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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello everyone and welcome to Episode 244 of the Juicebox Podcast. Today's episode was going to be called a number of different things. I almost called it jelly babies. There was a moment when I really considered making it. Kiwi in Australia. And for a hot second I thought this episode is definitely going to be called sensitive we soul. I was so close to sensitive weasel when I decided to name it instead of bushwhacking with Justin. I greatly look forward to all of you complain to me later that the titles have nothing to do with the episodes. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by Dexcom dancing for diabetes, and Omni pod, please go to dexcom.com forward slash juicebox or dancing the number four diabetes.com to find out more. There's of course also links in your show notes right there in your podcast player. And Juicebox podcast.com.

Justin Saunders 1:08
All right. So my name is Justin Saunders. I'm a New Zealand diabetic currently living with my family in Australia. Being a diabetic since 2011. A light starter Hello to you now. I am 41

Scott Benner 1:26
not too late. I've heard later. But that's a definitely was probably a surprise, I would imagine.

Justin Saunders 1:33
very much a surprise Yes, very much a surprise.

Scott Benner 1:36
Any background in your family at all or anything.

Unknown Speaker 1:41
Please remember that nothing you

Scott Benner 1:42
hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise. And always consult a physician before making any changes to a health care plan or becoming bold with insulin.

Justin Saunders 1:59
I think I've got a couple of family members that are diabetics, but it's never been, you know, it's always we think they were, but we don't really know what type of diabetes they had. And my mum's got a couple of autoimmune conditions as well.

Scott Benner 2:13
So that's very common.

Justin Saunders 2:16
Yeah, I just managed to get the diabetes version of the autoimmune rather than the other things that she's got going on.

Scott Benner 2:23
Who made out better you or your mom? Um, no,

Justin Saunders 2:25
she's got that little logo. Okay, didn't pigment and she's got thyroid issues. So currently, for me, it's just straight diabetes. And

Scott Benner 2:36
my wife and my daughter have the thyroid and it's it sucks. So although I might I might coin flip the video Lago for the type one that doesn't sound too bad. You said New Zealand or living with their family in Australia, originally from Australia? No, no,

Justin Saunders 2:55
I'm born and bred in New Zealand.

Scott Benner 2:56
So your family moved to Australia.

Justin Saunders 2:59
I married a an Australian girl. Ah, okay, now we're getting a battle even 11 years ago. And here's see some. So obviously her family's in Australia. So we moved back two years ago to be closer to the icy ice. I see news, I think in New Zealand with me.

Scott Benner 3:17
Now it's your turn.

Justin Saunders 3:19
Yep, exactly.

Scott Benner 3:20
Do you miss home? Or are you enjoying Australia.

Justin Saunders 3:24
Now I do really miss home. very much a home boy. But it's been a great move. For our kids, at least my wife, she's done really well in her career. We shifted on to a very small island and Sydney. And the only way on and offered is by boat. So the boys just wander. Now it's like in the old days, you don't get worried about them getting picked up by anybody or anything exciting like that. So we just allow them to wander and play with their friends. Really?

Scott Benner 4:00
How many people live on the island?

Justin Saunders 4:04
good Christian. The Christian lots of people asked and I don't actually know the answer, but it'd be less than 1000

Scott Benner 4:12
I was gonna say is a thousands 10s of that it's less than 1000 people. So even if someone did snatch your children, it would probably only take you about seven hours to figure out who happened.

Justin Saunders 4:21
Yeah, pretty bad.

Scott Benner 4:22
That really sounds like that sounds like a wonderful throwback. It really must feel like it's 1950 I guess we can do something like that.

Justin Saunders 4:32
Yeah, it's really good. I mean, the only way the kids can get off is if they jump on the theory or jump on someone else's boat. And mom would like to think our boys are smart enough to you know, not do that with strangers, but remains to be seen, I

Scott Benner 4:48
suppose. How old are they?

Justin Saunders 4:51
They're one two and five on Thursday. And then we've got a seven and a 10 year old

Scott Benner 4:59
that's really cool. Yeah. Well listen, you'll find out how smart they are pretty soon.

Justin Saunders 5:03
Yeah. Well, they haven't let us down so far.

Scott Benner 5:07
That's the name of your children's book. You haven't let us down so far.

Justin Saunders 5:13
Good one, I'll make a note of that. Yeah.

Scott Benner 5:15
I mean, if you ever writing it, I'll take a small credit, it's fine. So okay, so you move, it sounds like you move back isn't you know, your wife gave you some time in New Zealand, you came back to Australia. She's got business prospects there. You were diagnosed probably about four years into your marriage. So can you tell me what that was? Like? A little bit? Like, what was it like to to? I guess, Tell me your story. I guess, how did you figure out you had type one and, and walk me through that a little bit?

Justin Saunders 5:41
Well, I was both quite lucky. And that I was working as a, what we call a New Zealand and intensive care paramedic. And I went out for the wife and I went out to hang out with some friends made a really sweet dessert. and ate that the next morning, got up at four o'clock or whatever it was to go to work fell off. And so jumped into the back of the ambulance and just took a blood sugar. It came back at 11.5. I'm not sure what that is. And Americans speak but it's, you know, it's it's at the higher end of normal. And after eight hours of not having anything sweet. It was. That's a bit bizarre. So of course, I ended up going to the doctor A couple of days later, he did all the tests, and back and said, is a high chance You are so he sent me to an endocrinologist who did the antibody blood test and a couple other things and came back and said, you're you're type one diabetic, obviously in the honeymoon period. And he predicted within five years, I'd be full blown diabetic and I don't think I'm quite there yet.

Scott Benner 6:57
Interesting, because I just pulled up the conversion chart. And 7.5 is 135 it they definitely say if you have a fasting blood sugar, I've always heard over 130 or I guess in your situation about over one about over seven that that was type one. But so how so you're you feel like you're still honeymooning now, even this many years later.

Justin Saunders 7:20
Yeah, to an extent it is. I think things are slowly now catching up with me. But like, depending on if I have a very high carb meal. I don't know what what it would be. But I would probably take between seven and May, maybe 10 units, but 10 units would be very generous for me, okay, if I went kind of more salad and made low carb, then I'd only be looking at like two or three units. And I feel that's probably a little bit on the lowest side of what a full blown diabetic would take. And it's only really been in the last two or three months, maybe maybe a little bit longer that I've actually upped my lenses. And I'm now currently sitting on six units of lenses at night before I go to bed.

Scott Benner 8:06
And that's what was gonna be my next question. How do you manage so you're injecting?

Justin Saunders 8:11
Yep. Okay, I am

Scott Benner 8:12
and you have a glucose monitor? I do. Yep. Which which do you have you don't I I think I looked on your Instagram is that the Libra

Justin Saunders 8:23
I use useful. I used to use the Libra quite a bit but I haven't used it since Christmas. I sorry, no scratch that. I've used one census and Christmas but they the last two or three have had have actually become quite an accurate. Okay. And they were kind of maybe one and a half to millimole difference between a finger stick and what the Libra was saying. And I had the meow meow or however it's pronounced but that died on me so I've just gone naturals I suppose you could call it

Scott Benner 9:02
and declar while Dexcom is not available in Australia, is it

Justin Saunders 9:05
the jif fibers jif I believe g six isn't but it's really, really expensive and we don't get insurance coverage here for

Scott Benner 9:16
Okay. Well that makes sense. Um

Justin Saunders 9:21
it's about I have worked it all out and if you did it to you know the letter of the law seven days or whatever the G fibers it was something like four and a half thousand dollars a year for the Dexcom system or the Libra a if you work it out, it was two and a half I think

Scott Benner 9:41
okay. And and you were saying it could have been off by as much as as two. Mmm, that's that's that for people listening in America and other places. That's the difference between like a 126 and a 162 blood sugar. That would be that would be two. Okay, so that's significant. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. But you found. So you found this inaccuracy, which I guess led you away to something else. And then you mentioned something that I'm not even aware of, I guess something that's available there. That's a glucose monitor.

Justin Saunders 10:14
I'd say. It's no, it's a, it's just a transmitter. So it's a Bluetooth transmitter that sits on top of the Libra sensor. And then it transmits via Bluetooth to your phone. So it becomes a proper CGM.

Scott Benner 10:32
And is that like an aftermarket? It's not sold by the company, is it?

Justin Saunders 10:35
Not? Now, it's aftermarket aftermarket.

Scott Benner 10:37
And then that failed on you? I say, how

Justin Saunders 10:39
are you? When it works? It works really well.

Scott Benner 10:42
People have said that about me when I work, I work really.

Unknown Speaker 10:46
So

Scott Benner 10:48
So tell me something. So you've had glucose sensing technology that wasn't continuous? You've had it that was continuous. And now you don't have it at all? Do you have a preference? Or are you using such a little amount of insulin? It's not really causing you a problem yet?

Unknown Speaker 11:06
Um,

Justin Saunders 11:06
I depends on where I'm at, or no, depends on where I'm at. Really, okay. I'm kind of enjoying not having access to all that data. Because I was starting to feel a bit overwhelmed by it. And now it's just a bit too much. I'm trying to get a new meow meow thing. I'm trying to get in contact with them to say this one's broken within the year, but their customer service isn't very good. So if I could get a new one of those, I probably would use it. But the center back on again. But yeah, Libra Center here in Australia is $92 50 for two weeks, but it's also quite expensive.

Scott Benner 11:50
Yeah, sure. No, I don't think people appreciate that. Well, I mean, I guess you do, I don't. I have insurance, right? So I know, my stuffs covered. It doesn't cost us a bunch of money. And I don't spend a lot of time thinking, what would I pay for this if it was cash, but even like you said, even $100 for every two weeks is successive, it's an extra cost that you very well may not have. Now, if your wife worked a little harder, because you didn't work, you didn't go home for her job. So if, if she would just break her butt a little more for you. I don't know, I'm just joking. So so when you reached out to me, initially, you sort of alluded to not maybe taking as good care of yourself, as you maybe Wish you did at some point was that prior to diabetes, or something that did you mean, specifically with diabetes after your diagnosis,

Justin Saunders 12:41
that's more specific to diabetes.

Scott Benner 12:46
I say a word you repeat it in your mind so that you don't forget dancing, the number for diabetes.com I should go to dancing for diabetes.com. After that, I'll check out their Instagram page, and maybe even see what they're doing on Facebook. Dancing for diabetes.com, that's dancing number four diabetes.com. So when you reached out to me, you sort of alluded to not maybe taking as good care of yourself, as you maybe Wish you did at some point.

Justin Saunders 13:22
I don't know how your daughter goes. But with me, I kind of fluctuate depending on what's going on in my life, I can, you know, be low carb using very little insulin or insulin during exercise. And then a couple of months down the track, something happens and I'm eating high carb using very little insulin and

Scott Benner 13:41
you know, sitting around home watching TV and your but your blood sugar rises. And, and so it depends. And it's interesting too, because I eat very, in specifically as well. Like, I'll go on a kick with something and have it for weeks. And then I look up and I realized I have an eight minute and six months. And you know, back and forth. And you're really talking about like from going to extremes, you know, taking like really kind of quality care of yourself to all of a sudden being like, hey, a cupcake. What if I had three of them? Yes. Okay. And so that's Um, so you don't have any trouble when you're doing it. And by doing it, I mean, like, when you're being more careful with your with your intake. You don't have trouble with it, but then all of a sudden you do.

Justin Saunders 14:27
Yeah, I just, you know, life just gets in the way and you'll sit down and have a bag of chips. No,

Scott Benner 14:33
no, no, I can. No, I completely understand that. We were We were grocery shopping this evening. And I am so I had to have a blood test done and it showed some numbers. And the doctor said to me, hey, it's possible. You might be allergic to these couple things. But I'd like to find out by having you avoid them for six weeks and then retake the blood test. And I was like, Okay, I said, What do you mean allergic and he's like this tiny allergen too. Just two things, wheat and corn. Well, Justin wheat and corn is pretty much in everything.

Unknown Speaker 15:07
So he basically

Scott Benner 15:08
he basically said, you have a tiny allergy to food and and I was like, Okay, well, you know, I want to know if that's true or not and you know, this kind of fast for six weeks will tell me. And we were at the grocery store today walking around and I just was getting hungrier and hungrier for things I didn't even want I there's something I looked at, I don't even know if I liked and I thought I would eat that right now. And, and I don't have the kind of it's funny, I'm doing the fast. So obviously, I have all the willpower on the road, I'm three weeks into it. And I'm I'm fine. I haven't had bread I haven't had, you know, anything with corn in it, which is extensive a potato chip, which God love you who would want a potato chip, and you know, like, and all this stuff. So I don't have any trouble with the with it. But the minute the six weeks are over, I'm fairly certain. I'm going to eat a loaf of bread by myself. If these blood tests Don't show me that I shouldn't be. And I do wonder that about myself, like, How can I be like in one space and then go to another one? It sounds like a very similar thing happens to you. I'm sure it happens to a lot of people because it's easy, right? Like it's Yeah, so much. so much stuff I looked at tonight, it was the idea that I wouldn't have to cook it, prepare it. It was just there. It was like in a bag or in a container. And I thought like how easy that is, I could just do that right now. And, and you know, this other thing, socks.

Justin Saunders 16:33
It's comfort food as well. You know, I grew up in New Zealand and New Zealand, it's fish and chips. It's what you had on a Friday night. That's what you had on the weekend. And now, Chip. I find it very hard to resist chips when they're sitting there. I know I shouldn't eat them because they destroy my blood sugars. And it normally arrived before I even think of Pre-Bolus thing anything. So they're there. So you eat them. And then you suffer for the next three hours because your blood sugar is too high or and you feel terrible. You know, you're bloated, because you've just eaten a whole lot of

Scott Benner 17:06
carbs. I wonder how much of that as you're saying it is being diagnosed as an adult like having? I mean, you had 33 years, right? Where you didn't think twice about anything like that. So I want I wonder if it is that like I, you know, don't get me wrong. Arden doesn't you know, every time Arden goes to eat, she's not like, Hey, Dad, I'm thinking of eating something. So we should probably Pre-Bolus now 20 minutes ahead of time, like, you know, we all kind of keep track of that, you know, her I my wife, we all kind of pay attention to it. And so everybody's helping out. But we've always thought this way. I mean, so as long as I can remember we thought this way, but you you live the whole life not thinking like that.

Justin Saunders 17:49
Yeah, well, when I was when I was first diagnosed, I did spend some time kind of thinking that being diagnosed as an adult is probably harder to adjust to them being diagnosed as a child. But my thought process has changed over the years, because, yes, now I've developed, I've developed 30 odd years worth of eating habits and exercise habits and all the other habits good and bad. But then when you're diagnosed as a child, you've then got to grow up. And, you know, you get two teenage years, the hormones kick in, and your friends kick in, and you've got all that pressure as well. So my thought process has now developed to I don't think there is a good time to get Tai Beatty,

Scott Benner 18:38
I was gonna say there's never a good time to get

Justin Saunders 18:42
like, anytime is better than the other. Right? I think it's just all

Scott Benner 18:47
positives and negatives to each kind of like age range.

Unknown Speaker 18:50
There is Yeah, there are you know,

Scott Benner 18:52
I actually I interviewed somebody that was diagnosed and they're 16 ones. And they kind of spoke about, you know, you've been through so much of your life already. Like, eating was almost a little boring. At some points, it was kind of easy just to make sure what they ate because they weren't thrilled to be eating all the time to begin with. And I actually have to tell you as I approach 50 I'm starting to think about food like that, like it's hard to get excited anymore. You know, you said fish and chips with sounded amazing when you said it but at the same time. At what point do you think you have it and you just go You know what, that was the last time I've had this one too many times. And it makes me think of my my buddy's grandmother who lived into her 90s and we went visitor This is 20 years ago. She's been dead for, you know, a quarter of a century. But we went to visit her one day at her place. And she is in her 90s sucking down cigarettes with one hand and eaten pound cake with. Yep. And she said she drank tea smoke cigarettes in a pound cake. She didn't consume anything else and we walked out of there and I said to my friend, I was like what? She'll be dead in three weeks. He goes he's been eating like that for 10 years. That's like okay, and no Kidman she went on for a good one. long times though cigarettes and pancake, so, yeah, he just didn't have a taste for anything else at that point in our life. And and I do wonder if maybe that doesn't help. And then you know, you'll hear people make the argument, well, if you're diagnosed sooner, you don't really know any better. So there's nothing to miss. And if you're an adult, and you should know better, and maybe have a little more control over yourself, it's all BS. It really is. Yeah, in the end, having to say to yourself, I'm going to eat in a half an hour. It's just not fun. Like, like, there's nothing fun about me, there's, there's nothing really good about that. At the same time. As you're talking, what I hear is, you know, if you Pre-Bolus, this would change things for you. Yep, yeah.

Unknown Speaker 20:43
Can you do it?

Scott Benner 20:44
Can you talk a little bit about what it's about that? Whether or not it's a conscious decision on conscious decision, but how that process goes, you know, put me put me in your shoes. an hour before dinner tonight? Where are you at? Like mentally? I mean, are you thinking on diabetes? Or what are you doing?

Justin Saunders 21:05
In generally not? Generally, then I get served up or you know, finished making it and then I go, Oh, that's right, I probably should take some insulin, and diabetes, fishy at the moment isn't something that's right at the front of my mind. I'll take insulin when I'm, when I'm eating or when I make breakfast, I'll take some insulin before I eat it. I have generally have porridge every morning. So that's, for me, that's quite a good trigger, because I'll take insulin as I start preparing the porridge. But pretty much for everything else, or generally just, I don't even think about insulin until the food's there. And then it's like, well, I probably should have done something a bit sooner, sir.

Scott Benner 21:50
Right? And, and do you know what the, like, what the sticking point is for you? Like, why why you don't make that leap? Because you also discussed feeling like hell after your blood sugar is high, and that whole thing? So I mean, listen, I'm not judging you at all. I, I've, you know, looked at a pizza and thought, I should only have one slice of that. And then four slices later, I thought, I've let myself down pretty hardly here. So it's, but I'm maybe digging for myself as much for as for anybody else. And I just didn't know if you had a if you had like a theory about why that happens, or why you don't make an adjustment to it. And and what do you think it would take for you to kind of mindfully make that adjustment?

Justin Saunders 22:38
Just a mindset for me, I think. I think part of my problem is that I thought, the diabetes so early, or what I think was so early, that I've been on the honeymoon, I haven't had to take a huge amount of insulin until recently. So I'm still in that mindset that I'm on my I'm still in the honeymoon, that I don't need to really concentrate on working this thing out. I think I've probably also got some got a little bit of a hangover from getting very grumpy at a public diabetes specialist in New Zealand that kind of destroyed me right at the start of my diabetes career. And it's very been very hard to actually adjust and really start caring about diabetes.

Scott Benner 23:37
What did that person do? And how did it? How did it affect you? Has it happened yet? Is it summertime and you're being active or outside in the heat? Your blood sugar sort of all over the place? And you're blind to what's happening? And you thought, Man, that guy on the podcast? He does, right?

Unknown Speaker 23:57
I check it out. Dexcom.

Scott Benner 23:59
Have you had that moment? Well, luckily, for you know, time is a bad time to start your life with Dexcom. If you're the parent or the Guardian, with a caregiver with a loved one, have a person with Type One Diabetes. With the dexcom share and follow features. You can see their blood sugars remotely. That's what the iPhone and Android. I know. That's exciting. And that's probably enough for you probably like Scott, I don't need to hear any more. I'm gone. I'm doing it. Stop talking about Nope. I have to keep talking direction and speed. Which way is it moving? How fast is it going there? There's a huge difference between an 85 blood sugar that is stable, and an 85 blood sugar that's falling at like five points per minute. Do you want to know what you know you're my 85 and I'm going to stay here are my 85 and I'm going to be 75 in like 10 minutes. I need to know that. Did this food just miss me a little bit By Bolus and then I'm just going to go a little or is my blood sugar shooting up? I need to know. That's how I make good decisions. Those decisions begin with Dexcom dexcom.com, forward slash juice box with links in your show notes, or Juicebox podcast.com. You could be living a completely different life with your diabetes very soon. And it all starts with this decision.

What did that person do?

Justin Saunders 25:32
I was when I was first diagnosed. I, you know, went out, I did all the research, I looked for anything that may have been a cause of why I developed it. And I went out, I read the old Dr. Bernstein book, I read a couple other books, it was all low carb, I was eating really well, feeling really good about it all. And, and then my diabetes nurse educator, suggested that I go to this. Because we we've got a very, very good public health system in New Zealand. And we do have private, and it's we do have a little bit of private health insurance, but it's not nowhere near the extent that America has, okay, so this diabetes nurse educator, she was in the public system, she suggested I go and see this public diabetes consultant at one of the hospitals. And so I did. And the first time I went to see him, he but basically told me that I didn't need to take insulin, and I shouldn't be taking insulin. And that he wanted me my HPA one c wasn't essentially wasn't high enough for him. As I had an HB one C of 37, I think when I first went to see him, and he wanted it up at 48 by the time the last day, the last time I saw him, okay. And he pretty much treated me like the status quo. I think, you know, people in the public health system are more used to seeing the status quo, the the people who really don't, aren't necessarily interested, you know, they, they see the, I don't want to insult or offend anyone, but they speak to where this guy was situated. It was the lowest socio economic area of where we were living. So, you know, you see, they see the worst of the worst, and they see so many people that they kind of develop this. One size fits all mentality, which it shouldn't be. Right, but that's how it is.

Scott Benner 27:45
And so no, he basically looked at you and said, Look, your agency is not high enough for us to be treating you with insulin. So go back to your life. When this gets worse, then we'll tackle it.

Justin Saunders 27:57
That's pretty much I think what he was getting at, yeah.

Scott Benner 27:59
Did you buy into that he

Justin Saunders 28:00
was I not really, I did to an extent I actually did go away. And I went off my rapid acting insulin. But a short time until I went and saw him next mhba once he obviously had come up, and I was still taking Lantus, I was still on the basal insulin, okay. And the next time I saw him, he said, Your HPA one C, I think it was a 940 something 45 or 44 or something. He said I wanted up at 48. So how about you go off your Lantus? I was like, No, this Don't worry. I'm going off my lenses. And

Scott Benner 28:47
oh, sorry. No, you're fine.

Justin Saunders 28:50
Sorry, I just gotta find cook. And yeah, I said, No, there's no way I'm going off my lenses and even threatened me with loss of license and everything because he believed that I was probably having hypo unawareness and having lots of lows when I didn't know and, obviously, I was driving ambulances and things. And rightly, he was concerned that I might have a low while driving and causing an accident. I mean, that's a genuine concern. Okay. But he threatened to take away my livelihood by reporting me to the licensing authority in New Zealand. I see. So that pretty much destroyed me then and there. I'm a sensitive we sold I think so I went out and had a big, massive amount of ice cream.

Scott Benner 29:38
That sounds like a good idea. Listen, I think

Justin Saunders 29:41
so. Yeah. destroyed, destroyed my blood sugar some more. And yeah, and then I was the last time he saw him, I think three times. Yeah. And the last time I saw him, I went back and we had a short question and I just said look, the only reason I came to that I was telling you, I won't be back to see you again because you blackmailed me last time I was here. Yeah. And he didn't believe that he had. But, you know,

Scott Benner 30:08
this is what it is. So while you're talking, and I'm listening, I also pulled up a chart so that people can kind of understand what you were saying about your a one C. So tell me again, you went and saw him the first time. And where was your a Wednesday yet?

Justin Saunders 30:23
I think it was. Well, it was it was below 40. Anyway,

Scott Benner 30:27
below for sure. So between so for so for people in America and other parts of the of the world, between a five and a six. So see, you had a you had just probably on the verge of a, you know, creeping up a one C. And where did he tell you he wanted it that

Justin Saunders 30:47
he wanted it? At least at 48?

Scott Benner 30:50
Which is six and a half? Yeah, and well beyond diabetic. So and so he thought you were having an ID you feel like you were having any hypose that you didn't know about?

Justin Saunders 31:03
But no, no. And I was the seven years that I've been diagnosed as a diabetic of of head hypose. Obviously, I've never had anything that I haven't been able to deal with. And I've always woken up in the morning, you know, I've never had my wife never had to jab me with glucagon or anything like that. So I'm pretty sure that that I wasn't having what he was concerned about. Right? That's really it. And if I was I knew how to

Scott Benner 31:36
handle it. Just like everybody else needs to be able to do. Yeah, it's a strange story is that? Jeez, and now that you're okay, so. So I want to try to put myself in your place if I can. So you, you have a strange diagnosis to begin with? Because it's not like you have full blown oh my gosh, hurry up and get insulin, you have times when you don't need very much insulin times when you need a little more. Never a ton. I mean, you talked about 10 units being a lot. And would you mind sharing with me your weight?

Justin Saunders 32:08
Currently, I'm at three kgs on 200 and 190 pounds or something? Okay,

Scott Benner 32:15
so you're, you're an average sized person. I mean, unless you're three feet tall. And so because if you were three feet tall, 180 pounds, I don't think that would be right. But I think that your your average sized person have an average weight, right? And you're using 10 units, my daughter weighs 126 pounds, and she'll use 10 units for a meal. So yeah, so you still are not using a ton of incent or you're eating a little lower carb at times?

Justin Saunders 32:46
Well, if I was to do 10 units, I mean that I'd be probably down on one, maybe two hands that I've actually done 10 units for a meal. What kind of amount? Obviously, I don't always get it right. But it would be probably a meal of fish and chips that I would consider giving myself 10 units.

Scott Benner 33:03
Okay, so like, batter? Plus protein plus oil plus a potato, you know, a star. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 33:09
Yeah,

Scott Benner 33:10
I mean, that's what I'm talking about with my daughter as well like a lot of carbs like that she could use 10 units for that's really, your story's insane. Like I'm having a bit of a trouble wrapping my head around it to figure out where to go next. But I'm enjoying this so so we're gonna feel our way through this. When you emailed me now, it's February now, I'm obviously not great at getting these things scheduled to you email. he emailed me in August, so seven months ago, but it but seven months ago, you said that you had found the podcast and the kind of giving you maybe a jumpstart. Did that last for you? Where are you? Where are you right now? I guess.

Justin Saunders 33:52
Um, it probably hasn't lasted as well as it was then. But yeah, I mean, it's really made me aware of Pre-Bolus thing of exercise and now Pre-Bolus thing is probably the big one because it's not something that I was ever bought.

Scott Benner 34:13
Sure. A lot of people

Justin Saunders 34:16
it was really it was really your podcast that actually reminded me or made me have any real thoughts about Pre-Bolus and I think I'd heard stuff about it previously, but it was really listening to your podcast and what everyone else is and the way that you deal with your daughter's diabetes that that really kind of made me think about it and has made me keep thinking about it. I'm not very good at it. But But I do you know, I do. Think about it when I'm eating or when I'm preparing meal.

Scott Benner 34:50
Let me ask you this. So when you when you think about it, like and you're actually accomplishing it when you when you don't just think about it, but you do it you put Your insulin and before you eat, are you avoiding your spikes altogether, you're having them smaller, what were you able to accomplish?

Justin Saunders 35:09
I'm kind of fluctuated, it was a bit of everything really depended on what I ate. Like, as I said, most mornings, I'll have porridge, that will be porridge with a bit of like blueberries with yogurt, with some mix seeds and stuff on top. So it's reasonably kabhi meal, right. And some days, I can give myself for that I can give myself Pre-Bolus, if I inject before I even start preparing it. So it takes about 15 minutes for it to be ready to eat, right? If I Pre-Bolus, I can sometimes get away with about five units of insulin. And it will keep the spike down. Sometimes it even doesn't really like much at all. Okay. But then some days, I can prepare the exact same meal, I can take the influence that pretty much the exact same time and my blood sugars will just spike up jumps.

Scott Benner 36:08
And when you have we know we're good, I'm sorry.

Justin Saunders 36:11
When I when I say spike. And when I say spike, it's you know, it might get up to 10 or 11. Which is I don't know what that is and the conversion but

Scott Benner 36:25
hundred 995 200 like in that space? Yeah.

Justin Saunders 36:28
If I'm unlucky, it might get up that high.

Scott Benner 36:31
And that's so it's not a crazy spike, by the way for a meal like that. Is that it now that would that? Would that number persist for hours? Or would you hit it and come back again,

Justin Saunders 36:44
I'm in sort of whether I'm wearing a sensor or not. If I'm not wearing a sensor, then I generally forget to test half an hour after I eat. I'm not a very disciplined diabetic. But if I'm wearing a sensor and I see it going up, then I definitely will hurt it. As soon as I can. That's generally after after an hour. I'll give myself another one or two units and see what happens. But yeah, if I'm not wearing a sensor, um, you know,

Scott Benner 37:15
again, okay, so so here's so here's an interesting question, because you're gonna melt two things that you said together now. So you said earlier that you're a little happy not to have the sensor technology right now, because you felt overwhelmed by it? Did you mean did you mean that it was constantly taking up your time and your your thoughts? Or did you mean that it was reminding you to do the thing that you kind of wanted to forget to do?

Justin Saunders 37:41
I think it was just reminder, maybe just reminding me that it was there. Or, you know, you just get this constant flow, a graph that shows you how good you're doing and shows you how bad you're doing. And it gets a bit depressing if you're not doing very well. Okay. With the ups and downs and, and it's just, yeah, data overload. I do a lot of data work. My actual job. And I think throwing that and on top, at times, just might get a little bit too much for me, just it's just it's too much.

Scott Benner 38:13
So. Okay, so where are you? I'm interested to know like, what, in your perfect world situation if I gave you a magic wand, and I was like Justin, make your own reality? Do you want to be more involved? You want to just do what you're doing and say this is as good as I can do right now. Like, is it somewhere in the middle? Like, what what would you hope for? If you could just make it so

Justin Saunders 38:38
I would prefer to be more involved. I'd like to remember, I need to start setting alarms on my phone that half an hour after eating 50 blood sugars again. Yeah. And I'm just a very unmotivated diabetic.

Scott Benner 38:52
Okay. So I suppose you get the unmotivated diabetic. That's, uh, I'll tell you what if it was 10 years ago, Justin, you had a blog title there. So the blogs are dying Long live the podcast anyway. We have. So if if I said to you, you know, we have 20 minutes left. Would you want to chat more? Or would you want to talk about like concrete ways to make that change for yourself? My daughter Arden's birthday is mere days away, which means she is embarking on her 12th consecutive year of wearing the Omni pod tubeless insulin pump. She got an early birthday present the other day, you know what it was a 5.5 a one C. At this point. There are countless a one season the fives that have all come while wearing the Omni pod. And the only pods available to everybody not just the my daughter. So you know, maybe try it. You don't have to take any big leaps that you can't get back from this isn't a eyes closed off. The cliff situation because Omni pod has a free no obligation demo of their product. That is right. If you go to Miami pod.com, forward slash juicebox Omni pod will send you out a free pod to try on and where, and there's literally no obligation. It's not like now that they've sent it to you, you have to use it. It's not like that you could just try it on and be like, I don't like this. And that could be the end of it. But what if you tried it on in that moment led to 12 consecutive years of happiness for you the way it has for Arden? That's gotta be worth a try, right? I mean, it's free, there's no obligation. And guess what? Omni pod has updated their personal diabetes manager, the little controller that you carry to run the pod dash is available now. So you can decide between the Oji PDM, or the new on the pod dash, it's up to you, you get to choose. Understand what that means. You try out the free, no obligation demo, you decide to move forward with the pod and you get to say to them, Look, you know what, I think I'm gonna take the dash PDM, not the older one, or I'm gonna take the old one, I like it better than the dash or whatever, I have options. isn't everything choice, Miami pod.com forward slash juice box with links in your show notes, or Juicebox podcast.com dash over right now and check it out? If I was you, I'd likely be you. But, but right. But I know that if I was in your situation, I would likely treat it the way you do. Yeah. But because I'm putting them in the situation of taking care of a loved one. I don't feel like I have the luxury to be laxed because it's not me. You know what I mean? Like I can I can treat myself poorly. I can't I couldn't treat them poorly.

Unknown Speaker 41:49
And,

Scott Benner 41:50
and it really is. It's just truth. I think it's a very human thing. I think I you see it all the time with people. I'm telling you, I we just put up a podcast today. Episode 209 went up with a woman named Leah said Type One Diabetes for ever. And never wanted a pump than the minute her son was diagnosed. She thought that kid needs a pump. Yeah, and, and, and, and boom, put a pump on him and then got herself and then got herself one. But for years prior to that just never thought she really needed it. She said she did. And it was all a static, she told me she's like it didn't seem sexy to her to have a pump on. And so she just didn't want to do it. The minute it was about figuring it out, first on, boom, we all have insulin pumps. And so I don't know how a person let alone you puts onus on something that's not in the moment real yet. Because I mean, it'd be easy for me to tell you, you have three great kids. You want to be alive and see him for as long as you can. Like, that's an obvious thing. Right? Right. And you don't not think that everybody understands that I'm you know, we all feel the same way. We've got families, we want to be around for whether we have diabetes or not. We're trying to stay alive as long as we can try to be as healthy as we can for as long as we can. And so my assumption is you love those kids, you've already had that thought. And I've done the same thing. You know, in prior years with my weight, I thought I'd like to be a little thinner, because I want to be around for my kids. Right? And then I don't know what happens. bread with butter is really good. You know, like that. That's sort of an idea. If I'm in front of a steak, I put some bread with it. You know, I have a steak and bread. We'll throw some shrimp on the side. Hey, you know, before you know it, you're having a what I'm assuming is a 1500 car calorie meal with a ton of carbs in it. And you're kind

Justin Saunders 43:43
of like, don't get me Don't get me wrong. I mean, I'm not abusing myself, that's for sure. No, no, no, I ate reasonably healthy. You know, I look after myself. I mean, my last HBO one see that I had was 5.7. So it's, you know, it's back in that range now.

Scott Benner 44:01
And that's amazing. And that goes to what you're saying where you think that you are very slowly? Like is there? There's no world where you don't have type one right that it's some sort of a, like an alternative diagnosis that they're not getting right. You have you had the the protein test and the blood tested to tell you for certain you have type one diabetes. Yeah.

Justin Saunders 44:22
I've had I've had the antibodies is good. Which case but yeah, and and they're there. They Yeah, the endocrinologist Go ahead. And New Zealand was really good. And he ran me through all the tests. And he said, Yep, definitely the I haven't had a C peptide to see what how much insulin I am still producing, if any. But other than that, I think I've had everything that I needed. So yeah, as far as I know. I'm diabetic. You just have a tough pancreas.

Scott Benner 44:51
It isn't given up. That's all.

Justin Saunders 44:54
Yeah. But yeah, yeah. And I think that comes down to the endocrinologist. I had the first one that I had, because my, my GP, he did, I went and saw him first. And he did the glucose fasting test and the tolerance test and a couple other things and came back and said, yes, you diabetic and then he sent me to this endocrinologist and the endocrinologist. Check me out that all the blood tests and stuff and I think my, I think my first HB one C was somewhere in the high 40s. So I set the sevens or something

Unknown Speaker 45:35
here, which is not and

Justin Saunders 45:39
yeah, it's nowhere near existed. I know. I know, when I was in the ambulance service, they always told us between three and a half and seven is normal. For a normal person. That's not excessive at all. But as soon as my HPA one See, I think it hit 52. Whatever that is, and he was He then said, well, let's, let's put you on a little bit of insulin. And I think a lot of doctors don't, or at least in the past, haven't gone down that road, they've just kind of gone well, okay, let's adjust your diet. Let's do this. Let's do that. And insulin was the last thing that they did. Right. And they I believe that there's a lot of research out there that says that it on the insulin faster, and it will help preserve whatever beta cells you've got. And they will either slow their destruction or stop the destruction of whatever you've got left. And I think that's where I've come out on top. Because that I went on rapid acting insulin and Lantus and stuff really early on in the piece.

Scott Benner 46:47
You're in such a, you're such a weird, it's a precipice really like because you said, I'm, again, I'm on this chart. So a 58. One C is right around 6.8. And even, you know, what I'm seeing online is telling me that at 50. It's a suggestion of diabetic diabetes, if you're symptomatic, if you're not symptomatic of diabetes, two tests on separate occasions are needed. Like you're right in that odd space, it just where it's not, it's not quite all. Can I ask you which side you like? Do you hope it stays like this longer? Or do you hope it just, it just goes so it's more predictable?

Justin Saunders 47:25
I would prefer to stay like this, I think because it's cheaper.

Scott Benner 47:29
There you go. Less insulin, less gear, less trouble.

Justin Saunders 47:35
Yeah.

Scott Benner 47:35
So when you talk about like you want to do a better job? Is it like with the idea in your mind that you want to get on a better regimen because you understand that it's probably not going to stay like this forever? Because I think that might be Yeah, I don't know if you need to worry about

Justin Saunders 47:50
that. And more just more understanding of, I just need to do more research and study. I think around more understanding of insulins and how they work, I've been on the same insulin, Lantus and overwrap. And since I was diagnosed, I don't know whether there's anything better out there for me. But that would be something that would be interesting to find out. I don't know what there is in Australia. I've inserted amps in the past. And my biggest fear, not that I probably have to worry about it currently. But if at all, xe does kick off and become full blown. My biggest concern is, obviously here in Australia, we don't have such things as Omni pods at this point in time. So we have have to have the tubes. And I just read a few stories you see around Instagram online, wherever about people waking up with horrible issues, eat ketones and all the rest of it. Because if King a pump, or they pulled out their site, or

Scott Benner 48:55
whatever, and they haven't had insulin for hours and hours, and

Justin Saunders 48:58
yeah, then and then to top it off of both, I think I have a bit of fear of missing out. There's always some new technology on the horizon that if I get a pump now, then it's, you know, four or five years before I can get the next one is going to be something better in the next couple of years. I'm sure. Justin, we've

Scott Benner 49:17
had a lot of really interesting looks into your psyche so far tonight. This is fun. Because I always say like, you know, keep up with technology. You know, when when technology demands that when it when when a great leap is made, move with it. But if it's not a great leap, you know, stick with what works. But you don't want to ever look back and think oh gosh, I'm using something that nobody uses anymore that if somebody was diagnosed today, they would never be given what I have. You don't you don't want to be that far out of it. But it's interesting how you think about that. The idea of like, you'd have like technology envy and not be able to move on. You think that would bother you. Yeah, that's really something I like you a lot just and I'm glad we're doing this. Well, you are I mean, I agree with your assessment that I, you know, I think if I was you, I'd prefer for my pancreas to keep chugging along the way it is for as long as possible. And at the same time, I'm having trouble even imagining how much uncertainty you live with all the time. Because you know what I mean? Because right now you're getting away with like, an injection here a little slow acting insulin, it's not really that big of a deal. Even a spike is 180. For you, which is of course not terrible at all. And yeah, and and, and it's like, you're waiting for the other shoe to drop, like, when is this going to happen? And that's, and it's been going on for a really long time. I mean, honestly has, is that the Do you think that's the tiring part of it at this point, like just waiting?

Justin Saunders 50:50
Not something that I've thought about. And that's a possibility.

Scott Benner 50:55
Just it's just seems to me like, it's something that's, it's right there. It's just over the horizon. It's like, he feels like maybe tomorrow is the day tomorrow, tomorrow. And it just, you just wonder, at least, you know, if you have diabetes, and you need how much you need, you're gonna need insulin on a pretty consistent basis. It's always gonna be that way.

Justin Saunders 51:11
Yeah,

Scott Benner 51:12
it's just it seems doubly unfair. I mean, if that's a if that's a phrase, you know, you shouldn't get you shouldn't get hit. You couldn't get zinc twice with diabetes, like, Hey, you have type one diabetes, like, wait, I'm 33. What are you talking about, though? Isn't that a kid's thing? And then you know, and then you you end up realizing it's not you have it, but you don't need all the insulin, you think and then the guy jerked around, and then you go to a doctor who tells you, you know, forget it, and you just have not had any stability in your diagnosis or your care. Yeah, I would really that would, that would spin me. I wouldn't like that. So I can't imagine you do it either. To be perfectly honest, how, how is your um, how much involvement does your family have with this with you? Do they have any? Or is your wife helpful? Or do you not? Are you not looking forward to be how do you handle that? No,

Justin Saunders 52:06
they don't have a huge amount. I think, other than I think my wife now buries jelly babies or something around a new purse wherever we go. on the off chance. I basically just managed myself. Yeah, it towed off every now and then if I have to sneak away and treat a low because I've taken too much insulin for what I've eaten. But now it's pretty much on me. Yeah.

Scott Benner 52:37
Now, I mean, I wouldn't imagine otherwise, you're at that age where it would be a strange thing to just suddenly. And it's not like you have a ton of like you said, you're not having a lot of lows. You're not you don't need I wouldn't see where you would need a ton of support. But at the same time. I don't know. Like, I don't know if he can put somebody in charge of him like, you know, make make one of those kids, the Pre-Bolus. Kid. Take the oldest one to go look every day, half an hour before dinner. It's your job to Come to daddy and say, hey, it's half an hour.

Justin Saunders 53:09
That's a good idea. Maybe it would be nice if they like you know can be Pre-Bolus and one can be 30 minutes after eating it be nice if they earn their keep a little bit. And by the way, I've looked up jelly baby Bring me my slippers.

Scott Benner 53:23
The little one. I mean, you don't you don't want to put too much on the little one right away. I just looked up jelly babies because they didn't know what they are. And they seem like gummy bears covered in powdered sugar without the granular sugar on top of it.

Justin Saunders 53:37
Well, it basically just yummy beers. My wife's carrying around. Oh, good. Yeah, but we wisdom, that transmitter thing that I had, it also had a an app on my phone that I could. My wife had the same app on her phone so she could follow because one of the concerns that I did have about living on an island is that there's no way to get off the island except by boat. And if something was to happen while I was at home, I had a significant low. I was here but with the kids because my wife, she's a nurse. So she was working night shifts and stuff up until a couple of months ago. And so, you know, overnight and something had happened. Then see had the readout on her phone, right?

Scott Benner 54:26
Yeah, and I love the idea of being able to share your blood sugar with somebody. You know, I was thinking and I meant to say it earlier and I didn't the dexcom g five you're right has a sensor life of seven days, but it can be restarted when it ends. Yeah, it can see you maybe could but the problem is is it's it's sort of catches catch can after that you don't know if you're going to get you know, two more days or another week and some people are like I get three weeks but I never got that much with my daughter. I don't think I think we got into two restarts a couple of times. And I was just I was just thinking that That may be, I don't know, maybe having that data, taking another shot at having that data might be valuable. But But I don't know like, I mean, everyone's different. I've definitely heard people say exactly like you like, I can't I couldn't look at it, it was too much.

Justin Saunders 55:17
I tried the, the five I think I had two centers when I was back in New Zealand, because after the Think of the polite term forum, but after the public, Bolton, edas go at me, I went back to the, my private endocrinologist. And he said, Well, the first thing we're going to do before we even look at doing anything with your licenses, we're actually going to see what your sugar's are doing. So he hooked me up with the public diabetes service and they gave me a G five center. Okay. The US for a week and then I managed to convince them that just give me another one for another week. So I mean, that was really good apart from I kind of thought having to do finger sticks to calibrate it was

Scott Benner 56:06
counterproductive.

Justin Saunders 56:08
Yeah, yeah. kind of strange. There. It was supposed to read my blood sugar's but, you know,

Scott Benner 56:14
I hear you it's in the new one is I have to admit it is nice. It's, you know, not having to do the finger sticks is is definitely a bonus. I mean, any involvement back to your original point, I guess any involvement that you can take away with diabetes, to me is, is great. You know, the less I have to think about it during the day, the better. But, but I will say this, and I know, you've probably heard this, if you you know, if you've been listening, I think that once you kind of get to a rhythm with the Pre-Bolus thing. And the following up, I actually think that that, at least for me, it has been and for my daughter, less actual time involvement every day, then the opposite. Like, like, I know, it's it's tough to remember to do something, but at least those moments are a split second, or you know, a couple of minutes to do this thing to stop hours of something else from happening. And I've always tried to like, think of it that way, because I hear you. I mean, I'm not. I wish everybody knew me better. I'm not the I'm not the poster boy for like, you know, for, for planning ahead, you know, and so it doesn't come naturally to me to think about it either. And, and I get better at it as I go. But I've also found ways around it. And because of having sensor technology and being able to see Arden stacks comm if I miss a Pre-Bolus, then I do something I call over bolusing. So if it was something you know, if it was something that was going to take five units, excuse me, but I couldn't get get it in time. Well, then I would just Bolus the five units for the food plus insulin for the for the rise that I know was going to come plus the number and having to get back down again. And if you kind of like, you know overhauls, I've heard people call it a Super Bowl is if you do that, you can crush the spike before it comes. And it doesn't cause a low later. Yeah, that's the kind of stuff that you can I think it's difficult to learn without the without seeing the sensor. Yeah, you know, or wanting to test incredibly frequently afterwards. Yeah, which nobody wants to do, either. I mean, in the end, obviously, Justin, you're an adult, you'll do whatever you want to do. But there there is, I do genuinely believe that, you know, in, I guess in the simplest way of saying an ounce of prevention, right, like just a little bit up front stops a lot from happening later. And you might not find that I don't know. But I am interested to find out how you go with this. I hope we keep in touch.

Justin Saunders 58:49
Yeah, for sure. Yeah,

Scott Benner 58:51
I would I would really like to know, I have one question to ask you. You have it, you have an Instagram account.

Justin Saunders 58:57
I do have an Instagram account. It's not a very popular one. But it's there on Instagram.

Scott Benner 59:01
But but but I can't tell if it's funny. You don't put your face on. Frequently? No. But at one point, there was a silhouette of a rather handsome man. And then there was joking that this person was in great shape. And I'm like, is this actually Justin or is it a picture of someone else? And they're joking about it? Are you willing to tell me

Justin Saunders 59:23
I can't remember the photo probably was me. And it was probably a very sarcastic thing. But

Scott Benner 59:34
I just think it's fantastic that you have an Instagram account where I can 100% tell if it's you. I think that that indicates well done in my opinion. So I don't know if the kids think about it that way. But I thought it was spectacular. So let me find and you've hurt yourself recently, haven't you?

Justin Saunders 59:52
I did. Yep.

Scott Benner 59:54
ACL Did you have a surgery?

Justin Saunders 59:56
Yeah. I ruptured my ACL at the start. Have December and had the surgery three weeks for nearly four weeks ago. Now I think

Scott Benner 1:00:06
that's terrible. It painful I'm assuming.

Justin Saunders 1:00:11
And it does at times under fluctuates, it feels really good and then it'll get a bit a bit more and nighttime is really the problem I find. I can get a good four hours sleep and then wake up and the leg will be a bit achy. And it just keeps me awake. Yeah, that's it. And that it's that intense ache. Now it's not it's not really sore, but it's a it's that ache that's just really irritating. I said to my wife this morning that I had to go down and run sleep on the couch because quite hot here in Sydney at the moment. So we had the fan going overnight and just the noise of the fan. I wanted to throw it out the window because my knee was just irritating me so much. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:00:54
how is it on your blood? sugar's that the surgery and the pain and all that is it? Does it affect you greatly?

Justin Saunders 1:01:04
I think the pain might affect me a little bit because my blood sugar's seem to be when I get up in the morning, they seem to be increasing a little bit, even without actually eating. Yeah, it's pretty common, I

Unknown Speaker 1:01:15
think.

Justin Saunders 1:01:17
But it's actually I've been a little bit unwell for the last couple of weeks as well. So my my blood sugar's have actually been probably quite stable. I think, the last couple of weeks. It was interesting. It's the first major surgery, call an ACL, a major surgery that I've ever had. That was interesting being in hospital, I stayed a night in hospital with my diabetes and the hospitals that just really didn't know what to do with me.

Scott Benner 1:01:47
That is a common occurrence. I don't I don't think it matters what country you're in, you know, they're not good at at, at managing type one and insulin in a hospital setting. They they leave you really high and treat it like an afterthought, which is you know, which of course is just terrible for healing. You know, the higher your blood sugar is, the slower you heal. So,

Justin Saunders 1:02:08
yeah, yeah, I just managed, I was only in there for a night and just managed all my own stuff. But not long after my surgery. I had a junior doctor come into my junior doctor come into my hospital room, and he was like, what's your normal diabetic regime? Like? Well, I normally take between three and six units of insulin or a meal, depending on what I'm eating. Yeah. Ah, well, that doesn't work for this chart. So for this chart, what we put down? I'll just put down six. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:02:44
you write down whatever you want. And I'll take

Unknown Speaker 1:02:46
that sounds. Exactly.

Scott Benner 1:02:48
So I almost I had a person from Australia, who will be on the show wanted me to come down and do a like a day long bold with insulin conversation. And yes, I just saw that on Facebook, she was trying to fundraise or something for Yeah, and she just it kind of it didn't, it didn't work out, it was a lot of money that would have needed to be raised to haul my carcass all the way to show you but we tried really hard to get, you know, somebody to back it like a company to back it. But the problem ends up being is that most of the companies I have relationship with don't sell a lot of products in Australia. So there's not a not not a not a real big calling for on the pod to do marketing in a country where they can't sell it on the pot. Although they they do really seem like they are working towards it. But I was just really touched that you have no idea how many people listen in Australia and New Zealand I the downloads there are they overwhelmed me every time I take a look at them. I'm pleased that everybody enjoys the show. So for those people, they're gonna hear an accent finally that they can they can understand a little better. Instead of I know, I don't

Justin Saunders 1:04:00
know what it I don't know what sort of accent I've got at the moment. Or it's gonna be a mix of Australian and New Zealand. So there might be a bit confused as time. Excellent.

Scott Benner 1:04:09
Can you tell me we're up on an hour and I am gonna let you go. But I wanted to I want to say something very American to you for a second. What's the greatest difference between Australia and New Zealand like living from place to place?

Justin Saunders 1:04:25
You want to go diabetes related.

Scott Benner 1:04:27
Now I just in general like like what's, you know, if I was going to move and I you know, what's the selling point for New Zealand versus the selling point from Australia? Like what's what's great about living in both places.

Justin Saunders 1:04:42
Australia is, if you like the warmth, it's well where I am in Sydney, New South Wales. It's a very warm, sunny place, you know that. I think the days of sun probably outweigh the days of rain so it's quite nice from that point of view. For me, I think I'll always be a New Zealander. And it's New Zealand. It's just an amazing country. Everybody's just so much more relaxed. We have I'm very much a, what do you say, a justice driven person? Then New Zealand is very, I think, is quite a lot more. I'm probably gonna upset a lot of Australians here, but it's a lot more of an accepting country than Australia is.

Scott Benner 1:05:31
So a little more liberal in it's more liberal sexuality preference, stuff like that.

Justin Saunders 1:05:38
Yeah, yeah, rice, culture, whatever. I mean, don't get me wrong, it's not perfect. There's still, you know, racism in every country. But I find the differences are quite a bit quite dark, between the two countries in that respect. But just you know, the sceneries I, when I met my wife, I was here in Australia working as a an outdoors instructor. When I first came over, I was like, Oh, this, the scenery is not very good, because it's a lot of gum trees, it's a lot of grays and browns, and you know, everything else. And it's not, it's not very good. But then as you spend more time here, you understand you kind of get to understand that it's, it's got a beauty of its own, those grays and those Browns produce something that is actually produces quite really nice scenery, as New Zealand's a lot of greens and browns, and kind of more vibrant colors in Australia. And New Zealand's a lot smaller. where I grew up, we could go to the snow and two and a half hours to the beach and 45 minutes. We can go bushwalking in like 10 minutes. We could go to a city and like half an hour, I was born in a small town. Okay, so the closest city was about half an hour 45 minutes away. So it's just very small, compact. And, yeah, I don't know. I just, I just love it. To be honest. You

Scott Benner 1:07:04
know, it sounds I mean, both places are places I'd love to see. But you describe a love for New Zealand that that's hard to ignore. Plus, you just named the podcast episode, because this one will definitely be called bushwalking with Justin. And because that is a phrase I've just never heard before in my entire life.

Justin Saunders 1:07:24
You may want to be careful which countries you podcast goes out and say bushwalking.

Scott Benner 1:07:32
Well, well, we'll see. I really liked it. I have to tell you.

Justin Saunders 1:07:35
Just what do you think Americans? It's just hiking. That's a throw the other. Throw the other one out there that you may have heard if you've talked to any New Zealanders or had anything to do with New Zealand and net tramping.

Scott Benner 1:07:50
That definitely sounds like finding a loose woman to me.

Justin Saunders 1:07:56
Yeah, same as bush walking and hiking. But I don't know where it came from

Scott Benner 1:08:01
very clearly. And so you said you've been sick recently? Is it like you've coughed a number of times, which I'll edit out. So most people won't hear. But is it a chest cold? Or if you just had an illness of? It's been hanging?

Justin Saunders 1:08:15
That's just a bonus. I had a week of nausea. And then I've had a week and a bit of this dry cough. And fevers and stuff. So

Scott Benner 1:08:24
that sucks. That is what it is. Yeah, no, I hear that I'm and what? Right now it's winter here. So you're you're in summer. Now you said windows? When and what month? Do you turn towards the Do you get a fall? Or do you go right into winter months? Or how does how does the transition happen?

Justin Saunders 1:08:45
here in Australia, there's probably not too much of an autumn or fall. It just kind of gets colder. Like like winter here in Sydney. It's not significant. You might get the odd day where you get into single digits. Okay, or at least last winter, there wasn't much in the way of single digit temperatures. It was actually quite a warm winter. Obviously other parts of Australia as you go further south, they have the ski fields and stuff that could have been colder up in the mountains and things but I think here in Sydney, there's probably not a huge transition between summer and winter. Yeah, there's less Zealand's notice a little bit more,

Scott Benner 1:09:26
there's less and less here. I'm on the east coast and there I mean as I don't want to sound like an old person. But when I when I was growing up, I felt there was a real delineation between winter spring summer fall like you could feel the transitions and in this week alone and that you know the temperatures might mean a little to you but it's going to snow here in the next day or so. So it's going to be below 32 degrees zero for you. And, and three days later, it's supposed to be 65 degrees outside. So I just don't you know, it's all over the place. I was I was really interested in that. What month is winter? Come for you? Like when do you think of?

Justin Saunders 1:10:08
Probably? Maine, maybe.

Scott Benner 1:10:11
Okay. So just around there, just as our spring is kind of is rolling along. Yeah. That's incredibly interesting. I, I'm thrilled that you were able to do this. And I appreciate you reaching out.

Justin Saunders 1:10:23
I know I'm glad we could do it now.

Scott Benner 1:10:25
Yeah. Now and yeah. So but for people who are listening, and don't know, Justin, I kind of banged into each other in a lucky time where he was available. And I was because we had it planned for 1am his time, which would not have been fun for him. So this is this is much better. I'm really late. This worked out like this.

Justin Saunders 1:10:44
Yeah, just not mine. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:10:47
you more than me, I was just gonna be up a little early in the morning, which wasn't really bad at all. Justin, thank you for coming on the show and being so open and honest, thank you to Omni pod Dexcom and dancing for diabetes, for supporting with your advertising. Thank you guys, for considering the advertisers to support the podcast, it's the circle of life. Learn more at Juicebox Podcast comm or in the links in your show notes about all the advertisers. And guys, we are so close to the 1 million downloads, celebration beginning it's common. One last thing, it was my birthday last week. And I put up a post on social media basically saying it's my birthday, get me something for my birthday, here's what you can get me share the podcast with somebody else. I wrote a short post and I talked about some of the feedback that I had gotten just that morning. And, you know, I just said Look, look at all the positive feedback coming back from the podcast. So you know, if you think you know, somebody who would be helped by it, or entertained by it, or would find it useful, share it with them, that would be a great birthday present for me if you share the podcast. So not only do people do that all the time, and I really appreciate it. But something incredibly unexpected happen. In that post, there were hundreds of replies from people who listen who have been impacted by the show. So if you took the time to share your experience with the podcast with me in one of those social media posts, either on Instagram or Facebook, please know that at some point on my birthday, I either got really teary eyed or in one situation cried at a traffic light because of something you guys wrote. And it was much more of a birthday present than I deserved or, or expected. I just wanted you guys to share the podcast with other people. I just wanted you to go to other people and say, Hey, this is how the Juicebox Podcast has helped me. I didn't think you were going to tell me how it's helped you. And I wasn't ready for that. To be honest. It was very impactful. Thank you very much. There'll be a defining diabetes episode on Friday again. And I think by next week, we should be ready to talk about the millionth episode, celebration and giveaway. Thank you guys again so much for listening.

Unknown Speaker 1:12:59
I'll see you next week.