#336 After Dark: Depression and Self-Harm

ADULT TOPIC WARNING

A 24 year old female type 1 discusses (with clear and frank language) her depression and cutting.

Not for children.

National Suicide Prevention Hotline: Speak with a counselor - 800-273-8255

Crisis and Self-Harm Text Line

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:01
clinical depression is defined as a mental health disorder characterized by persistently depressed mood or loss of interest in activities, causing significant impairment in daily life. possible causes include a combination of biological, psychological, and social sources of distress. Increasingly, research suggests these factors may cause changes in brain function, including altered activity of certain neural circuits in the brain. The persistent feeling of sadness or loss of interest that characterizes major depression can lead to a range of behavioral and physical symptoms. These may include changes in sleep, appetite, energy level, concentration, daily behavior or self esteem. depression can also be associated with thoughts of suicide. The mainstay of treatment is usually medication, talk therapy, or combination of the two. Increasingly, research suggests these treatments may normalize brain changes associated with depression. If you are struggling with depression, please see a physician immediately. Call them right now. Tell them I'm depressed, and I need help. If you can't do that, ask a family member to help you. If you can't do that, go to Google and type in I am depressed. If you are having suicidal thoughts, call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline. The number is 1-800-273-8255 and then you'll get to speak with a counselor that will help you the National Suicide Prevention again is at 1-800-273-8255. Crisis Text line.org describes self harm as follows. For some people, when depression and anxiety lead to a tornado of emotions, they turn to self harm looking for release, self harm and self injury are any forms of hurting oneself on purpose. Usually when people self harm, they do not do so as a suicide attempt. Rather, they self harm as a way to release painful emotions. Crisis Text line.org has more information or you can contact them right now. by texting home H o m e to 741741 that will connect you with a crisis counselor text home to 741741 in the United States and Canada, in the United Kingdom, text 85258 and in Ireland 0861800 to eight zero.

Welcome to the Juicebox Podcast. This is Episode 336 another in my afterdark series. Today's episode is called after dark, depression and self harm. When I originally decided to make these after dark episodes, I tried to think about the topics that no one discusses around type one diabetes, and I tell you I had no idea where this was going to go. But back in Episode 274 This all began with a drinking edition. And then in Episode 283 talked about smoking weed with type one diabetes, and Episode 305. We discussed trauma and addiction. Episode 319 was a frank discussion from a female perspective about having sex with Type One Diabetes. And today's show is with an anonymous 24 year old type one female who's going to discuss her depression and self harm. Please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise. Please always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan. You can of course do whatever you want, but I wouldn't suggest this episode for children. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by Dexcom Omni pod the Contour Next One blood glucose meter and touched by type one, you can go to touch by type one.org Contour Next one.com My Omni pod.com forward slash juice box or dexcom.com forward slash juice box to learn more about the good people who support this podcast. Today's episode does not lend itself to breaking in the middle for an advertisement. But the ads will be at the end. If you're interested in a tubeless insulin pump an amazing continuous glucose monitor A blood sugar meter that I find to be second to none. We're a wonderful organization helping people with type one diabetes. There'll be more information about them at the end of the show. And I'm going to start off by telling everybody that we are not using your name. So at no point during this conversation, am I going to refer to you by your name? Okay, and everyone will figure out why. As we're talking, okay. Okay, that seems fair. Now. I do want to know some stuff about you to get some background. So for instance, how old are you?

Anonymous Speaker 5:32
I'm 2424.

Scott Benner 5:34
And how old were you when you were diagnosed with type? 112 12

Unknown Speaker 5:36
years old?

Unknown Speaker 5:38
All right.

Scott Benner 5:40
Hold on one second. Why are people messaging me? While I'm trying to do this? Hold on one second.

Anonymous Speaker 5:46
No problem.

Scott Benner 5:50
It's gonna turn this off. All right. So you've had diabetes for the same amount of time. That you were alive before you had diabetes? You're at your midway point.

Anonymous Speaker 6:06
Yes. And I thought about that. Because it was June of when I got diagnosed. And I just started bawling. Because I don't like it's hard for me to remember before I was diagnosed.

Scott Benner 6:25
Interesting, even though it was 12 years old. Yeah, yeah. Okay. So now, that's it. Not as a strange thing, as you probably think I don't have a ton of like, really strong young memories. To be perfectly honest, I don't have a lot of really strong 20 year old memories, 30 year old memories, or 40 year old memories. I remember, you know, today and a couple weeks ago, maybe. But, but I think some people remember things differently, or do you think that there's a reason that that's the case?

Unknown Speaker 6:55
Um,

Anonymous Speaker 6:58
well, I think I'm really good at shutting things out that I don't want to remember. Because I remember things about like my kindergarten experience, and things like all through elementary school,

Scott Benner 7:12
okay. Remember this stuff? That's pleasant to remember? Yeah. Okay. So let's go into this slowly. So a lot of people will email me and asked me questions about diabetes and things like that. Every once in a while someone says something to me that I'm thinking, Oh, wow. I might not be the right person to ask this question to, but you asked it to me. So okay. And one one that comes to mind is, you know, somebody messaged me and said, I love the podcast, my children passed away in a car accident, but I still listen to the podcast to remember my one son. And that's an email for me that I'm just like, I don't know what to do with this. But I've learned in the past that just sort of being honest, is the best. And, you know, saying whatever it is that occurs to say, and then giving the person the option to talk more if they want to. And sort of how you and I met very recently. So how long ago? Were we messaging? Only about a week?

Anonymous Speaker 8:13
Yeah. A week and a half? Maybe?

Scott Benner 8:16
Do you remember what made you send the message initially?

Anonymous Speaker 8:20
I think just because it was that like, very first initial zoom.

Conference thing.

Scott Benner 8:29
Okay. So we all got together and talked over zoom, like cuz, yeah. Okay, so many people might not know, but there were 70 of you who got together, and we just sort of hung out and chatted for an hour and a half. And people held up their like graphs. And we talked about how to, you know, how to bolus differently and and

Anonymous Speaker 8:46
so I wasn't part of that one.

Scott Benner 8:49
Oh, you were the one where I was? Whoa, no kidding. So you were in the initial one where I jumped on and said, hey, let's do a Facebook Live. I want to try to find a way for us all to talk better. I wish we could all talk and someone said zoom. And I started going yeah, I've been thinking about that. But I don't know what to do. And then I just sort of just threw together a zoom account right then and there and we all jumped over to it. That's the one you were in. Yes. Ah, okay. What did we talk about that one?

Anonymous Speaker 9:16
I think you were like, just randomly choosing, like looking at people and unmuting them and talking to them. Oh, Was that fun? It was it was I just felt not completely alone.

Scott Benner 9:31
Gotcha. Okay. Did you speak during that? I did. You did. Okay. Do you remember what we talked about?

Anonymous Speaker 9:39
Well, because when you were doing your Facebook Live, you were like, how's everybody doing? And I was like, how's everybody doing with, like, COVID-19? And then I said, Oh, I'm like, super worried. And I remember you go, why are you worried? And I'm a student teacher. And just like the fact that Some of my kids don't necessarily get meals when they're not at school. And so you were just like kind of having me elaborate more.

Scott Benner 10:08
Gotcha. And so we're gonna be honest with each other here today. Is that right? Yes. Okay, good. So first of all, you just used your name, but I'll bleep it out. Don't worry about that. And if it happens again, I'll bleep it out. It's fine. Don't don't I don't want you to think about that. So I, from my perspective, when I hear someone, especially a younger person first say, you know, I'm worried about my kids. I'm a teacher. I thought, Oh, that's nice. You know what I mean? Like, that's lovely. And then you expound that a little more. And as you were talking, I thought that you are more closely tied to this feeling than felt healthy to me. Does that make sense? Yes. So that's what I kind of intuitively felt from you while you were talking. I thought, ooh, she's being impacted by this more than, like, if if my kids felt the way you felt, I would feel like I needed to intervene somehow or help them. But I didn't as much as I just was like, oh, tell me about a little bit. But then you sent a note afterwards. And in that note, I don't know how much of the note you want to share, I guess.

Anonymous Speaker 11:19
Um, well, I guess I'll start out, um, I started cutting myself as a freshman in high school, okay. And I've battled with depression for years now. Being able to really like mask it and have this shell, but I'm quote, normal, like mentally normal.

has been really hard for me. And

Scott Benner 11:51
oh, go ahead. Oh, no, I'm so sorry. I was reaching for something.

Anonymous Speaker 11:54
Um, so I cut myself all through high school all four years. Probably three months into it. Me cutting every single day. My mom found out and I told her I'd stop. And I just moved at the placement.

Scott Benner 12:17
Okay, just moved into somewhere she couldn't see as easily.

Anonymous Speaker 12:21
Yes. Okay.

Scott Benner 12:22
So I'm gonna have to ask you a couple of questions. Because I don't understand. They'll probably don't know, please. So first of all, when you talk about depression, can you put words to what it feels like to be depressed?

Unknown Speaker 12:35
Um,

Anonymous Speaker 12:37
I think now, my depression is a lot different than what it was in high school. Um, in high school, I felt

I guess I just felt like,

there was no point, there was no reason to get out of bed. There. Like the only reason I went to school, talk to my siblings talk to my mom. And played sports was

to try to feel something. Okay.

And I think the cutting just went hand in hand because I was in control of it. And I could determine how deep it went, and how much I wanted to feel. Even though after

a week,

that feeling went away, like the pain went away.

Scott Benner 13:45
So if I'm understanding correctly, all the things that most of us think about is you know, average life, going to school, having relationships with people playing a sport as a child, you didn't get any feedback from those things at all. Is that right? Like Like any, like emotional feedback from it?

Anonymous Speaker 14:08
On the inside? No. But on the outside, I mean, I would laugh and smile and have emotion. So I was like completely emotionless but I mean, nothing.

Scott Benner 14:24
So there's like, the impact of it the idea of like euphoria, or just you know, anything that kind of lights you up inside for a second you just don't feel that way. So when you hear people say I feel dead inside or empty or all the different ways I've heard it explained. Like there's just a void and nothing fills it or nothing turns it on.

Anonymous Speaker 14:47
At that point, cutting like cutting is what my whole life evolved around, right. And that's what like, made me feel something inside?

Scott Benner 15:01
Right? So if so you couldn't, you weren't getting feelings from the what they quote unquote normal avenues. So you went to something like obvious like your body can't ignore that you're in pain, so and so is that feeling like, like, do you know what it is you're trying to accomplish by putting yourself in pain?

Anonymous Speaker 15:27
No, no, um, I think it was just something I could control.

Scott Benner 15:31
Okay. And you felt it? For real?

Anonymous Speaker 15:35
Yes. Yeah.

Scott Benner 15:37
Is that does that lead to? Like, I'm thinking it's not a it's not a feeling you want? Like, I guess in the absence of any feeling some feeling is positive. But also it was painful to you. So was that a double edged sword too?

Anonymous Speaker 15:56
Yeah, yeah, for sure. And then, um, my junior year of high school. I started dating this kid. Well, guy. And he was a freshman. And we're three years age difference. We're now engaged. Hopefully, we're gonna get married this summer.

Oh, thank you. You

Scott Benner 16:22
mean Fingers crossed? Like if they let us all outside again to do something.

Anonymous Speaker 16:26
Yeah, exactly.

Um, but I was very open, and upfront and honest with him about my cutting. And then I realized, like, he doesn't know what to do with it. Right? Cuz, I mean, he's a freshman in high school doesn't like, this is his first exposure to it. And that scared me. And so I began to bottle it up again. I went the whole trying to see somebody, a doctor. And that did not turn out well. And so I felt like there was no way of getting how I felt out. Are

Scott Benner 17:15
you comfortable with telling me why the experience with a doctor didn't go? Well?

Anonymous Speaker 17:22
Yeah, I'm so

I'm from a very rural town. Okay. There's there's one stoplight in the whole county. And the county is the fifth largest county in the state. I'll

Scott Benner 17:35
tell you, that would depress me Just so you know.

Anonymous Speaker 17:37
Yeah. If you, if you're, if you're not an outdoorsy person,

Scott Benner 17:44
you're kind of screwed.

Unknown Speaker 17:45
Yeah.

Anonymous Speaker 17:49
So really, there was really like, only one doctor you could see. And even when I got diagnosed, I had to travel three hours away, because that was the nearest endocrinologist. Okay. But I'll talk. So when I first went in, saw the doctor, I was beginning to open up and find ways to cope that were better. Mm hmm. And then right after the meeting with him, because it would just be him and I, after the meeting, my mom would be like, what did you guys talk about? What's going on? and scare me? Because she's not the best person that handles delicate things.

Scott Benner 18:42
And also, if I can, you know, assume for a minute, she's probably super worried that whatever troubles you're having are her fault. Oh, yeah. And she either doesn't want that to be true, or doesn't or knows it's true and doesn't want anybody to say it. Anybody else. It's, you know, there's her humanity is, isn't on his playing defense at that moment. It was this doctor, by the way, a therapist or a psychologist or a psychiatrist, you know,

Anonymous Speaker 19:09
I think he was a children's psychiatrist, specifically. Um, and so I probably saw him for two months, multiple times a week. And then all of a sudden, I learned that he committed suicide.

Scott Benner 19:28
Yeah, that just sounds like the end of a bad joke doesn't. And, and so I'm trying to figure out how old were you at this point?

Unknown Speaker 19:38
Oh, boy.

Anonymous Speaker 19:41
Probably

almost 16.

Scott Benner 19:44
Okay. Now, let me ask you when he committed suicide after talking to you for two months, what's the feeling? Or what's the interpretation from you? Do you feel at fault or are you just like, I can't believe I was finally getting help. And now that person Gone. Like, what was that? experience?

Anonymous Speaker 20:04
I felt that

my only outlet was gone. Yeah.

I knew it wasn't my fault. Good.

And I now like, looking back on this whole experience, I realized, like, Wow, that is something that I was right about.

Scott Benner 20:25
Well, you know, what you're really proving is that living in a place that rural with one stoplight is not just depressing to one person. It's apparently depressing to a lot of people. Oh, yeah, I'm certain we don't know his Was it a male or a female doctor? I'm sorry. A male man. We don't know his his issues. But, you know, you know, he was obviously having trouble. No differently than a lot of other people. Exactly. You know, and, but the biggest concern is, is that you had found a place to learn coping skills. But they weren't ingrained in you yet. I'm assuming, and then your sounding board was gone, and your teacher was gone? And then there was just no one else to go to? Is that right?

Anonymous Speaker 21:04
Exactly. So then I just sunk back in to what I knew what to do. And what I, at this point, quote, unquote, enjoyed doing.

Scott Benner 21:13
What? What were some of the changes that you were seeing? While you were speaking with the, the psychiatrist, like, what was? What were some of the improvements you were getting?

Anonymous Speaker 21:24
I remember my mom making a comment. Like, one Sunday morning at breakfast.

She said,

you have a twinkle in your eye. And I was like, wow, I want like issue dress. Trying to tell me what I want to hear? Or do I have like, light again? Yeah. And that was really hard to accept, because I had felt this way for so long. And then I realized, like, this is what she wants to see from me. This is how I can be normal again. And so I was able to just take that timestamp of how I looked how I felt, well, not necessarily inside, but on the outside. And that was what I looked like, at all times.

Scott Benner 22:30
Now, did you feel like that? Or were you pretending

Anonymous Speaker 22:34
I was pretending?

Scott Benner 22:35
Yeah. And so so this is really interesting for people who don't have these feelings. You were probably progressing. And you saw a little bit of like, you know, you might not even have noticed that at that point. You know, sort of like the beginning of a diet. When you're three pounds down, you don't really know it, but you're so you're on your way to something, but you're not even aware of it, somebody else looks at you and goes, Oh, wow, you look good. And that reminds you, I'm heavy, and light. And here's what I don't like about myself. And here's all the things that are wrong, like and so this very kind, you know, statement from your mother, which is, you know, if it's a sparkle in your eye, it sends you down a rabbit hole of her concerns and feelings like you don't think about yourself in that moment. Like, I think a person who's not struggling, might think, oh, wow, I'm working on myself, and I'm making an improvement and other people can see it. That's fantastic. I'll keep going. But you transferred yourself right into her head and said, she sad that I'm not happy. She wants me to look like this. This is what I should be doing. This is what normal looks like. And instead of continuing that thought with, so I'll continue to do what I'm doing because it's working you thought I'll This is where I'll put myself out. This is the picture I'm gonna paint on my face because it makes my mom happy and probably makes other people happy. And it makes me look quote unquote normal. Am I understanding that correctly?

Anonymous Speaker 23:55
Yes.

Scott Benner 23:56
Wow. That's stop I'm sorry. I've seriously, I am sorry that you feel that way. Any tragedies in your life as a young person? Any? Any? I were you abused at all? Like, is there anything that we can point to? Or is that you have a family history of depression? Is there anything you can look back to and say this is where this came from?

Anonymous Speaker 24:24
I don't think so. Um, I mean,

before I was 10, my, when I was three, my parents divorced. My dad is on his third wife, and my mom, married and divorced. Before I was 10, so or so. And so I've been I've been through three divorces as a kid and I'm with my father's current wife. You He has clearly chosen her. And that has been a struggle. Um, but that was also Well, I started cutting before because I lived with them for a shorter period of time. Okay? And

Scott Benner 25:21
so does it make this seeing your dad happy? Instead of making you feel like you're happy for your dad make you feel like, he wasn't happy with me or my mom, but he's happy with this person? Does it always shift back to you like that?

Anonymous Speaker 25:35
No, I, cuz she was she was always very nice to my brother and I, um, and then I just, I moved in with them. On my birth day, I don't remember which one. But one of my uncle's got me this like really cool. Like Swiss Army knife. And none of them knew that I was going through this whole phase.

And then I remember,

like, just getting the urge to cut myself.

Unknown Speaker 26:15
And

Anonymous Speaker 26:17
I remember going into my room, closing the door, getting out this brand new Swiss Army knife, opening it and just slashing my thigh.

And then I realized

it's not stopping. And so I just grabbed a T shirt and like, tied it around my leg and went to sleep. Because I felt better. But I was worried like, Oh my gosh,

Scott Benner 26:46
now you're wearing a wound. You feel better. You feel better from cutting, but now you're worried about the actual wound?

Anonymous Speaker 26:52
Yeah, right. And so the next morning, I wake up, and it's still bleeding.

Scott Benner 27:00
How deep? It was.

Anonymous Speaker 27:03
Um, I didn't see bone. But I'd like this is one thing that I haven't thought about in years, because

it's painful at times to think about.

Unknown Speaker 27:20
Um,

Anonymous Speaker 27:24
but I don't really know if

Scott Benner 27:26
it was, but it was a bad enough wound that overnight it didn't it didn't heal over or clot. Yeah, what do you do then? Because it can't be mistaken for something else. Right? You can't say I walked past that table. It's it's

Anonymous Speaker 27:40
no than that. Right? Like, at that point, I took off that like bloodsoaked t shirt, and just went told my dad like,

Unknown Speaker 27:50
I have a problem.

Scott Benner 27:53
And then how did he handle that? I mean, beyond the wound, I'm assuming you got that dressed and taken care of. But did he? Try Like what? I guess my question is, what's that reaction like from a person who I'm assuming up until that moment, had never thought about something like that in their life? And then all of a sudden, you know, his daughter standing there saying, Hey, I cut myself to feel something. And I don't know that I would know what to say is is what I'm getting at. What did he say? Yeah. Can you understand that? Like from an academic point of view?

Anonymous Speaker 28:30
Now I can

Scott Benner 28:32
write I'm not at the time. No, I wouldn't have met your kid. You're looking for your parents that have the answer?

Anonymous Speaker 28:41
Yeah, yeah. Um, but I've like we sat down and talked. And he instantly took it as like, my hobbies. were causing me to do this. Ah, so he he whatever he could see he thought was, Do you listen to the podcast a lot? I, it's hard for me to get through a lot of episodes because I just, well, I commute to college. And it's a 30 minute commute. And I can't get all the way through. Well, that and I just, like 10 minutes into it. Whatever were you guys are talking about I just ball and cry.

Scott Benner 29:27
So no matter what someone's talking about, you take on their pain.

Anonymous Speaker 29:32
For the most part, like your first

two episodes that you put out were the hardest for me.

Scott Benner 29:42
Because I was being really honest about how I felt about raising Arden.

Anonymous Speaker 29:47
Yeah, yeah. And

it took me two weeks to get through. Like those two episodes. Why did you keep trying

Unknown Speaker 30:02
Because

Anonymous Speaker 30:05
I think it's interesting to hear a point of view of somebody that doesn't have diabetes, but wants what's best for their child. Like my parents wanted for me, but, and this isn't really like diabetes related, but they want what's best for me.

Scott Benner 30:28
Right? So it's nice to know that there are other people in the world who are trying to do their best for other people and for their kids. Yeah, but the content is really hard for you to absorb. So yeah, you're getting some good from it, and some and bad. So. So like, try to like, Listen, I record all these podcasts. And I know, they're emotional. And I'm an emotional person. And so when I'm hearing them, you know, I'm doing my best to shut them off. But feel them enough that I can have the conversation. For instance, if you and I were just talking on the phone, I'd probably be crying by now talking to you about the things you're saying. But I'm trying to be academic and thoughtful, and listen to you, and tell you how it makes me feel. Hoping that you're going to find your way to some sort of a thought, like we're recording right now. Because your note made me respond to you and say, you should really, you know, I can't tell you what to do. But I think you should find help in the form of, you know, a doctor, and you said, Yeah, I tried that at my doctor killed himself. And then I was like, I looked at my wife, I'm like, What am I gonna do? I was like, I can't just tell this poor girl. Oh, sorry, goodbye. And so I said, Well, maybe if we talked a little bit, we could find our way through to some sort of an answer for you. Maybe just saying it to somebody else who's you know, you know, there, but not there. You can't see me, right? You're not reading my face, you don't know, if I'm upset for you while you're talking. Maybe that'll help. And, you know, we're gonna try it here and do it. And at the very least, you're going to help a lot of other people. And so you get to have that feeling. You know, when when this is over. There are a lot of people who feel like you who are hiding it just the way you were hiding it. And they're gonna know they're not alone. I imagine that's going to be helpful for them. So I appreciate you doing this. I hope it helps you. I definitely expect it to help somebody else.

Anonymous Speaker 32:27
All I can do right now is just sit and cry. Because for the most part, I haven't thought about these thoughts for a long time. And so it's just kind of opening old wounds up

Scott Benner 32:38
course. But you when you say you haven't thought about them? You mean you don't give voice to them, but they still impact your day. Is that right?

Anonymous Speaker 32:46
Yes. Well, I think about cutting myself

at least half a dozen times a day.

Scott Benner 32:54
Is there anything else that you found so far, that can take the place of that need?

Anonymous Speaker 33:02
I cry, and I sleep?

Scott Benner 33:06
I have to tell you, I like doing both of those things. I really do. I love a good cry, but not the way you're describing. And sleeping is terrific. And I definitely don't do enough of it. So you're either letting it out. Or shutting it off by being a voice. Gotcha.

Anonymous Speaker 33:21
And I just well, growing up, I I was never the kid that took a 10 minute nap. I took a three hour nap. And so now that I'm a quote, adult, and I can decide when I want to take a nap. I usually like in a 24 hour period, I will sleep for 20 hours. Wow. And that includes like two naps, and sleeping for eight to 10 hours.

Scott Benner 33:53
And then in the four hours you're awake, you're crying.

Anonymous Speaker 33:59
Usually I'm well. I'm working on schoolwork usually.

So it at least takes my mind off of it.

Scott Benner 34:08
So when you're busy, it's better.

Anonymous Speaker 34:12
For the most part, um, now that I have chosen a field that I'm dealing with children, um, because I'm student teaching in a kindergarten classroom, so I hang out with five year olds all day. Yeah. And I know that none of them some of them do have like, like not the best lives but they are not developmentally where I started cutting myself, which, thank goodness.

Unknown Speaker 34:44
But

Anonymous Speaker 34:46
it just

takes a toll on like my empathy has grown so much that it is so hard for me To come home on a bad day, and not like, act on my urges.

Scott Benner 35:08
Gotcha. Is I'm trying to understand the idea of choosing to be around small children is it is, is there comfort in their innocence? Is there comfort in the fact that they haven't had problems yet. And so when you see them have that problem of not having a meal, now you realize that there, they might have problems too. I'm trying to figure out why you were drawn to this line of work.

Anonymous Speaker 35:36
In the beginning, um, like when I could decide if I wanted to teach primary or secondary. I chose primary because I'm taller than kindergarteners. But I'm a short person. And I didn't want to deal with high schoolers.

Because I thought I'd have to be a bitch.

Scott Benner 36:00
So you thought Oh, so you thought if you were physically smaller than someone, you'd have to assert yourself in a different way? And do you think, did you not? Or are you a bitch, and you didn't want to be one? Or that's aside? Like what? I mean?

Unknown Speaker 36:14
I

Anonymous Speaker 36:17
thought, I still think this, but high schoolers know better. And kindergarten will like primary for little people. They're so innocent, and they are they don't understand. And I have a lot more patience for a five year old than a 16 year old. Because kindergarteners, they don't know how to do school. And so it's a learning curve for everyone.

Scott Benner 36:48
Yeah. Have you ever thought about your location, being part of this I this, I might be 100% off on this. But I think of this sometimes. In Ireland, the potato famine was so terrible for so long, that it created a lot of depression, alcoholism, schizophrenia, mental illness, like all kinds of stuff in the Irish population, that some people believe still sticks to them to this day. And, and you really you live nowhere, like as you're talking, I think you should save up a couple of thousand dollars, get on an airplane, fly to some great Island and get a job carrying drinks to people on the beach. And just, you know, go somewhere interesting and, and relaxing, and do something that doesn't require you to be around people long enough to start taking on their pain. Because I mean, you're doing that. And listen, I am nowhere near where you are. But I am at my core. You know, I am a person who's a caregiver at heart. I think I'm happiest when the people around me are taken care of. I don't like to see people upset. And I will put a lot of myself into helping them feel better. It's probably why I understand Arden's diabetes so well. And just other people, you know, they can be big problems or little problems. The people I love, I want to be I want for them to be okay. But you know, if you dig into that a little bit, I'm adopted. So I've been abandoned once. I don't think of it as abandonment but it's true, right? Like, there were people who had me who were just like, Scott, yeah, somebody else can take care of them. And then I find out later that that is not what my birth mother wanted. She was forced by your family to give me away. And that gave me some comfort. But, you know, it doesn't fix whatever it happens to you that you're not aware of. And then my adopted parents split up when I'm 13 on my birthday, by the way. Wow. So and you were shipped from one house to another on your birthday. So there's little things about that that are hard to ignore. Even so, you know, subconsciously. You know, my father went to work on my birthday took me with him in the morning dropped me at my grandmother's house. I had a lovely day. He picked me up in the afternoon said what do you want for your birthday? I wanted this cartridge and floppy disk that went into your Commodore 64 that made your Commodore able to copy a floppy disk. These are probably a lot of words you don't know. Okay. And I and my friends had a mass mafia like setup where we were copying video games on on flop By the way, when I say floppy disk, I mean the big ones that were five and a quarter inches square. Like do you even know the ones? I mean? Yes. Okay, so you put this cartridge in the side of your Commodore 64 head like it literally on a toggle switch on it. Then you'd put this floppy disk in run this program. At a certain point, you had to yank the floppy disk out, flip the switch on the cartridge stuff in the game, let it run, pop it out stuff in a blank one, and it would actually make a copy of the disk. And I wanted that. So I asked for it. It was $100 $100 in 1983, for my dad that worked in a rubber molding plant, and my mom who didn't have a job, and we were broke. $100 was all the money in the world. And my dad just goes, Yeah, sure, where do we get it. And we drove home stop the dislike CD computer store, bought this thing, he bought it for me a big smile on his face, he was as happy as he could be to give me this thing. I'd never actually seen him that happy before in my life. We got home, we had dinner that I got to choose. My dad got up, took a shower, came back downstairs, said he was going out and never came home on my 13th birthday.

And I gotta tell you, hard not to feel like that's kind of your fault. When you're 13. You know what I mean? Now, when I look back on it, now, I see it differently. My dad was cheating on my mom for a long time. He obviously wasn't happy, he didn't like being broke, he had more responsibility than he knew what to do with. And for a split second buying me something that wasn't going to hurt him because he knew he was probably going to file for bankruptcy after he got divorced. He was like, Oh, this is what it feels like to give my son something he wants. This is nice, he was so happy. This had nothing to do with me. But for a long time, it felt like I was the reason they got divorced. I didn't know any of the other myriad of like, you know, reasons behind any of it. And as an adult now, I know it's not my fault. And I don't have any, like lingering impact from it as I talk to you today. But there's no doubt in my mind that I try really hard to keep my family together because I know what it feels like when it falls apart. Right. So I have this extra empathy that I have for their problems. Because when they're upset, I know there's a path out of being upset. And I have also seen people give up before they get to the end of the path. So I just take on the book comes with it and disperse it so that they have time to get through it. So that whatever they're feeling in that moment doesn't bounce around inside of my home, the way I saw it bounce around inside of my parents home, like had my parents just gone to neutral corners, do you know they mean or relaxed a little bit or had better communication skills or whatever it ended up being that they needed? They could possibly have worked out their their issues. And so I think a lot of people can work out their issues, if they have enough time. And don't blow things up in the middle of the argument. And so yeah, and so that ends up being who I am. And I don't know if the people around me know that about me. I don't know if they appreciate it or would want it not to be the case. I have no idea. But I just know that that's how I feel. I feel like we're a good group, the four of us, we'd love each other and something that's both should not derail us. So I think we should have every option and opportunity to not let that happen. Now don't get me wrong. You know, if I came home tomorrow, and I found out my wife had been cheating on me for 30 years, I'd be like, Oh, you know what, this didn't work out everybody out, you know. But but but I'm saying for the little day to day things. And so I know what it feels like to look at somebody see them sad and then feel sad. But I probably have 3% of what you have. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. So listen, a good, it's a pleasure, sir.

Anonymous Speaker 43:55
Oh, just you telling your story.

Reminds me because even though I was three, I remember like my dad leaving. And it's the most vivid memory that I have.

Scott Benner 44:14
Yeah, I used to go downstairs in the middle of the night. And I found in the back of a coat closet, our family portrait, which was probably in a frame that was maybe, I don't know, a couple feet wide and three feet tall, you know, used to have to go out and have a picture taken and it was melted and all this stuff in my mom didn't get rid of it. She put it all the way back at this long, narrow closet. like you'd never and I found it one day and I used to come down in the middle of the night. First I would go into the bathroom on the second floor and look out the back of the house where the driveway was. And I would sit there and every time car lights would come up. I would allow myself to be excited that my dad was coming home until the car passed by my house. So So probably not for nothing. Not exactly the Same, but that's cutting a little bit. You know, they mean like I'm opening, like, I'm opening myself up to this excitement that I know, intellectually is not real. But it felt so good for 20 seconds while the car drove by to think my dad was coming home. Yeah, right. And then I would get horribly upset. And then go downstairs, dig the picture out, sit on the sofa, hold the picture, cry, get tired, put the picture away and go to sleep. Yeah, that sound familiar with different words?

Anonymous Speaker 45:32
For the most part, yes, yeah.

Scott Benner 45:34
So I think we need to find a way to get you from all of this to some of it. Because those feelings that I describe in small doses are really valuable part of being alive. You know, like that empathy. I love that you're empathetic. I think that's terrific. You know, but how do you get from there to there? Is it a rewiring of your brain chemistry that's going to help? is it changing locations, like other people you need to get away from? Is there a place you need to get away from? Like, I don't know what the answer is. But you can't just keep doing the same thing over and over again. And hiding it because at some point, that's gonna, it's gonna short circuit you, you know what I mean?

Anonymous Speaker 46:20
Yeah, yeah, well, and because I lived in rural, for 18 years. And then I moved six hours away to the state capitol.

Unknown Speaker 46:40
And

Anonymous Speaker 46:42
just like, it's a culture, shock, Holy moly. Going from, like, 2000 people in a town or less, to your state capitol, and then trying to figure it all out. And finally finding a place like, student teaching, being with the same 25 kids and having great support, in that sense, has been very positive and negative with me.

Scott Benner 47:15
How's it been negative.

Anonymous Speaker 47:19
I, my mom works in the school district where I grew up. And she was the librarian at the middle school when I passed out and got diagnosed. So she was with me from day one, in the school system. And I knew just from knowing some of my peers that kids didn't have, some kids didn't have the best home life. But now being an adult, and being

a co teacher in a classroom.

Scott Benner 48:04
You can really say

Anonymous Speaker 48:07
yes, and seen making those hard calls to the parents and making, like having a little kid come up and say that, like they slept in the car all night. And then have but they don't tell me that even because I'm a mandatory reporter. They don't tell me that they tell the aide. So it's not up to me. Like I with mandatory reporting. It's who that the first person that the child says it too.

Scott Benner 48:39
Yeah. Well, I have a couple of questions. So first, I want to ask you a little bit about does all of this impact your type one diabetes care?

Anonymous Speaker 48:53
I think the mental part of it does. Because I usually go days without eating. Or like in high school, when I was at the height of it. I would just because I had for the first from 12 to 16. I had a pump with tubing, I can't remember. And then I've been on the Omni pot ever since. Okay. And at the height of my cutting, I would just like slap on the Omni pod with no insulin in it. And I would just go like I would just have a show of like, yeah, I have my insulin on my my pot is on so I must be taking insulin. So I would call my mom down because on top of it all, you know, me having these struggling issues mentally I'm also diabetic, it's not something you can't take lightly. And so, um, I did a lot of things that I look back now. And I'm like, I hope to live like, till I'm 70 because I really thought my body up. Okay.

Scott Benner 50:26
Well, how are you doing now though? Are you? Are you in a better space with it?

Anonymous Speaker 50:32
Yes, um, I've been, I still have my Omni pod. And I actually give, like, have insulin in it? Um, I've been on the Dexcom. Since August.

Scott Benner 50:47
Cool. is it helping? And? Yeah.

Anonymous Speaker 50:51
Pretty all through high school and into Well, up until last last August, my a one C was over 11. Wow. Like, consistently, between 11 and 13. And I haven't, I think the last time I went to my endocrinologist was in January or February, and I was down to 7.8. Very good for you. That's really cool. And so I feel like

I can.

I mean, it's a big step. But now that I'm gonna get married, and like we've talked about, like wanting kids, someday. Now, I feel like I can't think about me anymore. Since I'm the one that has the child. And like, now, I'm like, well, 7.8. I can't do anything with 7.8. So I feel like it's just like, maybe not 12. Again, well, it's not

Scott Benner 51:56
it's a it's an amazing leap. It's this, that's the sparkle in your eye that somebody notices. It's not it's not a reason to, to go backwards. It's a reason to be hopeful and keep moving forward. Also, it's interesting, where you place your hope and where you don't place your hope you want to be 70 you want to have kids. And those things seem reasonable to you. You don't you don't imagine yourself 70 cutting yourself Do you know, and you don't imagine yourself with children and being in the situation you're currently in or worse as it's been in the past. So you are hopeful. So there's a feeling you have that you're in complete control of that's working for you the way it's supposed to? Yeah, I think that's really, you know, encouraging. You got your agency down significantly. You're paying, you know, obviously much better attention. Are you eating more now that your blood sugars are better? Were you not eating because you were trying to keep your blood sugar's lower?

Anonymous Speaker 52:55
Well, pre covid 19 quarantining myself, ask, um, I, well, I've never been a breakfast eater. I don't. Well, I take thyroid medication and other medications in the morning. And that's pretty much my breakfast.

Scott Benner 53:19
Is your breakfast?

Anonymous Speaker 53:20
Yep. I don't

Scott Benner 53:21
think that has any nutritional value. No. So I hear what you're saying. So he throws off your timing because you're supposed to take that medicine on an empty stomach because being there for like, a half an hour or something like that before you eat and that throws off your morning. Yeah, and take it before bed. You can do that.

Anonymous Speaker 53:44
Yes, I've just never ate like even

when I was younger, I don't remember eating breakfast. So

Scott Benner 53:52
you don't have to apologize to me. I'm not a big breakfast eater. At all. Like when I'm trying to eat more, I kind of forced myself to have an egg in the morning or something like that. But I don't wake up and think the eat right away.

Anonymous Speaker 54:04
Yeah, and I'm an extremely picky eater. Mm hmm. And so it's very hard for me to find breakfast type food that I will eat.

Scott Benner 54:16
Which ones do you do you like?

Anonymous Speaker 54:20
Well, I'm a big potato person. And I've pretty much stopped eating potatoes.

Because it's just

it's not too hard for me with my diabetes, but to me it's just not worth it. Um, but I don't eat eggs. I don't like there's the list that I don't eat, or I don't like outweighs what I do like

Scott Benner 54:47
Well, I mean, I don't think there's anything wrong with sticking to a simple diet. I there are a lot of people who do that but find the one thing or the three things you do really like and you know have them around the house. See if that helps you eat breakfast like Imagine if you just move your Synthroid to the night and get up in the morning. And there were always three things in your refrigerator that you liked for breakfast. Like, I wonder if that would make a positive step for you.

Anonymous Speaker 55:11
Yeah, and we've

since moved into the valley.

There's so many more you pick berry farms. And so we spend pretty much all summer picking gallons of different berries. And so now that we don't, I don't really go outside, well, I don't go public places, we've been doing a lot more smoothies. And that has been something that I have really started putting into my diet, which has helped. I feel like that has helped me.

Scott Benner 55:53
Let me ask you a question. Do you have the empathy you have for those kids? Do you have it for yourself?

Anonymous Speaker 56:05
My initial responses No.

Scott Benner 56:11
I get that. I think that, um, it does worry about yourself seem selfish.

Anonymous Speaker 56:21
Yeah, and I feel that

in high school, I was consumed with myself that like, when I needed to do things when I needed to act on my urges. And so since then, I, I don't really like, stop and reflect on my happiness or my feelings as much as I probably should.

Scott Benner 56:53
So if I asked you how you, like, if you if you allow yourself to go into your hope for a second, how, how do you think you would like your day to go? Like, what what would you want your life to be like, if I gave you a magic wand that I was like, just turn yourself into exactly the picture of what you're looking for? Like, what are your days look like?

Anonymous Speaker 57:21
Me being a stay at home mom, and not having to worry about like this whole, getting an education and getting a job and being able to like love my kids and or my future kids. And

Scott Benner 57:39
so why are you doing? Why are you doing the things that you don't want to do?

Anonymous Speaker 57:44
x because it's not financially.

It won't work financially.

Scott Benner 57:52
Okay, well, but you've got this guy, right. And he loves she's thinking about marrying you guys thinking about getting married? Right? So? I mean, would there be anything wrong with him working and you at home in a small place? And you had I don't know, a pet instead of a person? Or do you mean like, Why? Why? I'm being serious for a second, like, Why? Why are we all trying to put ourselves into the mold that we think is right, like, I don't think there's anything wrong with you being the, you know, the wife of your husband, who, you know, takes care of their house, people did it for generations and decades, you know, and and it's also cool if you don't want to be that, but it doesn't sound like that's what you want. I don't think you want the job. I definitely think that being around people who your empathy is so strong for that it's it's causing you trouble is it's problematic for you, at the very least. I don't know why. I don't think it's wrong to put yourself in a situation that's good for you is what I'm saying. But

Anonymous Speaker 59:02
yeah, and I do think that my bad days are really bad. But I mean, three out of the five days of the week, I come home. And I'm like, Oh my gosh, guess what one of my kids did today. And I'm so excited. Like I feel like deep down. Like, you won't believe the shit that happened in my classroom today.

Scott Benner 59:31
So how come when I gave you the magic wand? You didn't want that to be your life where you just feel good every day doing what you like doing? It seem scarier that it might not happen.

Anonymous Speaker 59:50
I just I don't know.

Scott Benner 59:52
Yeah, no, I don't imagine you do. Um, so I have questions about what you've tried to help this You tried this, like, the psychiatric route, and it does sound like you're in a different location now, like maybe a psychiatrist would be a good thing for you to do again, and you might have better access now. But aside from that, I mean, have you ever been on medication? Ever smoke weed? Like, is there anything you do to alter yourself to try to make this different? And have you had any success with it?

Anonymous Speaker 1:00:23
I, well, since moving away, I haven't tried any antidepressants or anything like that. Um, I've tried, like, drinking, till I'm numb, or just drinking to the point of passing out.

And I don't really like myself.

Really, I don't like the hangover. And I would

Scott Benner 1:00:54
like to say that I want for you not to do that. Okay. So I think that's, I get that you tried it? It's not a viable long term solution. So So, and it did any of them. And I'm not saying the medications are either, did you? But did you have any benefit from them? Or not? Particularly?

Anonymous Speaker 1:01:14
Not that I remember. Okay.

I've tried, like edibles. And those just make me cry. Like, I don't get the munchies or anything. You don't

Scott Benner 1:01:28
get the fun stuff that people talk about?

Anonymous Speaker 1:01:30
No, I just get, like, so emotional, that I could do that. I can cry when I'm completely sober and clean.

Scott Benner 1:01:40
Yeah. Is it a sad emotion? Or is it just like, do you cry over? Like, would you look at a wooden tabletop and think about the dead tree? Like, isn't that ridiculous? Or? Like, it doesn't take you into your thoughts?

Anonymous Speaker 1:01:53
it? My thoughts? Okay, especially right? So

Scott Benner 1:01:56
no, let's put a line through that. That's a no. All right. And the medication you didn't listen, if I'm, if, if, if you put me in the situation where I'm your father for a second, I and I've listened to this last hour talking to you. And we're not done talking yet. But I would say you have to find a competent, skilled, licensed, well reviewed and thought of psychiatry psychiatrist, an accredited psychiatrist, not a psychologist, not a therapist, you need to go talk to a psychiatrist who can really diagnose what, you know, these things you're saying, and make sense of them. Because if you think you're going to wall off this part of you forever, that seems highly unlikely to me. And I think you deserve whatever it is, you want. You know, being 70 having a great day one, see, having a baby, if that's the way you want to go, being married, not being whatever it is you want, you deserve that. And I think that you should find the best option out there to try to get to that, you know what I mean? Because I just don't think that I don't think hiding, it's gonna work. And, and you're, you're just and try to, you know, I don't even want to say try to imagine but if you had a baby, and the cutting kept going, the guilt you'd feel would be immense. Because you're going to, you're going to, you're going to feel this, this connection to this baby and this desire to do good things for it and appointment in the right direction, you're going to feel like you're not doing that for it. And then that's going to be a huge problem. So you don't want to do things that are going to create new problems, you want to do things that are going to alleviate existing issues. Yeah, you know what I mean? And I know you know that and that's also the strange thing about depression or these feelings you're having it's, you're not unaware. Like, right, you don't have that knife in your hand going, this is a great idea. Birthday Cake time, like you're not thinking that you're thinking, this is my last best option. This is cutting is jumping out of the window of the World Trade Center, right? Like, I'm gonna jump so I don't burn to death to by myself five more seconds. But get right.

Do you have any luck looking at the world or yourself or anything in more of a macro way, because everything you're talking about occurs to me. And I've been thinking a lot about macro and micro thinking lately. So this is maybe why my mind's going there. But everything you're talking about is very micro like you are right down on top of every little thing, seeing the granular issue, like these kids. You know, there's a kid who sleeps in his car. Well, if you pull yourself back 100 miles, you know, the world's full of people who don't have a home to live in. And it's incredibly terrible and horribly unfair. But in reality, and I don't mean to sound harsh. doesn't have any real, today impact on you. Right? Like I can see if you want to help that child or do something to curb, you know, homelessness. That's all really cool to work on a macro or a world level, but you can't feel it on a micro level. Like that's just not sustainable. And so, you know, sometimes I get notes from people were like, I don't know how you talk to I got a note from Sony. I was like, I can't believe you talk to Donnie about his problems like that. And you weren't all broken up the whole time. I was all broken up the whole time. A lot of the things that he was saying was horrible. You don't even know what I'm saying right now. And trust me, don't listen to Johnny's episode, it'll kill you. Okay, but you know, but like, when I was talking to him, I had to pull myself back. I couldn't be in the, in the granules with him. I had to be back, looking at him through binoculars. Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah. And, and it just you're so into everything. Like, on that level, it's hitting you too hard, you just don't have enough of a force field. And I don't know that I don't know how to create that force field, I don't even want to sit here and guess about it. I don't even know that we should be talking about it. Like it's a force field, I mean, distance, like enough distance, where you can make the statement, you know, there are children starving in, you know, XYZ place. I know, that's bad. I wish that wasn't that way. But in reality, I have no sway over that I can't really affect that I can send a couple dollars to an organization is trying to help. You know, I can, you know, there's all kinds of things you can do that are big picture things. But I mean, but if I get into a plane to fly to, you know, the middle of some country where everybody's starving thinking, I'm going to hand them out food, that's not gonna work, I'm just gonna be in no time flat, I'll be in their hell to. And now I can't help them anymore. I'm, I'm involved in it. Like the people who help are a little distance. And I wonder if there's not a way to apply that idea to your everyday life to the things you say? And I don't know. But I think there's probably somebody who could help you figure it out. I'm probably not that person. But I think there probably is somebody. And and by, I mean, you sent the note to me. So at some point in that day, you felt enough of a connection with me that you were like, maybe this person can help me. Right? Because that's the only reason you would send an email like that.

Anonymous Speaker 1:07:39
Don't Yeah, right. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:07:42
Yeah. So here we are doing it. Now we got to do the next part, which is, you know, find somebody way smarter than me who understands this a lot better than I do. And get you involved with them. Because Do you feel any better now than you did when we started talking?

Anonymous Speaker 1:08:00
Good tears have steadily rolled down my face. But yes, good. See? Short answer. Yes.

Scott Benner 1:08:12
Great. So that's really cool. So you know, you need another person to talk to, that you can have these conversations with over and over and over again, even if it's just a pressure release. And maybe, maybe for years, it'll be that for you. Maybe you'll just go a couple of times a week, and talk to somebody and let off enough that you know, you can keep moving until the next time you get to let off a little more. And then find some, you know, plateau at some point, ascent. And and, and keep yourself in a situation where as you make small improvements, you can hold on to them. Right, I want to see you get a twinkle in your eye, and stay at that level, and then get a brighter twinkle and then stay at that level and get a brighter one and a brighter one and a brighter one not get a brighter one, feel the pressure and then backslide. Because that's you're just caught in this like, slippery slope. And then once you realize that's your loop, you're shutting down and pretending it doesn't exist. And that's not fair to you. You know what I mean? Like you should get to make those improvements and keep moving unfortunate. I don't think that that's not possible. You're a bright person, you're thoughtful you understand what's happening to yourself. You know, maybe you can get past that and you know, maybe there is depression that you need to you know, address with something. I mean, obviously, listen, I don't want to get you something's wrong. You know what I mean? Like, you're not you're not you're not in the same situation that the person next to you is in, but that doesn't make your situation not controllable. You know what I mean? Like, like, there's, it's probably the wrong word. But I think that there's you're not alone. lost cause? Do you know what I'm saying?

Anonymous Speaker 1:10:02
Yeah, yeah. And I feel that like, this whole COVID-19 thing has just, like, amplified it. Because I don't like, we go outside we have a bocce ball court and basketball and things to do outside. But I choose not to, like, it's easier for me to stay inside and dwell and and what could happen just? Yeah, well just like,

like not

removing myself from the whole situation.

Scott Benner 1:10:48
Let me tell you how I think about this, this specific idea. And we're gonna add a date to this, which I don't usually do, but it's April 1 2020, just because we're talking about the Coronavirus so that people can keep up. So listen to what I'm going to tell you here. And I'm trusting you because I think you are, I think you're you're a smart person. And I think you're gonna understand what I'm saying. This is going to be okay. And if it's not, it'll just kill us all. So one way or the other. You know, it's all right. Do you see what i'm saying by that like, like, this is a, this is a virus. These things have happened over time and space, multiple, multiple, multiple times, you know, you can point to the Spanish flu, or any other number of things that have happened over history, there are going to be a certain amount of people who get sick, and then get better. There are going to be a certain amount of people who get sick, and they're going to die. If you want to sequester yourself so that you're not a person who gets sick. While hospitals are overtaxed. I don't think that's an unreasonable thing at all. And you should absolutely do that. But in a month or two, this is going to be passed. And you still might get the coronavirus, you know, six months from now. Or maybe you know, I'm here and j&j might have a inoculation brewing, maybe you you know, because your diabetes, you'll be at the top of the list to get an inoculated, maybe it'll never happen, but you're not afraid to die of the flu, right? Have you ever? No, of course not, you don't think the common cold is going to be the thing that knocks you over and doesn't let you get back up? again. The problem with this virus isn't that it exists, it's that we don't have any natural immunity to it. And that it's overwhelming the healthcare system. It's not the law. It's it's that's your concern. And so sorry, for texting me, don't text me. And so. So that's the real concern. So when you look at that, realistically, you're either going to get it now later, or never, it's very likely not going to hurt you significantly or a young person. Right. And this one doesn't seem to be getting young people there's been, you know, there have been outbreaks throughout history that have targeted population centers, you'd never believe I don't know what one of the flus you know, hundreds of years ago, mainly killed young men who were really healthy. Like, who knows why that happened? I don't know why, you know, but the truth is, is the world kept spinning, we're all still here. And the ones that are behind are, you know, going to move on. You have to think of it that way, in my opinion, my opinion is is is no different than riding in a car, or walking down stairs, people dying all kinds of weird ways. Every single day, there are people who are going to die reaching into a soda machine. I know that sounds ridiculous, but it happens, they get their hand stuck, and then they panic and the damn machine falls on them and kills them. It only happens to one person a year, but still, five minutes before it happens. That guy wasn't like, you know, what's gonna take me out? Probably a falling soda machine, you know? And so and so. In the in the, in the short term, dude, stay inside, if that makes you comfortable? Do it. You know what I mean? But you gotta understand it's gonna end. And yeah, I gotta be honest with you. I'm lucky. First of all, I can do my business from my home. My wife can work from home. I've got my children with me. You know what I mean? Like I'm in that position. I don't have an essential job that I although By the way, podcasting has been deemed an essential job. I don't know if because of like, I guess because of media. But anyway, I don't have an essential job. I'm not going out and collecting someone's garbage or making sure you have food or anything like that, you know, so I'm lucky. But I'm kind of treating this like a vacation. You know, what they used to call this a staycation? Like there's no expectations, right? You don't have like there's, you know, all the doors aren't being knocked on. You know, every mortgage company in the world is not going to take somebody's house like this is a pause. Like it's not set up like that yet, but it is the world is paused like it Enjoy it. Like, just be like, whoo, this is nice. There's not a lot to do. I just cleaned my bathroom. What a beautiful, deep clean, I just put on that bathroom. Because I was like, I'm not even a rush. If I don't do the other bathroom today, whatever, I got nothing but time. And so, you know, in this time, what are you gonna do with this time? But I think you could be finding a really competent clinical psychologist or a psychiatrist that could that could maybe start talking to you on the phone or by zoom or I don't know how they're gonna do it. You could be a different person by the time you know Coronavirus is over, make make another ascension. You know, I mean, like I get a little brighter sparkle for yourself. Yeah, any of that seem reasonable? Where am I?

Anonymous Speaker 1:15:50
I feel that, like, Yeah, sounds great. But then my, like, underlying thoughts creep in. And I'm like, I have trust issues with like, I'm not saying you're gonna go and kill yourself now that you've talked to me, right? But it scares the hell out of me. Like I people commit suicide all the time, for whatever reason. Yeah. But that, like, I had seen him that day. Okay. And it was just like this out of nowhere. thing that happened. And so I just have like this very underlying trust issue.

Scott Benner 1:16:35
Alright, so listen, I promise you first of all, I'm not going to kill myself. Okay. There are plenty of people listening to me right now. Like, that guy's a narcissist. Because that's what they think. And they're gonna be like, he never could hurt himself. Well, a You're right, I could never hurt myself be I don't believe I'm a narcissist. But that's exactly the kind of thing a narcissist would say. Talking about narcissism is so funny. But let me say this to you. Until you can find a person. Right? That you feel good with. I could absolutely committed to talking to you on the phone privately every week. I could be your friend through this. And, or it could be someone else. It doesn't need to be me. Okay, but I would 100% do that. You're lovely. And I'd like to get to know you better. And if, if we, if we could have a conversation that would continue to get to your to get you to a point where you'd be comfortable enough to reach out into the world and look for a competent person to help you. Because let's be clear, I am not a competent person that should be helping you with this. Okay. But But if if if you need to see me not dead for a month, or a couple of, you know, months or whatever, if that's what makes you comfortable. I'd be thrilled to be a little part of why you're, I guess the sparkle. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, you let me know, I'm down with that. But if it's the voices coming in and telling you it's all going to go wrong, blah, blah, blah. To me, not knowing much about anything. That seems like that seems like something chemical. That's, you know, they mean happening because I think I'm right about this, like you're there's depression, where the chemicals in your brain are just mixed, Miss balanced and, and giving, you know, have it letting you have these feelings or thoughts? And then there'd be actual insanity. And you're not insane. Right? Do you know that about yourself?

Anonymous Speaker 1:18:30
I feel like I'm not insane. Good.

Scott Benner 1:18:32
Well, listen, you know what insane people don't do? They don't consider they don't consider their sanity. Now. They couldn't admit it. There's just no way they could even consider it. Listen, crazy. Don't know. They're crazy. You understand what I'm saying? So you're aware that this is weird, which means you're not crazy. You're not insane. Alright, so you're probably depressed. You haven't said anything? Like bipolar ish? You know, you're not you don't see manic to me. Unless you're not. You get manic at all. No, yeah. All right. You're probably just the pressed SOS like a bazillion other people. And it's I'm telling you, you put me in place. It was a one stop sign. I'd grown up depressed to parents get divorced. And then I get the diabetes. How much of this do you think the diabetes pushed you? Like Did you feel any depression from that? You haven't mentioned it once as being part of this.

Anonymous Speaker 1:19:27
Um, I was well, for the longest time I was just in denial about my diabetes. Yeah. I'm

probably for

eight or 10 years.

Scott Benner 1:19:43
Yeah, that's a long time and plus then your your blood sugar is all out of whack which does not help how you feel how you think? Serious now? Yeah, high blood pressures are tough. Look, I got something here. National Institute of Mental Health. Estimated 16 point 2 million US adults had at least one major A depressive episode in 2016. This represents 6.7% of the US adult population. This is four years ago. Depression is most common in ages 18 to 25. Listen, you're 24 you're almost out of it. I'm just kidding.

Anonymous Speaker 1:20:17
I wish it was that easy.

Scott Benner 1:20:19
Just got to make it a 25. But But you know, how much of getting through stuff like this is setting short term goals? Right? Like, like, I just got to make it to Tuesday, you know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna have a conversation with somebody, because that's really what psychiatry is, right? It's somebody who has a conversation with you on a regular schedule, who, if they're a psychiatrist, understands the, the reason why what you're saying is happening, like, you know that when you're talking, you don't understand why it's happening to you, but really good psychiatrist. They know right away when you're talking, like they can, I'm not that person, but they can, they can pick through it in two seconds, they will say something or relate a story. And they'll know, this applies to, you know, this theory about mental health. And then they'll know how to direct you into a better place. Yeah, you know, I just put, I don't know, like, it's up to you, obviously. But let's be honest, we can't put you in charge of this decision. You'll get depressed in the middle of having a thought, and you'll stop doing it. So you have to listen to me and go, go find that person. And until then, it can be made, we can chat whenever you want. It doesn't have to be recorded. I don't want it to be, we'll just talk privately. Okay, am I empathy will be all sorts of happy about that. Right? And let me tell you something else, too. I really do want you to think more about having a pulled back. Like view of things I don't want you to like get so far away from things you don't feel them at all. I'm not saying that. But you need to feel far enough away to realize that that kid that can't find a place to sleep, that's not your fault. You don't have you don't hold sway over that. It's not your responsibility. It's sad. But you have to be sad about it intellectually. Do you know what I mean? Like I'm sad about hunger, intellectually about homelessness, about the border problems, like that stuff is. To me, it's real. It needs impacting. I help with things like that when I'm able to. But I also recognize my limitations in a global problem. You know what I mean?

Anonymous Speaker 1:22:41
Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:22:42
yeah. It's just It's not your fault. Let's go over things. Your parents divorce isn't your fault. Your diabetes isn't your fault, that kid not being having a place to sleep isn't your fault. When you listen to this podcast, other people's problems are not yours. They're not your fault. You didn't do it. Everyone's got problems. You know, if we felt bad for everybody, we'd be, we'd all be in one level of swimming in a puddle of our own tears or another, you know, like, it's just not reasonable. Now, if that's happening to you for a chemical reason, then that you got to find a way to change that, like anything you can do to change that. And not drinking, by the way, it's not what we're talking about. Right? If it's conversations with people, it maybe it'll end up being medication. I have no idea. But yeah, no, you. That's not none of us could handle that. So that's what I'm trying to say to you is that if you gave me your feelings, I'd be in your exact situation. Did I mean? Like, if you gave me your feelings or gave them to anybody, we'd all be right where you are. So yeah, yeah. So it's like it would be like blaming a person with a broken leg for not being able to run a race. Right? You're, you're struggling with the things you're struggling with. Because, you know, there's a part of you that's not doing what it's supposed to do or it sounds like it's doing it too much to be perfectly honest. Like you're getting way more than you need of like concern for other people and and the idea of like drilling down on problems and thinking about things like I've never once I've spoken to my mom a million times in my life and and not once in one of those conversations have I ever thought like oh, here her her needs in this I'm gonna blow up my life because of it like I see my mom's needs but I see it at a at what I would consider to be a healthy level. And there struggles My mom has in her life that I can't help her with. And they don't make me feel bad about myself.

Anonymous Speaker 1:24:46
Oh, hold on me.

Scott Benner 1:24:48
I know you're there. Okay.

Yes. Don't go anywhere. I know why I can't hear you. I just I'm having trouble getting it back. Okay, one second. I'm gonna, Okay, I'm gonna hang up and call you right back.

Anonymous Speaker 1:25:08
It was for an art education class. And we created like, we painted individual feathers and created that wings. It's

Scott Benner 1:25:17
really pretty. I'm sorry, we're recording again, we're just a small glitch for a second. But I was talking to the person you're hearing about something in their, in their profile picture. It's really pretty. No, people never get to know what it is. that's their problem. Okay, so it was a weird place for there to be a technical problem. But I need to know, I, you know, I'd like to know where you're at before we say goodbye. So what do you think you're like? What do you think? Because I think if you go start thinking about it, your your beer, unpleasant thoughts are going to overwhelm the clarity you have right now. Is that right?

Anonymous Speaker 1:25:57
Yeah, I'm extremely anxious right now.

Scott Benner 1:26:01
Okay. Because of the idea of doing something. Yes, yeah. So listen, do

Anonymous Speaker 1:26:09
one, if it's talking to you,

Scott Benner 1:26:11
again. You know, I'm not gonna force you to do anything you can do absolutely. Whatever you want. No one's gonna make you do anything. So I'm just telling you, it's an option. And if you want to take that option, it's there. And I'm happy to help you. And any way I can. And if you don't want that option, then that's cool, too. You know, I just think I think it's important to know that there's probably a good path out there for you. And, you know, I think you need somebody to help you find it, because you're having trouble finding it on your own. That's all. Okay, anything you want to say? Are you good?

Anonymous Speaker 1:26:54
I am okay.

Scott Benner 1:26:58
With this boy, you're talking about? He? Do you guys live together? Yes. How much of what you just told me this he know.

Anonymous Speaker 1:27:10
He everything but how I feel currently? Like all the thoughts, probably in the last

year.

Scott Benner 1:27:25
So does he think you're in a good place right now that you're not in?

Anonymous Speaker 1:27:29
And I think he knows I'm not

where I should be. But not how deep it goes.

Scott Benner 1:27:38
Gotcha. Do you think he could be the person you talk to? No, you don't want to is that a part of you, you don't want him to see because of your, your relationship.

Anonymous Speaker 1:27:53
He is completely opposite of me in the sense that I am very outgoing, and opinionated. And I wear my heart on my sleeve. And I like, with him, he knows my feelings every moment of the day. And I can he's completely opposite, he won't talk about his feelings to me. Or if I open up, he just kind of like, gives me a hug, because he doesn't know what to do.

Scott Benner 1:28:34
Yeah, well, your situation is unique. It's hard to know what to do. That's for certain. But I don't think that you need somebody to do something, I think you need to keep talking it through. I think that's sort of like the, the key is for you to continue to like, let the pressure out. Do you know what I mean? Like, like, so that you you don't turn into a, you know, a steam pot that just pops its lid, you got to just keep letting it out. And if it's not him, like, I don't know, like, you know, if this is the odd psychological parallel to not wanting to poop with the door open in front of your, you know, your boyfriend, is just some stuff about yourself that you would be hard to share, I would get that I would 100% understand that. But that then again, makes it even more important for you to, you know, to find another person to talk to because right now, what you're describing, is, you just, you know, you're standing on thin ice and it's going to get warm at some point. So, you know, you can't, you're not going to be able to keep the ball up in the air of pretending you're okay. And painting a picture for him that he wants this that you think he wants to see which by the way, I don't know that he wants to see that picture. Like maybe he really wants to know what's happening to you. And you know, that's up to you about whether or not you can show it to him. But maybe if you spoke to someone else you could get to a point Where you wouldn't be able to share to them? Like, how cool would it be to come to them and say, Listen, I had trouble sharing this with you. But I spoke to a doctor, I've been talking to them for, you know, six months, I am in a different place right now. And I want you to know that, you know, I'm good. And in the past when you thought I was, I might not have been as good as you thought. Like there's, you know, a lot of ways to traverse this. But listen, not on this level, but I've been married a really long time. And what I can tell you is that not saying something never ends? Well. Yeah, you know,

Anonymous Speaker 1:30:32
yeah. And from, like, my diabetes standpoint, he takes better care of me, than I take care of myself. I mean, he, because

Scott Benner 1:30:47
he understands that,

Anonymous Speaker 1:30:48
yes, and he, like, he wants to go to my doctor's appointments with me, and understand as much as he can. And I mean, there are more times than I can count, when I've been passed out from drinking or whatever. And he changes my pump knows how, like, gives me a shot, because, or whatever.

Scott Benner 1:31:16
So then Aren't you describing a person who would be willing to help you with an issue? Like the one you have?

That feel different? Because it's in your it's, it's your brain? Is that white? feels different? Yeah, yeah. It's not it's there's no difference. There really isn't. There's, there's no difference between what you're going through. And, like I said, a person with a broken leg not being able to run a race or a person who has a pancreas that doesn't work, not being able to, you know, make their food go through their system properly. There's, there's no different. It's a part of your body that's not doing what it's supposed to do. It's creating a deficit that needs attention. And when you give it that attention, look what happens. Look, what happened, your one seat when you gave your diabetes, that attention? You know what I mean? Like, like, I think you just need to do that for this. I mean, he sounds like a really decent guy. You know, I'd hate to see you hide something from him for so long that he felt like he was being kept in the dark. Like, I think it sounds like he wants to be in this with you. That's hard to find, you should lean into that if you can.

Anonymous Speaker 1:32:33
Hi, I'm trying. I know you are,

Scott Benner 1:32:35
I think you're doing a really good job. By the way, you also have to give yourself credit for reaching out to anybody, you really did reach out to me. Like that's a thing you did. And it worked out great for you.

Anonymous Speaker 1:32:48
Well, since we have talked,

every Well, my life is full of just me thinking or like lately, just me thinking. And I don't know, several times a day, I'd be like, just think to myself, like, this is a mistake. I have nothing to say. I don't know it, like, just all of these negative things. Yeah. And then I was like, Oh, my gosh,

Scott Benner 1:33:16
I just need to cancel it. You but you, are you happy You didn't?

Anonymous Speaker 1:33:23
In tomorrow, when I think back, I'll be happy that I didn't. But right now I'm very like, on edge.

Scott Benner 1:33:34
You have to you have to believe that you're being lied to by your brain sometimes. And I don't know if that's something that you can cognitively do or not. But, you know, that the the the thoughts you're getting are not matching what's happening. You know what I mean? Like, it's, you're, you're, you're kind of being lied to by your feelings sometimes. And, and it sucks because you, you know, they're not coming from, you know, they're not coming from Amazon. You can't just refuse the package. Like it's coming right through and you're you're feeling it no matter what. And I, I think that what I just said is probably completely unreasonable to expect for you to stop. But I think you I think you just owe it to yourself to look beyond a guy who does a podcast or a 24 year old girl who's you know, been struggling with it. Like you don't know, you know, you don't have the answer. If you had the answer. you'd actually be a psychiatrist. yet. I mean, if I had the answer, I could be charging like $400 an hour to have this conversation. So it's not me either. But the one thing I can be 100% certain about is that your feelings are lying to you. And you need to go talk to somebody who can help you stay clear about that and move you in a better direction. When you're not able to help yourself. I think that's like flat out. The only thing But we've really talked about it that that, that makes sense to me. 100%. And I think you agree with me. Yes. Right. So before your thoughts lie to you involve another person in your life in this decision and get them to help you find someone so that when you want to stop looking, it doesn't happen. Like that. You know what I mean? Like, you gotta you gotta you never, ever heard like, the idea of like, you got to tell people, you're on a diet. So you can't like quit, like, you need to like, take this clarity you have right now find a person. And whether it's your, it's your boyfriend, or it's somebody else and tell them look, I want to I want to go take this step. I need you to help me get to it, because I might, I might sabotage myself before I get to this appointment. And in the meantime, I will hold up my end of the bargain by not ending my own life. Okay, I promise. Hundred percent. Okay, you can trust me. Definitely not doing that. Okay. Yeah, I mean, listen, I bet there's too many bathrooms to cleans. I got laundry to do, I gotta put this podcast up, I sold ads to the end of the year. I have to put the podcast up. I already spent money. You know, so I already sent that money to my son's college. And I and and that's it, like, I think small digestible steps, short goals. You know, lean into this guy who sounds terrific. And, and and let them know, let them know that they're going to be times where you're going to be clear. And they're going to be times where, you know, what you think is depression is going to stop you from, you know, falling what you intellectually know to be right. And that you need to get past that. I think there's a way for you, I really do. Blow is if you can't pull Time will tell. See, right away, you're negative there. There's and see. And so now being serious. There's nothing lost with just, you know, hoping for hope sake right there. But, you know, enough has happened to you that you're thinking Oh, it's, it's more likely This is gonna go wrong. And it's gonna go right, buddy, you know, you can try to be upbeat if you want. But, uh, you know, little kids don't have a place to sleep. And I'm depressed. And you might be right. But that doesn't make me wrong.

Unknown Speaker 1:37:32
Yeah, you know,

Scott Benner 1:37:36
I gotta tell you something. I have never spoken to somebody for 90 minutes before and wanted to tell them that I love them. But I, I, I feel like I would like to say that to you. I love you. I am sure there are other people in your life who love you a lot more than I do. And, and so I think that I think you got to go find those people. You know what I mean? And stay around them. Okay, so now you've told somebody else empathic about your life. So now I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna keep you in my heart while we're talking. All right, okay. I don't think stop recording.

I want you all to know that I did keep in touch with this young lady. And we've been talking now for a couple of months. And she's doing much, much better. She'll be back on the show at some point to tell you how. But I think it would be unfair for you to leave here not knowing that she talked to her doctor is seeing a therapist has found medication that is helping her. And honestly, when I spoke to her yesterday, I double check to make sure that it was okay to share this with you. She felt like a completely different person today. She'll come back on at some point and tell you how that'll happen. But for now, I didn't want you to leave without knowing that. I know we've been here for a while but I appreciate the sponsors. They bring this kind of content trust me when I tell you that not every organization and company would put their name on an episode about depression and self harm. If you're looking for an insulin pump, a glucose monitor an organization to stand up for or new blood glucose meter. You can check out touched by type one at touched by type one.org. It's an organization dedicated to helping people living with type one to live better, healthier, happier lives, touched by type one.org. And if you'd love to see the data that we see through Arden's Dexcom g six continuous glucose monitor dexcom.com forward slash juice box. Find out what direction and speed your blood sugar is moving. Share your information with a loved one or friend through the cloud. Get back to the Information about how foods impacting you, that will allow you to make a better decision with insulin next time. Those of you who are looking for a new insulin pump, or want to start using one today, you just have to check out the Omni pod tubeless insulin pump tubeless is the really amazing part. But equally cool is that on the pod, we'll send you a free, no obligation demo of the Omni pod directly to your door. This way you can try it on, decide for yourself what you think you don't have to take my word for it or anyone else's, my Omni pod.com forward slash juicebox. And if you go to Contour Next one.com. Today, you may be eligible for an absolutely free blood glucose meter. The blood glucose meter that Arden uses right now, the blood glucose meter that I find to be more usable, friendly, and accurate than any pardon has ever used in our entire time with Type One Diabetes. You can find these links right here in your podcast player, or at Juicebox podcast.com. When I say links, I mean of course, on the pod Dexcom touched by type one, the Contour Next One blood glucose meter, as well as the phone number for the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline and the self harm Crisis Text Line. When the person you heard today on the podcast sent me an email, I didn't know them. I didn't know what I was about to find. All I knew is that she seemed like she needed help. And I did not have the heart to ignore her. There will be somebody in your life that will help you to a friend, a neighbor, coworker, family member, somebody. And if none of those people are available to you. That's cool. Crisis Text Line can help the Suicide Prevention hotline can help. There is someone out there who not only understands what you're going through, but can show you the path back. It happened for her. Hi, I'm sorry, I can't use her name, but it happened for her. It could happen for you. You're never as alone as you think you are. Thanks so much to everyone who listens and supports the show shares it online. And of course, the sponsors for making all this possible. My family for allowing me to do this. I am very emotional today. Having listened back to this episode during editing just reminded myself how far that today's guest has come in such a short amount of time. halfway into this episode, I thought I made a mistake. I don't know what I'm doing. I shouldn't be involved in this. But then I realized just just need somebody to talk to who can help her get to where she needs to go. That's all I did. She was just a little lost and needed to find our way back. And she's doing that. It's very exciting. I'm gonna go now want to remind y'all to be kind to each other. Wash your hands and take care

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