#1120 Black Hole Kitchen

January 31, 2024Scott Benner

Mitchell has type 1 diabetes and had a heart attack at age 26.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 1120 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Michel is 33 years old he's had type one diabetes for 19 years diagnosed at 14 years old. And he had a heart attack when he was 26. Mitchell's a once he was high until his 30s, and now he takes his diabetes much more seriously. And now his agency is 6.6 Mitchell uses a do it yourself algorithm and my editor's notes here say there's some good comedy at the end of this one. I have to admit, I don't remember. I'm going to trust Rob at wrong way recording wrong way. recording.com. Please don't forget that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan or becoming bold with insulin. When you place your first order for ag one with my link, you'll get five free travel packs, and a free year supply of vitamin D. Drink ag one.com/juice box. If you're not already subscribed or following in your favorite audio app, please take the time now to do that. It really helps the show and get those automatic downloads set up so you never miss an episode.

This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the insulin pump that my daughter wears Omni pod. Learn more and get started today with the Omni pod dash or the Omni pod five at my link Omni pod.com/juice box. My

Mitchell 1:49
name is Mitchell and I've been type one diabetic for 19 years. What are you measuring? 33

Scott Benner 1:57
in 33? That's you're working 14? Yeah. Wow. How about that? Okay. Interesting age. Any other type one in your family?

Mitchell 2:10
And not that I'm aware of?

Scott Benner 2:13
Do you have any other autoimmune issues?

Mitchell 2:15
No, not that I'm aware of? that I'm aware of. But I don't know long down the family tree. I don't know about that.

Scott Benner 2:24
But how about you yourself?

Mitchell 2:25
No, me? No.

Scott Benner 2:27
Okay. All right. So you're kind of a an island in this family. Is it a big family or not really?

Mitchell 2:34
Medium? I guess not. Not huge, but not small.

Scott Benner 2:38
That is definitely what medium means perfectly. So what do you remember about getting type one?

Mitchell 2:45
I remember. I was in grade eight. And I was supposed to play in a band concert because I played the saxophone. And my dad was like, You're not going. Okay. And because I lost a bunch of weight. I'm so thirsty. The typical signs. And so I had a doctor's appointment after school one day and they had to chase me around the doctor's office to poke my finger. Then I ended up in the hospital for two weeks at Children's Hospital. And yeah, that was my 14th birthday present from the world. It was five days after my 14th birthday. That was

Scott Benner 3:30
that they kept you in there for two weeks. Were you in DKA?

Mitchell 3:33
Yeah, I, I believe so. My blood sugar was like 2028 or something. Okay. Your blood sugar. Where do you live? I live in Surrey, British Columbia. And 28

Scott Benner 3:48
that threw me off for a second. I'm looking here. Hold on one second. I have on my website. A one cm blood glucose calculator conversion tool. It's free. Anybody can use it. Yes,

Mitchell 4:02
I have used it. Oh,

Scott Benner 4:03
thank you. And I'm going to use it right now. Oh, 504 was your blood sugar? 20 Okay, yeah. Oh, nice and high. Canada. changes it. They start you with what kind of insulin?

Mitchell 4:18
I was on. cumulant are in England. And

Scott Benner 4:22
how long did you use those?

Mitchell 4:24
Oh, probably. Eight years.

Scott Benner 4:28
Wow. Okay. What was the first change from that to what what was your next step?

Mitchell 4:34
I went to a pee draw. And Lantus. Peter

Scott Benner 4:43
and Lantus. How about that? You might be the first person who's ever said to me, I went to a pager. I'm not kidding. Yeah, I am not kidding. I don Arden uses a pager. We love it. We've used it for years. I do not hear a lot of people say we use a pager.

Mitchell 5:00
Yeah, I thought it was anything is better than human aren't and but I thought it worked well for me at the time. Yeah. What are you using now? Human log you 200

Scott Benner 5:12
Oh, did your needs go up?

Mitchell 5:15
I've used Omnipod. So the regular strength was not allowing me to use the pump for the full two and a half to three days, whatever. So my endocrinologist was like, well, we can do this. Perfect.

Scott Benner 5:29
Beautiful, how long have you been doing that?

Mitchell 5:32
Sure. Maybe a year, and you're in a couple of months? I've been wonderful. Alright,

Scott Benner 5:38
so what's it like? Growing up with older, like an older management system? I mean, I'm assuming you were just shooting once or twice a day. Is that about right?

Mitchell 5:51
I was actually injecting like, four to five times a day, really? At meals. Yeah. So I do my, because I split my long acting. So I do that. And then I would do correction doses, and then I would also do meals, and then corrections on top of

Scott Benner 6:10
that, so Okay, all right. You so you were covering your meals and correcting with your, with your hands.

Mitchell 6:15
Yeah.

Scott Benner 6:16
What were your outcomes? Like? How were you tracking your, your health?

Mitchell 6:21
I was using the Dexcom app to enter in my insulin. And what I've been taking, but other than that, I didn't really, at that time, I didn't really do anything else I wasn't really curious might sound weird, but I didn't really have great endocrinologist. Through my years. Finally, I do have one who actually explained since me and how they will affect you. But

Scott Benner 6:45
nice. Mitchell, I don't think I was clear a second ago. So I want to apologize. You were just telling me about your care with a pager. Right? Not with your first insolence, when you were first diagnosed?

Mitchell 6:56
Correct. Okay,

Scott Benner 6:57
sorry about that. I was, I wasn't clear, I realized that as you're answering. I'm like, I didn't ask that correctly. So that's eight years in your, like, 22. When you start doing that? Yes. Okay. Prior to that, in the beginning, then you were just shooting like twice a day.

Mitchell 7:20
I remember how I would take it. I think I would do like it was 10 units of accumulation. And and then I think it was like 10 and 10. I would take Okay, at each at each like in the morning and then at night. So

Scott Benner 7:35
back then how are they measuring your success? Was it an agency or was it just they wouldn't say Do you know what they were already have any idea?

Mitchell 7:44
I don't know. Exact numbers, but I knew I know. They weren't great. I was over 10 For sure. Most of my child diabetic journey.

Scott Benner 7:54
Wow. From like, 14 into your 20s.

Mitchell 7:58
Yeah, actually into my 30s Oh,

Scott Benner 8:01
okay. Oh, you're just, you're just coming around. What? What a doctor say to you as a child, like, what's your like, I know, you're not going to remember the words, but what's the enduring feeling that you had going to a doctor's visit? It

Mitchell 8:14
was if you don't get your agency under control, you're gonna you're gonna die or you're gonna, you know, lose some limbs or all that kind of thing. That's what my, my first endocrinologist said

Scott Benner 8:26
to me. Do you remember what that did? To you?

Mitchell 8:29
Do you remember what sorry, say that again?

Scott Benner 8:32
Those words from the doctor? How did they impact you? Today's episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by Omni pod. And before I tell you about Omni pod, the device I'd like to tell you about Omni pod. That company. I approached Omni pod in 2015 and asked them to buy an ad on a podcast that I hadn't even begun to make yet. Because the podcast didn't have any listeners. All I could promise them was that I was going to try to help people living with type one diabetes. And that was enough for Omni pod. They bought their first ad. And I use that money to support myself while I was growing the Juicebox Podcast. You might even say that Omni pod is the firm foundation of the Juicebox Podcast. And it's actually the firm foundation of how my daughter manages her type one diabetes every day. Omni pod.com/juicebox whether you want the Omni pod five, or the Omni pod dash using my link lets Omni pod know what a good decision they made in 2015 and continue to make to this day. Omni pod is easy to use, easy to fill, easy to wear. And I know that because my daughter has been wearing one every day since she was four years old, and she will be 20 this year. There is not enough time in an ad for me to tell you everything that I know about Omni pod, but please take a look Omni pod.com/juice box I think Omni pod could be a good friend to you. Just like it has been to my daughter and my family.

Mitchell 10:07
It made me not want to go there. And I was just like me, I'm not going. So I didn't go to back to him, I went to a different endocrinologist. And then she also looked better. She basically spent five minutes with you. And she later on, it's like, Well, what did you? What did you learn about me? Or how to help me? So?

Scott Benner 10:29
Wow, that's terrible. And was this parent went with you? I imagine. But my dad, yeah. Do you remember? Like then how that impacted him. And what he then said to you, who

Mitchell 10:43
basically called the first one, as well as well. So like that was happy. But, you know, you got to wait through the public medical system to find another one. Right. So it takes take some time.

Scott Benner 10:59
So your dad knew enough? That That wasn't helpful what the doctor was saying? Correct? All right. So he was on your side? Yeah, that must have felt good. At least. It's, it's interesting, isn't it? That someone would say to you, you are in a predicament. And if you do not get out of this predicament, I might cut off one of your limbs like they is a pretty, pretty crazy thing to say. And then not then not follow up that statement with here's how we're going to get out of the predicament. Just you exactly. You 1516 1718 1920 year old Mitchell, you go out in the world and figure it out. That was it. Yeah, yeah. Do you think they didn't know?

Mitchell 11:43
I don't know. I mean, I feel like if you're an endocrinologist, you should you should know hopefully, probably know what you're doing.

Scott Benner 11:55
Our conversation is happening on a really strange damage. So because I obviously don't know where what you and I are going to talk about is going to lead. And this morning, I'll share something with you. And you'll be the only one who knows about it for six months. How's that sound to you and make your own little secret? Perfect, Jenny and I are going to make a series that I am thinking I'm going to call Grand Rounds. And we are going to build a syllabus about how we would teach doctors to talk to people with diabetes.

Mitchell 12:32
So brilliant, brilliant idea.

Scott Benner 12:35
I figured nobody better than Jenny Right? Like she does it all day long. She helps people constantly much, you know, and with a ton of success. And then you know, I'll do like that thing where I come in. And I'm like, all folksy and I make it easy to understand. Perfect. So that's my partner's I go oh, is what you mean this. Then everybody goes, I just heard something really technical followed up by a dummy who made it simple to understand. I'm the dummy. I guess. Yeah. I'm the little

Mitchell 13:07
it takes takes multiple people to make, make it explainable. Right. Everyone can explain it. But do people understand it?

Scott Benner 13:16
Yeah. Well, to give you an idea that, you know, Jen and I are talking about this, obviously, privately at the moment, but I'm also looking for input from listeners. And so I posted on my private Facebook group one hour ago, okay, it's a post that you won't be able to find six months now when you're listening. But that's not the point. Here's the point. All it says is grand rounds. juicebox. Now, what do you want your doctor to know? What do you wish your doctor would have told you? What Doesn't your doctor know that they should? I'm putting you in charge of Grand Rounds. Your comments may be used in an upcoming Juicebox Podcast series. One hour ago, it has 42 comments already. Already, I can see that. Yeah. Because people know, they know what they weren't told. And they and they know where that lack of information led them to they're the exact right people to ask this question to. So you're going to ask the questions of them. Jenny and I are gonna put together kind of a syllabus. And then we're gonna meld the two kind of collections of information together and then put them into conversational form. So hopefully doctors will listen in their cars or laying in their cots or whatever they do when they're learning to be doctors.

Mitchell 14:28
Anyway. Yeah, that's a great thing to do. Hopefully they utilize it. Yeah,

Scott Benner 14:35
and I speak and in Canada, they speak Canadian and American so they'll be able to listen to perfect Yes. Once in a while during the series. I'll go Oh, and that way, I'll keep everybody engaged. Just throw it in a or I'll bring up ice hockey people go oh, okay. I love okay. And then that'll be it. Yeah, I love it. Okay, so I'm going to fast forward you a little bit in your in your story. That's a long time, right? If you're 33 now and you're telling me you didn't like, pull this together until until you were in your 30s then I want to know what got you there? Well,

Mitchell 15:17
when I was 26, I had a heart attack. Battle

Scott Benner 15:24
can get you there, Mitchell. Holy shit. God, hold on, mother. I gotta keep writing down where I cursed. I'll just write lots of curses. That took me by surprise. Go ahead. I'm sorry.

Mitchell 15:37
Yeah, it was March 11 of 2016. And I had, you know, pain in my butt in between my shoulder blade and like my spine, I guess. I ended up in emergency. And I was different nine hours. And they couldn't find anything wrong, until I was just about to walk up the hospital door. And they're like, actually, can you just come sit down here actually just getting this bed? What the hell's going on? And I guess from the blood tests that they took, they found troponin, and that kind of what gave them that, but I waited nine hours before they determined what it was. And yeah, had a stent put in and that was on a Friday. I was out by Monday. Make

Scott Benner 16:28
sure you You took me by surprise. I'm, I'm crying a little. I'm sorry. Hold on a second. I didn't expect this. My mom passed away recently. I think I'm like, extra emotional.

Mitchell 16:39
Oh, yeah. But the thing Yeah.

Scott Benner 16:42
I just started thinking about Arlen. And you're 26 and I thought I don't know what I thought exactly. I felt kind of grateful that I was able to figure it out. You know, and, and I felt really terrible for you. I'm so sorry. Okay. Why don't I try to be a tiny bit professional. I'll pull myself together. That guy took me by surprise. You're like I had a heart attack. The tears came out of my eyes. By myself in a room Mitchell. It's ridiculous. Oh, okay. Well, anyway, God damn, how long were you in the hospital for the heart attack and the stent

Mitchell 17:22
that was put in Friday, and I was discharged on Monday?

Scott Benner 17:26
How do they explain to you that you have a blockage when you're 26? They

Mitchell 17:30
weren't actually sure. Until they did the procedure. They said it's either your, you have a blockage or the fluid around your heart is inflamed, and that's what's causing the pain when I said, okay, and then they rushed me to one of the top Kardi cardiac hospitals in Vancouver, and they had to go through my groin and put in a stent. And that's how they told me basically, that there was a blockage. And then they kind of give you like a piece of paper that you get when you leave the hospital that basically shows exactly where your blockage was, and how blocked it was. So I was 100% blocked in my proximal RCA.

Scott Benner 18:24
And this is from diabetes, I imagine. Yes. Yeah. You know, when you you started to say cardiac a minute ago, and you kind of stumbled through and you went cardi, and my brain said Cardi B impersonator? Which I thought, that's probably not what he's gonna say. No, they sent me to a cardi and I went Cardi B impersonator? No. Why would that be? My next thought was Cardi B wasn't even famous back then. Scott. This is silly. Yeah, you're done. That's true. I'm a little all over the place. Mitchell. I'm sorry. Correct me? I don't know. By the way, it cracked me up. None of the rest of you heard it. If I don't tell you about it, then I'm just giggling over here through your cardiac story, which doesn't seem right. So I had to tell you what happened. Okay, so this is what happens like for everybody listening, too much sugar in your blood rubs, rubs, rubs causes a whole your body patches the whole, too much sugar rubs, Rob's rubs causes a whole your body patches the whole eventually the patch is blocked the pathway and heart attack. That's high blood sugar. That's what high blood sugar can do. When somebody tells you they died from a cardiac arrest from diabetes, this is very likely what they're talking about damage done to the muscle, the surrounding area that your body just couldn't keep ahead of any more and that damage usually leads to a blockage. You got it when you were 26 Oh, wow, you're shooting 10 and 10. Maybe you should have been shooting more

Mitchell 19:59
ah approval at that time I was I was on a Peter. No.

Scott Benner 20:02
But I mean, back in the day when you lived all Oh, yes, yeah. All those years is that and people are telling you, you're okay. Or they're just hustling you in and out in five minutes in a doctor's appointment not helping you telling you, you're gonna lose a limb. Oh, wow. But people suck. Well, so is that a Scared Straight moment for you? What happens next?

Mitchell 20:24
Yeah, I kind of took it more seriously. I tried to, you know, understand when how much insulin I'm supposed to give myself because nobody ever told me what a insulin sensitivity factor was, or a car ratio or any of that I had no idea. What is that? So I was able to get myself like under the 10, just with NDI. But it wasn't until I was turning 30 or 31 When I got in with GOP, DC diabetes, and they helped me get to where I am now with understanding what and I have stuff is carb ratio, and they helped me get on the pump and Dexcom all that. And starting looping. And I just recently got 6.6 something. Let's see. Wow, congratulations.

Scott Benner 21:24
That's wonderful. I'm, I'm still stuck back on it took them 12 years and a heart attack to help you. But you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna look forward with you. Because I think that's probably a more positive way to take this conversation. That's wonderful. I'm so glad you met somebody that was able to do that for you. Do you think it was just the transition from the old like, the old ways, like shoot couple times a day, and that's that and then you moved into a faster acting insulin, but you didn't really know how to use it. So you just sort of kept? Like, somebody probably just told you back then Well, now you can, like, you know, shoot for your meals. And if you have a high blood sugar, you can put in insulin, and that was probably the extent of your direction back then. Right?

Mitchell 22:05
Yeah, for for cumulate. RNN look, definitely. But for like a Piedra and land test. It was I was taking like 45 units of land test. And then it was like, take 10 units every time you eat. Clearly, that wasn't enough. So that was kind of the instructions I got. But just you know, that's not the way it works. Yeah.

Scott Benner 22:31
Rob, if somebody tells you that's what you do, then why would you think differently? Yeah, yeah. Wow, they're part of me feels like every doctor's office should recall every one of their patients using insulin right now. Call them in and sit them down in a big room and go, Hey, listen, it is possible that some of you got bad advice. Let's start over. Here's the math to figure out your insulin to carb ratio. Let's do that all together. Now get out a piece of paper, shall we? Like that's? Yeah. Wow. How about that? It's terrible. Oh, wow. So you're looping?

Mitchell 23:03
Did you say? Yeah, well, I'm on IEP s right now. No

Scott Benner 23:08
kidding. May you May or so. Okay, so you get moving in that right direction. And really the big, the big thing here for you is, you need to understand, I don't know what I'm doing. Like, so did you think you knew what you were doing up until that heart attack?

Mitchell 23:24
Kind of the kind of, I don't know if hard to explain. Like, I was just doing what was instructed to me. But I knew my numbers weren't good. Just and then I got set up and kind of stopped checking my blood sugar up before before the heart attack. Yeah. And yeah, cuz I was just frustrated. And I mean, kind of get to a point where you're like, Well, I don't know what to do. Because like, you feel crappy, because your blood sugars are high, but you're just following the direction that you were given. And then I mean, I also think a lot of people don't understand how insulin works. And there they are afraid of it. I can be afraid of it. But I've learned not to me. And I'll be honest, some of it was to do with your your podcast episodes about you know, not being afraid of insulin but understand the seriousness of it. Okay,

Scott Benner 24:22
well, I wasn't trying to get to a to a plug for the podcast, but I appreciate

Mitchell 24:26
you. No, no. Yeah, that's honest truth. I I used to be always like mealtime insulin. I was like, Well, if I give myself too much, but But seriously, it didn't help. No, I'm

Scott Benner 24:41
glad. Thank you for telling me. Also, I would imagine if you're afraid to give yourself too much. The specter of what happens if you don't, never feels real, but the heart attack makes makes you go oh, this is what happens. And now I'm afraid of having a heart attack. Yeah, yeah. So you found something you were more afraid of? That makes sense. But it wasn't having your leg dismembered. Isn't it interesting? Like you had to have a real life. My point is you had to have a real life experience to feel the impact, like just someone saying it to you even trying to be scary. Like, yeah, that didn't scare you that just said, I'm gonna stop listening to this person. Yeah, yeah. Okay, well, that makes sense. Your Dexcom G six now? Correct? And how, like, tell me now about looping? Do you understand it? Or does you just have it set up? And it's working for you? Like, I'm trying to figure out like, how far did you go into this whole? Like, I need to understand this thing. So you get somebody to set it up for you, and it works and you're happy? Or do you did you dig way in.

Mitchell 25:55
So I did, I did build loop myself just on a free subscription. I was about to spend $100 on it if I couldn't do it, and I was able to successfully build loop. And then for a couple weeks I was building every week because you only have the seven days whatever with a free membership for the Apple developer accounts. And then I got in with PC diabetes actually set me up on loop. They built it for me and all that and gave me my settings, whatever. And then they were like, came out with supporting iepf I guess was free APS free. PSS next generation was what they called it at the beginning. And then now it's called I IPs. And they kind of give you the your base settings, but I definitely have tweaked it to my advantage. Because I mean, everyone Yeah, everyone has a base. But that doesn't mean it's going to work for you. Of course, hey,

Scott Benner 26:55
you keep saying BC diabetes. Is that like a? Is that like a cash pay doctor that you go to?

Mitchell 27:01
No, it's publicly funded, but it's just like, it's a specialist, three endocrinologist in there. And they use, they have like, we call them. I can't think of the name. There's a bunch of case managers. So that's, it's just, you get in faster, and you actually get way better care. I've never had that kind of care from an endocrinologist ever so?

Scott Benner 27:28
Well, I mean, the model seems like it's working really well for you. They're obviously up to date on the information they have. And you're up. You're doing so much better. I wonder why this isn't more widely adopted across the country?

Mitchell 27:40
Yeah, I don't know. I only know that of this place in BC, though, I don't hope other provinces in our country have something like that.

Scott Benner 27:55
Well, that would be great. I mean, you've heard the podcast, right? Like, the more north you go in Canada, that seems to be the less maybe help you get. I mean, that's anecdotal at best for me talking to people. But that's sort of seems how it feels, then there's some provinces that I'm, I'm sorry provinces. And there's some of them that. And there's some of them that are still giving out? Like old timey insulin to people?

Mitchell 28:21
Yeah, I don't understand it. There's so much so many other influences that are way more advanced, I guess you would say, yeah, for

Scott Benner 28:30
sure. Now, they listen, they work faster. They're getting closer to actually being faster acting insulin and yeah, yeah. I mean, it's a modern way of, it's a modern way of managing. Like, I just, I don't understand why somebody would be handing out what you got. I mean, listen to what happened to you. Yeah, you know, so and, and you found somebody who knows how to explain it to you. And now look what happened. You say? 668126 months? Oh, wow. It's so good. Great, man. That's really great for you. Make sure you married your date. Do you have a person in your life?

Mitchell 29:03
I just got married a month. Later a couple of weeks ago. Oh, congratulations. Thank you. No kids. No pets.

Scott Benner 29:16
How do the weddings work there? Did she write in a polar bear? Or how do you do it?

Mitchell 29:23
No, no, she she walked down the aisle like normal. Yeah.

Scott Benner 29:26
It's boring. But okay. snowmobiles with tin cans tied to the back when you left anything at all Canadian. Nothing.

Mitchell 29:35
Very Canadian. Anyway,

Scott Benner 29:36
did anyone get stabbed at the at the party afterwards?

Mitchell 29:40
No,

Scott Benner 29:41
no. No way to left down the country?

Mitchell 29:46
Yeah, someone's gotta right. Yeah,

Scott Benner 29:48
right. Gotta break away go your own way. Still a stabbing would have been nice just to keep a Canadian. I think it would have been like, you know, just an upset fight in the corner between two people. Even a butter knife would have been alright for me. Anyway. I haven't mentioned that in a while but people in Canada stab each other. It's it's the preferred way of fighting

Mitchell 30:14
Yeah, I don't know. Not not there. I live. It's usually guns to be honest.

Scott Benner 30:20
Oh, you're out west, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Mitchell 30:24
I'm very far with your like, we're

Scott Benner 30:26
very Americanized. We shoot people here. Yeah. Well, anyway, most of the there's this great. I haven't said this in a while there's this fits a Twitter account called scan, scan BC or scan something is that it can be seen. Yeah. And it just like, it does like these things that happened with the police. I don't know if you guys call them police. Or if they're Mounties, or I don't really care. And but they overwhelmingly filled with stabbings is just That's how I feel about it. When I say it. Just always people are just like, there's like, and then I imagined, like the voice on the radio. You know what I mean? And they're saying things like Provence. And, you know, it's happening behind the Tim Hortons a and he stabbed him. And like, that's,

Mitchell 31:11
that's it. I'm just impressed. You know what Tim Hortons is?

Scott Benner 31:15
I know everything. Don't worry. I love Canada. I've never been there. And I'll never go, but I'm enamored. Why? I don't know. How am I gonna get there? You guys don't let people out when they come in.

Mitchell 31:23
Or you don't want to leave when you come in? Okay.

Scott Benner 31:27
I trust me, someone's gonna drag me to Canada at some point. So I'll be there. And then I won't make any of these stupid jokes or do any of those bad impressions because somebody will stab me probably.

Mitchell 31:40
No, no.

Scott Benner 31:42
Your, your your new wife? How long have you did you date her before you got married? Four and a half years? Okay, and how much does she understand about your diabetes? And how much of your transformation has to do with you dating her?

Mitchell 31:58
She doesn't really? I don't know. She doesn't really under Dan, like when a pump doesn't want to Dexcom does. Okay, because she gets mixed up all the time. I tried to explain the turn and educate her. But yeah, it's it's slow, slow progress.

Scott Benner 32:20
Do you want her to do you want her to understand? And does she want to understand?

Mitchell 32:25
Oh, I most definitely want her to understand because I mean, if if something was to to happen, she should know what to do. She understands, you know, low blood sugar, that alarm from Dexcom. And she's got, you know, juice boxes scattered all through the house. But yeah, it would be. She's if she had a little bit more education about diabetes.

Scott Benner 32:51
Be probably good. Yeah. And is that something you guys talk about? Or is it just something you kind of slip in when you get a chance? I'll be talking about it. Okay, and she's open to it. She's just having a little trouble picking it up.

Mitchell 33:03
It's like I honestly, I did tell her to listen to your podcasts because she would it would help her understand this. But she just hasn't got there yet. Which is fine. I'm okay. Right now.

Scott Benner 33:14
No, that's I was just interested. I'm always interested in how people share it with significant others actually. Oh, yeah. What kind of work do you do? I'm not asking you where you work. But like, vaguely,

Mitchell 33:26
I am a supervisor at a grocery store.

Scott Benner 33:30
Okay. And does that impact your day to day work?

Mitchell 33:35
Um, no, I wouldn't say it does. I kind of don't let it you know, sometimes, you know, low blood sugar. I had to go eat some food, but that's probably be the extent of it. Okay.

Scott Benner 33:48
Yeah. So it doesn't get in the way too much is your job not particularly physically demanding.

Mitchell 33:56
And be? It's just it's, it can be a lot of physical but it can be a lot of mental as well. I'm just being on your feet for eight hours straight.

Scott Benner 34:07
And the loop keeps up running around. Luke keeps up with it pretty well for your I'm sorry, you're using I know they just changed the name of it. Tell me again. I'm gonna write it down in front of myself. Iaps

Mitchell 34:15
Iaps. Yeah. It it does pretty good. Sometimes it'll bring me a little bit low and then I just cut my days 50% And for you know, half an hour and then it's fine. Watch

Scott Benner 34:31
the art. I watched art. And last night we had like a it was the fourth of July. That's a holiday in America. You probably don't know. Yes. Yeah. And and we were at a thing like a picnic thing. So as we got home 930 10 o'clock. She was drift just starting to drift lower. And she wanted to get like a shower. And then she wanted to eat. She's like, I'm really hungry. And I'm like, okay, she goes, but I want to get shower first. Okay, she goes but I'm not going to Make her through the shower. Like without eating something she does so many eat this cookie, so I don't die, then I'm gonna get shower, then I'm gonna come back down and eat something. And I went. Now again, it was just very interesting to see how it's sort of, it's just part of her life. Like, she didn't say like, oh, this is ruining my evening or I really want to get in the shower first or, you know, I'm going to eat it. She just she's like, this is how this goes, sometimes. I'm not going to let it stop me from doing the things I need to do. But I'm going to do I'm going to do this thing first I need to do and she didn't want the cookie. Like she, you know, she wasn't looking for a cookie. And she's like, but I'm just gonna eat this. Not gonna die. I'm gonna take a shower and come back and I'm gonna eat like, okay, right on. And did she just did it? Like she's home from college for a couple of months, like, during a route? And I was like, wow, I don't know, I thought it was very cool. How? Like, you just imagined you at your job. Just, you know, get a little down like blood sugar a little low and doing something just keep going. I'm like, kind of warms your heart a little bit to think of it happening so seamlessly. Well,

Mitchell 36:06
he kind of back to you, right? Yeah. Can't let it consume your whole day.

Scott Benner 36:11
Well, I don't know if you have to, because Mitchell, you weren't doing it before. And you know, you just were didn't know what you were doing and riding that train to like a health problem. And, and I wonder how many people are doing that right now? Who are saying, well, I don't want to have to eat a cookie before I take a shower so I can eat. So I'll just leave my blood sugar 200 And that'll be fine. Except, you mean? Yeah, it damn right. It's not you know, better than anybody. How do you bring that up while you're dating? Hey, I had a heart attack when I was 26.

Mitchell 36:44
I don't really remember how I Oh, remember, I told her.

Scott Benner 36:49
Like, while you were watching the trailers before a movie or something like that? Yeah, no. She was like, you're like, hey, tell me something about yourself. And she's like, I'm not good at remembering the difference between mechanical devices and you're like, Oh, okay. I had a heart attack when I was 26. And they like, Can I have some popcorn?

Mitchell 37:07
Gotta go like that. I don't remember. Yeah.

Scott Benner 37:09
Weird thing to have to say to somebody, I guess is what I'm thinking. But you don't remember it? So maybe not. Oh, you're very easy to get along with. You know that about yourself?

Mitchell 37:22
Yeah, I guess now I feel like I

Scott Benner 37:25
owe over where you're not in the past.

Mitchell 37:29
I can be a bit of a hassle sometimes.

Scott Benner 37:34
I was I wanted you to say saxophone snob to do a call back but it's always fun to do Do you notice a difference in your personality now that your blood sugar's anyone sees are lower and more stable?

Mitchell 37:51
Oh, 100% Yeah, I'm not as irritable. I feel like I don't want to kill people as much as I used to want to.

Scott Benner 38:02
Would you have stabbed them or shot them?

Mitchell 38:05
I don't know. Either one could be

Scott Benner 38:08
poisoned their groceries. I mean, a lot of effort, though. Yeah, yeah. Do you guys have like regular food in Canada? Right. Like stuff like I know about? Yes, God. Yes. We do. Grapes.

Mitchell 38:24
You have grapes? Yes. Yeah, that red and green. Wow.

Scott Benner 38:28
Do you have the ones about the seeds? We do. Yeah, that's insane. That's crazy. It's amazing. Do you feed into penguins? No, right? No. Penguin Penguins of the Arctic Circle. They're not Canada.

Mitchell 38:42
Yeah, penguins are like, up north, like, like north north. Okay.

Scott Benner 38:48
You are making me think of something right now. I interviewed this like young girl. Like, I swear, I don't remember how old she was. She's like nine or 10. She had diabetes. And she was from Canada. And she was just on the cusp of not quite understanding my sarcasm, but getting some of it. And in fairness to me, I did not know I was recording with a child that day. Like, I think the mom pulled like a bait and switch on me. But it was fine. Like I was okay. And she, like it got a little slow at some point where I was like, she didn't have a ton to say. And so I started to ask, I started realizing she was younger. And I was like, Hey, real quick question. Like you live at the place where Santa lives, right? And she's like now, and I was like, oh, Santa doesn't live in Canada. And she goes, No one is like, Where does Santa live? And she's like, the North Pole. And I'm like, You're not at the North Pole. And she goes now and like she's just very like earnest about it, you know? Like, just like, how could you not know these things? And at some point, she says that there are cars in America and I say, Well, have you ever been to America? And she goes, No. And I'm like, Well, how do you know there are cars here for sure. And she goes there are I'm like, Are you sure? She says yes. And I'm like, but you've never been here you don't really know. And as we were having that little conversation, which I said to her, are you in a room with a closed door? And she said, Yes. I said, Is there a clown on the other side of the door? And she goes, No. And I go, Are you sure? I don't know why. She goes, I guess not as like, Alright, there's your thought. There's your lesson and critical thinking for today. And later, my wife is like, do you think she sat there? Like scared there was a clown on the other side of the door? I'm like, I don't think so.

Mitchell 40:39
Maybe, yeah, maybe

Scott Benner 40:39
she seemed fine. At the end. She was happy. It's all it mattered. Anyway. I don't know why I told you that other than I'm starting to think I have to dig that episode out and put it up sooner than it's supposed to come up, because I want to hear it back. Now. I'd like to, I want to hear the moment where she, by the way really resigned herself and said I like I guess it's I'm not sure if their cars in America and I've never seen them. I was like good for you. And I said there are.

Mitchell 41:08
But you know.

Scott Benner 41:11
Oh, my gosh. Your parents talked about your dad earlier. Is he still around? Yes, he is. How much of this transformation and this journey is he aware of? Well,

Mitchell 41:24
my dad is actually going to take you diabetic that takes insulin as well. So I tried to bring it up into that.

Scott Benner 41:34
Mitchell, did you just walk into a tin can?

Mitchell 41:38
No one just walked around my house. Oh,

Scott Benner 41:40
stop doing that Mitchell. Run back to the place that works. You have to do something. Am I stopping you from like getting a juice or something like that?

Mitchell 41:50
Well, I was walking towards my kitchen. And my kitchen is like a room? Not like a yeah, my kitchen has a door. So it's very tiny. But

Scott Benner 42:02
that's okay. Is there a cloud in the kitchen? No,

Mitchell 42:06
no clown.

Scott Benner 42:08
You I can't begin to tell you how like poor your auto audio quality got just now. I'm sorry. I couldn't hear you. You're completely gone away.

Mitchell 42:15
Are you okay? Okay.

Scott Benner 42:17
Okay. All right. So your dad, your dad has type two diabetes. He manages it with insulin? What does he know about the this whole journey you've been through? Is he still involved at all?

Mitchell 42:27
No, when I wouldn't say he's involved. He asked me the questions like, oh, what's your agency and that kind of thing? Not not involved in in the management part at all. So

Scott Benner 42:39
if I said to you, if I grabbed your father and I said, Hey, your son uses Iaps. He would not know what that meant.

Mitchell 42:45
He he would? Because I kind of trialed him on it for a couple of days. To see if it would work for him. Which it would you did. And then I got I recently just emailed PC diabetes. And they set up an appointment to kind of get on the same path, because it's even C is 6.8. But it could be better, I guess. And he he likes the fact that he wouldn't have to, you know, inject multiple times a day, he can just put an Omnipod on and move on with his day. Right? Do you like that? He asks you how you're doing? Oh, yeah, I do. Okay.

Scott Benner 43:33
If he needed help with his diabetes, would you be able to help him? Like when PC sets him up? And everything Do you think you guys would talk about or do you think it's not a thing you would like talk about on that level?

Mitchell 43:45
No, we would talk about it. For sure. Do you have a mom? I'm sorry? I do. Yeah.

Scott Benner 43:51
Was she involved with diabetes growing up? Not

Mitchell 43:55
too much. Because my parents were divorced. Okay. And I lived with my dad. When I was diagnosed, so not too too much. It was me my my dad who had the involvement in it. I see. Does she ask you about it? Oh, yeah, she absolutely. Let me see here. And you know, what? Your blood sugar at that kind of thing. But not too in depth about it.

Scott Benner 44:20
Your dad understands it much better. Yes, right. Okay. Did they have since they got divorced? Did they have other children after they were divorced? No.

Mitchell 44:31
Okay. What is?

Scott Benner 44:35
I mean, if you had to really think about it, and talk to people who are living in a different time with their management, like, what would you tell them about learning modern ways and moving forward?

Mitchell 44:47
I guess. Don't settle for what a doctor tells you to do. Find out what works for yourself. It's probably the best advice I could probably give. Yeah,

Scott Benner 44:58
yeah. I mean, it really He is simple, right? Like, if but how do you know though Mitchell like how boob if, like we all he all don't get as lucky as to have a heart attack and change our lives and we're 26 months old. So if you don't have that heart attack, do you think your management is better now?

Mitchell 45:14
I don't know. I would like to say yes, but I really don't know.

Scott Benner 45:19
There's no way to know. Yeah, I'm trying to figure out like, I'm asking you an unfair question that you don't have the answer to. But I'm trying to figure out how do you take someone who is stuck in a subpar situation? Doesn't know it's a subpar situation, but is only going to find out when they have a health emergency. That may be, you know, it may be too late by the time they get to it, like how do you reach that person and tell them? Hey, I know you think this is okay. But it probably isn't. And that's, that's, you know, tough.

Mitchell 45:55
I feel like you reach that person by explaining things more in depth, not just the, you know, the standard, whatever the standard may be, right, like, I didn't know what it is. That was I didn't know what a corporation was. And truthfully, if I had those, if I had an understanding of those, those things, I'm pretty sure my management would have been a lot better building because I didn't even understand, you know, how much one unit takes care of in my blood sugar? I had no idea. I was like, well, so I'm pretty sure that would have would have helped me and I probably wouldn't have gotten to, you know, having a heart attack? Yeah, I don't know. But I would assume, hopefully, that I wouldn't have had that. If I had the proper

Scott Benner 46:43
tools, built building blocks, tools, even a basic understanding that allows you then, to see the world around you. And then apply the bit that you know, and say, Oh, wow, like, I see how this would help that. And you know, I have a hammer, but I don't have a screwdriver, I'll go find one. Because I'm seeing that I shouldn't I shouldn't nail in this screw, I should turn it in, like I'll go find more tools. So that self exploration that you would get to take if you just had enough information to get into the game. Wow. You mean sure you don't know how weird it is that you like to hear from another perspective, because your perspective is, of course your own. But how strange it is for me to hear that you had this thing given to you this type one diabetes, and all that we all know goes into needing to needing to do to take care of it even on a basic level, and that you were just existing in it without any of that knowledge is fascinating.

Mitchell 47:45
You don't I mean? Yeah. It sucks that I wasn't given the full opportunity to be in control.

Scott Benner 47:57
Yeah, it feels it feels like they it feels like, I don't know, it feels like we went out into the future into Star Trek times when there was just peace and prosperity. And we picked somebody up and brought them back to Europe in World War Two, and started just drop them in the middle of a battlefield, and just let them walk around in a completely alien place where everything's trying to kill you. And they don't know that's what's happening. And you somehow, like wandered through it for a long time before a mortar caught you. Oh, that's crazy. It really is not like I don't know, another way to like to communicate how insane that feels to me. And, and I feel bad saying that to you. Because I'm assuming that it can make you feel badly. But I don't mean for that to happen. But it's just it's just, you know, they're still doctors doing this today. Is my point now. Yeah.

Mitchell 48:54
Yeah. boggles my mind. And it's like, Oh, yeah. It's 2023. Like, tell people what they need to know, in order to manage themselves properly.

Scott Benner 49:04
Which I will say, I'm not sure I'm not it's not a brag, but this podcast is reaching more people with diabetes, probably than any other thing that exists, right? And I still only reach a small fraction of the people who use insulin in the world, in the country, even in the country, like take, take your like pretend country out of it. Just think of America for a second, right? Like, if, like, I'm only reaching a small percentage of the 1.9 million people, I think the number is that have type one diabetes. And this podcast is reaching more people than anybody else. Like so the point is, like, all those other people who are in some version of wandering around in Normandy, and thinking they're in 20 23,050, or something like that. It's just it's terrible, and it's so fixable. I mean, we know who everyone is they all go to doctors, like doctors know who everyone is, was type one diabetes for the most part, right? I know, it's probably not many type ones that don't see a doctor. And so how can they just let them walk around like that? Yeah, I?

Mitchell 50:20
I don't know. I don't, I don't understand it.

Scott Benner 50:27
It's upsetting. And because of what I told you earlier, this thing that we're talking about behind the scenes is like, it's right in my mind today. You know, and then you come on and tell that exact story. And I'm like, see, this is how prevalent it is right here. I mean, sure. You're from Canada. And you know, I mean, your doctors wearing a hat made out of a beaver pelt, but doesn't mean they didn't go to medical school.

Mitchell 50:49
Well, no, no, no.

Scott Benner 50:50
I have a tendency

Mitchell 50:51
to think they wouldn't go they didn't go to medical school. Just

Scott Benner 50:56
let's forget talking about this diabetes. Mitchell. I'm gonna help you set up this trap. We're trapped. We're trapping sir. Yes, yes. We're gonna get a bunch of pellets. And then we're gonna sell them in town and buy whiskey. Okay, perfect. Perfect. Human imagined I hear there are cities in Canada, but that's how I imagined it when you think of

Mitchell 51:19
the doctors were kinda like a like Vancouver is like, similar to like Seattle. Yeah, it seems like a lie. Yeah, come to Canada and find out.

Scott Benner 51:33
I can Google it and everything. But again, they're just pictures. They can doctor the pictures. I don't know if you've heard of AI or not. But I have Yes. Yeah. Hold on. I'm gonna Google Vancouver city right now. Just gonna say Vancouver city. Oh, well, yeah, but there's a mountain in the background. Yeah, it's probably

Mitchell 51:50
like Mount Seymour or Cypress mountain.

Scott Benner 51:56
Yeah, it looks like SimCity like somebody built a city next to a mountain because they thought it was pretty. It is pretty by the way. Yeah, it is. It's a whole article here about what it would be like to move to Vancouver. I'm not gonna read it. Anything longer than a 10 minute drive is considered far. Is that a fair thing?

Mitchell 52:19
Oh, yeah, I would agree. I don't want to drive that long. There

Scott Benner 52:23
is traffic but it's always moving. There's no standstill traffic.

Mitchell 52:28
Oh, no. Last year. So it's like, bumper to bumper.

Scott Benner 52:31
weed is everywhere. Yeah. You smell it walking around. Sometimes, yeah. Smoke weed. It's all you want to say on the podcast? No,

Mitchell 52:45
I'm not really into smoking weed. I like eat gummy. It's like CBD. gummies. For relaxation or to get high. Just relaxation. I feel like I'm past the point of getting high. I just need to

Scott Benner 52:59
sleep. It's just like I did my 30 Scott. I don't have any time for fun. Just I just need eight hours of sleep. Well, that's what I'm getting old. Feels like Mitchell right there. Yeah, well, more percent. Like I'm not looking for fun. I just need to rest. But the new wife she's loaded, right. She can't remember the difference between a Dexcom and an omni pod.

Mitchell 53:23
She gets so confused.

Scott Benner 53:26
She gets so confused. Less than eyes of people I'm Arden's life for decades. Almost. And they still are like this. You know? She's low. Do you need insulin? Like you know, like now? Yeah, sorry.

Mitchell 53:40
It's quite the opposite, actually.

Scott Benner 53:42
Do you think she wouldn't like me? Is that why she won't listen to the podcast?

Mitchell 53:46
I mean, she we have listened to it like both of us together when we're driving somewhere. But she hasn't like started from the beginning like, actually listened. Fully. Tell her I have

Scott Benner 53:59
bills. And if she would have downloaded on a new phone, it would be another listener for me. And then everything she listened to I'd get another download for and then I could continue to sell ads. And it was just like, issue like a common sense person. Like,

Mitchell 54:13
go Yeah, yeah, she's she's common senses get Yes.

Scott Benner 54:18
Hit her with that, then make her feel bad for me. Maybe that'll get her to say, look, this guy's starving. Just turn your phone on. What do you do? And I'll pitch it to her. Get her on the phone right now. I'll talk. I will say something pejorative about Canada, and then I will just be like, God now. Well, is there anything we haven't talked about that we should have?

Mitchell 54:39
Oh, I don't think so. I think 10 is good.

Scott Benner 54:44
Yeah. Are you happy with how our conversation went?

Mitchell 54:47
Yeah, I didn't. I don't know. I've never been on a podcast so I wasn't sure what

Scott Benner 54:52
to expect. Was this about what you imagined?

Mitchell 54:56
It's what I imagined the guests for being on your cast, just because I've listened to a lot of probably like 80% of your, your full hit library, I

Scott Benner 55:06
guess, Mitchell. Thank you. Thank you very much. I appreciate that. So yeah, sincerely. Yeah, that's not NPR. I'm not here today we're speaking with Mitchell. He's had type one diabetes and she was 14 years old. It's going to tell us a story today of his heart attack his new marriage. And Vancouver. Yeah, I don't I don't. If I heard something like that. I'd shut it right off. I'd be like, Oh, I can't I can't hear Yeah, yeah. I want to pass

Mitchell 55:33
that has some some substance to it, I guess. Yeah. Little

Scott Benner 55:36
chit chat. Right. Talks about beaver pelts. I wore a rabbit lined hat once. Set my body on fire was so warm.

Mitchell 55:46
Up rabbit lined hat. Yeah,

Scott Benner 55:48
like so the hat like it was an outdoor hat for, like the cold. And it came from like, I don't know where, I mean, I think my wife got it for me for Christmas, because it looks stupid. And she wanted me to look stupid. That's basically where I think this purchase came from. Sounds about right. Like, you know, you're outside like shoveling snow and stuff like that. And you're always cold and I never wear a hat. So I get this hat. It's like, I don't know what the outsides made of. It's kind of waterproof, but the inside is lined in rabbit fur. And if you put it on your head, and don't immediately go outside in the cold, you'll like overheat and pass out. I don't rabbits must be so warm as what I'm saying. I would hate that. Yeah, it's not fun. Like even outside. You almost have to take it off. Like it's freezing cold snows blowing around all over the place. Like I'm too warm from this hat. Cool. No, thanks. No, it's amazing. And you look really good. I don't know what you would look like it actually might be a handsome man. But I look good. I I look ridiculous at it. So although I have lost weight, Michel, maybe I should try it again next winter.

Mitchell 56:53
It's not too far away. Right. So don't say that.

Scott Benner 56:56
I hate winter. And you'll but you live in Canada. It's

Mitchell 57:01
It's not cool. It's not snowing and minus temperatures for more than, you know, half a year. All right. Where we do get sun and 30 degree weather.

Scott Benner 57:15
I don't know. I don't know Celsius.

Mitchell 57:18
I just I just thought about that. I'm like, Oh, he probably is like, what is that?

Scott Benner 57:22
I got its hold on. 30 degrees Celsius to Fahrenheit and 86. Okay, six. Yeah. So like summer weather. I gotcha. If you move anywhere, would you move within Canada or outside of Canada?

Mitchell 57:33
I would stay in Canada. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. You're Canadian. Through and Through. Yeah. God bless. I love coming. I love going to America, but it's like, you know, short trips.

Scott Benner 57:43
When you come to America. Where do you go? So

Mitchell 57:46
we go to port Roberts a lot. We go to Seattle, or I go to Vegas a lot. So, Mitchell.

Scott Benner 57:53
Any luck in Vegas? No. So what stays in Vegas is your money?

Mitchell 57:59
Pretty much. Yeah. Oh, I've never been there. You've never been to

Scott Benner 58:06
Vegas? No, no, I just make this podcast mental. This is what I do. I make this podcast once a while I complain to my wife about stuff. That's pretty much it.

Mitchell 58:16
You know, you could find a way to do like, you know, Juicebox Podcast on the road?

Scott Benner 58:20
Yeah. Do you think anybody would give a crap if I was recording it somewhere different than I'm recording it?

Mitchell 58:26
Well, I don't know. You could do it live live in the real person. All right, Michelle,

Scott Benner 58:30
I'll tell you what, if this thing hits a million downloads a month, this is off the top of my head so nobody can hold me to this. If this thing hits, except you if this thing hits a million downloads a month, the whole show. I mean, not just one episode. If one episode hits a million dollars, you're gonna see you're gonna see me in Vegas, like throwing money around like, it's a rap video from the 80s. But if, if, if I get to a consistent million a month and I met a half a million now. I think it's possible that I could get sponsorship for a mobile recording thing. And maybe I could drive around and record with people in the van. What do you think?

Mitchell 59:22
Yeah, I'm sure I'm sure you'll hit a million downloads. While not if you don't get your life and I'll get I'll get around it. Yeah,

Scott Benner 59:29
I mean, geez, I didn't want to say in line because it's not 1965 You get that lady that you married in line. It's not what I was going for. I just got caught in between the word and then I was like, Oh, it sounds like I was gonna say get your wife in line with my Mitchell when I met, I'm afraid my wife heard that just now. I'm not even sure if she's in the in the house to be perfectly honest with you. I'm like viscerally scared. I was I did this talk somewhere, I'm gonna let you go in a second Mitchell, I did this talk somewhere. I don't think they want a lot of their details out but big group of people, and they basically hired a Shusher. So someone that if the group got loud, would stand up in the front and just be like shish shish everybody so that I could keep going, because we have a really big group. And I turned to the girl at one point when she did that, and I was like, I'm going to try that at home on my wife. And she looked at me super seriously. And she went, Oh, I don't think I would do that if I was you.

Mitchell 1:00:36
Yeah, those are probably very good words that she spoke to you. Can you

Scott Benner 1:00:39
just imagine that? So like, if you're if you're in a middle of a conversation with your brand new bride, and she was upset, and you trying to be funny, just when she thinks she like throw a pan at you or something like

Mitchell 1:00:55
I've eaten dead?

Scott Benner 1:00:56
Oh my God, my wife would definitely stab me. Like, we're not even in Canada. And she would definitely, you know, they mean, my God. beaver pelt, I'd be upheld, but it was over. For Scott. We turned him into a hat that I wear now when I'm shoveling snow. doesn't keep you warm, but it makes me laugh. All right, Michelle, you're terrific. Give me a second. Okay. No problem.

In 2015, I needed support to start making this podcast and Omni pod was there. They bought my first ad in a year when the entire podcast got as many downloads as it probably got today. Um, the pod was there to support the show. And they have been every year for nine seasons. I want to thank them very much. And I want to ask you to check them out at Omni pod.com/juicebox. If you're not already subscribed or following in your favorite audio app, please take the time now to do that. It really helps the show and get those automatic downloads set up so you never miss an episode. The episode you just heard was professionally edited by wrong way recording. Wrong way. recording.com Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.