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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 833 of the Juicebox Podcast.

This episode is very interesting. 18 year old Catherine and I are having a conversation. She's talking about how it's going with her diabetes. And then suddenly something strikes me as being not quite right. And we begin to talk about the management of her type one and how she's using insulin. Before you know it, Catherine and I are texting each other, trying to get things straight. And then she comes back on the show. Anyway, it's very, it's not it's not as confusing as I'm making it sound she came on. Something sounded wonky. We talked it through on the podcast. Then I chatted with her infrequently for a couple of days by text message, and then she came back on the show to tell me how it went. Anyway, that's what I should just said the first time. Also, I should have said that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast is considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan are becoming bold with insulin. And don't forget, please go to T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juice box, fill out that survey. It takes fewer than 10 minutes. It helps diabetes research. And you can be a big part of it right from your sofa, T one D exchange.org forward slash juicebox. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by Omni pod. And Omni pod makes the Omni pod five and the Omni pod dash. I'll tell you more about each of them in the ad. But for now all you need to know is Omni pod.com forward slash juice box. That's where you go to get started right now with the tubeless insulin pump that my daughter has been wearing since she was four years old. The podcast is also sponsored today by us Med and US med is the place where Arden gets her diabetes supplies. And you could to get your free benefits check right now at 888-721-1514. Or you can always go to us med.com forward slash juicebox. Get your diabetes supplies the way we do.

Katherine 2:29
I'm Katherine and I've been a type one diabetic since February 22 2021. And I live in Connecticut.

Scott Benner 2:36
Wow. Just a year and a month almost. Yep. Katherine, are you 12 years old or are you just have a very young voice?

Katherine 2:44
I must have a very young voice. I'm 18. Okay,

Scott Benner 2:47
well, okay. 18 is young. Don't worry. But still, you sound like you're younger, even so I was like, Oh, I sometimes you know, I don't read the notes. Catherine. I don't really know what I'm doing when we sit down. Yeah, I'm just sort of like, yesterday, I recorded with somebody who's been on the show before, did an amazing job. I really enjoyed talking to them. And we're six minutes into it. And I'm like, I think I know this person. So we figured it out as we were going and I was so I was actually very embarrassed. And I said to her I was like Maddie, I feel like we met at the mall. And I knew everything about you except your name. And I was standing there having that conversation where you're like, oh my god, it's you. And then you walk away and say to your like the person with you like Who was that? They're like, it's Scott. You go. Ah, I couldn't think of the name. Anyway. 18 diagnosed a year ago. 17 Have you even left for college yet?

Katherine 3:42
Not? Yeah, I'm a senior in high school. Wow. Wow. When do you graduate? Like any day? Yeah, June, June 10.

Scott Benner 3:49
No kidding. Congratulations. I mean, yeah. Are you gonna graduate? Yes. And congratulations. I have to go to summer school. Scott. I need three more credits. Do you are you planning on going to college?

Katherine 4:04
Uh, yes. I'm gonna be I'm gonna study for elementary education.

Scott Benner 4:07
Oh, that's lovely. Was that always your plan? Yeah,

Katherine 4:11
since I was pi, seven,

Scott Benner 4:13
gotcha. has diabetes changed anything about your college plans? Or?

Katherine 4:19
I'm a little bit I'm still living away from home. But I chose a very close college. So if there are any problems I can commute and call my parents if I need them.

Scott Benner 4:30
And that wasn't the plan originally. No, not originally. Were How far away were you gonna go? Do you think?

Katherine 4:39
I, you know, I was really sky's the limit. Hawaii, California. Probably like mass or New York.

Scott Benner 4:47
Okay. Are you in that area? Like in the Northeast?

Katherine 4:51
Yeah, I'm in Connecticut.

Scott Benner 4:52
Okay. I'm sorry. You said that. I'm sorry. I'm trying to wipe off my whiteboard. So I can write things down that I need to forget it. That's okay. So much graffiti here from art and just making fun of me Hold on a second. She comes in here and writes insulting things. To me, when I'm not looking at that I come sit down. I can't even tell you the one thing I'm looking at right now it's, it's completely inappropriate. Well, you and my daughter are pretty much the exact same age and the exact same situation in life. But as far as diabetes goes, your different ends of the spectrum and she's been at it forever Arden's going all the way to Georgia, from New Jersey. Wow. Yeah. And, but if she just got diabetes a year ago, I don't think I'd have the nerve for that. Maybe? Not sure. Yeah. What technology do you have?

Katherine 5:44
So I have a FreeStyle Libre, two sensor. And I also started an omni pod in December.

Scott Benner 5:51
How are you liking that? I love it. How about the libre? How's the libre?

Katherine 5:57
Um, it's good. I chose it. Because it's circular and round. And I dance a lot. So I rolling on the floor every day. So it was something that I could like, easily move in.

Scott Benner 6:09
Have you recently seen the image of the new Dexcom? g7? That'll be out soon?

Katherine 6:13
I have my dad sent it to me. Yeah,

Scott Benner 6:16
it's pretty much the same. It's small. Yeah, it's

Katherine 6:18
awesome. Flat. It's

Scott Benner 6:19
gonna be cool. But anyway, I mean, whatever works is what works. And I think that's the best. You know, anything that makes your life easier that fits in your life or your budget or whatever? Is? is excellent. I don't Yeah, I would never want people to think you know, like, Dexcom is a sponsor of the show. And they have been forever and Arden's used it forever. But that doesn't make me think that you shouldn't be using something else. You know what I mean? I think I think it's very important to take advantage of technology with diabetes. So let's go back to when you were diagnosed for a second. How did that how did it happen?

Katherine 6:53
So I was just having really bad symptoms. For around nine months, I was extremely exhausted, like, I couldn't, I couldn't get off the couch. I was super, super thirsty, which would come and go. So I didn't think it was a problem. And I would have just like really weird stomach pains. And I just I didn't really know what was going on. So I had a yearly checkup. And I had lost a ton of weight. And they were like, alright, well, we'll do some blood tests. But maybe it's your like nutrition because I I've always had like very healthy foods, and I've been into health a lot. So they're like, oh, it's probably your nutrition. So we'll do some blood tests. And, you know, see, see what happens. And then I got a call. No, like, I need to go to the hospital. Your blood sugar is really high.

Scott Benner 7:47
Oh my gosh, hey, when you said you lost a significant amount of weight, can you share how much just so even if it's just a percentage of your body weight just so people know what to look for?

Katherine 7:56
Yeah, I lost 20 pounds. Wow.

Scott Benner 7:59
Is that a significant amount of your weight? Yes, yeah. Okay. And you're a singer dancer. Yes. So yeah, that's interesting, too, isn't it? Because if you're, you must look like you're healthy. I'm assuming if you're if you're dancing, and you say you're eating very healthy, it's weird that someone would say to you, this is probably a nutrition problem. Did you say that can't be I eat this is how I eat? Or do you just kind of listen to them at that point?

Katherine 8:25
Yeah, I listened to them. Because my parents were really noticing the weight loss. They saw me eating so they were like, alright, something's something's off here.

Scott Benner 8:35
And you're young too. I mean, you're going to a pediatrician still, right? Yes, yeah, gotcha. They're just like skinny equals food. But they got you pretty quickly, because they ran off with a run a full blood panel on you. Yeah, they did. Yeah, maybe the thing about the food was just to keep you calm, because they maybe they closed the door and like, something's really wrong with this girl. You know? Because if you run like a CBC, they did that.

Katherine 9:00
I'm not sure they I just remember I went to go get my blood drawn. And she like, had five vials. And I was like, Whoa,

Scott Benner 9:07
I think you probably had a complete blood panel. And I bet you that part of them was looking for cancer two.

Katherine 9:14
I think Yeah. I think my labs did come back with all that information.

Scott Benner 9:17
Yeah, like white blood cell counts. And yeah, right. I bet you they were scared to something really bad was wrong. And, and that's good. It sounds like they kind of threw the kitchen sink at you and got everything they needed. Pretty quick. Yeah. So did you just, I mean, how did you feel in that moment? Did you just go to the hospital? Or did you make plans? How did you handle it?

Katherine 9:37
Yeah, we just went to the hospital. And I was very calm at the time. It's really crazy. My parents were like, Alright, your blood sugar's really high. Like we need to go to the doctors and I thought it was just the blood drawing lab again. So I'm like, All right, like Yeah, after school, it's good and like, no now and I'm like, Oh, okay. And then we're at the hospital. I'm like, Oh, okay. So Hospital.

Scott Benner 9:59
Hospital. Oh, yeah. Had you been? Had you ever been sick prior to that in your life?

Katherine 10:05
Um, no, I've diabetes was the first

Scott Benner 10:09
thing to happen. Yeah. My brothers

Katherine 10:11
and sisters, younger sister,

Scott Benner 10:14
younger sister, any autoimmune in the family celiac vitiligo, thyroid conditions

Katherine 10:25
and nothing, nothing on both sides

Scott Benner 10:27
with your parents. How about grandparents or anything? Oh, yeah. How about this? Got an aunt that runs to the bathroom after Thanksgiving dinner that nobody talks about? Anything like that?

Katherine 10:36
No, it's nothing. Interesting.

Scott Benner 10:38
Okay. All right. So now you're in the hospital? When does the weight of it hit you?

Katherine 10:47
Um, I would say I was only in the hospital for a day. Because they just COVID Yeah, it was during right right in the middle. And they thought they were testing my blood for something. And it came back fine. I wasn't in DK. So they told me to go straight to the endocrinologist. And I didn't even know what diabetes was. I thought it was you prick your finger once a day. That was it. And maybe you couldn't eat bread? If you're?

Scott Benner 11:19
You know, that would probably be if that's all it was. I think that would actually be good for me. If I if somebody was like, lucky, just can't eat bread. I was like, I might fix a lot of my problems. Thank you. Yeah, well, I was so your ex, your expectation did not meet the reality at all. So did they? Did they educate you in the hospital? Or is it something you learned slowly, over time by yourself?

Katherine 11:44
In the hospital, they really told me nothing. That's when I went to the endocrinologist and she whipped out an insulin pen and was like, You're gonna take this three times a day, then whipped out the nighttime one. She's like, you're gonna take this one today. And I had a phobia of needles. I was terrified. And I was just like,

Scott Benner 11:59
oh, no, I'm not. I was like, you've got to be kidding me. Did you have any pushback? Even internally? Did you have any thoughts of like, This isn't me or I'm not doing this? Or what were your What was your monologue? Like internally?

Katherine 12:13
It was definitely a lot of denial. Like, in a couple days, it would be okay. I wouldn't have to do it. Yeah, because I didn't. I didn't really think I was sick. In my head. I was like, oh, like, I wasn't that sick. I wasn't that sick. But looking back on it now looking at those months and the photos and everything. I was like, oh, yeah,

Scott Benner 12:31
right, right. So it occurs to me two things. First of all, you sound like a very together person for your age, which I don't know what that means. Exactly. But that's the vibe I'm getting so far. Also, I don't think many 18 year olds reach out to be on podcasts about diabetes. So you're a rather mature person your whole life, I'm guessing.

Katherine 12:53
Um, yeah, I've firstborn. So I've been pretty responsible. Gotcha. All right. I really, this year, especially listening to the podcast, and everything I've gotten way more together. Okay.

Scott Benner 13:07
The reason I asked? Well, is because I mean, how you how you make out in the first year, how it strikes you, I think is going to have a lot to do with your perspective and your mindset. So let me ask you, because when I think of your generation, right away, I think of people who grew up with cell phones, internet access, which I know sounds crazy to you, because you probably don't even think of it that way. But you know, how when you're watching a TV show, and you see a guy or girl and you think, Oh, I know them, but I don't know from where and five seconds later, you know, their life story. Yes, that didn't used to work that way. What would happen was that four days later, while you were at work standing around a water cooler, literally, you'd look at a friend and go, You ever see that show where the girls will which any go? What? Yeah, the mother in law on that show, you know her? And then your buddy, go, no, no, anyway, all right. And that would be how it would go. Right. So you don't have a lot of expectations too, for things and especially for things to come quickly. But in your generation you have that you have instant access to almost anything you want. And I know you don't even see it that way likely, but it builds a an expectation inside of you that what you want comes fast. And I don't know that that's a bad thing or a good thing. I just think it's a reality of growing up in the internet age. So my first thought was, did you ever have a feeling of like, oh, I can I can fix this then the doctors just don't know. Did you ever have that like initial? This must be wrong. We can fix this feeling or did you go right into acceptance?

Katherine 14:48
Um, I think I did go into acceptance. I really didn't think about there not being a cure for type one diabetes. It i One day I was just like, oh, so there's Nothing like I can do to fix it. Right. I, I knew it was important, and I had to take care of it. So I think I went into acceptance.

Scott Benner 15:08
Yeah, I mean, and that's really I mean, you're listening to the podcast, you hear stories of people twice your age three times your age, who have trouble, kind of just getting past the initial. I don't want this to be my life and getting right to taking care of it. So it's impressive that you've and by the way, I don't know that you've done that. I just feel like you have. So we're gonna keep asking questions to find out but your perspective and your attitude seem right. To me, it's really impressive. You're your parents help you with this at all.

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your parents help you with this at all.

Katherine 20:22
My dad really took it on the first, the first day he was like, alright, nothing's terminal. diabetes, we're good. We can do it and just researched. Everything was the equipment, the pumps, that type of insulin was really amazing and helping me.

Scott Benner 20:40
I'd love to talk to you dad for five minutes. I'd ask him one question. I'd say after you said that to your daughter. Where did you go and cry privately?

Katherine 20:48
Probably I don't think you slept since.

Scott Benner 20:51
You don't think he slept in the last year?

Katherine 20:54
I really don't think so. He's just watching the graph.

Scott Benner 20:57
Well, he's gonna need to get over that. But is there a need for that? Are you getting low or high overnight a lot.

Katherine 21:04
Um, it's been in sometimes it's either like drastic highs or drastic lows. But recently it's been i i figured out how to get it pretty steady before I go to sleep.

Scott Benner 21:19
Okay, so he helped you with research and stuff. Does he help you with management?

Katherine 21:26
In the beginning, yes. I picked my own finger from the start. But shots I didn't do probably till a month after I was diagnosed. So my mom, my sister, and my dad all did them for me.

Scott Benner 21:37
That's very nice of them. Seriously, give you some time to acclimate? Right. Yeah, when you finally did it for yourself? Was it a feeling of like, well, I guess I can't let somebody do this forever. Or did you? Like what was the thing that pushed you over the edge? Got you going?

Katherine 21:52
I was really mad at my mom. And I was really hungry. And I didn't want her to be the one to give me the shot. So I was like, no, what? I'll just do it.

Scott Benner 22:00
Aren't people interesting? So you were very mad at the lady who was paying all your bills, taking good care of you helping you reduce? Yes, yeah. And so much so that you were like, I, I just need her away from me. I'm going to do this. So that I don't have to be involved with her in the moment. Yeah, listen, that's a very common story. So just interesting, but that's not what happened. Okay, so where do you find? Well, that's not my question. Hold on a second. Catherine. Let Scott revamp what he was gonna say. Take your time. Yeah, I. You said it's been and then you paused like three minutes ago. And in my head. I heard, it's been one week since you looked at me. And now I'm gonna get emails from people like you have ADHD. But it's put me off track for a second. Okay, so how do they teach you? I mean, who teaches you, you get an endo? Right. You're not going to your pediatrician anymore. Yeah, I have an endo. Okay. What's their teaching of management? You're so fresh in this you're going to remember?

Katherine 23:04
Yeah, it was I mean, they told me if your 250 for three hours, you take this much. And you divide carbs by this amount, and you take this shot at night, and that was really it.

Scott Benner 23:18
Hmm. And you did that?

Katherine 23:22
I did that. But it wasn't going great. Because who wants to be 250? For three hours?

Scott Benner 23:27
Yeah. Man, for sure. So were you getting while you were doing what they told you? Were you experiencing many lows, as well as these highs to 50?

Katherine 23:39
Yeah, I had super high highs and super low lows. And then I my sister got COVID One week after I was diagnosed, and then I got it two weeks after that. So that also,

Scott Benner 23:52
when you don't know what you're doing, and then yeah, COVID on top of it. I'm not going to ask you how that was because I don't imagine it went well. So high highs, low lows. Let's put numbers on that. What's a low low

Katherine 24:07
50s.

Scott Benner 24:08
Okay, how and how did you feel it? 50

Katherine 24:13
I, I went low so much that it didn't affect me after certain point.

Scott Benner 24:18
Sorry, getting used to it. So were you were you ping pong and just up down all day long?

Katherine 24:24
Yep. Gotcha. Sorry. 50 to 50. So they had

Scott Benner 24:27
your basil wrong. They had your carb ratio wrong. And I'm guessing you didn't Pre-Bolus Is that all right? Correct. Yeah, Catherine. I've been doing this a long time you understand? Okay, so how did you I mean, obviously, it's wrong and obviously it's difficult to live with. But what makes you look for other information? I mean, I guess how many times did you go back to them and say, hey, help before you went and did something for herself.

Katherine 25:01
Um, when I did have COVID We call them a bunch and message them a lot because freaking out because we're like, oh my god, it's the first time she's sick. Her numbers going crazy. She's COVID. And they didn't answer us until like, after I was done with COVID

Scott Benner 25:19
Hello, it's the doctor's office. How can we help? Good call five days ago? Really? How long between when you call them and when they got back to you? I would

Katherine 25:30
say five or six days shameful. Okay. Yeah. So

Scott Benner 25:33
you were finished with COVID by then? Yeah, yep. Hey, just for context. What were your COVID symptoms?

Katherine 25:40
Um, fever, headache, shakiness, nausea, runny nose. Cough.

Scott Benner 25:49
Did you get Ketos? Yeah, I

Katherine 25:51
had a lot of ketones.

Scott Benner 25:53
Yeah. And there's no way you were gonna manage them with insulin because you you're all out of balance to begin with?

Katherine 25:58
Yeah, the fever. Really? I had to take shots like every two hours.

Scott Benner 26:02
Okay. He didn't have a pump that either. Yeah, no pump. Right. Okay. So, okay, so does that turn you off to your doctor's office at that point? Or do you just think this is how it goes?

Katherine 26:14
Turn me completely off. Good for you, Catherine.

Scott Benner 26:17
Okay, so then you do what an 18 year old would do. And you go to tick tock to try to figure it out. Right.

Katherine 26:26
I well. So I don't know. I was at the hairdresser's one day. And I'm getting my hair cut. So you know, it just needs to be cut. And the hairdresser is talking about her granddaughter who has type one diabetes. I'm like, Oh, my, this will tell her I'm like, oh, you know, I have type one diabetes. And she's like, Oh, really? Like, you know, yeah. And she told me, she's like, You have to listen to this podcast. Like it's helped us so much. It's really great. And she writes it on a sticky note and gave it to me. And I didn't listen to it for about a month afterwards, because I found the sticky note in my car. But then I started listening. I'm like, Okay, I'm not going crazy. I should be changing things.

Scott Benner 27:08
Wow. Good for you. And good for her for sharing. And thank you. Yeah, let me just say, thank you seriously, like at the end of the episodes, Catherine, you ever hear me say like, Hey, if you enjoyed the podcast, tell somebody else about it. You know, but it really is how the podcast like stays alive. Yeah, word of mouth is the is the only real way to publicize the podcast. Like you could buy ads. I've seen famous people buy ads for their podcast, and it doesn't help their podcast. It really is. The only way to do it is that somebody has to listen to it really get something out of it. Enough so that they're willing to tell another person a stranger. Really? Yeah. Hey, give this a shot. So okay, well, thank God the sticky stayed in your pocket, I guess. How did you start to listen? Did you just because people listen all different ways. So I'm interested.

Katherine 27:59
So I started episode one, and binged like, one to 100. Like a week.

Scott Benner 28:05
Am I better at it now than I was then?

Katherine 28:09
I think it's been pretty good. From the star consistent.

Scott Benner 28:11
You're saying I love consistent. My microphones better now, though. Right. And there's no more dogs in the background. That's probably a bonus.

Katherine 28:20
Yeah, but then I, you know, did some recent ones after that, and then went through and saw some good names. And it was really good.

Scott Benner 28:28
Wow, that's amazing. And so did you find this interesting, did you? So I just heard somebody say this? Actually, I know exactly. Who said it. She was an hour. I'm gonna get her episode number because I love her horse. You know, the best thing they say to do on a podcast is to search the internet. People find it incredibly interesting, they say. And by the way, what I'm searching is my own website, because I don't know where anything is. Okay. Episode 587 is with Laura. She's actually from Switzerland. And she was on Instagram the other day telling someone about how starting at the beginning, she learned so much about management, because at the beginning of the podcast, it felt like I think what she was saying is that it felt like I was just talking through what I do at that point. Yeah, right. And so is that was that you're finding in those first, like, 100 episodes or so?

Katherine 29:28
Yeah, it was just listening to you like being able to talk and share how you do things. And I took it from there.

Scott Benner 29:35
Wow. And so have you been to the defining diabetes series or the pro tips or anything like that?

Katherine 29:42
Yes, I go through them and listen, okay.

Scott Benner 29:45
All this has been valuable for you. It really has. Catherine, you're like my focus group now. Right, thank you. Because I would think I would think I would not be as palatable to a 17 or eight 10 year old person. So do you like me? And like my vibe works for you? Or did you just need the information so badly, you didn't care who was delivering it to, you

Katherine 30:09
know, the vibe and just the way the episodes are set up and how it's really just conversations is, it's very helpful

Scott Benner 30:16
that works for you. So you don't care that I'm 32 years older than you, that doesn't matter. No, it doesn't matter that I don't have diabetes. It does not matter. Wow. Cool. Well, it's all working the way I wanted to then Kevin. Not a lot is gone the way I wanted in my life. So it's pretty exciting. You know, I've had a lot of ideas I once Can I tell you something I've never told anybody. Sure. I was married not long. And I go to my wife, who must have been very disappointed. I said, I'm not going to work today. I have an idea for a movie. And it's in my head. I'm gonna write it down. Right. So I call out of work. And I don't know how old I am. 24 Maybe. And, but you would think I would know when I got married. Right? Maybe we should figure that out real quick. I was born in 71. And I was married 96. So 8191. I'm 25 Then right? Okay, so imagine you're, first of all, you're married way too young Katherine, in this story. Already, you've probably already quietly called a friend and been like, I don't know what I did. You know. And then the guy says, I'm gonna stay home and write my movie idea down. You've got to be at a panic as you're going off to work. You're like, Oh, great. I'm gonna be taking care of this idiot my entire life anyway, I, I write out a treatment for my idea. And it's about these kids that live in a house. And behind the house is a meadow. And there's this gate that they find it's not attached to anything. And when you go through a gate, you go to this other place and this whole thing and my wife comes home, she reads it. And she goes, this is very good. And I said, Thank you. She goes, have you ever read a Bridge to Terabithia? Oh, my God, I go, No, why? And she goes, Well, that's what you're writing right now. And I was, I was like, damn it. So my point is, can you imagine having an idea? So good, that it's already a book? And would one day become a movie? Except somebody had the idea before? You? You don't? I mean, so yeah. So when I had the idea for the podcast, there actually wasn't another diabetes podcast. And I'm just excited that my ideal works like Like, no kidding. How long ago did you find it?

Katherine 32:26
Um, it was around July.

Scott Benner 32:29
Okay, August, September, October, I'm counting now November, December, January, 10 months ago, two months into your diet three months into your diagnosis. About 10 months ago, you find a podcast made by a guy 32 years older than you that does not have diabetes. And it actually helped you. And he decided to make it eight years ago. Like you were listening to something last year that I made like six, seven years prior to that. Yeah, it's crazy. It's nuts. Right? Like, none of that makes sense. To me. Still, I'm see it probably does to you because you're young. But I'm old. And so I'm still mesmerized by the Internet. A little bit. Okay, so what did you take out of the podcast first, like, what was your what were your first steps? What got you moving in the right direction?

Katherine 33:14
Um, bold was insulin. You've probably heard like, a million times, but I wasn't afraid to Lowe's for a really long time. So I was just like, oh, I can use more insulin. Sure. And I just started doing that. And then when you talk about Pre-Bolus thing, I was like, Oh, my God, this is so smart. I never knew that. And I started doing that. Wow.

Scott Benner 33:35
So all the way back to Episode 11. Right? Yep. Yeah. You know, that. As crazy as it sounds, that I just I think during the course of, like, if you listen to the podcasts, you know, I just come up with the titles from the tax like at some point in somebody says something like a woman the other day told me, I only have ginger cat. And I had a whiteboard in front of me and I wrote down ginger cats like that. That's going to be the episode title. It is not in any way descriptive of what we talked about for the hours that we're talking. But I to me, I don't care. And so I recorded that episode 11, which was still a lot of it's a lot of stream of consciousness for me back then. Right? Yeah. And I think in there for the first time, I said, you just have to be bold with the insulin. And I wasn't trying to make a catchphrase or something like that. It's just something random. I said, and then I made it the title of the episode. And now people wear it on T shirts and things like that. Very, very weird. But so so your first thought was, I'm not stuck using just what the doctor told me. So is it as simple as like when a doctor gives you a pill and says, take one of these twice a day? You've never you've never once in your life considered harm. I just take three.

Katherine 34:51
Right? Yeah, I mean, yeah, I never questioned it.

Scott Benner 34:53
So when they say take this much insulin at a meal, you go well, that's how this works. Yeah, I see. Okay, and then up, down, up, down, somebody comes along and says, you know, you could probably take more insulin if you needed it. And by the way, insulin works this way. So you can't just put it in. So were you not you were just were you shooting and eating at the same time? Or were you even eating sometimes and shooting afterwards?

Katherine 35:18
I would, yeah, basically take the insulin and then, like, eat seconds after that.

Scott Benner 35:23
Okay, so there's no Pre-Bolus whatsoever and you're eating interested in a healthy diet, you say, what does that consist of? Generally?

Katherine 35:31
I'm a ton of vegetables. I'm, I'm not even I'm not a big fruit eater. But just yeah, like, like, I would eat eggs in the morning. Sometimes I would put, you know, bread with it. And then at that point, I wasn't eating lunch, but for dinner, I would just have a ton of vegetables.

Scott Benner 35:48
So a lot of fiber kind of heavy vegetables, carrots, beans, things like that.

Katherine 35:52
Yeah. Yeah, some quinoa. Like,

Scott Benner 35:54
it's you. You know, who would love you? Give you you've probably never listened to the thyroid episodes with Dr. Benito.

Katherine 36:03
I actually I have oh, how come? I thought I had a thyroid problem for a while bit of anxiety, but I'm fine. But

Scott Benner 36:12
you're good. Okay. Dr. Benito. Every time I see she goes, You could have quinoa. And he says qinhuai all the time. Have you ever noticed like Jenny's go to was like quinoa? Yes, yeah. And I'm like Jenny, less healthy. We're talking to everybody picks up stuff using keto as your example. Because I'm thinking nine out of 10 people are like, What is she talking about? But, but yes, you're eating things that need insulin. And yeah, and that aren't simple. They're not just count it, shoot it, it'll work. They need Pre-Bolus thing they need. I mean, some of those things need considerations for protein rises later. All kinds of things, right? Yeah, yeah. How bad off? How bad off that wasn't English. How far how far off? How far off was your basil from where it needed to be?

Katherine 37:04
Um, it wasn't too far off. I think. I have I haven't been on basil for a while, but I was around 11 When I went off the pens, but I think they started me off at like, 910. So it was, it was a little off, but not awful.

Scott Benner 37:22
Okay. And you do have any honeymoon at this point, or you are no, no, honeymooning. What's your Basal rate right now in your pod?

Katherine 37:31
It's actually very strange. For 8am till 9pm, it's zero. But from nine to whatever time during the night, I have like point five point a point to

Scott Benner 37:49
where you literally have no Basal for like 15 hours a day?

Katherine 37:53
Yeah, I think it's the level because it's my Basal switches so much. But I think it's still my level of activity during the day that any insulin that's just in there just makes me go low.

Scott Benner 38:06
What's your insulin to carb ratio? You're the first person that's ever said this to me. So what's your insulin to carb ratio?

Katherine 38:13
Another reason why my doctors shake their head at me is because I don't divide. I don't have like a set number where I divide by carbs. I look at what I'm eating. Think about what I'm doing. And then I kind of go from there about like, how much carbs? This like if it's pasta, you know, I know it's gonna affect me a little later. So I'll take it less and do a little less of a Pre-Bolus. But with something with keen well, like, it's more upfront,

Scott Benner 38:41
Catherine Yuri took this podcast to heart, didn't you? Yeah, okay. So But alright, let's try to figure it out for a second. If I gave you a piece of bread and the bread was 20 carbs. How much of the time would you give yourself for a slice of bread?

Katherine 38:58
If it's in the morning, probably three. But if it's in the afternoon to 1.5

Scott Benner 39:05
Interesting. You sure you don't have any? You should you don't have any kind of honeymoon happening still?

Katherine 39:14
Um, I mean, I don't think so.

Scott Benner 39:17
What's your blood? What's your blood sugar? Does your blood sugar sit stable during the day? 8am to 9pm

Katherine 39:23
Well, you Yes, sometimes but mornings are tough.

Scott Benner 39:29
Okay, so mornings are tough. Yes, sometimes so when it is stable, what's the number to stable up?

Katherine 39:38
I tried to stable it. The lowest I can go but usually 120 route either around there 90.

Scott Benner 39:46
Okay. 120 to 90 and, but in the morning it's higher.

Katherine 39:52
Yeah, in the morning. If I if something happens I don't Pre-Bolus correctly or food affects me In a certain way, or like shoot right up to 300,

Scott Benner 40:02
because you don't have any basil going, yeah. Okay. Give ketones during the day. None. All right. That's a long time not to have insulin is why I'm saying, like, I know a doctor would say to you don't please don't do that. But I'm trying to figure out I mean, what's your agency right now?

Katherine 40:26
Um, my last agency was 5.3. But I was going low too often. So I would say, I have to go soon. But I'm guessing it's gonna be like, 5.7 5.8.

Scott Benner 40:43
How much do you dance?

Katherine 40:46
I'm five times a week.

Scott Benner 40:51
Certain times a day.

Katherine 40:53
I'm usually always around four to nine

Scott Benner 40:56
in the afternoon to the evening. Okay, so what if I said to you? What if I said, you, I wish you had a time I wish you had some basil happening during the day? Is there a way for you to try to take so my expectation is that there's a way for you to try to take some of your meal insulin and swap it for basil. So go lighter on your meals, but add some basil during the day. Have you tried that?

Katherine 41:29
I have right now I have it. So my Basal turns off at around 9am. So I have it for breakfast, and then it's it switches off.

Scott Benner 41:38
Okay. But have you like what if like, could you make your like, here's my thought, could you make your Basal point one an hour? All day long? I could, I could try it. Because if you did that. I mean, seriously, it's kind of, you know, there's, there's always this fear in me, Catherine that one day, I'm going to go Oh, god, there's nothing left to talk about this podcast is over. But you just said something to me that I was like, No, I've recorded 750 of these. And I was like, no one's ever sent this to me before. So cool. So let me let me get my calculator out. Hold on a second buy out. I mean, like open an app. It's a calculator. So if you do you have your PDM I do. Can you read me your Basal program? Yeah, you want to do this? By the way. We have not yet talked about what you want to come on for. But we will get to it. I promise.

Katherine 42:28
We have time. Okay, good. Okay, so right now.

Scott Benner 42:36
So I have you as like 9am. To what is it? 8pm? Zero, right?

Katherine 42:43
Okay, so yeah, it's nine 9am to 9pm zero, okay. And then 9pm to midnight is point 453 hours and then 12 to I think 3.55.

Scott Benner 43:02
Negligible three hours, go ahead.

Katherine 43:06
And then three to 430 is

Scott Benner 43:11
point six, five 30.653. That's only an hour and a half. Okay.

Katherine 43:15
And then 430 to nine is point eight.

Scott Benner 43:22
Interesting 430 3637 3834 and a half hours. Okay, here's what I do. I got point eight times four. You getting 3.2. In that segment? I got 6.65. For an hour and a half, that's like point that's like another unit. And then we have for three hours point five cents a unit and a half. And we have for three hours point four five, which is basically another unit and a half. So 34567 You're getting like 7.2 of basil a day. Would you tell me how much you weigh?

Katherine 44:10
Oh, 125.

Scott Benner 44:14
Okay, now, can you go into your history and tell me how much you've bought? Like how much you Bolus yesterday? Yes. Oh, also Katherine while you're doing that, nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. We're becoming bold with insulin. 7.2 units of basil for a day. You weigh 125 pounds. You dance constantly. Alright, when you're ready, tell me how much you Bolus yesterday.

Katherine 44:47
Do you want the percentage? No, the percentage is

Scott Benner 44:51
going to be really high because you don't use any Bazelon thinking. But actually, Hey, Catherine. I'm going to curse. Give me the bait. Give me the percentage. Okay, good. Okay. Eat some d3. Yeah. Okay. And then, but I want to know total insulin

Katherine 45:06
18.5 units. point five.

Scott Benner 45:10
How many foreign meals did you have yesterday? Like how many meals to two? Can you see how much of that 18.5 went into those two meal bonuses and how much was correction?

Katherine 45:23
Yes. might take me a second. Oh, yeah. Okay, so 6.8 of it was basil.

Scott Benner 45:35
Yesterday 6.8 was Basal. Yeah. Of the 18.5 Yes. Holy snap. Okay, so of the 12 that's remaining. Did you make any corrective boluses yesterday, or were these only meal boluses?

Katherine 45:50
I did one corrective.

Scott Benner 45:51
How much was that?

Katherine 45:54
That was around three units.

Scott Benner 45:57
He got to the day before and see how much of your insulin was corrective.

Katherine 46:04
So yesterday, I was weirdly the same 70 That's just my pump beeping.

Scott Benner 46:10
That's not It's not weird at all. Catherine. All right. I, by the way, I don't know what's wrong with me. I'm having an incredibly good time talking about this. Like, if you like if you said to me right now, finish this, or go to Coachella, I'd be like, I'm good with me. And Catherine.

Katherine 46:27
Said it was 73%. Yesterday, too, with 18.1 weirdly units. Seven of it was Basal. And then I did do a corrective shot that was a little lower around like two.

Scott Benner 46:42
Okay, so if you were here, I would take I would do a couple of things. First things first. round numbers not and I'm so sorry. You get your period do you do not because the dancing?

Katherine 46:58
Um, I don't not from dancing from what? I just lost it when I before I was diagnosed, I never got it back.

Scott Benner 47:08
Maybe you'll find it one day. Although from what I hear from ladies, good riddance. So. Okay, so because you're not getting any weird hormonal fluctuations, you don't have times of the month that are harder or easier to Bolus for right? Now, yeah, nothing, I'll tell you what, I might take that 100. So I'm going to treat you for a second like your, your pre pubescent, which you're not, but you don't get a so the same thing. So if you were 125 pounds, point one per 10 pounds per hour point, one point 10 pounds. Oh makes you 1.2 an hour for basil. If you were 1.2 an hour for basil. By the way, I'm not saying you should be I'm just a math in my head here. That would give you 28 units a day, which is obviously too much, you're not even using that much. So that's not the measurement we're going to use. Instead, what we're going to say is you're basically using seven units a day and basil and you're correcting once a day with three. So what if we took the 10 divided by 24 and made your Basal rate point for all day long?

Katherine 48:23
I'll try it I'm excited.

Scott Benner 48:25
Right? So by the way, this is like the equivalent of getting a medical procedure in an alleyway. Okay, so I let's all be clear, barely graduated from high school didn't go to college. Don't have a medical degree, but nothing is considered medical advice. You know why it can't be cuz I'm pretty much an idiot. Okay, so that's why now let's ignore when the times when you hear Jenny's call me like a contemporary or colleague like you know what I mean? Like that. That would be I'm not misdirecting you into believing I'm something I'm not. I'm a guy whose kid has diabetes. Who thinks it's bonkers that you don't have Basal all day long. And I and I makes me wonder. So you're eyeballing your meals. But you're eyeballing your meals without basil. So that's the first thing I have to tell you. If you do this, you've got to be careful. The first couple of times should Bolus Yeah, all right, because you're suddenly going to get between nine and nine. You're gonna get point for an hour for 12 hours. Well, there's going to be, I think, let's see. Let me make sure I'm saying this, right. So you're gonna get almost five units of insulin and basil throughout the day that you're not normally getting, but you are sort of normally getting some of it because you're putting in three units as a correction. I'm guessing your correction usually happens around 10 o'clock in the morning.

Katherine 49:54
Almost exactly, yes.

Scott Benner 49:56
I should get a podcast about this. You know what I'm saying? I'm at this point do you think people are like he knows all this? And he's just trying to sound like he's he's like, I've paid you or something? You have not gotten any money or compensation, is that correct? I've gotten nothing good for you. And by the way, when I sell ads on this episode, I will not be sharing it with you just so you know.

Katherine 50:15
I do not expect that. That's good.

Scott Benner 50:19
I got bills, Catherine. All right. Now let's um, so that's my boy. That's it for me if I had to guess for you. I mean, look, you're at some points, point eight, overnight. That's just you getting ready for your Dawn phenomenon, I think. Because that's what you did. Right? You've been getting high in the morning. So you're jacking it up? Is that right? Yeah. All right. I don't want you to have to make basil adjustments. Don't get me wrong. If there's a thing that happens with like clockwork, then by all means, if you know, if you always spike at 4am, then make your Basal higher at three 3am. You don't I mean, like I'm not saying yeah, I think that's fine. But I think there's a world where you could start at point for an hour and not go low? And then take a look again and see. Do I need it to be hired for am? Do I need to be higher somewhere else do I need to be lower somewhere else make an assessment off of that, if you were if you were scared, because you're you have nothing right now I'd even understand if you wanted to make it 9am to 9pm, point three 9pm to 9am. Point four, see how it goes the first day kind of a thing. But I would work off of that point for number and see what you can figure out now when you go to your meals, I think we need to remember that you are going to now have basically a half unit of Basal every hour going that you didn't have before. And so if you I'm just going to make up a number here, okay? If you look at your meal and say to yourself, Catherine, that is I don't know, that's going to be six units, okay? And I expect it in three hours, it will be mostly out of my system. Maybe try four and a half units for it then. Okay, because you're gonna have point four point 4.4 over those next three hours of basil happening that you hadn't had before. That's probably not going to end up being enough. But I prefer to see you on the safe side of that decision the first few times you make it and then try unless you're getting a significant rise after a meal. Try not to correct it for no 90 minutes, two hours. Okay, okay. But if you see a rise 90 minutes after or two hours or you see any kind of a rise you don't expect or you don't want them begin to go back more towards the basil or the excuse me the Bolus for the meal that you expected. Not taking off. Maybe a unit for basil or something like that. That will make sense. Yes, thank you. You're like my favorite 18 year old ever. If I said this to my daughter, you know what would have happened 20 minutes ago. She'd be like, why are we talking about this? And I'd say other people would like to talk to me about this. She go I am not one of them. Okay. All right. Say it all back to me. What are you going to do the whole thing?

Katherine 53:24
No, I'm

Scott Benner 53:25
not word for word. Tell me what you're gonna do.

Katherine 53:28
Point four units from my basil and lower the Bolus on my food and see how it works.

Scott Benner 53:34
seems so easy, right? Yeah. All right. Now, you're still white. By the way. Why are you able to talk to me on a Wednesday? What's going on here? Are you at school? Oh, Argent gets those two. Pretty killer. So when do you think you'll start trying this? We try it on the weekend because you have some time. Or when you try? I was gonna

Katherine 53:53
I already changed it. I'm ready.

Scott Benner 53:57
Life is for the living. Catherine. I understand. I'm saying that's right. Nothing like being youthful. You're like what? This seems fine. Let's try this. So you're saying that? Like, let me just ask you a couple like cleanup questions. After your meal? Well, you don't know because your bolusing your Pre-Bolus and your breakfast. So there's, you have active insulin all the way up to lunch, and then your bolusing going for lunch? So you really have active meal insulin all day long. And you're still higher than you want to be. Is that right? Yeah, this is the Basal. This is going to be the greatest day of your life. Okay. Katherine, would you I don't want to give myself more work. And you can say no. Okay. But would you carve out a little bit of time for me Monday afternoon next week to sit down for 15 minutes and just record again and tell me how this went? Sure. All right, cool. I will do that afterwards. Now 15 minutes into it. Why did you want to come onto the podcast is talking about how you teachers helped you, right?

Katherine 55:01
Yes, it's it's a pretty quick story. So if it'll be good, go for it. So I found this podcast in July. So basically, I went right back to school after I was diagnosed the week after from February to June, other than having COVID I was home, but I was petrified to do any type of management in school. I wouldn't scan myself, I wouldn't drink a juice box. I wouldn't eat at school, we had a weird schedule because of COVID. So we went home at 1210 and did a class online. So I didn't have to take any insulin at school. But even if I was high, I would just let I would, I would really eat in the morning. I would eat like oatmeal, and my numbers would shoot up to like 350. And then they would go down to about 60 When I was leaving school. So it wasn't great. Obviously,

Scott Benner 56:03
that's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna do something I don't do. Okay, so wait a second. You're just gonna get a text with my name. Okay, and you and I are going to be friends for the next couple of days.

Katherine 56:15
I'm so excited. Okay. All right.

Scott Benner 56:18
You are of the legal age. Right? You're over 18 Yes. All right. Perfect. That's the last thing I need. Is your father. Like, why is this guy texting you? So I just want to I don't want you to be lost while you're doing this. Okay. I'm sorry, I took you off your story. Sorry. You were having trouble with your Bolus at school? Go ahead.

Katherine 56:36
Yes, and even if I was, I had my so FreeStyle Libre to just made it so the phone can scan to the sensor in the summer. So I still had the, you know, the little scanner. And I just turned off, all the alarms turned off the noise. So even urgent, low, I wouldn't have been able to hear it. And it was just not good. I would go out for my 90 minute gym class outside with nothing, not a glucose tab, not a phone, not a scanner. So I was just like, oh, like I was just terrified to manage it. And I didn't have any references really, to anyone with diabetes, or how serious it was. So I didn't, I didn't have really any perspective on it until I was able to listen to the podcast. And I was like, Okay, this is important. This is you know, something I need to fix. So I started to do that over the summer, but going into school, you know, taking out an insulin pen, putting a needle on it and sticking it in your arm or leg or stomach, whatever, terrified me. I was just, I had no idea how I was gonna get through it or do it. And I went into my first day and I have I have amazing teachers, I truly have great relationships with most of my teachers. And I knew that doing this in class, you know, drinking juice, giving shots, scanning myself, wouldn't be a problem. But to me, I just I didn't know anyone that had it. So it it kind of felt disrespectful. To me, if you're just doing it silly to think that that's what I thought. So I got go into my first day I'm like, alright, you know, if I go high during this class, it's gonna take a shot. If I go low, I'm gonna drink a juice box, and we'll see how this goes. And it was my only new teacher of that semester, I had never met her before. And you know, I'm so anxious that my numbers are starting to climb up and I'm like, great, you know, this is how it's gonna go. And I'm, you know, sitting at my desk, and my phone is flipped over on top of my desk, and the teacher starts walking up to me, and I'm like, Oh my God, here we go. Like, I'm already in trouble. I didn't even do anything. I'm so nervous for no reason. Yeah. Like, start a senior year. Here we go. And she knelt down to me, and the class was dead silent. And I'll always remember but she pointed to my phone and she said, I understand why you need this. And for me, that was just everything. i i It really did completely changed my life.

Scott Benner 59:26
Just a simple statement of, of understanding. And yeah, it freed you up. Were you able to just do with them without that nervousness?

Katherine 59:36
Yeah, a little bit. It's by bit but I in that classroom with her, I just, I felt comfortable I started giving myself shots. So you know when I would go high because I was still not on the pump yet. And I would you know, without the big jug of glucose tabs or a juice box or granola bar and from being able to feel confident in doing that in her Classroom, I started then to do it in my stats class, my science class and are just really slowly going into every class and it was just amazing.

Scott Benner 1:00:14
Did this help you go to other teachers to sort of come out and tell them so they could give you the same understanding? Where did you just sort of just start doing it?

Katherine 1:00:24
I did some most of my teachers that I had junior year, you know, got the email that I had diabetes, so most of them did, no, but I did hide it for a while. Like, if I had my scanner on, I would completely hide it with clothing, so no one would ask me, but it it helped me a lot. I make a lot of diabetic jokes.

Scott Benner 1:00:44
Yeah. Or do you see at first said you thought it was kind of disrespectful to be doing a medical thing in front of other people. Do you feel that way now?

Katherine 1:00:53
Not at all. Okay. Where are you in by? I'm sorry, say that again?

Scott Benner 1:00:58
Were you embarrassed?

Katherine 1:01:00
Oh, yeah, I was terrified. Embarrassed. I just had no idea how I was gonna do it.

Scott Benner 1:01:06
I understand. I mean, I think I understand. I'm sorry, I cut you off. I said, Oh, God, I said something. You started talking. And then I asked another question. Shoot. I'm gonna keep on that. That's Sorry, I'm gonna get. So do you think that you were really concerned about them? Or do you think that that seemed like a reasonable explanation for hiding your embarrassment? Like, Oh, this isn't fair to those people. So I just won't do it.

Katherine 1:01:34
Yeah, yeah. I was just like, oh, this is strange. It's, you know, these people have known me my whole life. And I've never whipped down a needle before. Like, it was just very different. And I was not used to it.

Scott Benner 1:01:46
Was it an excuse, then like, Oh, this isn't fair to them to do a medical thing in front of them, which was a nice way of giving yourself and like, the okay to not do it?

Katherine 1:01:55
Yeah. And also, as, you know, little fear of, they're gonna yell at me. I'm, I'm taking out a needle in school. Like, this is weird. Really?

Scott Benner 1:02:02
Oh, okay. Yeah. Do you tell your parents, you know, everybody says, talk to your parents, but you didn't tell your parents about this, right? Of course not. But it's like, it's like, you know, your mom's like, if you're ever going to do something, and you don't know you come to me like, oh, okay, lady. You're the first one I'll run to when someone offers me Molly, no problem. So you just had to have an experience in one kind person. Do you ever find out why that person knew about diabetes?

Katherine 1:02:32
My 504 plan?

Unknown Speaker 1:02:34
Oh, no kidding. So

Katherine 1:02:38
yeah, it was sent to everyone. And they are I guess, legally supposed to read it. But she was the first person who talked to me about it.

Scott Benner 1:02:46
Okay. That's really something but a lovely thing. Nice and easy. Never made a big deal out of it always just kind of let it happen.

Katherine 1:02:54
Yeah, it was just, it was perfect. Have you

Scott Benner 1:02:56
had more good experiences or bad experiences with teachers?

Katherine 1:03:01
I've only had one bad experience. And it was right after I started the pump. And everyone told me, you know, all the doctors were like, hey, it's gonna be a change, your numbers are going to fluctuate. And at that time, I was like, No, you know, they don't know what they're talking about. Because I had a really strict with my shots. I I was really I had a very tight range that I stayed in. So when I went high, the first time after getting my pump it like completely destroyed me. I was, I was just the whole day, I was just inconsolable. I was so upset with myself that I was high. And I went to check my blood sugar in my science class. And my teacher told me to put my phone away and I lost it. Did you cry? I was yes. I was so upset. I was like, I'm just checking my blood sugar's and he's like, oh, sorry. Like, oh, it was awful.

Scott Benner 1:03:55
Yeah. I'm sorry, but it's better now. Yes,

Katherine 1:03:59
I, I just did a presentation today on ACCESS people's access to insulin in the US.

Scott Benner 1:04:08
So Catherine, I'm going to say this to you now, because we're kind of at the end, and I'm going to cut this a little shorter than I would normally because we're going to tack more on to this, okay. I feel like what's about to happen is either your blood sugar is going to get very stable around 95 away from food, or, or is you're going to get low. So I've sent you my personal. You have my cell phone number now. Okay, yes, we can text as much as you want until Monday. All right. Whenever you have a question or you want to send me a graph or something, I'd be happy to help you with it. Keeping in mind I'm an idiot and I don't know what I'm talking about. And then it's not medical advice. I'd still be very happy to answer any questions as best I can. So if you want to make adjustments along with me over the you know, just like take, like snapshots of You're libre send it over take a look like tell me where your blood sugar is right now.

Katherine 1:05:05
Okay give me a couple sec.

Scott Benner 1:05:11
No, you're fine. So it's like 130 If I had to guess you haven't had lunch because we're talking through when you usually have lunch I imagine

Katherine 1:05:19
it's 125

Scott Benner 1:05:20
Your but your your blood sugar is 125 Yes. Did you know that the time was 125? When you said that? freaking me out. Katherine. What are you doing? No, I

Katherine 1:05:30
just, I just scanned it. It was 125

Scott Benner 1:05:32
in the Illuminati or something. What's happening? Don't come from my heart. Make your medicine out of something else. Katherine, a lot of references you don't know just happen all at once there. Alright, so your did your blood sugar's 125? It's 1:25pm. We're going to call that a good guy. That's what I was saying to you. You said 120 Oh, it was 125 Okay, that makes more sense. Yeah, I thought you were like some like mystic power or something like that. I wish he real quick scan it again. Is it 126 Right now? Because if it is, I think you're scanning the clock.

Katherine 1:06:05
It is not 126

Scott Benner 1:06:08
Sorry, I just made myself laugh. I don't know why. It wasn't even funny. Okay, so you're 125 right now, am I right to say you haven't eaten since this morning? Correct. Hmm. And you're going to dance today? Yes. Alright. So the dancing is the one thing I'm worried about. What kind of dancing Catherine? Jazz eclectic art music, hippie.

Katherine 1:06:32
I do a lot of ballet. But tonight is lyrical.

Scott Benner 1:06:37
Do you get low after dancing ever? Sometimes, yes. Sometimes? Yes. All right. So if you want to, or you're concerned, if you want to do a Temp Basal off an hour before dance starts and let it run till you know, maybe just about until dance ends. I completely understand that for the first day. And it might even be great data for you. Because maybe you'll look back and go hmm, I got Hi Darren dance. Or maybe I needed that or whatever. Like you'll get some sort of feedback. But am I right to say you haven't eaten since this morning? Yeah, that's right. So what time did you eat this morning? Eight?

Katherine 1:07:18
No, probably 630

Scott Benner 1:07:20
Oh my god. I was so asleep at 630 Okay. 30 getting older has some benefits. One of them is I get up when I want to know. So 630 You ate? How high did you go? Can you see?

Katherine 1:07:35
I went up to 200. But my pump is also on its last couple hours.

Scott Benner 1:07:40
I say. And you're 125 now? Are you gonna change the pump in a minute? Yes. All right. You text me with any questions you have. Seriously? Don't be nervous. Okay. Okay, thank

Katherine 1:07:53
you. You're welcome.

Scott Benner 1:07:55
Any questions before we start this little adventure together? Which will end up calling trying to kill Katherine part one. I'm just kidding. If you do die today, I'll be destroying this recording.

Katherine 1:08:11
Don't worry, I'll make sure people know it wasn't you

Scott Benner 1:08:13
know, seriously, though, what I what I meant to say but somehow it came out as a bizarre joke is please be careful. Check your blood sugar more frequently. If you start getting low back off the point for Okay. Okay. But like putting it into your head like this. If you make it, you made it point for almost a half an hour ago. Now. If you start to drift down, watch it a little bit. Like I don't want you to fall. But I mean, maybe it's just maybe over five hours that would turn your 125 into 90. And then if you suddenly got stable at 90, well, then chain, were feeling good. You know, but if it made you fall too far, it might be too strong. You know, if sometime later tonight you're drifting up. Maybe point four is not enough. Like we'll see. But okay, I'm telling you right now. I could be wrong. My wife tells me all the time that I'm wrong. So it's important to remember that okay, I could be wrong. But you don't need basil for 14 hours or 12 hours. seems crazy to me. Okay, and I think maybe you're just making up for not having Basil with corrections. So let's find out and see what happens.

Katherine 1:09:24
I'm excited for this journey.

Scott Benner 1:09:25
I cannot tell if you're being sarcastic right now.

Katherine 1:09:29
I'm not a little bit of both probably. Okay.

Scott Benner 1:09:30
Can I ask you one last question that we're gonna stop recording. Okay, why can't people in Connecticut drive?

Katherine 1:09:38
I haven't. I'm a really slow driver. So I don't know.

Scott Benner 1:09:42
I imagine if you live in Connecticut. Nobody passes anybody right on the highway. We

Katherine 1:09:47
don't get right on

Scott Benner 1:09:48
red. Why? It's legal. You can do it.

Katherine 1:09:53
It just feels wrong. Catherine, this

Scott Benner 1:09:55
is the same problem you had with your diabetes stuff in the room. Nobody. It's not you can do whatever you want. drive as fast as you want. You know, I drove 100 miles an hour yesterday for a couple of seconds. It was exhilarating. Tell no one. It's a secret. Okay. All right. We're gonna stop now. You good? Yes. All right. No, no, you're rock you. Thank you. This was wonderful. Okay, so in just a moment, I'm gonna play the rest of the recording for you. It's a conversation that Katherine and I had a number of days after this first part was completed. Okay, so it's Monday. Now, when did we talk last week? Like Thursday? Yeah. Wednesday, Wednesday. Okay. So Wednesday, last week we spoke today is Monday. So I want to count Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday about, say five days ago. And we've been texting a little bit, right. Not too much. So what did we do? We moved your Basal to what originally?

Katherine 1:10:49
Point four, I think is what it originally was.

Scott Benner 1:10:52
And were we finding that to be a little too heavy. A little too strong?

Katherine 1:10:56
Yeah, so we did point three. Okay.

Scott Benner 1:10:59
So you were away from like food or Bolus thing. You were drifting lower and you found yourself catching it with carbs. And it kept happening. Then we went to point three did that fix anything?

Katherine 1:11:13
Yeah, it's it. I interflow from the basil after that.

Scott Benner 1:11:17
Okay, so now Basil is holding me steady. It's not dragging you down. That's good. But then I think, did that did that. Did that? Show us a different problem? Yeah. Okay. What, what what came next for you after we got the basil straight?

Katherine 1:11:38
Well, I think one problem that it showed was the night I needed a little more insulin during the, like, 12. Time and then the food Bolus thing.

Scott Benner 1:11:51
Okay. All right. Yeah. So we saw it's a good, I'm glad you brought it up, I guess. So the first thing we saw was that overnight, because prior you had had a really strong overnight, Basil was like, point five and point eight at some points right. Here. Okay. So what did you switch that to?

Katherine 1:12:14
Points? Three, five. I think point four,

Scott Benner 1:12:18
just a little bit more. And you started? Yeah. When? Midnight? One o'clock?

Katherine 1:12:22
Yeah. Midnight.

Scott Benner 1:12:25
Has it been two nights with that new Adjustment now? Yes. Did that work?

Katherine 1:12:31
It did work pretty well.

Scott Benner 1:12:33
Good. All right. So where did you sit between like 1am and 4am? Last night?

Katherine 1:12:39
Last night, I was actually on like, 7075.

Scott Benner 1:12:42
Catherine, we're getting so close. This is excellent. Alright, so we kind of have your basil straight. And even if it changes in the future, you'll know how to kind of move it around. Right? You'll be okay there. Yeah. I think the most interesting thing, as I'm thinking back on our, our old conversation, so we ended up here because when you were describing something during our initial conversation, you're like, I'm doing great. My one sees like this, and you know, everything's good. And then we started talking about a little bit. And I think you said something like, my basil is at zero for like 12 or 14 hours of the day, right? Yeah, and, and I didn't scare you away because what I was thinking in my head was that is definitely not right. And then I instead I said like, Oh, would you be open to talking about that? I was really proud of myself Catherine actually. And so it's so now we have a more steady basil. 24 hours a day, like my first question is, Do you feel any different?

Katherine 1:13:42
Yeah, I never realized but in the afternoons when I would like, I have an Italian glass and I would always come out of it saying, Oh, I feel like so fever dreamy and sweaty and weird. And after the basil fix, I didn't feel that

Scott Benner 1:13:57
yet. But you didn't notice the high blood sugar then? No,

Katherine 1:14:01
I didn't know I usually didn't have a high in the afternoon.

Scott Benner 1:14:04
Interesting. Okay. Is it did it blow your mind a little bit that we added so much basil in the time where you thought you didn't need any and it wasn't too much? Yeah. Blew my mind a little bit so there was a small part of me half and it was like am I wrong? And this like just crushed this poor girl. But we we've been talking through text so great. If you had any problems you could have texted me not that it means anything. I'm just a guy but we've been doing a good job going back and forth. Now that like we'd said the the next thing that I think it showed because you send me a graph every once in a while actually, can you do one now? Can you send me one now?

Katherine 1:14:42
Yeah, all right.

Scott Benner 1:14:44
Show me like 24 hours. Okay

I'll make noises with my Oh wow. You are so the youth know how to use the technology people in a way

Katherine 1:15:01
that is free. That's my generation.

Scott Benner 1:15:03
Yeah. Oh, wait, is that oh, who saw my generation? Do you know who the who is? No. Fascinating. Okay. Let's look at your graph. Time and target range. 94% is your target. What is your target Senate?

Katherine 1:15:25
Um, I think 70 and 140.

Scott Benner 1:15:28
We're balling. Catherine, I understand balling that. You understand? We are that you get average blood sugar. 108 All right. And you didn't botch dinner last night?

Katherine 1:15:42
No, I didn't. And I was at prom. So I was very proud.

Scott Benner 1:15:45
Wait, this is your prom. I'm looking at. Yeah, that's prom. Catherine, I may have saved your prom. I think you did. I No kidding, right? Oh, I wish people could see this. Mostly. I'm going so it's like three o'clock in the afternoon. Now we're talking so I'm looking back. 24 hours. 110 comes down to 100 Hold steady. 200 for three or four right through the prom. 5678 o'clock. You're right around. 100 Yep. Did you kiss a boy around? 830 Catherine Did you a girl just because already 30

Katherine 1:16:20
I didn't I went with my gay best friend. So there's no kissing

Scott Benner 1:16:23
her gay best friend. Alright, so your is your gay best friend sing very loudly and embarrass you just like so we can really embrace the stereotype and figure out why your blood sugar went up like 20 points. Did you get excited?

Katherine 1:16:35
I mean, I was dancing. Okay. Alright, so it could have done it. So you get a little

Scott Benner 1:16:39
bit of I mean, a rock to call it a rise from 100 is really, it's bold, honestly, because you went from like, 100 to 120 that you leveled right out again. Did you eat in here too?

Katherine 1:16:48
I did. What'd you eat? Um, there was bread salad, chicken. And like green beans. And potatoes was wonderful.

Scott Benner 1:16:58
You got your I'm going to call this a spike at like 10 o'clock, but it only went to like 135. And then did you correct that? No. So it all caught up to you around midnight? Yeah, you fell from 135 to 70? Over like a two hour period from like 11am to 1am. Did you have to catch that? Or did it level at 70 on its own? No it leveled on so yeah, we're winning Catherine. Okay. Sat, got it sat like that till 3am. You got a little bit of a rise where you went back to 100. And then it's 6am. We got a bumped to 120 then it comes down but then it jumps at seven. Is that breakfast?

Katherine 1:17:44
Um, yeah, kind of it was around like 738 two dates. And I thought I did the right insulin amount. But I didn't. I was going in school.

Scott Benner 1:17:54
Catherine, you're we're all sad now because you spiked to 150 at lunch at breakfast and finally came back down to 80 and got stable again. And wait, hold on. This is the most important question. Your prom was on Sunday.

Katherine 1:18:08
I know it wasn't my prom. It was my friend's prom. I don't know what they were thinking that.

Scott Benner 1:18:14
I'm saying. Who doesn't like that? Catherine. I don't mean to get off topic. But why would you make the prom on a Sunday? Oh, I know what it's about. They make the kids come to school the next day are no.

Katherine 1:18:26
Juniors, no, juniors, no senior? Seniors? No, juniors? Yes.

Scott Benner 1:18:31
This is to stop kids from having sex and doing drugs. That's why they're doing it. Probably yeah. No. We don't have to worry about that for you. Right? Because you're good. Just in case you're diabetic. And well, I was gonna say because your case your parents, listen, you should say no. Obviously, I don't do drugs or have sex like you. If you just want that. slip that in somewhere you can if you want. Because I'm assuming your parents gonna listen at some point. By the way, after your parents listen to this. I assume they're gonna call the cops on me. But you're 18 There's nothing they can do about it. Alright, so then we have a spike here. Again, we're calling we're calling 160s spike on me. All right. So Catherine, is it fair to say we have your Basal pretty good. We are very good. I would say we've. But we've learned that you're not as good at bolusing for meals as you want to be. But you're not terrible, either. And I'm going to call these spikes at meals better than the ones over the last couple of days. Do you agree with that? Yeah. All right. So what are you learning about bolusing for meals?

Katherine 1:19:32
Pre-Bolus time and how much? Okay, where we're waiting too long. For Pre-Bolus.

Scott Benner 1:19:38
Yeah, well see before your Pre-Bolus is we're kind of meaningless because you'd never be Basal. Yeah, you could probably Pre-Bolus forever before nothing happened. Am I right about that? Yeah, but now we have a better mix. So, first couple days we had a little trouble because your meals were a little heavy. insulin wise, but you look like I mean, you look like you're fine. To be perfectly honest with you, I think a week from now you're gonna have a incredibly stable line. Do you feel like you understand enough to keep going or do you want to keep Telia for a while?

Katherine 1:20:16
No, I think I understand enough to be able to, to even that line out. No mountains.

Scott Benner 1:20:21
Yeah. Are you proud of yourself?

Katherine 1:20:24
I am very proud of myself.

Scott Benner 1:20:25
Good. Good. You should be this is really astonishing. This graph you just sent me is significantly better than even just the ones from a couple days ago. Because I'm looking back at oh my god yesterday 9:50am. You were still real choppy during the waking hours. You were it was choppy within a good range. Like you were like between 70 and 140. choppy, but you were still going like at 150 Back to at 130 said like you were still up and down, up and down. But this last day is really impressive and overtop of this person's prom, too. I'm really proud of you. This is excellent. Good for you. Thank you. You're welcome. All right. Is there anything else I can fix in your life versus all you got that you need?

Katherine 1:21:13
I think this is it so far.

Scott Benner 1:21:15
Sure. You don't have any passion questions or nothing like that. You want to figure out who the who is before we leave or? I mean, we're done. Katherine, I basically, I, you know, basically, you're good to go. You're, you're doing amazing. You're gonna I assume you'll text me in about a week, and show me a 24 hour graph, where you don't go below 70 or over 120. And you're gonna be like, I got it, Scott. Yep.

Katherine 1:21:42
Yeah, that's the plan.

Scott Benner 1:21:43
Oh, my God, Catherine. I feel like we're I feel like we're connected now.

Katherine 1:21:49
Are like best friend. At the very also here truly.

Scott Benner 1:21:53
I don't want to I don't want to like, like, I'm not reading people. But I interviewed Charlotte Drewery. The other day. Do you know who she is?

Katherine 1:22:02
Yes. She got right before the Olympics, right? Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:22:05
she and I got along so well. She might be my best friend. You might have to be my second best friend or something. I'm okay with that. Yeah, want to hear a funny story? Sure. And then I'm gonna let you go. Because you gotta go. Okay. Okay, I interview Charlotte hour and a half, we have a lovely time. When I start the interview. If I'm being perfectly honest with you, I knew she was like, wanted to be in the Olympics. I didn't know what sport she did. I just kind of figured it out as we were talking. And at the end of the interview, like we're done, right, we stopped the recording. And, and she says, Would you like to meet my partner? And I was like, Yeah, sure. So this, this girl jumps on, and we start talking and everything. And a whole time we're talking I think to myself, back girl looks incredibly familiar. But I don't say anything. And we're just chatting about like their dog sitting or something. And that's what we're talking about. And blah, blah, blah, and we get off later. And like a day later, I think to myself, yo, I think that was Laurie Hernandez, the Olympic gymnast that I was talking to. And you want to know what it was? It was Catherine Oh my god. So so like, then I go to like Google, and I'm like Charlotte Drewery. girlfriend, right? And I'm like, Oh, my like, the whole world knows these two are a couple. I might be the only one who's unaware of it. Right? Like, literally US magazine articles called Laurie Hernandez and Charlotte juries relationship timeline. Like they're like, they're like, famous. And I was just like, so I texted her later. You don't think people mind if you just read their texts? I won't read her side. I'll read mine. I said, Do you think I'm the first person to be introduced the lorry without knowing who she is? Then I sit because later today I said earlier today I said to my wife, I think the trampoline girls partner was on TV. And then my wife's like, What do you mean? I'm like, girl just looks so familiar. I must know her from somewhere. And then last night, my daughter pulls me aside and she's like, Are you an idiot? And I said it's possible. Like it's possible. I am. She was that girl's got like a couple of metals. She's like, look at her. You know who that is? Right? And I was like, oh, yeah, I do. Anyway, anyway, Catherine, are you impressed by this? Like, if Laurie Hernandez would have popped up on the screen was Charlotte, would you have been like, like, Would you like gone crazy and been like, oh my

Katherine 1:24:39
god, I would have been like, starstruck. I really feel like I'm stupid.

Scott Benner 1:24:44
Although, although Charlotte and I had a nice conversation afterwards, because like I told you, we're friends now. And and she said she actually found it refreshing that I didn't want to talk about any of the things that other people want to talk about whether you know me, I'm just sort of like I Talk about the things that I find. Oddly interesting. So, all right. Catherine, do you have any questions about your blood sugar remaining? No, thank

Katherine 1:25:08
you. You're welcome.

Scott Benner 1:25:10
You are so freaking. Are you in my Facebook group? No, I don't have Facebook because you're young. Yeah, you follow me on.

Katherine 1:25:18
I'm not a big social media person. I do follow you on Instagram, but I don't always check Instagram.

Scott Benner 1:25:23
Do I follow you back? I don't think so. I'm gonna follow you back right now while we're talking. Don't tell. Okay, when people don't know your Instagram handle is.

Katherine 1:25:32
That's fine. I won't accept them anyway, if they try to follow me.

Scott Benner 1:25:35
Arden goes, your people try to follow me. I don't even know what that means. what's your what's your handle? How can I find you?

Katherine 1:25:42
Catherine with a k, k th, k t h e r i n e. And

Scott Benner 1:25:47
I'm smart by the way to spell your name. After hearing I couldn't figure out who Laurie Hernandez was when she was three inches in front of my face. Alright, are you

Katherine 1:25:57
might have an underscore. Like after the Gibson

Scott Benner 1:26:02
dance incorporated isn't the thing. Yes, I follow you back. Now if you don't accept my follow. I mean, I'm not gonna be hurt, I'll understand. But, but I'd like to be able to kind of keep up with what you're doing. It'll make me feel like like I have some connection here because I am interested to see how you do. And I am going to I'm going to be about your, your handle because you used your last name and nobody needs to know who you are that much. Yeah, you are terrific. I found you to be incredibly just fun to talk to. I thought it was really impressive. When you were basically in the middle of telling me I'm doing really great with my diabetes. And I said, I don't think you are and you were just like, Wait, what if I didn't find or get weird or odd. I was just very impressed with how you handled the whole exchange. Your parents must be very proud of you. If they're not they're making a mistake.

Thank you. You're very welcome.

First, I want to thank Catherine for coming on the show and having this great conversation and then of course coming back again and finishing it up. And I also want to thank Omni pod makers of the Omni pod dash and the Omni pod five. Head over now to Omni pod.com forward slash juice box. And I also want to thank us met, go to us med.com forward slash juice box or call 888-721-1514 to get your diabetes supplies from us med hope you're enjoying the Juicebox Podcast if you are please share it with someone else who you think might also enjoy it. Or you're listening in a podcast app or other audio app. If you are please hit subscribe and follow. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode.