#770 Hate Listen

October 11, 2022Scott Benner

Melena has type 1 diabetes.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, you're listening to Episode 770 of the Juicebox Podcast. Cue the music

on today's show we're going to be speaking with Molina, she's 20 years old lives in Germany and has had type one diabetes for most of her life. While you're listening to Molina tell her story, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, please Always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. We're becoming bold with insulin. I'm looking for type one or type one caregivers who are US residents to go to T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juice box and fill out a very short survey. When you complete the survey. You have helped me You have helped yourself and you've helped other people living with type one diabetes, T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox. easy questions. You know the answers to these questions. They're not super difficult. They are completely anonymous. The questions and the entire thing are HIPAA compliant. You're safe, you're covered and you're helping T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox take you fewer than 10 minutes. Damn custody time.

Let's hope that said what I thought I did. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by Dexcom, makers of the Dexcom G six continuous glucose monitoring system. And the Dexcom G seven which was just released in the United Kingdom, Ireland, Germany, Austria and Hong Kong, more countries the GM very soon, learn more or get started today@dexcom.com forward slash juicebox you may be eligible for a free 10 day trial, the Dexcom G six Learn more at my link. This show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries. G voc hypo Penn. Find out more at G voc glucagon.com. Forward slash juicebox

Melena 2:16
Hi, my name is Melina. I'm 20 years old. I live in South Germany. And I've had diabetes for I think 16 years.

Scott Benner 2:28
You think 16 years? I think I'm just doing the math. Yeah. Soon to be 17 years. You know, I kind of like it when people don't exactly know. Because it just feels so normal. They're like I don't know, I've had it for a while now. diagnosed as a kid. And are you do you live on your own? You do right?

Melena 2:52
Um, well, I am I'm kind of an in between situation. So I'm currently working in internship quite close to home. So I spend like the week at my own flat, and I go home during the weekends. Oh,

Scott Benner 3:10
that's nice. So you see you live with your parents, but you have this situation where you're gone for a little while at your own place. Exactly. Excellent. So you're out of college, or this is part of part of university.

Melena 3:23
This is like the last part of college. Okay. I'm finishing up now.

Scott Benner 3:28
Nice. What's your degree in?

Melena 3:31
Psychology?

Scott Benner 3:33
Excellent. Don't pick me apart too much. Okay, while we're doing this, if you notice, I'm really unstable. Tell me privately. I you know what, I don't care. Tell me here if you want to. So what made you interested in that line of work?

Melena 3:49
Well, I got I shouldn't be telling this.

Scott Benner 3:55
This sounds like a good start. Believe it. Let's tell us, let's tell me some things. You don't want to tell anybody?

Melena 4:00
No. I'm more interested in like General Psychology not like therapy or anything like that. And what kind of got me interested is we live in a world with so much technology around us where human error is kind of one of the biggest pods. So understanding why we as humans are as fallible as we are was like one of my major motivations.

Scott Benner 4:30
I like that. Have you figured anything out so far?

Melena 4:35
Well, a lot, actually. I mean, humans have so many biases and make so many errors, which I mean, we all make the same mistakes. Technically. Yeah. So that's been interesting.

Scott Benner 4:56
So simple stuff like we have a preconceived notion about something? And then even if the correct answer is presented to us, we can't see it. And not only can we not see it, but we'll defend our position. Is that right?

Melena 5:10
Exactly? Yeah. Well, like, the first impression you get off a person is going to influence your entire behavior towards the person. Even if everything that happened after your first meeting is completely unrelated to that,

Scott Benner 5:25
if the person you met was aware of that, can they change how you feel about them?

Melena 5:32
Not really, actually, that's one of the hardest things about biases that are very, very hard to avoid, even if you yourself are aware of them.

Scott Benner 5:44
Is it uncommon for people to be aware of them?

Melena 5:48
I mean, most people don't really think about them at all. So there, there's kind of not not a desire for awareness. I mean, in our social behavior, and everything regarding to that we make so many small, unconscious decisions. I don't think people even spend time thinking about this. And therefore there's not that much to be aware about, in most people's Well, minds.

Scott Benner 6:17
Is this, why we see, what's an example why we see people save vote against their own best interest sometimes?

Melena 6:28
That's one example. Yes, yeah.

Scott Benner 6:30
Like you've you just somebody has sold you a bill of goods, and you believe in it so much, that you can look in the face of it and say, I'm going to I'm going to support this, even though even though it's going to hurt you? Yes, yeah. It's fantastic, isn't it? Is it because we're on? What's the word I want? Is it because our minds are still mostly undeveloped?

Melena 6:58
Well, I, I don't actually know. I have to be homeless? Yeah, um, I think it's because there's so many things going on in our minds. I mean, the part of our decision making, which we experienced consciously is a very small part, there are very many things, basically, open browser taps in the back of our head, okay, which are always working. And so I actually think this is an effect of our mind doing a lot of things and our consciousness being very limited.

Scott Benner 7:37
So, so what, what should we do? Should we put a like, I guess maybe all you could do is try to be ultra aware of your actions and reactions, and judge them in the moment and then have some sort of a process set up in your own life where you can put a stop to them, and read and then and then you make the next decision you would make about that? That subject, I would guess then would be more conscious and less coming from one of those open tabs.

Melena 8:08
Yeah, yeah. So as I said before, like, the biggest part in fighting all of these unconscious effects is awareness of them. Like if you consciously start thinking about, hey, why don't I like this person, for example? You're you tend to be more aware of the reasons things like this happen.

Scott Benner 8:31
It's interesting. I think it's, have you found ways I should say that are applicable to diabetes?

Melena 8:40
Well, I mean, it's kind of this thing, I have thought about this in the past. And I think maybe it's people who like to stick to like one kind of technology, like people who don't want to pump because they're so used to their pants, pants like this, this notion of their pants working. And this being the thing that once helped them that they want don't want to get, like another option. So I think this is kind of familiar.

Scott Benner 9:19
I can tell you a place that maybe

Melena 9:20
if like when way of therapy has been very successful in the past, and you don't want to try new things, because you've got like, the positive effect of this going on.

Scott Benner 9:36
I've seen it I think a little when people talk about insulin pricing as an example. Because you have this very obvious reaction, like this shouldn't be this expensive, right? We shouldn't.

Melena 9:49
I'm gonna interrupt you right there. I'm from Germany.

Scott Benner 9:55
You don't pay for your insulin.

Melena 9:56
Identify for my insulin.

Scott Benner 9:59
Well, We'll pick something else, then it's, you know, let's see, I don't know, I don't I don't have an apples to apples. I'm just gonna have to keep going with my description for a second. But you know insolence expensive here. And it's, you know, if you're covered by insurance for some people, it almost cost nothing I would, I would expect that we don't pay, you know, out of pocket, it's easy to say I probably pay $20 a month or something for insulin, which isn't true, we have a health insurance plan, which I think we probably contribute. Oh, gosh, by the time you pay for the plan every month out of your paycheck, and then there's an amount of money, you have to pay cash in the beginning, I probably pay $8,000 a year for health insurance. So you know, to say that insolence $20 isn't really fair. All of our doctor's appointments, aren't in support supplies, etc. cost us, you know, I bet we pay eight to $10,000 a year for all that stuff. And then there's copays where you sometimes show up at an office and have to still pay $20 or $40, and etc, medications, etc. But but the point is, is that when you hear people argue about it and say it should be free, I say I say yes, it definitely should be free. And they'll say, well, in Germany, it's free. Why can't we do that here? And then I don't know, I might say, well, then that's just not how it's set up here right now, you know, and there are people who make money off of it in all different kinds of ways. So just saying that you think it should be free is not going to fix it? Right, you need, you need to see a bigger picture. And there are ways to attack the problems. Now we're not talking about insulin prices anymore. We're talking about democracy, commerce, you know, you know how people make money, but but when the argument happens, it's just like, This is wrong. And I'm like, No, I, I know it's wrong. Now get past that and come up with an answer. And then sometimes the answers like, freak me out, like I had a person tell me one time. Pharmaceutical companies shouldn't have PR departments, they shouldn't run ads, and then they would save all kinds of money on that. And then that money, they could take off the price of insulin. I said, Well, that's, I mean, okay, like, I don't know if that's a real idea or not, but take your opinion. And we'll keep moving forward, I said, What happens if one of the PR executives has diabetes, and now he doesn't have a job, and now he can't afford his and his insulin, but now we give the money we were gonna give him we give it to somebody else, now they can afford us a different really fix the problem, you've moved the problem around a little bit. And then the response is so emotional, that they can't talk through the real problem. And I wonder if that's not a similar situation, where you just keep having an emotional response to something, instead of being able to step back, and then work through the rest of it, like all of the other problems, and I mean, it's a little bit of a stretch to attach it to diabetes, but it is what happens to people they get caught in whatever kind of occurs to them. First of this isn't right now, this is what I defend, or someone else steps up and goes, well, people have to make money too. And then that's the perspective that they defend. Nobody ever stands in the middle and tries to absorb all of the complexity. I guess, that that's, that's uncommon. Sometimes.

Melena 13:29
I think I kind of the comparison I'm thinking of is the the example you always use when someone's always going low, because their Basal is technically too low. The Basal rates not strong enough, and they keep correcting. And they always think like, there's so there must be too much insulin going on, which technically it is because of the corrections. But the core of the problem if they would step away from the current situation would be that it's actually not enough.

Scott Benner 14:03
Yeah. I gotcha. That's I tell I talked about all the time, you must like this podcast

Melena 14:10
might have listened to some episodes.

Scott Benner 14:16
How long have you been aware of the podcast?

Melena 14:20
Um, I think late 2018, early 2019.

Scott Benner 14:27
Nice. I was really hitting my stride then. Although I think I've done some good stuff prior to that. There just weren't as many people. There weren't as many people listening at that point. How did you find

Melena 14:40
it? Um, actually, it was kind of like, and I don't want to call it an accident, but I just I scrolled past it because when I moved out from my parents for university, I was living Yes, in a single person fled. So during most of the I just I had no one to talk to. And so I generally started listening to podcasts. And, well, there are only so many true crime podcasts out there. And so I kind of just went around for looking for, like things I could listen to, which would interest me. And diabetes was not something I was thinking about. But the moment it showed up on I think it was Spotify. I was kind of thinking, Well, I have diabetes. I could just as well listen to this.

Scott Benner 15:46
I appreciate that. I know of the true crime. The true crime podcasts are apparently huge. With with, especially with women, apparently. I don't understand why, but I'm glad that you were able to get away from them. I've just looked while you're talking. And Germany is my fifth most popular country. Oh, okay. You beat beat New Zealand, who, by the way, New Zealand, you're dropping off a little bit. So let's try to get it together. Okay. That's a win when you find it, and I'm American, does that change anything for you?

Melena 16:22
Not really, um, I mean, I listen to a lot of podcasts and English, and I watch most of the TV I watched watching English, though, doesn't really make a difference. And we also like use what's what's the unit, or milligrams per deciliter for blood sugar levels. So it was actually kind of helpful. Americans.

Scott Benner 16:51
Okay, what happens when you realize I'm now listening to a diabetes podcast by an American who doesn't have diabetes?

Melena 16:59
Well, I'm, I'm thinking of how I'm gonna express myself here. First, I was kind of mad at you, maybe. Because the thing is, when I was diagnosed when I was four, and up until my teen years, my father was the person responsible for most of all other diabetes related things. And that cause us to not have such a great relationship to some of my teen years. So listening to a father talking about his daughter's diabetes, which she manages, um, I mean, I was interested I was I was also kind of like, I didn't want to say hate listening, but it kind of started is that

Scott Benner 17:57
I imagine a lot of people hate Listen, but that's that's okay with me mad because I shouldn't be talking about something I don't have or mad because I'm doing something with my daughter you wish your dad did? Or what's this? How does that hit? You?

Melena 18:14
know, I kind of I think like, looking at someone's blood sugar, treating someone with insulin, always like the idea of back when I was growing up Dexcom was not as big as it is now. It wasn't a thing in the early years, even like the idea of when I was like, I don't know, in my early teens, or late late childhood, somewhere around that. If my father would have had like, like a Dexcom to look at and would have basically followed me around, like, Western looking at my numbers. I kind of think this is a scary thing for me to imagine.

Scott Benner 19:04
Would it feel in true Civ? Or you just wouldn't want your dad that close all the time? Or,

Melena 19:10
um, I would feel intrusive and also like being in control of some someone else like, pretty much completely. So. Yeah.

Scott Benner 19:23
Okay. I gotcha. That makes sense to me. How long did you listen with the stain before you started to think? I like this podcast, and I like what we're talking about.

Melena 19:37
Well, once I started trying the things you actually were talking about, ah, well, I was, as I said, I was living on my own I was going to universities, so I kind of made my own schedule. I could time when and what I ate, so I had a lot of time to drain I try new things with using insulin with different foods and stuff. And once like I got into this off, I've mentioned up to until that point, I've basically managed my diabetes the same way since I started managing on my own. And with the ideas I got from the podcast, I started to well have better control, see the better numbers, and there was kind of thinking like, this guy might actually know what he's talking about.

Scott Benner 20:34
So you, you know, people might think I did this on purpose, but I did not know Molina's background and psychology before we started doing this. So I just wanted to be clear that I did not know about that before we started but basically, you just went through the entire process that we spoke about in the beginning, like having a preconceived notion of something but then you broke free of it, which is a now we know from the earlier part of our conversation is a is a really a kind of a big celebration to have, because it's uncommon. So you're saying that most commonly people would listen to it have their reaction and not be able to adjust? So did you do something to help yourself adjust or do you think that the desperation that diabetes puts you in just makes you open to listen to different ideas?

Melena 21:28
I mean, I would not call it desperation because I the way I was managing my diabetes I did not have any issues so I was I was not looking for answers I basically stumbled upon them I see um, but I just think like the effects the management methods had on my blood sugar were greater than any of my preconceived notions so the the good results I got out of listening were like greater than well, then that your hate me not liking Yeah,

Scott Benner 22:09
I might call this episode hate Listen, but that's, that's not decided yet. Okay, so we're like what was your agency when you were I don't know 17 or 18.

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Melena 24:59
I'm not Not that bad. Technically, I think it was like 6.4 or something. So it wasn't bad, but like my time and range was 50 to 65%. Because I spent like the entire day going from the 40s to 250 and back.

Scott Benner 25:26
So you were one of those people who was tricking the system a little bit your, your time and range proves out that you're a one C might not be well earned, I guess, you know, like, or I don't know if well is the way to put it, but you might have been tricking the system a little bit by being low, so much, right. And then you bounce up. And so what was the first thing that you heard on the podcast that got you moving in the right direction?

Melena 25:53
Um, well, it's always kind of been like, I was not actually tricking the system because my doctor was one of the first doctors in like in our area, who looked more at Timon range versus HB one. See? So I kind of got a little bit of scolding at my appointments. I just like I was 17. I did not bother.

Scott Benner 26:22
You weren't listening when he was scolding, by the way also being scolded in German. Yes, yes. Which is it's, it's a harsher language. Does it feel scarier? Like, is there something that I could say to you in English? That would sound better that if it got said to you in German?

Melena 26:37
Um, I don't think so. But I mean, I'm just used to the language.

Scott Benner 26:44
Can we can we test it very quickly. I'll say I'll say something. And then you say it back to me. You say the same thing back to me. Let me think.

Melena 26:54
I'm supposed to say it in German. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Okay.

Scott Benner 26:57
You can do that. Right. You speak German? Yes, I do. Okay, all right. So hold on. Molina, I need you to try harder to keep your blood sugar in range.

Melena 27:10
Okay, let me think how I'm gonna translate that. Scott to massage my understanding. And I'm Bledsoe County, Arkansas. That's Ohio.

Scott Benner 27:22
Okay, so I will let the people listening decide which one sounded harsher. But I was trying to be a little harsh. So okay, so I'm trying to imagine you're 17 years old, getting the you know, the riot act read to you about your sixth floor. But are you looking at the sixth floor and thinking, but this six four is good. Like, why are you yelling at me? Or did you understand why the doctor wasn't thrilled with it?

Melena 27:46
Well, I didn't understand why it wasn't for that. Because I was like thinking, Well, of course, the numbers go up and down. But like, the average is okay, I'm, I'm coming out on top at the end of the day. So why are you yelling at me, I did not get at that point that the fluctuation in blood sugars was just as bad if not worse than high blood sugar is very prominently

Scott Benner 28:12
binding stability is very, very important. That's why in the beginning, even finding stability at a higher number is valuable. And then you can start to, you know, kind of crank it down and bring it down a little bit at a time until you're till you're comfortable. So he's telling you, it's not quite right, you don't understand why it's not quite right, quite right. You find my podcast and you start imagining that it's possible. What did you attack first?

Melena 28:42
Um, well, the thing was, I was trying to lose weight at the time, because I had gained a little bit moving away from home. I think in the US, you call it like the freshman 15 or something, that's what they call it. And since I had a lot of lows during the day, I also kept eating extra calories. So I was trying to keep from crashing basically, and I think it's like, I don't know when you start saying it like in the podcast, but there's always this notion of if you never go high, you never go low. Right. So I was just basically starting to try to not get high and of course it ended since I wasn't pen at the time. So basically ended with starting to Pre-Bolus actually because I had been taught Pre-Bolus thing but I never actually use it because waiting 20 minutes for your meal. It's just it's it's a lot of time spent hungry. A lot of times so I can I kind of started implementing that and I had less highs, I had less lows, I started adjusting my Basal, then I kind of I had a point where I found out that with the I was injecting leavener. At the time, I was always going low in the middle of the night. So I tried to lower my dose, I couldn't quite adjust it. So I also made the decision to switch to a pump right around that time, okay. And as soon as I got on a pump with varying Basal rates, and Pre-Bolus ng being even easier, since it was only the push of a button, things started to actually get way more stable. And I started to notice that I had before having stable patches I had felt like, because all those hypose During the day, they were ruining my mood and my grades, I just hadn't realized it. And once I got rid of those and of all the ups and downs, I started actually feeling better. My mental health got better. So I just stuck to it.

Scott Benner 31:18
That's excellent. I'm really happy for you. I'm also very impressed that you figured it out at a younger age while you were in college, too. Is that something not uncommon for you? Are you a particularly mature person for your age?

Melena 31:33
Um, I guess I've kind of been I'm the youngest of five children.

Scott Benner 31:39
Oh, they stopped taking care of you years ago. It's been seven?

Melena 31:46
No, well, I am all my siblings are way older than me. So I was I was kind of like the last one left at home. And my parents were both working full time. So I was kind of on my own a lot, which I think makes you a bit more mature. And I mean, I moved out at 17, which is I don't know if that's common in the US. It's not quite common around here.

Scott Benner 32:14
To go to school, did you leave to go to school? Yes, yeah, that's about the age when it happens here. 17 or 18 When you're done with high school. But usually those kids then go to college and make stupid dumb decisions for two and a half years until the middle of their junior year. And then they look up and they're like, What am I doing? And then maybe they pull it together, you know, when they're 21 or so a little bit or begin to pull it together a little bit. But you made like big? You made big changes to your health care. And then you know, just what happened. It was It talked about it for another second again, I know you said you didn't feel well. How long did it take you to start feeling better? And how remarkable was the change.

Melena 32:59
Um, I think like as the first thing which made me feel better, were not going low at night. Because I I woke up in the middle of the night, I did not have like an real CGM. I had the Libra, which did not have alarm. So I basically I woke up from my low blood sugar I ate, then went back and went back to bed. So I had gotten, I don't know, I think the labor usually just read low, which was not quite accurate. So it must have been like the 50s or 40s. As I well I had that low blood sugar, I had interrupted sleep. Then I got up in the morning, I wish I was usually a bit higher than I should have been. Because as I said the Libra doesn't have alarms and i i woke up hungry in the middle of the night. Yeah. Um, and that's basically how I started my day. And also, like when you're in the library studying and you go low all the time. That's time you spent sitting there trying to read your books in which you basically don't learn anything because your brain can't process it. So that's just time off your day wasted.

Scott Benner 34:25
That's, that's, I think, a burden that people don't recognize right away, and then it has a way of compounding. And before you know it, you're lost. You know, a bad a bad episode turns into a bad morning turns into a bad day, bad week. And then before you know it, it seems normal. And then that's it. You're just you don't even know what's happening anymore. You just yeah, you're just lost in it.

Melena 34:53
Exactly. That's the thing that was my normal. I was not actively thinking about the fact that This was not okay. This was just regular wait to start my day regular way to go studying. I did not think about that this was an issue I could fix myself.

Scott Benner 35:15
I feel bad that everybody or for anybody that ends up feeling that way, like not only is this thing happening, but it's out of my control. That's and I think that it's a sentiment that gets passed around too. So you have to be careful when you're in the community, because you can find a number of people who are all stuck in the same moment. And then they start commiserating with each other. And then if you're watching from the outside, you can accept what they're saying, as the rule. And just oh, I guess this is what diabetes is going to be I'm gonna, I'm gonna get low in the middle the night I'm going to eat food and gain weight and feel badly. And that's what happened to me. And that's that, but I'm glad that you figured out that that didn't have to be the case. Did you share it with your parents? Did you like contact them? And you're like, Hey, I'm doing better? Or do you? Does that not even occur to you,

Melena 36:10
um, diabetes wasn't really a topic with my parents. By the time I moved out. Um, I, I mean, I just didn't really talk about my management. My the reports, which came back from my doctor were like, kind of okay, because as I said, the agencies were okay. And while I was moving out, my diabetes was not a topic that we really talked about. We basically, we hadn't talked about it since I was around 14, when I took up my own management. And I started talking to my parents about this when I was starting the process of getting pump. When I was saying, Hey, look at this, look at these numbers. I'm actually, I'm doing real good. I, maybe I've also kind of had a notion of, look how good I'm doing this. You never did as good as

Scott Benner 37:13
you think maybe they were. Maybe they were upset, knowing that they couldn't do it as well.

Melena 37:21
I don't know. I mean, I'm the one thing I have to say is, when I was a child, my dad tried to manage he gave everything. He just overshot the runway a little bit. And the results were in really good. So as a kid, I had like a onesies and eights around that. So my parents, I think, during my teen years, they always saw that I had like the sixth something. Everyone see, and they thought it was okay. It was bad. And also, I don't think I would have been responsive if they would have tried to talk about my management.

Scott Benner 38:06
Okay. Because why do you think?

Melena 38:11
Um, well, it's kind of been like, before I started managing on my own, like, as I said, all of my siblings are way older. So they used to babysit me. And to this day, they tell stories about how they were constantly getting called by my father. And he never said hello to them on the phone. The first thing he always said to them was, what's your blood sugar?

Scott Benner 38:42
Your dad was worried about you and that made your siblings feel like he didn't care about them?

Melena 38:47
Well, it made them kind of feel like I was the most cared about. I mean, I was also the small child. So that's just part of the issue. But it also kind of made me think that like, my diabetes was the thing about me with caring.

Scott Benner 39:10
I see, too, he didn't talk to you about anything other than that, either.

Melena 39:14
Yeah, gotcha. Not a lot. I mean, he was he was working full time. So basically, he called during the day and he did my nighttime blood sugar checks. That was the most time we spent together during the week. I understand.

Scott Benner 39:31
It's the Yeah, I mean, he probably had no time and the little bit of time he did have he was putting towards you trying to help you be healthy. And yes,

Melena 39:43
I mean, he had the best intentions just like um, I feel like in some parts, the child which actually had the diabetes fell a bit short.

Scott Benner 39:56
You felt you felt like you weren't pulling like doing what you should be doing? thing. What do you mean by that?

Melena 40:03
I mean, like, like my DF diabetes was the first issue on his mind. Every other thing concerning me came second or third, I see

Scott Benner 40:13
where your parents much older. By the time you were, like, how old are they now?

Melena 40:19
Um, my parents are in the mid 60s.

Scott Benner 40:23
Yeah. So my son is a year older than you. And I'm 50. And my wife's like, I don't know how old she was, like 48 or something. I should probably know, I could do the math, but it's not important. So your parents are 15 years older than I am? Yeah. I don't know if I'm young. Compared to my children's age, I think I am a little bit I can remember going to school events for my kid, and the other parents in the room always felt like five years older than me, maybe are a little more than that. But nobody felt 15 years older than me. So your parents just had one good night. 15 years later, huh?

Melena 41:02
Well, all I'm gonna say about this is my eldest sister is 26 years older than me.

Scott Benner 41:09
Oh, my gosh. Your mom get drunk at a wedding when she was like 45 or something like that you think something like that? Maybe?

Melena 41:21
I know the story of how I came to be just private. Leave it at that. Yeah. And alcohol was involved.

Scott Benner 41:34
There we go. I'm imagining a beer stein, and a dress that I've only ever seen on television. And then before you know it, you're over there with your diabetes. And your brothers and sisters are like, where did she even come from? They must have felt like they bought a dog like too late in life. Like, Why didn't mom and dad get this? Not that you you understand? You understand? Yeah. Okay, well, that doesn't sound like an easy way to grow up. But yet, you seem very upbeat and proactive. Why did this not make you sad and resentful?

Melena 42:09
Um, I mean, I think it did for a little while. So as I said, like, I started managing completely on my own at like age 1314. And I started like, I'm just calling it the juice box method around like 18. So in those years, between I, um, I was managing, as I said, but I was not talking about the topic. I wasn't talking about diabetes with my parents. As I said, I tried to think about my management as little as possible. So I barely even ever adjusted like my Basal doses, even though I was still growing. Um, so I think it kind of kind of made me not resentful towards like my parents. It made me resentful towards the disease. So yeah, I was, I was just managing, I wasn't thinking about it. And I sometimes find myself now that I know all the things I know now, looking back at those times, and thinking like, how did I even survive this?

Scott Benner 43:36
Vicki? Got lucky a couple of times?

Melena 43:40
I don't know. I think so. Yeah, um, I had, like, issues with eating, I would call it like something going in the direction of like binge eating, where I would just put in 30 units, open the kitchen cupboard and eat whatever I could find. And so that 30 units was based on nothing. And I think all of those things that could have gone wrong,

Scott Benner 44:13
and Okay. Could have just not been hungry at some point and stopped eating and had way too much insulin or just overshot. It definitely talked about that a little bit. Is that a? Is that a feeling of? I don't want to think about having diabetes, what I eat makes me think about diabetes. So I will throw in so much insulin that I can eat with abandon, and then I'll get to pretend for a little while I don't have it, or is that is that not what was happening?

Melena 44:45
Well, I think what you're implying, that's way too conscious. I wasn't thinking about the diabetes at all. thing was, I of course, with with my parents always trying to manage me i I also got into fights with them regarding like, eating candy and stuff when I was younger I think every diabetic child does at some point. And so when I was like, all the I could buy my own food, I had complete control of what I ate. And I just wanted to indulge, so the diabetes was like, not the important part about it was actually the food. Like, I just wanted to have all these these things, and whatever happened to the disease didn't matter at that point.

Scott Benner 45:38
Is there any other autoimmune issues with you or your anyone in your family?

Melena 45:44
Um, with me currently, no. My family's got issues with hypothyroidism.

Scott Benner 45:52
Oh, and you've gotten away from it somehow.

Melena 45:55
I've gotten away from it so far. Yeah. Interesting. Good

Scott Benner 45:58
for you. Brothers and sisters, moms and dads. It spread everywhere.

Melena 46:04
I own it's coming from my mom's side kind of guessing. Gotcha. Yeah, so neither of my parents actually do but it's been on my mom's side of the family. And one of my sisters and one of our brothers both have it. So. Yeah, gotcha. Well, we're guessing it's, it's one side.

Scott Benner 46:24
I see. Okay. You did you decide at some point. You kept saying pump, but I don't know, what pumps are available in Germany?

Melena 46:35
Um, well, I mean, most of the pumps which are available in the US are and actually some more because some European fact manufacturers are. All around the pump I got when I was getting on a pump was actually tubeless. Um, it was it wasn't the Omnipod

Scott Benner 46:58
sorry. No, you have to be sorry with it like gipsa med or something like that? Or is that what it's called?

Melena 47:05
The calm company was called metronome. I think it still exists, but the pump has been pulled from the market.

Scott Benner 47:17
Hmm. I'm trying to find it. I'm not having a lot of luck. Let's see.

Melena 47:29
I think it's spelled m e di, T. Are you?

Scott Benner 47:36
Alright, I might have it. Oh, was it like green and white?

Melena 47:45
Yes, exactly. Two parts.

Scott Benner 47:48
Interesting. Look at that. How long did you have that for?

Melena 47:52
Only a year.

Scott Benner 47:55
The company disappeared

Melena 47:57
or, you know, the company had a, they lost a legal battle here in Germany and they had to pull it from the German market. So I had to get another pump and also, but by the time I had been on a pump for a year, I was trying to get into looping so I was kind of happy. I got to choose a new pump.

Scott Benner 48:23
Did you loop with Omni pod or with Medtronic? Neither. Which one did you use?

Melena 48:30
I'm using a Donna RS

Scott Benner 48:33
look at you like you live on a different planet spelling for me.

Melena 48:39
As Dana like the first name, okay. And the letters are S

Scott Benner 48:49
Oh, it looks a lot like oh, I say. Yeah. Oh, it's available like in North Korea. Or excuse me, excuse me. I'm misreading. It's a Korean pump. It's a Korean Tom Victorian pump. Yeah. Oh, look at that. It's cool. I've never seen that one before. Dana. And so you're using that to loop with? Exactly. Are you using the same loop algorithm I'm using are using a different one.

Melena 49:15
I'm using the Android version.

Scott Benner 49:19
Android version. Okay. Yeah. What's your experience?

Melena 49:25
Um, I think loop is kind of fascinating. I think I wrote it in my email. I'm on the faster version of human clock. So I'm Jeff insulin. And I'm basically I'm using loop without manually giving bonuses or entering carbs as long as the total amount of carbs is below 50.

Scott Benner 49:59
Say that Again, for me, I'm sorry.

Melena 50:03
I'm not manually Bolus saying or entering carbs, as long as like the total amount of carbs in the meal is below 50.

Scott Benner 50:11
So you just are you telling it you're eating or it just it sees and handles it.

Melena 50:17
I'm telling it to a lowered target blood sugar to 72 for, I think two hours usually. And, well, I don't actually know what the algorithm per se us, but there is some kind of programming going on. So the corrections get stronger. And it usually catches up to all of the carbs.

Scott Benner 50:44
That's kind of brilliant. That's a different way to manipulate it, who taught you that? I

Melena 50:49
mean, the internet, the internet. Basically, there are a lot of like people working on Android loop in Germany. And of course, there's a Facebook group and then website where they talk about their new ideas. And when language F became available, in Germany, lots of people were like thinking, well, this insulin is so fast, maybe if we're not eating the most sugary stuff, we can get this to a like, closed, closed mode loop. And they started trying, and it was just kind of, I don't know, it was kind of following as people were trying, like to eat different meals and seeing what the original algorithm did that with it with a fast acting, ultra fast acting insulin inside. And once enough people I had posted the results, and they were looking good that just, I don't know, I kind of started trying it. And I think like the limit of 50 carbs kind of varies between people. So I say I need to do a manual Bolus, if I'm exceeding 50 carbs. From some people, it's more for some people, it's less Gotcha. It also does, of course, not work with every kind of food, like the time it takes for a Dexcom to measure the interstitial fluid would be way too long for something like Syrah.

Scott Benner 52:31
Okay, what I'm seeing here about that insulin, I was poking around on the internet a little bit, it seems like if you're a person who already Pre-Bolus is with a different insulin, you're not going to see a big difference with this. But that it might eliminate your need for such a long Pre-Bolus. But you're but you're saying you see it right around 50 carbs, if you go over 50 carbs, it's not fast enough to catch up. Even though you're setting that lower target.

Melena 53:01
It's not fast now to catch up. Just using loop. Yeah,

Scott Benner 53:05
gotcha. Right. But but still just setting the target lower is kind of brilliant. It's almost the it's the algorithm version of setting a Temp Basal increase overtop of a meal. Like you're adding you're adding extra insulin or you're adding extra emphasis, you're telling the loop, like be more aggressive, I don't want to be I don't know what what is your usual target for loop?

Melena 53:29
I think it's like 90 to 85.

Scott Benner 53:33
And then instead you go to eat, you just tell it tried to make me 72 How long before you eat? How long before you eat, you have to tell it that.

Melena 53:43
Um, I usually put in the target like half an hour before you do

Scott Benner 53:48
your Pre-Bolus thing with the target instead of Pre-Bolus thing with insulin, and it's taking care of it's taking care of putting in the insulin because even if you're like, like, if you're 90 At that moment, it's going to immediately get more aggressive trying to get you to 72.

Melena 54:01
Exactly, but the difference between like setting the target and doing a Pre-Bolus is if I don't manage to eat 30 minutes later, for example, in a restaurant or something. Nothing's going to happen below 70

Scott Benner 54:18
It's still only shooting for 70. Exactly. Yeah, that makes sense. I saw today Artem was at school today. I have no idea what happened. But her blood sugar was just chugging along in the 80s. It had been like that for like, eight hours. And she didn't need anything. But I don't know what happened. But she suddenly went to an arrow straight up. And I think she got to like 130 was still an up arrow. And I looked and the algorithm was like, was like hitting her with insulin it was making like so I use the version of loop that allows bolusing and like it was given it was Bolus near like a unit and a half at a time that it wait a little longer and gave her more. And I'm actually looking at it now because I never investigated it. But you know, she was while she was 74. And then suddenly 8297 115 129, like over a half an hour, but she never got above 134 and 850. An hour later, she was 108. And an hour and a half later, she was 85. It just is. I don't know what happened to her. I don't know why that happened. But just imagine if that happened on a regular pump, or with MDI, like, who knows where her blood sugar would have stopped? Probably, I'm gonna guess like, 240 Maybe. So probably these algorithms are crazy. Cool. I love him. Really, really.

Melena 55:57
Now imagine the reason her blood sugar started to climb was was something she'd eaten. And Luke just basically handled that on its own. That's kind of what I'm going with. Yeah,

Scott Benner 56:08
no, I've seen I've seen like us, like, Forget insulin, you know, completely. And it'll still hold her. You know, unless it's something crazy, like you said, like cereal or something, bananas, but I meant bananas like crazy, not bananas, like a banana is something like that. Still, it can stop or before, like 200, and at least gives you time to react to it and go, Oh, God, we didn't put it inside and fix it. You know? It's really cool. Where did you hear about looping from?

Melena 56:41
Um, so I'm actually I think the first kind of contact I had with Luke was on the podcast when you started about on starting moving, um, and I just kind of thought like, first I thought it was like an iOS thing. And I'm an Android user. I'm not using any Apple device besides airports.

Scott Benner 57:09
You're very upset at Apple, we get talking about that later. That's okay.

Melena 57:13
And then I kind of thought, well, it must be in mostly American thing, because I saw all of these people using like, the old pertronic pumps. And then I kind of started looking around on like Facebook, for German groups, and what they were saying. And I found like the German loop groups and the instruct instructions to build loop. They're also available in German. So I knew there must be people around here doing that. And so yeah, I kind of got into that through mostly Facebook.

Scott Benner 57:54
It's amazing that Facebook can be valuable. Yeah, actually. That is really, it's really terrific. Yeah, and it made me happy because I think there are people inside of like, the original loop core of people who I don't think they like me very much. And they, I got your loop into Germany. So you couldn't do that. So there you go. That's all I just wanted to say that real quick. I, I don't know what the problem is those people who have problems, but I love that thing. And I'm happy to like sing its praises. And I don't know what their issue is. I think maybe I I might have made it pretty popular by being on the podcast. And who knows, I'd be I'd be guessing. Bullying if I if I had to guess and I don't want to. I don't want to guess I could be completely wrong. I don't like to pretend I know how people feel. I just hear stories. And they hurt my feelings. That's all. That's all. You've hurt my feeling is I'm gonna lash out if we can consider this that. So how long have you been doing that now?

Melena 59:02
Um, I think I started a little bit over a year ago with loop like in general. And not really manually Bolus saying like in February or March of this year.

Scott Benner 59:21
I'm gonna try that by the way. I seriously am like the next time I can try something I'd be like, let's set a temporary target right and see how that goes. That's really cool. I love how much autonomy the The program gives you, you know how you're really able to make, I mean, all these all the other ones from companies just, I'm going to imagine are not going to give you that much freedom to be changing settings like that. But it's cool. It gives you a different way to think about the insulin which I think ends up being the most important thing is that because you could accomplish that with a regular pump if you wanted to. Yeah, you could do a Temp Basal increase a half an hour before you eat Make it significant enough that it would use enough insulin to cover those carbs. Yeah, you can't, there's no reason why you couldn't do that. And like you said, as long as we're not too harsh or too much in quantity, it should be able to stay ahead of it. I'm thinking it through while while you're talking.

Melena 1:00:17
Yeah. But there's also like, there's not much thought process going into it. Like if I, if I had to set a manual basil, I have to set that up, then it probably would not be enough to cover a meal. So I'd have to build us. And with using loop to cover meals is just one temporary target set, like around 30 minutes, doesn't matter if it's 20 Doesn't matter if it's 40. And you just start eating and in the best and, honestly, in the regular case, for me, I don't have to think about a meal another time.

Scott Benner 1:00:58
Well, what do you what kind of eating Do you normally do? Like, what are you eating?

Melena 1:01:04
Um, I, I'd say I eat quite quite regular food. So I do have some of my high carb meals. But as I said, I'm putting in a little bit of a bonus for those because like, most Italian food or anything like that won't be covered entirely. And, well, I try to stay around like those 40 grams of carbs at a meal. If I'm like working or doing something where I don't want to spend time looking at my phone and looking at the numbers I'm trying to keep with like the 50 gram goal. But overall, I'd say I eat a bread pretty regular diet.

Scott Benner 1:01:52
Okay. vegetables, bread, meat, cheese, except Yes,

Melena 1:01:56
yes. Yes.

Scott Benner 1:02:00
Excellent. That's exciting. That must be incredibly exciting for you. Honestly, right, like, after how everything's been for so many years, and how much effort you had to put into it. And when you were guessing, and, and going through those, those other issues? Is that, um, I let me ask the question a different way, if someone came along and took it from you, what would it mean, if a Health Authority stop loop from being available or something like that? Like, what would you? How would that impact you?

Melena 1:02:30
Um, overall, I don't think it would like impact, my blood sugar's a lot, maybe would even make them a bit better. Because if I were to manage entirely manually, again, most of those small food spikes which need to happen in order for you to react would not happen. But overall, I think there would be a period spanning some months of real intense, thinking about things once again, and trying to figure out and maybe I would have a bit less, more bit less variety in the kind of food I ate, just because trying to keep things easier. And I think if someone stopped my loop right now, I would manage but it diabetes would become a way bigger part of my daily life once more. And yeah, just I don't want to think about people stuffing.

Scott Benner 1:03:39
I'm happy that you share that though. Because that just I don't know, I'm interested in, in what what effects it would have. So you're saying you know, went off about it, you'd be able to pull it together and manage your blood sugars, but in it would take time away from your life, it would change your relationship with food. And those things are not positive. Right? Exactly. Yeah. Okay. I could

Melena 1:04:06
live without it. I just wouldn't want to.

Scott Benner 1:04:09
I understand. Now I worry about sometimes I worry that, you know, one day the FDA is just gonna be like, No, can't do that. And they wouldn't be able to. I don't see how they could stop the algorithm from being available right online. So then that would mean they'd have to pressure the hardware manufacturers do not I mean, if they were looking for a way to put a stop to it, they couldn't stop the sharing of the algorithm. They'd have to go after the companies. I don't know how they would do that. Or if they would, saying that's what I want.

Melena 1:04:44
I'm kind of thinking as you say that, like, in the US, you can only use like, old Omni pots and old latronnik pumps to do right.

Scott Benner 1:04:57
Yeah, I think so. Yeah, the Omni pod they arrows, pods work. And yeah, there's the Medtronic i. And then there's another version of like an algorithm that I'm not as familiar with. I'm not sure what worked for them. But I think it's Medtronic, for sure. And there's also not many pumps left here. There's metrics.

Melena 1:05:15
That's what I was thinking. So like, Isn't kind of the hardware running out.

Scott Benner 1:05:22
Medtronic on the pod, and then there's tandem, but you can't loop with tandem. So yeah, I just I don't know, like I'm trying to imagine. I mean, it's being, as far as I can tell, so far, nobody's making a problem about it. But it's just it's one of the things that always sticks in the back of my head, like, we've, we're using this thing. And you know, it's tenuous, right, it's being managed by people online, sometimes they make additions and subtractions to it, and they, you know, they fix it, or whatever that means. And then there's, you know, the companies that make products, and this isn't how they mean for them to be used. And so far, nothing has come of that. But that's the part I worry about. Anyway, I like worrying about things. That's one of the that's one of the things that pops into my head. But I love it, I hope nobody touches it, they should all just leave it the hell alone. Let you be

Melena 1:06:17
Sorry, I interrupted you.

Scott Benner 1:06:19
I want them to let you be happy.

Melena 1:06:23
Well, um, I think I'm gonna stay happy cuz the company might pump us from, um, they released a new model this year, which is has already been integrated into Android loop. So I should be safe. Like for the next six or six to seven years, hardware wise.

Scott Benner 1:06:46
I can remember at the beginning of all this, for people were scavenging old pumps that were able to be looped, and they were buying them online from people and people were finding them in drawers and giving them away and stuff. And I don't want it to come back to that. I think this is a pretty, pretty fair balance. So and yeah, and then you've got your aquarium pump. So you're all set?

Melena 1:07:12
Well, I sometimes find myself thinking whenever I see one of those posts, like, Hey, I found an old Medtronic in a drawer from my cousin or something. Like how many of these old Medtronic pumps have been around before they got pulled? Yeah. seems to never end.

Scott Benner 1:07:32
I know, there's always somebody that finds one somewhere. So pretty fascinating. I think. If you came here, you know, you'd find find some on the pods and boxes in a couple of different places. So it's hilarious. Is there anything that we haven't talked about that you want to talk about?

Melena 1:07:51
Um, I don't think so. Yeah, I think I'm good.

Scott Benner 1:07:58
Did you have a good time? Yeah, I did. Um, is it not strange for you that I'm like, more than twice as old as you are? That doesn't matter to you?

Melena 1:08:09
No, actually, like the strangest feeling is like hearing your talk and hearing your voice and kind of getting it into my head that I'm supposed to respond. Because I'm so used to hearing your talk. And I'm like, okay, he's talking. What? Why is that why now is oh, I shouldn't be talking now.

Scott Benner 1:08:30
I think as long as you don't start answering your headphones, when I'm not really with you, I think that'll be fine. I do I do understand that I understand it, because I've heard it from a number of people that they'll say like, I'll, we'll get done. And I'll be like, how was that for you? And they're like, it was very strange to hear you talking and that I had to respond. And I was like, okay, so I try to make people comfortable. You seem like you're comfortable. Are you up? I am very cool,

Melena 1:08:55
though. I mean, I was kind of worried. This is my second language after all. Um, but I think I've expressed myself quite well. So I didn't articulate myself quite quite well.

Scott Benner 1:09:10
I thought you did. And I didn't hear you. Like, there was one time where you said like, I have to think about how I want to say this. But other than that, like, I didn't think you had any thought to translation issues. I thought you did. Good. Thank you. I've spoken to a lot of people who this isn't their English isn't their first language. And that's the, that's what I've learned mostly is that they spend time, like, we don't always have the same words. And so you have to rephrase things or say them differently, so that they mean something similar. And you can hear people get caught up once in a while trying to find it. And I don't know what's happening this week. But I've recorded with a guy yesterday I recorded with a Frenchman. And today you I think I'm making my way through Europe this week.

Melena 1:09:55
So well. Maybe someone from the Netherlands be next,

Scott Benner 1:10:00
it would be nice if people would reach out. I'll tell you, let me tell you where the podcast is the most popular like top 10. us first, then Canada, then Australia, and Australia and Canada sometimes go back and forth. Like sometimes the downloads in Australia will be Canada, vice versa. Then it's United Kingdom, Germany, New Zealand, Ireland, Sweden, Belgium and Norway. And I'm always interested that it's never like, Isn't Norway, one of the places where like every other person has type one diabetes? Is that what I'm thinking of Hold on a second, Norway? Type One, there's a place. Oh, there's a place over there. Because I don't really understand the map that well, where like, type one diabetes is just in abundance. And yet those people haven't found the podcast yet. I might have to go over there and do a tour, I'm going to find out exactly where that is, and stand in the center of town and talk about Basal insulin until people start paying attention or something like that.

Melena 1:11:00
Doing some on site advertising.

Scott Benner 1:11:02
Yeah, right, exactly. I'll get out ahead of it. Hey, when are you done College? Now? How much longer do

Melena 1:11:07
you have? Um, I'll be done in the spring?

Scott Benner 1:11:11
Oh, that's excellent. And do you have a job to jump into? Or is that what you're trying to figure out now?

Melena 1:11:16
Um, that's kind of what I'm trying to figure out. Now. If I'm like, I'll be done with my bachelor's in spring. And currently, I'm figuring out whether I want to work afterwards or if I'm going to start my masters.

Scott Benner 1:11:32
Okay. All right. Are you leaning in one way or the other?

Melena 1:11:35
I'm currently I'm thinking about keeping, keeping on studying. So doing my masters.

Scott Benner 1:11:42
Gotcha. Well, you're gonna figure out how people think and help them. That's your goal.

Melena 1:11:47
Well, kind of Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:11:49
Yeah. You're not gonna help anybody? Nobody can?

Melena 1:11:54
Probably not.

Scott Benner 1:11:57
But I guess the endeavor and the value is the trying, right, like trying to trying to get people to see things that they don't see.

Melena 1:12:06
Yeah, I think I think the one thing you can help people with is making them aware of the way they think and where there might be mistakes. I mean, that's kind of what you're doing. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. You're talking to people about how they think about their diabetes management and then trying to find their mistakes and how they think about it, why their results don't match with their effort they put in?

Scott Benner 1:12:34
Molina, you really understand me on a different level? Don't you? Go ahead. You do, don't you? You see what I'm doing, don't you? I kind of do you think everybody knows?

Melena 1:12:49
I think most people would listen to

Scott Benner 1:12:52
I'm not trying to hide it. I just yeah, I'm I'm, I'm definitely doing that. I am. I am. Absolutely. I think that it's unfair to put people into a situation like this, and then ask them to not only figure out the situation, but figure out the way that their brain works and overcome the things that are stopping them that you can't, I mean, by the time we fix that, it'll be too late, you know, so I put things out there in a way where that becomes, I don't know how I'm gonna put it, where the information about handling your diabetes becomes the thing you're willing to vote for, you know what I mean? So you hear it, and you hear people's real honest lives with it, you can believe that it works. It gets mirrored through my personal experiences, that should be enough to get somebody to be interested, then they can kind of put it together in ways that worked for them, give it a shot, see it work, believing it, keep going that eventually that turns into like you said, you know, not much effort to keep blood sugar's where you want. And then that's it, then I'm done with you. And you can keep listening for the stories. And, and then we'll get somebody new again. But I didn't know you just sound like you're inside of my head while you're talking. You're freaking me out.

Melena 1:14:17
Um, well, I don't know, I wasn't used to getting a compliment. I mean, you were basically complimenting yourself, but complimented me.

Scott Benner 1:14:29
You have the whole thing, right? This is amazing. You really do get me. No, you just, I say it all the time in a different way. Like you agree with me. So I like you.

Melena 1:14:46
Well, I mean, as I've said previously, people don't even need to like you to understand your ideas

Scott Benner 1:14:54
matter. And there are some people like that, by the way, and I've received their emails and it's fine with me. Don't worry. I I just got I just got one recently again. Alright, we'll end with this. Let me find it for you hold on a second crack. crack me up, please, I don't want a bunch of these though you'll kill me inside. But this one, if I get it once in a while it's okay. Let's see if I can find it. Looking at reviews,

Melena 1:15:19
but I remember like you talking about this while I was still kind of like hate listening, that there's an episode where you say like, Oh, I get those people who absolutely hate me once in a while they send the emails that will say like, Well, no, I'm not sending one if I'm just one of many.

Scott Benner 1:15:40
hosts can talk a lot about himself versus interviewing guests, but can have great content. I love that one. There's one back a couple of years ago that basically just says I don't like that guy at all. But it's a really good podcast and my blood sugar's are better. And that I'm laughing about it. But not everybody can like me. But I'm happy that the podcast is valuable enough that even if I'm not somebody who you would choose to listen to for your entertainment, it's still worth listening to. Like, I think that's great. All right, because I can't, I mean, try to imagine if I tried to be somebody who everyone would like, that would be irritating because it wouldn't be real. I would just basically say nothing, have no opinions, and then blurt out stuff about diabetes, and you wouldn't listen to that. So yeah, I know. Everybody doesn't like me. It's okay. I'm okay with it. Well, I just don't want everybody

Melena 1:16:41
know, like you. I've listened to like, not all of the episodes, but like, 500.

Scott Benner 1:16:47
You've listened to like, 500. Thank you. Yeah.

Melena 1:16:50
And I mean, I'm not talking to you directly. So

Scott Benner 1:16:54
I really do. Yeah, okay. So tell people. You love me now. Right? Well, let's put it this on the fly. Let's put a million let's be more fair, you, me and your data in a robot, the robot starts to sink. We gotta throw someone off. So that the robot doesn't think who leaves me your dad. You but I love the pause. You were always gonna say me, but I love how long you paused. I appreciate that very much. Thank you. All right.

Melena 1:17:28
That's an experienced sailor. I'd like to have on a boat.

Scott Benner 1:17:34
Plus, you could just let them listen to the podcast if you need his help. So I've done it enough now. I mean, it's all here. Right? Molina like Pete. People. You listen. It gets easier, right? It does. Yeah. Oh, that's sweet. I appreciate it. And I appreciate you understanding me and laughing along with me too. I really, I had a great time talking to you. And I'm really pleased that you came on I thank you for taking the time. I know it's later in the evening where you are and you must be hungry and trying to get your evening going. So thank you very much. That's okay. Thank you for having me on. A huge thank you to one of today's sponsors, G voc glucagon. Find out more about Chivo Capo pen at G Vogue glucagon.com forward slash juicebox. you spell that GVOKEGLUC AG o n.com. Forward slash juice box. I'm also going to thank Dexcom and remind you to check out the Dexcom g six@dexcom.com. Forward slash juice box. And last but not least, Molina for coming on and hate sharing her story. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.