#1327 Beaver Tail

October 9, 2024Scott Benner

Charlie had gestational diabetes with all three of her pregnancies and now has type 1.

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Scott Benner 0:00
Welcome back to another episode of The juicebox podcast.

Charlie had gestational diabetes with all three of her kids, and she probably actually had type one during the third pregnancy. We're going to talk about that and a lot more on this episode of the podcast, nothing you hear on the juicebox podcast should be considered advice medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan. When you place your first order for AG, one, with my link, you'll get five free travel packs and a free year supply of vitamin D drink, ag one.com/juice box. If you are the caregiver of someone with type one diabetes or have type one yourself, please go to T 1d exchange.org/juice, box and complete the survey. This should take you about 10 minutes, and will really help type one diabetes research. You can help right from your house at T 1d exchange.org/juice box. Don't forget to save 40% off of your entire order at cozy earth.com All you have to do is use the offer code juice box at checkout. That's juicebox at checkout to save 40% at cozy earth.com you OmniPod.

This episode of The juicebox podcast is sponsored by OmniPod five, and you can learn more right now at my special link, omnipod.com/juicebox this episode of The juicebox podcast is sponsored by the Eversense CGM. Eversense is going to let you break away from some of the CGM norms you may be accustomed to. No more weekly or biweekly hassles of sensor changes. Never again will you be able to accidentally bump your sensor off. You won't have to carry around CGM supplies and worrying about your adhesive lasting. Well, that's the thing of the past ever since cgm.com/juicebox

Charlie 2:11
My name is Charlie. I am from Canada, and I was diagnosed with Lata diabetes type one and a half in march of 2023, after the birth of my third child. But I didn't become insulin dependent until seven months later. So it was a bit of a shock, because I had two gestational pregnancies before that. I thought the third was gestational, and I was expecting type two, like I was fully prepared for type two

Scott Benner 2:41
let me, let me ask you that question. So then you have, you have two pregnancies. So you have, you get pregnant. You have gestational diabetes. It pass, passes, goes away, isn't impacting you anymore. You get pregnant again. It happens again, passes again. Yeah, that leaves you with the expectation that one day you will have type two diabetes, yeah,

Speaker 1 3:01
and we have family like, there's family history of type two on both sides of my family, and they told me with gestational like, the more gestational pregnancies you have, the more like you are to develop Type Two later in life. So I was just that was on my radar.

Scott Benner 3:16
So you're like, hey, let me see if I can get this going, and I'll make a third baby and see what happens?

Speaker 1 3:22
Well, yeah, my sugars got crazy after my second when my second child was a year old, okay, my sugars were weird. I wasn't on I wasn't a diabetic, yet. I was getting lows. Was getting lows all the time, like I was hitting even the twos, like 2.8 after I had a snack, if I was late for a meal, I was crashing. I was hitting, like, threes all, all the time. I was hitting threes if I missed, was late for a meal or missed the snack, and I just kept I feel it like I'd feel the drain, I'd start shaking, I'd start sweating. And I test that I'm in the threes. And I'm like, why am I in the three and then even in the twos after eating, and like, what is going on? So I went to my doctor

Scott Benner 4:08
real quickly, Charlie, for people listening, 2.8 is a 53 is, like a 54 just for like, context for everyone, yeah, yeah,

Speaker 1 4:15
which I mean, and I so I also knew really nothing about diabetes, because I'd only had two gestational pregnancies, and I never saw the twos when I was pregnant like because if I was in the fours, I'd have a snack to come up above five.

Scott Benner 4:32
Can I ask during the pregnancies with the gestational what was the management plan like?

Speaker 1 4:37
My first two was different than the third, because we did move. So just a different team altogether. So it was quite different. So the gestational for my first two, they had me record. I had to write down all my sugars, like so fasting, and after each meal, I had to record it on paper and then take a picture and email it to them on Sunday, and then they'd. On Me Monday and say, these are your adjustments. And I did it. I mean, I knew nothing else. They and I already had a big baby with a big head. And they did tell me in the in the education class, they said, if you don't manage your sugars, then that can cause your baby to have a larger head, or just be larger in general. I'm like, great. I'm already there. If you're telling me this can get worse, yeah,

Scott Benner 5:26
Charlie, when they tell you that, how do they shape that statement? Is it like, Hey, careful your hoo ha, is going to have a problem? Or is it like, it's an actually, actually a problem for the baby itself.

Speaker 1 5:37
It was for the baby, like, the health of the baby was the main concern, I mean, and then in turn, I mean, it was my first child, there's already fear of, how does this thing get out of me? Right? Like, is your first pregnancy, and you're like, Oh my goodness. So they did say, like, and this was pre covid. So there was, like, 10 ladies there for this gestational education Yeah, class, it was like an hour long. I was already in shock that was diabetic, because I know gestational diabetes was even a thing, okay, until the lady called me like I knew I was getting a glucose test done and had to drink the sugar and wait the hour and and then a lady called me a week later and said, I'm calling to book you in for the diabetes education class. And I said, Does that mean I'm diabetic? And she froze, and she said, Well, I'd assume so, because I've been told to call you to book you in for the diabetes education I said, Okay, I just nobody told me that my blood work was done and I was diabetic, so I was confused. I guess I just had never heard of it.

Scott Benner 6:45
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Unknown Speaker 9:08
Yeah, I'm

Speaker 1 9:09
like, Okay, I'm I'm diabetic. What part of you know what that meant? What part

Scott Benner 9:14
of the Great White North Do you live in? What um? What province there? Ontario? Okay, yeah, when you become a type one, I know I'm gonna jump ahead for just a second. What's the management structure? Like, what insulin do they give you? How do they talk to you about technology for

Speaker 1 9:30
my type one? Like, for my type one? Yeah, dependency, um, they put me on basal R and long acting and novoropping with meals, okay,

Scott Benner 9:38
all right, that's all I wanted to know. If not, we can go back to the pregnancy. Okay, so she gives you the call, Hey, you give diabetes, and you're like, Well, what now and then? Where does it go from there?

Speaker 1 9:46
So I go to this class with all these other pregnant ladies, and they just, they gave me the glucometer, and they're like, this is how you test your sugars. And I'm just like, I was so scared that I was started to shake when I had to use. The Lancet. I just couldn't believe how to do this. And then they told me how to do it, like, five times a day, and I just couldn't believe it. I'm like, that, that's a lot of work. And I'm like, I'm already busy, and it just seemed like such an inconvenience. But I did it like, I followed all the rules to a T because I didn't want my baby to get any bigger, sure. And they told me that, like, once baby's born, you stop your insulin. We'll test you make sure you're not diabetic. And that's what happened. He was born. Stopped my insulin like six weeks later. Did the blood work? Everything was fine. And I'm like, great, glad that's over with I hated the needles. I got pregnant again, and they tested me early because of the first pregnancy, because the first gestational Sure. So they tested me a lot earlier, and I was borderline. So then they made me do it again, but with more sugar, and then I was diabetic again, and that was for even longer. That was like for five months, four to five months, whereas the first one was like two months, okay? And then so second diabetic pregnancy, then after my second was born, I never got tested. I just never found I just didn't do it. I don't know. I never went

Scott Benner 11:11
back for that postpartum follow up. Can we talk about the kind of this psychological aspect of all this, the Hey, this is horrible. I can't believe I have to do this. I don't like needles. I'm not following up after my second pregnancy. Is there a reasonable expectation that that gestational diabetes is just a momentary thing and it just goes away and it went away last time? So why should I possibly need to follow up the second time it's gonna happen again the same way? Yeah.

Speaker 1 11:42
I mean, there was also covid, okay, which I didn't want to leave the house. I had a baby that was, I mean, a minor factor, I suppose. No, I just didn't do it. I mean, I had my glucometer, so I was able to check every now and then. And I'm like, my sugars are fine. I'm like, I I'll be fine. So I never did it. Babies a year now. So this is March 2022, and that's when I started getting weird sugars,

Scott Benner 12:11
all these lows. By that, you mean lows. Okay, so, so I just want to be clear, and not that I'm questioning you, but because this has been in my head lately as I've been watching people in my personal life ignore their significant health issues. That's not what you were doing. You weren't doing out of sight, out of mind. I'll whistle and it won't nothing like that. Okay, no, okay,

Speaker 1 12:32
they went away the first time, and like I said, I was checking my sugars. I would randomly check, yeah. And then I just reached a point I just, I just didn't go back because I'm, like, my sugars are fine. I wasn't being ignorant about it. I My sugars were okay when I tested them. So I just, I mean, I know I should have gone. It's not that big a deal. It's just another blood work test. But I didn't,

Scott Benner 12:54
no, I'm not breaking, listen, Charlie, I'm not breaking your snowballs or anything like that. Yeah, I just, I just got to watch somebody recently walking around with like, 350 blood sugars, a type two, and they're just, they've lost like 100 pounds in the last 12 months, and they're just not doing anything about it. No, yeah, it's, it's, I'm genuinely fascinated by every sign points that I'm dying and I'm just not going to do anything. It's, it's and, you know, and the person knows, by the way, they're not doing anything to lose weight. They're actually eating voraciously, which, of course, makes sense, because they're probably in and out of or on the verge of DKA with this type two all the time, and now they're finally going to a doctor. But as I spoke to them about it, like face to face. Could really see in their eyes. I couldn't tell. That's why I asked you. Like, I couldn't tell. Was it just, like, blissful ignorance, or was it, yeah, you know, or was it I just don't understand this? No,

Speaker 1 13:51
if I, if I've had numbers that high, like with my pregnancies, I don't like, I rarely went over 10, which is 180 Yeah. Like I just 10 was bad, like that was above target for pregnancy. And so I never even knew how high blood sugars could get until, until I became insulin dependent. Were

Scott Benner 14:12
you using insulin during the pregnancies? The first two, yes, I was, yeah. Did they have you shoot, like a FAST Act thing for a high blood sugar? Were you taking a basal?

Speaker 1 14:21
So the first two was different, like I said. So they had me on humlin N, which was my long acting that, but that was like an eight hour duration, so I had to do that. It was gradual. At the end of the first pregnancy, I was on five units of human end in the morning, four units at bedtime, and then Humalog with breakfast, lunch and dinner. Okay, six, six units at breakfast, two at lunch and six with dinner. Did they

Scott Benner 14:49
have you eating a certain amount of carbs?

Speaker 1 14:51
Oh, yeah, there was a specific this many carb choices. So you had to have like, breakfast snack, lunch snack, dinner, snack. Boo

Scott Benner 15:00
boy, was it too much its points? Were you like, Oh, my God, I can't believe I'm eating all this food. Or was that okay? Yes,

Speaker 1 15:05
did I already No. Was not okay. I already naturally ate lower carb, okay? Like, I was not following by any means, a strict low carb diet, but I just ate,

Scott Benner 15:17
like, whale meat, seal, Penguin, stuff like that.

Speaker 1 15:19
Yeah, the norm, you know, Moose

Scott Benner 15:24
right? You're probably moose jerky, am I right? Yeah, wash that down with a nice glass of crude oil. I don't, I don't know a lot about Canada.

Unknown Speaker 15:35
Good old beaver tail.

Scott Benner 15:38
So too much food for you, but you're keeping up with it. Oh,

Speaker 1 15:41
man, it was so hard because so I already, like, I said, already low carb, and then my baby was huge. I didn't have room in my stomach for that, like,

Scott Benner 15:48
for the baby, and the food I didn't,

Speaker 1 15:51
the indigestion I had, and I I struggled. I'm like, Look, I can't eat this volume of carbs. Yeah, like, it's because and then you can't just eat the carbs, so you have to pair it with protein. And I

Scott Benner 16:03
forget exactly how big were the babies Charlie when they came out. The first one, the second

Speaker 1 16:07
one, my first born, was eight pounds 13 ounces. Okay, the second was six pounds 14 ounces. And I I cried when I saw her on the scale, because part of me, I felt some guilt with my son, which is silly, because, I mean, 813, is a big baby, but not

Scott Benner 16:24
crazy. I know lady had a 10 pound baby, she still limps 20 years later. Oh, my God, go ahead. Yeah.

Speaker 1 16:31
Just wondered, like, is he that big? Because he was also he was 11 days early.

Scott Benner 16:36
So you thought, oh, I, I did this with the blood sugar thing. You felt like, yeah, and

Speaker 1 16:40
because I was looking back with what I knew then, looking back in my blood sugars, they were high, like I was 12 after that sugar drink. And like, how long did I go without managing my diabetes? Like they caught it there. But was I already diabetic for a month before? And we didn't even know because, because with your first pregnancy, they don't test you till the third trimester. Today's

Scott Benner 17:00
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Speaker 1 18:42
told me, like it can affect their development, if it's really bad cognitive development, just overall, I suppose, okay, and then it just makes them larger, like they're just bigger. They just put on more weight, is my understanding. As far as unmanaged goes, I don't know, because I was managed. I managed it very well, and it was easy to just avoid sugar, because it was they told me, like, this will be over once you deliver. So it was like, Okay, I just won't eat

Scott Benner 19:15
dessert. It felt like a momentary thing, like I could cut this out for now. Yeah, it

Speaker 1 19:19
was momentary. It was easy to say, No, I'm not going to eat that. I'm diabetic and I'm caring for my baby like it was not a struggle to watch everyone else eat cake and I ate nothing. It was, it just mentally was fine. Well,

Scott Benner 19:32
yeah, listen, if you, I gotta be honest with you, if you're, if you're planning on raising a kid for its whole life, and you can't cut out like snacks, you're probably not cut out to be a parent. I mean, seriously, or at least you're not ready for the the amount of that probably sounded harsh. You're probably you're not ready for the amount of things that you give up to be a parent. Because that's no that's next. I mean, honestly, if the top 10 things I give up every day, if someone just said sugar in. That of this, I'd be like, Oh, is that it? That'd be terrific.

Unknown Speaker 20:02
Yeah, all right, I'm

Scott Benner 20:03
gonna try something here. How does elevated blood sugar in a pregnant woman impact fetal development? That's a pretty good right? My Google.

Speaker 1 20:25
Let's see what I never Google. I never googled that, and,

Scott Benner 20:30
yeah, we just always talk about, like, don't, don't do that. Why that isn't good? What? Why not? Yeah, listen now, I feel like we're all curious. So if we're not, you probably shouldn't be listening to the podcast. If this doesn't have your curiosity peaked, you should probably get out of this episode. Okay, so I'm gonna put it. I'm so interested to see where this comes back, because the place I put it, I put it into my vision AI app. Elevated blood sugar levels during pregnancy, particularly in cases of gestational diabetes or pre existing diabetes, can have significant impacts on fetal development. Here's a detailed look at how high glucose levels can affect the developing fetus. This is Scott reads the Internet to you, but hold on a second. Macrosomia, large birth weight, high blood sugar in the mother can lead to higher blood sugar levels in the fetus. The fetus then produces extra insulin. I get it to process the glucose, which can lead to increased fat deposits and larger body size known as micro microsomia. This can complicate delivery and increase the risk of birth injuries. So your blood sugar goes up, the baby's blood sugar goes up, and the baby makes more insulin. Ooh, okay, that's interesting. Hypoglycemia at birth. Babies born to mothers with high blood sugar levels can have very high insulin levels at birth. And then once the umbilical cords cut off, and the and the maple tap is, I guess, in your situation, is, is cut, the glucose supply from the mother stops, but the baby's insulin levels remain high, which can lead to dangerously low blood sugar levels shortly after

Speaker 1 22:01
birth. So they did explain that to me, okay, like the week before, like the week before delivery. Yet I sat down with the they called her the diabetic doctor. I don't think she was an endocrinologist. And basically that was explained to me, like, you need to monitor your sugars up until, like,

Scott Benner 22:17
the baby's born. Don't give up now, because we're close, yes, because

Speaker 1 22:22
some woman, apparently some woman, will wake up the morning of their induction, and like I made it, I'm having fruit loops for breakfast, and then your sugars are high. And then yeah, baby, sugars are high. Their pancreas doesn't know what to do, because it's been leaning on my pancreas. And then, yeah, sugars drop.

Scott Benner 22:39
So baby's making a ton of insulin. It comes out, the umbilical cord gets cut, then the baby's glucose level is not being fed by your high glucose level anymore, and the insulin crushes the baby. Here's the third thing. It says preterm birth and respiratory distress syndrome, high maternal blood sugars can increase the risk of early labor and delivery. Premature infants are at risk for many complications, including respiratory distress syndrome, a condition that makes breathing difficult. There's more. Did they tell you about that one? By any chance, no developmental delays. There is some evidence to suggest that children born to mothers with poorly controlled diabetes may face a higher risk of developmental delays. These could affect cognitive, motor and social skills. And then there's congenital malformations, elevated blood sugar levels, especially during the first trimester, when the baby's organs are forming, can increase the risk of congenital malformations, this includes heart defects and defects of the brain and spine, and the last thing is increased risk of obesity and type two diabetes. Children born to mothers with high blood sugar levels during pregnancy may have a higher risk of becoming obese and develop type two diabetes later in life. They told me about that one. They did tell you about that one. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 23:53
they did tell me about that one.

Scott Benner 23:54
Then there's some direction here. I want to tell people I used my vision AI app, which is an AI platform that I've gotten involved in, because they are, at the moment, integrating a ton of content from the podcast into the knowledge of the AI. So I'll be telling people more about that in the future. But that's I've never done that before, because there are going to be those of you listening who are like, Oh yeah, Scott's got a piece of this vision AI company, and he's trying to get us to use it. Well, let me be clear, you're 100% right, but I'm actually using it because instead of googling it and getting back, kind of like a high level answer and then having to dig through to get all this, this thing knows why you're asking. It actually knows I'm using Arden's account. It knows Arden has diabetes, as interesting is that is, although I think it wouldn't answer the question the same for anybody who is using it. You don't have to have diabetes to use the app anyway. Okay, so they told you some of that, not all of it, now that you've heard the rest of it, does it freak you out more? Or are you like, okay, no.

Speaker 1 24:55
I mean it makes sense. I mean it certainly is scary. But then I. The bit that they did tell me was enough to have me Listen,

Scott Benner 25:05
take it real seriously. I'm

Unknown Speaker 25:07
yeah, this is serious. This is for my baby.

Scott Benner 25:10
Yeah. May I say, Charlie, still, even though you took it very seriously and did what they told you, you're still at the at the, I was going to say, the whim, that's not quite right, but you're at their direction constantly so you're not making adjustments. Like, can you look back with your type one diabetes mind now and say, Oh, I would have done differently when I was sure, okay, oh, yeah,

Speaker 1 25:30
like I did. As they said, I knew nothing about insulin. They said, inject this much at this meal. And I did. But then what happened with my second pregnancy is my A friend of mine had gestational diabetes, like I had my first child, then she had hers, and then I had my second. So for her, her pregnancy, I was watching her, she was on the sliding scale, and she could adjust her insulin, and I was never allowed to do that. I didn't even know it was an option. I never even thought to ask, because it was never brought up. It was inject this at this meal and this at bedtime, and, yeah, that was it. So watching her manage her diabetes, I

Scott Benner 26:12
was like, huh, like, that looks that

Speaker 1 26:16
looks easier. That looks nicer. So for my second pregnancy, I remember asking them on like, Christmas, I'm like, What can, what can you do for me? Like, help me get through Christmas? Like, I want to eat more sweets,

Scott Benner 26:32
yeah? Like, I want this kid to be healthy, but I would also like a chocolate chip cookie.

Speaker 1 26:35
Yeah, I want the Christmas treats within reason. I hear you. How can I increase my insulin to accommodate that? And they said, they said, No. They said, You just have to be careful. Just try and, like, balance it out.

Scott Benner 26:47
Okay, so Charlie, are you and her going to different doctor's offices?

Unknown Speaker 26:51
Yeah, we were in different we had different clinics.

Scott Benner 26:54
Were you in, I just like to say province, but were you in different provinces? No, same problem. Okay, all right, so it's literally, yeah, the reason I ask for people who don't know is that you can get wildly different healthcare depending on what Province of Canada you're in. I just It's something I've learned from making the podcast is about diabetes specifically. And I was wondering, was this just like, literally a different doctor? Because so would you consider now that she had a more progressive Doctor than you did.

Speaker 1 27:22
I don't even know like, I wonder if my team like everything I know now, if my team was a bit dated, I suppose, and even just the insulin they used. I had heard later that what was it? Humolin and hemolog were kind of older insulins, and then over rapid love of mirror, kind of newer. I mean, I don't know if that's true. I never looked it up, but I had heard that from my third pregnancy team, because that was a different team.

Scott Benner 27:48
The thing that throws me off is that you had the first baby. Would you say 810, eight pounds, 10 pounds,

Unknown Speaker 27:53
13 ounces. How

Scott Benner 27:54
much is that in kilograms? Why don't you guys? Why do Why do you guys do some things in in kilos, and so thank goodness,

Speaker 1 28:00
because we are influenced by the UK and and the US, so we're all mixed up.

Scott Benner 28:08
I apologize anyway. But my point was, you had an 810, baby that was pretty like, not premature, but came 1010, days early,

Speaker 1 28:15
right? Which is early. I was induced. I was induced because of the diabetes, oh, because

Scott Benner 28:19
they were like, We got to get this, this Zeppelin out of you, is what they were thinking. Right, right. Okay, apparently

Speaker 1 28:24
induction. So induction is normal with the gestational because the last week or two is when your sugars get really hard to manage. So they just don't even let you go there. So

Scott Benner 28:35
then what I wonder is, when you come to them with your second baby and say, Hey, I got a friend over here seems to be doing a more adaptive thing, using more insulin, more targeted. How do they not look and go? Well, she did have an eight pound, 10 ounce baby. We had to induce her, like, worth a worth a roll. But then your, then your daughter was the other way, though. How was that like? How do you she

Speaker 1 28:55
was smaller? So I did wonder, okay, my third child was not even smaller, but she was eight, four, I think. But yeah, when my daughter, when my first daughter, was born at 614, I remember just the relief of, like I did it, yeah, like I did it. I grew a small baby, and now she was early too. She was two weeks early, but she came. She came on her own. She came two days before her induction date, so she was a solid two weeks early. I believe.

Scott Benner 29:27
Can I share with you? I almost cried when you said that, that feeling that you I did it. It feels,

Speaker 1 29:32
yeah, yeah. It's making me emotional, remembering because, well, because I experimented a bit with that second pregnancy, because I'd witnessed my friend do her adjustments and whatnot with my second pregnancy, when they said, No, you can't increase insulin for Christmas, I did it anyways. You were like,

Unknown Speaker 29:49
I bet I could.

Speaker 1 29:51
I'm like, I think I can. Just gonna push this a little

Unknown Speaker 29:55
harder.

Speaker 1 29:56
And then I just, I never wrote it down. I just lied on. My on my sheet because I had good sugars after Yeah, I bet you did like or like, or like, date night. Like, if we had pizza night, guess what? I actually had pizza night. I just increased my insulin a little bit. You have pizza base it off of like, I had no carb ratio. I none of that. It was just, yeah, this many units for this meal, so I would increase. Now this was not, I didn't do this daily. I was still quite strict with my like I did what they told me. But when we went out for dinner, took a bit more insulin, but I wrote down the the units they wanted me taking, and then everything was fine. What

Scott Benner 30:34
did you base it on? The extra a gut feeling, and just a little more, I guess, and

Speaker 1 30:41
just a little more. Yeah, yeah, that's what it was. I mean, I would kind of eyeball it, and know, okay, I'm generally eating three carb choices. This looks like five, so I will almost double. Like, I just it was an eyeball

Scott Benner 30:56
on the old OmniPod PDM, which they don't call it a PDM anymore. They call it a controller. But there was, like, this rubber button you had to hold down to make the, like, the insulin go up, like, the numbers, like, you know, if you were going to choose how many carbs or something, I would like, I just push and hold it, like, say, I was trying to get to, like, I don't know, five units, and it would roll up, and it would like, go to, like, 5.25 and Arden would be like, go back. And I was like, ask, close enough, and then, how many times back then was I going, Oh, no, we've used too much insulin. But it was almost always, I don't have enough. So, yeah, it just hit me one day, like, once she got bigger, five units, 5.15 what the who? I mean, what's the difference? Like, you like, when it's down to, like, when you're little, and it's, you know, point one is, like, all the insulin, well, then obviously it's a lot, but where did you get the courage from

Speaker 1 31:49
my friend? Yeah, that's it. Okay. She she can go up for ice cream and increase her insulin, and she's fine.

Scott Benner 31:58
I like Charlie's, like, I want to be a good mom, but I would really like ice cream too.

Unknown Speaker 32:02
Well, yeah,

Speaker 1 32:05
and this was an even longer duration of diabetes because it was caught earlier, so it was kind of like, oh, man, I got to do this again, but it's even for longer. I mean, there's still a light at the end of the tunnel, which was the delivery of the baby, and then insulin will stop after, like it didn't last time, but I had a few. I treated myself a bit. So

Scott Benner 32:24
then what happened after she came out? Like you had an expectation, you were supposed to do a follow up. You didn't, and then I didn't.

Speaker 1 32:30
I checked, like I said, I checked my own triggers, and I didn't, but I didn't do the True Blood work. Yeah. And then when she was a year, is when my sugars went

Scott Benner 32:42
dizzy. Is that how low you got?

Speaker 1 32:44
Lightheaded, okay, but my so my fasting was high, like, my fasting was around nine, but then I would, like, I'd crash after meals. But I wonder if it just hit me harder because I was higher and then crashing, because in the moment, I'm like, I'm always low, but I learned later I was high, but then I was getting low, very fast, okay, I just was never catching the high, because I would go to test an hour after my meal, and I'm in the threes, but I would probably already hit the twelves, but Then within the hour, come back down to threes. So my doctor, I went to my doctor, and I said, like, I'm something's wrong with my sugars, and he just did a generic blood sugar test. Like, I don't know it was fasting. I think fasting and a 1c my fasting was 5.7 my ANC was 5.9 and you need to be under six. So he's like, You're fine, you're you're okay. And I went back and I said, I'm not like, I keep like, this was, if I went to get groceries, I had to bring snacks, like grocery shopping. Oh yeah, I couldn't go anywhere without bringing a snack or having fueled up with a meal beforehand, because I was getting low

Scott Benner 34:03
no matter what, even if you didn't matter what, like, you couldn't fast, right? No, no.

Speaker 1 34:08
Like, I would. So I was in like, a I wasn't managing diabetes because I wasn't diabetic, yeah, and I didn't. I was never diagnosed yet. So I was in a preventative, like, Let's prevent the lows,

Scott Benner 34:23
but you knew this was a problem, right? Like, you weren't, like, unaware. I

Speaker 1 34:26
knew it wasn't okay, and that's why I went to my doctor. And then I went back and I said, I can't, I can't live like this, like I'm I have two kids. I'm crashing every it felt like a crash in the threes if I don't eat enough food. And even, like, even a fully balanced meal, like, like, we had chicken curry with quinoa and, like, that's a filling meal. And I remember an hour after that, I was in the threes and shaking and sweating, and I didn't feel good. So he did even more blood work that I had to pay for. It wasn't covered. Covered. Why?

Scott Benner 35:00
When he said, Can you tell me why it wasn't covered? Because he didn't think it was necessary. No,

Speaker 1 35:05
it just not covered by OHIP. So it was, it's just a specialty blood work, I suppose, not A, not A common one I see so and he told me he's like, You need to come in for this blood draw during a low

Scott Benner 35:19
hell. You want me to do that? What? Like,

Speaker 1 35:23
how do I do that? And he's like, I know, I understand, you have two kids at home. I understand the complications, but this is, this is the blood work I want to do. So my neighbor at the time, like, we've moved since then, but her has, like, he's diabetic, type two. She's not, but I chat with her on the fence, over the fence all the time, because she was retired, and so she knew everything, and I told her, and she's like, well, if a low happens, just let me know. I'll watch your kids. It happened, it hit. I could kind of time it too. Like I knew if I'm late for a snack, I'll get low. So I just didn't have a snack. And then I got all shaky, and I tested and I was like, I think 3.8 or something. I holler, hollered over the fence and like, can you watch my kids? I gotta go to the doctor's office, and it was only five minutes away. I was nervous because I had to drive there, yeah, but I also knew I've been in the twos before and not passed out, so I should be fine. And I did it. I drove i She took the kids. I drove to the doctor's office, yeah, and I'm shaking, and I've got my sugar pills in my pocket, but I'm shaking and I'm sweating, and the lights are somehow brighter. I guess it was the one of the symptoms of the low and then I go in and I'm like, I need my blood drawn now. Like, I'm experiencing a sugar though. It needs to happen now. I'm uncomfortable right now. Yeah, and so she, she got it, and she's the lab tech. She's like, but she can't just draw the blood. She has to, like, take the requisition and do all that stuff. So I'm sitting with her, waiting, and she says to me, she's like, Oh, you're gonna have to pay for this. And just said, Okay, that's fine. She goes, but it's pretty expensive. I said, okay, just, and I'm like, I can barely think, yeah, exactly. I'm in a like, I'm I'm sweating financial decisions, and I'm nervous because I don't I've never passed out from a low but I, I mean, there's a first for everything, yeah, and I knew I was 3.8 at home, so I've got to be lower than that by now. 20 minutes later, she said it's going to be about $500 and I and I was shocked, but then I said, Just do it. Just Do It Like It's fine. I'll figure it out, because I need I can't live like this anymore. So she drew the blood, and then I shoved some sugar pills in my mouth. Right away, my doctor told me later that it was actually only in the fours, the low fours, whereas my glucometer had shown the high threes. The blood work result from that was that my pro insulin levels were slightly elevated. That's what he got from that. And then he referred me to an endocrinologist. He couldn't have

Scott Benner 38:00
just referred to the endocrinologist, and let you keep the $500 No, did you get the 500

Unknown Speaker 38:06
back? I and I did through my husband's work. I

Scott Benner 38:09
would like you should have asked him if I could pay him millimoles instead of dollars, because I think the number would have been

Speaker 1 38:15
lower than I'm not right. It's only through, it's only through the coverage with my husband's work that we got that

Scott Benner 38:23
doctor sounds like what they call a pill. You understand? Like, I don't understand why. I mean, you had gestational twice. It is not unreasonable to think you're going to develop diabetes. Like, why do they have to have you drive around Ontario with a low blood sugar? I know you know what I mean. I mean, what if you would have crashed the plow. Yeah, there's definitely a plow on

Speaker 1 38:44
your truck, right? Yeah, not now, but that was gone, but you have

Scott Benner 38:47
one, is what I'm saying, yeah. Okay, all right,

Speaker 1 38:51
so I get referred to. This is March. Now, this is end of June. I had that blood work done. So I get referred to in 2022 I get referred to the endocrinologist, but by the time I get to the Endo, I'm pregnant again. And I noticed right away, when I was pregnant, the lows stopped. It was immediate, because your blood sugars rose. They were high, yeah. So whereas before, my fasting was around nine, and then I was, like, I said, in the threes very often. I mean, sometimes fours and fives like it happened. It was just rare.

Scott Benner 39:22
Can I ask real quickly, the time between the first pregnancy and the third pregnancy? How long is that?

Speaker 1 39:28
So my first was born September 2019, and my third was born March?

Scott Benner 39:36
Are you making a hockey team? What are you doing over there?

Speaker 1 39:38
I know, right. We did we yeah, we committed.

Scott Benner 39:41
Are you done now? Are you just gonna go for like, a five or something like that? I

Speaker 1 39:46
love four. I've always loved the idea of four, okay, but the diabetes has certainly cooled down my baby fever, it kicked

Scott Benner 39:55
your ass a little bit. We shall see.

Speaker 1 39:59
We shall. See, I'm currently focused on me and my diabetes, and then we'll see. Okay,

Scott Benner 40:07
I don't know. Yeah, no. Priest, could you've added to the total? Well, don't worry, yeah, but Okay, I'm sorry. So now you're pregnant again. No low blood sugars, no

Speaker 1 40:17
lows, none. So I was my fasting was still around nine, but then I was like, 1011, 12, after my meals. So I went to the endocrinologist, and she's like, How can I help you? And I said, Well, this, these are the reasons why I was referred here, but I am now pregnant. And she said, Okay, so we need to ride out this pregnancy as a gestational and then after delivery, we will go back to what's going on. We'll see what happens. So I was three weeks pregnant when I had that blood work done, and my ANC was seven. So this is where it gets questionable. My random sugar at the time was 12.8 and my ANC was seven. And they said, Well, you're only three weeks pregnant, so your your pregnancy doesn't have much effect on your a 1c so your a 1c reflects that you are diabetic, but because you're pregnant, we can't truly diagnose you as a type two diabetic, even though it was only three weeks you're probably type two. We'll just have to wait

Scott Benner 41:17
for I mean, it doesn't matter. You're gonna manage it the way you're gonna manage it, right? Yeah. So,

Speaker 1 41:23
yeah. Well, I had my next end of appointment. It was a few weeks later, and I was thinking, I can't go a few weeks double digits here, like I need insulin. I know I need insulin. And she said, she

Scott Benner 41:38
didn't say we're gonna try to get your blood sugar down. Because for people listening, at 12.8 is a 230 blood sugar and an average, like, nine and a half a 1c so I don't understand, like they she knew that about you, but didn't say we're going to use more insulin and be more aggressive. Yeah,

Speaker 1 41:52
she didn't give me insulin. She sent me to the gestational she sent me to the diabetes clinic, whereas I was at her office, she sent me. She's like, Okay, you're pregnant. Here, go see the team. The team will look after your pregnancy. That's what happened. I understand. So, so then my team, I put on the team,

Scott Benner 42:09
yeah, what's the gap in time? Though, when once she i It feels important to me, she sees you, how long till you see the team?

Speaker 1 42:17
I think I didn't. I don't have that in my notes here. I'm going to guess I think it was two weeks part

Scott Benner 42:23
I don't understand it, really is the part I don't understand. Always Charlie about all these I didn't

Speaker 1 42:28
understand it either. So I phoned them. Now this is a new team, remember, it's not because we moved, so it's a totally they don't know me, right? Whereas my other team for the second pregnancy, they knew me. So I ended up phoning them, saying my appointments in whatever it was two three weeks, I want insulin now, because I know I need it. These are my numbers, and an endo, a different Endo, called me, and he's like, Look, I can't just give you insulin. I don't know who you are, but he asked me a bunch of questions, and I answered them all, and he's like, okay, yeah, here I'll give you. Here's your prescription. So he did give me insulin before I had my first gestational meeting with them, because I called and basically demanded it. I'm like, these are my numbers. I need insulin, and I know what to do. So he did give me insulin before I met him, and then I had my appointment a few weeks later. And this was different management, like they had me titrating, they had me adjusting my numbers, like they gave me the power, like I could do this, yeah, which was really nice, like, because my appointments, because before I had to email them every Sunday and they call me Monday with my adjustments first here, like I'd see them every three weeks, three four weeks. I mean, I could call them if I needed them. They were always there if I had questions, but otherwise, I was left to manage myself. And I really enjoyed that, like I knew what to do. Yeah, well, hell,

Scott Benner 43:59
you got enough practice you know how to make babies and take care of diabetes, that's for sure. Diabetes, that's for sure. Yeah. So that was hugely different for me. At what point do you think during your third pregnancy, if, if, during your third pregnancy, at what point do you realize I'm gonna have diabetes now, like this isn't going away again? Yeah. So that

Speaker 1 44:21
was honestly, I didn't fully get that until the insulin dependency, when, like seven months after she was born. Because what happened? Like it was managed really well. I think the biggest adjustment for me with the third was doing needles for the full nine months. That was a hard pill to swallow, because before it was such a short period, I'm like, Yeah, I can. It's only a few months. Like, it's fine. But so I had to ask my team, like I knew I'd do my insulin and whatnot, but I had to ask them, How do I have dessert? Because I never done that before. I just didn't have. Dessert. How do I do this? So, like, they gave me pointers on how to indulge it. That was one of the hardest things, was making this like a lifestyle, yeah, instead of like a strict regimen of I just don't do that, it was like, Okay, how do I do this safely? And then exercise, because I had two kids, so activity level was a factor, whereas it was not a factor with the other two. So

Scott Benner 45:22
that was, those were the hardest things, like things to hurdle, yeah, to figure

Speaker 1 45:29
out with the third, with it being the full pregnancy on insulin. So the signs for them was that I was going to be type one later was how sensitive I was insulin at the end of the pregnancy because my target, I think fasting, they wanted, I forget now I think it was under seven, so like, my fasting would kind of be creeping up to seven, and then I'd increase my 11 year by one unit, and then the next morning, I'm waking up at four or something like that, and they're like, Wow, That's a big jump. That's a big draw. So then they gave me half unit pens, but half units for 1111, half units for an over rapid because I had a similar issue with food, like with meals, but even then, a half unit would drop me quite a bit. That was, that was the biggest sign for my Endo. I mean, throughout that pregnancy, some people, they'd ask, they'd say, so you're gestational. And I'm like, Well, I don't, I don't know, because I was told. Some people were like, Oh, so you're diabetic and pregnant. I'm like, I guess so. And others are like, but your pregnancy are gestational? Like, I saw different people all the time, like, different, different dietitian, different nurse, different Endo. There was three endos in that clinic, so everybody had a different view as to what I was fantastic, but it was not type one. It was not type one like that was not a thing yet until the very end, like, it was two weeks before baby was due, and he goes, he's like, You need to get this blood work done now, because there's a chance you will need to continue your insulin after the baby's

Scott Benner 47:00
born. And I was like, what?

Speaker 1 47:04
Like, I didn't know that was a thing, right? I got the blood work done on time. I remember phoning the office, like, a few days before she was born, and asking, like, do you have these results yet? Because my baby is about to be born, they told me I might need to continue insulin. I need to know. What am I doing? I need to know so they did, like I had to dig for those adults, they called me and they said, they said, stop your insulin after baby's born. And now I know because I didn't know in the moment, but now I know that was the what is the anti gat like the antibody test, and I was high, like there was I had high antibodies, but my C peptide was fine, so they had me stop the insulin, but I had to continue checking my sugars every like every morning and every meal. And that was not easy to do with a newborn and two toddlers running around. So that was a shock too, because, like, I just had in my mind, this will end when the baby's born, yeah, and then baby's born. And now I need to remember to check my sugars an hour after every meal. So I have these timer set, and the timers are interrupting. Like, I want to have a nap I just had a baby. Like, sleep when the baby sleeps well, I would, but my alarm is about to go off because I had my lunch an hour ago, so I'd have to either skip a blood test, like Skip turn off my alarm, not test my sugars that time, have a nap, but then feel kind of guilty because I'm not collecting this data that my team needs to figure out. What the heck is going on with me is I did not want that those daily lows to happen again. And I knew I'm like, I need to give them this information so that they can diagnose me, like, what's going on? I need that can't happen again all those lows. So I was testing after every meal. Dinner was awful, because the dinner alarm, like the blood check for after dinner, was very often during bedtime with the kids. So it just stopped. It was just constant interruptions, testing, testing my sugars. And then they so she was born March 7. I had my first follow up in April, or the April, and that's when they said, You're type one and a half. And I'm like,

Scott Benner 49:20
what? Like,

Speaker 1 49:21
I never heard of that. Like, never.

Scott Benner 49:25
So they tell you Lada. And, yeah, yeah, right. And so do is that? Has that persisted? Like, is that what they tell you, today or today? Are they just saying you have type one?

Speaker 1 49:37
Well, they don't depend. Some people say, Lada. Some say, well, Lada is type one,

Scott Benner 49:42
yeah. I mean, do you have any honeymoon at all?

Speaker 1 49:44
I don't know. I wondered about that. I didn't know if I was like it was the first few months of being on insulin. Was just a blur. And I don't know if that was honeymooning or if it was just my monthly change from. Sensitive to resistance, like I just, I don't know my endo did at one point say, he said, You're not honeymooning, because honeymooning, honeymooning is when you go from eating insulin to needing no insulin. Well,

Scott Benner 50:10
less. He's like, Yeah, not none, but less so well, well,

Speaker 1 50:16
he said, because I do get quite sensitive on my period and resistant the week before. So he's like, you're not honeymooning. You're just sensitive. So I don't know. I mean, I don't know, just another gray area,

Scott Benner 50:28
yeah, no. I mean, listen, what I'm saying is, how long has it been since you have baby three a year? Okay? And do you forget, like, within the month, like, consistently over the last couple months, you use the same amount of insulin in a month. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I don't think you're honeymooning then, like, I mean, you you have hormonal impacts that ask for more or more insulin or less insulin, but that that does, that's not honeymoon. A honeymoon would be, like, all of a sudden for, you know, days or weeks with no other impact at all, using, like, sometimes significantly less insulin. Or, you know, or out of nowhere, in the middle of the day, all of a sudden, you bolus, and then it's like, oh, God, I didn't need to do this like usual. Like, that's more about, yeah, yeah, more of a, like, a sputter, and, like, a sputtering, you know, ending of your pancreas is its ability to give you insulin. Yes,

Speaker 1 51:22
I don't think. I don't think a honeymooned. I don't think so. Or maybe it was honeymooning through the pregnancy, and you wouldn't know, but it was drowned out by the pregnancy hormone. I don't know, but he told me he's like, You are type one and a half. He said, that starts out like type two, but then turns into type one. And he said, I don't want this to hang over you, but I'm going to give you a ketone meter. And he's like, because a a severe, like the bad, like a bad case of the flu could be what turns you to type one, something like that. And it didn't hang over me because I didn't know what type one management looked like. I had no idea like, if I could go back and tell me, then, hey, go listen to the juicebox podcast to learn how to use insulin while you're not pregnant. OmniPod, that would be so would have made my insulin dependency so much easier. Oh, no kidding, because I didn't know. Like, I just didn't know. I don't know any type ones. I had asked them before during the pregnancy, like, what does type two management look like? And they said, Yeah, you check your sugars a few times a week, and you generally, like, there's medications for it. So,

Scott Benner 52:35
like, that's also a fairly inaccurate description of how to, well, take care of type two diabetes. Yeah. Well, I mean, listen, you you get you're gonna get flung right into that world of nobody really knows what they're talking about, or if they do, they don't do a great job of explaining it. And you know now, here you are. But how are you doing today? Like, what's your management look like today? I'm

Speaker 1 52:55
pumping now. I've been pumping for a month. It was a blur, like, so they told me in April was I'm type one and a half, and they're like, type one can happen next week, next year, five years, they don't know. So, like, just keep to keep monitoring, is what they said. So that's what I did. I kept checking my sugars. They kept checking like, they kept doing blood work. They put me on Metformin in August, end of August, and I did ask for insulin. I didn't know, like, again, I didn't know that what type one management looked like. I just knew type ones used insulin and like, I didn't know. I'm, like, is it a like, is it a weekly insulin? Because that would be nice. Like, I'm, like, I could do once a week needles. Like, that's fine. Or, like, once, here's

Scott Benner 53:39
what I'm willing to do. Yeah, yeah. So

Speaker 1 53:42
I asked about it, because they put me on Metformin, and I'm like, Look, I already have a sensitive gut. I've heard it can have gut side effects. What about insulin? Because I was, I think I was hitting like, 14, 1314, after meals sometimes, but I was still hitting four at times. So they're like, you're not high enough for insulin. For sure, insulin will turn your 13 is into like, a 10 or nine or an eight, but then it'll turn your fours into a two or a one. So they're like, you're not high enough for insulin. They put me on Metformin. My sugar would definitely better on Metformin. I was even getting into the fours, like, especially if I went for a walk, it definitely was good for my sugars. I My gut couldn't handle it. Like, I couldn't, so I was only on it for a month, like, I I stuck to it for a month, because they did say, my pharmacist said, like, your stomach can adjust to it, like, get used to it. So I gave it a month and it, it didn't, you

Scott Benner 54:42
didn't feel better. No,

Speaker 1 54:44
I stopped the end of September, and I also stopped testing my sugars. I was usually testing because I felt funny, anyways, because I was getting lower, but for like that three weeks, I didn't test my sugars. And I knew I should have, but I wasn't, because I'm like, Ah, on my next I know they'll just give me a different pill. Pill. I'm, like, they'll just pick a different pill or something. Like, I'm

Scott Benner 55:04
gonna take a break. I'll take a break for a month till we get back to that. Yeah,

Speaker 1 55:08
like, I mean, I had a baby, my middle child in diapers, my oldest had just started school. Like, it was a lot, it's chaotic. And so I didn't, I didn't check unless I felt funny or whatever, but I didn't really check for the three weeks. So then I had, I had my annual appointment, and he's like, Well, what have your sugars been? And I said, Well, I haven't been checking, but like, this is what they were when I was on Metformin. And he's like, Well, check your sugars right now. And I was 19, oh, and I had never, ever seen a number that high, never, yeah. The dietician went, Whoa, insulin. And he and the endo goes, Yeah, insulin. And I said, But wait, like, I just had lunch,

Scott Benner 55:55
you don't know. And he's like, he's like, that

Speaker 1 55:58
doesn't he's like, Well, what do you drink? Because I drink because I drink water. I always drink water. He was like, No, 19, yeah, yeah. He's like, 19 means your pancreas are shocked, right? You need insulin.

Scott Benner 56:09
I could go drink a two liter bottle of soda, and my blood sugar might go to 160

Speaker 1 56:13
Yeah. So then he goes, so then they're talking, the dietitian, and the end over talking, he they're talking, they're saying, like, so basic alarm the morning and over wrap it with meals. And that's

Scott Benner 56:27
when it hit me, like, I diabetes, Yeah, no kidding.

Speaker 1 56:32
It was like, like, I'm getting emotional just thinking about it. Because I thought I was done with that, because I gave birth, right?

Scott Benner 56:40
I tried to, I pushed out the baby and the diabetes. I thought, Yeah, no kidding.

Speaker 1 56:44
So then it was like, oh my god, I'm on needles like, for the rest of my life. Like it was, I was in chalk, like, I think it was compared like I I couldn't believe it. So that I'm processing that of like a needle with every meal and the morning and like

Scott Benner 57:09
it was, I just wasn't. I didn't

Speaker 1 57:13
know. I wasn't expecting that. Like, even with the one and a half diagnosis, nobody had said, Hey, like they had said, it'll turn into type one. But no one had said he didn't really know what that meant like. And I didn't think, yeah, I didn't know what it meant. So they put a libre on me, right, and sent me home with a prescription. And he said, he said, start with eight units of basal glare in the morning. And I think it was three units of Nova rapid per meal. That's all your direction. That was it. And I remember thinking, maybe they have more trust in me, because I already have experience with this. No,

Scott Benner 57:48
that's not it. Charlie, what happens is, no one tells anybody. You know, I am never not gobsmacked and think to myself, how is everyone even alive? Like, here, just take some insulin. It'll work out. Like, okay, yeah,

Speaker 1 58:00
right. And I did, so I kind of, I went into this overconfident. I know that now because of my gestational so I thought, Okay, this like needles with every meal and every morning. That's what I did. So I can do this. I had this false it was false. Common is I would figure it out, because I what they told me when I'm pregnant is the

Scott Benner 58:25
pregnancy hormones affect your sugars, and I'm like, Okay, well, I'm not

Speaker 1 58:30
pregnant, so I won't have that roller coaster. I'll figure out my dose, and I'll be good to go.

Scott Benner 58:36
It still felt like taking a pill to you, but through a needle. Yes, yeah, exactly. Because

Speaker 1 58:41
I thought I'll just figure out my dose, like I will put my heart into this, like I was weighing everything, I was measuring all my food accurately, and I was trying to figure out the right dose, and I was never I couldn't get it.

Scott Benner 58:58
There's a reason for that.

Speaker 1 59:01
I mean, now I know like it's so much better now, but at the start of it and eight units was way too high, but I didn't know that. So then I'm getting low between meals, which was normal with pregnancy, so I'm snacking, and then I'm getting high before my next meal. And and my appointments are a few weeks apart, so I'm on my own for a few weeks, and I can call them if I want to, but I also thought, Why call them like I'm allowed to adjust. I'll do my own adjusting and tell them what I've been doing. So then at some point they said, like you're not you shouldn't snack on carbs between your meals. Type ones don't do that, like meat and like protein and veg between meals. Like, okay. I mean, I guess that kind of makes sense. So that was an adjustment. Like, I just went into this thinking, like, I know how to do this, but I didn't, like, no clue. But the pregnancy made me think I did. And the other thing he never told me, he just. Said, this is your target. You need to be between four and 10, so adjust your insulin until you're within target. While I was 19, no one told me, like, Hey, do this slowly. The next few days, I'm just doing my like, I'm going to target. And then I had, I guess, a sugar withdrawal. I don't know what it is, but my vision was so blurry I could barely read my phone. Oh, because

Scott Benner 1:00:27
you were bringing your blood sugar down so quickly. Yes, and,

Speaker 1 1:00:31
but I didn't know that in the moment. So I'm trying to Google like, is this a weird Is this a low? Like, am I going to pass out?

Scott Benner 1:00:42
Yeah, what? Why can't I see?

Speaker 1 1:00:44
Why can't I see? Oh, the other thing, when he gave me the insulin, he also gave me a prescription for Vax. Is it vaccine? Me thing? And I said, What's this? And he said, Oh, that's in case you're unconscious from the low blood sugar, someone else can spray it up your nose.

Scott Benner 1:01:03
What a description I was like, what like? Because

Speaker 1 1:01:08
I was on insulin before, when I was pregnant, nobody ever gave me this. No one ever like that wasn't a thing. So I'm leaving with like, Okay, I could pass out, and someone else will need to stay like, what? Like, I was just so confused, yeah. So then I'm scared, because I'm like, okay, the chance of me passing out must be high enough,

Scott Benner 1:01:32
because they've given gave me the squee, yeah, gave me

Speaker 1 1:01:35
this thing to fix that. I'm home with a baby and two toddlers. What am I? Who's gonna save me?

Scott Benner 1:01:45
Charlie? Which one of these kids Am I gonna put in charge of shooting powder in my nose?

Speaker 1 1:01:50
Yes. Well, so then, anytime I felt funny, my first thought was, if I pass out right now, are the kids okay?

Scott Benner 1:01:59
No, not if you fall, for sure, you're gonna squish one of them.

Speaker 1 1:02:04
I pass out on the floor right now. Is the baby? Like, where's the baby? Where the kids are they? Like, where are they? Yeah, you

Scott Benner 1:02:10
have this whole new fear, yeah,

Speaker 1 1:02:13
I was terrified, damn, right? Because I'm I'm home with the three kids. So

Scott Benner 1:02:18
where's your husband? By the way,

Unknown Speaker 1:02:20
he works for, for hydro,

Scott Benner 1:02:21
is that he

Unknown Speaker 1:02:23
fixed. He's a lineman. He's

Scott Benner 1:02:25
a lineman. Okay, all right, so he's gone, he's he works, yeah, he's gone all day, literally, up a pole, Yep, yeah, a lot of that's what got you in trouble, by the way, with the adjustation. But yeah, I hear what you're saying. I assume he's gone for long stretches then he comes back. You missed him? No, no, it's not like that. Okay, no, he's

Speaker 1 1:02:47
home every he works seven to three, Monday to Friday. Oh, you have time. He works a lot of overtime, but he's gone all day. Yeah, yeah. So the fear

Scott Benner 1:02:56
pay for insulin.

Unknown Speaker 1:03:01
The fear was huge. Yeah, I

Scott Benner 1:03:02
imagine I'm not No joking like, I mean, it's the idea that I could pass out and I have three little kids with me is overwhelming. Yeah,

Speaker 1 1:03:11
now, over time, I learned to trust the tools, and I knew, and like, I learned after a few weeks, I don't know it was such a blur, because I tried so hard to be perfect too, and then I was so hard on myself, so fixated on target, that's where I really went wrong. Is like four, four to 10. I need to be between four and 10 and under seven in the morning. So if I was over seven in the morning, I'd increase my basal glare, because that's all I knew to do. Like, Target,

Scott Benner 1:03:41
Oh, you were being too reactive. Yeah, the wrong thing.

Speaker 1 1:03:47
Like trying so hard to be perfect, and it was just causing this roller coaster. Yeah, I didn't know to connect all these dots. I didn't know. Okay, maybe my fasting was high today because we had a movie night last night. Like, I didn't know to analyze it that way. It was just, oh, my fasting was high. It's been high for a day or two or three. I'll increase my long acting well, then I'm getting low between meals and in the night, and then, because that

Scott Benner 1:04:11
wasn't the problem, your your long

Speaker 1 1:04:12
problem. But I didn't know it yet, because I didn't, I hadn't found the podcast yet. I was stuck on with my gestational experience, like that was the only experience I had. So I was kind of Yep. That's what was guiding me mostly. I mean, I had my team, but that's only a one hour ish appointment every few weeks. Yeah, and

Scott Benner 1:04:35
they're not all that helpful, let's be honest. Like, you know what? I mean, they only, well,

Speaker 1 1:04:39
they only look at the last week, let's say. But then there was two or three other weeks that I was struggling that they're not analyzing to tell me where I'm going wrong or not. And I didn't know about compression lows, like I'd pricked my finger a few times during the day, like, Hey, can I trust this thing on my arm? And it was accurate. I'm like, okay, I can trust. Said I didn't know about compression, though, so I'm getting these lows in the night. I'm just getting up and drinking juice because I didn't know to question it like a compression, though. Until the one morning I woke up and it's screaming that I'm like, 3.9 and dropping, and I'm like, I don't feel that. I

Scott Benner 1:05:15
don't think that's right. So

Speaker 1 1:05:17
then I tested on like, seven. I'm like, my god, like now I can't even

Scott Benner 1:05:23
now you feel like you can't trust that. No, no, yeah, there's a cascading thing that happens as you're learning. And I, I'm always fascinated when somebody thinks to grab a different meter and test their blood sugar again, and then they see the two different numbers, and that like, frozen feeling. It gives you of like, if that one said 83 and that one said 105 then what am I? And then, you know, these are all what they call come to Jesus moments when you when you start really understanding, you know what this is going to be, and you accept it. That's really the big part. It's just the acceptance of it. Charlie, I appreciate you sharing this story with me very much. Is there anything we didn't talk we didn't talk about that you wanted to because I'm up on time, but

Speaker 1 1:06:05
I was just looking at the time. We didn't even make it to my pumping.

Scott Benner 1:06:09
Yeah, see that? No. Well, you did a really. So it I don't know how interesting this is to people, but there are some people that I interview who are very leadable. They'll tell a bit of a story. I ask a question that takes the story in the direction that I'd like it to go in because it feels natural to me. And people like will answer. And then there are some people who know how they want to tell their story. I can affect it. You're one of those people. So so in the beginning, in the beginning, in the first 10 minutes, if anybody wants to listen back for a podcast lesson about how to interview somebody, I tried to do what is most comfortable for me. You didn't respond to it, so I adjusted to what's more comfortable to for you. So if you would have let me, I could have got us through it faster.

Speaker 1 1:06:57
But now I didn't even realize you were

Scott Benner 1:07:01
resistant, oh, but not in a bad way. I just, and I've learned that it's better for you to tell your story the way you want to tell it than for me to cram you into my style, because then every time I've tried to do that, it makes people they're on. I don't know what the word is, but it's not as smooth, so I don't do it anyway. No, I think you did a great job, you know. And then we'll say, and you move to pumping it happily ever after, not quite, but not quite. You're still getting it

Speaker 1 1:07:28
hopefully. Well, I'm only six weeks in. What are you using? A learning curve as well. You're

Scott Benner 1:07:33
using OmniPod, no tandem control, IQ, mobi, yes, regular. There's

Speaker 1 1:07:40
only, there's only three pump options in Canada, and so Medtronic tandem or omnipodge. So it's tandem teasing, okay, is what I'm on.

Scott Benner 1:07:49
And you're still, you're still figuring out. Tesla, have you tried the control IQ ninja episode?

Unknown Speaker 1:07:55
Not yet. You

Scott Benner 1:07:57
would want to find that one that's a good one. Yes. Okay, for sure. All right, so g6 control IQ, on on the on the T slim, and you're just getting into it now you're digging in and learning,

Speaker 1 1:08:10
yeah, so I'm following the rules of the pump to try and just see what the pump can do, testing the boundaries, like, hey, if I eat this, can control IQ, control it, that kind of thing. And then I know in time I'll start maybe, like, taking some carbs. I've heard people will do that stuff like that, like breaking the rules at the pump. I suppose you

Scott Benner 1:08:30
should check out that episode. I'm gonna tell you what episode number. Just hold on a

Unknown Speaker 1:08:33
second. I

Unknown Speaker 1:08:34
it's, it's on my to do list for sure. Okay. It's,

Scott Benner 1:08:37
um, 662, wow. I have four. I have three episodes with the word ninja in it. I have control IQ ninja. 662, somehow episode 290, from 2019 is called theoretical ninja. And then episode 800 is lazy control IQ ninja, which I remember this woman's like, I want to come on, like I heard control IQ ninja, and I really like, and as she was describing it, she's like, I'm more of like, a lazy ninja.

Speaker 1 1:09:05
That's hilarious. Yeah, I need to listen to more pumping episodes for sure. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:09:10
understanding how, you know, even understanding how loop works, and OmniPod five works, and and all the different algorithms, like, just getting a vibe for how algorithms work helps you to understand how your specific one is doing, what it's doing, even if they're not like exactly apples to apples. There's you need to understand no matter how your system does it that concept of raising basal, lowering it, taking it completely away, giving it back again, like this constant dance that's going on with insulin, little micro boluses with some of them, bigger boluses with some of them, like, how is it like, you know, loop sometimes will put all the insulin in, like, for a meal, and then completely just take away the basal for hours and work off of just the bolus, and then suddenly start. Reintroducing the basal. It's, it's, um, it's, it's interesting. And you learn about a lot about diabetes, watching your pump do what it's doing. Yeah,

Speaker 1 1:10:09
I'm always going back in the history to see, like, what did it do? What am I what am I pump doing? How did I respond when

Scott Benner 1:10:16
Arden first went from just manual pumping to looping, and I had, and still have the night Scout app, and I was watching it, give her insulin, take it away and give it and take it away. I was like, Oh, my God, it's doing what I was doing. Because if you listen to the to the Pro Tip series, you hear me talk about, like, you know, temp basal increases. Temp basal decreases. Like, you know, create, like, black holes where there's no insulin for a little bit like, so there's a stop, a drop, and, like, I talk about all that stuff that I figured out completely on my own. And then I was, I'm watching the algorithm work, and I'm like, oh, it's doing what I was doing. That's so interesting. Yeah, how cool is that? So? And now I sleep. So, ha, ha, yes, yeah. Anyway, all right, Charlie, I'm gonna let you go. I think we're definitely calling this one Beavertail. Okay, otherwise, I just have to call it. There's no chocolate factory. And that doesn't make any sense at all. No, but, but I really do appreciate you doing this. And like, people don't know, but like, you had to set up, you had to set up all these raccoons to run on this thing to make electricity so that you could get online. And it's a lot of work to be on if you're Canadian, a lot of work. Yeah, so I appreciate you doing that very much. Thank you. Great. Way north. Oh, please. Hey, real quick, strange brew. Do you know the movie? Yes. Okay, I I'm now asking every Canadian that, like, you know how I ask, like, Are there any other autoimmune issues in your family? Which I didn't ask you. Are there any other autoimmune issues in your family?

Unknown Speaker 1:11:41
No, not

Scott Benner 1:11:42
that I know of. Okay. Do you have anything else? Celiac, thyroid, anything like that? No, okay, not

Unknown Speaker 1:11:48
yet. At least the last

Scott Benner 1:11:49
two Canadians I've interviewed have not known the movie strange brew, and one of them didn't even know who Rick Moranis was. So, oh, I am now going to try to remember to ask every Canadian, these questions, you should I'm going to I love you, by the way. You are so Canadian. That's fantastic, Charlie. I don't know if you know that or not, but I didn't know that. Oh, okay, you'll listen back and you'll hear it. You'll be like, Okay, I am very Canadian. I will listen for it. Nothing wrong with it. Just interesting. All right. Hold on one second. For me, I really appreciate you doing this. I want to thank the ever since CGM for sponsoring this episode of The juicebox podcast and invite you to go to Eversense cgm.com/juicebox to learn more about this terrific device, you can head over now and just absorb everything that the website has to offer, and that way you'll know if Eversense feels right for you. Eversense cgm.com/juicebox, the conversation you just enjoyed was sponsored by OmniPod five. You want to get an OmniPod five you can you want to make me happy? Do it with my link. Omnipod.com/juicebox if you're looking for community around type one diabetes, check out the juicebox podcast. Private, Facebook group. Juicebox podcast, type one diabetes, but everybody is welcome. Type one type two, gestational loved ones. It doesn't matter to me. If you're impacted by diabetes and you're looking for support, comfort or community, check out juicebox podcast. Type one diabetes on Facebook. Okay, well, here we are at the end of the episode. You're still with me. Thank you. I really do appreciate that. What else could you do for me? Uh, why don't you tell a friend about the show or leave a five star review. Maybe you could make sure you're following or subscribed in your podcast app, go to YouTube and follow me or Instagram. Tiktok. Oh gosh, here's one. Make sure you're following the podcast in the private Facebook group as well as the public Facebook page you don't want to miss. Please do not know about the private group. You have to join the private group as of this recording, it has 51,000 members in it. They're active, talking about diabetes, whatever you need to know. There's a conversation happening in there right now, and I'm there all the time. Tag me. I'll say, hi, hey. What's up everybody? If you've noticed that the podcast sounds better. And you're thinking like, how does that happen? What you're hearing is Rob at wrong way recording, doing his magic to these files. So if you want him to do his magic to you, wrong wayrecording.com, you got a podcast. You want somebody to edit it. You want rob you.