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Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 907 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Welcome back everyone. This is the fourth installment of my type two Story series. We've already heard from John, LeAnn and Michael, and today Karen, a person living with type two diabetes. While you're listening, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan, or becoming bold with insulin. If you have type one diabetes, or are the caregiver of someone with type one, and you're a US resident, please consider going to T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox and completing the survey. Every completed survey helps someone with type one diabetes, it may help you and it definitely will help the Juicebox Podcast T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox. juice box podcast listeners save 35% off their entire order at cozy earth.com when they use the offer code juice box at checkout and you'll save 10% off your first month of therapy@betterhelp.com forward slash juice box just by going to that link. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the Dexcom G seven dexcom.com forward slash juice box get yourself the continuous glucose monitor that my daughter has been wearing for years. dexcom.com forward slash Juicebox Podcast is also sponsored today by the contour next gen blood glucose meter contour next.com forward slash juicebox you need and deserve a blood glucose meter that is accurate and easy to use. I had an extra contour next gen at the house that I just gave to a family friend who was concerned that they had pre diabetes on the very first day woke up fasting blood sugar 119. Now they know what they're looking for. They're going to be testing all week and writing down their numbers. You could too contour next one.com forward slash juicebox.

Karen 2:26
My name is Karen and I am 69 years old. I used to be a teacher and retired as of 2006. I'm a type two diabetic. And I guess that's a good start. Because Scott last meal I think

Scott Benner 2:46
it's a perfect start. Thank you. Okay, while you're 69 And how long have you had type two?

Karen 2:55
Well, do you want to count? prediabetes, but um, basically my diagnosis with insulin was 2009.

Scott Benner 3:05
So you've been using insulin since 2009? When right? When did you start having to doctor for this? When was it? When did it begin?

Karen 3:14
Um, about five years before that? Okay. 2004.

Scott Benner 3:22
Wow. 18 years ago. All right. What is the first? Well, were you working then? You teaching? Yes, you were Yes. What did you teach?

Karen 3:38
Mostly elementary physical education.

Scott Benner 3:41
Nice. Well, that sounds like fun, actually. Or is it not?

Karen 3:44
Well, people say, oh, there must be a lot of fun. But really, if I'm playing with the kids, I'm not doing my job.

Scott Benner 3:53
So the fun parts not there, do they? But that was a long time ago back then you let them throw balls at each other and everything right, like dodgeball?

Karen 4:03
Well, occasionally, but we usually use firewalls, so they didn't hurt.

Scott Benner 4:08
I don't think they let you throw balls at each other anymore.

Karen 4:10
No,

Scott Benner 4:12
I don't think so. I don't think you're even like that.

Karen 4:15
I don't know if you can even get hugs anymore. I used to get like 40 or 50 hugs a day. Really, but yeah, but the thing that Well, I had mostly kindergarteners, but the thing that I missed the most was if I dropped something like 24 kids would die to pick it up. Or if I lost something, I can't find my needle race to get it for me. Karen I

Scott Benner 4:49
don't want to be creepy but I could have used a couple of those kids to put my socks on this morning. That would have been a go.

Karen 4:54
There you go and they would have been happy to do that If he would have fought me would have fought to do.

Scott Benner 5:02
Mr. Scott's back hurts. I've got the left one. Okay, so what's the first? Well, since it's funny, type two is different than type one my questions. Alright, so prior to 2004 You live in a life had you had children? No, no. Okay. Would you consider yourself in shape out of shape? A good eater, a bad eater? Like, how did you think of yourself as an adult?

Karen 5:32
I was a pretty good eater, sometimes not. But you know, we all do that. And I've always fought with weight. But at the same time, being told that I created my type two really irritates me a little because the incidence of type two is anywhere from 11 to 17%. From what I've seen, and that's a small amount of fat people who have diabetes, and there's a lot of others who are fat who don't have it. So to say that they're still the cause, because I'm not sure is really fair.

Scott Benner 6:16
Karen, I like your math on that. You're like, listen, there's 10 of us here. Two of us have diabetes. We're all fat. Yeah. So is there. Type Two in your family line? No, no? Okay. Well, okay, you start You shocked me there. Okay, that's fine.

Karen 6:39
And some great grandmother had type two. Well, that's a great grandmother. Well, that's. Well, yeah, but she had 10 children, too. So gak in the 30s. You know,

Scott Benner 6:51
Karen, what are you saying? She used herself up and everything came for? Kind of 30 she had? How many of her? Do you know much about her? Did any of the children not survive?

Karen 7:04
No, all of the children survived except one who was killed at age 19. In the war? No, he was killed on a train track in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. Oh, my gosh, I can't believe you know, in a snowstorm

Scott Benner 7:21
in the snow. Well, you

Karen 7:23
know, you know how families tell story. They share a lot of things.

Scott Benner 7:28
It's interesting. I I always wonder how accurate any of those old stories are that have been passed down? You don't I mean, like, I'm talking to my mom, and she can't. She's not getting right. What we did last week, and I think, yeah. Tell Tell me the story about your uncle again. You're sure about live.

Karen 7:48
I've had more than one, you know, story about that. And he was he is probably drunk at the time. And snowstorm on the train tracks. And, um, you know, I looked it up online. One time when ancestry he had a free thing, and I saw his death certificate, so I'm pretty sure that was accurate. Because he had, he had been asked to go to play with John Philip Sousa is banned, but he was only 15 years old at that time. Oh, yeah. Like when can that? Really? Yeah.

Scott Benner 8:31
Okay. All right. Well, that's great. Oh, sorry. Sorry. We're getting too far away. No, that's your great grandmother had type two diabetes that we

Karen 8:39
and 10 kids

Scott Benner 8:41
and a really tired vagina imagine so.

Karen 8:46
And she she and her husband were immigrants. So

Scott Benner 8:53
wow, from where? Finland and are so you are? Are you finished or part finish? Half finish. Very nice. I appreciate you saying that. So we can title the episode.

Karen 9:11
Well, I'll have a friendly Anders in the up we'll be happy about that.

Scott Benner 9:16
I'm just wondering right now how many people know who John Philip Sousa was?

Karen 9:21
Yeah, that's true. I was impressed when I was in in orchestra. So

Scott Benner 9:27
Oh, I love it makes sense. Okay, so you in 2004 start experiencing symptoms. What are those symptoms?

Karen 9:37
Well, it was mostly my blood tests showed that my glucose levels are a little high.

Scott Benner 9:43
So you're just in your, in your yearly physical or whatever. And the doctor starts talking about like, Oh, you're pre diabetic, that kind of thing.

Karen 9:53
Exactly. Okay. And he put me on Metformin.

Scott Benner 9:56
And did that do well first of all, do you remember what Pre diabetic meant back then what were they telling you a one C was?

Karen 10:03
I really don't know. Okay. I don't know, back then if they really set a one, see

Scott Benner 10:10
if that was the measurement or if they were doing were they do fasting? Were they doing like a fasting blood glucose maybe

Karen 10:17
more or less to to be diagnosed? I think I did that. But that was right away. I should I would do my fingers check and have blood glucose of 115.

Scott Benner 10:34
And that pretty regularly regularly. So they put you on they put you on Metformin. Wow. Did you experience any weight loss from the Metformin? No, no. Did you experience a lessening of your blood sugar? Did it help with that?

Karen 10:51
I don't think so.

Scott Benner 10:52
No. And how long did they leave you just on Metformin? Five years? And you don't feel like it did anything for you? Not really

Karen 11:00
well, it gave me diarrhea.

Scott Benner 11:05
Karen, you and I are gonna have fun I can tell.

Karen 11:10
I mean, yeah, it was, you know, I found that found more bathrooms people must have sensed like in stores or whatever, where they said no public bathrooms. They must have sensed urgency in my eyes or face. Because they would let me use bathrooms. I have seen bathrooms that you would not think

Scott Benner 11:31
existed. Yeah. What's behind this sheet in the in the clothing store? Oh, my goodness. All right. All right. This is where they keep the mop bucket. Okay. Absolutely. So you had you had stomach pain and loose stool? To say the least? And yeah, but no, but no. improvement. So what was said to you, as best you can remember as long time ago, but as best you can remember what was said to you about? I'm going to use Metformin. And then when you'd go in subsequently for other visits, what was the conversation like?

Karen 12:13
Well, just, you know, that I was doing okay, it was my primary care physician, who had been with me for a while I started with him. I hadn't had a real physician for a while. And when he started practice, I finally had some pain in my chest kind of more or less at the top of my stomach, you know, like a reflux thing. So, you know, I'm thinking heart, whatever. So I went in to him, and he's, he's been my doctor ever since. And now his kids who were about to at the time are adults. And through college, and so on. So it's been a few years.

Scott Benner 13:03
And so you're with this guy for a very long time. But for five years, you don't see. Well, I guess there's no, there's no worsening of it. Is that right? Right. So they're so in their mind, I'm guessing what that meant was, you would have gotten worse without the Metformin. So therefore, the Metformin is helping. I guess so. Yeah. But, but my point, Karen, is that there's not a lot of conversation around a lot of explanation, right, you're not right, you don't leave there feeling like you really understand what's happening to you. Right. Right. Okay. Right. Did the stomach problems ever go away with the Metformin? No, it's stuck with you forever.

Karen 13:48
But I also had reflux diagnosed separately, you know, right. Without taking the Metformin. So, later,

Scott Benner 13:58
let me ask you this 2004 is Oh, god, what's 2022? Give me a second. For give me a sum on this. Alright, so, um, so one, that's the one I'm accessing 818 years ago. That's not what I want to know those 69 minus 18. That's one. You were 51 when this started, okay, so,

Karen 14:24
but I should tell you something, go ahead. When I was 44 I had bad hemorrhoids. I had a hemorrhoid ectomy. internal external fistula, a whole smear, no bleeding problems. My mother has bleeding disorder that was discovered in Finland. So I was tested for it. Yeah, false. The doctor who tested me for looked at my hemorrhoid ectomy results and said, Oh, you had a very bloody sir GE no problems. You don't have von Willebrand disease. So,

Scott Benner 15:06
okay, hold on, let me carry on. Let me go slower here. Hold on a second. I think I have this. So, and again, we're having a good time. So you had very bad internal and external hemorrhoids that had excised somehow. And, and your mom has van Wilbur brands,

Karen 15:25
buying Willow brands, as do I Okay, but it's a bleeding disorder. Yeah.

Scott Benner 15:31
But the the doctor who examined you, I'm guessing you're getting ready to tell me just looked at your surgery and said, What? What were they? What were they inferring from the notes from your surgery?

Karen 15:44
He said, You had a very bloody surgery, and you didn't have any bleeding problems. So along with your testing, I don't think you have been well grants.

Scott Benner 15:58
Okay, because he thought that a bloody surgery would have led to something that would have indicated this.

Karen 16:04
Right. Okay. Now, two weeks before I saw him. I had quit taking birth control pills, because of my painful periods because I had had and Demetrius Okay. Okay. And well, I had the hemorrhoid ectomy. I was taking birth control pills to try to control the

Scott Benner 16:26
pain. Yeah, the pain not the bleeding. Monthly. No. Okay.

Karen 16:30
No. In fact, the only symptom I ever had was nosebleeds when I was a kid. And even then, it was iffy. You know, I had nosebleeds and yeah, it happened after I had a tonsillectomy. So before I had the tonsillectomy, I hit your eggs every night. But after I hadn't had select me, I did have to go back in for some clotting in my throat. But then I was fine.

Scott Benner 17:03
How old? Were you around the tonsillectomy? Like regular age? Four. Oh, really? Okay. Can I go backwards for a second to ask a question? Certainly. Did the removal of the hemorrhoids help with your issues?

Karen 17:18
While it was very painful, and I couldn't sit very well, I could stand but I couldn't sit very well. So yes.

Scott Benner 17:26
So So by the time you had gotten to the, to getting the, the procedure, you were not able to sit at that point.

Karen 17:36
Not very well, well, I kept shifting or you know, like, if I went to a movie, I was constantly moving. You know,

Scott Benner 17:45
was there bleeding with the hemorrhoids or just paying?

Karen 17:49
Very little bleeding? Okay, but he gave me some nitroglycerin ointment that worked. So that helped with the pain and the bleeding travels. zere.

Scott Benner 18:03
Interesting. Okay. So you weren't losing blood from the hemorrhoids? No. Okay. You were just in pain. And when you sat down, you were tilted one way or the other. Right? Yes. Okay. The endometriosis was being treated. I guess I'm making air quotes with a birth control pill was well, hopefully but it didn't really help. I was gonna say it didn't really help much. Right. Right. Okay.

Karen 18:35
So in February, I had a diagnostic laparoscopy which showed that I had endometriosis. For sure.

Scott Benner 18:47
Do they do something for that? Or? Well,

Karen 18:51
the next thing was a hysterectomy. In April

Scott Benner 18:58
How old were you then?

Karen 19:00
44 Okay. Oh no. 4535

Scott Benner 19:04
And you did you did this to me?

Karen 19:07
Yes. Yeah. Total complete. Self Pingle Oh for correcting me, et cetera.

Scott Benner 19:16
Wait, what did you just that's the

Karen 19:18
whole whole surgery name and got a whole you know, 20 letter. Description.

Scott Benner 19:27
I'm looking this one. I mean, you said oh, it was like you said nitroglycerin pills at one point. So I was like, what is happening here?

Karen 19:38
Was it it wasn't pills. It was anointment ointment. Excuse me. That's okay.

Scott Benner 19:43
I don't see the hysterectomy other name for it? Well, they

Karen 19:47
probably don't list it because it's my it's on my sheet.

Scott Benner 19:55
Wait, no hold on my diagnosis. Is it an offer? To me, overarching Yeah, so I won't be gone this far. Hold on a second Karen let's figure it out.

Karen 20:08
I think so Pingle refers to the fallopian tubes or something.

Scott Benner 20:13
It says the total hysterectomy is the surgeon removes your uterus and your cervix but not your ovaries. total hysterectomy is most common type hysterectomy with Oh, for ectomy, the surgery moves your uterus, one or both of your ovaries, and sometimes your fallopian tubes. Okay,

Karen 20:32
I don't have any of it. They just, it's gone anymore. It's all Yeah, it's all gone. And I had an appendectomy at the same time because my one ovary was bound into with scar tissue with the app, appendix. Holy

Scott Benner 20:49
crap. Karen, or do you have any brothers or sisters?

Karen 20:53
Yes. Brother,

Scott Benner 20:55
does he have any significant health issues?

Karen 20:57
Other than bipolar? No?

Scott Benner 21:00
Interesting. You sound like, it's so interesting. I don't want to say what I was gonna say. I'm waiting till we talk a little longer.

Karen 21:06
That's what I that's what I always tell my doctors I'm I'm always interested.

Scott Benner 21:13
That's for sure. So you're so your brother hasn't had his butt cut open or anything else like that? Okay,

Karen 21:18
no. All right.

Scott Benner 21:20
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Karen 24:44
My mom had hemorrhoid ectomy TWICE,

Scott Benner 24:47
TWICE. She loved it so much. She went back Yeah,

Karen 24:51
sir. In fact, my doctor at that time said this will be the worst pain you'll ever have. worse than childbirth or, you know, which I haven't had but

Scott Benner 25:06
take his word for his right. Yeah, five stars. Five stars. I love it will return. You tell me about the pain. How long did it last afterwards?

Karen 25:18
Well until you could really pass stool, it was bad. Because you're, I was afraid to push it off.

Scott Benner 25:27
I bet you know, days weeks,

Karen 25:31
probably at least a week

Scott Benner 25:33
and pain. Pain medication slows down your bowel motility. So I assume you don't want too much of that either. Right?

Karen 25:40
Right. But I still did.

Scott Benner 25:44
Heroin? No.

Karen 25:49
No. But he he had a step down. The surgeon was very good. I liked him a lot. He had a step down procedure. Like after a week or so I called and said, I'm running out of pain pills do How can I have some more? And they said, No, you can't have any more of those. But we have something else. Well, it all worked. As he stepped me down. It worked. So he obviously had it figured out

Scott Benner 26:16
and they didn't return. Is that right? No. Oh, good for you. That's excellent. Did you change your diet at all in in? Like, go with more fiber or like that kind of an idea?

Karen 26:28
Um, yes, but not just because of the hammer deck to me. Just just because I've always been fed tend tended towards him.

Scott Benner 26:38
I don't know what to say. I don't think I'm supposed to say that. But it's okay for you to like it's okay. I know what you're How tall are you?

Karen 26:49
I heat six.

Scott Benner 26:51
And how much do you weigh now?

Karen 26:52
Right now I weighed about 270.

Scott Benner 26:56
And through your whole life around that weight? No, no. How so? Where were you say in your 40s?

Karen 27:03
Um, well, depending on when but after I had the hysterectomy, I had lost way beforehand. But I was very, very thin because I bled all day, lost a lot of blood had to have blood products. And I was so thin. Yeah, people said I was anorexic. And when I was the ASEAN, I weighed 139 pounds because I tend to be very large bone. So, you know, I'm not saying large boned in the sense that some people say I'm saying I really am. I've never, ever had a boyfriend whose hands were bigger than my

Scott Benner 27:49
shoulders, things like that. You're saying? Yes. Okay, so when did you find out you had von Willebrand? I mean, you knew your mom had it. So

Karen 27:59
right. Well, after I bled all day with a hysterectomy, I was I had a hysterectomy. First thing in the morning. And then last thing at night. I went back in just before midnight to have a hematoma evacuation. In other words to take out the blood and clotting.

Scott Benner 28:21
Okay, that sounds terrible. I'm sorry, that just shocked me for some reason.

Karen 28:26
It was kind of serious. Yeah. Right. Yeah, that the doctor that I had had been my OBGYN residency supervisor, he does have some time in his office. And so they knew each. And this doctor also knew my mother. So he was familiar with von Willebrand and he was an ontology specialist. So he knew quite a bit about federal grants.

Scott Benner 29:00
And how do they help you with that? Or Can't they?

Karen 29:04
You can't give me too much after the fact. So he gave me a packed red blood cells. And I felt great.

Scott Benner 29:12
Really? Do you have a lot of them through your life? A lot of that what I would describe as like low iron feeling tired gaining weight, like from the from the iron?

Karen 29:24
Well, I do but not necessarily from that yet reason.

Scott Benner 29:29
Why do you think you do?

Karen 29:32
Um, I think from well, I have depression, bipolar. I'm fighting thyroid right now, which is why my weight is up, I think, because I can't seem to follow anything. And I'm, you know, I just think there's other things going on. Yeah. Go ahead. I'm sorry. Plus, the meds I take make you tighter,

Scott Benner 29:57
right. Thyroid you've learned about recently in your Life.

Karen 30:01
Yes, I just had an ultrasound on Tuesday.

Scott Benner 30:04
Are they calling it Hashimotos? or hypothyroidism?

Karen 30:07
I haven't. I haven't heard anything but I'm taking levothyroxine

Scott Benner 30:12
you're taking that? Said helping?

Karen 30:15
Yeah, somewhat but I'm on 50 micrograms. Okay, slowly. Yeah, slowly increasing, hopefully

Scott Benner 30:25
good. What what point did you realize you were depressed?

Karen 30:32
This would be after the, the. The history.

Scott Benner 30:40
Oh, I was gonna say the first time somebody dug into your butt because that would have depress the hell out of me. I would have been like, I mean, no,

Karen 30:47
that was like

Scott Benner 30:51
that's an indication of how bad the hemorrhoids were if they were like, so you're gonna put a speculum where and then cut? What sounds good. Hey, get in there, buddy. Okay, so after the hysterectomy. Had you had no indication of, of depression prior to that?

Karen 31:10
No, not really. Worrying. I was always super active did 1800 things? Yeah,

Scott Benner 31:17
yeah. Do you think it was a shift in your hormones that cause that? No, no. Was it the loss of the idea that you could have a baby? Did it depress you that way?

Karen 31:28
Well, that was a little bit depressing. But I already knew that. At age 44, you're kind of you know, thinking that yes, that anyway. And if you don't have a boyfriend or a husband or whatever, I don't think it's a wise thing to necessarily have a child. And

Scott Benner 31:46
did you want children?

Karen 31:49
Of course. As an elementary teacher,

Scott Benner 31:54
that might be enough kids. You know what I mean?

Karen 31:57
Yeah. I wouldn't have taken them home.

Scott Benner 32:02
Unless you never did illegally. That's nice. Oh, no, I wouldn't do the I didn't think you would kind of second. second ago. You just listed off a bunch more things. So I'm picking through them. So your your brother's bipolar. But you are? At what age did you realize you were

Karen 32:22
this would be at 44?

Scott Benner 32:24
Everything sort of happened at once? Hmm.

Karen 32:27
Yes. That's why I kind of interrupted you and went ahead and said, Wait a minute, but there's one more surgery

Scott Benner 32:34
that year, which was a gallbladder gallbladder took it out again.

Karen 32:40
Yes. Okay. And at that time, because of my reflux, they did something called a Nissen fundoplication. Where they wrap a part of the fundus, from the stomach around your esophagus to make like a false fails. Okay. It doesn't really work. But there is one plus I cannot lie.

Scott Benner 33:07
You can't finally, something happen on the positive side.

Karen 33:12
It sounds like a really weird. Plus, but you know, it's like, Oh, well.

Scott Benner 33:19
Aaron, I have to tell you, because your story is going to be part of the type two Story series. It's just going to be called type two stories and then Karen, but if it wasn't, I was gonna call it no fun. Does.

Karen 33:33
That would be good. Thank you. I wouldn't mind.

Scott Benner 33:37
It's so. Okay. I have sort of a big question for you. Yes. At some point in your life, do you just think, well, I got it. I gotta shift body. Like, like, I have way too many things wrong with me. And there's a lot of stuff here. Like, I mean, listen, it's easy to look in from the outside, right and see a person who's overweight and say, Oh, they don't try hard enough. Or they whatever. Exactly, yeah. But you have but I don't feel that way. No, I don't you have a good attitude? I don't imagine you do. But I'm just saying like you have so many things wrong with you like medically, that I'm starting to lose track of it where I'm writing it down. Because I had some notes I had to keep so I was like, Oh, this this is just the type to interview. I won't need my whiteboard. And now I'm writing in the gaps.

Karen 34:32
Thyroid I told you I told my doctors I'm always interested

Scott Benner 34:35
Well, no kidding. Gallbladder reflux, thyroid, endometriosis. Hemorrhoids that require surgery, bipolar, and depression and I missing anything.

Karen 34:50
Um, well, I also have some more autoimmune type things like I have localized psoriasis.

Scott Benner 35:00
Psoriasis I forgot one little brands. Okay, what else?

Karen 35:06
Um, I think that's about it because the thyroid we already covered. And when I went in to see the, the endocrinologist last month, because before that my PCP handled all of the diabetic problems or insulin prescriptions and that kind of thing. You know, I said to him, Am I really a type two? Because I listened to the Juicebox Podcast. And you're always asking him about this thing? And he said, Oh, yes, you definitely are. Well, I still question some of that.

Scott Benner 35:48
Karen, I have to tell you like as you're speaking, I kept thinking like, we sure she doesn't have type one diabetes. And not because not because we haven't even talked about your diabetes yet. But because right because the the bipolar and the thyroid and like, and the endometriosis and like it all feels like you're telling me is you just feels like you've come on as a type one and you're telling your story. Have they ever done testing?

Karen 36:14
No, not really. Um, I don't know why the cuz I've only seen him once. I don't know why the endocrinologist said that. Exactly. But I will ask him feature.

Scott Benner 36:27
I would I would love for you to get tested.

Karen 36:31
Yeah, I would do. I mean, if I say yeah, I want you to. Now bear in mind, I have been tested, I had so many blood tests. I had 16 tubes filled for four different doctors. Last time I went, got my blood drawn. So that was quite a bit.

Scott Benner 36:54
There was this one time, Arden was sent in for a diagnostic thing. And the the phlebotomist was like, oh, excuse me. And she left the room with this little tray and came back with more. There wasn't enough tubes in the room, Martin within. Arden looked at me and she's like, that that's a first and I said, Yeah. And she's like, Oh, and this lady just, I mean, we were having long form conversations. While this ball was coming out, it just felt like it wasn't going to stop. So. So you've never been tested for antibodies?

Karen 37:30
No, boy, that would not that I know of anyone.

Scott Benner 37:33
That would be I mean, that seems obvious to me. Because, well, go ahead.

Karen 37:38
Do you have any just seen the endocrinologist once though? You know, hasn't been on time to ask a question.

Scott Benner 37:48
Right. Okay. So let's do the rest of this. So, okay. Yeah. So you are eaten Metformin for five years in 2009? Somebody gives you insulin for the first time? Uh huh. How does that go?

Karen 38:03
Um, well, it was the day of a wedding of a friend and I missed the reception because my blood sugar was low. I hadn't expected it. I was taking Lantis and didn't really understand what I was doing, you know, so I thought, well, I better do that before I go to the reception and eat food and so on, but didn't really have a lot of instruction.

Scott Benner 38:29
So they just gave you Lantus and you would shoot it once a day. Yes, and nothing else at the time. No. Okay. Not then. And so without good direction you ended up low. And do you go back

Karen 38:44
super super low now that I know what that is, but at the time low?

Scott Benner 38:48
Why imagine for the first time any low feels scary as hell? Right? You know,

Karen 38:53
so I was afraid to drive 15 minutes to go to the reception, etc.

Scott Benner 38:59
Given me character driven memory, but

Karen 39:04
yes, I did. Okay. But I didn't know about Lowe's. Okay. So and the, the whole reception was full of EMTs I probably would have been okay and nurses

Scott Benner 39:17
out there. But, but tell me about that a little bit. So they give you this Lantis but they don't explain anything to you. You're just it's handed to you like a pill that you shoot with a needle. Is that right? Correct. Just take this now we're gonna do this.

Karen 39:32
Take this much. Do this. Yeah.

Scott Benner 39:35
No training, understanding what it's going to do what might happen or not happen what you're looking for with your meter. Nothing like that's described. Right? Okay. How long do you go on just doing Lantis?

Karen 39:49
Oh, I'm probably a year,

Scott Benner 39:53
a year. And then do they move you to a mealtime insulin as well?

Karen 39:57
Yes. Which I got moved to Novolog for fast acting and Novolog myth 7030 For long term.

Scott Benner 40:08
Okay, so just the Lantis was not doing anything for you. Right? Not doing enough, right? So now you're going to shoot it meals? What's the description from them about how to do that? What is your understanding of what you're about to start doing?

Karen 40:24
Um, well, I just followed directions, you know, the, how much I was supposed to take. And what times and then before meals, I had the sliding scale thing. So, you know, did the finger sticks. And, you know, of course, my problem with that is when you do finger sticks before your meal, you don't necessarily know how much you're taking, you know, as for carbs during the meal, and you don't know if afterward, you've really accomplished that, because they don't tell you to take your blood afterwards.

Scott Benner 41:05
So they would tell you to test at your mealtime and probably use some sort of a ratio they gave you that involve your your current blood sugar. And then you were supposed to say how much? How much how many carbs you were gonna eat? And then shoot?

Karen 41:21
No, nobody said that. How many carbs? I was going to eat just these just shoot

Scott Benner 41:24
this amount, and then don't look again after that. Right. Gotcha. What part of the country you live in? Michigan? Okay. It doesn't matter anymore. I get I give up. I don't trust anybody. It doesn't matter.

Karen 41:42
I will tell you this, that it is true that most type twos don't have a clue.

Scott Benner 41:49
Yeah, we're doing this.

Karen 41:52
You know, it's it's much easier to find things on Juicebox Podcast or on the Facebook group than it is for any type to group. Yeah. I've tried to find out.

Scott Benner 42:08
Current Tell me about that. So you're saying that you joined type two groups. But they weren't helpful? Not really, is it? Because it's full of people who are all lost and don't know what's happening?

Karen 42:21
Currently? Yes.

Scott Benner 42:23
Well, that's a shame.

Karen 42:25
Currently, yes.

Scott Benner 42:26
And I mean, you're not getting any. Listen, nobody told you what the Metformin was going to do what what their goal was, nobody's telling you what the insulins goal is, it's just do this. Thanks. Do you think? Can you step out of this as your as it step out of it for a second? Don't think, okay, as your story for a second, just look back at kind of look back at it? What, why? Why would someone not explain it to you? Do you come off? I'm being really like, serious now. Like, do you come off as somebody who just wouldn't understand? So it's not worth my time?

Karen 43:00
Now, I think I come off as somebody who already knows,

Scott Benner 43:03
okay, and so do you think that they think, Oh, I don't need to explain to Karen she understands it? Like, is your confidence? Maybe stopping them? Or do you think that this is just what happens?

Karen 43:16
I'm both. Okay. Partially both. Because I do know a lot about the physical body. If you're a physical education teacher who's not just moved into a position, you've had to take anatomy and physiology, you've had to take kinesiology, you've had, I have three physiology classes in college, you know, undergrad, that's not even the graduate. So, you know, I do understand a lot. So I think it does seem like that. That's a possibility. And also, in my family, I happened to have physicians, and about eight nurses. You know,

Scott Benner 44:03
I always feel like they're not they know something that they're not telling you. But But you're making me wonder if they don't know. And they're just like, Oh, good. She knows.

Karen 44:12
Yeah. Or she'll find out

Scott Benner 44:15
oh, yeah, but such an odd thing, isn't it? Like, especially with insulin, which can make you so low, dangerously low? If you lose it rock, use it wrong? And the idea is they'll figure it out is, uh huh. I don't know, the whole thing is just free

Karen 44:31
and my agencies were horrible.

Scott Benner 44:35
So it wasn't helpful. What were your agencies? 19 Oh, my God.

Karen 44:40
Well, yes. Then I brought it down each time. 19 then 12.

Scott Benner 44:48
Karen, let me ask you a question. I only ask you real serious question here. I don't know and I haven't been doing the types of stories conversations long enough. I don't have a real like slick way of saying this yet. Was So I'm just gonna say, are you eating your way to a 99? One C? Or is your body like just so incapable of handling it that any food drought drives? You highlight that? Probably both. Okay.

Karen 45:12
So is that what you eat? You know, but at the same time, then I happen to run in after a few years, went into a program nearby. There's a couple, they call themselves chick pea and bean and they have a foundation, that's 501, C three, and did meetings and so on. And they had a thing for diabetics for how to become vegan. And the reason that I did this is because the husband Mark reversed his type two,

Scott Benner 45:53
by being vegan. So you thought maybe that would be helpful.

Karen 45:57
Right? And, you know, I'm not looking for perfection. I mean, I don't exactly think that, I'm going to totally reverse it. But if it does a better job, you know,

Scott Benner 46:09
you could lose then and your agency would go down, and you'd feel better overall, you're not trying to be a Tiktok star or anything like that. You just want to write Yeah, you feel better. Did that not work for you?

Karen 46:21
It works great, but I couldn't keep falling it.

Scott Benner 46:25
Tell me why. So first of all, what endemic? So what does it work? Great mean? You were losing weight?

Karen 46:33
Oh, yeah. How much? I I lost at least 50 pounds. Oh, my God, I had to have another sleep study for my apnea. Because you know, it was over treating at that point. So yeah.

Scott Benner 46:51
You lost 50 pounds, just eating vegetable based, right meals. And then what what about the pandemic stopped you from doing that?

Karen 47:02
Well, my mom lives in a very small town. She's now 91, close to 92. If you're living alone, during the pandemic, that's no fun. So I moved back home with her, partly to you know, have somebody to be with but also to help take care of her a little bit. And my small hometown doesn't have a lot of possibilities, you know, and I was lacking in energy. I think the thyroid was getting me back then. Three, four years ago, and couldn't really do a whole bunch of things that I would like to write. So there you are, you know, Karen,

Scott Benner 47:51
she is it fair to say that you grew up? I don't know. I should be asking. Did you grow up in like an economically depressed situation? Like, did people not know about food? When they were raising you that kind of stuff? No, no. So so they didn't know about food? But you had money? I'm sorry, I shouldn't have mixed those questions.

Karen 48:15
No, that's okay. Um, when I was a kid, we didn't always have money, but we always knew what we're doing. But things have changed since I was good. I was born in 53. You know, used to be a good dinner to have fried chicken. How long it's been since I've had fried chicken, you know, I mean, we use polyunsaturated oils now is supposed to be good. Like, you know, you want to do that, you know, so,

Scott Benner 48:46
so just in general, people's understanding of nutrition was lacking. And so this is really interesting. Hold on a second. I said, cough. Sorry. We've been sick here for months. Now. I don't even know how I'm getting this podcast at this point. But I am not gonna cut that out. I swear to you, I had to start doing situps the other day because I think my wife's on her way out and I might have to date. So he's been sick for so long. It's just It's that good. She got the COVID that translated into bronchitis that seems to have gone into a third thing. She's been sick for like two months almost. And really beaten the hell out of her so but every day I know you've said that before. I mean, nothing like this has ever happened before. So we're it's kind of got the house on a is she 44 Karen, you're hilarious. Yeah, make me cough. I think I spilled something on my chest. So you grew up in this place where it In time, not not a place but a time when like you said fried chicken was good. You were loves that nice, hot, healthy, tasty meal and with throw some potatoes with it and their sin, and everything sort of goes in that direction. So were you heavy as a child?

Karen 50:18
Um, I thought I was, but I wasn't really okay. Um, again, I'm, I have a big frame. And I always seen my friends would be, you know, like little, you know, five, five foot people who were tiny anymore a size six, you

Scott Benner 50:37
know? Yeah, you're saying if you were born in 19, let's go further. If you were born in like, 2000, you would have just been on the girls rugby team in college or something like that would have like, kind of that kind of a built right. Alright, okay. So. But my point is, is that you're out of a generation that just doesn't know what food is supposed to be. And listen, we're all guessing right now that we're right now that we're correct right now, but 330 years from now, my kids might be on whatever our podcast is. 30 years now go and listen. We were eating like this. And we thought it was good. You know? Yeah. So I take the point that we kind of went from the Depression era, where those people, they didn't have anything. And then things got better and the 50s happen and Leave It to Beaver. And now we're all gonna live in houses and smile and everything and, and one person's working in one person's not there's plenty of food moms at home cooking, and making these big meals. And that's the that mom grew up as a child, probably not even eating every day. So that changes the psychology of around food there. And I mean, you already know like food pyramid, which I think is basically been debunked. Yeah. And like you said, like, they were coming up with these. Well, there's that whole thing right where I don't want to dig into it, because I don't know enough about it to talk about it. thoughtfully. But I think the the sugar lobby put out this report to make oils look bad or oils to shoot, I don't know it was one of the other and

Karen 52:18
when and then the, you know, like pork, the other white meat, they hired surgeons to cut the fat out of those meats that they tested.

Scott Benner 52:30
Right like things things like that were going on. There was a marketplace. tomfoolery going on for like sugar was like, Hey, listen, it's fats fault. That was like it sugars fault. And like, you know, and, and then one, one idea takes hold, almost like the like almost like, you know, VHS and Betamax. There's this argument in public and one of them wins. And then we go in this direction. And so we acted like sugar wasn't a problem, even though sugar stored as fat. So, you know, if you ever had gone to like a water ice place, or like an Italian ice place, and there's a sign up that says no fat, like this, like you're eating, it's sugar. And as soon as your body gets it, it's like lost or this as fat. If you didn't intake any fat, but your body turned it into fat. And right. And so now they're coming up with the idea of like, well don't eat red meat, because it'll give you a heart attack or this and we're going to come up with other oils, canola, vegetable, like all these other words, these are going to be healthy oil, which is I've said on here before, if you've ever deep fried something, fill them fill the pan out, deep fry it, and then look and see how much less oil is left in the pan when you're done. That oil is in the food. Right? But if I scooped out a cup of that oil and said Here drink this, you'd go no, no, I would. I would never do that.

Karen 53:57
I've just been watching Life in Alaska in the Arctic Circle, I think it was called. And they're, they're eating fat because they need it to stay warm and to be healthy. Right? Wow.

Scott Benner 54:13
My greater like rambling point is, is that you could just be a mix of wrong place wrong time. crappy, crappy genetics.

Karen 54:26
Now, let's also add in the point that I've done four times, fasting weight loss programs under medical supervision through our hospital and lost weight each time but can't keep it off.

Scott Benner 54:40
How much did you lose doing the fasting?

Karen 54:44
Oh, 75 pounds the first time 100 pounds later, you know?

Scott Benner 54:50
What was the most recent time you did that? How old were you?

Karen 54:53
Um, it was I'm trying to think probably 20 Some years ago, while maybe more like before the hysterectomy, maybe, because I had done that right before and I was doing it during the time that my doctor told me that when I had the hyponatremia from gallbladder surgery, I couldn't keep doing that, because I had gone back down to my lowest weight. I see. You can't, you can't see me diet anymore. You need to get more calories more, you know? Well, you don't tell a fan. Sorry, you can't do it anymore. Do

Scott Benner 55:39
you think you have a psychological attachment to food?

Karen 55:45
I think I have some, but I don't know anybody who does that.

Scott Benner 55:50
Right? Do you just think you over eat more than than the average Overeater. Now I really know it. But that's interesting. I'll tell you something, Karen. I have I don't know if I've ever said along here. But I am the fattest person who doesn't eat that you'll ever meet in your entire life. Like I don't, I'm not a big food person. i There's, there's times in my life where I thought maybe I'm just not eating enough. Like maybe my body thinks we're starving. And it's like holding on to fat.

Karen 56:17
But yeah. Especially when some of these thin people say, Oh, I wish I could gain some weight. If I eat more, I lose. Well,

Scott Benner 56:31
you're way though, like the funny part of that statement? That doesn't make a good point. Like some people's metabolisms just run differently. I think that's pretty obvious. And at the same time, underlying other underlying medical issues could be keeping weight on you like your thyroid or stuff you might not even know about, right? You know, I get through this illness. I think I said this recently, but I had to take a steroid pack to get rid of my bronchitis, they gave me an antibiotic, right? And, and for the 10 days, I'm on the steroid, I'm like, This is amazing. Like, like, the first thing that happens is my like, the, the liquid in my body like regulates, like IP, like crazy for like 20 hours. And if you Google, it'll tell you like steroids raises your blood sugar and some people urinate that that is not what's happening to me. Like, like, my back stops hurting. You know, I, I lose five pounds of water weight, my back stops hurting, I feel terrific. Etc, etc. As soon as the theory is gone, you know, the the water weight comes, I've retained water my entire life, like I'm pregnant. I mean, there's just no other way to put it. Like I my body retains water. And I mean, in a world where we can't get a doctor to explain what Lantis is going to do to you. I don't have a lot of like, serious Yeah, yeah. Like, like people like you should go to a doctor like for what? So they can go try sit up through this, like, you know, nobody knows. Like, great. You have

Karen 58:08
to find the right doctors. I'll tell you I'm I'm very encouraged right now. Because back years ago, I went with a friend that I met online, had COPD, and was trying to quit smoking. So she went to a quit smoking clinic at Mayo Clinic. And I learned a lot about Mayo Clinic then. And my new hematologist is from Mayo Clinic. And he called me firstly, I saw him and then went down and he had bloodwork done. I'm at home and he called me said your blood glucose was 67. And I wanted to make sure you were okay. He called me not a

Scott Benner 58:56
nurse, right. Somebody helped and cared and was concerned and understood what to be concerned about. Well, how did you

Karen 59:04
different from from Mayo Clinic, that's kind of how they work. And it's like, wow, and he's called me again to discuss what my bloodwork is because you look at just my blood work. I don't have von Willebrand disease. It's interesting, but there's another component to the diagnosis, which is experience. Actually, that got the experience

Scott Benner 59:31
and everything else so so tell me something you you get this you get this incident 2009 That's still a long time ago I didn't start the podcast till 2015 So what was your What was your experience between then and when you found the podcast?

Karen 59:49
Ah, bleeding for mean for the fan will advance

Scott Benner 59:53
no need for the diabetes now like for type talk? What was your What was your life like? 2009 until one Whenever you think of it as getting this

Karen 1:00:01
kind of random, you know, I was trying, but I didn't seem to be doing anything effective. I had the high a onesies and you know, didn't know what to do and I kept bringing it down, but at the same time, the lowest I ever got it was nine on my own. Then I started listening to while my doctor said, you should get a CGM. Okay, so he wanted me to get libre to. And I called the talk to the DME who I cannot say enough goodness, about this DME, but they said, Well, I said, I'm worried that if I wear it on my arm or leg or something like that, I'll knock it off. And they say, Well, if you want to wear it on your abdomen, you have to get the Dexcom. So I got the Dexcom. You know, and the G six is wonderful and that I brought my eight onesies down to it first it was 6.6, then six point you now below six. And I've gotten to the kidney specialist and the endocrinologist and they've all said, Keep doing what you're doing. You're like, Okay, I'm doing better. But what am I doing?

Scott Benner 1:01:30
Is is the addition of the CGM just allowing you to see I mean, it's pretty, it's pretty obvious, right? It just allows you to see where your blood sugar is, how you can more effectively move it and what and what food is doing to you.

Karen 1:01:45
Exactly, that's it. And it allows me to adjust a little bit like if I find I'm going high, for example, if I'm sick, or if I've had a vaccination, my blood sugar might be higher. So then I increase a little bit on my fast acting. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:02:06
It taught you you can see basically, you can see inside of your body now and it teaches you how to it teaches you how to use insulin, right? I mean, it's funny because I think people might expect some bigger epiphany. But that's it. Really, if you can see, I didn't know you're using a CGM. But if you can see your blood, you can use insulin correctly. And that stops spikes and lows. Have you lost weight on a CGM?

Karen 1:02:36
No, no. I've gained you've gained weight, believe it or not? Well, and I think that goes to the thyroid. Oh, okay.

Scott Benner 1:02:44
Yeah, you do have a lot of different components. So your goal right now is to get your thyroid medication dialed in. Right, if that doesn't start to help you, what about going back to the vegan stuff? Karen, how come we don't do that?

Karen 1:03:00
I'm going to do that. I went to an online class, but chickpea and Bing did, and they're very supportive. They live near me. So we haven't been able to do anything that online for the last few years. But I'm hoping that we'll be able to go in person, I'm better in person. If I see people in person, I'm better off to get knowledge or to better, you know, yeah. catch on to things.

Scott Benner 1:03:34
Are you still ahead? I'm sorry. Good.

Karen 1:03:36
I'm sorry. I had to take a class once. Couldn't get it any other way. And I had to do it through by mail. You know, the correspondence courses? Yeah. It was the worst class.

Scott Benner 1:03:49
Are you are you able to exercise at all?

Karen 1:03:53
Yeah, somewhat. Okay.

Scott Benner 1:03:55
So, do you live with your mother still?

Karen 1:03:59
Somewhat? About 50% of the time maybe.

Scott Benner 1:04:03
Okay. And that's the whole power. Yes, yeah. Okay, is there anything it's hard?

Karen 1:04:11
Hard to do my own thing though. She's very resistant to it. And she grew up on a farm with up you know, during the Depression, they always did have enough food because he lived on a farm. And you know, it was a dairy farm so if you're talking beef or dairy boy, my mom's really into that. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:04:38
Not so much into tofu or something like that. No, no, that at all. And, and you don't have any trouble. When you're vegan, you're, it's easy. It's easy for you when you're doing it or do you struggle to

Karen 1:04:52
know it's easier? It is much easier. I can eat as much as I want. First of all, Secondly, I'm full from eating more fiber and so on, I think more so than I was when I was in the fasting programs and then adjusting to eating again. And I had dieticians, counseling me, and, you know, all meetings and everything to support but you know,

Scott Benner 1:05:27
in the end, it's, it's calories in, that's what it is, right? It's, it's you have to write even amount of calories for you right now you're trying to lose weight. So you have to be at a deficit so that you lose weight. And then once you get to the weight you need to be you need to be at a don't go back into a surplus so that you can maintain the weight,

Karen 1:05:45
right? But being vegan, you can pretty much eat whatever you want. And you're not going to kind of go over that you don't reach this is the easiest thing I've ever done. Wow. And let me tell you, I, I fought so hard with the fast food programs. One time I went to a store, and I was trying to find something like most women will experience this if they had a period, you know, that you just get where you want to talk about eating kitchen, you just want to eat anything, you know, and you're looking for something that will satisfy you. And it's pretty hard to find it. I did the grocery store. And these are following me. Because I think they thought I was trying to steal things. And I was reading the nutritional labels to find something that was going to satisfy me, but would not be too much of a calorie load. Yeah. No,

Scott Benner 1:06:53
no. Oh, my gosh. So you are managing your diabetes right now just like a type one does. You're on a basil and pretty much are you planning to use the pump?

Karen 1:07:03
No, no, no, I would like to be in a way. Okay, I think

Scott Benner 1:07:09
you're shooting a Basal insulin and covering your meals with fast acting. Correct. Okay. And you learned that on the podcast? Yes. I'm happy for you that this is going well.

Karen 1:07:22
I mean, I still, I still do what my doctors have said, but I've added a little bit from the podcast to help you. And from the the Facebook page.

Scott Benner 1:07:33
Oh, and the Facebook page is helpful for you even though you have type two because you're using

Karen 1:07:37
it right. And because I was on a Dexcom page and Facebook, someone said go to choose backs. It's for type ones. But you'll learn things that will apply. Yeah. So that's how I got to the page and then to the Juicebox Podcast.

Scott Benner 1:07:56
I'm glad. Well, that's excellent. I'm happy that it's helping you. Thank you. Oh, no, please. It's my pleasure. All right. Karen, hold on a second. Yes, there was way more to remember about you than I thought there was gonna be I keep waiting for, by the way, not one of these has gone the way I expected so far. Which is good. Because I thought well, let me do stories about people with type two. You know, see if we can't get more people with type two to step up. I do think there is there is some theme, which is no, no really different than any other illness for some reason, which is Nobody tells me what what's happening. I just you have this take this pill you have this inject this, like that kind of stuff. Nobody really explains and I'm beginning to believe that they don't know. You know, so

Karen 1:08:47
I don't know. But with the bleeding disorders, the Hemophilia Foundation, which I don't know if final brands is really a haemophilia or not, but it's covered by them, ego to support meetings, and they have sessions where they teach you about various things. They have camp for the kids that it's all run by the Hemophilia Foundation in which I don't feel like the diabetic kids are getting seems like there's, there's more individual or something that people are going to different states or you know, I didn't really understand that. So that might be my problem. But to me, that's much more supportive. And I learned much more about being a fleet disordered individual than I have about having diabetes. And there's more people with diabetes, even tied to walk pin.

Scott Benner 1:09:50
Karen, I believe I, I'm starting to believe, like I have like short term goals for the podcast, long term goals for the podcast and you know, The size of the podcast I keep, I think about like, well, the podcast helps people because I make it, it keeps it out in the world, new people find it, they can mine it for information. But if I just stopped making the podcast, it will wither away and die. Like that's how people's minds work. Like you don't I mean, like, people complain that all the new movies suck. But no, but nobody goes back and watches, you know, bullet or something like, you know, they, the old stuff is old. And so to keep helping people, you have to continue to make the thing. And I keep thinking like, how is this going to like long term? Like, how do I get it to a point where it can long term help people? Because this is not, this isn't crazy, right? Like, some doctors don't have a good job of explaining your diabetes to you. We hear those stories from people and don't, and those people's lives are worse for it. And how are we going to get to a point where that's not the case? Like what's the answer? And there are times that I think that in the current model, that answer doesn't really exist. Like there's no like thing, like, there's no magic thing that people aren't doing that if they just did it, everybody who had diabetes would be doing better. I think I think maybe what the podcast is teaching me is that this is it's sort of a virtual meeting. Right? Like they might you can go to on your own schedule, fight. And I I'm almost thinking there are days when I think that's what it is. It's almost like it's almost like AAA, on some level, and, and with management talk mixed into it. And I don't know that there's a better way right now like that, with the technology that exists for reaching people. I don't know if I don't know that there's a better way than this, this idea. So hopefully, someone comes up with it. But I don't think it's not a brochure. It's not a video you watch online one time. It's not a you know, it's not a checklist, like these things have all been tried. They don't help. So, anyway, I found it.

Karen 1:12:15
I do think that the Hemophilia Foundation has found a way to do that. I don't know if it's because it's a smaller population, if it's because they've started getting drug companies involved, which he didn't used to when I first started going to their things. You know, that money is helping, but at the same time, you know, gee, where's the support? How come nobody knows anything? Um, it's also loosey goosey.

Scott Benner 1:12:46
I don't think they know how to deliver it. And I think that this is, I think, I think that I found the most successful way so far, to help people understand diabetes. It's this, and it's not just make a podcast, because trust me, after I made one, a lot of other people tried, and it's no disrespect any of them. I think it's wonderful, but I can see who listens to podcasts. And those other podcasts are not listened to on any great. Like, with any great amount of, I don't know, a big, it's not a big level. And so, so there's something about the information, the format, me, the people who come on, like, you know, all that mixed together is just working, and there's no way to take credit for it, but generally means like, it's like a it's like a TV show that's on for 15 seasons. It's not it's not like they sat down on day one, and they're like, let's make a let's make mash. You know what I mean? Here's what it's gonna be, it's gonna last forever, people are gonna love it, blah, blah, blah, it's gonna, you know, you don't plan something like that. I just got lucky. Like, whatever this is, however, it occurs to me to do it. It just seems to work. And

Karen 1:14:01
yeah, but you're Alan Alda. You have a perception of people, and what they think and feel that is unusual. And I think yeah, it pays off.

Scott Benner 1:14:14
You know, it's funny that somebody said to me, I don't want to say who I talked to when I said this, but I told them I said, I think part of my job is kind of counterintuitive to how people think like people go out into these spaces, they like well, the people will tell you what they need. And you know, we'll just we'll we'll give them what they want. And to some degree, I give you what I think you need. I don't stop to think about I mean, I'm not I'm not I'm not unfeeling about people's feelings or anything like that. Like I'm not harsh, but we don't like if we didn't you and I, for example, didn't spend 20 minutes talking around the fact that you weigh what you weigh. You don't like we didn't nice it up and we didn't You've called yourself fat and we just started talking, that's an honest conversation. And is it gonna hurt someone's feelings? Like, I hope not, but maybe it will. But what I can tell you for sure is that if you went on, you know, a podcast run by like some big diabetes organization and started calling yourself fat, they'd never put that online that nobody would this would get cut up or you know, diced up. This is a real conversation, you're 69 year old lady who's got a ton of health issues. And I don't have type two diabetes, although I really want you to go get an antibody test. And, and, and this is this is your life, like you just laid it out for us? Nobody does. everybody's worried about it's going to hurt someone's feelings or it's going to be perceived incorrectly. I don't care about that. Like, I want to figure out why people with type two diabetes. Don't get help. Yeah. Why don't they? And my big question around it is why don't they understand what they have? How come every person I talked to with type two? Doesn't know what what's happening to them.

Karen 1:16:05
That's what I want. Why I wanted to talk to you. I mean, when you invited me it was just not a good time at that point. And then I had to have knee surgery and then my reading became up.

Scott Benner 1:16:19
Can we put effort into getting you on this podcast? We really did and I'm glad that we did. I'm glad we did it. Seriously.

Karen 1:16:26
Thank you so much. And I really appreciate you being flexible because once I bollocks stuff don't trying to put it on my calendar.

Scott Benner 1:16:36
Don't even think twice about this is well worth it. By the way. I have to go because I have to record with Jenny and a little bit. Okay, but John Philip Sousa wrote Stars and Stripes Forever. Yes. He's, uh, he was uh, he wrote a lot of like, what I guess we'd call like patriotic music back then. Which is Stars and Stripes. Hold on one second. All right. Is the stars destroyed forever public domain. Old enough to be in the public domain. So all you need to perform a song isn't okay. It is. Oh, that means I can play a little bit of it at the end. All right. I'm gonna go I appreciate you doing this. So much. Hold on for one second for me. I want to talk to you just before you go. Okay. Okay, thank you so much. Thank you

first, a huge thanks to Karen for coming on the show and sharing so honestly, and of course dexcom.com forward slash juice box head over and get yourself the Dexcom G six or Dexcom G seven continuous glucose monitoring systems. Don't forget the contour next gen is that contour next one.com forward slash juice box. super accurate, easy to use. And lovely to hold in your hand. Contour next one.com forward slash juice box dexcom.com forward slash juice box. Fill out the survey AT T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juice box. Want to save 35% on your entire order@cozier.com you can with the offer code juice box 10% off your first month of therapy@betterhelp.com forward slash juice box. And of course, get a free I didn't even mention this the beginning. Get a free five travel packs a free year of vitamin D with your first order of athletic greens from athletic greens.com forward slash juice box. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast but just let me say this before I go. If you have type two diabetes, and you're looking for a place to talk to other people with diabetes, check out the private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes, but don't let that name throw you. It's for everybody who has diabetes Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes is a private Facebook group with over 40,000 members. Actually here at the end, I'd like to throw in a plug for the type two Pro Tip series that I did with Jenny Smith. You can find it in the featured tab. On the private Facebook group. There's a list of them. You can also find them at juicebox podcast.com or search your podcast player for juicebox type two pro tip