#1250 Resilience in Four Parts - 4

July 11, 2024Scott Benner

Psychological Impacts of Diabetes with Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT

Erica Forsythe discusses trauma and resilience in diabetes management. They explore the importance of connection, vulnerability, and critical awareness in overcoming adversity. Offers valuable insights and practical advice for those living with diabetes.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends and welcome to episode 1250 of the Juicebox Podcast.

For those of you who have been enjoying the resilience series, this is the fourth and final part. And if you're just tripping over now go back there's three other parts. This is resilience in four parts with Erica Forsythe, Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist in person with type one diabetes. Check out Erica at Erica forsythe.com. I know that Facebook has a bad reputation. But please give the private Facebook group for the Juicebox Podcast. A healthy once over Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes. The group now has 47,000 members in it, it gets 150 new members a day, just completely free. And at the very least you can watch other people talk about diabetes, and everybody is welcome type one type two gestational loved ones, everyone is welcome. Go up into the feature tab of the private Facebook group. And there you'll see lists upon lists of all of the management series that are available to you for free in the Juicebox Podcast, becoming a member of that group. I really think it will help you.

Touched by type one.org touched by type one is sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast and I'm going to be speaking at their big in person event in Orlando, Florida coming up very soon. There are still tickets available. They're absolutely free. It's a wonderful event touched by type one.org. Go to the program's tab and get yourself your free tickets. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the ever since CGM. And sure all CGM systems use Transcutaneous sensors that are inserted into the skin and lasts seven to 14 days. But the Eversense sensor is inserted completely under the skin lasting six months ever since cgm.com/juicebox. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the contour next gen blood glucose meter, learn more and get started today at contour next one.com/juicebox. Erica, we're back. This is the fourth part of our resilience series. You and I were just talking Off mic a little bit about this first little bit is is it going to stay here in this episode? Are we going to put it in the end of the third one? So let's get started and just see how it all flows first. Yes, that

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 2:43
sounds great. Okay.

Scott Benner 2:45
Why did you say that? Like what what about this part that's coming up made you go? Ooh, should this have been in the third one?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 2:51
Great. That's good question. Yeah, I think because in our last episode, and the previous episode that we recorded, we were reviewing kind of the different layers, so to speak of trauma, whether it was a first, you know, a one event capital T trauma, a kind of repeated pattern of small t trauma, or were you experiencing pain as a result of doing something for the first time. And then this next part, I think we were debating whether to include it last time or not, because we had talked about a lot of different things is really thinking about that the formal diagnosis of PTSD, Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, in response to a diagnosis of diabetes or any other chronic illness. That's why I'm wondering, would it be fit better? In our previous recording

Scott Benner 3:38
session? Okay, so we'll see. Yeah, we'll jump into it. We'll see how it flows. Okay, go ahead.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 3:42
So we have discussed and research has proven that PTSD or trauma or long term adversity does impact your systems of your body. And that does increase your risk of health issues, right, and no mental health issues physical illness and mental health issues. But if we look at that, inversely, medical diagnosis of illness or disease, and we talking about cardiovascular disease, lung disease, cancer or autoimmune diseases, obviously we know that can be traumatic and leads to true experiences of PTSD. And as I thought it would be important to recognize research that was done by Donald Edmondson in 2014. And his research showed and highlighted that an estimated 12 to 25% of people diagnosed with a life threatening illness go on to develop PTSD. And so in that category, he created what is called the enduring somatic threat model of PTSD. So ESD for short, so I thought it'd be interesting for us to kind of understand what does that mean, what does that look like and how is it different from typical PTSD Okay, yeah, okay. Okay, so here's some differences. So, PTSD results from a discrete and external event that we've talked about the war example, we've talked about, you know, whether it's an abuse or a one time rape incident or assault. So the source of that threat is external. And it's important to know that has a beginning and an end. Okay. So with the enduring somatic threat model that results from the diagnosis and treatment of a life threatening illness, such as we know, cancer, heart attack, diabetes, and the source of the threat is internal versus this external thing that happened to you one time, it's an internal somatic threat that is entering and without a definite end. So he really, through his research, recognize that kind of validating all the things that we've been talking about, that you can experience PTSD from this threat that is internal, and doesn't have an ending. So those are kind of the major differences of kind of classic PTSD versus this ESP model. Okay, should I keep going?

Scott Benner 6:08
Yeah, I Okay, I just want to make sure I understand the internal somatic threat. So I just asked our our chat GPT overlord about it. Let's see, the concept is often associated with various physical sensations or symptoms that the individual interprets as signals of a serious medical condition or health threat. Internal somatic threats can trigger anxiety, stress, fear, particularly in individuals with heightened health anxiety, or somatic symptom disorders, key aspects, physical sensations, perception of harm, physiological impact, behavioral responses, underlying conditions. Okay. I just wanted to like, give that a little more of a definition. But yeah, no,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 6:50
that's good. So the occurrence and the time perspective is significant, right, because we have this past, present and future experience. So from the diabetes perspective, you have the diagnosis, and we talked about how that is, can be a capital T, one time event, trauma in and of itself. And then we have the past, present medical intervention, and the fear of when we talk about future recurrence that can be we often think about, like, you know, you go through cancer, you go through the treatment, you are in remission, but then you're living with this anticipation of future recurrence. But I'm also I know, this can happen with diabetes of, for example, having a seizure, right. And then you're experiencing all of these symptoms, and doing your best to prevent it. And we'll get into that a little bit more. So your experience is hyper vigilance, where we think about hyper vigilance with PTSD. And we talked about this example, in one of the previous episodes, have you hear that the boom of the motorcycle blast or a car like, what is that like backfiring, and that instantly, if you have PTSD from war combat, that sound instantly takes your mind and body back to that one time past incident of being in combat. In this E at the ESP model, the vigilance is to the internal sensation or symptom in one's body. So if we're going back to the seizure example, you start to either you see the low, you see the arrows, maybe starting to go diagonally down, you might start to feel the low symptom. And you're hyper vigilant to that. And then you start to experience the anxiety and the fear around oh my gosh, am I going to have a seizure? That also contributes to your decisions traces? Can you be alone? Can you go out in a car? Can you go to public places? Do you let yourself go below a certain number because you are near that number?

Scott Benner 8:46
I interviewed a woman the other day, who's had diabetes for like nine years. As soon as she was diagnosed as an adult, they just gave her insulin. Roy didn't tell her what she was doing with it. And this one time, she's sort of alone in our house or husbands with their kids somewhere else. She starts getting a low, you know, goes in the kitchen, eats a bunch of stuff sits on the floor is panicking sitting on the floor. She talks about it like it happened yesterday. It was like eight years ago, and she still won't try an insulin pump because what she told me was I figured out how to control this now I don't want to change anything. But what I felt like I was hearing from her was I was slightly anxious person before diabetes, but then I got it. And then this low happen, and now I am scared for anything to happen. That is not something that I feel like I'm in control of. She's in therapy trying to figure it out like consciously she understands it, but she can't make good decisions for herself. Anyway, like that seems like what you're talking about here to me. That contour next gen blood glucose meter is the meter that we use here. Arden has one with her at all times. I have one downstairs in the kitchen just in case I want to check my blood sugar and or Arden has them at school, they're everywhere that she is contour next one.com/juicebox test strips. And the meters themselves may be less expensive for you in cash out of your pocket than you're paying currently through your insurance for another meter, you can find out about that and much more my link contour next one.com/juicebox Contour makes a number of fantastic and accurate meters. And their second chance test strips are absolutely my favorite part. What does that mean? If you go to get some blood, and maybe you touch it and I don't know, stumble with your hand and like slip off and go back, it doesn't impact the quality or accuracy of the test so you can hit the blood not good enough, come back, get the rest without impacting the accuracy of the test. That's right, you can touch the blood, come back and get the rest. And you're gonna get an absolutely accurate test. I think that's important because we all stumble and fumble at times. That's not a good reason to have to waste a test trip. And with a contour. Next Gen. You won't have to contour next one.com forward slash juicebox. You're gonna get a great reading without having to be perfect. How many times have you thought it's time to change my CGM? I just changed it. And then you look and realize I got it's been 14 days already a week, week and a half. Feels like I just did this. Well, you'll never feel like that with the Eversense CGM. Because ever since is the only long term CGM with six months of real time glucose readings giving you more convenience, confidence and flexibility. So if you're one of those people who has that thought that I just did this, didn't I? Why? Well, I don't have to do this again right now. If you don't like that feeling, give Eversense a try. Because we've ever since you'll replace the sensor just once every six months via a simple in office visit. Ever since cgm.com/juice box to learn more and get started today. Would you like to take a break? Take a shower you can with ever since without wasting a sensor. don't want anybody to know for your big day. Take it off. No one asked to know have your sensor has been failing before 10 or 14 days. That won't happen with ever since? Have you ever had a sensor get torn off while you're pulling off your shirt? That won't happen with ever since. So no sensor to get knocked off. It's as discreet as you want it to be. It's incredibly accurate. And you only have to change it once every six months. Ever since cgm.com/juicebox.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 12:37
Podcast? Yes, it's the hyper vigilance, the hyper arousal that the mood shifts the cognition around like I know, I know why I'm doing this or choosing to not do the certain thing. But the fear is keeping them paralyzed. Because you're trying to do anything you can to avoid that trauma.

Scott Benner 12:57
Oh, she told me that her husband will text during the day and ask how her blood sugar is. But he doesn't really care about her blood sugar. He cares about her mood. He attaches to how her blood sugar's doing. And it's not because if she's high, she's cloudy or if she's low, she's shaky. It's because Oh, I didn't you're actually tying together that conversation for me when this Okay, all right, I got it.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 13:21
Right. So do I feel safe and secure? Because I'm I'm going to make up a number 150 or 200 and stable? Or am I feeling really nervous? Because I'm below a certain number, right? Yeah, those numbers are arbitrary. People who have this experience that it is really common when they have a traumatic incident around insulin and particularly low blood sugar seizures. They can't figure out why it happened. So then you're going to be super vigilant to try and protect and prevent it from happening again. The

Scott Benner 13:52
other thing she talked about, is that something Wow, where were you yesterday when I was talking to her? She was talking about the she needs to know why it's happening. It's very important to her to know why what's happening is happening. Oh, that's interesting. Okay, okay, cool. Wow, look at me. I'm learning. Yes. Yes. Go ahead.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 14:11
What else? Okay, so, in the case of what we're calling the, or how Dr. Edmondson says, the medically caused PTSD, we're considering in terms of an ESP model avoidance not only precludes emotional integration of the trauma, so this that means like, okay, so avoiding the emotional integration meaning, okay, you starting at diagnosis, like what is this mean? I don't know, and wanting to maybe even deny what this actually means. And this is, you know, any kind of chronic illness diagnosis applies to this, to then the actual dealing with it. Right, you might go through a period of shock, denial, not quite sure what to do, how to manage Who do you tell, do you keep it to yourself? Are you including people in this journey? And also, the actual treatment, right, like you might start avoiding, because of this traumatic experience that you have, you're avoiding the doctor's appointments. You're avoiding treating, you know, kind of insulin management or any kind of medication management for the illness. Yeah. So it has this, you know, replica, we've talked about this again, but really try I'm trying to do it from this ESP model, how this can into effect your experience with your diagnosis. Okay.

Scott Benner 15:27
Yeah, I'm so interested, are you going to? Is there I don't want to read ahead. Are we going to find out that there are big things like, big T, little T in this scenario to like, Are there going to be because what I'm sitting here thinking is, I had a recent conversation with an endocrinologist and we talked a lot about how some people just don't get it, or they're not motivated, or they don't try or whatever. And I'm sitting here thinking, is that just maybe their situation did they have or upbringing? Did they have an alcoholic parent? Like, did they did they have, you know, two or three things off the ACES list? That is it a money thing is that they live in a dirty house, and they don't know where to put their stuff down? Like you don't? I mean, like, is it more? It's got to be more entailed than just I don't know, I met a guy today, two o'clock, and he don't seem to care. Like nobody doesn't care about staying alive, right? You don't I mean, okay, okay. Okay. All right. Good. Yes. I'm sorry. So

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 16:23
I think that the challenge, like let's say, if you were the end, Joe, and you were presented with the case, such as someone who was avoiding, treating, managing their diabetes in the way that it's expected, or, you know, kind of doing the bare minimum, to stay alive and be healthy. There's, there's always more to it. So I think the challenge is when you let's say you had this case in front of you, is it is that person in a season of diabetes distress. Are they in a season of diabetes, burnout? Do they has their distress manifested itself becoming depression? Is it because right, everyone, most everyone in their lifetime is going to experience either diabetes, distress or burnout, if you're living our caregiving, it just is natural and normal? Yeah. But with the difference that we've talked about before is if you are still functioning pretty well, in your relationships in your job, and other aspects and areas of your life, then that is diabetes distress, we know that it evolves and becomes presents itself depression when your impairment, your functioning, is impaired across multiple areas of your life. Okay. So then or is it you are experiencing medical induced PTSD? Is this the way that you are interacting and experiencing your chronic illness? Is that because of your experience of previous aces of previous trauma? Is it you grew up in a very stable household, but over time, for whatever reason, the genetics of your brain, the genetic, the generational history, other things that are going on your life, you get this diagnosis, and you are experiencing it and living with it? As if you had PTSD? And to his case, saying, yes, you might have with this enduring somatic threat model? Yeah, to answer your question. Yes, it could be all of these things. It's usually layered. And it's called and that's why it's complicated to to help people when they are struggling with their diabetes,

Scott Benner 18:30
and may be difficult to talk about. Because when people it seems to me, when I see a group of people together, often the people who have awareness about what they're struggling with, look weak to other people. Does that make sense to you? When I'm saying like, when somebody's like, you know, I had this happen to me. And I know that's why I feel this way and I'm trying to get past it. And then people are like snowflake. Meanwhile, the person saying snowflake, they had stuff happening to them, too. They're just keeping it down and not talking about it. You're not obviously a weak person to understand what's happening to you. But I think that when they try to talk about it in a world where everyone's not on the same page, they come off as like a hippie or complaining or like that, do you know what I mean by that? Like so it does that make it difficult to like voice this like, where do you find a safe? Oh my god, am I gonna say safe space? Yes, you are Jesus, cliquish? Look what you've done to me. Where are you going to find a safe space to open up about that so that you can get some support and get yourself through the next piece? All right, there's no question in there. I just want to say that out loud. That

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 19:35
was that was yes. Yeah. Yes. Because there there is. And I think what you were kind of looking around in the area of like, are you using this to justify or even make excuses for why you act a certain way and for pull this out in a bigger perspective? Yeah, go ahead.

Scott Benner 19:52
Are you just onto something here and you're figuring out what's going on with you? You know what I mean? Yes,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 19:56
yes. And so there's there's a difference and that's depends on where you are. in that journey, right of, of understanding,

Scott Benner 20:02
I'm gonna say right here in case you ever listen to this, I have this struggle with my wife, because I have you see it with me like I Aha, sometimes I'm like, oh my god, like, right? And I start like understanding something. If I say that to Kelly, sometimes she'll go, don't make up an excuse. And I'm like, Oh, she wants me to apologize here for something or she wants me to admit something or something like that. And I'm in the middle of going, Hey, I used to be here, but I think I'm here now with my understanding. And oh, and she's like, No, no, we haven't gotten Oh, I see what's happening. Okay, like, so she, she and I are having some sort of a thing doesn't matter what it is. And I kind of get my thinking together and elevate past it. But she's still back there where she might have been, like, I told you this as what was happening, and you said it wasn't. And so she wants to finish this. And so if I try to just jump past it, she kind of goes, like, don't make up an excuse. And I'm like, oh, no, this is not an excuse. Like, I've had like a real revelation just now. And oh, okay. I'm sorry, that was probably too personal. Sorry.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 21:07
No, it's good. I think you're giving shedding light into the Yep. The process of understanding and then integration of that understanding, and then how it impacts your communication, your relationships, all of that, because

Scott Benner 21:19
what we're going to talk about next to me feels like this is where it starts. So I'm sorry, I'm putting the cart ahead of the horse a little bit. But yes, yeah, go ahead.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 21:27
Yes. So I think, and we can we can skip, do you want to move into the resilience piece?

Speaker 1 21:33
Sure. Yeah, that's fine. Okay. Because I think I think we've we've

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 21:37
understood and highlighted the connection between peace to PTSD, chronic illness and vice versa. And in the world of diabetes in general. There's also tons of research around adversity, and trauma and how that connects to diabetes diagnoses in general. Okay. So

Scott Benner 21:56
so we've talked to all about this. Now we know what it is, and we know how it's hurting us. What do we what do we do about oh,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 22:01
what yeah, now what? How do we become more resilient in the face of this understanding of how trauma impacts us? Okay. So one of the biggest things that we want to spend a lot of time on is connection. And one of all of the research says that one of the biggest protective measures and things to address and identify is your connection. Who is your support system? Where do you feel seen, validated and that you matter? Where do you feel safe? Who are you connected to in a way that feels like it's a reciprocal relationship? So those things I encourage you to think about? If you're feeling if you're struggling and feeling like, Okay, I'm stuck, I understand I have this trauma. And now you're telling me to connect to people? What do I how do I do that? Yeah. Okay. So when in one of Brene, Brown's books, the Gifts of Imperfection, where she focused, she's done 20 years of research, and out of this research, she picks up themes, and she identified five things that are the most common factors of resilient people. Okay, so I'm gonna list these and then we're gonna gonna go into like, Okay, how do I, what do I do with this? How do I get into these, how to become more support, okay, I'll just go, they are resourceful and have good problem solving skills. Number two, they are more likely to seek help. Number three, they hold the belief that they can do something that will help them to manage their feelings and to cope. Number four, they have social support available to them. Number five, they are connected with others, such as family and friends. Okay, so one of the themes, there are connection, resourcefulness hope. Now, that's really hard to do. If you are living in a place of stuckness, right, because of your trauma because of maybe depressive thoughts and feelings, maybe because of anxiety. So it's, it's hard to make the sleep. So I'm hoping that through our conversation, we can kind of shed some light into how to get to that place. Okay, so duct. So going back to Dr. Perry, who I've referenced a ton he also agrees with that the best predictor of your current functioning is your current connection. And he says independent of how bad things were in the past, how bad your trauma was adversity, how bad things are right now. If you are in connection, you are in an environment where you will have many opportunities for healing. He talks about how you might you might see the best therapist in the world once a week, and that will help you process some of your past pain and trauma. But if you aren't in connection and seeing other people in really in a reciprocal relationship, it's really challenging to get better. Okay. So with that,

Scott Benner 24:57
I'm sorry. Yes. If you don't see me People are in a reciprocal relationship where you don't have one, or both. Both. Okay, because

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 25:04
that gets into loneliness. Oftentimes, when people have experienced, will pretty much I'd say all the time, when people experienced trauma, they experience a sadness that can lead to a sense of loneliness. And oftentimes when people and we and we, that's why, you know, there's people find support and connection and Facebook groups, and we're so hungry for that, because people are lonely, there's a risk to that, which we'll get into, right. But people experienced loneliness as a result of a diagnosis of a chronic illness because nobody understands it initially. And when people so loneliness, what you just got into what you just reflected, Scott was really interesting, because loneliness is a feeling of sadness, due to perceived lack of companionship, friendship, or any social bond or relationship. So it's, it's a perceived lack of reciprocal relationship, right? So if you enter in to a conversation with someone, and you're anticipating to get something back from them that you didn't, you're gonna you feel lonely. Yeah. Right. Like, like, Oh, I feel I feel really close to this, even the checker at the grocery store. But maybe the checker is having a hard day, and they keep their head down. Like, oh, I don't I don't, I didn't feel like I had that connection that we used to do. That's a really minor example. Okay, so because when you're lonely, you're in self preservation mode, which prevents healthy social interactions. So you're in that it's like this vicious cycle, right? Where if you're feeling like, no one understands me, I'm suffering. I'm going to preserve my myself. So I'm not going to engage in conversation or connection with people. And then that perpetuates that that perceived lack of friendship and connection.

Scott Benner 26:57
You can feel lonely, but still be around people, right?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 27:00
It's different from alone, right? Like you can, you can be, you know, the common example is like the billionaire, and everyone wants to be their friend, and he's talking to people, or she's talking to people all day long. But she can go home and feel lonely. Yeah. Right.

Scott Benner 27:17
So I'm having just so you know, before we move forward, I'm, I feel very sad right now, because there's a person that I'm connected to who I've seen in crisis, like two years ago, now, they're doing much better now. But I was there during their crisis. And he kept saying that people don't care about him. But he was full. He was in a room full of people who were trying to help him. And I think I realized, over the last couple of years that he had put himself in such a position with all these people, that they all had some trouble with him to the point where he felt like they didn't care about him anymore. Like, and I think he knew he put himself in that position. But yet he didn't do it willfully. If I look at that aces list, he's got five of those contributing factors. He was on this collision course probably since he was five years old. And to watch it as an adult, happened to him. Like as you're talking, I'm thinking about him, I feel I almost cried a minute ago, just like having a memory about him. Because I thought, Jesus, this is all about how he grew up. He's a good person, he loves these people like you don't he mean? Like he didn't, he didn't do any of these things maliciously. And it's really, really something and I'm watching him work out of it. Now. I'm proud of him. But it's taken a long time, to interesting to, to reflect back on it just now. Also, I can't cry in the middle of this. I did tell you

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 28:42
know, I saw you going you were in a place of reflection, I could tell

Scott Benner 28:46
I needed to let it out so that I could keep listening to you. And talking so sorry. But no,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 28:52
that's good. But yeah, and I have to bring up this I wasn't going to this is from a quote from Brene Brown that I wasn't going to talk about today. But I have it up that I have to just quote right now because it summarizes exactly what you were just describing with your friend she says out of our woundedness we protect ourselves by being as unlikable as possible. So we beat people to the punch from hurting us. And then we ensure our demise because the thing that we need to overcome our woundedness is relationship, but the risk of hurt and the risk of having the old tapes reactivated is too great. So that is how loneliness is this kind of vicious cycle, right? Where you're trying, you're preserving yourself. You're gonna end up because you're you're acting out of your woundedness your trauma, all the things that you were have been exposed to in life. You ensure the demise because you're just gonna be like, nope, nope, I'm not gonna engage and I don't want to get hurt. Just

Scott Benner 29:51
simply said, I'm gonna make sure you break up with me before I break up with you before you break up with me. That kind of thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that can For sure, yeah, you see that happen a lot. But, but that's the same idea. So I, oh, that's so horrible. She's okay. Or do you know where that quote is from

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 30:11
that is from it's probably from the Gifts of Imperfection, okay? That she in one of her? Yes, I'll have to look exactly or it's from her podcasts talking about her book. But it was around, you know, the theme of, of loneliness. And she also, she also quotes John Cacioppo who I can't remember if we referenced this in the beginning, who did a bunch of work and research on loneliness. And he says, loneliness is like an iceberg. It goes deeper than we, then we can see. And loneliness is a better predictor of early death, and smoking, obesity, cancer, it just is another reflection of all the things we've been talking about that everything matters, and everything is connected. And so if we've experienced trauma, we can feel lonely, it can become the self perpetuating the vicious cycle, where you feel like nobody understands you don't have any kind of reciprocal relationship. And that is really hard to then hear me say, I just want to spend, you know, it's why I'm spending some time here, I understand the challenge or cycle, all you have to do is just get connected to people to become more resilient. So it's really important to understand if you're kind of feeling connected, or an agreement with some of these things that you are lonely to understand how, what is the source of the loneliness? And has that manifested itself into depression? Or is it a response to trauma? Is it a response to a loss, which we talked about diabetes, there is a loss, right? Yeah. Did you have a move? Did you change jobs, it can be something that we owe a major stressor, like a change in relationship, a change in Job, a change in your environment, we all have moments of loneliness in our lives. But if we don't pause and look around and note that that's happening, it can very quickly develop into a prolonged issue and challenge. Okay, do

Scott Benner 32:13
you think there's a spectrum of this? Like, we're talking about these kind of big examples of people having like big problems, but could people be going through this oil, high on a smaller scales and not seeing big problems? So they're not aware of it? Like, do you think that some variation of this happens to all of us?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 32:33
Yes, okay. Yes. So we all we are human, we are, we are created and built to be in connection and relationship. That's kind of an understanding. Consequently, we also because we have this human need to connect and relate, because of life, and stress and change, we are going to experience moments of loneliness. It's not abnormal to have that. But if we continue, I'm thinking like you, there's a move, you move cities, states, and you're going to experience some loneliness initially, but maybe because of other factors going on in your life, it's hard to start reaching out connect, or

Scott Benner 33:14
you don't even notice it right away. Maybe that's right. Yeah. Feels like Oh, I'm so busy. I can't meet anybody or something like that. And you're lonely, but you don't I call was I know, Cole was lonely when he went to Atlanta. And I asked him about it constantly. And he always said, No, but I don't believe that he wasn't honestly. So you know? Yes.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 33:33
And it takes, it takes time. Like if it if it's one of those external, you know, changes, it takes time to adjust. But even in that space, to get connected with people is hard. And that's where that the vulnerability piece comes in. So what do you do? If you think, okay, gosh, I'm lonely. Oftentimes, they say, you know, a lot of people will say, well just go out and meet people go to the group things meet, join groups online, those things can help. But it really, if it's become a struggle for a long period of time, the duration of your experience of feeling lonely has been so long, and it's impacting all your functioning. That's when it's time to say when did why did I start to become lonely? What was the kind of the circumstance that triggered this experience? And kind of start to unpack that, and then you start to kind of relearn how to connect, trust, relate and be vulnerable with people. And it's a journey. It's a process, it's hard

Scott Benner 34:35
to find people even jive with sometimes, you know, like sometimes finding people is not the problem finding the right people's the problem. And how do you do that? Even especially as an adult once you're working and everything it's, you know, I'm sorry? You're painting a hopeless picture.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 34:52
Okay, okay, but we're gonna come we're gonna Yes, great work. Okay. So how can you support We now know Okay, those are the factors of resilient people. Now, how do you develop those factors? How do you develop resilience? Now, one of the things that Brene Brown, and I know I've mentioned it a ton is the vulnerability piece. And she defines vulnerability as experiencing uncertainty, risk and emotional exposure. Now, if you're operating from a place of grieving trauma, you're like, Heck no, am I going to go and be vulnerable? Because I don't feel safe. That and that, again, perpetuates itself. Yeah. So understanding that I love this, this quote that she says, if we are brave enough, often enough, we are going to fail. And this is the physics of vulnerability. So if you're in this place of like loneliness, and you're like, I can't risk anything, I don't want to be winded. I'm not going to be vulnerable, you stay there. But if we lean into as a society as a culture, that we are going to make mistakes, we are going to fail. But we have to take this risk to be to expose ourselves,

Scott Benner 36:12
because you're failing now. So you might as well fail moving forward and see if something doesn't work out. Yeah, if I stand here, and I don't move, this is always going to be like this. If I move forward, it might still be like this, but at least I can keep moving forward. And then one day, oh, my God, this work this time, but it's never going to work. Sitting on your sofa, I guess is the way to put it. Right. Like you gotta get up and go. Yes,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 36:35
yeah, yes. So how do you how do you do that? How do you get up and go? Okay, so these four things, according to Brene, brown, is the first thing is to develop hope. Now, if you're if you have depression, it's one of the key symptoms and experiences is despair. So again, we're holding these things in like, Okay, if you are experiencing depressive anxiety, traumatic symptoms and behaviors, there needs to be a component of treatment of, you know, real, professional help in conjunction with these other things. Okay. So developing hope. And oftentimes, when you've talked about this, you've had, you've always had hope and positive mindset. Is that because of your genes, maybe, but it's also a choice, I think we often think of like, it's a feeling like, Oh, I feel really hopeful today, but it's a joy. Yeah. And psychologist, Dr. Schneider says, There are three steps to that you got to set goals that are realistic, you have to plan towards those goals, and then have the knowledge and the understanding that you're going to achieve them. But with the caveat that you're going to fail, there's going to be moments of disappointment, and increasing that tolerance, to the disappointment is part of that journey. So I think so often, we when we're feeling stuck, and hopeless, it's hard to say, Okay, today, I'm gonna get out of bed and brush my teeth. Like, what's the point? Right? And, and some days, you might, you might not get out of bed and brush your teeth. But setting that first goal of like, I'm gonna get out of bed, I'm going to brush my teeth, and I'm going to change out of the shirt I was wearing yesterday to shirt I'm wearing today. Yeah, that's, that's a goal. That's a plan. And know you're going to do it with with the understanding that you might fail. And that's okay. Some of the days,

Scott Benner 38:25
my son's been having these conversations with me about time and memory. And I was talking to him the other day, and I said, you know, everything you're telling me really makes me think over and over again, that life is just now it's a super simple thing to say. But like, if I'm not actually remembering my memories, exactly right to begin with, right? You don't mean that that means that in its best moment, that memory is when it was happening. And so that means that right now is my bet is my new best moment, I'm going to continue to have new best moments, I can't live in the future. Although I can I can set up hope for the future. I definitely can't live in the past, because the past isn't even exactly how you remember it to begin with. So now is life. That idea of like, what's gonna get me up and get me moving to me is I don't want my life to be sitting here. I would just much rather die trying. I guess. Like that's sort of I know, it seems like too heavy handed. But it's I mean, it's right. It's a it's a common saying, like, I just want to get moving and then see what happens. If it doesn't go well. It's no worse than sitting here not trying, in my mind. And you're saying that there are going to be some people in that in a situation that is so maybe dire. They're going to need professional help to get back to that idea.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 39:39
Yes, yes. And sometimes even that's when made them medication could be beneficial to antidepressants and I you know, anxiety medication to get you back to that baseline, right. Oftentimes, I think we think about medication is like, Oh no, it's gonna be this lifetime thing that I need, but most Often when psychologists psychiatrists prescribe medication, it's to help people get back to that place of being able to have hope to get up and brush their teeth and get out of bed. Yeah, okay, right. Yep. Okay, so having hope, which is the choice, it's a way of thinking. The second thing. This is, again, these are ways to help, how to become more resilient. Number two, use critical awareness to combat societal pressures. So societal pressures, this means evaluating the media that you observe, you read you intake and consume, and the expectation is that it communicates. So this is really a critical piece, because from the moment you're born, and now to present day social media, TV, back in the day was like commercials right? magazine covers, right. Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah. When I grew up, it was like, Yeah, you're you're not the magazine cover. But it's all of this input. And messaging, that you are not good enough, unless you look this way, buy this thing, do this exercise. Eat this way. Yeah. It's really easy, though, when you're lonely or feeling hopeless, or in despair, to scroll to be influenced, and be influenced by the societal pressures. So this is where, you know, we we talked about the pros and cons of any kind of diabetes online community, it could really help decrease that feeling of isolation. Yeah, and find support. But you also if you're finding that you're looking at this and scrolling and saying, Well, I can't become it, I can't get a 6.2. And I am not a good enough caregiver. I'm not good enough diabetic, I'm not a good enough Pre-Bolus. Or that messaging becomes really easily ingrained. If you are not aware of how that is influencing your mindset. Okay, the

Scott Benner 42:02
scrolling ruins everything. By the way access to access, I can't believe I'm saying this. Yeah. Some access ruins. Yeah. Like, look how my examples are not going to be palatable for some people. But this social media has ruined boobs for me. Like it was used to be so exciting to see a lady and now it's just not anymore. You're like, oh, yeah, look, this one's breastfeeding in the Walmart, like, hit like, you know, like, okay, and movies to access to like entertainment. Everyone has sat in their living room for 90 minutes, scrolling through choices and not ended up watching something. Because you're like, I can't pick anything back when you were like, hey, guess what? Indiana Jones is out. You want to watch a movie? That's the one we're watching. There is no other one. Well, what about Star Wars? That's not the theater anymore. You can watch that again in 10 years, when that used to exist you You took advantage of what was there? Now there's so much there, it overwhelms you, you get frozen. And so I think you're talking about something similar, honestly, it's like, there's so much access to so many images and ideas that your brain just goes I'm not those things. And then you can't move you know, and meanwhile, I know this is over stated, but everybody's not beautiful. A lot of beautiful people put themselves on social media, but there are far more people like me, and you know, and like you listening and we're like, Look, I'm not perfect, but I don't need to be perfect. I can't be perfect. But back in the day in the 70s. It was like, Well, I don't look like Cheryl Tiegs. But she was also the only one you knew who looked like that. I mean, Erica, you know, right? You go on Instagram. Every person looks like a model. You're like, oh my god, is the whole world. Beautiful. No. But Instagram is that going where those people are and then judging yourself against them. It just, it's so funny. Like, we don't do it with anything else. I don't watch a baseball game and go, I can't believe I can't hit a 420 foot homerun. I just think those are special people who can do that thing. I'll watch it. But when it happens in these other spaces, it really does make you feel terrible. Sometimes you're like, Oh, God, I'm never gonna get to this. You were never trying to get to that. But all of a sudden now you're now you're in a race. You didn't even mean to be running anyway. Yes.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 44:15
Because Because that tape that's being so easily triggered and replayed over and over again, I'm not good enough. You it's really it's hard to come out of that and say, Well, I'm gonna go build hope and follow my goals that I just set for myself. Right? So just having and I know it's Thankfully we're talking about it more and more. But just having that awareness around how much it's influencing your mindset, your choices, your thoughts about yourself and others is really, really important. You can

Scott Benner 44:45
start feeling like if I can't be that, then nothing's worthwhile being which is ridiculous, cuz there's four of those people. Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? Right. And

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 44:55
and it could say, you can kind of catastrophize it To end globalize it, right like, oh, I can't, I didn't nail my my Pre-Bolus or my a one C, I must be a really terrible mother, or my whatever it is.

Scott Benner 45:11
And other things. Yeah, yeah. If I can't do this, I must not be good at that either. Yes.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 45:16
As opposed to, oh, you know what, Gosh, I really I kind of goofed today. But I'm still really, I'm still doing the best I can. And I'm a great person, you know, if

Scott Benner 45:26
you can't figure out a way to stop looking at it, I would go from the aspect of somebody is sitting in a room right now, who knows, you're gonna feel like that. If they tune their algorithm the right way. And they're doing that to make you feel that way to keep you in that algorithm longer. Be mad at them and just leave. Like, for that reason. It's like, it's almost like smoking to me. I know, I've told you this before, but I told my brother one time when he was a little kid, I was like, there are 10 really rich people sitting in a boardroom right now laughing that you bought those cigarettes. Now and so you know, go ahead and make them rich if you want to. But yeah,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 45:57
power, power and money. Yep. Okay, I'm

Scott Benner 46:00
sorry. Okay. Okay. Can I read one? Yeah, I never get to read anything. Well, yeah, read the next one. Read number three. Number three, refuse to numb your negative emotions. Avoiding feeling negative emotions such as sadness, disappointment, shame, anger, via alcohol, drugs, shopping, scrolling, it may eventually look like avoiding looking at numbers avoiding Pre-Bolus saying avoiding calculating or even guessing the, the best you can about your diabetes. So wait a minute, how does that do that? Go ahead and refuse

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 46:31
to numb your negative emotions. This is a really big one, okay? Because when you're trying to build resilience, which is right, like overcoming adversity, having the hope that you can achieve your goals. Once you start to feel like from going from number two, you starting to feel I'm not good enough. And you're starting to feel that sadness or disappointment or shame. We are a society that numbs those hard to have feelings. So you're numbing often with alcohol drugs, going back to the scrolling, which is perpetuating that I'm not good enough feeling or thought. And then you're starting to numb everything. And avoiding, right so I can even play out to like, what's the point? I'm going to numb and avoid taking care of my diabetes through that is a you don't even want to feel it right. So you're going to avoid looking at the numbers. And this happened. It's easier. It was easier to do when you didn't have your, you know, your apps with your numbers all the time. But it was like I'm not going to take my blood sugar. But now people might not look at the number on the app, right? I'm just going to avoid it. I'm going to not engage, because I don't want to feel, yeah, that feeling that I've associated with. If I have a disappointing or shameful feeling corresponding to a number, I'm going to avoid it. Does that make sense? I had a

Scott Benner 47:56
woman telling me that she couldn't say the number out loud when her parents asked her she'd like throw the meter at them so they could see it. But even if the number was good, bad or indifferent, she couldn't bring herself to like utter the words. She didn't want to say it out loud. And this, again, is rolling back into this conversation I had with a doctor recently. Because she goes, I had this one patient, I'd look at their clarity report, they were 400 for like days, which just indicated to her, they didn't even look at their CGM. And that's what you just said like so like, even though the data is right in front of their face, they'll just willfully ignore it through this numbing process. This is interesting, right?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 48:35
Because you because you don't want to feel that. And that's if you have that association of shame connected to the numbers, right? So you're going to, and I'm kind of loosely connecting numbing to avoiding Yeah, but you're trying to avoid feeling those negative feelings. And so I'm saying you're kind of numbing, but really you're avoiding management. But does that make sense? Does

Scott Benner 48:59
I want to roll backwards for half a second, back to number two, the critical awareness like about those societal pressures? So there's a difference for people. If someone goes online, it's like, hey, look, here's my one. See, it's five, eight. Here's how I did it. I just you know, you guys should try it if you want. There are people who will see that and go, Oh, I'm gonna try that. That's fantastic. And there are people we're going to try that we're going to fall into this trap here, or we're already in this trap. Right? Then that becomes an argument because this is a place where I had to make a decision a long time ago, like who am I going to be in this space? Am I going to be the woe is me person who just goes up to people who don't feel well and go, Oh, I know. It's terrible, you know, or am I going to be the person who goes I think this is possible, like here, look, someone's doing it like a spider. Because you kind of can't be all things to all people, but being one or the other. No matter how you present your information in this in this diabetes specific situation. Some of the people are going to be pissed at you because they're going to say you're making me feel bad or they're going To say, God, you knew the answer to this and you didn't share it to me like, like, right? Like no matter what I do, someone's gonna hate me for it. And so I decided to go with hope, because that's just kind of how I'm wired. And I thought I'll bring people along with me. And hopefully, we won't hurt too many people along the way. But I don't think shifting this to me for a second, it gets us off track. But that's not my responsibility. Right? Correct. Because like, how you how you're going to respond? Yes,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 50:28
because we're only in control of our own thoughts and feelings, responses, we can't, you know, control other people's reactions. However we can we can be that's not an excuse to be a jerk when I know that's not what you're

Scott Benner 50:41
obviously not being a jerk about it. But so but my point is, if you're a person who's going to be triggered by that, it's incumbent upon you not to look at me, then is that right? You don't get to tell me I'm doing it wrong. Which

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 50:55
is right, well, it's like you could, but then you can also choose to, like, not engage with it. Yeah, just be

Scott Benner 51:00
done with it. Right. Like, yeah, like, that's what I would do normally, but but do people who end up doing that? Are they predisposed to doing that? Because they're so into this trap. Like they're already so far in this pit already, like maybe lashing outs, the only thing they have left?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 51:15
Perhaps that's the way that you're trying to kind of make yourself feel better, make yourself feel better. But also, I think it's going back to the sense of like, where are you in your journey of resilience? To say, you know, what, in this example, okay, Scott is giving you the Pro Tip series, right? Or beginning series, one can look at that and digest that and say, well, good for him, I'm never going to be able to get that it's more like an all or nothing thinking, yeah. Or the alternative is to say, with some hope, there's so many things, I'm so overwhelmed. I'm going to start with trying to Pre-Bolus just for my breakfast meal. And I might forget every other day, but I'm going to try this one thing. And I'm going to expect that I'm going to do it and have hoped that I'm going to do it and have that mindset, but I'm also going to hold that I'm there's this tolerance for disappointment in it. So your question of when people are lashing out and saying, Why are you telling me

Scott Benner 52:22
Don't show me your great success? It makes me feel bad. Okay. Yeah.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 52:27
Yes. And that is a hot topic in the Facebook group. I know.

Scott Benner 52:30
It's a hot topic and diabetes since the day I've been involved. Well, yeah,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 52:34
diabetes. Yeah. So I think it goes back to the delivery. And we've talked a ton about this, the delivery of the information, to be mindful and compassionate. But also holding that you can't control other people's responses. And then if you are the digester, you're consuming that information, being mindful of Why am I being triggered in this way? Is it because it's is it triggering this old tape in my brain? That I am never going to get this? I am never going to be a good enough diabetic, right? So be mindful of like that those three things, the delivery, the tone? And then how how are you being? How are you consuming it? And is it triggering the tape? And for those of you Yeah, I don't know, tape is such an old

Scott Benner 53:18
thing. No, but no, you're making it listen, I asked the question, because I think that's the answer. And like, and this will sound pejorative for a second. But I don't mean it that way. Like, if you make nerfing the world my responsibility, I'm not going to have any time to help all the people that have been helped by the podcast, like there's got to be a point where I say, not everybody can, can accept this right now, some people are going to be in this position that we're talking about. But that's why if you hear this and you feel that way, the reason I brought it up right here is if you hear this and you feel that way, go back, develop hope, use your critical awareness, like do these four things that we're talking about here it because you're in that position right now, whether you know it or not, if you're busy telling me I'm the reason you feel bad, then or anybody doesn't have to be me, I put it on myself for this. But if you're busy telling yourself, they're the reason I'm not doing well, please hear me, you're probably trapped in a situation you might not even be completely aware that you're in. Yeah, that's how I feel. I don't know if you'll agree with me or not. But well, I

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 54:22
think it's a little bit different if we're sticking into this very specific example of you are very clear in your messaging and goal of helping people manage their diabetes, right? So maybe it becomes more confusing in that concept or that conversation when other people are saying this works for me or do it this way, or when

Scott Benner 54:45
it's more and more social media manipulative, or that kind of thing. Okay. All right. Like when they go they say stuff like do you feel like this? Oh, my God, I do. And you know, and then the next thing you know, you're three swipes over and the Instagram story and they're offering you Coaching for just $300 a month, you're like, Oh, yes. All right.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 55:03
I mean, this, we're going into, you know, the boundaries conversation, which I think is a really fascinating one of how you are communicating with somebody else. How are you receiving someone else's communication? How is that impacting you? Is, is a whole other conversation around emotional physical boundaries? Let me

Scott Benner 55:23
drop that so you can finish and maybe we'll talk about later.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 55:26
But yeah, yeah. Okay. So the fourth thing that Brene Brown had identified through her 20 years of research is embracing spirituality. And she is very clear, and that it's not about when she says spirituality, I know people might think of church or religion, but it's actually a really different concept. And so she defines spirituality, as recognizing and celebrating that we are all inextricably connected to each other by a power greater than all of us. And then our connection to that power into one another is grounded in love and compassion. practicing spirituality brings a sense of perspective, meaning and purpose to our lives. So again, she goes through all different examples that people talk about, you know, practicing their spirituality in houses of worship, like churches and mosques or at the fishing hole that most people do reference God, but it doesn't have to be. So it's this larger concept of interconnectedness that was identified as people who were resilient or working on becoming more resilient, which I think is a really important component, particularly as I think there's a reason why there's so much power in the diabetes community. Yeah. Because even in that essence, of whether it's online or in person, however it is, you feel that connection, right?

Scott Benner 56:47
No, I'd say it's like, when I can't do it, we can do it. That sort of feeling like you're not really with me, but I feel like you are. And whether that's a person on Facebook, or, or God doesn't really matter, as long as you have that feeling.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 57:00
Yes. Yeah. And and wreck it Yeah, recognizing it, celebrating it. And I think it becomes, it is so painful when we see within the context of even just the diabetes community of people kind of going after each other. Because there's beauty in that, like, No, we're all here together. We're all in this together. Yeah, let's let's offer this compassion to one another, we all have different experiences of living with it. We all have different challenges because of our past because of how we function and because of how we process challenges. But to embrace that concept of like, we are connected, let's offer compassion to one another, breeds that sense of resilience. This is

Scott Benner 57:43
such a lovely ending, because I don't even know if Erica knows this or not. But I just got out of the shower one day and texted Eric and said, I'd like to talk about resilience on the podcast, then she weeks or months later sends me back this document. She's like, I think this is the outline for maybe a four part series about resilience. And we're here at the end. And I'm like, oh my god, it's the things that that are always important. You know what I mean? Like these always important things, I found them at the end of this path. And the part you may or might not be surprised by is I didn't read your document when you sent it to me. Like I wanted to experience it as we were talking about it. And so like, while you were building the, you know, building the story for people. I mean, I think it's pretty obvious how we do it, you build the story, I have realizations, we chat through them, etc. But I swear to you when we got the end here, and it was like I was like, oh, it's hope, critical awareness, not giving into pressure. Don't numb yourself find community. I was like, God damn, how about that? Like, I actually like at the end, I was like, I didn't think this was going to be how this ended. It makes a lot of sense that this is that this is the end of what we're talking about. Truly. Yes. Wow. Wow.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 58:55
Yeah, they're hot. They're like, as you said, kind of hallmarks hallmarks. And like, yes, of course, that makes so much sense. Yeah, and yet it's so it is hard to implement. But I think it's so important to end on this on this hopeful piece that this is what is identified and recognized in the in the research and the literature and can be implemented. And if you if you are feeling stuck, or challenged even through these last four notes of of hopefulness, awareness, refusing to numb for seeking spirituality that you're there's, you know, there's something greater than just yourself, yeah, to reach out for help, again, to whoever may be and if even that part is feeling challenging. Starting with, whether it's a therapist or an email to I was gonna say to you, don't

Scott Benner 59:48
don't email me I'm very busy. But listen, develop like, Be hopeful. Believe in yourself. Don't listen to other people. Believe in yourself. Don't put your head in the sand. Go and You find some community because you're going to need help. That's it. Yeah, that's fantastic. And

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 20:00:05
community again, the community doesn't have to be you don't have tons and tons of relationships if you're experiencing that loneliness, starting with one career person. Yeah. When? Yeah, when another person I

Scott Benner 20:00:17
see people in the Facebook group become friends all the time, like, I don't, I don't like pry into their business. But like, I know, I'm thinking of this one person right now. I did a live thing the other night. And I was like, Oh, I wish this person was here. And somebody goes, I'll text them. And I thought, how the hell do you know how to text them. And then I realized, as I called, they became friends to my little podcast. And that looks like you don't even like that. And even if it's just the two of them, and I'm sure it's not, but even if it was just the two of them. Now they've got the connections, the right word, but it seems lame to say but like, there's a synergy, like you can feel each other's energy this way. And when yours is waning, there's can kind of make up for you. Like being hooked to a lot of different batteries, almost and one starts to go down. And maybe, you know, you steal a little charge from the other one. Wow, this was great. Thank you that I'm gonna text you more when I'm in the shower. It's working out really well.

Unknown Speaker 20:01:10
You're welcome. Thank

Scott Benner 20:01:11
you, please did not go anywhere. Like I thought it was gonna go. I'm so pleasantly surprised by what you did here. Congratulations, and Bravo. Thank you. Oh, thank you while we're recording, so I never say nice things to you until we're done recording usually. I don't know what I thought was gonna happen. Yeah, I

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 20:01:29
was just going to ask you what, what did you anticipate?

Scott Benner 20:01:32
I mean, I don't know, I'm a boy. Like these things that I do naturally, I don't see them thoughtfully like this. Do you know what I mean? Like, I just figure, I don't give up. And that's why stuff works for me. And I'm thoughtful about stuff. And I pay attention. And I move away from things that don't make sense to me. I don't let people tell me no. But in the end, if you asked me to quantify that, I just be like, I don't know, man. I'm just hard headed. Like, that's pretty much how it feels to me. And it's not true. Because as you were going through all this, I was like, Oh, that is who I am. Or that is what happens to me or that is why I feel like that. And it's nice to have that feeling because it resolves tension, and makes me feel lighter when it's over. Like that's literally what I would hope people get out of these four episodes. If they listen through them. I hope when it's over, they're not gonna have an answer to their problem. But they might feel like it's more doable. And, or they can at least understand the reason why it's happening to them so they can stop blaming themselves, or somebody else. Yes. Oh, wow. Look at you. You're doing the Lord's work. Good. I kept you over. I'm so sorry. It's so good. Thank you hold on one second. Want to take another moment to thank Erica for all the hard work and preparation that she put into the resilience series. And I want to remind you that you can hire Erica to be your therapist at Erica foresight.com. Or if you're in California, you can see her in person. A huge thank you to ever since CGM for sponsoring this episode of the podcast. Are you tired of having to change your sensor every seven to 14 days with the ever since CGM, you just replace it once every six months via a simple in office visit. Learn more and get started today at ever since cgm.com/juicebox. Arden started using a contour meter because of its accuracy, but she continues to use it because it's adorable and trustworthy. If you have diabetes, you want the contour next gen blood glucose meter. There's already so many decisions. Let me take this one off your plate. Contour next one.com/juicebox Are you still here? Why are you not getting your tickets to the touch by type one event or at least checking them out on Facebook and Instagram touched by type one.org. If you or a loved one was just diagnosed with type one diabetes, and you're looking for some fresh perspective, the bowl beginning series from the Juicebox Podcast is a terrific place to start. That series is with myself and Jenny Smith. Jenny is a CDC es a registered dietitian and a type one for over 35 years. And in the bowl beginning series Jenny and I are going to answer the questions that most people have after a type one diabetes diagnosis. The series begins at episode 698 In your podcast player, or you can go to juicebox podcast.com. And click on bold beginnings in the menu. If you're not already subscribed or following in your favorite audio app, please take the time now to do that. It really helps the show and get those automatic downloads set up so you never miss an episode. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast. The episode you just heard was professionally edited by wrong way recording. Wrong way recording.com