+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

---

DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 892 of the Juicebox Podcast.

This episode started so bizarrely that I've chopped off the front of it and put it at the back of the episode so you can hear it. Mary is the mother of a child with type one diabetes. She came on to tell her story, but somehow, somehow her scheduled recording slot was while she was on vacation. So she did this from a hotel. And at first she tried to do it from her car, and then back into the hotel room, but her kids had to go outside. It's comically funny about the interruptions and the noises. But somehow it all goes together in this episode, so I think you'll find it delightful. There are chunks of time when I just cut out noises so you don't have to hear them. I hope this doesn't stop you from listening to it. You really shouldn't. It's rather interesting. Anyway, nothing here that Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan and becoming bold with insulin. You know that one? If you have type one, or you're the caregiver of someone with type one, please complete the survey AT T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox. It helps diabetes research and helps you It helps me t one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox. Alright, we're almost up to it. today's podcast is sponsored by Omni pod. Now Omni pod makes the Omni pod five which is automated. And the Omni pod dash which is not but they're both tubeless and amazing. And you can learn more about them at Omni pod.com forward slash juice box. This show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries. G voc hypo Penn. Find out more at G voc glucagon.com. Forward slash juicebox. Why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself and then we'll like talk for real although I have to imagine a lot of the noise is going to be at the end of the episode for people listen to it. But that's

Mary 2:12
so my name is Mary and I live in Savannah, Georgia. I my son Jackson, who just turned eight was diagnosed may 5, um, of 2020 2020 with type one

Scott Benner 2:35
over two years now.

Mary 2:38
No, I'm sorry. It's been he just had his one year in May. Excuse

Scott Benner 2:41
me. 2021. Okay, so how old is he now?

Mary 2:45
He just turned eight. Jackson, right.

Unknown Speaker 2:48
Yeah.

Scott Benner 2:52
Do you have any, any autoimmune issues?

Mary 2:55
No, not that I'm aware of. But what was interesting was my husband had been diagnosed type two for years, you know, and he'd been on Metformin and whatnot. And then I would say maybe about five or six months post Jackson's diagnosis. I was noticing at night that my husband, his name is Keith. He was like going to the bathroom, like ferociously at night, you know, like multiple times and like, you know, like Niagara Falls. I mean, it was like, there's something going on. So I said to him after about the second night, I'm like, You need to go check your sugar because this is like exactly what we went through with Jackson. And he did and the it just read Hi.

Scott Benner 3:45
So did they decide that his medication was wrong or did he develop type one?

Mary 3:51
He has type one it was it's the later or Latta however, it's pronounced. Yeah, he went, and he got off the medication and he's on a pump now. He had all the testing done everything and I mean, everything just came back. Wow. In that in the type one direction how long

Scott Benner 4:12
was Keith being treated for type two?

Mary 4:15
Um, see me about six or seven years really long time?

Scott Benner 4:23
Do they think he had type one the whole time and it was just it was just Lada. And it was just the onset was very slow.

Speaker 3 4:29
Yeah. Oh, that's a shame. Do I know

Scott Benner 4:33
Yeah. Do you look back did it did it impact his life? Not knowing it was Lada?

Mary 4:39
Yeah, I mean, well, I look that I mean, he's always like, loved, you know, sugar. And, you know, like his, you know, like his moods. And things, you know, like looking back, it's like, wow, this makes sense.

Scott Benner 4:57
Did you find yourself applying your professional knowledge? Do his behavior and coming up with the wrong answer, but it looks right. No, no, you didn't do that. I gotcha. You mean like when you see like, like the anger or something like that, or like behavior changes because of blood sugars, it's easy to think of them as maybe being something else. So I was just wondering if that ever happened?

Mary 5:21
Well, I mean, I never thought about the types Hill. You know, like, I didn't think I didn't know much. I mean, I knew about type one because my maternal aunt is type one, she developed type one. God when she was like, in her mid to late 40s. Okay. And she'll tell you that it's because of her husband, and all the stress and he put on her

because there's no other at least that we know of autoimmune stuff. Okay. In our family.

Scott Benner 5:57
So your aunt has type one, your husband has type one. And now your son.

Unknown Speaker 6:03
Yes. Got it. Okay.

Scott Benner 6:08
Well, how did you notice your son's diagnosis? Like, did it come up on you harshly? And did you end up in the hospital? Or do you figure it out before it happened?

Mary 6:18
No, he, he got COVID. Which I was not suspecting at all. Like he, he fell asleep on the way home from baseball practice. Um, one evening, and which never happened. It just was out of character. And then we got home and he was burning up. He had like 102. So I gave him Motrin. You know, he went to bed, woke up in the morning completely fine. So I was just keeping them out for that day and was ready to send them back. And the school was like, No, we need to COVID test. I was like, Oh, alright, whatever. It's not COVID. You know? He went in and tested positive for COVID. And then I would say, three or so weeks, that was an April. Yeah, it was about two to three weeks that we were noticing. He was more tired. He didn't look right, you know, his color was off, he was more pale. And it looked like he was starting to lose weight. And every morning, every single morning, he would wake up wet. I mean, wet to the point where it was like, obviously, there was something wrong, like he had never He doesn't do that, you know, he was six years old at the time. And I mean, it was so bad. And every morning. Just he was so upset. And you know, it's funny, because just to go off topic for a second. Looking back, he would wake up some mornings, really cranky, you know, he's not a morning person anyway. But some mornings, he'd wake up just really cranky. And I would think to myself, he just needs like some shirt, like some juice or sugar to pep him up. And he would do that he'd drink a cup of orange juice every morning. And he would be a completely different person. Hmm. Which is so interesting to me. But anyway, so I noticed the you know, the wetting the bed was really concerning. And the thirst and you know, so one of my good friends is a pediatrician. And I was like, I'm bringing him in, I want like the glucose tested, you know, your everything tested, and we went in, and it was funny because the nurse came in, she did the finger poke. And she had a lollipop with her. And because, you know, he was gonna get a needle, right? So she, she took his blood, and it just the, the meter just set high. And she's like, well, it gets you're not going to be getting this and lovely. Say Chase. Okay. And you know, he had high ketones and everything in the urine. So the pediatrician came in was crying

Scott Benner 9:27
the pediatrician. So in just a couple of moments that the nurse has waved a lollipop in front of your son and then said, No, he can't have it. And the pediatrician was crying.

Mary 9:37
He was crying, dude. Like what? I mean, look, I come from the northeast, like things are different in the south, I'll tell you, but like, I just thought that was very, like inappropriate,

Scott Benner 9:49
unprofessional nonsense, a lot of things, actually. But

Mary 9:53
I mean, it's like, he's a great guy. He's a good doctor, but like, I was just very taken aback. So I just was like, like he couldn't even get the words out that he had type one whereas like I kind of already knew. So I just remember like it was yesterday I pulled my mask down I looked him dead in the face and I'm just like

Scott Benner 10:20
gee voc hypo pan has no visible needle, and is a pre mixed auto injector of glucagon for treatment of very low blood sugar. In adults and kids with diabetes ages two and above. Find out more go to Jeeva glucagon.com forward slash juicebox G voc shouldn't be used in patients with insulinoma or phaeochromocytoma. Visit G voc glucagon.com/risk. My daughter Arden began wearing the Omnipod tubeless insulin pump on February 4 2009. That was 5093 days ago. Or another way to think of it 1697 pods ago. At that time, she was four years old. Hang out with me for a moment while I tell you more about the Omni pod Omni pod.com forward slash juice box. Today Arden is 18 and still wearing Omni pod back then there was one choice just one pod but today you have a decision to make. Do you want the Omni pod five, the first and only tubeless automated insulin delivery system to integrate with the Dexcom G six, because if you do, it's available right now for people with type one diabetes ages two years and older. The Omni pod five is an algorithm based pump that features smart adjust technology. That means that the Omni pod five is adjusting insulin delivery based on your customized target glucose that's helping you to protect against high and low blood sugars, both day and night. Automatically. Both the Omni pod five and the Omni pod dash are waterproof, you can wear them while you're playing sports swimming in the shower the bathtub, anywhere really. That kind of freedom coupled with tubeless a tubeless pump, understand it's not connected to anything. The controller is not connected to the pot, the pod is not connected to anything, you're wearing it on the body tube loosely, no tubing to get caught on doorknobs or anywhere else that tubing with those other insulin pumps can get caught Omni pod.com forward slash juice box, that's where you go to find out more, you may be eligible for a free 30 day trial of the Omni pod dash, you should check that out too, when you get to my lake omnipod.com forward slash juicebox. So if you're looking for an insulin pump that is tubeless waterproof, and automated. You're looking for the Omni pod five, if you want to do it on your own, and you're not looking for the automation, Omni pod dash for full safety risk information and free trial Terms and Conditions. Please also visit omnipod.com forward slash juicebox.

Mary 13:17
Is this a life threatening emergency right now? He's like, No, ma'am. It's that I'm like, do I have time to go home and pack a bag? And he's like you have about an hour. I'm like, peace. See you later, dude. Like we're out?

Scott Benner 13:28
Did you give them your business card for you? Like, hey, I'm a psychotherapist. And you're not great at this. So you might want to talk to somebody. Did you ever resolve why he was crying?

Mary 13:41
Well, it's funny because he called the room the next day to check on Jackson. And I was like, he's like, I just I'm just so so upset about this. And I mean, I was like, Look, we're being really positive about this, buddy. You know, this isn't a death sentence. I mean, we're gonna we're gonna crush this, we're gonna be just fine. You know, like, you know, in my adrenaline driven state, you know, and trying to be super positive in front of Jackson. And I was like, it sounds like you got a little upset or looks like got a little upset over there yesterday. He's like, Yeah, I

Scott Benner 14:14
just see a younger person.

Mary 14:17
No, he's older. He's like, I don't know, maybe in his early 50s, late 40s. He has three kids, three boys. Interesting. I just I'm not used to delivering bad news. And I was like, You're a frickin doctor.

Scott Benner 14:31
He's like, I'm a pediatrician. I usually just tell you if they get taller, I'm like, look at this chart. See how they're growing on this thing? I gotta go to the next room now. See you later the lady. Oh,

Mary 14:42
yeah, no, it's like two seconds.

Scott Benner 14:44
Yeah. That's that's interesting. Might have is definitely not the right job for him. That's for sure.

Mary 14:51
I know and he wins like Best of Savannah every year.

Scott Benner 14:56
People are probably like, he's so empathetic. I'm not wrong, right? Like, it's nice for empathy but like, he, you're looking for somebody to like, present a bit of a, like a, I don't know, like a reasonable just comport yourself differently. Right. Um, I don't know what I'm trying to say like you shouldn't be.

Mary 15:16
Totally I mean, where I come from, you know, and the way I was trained like that is ethically inappropriate. And also like, you don't do that as a doctor in front of the

Scott Benner 15:26
child. Yeah, right. I mean, all right. Anyway, let's get past that, because we're not going to figure that out.

Mary 15:31
I know. So that I felt like I had to go into like, even more like superhuman mode to be like, you know, you are going to be just fine. You know, because Jackson was so scared. Yeah, we both were

Scott Benner 15:42
right. Let's forget that the person that you think of as knowing everything came into the room crying telling you what's wrong with you, because that's just very often is Jackson had any, like, repercussions from that? Or is it a moment that just got passed and pretty easily?

Mary 15:56
passed him pretty easily?

Scott Benner 15:58
It's a lot happening the next day, I would imagine probably took his mind off of it. How long were you in the hospital?

Mary 16:05
We were in the hospital. Three days, two nights,

Scott Benner 16:10
and you leave with technology are no no, nothing. Just needles.

Mary 16:17
Just needles, you know, typical, like mo with diabetes. Like here, we're just giving you what you need to stay alive. And like go Google everything. Good luck, you know,

Scott Benner 16:29
COVID diagnosis to right.

Unknown Speaker 16:32
Yeah.

Scott Benner 16:33
So did they limit people in and out of the room? Or?

Mary 16:37
No, he had been past that two week mark. Okay. So we were all right. But it's funny because the, the dietitian and all the doctors that and nurses that were in and out, they all taught us, you know, like everyone says they teach you to eat and then Bolus. And then they were like, there's a new endocrinologist here at the hospital that you're gonna see. And, you know, he does things kind of differently. He's gonna want you to Pre-Bolus and, um, but we're not going to teach you that. That way. My husband and I were like, what's the photo frame? That's fine. I was like, What the? I mean, okay, so you're gonna teach? So, I mean, at that time, we were just like, I mean, that makes sense. I mean, you don't know how much he's really going to eat so sure. But and then we didn't see the doctor for like, a month. Yeah,

Scott Benner 17:42
that's what I was gonna say, right? If you didn't, it's not like you saw the doctor immediately. So they gave the hospital what, although it is kind of nice of them to say, look, we're gonna teach you one way, but at some point, you're gonna go to a doctor, and he's gonna talk about it differently.

Mary 17:56
Yeah, but I mean, I don't know, looking back. It's weird. It's just weird. It's like, well, I want to know, the new stuff. Like if it's new, there's like a new method to do it. That's like, help. What I want to know all

Scott Benner 18:10
about that, right. So. So in your note to me, you talk about mental health stuff, caregiver burnout, and a couple of other things that we're going to go through. So I'm going to start with you. I mean, it's it's been a year or so. Do you? Do you feel burned out already?

Mary 18:29
I did. You did.

Scott Benner 18:30
Okay.

Mary 18:32
Yeah. I mean, I, I'm, I'm like the person I'm, I'm in they're like, in a crisis. Awesome. Um, they're positive. I'm crushing it, but then I have, you know, a downtime after that, that is exhausting. Because I've just given more than I should, you know, and I, I definitely, I wouldn't say I got to the point of burnout, but I was very close to it, for sure. And you know, issues and my husband was diagnosed, and I have a four year old now. Um, it it's, it hasn't been until like, recently, really, that I feel confident, comfortable and like, centered in like, my role here in my my family. I mean, it's, it's just been the biggest upheaval ever,

Scott Benner 19:33
like, does it just feel like there's not enough time in the day, and then you don't have the energy and you sort of like, create that kind of fake energy to handle the thing and then you crash afterwards?

Mary 19:43
Yeah. And then there's like a checkout period, you know, like, I can't even think about, like, how many carbs are in this or I can't even like, like, have a conversation with anybody.

Scott Benner 19:58
I think I understand. And that lasted for how long?

Mary 20:05
I would say maybe like five months,

Scott Benner 20:09
about five months. How was that at the beginning? Or did it wait a little and then hit you

Mary 20:14
know, it it? It was, it definitely wasn't at the beginning because I was in like Rockstar mode, you know? So it probably a few months after that,

Scott Benner 20:27
okay. And when he was diagnosed you had your second was like three years old at that point. Yeah, that's a lot of fun. And you're working full time?

Mary 20:37
No, I had just started going back, like one day a week, I had been a stay at home mom for seven years. And I just started to go back to just like getting my feet wet again, because the kids were getting older, they're going to be at school full time. And like, I just I couldn't be at home anymore. You know.

Scott Benner 20:57
So you were just kind of embarking back on working when this happened? Did you? Were you able to keep that going? During the diagnosis? No, no, you're like, I'm back. I'm gone. Goodbye.

Unknown Speaker 21:09
I'm out. Peace out guys about a kid. You know.

Scott Benner 21:16
But you're back now. We're now wow,

Mary 21:19
you are so back now. I'm almost. Uh, let's see, I do about 25 hours a week now.

Scott Benner 21:26
Okay. And what's your training?

Mary 21:30
I have my Master's in Counseling Psychology. And I also have a degree in addiction counseling. Okay. Have you been licensed?

Scott Benner 21:42
Does that help you in your personal stuff? Or?

Mary 21:48
You know, to be honest with you know, I never really did until like, lately, you know, now I? I don't know, I it's just I don't know, I guess I just got more mature. After all this?

Unknown Speaker 22:04
How do you know don't say, how do you mean?

Mary 22:07
Like? Oh, I don't know, just being more like responsible with myself. And I guess yeah. Just like being more honest with myself about what I want. And what makes me happy and what doesn't? You know,

Scott Benner 22:28
it's interesting, isn't it? You can have a profession. And still, it's hard to apply the things in your own life.

Mary 22:36
Oh, absolutely. A lot of therapists are crazy, by the way. Sorry. All you people out there, like

Scott Benner 22:43
coming out for you. Or what do we mean?

Mary 22:47
Well, I mean, it's yeah, there's, there's truth to it, for sure.

Scott Benner 22:51
Gotcha. So it so you kind of get drawn to the profession, hoping to help yourself and then other people

Mary 22:59
100% at that back at that time.

Scott Benner 23:04
You broke up. Mary, are you there? Mary? What? Oh, you just broke up for a second back at that time. And then you disappeared?

Mary 23:13
Yeah. No, that's what it just back at that time? Absolutely. I mean, I was in my 20s wild and crazy, you know. So it turns out, I really like it. And I'm actually pretty good at it. So I really thoroughly enjoy my work,

Scott Benner 23:30
you should leave yourself a Yelp review that says I'm pretty good at it. So, so when? I mean, do you have? Do you have mental health issues at this moment with as as applies to diabetes? Are you seeing stuff with your kid? Or? No? Are you guys doing okay?

Mary 23:54
No, we're doing okay. I guess my only concern with with Jackson is he's, he's always been like an old soul. You know, he's a sensitive child. He's very intuitive. He's, he gets along with everybody. He you know, he's just he's a wonderful child. And I, I worry sometimes that he takes it to like the next level that he doesn't need to, whereas like, he's almost putting himself in this adult position. And I have to remind him a lot that this isn't your responsibility. This is for me to meet a deal but like with Luke, Luke is my other one. He's a maniac. Hilarious. He's just all over the place and like, Jackson gets very anxious at times. If Luke isn't close by, you know, if we're out and about somewhere or if I'm not holding Luke's hand, I just noticed that Jackson is it makes him nervous.

Scott Benner 25:07
Is that always her prior or just since diabetes? Since diabetes? Okay, so he worries about everybody.

Unknown Speaker 25:18
Yes, you have any anxiety?

Mary 25:21
Yeah, for sure. For sure. It's certainly gotten better than what how I used to be. I mean, I had a lot of like, postpartum anxiety. That's when it was really bad for me after both my pregnancies. But it's, it's settled down quite a bit.

Scott Benner 25:44
Did it happen naturally? Or did you do something to impact it? What your anxiety? Like, did you?

Mary 25:53
Did it happen?

Scott Benner 25:54
No, no? Did it? Has it been resolving naturally? Or have you been taking steps to do something for it?

Mary 26:00
Oh, yeah. I mean, I, when I was like, after I had my kids, I went on medication. And I have medication as like, like, as needed. Now, if you know, anything ever occurs, which it doesn't, but yeah, just getting back into, you know, healthier, saying, Who's that work? Like going to therapy going, you know, going for walks, spending more quality time with my loved ones, you know?

Scott Benner 26:36
I understand. I do, actually. How do you. So in your job, let's get away from you for a second in your job. If someone comes to you and says, I feel I think I feel depressed? How do you go about? Like, what are the steps you take to figure out the level of their depression? Or if they actually are depressed?

Mary 26:57
What does how long it was going on? And what if, you know, you're feeling depressed? Like, what does that mean? What does that look like? How like, what are you experiencing? So I'm looking for, you know, loss of interest in things, change in appetite, change in sleep, things like that. And go from there? If do all things started or triggered it, you know,

Scott Benner 27:29
do all of those things need to exist? Loss of appetite, a lack of interest in things that you were once interested in, like sleep? Etc? Do they all have to exist? Or could you just have bad sleep or just not want to eat? Like, etc? Like, what makes you think, oh, this person is depressed?

Mary 27:49
Yeah, well, those are, those are the main symptoms of a depressive episode. And there's periods of time that are that like coincide with those symptoms. So if you've had that, you know, the like, say, three out of the four symptoms for a period of two weeks, you know, then it might be like a, like a dysthymia. Or, you know, but if it's like 30 days, then you're probably in a major depressive episode. And I am pretty sure I'm right on the timing, I'd have to go back to my DSM, but I'm pretty sure that's what it

Scott Benner 28:25
is. Okay. How many people do you think, experienced this and don't realize it, and it's never an issue for them afterwards? Or does it persist? No matter? What,

Mary 28:38
it's such a good question. Um, there's so many variables to it, you know, like real clinical depression. I think that people know, and you know, I mean, some people just think, are can can live, I guess, and function. And like, you know, with the mood shifts, and it's, it's just normal for them. And they think that that's fine, if that's how they choose or don't, whatever. I mean, that's their choice. Okay.

Scott Benner 29:19
So, so sometimes, some people have it happened to them, and they can function with it, and then it passes. And then there are some people who fall deeper into it. Or break free of it, or I'm not sure how to put it actually, I'm not. That's why I'm asking.

Mary 29:37
You know, if, if left untreated. Yeah. I mean, it could it could go both ways. I mean, it could get worse. Or it could just pass like a major depressive episode without treatment. I mean, I don't I don't know if someone really just comes right out of that, right.

Scott Benner 30:01
And so it just it just kind of snowballs at that point.

Mary 30:05
Yeah. Or it'll, you know, like less than an intensity

Scott Benner 30:09
treatment can look like talk therapy. I don't know what what else would you like? What if you thought somebody was I don't know how they rank depression, but I think I've heard the words mild depression. So if you felt like somebody had mild depression, would you? I don't know, like, where did they start?

Mary 30:31
Um, I would definitely start with talk therapy, and do like education with the patient about it. And to really get a grasp and see, I want to look at family dynamics growing up, if there's been any, like significant traumas. And traumas can be big or small. And if there is an improvement with talk therapy, I'd refer from medication for a medication evaluation. To start to feel better, I see

Scott Benner 31:09
other people who take the medication for a time and then stop, or do they? Do they often have to stay with it?

Mary 31:16
I mean, you know, there's, there was just an article that came out recently about the use of SSRIs. And how they're really not that effective. I mean, a lot of people are on them for years. And years and years and have like, you know, some people have had complete life changes, and it's been wonderful, you know, and that's good for them. Some people go on and off it really? It really depends. But overall, I would say people I mean, everyone is so different.

Scott Benner 31:53
Yeah. Well, that's true. Okay, so this is all happened to you, right? The the kids diagnosed, you've gone through what you've gone through all of a sudden your husband's type two turns out is Lada. How have you and your husband been handling it? But between the two of you is have you had problems or? Oh, god?

Mary 32:16
Yeah, I mean. Yeah, I it's just, it's just sad. We are we've decided to separate you know, to, to get divorced. I'm sorry. I didn't No, no, it's okay. It's actually, you know, it's not a bad thing. You know, I guess I'm trying to, like change the script of, like, divorce being horrible and awful. We've really, like grown apart, we have very different, like, beliefs on just a lot of a lot of things, you know, there were some issues prior to diagnosis, and then diagnosis happened, and it just brought us like, further apart, you know, because we were like working on our marriage. You know, we're trying date nights, and we were in couples counseling and, and, and then once Jackson was diagnosed, like, I just struggled so much with leaving him with, like, a babysitter. In my, just, my whole focus was on him and like, learning diabetes, and making him you know, and also, like, being a certain way with him that this is a big deal, but you're still a kid, dude. So like, you're gonna eat that cake at the birthday party. And we're gonna figure it out, like, you know, a I'm not super strict with Jackson like that. And over time, obviously, I've learned, you know, better ways to manage it. And I just took it all on. And in that, Keith and I just, we just got further and further apart. It was it and

Scott Benner 34:26
tough to concentrate on more than one thing at a time. That was difficult.

Mary 34:32
Yeah, I mean, and I have another child that like, was also there. My kids are my world, you know, like I it was just all about this. We have to, like, adjust to this now. And like, I wanted everyone I wanted to, like, keep a sense of normalcy in the house. You know, we're like, it's just, you know, like with you With live like, No, it's okay. We just have to, you know, Jackson just getting his shot or like if his alarm would go off Lubich Jackson, your sugar, you know, like, and it, it's just okay. You know what I mean? Like, what am I trying to say? Like, I didn't want it to be this huge catastrophic thing that's happening in our family. I just like what we have died, like diabetes is in our family now. And like, this is how we deal with it.

Scott Benner 35:25
We're trying to downplay it. Just yeah. Yeah, just kind of minimize its impact on everybody.

Mary 35:31
And like normalize it, in a sense.

Scott Benner 35:34
Okay, so while that's all happening, and so I don't know, the I obviously don't know the elements of your marital strife prior to this. But this was not something that he could have continued to do while you were doing that thing. You guys just sort of drifted. Was he not part of the diabetes? Learning?

Mary 35:54
He was and the one of our strengths is when like, we're, there's a crisis, we work well together. You know, I'm more of like, a feelings person. And like, I just have this intuition and whatever.

Scott Benner 36:10
Mary, I lost you. I'm sorry. I lost you again, intuition. And then you be blanked out for a second.

Mary 36:17
Yeah, it's just like, you know, this intuition and whatnot. And, and he's more like, what, what are the facts? What could go wrong? You know, more from that type of standpoint. And when working together, that can really be a strength, you know, we've been able to overcome a lot of things that way. Right? Same with diabetes. By the way, I finally got him to listen to juicebox. Because I was like this, you know, I need help understanding and conceptualizing this, because it's just hard for me the way my brain works, you know, right. So two heads together, you know, we were able, like to both understand it.

Scott Benner 37:01
Gotcha. Oh, so together, you kind of pick through it and figured out the diabetes stuff. Yeah, that's right. And it helped him I would imagine, it probably helps him day to day with what he's doing now.

Mary 37:11
Yes, it does.

Scott Benner 37:15
All right. Well, I'm so sorry that that's happening for you. Do you think it's it's a it's a definite thing?

Mary 37:22
Yeah, I do. And I don't like I said it, I don't want. Keith and I, at the end of the day, we still like really like each other and we really care about, we're just like, not good. We're good together anymore. And it's not like a bad thing. I don't know how to really describe it without being like, did not like, descriptive, and I don't really want that. I was,

Scott Benner 37:52
like, as little or as much as you want. That's fine.

Mary 37:55
Yeah. I mean, it's we're just saying like, we're getting unmarried, you know, like we have we have a great relationship. We work better together like this.

Speaker 3 38:06
How do you? I'm sorry, being

Mary 38:11
rather than like, in a marriage, there's just a lot of for some reason, it just doesn't work as well as it does on a friendship level, if that makes sense.

Scott Benner 38:22
Okay, yeah. How do you imagine it working going forward? Will you live nearby each other or? Yeah, yeah. Mr. The kids will go back and forth.

Mary 38:32
Yep. I'll go back and forth.

Scott Benner 38:35
Okay. I'm just trying to figure out how and so and he understands as much about the diabetes as you do, and you guys work well together with its you don't think that'll be too much trouble with your son?

Mary 38:45
I don't, although we did start the Omnipod five. And he hasn't really like dove into that yet. So, but like, I don't have any doubt that like, he'll, he'll understand it and, you know, figure it out, if not better than what I've done so far. You know, like, we're good like that. Gotcha.

Scott Benner 39:11
Excellent. All right. Well, this is a bummer. But okay, Mary.

Mary 39:17
Congratulations are in order. We're good. It's good.

Scott Benner 39:22
I'll send up I'll send a gift.

Mary 39:24
Yeah, please. I mean, like, yeah, a housewarming gift. I mean, I already bought him a housewarming gift.

Scott Benner 39:31
Yeah. Oh, my gosh. All right. Okay, so how do you find managing Jackson's diabetes? Are you having the outcomes you're looking for? Are things going the way you expect? Are you still working on it?

Mary 39:44
I mean, it's always a work in progress. He's growing like a frickin weed. So there's a lot of that school you know, a lot of adjusting during school because they won't Pre-Bolus they're not comfortable doing that. Which is fine. You know, like, they obviously have other kids, they have to, you know, manage during the day. So

Scott Benner 40:16
are they not comfortable or they are, they don't want to be stuck to the timing of it.

Mary 40:22
I think it's both. Because again, they're coming from, like, get the pre meal sugar. See what he eats and calculate after.

Scott Benner 40:35
Okay? Premiums are, oh, that's how they're doing it. He's not even, it's not like he's getting the insulin and then eating, he's eating before the insulin.

Mary 40:43
He is. But the last year he had PE before lunch. So what was happening was after PE he, I mean, he'd drop and then eat eat. So it was like a really fine line of the insulin to give because he would still be like, coming down. So I mean, it just it took a while to kind of figure out what to do. I mean, if he was at like a certain number before gym, I'd I'd give him a little bump, you know, have them like, eat a couple of skittles or have like an honest juice, which is like eight carbs or something, you know, just to bump them up, because I knew he's gonna burn it right off and hold them steady through gym.

Scott Benner 41:34
And that was working. That worked. Yeah. What are your blood sugar goals?

Mary 41:39
I mean, it worked until it didn't, right. Blood sugar goals? I mean, I have my target my range 70 to 150.

Scott Benner 41:51
Are you making that most of the time?

Mary 41:57
On the on the five, I'm hitting it way better? On the dash? I mean, much. Not as much.

Scott Benner 42:12
Do you have stability? Or is there a lot of up and down?

Mary 42:17
You know, Scott, it really varies. There, I mean, there's some days, even weeks that he's super steady and great. And then there's other times where I mean, we're just on this roller coaster.

Scott Benner 42:33
And do you Pre-Bolus At home for meals. Yeah. And you see a better outcome then. Yeah, that's cool. Okay. I wonder if he has a lot of activity at school. That isn't helping him a little bit with the not Pre-Bolus thing.

Mary 42:50
Yeah, I mean, he is you know, he is very active. Because I mean, mac and cheese will you know, he eats with eats mac and cheese. Now, I don't even Pre-Bolus for mac and cheese. He could eat a huge bowl, and his sugar doesn't move until like an hour later.

Scott Benner 43:11
Right. But when it starts to digest, yeah, that he has it. I'm just I'm just I'm wondering how I mean what what a spikes look like at school when they're like literally bolusing after meals. To me that seems like a 250 blood sugar not Bolus until after a meal.

Mary 43:30
Oh, yeah. I mean, he or higher.

Scott Benner 43:33
Is there no way to get them to Bolus for half of it before he eats and then reassess? Well,

Mary 43:41
that's a good point.

Scott Benner 43:42
I mean, there's got to be a way to do that. But at least it's not. I mean, them saying we're not comfortable with it. It seems sort of like bold to me. Like Like, you're gonna drive the kids blood sugar up every day. And then we're just gonna manage it down again. Like every day.

Mary 43:58
Yeah. And some days he'll he would tank

Scott Benner 44:01
after they corrected. Yeah, yeah. Geez, that sucks. All right, you're using using the CGM? Yeah. And so you're able to see it during the day. So Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah, I don't know. Like, I would. I don't know. I'm not telling you. I really pressure them to do it differently. I would just say, look, you're you're creating an unhealthy situation for my son every day by doing it like this. So I mean, even he's on a I mean, he's on an algorithm now. Like you're you're also screwing with the algorithm like it because you're putting in food and not telling the algorithm that the foods there so it doesn't know what the thing because it just thinks that his blood sugar shoots up randomly and then wait, and then are they Oh, wait a minute, so your Bolus not bolusing. When he eats, he's going up 202 50 And then they're putting in the carbs. Yeah, that's why he's gonna get low later. Because the the algorithm thinks the carbs went in when you told it not an hour or 45 minutes prior. So, yeah. So it's both. So the algorithms going after the rise. Do you see what I'm saying? Like it sees, it sees a rise happened, he doesn't know why, because you haven't told it, there's carbs there. So it starts to jack up and push at the rise, trying to stop it thinking at first, though, it's just a small bump, I'm gonna come after it. And then as the rise gets more aggressive than the algorithm gets more aggressive, and now it's been aggressive for the entire time he's eating, and then you tell it, he's got carbs now. So you have insulin on board that it believes is for a rise that has nothing to do with carbs, and then it attacks the carbs that you put in. And that's why you're getting the low later. You have to tell it when you eat what you're eating.

Mary 45:56
Yeah, well, this was last year on the dash.

Scott Benner 46:00
So he was having an algorithm bumped from from that at least, okay, no, he was

Mary 46:05
on the dash. So the insulin would go in, like, as he was spiking up from lunch, and then we'd have to wait an hour. Before started coming down.

Scott Benner 46:19
Yeah, well,

Mary 46:21
you're coming up, right. He's, he's on the algorithm now. So this, you're coming up, like, you know, we have a meeting with the nurses. When I get back from Connecticut, and I have to figure out like, how, because we have to do it differently.

Scott Benner 46:37
Yeah, you have to impress upon them that this is not how this works. And because it will, it will confuse the hell out of the algorithm. If you Bolus 45 minutes after he eats and tell it that's when the food's going in. That'll really be a mess. Honestly.

Mary 46:53
Yeah. I mean, so what is it? So is it just the Pre-Bolus? Then, like, night before he eats, someone's gonna have to go to him or they were just walking him to the nurse last year? How

Scott Benner 47:05
old? Is he? Seven, eight. Do you think you guys can do it through text? Like you and hey,

Mary 47:15
maybe we we've been working on that. He just doesn't always remember to check his phone.

Scott Benner 47:22
Yeah, oh, no, you probably would have to text him. But, but I'm saying like, if you had a certain time of day, even if a timer went off on his phone, he was like, Okay, it's time to text my mom, I text her. Hey, we're getting ready to go to lunch. And you say, that's fine. You look at his blood sugar and tell him the Bolus a certain amount and he walks right to lunch with everybody else and starts to eat. Yeah, you know, that's how Arden did it forever. She would Bolus in the classroom before lunch. She would. Yeah. And we would do it by text. She never saw the nurse.

Mary 47:56
Yeah, I mean, it's such a disruption for him. How old was she when she started texting with

Unknown Speaker 48:03
you? Third grade.

Mary 48:06
Third grade, he's going into second but it's same age.

Scott Benner 48:10
Okay. Oh, he's older than I thought for that. Or am I? Yeah, we

Mary 48:13
he stayed. He was held back a year. And his younger, the younger grades. So

Scott Benner 48:18
I mean, if it's something I mean, all of the grade matters. I we started doing it when I thought of it. You know, like I didn't, I didn't have a podcast to listen to. So like I had to figure it out first. So I figured out what to do. When I figured it out. I figured out in the summertime between second and third grade. And so we put it into practice. Starting in third grade. Arden hasn't been to the nurse for a diabetes thing since the last day of second grade. Yeah, yeah. So but we did all through texting. But I don't know how I don't I don't see why this. I don't see why this wouldn't be okay.

Mary 48:52
Yeah, no, I mean, I guess. I like the idea of setting an alarm for him, because then he will. That's a good intervention for him to like a reminder. Yeah,

Scott Benner 49:05
that's what I did. I just, there was an alarm on her phone that it went off. It would be it would go off. She text me and say hey, what's up and then we would do lunch? Back then. Dexcom did not choose Hold on. When was that? 2000? I don't remember. There might not have been a Dexcom. Back then. Sorry. Is there a fire in the hotel? No. I'm not even sure if we had a Dexcom in the very beginning. So she would probably she would test her blood sugar. Tell me what her blood sugar was then we would Bolus and then in ensuing years, she told me what the CGM said because I couldn't see it. There was no share. And then And then, you know, as the technology improved and sharing came into, into being

Mary 49:55
did they Alright, so that they didn't have Have sharing back. Follow Jackson's number. Yeah, for

Scott Benner 50:06
years. We didn't have that. You know what that beeping is?

Unknown Speaker 50:11
Do you hear that? What the loud Bell?

Mary 50:16
Yeah, it's my text. It's my work texting.

Scott Benner 50:20
can you mute it? It's overwhelming you and you're talking. That's all.

Mary 50:26
Yeah, it should stop now.

Scott Benner 50:27
Okay, that's fine.

Mary 50:31
I'm so sorry Scott.

Scott Benner 50:48
Later when I'm editing this, I'm going to count the bells. And that's going to be the name of the episode like six bells or several miles or something like that.

Mary 50:57
Yeah, well, so I'm on this work text. And it's like 18 people are on the tags. And we have like the drug reps that come in every day, almost every day and bring lunch. So it's like lunchtime. And they're like, well, who's bringing in lunch today? What restaurant? Is it from?

Scott Benner 51:12
Goodness. Okay, yeah, no, so I'm sorry to go back. Yeah, the Dexcom share didn't always exist. So Sharon follow didn't always exist. There was a time where Arden had a Dexcom. And she's the only one that could see it. She had a receiver. It wasn't on her phone. And she used to wear it in this little pack around her waist. And it would, you know, she gets your blood sugar on it. And then she texts me and tell me what it was. And then we would do that. Prior to that she tested her blood sugar. She texts me the number and then we would Bolus off of that. So

Mary 51:45
yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna work on that with Jackson. I think that hill, I think he's totally capable of doing it. Practice. Extra reminder. Yeah, you can

Scott Benner 51:56
just practice at home, right? You can. You can just do meals from the other room say, Look, we're going to we're gonna Bolus your meal today. But we're going to do it over tax instead of standing next to each other. We're practicing for school. And yeah, you know, it's a viable way. And then you're there. Once you're done, you can go check and make sure everything happened the way you expect it. But if you're using Dexcom, and you can see his number on your phone, then you can you know, that that's a step. You don't have to worry about him getting the number wrong, because you can play it too. So I don't know, I would try something. I don't know. I just I'm not comfortable. It's not my kid and I'm not comfortable with what you told me. It makes me upset farm. So

Mary 52:34
yeah, I mean, it was the show last year with like, the ups and downs and the lows. And I mean, we never knew what we were gonna get every day. It's just

Scott Benner 52:43
it's not fair to him, either. He feels terrible. And you know, it's all over the place. So plus you don't he's not getting to be who he is. Because he's having these. You know, these bouncing around blood sugars are affecting, you know, his, his temperament. I would imagine everything else. Yeah. Are they back? Yeah, they're back. Okay. Well, we can wrap up if they're back. Is there anything that we didn't talk about? That you want?

Unknown Speaker 53:09
Jackson comes through. Hi.

Scott Benner 53:10
Hi. Hey, can you hear me? Yeah. Hey, Jackson. What's up, man? How was how was wiffleball? Good. Yeah. Excellent. Are you how loose? How long have you had the only about five months or so? Yeah. About a month. Are you liking it? Yes. Cool. That's very cool. I was talking to your mom about ways that you might be able to, to use it at school this year. So hopefully, it's something that'll work out for you. Yeah, yeah. How's your vacation? Going? Seeing your grandparents? Yeah, yeah, that's cool. That's very nice. And your uncle's there too? Yeah. Well, it was nice to meet you, Jackson. Thank you. Yeah.

Mary 53:55
Yeah, I was telling him about your whole story, buddy.

Scott Benner 54:01
I know most of it now.

Unknown Speaker 54:04
Do you say yeah, yeah. All right. Well,

Mary 54:08
we switch Minecraft.

Scott Benner 54:10
Minecraft. Oh, we like Yeah. That's a it's interesting because the way you described him Minecraft fits a little bit. Yeah, everything is square see? Yeah, he likes that. Yeah, it's interesting. It really is. Cool. All right. Well, Mary this will be too much noise for a podcast so let's say goodbye. But But I really appreciate you doing this. I thought it was terrific. And you obviously shared a lot of stuff and with everybody which will help everybody and I know

Mary 54:42
I'm so I feel like it was horrible. And like I was all over the place and I'm sorry how you feel? Yeah, I do. I do. I don't know why. I

Scott Benner 54:52
I don't questions. I don't think you were all over the place.

Mary 54:57
I don't know. I just I just feel like it. wasn't my best.

Unknown Speaker 55:03
I don't know. It's gonna sound so weird. But anyway,

Scott Benner 55:06
all right, well, Mary, that maybe I'll just name the episode something like bum Fuzzles or something like that. And I don't know too much noise. Yeah, they don't come out for like six months. So I'll go back and edit it and I'll figure out what's there. And that's how we'll go. All right. All right. I really do appreciate you taking time out Eva vacation. It was really nice.

Mary 55:27
Yeah, of course.

Unknown Speaker 55:28
Thank you so much. The best of luck to you. Thanks so much. Bye

Scott Benner 55:38
a huge thank you to one of today's sponsors, G voc glucagon. Find out more about Chivo Capo pen at G Vogue glucagon.com forward slash juicebox you spell that GVOKEGLUC AG o n.com. Forward slash juicebox. I'd also like to thank Omni pod they are a longtime sponsors of the podcast, I can't thank them enough for being with me since the very first year 2015 I just want to remind you to go to Omni pod.com forward slash juicebox to support them as they support the podcast. And I mean, all that means is if you're looking for an omni pod fiber and on the pod dash, use my link as promised, I will put the very noisy couple of minutes that Mary and I spent as I think she was in her car at the end here if you want to hear it it's kind of funny. What else thanks for listening I appreciate that very much. Please tell other people if you liked the podcast and think they would like it as well. And don't forget to find the private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes terrific group coming up on 40,000 members absolutely a great place to find your community

Unknown Speaker 57:02
Okay, how's that

Scott Benner 57:04
all I'm not sure if it's there's still a noise I'm trying to figure out if it's the air conditioner winding down or if it's just something different

Mary 57:17
I can always go to another spot

Scott Benner 57:21
I don't know is there noise outside of the car

Mary 57:25
not really mean there's like cars going by but it's not oh

Scott Benner 57:29
no this is pretty consistent I wish you could hear this but you can't Yeah, I don't know what to say that it is the first day

Mary 57:44
I can just kick my kids out oh that is

Scott Benner 57:49
I'm sorry Don't be sorry you're fine

yeah Mary it was the traffic Believe it or not okay because once you once you get out of the park

Mary 58:08
can you guys go play some wiffle ball? I can't there's like a bad background noise out there they

Scott Benner 58:17
did you get to them so quickly

Mary 58:24
No, not yet. We'll go play some wiffle ball with Uncle net Thanks

the bats next to the bed over there

Scott Benner 58:47
has got a problem I'm waiting to see what happens when you close the door yeah

Unknown Speaker 59:07
yeah thank you

Scott Benner 59:22
okay, is how's that? Terrible. No, I just wish you could have heard it. It was just so funny. Like it literally just sounded like jet planes were flying past you. That was the cars I assume. Yeah. Because once you opened the door to the, to the car to your car, I could tell that your car was keeping out a lot of the noise but just not enough of it. So

Mary 59:49
yeah, I have a pretty loud, loud car.

Scott Benner 59:54
It's one of those cars you get up on the highway and you're like, I'm just gonna turn the radio up and we'll all talk when we get there. Yeah, totally

Mary 1:00:00
or like, Get out of my way to

Scott Benner 1:00:05
this sounds good. Thank you. Okay, good. I appreciate it. Sorry about that. Although your kids sound young enough that you were able to relocate them without any argument. They were just like, we're going outside now. Okay.

Mary 1:00:18
Dude, I know I've had like a Plan B because I was like, I'm gonna, like do this in my car. And my brother's here, watching them and I'm like, I like the wiffle ball bat and the ball ready. And I was like, you know, there's a lawn right up there. You guys can just go and

Scott Benner 1:00:32
well, that's, well, it's very so you're on vacation.

Mary 1:00:35
Yeah, I'm originally from Connecticut. Like, I grew up in Trumbull, Connecticut. And my parents are still here. And one of my brothers is still here. So every summer I put, you know, put my two kids in the car and we drive up and spend about a week or two up here and get away from that Savannah summer heat. I

Scott Benner 1:00:58
was gonna say to escape the heat in Georgia, right?

Mary 1:01:02
Yeah, I mean, it's like, you know, in the winter up here, you're, you're like, you know, you get a blizzard or you can't it's just so cold. You can't go out well in the summer and Savannah, it's just so hot, you know?

Scott Benner 1:01:15
Well, I'm looking at our calendar right now. I call this my sadness countdown. And Arden is leaving for Savannah on the sixth. So yeah, 12344 and a half weeks from now isn't going to be super hot still by then. It is