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Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 883 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Today's guest is an adult female living with type one diabetes who wishes to remain anonymous. Her story starts with a parent who wrote a book about her diabetes and the impact that had on her. The conversation just goes on and on. I honestly think this might be the longest episode of the podcast I've ever recorded. I really hope you enjoy what comes next. While you're listening today. Please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan or becoming bold with insulin. Also, remember that if you have type one diabetes, or are the caregiver of someone with type one, and you're a US resident, that you can help type one diabetes research by simply filling out a survey at T one D exchange.org. You can get 35% off your entire order at cozy earth.com By using the offer code juicebox at checkout, and you can save 10% off your first month of therapy@betterhelp.com forward slash juicebox just by going to that link

this episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by U S med. You can get your diabetes supplies the same way we do from us med head over to us med.com forward slash juice box or call 88087211514 To get your free benefits check and to get started today. This show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries G voc hypo penne, find out more at G voc glucagon.com. Forward slash juice box. I'm going to start if you're ready. Yep, I'm ready. So we're going to start this one a little differently. today. My guest today wishes to remain anonymous because of some of the things we're going to talk about. So you're not going to hear her name. And that's pretty much it. So can you tell me a little bit about yourself?

Anonymous Female Speaker 2:25
Yeah, so um, let's see. I'm 33 I was diagnosed with type one diabetes when I was seven. So in November, I'm not sure what exact day so I just passed the what is that? 26 year anniversary. And I'm a therapist. That's my job as a mental health therapist. So that's been kind of fun through COVID doing a lot of stuff over zoom and telehealth. Yeah. And other than that, I'm here to kind of talk about, you know what it was like, for me growing up with diabeetus with, I don't know, I would say maybe some complicated family dynamics, and just kind of learning through my own therapy and stuff. What, how that has kind of affected me.

Scott Benner 3:15
Okay, you think this is gonna be an after dark episode?

Anonymous Female Speaker 3:18
Yeah, that's what we had originally talked about. But if if you feel like it doesn't have to be by the end, that's totally fine. It doesn't have to be

Scott Benner 3:25
I'd have to be it's however it goes. Well, you know, we can keep your name private. But you sound like the lead actor in any number of John Hughes movie. So I think we know about where you live in the country. But but that's okay. So let's let's pick through this a little bit. So you were diagnosed when you were seven? And you're a you're a therapist now? Yes. Okay. All right. So, do you remember anything about your diagnosis?

Anonymous Female Speaker 3:55
Yeah, I remember. Everything really. It's it's actually kind of weird. I feel like I have very few if any memories before my diagnosis. It's almost like that was maybe like a trauma tising part. I one thing I remember distinctly as we, we left, when when we left, I went to school, and I fainted during the pictures for picture day. That was what caused them to bring me and my parents to bring me and my dad brought me to an appointment. And anyways, that morning, I had left the house that I'd always lived in. We were building a new house. I learned that day had diabeetus and I never went back to that old house because the move into the new house happened while I was in the hospital. So like one thing that's weird is I really don't remember that old house. I don't remember what it looks like at all. And I lived there for for seven years. But I just feel Like there's there's not really many memories before that, but I feel like I remember things during the diagnosis and after pretty well.

Scott Benner 5:08
Yeah. So you kind of had a traumatic experience at the same time, that another experience, which I'm sure not traumatic, but still would have been impactful on a seven year old, like moving out of their lifelong home. And all that sort of just happens on top of each other. Yeah, that's interesting. Have you seen pictures of the first house?

Anonymous Female Speaker 5:27
Yeah, I've seen pictures. And we didn't move far away. So I definitely, like drove past we would drive past our old house, and I know I would be able to take you there. I know where it is. I just don't remember like the inside of it. My sisters, I have two older sisters, and just growing up, they would like tell stories. Remember, when we would, you know, do this in our room or in that basement? And I just, I just don't have any sort of memory of like the inside of that of that house? Which they always, you know, just can't believe? Well, no, it does feel weird.

Scott Benner 6:04
I know, I think you have me and everyone who's listening, walking through their family homes and where they've lived. Because I'm, I'm, I don't know. When I was a baby, I lived in an apartment with my parents that I only know existed because my my parents drove past and said, hey, when you were first born, we lived here. But I remember the second place we live But in fairness, they live with my grandmother for a little bit. And I that would have been a house that I kept going back to as I was older. So I don't think I remember being a child there. But I do remember the house. Where's the first place I remember being a child. It's the place we moved after we left my grandmother's house. So by then I would have been six or so. And it's interesting how I can't believe you brought this up. I got a message from a kid, kid. I'm 51. I got a message from a guy that I grew up with at that time. And that first house that I in that first place we lived kind of after my grandmother's house. And he just was saying hi. And we were talking back and forth. He's not a person I've kept up with. And I remember his name first and last his brother's name. All the guys we ran around with the girls that were around. I remember who my babysitter was. And I have the worst memory but that part of my life is stuck in my head in a different way. And it's interesting that you lost that spot. Oh, that's that's something else. Was it a traumatic? I mean, you passed out during photo day. But other than that, how was the diagnosis?

Anonymous Female Speaker 7:37
Um, yeah, it was so obviously looking back 2020 We know that there were other symptoms. I, I don't remember this. But I guess one morning I had come down. Like just in my underwear because I needed I couldn't find my clothes or shirt I was looking for for school. And I remember my mom was really, like, taken aback, because I was so thin. And so she tells me about that. I also remember that I wet the bed. And I obviously had not wet the bed for many years at that point. And I I also remember that I would just beg for for a drink. I was so thirsty. And I remember my mom would be like, you just had a big, like, adult glass of juice, you can't have anything else. You know, of course, she was giving me juice, which was making it worse, but we had no idea. And I do have one memory of like sitting in her lap. This is before the diagnosis probably just a few days. And I was just sobbing because I was I was begging her for like more liquid. And she was just like, Honey, you like you've drink so much. You can't, we're not going to have any more. And I just, I was so thirsty. Obviously looking back we now know, didn't know at the time. And so I think they were already like, I think there might have even been like an appointment scheduled. But then it was like later that week that I passed out during the class picture. And my dad came and picked me up and took me to the doctor. And then I remember us getting called back to their office. And I don't really remember the doctor telling us but I know we were told and then we were brought back out to the waiting room. And that was the only time I've seen my dad cry. And he it wasn't you know, like Audible but I just saw tears and I remember I asked him if I had eaten too much candy if I had made the cause this or made this happen.

Scott Benner 9:58
And that was that was 96 Straight 96 Yep. 1996. And still, as a seven year old, you somehow made this connection that you had diabetes. And it might be because you ate candy.

Anonymous Female Speaker 10:10
Yes. And I have absolutely no idea why I would have, you know, thought that. I'm just wondering if maybe the doctor when was when they were describing it to me as a young kid was saying that it was something that we're going to have to like, you know, be careful or be real aware of how much sugar I ate and wondering if they just said something like that when they were trying to explain it and let your mom if not, for me, I was like, Oh, well, did I eat too much sugar? Yeah, so but I don't remember the conversation really with the doctor. And then I remember, my dad, you know, called my mom. And that, again, he was crying. And then we went to the hospital, and I was in the hospital for a week. Because at that time, that was just what they did. They didn't, you know, send you home in the same day, or after a day or two. I was in the hospital and, you know, had diabetes educators come in, and I wasn't in DKA are anything so?

Scott Benner 11:14
Can you picture? Can you picture that hospital room in your head?

Anonymous Female Speaker 11:18
Yes, I can. Yes. And my dad stayed with me pretty much the whole week. They had like a cot brought up. So I remember we watch movies together. And there were parts of it. You know, that was kind of kind of fun. I remember the nurses letting me like run up and down the hallway a few times. Because I was just like, you know, wanting to run around and be a kid. Yeah. And I remember them kind of giving me permission and giggling and watching me just run up and down the hallway a few times during that week.

Scott Benner 11:53
So do you have any other type one or autoimmune issues in your family?

Anonymous Female Speaker 12:01
Um, my grandma's sister had type one. But that is it. No, no other autoimmune disorders that I am aware of or that anyone else is aware of. I'm wondering if, like, if I might have other autoimmune disorders. I've been having some health stuff that we're trying to figure out. But so far, we don't know.

Scott Benner 12:27
What are. What are some of your symptoms?

Anonymous Female Speaker 12:31
Oh, geez. Well, the main thing right now is just like it like tons and tons of joint pain. It probably started about two years ago where it was just, you know, a couple joints. And it's really progressed over the last year where I really have pain in all of my joints. So I know we're talking about like, doing tests for rheumatoid arthritis. Yep. And that's yeah, that's something I've struggled with. It wasn't always joint A lot of times it was just muscle but I've wondered do other diabetics struggle with like being and just in body pain like I feel like for a 33 year old My body hurts more than it should

Scott Benner 13:16
ever have the feeling do you ever had the feeling that your bones hurt

Anonymous Female Speaker 13:21
um, no not my bones but but definitely the joints just the joint you know? Yep. But no not not in the middle are really in between

Scott Benner 13:32
I mean, it's a simple blood test for them to look for the markers and any Yeah, yeah rheumatologist it's an they'll bring it into the office they have you do like a couple of like It's like walking tests and bending their stuff they're looking for that they see it pretty easily. And then the blood tests of course should help as well although there are people who have it who don't who don't test positive for some of those things

Anonymous Female Speaker 13:57
in the blood. Yeah, so there I am calling back today because I know that a referral was put in for me to see a rheumatologist so that's what I'm going to go do. So we haven't run the tests yet. The other thing is and I if you look I guess this up on the internet, they're not sure if this is auto immune. So I guess this would be the only other possible family autoimmune disorder. My dad earlier this year my dad was always very athletic still is and he refs and pyres and is running around all the time. And probably about a year ago, he started to have just horrible horrible joint pain and kind of similar to mine it was like all of it didn't happen one joint and then another like they all started hurting at the same time, which is just not really how arthritis usually presents. And he went to doctor after doctor after doctor and they kept telling him like, you know you're fine. You're just getting older. We'll be fine. finally met with a I think it was a neurologist and he was diagnosed with poly mile Malaysia rheumatica. And so that's another thing that, that they want me to, you know, be tested for, because he has had that. And the good thing about that as it is, you know, somewhat I don't know, if it's curable, it can always kind of flare up again. But they just put you on a low dose steroid for like three months, and then we knew off and within like two days of being on a steroid, all of his pain was gone. And prior to that, like, there were days when like, my mom needed to put on his socks, he couldn't bend, and that's just so unlike him. So I don't I'm not sure exactly what's going on, but something is going on. But I have an appointment here in a couple of weeks off

Scott Benner 15:50
poly Malaysia rheumatica inflammatory disorder that causes muscle pain and stiffness, especially in the shoulders and hips, signs and symptoms usually begin quickly and are worse in the morning. Most people who develop it are older than 65 rarely affects people under 50. Yep. So

Anonymous Female Speaker 16:09
yeah, so that that was the one thing that I when I saw my dad for Thanksgiving, and, you know, he saw me and he just said, like, oh, sorry, I just gave away my own name. I'll bleep it out. But that's okay. But he, he said it. I can see. I mean, sometimes when I'm walking when I get up, like I just I look like an eight year old person. I'm like, very visibly limping. And he just said, I, I really think that you have what I had. And we kind of looked and I saw the age but yeah, I don't know what it is. wish to see.

Scott Benner 16:45
I wish you luck because it's obviously no fun. I do know, if you listen to the show, Jenny has Ra. And she Yeah, she manages it pretty well, with specific diet, and exercise and stuff like that. So we actually just talked about it in a recent episode. There's a how we eat episode. That's called how Jenny eats. So okay, it's in there.

Anonymous Female Speaker 17:08
Well, I'll have to listen to I do. Listen, I've listened to a ton, although I will look like right now. I'm a few months behind. I didn't listen for a while. But so I love Jenny. And I know, but I didn't know she had rheumatoid arthritis. So that's, that's good to know. Especially if I do end up getting that diagnosis that

Scott Benner 17:28
yeah, she'd be a good person to reach out to. Okay, well. So you're diagnosed, you're young. And I guess we want to get to your story. Obviously, people are like, yeah, why don't you start with that, Scott. But that's just how I like to do this. So were there problems as a child, was it smooth sailing? And then it hit a speed bump? Like, what was your progression? Like, from seventh through like high school?

Anonymous Female Speaker 17:55
Yeah, um, I guess I would say that there were problems. But I don't know that I knew it, or anyone would have known it at the time. I think that was what was kind of confusing. My dad is a writer. And so he ended up writing a couple books, but writing in public publishing a couple books for kids and people when they are diagnosed. And I was a part of that the first book, he had me like, illustrate and then we, I wouldn't call it I don't, it wasn't like an official position. But I was almost kind of like a spokesperson for JDRF in our area, I would give tons of speeches and go around at hospitals and give out the books and talk to kids. And I was on the news a couple of times for it. And so I feel like I was always thought of or people would have thought like this is like the poster child and family for like living well with type one. And it has taken me into my adulthood to really figure out how alone I felt in it and how much responsibility I was put in right away and just kind of what affects that hat. I definitely am someone who tends toward the side of being like more anxious or like perfectionistic. And so I don't think that people would have known but just processing and knowing stuff and realizing how hard it is for me to ask for help or let anyone in on the diabeetus now is just I've had to kind of process where that started and why and I think that started right away. What one thing that was always just talked about as like kind of a badge of honor. I remember my I can hear my mom particularly saying it to everyone, you know, my teachers, people at church. Just everyone how, you know, independent I was. One thing that is, like distinct about me, I guess is I was diagnosed when I was seven. But I instantly I always gave myself my own shots and tested my own blood sugar. And my mom would kind of tell everyone that and how amazing it is that, you know, I wanted to and always, always gave my own shots. And I think as a kid, I didn't know what to think of that. What I know now is I just know I had to give my own shots because of stuff that was because of our family situation. There wasn't always going to be someone there for me to depend on. And so I think I just knew that I had to do it. I have stepkids now. And as as they have, you know, come to age seven, one is older and one's younger, I just realized I would be looking at them and thinking that they would never choose, or maybe even be able to like give themselves their own shots. But I had to because my mom was not very involved at all. She was a teacher, my dad struggled. He was a writer, and then and he was doing quite well. But then the recession kind of hit and pretty much after that he struggled to have like a consistent job or consistent income. And so my mom was working a lot. And my dad was an alcoholic. He didn't drink daily, I would say he was, I don't know, I'm putting this in air quotes, but like a functional alcoholic. Meaning that he just, he, when he drank, he drank way too much. And he would, you know, get kind of belligerent, he would be passed out. And like I said, he didn't drink every day. But he he drank a fair amount like it, at the very least every Sunday, you know, was golfing or football and he would be, you know, passed out. And so I think I knew that. Even though my dad was the one who was by far the most there for me. I knew that he wasn't always going to be there. Right. And I think I knew that I had to be able to step in and not ask not at need to ask for help.

Scott Benner 22:55
Do you have a lot of the classic like, child have alcoholic problems?

Anonymous Female Speaker 23:03
Ah, yeah. Yes, I think so.

Scott Benner 23:07
Can you as a therapist, tell me which ones you recognize in yourself?

Anonymous Female Speaker 23:13
Oh, geez, I would probably have to pull up the list I want to go through like, clinically, but I mean, I know that I feel like that I am a helper that I like caretake you know, very, very independent. very, like, afraid of doing something wrong. I really, I obvious I don't like being around people who are really drunk. Especially anyone, like who is kind of an angry drinker, because that was definitely my dad. So yeah, I guess that that

Scott Benner 24:03
hyper vigilance thing, where you just, you feel like something's always about to happen. And that's where that feeling of, I can't count on you comes from. And then it's worse if, if he's the one you're counting on. Yeah, because your mom's off working. She's covering for him in a different way. And, and so and now you have to be the one and then on top of that, there. So their behavior forces you into doing something that a child shouldn't have to do. And then you're celebrated for it on the other side. So it's Yeah, and yeah, it's confusing in two different directions.

Anonymous Female Speaker 24:41
Yeah, and you know, Scott, one of the things that I I find the weirdest and again like I I have done you know, my own work the end there, I think there's always more work to be done. So I'm not saying it I'm, you know, overall of it, but like I have talked a little bit With my parents about this, but not, not a whole ton directly, and I don't know that I ever will, I don't, I don't know that I need to do that to like, heal. And I just, I don't know, I don't want to make them feel bad. That would be that would be an alcoholic kid tendency right there. Like, I'll just work through it on my own, I don't want to make them feel bad. But one of the weirdest things that I've kind of realized in adulthood, you know, of course, I was very kind of enmeshed with that whole like book writing process. I remember even pushing back against that at times, because it felt like my diabeetus like, my, my dad would, you know, just talk about it all the time, and like, send me articles about it. And I just remember, I would say, like, I'm not my diabeetus. Like, I don't care. I don't need to be reading articles and diabetes books and doing all of this stuff all the time. You know, I'm already doing these, like book signings. And there's just there's enough, but I don't I don't want to do more of that. Right? Yeah. Well, so then, when I went off to college, and I mean, there were several years of break of like, not, you know, seeing the books or doing anything with them. And as an adult, one day, I went through and read them. And this was after I had gone to therapy. And I realized that some of like, what I would say were kind of traumatic than maybe neglect, full medical, neglectful situations were written in the book. Like they're not, clearly they aren't things that my dad thought were not. Okay, because he tells the stories of them as kind in kind of a comedic way. In the book, and I just remember the first time reading and thinking, Oh, my God, I forgot. I thought forgot that was in here. And just, you know, I feel like this used to be something that everyone said how great they were and what we're proud and maybe people do find them. But me feeling I'm like, great. We're telling these stories that are like, really painful.

Scott Benner 27:20
Do you have an example of one of them? Like one that sticks out? Yeah.

Anonymous Female Speaker 27:24
Oh, yeah. Well, okay. So the other thing is, is my so my dad stopped drinking, because my mom, I remember, we essentially had like an intervention. And my mom had told him, like, if you don't stop drinking, we're gonna leave, I'm going to take the girls and we're going to leave. And I remember my dad left for one night, and I got I think I was about 10. And I was just sobbing and begging him to stay. And I think part of that too, was because my again, my mom really knew nothing. Like, there were times where, where I think if my mom wouldn't necessarily know, like, if my blood sugar was low, would that mean that I needed insulin? Or would I meet need food? She would know that I needed one of those two things. But I don't know, I think I'd have to kind of take the lead on which one, right? And so I don't know how much of that was tied into it. And how much of it is just you a kid doesn't want their parents to leave? Right? So he but he came back and he stopped drinking. He didn't. He didn't drink at all, from the time I was maybe about 10 Until I grew, you know, I left the house. But he also didn't do any sort of treatment or any sort of therapy. Okay, came from from an abusive household. And so, I would, I would say that he was he exhibited a lot of the behaviors of like a dry drunk. And the biggest thing is just anger. If I look back at his dad, like, my dad broke, so many of the cycles, you know, he was at never physically abusive. While there were absolutely times he was verbally abusive, he wasn't always verbally abusive. He could also be, you know, maybe 80% of the time, he was a wonderful, gentle, loving dad, but he just had anger issues. And so what I also remember is that after he stopped drinking, like, you would think, well, maybe I could lean on him more, but he would get so mad if something went wrong. And yeah, there were a couple stories like one time I came home, from movies with my friends. I think I was maybe like, 12 and I tested my blood sugar and I had, you know, Ben mindful of what I ate. This was back in the day of like, shots and regular insulin and all that stuff. And my blood sugar was maybe like 350 And my dad just flipped To out and was Scrooge just yelling at me? Like, why did I do that? Don't I care? I don't remember, I just remember him yelling to the point where I, like ran out of the house. And I locked myself in the van in the family car, and I was just crying. And he eventually came out and apologized and, you know, said that he was just afraid. I think that was the only time he ever apologized. But that story is in the book.

Scott Benner 30:36
Do you have the feeling that his upbringing was such a show? That even if he were to drag himself 80% out of it, he's still going to be the dad you got? Is that kind of the idea? Like, it's just yeah,

Anonymous Female Speaker 30:54
I think I think if he ever did any therapy, it could have been better, but I don't. I mean, I first of all, no one is perfect. We all have our stuff, you know, so I wouldn't expect but I do think that, you know, had he done some therapy around his childhood. I guess it would be my hope that hit that anger would be better.

Scott Benner 31:22
Do you real quick, do you have that feeling because of of things he thinks that he showed that made you think that he was right on the precipice, but just didn't know how to get over the hump? Does that make sense? I think

Anonymous Female Speaker 31:40
so meaning like, on the precipice of being able to even like conquer that or show. Like, what you mean, like

Scott Benner 31:47
he sees, he sees the issue, and he wants the other side of it, but he just doesn't have the tools to get on the other side of it. Is that how you feel? Oh, yes, yeah,

Anonymous Female Speaker 31:55
yeah. 100%. And it was definitely like, a huge topic. His dad was a big topic. And he lived, you know, close to us. He was actually he was like a wonderful grandpa. But he was a horribly abusive dad and husband, it was weird. It was in congruence, like he couldn't have been sweeter and more like loving and supportive as a grandparent, and then I would hear him in the other room, just screaming and swearing at my grandma and, or my dad. And so, he would always talk about how much he didn't want to, you know, be like his dad, and how and like, he did break the cycle. As far as like, he is not abusive, towards my mom. You know, my grandpa was physically abusive, verbally, emotionally, everything. And like I said, my, my dad was, I would say, verbally abusive to everyone in his life when he was angry. Which I would say happened more for sure than like the average person. And it wasn't daily either. The the other story that is probably what more it certainly brings up more emotions for me than the other example I gave was, you know, when I was doing my own shots, I don't even know if you would know what this is do. Do you know what I'm referring to when I say that I had an injector

Scott Benner 33:21
injector? I might not know.

Anonymous Female Speaker 33:26
Okay, I don't even know to let me Google and see if like, what does anything even close to it come up? Well, kind of not it does show a syringe. So okay, before pumps were a thing. And when I was diagnosed, and their pens were not really a thing yet, either. There were these big pieces, it was like I don't I literally don't know how to describe it, it was a big piece of plastic that you essentially loaded the syringe in, you pulled like a trigger back. And then you would, you know, just put it against your skin and push the button. And it would go in super fast. And it would, you know, press the plunger to inject the insulin for you. When I first got diagnosed, I just did the shots totally manually. When we found the injector That was wonderful because I remember it allowed me to like reach spots that I couldn't, you know, get all the way back with with just handling the syringe, you know, I could do all of the loading and stuff in front and then reach back and you know, just have to push a button and I could give myself a shot in the butt where I couldn't do that with just a syringe. Okay. So anyways, my I was that so this would have been before the age of 10 because 10 is when I got on the pump. And so I just that's to keep in mind for how I was we had a little dog. And, you know, again, I'm doing all my own shots, I don't really even remember I'm very good at math. And I think that was possibly started because of the diabeetus. Because I don't really think they helped me figure out my dosages either. Like, I really remember doing my own shots and drawing it up. And I do not have any memories of like my parents doing that and handing it to me, it was very independent. And anyways, on one of these times, I didn't put the injector away, and our dog chewed it up. And I was supposed to go to my grandpa, my grandma and grandpa's house that night for a sleepover, which I just was looking forward to so much. And when my dad saw that the injector was chewed up, he, you know, went into one of just his, like yelling, fits. And he said that he would I couldn't go because now, you know, I couldn't give my own shots, which doesn't entirely make sense, because I did them prior to the injector, but I did like the injector, and you wouldn't buy me a new one,

Scott Benner 36:12
you get punished, right? Yep. He

Anonymous Female Speaker 36:15
said, like, this is your fault, you are responsible. You know, again, now using my own kids as an example. It's like, I would never be expecting my eight or nine year old to take out their medicine, do it and put it away every single time four times a day. But that was kind of the expectation. And anyways, I was sobbing. He said, I couldn't go. He said he wouldn't buy me a new one. And he made me call my grandpa and tell him why. So I did. And what I do remember is about an hour later, my grandpa showed up to the door. Sorry, with an injector. And so he went and bought one. And I just remember kind of feeling like he had, you know, saved me in that moment. And that story is in the book. Yeah. Well, so to three again, just not in a way that feels like he thought I wish I wouldn't have done that. Yeah, that was

Scott Benner 37:12
probably he's probably proud of himself for teaching you a lesson. You know what I mean? He's probably like, Oh, she did the wrong thing. And I fixed her. Like, it's such an odd. It's only it's not that long ago, right. 1996 does not seem like that long ago. But Arden called me from college. She was there for like two weeks. And she goes, Hey, I broke my phone. And she's never Arden's had an iPhone since she was five. Okay, because, because the diabetes, and she's never broken one. And so I was like, Oh, what happened? She was I fell out of the bus, which by the way, if she ever comes back on the show, you have everyone needs to hear the story of Arden falling out of the bus. But she goes, and I didn't even let her finish. I'm like, are you okay? And she goes, yeah, and she starts to like, scrape my leg and blah, blah. And it was embarrassing. And like that kind of stuff. We're talking about it. And listen, I mean, I'm not. I don't I don't think anybody's in the position to just willy nilly buy an iPhone. They're freaking expensive. But I just was like, it's I'm like, That's okay. Don't worry about that. I was like, just take it back to the dorm was the glass in the back. I was like, just take scotch tape and just, you know, cover the back, put your case back on and we'll figure it out when you get home. It never occurred to me to be like, well, you have to come home from college now. Like, it's it's just, it's a generational? Like, I really think that that last group of people that grew up in the 50s, like, I don't even know, I haven't done the math. But Did your dad were his formative years, like in the 40s or the 50s?

Anonymous Female Speaker 38:45
Um, he was, let's see, I think he was born in 53. So like, I don't know if a formative but certainly Yeah, he was, you know, where he was raised. He was raised

Scott Benner 38:56
by people who lived through that time and like that whole thing. Yeah, really. Can I say something? That's gonna sound crazy. This is not about your dad. Yeah, we got one more generation of people to get rid of and then I think we're going to take a leap I seriously I'm sorry to say it like that. I think we're going to take a leap forward because of because we now have a couple generations of people who did not grow up in in that space where everything was like we're all broke and we don't have any money and there's nothing that's ever good gonna happen and like like we need we need those people who grew up like listen it'll probably trend the wrong way, it 50 years from now probably nobody will be able to take care of themselves because yeah, not one person left who remembers you know, fight and Jerry but but the point where that's a reference that only older people are gonna get, but But it's um there's there's got to be a middle ground that I know we don't find it a society we usually swing back and forth pretty greatly but, but there is time during the swing, where you get people Like you, right? Or, or even, you know, me who grew up not well, and but recognize that and and then was lucky enough to meet a woman who like when my stuff would happen, like when the things that my dad would say would come out of my mouth, my wife would be like, yo, hey, listen to yourself. You don't feel that way. What are you saying? And then, and then I could recognize like, oh, yeah, like, my dad would yell about this. And it took me it took me time to, like, I'm not gonna lie to you, like, it's hard to break free of, but we're gonna get into a generation of people who don't have as much to break free from, and then more kids are going to break their injector or fall out of a bus. And the response is going to be Oh, are you okay? Not? Yeah, you, you bastard. Like, you've ruined everything you don't? I mean, like, yeah, because your dad didn't even think that. And you know, the way I know that is because your grandfather, who you described as, you know, your dad, plus gang is con, like, like he showed up. And he was he knew he knew what happened. He knew what he did to your father, and he knew what your father was going to do to you. And he showed up with that injector to put a stop to it. Don't you think that's what happened?

Anonymous Female Speaker 41:17
Um, I've never thought of it that way. I guess I hope that's what happened. It's hard to know, because he was, I mean, until, until he died, he was very abusive. So he certainly never broke that cycle with my dad. So there's app that doesn't mean he didn't know he might have known and just not been able to stop it. Like, my dad went over and took care of him, you know, every single day for the last several years of his life. And he would, you know, just absolutely, you know, yell throw things. He was just a really a really tough guy to his people he loved the most or what's closest to, and somehow he turned that off for the grandkids and his daughters in law. daughter in law's Interesting. Yeah, he was like, kind of a different person, but you would, we would see the other person, like he would, you know, be in the same room. And he would just either be screaming and swearing at his wife or kids, or be very sweet and gentle to his grandkids or sons, wives.

Scott Benner 42:36
Depression, you think they're depressed.

Anonymous Female Speaker 42:40
Um, I know, my dad is depressed. I remember, I always that was another fear I had, I had a fear that he would like hurt himself. He has pretty caustic sense of humor. He's, he's hilarious. Like, if you talk to people, they would all put on top of the list that he was funny. But probably not the most appropriate humor all the time. And I do remember what he would joke a lot about, like, committing suicide. And I think for me, as a kid, I didn't, you know, always take that as a joke. And I remember being afraid because he was, he worked out of the home, and so well, like in the home, but I've never understood why that was the term. That was confusing me, but he had an office in our house. And I remember I would be walking home from Boston and be very anxious that I hope dad's Okay, when I Oh, wow. Get home. Yeah,

Scott Benner 43:43
she's and you are anxious to so on top of that, yeah. So he he's making over the top jokes about his own demise. And then you're spending the day thinking guy Oh, this guy doesn't kill himself. Because Because he's the only person I can count on and I can't even count on it. Oh, it's just very interesting. So I have one more question before we move into how this all this. What this did you as an adult? So here's my last question. Catholic.

Anonymous Female Speaker 44:12
No. Lutheran well, so my dad was, I think I guess it probably would have been Catholic because he went to a private school with nuns. And he was completely not religious because of that. He was also kind of abused in that setting. He so he just absolutely kind of hated organized religion after like going to school and having corporal punishment and just really pretty awful stuff from the nuns teachers at the school so he, I guess, he propped that must have been a Catholic school, right? If it was nuns. My mom was Lutheran and my mom is continues to be and took us to church. My dad never went with us. And I'm no longer religious. But yeah, I was raised going to church pretty often as a kid, just that that was just my mom and sisters, my dad didn't attend. Hey, listen, you didn't believe when I was

Scott Benner 45:17
in the fourth grade, I had a teacher. I remember his name. He's got to be dead. His last name was so gola is a prick. And, and if you weren't paying attention to his class, or he didn't like what you were doing, he would sneak up on you with a yardstick and smash it across your desk. And he wouldn't hit you. I was in public school, by the way. So if I'm in fourth grade, let's do the math. I was born in 71, I would have been well like seven in fourth grade. So it was like it was the late 70s. And for people aged who don't know what a yardstick is, it's a measuring device about three feet long, made out of wood. And even if you still have one today, if you pick one up at the Home Depot or Lowe's, they're almost like they're a joke. They're like, Presswood. And but when I was a kid, they were a thick, solid piece of laminated, or lacquered wood, like it was the thing. Yeah. And it was frightening, because sometimes you'd see him coming. And you'll be like, Oh, God, is this for me? You know what I mean? And he would never get anybody. But that was public school. You weren't allowed to hit people. But he was still, basically, he was intimidating. Like, I look back on it now. And yeah, it was intimidation, it left you with the feeling like it could get upside down. And he might hit a mother. You know what I mean? Like like it. And that's the vibe you lived in. And I'll tell you what, he was the guy I couldn't if I've told the story before on the show, where I don't I didn't know my multiplication tables, until I was much older than I should have been. And it started with him. Like I could not learn in his presence at all.

Anonymous Female Speaker 46:57
No, it Yeah, it's that whole idea. Like when you're in like fight, flight freeze, when we're in that mode, you aren't learning, like the only information you're taking in is like, how do I stay safe right now, you know, how do I not become get on the other side of that, that yardstick? And yeah, it doesn't. It doesn't take you to actually be hit if there's the fear that you could be. And that was a little bit, you know, that would be there with my dad just because he would like I said he was never physically abusive, but he would throw stuff, or sometimes. I don't know if it was break. I guess I don't. Yeah, yes. Like I remember one time he found my sister had I think it was the kid was at the Kid Rock CD, that on the CD was just like a middle finger pointing up. And he had he had told her like to turn her music down. And I think she wasn't even supposed to have that CD, it might have been her friends. And she had it up super loud. It was horribly graphic. And he came in and I, I remember, he was yelling, and he turned it off. And I maybe I was in there with her because I can remember it. I saw him and he just held the CD up like over his head, and he just crunched it in his hand and shattered it. And so I remember that to that. Like, I never my dad never hit me. But there was there was just that fear that you there was posturing? You know, the way that that his body would be? And even just how kind of how out of control the yelling and things were. You were just never 100%? Sure. And it's easy to take a chance. Yeah.

Scott Benner 48:44
And it's easy to put it on the individual. But the truth is, is that that teacher reminded me and my father, and my father felt comfortable hitting me because I guess in his mind, oh, he owns me. So it's just it's that's what I was saying earlier. It's it's it's a slice of time. And by the way, if we go back 500 years, this would these stories would be the equivalent of like my story about falling out of the bus, I'd be like, Oh, look how far we've come. You know. So life is human beings are, are at their core, aggressive, violent things, right. And we've been teaching ourselves for 1000s and 1000s, and more years to walk away from that. And it's easy to be born in this time. And say like, this is what the world is, but this isn't what the world is. This is what the world's become. And you have no you know, when you're born and you become, you know, aware of your surroundings as you get older. You just think this is how the world has always been. And the truth is, it's not always been like this and it might not always be like this, it might change for the better. It might it could ebb for 50 years and get worse and then come Back again, like you don't have context for the big picture, the real, real big picture. And so it's like, I feel like, as much as we're talking about your father and his grandfather, we're just talking about society at that time. Really?

Anonymous Female Speaker 50:17
Oh, yeah. And just, it just follows the parent, like paradigm shifts, you know, throughout. And my goal is always just like to do, to kind of see, you know, maybe your parents or your your upbringing, clearly, and then improve a little bit, you know, it's an inch an inch better, which I think he absolutely did from his parents. And if I can, you know, be an inch better with my kids, which I, I think that I am certainly tried to be, then I think that that's, that's kind of all we can do. That's, that's our best as humans. Yeah, that's my goal.

Scott Benner 51:01
Well, you know, the, the, the Flynn effect, the idea that, um, people's IQs have been increasing over time, and the IQs increase over time, even in that situation, when you find yourself in a social situation. And you think, God, that person's not figuring this out, or, you know, my neighbors kind of like, seems dumb sometimes or whatever, like, those people may just be two generations behind you on this, on this path to human beings becoming more intelligent as we as we develop. And it's not like your, your neighbor's not dumb. They're not they're not at fault. Like they didn't do anything wrong. They literally just may have been to generational cycles, where they got unlucky and some dopey people made some babies together. Like, you know what I mean? Like, it's, it's not, it's no one's fault. Yeah, and it's just, it's what it is. It doesn't excuse it, if your neighbor, if your neighbor set your fence on fire, right, like you can, you still shouldn't, would be upset. But as a thinking person, if my if my dopey neighbor set my fence on fire, my first thought would be put the fire out. My second thought would be well, this doesn't surprise me. You know, now, if my neighbor on the other side did it, I think, well, that must have been on purpose, because that's a bright guy, he couldn't set his fence on fire by, you know, on by mistake. And that's the same thing with this, with this parenting stuff. And I only have context for it. Because I grew up with a guy who was like, you know, listen, or else, it doesn't matter if I'm making sense. It doesn't matter if you want to do it. Or if I'm saying the right thing, we're going to do what I say. And if we get to the point where that falls apart, I will yell at you or hit you until you fall in line. And I'm assuming that's how he was raised. And he was probably bet because I know my dad at his core. He was a sweet guy. You know, but this person that I, I told you that I talked to, from my from my past. In this short back and forth, we had he said, You know, when we were kids, I was scared of your father. And I thought, Oh, that's interesting. Like, how would he know? You know, they mean, like, he wasn't in my house. Like I was scared of my dad. But why would other people have been? And I thought, Oh, and you brought it up and you made me think of it? Because he's projecting. He's projecting himself to be scary. He wants people to cower around him. I don't know why I don't have time to figure it all out,. But that's the truth. And now we're a couple of generations behind. So okay, I'm so sorry. This is really interesting. Do you have more time then we booked? I apologize. Yeah. Yeah. Great. Great. So how did all How did this disaster impact you and your diabetes? When you have diabetes and use insulin, low blood sugar can happen when you don't expect it. 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Anonymous Female Speaker 57:10
Well, I think I've had like chapters. Um, you know, when I was when I was really young, I remember just you know, feeling like you have to manage this on your own. I definitely remember like sneaking downstairs, I did not feel well. I knew something was off. And I would sneak my insulin and meter upstairs. And I'd see 450 And I'd be like, oh god and I'd kind of guests and take a shot. And I I knew no one knew that I was taking a shot. So there wasn't going to be anyone to check if I took too much or not. And I really just have to look back at myself there and have a lot of compassion for what that would have been like for me as a kid because I knew what could happen. You know, I knew that it could that I could die. But I didn't. My dad's knowing that it was 450 and yelling was was scarier, I guess. Yeah, yeah. Point it because you're thinking,

Scott Benner 58:06
Well, I'm sorry, your blood sugar is the injector. Like you broke it. You did it wrong. You're gonna get oh, yeah, right. It's coming for you. Right, right. I'm sorry. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Anonymous Female Speaker 58:17
So I think during those years, my blood sugar's were, you know, as okay as they could be on shots with older insulins and with a, you know, 789 10 year old making the majority of the decisions. I think, you know, my A onesies were sevens, eights. And then I would say, I was probably really burned out in high school, high school in college, I would go a long time without testing my blood sugar. I think sometimes I would maybe test my blood sugar, like twice a week. Honestly. I took insulin, I didn't not. I didn't not take insulin. And I guess I was just kind of guessing by highest day one C ever. I'll never forget it. And that was in high school. Because, you know, this was also the time when they couldn't like download meters. Like you had to write everything down, right? And my, my dad would say, like two weeks before my endo appointment here, like right, go through and write all your sugars down. And I would act like I was going through the memory on my machine. But there wasn't anything in the memory on my machine. So I was just like making them up. And of course, I'd put in some highs I put it in some lows, like trying to make it you know, again, here's the here's the perfectionistic part of me. So most of the numbers were pretty good. And I went to the doctor and I met and I really liked my pediatrician and he said like, I don't have any changes. It looks great. I think I was maybe like 14 at this time and then I got a call The next day from him, the doctor and he said, so your numbers make no sense with your a one C and I was my highest, say one C that I've ever had, I think it was like a 9.8. And he said, like, I don't believe those were your numbers like, Why? Why are you lying? And I said that I wasn't, that was another thing like, oh, lying in my house if you lied, and that kind of also meant just not having boundaries. You know, there are things that I now feel like that's not a lie, that's just a, that's just an okay boundary to have that I don't need to tell you that. But so I remember, like crying on the phone and saying that, you know, why they didn't match is because I really only started to test my blood sugar before my appointment, and that I was being really bad at like managing it. And he said, You know, I'm not going to tell your parents this time, but you need to know that if this happens again, I will have to talk to them. And you need to make these like changes. And like, you know, this is your health. And so, again, I think I stepped it up a little but not a lot. It was just kind of don't die. I also developed an eating disorder in high school, so and I had a best friend who I met at diabetes camp who just happened to be in my town. We hadn't known each other before that. And she actually had, she developed like diet bulimia, where she and I never did that I never that was too scary for me to purposefully keep my blood sugar's up and not take insulin to lose weight. I was just more standard, standard bulimia. But so I don't really know how that affected it. And then I would say after college, I checked back in. But I was told for years and years, Scott that I was a brittle diabetic and God I believed it. I was going from 300 to 3300 to 34 times a day. And they would just you know, there's nothing we can do. You're you're really doing a good job managing what you can and and your podcast was like life changing for me. And I started I'd say I started listening to it probably like two years ago, and I've had the best a one sees that I've ever had. And it it really happened very quickly. That's terrific. Yeah, so I would say before that my agencies were very regularly like, oh, 7.8 to 8.2. And now my most recent one was was a 6.0. Yeah. So.

Scott Benner 1:02:57
So you would say that, basically a generational concept of how to raise people put you in a position where you weren't comfortable being honest about what was going on, because of fear of retribution somehow. And then that translated into your medical life as well. And so yeah, yeah, right. So like, you're not going to tell the doctor what's really going on? Maybe you're not afraid of the doctor, but you're definitely afraid of getting back to your parents. Do you think the doctor knew when he said I won't tell your parents this time? Do you think he knew that you'd be in trouble in a way that he didn't want to have happened to you? Where do you think he was trying to do the thing where he was like, wow, befriend this person a little bit, make them feel like I'm on their side? Maybe I can get them to do what I? What would be good for them?

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:03:46
Yeah, I think it was probably a little bit of both. I don't think he would have had in any indication from, you know, he knew my dad, my dad was came to all the appointments. And again, if you didn't, if you didn't live in my house would have known you would not know this. I had a conversation not that long ago with that friend I was talking about and you know, I've moved away from my home state and so I don't live near her anymore. And we just catch up from time to time and I didn't really realize it but I kind of opened up to the about this stuff to her for the first time. And she was just shocked. She was like, I cannot believe that that was like what it was like, like my parents would be like, Why can't you be more like, like, yeah, yeah. So I you know, he is a very, you know, funny, charming, like, likable guy. But I do wonder if he could tell from my reaction. I just don't know if he knew if it was justified fear or not, or if that was just me having anxiety. perfectionistic afraid okay, but he probably I mean, I do think he could tell that. I don't know if he knew that my parents would react bad But at least I thought they would. And so he was like, Okay, this one time, as long as you promise me you're gonna do this, I'm not going to involve them. But know that if you don't, you know, get it under control or change it, I will have to I felt

Scott Benner 1:05:14
happy for you and kind of proud of you. And you said you don't live in that state anymore. It's a big thing for a person the way you the way you did away, that's a big deal. Yeah,

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:05:24
I yeah, I am the only one who doesn't, and I live close enough where you know, I can, I can drive home, but it's like a six hour drive. And so I do it, you know, a couple times a year, and everyone else in my family still lives there. And I can just say that I am a much healthier person having the space. And it is interesting, every time I go home, just seeing I am much I'm more of like an outsider now, because I have kind of, I've grown and I would just say that my sisters and parents have stayed very much in a very similar dynamic,

Scott Benner 1:06:09
the gravity of those situations is so heavy. And it it draws people in. And they just can't break away from it. Right. It's just in the codependence that happens. And the unhealthy behaviors that, that feed each other, and help how people in the family take on, you know, rolls, like, you know, you're the person, you're the person in the family, we can all pity and you're the person the family will get on. And you're the person in the family, it seems like they're in charge a mom and dad are somehow treated like, you know, I don't know, like the pope and his assistant like, even though we all know they're not. And it's, it's really interesting, it happens. I mean, everyone listening who has something like this going on recognizes that and their family, like this just disaster that everything is that everyone pretends is normal, and okay. And then when they kind of can get away from each other a little bit for five minutes. And all of the pressure to act the way you think you're supposed to act and do the things you think you're supposed to do. As soon as you get away from it for a little bit. You can look and say, Oh, that's, that's insane. Like I should I shouldn't be near that. And then some people have the ability to break away from it and some don't.

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:07:25
Yeah, and then even when you're away from it for a long time, if if you're not real careful. You know, in our case, we're a family of five, if four people you know, you go home for Thanksgiving or Christmas and four people are still playing those same roles. Yeah, if you're not real aware of it. It you know, they they will, I think very subconsciously, but kind of do everything to pull you back in that role. Oh, yeah, that's definitely something I'm always mindful of. And there's times where I'm like, oh, yeah, I totally fell back in the role of being like, the sick one that everyone can, you know, kind of feel bad for, but yet, at the same time, blame and it must be your fault that this is happening. Do you think and

Scott Benner 1:08:12
God I'm sorry, keep going. I just don't,

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:08:15
ya know, I would just that I can. And then there are times where I feel like you did a really good job not, you know, this was a time where you could have like, you, you felt like you should say this, but you didn't and you like stayed a little bit more true to who you are and want to be today. And you know, it's just it's, it's crazy how quick that stuff can come back to?

Scott Benner 1:08:38
Do you think that everyone's family? It Like It's a spectrum? Like, is there an amount of this? Not maybe, maybe not the, the abusive stuff, but like, there's an amount of crazy in every family. It's just that at some level, it's just expected because it's human interaction and family dynamic and stuff like that. And then the alcoholism and the anger and the the aggressive stuff, just kind of pushes it to another level, like the or do you think that somewhere right now? Like, the like, I don't know, Wally and the beaver and their parents, and they exist somewhere? Where do you think that doesn't? Yeah, no,

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:09:16
I think there's, I think there is a level of dysfunction in every family. And I think that just because I think every human has, I always tell my clients, we can all be awesome. And we can all be assholes, like, you wrote, are day to day. And so I think that there's a level of dysfunction. But I agree there's absolutely a spectrum. And obviously, like abuse is is on the more extreme intense end of that of the spectrum. But yeah, I think I think that there's a level of dysfunction. That's why I think like, everyone can benefit from therapy at some point. I don't think there's any sort of like shame in going to therapy or I I think it's part of kinda like seeing, seeing things clearly.

Scott Benner 1:10:04
It's a weird balance, right? Because aggression, I mean, there's a time in history where if you weren't an aggressive person, you weren't going to, you weren't going to make it. You know, and so that's built into you. And now you could say, in certain parts of the world, you don't need to be aggressive to make it. But there's still places where it matter. Like I joke about it when I talked about the podcast, and they say, like the podcast is, is really, it's very successful and very popular. But it's that way, you can, there's, there's probably a number of reasons. And I'm sure that people who are helped by it, we think other content is great, or Scott, you deliver it well, or anything like that. But, um, and that's not not not true. But part of the reason why it's successful is because I'm incredibly, incredibly, incredibly, I want to win, I am very competitive. And so I know I have a thing, like if I was the coach of a of the worst football team in the NFL, I'd still want to win. But I don't understand if we lost. But if I was the coach of the best team, and we didn't win, it would make me crazy. And like, I know, and I know this podcast is the is the best team in the NFL. And so I go out there with it every day with the intention of playing perfect football, running up the score, and making everybody else around me know that you can come and play with me if you want, but you're not gonna win. And like like that, that feeling is probably it's probably the aggression that my father pushed at me, like, be strong, don't back down. Like that kind of stuff. I've probably just translated into a modern world. And I'm using it in a modern world. And when I was younger, I can see where I would have just done what my dad did. Like I could see where I could have been like a yeller. And I did for a little while when my kids were really young. It was my first inclination. And like I said, Kelly's the one that was like, this isn't what we're doing. And I was like, and it took me a little bit, but I was like, okay, yeah, it makes sense. But like, the last time I raised my voice, I can't even remember what it was now.

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:12:07
Yeah, I am the same way. And for me, my inclination has never been to yell. And I kind of have always told, like, Pete, like, partners, or people I'm with, I can't, I cannot do yelling, and I cannot do swearing at me at people like those are things that I will I guess I if I was being released, it's probably technically like a trauma response, but I just won't, I can't deal with it. I won't put myself back in that situation. And so you know, and that's common, like when you you know, have had some abuse, there's, there's generally like, kind of two, you either will recreate it and, and that's not of any like fault of anyone's either this is just I think the human response. But you either this is what you've learned. And so you unintentionally even maybe you're no you're doing it and you hate it, you recreate it? Or I think sometimes people can, you know, somehow do the opposite. And I don't know what makes you one or the other of that in that group. Yeah, but there is something like I don't, I really don't think and then I have yelled at now, they are not my biological kids either. But they're here 50% of the time, and I've been in their life since they were really, really young. So we're very close. I'm very involved. But yeah, I just don't, I don't yell. But I remember that being just such a thing in my house that I hated. Yeah, that I think in some way it clicked that like, I, I don't even function. Well, if even if I'm the one who's yelling, I don't think I would function well in that house. It's interesting. I'm thankful. But that isn't a natural inclination of mine,

Scott Benner 1:13:50
you'd probably make yourself upset seriously, you'd be you'd probably be doing something uncontrollably and making yourself upset on top of it. It's funny, I have two younger brothers. And we all grew up in this. Well, I grew up I probably got the most of it. And then my father left when I was 13, which made my one brother eight, my other brother three, and then I basically raised them, you know, because my mom was at work. And like my middle brother is he's very emotional. He kind of and and reserved. And so if he gets upset, he kind of keeps it to himself. And my younger brother is does the like it listen if this is going wrong, like screw it, like just like he'll walk away from it kind of thing. Like you don't me like he won't get involved. And I don't know how it makes him feel. I was the one who fought back. But I think I think I fought back because I am adopted. So my, I think the way I think is different than the way that my family thinks. But I also felt protective of my mom who was clearly so yeah, she was clearly scared. And my brother and my brothers like I felt Yep, Like, you almost start acting like a human shield. Like for sure.

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:15:03
I think that's really common with oldest like that would be an oldest sibling trait in an abusive and my oldest sister was the same way I she would like, I remember both me and my other sister would be saying to my sister Stop, stop, just don't say anything else stop talking to them. I remember one time I saw she, she got up from the table, she threw a piece of pizza at him any, like, threw his chair back and was like going after real fast again, there. He didn't, like make contact with her. But I was just in disbelief that she did that. And I'm sure he was being really mean to her at the table. But she was that state, she kind of had to have the last word. She would, you know, jump in there and, and say things that I'm just sitting there going, it's true, but you're making him so much more angry. Shut up. Stop saying that stop doing that. But I think that was the same thing. It was her way of taking on the intensity of, you know, maybe protecting us. And then I think there's also that trait. When you're an oldest, you're kind of, in some ways, parental fide and you're used to telling other people what to do. So you have that like, mate, sometimes more of a little bit of like a No at all. Part of you,

Scott Benner 1:16:26
I tell you, for me, it also, I started seeing I was like I'm making more sense than they are. And so maybe I should be, maybe I should be like running the fact here. And it is a little like in that movie, too, where there's 10 people in a room and they've got to get away and they're all gonna die. And one guy's like, I'll run in the other direction and wave my hands over my head. They'll shoot me you guys can get away like it feels like that sometimes to like, you look over people and you're like, Listen, this is a mess isn't gonna get any better. At least if there's going to be shooting, maybe I can concentrate it over here on myself and save everybody else from it. But I don't think I saved everybody else from it. I just in that moment I might have but I wasn't with them constantly. I'm sure they got it.

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:17:08
Oh, yeah. There's there's no way that you could have you know, and that's also kind of a burden of the oldest is I think they feel like they they should maybe be able to do that or want to do that. And even if you're there all the time, you can't you can't shield all of that. Yeah, you know. So yeah, I think to just like going back to you said like, what is how is it affected me? I think the chapter I'm in now is just trying to figure out how to how to include people around me because I think I still feel very alone with my diabeetus. But at this point, I think that's pretty self inflicted, at least with my my current people like my my boyfriend and his kids. It's not self inflicted with my parents, that's still very much a, I remember when Dexcom like Cher came out. I had just mentioned to them when I was home, like if you guys ever wanted like you could see my blood sugars. And I hear people on here talk about like, adults who have people following their blood sugars. And that was such a foreign concept to me. And when I brought it up to my parents, they both instantly looked like a deer in headlights. And we're like, oh, no, oh, no, nope. We want nothing to do with that.

Scott Benner 1:18:30
You're standing there as an adult, basically, like a little kid going, Hey, if you want to prove that you love me. Yeah, you could. Yeah. And they're like, no, no, no, thank you.

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:18:38
Yep, it definitely reinforced like, okay, so you don't even want to be on there in case you know, I'm in another state. And you can see that my blood sugar's 30. And I haven't responded or done anything. And it stayed that way for a long time, you know, good to know. But like, I need to figure out to how to, I just don't even know where to start. Like, I also have pretty significant sleep apnea. And we've gone through these many treatments and things have not worked for various reasons. And so I'm very possibly going to have a surgery where they like move my jaw forward, because my airway is very small. It's like 20% of what it's supposed to be. And this surgery would be a really big deal with recovery. It would be six weeks on a liquid food diet. And I you know, I've listened to your episodes and Jenny's episodes about like, being in the hospital and dear Lord, do I have some, like er hospital experiences? I do not want to hand my diabeetus over to the doctors. But I'm also painfully aware that there is absolutely not there's no one in my life that would have the first clue with how to how to take my diabetes solver for a day or two or three. Now I know none of them would know how to work my pump, or, you know, what I would need. And again, some of that is was just the dynamic of my family of origin. And now it's like, I don't even I wouldn't even know where to start on how to like, you know, really let my boyfriend in on it. Or, and we've kind of tried a couple times and then he'll he just too is like I don't, it's, it's overwhelming. And I'm probably not explaining it in the best way. Because I don't have a lot of practice doing that. But I always just ended up having that same reaction of you know what, it's just easier if you do it. But I don't know what that would look like. And that makes me nervous of like, alright, what, what are those first five days Gonna, gonna look like? When you're

Scott Benner 1:20:53
gonna? They're gonna leave your blood sugar in the two or 300 It's in the hospital and just kind of keep you alive long enough. I mean, that's a since that seems like a really serious surgery. I mean, if you've got

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:21:04
it is. Yeah, they have to, you know, your your top jaw is attached to your skull. So if they're moving that forward, they're like cutting that off. And reattaching with hardware.

Scott Benner 1:21:20
Yeah, so. So if you're thinking of doing that, it sounds like you've tried a number of other things already to avoid. Oh, yeah,

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:21:26
yes. Yeah, I yeah, I've tried. Tried everything. And again, that's, that's to those, like, these kind of weird symptoms that follow me around, like, I've been just tired since day one, like, have probably high school, I could have slept anytime, anywhere. I always get my thyroid checked. I've listened to your episodes on that, too. And I really don't know, they'll everything always looks normal. But I know, that doesn't necessarily mean that it is either. So that's the other fear is, you know, maybe part of it isn't the sleep apnea. And what if I go through all of that, and it doesn't fix that? Well, tell me I'm still tired.

Scott Benner 1:22:07
Do you know what your TSH is?

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:22:10
Um, I did not off the top of my head. But I know it got it's been tested. And they tell

Scott Benner 1:22:17
you it's in range, quote within range. Don't do that. Go find out what it is. And if it's over to tell them you want to be treated for your thyroid symptoms. That's it. I don't care if your TSH if it's over two. Yeah, if it's over like to 2.1 right in there, then tell them look, I have a lot of thyroid issues. And because what I'm guessing is your thyroid is going to come back at like the TSH will be like four or five or something like that. And they're gonna say, well, that's in range, but it's not you needed under to to get rid of your symptoms, which by the way, could also be your joint pain. Yeah, seriously, like, that's a simple thing to check on. First, and a good way to get the doctor to kind of help you if they they're like, well, we don't treat, you know, we don't treat thyroid, if it's not blah, blah, blah, whatever they're gonna say, Yeah, say, Look, I have a lot here. I have a lot of thyroid issues. My TSH is over two. I've heard from a lot of people who you know, manage their thyroid well that do two or under is what you're shooting for without getting hyper. And so what's it going to hurt to give me some of this medication and see if my issues clear up? I guarantee you if you're if you're over to that, that's going to help you.

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:23:29
Okay, yeah, so I just found it. It's one. It's 1.01. Yeah, see? That's good. So that's pretty good.

Scott Benner 1:23:35
That's good. So maybe then the RA, maybe you have RA and that's part of like, you're sleeping like maybe you're not sleeping well. And I'm

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:23:42
not I'm not sleeping well, when I've done for sleep studies this year. And when I'm untreated, like I did an untreated one. And I I think my I woke up I had these like awakenings like 42 times an hour, and I never hit REM sleep. Once I had 0% REM sleep in like the seven hours I was asleep. So and then you know, we have the different treatments. But that that is the other thing is I do I feel like I've had a lot of other just like health issues. And that is something I feel like kind of insecure about and I've struggled and again, have this urge to ask for help, but at the same time have an urge to hide that because it means there's something wrong with me or I've done something wrong. Yeah, it's just created that that kind of double bind,

Scott Benner 1:24:35
what happens to you when you have that thought, as a human being but then you're also a therapist, and you recognize that that thought is not real? Like what would you tell us? What would you tell a patient if they said that to you?

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:24:50
Yeah, well I I'm so I specialize in a therapy called DBT dialectical behavior therapy. And there's like, there's deeper work and individual. And then there's this whole set of skills and I it's like a lifestyle and I use it all the time to the steal would technically be called opposite action like, and I it happens to me all the time where I'm aware, like I have my thoughts, they kind of check them around facts, do they fit the facts? Or are they effective, because sometimes your thought fits the facts, but it still is not, it's not an effective thing to meet your goal or to meet your needs. And then you have to, you know, you challenge that both behaviorally and cognitively. So when I noticed myself doing that, I very much try to, like, reach out and ask for for help. While also like validating those insecure thoughts and knowing it, so it's okay, that you need help. And like, I think I do have a lot of other health stuff, my body is constantly fighting to be an equilibrium where a lot of people's bodies are just there naturally. Yeah, that has to have some, some lasting, you know, effects. And so, you know, just kind of validating that, but just like any human, sometimes, you know, what you should do, and you're not always successful following Yeah, following through, you know, for sure,

Scott Benner 1:26:12
I mean, there's, that's not to say

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:26:13
I have 100% success rate. But that's the goal. Yeah, and I try to do,

Scott Benner 1:26:20
there's the truth of the matter and what you're able to accomplish. I mean, you know, if everybody could just take the truth of the matter and march forward with it, then we'd all you know, be at the right, you know, body mass index, and we'd all be getting the right amount of exercise, and nobody would eat a burrito and like, you know, the whole thing. So yeah, but it must be a little more frustrating, when it's within your professional realm. To have a thought that you know, to yourself, you can say, this is not a real thought I shouldn't be doing like this is this as a fragment a leftover thing from how I was raised or something I experienced. And if I could just drop it on the floor and leave it there, I'd leap forward. Like, it must be different to experience it, and know it and not be able to do it, then it is for the regular, like a layman to experience it not know what's happening and just think this is life.

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:27:13
Sure, yeah. I think I think that's definitely true. Sometimes, I also think that because I've done my own therapy, and I'm, I'm a therapist that I also kind of am, um, you know, a little bit maybe I try to be more skilled in like, also just like self compassion and kind of accepting, accepting my humanity and pause. And so you're totally right, I have absolutely had Fatah frustrating, like, you know what to do, but you could, why are you just doing it. But I would also say that there's just also an awareness of like, that. It's okay. And telling yourself that or being frustrated or beating yourself down is you just kind of more tapping into your mom or dad's voice of telling you, you screwed up again. And that's not going to help like, you didn't screw up, you're human. And you're not going to, you're not going to be perfect, like stop even chasing that. You're setting yourself up for failure here.

Scott Benner 1:28:15
It's so crazy. How, how differently, you can put people in the same situation and how differently they come out of it. I mean, like, I'm not, I'm nowhere near perfect. And I'm sure I have impacts from how I was raised that are not healthy for me. But overall, I do think that part of it turned me into a fighter. And and how do you get lucky like that? How do you get turned into a fighter instead of a person who cowers or Oh, yeah, you know, it's just it seems so random. It's not it's nothing like I did on purpose. For certain. It's just my natural response is like, I don't know if you've ever I've told this story on the podcast before we're my dad just wanted me to agree with him about something like sort of your sister in the pizza. Oh, yep. Yes. And I just remember Yeah, and I didn't give in and to the point where I was like, I'm gonna take a beating here, but I'm still right. Like, what? Why would I just not do what your sister like what you were telling your sister like, just stop? Like, why didn't I just look at him and go, Hey, you know what, man? I thought it over. And you're 100% Right. Like, that seems to be what you want to hear right now. So like, let me give it to you. And there are also people who would have fought back like I did, but then turned into their father. Like it's also much dumb luck if I don't meet Kelly if like, things don't happen if I'm not able to kind of like elevate my job situation as I go on. Like, I could easily be a guy working in a shop. I don't know if I've if people really pay attention. I mean, I talk a lot. So it's hard to it's hard to remember everything. But it's Kelly, recognizing who I was beyond my circumstances, that really that really saved my life.

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:30:00
Yeah, yeah. And I don't think I can say, I can't say the the exact same for my partner especially like I just he, we didn't meet until a little till later. But my partner is also a therapist. And so he's certainly, like I did a ton of therapy in college. That was kind of after like the peak of my eating disorder. And that really just, I had to kind of get through that. And that, interestingly, is that really, is mom's stuff tensed up, we won't even go into that. But well, that's a whole nother thing. But he, I mean, I, yes, we will. He can kind of speak that language with me. And, and, you know, again, just help to kind of, it's not about blaming or but just seeing things kind of clearly, okay, when your mom or dad does this that makes you feel like you should do this. But how does that line up for you? Do you want to do that or not?

Scott Benner 1:30:56
Did your mom call you fat? Or did she infer that you didn't want to be? Or like,

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:31:02
oh, yeah, no, what my mom, my mama. So I was diagnosed in second grade. And I was real thin, because I probably been high for a very long time. And if the Well, again, this is another adult moment that I look back, and I'm like, dear Lord, I remember it was about third grade, when my mom told me that we needed to watch what I ate, because I had gained a lot of weight because I was on insulin, and my blood sugar was I wasn't high, you know, so I am sure some of it was just normal. And also, I was kind of having to snack a lot, because we were trying to figure out, I went low, like all the time at school. And in my mind up until a couple of years ago, on one of our books is the picture of me from second grade when I fainted. And then my third grade picture and in my mind in third grade I am obese. Looking at the picture now after like a several year break. I am a normal kid, like I am by no means obese. Yeah, but in in my mind, I was I am I am significantly again, my if other people around me would know. And they'd probably they would challenge the significantly but like I am, I'm bigger than my mom or my sisters by quite a bit. And that they've, I would say all had eating stuff. And yeah, that that was a very common thread was just talking about my weight. You know what I'm eating? Do I need that? You know, maybe it's because of the diabeetus but it was very focused on what what you look like and I never I was always very pretty obviously the one missing the mark,

Scott Benner 1:32:53
I'll tell you you paint Harrison, you've painted a patient today of of humanity that doesn't really deserve to exist.

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:33:02
Thing is I love my family and you know, met them and came in you were there. They have wonderful qualities too. And, and that was stuff put on my mom by her mom. You know, I'm very aware of that, because I got it from that Grandma too. But we didn't live very close to that grandma, but that grandma would openly you know, if you went in to get a cookie, she would say are you should do really think you need that. Are you supposed to be eating that? Well, that's it all that came, you know,

Scott Benner 1:33:32
here's the path as far as I'm concerned, the average IQ in society's got to go up to about 110 Maybe 115. Once that happens, and we can burn out two generations of terrible people. I think we're going to be on our way. I think maybe maybe just another 150 years.

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:33:50
technology and social media doesn't take us down first. I can get with you. That's a question that I don't I don't know if we know what factor that has to play yet.

Scott Benner 1:34:03
It's going to it's going to backfire. And I'll tell you why. No, I and I've said this in the blogosphere. I'm not embarrassed to say this. In a very short amount of time. Social media has. What's the word I'm looking for? Has dulled me to sexuality. Like when I was a kid, oh yeah, here's what I mean by that when I was 15 If any girl I don't even care if I would have found her attractive or not like she in my personal preference or not, would have stood and made a video in a T shirt without a bra bouncing up and down and showed it to me. I would have been like the world is a perfect place i In this video we're gonna go off and live happily together. Now. This will be enough for me. And and instead it's so pervasive at this point. i It's interesting. It's having the opposite effect. I'm not looking at women in the sexual way that I used to all the time. Like they it's been put in my face so much. I don't care about it. Yeah, you're like, desensitized, desensitized to it at all, like something that, like something that would have just made me in the past be like, Oh my God, how have I been so lucky to be in the presence of this situation? Now I just I see it, and it's not constant. But like, when I see it, I'm like, I don't even care. You ruined boobs, for me is how it feels. Yeah, but um,

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:35:31
but at the same time, I think the double blind in that is that, like, having so much social media for many, many people has also fueled this, like, extreme seeking of a need for external validation. But yet you're describing what I think is very true that a lot of people like you, can't you we keep having to up the ante to even get any validation, because people are desensitizing to it. But we're also like seeking it and feeling like we're not okay, unless you have enough likes, or, you know, gone viral or whatever else, or use filters to make sure our pictures are, you know, only putting off that this certain version of ourself. And so, I think it's, it's hard because there's so much of it, that you're, you're probably not going to get a lot of it. Or if you get it, it doesn't have much of an impact anymore. But yet, it's kind of like a drug that first Hi, everybody still or not everybody, like I chase that social media. Yeah, but a lot of people want it, they chase it and can't really get it. You know,

Scott Benner 1:36:36
I'm gonna tell you for the life of me, what I really believe is, this is a positive thing. But it's going to take so long, I'm not going to say it. But But what I mean is, I think somehow this is going to level men and women out like, you know how we're always. I mean, listen, I don't think this is like a great like objectifying women and like that kind of stuff. I think it's going to level it out. I think there's going to be another generation of men that comes along. That's like, Yeah, I saw that. I'm good. Like, do you know what I mean? Like, and they're not going to get as like, as excited as like a 1983. Scott would have been, we were just like, wow, what have I done? Like, like, am I being that would

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:37:15
be amazing. And I hope that you are right. I don't I don't know if you are if we're just gonna keep seeking to then up the ante. But I mean, that's a very positive outlook on it, and I might try to adopt it.

Scott Benner 1:37:33
It's a longer look, and I'm not going to live long enough to say it. But yeah, I also don't believe I don't believe that every little girl is going to grow up to be on only fans one day. Like, I don't I don't think that either. And it's tough because right now, there are some like bombastic stories of that girl from the Dr. Phil Show. I don't know her name. But you remember she was on doc, she became very famous on Dr. Phil for like snapping back at somebody in the audience and saying, like, meet me outside or something like that. What was what did she say? Do you want to use? I

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:38:07
have no idea.

Scott Benner 1:38:09
Okay, don't somebody I'm going to figure this out. So I think she's on Dr. Phil. If I'm not mistaken, somebody in the audience like her mom's trying to get she's out of control her mom's I mean, while if you're on Dr. Phil, we're all out of control. But like, you know, she's she's out of control. And I guess somebody in the audience pushes back at her. And she stands up. And basically, in the vernacular of when I was growing up, offers her out this says to her, why don't we go outside and fight? Right. And she used as a term, I don't know what it was meet me outside or something. And it becomes incredibly like in the zeitgeist. And she becomes famous for it to the point where I think she made a song, like some producer, like, you know, came in and was like, like, let's use your sound clip. Make a Song of it? Well, now she's I don't know what she's doing. I've never I want to be clear, I've never seen only fans, but she's on only fans doing something sexual. I don't know, to what level but there are reports that reports from her, like, she just brought out her receipts basically, she made $52 million doing it. And that makes that can take some people and go oh, geez for $52 million. Like, I guess I do it to like, and people start thinking about why, but I do believe that most people wouldn't. And I don't and by the way, I don't think that like I'm not coming down on those people. I don't even think like, you know, there's I think there are people who need pornography and and there are people who want to, to produce it and I don't care what people do. I mean, if you've listened this long enough, I don't care what you do. You should do whatever you want to do. But yeah, but I do think that like on that other level where we're talking about like it's just desensitized as the right word, like, you're just you're gonna use this thing so many times. It's not not going to have its power anymore. And I don't know if that doesn't take us in a better direction or not. I'm interested. You know, I wish I can live another 100 years. I'd like to find out if you know, yeah, if young boys just one day I'll be like, yeah, that's okay. Like, I mean, I love you. And I think you're pretty and all and you know, in our personal life, that's lovely. But I don't I don't need this from everybody anymore. I don't or maybe I'm just old. You know what I mean? Like, I have no idea like, maybe I aged past my sexual awakening.

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:40:33
Anyway, so I definitely think there's something to it. I just don't I don't know about the outcome. But because I don't know, as I said, I will maybe choose to go down your your positive route, because I don't know what the outcome will be. And that would be great. If it did. Did even half of that.

Scott Benner 1:40:54
I have to just say apparently was Catch me outside. She does Catch me outside. How about that? Like that? Do you remember that? No, no, I

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:41:06
don't. Okay,

Scott Benner 1:41:07
I'm now learning more. She's now goes by the name. Bad Baby. But it's BH ad BHABIE. She's the she's the Kashmir Kashmir outside girl. She has been in rehab already for different substance abuses. And then there's this thing from very recently where she put out as she she was part of an article somewhere and she said I made $50 million. And please don't call me the Cash Me Outside girl. Like so. She's not even 20 years old yet. Wow. And she has $52 million, or whatever from I'm assuming. I don't know what but I don't think people run to give you money if you're if you're dressed. And on the internet on only fans. Yeah, I don't

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:41:55
I honestly don't really know. Only fans works. Obviously, certainly can.

Scott Benner 1:42:02
Yeah, you can do it anything you want with it. But I think that what brings in? Yeah, it's used as private porn, basically, like there's a person you are you You probably attach your credit card to it and pay them something monthly, and it gives you access to a page that other people can't get to. So, but the point is, I don't know. I don't know what the point is. We're so far away from it. Now. Here's the point. Here's the point. Everybody's a mess on some level. And the real goal is like for you tell me again, you're 33? Yeah, you have plenty of time to leave this behind you still? Do you think you can?

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:42:44
I'm about? I don't know how to answer that. Do I think I can leave it 100% behind me? Probably not. I just think that change is really hard for humans, you know, and I think even in therapy, like, it takes a long time. If you if you think that where I am now, or some of these damages, or whatever hurts, you know, took 25 years to create. Why would I ever expect in a year to turn flip it all over? But do I think I can, you know, decrease it or leave? You know, 5060, maybe even 70% behind? Yeah, and that's the goal. I also don't, I don't, you know, I don't want it to be necessarily like, gone gone. Because it's also a big part of who I am. You know, I think part of like, knowing about, as you said, like your mess, or having some of that with you is kind of formative but you certainly want to be more in control of it than it is of you. You know, or you're just following it by default. Versus like, you know, carrying it with you so that you can use it for perspective as needed. But also, you can not follow it when that's not going to serve you well. You know, yeah, I leave it behind when that's helpful.

Scott Benner 1:44:12
I take your point like maybe the you don't want to forget who you are, how you got to where you are, because there's so much about you, that's obviously really positive and valuable, and it's who you are on top of all that. But but you don't want to maybe I shouldn't have said left that behind but maybe like not be burdened by it as much. Yeah,

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:44:30
yeah. Or, like controlled by it or not even aware that I'm doing, you know, playing into the same patterns or whatnot like absolutely that that I want to, I think I already have and definitely plan to continue to work on just being able to like, notice it's there and, you know, manage it as effectively as as possible.

Scott Benner 1:44:55
Yeah, well, that's I guess that's the goal. So do you see a therapist I Some it's not your husband right?

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:45:04
Yeah, boyfriend. Yeah, I don't I don't see a therapist right now. But I have it many different. Well, not many, like, I guess, I've probably gone to therapy for, oh, two years, maybe three different times, you know. And some of that more like, spaced out than others. And it wasn't always like weekly. But I Yeah, I'm a very firm, I think literally everyone, whether you have a clinical diagnosis or not, it's kind of just about getting to know yourself. And yeah, your family, what drives you? Make sure you're you're, you know, doing stuff for you and not, not other people. I think that's one of the biggest things is when we were not even necessarily sure if we're kind of living for our own values, or if that's what we think our value should be. Because mom or dad about thought that was really important, or society does or whatever, I don't know. So I don't even think it always has to be to solve issues, but it can just be about, like self reflection and, and awareness.

Scott Benner 1:46:11
I've always, I've often thought that being adopted helped me. Because as a young person, like a really young person, I recognized enough difference between me and my family, that I thought like, oh, like they believe things because they believe them. I don't have I don't have to believe that if I don't want to. Yeah, and yeah, that's really nice. I mean, I can't believe I'm saying this, it was great not having parents that I felt like, like that thing I explained earlier. Like, this is the world and this is how it goes. Because this is where I was plopped down when I became conscious. And so and that's all we all do. Like, it's, you know, I mean, people make the comment the point all the time, and nobody can understand it. But I mean, if you take a baby born to a racist family, and pick it up and drop it in a family who's got no racism and law, you're gonna raise a baby, it's not racist, like for you know, what I mean, for the most part, you're gonna have that opportunity. You are, you are largely, you know, people say, is that nature or nurture? Well, it's both your wiring works in a certain way. And you're being nurtured in that direction as well, if you take me out of it, and at least I'm not being nurtured in that direction, then maybe my wirings got a chance to see what it thinks makes sense. It's the, you know, I've said this before, but as I was growing up in my teens and my early 20s, I would look at the people around me. And, and not not like idolize them or mimic them. But like, there was a an older man that I worked with. And he had this certain way about him. And I always used to think like, he's a kind guy, that's good. Like, like that. That's it, that's a thing worth thinking about adding to myself. And then there was a guy who had a great sense of humor, but he wasn't as crass as I was. And I thought, okay, like, See, he's still funny, but it's not, it's not over the top. And there were hard working guys that I worked with. And there were nurturing people that I worked with. And I was almost able to kind of like, like, because in the end, your parents are just like, the grocery store of ideas, and you shop from it. Right? You go. Like, I like the way my mom does this. Um, when I feel that way, I might lean into that a little bit. I don't like the way my dad does this. So when I feel myself going that way, I'm going to try not to lean into it. I just use the bigger grocery store. I wasn't stuck with two people. Not that, by the way, I didn't take things from my parents who raised me to theirs. You know, like a lot of great about them. But I just had more opportunities. And I'm sure people do that with like, family, friends and, you know, parents of their friends and stuff like that. But I was doing it consciously. Like I remember doing it cost. Yeah.

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:48:49
That's it. Yeah. Well, and I think the other piece is you have to know that like you have permission to not buy the whole grocery store. No, I don't have to take it. I remember someone said my one of I think it was my therapist in college that said, like, so here's, here's the deal. Like, we all all of our parents give us some good stuff, and they give us some bad stuff. And you get to decide what you want to continue to, like believe in or carry with you or not

Scott Benner 1:49:17
just to have that autonomy to say I don't believe in that. Yes,

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:49:20
yeah. Yep. And at that time, you know, I think that was pretty new to me, like, oh, I don't have to think that what I look like is the main source of my value. That's, that cannot be right. That's insane. I don't know. That's not and of course, now. Thank goodness, I've like really embraced that. But at the time, that was, you know, way outside the box. So I think you have to have, you know, the permission or awareness to that too. It's interesting about what you said, and I can totally see that about your adoption. I've sometimes felt that way with my diabeetus as much as I As you know, sometimes hate it and wish I didn't have it. I've, I think that one of the reasons I've been able to get a little bit more distance from my family is probably because of the diabeetus. Because in some ways, I was kind of like a burden. And they didn't have the tools to deal with it in a super effective way. It created a little it created more distance, and they didn't deal with me as much. And so I didn't get as much I definitely got stuff, and I got some stuff that my sisters didn't get. But I wondered a lot. And I definitely think there's something to that it created some space, where there was enough that they didn't really want to have to deal with that, that they I didn't get as much of, of some of that stuff. Yeah, oh, I can't, when I've watched my I've watched my sisters, you know, struggle more. And in other ways. It's interesting, my my oldest sister, who would fight back and got the most years with my dad, you know, not being sober, and just hated and would be so openly, you know, critical of his drinking, has a horrible substance use addiction now that she just can't get out of it's much worse than my dad's. And it's much bigger than alcohol. And it's heartbreaking and scary. But I don't, you know, she didn't, she was really steeped in that. And then, you know, I think she took on some of the intensity as that oldest, oldest sibling often does. But I think that in some ways, the diabeetus kind of separated me and made me an outsider a little bit. And I think it's one of the things that has allowed me to differentiate in the ways that I have,

Scott Benner 1:51:54
that's an amazing perspective, that you know, what, what you look at as, like people not caring about you, because your medical needs make you more difficult to them. As hard as hard as that is to hear and probably as hard as it is to live with. It also created a enough space for you, where they weren't trying to suck you back into their gravity. And you were able to just go like, you know, it is okay to be away from these people. They're not really helping me anyway. Like, it's like, you know what I mean? Like, it's just enough, right? Like, they just turned out absolutely just enough,

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:52:25
eventually, like, this is still something I will totally trip up on. But I trip on a trip on it a lot less often. But it eventually made me also stopped, stop begging to be in the orbit, you know, eventually I found out, you know, you're gonna keep getting hurt, if you kind of ask for them to care, but they, there's too much. And so, you know, do that less. I think we always want approval and care. And so like I said, I think that's something I will still trip up on and think, Well, maybe I can tell him about this. And they'll react differently. And most of the time I get a pretty similar reaction. And then I think why would you react that way, and I have to process it. But it's yeah, not only are they not, you know, kind of pulling me back in because that's bringing stress into their orbit. But I'm also not constantly seeking to get in it. Because I know that the orbit kind of ends up hurting me even though I also know that there's a lot of love in that orbit. And if I just go into it in a very boundaried way I can experience more of that and less of the unintentional

Scott Benner 1:53:32
this this boundary it also mean, understanding who they are not asking more of them than they have.

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:53:39
Yes, okay. Yep. Absolutely. Yeah. And no, kind of knowing what, that's what I mean, when I say like seeing them clearly kind of knowing what they're capable of what they aren't, what are my bottom lines, because just because they're not capable doesn't mean that I should settle on everything. There are some limits that I just Alright, well, then I don't, I will not like you don't have the right to this type of information anymore. Because I'm not going to allow myself to get hurt by that. But this is a place where we can connect and it's like safe, and I will choose to connect that way instead. You know, so like you you were saying it quite well earlier when you just talked about like, I talk about trying to understand parents a lot and it's not ever that I'm trying to say that everything they did was okay. Like again, no parent is perfect and cluding myself and I'm gonna give my kids some damage, I'm sure. But all we can do is our best. It's not ever about saying that if I understand like my dad's childhood that makes everything he did okay, but at least I can understand that it's wasn't about me in it, and it also wasn't about him trying to do that. It was about this was a situation that was kind of reIated him, and he's doing the best that he can. And sometimes that wasn't good enough. And it's okay that I have heard around that. But it wasn't that he didn't, that he purposefully tried to just do that, to me. That was just that was, you know, that makes sense that he did that. It doesn't make it okay. But it helps me to understand it. And and not a way where I blame myself.

Scott Benner 1:55:23
Yeah, it's, you know, I had to do that it took me a while because my father left on my birthday. And that felt personal, even, even at 13 years old. I was like, Ah, this can't be. Right. Yeah. So, but still, it's still meaningless. Like, I think I think that I mean, I don't know, right. But I challenged my dad in a way that he wasn't expecting, and he wasn't equipped to fight back with. And I mean, if he did that on purpose or not, it felt on purpose. And then, but it took me it took me years, but it took me years to realize what you just said, like, it doesn't matter. Like it really whether he felt that way or not. I was I was 13. Like, I didn't do anything to him. You don't I mean, like, I was just living my life trying to be, you know, trying to get through. Yeah. And so once you just let that go, there, it's funny. It's funny how much talk therapy can help with that, too. I don't need I don't need therapy, I have this podcast, but. But just talking things through and saying them out loud, as crazy as it sounds. And I'll say this over and over again, forever. Like you have these problems, these things that are twisted in the inner wound into your soul in your heart in your brain. And it feels like well, how would I ever separate these things so that I can I can be free of them? And I think sometimes the truth is, you just have to say them out loud. And as crazy as it sounds, it sort of loses its power. It's like saying Voldemort, you know what I mean? Like, they're the biggest problem they had in the in the Harry Potter films, if I, if I can just mix reality with fiction is that they gave the guy the power by being afraid of him. And once once one guy stood up and was like, I don't care, I'm gonna say his name. Like, it's the beginning of the end right there. Like, you just have to sort of just name the thing and say it out. Yeah. Yeah.

Anonymous Female Speaker 1:57:17
Well, and you have to get it out there with some different sounding boards, because like when it's just in your head, it's being validated by all the stuff that created the thought to begin with. But it's when you get out and you start to realize like, oh, so someone just had a different reaction to that. I guess not everybody's family did that. You know, I think as humans, we're very used to like, we just kind of assume that everyone's thinking or experiencing a somewhat similar thing. We're not super comfortable with change or difference. But but then when we talk out loud, it kind of forces us to see that that either doesn't sound right, or someone had a response that was so different. And well, how is their response so different than mine, I thought everyone would think this way. Well, their parents taught them this, it just helps it, that's the only way to see it. You know, and that's so hard about your dad, leaving on your, on your birthday. And I also just want to say like, so typical and age appropriate for you. Even if it wasn't your birthday? That just adds a level to it. But take that on as your own. Because until we're like 22, really, we're still we're very ego focused, like we're always thinking in some way, you know about, it's about me, yeah, other people are thinking about me, what are they judging about me? What, you know, if that's just a very normal way to think we don't have the ability to truly like, step outside and 100% look at someone else's perspective, especially first, usually. And so you know, that's why so many kids feel like the divorce is their fault. You know, abuse is their fault. It's just at that point, that's like, our developmental brain space where, you know, just as I thought that some of the diabetes stuff was my fault, or, you know, I better hide this because you obviously did something wrong to make it this way. You know,

Scott Benner 1:59:09
when you stop and think about it, my dad was a, he was a simple guy, right? He grew up on a farm. He didn't go to college, he didn't spend any time self reflecting. He probably didn't leave on my birthday on purpose. It was probably just circumstances. And if I look back for hours before he left, we were traveling somewhere together. And he goes, Hey, it's your birthday. And I was like, yeah. And he goes, Oh, what do you want? And I picked something that was like in my world. I said, Oh, I'd love to stop at this computer store and get this thing. And it was like $99. And I'm telling you in a million years, nobody in my house got $100 gift ever. You know what I mean? Sure. And my dad's like, this is really what you want as a gift. And he pulled out a credit card and he bought it and gave it to me. And I look back now and I think oh god he knew he was Gonna leave. Like he knew, like it was all planned out already like, but. So like when I can really as an adult look back on it. I think if he's trying to hurt me, he wouldn't have bought me a big gift before he did it. And I'm like, Oh, this had nothing to do with me. But like, to your point, everything feels like it's about you, especially when you're younger. And so anyway, you know, this just was random. He wasn't even, like, thoughtful enough to think, Oh, I am gonna leave but let's not do it on Scott's birthday. Like he just he wasn't that well thought out. You know? I mean, like, I don't think he was well thought and enough out to hurt somebody on purpose. To be perfectly honest with you. It's it's oh my god, we can talk about this forever. I gotta let you go. He's doing like two hours. Yeah, two hours. I don't know if this is the longest one ever. But we got to be right in the ballpark. So I need to ask you one question before we go. Because I want to use the right phrasing. At some point, this is going to come out it's going to be called after dark colon something. What should it be called?

Anonymous Female Speaker 2:01:03
Oh, God, I hate this question. You I think you're so much more.

Scott Benner 2:01:09
No, but what did we talk about today? If you had to boil it down?

Anonymous Female Speaker 2:01:12
Oh, you mean okay. So now not one of your clever, clever. No, no, you

Scott Benner 2:01:16
don't have to? Yeah, they know. Okay, I can Yeah, what is? Well, I'm not that easy. All you people are like Scott's titles don't tell me what's not. It's not that easy. And so like, is this? It's is it childhood trauma? Is it? Is it a child of like alcoholism? Like, what's the core of your story that I'm asking you to tell me what your origin is?

Anonymous Female Speaker 2:01:48
Yeah, this is this isn't worded well, but I'm trying to think of a better

Scott Benner 2:01:54
workshop. I think

Anonymous Female Speaker 2:01:56
it's kind of like growing up with like, diabeetus without enough like help or support or, or in a household without like, the tools to deal with it. Again, it needs to be way shorter. But to me, that's how I would summarize it is just that I did not get enough help.

Scott Benner 2:02:17
What if I call after dark? unsupported?

Anonymous Female Speaker 2:02:21
Perfect. Well, I think that's great. All right.

Scott Benner 2:02:24
Because I yeah, I you know, people that it started out where people were like, you know, if you made the title, something that I knew was going on, and I would tell them, like, I don't know what we taught. I mean, it's an hour, you're talking about a number of things like, I can't, you know, like, I don't know what you talked

Anonymous Female Speaker 2:02:39
about so many things outside of my unsupported diabetic childhood, you know, and that's one of the things I love about the podcast. And I always chuckle at the titles, so just just not that that has to count for anything by you do.

Scott Benner 2:02:55
Did you? Did you catch chicken thighs last week?

Anonymous Female Speaker 2:02:58
I did. I had, like I said, I'm like two months behind. So I haven't seen the most recent but I will I'm sure I will again when I get to.

Scott Benner 2:03:08
I appreciate that very much. All right. I really thank you so much for doing this. Hold on one second for me. Okay. Okay. A huge thank you to one of today's sponsors, G voc glucagon, find out more about Chivo Capo pen at G voc glucagon.com. Ford slash juicebox. you spell that GVOKEGLUC AG o n.com. Forward slash juice box. I also want to thank us Med and remind you that you can get started today by calling 888-721-1514 or going to the link us med.com forward slash juice box. Thank you so much for listening. I really appreciate it. I'll be back again very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast. Don't forget you can save 10% off your first month of therapy with better help with my link better help.com forward slash juice box and you can save 35% off your entire order of sheets bedding towels, sweat pants, all the great stuff they have at cozy earth.com By using the offer code juice box at checkout. And if you're looking for a great community around diabetes, head over to the private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes now has 36,000 members in it. All it's missing is you