#577 After Dark: 50 Years

November 15, 2021Scott Benner

Cindy has had type 1 diabetes for over 50 years.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 577 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Well, today's episode is with Cindy, and she's had type one diabetes for 50 years. Now, this one's an after dark but interesting story. I put the edit on this one, maybe a month ago. And at this moment as I'm putting on the ads, I don't remember why I made it an after dark. I just have a voice note at the end of this to myself that says, Make the length of sentence. How do I forget how I put it something about the episode title is the length of Cindy's time with type one. And this is an afterdark that's it, and I don't remember why. So we're gonna find out together. I'll listen when it goes up to while you and I are listening. Let's both remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. are becoming bold with insulin. Have you filled out the T one D exchange survey? I'll ask again T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox US residents please. Alright, here we go. This show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries. G voc hypo Penn. Find out more at G voc glucagon.com. Forward slash Juicebox. Podcast is also sponsored by the Contour Next One blood glucose meter. Learn more contour next one.com forward slash juicebox.

Cindy 1:53
My name is Cindy and live in Washington DC. Everybody asked you at happy hours in Washington. What do you do? That's like the first question. So probably doesn't really apply to the podcast. But I'm the managing editor for scholarly publications. And I have been type one for many, many, many, many, many years.

Scott Benner 2:12
Do you mean that when people find out you live in DC, they imagine you're involved in government or lobbying or something like that.

Cindy 2:19
It's a DC thing. Like anywhere you go. Hi, I'm Cindy. What do you do? It's a DC thing. It's all about work. This town is work, work, work, work work.

Scott Benner 2:29
You think it's Hi, I'm Cindy. And then the person wants to know how they can how you can help them in their career. Exactly. Gotcha. Okay. Can you be valuable to me Sunday should be the next statement. Not what do you do?

Cindy 2:43
Probably not know, I'm sorry, Scott. I don't think that's gonna happen. You

Scott Benner 2:48
don't think it'll work for me? It's funny.

Cindy 2:51
I mean, that unless you want to start editing or writing or you do plenty of editing, and I'm sure,

Scott Benner 2:56
I have to tell you, I'm a terrible writer. And in that I just didn't. I paid no attention in school. And then I wrote a book, which is the oddest thing. And as I was writing, there were just times where I just couldn't, I'm like, is that a coma? No. You know, like, I just I'm, structurally, I'm terrible. I got a lot of nice feedback about the book and the way it flowed and how it read, but I didn't know the first thing about what I was doing. So

Cindy 3:30
I actually have your book. Do you really? Yeah.

Scott Benner 3:33
Thank you. You know, does it need to be re edited? Is that what you're thinking? No, I

Cindy 3:39
think it's okay.

Scott Benner 3:41
Thank you. So, how old are you now and how old were you when you were diagnosed?

Cindy 3:46
Oh my goodness. I'm 59 and I was nine when I was diagnosed.

Scott Benner 3:51
Wow. Did you get like one of those metals, the lily metals.

Cindy 3:55
You know, my family's kind of flaking out on me. For the Johnsons metal you have to since obviously, I don't have any records of when I was diagnosed, you have to have family members write letters and so I drafted letters for my family to just fill in the blanks and sign nobody did it. Man So nificant other really wants me to get the metal because he's really an all about recognition. He's very big Washingtonian that way. And so he's like, alright, the letters for you. I'm like, No, I've got to live I'll sign them like no. City. What

Scott Benner 4:29
are you touching? Oh,

Cindy 4:31
sorry, my palm my bracelet is okay. I use my hands Okay, no,

Scott Benner 4:37
no, I listen, I talk with my hands. When I'm not it's odd when I do the podcast I do a little bit in person. I do it a lot. And I think I've stopped myself because I know I bumped the microphone and cables and things like that. But that's that was just so funny because people won't understand that right before we started recording. We set you all up so that you wouldn't touch anything that you I can hear you getting excited and tell the story I was like, did she find something to touch?

Cindy 5:03
It's my it's my dog tags on my wrist bumping against my punk. It's okay, that just yell it's. So my arms crossed. Now let's see if that works.

Scott Benner 5:13
You'd be sitting on your hands by the time we're done. So I, so that's interesting. I didn't know we'd be talking about this right away. But so you understood that family members, probably, these weren't the people who you could just say, hey, I need you to write a letter. So you said, look, here's a letter explaining my diabetes, can you sign it and mail it?

Cindy 5:32
Again, no response? I don't know why, I don't know. I mean, maybe things were going on in their lives that I was really pretty disappointed was like, Oh, come on you guys. Because you need somebody to say this is what was happening. And I did all the Googling, like, who was president and just so you have to sort of be able to account for current events at the time and the tests that they knew you when you were diagnosed, and I made pursued again, my mom's 95 Though now, so I'm not sure she's really up for it.

Scott Benner 6:03
Gotcha. But if you need me, I can sign your mom's name and mail it for you. Okay, well,

Cindy 6:07
I think about somebody I mean, he was like, I'll, I'll sign it for you. Authenticity,

Scott Benner 6:15
I'd be happy to sign your mom's name is what I'm saying. So you just send it over. It's how I got through middle school. With tests, I found a lovely girl named Karen, who, I just decided she would be my mom. And so I just had her started. This is very devious, but I pre planned knowing that I was not going to do well in school, and that they would make you get these tests signed, if they didn't go well. So instead of ever having my mom sign one of them, I just went to this girl named Karen. And I was like, Karen, I'm gonna need you to be my mom throughout school. So four years, Karen was my mother. You got to think ahead, if you know you're gonna mess up is that that's a that girl did it. She was so nice about it. I think it was frustrating at some points, because I really didn't do well.

Unknown Speaker 7:02
Thank you.

Scott Benner 7:03
I don't think so. She was so proud. I like she was definitely one of the girls that as I think back, I would have been nervous to talk to I and so I just was, you know, it's like, Hey, can you sign this? Eventually, a girl named Julie also took it up when Karen moved on. So I had to go to different people helping me. Okay, so tell me a little more about I mean, how far back can I don't just doesn't, it's not pejorative? I'm just how far back can you remember?

Cindy 7:31
Remember when I was diagnosed yet?

Scott Benner 7:33
Because I'm 50. And I don't know anything about the beginning of my life.

Cindy 7:39
I think my life started when I became diabetic. That's one of the first things I remember.

Scott Benner 7:44
really well, and how much of that can you put together for me here like, when

Cindy 7:49
it's pretty good age, right? I was nine and I know other people can remember before that age, but I don't know if it was because it was such a big shift. Because it's so heartbreaking because of how my family dealt with it. That feels like my when my life really started. I don't remember a lot going on before then. It's a weird dynamic. I'm not quite sure what that's about.

Scott Benner 8:13
Well, so 50 years ago, management, what did it mean? Like you're a nine year old and suddenly this has been thrust on you. What what is it that's been thrust on you?

Cindy 8:23
The thing that really stood out for me is that you can never have sugar candy again.

Scott Benner 8:30
That's what they told you just no sugar, no candy. What did you eat growing and you'll

Cindy 8:34
go blind if you do. I mean, it was really very scary in my bath. So my sister said, Does this right? Is this what I heard or am I just, you know, making it up? And she said, No, they pretty much told us no sweets. And I was heartbroken because my father used to bring me candy all the time. He'd come home and he'd bring me candy, candy, candy, candy, candy. And so to hear that I was never gonna get eat candy again. Like it was not cool. I was in the holidays. I think we're kind of ruined for me because the holidays have so much food and candy associated with a minimum of my first Easter basket. This is going to be a woe is me story. And I thought for sure my mom would put a chocolate bunny or something in there. No, she put tried it sugarless gum.

Scott Benner 9:26
That's not the story. No,

Cindy 9:28
I was like really a number being really disappointed. I tried not to show it because she was doing what she was supposed to be doing it.

Scott Benner 9:38
Yeah. Well, so it wasn't hyperbole either. Right? They were, that might have been true. On some level at that point. Like you they needed to cut carbs out of your life. Or you were going to suffer some long term effects because that's just was that just the honesty of the treatment at that time?

Cindy 9:58
I think it was um, Because I don't think they really knew how to manage it. I mean, remember this was on one shot a day. Yeah. In the morning was very old beef, pork and sling, it was similar day and limp day with the names of the insulin wasn't multiple daily injections, certainly no pumps didn't know what your blood sugar was have been testing your urine. And we know that that's not very helpful or effective. So yeah, I think at the time that that's just how management was, you just didn't think to take more insulin for eating more carbohydrates. In fact, it was very hard for me to get my head around adjusting my insulin to a sliding scale. When I got older, that was a really new concept for me, I was used to taking this 138 Was 38 LMT and eight units of semimonthly for years and years and years and years and years and years and years. And that's all I took,

Scott Benner 10:51
just get up in the morning and shoot that and then try to eat a certain amount of carbs at certain times a day, or was it?

Cindy 10:58
Well, for a while we tried that. But that didn't last very long. Once I got a little older, I just saved anything. But yeah, we tried that. And it was the exchange diet, which I'm sure you've heard of. So it was different than carbs. It was counting exchanges one bread one through one vegetable. One milk, so I think of it more like almost like counting calories instead of cars, but I guess it was cars, but that's not what we called it in.

Scott Benner 11:25
Because that doesn't take into account any of the glycemic load of the foods that you're having.

Cindy 11:30
No, not at all, which I think is is part of why they really made the hard and fast rule. No sweets, no candy. No. I mean, they had some allowances for your birthday. You could have angel food cake.

Scott Benner 11:45
You're a great sponge cake for old ladies for my birthday. Great.

Cindy 11:48
Exactly. And I hate angel food cake. To this day. I just

Scott Benner 11:53
I bet you do. I remember my father wouldn't eat chicken. And one day I just asked why? Because it was odd. We'd have chicken for a meal and my mom would make my dad a piece of liver every time. And it turned out that his dad had a job that on Fridays, if you had a good week of work, they'd send you home with a live chicken. And that was part of the like a bonus for working there. So my dad got chicken constantly as a kid and then couldn't stomach as an adult.

Cindy 12:22
Couldn't see. Yeah.

Scott Benner 12:23
So are you seeing that? I want to make sure I definitely understand that all the way back in the beginning. You weren't even using regular an MPH you were using something even more ancient ancient they I was looking for the word. Thank you then that.

Cindy 12:38
Yeah, no, it was called similar thing. Monday was beef pork. I'm sure it wasn't very pure. Fact I used to get a fair number of skin reactions from it because I just think it wasn't very pure insulin. So yeah, that was a long time ago because it was 1971.

Scott Benner 12:55
That was the year I was born Sunday. Yeah, now. Listen, it's making me feel old. How do you I mean, what do you you can't just do the woe is me here, right that far behind you. But that's crazy, like and like to listen to now in 2021. And so how long did you do those those first insulins again?

Cindy 13:15
What's a long time well into my teens? I don't know, when I went on to regular an MPH might not even have been until college. I didn't have the best of care. Well, part of is I didn't have the best of care. But I also didn't take very good care of myself. So I may have not gone on to mph, right? Maybe in high school. But then they wanted me to take two shots a day. And I was like, Oh no, this, this now I don't want to do this. And eventually I did. And that was quite a while before. Maybe I was in college, they wanted me to do even more shots. And now. Because really, even though it was terrible control, one shot a day was pretty simple. You took your insulin and that was it.

Scott Benner 14:02
Right? So you weren't really thinking about outcomes. You were thinking about livability?

Cindy 14:07
Yeah, only when, at that time, I just figured I would die and I want to see and I would go blind and I just sort of took that like, okay, I guess that's gonna be how it is. I mean, I never thought I'd make it to 50 years. That's not it'd be long gone or I'd be sick. So yeah, I just started like, Well, yeah, I guess I'll go blind. I guess I'll mean, as I got a little older, I got a better grip on that. It's like no, no, you don't have to you can make better decisions. But when I was younger, and I didn't have much control over what was going on around me it just sort of, well, okay. When you

Scott Benner 14:45
said a minute ago that you didn't do a very good job. What does that mean to you?

Cindy 14:51
Well, compared to what I do now, um, I eat pretty well and obviously we test our blood sugar and I'm on a pump and I have a CGM. But then you didn't know what your blood sugar was. And when I became a teenager, I just ate and ate and ate and ate all the bad things. Nothing that was wasn't like vegetables and broccoli. It was like pizza and sugared sodas, and I will said pop up for a long time. In Colorado, you save pop instead of soda. But so I didn't take very good care of myself in terms of my diet. I always took my insulin. I never was someone who didn't take my insulin, but I didn't abide by my diet very well when I became a teenager.

Scott Benner 15:37
And so is it fair to say that you were probably only abiding that diet in the beginning? Because you're young enough to be controlled by the fear?

Cindy 15:49
Yeah, I think so. Plus, you know, when you're nine other people are generally feeding you. Um, and that lasted for a little while my family, it's interesting, my family, not getting told my family, but they didn't deal with me becoming diabetic very well. And they tried initially, and thank goodness or my sister who's 10 years older than me, she she was only 19 At the time, but she really did make a good concerted effort to watch my diet to teach me how to take my insulin. She was really great. And thank God I, I had her but my mom. Initially she was pretty engaged. But then she sort of checked out. And actually my father never learned anything about my diabetes, you'd always just say, Oh, he was too stupid to understand it.

Scott Benner 16:38
He just didn't want to be involved. Right? How many how many kids? Did your parents have?

Cindy 16:42
Three, and I'm the baby. Wow, Cindy, I'm

Scott Benner 16:45
gonna do something I don't normally do. But I need to take a break for one second, and I apologize but I will be back in two minutes. Okay. I'm so sorry. I'll explain why as soon as I get back.

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I'm back. Just make sure I've got my recording going again. So are you there? And yeah, I apologize there. So they're keeping in mind that I'm doing this. My wife is working downstairs, she's on a call with France. And I have two young people here cleaning up the house, like kind of outside a little bit. And I said to them, Hey, between 11 and 12, no, no loud stuff. And they're like, Okay, no problem. And then another person showed up to help them and didn't get that message. So. So there's this noise, that then my older dog is is responding to so my wife just texted me and she's like, Please do something. Alright, so I see a guy got something accomplished here, I asked him to move to a different place for a little while. So hopefully, the dog will calm down in a second anyway. I want to jump right back into it. Because I, I'm kind of fascinated by this, that you have this good recollection of the time. I want to go back to you saying you just thought you were probably gonna die. And I realized that that that's such an odd thought now, because management looks so different insulin, so different. Technology, so much different. But is, is that a freeing experience? Or is it a limiting experience to be told that your life's probably going to end short? And you will be blind when it's over?

Cindy 22:16
I think for me, it was limiting.

Scott Benner 22:20
I mean, I would imagine that I just I, I've also heard people just say like, Oh, I just thought, well, this is my lat. And then they ran forward.

Cindy 22:28
Yeah, and I think for me, it was limiting that I made certain assumptions that now are being challenged, I assumed that I would be the one who got sick, and my sister would be taking care of me. And that hasn't been the case at all. And I really worry about losing her first. And that just breaks my heart. I'm like, Oh, my goodness, like that. I didn't realize I had that assumption, when I was a kid, that I would be the one who would get sick. And I would die before my sister. So I kind of had that that was just the cosmic way. That was the way it was supposed to be. Sure it's gonna work out that way. Now. Here I am.

Scott Benner 23:06
Well, you know, you take this, this number, this 50 years number. And if you go back another 50 years, beyond 1971, you're coming right in at the advent of insulin. So being born another 60 years prior or being diagnosed 60 years prior to when you were you would have just died? Like they didn't even have insulin, it just would have been like, Hey, we're sorry, your kid's pancreas doesn't work anymore. They're going to die.

Cindy 23:32
Oh, yeah. I mean, it would have starved me to death, I would have died. So

Scott Benner 23:36
and so this is such an incredible improvement over that. And yet, your experience is still not what we would expect is expect the right word, not what we would hope for for a human beings life experience, except you somehow made it to a point where things changed. And you're seeing an incredible, I really feel like you're you're an interesting conversation because you have real world knowledge of both sides of this, it feels like to me was regular and mph. Not much of a difference. When did you get the faster acting insulin?

Cindy 24:13
Can you know I couldn't tell you for sure. I think it was maybe a little purer than the semi Wednesday and Monday. And I don't remember what the peaking time or anything like that. So my Wednesday, Monday was the thing I didn't like about regular and NPH was the absolute must eat lunch, you absolutely had to eat lunch. And even when I was in the sixth grade, I had to eat with a second graders because they ate earlier. And that was terrible. I mean, new sixth grade you want to be eating with the second graders so I never liked regular for that or even semi live day because you had to time your meals so closely to the insulin and that was problematic when I was in school. And when I was working. That was always Jag,

Scott Benner 25:00
what kind of? It's interesting, right? Back then nobody cared about kids. I know, like younger people don't understand, but nobody would think like, Oh, we're gonna make Cindy go to lunch with kids that are five and six years younger than her. She might not like that. They would just think that fixes the problem. And then that way,

Cindy 25:16
right? Definitely, yeah, no, there wasn't any of this touchy feely.

Scott Benner 25:21
But now, so let's, let's ask, what was it negatively impactful on you to sit? Because I assume everybody in that room thought of you as the sick kid who had to be there?

Cindy 25:32
Probably. Yeah. I mean, I was, I was more embarrassed. Because you know how the kids started to get that age, it was just just wasn't a lot of fun. anybody to talk to and then, and then what and then when my class would go to lunch, because I'd already eaten, they'd have me like, you know, work on the bulletin board or something like that. And interestingly, this is when I think my relationship with food started to really go south. I used to, because the teacher, one of our teachers used to give out candy to kids for rewards, while they couldn't obviously give it to me, but I used to steal her candy when I was working on her bulletin boards when everybody else was at lunch.

Scott Benner 26:15
And that's the first step in this adverse relationship with food.

Cindy 26:21
So mean actually as much candy as I was fed before I became diabetic. I'm not sure that was a great setup to begin with.

Scott Benner 26:29
Because it really felt like something got taken from you.

Cindy 26:31
Oh, yeah, absolutely. I even remember being in the hospital. When I was diagnosed and stealing Lemonheads from the little girls nightstand next to me in the room. I was in for a kid, right. So yeah, even remember, the Lemonheads to this day, though. Um,

Scott Benner 26:49
but that's a connection. So again, to kind of look backwards. You know, parents and their involvement with their children has grown over the decades. So this candy your father would bring home was probably a major connection point for the two of you, I would imagine. I think so. I think that's a good insight. Yeah. Yeah. And it's probably one of the only ways he knew how to show you. He cared about you. i I'm guessing because a guy in his 70s with kids is born in the 40s or 50s. I'm assuming born in 1913. Oh, my goodness. Excuse me. Yeah. So I'm not assuming he's, um, had some very warm upbringing coming through that time either. No, I

Cindy 27:33
don't think so. I think it was pretty rough.

Scott Benner 27:35
Do you have kids? No, I

Cindy 27:37
do not even have cats anymore. Like I can't. I'm a reformed cat lady. So I don't have no cats. I didn't have a significant other. And that's cool.

Scott Benner 27:47
So you might have just named this episode. And not meant to so you had to say something more interesting than reformed cat lady before this hours over? Thinking about that, oh my god, yeah, you're gonna be pissed when yours goes up, you're gonna be like, Oh, no. So Okay. Wow. Now, how was your health through that time? Like, or how was it measured? I guess?

Cindy 28:16
Um, that's a good question. I mean, we did the urine testing. And was actually my sister who found a doctor who was not just our general GP, who had some specialty in diabetes, but he wasn't endocrinologist by any mean. And his care was actually pretty mean. You know, you're gonna get your legs cut off. It wasn't real, effective. But it didn't make me want to try a whole lot harder, I must admit. Um, and I guess it was just by urine testing. And if you weren't losing weight, I don't really remember them paying a lot of tension and all of you, you took your insulin and you were on your way

Scott Benner 28:58
do not being dead was the measure of success. Yeah, I

Cindy 29:01
don't remember anything other than testing your urine. I don't remember them putting a lot of focus on anything else. It's different than it is now. Yeah.

Scott Benner 29:11
When do you remember it? Shifting to a one CS and that kind of stuff.

Cindy 29:19
When I was in college, I don't think I had my first a one. See, John until I was in college.

Scott Benner 29:23
Do you have any idea? What was your sense? 11%? Yeah.

Cindy 29:27
And I think that hadn't been drawn. When I was a teenager. I could have very well been even higher. Yeah. So like I say, I'm pretty lucky than I'm here.

Scott Benner 29:38
And that wasn't shocking. It was just matter of fact, right? You're just like, hey, everyone's he's 11 Did they say that do something about it? Or,

Cindy 29:44
um, they were pretty dismayed. But I didn't really have anything to compare it to.

Scott Benner 29:49
Yeah, I can't imagine a 11% is an average blood sugar of 269.

Cindy 29:57
I know. Imagine how crappy I felt.

Scott Benner 29:59
Yeah. Well, that was my Next question is at some point, do you have hindsight for how it affected your mood and your overall life?

Cindy 30:07
Yeah, I think this is gonna be it's gonna sound like I'm really exaggerating, but I think I probably felt really physically bad like most of the time. And sometimes I wonder how it affected my outlook on life because I'm not necessarily the sunniest and curious person. But I wonder if you feel bad all the time, if that affects how you experience the world.

Scott Benner 30:32
Yeah. And just the cloudiness that comes with in the brain function that is limited by the blood sugar being higher all the time.

Cindy 30:40
Yeah. And I didn't even really realize that, that that had such an effect until the last few years until I mean, I've been controlling my blood sugar's pretty well for quite a while. But really, so to pay more attention because I can loopiness last two years. Yeah, I guess I'd never really put it together so much. How my moods were really dramatically affected by my blood sugar.

Scott Benner 31:02
Does it make you sad?

Cindy 31:05
Yeah, it does. I look back and think, oh, yeah, that wasn't so good. That was kind of rough. And not a great way to. I mean, I love seeing these parents now. Like on the, on the Facebook group, just being so proactive for their kids and so concerned. Conversely, sometimes I feel like they're a little tortured by the numbers. But still, I just am so pleased to see parents really stepping in and trying to do the best for their kids. That just makes me feel like, that's gonna Bode so well, for the kids will just like with you, and Arden too. It's like, oh, that just warms my heart so much to see parents trying so hard to manage such a difficult and frustrating disease,

Scott Benner 31:48
do it the way I kind of see it, I think is, is shifting the burden from the physical of the child, like in your example, to more of the stress and mental side, and at least it falls on the parents then. And not the kids I have to say to your story hits me right in. I mean, I don't know how long you've been listening, but I am, I have a real hard time with with the idea of wasted time. You know, like I I really upsets me to look back and see that days, weeks, months, years were spent in a way that they didn't need to be and that there's no way to go back and fix them or get you know, get that time back again. And your story just makes me feel like that. It's just that. That idea of like, I wonder who Cindy would have been without this kind of feeling. Yeah, yeah. And if you don't feel that way, I'm not trying to bum you out.

Cindy 32:45
No, it's it's an In fact, it. My diabetes is me, it does not feel separate from me. In fact, it took me a long time when I would go to see a new doctor and they'd say what medications you're on, I tell them what medications I was on. And they say, Aren't you on insulin to? Oh, yeah, that's right. So for me it's a big part of my identity. So I don't even know that I can go back and say well should have coulda woulda. And the thing is, Scott is if you didn't know how to do differently at the time, you just didn't know it was

Scott Benner 33:19
the best that they had. Yeah, no, it's all hindsight that allows you to feel that way. It's you know, I'm not saying that I'm curled up in a ball bemoaning every every bad decision I've ever made. It's just it's a sad idea that that to be born, then instead of 30 years later, leads you to say I'm not a person with a sunny disposition. And I wonder how much of that has to do with that? Because you you are, you seem like a well thought out reasonable person. Otherwise you're not. You don't seem like you're depressed. You're

Cindy 33:55
you haven't heard the whole story? No, I've worked for many, many, many, many years getting my head together I really have. So I feel like I'm pretty self aware. I'm pretty self observant. I've come a long ways.

Scott Benner 34:06
What did that path that you traveled look like?

Cindy 34:10
Pretty rough, and graduated high school, which was no big deal, because that was expected. And then I went to school in Boulder and took terrible care of myself. And I don't even know if I should mention this. But Boulder, University of Colorado was a big, big big school and I was really overwhelmed by it. I just wasn't ready for a state school. Not at all. So I got proselyte I was proselytize and join this church that was a near cult. And it was just crazy in retrospect. And I was in it for a couple of years. And I just decided you know, I don't like what these people are doing. This is this is not cool. And so I left and they all ostracize me. So all these kids who I thought were my friends wouldn't have anything to do with me. So we're we're stuck in this big state school with all these kids who were acting like I was just, you know, something terrible that shouldn't be dealt with. And I wonder if that's part of what sent me into my first depression. So I was actually hospitalized when I was in college when I was a senior, so I had to go to the five year plan. But I've graduated, and got myself together for a couple years, but then I moved to Washington DC, from Colorado, and the East Coast is very different. I think you grew up in Philly. So I did not be able to relate to this. But the East Coast is very different than the West, it's just different. It's more fast moving, and people aren't as friendly. Um, so there was a bunch of other circumstances that happened at that same time, and just an attack that had really severe retinopathy. I discovered about a year after I moved here. So I actually got really depressed again, and was hospitalized again. So that was a really bad time in my life, I had really severe retinopathy, and I was hospitalized for a long time. And unfortunately, I made a couple of attempts, which I'm not crazy about. But I'll tell you this, that since then, it's so lucky that I was able to go to the hospital that I was able to go to, though surance company would pay for that now, because it really, I got better. And I've not been hospitalized since then. And I've just been able to incrementally make my life better, better and better with each passing decade. So I think had I not gone to that hospital when I was 30. That's actually where I had my 30th birthday. Um, I would never have gotten better and might not even be here. Wow. So

Scott Benner 36:40
Cindy, you just got rid of your reformed cat lady title, you did a good job there that was thinking you're like, wait a minute, I can get out of this. No, wow. Okay. Let me make sure I understand that picture a little bit. So as a senior in college, did you have what I guess they would have referred to back then as a breakdown of some kind?

Cindy 37:04
Yeah, I got really, really super depressed and it's hard to quite figure out now I did make a pretty serious attempt. And that was really scary. And in retrospect, now, it makes me really sad. Looking back at that young woman, I'm like, what a rough way to get started on your adult life. You know, like, that's, that's not great. But I got through it. And I was hospitalized a couple of times, maybe two or three times. Didn't the longest at the time was a month. But then I got out and moved back to Denver and pretty much got my act together and got my first job and did really well until I moved out here. And then things kind of went all the heck, then

Scott Benner 37:47
what do you have any idea what precipitated the first hospitalization?

Cindy 37:52
I think it was really leaving the church and having everybody just just kind of shun you. Yeah. Plus, my family was a bit of a wreck too. So I don't think that helped is really hard for my mom from for her to lose me to have me go to college and be independence. And so I think there's a combination of things.

Scott Benner 38:14
And then you did finish up school. You traveled east? And then and I'm sorry, but when you say attempts, you mean suicide, right? Unfortunately, yeah. Okay. And then and so you had a couple of more goes with it there. And then were hospitalized a couple more times, I would imagine around the attempts.

Cindy 38:34
Yeah, yeah, I was, I was pretty sick. And so I was having I couldn't work. I was having a really hard time working. But I was also going blind at the time, not blind, but it looked like I was going to go blind because I have really significant retinopathy in both eyes. And so I was having a lot of laser treatments. And somebody who had promised to move you for these sorts of for somebody who promised to move here with me didn't. And so that sort of broke my heart. And then Washington was, was different than Denver. And it was really hard for me to sort of scale up to me now, I could do it because I know what cities are like, but then I didn't know I mean, I grew up in suburbia, almost a rural area. So it was very different moving here. It was hard and then almost going blind didn't help either. So it's like a confluence of things.

Scott Benner 39:23
Yeah. No, just a lot of stuff that all felt like it had no exit. I feel like

Cindy 39:28
Yeah, I mean, it was scary thinking about going blind. I mean, I felt like I dealt with it pretty well. Like I went to the Columbia Lighthouse for the Blind and saw their apartment that they had you stay in and things that they could teach you and so I felt like I've dealt with it pretty well, but it didn't mean it wasn't scary.

Scott Benner 39:45
Well, so you were really oh gosh, okay, so you were headed towards blindness and preparing for it. And yeah,

Cindy 39:52
oh yeah, I thought for sure. My my, my retina guy who I love Oh, thank God for this guy. Um, he saved my vision. He didn't say anything at the time. But many years later he said, Yeah, your retinopathy was pretty bad. And for a doctor to admit that even many years later is usually means it was pretty bad. You know, usually they're not that forthcoming. So yeah, it was really bad. I have like 18 laser treatments, because this is the era of lasers and for have attracted me is I guess,

Scott Benner 40:25
oh my gosh, Is it painful to have worked on your eyes like that?

Cindy 40:29
Yeah, well, the creepy thing is if you have an ocular block, it's not so bad, but ocular blocks. In fact, you can't feel anything if you have an ocular blood. But the ocular box really creepy because they have to inject anesthesia in your face so that the needle gets back to your ocular nerve. And you can't close your eye. So they're coming at you with this big needle. I mean, I'm sure people who are getting shots of their eyes now from for retinopathy, I'm sure they have similar stories. I don't know what the shots are like now. And the attractive bees. They're just a pain because I couldn't drive for a long time. For a while I couldn't see people's faces. And that was really dismayed. You take for granted how much you information you gather and how much connection you have to see people's faces.

Scott Benner 41:17
Yeah, I have to tell you, the short story is still I can't quite get the tightness in the chill out of the top of my spine, but I'm working on it because I think I drew myself a picture while you were talking.

Cindy 41:28
Creeps people out that story does and it was pretty creepy. Don't close your eyes. That's a really big needle. It's right under your eye to get back to your ocular nerve.

Scott Benner 41:38
Okay, okay. All right. Good. What we're gonna skip over that. Oh, my gosh. What? So I'm assuming, you know, the control is what set you towards the retinopathy. So is, is that the moment where you figure out how to manage in a different way or not?

Cindy 41:58
It did bring me up short, I really do. And at the time, 20 years out from diagnosis was usually typical for getting retinopathy or being diagnosed with retinopathy. And once again, I had thought, oh, once again, I met the milestone. 20 years, there I am. But that's when I started to think, no, maybe this could be different. You know, maybe you don't have kids and that next milestone, which is the kidney failure, maybe you can promise I didn't have the best relationship with food. I used food a lot to comfort myself. So it was difficult to sort of get around that. And it took me quite a few years to stop using food to comfort myself. And then the other thing is I have wicked sweets. It's just a wicked, sweet tooth. So that's always been problematic. being diabetic, too.

Scott Benner 42:47
How did you how did you overcome the food discomfort?

Cindy 42:52
I think I, some of it's just gaining mental health. Okay. I think introspection and connection is support. And I think a lot of it is just mental health. Oh, I'm using my hands again, my bracelets bumping against my watch. So let me stop doing Thank you.

Scott Benner 43:09
You see, you just you sort of found more clarity in your life overall, and then didn't have to go to the food in the same way.

Cindy 43:17
Exactly. Yeah. Okay.

Scott Benner 43:21
I have to collect myself for a second. Like I remember your email, but I wasn't 100% ready this morning. So there's a lot going on here. And so I didn't have I usually take a couple of minutes to like, gather what I'm thinking about before I sit down, but you and I just sat right down. And there were a couple of technical problems. And then like 30 minutes later, you have a needle in your eye. And it's I want to make sure I do do justice to your story here. Okay, let's see. So, so the shifting your relationship with food, does that coincide with a better understanding of insulin? Or was that in itself just a big improvement for you?

Cindy 44:03
It's a big improvement. I think it just gave me more just mental health so that I wasn't turning to food for comfort. I was turning to other things. And you know, I'm, I'm not you talk a lot about knowing about how insulin works. Still not sure I know how insulin works. I mean, I know how it works. I understand how it works and I understand peaking and all that good stuff but sometimes I still feel a little flum expire, like what is this about which is jumping far ahead but I'm actually experimenting with eating and low carb because I just can't get this carbohydrates thing down I Pre-Bolus I do all kinds of things. Now my budget gets high and then it gets low and then I get frustrated and then I you know start griping about it and some really trying to low carb things like blood sugars are just so much better and they're not. It's just

Scott Benner 44:54
easier. I would do whatever is best, especially when you have advanced it shoes. I mean, that just sort of makes sense to me. And you're willing to do it. And it's not causing you any kind of emotional trouble to Ed that way. So I would do it.

Cindy 45:12
Yeah, I'm working on it. Because I really I think that needs a little bit of help, though, because I keep having lows. So I got to kind of figure that out. But I'm pretty on top of everything.

Scott Benner 45:20
What is it? We need a little good news here? What is your agency right now?

Cindy 45:25
Oh, I'm so proud of my agency. This last one was 6.3%. And the one before that was 6%. So really excited about those because that's the first time I've been able to break seven. Well, no, I broken 10% A couple times, but only like 6.8. So that 6.0 I was so excited. I posted on Facebook, this is what my human will name once he is wow. I was really excited. So and actually looping and being exposed to your group. And a lot of the things that I've learned just in the two years that I've been looping have also really helped me gain better control. What pump are you using with the loop? I'm using old Medtronic pump. Okay, cool. Oh, that's

Scott Benner 46:07
amazing. Good for you. That's just so that is so exciting. So you're telling me that this, this improvements, only a couple of years old for you?

Cindy 46:17
This market improvement? Yeah, yeah. No, I've always really struggled to break that. 7%. And there's also something that I've picked up from you. And I wonder if it wasn't part of my thinking is that well, that's just the way diabetes is. Is if you think about it, that's kind of how I grew up, right? Yeah.

Scott Benner 46:37
No, every step of the way it was don't eat sugar, or you'll lose your eyes. That's what happens. And and and other messages like that. And then by the time you're 30, your site is impacted. I don't see how you wouldn't believe that.

Cindy 46:53
Yeah, so it's been interesting to sort of recognize that be like, Wow, that point there.

Scott Benner 47:01
Thank you. This makes me feel nice. Thank you. I, I have to say that has always, just from the beginning, robbed me, oddly, from the very start of my daughter having diabetes, and a doctor, intimating it and then being, you know, starting a blog and having more contact with people who had type one and seeing other people who were writing about it. I just, I just really much rub up against that idea of like, well, this is it like this is it, there's nothing you can do about it. I hate it when people say that's just diabetes. In even when they're just being flippant about it, which I understand completely, when you're just joking a little bit, it still makes me uneasy, because I think someone's gonna see that. And that's going to be their thing that they use to give up and say, say, somebody else agrees with me. This is the best I can do. It's not my fault. It's not because I don't understand something. It's because the magic diabetes fairy has controlled my life. And so this I'm just on a wild ride to the end now. And, and I don't think that needs to be I mean, your example, proves that out over and over again. Do you have any other autoimmune issues?

Cindy 48:20
A little bit of hypothyroidism but really lucky, I have some other complications, but they haven't been debilitating anywhere bilateral frozen shoulders and getting the tendinopathy type things like the trigger fingers and that dupa Chin's contracture, I think it's called some getting more of the sort of tendinopathy stuff, but it's not so terrible that I can't and the frozen shoulders are pretty bad, but they're not like going blind or being in kidney failure or having your feet amputated or anything like that. I mean, they were a pain, but no pun intended. But I, you know, I've got through those,

Scott Benner 48:59
you go through them real quickly with me, frozen shoulder, how does that present?

Cindy 49:04
Your shoulder freezes, actually, it was really incredibly painful, usually to non dominant side. Really, really painful, you lose range of motion. Now, they, when you look online, it'll say, oh, usually resolves in six months or 12 months or 18 months. For me. It started in 2006. And I was just able to swim again, with both arms across the pool last summer.

Scott Benner 49:32
So we swimming in a circle up until then,

Cindy 49:35
exactly, it was one arm. Yeah, um, but then it happened to my other arm too. And that I was really unhappy about because it was so painful. My left shoulder wasn't happened to my other shoulder on my on my shoulder. And I just knew my shoulder was never going to be the same and that really frustrated me that I was really cranky about it didn't get as bad as my left shoulder. So that's encouraging, but it's still not bad. So what it was before it froze, I'm

Scott Benner 50:02
sorry. Is There A Treatment For or

Cindy 50:06
physical therapy, which I found to be well, actually a full honestly. And I wish I'd done more research had it manipulated under anesthesia, where they just manipulate your arm and terrible the scar tissue. I really regret doing that, because it's really painful. And they couldn't give me cortisone. And they sent me to physical therapy the next day. It was good. It was terrible.

Scott Benner 50:29
So you're telling me that they shot you up? So you couldn't feel it? And then manipulated your arm in a way that broke up all that? And then there was no medication afterwards? Exactly. And then wanted you to keep moving it?

Cindy 50:40
Exactly.

Scott Benner 50:41
How long was that process?

Cindy 50:43
Quite a while. Um, I think I did physical therapy for a while. And that was incredibly painful. I think we've time it would have gotten better on its own. I don't think that going through all that made it better any faster. I think with time it would have resolved I say,

Scott Benner 51:01
what were the other two things you mentioned, there was something about your hands, I feel like

Cindy 51:05
your finger your finger gets locked. Okay. It's a tendon thing. And pretty typical with type one, I think, well, what diabetes in general, and then is new for me the stupid Chin's contracture, it does what it's called. So you get these lumps in your hands, and then doesn't have everybody doesn't progress, the same for everybody. But you get cords that extend from these lumps in your hand, and they draw your fingers in towards the palm of your hand.

Scott Benner 51:35
Oh, no kidding. A gradual thickening and tightening of tissue under the skin. And the hand condition most often affects the fourth ring, and fifth little finger over time, can cause one or more fingers to stay bent towards the palm. This can complicate everyday activity, so it doesn't like you can't make it go back.

Cindy 51:56
I can't Well, my hands are not so bad now. I mean, I have the bumps in my hands, the lumps, but my fingers are fine.

Scott Benner 52:03
And did they did these did that get better as your blood sugar improved?

Cindy 52:08
This is a recent thing. Oh, it's recent. Started? I'd say within the last year six months. So seems is that it's kind of frustrating that I have an A one C 6%. Yet I'm still getting these. What are considered complications.

Scott Benner 52:24
That sucks that it sucks that? I don't know if you've, you know, Jenny from the like, the pro tip episodes and stuff. Yeah. Yeah. She always makes that point that she wants people to understand that. You can't bank good health. And that and I just, it sucks because you put all that work in and you came all this way. And you figured out so much. It just sucks that there's not a there's not a not a trophy at the end full of like, I don't know, you know, no complications or something like that. Yeah, it is unfortunate. Yeah, you don't you don't win a you don't win a prize like that. You do win. I mean, feeling better. Do you see yourself as a different person now? Like, forget the depression and the emotions and all that stuff. But just clarity wise, do you feel different?

Cindy 53:13
Yes, yes. And people have told me I'm different to well, Q is told me I'm different. He's like, Oh, this low carb thing must be great. Because you're so nice. What am I like, what? I'm not nice? You've been so sweet lately, like, okay, I guess I'm really reaching when I'm not like,

Scott Benner 53:31
you gotta you gotta throw a special shout out to all the significant others in the world who who are with somebody who's impacted like that, because it's difficult to love a person who is I don't know what the word is, but not always the way you expect them to be. And yeah,

Cindy 53:51
here it's tough. I mean, it's hard for me to relate to you because I'm the one who happened to low blood sugar. Right? So no, right. I used to be in pain since and I know it can be really hard on him sometimes, particularly when it's like, what is this about? And if I don't recognize it's low, you can get pretty pretty. Yeah, pretty quickly. And then I always feel so bad, but then part of me doesn't feel bad because I'm like, Well, I didn't.

Scott Benner 54:17
It wasn't me. City. Are you? Are you I mean,

Cindy 54:21
that doesn't quite slide that I mean, it's true. That that I don't know.

Scott Benner 54:27
It's true for you. And not that important to him. Exactly. Yes. Right. It's everybody's got their truth in this and not one is more more deserving of attention than the other it's just it's what it is. It's what it means to be with somebody who you know might get a low blood sugar and you're the mean drunk equivalent of getting a low Are you like personally mean when you're

Cindy 54:51
like candy? Yeah, I can really, I just lose all reason. You know, they just, they just think that oh, things that shouldn't set you off are things that are not a big deal. And he was so sweet the other day he make breakfast. And that's kind of a rare occurrence. And so he was really proud of that foolish me, I took my insulin much too far ahead thinking I'd Pre-Bolus thinking he'll be done and he wasn't done. And so a bunch of got really low. And I blamed it on him. I said, you took too long making breakfast? Well,

Scott Benner 55:25
that ain't gonna get your breakfast again anytime soon.

Cindy 55:31
So, so that was that was not a good diagnosis. If

Scott Benner 55:34
you're lucky, you didn't have to catch a box of Grape Nuts coming into your head in that situation.

Cindy 55:39
I you know, later, I felt really bad. It wasn't his fault. You should have you know, had, we should have asked him when is this going to be ready? When's your best guess? But I took my insulin thinking that I was making breakfast and it would take me this long to finish breakfast. Not Hello, it would take him to finish breakfast.

Scott Benner 55:58
Yeah, I know, this isn't diabetes. But I have mentioned on the show a number of times I, I found out that my irons been low for a fairly significant swath of my adult life. And that I have it up now where it belongs. And the same exact things, you're talking about just having reactions to things that aren't commensurate to what's happening. Like, it could be like getting upset about just nothing. And it feels completely legitimate while you're doing it. It does not feel like it doesn't feel like Oh, I'm now upset about something that I shouldn't be, you're like, This thing feels incredibly important in that moment, and every one of your reactions feels warranted. And the people around you don't know your irons low, at least at least they can look at you and think like, I bet her blood sugar's low, you know, I for until it was identified, no one knew it. And then even after it's identified, the thing that I noticed that was kind of crushing from my side, but I think relates to what you just said, and is understandable, is that it didn't immediately wipe the slate clean with the people around me who had to experience it.

Cindy 57:09
That's probably true. Yeah, it's not like you're given all of a sudden, okay, we understand,

Scott Benner 57:15
right? It's hard to give away. You can't just give away feelings that you've had in the past, because you now understand why they happen. You can't just forget them. Now, that's a good point. Yeah. And it's, it's, um, anyway, that's, it's sad to me that that happened to me or that it happens to other people. Because I do have that feeling of like, I wonder how I would have been in these scenarios. Like, I wonder how much of what my children think of me would have been different if my iron level was 30 points higher, which is so ridiculous. You know, because I am definitely different now. And just by different I mean, like, I don't find myself being irritated by things or upset or gruff. nearly as much I still, you know, like, sometimes something just makes you upset, but the threshold for it is so much higher now.

Cindy 58:02
Have other people noticed it too? Or have you just mainly noticed it

Scott Benner 58:06
in my family? Everyone here knows. Good? Yeah. Good. So,

Cindy 58:10
Jamie, it's nice to have that positive. You know that what's what's the word? I just like? Just like so much validation, validation.

Scott Benner 58:17
You don't like the word validation? No, no. It's because you're, it's because you're gruff. Cindy. Don't be talking about positive stuff. All the soft kids nowadays. You know, I'm just Well, I mean, you've been through Cindy, and I made a cursor, you've been through a hell of a thing, really is something else. And you You seem really good natured about it now. And try to be pretty

Cindy 58:45
open about it. I'm pretty. I mean, this is a phrase that I'm not crazy about, but it is applicable many times it is what it is. It's like well, that was my history. And not a lot I can do about it. Now. Like you were saying earlier, there's me you can't go back and change things. And maybe it's part of what's me. Me Me now.

Scott Benner 59:10
Yeah, I have to say that I had no intention of this when we started talking, but this is an after dark episode.

Cindy 59:17
I thought it might be the other day you posted on Facebook. Like I'm looking for people for more after dark episodes. And I got you. I almost posted we have a date. Just wait.

Scott Benner 59:30
I held off. No, it really is. And I'll tell you these, like I find this conversation with you. enlightening, and it feels it's a little difficult for me because I don't have the ability to talk about things preferentially. You know, like I can remember like a friend of mines father passing away and you know, he's crying and I'm joking about it at the same time. Like I don't know how to I'm not good. That, like, I'm not good at just, I also don't think anybody would listen. By the way, if this was an hour of you just recounting a horror story after horror story, I don't think people would be able to get through it. And I think I was gonna say a lot. But I think everything that you just said, is incredibly important to hear for people. And I want them to be able to get through it, and and to listen to it and to hear that you're still a person who has a life. You're not. You're not a case. You don't I mean, yeah.

Cindy 1:00:25
So I mean, that's part of the reason I, when you said, you know, you think you'd be a good candidate for the podcast, I thought, well, you know, it's been 50 years, and I want people to know that you can make it that long, even if you were diagnosed in the dark ages. And just to just to give people a sense of like, yeah, you can get through. And so that's part of the reason because I thought, well, you know, maybe people can glean something from my experience. And if that's the case, that's great, right?

Scott Benner 1:00:52
Just imagine, and just, well, first of all, I'm sure that that's the case. But just imagine 50 years from now, I'm 100 years old, I'm doing this podcast, and and I'm interviewing somebody who was diagnosed, you know, this year, and that how much different their story is gonna be, they're gonna, they're gonna, they're gonna have a story that sounds like I was diagnosed. My parents were scared. They got me a continuous glucose monitor. A year later, I get you started using an algorithm that kept my blood sugar stable. And to be perfectly honest, I didn't notice it. I mean, it sucked having diabetes, but their story is gonna not mirror yours in any way. Hope. So I really hope that's the case. At least, it could be I guess,

Cindy 1:01:35
I hope so. I really do. I think it could be I think just even within the last 10 years, I mean, CGM, and comps and it was on a pump quite a while before I was on a CGM. I'm not really sure how I ever did it. Didn't have very good information to be on the pump. And I would rather be with if I ever had to give up one of the one of the other I'd give up my pump before I'd give up my CGM. I always tell everybody that

Scott Benner 1:01:59
well, yeah. And I would say I was gonna ask you as a person who's had diabetes, this long, greatest adventure ever for diabetes. What's a CGM is the greatest Advent for diabetes that you've seen. Yeah,

Cindy 1:02:11
yeah, better than the better insulins better even then the pumps. I think the CGM is just I know everybody uses this phrase. But as a game changer, I really do think it's just, it's just, it's just remarkable. It's probably the best thing that's come along, in my opinion. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:02:27
I have to agree. I don't have nearly as much time with this as you do. Being around it. But I, I haven't seen anything that's more impactful than this. There's ways around some of the other stuff. But this thing is just it just allows you to make decisions that are are so much more accurate and thoughtful.

Cindy 1:02:46
Yeah, I'm also curious about algorithm pumping. Loop has made a big difference. I did looping for two years now. And what you will hear so many people mentioned if you've mentioned is sleeping through the night, in fact, it was cute. Not too long after I was on loop. My significant other said, How come your alarms not going off in the middle of the night?

Scott Benner 1:03:11
Yeah, excuse me, um, you know, harden has been using loop for a long time. And I'm still very excited to try like Omni pod five, because sort of like what we just talked about is, is that if, if if if Arden can get on on the pod five, and it works, the way loop works, it still takes out that little piece, there's no connecting that Riley link ideas gone. And that just makes it incrementally better again, and so I have my fingers crossed for it. I can't wait to try it. And see. Well, I

Cindy 1:03:39
think there's a lot of good things coming down the pike. Yeah, control

Scott Benner 1:03:42
like you from tandem. People seem to love Medtronic is going to refresh their algorithm, I would imagine sooner than later. You know, it can only get better. Like, I really feel like when Arden's in her 20s I might even be shocked by what's going on.

Cindy 1:04:01
I hope so. I really do. I hope so. I mean, I really, I really want the kids who have been diagnosed down kids, the parents of the kids I see. Like in the Facebook group, I really want those kids to do well. And it just warms my heart so much that people are looking out for their kids. And this sounds silly, I know. But it really does just because parents should look out for their kids, but it is a different era. And I really love it when parents even though I feel bad for them sometimes because it is it is a burden for sure. And I do feel like they can be a little tortured by the numbers and see that's one thing that was easier. There were no numbers when I was a kid. But it wasn't healthier. So I would I would take the numbers over not knowing the numbers.

Scott Benner 1:04:46
I enjoyed listening to you talk yourself through that just now. Honestly, I really did because because you have like a you have there's some romantic feeling about diabetes prior to understanding the data where you're like I didn't really have to think about it. But then you're like, but look where it led. Maybe it would be better if I just had to have thought about it. Which you you agree with, because you said to me earlier, you know, when you heard me say, you know, don't listen when somebody says, Oh, that's just diabetes. I feel like those two things connect somehow. So it's very cool. Did this podcast help you, Cindy?

Cindy 1:05:22
Oh, yeah, no, this has been great. It's really nice to be able to tell my story. Because probably not the best story ever. But I do, I just want to give people some hope that I have made it 50 years. And yeah, that's some complications. But I also didn't take very good care of myself, and had I taken better care of myself. And I also think I'm very lucky. I think I may mention this in my email, but a friend that I went to summer camp with died when she was 35. And so I feel very, very, very fortunate to be here. And she did not take very good care of herself. Plus, her mother had died, and she had been type one. So I feel really, really fortunate to still be here. And I need to remember that on my cranky days are on my sort of very lucky,

Scott Benner 1:06:08
I think the thing, the nicest thing you've said in the last hours that you feel lucky. I think that's great for people to hear. Because you maybe did just get a little lucky. Like, that's a great example, like things go a little bit different one way or the other. And your friend, you know, loses her life in her 30s diagnosed around the same time, as you imagined. Yeah. And so starting from that point, you had as much chances not as being that way, too. I would assume as many people probably were, who were diagnosed back then. And yeah, and instead, you've got a you things, as much as your description makes it sound like things didn't go well. They at least went into a way that you're here. And you have this new clarity, and an opportunity to take better care of yourself. So when absolutely

Cindy 1:06:59
no, I'm very lucky, and also helps with my mom's 95 I think I've got good genetic loading too.

Scott Benner 1:07:05
I was gonna say you might be a little bit of a genetic badass and not even know. Badass or like, no, seriously, like, your body might just have like, its own pseudo armor or something. And that's my Yeah, it's important for people to remember too, we all don't get the same. The same go. So that's another great reasons to take incredible care yourself.

Cindy 1:07:26
Yeah, I agree. I agree. And the playing fields, not even our level what I knew for tificate those things, right? I'm always like, throw rocks at brick.

Scott Benner 1:07:36
level playing field was the right way to go. I should have said that I used 1000 words, instead of just saying everyone's playing fields, not level. But I think that's important cuz you don't know when you're diagnosed. If you've got Cindy's constitution or somebody else's. And you know, so taking the best care of yourself, you can is going to give you the best opportunity. And I think that's really all you can do. Like, I feel like if that's what you did, then whenever things go wrong, if they go wrong, at least you can say to yourself, there was no better way for me to have done this. Oh, I

Cindy 1:08:09
agree. I think you should give yourself a fighting chance. I really do.

Scott Benner 1:08:12
Wow, you're really but this was wonderful. Did we not talk about anything that you were hoping to talk about?

Cindy 1:08:17
No, I think we've covered it. Wow. You were delightful. Oh, thank you. I was hoping for that. I was like, I wonder if that's gonna say I'm delightful.

Scott Benner 1:08:25
Oh, I'm delighted. That's how I know you were delightful. Can I be honest, maybe you weren't. But I'm delighted. So maybe that's what I just touched like people. Like do you think people who we get to the end and I don't say their delight for do you think they're let down? A lot. Do I? I don't know. I really found this delighting.

Cindy 1:08:44
I look good. That's a compliment. Thank

Scott Benner 1:08:46
you. Oh, 100%. I am. I used to find myself at the beginning of new episodes. When I set them up to put them out. I'd be like, I love this episode. It's my favorite one. And I thought that sounds disingenuous. So I stopped saying it. But I do feel like that. Like, I never put out an episode where I'm like, This is crap. You know, like I,

Cindy 1:09:05
I think that comes through so that I think people can tell that I hope you can tell that you've put thought into it and that you've engaged people and the only thing that's been hard for me is I keep wanting to ask you questions, but I had to remind myself No, no.

Scott Benner 1:09:19
Well, you want to ask me a question asked me a question.

Cindy 1:09:21
Well, I'm just curious, like, what's gonna happen when Arden goes to school? Just those kind of questions. I just think about these things. I don't know that is thinking about your family. It's none of my business.

Scott Benner 1:09:31
I'll feel a couple from you. But so the first one you just asked, that is the favorite question of long time type ones. Really? Yes, people who have had diabetes for a long time, who experienced it? This is me in firing, but experienced it prior to glucose sensing and blood glucose, blood glucose meters that could be used more frequently with more accuracy. People who were just in that like take a shot in the morning try to eat around Hear sliding scale, anyone who grew up through that, I imagine didn't have as much connection with their parents and their care. And so this amount of connections seems this is a lot of me in firing, but I feel like this amount of connection feels like it's not real, or it's too much, because it's not as it's way more than what you got. And therefore, it feels like Arden must have no grasp of diabetes, and will be lost when she's like, set free into the world does that about how it makes you feel?

Cindy 1:10:36
Yeah, I confess that I do worry about that. I have thought about it. But I wonder about both of you just like how the dynamics dynamics are gonna change. I don't know why think about

Scott Benner 1:10:45
well, when she leaves, I'm just gonna have to go adopted another kid with diabetes to give me something.

Cindy 1:10:49
I think so. Yeah. Yeah. Gotta have some fodder to so no, I think she'll do great. I just interesting to hear and to think about just like, wow, cuz I know, she's, she's getting pretty close

Scott Benner 1:11:01
to be 17. This summer. Again, she's looking at colleges. And she's gonna, at some point, we're going to do some interviews on the podcast weather, and I'm going to try to talk her through some of the ideas that I think she's gonna need to know. Like, I'm gonna talk to her. Yeah. And at the same time, it's not like, it's not like when she goes to college, I'm going to tell her never contact me again. So that we could do that. No, I'm

Cindy 1:11:21
sure that's true. I just think it's, it'll be interesting. And I won't be seeing because I'm not in your household and not living next door. But the dynamics will be interesting to see how they play out. I mean, I think she'll do really well. I don't have any doubt about that. I'll be curious to hear where she goes to school.

Scott Benner 1:11:37
I can't wait. I can't wait to talk about it. Like I already told her. I was like, I'm gonna keep doing the podcast, even after you move out, you know, and she's like, why won't even be here? I'm like, I still think we're gonna talk. And if not, then we'll talk about the disillusion of our connection around diabetes. Like, there's, there's plenty to talk about still?

Cindy 1:11:53
Well, there's plenty. And I've been thinking about it. She was like, No, you know, even when she does move out, and she's not under the same roof, or when she goes to school, she may be under the same roof sometime. There will still be plenty of things to navigate with diabetes. Yeah, I mean, so you guys, you'll have plenty to talk about, I'm sure.

Scott Benner 1:12:12
And on top of that, just between her and my wife and I, I have a unique situation here. I've talked to more people with diabetes than maybe some doctors have, right. And so I'm fairly aware of the pitfalls that lie ahead. And I hold no illusion that they're going to miss Arden because I'm the guy with the podcast, who knows how to make your agency stable? Do you know what I mean? Like that? I don't feel like she's gonna miss those things about having diabetes just because of her connection to me. So I want to be sure, yeah, so I want to be there. And as much as she wants me to be is the other thing too. Like, you know, I'm not gonna infringe on her life. But I'm trying to set up a relationship now where she'll feel comfortable reaching out and saying, Hey, Dad, I my blood sugar has been 200 for three days, and I don't know what I'm doing, you know, like so. Because that's

Cindy 1:13:03
just what I've been able to infer from fi I think you've set your kids up like that. Anyway, I hope so aggressively, be more independent. I think you've done a good job there.

Scott Benner 1:13:12
And at the same time, be willing to just like, I got a note from my son the other day that, you know, it felt like a 12 year old Senate to me, but I thought that was good, because it felt like he bumped into something that he just didn't understand. And instead of just ignoring it, he's like, Well, let me get some more context for this so I can deal with it better.

Cindy 1:13:30
Oh, that's great. That'll do it really well. Oh, so you're both of them as adult? I've

Scott Benner 1:13:34
all my fingers crossed right now.

Cindy 1:13:36
So you know, you're sure me

Scott Benner 1:13:37
too. What else? Oh, God asked me something else.

Cindy 1:13:40
That now It slipped my mind. It's made me curious about Arden. And how the dynamics were going to change because I can't think of the other question I had. So I guess I can't ask any more questions.

Scott Benner 1:13:49
Well, if you think of them, you let me know. I really appreciate you doing this. I really thought I thought this was wonderful. And I and I think you dug through a lot of personal stuff over a lot of decades, which can't be easy, and I really appreciate your desire for other people to hear it. So thank you very much.

Cindy 1:14:07
Well, thank you. I've really enjoyed myself.

Scott Benner 1:14:08
I'm glad this is an after dark use the length of time she's had diabetes. That's the title. A huge thank you to one of today's sponsors, G voc glucagon, find out more about Chivo Kaipa pen at G voc glucagon.com Ford slash juicebox you spell that GVOKEGL You see ag o n.com. Forward slash juicebox. Also want to thank the Contour Next One blood glucose meter remind you that you deserve an accurate and easy to use blood glucose meter. Find out more at contour next one.com forward slash juicebox and take the T one D exchange survey T one D exchange.org forward slash juice box you just have to be a US resident have type one or care for someone with type one thank you so much for listening I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast