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Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 872 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Today, I'll be speaking with Jim. He's had type one diabetes for 55 years. And I think what I want to tell you about this episode is that a number of times, Jim really surprised me. You're never gonna go wrong with that. While you're listening. Please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan, or becoming bold with insulin. If you would like to save 35% on your entire order at cosy earth.com, all you need to do is use the offer code juice box at checkout It is that simple. Don't forget to go to T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juice box and take the survey completing the survey helps type one diabetes research it helps you and it supports the podcast T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox. Go complete the survey. And if you're looking for community around type one diabetes, look no further than the Juicebox Podcast private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes

What did you do first thing this morning. The first thing I did was drink my ag one from athletic greens. Ag one is available at athletic greens.com forward slash juicebox. And when you use my offer code, you're also gonna get five free travel packs and a year supply of vitamin D. Thank you ag one for sponsoring this episode. Today's podcast is sponsored by touched by type one, now touched by type one is out there doing the good work touched by type one.org helping people with type one diabetes through their organization of just lovely people. It's wonderful. You have to go look at it touched by type one.org. And of course find them on Facebook and Instagram. I'll be speaking at their next event. So I hope I see you there.

Jim 2:24
My name is Jim. I live in northern Georgia. I'm a retired rubber chemist. I'm a musician and a car guy. I have three children and seven grandchildren. I'm 69 years old, and I've had type one diabetes for 55 years. But it does not slow me down.

Scott Benner 2:47
Jim, you are right, you have a longer intro because I think you have a longer richer life and some of the people who come on come on at a younger age and you make condoms. Well, back when you were working. Is that right?

Jim 2:57
Well, not that kind of rubber factory. It was mostly automotive parts.

Scott Benner 3:05
Okay. All right. Well, then there's a ton to pick through here. Isn't there? Sure. 55 your 14 when you were diagnosed?

Jim 3:13
I was actually 13 Or I was diagnosed in January to 67 and I turned 14 that March.

Scott Benner 3:22
Okay. 67 Yeah. All right. We're gonna get to that for certain of your children. Anybody have autoimmune?

Jim 3:32
No, no one. Of course my I have 344 of my grandchildren are under four years old. So it may be kind of early to tell. But so far, nothing.

Scott Benner 3:49
Nobody's being tested for markers or anything like that.

Jim 3:52
No, I haven't. I think I'm gonna just let them know they can do that if they want to. But no one else in my family either my you know, none of my parents, grandparents, uncles, aunts, cousins. Nobody.

Scott Benner 4:07
How about in your back in your family line? Other stuff like celiac or? I don't know. Hashimotos? Anything like that?

Jim 4:15
No. My mother died of leukemia in 1959. And my parents died 10 to 15 years ago but no, no auto immune stuff that I was aware of.

Scott Benner 4:33
Jimmy lost your mom when you were four.

Jim 4:35
I was six it was 1959

Scott Benner 4:41
Oh, that's that's something else.

Jim 4:43
Yeah, it was. You know, and it never really. I've never really had huge effects from anyone close to me dying except for my brother. He died maybe four years ago. And he, he was. I'm not sure what his actual diagnosis was. He was from what anyone could tell he was severely autistic. He was non communicative. He never spoke. And he got sick and ended up in the hospital on life support. And my parents being dead, I was left with the decision to basically unplugged machines. That was That was rough. Yeah, younger brother,

Scott Benner 5:40
older brother.

Jim 5:42
He was two years older than me. Okay. And

Scott Benner 5:45
it's interesting, because I guess if when he was born, like, do you think he ever had like an autism diagnosis? Or was that not something they did then?

Jim 5:54
Yeah, I don't know that they really knew much about it. until many years later. I think they just the first diagnosis was probably something like brain damage. So did but as far as I know, he was like that from birth. So

Scott Benner 6:12
did he live with your parents or in a facility?

Jim 6:16
He often on he lived with, with us at times? Probably until I was oh, 10 Because my dad remarried. And my stepmom just wasn't, she was kind of high strung, loved her dearly. And we had a great relationship, but she just wasn't equipped to deal with my brother. So. So he was in a facility after that. Gotcha.

Scott Benner 6:47
There are days 30 days, Jim, when I'm high strung. I just wish people use the term still.

Jim 6:54
Yeah, I'm typically not I'm pretty laid back.

Scott Benner 6:57
I can tell from your speech pattern that you're fairly laid back. Yeah. So. Alright, so I'm gonna pick through the rest of it a little bit. You play music?

Jim 7:07
Yeah. I started playing piano when I was probably five years old. We had an old piano down in the basement. And I would go down and play songs. I mean, not just plinking around, but actually with chords. And when I was eight, my dad said, if you take piano lessons for a year, I'll buy you a new piano. So he went out and bought the piano and I took lessons for I took private lessons for probably 10 years. And then I went to Michigan State University as a piano major. And unfortunately, that was the year that Michigan lowered the drinking age to 18. My my music major, and my college career didn't didn't pan out too. Well.

Scott Benner 8:06
I was gonna say, Jim did Meister Brau waylay your music career?

Jim 8:11
No, I think it was Old Milwaukee.

Scott Benner 8:15
Because, you know, it's funny as you're telling the story. I'm like, he goes, he's off to college for his music major, but he's a chemist, I think and that. None of that makes sense. So what did you wake up and reorient yourself?

Jim 8:29
Well, I took a I think I still planned on going back. Probably not to Michigan State because they weren't too happy with me. But But I took a summer job in a rubber factory. We were molding, like I said automotive parts. Started off on the press line actually doing manual labor, which was great for my diabetes, because I was getting, you know, strenuous exercise all day long. And I ended up staying there for eight years. And then I went back to college and got a chemistry degree.

Scott Benner 9:05
Wow. So something about the job made you want to do that.

Jim 9:11
It was a it was it paid better and was a lot easier than being a music teacher.

Scott Benner 9:20
Am I like the way you make all your decisions?

Jim 9:23
Yeah. All right. It gets even better than that. I was at a company in Indiana. I grew up in Michigan, but we lived in Indiana for 20 years. And I was at another company and I was always getting calls from headhunters. And this guy calls up and says I've got a job for you in this town in Indiana. Well in and this was in. This isn't the late 80s When I got this call. Well in 1978 I had gone to this as Auburn Indiana and every day Labor Day they do the Auburn cord Duesenberg Festival, which is a cars that they made and sold back in the 30s. And so I get this call about this job and the guy says it's in Auburn, Indiana. I said, that's the place with the cars had the a great job. And we went,

Scott Benner 10:19
sir Jim, your episode is gonna be called path of least resistance. I think

Jim 10:24
I know. Yeah. So I did. I did mention I'm a car guy. So

Scott Benner 10:28
what kind of cars do you enjoy?

Jim 10:32
Right now I'm in the muscle cars. I have a I have a 93 Mustang convertible. And then I also am working on my second 67 Pontiac GTO.

Scott Benner 10:46
Do you renovate them yourself? Or do you like to buy them ready to go?

Jim 10:50
No, I buy them as projects, and then I restore them. Okay. Are you and I told my wife, this is the last one I'm doing. For this, yeah.

Scott Benner 11:05
It's the work. That's that's the work. Yeah. Plus, as we know, you're not looking for a challenge.

Jim 11:10
No, not anymore.

Scott Benner 11:14
It's funny, you you said you started to say I told my wife as I was getting ready to say, are you married?

Jim 11:19
Yeah, I've been been married 41 years. We met at the first rubber factory I worked at. And there were people there who told her not to marry me. Because at the time I was, you know, the the quintessential hippie slash Bad Boy, you know, long hair and a beard. Little little bit into drugs and alcohol. They just told her to stay away from me. And we've been married 41 years now.

Scott Benner 11:51
Wow. What do you think? Did it Why do you think she ignored them?

Jim 11:57
I think it was probably, I'm sure it is, as it is, in most cases. It's a physical attraction to begin with. And that was incredibly strong with us. But she was also a Christian. And I saw something in her that made her different from all the other girls. And once I found out what it was I adopted that philosophy as well. And I think that's probably why we've been together for so long.

Scott Benner 12:33
What was that thing? Finding Jesus. Yeah, that that really appealed to?

Jim 12:41
Well, it didn't it first. And it didn't. It wasn't like an overnight change. It's it's a long process. And it's I think it's a lifelong process. And we went through some difficult times. And it was I think it was the only thing that saved us. And I'm not a you know, I'm not a holy roller. I'm not really outspoken about it. But, you know, I'll if someone you know, brings up the topic, I'm not afraid to discuss it.

Scott Benner 13:13
No, I mean, it's not why you're on but I'm, I'm just following the thread of the conversation. So were you looking for some constant in your life that you didn't have or what do you think it gave you

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Jim 16:25
it gave me peace and purpose. Which I didn't have before. And I don't know. I guess the piece that that you know, that was a pretty that time in my life. Let's see, we're going back to like 7879. I had been married before, got divorced. Well, we had a child and then we got divorced. And I was kind of floating around wasn't quite sure where I was going to go. played in a couple of bands. And we just we hit it off. And I think it was probably more than anything I may not have realized at the time, but I think it was just my my body or something was telling me. Dude, it's time to settle down.

Scott Benner 17:29
Jim in that in that time period when you talk about drugs, you talking about acid?

Jim 17:35
No, I never did acid It was mostly just marijuana. I did some cocaine, which I never really. It never really did anything for me. It was not a huge, you know, I only did it like two or three times. Mostly just marijuana.

Scott Benner 17:52
Okay. All right. So okay, so you have a previous marriage, but when you were very young, you weren't married very long.

Jim 18:01
Yeah, we got married when I was 22. And we were only married. Let's say we were married from 73 to I guess our divorce was final and 79.

Scott Benner 18:15
And one child, are you in touch with that job? Oh,

Jim 18:19
yeah. Yeah. We're still very close. He has three. I had three sons. He has three sons. And there's a huge story behind that because my, my dad had two sons. And like I said, I had three sons, my oldest son has three sons. My middle son had a son. So in our family, for 93 years, we had not had a girl born. And my youngest son in 19, or in 2018. Had the first girl in our family in 93 years. It's crazy. And then the next two kids were girls.

Scott Benner 19:08
Maybe maybe for the next 90 some years. It'll it'll just go that way.

Jim 19:12
Yeah, could be. But I tell people we didn't have any girls in our family for 100 years. Yeah, my wife says yeah, but you hardly had any people at all.

Scott Benner 19:21
You know, we realized recently that that my my parents bloodline and now pretty much because I'm adopted, so even though I have a son that name moves forward, but not not any connection to the to the family. And then my my brother has a daughter, and my other brother's children are his wife, his wife's their stepkids. So and I don't think they're gonna have more. And I was like, well, it's just sort of it and then it's funny. It felt like a big deal for a second and then I was like, yeah, it doesn't matter.

Jim 19:59
Yeah, Uh, well, I've got there's so many boys. I don't have to worry about our family.

Scott Benner 20:03
No kidding you people are gonna take well listen to you. Hopefully not, but it's possible in the coming decades, you're gonna be respond to this family is going to be responsible for an army of type one kids at some point. Oh, yeah,

Jim 20:18
I hope not. But you never know. Yeah,

Scott Benner 20:20
I mean, and if you're saying you go back that far and you can't find any auto immune, you really become an outlier in that situation.

Jim 20:26
Yeah, I definitely am. How do you figure out

Scott Benner 20:29
in the 1960s and the 1970s in the middle of you know, free love and everything else? And no real diabetes technology? How do you figure out how to take care of yourself? Like you are? You're healthy now? Is that correct?

Jim 20:44
Oh, yeah, yeah, no complications of any kind. I think it was just getting into a routine and doing what you need to do. Unfortunately, there was probably, I'm guessing it was probably not until sometime in the mid 80s. That I had kind of settled down and gotten into, you know, not eating as many things as I shouldn't have. And I'm just, I'm thankful that after having this disease for 55 years, I've got no retinopathy, no neuropathy. The only and the only other autoimmune I have is hypothyroid. So,

Scott Benner 21:41
Jim, it's almost ridiculous. I mean, I know. Now, you know, I'm thrilled for you. But it's almost just silly. What you're saying. So you managed for, like, around 20 years, not really paying very close attention to things. So what insulin are you using? In the beginning?

Jim 21:58
In the beginning, it was 45 units of lenti. Every day, one shot in the morning. That was it.

Scott Benner 22:03
That's all you did? Did you get low ever?

Jim 22:07
Very rarely. I only actually remember. I remember one day at work. This was probably in the late 70s, early 80s. I was at work, and I was trying to I was filing some papers. And I was putting them in folders in alphabetical order. And I couldn't do it. It was just, it's like I couldn't tell, you know, I had this thing with an AE on it. And I just couldn't figure out that it went in a folder. And this thing with a C on it went in the C folder. And my boss comes in. And he knew something was up. So he calls my wife. And he says add just get him a coke. He'll be fine. So

Scott Benner 23:02
and but that's but nothing. Wow. I mean, how do you? What's my question? Even? Do you think you just got lucky?

Jim 23:12
Well, you know, I don't believe in fate and luck and stuff like that. But yeah, I can't explain it. Now. I know that my my stepmom who I never called My stepmom she was my mom. She was great. We had a great relationship. She listened to what the doctor was saying about mostly about the diet. And back then it was the exchange diet. I think I was on 2700 calories a day. So it was like, you know, this many starches and this many fruits and this many vegetables and stuff like that. And she was she was good at sticking to that. And I think that would have had a better effect had I not been going off the deep end with you know, fruit pies and milkshakes and stuff like that.

Scott Benner 24:11
So the diet, the diet really only existed in the home.

Jim 24:15
Yeah, pretty much. Yeah. I mean, it was to the point where at night, I'd be practicing my clarinet in my bedroom. And I thought I could smell ammonia. And I finally realized years later that I was probably smelling the ketones oozing out of my pores.

Scott Benner 24:32
Jim, that's not a euphemism. You play the clarinet.

Jim 24:35
Yeah, I played in addition to piano. I started playing clarinet in sixth grade. But soon in, I don't know, eighth grade saxophone in ninth grade. And I think I think that's about it. I mean, I dabbled around on guitar and stuff like that, but never you It was mostly piano and wind instruments. And I've I currently play in the church, church orchestra. And I also belong to a local community band.

Scott Benner 25:10
Is it just come naturally to the music?

Jim 25:13
Yeah, yeah. It's I know that it's in, in anyone who's a successful musician. It's just a characteristic they've probably had from birth. And oddly enough, I think it's also accompanied by a very strong very strong math skills. Really, believe it or not, because music is very precise and rhythmic, and you have long notes and short notes, and they're all mathematically related. So you'll find I think you'll find that a lot of mathematicians and scientists are also musicians.

Scott Benner 26:02
And so that's, I guess, when you went back to college that that made all that easy as well.

Jim 26:08
Yeah, yeah. It would have except for the drinking age.

Scott Benner 26:13
I meant. I meant the second time, Jim.

Jim 26:16
Oh, the second time Yeah, yeah. No, no, the first

Scott Benner 26:19
time nothing helped you you write sounds like you almost got tossed out of there on your ass actually.

Jim 26:24
Yeah, pretty much. Yeah.

Scott Benner 26:27
So what did you tell me again, what your degree ended up being?

Jim 26:30
I got an associate's degree in chemistry, okay.

Scott Benner 26:34
And that propels you through a whole an entire career.

Jim 26:38
It actually, let's see, I took the first job in 72. I got my degree in. I didn't get my degree until 96. And then, I retired three years ago and 2019. So I was in the industry for 46 years.

Scott Benner 26:59
It is that a I'm going from how you were growing up until this, you started this career, do you? I mean, you met your wife there. So she didn't draw you to the place. You just just, I mean, you don't seem like the kind of the story doesn't propel itself towards I'm gonna get like a regular job and work in a rubber plant and, you know, make dashboards.

Jim 27:23
Yeah. Well, a friend of mine told me about this place, and I was looking for a summer job. So I went there and got in and it just took off from there. I started, like I said, I started off on the production line. They apparently the Forman noticed that I had more skills than just manual labor. So I ended up in the laboratory as the lab technician, and then ended up kind of just growing into a even though I had no degree, I was basically the chemist for the organization. So

Scott Benner 28:02
we're that's a story that won't exist anymore, huh? Yeah, yeah. You kind of bounced around as a younger person. And then get a job and based off of hard work and, and your intuition for the job, you moved up and raised a family and three kids off of an associate's degree. Yeah. And in your retirement, you have cars and free time and leisure and music and even playing musics not a cheap endeavor. So you through the years, we're buying instruments, and I'm imagining everything else. Yeah, that's, that might be a might be a time we all find ourselves missing at some point.

Jim 28:42
Yeah, I don't think it's like that anymore. So

Scott Benner 28:45
nine, my son left college and the pressure to like, find a job that paid well started, it felt like it started as they handed in the diploma, you know?

Jim 28:54
Yeah. And I've I've told young people over the years that going to college, and picking a degree without knowing whether it's something you really like to do dangerous is a huge mistake. I've often told people go out and work a bunch of places and figure out what it is you like, and then then decide what kind of degree you want.

Scott Benner 29:20
Jim a coffee is $8 How are they supposed to do that? They kind of get a job. I agree with you though. I thought. I felt like in the first 18 years of my first child's life. One of the strangest things I saw happen was him go to college and be like, This is what I'm gonna get a degree in, when he didn't know which way was up or what he cared about or anything like that. He just knew he knew what he was good at. But he didn't. He doesn't know what he likes or if he likes anything to be honest with you.

Jim 29:50
Yeah. And my youngest son did it right. He he was always interested in mechanical stuff. He and I worked on the cars together and He said I'm not going to college. And he picked out a trade school in Chicago. And now he is an ASE certified master mechanic with Land Rover.

Scott Benner 30:10
Okay, that's a that's a nice clean job nowadays being a mechanic.

Jim 30:15
Yeah, sorta

Scott Benner 30:17
little rolling computers that uh,

Jim 30:20
yeah. So he is he is currently re restoring my first 67 GTO. Oh, he can do it for you. Yeah. Well, he's doing that one and I'm working on the second one. Okay. And it's funny because my granddaughter. She calls me pop pop. And every time we talk about my son's GTO, she says, It's pop ups GTO.

Scott Benner 30:50
Jim all was left in the next however long we talked for his for you to say bang. So I can call this episode Pop Pop bang. Because right now, right now I'm stuck on Jim makes rubbers and stuff like that, which I don't think is appropriate. For.

Jim 31:07
Yeah. Jim met his wife in a rubber factory.

Scott Benner 31:10
Yeah, exactly. With all that rubber around on it, all those kids. Yeah.

Jim 31:16
Well, I guess the one related to diabetes. The one bang I've had in my life CGM. I mean, I'm sure other people have told you their stories. You know, I was drinking all the time peeing all the time losing weight, blah, blah, blah. You know, I had to do the urine tests, blah, blah, blah. There is kind of a funny story on how I got the pump therapy. I've been on pumps for 16 years now.

Scott Benner 31:48
16 years. Okay.

Jim 31:50
I was back in 2007. I don't know if they still even have these but you had health savings accounts or health care spending account?

Scott Benner 32:04
is what I used mine yesterday. They definitely have them. So well,

Jim 32:07
there were there was a different one that we had. Because because there's two choices. Now. Back in that day, if you didn't, if you had any money left in it at the end of the year, it was gone. Right? You didn't. You didn't get it. So I'm looking at my I kept pretty good track of it and in a spreadsheet. And I'm looking at it going, Oh, geez, I've got $1,000 left. If I don't use that I'm going to lose it. I think I'll go on an insulin pump. So I went to talk to my Endo. And he says, Yeah, I think you know, because I had a previous endo had told me that my control was so good. He says if you want to go on a pump, fine, but you're on MDI, you really don't. It's not going to make any difference. And it hasn't, as far as my, you know, agencies or anything like that. But I think it has, I think it has helped. And then when CGA CGM came out, that was like I said, that was a game changer.

Scott Benner 33:09
So tell me a little bit about you were on MDI for how long?

Jim 33:14
Um, let's see, I was on the single injection, probably until the late 80s. So 20 years. Wow. Right? And then in that, that 8990 range was when the human insulins were coming out. And he switched my endo switched me from the single shot to I think it was NPH in the morning and evening. And then at that time, it was human log, or humulus and humulus are right, at meal meals. Yeah. And then when human log came out, it was pretty much the same routine NPH in the morning, and evening and human log with meals.

Scott Benner 34:04
When do you slip into a Basal insulin?

Jim 34:07
I went, my first pump was in 2007. And it was the Medtronic 513 G. And that was, you know, that was a good, a good run, I thought. I mean, my agencies were always in the high fives, low sixes. But a couple of months ago, I pulled up some glucometer data, and in 2000 and this is on MDI. My average blood glucose was 150. But I was running 32% under 70 and 32% over 180 and only 30% in range. Yeah, well, there's even not. Um, so So as as you know, There's a fallacy to just looking at the A one C, right?

Scott Benner 35:03
Yeah, the you didn't have any kind of stability. So you were you were low for a long periods of time high for a long period of time. 150. And the average gave you an A one C, that seemed amazing, but probably was as good as Yeah, yeah.

Jim 35:16
And I think due to running low, so much, it didn't take that long to develop hypo unawareness, which I still have to this day.

Scott Benner 35:27
How low do you get before you know you are?

Jim 35:33
I'll get down to 37 and all fall down. That's the only way I know. I don't feel a thing. Wow. So then in 2017, I pulled up some more numbers. And things were better. Averages 121. I was only running 19%, low and 68% in range. So that was you know, halfway decent without having to CGM. Oh, the other the other stat on my first ones. My standard deviation was 87. And then in 2017, it dropped to 50. And then the last 90 days. Average is a little higher 136. But my standard deviation was 43. Only 3%, low 10%. High, and 84%. And range. And this is with this last 90 days, we've been traveling a lot. I would typically run 85 to 90%. Time and range. But like I said, we've been traveling, and that just kind of you know, I'm able to manage fairly well with it. But you still still get highs more than I like restaurant

Scott Benner 36:45
after restaurant sitting in a huge drop. Are you driving around right now or flying?

Jim 36:52
It? Well. It's a combination depending on we've got kids, my middle son and his wife and two, two kids are in California. My youngest son's in Illinois, and my oldest son's in Michigan. So we just we actually we just flew back yesterday from Michigan so

Scott Benner 37:12
well, well thank you. Actually Today's my birthday.

Jim 37:16
Is it happy birthday. Thank

Scott Benner 37:17
you very much. I only bring that up because people end up on the show all the time on their birthday and they bring it up and I was like I have to take I have to say when it's mine right. So when you when you went to a CGM was when

Jim 37:35
um let's see, I went on the G five and a tandem T slim and 2019 year I retired. Because I I guess my

I have I have recall issues. My other pump.

Scott Benner 37:57
The Medtronic

Jim 37:59
thanks. Expired expect the warranty expired in 2019, which was perfect timing. I did a lot of research looking at pumps and decided I want the teat one at the T slim even though I could only get the G five on Medicare at that time. The advantage to that was I had it all dialed in before I went on to G six and control IQ in 2020. So I had basically done all my Basal testing and everything at that time. And I frequently recommend to people on the web on the Facebook pages there to go on on control IQ. Do you have any advice for me and my advice is always get it dialed in before you turn control IQ on.

Scott Benner 38:44
Yeah, run it like a regular pump? Yeah. Yeah, it's tough because some people are, are hoping that that algorithm is going to save them from something they haven't been able to figure out so far. I wondered. Good, but I have a question. But the problem

Jim 38:59
I see with that is it's kind of like driving a car that you have an erotic that erratic speedometer. Yeah. You know, it reads high. So you're compensating for that. Well, then the next day, it reads a low so you're compensating for that? Well, your pup is compensating for things that are happening because your settings aren't right.

Scott Benner 39:27
Yeah, no, it's everything is settings. Jim, like, you know, I'm gonna say that forever. So what was what was my question? Oh, was it a huge shift? Going to a CGM and a pump versus just a pump versus just MDI? Like, was there ever a spot where you thought, I can't? I can't adapt to this or have you always been interested in moving forward with things?

Jim 39:56
No, I've always been Technology addict, so, okay. And I, I guess that's one thing that I'm typically not a compassionate person. But I do feel for the people who just don't have strong math and scientific skills. I mean, let's face it not everyone's a mathematician. And I can't imagine being diagnosed today. And the doctor saying, Here's a pump, and here's CGM. Go for it. It would have to be so overwhelming.

Scott Benner 40:39
Yeah. Don't you think that that's part of what we're seeing with? Like Omnipod? Five control IQ, that kind of thing? Doesn't it seem like they're trying to develop something that if you don't know much about it, you can still have more stability at a lower number than you're going to achieve on your own?

Jim 41:01
Oh, yeah, I'm sure of it. Yeah.

Scott Benner 41:04
Yeah, it does seem to me like what they're trying for me, because I get lost sometimes in the podcast, to where I'm very accustomed to being around people who are super motivated and either get it right away, or if they don't get it really nose to the grindstone, find a way to figure it out. Whereas I believe that it's possible that the, you know, the great majority of the rest of the people don't fall into those categories. And they might they might just be bouncing around their whole life and, and not knowing.

Jim 41:34
Right, yeah. And, and I think you see it in the Facebook posts. You know, people just I've had this disease for so many years, and I just can't control it. And I do feel for those people.

Scott Benner 41:49
You know, for the first time in forever, I mean, honestly, I've been doing this a really long time. No one's ever yelled at me. I got yelled at the other night, it really Yeah. And a Facebook post by but and I saw what was happening. So I didn't find it to be off putting. But here's what this person probably meant, not what they said. I think what they meant was, I can't figure this out. I need you to tell me. And I, of course, was trying to help them figure it out. And they just kind of, I don't even know how to put what happened. They just sort of we were in the middle of talking about something and they just turned on me. And you know, you're not helpful. This isn't helpful. Like I was trying to ask leading questions. I thought we were having a dialogue. I didn't realize I didn't realize that I was speaking with a person who probably was at wit's end. Yeah, you know, and feeling a ton of pressure. He was about a child about a younger child, like I understood. I mean, I completely understood and I tried really hard to like say, Hey, listen, I think we're just having a communication problem here. But the truth is, I, from my perspective, what was happening was, they were just, they couldn't take it anymore. They were up to like, somebody needs to tell me what to do. Because I don't know what to do. And that I think is your point is that those people are, you know, they're plentiful, and it's, um, it's a shame, you know, he said something strange. You threw me off, you're not normally compassionate.

Jim 43:21
Well, yeah, like I mentioned earlier, you know, when my mother died, and my dad died, and my stepmother died, I, you know, I wasn't hugely affected now, my mom. I think I was more affected by her than my actual biological mother. Because, I mean, let's face it, I was only six years old. That's pretty young. But when my when my mom died, she had she had been an executive secretary Ford, both her and my dad worked at Ford. And they met after my mother died. And she contracted Alzheimer's. And having known that she was an executive secretary at Ford Motor Company. She was a gourmet cook. She worked in offices. She was I mean, she was smart. And to see her reduced to what she was, you know, before she died. Was was hard. It was actually seeing her deteriorate. It was harder on me than her death was. Because I think by the time she died, she was I mean, she was done with it. Finally,

Scott Benner 44:48
do you feel like you've like, walled yourself off from those feelings?

Jim 44:54
Yeah, I don't know. I I've never I've never Put any I've never tried to do any, you know, soul searching about it or never seen a psychiatrist or anything like that you're

Scott Benner 45:07
from the wrong generation for that question. I just thought I would ask it. I got I got up the next day and I paid my bills. Yeah. Well, well, but it's interesting. Hey, listen, you don't, you don't lean in that direction. But I'm still gonna ask the question because of your older brother. Do you have any, like, tendencies towards spectrum stuff? I'm not sure what you mean, Autism Spectrum stuff? Or like, Do you have any leanings that way?

Jim 45:39
I suppose in a minor sense, because as a child, I was perfectly content playing by myself. I mean, I had, I had a lot of friends. And I was popular in school. But when I was younger, you know, I could sit in the basement hours for hours by myself playing with my Legos, and stuff like that. I didn't need anyone. But I wasn't. You know, I like I said, I had friends. We played, you know, we did stuff. So I suppose you know, there is I've always been kind of a loner. But but at the same time, you get a party going and I can be the life of the party.

Scott Benner 46:27
I took it. I took that from the beginning of your story. Yeah.

Jim 46:31
I guess I guess I'm kind of schizophrenic.

Scott Benner 46:34
Jim, I think you're one joint away from just going crazy right now.

Jim 46:37
Yeah. Hey, it's not legal down here. So

Scott Benner 46:42
Oh, okay. I was gonna ask you, if you still partake once in a while.

Jim 46:46
I did one of my kids, bachelor parties. And it slipped out. My wife heard about it. And she was not too happy with me.

Scott Benner 46:56
I didn't think she did. I was just checking on you

Jim 47:00
know, she doesn't know. Didn't?

Scott Benner 47:03
That's, uh, that's pretty interesting. What else do I have here for you? I did want to ask you about your wife wanted to ask if if she has any involvement with your diabetes at all.

Jim 47:11
I'm very little actually. I mean, I've been self managed for so long. She knows that I know how to take care of it. She can tell when I'm alone. Well, she used to be able to tell when I'm low. But I have my low limit on my Dexcom set or not on the Dexcom. But on my pump. I've got my low limits set at 100. So I get advanced warning when I start to go low. And she's I mean, she's she's pretty hands off, but she's aware of it. So

Scott Benner 47:46
is that a number that has increased as you've gotten older? Is that always been where you like to treat?

Jim 47:53
Well, yeah, that's a tough one because I don't think it was until till I got the CGM and 2019. That I really knew where I was because like I said, I had developed hypo unawareness so long ago, that you know, I like I said, I was out mowing the yard one day. And I really literally my legs went out from under me. So I was able to make my way into the house and checked on my glucometer. I was 37. And that happened at work wants to my legs went out from under me and it was exactly 37. So I know that if I fall down, I'm at 37.

Scott Benner 48:40
Has that happened since you've had a CGM?

Jim 48:43
No, it has not. No, that's a big change. I mean, I've had I've had lows, but because what a lot of times when I'm working on the car, it's physical, labor, turning wrenches. And I'll frequently turn my basil completely off when I go downstairs to work on the car, and then I have to set an alarm to make sure I turn it back on later in the day.

Scott Benner 49:06
Yeah, they say Jim Temp Basal off is the way to go. So you can't forget to put it back on. Avoid your DKA that way.

Jim 49:13
Yeah, well, I haven't been in DKA. Since I think the last one I had was in 19. I'm assuming it's going to be 1981 Based on the house I was living in. And I didn't even go to the hospital for that. I knew what was going on. I went to the pharmacy got a bottle a regular insulin, just you know, gave myself probably like 10 units or something like that. But I had been hospitalized for DKA three times. From probably in the early 70s I would say yeah, I buy nonsense then

Scott Benner 49:58
go As you're harkening back to earlier management ways that you know, and obviously you were doing what you were told. And I asked you earlier, you're healthy, right? You don't have anything you said, No, I'm good. But then you said later, you have brain fog you have you have trouble recalling things sometimes.

Jim 50:14
Yeah, I just had my, the when you're on Medicare, they give you an annual. It's not a physical Well, yeah, I guess it's a physical, but they also do a memory test. And I aced the memory test every time. But I told the doc I said this, and this is my PCP, not my Endo. He says, Well, you don't have any memory issues, you have recall issues. He said, the data is there, you just can't find it. So I'm not sure what that means. But it's it's particularly it's the worst with people's names. People I've known for 20 years, you know, it'll take and then their name will just come to me later on.

Scott Benner 50:57
looking them in the face or, or, or thinking of them, whatever. You just can't find the name sometimes.

Jim 51:02
Right? Yeah. Was that he didn't seem concerned about it. So I'm not sure it's not happened

Scott Benner 51:07
to him. Yeah. Good. Well, I, there's a, it's, I've said it here before. So it's not that much of a secret. But I'm just good at, at, at moving. So whenever I can't find a word, I just find a different one. But it happens to be on the podcast constantly. I'm just I talk so quickly, you can't see it happening usually, where I find a way to like artfully pause while I collect myself. And if I if I really get caught, then you know, I'll just admit to it while I'm talking about I cannot think of what I was thinking of just now. Part of I you know, I'm I'm 51 today. So I mean, that's not young, it's not old. And I've had problems with my iron being low in the past. So I'm not certain because the iron thing just like, it knocks you out. Like it's like, it's like being on a dimmer switch and somebody just shutting you off. Right. So, but but I know what you're talking about. I've had that experience we all have. I've watched it happen to my wife recently. She you know, she's getting older and the kids are like, she can't think of her word. And I'm like, you know, you only have like, 25 years before this happens to you. So just be a little. Yeah, that's interesting. It really, Jim. Yeah.

Jim 52:21
Like I said, it's worst with names. That's the big the big thing. And I actually read somewhere. I saw it on the internet. So it has to be true, that it's a there's actually a condition for this thing about not being able to remember people's names. Or recall, I'm sorry, recall their names. Yeah.

Scott Benner 52:42
I'm terrible with names, but I always have been. And, you know, it's not because I don't care about people. I just, I don't know, like, I can't remember people's names like in Titan my life I can. But you know, you get slightly outside of my bubble. And I'm like, I remember, you start telling stories around them. Like you even said, like, I remember what house I was in, like, like you can remember all that stuff. And not the one piece, I have to tell you, I find talking to you incredibly interesting because your life goes against conventional a little bit. And, you know, in a number of different ways. And it's interesting to look back at it as a whole. I find it super interesting to hear somebody talking about like, you know, I was married in my early 20s for a number of years, and I have a child. But then, you know, and I went to college once but then I went back to get an associate's degree, I had this job here, I met a person at the job. It's very interesting to hear it to hear it all in one place. I don't I don't know why exactly. Other than I think most people expect, you know, nowadays, it's, I'm gonna grow up, I'm gonna go to school, I'll meet a person, I'll marry that person. Everybody thinks that's gonna last forever, we'll have a bunch of kids as kids will become astronauts and quarterbacks and the President? Well, well, you know, I don't know how awesome that is anymore. But but you know, like, like, in these big things. And it's just, they realized the other night, I was taking out the trash where I do a lot of my best thinking, walking to the end of the street. And it's the only time I'm alone, like, during the week, and I just thought, you know, my expectations for things versus how they went. You really get a different perspective as you get older. Sure, yeah. All the things you think, in your 20s and 30s, while you have a young family is it's all hope it's not. It's not it's not based in much reality. And for the people who you know, for the people who get to the end, and it went exactly the way they thought it was going to go. I think that's a fluke. Maybe more than, than anything else.

Jim 54:49
Yeah. And I mean, I think this is one of those things that kind of goes back to another era. You know, my dad was a He was born in 1923. He spent he was a volunteer on B seven teams in World War Two, got shot down on his second mission and spent two years in a German prisoner of war camp, came back to the US, went to college on the GI Bill, and became an engineer and finished out his career at Ford Motor Company. I mean, he had a plan and he stuck to it. People don't do that anymore. I didn't even do it. Now, Jim,

Scott Benner 55:31
you're you blow in the wind like that thing. Our dealership? Yeah, pretty much you're like, you're like, weed? Beer? Yeah, no, Jesus, I don't care. Put it in front of me. I'll follow it.

Jim 55:48
I just go with the flow. You know, you really do. But so

Scott Benner 55:53
even with the diabetes, if you didn't fight against the changes, you took the time to relearn. I'm a big fan of that. And yeah, you know, you could have got stuck somewhere and been like, Screw it. I'm just gonna do it like this.

Jim 56:07
Yeah, well talk about memory. I'm the odd one of the odd things, I think. Because when I was diagnosed, it it didn't, you know, I was like, Okay, I got to do this. Let's move on with life. I can still clearly remember the doctor coming into the examination room and telling me I had diabetes. I can picture it plain as day almost like a motion picture. And what I find so odd about that is why do I remember that? Because I don't remember it having much of an effect on me at all. You know, a couple days later, I was in the hospital for a week while they got things straightened out. And

Scott Benner 56:55
that was it. That was it just went do what you're supposed to do.

Jim 56:58
Yeah, you know, for all the changes. All the weird tracks I've taken in my life. I've always been kind of a compliant. Person, except my wife accuses me of being passive aggressive.

Scott Benner 57:15
Yes, I'm sure you're terrible. Horrible, horrible person. Yes. The way you've stayed there and raised three children for 41 years. Yeah, stop smoking your weed when you were told. So? Yeah, you just don't

Jim 57:31
know, a poor listener. But yeah, I've had I've done a few other things in my life, too. Let's see in 1984. I hiked by myself into and out of the Grand Canyon, spent a week down in there. And that was when I was on the one shot a day prep, which I probably cut in half because of the, you know, the hiking exertion. But that was a fantastic trip. And in 2014, I had open heart surgery to fix my mitral valve, which I'd had, I'd had a heart murmur since I was a kid. And the doctors always told me, you'll probably have to get that fixed someday. And when I went in for I went in for an echocardiogram every year. And I'd always positioned myself so I could watch it on the screen. And I could see that, okay, this thing is not looking good now. And then about a month after that, I started getting short of breath and told my wife, Okay, it's time I told him at work. I said, I've got to go in for open heart surgery. So I'll be I'll be off for about a month and survived that. It really, I mean, looking back on it yet. It was pretty painful for a few days. But all in all, you know, it's it's still holding in there. So that was what, eight years ago.

Scott Benner 59:07
difficult recovery?

Jim 59:11
No, actually, the only thing that bothered me. And I don't recall what my blood sugar's were doing at the time, so they probably weren't too bad. I was on the Medtronic pump at that time. So I mean, they probably ran high for a while. I know they had me on an insulin drip in the hospital. And I'm not sure how many units per hour I was getting, but it was probably a pretty hefty dose. The worst thing about it was I had to cough to make sure I was getting any junk out of my lungs. And that hurt and that hurt. And I remember the first time I sneezed I was convinced my heart my chest was going to explode. load, you know, I was gonna break open and you know, my lungs were gonna spray over here and there was gonna be blood all over the plant bathroom but didn't happen. I didn't know that I was wired shut, so I couldn't explode. So

Scott Benner 1:00:13
well, that's really crazy. I'm feeling like there's a lot more that's happened to you that we're never gonna get.

Jim 1:00:19
I guess. That's all the major stuff. But I mean, the things. I've got a list here of everything. I wanted to talk about how we got one. We're almost done. Cool.

Scott Benner 1:00:33
I'm doing all right.

Jim 1:00:34
And I think we've mostly talked about the one the one section I have labeled what I don't have. And we already talked about most of that, you know, complications. I don't have any complications. I don't feel highs or lows. I don't have as many highs or lows. But, you know, I still hit that occasional 300 Because I didn't call us right for meal, eating out or something like that. But I, you know, I 303 50 I don't feel the same.

Scott Benner 1:01:04
You just don't know. There's no, this is real.

Jim 1:01:07
Yeah, I feel perfectly fine. I have never felt other than the initial lows that I felt very early on. I don't feel a thing. I don't feel so. You know, I mean, obviously, when you're in DKA, or, you know, puking your guts out, but and then the the whole other thing about no one in my family with tea, Wendy is is kind of weird.

Unknown Speaker 1:01:33
No, it is.

Jim 1:01:35
The other thing I have listed here is horror stories. And that's not not for me. But for things I've heard and seen over the years. I remember being in my, the endos office, the one that got me started on the pump. And I gotta say he was the best endo I ever had. Because he was a type one on pump therapy. He understood he knew what was going on. You know, he's the only one I've ever had, that really had an intimate knowledge of diabetes. But I was in his in his examination room one day. And the walls weren't very soundproof. And he was in the room next to me. And there was an older fellow who I assume was a type two. He walks in and says, Well, you're a one C was 11. And the guy says, Oh, is that bad? And I'm like, Oh, dude, you're killing yourself. And I mean, I laughed at it at the I don't know that I laughed at it at the time, because obviously, it's not funny. But I had another endo Tell me about a patient of his, who was a young college educated woman who simply refused to take care of her diabetes. She was in a wheelchair by the time she was in her mid 20s. And I'm just cash. It's so sad, you know, and me being a totally uncompassionate person, you know, to feel for someone you know. But and then, this was I think, in the early, probably the mid 80s. My wife and I were canoeing on a small river near where we lived. And fellow she worked with and her husband or his wife. We ran into them on the river, not literally ran into him, but he was type one, and he was having a low. And turns out that when he was diagnosed, his parents refused to admit that there was anything wrong, because he looked fine. There's nothing wrong with him. He was already in his mid 20s Suffering from retinopathy. But the worst, the worst, one of all was a good, a good friend of my wife, her. They were never married, but her boyfriend for years, was a type one. He had had both legs amputated. He was pretty much blind. He went into kidney failure, and he died and all as a result of type one. So, you know, like I said, I don't consider I don't particularly particularly believe in luck or fate. But I guess I have to say I've been pretty lucky. Ya

Scott Benner 1:04:39
know, I don't know another way to think about it. When the when the technology the understanding is where it was in the 60s and the 70s, the 80s and part of the 90s. You know, to make it as far as you have as well as you have is there's a little bit of it doesn't matter what you call it, right but but whatever it is, Is it's there? Because like you said, look at all the other stories you have, you know, just from being in the in the office or meeting people, you know, along along the way. Was there any kind of community aspect to diabetes like like the way you describe yourself? Like, it's interesting to me that you know, this podcast or that you're involved in the Facebook group, because it doesn't seem like you would be but you are?

Jim 1:05:27
Well, I think it was probably after I got on the CGM and the tandem T slim, and control IQ. And probably it may have started when I was researching what pump I want it to go on. I started looking up Facebook pages and found found the the tandem T slim page on there was a group 30 years with type one diabetes. Adults with T one D. And then I didn't see that the Juicebox Podcast until just probably within the last year. Someone on one of the pages mentioned, I listened to this podcast and it was really good. And I'm juicebox What the heck is that? So I looked it up and listened to a couple episodes and then I saw the pro tips. So I listened to all of those and then I've gone through the list. I haven't listened to all of them. I probably listened to maybe a third of them. I usually go by the titles. Oh, this one looks interesting. But I have to admit I've gotten some good tips. I think the best one was it might have been one of the pro tips was bumping nudge. Yeah. That that was good. And then the the other one about the the CIQ ninja, the guy whose son? Yeah, was that great? Yeah, that was a good one. And this morning this morning, I just listened to the the older lady who was diagnosed at like 49 I think it was number 714. They see Scott Scott made a Scott messed up. Yeah, it's got messed up. I enjoyed that one. I do like listening to other people and just hearing their experiences. But the weird. Another weird thing about my experience with T one D is I have met in 55 years I have met so few people with type one. I have never actually seen another person. I've never run into another person with an insulin pump. Really in person. Yeah, ever. But you

Scott Benner 1:07:57
met in five years. But you did see a type one on a river once that's gotta count for like fit. Yeah, different.

Jim 1:08:04
Yeah, but my wife knew him. And she told me he was diabetic so and the odd. There were two guys that I worked with. At the last company I retired from there were two guys who were T Wendy's. And they never talked about it. I never would have known it except for one of the guys saw my pump. Because he thought it was a pager. I said no, it's an insulin pump. And it turns so he and I hit it off pretty well. And I haven't heard from him for a while I need to contact him. But he was he was on the one of the later Medtronic pumps with The Guardian sensor, I think the 617 or something like that.

Scott Benner 1:08:47
Yeah, I don't know all those Medtronic pumps for sure. Of which there are many. So there's you like this, you like being around other people who have diabetes?

Jim 1:09:00
Yeah, um, I, in the I guess I've been on the Facebook pages for a few years. And I was giving a lot of advice to people who are newly diagnosed there having this issue with the pump. And I think I probably gave more advice than I got. But there were still some valuable things I picked up. And I Yeah, so I started my own Facebook page. Because there was one out there with 30 years with type one diabetes, and I said, well 30 I got that skill. 50. Let's go 50. So I started a Facebook page called 50 years with type one diabetes. And it's interesting because I've got like 60 I haven't looked at recently but about at least 62 members last time I looked and I'm the only one that posts anything. I might not always get a lot of comments when I do post something But no one volunteers anything. I think they're just like, Yeah, you know, I've had this for so long. It's just a way of life. I got nothing to post. So

Scott Benner 1:10:08
I also think that's a generational thing. I don't think people in their 60s are, are looking to, generally speaking be part of the social media movement. Yeah. It's hard to get people to share things. I have an incredibly tough time getting type twos to share. So I try, I try and I try and every once in a while you get one who's terrific, but it's not as many people as I hoped for. Yeah, your group has 75 members in it right now, Jim? Okay. All right. Well, that's excellent. 50 years with type one diabetes in the 50s. Five hours that correct? Yeah, yeah. Very nice. My group gets 300 new members a week. Yeah. And it's not something I expected. To be perfectly honest. Most of this is not something I expected that someone would tell you that, you know, I listened to a podcast, it still freaks me out. Or when someone you know, when people come in, they answer a question about how did you find out, and I read through every one of them that pops up in front of me. And I'm, I'm just stunned, you know, how and how it's sort of permeated and spread? I just never. I mean, I hoped but I didn't. I didn't really expect it to. Sure.

Jim 1:11:21
Yeah. Well, there are so many parents out there with children with t 1d. And that that's another group that I really feel for because it's, you know, it's hard enough to manage this thing by yourself, but managing it for someone else. Well, you know, it's hard because Arden you know, it's gotta be, it's gotta take a toll on you.

Scott Benner 1:11:47
Yeah, my wife, who doesn't she's pretty stoic, most of the time about stuff like this. But the other day, she said to me, we're, you know, we're getting older, we're not like, you know, we're not, we're not drifting, it's not over or anything like that. But she said, I just didn't think there'd be so many roadblocks. And I said, No, I didn't either. And it's tiring. And if you don't have the support you need from people and you don't have the support you need financially and, you know, health insurance wise, and your earlier point, you just kind of don't have the wherewithal to think it through, you know, and, and be ready to get it wrong and try again. And, you know, sometimes, you know, talk like you're talking about go with the flow, and sometimes, you know, have to stand up and push back. It's, it's more than you expect, you know, you're you're in your 20s and your 30s. And you're having kids and you think like, Oh, this one's my astronaut, and this one's gonna be a prince, and this one's gonna be this and you don't think that you know, 25 years later, you're still going to be on the internet trying to figure out why somebody's leg hurts, or Yeah, you know, what? That kind of stuff. It's just this autoimmune stuff is that sucks.

Jim 1:13:04
Yeah, yeah. Well, like I said, it's been a part of my life for so long that it's just, it's just, it's just there. You know?

Scott Benner 1:13:12
What's your, um, your early grooming was, I got captured by the, by the Nazis. And here I am. I'm back. So I don't imagine there's like given up in you.

Jim 1:13:24
Well, I guess that I probably inherited that from my dad, you know, he's, for him. You know, spending two years in prison camp and World War Two was, you know, he's, he said at one. From one standpoint, it was the scariest time of his life. But it was also the most glamorous time of his life because he was a hero back home and he's still like, he is a hero to me. You know,

Scott Benner 1:13:48
he knew that even when he was in, in the prisoner camp. He knew that that it like the knowledge that he was there and not giving up was, was uplifting to other people. Yeah, yeah,

Jim 1:14:00
I think so. Plus, how

Scott Benner 1:14:02
the hell do you complain, Jim? Like, right, like once, like, you know, my tires flat and he's like, Nazis, leave me alone. Let me know when you let me know when they lock you up in a prisoner of war camp and tell them go clean your room. You're like, all right. I guess he's got Well,

Jim 1:14:18
yeah. Well, all that plus having grown up during the Depression, sure, sure. So he'd been through it.

Scott Benner 1:14:26
No kidding. How old was he when he passed?

Jim 1:14:28
He was 87. That's a full life. Yeah. Yeah, he got a full full honors military. funeral. It was. It was very moving. I almost I almost teared up just thinking about it because it was it's like wow, 21 gun salute and everything.

Scott Benner 1:14:52
making you cry sounds difficult. So it

Jim 1:14:55
well, you know, not as difficult as it seems because I cry more to tears of joy than anything else.

Scott Benner 1:15:02
I had 20 minutes while I was by myself last night where I was doing laundry. And I found myself thinking of a memory of one of my kids and I made myself cry by myself. Yeah, yeah, it's,

Jim 1:15:12
well, I mean, we were my, let's see this, it'd be my wife's. No, my daughter in law's father does a church in his house. And we, usually when we're up there, if we're up there on a Sunday, we'll, we'll go, and it's very informal. And we were, we were singing a couple of hymns. And one of them was talking about something about a newborn baby. And we had two that were due within weeks. And I just, I just busted out in tears. It was, it was crazy.

Scott Benner 1:15:52
I think it's good for you, Jim. I really do. It's, it's a, I found myself just thinking about. I mean, my son's 22. He's still here. He just finished college. And I kept I keep thinking he's gonna leave. You know, I don't know when it's going to be. And what am I going to say to him before he goes, and I realized that the thing I always really want to say to him in tough situations, I never say because it's, it's not it's not valuable for him to hear when he's trying to make his way or be confident or things like that. You know what I mean? Like, there's the part you see the part you say, and there's the part you don't say? And I thought boy, before he leaves, like, how am I going to stop myself from saying, you know, please don't go. Yeah, I can't. I think I'm gonna have to say it. Because I don't know how I'm gonna hold it in. And yeah, because all the other times you know, you're, you know, something tough happens to them and, and you want to, you want to be like, Look, I know this sucks and everything and you should give up. But you don't you know, you don't say that. You say, Keep fighting in your mind. You think I don't think this is going to work out. But I think there's more value in him trying and failing than there is in him. Just walking away from it. He doesn't need to hear from me. This isn't gonna work. Yeah. I don't know how I'm going to tell him. You know, just I'm gonna miss you. It doesn't seem like enough. Yeah, well, anyway,

Jim 1:17:22
when my dad dropped me off at college, I basically got out of the car with my suitcases. And he said, by

Scott Benner 1:17:30
dollar Jerry, get your gym.

Jim 1:17:34
Watch out for the Nazis.

Scott Benner 1:17:36
Listen, if they throw those big grenades at you, you've got time to throw them back. Don't worry. Gotta go?

Jim 1:17:44
Yeah, pretty much.

Scott Benner 1:17:46
Well, that's interesting. Jim, you've had a hell of a life out. I appreciate you sharing it with me very much. Well, I

Jim 1:17:52
appreciate talking to you about it. It was good.

Scott Benner 1:17:54
No, it was the eight. Did you have a good time? Yeah, yeah. Fun. Good. Good. I'm glad I really am. I mean, I don't want to wish you luck, because I don't think you I think you believe in it.

Jim 1:18:07
Well, you know, whatever it is. I'll, I'll keep it.

Scott Benner 1:18:10
Ya know, I hope you stay on the path you're on. I hope. I hope you continue on like this. It's a it's really an uplifting story. Congratulate.

Jim 1:18:19
Yeah, I have to continue because my kids want to kidnap me and 2040 to take me to the 1,000th anniversary of a brewery in Germany. So 2040 Yeah, I'll be 87

Scott Benner 1:18:31
I don't have a ton of confidence. I'm going to be alive in 20.

Jim 1:18:35
Well, I told him, I told him You do realize that's beyond my life expectancy.

Scott Benner 1:18:40
Why don't we go earlier? And you just tell me it's the anniversary? Yeah. Well, I hope I hope to see pictures of your brewery trip. Okay. Put them on, put them on whatever magical thing exists in the future where we, you know, right. It's really something it's so cool. It's so cool to talk to somebody who's kept up with things the way you have and, and I am definitely calling your episode go with the flow. Okay. That's what I figured out while we were talking. Yeah. All right. Cool. Right, man. Have a great day. Hold on for me for one second. Okay. Of course, I want to thank Jim for coming on the show and sharing his story. And then I'd like to thank touched by type one and remind you to go to touched by type one.org. And thank ag one and remind you to go to athletic greens.com forward slash juice box. Of course you can get 35% off your entire order at cozy earth.com With offer code juice box, and 10% off your first month of therapy@betterhelp.com When you go to betterhelp.com forward slash juicebox. I hope you enjoyed this episode of the podcast. I'll be back very soon with another