#637 Running From Cows

February 28, 2022Scott Benner

Anna from episode ten has returned!

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 637 of the Juicebox Podcast.

On April 7 2015, episode 10 of the Juicebox Podcast went up. And it was a conversation with a woman named Anna. Anna was the mom of a small child with type one diabetes. And today, some seven years later, she is back on the podcast to check in. Please remember, while you're listening that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan, or becoming bold with insulin. Also, I want to tell you that on the day this was recorded about a block from my home, someone was grinding a stump. And it made an horrible noise. And it came in on my microphone at times. It's not throughout the whole episode. But there'll be moments when you hear me talk and there'll be this hum behind me. It's not overwhelming. And it's only when my microphone is open. So whenever Anna's talking, or I just realized, now you can make fun of me in your head for talking so much. But whenever I'm not talking, you won't hear it at all. And it's not distracting. It's just something I'm aware of. And I'm apologizing for it now, because I wish I could have done something about it. This show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries. G voc hypo Penn. Find out more at G voc glucagon.com. Forward slash juicebox.

Anna 1:55
Well, I'm Anna, and I'm mom of Teddy, who we spoke about maybe seven or eight years ago, I should have I should have checked that. But he was diagnosed with diabetes in 2012. So I've always felt like he was a little bit behind what Arden was experiencing. And obviously following you was just amazing, because I could see how well you were doing. And that gave me so much encouragement with situation when Teddy was diagnosed. So yeah, it's really good to catch up, you know, when he's, he's 13 or so.

Scott Benner 2:39
Okay, so I'm looking now. And this is really astonishing. I haven't really done this a lot. You're maybe like the second or third recording. I've done like catching up with people who were on the show at one point. But you were on episode 10

Anna 2:57
Oh, wow. That I'm like how many you've done? No,

Scott Benner 3:01
there. There are 540 of them up right now. Wow. And I mean, yours might end up being like 600 like or something like that, by the way, they all go up. I remember. So let's see how funny it is that they all blend together a little bit for me now. I remember the management of making your episode because I was so new at it that I didn't like I didn't know what I was doing yet. So just setting them up putting them online took forever. I'm I'm I think this is gonna be a lot of fun. So I'm really happy that that you reached out what made you reach out?

Anna 3:44
Um, well, I I started listening to your podcasts again, having had a break. And really just because I didn't have the right time to sit down and listen. And, and I started listening again because well through lockdown, obviously more time and through COVID. So, and I thought, oh god, you're still saying stuff that is totally interesting. And I can learn from and I was just really gobsmacked at how you could still be saying things that were so different to what anyone around me says in you know, in when we talk about diabetes in this country, so it sort of really fueled me to think gorgey you did you know you you really made a difference to our lives at the beginning. And it's just great. You're carrying on doing it for so many other people now.

Scott Benner 4:48
Thank you. You. Your episode went up April 7 2015. And we are recording today on the seventh of September 2020 I have to maybe maybe I have to echo your gobs Makary because I don't know that I thought the podcast was still gonna be going now, either. And I figured some things out since then. So I'm glad it was there for you when you went back to it. So let's remind people a tiny bit and then we'll we'll jump forward. Teddy was how old when he was diagnosed? Three. And how old is he now? 13. Hold on a second. Well, he was like, seven when we spoke the first time.

Anna 5:35
Yes, six or seven. I'm looking now. Yeah. Yeah, I think it still felt really new. And we were still on the the injections at that point. And I think because we I knew from listening to you that I wanted only posts. And you just couldn't get it here then. Like he just couldn't. And so I Yeah, it was it was before he had a pump.

Scott Benner 6:06
How long has he had a pod now? It's hard, isn't

Anna 6:16
it? It's almost six years, I think. Yeah. Probably quite soon after I spoke to you last time. Yeah. Yeah, cuz? Um, yeah. Six years. Like I could be wrong. He may be already had one when I spoke to you.

Scott Benner 6:32
Not sure. If it's really funny. How is he using the CGM?

Anna 6:38
Yeah, he's got Dexcom. And so he's on the GS six. And both those things when you're back from you, and both those things were here in the UK later than available for you guys. And I had to find a hospital that I knew would be able to get funding for us to have those things. So we moved moved hospitals. And yeah.

Scott Benner 7:06
It's amazing. I'm very happy that you're back. What was it? Did it? What's my question? Was being on a podcast back then that basically, I mean, it wasn't being listened to the way it is now. Like, for instance, one day in the future, I'm going to put this episode up. And in the first three hours that it's live on the internet. It'll get downloaded more than your previous episode was downloaded probably in a year. Yeah, it was there anything that came from being on the podcast? Did anyone say I knew that was you? Would you just make you feel good to tell your story to other people? Like what was the outcome of doing it the first time

Anna 7:48
I think it made me feel something I already felt that actually, what I was thinking about Taiwan was so completely not shared by anyone in the community in this country. And I felt like I was part of a special gang. Like across the sea. So it felt special. And it fell I just, I just I just felt how do we not know these things? How does the hospitals not push these things? And why is this stuff not available? Why is the why is this dialogue not here about having aiming for normal blood sugar levels? And so yeah, I made me feel like I was part of another game.

Scott Benner 8:44
Because you would seen those things right? Like you were having those thoughts, but there was just nowhere to anchor them to

Anna 8:52
know and at the point when I spoke to you, I was feeling quite dying. Because the way I was dealing with it was by finger pricking, like sometimes 20 plus times every 24 hours. And I knew that was the only way that I could see what was happening. And, and I knew it wasn't good. Wasn't great for Teddy, but in one way, it was great for Teddy because it meant we had good management. And I was being told off for using too. Too many test strips and I was getting told off all the time by the doctors and I just stuck to it. And I said I even said it some point we're going to have a device that does all this. For us we won't need to finger prick because I'd heard about Dexcom probably through you and the consultant said that will never happen. And it just it seemed crazy to me that

Scott Benner 9:55
boundless hope from you. When you say that They were giving you trouble. Were they giving you trouble for poking him so much or for using the test strips up?

Anna 10:07
Well, firstly, it was a shame for his fingers. They kept saying and I said, Well, actually, he doesn't really mind. He doesn't I mean, he didn't he didn't like the injections one bit, but fingerprints, you know, once your fingers have been roughed up like that I don't, you know, he didn't mind he really didn't mind. And it was far better for him than having to have hypu treatment or, you know, correction injections and all the rest. So, but also financially, because we get funded by the NHS, they, they kept telling me it was costing too much money. So I was going through them too quickly.

Scott Benner 10:42
But were you having better outcomes than they were accustomed to seeing?

Anna 10:48
Definitely, yeah, we I mean, we were always told, we actually left, you wouldn't be surprised. But we left that hospital when that doctor told me that it would never happen that that something would replace fingerprick. And but we he was having better outcomes than anyone else in that any other child in that hospital. And the case is the same today in the hospital, we're in that he's always we're always praised about how we're sort of top in terms of management. And I, you know, that just makes me feel a bit sort of disappointed in the system, because you think, well, we should all be doing this. And so anyway,

Scott Benner 11:32
it's kind of confounding, isn't it that you're having a an outcome that's so much different than everyone else's? And instead of them saying to you, Hey, what are you doing? Maybe we should be doing this? They're like, You have to stop doing this. You know, like, Why? Why fight against? I don't know, it's such an interesting thing that they would just fight against that idea instead of embracing it, or at least trying to figure out why it's working.

Anna 12:02
Yeah, I think they've moved on. I think they have moved on a bit. No, they have. And so obviously, different consultants, some are going to be more forward thinking some are going to embrace the technology more, but there's a whole load of sort of old school ones that really just don't like change, and they like to do, you know, they still think you should eat meals at the same time a day, you should only test if you're testing once every two hours. And they still seem to think that that works. And which is something I've always had to say it just doesn't doesn't work.

Scott Benner 12:36
At least not as well as what you're doing. You know, so, no, did you find the blog? Were you reading while you were reading my blog?

Anna 12:47
Was that before the podcast then? Maybe? Yeah, yeah. Yeah,

Scott Benner 12:51
it would have to be because I mean, honestly, if you were on an April, that means I recorded you soon before that March. And the podcast only began in January. So I mean, I'd be surprised if you heard one of the first episodes in England. And yeah, and then reached out. That's a it's so funny. I can't remember the details of it, really. But I remember I

Anna 13:16
was I was definitely reading the blog. Okay.

Scott Benner 13:19
You know, back when you were on, it was easy to like, name the episodes because I was just like, this one will be called Teddy's mom and I have to be more. I have to be more agile now. Because I'm starting to the other day, I thought to name something. And I typed it into the search bar for the episodes. And I already used that title for something. And I was like, Oh, you have to get a little more thoughtful about this. So

Anna 13:48
how is the creative things in it? Yeah, well, you just have to tip it thing

Scott Benner 13:52
I get yelled at, you know, speaking of getting told off like I People tell me all the time, your titles don't tell me what the episodes are about. And I always think I don't know what the episodes are about. I recorded them and they seem like we talked about, you know, 20 different things. I can't just pick one of them and tell you you know, the the show's about this today, you know, it might end up being about a bunch of things. So I don't know, I think I'm doing okay, but every once in a while I get somebody comes after me for it. Well, how is Teddy doing? Like, what's his life like now compared to back then?

Anna 14:26
Oh, he's great. He's just he's, we were just we just walking the dog before this there because he goes back to school tomorrow after the summer holidays. And we're just sort of chatting about the plan for school what he's going to do with this with this type one and how he's going to manage it and he's just so mature and positive and totally understands what he's doing. And I don't know I think it's made him He's so well organized. It's unbelievable. And so yeah, I feel that, you know, diabetes for him now type one is a good, positive thing in his life because he, you know, he owns it and he's easy. He doesn't, it doesn't get in the way.

Scott Benner 15:22
What do you think, led him to be that way? I mean, he correct me if I'm wrong. Are you married?

Anna 15:30
No, no, we're not married. But we've been together for 25 years, I think. But no, we are not married. But I mean, me and Tom live together, and we've got three kids,

Scott Benner 15:42
okay to get so, so. Okay, so you're you guys are together. And there are two, Teddy is were in the three kids. So they're older metal? He's the middle. Okay. Any other autoimmune stuff pop up with it. Other kids? No, nothing. Gotcha. So I'm saying like, what do you think? Like, how does he do you think he was always kind of a mature kid? Or do you think the diabetes has helped him with that?

Anna 16:11
I think the diabetes has helped him and because I tell he's never rebelled against it. He's never pushed against it. He's always understood it and accepted it and wanted, what we want for him to be dispatched and understood why that means to good management, and so on, I think is the diabetes. I mean, who knows there's certain things that are in his genes and certain things that are, you know, but he's I think it's made him extra special anyway,

Scott Benner 16:48
huh? Yeah. And I didn't mean that I like the diabetes turns you into a better person. I just mean, like the, the work that you have to do and the concern and consideration that they may be kind of hone you a little bit make you a little more mature. At a lower lesser age, maybe I don't know, like because Arden's the same way. She's super, she's super like, I don't know, even had like a talk about it, I guess, like, you could leave Arden alone, Arden will be okay. You know what I mean? Like, she takes care of things, she's thoughtful about her safety and, and that sort of stuff, things like that, that I don't even know that my son is at an older age. I think she's just accustomed to thinking about herself. And, and understanding impacts of things that are kind of outside of her control.

Anna 17:43
Yeah, I think also making quite thoughtful about other people's. So suppose one of the things that really troubles them is he is quite self conscious, too. He's, and he knows that we totally respect that as well. So we I've never wanted to push pushes diabetes, you know, out there to be visible. And that he's I don't know, he's just very sensitive, but in a very good way. So he's quite sensitive about other people and how they might feel about certain things. So I'm sure that's the diabetes. I mean, you have to put up with quite a few disappointments in life, don't you when you're dying? Yeah, although you can do anything. There are times when you just, you know, it's like, no, you can't have another bit of cake. And no, you can't trampoline for another hour at the moment. And you sort of, you have to just accept that. And I think that's really good life skill, because there's so many things in life that, you know, you could let sort of flatten you. But if you're resilient in that way and think cool, it doesn't actually matter, then it's such a good skill for life.

Scott Benner 19:01
Yeah. Well, I think to in a, in a more digital age, there's an idea that everything you want is going to be there for you immediately. You know, it's hard not to oh, we were in a movie theater. Two days ago, and during the movie, a person in front of me pulled out their phone to read an article about the movie. And I just did fried my brain. I thought just watch the movie. And then you'll see what's gonna happen. Like, why are you reading about it? Like, like, are you so? Are you so accustomed to having the answer immediately that you can't sit in this movie to get the answer? You know, it was just a very, very odd thing. And I take your point like about him, just sometimes needing to be accepting and moving on. I think that's a hell of a life skill. We all need, honestly that everything can always go our way and definitely won't. Well, that's interesting. It really is. Um, yeah. How long has he been? Like you said he's heading back to school after summer break. But had he been in school prior to that? Or how's school been going there?

Anna 20:20
Yeah, I can't I can't really remember how much time they've been at school. It's been so weird, hasn't it, but they did go back after Christmas, and we're there all the way through to July. And I've got one child whose homeschool the eldest is at home. So that confuses things a little bit as well. But Teddy likes being at school. I think he likes his friends. Yeah. And but we've had a really fantastic summer just chilling out. And it's always a bit sad to go back to school.

Scott Benner 20:56
Do you still live in the same house from when we spoke the first time?

Anna 20:59
Yeah, we do. And it's absolutely gorgeous. And we've got Yeah, we just have so many nice things we can do. And, and I listen to your podcasts, and you talk about eating out a lot. And it's quite a job for us to eat out. It's quite a journey and can't get takeaways to live foods. So I think that probably means to be a better diet in one way because we just we can't just go out and have something to eat very easily.

Scott Benner 21:35
Yeah, I remember you sending me a photo of like your property and thinking and Powell kind of just lovely it was and feels like it's in the woods and a little remove things. It's really nice. And it's interesting that it brings up that idea that you can't go you know, at a moment's notice. You can't run to a restaurant or to a store you have to be prepared to cook and have things in the home and I guess that's interesting. It you say it leads to to better eating.

Anna 22:04
I think we live quite a slow life compared to a lot of people probably because of the location but um, yeah, I think I think we do live quite a small life. So anything that's happens outside the house is like a special occasion. And, and thankfully, the kids seem to really enjoy that they're not really desperate to go off into like, you know, mentioning trampoline park. It's it's maybe once a year, that the most that we do something like that. We have a meal like maybe once every six weeks. How does them so?

Scott Benner 22:42
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to step on you. No, no, that's how does Teddy get to school?

Anna 22:48
He gets a taxi.

Scott Benner 22:50
Oh, every day. That's lovely. So that seems like I know, Regal to me.

Anna 22:57
I know well the thing is he there is a school boss that takes them but we live up this bumpy track with potholes and it's really twisty and very narrow. There's no way a boss could get down here and the bus can't stop on the road the roads really bendy. So they they pay they provide a taxi. It's totally amazing. So when my my daughter starts high school which will be next year that will be two of them in the taxi and I wouldn't have to do any car journeys, running kids to and from school and I've been doing that for I don't know 10 years I've been running kids to and from school in the car.

Scott Benner 23:39
You won't miss that. That's a no I have to tell you that one of the best things that happened during COVID was me not having to get up super early in the morning because of school for arguing helping her get things together and you know taking her to school I just I got so accustomed not to sleeping long but just not getting up you know so early and I really liked it if that's all I know

Anna 24:03
because there is so much to do. You know and I just think like I hate the school routine. I hate it and I can't really say how much I hate it because I have to tell the kids it's a really positive thing to go to school but all the stuff they need and you know, choose the right and I mean I don't know but mine have to wear uniforms I don't know if if you have to wear a uniform it your skills.

Scott Benner 24:30
Doesn't know she doesn't have to but she also might not meet the Queen. So I guess it could happen for Teddy what what did you take away from the podcast? About management? Like Like you said, You were you were expecting that there were things that existed you felt it kind of inside but you couldn't find anybody else talking about it. You found me speaking about it. Did you just get to a place where diabetes sort of fell into the background and it just went the way you expected?

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Quickly before we get back to Anna, I'd like to remind you that if you're a US citizen who has type one diabetes, or you're a US citizen who is the caregiver of someone with type one, the T one D exchange is very interested in your answers to a simple survey. You can find that survey AT T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox. By completing the survey, you are helping someone with type one diabetes, you're also supporting the Juicebox Podcast, T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox. That link as well as links to the sponsors are all available right there in your podcast app right there. There's notes in there, you go into the little you'll see it and they're right there, you can you can click right on them or you can find those same links at juicebox podcast.com. If you're looking for the diabetes Pro Tip series, they are also available at Juicebox Podcast comm they're available at diabetes pro tip.com. And they're available again right there in your podcast player just search for Juicebox Podcast, diabetes pro tip. The first episode of the Pro Tip series begins at episode 210. But for that list, check out diabetes pro tip comm or join the private Facebook group and look up there the top what do they call it at the top of the Facebook group. They just changed it. Facebook changes the name sometimes in the featured section. And there's lists of all of the you know, you want me to look polling, you go into the featured section on the private Facebook group, private Facebook group is called Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes. There are lists of the Pro Tip series of the defining diabetes series, the diabetes variable series, the Quickstart episodes, how we eat series, you know, there's one of those, there's a list of popular leave requested episodes, there are special episodes that you can find mental wellness series, Scott and Jenny's where listeners send in questions that Jenny and I answered, we're actually going to be doing more of them in 2022. But there's a ton of them already there. There are significant amounts of information about how to bowls for fat and protein. So much to choose from Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes, it's a private Facebook group with over 22,000 members in it. If you go right up there at the top, in the featured section, you can find all that and much more

Anna 28:29
I think the first thing I got from it, which changed my life was that it is completely right to want your child to have the same blood sugar as you do. And, and I always felt that in my gut, that to be healthy, you should have the same blood sugar as a normal person generally as much as you can. Because that's how our bodies had been made. And nobody was saying that to me at all. And so I felt like I was sort of inventing that. And it was so nice to have that validated that you know it's it's it's a true and right goal to have normal blood sugar. And and then you gave me some of the tools to achieve that. And some of that was the technology. Some of that was a you know, micro Bolus thing. I think one of your podcasts that you did with the sugar surfer. I can't remember his name Dr. Pond ponder. Yeah, oh my goodness, that changed things hugely. And these were all things I wanted to do, but I wasn't being told I should and I'm quite good at following rules. So I was quite cautious about breaking the rules that were being imposed upon us. But it was all stuff I really wanted to do. And so you know, being aggressive with highs and Catching the lose and, and boosting regularly and boosting way in advance by especially for breakfast that, you know, nailed the breakfast and, and but more just the belief that you can do it you can you can achieve good control

Scott Benner 30:23
that that ends up being what but I guess sounds like the most important part to you is just having a foundation an idea to work for, instead of like this is going to be a mess, and nothing is going to be right now and your kids sick and you can't have decent blood sugar. So, you know, just accept that and then let your life be what it's going to be in you feeling like, I don't want that for him. And I don't even feel like that should maybe that's not even really true. How do I find out and then you you learn? Okay, I can aim for more. And then here's ways to aim for more. And then after that you're just you're on your way, I guess how long do you think it took to pull things together? To where you were comfortable in it? It felt easier?

Anna 31:19
I think since Teddy was I'd say for the last five years. And it's been felt like it's easy. And it's almost like you just get in the zone, don't you? And people say is it not hard work? And you just say what? It's literally what you do. I've got a Apple Watch. I look at my watch. All the time. We react straight away. We do all the text messaging, you know, which I learned from you. And at that point had you didn't have a phone when you were talking about texting Arden I was like oh my god, he's got to have a phone. Because I thought he was too young to have a phone. But yeah, just just all your tricks. And it just became second nature. And I don't know, it's I go to the consultant and he's like, do you never have a break? You know what? To sit down in the evening with a glass of wine. It must be such hard work. And he goes on like that. And I'm like, it's totally second nature. The hard work and I think that's what you've always said is if you if you miss the highs or you miss the lows, that's where the hard work starts. And you know, I still feel that some people they people just don't get it. It's, you know, it's normal, isn't it for, for us and for you. It's not extra work at all.

Scott Benner 32:50
I share your feelings completely I would. I would a million times over prefer to just pay attention for a couple of seconds to avoid a problem than to spend the hours of turmoil chasing blood sugar's around and being fearful that happens when things get out of whack. Like that part. I couldn't. I couldn't have lived through that. Okay, like eventually that would that would have gotten to me but the the other stuff now like just doing something beforehand. It's um I don't want to say it's easy because I don't want to, I don't want to insult anybody. But it's second nature is a great way to put it like we just we walked into that movie theater the other day. And Arden got, you know, food she doesn't normally have all at once. And her blood sugar would never went over like 145. And that and she was drinking one of those giant like Slurpee things. There's ice. And I never even remember a play. It was no it this one was pretending to be Coca Cola. So

Anna 33:56
oh, it was brown. And he has these blue, blue and blue ones, which makes your mouth all blue.

Scott Benner 34:03
Yeah. Well, I I didn't get a drink. Because of course, anyone who has a family knows after you pay for everybody else's stuff. You're like, well, I guess I won't have something so that this doesn't

Anna 34:16
that's what I always say you get the smallest portion.

Scott Benner 34:21
There's popcorn left at the end. I'll eat the pieces from the bottom, please. And so I tried her drink a couple of times because I was thirsty during the movie. And boy, it's a lot of sugar. Just you know, I was like, Oh, geez. But she drank that whole thing and had popcorn that shared with my wife that we didn't measure and she ate a candy. And I don't know how much of it she ate and I just I just did the things that I do. And it was fine. And I don't really know a better way to explain it than that other than I just I know what to do. And I just do it like I mean if you've ever played a Sport, where if there's something in the world you're just incredibly good at, you just don't think about it just happens. And I don't want to say it's like riding a bike, because that seems like an old timey statement that people will laugh at me for. But I just knew what to do. And I didn't really have to think about it. And I think that most people, eventually and I do think the podcast is helpful for that. I think you can get to that. So it sounds like you're there.

Anna 35:27
Yeah, the problem I've got the moment is that my eyesight is getting a bit worse, which I've been denying for as long as I can. I didn't want to get glasses, but I can't read his reading on my watch. Which is just really awful. So I had to go to an optician and actually get in and get glasses, so that I can read his BG on this tiny, tiny little watch face. I've got

Scott Benner 35:56
well, you acted like an adult. You know what I did? When that happened to me. I stopped wearing the watch. Just put the watch down. I was like, This thing just reminds me that I'm old. And that's not what this is supposed to be for. My wife thinks that like, my wife uses it now. I almost gave it away on the podcast. I was like I was did a thing like when Scott's Apple Watch because he can't say it. And my wife was like, I'll use it. I was like, okay, but no, I've, you know, arm's length has a different meaning to me now. You know, I used to think of keeping something at arm's length. It's keeping a person away from me. And now I think of it as where I hold my phone so that I can read it. And I've got the glasses too. It was tough. Makes me you know, it always makes me think about it always makes me think that one day Arden might have that problem. But she'll be by herself taking care of her stuff. It always makes me sad. Well, she won't be able to see Yeah, I get worried about that. Because I interview older people who have diabetes. And some of the some of the issues with dexterity come up eventually buttons and applying devices and things like that become harder as you get older. And it makes me think about that stuff. But no,

Anna 37:15
there won't be any, there won't be any devices, then we'll work. That's what I keep telling Teddy, there will not be any devices. It'll all be. It'll all be automatic and invisible. And this is the harvest fit nice. So they wouldn't have to deal with any of that.

Scott Benner 37:31
I like your ideas. That's a good I hope that happens. For sure. I mean, the way the way technology is able to leap forward. I guess it really just takes the will of, of a company to keep leaping with it. You know, you just need people to want to keep improving and innovating and making things available. So I don't know, like I listen, it doesn't make me cry in a corner or anything like that. I just think about it sometimes, like she's gonna get older, you know, and still have to do this stuff and I'm gonna be dead. I mean, it's not possible for me. Oh, my goodness. How much longer can I go? Let's be honest. I've chosen a profession where I sit still for hours and hours a week. I should have picked something where I'm moving around, don't you think? Start doing this podcast on the move. That'll sound great. Walking in the background and trees rustling

Anna 38:26
could be like a mindfulness podcast in mindfulness Titebond. So some of you could have like birds tweeting, yeah, Twix, tweets snapping on your feet.

Scott Benner 38:37
I'll just hum it. Muhammad. Just everybody just said to yourself. Yeah, I think I can get away with putting that up three times a week. Oh, okay. Oh, gosh. Well, what are your hopes like moving forward? Like are you thinking about algorithms for him? Or do you think you'll stick with Oh,

Anna 39:01
that's interesting. You asked because I've been listening to you talking about the loop system. And we're gonna wait till we we get the the only port five visit we're gonna wait however long it will take for that to come out. And that's exciting. I yeah, I think it's by the time Teddy's left home, there'll be definitely a better way of doing it already. And you know, the night times won't be such a warrior or anything like that by the time he's been idle. And yeah, I think we're doing the hardest bit and that's the way it should be so but I mean, you don't want to hope too much but I just feel really positive about it and not you know, even if it didn't really change now he's he's buki and and he can, you know, he can manage it through. I don't know if I have not mentioned but he was diagnosed with celiac, and four years ago, so that's actually had more of an impact on him than his tight wall and it's made type one seem, seem sort of far more manageable because the celiac was, was a real surprise, and like a real life changing event. And it's still something that he, he can't help but wish he didn't have it. Because, you know, there's food to feed that he wants to eat, and he can't. And that's like a harder one in a way to come to terms with when you think about his future because I think about him being no drinking beers got gluten in it. And, you know, you think about them being students and they're going to the pub, or they're going pizza or the and that's when I think that's, that's the thing that's gonna be it's harder to feel positive about but at the same time, you know, he's he's growing older with it. And there's plenty of alternatives. And there's more and more alternatives all the time. So again, it's just something that will be part of Him and He will be fine.

Scott Benner 41:14
Yeah. What's his day one see right now.

Anna 41:19
I need to look at my bit of paper, and his last Awan see was 35. In March,

Scott Benner 41:34
me think about how that goes. I'm looking at my

Anna 41:36
GI bill numbers, because I still think in old numbers, and

Scott Benner 41:43
I'm just looking for my chart, so I can figure it out.

Anna 41:47
Yeah, I think he's he's been about 40 for at least five years now. If not more,

Scott Benner 42:00
I'm looking it up. 5.8 in America, okay. Okay. That's excellent. So good. It's really, really, really wonderful. And not too hard to achieve for you.

Anna 42:18
Know, I mean, we have these, we have a bit of a laugh, because that'd be nice pizza tonight. But that's pizza in frozen pizzas. That's a night where I never get much sleep. But that's a bit of a laugh, because I do get sleep on other nights. That's fine. And so yeah, there's certain things that definitely through the BGS Tullio, and it's normally food based late in the evening eating things that are high carb, high fat. And the rest of it just seems easy. And yeah,

Scott Benner 42:57
have you heard the episode about bolusing for fat?

Anna 43:01
It did. Yeah, I listened to that. And the problem that I've got at the moment, and I don't know how long this has been going on for is I sleep through all the alarms, and I've changed them. And I double check the volume, I've got another alarm clock that I put on to go off every two hours just in case I've set through all the the alarms on the Dexcom. And so I'm still a bit scared of going to maths before I go to sleep with insulin because I'm like, Oh my God, I don't know if I'm going to wake up. And I don't know how to solve that. Because you can't make that I'm on the highest volume possible. And I know that fire men apparently have to change their alarms regularly. Or they'd sleep through like the the alarms when there's a fire. Yeah. So and that is what I do. And it has no effect whatsoever not helping

Scott Benner 43:59
you. I've never sorry, it's not helping you at all changing the alarms.

Anna 44:04
No. And I've never slept through anything awful and really, really good thing that we've discovered because of this is he's actually woken up on a zoom a couple of times when he's been low, proper low. And, and again, I only knew our numbers but like say 2.3 or something. And I don't know how much that is in your your numbers.

Scott Benner 44:29
What do you want? So pretty low.

Anna 44:34
Yeah. Yeah. So he's woken up and got up and had dextrose and going back to bed. And I've seen the graph in the morning and being like, Oh my God, and His thought is okay, I did it. Wow. But um, yeah, I I don't know. I think after all those years of not sleeping. I just, I need to sleep now and then Yeah, I don't quite know what to do

Scott Benner 45:03
about it. And I'm gonna tell you about the time your eyes stop working. It's about the time you can't just power through the night anymore. Either those those things happen to me at the same time,

Anna 45:12
always at my age. Are you getting older? Oh, no.

Scott Benner 45:18
Well, I think the thing that's going to fix that, in my opinion, since you brought it up is on the pod five. I think an algorithm that has good settings is going to really surprise you overnight. It's probably gonna be pretty cool. So that that should be a lot of comfort for you. I mean, I know he's still young. But do you think he thinks about going away? University?

Anna 45:40
Yeah, definitely doesn't want to stay here just being in this field that we live in for the rest of his life. I know. I think they all want to go off to the city at some point. And yeah, he's, he's probably wants to go to uni or college or something. Who doesn't? He doesn't know what Yeah, but

Scott Benner 46:03
your oldest is thinking about it, too.

Anna 46:07
Yeah, he's. Yeah, it still seems really he's only 15 the oldest. So it's only the beginning of thinking about it.

Scott Benner 46:18
I liked it. You're like, they don't want to, there's no way they're gonna want to stay here with us. You guys will just be

Anna 46:23
until good. Yeah, no, I suppose I'm talking. Because that was the way I fell. As I was brought up in a little village, and I was so desperate to get out. And I basically choose a spot on the map, which was the furthest away from where my village was, I was in Scotland and I choose a point on the map in the south of England. And because I was just so ready to get out of this tiny little community. And I'm like, Oh, God, my kids desperate to get out of here. And and none of them are actually seeing that at the moment. So I'm hoping we've not walked them into thinking it's a great idea to live in a field for the rest of your life.

Scott Benner 47:06
Here with you guys. For everything right. How did you end up back in? Uh, how did you end up back in a small place if you want to get away from it so badly?

Anna 47:16
Well, life, places circle, isn't it? Do you not think? I mean, I think that more and more it is do you just go round and end up where you were at the beginning?

Scott Benner 47:28
So did you go to a city and then get away at first?

Anna 47:32
Oh, yeah. And I spent years in different cities. I did loads of higher education in different places. And I worked in London and and yeah, I only came back to the countryside when I was in my mid 20s, probably 40, actually. And so yeah, I'd been away for 2020 odd years away from a rural situation. And I did all the city stuff and I think it's maybe when you have kids that he just started to sort of pining for maybe what you had in your childhood.

Scott Benner 48:09
Did this boy drag you into the woods? Or was it your idea?

Anna 48:13
No, it was me. No, he's he's from London. He's from the city born and bred and then I we went to live in London together I worked in galleries in London art galleries, and I'd get on to you know, the Underground trains work and I I come back from work because he's crazy. All these people are like robots on these Underground's on the escalators and crammed into the trains and then there's all the cars and and crazy way of living and looking at your window and all you can see is houses and that sort of rant and rave about it and and and then we basically left and he didn't think you'd like the countryside and and I I've been proved right that actually this is the way this is the way we live well. Not everyone would like it, but we love it and and you just you just want to go yeah,

Scott Benner 49:12
you just went into the city like a like a monster from a movie stole one of their boys and ran back into the woods with it. It's very nice that you guys found what works for you so well. It's uh, yeah. Lovely. Yeah. So, I guess I want to understand how much of management is you and how much of management is Teddy in the course of a normal day?

Anna 49:42
Okay, well, go is totally Teddy.

Scott Benner 49:49
No more texting when you're done with that.

Anna 49:52
He has a rule that I must not ever text him when he's at school. because it's just really embarrassing having your mom text you. So I've tried to respect that. And I think there's only once actually ever that I've, I've texted him when I was watching, and I could see that he was low. And, and in a way, I think he felt he needed to prove to me that he could do it really well, so that I wouldn't bother him. And that's what he's done. So he is totally in charge at school. And he, he does a pretty good job at school schools fit weird because I feel like there's a lot of emotion at school, because you've got all your friends there. And then you've got a teacher, you're sitting in class being quiet, and then you come out a class an hour later, and there's all loads of noise and excitement in the corridor, and then you sit down in a quiet classroom. And I think that really affects your blood sugar. And so it's quite a challenging job being at school, and it's not to do with the food at all. It's to do with just the environment you're in.

Scott Benner 51:07
Where does he? Well, first of all, is, is he Pre-Bolus In his meals, even at school.

Anna 51:15
Yeah, although he is they don't really eat. Him and his friends walk around the playground. Looking really cool. And it's like not, it's just it's not really cool to have proper food. So you might have like, a bag of crisps or something. And, but certainly not like a sandwich or anything that's in a wrapper or so yeah, he he tends to have a good breakfast. I make him porridge every morning. And then he eats like bird food all day like nothing really. And, and then he'll totally pick out when he gets home from school.

Scott Benner 52:05
Gotcha. The porridge. He's good, good apologising for without a big spike.

Anna 52:11
Yeah, we've got it down to a tee is this week, I actually way it's the only food I ever weigh for him. I don't weigh anything else. But I just we got to get the breakfast bang on if he's going to school. So way out, he has banana in it. And it's totally perfect. He doesn't need he's on for years. So it's the the Pre-Bolus is short, 510 minutes max, whereas it used to be sometimes even half an hour. And so if we sort of forget, or we're running late, it's not a big deal. And I just always feel the porridge just keeps him going pretty well through the morning. So and, yeah,

Scott Benner 52:57
that's excellent. And he just takes care of the whole thing. And now you're more overnights Eve unless he wakes up and you don't like like I am? I'm sorry. No, then. Good.

Anna 53:08
Yeah, that no, the minute he steps in the door. He behaves like he doesn't have diabetes anymore. So it's me. You then yeah, it is like such a drag to Bolus yourself and you can't be bothered to do this. And you know, it's also incredibly tiring and picking up the PTM. So yeah, I take over and I don't care. I like it. And so yeah, I don't and I just feel while he's at home, give them a bit of a break and let him you know, not have that hassle. Yeah. And if he's up in his bedroom, and I can't be bothered going all the way upstairs then it's obviously it's text messaging, and he does it all but no, I mean, through COVID I pretty much did everything. And

Scott Benner 54:06
when you said you like it, you mean you like giving him a break?

Anna 54:11
Yeah. I just it makes I just feel like he deserves it. You know, to get through a school day, it's it's a lot of work. And he's really good at school. He's such a good student. And any case say Oh god, it's all that extra work with my diabetes. No one else has got that. And I just think it's too nice for him to come home and just shed it you know, to take the uniform off and forget that he's got Bolus and that's what I'm there for. I mean, I don't work much I part time and since Teddy was diagnosed with type one, I think my hours are just year after year they've reduced and I thought actually I'd be able to work more and more. But I realized that when I work a lot I'm not Thinking about his blood sugar, and then I'm not in tune with his body, and then I'm getting it wrong. And then you're stressed and you're tired and just life gets difficult, doesn't it? So I've whittled my hours right down. So I'm just, I'm a mom, you know, and I am not always distracted by having to work. And so I just feel good knowing that I'm looking after him and giving him a break.

Scott Benner 55:26
Nice. That's excellent. Just, um, just does your does Tom work out of the house? Or does he go somewhere for work?

Anna 55:35
Yeah, well, he's, he works always within like a three mile radius of where we live. We live in a cottage on like the country estate. So it's like a private landowner who owns houses and villages, and Tom's in charge of all the cottages on the estate. So it's like 100, or two cottages. So he's he sort of manages all the repairs and designs, sort of new builds, and all that sort of stuff. But since COVID, he did a lot more work in the office from home. And so he's probably at home more than he's not at home. Interesting. And, yeah,

Scott Benner 56:12
that whole shift has been, like, Kelly just has been in our dining room forever. And then she, you know, said she was going back to work a month or so ago. And she went one day, and when a second day, and then she came back, and she said that they said to stop coming in. So I was like, Okay, let's just back in the dining room again. And I don't know when she's gonna go back now. Now they're saying maybe the end of September, they're not even sure. But the not commuting part was really nice. I know that she was losing a lot of time just driving back and forth to her office. And yeah,

Anna 56:50
it's really nice is that? I mean, I, it's quite nice having the house to yourself sometimes. And I'm not quite sure that's ever going to happen again. For me. Just to have like, a day on my own here would be heaven, but it is really nice having everyone at home.

Scott Benner 57:07
Yeah, no, I love everybody being here. I was sad. When when Cole went back to school, I, I was happy for him. Because being here was not what was supposed to happen. It was obvious. And you know, last night on social media, I saw Instagram Stories from his baseball team. And you know, I can see him at practice. And he's smiling and you know, with his friends and everything, and that's all fantastic. And but I did really get used to him being here. And I did I do miss that he's not here. I sent him a text the other day. And I said hi, just said hello to him. And he said, Hi, he goes, You know, he's like, what's up? And I said, just nice weather today made me think that if you were here, we don't be on a field somewhere, like hitting a baseball together. And I miss you. And I just want to say hi. Oh, you know, and he was like, Oh, hey, and then you know, he was gone. So that was pretty much the extent of it. But But having said that Arden's back at school now, and there was a there was definitely a moment where I thought, Oh, if Kelly would just leave, I could be by myself again for five minutes.

Anna 58:21
I just I do I fantasize about I don't know what I do. But it's just

Scott Benner 58:26
I just do everything. I just like the quiet Yeah. more quiet. Yeah, yeah, stillness that happens in the house. Although, and I don't know if you experienced this or not. But I can wake up in the morning, and you can feel when everybody's not there. And yeah, the house feels different with or without people in it. And it bums me out a little bit too. So I don't know what's gonna come of all this? Oh, does

Anna 58:53
that make me feel a bit lonely thing? Um,

Scott Benner 58:57
I don't know if it's lonely. I just really like being around my family. And I don't know it's lonely or not. I just, I like being able to, like even if you don't, you know, in a normal day, sometimes you don't even talk to people very much. But they're there. You hear them moving around, or they walk past you and you say hello. Like, you know. I don't know, I guess is that lonely? I just I always think

Anna 59:19
I'm glad you still. I'm glad you still say hello to them when they walk past you. Yeah, that must mean you get on because, yeah,

Scott Benner 59:28
yeah, you're staring at the floor.

Anna 59:33
Like, elbowing them as they will.

Scott Benner 59:35
Yeah, even like, when my kids leave the house, they always tell us they're leaving. And yeah, then there's something about that. That makes me feel like I'm aware of their greater movement, like and I don't know why that's important to me, but I like knowing I don't even know what it is. I like knowing I like knowing where they are not even where they are because I don't ask them where they're going. Just um Leaving, I'll be back. And I'm like, okay, great. And then I just, I don't know, I don't even know how to put it that feels like a connection point for some reason. Yeah, I don't know. And I could be out of my mind, it doesn't matter. Maybe I've been in this house,

Anna 1:00:14
you might know, you might emerge like a butterfly at some point and spread your wings and have a whole new.

Scott Benner 1:00:24
Well, Arden told me last night she's leaving for school soon. She's like, she says, Is it strange that a year from now I won't be here. And I'm like, so I said to her, I go, you think you can get into a college? She goes, I think I can try to tease her a little bit, you know? And, and then I thought about it. I was like, Oh, she isn't going to be here. And then you're right, I am going to need to do something. So there's some some, I guess, kind of spots around the country that we haven't visited yet. That we're thinking of maybe taking some road trips and driving to see things and but trust me, the big issue is going to be getting my wife away from work because she's a she is beyond a dedicated employee. She's a very type a worker. So when there's something to do, she does it. And there's always something to do. So we'll see if I can pry her away or not. Sounds like I should get her into the country. And she'd relax in two seconds.

Anna 1:01:26
Oh, yeah. You go camping.

Scott Benner 1:01:30
Anything, right, just just to get away a little bit. I also think your situation is great, because if you guys get on each other's nerves, and one of these naps, you can bury the body somewhere, no one will ever know.

Anna 1:01:43
No, you're right. There's loads of places you could bury a body, or you can stop off and disappear for half an hour. And nobody can find you

Scott Benner 1:01:54
just wander off. And

Anna 1:01:57
yeah, we've got a herd of them of cattle. They're wild cattle. With huge horns. I'm sorry, can

Scott Benner 1:02:10
you get near them?

Anna 1:02:13
Well, they put their heads over our fence. That there we were living in an area that they're calling like a rewilding zone. So they basically letting the whole place go completely wild. And they've got wild ponies and they we've got these 13 and white Park cattle with these enormous horns. We they just put a bull in with them. And it sort of changed the field. It feels a bit like Jurassic Park now because you hear like the undergrowth crunching and because they're quite enormous, and then you go for an innocent walk. And you always have to be incredibly vigilant that they're not very near because they could charge it yeah, maybe leave got these massive horns. So yeah, it feels like we're now living in Yeah, Jurassic Park.

Scott Benner 1:03:10
The white Park cattle is a medium size animal with mature bulls and working conditions weighing approximately 2100 pounds and cows up to 1400 pounds. Wow. So you don't know how big that is? That is because you Yeah, there's 13

Anna 1:03:26
of them and they literally stand with their heads looking over the fence. We've got two dogs so the dogs sit barking at them and I jog I go jogging along our track and I have to look all the time because the one thing that farmers said to me was don't ever turn your back on a cow so I go jogging and I might completely terrified that they're going to be there but I still do I get a bit of a kick out of the danger it feels it feels like my dicing with death first thing in the morning

Scott Benner 1:04:13
100 pounds by the way 2100 pounds by the way is 150 Stone if that means more to you okay, yeah, but a lot

Anna 1:04:22
Yeah, and they move quickly

Scott Benner 1:04:26
it's possible your episode is going to be called running from cows

this is as as as talking to me today been fun for you or did you are you let down at this point like we're an hour into it like I wasted my time or how are you feeling about this?

Anna 1:04:48
Oh, not at all. No is it's so nice to speak to you again because I feel like I feel like I've sort of known you for so long and I always want Arden to be thing Well, and, you know, Teddy knows that Arden was always the one who I was sort of looking at how she was getting on. And, and I yeah, I think I honestly don't know anyone else who's got anywhere close to what you're doing. And I do I have friends who've had kids diagnosed in this country, and I've recommended you, and I just wish I just wish everyone was doing, doing the management the way you speak about, and I wish, you know, the world would be a better place.

Scott Benner 1:05:45
Thank you. Do you? Do you think that some of those people don't do it the way that you do? Are there some people? Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Is that how does that make you feel?

Anna 1:06:00
I don't like to say anything, because it's not my place. But I it makes me cross and it makes me cross that a child can have like quite a bad start in life if you know that. They've not been managed well. And, and I do think I'll give you an example. I've a friend of ours that we've known for a long time was diagnosed only two years ago, a spike 14. And the the nurse in the diabetes team told them after six months, he said you don't need to check him in the night anymore. Because he's stabilized. So they told me this, and I didn't say anything, but I just thought how can anyone ever seen that? And he had a really, really bad seizure in the night. And they had to phone an ambulance. And it was utterly terrifying. And, you know, I just, it's just amazing, really amazes me that the experts, the medical experts still have such a dated way of looking at type one diabetes.

Scott Benner 1:07:20
No, it's interesting, too. Because as much as you know, like, I get the idea that once you say something, you feel like okay, I said it once, like, I can't come back and push. Right. Like it's, it's even though you feel like it would be valuable. There's a hard thing to want to do with getting between a person and their child's health and, and yeah, in for yourself into it. I just looked well, um, I just looked while while you were talking. And there are hundreds of 1000s of downloads in the UK since you've been on the podcast. So, yeah, it's the it's the fourth largest country for me eight for me, it goes US, Canada, Australia, then UK. Number four, for me. It's pretty, it's pretty amazing. Actually, with dragging this around the map and seeing that people listen in India and South Africa and Brazil, it's very strange. You know, there's a fair amount of downloads in Mexico. And there's even one guy listening in Greenland. So, and I've actually met him online. One day, I went on Facebook, and I was like, He's the person in Greenland who's listening here. And this guy's like, that's me. That's like, oh. And it really is there's, there's literally not enough downloads for it to be more than one person. And, oh, that was so incredibly interesting. I mean, thinking back to when you were on. I was just trying this, you know, I just like as a wondering if this will work. And the month you the month your episode was up? I wouldn't think that. I mean, I wouldn't think that the podcast had. I mean, maybe I can look actually because it might be interesting. I feel it's so bad. I have to go back into an old. It's so long ago, I have to go back into an old system that tracks things, because the system has changed so much since then.

Anna 1:09:23
I know. And the picture changed. I remember when that changed.

Scott Benner 1:09:27
Yeah, Arden Martin was like stop using pictures of me looking like a baby and I was like, Oh, okay. Oh, do you think of her as a little kid though, right. You know, I told her a lot of people think of you this way and she's like, I don't care. And I was like, Alright. Embarrassing. Yeah. She does well with it. But I mean, there are limits to how much she'll accept I think. April or this is crazy. April two 2015 the month your show was on the entire the entire show, not just the 10 episodes that were up at the entire show got 1536 downloads that month, like that. Month Hold on a second. Yeah. And if I'm not mistaken, I had an episode go up this. Do and that episode. It's only been up for a handful of hours. That episode has 1238 downloads. Wow, already. That's the episode and I won't share with you how many 1000s of downloads the whole show has today already. But it's a lot. Wow,

Anna 1:10:43
it made you feel really good.

Scott Benner 1:10:45
It makes me yes. I mean, that should be my first answer. It makes me feel like I accomplished something and that it's working and that people enjoy it. And it's helpful to them. And that's why it's growing. And that's why people listen to it. So that part is really amazing. I am still a little like stunned by it at times. Yeah, you know that, that a month's worth of downloads in the first year is now a couple of I mean, it's honestly, it's like an hour's worth of downloads now. And it's weird. You know what, the more than anything, it gives you a feeling of responsibility. Yeah, that you realize how many people are listening and you very badly do not want to lead them wrong. And and it's also strange a little to know that some people are counting on you for their entertainment. Because the show has become like it's I don't think it's I mean, it's a diabetes podcast. But it's it's a regular podcast, too. You know, like it's, I think, yeah, some people just like listening to I love listening to audio, like before you and I got on. Yeah, I was listening to something that I enjoy listening to. And then I took my headphones off and sat down here and I'm talking to you now and when I get up, I'm gonna put them back on and keep listening to what I was listening to. So yeah, I It's interesting to know that somebody's sitting thinking, like, I wonder when this episode is gonna come out, and that they're waiting for it. It's nice. It really is. It's a very fulfilling feel like

Anna 1:12:16
I've only got a couple more minutes because I've got to go and pick up my daughter from school.

Scott Benner 1:12:20
No, well then let's say goodbye. Is there anything that we didn't talk about that you were hoping to?

Anna 1:12:26
No, I think we well, we just we just chatted, it was lovely. It was it was a nice catch on. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:12:32
I just really, I thought it was so interesting. When you reached out I was like, Oh my gosh, she was on the 10th episode I would love. And I remember and I remember you. Because I mean, try to imagine 10 episodes into making a podcast in New Jersey. Yeah, no, I heard from a lady who's like, I live in the country in England and I want to be on your podcast. I was like, wait, what? Like, wow, you know, like it was a little mind blowing, you know? And, yeah, tomorrow an episode goes up with a woman who lives in Canada, but is of Iranian descent. And her son was diagnosed while they were at a wedding in Iran. And like I edited one last night with somebody from New Zealand and a little girl from Russia was on recently and really, you were the first one. So you'll always be the first one at a you'll always be Oh, well. I really appreciate you doing this. And thank you so much for taking the time to come back on again. Thank you

a huge thank you to one of today's sponsors, G voc glucagon, find out more about Chivo Kibo pen at G Vogue glucagon.com forward slash juicebox you spell that? G VOKEGL You see ag o n.com forward slash juicebox. And everything else you need to know is either at Juicebox Podcast comm diabetes pro tip comm or right there in the shownotes of your podcast player.

I'd like to take a moment to thank Anna for coming back on the show, but also for coming on in the first place. I breezed over it a little bit in the episode. But Anna came on the podcast like I said in April of 2015. I think the show was going up once a week and it started in January January of 2015. The podcast started. I was putting up one episode a week. And I didn't really know what I wanted the podcast to be yet. I think Anna's was one of the very first conversations that I had just a talk with a person and It must have had a real impact on me because the very next episode is Episode 11, which now we all know to be bold with insulin and a fan favorite. But, you know, the experience I had talking to her put me in that headspace when I went back to record episode 11. So I'll always be very grateful that she came on the podcast back when, honestly, very few people were going to hear her story. But today, a magnitude of many, many more heard what she had to say. So I appreciate her helping me build this thing for you. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.