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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends and welcome to episode 802 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Welcome to the show on today's episode we'll be speaking with Krystal, whose child was diagnosed at eight months old and has had type one diabetes for six years. And she's here today to share that story. While you're listening to it, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan or becoming bold with insulin. If you're a US resident who has type one diabetes, or is the caregiver of someone with type one, the T one D exchange would love it if you could spend fewer than 10 minutes filling out their survey. It exists at T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juice box when you complete the survey, which by the way is completely HIPAA compliant and anonymous. You'll be helping people living with type one diabetes, and you'll be moving diabetes research forward without ever leaving the comfort of your home. T one D exchange.org forward slash juice box

this show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries G voc hypo penne Find out more at G voc glucagon.com. Forward slash Juicebox Podcast is also sponsored today by touched by type one, head over to touched by type one.org. Or find them on Facebook or Instagram to see what they're up to. I'll give you a hint whether up to was helping people with type one diabetes, it's pretty great. They're not asking you for anything, they just want you to come and take a look touched by type one.org. Last but not least, this episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by us med you can get your diabetes supplies the same way my daughter does from us med all you have to do to get started is go to us med.com forward slash juicebox. Or if you prefer, call 888721151. For get your free benefits check today from us med us met.com forward slash juicebox. If you have trouble remembering the sponsors links there at juicebox podcast.com, or in the show notes of the podcast player you're listening in right now, when you click on the links, you're keeping the production of the podcast going and making sure that it remains free for the listeners.

Krystal 2:47
My name is Crystal and I'm the mother of a type one diabetic. And I reached out to you today because I heard your story of Arden. And though my story isn't exactly similar to yours, it just really hit me in the heart because I've been through it. And I know exactly how you feel. So I just kind of wanted to talk about my story today and maybe help other mothers or other parents who are going through it because at the beginning it's really really hard and really, really scary. And right now we're six years in and so far everything's okay. Sugars could be a little bit better, but I mean, we're still healthy. So yeah,

Scott Benner 3:28
tell me tell me I mean something about a something that I've shared struck you what was it?

Krystal 3:37
i You started because it's really like, personal information that you shared. And it might really trigger you actually.

Scott Benner 3:42
Did I say it on the podcast?

Krystal 3:44
Yes, you did. Don't

Scott Benner 3:45
worry. I'm not triggered person. I'll be okay. Okay. Yep.

Krystal 3:49
Okay, because it really like it triggered me and I was like, Oh my God.

Scott Benner 3:53
What do you not want to say? That's okay. Oh, no, no, no,

Krystal 3:56
no, it's okay. It's for you. It's just I don't want to bring back like your memories. You know,

Scott Benner 3:59
don't worry. I've been married for 25 years. Crystal, you can't hurt me.

Krystal 4:04
Okay. So it was a with the episode where you're talking about art. And when she had her seizure at two years old, or two, I think it was right. And she was talking about how she like couldn't see and stuff like that. And like, it just really like struck me like my son has said things like that before, and he was diagnosed So Young as well. And I just really like I was like, Oh my God, you know what I mean? And I heard your story and I listened to a lot of your podcasts. Not all I'm not gonna lie and listen to every single one you have a lot. But I have listened to a lot of them. And I just felt maybe like, you know, I heard you doing interviews with other people with diabetes with people living with people with diabetes and so on and so forth. And I figured, you know, maybe I could share my story, like I said, and just try and reach out to other people. But yeah, that episode were like, you were talking about art and the Having her seizure and you even put the video clip I was a mess. I was crying. I was so emotional and it really hit me deep.

Scott Benner 5:08
Did I put the audio in the episode? Or did I like post the video online for you to find?

Krystal 5:13
I can't. I can't remember exactly. I'm pretty sure you put the audio in your in the episode because I don't think I did any further searching other than just playing like the next episode on my podcast.

Scott Benner 5:24
Okay. Okay, then. Yeah, so for people who are listening now. We were, what were we doing? We're videotaping Arden for something. Yeah. And it wasn't about that. It was about something completely different. Or no, that's not even true. We did we have video cameras up. I know this is people are like, Why do you need a video camera? Because my phone has but back then there was no video? Yeah, first of all, there were no cell phones. But that's not the point. I had a video camera that was set up already. And it wasn't on and on. and I were talking about something. And she began to talk about what it was like to have a seizure. And I just pushed record on the camera and just let it run. And she didn't really know for a while that it was running. And it was interesting because she was so young. She described things. Gosh, this is going back in my memory. I saw exactly I saw colors, which I took I took them in like she was she wasn't seeing anything blocked. Like she was blind. She wasn't seeing she thought she sounded like a monster. And that's because she was grunting it like she had not lost the ability to speak during it. And she thought the colors were pretty Am I remember in this right? That she was saying?

Krystal 6:46
I don't remember exactly. Because it was a while ago that I had listened to the to the podcast. Yeah. But it was just it was genuinely about that. And I know you had also posted, I think a video or you were talking about posting a video or something of that, about where you were fighting a scary low, like, on the camera. Yeah. And he decided to post it. And that one really hit me deep too. And that was really the one that really made me like, reach out to you because those I've had.

Scott Benner 7:14
You've had you've had so tell me a little bit you have type one?

Krystal 7:17
Yes. No, my son is a type one. Okay. Yeah.

Scott Benner 7:20
How old was he, when he was diagnosed?

Krystal 7:23
He was eight months old. So he was the youngest child ever to be diagnosed in the hospital that he's followed up. And he was really like an anomaly. And we were seeing, I mean, he still has his whole diabetes team and everything. But at the beginning of his diagnosis, like everybody in the hospital was interested in him. And for the first good like, year, we weren't left alone because everyone wants to know when see this like special case, because it had only happened like once before that a child that young had the diagnosis in his in his hospital, you know? And so, yeah, we've we've been doing this for about six years. And well, he was really really hard in the beginning. Sorry, go what?

Scott Benner 8:05
I was gonna say being the youngest ever did they have trouble helping him? Did they not know quite what to do? Or did it seem like they had it under control?

Krystal 8:33
No, they kind of sent us away from the house we spent. So he was diagnosed, he was brought to the hospital because he was in really, really bad DKA. And he was in a coma for about two, two and a half days. And when we when we were told his diagnosis, they basically just told me it was a waiting game to see if he ever woke up again. Oh my god. Yeah. It was really scary. And I'll never forget the feeling of watching my son, my infant son just crying and screaming because he was terrified. And then he just passed out in my arms. And he, they were like, well, we're gonna see if he wakes up and I was like, Excuse me What? You know. So yeah, it was really, really, really traumatizing.

Scott Benner 9:18
Can you tell me do you remember what his blood sugar was?

Krystal 9:21
33 Mm. Oh, well, I don't know what that is in America.

Scott Benner 9:25
Version chart on my website. I'll go look real quick. Okay. juicebox podcast.com. Like glucose calculator. So many animals. It was 3305 94.

Krystal 9:39
Yeah, yeah. Thanks for an eight months old. You know what I mean? Of course. Yeah. And I know that his agency was around 11 or 12 when he first got diagnosed. And so he was he was really I

Scott Benner 9:57
you mind picking through it a little bit. So is he your No, no, go ahead. You're first second, third child.

Krystal 10:01
Yeah, he's my only child. Okay. And

Scott Benner 10:05
yeah, go so healthy up until you noticed what?

Krystal 10:11
Well, so when he was born, they told me that his sugars were high, but not high enough to be concerned. So I was like, Okay, well, that's weird. And we were, we were kept in the hospital for five days because he was really, really badly jaundice. He was, like, premature by like one day. So like, technically a full term is 38 weeks. And he was born at 37 weeks and six days. So he's technically premature, but one day, so I have no idea. But that is like anything for account like to, you know what I mean? And so when he was born, they told me that he sugars were really high. And they kept us there for five days because he was jaundice. And they monitors his levels constantly. And then by the time we were released from the hospital, they told us that it was okay, but just maybe to come back and check every now and then because after where I live, six weeks after we have a checkup, the nurse comes to our house and checks on the baby checks on us and stuff like that. And they checked his his blood gas levels and they were okay. She said, so, so left it at that,

Scott Benner 11:14
at the time of his birth. Did anyone mention diabetes or use? No,

Krystal 11:18
not at all? No, not at all even. Okay, so then when he was around two, three months old, he started having seizures. And I couldn't figure out why. They weren't normal seizures like you see in a TV, his arm would start shaking while he was nursing. And then his other arm arm would start shaking and then his whole body would be like convulsing, but just lightly, you know what I mean? So at first I figured maybe it was just like weird. Babies spasms, you know how babies don't have control of their muscles. And I was like, that's a little weird, but it's okay. So I didn't really do anything about it for a couple of weeks, until I was nursing him one day, and he had like a full on convulsion. And so I recorded it. Because his his seizures were so few and far in between. There was never any consistency. And so I recorded that like really bad convulsion because his whole body was trembling, and he was shaking while he was nursing. And so when I brought him to the hospital, they put on a hemorrhage, the ECG or EKG, the one that goes on the head to map to map the brainwaves. So they do watch his brainwaves. His brainwaves were normal. And then so they sent me home and never called me back. And that really makes me angry. Because we have a three month old having a seizure. And because it's brainwave is normal, they didn't offer to check anything else. And so I went home with this child who is seething and yeah, that was pretty much it. I was told that he was okay, there was nothing wrong. And so I kind of lived with him until he was about seven, eight months old. Having these seizures every now and then. And he was a really, like, he would cry a lot as a baby, which I kind of just chalked up to being colicky. You know, that's like a normal thing. But in hindsight, I realized that he was uncomfortable because he was literally starving to death because the sugars were too high. Because he would nurse all the time, all day, all day, all day, like all day, long all night. And when he started eating food, he would eat, eat, eat and chug water like I've never seen, right. And so I realized now in hindsight, that it was because he was a diabetic, you know what I mean? How old were

Scott Benner 13:22
you when you had him?

Krystal 13:24
I was 21.

Scott Benner 13:25
Okay, on your own or with somebody?

Krystal 13:31
Well, I was with someone, but I was essentially on my own. Okay. That's what I mean.

Scott Benner 13:36
Well, because the only reason I asked you you said something that made it sound like you were by yourself. And I don't remember what it was. And I, and what I what I was gonna say is that it's sometimes in those really confusing situations, it's very helpful to be able to bounce it off of somebody and be like, this seems weird, right? You know, looking back, how old is he now?

Krystal 13:55
Now? He's seven. No, sorry, six. He'll be seven soon.

Scott Benner 13:58
Okay. Looking back now, do you think he had diabetes his whole life? Do you think he was born yet? Yep.

Krystal 14:04
Entirely. I not. When I was pregnant with him, I got really, really, really huge. And I was insanely swollen, like record levels swollen. I didn't have gestational diabetes, but I was like, on the brink of that and preeclampsia. And I believe that those conditions in me kind of maybe triggered it and him. Yeah, if you understand what I mean, because he was born.

Scott Benner 14:30
I don't know. I mean, that goes beyond my understanding. But I but it just sounds to me like if his blood sugar was elevated when he was born, and then there's this constant, being uncomfortable. CO some seizures, constant nursing. I mean, it sounds like it sounds like diabetes, you know? Yeah. diagnosed.

Krystal 14:52
Yeah. And makes me feel like a terrible person. And I know that I shouldn't feel like a terrible person because I'm like, you know, I'm not going to judge myself for mistakes. I made you know, but the worst part is I was raised with diabetic parents. And I was raised to recognize the signs and symptoms, but I didn't think it was possible in the baby. I knew as possible in a child, but I didn't know it was possible in infants. So every single time he came up with a new symptom, I just dismissed it. Like when he used to wet through his diapers that night, I would put him to super heavy like, reusable diapers. So they were like, big, thick cloth. Yeah. And he would pee right through them in like two hours. And I was like, Well, maybe he just went to bed super heavy. You know what I mean? And everything that he came up with, I just blew it off. And now I look in hindsight, and I realized how many symptoms you have for so long. until they finally like was on death's door. You know what I mean?

Scott Benner 15:40
Yeah, Crystal, it's a little hard to hear you with the voice behind me one

Krystal 15:44
second. Sure. I'm gonna mute the sound for one second. I'm gonna move somewhere else.

Scott Benner 15:54
That's fine. Thank you

while crystal finds a quieter place, I have time to do this. G voc hypo pan has no visible needle, and is a premixed auto injector of glucagon for treatment of very low blood sugar. In adults and kids with diabetes ages two and above. Find out more go to Jeeva glucagon.com forward slash juicebox. G voc shouldn't be used in patients with insulinoma or pheochromocytoma. Visit G voc glucagon.com/risk. So the fact is, we all need medical supplies, but it's not a fact that getting them needs to be difficult. And instead of doing a classic us med add, today, I'm going to tell you a story. Arden's home from school and she's sick. Turns out she may have a sinus infection, and she's pretty wrecked. So we got out Arden's blood ketone meter to make sure that she doesn't develop ketones while she's fighting this illness. And she doesn't feel well. I mean, she's beat up, she's feverish and has a headache and her nose is full, she can't breathe. And I say to her, Listen, let's check your ketones to make sure. Well, after about the fourth or fifth time that the test trip wouldn't work, she was getting sick and tired of it. We had poked our finger like five times. And each time, nothing happened. And I was irritated. And I felt like an idiot. I was like what's going wrong here. But you know what was going wrong. Our old supplier sent us the wrong test strips. And they were in a box that was so similar to the correct test strips, none of us noticed. Now, when you think of why you might want to use us Med, you know, they've asked me to tell you about always having fast and free shipping, they always provide 90 days worth of supplies. They accept Medicare nationwide, and over 800 private insurers you know, I tell you about their A plus rating with the Better Business Bureau, etc, etc. They've got FreeStyle Libre three and Dexcom G six, and you can get Omni pod from there in tandem and blah, blah, I tell you that stuff all the time, right? Here's what I don't tell you is that when your kid is sick, and everybody is just on edge, it's nice to reach into a drawer and pull out the thing you expected to have. That's it. Us med.com forward slash juice box. We've been using them for quite some time now. It's a lovely experience. I hope you give them a try. You can also call 888-721-1514. Call today or go online, get your free benefits check and get started with us, man. I know it sounds like Oh, I gotta switch everything over and it's gonna suck and everything. But doesn't it suck now with whoever you're using it? Maybe it doesn't. And if it doesn't, you know what, fine, don't switch. But if you're fighting constantly with your diabetes supply distributor, do yourself a favor and check out us met. I'm gonna get you back to Crystal. Now she does find a quieter spot. But I first want to remind you that if you need any of the things that were mentioned today by the advertisers using my link supports the show. That's it. I don't make money every time you buy something or anything like that. It's as easy as if the advertisers see people coming through the podcast. They buy more ads, when they buy more ads. I can spend my whole life sitting here in front of this microphone, making a podcast for you. So if you have the need, please use my legs. Thank you very much

Krystal 20:01
Okay, I don't know if this is any better. Oh. I found a quiet hallway. But there's there's resents on a second.

Scott Benner 20:15
Is it still too loud for you? No, that's good. Okay, so I'm gonna stay here, then it's isolated. Not much is going on here. Cool. Tell people you're running from the law. Is that correct? Yeah,

Krystal 20:28
no. No, just trying to find a quiet area and a really big industrial office building.

Scott Benner 20:35
Well, that sounds good. Thank you. Well, I was gonna ask you, what do you mean, you grew up with parents with diabetes?

Krystal 20:45
So my mom was a type one diabetic, and my father was a type one diabetic. Wow. And yeah.

Scott Benner 20:52
each other and a type one diabetes mixture or something like that?

Krystal 20:55
No, no, no. My My father was diagnosed as a child and my mother gotten diagnosed in her 20s

Scott Benner 21:03
I think were they together when that happened? Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah, that really is crazy. Okay, so you. Alright, so let's take a little bit of a detour. What was it like growing up with two type ones as parents?

Krystal 21:19
I mean, that's a really loaded question. My mother was always sick, her diabetes really wasn't controlled, like, at all. So I was 10 when my mother died. So I don't really know exactly the truth of what happened, and so on and so forth. Like, I can't give you that much information. Because I was a kid, you know what I mean, but I know I grew up with her always, always sick, always in the hospital always vomiting. I know that she died in 2003. And before that, she was she had a pancreas transplant, and she had all kinds of organ transplants. And basically, just over time, her body was shutting down because it was poorly managed. Now, I don't know what happened to make it that way. Because like I said, I was a kid, you know, I didn't exactly ask questions, right. And as for my father, he was he took good care of himself. And he's still alive.

Scott Benner 22:16
Do you think like, with hindsight, I don't know if you have you had conversations with your father? Was it just mismanagement for your mom?

Krystal 22:24
No, I don't really speak to my father. Oh, okay. All right.

Scott Benner 22:27
Well, that's even something so Does your father know your your son has type one? Yep,

Krystal 22:33
he does. He was there when he got diagnosed. Okay, all right.

Scott Benner 22:37
Gotcha. Wow, Crystal, you're a little, you're a little puzzle. Okay, well see if we can put the pieces together. So you talked about feeling badly. And I would, you know, probably not be the first person to tell you that that's not really a reasonable thing to, you know, to feel 20 You're 21 Sounds like you're pretty much on your own. Just because you knew some of the signs of diabetes doesn't. I mean, who would think of it?

Krystal 23:10
Even? Well, it's because when I was a kid, every time I went to the washroom a lot or something like that, or if I was excessively certain my parents would check my shoulders as I can to make sure that I didn't get it. You know, my brother also has has diabetes, as well as my uncle. So it's all of my family. Hey,

Scott Benner 23:27
tell me again. Your mom was How old was she got

Krystal 23:29
it? She was in her 20s I believe I'm not sure. If I understood correctly. I think she got it as gestational diabetes, and it just never went away. Or something like that. And then it turned into type one. I honestly don't know. Like I said I was 10 when she died. So I didn't really get the whole story.

Scott Benner 23:45
It was just Do you have any autoimmune issues yourself? No, not that I know of. Okay. Hashimotos. No, thyroid, nothing. Okay. gluten allergy? No, no. Okay. All right. Interesting. Very interesting. Actually, Crystal, you really are something here. Hold on a second. So. And you're French Canadian? Yes. Yeah. Okay. Are you around Toronto?

Krystal 24:13
No, but um, the next big metropolitan city. Gotcha. And the French speaking one.

Scott Benner 24:17
Gotcha. I think I know, I you know, this podcast teaches me a lot about Canada. Sometimes not all accurate stuff, but I still learn things. Okay, so babies diagnosed. Okay, I guess we're at the point where they took him from you and said, Let's see if he wakes up. Obviously he did. But how long did that take?

Krystal 24:38
It took about two days, two and a half days. I can't really remember. All I know is that I was walking around his crib at the emergency room just bawling my eyes out. I didn't sleep for days. And we stayed we stayed in the ICU for about two or three days until he woke up and then we were transferred to a regular room where we stayed there for five days while they got his shirt because I'm the controls So sorry.

Scott Benner 25:00
And then how do you manage an eight month old? Is it with injections?

Krystal 25:06
Yeah, he's still on an injection. Now he's too scared to get the pump. So I mean, it's his disease. I'm gonna let him wait until he's ready. We finally got him on a Dexcom this year, thank Jesus, because that made my life so much easier.

Scott Benner 25:17
So So for six years, almost he was just doing shots and using the meter. Yeah. And how was that going?

Krystal 25:28
To be honest, I really liked the meter better than the Dexcom. Okay, because, I guess because I'm used to it. And usually when I see on the Dexcom, that he is going high, or that he's going low. I really, really overcompensate. So I'll give him too much insulin and he'll drop down too fast or give me too much food. He shoots up way too high, because I'm scared watching it beep and go down and go up. You know what I mean? So with the meter, I never had that fear. You know what I mean? I just waited till the next time I print them. And we'll see where it is. Numbers are. But at the same time, I do love the fact that I can watch him in the night with my Dexcom because I used to get up every night. You're breaking

Unknown Speaker 26:06
up. And Crystal. Yeah. Can

Scott Benner 26:10
you hear me? You're breaking up a little bit.

Krystal 26:14
Good now,

Scott Benner 26:15
I don't know you're talking and disappearing and then coming back.

Krystal 26:19
Hold on a second. Is it good enough?

Scott Benner 26:24
I can't say that was good, though. It sounded like a week. By the time this is over, you're gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna be on the roof.

Krystal 26:36
I'm gonna unplug. My thing is like I'm back in Hold on a second. Okay. Is it okay now?

Scott Benner 26:45
I think so. You were in the middle of you're in the middle of explain to me why you don't like the Dexcom as much as the meter. But it sounded like you're just overreacting to what you're seeing.

Krystal 26:54
Yes, exactly. But however, I really do like the fact that with the Dexcom in the night I can I can check him I can check his sugar's without having to get out of my bed and stuff like that, without pricking him. I like the fact that I don't have to hurt him every time I want to check him, you know. And before that, every single night, I will get up to three times and like to check your sugar just to make sure he wasn't dropping or anything like that. And so now with the Dexcom it's really saved me, it's just me, I have to get used to the patterns and the roller coaster rides. You know what I mean?

Scott Benner 27:25
Yeah, just trying to, you know, just don't overcompensate or under compensate. Well, so, can I ask you like a management question? Are there a lot of ups and ups and downs?

Krystal 27:35
Yeah, there are I still don't have good control. Okay.

Scott Benner 27:39
So, you know, I mean, I think if you're looking for my opinion, you would start by making sure that his Basal insulin is good, how much does he why he weighs

Krystal 27:49
about 50 pounds. And he takes seven units of basil, which apparently is like a lot. And his, his nutritionist hates me because of the way I run, not because of the way I run sugar, but the way I deal with services. She can't stand it but doesn't like every time I tried to her way his sugar like sky high to the point that his Dexcom doesn't even read it. So I just keep doing my way and do the best that I can. So

Scott Benner 28:12
yeah, I mean, listen, I'm not there. Obviously, I have no first hand knowledge of what's been happening. But I mean, if his Basal was more like, point three an hour, that would make more sense to me. So but yeah, but wait, wait, hold on a second. That's where you're at now, seven divided by 24 is point three.

Unknown Speaker 28:38
But if we did see Actually, wait a minute.

Scott Benner 28:45
It is 50 pounds.

Krystal 28:47
Yeah, around there. 50 or 53.

Scott Benner 28:53
Okay, let me ask you some questions over overnight this he said stable? Yeah.

Krystal 28:59
What doesn't? What number depends on when he goes to bed.

Scott Benner 29:03
So if he goes to bed at it, it stays at it. Yeah,

Krystal 29:07
if he goes to bed at like, say I'll put him to bed at seven whatever. It will stay at seven he'll drop down to maybe five and then they'll start going back up around after the dawn phenomenon. He goes back up. Okay, which is usually around three four in the morning for

Scott Benner 29:18
us. So a sevens like a 126 here in the States. What if you put him to bed at a six? Would he stay the six? Yeah, okay. Yeah, usually, but same thing if you put him to bed at a 10 He'd stay at a 10 Yeah. All right. So you think his Basil is probably pretty good. Yeah. And so then just Where are you falling short?

Krystal 29:42
Are you issues with that? It's was eating because he's so difficult to get to eat. And he really loves to do this thing where he asks for the food, and I'm making the food. And then as soon as I give him the insulin, he doesn't want it.

Scott Benner 29:58
Kids. Alright, See ya. See, there's a spot where if you had a pump, you could like Bolus Bolus a little bit. And then once you knew he was eating, give him the rest.

Krystal 30:11
Yeah, that's why I want to. That's why I want the pump. And like I said, it's his body. He's afraid he doesn't want and I'm not going to force it on him. You know,

Scott Benner 30:18
is there any amount of intake that you can always count on? Like, even if the meals 50 carbs? Can you count on at least 10 of

Unknown Speaker 30:27
them going in? No, not not consistently. Okay. So

Scott Benner 30:31
you're not Pre-Bolus eating meals. So you're spiking? Hi, do you

Krystal 30:35
and then dropping down after I used to Pre-Bolus meals last year, he was really good at eating. And so last year, I had really fantastic control, right is a onesie from the year before was at No, not even year before the the month before. was, I think nine or 10. And then I had gotten it down to seven. And which is

Scott Benner 30:57
that's, that's a nice reduction to from nine to 10 to seven. Really wonderful.

Krystal 31:02
Yeah. And so last year was fantastic. And then this year, he started this whole eating phase and then now he only wants like to eat sugar and stuff like that, because he knows that if I give him the answer, that's what he's getting guaranteed.

Scott Benner 31:15
So right now he's spiking up, crashing down, you're overcome your overtreating the low, and send them back. So you're just jumping up and down all day long. Yeah, pretty much. So the first meal is the end of the day. It just ruins everything until you get all the food out of him. Get him stay at home, put him to bed.

Krystal 31:34
Yeah, gotcha. And also the physical activity. Some days he's running around and climbing my walls. Other days. He's just sitting there watching TV. So yeah, it's hard. It's hard to have a six year old.

Scott Benner 31:45
No, I don't disagree. It is. It's not easy. And I guess it gives me like I said, with a pump, you could at least put a little bit in and stop the big spike. But, you know, in order to do that with MDI, you have to shoot him twice. Does he mind the shots?

Krystal 32:05
Yes, I know. He says. He says no, but I heard him sometimes, like when I give him the injections, I can see that there hurts him. But I know that he says no, just because he's afraid.

Scott Benner 32:17
You think he doesn't want to make you feel bad? Yeah. Well, I mean, you know the answer. So the rest of it's him wanting to eat more, you know, consistently, I guess. I'm sorry that that's a struggle. I do think he'll get a little older and it'll stop. I was gonna say, I wonder if he didn't. I mean, he's so young, though. Like, I don't know how easy it is to like, explain big ideas to a six year old. I don't remember anymore. But, you know, like, what if you said to him, Look, it's fine if you don't need everything, but you know, we're just going to, we're going to inject twice then to be sure I don't get you too high or too low. I wonder if eventually he wouldn't just i Sounds kind of I don't know how that sounds, actually. But I wonder if to avoid the second shot. If he wouldn't just eat his lunch eggs, for example. Now, he wouldn't. He wouldn't care. So he's the not hungry, or is he distracted?

Krystal 33:15
Sure. Justice as good as mine.

Scott Benner 33:19
I gotcha. Well, good luck. Thank you. No trouble? Is there a lot of I'm trying to figure out what made you so emotional hearing about Ardennes? Well,

Krystal 33:33
it was like I said, it was really just hearing about the lowest and the like, the scary low because I've had those so many times. I've luckily avoided seizures after his diagnosis. But like, it just brought back my own memories of the times that I've had to shove everything I could find in his mouth while he's, like half conscious. And it just it really like it really just made me want to reach out and just kind of say, you know, I feel you and to let others hear my story about how many times I've shoved things in his mouth while he was dropping down to the floor. And, you know, let's just basically I want to let other parents know that it's normal to be scared, and that it's gonna take time to get used to it because I see on all these Facebook groups and stuff like that the support groups, all these parents saying like, Oh, is it ever gonna get better and it doesn't, but you learn to adjust, you know what I mean? And I was actually recommended your podcast in one of those Facebook groups. And I'd say for me, personally, it took about two years to feel comfortable, like okay, and four years to feel confident. Now I changed his his ratios and his doses and stuff like that myself. I don't call his team anymore, because I know what I'm doing. You know what I mean? But it just, it was just really like, emotional for me to live. Cindy, you, when you were talking about with the video, and you caught the low while you were feeding, you were like feeding her and you decided to post on your website or whatever. And like I've been there, done that. And

Scott Benner 35:11
it's so much more difficult when they're that small to right. I mean, at eight months old at eight months old, what did he weigh?

Krystal 35:19
Got 17 to 20 pounds, maybe

Scott Benner 35:23
right? And then probably didn't gain that much weight over the next year or so

Krystal 35:28
even? No. I mean, now it's 60 is only 50 pounds.

Scott Benner 35:31
Right? Very small to begin with. Do you ever have his thyroid

Krystal 35:33
checked? Yep. Every year at his annual checkup?

Scott Benner 35:37
Would you tell me what his TSH is? Do you know?

Krystal 35:40
I don't know. Sorry. Everything's normal, though. She told me Yeah, he told me the number but last time, but I can't remember.

Scott Benner 35:45
Do me a favor. The next time you dig out that number? If it's over two, but they're calling it normal? Why don't you press them to medicate him? I know they want to call that normal. But over to like over 2.1 There's a thyroid episode you could listen to that would tell you, but over about 2.1 2.2 If he could be having symptoms, and you would know and and I'll tell you that Arden was the tiniest person in her school. And then we figured out she had thyroid issue she got on the thyroid replacement. And that she's like, Ardens, five, seven now. But at 1011 12 years old, Arden was like five, three, she had like 75 pounds. Okay, and so I just know that a lot of doctors will say no, that's in range. Like they'll call a four TSH is in range. Because I guess technically it is in it's in the it's in the it's in range. There are some hospitals that won't medicate it to like an eight. Which is which is insane. But, you know, who knows? Like, I wonder if I don't know, I could be completely wrong. But I would check if I were to show.

Unknown Speaker 37:06
Okay, that's all all last time I go. Yeah. And

Scott Benner 37:10
if it comes back higher than two or so and you like write me out. I'll I'll point you to the right stuff and, and let you make a decision for yourself. But you know, I mean, is the lethargic. Does he lose his hair? Does he have trouble? Is he constipated? No, none of that. No. Okay, good. Well, that's good. May I? Maybe I'm 100%. Wrong. That'd be great. If I was. Yeah, right. You need some of that go? Good. Do you worry about getting diabetes?

Krystal 37:40
Yeah, I do. I mean, it's all in my family. And I'm not gonna lie. I don't have the best eating habits. So I know. I'm not helping myself. So I am worried. But at least if ever I do get it, I'll have him by my side with me. You know?

Scott Benner 37:53
Well, yeah, you can definitely do it together, that's for sure. But with both of your parents having it, and your mom having the end that she had, and your son and your son getting I just wondered like if you, you know, if it was something you worried about? Would you call it a constant concern or just something you're aware of?

Krystal 38:10
No, just something I'm aware of. Okay. I don't really live my life worrying like that. If it comes to comes and I'll live with it when I have to.

Scott Benner 38:17
Gotcha. Well, you'll definitely know when it happens. If it happens. Excuse me. You've got enough. You've got enough practice. Thanks for your wishful thinking, Oh, well, I'm sorry. I just misspoke. I don't necessarily think you're getting diabetes. Is it difficult? How are you finding school? He just must have started school recently. Right? Well, you are gone. Your voice disappeared. Crystal, you're not there right now.

Krystal 38:47
Can you hear me? Okay. It's it was difficult, but they take really good care of his diabetes. The only thing that's kind of enraging for me is that we don't really have any like train staff. There's no nurse, there's no nothing like that. I know in the States, you guys have like your 504 plans or whatever it is. But we don't really have that here, at least not that I know of. We have our Canadian equivalent, but it doesn't really do. Much like in the states that is really a lot more severe. And, I mean, the staff that are there, they do the best that they can, but I just really wish we could have someone like on him 24/7 So that way, it's not.

Scott Benner 39:26
How does it work then? Because he's six, I mean, he he's given himself shots.

Krystal 39:30
Yes, at the moment, he gives it to himself.

Scott Benner 39:33
Do you guys go back and forth, like through text or something?

Krystal 39:36
No, we call his school at lunchtime. And he goes actually his father's calling right now because I'm on issue as far as calling right now, and he's going to tell the nurse to put him on the phone, not nurse. Sorry, the Secretary put him on the phone. Right. And then he gives it himself. And that's it. That's it.

Scott Benner 39:55
If this is too personal, don't answer me but are you and his father together? No, no. Okay. Do you split time with him? Does he go to? Is the management? Does the management change? from one home to the other? Yeah. How? So? If you're able to say,

Krystal 40:16
yes, the sugars, His Father's house are much more out of control than my house, because I don't really allow snacking in my house. And he does. And also, I don't really give a lot of junk food. And he kind of just looks like, whatever and deal with the consequences later. So

Scott Benner 40:38
there's nothing There's, is that a conversation? Have you ever had a conversation with them? And

Unknown Speaker 40:43
oh, yeah, okay. Yeah.

Scott Benner 40:46
doesn't help much. No, no. It's a very common issue. I know that for sure.

Krystal 40:56
However, my wife takes better control of his sugars, and I do. It's like she was born to be his mother. I don't understand. She's phenomenal with the sugars.

Scott Benner 41:05
Okay. Oh, so there is somebody who is she mostly who's mostly involved when when he's with you? Okay,

Krystal 41:15
yeah, his father just calls the school because he has the time.

Scott Benner 41:21
That sounds that statement sounds like there's a half an hour worth of complaining you could do afterwards. He has the time. That's not why we're here. So we'll skip over that. But you made me laugh some other story. Yeah. You made me laugh when you said that. I was like, Oh, I think I know what she means by that. Sorry, hold on. You took me by surprise. Give me a ticket. You took me by surprise. That was great. Okay, that's funny. So do you think he'll go for a pump? Or like, what's his, what's his what's holding him back at this point?

Krystal 42:09
I don't know. I hope he will, eventually, one day because he has the Dexcom. And I know that he's happier that we don't prick him as often, I still do check them sometimes just to make sure that it's accurate. And sometimes if his Dexcom is having a sensor fail, I'll use a thing until it comes back online or until I change it, whatever. So I know he's happier that he has to be pricked less. And I'm trying to get him to understand that, you know, my son is like, really, really sensitive to carbs. And if I give him like 10 carbs, he's gonna jump up, which isn't much, you know what I mean? Yeah. So for every time I feed him, I have to give him insulin and then give them insulin again, to correct after and, you know, I mean, it's definitely that so

Scott Benner 42:52
have you told him that, like, have you gone through it and said, Hey, if we had a pump, we wouldn't do the shots and you tell him it would be easier to snack?

Krystal 43:02
You know what, I might bring that up? I might help actually, there's always hungry. This kid is like a 16 year old and a six year old body? I don't understand.

Scott Benner 43:10
Well, yeah, maybe maybe that would help him like, just kind of, I don't know, just get a clear, like big picture understanding of the whole thing. I mean, you just have to find a way to say it to him, that he understands. Yeah, that matters to him. You know, forget understanding. He's probably understanding what you're saying he doesn't care. You know, you get a fine, get a fight. Like, I'd be like, hey, you know, when this happens, and we don't, we don't do this. It's because we have to inject and but I don't know what you could do to get them moving in that direction? Because the truth is, I mean, listen, if you put a pump on him, and he hated it, I don't imagine you'd make him stay on it. But no, of course not. Yeah. I think that my expectation would be that once he gets on it, you know, a week or two later, he's not going to remember not wanting it.

Krystal 43:58
Yeah, that's true. That's kind of what we did with Dexcom kind of just forced him on and I said, Listen, just try it for a week. Yeah, he don't like it. We can take it off on he's he likes it. Now. It doesn't even hurt him to put her on his crazy, big needle in this tiny little body. And I'm like, wow, you just take it like a champ.

Scott Benner 44:12
Yeah, no, I hear what you're saying. I have to tell you, like, you know, what I usually say on the podcast is I you know, I'm not into letting kids make medical decisions. I mean, I don't want to do something they absolutely don't want to do but a lot of times, you know, kids just you know, listen, I'm saying kids people in general, forget. You know, everybody's resistant to change. I mean, if you want to make people like you know, make an adult upset change the way Facebook looks people like lose their minds. Oh my god, right. They

Unknown Speaker 44:43
moved them Yeah. Why

Scott Benner 44:45
did they change the color? Where's this that like, it's good think that you think it was the end of the world? And, and I think that everyone's like that. I think change is hard for people. But the truth is, I don't know. You know, I've been through a lot of bad things in my life. And in this moment, I don't remember any of them. So, yeah, right. So, you know, here's the pump, we're wearing it. What what makes this right for your kid? I start dealing dollar bills into his hand or not dollar for putting out loonies up there or something like that. I just start ripping those loonies into his hands. He looked happy. He was like, Are you go where? You're fine. We'll go out and spend this money afterwards. Get yourself something nice kid. It's a good idea. Yeah. I'm, I'm I'm okay with bribing children, certain situations. I mean, not for everything. But any, because if he could put him in a position where he didn't understand it, you know, maybe a week or two later and say, Hey, isn't this great? We haven't stuck you with a needle and you know, forever. Yeah, he might be, he might be thrilled by it. And then all of a sudden, you can Pre-Bolus your meals better, then all of a sudden, you can you know, it just changes everything. Yeah.

Krystal 45:57
So I've heard, yeah, I'm also going to, I'm also not going to lie. I'm a little afraid of the pump, too, just because I'm afraid of pump failures. But I know what the Dexcom I don't have to like, worry about that. Because I'll see if there's a pump failure. I'll see his sugar's rising. Yeah. But that was always a fear of mine, too. So I understand his fear. But I also think that it would be better if he did you know, I mean, at least try.

Scott Benner 46:19
It's so interesting, because that is everyone's

Unknown Speaker 46:24
fear. Yeah, because it's terrifying.

Scott Benner 46:27
Except Did you ever see it? Like, like, when's the last time you like, pop them to like a Facebook group? And you heard about the scores and scores of people whose pumps failed all the time? You don't? I mean, like, it doesn't really happen with any great frequent. I mean, I listen, I oversee a Facebook group with like, 25,000 people in it. Well, I don't know the last time I saw somebody say, hey, my pump stopped working. And I didn't get insulin, and I went into DKA. I haven't, like I get the concern. But to your point, you're always aware of was blood sugar is with the Dexcom you're not gonna get too far away from not having insulin before you know it. Sure. Yeah. That's all I mean, I get the concern. But I don't think it's gonna really rear its head in your life,

Krystal 47:11
though. Yeah, it's like a one in a million chance.

Scott Benner 47:13
I don't know that. I don't know the odds, Crystal, but I think it's uncommon. I mean, yeah, at least in my experience. I mean, art has been using an omni pod. So that's the one I want. Okay. Well, there you go. She's been using it on the pod since she's four. She's almost 18. So that's 14 years. And we once had a bent cannula where she wasn't getting enough insulin. And her blood sugar was rising. We saw that it was rising. I'd happen overnight. We did sleep through it for a little bit. We got we got her up. We over hydrated her got her ketones back down again, and you know, put a new pump on her. And but my point is, is that I mean, what is my point Hold on, I'm gonna pull up. I'm gonna pull up a calculator here to make my point. Arden has been using it basically for 14 years, right? There was 365 days in a year. You put a pod on about every three days. So divided by three were 121 pods a year, times 14 years Ardennes were about 1700 pods, and one of them had a bent cannula.

Krystal 48:24
You know, I'm saying when you put it that way, it's a lot less scary.

Scott Benner 48:26
You mean you mean when you think about it realistically? I think I mean, to me, that's that. I don't know. I get the pump. I don't look

Unknown Speaker 48:34
back, but we'll see. I'll bring it up to him tonight. Yeah.

Scott Benner 48:39
Listen, tell him the guy on the podcast. He don't know. It's,

Krystal 48:43
I guess I'll have to show him the podcast as proof.

Scott Benner 48:45
2022 people on Tik Tok look famous to him. You know what I'm saying? I was I saw something the other day this girl? I don't know. Crystal. Listen, it seems to me that girls on Tiktok are making money bouncing up and down. That seems to be what's happening. And I saw a video somewhere I don't. And my daughter's like, what is that? I'm like, I don't know. I'm like, What is this girl doing? And she goes, Oh, I think she's trying to make money. And I was like, gotcha. And then she goes is that and then she says the girl's name. And I'm like, you know that person? And she's like, I don't know or know her. But I know her name. I'm like, you know, you know someone's name because they wear a loose shirt and bounce up and down on Tik Tok. And she's like, Yeah, like the world's very strange. You know how hard George Clooney had to work to be George Clooney. You know what I mean? Yeah, turns out now,

Krystal 49:39
nowadays, the internet blows up with the most random things possible. Super easy. I'm

Scott Benner 49:43
just saying you let my voice come out of a speaker. That kid will think oh, I have to listen to him. It's ridiculous. But what the heck.

Krystal 49:54
If it works, it works.

Scott Benner 49:55
Listen, there I go with what works. Crystal tell me Is there is there any Anything that we haven't talked about that you want to?

Unknown Speaker 50:03
I'm

Krystal 50:06
not I can think of I spoke about his diagnosis. I spoke about his scary lows.

Scott Benner 50:16
I do want to dig a little more into that if you feel comfortable that we've gone. Okay, so from eight months, Josh Jesus and this crazy eight months old to six or seven years, almost seven year saying, Yeah, okay, so basically six ish years a little more the kids had diabetes. But you've been through so many different versions of type one, like with an infant, with a toddler, with a young child like it's just, it probably feels like you've started over a half a dozen times.

Krystal 50:48
Yeah, it's, it's really hard, every growth spurt that he goes to, it's like, I'm back at the beginning. And I have no idea what to do. Because the insulin, the hormones, change the insulin so much, and sometimes it gets used up like crazy. And I can give him no one's live and he'll be dropping most fast. Other days I can give him like so much insulin and it goes nowhere.

Scott Benner 51:11
It's it really is like, I'm just thinking about it. You really have. You've raised like, three or four different people with diabetes already. Like seriously, you don't I mean, like, and it's going to keep changing.

Krystal 51:24
Like it was so scary for when he's a teenager.

Scott Benner 51:27
Yeah, when you're 40 you're gonna have the wisdom of like, 100 year old person.

Krystal 51:33
That's just on my life experiences alone, not including him.

Scott Benner 51:36
Well, we haven't gotten into that yet. But but I just like, I mean, how many lows Do you think you saw in the first couple years that were frightening to you?

Krystal 51:46
Frightening ones, the ones I really burned into my memory. Do you mean?

Unknown Speaker 51:49
Yeah. Good question. Hold on.

Krystal 51:55
I'd say at least a good handful, maybe 123? I'd say about four or five. Other really scary scary ones. How much ones where I'm narrowly avoided hospitals? How much

Scott Benner 52:11
of them? How many of those do you think were made more frightening by your age?

Krystal 52:20
By my age, or his age,

Scott Benner 52:21
yours, I mean, his is obvious. But like, I don't know that you you sound like you might have had a tough life. Like I'm I'm guessing. So like, maybe you're a little more grown up than then some people are when they're 21, and 22 years old, but my son is 22 If I put him in charge of a hamster, I'm not sure it would be alive. So um, you know, you're you're 2122 years old with an eight month old, a one year old who has diabetes, working just with a meter and shots? Like, are you like some kind of, like, super mature person? Are you freaking out?

Krystal 52:54
Oh, I mean, I was freaking out. But I was ready to have a child and whether they were healthy or disabled or whatever. So I was ready for whatever came my way. And I just kind of took it in stride did what I had to do, did it all again the next day, and manage it as best as I could. Thank you. Were we gonna say? I

Scott Benner 53:18
said, that's wonderful. Why do you doubt yourself? You're so confident otherwise?

Krystal 53:23
I don't really doubt myself. To be honest. It's No, I don't really doubt myself that his diabetes, it's just it's just hard to like, you know, I try as much as I can to get his sugar's under control. And like, I just don't see results. And it's frustrating. It's frustrating, especially when I'm looking at Dexcom. And it's a frickin roller coaster ride. It's like, Man, I'm giving it my all and it's just like, doing what it wants. You know,

Scott Benner 53:48
I understand I use the wrong word. I said, doubt. I meant before, like, you felt like you were punishing yourself a little bit like,

Krystal 53:56
Well, I mean, you know, mom guilt. Yeah,

Scott Benner 53:58
I guess so. Right? That thing is very, very real. Yeah. You can't get away from it. I don't know what happens. The minute the baby comes out, you just lose your mind.

Krystal 54:09
Nothing I can do is ever good enough.

Scott Benner 54:12
It never goes away, apparently. So good luck. Oh, great. My children are like, you know, pretty grown. At this point. I still look at my wife. I'm like, What are you beating yourself up about right now? Like?

Krystal 54:24
I hope one day I'll be able to let it go. Because I know. Like I know, logically speaking that. It's normal that a 21 year old would miss a diagnosis of a child. Like the day that I brought him to the hospital. I didn't even notice anything was wrong with him. I just thought he Okay. Hold on. Let me explain my story a little better. So the day that he was brought to the hospital, I was out at breakfast with my friends. And he was really like, lethargic and I this will forever be burned into my brain and it's a huge trauma for me. We were at the table and the waitress brought us water to drink. And he took my huge, amazing glass and he chugged it all. And he was eight months old. You know, they're not supposed to drink that much water. And I was like, Oh, my God, that's really weird. But it was like 40 something degrees Celsius. And I figured, you know, we're just in the middle of a heatwave. He just really hot. And he was lethargic. And he wasn't really like getting up at the table like he normally was. And I just kind of attributed to like a heatwave. He's just tired. Maybe he's cranky. They didn't sleep well, the night before. He was nursing all night long that night. And my friend picked him up because he was crying. After he drank all the water. And she was like, something's wrong with him. I'm like, really, really sure. Like, you know, and so she just kind of consult him. And later on, I went about my day as normal. And then I realized later on in the day, after my friend had told me that something was wrong. And after witnessing an eight month old drinking an entire mason jar of water. Later on, I had brought him home, and I realized that he was breathing as if he was running a marathon. Yeah. And his whole chest was sucking in. And I was like, Oh, my God, something really is wrong here. But it took me like the whole day, to really realize that something was wrong with my friggin baby, like my own baby, you know what I mean? And that's the one thing that I really can't forgive myself about. Especially sometimes I will design the diabetes,

Scott Benner 56:32
Crystal art and look like a zombie for a number of days before we figured it out. Like she just turned around with a she was only two. And she wandered around. Like she weighed 17 pounds. She was two years old, and she had a dead like a death stare just a like 1000 yards there. You couldn't interact with her really? She couldn't stand up for too long. And it still took days to figure out like, what was that girl? I know how you feel? I'm sorry?

Krystal 56:59
No, no, it's okay. It's, I mean, it is what it is. Right? It's already happened. There's no point in stressing over. But when I think about it, it really like tears me apart. Thinking about the fact that someone else noticed before his own mother did. And then I went about my day, just like kind of keeping an eye on him. And like not really realizing there was something actually seriously wrong until I went to the hospital. And then we were in the hospital for all of maybe 20 minutes. And then the way it works at my hospital is that you have to go in and they triage you. And then you go to the waiting room when they're going to call you to see the doctor. And they have one specific room that you're supposed to go back into if your condition worsens or changes, whatever. So we had been triaged, and then we were sent to the waiting room. And I went back in because he just kind of like, collapsed in my arms. And he was I want to say conscious, because he wasn't really conscious, but his eyes are open. And I was like, something's really wrong, my baby like you guys got to help me. And then so they did a quick urine test. I think we're blood tests. And they told me that he has type one diabetes, and after that they were trying to get him like, set up with insulin drips, and sugar drips and whatever. And she was just like, screaming and crying in my arms. And then he passed out. And then they told me that they would let me know they ever woke up. And I was like, wow, that's cool. Yeah, I feel so guilty.

Scott Benner 58:25
I know. But I'm gonna say something completely obvious to you. That it's not obviously, it's easier said than done. But you're gonna have to get past that, you know, you don't want to keep beating yourself up about that. Because look where you are now, you did a good, you're doing a good job bringing as a one seat down, you're aware of why you're having the issues that you're having. So it's not like you're just lost, you know what's going on. And you know how to fix it. And you and you have a pathway to maybe figuring it out with a pump, it sounds like, and he's, and he's gonna get older and it's going to be easier for him to get, it's gonna be easier for you to say, look, you know, I listen, I don't care. Just eat this, you know. And he'll listen. And I mean, you've been through something that's so terrible and so difficult. The rest of it might end up seeming easy. You might be one of those people just laughs like, oh, yeah, this isn't hardly anything compared to when he was two years old or three years.

Krystal 59:18
Yeah, that's pretty much where I'm at. Yeah.

Scott Benner 59:20
Wow. All right, Crystal. I'm going to ask you one more question before I let you go. Where I cannot figure out your accent completely. See, you're obviously French Canadian. But at the end of your words, you sound Spanish for a second.

Unknown Speaker 59:33
Spanish? No, but no, but you're not right.

Krystal 59:37
I'm just French Canadian. Yeah, I'm just, I'm an Anglophone and a French say it again. I'm an Anglophone and a French province. I'm English speaking. But I guess I just pick up some of their mannerisms. Because I've been here my entire life. Yeah,

Scott Benner 59:49
there's just a little at the end of your word. Sometimes. I'm like, I know she's not but it sounds like a little. So I was trying to figure out what the rest of it was. You're born where you live. Yep, yeah. Born and raised. Are you Cool. That's excellent. I love people's accents. I think they're, they're super. Yeah, I think I find them incredibly interesting. My must seem very boyish to you, but

Krystal 1:00:09
you just sound American.

Scott Benner 1:00:11
Oh, Oh, perfect. I'll take it. Alright, hold on one second for me. Yeah. Okay, thank you

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