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Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 799 of the Juicebox Podcast.

On today's episode of The Juicebox Podcast, we'll be speaking with Michael Michaels in his early 60s. He's a teacher, a musician, and he has type two diabetes. That's right, today is another in the type two Story series, as I try to have as many conversations as I can with people living with type two diabetes, so that we can understand it more fully. While you're listening, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan, or becoming bold with insulin. If you have type one diabetes, or are the caregiver of someone with type one and are a US resident, I'm asking if you'll please go to T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juice box and fill out the survey. T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juice box join the registry complete the survey whole thing should take you fewer than 10 minutes, you're going to be helping people with type one diabetes moving type one diabetes research forward. And you might even be helping yourself T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox.

This show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries. G voc hypo Penn Find out more at G Vogue glucagon.com forward slash juicebox. today's podcast is also sponsored by the Contour Next One blood glucose meter. Get yourself accurate results. With this easy to carry, easy to use, and beautifully made blood glucose meter contour next one.com forward slash juice box check out the Contour. Next One. There are links in the show notes of your podcast player and links that juicebox podcast.com to G voc Contour. Next One and all of the sponsors. When you click on the links, you're supporting the podcast. Hi, everybody.

Michael 2:14
This is Michael. I'm a type two diabetic since 2006. And I live in Oklahoma.

Scott Benner 2:22

2006. That's a good long time. That's excellent. Not excellent for you. It's excellent for the conversation. Why do you have such a nice microphone, Michael?

Michael 2:33
Oh, well, I'm a musician. Oh, no kidding. Yeah, and a music teacher. And during the pandemic, I did quite a bit of teaching from home. So I put together a really good gear. I actually had a better camera than this. But I know we didn't need a camera. So I didn't set all that up there. I had to have good sound to effectively teach. How's my level?

Scott Benner 2:56
Your listen besides Jenny, you're gonna sound the best anybody's ever sounded on this podcast. That's terrific.

Michael 3:03
I understand. Yeah,

Scott Benner 3:03
I just sent me a new microphone. Oh, good. I did you can really she had a good one. Well, yeah. And then I got her a better one. And then one day, I was like, What am I doing? I just sent her a really good mic. And she sounds terrific now. So

Michael 3:17
people always asked me if I'm a podcaster. Because when I do zoom meetings, I've got all this good gear. Yeah,

Scott Benner 3:25
I actually have a second computer that you can't see. So when I do business stuff, I'm not sitting in front of this microphone talking to people, because that's a good idea. It became obvious to me that people are just the whole time like, what is he wearing headphones, you know? Anyway. So you know, I guess I'd like to really, you know, I'm doing my best. And it's funny, you corresponded with me the other day, and you were almost like, do you really still want to do this, because you haven't had many type twos on, but it is not for lack of trying. Gotcha. And as a matter of fact, I had an interesting conversation, I don't think I should say with the company, which company it was, but I had an interesting conversation the other day with my liaison at one of the companies. And I said, You guys are going to get more to type two in the next couple of years. Right? They said, Yeah, we want to and I said, Well, I want to as well. I'm trying to have more type twos on the podcast. It's very difficult to get them to, to talk about it. And I think and I feel like I understand why but it wasn't an impediment for you. So my first question is, did you have any, any thoughts of like, oh, I don't want to do this or do you not mind people knowing

Michael 4:36
I had none of those thoughts. I actually like talking to people about it, particularly people in the same kind of situation that I was in. So no, I have no reservations whatsoever. I appreciate that. And I think listening to the podcast is one of the reasons why you have so many people on and they're you know they're they're also forthcoming for the most part I'm, and I thought, well, I've got a story. And I've got things that I can share that are not only similar but different. I think there'll be some unique things about my story that you may not have heard before.

Scott Benner 5:12
Okay, well, I'm thrilled about this, I really am, I want so much for people with type two to be able to understand their situation better. I feel like I speak to a lot of people with type two who just this thing is happening to them. And they're on a ride and wherever it leads them is where it's going to lead them. And I don't think that needs to be the case for them. So I guess tell me how old were you when you were diagnosed?

Michael 5:36
Let's see. 2006. Terrible. Listen, how old are you now? I'm 6363. Yeah, so you do the math from

Scott Benner 5:48
let's say 2006 to 16 is 10. And then four more gets you to 20. And then two more gets you to 22. So that's 16 that we take six minus three. That's 41567. And then that's now a five. You were 47.

Michael 6:06
Okay, well, yeah, I was I was pre diabetic for many years, my mother was diabetic her entire adult life, my sister is very severely diabetic. So I knew it was coming. And I still didn't do anything about it. I

Scott Benner 6:19
knew it was coming. Like you saw symptoms and and similarities. Were just you thought this has to happen to me, it's happening to everybody else

Michael 6:26
a little both by you know, I had doctors telling me, you know, I've always been overweight, and the doctors knew my history. And it's like, you know, you're pre diabetic, and you need to change your ways, or it's going to happen to you.

Scott Benner 6:42
Was there anything about their warning that led you to change preemptively or No,

Michael 6:49
not a thing. I, you know, I have had a very busy life and career and I just basically ignored it for a long time until I couldn't ignore it anymore. What happened

Scott Benner 7:02
that made it impossible to ignore?

Michael 7:07
Well, I did doctor a lot, you know, I have a couple of other things that are, you know, major health issues, you know, and they check your blood sugar, and they just kept saying, you know, you're there. And I didn't really feel symptoms, like excessive thirst and, you know, excessive urination for a few years after that. They immediately put me on Metformin, and Glyburide. And a couple other things, you know, so I took pills for a long time. And Metformin, for me has been toxic, which is part of my story. You know, I just pretty much took the pills and ate what I wanted to hardly ever exercised, I worked a ton raised a family all that is just basically something that I had to take pills for. And, you know, we all know now I was so uneducated, it was ridiculous. We all know now that you know, it's not and that's gonna catch up to you. And it did. It clearly did catch up to me.

Scott Benner 8:15
I have a question. Two questions, actually, when they're telling you, you're there. Do they give you context to that and a one C or Yeah, okay. Do you know what it was?

Michael 8:24
I don't remember. I know, I can't remember. I do know the highest my once he has gotten through all this was 8.9. Which, you know, isn't ridiculous. My my sister sometimes is, you know, in the teens. Really? Yeah. Yeah, she's

Scott Benner 8:45
uptight, too. Yes, she, oh, gosh, these I'm not as practiced as these conversations. But do you have to eat yourself to an agency like that? Or is it a severity level inside your body and doesn't matter what happens just some people have higher frequencies?

Michael 9:01
I think, you know, it's a little both with her. She she's, you know, really taking care of herself now, but still struggling. Sometimes her agency is great. Other times, it's really high. She sometimes has blood sugar levels in the five hundreds, you know, and she has infections in her feet that have gotten really bad. So, you know, she's been hospitalized several times for these infections and almost lost one of her feet. And she's not you know, she's so scared to death of it. Now. She's, it's not a matter of her food intake. Okay, something else going on with her and her her diabetes is much more severe than mine is her body's

Scott Benner 9:41
just Yeah. And I want to be clear about when I said food intake, I didn't mean like, it's weird. I didn't mean just like massive over eating. I just meant I meant carbs that your body can't cover like you put in more carbs than your system can handle. Yeah. And but that's something else. Okay, so so back to you. You're there, but you still wait a little bit, but then once they, I'm gonna guess they push the pills on you right? At some point. Oh, yeah, they try to scare you in a doctor's office or do you get one of those conversations? No, no,

Michael 10:14
I have great doctors. They're not scaring me. They're just saying, you know, we need to treat this and this is how we treat it, bam. And I'm doing it. And then, you know, I graduated to injectables. And I did that for a long, long time, until actually a year ago, when I went MDI,

Scott Benner 10:36
okay, so you started with metformin? Yeah, but did it leave you with a feeling of like, Oh, I'm taking the pill now. So I don't have to change anything. Exactly. Okay.

Michael 10:47
Being go. You know, it was just a kind of a thing I did every day, and I ignored it. I hardly ever checked my levels. And I did that for, you know, 10, well, longer than 10 years,

Scott Benner 11:02
10 years, 10 years, you're taking the Metformin, eating what you want? Yes, not really checking your blood sugar, when you say not really checking your blood sugar daily, weekly? How do you do it? Oh,

Michael 11:15
just every once in a while it was you know, sometimes I'd go months without checking it. You know, my brain was like, you're taking the pills. It's okay. They check your agency in the doctor's office. And, you know, we get up to seven, something. I wrote, I wrote it seven to seven, three for a years and years and years. So then it started creeping up a little bit, and I got an endocrinologist. And he got me down to like 6.5. With other medications. That's when I went on trulicity and some other things before we still on Metformin. Before

Scott Benner 11:57
we talked about that. Let me ask one last kind of backward looking question. I'm sure with 16 years of hindsight, taking the pills, I'm okay, I'm taking the pills. Did you believe that? Or did you talk yourself into believing it? Or is that what you? Do you know what I'm saying? Like, or was it just a convenient way to ignore what was happening?

Michael 12:16
Yeah, that it was more that. You know, I was, like I said, working a lot. And I had a high of other health issues that were bothering me too. And it was kind of hit just head in the sand. Yeah. You know about my health in general. That wasn't a priority, or you put it that way. Are you comfortable

Scott Benner 12:35
sharing your other health issues? Or are they not sure? No.

Michael 12:39
I have psoriasis and psoriatic arthritis, which is an autumn immune thing, and I take some pretty heavy medication for that. You know, and some other things, but those are the biggies. Those are the two biggies in my life. Okay.

Scott Benner 12:53
So the idea there is it's cascading right, you pick the what seems like the worst thing at the moment. And you focus on that. You go to doctor's appointments, use up your thought process your cycles on that, and then there's nothing left for the rest of it afterwards. Is that about right?

Michael 13:11
Yes, I think that's a really great way to characterize it.

Scott Benner 13:15
Yeah. I've noticed that in even my own life with myself or hand helping my kids, there's just not enough hours in the day, there's not enough energy, there's not enough time, you still have to work and you start, it's, I don't know, it's like the house is burning down. Just put the water where the biggest fire is, is how it feels sometimes,

Michael 13:36
you know, it's procrastination and taking the easiest path for the moment because you've got everything hitting you, you know, and that that's pretty much the way I live my life.

Scott Benner 13:45
Part of onslaughts if part of what I noticed with Arden, is that even after you, you stop everything, and you think, Okay, I'm going to focus on this problem. And you find what looks like a direction, and you decide, I'm going to handle this. And then you go to the doctor and you leave the doctor, and it doesn't feel like anything happened. And you go it was whole thing was just the waste of time. We're not we're not getting anywhere. You know, the truth is, though, it's persistence. Like you just had to keep hammering away, and you have to have the mind to collate everything or to make lists and draw lines and make yourself see see the connections, you know, because I do think as great as some doctors are, it is still on you a little bit to connect the dots. A lot, maybe.

Michael 14:40
No doubt. Yeah, no doubt about that. Yes. You know, and if you put it off, it's going to be harder and harder. It's just like, any habit that you need to form. If you don't face it, I tell my students face your weaknesses with sword in hand. You know, it's kind of a dramatic statement for saying don't Don't put off, you know, fixing these issues that you have. And I did that for, you know, 16 years, right. Finally, finally, a year ago from now, I got another endocrinologist, the old one left the country. So I kind of just was going with my GP, who was keeping my medications up, and, you know, trying a few things here and there. But finally, I, I, I was having a lot of problems with my professional life related to the side effects. And that's what, you know, that's what gave me the wherewithal to really go after it,

Scott Benner 15:42
meaning, the side effects like gastric issues and trying to do your job at the same time or one,

Michael 15:48
that's one of them. You know, I was thirsty constantly. I had to pee all the time, it was really an inconvenience. But the thing that really put me over the top is, I'm a trumpet player, professional trumpet player. That's how I make my living. I teach trumpet at the university level, and I play in orchestras and all sorts of things. And suddenly, you know, here I am 60 years old, and my endurance on the instrument, which is a factor, you know, you have to have great endurance to be a working trumpet player. It just, it just went in the crapper. I couldn't, I would play great for 10 or 15 minutes, and then crash, everything would crash. And this went on for a long time. And I was thinking I'm gonna have to quit, you know, which of course I can't do yet. And I started researching why this would be a talk to a lot of people. And I started checking on the side effects of metformin. And I didn't really find anything at first. And then I discovered a, an academic paper on Metformin, and lactic acid buildup. Oh, and I discovered that Metformin causes you to hold on to lactic acid longer in some people longer than normal. And you know, the muscles here are the muscle in my face, you know, next to my lips, would be the muscles that would break down. And I thought, Gosh, I wonder if that's a Metformin doing this because nothing else made sense. So I went to my endocrinologist and I said, first thing, I have to get off Metformin, I told her why she was all for it. Up to this point, I should say that I had a misconception about insulin. In my mind, somehow, I don't know how going on insulin, to me was just the beginning of the end, I thought that I should be delaying going on insulin as long as possible. I just didn't know. I don't know where I got that thought. But I thought that insulin was like the last resort, which of course, is, you know, a terrible way to think. So, you know, I was doing all these other drugs in Bacana. You know, Metformin, and trulicity. So, I just, I found a Facebook group, it was a, you know, maybe the Dexcom group or the Omni pod group, and then I found your group. And she got me off Metformin, and on on MDI, and she did it right away. And within three or four days, my endurance started to come back. I mean, it didn't take long at all, it suddenly, these issues that I have not been able to get through a concert or even a practice session. were gone. It wasn't it wasn't gradual at all. It's just almost instant. So she got me on MDI, and I read, think like a pancreas. And I started listening to your podcast, I listened to all the, the basic ones, and, you know, not to be too sappy about this, but I think that saved my life. That saved my career without question that saved my career. Because it taught me that using insulin in the right way was a very healthy way to deal with your diabetes. I also changed my diet of course, you know, I didn't just, you know, go on insulin say it's good. Well,

Scott Benner 19:34
were you able to start exercising?

Michael 19:37
I still haven't really done that. Okay. You know, I still have all those jobs. My kids are grown and out of that house, but yeah, the swerea Attic arthritis is a is a factor there. I have also really big time back issues. So I can't really walk very far I don't have the ability to swim anywhere or do Anything like that regularly? So, you know, I have terrible discipline when it comes to exercising. So unfortunately, I have not been able to throw that into the pod maybe, I don't know, maybe you want to retire, but I won't make any promises there.

Scott Benner 20:12
You know, I find myself right now recovering from COVID, which turned into bronchitis. And so I'm currently on a, on a steroid pack. Yes, it's I find myself twice this year on a steroid pack. The first time was in the summer when I got hit by something and had like this very bizarre allergic reaction. Anyway, the point is, is I've now used the steroid pack twice in like a six or eight month, eight month span. And as soon as I start taking it, I start losing weight. My back stops hurting. My digestion gets easier. And I was standing in the shower today getting ready to talk to you and I thought, I'm going to call a rheumatologist. And I'm going to set an appointment and just tell them that story and see what happens. Because I'm, there's it's clear that some sort of inflammation is slowing me down. Yes, I mean, on a normal day, I couldn't sit here and twist in this chair like this. My back would be stiff and it would hurt. And I mean, painful. And if I overstretched it, it would hurt for days after that. Yeah, and steroid pills three days and mom, okay.

Michael 21:22
Prednisone is a magical drug. I thought it was working like that, though. They thought it was going to cure everything. And then they discovered the long term side effects. I had COVID for eight weeks, I had long COVID. I'm just now getting my taste back. The first time I had it, it was like a cold for two days. But the second one really killed me. And I had terrible fatigue every day, for two months. Fortunately, I'm on sabbatical. So I was able to handle it schedule wise. But I had some dose packs in there, too. There are terrible lung issues. You know,

Scott Benner 22:03
I had six, seven days in the middle where my fevers just went, I was just hot and cold, hot and cold, constantly couldn't sleep. But I was incredibly tired. I'd sat I'd sit up to five in the morning, just like a wake like I was like I was on something, you know, that I'd fall asleep at six wake up at nine, there are five or six episodes of this podcast, where I don't know how I did them. And I'm never gonna tell you which ones are which. But I would get done sometimes and be like, Well, that was it for me today. Like focusing and having a conversation for an hour, then I was done.

Michael 22:34
And you didn't have any choice is like, Okay, I have to lie down now no matter what's on your schedule. Yeah, it happened to me.

Scott Benner 22:41
Right? How were your blood sugar's during the illness?

Michael 22:45
Well, they're kind of up and down because of the steroids. You know, I was trying to compensate for them, but didn't have a lot of experience with that plus them getting steroid injections into my back at the same time. And so I think I handled it okay. But, you know, my agency went up a little bit during that time, you know, two points. Well, two tenths of a point, I should say. So I think I weathered it pretty well, actually.

Scott Benner 23:13
Great. So you said you went from Metformin to injectables? And I want to clarify that for people who might not understand because they might have thought you went right to insulin, but you didn't you went to some of those medications. You said trulicity. Were there other things in there?

Michael 23:27
Oh, I was on trulicity and other pills for a long time, until a year ago is when I went MDI, okay, but trulicity or something like it, you know, I tried ozempic for a little while. And I was doing Invokana, Metformin. Glyburide. Want maybe one other in there. And, you know, in November of last year, is when I went to her and said, I want to get off that so that I can save my career.

Scott Benner 24:04
Yeah. Did any of those medications impact your weight?

Michael 24:09
Yes, actually. Trulicity helped me keep my weight down. For me, that's still really high. But I was very consistent while I was on trulicity. And since I dropped her licitly and went on insulin, I've gained 30 pounds. Okay, which is the issue I need to address now. I didn't know at the time that insulin can cause you to gain weight and that it's very common to gain weight on insulin. Everything else got so much better. I was just giddy. You know, my plan came back to normal and

Scott Benner 24:43
felt like you could eat again the way you wanted to and all that.

Michael 24:47
I actually changed and, you know, went low carb. And that was a discovery period. You know, I discovered that I have to eat some carbs. I can't go no carb

Scott Benner 25:00
making crazy after a while. Oh, gosh.

Michael 25:03
It's amazing what that does to you.

Scott Benner 25:05
So long time ago before people talked about it like this. I read a book. And the doctor was like, you know, if you go low carb it was this the diet kind of like a diet fad. I forget what it was. And my wife and I did it when we were really young. We were like, in our 20s. And I lost like, a bunch of weight. She did too. And, but there was this day, we sat down at dinner, and I was like, I can't eat another fun chicken wink. Like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm really I can't, I can't, like I just can't like and the grease that would go not even like not like we were cooking pounds up hamburger and drinking or anything but like, just something with like grease in it. Like every day. You're like, I can't I just can't do this anymore. But I can't believe I can't think of what that diet fad was called back then. Yeah, Atkins. Atkins. That's exactly right. Yeah. But yeah, I know, I know what you mean, like, every once in a while, you're just like, Can I have a piece of bread please? Like, I just want to, I want the texture my mouth to change, you know?

Michael 26:06
Well, that's that's one point. But for me, it was, you know, I would eat to get through to my island. Next meal without shakes or weakness. Oh, and if I didn't have any carbs at all, I couldn't do that. I would be really out of sorts, mentally and physically. So I finally discovered I had to have a little bit for each meal. Do you

Scott Benner 26:30
think some of those injectables, were lowering your blood sugar too far without the carbs?

Michael 26:35
No, I wasn't having lows. Okay. Just, it feels the same. But for some reason, I need that in my diet. It's interesting, okay, I, you know, kind of cut way back on them. You know, I used to, you know, not concern myself with any carbs at all. And so I became more aware of how damaging that is. But I, I really, am careful to not overdo it.

Scott Benner 27:03
Okay, I do want to highlight one thing you said and talk about it for a second, he said, I didn't realize that the insulin caused me to gain weight, I always think it's important to tell people that insulin doesn't make you gain weight. Insulin helps you store the calories you eat. And it's just important for them to have that context. So if you're taking in a surplus of calories, your body's gonna store it as fat. And the Insulin helps the storage process, you may not be gaining weight, while your blood sugars are super high. But you're just you're killing yourself in a different way. And your body's not able to store some of those calories the same way. So you can like you know, when you hear people's diagnosis stories with type one, and a lot of them will say I was eating everything I wanted and losing weight. And I thought I finally did it. You know what I mean? I finally figured out the code. It doesn't work that way. But then people get it into their heads. Well, I can't take insulin, because insulin will make me gain weight. And so I'm here to tell you insulin doesn't make you gain weight. Insulin stores the food that you take in those calories. That is where that comes from.

Michael 28:07
Well, I knew that and, you know, my agency has gone up a little bit and my weight has gone up a lot. And, you know, I think I don't have as much I figured out how to eat less carbs. Right. But I'm a lot hungrier and I think not being on trulicity as part of that I might go back on it. I saw my endocrinologist yesterday. And she wants me to put put me on a new drug that name I'm blanking on right now. It's brand new, it's only been out a couple of months. It's used for diabetics, and also, you know, weight control.

Scott Benner 28:46
You know, there's a lot of consternation right now in the media, because when I forget one of the drugs, it's a type two drug injectable that also helps with weight, I must say got popular amongst influencers online. Yeah, now there's a shortage of it. And there's a section of people are very upset, like, you know, they're using diabetes, drugs and everything. But what people might not know, is companies are marketing those drugs that way. And then they develop them while they were developed them, developing them for type two. And along the way, they realized this is an effective weight loss thing to they're not trying to hide that it isn't people. It's not like people going like, ooh, could I figure it out? I mean, it's all in the company. They they marked it for two different things. If they're running out of it, they need to make more of it not right. You know what I mean? Like you can't blame the guy on tick tock, you figured out he could lose 100 pounds on trulicity euros and pack or something like that. So and we'll

Michael 29:44
Trulicity is made by Lilly, and they that's exactly what happened with them. So this new drug is also made by Lilly, and it's supposed to be improved trulicity Okay, so basically they, they refined it. And it's supposed to be much more effective in both areas weight loss and in blood sugar control. And it's only been out like two months. So I think maybe this new drug is in part a response to what you just said. Yeah.

Scott Benner 30:21
Well, I hope it will. I hope you get it. And I hope it works for you. Yeah, I hope to Yeah. I mean, it's, listen, like, well, we can sit here, you know, there's a whole different way to have this conversation, right? You could be on a different podcast, they might be like, you know, get out there and work out. I don't care if your back hurts, blah, blah. And listen, they might be right. I always think those people don't take into account. You know, when you you know, when you hear somebody say, it's a famous personal say, like, just work out. It's not that hard. And I think, yeah, sure. You have $1.9 million in your bank account. You get up in the morning, and you go, here's what I'm gonna do today, I'm gonna have a breakfast, I'll sit with the kids for a bit. I'll go for a walk with the dog. I'll work out. I'll go make my podcast for two hours. And then like, yeah, if we all had lives like that, then I can see turning to everybody go on, you're lazy, go work out like you've got all this free time, your life and my life, to be honest, but yours more specifically? I don't imagine you find yourself standing around a lack of oh, I don't know what to do next. Yeah, right. So you can tell people, and I don't think it's wrong, get exercise, move around. You have to It's incredibly important. But I don't think that means that for the people who can accomplish that for either reasons of, you know, deteriorating health, time, money, whatever it is, that doesn't make those people right off. If injecting something in their ass once in a while, he's gonna make him lose 50 pounds, like, you know, like, alright, it's not the perfect way to do it. And it might not be the way that some people want. But everybody deserves to have the best, healthiest, easiest life possible. And I say do what works. You know,

Michael 32:02
fortunately, that's what my Endo, that's her approach. Right? Now. She's she's not lecturing me about less calorie intake. Although she did want me to do bariatric surgery, that's a whole nother issue. She was really pushing that on me. And, you know, I really looked into it. And it just decided it wasn't going to be for me. I mean, I was pretty positive. I couldn't even do what's required to qualify for the surgery. You know, there's a whole laundry list of things that you've got to prove to them that you can do in terms of diet and exercise, right? that I thought would be unrealistic for me plus, I, you know, you just hear all the horror stories. My daughter is has a master's degree in nutrition. And she was adamant that I not do it. So other than that, and you know, she accepted my decision, she did not press, and she doesn't press on. The other thing is either she just helps me deal with things. I mean, after a month of listening to your podcast and reading, think like a pancreas. I went to her and said, I want to be on in CGM, an insulin pump and she did it immediately. That's great. I mean, I got on Omni pod five weeks after I started in MDI. So you know, it takes an endocrinologist support to make that happen. Sure

Scott Benner 33:25
to us. Yeah, especially right now. CGM. For example, if you're type two, you could really benefit from a CGM. I don't think it's available to you through insurance unless you're using insulin. I think that's how it's written right now.

Michael 33:44
And I got the CGM first,

Scott Benner 33:46
did you really? That's great. Yeah,

Michael 33:48
I got the CGM when I went on an MDI when I started in,

Scott Benner 33:52
but you're on insulin? Yes, yeah.

Michael 33:55
Oh, that's right. Yeah.

Scott Benner 33:57
To get a CGI at the way it's written. Now, I know that. Yeah, I don't think it should be that way. I believe that. I think if someone would have put a CGM on you, 10 years ago, yes, it would have made you think, oh, hell, this is not going nearly as well as I thought it was, I did have to do something else.

Michael 34:16
Without a doubt, having that information in your face on a daily or hourly basis would have changed things much earlier for me. And if I just simply had the information that insulin works better, and is not the beginning of the end, if I just known that. I think I probably you know, could have gotten to this point five or six years earlier.

Scott Benner 34:41
Yeah. It's such a shame when you were talking about earlier because by thinking that, Oh, insulin, that's the last step before I die, because that's what you were thinking, right? Yes. So, you know, so you're trying to stave this off? Yes. Meanwhile, had you started it the last decade of your life might have been In a better I guess is the word you know

Michael 35:04
yeah I think probably overall I would have been much healthier and much more aware I I just pretty much you know put it on the bottom shelf and didn't really think about it and took the pills religiously you know I did doctor you know, I got my a one C checked every three months and it stayed fairly in the range until it didn't.

Scott Benner 35:33
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If you could put yourself in front of a bunch of people who are in your situation. Why do you think a couple of questions? You're here doing this so you don't have whatever issue it is that I kind of brought up at the beginning. But when you look online, there's this vibrant community around type one diabetes. Yeah. And you would think you would think the numbers were mixed. You would think that there were hundreds of millions of people with type one diabetes, and a million and a half people with type two diabetes based on the on the way their voices are amplified. But instead it's completely flip flopped, right? There's so many people who have type two, it's not a big community people I've seen companies and organizations try to start type two stuff. It they never take off, communities don't take off. I have type two people on and then get a couple of notes inevitably stop having type twos on. And I'm like, this is a podcast for type ones that I'm like, this is a podcast, people have diabetes. And it's not a contest. Yeah. And if you you know, people are gonna hear your story. And previous I have been able to get some people with type two to come on all of their stories. I have to be honest with you, I don't know them up front when you come on. And but now you're the third person that told me I have type two diabetes, I found your type one diabetes podcast. And I'm better off now. I did not expect that. I'm happy about it. But now how do you like how do I get this information into the world so that other people in your situation list that and go okay, so insulins not death or I'm not failing if I do this? Or if I can't lose 100 pounds magically on my own first. Do you have thoughts about how to get through to people on that?

Michael 39:33
Well, first of all, I would say that most of us that are on some kind of pills or even injectables, its head in the sand. We're not dealing with it like type one people are when it's life and death. You know, I feel like a second class citizen in these forums. And when I listen to the podcast because type one is so much more serious. I feel so the pain I feel For these parents who are up all night and scared to death, their child is going to die in the night. And having to deal with that seems just so much more significant than what I've had to deal with. And I think a lot of type twos, you know, they're just, it's, they say it's a slow death, but you know, there, it's not in their face. So it's really easy to put it on, like I say, on the bottom shelf, or put your head in the sand. And, you know, I wouldn't have read that book, there's no way I would not have found your podcast, I had to go after it, I finally had enough and just decided I needed to figure this out. And I, you know, like everything else, I did some research. And that, that's what led me to it. But I don't think a lot of type twos, you know, who are not feeling great symptoms, and they're, you know, I was that way for over 10 years. I just don't think it's on their plate, or right in front of them on a regular basis. It

Scott Benner 41:04
really is, I guess it really is what I've been thinking forever, which is just that if it's not going to kill you today, then it doesn't put it at the top of your list. And then it It eats at you so slowly. And then there's this moment where you fall off a cliff. And it's too late by that. And so so when it's when you have time to handle when there's when it's the time to take care of it, you don't feel the push to take care of it. By the time you feel the push. It's probably over.

Michael 41:32
I don't think it's ever too late. No, no, tell me. Well, I'm a good example of that, you know, my symptoms went away, just, you know, by controlling my sugars that I had totally ignored before. And, you know, I think I'm gonna live a long life. There's no indication otherwise, heart is strong. So I don't think I mean, sure, you can keep your head in the sand until you're on death's door. But at some point, even for me, he's 1516 years after diagnosis at some point, if you can get to the point where hey, I really need to address this, I can't ignore it anymore. Right? Then I think you can not recover, right? You don't recover from it. But

Scott Benner 42:28
the back manage it and your and your body can recover. It just might not be back to when you were 25 but I appreciate you putting more context to that because that is what I meant. I didn't mean like you know, if you wait five years, it's too late. Just jump out a window. I you know, I meant like what happens when your body tips over to the point where there's no return? But yeah, there. If you're listening to this, today's the day you don't I mean that you weren't great wasn't Yeah, your agency needs to be lower and it needs to be stable. You need to be able to eat food without seeing large spikes that lasts forever. I if it's a CGM that helps you, you know, being fastidious with a meter using insulin. You know, I don't know some of these injectables are once weekly. I don't know how much they help people or don't I've never talked to anybody that's, you know, I mean, do they keep your agency to seven but you don't check all week. So you don't know if your blood sugar's 250 or 300. It's like I don't know how it works. You know, that's how it works. Yes. Eisley so so you, so it's giving you it's giving you lower overall numbers, but it's not. Yes. He's not killing a lot of variability. Nope. Okay.

Michael 43:40
Let's still have the spikes. It just takes you back. Yes. Yeah.

Scott Benner 43:45
What was it? What was it like to go from those injectables to insulin? What was your learning curve on? on figuring out how to cover your meals and you're taking basil? I imagine too. Yeah.

Michael 43:57
Yeah. Well, I'm a gadget guy, man. I love gadgets. I love figuring out technology. And so I went all in. You know, I put a ton of effort into learning about how these devices work, and, frankly, your podcast defining diabetes that that series and it was eye opening for me and it, it just made me want to get it to work like you make Arden's work. Right, I was I was inspired to do that. And so that, you know, I wanted the tech and I wanted it fast. And fortunately, my endocrinologist knew how to get that out of my insurance company. You know, because I didn't like MDI. But I saw the results through MDI, and then, you know, I'm hearing about Omni pod and I'm like, that it's going to work with my lifestyle better than anything else that I've seen, and I can't wait until I can get Omnipod od 500. That's

Scott Benner 45:01
so interesting because that stuff should work with that should work so well for a typo. It really should. Right? Yeah, that's, that's an exciting idea. Are you eligible for that?

Michael 45:14
No, no, it's, it's not indicated for type two. But my endocrinologist told me yesterday, I saw her yesterday that she has one patient whose insurance is paying for it now. So I think there's, I think there's hope for that, pretty soon. For I'm gonna go after, you know, and there's a lot of travails with learning how to use this. You know, even with the podcast, which is just remarkably helpful. And the forums, you know, I'm in a couple of Omni pod forums, you can ask questions there and get great answers. It still took me a long time to figure out how to make it work in my lifestyle. A lot of trial and error.

Scott Benner 45:59
What were the first stumbling blocks,

Michael 46:03
controlling spikes, I still have problems Pre-Bolus thing I forget. It's just, you know, so commonplace now. I think, for me to really control spikes better, I need to Pre-Bolus 45 minutes in an hour in advance. And you know, my meal is the last thing on my mind at those times. So often, I'll be cooking the meal. It's like, gosh, I need to Pre-Bolus and I hadn't done it. So then I have to stop what I'm doing. And find my PDM and calculate what I'm going to eat. I don't really do that anymore. I kind of ballpark it. Right? Which is probably why am I a one C went up to two tenths point.

Scott Benner 46:47
Is that because you're using too much insulin or too little?

Michael 46:51
Yeah, well, well, I'm just not nailing it. Like I used to. Variability ago. Yes. And I've had some lows that were scary for me. Yeah, and I never had lows the day in my life. So that was a new experience for me. So you know, it just, it seems to be a moving target. But you know, I just am not giving quite as much brain space to it as I did in the beginning. No, I'm not really counting carbs. I'm, like you I'm looking at a meal and saying, Okay, that's 35 or that's 40. Or that's 45. I hardly ever think it's 50. But you know, I just sometimes I have to Bolus and then two hours later Bolus again, because I missed it.

Scott Benner 47:44
I would also wondering if you're doing a lot of I mean, you still lower carb. Right. But But you've had you're eating carbs. Do you? Are you seeing protein and fat rises? Do you think?

Michael 47:53
Yes. Without question. You know, so earlier on, I was doing extended Bolus isn't, you know, now, I don't do that as much or if, if at all, and I should, but you know, I'm staying in range. You know, my, my clarity says, I'm 94% in range. Well, the range is too wide. You know, and I think if my range on my CGM or narrower and I don't think I've haven't figured out how to change it, and she said, I couldn't change the range, because I think it's 70 to 180.

Scott Benner 48:29
In the clarity report, yeah, you can change that. Okay. Yeah. I mean, off the top my head, I'm not sure where but my my clarity reports 70 to 140. For RT

Michael 48:40
see that? I think that would be much better for me. Yeah. Because it'll spike up to, you know, 161 70, sometimes one ad, because I didn't Pre-Bolus And I know that's why it's doing that. Or I didn't extend the bowls, because I'm eating a lot of protein, which I usually do. I you know, I'm a barbecue guy. I do a lot of cooking. I love to cook, you know, so I'm just not giving it quite as much thought. I mean, it might even see yesterday was six. It was it for that it was 5.80. Good for you. Yeah, I went from 8.9 to 5.8 in three months. Wow. That's excellent. So you know, I think I'm doing really well. And so I can kind of put it back aside a little bit. And I realized yesterday that No, I can't do that. I really need to stay more on top of it and use the tools that I have more effective, right?

Scott Benner 49:34
And it's not the numbers. I mean, the numbers help you they guide you through it. But you're not just trying to not be 160 for three hours. That's not the point. The point is it's health. It's the thing, it's the thing you can't track until you don't you mean like it's either feel okay, or you don't and the oddity of course, is that once you don't feel okay for a while that feels okay. And that's that's part To the slippery slope, right? The Norm Yeah, it's just it's a little bit of crack Michael, just a little bit. Then two years later, you're laying on the sidewalk folded in half. And you know, you know, and that really is that it's what happens. It says, it's a slow water torture, you don't notice it at first it's drip, drip, drip, and then suddenly, you're a one C seven, then it's eight, then you're tired, then the muscles in your mouth don't want to work. And then you know, and you just like, and you can only compare back over a week or two in your mind. That's why pulling up that report is helpful. And what you're saying is if the report said to me, Hey, I'm not in range, as much as I want to be that would fire you to do the things you know, you need to do.

Michael 50:43
Yeah, I came in, after I got the pump on my next appointment, which was three months later. And, you know, my agency had plummeted. And my clarity said, all that time, I was like, 95 96% range. And I was man, I was the king of the hill, or mountain, I should say, you know, I felt so good about myself and how well I had done. But I think that's a little bit false.

Scott Benner 51:10
Well, nothing wrong with it, but then know what more, right?

Michael 51:14
Yeah, like, you want to be more accurate, you know. And so I think if I can figure out a way to change it to 140, you know, I'm going to be maybe 80% in range, you know, and she, she told me that, you know, my number is ridiculously high compared to her other patients. You know, so again, you know, that's an ego boost, and you feel like you're you're really kicking ass, but I think I could kick more ass if I if it was just in front of me all the time. Oh, I'm high. I'm 160. And that's high, I agree with you. I can do that mental calculation that I don't write on the screen telling me that that's high. And reminding me of it would be better for my health.

Scott Benner 51:57
What you're describing is no different than 16 years ago, where you said, I took the pill, so I'm good, right? No one wants to listen, like no one wants to do this. You know what I mean? Like no one, there's no one who's sitting around going, I'm super excited to take care of my diabetes today. Right? It's a it's a, it's a situation you find yourself in, you have to, you have to read level your brain and, and read, I don't know rejigger your expectations for what life is because if you keep having the expectation that I'm Superman, nothing's ever gonna happen to me. And then this stuff comes on your life? Well, you might get to be Superman for a much shorter time than you were hoping to be, you know, so why not? Why not? Me? Why not bet on yourself and give yourself longevity. And like, I mean, imagine that, you know, maybe one day, you'll get to stop playing the trumpet for money, but still get to play it for pleasure. You know, imagine those sorts of things being the truth for you. I just think it's impossible for us at any age, to imagine the future. And you have to try hard to do that. I've been talking a lot lately about watching my mother get older. And I just heard myself on an episode I put up yesterday, but that I recorded six months ago, where I told the person on the episode, I'm 50. But now I'm 51. And, and my mom is 80. And I am now believing that I'm in the last 15 good usable years of my life. And she says that 65 And I was like, I don't think I'm going to die at 65. I don't think that I'm going to be infirmed. But I see my mom and ad and that this is not a party. And then I start looking backwards at her through her 70s That wasn't a party either. So these are my 15 years to do something amazing. And then I'm going to decline. And hopefully it's a slow decline through my 60s and my 70s. But the person I am in my head today. And the things I want to do. I don't imagine a 68 year old me is going to be able to accomplish right and and if you don't take the time to stop and think of it that way and not be burdened by it. I'm not upset by the idea. I'm actually excited by the idea. Like for the first time in my life. I can I have enough context to realize that this time is not infinite. You know, you know, I was 20 I thought it was infinite. I was 30 I thought it was it. I remember being in my 30s and thinking I'll raise these kids. And then that's when Yeah, but what I didn't know was that and that's when COVID was gonna come and my knee was gonna need a surgery and like, I didn't have those expectations when I was 30. So you will apply this idea to diabetes. I mean, live now. Yeah, you know, live as best as you can now, and that's gonna give you more later. I yeah, I think you know,

Michael 54:55
my mom died at 68 and you know, the last 10 years of her life she was me miserable. And I'm just like her. I mean, I look like her. She was overweight, I'm overweight, my sister's overweight. I mean, it's it's a, you know, a jeans thing too. And, you know, even that wasn't enough for me to change anything. You know, I was motivated by career and family and hobbies, things that I really enjoyed doing,

Scott Benner 55:24
that you can control and that you are good at controlling to. Yes, right. Whereas the weight and the exercise all feels Yeah, I know, subconsciously, it feels like this is definitely gonna happen to me. There's nothing I can do about it. You didn't grow up? In a, I'm imagining you didn't grow up in a household where you had tools for that stuff. No. Right. And had somebody you grew up in a household where people worked hard, and had fun and cooked food, right? Yep. Yeah. And then precisely,

Michael 55:50
yeah, yeah. Yeah. You know, there are times when I really tried hard on the exercise and diet thing when I was in my 40s. And, you know, I had some success, but it took so much time and energy and brain space. And this isn't a cop out. But, you know, so I would yo yo for a while, and finally I just said, Screw it, I'm not going to do this anymore. I'm, you know, I'm gonna make use of this life in this time now, you know, in career and family and other interests, because it was just dogging me constantly. And, you know, to lose the weight that I did, you know, I think the lowest I ever got as an adult was like, I was 325 at this time, so I really needed to do it. And I'm glad I did. I think I got down to 216. Okay, you know, and so creeping up to 270. And staying there for years and years and years was okay, you know, and the diabetes was looming, but you know, I was taking the pills and then taking the injections. So, you know, I didn't make exercise, and diet at all, priority now that I'm on the pump, and, you know, very hyper aware of this, I'm still not exercising, I have great excuses for that, you know, and play those. But, you know, at some point, I'm going to have to figure out how to do some of that.

Scott Benner 57:21
Well, listen, you know, I, I play devil's advocate a lot on the podcast, and I argue both sides, because, you know, I think it helps. And I said earlier, you're not rich, you don't have infinite time in the gym in your house. But no one can tell me that they don't have a half an hour to just walk out the door, walk 15 minutes in one direction and walk 15 minutes back in the other direction. And that would be I think back to when I was a kid and my my aunt and her kids one summer just decided they were going to go for a walk every night. That's all they did. And I'm telling you this in the 70s. Right? Nobody understood nutrition. Trulicity didn't exist. If you had psoriatic arthritis. You know what that meant? Your elbow hurt? Nobody. You don't. I mean, like, nobody was looking at it anything. And so my point is, is that with very little fluff for the things that are available now, my aunt started going for a walk. And I'll be damned that three months later, when summer ended, she looked terrific. You know what I mean? Like she just was a person who worked hard. She owned her own business. She was pretty sedentary. And she made an hour for herself to go for a walk. It changed her life. Yeah, it genuinely did.

Michael 58:34
Well, we have a new puppy. So I have an another excuse to, you know, do a half hour walk. And I have actually started walking with the puppy for, you know, like a week now, just to try to train them up, you know. And my wife did exactly what you said she went on neum. And she lost. She's a small woman, but she lost a lot of weight and has maintained it. But she also retired in that time. She had more time. Yeah, when she started, she was still working. But

Scott Benner 59:04
I have a friend. I'm gonna say her name. I've never said it on here before she's done so much for this podcast that you guys will never know about. But Natalie, and she went on Noom. And to be honest with you, when she did it, I didn't think she like she was not a person I looked at and thought well, you better find a diet plan of some court. Like she looked terrific to me. But my goodness, is she in? Just I don't know what the hell it is. I don't know what they do, man. Terrific shape.

Michael 59:31
Yeah, it's really worked for her. Yeah, that's excellent. You know, so I'm looking at retirement probably in two and a half, three years, hopefully, if things work out well. So, you know, maybe then but, you know, I'm on sabbatical now, which is kind of a mini retirement. I'm still playing the trumpet at night. You know, like always, so that's that's a factor. But I've got more time than ever and I haven't used it to exercise.

Scott Benner 59:58
Well, I hope you do. And And, and I hope you I mean, these other things are obviously working great for you. I just saw it the other day, it was, like more of a Financial Times News story. But I think on the pod, I don't want to say this if I'm wrong, but I think I'm right, they're going to try a basil only, they're going to I think they're going to try to introduce a Basal only pump. And I assume, I assume that might be for, you know, the type two, emerging type two market where people are like, you know, you're, you could use a little help, but you don't need injections. You know, Bolus that meal. I don't, I don't know, I just saw it come across my newsfeed. I think it's great. Like, I know there are people are gonna say like, oh, it's Farman. That device manufacturers trying to push it, just do a sit up and go for a walk, you know, and I don't know, like, I've never had type two diabetes, you've just described something to me? Where do I sit up wasn't going to help you? Right? And you don't deserve for your life to go to hell because of that, you know? And nobody else does. Either. The people listening like you guys have got to just, you got it. I mean, I think the first thing is to get your information together before you go to a doctor. Because otherwise you walk in and you get the first thing that comes to their mind, or the thing they do in the office or whatever you need to go in and say, Hey, I think this is what's happening with me. Do you agree? And if you agree, I think this is what I should be doing about it. Can you help me?

Michael 1:01:26
That's precisely what I did. Right? You just described it to the tee. And, you know, fortunately, I found a young, knowledgeable, dynamic endocrinologist. I was like, Okay, I think you're right. Let's go. Yeah. And we did it fast.

Scott Benner 1:01:43
Good. Yeah. I mean, listen, Metformin has a ton of great uses. It's really a good drug. But you go to a 60 year old doctor, he's gonna give you Metformin. Yeah, you start talking to him about a continuous glucose monitor, and he's gonna stare at you going, I don't know what the hell that is. So you know, you need to, you need to go to somebody who I've had a friend on here, who's a doctor who told me he won't go to a doctor who's over 50. And he's a doctor who's over 50. So

Michael 1:02:13
no, you know, that happened to my sister her her. She was being treated and still is by her GP who's older than I am. And he she finally convinced him to give it give her a CGM. Yeah, but she's still, you know, MDI, you have to understand many, many problems, that your

Scott Benner 1:02:31
goal for yourself might not be the doctor's goal. The doctor might see you in a completely different way. Yes. Listen, you know, when we talk about big ideas, like you know, you know how, you know, when you talk about like government issues, and people get upset, well, they're not thinking about me. Well, they're not. You're right, your your your number, your statistic, and they are statistically trying to keep the country moving in a direction that's good for most people. And that can happen in medicine, too. Like, you might leave there thinking, I'm going to kick this. Michael is going to be the guy, I'm going to pull this together. And that guy might look at you and think, hey, if we can keep that guy alive five more years, that'll be great. Yes. I don't want people thinking about me that way. You know what I mean? Yeah.

Michael 1:03:19
Great characterization. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:03:20
Right. You you, your desire for yourself might not be their goal. Right? And they're not going to tell you like, you can't look the doctor in the face to go, Hey, you're just managing me into the grave. Right? That's what you're doing here. They're not gonna go Oh, yeah, that's exactly what we're doing. They're gonna say no, this is the best idea. They might look at you as a statistic. And you shouldn't treat yourself that way. You know, my Listen, apples and oranges. But my mom three days ago, oh, god, my goals. This is not going to make me cry. It will thank but three days ago, my mom moved into a new place. A year and a half ago, my mom was preparing to move from Pennsylvania to Wisconsin to live near my middle brother. We were getting things in order for that. And she was staying in in Pennsylvania long enough for my younger brother to get married in October. And in the weeks leading up to my brother's wedding. My mom's health deteriorated in a way that was it was frightening. She was clearly dying. To the point where we had had her in the hospital a couple of times. Nobody was giving her answers. And we had to take her to my brother's wedding in a wheelchair. A woman who did not walk us a wheelchair like a week before that. And the day after the wedding, my brother and I might my middle brother and I sat down and I said mom's dying. Like, I don't know what's happening, but she is we're going to stop listening to whatever these doctors are saying I'm going to take over and I put her in a car and I took her to a cardiologist. I literally made them see her. And I said, if this is not cardio, tell me right now she examined her. She said, It looks like heart failure. But I don't think that's what it is. Back to the hospital. It's COVID time we're sitting in the waiting room for hours. My mom's bladder is so full, it's just spilling out of her. She can't but she can't urinate. This has been going on for a while. I go to the woman at the desk and I say you have to go drain my mom's bladder. I made the woman at the desk do it like and she was kind and she did it. But she she was a nurse. She went and did it. And then later when my mom got imaged because that two liters, Michael of urine, they thought, oh my gosh, they were able to see her cancer when they imaged her. But every other time she was in the hospital. They imaged her with the full bladder and couldn't see the tumor. That crazy. So it's crazy. You figure out it's cancer. It's bad. It's a, you know, softball size on one of her ovaries. She's got it in a couple of other places. Doctor comes in looks at her says she's not strong enough for surgery. He sends her to a rehab center, go to the rehab center for two weeks, really kick ass, get yourself in shape. A week before Michael, my mom was fine. Like this had just deteriorate her so much. And then she does the rehab passes everything. And we just don't hear from the doctor. He had no interest in doing the surgery on my mom. So I pin him down on the phone. I'm not going to kill your mom in surgery. And I'm like, is she going to die anyway? And he goes, Yeah, in like a month or two. And I was like, well, then she wants the surgery, give her the surgery. Now I'm not doing that. If my neighbor's son doesn't grow up to be an orthopedic who went to medical school with a girl who grew up to be a guy, no oncologist. I don't know if my mom's alive. All right, take her to the doctor's office doctor says you're gonna be dead in two months. If we don't do this surgery. I'm happy to do it for you. A year later. And a month later, my mom moved to Wisconsin and moved into our new place. Wow, if we would have listened to the first doctor, she would have died about nine months ago. Right? It's just you have to be the one to say I don't accept what you're saying. And you keep saying that until either you get success. Or it's over. But you don't give up while you have the breath to say it. That be your own advocate 100%. Yeah, but it's easy to say that to people be an advocate for yourself. But what does that mean? Like? Like, it's why I tell my mom's story because, yeah, a lot had to go into this to make it happen. You know, my mom doesn't have any money. We had to run this through Medicare. My brother had to teach himself the Medicare system like, like it was we were going to appointments and sitting in Ha I would record this podcast, go to a hospital sit with my mom all afternoon. Right? I'd leave my brother would come and sit with her all night. You know, and it up. It was hard. But now it's fascinating. You should say her. And then by the way, then she had to live in a home for a year to get her cancer treatments. My mom then had to go through chemo. And she, she fought through the whole thing. But while she was there, there were things about our health where we were like, hey, you know, she seems like she's retaining water. And they would make 1000 excuses. In the month that she in the last 50 days, my mom's lived in Wisconsin, she had to stay with my brother to establish residency. My brother focused on her health. The picture I saw her yesterday, she looks incredible. They changed her medications and did things for that the place she was living at was supposed to do and they weren't. You know, I don't know. You just either want to be alive or you don't? You know? Yes. And it's not as easy as just get up in the morning and go to work. And I'm sorry, it's not but it isn't. So yeah. Take care of yourself. That's all. Yeah. I'm sorry. I got it. No,

Michael 1:09:22
no, no, it's important.

Scott Benner 1:09:23
What are we not talking about that you want to talk about?

Michael 1:09:30
Seriously, Scott, I think we covered it really well. I had a few talking points in my head as I prepared for this. And I think I think we've hit them all. You know, the overall message that I want to send to type twos is to just do a little research. There's so many resources out there. You know, I read one book and my life was changed. I discovered one podcast and it isn't even done by a doctor. her, right, I found one podcast was captivated by the subject matter and the way it was delivered. And anybody can do that anybody, anybody can find a book or an online forum, where people have been through it who know a lot, who knows, some people know as much as your doctors do. So I would just encourage those of you that are in a position where you're just now starting to deal with type two, just get your fingers going and find out that information. I delayed it way too long. I'm a smart guy, I read a lot. You know, and I am professional. And in a lot of ways, you know, I have a lot of interests and things that I can do. And if I had just made this one of them earlier on, when I was first diagnosed, you know, I'd probably be in a lot better shape than I am now.

Scott Benner 1:11:00
So I'm glad, glad you found it. And that's a great message, I put up a, you know, you've talked about the Facebook group. So for people who are listening and don't know, I have a private Facebook group that has 30,000 Plus members in it. They're all talking about, you know, day to day stuff, management ideas, they help each other with problems. You know, it's I find it to be the kindest place on Facebook I've ever seen. And it's awesome. I worked hard to get it that way. So I'm proud that it works that way. But I put up a post the other day. I put up a post the other day, because you know, a couple of times a year. I my frustration gets to be too much. Right? So my frustration, right? I my background frustration is constantly that I know what this podcast does. Right? I've heard your story, and almost 1000 others like it. And it's still hard to get the word out. Like it's hard to get people to start to listen. And so my biggest hurdle is to get just try it. Because I think if you try it, you're gonna be okay, you know. So I put up this long post, and I just said to people, like, you know, I wish you would listen to the podcast and share it with people. You know, it'll help the podcast grow. When it grows, it gets bigger, when it gets bigger, someone else's diagnosed, then they find it. And then the post sort of started hard turning into like, well, here's what the podcast has done for me. They're trying to keep the posts alive. So other people see it, which is lovely. And one of the people said, I was an adult type one. And I found this thing, because so many people told me, and then I get there, and the host doesn't have diabetes isn't a doctor, you know what I mean? And she said, she was like, What? What am I doing here? You know? And then she said, it was just kept happening. Just people kept saying, You should do this, watch this. Listen to this. And she finally did. And then she describes her success. And it's wonderful. I don't know why. I don't know why I'm gonna talk about this Michael. Like I really don't like I you know, I mean, we can all guess about it, that helped my daughter and everything. But it all just comes together for whatever when you and I got on before we started recording. He said, Oh, you have a great voice for radio. Even that is dumb luck. And maybe wonder why the podcast works. You know what I mean? So part of it? Definitely. Yeah, you know, so anyway, I know I don't have diabetes, and I don't have type two diabetes. I'm type one diabetes. I've never been to medical school. I barely graduated from high school, Michael, for all being really honest with each other. But I'm good at this. So yes, let it go. Go find the defining diabetes episodes, the Pro Tip series. What else helped you?

Michael 1:13:39
Well, I've read think like Pancras. Yeah, Gary's book was before us before I started on the podcast. And he mentions the podcast in there, and a bunch of people online had mentioned it. So you know, it was multiple mentions, like you. You said a minute ago that pulls you along. They got me listening to it. And I listened to it in the car when I'm commuting.

Scott Benner 1:13:59
Right. That's perfect time. And Jenny, who, by the way, works for the guy who wrote the book that that Michael brought up. That's right. Yeah. But she's on the show once a week where we talk about stuff. So I love her. Yeah, terrific. All right. Well, I can't thank you enough for spending the time talking about this with me. I hope more people with type two. I hope they find ways to help themselves really is what I'm, I guess I'm I'm hopeful for and I am going to go quickly pack a bag and drive down the eastern seaboard to pick my daughter up from college. That's the rest of my day. So right yeah, great for you, but I'm going to be in the car for 12 hours.

Michael 1:14:36
I know but you get to see her. It's exciting. Yeah, we're all

Scott Benner 1:14:39
really excited to get her home

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