#589 Be the Change

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed is creating the change in Saudi Arabia that people need.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 589 of the Juicebox Podcast.

I had a terrific conversation with r1. Let me tell you a little bit about her. She came to the United States from Saudi Arabia. When she got to the United States, she got herself a PhD, and then moved back home, where she is now a nurse scientist, and the first pediatric nurse practitioner in the country of Saudi Arabia. I think you're gonna find that our conversation is about more than diabetes. It's about how difficult change happens. And it shines a spotlight on one person's effort to make that change. Please remember, while you're listening that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan, or becoming bold with insulin. If you're from the United States and have type one diabetes, or from the United States, and care for someone with type one, please take just a few moments to go to T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox and fill out the survey. It'll only take you less than 10 minutes. It helps people living with type one it helps research and it supports the show

this show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries. G voc hypo Penn Find out more at G voc glucagon.com. Forward slash juicebox. Today's episode is also sponsored by touched by type one, please head over to touched by type one.org. Or, and and or find them on Facebook. And Instagram touched by type one helps people living with type one diabetes. And you may be very interested in how they do that. There are links in the show notes of your podcast player and links at juicebox podcast.com. To these and all of the sponsors.

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 2:10
My name is Arwa Al Hamed. I am from Saudi Arabia, identify myself as a pediatric nurse practitioner. Right now I'm not practicing per se but I'm an assistant professor at the University. In the School of Nursing, where I am teaching pediatric nursing to undergrad I'm also doing clinical instructing for the pediatric nursing care course. I'm also involved in research with pediatric were affected by chronic illnesses focusing on their cognitive functions, psychosocial health, as well as transitioning and quality of life.

Scott Benner 3:00
Wow. Okay, well, how does that all happen? Let's um, how old are you?

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 3:05
3033 Are you reaching? 34?

Scott Benner 3:08
Have you been in college since you were seven?

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 3:13
Yeah, I think I've been in school most of my life. I practiced nursing. I own the bedside for three years. But then I immediately joined the post grad where I just came back from the US actually, two years ago. So yeah, for more information I did my master and PhD in the US. Part of it in New York and and other parts in Ohio, Cleveland. This is where I met Julia Blanchette. That's right, three,

Scott Benner 3:45
Angela has been on the show a number of times. And she introduced us. Yeah, that was really sweet. So how do you when you decide I don't want to be a bedside nurse anymore? I'm going to get a PhD. What's the what's the search, like for where to go look for it.

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 4:02
Right? So it's actually it was not a time where I didn't want to do bedside, I would never stop doing bedside. But at that moment, in the place where I was working, it sounded to me like a dead end. And I was I found myself into studying more specializing more in academic areas, because at that time, my only option was either to continue to be only to on the bedside or do admin work, though the career path for nurses at that time was not not promising from my perspective, in terms of higher education. And I was, yeah, I was always hoping that I finished my undergrad and then proceed to Masters and PhD immediately. I was worried that continuing to be on the bedside area will prevent me from doing my master's in PhD. At that time, there was no option to go to do my masters and PhD through through the hospital. So the only option was to me is moved to academia. And there was opening and they wanted people to come and work there as teaching assistants, and then they would sponsor them to go and do their masters and PhD. So they come back and teach at that time, and we still have a big shortage in faculty in the nursing, undergraduate studies,

Scott Benner 5:38
what's the length of time you spent in the US?

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 5:41
About seven years?

Scott Benner 5:43
Wow, by yourself? Or did you go with family?

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 5:46
No, by myself? Of course, family we'd visit every now and then.

Scott Benner 5:50
No, but still, you moved from where you are now to? Yes. The Midwest of the United States or Vegas? Not really, wherever you are not in Ohio.

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 5:58
I started in New York, I started New York, actually, I was very shocked with the snow. So many times I wanted to go back just because of the snow. So I'm very glad that my brother was with me. Initially, he came with me for first three weeks to just help me settle, etc. If he wasn't there at that time, I would have been in Saudi because I couldn't stand the snow. Like you didn't make sense to me. People. Oh, it's that. Yeah.

Scott Benner 6:27
The people listening? Well, no, because we started recording after we talked about it. But you started in a room that was a little noisy. And I said you know it, but is that you said it's air conditioning? And I said can you turn it off? And you were like, No, I'll die. Yo, I just know must have been? I mean, how what's the temperature outside where you are now?

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 6:45
About 100 to 200? Yeah. And that's only the beginning.

Scott Benner 6:50
Your summer runs concurrent with ours. So you're in spring right now moving into summer?

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 6:56
Yes, yeah. But you know, our spring is basically your summer. And then it gets different summer that you will never have, hopefully, you'll never experience. Unless you happen to visit in the summertime, which I don't recommend.

Scott Benner 7:10
You think I'll just burn up like a piece of paper, probably.

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 7:14
Especially in the central parts of Saudi. If you go south to be nicer, it's mountainy. heli. But in in the central area. It's really, really hot and dry, and dusty. We get lots of sand storms. So you know how you guys spend most of your winter indoors. We have the same thing. But in the summertime, most of the monthly spend in the summer are indoors just because we cannot do anything without Daisy. So it's you're either in a mall, in the restaurant or in the house. Yeah, mostly indoors

Scott Benner 7:50
and the trunk of your car has seven cases of water and it just in case you stopped.

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 7:56
Actually, you wouldn't do this because it will be very hot. It's not drinking anymore.

Scott Benner 8:02
What about in the evenings? How? How much does it cool down?

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 8:07
Um, it's still very hard. Sometimes some nights are nicer than the others. But generally, it's not really nice. Gotcha.

Scott Benner 8:18
Wow, that sounds terrible. But I understand being scared by the snow because I hate the snow. And I was born here. So you see it and and that wind, right? Especially in New York City, people who've never been there don't know that the wind whips one way through the city. So you can be walking down one block where you're where you're shielded from it, and you're just like, Oh, this isn't so bad. Then you get to the intersection and a wall of frozen air just hits you.

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 8:46
Right, will make you be tearful. I didn't know that kind of a phenomena. You were crying in the wind just because of how strong is the wind?

Scott Benner 8:57
Yeah, I must have been hacking a shop. Okay, so you're in? You're in New York for a while, and then you went to Ohio after that? Correct. Okay. So you get a master's and what was your PhD in?

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 9:11
Um, so I did my masters as a pediatric nurse practitioner, and I finished and immediately got accepted in Case Western, in the in their PhD of nursing program. And my focus was basically the cognitive functions, together with some specific cognitive measures and quality of life in children who are living with chronic renal disease, or early stages of renal failure.

Scott Benner 9:44
It's interesting. Let me ask you another question. Before I get to that, though, the US health system versus what you were coming from in Saudi Arabia were their vast differences or was it fairly similar? What did you find?

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 10:00
Okay, so right now we kind of have both systems if if I would say, yes, the Saudi has the government funded health care system, meaning that every Saudi citizen is entitled for free health care, and we have certain amount of government hospital in addition, we also have private sector like health. Health services being offered through private sector, meaning we have hospitals, private hospitals, that if you want to go pay out of your pocket, you can, you can still do that. Now, it's increasing, it seems like the country is even now giving more support to private, private companies to open and establish more hospitals, clinics, etc. So both of them are flourishing at the same time. Generally, everyone is entitled for this special also those who go to the military, or work in the military, or in the National Guard, for example, in my case, they also can have their access to their military hospitals. What happens is, because of that, still, we you're not, you're not going to get quick access to health care, unless, of course, if it's emergency emergency rooms are open, but thinking about dental health, dermatology, or like those primary health care services, we will have to wait sometimes months to get appointments. And this is where you might choose to go to private. It's not completely for specific services, if you if you need there are also the

Scott Benner 11:47
I'm sorry, for the speed of being seen, where are their quality differences as well?

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 11:53
No, for that, mostly for the speed of being seen. I'm pretty lucky living in the US because we're still a little bit centralized, where all the good services are located in Riyadh. So you would really or in this case, the government hospitals, as well as the private hospitals offer pretty good quality. I personally would choose to go into government, because most of the government, hospitals are educational, or university hospitals. So you're being treated with very, you know, long standing. medicine, medical colleges and nursing schools, etc. With that being said, I'll also need to make clear is a few work in companies, some, some big companies, they offer also your they can offer you what you call medical insurance. And it depends on of course, in the coverage level, etc. They have levels, depending on your position, etc. And now the country is moving toward pushing all those who work in private sector to to offer all their employees

Scott Benner 13:12
will be can insurance. That's interesting.

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 13:14
So that's why it's now it's confusing. We have both systems. Right? Well,

Scott Benner 13:18
it's also interesting that here, people are complaining about health insurance and pushing for a private, you know, a lot of people want a private answer, or excuse me a government answer where everybody's sort of covered, you know, at the same rate, and there you have that, and you're moving towards medical insurance.

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 13:40
I don't think we're moving but I think

Scott Benner 13:43
it's becoming more prevalent.

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 13:46
Right, it's, it's, I think it's because of the high load that the government hospitals are facing, especially from those who are not covered under military hospitals, we have many military hospital, big hospitals. So the load will for the other like, citizens will will fall on to some big government hospitals, where you will have to wait, sometimes months, sometimes years to do procedures. And I think one strategy is that the government is trying to support more entrepreneurs to open private hospitals and then we will help you paying for for for insurance, just make sure that everyone has at least an option. So they don't have to wait months and months for the government. Right? You know what I mean? So you will still be entitled for the government service, but instead of waiting, you can still have other options.

Scott Benner 14:47
Okay. Now, what about the standards of care? Did they vary between there and here or were they pretty similar?

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 14:54
Right, many hospitals in Riyadh and in Jeddah, the two Me in large cities in Saudi and the East in the East Coast, we have an another two big cities. Most of the hospitals there are JCI accredited, I think joint commission accredited most of them. So I'm assuming most of the hospitals follow the US standards, specifically the military hospitals. Surprisingly, a lot of them worked or collaborated with, develop what United State developers like, for example, in my case, in my hospital, they they collaborated with some companies from the US early on to establish those standards, even in terms of equipment, etc.

Scott Benner 15:53
What have been in diabetes, specifically, if you're if you're diagnosed there today, what happens do you get, you don't get regular and NPH insulin you get? You get modern insulins, right, like some version of Novolog, Humalog, that kind of stuff. Correct? Right? And do people start off with injections? Because I get a lot of letters from people living in your area? Asking me if I know how to get CGM and insulin pumps there, that actually happens frequently. Are they not readily available?

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 16:28
Um, they are. But again, I would still consider, well, it's very important to mention that still services are mostly, like heavily provided in central areas or big cities. So maybe you will hear that from residents have rural areas or areas far away from the central areas or from the large cities in the kingdom. The other thing? I think, yes, it depends on where they are from, or that they're, depending on the supply, or if they got those new equipments. I also noticed some people are a little bit afraid of the pumps. In my family, a few of my cousins actually have type one diabetes. And two of them, actually, their parents are not very comfortable having the pumps, so they still prefer the injections. But they are still they're here. They're offered. And I think it's based on preference.

Scott Benner 17:39
Yeah, I actually know a few families that fly to America buy products and cash and flight back. And maybe, maybe things are changed since even I've heard those stories. That's a it's, I mean, it makes sense to that, as you get further away from population centers. Can't care. I don't know if it slips or if maybe just the ideas haven't gotten out. Because there's fewer people. And you know, they don't get a chance to see each other using them. I would also wonder how you keep insulin cool. They're like, yeah, they

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 18:15
will it same, same thing. Same thing applies to the US in the summertime, they will always move with their small refrigerators with them. Okay. All right. But we don't do lots of summer activity in the summer time. So unlike in the US, for example, in the US, you would be worried right about kids going camping or going for the beach or going for sports. I'm very, very limited. Things we do out during the summertime, so they're always in the refrigerator.

Scott Benner 18:45
has these.

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 18:47
Yeah, referring back to the to the pump, over the one I give wrong information. There might be other factors that I'm not only pretty aware of. So yeah, I'm just not one to be honest enough. I might not be very familiar with all the other factors.

Scott Benner 19:06
Okay. No, I appreciate that. I just, I'm just interested in your perspective. So when when you get your PhD, I guess that kind of drives your, your your focus moving forward. So you come home, was it always the plan to come home and practice? Yes, it was. So you come home with an eye on helping with the cognitive issues. And you're you're in this one focus right now. Is that right? Or do you move outside of it as well?

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 19:33
I know a little bit outside like for example, lately. Actually, Julius specifically inspired me to look at that variable, where transition specifically that we don't have transition clinic that transition clinic by itself is a new idea. In some specialties they started applying them, for example in rheumatology They already have transition clinics to treat kids who are moving from childhood into adulthood. But for type one diabetes, despite the high the high prevalence here, they don't. And what's also concerning to me compared to the US is that we consider children as as to be treated in the pediatric clinic. If they are from one day old until 14 years old, only. Unlike in the US, where they can continue with the pediatrician until they are 21. I'm not wrong. We're 24

Scott Benner 20:44
You can stay with your knowledge here. I'm sorry. If you're in college, you can stay with your nutrition till you've graduated. I'm sorry, you broke up,

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 20:55
right? No, I'm here. He only until 14 Once they get into it.

Scott Benner 21:07
Or why you just disappeared? We lost our Yes, I'm back to the dog get you? Yes. Yeah. I'm okay. No, no, it's fine. Yeah.

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 21:22
So that was concerning to me. Because I was wondering what happened to those kids? Do we just send them to the adults? area? Starting from 50 years old? How about if they're, like, even if you're considering them physically at puberty? In terms of mental or cognitive? or you're not? You don't know yet, you know, even deciding who's mature and who's not takes a psychologist to review that it's right. So they just at 14 years old, they just discharged from the pediatric area, and they send it to adults, where everything is different, their approach is different providers different and the family should not be involved that much, and all that has an influence on their compliance.

Scott Benner 22:10
Can I? So is that cultural that age cut off? Or is that? Yeah, it is?

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 22:17
It's, it's a Yeah, because I'm not sure if you're familiar we consider for a boy who was at puberty, or a girl who was at puberty, they're considered already mature. Oh, so you have to, for a female she has to cover up from other male who are not from her family? And for the for the male, he cannot be cannot be with other females who are not among his family, or they're not? They shouldn't they should cover up. I see. So in that case, we regularly admit, admit them in pediatric units. Of course, that was mostly before we had shared rooms, etc. So usually the sitters or the those who are admitted with the patient are usually mothers. So for this patient to be boy at puberty was very inconvenient. So usually they they put that cutoff limit. So they it's for segregation purpose is to help segregation.

Scott Benner 23:20
Make sure I understand continued, yeah, make sure I understand if my son was diagnosed, right as he hit puberty in that age, then my wife could not go with him to the hospital. Because there'd be a commingling of genders is

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 23:39
no no, no. admission for admission, your jewelry for convenience, but no role to prevent anything. No, they can still go and do everything together. But I mean, for convenience purposes, they organize it that way.

Scott Benner 23:51
So this one cultural idea, leads leads to separating, like putting children into adult care was something that's really confusing that they're probably not ready for it. Because at that age, I mean, I have to be honest, at that age, I was like, stupid. I didn't you know, I didn't understand anything and I had no context for anything still. I guess I didn't grow up where where these kids did so maybe I would have been more mature at that age. I'm not sure. But that's incredibly interesting. So you said that the care differs between the segment of children in the segment of adults how does how does the idea of carrot change

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 24:30
like for example consider how the care in in pediatric clinics for example is always family centered right? You're not gonna be able to access the child without his parents in and most of the cases are usually mothers. But now with with moving to adulthood, your family or or not really The focus you are the focus now your should be all of a sudden, the one who is taking care of all the details, including scheduling and compliance and not only prescribe administering your medication, but following up all these different appointments and supplies, etc. So the approach is different. Now you're not only communicating, you used to communicate with the whole family, but with adult you mostly communicate with the patient. How does that work? And the other thing

Scott Benner 25:35
I like? How does that end up working out? Like, is that a, like a? Okay, rock solid? Everybody's doing really well and super healthy? Or is it problematic? Somewhere in between?

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 25:47
It's a it's actually a very good question. Because when I came back, and I noticed that I, I communicate with some of the endocrinologist, we work with the pediatric endocrine, and they, they told me that they they tweaked a little bit within this system just to keep their patients with them until the physician feels very comfortable. discharging the child from pediatric to adult. Which is to me it's nice, but at the same time, it takes a lot of effort from the physician side to our would it go assess the

Scott Benner 26:27
kids, right? Yeah.

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 26:29
And yeah, they still have to what to call it compromise that it's a bit and talk with with sometimes admin people or you know, hospital admin people, because they they keep pushing for that, like, you have to move this child to adulthood he's he's already in the system, he's 14 You need to move into other then they will go and a little bit Jani advocate for their patient to just keep them under their care until they feel comfortable. Making sure that the child started to be independent, start administering his medication or following up his coming at least to the clinic, sometimes alone, etc. And once they feel ready, they, they they transferred them, but it's not always possible. Sometimes you will have to do that.

Scott Benner 27:21
What are a one seagulls there?

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 27:25
Huh, I don't have an accurate number. But I'm assuming

Scott Benner 27:31
Well, what would you ask some what would you hope someone wish was aiming for? If you were if you were I would

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 27:41
say six 6.5? I would say okay, that's fine. Five

Scott Benner 27:46
is diet there. There any cultural differences in foods that make type one management easier or more difficult?

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 27:55
Um, I would say yes, it would make it more difficult just because the, the culture or the lifestyle here is is sedentary a little bit because especially that the weather people are very reluctant to go out with that. Weather, especially in the summertime. And summertime, or summer weather specifically coincides with summer vacation, which is quite long. And not every not all kids get to travel or do activities. Most of them are indoors. gyms and look or to to to participate in a gym or something indoor usually costs money. It's not possible for all families to offer that for all their kids. So I would assume the the diets with all the options, we have people like dessert here, people like variety of food, we have vary. Now the fast food thing is, is becoming an expert here. Like making all sorts of us fast food, but now we no longer have changed restaurant or we do but we're very becoming very, like good at making our own local restaurant or fast food and especially kids that they're like adolescents or, you know, they cannot resist all these options, especially in the summertime. So I'm assuming it would be a little bit difficult. I personally noticed that when I came back, people eat lots of snacks, unhealthy snacks here compared to in other countries where snacks are limited here. They have a lot of options. It's very tempting. We're very very good at making dessert here. Very, very good, like insanely good. You're welcome by the way.

Scott Benner 29:50
We We've exported all of our best goods to you to learn from McDonald's. Congratulations. That's terrible. Can I ask just from a personal like standpoint? What? Is there anything you miss about the US? Either professionally or personally a lot.

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 30:15
Um, I miss a lot. I miss the weather, I miss the green life, I get very attached to the lifestyle where I do go out during the summer all the time to parks, mountains, lakes, rivers, I miss all this, to be honest with you. I missed the diversity very much. I kind of got addicted to it. So now every time I go out or socialize, I get bored very quickly, because people are mostly the same here. There's from the same culture from the same place. We you know, we don't have a lot of we don't have a strong immigration history. We do have expats coming to work here, but not immigration, per se. So people don't end up mixing and being just one. One country. No, we still have a lot of people coming to work, but not so much mixing. And unless you make active efforts to do that, which I ended up doing, I ended up joining meetup groups as if I'm still in a new country, just to just to fill that need of meeting new people or diverse people every time. That's interesting.

Scott Benner 31:26
Yeah, I guess you ask a question. And once it gets answered the same way, four or five times in a row? Not a lot of excitement about asking it again.

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 31:33
Exactly. Yeah, exactly. It was always interesting here to conversate with people and you'll always hear different religion, different culture, different ethnic background, there are different interests to like people who usually do the same thing that a majority of people are kind of similar. And even there, and you know, we're very social oriented. Society here, we still like to fit in. And it's, it's now it's changing at least. But still like the overall picture is that everyone looks the same talks, the same, does the same thing. So on

Scott Benner 32:23
you made me think of earlier, I kind of had a light bulb go off in my head when you said people are either at home or in the mall. And it reminded me of a time I visited the Dominican Republic, and there was this mall. And it just felt like everyone was in it. It was it was the busiest place I've ever seen in my life. And it never occurred to me that it was about getting out of the hot weather. Until Ryan just said that. And the the idea of diversity, that's not going to change there anytime soon, I would imagine.

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 32:56
It's actually changing in Riyadh, specifically in VR, but now is becoming like a very big hub for all new companies and new investments and with with most of them the vision of 2030. All this is they're attracting more businesses to open and beyond. So a lot of people coming to work in Riyadh every year, right? It's interesting. Yes, it's very interesting. Compared to before, now, I see more and more opening up. If you go out now you see a lot of people from different places, going out more before with with COVID. And all the travelers restriction, people would come work and then they travel, you would rarely see them coming out in the weekend or coming to entertain in Riyadh. But now with the COVID restriction, I came to realize how much diversity we have in Riyadh. Because now with all the travel restriction, people ended up spending their weekends you're spending their vacations and be out. So you start seeing people from different countries and places in Riyadh, some of them are and I think you and I think it's going to get even more diverse because the plan is to have like, more foreign companies opening their headquarters and beyond. So I'm expecting to see more and more that's

Scott Benner 34:29
like that. That's probably particularly exciting for someone like you who's lived somewhere that's more diverse.

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 34:36
It is I'm enjoying it very much. i It's true. You don't see any changes at the level of the society like comparing it to people who would be living here for years and years changing even though like building block of the country itself, but you will still see six to see changes people opening up more now and and being more accepting of differences where now you don't have to do active effort to look like everyone else because you start being more than welcome then accepted the way you are. So I'm enjoying it for now.

Scott Benner 35:19
Yeah, I would be excited. Are you married? I didn't ask. No, I'm not. I have no idea what's happening right now. Siri just started talking for some reason that really messed with my head hasn't happened.

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 35:35
Maybe she wasn't happy with the question.

Scott Benner 35:37
Yeah, I gotta try harder. I marriage question I couldn't hear with my headphones on. Do you think it was? Do you think my speaker just started going? Like, come on, buddy? Try harder? No, I just was. I was just interested. So your your are you? Is that something you're interested in? Marriage? Yeah. Is it uncommon for you to feel that way at your age living there it is.

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 36:02
Mostly, most of people in my age are married and have kids, including, like me, whether despite of the gender, but I think especially living in Riyadh, again, I will keep pointing back to Riyadh is because even in the other, not only the becoming the hub for all the new jobs and for all career, nice career pathways, people would move to Riyadh, from different cities, even in in the kingdom. So you start meeting people at their 30s, who marriage is not in their priority, because career is their priority, mostly. So now it's becoming common that you see people in my age, or not married and they're okay. They're, they're not desperately looking forward, or they're not facing pressure from the family to get married. It's becoming normal, just another normal. I think it's mainly because of carrier. Most of the people I meet who are in my age and are not married, they're always very passionate about their carrier what they're doing.

Scott Benner 37:28
So it basically breaks down some lines, like you're gonna build a family or you're going to or build a career but it doesn't those two don't mesh well together. Like the idea of two really career motivated people living together doesn't happen quite as much. No, it is not for you.

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 37:49
But I think it's very interesting. If we start talking about this, I will be talking for like, two more hours. I think, I think what happened is with this transition, that the the to the sudden and quick changes that happened in Saudi in terms of society, and economy, of course, economy has been okay all the time. But now is there a major society changes for example, now, we were driving before we didn't, and all the breaking of the segregation that's happening now in many places, et cetera. So there's major dramatic societal changes. What happened is up in Wilson, their 30s. There, they're still there in between. They're not from those who are before the generation who are older or they're not even the current generation who are already experiencing these changes, that they don't feel anything different for us or people in my age. We're facing lots of conflicting ideas. We continue to compare what we see now compared to what we've been taught to what venues to do or what they've been prevented from doing etc. Compared to now where everything is different. So I think what happens is those who cope very well and adjust quickly and and fit in they they might they need to find someone who's that similar to them. Who who's adjusting well and adopting all those new changes without feeling any conflict, any internal conflict. And and here comes a problem. I think girls are doing much much better in this compared to guys in our age. Where they still not sure if they like what they see now and if they're okay to completely adjust to what they see and they're still stuck to some old Ideas are old about, you know about gender about what to expect from a wife what to expect from marriage, all this? Right? Well, I think I'm in that space and that gap in that space. Yeah.

Scott Benner 40:13
Yeah. I mean, listen, it makes sense, right? Because when, when human rights and civil rights and things like that get more and more available for people, it really does end up benefiting women. exponentially, right? Where, right? Whereas men are like, Wait, so then yes, there's no lady that's gonna clean this stuff and make me food. But you don't like me? You don't get quite the same deal if you're on the other side of it. So that makes 100% sense. And so people are holding out, they're like, I wonder what life could be. I'm gonna wait and make something cool, right?

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 40:50
Yes, yeah, some of them are actually waiting to be stuck

Scott Benner 40:53
inside the air conditioning. Because

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 40:57
a lot of girls in Saudi know, they don't want to wait, they feel that they spent so many years in that old mentality. And they don't want that anymore. So they're very eager to live their life to their maximum capabilities and maximum potentials, either at work, or even in social life. So they always have plans when I meet girls in my age, it's, it's, it's very surprising. And interesting, because most of them are in the same page. Most of them, they just want to enjoy all those privileges that we have right now. can travel anytime, anywhere. We can do any hobby that you wanted before, and was not an option. For example, music, playing instruments, you can only do that at your home or practice it with your family, but never something that you can work on or be have a carrier or something that you can make a business out of it. Well, everything is just all of a sudden open. It's kind of distracting even from looking for marriage, believe it or not, you

Scott Benner 41:58
know what it sounds like? It sounds like Netflix for life. Like there's so many. You just scroll and scroll and scroll and never watch anything. You're just like, there's too much to do. I can't pick. But that makes sense, though. And it kind of sounds exciting. What what do you think, started that kind of boom? Was there one cultural shift that moved everything in a different direction?

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 42:23
I think there are so many. But for example, I give you a very, very simple example. Some of the, I think king king, King Abdullah, previously he was Prince Abdullah Ahmed. And then I think probably I'm not sure if you're familiar with all the royal family members. But King Abdullah, for example, he started a move that was I think, about 15 years ago, where they started the studying abroad program. They have, they created a program where they sponsors students with high GPAs starting from like fifth when they finish high school. And they can sparse they sponsor them for studying abroad. Programs in different countries started with the US, Canada, UK, and many others. But the three main big countries that we used to go is the US, Canada and the UK. It started a long time ago about 15 or 20 years ago, I think the plan would from what you see is that they want to prepare a generation of people who are let's say, Western, educated, they're, they're, they're used to seeing different cultures because think about we've been a little bit Yani introvert for some time, in terms of like exposing to different cultures, different races of religion. So I think the plan was is to not only make them get Western education, but make them mix with other cultures or other religions and and then when they come back, they're more ready to absorb the new changes or that are already happening. So I think that worked for big part of what's happening because those students when they came back, most of them now are the leaders and most of them that say ministries, all the government services or the big, big companies in Saudi Arabia. So I'm assuming that in part worked. And then, of course, the new Prince Mohammed bin Salman, with that knew, of course, that's the first and the only time we ever had a young leader, that young leader and that kind of changed everything because he is I think he has chords to change things that others were very reluctant to change us. They were very afraid to change those social things that were fully yeah thought about it as religion when in fact it wasn't. I think he was just courageous enough to start pushing for those changes that has been already there. But it would, no one has the like, really the chords to apply them or implement them.

Scott Benner 45:35
Right? I have to admit, the first time that I saw in the news that it was a big deal that a woman was driving a car. I was I stopped me for a second I thought, Wait, women couldn't drive cars. Like I didn't. That was not something it even occurred to me. But this is it's kind of fascinating because you're, you're transitioning, but that transition still has to happen culturally and slowly to some degree like you can't I imagine you can't just like if you could just magically flip a switch and move everybody into a different space. It would probably short circuit most people's minds, right. Like it's it's that different from what they're accustomed to and what they were expecting growing up. Mm hmm. Wow, that's fascinating. Yeah,

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 46:17
but because lots of people don't realize that just give me a minute.

Scott Benner 46:27
No, you're fine. Do we have to shoot somebody away?

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Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 47:32
Yeah, my brother is just looking for my car keys. So yeah, it's people don't realize that we didn't wait for driving to to start developing very quick. Well,

Scott Benner 47:55
are you broke? Are you back? You're not back. Tell me when you can hear me again. Hello, hello. Oops.

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 48:11
Sorry, mixed environment.

Scott Benner 48:13
I'm so sorry. Hey, I gotta cut you off. You. You were gone for about 20 seconds. So I apologize. But you the last thing I heard you say was it didn't just happen with driving? Yes. Yeah. Okay. I'm sorry.

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 48:27
Yeah. So I'm saying it didn't just happen when we started driving, but it would it started. Very long time ago. We had women working in, in businesses in medicine, and academia, their Dean's, they're working everywhere. From very long time ago, my mom was one of them. And then driving was a very, very minor compared to what we were empowered to do. Long time ago. What was going on is that for some reason, they associated driving with some religious restrictions, which wasn't a right. Connection. It was never a true connection that was made, right? It was very easy for it to like, stay there. Don't touch it. Okay, that's fine. Just keep it it's not really preventing us from doing anything. We can still study, we can still travel, we can still go to the US and do PhD, we can come back and be prime ministers, etc. So it was never a barrier. But

Scott Benner 49:47
if I had to go Yeah. All right. If I had to guess it sounds like one of those things that men who wanted you to wash their clothes and make them food thought, whoo. If we start letting women drive, they're going to get out in the world and figure out it's not as much fun to do my laundry as I told them it was, doesn't that have like sort of like that just like the idea of you restrict somebody travel or their ability to see other people or interact with other people who have different ideas, then you restrict their ability to dream those things. And then you can kind of it's easier to control them than I would imagine.

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 50:19
Yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah. Although we we wasn't just about like watching the laundry. It's more like, it's more deeper than that. But yeah, it's 100%. True. I, I get I still meet people are compensated with people who would still feel threatened by by having their wife striving for the same exact reason, although they weren't admitted. He would tell you Oh, no, I'm afraid it's too crazy out there. People don't drive nicely, oh, I don't have money to buy another car. They will, they will use all these other excuses. But if you start pushing and pushing and pushing here come to the, to this true, true idea behind it is that it's such Right,

Scott Benner 51:05
yeah, you get you get frightened that people will see a world and think, Wow, this is better than the world I live in. And not come back. Yeah, I mean, and when you're, when you're so accustomed to that being the truth. I mean, giving it away, if you look at it from the male perspective, like just giving it away, must be it must be difficult. You know, I mean, I'm, I'm 50. And in America, you know, I was I was I became a stay at home father in my 20s. It was incredibly uncommon at that time, when I when I did it. And it was looked at unfavorably by most of the older people in my life, they mostly looked at me like, Oh, he's taking advantage of her. And he should be working. And they didn't understand that we thought that this was a the best balance for us, you know, and the way we can make things work. And I will tell you that there have been times when I'm growing up, where I think I love the way my life worked out. But you do wonder sometime like what was it like to, you know, 1950s America, come home and have a bunch of people just treating you like a king walking through the door? You know what I mean? Like, that's never happened to me in my entire life. I don't think I would want that. But might have been cool. Cool to see it one time just to see what it was like, you know, my example about the laundry is because I'm the one that does the laundry at the house. And I want to get away from it. Yeah, I hate doing the laundry. But that's that's not the point. The point is that you guys are making these amazing leaps. And are they? Are they transitioning? I would think not just in the medicine, but everywhere because you're getting new ideas. People have been exposed to more, I mean, you you might well see a real, a real Renaissance.

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 52:55
Right, actually, with medicine, the medicine started to advance in the country, way, way, way, way back. It was actually one of the few specialties that the country didn't really, or the country sponsored all endeavors related to medicine, from the early ages of this country. So that's why if you compare hospitals in Saudi Arabia, specifically as compared to the other Middle Eastern countries, even other Gulf countries, we have some of the best physicians and hospitals I'm not saying this because I'm Saudi, but this because really, really it's it's it's true. They spend a lot of money in this in the country invested a lot in most of them are prepared either in Canada, Germany, UK, US, and most of them, they've spent their fellowship there. We still collaborating with big hospitals, and big. I'm not sure how you call those kind of companies, but those who develop hospitals. Yeah. So yeah, we a lot of ongoing businesses that started decades ago.

Scott Benner 54:16
Yeah, they're like private for profit hospitals. Hmm. Right. Exactly. Yeah. Well, I just had a question on the tip my tongue and just fell right out of my head. Damn. Shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, where did it go?

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 54:32
Say you're asking about the transition? Yeah,

Scott Benner 54:35
I'm sorry. I blanked out for a second. But yeah, um, the, the idea I'm wondering about is, will like, at what point do we see the information that was brought back to other places, refined by other places, and built on top of like, that's because I don't think that diabetes care. In the US is particularly finished, right? It's better than it was. But you can still go to plenty of places who are operating like it's 10 or 15 years ago. And so my expectation, well, I guess it's my hope is that the diabetes care will become more, two way, meaning people won't go into doctors offices and just be told, Do this, do this, do this. And then you come back, and we'll measure it again later. And we'll change some things. Like I want to see people in a position of power in a position to say, I'm going to make a change to my Basal insulin, or I'm going to, you know, I'm going to come to realize that this meal needs more insulin than this other meal, and not just use some carb ratio, and just, you know, let my blood sugar be high for four or five hours afterwards. And I'm wondering if this spreading of information won't in time lead to people understanding that better? But I mean, do you think people understand that they need to be more proactive with diabetes care? Or do you think that that understanding exists some places and not others?

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 56:13
What what's good about type one diabetes, specifically, that it's affecting the, unfortunately, at least considering that the prevalence is increasing with recently compared to before, I think it's being affecting the gender, the new generation, who are very, let's say, first of all, they're tech savvy, most of them, they are, they are being raised differently than kids before. So most of them, they, they do things because they want to do what they need to be convinced the you cannot tell them what to do anymore. You need to convince them why they need to do things. So this type of mentality or mindset, is, will make me think that it's possible. Because you see them now I, I interact with a lot of like, let's say, school, school aged school age, kids to dollar since they they're very mature compared to we when we were at their age, and they're very independent, more getting there, they're given more opportunities to practice their independence compared to us back in the days, specifically girls, for example, I was not, I was never allowed to go to pointment alone or everything, my mom would be very worried. So she prepared to go with me. Now, they do everything alone. So I don't I think that this was tacitly tait the implementation of like self care of all the principles of self care or individualized care. However, what I think still might be a barrier is the approach from medicine itself. The like, I think health care providers are not confident enough that those kids are able to do that. And that's why they maybe insist on depending on the parents, so you know, that's this age generation difference where you as an as an adult don't think that they know enough, or they don't trust them enough. But unless if we start adopting this new mentality that no, this new generation is able to do it, just simply because they are raised differently. They've been allowed to experience everything they've been allowed to do do things alone, so they are stronger than when we were at their age. So I think the change needs to start from that provider itself.

Scott Benner 59:05
It's exciting, isn't it to see a generation of people who are less restricted than the one before them, and to see what they kind of do with it. And, you know, obviously, everyone doesn't take it in a great direction, but some people really do. And that idea of self care for medicine really translates to self care for a person in total, just their ideas and their goals and their focuses. Everything is within their control, I guess, and no one's telling you what to do with it. So they're able to explore directions and your people are going to find people are going to find lives that they just never would have been able to find in the past, because they felt so I mean, it's not even that you just felt so much but your parents were scared, like you said, and they would insist Still that fear on you whether that fear was safety, or religion or government or whatever it ends up being, you know, you can't do that. Or we don't do this. We can't say this. We can't go here. I mean, you can't play a flute outside of your house. And now that just, I'm super excited about where, where it's heading. I think this is the a very exciting generation of people to pay attention to. I've always thought that I was interested that you said it to. So yeah, they're

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 1:00:25
very, very, very self determined for their age, honestly.

Scott Benner 1:00:29
Yeah. It's crazy. My daughter made 35 If you talk to her, and she's exactly she's 16.

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 1:00:34
Yeah. Yeah, like, if you notice, especially now, these days, for example, I have three brothers. One of them is 40. Of course, they're all adults, but they all can spend time with the friends from all different age groups, like they all together that they have 10 years different from each other. But when they gather with their friends, they have friends from all age groups, and they enjoy their time they travel together, they do things and look, wow, before we didn't do that, we would stick to people at our age. Yeah, even for me, when I when I gather with with my family, we can spend hours and hours conversating with 16 years old, and you would never feel like she's only 16

Scott Benner 1:01:22
I interviewed three girls who were like 1315 and 17. I interviewed them together. They're these three friends who live on this island together. And they all have diabetes. So I was like, I'll just, you know, I never done an interview with that many people before. And it was a little it felt like hectic to me sometimes. But when I got to the end, I thought, huh, that's crazy. I'm, I could be their parents. And we just had a very normal conversation. It was, it was fascinating. Three girls taking care of their diabetes that you know, 15 I think 1617 Like, whatever they were there, they're young, you know, and they just didn't come off as young. Like, don't get me wrong, they're still, you know, they're a little giggly sometimes. And you know, they maybe don't follow sarcasm as well as an older person would or stuff like that. But they're just they have thoughtful, they know who they are. I guess that's really what it ends up being is you ask them a question. And they know the answer. Because they're connected to themselves. They're not just these robots that their parents are controlling through life. They're their autonomous people, and is absolutely lovely, you know, really great, right? I don't.

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 1:02:34
So, again, good. Going back to the transition. Yeah, I think maybe they are better off compared to other generation. But I think still, right, that the purpose of transition clinics, sometimes it's really not only for the patient themselves, but really, it's for the provider to, to prepare for this transition. Because we we don't have some somewhere in the middle, we either have a pediatric who's very nice, and who will involve the whole family. And then all of a sudden, we will have an adult endocrinologist who is used to older people, and he was just asked specific questions, and he's not going to dig deeper with the patient and just tell them a list of things that they need to do. And then they just go home.

Scott Benner 1:03:25
Yeah, that's a shame.

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 1:03:28
Hey, but for this specific generation that we just said, I think, physician physicians or, let's say, providers in general, whether professional nurse practitioners, they need to be prepared to trust them. Or at least to be able to assess those kids from different standards or standpoint, not just use our our own ideas that oh, they're they're young, by default. We shouldn't trust them. Or by default, they shouldn't be controlling their condition 100%, etc.

Scott Benner 1:04:07
Yeah, I mean, there are people who are able to do things that their age wouldn't indicate sometimes, and those people shouldn't be left behind. Because you're like, Oh, well, they're, they're 13 they don't understand that I've had kids come on the show, that are astonishingly good at taking care of their diabetes. And they're, they're young, I have one coming up soon, a girl living in Russia, and she's young and found the podcast on her own and figured everything out by herself. It's fascinating, you know, but it's really, really cool. And I think that that shouldn't be taken from people like everyone's not going to get it on a deeper level, but everybody should have the opportunity to try. You know, that's, um, it seems like the old way of thinking about it was most of you aren't gonna understand this. So I'm not going to bother explaining it to anybody. You know, answer my questions. The dials us a little more here. That's it. That's, um, and now there's glucose sensing technology, which just opens your eyes to what's really happening with your blood sugar. Fascinating, you know? Yeah. So what is your goal? Like, what do you, you got all this education, you came home, you're living a, you know, a different lifestyle in Saudi than probably, you know, two generations ago if your family did? What what are you going to do with everything you've amassed? What is your? What is your hope?

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 1:05:31
Okay. Two big questions of carrier? Yeah, it's a big question. It's a very big question. And then it also keeps changing, I think, because sometimes what you come back, hoping that you want to do is really not feasible for probably not, not going to say not possible, but it will might take you years and years to even do 10% of it. But so you show you I think, what what parts of resilience mean is even your goals, we need to keep modifying them, not necessarily lowering your expectation of yourself. But know, maybe you now have a better perspective of how is it really going on here? Because I may, I may had ideas about what I want to do. But when you come here and experience, life, here are the flow of things and what exactly needed, you might start realizing that there are other other areas that needs to be worked on as compared to what you had in your mind. Or instead of this one, this is more important for the country at this time, specifically. So this is what's been happening with me is that I've been trying to find the right way to reach or not reach, because I don't think there should be one goal that you reach it, and then you're done. No, it's always changing random underneath. So the plan is, when I did my PhD, I focused on cognitive functioning, and how it affects their school performance. And then eventually, their chances of getting accepted in colleges and then getting good jobs for patients with renal failure. But now I'm trying to expand it more on other kids with chronic illnesses. Because what happened, especially with renal, or children with renal failure, although it's considerably a rare condition, especially in developed countries, it's still the focus in their care is mainly stabilizing them. Physiologically, at least, or maintaining Yoni is at least, to stay alive and decrease mortality, decrease morbidity, etc. But the advancement in career or schooling is not a priority at all. Which is I understand why it started like that. But I also don't understand why it continued. Of course, initially, we will just want to make sure they survive, right? But then eventually, what is it just make them survive, but how about their quality of life? How about their opportunities to pursue their life goals without affecting their economy, IQ, status, etc. So that was my plan is to go back and dig deep in the system, and find out those gaps where those kids sometimes just don't go to school because they get admitted quite often to the hospital. So the family feels a burden, and then they stop sending the kid to school. So those kids will, will will not be able to catch up with the schooling system. And some of them don't end up never going.

Scott Benner 1:09:16
They just stop advancing right you so you just end up being as mature and as your age of when you're diagnosed with something like it's almost like getting sick ends your life instead of exactly right instead of figuring out a way to incorporate it into your life.

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 1:09:36
Exactly. Even sometimes when they get the kidney transplanted the new kidney transplant and they still because of fear from getting infection, it's some families don't send them to school. Of course, we don't have such a role where they can be where they need where they can be referred to protection services due to that, it's still not technically considered neglect. We do have child protection service but like not send them to school per se for a chronic condition is not really something clear cut, you know? So, so yeah, sometimes out of fear, they just don't send them to school and continues being a problem. So I, this is this is where I started developing the research ideas, why and what can we do to prevent that? I heard when I was in the city, I heard that their start, they have some tutoring programs where they can come to the child during his data session, and offer him some schooling, etc. We didn't have that. We don't have that yet. So my hope is was to create this program where it can be a collaboration between Ministry of Health Ministry of Education, where we can have a whole program established for children with chronic illnesses in which they have regular follow up regular cognitive assessments, psychosocial assessment, and it's, you know, embedded in the education system for these kids. So they can sign up on this program once they are diagnosed. So we track them early on, we identify any limitations if they have, if they have specific problems with math, per se, just due to for example, anemia, maybe with with renal patients, for example. Maybe they will have specific problems with memorizing due to anemia and poor memory, etc. Do you recognize that? Do we have that into consideration? If yes, how and what we're going to do about it? It's unfair that those kids are being treated as normal kids, or they should they have all the right to be treated as normal kid, but I'm, I'm afraid that sometimes we will miss some limitations that are specifically to their condition. But we don't know. Yeah, so that they don't do anything.

Scott Benner 1:12:12
So they don't become disposable. And you don't just see them as a they've got an issue. And now that means they shouldn't enjoy the same ideas that everybody else gets the hope for. It's just exactly. It's amazing. That's beautiful. So you keep bringing them, the idea is to keep bringing them services, that keep them up to speed while they're taking care of their health. Right. Yeah, that's it. I mean, it's so simple, right? Doesn't it just make sense? You know, yeah, people should not because,

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 1:12:41
as I, as I mentioned to you, when I came back, carry alized, we have other gaps that should start before that, that needs to be fixed. Before we start implementing such programs, for example, we we had, we don't have school nurses yet. Okay. So when you first think about such a program, right, you would think immediately of the school nurse who will be doing the evaluation, or the follow up for this kid, at least in the school, right? Who will be going to do this, for example, cognitive assessment or these regular assessments, I was hoping that this can be implemented in the school system. But if we don't have a school nurse for a specific school or for this specific district, then who's going to do that? Right. So this is where I started realizing, okay, let me modify my goal and start looking for, like, other things related to that to see where the gap is where you can start fixing the the issue is,

Scott Benner 1:13:41
Is it crazy to think that school nursing could become a thing? Like the gift somebody got behind it? Would there be a way to get it funded? And and

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 1:13:50
I think the funding is just what's what's what's preventing it's, it's, it's a as a law, it has been issued four years ago. But now each hospital needs to have school nurse implementation. Not yet. And I think mainly because of funding issues.

Scott Benner 1:14:11
So you have to you really do have to jumpstart things, they don't just either things start out of necessity, or they start because someone who has the the ability financially gets behind an idea and moves it forward quickly. There's no, there's no other way that things begin really.

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 1:14:30
Exactly. And you know, what's the major major problem here is the lack of data, unlike in the US were already well established. The search data are there to be to support your ideas, let's say yeah, to support your ideas or to support your proposals for policy health policy changes cetera, we still don't have that. So that's why you come to realize that okay, I need data. In order for me to come and approach decision makers or leaders in the healthcare sector, where they have a lot of huge priorities to come and tell them, you know, what, stop and fund school nursing system? First question that will come to mind. Why, why why now? Why is it urgent, but if you have the data, and if you can show that this is exactly what's going on, those there might be facing additional difficulties making families additional additional difficulties finding jobs. They don't, they just can't, they are not allowed to make good GPAs, basically, just because of how their condition is. So yeah, this is my help starting from the basics and trying to establish some database.

Scott Benner 1:15:42
Well, I hope you are able to figure out a way to make it happen, because it's obvious while you're talking to me, like it makes me feel this way. It's it's, it's obvious why things take so long to come together. Right? Like, it's just it's clear, there's so many moving parts and so many people that you have to talk into it, there's money that has to be raised, and you have to actually do the physical thing, it's not enough to just have a great idea, you actually have to accomplish it afterwards. And then it takes time, then you imagine that you bring in the school nurses, and some of them you hire suck, and then you have to be replaced with other schools, you know, it takes time to get it working smoothly. And thanks. And we all don't have that much time. Like, we're all just like, hey, like my kids in school for this long, or my life is only this long. And then people get frustrated that things like that don't exist. And that frustration can sometimes end up killing your motivation. Yeah, it just takes away your drive. You just think, Oh, I'll never get this done. I might as well go do something different. And you need people to do those difficult things and have those fights. Right? Yeah. So you might as well be one of those people go get them? You know, it's got somebody's got to do it. Somebody has to decide. This isn't I mean, listen, it's a much different scale. But when I began this podcast, I thought, I'm going to talk to people about diabetes the way they need to be spoken to, and not the way that the establishment says, okay, like that, that just needs to start there. Like, we can't just keep telling people, Oh, it's okay, you're fine, you're doing great. Don't worry about it. You know, meanwhile, they're having all the problems that come with out of control blood sugars, and then they're being told by somebody don't worry about it, when they could have gotten actionable information that would have helped them, maybe pull things together a little better. And and instead, we were, you know, oh, we don't talk to people like that. That's dangerous. You can't tell them like you can't tell them how insulin works. Like, shouldn't we at least understand how insulin works? I mean, how many people don't understand how to Pre-Bolus a meal don't have never even been it's never been mentioned to them ever. And they have diabetes. It's, it's crazy. You know, so I just thought, well, I'm going to do it, and we'll see what happens. So sometimes you just got to leap. Because trust me, there were people telling me not to do it. established ideas were very much against it. And I had to fight through many times of people, you know, speaking poorly about me behind my back, or sometimes to my face and telling me that I'm doing it wrong, I'm doing it wrong. And I was like, well, you can do what you're gonna do. And I'm gonna, I'm gonna do what I'm gonna do. And it worked out very nicely. And I hope you have the same kind of success.

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 1:18:20
What's your background? If I may? I have

Scott Benner 1:18:23
no background with the speaker.

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 1:18:25
I know, I mean, education. No, I

Scott Benner 1:18:28
know. I know you do. And I don't have any background. I graduated from high school. I went to, I went to work in very blue collar jobs. Okay, I met a woman who was nice enough to recognize that I might be more than my station, if that makes sense. We made a family. And my second child, our daughter, Arden was diagnosed with type one, when she was two, I began using the skills I had writing to write about it online when she was three. And about seven years ago, after developing, I don't want to call it a system, but developing a way of managing blood sugars no matter what you're eating, and keeping a one sees my daughter's a once he's been in the fives for like seven years. And she has just no diet restrictions. And it's because I fundamentally understand how to use insulin. So about seven years ago, I started this podcast, and

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 1:19:26
I beat this podcast is seven years old, seven years

Scott Benner 1:19:29
old. Yeah. And it's been heard, you know, it's been downloaded. I think we're up to about 4 million now. And it's all over the world. And if you go to just as an example, the Facebook page for the podcast, you will see people constantly all day long, either sharing their struggles and helping each other or sharing their successes and motivating other people. It's really, like astonishing, you know, and it just was, and I will honestly tell you that on day one This somebody established in this community told me you can't do this. Do not talk to people like this, that you can't tell people this stuff. And I was like, Well, I think I think I can. And I'm going it's not a secret. Yeah, well, it is a secret because people are scared to. They're scared to say anything that isn't concrete about diabetes. And I believe that people are smart enough to hear nuance, and apply it to their life. Crazy me. Right. Right.

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 1:20:27
So yeah, what's the problem telling people that is, is not concrete? Now after COVID? Everybody knows that? Nothing is concrete. Yeah, right. I think people are, I think, again, you know, what, Scott, I really think it's the old mentality that the younger generation are fragile, don't tell them this, they don't need to know this. They don't need to know all the details behind this, and, and so on. So I think you, you came to realize from your experience with your daughter that they are not, they're actually sometimes stronger than us, because they are just born in a different generation. So even I think it came in the right time. Despite all the the recommendation not to it came at the right time, where were kids at this age, are prepared for this level of knowledge for this, that's for these specifications that they're able to do with it, especially that this came with technology, advancing technology, and having this smartphone in my hands with all those potentials that it has, it became very easy for this generation to absorb all those details and apply it in their daily life. Unlike us before, I mean, our generation, we only had TV, and we only watched whatever they tell us to watch whatever they have on the TV. But now they have this, they can choose every moment they have the ability to choose what to read what to listen to, and what to write. So all this gives him this capacity to deal with all the details. Maybe you we are more fragile than them now. Oh, no.

Scott Benner 1:22:15
Yeah, I mean, and you just keep getting to enrich yourself any way that you see fit. And I'll tell you to, here's an aspect of forward thinking that impacts the podcast success that you would never consider. But it's it's this is that 1015 years ago, if I would have done this, let's say the technology existed, and I could have done this. It's a full time job. So I can't I have to sell ads on this podcast, if I don't, I can't do this, right. So 10 or 15 years ago, if I had a podcast, this same podcast, and it had ads on it, people would have yelled at me for making money from diabetes, they'd say, Well, you can't make money off of someone else's illness. And ads are insulting to me. And trust me, I've seen it happen to people. But somewhere in the last handful of years, people became savvy enough about the internet, to understand that if you want somebody to give you something that is consistent, and quality, that they're going to need to put time and effort into it, and that they have lives as well, and bills and families. And so suddenly, no one. It's it's an idea that's gone in the world. Like no one watches a YouTube video. And when the ad comes up, yells and screams at the ad you go alright, I understand I'm not paying for this, the ads paying for this, I get it. And now that that's acceptable. That actually supports me because honestly, this is I record with you today, someone tomorrow, another person on Thursday, in the last 48 hours, I've edited together five episodes, and prepared them to be online, I've probably put, I've probably put 45 hours into the podcast in the last four or five days. And wow. And that's a that's a job, right? So now I'm suddenly able to do that because of people's acceptance and growth and understanding of how the world works. Everybody needs to understand reality so that they can have reactions and experiences that are real, and not just, you know, I'm going to be mad at you because you have a podcast and it makes money and I wish I had a podcast you don't I mean or something like that. It's just it's right. It's a growth of people that's allowing us to help people grow. It's really cyclical.

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 1:24:28
Right? I bet you also have some of your fans are probably YouTubers too, right? Because now all kids are YouTubers. They all talk in the YouTube language. I have my nephews they they know all the details behind how to become a YouTuber. They know how much money they will give you. You they know what what is the guidelines, and how long is your YouTube should be and how many likes you get in order for you to sustain them. I'm talking about kids who are 11 years old. Old are nine years old, you know, the language I'm talking right now is something very advanced. I mean, so that's why I, the the, the it's easy for this generation to understand why you need to maintain ads in your right. Well, you need to have ads in your show, etc. It's very easy, unlike before. So I think it all happened just in the right time.

Scott Benner 1:25:23
It really did. And there also seems to be this idea now that people seem to want good for other people. Like it's not as competitive anymore, I guess, you know. So, you know, so they look at you and they go, Oh, you have an ad in your pocket. That's cool. I hope to have a blah, blah, blah, you know, and they're, they're excited by the, by the possibility. And I talk this way about diabetes as well. Because there used to be a fervor an idea that you did not share your success with insulin online, like don't show people flat graphs, don't show them that you could Bolus for pancakes, because you're showing off and you're making other people feel badly. Well, I didn't believe that what I thought was that if I could do it, then maybe you could believe that you could do it. Right. Like to have an example in front of me. That's like, wow, that's that's possible. Oh, okay. Well, I'll try that. And and I think that people feel the same way about the podcast, older people will look at me and say, Well, you make money from A what now. And they're almost mad about it. Because they because they work the last 30 years in a car, plant manufacturing cars, and I get it like in their mind, I'm sitting in a room and I'm just chatting. And but younger people are like, Oh, that's cool. Because they see it as a way to live. Whereas older people see it as a as a like, somehow, like you cheated. It's an otologist perspective. It's really terrific. I'm excited about what's to come. And I'm excited. There are people like you out there having thoughts like this.

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 1:26:53
One more last. One more last idea before. Before, it's just a toy for me. I think what's what was although I, I was a bedside nurse, and specifically the unit I worked at was sub specialize in endocrine and natural. So I dealt with lots of newly diagnosed diabetes kids with a lot of decay after they're stabilized, of course, not in critical care, but in the unit. How, however, my experience with one of my cousins who had type one diabetes, since he was I think, 11. And then with Julia, specifically, being the first close friend of mine who, who had diabetes. So it What was nice about this experience is that it simply normalized. living with diabetes, even for me, for someone who was from the health care area, but I never lived with diabetes daily, I never had diabetes as part of my daily conversation or routine or where I have to, like, think about it all the time. Whenever we talk about oh, she will check her blood sugar, she will mention her blood sugar then often mentioned something about the diet or today I had my blood sugar, blah, blah, blah. That's why I'm feeling this now. And it was part of the daily conversation. So it was to me like something normal. I'm not saying normal in terms of like, of course, they're not normal in terms of their physiological needs are different, but at least the they're not isolated anymore. Or just they have to be isolated. Just because you have this condition. It helps having this normalization making even the conversation the terminology. Very, you know, very witty call it it's reacquainted. So everyone knows, and it's not something, oh, you have diabetes. And I don't I don't need to feel sorry about you anymore. I just feel that this is part of life. Someone has a B to someone doesn't and that's it. This is how life but before you don't know that, that there are a lot of people are experiencing this on a daily basis and you have to deal with it. So what I like about approach of Julia, where she used to share this with us all the time is was it was normalizing it to me I was not stressed out or I mean worried when I'm whenever this topic is mentioned in front of me. I'm more prepared to deal with it, even psychologically, that's just because it happens in front of me all the time. Yeah. So I think even podcasts like yours serves this purpose unintentionally, where you're meeting with people, different countries, and you're normalizing that the experience of type one diabetes and making it Very special. Honestly, it's

Scott Benner 1:30:01
an out and proud mentality. It really is. It's just like, I'm not gonna hide anything, you get to see it. And then like you said, after I see it a number of times, it becomes normal to me something that I hadn't seen before. And then it that's it, the issue is gone, it just disappears into the ether. You just, that's all you have to do is, you know, what is it? What do they say? Sunshines the best antiseptic? Is that the saying? I'm probably not, right, right. Now I've said it, and I don't wanna hold on a second, the sunshine I'm gonna find it is the Sunshine is the best disinfectant, which just means, you know, bring things out in the light of day and it it takes care of the rest, you know, and that's amazing, right? Yeah. It's very exciting. So would you say in general, then, based on your studies, and what you're saying is that is to take someone with an illness, who and understand hopefully, that that illness isn't such that it's going to, you know, end their life, if it's something you're going to live with, that you need to get up and get back to normal? As fast as you can. And that you might need to understand that you're gonna need some support in different places. Yes, but that the most important thing you can do is to not stop, keep going. And don't give away the idea that the life you thought you could have is still available to you.

Unknown Speaker 1:31:25
Right? Yeah, absolutely.

Scott Benner 1:31:26
I love it. All right, we did it. Thank you.

Dr. Arwa Al Hamed 1:31:30
Oh, thank you. Thank you for giving me that chance to share my perspective from 1000 miles away. I hope things went very well with the recording. And thank you very much for this opportunity.

Scott Benner 1:31:45
You're very welcome. No, everything's great. You sound terrific. I've got I've got your recording captured here. And I am I'm super excited to share with you. A huge thank you to one of today's sponsors, G voc glucagon, find out more about Chivo Kaipa pen at G voc glucagon.com Ford slash juicebox you spell that GVOKEGL You see ag o n.com. Forward slash Juicebox. Podcast like to thank touched by type one for their continued in long time support of the Juicebox Podcast check them out at touched by type one.org and find them on Facebook and Instagram. Don't forget the T one D exchange T one D exchange.org forward slash juicebox. Take a few minutes and fill out the survey.

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#587 Carb Counting Mess

Laura lives in Switzerland and she has type 1 diabetes.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
You're listening to Episode 587 of the Juicebox Podcast. Welcome Friends

Today we're gonna be speaking with Laura. She's from Switzerland, is in her 20s and has type one diabetes. You can find her on Instagram at carb counting mess. Today while you're listening, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan, or becoming bold with insulin. I'd like to remind you that if you're from United States, and you have type one diabetes, or you're from the United States, and you're the caregiver of someone with type one, you can complete the T one D exchange survey in less than 10 minutes right from your sofa. right on your phone. T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox. It's pretty much what I got here, but there's a lot of music left. Oh, you know what, check out the Facebook page Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes, actually, that's on the Instagram to even put something up on Tik Tok. But the contents not quite ready yet, but you could still follow me to get a head start Juicebox Podcast this episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by TrialNet. Find out if you or a loved one have the genetic markers for type one diabetes for free at trial net.org. Forward slash Juicebox Podcast is also sponsored by the Contour Next One blood glucose meter, my favorite blood glucose meter, the one that I found to be the easiest to hold, to use to love to hold to caress to sing to it night contour next one.com forward slash juicebox. For clarity and honesty, I've never sung to a blood glucose meter. It just sounded sweet in the moment. And I guess if I'm coming clean, I've never crossed or one or held it lovingly either. But it's still a great meter contour next.com forward slash juice box.

Laura 2:16
My name is Laura. I'm 25 years old. I've had type one diabetes since 2007. And I live in Switzerland.

Scott Benner 2:25
Right off the bat. I'm very I'm aware of you from Instagram. Right? So that's how I know you. And I've never heard your voice before. And even though I recognize that you don't live in America, when you started speaking I got all excited.

Laura 2:43
Why? I was like, oh, Laura

Scott Benner 2:45
has like a an accent that I vaguely think might be not French but close to France ish. And then that was the best I could do. I said this Yeah, it's fun for me.

Laura 2:57
People actually have a hard time locating my accent. Because I'm, I feel like I'm all all over the place. I I watch a lot of American TV shows, and movies. But yeah, in the end, you can tell that I'm not native.

Scott Benner 3:16
Well, and so are you born and raised there.

Laura 3:21
I was actually born in Italy. But I moved to Switzerland when I was nine months old. So I basically grew up in Switzerland. But my parents are Italian. So I speak Italian at home. I actually grew up bilingual, so I speak Italian, German. And then in school we learn English, obviously and French and Spanish.

Scott Benner 3:47
Wow. So the English that you possess now, which is great by the way you got from school and from television. Yeah. Wow. That's impressive. I think if I watched Italian television, night and day, you'd be surprised that I would not learn one word.

Laura 4:05
Well, English is is quite easy to learn, honestly.

Scott Benner 4:08
Is that a dig? Or is that a good thing? What are you saying?

Laura 4:11
No, it's a good thing. I mean,

Scott Benner 4:15
your trashy little language is so easy to pick up for a mind like mine. So you grew up in Switzerland with Italian speaking parents? Yes. And what's the language? Is there a is there a national language in Switzerland? Is it English or is it French?

Laura 4:32
So actually, Switzerland has four national languages. So German, obviously, French, there's an Italian speaking part. And there's one which I guess it's best described as a mix between Italian and like German. And then there's like Swiss German, which is only spoken language. It's not very And it doesn't have any grammar. But it's the spoken language. So, and every region has their own accent. And sometimes they're so different that you, you can really understand someone from another region, which is very funny.

Scott Benner 5:19
But that's fascinating. But may I offer a critique? You can't say we have four national languages. That's like saying, If I said you, what's your favorite ice cream flavor? You can't say, well, here are my four favorite ice cream flavors that doesn't work that way. Well, Laura, you're gonna need to make a big sign, but I'm gonna stick and get outside and start protesting right now. It's gonna say pick a language. We'll do that after you get out there and get to work. Like you have nothing better to do. How old were you and you're diagnosed? I was 11 1114 years ago. Ish. Yeah. Is everyone impressed with me? subtracting one from five.

Laura 6:02
I'm very impressed. I was waiting for your joke.

Scott Benner 6:05
It's not a joke. I wish it was when I said 14. And you said yes. There's like a little band inside of my head that goes You did it.

Laura 6:14
I mean, technically, it's 13 and a half. But you know,

Scott Benner 6:17
but I like you going along with it. You listen to the podcast, you know not to disagree. That's obviously, obviously obviously. Oh, this is great. Are you a very sarcastic person?

Laura 6:28
Um, yeah, yeah. I'm with people. I know. Well, I tend to be very open and funny and step sarcastic. But I'm mostly a very shy person. Not very outgoing. Typically, with people I don't really know that.

Scott Benner 6:46
Yeah. How do you get to know people then?

Laura 6:51
Through my boyfriend, he was much more outgoing. Now I just, I just like to smile and people people respond to me smiling. So I guess so

Scott Benner 7:06
your boys breaker your boyfriend? Is the the trap basically. Yeah, he's the I think what they call the honeypot in some circles, right? And then, so he brings them in. And then you retain the ones that react to your smile.

Laura 7:25
Well, I mostly I smile. This is gonna sound weird. I smile at strangers sometimes. Just because I'm a, I don't know, a kind person. And I don't like to look grumpy. Okay. So, yeah, those are two main ways to, you know,

Scott Benner 7:47
learn, I do the same thing, but for a completely different reason. So I smile at everyone. I'll say hello to anyone who comes within like six feet of me if we're walking face to face together. But I just do it to see how they react like it to me. It's just a social experiment. Like I like it too. I should be clear. I'm not just effing with people, like I really do. I really am interested. I'm, I'm, I think I'm a pleasant person. And I do like to say hello. And I don't think people making eye contact and smile and things like that hold doors, that kind of thing. So I am very active when I'm in public like that. But I guess the secondary interest is to see how many people are. I think they're mostly shocked. I don't think they're put off. And I think that sometimes even when they're shocked, they'll rebound and you'll be past each other and they'll turn and go Oh, hello. Like it just they're not expecting it. But that might be an American, or even colloquial to my, my, where I live geographically, perhaps I'm not sure. But it so are you introverted?

Laura 8:53
Um, yeah, I guess you could say that. This interactive spend time alone. It's just it's not that I don't like other people. I just need to recharge my social batteries. So I've actually been enjoying COVID

Scott Benner 9:11
Because you're one of the people that's like, Wait, stay inside and don't go out. Oh, thank God finally.

Laura 9:18
Yeah, totally. I've been. Yeah, I've been loving spending so much time at home and just doing my own stuff, organizing, you know, stuff like that.

Scott Benner 9:29
So when you smile at somebody, is there not a concern that they'll engage you and then you'll have to spend some of your social capital on that.

Laura 9:38
I'm not that much because Swiss people aren't as friendly as American people. So most of the time, it's just a smile. People don't really smell black back. So it's just, you know, just being kind and whatever. But, so these people are very reserved and Not that talkative. So it's not a big problem.

Scott Benner 10:04
You think they're all pissed off? Because they know the rest of the world confuses Switzerland and Sweden.

Laura 10:09
Oh, my God. Yes. Please, please, to everyone stop confusing Switzerland and three, it's enough to say,

Scott Benner 10:16
well, in fairness, they both begin SW, and they're both in that version of the world over there ish. So for people who don't understand geography, or you know, spelling, it's the same place. I know, it is for me.

Laura 10:33
I mean, you know, it's funny, though, because I feel like Europeans know, so much more about the US than Americans know about Europe. So like, we watched the presidential election on CNN, we're very engaged. We knew, like, all the counties, and, you know, the blue counties in red counties. I could, you know, I know the names. But then American people confuse Switzerland and Sweden. I'm like, those are two different countries, people.

Scott Benner 11:07
We don't care. You should try being American. It's kind of fast. It's fantastic. Sometimes, my wife works with people daily from France, and Switzerland, Germany. And so I hear it more frequently. So I stopped myself before I make the Switzerland, Sweden mistake, but I have to, like, I have to, like set it in my mind correctly. Like even when you said Switzerland at the beginning, I was like, No, don't mess this up and say she's from Sweden at some point. So I had to, like put the thought into my head. I'm sorry. I'm very fascinated by you. So. But But okay, so you were diagnosed? Oh, God, I'm 11 years old. Is that what you said?

Laura 11:48
Yes. On 911 actually get out of here.

Scott Benner 11:51
Seriously. While the whole world was going through a tragedy, you had your own personal tragedy?

Laura 11:56
Oh, 911. Like 2000 700. Okay.

Scott Benner 12:02
All right. I guess my math could have been better when I should have said to myself, that was 21 years ago. And she said 11. And you were almost weren't even born? 20 When you were like four, right? Yeah. So now now we can see that between the math and the Switzerland, Sweden thing. You've thrown me off kilter. You all now know why I didn't take the LSAT ever is like how am I going to keep all that in my head at one time? Okay, so you're diagnosed in Switzerland? What's the protocol? How does it work? What do you remember?

Laura 12:36
Um, so I remember going to school in the morning, and then over lunch, we actually go home and eat lunch at home. And then instead of going back to school, in the afternoon, my mom picked me up and she said, oh, we need to go to the doctor to check something out. And at that point, I had been drinking tons and tons of water. I had been losing weight. I was pale, you know, to classical science. And I actually, I was 11. But I was so I started panicking when I didn't have a water bottle or access to tap water. Because I was so thirsty the entire time. And I would actually cry if I had to go to go out without a bottle. So my mom was like, This is not normal. And she went to Google, if I remember correctly, and typed in the symptoms, and it actually said type one diabetes. And so we went to our period to my pediatrician, and I, I think I had a urine test. And they checked for glucose. And obviously, there was lots of glucose. So they were like, Oh, you need to go to the ER immediately. So we went, I think to the Children's Hospital. Yeah, I think Children's Hospital. And I don't remember too much. Actually. I just remember my mom crying at some point. And going outside and actually getting myself my first my very first insulin shot. And I was diagnosed with a blood sugar of 33 million more, which is 600.

Scott Benner 14:37
Yeah, I have a couple of questions. So my first one is pretty basic. You go home every day for school for lunch from school for lunch. How far is school from home?

Laura 14:50
Um, it's about the 10 minute bus ride.

Scott Benner 14:53
So every day they pick you up, take you to school, then put you back on a bus take you home then come back and get you take you to school, then put you back on a bus and take you home.

Laura 15:05
No, actually. So Swiss children are very independent. So by the time they're in first grade, they actually go to school. Like alone. The parents, like don't bring them they don't pick them up. They go on the bus and get home alone.

Scott Benner 15:25
Yeah, I'm saying but the bus takes you the bus picks you up in the morning takes you to school, then it brings you home for lunch. Then it has to pick you back up again and take you back to school after lunch. Am I right?

Laura 15:36
Or no? Yeah, but it's on a school bus. We don't have school buses. What is it's just, it's just a normal bus. Like a like public transport.

Scott Benner 15:45
Oh, the boss. Not a bus. Not not like a bus that belongs to the school. Just the bus that runs around town.

Laura 15:52
No, no, no, no, just a bus.

Scott Benner 15:55
Gotcha. Okay. So I'm sorry. I know where to going down the wrong track here, but I can't help it. So do people trickle back in after lunch? Are people back on time?

Laura 16:06
Oh, we're sweet. They are back on time. I guess that's

Scott Benner 16:09
how the watches work. Right. So well. Yeah. Okay. So everybody's back on time. And then what's the gap of time that you're gone from the time it's like, Okay, I'm gonna go home now till I'm back. How long is that?

Laura 16:22
Um, so we I'd say, one and a half hours, maybe?

Scott Benner 16:29
Wow, that's sweet. can I describe to you my lunch at school, just very quickly, a bell rings in your ear. It's atrocious. You grab your books, sprint through a hallway that if I'm looking back now was honestly just one of those cattle shoots. They used to lead steer to slaughter, right. And then they just move you through quickly. You're banging into people. People are going the other way. You're dumped out into this horrible room where they give you a piece of bread soaked in Ragu sauce with four pieces of fake cheese on the top and they call it pizza. You have 20 minutes to eat it. Put your tray back and run to your next class. How does that sound to you? Awful. Yeah. And in those 20 minutes, you talk a lot about other people. So you know like you point over to other tables, make fun of kids. I was probably being made fun of by the table across from me. Just like chatting. People get into fistfights. None of that happened for you, huh?

Laura 17:32
No, luckily, that didn't happen. But when I went to high school I had to eat at the school. So

Scott Benner 17:39
like a common person. What is this? What did you still get 90 minutes for your nosh or

Laura 17:45
No, no, I wish. It was just like one period. I thought

Scott Benner 17:49
you were gonna tell me they came in and they would hold warm towels to your neck and forehead and free fresh. Always. So I'm sorry. So you're diagnosed in the hospital? You learned to give yourself a shot. You leave with needles in a meter? What did they set you up with? Do you remember?

Laura 18:07
So I was at the hospital for nine days. And I left with pens and just the meter. Okay. And I actually stayed on pens and the meter until I was probably like 1819. And then I switched to the adult Endo. And he actually put me on Dexcom.

Scott Benner 18:31
Okay, what did you I'm sorry, I'm gonna ask one more question before I move forward. You talked about, like panicking without water before you were diagnosed? Was that a a physical understanding that you'd be in some sort of distress or pain and that you wanted to have it to stop that? Or was it a psychological almost kind of god rolled desire? Do you remember?

Laura 18:59
I actually don't remember at all. Like, I don't even remember. I don't I don't remember being aware of my thirst. I don't remember losing weight. I like I was just living my life. And just

Scott Benner 19:15
dying. You know, same time. I'm dying. I just, you know, I asked though, right? Because you're the first person to describe it that way. And I thought, oh, maybe she's got a remembrance of it. Meanwhile, I don't expect anybody's going to. I just, I mean, I assume this is just your body in survival mode telling you, you know, in not not in words, but telling you hey, if we get away from this water, we're in trouble. But it's just it was just kind of fascinating. So okay, so I'm sorry. So when you got to an adult endocrinologist, they gave you a Dexcom what were your outcomes like as a child and what were they like after you could see your data?

Laura 19:56
So that's so that's the interesting part. So while I was at the children's hospital there like that specific Children's Hospital is famous for being not up to date, and like, even now. So that's great.

Scott Benner 20:18
Yeah, it doesn't do a great job and everyone knows it.

Laura 20:23
Right? No, but so during puberty, I was I was actually doing quite well. My agencies were like in high sixes, low sevens, mostly high sixes. But obviously, my blood sugar was a whole other story. So I was, you know, giving insulin after I ate my blood sugar would would shoot up to 400 and then come back down. But still, I was one of the kids that was doing so well. And my, my endo at the Children's Hospital kept telling me oh, you're doing so well, you're doing so well. I wish everyone was like you. So they even gave me a one point when Tresiba came to Switzerland. I was one of the first kids to try out to see that. Because the end was like, your control is so good that we can, like we can see the effect of Joseba on your blood sugar's. So we want you to try it. And so I thought I was doing quite well, when, in fact, I wasn't. And my parents kind of knew what something was up. But they Yeah, it was a very difficult situation, because so to get back to get back to, like, Swiss children are very independent. That something that, you know, gets pushed very hard. Like, children need to be able to look out for themselves from a very young age. And so when I was diagnosed, and at the hospital, they were like, You need to take care of this. You as an 11 year old, you are in charge of our charge of everything, and your parents, you know, they don't have to do anything. Yeah. And, you know, the doctor told me this, and I was like, okay, that's, that's my job. Now, I need to get this under control. But obviously, as an 11 year old, I had no idea I had no tools, no education, to get even close to managing this disease. And so the end, though, was actually pushing away my parents, and my parents wanted to help me, but I was pushing them away. Because the end told me it was my job to manage this disease, so I didn't want their help. And it put us in this very strange triangle. And it caused so much stress and fighting with my parents. And just

Scott Benner 23:29
tell me, tell me why fighting because you needed their help. And you could feel they wanted to give it to you, but they were stopping themselves.

Laura 23:40
I knew, I kind of knew I needed their help. But I didn't want to accept it. Because I, I felt like a failure. If I had accepted their help. It meant that I had failed because I wasn't able to manage this disease by myself. And also, because the doctor kept telling me, you know that like, they told my parents, she needs to come. Like, also, every three months, you go to the Endo. And from the very start, I like I went on my own. My parents weren't even in the room. So

Scott Benner 24:21
you take a bus. What did they draft your parents drive you?

Laura 24:27
I don't remember. I think that drove me. And then they waited outside. But I'm not sure. Actually.

Scott Benner 24:35
That's fascinating. But no, but that really is interesting. I mean, going back to how you and this is from the beginning, from from the very beginning at your youngest a very start. Well, I guess you also described a society where first and second graders were expected to jump on buses and make it to school on their own. Right. Right. So that's the idea. What what is that? Is that the? Is that the German influence on Switzer. What do you think that is?

Laura 25:01
Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Because my parents are Italian. So they've got, you know, they've still got some Italian mentality left in them,

Scott Benner 25:13
you take off the afternoons, what do they do? No, no, no, no

Laura 25:17
budget, they're very protective. So for them, it was extra hard to see their child struggle and not being able to do anything. And they, they actually got quite angry at my Endo, because because he was pushing them away. And I was clearly, you know, I was doing okay, but I could have done so much better. And, and it just created a huge, you know, resent feeling of resentment. And, to this day, I, I actually can't really talk to them about diabetes. I, yeah, it's just, it's, it's strange, I

Scott Benner 26:03
am interested if this thing that your doctor was doing, if it had any benefit, or if it was all kind of negative. So obviously, first of all, he created a barrier between you and your parents and diabetes. But did it turn you into some like, amazing practitioner of diabetes? Where you just like, Oh, I've got my Dexcom now, am I a one sees 4.9? And I'm amazing at this, because I'm so accustomed to doing it by myself, or did that not happen either. Like, I'm trying to decide if this is just a bad idea, from the doctor's point of view?

Laura 26:36
It was just a bad idea, honestly, seems like it to me,

Scott Benner 26:39
I'm just wondering what you thought I could,

Laura 26:41
yeah, I I hear you talking about, you know, parents supporting their child, and when to you know, give the child more responsibilities and stuff around diabetes management, and and so many people say, Oh, if If only my parents had supported me, or, you know, helped me out. And I'm in the same boat. If I could go back out, I would, you know, I would choose. I would actually, you know, want my parents to support me and, and get to know the disease, because, honestly, I don't think they even know how to check my blood sugar with a meter. Because they've never had to do that. They have never given me an insulin shot. They never had to use glucagon. They know how to carb to count carbs. Because they, they did do that for me. But they never got up at night to check my blood sugar. It's just everything was on me. And it's a lot for a teenage girl to to carry this burden. And just course, yeah, I just felt like a failure the entire time. Sorry.

Scott Benner 28:04
Yeah, I don't. I mean, listen, the part of it that makes it so crazy, in my opinion, is, is that the story you're telling should fit more of a 20 year ago? Diagnosis, not an 11 year ago diagnosis. But maybe that's just the difference between the US and where you are? I don't know. But like, it's interesting, because I have to remind myself while you're talking, you're 25, you've only had diabetes for like, a decade. Because seriously, I know I'm repeating myself, your story sounds older than that, like delta have to do it themselves. And here it is. And by the way to praising you, for an A one, see, without any consideration for how you got to it. They didn't care. They didn't care that you were 400. I'm assuming if you were 400. That means you were also 50 Some of the times two.

Laura 28:54
Yeah. And the thing is, they didn't know that because I they didn't check my meter, they checked my diary. So like, the night before my end appointment, I would just write some random numbers in my diary. And that would be it. So I dried like 120 Maybe 200. You know, like the not perfect numbers, but okay, numbers and, and they just bought that they never checked a meter.

Scott Benner 29:31
You just feel you're like what gets me through this conversation. I'll put in numbers that aren't perfect, but don't look too bad that they won't dig any deeper. And you had to do that when you were a kid too. You were kind of manipulating your way through those appointments.

Laura 29:44
Yeah, yeah. Because I just I hadn't grasped what it meant. Like I view high blood sugars were bad. I knew I was supposed to give insulin before I ate. But I didn't and I knew you know, the The end of had scared me to, you know, compliance by telling me stories about, I don't know, 28 years old year olds who are blind because they never took care of themselves. We all know the stories. But I just hadn't. It just hadn't clicked, you know.

Scott Benner 30:19
So with your parents sitting out in the car, you're at that age being told by a doctor, you have to do this right? Or you're going to go blind, like the person in this example. Yeah, that that could not have. Were you introverted before diabetes?

Laura 30:39
I was. Yeah. Okay.

Scott Benner 30:40
I just wanted to make sure they didn't break you. Doctor, Doctor just wasn't like, I'm gonna really screw this kid up, watch this.

Laura 30:49
became really close, but they didn't.

Scott Benner 30:51
Well. So that's interesting, because your moniker on Instagram is carb counting mess. Do you feel like a mess?

I think you should care about the quality of your blood glucose meter. Right? That sounds like common sense. But nobody really thinks about it that hard. Mostly, we just get the meter that a doctor gives us and we go about our business. We never even wonder, are there others? Are they better? Should I look? Well, there are and you should. And I would start looking at contour next one.com forward slash juicebox. And specifically, I would train my eye on the Contour Next One blood glucose meter. It is easy to use, easy to handle easy to see has a bright light, Second Chance test strips. And I love it. Just I have my hand up in the air I'm swearing to something it is my favorite blood glucose meter that I've ever used. Contour next one.com forward slash juicebox. Here's some things about it, you might not know you may be eligible for a free meter. The meter may cost less in cash than you're paying for your current meter through your insurance. All of these things are possibilities that you can learn more about at Contour Next One comm forward slash juicebox. But let me just finish with this. Really focus on your needs. Bright nighttime light, easy to read screen. Second Chance test strips. That means if you should touch the blood drop with you with the strip. And it's not enough, you can go back and get more without ruining the integrity of the test. We're wasting the strip. These are the things that will impact your days and nights. And it's super easy to carry your pocket your bag wherever you put your type one gear. Now we're going to move on to a type one diabetes risk screener called trial net. And it's completely free. For those who are eligible who are who's eligible, you qualify if you are between the ages of two and a half and 45 and have a parent, brother, sister or child with type one, where you're between the ages of two and a half and 20 and have an aunt uncle, cousin, grandparent niece nephew, or half brother or sister with type one. Or if you've tested positive for auto antibodies outside of trial net. Okay, now you know what trial net does and you know who's eligible, the rest is easy. Go to trial net.org forward slash juice box, answer a couple of quick questions to make sure you fall into those categories. Then you can choose how you're going to test where you get an in home test kit, a lab test kit, or go to a trial on that site. It's completely up to you. After you get your kit and send back your sample in four to six weeks. You'll know do you have early stages of type one diabetes? If you do try on that we'll schedule a follow up visit to see if you're eligible for a prevention study. That's it, trial net.org forward slash juicebox when they ask you how you found out about trial net, say the Juicebox Podcast if you can't remember all of that there are links in the show notes of your podcast player links at Juicebox Podcast comm or you can just type in trial net.org forward slash juicebox. And since it was a couple of minutes ago, let me remind you of this. Get yourself a Contour Next One blood glucose meter at contour next one.com forward slash juicebox now let's get back to our

Laura 34:34
that's a good question. I do still feel like I feel like a mess. But definitely less than the time at the time when I started my Instagram account. So I have I have turned around my diabetes management completely and honestly it's It's all thanks to your podcast. I couldn't have done it without you But you know, I'm nobody's perfect. I still have my days where I mess up or I feel lazy. I don't count carbs correctly. I don't actually count them. I just wing it.

Scott Benner 35:15
Yeah, counting carbs. That's, that's lame. That's, that's for that's for beginners. If you're still counting carbs, just know, you won't have to forever, eventually you'll be able to just be like, boom, that's 53. Let's do this. And just roll up on it and be done. Oh, yeah, that's great. Okay, listen to the podcast, right? Because then that stuff kind of becomes more and more obvious how to do things like that. I have to tell you that, that a lot of cheese. I want to say something larger. But I don't want people to take Oh, I give up. I don't care if anybody thinks things the wrong way. A lot of people say what you just said to me, and it doesn't lose its impact on me. No matter how often I hear it that you know, something about the podcast was, like valuable for them. But somehow because of your accent, it meant more to me. Oh, I had a woman from Canada tell me the same thing yesterday, but she had kind of like a rough and tumble Canadian accent it didn't hit me as close to my heart as yours did. Which is ridiculous.

Laura 36:22
It's okay. Yeah. Your Podcast means a lot to me. So, no,

Scott Benner 36:27
I'm glad I very much am. I'm very happy to know that says I appreciate you telling me. What made you start on Instagram? Like you found me after you started your Instagram account? Is that right?

Laura 36:39
Yes. Okay. i Yeah. Because I started my Instagram account in. Hmm. And actually remember,

Scott Benner 36:48
doesn't matter. My point is, is when you jump on, what are you doing it for? Are you like, maybe I'll find somebody to commiserate with maybe I'll find somebody who knows about this better than I do. Like, what is it you're looking for when you make it public? Because you? I mean, I guess this shouldn't be a surprise to me. Because I know a lot of introverted people who, you know, personally, aren't looking for a ton of interaction with people can be very expressive online, and it doesn't seem to drain them the same way. Am I right about that? Okay, so maybe is that just part of it too? Are you looking to talk to people, but the idea of doing it in person just seemed not like a good idea?

Laura 37:28
Um, yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think I started it because, like, for the longest time, I really think I really thought I was the only one like, I know everyone, everyone says that. But, you know, I don't get why. Because I knew there were camps for children with type one. I never never wanted to attend one of those camps. And I was like, oh, no, I like if I I just wanted to ignore diabetes, honestly. For the longest time, and then my, when, like, towards, like the end of my teenage years, I was struggling really, really bad. And my boyfriend actually, he found the beyond type one app. And he showed me the app. And I was like, Oh my God, there's other people. There's other type ones. And so I joined the app. And I, I somehow discovered some type one blogs. And so I started reading the blogs and like, Oh, my God, they have the exact same experiences I do. I was just, I was mind blown. And then, somehow, probably someone on the beyond type one app mentioned, like the community on Instagram. And I already had a private Instagram account. So I started following some people, and then was like, Screw it, I need to do my own account. So I can interact with people because I didn't want to, like get one wanted to keep my private accounts separate from my diabetes account. And so I was just looking for relatable content. I was looking for people who could you know, who understood me and the experiences I had had. So that was my initial thought when I joined the Instagram, diabetes insert, sorry, diabetes online community. But then I discovered, you know, I saw other people's graphs and how other people were handling their pipeline. And actually, I remember seeing Like someone who someone's grass who was, you know, like in the mid to hundreds and like 300 Maybe like 150. You know, like, other people have these kinds of kinds of blood sugars. I'm fine. I was, you know, I was looking for some sort of some sort of guide. Yeah. And, and so I was like, that's fine, I'm doing fine. But then I started seeing people with 100 blood sugar, and like straight CGM like lines. And I was intrigued. And I was like, No, it's that's possible. Why Why am I not doing that? Why are my blood sugar is so much higher. And so I started working really hard, trying to improve my control. And it was still on pence at that time. And it just wasn't working for me. I feel like my, my Basal wasn't tried. I tried splitting doses. But that wasn't working. So I ended up going on the Omnipod. And, yeah, so I was I kept improving my agency. I had actually, I had a very acute hypo fear at that point. And because of that, my agency Shut up to 9.3 from like the high sixes. And so I got from 9.3 to 7.2. And at that point, I discovered your podcast. And, you know, over the past two years, maybe I've been able to go from a 7.2 to a 5.5.

Scott Benner 41:58
Wow, congratulations. That's wonderful. Thank you. Yeah. And you made a point a moment ago, very eloquently, that I've maintained for a very long time. And just simply put, there was a time where if you shared a good graph online, people would come at you and tell the they would tell you, you're making them feel badly. And I just always thought, that doesn't make sense to me. Because if I, if someone shares a graph, like you described 201 5300, all over the place, then someone else sees that and thinks, oh, well, this is normal. So I'm okay. But if you put out a graph that's more stable at a lower number, then people should be able to look at that and think, Well, that's possible, like that person's doing it, like, why would it be different for me, and without any excuses in the middle? And you're too young to remember this, but there used to be that idea of like, well, it's diabetes. So if you're not having success, and someone else is, it's because you have a different kind of diabetes, and their diabetes is easier, which is not the case. You know, you know, in a huge majority of people that are outliers who have other health issues that make make it possible that that could be the truth. But for the most part for most people, if you use enough insulin at the right places, you have better outcomes. And so I have just, I mean, I was ahead of that curve. It was it was my my thought that we're going to project success. So that people can believe success as possible. And that it that actually reached you all the way in Switzerland. And, and helped you is it's, it's wonderful and, and I want to thank you in return, because without knowing it, you and many other people, you know, when you're just living your normal day, and it's nothing special, I'm not working, I'm just out doing something and the day is getting long, or it's getting boring, or I'm not doing the things I need to get done. And I'm starting to feel the weight of being alive. I can you know, imagine you somewhere a person I've never met, never spoken to whose health is in a much better situation, through something that I've made, and it helps me feel better. Do you know what I mean? So it's, um, it's nice to hear your story. Because that means I'm not just making that up in my head to make myself like happier. I'm not just walking around going you help people. It's okay, if we are stuck in traffic. You know what I mean? Like there's there's this thing, and it's cool because the podcast is perpetual. And because it's worldwide, it means that I've done something that's helping somebody even when I'm sleeping. Like it feels it feels very, it feels good. i There's no other word that needs to be attached to lovely feeling. And I appreciate you telling me that and I appreciate you sharing with other people. That seeing success can breed your own success. It doesn't have to be something that you look at and go Why are you making me feel badly because I'm not good at this. You'd like to be cuz no one's failing at it because they're not good at it. Like Laura's explained what happened to her, she came up in a culture where they were like, you're two seconds old, take care of yourself. And then you know, and then and then she gets diabetes, they're like, Yeah, keep taking care of yourself. And the doctors, like, don't go blind. And she's, you know, in her teens, you know, which is a crazy time to be telling somebody, you're in charge of diabetes. And by the way, it's gonna kill you if you mess it up. And then you still came out the other side of this. That's just wonderful. It's a, it's a great simple story. And you're so young, that you really have an opportunity to live your whole life this way. It's heartwarming.

Laura 45:41
Yeah, I completely agree. I like being being in the diabetes online community can be so empowering. And also, it's just a great place to be. But there are a couple of things that I don't really like. And the one with the A onesie is one of them. Lots of people don't post their a onesies. They're like, Oh, it's just such a personal thing. I, I don't want anyone to feel bad. I just don't get it honestly. Like, I think it's important to post normal agencies, normal blood sugars, because you get what you what you expect. So, um, you know, sometimes I'm, I, whenever I see, you know, other people posting their graphs and and, you know, you follow people, and you kind of get to know, how do they handle diabetes? And like, what kind of blood sugars they have? Of course, social media is never the full picture. But yeah, you kind of get a grasp of it. Yeah. There's I just, I'm sorry. Sorry, go

Scott Benner 47:02
ahead. No, I cut you off, I apologize. I was just gonna say, look, there are some people who don't share their a onesies, because they have their reasons, who cares what the reasons are, but there are other people who are trying to be, quote, unquote, diabetes influencers, and they're trying to make money off of it. And if they showed you their a one, C, you'd think well, why am I following this person? You know, and so they'll say, oh, I don't want to, you know, make people feel bad. But I'm, listen, I know a couple of people's stories privately that they would know that I know, and they're out there taking money off of people to teach them simple things like Pre-Bolus thing, and they don't know what they're doing. either. They're getting their information from other places. So and that's not the diabetes community. That's the world. Real, you know, like, that's, you know, what you're really describing, you know, what I talked about earlier, like somebody said, don't make me feel badly. That's just a weird thing in society right now. Like, apparently people can't be successful. Because if you're not successful, it makes you feel bad. Like I don't I don't know when we got to that point in the world. But you know, like that, that is everywhere. It's not just, you know, nobody disagrees and has a conversation. They're just like, You're wrong. And that's it. And then we just burn everything down seems to be what happens online. But that's not how the real world works. And so I think part of the reason why the podcast is still it works that way, is because it drags people into a form of digital media that they had no idea existed and had no interest in, like, Do you have any idea how many people listen to this podcast, but not other podcasts? You know what I mean? Or how many people listen to this, who would never have an Instagram account or never think to go on Facebook and don't care about the world and what other people think of each other. They just want to be healthy, they don't care how the hell they figure it out. You those that's the common sense that I represent. You know what I mean?

Laura 49:01
Yeah. And I also think it's it's important to change the narrative around type one diabetes, because I feel like it's it's just common knowledge that oh, you know, managing type one is so hard and oh, it's normal if your blood sugar fluctuates, and yesterday to a degree it is normal like healthy people's blood sugar's do fluctuate a little bit. But it's it's just so sad to me that type one diabetics feel like it's it's totally okay to have like 250 300 blood sugars when in fact it's not and and no one has ever told them and doesn't expect that from them and and it's just it's a sad because everyone deserves better Everyone deserves deserves to be in charge of their diabetes. And that's what I learned from your podcast, which is so, so useful and just empowering. I used to be, you know, in the passenger seat, I used to react to my blood sugar. And now I can act to get in front of my blood sugar and, you know, and decide where the car is going. I'm in the driver's seat now. And that's, I yeah, it's just, I, I don't really like in German, we say someone suffers from diabetes. And I hate the term because I used to suffer. I suffered for a decade. But ever since turning around my management, I honestly feel empowered by diabetes. So much so that I, sometimes I bring it up in job interviews, because so I loop with Omnipod and Dexcom. And, and I was asked once in a job interview, I was like, tell me a personal success story of yours. And I was like, Sure, okay. So, you know, I've got type one diabetes, and you know, I've got the insulin pump, blah, blah, blah. And I told him about loop and how I had to build the app on my iPhone. And it's just, you know, I, I reframe it as a as a personal success, because honestly, it is. And I just wish everyone could have this feeling of empowerment and being able to live well and be happy with type one

Scott Benner 51:44
you are, you're not reframing it, you're just explaining it properly. It is a it is a it's a major accomplishment. It really is. Yeah, no, you're very welcome. I listen, as you're talking. I, for one of the very first times, I'm 500 episodes into this, I thought to myself, I hope my daughter hears this episode one day. That's the first time I thought that while someone was talking, I really did like this. Your your success makes me feel proud of myself, and proud of you at the same time. And I don't normally feel like that. Normally, someone says, Hey, the podcast helped me and I feel like a little, I get a little giggly inside. I'm happy that it's good for you. And like I have that kind of thing. But I've never while you were talking, I thought there's a 25 year old person in Switzerland whose life is better. And I had something to do with it. And I didn't I don't usually think of it that way. And I suddenly oddly want my daughter to know that I did that for you. I don't know why all of a sudden, it just made me feel that way. So I hope she hears Arden if you're listening, and I'm dead, you should be at my grave more visiting me.

Seriously, think about me more often than you are and stop having sex with boys there. That's a message for the future Lord.

Wow, this is really terrific. You're making me so happy because? Because this is it's possible for anyone. And and the sooner people learn about this, the better. And I just I hear from too many people in their 40s and 50s and 60s, who say I can't believe I found this podcast so late in my life. That's a sadness. I don't want people to have to have is there. Was there anything that made the show assessable to you like, like, why did it strike you? Because I mean, look, as we're talking, I'm twice your age from another country. I have a completely different sensibility about most things, and you would imagine you do. And you and I Jive really well together. Why is that? Do you know?

Laura 53:57
Um, I don't know. I honestly your podcast is just so what it's funny, first of all, and that's important. And you're just such a good resource and just your your approach to diabetes is very, like I distinctly remember when you said like in one of your first episodes, you're like, explaining maybe it was even bold with insulin. I don't remember. But the one where you said just Bolus for a juice box. If it'll go low, you you'll just have the juice box if it doesn't, you know, you need the insulin. And I I just I remember I even remember where I was standing. When I heard that phrase because it just I don't know it just it just blew my mind and was like, of course how did no one ever think of this? And I just kept having moments like this when I was listening to your podcast, and it just, it was just, like such a huge learning curve. And it's not it's not boring, it's not very sciency. It's not, you know, super medical. It's just, it's just an easy conversation with amazing management ideas. And that's like, That combination is just, it's just so powerful. And it's not easy. Like, I think you're doing an amazing job. And I, honestly, you're, you're putting so much work in it. And I, I wish everyone could listen to the podcast. And I even try, you know, convincing some people here in Switzerland to listen to the podcast. But unfortunately, not everyone speaks English. That well. And, you know, the terms are quite technical. And, and you speak really fast. So it's not that easy for, for people here in Switzerland. But yeah, it's, I think, every seriously everyone should just listen to a podcast. And I don't know if you if you remember. Okay, a couple of years ago, I actually told my endo about your podcast, and she told other patients and those patients then came back with better results. And I, I like, like I wrote to on Instagram, and like you even said something like, on a show? I don't remember what I remember. But, um, yes, so I really hope to spread the word

Scott Benner 56:55
you tried to make me cry here at the end, Lauren is out today. It's gonna work, keep going. Just so you know, a little misty over her. I don't know what to say other than something sarcastic. So let me just say, I completely agree with you. I'm amazing. How's that? I don't know, I don't know what to say about that. I, I'm, I'm happy that it that it works. That's it, I'm very happy that it works. There's some weird mix me, we could sit here and pick it apart. But there's some weird mix of who I am and how I talk and what I know, and how I approach diabetes and how I approach talking to people. And for whatever reason, like, let's just be happy it works and keep going. You know, like, I don't need to understand that, that that deeply. I know that, I enjoy it. And I know that I'm excited to do it. And I and you're not wrong, it is a lot of work. And yet I don't feel like I'm working on it. I'm very excited to do it. Like I booked the recording, like on a day that I don't normally record because I got somebody and I was so excited to get them on the show. I just was like, Look, if your schedule doesn't fit mine, like I don't care, you just tell me when to do it. And they don't mess up my day that day a little bit. And it'll cause a little problem for my family. But I know it's gonna build the tapestry of this podcast more. And I know it's gonna it's gonna help people, and then has a chance of helping people in a big way. So to me, that doesn't seem like an imposition at all, just seems like obvious. I think, good.

Laura 58:28
Sorry. As a listener, like we can, we can really feel your passion. And I think that makes a difference. Like, you're really passionate about this topic. You You know, you speak from your own experiences, of course. And, and we can feel that and I honestly, it it's very motivating. Because there was a time where when I, I just had, I was so busy, and I didn't have the time to listen to your podcast. And actually, my agency increased a little bit because I wasn't like it wasn't this regular check in with with you with the podcast, like a weekly reminder to you know, people with insulin to do well to stop the arrows. And, and when I started again, it was I just I remember thinking, Oh, wait, that's why I was listening to this podcast because it's so amazing. And it's just

Scott Benner 59:35
like a mental exercise. When you have Yeah, it's mental exercise. It really is. It keeps you engaged. And I mean, listen, I could I could put on a different hat and tell you why I think the podcast works but it keeps you engaged and it it keeps you honest, it keeps it keeps you you know he talks about always being you know to take if you're gonna you know, do a weight loss thing, do it with a friend like that kind of stuff. So you have somebody to You know, can kind of check you a little bit, it's, it's the same idea is when people post their before picture online and then say I'm gonna start running now and you're accountable all of a sudden, to something. And this is kind of great because you don't have to be publicly accountable. You can just be accountable to a voice that doesn't talk back to you and doesn't know if you're not doing the things you wish you were doing. So it's kind of the best of both worlds in that case. Yeah, no, 100% and I treat it like that. I don't treat it like a hobby. Or I don't set it up to make money. It you know, it does it. It has ads, obviously. But you know, you know what I mean? Like, you see things on YouTube that, you know, like the person making the video doesn't care anything about this, they just know that this, this word gets clicks. And so they do a thing about this, like, I don't do that I have people on that I know will bring down the listenership that day. I think children are important to talk to. And there are a lot of adults who won't listen to the kids on. But I still do it with with great glee. I never think oh, here I go. I'm giving away downloads this week. I just think this is important. And and I genuinely believe what I've said to a lot of people, I think if you start at number one, and listen through, I think you're a once he goes into the sixes easily probably into the high fives. That's it. And yours is what right now.

Laura 1:01:23
So my last one was

Scott Benner 1:01:25
five, do you see those 300 400 blood sugars anymore? Never. Of course not. And you said something earlier about even somebody without diabetes, blood sugar goes up, and they have a spike to your 100%. Right, I've worn a CGM, and I've seen it myself, I was able to get my blood sugar to the 130s and the 140s. I think one time I had to eat a lot of pizza. But I got up into like the 160s for a couple of hours. But the difference is that if your blood sugar gets into the 160s, and you don't have diabetes, your body is going to effortlessly at some point bring your blood sugar back down to where it belongs without getting low. If you have type one diabetes 140 is not a big deal. But if 140 turns to the 160 turns the 180 turns into 225 You have such a crazy imbalance of insulin going on that either your blood sugar is going to stay high forever like that without intervention, or you're going to intervene in a way that's going to cause a bad low later, that's going to throw you into a rollercoaster. And the reason that I believe that intervention will cause a low is because if you knew what you were doing, your blood sugar wouldn't be 250 to begin with. So the same brain that got you to 250 is now trying to fix 250. And so you're just going to keep making problems because you just don't know what you're doing, which is fine. But there's a way to understand what you're doing. And not for nothing, Laura, but those things are available at diabetes pro tip comm or they begin at episode 210 at the podcast, right? Right, right. And Jenny's amazing. And you'll find Jenny in the pro tips. That she's amazing. Even though she has that weird accent. You can say she's lovely. She is lovely. But I mean she She talks like she's somewhere between Canada and, and Wisconsin. And she's so sweet. I'm just teasing because you have a weird accent. So I thought if I could get you to make fun of her accent and your accent, it would be hilarious. But then you didn't. You didn't take the bait. You just called her lovely. Nevermind, let it go or we'll move on.

Laura 1:03:22
Yeah, no, I completely agree with you with you know, diabetes roller coaster. And on that point, I, I would like to really encourage everyone listening. Like don't underestimate the power of the Dexcom alarms. i So, you know, I know you're a big proponent of pushing down the alarms as far as they go. And, you know, you're right. Like it seriously does matter. And it does make a difference. And for the longest time I had my alarm at maybe like 150 my high alarm and my emergency stayed in the low sixes high fives and when I changed it to 120 it actually came down like I'm rarely over 180 Because whenever it whenever it goes off I will have I mean of course loop is looping on it. But even if the if loop doesn't give enough insulin I'm I'm on it because I know it's happening and it's just it doesn't honestly bother me. It's it's like I see the alarm as something positive because I get to have the time to react before it's too high.

Scott Benner 1:04:49
That's something someone said in the past that I thought was amazing. She said I used to see the alarms as me messing up. But now I see the alarms as an opportunity to do the right thing that stopped something from going wrong. The way I think of it, the sooner you know, the sooner you can react, the sooner you react, the less insulin you need to react with, which will stop the spike, and significantly decrease the chance that you're going to get low later. That's it. A little bit of effort now stops a big problem later, or you ignore everything, until it's a huge problem, and then spent hours and hours and hours trapped in that problem. It's an obvious decision. Just you know, just and it's so simple. It really listen, if it wasn't easy. I couldn't explain it or good. I mean, really, I'm still reminded myself, she doesn't live in Sweden. She doesn't live in Sweden, and we're an hour into this. I'm no a brain surgeon. You don't I mean, like, it's, it's just it's simple, obvious stuff. And I think, I think the podcast does a good job of explaining how easy it can be and why you might think it's so difficult. You know, and, and all kinds of stuff. I'm so thrilled that you wanted to do this. I really appreciate it. Did we not talk about anything that you wanted to talk about?

Laura 1:06:04
Um, maybe just one less thing. I like I mentioned my hypo fear. And it was, yeah, maybe if we could talk about that a little bit. Because it was, it was really, like I struggled a lot. And it was really hard for me to get out of that fear. And I to be honest, I still am still a little bit afraid of insulin and being bold with insulin is can sometimes be a bit hard for me difficult because my thoughts keep going to open What if you go low? What if the insulin kicks in before your food? But yeah, I just

Scott Benner 1:06:57
how'd you get over it? I mean, how did you get as far over it as you have so far? Because it's a very obviously real thing. And it's one of the things I feel weird talking about not having diabetes, because I can't I don't believe that I can completely imagine what it feels like to willfully take something shoot it into yourself and go hmm, if I did this wrong, it's probably going to kill me. Here we go. Like that's a that's got to be a pretty big leap to make. I do. I do practice what I preach as best as I can. I can tell you that last night, Arden Arden's friends are starting to get their driver's license. Arden's a couple months younger than some of her friends. So she's going to be the last one. And last night, her and a friend, Bella, they went out, and then they ended up at dinner, where Arden texted me and said, Hey, we're getting like chips as an appetizer with cheese. And then I'm gonna have a waffle on I was like, okay, so she was a little on the lower side going into the meal so that when we put the carbs in, she didn't get all the insulin she should have gotten. And I was cutting the lawn, and she was at a restaurant. And so between the two of us, neither of us really noticed that she didn't get the insulin. And then it struck me about 15 or 20 minutes later, I was like, Oh, I wonder, you know, I'll check. So I texted with her and I said, Oh, no, we got to get that insulin in now. And so we put a lot of insulin in she was in a restaurant eating a waffle that I imagine had real, like syrup on it not like sugar free, I think where she was doesn't have sugar free. So I tried to, I tried to get all that in my math. And I was like, here use this much. I think this will work. And then she ate dinner, and everything was great. But as she got to the car to leave her blood sugar was suddenly like dropping, you know, which, I think if we were together, there weren't so many circumstances, we probably could have avoided pretty easily. And but she was in a car driving at that point, you know, with a brand new driver with a girl who basically had driven like three times before that by yourself. And so I didn't want to be like, hey, race home as fast as you can, because I thought that'll just get them killed a different way. You know, so I said, Hey, you got a juice with you? And she said, I do. I said, Why don't you go ahead and drink it. So she drank the juice. We stopped the arrows, she leveled out around 78. And she was okay. But without the intervention of the juice. I think she gets the 50 That's my guess. Right. But still, I can tell you that in the face of potato chips dipped in cheese and waffle dipped in sugar. I would rather have what happened than what would have happened if we weren't as aggressive. So okay, so we missed a little bit, right because we got out of balance a little bit. And so we were way more aggressive because we messed up the timing, if that makes sense to people listening. But still, I'd rather stop a low or falling blood sugar, then fight with the high one. I think that's a great decision in the moment. I think that's a great decision for long term health. But at the same time, I did it with my daughter remotely while she was in a car with a new driver like I'm not foolish Laura like I we do What'd I say on the podcast? You know what I mean? So, but again, I'm not 25 A doctor didn't tell me I was gonna kill myself. My parents were never helping me. And I'm working on this by myself. So that fear was with you. The entire time you had diabetes, when did you start to try to conquer it?

Laura 1:10:21
So actually, I, I wasn't like, I didn't have a fear of hypose until my like my late teens. And I like I had one experience, which kind of triggered it. So I I wanted to eat breakfast, and I had like yogurt and cereal. And it was like a huge Bolus. And I was Pre-Bolus Singh at the, at the time. And I was already on the lower side, like maybe 80 ish. And I play Bolus I forgot to eat. So I waited a bit too long. And then as I started eating, I felt sick to my stomach. So I, I had also insulin on board and I just couldn't eat. And I was like, Oh, crap, what am I what am I gonna do? And so I, I felt like I couldn't hold down anything. So I started eating, like bread, and I think glucose steps, shoving them into my mouth. And I told my mom, like, I have all this insulin on board, I am not sure if if this is going to go well, like, prepared to glucose, just in case. And I was there was the first moment I actually felt afraid, like, some sort of existential fear. Yeah, so we got into the car and drove to the hospital. And I kept eating glucose tabs until we got to the hospital. And we just sat in front of the hospital in the car, and waited for my blood sugar to come up. So that was the first experience. I didn't end up in the hospital. I hadn't, I didn't have to use glucagon. But like the fears struck, very deep. And then, like a couple of weeks later, I was at university. And I was in this huge, huge class with like, 600 people and I was sitting like, on one side of the room, and I wanted to eat a yogurt, and I bought last and ate yogurt. And then I watched my blood sugar, my Dexcom and it went up to like 130 and then it stayed there. And I just panicked. I thought oh my god, the insulin is gonna kick in and I'm just gonna tank and I will have a seizure in this room full of 600 people. Oh my god, I can't do this. So I I left the room. A good friend of mine came with me. And like we're asked where I study, the university is literally right across the street from my endos office. So I just walked to my endless office, drinking juice on the way. I don't even know why I went to the office because honestly, what

Scott Benner 1:13:41
they would have just told you you were going to go blind probably. Yeah.

Laura 1:13:45
Well, that was a different end. But yeah, I just I was seeking some sort of security. I was like, maybe it like if I have seizures take I'm sure they can help

Scott Benner 1:13:59
these people know what to do. Yeah, right. I just stare but did you fix it on your own? Or was it ever a problem? Or was that just anxiety about being in a room with all those people?

Laura 1:14:11
Honestly, if I had just, if I had just stayed there, my blood sugar would have been perfect. But I was just panicking. And so I completely over treated my It wasn't even a low I just over treated periods. And I

Scott Benner 1:14:28
sorry, you didn't need that juice at all.

Laura 1:14:30
No, no, not at all. Like I ended up at a no 350 And when I got to my Endo, I was like, I'm just I'm just so afraid of like of the incident i i thought i was gonna pass out and he was really rude. She just didn't take me seriously. I was like, Oh, you'll be fine, just whatever. And and I was having this issue Potential fear and, and he would just, he just didn't get it. He didn't give me the comfort and he didn't make sure I felt safe. And that just stuck with me. And I was I wasn't able to shake this fear. So I started, I literally couldn't get much higher. Yeah, yeah, I was I was giving my Basal insulin, and but I couldn't Bolus for anything. So I started eating very, very low carb. And basically not following so. So that's when my agency Shut up to 9.3. Because I, my blood sugar was 250 the entire time. Sometimes I'd have 1015 Day stretches where I get my blood sugar wouldn't get into the one hundreds. Because I had so much fear around insulin.

Scott Benner 1:16:03
Can I tell you that part of my feeling around this comes from a very, very long time ago. So a really long time ago, the diabetes community lived in earnest on Twitter, it's not really there anymore, with the same kind of power. But there was this one girl, and I don't know her name, honestly, I'm not saying I don't know her name. Because I'm trying to keep it private. I don't know her name, I don't remember who she was. I remember her being in her mid to late 20s. And she would periodically reach out. And she was frozen. She couldn't give herself insulin at all. She had some sort of massive hysteria about it like it was it was beyond just fear it I don't know if I'm saying that correctly. But she was having some sort of a breakdown, it felt like to me from a distance. And I just remember thinking, she's got to pull this together, it's gonna kill her. And people would try to help her. And sometimes she'd say she was doing better. But it just looked like she was doing worse and worse. And then one day, she just disappeared. And I just always wondered, you know, I have no way of knowing what happened to her. I never really knew her, I don't think I ever even corresponded with her, I just was watching it happen. And I thought, look how real the fear is, like, everyone must feel some percentage of the she's obviously feeling all of it, you know, plus, she's getting for people's doses of fear. But I just thought I'm afraid to, you know, I have to not be afraid. And that's about the time that I started talking to people more and more writing about and trying to decide how to not be afraid. Because it just seems like step one to me. You know, you can't be afraid if you're afraid of the insulin, you can't use the insulin, if you can't use the insulin, you're not gonna have great outcomes, etc, etc, on and on. So the fear is real, it's understandable. And there's a way to mitigate it. So how did you end up mitigating it?

Laura 1:18:05
I don't actually know. It's it just happened over the years. I? Well, so my boyfriend was he was very supporting, and he, whenever I'd get anxious and just afraid, he'd say, oh, but it's okay. Just, let's just wait 10 minutes and see what your blood sugar does. And if it does drop, you can you can always drink something or eat something. And so I just, I just trusted the process, honestly. And,

Scott Benner 1:18:39
but yeah, a little support to there was somebody standing next to you like, like, alright, I'll stay we'll do it together. You weren't alone anymore.

Laura 1:18:46
Yeah, right. And also, I, I started carrying around glucagon. And so I had this kind of security blanket. Just in case something happened. I don't actually know if people would know how to use the glucagon, or even find it. But you know, it's just my I kept telling myself, you'll be fine.

Scott Benner 1:19:09
Here. Someone will take it. I have to be honest, I can post in my head but never typed out. Hey, why don't you explain how to use the Chivo Kibo pen to your friend while you're driving? Like, yesterday when I was talking to him, like I had the thought I'd like the juice is gonna work. But I knew after the juice hitter if I didn't see a change pretty quickly. She was in a car and she was out of options. She didn't have any more sugar with her. They weren't that far from home either. And so I thought like how will I like, like, what's the least? What's the least frightening way to say I think you might have to stick that hypo pen in your thigh in a second. You know what I mean? Like if this doesn't go our way, so I kind of thought it through the best I could. I never even typed it out. But I did I had a lot of comfort in it. And I have to admit, and I know they're a sponsor, so it sounds, but there's something about it just being in that premix pen that makes me feel more comfortable. Because I can't imagine saying to Arden, hey, now would be a good time to get the powder out and the liquid and get the liquid. Okay, just you know, while you're driving along in a car, it that all seems daunting. The other idea just seemed like, oh, wow, we really messed up like it's time to jam the pen. She's never done it, but it didn't seem scary to say, I guess.

Laura 1:20:31
Yeah, yeah. But that's how I feel about the vaccine. Yeah. Oxymoron.

Scott Benner 1:20:36
Is that the nasal one?

Laura 1:20:38
The nasal one. Yeah. Okay.

Scott Benner 1:20:39
Yeah. Just it seems easier. And that's great technology, making people's lives better again, because now you you don't have to wait until something goes wrong wrong. Because you're not getting involved in what feels like a super it's, it's physically you're launching something to the moon. But that'll, that'll, that'll glucagon. You know, like, I don't know if I can do this or not. It seems like a lot. So it's cool. But so you found it, you found some stability. And now you're right on it. Right? And and in all truth, when your settings are good. When you're not guessing at your Basal. And when you're not just throwing insulin wildly around, those kinds of fluctuations are far fewer, I would imagine.

Laura 1:21:22
Yeah, definitely. Yeah, I'm, like, I'm mostly well controlled. I do still struggle a bit with my blood sugar dropping because of activity. So for example, yesterday. We also we ate dinner, and I Bolus to cover my dinner. And then I just ran randomly decided to water all my plants. So I was walking around the apartment with with a heavy, whatever it's called, like the thing to water the plants. And my blood sugar went from, like, I don't know, 150 to 40. Just because I was watering the plants. And if I had stayed, you know, if I had just sat down and watch TV, I would have been completely fine. And so that's where I'm still struggling because I don't want to limit myself. I want to be able to be spontaneous, and randomly decide to do things without my blood sugar crashing like crazy. And

Scott Benner 1:22:41
what are you watering the plants with a fire hose? And how big is your apartment?

Laura 1:22:45
It's actually so small. But I've got lots of small plants all around. So I need to walk into every room.

Scott Benner 1:22:52
Do you get low every time you water the plants?

Laura 1:22:56
I'm mostly Yeah. Interesting. But it's not just watering the plants. It just, you know, it could be I don't know, ironing or, you know, like tidying up, whatever it takes to just, you know, just walking around the apartment and or moving or whenever I get ready to leave. There's just a huge ache I get so insulin sensitive whenever I start moving and walking. And that's a struggle because I like I need enough insulin to cover my leg by Basal when I'm sitting when I'm doing nothing. But then as soon as I start moving, I need so much less insulin and I just hate to eat or drink something because I feel like I'm putting on weight.

Scott Benner 1:23:49
Well, what about what about this? What about you said you're looping? What about making your Basal a little weaker and your meal ratio a little heavier? Do you think you could accomplish that? Like if you took a little bit out of your Basal but major meals more aggressive? Do you think that you could find a balance there? So when you were away from food you wouldn't have I probably wouldn't be by a lot like you're a tiny person right? Like your pictures not very big right? Okay, so what are your Basal is like, like point eight an hour or something like that?

Laura 1:24:20
Um, yeah, I have I've got some point eight 1.1

Scott Benner 1:24:29
Is anyone else impressed that from five Instagram pictures? I guess your Basal right.

Laura 1:24:36
I'm very impressed.

Scott Benner 1:24:37
I was too honestly because when I said I was going to be wrong about this. So you know, like maybe that's the case like maybe you could steal a little bit of Basal and switch it around a little bit for those activity times is the one point something daytime or nighttime. Daytime daytime and the point is overnight. Yep. You could try lowering impressive. Thank you. You could try lowering the daytime a little bit and maybe be more aggressive with Could you take away some Basal and then first look at the insulin sensitivity during the day, or maybe meal ratios, I'm not sure where I would start. But there's got to be a way to do that because you should be able to water your plants. At first I thought, I thought you were like using a euphemism for something else. I was like she's trying to talk about sexy time without saying it. And so, because I just couldn't, couldn't imagine walking around watering your plants. But maybe that's it, maybe you're being kind of real aggressive with your Basal, and it's making up for a little bit of where your meals are lacking could be thinking yeah, yeah, that could be think about meanwhile, you don't listen to me. But this, this begs the question then. And you are young. So I start feeling weird when I say it, but what do you do for private time?

Laura 1:26:03
Hmm. So there's actually enough time between like, a meal and like private time so that I don't have any insulin on board, so it's fine. Alright,

Scott Benner 1:26:14
so I'm gonna ask a really weird private question. Is most of your private time in the evenings after your Basal rates lower?

Laura 1:26:23
Well, now I like now I can tell my parents to listen to do you think they'd be disappointed?

Scott Benner 1:26:31
Do you think Laura, they'd be more horrified to know that you do it when you can see each other? Oh, God. Alright, well, oh, and they're, they're very tight. They're probably Catholic, too, right? Yeah. Oh, I'm sorry. Your daughter doesn't have sex. Don't worry about it. I just forget it. Nevermind. Anyway, you understand what I'm saying? I just wanted you to be able to put those ideas into your life. Not. Not not, you don't have to tell me the details. There's anyway, I'm sorry. You guys. You guys should stop listening. Now. It's over. Goodbye. Bye. Bye. Sorry, I actually have to roll I have. So I'm having a really great time talking to you. But I do have something else I have to get to. I apologize. But I really can't thank you enough for doing this. And in all honesty, if I keep this podcast going for years, you were one of the people I would like to have back on one day.

Laura 1:27:27
Oh, I'd love that.

Scott Benner 1:27:34
I want to thank Laura very much for coming on the show and sharing her story. I'd also like to thank TrialNet and the Contour Next One blood glucose meter for sponsoring this episode. Head over to trial net.org forward slash juicebox to get your free type one diabetes risk screening. And if you're looking for a great blood glucose meter, look no farther than the Contour Next One. Find out all about it at contour next one.com forward slash juicebox. Don't forget to check out the private Facebook group for the podcast. It's called Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes. Find those diabetes pro tips at diabetes pro tip.com.

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#586 Body Fire

Carol is an adult lving with type 1 diabetes.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
You guys should hear how many different ways I tried to start this show. But in the end I just like Hello friends, and welcome to episode 586 of the Juicebox Podcast. See it's simple and easy

on today's episode of The Juicebox Podcast Carol is with us. Carol's from the Canada, the Canada, the Canadian. I just mix Canadian in Canada together somehow I was gonna say Carol's Canadian, or Carol's from Canada. Instead I said cow's Canavalia Oh, it's too late now I would have made that the title. Damn it. Anyway, while you're learning about Carol, remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice. Medical or otherwise, I've lost my rhythm. Please. Really? What are you gonna do? I mean, oh my god. Please consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. Or becoming bold with insulin. I guess I don't know it as much as I can just say it after I started. It's interesting. Please remember. Wow, that's weird. I'm thinking about it. Stop making. While you're listening, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. Or becoming bold with insulin. That's it. Thinking is my greatest enemy.

This show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries. G voc hypo Penn. Find out more at G voc glucagon.com. Forward slash juicebox. This episode of the podcast is also sponsored by touched by type one. Learn more about them on their Instagram or Facebook pages. And at touched by type one.org

Carol 2:04
Yeah, I wish I was where you were. Why is that? It's cold here.

Scott Benner 2:08
I hate the cold. I don't know why you're anywhere cold. It's a ridiculous idea. You should leave right oh,

Carol 2:13
we had snow three days ago. Like where are you? Ish. I'm in northern like North East New Brunswick. Pretty much. Within an hour. I can get the code back. I mean, I'm on like the side of Newfoundland, but I'm originally from Halifax Nova Scotia. Actually.

Scott Benner 2:30
Those are all places. I'm just kidding. They are

Carol 2:33
actually if you know, Sidney Crosby parlor Park Boys, they're all from my hometown. Coldharbour. Yes, you got surprisingly Yes. You guys

Scott Benner 2:43
Sidney Crosby and the Trailer Park Boys. Yeah. It's a nice mix.

Carol 2:48
And actually quite couple other people like classify. A lot of people know his music up here. We all camp together as kids at the same campground. And yeah, kid actually is a pretty small place anyway.

Scott Benner 3:00
Okay. I'm from Philadelphia. I think I'm supposed to hate Sidney Crosby. So

Carol 3:06
it's okay. Most Canadians don't like him either.

Scott Benner 3:08
Oh, really? Well, you know, it's funny, we're recording, I'm just gonna tell you that I standing in a tunnel with my son yesterday. And he's hitting and we're getting done. And then we started talking about different things. And talking about how once you make it to Major League Baseball, you're basically one of the best like 1000 baseball players on the planet. And, and how we watch them and then just openly mock them for sucking and you're like, wait, what? There's so much better than everybody else. And then I just thought, like, I can imagine you starting when you're four or five years old, and you make it you're 23 you're standing out in the field, gets quiet for a second before a pitch and just hear somebody yell at you suck just like my whole life, you know? And then that made me think of it

Carol 3:59
just comes crashing down at that one person. Well, when you said like, you know,

Scott Benner 4:03
nobody likes Sidney Crosby as like, he's a good hockey player. Like what else? He

Carol 4:08
is a good hockey player. But I guess what a lot of people don't like about him is he's not as rough and rugged. So when Don Cherry kind of out of them at the start and called them a hotdog player, it kind of stuck with him. Because you know, Don Cherry before his whole outing there was, you know, everybody loved on Cherry. So when he said something, you know, and he was young, and no one really took them seriously. And yeah, it's just

Scott Benner 4:33
Can I thank you. Before we get started, and I got to figure out your microphones a little poppy, but you said about already, which I really appreciated. And if you can do that a couple more times during the hour.

Carol 4:43
Oh, don't worry. You will hear that multiple times along with other weird Canadian words. I'm sure.

Scott Benner 4:48
Thank you. What kind of a mic are you using? Because you're a little puppy like You're like it's weird.

Carol 4:53
I'm using the one that came with my phone. Oh, it paid. I paid $700 for the phone. So you would Send the microphone would be happy to.

Scott Benner 5:03
Do you have hair touching the phone by any chance?

Carol 5:05
Not at all. Okay. All right.

Scott Benner 5:07
We're good then. So, we record that, you know, you're being recorded the whole time. So, you know,

Carol 5:14
awesome. I hope you have a deeper because sometimes Yeah, I might drop the bomb.

Scott Benner 5:19
Oh, I'll just cut the word out. I are back. Yeah, I gave up on the beeping about a year ago. It just really is like you have to because you basically you're doing double the work you're cutting. You're cutting some of the audio out, right? So you can't hear

Carol 5:35
it would be kind of fun to hear someone like me go on a rant and all you heard was Beep boop, boop, beep, beep and beep to

Scott Benner 5:43
a couple of times, that

Carol 5:45
would be kind of fun for a moment.

Scott Benner 5:47
Alright, so you, you introduce yourself and then we start talking anyway, you want to be known meaning by the way, you don't need to use your full name if you don't want to stuff like that.

Carol 5:56
My name is Carol, I'm from Halifax, Nova Scotia, in your guys's northern neighbor there Canada. And I now live in a little place called neglect New Brunswick. How I found the podcast and how pretty much my story would be is I work as a chiropractor and a roofer. That's my, one of my multiple trades. Plus, I'm self employed. And all of a sudden, one day I started not feeling good. And then I have multiple autoimmune diseases. So for like, eight years, everything always got blamed on that even blood work, they would say, you know, a little off because of this, or because of this medication. And, you know, finally, something didn't match. So I kind of crashed and ended up in the ER, and, you know, went through the whole battle of our free health care, Canadian fun up here. And luckily, I actually found this podcast very quickly. Because I'm the kind of person who goes on Facebook and, you know, puts out that post and joins 1500 groups and pretty much, you know, finds everything and your podcast actually came up that a lot of times, so I figured I'd jump on. And honestly, compared to what we get up here in Canada for information, it was something even my doctors and my nurses didn't even understand is if you're an adult up here and you get diagnosed with diabetes, they automatically assume type two. And I'm sure it's the same way in America. But in Canada, we have very limited resources period, let alone if you get diabetes. So down there, I noticed you guys, you know, you have camps and stuff that that would be I think we should have adult camps where we all get together with a case of beer and you know, just bitch about our diabetes.

Scott Benner 7:56
Oh, can I stop you for a second? I have to ask you a question. You're not You're not building something right now are you

Carol 8:01
know, that's actually a woodpecker outside?

Scott Benner 8:05
I'm not hearing that. Are you maybe are you maybe touching stuff while you're talking or moving around or anything? Because I'm hearing like a lot of scraping and like, like little No, no, you're

Carol 8:14
I think in my microphone might have moved it but I'll hold it. So it doesn't move there. That's weird.

Scott Benner 8:18
No, I really, maybe it's just that you're so far away and in the middle of a frozen tundra. That could be quite possible. Yeah. Well, and we won't harp on it, but I just want to make sure that you're not some people get like they move their hands and they rub things they don't realize they tap on me

Carol 8:35
like get fidgety. No, surprisingly, I'm actually not too fidgety since you complained that you couldn't hear my microphone. Like all like still and still like talk. But unfortunately, I am a hand talker. So I might switch a bit. So I apologize.

Scott Benner 8:50
Just a little bit of noise while you're talking. And I don't want people to miss what you're saying. But there

Carol 8:54
is like four woodpeckers just going crazy outside in the woods right now. So if you're getting that as a background noise, but

Scott Benner 9:01
Well, I wish you wouldn't have said for woodpeckers going crazy this early in the episode because god damn solid title for your episode. Anyway, okay, so you let me make sure I understand. So you go in. And, you know, you said you have a lot of other autoimmune issues that came prior. So what other ones do you have?

Carol 9:28
I have a condition called ankylosing spondylitis. I'm being diagnosed for lupus. I have fibromyalgia. rheumatory arthritis. I have psoriasis. I have a condition called beulas pemphigoid. And I learned I had hash nietos thyroid disease right before I got diagnosed actually a couple months beforehand. When I have anemia I know I'm missing something. You

Scott Benner 9:58
just list my autoimmune diseases you don't have Would that be easier?

Carol 10:01
Honestly, I think it would be but some of them I can't even pronounce myself. Some of them like, there's a couple in there. Oh, I'm Renault's syndrome, the one where your fingers turn white. That's a fun one. How old are you? I'm 41. Right now,

Scott Benner 10:18
how long have you had these things? In the past 10 years, they

Carol 10:22
all started coming up about 12 years. Right after I had my middle child, baby birthing. And I said I honestly, I tell her all the time, she sucked the life out and she's a teenager. Now.

Scott Benner 10:34
May I say? I don't believe you're supposed to tell them that.

Carol 10:38
I do though. Unfortunately, where it's okay, though. She understands because she believes in herself. Like, her father agrees. Like, you know, she, she's fun. I'm very proud of her. She's on Team Canada for cheerleading. So she has, you know, even though she's been a pain in my bum, she has done big things.

Scott Benner 10:57
Very nice. That's, that's nice. Okay, so prior to this, this first thing happening into your 20s Nothing going on. You just broke nothing.

Carol 11:06
I was actually at the time working as an automotive mechanic. And life was great. I to smoke actually had my first kid very young. And after my second kid, I had always complained about back pain. And they checked me for everything. And they told me that my sugar's were kind of elevated. But when I was pregnant, they weren't too concerned. And life went on, I was very active. So nothing really came up just a lot of nausea, but they always blamed being pregnant on that. So had my baby went back to work. And yeah, everything was fine. And then about two years later, then I started getting, but not feeling right. And they told me I had anemia. And at that time, it was anemia. And they just told me I had arthritis, what they do for Aimia nothing, they told me to eat some more iron a lot more red meat. Pretty much no i I've always eaten, right anyways, not big takeout person. We do like me, like, we do a lot of home gardening and stuff like that. So if we don't get ourselves, we always get from a market, like, we're pretty healthy either. So I never really thought of food or anything. And, you know, again, life went on. So five or six years goes by and the pains are getting worse. Now they're telling me I after MRIs and stuff, and you wait a while up here for this, by the way. So if you complain about a pain today, and you're not dying, you wait about 12 months to get an MRI

Scott Benner 12:49
is that the free health care that everybody here wants

Carol 12:52
for free health care that everybody wants up here. So I mean, some provinces are better than others. But unfortunately, on the east coast, ours is not. So if you complain today, they just give you painkillers. And they'll usually start as naproxen or something and they know tell you to, you know, limit your daily you know, everything and wait for your appointment. So when the year comes up, you'll get your MRI or CAT scan or whatever it is you're going in for even simple blood work. Like if you get blood work today, we'll say it's about two months sometimes to get into a doctor to get the results of that blood work. That so now you think about it. If you complain today about your problem, you wait a year for an MRI, that MRI now takes about, you know, two months sometimes for the doctor to get back unless it's you know, really, really, really bad. And then to get into their office now you're talking anywhere between six to eight weeks to get an appointment to get bloodwork now you're up to two years for something started bugging you two years ago.

Scott Benner 13:56
And a number of different things going on in that process. Exactly.

Carol 14:01
And then you get you'll get to a doctor and they'll be like, ooh, that doesn't sound and you'll wait all this time and then there'll be like, that doesn't sound like me. You should go see this doctor instead. Oh, and then you got to do to get so to get to a rheumatologist to get diagnosed with ankylosing spondylitis, which is it's a deformity that will happen in your spine. It's kind of if you ever see people who are as they get older, they're very hunched over and they're human, their shoulders are pronounced. And you know, they have a hard time walking very seized up. That's what it is actually the lead singer of Imagine Dragons has it looking but he does have it.

Scott Benner 14:42
It's an inflammatory arthritis affecting the spine and large joints. That sounds right. Yeah. More common among men usually begins in early adulthood. Typically,

Carol 14:54
I don't know why they say it's more common among men. Because women is women. Name of is called the working man's disease. So I've been doing trades since I was 18 years old. And when I say trades, like up here we call anything. I mean, like building or fixing anything, that's a trade. So I have multiple licenses in different kinds of trades over the years. So I started off as an automotive technician, I did exhaust fabrication, then I moved on to carpentry, cabinetry, roofing. And then now I kind of do art with carpentry. Plus, I run a small business based off of different art and stuff with which I made.

Scott Benner 15:39
But always working with your hands leaning forward, like exactly,

Carol 15:43
so on your feet, they never really with women, they don't really think of diagnosing as like women, it's very hard to get a diagnosis with it, they'll usually tell you at Fibro, or give me something, it's, it's a certain blood marker, I guess it's an HLA B 27. Marker, it's all on the same lines is diabetes with the whole HLA family. And, and autoimmune diseases come in pairs. So usually, if you get one, you'll get two. And if you get another one, another one's gonna come along. That's what I've learned over the time. But the problem up here is, is if you want to learn anything besides basic, you have to do it yourself. Okay. So example, when I got when I got sick with diabetes before I actually got diagnosed, last year, when COVID started. In the end of February, we all got really, really, really sick. But COVID wasn't here yet. So my spouse and our daughter, they didn't get as sick as I did. So I went into the hospital, and they told me I had an upper respiratory infection. And they gave me an antibiotic, and they told me to go home. So I went home with the antibiotic, but nothing really happened. But because of COVID, you don't want to go back in because, I mean, they make it seem like you shouldn't less you have COVID. So I sat and waited. And I guess, between the time the antibiotic ended, and when I actually went into DKA, I had a kidney infection, because my blood sugar was so high. But no one ever checked my blood sugar because I don't look. And this is what they told me is I don't look like a diabetic. Because for 40 at the time, I was just before my 41st birthday. I'm in shape. I work yeah, I mean, like I don't, and their eyes up here and adult who's diabetic, you're overweight, you're lazy. It's very stereotypical. And they automatically assume you're cute. So when I get really sick, no one really paid attention to they just kept telling me it was something else. So I called my doctor and said, I'm having a really hard time breathing, My chest hurts, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But because of COVID She couldn't see me in the office. So over the phone, she told me I had asthma. And then two days later, I drove myself to the hospital. And they told me my blood sugar was 20 that 28 was 28 point something. I don't know what it is. And your guys's American term. I'll tell you in a second. A one C was 18.3.

Scott Benner 18:30
Jesus, okay, hold on. I

Carol 18:32
didn't understand how I drove myself there, let alone waited in the waiting room for six hours. And was still coherent when I got to them.

Scott Benner 18:42
Yeah. What did you say your blood sugar was? 28 It was

Carol 18:45
28 point something and what they have your a one so yet 18.3. And I hadn't eaten in a day or so because I was so nauseous. Yeah. And

Scott Benner 18:57
it was like for people listening that don't use that scale. Her blood sugar was over 500. That's crazy. And she's like that a long time it for a once he was that high too.

Carol 19:10
Yeah, what he told me was is that because of my job, and because of the fact that I'm active, I was always burning the over amount of sugar off and keeping my body in a fight or flight mode. And then when COVID head, everyone lost their jobs. So even though I was eating good, I was still eating carbs,

Scott Benner 19:33
sitting still not moving around as much not working. Exactly. Because

Carol 19:36
we weren't allowed out of our houses. Like if you want to walk your dog, you had to stick in a certain block radius. It was and this was right in March. It was one person per family to go grocery shopping or anything like that. Like it was very you couldn't do anything. And at the time we live in the city and we had a very small yard. And when I say small yard like I mean it was literally our house. driveway and a pile of the sod for grass. So you couldn't do much. So going from working 12 hour days, five to six days a week. Plus coming home and being busy. That didn't happen anymore, so I wasn't. So I was just taking me tactically and just building up building up. So when we couldn't work in March, it was, you know, three or four months it was just building up. I guess that's why I was so high they told me right now it makes total sense. They describe it as I was really sweet is pretty much like,

Scott Benner 20:36
that's just those that's because of the sap the the what do you guys put on the pancakes? Mabel Sarah, that's it. That's what

Carol 20:45
you understand. Like, I put that on everything. Like I played on my rice like this is before I get diagnosed early. On bacon, I put it on rice. I put it on eggs, I put it on, I get my french fries in it, like literally like it. Everything like I love even in the wintertime if you know someone with a tap, you can pour it on the snow and you can make your own candy with it. So you roll it up on a soccer stick and it's like maple Taffy

Scott Benner 21:17
gonna move you people somewhere warmer, so you can find other things to do.

Carol 21:22
Yeah, but with the cold comes the fun. Like we have four wheelers up here like we ever land in the middle of play kind of like the back roads up here. So up here, I can jump on my four wheeler and I can go more places and I can in my car. Or if you have a snowmobile up here, you can literally make it anywhere like it. There's a good with the bat. But we also live in a fishing village. The ocean is right beside me. So I'm willing to almost freeze to death sometimes to be able to experience all that too. Is in the city. We didn't have that. So

Scott Benner 21:58
yeah. Well, that sounds nice. I mean, honestly, outdoors is nice. I'm teasing, but the cold is insane. And oh, you're in what? Florida? No, I'm in New Jersey.

Carol 22:09
Okay, yeah. And even still warmer than that. Oh, yeah,

Scott Benner 22:11
it's way warmer here. And I don't think warming off here. So that's, that's. So you've been on. Even on quite a journey for the last 10 or so years?

Carol 22:24
Oh, it's not even like the little bit. I told you. That's not even the start of it. So when I made it to emerge, I would like I said, I was they told me I was in DKA. But because of COVID. I was sent home within 12 hours with a prescription for Metformin. They had done a gad test, a C peptide, and something else. And they told me to go home and wait for results. So they sent me home with metformin, and insulin Lantis to Use as directed. But no one gave me any direction, because I hadn't seen an endo team. And then I had homologue again, uses directed. But again, no one get all they told me was 10 units at each of my meals. Hmm. But I don't always eat. I mean by weight. Food.

Scott Benner 23:18
I'm trying to imagine what you do. So you're holding prescriptions that say use this directed on them, which is what they all say. And then no one helps you with what that means when you're told to go home. Yeah, what do you do next? Because you're probably

Carol 23:30
well, I still was so they gave me I guess two bags of fluid and antibiotics for the kidney infection I had. And they sent me home like, Yeah, me too. And they told me if I have any more problems to come back it but I waited seven hours to get in there kind of thing. So

Scott Benner 23:50
how am I ready for this? Right? Wait a minute, had you been on antibiotic right before this as well?

Carol 23:55
Well, back in March, when I first got sick there with the upper respiratory infection,

Scott Benner 24:02
see it back to back antibiotics, this I'm sorry, I cut you off you sent they sent you home.

Carol 24:06
So they sent me home with it. And then it wasn't working like I was they gave me a play called a blood glucose meter. The one touch or whatever, they told me to go to the pharmacy and get it. And I was taken what they told me but my sugar wasn't coming down. And it just like I could get it the 13 but then it would go right up again. And it was crashing down to 1.8 I think I was going back up because no one had told me anything about Pre-Bolus carb counting, you know, write down your meals, figure out some stuff. It was just 1010 1010

Scott Benner 24:43
Well, that's the only issue count in my opinion. You can't you can't treat DKA with just the way people manage diabetes, like your you need to be hospitalized and that needs to be brought down kind of slowly,

Carol 24:58
I guess. Yeah. From what I've learned If I was a kid, I would have gotten that, like a little better. Hospital if I actually wrote the patient advocate in the Hospital Authority, and describe my experience and told them, you know, this is not right. And they guys

Scott Benner 25:21
is that they did, they apologized and said, you're free maple syrup.

Carol 25:25
God knows. So they apologized. And they explained that, you know, they understand that shouldn't have happened, but unfortunately it did. But because of COVID. Do there's sometimes things happen. But the kicker is, is at the time, we only had like four cases and their whole province.

Scott Benner 25:44
Here, they couldn't see they couldn't see DK because of COVID. That doesn't make

Carol 25:48
sense. What they told me it's right in the letter is because of COVID restrictions and the fact that they needed so many beds open in case the wave came that they were waiting for. They had to send me home and because I didn't present as someone because of where I have so many other conditions. I'm so used to pain and stuff that I hold it well because I always have a little bit so the body aches and the headaches and stuff. I wasn't in there crying and losing my mind because it was the first time I'd ever felt it. I can take it because I'm used to being in pain sometimes. So where I didn't present as someone in high distress, they felt that that was another reason to send me home.

Scott Benner 26:35
You have at the knees enough to stop like anybody like that. That's enough, whether it's type two or type one or you're complaining or you're not complaining.

Carol 26:46
Oh, it's not the firt like this is not the only if you if you think that's bad the rest of it's gonna blow your mind.

Scott Benner 26:51
Okay. G voc hypo pen has no visible needle, and it's the first premixed auto injector of glucagon for very low blood sugar in adults and kids with diabetes ages two and above. Not only is G voc hypo pen simple to administer, but it's simple to learn more about. All you have to do is go to G voc glucagon.com Ford slash juicebox. G voc shouldn't be used in patients with insulin Noma or pheochromocytoma. Visit GE Vogue glucagon.com/risk Have you checked out touched by type one.org? You haven't. Why? You trying to make me look bad? Is that what this is about? This personal between you and I? Because if it's not head over there, touched by type one.org Just pick around a little bit. Look at their programs, see what they do. Learn about their D box program. If you're newly diagnosed chicken I love it. I don't ask a lot. You know what I mean? Touch by tight bond.org Check it out. Follow me on instagram. Follow me on the Facebook machine. Alright, that's it. We're getting back to the show Quick, quick ads. You like it? Ah, Porsche do you say Scott, thank you for keeping the ads quick. My pleasure. Really? Of course, I'd be remiss if I didn't say have you gone to T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juice box yet? Hmm, have you t one D exchange.org. Forward slash juice box for US resident who has type one diabetes, or you're a US resident was the caregiver of someone with type one, you can take a quick, less than 10 minutes survey that will help people living with type one diabetes and support this podcast, T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juice bucks. And as the music winds down, I'll remind you to check out the private Facebook great grade private Facebook group, the did that private Facebook page for the Juicebox Podcast. It's called Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes, over 17,000 people just like you talking about type one right there in the privacy of that page. It's just another lovely benefit of listening to the Juicebox Podcast. There's links in the show notes links at juicebox podcast.com. Let's get back to Cairo.

Carol 29:26
So after I got through all of that, and I finally I had to go back because my sugars wouldn't come down properly because then that forum was making me super sick. I couldn't keep food down but I'm on all this insulin. So I'm going super low. And I go back to the hospital and they make me wait and emerge again for another six hours. But every time I go into a merge because of diabetes, all the symptoms of diabetes are the same as COVID. So every time I go I have to get tested I have to get isolated and They started once it's only diabetes, they just quickly do something and they sent me home.

Scott Benner 30:07
So they kill if you even if you come back in the same process, I

Carol 30:11
came back crying the second time I came back, because I didn't know how much to use, right. And they told me that it was going to be, they told me to check my sugars and my sugars at the time, I think we're one at 21. And they told me that it wasn't that bad. My vision was getting kind of spotty. And I was getting the tinglies in my hands and feet. And they told me again, because of, you know, there's no beds, there's no doctors available that they couldn't help me. All they could do is just, you know, watch me while I wait, kind of thing

Scott Benner 30:46
this a people, right, this wasn't for elk and moose and stuff. And you just happen to be close to it this for people.

Carol 30:51
Well, this is our city hospital resolutions. And yeah, so I got pissed off and I left. Yeah, I mean, like is I'm like, Okay, this is and I sat in the parking lot of the hospital. And that's what I started looking at stuff. I'm like, Okay, if they're not going to help me, I'll do it. Like, I kept telling myself in my head, I'm like, girl, you can build a car, you can build a house. Yeah, I mean, you can do all this stuff. You can figure this out. I still didn't know yet. If I was type one, or type two, because, right, you have to wait 10 days for the results of these gad tests to come through. And I put up my plea on type one and type two groups, Canadian groups. And I found you guys. So I was reading a bunch of different posts and a lot of people's stories kind of related. But just obviously I'm a different age. And instead of just waiting for the doctor, I just started applying stuff. I'm like, either way, whether I'm type one or type two. Like if I just do this, what they're talking about, what's his Pre-Bolus they're talking about? Me trying this, this and just, I just started slowly chiseling away at it. And I started, you know, first day, not so much. day two, day three, I could see a little bit and I was like, huh, and then all of a sudden, they call me back and they're like, you're type one. That was like, okay, cool. What now? And they're like, Well, an endo should be in contact with you soon. So to me, when someone tells you, you know, they're going to contact you soon. And you just got diagnosed with up here. It's a critical illness, like I can actually claim it as a disability like me, so I can get a disability tax credit and stuff. So I waited for this call from this, you know, endo team that was going to help me if a week goes by No One, two weeks goes by no one. Now my spouse is getting mad. So he calls and he's like, you know, my spouse is, you know, waiting for a call from you guys. Because he knew if I call, I'm going to lose my mind on them. So he was trying to, you know, be the calmer person, right. And they said that they didn't have my file yet. And it would probably be about up to 30 days because of restrictions. I could only have so many people in office that day. And, you know, some of we get back to me. Well, that was I get diagnosed June 3 and 2020. When I had my first appointment with an endo team. It was November 15. I think 13th or 15th. That's five

Scott Benner 33:21
and a half months later. Yes.

Carol 33:25
So yeah, wait. So when people say that listening to your podcast was more than they learned, they're not joking. Because by the time I made it into my Endo, I got myself a Dexcom. From listening to your show. Wow. Because you kept saying get a Dexcom. And I'm very fortunate that my spouse is a veteran, like for Canadian military. So we have a very good medical plan. So I got my general general, like family doctor to write me a prescription for Dexcom just to cover me insurance was right. And I ordered the Dexcom. I started the subscription 299 a month and we just let it build up on our credit card. So when I finally got into the Endo, they were surprised at the fact I had a CGM. Guess where my blood sugar was from listening to your show? times 7.6 or 7.5? I think it was Wow. From 18.3. No kidding. Good for you. And it was an honest to God. It was no help at all. From any one up here.

Scott Benner 34:34
That's amazing. Yeah, I'm like stunned. I did not expect to hear this from you today. And so it really has put me back on my heels a little bit. I had no idea that did something like this. I guess I hear people talk about it. But having it laid out like this is really something else.

Carol 34:53
Oh, and it gets even better.

Scott Benner 34:56
Can't be crazy. What you've just said but nothing inland. I said it can't be crazier than what you just said. Unless it's somehow better. Are you gonna ride a polar bear at any point in the story?

Carol 35:07
I wish I could see a real polar bear. But so after I finally get into them in November, and I had to do blood work, I think it was like a week before I went, so they had something to see when I went in. And that was something I requested. Like I told my family doctors, okay, and I lock in, she's really close. Like she's, um, she's not only our family doctor, but she's from the same village my spouse's from, so I can message her and be like, hey, and I can get in a little quick with her, but she's very limited to what she can do. So I was like, Hey, I have an appointment coming up with my Endo. Can you put me in for some blood work? And you know, put this stuff on it. And at the time, they had me on 50 milligrams of Synthroid. And I asked for my TSH to be check because I remember you had said anything, you know, around anything to it was Yeah, over to you need. And you also had made an episode about your wife, you weren't sure, and just threw her on some anyways. So how I got the centroid was my family doctor. I said, Hey, I have all these symptoms, my tongue swelling, my hair's falling out. Can you hook me up with some Synthroid? I know, it's like, I feel like I'm talking to a drug dealer sometimes. I'm like, you know, can you give me some of this? So I can, you know, it's not going to kill me as you go. Sure. And even with that, 50 my TSH was still really low. So when I hit the Endo, she was surprised at the fact that my a one C was low. I'm already on Synthroid and she's like, holy, did you go to medical school? And I not even joking, I looked her dead in the eye. I said, No, I learned it from a podcast.

Scott Benner 36:48
Got to be embarrassing for the doctor.

Carol 36:50
She literally swallowed and looked at me. She goes, Oh my God. Like, are you kidding? I'm like, not at all.

Scott Benner 36:56
Yeah. Hey, you know what she should know she ever hears this. I didn't even go to college.

Carol 37:01
That's amazing. Because when I go into her office, there's all kinds of diplomas and stuff. Yeah, I barely finished high school. And I did trade school because I knew I could at least make some money and not have to go to school for a whole lot of time. And I literally, I am their unicorn patient because of you up here to get up here to get an insulin pump. So in order for me to go back to work, I had to have control of my diabetes because I work me up in like buildings and set me up for stories in the air monsoon booms, God knows what I'm doing. So my boss isn't gonna let me at work. If I'm roller coaster, and you mean like they have no empathy. I mean, like so. But being an MDI, it's very hard to do a vigorous job, because you have to overcome so you know, burn it, but then sometimes you'll do the work you think you're going to do so next thing, you know, you need insulin, but you're, you know, hanging up here doing whatever and you don't want to pull out your pen, you know, I mean, like, so it makes it very difficult. So, at that November appointment, I literally walked in with a notepad and I knew I own that room near me because I knew I was going in there fully loaded. And I told them straight out I want a pump. And they're like, you can't get one for usually two years. I said no. I said I've learned you know, like as long as you have control, you understand MDI in case your pump fails, you know, I should be able to get a pump as I have coverage, why can't I get a pump and they kept giving me you know what, we want to see it for at least six months. So I hit the six month mark and now my a one C 6.1 or 6.2 is almost below set. And I got my thumbs and they told me I am the first person that their clinic in Moncton New Brunswick has ever given a pump to under six year

Scott Benner 38:58
over two years maybe they should learn something from that instead of just

Carol 39:02
actually told by my nurse that I missed my calling. She's like you should have been a diabetes educator because they learned from me now because when you look at my we have Daya signed up here for my tea slim. And um, unless I have a cheat you'll probably see my posts on Facebook. Where like I had lobster the other night.

Scott Benner 39:26
Oh yeah, that's me. Yeah, I saw you look good with that

Carol 39:30
lobster the lobster was great. It was Protein A hit me a little bit later. But the potato salad the broccoli salad and all the other stuff that I overlaid on kind of put me up to eight. But they told me they have never seen someone with pump control that I have.

Scott Benner 39:45
Oh, this they were here they have a stroke. Like what am I actually

Carol 39:51
directed them to your Facebook group. And my nurses listened to a couple like just the part of the question. Tip series. And she straight up told me she's like, if I let my patients listen to that, they wouldn't know what to do I said, then that's a problem on your it. Yeah. Everything had the proper knowledge and education from you at the start going in. They wouldn't be so scared. Yeah, it's it's all fear it because you guys don't teach anyone anything.

Scott Benner 40:20
Right? Let me jump in for a second and say something. First of all, I Googled zoom, boom, they're really cool. Now I want one. And the other thing is this, a little story that I think you said that the the somebody in your office said, you missed your calling, you're better at this than we are that kind of stuff. It made me think of this. While my son was out trying to find a college to be interested in for baseball, he had to go to all these workout things. And they'd play sometimes for days on these fields and hundreds of kids would show up and everyone, you know, got the play. And you were being evaluated by all these colleges. And usually on the last day, at the end of the day, they would run out of pitching before they'd run out of kids that had to hit. So they go into the dugout and say, can anybody throw a couple of innings for so we can get, you know, get finished. And my son by then was exhausted and tired and wanted to go home. And he put his hand up and say like a pitch if it gets us out of here, you know, but I don't I just I'll do it, right? So we'd go out and do it. This would happen almost every one of these things, and then they would catch us on the way out. And someone were to grab him and say, hey, you know, you had one of the best velocities here today, or you threw harder than anyone else today? How come you didn't workout as a pitcher? And my son would say, just because I throw faster than them doesn't make me a pitcher. It makes them not a pitcher. And I feel that way about the story you told, like you know, you can't that is such a it's such a bullshit thing to say to somebody like wow, you went out learned more than us. You missed your calling. No, you're not good at your calling.

Carol 42:02
backtracked on it. So, you know, once I got my Dexcom and I allowed them to see my data. No one's really taught me how to care care yet, like I've gone to dieticians, but they're still telling me the same you know, free foods this is where they killed me at the start was vegetables are free meat is free, and only read the labels. And you know, if it's not if it's a fiber, just take away the fiber. You mean they never ever talked about that and protein, like, oh my god, like if they would have told me about fat and protein besides just carbs. I think I would have brought my a one C down so much quicker, because I don't eat a whole lot of carbs, right? Like we're not like a Keto low carb hosts. But we like to eat well, like I said, so. But to me eating well was eating chicken eating, you know, pork, beef, avocados and stuff. But I didn't realize that all that fat and protein was affecting my diabetes. Yeah. I couldn't figure out why. I'm counting the carbs and a Pre-Bolus thing. I'm doing everything. But I'm just getting that right. And they kept telling me, Well, you're doing something wrong. And I'm like, No, I did everything you told me to do. It's not working. That's horrible. But thankfully you and Jenny did the episode on fat protein. No, I'm glad you like so I started listening to it. And then all of a sudden now I'm 90 95% and range, like I still got a spike. And you can't be flat all the time. But I had my ranges set between 3.9 and 9.5 at the time, and I was still in range like very well. But every now and then I would go low, because they were just telling me to carb count one to 20 and that's that. And that was it. Yeah, one to 20 and it wasn't working for me. So I had to start playing with it myself. But anytime I called them for help. I had 22 appointments cancelled between June and I think it was February the last time I counted like February of this year. And it wasn't just in person appointments like it was phone calls, Zoom calls, like in person like 22 appointments cancelled. So I just I gave up on my endo team and I just took everything in my hands. I think I drove my spokes nuts because I would listen to like your thyroid podcast. That one. That one was good because that's how I got 250 milligrams of Synthroid and got my TSH down to I think it's one 1.5 or 1.6.

Scott Benner 44:49
That's excellent and he would be very happy with that number. Exactly.

Carol 44:53
But doing all this stuff. My doctors are getting mad at me because first it was you brought your a one C down to quick. And then they got mad at me because I had a low here in there. And I'm like, instead of highlighting how good I've been doing, you call me to pick on me about one thing I said, but on top of it, you didn't teach me anything, but you're getting mad at me if I make a mistake. And if I wouldn't listen to them, I would have been high, but according to them, as long as I was between eight and 12, they were okay with that.

Scott Benner 45:28
I have a, an email here that came this morning from a pediatric endocrinologist. And I am hoping that they'll come on the show. And I can't I don't want to tell you what it seems wrong to just use her words. But it really makes me feel like you can reach these people. And that they that if they're in the right mindset to see it, that they might go, oh, wow, the thing I'm doing for people isn't really all that valuable. Maybe I should think about this a little differently. I'm beginning to wonder as you're talking if the sad part of your story, which was, you know, because of COVID. They kept like giving you the bum's rush out of the facility over and over again. If that isn't what maybe eventually saved you like is forcing you to pay attention to yourself. Well, I

Carol 46:22
think it did like that was kind of the silver lining of it. But what makes me wonder, too, is, I'm sure even beforehand, like most adults, I talked to you with type one. Up here, they don't know a whole lot, because they asked me all the time. They're like, Oh my god, like how are your numbers so well, because I'm in like, you know, type one Canadian groups. And we always do the number share and stuff like that. And I mean, I I'm not perfect, but you know, I keep some good lines. And they wonder you know how you do it. And it's amazing how it's pretty broad up here, the lack of basic education and knowledge, they kind of cookie cutter everyone up here. So people like me, when I asked questions and stuff, I've actually been written up as non compliant. Because I asked too many questions. And I didn't just do as I was told, I actually had one team tell me I was going to kill myself by making my a one see, as low as I was six. Below six, like right now I'm at 5.8. And they told me anything below 6.5 is dangerous, because that means you're having too many lows in their eyes. But my low percentage on my Dexcom is below 1%.

Scott Benner 47:42
Wow, are you doing great. And it's usually because

Carol 47:45
I'm at work and you know me like birth through more CareOne it's usually a car birth thing. I'm still kind of learning that. But yeah, sadly, only my nurse really sees how good I'm doing. But the problem that they so I'm trying to think I could work it by being me the problem that they over the years, they've given everybody such little help and information, it would be kind of hard to take everything you guys do, and start giving that to people. Like I have an ex boyfriend who long before I had diabetes, actually, I was dating him when I first started getting sick back in 2011. And he was a type one. And when I was with him, I cared about his diabetes to the point where I made him start eating right like me eating at the market and really helped him in the three and a half years I was with him. So I find that that really helped me when I get diagnosis pipeline. But I'm terrified of needles. So that was always my biggest fear. When I get that like when I get diagnosed that when I cried because I could not wrap my head around the fact that I had to give myself a needle now, multiple times a day,

Scott Benner 49:02
you know, count, let me say it's incredibly interesting through 45 minutes of talking to you. You have never once complained about having so many ailments. No,

Carol 49:14
that's because honestly, how I take it is I luck in that I'm one of them people that I don't succumb to it. I own it. So even I was talking to my died patient last week because of the Warsaw method. So that really worked out well for me along with like using because like I said I eat a lot of fat and protein. So when you guys did that episode, I was like, oh, like oh my god. That was the puzzle piece I was missing. Yeah, I mean like to finally nail that spike I couldn't get rid of

Scott Benner 49:51
did it feel good? Because Michelle was Canadian by any chance.

Carol 49:55
And when she was Canadian, I was like yeah so When I you know, I used it for like almost a week before I call my dietician, because they're kind of I know they want to believe what I do. But the problem is, is, if they do, they'll probably be outed for doing it. Do it. I mean, like to think outside the box up here is really taking a chance. Because if everybody did what I did, they wouldn't know what to do. I don't think I

Scott Benner 50:32
have to say to anyone listening who's in the profession, if you are knowingly not helping someone, you are willingly hurting them.

Carol 50:39
Yes, thank you. Because they are, because they make us feel like we're overthinking. We're crazy. We should just sit back and wait and listen. But we know our bodies. And especially when someone who has multiple conditions comes in and tells you, I don't feel right, listen to them. Because they've already been living with issues. For times beforehand. You've been paying what we've been doing for these past couple years that was working, all of a sudden, they come to you and they say, Hey, this isn't working anymore. Don't just push it aside and try to up a payment. Like, listen, because I can tell you that if I would have they told me I probably had like type one diabetes back they said for probably at least two to three years. But not really, really bad until probably about they said probably eight months is when like the honeymoon in ended enough to where my body couldn't keep up anymore. But during that time, no one listened to me. So when I was complaining about pain, they were like, oh, no, it's that. So no, it's that. But I never changed any of my payments. All I did was get my blood sugar in control. And I can tell you that between getting that and my thyroid in check. I feel better now. But I did. Before I ever complained about getting sick man,

Scott Benner 52:00
I say something. I think that the next step for me if I'm you is is your iron still bad?

Carol 52:08
Well, actually, my iron how I got control of that was during this time period. No doctors were listening to me like they were just, you know, pretty much treat me like I was just looking for pain meds because I'm a medical marijuana patient. So I have been for 12 years for pain, because I know, they gave me a lot of narcotics when you know the opiates were first introduced and are safe to use, they said and then when I started getting addicted to them, they blamed me. So when I called them for help, they were like, Well, you asked for them. Now I'm like, Oh no, you are not pulling me

Scott Benner 52:44
out. Canadians are supposed to be friendly. What's going on here?

Carol 52:48
Well, we are two other people, I guess. Other people, but so I was like okay, and I was already smoking weed recreationally because I was a single parent of two kids. And I'm not a drinker. So it was oh my god, like some women use. I use wine Xanax, you know, walking the dog. I need to join.

Scott Benner 53:14
I have to stop you for a second was walking the dog a euphemism? Or did you really mean going out walking the dog?

Carol 53:19
No, like really mean walking the dog like friends or like a dog for watching? I feel so much better than like, No, I own a bulldog. So I don't have to walk it.

Scott Benner 53:27
I totally. I totally thought you mentioned and I'll just bleep that. 100%

Carol 53:35
Well, you can after deck that part if you want. But so where I was a medical marijuana patient, a lot doctors didn't like that either, because I wasn't taking the payment. So it was kind of a catch 22 Because I knew it worked. But it wasn't because as you know, we only became legal here. I think what like five years ago six years ago when Trudeau got voted in which I didn't vote for by the way yeah 2014 I think it was so

Scott Benner 54:06
I took his weed but I didn't like him Yeah, well

Carol 54:09
well it's not even paid for is the worst part like even though I have a medical prescription for pain. I have to pay full price for my wheat. Oh, they won't cover no I have a prescription for it the only way in which I can get help as I can claim now my taxes as a medical expense. Okay. But if I had cancer, I would get it paid for and if you're a veteran in the military, you get a paid for. It's interesting. If you don't use it for anything, I mean, like it's very limitedly paid for up here. It's supported for use but you have to pay for it. So they would pay for all my pills and stuff but they will pay for my CBD oil but with the pills I take the pills I need another pill. I now need a pill to sleep now. I need a pill to heal. I mean like yeah, they're happy to pay for the CBD oil. Yeah, so CBD

Scott Benner 54:53
oil companies to get a better lobbyist and then that would be covered too.

Carol 54:58
Yeah, so I'm hoping one happens, but not yet. Gotcha. So I take a drug called cosentyx. It's a biological drug. That's how I got around having to take a lot of payments, because it's one injection. But I've learned now being diabetic, it causes a lot of insulin resistance. So I have to make a special profile double my Basal and my doctors thought I was crazy. So I got diagnosed with the pain conditions and everything, and they wanted me on this biological drug, but I just got diagnosed with diabetes, and I didn't want to do you know, deal with diabetes, throw this biological drug in, you know, I mean, like, just Yeah, I am. I dumped that much into my body fire at the time. So I just dealt with the diabetes. And I was like, I'll get to the pain because I've already been dealing with pain so long. I mean, like, I can wait a little bit longer just

Scott Benner 55:49
name the app. Oh, did you hear yourself? Do it? DIY you just named the episode. Did you hear yourself do it? No. Body fire. Nice. Yeah, that's it, you just on your own. I have a

Carol 56:01
second thing was is after once I started getting my diabetes and control. I didn't have as much body pain. So I went from meeting like, I think it was 600 milligrams of this drug. Now I'm down to 150. Because having my blood sugar in control and my thyroid in control, really lessen my pain.

Scott Benner 56:21
We didn't answer the question. Did we about your iron? Where's your iron level at now? Your ferritin? Do you know?

Carol 56:27
I don't know. But they told me it's perfect. They don't listen to them. Because, well, I listen to this stuff. There's a reason why I listen to this certain doctor is because he's the one who found it. When no other doctor would listen. He was a pain clinic doctor and he's like, look, he's like you are on enough medication to kill a small animal if you add it all up. Really? Yeah, he's like something else is fueling this fire. Let's do a full blood panel. We're gonna check your iron. We're gonna check everything. And he put me on an iron infusion.

Scott Benner 56:58
Oh, good for you.

Carol 56:59
That's what I was gonna so but I laugh because where you keep doing the maple syrup reference is it looks like maple syrup. In an IV bag up here.

Scott Benner 57:07
I think it looks like rusty water to me.

Carol 57:09
Well, up here just when I first seen begins with a V. I can't remember the name of it. venofer That's it. And yeah, when they first hooked it out to me was like, oh my god, it looks like maple syrup and a bag and she kind of laughed. I was like, It's my Canadian super sauce. I just think like,

Scott Benner 57:24
I don't want to inject it. Can you mix it with snow and I'll eat it like a lollipop.

Carol 57:29
But after I got three injections of that, yeah, that was a that was last summer. So it's been almost a year. My iron has been it's him that's checking it. Yeah. I mean, not just my general practitioner. It's that doctor. Yeah, I mean, so I think he was the one who found it. I really trust you mean him looking? I see so many other doctors I lose track sometimes. Who? You I mean, like what what is sometimes he told me he was like you are like right where you where you need to because I was borderline going to get a hysterectomy. Because I was getting such bad periods that they were saying, Oh, it's it's your period causing your anemia. So I did the Appalachian first and then that didn't work. Because I still got one in a way.

Scott Benner 58:15
Wait, you laser. Oh, you laser lady business. You still got your period?

Carol 58:19
Yeah. Wow. And that's when this doctor was like, Okay, no, like something's wrong. Because they told me if I were to go get a hysterectomy, my blood levels were so low, I would have had to get a blood transfusion before and after the surgery and I was like, Okay, I'm not comfortable. Like, give me something. They write that sounds pretty risky. And he goes, No, no, he goes before we do that, like let's try this. And after I did the iron infusions he came back in, I think it was like two months and four months later and did follow up bloodwork. And I didn't have to get the hysterectomy I would have to get the blood transfusion.

Scott Benner 58:54
I'm not a doctor which I think is obvious to anybody who listens. But if you have any kind of autoimmune stuff going on or in general you're a lady and you feel rundown tired a little snappy with people confused foggy get dizzy, anything like that I get your iron jacket your iron check and don't take it's in range as an answer. Listen to what Addy so in the thyroid episode if you're a if you're a woman of baby making age over 70 At least. And if you want your you know if you want to feel well. I'm a huge proponent after I found out that my iron was low and saw what havoc it was wreaking on my life and now you know, every day I walk around here like a pill pusher with vitamin D. O iron, a sorbic acid, a couple of different vitamins. I just walk around and just leave

Carol 59:47
them I take the men Centrum, because the women Centrum has extra iron and where I got the infusion I didn't want to like give myself too much

Scott Benner 59:58
right? Oh no, I understand. It's like It's like gassing up your car. And you don't want it to get to. But you don't want it

Carol 1:00:03
to over octane boost in your body like every now and then you see people pour those little additives in your car I find it's like the same thing. Your body is only what you put in it, you immediately get out of it what you put in it.

Scott Benner 1:00:15
I just watched an iron infusion bring Arden back to life again. So we got crazy. Yeah, it um, what what had happened to her was low iron. We got an infusion didn't realize the low iron was because of like crazy periods. So we pumped our iron back up, watched her feel better. And we're like, we fixed it. And then it went back down again. Yeah, we're like, Wait, what happened? Then we started really talking to her. So she was young. And she wasn't really saying a lot. But we started noticing like she was going through like a lot of like, like, accoutrements for a period of time. And, and we were like, what's going on, and it was turned out, she was getting her period for 11 days in a row, and then get up getting a break for a couple of days, and then getting it again. Wow. And it was just happening over and over and over again. So girl, oh my god, it took us a month to figure out what to try to do. Then we decided to put it on birth control than the first Bearskin first birth control they gave her wasn't strong enough, they made us use that for two months before they said up it. So by the time we got to the birth control, that was right, we were four or five months into it. It took a couple of months on that birth control to regulator periods, and then we got her another infusion, and then the infusions don't work right away. So now just in the last two weeks, has she started feeling she's starting acting like herself again, she's not dragging all over the house and stuff.

Carol 1:01:35
It's crazy. Like low iron can do do

Scott Benner 1:01:38
Yeah, it's literally like you're dying. And yet, it's not enough that you would notice it because of that. It's that slow fall that you don't notice you're falling. You know, you just you get a match until you're at the edge and you can't fall anymore, right? And then you just out of your mind. And then people are like,

Carol 1:01:57
when I got my iron infusion, I got my first one June the first. And I went in to emerge in DKA on June the third. And part of what my pain clinic doctor said what happened was is my body was so dead. You mean like it was just I was they told me I was borderline of a coma. And when I got that iron, he said, I gave myself something good really fast, and my body didn't know what to do. And that was kind of the the straw that broke the camel's back, even though it was healthy health. It's still my body just didn't know what's

Scott Benner 1:02:32
going on. You know, you really might a year from now be a different person? I think so. Yeah. It's interesting. You, you don't I mean, like you put out the body fire. And now like, let's wait and see how because even like when you get an infusion, it doesn't work immediately because your body has to your body's constantly making red blood cells. And prior to you having enough ferritin iron in your system, etc. Your body was making these cells with incomplete building blocks. And now it makes new ones with the correct amount of ferritin in your system. But he

Carol 1:03:07
told me that's why he did it at two, four and six months was to watch the progression of it, I guess. Yeah. Because he would be because some people need it for more than three months. I did three months. And luckily I haven't needed any more. You mean Yeah. And my iron still good. Like I just had my blood work done about two weeks ago at the clinic down here and my like they told me my iron was still good. Yeah, my TSH is below to my a one C is 5.8. And, yeah, but compared to what I was last year, like I already feel like a whole different person.

Scott Benner 1:03:47
You almost made me cry. And this the conversation was not going like that you just rattled off your numbers, and I got a little misty here. Um, so

Carol 1:03:54
it's crazy that and my doctor team, like my team knows it that if I would have listened to them, I would not be where I was. Yeah. So if I would have you I mean, like if I would have did the 1010 and 10. Now I gotta wait three months for a follow up appointment to make a change. Then you gotta wait. You mean wait, wait, wait. So in order to get where I am listening and waiting for appointments, it would have taken me a couple years. Yeah, I did it. But I got to where I needed to be without before I even got a chance to see them. I demand

Scott Benner 1:04:27
that those people send me two months of their salary. What do you think of?

Carol 1:04:33
This Well, the end even worse, but you're really up here on this side of Canada. Not a lot. A whole lot of people have type one because I mean, there's not a whole lot of like a big population here. But no one in my clinic had a T slim so when I did my training, my endo nurse sat beside me and did hers two

Scott Benner 1:04:54
guys did it together. Well that's nice. Yeah, at least it was

Carol 1:04:57
funny cuz well it was funny because before you do it They send you a thing that says, watch all these videos. And I was already like, I mean, oh my god, I already listened to your podcast three times over. And I mean, like, I was ready for this pump. And we get in there and the woman's talking and she's asking, like, you know, page six questions, and I looked right at her, I'm like, Girl, I had an hour, did you read the book and watch the videos like she told us to, like, You're messing with my time here.

Scott Benner 1:05:27
I have an hour. And then it takes me four years to come back and see you again.

Carol 1:05:30
Pretty much like God. And the trainer, just laugh because she couldn't believe from listening to your podcasts, how advanced I was, like, we got to talk about, you know, really in depth stuff. Because for my training, because of COVID, it was done by zoom. So they sent me my pump, I didn't get the, you know, the, the saline pass or anything, I was literally just, you know, sent it, they watched my Dexcom they looked at my blood work, the doctor did up her numbers. And that was what I had to wait for. And they took two and a half months to get her to do that. It took so long. But literally, I get tired of waiting. And I started looking up how to do it yourself the whole math theories of your times and things by 1800. And dividing by this and figuring out my own correction factor was my first pump. So I needed to figure out correction factors and hourlies. And the only all that stuff and I just for curiosity, I made a list of what I thought it was. And I'm closer to because on now I got my pump March 11. So I'm two ish months in, and my pump is closer to the values that I figured out that were my endo team had me,

Scott Benner 1:06:48
I'm glad for you. That's really lovely. But

Carol 1:06:51
again, it's one of those lack of education. And doctors always tell you don't listen to what you hear and find on the internet. But if I wouldn't listen to what I found on the internet, I would have died.

Scott Benner 1:07:05
Well, let's be fair, a lot of things on the internet are ridiculous This podcast is

Carol 1:07:09
they are but if you have common sense, you can figure out the difference. You can figure out the difference between facts and

Scott Benner 1:07:15
bullshit. No, but now we're asking for everybody to have common sense that might be

Carol 1:07:18
that's the thing, like I know, say 1000 People watch the same thing, you know, maybe 10 of them are gonna have common sense. But doctor should be able to kind of tell the difference. And a little bit to like, if you're scared that your patient knows more than you. Don't ignore your patient, and maybe try to figure out what they did to me. Like when I was doing things that they couldn't believe how I got there. But I didn't do it their way. They just ignored me when I would call or I get the you're doing better than we could help you with Why are you calling us?

Unknown Speaker 1:07:52
Yeah, okay.

Carol 1:07:56
I have ADHD. So it's one of those. I strive for, like, a very competitive. So my time in range, it has 100% possibility. So if I only have 90%, that means I have 10% failure. Like that's how I look at it. So to me, that means I can do better. There's room for exactly. But when you don't have the support, like I understand that, not everybody cares as much as I do. But there should be help or resources available for the people who actually do care. Treat everyone and educate everyone

Scott Benner 1:08:36
like they don't care. Well, there should be resources for everyone.

Carol 1:08:39
And but there's not really like when you leave up here as an adult. Like I said, I was sent out within 12 hours, I was given no follow up, no courses, no counseling. I was given a pamphlet in November when I finally made it in. And it had very basic stuff in it. And it had all these free food ranges where you know, these, you can eat these Neopia to worry about it. And everything in that book to me was bullshit. Because I had learned and proven to myself that that isn't right. But if I questioned it, I'm non compliant, it

Scott Benner 1:09:14
would actually write you up. That's it. Like a slip in your file.

Carol 1:09:18
Yeah, so it got to the point that I guess I don't really I call them I just call them if I need prescriptions.

Scott Benner 1:09:26
You should start writing them up. You should.

Carol 1:09:29
Well, doesn't really do any good up here. Like I tried on other issues I have and yeah, you're better off just to pat pat yourself on the back and realize that you know, you figured it out before you

Scott Benner 1:09:41
let the rest of it go. That's That's good advice.

Carol 1:09:45
But yeah, that's her. Yeah. That's why sometimes I'm like, everyone's like, oh, we need health care like Canada. I'm like, Oh, if you guys do it, please do it better than we did. Well, we have great insurance, but there's no private here. So if I In Quebec, I could get better care because there's a private clinic. If I lived in Ontario, there's a private clinic. But on the East Coast, there's no private clinic. So even

Scott Benner 1:10:09
in a scenario where they are providing free health care for everyone, you're saying that where you can spread some money around you find more competent people?

Carol 1:10:16
Yes, yeah. Well, you find people who are more like your thyroid doctor. Remember the one you had on who actually like, Addy? Yeah, she's up here. When you get into see a doctor. It's not like, they even read your file, because I've even had to like, ask them, you know, like, have you read my file? Like, if you try and give me that I know, that's going to go against this other medication, Amman. And they're like, oh, yeah, no, like, it's so rushed here. And it's so overbooked and stuff that you can't completely blame the doctor. It's the structure of the healthcare system itself. Because there's so little doctors and nurses hear that they don't have time to give. Because they only have 20 minutes with you. And if you're lucky, you get that 20 minutes because usually, if you go to a doctor's appointment, say your appointments for one o'clock, I get there 10 minutes early, I probably don't get in until quarter after 20 after one. So now I'm going into someone else's appointment. But yet at one o'clock they booked in someone else too. So that doctor is expected to see two people in that timespan. How do you get adequate help and service with someone who doesn't even have time to read your file before you

Scott Benner 1:11:30
talk to them? When you come back? Do you see the same person or do you see a different person

Carol 1:11:33
you see the same person but it's another one of those unless you stick out? It's just a cookie cutter. You open the door? It's bad, but like, yeah, sometimes I don't even have time to look you in the eye.

Scott Benner 1:11:45
It's a difficult job. I mean, I wouldn't want

Carol 1:11:50
a lot of people always want to blame the doctor. But I know it's not all because the doctor I have now the end know she's awesome. But the problem is, is she's it took me a bit together. But she's so overworked that I get calls from her at seven o'clock at night. She emails me I have her cell number, because she knows that I don't mind the after hours help. And she knows that when she helps me. I'm going to use it. Right? Plus she knows I appreciate the time she has to give me but it's so bad up here for appointments. And this was before COVID that thankfully, because of COVID Doctors can call you now instead of always seeing you in office. My rheumatologist the other week calls me at 830 at night. Because I agree to an after hours call at 830 at night. Yeah, I mean, I'm not expecting a call from my specialist. That's the only time he had time to call me. But I had time to talk to him. It wasn't rushed. You mean like I got a 40 minute call with him. Wow. So it is one good thing, but not every doctor has that time either. Because up here like everyone, you know, I think everyone thinks like, our free health cares is big. Like, you know, you just go in and you get help whenever you want. And to me like it's it's free. Yeah, we don't pay for it. But you have to wait.

Scott Benner 1:13:20
Everybody wants to imagine that something that sounds better is better. And I'm not saying I am genuinely not saying healthcare shouldn't be, you know, free? I think I think it should. And but I think you're also being crazy. If you don't imagine cool. Yeah, you're you're also being crazy. If you don't imagine that people who have more money to throw around aren't getting better service, like forget health care for a second. You know, if I go into McDonald's,

Carol 1:13:47
I know a personal experience where I know someone who needed an MRI. Now me I can't afford to pay for an MRI out of pocket dirt. I think 15 1800 bucks out of pocket. And then if you have insurance, you know, I mean, like you can submit your receipt or whatever. So if you go into a doctor, and they're like, Okay, you need an MRI, but we can't get you in for six months, if you can't afford to go to the private place here in New Brunswick, and pay that you gotta wait that six months. But if you're the person who can go in and the doctor says you gotta wait six months, and you're like, No, no, no, no, I'll just go pay for it. Next week, you'll have it, they will actually call the MRI office. And you'll get in, they'll squeeze you in because they know you're serious. That's how they take. Like, I find in my own personal experience that when I threatened to pay for something or do it on my own. They take that as oh my god, she's serious. And then they kind of rush it a little bit more

Scott Benner 1:14:40
interesting. It's the version of giving $20 to the maitre d and saying please don't put me near the bathroom.

Carol 1:14:45
It is but when they say you know, like, it doesn't matter whatever but in a way it does is if you threaten to do it yourself. They don't want you to do it yourself. Don't find a way to get you in like I've gone from having to wait six months being told we can get you into

Scott Benner 1:15:01
just seems like if it takes six months to get an MRI, if you bought one more MRI machine and hired a few more people than it would take three months, which then would make me think if we bought another MRI machine, you know, like maybe just a couple of MRI machine system technicians is the answer.

Carol 1:15:16
It is right. I don't know if you pay attention to how Canadians waste money on absolutely the stupidest things ever. But um, yeah, that's why we don't have money for those said MRI machines because we give away a lot of money and spend a lot of money on stupid things.

Scott Benner 1:15:31
Are you talking about that game where you push the thing on the ice? Like, oh, hockey? No, not that one. What's the one that um, that was funny, but that's not what I mean. What is it a shoot, what is it carrying it? I don't I mean, you can keep guessing if you want, but let me it's an Olympic game.

Carol 1:15:51
We have lacrosse, but you'll play that ice I guess.

Scott Benner 1:15:56
Oh, wait, here it is. I found a picture of it. I'm gonna click on the picture and see what they call it. That by the way, everyone, that's how the internet works. It curling.

Carol 1:16:10
Oh, curling. Yeah. Roxanne's and stones around and tried to get in the circles there at the end.

Scott Benner 1:16:17
It's mesmerizing to watch on television.

Carol 1:16:20
But it's one of those sports you're like, it's kind of like watching to me. It's like watching someone play poker or play pool like or darts. You're just like, why, but you can't help but watch. Because it's so cool how they can actually, you know, glide that stone thing right where they needed to go.

Scott Benner 1:16:36
It's amazing. It really is. I'm assuming we wouldn't have this if it wasn't for Canadians. It looks like two kitchen mops and a stone with a handle on a nice thing. It's fantastic. I

Carol 1:16:46
like sliding the kettle like one of those old titles used to see on like windows back in the day like slide one.

Scott Benner 1:16:52
It's wonderful. It really is.

Carol 1:16:55
kourlis, the news, Canadian?

Scott Benner 1:16:58
Yeah, I want to thank you for doing this. You were terrific. I thought you did a really good job of presenting what was happening to you. i There's something about our connection where I couldn't talk too much. Because you would talk she would like just keep going. Or that was your ADHD. I'm not 100% sure which one it was, but a little bit of column A and B, but it worked fantastic for this because you just did such a good job. And you were answering questions as I like I'd get a question in my mouth that you would keep talking. I was like, Oh, she's got this. So is there anything though, that we didn't talk about that you wanted to that didn't come up? I want to ask before I let you go.

Carol 1:17:34
Not really just to I don't know I just to remind people that if you are like if you're a parent or say you're listening and you're like a friend of someone, don't think that you can't get diabetes, type one diabetes, just because you're not under 21. And you're not in perfect health or whatever. Because I think I got it because I had a serious infection and stuff. And if you have other autoimmune diseases, always watch for piggyback diseases. Yeah. Because everything's an umbrella from what I learned, like, it started off as one then it developed into two, and everything's related. So don't ignore anything. And don't ever let your doctor like dismiss you like if you honestly believe it, fight for it.

Scott Benner 1:18:32
A huge thank you to one of today's sponsors, GE voc glucagon, find out more about Chivo Kaipa pen at G Vogue glucagon.com Ford slash juicebox. you spell that GVOKEGL You see ag o n.com. Forward slash juicebox. I'd also like to thank touched by type one and remind you to go to touched by type one.org and find them on Instagram and Facebook. And of course, T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox. Go take that survey. squared. You take your lesson take eight minutes I can do it right there on your phone. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.

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