you know, but that's usually when I'm high. You know, like, it feels awful. And it won't come down and I'm hungry. You know, like one of those moments. Yeah. You're like, Why me? I just wanted to eat and I feel, you know, but no, otherwise, I'm like, it's really not that bad.

Scott Benner 1:02:52
diabetes, not that bad. Really not

Heidi Wickstrom 1:02:54
that bad. It's a t shirt. And I really keep most of it to myself. I mean, I you know, it's like a hidden disease. What do they call that? Like, no one sees it. So besides stuff on your body now, but

Scott Benner 1:03:06
well, your dad wasn't your dad wasn't telling anybody about it really wrote, right?

Heidi Wickstrom 1:03:10
No, yeah. No. So it's kind of it's just something you deal with personally. And? And then when really was

Scott Benner 1:03:16
no. And you said earlier? We never got around to it. But there's a lot of people in your life like that. Those kids have type one and you talk.

Heidi Wickstrom 1:03:23
Yeah, yeah. In fact, I feel like in the last few years, I I've gotten phone calls from friends will say you'll never believe it. My daughter was just diagnosed or my son was just diagnosed, and I'm the first person they call.

Scott Benner 1:03:35
What's the first thing you think to tell them? Oh, it's a great question. Oh, my questions have been great. Heidi, this one? There's no reason to just go out this one.

Heidi Wickstrom 1:03:51
I mean, I think they usually do all the talking. But

Scott Benner 1:03:53
Oh, so you're sort of like you listen, and then you say things like, look for a POM. Try to get a CGM. Don't worry.

Heidi Wickstrom 1:04:01
And they're usually already on top of that, you know, like there. Yeah. Because the chalk hospital here is really good. Okay. Children's Hospital.

Scott Benner 1:04:10
So I think they're looking for more like, community connection. Like people. Sure.

Heidi Wickstrom 1:04:15
Yeah. We have a big type one Facebook group and just in my, my city here. Really? Yeah. How many people kids we have parties. We hang out. We you know, it's fun.

Scott Benner 1:04:27
Yeah, I tried to rival my Facebook group it what's going on here? It's just for locals. All right. But the weather's nice there. Right? It's yeah, Southern California. Yeah, you might want to have like a diabetes celebrity at one time to talk at one of the events. Great. Or maybe if you can't find one of them, and that's coming. I just want to go somewhere warm or it's not here. But that's pretty much all like, Yeah, you

Heidi Wickstrom 1:04:52
should probably come here. Pretty nice. It's I just got back from Hawaii, so I can't complain.

Scott Benner 1:04:56
Wow, it's June 21. here and I walked outside and that's it. Go Okay, the humidity is here already great.

Heidi Wickstrom 1:05:02
Terrible. Like Scott, you'll never believe it. But it's June 21. Here too.

Scott Benner 1:05:05
I know. But this is not for you. It's for the people listening when they hear it. And it's like, oh, sorry, November and they're like, why is he talking about it humid?

Heidi Wickstrom 1:05:14
Yeah, I'm talking to Hawaii. She's like, why is she going to Hawaii and Christmas? Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:05:17
exactly. That's it. I look at you just waiting around like a lion tries to pounce on me. If you make a mistake. I'm going to call this grandma Heidi, if you don't watch it. Oh, I don't even know what to call this episode.

Heidi Wickstrom 1:05:32
You'll find some tidbit that you like, move on. It's not a pig bovine

Scott Benner 1:05:36
is not a pig. That's pretty good. Right? Look if you're producing good job. Well, I do really appreciate you doing. I enjoyed your note when you said, when you filled out the thing and it says, you know, tell me a little bit about why you want to come on the show. And you're just like, Oh, no. Like, I can almost hear you mumbling and you're writing and it's gonna it'll be good, like, people diabetes will help somebody like, right? You'll make it work. I actually think there's a sentence in there. That is like, Scott, I'll make it work. Don't worry, it'll be fine. That's like, Okay. And then I had to put you off once, which I want to apologize for

Heidi Wickstrom 1:06:16
now. It's fine. I'm sure there was someone bigger and better.

Scott Benner 1:06:19
And my son went on a trip that needed my attention. And I had to clear a week away. And it was during your time, so I was actually out on that coast at the time. Oh, well, up in Washington morn like Seattle ish. But yeah, yeah. I appreciate very much. I know it sucks to have something moved like that. No, it's fine. But you paid me back this morning with your technology. So sure. Did we're even now.

Heidi Wickstrom 1:06:42
Now I have to go for a walk. See?

Scott Benner 1:06:45
Yeah, I listened that people don't understand because it wasn't recorded that your idea was to go for a walk and talk at the same time, which I've done with people before. But you just I don't know. The cell service just wasn't what must be. Yeah, I missed your headphones. Maybe it was your headphones. Actually. I don't know. You. Listen, you could afford to go to Hawaii. Let's replace that stuff. Okay, did

Heidi Wickstrom 1:07:07
I just hop on my peloton. Now?

Scott Benner 1:07:10
Is this some like white lady like, brag what's going on here? I'm just trying to be funny. I love you guys.

Heidi Wickstrom 1:07:18
I think everybody can walk. If you have legs. Go for a walk people. That is my advice today.

Scott Benner 1:07:22
10 minutes that your heart rate up three times a week. Isn't that the vibe that they say? Just 10 minutes? at a very minimum, get your heart rate up for 10 minutes, three times a week. And that's the very minimum but and that's super easy to accomplish with

Heidi Wickstrom 1:07:35
walking. Yeah. Or if you're married anyway.

Scott Benner 1:07:38
Just yesterday. Oh, I think you were saying sex. I was thinking arguing.

Heidi Wickstrom 1:07:42
Sorry. I was being clean.

Scott Benner 1:07:46
I guess you could do that without being married to right.

Heidi Wickstrom 1:07:49
That's true. I'm sorry. I was just for the children out there.

Scott Benner 1:07:52
There are kids. Mary, I have to be reminded once in a while the children listen.

Heidi Wickstrom 1:07:57
Yeah. Well, especially when my mom friends. If I say I'm on here, guess who's gonna listen their children?

Scott Benner 1:08:03
Oh, are they really? Oh, so. So So and Heidi jumped on here to tell us our legs, you're gonna get your, like the Ghost of Christmas Future over? Ooh. No, no, that won't work. Not happening to me. It's not gonna you know what the truth is, is as really genuinely sad as what has happened, you know, to your father. Yeah, that outcome is going to be incredibly uncommon moving forward for people who have Yes, technology and the idea of how insulin really works. And it's just a it's a bygone era. Not that I guess it couldn't happen. No, it is, but it doesn't need to happen anymore. And it's it's certainly not going to happen as frequently as it used to. So

Heidi Wickstrom 1:08:44
and in fact, that's that's reminds me that's probably exactly what I tell people that are first diagnosis that Oh, my God, all this technology. They're going to be fine. You know?

Scott Benner 1:08:52
Yeah, I agree. I don't know why the serious episodes make me feel the most jokey. But obviously, it makes you uncomfortable. Probably. I'm not making light of.

Heidi Wickstrom 1:09:02
I'm like that too, though. I always use humor. Instead of

Scott Benner 1:09:05
Yeah, well, we were a real great match here because we were both doing the same thing. Like no one was being an adult. While we were talking about like the sound of circular saws and hospitals we've got that is really a great story. It is a good story. It's odd timing. All right.

Hold on. I'd like to thank Heidi for coming on the show and telling her story. And of course, thank touched by type one for sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast. I would like to remind you to check them out on Facebook, Instagram, and it touched by type one.org. Also, remember that I also want to remind you that I have a website juicebox podcast.com and a Facebook page with over 18,000 members Juicebox Podcast, type one diabetes, the Facebook page is completely free. I just reached And we've found out that people charge for that. There's no charge to be in the Facebook group. Just go use it, enjoy it, meet other people who have type one for adults and parents. There's a beautiful little hodgepodge in there. You might like it

I wish you could be in my head right now. I'm trying to decide if I'm going to go back and edit out where I went live bla bla in between those. I'm not I'm leaving then I don't care. I mean, it's not that I don't care. It's just, I don't know how to put it to you. It's not that I don't care. It's that I. I don't think it matters. Like I don't think you're right now going, Oh, how unprofessional of Scott. I just don't think you mind if you don't mind. Doesn't matter, mind over matter. I don't think that's what that means. But anyway,